Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
Wed, 26 Mar 2025
If your brain just short-circuited at the phrase “Brain Summit at the Super Bowl,” you’re not alone. In Part 2, Nicole dives into the backstory of Generosity WINS, the book she co-authored with Monty Wood—and how they turned a business idea into a human story with real voices, a fictional lead, and zero fluff. Spoiler: there’s a QR code in the book that leads you to the actual humans behind the wisdom.This episode is part research, part heart, and all human. If you’ve ever doubted whether generosity can be a strategy, Nicole will change your mind.Key Highlights of Our Interview:ROI of Generosity? – “You can’t measure karma with a spreadsheet.” But Nicole explains why generosity still pays back—in time, trust, and unexpected career breaks.Behind the Book – How a business fable with real people became a new kind of leadership playbook.Meet Emily (She’s Fictional) – Why a made-up hotel manager ties it all together, and what hospitality has to do with generosity.Can You Teach Generosity? – Nicole’s answer will surprise you—and it involves boys’ schools and grief.The Brain Summit at the Super Bowl – Concussions, jazz, neuroscience, and 5,000 of their “closest friends”—how Nicole built a brain health movement in America’s loudest weekend._________________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Dr. Nicole F. Roberts --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.12 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>140,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: Who is Dr. Nicole F. Roberts and what is her journey?
Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the No Strict Lines journey of Nicole Roberts.
Nicole is a doctor of public health, co-authoring a business book called Generosity Wins with a seasoned CEO, Monty Wood, who happens to be one of our guests on the show. Nicole once posed her PhD to start a human rights firm. Just to give you a sense of how things go, in this two-part series, we talk about what happens when you let purpose guide your work instead of a perfect plan.
We get into the science behind generosity, how real human stories shaped her book, and why the best leaders know when to ditch the rulebook. And she also helps run a brain summit every year during the Super Bowl. So this conversation goes places. Let's jump in.
Now, going back to your book, Generosity Wins, what brought you in the very first place to write something like this and with Monty as your co-author?
Chapter 2: What inspired Nicole to write 'Generosity Wins'?
So I had always wanted to write a book and not for the sake of writing a book. It's because I just I had ideas. I've actually outlined, I think, three books at this point, like full outlines. And I took one of them. So I've written health care for Forbes. Maybe like 14 years now. I feel like that really ages me back. I've written for Forbes for a very long time.
And it started with Forbes because they launched a book line. And of course, they started with some of their longest running writers who they had written columns and columns. And so, you know, would you be interested in writing a book? Here's our book line. Here's what we're going to do. And so I submitted my first big idea to them and they were very helpful, helped with my first outline.
We started the process and I was told then, No one buys healthcare books. And it's true. The data validates that. People will buy books that are like longevity, right? Because it's a bit more in the self-help category. But books on actual like healthcare, how to fix the system, our social determinants of health. No, people are not interested.
And so I had always wanted to do it, but I had, I won't say I got rejected because we now live in a space where you can self-publish, you can pay to play, right? Like you can pay and someone will publish for you. I could have pushed it forward, but I just thought if there's not an appetite for it, why spend time and money?
Chapter 3: How did Nicole and Monty Wood collaborate on the book?
I really, especially because I was in graduate school, didn't have to force something. It just didn't feel right. And then... I had this wonderful experience where actually one of those people that I had known from the Forbes world was no longer there. They were working for a different publisher. And they reached out and said, there's someone I really want you to meet. He's writing a book.
He's thinking about a co-author because he wants someone who has a different perspective. And he said, I'm going to put a few people in front of him. And he probably said this to everybody, but he said, I'm going to put a few people in front of him that I know, but I think you're one. I think you two just would work so well together.
And he said, I know you're deeply passionate about what he wants to do. And that was it. He said, can I just make an introduction and set up a Zoom call? And I said, OK. But I had no idea what I wanted to do. What does that mean? And I met Monty Wood and Monty. He had me not at hello, but about five minutes and he had me. And he had this premise for a book that he was calling Attract Success.
