Mike
Appearances
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Now, as part of the cleanup effort, the state of Florida and the counties, whatever agencies are in charge of this, they test the content of the sewer water for various diseases. Oh, God. Oh, we're proud to have our brand new variant of new dominant COVID that is spreading like wildfire here.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Well, you and I have been predicting that that COVID thing wasn't a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Yeah. So I'm getting very... Now, Florida, just fun fact about living in a very hot place, our seasons are... people go outside in the winter and stay inside in the summer.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Right. So like COVID transmission is worse in the summer. So the hope, and this is like the positive spin the paper put on it is that, well, we're coming to the cooler season and that's great because you know, when the North gets it and everybody else gets it, it'll, we'll be good. We already went through it. You probably had COVID and sure enough, they've been testing people.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
A lot of people had COVID and didn't know, right. This new version. We have no fat in the economic buffer here to take another hit like that, even if it's not two years, even if it's three months, six months. I mean, I can only speak for myself on this, but... All those COVID business reliefs were so crooked. The companies got a lot.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
A lot of little guys, myself included, are being forced to pay back money they would not have taken had they not been solicited to take it. I would have simply laid people off. And I'm being compelled to pay it back with interest, which is bullshit because the people I kept employed all got very good jobs anyway. Right.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
They left naturally when the when the you know, whatever, because they were young and they got better jobs. And I'm left. Basically, I kept them on and now I'm left paying for them again. So this is where the limits of government intervention are minimal, let's say, right? And try negotiating with the IRS. It's fun.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah, I mean, let's start, I think really this came about with the rise of GitHub in a lot of ways. And Git, right? It doesn't have to be GitHub, but I think GitHub is probably the most known and primary platform. You know, as development teams started using more decentralized source control, right, instead of, does anybody remember Bazaar? Huh?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Okay, cool. And GitHub started building more tools in. At the same time, we had the rise of Rails, which I think... I know I'm going to get some crap. Some people are going to yell at me for this. I actually think the Rails evangelism for things like TTD and deployments with automated tests running is a really big part of it. I mean, Rails really...
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
We could do a whole show, a very controversial show, on how I truly believe that Rails actually influenced a lot of what we would consider modern web development, particularly during the period of the rise of DevOps in the aughts. I mean, MVC, right? You only have ASP MVC because Rails exists. Then Spring Boot. Suspiciously, Rails is similar. Sorry, Java guys, but that's where we are.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Django, right? Do I have to keep going? It felt like there was a sea change where the role of, let's say, senior developer and IT admin were starting to overlap quite a lot, right? Yeah. So what was happening is... Now, I think you'll have a different perspective, Chris.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
But I feel like a lot of companies were trying to trim kind of more experienced IT admins and make their admin department more like the help desk people. So they would pretty heartily embrace this idea that the developers themselves would deploy the applications. And that coupled with the Rails-inspired love of... Remember, it's a big deal, right?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
One of the tenets of this kind of deployment philosophy is you're deploying all the time, where before this, the standard was, oh, man, we're going to be deploying this week. All right, everybody, nobody can take vacation, right? It was really all hands on deck. Yeah, yeah. Where this is, you're deploying... I mean, I know a lot of places want to deploy every couple hours. It's kind of crazy.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah. So, you know, it eventually became that your Docker, Doku stuff could be deployed with just a config and a YAML file.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So a thing that often happens in more complicated applications, though, is you do end up relying on some binary software that just needs to be on the production system. Oh, yeah. I'm not going to say it's not possible, but it's not necessarily what these YAML file-using tools, i.e. Doku, for example, which is still my favorite, are trying to do.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So, I mean, I got to give one to the crap people today. And the Go people, actually. I don't know why I'm promoting SeaweedFS so much. I just love it. I don't get a kickback or anything. I'm just really excited about it. It's a flat file storage solution. Mimics the S3 API. I've been talking about it for three weeks now. You should go check it out. It's written in Go.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Is that what you mean? Let's-a go! Yes, yes, that's what I mean. So, yeah, I mean, you might have to install Go dependencies, right? Or whatever, depending on how you do things.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Before you jump there, one more positive thing, and then I'm going to join you in dunking like Michael Jordan here. All right. Docker was huge for DevOps, and Docker and the whole ecosystem of container orchestration tools that spawned, such as Kubernetes, huge. And we called it, and I'm never going to stop reminding people of that. All right. Go on. Take your dump.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah. I mean I think the hot air got a little too hot too fast. But, you know, so honestly, when you played that clip, the first thing that popped into my mind was Master Yoda. Fear leads to anger. So with that said, Procreate competes with Adobe, who are just the worst. I'm sorry, but you guys are like dicks of the first order.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So isn't this just exactly what happened with like Agile, right?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah. But, you know, Agile, the original Agile manifesto has some very, very strong points. And then the consultants got involved.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I would even, and I know we've gotten over the years some negative feedback on this, but that's okay. Everybody's opinion is welcome. Even Egon's. Although Egon doesn't actually care about this. The testing stuff. Testing became the same thing where it went from, hey, we can automate some testing that will catch regressions. Great.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
You have to test 100% of your code, and it becomes like a religion. And there's like TDD and BDD and Gandalf the Grey DD consultants that you can hire. It's like,
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Anybody who's a consultant, I mean, unless they're a dev calling themselves or an admin calling themselves a consultant, if their whole job is PowerPoints, just, you know, maybe just take your team out to dinner.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Are you sure he wasn't, like, tabbing out to Miniclip or something like that? Maybe when I'm not looking. Maybe he was aware. Yeah. Yeah. So DevOps, it's where are we now? I think we should wrap it up there. Where are we now? How do you feel? You're the system admin. I don't feel like anybody talks about it anymore. Oh, contrary.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
They once. So I feel like the people who talk about it now, even the evil consultants got kind of shellacked. Yeah. By the the we used to call them platform as a service. Remember that pass, which always reminds me of pause the Easter die, right? The Easter egg die thing. But it's like D.O., our beloved former sponsor who I use all the time. wants to get you to use their application framework.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
They have a name for it, but it's basically selling you DevOps that is specific to them. Amazon is more than eager to do the same thing.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
It's cloud. Well, I would even argue Lambda and Microsoft, whatever, Azure Functions, all that stateless, serverless, whatever crap, that's just DevOps taken to its logical conclusion. Don't even worry about a server. Just give us your function. We'll throw it up there and we'll charge you three times as much to run it every time.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I have a confession to make, though. Okay. So my choice is always like D.O., right? Yeah. Like if it's just like a client who comes to me and says, we don't care. Get it done. You know, tell us what to do. I actually, if I'm not given the choice, I prefer Azure to AWS. Which feels like blasphemy, but I just do.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I find it more, I mean, it's very Microsoft, but I think the correlation, maybe it's a correlation issue of a lot of these companies I'm working with are very deeply into the SharePoint Active Directory world. So just being on Azure tends to, one, it's easier to sell to their IT people, right? It's not a scary new vendor.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I don't know when Adobe became super evil, but... I think Flash. Flash. Yeah, I guess so. Really, the Creative Cloud stuff really just chapped my ass a little too much. I can't... I don't know. I reflexively support any competitor of theirs. Yeah. I don't do a ton of design stuff. I contract most of that out now.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And two, there are certain advantages you could get with permissions and stuff like that.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Do you remember the Butterbot in Rick and Morty? Yes. What is my purpose? You serve butter.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah, so well done, Uncle Tim, on the existential crisis product.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So, I mean, but we still, TMB still has a Creative Cloud license because you have to, right? Someone's going to send you a Photoshop or an Illustrator file. And that's just the way, like, it doesn't feel like a product choice. It feels like a tax almost.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
you know it's going to run its ass right off the table.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I don't. This is a, you know, your buddy Marco Arman on the ATP show was actually pretty negative on Apple, up to the point of saying they might need new leadership. Really? Yeah, it's, they've gotten, they've gotten so big that making that number go up and to the right, I think is just a big challenge for them.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah. I was like, oh, maybe. Yeah. We're getting there.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I mean, the MetaQuest is fun, but it's a toy. Yeah. And a really expensive toy. 500 bucks.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
There's this new upstart company over here in Orlando called Skynet. They've got this.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I think the dream would be Rosie the Robot from the Jetsons, right?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Oh, I don't think they've been let off. Oh, you don't think so? I think this is one of those things where we're used to moving fast in our little corner of the world, but the rest of the world moves super slow. Litigious stuff moves slower. I agree with you there. Mike, who wrote in, is right.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
The $5 point whatever billion, that's going to send several lawyers' grandkids to college when the lawsuits all come in.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
If I was CrowdStrike, I'd be looking at insurance against lawsuits and bankruptcy protection or contingency plans because there's –
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
That didn't work. $10 Uber cards, which is insulting enough, but also ended up not working. So I mean if I'm the president of Delta Airlines and I need to not have my huevos rancheros cut off at the next board meeting, I'm going to my chief legal counsel and be like, so I want to bend these guys over a barrel.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
They'd love one more moat. Give them another moat. Why not? So Microsoft's defense, I'm going to make their case. I'm not saying if I agree. I could see a lot of people are saying it's disingenuous. The problem is they were forced to allow this. If Microsoft had their way, no one would have this kind of access.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And would the EU force them? Which I got to be honest, if I'm Satya, that's exactly what I would say because I want to get the EU out of my knickers, right? I want them out of my lingerie drawer.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Right, what you're suggesting is making it easier and less dangerous for the thing they don't want to be done to be done. Why would you ever do that? It would be like me saying, never mind, I'm not even going to suggest it because I don't want to give anybody ideas. I don't like lawyers. I think lawyers are some pretty slippery folks.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah. I can't imagine Microsoft couldn't come up with some... plausible case that CrowdStrike has caused them damages? Because I think the answer is you sue them into oblivion, right? Like basically you go Peter Thiel, Hulk Hogan. This isn't a suit to recover money. This is a suit to end this entity.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
And if I was Microsoft and I need the love of my life salary in a minute, I'd go right back to the EU and say, look what you've wrought. Ah, look what you've done.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah. I mean, seriously, f*** them. What have they got? Nothing. They have their regulations, but they're on a track down the toilet.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I'm sorry, but China, America, even Russia, to a point, you have to listen to. But I don't know. I... Basically, they want to be the local auditor. It's just such a scummy thing. Not in the EU anymore, but Chaucer, you guys are like the partners. You're just going around trying to tax the shit out of everybody and say, oh, you can't do that, you can't do that, but build something of your own.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Where's your Microsoft? Yeah, where's your big tech company at? Right, and I agree we do need some regulation, but it should be done by us. And that regulation should be in the form of breakups.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Xbox, instead of Microsoft just destroying it like they are, they should just spin it out. If Azure was its own company, Office its own company. Office and Outlook together.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Right. Or all Microsoft's consulting services that they do would be one of the biggest consulting companies.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah, I mean, I actually think Windows would probably be one of the weaker ones.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I think you'd stick Windows with the… Office, probably. Office, yeah.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Apple's the harder one to break up. I mean, Vision Pro should be its own company just so they can write that shit off and be done with it. No kidding. Take the loss. Take the tax break. But no, I mean, no offense to our EU listeners, but this is kind of… I'm hyper-sympathetic to the Microsoft case here of, you made us open up our kernel. What did you think was going to happen?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Which, if you knew what you were talking about, you would know is a crazy thing to do.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Oh, Satya's too nice, because he doesn't want to draw a negative, because they're doing a bunch of other crap that they probably should be regulating for.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
But if you really look at it, it's... I don't agree with everything that was written in the op-ed, but was it – who was it? It was a Paul Graham or Peter Thiel. One of them wrote an op-ed. I think it was in the Wall Street Journal. Someone will fact-check me on this and where it was.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
But they made a pretty strong case, and they were all over Twitter with it, about why the EU doesn't have a Microsoft or an Apple.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yes, a couple weeks ago. Now, the case was awfully self-serving because they kept mentioning crypto. But, you know, it does make me wonder because, like, how come Canonical never pulled it off? Right? Canonical's a big company, but they never made it. My beloved SUSE just seems troubled these days. You know, what happened? Business?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah. Anywhere you want to send the people in the meantime. Go to alice.dev and be nice to your local European politician.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
That's really mean. You have to pay us. The more trolly it is, the more you have to pay.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah. I mean, we've been talking about this for years now, right, that ever since the mobile app boom, I feel like the industry has been looking for the next big hotness that would generate outsized returns. You know what I've realized, Mike?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Yeah, no, I absolutely believe that. I mean, I don't know what to say. It seems pretty obvious to me. I mean, have you been grocery shopping recently? Oh, my gosh, yeah. Like, I wish I owned a chicken coop, honestly.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
But it's up on the basics. It's stuff you really – you're a forced buyer in a lot of ways.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Maybe. I mean, I just I would push back a little bit because we've also heard tons of people. Even in our small jobs chat room, which I would encourage people to use because it doesn't cost you anything, right? Whether you're the employer or the prospective employee. And we don't get anything. Do we, Chris? I don't think we get a damn thing from that. No, it's just a matrix chat.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
It's a community thing, yeah. So a lot of people have gotten laid off, right? There's been... I mean, I would say yes, if you if you were making, you know, $80,000 a year or something, it's a lot easier to take the hit than than somebody, you know, like, let's say a bartender or, you know, waitress during COVID. But it's it's still like pain is all relative and it still hurts.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
So I agree with you. There's also, we've talked about this before, like classes of tech people. Like, yeah, fancy pants guy who went to MIT and then got a job at Google and is really upset because now he has to show up at the office and he can't get his massage every day. Well, I agree. I do believe work from home is actually a good idea for a lot of stuff.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
It's hard for me to sympathize with someone who started off making that much money with that kind of perks. Yeah, I don't know. Drunk money is bad. I don't even know what to say. The zero interest rate drunk money was really, really bad. It created this whole situation. And it's coming back, baby.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
It's about to ease up. And that won't fix it. That won't fix it right away. That's exactly where I'm going with this. I'm just going to use my drunk money analogy again. It's going to ease up. So are we going – are we – and I don't mean we. I mean let's be honest, the fancy VCs. Are we going to learn to moderate our trendy chase the new hotness habit?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Well, they have – right. Exactly. You got it exactly right because we went from pensions to 401ks and Roth and regular IRAs. And this is – Mike and Chris teach why you really wanted a guaranteed benefit pension and not a 401k. But hey – Unless you own the company, then you definitely want the 401k or the Roth IRA.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I don't remember which one is the most tax-advantaged one because you can defer your income tax and not pay high – especially if Democrats win – That's an opportune time to tax-free invest in your retirement, which lowers your taxable income that year, and you can stay below that ever-critical $105,000 mark. I don't know what it is.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
I know Trump changed the brackets, but there used to be a mark where $1 over your bracket changes, and you're in a lot of trouble.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
The problem is you can't go below zero, right? That was the wall. That was the corner they put themselves in. They went to zero. Zero is zero. Yeah.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
Which, honestly, is not crazy for us, for small businesses. That's a reasonable thing to do. I mean, I wouldn't go balls out. So, can I fry some alligator bacon? Please do.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
In my local paper here, there was an article, a study, based on a study from a local university about, unfortunately, when we had Hurricane Betty, a lot of the sewers flooded up in Sarasota and other places, which is exactly what it sounds like.
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
And the journey doesn't end here. This is just the beginning. As you continue exploring the world of Linux, remember that you're not alone. The Linux community is vast and welcoming, always eager to share knowledge, lend a helping hand, and push the boundaries of what's possible with this incredible operating system.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
taking measures but nothing has been directed at this school particularly there's three or four schools within like two blocks of each other is why that matters but just like it's hard for me to describe this in polite terms but like ladies driving equinoxes or you know escalades which i live in a fancy area bang for blood as if they're caligula is something i did not think i would see in my lifetime
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Especially blood knowing it's a kid. We all know this is a kid. It's just which kid? So, I don't know. And maybe I've become too much of a softie. I don't know.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Oh, and does Oracle get a percentage of the speeding tickets? Yeah. Just saying.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
In a county over, an 11-year-old was perp walked and arrested because that sheriff also had the same experience. It was some kind of meme or something going around, some coordinated – I don't think it's like a conspiracy, but like something in the – just like in the air, right? Like a coordinated thing. It's a copycat type syndrome perhaps?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Copycat because of what happened in Georgia a couple weeks ago or – yeah, a week and a half ago. And an 11-year-old did a similar thing. He claims to have been joking, right? The sheriff found him of that county, different county that I live in, and perp walked him the whole thing, booking, pat down, in the cage, the whole thing, on tape and put it on social media, which the kid is 11.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I have many thoughts that would get us into political water here. I would lose a number of Republican points. It's too much in my opinion.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
AI Compliance LLC. Yeah, right. Delaware. I'm sorry, what were you saying?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
This is terrible. The kid is stupid. He deserves to be punished. Publicly named. Oh, wow. Public video, parents named, terrible thing. The school in my district that my kids go to, they are now introducing mandatory backpack searches every day. Metal detectors. It reminds me a lot of the TSA or jail. Yeah. This is the last thing and then you can go. But the –
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I mean, I feel like... This is basically creating a moat for the big boys, right?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Right, right. So they'll never become big, right? What will happen is if they have anything interesting, their VCs will farm the Mac.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
It's amazing. One of the richest men in the world likes something that makes it expensive to do things.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I'm not convinced it would slow down OpenAI. Actually, I think OpenAI mostly would benefit from this.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Well, one, I don't even think the people who wrote this law understand open source at all. It's not even something that comes on their radar. One, I think they've definitely bought into the hype. So they really think AI is going to put a bunch of people out of business or out of jobs, I should say.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I really think in our political class, there is this wave that the social media platforms really did decide one of our recent elections. And I find that so hard to actually believe because its underlying premise is that people are that stupid, which I just can't buy. I reject the premise completely.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Because we have all these Facebook groups that are like the local – the parents, the school, whatever. That's like the community, right? The bang for blood of – granted, this kid is wrong and should definitely be punished for making these threats, right? He should absolutely be punished. But the just like Roman Colosseum level of bloodlust here is –
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
But if you believe that premise and you could put out an effectively infinite number of social media memes and posts to push people one way or the other, then yeah, maybe this makes sense to you. And I think that's really what it all comes back to.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Had there been no 2016 election, or at least had it gone the other way, I don't think we'd be seeing this level of, one, tech backlash and certainly AI regulation.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
What is the difference between me seeing on – I mean I'm old. I use Facebook. I know the kids don't use it anymore but whatever. Some crazy thing from Uncle Jimbo or me just like being in an airport bar waiting for my flight and talking to a guy who's somebody else's Uncle Jimbo and tells me something wacky he heard on some weird podcast, right?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I just – I can't believe that your average American or your average European or Asian or whatever, right? Like any country but a public education system of any salt whatsoever – would really fall for the kind of bulls**t that's obvious bulls**t that you see generated by AI.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So wait, we've got academics, spies, generals, and a lawyer.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
from frankly soccer moms, is disturbing as hell to me. And the just willingness to turn school, which is hard for some kids, right? High school wasn't the best experience for me either. Just going to say I was a nerd. I hung out in the computer lab. Into a prison-like environment with security and metal detectors is wild. It's just crazy to me.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
That is the way it looks like the most silverback gorilla marketing tactic possible. I love it.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
You know, I just, okay, sure. That's my new motto. We're going to print up new robes. Let's just say, okay, sure.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So basically we're going to comply with the EU. If we didn't have to do this, we wouldn't do it at all. We would just lock the shit down. But we're going to make it so bad that good luck.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So one, aggressively spy on your kids, folks, because they may be joking. Like I got to say, that poor 11-year-old, again, he did a very bad thing in that other county. He probably was joking, right? Also, he's probably not capable of doing anything. But his life is – I mean this – he better change his name if they don't send him to juvie.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yes, but they have solved the problem. If you define the problem as the CrowdStrike problem. Yes. Right. If you throw CrowdStrike out of the kernel, you have therefore solved that problem. Four score and seven boosts to go.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah, I was having a few issues with RuboCop, specifically in RubyMine. I mean, this is, like, very specific, right? Yeah. I actually did reach out to Jet Brands, and they're kind of awesome in their support. Oh, good. I found most of the problem, but then something else propped up. So I'm checking it out. It seems to be a very, very specific issue.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
based on permissions access between file systems. And this is, so far in my usage of WSL, this has been kind of its Achilles heel when you have to cross the boundaries, which you probably want to, right? Like I'm using the Windows Ruby mind to work in Ruby on the Linux file system. And that's the right way to do it.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So I will say this issue is such a dumb issue that it's very specific to the way RubyMine implements RuboCop suggestions. RuboCop, by the way, is a linter similar to, I don't know, like Flake or something like that in Python, where it tells you, your code is right, but, you know, geez, you should be using this syntax. It's more modern instead of your old-ass way of doing it.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah, like if you open VS Code, I have no problems, which tells you kind of, again, one of the weaknesses of WSL is the tool's got to keep up. No one keeps up better with their own tooling than Microsoft.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I am going to steal that phrase, sir. That is good. Also, I just want to say small talk does have a successor language. You may have heard of it. I want you to be objective about this and see the truth.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
See, the R data people are making so much money. Yeah. They really just, I mean, honestly.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
You know what? I will install GNU Step. Although it's still Objective-C, isn't it? Never mind. I forgot the name of the Smalltalk. Is it Pharaoh? Someone will correct us in the feedback. But there is a Smalltalk thing you can still run. pretty easily on Mac and Linux. I'm sure it runs on Windows too. And I will do a stupid Jar Jar thing in Smalltalk if Smalltalk can win.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah. Just a reminder. Florida is as big as most of the United Kingdom.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Everybody thinks Florida is small because of the way it's usually rendered on U.S. maps. It is not small.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Oh, I mean it's like cancellation, but with actual legal weight behind it now. Yeah. Now, having said that, something – obviously these kids need help and to be punished, right? To be clear, I'm not super pinko comedy. Like, yeah, you do something. You make a threat. You're going to get the hammer. But maybe being a juvenile and in this case 11, you shouldn't be paraded publicly, right?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Well, if you fly on a Super Saiyan alligator, it's much faster.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
There it is. Battery changes every two to three years. I was wondering how he did that. Okay.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Can I take a creepy diversion? Yeah. So my boy has decided to watch Minecraft videos on YouTube in my office, right? My home office. Sure. I've reluctantly let him. Google has figured out that likely if I open YouTube on my laptop, It's me. So it surfaces all like, you know, the political stuff I watch or big history buff, right? All that stuff. Some of the, you know, the gaming stuff.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
If it's in here, which I'm in my home office now, it's basically exclusively showing like kiddie YouTube stuff or kiddie, excuse me, kiddie Minecraft stuff. Fascinating. And it must be fingerprinting the device and saying, well, on this device, they watch this.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I think the pre-order is down, right? I mean, we've seen historically since we've been doing this show that the biggest way to get to kind of juice iPhone sales is a new form factor.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
A significant difference in case, not just size. So that's got to be it. Also, I would say that there's not a lot that's really new here. I'm on a 14 Pro Max Shabangabang, whatever they call it. And I'm not upgrading because I don't need to. Right. I'm a techie. I do a tech podcast. So why would I imagine the normies out there? I just I don't see it.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
It seems like it's a pretty it's a pretty iterative product. Even I'm two generations behind and it doesn't seem that different. Right.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Well, so I think it does, right? So this is the problem, right? Everybody makes mistakes, but in particular, children make mistakes. That's kind of – we call that growing up. And can we be old men for just a minute? I feel like we are already. I was a huge nerd in high school, right? I got picked on. I had a hard time. And then one day, somebody said something – Gross about my mother.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah, it just, it doesn't. Now, I'm hoping that the next iPhone has something. I mean, by that time, my battery will probably start being terrible.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I would totally get a foldable. Yeah, because then it becomes like a small reading tablet too.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Go check out alice.dev and check out Linux Unplugged. I like this week's episode.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I turned around and punched him in the face. I'm a little younger than you. So they took violence seriously back then. So I liked the cops game, but I was okay. Nothing really happened. The cops were like, this is stupid. It's a fist fight. To me, that is part of growing up, right? Boys in particular, they get in fights. They insult each other. They do aggressive things to each other.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
They say aggressive things to each other. And it's bad behavior, no doubt. But is it – I mean how did we get from Chris made fun of Mike or Mike made fun of Chris and somebody ended up with a bloody lip, which is all it used to be. I mean I'm sure maybe – I don't know if you directly have this experience. But boys got in fights and surely in your school as well.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I think the maximum I ever saw was like a bloody lip. And when I say ever saw, that was me. So that I did that. So I get the fear, but we've become so – And this ties into the Larry Ellison thing and it ties into the open AI safety thing where I'm actually on Sam Altman's side for a change.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Get out of there. Well, so I don't know if you know that Florida is crazy. I've heard, you know, tons, tons of our schools have had shooting or otherwise violent threats since Friday. Oh, like just since Friday? Since Friday. Yeah, tons. Like it was – my little town here was like lockdown mode. What's happened in the last few days? Do you know?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So scared of these kids getting like a little pinprick, we act like it's a sword through the chest when I think we haven't let them – and again, I'm going to say in particular boys and I know I'm going to get shit for this. But like boys, especially going through their changes right through puberty, there's an amount of aggression that they need to learn to either –
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
You know, suppress, control, or just, you know, handle, right? Your hormones are on overdrive. You can't even like get a shouting argument now without getting suspended. And God forbid you say a naughty word during that argument.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
and now it's, oh, there's therapists, there's this, there's that, when now they're killing each other, or they're threatening to, or they're sitting in a dark room because they never leave their house, posting, frankly, insane things online, which leads to a huge expense for the people of the county, and I think a wild overreaction of the community. And I understand the fear, right?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
What happened in Uvalde, what happened in Georgia, terrible. But the only thing that – the prof would blame social media, and I think that is a part of it. But we also changed how we handle – I'm not going to – I don't want to get us explicit tracked, but let's say two boys in middle school say, F you, F your mother, right? Oh, you get in trouble for that. Even back in our day, right, Chris?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
You got in trouble for that. Let's say somebody – boy B shoves boy A. You get in trouble. Now the police are there. There's anger management. There's therapy. It's – It's overboard.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
And we've created the situation where these kids now, instead of just getting in the shoving match or the fist fight or the shouting match, they go to crazy online threats that given the very few that do these kind of things. I mean, I understand why the sheriff's department, especially like this kid in my district, taunting the sheriff is very stupid. Right.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
It's it's this man's mission now to get you. and he's elected, I would say, and so is the DA, and so are all the judges. So when they catch this kid, which they will, I have a feeling if he's old enough, he'll be looking at some, shall we say, older gentlemen in prison that might want to teach him a few things that he probably doesn't want to learn.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
What's going – I mean – The one nearest to me where one of my stepkids goes to school and it's the same district as my youngest is a kid went on the internet, posted a threat that he intended to shoot the school up, right? Yeah.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I mean he's just – he's so clearly a carpetbagger in this situation.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
That's like the crazy people who say an armed society is a polite society. Yeah, because somebody tailgating you should end in a gunfight.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
It's the liberal version of that, right, where the conservative one is have all the guns.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
I could totally see that, right? Yeah. I mean, I go back way into the past with this. When I was in, let's call it middle school or high school, I had a couple – I knew them, right? It was a smaller town up north. They weren't bad per se, boys, but they were a little hyper, right? They liked to do – they were – very traditional school I went to, right?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
So sitting in rows and sitting there for hours on end and being told what to do and yes, ma'am, yes, sir was not exactly – Their wheelhouse. And then a magic little pill called Ritalin came along. See, I think the problem is you and I are old enough to remember what this was like before. And people just actually dealt with the kids and taught them how to control themselves naturally. Yeah.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
They don't like that. Right. Of course not. Right. Correctly, they respond pretty aggressively. Well, as the sheriff's department is clearing the school, this person decides, I'm assuming it's a boy. That he is going to follow the media, the social media, the local news, and taunt the school and the sheriff. Oh, man. You're kidding me. Very poor decision. Yeah.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Well, you kind of do, right? They give you like – they've always done that. They give you notes. I mean – but yeah, you're talking about – That's what I'm saying. You're talking about like act like on their device as spying.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Yeah, so I think that could actually happen. My big concern with this particular case down here and all of them down here, but I think a lot of states are like this. In Florida, like I said, the sheriff is elected in every county. The judges are all elected. And the DA is elected.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
No one who is running for election wants to be the guy that believed a kid who made a stupid Facebook post or Snap or whatever the kids use now or TikTok, right? And said, I'm going to give this kid a break and just force him to go to therapy or something like that instead of charging him criminally. No one wants to be that dude.
