Chief Change Officer
#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two
Thu, 28 Nov 2024
Part Two. Welcome to a special three-part series with Colin Savage. we’ll dive into Colin’s fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin’s career spans continents, cultures, and industries—seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations. From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he’s mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. Here, we’ll explore the learning required for transformation—why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future. And finally, we’ll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up—this one’s a ride! Key Highlight of Our Interview: The Kung Fu Panda Approach to Change “Wise, measured, and reflective—the best change leaders channel their inner ‘Kung Fu Panda turtle.’ Fewer words, deeper thought, and a collective approach to charting the path forward. Because real insight comes when you listen more than you speak.” Why Collective Decisions Matter “Making life-altering changes isn’t a solo act. Consulting with those affected—be it family, colleagues, or friends—adds invaluable perspectives. Ignoring this step risks blind spots and unanticipated challenges that could have been addressed earlier.” Lifelong Learning: The Good, the Bad, and the Outdated “While lifelong learning emphasizes constant self-improvement, it often lacks focus. Simply chasing degrees, certifications, or skills without purpose can lead to a disjointed portfolio of knowledge. The real magic happens when learning is intentional and builds toward expertise.” Skill Stacking as a Career Superpower “Focused learning that combines seemingly unrelated skills can redefine your career trajectory. It’s not just about learning for the sake of it—it’s about intentionally connecting knowledge areas to create a broader, more adaptable toolkit for the future.” _________________________ Connect with us: Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Colin Savage Chief Change Officer: Make Change Ambitiously. Experiential Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives Global Top 3% Podcast on Listen Notes World's #1 Career Podcast on Apple Top 1: US, CA, MX, IE, HU, AT, CH, FI, JP 2 Millions+ Downloads 50+ Countries --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.18 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1.5% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>170,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: What is Colin Savage's journey as a change addict?
Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.
In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries, seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations.
From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.
From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skills decking is the future.
And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up, this one is a ride. Like you said, one of the threats running through your experience is change, and strategy You've worked with so many firms and organizations, guiding them through their transformations, so you must have seen countless business cases unfold.
What have you learned from these consulting projects and organization change initiatives that could apply to individual situations? Are there lessons from these business cases that also resonate on a personal level? especially when we face dilemmas or crossroads in our own lives.
One example is going to be a bit of a surprise to people because they will have read, potentially, how traditional this country is. And this is Japan. So I lived in Japan, as I mentioned, for quite a long time. And with a job in a flight insurance company, we're in Japan. Brazil, we're seeing something that's a bit unique. In Japan, one of the largest minorities and they are people who
travel to Japan as youth. They have access to visas and other things, and they start their working life in Japan. So they're actually indoctrinated. They learn working culture from being in Japanese companies, a lot of them, and otherwise. They learn things like, hey, life insurance is important. You need to have it. The discussion went, how are we going to go build this business idea? And
What came about was I learned that change, individual, team, and otherwise, comes from doing a lot of promotion. So Japan is a lot about individual conversations to get support or get direction. Big organizations are great at providing that direction, but often indirectly. You have to be acute to the change. So, hey, why don't we consider this? Why don't we do that?
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Chapter 2: How can collective decisions enhance personal change?
So learn to take the, the interest and the novelty and the energy that comes from a potential change and have it, you will huge due to the really important steps, fundamental steps to maybe make that change happen. And the flip side would be actually back here in Canada. I worked for a quite traditional marketing company. Probably if I tell you who it is, people will know right away.
They brought me in as a change person. That's how I was recruited. Please come here. We know our industry is on the decline. We're not really entirely sure where to go with it. We've seen what you did in other places. We're eager to change. We want a chance where they use all the right words. They were very receptive to the idea before I moved in-house.
I got in there and I asked, do you want me to be disruptive? Would you like me to push new initiatives? Absolutely, if this is what we want. And within a month of me doing that, we don't really like it. or that was a little too much. The reality is they were a different kind of ad.
