Vince Chan

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the No Strict Lines journey of Nicole Roberts.

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Speaking from my own experience, there are so many stories like that. One great example is actually this show. I've never asked any guest to refer someone else, not once. Every guest who comes on, either I invited them or they reached out to me. My only focus is creating the best possible experience for them, making sure the episode is meaningful, smooth, and enjoyable. What happened?

Chief Change Officer

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More and more guests have told me they genuinely enjoyed the experience. Afterwards, they will say, Hey Vince, I actually know someone who would be a great fit for your show. One guest even referred five new guests. Completely unfronted. No commission, no referral fee, no expectations. It's not transactional.

Chief Change Officer

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It's just a natural return, if I can use this word, that comes from being a generous, thoughtful host. That's the ripple effect you were talking about.

Chief Change Officer

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But then you built a story around a fictional character, Emily. Why that choice? Why bring in a fictional element in a non-fiction business setting? And I'm also curious, why Emily? Why a female character, not a male one? Was there a particular reason behind that decision?

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Let's come full circle to end our conversation. You mentioned that your longtime interest has been neuroscience. And every year, you produce a summit focused on brain health. I'll admit, I don't know much about this event. So I'd love for you to walk us through it. It's called Brain Summit. It happens around the Super Bowl weekend, which is interesting.

Chief Change Officer

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And yes, athletes deal with serious brain health issues due to the nature of the sport. But it's not just about them. Brain health is something that matters to everyone. So tell us more. What's your role in this event? What are you hoping to achieve, not just with this summit, but overall? What's the bigger mission behind your work in this space?

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Great. Then I need to start planning for this year.

Chief Change Officer

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Absolutely. Next year, I'll knock it down. And thank you again, Nicole. Both you and Monty have been incredibly generous with your time, your energy, your honesty. It really means a lot. And I genuinely appreciate how open and thoughtful you've been throughout this entire conversation. And yes, we overran a bit, but it was totally worth it. This was such a fun and inspiring conversation.

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And anything else you need, just ask how to reach me. And that brings us to the end of this series. Nicole's journey is proof that you don't need a perfect plan to make a real impact. You just need purpose. a little courage, and a lot of listen. Whether it's neuroscience, generosity, or hospitality, her work reminds us that generosity isn't fluff. It's the talk and the walk in life and career.

Chief Change Officer

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

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Nicole is a doctor of public health, co-authoring a business book called Generosity Wins with a seasoned CEO, Monty Wood, who happens to be one of our guests on the show. Nicole once posed her PhD to start a human rights firm. Just to give you a sense of how things go, in this two-part series, we talk about what happens when you let purpose guide your work instead of a perfect plan.

Chief Change Officer

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Let me say this. When I interviewed Monty, he shared a lot from his business background. his work with some major players, real tech titans. And he said things like, Vince, I saw them literally do this, build that. You could really feel impact through his stories. What stood out was how he brought a business lens to everything.

Chief Change Officer

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We get into the science behind generosity, how real human stories shaped her book, and why the best leaders know when to ditch the rulebook. And she also helps run a brain summit every year during the Super Bowl. So this conversation goes places. Let's jump in.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

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And now, with you bringing in the science angle, I think the two of you really complement each other. Since Monty had that business focus, and I come from a business background too, having studied at Chicago Booth, I naturally asked him about something really specific, the ROI of generosity.

Chief Change Officer

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Ever since I first learned the term ROI, it was in a finance class, of course. We did all the usual calculations. But generosity, that isn't something you can plug into a formula. You can't always measure it. Or maybe you can somehow monitor it in a different way. That's why when Monty brought it up, this idea of generosity having a ripple effect, it really landed for me.

Chief Change Officer

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Honestly, I buy that concept. I've seen it play out in my own life and career. Doing things with no expectation, and then somehow more opportunities, more trust, more value come back around. So I definitely believe in it, but putting it into a business context, trying to tie generosity to metrics, that's where it gets tricky. I asked Monty about it directly.

Chief Change Officer

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If ROI is what we track in business, how do you track or even explain the ROI of generosity? You are not coming from a business world, but you know how strong this concept is in business. How do you think about measuring or recognizing the return on generosity?

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These days, with AI and all the available data, you could possibly turn your lectures or content into something interactive. Maybe even develop your own AI agent.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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Now going back to your book, generosity wins. What brought you in the very first place to write something like this and with Monty as your co-author?

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the No Strict Lines journey of Nicole Roberts.

Chief Change Officer

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You're a co-author in a book called Generosity Wins with Monty Wood. Monty and I had such a great conversation. I can't wait to get his co-author back to the show, which is you.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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That's it for today. We've traced Nicole's unexpected path from neuroscience to human rights to public health. But there's more. In part two, we get into the backstory of her book, Generosity Wins. While the main character is fictional, but the lessons are real. and how a rain summit landed in the middle of Super Bowl weekend. It's one of the most creative takes on leadership I've heard.

Chief Change Officer

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Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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Yeah. Sure. Let's start with your journey, your history, and then we'll dive into different elements of your past and your present.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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You studied public policy and later focused on public health. What originally drew you to public policy? Especially being in Washington, DC, a place so closely tied to politics and government. I know you also spend time in politics. So I'm curious, not just about the shift from point A to B to C, but also about the thinking behind those transitions.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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Nicole is a doctor of public health, co-authoring a business book called Generosity Wins with a seasoned CEO, Monty Wood, who happens to be one of our guests on the show. Nicole once posed her PhD to start a human rights firm. Just to give you a sense of how things go, in this two-part series, we talk about what happens when you let purpose guide your work instead of a perfect plan.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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You clearly have a very strong passion for driving public policy. But along the way, you realized that policy and politics are two different things. Very different. Did you find politics didn't sit well with you? What was it that didn't feel right?

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You are clearly a thinker, but also very much a doer. You are someone who wants to drive real change and not just talk about it. You want to see it, build it, make it tangible. And that's something I really value. On this show, I've said it many times. I love working and talking with leaders who walk the walk, talk the talk. Because these days, talk is cheap.

Chief Change Officer

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Honestly, you can just drop a topic into AI tools, say, check GPT, get a polished script, memorize it, and suddenly you're saying the right things. but that's not leadership. Talk is getting commoditized. What really matters now is the walk. And with you, I see someone who does both. You've got the sharp thinking, the public policy background, the communication skills, but you also want to act.

Chief Change Officer

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You want to take all that insight and actually make something happen. But I imagine that's where the frustration comes in when politics and economics, invisible or visible hands, don't always align with action. They don't always support the walk, even if they are filled with talk. Is that how you experience it?

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You mentioned about you, after those six years of doing your own practice in human rights, you went back to school, you finished your dissertation, but you changed the topic. I was wondering how those six years of experience, what happened there that helped you to change from one topic to another? And what was your topic? What was your final topic at the end?

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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We get into the science behind generosity, how real human stories shaped her book, and why the best leaders know when to ditch the rulebook. And she also helps run a brain summit every year during the Super Bowl. So this conversation goes places. Let's jump in. Hi, Nicole. Welcome to the show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. I feel like I'm meeting an old friend.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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It sounds like your journey into coaching was part of your own self-discovery, where you eventually turned that interest into a full-time practice. Now, when it comes to career transitions, people handle them in different ways. Whether the transition was triggered by downsizing, layoffs, involuntary resignation, or simply wanting to do something different.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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Now, Benedict is turning that experience into something powerful. He's built a full-time practice to help others navigate similar challenges of layoffs and downsizing, offering a shift in mindset and sharing the principles from his book, where he lays out his big three strategies for stepping out of the shadows and moving on. Better, faster, and stronger. Welcome, Benedick. Welcome to our show.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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not everyone sees it in a positive light. Some people see transitions as a failure or setback, while others see them as opportunities for growth, while others see them as opportunities for growth. Personally, I see career transitions as growth opportunities, though I admit that there was a time in my life when I didn't.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Every day, it seems like you can't escape news of layoffs, corporate downsizing, or restructuring. Today's guest, Benedict Uman, has been directly impacted.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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I used to see them as personal failures, which made the process really tough for me. But back to you, now that you've built a coaching practice and have been working with people, what do you think causes some individuals to struggle with seeing career transitions as opportunities? Why do some people see it as a setback or even feel resentment towards making a change?

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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You've designed a framework called the Big Three. Can you elaborate on that? How do you use these three principles to help your client take better control of their careers and future?

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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Benedick. You've written a book which is freely available. Through this book and your coaching practice, you're helping people through career dilemmas, layoffs, and various forms of corporate downsizing. I'm sure many listeners are eager to hear more about your insights, your philosophy, and your approach to these challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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But before we dive into that, could you share a bit about your own story? Where are you originally from in Germany? What brought you to France? And what did you do there? Let's start with your background and then we'll explore different parts of your experiences in more depth.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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Wow. You've stayed with one firm for 17 years, taking on multiple roles. Talk about loyalty. In today's workplace, loyalty to employers or employees. Even employers' loyalty to employees feels like antique. Premium, high value, but very, very few people truly understand the value. How was that experience for you? Tell us about how your roles evolved over time.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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You mentioned that you study physics, which I have to admit, I know nothing about. I've always thought people who study physics are super smart. But then in a gaming company, you were dealing with customers, working with people and creating games. How did all of that come together for you?

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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Benedict has spent 17 years with Blizzard, a market leader in creating epic gaming experiences. In today's workplace, loyalty to employers or even employers' loyalty to employees feels like a relic of the past. So how was that experience for him? For the most part, it was positive and enjoyable. But then, things shifted. Hearts were broken. Homes were shuttered.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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So, if I look at your journey, it seems like, for the most part, two-thirds of it, your time at Blizzard was quite positive and enjoyable. You had the right kind of culture, a great team, And you were learning through different roles. But then something changed. It seemed like the trigger point was the merger.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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New policies, a shift in business direction, and ultimately a change in the overall culture. That's when a lot of changes started happening for you personally, as well as for the team and the things you care about at this company. Over time, especially around the COVID period, you found yourself trying different things, staying engaged in the firm, but the whole environment happened.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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shifting, becoming less familiar and no longer the right fit for you. With the downsizing and layoffs, it sounds like that was the moment when it became clear that it was time for you to move on. And now you're channeling that experience into your current practice, helping others who face similar challenges and layoffs.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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At what point during or after your time at Blizzard did you have that testimony like, hey, I've been through this tough experience. Why not turn it into a way to help others? Was there a specific moment that made you realize, this is what I want to do. This is my new mission.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Yeah, like you said, it wasn't forced on you, though you were let go despite your performance. But that also opened up a chance for you to rethink, reposition, and as you mentioned, it was a friend who showed you a new door and you stepped through it. I'm curious about your choice making in that moment, your thought process. What was it like when you decided to make that shift?

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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From the heartbreak of not making the Olympic team to leaving the sport for good after an injury, she faced one identity crisis after another. But she didn't stop there. Nina built a successful journalism career that spent 17 years only to be let go despite being a beloved news anchor. And instead of staying down, she jumped into technology, starting from scratch, and reinvented herself yet again.

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#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Why did it make sense for you? Was it about certain skills you had at that time or maybe the financial prospects? Perhaps you saw a bigger trend emerging, but I know for most people, it's not just about trends. Change has to resonate personally too. So I'd love to understand more about your thought process and decision-making in that moment.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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I think your reflection is really important. because I've noticed a lot of people, including my friends, focus on things like money or friends when considering a career change. Right now, for example, AI is a huge trend and everyone knows is where the big money is. But jumping into it without personal alignment often feels like following the herd.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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That's why I asked about how you identified your fit in tech. It's not just about chasing the next big thing. It's about finding a meaningful place for yourself. As you explained, your background in video, TV, and connecting with people gave you a unique edge. You didn't just leap into tech blindly.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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you brought your skills with you and carved out a spot where your past experiences could make an impact.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Today, in part one of our conversation, we are diving into Nina's journey, her training, her trials, and her setbacks. Then tomorrow in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges. Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Absolutely. And I think that's a great point. For anyone listening, the takeaway here is to think outside the box when it comes to your skills and experience. We often limit ourselves to what we have always done or the industry we know, but those same skills can often apply in ways we wouldn't initially expect. In my own experience,

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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A guest on the show, an executive recruiter, once told me I would meet a great executive recruiter myself. At first, I was surprised. Recruiting wasn't something I've ever considered. But she pointed out that my ability to support talent, connect with people, and bring the right voices onto the show demonstrated qualities that could be valuable in her industry.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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So, just like your own story, it's about being creative and open-minded when exploring new directions. Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to see what we are really capable of.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Just now, Nina shared with us about her long journey, her training, her trials, and her setbacks. Tomorrow in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges. Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success. We are going beyond that.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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We are going beyond that. So let's begin this incredible journey with Nina.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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It's a pleasure. Nina, you've had such an interesting and meaningful journey. Early on, you were a professionally trained gymnast, but eventually you had to say goodbye to that world and transition into TV and journalism. Then you pivoted again, moving into tech, And now you are a speaker, coach, and consultant. A lot of changes.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. These days, we talk a lot about resilience. We can discuss the psychology of it all day long. But who actually walks the walk and talks the talk when it comes to resilience? Professional athletes. Today, I'm sitting down with Nina Sossaman Polk, a former professional gymnast

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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In my eyes, you truly embody the role of a Chief Change Officer at heart. We're going to dive into these transitions, the trends you've seen, and everything in between. But first, let's start with a quick intro. Tell us about your background and journey, and then we'll dig deeper into different aspects of your experience.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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People often associate change with resilience because, let's be honest, You need a resilient mindset to get through a transition, to survive before you thrive. And Nina, the reason I invited you to the show is because the kind of resilience you've developed is something truly unique. Unlike most people, you were in professional sports.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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You spent about 15 years in gymnastics in the early part of your life. And you know that any professional sport requires intense training, like a form of military training in my eyes. It demands focus, resilience, constant competition, and the ability to bounce back from failure quickly. Can you share more about your experience in gymnastics? How did you get into it?

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Why did you choose gymnastics? And how did that experience shape your resilience? I imagine it was a crucial foundation for the resilience you've carried forward into the rest of your life.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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I remember telling you about my first impression of gymnastics. It actually came from watching the 1984 Olympics in L.A., I was just a kid living in Hong Kong, and it was summer vacation, so I was allowed to watch TV every day, which was rare during school days. I watched those morning broadcasts, which were live from LA in the afternoon, daytime. I was so captivated by the US gymnastic teams.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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They were amazing, incredible, winning all round medals. Wow, that looks intense. That looks magical. So when you told me gymnastics was your day-to-day life back then, I was seriously impressed. But as you also shared, there came a point when you had to leave the sport, not because of the Olympics, but for other reasons. Could you tell us more about what led you to step away from gymnastics?

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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who started her journey at about four years old and went on to join the US gymnastic team. In her own words, gymnastics is a perfect example of resilience. You literally fall down and get back up all day, every day, as you learn new skills. That mindset became part of Nina's DNA, and it carried her through some incredible twists and turns.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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You studied communication in college, then went into TV. So why communication? What drew you to it? And what made it compelling enough for you to turn it into a career?

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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So TV was what really sparked your interest. Made you think, this is it. That's why you started your career there. But then once again, you went through another transition and eventually moved into technology. How did that come about? And by the way, how long were you in the TV industry before making that switch? And what actually triggered it?

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Now, for my last question, this one is a bit personal. You talk about change, the future, and human skills, but you're also a mother. Your daughter is still a student studying at one of the top schools in the States. How have you personally nurtured her to be a future-ready human? And if she ever came to you and said, Mom, I need to figure out my future career direction.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we're talking about the future of work, innovation, and why most companies make change way harder than it needs to be.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Yeah, I completely relate to that. It's not just a U.S. thing. It's universal. Universal. Back in the 80s, when I was in middle school, my father gave me a book about how getting an MBA was the golden passport to success. And back then that was true, especially in banking and consulting. By the time I finished my MBA studies in 2002, right after 9-1-1,

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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The economy wasn't great, but finance was still one of the best paying industries. I got into it. In terms of salary, it was good. But at some point, I felt lost. I had followed the standard playbook, but I had no real sense of who I was. I wish someone like you had spoken to me back then, given me real, genuine advice about the future.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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So I'm curious, when raising your daughter, did you do anything special to make her more future-sensitive, more future-ready?

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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The last question I asked about your parenting is because I really believe in walking the walk, talking the talk when it comes to leadership. And you, as both a leader and a parent, I think role modeling is everything. Maybe in a future episode, we can focus more on future humans. how we raise the next generation to be ready for what's ahead. A lot of listeners might be parents themselves.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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They may not have your exact background and resources, but they are shaping the future in their own families. My parents never had the chance to learn from people like you, but today's parents do, and that's powerful.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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They can take inspiration from your approach, how to raise future-ready humans, not just in terms of careers, but as responsible, creative, value-added adults who contribute to their community, to the world. This could be a really great conversation for next time. I love it. Count me in.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Simplicity matters not just for organizations and teams to work more efficiently and productively, but also for us as individuals. When we first met, you mentioned that this concept applies to everyone. And I completely agree. Especially in today's world, social media, endless noise, misinformation is super overwhelming.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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And that's where I'll leave you. We've tackled everything from future thinking to eliminating workplace chaos. And why simplicity isn't just a strategy, it's a survival skill. The real question now is, what's one thing you can stop doing today that will make room for something better? Think about it. Big thanks to Lisa for sharing her intelligence and insights.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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And with mental health being a major issue, simplifying our lives feels more important than ever. So how can we do that? How can we personally practice simplicity in a way that helps us stay focused, clear-headed, and mentally strong?

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Yeah, as you were explaining, it reminded me of my own corporate days. Looking back, I think a big reason I burnt out was because I did not practice some of the things we just mentioned. Saying no, setting boundaries, not taking on everything that came my way. And that hustle culture we saw over the last 10 years, especially in tech and entrepreneurship, only made it worse.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Everyone was always on the go, jumping from meeting to meeting, catching flights, attached to their phones as if being constantly busy meant being successful. But these same ideas about simplicity apply to personal life too. Half the things we own, we don't even need to buy them. And if we buy them but never use them, they just turn into clutter.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Even small things like deleting old files, clearing out storage make a difference. Sure, maybe you have a big house, a basement full of stuff, but it is not useful. What is the point? I was just talking to a friend about getting rid of things before a bag moves, and it really hit me. Simplicity is key.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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My guest is Lisa Burdell, the top 40 global speaker on simplification, innovation, and change, as well as the CEO of FutureThink. She's helped companies like Google and Pfizer cut through the clutter, kill pointless rules, and actually get things done. In this two-part series, we'll dive into her journey, how she went from advertising to futurism, why most organizations resist change,

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Let's move on to something closely related. Mental health, productivity, and of course, the future. Earlier, you mentioned how everyone these days calls themselves an AI expert. But the reality is, AI isn't just hype. It's not a passing trend. It is a new paradigm, a new economy, and it's here to stay. Now, you and I are on the same page about this.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Human skills, or what I call human intelligence, are going to become more important, not less. In fact, I believe they will become a premium asset while technology itself becomes a commodity. Think about it. Apps, automation, AI tools, they are all becoming more accessible, more standardized.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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But deep human skills like critical thinking, independent thinking, storytelling, problem solving, connecting with people, those are irreplaceable. Those are unique. The challenge, though, is that we've lost a lot of these skills over the last 10, 20, even 30 years. I talk about this often on my show. How social media, for example, has contributed to this decline.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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We've lost the art of thinking, writing, and real human connection. Lisa, I know this is something you think about a lot. Looking ahead, how do you see this playing out? How can we rediscover and nurture our human skills in a world increasingly dominated by AI? What needs to change?

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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As you were sharing, I started thinking about how school used to be, how we had all these different subjects, mathematics, English, French, history, biology, chemistry. Some of us love math, some hate it, some are naturally good at languages or humanities. Now, imagine if schools today didn't just teach subjects, but instead focused on specific human skills.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Curiosity, critical thinking, problem solving, empathy, adaptability. Just like some kids are naturally drawn to math or writing. Maybe some will be more inclined towards curiosity as a skill, while others might naturally excel in problem solving.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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If we started recognizing human skills as areas of talent, just like academic subjects, it could completely reshape the way we educate not just kids, but also working professionals. Maybe that's part of the future of learning. a shift from memorizing subjects to mastering the skills that truly set us apart in an AI-centric world.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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and how simplicity is the secret weapon for real innovation. We'll also unpack why AI won't replace human skills, but overcomplicated systems just might. If you've ever sat in a meeting thinking this could have been an email, you won't want to miss this one. Let's get started. Simplicity matters not just for organizations and teams to work more efficient.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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You own it, you run future think and this is the work you do. I checked out the website and you got a huge range of courses, training organizations and teams to drive change, innovate and adapt. But one theme that keeps coming up is simplicity. It's something you clearly champion. So let's talk about that. On an organizational level, what does simplicity mean to you?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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And why is this so important in driving real change?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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You've worked with so many different companies, small, medium, and big. Without naming names, can you share an example? Let's say a business comes to you and says, hey, Lisa, I want to work with you. What does that process look like? I'm curious, what kind of things do you typically help them get rid of? Can you walk us through an example?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we're talking about the future of work, innovation, and why most companies make change way harder than it needs to be.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Simplicity matters, not just for organizations and teams to work more efficiently. Simplicity matters, not just for organizations and teams to work more efficiently and productively, but also for us as individuals. When we first met, you mentioned that this concept applies to everyone, and I completely agree.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Especially in today's world, social media, endless noise, misinformation is super overwhelming. And with mental health being a major issue, simplifying our lives feels more important than ever. So how can we do that? How can we personally practice simplicity in a way that helps us stay focused, clear-headed, and mentally strong?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Sure, Lisa. You've done a lot and you are still doing a lot. through FutureThink, the platform you started 20 years ago. That was before the iPhone, before AI became mainstream. Yet, you were already thinking ahead, already focused on the future. Now, 20 years is a long journey, and I know we can't cover everything in just one conversation. So let's focus on the key moments.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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That's it for today. We've unpacked Lisa's journey from an agency to futurism and why most companies make change way harder than it needs to be. But there's more. Next time, we are diving into the real problem holding back innovation. Complexity. Lisa shares how she's helped companies like Google and Pfizer keep pointless rules, simplify work, and free up time for what actually matters.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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If you've ever felt buried under unnecessary tasks, you won't want to miss part two. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Let's start with your story. Before FutureThink, what led you to this? What triggered you to start it? Maybe a bit of your background, both personal and career. And then how FutureThink has evolved over the last two decades. Let's start there.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Wow. So in your own career, you started in the corporate world and then transitioned out. And this was way before coaching, entrepreneurship, and tech startups became mainstreamed. You've been in the consulting and coaching space for a long time. Looking back, how would you describe your own evolution? Would you call it reinvention?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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When you made the move, stepping out of that safety net into solo entrepreneurship, what was that experience like?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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You started this journey way ahead of the curve before it was the norm. And it must have been scary. It was definitely risky. Were there moments when you thought, maybe I should just go back to corporate America? Did you ever question your decision?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Earlier, you mentioned learning about futurism, how you got inspired by someone in the field, study it, and eventually step into that role yourself. Now you are helping organizations navigate their future. Before we dive into organizational change, I want to ask more about your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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When you took that leap of faith, when you left behind the old path to create a new future for yourself, did you already have a clear vision? Did you see exactly where you were heading? Did you know, this is it, this is my future, these are the steps I need to take? Or were you still figuring things out, navigating as you went?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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My guest is Lisa Burdell, the top 40 global speaker on simplification, innovation, and change, as well as the CEO of FutureThink. She's helped companies like Google and Pfizer cut through the clutter, kill pointless rules, and actually get things done. In this two-part series, we'll dive into her journey, how she went from advertising to futurism, why most organizations resist change,

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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As you were explaining, I kept thinking about decision trees. I studied finance. And back in business school, we actually covered this in a class that connected economics with strategy. Professors taught us about decision trees. And if you go deep into the math, you get into multi-color simulations, big data, and statistical models. But stepping away from the numbers, the idea still applies.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Different scenarios lead to different risks, different uncertainties, and different possible paths. And from what you've shared so far, futurists help people Master change, not just react to it, but own it, master it, and drive it. Over the last 10 years, the term futurist has become much more common. A lot of people now call themselves one.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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So basically, what you're saying is that futurism is both a science and an art. It's packed by models, data, and research, but at the same time, is shaped by real-life experience. When you work with clients, it's not just about the numbers. You can actually guide them on what to do, what not to do, what risks to watch for and where the real opportunities are.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Last time, I spoke with a guest who has worked with companies like Microsoft and Amazon, helping them with communication, marketing, and narrative. Now he has his own practice. Basically, you could call him a storyteller. So I asked him, Hey Chris, everybody calls themselves a storyteller these days. What do you think? And of course, he has his own take.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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In fact, he calls himself a strategic narrative advisor. because he still works with executives and companies, but wanted a title that better reflects what he actually does. Storytelling is one of those terms that gets thrown around a lot, maybe even overused, and I feel like futurist is the same way. That's why I wanted to ask about your interpretation what futurist truly means to you.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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and how simplicity is the secret weapon for real innovation. We'll also unpack why AI won't replace human skills, but overcomplicated systems just might. If you've ever sat in a meeting thinking this could have been an email, you won't want to miss this one. Let's get started. Lisa, good morning to you. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. I'm so excited to host you.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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I like to think of it as a tennis match when two leaders of equal caliber face off, akin to players matched in skill. But I'll be the first to admit real-life leadership dynamics are far more complex and full of ambiguities than a straightforward tennis match. Perhaps based on my own time in the thick of these leadership dynamics, let me share a few insights.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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First off, think of tennis as the ultimate showdown where players fight for their glory, fame, rankings, and of course, the prize money. It's the essence of competition, a zero-sum game where one's win is another's loss. But when we talk about shared leadership, the dynamics shift. It's not about winning or losing against each other. It's about playing a positive sum game.

Chief Change Officer

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Here, the strategy is coopetition, blending collaboration with competition. not just claim a larger slice of the pie, but to make the pie bigger for everyone involved, both for the individuals and the business. Now, let's talk umpires. In tennis, the umpire's decision is immediate and final, helped by technology with clear rules and transparent procedures.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Everything happens live with instant feedback on questionable actions. And then the game moves on. Business, however, doesn't have the luxury of an on-the-spot empire. Even with governance structures, shareholding frameworks and policies in place, those in oversight capacities, such as directors and investors, cannot always see, witness and judge events as they unfold.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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This delay introduces different risks, such as gaps in time, reality, expectations and information. making the business landscape much more complex than any sports arena. Let's talk about the whole people dynamics and structure thing. A concept foreign to the tennis court where the only crowd management needed is ensuring the audience stays quiet.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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However, in a world of business, voices and noises are ever-present. Mary's got this cool idea about making everyone a mini CEO, which sounds super empowering, but then that's the possibility of everyone doing their own thing, creating little islands or silos within the company.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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the adoption of remote work these people dynamics and political undercurrents present challenges that are harder to identify and address because of lack of physical presence and direct observation as a business skills these dynamics multiply here's a thought what if

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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We bring in some specific roles to help balance things out, like executive coaches as independent advisors for co-CEOs to keep them grounded, or a chief of staff to connect the dots between different parts of the company. and executive chairman acting as a more engaged umpire, ready to make proactive decisions and address issues more frequently.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Each role has its ups and downs, but when strategically positioned and holistically aligned, they could create a kind of self-reinforcing harmony in a power structure so that the co-CEOs can navigate the complexity of people dynamics more effectively. Just like Mary mentioned, she likes putting together her own playbook to fit her career and the business.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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I've still got a bundle of questions and plenty to say about the whole leadership dance. But I'm all ears for what Mary's got cooking in her next chapter. And who knows, maybe next round, we'll get Mary and Carson to hop on the podcast with us. All right, gearing up for the homestretch here, let's dive into our interview's final question.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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The very last question that I ask every single guest coming to my podcast is about their book recommendation.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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You're like me, not just about interest in nonfiction, but about how to see the world, money, finance, which we study a lot anyway, but things that would not only enrich us as a human being, but something that would help us to stay resilient given all the craziness going on in the world is the compass that we all want to hold on to. Thank you so much, Merrick. We have so much to talk about.

Chief Change Officer

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Not enough. We will continue. Thank you so much, Merrick.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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So how does the AI technology impact your space, especially in the context of human and machine interaction?

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Last time, we heard a very inspiring and interesting story about Mary, transforming from a classical musician with PhD to entry-level frontline salesperson, and now the co-CEO of a rising revenue enablement company. In this episode, Mary is going to break down how AI technology is not just a buzzword, but a game changer for sales teams and their revenue goals.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Like I said, there are lots and lots of use cases. We don't have time to cover them all. Let's take a step up, look at the impact of AI in a broader sense. I'm really interested in your perspective on balancing efficiency with effectiveness. So how do you envision AI transforming this balance? And regarding the old 80-20 rule, how do you see AI modernizing these concepts perhaps?

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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And if you were to come up with a metaphor that captures AI's role in the sales space, what would that be?

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Now, Mario, with the necessary capital secured, a talented team in place, and the promise of advanced technology, there is another critical element in the success equation of any business, which is leadership. You're navigating this journey with Carson as co-CEO, a setup that's somewhat unconventional in tech and large enterprises, though not unheard of.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Could you share what went through your mind when you decided to begin this co-leadership path? And more importantly, how has the experience been for you so far?

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Plus, we are tackling a topic that is a bit out of the ordinary, the co-CEO governance model. Ever wonder how having two captains during the ship compares to the solo CEO journey? How do they make it work? And what's the secret to balancing the benefits and the risks of sharing the leadership? Let's find out.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Sharing leadership is nothing new. It reminds me of my days in the financial markets, where co-head arrangements in investment banks and financial houses were standard. I had a chance to work directly under two co-CEOs leading a global business. Their setup worked well. They shared responsibility and authority. They complemented each other with their skill sets, styles, and approaches.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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What tied everything together was their mutual trust and having an umpire, a boss above them, to make the final calls. But when external market forces have changed, internal office environment has shifted, and their personal circumstances have diverted. partnership did not sustain. That's no different from my own journey as a co-founder in New Ventures.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Initially, we shared trust and viewpoints and respected each other's independence, leaning on interdependence when necessary. But as circumstances began to emerge, When one party's behavior becomes unfriendly or, I should say, counter-relationship, it often triggers a similar response from the other side. The whole dynamics of a relationship or partnership changed.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Here, the psychology concept, reciprocity, plays a crucial role in the dynamics and the final outcome. How do you guys resolve conflicts as and when it happens?

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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I'm a fan of tennis, so I'm thinking of if you've got two star players, like co-ceos, who's your part? At some point, something happened. At the same time, it's kind of like a marriage. And you know, any loving couples, they may at some point go to a consultant or something. Who's the empire?

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Now let's deep dive into Mediafly. I really want to learn more about your work there. What sort of problems you're trying to solve and whose problem? Who are your clients?

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode, I'm thrilled to welcome Mary Hsieh, the co-CEO of Mediafly, a leading revenue enablement company that raised $80 million in capital to turbocharge its growth.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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So you got a whole suite of tech-enabled solutions blended with human services. Yes. So how does the AI technology impact your space, especially in the context of human and machine interaction?

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Next time, Mary is going to break down how AI technology is not just a buzzword, but a game changer for sales teams and their revenue goals. Plus, we are tackling a topic that is a bit out of the ordinary, the co-CEO governance model. Ever wonder how having two captains during the ship compares to the solo CEO journey? How do they make it work?

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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It was about moving forward, unburdened. is a powerful reminder of the resilience it takes to truly embrace change and chase success on one's own terms. I'd come to know Mary before I even met her in person. A common friend, so to speak, is her partner, Waverly Deutsch, who was my former professor of entrepreneurship at Chicago Booth.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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And what's the secret to balancing the benefits and the risks of sharing the leadership? Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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After I heard all the wonderful things about Mary's business success in the sales space, I finally got to sit down with her over dinner when both of them came to Hong Kong before COVID. Other than good food and wine, fun conversation, I was impressed by all the changes she has led, building herself up with so much resilience and intelligence.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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As I was putting together the guest list for the podcast, I thought of her right away. I emailed her directly. Within eight minutes, I got her reply. There, she said, I would love to be on your podcast. Please send over details. Our team will take a look to make sure it's a good fit for me and Mediafly, which I already assume it is. You bet, Mary. Here we go.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Yes, a couple of years, a lot of changes. This podcast is about change. You are the perfect person to talk about that.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Now, let's start with your own change. I don't mean just a resume type of introduction, but more about milestones that you've experienced.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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back in your school days studying music and then move through the business landscape and now you are the co-CEO at Mediaflot.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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At Forrester, you were the analyst. You analyze things.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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You analyze businesses.

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#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Mary's story is downright inspiring. Mary, a proud LGBT community member and women's empowerment advocate, has taken a path less troubled. Imagine going from a classical musician with a PhD to an entry-level sales job, from playing music to playing a key role in sales, then rising to become a CEO after working as a forester analyst.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Now that you look back, if you analyze your career life, do you see any common threads or themes or factors or drivers of motivation? What would that be?

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Yep, enabler. I really like this word. Some of the best leaders I've worked with and for over years, they really try to enable my success even before I believe in it. They will say, just do it. I have confidence in you. I'll help you with that. I'll make you a success. That's what I call enablement leadership. That is very empowering.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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I like that term, mini CEO. You and Carson, the official co-CEO of Mediafly, you got a lot of mini CEOs on their own in their own space. They all have their own potential to grow, if I can summarize this way.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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If I had to capture Mary's journey in just two words, it would be beyond boundaries. We are our worst enemies, scared of failure or what others might think. But in Mary's case, instead of being paralyzed by the weight of her background as a well-educated musician, a mantle that could have been seen as baggage in her new arena. She chose to reinvent herself. This wasn't about giving up.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Other than sales, business, and tech, I know you are a passionate champion in driving diversity issues forward. especially with respect to women and LGBT communities. Tell us a bit more about your work there.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Absolutely. You've answered the question with so much authenticity and truth in that. I like what you said about courage equals leadership. Leadership equals courage. Although some leaders mistake, misinterpret Being courageous, meaning that they can just do whatever they want without thinking ahead of potential consequences on them and people around them.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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So they are taking risks without being thoughtful about the consequences, the impact they create. That actually I call stability, not courageous leadership. I also like what you said about integrity. We've seen a lot of cases in business and politics in which leaders lack integrity in what they do and what they say.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Our world needs more leaders who are like you, who value as well as practice integrity in talk and in walk. Now, let's look at another C word, change. This podcast is called Chief Change Officer. Change is the central theme in all of our interviews.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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I know at some point in your career life, you've been a consultant in change leadership and management, working with a lot of senior leaders, CEOs, and the teams. Tell us more about your experience there in helping others to build a mission for change and to execute on it.

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#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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But the corporate world couldn't contain her ambition for law. Irina transitioned from a comfortable corporate position during the credit crisis to spearhead new ventures, at some point becoming a change leadership consultant for CEOs and senior leaders. Then a few years back during COVID, she and her team were setting up a new venture.

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#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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So much so about the change you've experienced and also what you believe in change. Now, let's take a step further to talk about another kind of change that you are really passionate about, which is energy transition. As we speak, you and your team are building a new paradigm in energy transition. Tell us about the vision of you and your team.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Whose problem you're trying to solve and what exactly is this problem? Inspire us, educate us. Like we're five years old. Tell us more about what you're trying to do at this moment and what's the impact you're trying to make.

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#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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As we speak today, they are crafting a new paradigm in the energy sector. The mission is to disrupt the transportation industry in the States with innovative energy solutions. Towards the end of our conversation, Irina will share invaluable advice for the younger generation who are passionate about creating global change for the greater good. Here comes Irina Filipov.

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#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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So basically, you are an all-in problem solver for me if I'm one of those transport companies. Is that correct?

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Let me be a devil's advocate for the moment. If I were the CEO of a prospective client you're trying to pitch, you come to me with the full solution. One question, major question comes up in my mind would be if I rely on you to provide me with a full solution, what if something goes wrong? Basically, I expose myself to the counterparty risk of you that is not controlled in-house.

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#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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So what would you say? What would you respond if I ask you this question? How you managed the situation, the set of risk that I may expose myself to if I sign up for your service?

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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You are the chief operating officer in this venture. every day, you deal with all sorts of questions about the deployment of technology, the implementation of the business model, the risk management for a client and for your business, all sorts of things. As an entrepreneur, what excites you to move forward? What actually energizes you to get past the challenges to stay focused?

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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What is your source of power?

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#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Global change. This idea of creating global change, making impacts on others, building a better world for future generations or those, For grand purposes, a lot of younger generations, for example, MBA students, MBA graduates, they're all fascinated by playing a major role in changing the world for good.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Now, you yourself, as you mentioned, in your early part of your career, you were not satisfied with predefined career paths. You always wanted to do something different with your curiosity, with your self-starter mindset. So now that you look back as a seasoned leader, as a time-tested entrepreneur, as a change leader yourself, if you are now in front of a hall of MBA graduates and students,

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#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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What specific advice would you give to them in embarking on their career path?

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Don't ever stop doing it. Irina, this is an audio-only podcast, so I don't see your face and you don't see mine. But rest assured, I keep nodding my head as you share a lot of your opinion on courageous leadership, on keeping integrity in what you do, what you say, what you deliver, and the career advice you just shared with the younger generations.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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I can't agree with you more on a lot of those beliefs and opinions. I guess a large part is I myself personally, in the early part of my career, in the middle part and in the recent past, I've experienced a lot of those situations, issues, challenges, developed my own value system, come up with my own playbook, make my own laws of change. And we have so much in common to share and talk about.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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So when you have another free moment, I would love to bring you back and host you here for another mind-blowing session. Thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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This episode tells the story of a self-starter who never settles, who is constantly in search of change, who combines curiosity and courage with a profound sense of integrity, now becoming a force for change. Irina Filipov, the COO and co-founder of an energy transition company backed by BlackRock. We met more than 20 years ago at Yale. We are MBA classmates.

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#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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that link up all these different transitions and changes through all your career life so far?

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Let me summarize. You are a self-starter. You also have a strong sense of intellectual curiosity. These two forces are self-reinforcing. You are curious about new trends, new changes.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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You're not afraid of breaking through barriers, try something new, something different to self-start, to get your curiosity fulfilled, but at the same time to move ahead of the game, or I would say to set up the rules of the game yourself. Yet, I think there's one missing piece. It's courage. It takes courage for you to venture out there, for you to self-start without knowing all the unknown.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Right from the start, her clear and persuasive way of speaking really caught my attention. It's not just that she is a well-trained diplomat, fluent in five languages. She possesses a clarity of thought and the ability to communicate her ideas with strong conviction. You will surely sense this conviction throughout our conversation.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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So in your eyes, what is courage? What is courageous leadership, especially for a woman leader?

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Irina was born into a family led by a nuclear scientist in Russia. Yet her interests led her elsewhere, in particular to international relations and eventually a diplomat career in the States. Her journey didn't stop there. She wanted to pursue a business career, so she went to Yale and transitioned into the energy sector with BP in London.

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#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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Moving from corporate roles to entrepreneurship, to taking risks. The challenges can be very daunting for more mature individuals. So my question for you is, if an entrepreneur from Gen X or the baby boomer generation approaches you, wanting to do something meaningful to create a legacy.

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#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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She'll discuss the why behind her actions, what Wiseheart is exactly, who the target customers are, and how she plans to help these people. Lastly, where the name Wiseheart originated. If you're just joining this series, I strongly encourage you to check out the previous two parts.

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#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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They have ideas that could solve problems in industry they've known for decades, but they may not be as tech savvy as a lot of people perceive them that way. Or the pitch is not modern or sexy. How would you advise them? How would you help them balance the passion for the project with the logical aspects of launching a new venture at late age?

Chief Change Officer

#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been following closely our special three-part Love & Logic series, you know this episode is the final session, the finale of our trilogy, so to speak.

Chief Change Officer

#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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We started the series by focusing on Waverly's personal journey, the love and logic behind her career path and experiences. Then in part two, we explored a significant chapter of her career, 22 years at Chicago Bull. There, she taught and coached a well-defined group of highly logical talents who were passionate about innovation, change, and entrepreneurship.

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#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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It's not just about... tricking your mindset or upgrading your skill, learning new technologies and branching out, the market itself is transforming. I see a future where new types of jobs and careers emerge, roles we haven't even imagined The names or labels for these positions might not even exist today.

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#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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But give it a year, two or three years max, thanks to advancement in AI and other technologies, we're going to see work processes and roles evolve in ways we can't yet imagine. I view this shifting career landscape not just as a transition, but as an origin of growth opportunities for everyone, whether they are in 40s, 50s, or even 60s. Health is, of course, a vital consideration.

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#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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As long as we are healthy, those of us with sound minds and cross-generational experience, particularly in people skills and relationship building, will find immense value. These skills are crucial even for AI-focused tech companies like OpenAI. They're looking for individuals who can bridge the human technology gap, making these seemingly complex more approachable and human relevant.

Chief Change Officer

#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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So we are at the end of our interview, hopefully. This is the first time in my podcast that I create a three-part series on a single topic and a single guest. You are the first person. How do you find this experience yourself?

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#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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That's one important question I haven't asked you yet. I kind of guessed the reason, but I'd like you to share with us in the show the name of your firm, Wiseheart. Any thought process behind that? Could you share your little secret with us?

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#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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From that structured environment, we transitioned to discussing her current role as a coach for a broader and more diverse group of entrepreneurs. We also touched on the topic of AI human coaching, where AI serves as the powerhouse of logic. While AI can create flawless pitch decks and resumes, Waverly emphasizes that building a business is about fostering human relationships.

Chief Change Officer

#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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So, Waverly, thank you so much. We got so much good insights from you today. So, I definitely would invite you back for another session. Thank you so much for your time.

Chief Change Officer

#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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A special thanks to Waverly for sharing two hours of her valuable time for such amazing and candid conversation. That's a wrap on our three-part series on love and logic. For those who appreciate Waverly's insights and teachings, be sure to explore the other two episodes of this series if you enjoyed this finale. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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AI might set the stage. but it's the human touch that builds real connections with investors and employers. Let our finale begin. Let's dive into your newest venture, Wiseheart. I'm really curious about how you plan to continue supporting entrepreneurs with this new initiative. Over the years, you've coached and judged so many entrepreneurs. So for a moment, let's switch gears.

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#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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I'll put on my coach's hat and step into the shoes of a new venture challenge judge. Imagine you're now pitching Wiseheart to me. So tell me, what exactly is Wiseheart? What's the core mission there? Whose problem are you trying to tackle? I'd like to learn more about the specific characteristics of the people you're trying to help.

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#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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More importantly, how are you going about addressing their challenges?

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#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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Today, we'll come full circle and refocus on Waverly herself. She spent 22 years teaching at Chicago Booth, where one of her signature courses was building new ventures. Now, she is building her own venture called Wiseheart. In this episode, you'll hear her pitch. As you listen to our conversation, put on your entrepreneur coach hat and ask yourself, How compelling is her pitch?

Chief Change Officer

#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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Absolutely. I remember your tagline, tough love for entrepreneurs. I also recall that a few years back, you published an article about LGBTQ entrepreneurs in the Chicago Booth Review. I read the article myself, and it highlighted how underrepresented this group is in the entrepreneurial community. From what I remember, you discussed challenges like funding and general support.

Chief Change Officer

#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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It wouldn't surprise me if you planned to focus more on supporting them going forward.

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#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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Yeah, who knows what the future holds, especially with the election coming up. You mentioned the ongoing issues with LGBTQ identities being illegal in many places. It's a complex landscape. I also want to touch on ageism and other critical but often overlooked diversity issues. You are a baby boomer with extensive experience across various technological and economic cycles.

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#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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Speaking of age, many of our listeners, whether Gen X like myself or baby boomers like you might have retired or been laid off for various reasons. Yet, despite their valuable experience, they face entrenched ageism in the workplace and in entrepreneurship. As we discuss how to balance the heart and the head, love and logic, when making career decisions involving

Chief Change Officer

#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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Since leaving that structured academic environment, she has transitioned to her current role as a coach for a more diverse and larger group of entrepreneurs. Throughout my personal experience, having both official and unofficial mentors and coaches has been profoundly beneficial. is not just about the outcomes, but the process.

Chief Change Officer

#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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For listeners, NVC stands for New Venture Challenge. That's what Waverly referred to in her example. NVC is a top-ranked flagship accelerator program for entrepreneurs. That's programmed under Polsky Center for Entrepreneurship and Innovation at the University of Chicago. I'll attach the web link in the show notes in case anyone is interested.

Chief Change Officer

#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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Now, let's step away from the structured environment of a business school. You are now an independent consultant and coach. You are not dealing with a defined group of talents. The world has become your client base. Entrepreneurs of varying ages, generations, and cultures and educational level eat with their unique venture ideas.

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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While some may resettle MBAs using more logic than passion than love, others might remind you of younger MBAs or even undergrads. Yet the audience you engage with now is much broader and more diverse. I'm curious about how you've adapted or scaled your approach in this new role

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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How do you tailor your methods to meet the needs of such a varied audience, especially when it comes to refining their pitches and developing their venture ideas?

Chief Change Officer

#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This episode is the second part of our three-part series titled Love & Logic, featuring Waverly Deutsch as our special guest.

Chief Change Officer

#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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And more importantly, I've learned so much from the real life experiences of humans, my supervisors, teachers, colleagues, classmates, and even my life partner, who was once my teacher. These individuals have provided me with immense love and helped me refine my logic. human experience has always been critical to my personal and professional development.

Chief Change Officer

#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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You really are an excellent listener. I think part of that comes from your deep understanding of the situation at hand. And another big part is your communication skills. You're not just articulate. Once you understand what someone is going through, you take the time to think and analyze before responding in a way that really resonates with them.

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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I think that's what makes you such a good listener. It's not just about using your ears, but also engaging your brain and then responding thoughtfully. I can definitely vouch for that.

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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Absolutely. As a coach, I've realized that true listening is rare. We often hear about the importance of listening skills on social media, but ironically, social media by itself is a one-way means of communication. Switching back to coaching, I've done a fair amount of coaching myself, working with entrepreneurs and professionals.

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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What I've noticed is that I can make a strong impression right from the first meeting. Often, the subjects spend 10 or even 15 minutes sharing their problems and situations, and I listen intently. Then, I'll distill everything they've said into maybe 5 to 10 sentences at most. They're usually amazed and say, yes, exactly. That's exactly what I meant. It goes beyond verbal or written skills.

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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It's about truly listening, capturing the essence of what they are saying, and then reflecting it back to them in their own language. That's how they realize, wow, you really get me. That's how you build trust as a coach. That's been my experience.

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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As we enter the age of AI, Waverly and I will also discuss the role of human coaches. In this still developing scenario, AI is the powerhouse of logic. While decent coaches like Waverly represent love, providing that essential human touch in the coaching process. Without further ado, let's get started. Now, let's dive into a significant chapter of your career at Chicago Booth.

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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Do you think AI could be your competitor in coaching? It's multilingual and has incredible computational abilities with our theme of love and logic. where AI represents logic and you as a human coach embody love. How do you see AI supporting your coaching effort? And on the flip side, how could it possibly diminish the distinctiveness of your skills?

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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We kick off today's episode with Waverly sharing how her roles as a teacher, coach, and guide have helped different kinds of entrepreneurs and business people strike the right balance between logic-driven calculations and emotionally driven desires for new ventures. Then we shifted the angle, step up and look into the role of human coaches in the age of AI.

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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where you've dedicated 22 years to teaching and coaching the environment there was highly structured and students ranging from college undergrads to full-time mbas about mid-20s and late 20s and executives who are mid-30s to mid-40s All of them represented a distinctly logical and talented group of people.

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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In this still developing scenario, AI is the powerhouse of logic, while seasoned coaches like Waverly represent love, providing the essential human touch in the coaching process. As we speak, we are already seeing a new wave of tech products called AI agents. So, what will happen with this new norm? As Waverly argues, building a business is fundamentally about building human relationships.

Chief Change Officer

#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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She likens it to kosher, moving from one stage to the next. So, while the future might be digital, human connections will remain at the heart of business and personal growth. In the third part of our series, we'll come full circle and focus back on Waverly herself. She's now more than a coach. She's an entrepreneur herself, actively building her own new venture.

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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It's a fascinating mix of her ever-changing experiences. Stay tuned. We'll explore that in the next episode. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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Many of these students, like myself, came from very strong corporate backgrounds where we were primarily trained to think with our heads over our head. With that in mind, I'm curious about your perspective about them. They came to you. very eager to explore and explode their passions for innovation, for change, and for entrepreneurship. What common challenges did you observe them facing?

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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That's the first part of my question. For the second part, given those challenges you've identified, how have you leveraged your own experiences to guide them? Do you find yourself offering more love, i.e. emotional support, over logic, i.e. calculated strategies? Or is it a mix of both? or depending on individuals or segments of individuals?

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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Here, she explores from three perspectives how the intricate balance of love and logic shapes our career decisions and life choices. The last episode delved into Waverly's personal journey. looking into the love and logic that have guided her career path and experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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Can you share with us some specific examples?

Chief Change Officer

#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

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In this episode, which focuses on her role as a teacher and expert guide, we'll dive into a major chapter of her life, 22 years at Chicago Booth. There, she taught and coached a sharply focused group of highly logical talents. all deeply engaged in their passion for innovation, change, and entrepreneurship.

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#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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But in their eyes, she isn't being productive, not even trying to do anything meaningful. It's not about making big money. It's about learning something, adding value, contributing in some way. But she seems to have taken the idea of not needing a traditional job to the extreme, believing that work itself isn't necessary for her generation.

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#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Now, the reason I bring this up is because your book is titled, Employment is Dead. I understand what you mean by that. I don't misinterpret it. But I can see how some people might. They might take it at face value and think, Oh, we don't have to work anymore. We don't need offices, five-day work weeks, or even jobs at all. I don't think that's the message you're trying to send.

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So my last question to you is this. Do you really believe employment is dead? And more importantly, what is your true interpretation of that phrase? Whether someone watching this is 15, 25, 35, or 45, How do you want them to understand what you mean so the title doesn't get misinterpreted as something superficial?

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

In part one, we explore her incredible journey from shaping policy in Washington, D.C. to securing venture capital through a chance encounter at a Starbucks. She shares how risk-taking, adaptability, and breaking the old rules shaped her success. Then in part two, we tackle the future of employment. Why degrees aren't what they used to be? How AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs?

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Embrace life stage flexibility with purpose. We need to work. We need to contribute, put in the effort, and build our lives and careers. There are so many different ways to do that now. That's the message. In that sense, employment isn't dead. It's just evolving. The traditional model may be fading. but it's being reimagined in new and meaningful ways. Absolutely. Deborah, thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few days ago, we published a three-part series with George Dream, the co-author of the book, Employment is Dead. But we are not done yet.

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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I really appreciate you taking the time for this conversation. And congratulations on the entire journey of putting this book together. If I make it to the U.S., I'll be sure to grab an autographed copy from both of you.

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Of course. I'm not Bloomberg. I don't ask cookie-cutter questions. And that's a wrap on this two-part series with Deborah Perry Pistioni. We've torn apart outdated career playbooks, reimagined what work could be, and tackled how both workers and companies must evolve. The question now is, are you ready for what's next? Because the future of work isn't coming. It's already here.

Chief Change Officer

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If you found this conversation valuable, share it, rate the show, and let's keep pushing these conversations forward. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

And what companies must do before it's too late? And of course, we'll answer the big question. Is employment really dead? Get ready for bold, eye-opening conversation. Let's jump in. I had the privilege of reading through the book before it was published. Now, I'll be honest, I skimmed through a lot of it. Certain chapters really stood out to me, especially the one on credentials.

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Before starting my podcast, especially before COVID, I was deeply involved in the learning, education, technology space. I was speaking at conferences around the world on the future of work, including South by Southwest. So when you covered credentials, education and training, that chapter really caught my attention.

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Now, looking at one of the quotes from that chapter, he wrote, Getting more employers to rethink their degree requirements will take hard work. Employees have grown up in a system where the four-year degree is the proxy, and that's a perception that is risky to do things differently. I completely agree. But the big question is, how do we actually change that mindset?

Chief Change Officer

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What's your take on making this shift happen?

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If I'm hearing you correctly, and I say this aligns with my own perspective as well, some jobs still operate within a value system where having a degree is essential. Take, for example, a two-year MBA. When I was on a call with Josh, I told him, you and I are both beneficiaries of a formal brand name degree.

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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I went to Harvard Business School, I went to Yale School of Management, and I even earned two MBAs myself. Now, I'm 51, turning 52 soon, which means I grew up in the 70s, in a world where the playbook was clear. Study hard, get a degree, work hard in a corporation, climb the ladder. That's success. That was the mainstream and proven belief at the time.

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

We are doubling down on this conversation. Today, I've invited his co-author, Deborah Perry-Piccioni. an entrepreneur, Silicon Valley insider, and best-selling author of the book Secrets of Silicon Valley. Before diving into the world of startups, Debra spent 18 years in Washington, D.C., working in the White House, on Capitol Hill, and as a political commentator for MSNBC, Fox News, and CNN.

Chief Change Officer

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And there was nothing inherently wrong with it because it worked in that era. But with the internet and new technologies, the world has changed. We're now exposed to so many more possibilities with different ways to achieve the same goal. if you want to earn a million dollars a year. There are multiple legitimate legal ways to do it.

Chief Change Officer

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In the past, one clear path was joining Goldman Sachs, earning a solid salary plus bonuses. And if it was a good year, you would hit that million dollar mark or even more. And that's still a path that works for some people today. But does that mean going to Goldman Sachs is outdated or not trendy anymore? Not at all. It's still the perfect fit for certain individuals.

Chief Change Officer

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The same goes for Google, any other top-tier company. It all comes down to finding the best fit for your needs, skills, interests, and strengths. I believe if technology can be open source, then career development can be open minded in the same way. In the end, technology is the enabler. It doesn't take how we succeed, but it empowers us to choose our own version of success.

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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So far, we've talked a lot about what we as individuals can do, how we navigate our careers and lives in this new era. But for employers, it's a whole different challenge. In your book, you lay out a full transformation map. And when I saw it, I thought, wow, that's a lot a company can do.

Chief Change Officer

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Let's say I'm the CEO of a sizable company and you and George come to me and say, Vince, there's so many opportunities to rethink and transform your organization. My first reaction would be, great, but where do I start? What would you advise me to tackle first? What's the one thing I absolutely must focus on before everything else?

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

But everything changed when she moved to Silicon Valley. Instead of politics, power, and division, she discovered a culture built on collaboration, innovation, and risk-taking. That shift led her to build six companies, write multiple best-selling books, and now co-found the Work3 Institute, helping businesses navigate the future of work. We're featuring Debra in a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Great. Now, last question of the day. But before I ask, let me share a quick story. A friend of mine has a niece, 27 years old. She still hasn't graduated from college. She's been stuck in school, hasn't worked a single job, not even part-time, not volunteering, not freelancing, not investing, nothing. Her parents, who are middle class, fully support her.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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While the title is Employment is Dead, if I'm hearing you correctly, this book is really a message to employers, almost a wake-up call With all the new technologies happening, the traditional value chain of employment is being disrupted, whether companies like it or not. And if they don't adapt, they risk losing their best people, whether to solo partnership, competitors, or simply disengagement.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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Is that the core message you're trying to get across? And is this the primary audience you are speaking to?

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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Sure. Now, I notice the book includes a story about how you and George met. Two people from different backgrounds who, according to the book, hadn't even met before. Yet somehow, this collaboration just clicked. From your perspective, what was the spark? What made you think, hey, this is someone I need to work with?