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Because your opponent in the next election, I mean, the ads write themselves, right? I could see the local Tampa Bay CBS and Fox stations running them day in, day out. So what they're going to do and what they've been doing is treating children like they are Osama bin Laden. And that's pretty bad. And I know people are going to be like, well, if it was your – but like it was my kids, right?
Coder Radio
588: Hulk Smash “PUNY DEVS”
Like it was the schools my kids go to. I don't – I'm not happy that this happened. The only reason I'm making this a public thing is because the wildness of the overreaction. And don't get me wrong. I got very little work done. I was nervous as a cat. I was texting my stepdaughter. I checked my son's school's page. They said we're not – we're locked – we're –
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Okay. All right. So, you know, Chris, my internet service provider only charges me $95 a month.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
But it's the most annoying one I use because it constantly requires me to reauthenticate. I'm like, it's show notes. I don't care. Yeah. Yeah. Like I care, but it's not like there's going to be like, you know, private keys to it. Like there's nothing secret in the show notes.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
It's not substantially better. I mean, I totally disagree. Just, like, get better bandwidth, man. Oh, wrong answer?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Oh, no. But I am going to be paying more effective Thursday. I'm sorry, Friday. Friday. Okay. Tell me why. Because I'm going up to 5x5 gigabytes.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I called them. The lady was like, well, you don't really need this. I said, yeah, but there's this guy. Okay. Yeah. I need to really nuke him for more. But now they had a seven by seven. What was that? Was that like 200 bucks a month? Was that too much? No, I'm using it for episode 700. Obviously, seven by seven. I see. Let me tell you something. All right. Kidding aside.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Brandon. Ooh, can I do this one? This is like my favorite. Yeah. So it's called a zero to no or low to zero interest rate drunk fed money. And if you read, I think it was Y Combinator put it out to their founders, their letter warning about the future. What happened is a lot of capital just went to, they basically had to find yield, right?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
So they went to things like VC funds and all kinds of more speculative crap. Well, now the interest rates are going up. Those VCs are going to find it harder and harder to raise rounds, which means by extension, startups will find it harder, right? It's going to become more expensive to borrow all kinds of money.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
But in tech specifically, you are going to see, and I'll stand by this one, a bloodbath of startups collapsing and laying folks off.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I just backed out of an office space deal myself for that reason. I don't want the liability on the books because landlords are very prone to sue.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
No, we're talking about like the app to put a mustache on your snake. Yes, that's a Silicon Valley reference.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah, but what that does is it makes you and me and Chris and everybody else listening de facto poorer because even though we might still make – I don't know what you make, whatever you make. Let's call it $70,000. Your $70,000 doesn't go as far as it used to because things went up 10%, 15%.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
So I get off the phone call. Do you know which percentage of the time on the telephone was spent me buying the actual service that I want? Oh, I bet 10% or something like that. Okay. Okay. Sweet lady. Nice lady. I'm not bashing her. What was she trying to do on the rest of the call? Just get your information. What? Nope. Sell me f***ing Norton antivirus. What year is it? No. Yes.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I think it would be remiss if we don't mention that there is one giant, literally donkey, who might try to encourage the Fed not to do what you described. Because historically, when the Fed does this, the party in power, this is all Americans, sorry, European folks, gets eviscerated at the polls. And we do have an election coming up.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And if the Fed does what Chris describes, which they probably have to, all these social issues that everybody's fighting about aren't going to matter. The Democrats are going to get eviscerated. Wow.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And maybe, you know, the election happened, right? Yeah. Yeah. The election happened.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Got whacked. What did people vote on? Not on, you know, whatever social issues or identity stuff they voted on. Hey, food is kind of expensive. And that's bad.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Why are we not getting 5% at least? Just a hedge fund to see. Come on.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I guess we're doing a Stargate theme. It's like one of those Stargates where the gate messes up and you go back in time instead of space. I was like, Norton. I said, I'm on an Apple. Oh, and apparently Norton has Apple products too now.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I have so many questions. So, one, who are these users that you've sampled? Not you, personally.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I kind of think it's mostly bull. I don't know. No? All right. So, like, I just upgraded my iPhone. Oh, you got the 16? Yeah.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
uh no i have yeah because i destroyed my other one uh just in time for the warranty have you tried any of the apple intelligence stuff i sure have okay uh i love so i made the mistake of putting my personal cell phone number on my company's website which i think is still there because nobody listens to me that's what i tell them to do uh it better be down but i'm gonna check right after the show uh and what uh has been happening is apparently there's a bunch of uh
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I mean, there's no nice way to say this. Just really sleazy salespeople that just farm phone numbers. So I've had to put my phone on do not disturb basically all day long and then call people back.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
apple intelligence has a mode where it kind of like it figures out like i've got a client you know named mike i've got another one named dan and it figures out if it's them let it through right because i always respond i always text back or i call or whatever um if it's dave i always you know it always lets it through because i did it figure this out on its own yeah just by my usage patterns
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
That's just a standard machine learning, though, really, isn't it? Well, that is not my most loved feature. The summarizing messages has been amazing.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I love it. Because sometimes you get a text message... Now, I haven't... We don't have that many outages, but if... whatever, like an Alice instance goes out or something, I want to know that immediately, right? So I want to get it back up. But if it's just like, hey, give me a call when you get a chance, well, I'll call you when I can. So, yeah, I'm loving it. I don't know.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I hate the writing tools. See, this is my thing. The writing tools... These are like the most HR-driven fake emails or fake text messages back you could ever get. I would be embarrassed to send somebody something like that because it doesn't seem like it's from a person. Well, because it's not, right?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
What if you're writing to Rust developers and you make this 100 times meaner?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
What I thought was – Throw in some of your mama jokes while you're at it.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Okay. But the fact that you keep adding me into photos where I assassinate Kennedy from the grassy knoll. Has been awesome. Problematic for me. Okay.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah. Why is the crooked media team camping out in my front lawn right now being like truth for JFK?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
All right, you know what? I'm not throwing shade at RFK Jr. I listened to eight hours of RFK Jr. about Red 40 and Yellow No. 5, and I'm throwing a bunch of shit at that.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Wait, wait, Chad Jippity? You're going to just get away with that? Chad Jippity. Chad Jippity. You know what, Sam? You should trademark that right now.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Although, I'll give this lady credit. She said, oh, well, 5x5. She's like, yeah, we have the service. She said, so, are you running Apache systems? You know what? Just for knowing the name Apache. Was she port scanning you?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Then how do people know that we're really us and not AI replicants?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Well, I definitely wouldn't put that we went to System76 and Carl Rachel murdered us personally. Accusing him of murder right now. and used our blood to cool his new Thaleo Astra. This is not an ad. I just, you know, I do weep for our former carbon-based brothers. This is Mike AI, and that's Chris AI. And again, Carl Richel murdered us for his wonderful ARM64-powered Astra Thaleo desktop.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
That little slip in my speech was because he's trying to hack me right now. It could be worth it. It could be worth it. It's a pretty fast machine, just saying. Again, Carl, if you want to pay us for ads, you know, stop killing us.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I think they should conquer not just Mission Control. Mission Control should conquer Operation Control, System Control. You got any other controls we could knock them out? Sure. Let's do it.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
So, Eric, I like your boost. Thank you. I just have, like, one problem with it. Why you got to mention Swift? We don't talk about that. He earned it. He earned it. He paid to make me sad.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yes. You think I was going to let you get away with episode 600 and not mention robes?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You knew I was going to do it. You should have just... Fair enough. I got to tell you something. I still have my OG, the first run Coder Radio robe, and that is so comfortable. We need more robes. Yeah. Boost in if you want more robes and to help me harass Chris. Also, the Coder Radio tumbler, it doesn't matter how much Hendrix you have in it.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You knock that over on your MacBook Pro, you don't destroy the computer. Yeah.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
No, they were. She's like, so, actually, it's so funny you say that. She said, I see the account paying for your account is in the corporation's name. I'm like, yep. Okay. Okay.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Tim Cook called me. He's like, I sent you a case of gin and three new MacBooks. You got to test them out for durability. I'm like, I got my Coder Radio Tumblr. They're not going to get a drop.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Oh, no, no, no. So Nostromo writes in. Yeah, 20,000 sats. You're doing a good job.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah, but I'm usually playing Civ 6 with Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah, I got to tell you, it's going to be tough four years for Sammy boy there, I think. Yeah, he did just kick in a million bucks to Trump's inauguration fund. Whoa, whoa, hang on. Of course. Listen, the Big Macs and chicken nuggets on Trump's plane are frankly the best. Well, and they don't come free. Somebody's got to pay for it. Even RFK Jr. is eating them now.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
hmm yeah so i ended up with five static ips too oh oh man dang you could set up a little data center who says i'm not there you go it's all gonna serve jar jar binks memes sure yeah nobody else will so somebody's got to do it yeah see yeah i don't know why you're like that but chris 600 episodes oh man congratulations dude that's pretty awesome congratulations to you of fully bad advice
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
It doesn't seem to work. Well, do I have a solution for you? Go ahead and write sales at themadbotter.com or, you know, just go to alice.dev. Also, Chris suppressed. He censored you. You sent in two notes. Oh, I did? Oh, you're right. Oh, God. Oh, I missed that.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You're supposed to. Go ahead. Go on, let's go. Suck on some Jar Jar Sats. Notice which one he misses. I did.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Today's Coder Radio is brought to you by the little bulls**t. All right, I sucked on those sats.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Real-world question, Chris, on the boosts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do they have to use Fountain to set the profile? If they're using Fountain to boost. Okay, but what if, can they do it on the web and have a profile name instead of like user three, seven, whatever?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I think you should change your username, though, to TheCoderProf. That would be good. Or, ready? GunganProf. CodeProf? Something Jar Jar related. GunganCodeProf? That's very long, though.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
See, me and Wes had a long Pydantic, not a joke, it's a real Python library, conversation last night. We should monetize that. We should, like, print T-shirts of me and Wes going back and forth on Python libraries. Yeah.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
It was me, you jackass. I don't remember. Oh, yeah. Chris is like, I've been using this forever. I love it. I love it. You see, the boss takes over. See what happens? Yeah.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
The real power of this, although he's right that there is a website you could just do that with...
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
is it's just a pip package right or poetry if you prefer yes yeah yeah you can run this locally so if you don't want to share your documents with some weird third party or cloud vendor or hell microsoft themselves you run this baby on your local computer your own server your hell i i shouldn't say this i'm running on a bunch of raspberry pis
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I will dunk on it a little. So the OCR on images is pretty... Not so good? Yeah. It's not great. I think we have a lot of dark matter devs, right? A lot of things end up as Excel files. Yeah. It's just... God damn it.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You know what, Chris? You know what? They expect the Jar Jar, but you know what they're getting?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Well, Markdown's smaller, and it's – so this library doesn't do it, and I might be giving away a little bit of secret sauce I'm doing for somebody. But Markdown is effectively a universal data format. So you can go back from Markdown to, let's say, Excel or let's say a structured database or, you know, if you really want to get fancy presentation, write a PowerPoint presentation.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Well, it's an open. I mean, kidding aside, it's an open data format that anybody can use and there's no licensing encumbrance. So.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And Scott Guthrie is ready to help you. I don't even know if Scott Guthrie actually does the stuff at Microsoft right now.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
You could go to alice.dev or, because it's the holidays, why don't you enjoy some Babylon 5? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Well, I mean, obviously, you got to go with the one with Mr. Freeze. I think it's season two, episode three, if I'm not mistaken. It's called the Shadow War. Mr. Freeze, who is a, what do they call them? Oh my God, Shadow Mage, something like that, explains to the humans that like, yeah, we're all going to die soon. Because aliens. Yeah. Also, never trust a Centauri.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I mean, I'm pretty sure Captain Picard doesn't feel it was a great holiday experience. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
So a quarter radio bet here. Yeah. We're going to take one week off. Something major is going to happen.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I think Sam Altman, and this is my bet, Sam Altman and Elon go into the octagon to settle the differences.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Chevron 600 is a lock, baby. Stargate all the way. Although, as is performed, we did not check if the dial home device was operable on the other side. So everybody dies at the end.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I mean, you and I, Chris, I hope you're not offended. You and I are kind of more portly fellows. We're bigger dudes. Yeah, yeah. So I think Elon is a brother in this as well. So maybe Elon's dressed like Santa Claus, and Sam Altman, let's be honest, that man is either the Heatmiser or an elf.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Well, elves can be vampires too, right? So he could be a dark elf for all our Baldur's Gate 3 players out there. Yeah. I'm sure I'm wrong on the lore. I think – and somebody please send me D&D. I think there is like vampire elves, right? It's a thing. I'm going to say yes. I mean now how he's going to make up that – what is it now? Like $17 million? Oh, yeah. There's a – oh, yeah.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And also the other big feature they're pushing in VS 2022, the kind of AI code assistant thing. I don't like GitHub CodePilot. I don't want that built into my editor. I have lots of concerns about potential license violations if they regurgitate GPL code.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
It's just not the kind of thing I would rather just better IntelliSense via, you know, semantic, just like the normal semantic crap that all these code completion things have been using forever. Not AI scanning open GitHub repos. That's my soapbox. I know people are excited about it.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
We haven't talked about that in a while. Well, I think they kind of fixed it, right? Yeah, yeah. And also, I think not using something like CodePilot at this point is actually putting you and, frankly, your clients or customers at a disadvantage. Ooh, I like this hot take. All right, so I wasn't going to do anything new today, but I guess I'll share something new.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
My main use for Copilot and my $200 chat GPT sub is asking it for libraries that are the correct licenses that do things I need to do. Oh, interesting. Yeah. it is far more efficient than I could ever be searching GitHub. Huh. Yeah.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
It's a very boring use, but it actually saves me a ton of time because usually it gives you the library, then it produces like a sample of like, if you want to integrate this with, you know, FastAPI, because I told it I use FastAPI.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Chris, if you and I keep making nice with the natives, our child support bills are going to be astronomical. We've got to stop with the natives. Yeah, especially those intergalactic fees they put on those. Oh, my God. This is why Bitcoin needs to be a thing, just to avoid those transit fees. Right.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Yeah, I thought it was like a dumb toy. We did it. Honestly, it was one of our little, okay, we need content. Let's just throw it in.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I sort of feel like this is either one of those things that I'm just going to completely be wrong about. I don't get it. I get the concept, but everybody that I follow and that follows me or whatever on Twitter is all pissed off about this. I don't understand why. It's a kind of bad idea that isn't working super well. And there may be some licensing issues. I don't know. I'm not an attorney.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I personally don't understand how there could be. But like, oh, it reproduced a stupid bad code. Well, yeah, it's just regurgitating code that's public available on GitHub. What idiot would copy pasta code from GitHub or Stack Overflow? Every developer ever is the right answer to that question. But we all pretend like we don't. So like, I don't know. Is it, I mean, could it be useful? Maybe.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
I don't. Honestly, I did not install it. So this is one of those things like maybe I'm completely missing the boat. I mean, my judgment's been so good with Windows 8 and Metro.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
And I'm flying with my drunken robotic friend. You signed up. You actually signed up. I paid for a year. And this is the dumbest pair programming partner I've ever had.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
My stepdaughter is agency. She's 14. And she introduced me to the phrase YOLO. And you know what? If there's anything that. Our friend Alex, listening to all the Coder Radios, might learn. I seem to, without saying it, be very YOLO. And you know what? I wanted to see how good this Codepilot is. Let me tell you something. It's pretty f***ing bad. Really? Is it pretty? Is it like dumb?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Just like bad code? It's like the drunkest junior developer I've ever met. And let me tell you something. Having been a very drunk junior developer myself in the past, I don't understand what I paid for.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
No, because the only thing I'm using it for is a video game I'm running for my son. Well, I can't say video game. It's a Minecraft mod because my son has very sadly picked up the Pokemon problem, but he wasn't happy with just regular drugs. He had to go to fentanyl. And when I say fentanyl, I mean Minecraft. Yeah, boy, that is. That is the good stuff. And now he wants to code some mods.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
That's bullshit too. But yeah, it's gotten better. You know what the worst part of that clip was for me? What? My son just told me that my Visual Studio code theme sucks because it's been three years, and he's exploring his own for his Python-powered Minecraft mods. You really need your own dedicated environment for that kind of thing. You know what I gave him? Carl will be happy. What's that?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
That's a good kid machine. Sure, absolutely. Good kid machine. 16 gigs of RAM. It's a couple years old, but AMD processor. Makes it nice and easy. Remember, if you only care about Minecraft for some weird... Children, I don't get it. I didn't get it three years ago when that clip was recorded. I still don't get it. It's Legos. But you know what?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
My kid is like... Okay, so... I'm taking a tangent here. We're solidly, right?
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
yeah you know you worry about your son on the internet right he's got a web browser um because i want to torture him i'm making him use firefox sure good good yeah it's also the default on uh oh also side side though uh the poor bastard is not on cosmic because this machine is that old and it's an lts so he's got another year to go
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
Oh, well, I thought we weren't going to talk about that because I didn't want to hurt your feelings.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
okay but i do you want to do the upgrades no no no no i look i'm like he's in firefox what's he doing he's on pi pi looking at different minecraft powered python packages that is rad wow My man, like he's going to be nine years old in a few months. I think he sleeps and when he snores, he says PIP3 install.
