Chief Change Officer
#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two
Thu, 30 Jan 2025
Chris Hare has helped big-name executives tell better stories. But today, the tables have turned—he’s the one sharing his story, and I get to ask the tough questions. In this three-part series, we break it down step by step: • Part 1: Corporate storytelling—how businesses craft messages that actually work (and when they don’t). • Part 2: The power of personal storytelling—Chris opens up about his own experiences and the most memorable stories he’s heard. • Part 3: Storytelling in action—Chris shares tools to help us develop our own narratives, and I put myself through the process (with a slight risk of emotional breakdown). If you’ve ever wondered how storytelling can shape careers, businesses, and even personal growth, you won’t want to miss this. Key Highlights of Our Interview: Rewriting Your Inner Cassette Tape “I find it helpful and more visceral to think about our personal narratives as a cassette tape—a tape that’s playing in our head that we’re constantly writing, rewriting, and adjusting.” Building One Authentic Narrative Across Multiple Worlds “A serial CEO I worked with wanted one narrative that connected his private equity, board roles, and yoga community. The result was an authentic narrative rooted in his true self that could be lensed across different audiences.” Proximity Blinds Us to Our Own Stories "We’re so close to our own narrative and stories that we don’t see the broader picture… if you’re building with Lego, you might not see that there’s a gigantic pile of Lego behind you." Changing the Inputs to Shift the Narrative and Change the Outcome “If you continue to put in the same inputs, things likely won’t change… One of the positive inputs I changed was I got into fly fishing, and that was part of changing those inputs to shift not only the narrative but the outcomes.” The Power of Raw Storytelling "Our stories are not always the really clean, really curated story that makes us look good, but that raw story that has the power to shift the future." Connect with us: Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Chris Hare --Chief Change Officer-- Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself. Open a World of Deep Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives, Visionary Underdogs, Transformation Gurus & Bold Hearts. 6 Million+ All-Time Downloads. Reaching 80+ Countries Daily. Global Top 3% Podcast. Top 10 US Business. Top 1 US Careers. >>>100,000+ subscribers are outgrowing. Act Today.<<< --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.18 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1.5% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>170,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: What is the focus of today's episode?
Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories.
Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist.
I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story. My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements.
In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages. Yesterday in part one, we explored his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate story and understand the connection between story and narrative. Today in part two, We'll look at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shares some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard.
He will also open up about his own mental health challenge. Then in part three, He'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry. I'll also be sharing my own experience with another exercise. highlighting both its challenges and insights.
So let's dive into the second chapter of Chris' story. So far, we've covered a lot about narrative and storytelling in a business context. But as you mentioned earlier, Narrative can also play a powerful role at an individual level for leaders, for people in career transitions, or even entrepreneurs building a new venture.
My next question naturally is, how do we apply narrative and story to individual situations? Could you walk us through some examples to help illustrate this?
I found it, and the young people listening might need to go to Wikipedia and look up what a cassette is. But I find it helpful and more visceral to think about narrative and our personal narratives as a cassette tape, a tape that's playing in our head. We're constantly writing and rewriting that and adjusting that.
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Chapter 2: How can personal narratives be restructured?
This is the future I'm creating, or this is what's happening in the present, or this is what happened in the past. And we fuel that with stories. So I'll give you a few different practical examples. So one, I have this one CEO that I work with. He's a serial CEO and board member. And Chicago MBA. You can go Chicago. I know you're a fan. Chicago MBA, McKinsey consultant.
When he came to me, he said, it was, how do I, I have one narrative that I use with private equity, another that I use with venture capital. Another that I use with board roles when I'm interviewing. And then I've got my hippie yoga community and my nonprofit work. And what I want is one narrative.
So yes, on the business side, how do I attract more board opportunities without me having to pursue them? How do they come to me? So that was the outcome that he wanted. And I've...
become wise enough to know that I guarantee a process and I guarantee deliverables, but I won't guarantee an outcome because I've seen over and over that these narrative shifts that neither one of us could predict often almost always happen, right?
Chapter 3: What are some examples of authentic storytelling?
So with him, when we were done, his narrative, he now has one narrative and an authentic narrative at the core of who he is that came out of his yoga practice, but it can now be used and lensed across each of those different audiences. So now it's an authentic narrative that he can use when he's with his yoga community.