They were hooked on a legacy of very high revenue and high profit margin, and they weren't willing, they really weren't willing, and they hadn't done the time to figure out, do we want to change? Are we willing to forego some of that to potentially make it somewhere else, or maybe not?
And even though they had all of the support, allegedly support from people above and their ownership and others, they were incredibly reluctant to do it. So I was sitting in a role where change was in my title, but I couldn't do anything. And I had tried, I had built up goodwill. I'd got some champion. I was doing everything that change management tells you to do.
Pushing the needle here, scaling your time here. And for the time period that I was there, they were wholly unwilling to take it on. And at a certain point I had, you know what, it isn't going to work for me. I'm pushing the rock. I'm ill as whatever the Greek myth do. And I'm not getting anywhere. And I'm being told two different stories.
So we dig into it, which might have really been like an external push from other people. So we don't want to do it. And it ended up being a failure for myself. And it's something that I'd taken on and I accept. I learned a lot of really good lessons from it. And frankly, had some work with the wonderful people that were driven to do it. But when the entire organization has been dictated change,
and not really trusting of the person who's supposed to pilot it, then it's not going to happen. But in this instance, it's a little bit about, it's maybe less about the change addict thing, but learning of that change guru, if that's a good word, or change guide, which is, all right, maybe we need to take a step back and figure out what is your definition of change? Is it collectively the same?
Do we all think this is a good idea? OK, maybe we need to tailor it a little more. And then move on from there. And that's hopefully where I am now and how I actually go about it a little bit more. There's a little bit less, less put on the gas, more. Let's put the car in park for a second and let's have a talk. We'll drive a block down the road and then we're going to have another talk.
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Chapter 3: What is the difference between lifelong learning and skill stacking?
And that way we can get to the kind of, again, change that we're all trying to achieve. And back to that definition of six steps. Not to keep that directed by the outside or financial reasons only. The whole way that we're going to evolve and change for the better.
I can totally relate to your Canadian example. I've had a similar experience myself. We can chat more about it offline. But eventually, it led to me leaving that company. If I think about it in a more personal context, like within a family, change isn't just about one person. It's a group decision that can lead to challenges too. For example,
When I used to help younger professionals plan their MBA career paths, many of them would ask me, Vince, should I apply to this school or that school? Should I study in this city or another city? Often, these decisions weren't just about them. They were married, so the decision had to include their spouse. My answer to them was, this isn't just about you. What does your husband or wife think?
Have you discussed whether it will mean long distance for two years? Will they move with you? If they do, will they be able to work? If not, what happens then? That's where the tension often starts. One partner wants to change, but the other doesn't, or they see the change differently. It creates conflict, and that's not unlike what happens in a business setting.
One stakeholder might push for a big transformation, while others hesitate or resist because their interpretation of change is different. So yes, I think that dynamic applies across contexts, personal or professional.
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Chapter 4: How can cultural perspectives influence change initiatives?
My neck is hurting from how much I'm nodding, for your example, because one of the reasons and one of the benefits that I've had and the partner that I'm with, and she's actually been my sage. She's been my guide. The example that you with somebody from China, one of you an MBA, they're married, what are they gonna do? I have basically dragged my partner and then our kids around the world.
It was only until sort of the last one or two times that I realized I need to sit down and I need to talk to her. I need to ask her, what are you, what do you think about it? Not just me moving for a job and... to be the traditional one at the time, but not anymore, but the breadwinner for Hubli. She has been the one that said, okay, so we're moving. All right, where are we moving?
And then hit the ground running. And it was only later on the last couple of times that I've asked them, I'm concerned about this, or I'm not sure how that's going to work, or what are we going to do in this instance? And a lot of the things she's done is really ground ground. why we were going to go and move somewhere, why we were going to make a significant change in our lives.