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

In part one, we explore her incredible journey from shaping policy in Washington, D.C. to securing venture capital through a chance encounter at a Starbucks. She shares how risk-taking, adaptability, and breaking the old rules shaped her success. Then in part two, we tackle the future of employment. Why degrees aren't what they used to be? How AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs?

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few days ago, we published a three-part series with George Dream, the co-author of the book, Employment is Dead. But we are not done yet.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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What does each of you bring to the table? I imagine there are similarities that made the collaboration work, but also key differences in your backgrounds and experiences that add unique perspectives. Can you share a bit about that, what you each contribute, and how those differences shape the work you're doing together as a partnership?

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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I had the privilege of reading through the book before it was published. Now, I'll be honest, I skimmed through a lot of it. Certain chapters really stood out to me, especially the one on credentials. Before starting my podcast, especially before COVID, I was deeply involved in the learning education technology space.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

1512.944

I was speaking at conferences around the world on the future of work, including South by Southwest. So when you covered credentials, education, and training, that chapter really caught my attention. Now, looking at one of the quotes from that chapter, he wrote, Getting more employers to rethink their degree requirements will take hard work.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

1539.829

Employees have grown up in a system where the four-year degree is the proxy, and that's a perception that is risky to do things differently. I completely agree. But the big question is, how do we actually change that mindset? What's your take on making this shift happen?

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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That's a web for today. We've covered Deborah's incredible journey from DC politics to Silicon Valley startups. and why the old way of working just doesn't cut it anymore. But we're just getting started. In part two, we'll break down the real shift happening in the workforce, why college degrees are losing the grip, and how AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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and what companies must do before it's too late. Plus, we'll tackle the big question. Is employment really dead or just evolving? Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

And what companies must do before it's too late? And of course, we'll answer the big question. Is employment really dead? Get ready for bold, eye-opening conversation. Let's jump in. Good morning, Deborah. Welcome to our show. You are the first interview I conduct in the new year. Thank you so much for your time.

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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You've had such an incredible journey from Washington DC politics to Silicon Valley startups, from entrepreneurship to authoring multiple books, building six companies, and now shaping the future of work. Looking back, do you see a common thread that ties all these transitions together?

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

We are doubling down on this conversation. Today, I've invited his co-author, Deborah Perry-Piccioni. an entrepreneur, Silicon Valley insider, and best-selling author of the book Secrets of Silicon Valley. Before diving into the world of startups, Debra spent 18 years in Washington, D.C., working in the White House, on Capitol Hill, and as a political commentator for MSNBC, Fox News, and CNN.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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It sounds like you're someone who's highly observant, sensitive to your environment, and deeply aware of the trends around you. You mentioned your background in journalism, talking to all kinds of people, reading situations, and understanding patterns. That skill set seems to carry over into how you approach opportunities. You spot gaps, see what's missing, and then take action.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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Whether that's building something from scratch, teaming up with others, or investing in solutions that address those needs. So in a way, your entrepreneurial mindset isn't about business. It's about identifying what needs to be solved and turning that into action, a product, or even a business model. Would you say that's a fair summary?

Chief Change Officer

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been involved in multiple ventures, which means you've experienced both the highs and the lows, the wins, the setbacks, and everything in between. Looking back, is there a particular failure or challenge that stands out? Something that, despite all your success, really tested you? Maybe at the time, it was frustrating or even painful.

Chief Change Officer

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But in hindsight, it became a lesson you carry with you, something that shaped how you move forward. You've rebounded, you're stronger, you're energized. But is there a moment that, while tough, still holds deep meaning for you?

Chief Change Officer

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You've been engaged in a lot of interesting endeavors. The current project is Work3 Institute, which you co-founded with George. Leading to this book, Employment is Dead. What was the motivation behind starting the institute? What was the driving force that led you to create it? I guess this goes back to the why. What inspired you to take this path?

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

But everything changed when she moved to Silicon Valley. Instead of politics, power, and division, she discovered a culture built on collaboration, innovation, and risk-taking. That shift led her to build six companies, write multiple best-selling books, and now co-found the Work3 Institute, helping businesses navigate the future of work. We're featuring Debra in a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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So the manager is the conductor.

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#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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All these ideas sound great, but when it comes to implementation, things get much harder. Like many great concepts, as and when they are put into action within big corporations or even small teams is the execution that often derails the original intention. From my experience, how can those listening, whether they are managers, CEOs, or others in leadership roles, effectively implement good ideas?

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I know this might be a big question, but I'd love to hear more about your perspective from an execution standpoint. Are there certain things a CEO or a leader should focus on to set the stage for success so that when they delegate the tasks to others, the implementation stays true to the original vision?

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are joined by Greg Morley,

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Yes, you are absolutely right. The visible involvement of leaders is crucial, especially in large organizations. That public display of support from the top sets the tone for the rest of the company. When the CEO or key decision makers visibly endorse an initiative, it creates a ripple effect.

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People take cues from their leaders, and if the leader is truly committed to a certain direction, it's much easier for the organization to align itself with that. Like you said, in these cases, talk is not cheap at all. It is an important tool to communicate priorities and demonstrate what matters.

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Execution might align with the people below the leader, but the leader's voice serves as a signal of endorsement. Setting the stage for everyone else to follow suit.

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Speaking of using the power of leaders and voices to emphasize the importance of DEI. It's true that DEI has become a politically charged topic, especially in light of the upcoming presidential election. There's been an evolution in how DEI is perceived, with some viewing it as part of a border walk movement.

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How do you address the misconceptions and misunderstandings surrounding DEI in this current cultural climate?

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First things first, starting with belonging. What do you mean by belonging in the workplace? And why is that important?

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My next question is, you've worked extensively across different regions. You're American, but now you're based in France. You've also had experiences in Hong Kong, Singapore, and China. With that kind of global perspective, I'd like to hear your thoughts on DEI practices. Through your eyes, what are some of the key differences between Eastern and Western approaches to DEI?

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Are there misconceptions or different ways to address these issues? It seems like a lot of focus, a lot of coverage on DEI tends to come from an American or Western perspective. Could you compare both sides, East and West, in terms of how they practice DEI, the challenges they face and how they tackle these problems?

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You are bringing back a lot of my own memories from the corporate world. Well, it may not have been related to DEI. I remember whenever there was a new policy set by the headquarters in the US, especially from the senior leadership, they would often say, let's do the same thing in Asia too. But we will push back and say, Asia doesn't work that way, is often seen as a monolith.

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But in reality, Asia is as diverse as Europe, with many countries, cultures, and even differences within a single country. Even when they say, oh, it's just the Chinese market, they don't realize the vast differences between Chinese communities, whether from Hong Kong, Taiwan, or Mainland China.

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And within Mainland China itself, people from the North, South, East, and West all have their own unique cultural dynamics. So a one-size-fits-all DEI policy transcribed from elsewhere just doesn't work in Asia. The diversity within Asia-Pacific requires a more nuanced, localized approach.

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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I agree with you 100% when it comes to belonging versus loneliness. Early in my career, I was immersed in big organizations, and it was all about work and climbing the corporate ladder. Belonging was seen as more of a soft feeling, something you didn't really think about much. You worked hard, made your boss happy, and got along Maybe you'll get promoted faster and better.

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Some would call it luck. Others would call it politics. That's just a normal corporate life. But when you talk about belonging in the workplace, especially now that you absorbed it and you've been involved in different cultures, I'm curious, why is it so difficult to develop a true and sustainable sense of belonging for employees?

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And how can we nurture that sense given all the complexities of corporate life?

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a leader in the world of human resources and a master of diversity, equity, and inclusion at Monette, Tennessee, one of the oldest and largest wine and spirits conglomerates in the world. Greg has an amazing story to share, covering the unique experiences that have shaped his leadership style and his strategic approach to DEI.

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As you were sharing. It reminded me of an incident from about 20 years ago when I worked at an international financial institution. At that time, I was a store employee. I received a lot of positive feedback from clients. I was sent to the headquarters for special training, first of its kind, and my boss rewarded me for all the hard work I put in.

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My clients recognized it, and I was working incredibly hard, 12 to 14 hours a day, seven days a week. I genuinely enjoyed the work. In your terms, I felt a strong sense of belonging to the role, to the company, and to my clients. The pay wasn't anything special, even under industry standards. But I was so motivated and invested in the work. Then something changed.

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my boss left, and her replacement had a completely different style and approach. I wouldn't place blame entirely on this new person, but we didn't get along the way I had with my previous boss. The entire culture and team dynamics shifted the vibe The chemistry, the sentiment, everything fell off. That's when I lost my sense of belonging.

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I kept working hard and professionally to serve my clients. But there was an internal conflict with my new supervisor. This eroded the connection I had felt to my work. The result? I quit the job, and it came as a surprise to everyone, clients, colleagues, even those at headquarters. They couldn't understand it because I had been such a hard-knocker, talented analyst. For them, it was a real loss.

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For me, the damage was deeper. That's when I experienced my first episode of mental illness, what we would call now burnout. And that burnout spiraled into depression. I'm sharing this now because it ties back to what you said about the sense of belonging or the lack of it.

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When that sense is lost, especially in a role where I had thrived and found purpose, the consequences were severe for both my career and my health. It was a perfect example of how critical belonging really is.

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Greg, let's start with you giving us a bit of an introduction to this book, as well as a brief background on yourself for those who might be tuning in for the first time. This will help the listeners understand where you're coming from. Before we get into the book's content, the lessons and the teachings you want to share.

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We've touched upon belonging. Let's move forward to talk a bit about inclusion. How would you define DEI? Or what does DEI mean to you?

Chief Change Officer

#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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In our culture, the way we've been taught, we often think that being a top-notch leader is all about having a flashy title, a fat wallet, and a ton of power. But we're in the era of change. Things are changing around us so rapidly. I believe the measure of success and what it means to be excellent as a leader has evolved. Now, excellence is all about resilience.

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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Lots of adventures, lots of failure, lots of success, and lots of resilience. Here comes my good old friend, Katie.

Chief Change Officer

#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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It's not just about how big your title, how rich you are, and how much power you hold today. It's about how well you bounce back from changes and how long the game you play into tomorrow. Katie, with that in mind, how do you view your leadership style? And perhaps what kind of leader do you see yourself as?

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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So Katie, you and I are Gen X, but you have another identity. You are a mother of two. They're both Gen Z. They're still in school, but at some point they will enter the workforce. In the office, you manage a wide range of generations. So as a mother and leader, leading younger generations. Can you share with us about your take on working with them?

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In today's episode, I'll be chatting with a dear friend from my Yale days, Katrina Curry, or as many know her as Katie.

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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ah, I'd like to learn more about your learning habit these days. We'll come back to you on this. But go back to your transformation, the changes you've gone through. So in your life so far, you've moved from Bulgaria to United States, from New York City to New Haven, Connecticut, then back to New York from banking into credit rating agency, and now into insurance in a growing venture.

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So throughout all of these different stages and forms of transformations, what's your approach to managing changes over time?

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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Katie and I share a background in risk assessment and measurement, well-trained and developed through years of working with banks, fund houses, and insurance companies. But when it comes to her career, Katie has taken her understanding of risk to a new level. stepping out of her comfort zone with a deliberate approach.

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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Mental toughness. The border term is resilience. Now, since you bring up the term mental toughness, so let me move on to the next question about the mental side of things. You and I come from a very strong business education background. And in business education program, we are trained to be highly analytical, strongly logical.

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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especially for business, but even when it comes to managing our life and career, we have been very thoughtful, but also very analytical, a lot of back and forth analysis, pros and cons. But we have our psychology, we're after a human and business education is light on that kind of training. So when it comes to your reinvention,

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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how you balance the logic side of you as well as the psychology side of you.

Chief Change Officer

#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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Like me, Katie has her share of navigating and overcoming multiple rounds of reinventions through diverse cultures. In her case, from small town to Big Apple, from Bulgaria to United States. from communism to Wall Street, from New York City to Yale School of Management, from established credit rating agency to a tech innovation company in the insurance industry.

Chief Change Officer

#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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Speaking of resilience, of change, of reinvention, a lot of people are risk-averse. If I keep using the risk concept, you know, they have fear of failure. They're afraid that they will fail. That's also another fear, fear of judgment. They don't like to be judged. They don't like to be questioned. What's your personal definition of failure and success after so many years on the Wall Street?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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You've managed complex operations involving stakeholders with different interests, agendas, and goals that sometimes, and especially in the unusual and intense time period, conflict with collective objectives. Now, at Yale, you're engaging with a wide range of groups. What is your approach to managing these multi-stakeholder relationships?

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#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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As you're well aware, this is crucial not only to the success of your role, but also to the impact you aim to achieve.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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I'll save the specifics for you to discover in this episode. Among many roles, George was pivotal in managing Connecticut's COVID-19 health response. For those interested in his contribution during that critical period, check out the YouTube link in the show notes where he hosted a press conference. Without further ado, let's dive in.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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A cliche question at this point would be, oh, Josh, what's your typical day at Yale? Well, I believe there isn't any typical day. So let me flip the question. Tell us about what are some of the things that you try to help with the Yale communities day in and day out?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we're talking with Josh Chabot, the managing director of Yale Ventures. You've likely heard of Yale University, but what about Yale Ventures?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Given your role in building and developing the innovation ecosystem at Yale, you interact with faculty, scholars. I presume a lot of MBA students from the Yale School of Management would come to you for guidance.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Considering the challenges, career challenges in particular, that MBA students face today, whether they are exploring corporate roles or interested in entrepreneurship, and with the tough funding market for new founders, what career advice would you offer them?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Behavior-related advice? What books would you recommend to those who are interested in entrepreneurship or already in entrepreneurship?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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This is the last question of the day, and I want you to give me your honest answer. You've had a very successful corporate career. Then you joined a startup as a professional CEO, eventually took them into acquisition. Then you joined the public administration to help them deal with once-in-a-lifetime crisis in human history.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Now, you are working at one of the most famous universities in the world to build and drive an innovation ecosystem. So what else is in your career life that you may want to do in your future? What may be the missing piece? Would it be perhaps at some point you will become a founder to found company, to build it, to scale it on your own?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Great, great news for everyone in the Yale Innovation Community. I really wish we had someone like you around when we were as a school. Josh, thank you so much for your time. Please come back and tell us more about the founder stories and the innovations activities happening at Yale, Yale Haven in Connecticut, also upcoming Yale Innovation Summit.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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For those of you who are unfamiliar with this event, this is an annual event usually happening in May. And this year will be May 29th and 30th with Chelsea Clinton as the keynote speaker. Just to clarify, this is not a paid ad. My podcast doesn't do paid promotions at this stage. It's definitely an event worth checking out, especially if you are close to the Yale campus.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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I hope to make it there myself next year. And Josh, come back to the podcast whenever you have time. You're always welcome here.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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I spoke with our classmate, Irina, in an earlier episode. She is founded and is now leading a new venture in the energy transition sector. Like you, she has made several significant career transitions since MBA. I find each of them fascinating. When I asked her about the common themes in her career moves, she said two things, self-starter and curiosity.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Before we dive deeper into each phase of your career, what have been your main drivers for exploring and trying new things over the past 20 years?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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You've got a strong background in astrology from your education at Yale, then as astrology consultant at IBM, diving deep into business strategies with solid logic. But when it comes to something more personal, such as career decisions, career moves, It seems like even for analytical minds like ours, there's a need to balance logic with psychology.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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If I have to use an economic term, it is about finding equilibrium between the two. Have you encountered any mental hurdles while trying to decide on a Korean booth? Or in figuring out if a decision is right or worthwhile? If you have, how do you navigate the psychological ups and downs in your career decisions?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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I'd like to explore more about your move from IBM to a startup. Early in your career, after completing your MBA at Yale, you started as a consultant at IBM. That was amazing. Remember that was 2002 after 911. A lot of us were challenged to get a full-time job upon graduation. Yet you got a full-time job offer from IBM. After about a decade with IBM, you move to a venture.

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#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Where, if I remember correctly, you were the 16th employee. What was going through your mind when you made the switch from a well-established firm to a startup that you needed to help grow? What was your gut feeling about the transition?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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It's a key part of the Yale's innovation ecosystem, collaborating with faculty, students, entrepreneurs, and local governments to drive all sorts of innovation activities. Yale Ventures, for example, helps scientists and scholars turn their inventions into real products. The commercialization process, so to speak.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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I bet you must have experienced a lot of cultural shock in this transition.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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You joined the public sector during a very interesting time from 2019 to 2022. You were responsible for Connecticut's COVID health response efforts. Can you share with us some of your insights from your experience during this period of time?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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A system in raising money, build teams, and support students in developing the innovation ideas. And a little personal note, George and I are both MBA alum from the Yale School of Management. We both graduated in year 2002. He chose a path in consulting. I went into finance. George's career has been nothing short of remarkable, filled with impact and challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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The COVID-19 pandemic was truly a once in a lifetime event that went beyond anything we've learned from traditional business or management textbooks. Reflecting on that unusual and intense period, what were your main challenges?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Using your consultant mindset and entrepreneurial experience, how did you address or mitigate these challenges as you learned and adapted to find better and more effective solutions for all?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Absolutely. You've answered the question with so much authenticity and truth in that. I like what you said about courage equals leadership. Leadership equals courage. Although some leaders mistake, misinterpret Being courageous, meaning that they can just do whatever they want without thinking ahead of potential consequences on them and people around them.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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So they are taking risks without being thoughtful about the consequences, the impact they create. That actually I call stability, not courageous leadership. I also like what you said about integrity. We've seen a lot of cases in business and politics in which leaders lack integrity in what they do and what they say.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Our world needs more leaders who are like you, who value as well as practice integrity in talk and in walk. Now, let's look at another C word, change. This podcast is called Chief Change Officer. Change is the central theme in all of our interviews.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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I know at some point in your career life, you've been a consultant in change leadership and management, working with a lot of senior leaders, CEOs, and the teams. Tell us more about your experience there in helping others to build a mission for change and to execute on it.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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But the corporate world couldn't contain her ambition for law. Irina transitioned from a comfortable corporate position during the credit crisis to spearhead new ventures, at some point becoming a change leadership consultant for CEOs and senior leaders. Then a few years back during COVID, she and her team were setting up a new venture.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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So much so about the change you've experienced and also what you believe in change. Now, let's take a step further to talk about another kind of change that you are really passionate about, which is energy transition. As we speak, you and your team are building a new paradigm in energy transition. Tell us about the vision of you and your team.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Whose problem you're trying to solve and what exactly is this problem? Inspire us, educate us. Like we're five years old. Tell us more about what you're trying to do at this moment and what's the impact you're trying to make.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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As we speak today, they are crafting a new paradigm in the energy sector. The mission is to disrupt the transportation industry in the States with innovative energy solutions. Towards the end of our conversation, Irina will share invaluable advice for the younger generation who are passionate about creating global change for the greater good. Here comes Irina Filipov.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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So basically, you are an all-in problem solver for me if I'm one of those transport companies. Is that correct?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Let me be a devil's advocate for the moment. If I were the CEO of a prospective client you're trying to pitch, you come to me with the full solution. One question, major question comes up in my mind would be if I rely on you to provide me with a full solution, what if something goes wrong? Basically, I expose myself to the counterparty risk of you that is not controlled in-house.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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So what would you say? What would you respond if I ask you this question? How you managed the situation, the set of risk that I may expose myself to if I sign up for your service?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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You are the chief operating officer in this venture. every day, you deal with all sorts of questions about the deployment of technology, the implementation of the business model, the risk management for a client and for your business, all sorts of things. As an entrepreneur, what excites you to move forward? What actually energizes you to get past the challenges to stay focused?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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What is your source of power?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Global change. This idea of creating global change, making impacts on others, building a better world for future generations or those, For grand purposes, a lot of younger generations, for example, MBA students, MBA graduates, they're all fascinated by playing a major role in changing the world for good.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Now, you yourself, as you mentioned, in your early part of your career, you were not satisfied with predefined career paths. You always wanted to do something different with your curiosity, with your self-starter mindset. So now that you look back as a seasoned leader, as a time-tested entrepreneur, as a change leader yourself, if you are now in front of a hall of MBA graduates and students,

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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What specific advice would you give to them in embarking on their career path?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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This episode tells the story of a self-starter who never settles, who is constantly in search of change, who combines curiosity and courage with a profound sense of integrity, now becoming a force for change. Irina Filipov, the COO and co-founder of an energy transition company backed by BlackRock. We met more than 20 years ago at Yale. We are MBA classmates.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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that link up all these different transitions and changes through all your career life so far?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Let me summarize. You are a self-starter. You also have a strong sense of intellectual curiosity. These two forces are self-reinforcing. You are curious about new trends, new changes.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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You're not afraid of breaking through barriers, try something new, something different to self-start, to get your curiosity fulfilled, but at the same time to move ahead of the game, or I would say to set up the rules of the game yourself. Yet, I think there's one missing piece. It's courage. It takes courage for you to venture out there, for you to self-start without knowing all the unknown.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Right from the start, her clear and persuasive way of speaking really caught my attention. It's not just that she is a well-trained diplomat, fluent in five languages. She possesses a clarity of thought and the ability to communicate her ideas with strong conviction. You will surely sense this conviction throughout our conversation.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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So in your eyes, what is courage? What is courageous leadership, especially for a woman leader?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Irina was born into a family led by a nuclear scientist in Russia. Yet her interests led her elsewhere, in particular to international relations and eventually a diplomat career in the States. Her journey didn't stop there. She wanted to pursue a business career, so she went to Yale and transitioned into the energy sector with BP in London.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Monet Tennessee is a diverse group with brands all over the world. Given this depth and breadth, diversity becomes a source of complexity. I can imagine that in such a multicultural, multi-layered enterprise, you must respect each brand's uniqueness while maintaining alignment with the firm's overall values. How do you tailor the DEI initiatives to manage this complexity?

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Next, as we dive into advancing the DEI agenda at Monat, Tennessee, Greg will share how he's been listening intently to the people who embody the heart and soul of the group's businesses, fostering an inclusive culture that's grounded in reality. In our third segment, we'll dive into the complexities of managing DEI across Monet Tennessee's diverse array of brands.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode, I've got a special treat for you.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Can you be more specific about a representative organization? What does it look like?

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Can you give us an example where the cultural shifts you've worked hard to drive within the organization have helped real people, your colleagues, take more control over their careers? How do these changes manifest in individual employee experiences?

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Greg will explain how he tailors the DEI strategies to respect and reflect each brand's unique identity. while aligning with the group's overarching corporate values. Lastly, we certainly can't overlook Greg's upcoming book, Bond. where he shares invaluable lessons on building meaningful connections, not just within the workplace, but in our everyday lives.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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When we first met, you told me about publishing a new book. The title is Bond. What drove you to write the first book in your life about creating a sense of belonging and bonding in organizations? How do your own experiences tie into the bigger picture of diversity and inclusion you lay out in your book?

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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please do share a copy with me when it's available. I would like to host you again to talk more about your book, your ideas. From what I heard, this book is not simply about DEI. The world of work is changing. Building bonds, building bridges, building spaces across individuals is not limited within the walls of organization. It's simply the basic need of human beings.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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I can see that your book applies to a lot of real scenarios.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Yes. And we will have more Chief Change Officers around the world. Thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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It's about fostering a sense of true belonging and deeper inclusion everywhere. So if you are eager to learn how to make your own laws of change and hear from one of the leading voices in human transformation today, you are in the right place. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Welcome. I'm very excited to have you on board. You are in the people function with a specific focus on DEI. Can you talk about how your early career experiences shape what you do today? What did you learn back then that still has implications and relevance for you being a people leader with a change enablement mandate?

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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You have been in the people function, in the HR function for long, but then you were in the commercial world for like eight years. Tell us more about your transformation or how your commercial experience prepared you going into the HR area.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Today, we are joined by Greg Morley, a leader in the world of human resources and a master of diversity, equity, and inclusion at Monette, Tennessee, one of the oldest and largest wine and spirits conglomerates in the world. Greg has an amazing story to share, covering the unique experiences that have shaped his leadership style and his strategic approach to DEI.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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You come from the client-facing and operational side. In your experience, how important is it for people leaders to work closely with other leaders like CFOs and CEOs? Can you share with us how this chemistry, this teamwork impacts the success of a modern day company

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Throughout your career life, you've been involved in the DEI efforts at different points in time. Now, at Monette, Tennessee, have your approaches to DEI changed over the years? Are there any big lessons you've picked up along the way?

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Let's explore what we'll uncover today with Greg. First, We'll discover how his early days handling customer complaints at call centers helped him develop empathy, quick thinking, and communication skills that became the cornerstone of his leadership at Disley, Hasbro, and now Monat, Tennessee.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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In advancing the DEI agenda, can you describe the initial challenges and strategies your firm faced? How did you begin to tackle issues like, for example, unconscious bias and change company policies to be more techoli-inclusive, rather than using DEI simply as part of corporate branding jargon?

Chief Change Officer

#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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At the end of the day, it's about knowing yourselves and being intentional in choosing the workplace culture that fits your character and values. If you thrive in office politics and it energizes you, a politically charged environment might suit you. But if that's not who you are, staying in such an environment could lead to frustration, burnout, disengagement, and lower productivity.

Chief Change Officer

#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is an old friend of our show, Jennifer Selby Long. Jennifer was with us in season three, episode seven and eight.

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#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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For those feeling stuck, Reflect on whether you can adapt without compromising your values. Ask yourself, does this place, does this environment truly support who I am and how I work best? If the answer is no, it might be time to move on to a place that aligns better with your strengths. It allows you to grow. Change isn't just about leaving. It's about finding the right fit to thrive.

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#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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An environment that is so vested in office politics only to find themselves in a similar situation at the new job is like running away from one problem only to land in another. that led us into a bordered discussion on toxic cultures and even the role office politics play in these dynamics.

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Until next time, take care.

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#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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We also touched on how some leaders or managers might unknowingly struggle with their personality disorders, which can contribute to these environments. Today, we are honing in on office politics specifically. Let's be real, who hasn't faced them? Whether it's subtle power struggles or outright maneuvering is something everyone has encountered.

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#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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Yet, when I type office politics into Google, I don't find as much as I expected. Maybe the term isn't as trendy, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't real or common. People might call it power dynamics, workplace dynamics, but the underlying issue is universal. Do you think having a hybrid work model might actually help manage office politics? Or does it make things worse?

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On one hand, with less in-person interaction, people aren't constantly grouped together, which might reduce some of the tension that can build in close quarters. It creates a bit of balance. You're not always in the office, so those dynamics don't dominate your entire day. But on the other hand, there's the behind-the-scenes factor.

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Those who want to curry favor with the boss could still do it privately in ways others might not even notice. is a different kind of politicking that could still cause issues, just less visibly. I imagine researchers are already looking into this shift and its impact on workplace dynamics. What's your take on how hybrid or remote work influences office politics? Does it shift the balance?

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Or do you think human nature finds a way to keep the same patterns alive just in new formats?

Chief Change Officer

#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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When I worked in corporate, I collaborated with people across different locations. Hong Kong, London, Singapore, New York, Australia, all over the place. Remote collaboration was the norm for me, even without smartphones at the time. While the system's words moved, politics was always present, whether locally or at the headquarters.

Chief Change Officer

#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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In the last 30 years, Jennifer has been helping tech leaders navigate the waves of tech evolution, leading and managing organizational change. But leaders can't successfully drive organizational change without being a master of their own personal transformation. So last time, Jennifer and I looked into the natural process of personal change.

Chief Change Officer

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Decisions made at headquarters, often driven by power dynamics, would ripple out and affect us in Asia Pacific Regional Office. You brought up the idea of some people being immune to politically charged environments. But I've also observed an other type, those who thrive in them. And here's where it gets frustrating.

Chief Change Officer

#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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In many organizations, it's not the most skilled or high-performing employees who stay. often is those who navigate all this politics best. I've seen this firsthand. Imagine you have three people, A, B, and C. A and B are top performers, far better at their jobs than C. But somehow it's C who sticks around while A and B either leave for better opportunities or are squeezed out.

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Sometimes bosses prefer it that way because they don't want to feel threatened. Leaders may say they want to hire people smarter than them to push the organization forward But in reality, jealousy, ego, and sense of insecurity often get in the way. A boss might think, why should I keep someone who doesn't follow my orders, even if they are brilliant?

Chief Change Officer

#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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Even when colleagues or clients sing the praises of these high performers, it can backfire. A boss who feels overshadowed might quietly engineer a way to push them out. The result? Talented, hardworking people leave feeling disillusioned and disengaged, while less capable colleagues remain. It's no wonder we hear terms like burnout or disengagement tossed around.

Chief Change Officer

#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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But at its core, it comes down to a lack of respect and recognition for those who truly contribute. This cycle is what I have observed and even experienced myself. Those who stay aren't always the best performers. They are often just the best at playing the game. Jennifer, what's your perspective on this dynamic? How do we address this to create fairer and more effective workplaces?

Chief Change Officer

#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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Office politics, as its core, isn't inherently good or bad. It is simply a reflection of human nature in group dynamics. When people come together to work towards a goal, there's always an underlying assumption that everyone is aligned. But in reality, goals often clash. When priorities conflict, tensions arise.

Chief Change Officer

#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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people start using alternative methods to advance their own objectives and agenda at the expense of others. Sometimes, this is when things like back-stepping, bad-mouthing, or other manipulative behaviors emerge. It's not the politics itself that's the issue, but how it manifests. Pursuing individual agendas can erode trust and create a toxic environment. It's a cycle.

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We also talked about how to manage self-doubt and self-sabotage. Jennifer, welcome back to Chief Change Officer. At the end of our last conversation, we talked about something that really resonates with everybody. How some people, when making career moves, leave a toxic boss or a harmful culture or

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One person's actions trigger another's defense mechanism. And before you know it, the focus shifts from collaboration to competition. Understanding this dynamic is key to addressing it. The question becomes, how do we redirect these energies back towards shared goals and healthier workplace relationships?

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Could you elaborate on the last point you just made?

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#213 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is an old friend of our show, Jennifer Selby Long. Jennifer was with us in season three, episode seven and eight.

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Do you think having a hybrid work model might actually help manage office politics? Or does it make things worse? On one hand, with less in-person interaction, people aren't constantly grouped together, which might reduce some of the tension that can build in close quarters. it creates a bit of balance. You're not always in the office, so those dynamics don't dominate your entire day.

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An environment that is so vested in office politics only to find themselves in a similar situation at the new job is like running away from one problem only to land in another. that led us into a bordered discussion on toxic cultures and even the role office politics play in these dynamics.

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But on the other hand, there's the behind-the-scenes factor. Those who want to curry favor with the boss could still do it privately in ways others might not even notice. is a different kind of politicking that could still cause issues, just less visibly. I imagine researchers are already looking into this shift and its impact on workplace dynamics.

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What's your take on how hybrid or remote work influences office politics? Does it shift the balance? Or do you think human nature finds a way to keep the same patterns alive just in new formats?

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Just now, we explored the root causes of office politics, why some thrive while others struggle, and how leadership behaviors often shape these dynamics. Tomorrow, in our next episode, we'll continue our series on office politics.

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If you've ever wondered why the smartest or hottest working people aren't always the ones who succeed, or why the best ideas don't always win, or why politics seem unavoidable. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media.

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I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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We also touched on how some leaders or managers might unknowingly struggle with their personality disorders, which can contribute to these environments. Today, we are honing in on office politics specifically. Let's be real, who hasn't faced them? Whether it's subtle power struggles or outright maneuvering is something everyone has encountered.

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Yet, when I type office politics into Google, I don't find as much as I expected. Maybe the term isn't as trendy, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't real or common. People might call it power dynamics, workplace dynamics, but the underlying issue is universal. So Jennifer, let's start with a two-part question. In your view, why do office politics exist?

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What factors contribute to the crisis in the modern workplace?

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#213 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part One

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In the last 30 years, Jennifer has been helping tech leaders navigate the waves of tech evolution, leading and managing organizational change. But leaders can't successfully drive organizational change without being a master of their own personal transformation. So last time, Jennifer and I looked into the natural process of personal change.

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Just the other week, I sat in a coffee shop. I overheard several groups dissecting what had gone wrong in their respective offices. It made me think, maybe I should bring this show to a coffee shop. Imagine all the real, raw discussions that could spark these lunch hours and coffee shop conversations. I call them unscripted water cooler moments where the true pulse of the office comes alive.

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It's where colleagues vent their frustrations, share unfiltered truths about the team, the boss, and all the office politics in play. now about leaders who treat the workplace like a chessboard, where employees are nothing more than pawns, moved or discarded depending on their usefulness. It's not so much about corruption as it is about cold, calculated strategy.

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For these leaders, it's not personal. It's strictly business. They justify their actions in the name of efficiency or the bottom line, if someone quits, they see it as an opportunity to reduce head count, not a problem to solve. They don't lose sleep over being called toxic. What's more, some leaders intentionally create competitive cutthroat environments.

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They think pitting people against each other will drive results. For employees, it often means distrust and endless office politics. That kind of culture impacts morale, collaboration, and long-term success. Jennifer Have you worked with clients who purposely planned the seats of office politics as part of the management strategy? As part of the management strategy?

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Or have you advised clients who have to navigate such politically charged environments? How do you help someone survive and even thrive in a culture that is shaped so intentionally and sometimes ruthlessly by leadership?

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We also talked about how to manage self-doubt and self-sabotage. Jennifer, welcome back to Chief Change Officer. Thank you for having me. I so appreciate it, Vin. At the end of our last conversation, we talked about something that really resonates with everybody. How some people, when making career moves, leave a toxic boss or a harmful culture or

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That reminded me of an other model often applied to organizations from the well-known organizational psychologist, Kurt Lewin. I've brought this up in season one, episode two, about Tim Pei-Ling's own transformation. His model is simple but powerful. There's the first stage, freeze, where you pause and assess. Then comes change, where you go through the transformation.

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In the last episode, we talked about the natural process of personal change. We also touched on self-doubt and self-sabotage. In this episode, we'll dive deeper. We'll discuss how neuroscience can help manage self-sabotage We'll explore how to make career moves that work in your favor instead of just jumping from one bad situation to another.

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Finally, there's unfreeze, where you solidify your new identity or the new you. So it's like freeze, change, and unfreeze. A lot of business school professors reference this model for organizational change. Are you familiar with this?

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In our last episode, we sat down with Jennifer Selby Long.

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Would you say that if someone gets stuck in the freeze phase but eventually manages to unfreeze themselves, it's a win? How would you personally define a successful change or a win when it comes to going through transformation?

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So far, throughout our interview, we've focused a lot on how you help leaders drive, lead, and manage change within the teams and organizations. Many of our listeners might be change leaders or change managers in their own spaces or organizations. Yet, the other group of people listening might be experiencing changes themselves. They could be considering making a change.

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or they may be forced to make a change because they've left their previous employer. You mentioned to me before that a situation often arises when people make a big career leap, sometimes wanting to escape workplace politics or ineffective boss. They might land a new job with similar terms, only to find themselves working for another ineffective boss.

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The goal, the real goal, is to make a change for the better. But these people end up jumping from one lousy situation to another. I know you got some really good insights about that, about how people should try to manage the situation differently. Even if they eventually decide to change jobs, they could and they should aim for a truly better outcome.

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Could you share with us some common mistakes people make when dealing with ineffective boss and how they might better handle the situation in order to set themselves up for more positive change.

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Thank you.

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Yes, absolutely. There's still so much to unpack. And not just when it comes to dealing with a boss, but also navigating office politics. These dynamics aren't just about one-on-one relationships. There are other players involved too. Interestingly, some people avoid using the term politics when discussing office environments.

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In fact, if you search for office politics on Google or LinkedIn, you won't find as much conversation about it as you might expect. But in reality, whether you're in a large corporation or a small team, as long as you're working with people, there's an inherent level of politics at play. And these politics play a crucial role, especially when it comes to driving change.

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You mentioned how some of your clients, including senior leaders, face power struggles or have to navigate complex stakeholder relationships. Power dynamics come into play, and as they think about leaving a job or dealing with ineffective boss, they also have to consider the bigger political picture they're in.

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I feel like this is an element often overlooked in the discussion of change management and leadership. Could you share your thoughts or experiences in helping clients manage these risks? How do you support them in balancing personal and organizational change? while surviving navigating the politics that comes with it.

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Until next time, take care.

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How do we deal with judgment? Judging ourselves? Judging others? Honestly, this aspect of judgment has come up a lot for me. In fact, in the second episode of season three, in which I spoke to Benedict from France, he'd mentioned the importance of being kind or kinder to ourselves. Yet we often forget that. Yes. If a colleague or someone else makes a mistake, I would say, it's okay, let's fix it.

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#212 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Backstabbing—Yes, It’s Possible

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She spent 30 years helping tech leaders navigate the ever-changing world of technology and lead organizational transformation. In recent years, her focus has been on cybersecurity, digital transformation, and user experience. but don't tune out if these areas don't apply to you. What Jennifer shares is relevant for anyone who wants to thrive in today's fast-paced world.

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No need to blame, just move forward. But when I make the mistake, what do I do? Yes, I fixed. But at the same time, I start blaming myself. I think, why did I make this mistake? What's wrong with me? I become harsh on myself, much harsher than I am with others. In those moments, I realize I'm not loving myself enough.

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This constant self-judgment can be really detrimental if we don't learn to manage it properly. Don't you think?

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Stick with me for 30 minutes and you'll find something valuable in this conversation. This episode and the last one is all about guiding yourself through personal transformation. It's about stepping into your next opportunity. Leaders can't successfully drive organization change without first mastering their own personal growth.

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Through all these years, you've worked with so many different people, each with their own unique characters and situations. I'm curious, looking back, can you recall any cases where you feel you didn't succeed in helping a client navigate or take charge of a change? By failure, I don't necessarily mean they disengaged with you, but rather the impact you aimed to create.

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didn't work out as well as expected. Could you share one of those experiences? More importantly, what did you learn from it? Why do you think it was so challenging in that specific situation?

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#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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I understand one of your key workshops focuses on failure, and you even coined the term Belfluencers, a blend of failure and influencers. I'd love to dive into this topic, but from a personal perspective, could you share your own experiences with failure? Not so much the workshops you facilitate or the lessons you teach, but your personal journey.

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How you've dealt with, navigated, and grown from failure over time. If you like, feel free to share specific stories and give us an overview of your journey with failure. Either way works.

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Tomorrow in part two, Erin will continue her story of failure. And she comes up with a magical way of navigating and rising above the failure experience. She called this method move on. Come back tomorrow and learn how to move on. Until next time, take care.

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#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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You mentioned as a teenager, you were determined to become a talk show host. I find that intriguing. Honestly, most people in their teens or even in college don't really know what they want to do, let alone something as specific as hosting a talk show. I mean, when I tell people I set my sights on getting into business school and earning an MBA at age 15, they often say, seriously? At 15?

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#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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It seems so young to have such a focused goal. But back to you, why talk show host? I imagine some might dream of being a news anchor or getting into show business. But for you, what was it about talk show hosting that drew you in? Especially back then, before podcasts even existed, what was the story behind that ambition?

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#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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So you're essentially in the business of joy. That's it, the short form. Not keynote speaker, not founder or CEO. If someone asks you for your elevator pitch, this should be the first sentence out of your mouth. Hey, I'm in the business of joy. Thank you, Vince. Yes. Let's say we're at a party. I introduce myself to you. Hey, I'm Vince. You reply, I'm Erin. Nice to meet you.

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Then I ask, what business are you in? And you hit me with, oh, I'm in the business of joy. Instant curiosity triggered. Naturally, I would say, oh, tell me more about that. It's such a great icebreaker.

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So no problem quoting that. I'm in the business of joy. And hey, I got it on record now. I promise I won't charge you for copyright yet. But seriously, something else fascinating from history is your first client. You mentioned you tried things out with United Airlines, UA, and eventually they pay you and everything took off from there. So what was that initial experiment with United like?

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From a young age, Erin dreamed of becoming a talk show host. Why did she choose that path? And how did her journey lead her to combine improv and business? I told Erin, you are in the business of joy. But beyond joy, we also talked about failure. Erin calls herself a fail-flu-lancer. a blend of failure and influence.

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What exactly did you do? I mean, Today, your business, Business Improv, is this successful franchise. But let's rewind to the beginning. What was iPhone 1.0 version of your business? What did it look like back then?

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Erin Deal, founder and CEO of Improved, a company that uses improv to help teams grow and thrive. Like me, she's also a top podcast host.

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What are your key performance indicators? How do you measure success in your business? And just as importantly, how do you identify areas for improvement?

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This two-part series dives into her unique approach to joy, failure, growth, and learning. No more waiting. Let's get started. Welcome, Erin. Good morning to you. Where are you exactly?

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#200 May Yeung: Art, Advocacy, and a Toddler Takeover in Hong Kong

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What were some of the things you enjoyed growing up in Hong Kong? Can you share more about activities or experiences that were particularly meaningful to you during that time?

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I remember that I actually took a photo with that piece and Vince, your husband, explained the significance of that dim sum container to me. Since Vince's family is in the restaurant business, he shared how dim sum plays a major role in Hong Kong's dining culture and overall culture.

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That really big dim sum container, especially made, as far as I know, was something you turned into a piece of art.

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#200 May Yeung: Art, Advocacy, and a Toddler Takeover in Hong Kong

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. I started this show in Hong Kong and I run the show in Hong Kong. I'm originally from Hong Kong, talking to guests from every corner of the world possible.

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May, tell us a bit more about your artwork. Are there any particular pieces that stand out to you? Ones that you find especially memorable and would like to share with us?

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This seems like the perfect time to talk more about art of my family. May, you've mentioned this charity a few times during our interview. is called Art of My Family, with my M-Y standing for your name, May Yeung. When I look at your website, you set various goals. Making art accessible, promoting social inclusion, fostering cultural exchange, strengthening mental wellness,

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So don't go away.

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and championing environmental protection. These are all very important agendas. Looking back over the past six years, I'm curious, how would you assess your progress? Of course, we've reached a stage in life where we don't just judge our achievements based on report cards. And you've mentioned that you used to be a perfectionist, but now have a different perspective.

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But if you have to evaluate your progress over the last six years, how would you rate yourself? And as a follow-up, looking forward, what else do you want to achieve? Are there areas where you feel you haven't done enough or where you believe you can do a better job? So it's a two-part question. First, assessing your past progress.

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And second, looking ahead and learning from the past to improve in the future.

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#200 May Yeung: Art, Advocacy, and a Toddler Takeover in Hong Kong

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Mei is a teaching artist. What is a teaching artist, you may wonder? And how does she develop her artistic journey? But before we do a deep dive, let us start with May's history. May, give us an overview of your history, your education, your life experiences, just to give us some perspective. Then we will explore different elements of your journey in the later part of our show.

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Speaking of mental wellness or well-being, it's important to acknowledge that whether in Hong Kong or elsewhere in the world, The aftermath of COVID, economic uncertainty, and other global challenges have created a lot of stress. These aren't just isolated events. They are interconnected factors that bring about significant changes. In my view, embracing change can be a growth opportunity.

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but also brings mental pressure and negativity, which can impact everyone's wellbeing. I agree with you that wellness is crucial for everyone from the elderly who have their own challenges to children who are the pillars of our future society. Often the mental issues we face as adults can be traced back to childhood.

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Something that happened in the family or during those formative years shapes how we see the world, how we behave, our mindset, and even our life and career choices. That's why I really admire your focus on intervening early in children's lives. The impact you're making goes beyond what can be measured financially. It's truly invaluable. For that, I applaud you.

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Now, I would like to wrap up our interview with a question that touches on the many roles you play. You run a charity, you are a mother raising a child, you take care of your own health, and you are a teaching artist with a wide range of interests. How do you balance all these different roles and responsibilities? And more importantly, what is your life mission now and going forward?

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The future is uncertain, the person is here, and the past is behind us. But when you set a goal for yourself, it's clear that you are fully committed and don't back out. So what would you say is your life mission?

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That's wonderful. May, I'm really looking forward to seeing more of your artwork at attending your exhibitions. As I mentioned, next time when your son picks up more words and expands his vocabulary, we'll have another interview. We'll do it entirely on video. We'll let him join in. That would be super awesome.

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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#200 May Yeung: Art, Advocacy, and a Toddler Takeover in Hong Kong

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You went to the University of Chicago to study visual art, along with another interest of yours, political science. I happen to know a lot of people from Hong Kong and China, including myself, who attempt the University of Chicago to study economics, business, mathematics, or physics. Yet, even at your young age, you purposely chose art as your major. Tell us more about the why.

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Why at that age you decided to pursue art as your major? Why you wanted to get serious about this field of study rather than just keeping it as a hobby or as an interest?

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You've mentioned to me before that music has had a significant influence on your journey as an artist. Can you share more about how music plays a role in your art world?

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In your career so far, you've explored various areas of art, like music, sculpture, and painting. But you've also spent a good amount of time in the corporate world, including investment banking and working for a tech company in the CSR or ESG space.

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#200 May Yeung: Art, Advocacy, and a Toddler Takeover in Hong Kong

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Yet so far, I haven't interviewed any guests from right here in Hong Kong. Today, that changes. I'm excited to bring a local guest to the studio, May Yeung, founder of the charity Art of My Family, a teaching artist, a cancer survivor, a mother to a really cute boy, and the wife of another Vince, who happens to be a good friend of mine. May has experienced many life changes over the years.

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What were your thoughts back then about gaining this so-called standard commercial and business experience while still pursuing your artistic ambitions?

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Speaking of perseverance, I can't help but ask about a significant aspect of your personal life. You shared in other media interviews that you were diagnosed with cancer at a young age and battled the illness for a considerable time. Could you share how this experience transformed or impacted you? Did it make you a more empathetic or artistic person? Or perhaps it had a different effect?

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How does this health and personal experience shape your journey? I think our listeners would really appreciate hearing about the life lessons you've learned from this challenging time.

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A near-death experience gives you a new perspective on life. While that experience is full of suffering, and we don't try to glorify it, it can also lead to personal growth. You came out of it as a better person, someone who embraces life more fully and finds greater happiness. And speaking of life, I know that in recent years, you started a new chapter.

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You got married to another Vince, who's also a friend of mine from the University of Chicago. And you have a son, a new life that you are nurturing. How is modelhood treating you so far? How has this experience, along with other major live events, impacted your perspective as an artist and in helping your communities?

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who this person is because look at his eyebrows like checking me out what is this what am I trying to do so that's artisanal and he just smiled so back to our original question about a new chapter in your life about a new life that you're nurturing about motherhood

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She's determined to use the power of art in her own way to change lives and create an environmentally sustainable, mentally healthy, and socially inclusive society here in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is not just about business, finance and money. May has chosen a different path to do well and to do good. And as a side note, we've got our youngest guest ever, May's 11-month-old son joining us on the show.

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#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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For everyday people, not just leaders or influencers, what advice would you give on cultivating a generosity mindset in daily life? How can we become more conscious of generosity and move beyond the mindset to make it a habit? So it shows up consistently in our actions and behaviors. Any practical tips for building this habit?

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How many people do you know who actually walk into a public restroom and leave it cleaner than they found it? I do. And so does the wife of our guest.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Yes, I actually add to that. I think it's really beneficial to use a notebook and pen instead of typing on your phone. Studies show that the act of writing by hand helps with analyzing, filtering, and clarifying thoughts, which can really benefit mental health. So I assume you're suggesting actual writing, not just typing on a laptop or phone?

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Yes. And about using the phone, I actually go a step further, jotting things down on my phone, but eventually I transfer it into a physical notebook. I know there's tech now that lets you write digitally and it saves to a notebook file. But I still enjoy the actual human art of handwriting. Writing really makes a difference.

Chief Change Officer

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It helps me feel better, connected, which is important for mental wellness, especially in a world that can feel isolating. Even if we're not meeting face to face, just connecting and talking is rewarding. For instance, podcasting has had a huge positive impact on my own mental wellness. It feels good to connect like this, even if it's virtual.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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So when it comes to practicing generosity, it doesn't have to be complicated. Unlike business, where we calculate ROI and financial budgets, the benefits of generosity, just reaching out, connecting, can be immediate and tangible.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Thank you. Thank you. Well, in fact, I'll send you my resume because if you are ever building a generosity empire, I would love to join your journey. Listening to you has brought back memories from my early career. I worked with senior leaders who were generous in their own way, nurturing and helping me without expecting anything in return. That generosity built meaningful connections beyond work.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Even after we all moved on, we stay in touch. Those relationships are rare and precious. And they've made all the difference in my journey.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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We made a two-part series for you. Yesterday, in Part 1, our last episode, we looked into Monty's personal experiences, his definition of generosity, and why he believes so strongly in practicing generosity as a habit. Today, Part 2, we'll explore what isn't generosity. why practicing generosity can be challenging in today's world, and how to nurture generosity-centered mindset.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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If you are still skeptical about how generosity can lead to success, join us for this conversation. We'd love for you to be part of the discussion. Let's get started. I have a couple of follow-up questions. You shared why generosity is important, your definition, what it means, and some real examples from people you've worked with.

Chief Change Officer

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But on the flip side, I'd like to hear about what isn't generosity. In your career, you've worked with a lot of leaders and teams. What are some behaviors or attitudes you've seen so far that you would say are the complete opposite of generosity Maybe things that shrug you as really rude. I think understanding the flip side would be helpful for listeners.

Chief Change Officer

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giving them a clearer perspective on what generosity isn't. It might even help them recognize, identify, and avoid those less generous behaviors in their own actions or interactions. Could you share some of those not so generous examples?

Chief Change Officer

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If you could stand on top of a mountain and shout to the world, telling everyone how essential it is, not just as a concept, but as a life approach that can truly change your life, make you happier, and bring more fulfillment, then why aren't more people embracing it? In your experience, why do you think we've lost the art of generosity? I have my own theory, but I'd love to hear yours.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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What's gone wrong in a society that some of us have either forgotten about it or never developed the skill at all?

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Like me, she does it because she wants to leave it better for the next person. So who is our guest today? Is Monty Wood, author of the book called Generosity Wins and the former CEO of Opus Agency, a creative branding partner for some of the world's most influential brands.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Looking at it from human nature. Greed is one of our seven deadly sins, as they say. We even got a movie called Seventh. Brad Pitt, wasn't it? While there's a lot that could be said about that, I would rather focus on how our present reality has impacted generosity. First off, Social media has changed how we see and interact with the world.

Chief Change Officer

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It affects how we conduct ourselves, often emphasizing superficial connections over genuine connections. Mainstream media adds an outer layer, often with their own agenda. pushing certain narratives that can cloud our judgment, especially around elections or other high-stick events. Independent journalism is wailing, and we're left with these biased perspectives shaping the way we think.

Chief Change Officer

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Then there's this trend of idolizing successful tech founders, especially among younger leaders. They see people raising millions, building billion-dollar companies, and assume they need to emulate every behavior to reach that level. But as you pointed out, even Steve Jobs though he had a clear purpose, wasn't known for his kindness in the workplace.

Chief Change Officer

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It's as if some tech founders believe they have to be ruthless to be successful, ignoring that generosity and empathy are just as essential to leadership and success. And this brings us to a big misconception with technology. Connectivity does not equal connection. We think that having friends or followers means we are connected, in quotation. But that's not true.

Chief Change Officer

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Real connections are much deeper and more meaningful. People text family members in the same house rather than having a face-to-face conversation. In offices too, I hear stories from friends who say, back in the day, we just turned to the person next to us to chat. Now, even when two people are seated beside each other, one would send a message instead of speaking.

Chief Change Officer

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All this technology has left us disconnected as human beings. And without real connection, the idea of giving generously without expecting anything in return becomes wearer. This disconnect is a big factor across all cultures and why generosity is harder to come by today.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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It seems to me that you are an optimist. You are hopeful about the impact of generosity in the world. Despite the challenges we've discussed, you genuinely and passionately want to help people become more generous. You share insights, you write, you publish books to get the message out there. Would you say that's accurate? That you believe we can still build a more generous society?

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Monty has worked directly with legends like Mike Benioff of Salesforce, Andy Gross of Intel, Steve Jobs, John Chambers of Cisco, and Andy Jassy of Amazon. From these leaders, his own mentors, and his mother, Monty has learned what generosity truly means, why it matters and how to apply it to life and career to become more successful, happier and healthier. Curious to find out more?

Chief Change Officer

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One where leaders and individuals alike can grow to be more generous, happier, and ultimately more successful?

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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The first thing that comes to my mind is if I'm being generous and generosity helps me succeed, doesn't that make it selfish? Does generosity leading to success mean there's some hidden self-interest? Is that why you're asking? Yes. If you ask me, selfish usually carries a negative connotation. When we call someone selfish, it's typically not a good thing.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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So when you mentioned that genuine generosity helps you become more successful, is that selfish? I would say no. I wouldn't use the word selfish. I would call it self-awareness. If I believe in the principle that generosity wins, it becomes part of my attitude and behavior. I'm following my own path based on principles I truly believe in.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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From the outside, people might think I'm focused on what I want, but it's more about knowing who I am and what I stand for. Maybe some could call that selfish, but I would just call it being clear and committed to my values.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How many people do you know who actually walk into a public restroom and leave it cleaner than they found it? I do. And so does the wife of our guest.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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I remember seeing the term generosity ROI in your book, meaning generosity's return on investment. We live in a capitalist world, and in business, we are always focused on KPI's financial metrics. But generosity is tricky to quantify. Like you said, don't expect a direct return. So it doesn't fit the typical model of ROI.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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We made a two-part series for you. In today's episode, We'll dive into Monty's personal experiences, his definition of generosity, and why he believes so strongly in practicing generosity as a habit. Tomorrow, we'll explore what isn't generous, why practicing generosity can be difficult in today's world, and how to nurture a generosity-centered mindset.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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And if we try to measure or track the cost and return of generosity, it starts to feel less like true generosity. But let's assume we want to monitor it. How do we make sense of this ROI? What does it really mean in the context of generosity?

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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You've mentioned before, when defining generosity, that there's a lot of misconceptions about it in the media. That's one thing. But tell us, why do you think there's so much misunderstanding about generosity in general? What are some of the myths you would like to debunk in this interview? Share with us.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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If you are still skeptical about how generosity can lead to success, join us for this conversation. We'd love for you to be part of the discussion. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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Just now, Monty shared his personal experiences, his definition of generosity, and why he believes so strongly in practicing generosity as a habit. Tomorrow, in part two, we'll explore what isn't generous. Why practicing generosity can be challenging in today's world and how to nurture a generosity-centered mindset. Come back for part two. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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Yes, I agree with you. In fact, when it comes to leadership, I always describe myself in two ways. First is about walking the walk and talking the talk. Second, I believe in servant leadership. I've been lucky in my corporate career to have worked for bosses who embraced this kind of leadership. They helped me grow, become a better leader, and they made me shine.

Chief Change Officer

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But in my mind, I don't necessarily call this generosity. I still think of it as an exchange of value. As a subordinate, I help achieve business goals, and in return, they support me, hire me, and take pride in recognizing my talents. When I perform well, it makes them look good too. It's not just kindness, it's mutually beneficial and drives business results.

Chief Change Officer

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So I guess what I'm saying is, I see it as a leadership style, but not necessarily generosity. Now, I'd love to hear your thoughts. What does generosity mean in the context of leadership, especially in the lessons you've learned from your mentor?

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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Like me, she does it because she wants to leave it better for the next person. So who is our guest today? Is Monty Wood, author of the book called Generosity Wins and the former CEO of Opus Agency, a creative branding partner for some of the world's most influential brands.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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As you were sharing, you brought back some memories of mine from my corporate days. 15, 20 years ago, maybe? A lot has changed since then. We had the credit crisis, then the rise of social media with the iPhone and everything that came with it. Then came COVID and now AI. But it's not just about the technology. It's also about mindset shifts and generational gap.

