Chief Change Officer
#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning
Fri, 14 Feb 2025
When two Vinces collide, expect more than just name confusion. Vince Chan welcomes Vince Jeong, CEO of Sparkwise, to share his journey—from moving to a new country at 12 to revolutionizing corporate learning. Vince J is on a mission to fix stale training programs and inject real human connection into the edtech space. What does that look like? Tune in for sharp insights, fresh ideas, and a game plan for the future of adult learning. Key Highlights of Our Interview: Immigrant Experience 101: Learning English and Rediscovering Myself at Age 12 Learning by Doing: The Best Way to Discover What You Really Want. Why Theorizing Only Gets You So Far. “I’ve often found that you can only really discover and learn your true preferences by gaining first-hand experience. Theorizing only gets you so far.” Bringing McKinsey’s Gold Standard to Everyone: The Spark Behind Creating an EdTech for Live Group Learning “At McKinsey, people fought to get onto training programs. It was interactive, engaging, and team-based. I thought that’s what corporate training looked like everywhere—until I saw the difference in other organizations.” From TV Host to Startup Boss: The Founder-Market Fit of Live Group Learning “Throughout my life, I’ve just been involved in a lot of things that involve live groups. I used to be on TV in Korea, hosting live shows and facilitating conversations.” Differentiation Value to Create: Scaling the Unscalable "What we're doing is we're taking that experience that today can only be accessed by really privileged settings and making it much more accessible to many more people through technology." Rebuilding Stronger Community: Foster Real Connections Beyond Social Media’s Shallow Bonds “We create an environment where people solve problems together that are realistic but fictitious, which helps them engage deeply without having to be vulnerable from the get-go.” Partners in Crime: Those Who Crave Rich Interactions or Scale Quality Learning at a Bargain Turning Idle Content into Action: Beating AI with Human-to-Human Engagement for Deeper Learning “There’s a lot of idle content out there today, and simply reading is rarely the best way for people to actually understand those concepts.” Connect with us: Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Vince Jeong ______________________ --Chief Change Officer-- Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself. Open a World of Deep Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives, Visionary Underdogs, Transformation Gurus & Bold Hearts. 6 Million+ All-Time Downloads. Reaching 80+ Countries Daily. Global Top 3% Podcast. Top 10 US Business. Top 1 US Careers. >>>100,000+ subscribers are outgrowing. Act Today.<<< --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.12 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>140,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: Who is Vince Jeong and what is his journey?
Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today got a double Vince episode. Yes, Vince Chan here hosting Vince John from New York City.
Like me, Vince is from Asia and moved to Canada and the States for living, studying and working. I resonate with a lot of his transitional experiences and we share one major thing in common. We are both obsessed with learning. We are passionate about the outcome of learning, the experience of it, and how to improve it, not just for ourselves, but for others as well.
I used to invest in education technology, and now Vince is building a new agtech solution. This episode is about transforming the learning experience and outcomes for everyone, both as individuals and as a community. If you care about elevating your career, work, and skills, stick with us. You won't regret it.
Welcome Vince. And thanks, Vince, for having me. It feels a little bit strange to be saying thank you, Vin. Awesome to be on it.
This is a very special episode. I've never had a guest with the same first name as mine. And you are the first. Groundbreaking, really. So, Vince, let's start with your story. Share your history and career path with us. Then we'll talk more about different aspects and elements of your experience. Let's begin by getting to know more about you.
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Chapter 2: How did Vince Jeong's immigrant experience shape his career?
Got it. Thank you. Yeah, so Today I'm an entrepreneur, but maybe I'll start from my origin. I was born in South Korea and I grew up there until I was 12. Then I immigrated to Canada and then I came to the US for college and then navigated to different parts of the world and came to where I am today. I would say there are a few things that have really marked my life.
The first thing is definitely the immigrant experience has been a really big component. Moving from South Korea to Canada when I didn't really speak much English at age 12, I think really forced me to really discover myself again at age 12 and really invest in learning and education as a way to adapt to a new environment.