To your example, I'm going to take it on, and then everything's going to be hunky-dory, and we're all going to be happy. But they didn't know that they could voice it. And so now it's more like a collective. So now we're sitting around in Canada and we're thinking, so what's the next step?
And my first step now is to go and talk to my two teenage sons and my wife and say, hey guys, what do you think about this? And the reality is, whatever our age is and wherever our life has taken us, They'll come up with questions and problems and scenarios or that's a challenge, that's difficult. And you've got to be a little bit more soul searching to figure out, is this really right for me?
Is this really what should happen? And if it doesn't, how is it going to go and how can I deal with it as and where it goes?
Actually, you have so many degrees that people often ask me, Vince, are you collecting degrees? I usually laugh it off and say, no, I have three. And I took each one very seriously. I don't even bother explaining why I pursued two MBAs anymore. But looking at you, Colin, you have even more. Would you consider yourself a lifelong learner? I imagine you have some strong opinions on that term.
A lot of people lean on lifelong learning when they are at the crossroads or want to make a change in their lives. They fall back on education, upskilling, retooling, whatever the buzzword of the day might be. But you've shared some interesting ideas with me about skill stacking and how that might offer a more impactful approach. So what do you think of lifelong learning as a concept?
How do you see it evolving and where does skill stacking fit into the equation?
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Chapter 5: What are the challenges of implementing change in traditional organizations?
So that's it from a very early age, I'd look up at a wall and I'd see lots of people with paper and very nice brain. Oh, what are those? Well, that's my degree in education. So that was the first. And then the second one was, and this came more from, from a grandparent who actually didn't have a lot of education.
He would relay to us as little kids all the time, you know what, like somebody can, they can take away your house, they can take away your possessions, they can take away your money, they can take away your family, they can take your health, they can do all that kind of stuff. The only thing that they cannot take away from you is your education. And so I still believe that.
I still believe that's very true. And so anyway, from a long, from my early age with those kind of two things, It was education is important, right? And you should constantly be learning, right? And I don't, I didn't know at the time that, yeah, I constantly be learning. Now it's related to keeping technology and technological advances and things like generative AI that I'm now studying.
It was more like you just should keep learning all the time. My parents were very flexible and it didn't really matter what. But it was important that it was with somebody who knows it, so there was an expert. And at the end, there was going to be some kind of written comment. There was going to be a degree, a diploma, letters behind your name, whatever it is. So that's lifelong learning.
For me, there's continually learning from established institutions, programs, gathering up the diploma and other things. And really, the area doesn't matter. Lifelong learning, learn whatever. But lifelong learning is, I think it's an outdated concept and particularly because it just lacks spoken. I may be an example of that.
And that's where I studied English literature, I studied philosophy, I studied liberal art. Then I went to Japan and then I did a master's degree in modern Japanese literature. Okay, there's a little bit of a connection there with literature, but different cultures, different languages. Then I go to the UK and I do a master's degree in social anthropology in South D.C. Learning Burmese.
I lived in lots of countries, so that's where the cultures, the people come from. I can back up again in hindsight, I can connect them, but they didn't really have a focus on building expertise. They were disjointed variety of individual level or understanding and mastery of skills and discipline. And then I had to actually build pathways to connect them.
And one of the pathways that helped me do that was doing an MBA at Durham in the UK. And so I connected intersectional anthropology, I connected multi-generational stuff, and I connected performance management for business to figure out a metric to understand how to support multi-generational organizations with different levels of performance management and guidance. But it wasn't purposeful.
Fast forward a few years. Now we're into the pandemic. I'm living here in Canada. I'm sitting like most of us were in our own little home offices. I'm going through things like LinkedIn learning in other places. And I'm noticing connectivity between, hey, what if I learn...
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Chapter 6: How do personal relationships affect career decisions?
how to be better at doing online presentation and whatnot from the short course, then I can use the skills that I learned as a lecturer to maybe coach it in-house in my company. So everybody will be better at sitting in virtual meetings. Hey, there's this new performance management tool online because we're all living remotely, so we're worried about efficiency and all of those kind of things.
