Chief Change Officer
#245 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part One
Thu, 20 Mar 2025
Leadership advice is everywhere, but Todd Davis has spent 30 years at FranklinCovey actually proving what works. As the former Chief People Officer, he didn’t just teach leadership—he lived it. From recruiting and training top talent to coaching CEOs, Todd has seen the best and worst of workplace culture. And in case you’re wondering—yes, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People still apply (maybe now more than ever).In Part 1, Todd shares how he accidentally landed at FranklinCovey, built a career around leadership and trust, and why most organizations completely misunderstand what it means to be “effective.” If you’ve ever been in a job where meetings multiply, work feels chaotic, and leaders seem out of touch, this episode is your guide to what actually works.Key Highlights of Our Interview:From Recruiting to the C-Suite – “I was just hiring people. Then suddenly, I was leading them.” How Todd built a 30-year career at FranklinCovey without a roadmap.The Secret to Long-Term Career Growth – “I didn’t hop around jobs. I stayed put and made an impact.” Why depth beats breadth when it comes to leadership growth.The 7 Habits Still Work—Here’s Why – “They’re not business tactics. They’re human principles.” Why Covey’s habits still drive success decades later.What’s Wrong With Workplaces Today? – “People don’t hate work. They hate how work is designed.” The biggest reasons employees feel drained—and how leaders can fix it.The #1 Leadership Skill People Get Wrong – “Most leaders think they’re clear. They’re not.” How poor communication destroys trust in organizations.______________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guests: Todd Davis______________________--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.10 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.130,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today. --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.12 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>140,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: Who is Todd Davis and what is his role at FranklinCovey?
My guest is Todd Davis, former chief people officer at Franklin Covey, a properly listed leadership training company. Todd is the expert behind the bestseller, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and I spent 30 years coaching leaders and managers on how to actually work well with people. In this two-part series, we get into the real stuff.
Why most leaders think they are clear in communicating and giving instructions, but they aren't. How trust is built like a bank account. and why human intelligence is still the biggest competitive advantage. Oh, there's a wild story about these seven habits changing someone's life in the prison. Let's dive right in. Todd, good afternoon. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.
Thank you, Vince. Really appreciate your invitation.
Todd Davis is from Franklin Covey, a name that's practically a household brand in the U.S. When it comes to leadership training, Franklin Covey is like Starbucks. Everyone knows it. At some point, almost everyone has either read one of the books or attended one of the trainings through the employers.
And of course, one of the best-selling books in history is The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. Honestly, who doesn't want to be more effective? But let's be real. Workplaces today are facing big challenges. So I want Todd to join me and talk about how these habits can help solve or at least alleviate some of these issues.
Now, Todd, before we get into the book, I always ask my guests about their own journey, the transitions they've made, the paths they've taken. But your story is different. You've been with Franklin Covey over 30 years. You are truly a loyalist. Tell us about your journey. What led you to Franklin Covey? What kept you there for three decades? And how the role has evolved over the years?
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Chapter 2: How did Todd Davis start his journey at FranklinCovey?
Then we'll dive deeper into the book and its impact.
Thank you. Thank you so much. So, yes, I have been with FranklinCovey for almost three decades. Prior to that, I worked in the medical industry for about 10 years, and I was a recruiter. I recruited physicians and other medical personnel to staff hospitals and to staff clinics for a couple of organizations here in the western United States where I live. and did that for about 10 years.
And then some friends of mine, they decided to form their own outsourcing company for human resource functions, for people functions. And so they had an attorney to handle employment law and they had a benefits person. And they asked me, because I had been in recruiting for so long, to join them and recruit for these various companies. And so organizations would contract with our group
provide these human resource services instead of hiring those kind of people inside their firm so we would contract with companies to provide those services and what was then called the Covey Leadership Center it was before Covey had merged with Franklin they were one of our clients and so they contracted with us and I was involved in finding their consultants to ironically to do what I do now finding their sales people and different things like that
And I had read The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People about a year before I started working, being a contractor for them. And I was blown away by the content and how it was helping me already change my life. And this was 30 years ago. And so I loved being a contractor for them. And then they said... that they wanted to bring recruitment in house. They wanted to hire a recruiter.
So I see my hat in the ring and interviewed and was selected. So I started my journey with FranklinCovey as their recruitment manager. And then if I'm going too long, you tell me to speed it up. But I worked as a recruitment manager. And then I had in a previous life, I had worked as a content developer, putting together training programs.