But when he's talking to Goldman Sachs about a business they just acquired, he has that narrative lens. And then he has stories from his experience to support that narrative lens. There's a CEO that I just recently finished working with. And I thought this was going to be my first ever failure. And so this is somebody who has a remarkable story. It's like it could be a movie easily.
They were miserable in their role and they were sick of telling the story and said, Chris, I want a new story. I want you to help me create a new story. And I want to exit my company. And it was fascinating. So in terms of my process, we do future visioning, but not just talking and thinking about it, feeling it. So I put them in that space in the future where they feel that.
And then they're also feeling the choices that they've made across their career, good and bad. Because my goal is not to burnish their reputation or that's not my initial goal is to pull out all of the realities of what happened and how that impacts them, how that makes them feel for better or worse.
And then we do storytelling across their lifespan, going all the way back to when they were a little kid. And I look for patterns and energy there. So I'd done those two steps with this client and it wasn't succeeding. And I thought, okay, this is going to be my first ever failure. And then we did the third part of my framework, which I call Atomic 360.
And there interviewed people who knew this CEO for, in some cases, decades. So this executive team, his employees, his friends who had known him and seen him for a long time, other CEOs, board members, etc., And I still can't believe what happened.
Like when he heard the impact that he had on these people's lives and how he changed the way that they see the world, changed the way that they run their businesses, et cetera. It literally changed everything for him almost overnight to the point where he went from completely miserable. I'm going to sell my company too. I'm going to stay in this company until I retire.
I'm teaching myself my new narrative every single day, and I'm learning to be content and happy where I'm at. He's now expanding to other geos, which will at least double his multiple when he exits. But the thing for him was... And this was a bit scary to say this to someone, but I said, I'm not going to give you a new external narrative. You don't need that.
You have all these extraordinary stories across your life. So those atomic stories are the fuel. And the way that you synthesize those was amazing. Like I'm not going to be happy in these roles or I'm never going to be happy. I have to go to the next thing to find that happiness.
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Chapter 4: How do blind spots affect personal storytelling?
That brought him so much joy. The only thing that brought him more joy is when the next rain would come and wreck it again and he got to do it all over again. And so that's what I showed him. It was that's the pattern for his entire life that he's followed over and over again. And he goes into these chaotic situations and he's this calming, peaceful presence.
And he knows how to get that creek flowing the right way in a way that brings life and peace and better financial outcomes. So that creek became core to what his narrative was. So for him, that's grounding and centering, and that's a story that he can tell. But then also you have to pull it all the way through to the business outcomes that it drives. So it's okay, great.
We have this really compelling and emotional narrative, but now how do we pull it down into the pillars of his business and the outcomes that his customers want to drive? But again, that was a story that he told and never saw it from that perspective. And not realizing that is a part of, that flows through him. It's a part of who he is now.
Over the years, you've worked with so many people and have seen firsthand how they tell the stories and craft the narratives. So what's the worst story you've ever heard?
Yes, there's a lot of bad ones out there, but I think I'll pick on myself. And for this part gets a bit from a really challenging part of my journey. So in 2015, when I worked at Amazon, my mental health was in a really bad place and I nearly took my life.
What was interesting in retrospect is there was something that happened to me and I remember going to work the next day and believing that I was stuck. in the situation that I was this, I won't go into the situation, but I was stuck in this situation.
And there were some days where I was commuting up to three hours round trip in the dark, in the rain, in the Seattle, the terrible Seattle weather that we have. And I was in this place where I was stuck. It felt stuck in this job. I felt stuck in my car. I had chronic pain and I had a terrible situation at work. And so what happened is I would repeat over and over again.
I started to repeat, I'm stuck. I'm stuck. I'm stuck. And I would do this for hours every week. And it became a mantra. You talk about the power of a mantra. Usually it's a positive mantra. This was a negative mantra. So I would repeat that. So that story was the thing that happened to me that precipitated this. And there were a bunch of other stories.
And that tape that played in my head, that narrative was, I'm stuck. And then one day, tragically, I saw I drove past a car of a gentleman who had just died in an accident. And all of a sudden, so that was a story. All of a sudden, my narrative internally became not I'm stuck. It became I'm going to die. And so I would repeat that narrative over and over again.