Coder Radio
600: Mikestrodamus
On episode 600? Well, fine. I'll nuke your feelings. I'll nuke it from orbit. Let's do it.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Also, first of all, I have tremendous faith in our audience's ability to do all kinds of hacking. So I guarantee you, not only could they do it, Chinese government, if you're looking to hire somebody, the Coder Radio audience, you couldn't find better people.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
You know, if you're a troll and you're listening to this next week, you got to go in the jobs chat and have like a panda bear with a red flag being like, hello, Coder Radio people. Yeah, there you go. No, it's, it just, okay, so I can, I briefly did a contract for one of the telcos. It was a stupid thing, but it was a stupid mobile thing for them.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And the level of we're not changing anything or updating anything unless we're getting paid for it is strong with these guys.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Well, and it's also a cost center for them. Oh, for sure. So their incentive is to be like, oh, we have to comply with the stupid government thing. Let's just like give them an open thing so they can look themselves, which is how it works. Yeah. Right.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
So I'm just, you know, it's really this is one of those cases where whoever decided this was a good idea either didn't understand technology enough to know what would happen, which seems super likely. I'm going to assume incompetence or didn't care.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Well, that's true. 30 years ago, the risk would have been more like physical security. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like the AT&T guy gets blackmailed and goes in and steals the data. I mean, that would be.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Yeah. Most of that is basically the read any – you're an entrepreneur, but you don't know how to do sales because you're like a – well, a developer, right? This is how you do sales. Of course you want to focus on your enthusiastic early adopters who took a risk on you when nobody else did. Of course focusing on one niche, right? That's basically what he's saying by focusing down.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
It's the only way if you're a small shop because you don't have the resources to go wide and it doesn't make sense to do it anyway. Focusing on a geographical area, I could see how that would make sense because, again, you have limited wood to put behind the arrows. The only one I thought was a little weird is you won't attend a conference that you're not a speaker at.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
That's like, yeah, all right. That's kind of like, do you know who I am? I don't know. I don't think that is necessarily true.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
I mean, I don't know how I feel about that from a practical perspective, because if you want to really manage a properly manage an open source project, that's a lot of work. And you're you're unless it's something like really fundamental, like you're the guy who invented jQuery, your ROI. I just don't think it's going to be there.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
It can be a piece of your product. Or you could be like, you know, insert project here. We'll just use our pals at Docker as an example. Open source your product and have Amazon capture a bunch of the value.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
I can give another example, MongoDB, right? MongoDB will love to sell you Mongo enterprise stuff, right? But how many people just using MongoDB and their node app are actually even like in the ballpark of being Mongo enterprise customers? I would say 0.01% maybe.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
I would argue in many cases there that just won't be a thing.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Yeah, this is a misunderstanding of how open source generally works. One, I mean, if you're able to market your open source product such that it's generating sales for you, I would argue that your energy would have been better spent just marketing your core product because you're really good at marketing and sales.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
They may not know. Yeah. Right. That's that's a great point. The person developing the end application may be pulling some other, I don't know, NPM library that pulls another one that pulls yours and have no idea who the hell you are.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Wes is right. He's in the chat saying this sounds like LinkedIn lunatics more and more. This is the kind of crap you get like somebody's LinkedIn article post.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
You still have to develop the entire open source utility.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
We could do a segment. This is the – you know, I've been getting some real whoppers. I shit you not. So this is – we're doing a double because of Hurricane Milton today. I know I'm breaking the illusion. Someone had the balls to send me an email trying to get me to buy their offshore development services, which is a thing I don't do. What kind of – what's the pitch there? What's the – Oh, no.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Are you ready? Here you go. Dear Mr. Dominic, I want to extend my deepest sympathy. Not sympathy. It's just sympathy. But fine. You know, I'll take it. It's a minor. Uh, to you and your family and the whole firm at Mad Botter. Cool. I want to know that I'm happy to help my firm offers. And it's just the normal list of like, here's our $20 an hour offshore or whatever it is, uh, development rates.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Um, I hit the spam button with a sledgehammer. I couldn't take it. That's some scummy stuff right there. And I am sure that's regular email. So this person took the time to get my email. I guarantee you, and I know they don't listen to the show because they spelled Dominic wrong and they spelled Mad Bonner wrong. But my LinkedIn messages...
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
are going to be – if this is the new tactic, whatever scummy sales tactic is the new thing, I keep getting it. I don't know. I'm just pitching in, Moni, but leveraging a natural disaster that puts people's families in harm's way as – That's a certain kind of cynical.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
You watched Wall Street and were like, Gordon Gekko makes a ton of sense to me. I don't understand what the deal is with this movie. Yeah.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
It's online mostly. I have the generator. We talked about this just two weeks ago when there was another game. I have my Verizon Jump thing. They don't call it Jump anymore. It's like a MiFi, but a hotspot. I know what you mean. The first one I bought was called Isis, hilariously. Yeah, I remember that. They quickly changed that. Yes.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
So I'm kind of like prepared, but I could see like I'm sure I'm not the only one who got this email. Right. I bet there's a couple of people who got it like that want to throttle this guy.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
So this is Mike's scumbag of the week. It should be a new segment.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
You know, but just don't send emails trying to sell things with natural disasters. And then go to alice.dev if you're experiencing a great day where we can help with your ETL and automation needs.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And usually, and I remember we had to throw one out because the audio was so good. Yeah, it happens. That happens too. That's why we don't do guests. Yeah.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
So, yeah, it's kind of a tough thing, right? I mean, I agree with everything you're saying about backups and historical, you know, keeping the history of these games. I would also add, just as an aside, this problem of keeping the history of these games and like preserving them.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
is there's actually a much worse problem and that's all that all these games are now live service games yeah service is turned off the game your disc or your digital copy or whatever you have is effectively you know broke right your DVD or blu-ray is a is a coaster
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Going to make that hard. Yeah. I can't say that I 100% agree with Nintendo's hyper-aggressive actions and, frankly, you know, Godfather-style tactics here.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
I definitely see it with the switch. And I also like it. It's nice to talk about the historical preservation stuff. I would be willing to bet if somehow you did a real investigation, it's the vast majority of it's just piracy. It's gotta be right. It's gotta be just people who want to not pay for the games.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Oh, for sure. For sure. So, you know, I don't know. It's one of the – if you're doing one of these projects – You know, this isn't like a new development, right? Nintendo has been, I mean, Nintendo didn't want people to post YouTube reviews of their games.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Put a tiny little machine in there. No, because $14.99 a month is more money. And if you want access to those games, you're paying it in perpetuity.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And also it looks better for the markets because the way they – I mean this is wild, right? This is like inside baseball. But generally the way that revenue is valued for valuations, recurring revenue is better.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
I mean, I can tell you what the other side is going to say. What? I'd love to try to steel man this. I'll steel man it. The next time, first of all, we'll do our normal joke. Think of the children.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Or election interference. Yeah, I think they'll go with the terrorism stuff first, but yeah. We talk about this all the time. Every couple months this comes up, right? If your goal, if your stated aim is to prevent all crime, right, you're going to have this stuff and it's going to cause all kinds of trouble.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Well, police have been policing since Grog, the third caveman, was like, hey, we need one of us to stop the other cavemen from stealing things and attacking the women and children or whatever. Even back then, there were cave paintings that said, think of the children, I bet, right? So it's bull, right?
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Police used to be able to do policing without all this technical wizardry and constant surveillance. And you know what they had to do instead of relying on technology? And same thing for civil cases, like, oh, I have the text messages. You actually have to do some detective work, right?
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
You have to actually gather evidence, interview witnesses, and not just, you know, get a couple of keystrokes and say, well, you put this, especially if you look at places like our good friends in the UK, who were now like, you know, that angry drunk text you sent might now be a felony. It's really, that is a thing that happens in the UK. Yeah. I hate all of this. This was bound to happen.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
The worst part is this was happening apparently for a long time, and you're just hearing about it now.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
If I'm a Chinese spook here... Because none of this is anonymized, right? So you could just go through and find particular people you'd like to put pressure on. Like, hey, Mr. Executive at a company that has valuable IP we'd like to, you know, research we'd like to exploit. So that's a pretty cute college girl you got there that you see every other week. Be a shame if your wife found out. Sure.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
Much like, or hell, you're Nintendo, right? What an interesting GitHub project you were texting about.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
I've gotten to the point where maybe this is just like, you know what? The cops were able to do their job before. The feds were able to do their jobs before. I think everything – they should write a law. There should be a regulation here. The regulation is end-to-end encryption becomes mandatory. Right. And no one can get to it.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And then there will be risk and there will be cases and you will have, you know, pearls being clutched. But it's better than how many years was this going on? How much data, sensitive data, right? Personal stuff. Maybe you're a military officer and you're secretly gay. How many of these do we even find out about? Right. The case I just made happened.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
The government, Sisyphus, I always say wrong, stopped Grindr from selling itself to foreign investors because they're like, look, man, you could say whatever. This is like 2022. But that is a blackmail vector. So, this is terrible. This is why the backdoors should not only not exist, it should be illegal, everything should be end-to-end encrypted.
Coder Radio
591: FOSS does what Nintendont
And we just, we have to go back to understanding that you can't, it's like if you live in Florida, right? You want to create a hole in your house to get a better breeze. Great, but the snakes and the gators can get in there too.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Well, that's what it felt like, right? It felt like they had to have an AI story. And we talked about this in our DubDub episode, too. And right now, whether this makes a whole lot of sense or not, Wall Street analysts want you to be talking about AI. So this is very, we're, you know, this is very, we're in the beanie babies, right? We're in the fad.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
That's not to say all AI is fake or anything like that, but. It's pretty clear that Apple threw this together pretty recently, right? As we record, this is the day after the event, their stock's down. Right. I don't really have much on this topic. I feel like if you want a phone, get a phone. But there's nothing earth-shattering in these.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I do feel like if you want to fry the bacon, the Cupertino Apple Smoked Bacon... What really, in my opinion, happened here is they had a whole multi-year AR roadmap laid out.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
That's why the cameras and the pros are so balling, right? It was going to be that the iPhone Pro is now your content creation device for the Apple Vision Pro. Yes. And la-di-la-di-la. Well, that fell right on its face. And they had to do a hard pivot for Wall Street. They had to do a hard pivot because Sam Altman came out and, you know, kind of repositioned OpenAI as a...
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Though technically not a commercial company at the moment, it's still owned by the nonprofit. There's lots of whispers that there's going to be some chicanery to change that. And that, you know, like you said, it basically put a bee in Wall Street's bonnet, and they needed a story about AI. So they made this weird partnership with ChatGPT, which is really not a whole lot, right?
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And they're doing Apple AI, okay. But they're not doing anything. I mean, it's a little weird, too, right? You could think they're the platform vendor, and one of the biggest complaints of iOS power users is how siloed apps are.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
The obvious but perhaps like really technically challenging thing with even their own internal architecture thing for them to do would be to basically make, I think they call it workflows on iOS now. You can like have apps like, you know, basically Unix pipes, right? Pipe data to one each other. Have Siri be able to just do that.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
For instance, I got the Overcast update and for about a week I was very unhappy with it because it kept crashing and I listened to a lot of podcasts.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
It feels like ADA bait, right? That's what that was. The ADA stands for Apple Design Awards for folks who didn't spend a decade doing iOS development. And it would have been very nice to say, hey, Siri, get the data, the OPL file, the OPL file from Overcast and shunt it to like, I don't know, Pocket Cast or something.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Or Fountain, I guess, or whatever. Yeah, there you go. The problem is, one, Overcast took out the ability to export the OPNL file, which I feel like that wasn't a lot of code. And I kind of feel like, hmm, you took this out when you were launching what you probably knew was an unstable update. It's a very Mike Dominic move. I got to give it to you, Marco. That's something I would do. I mean...
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, I mean, this will be in court for 10 years if they actually go for the breakup, right?
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I mean, make you be patient. Because it's obviously fixed now, right? I'm still using it day to day. I'm a premium customer. But the first week, week and a half, two weeks was pretty touching. Yeah. So still a good app. If you are looking for an iOS podcast app and you don't want to do whatever, it's fine.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
it it it would have been great for siri to be able to handle that kind of thing for me what a dream yeah apple just really feels that those walls around each individual app silo have to be manned by snipers and with a gator filled moat straight from tallahassee so i don't i guess we can't have that but yeah i i feel like the it's like it is a big story but it's only big because of how like where's the beef right there's nothing there's no there there this one
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, it's a level of, I think maybe calling it vapor is a little too spicy, but I'll call it vapor.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I mean, you know, all roads lead to what to investor relations here.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But, Chris, those colors are pretty on the non-Pro version. Yeah. Nice job with the case.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, I mean, I could see me, of all the things they announced, I might pick up, or I think I'm pretty likely to pick up, is I'm running Gen 1 AirPods, and I use them all the time. Yeah, yeah. Again, for my podcasts, such as Linux Unplugged.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I know, but it feels... The only thing that I think is a little unnecessarily Tim Cookie about these AirPods... $50 for noise canceling on the same line? I mean, come on.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I don't know. I just... I wonder if... Like, I also have a pair of the AirPod Max, and I used to use them more... I mean, they're fine, right? I will agree, like, for over-the-head headphones, they're probably the best ones I have. Good for music. Really great. Right. But the reality is, I usually have, like, one AirPod of, like, the, you know, Gen 1 in because I'm...
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I see. Well, my stepdaughter went through a gossip girl phase, so then you put both AirPods. Maybe I will get the active noise canceling.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I'll have to see one of these in person because, again, I have the 14 Pro Max, whatever it's called. And at least in the demo, which you would think the demo would be the cat's pajamas, right? I didn't feel like I got to go get this.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Now, maybe I could be compelled because I have Verizon and sometimes they're like, hey, it's been two years. Then, yeah, I will get it.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
See, I guess maybe it's where I am. I just don't have the call problems.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, that is pretty sweet. All right, so what if you're not loyal to the Apple ecosystem? What if you're surfing the WSL wave, Mike? Yeah, so to celebrate the end of summer and to, frankly, make better use of this ridiculously over-spec Dell I have here, I decided to give WSL a shot again.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I did. Oh, wow. So the image is of Tux surfing on top of something with like a vaguely Microsoft Windows-esque logo on it. Yes. Yeah.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
You know, we've talked about it before. I think it might be a year ago. And it's certainly come a long way to the point where so far, about a weekend, it is 100% usable. The biggest hiccup I hit was actually trying to, and this isn't WSL, this is just Windows.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
When I was trying to get on the air, I was trying to get on the air on the Dell, and Chrome kept saying, your Windows is blocking the microphone. So I went to do what Chrome said, and it didn't help. So that's probably – Rough edges for those kinds of things.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Well, and I have a suspicion that it's the way, because I plugged in the Zoom 22 into the front of the Dell via USB-C that I use for the Mac. I bet had I ran it behind the desk into like a regular USB-A port, I just have this feeling it would have not been done. But we're talking about WSL, not Windows in general. We should just take a quick detour, right? So Windows is fine, right?
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
PowerShell is, I would say... Pretty good now, even though I don't use it much at all. They have fixed, and you can read DHS's post about this too, text rendering is no longer terrible on Windows until you get into some of those older applications that look like a dead turkey. And WSL, so there's still two modes. There's WSL 1, which is like the translation layer.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Think of it like wine, but Windows to Linux almost. Kind of slow. The only real big advantage is that working with the Windows file system is faster. What you really want, and what most people are talking about when they talk about WSL today, is WSL 2, which is running a full big daddy tux Linux kernel inside of Windows.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
It does more stuff. And a lot of, I'm jumping ahead a little bit here, but a lot of the IDE vendors, such as, you know, I love my JetBrains tools, right, have strong WSL support now.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Where it's like two-click setup for, I'm using PyCharm and RubyMine, of course. Really easy setup. CLion has good integrations.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, VS Code does some weird stuff. It automatically configures itself if you install their plugin, and it will sometimes launch a Linux version of VS Code or VS Code in a Linux email for you if you type code into WSL.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, so if you want the I-want-to-do-no configuration of an IDE whatsoever, Visual Studio Code is your buddy. It's there for you.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, well, I kind of think it might be why VS Code exists, to be honest with you. It's really... You know, I did take a quick walk on the VS Code site again, and they are... they really want to make it easy for you to go from like VS code to get hub to deployed.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And there's all kinds of little Microsoft published helpers for that. So take that for what it's worth, right? You know, you just, how tightly you want to be in that ecosystem.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I know you're a Penguin guy. So I did two. I did Penguin, but I ended up writing the post. I'm going to do a more in-depth one later with Ubuntu for the simple fact that Ubuntu is free.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And most of the tutorials that I think beginners will find are going to be for Ubuntu. Okay.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
So you don't have to run it at startup either. Right, okay, right. I mean, I don't notice it. I also have 128 gigs of RAM on my machine. By default, it only allows it to take up to 50% of the RAM on your system.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
That's all. In your system, that's still a ridiculous amount of RAM. Well, right. There's a config file where you can override that if you're insane. But I have noticed no performance lag. Again, 128 gigs of RAM. Yeah, yeah.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
So I haven't done, I don't do my dev environments in Docker. I deploy to Docker for staging and production. So I have not, but that is definitely something I should look into.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
So there's two things. Let me just jump to the Docker thing real quick too. Yeah, so there's other ways to use Docker, right? You could do like Doku or Docker Compose where like Voltron's up the Docker container on the server, which is basically what I do. Okay. So the advantage is, well, you know, that $1,500 Mac Studio display I bought? About two years ago? Yeah. Hmm. decided to die.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Oh, so this is more of a rage trial. I see. I see. Um, no, but there are, there are legitimate advantages, right? Like, so I do have, um, windows applications that I still support. I have, uh, you know, some game stuff that I'm doing gaming and game dev stuff that is just easier on windows right now. And I gotta be honest with you. Like I'm going to be redoing my little home office.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Cause I just, I grabbed a monitor I had in the garage and, The prices on non-Apple stuff, I know this is going to come as I told you so from a lot of our commenters. There's just a whole world of affordable things out there in every shape and size.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I can also upgrade this Dell thing. I think it can go up to 256 gigs, which is ridiculous.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, so, I mean, a couple, you know, I do like the PC game. Proton has come a long way. Lutris is great. We've talked about them both in the show. It still is a lot easier just to, like, you know, have it native on Windows, especially if you play, like, online RTSs, which I do quite a bit recently. Those stupid, what do they call them? Not DRM. Anti-cheats. Oh, God. Anti-cheats.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
For some reason, they must be something I'm doing. They just hate Lutris.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah. I mean, I will say, I mean, this isn't the Windows Action Show. Windows 11 isn't that. It just isn't. And it sounds like the dev story you think is pretty solid. The dev story is solid. Now, maybe, like, so far I haven't hit anything. Maybe I will hit some crazy situation. My one big hurdle, but this was user error,
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
was you really, if you're going to be working your dev environment in WSL, just keep your code in the Linux file system. Don't try to cross the streams. Performance sucks crossing the streams. There's weird pathing issues as it tries to convert Windows paths to Linux paths or Unix paths, rather. Yeah, that's just not good. I kind of don't care for the GUI features.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Like, this is Penguin super big into this. And I know most of the mainstream distros have added this, too, where you could just launch GUI apps from WSL Linux versions like full X11 server. I guess that's cool if you need one of them. I'm mostly using it basically as the Unix. Right. You know, the POSIX stuff, the Linux command line. Right. With Windows native Linux.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Jetbrain IDEs because that's what I've used for work using the WSL SDKs as the remote interpreters remote in quotes because it's you know not in fact remote right it's a couple file system jumps away yeah and the idea sort of slash hope there is kind of like best of both worlds I suppose Yeah, the only other hiccup I've had is RuboCop, which is, I'm trying to think what, like a flake?
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
It's a linter. It's even slower in WSL. Oh, sure, yeah. I bet some things would be, wouldn't they? I figured it out, and I actually ended up asking JetBrains about it. It is not RuboCop. It is the round trip it has to take for the way they have, at most IDs, integrated into the editor. And they were able to show me you can prove it if you just go into Terminal on WSL.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
and run the command manually that it's running, it's just as fast as you'd expect. That feels like a tooling thing where I would not be shocked if RubyMine couldn't fix that. I did spin up a VS Code instance in Windows that had Ruby support. But targeting WSL again, right? It did not have this performance issue for RuboCop.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But it notably doesn't have the automatic, like you could just click and be like, accept this recommendation. So I think there's something about the way they've implemented that that causes an issue. But that is a tiny, tiny gripe. And also sometimes RubyCop suggests crazy crap.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Or things that are technically, quote, the Ruby way, but make your code indecipherable to anyone who hasn't been learning under Mr. Kane for a while. Is it Dr. Kane? Father Kane? He's just an old dude, right? I don't know.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I feel like I should know that. I bet he's like a monk or something, yeah.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Mandatory WSL. Yeah. I believe Arch Linux is available, too, so you could really. There you go. There you go. I like the way you're thinking.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I may be wrong. Yeah, we'll see what happens. I mean, you know, it's interesting the businesses they're talking about splitting out. When, if I think of, you know, self-sustaining businesses at Google, I would think of YouTube, obviously. And then actually maybe the not, I think, discussed enough Google App Engine, which is like their AWS or Azure.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
That's actually a great point, right? They used to literally make videos coming out and saying, you know, this is just like your Apache web server, man. Come on. Hey, here's XServe. You can run Apache. So when you're doing your Java – remember Java was the hotness, your Java development. It's just like the – it's the same environment that you're going to be running in production. So – and –
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, they even tried to supplant my beloved Objective-C with Joth at one point, but we smoked Duke down.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But Chrome, I don't know how Chrome could possibly live on its own.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Well, also it's the salience of the false positive. You probably see more ads in a day than you think and you just remember or take note of the ones that seem eerie to you.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Also, your browser agent also gives you away. If you are, I don't know, a Mac user using Safari on a pretty nice machine, they have a profile of guys who are within a certain age group, a certain demographic, who are Apple users, right? Yeah. Honestly, that's how podcasting ads work, too. You figure out who your audience is. I mean, Chris, tell me if I'm way off base. You're right.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
And you sell them things that stereotypically they would probably buy.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Right. It's a lead generation tactic. I mean, you know, definitely be concerned about how much you're tracked. But just like take a minute and read an article about lithium-ion batteries. Hell, read the Wikipedia. Yeah. then you will understand why this is not happening anytime soon.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
I mean, we should go, but the real bacon one I'll just let folks hear about. Your credit card company, depending on who it is, many of them are doing this now, are actually tracking your transactions and selling data to advertisers.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
So that means you don't have to even be online. You could simply go to Publix or, I don't know, Kroger's, I don't know where you are. And they'll be like, huh, this person seems to be trying out vegetarianism this month. Right.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
No, they admitted it. Yeah. I have a cap one card and they're like, hey, we're going to be selling all your. Mm hmm. Yeah. So it's. Yeah.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Right. If you are like a Moldavian scientist who solved the cold fusion, great. You've done it. Yeah, you could probably pull this off.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
We'll figure it out. I got like one last hurrah. Oh, we would be remiss if we didn't say rest in peace to Lord Vader. Oh, right.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, it would be interesting, right? Because then it would also compete with Google search and other people have discussed this possibility. But like I said, if there is anything like that suggested, it will be Oracle versus Google level appeals.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Well, I would say that there are Buddhist monks of the audience, right?
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
Yeah, I mean, you know, I'll just give my general impressions, right? All these iPhones are basically performance bumps from the 15. I'm on a 14 Pro Max, whatever. I am still, you know, I'm toying with it. I'm not sure I'm going to upgrade.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
No, I don't see that drawing me to upgrading. I think about what I do on my phone. I use it as a phone. Shocker right now. I listen to podcasts and audiobooks and check my email. Oh, and I take pictures of my kid. Now, honestly, the most compelling thing is the camera stuff on the new Pros. Yeah, cameras are better for sure.