Chief Change Officer

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By that, I don't just mean the typical you're older, I'm younger kind of gap. It's more than that. Millennials, Gen Z, for example, they've become more vocal. Some of them may be too vocal. Then we got the even younger generation coming in. On the other hand, you've got Gen X, baby boomers. There's so much going on in the world that it feels like we've become less connected in a lot of ways.

Chief Change Officer

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Technology allows us to connect like how you and I are talking right now. We wouldn't have met if this tech wasn't democratized like it is today. I mean, even a phone call like this used to be very expensive. So yes, we are now connected. But I call this connectivity more than true connection. Because real connection takes time, patience, and effort.

Chief Change Officer

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For example, I always insist on a pre-call with my podcast guests. I want to get to know them and I want them to know me so that when we record, our conversation is more natural. I dedicated that time 30 or even 45 minutes. because I genuinely care about making a good show. Now in that case, is that generosity?

Chief Change Officer

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I'm not expecting anything in return, but at the same time, I know it helps me achieve a certain result. So would you say that is true generosity? Or is it more of a behavior with a specific goal in mind?

Chief Change Officer

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Of course, you want to make an impact. From that angle, I guess you could say it's a form of generosity because I don't really expect anything in return from the listeners. But I do care about that whatever I say or you say or any guest on the show says has some kind of impact. Even if it's just a minute, a one-minute impact for someone who listens, that would already make me really happy.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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Monty has worked directly with legends like Mark Benioff of Salesforce, Andy Gross of Intel, Steve Jobs, John Chambers of Cisco, and Andy Jassy of Amazon. From these leaders, his own mentors, and his mother, Monty has learned what generosity truly means, why it matters, and how to apply it to life and career to become more successful, happier, and healthier. Curious to find out more?

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm thrilled to be speaking with my Chicago MBA classmate, Gargan Sandhu.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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I really appreciate that before our interview. Despite his busy schedule, Gargan made it a point to thoroughly understand the scope of my show. He asked for examples and even took the time to write down his career insights to share with me ahead of time.

Chief Change Officer

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When it comes to the customers you've worked with, I'm curious about something specific. What's the persona of your ideal customer?

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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How do you position your company? Is it mainly a software development company?

Chief Change Officer

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In your industry, there's a new type of stakeholder known as finfluencers, financial influencers. The younger generation often turns to them for money management advice via social media. It's easily accessible, and they seem to crave all kinds of information.

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But there are growing concerns about potential conflicts of interest and the creditability of these influencers, especially since they may lack formal financial education. Given this backdrop and considering your goal to help people become more knowledgeable about managing their money, which also positively impacts their lives, What's your take on this trend?

Chief Change Officer

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How do you engage with these influencers, perhaps promoting a product? And how do you assist your clients in becoming better decision makers and effectively multiplying their money, as your tagline on LinkedIn suggests?

Chief Change Officer

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You've become financially independent and then decided to start this company to help others achieve the same. This makes me wonder, what does financial independence mean to you? I'm very eager to hear about your personal wealth philosophy. The term financial independence is heavily used online. In fact, often misused or reduced to just a buzzword.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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As we near the end of our interview, I think is the perfect time to ask this question. You made a conscious decision to leave a tech company in your 40s and dive into entrepreneurship. Yet today, many people in their 30s, 40s, or even 50s are facing layoffs and feel compelled to change their career paths. They are also concerned about ageism in the workplace.

Chief Change Officer

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Could you share some practical advice for these folks?

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Yes, it makes sense. But in recruitment, there's always a focus on cost. HR and CEOs might lean towards hiring younger individuals because they offer lower salaries, even though the older candidates might be more experienced and competent. Sometimes they come up with their own justification that younger people are simply more creative or tech-savvy. This happens quite often in tech ventures.

Chief Change Officer

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But I'm interested in your genuine perspective and practices. How do you interpret and apply this concept in your life?

Chief Change Officer

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Given that you run a tech venture as the CEO, would you consider hiring someone in their 40s? who's been pushed out of corporate life and is looking to start a new chapter by building a tech venture with you?

Chief Change Officer

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Gorgon. I've really enjoyed our conversation today. I know we've gone over time, but you have so much valuable insight to share. I didn't want to cut you off. I truly appreciate your time and all that you've shared with us.

Chief Change Officer

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Like many of my previous guests, Gargan is an immigrant who moved from India to the States about 20 years ago. With a mechanical engineering background, he began his journey as a grad student. About two years ago, he founded a FinTech company aimed at helping Gen Y and Z achieve financial independence.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Speaking of financial independence, I've always been skeptical of it, seeing it more as a myth or a marketing buzzword. In true Chicago Bulls style, Gargant and I will be exchanging viewpoints on this topic, agreeing to disagree while appreciating and understanding our different perspectives in a sensible manner. On top of that, Gargant will share invaluable insights on managing career paths,

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Let me share my take on financial independence if you allow me. Interestingly, I don't actually believe in it. And my reasoning isn't about the math. It's about human nature and psychology. We humans have desires at every stage of our lives. Whether it's craving the latest iPhone when we are younger or simply needing a functional phone as we grow older, our desires shape our financial behavior.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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I believe as long as we have desires, we can never be truly financially independent because our decisions are influenced by our pursuit of these desires and the financial means to fulfill them. Personally, I'm not just about numbers. I consider myself a philosopher at heart. despite studying finance and accounting and spending a decade in financial institutions helping people manage money.

Chief Change Officer

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I'm fundamentally a humanist. Life is not only short, it is unpredictable. We might plan to achieve certain things by a certain age, but there's no guarantee we'll have the time. So for me, it's about focusing on the present, like building a good show here. Yes, I need to make and spend money to sustain it.

Chief Change Officer

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But I do stress over really long-term financial plans because the future is, after all, uncertain. To me, managing personal wealth is less about math. and more about one's life philosophy, psychology, and the ability to tune out the noise and adapt to changes around us. That's my perspective on financial independence.

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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Monet Tennessee is a diverse group with brands all over the world. Given this depth and breadth, diversity becomes a source of complexity. I can imagine that in such a multicultural, multi-layered enterprise, you must respect each brand's uniqueness while maintaining alignment with the firm's overall values. How do you tailor the DEI initiatives to manage this complexity?

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Next, as we dive into advancing the DEI agenda at Monat, Tennessee, Greg will share how he's been listening intently to the people who embody the heart and soul of the group's businesses, fostering an inclusive culture that's grounded in reality. In our third segment, we'll dive into the complexities of managing DEI across Monet Tennessee's diverse array of brands.

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode, I've got a special treat for you.

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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Can you be more specific about a representative organization? What does it look like?

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Can you give us an example where the cultural shifts you've worked hard to drive within the organization have helped real people, your colleagues, take more control over their careers? How do these changes manifest in individual employee experiences?

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Greg will explain how he tailors the DEI strategies to respect and reflect each brand's unique identity. while aligning with the group's overarching corporate values. Lastly, we certainly can't overlook Greg's upcoming book, Bond. where he shares invaluable lessons on building meaningful connections, not just within the workplace, but in our everyday lives.

Chief Change Officer

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When we first met, you told me about publishing a new book. The title is Bond. What drove you to write the first book in your life about creating a sense of belonging and bonding in organizations? How do your own experiences tie into the bigger picture of diversity and inclusion you lay out in your book?

Chief Change Officer

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please do share a copy with me when it's available. I would like to host you again to talk more about your book, your ideas. From what I heard, this book is not simply about DEI. The world of work is changing. Building bonds, building bridges, building spaces across individuals is not limited within the walls of organization. It's simply the basic need of human beings.

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#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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I can see that your book applies to a lot of real scenarios.

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#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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Yes. And we will have more Chief Change Officers around the world. Thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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It's about fostering a sense of true belonging and deeper inclusion everywhere. So if you are eager to learn how to make your own laws of change and hear from one of the leading voices in human transformation today, you are in the right place. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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Welcome. I'm very excited to have you on board. You are in the people function with a specific focus on DEI. Can you talk about how your early career experiences shape what you do today? What did you learn back then that still has implications and relevance for you being a people leader with a change enablement mandate?

Chief Change Officer

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You have been in the people function, in the HR function for long, but then you were in the commercial world for like eight years. Tell us more about your transformation or how your commercial experience prepared you going into the HR area.

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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Today, we are joined by Greg Morley, a leader in the world of human resources and a master of diversity, equity, and inclusion at Monette, Tennessee, one of the oldest and largest wine and spirits conglomerates in the world. Greg has an amazing story to share, covering the unique experiences that have shaped his leadership style and his strategic approach to DEI.

Chief Change Officer

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You come from the client-facing and operational side. In your experience, how important is it for people leaders to work closely with other leaders like CFOs and CEOs? Can you share with us how this chemistry, this teamwork impacts the success of a modern day company

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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Throughout your career life, you've been involved in the DEI efforts at different points in time. Now, at Monette, Tennessee, have your approaches to DEI changed over the years? Are there any big lessons you've picked up along the way?

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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Let's explore what we'll uncover today with Greg. First, We'll discover how his early days handling customer complaints at call centers helped him develop empathy, quick thinking, and communication skills that became the cornerstone of his leadership at Disley, Hasbro, and now Monat, Tennessee.

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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In advancing the DEI agenda, can you describe the initial challenges and strategies your firm faced? How did you begin to tackle issues like, for example, unconscious bias and change company policies to be more techoli-inclusive, rather than using DEI simply as part of corporate branding jargon?

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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Let me share with you one live example, which is this podcast show. When I first started, it was a weekly show, one episode per week on average. Now, seven episodes, one week, which means it has become a daily show, one episode per day. Then some people joke with me. Hey, Vince, are you using AI for all of this? And my answer is simple.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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There's no tool out there right now that can holistically handle the entire process of creating seven episodes a week. Sure, I use ChatGPT to check grammar or refine some copywriting when I need a bit of inspiration. But beyond that, everything else is on me.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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I invite every guest personally, schedule pre-calls, talk with them for at least 30 minutes before actual recording, send follow-up emails, handle all the nitty-gritty details, and of course, host the show myself. This voice you hear, that's all human. Even editing every single piece, I do it myself with the soundtrack.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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I know there's so-called AI-driven tools that claim to pick segments for audiograms or do the heavy lifting, but honestly, I do it manually. I'm so immersed in each conversation that I know exactly which moments stand out and deserve to be highlighted.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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is a lot of human touch a lot of my personal footprint my single print in every part of the process and that's what creates the final product looking ahead i think the strategy for individuals whether in work or life has to involve finding the balance

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up. This one is a ride.

Chief Change Officer

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Along the way, we need to decide which parts of the process need more human touch, where monitoring, intuition, and judgment are essential, and then identify which parts can be standardized or delegated to AI to work faster with more precision and on a larger scale. That's what I see as a way forward, creating your own strategy for division of labor between the human and the machine.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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I kind of agree or disagree with what you just said. Lifelong learning is about the attitude, in my opinion. Lifelong learning isn't just about acquiring new knowledge. It's about figuring out how you learn best. Some people thrive in classroom settings or in-person workshops, while others prefer self-paced digital formats.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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The methods vary, but the goal is the same, which is to keep growing, to keep learning. When it comes to skill stacking, I see it as something deeper. You mentioned it's about purposefully merging diverse skills to solve complex challenges, and I think you're right. What's often missing isn't the means to learn, We have more access than ever to tools, training, and knowledge.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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The gap lies in connecting the dots between those skills and leveraging them in meaningful ways to multiply the impact. In my view, we are living in a tool economy, tool, T-O-O-L. Everything is about the tool. whether it's chat GPT today, Google yesterday, or whatever the next hot thing will be. The mindset is, if you have a problem, there's a tool for that. Need a solution?

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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Just grab a hammer, a screwdriver. What is the problem? Most of the time, those tools are just solving service-level symptoms. not addressing the deeper underlying issues. It's like putting a band-aid on a cup without treating the infection. Sure, the immediate problem looks solved, but the root cause persists, and people end up repeating the same mistakes.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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I see this pattern a lot, especially among knowledge workers. They buy into the idea of lifelong learning, sign up for courses, pay for certifications, and stack up all these skills. But they don't actually go anywhere with them. Why? Because the key isn't just acquiring skills, it's in connecting them, applying them to real-life scenarios, case by case, and solving problems with them.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge. In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries, seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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in an integrated manner. So the missing piece is less about technical skills and more about human skills, what most people call solved skills. Problem solving, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, communication, these are the connective tissue that make skill stacking impactful. Without them, you're just collecting tools in a toolbox. You don't know how to use effectively.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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That's where I think the future of lifelong learning needs to focus. Not just teaching new skills, but on helping people build the connections between them and apply them in meaningful, impactful ways. It's not about the tools themselves. It's about what you build with them.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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So you've been diving deep into AI lately, right? As someone with a strong background in change management and leadership, how do you see this technology shaping the future of change management and skills decking? What's your vision for where we're headed?

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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Destruction and wastage. It's just noise.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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One thing that many people agree on, but I don't think they are fully figured out yet, It's the importance of human skills in an AI-driven world. I like to call it human intelligence. In fact, that's the essence of this podcast. My goal is to elevate human intelligence by uniting global voices like yours. For me, human intelligence is about being experience-driven,

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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time-tested and grounded in real-life skills. It's about tapping into high-sight, insight, and foresight, exactly like the wisdom you shared over the past hour. And while we talk about human intelligence being crucial in the AI era, I think that's exactly what we are lacking.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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With all these tools, social media platforms, and tech innovations, people aren't developing essential skills like communication, which is at the core of human intelligence. So my question to you is this. Human skills are critical, but how do we bring them back? How do we nurture and develop these skills as we move forward?

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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Here comes the workplace to close our conversation. If one of your four children came to you and said, Mom, I feel stuck in my career or just in life. What would you say? They're probably in their 20s or 30s now, right in the thick of building their lives. And as we know, every generation is facing its own challenges in today's world.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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With all your experience guiding others, individuals, leaders, organizations, How do you bring those same lessons and tools into your own family life? Or do you blend in those insights in a subtle manner through how you show up as a parent, maybe even now as a grandparent? I'd love to hear how your work and wisdom show up in the most personal part of your life.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Rebecca Sultans, strategy coach, facilitator, and someone who's been running her own show for 27 years.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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especially for those who lead others in their careers. You want to share what you've learned, offer your support, maybe even pass down a few tools. But at the same time, your kids aren't your clients. They are their own people. So instead of controlling the outcome and even the process, it becomes more about preparing them, helping them view their own judgment, confidence, and resilience.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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And yes, that means allowing them to make decisions, even the wrong ones, and being there to support them through the consequences.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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Rebecca, we've covered so much ground today. Truly a lot, a lot of rich and thoughtful insights. Before we close, is there anything you'd like to add?

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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That's where we leave it. Rebecca doesn't offer tidy answers, but she does offer frameworks, metaphors, and the kind of permission a lot of us need right now. Reinvention doesn't mean changing everything. Sometimes it's just seeing your life from a new angle. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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You are one of the few guests, or maybe even the first, who has such deep experience on both sides of transformation, i.e. organizations and individuals. So I love to hear your take. What are the similarities between these two types of change? And just as important, what are the differences?

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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I feel like you're in a rare position to speak to both and probably one of the best people to break it down clearly.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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She trained for international development, hit pause to raise four kids, and ended up building a career that never stopped evolving. In this two-part series, we talk about the moments that change everything. Career profits, creative rocks, and what it really takes to keep moving forward without burning out. Rebecca's story is sharp, honest, and refreshingly unpolished. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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Earlier, you said something that really stuck with me, that history is a springboard to the future, not a drag or inertia. It made me think of the comfort zone. Sometimes that zone becomes so comfortable, people don't want to leave it. Given your own life experience, Raising four children, now with two grandchildren. You've lived through many transitions yourself.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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So when you work with people who are in that more mature stage of life, how do you help them reimagine, gain clarity, and actually take action? How do you get them to use their past as a launchpad Not a reason to stay seated in the same old armchair.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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Good morning, Rebecca. Welcome to the show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Finally, talking to someone from Canada again.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Rebecca Sultans, strategy coach, facilitator, and someone who's been running her own show for 27 years.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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Let me try to summarize. Corrupt me if I'm wrong. First, reimagined is about creating a vision. But many people either don't have a clear vision, or if they do, it's not specific enough. That's where you step in. Help them define it, make it real, and break it down into something they can actually see and articulate. Then comes the reassurance, like getting a personal trainer.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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They're not just paying for the gym. They're paying for someone to keep them accountable, motivated, and moving forward. That's the role you play, helping them stay disciplined, reminding them that it's hard but doable, and that the result is worth it. You also bring in tools not just to help them execute, but to make sure the progress is sustainable.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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And this applies not just to individuals, but also to organizations. Sometimes the organization knows it wants to change, but doesn't even know what needs to change. You help them discover that first and then guide them through the process. together, right?

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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That's it for today. We've covered Rebecca's own private PAC journey, from global work to solo primary life. But next, we get into what she's learned from helping others through their turning points. In part two, we talk about drawing the future before chasing it, finding momentum when motivation is gone missing, and why midlife might be the best time to reimagine everything. See you there.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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What made you decide to start that practice? Was there a specific moment or experience that sparked it?

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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When I look at your website, it honestly feels like you cover everything, especially for large institutions. I saw the range. Schools, higher ed institutions, government agencies, private companies. You work with executives, you work with individuals, you've published a book, you've got a book club, and even what looks like off-site coaching programs or retreats coming up. That's a lot.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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And I imagine you did not launch with everything all at once. You probably went through your own transitions. testing, adjusting, evolving the whole practice over time. So rather than diving into all 27 years, we need a whole series for that, maybe just share a bit about the journey of building this practice. What were some of the major turning points?

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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Were there moments where you had to start over or rebuild from scratch? Anything that really shaped the way your work looks today, especially while helping others through their transitions?

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

65.501

She trained for international development, hit pause to raise four kids, and ended up building a career that never stopped evolving. In this two-part series, we talk about the moments that change everything. Career profits, creative rocks, and what it really takes to keep moving forward without burning out. Rebecca's story is sharp, honest, and refreshingly unpolished. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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As I was listening to your story, one word came to my mind. Actually, it's not even my word. It's yours. The word is re-imagine. That's exactly what you're doing now for your clients, for individuals, and you've done it for yourself too. You mentioned that first move, how you went somewhere, came back, studied, learned, and transformed. That's the process.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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It sounds like that spirit of re-imagining is at the core of everything you do now. But before someone even gets to that breakthrough moment, There are a lot of challenges, things that block them from even starting to reimagine. Whether it's mindset, fear, financial pressure, and just feeling stuck, feeling incapable, there are always barriers.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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So in your experience, what are some of the biggest challenges people face before they can truly reimagine their future? And as a follow-up, could you share any examples of how you've helped someone move through that stuck place and reach the other side?

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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We'll discuss the resistance to change because of poorly designed processes and how improving these processes led to much greater acceptance. We'll talk about the importance of empathy, curiosity, and ownership in driving change. We'll also cover how AI is reshaping education and the challenges institutions face in integrating this technology.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I welcome Dr. Bridget Burns from the University Innovation Alliance.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Lastly, we'll explore the crucial transition from education to employment and how her organization is helping students achieve better life outcomes. Sit back and enjoy this unfiltered conversation packed with insights and practical advice. Yeah, empathy, curiosity, and ownership are crucial for change. Like you said, no one really likes change unless it benefits them in some way.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Yes, I can't wait for you to announce the new goals because I can see this as a global issue for higher education institutions. Just a quick story to share with you. When you talk about career centers, I totally agree. And like a business, your clients are the students. But if the shop is set up in the basement, the customers won't go there.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Why not go to your customer directly, meaning the classroom, as you mentioned? From my experience, when I studied in the States, I attended Yale School of Management as an international MBA student. In the US, especially for brand-name MBA programs, they're all well-funded, have a lot of resources. From day one, they started talking about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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preparing us for interviews and summer internships right from the start. That was just in August and September. And they were already talking about getting our resumes polished and reaching out to potential employers and alumni for informational interview. At first, I found it very stressful, but it was crucial training. They immersed us in the mindset and skillset needed

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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So by the time we graduated, we were better prepared. I graduated right after 9-1-1, which wasn't an encouraging job market. But I acquired essential career skills during those two years, even before LinkedIn and other technologies were in place.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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I think this kind of preparation is vital for undergraduates, regardless of whether they are at a state, university, an Ivy League school, or anywhere else. At the end of the day, we study something we are interested in, and we want to use that knowledge to make money, support ourselves, and help others. We want to feel fulfilled.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Education is a crucial means for us to achieve our goals and contribute to the society. If there are hurdles that hinder the process, it affects the mobility and progress of society, leading to social and economic problems. Bridget, I really appreciate your time. I know we overran, but I didn't want to cut you off because you have so much valuable insights to share.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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I've learned a lot from you today.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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It also needs to generate collective benefits. People often ask, why does change? How can we make things better? Why does my contribution matter in this case or that case? How can I help? Maybe I can help more than you expected. Ownership isn't just about being informed or notified. It's about contributing to the evolution of the change and being responsible for the outcome.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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If the outcome isn't as good as expected, how can we work together to make it better? This sense of ownership, this power of ownership is so impactful.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Honestly, if I had an office and someone came in and said, hey, we are going to implement this change. And because of that, I'm going to move from my corner office to a shared desk in a large area. I wouldn't be happy either. I can totally resonate with that scenario. Speaking of humanity, there's one growing area we are all watching closely.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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AI is here to stay and will impact all areas of our lives, including education. There's a lot, a lot of hope for its potential in education. So for a change leader like you, the question isn't just about integrating AI into higher education, but how to make the best use of it.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Based on your experience working with these leaders and institutions, what could be the hurdles or challenges for the institutions in embracing and integrating AI into teaching, learning, and administration? How can they create a collective intelligence scenario that many people are looking forward to?

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Bridget and I met at South by Southwest when we were on the same judging panel for startups in education technology. That was a time before COVID. Many changes have occurred ever since. Bridget has navigated these changes firsthand in higher education.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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She's now leading a university innovation alliance focused on improving graduation outcomes for students from low-income families, a mission tied closely to her own background. In this episode, we'll explore how she convinced 11 schools to work together shifting the paradigm from competition to collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Your response is totally relevant, not just about AI. But in other matter, I want to get your take on before we conclude this interview, which is the student outcome. Youth help a lot of students. According to your website, over 68,000 from low-income backgrounds are expected to graduate by 2025. That's a significant achievement and an important KPI.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Now, given our discussion about AI, technology, and the job market, it's clear that the type and nature of jobs are changing rapidly. Ultimately, we go to college to get a job upon graduation. So, outcome for UIA or any school isn't just about graduation. It's about helping students achieve better life outcomes through education.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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From graduation to employment, this transition from learning to earning is crucial. In terms of UIA, what have you done to help students move from education to employment? Perhaps is there something currently in place or part of your future vision? Can you share with us what's happening at this stage?

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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We'll discuss the resistance to change because of poorly designed processes and how improving these processes led to much greater acceptance. We'll talk about the importance of empathy, curiosity, and ownership in driving change. We'll also cover how AI is reshaping education and the challenges institutions face in integrating this technology.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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Speaking of delivering outcome, I recall from one of your recent speeches that you mentioned people are not actually resistant to change. They resist poorly designed processes. Do you have any specific examples where resistance was due to a poorly designed process? And then once the process was improved, you started seeing more and more acceptance?

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

13.032

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I welcome Dr. Bridget Burns from the University Innovation Alliance.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

136.17

Lastly, we'll explore the crucial transition from education to employment and how her organization is helping students achieve better life outcomes. Sit back and enjoy this unfiltered conversation packed with insights and practical advice. Bridget, welcome. It's been a long time since South by Southwest.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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Yeah, empathy, curiosity, and ownership are crucial for change. Like you said, no one really likes change unless it benefits them in some way. It also needs to generate collective benefits. People often ask, why does change? How can we make things better? Why does my contribution matter in this case or that case? How can I help? Maybe I can help more than you expected.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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Ownership isn't just about being informed or notified. It's about contributing to the evolution of the change and being responsible for the outcome. If the outcome isn't as good as expected, how can we work together to make it better? This sense of ownership, this power of ownership is so impactful.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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Yes, the world has changed so much and so quickly in the past couple of years. We'll deep dive into many of those changes in your space, higher education. But first, I always start with the guest. The focus is on your change journey over time. So let's begin with that.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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Bridget and I met at South by Southwest when we were on the same judging panel for startups in education technology. That was a time before COVID. Many changes have occurred ever since. Bridget has navigated these changes firsthand in higher education.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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So you're now leading a university innovation alliance focused on improving graduation outcomes for students from low-income families. This mission ties back to your own background. You've worked within the system for a long time. You've seen the problems, experienced the frustrations, and reached a point where you decided this is it. You shifted the perspective from competition to collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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How did you go about convincing these 11 schools, their presidents and administrations to work together? How did the lobbying process unfold? It must have been like an entrepreneur pitching for investment. How did you make it happen?

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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She's now leading a university innovation alliance focused on improving graduation outcomes for students from low-income families, a mission tied closely to her own background. In this episode, we'll explore how she convinced 11 schools to work together shifting the paradigm from competition to collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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I see you as the chief change officer behind all the change leaders you work with, guiding them to maximize the success of their initiatives. But as the founder and CEO of your own firm, You're also managing change within your own organization, including hiring, scaling, and evolving as you grow. So how do you approach change management within your own firm?

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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Do you bring in independent consultants to guide the process? Or do you rely on your own expertise to lead and execute these changes? What does change look like from your side of the table?

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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I call this walk the walk and talk the talk leadership. I would like to bring you back and talk more about change. But next time, it will be on video. We're launching the YouTube channel very soon. So after the holidays, please come back, Nelly. Thank you very much for your time today. Yeah, that sounds great. We'll be happy to. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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you've had the unique experience of living and working across Europe, Asia, and now the US, which brings with it an incredible range of perspectives. Given your background and your exposure to diverse clients, I'm curious, how do you see cultural differences play out when it comes to people's reactions to change?

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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Even the concept of change itself, whether it is a mindset shift or a full-scale transformation, can vary dramatically across regions. Have you noticed any significant differences or similarities in how these cultures approach and perceive change? And how do you adapt your solutions to help clients tackle those cultural nuances more effectively?

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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Originally from Europe, she spent years in Asia, especially in Singapore, working across cultures. Now based in US, Nellie is the founder and CEO of Tiger Hall, a tech-driven platform helping organizations navigate change more effectively. This is part one of a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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When we first met, you told me some intriguing insights from your experiences. specifically why certain change initiatives fail while others succeed. He pointed out that there are common pitfalls that lead to failure and that understanding can uncover valuable opportunities to set the stage for success. Could you share with us some of those common reasons for failure?

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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Maybe you've seen recurring patterns, or perhaps you can recall specific examples without naming names of how these failures played out. And on the flip side, what approaches have you found to be especially effective in laying the groundwork for a successful change initiative?

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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In these episodes, we'll dive into navigating cultural differences across three regions, why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Let's get started. What triggered you to start this company in the very first place?

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm joined by Nellie Wartoff, someone I like to call the chief change officer behind change leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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Yeah, like you said, human nature is universal. Fear, ego, emotions, and office politics exist everywhere, regardless of culture, gender, or age. My friend's story about working in a big bank in Asia captures a common sentiment that is frustration about change management tools or processes that feel imposed rather than embraced.

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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She mentioned how the software forced employees to fit into its framework rather than adapting to their needs. And the feedback process, she described it as a formality where no one feels safe or motivated to speak the truth, just filling in responses for the sake of it. That sense of disengagement is palpable.

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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I'm curious, from your perspective, have you encountered similar resistance in your work? How do you ensure that tools or processes don't just check the box for change, but actually engage and empower the people they are meant to serve?

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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I can see why the legal mindset resonates with you and me. It's such a perfect metaphor for building a life, a career, even a podcast that's uniquely mine. You're not just piecing together blocks. You're creating something with purpose, using elements that feel authentic to you.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Just like how each brick contributes to a structure, every experience, every skill, every choice you make adds to your bigger picture. And just like a true master builder, you're following your own playbook, assembling a vision that's completely your own. Nina, I love how you've tied together all these elements, the successful timeline, the legal mindset, and the reverse resume.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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For anyone listening, whether you're facing a career transition, feeling stuck, and simply preparing for change, These tools can really help you navigate that journey. Thank you so much, Lena. Thank you for sharing your story and your wisdom.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. These days, we talk a lot about resilience. We can discuss the psychology of it all day long. But who actually walks the walk and talks the talk when it comes to resilience?

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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And instead of staying down, she jumped into technology, starting from scratch, and reinvented herself yet again. Yesterday, in part one of our conversation, we explored Nina's journey, her training, her tryouts, and her setbacks. Then today in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success. We are going beyond that. So let's begin this incredible journey with Nina. Absolutely. And I think that's a great point. For anyone listening, the takeaway here is to think outside the box when it comes to your skills and experience.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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We often limit ourselves to what we have always done or the industry we know, but those same skills can often apply in ways we wouldn't initially expect. In my own experience, A guest on the show, an executive recruiter, once told me I would meet a great executive recruiter myself. At first, I was surprised. Recruiting wasn't something I've ever considered.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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But she pointed out that my ability to support talent, connect with people, and bring the right voices onto the show demonstrated qualities that could be valuable in her industry. So, just like your own story, it's about being creative and open-minded when exploring new directions. Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to see what we are really capable of.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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So you've moved into technology, built a new version of yourself, and now you're out there as a solo entrepreneur, as an author, as a speaker. It's amazing to see how your career has evolved. As we're talking about transitions and career paths, resumes often come up. Traditionally, resume is seen as an advertisement, a highlight reel of achievements.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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But you introduced me to the concept of a reverse resume. Could you walk us through what that is and how it might help those who are considering a change or currently navigating a transition? I think it could be a powerful tool to help open up minds and see new possibilities.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Professional athletes. Today, I'm sitting down with Nina Sossaman Pope, a former professional gymnast, who started her journey at about four years old and went on to join the U.S. gymnastic team. In her own words, gymnastics is a perfect example of resilience. You literally fall down and get back up all day every day as you learn new skills.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Yes, this isn't just a single page. It's more like a notebook, something dynamic that we keep updating. It can serve us as a reminder, especially in those moments when we are feeling down, discouraged, or unsure. As entrepreneurs, there's always something happening, some challenge or setback. But when you can look back at your progress, it's a powerful reminder that you've overcome so much.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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It's just another bump in the road, not a showstopper. Just keep moving forward. Don't let it derail you.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Exactly. It's like you said, a mix of all your past achievements and challenges, marking different points in time, But the other side is blank, representing the future, open for you to shape. It's all about how you want to connect those dots and create your path forward.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Is that the successful timeline you mentioned to me before?

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Yes, exactly. That's the successful timeline. is a way to look at your life journey as a series of pivotal moments.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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That mindset became part of Nina's DNA, and it carried her through some incredible twists and turns. From the heartbreak of not making the Olympic team to leaving the sport for good after an injury, she faced one identity crisis after another. But she didn't stop there. Nina built a successful journalism career that spent 17 years only to be let go despite being a beloved news anchor.

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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But without it, scalability becomes a challenge. How does HAPI navigate this blend? How do you manage that balance between using technology to scale solutions while still preserving the essential human element that truly makes a difference?

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. who couldn't use a bit more happiness? This episode and the next dives deep into what it means to find joy and resilience in both work and life.

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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In this two-part series, she shares her journey of resilience, why she joined Happy Companies, and how she's working to enhance employee experience using technology, but without losing the touch, the human touch. In our last episode, we focused on Risha's personal story and career transitions.

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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It makes perfect sense. Let's conclude our conversation with a quote that you shared with me last time. The quote is this. Maybe the journey isn't so much about becoming anything. Maybe it's about unbecoming everything that isn't really you. So you can be who you were meant to be in the first place. I love it because it captures the essence of personal growth and transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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Richia, as someone who has walked this path of becoming and unbecoming, I'd love for you to share your reflections on this concept How can listeners, whether they are in a corporate setting, going through personal challenges or simply feeling stuck, embrace becoming and unbecoming, quote unquote, to break free and start their own journey towards happiness?

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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What advice can you offer to help them begin to unlock fulfillment and real change in their lives?

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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Today, we'll explore her role at Happy Companies and her vision for transforming the workplace, balancing tech innovation with genuine care for people. Let's get started and find some happiness. Great! Let's dive into happy companies. To kick things off, can you give us an introduction to the firm? What exactly does happy focus on and what's your role within the firm?

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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We only have one life and it's unpredictable. So make each day count. Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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Then from there, we'll explore the different aspects of the happy experience and what it really means to build a happy quote-unquote company.

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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I'm thrilled to introduce Rishia Cardiff, the VP of Partnerships at Happy Companies. Happy Companies is a venture focused on building happier, healthier workplaces. Rochelle brings over 20 years of experience in people management across major brands like Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft. And she's deeply passionate about talent development and employee experience.

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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Absolutely. I can see how your background makes you an incredible asset for a firm like Happy. When someone like you, with over 20 years in corporate America, joins the team, it's not just about the skills you bring. It's also about the invariable, unique insights you've gained from first-hand lift experience.

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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You've seen and navigated the pain points of the people function in large organizations, which position you perfectly to innovate solutions that can make a difference genuinely. So with all of that expertise and perspective, what is your specific role at HAPI?

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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As we all know, bureaucracy, corporate politics, and constant changes like layoffs and digital transformation can make it tough for employees to thrive and survive. Richier herself has navigated intense transitions. leaving a corporate role at Microsoft to pursue entrepreneurship, experiencing the loss of her mother, facing divorce, and raising her first child.

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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I totally understand where you're coming from. On one side, it's exciting to see technology enabling people-first solutions like Happy to reach and support so many lives. On the other hand, I must confess my skepticism about balancing the technology with the human touch. Solving people-centered challenges cannot solely rely on technology. When we do, we risk dehumanization.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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One of those layers is happiness, which can be an emotion, but also an approach to leadership and management. before we dive into your work with Happy Companies. I know you've experienced some major transitions yourself. Moving from a large corporation into a new venture is a big leap in itself. But on top of that, you faced some personal challenges along the way.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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Could you share what that journey was like? And how did you find your grounding to move forward even stronger?

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. who couldn't use a bit more happiness? This episode and the next dives deep into what it means to find joy and resilience in both work and life.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

143.211

In this two-part series, she shares her journey of resilience, why she joined Happy Companies, and how she's working to enhance employee experience using technology, but without losing the touch, the human touch. In today's episode, we'll focus on Rishia's personal story and career transitions. On Tuesday, part two, we'll explore her role at Happy Companies,

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Living in the present is not just a saying. It's truly a way of being. When we let go of the constant worry about what's next and really ground ourselves in what's happening now, every moment feels richer, more meaningful,

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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And like you said, it's not about being overly dramatic or anxious about what could happen tomorrow, but rather about appreciating what we have right here, right now. It's the small things, picking up your son, making dinner, enjoying a little downtime, that could mean so much when we approach them mindfully. That idea of the present being a gift really resonates with me too.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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I love that colorful panda quote for a reason. It's simple, but so profound. When we live in the now, we allow ourselves to fully experience life, and that's what makes it all worthwhile.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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Just now, Rishia shared... honestly about her own personal journey and career transitions. On Tuesday, we'll explore her role at Happy Companies and her vision for transforming the workplace, balancing tech innovation with genuine care for people. Join us again on Tuesday and find yourself some happiness. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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and her vision for transforming the workplace, balancing tech innovation with genuine care for people. Let's dive in and find some happiness. Rishia, welcome to Oshua. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Good evening to you.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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You spend over 20 years in corporate America with some powerhouse names. Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft, all in different industries. Could you walk us through a bit of that journey? How did your role and approach evolve across these big firms, especially since you've always been focused on people management and leadership?

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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You've worked at big names like Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft, each with their own well-defined structure, policies, and, dare I say, bureaucracy. I can relate because during my 15 years in large corporations, mainly in finance, I experienced a similar environment. On the one hand, as an employee, I appreciated the structure, the resources, and the weight that comes with a big brand.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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But when it came to handling people issues, especially from the employee's side of things, I often felt disconnected from HR. Many times, it felt like they were more focused on enforcing policy rather than truly helping employees. that KPIs seemed more aligned with executing company policies rather than supporting employee needs.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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I'm thrilled to introduce Rishia Cardiff, the VP of Partnerships at Happy Companies. Happy Companies is a venture focused on building happier, healthier workplaces. Rochelle brings over 20 years of experience in people management across major brands like Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft. And she's deeply passionate about talent development and employee experience.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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Given your extensive experience in people function within large companies, I'd love to hear how you managed this balance. How did you reconcile your personal passion for putting people first with the reality of representing and implementing firm policies, which sometimes don't always feel like they are in the workforce's best interest?

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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The people function is crucial, but it's also uniquely challenging. Unlike tech, policy, or finance, You can't just apply a formula or a quick fix to people issues. There are so many layers, emotions, personalities, motivations, incentives, and politics, all of which make it complex to navigate.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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As we all know, bureaucracy, corporate politics, and constant changes like layoffs and digital transformation can make it tough for employees to thrive and survive. Richier herself has navigated intense transitions. leaving a corporate role at Microsoft to pursue entrepreneurship, experiencing the loss of her mother, facing divorce, and raising her first child.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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So what you're suggesting is managing both the highs and the lows, the setbacks and successes really comes down to perseverance, right? I remember when you moved from Facebook or Meta to Tapest. which was called OYO. OYO, originally from India, a travel tech company. That was a fairly tough period of time. It was no joke.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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Tell me, how did you tap into your perseverance to navigate the company through the early days of COVID, then the Tokyo Olympics postponement, and then now back to what we might call normal?

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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And as a traveler, I can't get enough of the Japanese hospitality. In this episode, I'm talking with Ryota Tanasaki, the president and CEO of Tapest, who is innovating the Japanese hospitality industry. Ryota and I were MBA classmates at Chicago Booth. Since graduation, he's faced some fascinating yet unexpected career transitions.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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You used the word perseverance. And often leaders like to use another buzzword, resilience. I totally get the concept as I've had to practice resilience myself over many years. But as a company leader, how do you impart this mindset, this resilience to your team? I'm not talking about operations or technology resilience. I'm talking about people, the human beings around you.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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You might be incredibly resilient yourself. But if your team doesn't share that sense of resilience, it won't be reflected in the team, in the culture as a whole. Then the word resilience would just be a buzzword. So what's your approach to fostering resilience when it comes to building and managing your team?

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. We fly all the way from US to Tokyo, Japan. I've always felt a special connection to Japan.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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For those unfamiliar, Tapest was originally part of a joy venture with SoftBank in 2019, with the headquarters in India. It was rebranded and localized as Tapest around 2022, with Ryota stepping up as the CEO. Tebby means truffle in Japanese, as you can imagine, as successful as his appointment sounded. This appointment came during a very challenging time.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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So that's about the intrinsic motivation, the sense of mission, the sense of action. What else?

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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What you call astrology, I would say is a pathway. You or the investors have the vision, you execute it. But the people around you, they follow you. So in order to follow you, yes, they have a reason, that intrinsic motivation you've mentioned, but then you tell them, well, that's how we're going to do it. You call the strategy, you call the pathway, then you engage stakeholders.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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The employees, of course, one of them, investors, partners, customers. It's a multi-stakeholder development and management process. What's your third thing?

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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Yes, that is leadership by example. I would also like to see this as you getting closer to your customer. You really want to learn about the situation, the problems. And then you show to your staff how you win accounts, how you solve problems. If they're smart enough, they observe how you do it. And then they follow you. They take some of your best insights, the best lessons, and then execute.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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It's also a kind of quality management so that you can train up your staff to deliver. Let's extend on this topic of leadership by example. Leader, one kind of leader, which I admire, is called servant leader. You lead by serving. Another kind is you lead by coaching.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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So some of the best leaders I've worked for in my career life, they coach me on the side, make me become a better person, better leader. Now, I know that outside of office work, you teach marketing, social media strategy at one of the business schools in Japan. Share with me about your teaching experience as a faculty member.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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Leaders are like coaches, right? They're always helping others to learn and grow. Speaking of which, are there any books or resources that really changed the game for you? Maybe something you recommend to our listeners to help inspire them just as much as it did for you?

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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postponement of the Tokyo Olympics game and the COVID situation, both of which rocked the travel industry. Over the next 20 minutes, Ryota will share not only his own career transformation, also how tapest has evolved during an incredibly challenging period for travel. I'll attach the press release about the company's background in the show notes for those interested.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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I haven't actually read the book High Growth Handbook myself. But what you just said reminds me of something I do fairly often. I'm not big on texting or using social media because I prefer writing things down by hand. There's something about the process of writing. It involves a lot of thinking, reflecting, and analyzing.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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By the time I've written something out, I've already worked through a lot of the information in my head. And I also find that Even if I haven't figured out the problem, this process of writing, as I'm doing it, the answer comes through more naturally.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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Speaking of which, remember in our Leadership Capital class taught by Linda Ginzel, the social psychologist at Chicago Booth, she talked about how our brains can trick us into rationalizing or justifying our thoughts too quickly. She said, suggested that to think clearly we should write things down, not just to type it out, actually write it down by hand in its rawest form.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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That way, you can come back to it later, maybe a day or even a week later, and see exactly what you were thinking at that time. It really helps you work through your ideas and find solutions. Clayton Christensen. Yes, he's been my favorite author for the longest time. Sadly, he passed away around the start of COVID. That book you mentioned, The Innovator's Dilemma, is absolutely incredible.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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Without further ado, let's welcome Ryota Tanasaki.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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But there's another one of his that I love, which is how will you measure your life? I highly recommend it to all my listeners, no matter what role you're in or what job you're doing. Anyways, thank you so much for your time today, Ryota. I'm really looking forward to our next conversation. I hope it won't be over a virtual setup next time.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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Instead, let's aim to be sitting next to each other, enjoying some beer and good food in Tokyo. Thanks again.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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When I was starting out, I loved my friends heading off to business school with big dreams of becoming CEO one day. The plan always seemed pretty straightforward. Get an MBA first, then join one of the biggest consulting firms, McKinsey, BZG, to tackle a bunch of business challenges across different industries.

Chief Change Officer

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Then maybe at some point, they launch their own business or start climbing corporate ladder somewhere big, become the CEO, CFO, CEO somewhere. For them, MBA first, consulting next. But you kind of flipped the script a bit. You spent five years in one of the biggest corporations in Japan in a functional role in sales and marketing.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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then went into management consulting and stayed there for over a decade. Later, pursued MBA to get, I would say, some kind of extra edge. Now, before we jump into your experiences at Tapest, I'm really curious about your consulting days. Could you tell us about one of those projects? Maybe one that stands out as particularly memorable? Or that gave you some deep insights?

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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My first trip overseas with my family took us to Osaka, Nagoya, and Tokyo when I was just 9 years old. Later, during my first year at Yale MBA, I joined the first-ever study trip to Japan, where 15 of us explored Japan's business culture, visiting companies like Shiseido, Toyota, NTT Docomo, and the Japanese government, including the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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I spent two years with you at Chicago Booth as classmate, yet I've never asked you the next question. I'm going to ask you now, and you give me your honest answer. What actually triggered you to get an MBA at Chicago Booth at that point in time?

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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Ryota, as you were sharing your story, I did a quick Google search. Actually, three searches in about 10 seconds. I typed in change career at 30. I got about 2 billion results. Then I searched change career at 40. I got over 1 billion results. Finally, I entered change career F50. I found over 1.5 billion results. So altogether, roughly 4.5 billion results in 10 seconds about change career.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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I haven't done any other keyword searches. I'm sure if I go deeper, I'll find more interesting insights. So what does this search mean? It shows that at certain stages of our lives, at certain age, we are either compelled or forced to change careers, or we have a strong desire for change in today's job market.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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I would argue that we should embrace this change and be prepared to initiate the change on our own terms. In your case, you felt insecure. Some might call this a midlife crisis. I prefer to see it as a positive sense of crisis or a constructive insecurity. Why is it positive? Because feeling insecure drives you to take action. It pushes you to improve your security. It increases your chances.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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You fight for better job prospects. You move out of your country. You move out of your comfort zone. You went for an MBA degree. You network with people from different industries and countries. This expands not only your horizons, but also your opportunities, turning your sense of insecurity into a positive force in your life. Would you agree with my assessment?

Chief Change Officer

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I even wrote a paper about the Japanese economy and banking industry after the trip. Between 2017 and 2019, I've been involved in ACTEC Japan, an international conference on the future of education technology, where I've been featured as a speaker for three years. As a business professional, I'm always amazed by Japan's culture of craftsmanship and its blend of tradition with modernization.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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You talk a lot about business strategy that has been a major theme in your career life. Would you say you are equally strategic about every career move you've made so far?

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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How do you handle both setbacks and successes? People looking at your career might say, wow, you're incredibly successful. But we all know that behind every success, there are tons of challenges you've overcome. In fact, a lot, a lot of challenges. a lot of setbacks to support one instance of success. What is your philosophy for managing both the ups and the downs?

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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So how can Wang and his team provide solutions as remote and hybrid work models continue to change shape? Let's find out.

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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This interview feels super timely, especially with Amazon CEO announcing that starting in 2025, Corporate staff will return to a five-day work week. There's been a lot of fuss around this. So far, the reaction has been mostly negative. Some people say it's the end of remote work. Others say they will quit over it. What's your personal take on this?

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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Or let's imagine if Amazon invited you to help with this transition, how would you apply your leadership models to this situation? Maybe you can give us a quick overview of your models and how they could fit into Amazon's latest development?

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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This is really exciting, Vince. Wayne, let's start with a bit of your background. How does your past experiences make you the perfect fit to write several books about long-distance leadership and communication for leaders?

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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Here's my personal experience. Except for the first few years of my corporate life, most of my career has involved a good degree of remote or hybrid work. I've worked with colleagues and supervisors scattered across different locations. So I got used to working with people across time zones, staying up late or waking up early to make it work.

Chief Change Officer

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I've also experienced the evolution of technology from working without a BlackBerry, then with a BlackBerry, and later moving on to other devices. now as an entrepreneur to work with people from all over. I've noticed that in the US, remote work has become a very contentious issue. Whereas here in Asia or in Hong Kong is a different story. Hong Kong is a dense, highly populated city.

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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And the concept of remote work doesn't carry the same weight. Many people just head back to the office as the living spaces here are typically smaller than in the U.S. For those with families or children, the office actually becomes the preferred place to get work done.

Chief Change Officer

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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What exactly does long-distance leadership mean? How would you define it?

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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Today, I'm sitting down with Wayne Turmal to dive into a crucial topic, long-distance leadership, in an era where communication technology is rapidly evolving for both workers and leaders. Yes, you heard that right. Long-distance leadership, not long-distance relationships.

Chief Change Officer

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How have these changes helped or disrupted the way we lead and manage teams? In other words, how have you seen long-distance leadership evolve? What changes have you noticed in terms of how it works, how fast it's changing, and the direction it's heading?

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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For just like with any relationship, maintaining, nurturing, and fixing long-distance leadership is far from straightforward. This conversation couldn't be more timely. When we recorded this episode, Amazon's CEO had just announced that their RTO return to office policy for 2025. And so far, the media narrative surrounding it hasn't been exactly positive.

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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You've released a second edition of this book. Why now? What's changed since the first edition came out in 2018?

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In fact, there's risk in relying too much on technology. For example, collaboration. There are billion-dollar collaboration tools But in some ways, they're actually dehumanizing the way we work together. So at the end of the day, it's not just about having the right tools. It's about keeping humanity at the center, making sure we don't lose the human touch as we build and use digital solutions.

Chief Change Officer

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And that brings me to trust. You talk about trust a lot, and I agree with you, it's critical. But right now, trust in the workplace is fragile. Employees don't trust their employers, especially with all the layoffs, disengagement, and burnout. We see things like quiet quitting and mass resignations. So in a world where trust is fading, how do we rebuild it?

Chief Change Officer

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From your perspective, what mindsets or habits help strengthen trust in the workplace? What can leaders do to make trust real again?

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Yeah, some people use another analogy, which is insurance policy. You keep contributing, and at some point something happens, and that's how you're supposed to draw on the policy to cover the downside of that situation.

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are talking about leadership, trust, and why AI still can do what humans do best.

Chief Change Officer

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Yeah. Like you mentioned, so much of what we've talked about comes down to human nature, which is universal. It doesn't matter where you're from, your culture, your background. These workplace challenges exist everywhere. That's actually one of the reasons I created this show. To engage people from all walks of life, from different parts of the world.

Chief Change Officer

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I like to call them human intelligence. We live in a world where AI drives the conversation every day. It's about artificial intelligence. But what I've noticed over the past 10 to 15 years is a huge decline in human intelligence. I don't just mean things like empathy or resilience. I'm talking about basic skills such as speaking, writing, listening. We have ears, we have eyes, we have a mouth.

Chief Change Officer

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Because burnout, disengagement, and workplace struggles aren't just happening in the U.S. They are happening everywhere. The difference? In some places, people just don't express it as openly as Americans do. They might not say, I'm quitting my job tomorrow, but that doesn't mean they aren't feeling the same pressure. That's why I've really enjoyed this conversation.

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These are real global challenges. So as we conclude, let's go back to the seven habits. Each of them is important. But if someone wanted to start with just one, the foundation of all seven, the habit that if mastered properly would make it easier to develop the rest. Which one would it be and why?

Chief Change Officer

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But what matters is knowing what to focus on, where to put your energy, and what truly deserves your attention. Being effective, whether as a person, a leader, or in any role, isn't just about doing more or doing things faster. It's about doing the right things. And that brings us full circle to what effectiveness really means. Putting your energy into what matters most.

Chief Change Officer

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At the end of the day, it comes down to being human. Practicing human skills. Using our eyes to observe. Our ears to listen. Our voices to communicate. These are what make us unique as a species. Yes, AI is powerful, is an amazing tool, but it's just that, a tool. I actually spoke with another guest about this recently. How moving forward, everyone will need their own AI strategy.

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That's right, not just companies, but individuals. We need to be mindful about how we use AI, when to use it, and what we shouldn't outsource to it because we still need to develop our own skills, our own intelligence, and our own wisdoms. AI can assist, but we are the ones who bring meaning, creativity, and judgment to the table.

Chief Change Officer

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That's where I'll leave you. We've covered trust, leadership, and why human intelligence is the real key to the future of work. The real question now is, what's one thing you can do today to build trust in your own team? Think about it. Big thanks to Todd for sharing his wisdom.

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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Yet, so many people don't even know how to communicate like real human beings. Some don't even know when to say thank you or sorry. And now people are outsourcing their thinking to AI. Writing, which is so deeply connected to thought, analysis, and expression, is being handed over to tools like ChatGPT. I worry that if we continue down this path, we'll start losing the art of being human.

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What do you think? Is this a real risk? And if so, how do we stop it?

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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I am a Gen X. I'm 52, so I did not grow up in the digital world. I grew up analog. I was taught to write letters digitally. with pen and paper. If I didn't know a word, I look it up in a real dictionary, a thick one. That's how I learned English. No Google, no smartphone. Of course, as technology evolved, I adapted. I learned to use calculator, then a PC,

Chief Change Officer

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than Google when I went to business school. But the difference is, people like you and me had that analog foundation. We embraced new technology, but we already have those role and core skills built in. So even now, when I use AI, I'm very mindful of how I use it. I still write my own emails. I don't just say, hey, generate this for me. I don't want AI replacing my skills.

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It's really just a tool, no different from a hammer. But I worry about those who never had that training, who never built those basic skills to begin with. If they're not careful and mindful, they will outsource everything to AI without realizing they're missing out on actual self-development. And that's a real problem in the workplace.

Chief Change Officer

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We keep hearing how CEOs want employees with strong interpersonal skills. There was even an article the other day about HR leaders saying that they don't want to hire Gen Z because they lack social skills. So, Todd, if you were still a chief people officer today and you saw this trend happening,

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where younger employees aren't developing and refining core human skills because they over relied on AI tools, what would you do? How would you approach this issue? What can companies do to mitigate this before it becomes an even bigger problem?

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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My guest is Todd Davis, former chief people officer at Franklin Covey, a properly listed leadership training company. Todd is the expert behind the bestseller, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and I spent 30 years coaching leaders and managers on how to actually work well with people. In this two-part series, we get into the real stuff.

Chief Change Officer

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The next question ties directly to what we just discussed. We had the unique opportunity to experience life before the digital world, which of course reveals our age, but it also means we understand both sides, analog and digital. Now we are in a cross-generational workforce, but it's chaotic. If you listen to the media, here's what they say. Gen Z doesn't want to work.

Chief Change Officer

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Millennials are burned out. Gen X is getting laid off. Baby boomers are not retiring. Every generation gets labeled. Each has its own set of challenges. So I want to pick your brain on this. From your experience, how should companies approach the situation?

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And looking at the seven habits, do you think any of them could help teams and organizations take better control of generational diversity in a way that is more effective?

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Why most leaders think they are clear in communicating and giving instructions, but they aren't. How trust is built like a bank account. and why human intelligence is still the biggest competitive advantage. Oh, there's a wild story about these seven habits changing someone's life in the prison. Let's dive right in. A lot of what you talk about in your book, you call them skills, human skills.

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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I completely agree with you. In the digital world, we've become so used to relying on technology to solve problems. And yes, technology is powerful, but at the end of the day, it's just a tool. The other day, in another interview about AI, I said, it's not just about AI. Before AI, we had apps. Before apps, we had software. But to me, apps are no different from a hammer or a screwdriver.

Chief Change Officer

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We live in a tool economy. There's always some tools to fix something. And sure, tools are useful. I need a screwdriver when I need to fix something. But it can't fix everything. Now we're entering the era of AI agents. By the end of this year, we'll see even more AI solutions, both for businesses and individuals. They will solve some problems, but they won't solve everything.

Chief Change Officer

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And honestly, if we were going to do this properly, I would dedicate seven episodes, one for each habit. Because it's not just about the principles, it's about the practice. And with all the clients you've coached over the years, I'm sure you've seen some incredible stories of transformation. Is there one that stands out? Maybe a client who really struggled with one of the habits.

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Maybe they had their own reasons, their own roadblocks. But with your guidance, they were able to untangle themselves from that situation and fully embrace and practice the habit. Have you come across a case like that?

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I guess in today's terms, they call this active listening, or listening with curiosity, right? The reality is, some people don't listen at all anymore, thanks to social media. Technology has trained people to communicate in a one-way street, just saying what they want to say, without any real interest in what others think. If they get a comment they don't like, they just delete it.

Chief Change Officer

#245 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are talking about leadership, trust, and why AI still can do what humans do best.

Chief Change Officer

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Oh, this is hostile. I don't like it. But back to your point about real listening. Listening without judgment, without forming a response in your head while the other person is speaking. It's about being present, really hearing what someone is saying, stepping into their shoe. Maybe they're sharing a tough experience. Instead of immediately thinking, oh, how would I handle this?

Chief Change Officer

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Todd Davis is from Franklin Covey, a name that's practically a household brand in the U.S. When it comes to leadership training, Franklin Covey is like Starbucks. Everyone knows it. At some point, almost everyone has either read one of the books or attended one of the trainings through the employers.

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Or what advice should I give? It's about sitting with that story, feeling what they are expressing. And in a business setting that's even harder, we are trained to analyze, to problem solve. Someone speaks, and we instantly jump to, oh, here's what you should do. But what you are saying is we should hold back.

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Instead of rushing to fix something, we should focus entirely on the speaker, the situation, the thought, the emotions. And only then, if they ask for advice, do we step in with insights? After fully understanding. Not before. Did I get that right?

Chief Change Officer

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A lot of what you talk about in your book, you call them skills, human skills. I like to call them human intelligence. We live in a world where AI drives the conversation every day. It's about artificial intelligence. But what I've noticed over the past 10 to 15 years is a huge decline in human intelligence. I don't just mean things like empathy or resilience.