The second thing that has really marked my experience is just post-education, going through a lot of different professional experience across consulting, international development in different countries, and just really learning what is it that I really care about, about the world, which for me, sort of the thread was people development, capability building, and talent development.
And so present day, I'm working on a startup that is an education technology company that helps people, so professionals learn together in group.
Chapter 3: What motivated Vince Jeong to pursue education technology?
SparkWise, that's your baby. But before we dive into SparkWise and all the exciting new initiatives, let's talk about your journey. You mentioned moving from Asia to Canada and United States. which is somewhat similar to my own experience. I moved from Hong Kong to Canada and studied in the United States.
While you studied engineering at Princeton, then you transitioned into public administration at Harvard, focusing on economic development and eventually moved to different parts of the world. What drove you to make those transitions? How did these experiences enrich your character? Or perhaps it was the other way around. Wasn't your character that drove all those moves?
Yeah, it's an interesting question. I would say the thing that comes to my mind is, so first of all, I've for a long time been on a quest to find what is it that truly motivates me intrinsically. And today I feel like I've found it, especially with the work I do in Sparkwise. But that journey was very long.
I think the part of the reason why it was a long journey is that growing up, I would characterize my young self as a people pleaser. Getting a lot of validation and enjoyment from things that others tell about me. And which means for a long time, I was very much driven by extrinsic things, whether it be compliments, like awards or prestige or things like that.
And I always felt like that wasn't the sort of the thing that really fulfilled me. And I was constantly looking for what is it, the thing that motivates me. So my winding sort of career path reflects that journey. Now, I would say There are maybe two things that guided my process. One of which actually comes from my background in engineering. So I studied in operations research.
And one of the things I learned in that discipline is that when you are trying to optimize a mathematical function under a lot of uncertainty, What you do is you actually double down on the areas of the function that you just have no data points on. So you actually gauge whether those parts of the functions are high value or not for you. So I apply that principle to my career, which means I...
When I first started undergrad, I went to McKinsey and that was honestly just me not knowing what I wanted to do at all. And McKinsey just sounded like a cool organization that everyone said was prestigious and good to work for. So I just went into it blind. But
Beyond that point, I was chasing things that I just hadn't experienced, where things were uncertain, so I can learn more about them and letting my intuition guide me. For instance, right after McKinsey, I went to Tanzania and worked at an NGO. I had an inkling that I cared about social impact, I had an inkling that maybe nonprofit could be a really interesting kind of organization to work for.
I obviously had no experience working in Africa. I had no experience really working as a project manager in an NGO. And it felt like an opportunity that was very far away from what I knew. And by going there, I would discover. After that, I went to a year in Tanzania. I realized I really like high impact work, but they didn't really like the
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Chapter 4: Why is group learning essential according to Vince Jeong?
I think a lot of times people spend a lot of time theorizing what might be good and then apply after theory. I think the other way around, I feel like you're better off
leading with experience and then distilling and creating mental models around yourself and defining your principles from actually putting yourself in situations where you feel the real constraints of realities and then you realize, okay, this is what I really care about versus this. I don't really care about this.
And for me, that's the reason why I was jumping into these very different environments. And from that, learn what is it that I really care about.
And as I mentioned earlier, briefly, through all these experiences, I learned the thing that I always thought about and found enjoyment in was doing things around people development, talent development, thinking about how do you unlock people's potential and so on. And once I got enough of those data points across settings,
I knew or felt that was the area I had to focus on if I were to dedicate a decade of my life building a venture. And hence, today I'm building an education technology business.
So as I was listening, it seems like you have a scientist's mindset. You're intrigued by things you don't fully understand, but you're drawn to them. Your way of finding out more is to dive deep, collect data points, and explore. You might start with a hypothesis, but as you gather more data, you either debunk or validate your initial theories.
continuously refining your understanding until you reach a point where you discover your true passion. Would you say that's a fair summary of your experience?