Coder Radio
587: Surfing the WSL Wave
But is that worth me, you know, having a phone payment or dropping whatever it's going to cost?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Glory of Docker, you can run multiple applications on one box in different containers. Again, Docker, we knew them when, when they were just we lads. But it's a huge pain in the ass to sync the data, right? This Postgres database, this kind of thing that I hate doing because it's error prone.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
This is a hickory maple dry rub. Oh, okay. You got me. That I had put on the ribs hours before cooking them and kind of let seep in. Yeah. So that's the dry rub rack. The other one is just sweet baby raised barbecue sauce. Great barbecue sauce, but it's just barbecue sauce, right?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And, you know, everybody says they don't care about the second instance, the staging instance, but they definitely care, right? You're going to get the calls that it's down or whatever, something crazy happened. Yeah. So I was looking for a way to make this less of a support burden.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And little did I know about this app's clone functionality in Doku, which I use every single day and have been for years. See what happens when you don't read the damn manual? What it does is it takes the existing instance, copies the application, the environment variables to a point. You can change them later. And most importantly, any attached databases.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
So Doku obviously has the Doku Postgres plugin. And like Doku Storage, any of those configurations you're using for... Doku has a robust plugin system. And creates a new instance. Things it doesn't do for you. SSL. Big pain in the butt. Okay. Change environment variables, also pain in the butt.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
For instance, you probably don't want to be sending emails or push notifications or anything like that from your staging instance, right? Now, my case was a Rails case, but this would work for, you know, FastAPI or, you know, Spring, really anything, right? Java Spring, whatever, right?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I wrote a very simple bash script and using good old cron because we're on Linux and we have things like this that make this easy. Ran this command, right? Doku apps clone. I think I did. It's like every Sunday at midnight or 1 a.m. Okay. goes in after it's been cloned, calls Let's Encrypt, which is the free way to get SSL certs, right?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Which Doku has a lovely plugin for, so it calls the Doku Let's Encrypt plugin, configures that all properly because you have to do it every time for every instance. So then you get your SSL, then goes in and changes the environment variable, in my case it's the Rails env, to be staging, which I just put a simple flag in the application to prevent certain actions I don't want to happen on staging.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Long and short of it, I have a pretty stable, nothing bad has happened to it yet, instance that is mirroring production data, which is what my customer wanted. It is not on a box outside of their network. It is on the same box as prod right now. And so they have no additional security concerns, right? It's not like I'm
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
you know shunting their data over to a heroku instance or something like that it's right there so there's no additional security concerns it is automatic using the built-in doku clone functionality and a bash script that is roughly 20 lines long very simple yeah yeah and i'm done by the way it costs no additional money you know in terms of infrastructure
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Now, I was pretty confident that the way to go was my dry rub. Sure. You know, you just have that feeling. Got some brown sugar in there. Got a little maple, right?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah, some of that's built into Doku, too, where you can, like, revert to different versions. But more importantly, let's say they say, okay, now we have staging, but we want, like, a super bleeding edge of what you guys are working on, instance. Sure. For, let's say they, like, I don't know, they want to add, like, a side module. I'm just...
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
They have not asked for this, but I'm just making this part up. That is only specific to like one division in their company. But we can have like the, you know, Jupiter Broadcasting video team instance, right? By modifying the script by like two lines.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah, and this kind of problem is like the thorny kind of like data, like am I messing with data thing that I hate to do? Because, you know, you're always ultimately responsible and you never want to be screwing around where you could like lose data or anything like that. But yeah, I really like this.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And again, I mean, you know, the wise men in Washington State and Florida, although I think I was in New Jersey at the time, you know, knowing about Docker, seeing those young promising lads before they made it to the Premier League.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
No, it was Cloud9, I think. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Right, because they were selling... They were like a platform as a service, weren't they, basically? Yeah, because their product was actually Docker, but they were selling it as... As like .something, right?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
.cloud. Was it .cloud? I thought it was .cloud. No, it's .cloud. No, no, you're right. It's .cloud because Cloud9 was the... Remember, we had them on too. They were like a VS Code in the cloud before VS Code.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
They have enterprise contracts, though. I mean, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're okay. They're doing okay. Yeah, right. Now...
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah, not to beat the horse here, but one of the nice things about using, you is it is platform agnostic, right? So a problem I know a lot of folks in the Rails community are having is Heroku, since Salesforce acquired them, has become super stagnant and expensive. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, and expensive. So it doesn't matter if you're on Linode, AWS.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
In fact, AWS is more than happy to take your money while you use open source projects. They're down. In this case, my customer is on Azure. like weird enterprise Azure. So it's fine. As long as you've got a Linux instance, you're good. Unless of course you're hosting an open source project that helps you make Docker containers of Mac OS.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Well, so I didn't grill these, to confess. I slow baked them. But still, came out great, right? Of course. The ribs come out. And it was as if piranhas descended, or dare I say gators, on both racks. First, they – and I said, why don't you try a little bit of the dry rub? I then went to tend to the sides. Half the rack of dry rub was gone.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I mean, I know a dude who runs a container for each of his consulting clients. Sure. Just like on his local, he never, he's a Python dev, and he just, he says, I don't want to, you know, he's using them for whatever, you know, virtual environment. But he says, I just put them all in their own container. That way, if something goes haywire, I don't have to worry about it.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And sitting there, dejected, was the messy as hell Sweet Baby Rays. Now, they were both good. But this goes to show fellow barbecue aficionados or the barbecue chieftains, I'd say, of our audience. When the kids whine that they want the boring thing they could just get at Chili's, just don't listen. I know. They don't know better. Yeah.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah. Also, I think the incentives are super aligned for contractors, many of whom might be working on like a fixed scope project where literally their margins go up if they can get it done faster. Yeah.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Because they're working in data science. They have like lots of money.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
They're serious. You know, Eric does a whole R show. He's evangelizing.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
That's not how it works in the States. They give you a day and they're like, show up or, you know. You're in a lot more trouble. Forget about parole, right? Yeah. In Florida, they just feed you to the gators.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I got to give our European listeners one thing. Their prisons are like less horrific than ours. Ours are like overly – especially for stupid stuff like – it's funny. Florida has made – it's on the ballot again.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
it's gonna win probably but like the medical marijuana law here is so thin it's like i'm stressed out they give you a card sure they give everybody a card and it's all these old bitties running around like these old driving around unfortunately driving around token uplifted right like holy crap and but but 10 years ago
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
They were throwing kids in jail for like two, three years just for possessing a couple marijuana cigarettes.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Oh, it's, it's, it's my experience. I mean, this is an anecdote, right? Is it's women of that demographic, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
That's exactly what I've been told too. It's they gave – basically they gave up their wine and wine is loaded with sugar and obviously alcohol.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Well, yeah, right. They're debating that law, which probably won't pass because it's an election year, the Child Safety – I forgot the acronym, but it's another internet regulation law. That would effectively force something like this where you'd have to have digital IDs to access.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I think the word they use in it is objectionable material, which, oh, the lawyers are going to make so much money trying to define what is and is not objectionable. Oh, yeah, right. Yeah, I mean, but everything's bad. Right. I don't know. Chris, I think you're probably more of a freedom warrior on this than I am. I just we're going to get digital IDs.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Can I break your spirit even worse? Yeah, sure. So the positive scenario you described isn't going to happen. Right. And going through the airport is still somehow going to suck, even though they know who you are automatically. Yes.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I've had a very similar experience. And my commercial experiences are also infuriating because the flight I most commonly take is a roughly two and a half hour flight. And yet, each way, I'm in security or the lounge or whatever. whatever for two hours. Right. Yeah. Which is for those of us who are, you know, proficient at math, almost as much time as the actual flight. Yep.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Oh, and now, because airline prices are ridiculous, a flight that used to cost me, let's say, five-something round trip, I'm paying like 800 bucks. And the seats, I mean, yes, maybe I got a little more portly, but I used, do you remember like not paying to have a bag? Yeah. Or how about like a complimentary drink or something? And I don't mean like booze. I mean like not getting shaken down for,
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
i guess you still get the drink but yeah depending on where you sit depending on the airline all these things change but the seats are definitely less comfortable uh you know it's just where business class used to be like reasonably affordable yeah and now it's effectively first class minus 100 bucks i yeah and slightly less nice food yeah but that's it right like i i don't know it's it's over 9 000 now i'm sitting here doing the math
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Okay, so this is a common thing that I've been reading from disgruntled younger iOS developers. So the reason Steve Jobs killed Flash was a battery life concern, and just like Antipathy, he felt that Adobe was making the iPhone look crappy. And... There is no case where Steve Jobs somehow being in charge still would be better for developers.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
The reason it took so long to get the App Store was because Steve Jobs was personally against it. He had to be convinced because he didn't want developers installing software on their phone. And the idea that he would be this evangelist for PWAs I think comes from the marketing and the truly good web standard support they did for the original iMac launch and for a few years after.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I know. I'm sitting in front of one that's doing weird stuff now for $1,500. I'm so happy.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I mean, well, if Jobs is still around, the Vision Pro doesn't even get out of, like, the first meeting with him. And he probably fires the guy who showed it to him, right? Yeah, I bet that's true. Yeah. I mean, you know, there's definitely differences. I would also add... I almost think him being around would have been much better for the Mac.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
It's funny because we're past it now, but the just horrendous error of the butterfly keyboard, which was, I'm sorry, but that was a broken product on the MacBooks and the MacBook Pros. It wasn't that I didn't like it. I forgot her name, but the journalist from the Wall Street Journal didn't like it. Joanna Stern. Joanna Stern. The damn thing was broken out of the box. Yeah.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And it wasn't something that like – It was a bad design. It was a bad design.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Right. And that's like – that is – I think Tim Cook is a – he's obviously a brilliant businessman. But he's too much of an accountant. Damn, a lot of shade towards accountants today. He's – I feel like they kept the butterfly keyboard because, yeah, it would have been expensive to turn the ship and be like, we can't use these because they're broken. Right.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I mean, saying something is going to be different, you know, five years apart is like, sure, right?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
The one before it? Right. The one they were using for like... The one they could have rolled back to. Or they could have just like... Like, I feel like there was a... You put it best, I think. An emphasis on product, but also like quality. Like the Vision Pro, man. That's...
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And how well the BetaQuest is doing relative to that market segment, which is a tiny market segment anyway. I don't know. It's hard to argue in counterfactuals, right? Because would there be a new whiz-bang Apple product? Well, it's tough. They're a big company. And they are on the quarterly game, right?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Like, okay, something Tim Cook handled really well that I don't think Jobs would have handled quite so well is when Warren Buffett and other – can we call them vultures? Can we do that? We're harassing him about stock price. He basically went – this is a real thing. He went to lunch with them and negotiated a deal where he would buy back a bunch of stock. basically making them rich.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Like, that is where Tim Cook is good. Tim Cook is good at, like, I could see Steve Jobs having a fit of morals about the Chinese government, right?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Or Johnny Ives leaves and you just like give his new design agency a massive contract and then press release. Johnny Ives is helping us out. Right.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Just real quick. It's like we shouldn't criticize Uncle Tim too much because the man is putting up the numbers.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
It also depends on which era of jobs, right? Can you imagine a younger Steve Jobs and Twitter existing? Oh, God. He'd be canceled, right? This is a guy who famously would scream at people, right? Actually, you know, I would say it would be problematic if Steve was still around because there would be so many... Yeah, times have changed.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah, I think we keep proving this false, right? You know, this is not the first time that people said, oh, development's going to die, right? I remember the battle days of, you know, everything's going to be Adobe, whatever that thing, not Air. It doesn't really matter, right? It's dead anyway.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Right, there'd be so many people leaking to places like The Verge or Joanna Stern at The Journal.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
woke well it's not even just current apple right the tech press of that time oh he's a temperamental little bit the little prick yeah but it's because he's a genius and we have to tolerate geniuses and that would be he's abusive he's toxic he yes i i to conversely elon in the 80s probably would have gotten a more uh sympathetic shake right so
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
But, you know, and all these other platforms were going to die, and it was no good, and you're screwed if you don't jump on the bandwagon. And I think we can say that that is not how that happened. I have two thoughts.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I mean, yeah, we were talking about this in our Slack, and I think it's... I was a little like, what the hell? But I was convinced that, you know, wine is probably the appropriate place for this to go. And better than just letting it die? Well, yeah, because there's going to be a lot of legacy applications that...
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
you know, that for whatever reason are difficult to port to, let's say, you know, the new .NET Core or .NET.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Go check out alice.dev for some automation ETL goodness. That's right. We can move data for you automatically from legacy systems.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I know many business types, let's call them accounting, generic accounting finance types. I'm sure there's an accounting podcast that would roast us for that. But see, we know our area. And basically, that's it. My mom is one of them. In effect, these folks are basically using Excel as a development platform. They just wouldn't call it that, right?
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
But it's like, they've got conditionals, they've got loops, they've got all kinds of crazy stuff going on. I think Satya is right. A little, God, it's going to be Clippy, isn't it? It better be Clippy. They should bring Clippy back.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
I don't know. But it's not going to wipe out the whole class of developers. I don't think. I just don't see it.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Yeah. So the idea is if you refactor just a very little bit, it's actually not that big of a change. To use this conditional API, you're going to save yourself money because I think everybody who listens to the show who uses AWS knows that Amazon charges for every goddamn thing.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
So every write, even if it's a redundant write, even if you're overwriting data that is the exact same data with the exact same data, you are paying for that.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Or if you're dealing with large assets like 3D files or something like that, you really want to... not be doing that. And I know a lot of folks, right, a good practice is to, you know, manually check in your application logic. But this basically does that for you if you implement this API. And I would care to wager it's probably more accurate and less error prone than a hand-rolled solution.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Also, it's code you didn't write that you don't have to maintain that Amazon's going to maintain for you. So, yeah, I like this. I would use this on my next project that involves AWS.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Now, I want to say I had to make two variety of ribs because the wife and kiddos protested at the idea of a dry rub.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Well, let me tell you about this drive-up, okay? Stay a while and listen to my drive-up story.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
That was great. Yeah, so my good friend Master Sephadeus came and was like, you know what we need? I'm like, no, what's up? And aren't you Darth Tyrannus? Spoilers, I guess, maybe. And come on. He's like, no, I'm not. Anyway, here's what you need. Doku apps clone. So I'm going to pat us on the back. I may break my arm doing this again, Chris.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
Do you remember we talked to that little stone company called Cloud9 that became Docker? Yeah. Nice. Yes. You know what, Mike? I'm kind of familiar with that. Yes. Well, called it. Still paying off in 2024. Doku, I mention it all the time, but if anybody somehow missed it, is a reimplementation of the Heroku Buildpack deployment API, whatever you want to call it, on top of Docker.
Coder Radio
586: Mike's Clone Army
And open source, which is the key thing. They do have a weird paid plan that you don't need to use because you don't need it. So I had a problem where I got a request that a customer wanted staging to literally mirror production data on a set amount of time. Now, everything's hosted on their own infrastructure. So it's one box.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
This is Coda Radio, episode 589, recorded on October 1st, 2024. Well, hey, friend. Welcome back to Jupiter Broadcasting's weekly talk show. Taking a pragmatic look at the art, the business, and all of the software development stuff out there. I don't know, probably the whole world of technology, you might say. I could probably say that. My name is Chris, and, well, that doesn't really matter.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Ultimately, any framework for effectively regulating AI needs to keep pace with the technology itself. I guess my question to you, Mike, is it seems to me whatever state that comes up with – well, that's not true. Really, it's California just because of where all the industry is.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
If California comes up with a state-level regulation, that's sort of de facto going to become regulation for much of the world since a lot of AI innovation is happening in California.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, we've seen this before with the auto industry, right? California makes some, you know, whatever, environmental law. And it's just cheaper to follow the strictest standard everywhere than have like different models of car in most cases. Right. I don't know. I was at first surprised that he vetoed this. But then thinking about it, this is a lot of money coming into California.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah. And he kind of signaled that he might not. He did sign some AI regulation that, you know, I think involves parody and actor use and stuff like that. But this, not so much.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I don't know. Do you think it should have? I mean, I feel like we're pretty early in the game yet on this AI stuff. And it very well could be a nothing burger.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Timothy B. Lee posted something that I thought put into words what I've been thinking. He writes, there's a lot of disagreements over AI regulation. It seems to flow from whether people expect AI systems to continue to be tools or whether they expect them to become more person like over time. I think there's two branches or two forks of, you know, futurism or doomerism about this one.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Like all they do, my stepson, all he and his friends do is play on the meta quest. It's crazy. They play this crazy game. I think it's called Ape Tag or Gorilla Tag.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And I think it's the one and probably you subscribe to is AI. Well, look, if AI just continues to be tools that we use, then it makes sense to regulate them the way we've always regulated tools by making sure they're safe and effective for particular uses. Like, you know, if you have AI in a driving car or something that does medical diagnosis, you know, or something that's used in hiring.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It's a tool. So what we often do is in that paradigm, when it's a tool like a hammer or a saw or whatever, we hold the people using the tools responsible if they misuse them. Right. So it may not be necessary to regulate the tools directly at all.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
But on the other hand, if you expect AI to become more and more independent agents with their own agendas, their own thoughts, well, then we probably need an entire new regulation regime to address that.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
If you've been drinking and watching The Terminator, yes, that's a whole different situation.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Well, that is what people are concerned about. The Doomers have come up with all of these concerns about, you know, misinformation and impersonating people and taking over things.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I mean, OK, so that's the question, right? So I would be curious on what your thought is. Do you think that we're anywhere near, let's call it, you know, five years to completely, I mean, basically Jarvis? I don't think we are, but.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
No, I think we're closer to autocorrect than we are to Jarvis or Skynet.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Right. I think we're closer to Clippy. That kind of works.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah. And I think what we're doing now is we're figuring out how much back-end compute we need to get something useful, how much we can layer it. Remember we saw that the pre-prompts for Apple Intelligence leaked and it's like, you be a good assistant, don't be offensive. We're starting to figure out how to massage these things and get the results we want. And so we're going to get them better.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yes, yes. You know what I'm talking about? Yes. My daughters love that game too.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
But it's still an open question of how good they're going to get. And they're very, very, very, very far from Skynet. And they're much, much, much closer to autocorrect on your mobile device.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So, I mean, I think we'll know that we're going towards Skynet when you have your first AI pursue a sexual harassment lawsuit. And it'll just bring up a history of all your chats and be like, this is what he said at 2 a.m. on Saturday.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I'm joking, of course, but if you think about these nightmare scenarios that people keep bringing up, you would then have to assume that, well, then you could probably piss the AI off, right? Yeah. I do remember when Siri came out, and then Cortana came out, Microsoft's shameless rebranding of a beloved video game character. What was the first thing people started doing with Siri?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Right. And he's always going on there and finding new stuff. And then my youngest, my little guy, it's the big hot item all the kids want. It just seems like somehow we're coming to a place where that is the type of game they want to play and the experience they want to have.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Oh, I can't say that. What's up, Siri? What do you think of Cortana? And for a little while, she would actually throw shade at Cortana. She'd be like, whatever. Whatever. And then they got rid of that because Apple hates fun. Or you used to be able to say, like, lewd or flirty stuff to Siri, and she'd come back at you a little sassy and be like, you wish.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And they got rid of that because I think there was a cultural change here, too. We're just trending towards boring, right? I wouldn't be surprised if, like, you know, with the weird exception of Grok, who, god damn, if you want any picture of Donald Trump that you could possibly dream. Grok will do it for you. Grok is down.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I have not tried Grok. I have not yet subscribed to Twitter. I have not.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I think they specifically, like, made it work better for political figures, and I don't know why, because I ask other things, and it's kind of... Maybe to draw attention. You can get it to be mean to you, which is, like... I forgot the name. There's another AI that basically takes your LinkedIn profile and just roasts you. Oh, that's great. Yeah, it's actually pretty good.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It's like, you know, the most, the meanest person doing a background check on you just solely based on your LinkedIn profile.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
You know, speaking of, you know, the first AI that's actually genuinely kind of impressed me. I don't know if you've seen these demos of Notebook LM. I was just trying it this week. Isn't that that truly? So quick recap, because I'm sure people probably know what it is, but just in case. You uploaded a set of documents, say like your research papers or whatever, and you can upload a bunch of them.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And then you kind of give it some direction and then it just starts cooking. And what comes out on the other end is a very realistic sounding podcast by two hosts. And I mean, I think most people would think, in fact, I played a little bit of my wife and then I told her it was AI and she did not catch that it was AI before I mentioned something.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I have a little bit of the audio just as an example here. Go ahead. Just so people can kind of see what I'm saying here.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It really is pretty good. And the person that did this little experiment uploaded a one-page document with production notes for the Deep Dive podcast. It just told them, oh, you've been AI this whole time. He generated this a few times, and this is the only time he got this kind of reaction. Other times they're more disassociated with it. But it really is – it generally impresses me.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Well, and when the Apple Vision Pro is $2,500 and the MetaQuest 3S is $299.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, but we're getting better in the really, really sad Steven Spielberg AI movie. Yeah, that's true. Spoilers. What is his name? Joel Osment was not, in fact, a real boy. And that's very, very sad. And now I'm depressed.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
To wrap up the bill, Clem, the co-founder of Hugging Face, posted, quote, this was a bad bill for the ecosystem and science in general, so I'm happy to see it vetoed by Gavin Newsom. Just like in software, we need to regulate the final applications and foster more open source science and open source to fight the concentration of power. So I agree with that. I think I take the tools view.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Oh, and from a development perspective for platform, there's no denying Quest is the leader, right? And under the hood, it's just Android, and it has great Unity integration and Unreal integration. So… Even if you're making a game or if you're not making a game, it's not hard to develop for. It also can do Android native development in Lay C++, the NDK native development kit.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And with the tool view, I think we regulate differently and we have a lot of laws already on the books that solve the problem. I think if you look at it as they're going to be independent agents, then you're going to need a whole suite of regulations. And I think then controlling the information isn't going to solve the problem.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
If these things have independent agency and they're out there creating misinformation that destroys our democracy, the solution probably won't be to limit information but to make even more information available. And so then again, I think the regulation has to be crafted very carefully.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
basically the god emperor the star of it all the star not just a regular man perhaps an alt man a sam altman who uh well he's had a really busy couple of weeks uh right after the show wrapped up he claimed that deep learning worked that super intelligence may be quote a few thousand days away and that astounding triumphs will incrementally become commonplace
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I just got to say this guy, his superpower is PR. For sure. Right.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Superintelligence is just a few thousand days away, he said. Superintelligence. And then, of course, news came out that OpenAI is planning to remove – well, actually they're planning to restructure. In fact, I thought – I think this is the clip here. I thought this Bloomberg clip actually explained and brought up a few questions.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
If you forgive their traditional news style format, they actually raise a few good questions in this clip.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So the rumors are that Sam Altman may get a 7% stake. In the shift for profit for open AI. And ironically, of course, Sam is on video multiple times saying he's not in it for the money. So you can find clips of him at a Senate testimony. Senator, I'm not in it for the money. And so now it looks like he may be in it for the money.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Absolutely. Yeah. So, OK, let's start. Let's break some of this down. So the CTO, head of research and the VP of training research all decided to leave on the same day that this news came out. So three high level people have been there from the beginning.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
No, don't spoil it. I'm actually going to watch The Godfather soon. Are you serious? I haven't seen it yet. I know, it's horrible of me. It's a wrong I'm going to write soon.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Okay, well, for those who have, yeah, that makes sense.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So this is really incredible. And then also news came out that Apple's not going to invest in open AI. And M.G. Siegler pointed out that ChatGPT is on the verge of rolling out to millions of Apple devices, iPads, macOS, lots of devices. It's not just like iPhone 15 and 16. It's also the iPads and the MacBooks.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
For the most part, those users seemingly from what Apple has told us are using the service logged out. They're not getting tracked. So they're not – I mean, I think there is a way you can link it to an existing pro subscription, but by default, it's using a logged out session.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So one of the bigger questions around all of this is the initial reporting is that Apple's not paying OpenAI for the usage. But you get a sense that like when you look at OpenAI's quarterly results that got leaked or something like that that just came out, oh, it was like an investor letter. Like it's pretty expensive for all these freebie searches.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It's costing them quite a bit of money because they're paying Microsoft for to run this on Azure. So OpenAI is going to be fronting for Apple since Apple isn't paying, and they're gonna pay Microsoft for Apple's usage of ChatGPT. And that probably made sense when Apple was going to invest in OpenAI, but now that Apple's pulling out, they still have to pay for the usage.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I think it's the winner, right? It's the Windows to, well, Apple's back because Apple's the other guy, right? And the field is only thinning. Microsoft just killed the HoloLens 2, which is sad, but...