Chief Change Officer

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And of course, one of the best-selling books in history is The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. Honestly, who doesn't want to be more effective? But let's be real. Workplaces today are facing big challenges. So I want Todd to join me and talk about how these habits can help solve or at least alleviate some of these issues.

Chief Change Officer

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I'm talking about basic skills, such as speaking, writing, listening. We have ears, we have eyes, we have a mouth. Yet, so many people don't even know how to communicate like real human beings. Some don't even know when to say thank you or sorry. And now people are outsourcing their thinking to AI.

Chief Change Officer

#245 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part One

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Writing, which is so deeply connected to thought, analysis, and expression, is being handed over to tools like ChatGPT. I worry that if we continue down this path, we'll start losing the art of being human. What do you think? Is this a real risk? And if so, how do we stop it?

Chief Change Officer

#245 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part One

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That's it for today. We've talked about what makes leaders actually effective. But next, we're diving into the real human side. Why trust works like a bank account. The biggest leadership blind spots. And why most people don't really listen. Oh, and wait till you hear Todd's prison story. See you in part two.

Chief Change Officer

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Now, Todd, before we get into the book, I always ask my guests about their own journey, the transitions they've made, the paths they've taken. But your story is different. You've been with Franklin Covey over 30 years. You are truly a loyalist. Tell us about your journey. What led you to Franklin Covey? What kept you there for three decades? And how the role has evolved over the years?

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Then we'll dive deeper into the book and its impact.

Chief Change Officer

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Unlike your job, unlike your current job, your current role, if you guys are hiring again, let me know. I'll send you my resume.

Chief Change Officer

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Thank you. Now, you spend most of your career in the people function, serving as chief people officer for a long time. and even before and after that, staying deeply involved in people-focused roles. So while your title hasn't changed much, you've seen workplace challenges evolve over the years, both as the insider leading teams and as an outsider coaching and consulting with organizations.

Chief Change Officer

#245 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part One

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My guest is Todd Davis, former chief people officer at Franklin Covey, a properly listed leadership training company. Todd is the expert behind the bestseller, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and I spent 30 years coaching leaders and managers on how to actually work well with people. In this two-part series, we get into the real stuff.

Chief Change Officer

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That brings me to a natural question. what have you observed we can go a day without hearing about workplace issues such as downsizing burnout culture shifts every headline has something about the future of work from your perspective what's happening and why do you think the seven habits is not just still relevant but maybe even more critical today and in the years to come.

Chief Change Officer

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The Seventh Habits, the latest version is a revised edition of the original. What's new? What's been updated? And why was now the right time for a refresh?

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#245 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part One

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Why most leaders think they are clear in communicating and giving instructions, but they aren't. How trust is built like a bank account. and why human intelligence is still the biggest competitive advantage. Oh, there's a wild story about these seven habits changing someone's life in the prison. Let's dive right in. Todd, good afternoon. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

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According to him, in order to change, we need to first unfreeze, a stage where we understand the need and find the motivation to change. Second, change, the stage where you move towards a different behavior. Third, change, re-freeze, a stage where you solidify the change and establish that new behavior as the norm.

Chief Change Officer

#191 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part Two

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You mentioned that you are a keen learner. So can you suggest books that have helped you learn, helped you grow over time and move forward?

Chief Change Officer

#191 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part Two

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to solve problems and to be a better person. Every guest, they will suggest some books that have inspired them. So that's why I like to share their collective knowledge, collective inspirations with our audience. So that's the reason why I asked you about your source of inspiration. I'm also a keen reader. I've published two books and I'm writing my third.

Chief Change Officer

#191 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part Two

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So that's also a reason why I always like to share knowledge. I also like to learn from each other. Like you said, you like to learn from other people's stories. The issues you mentioned, mental health, aging population, I can't resonate with you more about aging, isolation. I'm also only a child myself.

Chief Change Officer

#191 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#191 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part Two

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Like you said, retired people, older people, they either stay with their spouse or live alone or live with a helper. Mental health, not only for youth, but basically for all ages. Women, 50% of the world population, yet not well-represented, under-empowered. So next time when you come back, tell us more about what you learned from

Chief Change Officer

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stories of people around you from your stakeholders, older members of the communities, but also members of the youth, as well as the women. Despite all these systematic issues, at the same time, lots of opportunities for us to drive change. Tell us more about those changes that you have over time pursued and how you are still in the fight for more changes for your communities.

Chief Change Officer

#191 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#191 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part Two

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In Pei Ling's case, in the first stage, unfreeze, if you recall in part one of our interview, I asked her specifically about the why, about the need and the motivation to change, from psychology to business consulting, from private individual to public officer. So the need and the motivation to change, figure it out. This stage is very personal. It's about you. You may not get 100% of the why yet.

Chief Change Officer

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80, 90%, that's already very good. Because in the next stage, when you're going through the process of change, you will get to know more about yourself. So you'll figure out more, but you do need to start with a good chunk of understanding of your need and the motivation to change at the early stage, as in Pei Ling's case. The second stage, change, is the hardest part.

Chief Change Officer

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We start with thinking of yourself, but then in the second stage, you have to go beyond yourself, go above yourself. You need to think like a social psychologist. Change behavior is a function of a person and a situation. In the first stage, you figure out yourself, the person, but what about the situation? What in that environment that helps you drive and sustain the change?

Chief Change Officer

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What factors affect your behavior? What are some of the negative reinforcement factors? Well, in Pei Ling's case, for example, attacks in person and social media. What are the positive reinforcement factors? In Pei Ling's case, she got the support from the political party. In your case, you work in a big firm. You got support from a boss, from a CEO, from a board of directors.

Chief Change Officer

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You are an entrepreneur. You got support from your investors. Good for you. But that's only one piece of the situation. In Penning's case... She went out there, exposed herself, faced the people, faced the challenges, trying to turn distrust into trust, to win the hearts and minds of people, get the buy-in in order to fit in. On top of that, she went for an MBA degree.

Chief Change Officer

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She tried to build up her knowledge base to become more business savvy. But it's not just the body of knowledge or the fame of the degree. A lot of people thinking of getting an MBA degree missed the point. It's the situation you got yourself in that makes a difference in your life and career. In Pei Ling's case, she was younger, had less business experiences, let alone international experiences.

Chief Change Officer

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But then, in those two years, she got direct exposure, direct interaction with people from all around the world, classmates who are more mature, more experienced from all walks of life, plus the professors. the deep knowledge in a lot of areas. Within two years, she built up not just the momentum of her growth, but the solid foundation for her to keep going on and on and on.

Chief Change Officer

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So that's the value of an MBA degree in her situation. not to mention about a very important ecosystem of support she has nurtured over time. When she refreezes as a competent woman leader to fight for the interests of her people, she got all of those elements in place. It's about her, but it's also about her. To recap, three-step model of change.

Chief Change Officer

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First, unfreeze, where you figure out yourself the need and the motivation to change. Second, Think like a social psychologist. Figure out your environment. Remember, change behavior is a function of a person and a situation. Figure out the strengthening and the weakening factors. Magnify the positive reinforcement factors. Downplay the negative reinforcement factors.

Chief Change Officer

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In some cases, the situation isn't just right for you, then get out of it. You don't have to get yourself stuck in that. Change your game. Get onto another stage for you to sing, to dance, to perform, and outperform. Third, solidify all of these change elements. They're self-reinforcing to each other, so you're essentially building yourself a wider and deeper foundation.

Chief Change Officer

#191 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part Two

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In her last episode, we look at how Pei Ling overcame the darkest period in her life, transforming from being a psychology major into winning the general election as the youngest elected parliamentarian. She discussed how facing biases related to age and gender has made her more resilient, both in terms of stamina and ability. A happy ending story for sure, but is that it? Of course not.

Chief Change Officer

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taking you from the older self to the future self in a much more sustainable and successful manner. There is no overnight success. That's just a myth. Any success, any sustainable success always takes patience, effort, and a deep process of change. Now, let's go back to Pei Ling's story. Let's look at her model of change, how she made her own law of change to play the long game.

Chief Change Officer

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I met you around 2013 when you started MBA. When I recall the statistics of our class, the average age was 37. You were among the youngest. What's the logic and psychology behind your decision to pursue an MBA degree after you got into politics?

Chief Change Officer

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How would you describe your two years experience studying with people who are from different walks of life and most of us are older, have different experience from you?

Chief Change Officer

#191 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part Two

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Oh, yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#191 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part Two

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Yeah, part of your growth process, you are always on call as a coach. elected member of the parliament, always community works, always on. And then you finish your MBA education, you move back to the real world, you got your private sector job, full-time job, you got this public duty, and you're a mother of two.

Chief Change Officer

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How do you balance, not just balancing your timetables, but also the roles you played? How do you balance all these different responsibilities and duties?

Chief Change Officer

#191 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part Two

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That's why we have part two, Before we dive in, let me share with you one golden rule of success in driving and sustaining change. Whatever change you try to make, lose weight, launch a new product, or even trying to stage a large-scale transformation project in your firm, this rule applies. This is a three-stage model of change proposed by the founding father of social psychology, Kurt Lewin.

Chief Change Officer

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You mentioned about women empowerment. Tell us a bit more about your work there, perhaps other issues that keep you busy, keep you on your toes.

Chief Change Officer

#190 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part One

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They may not say it in my face, but I can feel that they have their own, in quotation, reservation. I can relate to when you say it, but then in my situation, I have one less worry, which is social media. Your political career actually started around a time that this social media thing

Chief Change Officer

#190 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part One

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got more and more popular so promise what you got a lot of comments responses like every day every second so that is the kind of pressure that a regular human cannot just simply ignore it you have to kind of deal with it and judge what is relevant what's not relevant and what is actually noise what is actually a sincere comment i guess you learn the lessons along your way

Chief Change Officer

#190 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part One

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Pei Ling and I were part of a six-person committee organizing all sorts of special activities and graduation events. We spent time inside and outside the classroom in Singapore as well as in Chicago. Over the last 10 years, as a classmate, as an alum, as a friend, I've observed her growth. In my eyes, Pei Ling is someone who embodies the core essence of change.

Chief Change Officer

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I can definitely see this scene. Going back to some of the story you just shared, I guess over time, you change people's heart through your actions. Actions speak louder than words. As a public figure, you can, of course, spend your time responding to every single comment. That obviously is a waste of time because a lot of comments may not be relevant.

Chief Change Officer

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At the same time, silence is golden or I would say silence is equivalent to absence of noise. So if there's so much noise, you just learn to recognize what is noise, what is helpful to you and how you respond and how you respond sometimes with words, sometimes through actions. Time would give you the benefit of doubt. Eventually you grow and people see it.

Chief Change Officer

#190 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Speaking of change, I've made my fair share, 18 to be exact. One major moment was back in 2013 when I was 40 years old.

Chief Change Officer

#190 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part One

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That's the message you try to send to the world through the growth of your career.

Chief Change Officer

#190 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#190 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part One

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All the things I've mentioned earlier. Her story is a powerful reminder of what it means to own the change, to face the pain, and to emerge more resilient on the other side. In this episode, Pei Ling is going to share her incredible journey from psychology to politics. Why did she give up on pursuing clinical psychology?

Chief Change Officer

#190 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part One

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The year 2011 was a life-changing year for her, but in her own words, it was also the darkest period in her life. Facing in-person and social media attacks, dealing with biases relating to our age and gender. More importantly, how did she navigate through those challenges, make peace with them, and take control of her life post-election? Becoming the chief change officer of her own story?

Chief Change Officer

#190 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part One

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Let's dive in and find out.

Chief Change Officer

#190 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part One

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Before you got into politics, you were in psychology. Why did you give up on that?

Chief Change Officer

#190 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part One

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So you got into business consulting. Sounds like a good first job in your life. Yes. But then, what happened when you decided to get into politics?

Chief Change Officer

#190 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part One

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Would you say the move into politics was a big move for you? And you were a student in psychology. So let me flip the table to ask you about your own psychology. How did you feel about this change?

Chief Change Officer

#190 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part One

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I turned down a promising government job to take a leap of faith. I published my first book and joined Chicago Booth for my second MBA. That's where I met Pei Ling. our class had a meaningful mix of personalities. Pei Ling was among the youngest in our class. I was one of the most experienced.

Chief Change Officer

#190 Pei Ling Tin: A Life-Altering Election for Singapore's Youngest Elected Parliamentarian - Part One

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You're always on call.

Chief Change Officer

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You touched upon a bit about great election and after you being the youngest, also being a woman. So when you look back about your experience, how did you try to make peace with them, but at the same time, overcome these issues in order to do your job, also to take good care of your own mental health?

Chief Change Officer

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But by then, I already have over 15 years of work experiences in the business world and a seasoned MBA graduate from Yale. Yet, we all came together to be part of something special and monumental. We are the legacy class graduating in Singapore in the history of Chicago Booth, which was prepared to move its campus to Hong Kong.

Chief Change Officer

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In today's world, if you look at ageism at workplace, many media focus on so-called the older end of the population spectrum. Especially when you talk about like tech company innovation, over 40 or 50. According to a lot of media, these more mature, more experienced or so-called older people, they are less tech savvy. Now that is one narrative.

Chief Change Officer

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But I always believe that ageism is not limited to the mature people. It's for the so-called younger, which you just share your story with me. I recall in my days when I worked in finance in some of the biggest firms in the world. Men dominated, white guys, I'm being the Asian, I work overseas, I'm 20-something or early 30s.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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Nope, Mary's is all about making waves and driving positive change. So it's no surprise she's now teamed up with a rising star in the HR tech world. Let's talk about why this matters. Our job market right now is like a roller coaster. We've got layoffs, downsizing, companies flipping their business models on their heads, and AI stepping into the ring.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I've got a treat for you. We are welcoming back a familiar voice to the show, Mary Shea.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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I can appreciate that if I were one of those candidates, by the way, in your process, I totally appreciate the fact that someone senior like you and your colleagues got really involved in the process. Because if I join, if you offer me a job, I will be working with you. How you treat me is indicative of how I will be treated as a colleague. Okay, so yes, I do have a story to share.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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I don't usually share a lot of personal story, especially if I do interview because I want the focus to be on the guest. But this time for this topic, I do have a personal story. So if you could allow me. This recent experience of mine really got me thinking about the challenges and opportunities in the HR space today. So I was up for this senior position. and a big international brand.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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You know, one of those roles that asks for over 20 years of work experience. Exciting stuff, right? Now, here's where it gets interesting. The person interviewing me, a young HR professional, maybe two or three years out of college, and she asked me to join her on a Zoom call. She sent this request through a automatic recruitment system. So I replied. I said, yes. I picked a date.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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And now keep in mind, this isn't during COVID and we are in the same city. So I offered to pop into the office for face-to-face conversation. Well, she did not come back to me. Maybe it's because of the automatic system. Then when we got on the call, I once again mentioned to her that I would love to meet her in person.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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Throw in some political and economic curve balls, and you've got a recipe for a lot of people hunting for jobs. It's not just about finding work, isn't it? We are in this fascinating era where you might have four generations all working side by side. And AI is like this double-edged sword opening doors for some while others are wondering if it will show them the door.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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I reached out to her before the call, and her response was, Oh no, Friday is work from home. We just do the call. All right, I thought, let's roll with it. From the moment we started, I can tell she's just reading questions off a screen next to her computer. It felt like I was in some kind of robotic interview simulator.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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The questions were all over the place, barely touching on what the job was actually about. And I can tell you, some questions were inappropriate, touching upon age and generation. There, I'm thinking, where's the human touch in all this? It really left me wondering about the company's culture. If this is how they treat potential candidates and executives, what's it like to work there?

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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It wasn't exactly the best first impression. I think in today's world where competition for top talent getting more and more intensive, HR is not only for recruitment, for administration, for training. What sets one employer apart from another employer for recruitment of top talents? HR plays a very, very crucial role in the whole process. HR is the frontline ambassador for the company.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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My experience felt like a missed opportunity. It made me wonder, in today's market, do you think advanced tech and AI solutions might actually offer a more personalized and effective experience than human recruiters? especially when there is a significant gap in experience or multi-generational understanding? How do you see technology potentially bridging these gaps?

Chief Change Officer

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So where does it all leave us? What's the future of work looking like? That's exactly what we are diving in today with Mary. She's going to give us the lowdown on what's happening in HR and recruitment. Ready? Let's jump in and hear what Mary's got to say. Mary, welcome back.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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It's really good. As we speak, a lot of the issues I've raised, the solutions to these issues, the approach to dealing with and managing the risks of what AI technology can and will bring to the table are still being developed and explored. That's the beauty of change. Change is changing itself. We'll come back to this in our next episode together.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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Before we wrap up, I have one more question for you. We've talked about a lot of technological potential and advancements in HR for employers. Let's flip the table and talk about job seekers. Given your experience in this area, your read on this industry, What advice would you give to job seekers in this increasingly AI-driven market?

Chief Change Officer

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How can they position themselves better and stronger in the AI-driven recruitment process to become a standout candidate, for example, and effectively communicate the value, the real value to the employers? For this question, you and I know very well that using ChatGPT or any AI tool to create a 100% polished resume and cover letter is not the answer. So what's your advice? Yes.

Chief Change Officer

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You've had a deep career journey from being an industry analyst at Forrester to now collaborating with a rising star in HR technology. What drew you to this HR tech space? And what makes you believe we are at a tipping point for accelerated growth in this sector?

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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You answer one of the questions on my list is about networking. You and I started and built our careers before the digital age. So our training, our experience, involved a lot of human touch, a lot of personal touch. For example, cold calling, industry event, socialization, face-to-face, keeping in touch, in close touch with people before we had LinkedIn. The gesture of reciprocation

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Yet the younger generations, they've grown up in a digital era. So the definition of networking, the approach to communicating with people, to building and developing sustainable, meaningful relationships, so much different from ours.

Chief Change Officer

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100% agree. That's why I never see myself building a podcast, a show. I am building a community, a global community involving minds like yourself who is progressive about developing, evolving, and revolutionizing their careers, their future.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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If you caught our first season back in March, you might remember her from episode three and four. If you missed those, don't worry. They're still there if you want to catch up. But we'll cover plenty of ground today. Now, let me tell you. Mary's career path is anything but ordinary.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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Let's talk about HireQuotient, with which you are partnering in the U.S. market. I check out the website, they offer a full suite of solutions and products for businesses and enterprises. I'm intrigued by the idea of uncovering hidden talent pools. Can you walk us through how that actually works in practice?

Chief Change Officer

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I believe this is the, this is what you call a differentiation or differentiation factor in high quotient.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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We're talking a journey from classical musician to frontline salesperson, all the way to senior tech leader in sales and revenue enablement. Talk about range, huh? But here's what really makes Mary tick. She's all about using tech to shake things up in how we work. As she put it in her last conversation, she's not one for playing by the standard rule book.

Chief Change Officer

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There's a common belief that scalable HR tech solutions are best suited for lower-end, less skilled jobs versus higher-end, highly skilled and senior jobs.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm chatting with Michael Secreta, the insightful money philosopher and author of the book titled Money, Balance, and Joy.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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According to your approach, there are three types of change. Why does change matter in managing personal wealth?

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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build meaningful legacy, and manage life's financial curveballs with confidence. Michael, welcome to our show. Let's start with your journey, your money journey, your life journey, and your career journey.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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In our next episode, part two of our interview, Michael will take on Wall Street, the financial media and financial influencers, pointing out how they often miss the emotional side of financial planning. From risk tolerance survey that don't even account for real life emotions and behavior to the misleading advice all over social media, Michael gives a refreshing and honest opinion.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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Michael dives into the philosophy of financial well-being, showing that money alone isn't the golden ticket to happiness. He talks about the need for a balanced ecosystem, which includes monetary wealth, time wealth and social wealth. explaining that full fulfillment comes when all three work together.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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Your book is called Money, Balance, and Joy. Let's start with a all-time favorite question. In what ways and to what extent that money can buy happiness?

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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Tell us about your value systems in managing personal wealth. I believe you call this the total wealth concept.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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He also takes on Wall Street, the financial media, and financial influences, pointing out how they often miss the emotional side of financial planning. from risk tolerance questionnaires that don't account for real-life feelings to the misleading advice all over social media. Michael gives a candid and refreshing take. He also shares practical advice on how we can reclaim control of our finances.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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When we are not wealthy. Why aren't we unhappy?

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Given your knowledge of the challenges job seekers typically face, can you walk us through your process for helping them? Do you start with a mindset change or focus on the overall goal first and work backward step by step?

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest, John Gates, is someone who can help you get the most out of your compensation packet, especially when you are making a career switch or transition.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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So my question is, with all the emotion tied up in these discussions, how do we break free from focusing on old numbers and truly maximize our return when making a career move? Let's find out together. John, good morning. Welcome to our show. How did you end up where you are today? What were the key transformation points?

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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I recall you once described yourself as a prosecutor in the past, but now you see yourself as a defense attorney. Similar to a lawyer, a defense attorney, your fees are tied to the work done and the outcome, like a performance or incentive fee. The difference is the legal profession has strict rules and penalties for misconduct, for criminal behavior.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Give us a quick overview of your personal and career journey, both the past and the present.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Yet in your profession, in your area, there aren't government regulations or penalties. Basically, only self-regulated codes of conduct and ethical standards. My question for you is, how do you assure your clients that your recommendations are in the best interests and not driven by your economic incentives?

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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For those who may not be able to afford your services, may buy your book or listen to this episode for your insights. Can you give us a couple of pieces of actionable advice? Something they can use to help themselves ease the pressure and open up new horizons of thoughts before seeking professional help.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Thank you for coming, John. Congratulations on your new book. The title is ACT. your wage. I hope you enjoyed our interview.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you liked what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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You are a salary coach, which I see as an evergreen profession. Whether the market is up or down, you help people maximize their compensation packages. Many entrepreneurs, coaches, and tech founders start a business because they have faced the same problem. Learn the hard way and then turn it into a product or service.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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How has your own experience shaped your journey into salary strategy and negotiation?

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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When prepping for this interview, I skimmed through his book, It reminded me of my business school days studying negotiation. The concepts really aligned. Like in a negotiation, focusing on multiple elements instead of just zeroing in on one single number. But here's the challenge. Salary negotiations feel so much more personal.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Over the years, you've probably come across a lot of negotiation advice that you disagree with. What are some of the worst pieces of advice you've seen out there?

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Unlike business deals where you can stay strategic and detached, salary talks bring up fear, emotion, and anxiety. If you are a CFO or CEO negotiating a deal, it's different. You have a stake. but is not as personal as negotiating your own salary.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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Your book's first page is dedicated to quite a range of individuals and I want to read it out loud for the benefit of our listeners. This book is dedicated to introverts, people with ADHD, those on the autism spectrum, trauma survivors, strategy brain square packs, frustrated change makers, revolutionaries, a combination of rebels and revolutionaries. And lastly, thinker doers.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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In the last episode, part one, We looked into who Sarah is, what she's been through, and how her past has shaped her purpose today. In this episode, part two, we'll dig into the book, her why, her audience, her objectives, and her vision. That said, Sarah's story and her book aren't just personal. They are also deeply rational. She's packed it with tools, analysis, and a lot of business concepts.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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There are a couple of interesting terms there. So why did she choose this audience? I'm guessing you must personally resonate with these people. Maybe you were, or still are, one of them. Why did you dedicate this book to this specific group?

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This episode and the last one are for the introverts, the ADHDs, those on the autism spectrum, trauma survivors, strategy brain square packs, frustrated change makers.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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When it comes to business books, it's difficult to make a lot of money Unless you are already a big celebrity with branding, with resources for marketing, widespread marketing, a big publishing house behind you, and a strong social media presence. Even then, those thought authors tend to focus on board generic topics that appeal to the mass market because that's where the scalability is.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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For anyone familiar with business school models and buzzwords, you'll find her approach balances speaking to a specific audience while delivering real business value. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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But with your book, you are doing something different. You are speaking to a specific group of people, people like you, who you want to help and connect with. Sure, we might not have the exact statistics on how many people fall into that group, but it's bold. It takes courage to put in the time and money, hire people and contractors and say, I'm going to speak up no matter the judgment.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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And that's what I see in your book, a special kind of love letter. But one that's not just personal, it's also rational. You've got tools, analysis, and a lot of business concepts baked into it. For someone who is familiar with business school models and buzzwords, I can see you've really balanced speaking to a specific audience with delivering real business and economic value?

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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Is that why you came up with the title for this book, You Are a Astrologist? Was it inspired by your vision of democratizing astrology for everyone?

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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revolutionaries, that is rebels and revolutionaries combined, as well as thinker-doers. Why? Because our guest today, Sarah Lobkovich, is part of these groups. And she's not holding back anymore. In fact, she spent months writing two books that bring together her life lessons and business strategy experience to help us all wake up our inner strategist and achieve big goals. No BS.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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as I was listening to your story. First off, if we were in a studio together right now, I would give you a big high five. You really hit on something that's basically me. When you mentioned getting excited about an opportunity, putting in 200% of your time and effort only to realize They just want 20 or 25% from you, and they don't even appreciate all the extra thoughts and work.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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Yeah, that was me too, for sure. Thanks for sharing that, Sarah. But as I kept listening, I also picked up on something else. There have been quite a few moments when you were stuck or felt stuck. And it sounds like through a lot of self-discovery, you rose above those challenges and kept moving forward. Is that a fair way to summarize your evolution?

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This episode and the next episodes

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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will dig into the book, her why, her audience, her objectives, and her vision. That said, Sarah's story and her book aren't just personal. They are also deeply rational. She's packed it with tools, analysis, and a lot of business concepts.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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Now, you've written a book, or should I say you're about to publish a new book. The title is You Are a Strologist. Use no BS objectives and key results to get big things done. As you mentioned, you've been practicing astrology as a profession for years. Before we dive into your book, I'd like to talk a bit about the role of astrologist as a profession.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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When we are in a childhood, we usually say we want to be a pilot, a doctor, a lawyer. But the astrologist usually is not something of a so-called dream job. Yet, astrology consultants, especially in firms like McKinsey or BCG, often have this prestigious image attached to them. thanks to their branding and marketing.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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For anyone familiar with business school models and buzzwords, you'll find her approach balances speaking to a specific audience while delivering real business value. Let's get started. Welcome, Sarah. Welcome to our show. Let's dive right into your story.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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These firms have really crafted a perception around their consultants, hence the seven figure, eight figure fee. After spending a good amount of time in corporate consulting yourself, What are some of the biggest misconceptions about being a astrology consultant? What's the reality versus the myth? Could you share that with us, honestly?

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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Let's continue Sarah's story tomorrow, shall we? Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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How did you end up doing what you're doing now? Maybe we can dive deeper and go down memory lane. Where are you originally from? I know you are now on the West Coast in the United States, but let's talk about the early part of your life. Where did it all start for you?

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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are for the introverts, the ADHDs, those on the autism spectrum, trauma survivors, astrology brain square packs, frustrated change makers, revolutionaries, that's rebels and revolutionaries combined, and thinker doers. Why? Because our guest today, Sarah Lobkovich, is part of these groups and she is not holding back anymore.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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You mentioned that starting point in 2016. And here we are now heading into 2025, almost 10 years later. I'll let you tell more about about what these last 10 years have been like for you in a moment. But before 2016, like you said, you've gone through several transformation points. Transformations are unique for everyone. Even for me, each of those moments felt very different from one another.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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Looking back now, especially since people who write books tend to have reflected deeply on their experiences, I'm curious, what were some of those key transformation points or challenges you faced that really stand out to you? More importantly, how did you manage to get unstuck We are living in a world where so many people feel stuck in some way.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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So I think your story could really resonate with anyone who might be going through that right now.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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In fact, she's spent months writing two books that bring together her life lessons and business strategy experience. to help us all wake up our inner astrologist and achieve big goals with no BS. In this episode, part one, we'll dive into who Sarah is, what she's been through and how her past has shaped her purpose today. In the next episode, part two,

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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When we talked last time, you mentioned how much you focus on confidence in your coaching, especially for women at work. Yet, I've noticed that confidence is often overused, almost a buzzword in every training, learning, and tech product. I was wondering, how do you define confidence differently?

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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Speaking of coaching your clients to boost their confidence, I know you've developed a signature program called the Executive Presence Blueprint. Why did you create this program? What was your thought process behind it? And could you share some of the key principles that guide your approach?

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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Lucy, let's start with the juicy part of the interview with you telling us about your journey from biotechnology to women leadership coaching.

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, let's give a warm welcome to our first guest from Ireland, Lucy Garner.

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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In all of your time helping clients, have you ever had a situation where the learning outcome didn't quite meet your expectations? And what did you learn from that experience?

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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So who are your ideal clients? Could you describe them for us? Perhaps some of our listeners might be interested in seeking your help.

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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These days, I always like to end our conversation with a multi-billion dollar question. We're entering the AI era, with innovations like AI agents and AI coaches emerging. From a coaching perspective, how do you see this AI-human partnership evolving? And in what ways do you think human coaches like yourself still hold a competitive advantage over AI advancements?

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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Let's give a big round of applause to our first guest from Ireland for her courage and strength as a mother of three, not only realizing her own ambitions, but also helping other ambitious women achieve their dreams through human connections. Thank you, Lucy.

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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So you have this hidden burning fire inside you for long. Yet, I recall you told me once that when you shared your first post on LinkedIn, that was the scariest moment in your life. So tell us more about how this transformation of you

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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Lucy is not only a mother of three and a millennial, but she also has a background in biotech and has spent many years in medical science. Yet in the last few years, She made a bold leap into entrepreneurship, now coaching emerging and established women leaders. Here on my show, I don't share and tell success stories to glorify success. I dive into real, lived experiences

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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You are a mother of three and you're an entrepreneur. You've really shown us how to balance a family and a business. Many of our listeners face similar challenges, worrying about mortgages and stable paychecks, understanding that success isn't just handed to them. With your impressive journey, if you could share some practical advice for those dreaming of starting their own business,

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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what would it be? How can they make that leap while still managing family commitments?

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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You are a coach yourself now. Ever been on the other side of that? Being coached? How has being coached helped you become better at helping your own clients?

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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complete with successes, setbacks, surprises, and all the twists and turns. Lucy's story is exactly that. And it's one I'm excited to explore beyond just the accolades she's received. Let's begin this journey together now.

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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So let me try to recap, and you tell me if I got it right. You were saying that in modern history, starting from the 20th century, a lot of the current models still trace back to Kurt Lewin's work, the classic three-step model. And since then, most of the newer models basically follow a similar structure.

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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three, maybe five stages moving from where you are now to where you want to be with some kind of transition or shift happening in between. So would it be fair to say that even with all the new frameworks, the core idea hasn't changed all that much since Kurt Lewin?

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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welcome richard welcome to chief change officer welcome to our show you have this book called book of change naturally this show is perfect for you before we start digging into your book in your learnings tell us something about yourself your journey leading up to the book

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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So stakeholder, basically managing the stakeholder perspective, the involvement there, their needs, their concerns. Is that what you mean?

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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You have developed a new model. What's the name of it?

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Richard Carson, consultant, strategist, and the guy who once walked away from a government job to join the consultants he just hired.

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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Yeah, I was just about to ask you about your model. You mentioned that it's built on Kurt Lewin's three-step change framework. I'm curious, how is your model different from his? or even from the other models out there. Give us an overview. How does your model work? What makes it similar to the classics? And what makes it stand out?

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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So back to your model mentioned is people sustained. So while it includes the classic three stages, you've also built in several other steps and actions. What are they? Can you walk us through those? How do they come together in your model?

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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That's it for today. We've heard how Richard stumbled into consulting, survived a time-tracking nightmare, and started seeing patterns in all the wrong problems. But next, we get into the real playbook. The book of change. Why 39 steps might not be too many. and the human stuff consultants usually skip. See you in part two. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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I like what you said earlier, how even though you were an urban planner, you didn't exactly plan your own career path. It wasn't all mapped out. You just evolved along the way. Something would happen, and you would think, yeah, this feels right. So you would dive deeper, and then something else would come up, maybe connected to what you already liked, and you would follow that too.

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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These days, people throw away the word perfect a lot. But your path wasn't perfect. It was real. It unfolded step by step. That got me curious. When you say something interested you, what actually sparked that interest? Was it just a gut feeling? Was it a hunger to learn something new? Or are you one of those people who's actually addicted to change?

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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Yeah, I agree with you on this. Totally.

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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In this two-part series, we talk about what happens when organizations try to change, but forget about people. Richard shares what most consultants get wrong, why empathy isn't optional, and how a terrible time tracking system inspired his now 39-step change model. It's practical, honest, and filled with stories you won't forget. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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Yeah, of course, everyone has their own idea of what getting better means. And in the office environment, it's not just about change. There's politics, power dynamics, and other things that aren't even part of the equation when we talk about improving or evolving. Some people resist change not because they don't understand it, but because change threatens the status quo.

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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And for them, that's uncomfortable.

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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Now, you've written a book called The Book of Change. You also hold a doctoral degree in organizational change. So I imagine you've studied a wide range of change models. Obviously, we don't have time to go through all of them here. You probably need a full course just to do that. But I'd love to get your quick take. From your perspective and your studies, how have these models evolved over time?

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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Has the way we think about change stayed more or less the same over the years? Or has it shifted drastically? Feel free to connect this with what you mentioned earlier. about employees being part of the solution? Or what happens when there is resistance, even in personal change? Has the approach to change itself changed?

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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One thing I want to add to that, when you talk about why there are 600 people reporting to you and why organizations have six layers of hierarchy, at the end of the day, all comes down to politics and power, and of course, money. More layers mean more justification for higher salaries at the top. That's just how economic incentives, power, and corporate structures work.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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But that's a whole other discussion, one that goes beyond technology, yet still shapes the way employment functions today. Even as the world changes, traditional employment structures are still deeply entrenched, especially for my generation. And even for yours, despite being younger, business schools and corporate environments still reinforce many of these same structures.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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Now, employment isn't disappearing, but its function, nature, and diversity are evolving. The depth and breadth of work are shifting, and that's where technology plays a huge role. So as a closing thought, Josh, you've been a strong advocate for integrating and merging technologies into the workplace. What do you see as the consequences for employers who don't adapt?

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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For those who aren't paying attention, who aren't taking steps to evolve how they manage, recruit and lead, what risks do they face? I'd love to hear your take as the final message to the world on this show.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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and certain chapters really caught my attention, especially the ones on talent, skills, credentials, and degrees. You and I, you are from Harvard, I'm from Yale, are both beneficiaries of brand name degrees. In the traditional playbook, that gave us a clear advantage in securing opportunities. but with emerging technologies, are degrees becoming less and less relevant and useful?

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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One thing I want to add, I am Gen X. That's the generation between baby boomers and millennials. Older than Gen Z, but still young and energetic. We are the first who transitioned from an analog world to a digital world. I remember learning how to use a calculator, then moving on to Lotus before Microsoft Excel even existed.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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When I was at Yale for business school, Google was just becoming a thing. I'm 51 now, turning 52 in a week. So I've experienced firsthand how technology has evolved, and so have many in my generation. And that brings me to your point about organizations, not just surviving, but thriving. We are in a time where the workforce is more intergenerational than ever.

Chief Change Officer

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Different age groups, different levels of exposure to technology. Some grew up with it. Others had to adapt along the way. The question is, how do we make the most of this? How do we create a more inclusive environment that maximizes talent, skills, and purpose? Because in the end, that's what drives business results. That's what fuels performance.

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#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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And for organizations that don't embrace this shift, If they stay rigid, resistant, or unwilling to evolve, they are setting themselves up for negative consequences. So that's my advice. Stay open, stay flexible, and recognize that the workforce is changing because those who don't will be left behind.

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Thank you. There's a web on this series. We've torn down outdated employment models, explored the rise of Web3 and AI, and tackled how businesses must evolve to keep up. The question now is, will companies adapt or get left behind? The future of work isn't coming. It's already here. If you're ready to stay ahead, now is the time to act. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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In your book, you talk about how employers still claim to degree requirements. It's a tough mindset to break. As someone who has benefited from a prestigious degree, just like I have, what's your take? Do degrees still matter? Or is it time for a new way of thinking, working, and doing?

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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Yeah, I definitely agree with you. At one point in my career, I helped a lot of students from China apply to business schools in the U.S., Most of them came from ordinary backgrounds, no special connections or privileges. And honestly, I was in the same boat. I went to Yale on a scholarship. Now, when people ask me, is an MBA still relevant? I get it.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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There's a lot of debate, just like with degrees in general. It's about connections, networks, and the brand name of these two-year MBA or law school programs. And yes, these programs accelerate learning, especially the soft skills or life skills like communication, critical thinking, and relationship building.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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But beyond that, the real value is in the people you meet and the deep connections you build over those two years. That's something you can't just replicate by networking on LinkedIn or signing up for an online course. It's a different kind of experience. That said, if your goal is purely to learn, some skills. There are so many ways to do that now, many of them more affordable and accessible.

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I've personally taken online certificates and courses to upskill, building on a traditional education background. Now, going back to your book and the discussion on degree requirements. Employers, some of them, are starting to look beyond just degrees. They are using other signals to assess skills and knowledge before making hiring decisions.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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But the degree requirement itself is still deeply ingrained, not just in the US, but in many countries. So how do we change that? How do we take real action to jailbreak the degree system? What needs to happen to shift the mindset?

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series, We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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So far, I've asked you a lot about credentials and education. That's one of my key interests. But in your book, you also introduce this massive Work 3 transformation map. A full framework for how organizations can innovate and leverage emerging technologies. Now, we won't go into all the details today. Maybe we'll save that for future episodes. But I want to ask you this. Let's say I am a CEO.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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You and Deborah present me with this phone. You come in as consultants advising my organization on transformation. Where would you recommend starting? Obviously, executing the full roadmap, strategy, concepts, implementation could take more than a year or even longer. But what's the first step, the first major pain point to tackle?

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I know it depends on the company, but if you had to pick a key entry point from your roadmap, what would be a strong starting place for any organization looking to make a meaningful shift?

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

We'll also go behind the scenes of George's book, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think. I spent over an hour diving into your book.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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I really like the circle metaphor. I think that captures the main idea of your book as well. So this is really my last question for our interview. Your book is called Unstuck, A Smart Guide to a Purposeful Career. What are some of the unsmart things people tend to do when they feel stuck

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#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Let's dig into the boat now. You structure it into three X. Act 1 Alignment Act 2 Career Redesign Act 3 Transformation First, why did you choose these three as the core structure? Why start with Alignment? Why follow that with Career Redesign and then end with Transformation? And second, for each of these acts, what are the key takeaways or core messages you would want readers to walk away with?

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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One last thing I want to say about community and support. Whether it's a coach, a group of like-minded people, or even just one person who gets it, it matters so much. Actually, you probably don't know this. None of my guests do. Each of you is part of my support system. Every time I talk to a guest from somewhere in the world, it reminds me that I'm doing the right thing with the podcast.

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#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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There are moments, many moments, when I doubt myself. Of course, we all do. But these conversations with real people who care about change, they ground me. They remind me this is real. This work matters. So yes, support systems are vital. That might mean hiring a coach, just like hiring a trainer when you go to the gym.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. What happens when your shiny successful career starts to feel like a trap? Helen Henderson has the answer. She went from board level PR executive to career coach.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Or leaning on your family or siblings or friends, assuming they're all trustworthy and available. Or simply having conversations with people who share your vision and feelings. That's how we stay afloat. That's how we keep going when things get messy or uncertain. And like you said, failure isn't part of the manual. Because if we keep moving, learning, adapting, we don't fail. We figure it out.

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#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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That to me is the key.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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No, I'm serious. Every single one of you, I mean it. Each week, I get emails from different people saying, hey, I love to be on your show. Hey, I love to be on your show. And I talk to every one of them. For me, even if it turns out they are not the right fit for the podcast, I still make a new connection. And most of the time, they've already checked out my work before reaching out.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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So we are already aligned on some level, and that's how we keep the engine moving. Failure? Not an option. Stopping, also not an option.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Before we conclude, is there anything I haven't asked that you would like to share? something on your mind or something you feel is important for our audience to listen?

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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And that ends our two-part series with Helen Henderson. From breaking down limiting beliefs to mapping out purposeful action, Helen's approach flips the usual career advice on its head. Redesigning your work life isn't about powering through. It's about pausing, rethinking, and making moves that actually match who you are now.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Hopefully, you're walking away with fresh clarity and maybe even your own hope map. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Yes, for this podcast, I always say it's about walk the walk, talk the talk leadership. I like to talk to guests who have gone through real change themselves, not just sharing advice, but lived experience. That's the kind of value I want to bring here. Now, when I skimmed through your book, one word really stood out, which is hope map. What is it? Can you walk us through the idea?

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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after realizing that the ladder she was climbing was leaning on the wrong wall. In this two-part series, Helen shares how she hit pause, got unstuck, and built a career that actually fits. We'll talk about career detour, tough choices, and why midlife isn't a crisis. is a chance to redesign. If your job looks great on paper, but feels like sandpaper, this one is for you. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Yeah, as you were explaining, it reminded me of something a career coach asked me years ago. He said, Vince, what would you do if you couldn't fail? I remember being younger and and not really knowing how to answer that question. But it stuck with me. Change is always hard. It comes with risk, uncertainty, setbacks. And like you said, once you've made the decision, don't stop. Think ahead.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Map out the possible risks. Anticipate the bumps. I study finance, so I tend to look at everything through that lens. In finance, we calculate risks, reprice them, we build models to manage them. But in life, most risks cannot be measured on a spreadsheet. So yeah, sometimes you have to take a step forward even when you are unsure. And if one path doesn't work out, it's not the end.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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You still got options. Hitting a wall doesn't mean full stop. That's one of the biggest takeaways I've gotten from our conversation today.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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I really like the swimming pool analogy because I enjoy swimming myself. I get it. Sometimes you just need to pause, catch your breath. You're tired and you need a break. But after the rest, you get your energy back. You keep moving. You keep breathing. Even when your head underwater, there's a rhythm to it.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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We've overran a bit, but I have one or two more quick questions because they tie right into this idea of transformation. You mentioned earlier something that stuck with me, which is don't get stuck in the past or the present. Could you say more about what you mean by that?

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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was the reason you wrote the book because it's one of the most effective and cost-effective ways to reach a wider audience? Did you see it as a way to scale your message and help more people beyond one-on-one coaching?

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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Helen, good morning. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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Let's start with your story. You've gone through quite a transformation yourself, from public relations to branding and now coaching with a focus on career. We'll dive into the why, the how, and everything in between.

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. What happens when your shiny successful career starts to feel like a trap? Helen Henderson has the answer. She went from board level PR executive to career coach.

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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before we dive deeper into the book itself. You mentioned earlier that you had already created courses, and that eventually led you to turn those ideas into a book. It sounded like a natural progression. But speaking from experience, I published two books myself about 10 years ago. Even with a publisher and all the content in hand, it was still a huge undertaking.

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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Honestly, one of the most challenging things I've done, not just in terms of writing, but everything else around it. How would you describe your experience writing this book? Did it flow smoothly? Or were there unexpected challenges that first-time authors should be aware of?

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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Let's dig into the boat now. You structure it into three acts. Act one, alignment. Act two, career redesign. And act three, transformation. First, why did you choose these three as the core structure? Why start with alignment? Why follow that with career redesign? And then end with transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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And second, for each of these X, what are the key takeaways or core messages you would want readers to walk away with?

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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That's it for part one. Helen's journey from global boardroom to career coach showed us that success without alignment just doesn't stick. But how do you actually get unstuck? In part two, Helen walked us through her framework for career change. From the three X of redesign to the power of a hope map, It's practical, honest, and full of aha moments. Don't miss it.

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#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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You mentioned spending 20 years in public relations. I'm curious, why did you choose that path back then, right off college? It was seen as a glamorous, traditional career. What was going on in your life at the time that led you to it?

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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I was thinking about your journey in connection with your book. The subtitle talks about building a purposeful career. And it got me wondering, Back in your PR days, were you already consciously searching for that sense of purpose? Or is it more something that came into focus later as you gained more experience and perspective over time?

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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after realizing that the ladder she was climbing was leaning on the wrong wall. In this two-part series, Helen shares how she hit pause, got unstuck, and built a career that actually fits. We'll talk about career detour, tough choices, and why midlife isn't a crisis. is a chance to redesign. If your job looks great on paper, but feels like sandpaper, this one is for you. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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You used the phrase seduced by the success markers. And I think that is so relatable because sometimes people might actually feel stuck in their own version of success. And even though it looks good on the outside, that stuckness doesn't feel good on the inside. Before we dive into your approach and how you help others, I want to go back to your own story.

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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After spending 20 years in public relations, what triggered your move? What was going through your mind at the time that led you to make that transition?

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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We might have a good degree of self-awareness, but that doesn't always mean we see everything with total clarity. Looking back on your journey, after all the moves, the risks, the uncertainty, what were some of the biggest challenges you faced along the way? And despite all that, what made it all worth it for you?

Chief Change Officer

#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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I see you as the chief change officer behind all the change leaders you work with, guiding them to maximize the success of their initiatives. But as the founder and CEO of your own firm, you're also managing change within your own organization, including hiring, scaling, and evolving as you grow. So how do you approach change management within your own firm?

Chief Change Officer

#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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Do you bring in independent consultants to guide the process? Or do you rely on your own expertise to lead and execute these changes? What does change look like from your side of the table?

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#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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I call this walk the walk and talk the talk leadership. I would like to bring you back and talk more about change. But next time it will be on video. We're launching the YouTube channel very soon. So after the holidays, please come back, Nelly. Thank you very much for your time today.

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#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm joined by Nellie Wotoff, someone I'd like to call the Chief Change Officer behind Change Leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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When it comes to change, a lot of it goes beyond technology. It's ultimately rooted in human behavior and cultural nuances. you've had the unique experience of living and working across Europe, Asia, and now the US, which brings with it an incredible range of perspectives.

Chief Change Officer

#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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Given your background and your exposure to diverse clients, I'm curious, how do you see cultural differences play out when it comes to people's reactions to change, Even the concept of change itself, whether it is a mindset shift or a full-scale transformation, can vary dramatically across regions.

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Have you noticed any significant differences or similarities in how these cultures approach and perceive change? And how do you adapt your solutions to help clients tackle those cultural nuances more effectively?

Chief Change Officer

#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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Yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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When we first met, You told me some intriguing insights from your experiences, specifically why certain change initiatives fail while others succeed. You pointed out that there are common pitfalls that lead to failure and that understanding can uncover valuable opportunities to set the stage for success. Could you share with us some of those common reasons for failure?

Chief Change Officer

#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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Originally from Europe, she spent years in Asia, especially in Singapore, working across cultures. Now based in U.S., Nellie is the founder and CEO of Tiger Hall, a tech-driven platform helping organizations navigate change more effectively. This is part one of a two-part series. In these episodes, we'll dive into navigating cultural differences across three regions,

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Maybe you've seen recurring patterns, or perhaps you can recall specific examples without naming names of how these failures played out. And on the flip side, what approaches have you found to be especially effective in laying the groundwork for a successful change initiative?

Chief Change Officer

#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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Yeah, like you said, human nature is universal. Fear, ego, emotions, and office politics exist everywhere, regardless of culture, gender, or age. My friend's story about working in a big bank in Asia captures a common sentiment that is frustration about change management tools or processes that feel imposed rather than embraced.

Chief Change Officer

#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Let's get started. What triggered you to start this company in the very first place?

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#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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She mentioned how the software forced employees to fit into its framework rather than adapting to their needs. And the feedback process, she described it as a formality where no one feels safe or motivated to speak the truth, just filling in responses for the sake of it. That sense of disengagement is palpable.

Chief Change Officer

#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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I'm curious, from your perspective, have you encountered similar resistance in your work? How do you ensure that tools or processes don't just check the box for change but actually engage and empower the people they are meant to serve?

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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And one of the tools to do that is money. Now that you've touched on retirement, there's another trend, the rise of financial influencers. These days, anyone can learn about finance and investments online anytime, anywhere. On one hand, these influencers help democratize financial information and make advice more accessible. But on the other hand, there are concerns.

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#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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questions about their qualifications, the accuracy of their information, conflicts of interest, and the fact that some may lack formal financial education or ethical standards. Some may promote investments for personal gain without proper disclosure. With so much information out there, What's your take on this rising force of influencers?

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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And how would you advise listeners who are navigating through all this to make smarter decisions?

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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So if you have kids, care about your financial future, are looking after elderly family members, or are simply concerned about financial and family planning in general, join us and get inspired by Colin's journey in building wealth from scratch. This is part two of our two-part series on Colin and his golden rules of people-focused finance. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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I think the issue with financial influences is just one part of a larger problem. Ever since the internet became a part of our lives, we've had access to a flood of information. And now, with social media and various platforms, we all have to deal with misinformation and fake news. These influencers are just one group of influencers sharing information, but often it's not verifiable.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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This brings us to a major topic that has been discussed a lot lately in the media, which is developing critical thinking and independent thinking. These are skills we're supposed to learn in school and on the job. But with the rise of social media and some negative effects of technology, it seems like people are losing the art of thinking critically and independently.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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This brings me to our last and most important question. Let's go back to your roots as a family man. You are a father of three young kids, the next generation. With your knowledge of investment and diversification, you're already building a financial safety net for them, buying gold for them, securing the future. But beyond the wealth you're building,

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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there's the question of how they will make use of it as they grow up. That leads us to financial education and literacy, which I believe is lacking in today's society, especially for younger people. So as a professional investor who helps clients day in and day out, also as a father of three, How are you preparing your children for their financial future?

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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How do you nurture the ability to become critical thinkers, independent decision makers, and financial literate individuals so they can make informed decisions when the time comes?

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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So the desire for control often comes from a lack of trust and confidence in the system.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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That's actually one of the biggest lessons my mother shared with me back in high school. She never had the chance to go to college. She grew up poor and didn't get that opportunity. But she loves learning, and she makes sure I could learn as much as I wanted. She always tells me, focus on your learning because that's something no one can ever steal from you.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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When you think about it, stocks and bonds can lose value overnight. But then there's the argument that a degree doesn't hold the same importance anymore. That's a whole other conversation we could dive into in a different episode. But one thing is for sure, learning itself never goes out of style. Learning always has long-term value, no matter what. It's an investment that never depreciates.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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Yes, inflation, the common enemy we all face. But what other concerns should people be thinking about?

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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I used to work in Los Angeles for TCW Asset Management, where I managed billion-dollar funds for institutions alongside the bond king, Jeffrey Gundlach, focusing on bond and credit portfolios. Today, I'm meeting someone else from LA, but with a different angle on investment. Precious metals like gold and silver.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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You've mentioned the word retirement a few times now. Well, this podcast isn't specifically about retirement. A lot of what we discuss, like career change and navigating through this era of change and uncertainty, ties into that. Even the whole notion of retirement is evolving, with AI set to reshape many aspects of work and career development.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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the idea of what retirement looks like is shifting too. Now, for those who still have a stable job and income, would you say in preparing for whatever that version of retirement might be, Diversifying or investing in gold and precious metals could serve as a haste against income uncertainty. Have you worked with clients in this situation before? And what advice do you give them?

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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Our guest, Colin Plume, is here to talk about something often overlooked and undervalued. But don't worry, this isn't a sales pitch on buying gold or silver. Colin and I will dive into more personal topics, family, parenting, retirement, and the sense of control over personal finance, as well as financial education for future generations.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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That brings up another opportunity for a longer-term strategy, especially for people with continued income. It's definitely healthier, both physically and mentally, to stay sharp, to stay engaged, even part-time. Studies show that after a certain age, while exercise is crucial for physical health, keeping your brain active is just as important for mental and physical well-being.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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Earning extra income, even part-time, helps with that. And of course, some of that extra income could go towards investments, like you mentioned. But it's also about maintaining control. Control over your life, your mobility, and what you want to achieve before the final days. I think we all, at the end of the day, want to own our lives and have control over them.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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So if you have kids, care about your financial future, are looking after elderly family members, or are simply concerned about financial and family planning in general, join us and get inspired by Colin's journey in building wealth from scratch. This is part one of our two-part series on Colin and his golden rules of people-focused finance. Let's get started. Welcome to our show, Colin.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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So let's say I come to you with a chunk of money, and I'm considering buying gold or silver. Can you walk me through the process? You've mentioned things like acquisition, so I suppose after that comes storage. because obviously, I can't just keep it in my basement. Then, is there some kind of monitoring? Like, do you send reports on prices every month or so?

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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And at some point, I'll probably be concerned about liquidity. How easy, how cost-effective It is to sell when I'm ready to cash out.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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I can definitely see the appeal of control. If someone owns a gold bar and keeps it at home, they obviously have to figure out security. Not just a regular safe, but maybe something really sophisticated. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if some people still do what they did back in the day.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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Like in China, for example, keeping large amounts of cash, gold bars, and other valuables at home, even in the bedroom. It's that tangible feeling of having something you can physically hold on to. It's more tangible than even owning a house because a house, while you can see it, is tied to a bunch of paperwork, just like stocks, bonds, and funds.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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Good morning.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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They are all backed by legal papers and financial systems. So I get why some people prefer to have something they can physically control right at their fingertips.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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Today, we are diving into a topic that's really important, not just in business, but also in every family, finance. And it's also right at the core of what you do. But before we get into that, let's start with you. Could you share a bit about your background, your career journey? and the story behind how you got to where you are today.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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So the desire for control often comes from a lack of trust and confidence in the system.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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Just now, Colin shared how he got into the gold business. and why investing in precious metals is timely, especially in this era of change and uncertainty. In part two, which will be released tomorrow, we'll dive deeper into the risks and opportunities in the precious metal market. Colin will also share his insights on financial influences

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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parenting, retirement, family wealth building, and financial education. Don't miss it. Come back and join us again tomorrow. See you. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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I used to work in Los Angeles for TCW Asset Management, where I managed billion-dollar funds for institutions alongside the bond king, Jeffrey Gundlach, focusing on bond and credit portfolios. Today, I'm meeting someone else from LA, but with a different angle on investment. Precious metals like gold and silver.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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Noble Gold, just the name, sounds like it's all about investing in gold and precious metals. I'll let you do the pitch. Why is now the right time? What is the opportunity in gold investing? But before we get into that, I want to ask you about your leadership style. while you're running an investment firm focused on financial products.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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I've heard that you're really a people-first leader, whether it's your clients, customers, or employees. Would you say that's an accurate way to describe your approach?

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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Our guest, Colin Plume, is here to talk about something often overlooked and undervalued. But don't worry, this isn't a sales pitch on buying gold or silver. Colin and I will dive into more personal topics, family, parenting, retirement, and the sense of control over personal finance, as well as financial education for future generations.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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When we first met, I shared a bit about my own background in finance, which has been more on the traditional side By that, I mean I've worked with mainstream investment products like bonds and credit, and my focus has mostly been on big institutions. I haven't had much experience dealing directly with individual investors or in the precious metals space. So I'm curious, why precious metals?

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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I think this question has two parts. First, why did you choose to set up this firm focused on precious metals instead of other investment products? And second, when you are talking to your customers, why do you recommend precious metals? Why gold? Why silver? As viable investment options for them?

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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I can see why the legal mindset resonates with you and me. It's such a perfect metaphor for building a life, a career, even a podcast that's uniquely mine. You're not just piecing together blocks. You're creating something with purpose, using elements that feel authentic to you.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Just like how each brick contributes to a structure, every experience, every skill, every choice you make adds to your bigger picture. And just like a true master builder, you're following your own playbook, assembling a vision that's completely your own. Nina, I love how you've tied together all these elements, the successful timeline, the legal mindset, and the reverse resume.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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For anyone listening, whether you're facing a career transition, feeling stuck, and simply preparing for change, These tools can really help you navigate that journey. Thank you so much, Lena. Thank you for sharing your story and your wisdom.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. These days, we talk a lot about resilience. We can discuss the psychology of it all day long. But who actually walks the walk and talks the talk when it comes to resilience?