So after I recruited for Covey for a while, we merged with Franklin Quest. Franklin Quest in the US here was the time management company. They have the Franklin Day Planner. And everybody over here in the US had these day planners. They were very famous for that. And Covey Leadership Center, as you mentioned, was famous for the seven habits.
And so we merged those companies and I went to work for their innovations department where we developed our training, different training solutions. And I did that for several years. And then the CEO at that time came to me, this would be about 20 years ago now, came to me and said, we would like you to apply for the chief people officer role. The person that was in that role had left.
And I said, that's great, but I don't have any human resource experience. I had recruited, but I didn't know anything about labor laws or employee relations or any of that. And he said, I know that, but you're really good with people. That's what he said. You're really good with people. So I applied for it and along with some other candidates and I was selected.
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Chapter 3: What are the challenges in today's workplace and how can they be addressed?
And so for the last year and a half, almost two years, I've been a full-time consultant where I go out and deliver our training. I do keynotes. I do podcasts, things like we're doing today. So that was probably a long-winded answer to your short question, but that's been my journey.
Unlike your job, unlike your current job, your current role, if you guys are hiring again, let me know. I'll send you my resume.
It'd be amazing. You and I have had a couple of calls now, and I find you so fascinating. You understand human nature so well. You'd be really great at this, Vince. We have international partners. We're a global company. We've been in the leadership space for four decades, 40 years.
And so, as you said, here in the US, we say this with humility, but we're touted as the most trusted leadership organization because we've been in the space for so long. But we have offices all around the world and we have licensee partners that also cover Hong Kong and China. And so anyway, yeah, let's for sure talk about that after.
Thank you. Now, you spend most of your career in the people function, serving as chief people officer for a long time. and even before and after that, staying deeply involved in people-focused roles. So while your title hasn't changed much, you've seen workplace challenges evolve over the years, both as the insider leading teams and as an outsider coaching and consulting with organizations.
That brings me to a natural question. what have you observed we can go a day without hearing about workplace issues such as downsizing burnout culture shifts every headline has something about the future of work from your perspective what's happening and why do you think the seven habits is not just still relevant but maybe even more critical today and in the years to come.
Thank you. That's a great setup and so many important topics you capture in that. So when Dr. Stephen R. Covey, who is the author of The 7 Habits, when he first wrote The 7 Habits 35 years ago, what he did prior to that is all of his research was around effectiveness, like you said up front. And we define effectiveness.
People think of effectiveness as getting a lot of things done or being successful or whatever. We define effectiveness as getting things done, but not just anything, getting the right things done, the things that move you forward, the things that move your organization forward, your team forward.
And not just once, but how do we get results today in a way that allows us to get even better results over and over again in the future? So that was the organizations and the people he studied, people that seemed to be able to do that. And then he identified the principles that were at work with these people doing that. And he put them into a format.
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Chapter 4: Why are The 7 Habits still relevant in modern leadership?
And principles, as we know, were as true a million years ago as they will be a million years from now. They don't change. Now, the application changes, the way we put them to work changes in this ever-changing world. But the principles themselves don't ever change. And so this book is timeless.
And I have found in my space, in the people space, if I remember these principles and I treat others in a principle-centered way, we can solve things. We can move forward. We can get past issues and help everyone move forward and progress. That's been my experience.
The Seventh Habits, the latest version is a revised edition of the original. What's new? What's been updated? And why was now the right time for a refresh?
Yeah, great question. So it's been out 35 years. The book has, the book is, there might be a forward that's updated. There might be, but the principles haven't changed. The habits themselves haven't changed. We don't really rewrite the book, but about every eight to 10 years, we have a work session that goes along with the book. We have many work sessions.
We have 29, 30 different work sessions in different areas of business. But the seven habits is our foundational piece. And the work session that is about two full days worth of content. And that can be taught consecutively. That can be taught spread out. There's an on-demand. You can self-paced. That changes.
We update that about every eight to 10 years because the application and how we put these practices or these principles to work change. And so that's what we have just launched. And what has changed in this most recent version? We just continually make them more practical, more applicable, more inclusive.
When I say simplify, anyone who's read The Seven Habits, it is a firehose of powerful information. And sometimes people just don't know where to start. They understand it all, but they don't know how to apply it.
And so this latest version, we've made it very, I don't want to say simplified, but very practical so that I can go through the course and I can start applying these principles tomorrow or tonight in my personal relationships and certainly in my professional relationships. Could you give us one example? You bet.
I'm happy to walk through all the habits, but let me just tell you, habit one is very foundational. It's habit one for a reason. It's called be proactive. And it's based on the principle of choice. The principle being that while there is so much you and I cannot influence or change, we can choose our response to any situation.