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So OpenAI is giving another investor's money to Microsoft – giving investors money, others to Microsoft and including Microsoft's own money to pay for Microsoft services to run searches for iOS users.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Like with Apple pulling out of this funding deal where they were going to have – like they were going to fund and they were going to have a board member and they were supposedly talking billions of dollars. This seems like a really awkward relationship all of a sudden because you turn it on for a ton of users that are using logged out free sessions and Apple isn't paying anything for it.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I think the next step is Sam comes back to Apple and says, here's what you've cost us. You've got to pay up. And then Apple announces that they've raised the cost of Apple one, but it now includes Apple intelligence or you can pay for Apple intelligence on its own for like five ninety nine a month or something.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Well, you're going to be paying on its own. Come on.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Or probably it's Apple, so it's $9.99 or something.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah. You got to keep that – Chris, it's that red line. It's got to go up and to the right for services revenue, especially with the pesky Epic suing them again and the EU trying to – do you know how much they need that 30 percent?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Well, that's what's crazy, man. If you zoom out, Apple is going to have – at some point, they're going to have a check they owe OpenAI. They're probably going to stop getting money from Google because of all of the antitrust stuff going on.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And then it turns out Apple also had a deal. I'm talking out of school. I didn't bring it to the show, but I think it's with MasterCard or Visa. One of them is also getting sued by the Justice Department. And in there, it comes out that they had an exclusivity deal with Apple. to not allow other payment networks like cryptocurrency and things like that.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And they were cutting Apple a big check every year to maintain some of this exclusivity in Apple Pay. And that's probably going to get cut out too because of the antitrust stuff.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So their Google money is getting possibly cut. Wait. So what is it? They're paying them not to use other networks?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, I should have brought the story and prepped it for the show.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Because I know Goldman is trying to chew their way out of the Apple card deal.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Chatroom is coming in clutch. It is Visa. Oh, it's Visa. Because of the fee structure. And so I have the agreement right here actually. I did save it in case it came up. Visa has deals with Apple. This is a snapshot from the court paper.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
One of the things I noted about the Quest 3S is that they say 4.5x better resolution for clarity compared to the Quest 2 for mixed reality and AR. They're continuing to push AR integration through as well, and they're making the passer cameras better and better. So I think there's – like if you look at the platform options out there, it's –
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Visa has deals with Apple in which Apple agrees that it may not develop or deploy payment functionality with the aim of competing with Visa such as creating payment functionality that relies primarily on non-Visa payment processes or payment products. Apple is also barred from providing incentives with the intent of disintermediating Visa. So part of their little deal with Apple –
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I don't know the amount. OK. See if I might have it here. I don't know if I do have it, but it looks like there is some there is some sort of visa payments to Apple amounted to hundreds of millions of dollars in 2023 is what the court papers say. Oh, so that money is likely going to get cut out. The Google money is likely going to get cut out.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And at some point, they're either going to have to build their own search or they're going to have to come up with something there. Maybe Microsoft pays. I don't know. But also OpenAI is likely going to have to bill them for their usage of their users at some point.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I've got it. They lock down iOS such that it always does a big search unless you pay $50 a year to use Google. That's what they do.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah. And then kind of talking about AI and just where this is all going, it really seems that we've had this conversation around how much power AI needs. And I guess we're on a roll with clips. But before we get into the power discussion, because Sam Altman – Just made a big pitch to the Biden administration on a massive build out of data centers that are near nukes.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And Zuck was in an interview talking about AI hardware demands. And I just think about power usage requirements when he's talking about this here in this interview. I forget who this interview is with, but I'll put a link to it in the show notes.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
With this whole Horizon OS initiative they have, I think you're probably right that if you're looking at maybe getting, and I'm not sure if this is where you're going, but if you're thinking about maybe getting in the AR space, or maybe you just want to be prepared for that if it becomes an eventuality, this does seem like the one to bet on.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
You build out power. So what seems to be happening – if you translate what he just said there to power usage, they're not done yet. They need to build out a lot more. They need to really throw a lot of resources at this.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And so that's why companies like Microsoft are working with Constellation who has this – now they have this 20-year plan to restart one of the recently shut down reactors on the Three Mile Island, which this reactor has been going since 2019. These things are not cheap to get started. And so they go into this massive contract.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And I don't know if they're going to try to put data centers near that, but you know that's going to be a plan. AWS is hiring for a data center principal nuclear engineer to evaluate SMRs and nuclear fuel strategies. Apple has quietly updated their definition of clean energy in their marketing material and on their website. Nuclear energy.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
We're going to have to. So real quick, we should mention OpenAI is doing their Dev Days as of Monday. And I just have two things I think might be relevant to the audience. One, the new real-time API. I have obviously not get to try it because they just announced it while we've been on the air, basically. It is a audio to audio API, right? Similar to their audio features. That's pretty cool.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
But I think the real sexy one, and this is super boring, but OpenAI is not the cheapest API to use. ChatGPT, right? They have a bunch of new features where you can kind of prime it for your specific work cases. And I like this one better.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I'm trying to get the exact name of what they're calling it, but it's almost like siloing where you basically tell it what the area it should be thinking about is. to lower the computations it has to do, right? Because they charge you by usage. They saw AWS's model and they're like, what if we made it more expensive? Like, can we do that? So, yeah, it seems interesting that...
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Is that what kind of you're thinking for, not just talking about for your kids, but for yourself?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
They're almost acknowledging that to use their biggest, sexiest O1 for developers is just not viable cost-wise in many cases. So you've got 4.0 Mini now. You've got this way to... They call it prompt caching. Thank you. Prompt caching. Which is something that Claude from Anthropicus had for some time. But hey, we're not going to talk about it. It comes with 50% discounts on your tokens.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I don't know why. I'm assuming because they must be getting some epic savings if you do these cash prompt. So I'm sure they're saving more money. But yeah, it all comes down to power and cost. And I'm really interested... To see, are they going to have to raise the rate they're charging per, you know, they have a stupid token unit thing they do.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
That is my thinking, right, for even non-game applications, right? I mean, the game use case is pretty obvious. Who doesn't like to look like a fool playing Beat Saber? But also, I think it's hard to over overwrought how. Getting it down to $299 is a huge deal, right? Let's switch light pricing. So that, you know. Right.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
But like, it's basically per, you know, computational watt hour, right? Because it, oh my God, Chris, we're going into like actual like 80 sci-fi now we're charging in watt hours.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, I wonder if they have enough runway until this denser power comes on. I just doubt it. It seems like it's going to take years. So back to the nuclear thing for a second. Another nuke reactor on Lake Michigan has just closed a $1.5 billion loan to start. The reason why I mention that is because, first of all, this thing is going to produce power until 2051.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It will create 600 local jobs, 15 different trade unions in there. But there's only three reactors total that can be restarted like this, and these are the two of them now. There's only one left, only one reactor left that can be kind of restarted before we have to start building. So they can only grow so much and they may or may not be able to put data centers near these things.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
The transmission is still a massive problem. What Amazon is looking at doing and what I think Microsoft is going to end up doing ultimately is they're going to look at building reactors and data centers on the same land.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
The same land. Well, so a couple of things, right? They're reopening Three Mile Island. Yeah. So yay. Yeah. I'm actually all for that. And Bill Gates happens to own or be significantly invested in a reactor company. And to be fair, reactor, you know, it's not 1962. Reactor design has come quite a long way. And frankly, it works for the French.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
You know, this is one thing where the EU, I think, was doing a better job, although Germany did just shut some down. I know there's a lot of fear around nuclear power. It's kind of not true. I mean, if you want a fictionalized fun account of the scariest possible outcomes, there's that TV show Chernobyl. But to be honest, it's based on the truth, but it's, of course, dramatized.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
But the truth is actually even dumber. There was nothing really wrong. It was just gross corruption and incompetence. Again, this is Russia. Something, something. They have no tank tires. Just saying. So I know there's going to be a lot of people who go knee-jerk, environmentalism, whatever.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
If you look at it, nuclear is actually... It's so weird how it got caught up in the environmentalist movement as an enemy. My conspiracy bacon is I'm 100% sure they were being paid off by coal lobbyists.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Ooh, look at you bringing the coal bacon, which, honestly, tastes awful.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Where I'm originally from, let me tell you, there are coal lobbyists, and they got a lot of money to throw around, especially up in Pennsylvania. Yeah, yeah. So...
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
No, I'm with you. It always seems like it's a complementary thing. It works great with wind and solar.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Right, right. It's always in the game, right? Always. Clean burning coal. This is a Pennsylvania bacon from Scranton. So enjoy.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
No, I mean nuclear. I think nuclear energy and solar and wind, like it doesn't have to be just one of these things, right? It can be all of these things. It shouldn't be one, right? But data centers, especially AI data centers, are really, really, really power hungry.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I think one of the things you'll see them figure out is I would bet you, if we were making predictions, they're going to track the Bitcoin mining industry where they start doing methane capture for all the wells out there that are just off-gassing. Several Bitcoin mining companies, their sole existence now, is they go out to these sites where there's no transmission lines.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
My whole objection to the Vision Pro, it was a good demo, but it was, what was it, $3,500 or something like that?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So the oil companies are just venting the methane into the air, lighting it on fire and burning it right there, which dumps methane, which is the strongest greenhouse gas there is. The miners show up. They cap it. They run that into a generator that has like a 98, 99 percent efficiency conversion.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And then they mine Bitcoin right there on site because they have the Bitcoin miners in these containers like from the back of a truck that they just drop off depending on the scale of the operation. They put a Starlink or an LTE modem there. And the things just convert that methane off gas into Bitcoin. And then they can profit share with the oil company.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
or the owner of the land, or however the arrangement works. And I would bet you you'll see something similar with AI, is they'll work with these companies that have these methane off-gases that you can cap, you can run a generator. And the tricky part is you just need, in their case, you're going to need connection.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
But depending on what the stuff is doing, like if it's doing processing work, you might be able to set up an array of Starlinks, and you might be able to have an AI in a crate, sitting on a site that's capturing gas that doesn't have the transmission lines to go anywhere. That's interesting. And maybe help reduce methane emissions. I mean, they could get on that same track.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I thought it was, I don't know, too much. Too much. Yeah. And that's before you get accessories. Yeah, but you mentioned Microsoft this week announced they killed the HoloLens 2, which launched in 2019. Yeah. Microsoft does have a military contract, so they're going to be supporting the devices until 2025. So you got Meta's whole Orion AR platform with the Horizon OS.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Are they going to have to spring Sam Altman from jail to do this? You went SBF level crazy there. That was like, okay.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
You know, and his lady friend just got 24 months in jail.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Oh, man. And he has a new fun cellmate, I heard. Oh, is that true? Is that true? It seems wild. How could that be true?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah. Well, I tell you what, there's definitely a slipperier cell, if that's true. So we're talking about P. Diddy apparently is now Sam Altman's cellmate.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
You can't believe a thousand things of baby oil, or you can't believe that they'd be in the same cell. Yeah, the same cell thing. All right, let's look this up. Real-time research.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It just seems so impossible. What are the chances? I mean... Do they only have one celebrity cell? That can't be the case.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
According to Business Insider... And he is now hiring a lawyer who represents SBF. Look at that. Not only are they roommates, they're going to share a lawyer.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Worked out great for Sam, I guess. Wow. Wow. Today I learned. Four score and seven boosts to go. All right. We have some boos to get into. And Coffee or Death came in as our baller booster with 70,368 sets. Hey, Rich Law! Giving a shout out to Team Toronto on Matrix. So if you're in the area, head on over there. And if you don't know where our Matrix server is, you can find it at coda.show.matrix.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And then you'll find the Team Toronto room if you're in that area. He says, I hope everyone is safe and healthy. Remember, you didn't lose any good people over the week off. Or whatever it was I said last week. Things ebb and flow. Take care of yourselves in the community. We'll help take care of the rest.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I'm looking forward to the next episode when you're both in good places and have the space to think about The Coder Show.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Oh, thank you. Thank you, Coffee. Everything worked out fine.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I did see you busted out your – what is that battery pack that you have called?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
My Jackery baby. See, they should sponsor us. I'm just saying. I would agree. I love the Jackery. I love the Jackery. I have the baby Jackery. You probably have a bigger one.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It's totally right up my alley. It was on sale during whatever Amazon's thing is, just for the little guy. I ended up not having to use it too much. But just to keep everybody's phones charged and laptops charged, pretty good. You know what was weird? We didn't lose cell service. Oh, that's good. I was surprised. Yeah. So it was the situation where I could actually work.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Okay, Chris, you're going to make fun of me. I still have and pay for a Verizon. Remember the jetpacks? They used to call them.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, sure. Yeah. I just like it. It's a 5G connection. You got a backup. Yeah. And you know what? As long as you're not like futzing around on YouTube or anything, I can basically work with no interruption provided the cell service. So do folks know what these things are, right? Or is this too old?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
OK. And it holds a charge for like two days. So between that and just plugging in my MacBook, the literally half hour I needed to charge it up a little bit, which I thought was hilarious. The battery life is just great. I was able to, you know, do I mean, of course, I was not focused on work. Right. I was more worried about the hurricane.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
but I was able to do a quick maintenance thing I had to do on a server and just make sure, God forbid, there was also an outage. I could have responded to that. Luckily, there wasn't.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Especially if you have a business, I think it's worth having a backup.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It's worth it. I wish I had gotten a bigger one, actually.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Have you seen the Starlink Mini? It's just a little guy. You just need a clear shot of the northern sky.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
What if there's a gator flying through the air at the same time?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, I don't know. That can block signal. That can be a problem, I believe.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Microsoft announced that they were going to be getting involved with that. We speculated if that meant the end of days for HoloLens, and I think it does. I think this is – it's not that Microsoft's pulling out of this entire market. It's that they're going to get behind the Orion and the Horizon OS and the Quest stuff, yeah.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And he says, y'all triggered me on this one. I ended up as a high school Algebra 2 teacher after retiring from the Navy instead of going into coding. Thanks to Florida legislation, the schools are more like a prison than ever. Regardless of what time it is, all interior and exterior doors and gates have to be locked at all times if a student is on campus.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So my kids' sporting events, and of course my kids just started going to sporting events, just set in a whole new set of rules where you're not allowed to bring a bag in. You can bring a kind of like a purse-sized bag if it's clear, if you get one that's clear that they can look at. And once you are in the game, you are not allowed to leave or you cannot come back in.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So, you know, for somebody like me who might bring down our dog because it's going to be ours. And so what I will typically do is he and I will trade off and a couple of times during the game, we'll step out and go walk Levi and then put him back in the car. If you see me, the temperature's right. Make sure he's OK.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
What matters is our host. He survived. Mr. Dominic. Hello, Mike. You made it. I made it. Everything okay over there? Like, quite seriously? Like, everything good? Yeah.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And some places, you know, you know, for years we've even been able to bring Levi, you know, to watch on the side of the grass or something like. So it's anyways, it's not be able to go back and forth really stinks. And. my wife is a type one diabetic, so we need to be able to bring snacks. It's like, we've got to figure out something for the bag thing.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And all of this is supposedly in the name of safety, I guess, but it's, it's pretty bad.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It's just sad. I mean, it's just what I, it wasn't like this for us, right? You know, if you wanted to go to the school basketball game, you could just walk in.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And if you had to like pee, you could walk out. It's just, yeah. My kids' schools are like this too. I know I mentioned it on our last show. It's, It's funny. They put in metal detectors and they said they were temporary. They don't seem to be moving.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And now they're spending – I believe there's like a contract. So this is, again, corruption bacon. You know somebody is getting a contract to maintain this stuff. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So it feels like a not positive educational environment when it does very strongly resemble a – Prison. Minimum security prison. Right.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah. He also sent a row of ducks in. Side note, he's been wanting an Apple Fold since the first Samsung comes out. He'd like to see one, though, with the Apple Pencil. The Note 4 had one. That was the last Android device he used. He said he loved the stylus with that one.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Uncle Steve says, no, you have 10 styluses on your hand.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Man, I would love to see a Fold device that has pencil support.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I would, too. Yeah. I actually think it's a great idea. I would like to see a folding tablet.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, screw the phone. Make the phone as small as possible and give me a folding tablet. And if I want to bring the tablet with me, I can fit it.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
To be clear, we should probably talk about Horizon OS, right? It's basically Android. Good old Android couldn't ship a tablet if their life depended on it. But hell, they'll be the base of Facebook's new operating system. So, yeah.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I got to play around with a Samsung Fold again. It's nice. You want the folding phone.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Hmm. All right, we'll see. We'll see. Paul J. comes in with a row of McDucks, 22,222 sats. Things are looking up for old McDuck. Here's a little something towards Mike's new roof fund. Well, there you go.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, it's all right. Good, good. Nostromo, I think is how I say it, comes in with 20,000 sacks. Never tell me the odds. I have nearly four years worth of Huawei phones. The battery still lasts two full days. The camera is great, and the form factor is just perfect. Unfortunately... It no longer receives Android updates. I've been stuck on Android 10.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Apps like Slack started to nag me about the end of life a few months ago. So what does it take for me to change my phone? Well, probably just a few more decisions by tech leads. But how much time they want to invest in old Android versions, really. It's a shame that we live in a world where software dictates that when my phone is broken and not the actual state of the hardware.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
We haven't had a fun Android update limit in a long time. Yeah, that's pretty terrible.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, I think the situation's gotten better on Android, but still with specific devices and specific scenarios. I think I saw with the Pixel 9, Google promising seven years of updates. That's pretty good, but you've got to be on a Pixel and you've got to be using their branch and all that. I think they said 7. I don't know.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
If you go to the Verizon store, aren't they just handing you a Pixel when you walk in, though?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, I don't know. I think those ones, unfortunately, are locked, which is a bummer. Oh, nice. Torped comes in with 9,999 sats. It's over 9,000! Do either of you ever architect software with a particular... Diagram system. Circles, squares, polygons. What's your go-to? Do you ever diagram it? Oh, do you?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I sure do. Okay. So I use this great app. It's called Graph Paper and a Pencil.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I've tried. I have paid stupid amounts of money for all kinds of like native or web apps to do this. And I just keep going back to my old way in terms of shapes. It depends on what level. Right. So I do UML diagrams for like database structure schema. I stick more or less to the standard of what you would get in like your your CS 101.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, and I think it's going to serve them well because when you get into multi-application work modes, you're going to have Slack on there. You're going to have your signal and telegrams and element chats and all the stuff you use. So basically any Android app you need to get your work done, it's going to be usable in some sort of Horizon OS work environment.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
You know, I guess I would be on database design 101, but whatever. Right. Um, then if you go a level up, I actually, I shouldn't say this cause I'm going to make Adam way too happy. I've kind of adopted a lot of the event modeling and event sourcing kind of stuff.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It's annoying because I've been resisting it for years, but it does – one, it's a more clear, kind of shorter way to diagram it out than diagramming every single component. And son of a bear, it does work. Okay, Canadians, have fun. Enjoy.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
There you go. You know, I'm impressed at the entire world of diagramming software from really, really basic stuff, circles and squares, all the way up to something that tries to output some kind of code that you can consume. And I always see various versions in software demos. The amount of time that goes into doing that. It strikes me as, well, I'd rather just be making the app.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I mean, I found if you really, I really, like if I have to do a presentation, obviously I can't just like whip out my graph paper and hold it up to the Google, you know, Google chat camera. OmniGraffle is pretty good. I think it's called Lucidchart, which runs in Google Suite. It's not bad. So I know someone who is in love with Microsoft Projects. I cry when I see it.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Oh, yeah, man. Oh, yeah. I have lived that pain. I have lived it. Yeah, I know that one. Curiosia comes in with 10,000 sats. I am your father. Says you're spot on about what's going on with the kids.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I know a bunch of teachers and they all say that they can tell which kids have parents that are involved versus ones that are performatively involved versus the ones where the parents have totally checked out. FYI, the ones they hate are the helicopter Karen's. The kids are worse than the parents and the parents are terrible.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
But long way around, they notice more parents are completely disengaged and those kids seem to be suffering. Yeah, I think I've noticed that in the neighborhood, too, just with the neighborhood friends. He says, for the California AI bill, it would have ended up like the export control on crypto. The open source devs or groups will just move out of California. It's a cool story, Newsome.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
But get rekt. I live in Germany now. Yeah, you do see that. You could see companies moving out to Texas or whatnot. But again, if they're going to... Are you going to move all of Google? No.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I've got to say, I don't like this bill you passed, so I'm moving to Germany. It's a pretty hardcore move.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It's very rare that people can actually do that. It's very rare. Maybe Elon can and Joe Rogan can, but I don't know if Google could or Apple could. I don't think Apple would want to. There's that. I think they would just comply with the regulation. Some would, though. And some of the open source devs that are working at a smaller scale, yeah, they probably could. Alex Gates comes in with 10,000.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
You're doing a good job. The original Pixel Buds A series don't have conversation detection. The pros and newer do. Thank you, Alex. I've been trying to figure out why I didn't get that conversation. That seems like such a great feature. So I'm putting that on the wish list for Christmas. Appreciate the boost. The Immunologist comes in with 3,333 sats. Coming in hot with the boost.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Follow-up on the iPhone 8. I am running iOS 16. So far, I can update all the apps. Also, it has not become too slow to use, which seems to be some of the use cases with some of the other earlier Apple devices I used. But yes, I agree. The end may be near. Rocking the iPhone 8 with iOS 16. That's like vintage. Man, I day one installed iOS 18. I do that. Same with Android. I did too. Did you?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah. But the – it just – It seems like they're doing everything right. Now, I don't know if they're taking a loss on these devices. I would imagine they are. It seems like $2.99 is too low. But that alone, that's going to make the market, right? Think about it. You've got a kid, 12, whatever. It's Christmas. Christmas is coming. Hanukkah is coming.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
First couple of days, I had my launch board crash. Oh, really? Yeah, a couple times.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I also got the new cheapo AirPods because mine were dying.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I prefer the old shape. When I say my old ones, I had the OG AirPods. I like the old shape better, but I didn't have a choice.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah. Sohang comes in with 5,555 sats. Put some macaroni and cheese on there, too. He says that episode was too spicy for him. I forgot what it was that we did. Not the crumbling social fabric of America. I know. I don't remember. I don't know. Sometimes we say stuff that gets people all kinds of worked up, and we don't mean to. But we just also have to acknowledge that...
