Chief Change Officer
#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two
Sat, 5 Apr 2025
Robert MacPhee didn’t start out teaching values—he started out parking cars. But somewhere between the valet stand and becoming Jack Canfield’s right-hand man (yes, that Chicken Soup guy), Robert found his lane. Now the author of Living a Values-Based Life, he’s guiding people to stop driving in circles and finally align their actions with what truly matters.In our 2-part series, we dig into the real reason so many of us struggle to name our core values (spoiler: it’s not because we’re lazy—it’s because no one ever taught us how). Robert also breaks down why clarity is the unsung hero of decision-making, and why living out of sync with your values is like following GPS directions with the volume on mute.Part Two. Key Highlights of Our Interviews:Why It’s So Hard to Define Our Own Values“Most people’s initial list of values often reflects what they think others want to hear. We’re so conditioned to impress others or meet external expectations that it’s challenging to pause and ask: What truly matters to me? The real magic begins when we strip away external noise and align with our authentic priorities.”How a Values-Based Life Can Improve Work“Clarity about values doesn’t just make personal life better—it’s transformative for work too. Aligning your actions with priorities like contribution or integrity can help you show up fully, even in challenging moments. That alignment makes work feel purposeful instead of draining.”Do Values Change Over Time? The Short Answer: Yes.“Values aren’t set in stone—they evolve with life stages and circumstances. For instance, what mattered to you in high school may be worlds apart from what tops your list in your sixties or seventies. Life experiences, like becoming a parent or caring for aging loved ones, naturally shift our focus, making values an ongoing conversation, not a one-time declaration.”Keeping Values Visible“The importance of keeping your values front and center can’t be overstated. Whether on your phone, bathroom mirror, or bedside table, revisiting your values regularly keeps them aligned with your current life stage. A daily reminder to reflect, re-anchor, and adjust ensures your values stay relevant.”Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Robert MacPhee --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.12 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>140,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: How did Robert MacPhee's journey lead to values-based living?
Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few years ago, I joined a growing venture as the chief people officer. It lasted just six weeks.
To that CEO, I may have seemed incompetent, but I knew exactly why I had to leave so quickly. It was a major clash of values. I believe in being true and ethical in both words and deeds, while he thrived on a man-made facade of showmanship and hypocrisy. Knowing my values made the decision clear. This experience ties directly to today's guest. Robert Mercier.
He's the author of Living a Values-Based Life and the creator of the leadership model called Excellent Decisions. In this two-part series, we'll dive into what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. We'll also explore how to make our values visible and sustainable in a world that's constantly changing.
If you feel stuck in your current workplace, it's not necessarily your fault. Often, it's just a misalignment of values. Don't bend your values to fit in. Instead, find a place and a tribe whose values resonate with yours. That's where true happiness and success lie. Let's dive in. My follow-up question is about what happens after we identify our values.
Even if we genuinely figure out and believe in them, whatever those values are, like honesty, humanity, the next step is the hardest, practicing them consistently. How do you advise your clients to implement their values in daily life? For businesses, this could be challenging, but equally difficult for individuals. Even with the best intentions, staying mindful and consistent isn't easy.
How do you suggest we monitor and sustain our actions to align with our values? Talk is cheap. I believe talk and talk and walk the walk matters when it comes to implementation of values. If I were your client asking, we've identified my values. What do I do next? How would you guide me?
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Chapter 2: Why is clarity crucial in decision-making?
I'm so glad you brought that up because without that approach, without saying, how do we apply this? How do we put this into action? How do we implement it? It's all really just an interesting conversation. And you brought up a really good point. Sometimes people can get caught up in the words that really sound good and will make a good impression on someone else.
When people are first doing this work, We live in a world where we're trying to impress other people and make other people happy so much of the time. Sometimes it's a really big stretch for people to really be honest with themselves and say what really is. Aside from what anyone else might think. What is really most important to me? And for most people, that takes a period of time.
Their first list might reflect what sounds good to other people. That's just normal. That's just the world we live in. But where the rubber really hits the road, where this really makes a difference in people's lives, is when we start to apply it. And this is one of the beautiful things.