Yeah, I would say I would agree with like 80-90% of what you share. The only thing I would say is I think oftentimes when you think about the scientific mindset, the one caveat is people then often spend a lot of time like creating the underlying theory on which your hypothesis is formed. And then you go into the idea of validating in a very scientific way.
Whereas I think for me, especially when it comes to career, one, I think it's hard to be that scientific. And two, I think if you overthink about what is this theory underlying my preferences, I'm not sure if it's that helpful. So I agree with most of it, except I would say I'm a scientist that theorizes less when it comes to careers, I would say.
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Chapter 5: What is the inspiration behind SparkWise's live group learning?
A few episodes ago, I talked to one of my guests, who was actually my former professor at Chicago Booth. We themed her series Love and Logic. She studied computer science as an undergrad. but went on to earn her master's and PhD in theater history, a unique blend of art and science.
Later, she taught entrepreneurship at the business school Chicago Booth, which made for a fascinating life experience. We discussed the balance between love and logic. As you shared your journey with me, I see a similar blend of art and science in your approach. I always believed that career development is a form of craftsmanship.
Some people overanalyze and calculate every step, while others are more free spirited and go with the flow. But ultimately, it's about finding that balance between art and science, feeling our way and figuring things out as we go.
Yeah, that resonates with me.
You mentioned agtech, education technology, as your focus. When I first got involved in the agtech space, and I still am, I was particularly active on the investment side. Every time I met an entrepreneur from any part of the world, my first question was always, why are you founding an ag tech company? The reason I ask is that when it comes to education technology, passion is crucial.
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Chapter 6: How did Vince Jeong's past roles prepare him for SparkWise?
Of course, you need to be smart and have the business acumen, the head, but the heart has to be there too. I found that in education technology, that fire inside your heart is essential. Especially in those days, venture valuations for other types of tech like fintech or blockchain were much higher, while agtech was relatively lower. That's why I really care about the why behind the work.
What kind of impact do you want to make? And do you truly mean it when you say impact? So back to you, my question isn't just about why agtech, but also out of all the issues and opportunities in the learning space, why did you decide to focus specifically on live group learning?
A couple of things. So in terms of why group learning, which I guess for people's context, SparkWise is a platform that really scales live group learning where professionals come together. They'll be real time video solving problems. They are practicing judgment. They are giving each other feedback and they're really growing together and building skills together.
And there are two things that I would say that really underpin this approach. One is, I mentioned I started my career at McKinsey, and then I spent my time in a lot of different organizations across all sectors, partly through work through McKinsey and then work through the international development stuff I did everywhere.
One thing I really appreciate about McKinsey and consulting was that they invest a lot of resources into developing their people because people are truly their core asset. And it's a place where people fight to get onto training programs. And that's the first thing I experienced. So I just thought that was actually what training looked like in corporates. I thought, so they put you into teams.
So you work together, it's super interactive and it's really engaging. And I thought that's what training was until I saw how different training felt like in other organizations that just don't have the resources to invest at that level and at the scale that McKinsey was. And so and a lot of making the training that I really loved was in this live group format.
So part of the motivation is that's in my mind what really great looked like. And I wanted to build a way to really scale that approach. And then coincidentally, their pedagogy is quite similar to Harvard Business School does case studies. And there's a lot of similar adult learning principle underpinnings. And also I think it's quite research path in the way that how people learn.
The second thing I would say that made me want to start this is I felt like there was a really strong founder market fit when it comes to like my unique abilities or what I thought are my unique abilities that could help. build this product. So throughout my life, I've just been involved in a lot of things that involve live groups.
So when I was in Korea, I used to be on TV and I hosted a lot of live TV shows. So I was often a show host where I had to facilitate conversations. Then I, throughout my life in school, would often play some sort of a role in class, whether it be class president or social chair. So I was often again facilitating a lot of experiences for people.
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