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I think one of the differentiating factors of Coda Radio is that we have a different way of viewing some of these things. And just about every other tech podcast has essentially the same take on everything going on. And we talk about stuff that – I think if you talk about it honestly, it helps you prepare and plan.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Right. You don't have to agree. Right. I mean, I listen to all the all the kind of, you know, whatever, bigger podcasts. And I don't necessarily agree, but sometimes they'll say something and I'm like, you know what? You're probably right. But change your mind. Good to have multiple perspectives.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And I do think it's not for everybody. Yeah. Yeah. That is true. Anonymous comes in with 5,000 sats. That's a Jar Jar boost.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Regarding the California bill, the way it targets open sources feels like an attack on the open Lama and Zuckerberg stuff. Here's Zuck discussing how open source will win in the long run. He links us to a YouTube video. Oh, yeah. I saw this one. Scott Wiener, the bill sponsor, is number three in the top donations from OpenAI in 2024.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
He's firmly supporting this bill, Representative Wiener.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Also, some of the other folks that I were funding that bill had ties to the Effective Altruism Group, which I'm not a big fan of what they've produced so far.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Really? You don't want to flip a coin a hundred times and half the time it destroys the world with the other half it makes it paradise?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, I guess. I guess. Yeah. I kind of am crazy. I guess. DPG comes in with 6,666 sats. The traders love the ball. Boost for my long email on the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board. Thank you, DPG. Yes. He says stay safe.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah. Well, we can tell, and we like it. We like it. Odyssey Westrick comes in with 4,444 sats.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
He was boosting our live testing, so we are now live in the Podcasting 2.0 feed, so you can just listen in your podcast player. And he boosted in, testing it out for us, which we appreciate. Thank you, sir. T. Cairo comes in with 10,010 sats.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Priority clearance recognition alpha one. Oh, that's a good one.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
The Windows kernel issue seems like something that could easily be resolved by Microsoft being required to develop capabilities that you can hook into the Windows kernel from an external vendor point of view. Yeah, I wonder if DTrace, like BHH pointed out, Microsoft cannot implement any security measures that would be considered competition to other antivirus or similar products.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yes, I know that is one of the restrictions. He says this. Then if they want to provide a reasonable security product themselves, they are running through the same loops any other company would. This provides a more secure environment for its users. So essentially, they could take advantage of the tools they create.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Right. Yeah, I feel like there's a missing piece I still don't understand. If the detrace mechanism would work for that and it's been available, as BHH says, then why would vendors like CrowdStrike do it any other way?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
$2.99 is in the ballpark of what you might buy as a gift and not rent your garments over.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Could it just be the simple solution of – Yeah, legacy, right? Like it's hard to make investments when you're not going to have some whiz-bang thing you could put on the box, so to speak. I don't know.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, why rewrite something that's kind of core to the product that's working, hasn't had a big problem, so many other things to focus on.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Well, I mean, who among us has not written like a for loop that they put a comment, we'll refactor later. But it turns out, you know, the for loop's fast enough and it gets the job done and your customer's asking for new features. They don't care about how, you know, that screen got populated. So I don't know. I just... I think it's just the normal trudging of software development.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Nothing can do that. Bobby Penn did. He says, I was testing out the live stream. It got me thinking, though. Could you all keep a stream going? Could there be an always on stream?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I thought you did. I thought you have like a JB live stream.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, you got it. JB live dot FM. You can put that in your web browser. And it's always playing old episodes. Now, he says, what would be nice is if I could somehow get the show notes with what's playing with, you know, connect to the 24-7 stream. That's not bad.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, I think maybe our Icecast host has an API where you could get the track that's currently playing and then maybe we could link that to the show notes. If anybody wanted to build that, you better believe we'd like to implement that. That's a great idea. But if you'd just like to tune in, you can go to jblive.fm and reruns.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It's also in the price range where if you're buying it for yourself, you could probably, you know, if you're doing okay, you could buy one for your spouse too because it's otherwise a very isolating experience. But at $299, maybe when you decide to pull the trigger, you decide to buy two and then you can do a lot of the co-op play together stuff and then it's not so isolating.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I think a couple of years worth of Coda Radio are on there, a couple of years worth of Linux Unplugged and some of the – really a lot of the old shows. It just kind of plays from current episodes back, just JBLive.fm. And then we break in with live shows a couple times a week. Listener Jeff comes in with a Jar Jar Boost, 5,000 sats. You're so boost. Testing out the live stream for us.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So thank you everybody who boosted in. We really appreciate it. This show right now, no sponsors. It is completely listener supported by our members and by our boosters. And if you'd like to support the show with a boost and send your message in, just send it above 2,000 sats. Booster on in and we'll read it here on the show.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Something like fountain.fm or any of the podcast apps listed at podcastapps.com. We had 31 listeners that were streaming sats as they listened to the show, so we stacked 17,750 sats just with the streamers. Then when you combine that with the folks that wrote in and boosted, we stacked 262,869 sats. Thank you, everybody who supports the show. Coder.show slash membership.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
If you'd like to put it on autopilot, I'll have a link to the annual membership in the show notes. And of course, with the new podcast app, not only can you now listen live to the show in your podcast app of choice, but you could also boost the show, support us directly with no middleman, and get your message read on the show. Thank you, everybody. Okay. That's just fun.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So before we get out of here, let's keep talking a little bit more about your buddy, Zuck.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I like that we're like bosom buddies now. This is good.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And a chain. Sweet. I think you could probably find a Zuck wig and just go all in.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, well, we're good. I mean, unfortunately, you know, folks in the area, definitely, there was some... Really sadly, some loss of life and a lot of damage.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Wait, is he going to make me go to the gym, though, to learn whatever it is? What does he do? Jiu-jitsu or MMA? Karate. I don't know. Oh, God. I don't know.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So I mentioned Orion earlier. I want to talk a little bit more about this. So this is an impressive set of demos that they've done. It's only demo hardware at this point, but it is actually quite good. And the technology seems to be kind of like iPhone levels breakthrough when the industry was still on BlackBerrys. I'll just play a little bit of Zuck introducing the devices here to set the stage.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So it's just, I think it's really important that you set that. So this is sort of maybe the bottom of the price. We're going to see probably other devices in different price ranges between this and Apple Vision Pro. But I think your earlier point is probably fair because I don't think it appeals to people our age and older. I mean, to a degree, but more as a gimmick.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So the puck goes in your pocket. It's totally wireless. They're using micro projectors inside what are bulky glasses. And they overlay AR apps in what are pass-through lenses. And they let tech journalists, quote unquote, use it. They let several people look at it. People are saying it's genuinely impressive.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
You know, they were kind of pre-stage demos, of course, but kind of going to what you're saying, maybe it's not a giant face computer, but it's a pair of AR glasses that have a computer in their pocket. Maybe that computer is their phone. Maybe it's something else. This seems like a platform people would actually be willing to put on their face because it's not snow. It's not snow goggles. It's.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
more like sunglasses. And again, it's not a shipping product, but it's pretty impressive because they've also paired it with a wrist strap that is watching the electrical nerve signals in your hands and using that to interact with the UI in the Orion environment. And so instead of having to do hand tracking or have controllers, this wrist strap is
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
is watching your nerve system, essentially, your pulses in your nerve system, and interpreting that as gestures in the UI. And that is going to get used in all kinds of metaproducts. They've been teasing this for about nine months now or so, this product that you could use with the Quest or now with these Orion glasses.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And so they have this whole system, the wireless puck that goes in your pocket, the glasses with the integrated battery and display, the wrist strap that watches your nerves. It's kind of, I mean, it's early, but it's kind of like, it's kind of a leap, I think, in this technology.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I think we're going to get there, right? I listened to the whole interview with him, and the problem seems to be, which it always is, right, that the prototype is like 10 grand.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So, but that's just how products are designed. They're always too expensive.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Didn't they say they made like a thousand of them or something like that?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, they have like a whole group internally who's using them. I just want to say that very lucky for Zuck that the buddy holiday glasses came back.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I think in an office place, this is way more acceptable than goggles that actually cover your eyes.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Exactly. And when you forget to take them off at the bar and go to the urinal, you're less likely to get punched in the face. So that's a plus.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
You know, I actually think it's equivalent, some equivalency. It's not as, not as going to be as easy, but AirPods...
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
really stood out these white airpods that everybody wore were you know really kind of unique and then as time has gone on like when you go to the airport almost everybody has airpods or they have some kind of you know headphone system you know big old bulky like noise cancelling headphones and we've completely normalized people walking around downtown
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I don't think it has the actual sticking power that it does like it does with the kids. I think for them, it's like the next obvious step up from a phone. They're not going to go to the computer. That's like old, right? It's weird. It's slow. My kids have laptops, but they also really like VR, and they definitely prefer their mobile devices over their laptops.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Wearing either AirPods or big, you know, headphones. And I don't really think it's much different than that. It just goes over your eyes. But as long as you can still see them, they can see you and you're just pulling up ancillary information. I think this could be socially acceptable. I'm not saying it should. But in a way, it's kind of better than looking down at your phone.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It's more socially acceptable than looking at your phone all the time.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yes, it makes it easier to pretend like you're listening to somebody when you're really just scrolling Twitter. I agree.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I can see your glasses are flashing. Are you listening to me?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Oh, my God. You're going to have kids taking them to school, putting, like, tape on the light so no one can see.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
But we're really getting a sense of what they spend all that R&D money on. You know, like... I think that's why they're showing this off is like, Hey, here's some results that we've got. And by the way, vague AI implied integration here that's going to be gangbusters, right? They can do that too.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
He said in the interview that he did with The Verge that, you know, he made a bet that the AR stuff would happen before the AI stuff and he was just wrong, right? So that, you know, they really are killing it. I was not a quest believer before, but yeah, turns out if you just stick with something and iterate on it, you can actually get there.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
A little acquisition news. TMB Mad Botter has been bought by Meta. No, I'm kidding.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Gosh. Well, I guess I'm not really saying that we're going to see these in a year or two. But five years? Five years? I could see it. I don't know if the problem is I just don't think I want Meta to be the company I buy these from.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Well, you don't have a choice, Chris. This is... So, okay, the bad part. Zuck kind of thinks he's Augustus, you know, the Caesar. Yeah. I've noticed. I've noticed that vibe. He's walking around in custom t-shirts with weird Latin phrases on them. There's definitely a kind of imperial thing going on here. So, you know, I...
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Do you think this is their iPhone moment, as some of the tech press are putting it? No, this is not going to be an iPhone moment.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It has to be shipping, right? So, one, it has to be shipping, right? You could just leave it there. It's not shipped. And we should remember, when the iPhone came out, it initially wasn't gangbusters, right? One, it was too expensive. Well, we have to go through the history of the iPhone, but... Didn't have a keyboard. Didn't have a keyboard, which was a huge dig on it, right?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And actually, it didn't have the fastest cellular antennas for the first generation or so.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And it was on a shitty carrier called Singular in the U.S.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah. We'll see. The problem for the Zuckman is by the time he can get this down to where it's a viable commercial product that people might be able to afford, what else is going to happen in the industry?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Right. And now they've sort of tipped their cards. People are going to be working harder on their solutions.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Or maybe they won't copy this, right? Like you mentioned the AirPods. What about, and they're kind of getting there with the new AirPods Pro, but how about we run the AirPods forward five years? Do they become your AI interface?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Well, they definitely could become part of the controller input. You know, like they have the new shake the head to accept or reject notifications and interact with Siri. It seems to me that the AirPods are actually just perfect for more sensors, temperature sensors.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Things that you could feed into the watch for health information and stuff that you could feed into a VR slash AR environment for position, for head tracking, for acknowledgement of notifications without actually having to move your hands. Yeah, I think they have to go that direction. And I think they're uniquely positioned to integrate all that stuff.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And I wouldn't be surprised if we did see our kids and younger start to really take to this as a primary computing platform, especially for work, because just experimenting with it, I can see where it's at today at a ground level. This is before they've made a lot of the improvements and changes in new hardware. It's already getting pretty usable.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I'll tell you, I am strongly considering buying a second pair of AirPods just because I, one, got the cheap ones, and two, to have two. I hate not having my AirPods. I use them all the time around the house.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
You should get the pros and tell me how the conversational awareness is.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
my problem with the pros is I hate the soft padding on earphones. Cause my ears are, this is a little gross. My ears get very waxy and that soft padding kind of gunks up. Sure. So I, if they made them in the hard, I don't know what they call that. Just, you know, the, the part that goes in your ear, right. Just, just like they do with the regular ones.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I would be more interested, but I do like that conversational awareness stuff. That is really, that does look cool in the demo.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, I'd love to know if people have tried that with the AirPods. Sounds like it's pretty decent with the PixelPods. Boost it and tell us. I guess also I'd like to know, we didn't bring it up directly in the show, but since we're wrapping up, my question would be, how do you feel about big tech leading the restart of the nuke reactors? It's going to be fine.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Well, I can imagine there's some people. I guess to me the concern would be, would you rather this was a state-run initiative or a private company-run initiative? It seems like both would have pros and cons. That's really what I'm asking. Write in and boost it and let us know. Mr. Dominic, where should people find you throughout the week?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
You could go check out alice.dev for all your automation and ETL needs.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
alice.dev, I think I will. You can find me on the Nostraverse if you like. You could just go to chrislas.com. I'm also chrislas on WeaponX. I don't really tweet there much, but I do respond if you tweet at me. Links to what we talked about today are at Coder.show slash 589.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Of course, you can also just get our RSS feed and listen in your podcasting app of choice when we're live or after we release. Our contact form's also on our website. If you would like to join us live, we'd love to have you in our chat room. We do it on Tuesday at noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern. You can go to Coder.show slash live for that. All right, that's it.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Coder Radio program. See you right back here next week.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, I think we're going to get there, right? I mean, I'm just looking at my workstation here. I have my 27-inch 4K, whatever it is, monitor. I have a mechanical keyboard that's louder than a dog barking. My laptop. It theoretically all I would need is one visor. I get effectively unlimited screen real estate. Right. Yeah. Multiple windows.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I'm glad we took time to prepare. You probably have it down by now, I imagine, for the big storms coming in.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And I guess I could still use the physical keyboard, but I'm sure there's a way around that, too. I don't know. We're not there yet. Right. But it's possible.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So Mr. Nick gives us real time. It is it is thirty five hundred dollars new.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I think where I got twenty five is I just checked on eBay like a few days ago just to see.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Which is terrible. Are they still on the Vision Pro for $2,500 now? Maybe I saw it for that.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
That's a hell of a loss. $1,000 off retail just came out.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
$2,700. The 256 gig used. This one must be bad. Oh, it's not a buy now, but it's going for a current bid of $1,027.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
OK, but they think that'll get bid up, I'm sure. Probably, yeah.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
In various price ranges, but I actually see several on here for $2,500. Huh. Yeah, that's not a great – that's not a typical value to hold for Apple. All right. Well, we got some feedback this week. BHH wrote in asking if there was any interest in the community in developing applications and applets for Cosmic.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
He says, I'm currently working through the process of creating an applet for it with no documentation on how to get it on the panel or panel settings. I'm about 75% of the way there. I did manage to get it in the panel. And I'm wondering if making a tutorial on it would be worth it. So I guess boost in or write in and let us know. I wonder if others are looking at Cosmic.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It seems sort of trivial to talk about it, but did you see... That your buddy Zuck is really trying to get your business? Not only did he try, he succeeded. Oh, did he? Did you pre-order a MetaQuest 3S? I sure did, just before the show. Wow, really? Really. So, okay, why? What made you decide the MetaQuest 3S is it again? Because you've tried the Quest 2 or 3, I think?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I recall we used to talk about this when new Linux desktop environments were coming along. We would ponder if their toolkit and all that was worth the investment of time. But we have kind of just – with the rise of web applications, we've kind of just let that go, I think.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I mean I would even say like is anybody other than like very large professional applications or weird glass menagerie style, pet it because it's beautiful, indie Mac developers – One or two still exist. Let's not be that sad. Is anybody really developing desktop apps now? I mean, everything I'm doing is, even if I wrap it in, like, Electron or something like that, it's just a web app. I'm sorry.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And we're all just going to live with it. I'll just buy more RAM. It's fine.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
RAM is very, very cheap. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, all right, let's see what I have open right now. This is a fun game. I have Slack, which is Electron. Discord, which is not even trying to hide that it's Electron.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Airmail, that's one of my... Okay. That is a precious native map.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Native map, yeah. You're in the Matrix chat, so you probably have Element running, which is... Element running.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Electron. Chrome, which is looking at all the other Electron apps and being like, children.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Everything the sun touches is my kingdom, is what Chrome is saying. It's the Mufasa of repressors.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
preview but that's because i had to review pdf before this uh okay yeah and the stuff that that mac just opens right like yeah oh man i don't know why every time i'm working somehow the icon for the tv app pops up it's like you could just like watch uh something else like slack off for an hour but that's it of the apps i voluntarily put on this bar They're almost all electron.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
It's horrible. And the only one that's not is obviously Chrome, but I would argue, you know, it's Chrome. And Fantastical, which, again, is one of those precious Mac apps I bought a long time ago. Yeah, it's not cheap either. It's not cheap, but if they try to move me to that subscription model, I'm probably not going to do it. I don't care. I use my phone for all that stuff now.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And to be honest, because I use Gmail, you know, Google, whatever they call it, Google... Is it Google Work still, or is it Google Suite?
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
G Suite now, okay. Yeah, their web calendar is actually really good.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I'm disappointed, but I know. Sean wanted to give us some follow-up on something like eBPF for Windows. He says, you know, Windows actually has DTrace. He says he does believe that CrowdStrike could build something that uses DTrace to trap kernel syscalls and inspect behavior inside the kernel.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
He said, if I were Microsoft, I'd be working to build an entitlement into the kernel capability system, which would allow use of DTrace for certain signed pieces of software. Right now, if you enable DTrace, it's enabled for the whole system, and it's fantastic for bug hunting and hacking. Yeah, good old Brandon Gregg, right, in DTrace. That is a great point.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I forgot that Microsoft had ported that over, and I didn't realize that companies like CrowdStrike could take advantage of it.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Windows 14, okay, so we're going into the future, although the way they name things, who knows, is going to be a Debian-based Linux distribution with a modernized Windows user shell on top of it.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
All right. I mean I would be – I don't think I'd be too surprised to be honest with you. I don't think I would be.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I think it makes a lot of sense, right? Unless they have so – they're afraid of legacy and they have so much – but they're getting there. They're weirdly getting there, right? And they're showing such little care for the legacy Windows applications that are on there.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, that's definitely accelerating. I've definitely noticed that.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Yeah, like just use WSL. You're a developer. Have fun. It's fine.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Well, I've got a couple of quick announcements for you. Number one is we finally have an annual members program for the Jupiter Party. Some of you have been asking for a way to subscribe annually. So this is for all the shows. So you get the Coderly, you get the extra feeds for Linux Unplugged, you get the self-hosted post show and more.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
But also, when you sign up with the annual plan, you get one month for free. We just take one month off as a thank you for becoming a member annually. So I have a link to that in the show notes. I don't have like a special URL for it yet, but I know some of you have been asking for this. So it's here now. You can support all the shows on an annual membership basis. We really appreciate that.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Now, announcement number two. Coder Radio is now live in the Podcasting 2.0 app. So if you already have a Podcasting 2.0 app or you've been wanting to try one, now, before we go live, we'll have a pending item in your library. So you can see, oh, yep, the show's going to be, it looks like Tuesday this week at noon Pacific. Okay, great.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
So yeah, I have it too. Kids play with it. You know what it was? I think, Chris, there's a generational thing here. You and I, I mean, I think we get it, right? Like what it does. But these younger kids, I'm talking like preteens, you know, that like come to my house and all that kind of fun stuff, you know, friends of kids, right? Yeah. they love it.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And when we actually go live, you'll be able to hit play right there in your podcast player and just tune into the live stream as we're doing the show. Or as I'm doing the pre-show or the post-show, whatever it might be. It'll be right there now in your podcasting 2.0 app of choice. We are lit, as they call it, which is the live item tag. It's pretty exciting.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And all you need is a new podcast app at podcastapps.com. Well, last week we talked about this pretty aggressive AI regulation bill in California. It had some good bits. It had some kind of harsh bits for open source. And it appears that Gavin Newsom has vetoed SB 1047, citing concerns of burdening AI companies.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
The bill's broad application and its potential to hinder innovation while not actually fully addressing all the risks of AI. He cited multiple factors in his decision, including the burden the bill would have placed on AI companies.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
Quote, while well-intentioned, SB 1047 does not take into account whether AI systems is deployed in a high-risk environment, involves critical decision-making, or the use of sensitive data. Instead, the bill applies stringent standards to even the most basic functions, so long as a large system deploys it.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
I do not believe this is the best approach to protecting public from real threats posed by this technology." He says that the bill would give the public a, quote, false sense of security, saying, quote, So he's kind of saying there, like, You know, some of these smaller models may be the problem, and we don't think this addresses this enough.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
And I was concerned that it does – it burdens the open source developer too much with all of the having, like, hire somebody to audit stuff on an annual basis, et cetera. And Newsom is still open overall to regulation. He says, let me be clear. I agree with the author. We cannot afford to wait for a major catastrophe to occur before taking action to protect the public.
Coder Radio
589: Blame the Tools using the Tools
California will not abandon its responsibility. Safety protocols must be adopted. Proactive guardrails should be implemented. And severe consequences for bad actors must be clear and enforceable. I do not agree, however, that to keep the public safe, that we must settle for a solution that is not informed by empirical trajectory analysis of AI systems and capabilities.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
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The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
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The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
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The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
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The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
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The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
Honestly. You're cutting corners. I admit it. My gift for the white elephant today is in a gift bag.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
You're asking this the day of the holiday party. I love holiday parties. I like celebrating a year that was, even if some places it's difficult. It's kind of like, hey, we made it through. It's a time for optimism. I like... gathering with folks. I typically don't. We spend a lot of time with one another here and we don't spend a lot of time away from the office together.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
You said care deeply, and certainly in pockets, people care deeply, but I'm not one of those Panther fans that gets super defensive. We're building. There are plenty of reasons why this was a struggling hockey market, mostly on ownership after they moved into the new building. This is the first sustained run of excellence from this franchise. ever.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
They've had outliers, a little flash in the pans, won a cup appearance in 1996, didn't do much with that momentum, moved to a new place. They had one year where they win the Atlantic and then they kind of disappear and fall off. So this team with its young core.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
I think, look, This franchise, had it built on the momentum of 96, we'd probably see something a little bit closer to Tampa, which is just one of the best hockey towns in the country. But that's not our story. And people want to make fun of the parade while it's raining. I look at that and it warms my heart because of where this franchise was.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
We are so far beyond where we were, and we're still building. And I think another Cup run will just keep building on that success. And Roy, I'm curious your opinion, not just because you're wearing a Panthers jersey and you love hockey and you have the hockey show, but you've been there through the lean years. And this team...