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Chapter 5: What is the significance of raw storytelling?
to create a shift, to shock you out of your way of thinking at times, give you a vision of a new possible future. So for me, a part of my narrative was also very much blaming other people. Now, to be fair, I had a terrible manager.
I had a lot that had happened across the course of my life, but I had taken all of that and said, I would claim that I took responsibility for my life, but I would blame others for the things that happened to me. I had to get to a place and in 2020, my marriage almost ended. My wife and I are now back together.
But to get through that, I had to completely rewrite my narrative and go from blaming others to taking responsibility and shifting so that to view a different future. My wife and I, for quite a long season, would actually say, we found it helpful to actually voice, and I would encourage listeners to do this as well, voice what the narrative is.
So in our case, it was, here's the narrative of what I'm believing about you in this moment, or I'm believing about this situation. I know it's not true based on this new future that we're creating, but this is what I'm feeling and believing at this moment. It really is, how do you create new inputs?
And so if you're in a place where you move into, whether we're talking business situation or personally with mental health, if you continue to put in the same inputs, things likely won't change for you. But for me, one of the positive inputs that I changed was I got into fly fishing. And so that put me in the energy of the river.
It put me in all the movement and all the creativity that goes into that, all the analyzing the river and trying to figure out where the fish is, but mostly just for me being in nature, right? That was a part of changing those inputs so that I could shift the, not only the narrative, but the, the outcomes of that narrative.
Absolutely. The quality of the output is directly tied to the quality of what you put in. The better the input, the more authentic and accurate the outcome. That makes perfect sense. Now, let's lighten things up a bit. You've told me about the worst story you've ever heard. Let's flip the script. What is the best story you've come across so far?
Yeah, so I'll reframe the question slightly to the best story I've ever felt. And to set that up, actually, I want to, before I get there, you talked about the fact of your very rational approach. And I love the perspectives that someone who's wired like you versus someone who's wired like me, because I can definitely be more on the other side of the spectrum. And how do we integrate those?
But Herminia Barra tells this story about a CEO that she coached. And this woman went from being, she was an engineer and she was elevated into CEO. Things were not going well with her team. She was driving the board crazy and was just incredibly rational. And so one of the board members said, coached her and said, you need to be more human. Try telling a story. And her response was very angry.
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Chapter 6: How can past experiences shape future narratives?
And then I thought, no, you need to tell him. And then I thought, okay, let's not him. And I heard him talk and I'm like, yeah, it's definitely him. So I go over and I thank him for his music and chickened out and shook my hand. And then again, the voice inside said, no, you need to tell him your story. So classic Chris, the way that I say things to create some drama.
I started out and I said, I never liked your music. And the look was pretty funny. But I have a story to tell you. And I proceeded to tell him the story that I just told you. It was this unbelievable moment. He just gave me this huge hug and it was like electricity went through my body.
And it was this crazy full circle moment where you go all the way back to 2015 and my manager telling this story, and then you go back to 1991. And Eddie Vedder telling this story through his song. And then here we are in 2023. And this guy who wrote this song that he sang back in 1991 is giving me a hug. And it's like healing running through my body.
what I tell people on my podcast, what I tell clients, what I tell other people is that's the power of storytelling is that when we tell our stories, yes, it can change our companies. Yes, it can change the world, but it also changes us.
We have to tell our stories and not always the really clean, really curated story that makes us look good, but that raw story that has the power to shift the future.
I love what you said about real, real stories, about the struggles, the pains, the real journeys that people experience. And I totally agree. And that's exactly what I do on this show. Authentic stories resonate deeply because they reflect the full spectrum of life, not just the highlights.
So for those listening who might not have direct access to professional guidance, what can they do to craft and shape their own stories? Whether they are in career transition, facing personal challenges, or just feeling stuck, what would you suggest? as essential steps for creating a story that truly resonates with who they are.
Yeah, so there's two very practical tools that I recommend. And if it's helpful, I can share a worksheet with you that walks through these that you could share with your guests. But the first exercise is what I call the movie theater. And so then I have people visualize that movie that plays is actually not the blockbuster. It's actually your life playing.
And your career, not just your career, but your entire life. And one scene after the next play. And the good, but also the bad. The people that you brought with you, the people you left behind, etc.
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