This is one of the reasons why I think our values-based life approach, where we are taking values and dividing them into these two categories, why it's so useful is because it's actually pretty easy to apply. Once we have these two lists, we can literally look at those lists and in any moment we can self-assess how we're doing
Chapter 3: How can we implement our values consistently in daily life?
in the areas or the qualities and characteristics that are on that list. For instance, again, myself, I can look at my list of priorities and say, okay, I have declared that my relationship with my children is number one on my list. How am I doing? How are my relationships with my children? How's the communication? How much time am I spending with them? Do they know?
Do they really know that I love them unconditionally? Do they know that I'm here to support them in any way I possibly can? And I'm really blessed because I can ask those questions and We'd have to double check with them to be 100% sure, but I'm very confident that the quality of those relationships that I have with my children is really good.
I put the time and attention into that because I know it's always on the top of that list when I look at it. And I'll go right down the list and I'll say,
contribution is second on my list how is that going and honestly that's an area i'm putting more time and attention in because this values work i feel like can be such a huge contribution to individuals to organizations to the world if just imagine if more people What if everyone was really clear about what their highest values were?
Imagine how that would change just like the political discourse for starters. Like what a difference that would make if people were coming from a place and acting from a place of real clarity about their highest values. So again, we can look at our priorities and say, How do I want to shift my time and attention to create more of the results and more of the experiences that I want?
And the same thing with the ways of being. I can look at my list and I can say, I've said that it's my intention to be really humble. How am I doing with that? Am I being Mr. Know-it-all? I have all the answers and telling everyone else what they should do? That doesn't sound very humble.
Or am I really showing up in my relationships with other people and listening and asking questions and being curious and genuinely wanting to support? then I'm doing pretty good. I can literally look at all the items on my list of highest values and I can self-assess. And we actually, we use a process in our work called the four A's as an implementation process. And it starts with this assessment.
And the second A is area. It's assessing or choosing an area to focus on. Like I told you with my priorities, I might choose contribution as an area to focus on. I say, I want to make a bigger contribution. What actions can I take? There's that third A. That's the next thing we're going to look at and say, what is an action I can take?
What are multiple actions that I can take that will allow me to make an even bigger contribution? Because making a contribution is really important to me. And then the fourth A is accountability. Because it's one thing if I say that I'm going to take an action to make an even bigger contribution.
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Chapter 4: Do values change over time with new experiences and perspectives?
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I think the simplest way for anyone who's listening to this conversation and thinking about their own values and what they might be, you can think back to an earlier time in your life. I'm in my 60s. I can think all the way back to college or high school. And what was important to me at that time in my life has changed. So, it's just, it's situational to some degree.
And I think as my life progresses and I get into my 70s or my 80s and I'm retiring and the things that are most important to me, some might change and some might not, but they're definitely not fixed. I had a fascinating conversation with someone this week who I had just talked to about this whole values conversation about two months previous.
And I was catching up with her and she was telling me a story about how her mother is not well. Her mother had a fall and was requiring quite a bit of attention and care and help. And so this had become a big priority for her.
so literally just a couple of months ago it wouldn't have even been part of the conversation about what her highest values were but in all of a sudden that got changed like the world situations the circumstances the events that were happening in her world forced her to alter her values to alter where it was most important for her to put time and attention
So her family and her relationships were probably already on her list, but that specific relationship and caring for her mother and making sure her mother had the care that she needed had been bumped right up to the top of the list because of the specific situation and circumstances that were happening for her.
So just in terms of navigating through our life from one stage to another, when we're single, our values might be different than when we get married. When we're in school, our values might be different than when we get a job and we start our career. If we have a job and then we decide we want to be an entrepreneur, our values might change. So that's a long answer.
I probably could have just said, yes, values change. But those are some examples of all the situations and circumstances and just stages of life. That would lead to values changing and explains why this is an ongoing conversation. I would love to say that someone could read my book and declare their values and those will be their values for the rest of their life.
But it's really a case of one of the things I spend the most time doing is encouraging people to keep their list of values in front of them, keep them visible.
have it on your phone have it on your bedside table have it on the bathroom mirror whatever it is but have it somewhere so you keep revisiting that list i actually have mine in my phone and i have a daily alarm that goes off reminding me to just take five minutes take a breath relax go in revisit those values re-anchor into them remember them and in some cases say you know what
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