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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And instead of staying down, she jumped into technology, starting from scratch, and reinvented herself yet again. Yesterday, in part one of our conversation, we explored Nina's journey, her training, her tryouts, and her setbacks. Then today in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success. We are going beyond that. So let's begin this incredible journey with Nina. Absolutely. And I think that's a great point. For anyone listening, the takeaway here is to think outside the box when it comes to your skills and experience.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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We often limit ourselves to what we have always done or the industry we know, but those same skills can often apply in ways we wouldn't initially expect. In my own experience, A guest on the show, an executive recruiter, once told me I would meet a great executive recruiter myself. At first, I was surprised. Recruiting wasn't something I've ever considered.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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But she pointed out that my ability to support talent, connect with people, and bring the right voices onto the show demonstrated qualities that could be valuable in her industry. So, just like your own story, it's about being creative and open-minded when exploring new directions. Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to see what we are really capable of.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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So you've moved into technology, built a new version of yourself, and now you're out there as a solo entrepreneur, as an author, as a speaker. It's amazing to see how your career has evolved. As we're talking about transitions and career paths, resumes often come up. Traditionally, resume is seen as an advertisement, a highlight reel of achievements.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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But you introduced me to the concept of a reverse resume. Could you walk us through what that is and how it might help those who are considering a change or currently navigating a transition? I think it could be a powerful tool to help open up minds and see new possibilities.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Professional athletes. Today, I'm sitting down with Nina Sossaman Pope, a former professional gymnast, who started her journey at about four years old and went on to join the U.S. gymnastic team. In her own words, gymnastics is a perfect example of resilience. You literally fall down and get back up all day every day as you learn new skills.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Yes, this isn't just a single page. It's more like a notebook, something dynamic that we keep updating. It can serve us as a reminder, especially in those moments when we are feeling down, discouraged, or unsure. As entrepreneurs, there's always something happening, some challenge or setback. But when you can look back at your progress, it's a powerful reminder that you've overcome so much.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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It's just another bump in the road, not a showstopper. Just keep moving forward. Don't let it derail you.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Exactly. It's like you said, a mix of all your past achievements and challenges, marking different points in time, But the other side is blank, representing the future, open for you to shape. It's all about how you want to connect those dots and create your path forward.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Is that the successful timeline you mentioned to me before?

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Yes, exactly. That's the successful timeline. is a way to look at your life journey as a series of pivotal moments.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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That mindset became part of Nina's DNA, and it carried her through some incredible twists and turns. From the heartbreak of not making the Olympic team to leaving the sport for good after an injury, she faced one identity crisis after another. But she didn't stop there. Nina built a successful journalism career that spent 17 years only to be let go despite being a beloved news anchor.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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You mentioned that you and Deborah, the co-founder of WorkStreet Institute, worked on this book together with you. I know there's quite a story behind how this book came to be. Can you share that with us here?

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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That's the web for today. We've broken down why traditional employment is crumbling and why companies need to wake up before they lose their best talent. But how do we actually rebuild work for the future? In the next episode, George takes us behind the scenes of his book, Employment Is Dead. from a cold call to a major publishing deal. Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Let's dive right in. First of all, who you really are, what you have done in the past. Then we'll deep dive into different elements of your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Yeah, I couldn't agree more about the short-term mindset. I've studied economics, finance, and accounting, and at the end of the day, even with the best intentions, a competent, capable, and purpose-driven CEO, a chief HR officer, or any senior leader still has to balance doing good with making money. They look at the numbers, the bottom line, and all the financial metrics.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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They ask, how was our accounting income this quarter? What's our cash position? And eventually, they make decisions, sometimes tough ones like cutting jobs. To them, it's ultimately just a number. It feels cold, but that's the reality of how these decisions are made. And yet, in financial reports, you always see the same message. People are our greatest asset.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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But let's be real, on the financial statements, people are not listed as assets. They are categorized as an expense item on the income statement, not something quantified on the balance sheet that drives revenue and income. So while the message says people first, the decision-making still comes down to numbers. In the end, employees are just HR records sitting in the cloud.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Now, I'm not saying this to discredit well-intentioned HR leaders or CEOs. It's just the reality of how businesses operate. Before we get into Wall Street Institute and the solutions you're building for these big challenges, I want to take a step back and talk about your own career journey. You've observed these issues firsthand. And what about your personal experience?

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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When you were fresh off college, studying psychology, working under different leaders and managers, what did that look like for you? Then you went to Harvard for your MBA and learned to be more innovative in your approach. Let's start with your early career. How did your experiences shape the way you see these challenges today and influence the solutions you're working on?

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series, We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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You started with psychology, then went to business school, and now you are in Web3. That's quite the journey. I'm curious about that transition, not just in the sense of switching jobs, but more about what shifted in your mindset. A lot of people see psychology as a soft skill field and tech as a hard skill domain. So what was it for you? Was there something about Web3 that really fascinated you?

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Something that made you think, this is the technology that can truly change the world for good? What was the trigger that pushed you into this uncharted territory coming from a psychology background?

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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We'll also go behind the scenes of George's book, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think. Good morning, Josh. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. It's very early morning for you there.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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So, would it be fair to say that the metaverse, Web3, and all these emerging technologies are essentially breaches, tools that help us redefine the employee experience? Not just in one way, but in ways that actually make sense for our lives, our productivity, our outcome, and our well-being? Would you put it that way?

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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Second, I selected those who knew me well enough, spending various parts of my life, some friendships going back 30 years, others from the last decade. I intentionally created a diverse pool to get a wide range of viewpoints. Additionally, these friends saw me in different roles and at different times, so they each had unique perspectives on my evolution.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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I aimed for a meaningful balance, enough for people to get diverse insights, but not so many that the feedback would become irrelevant. I felt 50 was just right. More wouldn't have added value if the people were not as closely connected with me.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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Superpower? First of all, most of them mentioned that I am a deep thinker. Words like logical, analytical, and persistent came up frequently. Once I decide to pursue something, They see me as unwavering in following in through. Interestingly, some offered perspectives I had not considered myself.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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For example, Waverly Dorch, my former professor from Chicago Booth, who is also my guest on the show in Season 2 if anyone is interested, She commented on my ability to do math and tell stories, which, in her words, is a rare combination. I took this as a positive compliment given her unique background. She is a Ph.D. in theater history.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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with an undergrad degree in computer science, combining both artistic and quantitative strengths in her teaching of entrepreneurship and business. Her lens on my skills was influenced by her own experience as someone who bridges the gap between art and science. One takeaway here is that the people you choose to ask for feedback come with their own perspectives.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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The insights into your strengths are inevitably influenced and limited by their backgrounds. That's why selecting a diverse group thoughtfully chosen for their varied experiences is key to gaining a well-rounded understanding of your superpowers.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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Exactly. And that's the key point I want to emphasize. This is precisely why AI cannot replace the human touch. AI has incredible data capacity and can assist in generating a vast amount of content, but it lacks the nuanced understanding that comes from genuine human connection.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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Hallucination issues aside, even when it comes to reading emotions, we still don't have technology that truly reflects the depth of understanding needed. Some advancements are being made in emotion detection, But it's far from capturing the authentic experience of sitting across from someone, reading their body language, responding naturally, and engaging in a meaningful, unscripted conversation.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages. In the last two days, part one, part two, We've explored his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate stories and understand the connection between story and narrative.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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That's where the human element remains irreplaceable.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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Chris, I really want to thank you for your time today. You've been incredibly generous, actually giving me a full 90 minutes of your time.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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We've also looked at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shared some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard or felt. He has also opened up about his own mental health challenges. Today, part three, he'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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I'll also be sharing my own experience with another exercise, highlighting both its challenges and insights. So let's dive into the final chapter of Chris' story. So for those listening, who might not have direct access to professional guidance, what can they do to craft and shape their own stories?

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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Whether they are in career transition, facing personal challenges, or just feeling stuck, what would you suggest as essential steps for creating a story that truly resonates with who they are?

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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First, let me admit, the movie theater exercise is something I'll definitely want to try. Please do send me the worksheet. I can imagine that if I were in that theater alone, I would likely cry even though I'm not typically one to shed tears, not even happy ones. But picturing myself in that situation, not so much at retirement, but maybe at the end of my life, it would move me deeply.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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As for the 360-degree feedback, I actually did a version of this a few years ago, not with just three to five people. but with about 50 people across different periods of my life. Some friends from 30 years ago, others from 20 or 10 years back, covering a range of relationships and contexts. I asked each of them to answer, what do you see as my superpower?

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#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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and to share words that came to mind when they thought of me. Each one responded with their unique insights. Elaborating on their thoughts, I took notes on everything, gathered the data points, and even created a spreadsheet to track common themes. My Chicago training pushed me to analyze these patterns, and it was fascinating to see the traits that surfaced across the board.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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That exercise gave me meaningful clarity and reinforced aspects of myself I felt aligned with. It was incredibly helpful.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story. My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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Other lesson I learned goes back to my days. as an MBA admissions interviewer. You mentioned input and output, and it got me thinking about how MBA and law programs and similar institutions often shape future alumni and leaders. It's not only about the narrative they tell, it's about how they select candidates.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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They choose specific types of people with qualities that maximize the likelihood of success. That's why these schools can point to impressive alumni is by design. Why does this relate to the feedback exercise I did with my 50 friends? Because I was equally thoughtful about who I chose. First, I knew they would be willing to give me a solid 30 minutes of their time or even more.

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today at our studio, we welcome James Helofsky from Riverside in Southern California.

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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So, I have great respect for franchising as a business model that can positively transform lives. Let's discover how James has used franchising for the greater good for both athletes and everyday people. Good morning, James. How are you doing today?

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#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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When you look back at these examples where you acted as the advisor and matchmaker, helping them figure out the plans and goals, What are the three qualities that stand out in these successful individuals? These qualities could be skill, mindsets, psychological traits, or something related to the sports they play.

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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Can you name some key qualities that are common and contribute to success in franchising for these athletes?

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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James joins us in a very timely moment. As we speak, this is the second week of the Olympic Games. Today, we are talking about sports, especially the lives of athletes. Before we dive into that, I'll let James introduce himself, share his background, his history, and his career path.

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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Then we'll jump right into our discussion on athletes, on business, on franchises, and how all these things link together.

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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So when exactly did you start this franchise consulting business?

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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So around the time COVID started, what was the situation for you in terms of building your business? It sounds like you had gained trust from some athlete and entered their circle, building confidence. But then we faced this lifetime crisis, so much uncertainty. As an entrepreneur, how did you navigate the landscape? And eventually, how did you get through it and return to normal?

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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James runs a unique franchise consulting business, primarily serving retired athletes from the NBA and NFL who are starting new chapters in their lives as franchisees. He also helps regular people with their franchise businesses. James believes that using his expertise in franchising to change lives and livelihoods of families and future generations is a dream come true endeavor.

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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Yeah, we'll definitely touch upon the idea of regular people getting involved in the franchise business, especially with all the changes in the job market. But before we get into that, let's go back to the sports world and the athletes.

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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I remember you've mentioned before, both in our conversations and on social media, that there are many parallels between the sports business and franchising in terms of generating revenue streams. Could you explain how that works? How do sports franchises compare to regular franchising?

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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So it sounds like you are saying that the way franchising is set up and run is similar to the environment in which athletes are trained, following rules, knowing the rules, and so on. But what about the cost and revenue structure and all those other business aspects?

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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When you invest in or get involved in a business, you always consider the business model, revenue, costs, hiring, marketing, et cetera. Do you see similarities or parallels in the business world that apply to the sports world? In other words, does the environment athletes are trained in make it easier for them to transition into the business world?

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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I haven't been a franchisee or franchisor myself, But I do have experience with the franchise business. Many years ago, when my parents immigrated to Canada with zero local experience and connections, they ventured into franchising to make a living. Despite the hardships, using franchising as a means to fulfill the dream of becoming immersed and settled in the community was life-changing.

Chief Change Officer

#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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Can you share some successful examples of clients you've worked with? You can name names if it's okay, or just tell us about the factors and elements that help these athletes transition well into their businesses. How did the process unfold and what was the eventual outcome?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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People generally resist change unless it is stressed upon them unexpectedly and without clear reasoning, logic, or alternatives, as many experienced during COVID. However, if the conditions for change are managed well, involving and consulting those affected throughout the process people can and will embrace change. Don't you agree, Steve?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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So speaking of innovation and change and how it's sometimes resisted or embraced. You and I previously discussed an interesting case involving a bank in the Philippines. You mentioned that a particular segment of the staff there, the more mature, often overlooked group, actually contributed significantly to innovation efforts after you engaged with them.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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I wanted to bring this up because there's a common belief in the tech world that older employees might not be as tech savvy as their younger counterparts, which can lead to ageism in the workplace. From your experience, can you share how you've seen mature employees contribute to innovation And what are your thoughts on overcoming this legacy mindset that sometimes holds back valuable talent?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'll be chatting with Steve Monaghan.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Just how inspiring is he? Stay tuned for the next 30 minutes and you'll find out. Good morning, Steve.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Why do you think the younger people don't know how to ask relevant or right questions as opposed to the older members of the team?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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They really bring a hands-on perspective to the table. These employees have been in the trenches, experiencing the pain points of the workflows long before technology was introduced. They've lived through the problems, which means they are uniquely positioned to see where technology can solve issues or where processes might actually benefit from a more human touch.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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This blend of human insight and technology leads to a more seamless integration. What I would call a true artificial intelligence where it's not just tech, but a smart combination of machine and human working together.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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AI is always a big topic. But let's switch gears to talk about your next big thing. You've mentioned to me that you're working on something really, really interesting and meaningful. Groundbreaking, if I can use this word. Tell us more.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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That sounds exciting. I can't wait to see the progress. It's bound to have a huge and tremendous economic and social impact. When you're ready, let me know and I'll send in my resume, okay? Now, you mentioned you are deeply involved in both executing and investing in this project. This brings me to another critical issue many entrepreneurs face, mental wellness.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Could you share your observations or experiences with your investees on how they manage their mental wellness How do you support them through the ups and downs?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Some investors might be less understanding when it comes to situations like this, but you seem more open and empathetic. Perhaps that's because of your diverse experiences in different roles and capacities.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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There's a common notion among entrepreneurs that discussing mental health issues openly with investors, co-founders, or even team members might shake their confidence in your leadership or influence their investment decisions. From your diverse perspective as an entrepreneur, as an investor, as an innovator in big corporations, how do you handle this?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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How do you address the stigma or reservations that some might have about mental health in a high-pressure environment of startups?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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There's a really important point to emphasize. Mental health issues are not exclusive to entrepreneurs. they affect anyone, from entrepreneurs to employees to CEOs. I've personally faced mental health challenges three times myself, with two of those occurring during my time in corporate roles. It's something many of us might encounter regardless of our positions.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Absolutely. Before we wrap up this conversation on mental health, in particular concerning entrepreneurs, what advice would you give to them or even to those who want to support other entrepreneurs with their mental wellness? What are some possible solutions you see? Perhaps some solutions might be tech-driven. What others could be more about creating supportive communities or programs?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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How can we help entrepreneurs not just move forward, but also regain their confidence to become more resilient, allowing them to fully leverage the brilliance, confidence, resilience, and brilliance, a perfect formula for entrepreneurs.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Steve, earlier in our conversation, you highlighted the critical role of learning in your career transitions and how it's been a sustainable advantage for you. Reflecting on your passion for learning through reading, particularly on complex topics such as AI, could you share how you believe this habit of deep, focused reading has impacted your mental wellness?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Additionally, do you think there are specific ways that engaging with such intellectually stimulating materials can help others manage their mental health?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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That's a wrap. Thank you so much, Steve. I'll surely get you back here very soon, as long as you have time.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Let's take a moment to recap the key insights from our conversation with Steve. Here are eight crucial takeaways. Number one, learning is the key to unlocking transformation, not just for organizations, also for personal career development. Number two, embracing learning means embracing failure. The real value lies in what we learn from those failures. Number three,

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Having an outsider's perspective can be incredibly valuable, offering a fresh, untainted view and adding a new dimension to problem-solving. Number four, change is always met with resistance. The trick to overcoming this opposition is by transforming a no-no situation into a know knowledge, helping people understand the why and how of change. Number five, empower people to own the change process.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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This approach helps eliminate their fear and can drive change more effectively and extensively. Number six, mature and experienced employees bring significant advantages in the era of AI. Their firsthand experience with workflow pain points before technology intervention places them in a unique position to integrate technology seamlessly and enhance processes with a human touch.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Number seven, pay attention to mental wellness, whether it's for employees or entrepreneurs. Everyone can be affected by mental health challenges in one way or another. Number eight, maintain a balanced reading portfolio. It's essential for staying informed, curious, and effective in continuous learning. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Wow, it's fascinating to hear how your career journey has evolved, particularly how you've navigated from aviation to technology, software, and hardware, then deeper into various sectors of finance and entrepreneurship across different regions and countries. What's the core motivation that keeps you moving forward, especially in taking on vicious projects?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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I first met Steve back around 2015 or 2016 in Hong Kong when he was the regional director at AIA, one of the leading insurance groups in the Asia Pacific. He was running a unique health technology accelerator at the time. Later, I invited him to be a venture coach and judge for the University of Chicago's first-ever Global New Venture Challenge, hosted right here in Hong Kong.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Your personal website kicks off with a bold statement, learning the foundation for sustainable competitive advantage. He also openly mentioned, I've succeeded and I've failed always learning. Could you share with us some candid insights about times when things didn't go as planned?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Specifically, could you tell us about what you've learned from these setbacks and failures in your career and innovation projects?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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You've really lived and worked all over the globe. Singapore, India, Saudi Arabia, Hong Kong, Silicon Valley, and now Japan. Everywhere you've been, you've been the outsider. How do you think this foreigner identity has shaped your approach as a leader driving change?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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It's really insightful to hear how you've managed to change and overcome resistance in your roles. Could you elaborate on how you've tackled the challenge of people's natural fear of change in your work? In particular, when introducing new technologies or business models, how have you transformed a simple no? into know, knowledge, and acceptance. And what role did learning play in this process?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Since then, he's moved to Tokyo. We've called up a few times, both in Japan and back in Hong Kong. To me, Steve embodies authenticity. He is consistently successful and resilient in the face of setbacks. Largely because, I believe, he is always true to himself. He walks the walk and talks the talk. A real leader and an incredibly inspiring speaker. How could I not invite him to the podcast then?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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The motto of a podcast is make your laws of change. Steve has shared his own laws of change on his website, which I'll link in the show notes to those interested. He outlines three core principles. First, that change is always met with opposition. Second, that implementing change requires a forceful effort And third, that the larger the organization, the greater the force needed to enact change.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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These principles aren't just relevant to organizational shifts. They apply to personal transformations too, such as career changes, something many of us are facing today. Take the first principle, change is always opposed If you are in a stable job with a decent income, why risk what you have for the uncertainty of change? The second principle states that change requires force.

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Whether it's due to layoffs or needing to relocate, the push and pull factors must be compelling enough to drive the change. Finally, similar to large organizations needing greater force to change, the higher you are in your career, the more you have a stake, and the stronger the impetus needed to push you through a transition.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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You've managed complex operations involving stakeholders with different interests, agendas, and goals that sometimes, and especially in the unusual and intense time period, conflict with collective objectives. Now, at Yale, you're engaging with a wide range of groups. What is your approach to managing these multi-stakeholder relationships?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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As you're well aware, this is crucial not only to the success of your role, but also to the impact you aim to achieve.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I'll save the specifics for you to discover in this episode. Among many roles, George was pivotal in managing Connecticut's COVID-19 health response. For those interested in his contribution during that critical period, check out the YouTube link in the show notes where he hosted a press conference. Without further ado, let's dive in.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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A cliche question at this point would be, oh, Josh, what's your typical day at Yale? Well, I believe there isn't any typical day. So let me flip the question. Tell us about what are some of the things that you try to help with the Yale communities day in and day out?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we're talking with Josh Chabot, the managing director of Yale Ventures. You've likely heard of Yale University, but what about Yale Ventures?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Given your role in building and developing the innovation ecosystem at Yale, you interact with faculty, scholars. I presume a lot of MBA students from the Yale School of Management would come to you for guidance.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Considering the challenges, career challenges in particular, that MBA students face today, whether they are exploring corporate roles or interested in entrepreneurship, and with the tough funding market for new founders, what career advice would you offer them?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Behavior-related advice? What books would you recommend to those who are interested in entrepreneurship or already in entrepreneurship?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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This is the last question of the day, and I want you to give me your honest answer. You've had a very successful corporate career. Then you joined a startup as a professional CEO, eventually took them into acquisition. Then you joined the public administration to help them deal with once-in-a-lifetime crisis in human history.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Now, you are working at one of the most famous universities in the world to build and drive an innovation ecosystem. So what else is in your career life that you may want to do in your future? What may be the missing piece? Would it be perhaps at some point you will become a founder to found company, to build it, to scale it on your own?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Great, great news for everyone in the Yale Innovation Community. I really wish we had someone like you around when we were as a school. Josh, thank you so much for your time. Please come back and tell us more about the founder stories and the innovations activities happening at Yale, Yale Haven in Connecticut, also upcoming Yale Innovation Summit.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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For those of you who are unfamiliar with this event, this is an annual event usually happening in May. And this year will be May 29th and 30th with Chelsea Clinton as the keynote speaker. Just to clarify, this is not a paid ad. My podcast doesn't do paid promotions at this stage. It's definitely an event worth checking out, especially if you are close to the Yale campus.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I hope to make it there myself next year. And Josh, come back to the podcast whenever you have time. You're always welcome here.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I spoke with our classmate, Irina, in an earlier episode. She is founded and is now leading a new venture in the energy transition sector. Like you, she has made several significant career transitions since MBA. I find each of them fascinating. When I asked her about the common themes in her career moves, she said two things, self-starter and curiosity.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Before we dive deeper into each phase of your career, what have been your main drivers for exploring and trying new things over the past 20 years?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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You've got a strong background in astrology from your education at Yale, then as astrology consultant at IBM, diving deep into business strategies with solid logic. But when it comes to something more personal, such as career decisions, career moves, It seems like even for analytical minds like ours, there's a need to balance logic with psychology.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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If I have to use an economic term, it is about finding equilibrium between the two. Have you encountered any mental hurdles while trying to decide on a Korean booth? Or in figuring out if a decision is right or worthwhile? If you have, how do you navigate the psychological ups and downs in your career decisions?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I'd like to explore more about your move from IBM to a startup. Early in your career, after completing your MBA at Yale, you started as a consultant at IBM. That was amazing. Remember that was 2002 after 911. A lot of us were challenged to get a full-time job upon graduation. Yet you got a full-time job offer from IBM. After about a decade with IBM, you move to a venture.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Where, if I remember correctly, you were the 16th employee. What was going through your mind when you made the switch from a well-established firm to a startup that you needed to help grow? What was your gut feeling about the transition?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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It's a key part of the Yale's innovation ecosystem, collaborating with faculty, students, entrepreneurs, and local governments to drive all sorts of innovation activities. Yale Ventures, for example, helps scientists and scholars turn their inventions into real products, the commercialization process, so to speak.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I bet you must have experienced a lot of cultural shock in this transition.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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You joined the public sector during a very interesting time from 2019 to 2022. You were responsible for Connecticut's COVID health response efforts. Can you share with us some of your insights from your experience during this period of time?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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A system in raising money, build teams, and support students in developing the innovation ideas. And a little personal note, George and I are both MBA alum from the Yale School of Management. We both graduated in year 2002. He chose a path in consulting. I went into finance. George's career has been nothing short of remarkable, filled with impact and challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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The COVID-19 pandemic was truly a once in a lifetime event that went beyond anything we've learned from traditional business or management textbooks. Reflecting on that unusual and intense period, what were your main challenges?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Using your consultant mindset and entrepreneurial experience, how did you address or mitigate these challenges as you learned and adapted to find better and more effective solutions for all?

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Cecil Coutu Ferreira from Portugal, a beautiful, beautiful country I visited a few years ago to join the Web Summit in Lisbon as a guest and a speaker.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Human capital and financial capital, of course, but both.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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You have to have both elements in order for the economy to grow, to develop. It actually is the golden rule. It actually is a timeless golden rule.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Last question of the day. As a former media executive, what advice would you give to people who are deeply immersed in social media?

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Thank you so much for your wise words and of course your time. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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I think we're looking at something much, much bigger than just a personal transformation. Your three-minute career story is not only your own evolution, but also a pivotal shift in the entire media and entertainment industry. From the analog world to the digital and social media age,

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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One thing I surely appreciate, and I think you'll echo this, is that working in big corporations, no matter the industry, can be an incredible training ground. The opportunities are massive with a powerful brand, lending prestige to your resume. But at the end of the day, much of what you work on isn't really your own intellectual property.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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With that in mind, and considering you moved on back then, I'm curious about your thought process behind this decision. The reason I'm asking is that many of us, as we develop our career paths, face moments that are either expected or completely out of the blue. Each decision, each transition, I believe, is a delicate balance between logic and psychology.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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The people are warm. The food is great. The sea and the sky are so blue. I surely want to go back. This episode is like a real-life version of the popular HBO TV series, Secession. I'm sure many of you watched the show. It's not just about a secession war for the top job of CEO within a super wealthy and powerful family, but also about the war in old media versus new media and tech.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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You mentioned earlier that while you are trained in science with a very logical mind, you're also very into art, into creative work, into philosophy. So back then, how did you navigate this balance when making career decisions?

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Your experience reminds me of the movie, Jerry Maguire. Have you seen it yourself? Your work was essentially a people-first industry. Yet, oftentimes, these very people are treated more like products. And when you truly care about individuals as real humans with lives, worries, emotions, and inevitable endpoints, it changes everything.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Once you delve into the business aspects, as well as the personal connections with these individuals you interact with daily, it creates a profound internal conflict. I think of it as a struggle between two mindsets, or the usual saying, drama is the reality, reality is the drama.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Artists of change. Yes. Change is an art more than a science. You work in a media industry. It's always about the glamour. You travel to all those places, parties, stores.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Yeah, the wall is right there. It's just right there.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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You've told me before that you're all in for building a legacy. After experiencing the highs and lows of the media and entertainment industry, you've gone on to build ventures and venture ecosystem in Brazil and back home in Portugal. A key highlight, I believe, has been your involvement with the Web Summit in Lisbon. While Patty Cosgrave might be the face and voice of the summit,

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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a succession from old money to new money. Since the beginning of the century, Cecil has been involved in this transformation from analog to digital media, from a DJ and TV presenter to an MTV Networks executive, working with Madonna and all the music stars. He's seen the bright and the dark sides of 21st century media and entertainment. Without further ado, let's get into the war.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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You've played a crucial role at a national level, influencing the government to take a leap of faith in integrating tourism with technology. Share with us your involvement in bringing this major event to the forefront. And looking at the bigger picture, what kind of legacy are you aiming to build that makes you proud

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Let's dive deep into Michael's journey and learn how to fight burnout for good. Welcome, Michael. Thank you for coming to my podcast.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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You have dealt with a lot of individuals, leaders, and their companies. So share with us two examples. One is a success story where your intervention led to positive changes in the individual's life and career or might be in the firm's culture. Another story would be a situation where things did not go as well as planned with your intervention. What were the key lessons you learned from them?

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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How do these not-so-good experiences have helped you shape your approach to dealing with similar situations in the future?

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Thank you so much. My show is called Chief Change Officer because this podcast is my 18th career transition in the past 36 years. I always believe that change opens up opportunities, drives personal growth, and innovates society for good. So far, I've invited quite a number of C-level leaders to my podcast, but you are the first ever Chief Burnout Officer. Can you explain to me why this title?

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Office politics.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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This podcast is about change. And right now, a lot of people, other than dealing with burnout situations, are facing change. In particular, career change, career transitions. Some are not happy with their current work and life. They have a strong desire to refresh their futures.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Others are forced to change because of layoffs or in the name of corporate restructuring, cost efficiency, AI, whatever they name it. Burnout is part of this change process before, during, or even after the change. If I were one of those people in transition, with a burnout situation. I came to you. I asked for advice. So what advice would you give to me? What insights can you share with me?

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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How did you come up with this title?

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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This will be our last question for today's session. Earlier, you emphasized the importance of seeing a therapist or a coach for anyone dealing with burnout. However, from a financial standpoint, what if it's not covered by insurance? In fact, when I had my burnout situation, which was eventually developed into clinical depression situation, I did not get insurance coverage.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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So that was a huge expense for me. What if people simply don't have access to a credible, qualified therapist or consultant like yourself? In that case, could you share some common signs or warning signals that we might be overlooking in our lives and careers? What should we work out for to recognize a potential burnout situation?

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Identifying these signs early on, I think is very crucial that we can address them in a timely, in a proper and systematic manner.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Michael, you are spot on. I have to confess, I've been struggling with sleep issues. My partner keeps reminding me to sort it out. So I'm gradually working on adjusting my sleep schedule. Just yesterday, I was joking with someone about how we don't even use alarm clocks anymore, not since smartphones took over.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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And right here, you just advised me to ditch the phone at night and go back to an old-fashioned alarm clock instead. I'm going to take your advice to heart. Thank you so much, Michael.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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just mentioned in your life, in your career, you've experienced burnout badly. Share with us about your experience back then and how this pain got transformed into a positive force for change and eventually turned into a business today.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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We're all facing different challenges in today's world, but regardless of your age, generation, gender, cultural, and family background, there's one enemy that unites us, burnout. Believe me, I've been there once, twice, and more than twice. Today, we're joined by a fellow burnout survivor and a self-proclaimed chief burnout officer, Michael Levick, from the Breakfast Leadership Network.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Let me tell you a quick story, something that happened just a few days ago. I was scrolling through social media, not something I do often, just killing some time. I stumbled across a post from someone I don't know. This person identified himself or herself as Gen Z. This person had written something really simple, yet profound, which is, this world is so burned out. I feel burned out.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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So I replied, equally simply, I think many of us feel burned out, especially in today's economy. And I added, by the way, I'm from Gen X. To my surprise, that comment got a lot of likes. What this made me realize is that it doesn't really matter if you are from Gen X, Y, Z, or if you are a baby boomer.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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It doesn't matter if you're American, Chinese, Japanese, European, whatever your nationality, whatever your cultural background, whatever your political views, whatever your gender. If there's one common enemy we all face today, I call it burnout. Would you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Michael turned his personal experience into a powerful force for change, helping individuals and organizations overcome burnout and rebound stronger. We had a great conversation on his show, and now he's here to share his insights and strategies with you. Get ready for a conversation between your chief change officer and chief burnout officer.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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So before we talk more about burnout prevention, and how we can help ourselves recover faster and easier from burnout. There's a problem with this problem. Burnout as a problem carries a stigma. I believe this is cross-cultural, especially among leaders, high achieving professionals. You experienced burnout yourself more than 10 years ago before this topic has become mainstream.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Now in your business, in your practice, for the sake of helping people, helping organizations, I was wondering, how did you establish the importance of addressing burnout at the C-level as well as at the operational level? Perhaps at the beginning, when you pioneered this unique role in the corporate world, what challenges did you face? How did you overcome them?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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But pause here to educate us on the potential advantages of psychedelics, especially when approached responsibly. We'll discuss microdosing and its potential to benefit a wide range of people, not only those dealing with mental or medical conditions. As the host of the show, I'm not here to judge my guests.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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I know you've written a book on microdosing. If I understand correctly, please clarify if needed. Over a course of, say, 30 or 45 days, I take a very small dose, about one-tenth of a standard dose, which offers certain benefits, as you described. But would you say it works more like a band-aid?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, We are diving into a topic that's sparking both excitement and debate, psychedelics.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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For example, during those 30 or 45 days, I might feel better, but after stopping, could those effects wear off? It's similar to taking painkiller. I may not feel the pain for a while, but the underlying issue might still be there. So is microdosing more of a short-term fix? And if so, how can we make its benefits more sustainable, ideally without any physiological or psychological risks?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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I offer a forum for diverse voices to share their ideas, thoughts, and approaches aimed at advancing humanity in a positive direction. I ask questions from different perspectives allowing you, our listeners, to draw your own conclusions from these conversations.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Would it be fair to say that micro-dosing serves as a key? It unlocks potential solutions that might help us get unstuck when we feel trapped, like being locked in a room. From what I understand, Microdosing could help us first get out of that mental room, and while it might not immediately review the path forward, it offers a clearer space to start making those decisions.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Whether that means ending a toxic relationship, finding a new job, or even breathtaking career direction. Essentially, it seems like a powerful tool for gaining clarity and reclaiming a sense of control to move forward in a way that makes sense to us. Would you say that's a fair summary?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Here, I'll ask Paul to walk us through some of the common misunderstandings about microdosing and share insights into the ongoing legal and medical debates surrounding psychedelics. We'll also explore some essential safety considerations and responsible practices for those curious about this tool for personal development and leadership growth. Let's get started. Paul, good afternoon.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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As you've explained, there's potential for micro-dosing to benefit a wide range of people, not just those with mental or medical conditions. But then, it's still illegal in many places. and there's ongoing legal and medical debate around it. Could you walk us through some of the common misunderstandings people still have about microdosing?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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And maybe share more about the legal and medical side of the conversation. What are the main concerns? And where do you see the biggest barriers to a border acceptance?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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So you've mentioned a couple of great starting points. Start low and go slow is essential, especially for beginners who might feel uncertain given the controversies, legal risks, and potential side effects. If those convinced by the potential benefits but cautious about legality Going to states or countries where psychedelics are legal is another way to explore responsibly.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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To wrap up our conversation, Paul, could you share more on some essential safety considerations and responsible practices we should keep in mind? What steps can help us approach this new tool for personal development and leadership growth with care and respect?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Welcome to my show. Thank you for joining us.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Thank you. Yes, I'm still finishing my breakfast. But I wouldn't miss this interview for anything. Today, we are diving into a topic that is still pretty controversial, not just here in the US, but worldwide. It's one that comes with its own set of benefits and risks. Paul has been in this space long enough to call himself an expert. So I'm excited to get his insights.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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But first thing first, Paul, can you tell us a bit about yourself? What have you done in the past? And how has those experiences shaped who you are and what you do today?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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My guest is Paul Austin, founder and CEO of Third Wave, a leading voice advocating for the responsible use of psychedelics, especially within the realms of personal and leadership development. Let me make this clear. While there's growing support for the benefits, psychedelics remained illegal in many places, and there's still much debate around the safety, legality, and medical impact.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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From your perspective, you're educating the world on the benefits and potential advantages of using psychedelics responsibly for personal well-being and even for the benefit of teams and communities. So first, can you share how you incorporate psychedelics in your practice and what benefits you've observed? On the flip side, what are some limitations and potential risks?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Help us understand more about the opportunities and the challenges. What should people be cautious about?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Paul, you mentioned there are at least two types of people who can benefit from psychedelics. Those dealing with medical or mental health challenges, like PTSD, and then another group, creative leaders, entrepreneurs, and others whose roles demand a high level of focused mental power. Can you dive a bit deeper into these applications, especially for regular people in high-performance roles?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Perhaps you could share a few stories or examples? no names needed of course, to help us understand how psychedelics can work in this context. I'd love to hear more about how your approach compares and what it offers for those looking to enhance focus and creativity.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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I'd love to hear about the other side of things too. We just discussed a more successful case. But I'm also curious about the challenges you faced in helping people through this journey. Stories where things didn't go as planned. Maybe there's a single story that stands out. or maybe it's a pattern across different experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Whether it's due to a client's own psychology, some part of their past serving as a barrier to change, or something else entirely I'll be interested to know why, even with all the interventions, guidance and effort, things sometimes just don't click. Any insights you can share from these not-so-successful transformations would be valuable.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. So, you're thinking of quitting your job? Trust me, I've been there many times in my corporate life. You've hit a roadblock.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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In today's episode, Darcy and I dive into why staying might be the best move and how you can bounce back from a low point. We are all Incredibles with the superpowers to save ourselves. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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That's a powerful story. Reflecting on my own experience and those of friends, colleagues, and younger professionals I've met, there's one major barrier that often stands out when it comes to navigating career transitions or even finding ways to stay engaged and resilient in the same role without burning out. And that's fear. You explore this in your book and I would like to discuss it further.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Fear is such a powerful force. It can hold us back or if managed well, propel us forward. Could you share more on how this fear factor works in career transitions and how we can learn to manage it better? I can think of so many ways fear plays out. From fear of failure to fear of the unknown.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Great, I'll definitely try some of your strategies. To wrap up though, there's so many things we can do from reading books and getting professional help to learning from others. If you had to give us just a couple of pieces of advice that we can start working, that we can start trying right now, what would those be?

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Absolutely. Getting clarity on the situation before jumping to solutions is key. It's always about understanding the problem deeply before trying to solve it. So often, we think we've identified the issue and rush to fix it, only to find the solution doesn't really fit. because we misjudged the situation from the start.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Focusing on the core of the problem, giving yourself space to analyze and allowing for clarity before taking action or seeking help. can make all the difference.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Many coaches out there say, I help leaders with this and that. But I'm curious, in your practice, which specific groups of leaders are you working with? What particular qualities or types of people do you focus on helping and empowering you?

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Your book is called Red Cape Rescue. The first question that came to my mind was why Red Cape? What is the meaning behind this title?

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Each morning, you're dragging yourself out of bed, dreading the day ahead. The office vibe feels off. Politics and gossip are draining, and deadlines seem endless. Walking away feels like the only way out, whether quietly or loudly. But our guest today, Darcy Eichenberg,

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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So we are all our own superheroes, right? Batman, Spiderman, Superman, the Incredibles. We each have that hero inside us. And as I read your book, I notice you lay it out in three distinct parts. Reset how you think. Revise what you say. and reinvent what you do. Could you give us an overview of these three stages of transformation? Reset, revise, and reinvent.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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I think it would be really helpful for listeners, whether they are senior, junior, or mid-level, who might feel a bit stuck. A breakdown of this process might give them some inspiration and even help them find a way forward.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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we can make active choices of those in the same way that you chose what you the shirt you put on today the first section reset really resonates with me knowing yourself understanding yourself that self-awareness you emphasize is powerful once we graduate from college We are basically on our own with no career center or clear path to guide us. Yet, we have 30, 40, even 50 years of work life ahead.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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And even when career centers are available in college or business school, the scope is often narrowed, leaving us without realistic guidance on figuring ourselves out and charting our own course. So this self-awareness, this self-empowerment that you talk about and reset how you think really feels essential.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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From your experience working with seasoned leaders and helping them figure out who they are and where they're going, Could you share a few examples? Maybe one success story and one more challenging case. Just to give us some insights into the process, the lessons learned, and what navigating those challenges can look like. Story time.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Author of the book titled, Red Cape Rescue, Save Your Career Without Leaving Your Job, says, you don't have to quit to save your career, but how? I know what it's like to feel stuck. Back then, I wished for someone who could help me find a way out. When reading Darcy's book, I kept thinking, I wish I would have this when I needed it. But you don't have to wait.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Maybe one day you could go down a similar path, turning no one cares about your career into something more, perhaps a teaching platform or a series of courses to help people navigate the modern workplace. What do you think about taking that approach?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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In fact, she's gathered so many lessons along the way that she decided to write her first book titled, No One Cares About Your Career. When I saw that title, I knew I had to develop a two-part series featuring Erica. Why does this title hit so hard? Because it's the truth. I've learned it the hard way myself, through the twists and turns of my own career.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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So I started skimming through the first few chapters of your book. As you mentioned, it has a more conversational tone, but it's also packed with real life stories. Tell us more about how your book stands out from other business or career-oriented books.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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in the early part of the book i noticed you actually list out who would be the readers for this book you lay out all the criteria And as I read through them, I thought, oh, I fit this, I fit that. So I know this book is for me. I check off, if not all, at least 9 out of 10 of those points. Then you also make clear who the book is not for with a list of about 20 things.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's episode is a special one for me. I'm joined by none other than Erica Ayers-Bodden, the current CEO of Food52, a leading innovator in the food, cooking, and home space.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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I was relieved because I wasn't any of those. But I would say for sure this book is for people who desire a change at work and understand that change at work is a gateway to changing their life. That's actually the first criterion you list. That's exactly right. For those who like to follow rules and are comfortable following rules, this book is not for you, unfortunately.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Inside, there are a lot, a lot of different stories, and one specific story stands out to me is about your interview with a few major decision makers when you were trying to get a job the ceo job at barstool i found it very very interesting and i'm mostly honest I can definitely relate to your point about how this book is different from others because you tell the truth about what happened.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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At that time, you mentioned you were not sure about the interview's outcome and even thought you did not do well. Then one of those decision makers you spoke with said, I think we could give it a try, although I'm not sure if you can do it. It's so raw and unfiltered. That's what I appreciate. This is why I'm really enjoying the book and I plan to finish it soon.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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I'm excited that Erica has captured this reality so perfectly, and I'm grateful she is saying it out loud, helping others who feel stuck in their careers confront the truth and break free from the baggage holding them back. In this episode, we'll dive into the book why she wrote it, why now, and why this title.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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There are surely a lot of nuggets of wisdom in the book. And one that stands out to me is when you highlight five simple things for anyone to succeed at work. Who you are, what you have to offer, how you show up, what you do with your time, and how much you care. Five core things. Erica, could you briefly walk us through why you chose these five?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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After so many years of working across different industry, in different countries and eventually landing leadership roles and become a CEO who turned a company around. How did you distill all those learnings into these five simple points? And how can we as individuals apply them to move forward in our own careers?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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I found that in my life and in the lives of many successful people I know, Their career decisions, how they present themselves, and what they care about often link back to their past. Whether it's their family upbringing, early experiences, or even the history of their parents or grandparents, these become powerful force that shape who they become.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Could you share a bit more about your younger years? Maybe something from your family and life or childhood that nurtured your business instincts despite not going to business school? Was this something from your past that helped shape the person you are today? Motivated, ambitious, successful, yet always true to yourself?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Plus, we'll unpack some key nuggets of wisdom, including five simple things anyone can do to succeed at work. In the next episode, Erica will open up about her life and career experiences, her upbringing, her parents, her leadership approach, and even her thoughts on toxic work cultures. And here's something you won't hear in other interviews.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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In the next episode, Erica will open up about her life and career experiences. her upbringing, her parents, her leadership approach, and even her thoughts on toxic work cultures. And here's something you won't hear in other interviews. What career advice would she give her own two children who are in middle school, especially in this rapidly changing workplace?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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What career advice would Erica give her own two middle school children, given we are in such a rapidly changing workplace? That's our in-depth look at Erika Ayers Baden. Let's dive right in. Welcome, Erika. Thanks for being here. Thank you, Vince. I'm excited to be here. Erika, let's start with a bit of your career history.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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So initially, you planned to go to law school, or perhaps it was more of an expectation from your parents. But in the end, you chose a different path. What led you to that decision?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Now it's time to dive into your book. I have to confess to the audience. When Erica and her team reached out to me about doing this interview, I immediately said yes, like no hesitation at all. Why? What drew me in so quickly was the title of the book, which is No One Cares About Your Career. This is punchy title.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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and given Erica's expertise in marketing, I'm not surprised she came up with something so catchy. But it's not just about the phrase. It's about those five words. They resonate with me 100%. Seriously, I learned this truth a hard way in my own journey. is one of life's realities. And once I understood it, I accepted it, and even embraced it.

Chief Change Officer

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Erica, if you and I were in a studio together right now, I would give you a hug or at least a solid high five for speaking my mind so perfectly. Take a hug, Vince. Thank you. Thank you. One day when I come to the States and interview you in person, let's do that. Anyway, back to the book title. I'm curious, how did you come up with No One Cares About Your Career as the title?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Was it something you had in mind from the start of your writing process? Or did it come up later, maybe as a result of collaboration with your publisher or editor?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Before her time at Food52, Erica was the first-ever CEO of Barstool Sports, and her career spans across media, marketing, and tech, with roles at companies like Fidelity Investments, Microsoft, AOL, and Yahoo. But let me be clear, this isn't about interviewing someone with big titles. On my show, I bring on guests who are willing to share real life stories. And Erica has no shortage of those.

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With the pandemic, everyone was stuck at home and you used a podcast to keep your team engaged instead of just sending long emails. It helped keep everyone active and connected Soon, more people outside your firm started paying attention, sending in career-related questions, which you began answering. Eventually, it led you to think, why not put all of this into a book?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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A way to reach a wider audience and share your experiences and thoughts more broadly. Does that sound like a fair summary of your journey?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Maybe one day you could become like Ray Dalio, one of the billionaire investors in the U.S., After retiring, he's turned his life's work and lessons into a 600-page book called Principles. I'm sure you've heard of it. He even collaborated with professors to develop courses around content.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode and the last, I'm talking to Christopher Kwak, a third-generation member of a well-established family business in Singapore. against his father's expectations.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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You've accomplished a lot over the years. I'm curious, how does your father see your growth and development? Looking back, you did not follow the path he expected. And over years, you've gone through many changes. If I heard you correctly, you even sold your inheritance to start Triath and raise the capital to build the farm. If I were in your father's shoes...

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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How would I feel seeing my son try out so many different things and achieve so much while still striving for more? Had he said anything to you about your journey so far? How does your family view your transformation?

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#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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I recall you wrote an article titled, Is Singapore still relevant after 50 years? Here's an entrepreneurial view. So you returned to Singapore after Malaysia built up the startup ecosystem and founded your venture capital house. Could you share with us your experience during this time?

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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I can definitely resonate with the Chinese mindset and culture you mentioned earlier. A lot of my friends grew up to become doctors, lawyers, or accountants. Those expected professional paths. I'm actually a trained accountant. That was my first job. But over time, I changed directions. While I don't have your kind of family background, my parents also had expectations for me.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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At some point, I made certain moves to fulfill those expectations. But eventually, I broke free from them. I can really relate to that desire to break free, the persistence it takes, and the actions required to make it happen. The tagline for this show is make change ambitiously. which is all about building your own legacy and creating your own path rather than following a standard playbook.

Chief Change Officer

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In your story and journey so far, I see those elements very clearly. I'm sure your father, your friends, and everyone who has supported you along the way see it too.

Chief Change Officer

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One last question. Since we've talked about intergenerational wealth, and we're now living in an era of intergenerational workforce, I'm curious, you are a father yourself. So what are your expectations for your children as they grow up? In terms of their identity, their careers, and their lives, what do you hope for them?

Chief Change Officer

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Let's wrap up our conversation by looking into the future, not just from a business perspective, but in terms of your children's lives. I think this would be a nice way to close our discussion.

Chief Change Officer

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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I read in your presentation that 92% of businesses in Southeast Asia are family-run. I'd like to dig deeper into the unique challenges these next-gen family business owners face. Could you explain a bit more, especially for listeners who may not be from this part of the world or who don't have experience with family businesses?

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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I think it would be helpful for us to understand the specific challenges because some people might assume, oh, they all have money. So what's the situation? What are the real challenges they face?

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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He left the family business and his home country to pursue entrepreneurship in Malaysia, where he became an e-commerce entrepreneur. Upon returning to Singapore, he sold his inheritance to raise the set up capital for his venture capital firm. Chris wants to be his own man. We've explored his journey of transformation in two parts.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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When I look at your business model for Trice as a VC, it strikes me as quite smart. There are tons of VCs out there, but as I prepare for this interview and read about your approach, I realized how clever it is. So for those who may not be familiar with how venture capital works, VCs don't just invest their own money.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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They also raise money from investors, and then as fiduciaries, managing that pool of money by investing in high growth potential businesses. The objective is for these businesses to succeed, generate returns, and provide profits back to the investors. What stands out about your model, Chris, is that you've built a strong network with the next generation of family business owners.

Chief Change Officer

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These individuals have capital, and you are able to raise money from them. They don't have to commit a massive amount of money. Perhaps each might allocate a million dollars or so, maybe even low seven-figure sum. But with the right scale, even a half million dollar check for each could add up significantly as limited partners in your fund.

Chief Change Officer

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Your fund has deployed about $40 million so far, investing in technologies with next gen solutions that could be highly relevant to these family businesses. This creates a cycle of synergy You raise funds, invest in technology, and these technologies can in turn serve as solutions for the businesses of your investors.

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It's a cycle that keeps the entire engine moving along smoothly, allowing you to continue raising funds and investing in technology that benefits everyone involved. I must say, the whole setup makes a lot of sense to me.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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The last episode focused on his pursuit of his own identity, his desires, his actions, the why and the how. In this episode, We'll dive into his work as a VC investor, building up the entrepreneurial ecosystem in Singapore and Southeast Asia. We'll discuss the legacy he hopes to create for his country and the region. And we'll talk about his expectations for his children as a father at age 46.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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It's like planting a seed. Along the way, you nurture it. And eventually, it bears fruit. Life has a way of bringing things back to you at the right time if you go with the flow.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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I'm not being religious here, but after years of cross-cultural experiences, getting to know different cultures, people, and backgrounds, I've noticed that certain common themes link up the decisions I've made in my career and life. So I'm curious about your journey. You are 46 with family and children.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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Looking back up to this point in your life, have you discovered or identified any common themes that have guided the moves you've made along the way?

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode and the next, I'll be talking to Christopher Quek, a third-generation member of a well-established family business in Singapore.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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We'll also explore his expectations for his own children as a father at age 46. Chris, welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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As I was listening, two words came to mind, self-discovery and self-fulfillment. It seems that your life and career have been about discovering, identifying, and fulfilling your identities. While you've mentioned roles like entrepreneur and now investor, these are more like perspectives you take or roles you play. But I believe that identity is something essential or central to everyone's life.

Chief Change Officer

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Not just for those with privileged backgrounds, but for anyone and everyone. I know some really successful people who, by the time they retire or near the end of their life journey, regret that they followed the standard playbook and never gave themselves a chance to do more. To do something different, for example.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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So I appreciate your boldness, your adventurous attitude, and the actions you've taken so far. I recall you wrote an article titled, Is Singapore Still Relevant After 50 Years? Here's an Entrepreneurial View. So you returned to Singapore after Malaysia. built up the startup ecosystem and founded your venture capital house. Could you share with us your experience during this time?

Chief Change Officer

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Stay tuned for the part two of Chris' Journey of Transformation. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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Chris and I met a few years back through a common friend in Singapore. Since then, we've exchanged a lot of ideas about entrepreneurship, investment and more. Today, I invite Chris to come over to our show and share with us about his own journey into entrepreneurship and investment, as well as his vision for driving change in the Southeast Asian entrepreneurial ecosystem.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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At the start, Chris, could you share with us about your background and personal career? Then we'll explore different parts of your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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You mentioned you were raised in a fairly established family business. You could have taken the easy route, taken over the family business, scale it up, and continued making money. But instead, you chose to be more entrepreneurial and take risks.

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I'm curious, was there anything in your childhood, in your family education, or the environment you grew up in that helped shape your entrepreneurial spirit and mindset?

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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Against his father's expectations, he left the family business and his home country to pursue entrepreneurship in Malaysia. where he became an e-commerce entrepreneur. Upon returning to Singapore, he sold his inheritance to raise the set of capital for his venture capital firm. Chris wants to be his own man. We will explore his journey of transformation in two parts.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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I totally see it. While I don't have your kind of family background, I can relate in other ways. I'm just about five years older than you. I might have a baby face, but actually 51. My journey in the business world, aside from formal education and business school, was shaped largely by the people around me.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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I worked in corporate jobs at global organizations, and the best learning I've ever received wasn't just from corporate training. It was from people. Like you, I learned a lot from those with on-the-job experience, whether it was my bosses, colleagues, or mentors. These are things that aren't digitalized or written in books, but are passed down directly, much like how your father trained you.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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I picked up concepts like business models, revenue structures, and cost management early on. Often before I even knew the formal terms. What really resonated with me was the encouragement and confidence these people gave me before I even believed in myself. They gave me opportunities to try something new and different.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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And that's something I can surely relate to in your experience, even though we come from different family backgrounds.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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It's interesting that you brought up Li Ka-shing because as you were sharing how your father trained you during your childhood, it reminded me of a well-known story about Li Ka-shing himself. For the listeners who may not know who Li Ka-shing is, Originally from Hong Kong, he is the founder of a multi-billion dollar business conglomerate with a global footprint.

Chief Change Officer

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He famously brought his eldest son, Victor Lee, into the boardroom at the age of eight to immerse him in the boardroom dynamics. Clearly, he was preparing him as the heir to the business. Back to you, Chris. Your father obviously had high expectations for you to take over the family business. Yet, you only stayed in China for three days and then headed off to Malaysia.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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This episode focuses on his pursuit of his own identity, his desires, his actions, the why and the how. In the next episode, we'll dive into his current work as a VC investor building up the entrepreneurial ecosystem in Singapore and Southeast Asia. We'll discuss the legacy he hopes to create for his country and the region.

Chief Change Officer

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Where did you find the courage or the guts to make that decision? And can you share more about your e-commerce business in Malaysia? What did you learn during those six years there?

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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I like what you said about identity is so true. Many of us, whether we realize it or not, we are in some kind of identity crisis. You see it all the time. People giving themselves titles like CEO when they've just started a venture. or crafting these polished personal brands on social media that don't always align with their real actions or true values.

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It's like they're trying to create this facade, but underneath, they've lost the direction. They are part of a herd mentality. whether it's in their career or even in knowing who they are. And that ties directly to resilience, like you said. It's about holding on to something real, something solid. It's not just about revenue, growth percentages, and fleshy titles.

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It's about asking, what have I learned? Who have I met? How have I grown? So with that in mind, let's talk about your venture, Tiger Hall. Tell us as if we know nothing about it. What's the story behind this company? What problem are you solving? Who are you solving it for? And how are you tackling it?

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#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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I'm so happy to be here. Nelly and I share at least one thing in common, which is extensive experience in Asia. Originally from Europe, Nelly spent a significant amount of time in Singapore and still maintains strong connections with clients and contacts in Asia. Now, she's based in the US, bringing together a wealth of cross-cultural experiences.

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#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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So you're running a tech platform, a software?

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm joined by Nellie Wotoff, someone I'd like to call the chief change officer behind Change Leaders.

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#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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In part two tomorrow, Nellie will continue sharing her story of starting Tiger Hall, how she navigates the cultural differences across three regions, and why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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Before we dive into those experiences and insights, Nellie, let's start with your story. Not the typical job interview introduction, but a deeper dive into your journey. Where are you originally from? What brought you to Asia? How did those experiences lead you to move to LA and take on the work you are doing now? Let's begin there.

Chief Change Officer

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Two weeks ago, I interviewed a guest who described himself as a change addict. That phrase stuck with me. When you mentioned being a risk taker and not following a standard playbook, choosing to carve your own path, it reminded me of that mindset. It also explains why you do what you do now, which we'll dive into shortly. You and I are not the type to settle in a comfort zone

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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When everything seems calm and everyone around us says, why change? Everything is just fine. For us, it's not about comfort. It's about growth, progress, and doing things differently, better. While others may not fully understand, we see opportunities where they don't. and we create our own paths forward. That's why I come up with the term called growth progressive.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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I call my show a space designed for growth progressives. People stay in their comfort zones, still seek growth, but they follow a traditional framework, extended playbook. Those I call growth conventionalists. But people like us, we push boundaries. We explore the uncharted, take risks and figure things out as we go. That's what being a growth progressive is all about.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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Would you see yourself that way?

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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You describe yourselves as adventurous, rustic, gross, progressive, someone who doesn't follow the standard playbook. Before starting Tiger Hall, you worked in headhunting. Can you tell us more about your experience in that world?

Chief Change Officer

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Were there any pivotal moments, maybe a major change, a bold transition, or a risk you took that shaped your journey or influenced your decision to build something entirely your own?