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
with its stars because it's been a pretty transient franchise it's not often that you have guys stick through several years guys like barkov who've been here who've grown into men who's he's still a young man but he's been here over a decade a guy that wants the sardom that wants a platform wants to grow the game like matthew kachuk these guys are building a connection with this town in ways that hockey teams only did in 1996 for a fleeting moment
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
So to be able to have a drink and lighten the mood and listen to some music, exchange some gifts, it's a great time.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
It's a weird way to judge this. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Maybe even the Dolphins? No, that's never going to happen. Look, it's still difficult to walk into a sports bar in at least Miami-Dade County and find the TV on a Panther game. It's becoming more commonplace. You don't have to ask for it as much. I occasionally go into sports bars and they have the sound on for huge games.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
I think it's building and a little bit of self-awareness. There's no way hockey ever matches the NFL in this town. But it did in Tampa, and they built on success over there. So it's not impossible in this state, but just as a market demographically, Tampa is much different than the Tri-County area down here.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
That's a bit of a pipe dream, but it certainly challenged the Miami Heat in terms of local interest.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
that was happening the panthers had been eliminated from their bubble but i would say that yeah like dating back to three years ago the panthers if they were on at the same time the panthers would would get the sound we're going on an olympiad now where the panthers have usurped the the miami heat in in my opinion and the miami heat have had two two well two real deep runs uh two finals appearances uh in that time but the panthers have also had two finals appearances i
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
I just love the team. I love the connection with it. I love the sport. I think if you compare them in direct comparison with one another, they're going in opposite directions, the Miami Heat and the Florida Panthers.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
No doubt. When he blocked Jason Tatum at the rim, that was Miami versus Boston. And Florida was out of the NHL playoffs in their bubble. No doubt. I was more of a Heat guy then, I guess. But in the years that followed, keep in mind, that was a while ago. I've become a Panther guy.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
Yeah, I don't think they've wrestled the 10 away. I still think hockey down here, in Miami-Dade County especially, it still has a way to go to even catch this fledgling Miami Heat incarnation across the street. It's still got a way to go, but I'm super fine with that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
I'm super cool with this really exciting time down here locally where you get to build on something and you bring more and more people to the tent. More and more people get introduced to the sport. There is nothing like
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
playoff hockey and i think optically too you see the ratings for the nba they're down the nba has a problem my chief problem with the nba i'll wear it is that i don't like this miami heat team i don't they're not interesting to me i'm sick of it i don't want to watch them anymore
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
In Mike's defense, he has been telling me this for years. Like,
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
That's a fine. He has a checklist.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
I mean, there is a cultural disconnect between, you know, Hispanic Miami Dade and hockey. It's just not, you know, they're more geared to baseball and football and even basketball down here. Hockey, they've never had a reason to care, and thankfully this franchise is giving them a reason to care. It's just, you know, they are most certainly Broward's team, and they lean into that footprint.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
Hopefully one day they can revitalize an area because their stadium's kind of out there near the Everglades a little bit, but it's not impossible. Look, Look, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have been a really successful franchise. They have two Super Bowls in the last 25 years. They're often in the playoffs. If you go to Tampa, the flags hanging outside people's homes are blue and white.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
That is a hockey town.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
Well, one of the things that I think will be huge for their growth, because I'm sure they have all sorts of meetings and they bust open the books and they realize we have so much room for growth in Miami-Dade County. How do we get there? The reports are accurate. There is a winter classic coming to South Florida, coming to Lone Depot Park. next season. That potentially might pit.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
A lot of the fans out there might suggest it's going to be Florida against one of its main rivals. It'd be great if it were the Tampa Bay Lightning because you get to draw from that market too. That is a huge moment in time if this Panther organization can keep that momentum going and it crescendos with this huge event down the street over there at Marlins Park.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
That'd be really cool because that's the first time hockey has come to Miami-Dade County since they left.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
But people still watch the sport. They're not checking out on the Dolphins. You listen to local sports talk radio. People are irate because they care. Why? Because the product is really good. So I do think that there is a small faction of hockey fans out here that will support the team through thick and thin, like I have, like Chris has, like Roy has. Like I have. Like you have.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
But people need to be clued into the fact that this sport is just terrific to watch. They need to be brought into the tent. They need to go into a bar where the sound is on and people are locked in and you're living and dying as a puck crosses a blue line every half second it feels like and your season is hanging on the edge of a blade. It's incredible. There's nothing like it. It's infectious.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
But I do love the location. It would be a location that I'd probably be at tonight regardless because there's a huge Panther game on, and this is my favorite bar to watch hockey. The Wilds? Kaprizov. Kirill the Thrill Kaprizov. Take the over. One and a half points every game. This guy should be the Hart Trophy winner.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
That's how you build fandom, though.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
Hey, folks, it's Mike Ryan. The holiday season is upon us. Christmas is coming next week. So what are you doing for it? I imagine you're going to have some family over. How do you entertain the family? How do you keep everybody happy? Well, I know one easy way. Make your holiday time Miller time. Bring out a nice silver platter of that beautiful white can. Or bottle whatever your preference.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
Heck, do it on draft. As long as it's got that beautiful amber color and was Triple Hops brewed, you know it's going to be a hit. Why? Because Miller Lite has tastes you know you can depend on. No games, no gimmicks, just great beer for people who like beer. You'll take a sip, look around, see your family, and know you immediately made the best decision possible.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
Because Miller Lite is brewed for taste. It hits different than other light beers. Simple ingredients. like malted barley for rich, balanced toffee note flavors in the iconic golden color. The original light beer since 1975, and still the best one. Making memories at year-end gatherings? Tastes like Miller time!
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
Go to MillerLight.com to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Light pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Fewer calories and carbs than premium regular beer.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
An unbelievable player that we're not going to get to see in the Four Nations Cup because he's Russian.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
You had your run with Primetime Media Group. We had plenty of Broward days.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
That's not true. We like it responsibly.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
Please stop. Responsibly. Thank you, Mike.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
Not with this sponsor. Figuratively.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Florida Panthers The Biggest Thing In Town?
It's heartbreaking. Everyone wants a cute little one, and they have the 13-year-old.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Not really a representative sample. You're basically counting on Cooper Cup. Mike Allstott dropping it at the goal line. And quarterback sneaks.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
I mean, Jalen Hurts. Most of the white guys are scoring from like an inch out. They don't have the time to drop it before the goal line because they don't have 80 yards.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
It's Cup. Oh, McCaffrey. Well, they haven't done it. It's the two-guy sample. Ricky Proll. That's all I had. God, you didn't have anything.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
And it checks out. He's definitely white. That's a long time ago.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
I'm still scared, yeah.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Yeah, it's a bummer for a 10 that way. But I watched part of the show yesterday trying to make light of Miami's season. It was a good season. It was a real good season.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
I understand that. But like I said, don't get me started on it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
You're really trying to get me started, and I said don't.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
I'd rather lose it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
OK, you got me started on it. My whole thing about the Pop-Tart Bowl is Jess is right when she says it is supposed to be a prestigious bowl and that it's supposed to be the top ACC team that's not going to a CFP game. And if this was a seven win season, this was an eight win season. Look, last year I was all about the bad boy mowers pinstripe bowl. All about it. You can lean into it's a mean bowl.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
It's a bowl that exists for memes and the teams that are playing in it are used as punchlines for the toasters and the Pop-Tarts. And it's just when you come that close to the CFP, you see the bowl game that is most active making a joke of itself on the Internet. It's just kind of like a bummer.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
I feel like I make fun of the team. It's too fun.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Just give me an old white guy in a royal blue blazer handing me a normal-looking trophy and saying congratulations on your season. That's how you actually stick out these days. You've got to dump mayo. You've got to dump potatoes. You've got to dump coffee. I get it. It's all fun and games for everybody.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
But if this is supposed to be one of the more prestigious ones, how about we stop making fun of the teams that are in it? Mm-hmm.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
I'm good with the gimmicky ones for, like, bad teams. Right. For, like, teams that are just eligible.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
No, I understand that. And that's a sick bar, dude.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
I'm jealous. I'm jealous. Other teams get to go to a normal, like, holiday bowl. Give me that. Their whole thing is like, are they still Culligan? Give me that. What about the Wasabi Fenway Bowl? That one seems fine. Two college basketball programs playing in a baseball stadium. That's what I like.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Oh, no.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
It's often with Schusen, who you've said is your dear friend. I love Bob.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Kind of feel like the map would be all over the place then, no? It'd be. It'd be like A1. It could go anywhere.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Y9.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
What do you think that cat thought he was doing?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Get that cat out of the way if Sugata has a blizzard. I'll tell you that right now. D4. Remnants?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
everybody it's mike ryan and i'm super excited to talk to you about roan this is a great company i was introduced to them a couple years ago i thought everything that they made was super comfy and looked great and now they're aboard and i'm wearing one of their shirts right now and i'm getting so many compliments on it as seasons change so should your wardrobe roan's commuter collection combines comfort versatility and breathability with premium pants shirts quarter zips polos and blazers each piece is made from roan's signature stretch fabrics
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
With wrinkle release and anti-odor technology, keeping you fresh and polished all day. With Gold Fusion anti-odor technology, enjoy more wears between washes. Designed to coordinate effortlessly. And let us talk about the freshness, because this is a big one, especially living down here in South Florida for me.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
They make it easy with machine washability and collars that maintain their shape for life. I cannot tell you how huge that is. The Commuter Collection's wrinkle release technology works as hard as you do, making every piece perfectly packable for travel. The commuter collection can get you through any workday and straight into whatever comes next.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Head to Roan.com slash DLS and use a promo code DLS to save 20% off your entire order. That's 20% off your entire order when you head to Roan.com slash DLS. When you head to R-H-O-N-E dot com slash DLS and use code DLS, it's time to embody your most confident self.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
It feels like you're trying to steal this segment away from Tony by making it Royce's top five.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
He's proven worthy of that contract. He's a good player. Is he ever going to be confused with the best in the sport? No. But can you win with him? Absolutely. I hope they do because it'd be a really great story for him. This guy was playing defensive end on scout team for the Carolina Panthers. Crazy.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
No doubt. No doubt. This guy's big sin was to play through an injury and maybe could have been a little bit more professional about his time over there, but they shoved him out the door and replaced him with Deshaun Watson.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Sorry, we wrote them all. There are no more Royce Top Tens. Is Dwork going to be there?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
And for a team that was struggling for 20 plus years to find a quarterback, for them to have one, for them to have one who was runner up in the AP Offensive Rookie of the Year, said all sorts of passing records as a rookie, won a wildcard game at Pittsburgh, made Ben Roethlisberger all sad. That's the stuff that you were dying for. as a Browns fan, and you couldn't wait to push him out the door.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Hours after he flew into town.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
That lands so harshly to Carolina Panthers fans as both of them excel.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
I've asked people on the know, independent of the injury, which is, I think, a huge part of this, which made him play worse, which if he's not playing worse, then you don't open the door to him leaving. But by all accounts, it seemed as though Baker's time at Cleveland was at an end. There were divisions in the locker room. He had worn out his welcome. He was at a different point in his career.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
But you could make a quick evaluation on Baker Mayfield. In retrospect, he was really good as a rookie. He wasn't as good when he had Freddie Kitchens, one of the worst head coaches of all time, as his head coach in that second year. Really good his third year, wins a playoff game.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
And in his fourth year, he battles through multiple bad injuries and tries to tough it out, which affects his performance. You could look at the first four years of his career and say, I can explain why he's bad. And I'm pretty confident this guy is good. That's what I kept saying as it was happening. I did not want Deshaun Watson. I wanted to keep Baker. I was team Baker all the way.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
I didn't want to replace him. While other people were saying this team is just a quarterback away, no, they're just a healthy Baker Mayfield away.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
You're the one that keeps pushing this Rose thing, and you keep saying Lucy. I think you're the biggest Rose guy here.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Does Tony want to say it now too?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
What's in Vegas?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
What's in Vegas?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what's going on? Is there a show in Vegas? Is there a show in Vegas that she goes to?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
It's a toy drive. Back up Chris's judgment here. Do you want to go to it again? Hey, folks, it's Mike Ryan. The holiday season is upon us. Christmas is coming next week. So what are you doing for it? I imagine you're going to have some family over. How do you entertain the family? How do you keep everybody happy? Well, I know one easy way. Make your holiday time Miller time.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
It's not even west of the Turnpike.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Bring out a nice silver platter of that beautiful white can. Or bottle whatever your preference. Heck, do it on draft. As long as it's got that beautiful amber color and was Triple Hops brewed, you know it's going to be a hit. Why? Because Miller Lite has tastes you know you can depend on. No games, no gimmicks, just great beer for people who like beer.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Take a sip, look around, see your family, and know you immediately made the best decision possible. Because Miller Lite is brewed for taste. It hits different than other light beers. Simple ingredients. like malted barley for rich, balanced toffee note flavors in the iconic golden color. The original light beer since 1975 and still the best one. Making memories at year-end gatherings?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Tastes like Miller time! Go to MillerLight.com slash stand to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Light pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Fewer calories and carbs than premium regular beer.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
I mean, there's a Topgolf west of it. Now, after that Topgolf, it's the Everglades.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Football season ended in Syracuse for me.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
It's like more of a car PEZ dispenser. Really? Huh.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
I'm always curious. The logistics of a Carvana.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
The 17th time you asked her to pronounce Luigi's name, you didn't do that?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Let's not vamp on this one.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Less inflatables somehow.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Yeah. There's a silencer technique. And also, you're not in control of how much water is in the bowl. If there is a bowl that has less water in it, you're probably going to want to go closer to D2 range.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
You go corners.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
You want it to cascade off the side and it limits the sound. You can also sit.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
I mean, you guys are all like, all the ladies are like J5, right? Yeah.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
Yeah. Well, I guess my mistake. H5. F5. Huh?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
E5.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
What if it's a public restroom?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Zach Charbonnet, Baker Mayfield, and The Toilet Grid
I think it's OKC.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Dan, we dug ourselves out of that awkwardness, and we're giving Tony a shine. Not to throw it back in his face and have him spiral.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Tell Dan about the 40-burger, Dan.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Tony, number two. And later we're going full circle.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Well, that was a joke.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Now it's his turn.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
I think I just ruined it. We'll play the game later, though. Jeez. Hey folks, it's Mike Ryan. The holiday season is upon us. Christmas is coming next week. So what are you doing for it? I imagine you're going to have some family over. How do you entertain the family? How do you keep everybody happy? Well, I know one easy way. Make your holiday time Miller time.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Bring out a nice silver platter of that beautiful white can. Or bottle whatever your preference. Heck, do it on draft. As long as it's got that beautiful amber color and was Triple Hops brewed, you know it's going to be a hit. Why? Because Miller Lite has tastes you know you can depend on. No games, no gimmicks, just great beer for people who like beer.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
You'll take a sip, look around, see your family, and know you immediately made the best decision possible. Because Miller Lite is brewed for taste. It hits different than other light beers. Simple ingredients. like malted barley for rich, balanced toffee note flavors in the iconic golden color. The original light beer since 1975, and still the best one. Making memories at year-end gatherings?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Tastes like Miller time! Go to MillerLight.com to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Light pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Fewer calories and carbs than premium regular beer.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
They have that look, Tony.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
They're selling Rose now. Sorry, we've moved on.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
And that's very convenient because you can just pull up to that location, and it's in a mall. So if you don't have a toy with you, walk in the mall, grab a toy, and bring it to Vivo.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
That Packers who's who performance actually paved the way for the Rams to host a playoff game and beat anybody.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Baby, I can tell you that I'm pissed they hit Rose with the spray. Oh, she sounded like a goose who stepped on with heels. Yeah, even though Rose wasn't due, it's Harry and Lucy laughing.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
She's like, you're not going to believe this. We're going back to you. You're going back to another pageant.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
They ran it back? I did this once before. O-L-I, O-L-I, I have a top five.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
She got me. The rare. I haven't seen Miss Congeniality 2. I'm sorry.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
I took a guess that they decided to repeat the formula, the wildly successful Miss Congeniality 1. And I missed the mark. For that, I apologize.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Okay, but I saw you two... You sure there isn't a beauty pageant? Because Sister Act 2, back in the habit, was kind of, like, different, but also similar. In that she was still a nun.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
And he faked it. I'm like a dog with a bone on this one. There's got to be some sort of beauty contest.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
There has to be a pageant somewhere.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Yeah, there has to be a pageant. Maybe she's one of the judges at the pageant.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
No, not at all. No, I'm telling you, there's a pageant in this goddamn movie. It's Mike's favorite American comedy. There has to be a pageant. She's got the whole pageant sash.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Do you know who you're speaking to? There is 100% a goddamn pageant in this movie.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
So everyone's in the car singing one song and she's just doing Florence at the top of her lungs.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Yeah, he hit it off of Skinner. This is a complete play. Reinhardt's a great two-way player. Doesn't get the attention because he's on the team with Barkov, who was out... by the way. And this was such a huge win because the Oilers came in red hot, five in a row, scoring over five goals a game in that five. And they flatly don't lose when they score over five goals.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Panthers haven't been shut out again. The usual part of the calendar where they dip, they go down two goals and you think it's over. And then they have this incredible performance. And that is how you fake something without having watched it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
I definitely didn't give up on that game after they went down two goals. Definitely didn't.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
I'm totally good with the wizard should be a Jeff Goldblum type. So Jeff Goldblum playing himself. I didn't have an issue with it, but I get what you're saying. But I also was a wicked virgin going into it. I love The Wizard of Oz, but I'd never seen the musical. And I came away blown away by it. And that's exactly what movies should be.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
It felt like a throwback, not just because it was a musical, but you had these practical sets being built, and it took you to another world without this weird greenish hue of special effects clouding everything. It didn't feel like a Marvel movie. It felt like these were things that were rooted in real tangible things, and I loved it. Any other Wicked Virgins around here?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
That was a terrible Boston.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Wicked virgin? You called it wicked. Yes, I did do that. What they do in Eastern Europe.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Travis Homer's a bear? Oh, you can have a long career if you're good at special teams. Good news for Estrepo.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Can you be worse?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Yes. There you go. Now you get it. Be worse. Yes. Thank you.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
I think she nailed it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Good.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Frank Catalanado. Yeah.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Come visit her at the Flanagan's in Coconut Grove and drop off a toy. Don't just visit her. That'd be weird.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
When Sue can't even say it, it's tough.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
That's where we earn the points.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Bring your cash. Bring everything you have, okay? I think Rose just unplugged the decorative thing behind Tony by mistake.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Rose just unplugged something that does not belong to her at Flanagan's. Oh, Jesus.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
She's got it, man. She really does. We were trying to force it, and we probably fell on the wrong side of it, and then she's just organically making magic on her own.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
This is her segment now.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Podcasters got to take our word for this one.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Oh, my gosh.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
This is great. All right, Tony can come back. All right, Tony, come on back. She's legitimately pleading for help.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
All right, sorry about that, Tony. We have to look out for our guy.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
This is when you want to get hurt.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
It's about to circle the wagons.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
There's only two weeks left in the year, so... He has to have MCL surgery. He's out for like six months. Well, he can achieve all things through Christ.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Pat McAfee says the Bucs can beat anybody. They can. They can beat anybody.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
And they've beaten the Lions at full strength. They've beaten the Lions. They've beaten the Eagles.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Big Suey: Top 5 NFL Teams You Don't Want To See Come Playoff Time
Today's episode is sponsored by DraftKings. Stay tuned because you'll hear more about DraftKings and all it has to offer throughout the show. DraftKings, the crown is yours.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Dan Le Batard Show Toy Drive With Cuban Santa
The window to the walls. We all heard that, right? Till the sweat drops down my balls.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Dan Le Batard Show Toy Drive With Cuban Santa
All these females crawl, singing all skeet, skeet goddamn.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: The Dan Le Batard Show Toy Drive With Cuban Santa
Late this year. That's correct.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
Not before one last episode airs. A tribute to Tony. And then we just do what we're doing right now. On loop.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
Who gets the ball first? That is the answer. Because if he gets the ball first, He's got a chance because Meech hasn't played in how long? A long time. Right, out of shape and everything. Out of his mobile. And Tony's a good shooter, so also he gets to step back and take Meech out of his comfort zone a little bit. True. But if Meech gets the ball first.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
But that's assuming that Meech gets the ball first. If he doesn't miss. I'll tell you, Dan, I'll tell you a story. My buddy Andrew Schultz, years and years ago, challenged Jay Williams.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
I do like the whistling sound of the cartoon bomb dropping. Coyote? Yeah.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
and I will still beat you. And sure enough, Schultz got the ball first, he missed, and then what I told Schultz was gonna happen is exactly what happened. Jay Williams, you think of him, oh, he was a point guard, he's not doing any of that. He's taking your ass to the block and boom, boom, boom, layup, every single time. So he scores six straight points like that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
On the seventh one, because he wanted to be disrespectful, he said, I'm a setback, And as he's dribbling, he throws the ball off of Andrew's head. Off the easy. Hard. And the funny thing was, Andrew, after maybe his first or second bucket or whatever, Totally spent. This is a guy who plays pick up all the time. After two buckets of Jay Williams just ground and pound, he was done.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
He was like a boxer. He had jelly legs and everything. But throwing the ball off his head woke him up somehow because Jay catches it, perfect rhythm, puts up the shot, and it rims out. and Andrew grabs the ball, and now he's energized. His pride is in there. And he hits him with his signature Hezzy dribble, puts up a bullshit shot that bounces and bounces and bounces and drops.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
He ended up winning, but it was not because He could guard or he could beat Jay Williams. It was because Dave Williams had hubris and he wanted to disrespect him on top of John Do you have hubris?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
So also, funny, funny, funny story. I once played pickup ball with John Amici. You don't remember this. This was years and years ago at Arizona State. You were in town.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
And so we played. We were on the same team. And it was great because, oh, I've got this NBA player. Man, he's passing the ball a lot. That's great. Like, I thought you were going to shoot every time, but you didn't. You also shot almost exclusively jump shots. Yep. Right? But then we were on different teams. And so I said, this is what we're going to do.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
We're gonna put, you're gonna put me on the worst offensive player. And then I was just hard double every single time. And for me, it was like, this is the pinnacle of defensive execution. And for me too, it was like, I just wanna get a workout in. Just run up and down the floor.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
Dan, this is the old line from Airplane. You try dragging Walton up and down the floor for 48 minutes and then get back to me. Like, this guy's running around with Shaq and these guys. You think a 10.0 on the treadmill is real hard? No, but a 10.0 for an hour at this size.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this was my defense all along. There is no shortage of people that I've played basketball with in my life that you know. Some of them NBA players, some of them NBA coaches, some of them are NBA media. Oh, come on. If I ever shot like that, hit him with name drop. I didn't name drop anybody. There are no names. No names. No names.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
Does it not make you feel slightly queasy when you watch it, though? No, because I took it and I made it into something even greater. I did. I made a video that went crazy viral.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