How could I learn the technology behind it to maybe adapt it so we can add it to the practices we have in comp that are still a little bit traditional? Paper big. building and building and building. So what happened was, I'm not entirely sure that stacking is the right word. I think it's more like staircase.
And you've got overlapped half or a little bit more, but then you branch off into new areas. But you're constantly building it up. And now to round off my comment, now I'm learning for the last two years generative AI and I've learned large language model development. I've learned prop engineering, all those kind of things.
But now that's actually connecting back in like almost reverse skills tracking with clear thought and clear writing. If you're not a good writer and you're not good at generating good writing, good step-by-step way to do something to build the proper prong, it can't do what you want. It doesn't deliver what you would like.
And so you'll spend extra time tweaking it and tailoring it to finally get to what you would like. But if you were good at writing, which comes from spending a lot of time in literature, And you're good at research, which helps you figure out the steps to be able to get the result you'd like.
Combining those and learning how and understanding how a generative AI particular and prompt engineering, the skill that you need to do it, you're stacking those or you're staircasing all of those. And you're going to be able to generate way better results in generative AI and other things.
And more importantly, even with people being able to guide them through a process, you're going to get the results that's there, which is better for everyone. Hopefully that's not a too roundabout way to get there.
But I think, yeah, now lifelong learning is an outdated concept and then it lacks focus for some people where the skill stacking is a little more concentrated and it will help you really build that piece. But again, it's not going to be specific in an area, but you can apply it across
swath of area, and it'll really help you advance your career and advance whatever you want to do to be a standout kind of person.
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Chapter 7: What role does continuous learning play in personal growth?
The methods vary, but the goal is the same, which is to keep growing, to keep learning. When it comes to skill stacking, I see it as something deeper. you mentioned is about purposefully merging diverse skills to solve complex challenges, and I think you're right. What's often missing isn't the means to learn. We have more access than ever to tools, training, and knowledge.
The gap lies in connecting the dots. between those skills and leveraging them in meaningful ways to multiply the impact. In my view, we are living in a tool economy, tool, T-O-O-L. Everything is about the tool, whether it's ChatGPT today, Google yesterday, or whatever the next hot thing will be. The mindset is, If you have a problem, there's a tool for that. Need a solution?
Just grab a hammer, a screwdriver. What is the problem? Most of the time, those tools are just solving service-level symptoms, not addressing the deeper underlying issues. It's like putting a Band-Aid on a cup without treating the infection. Sure, the immediate problem looks solved, but the root cause persists, and people end up repeating the same mistakes.
I see this pattern a lot, especially among knowledge workers. They buy into the idea of lifelong learning, sign up for courses, pay for certifications, and stack up all these skills. but they don't actually go anywhere with them. Why?
Because the key isn't just acquiring skills, it's in connecting them, applying them to real-life scenarios, case by case, and solving problems with them in an integrated manner. So the missing piece is less about technical skills and more about human skills, What most people call solved skills. Problem solving, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, communication.
These are the connective tissue that make skills stacking impactful. Without them, you're just collecting tools in a toolbox. You don't know how to use effectively. That's where I think the future of lifelong learning needs to focus. Not just teaching new skills, but on helping people build the connections between them and apply them in meaningful, impactful ways.
It's not about the tools themselves. It's about what you build with them.
I agree. Yeah, you have brought the other hand that I'm not going to say that I forgot. But what I would add to what you're saying and weight the court in the skill stacking, I differentiate between calling the person and calling the professional all the time. So skill stacking, those are skills stacked for my future.
Calling the person, that's where lifelong learning for me exists and always will. And so I'm very clear on what's the differentiator. Because what you can do is if you're people like us or those listening that are like us, if you've got a whole crazy...
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