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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Originally from Europe, she spent years in Asia, especially in Singapore, working across cultures. Now based in US, Nellie is the founder and CEO of Tiger Hall, a tech-driven platform helping organizations navigate change more effectively. This is part one of a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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You described the fast-paced nature of your work. Those 7 to 11 days filled with constant demands. I can feel the drive and dedication you had during that time. I can relate to that, having been in a similar environment during my corporate days at Standard & Poor's. Back then, covering the Asia region meant working 9 to 12th. Not kidding, even on weekends.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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But like you, I found this fast pace and creative problem solving extremely fulfilling. It wasn't just hard work. It was engaging and rewarding. But with that level of immersion comes stress. sometimes the kind that can weigh you down. In today's world, resilience has become almost a necessity. In your case, how did you build resilience to stay focused and keep moving forward?

Chief Change Officer

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Whether in your personal or professional life, What approach or practice help you push through tough times and maintain balance?

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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In these episodes, we'll dive into navigating cultural differences across three regions, why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Let's get started. Nellie, good afternoon to you in Los Angeles. Welcome to the show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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He's the author of Living a Values-Based Life and the creator of the leadership model called Excellent Decisions. In this two-part series, we'll dive into what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. We'll also explore how to make our values visible and sustainable in a world that's constantly changing.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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Robert, we've got a lot of good stuff today in our interview. Any final message you'd like to share with the audience?

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few years ago, I joined a growing venture as the chief people officer. It lasted just six weeks.

Chief Change Officer

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I like your quote. Without implementation is just a nice conversation. Thank you so much, Robert.

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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If you feel stuck in your current workplace, it's not necessarily your fault. Often, it's just a misalignment of values. Don't bend your values to fit in. Instead, find a place and a tribe whose values resonate with yours. That's where true happiness and success lie. Let's dive in. My follow-up question is about what happens after we identify our values.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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Even if we genuinely figure out and believe in them, whatever those values are, like honesty, humanity, the next step is the hardest, practicing them consistently. How do you advise your clients to implement their values in daily life? For businesses, this could be challenging, but equally difficult for individuals. Even with the best intentions, staying mindful and consistent isn't easy.

Chief Change Officer

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How do you suggest we monitor and sustain our actions to align with our values? Talk is cheap. I believe talk and talk and walk the walk matters when it comes to implementation of values. If I were your client asking, we've identified my values. What do I do next? How would you guide me?

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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To that CEO, I may have seemed incompetent, but I knew exactly why I had to leave so quickly. It was a major clash of values. I believe in being true and ethical in both words and deeds, while he thrived on a man-made facade of showmanship and hypocrisy. Knowing my values made the decision clear. This experience ties directly to today's guest. Robert Mercier.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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Do values change over time with new experiences and perspectives?

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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As you were sharing, I couldn't help but think It's not just about the different stages of our lives or the roles we play. For example, I transitioned from corporate life to entrepreneurship, moving from a world of abundant resources to one where I'm spending my own money testing ideas and navigating uncertainties. Big changes like these influence our values.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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Now, one could argue that if I value honesty, it should stay constant regardless of my circumstances. True, but even the interpretation or perception of honesty evolves over time. As I play new roles and build up different experiences, I found that how I uphold honesty adapts For example, with certain people or situations, I might feel the need to stand firm in my values.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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But with others, especially those who don't operate, honestly, I might decide it's not worth engaging or holding them to the same standard. It's not about abandoning my value. but recognizing when and how to apply it. This evolution, I think, speaks to how our brains collect data and adjust over time. Sometimes is a cautious recalibration.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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Other times is our minds engaging in what I call self-justification. helping us rationalize our actions in ways that align with what we want to believe. So when values may shift, the interpretation and application of those values change as we grow and learn.

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

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After a year away from her consultancy, Erica returned with fresh purpose, balancing her career on a three-day work week, launching a podcast and expanding her reach to create a bigger impact. Yesterday, part one, Erica shared her career journey, the twist and the turns, and the accident that changed everything.

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

13.015

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm speaking with Erica Sosna, a fellow podcast host and the author of The Career Equation, who, like me, is passionate about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

136.259

Today, in part two, she'll share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter, shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created and how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our careers. Your experience and the journey are exceptional.

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

184.115

The challenges you faced, both physical and mental, are beyond what many of us could even imagine. I deeply applaud you for that resilience. As I listened, I wondered, now that you're looking back, and you call yourself exceptional, which I think is entirely fitting, what would you say is your superpower?

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

214.817

If you had to pinpoint exactly what it is that helps you sustain and succeed through all of those things, what would that be? Is it a deep-rooted faith? something within your career equation or another quality? What do you think that allowed you to endure all the pain and ultimately come back even stronger?

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

58.479

But what makes Erica's story unique is her remarkable journey of resilience, purpose, and transformation in 2022 a life-changing accident left her paralyzed facing months of recovery through immense pain and uncertainty erica fought her way back back to walking back to work and back to a renewed mission.

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

652.891

That's the lived experience that really matters. My podcast is about real, raw, lived experiences, not polished success stories. Now, I'd like to dive into your book, The Career Equation. I've skimmed through it myself and noticed you focus on helping employers better support the career growth of their employees.

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

685.919

Many career books are aimed at individuals taking charge of their own career paths, but you've chosen to speak directly to employers. Since we have a few minutes left, I think it would be great to web up with this. How do you help employers enhance the career experience with the teams?

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

716.465

What steps can they take to create an environment where employees feel not just more productive, but truly motivated and committed? This is a relevant question to many people out there feeling stuck in the workforce, looking for a way to feel more engaged and valued.

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

101.998

After a year away from her consultancy, Erica returned with fresh purpose, balancing her career on a three-day work week, launching a podcast and expanding her reach to create a bigger impact. Yesterday, part one, Erica shared her career journey, the twist and the turns, and the accident that changed everything.

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

1172.417

Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

13.015

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm speaking with Erica Sosna, a fellow podcast host and the author of The Career Equation, who, like me, is passionate about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

136.259

Today, in part two, she'll share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter, shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created and how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our careers. Your experience and the journey are exceptional.

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

184.115

The challenges you faced, both physical and mental, are beyond what many of us could even imagine. I deeply applaud you for that resilience. As I listened, I wondered, now that you're looking back, and you call yourself exceptional, which I think is entirely fitting, what would you say is your superpower?

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

214.817

If you had to pinpoint exactly what it is that helps you sustain and succeed through all of those things, what would that be? Is it a deep-rooted faith? something within your career equation or another quality? What do you think that allowed you to endure all the pain and ultimately come back even stronger?

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

58.479

But what makes Erica's story unique is her remarkable journey of resilience, purpose, and transformation in 2022 a life-changing accident left her paralyzed facing months of recovery through immense pain and uncertainty erica fought her way back back to walking back to work and back to a renewed mission.

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

652.891

That's the lived experience that really matters. My podcast is about real, raw, lived experiences, not polished success stories. Now, I'd like to dive into your book, The Career Equation. I've skimmed through it myself and noticed you focus on helping employers better support the career growth of their employees.

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

685.919

Many career books are aimed at individuals taking charge of their own career paths, but you've chosen to speak directly to employers. Since we have a few minutes left, I think it would be great to web up with this. How do you help employers enhance the career experience with the teams?

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

716.465

What steps can they take to create an environment where employees feel not just more productive, but truly motivated and committed? This is a relevant question to many people out there feeling stuck in the workforce, looking for a way to feel more engaged and valued.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

101.401

After a year away from her consultancy, Erica returned with fresh purpose, balancing her career on a three-day work week, launching a podcast and expanding her reach to create a bigger impact. Today, part one, Erica shares her career journey, the twist and the turns and the accident that changed everything.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

1016.305

Those setbacks ended up leading to new insights, to new heights, knowing what I can and I cannot do, what I can accept, and what doesn't fit me at all. It helps me become laser-focused on what really works for me and what's worth pursuing. That clarity can be powerful, almost like a reckoning, and turn tough moments into real growth opportunities.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

1050.98

So I love hearing about how career transitions shaped you. And you also mentioned that you've been through personal events, life events that brought an other layer of challenge and insight. Would you mind sharing more about those experiences?

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm speaking with Erica Sosna, a fellow podcast host and the author of The Career Equation, who, like me, is passionate about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

137.802

Then in part two, airing tomorrow, she'll share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created and how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our careers. Good afternoon, Erica. Welcome to our show.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

1486.775

Just now, Erica shared her career journey, the twists, the turns and the accident that changed everything. Tomorrow in part two, she will share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter, shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created,

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

1523.72

and tell us how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our career. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

184.664

Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Thank you so much, friends. I'm delighted to be here. Erica is also a podcast host, and she covers careers. So does that make us competitors? I don't think so. I see it more like we are part of this big circle, a world where so many people are focused on their future, their life, and their career.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

217.451

I think we are both contributing to something bigger by sharing insights, lessons, and experiences in a human, direct way. Hopefully this helps someone get inspired or maybe even get unstuck. So Erica, let's start with you. Tell us a bit about yourself, your story and your experience before we drill down into your insights.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

497.634

Transitions, there's so many kinds. We often think of transition as just changing jobs, but it's more than that. It's not just jumping from Google to Microsoft in the same industry. Sometimes it's moving to a totally different industry or even changing countries, cities, and life itself. Erica, in your journey so far,

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

531.658

If I were to ask about how you've navigated and managed your own transitions, could you share a couple of stories, maybe one related to your own career and one to your personal life? I think it would give us a deeper understanding of your experience and why you are so well-equipped

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

57.86

But what makes Erica's story unique is her remarkable journey of resilience, purpose, and transformation in 2022 a life-changing accident left her paralyzed facing months of recovery through immense pain and uncertainty erica fought her way back back to walking back to work and back to a renewed mission.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

978.121

I totally relate to your story. Before I launched this podcast, I also faced setbacks and failures. That took a lot of reflection to walk through. Like you said, it was devastating when it happened. But once I worked through those feelings, it became an opportunity to look inward, to be honest with yourself, and eventually grow out of it.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

1084.899

Over the years, you've worked with so many people and have seen firsthand how they tell the stories and craft the narratives. So what's the worst story you've ever heard?

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

1263.7

For you to be where you are now, living the life you want and helping others do the same, you must have transformed your own narrative from a difficult place to a much better one. Before we ask the next question, I'd love to hear if you're open to sharing. How you managed to break free from a narrative that was holding you back?

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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How did you go about breaking it down and then recomposing it into something much more empowering?

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

13.012

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

134.283

In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages. Yesterday in part one, we explored his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate story and understand the connection between story and narrative. Today in part two, We'll look at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shares some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

1479.025

Absolutely. The quality of the output is directly tied to the quality of what you put in. The better the input, the more authentic and accurate the outcome. That makes perfect sense. Now, let's lighten things up a bit. You've told me about the worst story you've ever heard. Let's flip the script. What is the best story you've come across so far?

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

177.291

He will also open up about his own mental health challenge. Then in part three... He'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry. I'll also be sharing my own experience with another exercise. highlighting both its challenges and insights.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

1979.838

I love what you said about real, real stories. About the struggles, the pains, the real journeys that people experience. And I totally agree. And that's exactly what I do on this show. Authentic stories resonate deeply because they reflect the full spectrum of life, not just the highlights.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

2008.294

So for those listening who might not have direct access to professional guidance, what can they do to craft and shape their own stories? Whether they are in career transition, facing personal challenges, or just feeling stuck, what would you suggest? as essential steps for creating a story that truly resonates with who they are.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

2084.074

Just now, we looked at storytelling for personal transformation. As Chris shared some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard. He also opened up about his own mental health challenges. Then tomorrow, in part three, he will introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here is a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

2128.615

I'll also be sharing my own experience with an other exercise highlighting both its challenges and insights. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

221.448

So let's dive into the second chapter of Chris' story. So far, we've covered a lot about narrative and storytelling in a business context. But as you mentioned earlier, Narrative can also play a powerful role at an individual level for leaders, for people in career transitions, or even entrepreneurs building a new venture.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

262.479

My next question naturally is, how do we apply narrative and story to individual situations? Could you walk us through some examples to help industry this?

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

51.448

Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

585.037

It sounds like you are visualizing each story or Lego brick as a piece of who you are, such as experiences, skills, moments, and memories you've collected over the years. Maybe you've built a specific narrative with those bricks, a structure you've told others and taught yourself for a long time.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

620.004

By working with someone like you or learning your method, it's like I'm reorganizing those bricks in a new way, rearranging them, to create a fresh, evolved narrative. So even though people might say, wow, this is the whole new Vince, it's still me, using the same foundational pieces, I'm just combining them differently. Highlighting new connections and themes is like building a new structure

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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But every piece is part of my story. Just reimagine.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

719.136

My own sense of self-awareness has grown over time. Now, I talk to different people, like entrepreneurs, who say, Oh, I know myself better than anyone else. And they have a lot of confidence in their own self-awareness. But telling our own story, crafting our narrative, or even deciding which bricks to use and how to arrange them isn't that easy because we all have blind spots.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

756.641

So my question for you is, what are some common blind spots or barriers that make telling our own story or building self-awareness so challenging? And why is it helpful to bring in someone like you to help with this process?

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

795.139

Right.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

91.669

I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story. My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

102.284

I could easily spend a good 10 minutes here just running through her credentials bio and all the incredible things she's achieved. But let's be honest, I know you're here for the insights. So while I'm skipping the long intro to save us some time, I can't recommend enough diving into her profile yourself. Trust me, if you're even a bit of a nerd like me, Juliana's work is a gold mine.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

1135.047

So are you carrying on with your original research back in 2020 and today with all the new development and still studying this? If you are, what's your status? What's your observation?

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

12.364

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Coming to us from the halls of UC Berkeley is associate professor and psychologist, Juliana Schroeder.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

1206.053

Now, let me share a bit about my user viewpoint. Yes, I use chat GPT sometimes. I don't have that conscious feelings of power when I use it. Do I see it as assistant? I see it as honestly as a colleague, so to speak. Although I found this colleague, a lot of times provides me with a huge degree of confirmation bias. Whatever I say, oh yeah, that's right. You can think of it this way and all that.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

1240.226

I'm very conscious about confirmation bias when I use CheckGPT. When I ask them questions, I try to get them to help me figure it out, or maybe write something more for me, give me more inspiration, creativity, and they keep coming back with the same idea. Eventually I said, that's not working.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

1263.297

I would imagine if this is talking to a human colleague, I might be more careful in terms of the language I use. Am I saying any things that may upset you? But I still see it as a machine. And as of now, the emotional aspect of it is not so human yet. So that's why I don't see it just as an assistant. I would take it more like advisor, you know, depending on situation.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

1338.07

Well, if I structure the questions, I must say they give me some ideas as if I'm talking to a fairly intelligent person. And then we keep communicating. Then this kind of interaction or conversation sometimes, honestly, is more interesting. than talking to a human who may not have any sense of independent thinking.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

134.983

Juliana and I met at Chicago Booth. She was my TA for two courses taught by two amazing professors and social psychologists, Nick Apley and Linda Ginzel. I still remember the first day we met, I was sitting next to her on the front row when the whole classroom was packed. I didn't know she was actually my TA. I raised hand and answered the question. I got the question wrong.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

1360.588

I do see the value in terms of using the machine, a highly intelligent machine, and me as the human also being aware of what kind of biases that I may face if I use this tool. Just be aware of that, be mindful not to be distracted or get so carried away by that. So far, this conversation, this interaction for me is still manageable.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

1392.298

But then I watched a video posted by an adjunct professor of entrepreneurship from Chicago Bull. The topic is why AI may be your best astrologist. I know you work with and teach a lot of MBAs, executives. Do you see us, like people like us, decision-making, executive decision-making, perhaps AI could be one of our best astrologists?

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

166.16

Then she whispered to me, trying to explain the reason why. Then we met again in Singapore. This time, I pulled her aside. asking her about reciprocity, a very important concept in psychology and negotiation. In my eyes, she is very sharp. Those who know me well understand that I use this word very selectively as a compliment. Over time, I've observed the growth of her academic career.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

1719.628

Last question, I'd like to get your insights. Now, you study human to human interaction conversation, and we just talk about me as a human talking, working with a machine. This human and machine interaction will become more and more common. For younger kids, they are going to grow up in this era. So they just would be more immersed in this space.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

1749.377

Adults being trained and grow up in an era where it's just human to human. And now we are in this human machine era. So what advice would you give to MBA students, executives, managers, how we could make better use of our human communication skills Or if you have to highlight a couple of premium human qualities, human skills that we should hold on to.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

202.537

I told myself, I must invite her to my podcast. So, wish granted, here we are. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

2087.083

Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

227.808

Let's start with a brief introduction of your background. For the benefit of the audience, how I met Juliana, that was when I was at Chicago Bull.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

302.088

Check out your personal website. You have published a lot of papers over time. Like you said, you study power, study negotiation, decision making. I was wondering when you were in the master, PhD program, when you were thinking of

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

319.979

Choosing specific areas of research, why you chose language, mind perception, what's fascinating about those areas that you decide, well, yeah, I really, really want to go deep to become a deep thinker, researcher, and teacher in those areas?

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

46.776

You might have noticed most of our guests have taken quite the scenic route through their careers. Juliana, on the other hand, has kept her eyes on one prize, digging deep into the human mind. which is now leading the charge in teaching negotiation and management to both MBA students and seasoned executives.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

483.593

One thing before we deep dive into your research areas, while you're talking about trying to understand the mind in other people, always wondering like psychologists themselves, how they try to understand their own psychology. You, as a living human, how you perceive or figure out your own psychology, would you make you smarter or more complicated in a sense to

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

512.748

Figure out your own psychological state of mind when something exciting happened or something bad happened.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

621.018

Now, but that's one area or in particular one paper that interests me when I did my research for this interview. This paper was published in year 2020. It's called Power and Decision Making.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

637.865

new directions for research in the age of artificial intelligence now that's 2020 that's before we have chat gpt and many other ai tools as of today so can you tell us a bit more about your argument for that paper back then

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

73.851

Take a quick look at her website or UC Berkeley's, and you'll be blown away by her achievements. We are talking a laundry list of titles, a mountain of papers, and a substantial collection of awards. And get this, she's bagged not one, but two master's degrees and two PhDs at an age where many are still figuring things out.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

100.541

Join me as I chat with Fatou Zegna So, a remarkable individual I had the pleasure of studying together during our executive MBA classes in London and in Singapore with Chicago Booth. She has since moved from the well-established legal profession to economic development, technical advisory and youth entrepreneurship in Senegal. In her own words, she aims not just to succeed, but to create magic.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

1080.618

Wow. It sounds like a dream come true for you. Well, but to be honest, in life, in career, when we are in the process of making changes, whatever those are, it's not an on-off switch. It's never perfect. In one of our episodes, in fact, the first episode, I interview our classmate Pei Ling, who is a parliamentarian in Singapore.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

1111.065

Now, she won the battle, won the election, but she admits that during that period of time, the campaigning or even post-campaigning, it was the darkest period in her life. She overcame it, but it's a process. So in your case, tell us honestly, have you ever felt any moment of regret or discouragement or depression or difficulties, any sort of those? And how did you make through it?

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

13.067

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Imagine this, you are in Paris, the city of lights, where you were born and raised.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

1315.493

Of course, you build a lot of credentials, reputation in the political circle, which is important, which is an asset, which is a capital. And now you are playing a consultant role I'm curious to know about in your country now, what are some of the issues, challenges or opportunities you try to overcome for the country as a consultant?

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

137.481

What drives a person to embrace such profound change? How does a lawyer used to practicing set laws becoming a chief change officer, making her own laws of change for careers, for communities, and for societies? Fatou is going to tell her own story.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

1444.583

You mentioned about building an entrepreneurship ecosystem for the young people in Senegal. Most problem.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Well, you're linking cultures, you're linking talents, you're linking skills, you're linking experiences. For the benefits of Africa.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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yeah yeah before covid i was involved in the education technology space among all the countries in the world one of those excitement actually happened in africa a lot of young talent they all pray for more education newer skills if we think of it as we are economists basically there's a huge workforce

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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that yet to be tapped into and that would be a huge productivity growth if you can make the best use of the talent pool in that region. So I can't wait enough to hear more stories, more success stories from you about linking Europeans with Africans and possibly even other parts of the world to create that kind of magic.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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So first start with France and then Wendatco, right? And so there would be other countries.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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I'm so glad you agreed to come on board. Well, it's been how many years? Last time I saw you in Singapore, is that right?

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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So I'm sure when I invite you back next time for an interview, you'll say, well, Vince, well, it's not just France. Now I got another 10 countries or 20 countries. I won't be shocked to hear that. I've occupied your airtime for long. I do...

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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want to say thank you so much for sharing and i will of course like to invite you back to hear more of those magic magical stories you're trying to create but we'll save it for next time we'll build the momentum so that we'll have the part two well thank you so much i loved it very much talking

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Well, I would say as a conclusion, you study law, you study all kinds of law books, you memorize all the rules and stuff, but now you are making your own playbook, your own law book for change, for magic. This program, this show is about making changes, making your own laws of change. You are truly a role model of creating your own law book, your own playbook.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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I'm really glad that I invited you in the very first place and really appreciate your time. I would encourage you since you're reaching out to different people, what you share here, I'll release it as an episode. You should also share this link to your counterparts. I will. I think they would care to know about your motivation. You as a founder story.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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I mean, why for two years doing this and then they listen to this. Oh, I know why you make this big commitment moving from France from a stable job to a position of stability to a position of challenge or creating magic. I think they will be touched. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Yeah. So you moved from where you were born and raised Back to your root, your origin in Africa. Now, before we go deep into the Africa situation, what actually moved you to take this leap of faith from legal profession in banking back to your root? There must be a lot of thought going on, a lot of debate, perhaps, in your mind and among your family members. What happened then?

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Picture yourself as a highly skilled in-house counsel at one of the world's largest banking groups, overseeing a team of 50 and spearheading billion-dollar financial transactions. Life isn't just good. It's picture perfect. Now, what if I challenged you to leave it all behind?

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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I think I did well. Sounds like it was a calculated decision. It wasn't a spur of the moment thing. You were prudent enough to plan ahead. Now you move in the year 2016. Now it's 2024, eight years. You've explored opportunities. You experienced new life. Now, I was wondering... What one thing, what that one thing is that motivate you if I have to ask you to come up with one word?

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Would you say identity? I sense that for you, born and raised in the developed economy, France, Paris, legal profession, stability, that is part of your identity. But you have the other piece of you which lies in your root, in your origin. You identify with it. You resonate with it. You see a lot of things going on. You really want to do something about it. I think identity is your calling.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Would you agree? Yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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What if I invited you to move with your whole family to Senegal, a vibrant country in West Africa, once a French colony, to start afresh? Would you take the leap? For many, the answer would be a no. But today's guest isn't just anyone.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Yeah, you are setting up a role model for your children. They see you in action. They see that, oh, my mother Making a move. I mean, honestly, a lot of things I'm sure going on in your life in Africa. And they are there with you. They see a lot of things which they most likely won't see in France. Yes, after they grow up, they can move back to France or move to other countries to be adventurous.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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to do whatever they want to do to create impact for themselves as well as for other people because that's what my mother has done for Africa, for many other countries. So now, let's spend the rest of our time on Africa. Tell us about your time as a technical advisor. What did you see? What have you done? What challenges were you facing at that point?

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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As I'm listening to you, I'm visualizing this noble purpose as being at the top. And then these five principles you mentioned serve as the pillars supporting and driving that purpose. If I'm understanding correctly, these principles are the foundation for everything. I'd love to learn more about each of these fundamental behaviors. Could you walk me through them?

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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When it comes to these five behaviors, generosity, resourcefulness, co-creation, action, and gratitude. I know each one could probably have an entire episode of its own with so much depth behind them, but I still love to get an overview of what they mean in the context of your methodology. How do these behaviors show up? How can we nurture and manifest them?

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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Not just for our own benefit, but also for the benefit of the team.

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Don't burn bridges. Keep up with business connections and personal relationships.

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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In today's episode, I sit down with two guests, Edward Van Duden and Tricia Strong, to talk about connection and collaboration. Yesterday, Edward and Tricia reflected on their own collaborative journey, which started 10 years ago at Disley. They turned a positive work relationship into a sustainable personal friendship that has now grown into a business partnership.

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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Tushar, you've quoted some important statistics about the scale of these problems. and we've gone deep into the method and solutions. But I want to shift from the macro view to a more micro view. We know these issues have economic implications, but why do we even have these problems in the first place?

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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Another way to look at it is why is collaboration in organizations so difficult to embrace and practice? Is it due to office politics, ego, inexperience, or something else? Could you highlight some of the key hurdles you see when it comes to fostering real collaboration within a team?

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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and a co-authoring collaboration on a book about collaboration. Today, part two will dive into the vision and framework for collaboration centered on a noble purpose and five key behaviors. What are these behaviors? How can we practice them? And why is collaboration so challenging today? I assure you, the method isn't just another software solution.

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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I had the privilege of getting a sneak peek at the framework of your book. You've interviewed a lot of experienced and interesting figures to gather stories and lessons. I can't wait to read it myself once it hits the market. For today's listeners, whether they're managing a team, building a startup, or even a CEO of a larger firm.

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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What are some actionable DIY do-it-yourself tips they can start implementing right after listening to this episode? Edward, you mentioned before that collaboration is a process. So what's something they can do now to kickstart that engine and move forward more collaborative outcomes? Any quick practical advice for them?

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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It's far more human-centered than what we're used to seeing. Let's start collaborating. Before we dive into the five principles in your book and the noble purpose behind it, I want to ask, why does this book matter? On the flip side, what is the problem you're trying to solve with the book? From what you've shared with me so far, you believe collaboration

Chief Change Officer

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is the solution to many of the biggest workplace challenges. So if collaboration is the key, that means there are a lot of issues in the workplace today. What are those problems?

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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Because you never know when that connection or person could become your collaborator, business partner, or referral to a great opportunity. That's how I landed five job offers within three months after leaving a role that led to mental depression years ago. Today, though, it's so easy to burn and build bridges. You can add a friend in quotation in one second. and just as easily delete them.

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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So that's why the name of the book is Collaborate to Compete. Collaborate internally to compete successfully externally, right?

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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So tell me more about this noble purpose. How do you define it?

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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This user-friendly, in quotation, UI UX experience has seeped into our modern mindset, making it effortless to kick people out of our own circles or lives. But without sustainable connections, How can we collaborate, build stronger teams, and create outcomes that benefit everyone?

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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So if I understand correctly, after your time at Disney... Both of you went your separate ways, pursuing your own paths, but you stayed in close touch as friends. Then, at some point, you reunited and started working together again, forming a company, and even co-authoring a new book. Is that a fair way to summarize your 10-year journey together?

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Don't burn bridges.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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And both of you were sharing your memories. It made me reflect on my own experiences working in corporations. I've had some great memories and some not so great ones. I remember working with amazing colleagues, some more senior, some junior, or maybe at the same level, often in different offices and locations. These were people I had such a strong connection with even hanging out after work.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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But as time passed, I moved on to other things, became an entrepreneur, and while I kept in touch with some of them, others drifted away. Our conversations became fewer, and the connection faded over time. sometimes naturally, sometimes with a sense of loss.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

134.696

In today's episode, I sit down with two guests, Edward Van Duden and Tricia Strong, to talk about connection and collaboration. This is part one of our two-part series. Today, Edward and Tricia will look back on their own collaborative journey, which started 10 years ago at Disley. They turned a positive work relationship into a sustainable personal friendship

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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I guess what I'm trying to say here is, since we're talking about collaboration today, which I see as a form of relationship, I'm curious about your journey together. You started as work friends, obviously had a positive working relationship and then stayed in touch after your time at Disney.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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But how did you sustain that work friendship and evolve it into a personal relationship and then eventually into a business partnership? I think this would be really meaningful to hear, especially in today's world with the rise of social media, building and maintaining real connections isn't easy.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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So I love to hear your insights on how you kept that relationship strong and turned it into something much deeper. both personally and professionally.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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Before we dive into the five principles in your book and the noble purpose behind it, I want to ask, why does this book matter? On the flip side, what is the problem you're trying to solve with the book? From what you've shared with me so far, you believe collaboration is the solution to many of the biggest workplace challenges. So if collaboration is the key,

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

181.089

that has now grown into a business partnership and a co-authoring collaboration on a book about collaboration. In tomorrow's episode, part two, we'll dive into the vision and framework for collaboration. centered on a noble purpose and five key behaviors. What are these behaviors? How can we practice them? And why is collaboration so challenging today?

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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That means there are a lot of issues in the workplace today. What are those problems? As you see them,

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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In the last 30 minutes, Edward and Frasier went down the memory lane and reflected on their own collaborative journey. It began 10 years ago at Disley. They turned a positive work relationship into a sustainable personal friendship that has now grown into a business partnership and co-authoring collaboration on a book about collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

1954.344

in tomorrow's episode, part two, will dive into the vision and framework for collaboration centered on a noble purpose and five key behaviors. What are these behaviors? How can we practice them? And why is collaboration so challenging today? I assure you, the methodology isn't just an other software solution. It's far more human-centric than what we're used to seeing.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

2005.272

Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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I assure you, the method isn't just another software solution. is far more human-centered than what we're used to seeing. Let's start collaborating. Good morning, Edward and Tricia. Welcome to my show.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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Yes, I'm happy to be here. We always start with a self-introduction. But today's episode is extra special because for the first time ever, I have not one, but two guests joining me. A unique moment for the show. Let's kick things off, Edward and Tricia, whichever one of you would like to go first. Share a bit about yourselves and your personal journey.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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Then we'll go into how the two of you came together to collaborate. After all, collaboration is the key theme of today's episode. So let's hear your individual stories and then we'll get into how your paths crossed and what makes this collaboration so impactful.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

42.739

Keep up with business connections and personal relationships because you never know when that connection or person could become your collaborator, business partner, or referral to a great opportunity. That's how I landed five job offers within three months after leaving a role that led to mental depression years ago. Today, though, it's so easy to burn and build bridges.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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So you both met in Disley, right? I'd love to hear more about that first experience working together. Let's dive into the details. Edward, let's start with you. How did you feel when you first met Tricia? And how did this collaboration unfold from your perspective? And then, Trish here, we would love to hear your side of the story as well.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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I think it will be really interesting to explore both viewpoints.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

84.836

You can add a friend in quotation in one second. and just as easily delete them. This user-friendly, in quotation, UI UX experience has seeped into our modern mindset, making it effortless to kick people out of our own circles or lives. But without sustainable connections, How can we collaborate, build stronger teams, and create outcomes that benefit everyone?

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

859.376

Wow, 10 years ago, that's a long time. So after that first encounter at Disley, how did the working relationship evolve? Was it more day-to-day interaction? Or maybe project-based, on and off? Did you face any moments of confrontation or was it mostly collaborative? I'd like to hear how both of you describe the experience after that initial meeting.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Yeah, especially in Japan. Yes.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Now, for the last question. Japan is famous for many things, many good things. Yet one of them is its aging population. That's a major factor when it comes to career changes, risk-taking, and mindset shifts. At the same time, recruiters are actively searching for talent. There's a demand, but with an aging workforce, how does that dynamic play out in Japan's recruitment market today?

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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What are you seeing firsthand? How is this shaping hiring trends and opportunities?

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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So now you are a coach in addition to being a headhunter.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Right.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into career transformation with Gary Berman.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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That's the end on this two-part series with Gary Berman. We've broken down the seven rules of career clarity and tackled the realities of Japan's talent market, where experienced professionals face ageism and companies struggle to adapt to change. The hiring landscape isn't evolving fast enough But that doesn't mean you have to stay stuck.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Carissa says it's no longer about following the old playbook. It's about rewriting your own. When change is the law of life, make your own law of change.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Yeah, like I said, a lot of us are conditioned by our environment. By the way, I studied accounting as my first major. So naturally, I became a CPA, Certified Public Accountant. But the truth is, I didn't enjoy the world. So I left the practice. We all start off following a certain path, whether it's because of societal expectations, family pressure, or financial goals.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Not necessarily chasing success, but just meeting financial responsibilities, supporting a family, paying a mortgage, keeping life stable. And over time, it's easy to just stay in that job. I mean, if you're making six or even seven figures, it's a really, really good income. And for some people, the more they earn, the harder it becomes to leave. The comfort zone gets too comfortable.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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So even when they start thinking about change, actually making a move feels almost impossible.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Tell us more about your seven rules of career clarity. Give us the full framework. How do these seven rules, seven steps, help people find real and sustainable clarity for their decision and direction in life?

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Gary is a recruiter, career coach, and Japan talent market expert who has spent 25 years helping professionals navigate change. But his own journey wasn't a straight line. Gary hitchhiked across North America, dropped out of college two times, built a global business, and burned out before finally finding his true calling.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Career isn't really a science or an art that you can formally study. Because, let's be honest, professors and researchers don't even change jobs themselves. Why would they study something like career change? If you try searching for academic papers on the subject, you won't find much. But what does exist is a wealth of skills, wisdom on managing, developing, and navigating careers.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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And these skills don't just come from career studies. They pull from leadership, economics, psychology, finance, and other areas of social science. Some of these insights are research-driven, some are teachable, and of course, they can be learned with the right guidance. That's why I see career intelligence

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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which is understanding how to adapt and make strategic career moves becoming more and more relevant. It's also one of the reasons I started this podcast show in the very first place because most of us weren't taught how to navigate career change. especially not in a world where uncertainty is now the norm, not the exception.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Gary, I remember you once mentioned that Japan is the hottest recruitment market in the world. Are you referring to recruiters trying to hire the best talent? Or are you talking about job applicants and career opportunities? What exactly makes Japan's recruitment market so competitive? I'd love to paint your brain on this.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Mm, yep.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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In this two-part series, we'll explore how he discovered his passion for coaching, the seven rules of career clarity, and the harsh realities of Japan's talent market, including ageism and the fear of change. Whether you're rethinking your career, hiring talent, or just wondering what's next, this series will change the way you see work. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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It all comes down to mindset, not just technology. Sure, you can use LinkedIn or other platforms to identify and reach out to talent. But at the end of the day, especially in Asia, there is a very strong cultural layer that technology alone cannot bridge. As someone who's also Asian, I understand that certain values like trust, stability, and loyalty play a huge role in career decisions.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Even if technology helps find the right person, it is the human connections that actually convince them to make a move. And that's where foreign firms often struggle They don't always grasp the nuances of why candidates hesitate, why they stay in their comfort zones, or how deep cultural values influence career decisions. That's where you come in. You are the bridge between recruiters and talent.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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From what I see, you're not just matching jobs with candidates. You're hand-holding both sides and guiding them through the process. And it makes sense because you are naturally good at connecting with people, understanding different perspectives, and communicating across cultures.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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What made you decide to return to recruiting? And how do you want it to be different this time?

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Now, you've just brought up the final question of the day. Job seekers, whether they like it or not, have to navigate an AI-driven recruitment market. Personally, I still believe in the creativity, the human creativity you mentioned. as well as the human elements that make someone stand out as a desirable candidate.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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But not every recruiter is like you, and not every firm has policies and approaches like yours. So if you could give advice to job seekers, regardless of age or culture, what would it be? especially for those in their late 40s, 50s, or even 60s, who might have been in one industry for a long time, but whose skills and experiences could be applicable across different sectors.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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For candidates seeking changes and new opportunities, how can they position themselves better and stronger for this new norm?

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Absolutely. That is reciprocity, the core essence of building relationships, every kind of relationship. Holly, thank you so much for not only your time, but your honest sharing. A lot of quotes I can create from your interview. So much information, really valuable information. Thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Wow, this is truly amazing to get this kind of feedback from a guest on the spot during the show. I'm very, very grateful, Holly. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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In the last episode, part one, we heard Holly's story of being a mother of two and taking 17 years to earn her college degree, all while starting and building a successful fitness franchise business. Now in part two, Holly will share with us why she decided to re-enter the recruitment industry. This time, she is the boss heading up a headhunting business.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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She will tell us about her human-first approach to serving not only her corporate clients, but also the candidates themselves. She will also offer valuable down-to-earth advice to job seekers. Holly, you've come full circle. You started as a recruiter, went through numerous transformations and challenges, and now you're back in recruiting. This time though, you're doing it your way.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Wow. Based on what you just said, it sounds like I could be a perfect headhunter myself. Though, I have to admit, I haven't had any pleasant experiences with headhunters in my life so far.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Are you looking for a job? We can surely talk about this offline. Aside from that, I believe a host, a headhunter, and a CEO are no different. We have a certain kind of superpower in seeing the potential in a person before they see it themselves or believe in it themselves. Don't you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Just a few weeks ago, I released an episode where I talked to a good friend of mine, Mary Shea, who is now partnering with an AI-driven HR tech company. They help corporate recruiters and executive search firms locate desirable candidates, not just for transactional positions, but also for unique senior opportunities. In that interview, Mary explained how the technology works.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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I also shared my experience at age of 51, having job interview with some corporate recruiters that felt completely dehumanized. We discussed how AI might make the experience more personalized for experienced workers. Anyone interested can check out episode four in season two. But back to you, Holly, you're very much a people person, human-centric in your view.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Not to ask you to be at Oracle, but I would like to know in your opinion, how might AI technology add value to your process of searching for the right candidates? On top of that, what do you think is the competitive advantage of you as a human recruiter that AI cannot replace?

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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How did they help propel you forward and sustain you all the way to the finish line?

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is our first ever from Canada, Holly Bond. I used to live in Calgary, Alberta and Toronto, Ontario in Canada.

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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She has mastered turning change to her advantage, making her a natural fit for my show. After two months of emails back and forth, I finally convinced her to come on board. We did a 70-minute interview, which I've decided to break down into two parts.

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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In part one, this episode, we'll hear Holly's story of being a mother of two and taking 17 years to earn her college degree, all while starting and building a fitness business that turned into a successful franchise. In part two, Holly will share why she entered the headhunting business and her human-first approach to serving not only her corporate clients, but also the candidates themselves.

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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As you describe your experience, It sounds almost magical. You landed that TV interview and the next day you received over a hundred emails. Now, while that's absolutely amazing, I'm really curious about the flip side. Looking back, what was the most challenging moment for you along this journey?

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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In this part one of our interview, you just heard Holly's story of being a mother of two and taking 17 years to earn her college degree, all while starting and building a fitness business that turned into a successful franchise.

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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In the next episode, the part two of our interview, Holly will share why she entered the headhunting business and her human first approach to serving not only her corporate clients, but also the candidates themselves. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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Talking to Holly really brings back memories of my adolescence and college days in Canada. Holly is special in my eyes. Why? She's now the president of a head hunting firm I'll be honest, in my career so far, I haven't worked well with headhunters. I've mostly landed jobs through networking. But something on Holly's LinkedIn profile and her company's website caught my eye.

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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Today, we all talk about purpose and making an impact. But when you were younger, in the 80s and 90s, it was all about making money and raising a family. You know, the American dream or in your case, the Canadian dream, owning a house and all that. Looking back at your career, have you identified any particular drivers or motivations behind every move you've made so far?

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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It said, we are a talent management and development firm with unshakable belief that change is a good thing. I was skeptical at first. It could just be empty words. But then I dug deeper and discovered that Holly had built a very successful franchise business from the ground up before moving into the headhunting business. From that moment, I knew Holly truly believes that change is a good thing.

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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You must be really proud of yourself, of what you've achieved with Bulldog Interactive Fitness. Can you share with us the humble beginnings of starting this business? I remember you mentioned that it all began with the idea of a gym. Tell us about your journey, not just the successes, but also the ups and downs, the challenges. More importantly, how did you learn from those challenges?

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest, Raelle West, is the kind of person you meet and immediately think, wow, she has lived such a full life.

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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You've reached a point where traditionally you could retire stop working, travel around the world, dive into hobbies. But the concept of retirement has changed. In today's world, it's not always about stepping away completely. I'm curious, what's your personal take on retirement? Would you consider retiring in the conventional sense? Or do you have a different vision for this stage of life?

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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You and I have the longest time difference, 17 hours. Thank you for coming on board.

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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The idea of retirement is evolving rapidly. is no longer about just stopping work and living off savings or pensions. Financial independence now means people have choices whether to keep working, pivot into a passion project, or even take breaks to recharge and come back stronger. From your perspective, with financial freedom at your disposal, how do you view retirement?

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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When you think about this for the border population, how do you see the concept shifting? If we put on the Futurist hats, where do you think retirement is headed in the next decade or two? I'd love to hear your vision for how this concept may evolve.

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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Time difference reflects distance. So far, among all my guests, you are the most distant one. The very first guest from Alaska I've never visited Alaska. The closest I've been was a transit stop when flying from Asia to Toronto, Canada. But now I finally have the chance to connect with someone from Alaska. I'm so excited to learn more. Let's get started with your story.

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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Walk us through your career journey, your history, the major transitions, and the key moments of evolution. Then we explore different elements in our conversation.

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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You mentioned you grew up in an entrepreneurial family. Yes. So that vibe, the mindset of building and creating was part of your education from an early age. Then in your 20s, you stepped into the game yourself, starting your own ventures. You've been involved in various businesses since. I'm curious. How do you decide which area to focus on?

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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Is it a lot of strategic calculation, following trends, gut feeling, or just going where the money is? What's your thought process when choosing a business to start or invest in? And what lessons have you learned along the way?

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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Over 40 years as an entrepreneur, her story is full of twists and turns. In her mid-20s, she took a leap and started her first business. That was just the beginning. For 25 years, she and her husband ran a charted air surface between Alaska and Hawaii, flying wide-body jets. Eventually, they soldered to Alaska Airlines, a huge milestone, but not the end of her journey.

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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I see you as a fairly successful self-made business person. someone who has steadily built wealth over time with discipline while spotting opportunities along the way, how would you describe your approach? In your own words, what kind of business person are you?

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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In your entrepreneurial journey as a woman, have you faced challenges that might differ from those faced by men in similar positions? I ask because even today, in a tech-driven world, it is well known that women, regardless of age, still face unique hurdles. For instance, female tech founders struggle with raising money as easily or in the same amount as their male counterparts.

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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Reflecting on your experience across the different businesses you've built and run, what were some of the key challenges you've encountered as a woman business leader And now, as a coach, how do you guide younger women to navigate and overcome similar challenges, learning from what you faced and learned?

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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She has owned small cruise ships, invested in real estate, and kept building. And now she's helping other women entrepreneurs figure out the same thing she did, how to run a business and have a life with sustainability. Her story is real and packed with lessons for anyone chasing big dreams. Let's dive in. Well, good afternoon. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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How do you guide people in building the kind of system from growing up? Specifically, how do you teach them to lay the foundation, develop the structure, and ensure is resilient enough to grow and thrive before they can step back and enjoy the fruit of their labor?

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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What advice or encouragement would you offer to help them take that next step towards doing better, especially after listening to this episode?

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm talking to Athena Bronson, a real estate agent from Denver, Colorado. Nope, we are not talking about real estate.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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One thing I add to that is when you are practicing this mindset shift process, and making those small changes or steps forward. Make it visible. Grab an actual notebook, not on the computer, but a real paper notebook and pen or even a board you can put up on the wall. Write down each small win. check it off and create a visual reminder that says, I did it.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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That simple action of writing, seeing those check marks and having a visual cue of your progress can really inform that sense of accomplishment. I think is a powerful way to feel and see your growth over time.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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100%.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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Jodie Foster once said, all you need to make a movie is pen, paper, and confidence. Despite her success as an actor, she didn't step into directing until later in her career, initially thinking she needed to master every technical detail. But as she shared in her masterclass, she realized that those three essentials, pen, paper, and confidence, were all she needed to start.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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In part one, Athena shares her experience with Lyme disease, a condition that remains poorly understood but has profoundly impacted her health. She'll talk about how she caught it, what she's endured, and the fight to survive. Today in part two, Asina will share how she not only survived, but found ways to thrive, rebuild her support system, and grow her career once again.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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It's such a powerful reminder how simplicity and self-belief can be the true foundation for creating something meaningful. and sustainable. That is beautiful. Of course, I know all the scripts were crafted by a copywriter, but it felt so authentic. I believe she was speaking directly from her heart and her experience. It's so powerful.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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So I'll leave you with that and share it with my listeners too. Pen, paper, that's power in them. A journal as well, by the way. And of course, a bit of confidence. Thank you so much, Athena.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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I really resonate with what you said about being our biggest advocate, especially in tough times. We hear a lot about IQ and EQ, emotional quotient, emotional intelligence. But there's another measure, adversity quotient or IQ, which seems less talked about yet. So crucial. I think we are all starting to see how important it really is. Your experience is a powerful example of this.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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Physical pain is intense and medications might help here and there. maybe make sleep easier. But that's only part of it. It's the mental resilience that really keeps us going, especially in those moments when you are alone, in pain, facing it all. What stands out from what you've just shared is how you found ways to mentally change your focus even on the small things, to help you stay grounded.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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It seems like that's been your best defense and maybe even your offense.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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You've talked about how you help yourself normalize the situation so that life and work could go on. You kept earning, kept things moving, especially with those high medical costs. Even with insurance, it still adds up. But beyond that, you mentioned the importance of building a support system with mentors, coaches, and others, which I think is crucial.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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Can you share more about how you started building that from scratch and how you went about finding the right people, those who really became the perfect fit for your journey? Eventually, it seems like it grew into a really strong support system. One that not only provided you the help you needed, but also gave you a true sense of community.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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Instead, we dive into her extraordinary journey of resilience. At the peak of her real estate career, Feeling invincible and unstoppable, Athena's life took unexpected turn. Strange health issues appeared, and she was eventually diagnosed with Lyme disease, a condition that would change everything. For the past seven years,

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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You shared so much today about building a support system, rewiring your mindset, and finding ways to move forward is incredibly helpful. For those out there who might be in the middle of a live transition, just like you were, if you don't have a support system yet, there's still feelings stuck. And they are struggling with that rewiring process. What would you say to them?

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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Athena has lived in chronic pain, relying on plasma transfusions four days each month just to keep going. Her life has revolved around battling this disease, something she never imagined facing. As she says, if life didn't give us adversity and challenges. This story is too powerful and real for just one episode.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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So you were diagnosed around seven to eight years ago and you discovered through surgery rather than injury. You've also said dealing with chronic pain in a range of challenges. How has this disease affected your day-to-day life and work? I can only imagine how difficult it must be.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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To the extent that you are comfortable sharing, I'd love to hear about how you've managed and navigated these challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm talking to Athena Bronson, a real estate agent from Denver, Colorado. No, we are not talking about real estate.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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Today, in part one, Asena shares her experience with Lyme disease, a condition that remains poorly understood but has profoundly impacted her health. She'll talk about how she caught it, what she's endured, and the fight to survive. Tomorrow in part two, Asina will share how she not only survived, but found ways to thrive, rebuild her support system, and grow her career once again.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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I really resonate with what you said about being our biggest advocate, especially in tough times. We hear a lot about IQ and EQ, emotional quotient, emotional intelligence. But there's another measure, adversity quotient or AQ, which seems less talked about yet so crucial. I think we are all starting to see how important it really is. Your experience is a powerful example of this.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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Physical pain is intense and medications might help here and there. Maybe make sleep easier. But that's only part of it. It's the mental resilience that really keeps us going. Especially in those moments when you are alone, in pain, facing it all. What stands out from what you've just shared is how you found ways to mentally change your focus, even on the small things, to help you stay grounded.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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It seems like that's been your best defense and maybe even your offense.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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Just now, Alcina shared with us about how she caught Lyme disease, what she has endured, and her fight to survive. Tomorrow in Part 2, Asina will share more about how she not only survived but found ways to thrive actively to rebuild her support system and grow her career once again. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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Athena, welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. I know you're in Denver. Good afternoon to you.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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Instead, we dive into her extraordinary journey of resilience. At the peak of her real estate career, Feeling invincible and unstoppable, Athena's life took unexpected turn. Strange health issues appeared, and she was eventually diagnosed with Lyme disease, a condition that would change everything. For the past seven years,

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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That's so much. We can dive into here. Athena, can you share with us how old were you when you were first diagnosed?

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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You mentioned that this disease is rare and you were fortunate to find a doctor who understood it well. But for most of my listeners in the U.S. as well as internationally, this condition isn't widely known, meaning there's a lack of awareness, which could be risky. Could you enlighten us a bit more? What exactly is this disease and what should people know about it?

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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Athena has lived in chronic pain, relying on plasma transfusions four days each month just to keep going. Her life has revolved around battling this disease, something she never imagined facing. As she says, if life didn't give us adversity and challenges. This story is too powerful and real for just one episode.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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Those setbacks ended up leading to new insights, to new heights, knowing what I can and I cannot do, what I can accept, and what doesn't fit me at all. It helps me become laser-focused on what really works for me and what's worth pursuing. That clarity can be powerful, almost like a reckoning, and turn tough moments into real growth opportunities.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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So I love hearing about how career transitions shaped you. And you also mentioned that you've been through personal events, life events that brought an other layer of challenge and insight. Would you mind sharing more about those experiences?

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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Then in part two, airing tomorrow, she'll share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created and how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our careers. Good afternoon, Erica. Welcome to our show.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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Just now, Erica shared her career journey, the twists, the turns, and the accident that changed everything. Tomorrow in part two, she will share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter, shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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and tell us how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our career. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Thank you so much, friends. I'm delighted to be here. Erica is also a podcast host, and she covers careers. So does that make us competitors? I don't think so. I see it more like we are part of this big circle, a world where so many people are focused on their future, their life, and their career.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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I think we are both contributing to something bigger by sharing insights, lessons, and experiences in a human, direct way. Hopefully this helps someone get inspired or maybe even get unstuck. So Erica, let's start with you. Tell us a bit about yourself, your story and your experience before we drill down into your insights.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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Transitions, there's so many kinds. We often think of transition as just changing jobs, but it's more than that. It's not just jumping from Google to Microsoft in the same industry. Sometimes it's moving to a totally different industry or even changing countries, cities, and life itself. Erica, in your journey so far,

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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If I were to ask about how you've navigated and managed your own transitions, could you share a couple of stories, maybe one related to your own career and one to your personal life? I think it would give us a deeper understanding of your experience and why you are so well-equipped you help others through the career equation which you created?

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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But what makes Erica's story unique is her remarkable journey of resilience, purpose, and transformation. In 2022, a life-changing accident left her paralyzed. Facing months of recovery through immense pain and uncertainty, Erica fought her way back. Back to walking? Back to work? and back to a renewed mission.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm speaking with Erica Sosna, a fellow podcast host and the author of The Career Equation, who, like me, is passionate about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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I totally relate to your story. Before I launched this podcast, I also faced setbacks and failures. That took a lot of reflection to walk through. Like you said, it was devastating when it happened. But once I worked through those feelings, it became an opportunity to look inward, to be honest with yourself, and eventually grow out of it.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

98.496

After a year away from her consultancy, Erica returned with fresh purpose, balancing her career on a three-day work week, launching the podcast, and expanding her reach to create a bigger impact. Today, part one, Erica shares her career journey, the twist and the turns and the accident that changed everything.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

1010.447

So you're saying that these micro drama series are essentially a volume-driven strategy by tech companies. They invest in creating content such as hiring writers to craft stories and shooting short series. The initial episodes are free, drawing in viewers, and once the audience is hooked, they introduce a paywall starting around episode 11.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

1046.608

It sounds like a clever subscription model, and I imagine they also monetize through advertisements. Your industry, in the Chinese context, is people-focused and people-driven. Engaging with so many different parties is essential to getting things done, but in the U.S., for example,

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

1070.879

With the launch of OpenAI and other AI-driven tech companies, industries like media, news, and Hollywood have felt significant ripple effects. We've seen things like strikes in Hollywood over concerns about job losses, with AI potentially replacing roles like scriptwriters, producers, and others in the production process. What about China? AI is a hot topic there.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

1107.964

In your industry, have you seen AI being integrated yet? Or maybe it's already causing some tension. or discussions about its potential impact?

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

1183.968

Speaking of AI versus human, I have to bring up your book, Light of Story. It's in Chinese, not yet available in English, but it's more than a guide on how to tell stories in TV and film. It's also about using stories to create both commercial and social impact. One phrase from the book really stood out to me.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

120.105

Jin has written books, scripts, and produced both movies and TV series. How did she achieve all this? And more importantly, why? It all started with a simple childhood dream. which is a love for TV series. That passion transformed into a devoted career. Let's listen to the story of a storyteller.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

1215.782

Translated into English, it says, human nature remains unchanged, but people's hearts are changing. That feels so true and philosophical, perhaps influenced by your sociology background. So given your understanding of the past and the future of the entertainment industry in China, what are some of your future plans? for your company?

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In today's episode, I'm thrilled to interview Jing Zhao, a TV and filmmaker from China.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

1392.192

Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

414.78

Despite your passion for TV series, how did you build your track record? How did you grow your network in the entertainment industry and eventually launch your first TV series?

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

50.755

Filmmaking is a multi-billion dollar industry that thrives on the art and business of storytelling. and for sure that shares stories from characters all around the world, how could I not feature someone who has mastered the craft of telling profitable stories? Jean's journey is nothing short of remarkable. From a small town girl to a sociology major,

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

548.153

From your experience, how did you overcome this challenge to take that crucial first step? How did you gain recognition early on so as to build momentum and eventually move up and accelerate your career?

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

761.264

From what I've gathered, there's no such thing as pure luck or magic behind success. In today's social media-driven world, weird people make overnight success seem real. But the truth is, every success story is built on a lot of groundwork. You shared how writing a book became a learning journey for you.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

789.209

Similarly, it's about getting closer to the right circles, meeting relevant people, learning from them, letting them get to know you, and fostering relationships. That's how opportunities start to align with your interests. Even if the first step is more like taking an unpaid job, it gets you in the door and builds momentum.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

814.121

But I remember you mentioning that when you decided to leave your previous job to pursue your passion for TV, the industry wasn't exactly booming. It was already facing challenges. And then COVID hit, making things even harder. Yet you still took that leap, perhaps partly for educational purposes.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

838.396

So I'm curious, what was the state of the TV industry in China when you decided to make that transition? How did the pandemic reshape things?

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

84.955

She later transitioned into accounting and even moved to the U.S. to work as an accountant. But that wasn't the end. She went deeper into the business world, earning an MBA from Chicago Bull. Another bull privet took her into venture capital and then back to China. where she built her network and credentials from scratch in the entertainment industry.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

924.97

So you were saying there was a flood of hot money, short-term, speculative, opportunistic investment driving the entertainment industry 10 years ago. Then came the rise of social media and the internet, which opened the floodgates to content of all kinds. With that surge, naturally, came a lot of junk, low quality, and poorly produced material that overwhelmed the industry.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

962.81

You mentioned something interesting, micro drama series. This format seems to have gained traction in China. What exactly is a micro-drama series in a Chinese context? How does it differ from traditional format? And what's driving its popularity?