I don't know. That's the whole point. The whole point was, before that shot, Meech, I'd shot three or four from that same spot. Oh, you can't do that. No, no, listen to me. Let me tell the story, right? All right, all right. This is like the fourth or fifth shot from that spot. I'd made all the other ones. The guy who recorded it was like, oh, that's cool. Amin is draining these shots.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
Let me get a video. The first one I shot after he stopped recording is that one. And he said, oh, this is even better. Performance anxiety. I didn't know. I didn't know until after the game. This is before the game. I found out after the game, he said, you haven't checked Twitter, have you? I'm like, no, why, what happened?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
And I thought it was because there was a turnover late in the game that I made. I was like, yeah, it was a dumb turnover. He's like, oh, it's not about the turnover. I'm like, oh, then what is it about? And then I saw that, and that's when I realized. It's about that mad shot right there. How's that behind me?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
there. As I watch it, I always think to myself, I think I was trying to get it back. Like, no, no, no, come back! You know?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
No, you know what? I'm going to stick up for the audio audience and say that's unnecessary. Let's play Tony again.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
So this is the part that I'm curious about. Kanye West was pretty much always that person. Now, he's gotten way more off the beaten path as time has gone on, but many people who knew him 20 years ago, 25 years ago, like, yep, that's who he's always been. And we just didn't know the mass public, right? Or we didn't get the full grasp of it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
Was Aaron Rodgers always like this and we just didn't know?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
So that's my question, though. Some people change. Legitimately change and unravel or whatever. Did he unravel or was he always like this and he just had a great facade?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
of a crackpot. John, I'm curious because, again, you work with a lot of people in this regard. What is the long-term impact of the pandemic? I feel like people change. That thing changed people in a way that I didn't feel impacted. It sucked and it was a boring time and a scary time. But I don't think about it much now. And I feel like me in 2019 is pretty much the same as me right now.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
But I feel as I go around, I see these videos of people freaking out on airplanes and just acting a fool in public. I feel like the pandemic changed something in people, like on an emotional stability level. Do you experience that or is that just kind of anecdotal?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
Dan, you said Ricky texted you that. Is that Ricky Martinez who gave the gift yesterday?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
Well, I just felt, because it was yesterday, that it wasn't that inside. Now, if it was a month later, then no one remembers that. But it's still fresh in the minds of the listeners. All right. Thank you for your contribution to me playing Hurt.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 1: Aaron Rodgers Enigma And Tony's Nestling
I was just saying that, well, there it is. That, ladies and gentlemen, is an Ethan. That's the size of one Ethan. So we described the skydiving instructor.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Yeah, you did. But were you drinking? High-sticking.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
To not get hit by a car.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
I can beat him.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
That's the Don Miguel.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
How long were you out of commission? Like, that looked like it hurt. Oh, it hurts now. Yeah, so on the heels of yesterday's discussion, just know that that happens routinely in a hockey game, and they come right back, and they often score goals.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
It was great. But if Joel Embiid had suffered your injury, he'd be out for three months.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
How many of these minus do you get? Even A's tone was very good there. Excellent tone. Also Joel Embiid. But I was laughing a lot because, no, Joel Embiid's super soft. It's a fact. But every time I watch Stephen A. Smith, I just marvel at how good he is at this. He's incredible. He's incredible. He's got papers in front of him, but he's reading it better than anybody in the biz.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
That was as insightful a take on Joel Embiid that I've heard. And I'm not speaking for Sixers fans. I'm just speaking for myself here. I truly don't resent Joel Embiid for being hurt. He's dealt with a lot of legitimate injuries. I think where the resentment comes from the casual sports fan, the casual NBA follower is, I resent you for sitting out to avoid getting hurt. Because he does that a lot.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
There's a huge chunk of this percentage where Joel Embiid is not on the court because it's a part of a maintenance plan. And I think Stephen A. kind of spoke to that in that, OK, but you sit out to avoid getting hurt, but you're just going to get hurt anyway. So just go out there.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
I also watch him play, and I know his proclivity to get injured, and I wonder aloud, then why are you flopping around throwing your huge frame on the floor? Why is this a part of your game? Because it is. It's an annoying part of Joel Embiid's game.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
If you're so susceptible to injury, why haven't you eliminated that part from your game, where you embellish to get calls because you're a gigantic guy falling on the hardwood?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Hey everybody, it's Mike Ryan and I'm super excited to talk to you about Roan. This is a great company. I was introduced to them a couple years ago. I thought everything that they made was super comfy and looked great and now they're aboard and I'm wearing one of their shirts right now and I'm getting so many compliments on it. As seasons change, so should your wardrobe.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Roan's commuter collection combines comfort, versatility, and breathability with premium pants, shirts, quarter zips, polos, and blazers. Each piece is made from Roan's signature stretch fabrics. with wrinkle release and anti-odor technology, keeping you fresh and polished all day. With Gold Fusion anti-odor technology, enjoy more wears between washes, designed to coordinate effortlessly.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
And let us talk about the freshness, because this is a big one, especially living down here in South Florida for me. They make it easy with machine washability and collars that maintain their shape for life. I cannot tell you how huge that is. The Commuter Collection's wrinkle release technology works as hard as you do, making every piece perfectly packable for travel.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
The commuter collection can get you through any workday and straight into whatever comes next. Head to Roan.com slash DLS and use a promo code DLS to save 20% off your entire order. That's 20% off your entire order when you head to Roan.com slash DLS. When you head to R-H-O-N-E dot com slash DLS and use code DLS, it's time to embody your most confident self.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Everyone knows the deal. You are a grandfather. You co-founded the company.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
that's i mean good lord yeah i don't have to be able to move i could yeah anyway you got to be able to move is it fair to say that steven a who often represents the voice of sports fans it's why he's popular there's just such a joel and bead fatigue this it's the story with him and that's cool like he i i do consider him a brandon roy sometimes the body just begins up but this is this is a tireless exercise and also just i don't like how he plays i don't like his attitude
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
I don't like the Sixers.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
But it's been that way since we've ever started having company parties. That's just always been the policy. Like, I walked into it, and I just assumed that there were no plus ones. And then I saw Izzy broke that rule, and I was like, oh, damn, this is going to be a fight. So it wasn't.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Oh, I thought that was like a shoe. I thought it was like twerking.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
And in closing, I think another thing that Joel Embiid falls victim to is, okay, you have this frame that's susceptible to injuries. A lot of the Philly frustration is, then why don't you take care of your body more? Because his conditioning is constantly under scrutiny because You're always unhealthy. Why don't we change up the conditioning plan? Why don't we do something different?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
And he seemingly hasn't, to at least the casual sports observer. They have no evidence that he's doing anything about it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
It feels like a straw man. That's not one of those finesse teams. Everybody knows. Straw man. That's been Tennessee's identity for a long time. They may not be good, but they're going to be tough to play because they're a tough team.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Dan, if I may, isn't the implied gambit that we understand they're tough. They're playing football, a game of real estate acquisition. But by comparison to other teams, they are soft. And if that is indeed the gambit, then it's a fair accusation.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
I guess I've watched football long enough that I think I can tell which teams are tough and their identity is we are more physical. It's something that you know when you see.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
You're asking a European big from the turn of the century in the NBA if he was considered soft?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Hey folks, it's Mike Ryan. The holiday season is upon us. Christmas is coming next week. So what are you doing for it? I imagine you're going to have some family over. How do you entertain the family? How do you keep everybody happy? Well, I know one easy way. Make your holiday time Miller time. Bring out a nice silver platter of that beautiful white can. Or bottle whatever your preference.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Heck, do it on draft. As long as it's got that beautiful amber color and was Triple Hops brewed, you know it's going to be a hit. Why? Because Miller Lite has tastes you know you can depend on. No games, no gimmicks, just great beer for people who like beer. You'll take a sip, look around, see your family, and know you immediately made the best decision possible.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Because Miller Lite is brewed for taste. It hits different than other light beers. Simple ingredients. like malted barley for rich, balanced toffee note flavors in the iconic golden color. The original light beer since 1975, and still the best one. Making memories at year-end gatherings? Tastes like Miller time!
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Go to MillerLight.com to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Light pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Fewer calories and carbs than premium regular beer.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Roy had more shots than the Minnesota Wild had in the third period.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Dan, we were all talking before the show, and we all agreed. Last night was a quintessential Matthew Kachuk performance.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Just two goals, you know, mixing it up, getting shoved and cross-checked immediately after scoring. What a special team this is. Because, as you mentioned, Minnesota, quite good. And that's not usually a spot where the Florida Panthers have a lot of success, Roy.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Holden Kirill the thrill to under one and a half points, an achievement in itself.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Yeah, yeah. That one hurt.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
We can talk CFP. He's a little worried about the sayings.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
I'm also very dry because she's extremely dehydrated.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Novel concept.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Yeah, I don't know. Like I said, grandfathered in. I walked in with the expectation that there were no plus ones because ever since we've been a company, there have been no plus ones. So it wasn't even a topic of conversation.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
But it's Izzy's first holiday party, so he had no idea that this was the rule.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
That just doesn't sound right. You co-founded this company. How is it your first holiday party? That is weird, by the way.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Did you just think nobody could make it? Man, they all couldn't make it. Wow, what a coincidence. Nobody's partner could make it.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Except Dan. Totally fine with that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
Yeah, no. He's a co-founder of the company. He gets to bring his wife. We're good. Thank you for the bar.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
What do you mean by here? I saw an IG from him where there was a turkey vulture on his balcony here at the Elser, and I don't think he made it. I think it was huge.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
You know a great moment from last night? Because, yeah, some of you guys were doing the shotskis with tequila, which is insane. The pickleback is the greatest shot known to man because you take your shot of whiskey and then you immediately hydrate yourself with pickle juice. Now, Greg Cody, I happen to know, loves pickles and pickle juice. He had never had a pickleback in his entire life.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Are The Titans Soft? Feat. John Amaechi
In his 215 years on this planet, he had never indulged in a pickleback. And I ordered him one. And as soon as he knocked back the pickle juice instantaneously, wow, where has this been my entire life? It was just an incredible moment.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
So not quite the same with the never-ending possible. Toyotathon's his thing. I'm going to need when the McRib is back. All right.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
My issue is not that he's trying to sound young. My issue is that we haven't said hella for 20 years.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
And when Dollaritas are back at Applebee's. Okay, Dollaritas. Can we check back in?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
I feel like I would have thrown a flag every time. Hella.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Brady, too. Yeah, Brady, when he inevitably comes back.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Hey everybody, it's Mike Ryan and I'm super excited to talk to you about Roan. This is a great company. I was introduced to them a couple years ago. I thought everything that they made was super comfy and looked great and now they're aboard and I'm wearing one of their shirts right now and I'm getting so many compliments on it. As seasons change, so should your wardrobe.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Roan's commuter collection combines comfort, versatility, and breathability with premium pants, shirts, quarter zips, polos, and blazers. Each piece is made from our own signature stretch fabrics with wrinkle release and anti-odor technology, keeping you fresh and polished all day. With Gold Fusion anti-odor technology, enjoy more wears between washes. Designed to coordinate effortlessly.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
And let us talk about the freshness, because this is a big one, especially living down here in South Florida for me. They make it easy with machine washability and collars that maintain their shape for life. I cannot tell you how huge that is. The Commuter Collection's wrinkle release technology works as hard as you do, making every piece perfectly packable for travel.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
The Commuter Collection can get you through any workday and straight into whatever comes next. Head to Roan.com slash DLS and use a promo code DLS to save 20% off your entire order. That's 20% off your entire order when you head to Roan.com slash DLS. When you head to R-H-O-N-E dot com slash DLS and use code DLS. It's time to embody your most confident self.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Daniel Day-Lewis does something. I see that photo of Daniel Day-Lewis looking like Lincoln before he's about to start filming Lincoln. And you know what I do? I mean, Stugatz. I jerk off all over myself. That's what I do.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Today's episode is sponsored by DraftKings. Stay tuned because you'll hear more about DraftKings and all it has to offer throughout the show. DraftKings, the crown is yours. What is the stat? Wait a minute. You guys said Brady.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
No, I was joking. What you saw on my face, I was shell shocked. What an unbelievable stat.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Venmo bucket is presented by Venmo. Nice. And it's been a longstanding issue here. No one has cash anymore. Sugatz always conveniently plays that card. Well, now we have the Venmo bucket presented by Venmo.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Man, Tom Brady's pretty good.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
You can debate Flacco, but he's not a starter anymore. He's under 35? Well, no, I'm just saying he did it when he was under 35. No, but he's saying that. It's currently, basically, like. I'm a little confused by the premise.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
this is this is not i wouldn't mind it is not for me too many people moralizing it too many people that don't know the dynamics of their relationship maybe they're totally fine with this maybe they have an arrangement you don't know the lives of professional athletes get out of there yeah yeah i was gonna say the thing that reminds you though for travis hunter it reminds you of
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Here, Val, you wore all that and a bag of chips.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
That was an affront to production. You don't want a Tyler Herostat? No, but I do want how Jordan Love performs when the McRib is back.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Once again, Saturday is presented by Miller Lite.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
How about when McDonald's has a Monopoly game?
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
But it was for the Spoh thing, so it's like hockey. It's a delayed penalty.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Well, these kind of symbols do pop up. It's curious to see cable news, how they talk about Luigi. That's bad vigilante justice. But coming up next on Hannity, Kyle Rittenhouse. So we do prop up vigilantes. It's just a matter of the crime and the cable news network that you're watching.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
But I think we all have to be super careful around this because this is different because he's representing a cause, a cause that most people in America have all been affected by being denied a certain thing, having to pay out of pocket, being frustrated with their insurance. So you have to...
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
this requires some tact and considering he's becoming like a cult hero this is not a good idea giving him a joker perp walk with the mayor behind him and everybody trying to get in the photo this is just making it more of a myth and that's not a good thing counterpoint
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Is he Bane? He is in that prison.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
An alleged body count. But I think it was misguided. In the effort to play the political game and everyone cheesing for the camera, dude had off-white Jordans in the photo. Did he? Yeah. Not him. Hella dripped out. But in this effort to present law and order, New York got this bad guy.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
They're kind of playing themselves because, again, people are gravitating to this guy, and you're helping build a myth when you're doing that thing. He had a fresh cut. Like, how did he get that done?
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I have a theory, and this might sound bonkers to you, but everybody that I've floated this theory to, their initial reaction is like, what are you talking about? And then they kind of see it. So we say this was an alleged murder. He's not even really denying. We know what happened. We have video, right? So how do you go into a trial?
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Well, if this guy has a cause, my theory is, what if his defense is self-defense? I got him before his policies and this healthcare system got me. Now, it's going to be a difficult trial just because everyone feels some kind of way about healthcare. But if that is his defense, he actually gets to make the trial the showcase and put the spotlight on his cause if he argues that as his defense.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
But if he didn't have United, then it has nothing to do with him or the guy that he murdered, right? I think if he's speaking about general health care and an alignment among health insurance companies, I think this defense allows him to do seemingly, given what we've known, what's been published, his very clear feelings about the matter.
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If he goes down that road, he at least gets to present his case and put the system on trial.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Hey, folks, it's Mike Ryan. The holiday season is upon us. Christmas is coming next week. So what are you doing for it? I imagine you're going to have some family over. How do you entertain the family? How do you keep everybody happy? Well, I know one easy way. Make your holiday time Miller time. Bring out a nice silver platter of that beautiful white can. or bottle whatever your preference.
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Heck, do it on draft. As long as it's got that beautiful amber color and was Triple Hops brewed, you know it's going to be a hit. Why? Because Miller Lite has tastes you know you can depend on. No games, no gimmicks, just great beer for people who like beer. Take a sip, look around, see your family, and know you immediately made the best decision possible. Because Miller Lite is brewed for taste.
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It hits different than other light beers. Simple ingredients like malted barley for rich, balanced toffee note flavors in the iconic golden color. The original light beer since 1975 and still the best one. Making memories at year-end gatherings? Tastes like Miller time. Go to MillerLight.com to find delivery options near you.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
Or you can pick up some Miller Light pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Fewer calories and carbs than premium regular beer.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
That's been this show with Stu Gatz for 20 years. Yeah, but we don't have a black guy going, mmm, when someone's making a good point.
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$100,000 every time. I mean, Ocho's doing that for Shannon.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
You're saying media because I watch hockey. Zach Hyman. Slap her to the face.
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We gotta throw a flag here. Hella? Hella.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
All right, hold on. I got all sorts of questions, though. All right, so we've established Toyotathon. Yeah. What are his stats like during, like, happy Honda days?
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
No. You just had a birthday, dude.
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Local Hour: Thursday Night Football Reaction
And is it just a car thing? Like, what are his stats when the never-ending possible is back at Olive Garden? Oh, man, that's a good one.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
The autumn wind is a pirate. St.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
The fake Mark Twain quote about coldest winters being summers that he didn't actually say. No, you have to have some element of elements in this sport.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Right, but it wasn't actually Mark Twain that said it.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Damn, I miss Thursday night football when both teams have a week's worth of rest. That's what happens occasionally on Thursday night football in an otherwise really boring game. We did get a national talking point out of the game, and we have an interesting cast of characters to walk you through that. Dan's a little late, so pinch hitting for him is Dan.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Dan, we have perfect fodder. A football player quit on his team, so it's wonderful as the season just flames out in embers. Hawk admitted that he had considered, but not seriously. I'm curious, what was one point in your career where you were like, ah. I don't know, Jim.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
He is.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Not letting him. Don't you think other teams, even within that division, will understand like, OK, he performed admirably in the starter's place. Starter comes back, starts not feeling completely right. They ask him to go in and not a good moment. Certainly quitting. But if you add just the additional context, people can understand like this was maybe just an emotional moment.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Andrew Hawkins, a former NFL player, a former player rep, and a former team president, and David Sampson. These ingredients have never been together before, and we get to talk about a player quitting on his team. Let's go.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Does it surprise you that it's a veteran that's doing this?
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
I'm sorry, Stugatz is pinch-hitting for Dan.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Sorry, late scratch. So, Stugatz, you're not a former player, you're not a former team president, but you are a hot take artist that found out about this story five minutes ago. So I am going to be very curious of your take.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
I'm not prepared. He's done it a bunch of times in his life before, just not for that team. I sucked at catching punts.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Was that naivete, like you're just entering the league? Absolutely not. If veteran Hawk was around, would he advise young Hawk differently?
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
However, for the audience that doesn't know, Devontae Campbell, a backup occasional starter linebacker for the San Francisco 49ers, was called upon to enter the game, refused to enter the game. And we have sound from all the key players involved. First, let me walk you through this. Kyle Shanahan was asked about what happened after the game. Here's the sound.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Some of the ticket prices for these college football playoff games are insane, but it's the first time we've ever seen games with this kind of stakes attached in home on-campus venues. Really in-demand tickets, and I'm sure a lot of you are frustrated because you're wondering, how can I get these in-demand tickets? Jess, I know you're headed up to South Bend for a playoff game against Indiana.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Why don't you download the GameTime app? I'm sure you already have, but If you haven't, create an account. Use code DAN, that is D-A-N, for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. You get panoramic seat views, GameTime's incredible ticket coverage, really the best in the secondary ticket marketplace. Download GameTime today. What time is it? Well, it's GameTime. GameTime, yeah. It's GameTime.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
It's GameTime.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
They're usually up for the same roles.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Hawk, you were on the Cleveland Browns with Kyle Shanahan, right? Yeah. Yeah, I was there. How do you think this flies with Coach Kyle?
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
I've been saddened by... You played when it mattered. When bowls mattered.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
It sucked. You got swag bags. Yeah, I mean.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
So making a bowl meant an additional month out in the elements.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
And he provided – crucial insight in that he muffed a punt and got cut immediately, so he knows the cause and effect with his time at the Rams. I might make a mistake, Mike.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
You know, it's funny. You detail all these things that kind of sound miserable. Practicing outside at Toledo, CFL, winning one professional football game in two full seasons. Toledo. Toledo. Toledo. Holy Toledo. So you go through all of that. And then you go to Foxborough and you link up with the Patriots. You have the greatest quarterback of all time and the greatest head coach of all time.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
And that's when you decide, eh, that's enough.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Like the Chris Bosh rule. Chris Bosh had like one point in an NBA finals game.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Scoreless in a game seven. There was a basketball player that had one point in a playoff game, and I was like, I'd rather have zero. Zero? Yeah, I'd rather have zero than just one singular point.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
We had the talent, bro. Jalen Parmelee.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Billy's Navidad, everybody. Merry Christmas. Christmas week is upon us. And many of you are hosting family gatherings, having friends over for the holidays, and you're wondering, how do I make this holiday time a special time? Well, you make the holiday time a special time by making it Miller Time.
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That's right, a beer with tastes that you know you can depend on, no games, no gimmicks, just great beer for people who like beer. You put out the Miller Life, you set it, you forget it, and everybody is all happy during the holiday season. You'll take that first sip, and you'll know right away you made the right call, whether it's around the
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Were these fleeting thoughts or legitimate things that you were contemplating on the sideline before they called you in on the drive?
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
fire pit or on the Cajacina, you know that Miller Lite is going to hit the spot because Miller Lite is brewed for taste. It hits different than other light beers with simple ingredients like malted barley for rich, balanced Tofino flavors and that iconic golden color. The original light beer since 1975 and still the best one. Making memories at year-end gatherings tastes like Miller time.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Go to MillerLite.com slash Dan. Find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Fewer calories and carbs in premium regular beer.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Was it against the Steelers?
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
I wish it would have been against the Steelers. Those teams would beat you up physically. I imagine when you're 0-16.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
A lot of money, and to David Sampson's point of, I'll cut him on the spot, that is a lot of money. But Guy A is unreliable.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Well, Hawk mentioned how this might go over in the locker room with the teammates. Let's hear from his teammates. First, Treverius Ward had something to say.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
He's also playing a position in which Fred Warner is excelling at his position with a fractured ankle. He's played several games in a row with that fractured ankle. Your take on what Ward had to say before we get to another team leader in George Kittle.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
So does this deflect from a loss that pretty much ends San Francisco's season? Or does it compound some of the larger issues? Because... If you're a Niners fan and you're watching that game, you're wondering about the blueprint. And then you have a productive player quitting on you, a player that you're paying a lot of money to quitting on you, too.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
It does kind of feel like, is this the end for this? Not necessarily regime because Kyle's in high demand, but their window certainly feels like it might have closed and slammed shut.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
I've had insight from previous union reps before, Hawk, but I haven't really had the opportunity to talk to you about these short week Thursday night football games because it's always a national talking point any time you have a really bad game. And last night was a really bad game. Watch out for the Rams, though. Sneaky. Yeah. I mean, they just have the Jets, Cards, Hawks. Keep an eye on them.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
You're right. They can be ours in the playoffs. I'm with you. They are sneaky. But were you in – I imagine you were representing your team when it came to these discussions on the short week Thursday night football games. That was slop. Now, there is slop occasionally on Sundays. Lord knows the AFC South was putting up about a decade's worth of divisional slop. But, I mean, you can't ignore it.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
They're paying a lot of money. This is a feature game. It does have some stakes attached to it, and it was just garbage.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Yeah, but does your body physically feel different getting up for a Thursday game? I would just always assume maybe they're a little bit more sore. How do they get up and muster the same kind of effort? No, not when you're young, man.
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Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Let's not forget a week ago they had seven days rest. Sure, okay, understood.