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Chapter 5: What updates have been made to The 7 Habits book?
But a proactive response, we have to separate stimulus from response and decide how we want to respond. What's the most effective way? That's the first practice. The second practice is to work within what we call our circle of influence versus our circle of concern. We can be concerned with everything going on in the world and problems at work and policies and things like that. But
Staying within that circle of concern actually shrinks our circle of influence. Effective people, they recognize these things that we're concerned about, but then they go into the inner circle and say, what can I do about this? Where can I start to make an impact or live differently? And then the third thing we talk about, the third practice, just in Habit 1, is using proactive language.
And the science shows that it's not just talk positively and things will happen. It actually programs our brain. The positive language Proactive language opens up the creative portions of our brain and the synapses in our brain to come up with more solutions versus reactive language shuts down that creativity. There's an activity we do to get to your question. There's an activity.
One of the activities we do there is people. write a sentence, I may not be able to, and then they fill in the blank, but I can, and then they fill in that blank. So for example, I may have been in my role for a long time at my organization, and I love the organization, but I'm tired of my role. In that activity, they would put, I may not be able to change my role,
But I can look at other opportunities within the company to, you know, change up what I'm doing every day. So it's training people how to actually use proactive language. I don't know if that's responsive, but that's... You've got seven habits.
And honestly, if we were going to do this properly, I would dedicate seven episodes, one for each habit. Because it's not just about the principles, it's about the practice. And with all the clients you've coached over the years, I'm sure you've seen some incredible stories of transformation. Is there one that stands out? Maybe a client who really struggled with one of the habits.
Maybe they had their own reasons, their own roadblocks. But with your guidance, they were able to untangle themselves from that situation and fully embrace and practice the habit. Have you come across a case like that?
Absolutely. And I could. Yeah. And I know we only have an hour, but I and so I won't take all that time. But two things came to mind just now when you asked that, Vince. The first, this happened many years ago. We got a letter at Franklin Covey from a man who was in prison. He was incarcerated in prison. I don't know what crime he'd committed, but he had been in prison for about 20 years.
And he wrote our company a letter and he said, I want you to know the seven habits of highly affected people has changed my life. It was in their prison library, and he picked it out, didn't know anything about it. And he said, as I started reading this, I looked back over my life, and I could see areas where I could have made a different choice.
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Chapter 6: How can Habit 1: Be Proactive, transform personal and professional life?
And so the point here is that as human beings, whether I live in the U.S., whether I live in Hong Kong, wherever, we have a tendency to listen to others with the intent to reply. Right. We're listening to someone and we may not be talking over them. We may be eye contact and nodding. But in our minds, we're already formulating what we want to say next. And it doesn't come from a bad place.
We're helpers. We're fixers. We want to solve the problem. And so we hear just enough of what the other person is saying that we think, oh, I know how to solve this. Or I know what I've dealt with this before. I know what their problem is. And instead of continuing to listen to them, our mind is already working on the solution.
And again, those aren't bad, but people who are truly effective, those leaders who are truly effective, they, I love the word suspend. I'm assuming it translates the same, but suspend is to not give up on, but to put aside for a minute, my thoughts, my feelings, my response, and truly hear the other person. as much as I can, put myself in their place.
And I found a lot of people, they hesitate to do that because they think, gosh, if Vince is talking and I'm totally listening, they're going to think I'm agreeing with them. And people don't. If you just listen, you're not agreeing or disagreeing. You're just listening with the intent to truly understand. not to reply.
That is one of the most effective tools any human being, certainly leaders, but can do. I'll bet you have people in your life, Vince, that are like that. They don't judge. They're not advising or probing. They're just listening to understand. And yes, they may say something like, so when you say that frustrates you, tell me a little bit more about that. They're totally in your space.
It is one of the most effective habits we can develop.
I guess in today's terms, they call this active listening, or listening with curiosity, right? The reality is, some people don't listen at all anymore, thanks to social media. Technology has trained people to communicate in a one-way street, just saying what they want to say, without any real interest in what others think. If they get a comment they don't like, they just delete it.
Oh, this is hostile. I don't like it. But back to your point about real listening. Listening without judgment, without forming a response in your head while the other person is speaking. It's about being present, really hearing what someone is saying, stepping into their shoe. Maybe they're sharing a tough experience. Instead of immediately thinking, oh, how would I handle this?
Or what advice should I give? It's about sitting with that story, feeling what they are expressing. And in a business setting that's even harder, we are trained to analyze, to problem solve. Someone speaks, and we instantly jump to, oh, here's what you should do. But what you are saying is we should hold back.
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