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

105.725

From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

12.614

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

1259.679

Let me share with you one live example, which is this podcast show. When I first started, it was a weekly show, one episode per week on average. Now, seven episodes one week, which means it has become a daily show, one episode per day, Then some people joke with me. Hey, Vince, are you using AI for all of this? And my answer is simple.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

1296.339

There's no tool out there right now that can holistically handle the entire process of creating seven episodes a week. Sure, I use ChatGPT to check grammar or refine some copywriting when I need a bit of inspiration. But beyond that, everything else is on me.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

1324.42

I invite every guest personally, schedule pre-calls, talk with them for at least 30 minutes before actual recording, send follow-up emails, handle all the nitty-gritty details, and of course, host the show myself. This voice you hear, that's all human. Beyond editing every single piece, I do it myself, with the soundtrack.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

1352.304

I know there's so-called AI-driven tools that claim to pick segments for audiograms or do the heavy lifting. But honestly, I do it manually. I'm so immersed in each conversation that I know exactly which moments stand out and deserve to be highlighted.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

1374.654

is a lot of human touch a lot of my personal footprint my single print in every part of the process and that's what creates the final product looking ahead i think the strategy for individuals whether in work or life has to involve finding the balance

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

1400.615

Along the way, we need to decide which parts of the process need more human touch, where monitoring, intuition, and judgment are essential, and then identify which parts can be standardized or delegated to AI to work faster, with more precision, and on a larger scale. That's what I see as a way forward, creating your own strategy for division of labor between the human and the machine.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

142.065

And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up. This one is a ride.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

1532.282

Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

193.888

I kind of agree or disagree with what you just said. Lifelong learning is about the attitude, in my opinion. Lifelong learning isn't just about acquiring new knowledge. It's about figuring out how you learn best. Some people thrive in classroom settings or in-person workshops, while others prefer self-paced digital formats.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

228.848

The methods vary, but the goal is the same, which is to keep growing, to keep learning. When it comes to skill stacking, I see it as something deeper. You mentioned it's about purposefully merging diverse skills to solve complex challenges, and I think you're right. What's often missing isn't the means to learn, We have more access than ever to tools, training, and knowledge.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

263.318

The gap lies in connecting the dots between those skills and leveraging them in meaningful ways to multiply the impact. In my view, we are living in a tool economy, tool, T-O-O-L. Everything is about the tool. whether it's check GPT today, Google yesterday, or whatever the next hot thing will be. The mindset is, if you have a problem, there's a tool for that. Need a solution?

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

299.427

Just grab a hammer, a screwdriver. What is the problem? Most of the time, those tools are just solving service-level symptoms. not addressing the deeper underlying issues. It's like putting a band-aid on a cut without treating the infection. Sure, the immediate problem looks solved, but the root cause persists, and people end up repeating the same mistakes.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

335.627

I see this pattern a lot, especially among knowledge workers. They buy into the idea of lifelong learning, sign up for courses, pay for certifications, and stack up all these skills. But they don't actually go anywhere with them. Why? Because the key isn't just acquiring skills, it's in connecting them, applying them to real-life scenarios, case by case, and solving problems with them.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

371.081

in an integrated manner. So the missing piece is less about technical skills and more about human skills, what most people call solved skills. Problem solving, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, communication, these are the connective tissue that make skill stacking impactful. Without them, you're just collecting tools in a toolbox. You don't know how to use effectively.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

404.007

That's where I think the future of lifelong learning needs to focus. Not just teaching new skills, but on helping people build the connections between them and apply them in meaningful, impactful ways. It's not about the tools themselves. It's about what you build with them.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

45.869

In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

624.369

So you've been diving deep into AI lately. As someone with a strong background in change management and leadership, how do you see this technology shaping the future of change management and skills decking? What's your vision for where we're headed?

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

75.434

From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

870.643

Destruction and wastage. It's just noise.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

876.447

One thing that many people agree on, but I don't think they are fully figured out yet, It's the importance of human skills in an AI-driven world. I like to call it human intelligence. In fact, that's the essence of this podcast. My goal is to elevate human intelligence by uniting global voices like yours. For me, human intelligence is about being experience-driven,

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

914.346

time-tested and grounded in real-life skills. It's about tapping into hindsight, insight, and foresight, exactly like the wisdom you shared over the past hour. And while we talk about human intelligence being crucial in the AI era, I think that's exactly what we are lacking.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

941.633

With all these tools, social media platforms, and tech innovations, people aren't developing essential skills like communication, which is at the core of human intelligence. So my question to you is this, human skills are critical, but how do we bring them back How do we nurture and develop these skills as we move forward?

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

106.34

From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

12.577

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1401.313

I kind of agree or disagree with what you just said. Lifelong learning is about the attitude in my opinion. Lifelong learning isn't just about acquiring new knowledge. It's about figuring out how you learn best. Some people thrive in classroom settings or in-person workshops, while others prefer self-paced digital formats.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

142.659

And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up. This one is a ride. Like you said, one of the threats running through your experience is change and strategy. You've worked with so many firms and organizations, guiding them through their transformations, so you must have seen countless business cases unfold.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1436.287

The methods vary, but the goal is the same, which is to keep growing, to keep learning. When it comes to skill stacking, I see it as something deeper. What you mentioned is about purposefully merging diverse skills to solve complex challenges, and I think you're right. What's often missing isn't the means to learn. We have more access than ever to tools, training, and knowledge.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1470.745

The gap lies in connecting the dots between those skills and leveraging them in meaningful ways to multiply the impact. In my view, we are living in a tool economy, tool, T-O-O-L. Everything is about the tool, whether it's ChatGPT today, Google yesterday, or whatever the next hot thing will be. The mindset is, if you have a problem, there's a tool for that. Need a solution?

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1506.838

Just grab a hammer, a screwdriver. What is the problem? Most of the time, those tools are just solving service-level symptoms, not addressing the deeper underlying issues. It is like putting a band-aid on a cut without treating the infection. Sure, the immediate problem looks solved, but the root cause persists, and people end up repeating the same mistakes.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1543.052

I see this pattern a lot, especially among knowledge workers. They buy into the idea of lifelong learning, sign up for courses, pay for certifications, and stack up all these skills. But they don't actually go anywhere with them. Why? Because the key isn't just acquiring skills, it's in connecting them, applying them to real-life scenarios, case by case, and solving problems with them.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1578.504

in an integrated manner. So the missing piece is less about technical skills and more about human skills, what most people call solved skills. Problem solving, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, communication, these are the connective tissue that make skills stacking impactful. Without them, you're just collecting tools in a toolbox. You don't know how to use effectively.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1611.43

That's where I think the future of lifelong learning needs to focus. Not just teaching new skills, but on helping people build the connections between them and apply them in meaningful, impactful ways. It's not about the tools themselves. It's about what you build with them.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1837.841

Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

189.215

What have you learned from these consulting projects and organization change initiatives that could apply to individual situations? Are there lessons from these business cases that also resonate on a personal level, especially when we face dilemmas or crossroads in our own lives?

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

46.486

In Part 1, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries, seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

623.385

I can totally relate to your Canadian example. I've had a similar experience myself. We can chat more about it offline. But eventually, it led to me leaving that company. If I think about it in a more personal context, like within a family, change isn't just about one person. It's a group decision that can lead to challenges too. For example,

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

655.745

When I used to help younger professionals plan their MBA career paths, many of them would ask me, Vince, should I apply to this school or that school? Should I study in this city or another city? Often, these decisions weren't just about them. They were married, so the decision had to include the spouse. My answer to them was, this isn't just about you. What does your husband or wife think?

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

690.845

Have you discussed whether it will mean long distance for two years? Will they move with you? If they do, will they be able to work? If not, what happens then? That's where the tension often starts. One partner wants to change, but the other doesn't, or they see the change differently. It creates conflict, and that's not unlike what happens in a business setting.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

722.112

One stakeholder might push for a big transformation, while others hesitate or resist because the interpretation of change is different. So yes, I think that dynamic applies across contexts, personal or professional.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

76.048

From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

866.225

Actually, you have so many degrees that people often ask me, Vince, are you collecting degrees? I usually laugh it off and say, no, I have three, and I talk each one very seriously. I don't even bother explaining why I pursued two MBAs anymore. But looking at you, Colin, you have even more. Would you consider yourself a lifelong learner? I imagine you have some strong opinions on that term.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

901.892

A lot of people lean on lifelong learning when they are at the crossroads or want to make a change in their lives. They fall back on education, upskilling, retooling, whatever the buzzword of the day might be. But you've shared some interesting ideas with me about skill stacking and how that might offer a more impactful approach. So what do you think of lifelong learning as a concept?

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

938.828

How do you see it evolving? And where does skill stacking fit into the equation?

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

1020.355

Are there lessons from these business cases that also resonate on a personal level, especially when we face dilemmas or crossroads in our own lives?

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

106.269

From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skills decking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

12.594

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

1302.596

Yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

142.591

And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up. This one is a ride. Colin, finally! I got you to my show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Good morning to you.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

1602.901

Just now, Colin unpacked his unique perspective on change. Change addict turned change guru. From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shared how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In part two, tomorrow, we'll explore the learning required for transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

1642.81

Colin has, I don't even know how many degrees under his belt. Why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future. And part three for Friday will tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Come back tomorrow and join us. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard...

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

1683.376

Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

179.51

Colin is from Canada, the Big North, a very cold place. I used to live in Toronto myself. Colin is in another province, or in America, we call it a state. So Colin, let's start with your story. Who are you, what you're doing now, but also what did you do in the past? Your past, your journey, and your history.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

46.416

In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries. seven countries lived in, seven more secunded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

518.555

In your self-introduction... Two words caught my attention. Change addict and change guru. How do you define these two terms?

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

75.967

From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

802.654

So being a change addict, a guru, would you say you're one of those who puts in a good amount of calculation behind each change? Or is it more like, oh, it's just that feeling? What type are you? Have you ever thought about that?

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

988.747

Like you said, one of the threats running through your experience is change and strategy. You've worked with so many firms and organizations, guiding them through their transformations. So you must have seen countless business cases unfold. What have you learned from these consulting projects and organizational change initiatives that could apply to individual situations?

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

108.663

A leader cannot successfully drive organizational change without first mastering their own personal transformation. So we'll dive into why understanding the natural process of personal change can help you fast-track your transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

12.828

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

133.319

how to manage self-doubt, avoid sabotaging your own progress, and how to make career moves that truly work in your favor instead of simply running away from one undesirable situation to the next. Let's get started. Jennifer, tell us a bit about yourself. I know you've been in coaching for a long time. You specialize in coaching tech leaders manage and navigate change.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

1371.676

As you were sharing, it brought back some personal memories for me, both in terms of personal change and organizational change I experienced during my time in the corporate world.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

1386.937

You mentioned personal change, the do's and the don'ts, and I can see how those apply even to individuals making major transitions like leaving a corporate job to become an entrepreneur or starting a private practice, much like you did. Yes.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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As you mentioned the do's and don'ts in personal change, I can think of some specific examples like controlling your expenses while investing in your own new venture. It's important to generate hope, hold on to it, and get some quick wins. But what happens 12 or 18 months down the road? The process is challenging, especially when you're still building your practice. You are uncertain.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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And then you look at your friends, former classmates. They are getting promotions, landing new jobs as the big guys, the CEOs of big companies. And they seem to be doing so well. Meanwhile, you left a six-figure income to pursue something on your own, something unknown, something unproven, and you start questioning yourself. Self-doubt sneaks in, which can lead to what I call self-sabotage.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Could you share your thoughts on this situation? It's something I've personally experienced and struggled with. It's not easy. I love to hear how you help your clients navigate this, whether they're facing personal change or dealing with external changes that they're part of but can't fully control. Rationally, they may want to move forward, but emotionally is a different story.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Earlier, we talked about the natural personal process of change and touched on self-doubt and self-sabotage. In the next episode... We'll dive deeper into managing self-sabotage with the help of neuroscience and explore how to make career moves that truly work in your favor instead of just escaping one undesirable situation after another. Be sure to check back in the next 48 hours.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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The next episode will be ready for you. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Can you tell us more about that?

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Today, I'm sitting down with Jennifer Selby Long, who has spent the last 30 years helping tech leaders navigate the waves of tech evolution, leading and managing organizational change. In recent years, her focus has been on cybersecurity, digital transformation, and user experience. But don't tune out just yet. If you are not in those views,

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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So basically, you are helping a leader who sits at the center of a complex situation. They may have senior people above them, perhaps a CEO reporting to a board of directors, or they may be the CEO themselves. Below them, they have a whole team of people, some more senior, some at operational or junior level.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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This leader has to engage, convince, and motivate all these people to buy into the change and act on it. But each of these stakeholders has their own agenda. and that's not even touching on the emotional aspects involved.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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So you are helping this person in the middle, managing everyone around them while also guiding them on a more personal level, helping them find peace and balance while navigating change. Is that a good summary of what you do now?

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Technology is such a huge and evolving field. I'm sure when you first started back in the 90s, as you said, the project found you. And now here we are in 2024 going into 2025, so much has changed in the tech space over the years. Could you be more specific about what areas of leadership you focus on today?

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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And maybe educate us a bit on how this evolution in technology and leadership has played out over the years?

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Before we dive into your own experiences working with these leaders, sharing examples and stories, I'm curious, have you ever been coached yourself? Maybe through leadership training or personal coaching along the way? I'd love to hear about your experience as a learner, as a student being coached and how that experience has shaped or enhanced your abilities to help your clients today.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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What Jennifer shares is relevant to anyone looking to thrive in today's fast changing world. Give me 30 seconds and I guarantee you'll find something valuable in this conversation. This episode and the next is all about how to guide yourself through personal transformation and step into your next opportunity.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Great. Now let's explore your experience coaching others. You have a lot of depth. And one of the key topics we discussed was the process you call the natural personal process of change. Could you walk us through what that is, the do's, the don'ts, and some of the dangerous myths around it? And if it helps, give us examples, show us how it works in practice.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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I can see why the legal mindset resonates with you and me. It's such a perfect metaphor for building a life, a career, even a podcast that's uniquely mine. You're not just piecing together blocks. You're creating something with purpose, using elements that feel authentic to you.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Just like how each brick contributes to a structure, every experience, every skill, every choice you make adds to your bigger picture. And just like a true master builder, you are following your own playbook assembling a vision that's completely your own. Nina, I love how you've tied together all these elements, the successful timeline, the legal mindset, and the reverse resume.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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For anyone listening, whether you're facing a career transition, feeling stuck, and simply preparing for change, These tools can really help you navigate that journey. Thank you so much, Lena. Thank you for sharing your story and your wisdom.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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And instead of staying down, she jumped into technology, starting from scratch, and reinvented herself yet again. Yesterday, in part one of our conversation, we explored Nina's journey, her training, her trials, and her setbacks. Then today in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success. We are going beyond that. So let's begin this incredible journey with Nina. Absolutely. And I think that's a great point. For anyone listening, the takeaway here is to think outside the box when it comes to your skills and experience.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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We often limit ourselves to what we have always done or the industry we know, but those same skills can often apply in ways we wouldn't initially expect. In my own experience, A guest on the show, an executive recruiter, once told me I would meet a great executive recruiter myself. At first, I was surprised recruiting wasn't something I've ever considered.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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But she pointed out that my ability to support talent, connect with people, and bring the right voices onto the show demonstrated qualities that could be valuable in her industry. So, just like your own story, it's about being creative and open-minded when exploring new directions. Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to see what we are really capable of.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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So you've moved into technology, built a new version of yourself, and now you're out there as a solo entrepreneur, as an author, as a speaker. It's amazing to see how your career has evolved. As we're talking about transitions and career paths, resumes often come up. Traditionally, resume is seen as an advertisement, a highlight reel of achievements.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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But you introduced me to the concept of a reverse resume. Could you walk us through what that is and how it might help those who are considering a change or currently navigating a transition? I think it could be a powerful tool to help open up minds and see new possibilities.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Professional athletes. Today, I'm sitting down with Nina Sossaman Polk, a former professional gymnast who started her journey at about four years old and went on to join the US gymnastic team. In her own words, gymnastics is a perfect example of resilience. You literally fall down and get back up all day, every day, as you learn new skills.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Yes, this isn't just a single page. It's more like a notebook, something dynamic that we keep updating. It can serve us as a reminder, especially in those moments when we are feeling down, discouraged, or unsure. As entrepreneurs, there's always something happening, some challenge or setback. But when you can look back at your progress, it's a powerful reminder that you've overcome so much.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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It's just another bump in the road, not a showstopper. Just keep moving forward. Don't let it derail you.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Exactly. It's like you said, a mix of all your past achievements and challenges, marking different points in time, But the other side is blank, representing the future, open for you to shape. It's all about how you want to connect those dots and create your path forward.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Is that the successful timeline you mentioned to me before?

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Yes, exactly. That's the successful timeline, right? is a way to look at your life journey as a series of pivotal moments

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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That mindset became part of Nina's DNA, and it carried her through some incredible twists and turns. From the heartbreak of not making the Olympic team to leaving the sport for good after an injury, she faced one identity crisis after another. But she didn't stop there. Nina built a successful journalism career that spent 17 years only to be let go despite being a beloved news anchor.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. These days, we talk a lot about resilience. We can discuss the psychology of it all day long. But who actually walks the walk and talks the talk when it comes to resilience?

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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So each of us has to define our own successful timeline. Yes.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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But in their eyes, she isn't being productive, not even trying to do anything meaningful. It's not about making big money. It's about learning something, adding value, contributing in some way. But she seems to have taken the idea of not needing a traditional job to the extreme, believing that work itself isn't necessary for her generation.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Now, the reason I bring this up is because your book is titled, Employment is Dead. I understand what you mean by that. I don't misinterpret it. But I can see how some people might. They might take it at face value and think, Oh, we don't have to work anymore. We don't need offices, five-day work weeks, or even jobs at all. I don't think that's the message you're trying to send.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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So my last question to you is this. Do you really believe employment is dead? And more importantly, what is your true interpretation of that phrase? Whether someone watching this is 15, 25, 35, or 45, How do you want them to understand what you mean so the title doesn't get misinterpreted as something superficial?

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

In part one, we explore her incredible journey from shaping policy in Washington, D.C. to securing venture capital through a chance encounter at a Starbucks. She shares how risk-taking, adaptability, and breaking the old rules shaped her success. Then in part two, we tackle the future of employment. Why degrees aren't what they used to be? How AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs?

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Embrace life stage flexibility with purpose. We need to work. We need to contribute, put in the effort, and build our lives and careers. There are so many different ways to do that now. That's the message. In that sense, employment isn't dead. It's just evolving. The traditional model may be fading. but it's being reimagined in new and meaningful ways. Absolutely. Deborah, thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few days ago, we published a three-part series with George Dream, the co-author of the book, Employment is Dead. But we are not done yet.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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I really appreciate you taking the time for this conversation. And congratulations on the entire journey of putting this book together. If I make it to the U.S., I'll be sure to grab an autographed copy from both of you.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Of course. I'm not Bloomberg. I don't ask cookie-cutter questions. And that's a wrap on this two-part series with Deborah Perry Pistioni. We've torn apart outdated career playbooks, reimagined what work could be, and tackled how both workers and companies must evolve. The question now is, are you ready for what's next? Because the future of work isn't coming. It's already here.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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If you found this conversation valuable, share it, rate the show, and let's keep pushing these conversations forward. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

And what companies must do before it's too late? And of course, we'll answer the big question. Is employment really dead? Get ready for bold, eye-opening conversation. Let's jump in. I had the privilege of reading through the book before it was published. Now, I'll be honest, I skimmed through a lot of it. Certain chapters really stood out to me, especially the one on credentials.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Before starting my podcast, especially before COVID, I was deeply involved in the learning, education, technology space. I was speaking at conferences around the world on the future of work, including South by Southwest. So when you covered credentials, education and training, that chapter really caught my attention.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Now, looking at one of the quotes from that chapter, he wrote, Getting more employers to rethink their degree requirements will take hard work. Employees have grown up in a system where the four-year degree is the proxy, and that's a perception that is risky to do things differently. I completely agree. But the big question is, how do we actually change that mindset?

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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What's your take on making this shift happen?

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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If I'm hearing you correctly, and I say this aligns with my own perspective as well, some jobs still operate within a value system where having a degree is essential. Take, for example, a two-year MBA. When I was on a call with Josh, I told him, you and I are both beneficiaries of a formal brand name degree.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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I went to Harvard Business School, I went to Yale School of Management, and I even earned two MBAs myself. Now, I'm 51, turning 52 soon, which means I grew up in the 70s, in a world where the playbook was clear. Study hard, get a degree, work hard in a corporation, climb the ladder. That's success. That was the mainstream and proven belief at the time.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

We are doubling down on this conversation. Today, I've invited his co-author, Deborah Perry-Piccioni. an entrepreneur, Silicon Valley insider, and best-selling author of the book Secrets of Silicon Valley. Before diving into the world of startups, Debra spent 18 years in Washington, D.C., working in the White House, on Capitol Hill, and as a political commentator for MSNBC, Fox News, and CNN.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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And there was nothing inherently wrong with it because it worked in that era. But with the internet and new technologies, the world has changed. We're now exposed to so many more possibilities with different ways to achieve the same goal. if you want to earn a million dollars a year. There are multiple legitimate legal ways to do it.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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In the past, one clear path was joining Goldman Sachs, earning a solid salary plus bonuses. And if it was a good year, you would hit that million dollar mark or even more. And that's still a path that works for some people today. But does that mean going to Goldman Sachs is outdated or not trendy anymore? Not at all. It's still the perfect fit for certain individuals.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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The same goes for Google, any other top-tier company. It all comes down to finding the best fit for your needs, skills, interests, and strengths. I believe if technology can be open source, then career development can be open minded in the same way. In the end, technology is the enabler. It doesn't take how we succeed, but it empowers us to choose our own version of success.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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So far, we've talked a lot about what we as individuals can do, how we navigate our careers and lives in this new era. But for employers, it's a whole different challenge. In your book, you lay out a full transformation map. And when I saw it, I thought, wow, that's a lot a company can do.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Let's say I'm the CEO of a sizable company and you and George come to me and say, Vince, there's so many opportunities to rethink and transform your organization. My first reaction would be, great, but where do I start? What would you advise me to tackle first? What's the one thing I absolutely must focus on before everything else?

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

But everything changed when she moved to Silicon Valley. Instead of politics, power, and division, she discovered a culture built on collaboration, innovation, and risk-taking. That shift led her to build six companies, write multiple best-selling books, and now co-found the Work3 Institute, helping businesses navigate the future of work. We're featuring Debra in a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Great. Now, last question of the day. But before I ask, let me share a quick story. A friend of mine has a niece, 27 years old. She still hasn't graduated from college. She's been stuck in school, hasn't worked a single job, not even part-time, not volunteering, not freelancing, not investing, nothing. Her parents, who are middle class, fully support her.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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While the title is Employment is Dead, if I'm hearing you correctly, this book is really a message to employers, almost a wake-up call With all the new technologies happening, the traditional value chain of employment is being disrupted, whether companies like it or not. And if they don't adapt, they risk losing their best people, whether to solo partnership, competitors, or simply disengagement.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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Is that the core message you're trying to get across? And is this the primary audience you are speaking to?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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Sure. Now, I notice the book includes a story about how you and George met. Two people from different backgrounds who, according to the book, hadn't even met before. Yet somehow, this collaboration just clicked. From your perspective, what was the spark? What made you think, hey, this is someone I need to work with?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

In part one, we explore her incredible journey from shaping policy in Washington, D.C. to securing venture capital through a chance encounter at a Starbucks. She shares how risk-taking, adaptability, and breaking the old rules shaped her success. Then in part two, we tackle the future of employment. Why degrees aren't what they used to be? How AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few days ago, we published a three-part series with George Dream, the co-author of the book, Employment is Dead. But we are not done yet.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

1351.485

What does each of you bring to the table? I imagine there are similarities that made the collaboration work, but also key differences in your backgrounds and experiences that add unique perspectives. Can you share a bit about that, what you each contribute, and how those differences shape the work you're doing together as a partnership?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

1486.696

I had the privilege of reading through the book before it was published. Now, I'll be honest, I skimmed through a lot of it. Certain chapters really stood out to me, especially the one on credentials. Before starting my podcast, especially before COVID, I was deeply involved in the learning education technology space.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

1512.944

I was speaking at conferences around the world on the future of work, including South by Southwest. So when you covered credentials, education, and training, that chapter really caught my attention. Now, looking at one of the quotes from that chapter, he wrote, Getting more employers to rethink their degree requirements will take hard work.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

1539.829

Employees have grown up in a system where the four-year degree is the proxy, and that's a perception that is risky to do things differently. I completely agree. But the big question is, how do we actually change that mindset? What's your take on making this shift happen?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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That's a web for today. We've covered Deborah's incredible journey from DC politics to Silicon Valley startups. and why the old way of working just doesn't cut it anymore. But we're just getting started. In part two, we'll break down the real shift happening in the workforce, why college degrees are losing the grip, and how AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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and what companies must do before it's too late. Plus, we'll tackle the big question. Is employment really dead or just evolving? Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

And what companies must do before it's too late? And of course, we'll answer the big question. Is employment really dead? Get ready for bold, eye-opening conversation. Let's jump in. Good morning, Deborah. Welcome to our show. You are the first interview I conduct in the new year. Thank you so much for your time.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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You've had such an incredible journey from Washington DC politics to Silicon Valley startups, from entrepreneurship to authoring multiple books, building six companies, and now shaping the future of work. Looking back, do you see a common thread that ties all these transitions together?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

We are doubling down on this conversation. Today, I've invited his co-author, Deborah Perry-Piccioni. an entrepreneur, Silicon Valley insider, and best-selling author of the book Secrets of Silicon Valley. Before diving into the world of startups, Debra spent 18 years in Washington, D.C., working in the White House, on Capitol Hill, and as a political commentator for MSNBC, Fox News, and CNN.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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It sounds like you're someone who's highly observant, sensitive to your environment, and deeply aware of the trends around you. You mentioned your background in journalism, talking to all kinds of people, reading situations, and understanding patterns. That skill set seems to carry over into how you approach opportunities. You spot gaps, see what's missing, and then take action.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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Whether that's building something from scratch, teaming up with others, or investing in solutions that address those needs. So in a way, your entrepreneurial mindset isn't about business. It's about identifying what needs to be solved and turning that into action, a product, or even a business model. Would you say that's a fair summary?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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been involved in multiple ventures, which means you've experienced both the highs and the lows, the wins, the setbacks, and everything in between. Looking back, is there a particular failure or challenge that stands out? Something that, despite all your success, really tested you? Maybe at the time, it was frustrating or even painful.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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But in hindsight, it became a lesson you carry with you, something that shaped how you move forward. You've rebounded, you're stronger, you're energized. But is there a moment that, while tough, still holds deep meaning for you?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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You've been engaged in a lot of interesting endeavors. The current project is Work3 Institute, which you co-founded with George. Leading to this book, Employment is Dead. What was the motivation behind starting the institute? What was the driving force that led you to create it? I guess this goes back to the why. What inspired you to take this path?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

But everything changed when she moved to Silicon Valley. Instead of politics, power, and division, she discovered a culture built on collaboration, innovation, and risk-taking. That shift led her to build six companies, write multiple best-selling books, and now co-found the Work3 Institute, helping businesses navigate the future of work. We're featuring Debra in a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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One thing I want to add to that, when you talk about why there are 600 people reporting to you and why organizations have six layers of hierarchy, at the end of the day, all comes down to politics and power, and of course, money. More layers mean more justification for higher salaries at the top. That's just how economic incentives, power, and corporate structures work.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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But that's a whole other discussion, one that goes beyond technology, yet still shapes the way employment functions today. Even as the world changes, traditional employment structures are still deeply entrenched, especially for my generation. And even for yours, despite being younger, business schools and corporate environments still reinforce many of these same structures.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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Now, employment isn't disappearing, but its function, nature, and diversity are evolving. The depth and breadth of work are shifting, and that's where technology plays a huge role. So as a closing thought, Josh, you've been a strong advocate for integrating and merging technologies into the workplace. What do you see as the consequences for employers who don't adapt?

Chief Change Officer

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For those who aren't paying attention, who aren't taking steps to evolve how they manage, recruit and lead, what risks do they face? I'd love to hear your take as the final message to the world on this show.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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and certain chapters really caught my attention, especially the ones on talent, skills, credentials, and degrees. You and I, you are from Harvard, I'm from Yale, are both beneficiaries of brand name degrees. In the traditional playbook, that gave us a clear advantage in securing opportunities but with emerging technologies, are degrees becoming less and less relevant and useful?

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

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One thing I want to add, I am Gen X. That's the generation between baby boomers and millennials. Older than Gen Z, but still young and energetic. We are the first who transitioned from an analog world to a digital world. I remember learning how to use a calculator, then moving on to Lotus before Microsoft Excel even existed. When I was at Yale for business school, Google was just becoming a thing.

Chief Change Officer

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I'm 51 now, turning 52 in a week. So I've experienced firsthand how technology has evolved, and so have many in my generation. And that brings me to your point about organizations, not just surviving, but thriving. We are in a time where the workforce is more intergenerational than ever. different age groups, different levels of exposure to technology. Some grew up with it.

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Others had to adapt along the way. The question is, how do we make the most of this? How do we create a more inclusive environment that maximizes talent, skills, and purpose? Because in the end, that's what drives business results. That's what fuels performance.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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And for organizations that don't embrace this shift, if they stay rigid, resistant, or unwilling to evolve, they are setting themselves up for negative consequences. So that's my advice. Stay open, stay flexible, and recognize that the workforce is changing because those who don't will be left behind.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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Thank you. And that's a wrap on this series. We've torn down outdated employment models, explored the rise of Web3 and AI, and tackled how businesses must evolve to keep up. The question now is, will companies adapt or get left behind? The future of work isn't coming. It's already here. If you're ready to stay ahead, Now is the time to act. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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If you like what you heard, don't forget subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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In your book, you talk about how employers still claim to degree requirements. It's a tough mindset to break. As someone who has benefited from a prestigious degree, just like I have, what's your take? Do degrees still matter? Or is it time for a new way of thinking, working, and doing?

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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Most of them came from ordinary backgrounds, no special connections or privileges. And honestly, I was in the same boat. I went to Yale on a scholarship. Now, when people ask me, is an MBA still relevant? I get it. There's a lot of debate, just like with degrees in general. It's about connections, networks, and the brand name of these two-year MBA or law school programs.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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And yes, these programs accelerate learning, especially the soft skills or life skills like communication, critical thinking, and relationship building. But beyond that, the real value is in the people you meet and the deep connections you build over those two years. That's something you can't just replicate by networking on LinkedIn or signing up for an online course.

Chief Change Officer

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It's a different kind of experience. That said, if your goal is purely to learn, some skills. There are so many ways to do that now, many of them more affordable and accessible. I've personally taken online certificates and courses to upskill, building on a traditional education background. Now, going back to your book and the discussion on degree requirements.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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Employers, some of them, are starting to look beyond just degrees. They are using other signals to assess skills and knowledge before making hiring decisions. But the degree requirement itself is still deeply ingrained, not just in the U.S., but in many countries. So how do we change that? How do we take real action to jailbreak the degree system? What needs to happen to shift the mindset?

Chief Change Officer

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Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series... We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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So far, I've asked you a lot about credentials and education. That's one of my key interests. But in your book, you also introduce this massive Work 3 transformation map. A full framework for how organizations can innovate and leverage emerging technologies. Now, we won't go into all the details today. Maybe we'll save that for future episodes. But I want to ask you this. Let's say I am a CEO.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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You and Deborah present me with this phone. You come in as consultants advising my organization on transformation. Where would you recommend starting? Obviously, executing the full roadmap, strategy, concepts, implementation could take more than a year or even longer. But what's the first step, the first major pain point to tackle?

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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I know it depends on the company, but if you had to pick a key entry point from your roadmap, what would be a strong starting place for any organization looking to make a meaningful shift?

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

We'll also go behind the scenes of George's phone, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think. I spent over an hour diving into your book.

Chief Change Officer

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So, would it be fair to say that the metaverse, Web3, and all these emerging technologies are essentially bridges, tools that help us redefine the employee experience? Not just in one way, but in ways that actually make sense for our lives, our productivity, our outcome, and our well-being? Would you put it that way?

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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You mentioned that you and Deborah, the co-founder of WorkStreet Institute, worked on this book together with you. I know there's quite a story behind how this book came to be. Can you share that with us here?

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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How did you get HBR on board with this book? They publish a lot of business books, many from professors, industry leaders, and big-name executives. Of course, Deborah is a leader in her space, and you have your HBS background, but pitching a book idea is never easy. So how did you make the case? What convinced them that this was a book they had to publish? What did that process look like?

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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How long did the whole book process take? Now you are at the finish line with the launch. But of course, that's really just the beginning of a new chapter. From that initial cold call to getting to this point, how long was the journey? What did that timeline look like?

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series, We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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That makes sense. About 10 years ago, I actually published two books in Chinese, not in English. That's why I never sent you my books. One was with a commercial publisher, and the other was through a university publisher in China. I finished both within two years, and one for Hong Kong, the other distributed at the national level in China.

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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Long story short, I've always appreciated the depth a book brings. At some point, I love to write one in English. Because a book isn't just a quick e-book or 10-page summary. It holds real thought, deep reflection, and analytical depth. These days, sure, a lot of people use AI tools to generate content.

Chief Change Officer

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Actually, going through the full process like you did, building a platform, engaging with an audience, testing ideas, and then rolling out a fully developed book, that's something I truly admire. For that reason, I spent over an hour diving into your book, And certain chapters really caught my attention, especially the ones on talent, skills, credentials, and degrees.

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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You and I, you are from Harvard. I'm from Yale. Above beneficiaries of brand name degrees. In the traditional playbook, that gave us a clear advantage in securing opportunities. but with emerging technologies, are degrees becoming less and less relevant and useful? In your book, you talk about how employers still claim to degree requirements. It's a tough mindset to break.

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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As someone who has benefited from a prestigious degree, just like I have, what's your take? Do degrees still matter? Or is it time for a new way of thinking, working, and doing?

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

We'll also go behind the scenes of George's book, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think.

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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What a story, right? From a cocoa to a book, that's making waves. George is proof that big ideas can come from anywhere. But now, let's get tactical. In the next episode, we'll explore the Work3 framework, how companies can actually implement change instead of just talking about it. If you want to know what's next for work, you won't want to miss this. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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This is pretty rude, in fact, because there's an art of building relationship, being immersed in a community, but being yourself at the same time. And lastly, when it comes to learning, Very easy to learn anything these days, any skills very quickly, but a lot of those are technical skills or tool skills. You just learn to use a certain tool. Those skills, I must say, they are commodities.

Chief Change Officer

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Anyone can do it these days. Being commodity meaning that it has a very low value. AI can do a lot of those now. So when it comes to learning, learn the skills that you can own it, you can evolve with those. And those skills in the good old days, we call those soft skills.

Chief Change Officer

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But going forward, those will become the premium hard skills, resilience, critical reasoning, analytical skills, and even AI can do a lot of computation faster. But when it comes to you making observation and figure things out with the help of technology, building relationship, business relationship, and life relationship, career relationships, networking, so to speak, which is an abuse term.

Chief Change Officer

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But when it comes to managing your life, your career, changes, direction, the way forward, while the risk factors are identifiable, a lot of them are not quantifiable. That creates a lot of anxiety, fear, unknown. Hence, some people just they put don't change at all.

Chief Change Officer

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It's all about the human skills. So focus on the human skills that you can embrace, but also own it to yourself. That would become your own signature, your own brand. In the last part of our interview, I asked Katie about her book recommendation, about her learning habits and her learning process. She said she got three pillars of learning. What are those three pillars? You may wonder.

Chief Change Officer

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Well, let's find out.

Chief Change Officer

#199 From Wall Street to Wonder: Katie Curry’s Playbook for Risk, Resilience & Reinvention — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Last time, I was talking to an old friend from Yale, Katrina Curry, or as many know her as Katie.

Chief Change Officer

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In a social media era, we tend to talk so much. It's always one-way communication. We type, we share, we post. We never answer, never respond. Then the whole communication cycle becomes worse and worse. It's about listening that we lack and we miss. Without listening, there won't be communication.

Chief Change Officer

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Without communication, there won't be relationship building, let alone choosing, building, joining, and enjoying the beauty of being in a community. Going back to one of your points about reflection, I can't agree with you more. That's the ability to consolidate. I call this a solitude moment. I know we talk a lot about epidemic of loneliness.

Chief Change Officer

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Now, loneliness, when this is overwhelming, is hurtful. But a good degree of being alone solitude moment is healthy i do the same for myself a lot of times in fact i try not to speak i try not to contact or get contacted by a lot of people i need the time to reflect on what's going on now how can i do it better to learn about myself and to move forward stronger and better

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Well, yeah, we cover so much, yet we still have other things. I definitely love to ask you more.

Chief Change Officer

#199 From Wall Street to Wonder: Katie Curry’s Playbook for Risk, Resilience & Reinvention — Part Two

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I will. I will. I will certainly say. Once we finish one season, for the next season, I would like to ask you and please come over. In fact, I even already have speakers say, yes, I will come every season. So at least I signed them up for four times already for the whole year.

Chief Change Officer

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In the future, to have part two, part three, part four about your experience with business process transformation, the so-called less glamorous, but also very essential part of innovation. Parenting is another angle that we can cover.

Chief Change Officer

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard. Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#199 From Wall Street to Wonder: Katie Curry’s Playbook for Risk, Resilience & Reinvention — Part Two

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In this episode, we are switching gear, moving from her own career life and changes onto the changes we are going to see in the work market, in particular about Gen Z. According to World Economic Forum, by year 2025, about a quarter of our workforce will be Gen Z. So this is a force that we will reckon with. Katie is a mother of two. She got two Gen Z children.

Chief Change Officer

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At work, she's managing a workforce, spending across different generations. So what's her take on working with leading and motivating the younger generations at work? She's also going to share a couple of career tips for the younger generation to thrive in this era of change. And later, we'll take a sneak peek into Katie's personal learning habits and her book recommendation. So stick around.

Chief Change Officer

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Let's get started. Katie, you and I are Gen X, but this era is a multi-generational workforce era. And you're a mother of two. In raising two young children, what have you learned from this personal experience and applied to working with and managing a younger workforce?

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Over the years, I've helped Generation X, Y, Z with their different career and life issues. Sometimes, like you said, they're all humans, regardless of age and generations. Each generation, to be honest, has their own challenges and issues. I wouldn't say Gen X, like us, we don't value or appreciate meritocracy versus Gen Z values more or vice versa.

Chief Change Officer

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Now, since you have a lot of experience at home and at work, working with and growing up with Gen Z, give them a couple of advice.

Chief Change Officer

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career-wise, or the flip side of this question, in fact, would be in light of the rise of this generation in the workforce, where the challenges you see hence your advice to them, how can they make the best out of the whole situation and make the impact they want for people around them, for the world, and for themselves?

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She did, and many more things she has achieved since she made that move from Bulgaria to United States. Like me and a lot of people with strong finance background, we always talk about risk, the upside risk, downside risk, the risk tolerance, the risk appetite. How can we maximize return, minimize risks?

Chief Change Officer

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First of all, superpower. Keep learning. Second of all, humility. Choose the right one for you. Choose to be associated with people you want to be associated with. Third, the ability to pivot, the ability to handle change. This podcast is called Chief Change Officer. Of course, I believe in change. I myself, as I said, right now, going through the 18th change in my career and life.

Chief Change Officer

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I believe that everyone, regardless of your age, your gender, your culture, your background, your generation, wherever you are, whatever you do, you have the ability to change and change for good. For yourself, a new job, new career, new direction. For your communities, for the people around you, and for the world, whatever you're trying to do for the world. So yes, change. The ability to change.

Chief Change Officer

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One thing I like to add to this point is some people mistake change as private. And I found some people take it so lightly. It becomes a careless act of change as opposed to be a thoughtful strategy of making things better for you and for the people you care to impact positively. So the word privet and change, I like to draw the attention of the audience. Privet is easy.

Chief Change Officer

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Today you want to do this, next day you want to do that. Technology allows us to do it in a very, very cost-effective manner in whatever we want to pursue. But if you care enough about your life and career direction or the impact you care to make, You need to be thoughtful about why you do this today and change tomorrow. Why can't you stick around longer?

Chief Change Officer

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Build up the credential, the track record, the relationship or the network that a lot of people like to say, or the community before you quite quit. Change takes commitment. Change is more strategic. That brings us to the second point. Katie mentioned about community, for you to be part of a community, when it comes to building relationship, once again, it takes commitment.

Chief Change Officer

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Today's technology, we can be connected with anyone, everyone. Send an ad request, people say yes within seconds, but this is not a community, let alone having any kind of friendship or relationship. I care myself so much about community or being associated with people I wanted to be associated with or want to learn from.

Chief Change Officer

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Hence, more than 20 years ago, I chose to give up two years of my life and went for an MBA degree because I want to be associated with all the smart people, all the energetic people. One of them is Katie. After 20-some years, when I reached out to her for this interview invitation, she said yes right away. That is not only the power of community on day one.

Chief Change Officer

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That's the power of community with exponential power to 20 years later. That's the longevity of a community, a relationship, which I think we lack in this era, thanks to social media. So the ability to keep up with your community, to keep up with the relationship, or to make friends, that's not something a social media or any kind of technology can replace and can teach you.

Chief Change Officer

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Social media is antisocial. So one has to learn how to make friends, how to pick friends, pick the right community that you can evolve within it, that you can keep up with, and they can keep up with you. If the community isn't right for you, how you move on, you don't have to unblock or block someone.

Chief Change Officer

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In our culture, the way we've been taught, we often think that being a top-notch leader is all about having a flashy title, a fat wallet, and a ton of power. But we're in the era of change. Things are changing around us so rapidly. I believe the measure of success and what it means to be excellent as a leader has evolved. Now, excellence is all about resilience.

Chief Change Officer

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Lots of adventures, lots of failure, lots of success, and lots of resilience. Here comes my good old friend, Katie.

Chief Change Officer

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It's not just about how big your title, how rich you are, and how much power you hold today. It's about how well you bounce back from changes and how long the game you play into tomorrow. Katie, with that in mind, how do you view your leadership style? And perhaps what kind of leader do you see yourself as?

Chief Change Officer

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So Katie, you and I are Gen X, but you have another identity. You are a mother of two. They're both Gen Z. They're still in school, but at some point they will enter the workforce. In the office, you manage a wide range of generations. So as a mother and leader, leading younger generations. Can you share with us about your take on working with them?

Chief Change Officer

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#198 From Wall Street to Wonder: Katie Curry’s Playbook for Risk, Resilience & Reinvention — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In today's episode, I'll be chatting with a dear friend from my Yale days, Katrina Curry, or as many know her as Katie.

Chief Change Officer

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ah, I'd like to learn more about your learning habit these days. We'll come back to you on this. But go back to your transformation, the changes you've gone through. So in your life so far, you've moved from Bulgaria to United States, from New York City to New Haven, Connecticut, then back to New York from banking into credit rating agency, and now into insurance in a growing venture.

Chief Change Officer

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So throughout all of these different stages and forms of transformations, what's your approach to managing changes over time?

Chief Change Officer

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Katie and I share a background in risk assessment and measurement, well-trained and developed through years of working with banks, fund houses, and insurance companies. But when it comes to her career, Katie has taken her understanding of risk to a new level. stepping out of her comfort zone with a deliberate approach.

Chief Change Officer

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Mental toughness. The border term is resilience. Now, since you bring up the term mental toughness, so let me move on to the next question about the mental side of things. You and I come from a very strong business education background. And in business education program, we are trained to be highly analytical, strongly logical.

Chief Change Officer

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especially for business, but even when it comes to managing our life and career, we have been very thoughtful, but also very analytical, a lot of back and forth analysis, pros and cons. But we have our psychology, we're after a human and business education is light on that kind of training. So when it comes to your reinvention,

Chief Change Officer

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how you balance the logic side of you as well as the psychology side of you.

Chief Change Officer

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Like me, Katie has her share of navigating and overcoming multiple rounds of reinventions through diverse cultures. In her case, from small town to Big Apple, from Bulgaria to United States. from communism to Wall Street, from New York City to Yale School of Management, from established credit rating agency to a tech innovation company in the insurance industry.

Chief Change Officer

#198 From Wall Street to Wonder: Katie Curry’s Playbook for Risk, Resilience & Reinvention — Part One

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Speaking of resilience, of change, of reinvention, a lot of people are risk-averse. If I keep using the risk concept, you know, they have fear of failure. They're afraid that they will fail. That's also another fear, fear of judgment. They don't like to be judged. They don't like to be questioned. What's your personal definition of failure and success after so many years on the Wall Street?

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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Yeah, I think this tolerance for failure is very important. It's not something non-athletes are typically trained for. Speaking of non-athletes, this might be a good point for us to step back and look at the bigger picture.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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Earlier, you mentioned starting your business around the COVID period, when everyone was stuck at home and started developing different perspectives on their careers and lives. Now, we are back to normal, but the world has changed. and still changing with technology and other moving factors. A lot of uncertainties with layoffs, corporate downsizing, inflation, etc.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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In this kind of environment, you probably get a lot of inquiries from regular people about whether franchising could be the next chapter of their lives. So I have two related questions for you. First, for non-athletes listening who may not have the athletic background, what advice would you give them for making this decision? What factors should they consider?

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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Second, given the uncertainties in the economy and other factors, When people want to start a new chapter in their lives, they feel the urge, the pressure to do so quickly, which comes with risks. James, you are a nice, incredible person, but that could be others in your business who are not as trustworthy as you.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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So once these regular people decide to move into this new world of franchising, how can they be smarter about figuring out who to work with and what kind of business to get into?

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today at our studio, We welcome James Hilofsky from Riverside in Southern California.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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So I have great respect for franchising as a business model that can positively transform lives. Let's discover how James has used franchising for the greater good for both athletes and everyday people.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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So, a lot of due diligence is needed, really hands-on due diligence, before jumping into investing a chunk of money. It's not just the financial investment, also the time and hope you're putting into potentially creating something that could be generationally relevant for your children and yourself in the future. Whether you are in your pre-retirement or retirement life, so much sticks on hand.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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To wrap up our interview, I was wondering, James, when you look back at helping both athletes and non-athletes, what's the most fulfilling impact you found yourself making in this business? Of course, building a successful business is important. But I'm curious about the impact you're most proud of in these four years.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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Great. Thank you so much, James. Thanks for your time and all the insights. Like any other major change in life, career changes, including franchising, can be incredibly fulfilling. It is a rewarding journey, not just for you as the facilitator, but for both sides of the business equation. I hope that every listen to this show feels inspired.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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If you're considering franchising, talk to James or other credible experts and do thorough due diligence about the business and about yourself. is a big decision, but it can be a worthwhile one.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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When you look back at these examples where you acted as the advisor and matchmaker, helping them figure out their plans and goals, what are the three qualities that stand out in these successful individuals? These qualities could be skill, mindsets, psychological traits, or something related to the sports they play.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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Can you name some key qualities that are common and contribute to success in franchising for these athletes?

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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Sure. Leadership quality, of course, being a strong team player and having a risk-taking mindset. In fact, leadership has many elements, but basically it's about being a team player, a risk taker, and being coachable. In sports, they always have coaches. When you talk about coaching, it reminds me of the scenario in venture and entrepreneurship, especially in tech ventures.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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In the past, when I talked to investors, or venture capitalists. I asked them what kind of entrepreneurs or founders you'd like to invest in or admire. One quality they mentioned was being coachable. They explained that some founders might be very smart and passionate, but if they are not receptive to coaching, is a problem.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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These founders may resist advice, fail to learn from mistakes, and ignore experienced voices. This is what investors mean by being coachable. I can totally relate to that when you mentioned the coachability of athletes.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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James runs a unique franchise consulting business, primarily serving retired athletes from the NBA and NFL who are starting new chapters in their lives as franchisees. He also helps regular people with their franchise businesses. James believes that using his expertise in franchising to change lives and livelihoods of families and future generations is a dream come true endeavor.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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Would you say ego could be a risk for athletes? What other qualities should athletes watch out for? Looking at the flip side, what traits could counteract success in franchising and leadership?

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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Yeah, I can tell from your explanation that when athletes transition into the business world, whether as franchisees or stand-alone entrepreneurs, ego can be a risk. But Beyond Ego is also about figuring out what kind of risks they want to take and what costs they are willing to incur. By costs, I don't just mean money, but also learning curves and other challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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To me, franchising is a more controllable type of business venture because, like you said, the system is established, risks are calculatable, and there is a track record. In contrast, starting a new business from scratch is riskier. If you are a creative type of athlete, you might want to start something on your own from the ground up. In that case, are you ready to take that kind of risk?

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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Are you ready to step up and make the best use of your leadership skills? Different personalities and risk tolerance levels come into play during this transition. Let me play devil's advocate for a moment. While you argue that the transition from sportsmanship to franchise leadership has many similarities and seems like a perfect fit, there are hidden areas to consider.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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In sports world, everything is clear cut and measurable. For example, in swimming, one of my favorite sports. You know who wins the gold medal because it's the person who finishes the fastest. The timing technology is sophisticated and precise, leaving no ambiguity.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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In the business world, however, while we have financial goals and key performance indicators, there are many hidden risks and ambiguities, especially when dealing with people, partners, and employees. Athletes are trained in controlled environments. But when they move into less controlled business environments, even within franchising, they face uncertainties.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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I haven't been a franchisee or franchisor myself, but I do have experience with the franchise business. Many years ago, when my parents immigrated to Canada with zero local experience and connections, they ventured into franchising to make a living. Despite the hardships, using franchising as a means to fulfill the dream of becoming immersed and settled in the community was life changing.

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

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How do you help athletes make this transition? Does it involve mindset shifts, education, or more coaching? What do you think?

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Dominic, now in his 50s, is facing the same challenge as many of us are, aging parents. Only he's not just navigating it, he's building businesses around it. We'll dive into the future of aging tech, the cultural barriers that slow innovation. and why the biggest business opportunity in Japan might just be the one no one's paying enough attention to. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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You are looking to establish successful use cases, something tangible that can attract more resources, build momentum, and bring more voices to support your vision. That's how real impact happens. So I'm curious about the two projects you are currently working on. What are they, and more specifically, what problems are they solving? Since you mentioned that you carefully selected them,

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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There must be a strong reason behind why you believe they have a real short SSS. Can you tell us more about that?

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Sure, there's so much to unpack in this topic, and I'd love to dive deeper in future episodes with you. But for now, as we conclude this conversation, after speaking with so many entrepreneurs and creators, and after carefully selecting just two projects to test in Japan, what have you learned?

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are talking with Dominic Carter, CEO of the Carter Group, whose journey from Australia to Japan is anything but predictable. He didn't just move aboard.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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For those listening or watching this on YouTube, whether they're builders, entrepreneurs, or investors, or maybe they're already working on something in this space, what advice would you give them? What risks should they watch out for? And on the flip side, what immediate opportunities should they pay attention to? your insights could be incredibly valuable to those making way in this space.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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I know there's a personal reason that led you to this next big thing. Can you share that story with us? What made this the right path for you?

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Yesterday, I spoke with another guest about social impact, and she summed it up with three words, culture, cause, and capital. As you talk about opportunities and risks in Japan's aging space, I realized these three words fit perfectly. Cause, which is making life better for the aging population. Culture, which is understanding local nuances so products actually work for Japanese consumers.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Capital, which is money. Money is important, but if a product doesn't meet real needs, it won't succeed. The economics is not right. Sometimes it's about tweaking the approach, the messaging, or even the design. And like you said, aging solutions aren't just about nursing homes or healthcare. There are so many unmet needs for people over 50, over 60, tons of opportunity.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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At the end of the day, it's about understanding the user, what they want, what they don't, and why. Aligning both sides is what creates real impact.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Change is happening whether we like it or not. We age every second. It's not about if we change, but about how we change. And that's exactly what you're working on. Helping shape that change in a way that's human and meaningful. There's so much to consider. Mental health, financial security, and yes, scams.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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That's a serious issue in Japan, especially since it's one of the richest countries in the world with much of the wealth in the hands of the older generation. Lots to talk about and even more to do. Dominic, thank you so much for your time today.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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And that's where we leave it. From career changes to tackling Japan's aging crisis, Dominic's story is a lesson in adaptation, both in business and in life. The reality is, aging isn't something happening to other people. It's happening to all of us. The real question is, How are we going to prepare for it? Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Right. So.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Technology, no doubt, it plays a huge role. And I'll let you talk more about that in a moment. But as I was listening to your personal story, I couldn't help but relate. I'm also over 50. My parents are in the mid-70s, early 80s. And of course, many of my friends have parents around the same age. And yes, generational shifts are something we all see coming.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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What affects my parents now will eventually affect me. And not just now, but in the years ahead. But don't you think part of the challenge isn't just technology? It's not about having the right tools or even how good they are. A huge part of the problem is mindset and habit. Our parents' generation often isn't mentally prepared to adopt technology deeply.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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even when it could make their lives easier, healthier, or better. So when we talk about technology adoption, isn't the biggest barrier sometimes not the tech itself, but the willingness to accept and use it?

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

58.957

He jumped headfirst into a new culture, built a career, burned out, left, and then came right back, this time on his own terms. In Part 1, we dig into his early days, how a fascination with Japan turned into a full-blown career, why opening a Tokyo office at 24 almost broke him, and what made him bet on himself as an entrepreneur. In Part 2, things get personal.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Sure. So far, I haven't asked about your specific role in this tech space. Are you more of an investor? Are you actually building the technology? Or are you more on the marketing and community building side? What exactly is your role right now? And looking ahead, do you see yourself shifting, doing more of certain things, less of others?

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Because beyond just creating new products, there's also the challenge of shaping mindsets, helping people become more open and receptive to this future of aging. How do you see your role in making that happen?

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

100

Dominic, now in his 50s, is facing the same challenge as many of us are, aging parents. Only he's not just navigating it, he's building businesses around it. We'll dive into the future of aging tech, the cultural barriers that slow innovation. and why the biggest business opportunity in Japan might just be the one no one's paying enough attention to. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Before we dive into your big current project, which I see has huge potential, let's do a quick age check. I know there's a personal reason that led you to this next big thing. Can you share that story with us? What made this the right path for you?

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Right. Yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Technology, no doubt, it plays a huge role And I'll let you talk more about that in a moment. But as I was listening to your personal story, I couldn't help but relate. I'm also over 50. My parents are in the mid-70s, early 80s. And of course, many of my friends have parents around the same age. And yes, generational shifts are something we all see coming.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

1275.683

What affects my parents now will eventually affect me, and not just now, but in the years ahead. But don't you think part of the challenge isn't just technology? It's not about having the right tools or even how good they are. A huge part of the problem is mindset and habit. Our parents' generation

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are talking with Dominic Carter, CEO of the Carter Group, whose journey from Australia to Japan is anything but predictable. He didn't just move aboard.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

1305.732

often isn't mentally prepared to adopt technology deeply, even when it could make their lives easier, healthier, or better. So when we talk about technology adoption, isn't the biggest barrier sometimes not the tech itself, but the willingness to accept and use it?

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Good afternoon to you, Dominic. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Dominic, you were originally from Australia, but now you're in Japan. You've been there for over 20 years or so. What brought you all the way from Australia to Japan is quite a long flight.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Sure. So far, I haven't asked about your specific role in this tech space. Are you more of an investor? Are you actually building the technology? Or are you more on the marketing and community building side? What exactly is your role right now? And looking ahead, do you see yourself shifting, doing more of certain things, less of others?

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

1603.115

Because beyond just creating new products, there's also the challenge of shaping mindsets, helping people become more open and receptive to this future of aging. How do you see your role in making that happen?

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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That's it for today. We've explored Dominic's journey from an outsider in Australia to building a career and a life in Japan. But his story doesn't stop there. Next, we turn to a challenge that hits close to home. Aging. From navigating his parents' changing needs to pushing the boundaries of aging tech in Japan, Dominic is tackling the future in a way that's both personal, scalable, and urgent.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Join me for part two. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Do you mind if I ask you at what age you moved over from Australia? After college or even before?

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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So basically, you first went there representing an overseas company. You did that for a few years, but decided, okay, time for a break, time to move on. You went back home, but then you returned, this time on your own. And ever since, you stayed, worked, built your business, and established your own credentials. Not to mention, you've built up your Japanese skills along the way.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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I'm guessing you speak it very well now.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Being your own boss comes with freedom, but it also means owning every decision, every action. Entrepreneurship, when successful, can bring big rewards, financially and otherwise, but behind the big paycheck comes There's also a lot of stress, pressure, and challenges that outsiders don't usually see. They just see the highlight reel, maybe even your face on a magazine cover.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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7, 8, 9 figure success? Great! Or maybe you are a low-profile entrepreneur just quietly building. Either way, it takes a certain type of person. Just like not everyone moves to Japan and stays long term, not everyone is cut out for entrepreneurship. Now, I know you've had your hands full over the past 20 years, running businesses, building, evolving.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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He jumped headfirst into a new culture, built a career, burned out, left, and then came right back, this time on his own terms. In Part 1, we dig into his early days, how a fascination with Japan turned into a full-blown career, why opening a Tokyo office at 24 almost broke him, and what made him bet on himself as an entrepreneur. In Part 2, things get personal.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Can you walk us through your entrepreneurial journey? Not just the ups and the downs, but also the types of things you've built along the way. I'd love to hear more about how it all unfolded.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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I can see you're one of those people who's always moving forward, not making random redness jumps, but also never letting yourself get too comfortable. Looking back, what do you think drives you? What's the common thread behind every time you push past your boundaries into the next big thing? Is it motivation, emotion, a certain mindset, or something else entirely?

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Some people are purely opportunistic. They follow the money, chasing trends that bring the biggest returns. But in my view, if that is the main driver, it doesn't lead to sustainable success. So what about you? What's the thread that connects everything you've done A to B to C and keeps you stretching your limits?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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These days, when we talk about work culture, whether on social media or in actual conversations about the job market, one term that keeps coming up is toxic culture. Personally, I think office politics is one source of toxicity, yet it's almost inevitable when you have people working together. But beyond that, there are plenty of other factors that can contribute to a negative work environment.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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We also unpack some key nuggets of wisdom. including five simple things anyone can do to succeed at work. In this episode, Erica will open up about her life and career experiences, her upbringing, her parents, her leadership approach, and even her thoughts on toxic work cultures. And here's something you won't hear in other interviews.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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From your experience, What's your take on toxic culture? What experiences have you had in dealing with negativities in the office environment?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In the last episode, we started our two-part series featuring Erica Ayers Borden, the current CEO of Food52, a leading innovator in the food, cooking, and home space.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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with four or five generations currently in the workforce, each having different experiences and perspectives. I imagine even the same situation can be seen through very different lenses. I know you have two teenagers in your family. and if they come to you for advice about their careers, not now, but maybe in a few years, they're considering what to study in college.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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What kind of advice would you give them? Not as a successful CEO or social media figure, but as a parent, how would you guide them about their future, considering what you see happening in today's workplace?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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What career advice would Erica give her own two middle school children? Given the fact that we are in such rapidly changing workplace. Let's dive right in.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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Yes, for sure. Kids these days have access to so much so easily. I didn't even get on a plane until I was 11. And now you see kids flying business class at such a young age. traveling the world with their parents, getting sent to boarding schools, things we couldn't imagine back then. But anyway, that's probably a topic for another episode on parenting.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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So for my last question, looking ahead, what's your next challenge? Maybe it's not just the next one. Perhaps you already have a few things in mind, or maybe it's about a single life mission that you've been pursuing all along with each project being another step towards that goal. Can you share with us your business goals, life goals, or any future projects you're planning to embark on?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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Maybe another book on parenting, for example.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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Thank you, Erica. I really enjoyed our conversation. You are a busy executive. And as I said at the beginning of our part one together, that's the last episode, I feel like I hit the jackpot, locking you down for an hour for this interview. Your nuggets of wisdom, including those 90-second pieces of advice on your YouTube channel are truly valuable. I love your energy.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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I found that in my life and in the lives of many successful people I know, their career decisions, how they present themselves, and what they care about often link back to the past, whether it's their family upbringing, early experiences, or even history of their parents or grandparents. These impact who they are today. Could you share a bit more about your younger years?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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Maybe something from your family life or childhood that nurtured your business instincts despite not going to business school? Was this something from your past that helped shape the person you are today? motivated, ambitious, successful, yet always true to yourself?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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It sounds like you grew up to be pretty independent, solving problems on your own. Recently, I saw a post on social media talking about Generation X. They call it the figure-it-out generation. They said we had to learn how to solve things on our own because our parents were too busy to hover over us. I'm Gen X too, and I can definitely relate to that. The story reminds me of that experience.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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I also grew up in a disciplined environment. And my parents actually blocked me from watching TV. Not just MTV, but all TV. The funny thing is, I am a visual learner. So I realized later that I learn best when I'm stimulated by visual images. Yeah, same. Okay. Now, you've become CEO of two companies. Let's talk about your adulthood. In particular, about building career.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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From your perspective, are titles at work really that important?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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Before her time at Food52, Erica was the first ever CEO of Barstool Sports, and her career spans across media, marketing, and tech, with roles at companies like Fidelity Investments, Microsoft, AOL, and Yahoo. She is also the author of a new book called No One Cares About Your Career. In the last episode, we dive into the book, why she wrote it, why now, and why this title.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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Yeah, I must admit, I used to be quite conscious about titles, especially in the financial services industry where titles often aligned with salary. If you don't have a MD title, for example, the salary range can be significantly lower. So in the first few years of my post-MBA career, titles become a way to measure growth and progression. They were not an obsession, but they definitely mattered.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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For a lot of people, titles are still tied to career advancement. On the flip side, in the tech and startup world, titles like CEO have become much more democratized. But like you said, it's not really about the title. It's about the impact you make. With great titles comes great responsibility. That leads me to my next question. As a leader, Beyond titles, how do you define success?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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And how do you define failure? In your book, you mentioned that failure is actually a good thing. I'd love to hear your perspective on failure versus success.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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So would you say the kind of culture you're building leans more towards a growth mindset? You've mentioned that you prefer employees to take risks, try things out. And even if it doesn't work out, you value the effort and the approach. Is that how you foster a culture of continuous improvement, where the process gets refined over time and eventually leads to better results?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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A related question would be, how would you define your leadership style and approach?

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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In the field of business education, dominated by discussions of numbers, strategies, formulas, and models, all the logical stuff, the concept of love has never surfaced in any curriculum or textbook I've come across. Yet, she bought it into our discussions on angel investing.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Ten years ago, during the summer term of the executive MBA program at Chicago Booth, I had the pleasure of meeting today's guest, Waverly Deutsch.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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It makes you wonder, how does love fit into building a business, advancing a business career, and fulfilling our life's legacy? With that in mind, I've put together a three-part series called Love & Logic, featuring Waverly as our special guest. She will be sharing and exploring from three perspectives how the intricate balance of love and logic shapes our career decisions and life choices.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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While listening to you, I felt like we were having coffee together. Your story had me nodding, laughing, and utterly fascinated. You present this blend of strong analytical thinking with a very human, social side. Considering your career shifts and external pressures you faced, you mentioned some kind of luck or perhaps karma.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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It got me thinking, how aware are you when it comes to making what you call calculated decisions? This ties into our theme of love and logic, the heart and the head. When you reach a critical point in your career path, how much do you lean on your analytical side? I'm not just talking about money or job titles, but evaluating the broader prospects of a position, diving deep into the industry.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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How much of it is a calculated assessment? Or perhaps is it more about a gut feeling that tells you, hey, this is the right move. So do you consider yourself primarily analytical when making career decisions? Or do you tend to go with the flow? Or maybe you have your own unique approach or system for navigating these decisions. How does that work with you?

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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There are two other words that perfectly capture the essence of love and logic. They are heart and head. Can you recall a pivotal moment or situation when you were torn between following your heart or your head? What ultimately guided your decision then?

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Today's episode zooms in on Waverly's personal journey, the love and logic that have guided her career path and experiences. In our next episode, which is about her being a teacher and expert guide, we'll dive into a major chapter of her career, 22 years at Chicago Bull.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Growing up, I learned a straight rule. No crying at work is simply unprofessional. That was the norm in all the places I've worked and studied, both in the US and abroad. But let's be real. Whether you are a man or a woman, we are human, and humans have emotions. Crying is simply one way we express those emotions.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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There, she taught and coached a sharply focused group of highly logical talents, all deeply engaged in the passion for innovation, change, and entrepreneurship. From that structured academic environment, she has transitioned to her current role as a coach for a more diverse group of entrepreneurs. In the third part of our series, we'll come full circle and focus back on Waverly herself.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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I believe that as our views on gender roles continue to evolve, it's becoming clear that we also need to rethink our attitudes towards showing emotions in the workplace.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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There's a piece of the love and logic puzzle I haven't talked about much yet. So far, I've discussed following your heart as a standalone element. But our hearts, they are heavily influenced by our peers, the people around us, and the social environment we're in. Take my MBA classmates. For example, among my classmates, I am the outliner.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Most of them are in finance, CEO, CFO, senior bankers, senior management consultants, managing partner at PE and VC houses. If I had stayed long enough at certain companies, I would have ended up in those roles as well. But I made different choices along the way, guided by both heart and head.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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The reason I bring up my own story at this juncture is that I've noticed many people struggle not just with the emotional versus logical decision-making, also with not seeing role models who reflect their aspirations. There's also often a deep-seated fear of judgment and fear of failure. These fears influence our hearts and ultimately impact our decisions. I'm curious about your experience.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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How much have external factors like peer pressure, societal judgments or even social norms influenced you? You mentioned earlier that you aren't bound by gender norms, but what about other societal expectations? How have you managed to filter out the noise and make your laws of change along your career path?

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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She's now more than a coach. She's an entrepreneur herself, actively building her own new venture. is a fascinating mix of her ever-changing experiences. Good morning, Wayfully. Welcome to my show. Good morning, Vince. I am thrilled to be here. Usually, I kick off our interview with a little introduction about my guest. Today, I'd like to switch things up a bit.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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We begin today's interview by exploring Waverly's personal journey. intricate blend of love and logic that has guided her from her undergraduate days all the way to retirement. To our listeners, I hope today's episode inspired you to integrate your own love and logic in whatever paths you choose to pursue. In our next episode, which is the second part of our three-part series,

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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will dig deep into a significant chapter of Waverly's career, her 22 years at Chicago Booth. There, she taught and coached a selected group of highly logical talents, undergrads, full-time, part-time, and executive MBAs from around the world, all of whom were passionate about innovation, change, and entrepreneurship. Yet, despite their brilliance, these individuals faced their own challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Waverly has learned to tailor her coaching approach, sometimes offering a bigger dose of love, other times amping up the logic. How exactly did she manage this? Stay tuned. We'll explore that in the next episode. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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I was browsing through the website of your new venture, Wiseheart, and a specific sentence really stood out to me. It said, as a young person, I had an enormous love for the theater and a passion for logic. Love and logic, what a fascinating combination. So Waverly, can you unpack that for us? Tell us, who are you really at the intersection of these two worlds?

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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As you indicated, that was late 70s and early 80s. There must be very, very few females in your computer science class. How did you navigate this deeply man-dominated world?

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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One of, sorry, you're saying one of three or four women in the advanced computer science class. Like how many students were in that class?

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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She taught one of the standout courses in the executive program called Building New Ventures. In just a moment, I'll let Waverly introduce herself. But first, I would like to share a memorable memory that really sets her apart.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Even when I grew up, I'm younger than you by about 10 years. Tomboy was still a commonly used term in my generation. Don't forget, we're now in June 2024. The month of June is the month of Pride. So we are proud of our identities.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Throughout my extensive MBA studies at both Yale and Chicago Booth, where I completed the full-time and executive programs respectively, I've sat through countless lectures taught by highly intelligent scholars and well-experienced practitioners. Yet, Waverly is the only professor I've encountered who dared to use the word love in a business school classroom.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Teaching has always been your calling. But I was wondering, during this journey from PhD to teaching, there's something called Forrester. I believe you joined this firm and helped it grow from a boutique into a major institution over a couple of years. You joined as employee 20-something, 27, I believe that's what you told me. So with your calling for teaching, with your PhD degree,

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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You could have stayed in the university, building your academic career from assistant professor to associate to a tenure professor, a very well predicted career path. But then what happened in between? We'll talk about Chicago, your teaching career, 22 years teaching careers in Chicago. But before that, let's talk about what happened in the 90s.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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Are there lessons from these business cases that also resonate on a personal level, especially when we face dilemmas or crossroads in our own lives?

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skills decking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up. This one is a ride. Colin, finally, I got you to my show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Good morning to you.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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Just now, Colin unpacked his unique perspective on change. change addict turned change guru. From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shared how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In part two, tomorrow, we'll explore the learning required for transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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Colin has, I don't even know how many degrees under his belt. Why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future. And part three for Friday will tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Come back tomorrow and join us. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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Colin is from Canada, the Big North, a very cold place. I used to live in Toronto myself. Colin is in another province, or in America, we call it a state. So Colin, let's start with your story. Who are you, what you're doing now, but also what did you do in the past? Your past, your journey, and your history.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge. In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries, seven countries lived in, seven more secunded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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In your self-introduction, Two words caught my attention. Change addict and change guru. How do you define these two terms?

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

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#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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So being a change addict, ideally, would you say you're one of those who puts in a good amount of calculation behind each change? Or is it more like, oh, it's just that feeling? What type are you? Have you ever thought about that?

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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Like you said, one of the threats running through your experience is change and strategy. You've worked with so many firms and organizations, guiding them through their transformations. So you must have seen countless business cases unfold. What have you learned from these consulting projects and organization change initiatives that could apply to individual situations?

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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Siham thrives in adversity. She describes herself as more than resilient. She is anti-fragile. I see her as someone who has learned over time to turn adversity into an advantage. is not an inborn talent, rather is something nurtured and developed. How? Let's find out. Politics, whether in government or the office, is something that some people are really good at navigating.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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So basically, you're saying that while you work with women from different parts of the world, you found that many of the challenges they face are universal. Yes, there may be local cultural elements or influences.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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But many of these issues across cultural, for example, being judged, whether it's for being married, having children, not having children, being LGBTQ, having long hair, short hair, these judgments aren't limited to women in Belgium, New York, San Francisco, or Hong Kong. They're simply issues that women everywhere face.

Chief Change Officer

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You are helping women from different corners of the world navigate these universal challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How do I even begin to introduce our first guest from Belgium who has Moroccan roots? Her name is Siham El-Kawakibi.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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I'm curious, what's the persona of the woman leaders you tend to work with? Or those you are most drawn to helping? The reason I raised this question is because, honestly, in my view, when mainstream people talk about women in leadership, it still feels a bit generic, especially before COVID.

Chief Change Officer

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I noticed that mainstream media tended to showcase a certain type of woman leader, someone who might fit into a traditional mode. such as happily married with two or three children, long hair, maybe blonde, maybe blue eye. Essentially, the ideal wife role model in the eyes of men. This image doesn't differ much from the so-called woman's role models of the past.

Chief Change Officer

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But we know that in reality, there's so much diversity in the world of women leaders. Now that we're in 2024 moving into 2025, the world is changing rapidly. So back to my original question, what types of women leaders do you like to work with or would you like to work with more? I believe even within the world of women leaders, we need more diversity.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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Yes, you mentioned the word trust earlier. In the last few interviews with different guests, whether they were coaches, tech innovators, or someone in recruitment, trust has come up as a key theme. As we enter the AI era, where we'll see more and more applications of AI in our daily lives, the importance of humanity with trust as a major component remains crucial.

Chief Change Officer

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Trust is hard to build, hard to find, and once broken, difficult to repair. For you, as a coach and consultant, trust is a key success factor in pursuing and accelerating your agenda to make an impact on women leaders.

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To wrap up our interview, I'd like to ask you to share genuine advice with our listeners, whether they're young women in their 20s or more experienced women in their 40s, 50s, or 60s. You work with women from various backgrounds. So what are your top three pieces of advice for women facing life challenges, feeling lost, or struggling to find direction?

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Perhaps they might eventually reach out to you for consulting sessions or seek help from a therapist or psychologist. How can they begin to feel more relaxed and take the first steps towards getting unstuck?

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Some people thrive in it and even seek out more of it. It sounds like you saw Parliament as a stage to make a positive impact on the communities you care about. Your intentions were noble. but the environment made things worse. Not only were you unable to create the impact you wanted, but you also faced various attacks and toxic behavior. The same goes for office environments.

Chief Change Officer

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Yeah, I can truly resonate with a lot of those points. For example, the concept of success has become more distorted since the rise of social media. The glorification of success has only gotten worse with everyone talking up their achievements, making everything seem more glamorous than it really is. But honestly, this projection is not only misleading, it can also be entirely false.

Chief Change Officer

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There's so much happening behind the scenes that people don't show. If you take those projections as truth or benchmarks for your own efforts, you end up losing because the benchmark isn't even real. Instead, you should focus on your own progress. Making progress every day, whether it's learning something new, reading a few pages, taking a short course, or exercising, is empowering.

Chief Change Officer

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You see yourself improving day by day, and that's what matters. Learning is both empowering and an investment. People often talk about helping women become more financially independent, focusing on financial investment. But investing in yourself, learning new skills, earning certificates, or even exploring fields like prompt engineering can be incredibly lucrative.

Chief Change Officer

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It opens up new opportunities that can eventually turn into financial gains. Learning is an investment in yourself. Women around the world have often been bound by certain systems and structures since childhood. Whenever we deviate from those expectations, we face judgment and discouragement. We need more healthy positivity to help us advance, even if it's just bed by bed.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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Many corporate workers might be incredibly smart and capable, but they struggle to climb the corporate ladder. because they either don't play politics, don't play it well, or aren't willing to play it at all. I've been in the corporate world, and I've seen and experienced my share of political maneuvering. I've had my own struggles with mental health due to corporate politics.

Chief Change Officer

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Because as you said, everything compounds over time.

Chief Change Officer

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Sia, you are being modest. It's your first time as a guest on an English-speaking podcast. And it's also my first time as the host and creator of one. A lot of my guests don't have English as their mother tongue. Neither do I. But we are stepping up and moving forward to make our voices heard. And in a noisy world, that's what really matters. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

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If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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That's part of why I decided to become an entrepreneur, a free agent, rather than being bound or controlled by that environment. For many people, whether they are considering a job change, a career shift, or even trying to change the world as an entrepreneur, one key takeaway is to choose your environment and culture carefully. In certain cultures and environments, you can thrive and excel.

Chief Change Officer

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In others, you might struggle. It doesn't mean you are not smart or that your intentions are not good enough. Often, it's the environment and the culture that holds you back, preventing you from achieving what you want to achieve. That's been my experience.

Chief Change Officer

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I know you have your own consulting and coaching practice. You've developed what you call the Women Leaders OS, which stands for Operating System. Can you tell us more about how this approach works? I know it is not a digital system like iOS, the Apple system, but I'm curious to learn more about how this operating system you've designed benefits your target audience, women leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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She is a Moroccan immigrant, a burnout and bankruptcy survivor, a parliamentarian, a champion of diversity and inclusion, She is also the creator of Women Leaders OS and a Women's Leadership Coach. She is all of these and more. Beyond these identities, what truly impresses me are the experiences that have shaped these transformations. Some people thrive in politics. others in stability.

Chief Change Officer

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Like I said, we need more women leaders. And we are seeing more of them emerge around the world. My podcast is global, with guests from different parts of the world. And a major part of the audience is in the U.S. But Siham, you are in Belgium, in Europe. And I'm curious about any specific challenges or interesting phenomena related to women leaders in your country or in your culture.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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Are there particular difficulties or unique cultural aspects in Belgium or your part of Europe that may differ from those in the US or Asia? I'd love to hear about your observations and experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Siham thrives in adversity. She describes herself as more than resilient. She is antifragile. I see her as someone who has learned over time to turn adversity into an advantage. is not an inborn talent. Rather, it's something nurtured and developed. How? Let's find out.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How do I even begin to introduce our first guest from Belgium who has Moroccan roots? Her name is Siham El-Kawakibi.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Politics, whether in government or the office, is something that some people are really good at navigating. Some people thrive in it and even seek out more of it. It sounds like you saw Parliament as a stage to make a positive impact on the communities you care about. Your intentions were noble, but the environment made things worse.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Not only were you unable to create the impact you wanted, but you also faced various attacks and toxic behavior. The same goes for office environments. Many corporate workers might be incredibly smart and capable, but they struggle to climb the corporate ladder because they either don't play politics, don't play it well, or aren't willing to play it at all.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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I've been in a corporate world and I've seen and experienced my share of political maneuvering. I've had my own struggles with mental health due to corporate politics. That's part of why I decided to become an entrepreneur, a free agent, rather than being bound or controlled by that environment.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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For many people, whether they are considering a job change, a career shift, or even trying to change the world as an entrepreneur, one key takeaway is to choose your environment and culture carefully. In certain cultures and environments, you can thrive and excel. In others, you might struggle. It doesn't mean you are not smart or that your intentions are not good enough.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Often, it's the environment and the culture that holds you back, preventing you from achieving what you want to achieve. That's been my experience.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Yes, I'm here. Thank you. Seaham has over 20 years of experience across both the private and public sectors, along with a wealth of personal experiences. That's so much we can talk about today. Before that, Could you give us an overview of your journey through the key milestones of your life and career? Then we'll explore different elements in more detail.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Yes, we met through common friends and explored common topics, which is one of the reasons why I really wanted to interview you. You have so much knowledge and real experience to share. As I mentioned in the show notes, I don't sell the success stories of my guests. They are obviously successful in their own way and in their own space.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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But what makes this podcast special is the real stories, the lived experiences, which sometimes aren't very pleasant. You mentioned mental health, which is undoubtedly a hot topic in today's world. Honestly, in a world as complex and challenging as ours, who can truly say they are perfectly mentally healthy? We all have to deal with different kinds of stress and burnout. So let's stop here.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Let's talk about mental health. If I understood you correctly, Is this something that stems from your years in politics? Or does it go further back? Maybe to your childhood, adolescence, or work life in the private sector? Please share more about the challenges you faced.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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She is a Moroccan immigrant, a burnout and bankruptcy survivor, a parliamentarian, a champion of diversity and inclusion. She is also the creator of Women Leaders OS and a Women's Leadership Coach. She is all these and more. Beyond these identities, what truly impresses me are the experiences that have shaped these transformations. Some people thrive in politics. others in stability.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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So far, I've had two guests in season one, both women who are involved in politics. One is a parliamentarian in Singapore, and the other one was a lawyer in Paris before moving to Senegal to get involved in politics and government. Now she's deeply involved in public administration. In their respective capacities, they've made great impacts in their communities.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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I'd like to share a bit from their experiences. For example, the one in Singapore, my classmate from Chicago MBA, mentioned that the election period and its aftermath were the darkest times in her life. She didn't explicitly mention mental health, but she was attacked on social media for her age and so-called inexperience, being the youngest elected parliamentarian at that time.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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I bring this up because you mentioned that politics is a negative sum game. While I can imagine the satisfaction of being in a position of influence and making an impact on the communities you care about, I can also see how political games could be a major source of mental health challenges. Can you share more about the challenges you faced during that time?

Chief Change Officer

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And of course, without naming names, just the lessons you learned or specific incidents that led to struggles, perhaps even depression. I think that would be helpful.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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So, would it be fair to say that the metaverse, Web3, and all these emerging technologies are essentially bridges, tools that help us redefine the employee experience? Not just in one way, but in ways that actually make sense for our lives, our productivity, our outcome, and our well-being? Would you put it that way?

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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You mentioned that you and Deborah, the co-founder of WorkStreet Institute, worked on this book together with you. I know there's quite a story behind how this book came to be. Can you share that with us here?

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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How did you get HBR on board with this book? They publish a lot of business books, many from professors, industry leaders, and big-name executives. Of course, Deborah is a leader in her space, and you have your HBS background, but pitching a book idea is never easy. So how did you make the case? What convinced them that this was a book they had to publish? What did that process look like?

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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How long did the whole book process take? Now you are at the finish line with the launch. But of course, that's really just the beginning of a new chapter. From that initial cold call to getting to this point, how long was the journey? What did that timeline look like?

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series, We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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That makes sense. About 10 years ago, I actually published two books in Chinese, not in English. That's why I never sent you my books. One was with a commercial publisher, and the other was through a university publisher in China. I finished both within two years, and one for Hong Kong, the other distributed at the national level in China.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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Long story short, I've always appreciated the depth a book brings. At some point, I love to write one in English. Because a book isn't just a quick e-book or 10-page summary. It holds real thought, deep reflection, and analytical depth. These days, sure, a lot of people use AI tools to generate content.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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Actually, going through the full process like you did, building a platform, engaging with an audience, testing ideas, and then rolling out a fully developed book, that's something I truly admire. For that reason, I spent over an hour diving into your book, And certain chapters really caught my attention, especially the ones on talent, skills, credentials, and degrees.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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You and I, you are from Harvard. I'm from Yale. Above beneficiaries of brand name degrees. In the traditional playbook, that gave us a clear advantage in securing opportunities. but with emerging technologies, are degrees becoming less and less relevant and useful? In your book, you talk about how employers still claim to degree requirements. It's a tough mindset to break.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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As someone who has benefited from a prestigious degree, just like I have, what's your take? Do degrees still matter? Or is it time for a new way of thinking, working, and doing?

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

We'll also go behind the scenes of George's book, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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What a story, right? From a cocoa to a book, that's making waves. George is proof that big ideas can come from anywhere. But now, let's get tactical. In the next episode, we'll explore the Work3 framework, how companies can actually implement change instead of just talking about it. If you want to know what's next for work, you won't want to miss this. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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You mentioned that you and Deborah, the co-founder of WorkStreet Institute, worked on this book together with you. I know there's quite a story behind how this book came to be. Can you share that with us here?

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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That's the web for today. We've broken down why traditional employment is crumbling and why companies need to wake up before they lose their best talent. But how do we actually rebuild work for the future? In the next episode, George takes us behind the scenes of his book, Employment Is Dead. from a cold call to a major publishing deal. Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Let's dive right in. First of all, who you really are, what you have done in the past. Then we'll deep dive into different elements of your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Yeah, I couldn't agree more about the short-term mindset. I've studied economics, finance, and accounting. And at the end of the day, even with the best intentions, a competent, capable, and purpose-driven CEO, a chief HR officer, or any senior leader still has to balance doing good with making money. They look at the numbers, the bottom line, and all the financial metrics.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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They ask, how was our accounting income this quarter? What's our cash position? And eventually, they make decisions, sometimes tough ones like cutting jobs. To them, it's ultimately just a number. It feels cold, but that's the reality of how these decisions are made. And yet, in financial reports, you always see the same message. People are our greatest asset.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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But let's be real, on the financial statements, people are not listed as assets. They are categorized as an expense item on the income statement, not something quantified on the balance sheet that drives revenue and income. So while the message says people first, the decision-making still comes down to numbers. In the end, employees are just HR records sitting in the cloud.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Now, I'm not saying this to discredit well-intentioned HR leaders or CEOs. It's just the reality of how businesses operate. Before we get into Wall Street Institute and the solutions you're building for these big challenges, I want to take a step back and talk about your own career journey. You've observed these issues firsthand. And what about your personal experience?

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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When you were fresh off college, studying psychology, working under different leaders and managers, what did that look like for you? Then you went to Harvard for your MBA and learned to be more innovative in your approach. Let's start with your early career. How did your experiences shape the way you see these challenges today and influence the solutions you're working on?

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series, We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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You started with psychology, then went to business school, and now you are in Web3. That's quite the journey. I'm curious about that transition, not just in the sense of switching jobs, but more about what shifted in your mindset. A lot of people see psychology as a soft skill field and tech as a hard skill domain. So what was it for you? Was there something about Web3 that really fascinated you?

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Something that made you think, this is the technology that can truly change the world for good? What was the trigger that pushed you into this uncharted territory coming from a psychology background?

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

We'll also go behind the scenes of George's book, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think. Good morning, Josh. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. It's very early morning for you there.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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So, would it be fair to say that the metaverse, Web3, and all these emerging technologies are essentially breaches, tools that help us redefine the employee experience? Not just in one way, but in ways that actually make sense for our lives, our productivity, our outcome, and our well-being? Would you put it that way?

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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He's the author of Living a Values-Based Life and the creator of the leadership model called Excellent Decisions. In this two-part series, we'll dive into what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. We'll also explore how to make our values visible and sustainable in a world that's constantly changing.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few years ago, I joined a growing venture as the chief people officer. It lasted just six weeks.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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Dust Free? As in D-U-S-T Dust Free?

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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If values are so transformative and essential in shaping behavior and driving success, why do you think most people are unaware of their own values? Is it because they haven't taken the time to reflect? Or is it something deeper, like societal distractions, external pressures, or even a lack of understanding about how to identify values in the very first place?

Chief Change Officer

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I'd love to hear your perspective on this.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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If you feel stuck in your current workplace, it's not necessarily your fault. Often, it's just a misalignment of values. Don't bend your values to fit in. Instead, find a place in a tribe whose values resonate with yours. That's where true happiness and success lie. Let's dive in. Robert, I'm really excited to dive into the ideas behind your book, not just the content, but also the why behind it.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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Absolutely. You've touched on something so critical. Figuring out our values is challenging because, as you said, we've been absorbing others' expectations, whether from parents, schools, peers, or society, like a sponge for years. And when we don't consciously question or explore those imposed values, we can feel stuck or out of place without even understanding why.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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In the workplace, this disconnect often manifests as frustration, disengagement, or being labeled as not a team player. But as you pointed out, is rarely about competence or work ethics. It's about a values mismatch.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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If we take the time to understand our core values, it not only helps us find better alignment with a company or a team, but also enables us to navigate the environment more strategically we can identify where things resonate and where they don't, which teams and leaders share a similar outlook, and how to bridge gaps when values diverge.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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This awareness gives us clarity on how to behave, communicate, and even set boundaries, thereby reducing stress and improving fulfillment. Wouldn't you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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Just now, Robert shared with us what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. In part two, we'll explore how to make our values more visible and sustainable in a world that is constantly changing and noisy. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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What's the story behind this calling to write a book about value? Before we get there, I'd love to hear about your journey leading up to who you are today and the work you do. Which have been shaped by your past, your experiences, your highs, your lows, and your challenges? What moments or turning points in your life that brought you to this very stage?

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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By your own definition, what exactly are values?

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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It's such an insightful point. Feeling like we're constantly fulfilling someone else's agenda that don't align with our own goals or values. It is easy to get lost in this sea, isn't it? Values, like you mentioned, can feel like abstract concepts until we truly define them in our lives. Take honesty, for example. It's a value that sounds universal, but how we live it might differ vastly.

Chief Change Officer

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Robert, I'd love for you to share some specific values you've examined or highlighted in your work Maybe ones that stood out or even surprised you in the importance. Walk us through a couple and ideas behind them. How do they resonate in a world where we often feel disconnected from what really matters?

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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To that CEO, I may have seemed incompetent, but I knew exactly why I had to leave so quickly. It was a major clash of values. I believe in being true and ethical in both words and deeds, while he thrived on a man-made facade of showmanship and hypocrisy. Knowing my values made the decision clear. This experience ties directly to today's guest. Robert Mercier.

Chief Change Officer

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You mentioned that one driving force behind publishing your book was seeing how powerful it is when people figure out the values, align the behaviors with them, and act on them. The results, as you've said, can be extraordinary. Could you share some examples from your coaching experiences without naming names, of course, that highlight this transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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Stories where someone identified their core values, made changes to align with them, and saw incredible results. I think those examples could inspire and show us what's possible when we live in alignment with our values.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Erin Deal, founder and CEO of Improve It, a company that uses improv to help teams grow and thrive. Like me, she's also a top podcast host.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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Honestly, I think 80-90% of my thoughts on any given day being negative. It's just the way our minds work sometimes, especially when uncertainty is evolved. When we think about the future, we tend to naturally default to worst-case scenarios, even when, more often than not,

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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things turn out far less catastrophic than we imagined yet those negative thoughts can feel overwhelming very loud disruptive and hard to ignore personally i have to deal with that noise every single day i hear it but i remind myself to focus to move forward despite the chatted That's why I really value your advice.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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It's practical and it's something I know I can apply right away to keep that noise in check.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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Just a couple of weeks ago, I released two episodes with a guest who wrote a book called Generosity Wins. He's a seasoned CEO who talks about how actions and mindset of generosity not only enrich others, but also create greatest success in life and career.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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One powerful idea he shared was how a single generous action creates a ripple effect, encouraging others to replicate it, and in turn, making the world a little better. Of course, we can't measure the full impact. There's no way to track every ripple, but the concept is the same as what you were saying. When we experience joy or positivity in our lives, we have the chance to pass it on.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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In his example, even something as simple as a smile can spark change. Smiling in a stranger, a colleague, or a friend might seem trivial, but it can create a moment of positivity that ripples outward. It's a reminder that small actions often have the biggest impact.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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Not so much the workshops you facilitate or the lessons you teach, but your personal journey. How you've dealt with, navigated, and grown from failure over time. If you like, feel free to share specific stories and give us an overview of your journey with failure. Either way works.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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I haven't read your book yet, but failure as a concept resonates deeply. Just before this, I was interviewing another guest and we talked about transitions, not just career changes, but life-changing events. In her case, two years ago, she survived a severe car accident that left her paralyzed.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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She shared how she endured the physical and mental pain, learned to walk again, rebuilt her coaching business, and even started a podcast within just two years. Coincidentally, your experiences also highlight how resilience and failure intertwine. I call this lifting human intelligence. That is the ability to reflect deeply on who we are and transform setbacks into meaningful insights.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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From a young age, Erin dreamed of becoming a talk show host. Why did she choose that path? And how did her journey lead her to combine improv and business? I told Erin, you are in the business of joy. But beyond joy, we also talked about failure. Erin calls herself a failfluencer. a blend of failure and influence.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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And while these three words like fill, learn, grow may sound simple on the surface. Developing that level of clarity through real experience is far from easy. What stands out is not just the lesson itself, but the process of sustaining pain, making sense of it, and transforming it into a systematic approach others can understand and apply

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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The pain itself is real and unfortunate, but it often opens doors to growth. As I told my other guest, failure, if managed well, can become one of the greatest opportunities for transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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Sure. I think that's a great way to wipe things up. I always discourage hard selling on this show. But this isn't about that. It's about sharing the lessons you've distilled from your real, sometimes painful, life experiences. Lessons that listeners can take away and apply right now. So as closing thought, could you share a method or approach from your work that anyone can try?

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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Some say practical, educational, not just inspirational, that could help listeners facing their own dilemmas, whether they're in career transition, dealing with personal challenges, or simply feeling stuck. What's one step or exercise they could use to figure themselves out and take that first step forward?

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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I would say definitely over 50. So should be between 80 to 90%.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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This two-part series dives into her unique approach to joy, failure, growth, and learning. No more waiting. Let's get started. I understand one of your key workshops focuses on failure, and you even coined the term Belfluencers, a blend of failure and influencers. I'd love to dive into this topic, but from a personal perspective, could you share your own experiences with failure?

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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This two-part series dives into her unique approach to joy, failure, growth, and learning. No more waiting. Let's get started. Welcome, Erin. Good morning to you. Where are you exactly?

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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I understand one of your key workshops focuses on failure, and you even coined the term Vellfluencers, a blend of failure and influencers. I'd love to dive into this topic, but from a personal perspective, could you share your own experiences with failure? Not so much the workshops you facilitate or the lessons you teach, but your personal journey.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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How you've dealt with, navigated, and grown from failure over time. If you like, feel free to share specific stories and give us an overview of your journey with failure. Either way works.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Erin Deal, founder and CEO of Improved, a company that uses improv to help teams grow and thrive. Like me, she's also a top podcast host.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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Tomorrow in part two, Erin will continue her story of failure. And she comes up with a magical way of navigating and rising above the failure experience. She called this method move on. Come back tomorrow and learn how to move on. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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You mentioned as a teenager, you were determined to become a talk show host. I find that intriguing. Honestly, most people in their teens or even in college don't really know what they want to do, let alone something as specific as hosting a talk show. I mean, when I tell people I set my sights on getting into business school and earning an MBA at age 15, they often say, seriously? At 15?

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#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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It seems so young to have such a focused goal. But back to you, why talk show host? I imagine some might dream of being a news anchor or getting into show business. But for you, what was it about talk show hosting that drew you in? Especially back then, before podcasts even existed, what was the story behind that ambition?

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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So you're essentially in the business of joy. That's it. The short form. not keynote speaker, not founder or CEO. If someone asks you for your elevator pitch, this should be the first sentence out of your mouth. Hey, I'm in the business of joy. Thank you, Vince. Yes. Let's say we're at a party. I introduce myself to you. Hey, I'm Vince. You reply, I'm Erin. Nice to meet you.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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Then I ask, what business are you in? And you hit me with, oh, I'm in the business of joy. Instant curiosity triggered. Naturally, I would say, oh, tell me more about that. is such a great icebreaker.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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So no problem quoting that. I'm in the business of Joyd, and hey, I got it on record now. I promise I won't charge you for copyright yet. But seriously, something else fascinating from history is your first client. You mentioned you tried things out with United Airlines, UA, and eventually they pay you and everything took off from there. So what was that initial experiment with United like?

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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What exactly did you do? I mean, Today, your business, Business Improv, is this successful franchise. But let's rewind to the beginning. What was iPhone 1.0 version of your business? What did it look like back then?

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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From a young age, Erin dreamed of becoming a talk show host. Why did she choose that path? And how did her journey lead her to combine improv and business? I told Erin, you are in the business of joy. But beyond joy, we also talked about failure. Erin calls herself a failfluencer. a blend of failure and influence.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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What are your key performance indicators? How do you measure success in your business? And just as importantly, how do you identify areas for improvement?

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#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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I aimed for a meaningful balance, enough for people to get diverse insights, but not so many that the feedback would become irrelevant. I felt 50 was just right, nor wouldn't have added value if the people were not as closely connected with me.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Superpower? First of all, most of them mentioned that I am a deep thinker. Words like logical, analytical, and persistent came up frequently. Once I decide to pursue something, They see me as unwavering in following in through. Interestingly, some offered perspectives I had not considered myself.

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#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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For example, Waverly Dorch, my former professor from Chicago, who is also my guest on the show in season two, if anyone is interested. She commented on my ability to do math and tell stories, which, in her words, is a rare combination. I took this as a positive compliment given her unique background. She is a Ph.D. in theater history.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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with an undergrad degree in computer science, combining both artistic and quantitative strengths in her teaching of entrepreneurship and business. Her lens on my skills was influenced by her own experience as someone who bridges the gap between art and science. One takeaway here is that the people you choose to ask for feedback come with their own perspectives.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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The insights into your strengths are inevitably influenced and limited by their backgrounds. That's why selecting a diverse group thoughtfully chosen for their varied experiences is key to gaining a well-rounded understanding of your superpowers.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Exactly. And that's the key point I want to emphasize. This is precisely why AI cannot replace the human touch. AI has incredible data capacity and can assist in generating a vast amount of content, but it lacks the nuanced understanding that comes from genuine human connection.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages. In the last two days, part one, part two, We've explored his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate stories and understand the connection between story and narrative.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Hallucination issues aside, even when it comes to reading emotions, we still don't have technology that truly reflects the depth of understanding needed. Some advancements are being made in emotion detection, But it's far from capturing the authentic experience of sitting across from someone, reading their body language, responding naturally, and engaging in a meaningful, unscripted conversation.

Chief Change Officer

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That's where the human element remains irreplaceable.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Chris, I really want to thank you for your time today. You've been incredibly generous, actually giving me a full 90 minutes of your time.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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We've also looked at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shared some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard or felt. He has also opened up about his own mental health challenges. Today, part three, he'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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I'll also be sharing my own experience with another exercise, highlighting both its challenges and insights. So let's dive into the final chapter of Chris' story. So for those listening who might not have direct access to professional guidance What can they do to craft and shape their own stories?

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Whether they are in career transition, facing personal challenges, or just feeling stuck, what would you suggest as essential steps for creating a story that truly resonates with who they are?

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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First, let me admit, the movie theater exercise is something I'll definitely want to try. Please do send me the worksheet. I can imagine that if I were in that theater alone, I would likely cry even though I'm not typically one to shed tears, not even happy ones. But picturing myself in that situation, not so much at retirement, but maybe at the end of my life, it would move me deeply.

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#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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As for the 360-degree feedback, I actually did a version of this a few years ago, not with just three to five people, but with about 50 people across different periods of my life. Some friends from 30 years ago, others from 20 or 10 years back, covering a range of relationships and contexts. I asked each of them to answer, what do you see as my superpower?

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#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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and to share words that came to mind when they thought of me. Each one responded with their unique insights, elaborating on their thoughts. I took notes on everything, gathered the data points, and even created a spreadsheet to track common themes. My Chicago training pushed me to analyze these patterns, and it was fascinating to see the traits that surfaced across the board.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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That exercise gave me meaningful clarity and reinforced aspects of myself I felt aligned with. It was incredibly helpful.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story. My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Another lesson I learned goes back to my days. as an MBA admissions interviewer. You mentioned input and output, and it got me thinking about how MBA and law programs and similar institutions often shape future alumni and leaders. It's not only about the narrative they tell, it's about how they select candidates.

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#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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They choose specific types of people with qualities that maximize the likelihood of success. That's why these schools can point to impressive alumni is by design. Why does this relate to the feedback exercise I did with my 50 friends? Because I was equally thoughtful about who I chose. First, I knew they would be willing to give me a solid 30 minutes of their time or even more.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Second, I selected those who knew me well enough, spending various parts of my life, some friendships going back 30 years, others from the last decade. I intentionally created a diverse pool to get a wide range of viewpoints. Additionally, these friends saw me in different roles and at different times, so they each had unique perspectives on my evolution.

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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After a year away from her consultancy, Erica returned with fresh purpose, balancing her career on a three-day work week, launching a podcast and expanding her reach to create a bigger impact. Today, part one, Erica shares her career journey, the twist and the turns and the accident that changed everything.

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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Those setbacks ended up leading to new insights, to new heights, knowing what I can and I cannot do, what I can accept, and what doesn't fit me at all. It helps me become laser-focused on what really works for me and what's worth pursuing. That clarity can be powerful, almost like a reckoning, and turn tough moments into real growth opportunities.

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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So I love hearing about how career transitions shaped you. And you also mentioned that you've been through personal events, life events that brought an other layer of challenge and insight. Would you mind sharing more about those experiences?

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm speaking with Erica Sosner, a fellow podcast host and the author of The Career Equation, who, like me, is passionate about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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Then in part two, airing tomorrow, she'll share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created and how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our careers. Good afternoon, Erica. Welcome to our show.

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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Just now, Erica shared her career journey, the twists, the turns and the accident that changed everything. Tomorrow in part two, she will share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter, shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created,

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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and tell us how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our career. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Thank you so much, friends. I'm delighted to be here. Erica is also a podcast host, and she covers careers. So does that make us competitors? I don't think so. I see it more like we are part of this big circle, a world where so many people are focused on their future, their life, and their career.

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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I think we are both contributing to something bigger by sharing insights, lessons, and experiences in a human, direct way. Hopefully this helps someone get inspired or maybe even get unstuck. So Erica, let's start with you. Tell us a bit about yourself, your story and your experience before we drill down into your insights.

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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Transitions, there's so many kinds. We often think of transition as just changing jobs, but it's more than that. It's not just jumping from Google to Microsoft in the same industry. Sometimes it's moving to a totally different industry or even changing countries, cities, and life itself. Erica, in your journey so far,

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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If I were to ask about how you've navigated and managed your own transitions, could you share a couple of stories, maybe one related to your own career and one to your personal life? I think it would give us a deeper understanding of your experience and why you are so well-equipped

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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But what makes Erica's story unique is her remarkable journey of resilience, purpose, and transformation in 2022 a life-changing accident left her paralyzed facing months of recovery through immense pain and uncertainty erica fought her way back back to walking back to work and back to a renewed mission.

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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I totally relate to your story. Before I launched this podcast, I also faced setbacks and failures. That took a lot of reflection to walk through. Like you said, it was devastating when it happened. But once I worked through those feelings, it became an opportunity to look inward, to be honest with yourself, and eventually grow out of it.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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And one of the tools to do that is money. Now that you've touched on retirement, there's another trend, the rise of financial influencers. These days, anyone can learn about finance and investments online anytime, anywhere. On one hand, these influencers help democratize financial information and make advice more accessible. But on the other hand, there are concerns.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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questions about their qualifications, the accuracy of their information, conflicts of interest, and the fact that some may lack formal financial education or ethical standards. Some may promote investments for personal gain without proper disclosure. With so much information out there, What's your take on this rising force of influencers?

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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And how would you advise listeners who are navigating through all this to make smarter decisions?

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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So if you have kids, care about your financial future, are looking after elderly family members, or are simply concerned about financial and family planning in general, join us and get inspired by Colin's journey in building wealth from scratch. This is part two of our two-part series on Colin and his golden rules of people-focused finance. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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I think the issue with financial influences is just one part of a larger problem. Ever since the internet became a part of our lives, we've had access to a flood of information. And now, with social media and various platforms, we all have to deal with misinformation and fake news. These influencers are just one group of influencers sharing information, but often it's not verifiable.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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This brings us to a major topic that has been discussed a lot lately in the media, which is developing critical thinking and independent thinking. These are skills we're supposed to learn in school and on the job. But with the rise of social media and some negative effects of technology, it seems like people are losing the art of thinking critically and independently.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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This brings me to our last and most important question. Let's go back to your roots as a family man. You are a father of three young kids, the next generation. With your knowledge of investment and diversification, you're already building a financial safety net for them, buying gold for them, securing the future. But beyond the wealth you're building,

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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there's the question of how they will make use of it as they grow up. That leads us to financial education and literacy, which I believe is lacking in today's society, especially for younger people. So as a professional investor who helps clients day in and day out, also as a father of three, How are you preparing your children for their financial future?

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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How do you nurture the ability to become critical thinkers, independent decision makers, and financial literate individuals so they can make informed decisions when the time comes?

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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So the desire for control often comes from a lack of trust and confidence in the system.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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That's actually one of the biggest lessons my mother shared with me back in high school. She never had the chance to go to college. She grew up poor and didn't get that opportunity. But she loves learning, and she makes sure I could learn as much as I wanted. She always tells me, focus on your learning because that's something no one can ever steal from you.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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When you think about it, stocks and bonds can lose value overnight. But then there's the argument that a degree doesn't hold the same importance anymore. That's a whole other conversation we could dive into in a different episode. But one thing is for sure, learning itself never goes out of style. Learning always has long-term value, no matter what. It's an investment that never depreciates.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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Yes, inflation, the common enemy we all face. But what other concerns should people be thinking about?

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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I used to work in Los Angeles for TCW Asset Management, where I managed billion-dollar funds for institutions alongside the bond king, Jeffrey Gundlach, focusing on bond and credit portfolios. Today, I'm meeting someone else from LA, but with a different angle on investment. Precious metals like gold and silver.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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You've mentioned the word retirement a few times now. Well, this podcast isn't specifically about retirement. A lot of what we discuss, like career change and navigating through this era of change and uncertainty, ties into that. Even the whole notion of retirement is evolving, with AI set to reshape many aspects of work and career development.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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the idea of what retirement looks like is shifting too. Now, for those who still have a stable job and income, would you say in preparing for whatever that version of retirement might be, Diversifying or investing in gold and precious metals could serve as a haste against income uncertainty. Have you worked with clients in this situation before? And what advice do you give them?

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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Our guest, Colin Plume, is here to talk about something often overlooked and undervalued. But don't worry, this isn't a sales pitch on buying gold or silver. Colin and I will dive into more personal topics, family, parenting, retirement, and the sense of control over personal finance, as well as financial education for future generations.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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That brings up another opportunity for a longer-term strategy, especially for people with continued income. It's definitely healthier, both physically and mentally, to stay sharp, to stay engaged, even part-time. Studies show that after a certain age, while exercise is crucial for physical health, keeping your brain active is just as important for mental and physical well-being.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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Earning extra income, even part-time, helps with that. And of course, some of that extra income could go towards investments, like you mentioned. But it's also about maintaining control. Control over your life, your mobility, and what you want to achieve before the final days. I think we all, at the end of the day, want to own our lives and have control over them.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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So if you have kids, care about your financial future, are looking after elderly family members, or are simply concerned about financial and family planning in general, join us and get inspired by Colin's journey in building wealth from scratch. This is part one of our two-part series on Colin and his golden rules of people-focused finance. Let's get started. Welcome to our show, Colin.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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So let's say I come to you with a chunk of money, and I'm considering buying gold or silver. Can you walk me through the process? You've mentioned things like acquisition, so I suppose after that comes storage. because obviously, I can't just keep it in my basement. Then, is there some kind of monitoring? Like, do you send reports on prices every month or so?

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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And at some point, I'll probably be concerned about liquidity. How easy, how cost-effective It is to sell when I'm ready to cash out.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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I can definitely see the appeal of control. If someone owns a gold bar and keeps it at home, they obviously have to figure out security. Not just a regular safe, but maybe something really sophisticated. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if some people still do what they did back in the day.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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Like in China, for example, keeping large amounts of cash, gold bars, and other valuables at home, even in the bedroom. It's that tangible feeling of having something you can physically hold on to. It's more tangible than even owning a house because a house, while you can see it, is tied to a bunch of paperwork, just like stocks, bonds, and funds.

Chief Change Officer

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Good morning.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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They are all backed by legal papers and financial systems. So I get why some people prefer to have something they can physically control right at their fingertips.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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Today, we are diving into a topic that's really important, not just in business, but also in every family, finance. And it's also right at the core of what you do. But before we get into that, let's start with you. Could you share a bit about your background, your career journey? and the story behind how you got to where you are today.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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So the desire for control often comes from a lack of trust and confidence in the system.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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Just now, Colin shared how he got into the gold business. and why investing in precious metals is timely, especially in this era of change and uncertainty. In part two, which will be released tomorrow, we'll dive deeper into the risks and opportunities in the precious metal market. Colin will also share his insights on financial influences

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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parenting, retirement, family wealth building, and financial education. Don't miss it. Come back and join us again tomorrow. See you. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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I used to work in Los Angeles for TCW Asset Management, where I managed billion-dollar funds for institutions alongside the bond king, Jeffrey Gundlach, focusing on bond and credit portfolios. Today, I'm meeting someone else from LA, but with a different angle on investment. Precious metals like gold and silver.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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Noble Gold, just the name, sounds like it's all about investing in gold and precious metals. I'll let you do the pitch. Why is now the right time? What is the opportunity in gold investing? But before we get into that, I want to ask you about your leadership style. while you're running an investment firm focused on financial products.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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I've heard that you're really a people-first leader, whether it's your clients, customers, or employees. Would you say that's an accurate way to describe your approach?

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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Our guest, Colin Plume, is here to talk about something often overlooked and undervalued. But don't worry, this isn't a sales pitch on buying gold or silver. Colin and I will dive into more personal topics, family, parenting, retirement, and the sense of control over personal finance, as well as financial education for future generations.

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#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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When we first met, I shared a bit about my own background in finance, which has been more on the traditional side By that, I mean I've worked with mainstream investment products like bonds and credit, and my focus has mostly been on big institutions. I haven't had much experience dealing directly with individual investors or in the precious metals space. So I'm curious, why precious metals?

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#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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I think this question has two parts. First, why did you choose to set up this firm focused on precious metals instead of other investment products? And second, when you are talking to your customers, why do you recommend precious metals? Why gold? Why silver? As viable investment options for them?

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Even hearing your childhood story today, I realized there are so many parallels to mine, especially that deep craving for learning and family expectation. I'm really glad we finally connected. Thank you again.

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#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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That's where we'll close this conversation. Adara shows us that ambition without filters isn't ambition. It's noise. When you pause before saying yes, when you focus on what moves you upward, you get closer to a career and life that actually fits. Microskills isn't about massive changes. It's about meaningful ones you can start today. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Let's look at your book, Micro Skills. Reason mentioned is partly a collection of articles you both wrote over time. But it's also a pretty substantial book, not a short one by any means. So I'm curious, who came up with the title? What was the thought process behind it? I imagine it ties into the kind of impact you hope to make with the book.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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But I'd love to hear your perspective on how the title came to be.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Dr. Adara Landry and I almost crossed paths years ago. While she was earning her master's in education at Harvard, I was seriously considering joining that same program, driven by my passion for learning and education technology.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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I say micro skills is surely more business friendly as a title. In today's world, especially in the business training and learning space, everyone's talking about skill-based learning. Some even argue degrees aren't as important anymore. So calling it micro skills really lends It's like saying, small actions, big impact, and people get it right away.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Now, when I first read the manuscript, and I told Reza this too, my first reaction was ambitious. Most business folks focus on one big idea and drill deep into it across eight or 10 chapters. That's the usual advice. Pick a niche, feel around it, But your book is broad. It covers networking, communication, mindset, and more. Honestly, I can already see 8 or 10 spin-off books from this one.

Chief Change Officer

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So I'm curious, why did you choose this all-in-one approach instead of zooming in on just one area?

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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I really see both of you as career doctors. When I started this show a year ago, I chose cautiously to position it under the career category while I've interviewed people from all walks of life. I realized there's a massive gap in real practical career education. And I'm not just talking about job search tips or resume writing. especially now with tools like ChatGPT. I mean the deep stuff.

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#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Insight, hindsight, and foresight. Real stories, real case studies, real learning, real human intelligence. Myself, I've been through top schools like Yale and Chicago Booth. Sure, there are career services, but honestly, what they offer today isn't that different from 20, 30 years ago.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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And for most people around the world, whether Gen Z, Millennial, Gen X, or older, there's little meaningful career guidance. Everyone is figuring it out on their own. So like you used a book, I used this show to reach people with unfiltered career conversations. That's why your book Micro Skills really resonated. It's ambitious, but that's exactly the kind of help people need.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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I didn't end up pursuing it, but I'm glad that they brought us together through our shared interest in upskilling, learning, and the book Microskills, which she co-authored with Dr. Risa Lewis, who joined me previously on the show. Dr. Landry is now a Harvard emergency medicine physician, educator, and co-author of Microskills. Madison was always in the picture.

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#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Now, I know we can't go into every chapter today, but if I gave you, say, five minutes to talk about one section of the book, the one that speaks to you the most, what would it be? Is it communication? Networking? Mentorship? What's that one skill or idea you think people really need to hear?

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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You brought up such an important point. And it ties perfectly to something I released some time ago. Episode 243 and 244 featuring Lisa Baudel, who helps teams at Google, Zoom, Amazon rethink how they work by focusing on simplicity. One of her core strategies is called Kill Stupid Rules.

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#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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It's all about eliminating what doesn't serve us, whether that's outdated processes in organizations or at the personal level, habits and obligations that burn us out. And honestly, that hit home for me. Years ago, I burned out in my job. Looking back, I know why. I said yes to everything. I thought that was ambition. I thought that was what you do in your 20s and 30s.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Her mother believed she had the hands for it. But it was two real-life emergencies that confirmed her path. In this two-part series, we talk about mentorship that actually works, why waiting to feel ready can backfire, and what it means to take ownership of your time and energy. Dr. Landry doesn't just talk about communication. She models it. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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But I learned the hard way that ambition without boundaries isn't sustainable. I dealt with mental health issues as a result. What saved me? Clarity. Learning to say no. Simplifying. And as you just said, it's not selfish, it's strategic. We only have a few minutes left. So let me ask you this. Is there anything I didn't ask you today that you really want to say?

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Maybe one or two final takeaways you want every listener or viewer to walk away with, even if they forget everything else.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Thank you so much, Adara. I wish we had more time. But I know you have a class to get to. And I definitely don't want to make you late. I really appreciate you taking the time today. Like I said, I hope we'll get another chance to talk again. Maybe not just about the book, but also about learning, growth, and all the experiences we share.

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One