I don't know if he told you this part. I actually intentionally, I was going to listen to his episode. And then I thought, no, I don't want to because I don't want to be biased. But he had this book idea. It was called Attract Success. But his premise was when you put good out into the world, when you are generous, particularly because he is a business expert.
Monty is the go-to guy and mentor for business. But that when you genuinely hear about and give of yourself to your voice, colleagues, to your teams, to your family, to people, they will give back to you. And what they will give back to you will propel your success, whether it's in the business or it's in your family life. And so the premise for him was to attract success, to be successful.
You actually have to give. And that was the key. To receive, you must give and you should give first and freely of yourself. It can't be transactional. Otherwise, it's not really giving. Yeah. And so he had me, right, at that premise. I'm like, absolutely. And I said, there's plenty of science to back this up.
I said, what you're not going to be able to find that I know of is real literature and data to show the ROI. You can't show in data points. You can't show karma. Yep. And so I say, this is a really tough thing to think about from a science perspective. And I slept on it. We talked. And then it hit me that I needed to stop thinking about all these different things.
I was like, public health is what I know. And, you know, neuroscience. And so I took this different lens and I said, someone we have to talk to is named Beth. And I told them all about Beth. And I said, she's the person I would go to ask a bunch of these neuroscience questions about. It's not just job, career, business. It starts in here. When we give, what happens?
We know the dopamine, the oxytocin, you get like a runner's pie, like those sorts of things. But then that cascade event, because it actually improves your health. People who are truly generous have marriages that last longer, right? Like... They're literally healthier and happier. The Harvard study is almost 100 years old now. The happiness study, it shows consistently, right?
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Chapter 4: What makes 'Generosity Wins' unique as a business fable?
So why don't we use the real people? And it's an easy read. In fact, I've had multiple people tell me they knocked it out in two days. Like they'd started on a plane and then they'd finish the next day because it's a story. It's a story about a woman named Emily and she thinks things are great in her career. They're not going. She thought it's a hard lesson, but she sent on this sort of
work mission and along the way she is tasked with interviewing people and she then discovers what like her real purpose is and anyway I won't give away the ending so it's an easy read but every person that Emily meets along the way is a real person and what we did is we added a QR code at the end of each chapter so you can it literally takes you to their LinkedIn page so you can actually find
Talk to all the people who are in our book. It's a little longer than 50 chapters, but 12 interviews. I had actually played around as well with the idea that there are 12 months in the year. Maybe we do like a curriculum and each month is grounded in one person's... Because we have a neuroscientist, a behavioral scientist. We have an educator. We have a philanthropist.
The people we interview, we chose them specifically because they are... The most, I really can't underscore this, they are the most thoughtful, talented, generous individuals. Some we knew before, which is why we said, oh, I know, right? I know the neuroscientists we need to talk to. Monty said, I know the philanthropists we need to talk to. Others were brought to us.
Others we went out seeking because I treated it, again, Monty and I approached it very differently. In the end, I treated it like my dissertation. I had a whiteboard and I had a spreadsheet and I had every chapter's name and I had chosen one or two themes that I thought were so unique to that interview. Things that no one else said or did. And then I had things that everyone said or did.
And so earlier I used the word karma. Every interview, people used, I think only one or two people actually used the word karma, but they used a synonym. of like how things come back to you, the ripple effect of like people. And so that I knew we were really onto something there.
And so that would then send me on the next sort of iteration of my quest, which is if every person, people who do not know each other, people who are all wildly successful in their very different definitions of success and lives all say these same five things. I need to learn more about those five things. Let's dig into those things.
And so for me, even laying out the interview process, because we wanted Emily to grow and learn. And so it was that part I also found fun because we had sticky notes and we were moving them around. Well, she meets this person. Wouldn't it be fun if she then got to take that lesson and go talk to so-and-so? And yeah, that part, even now thinking about it, like it brings a smile to my face.
I really enjoyed that creative part of how do we tell this story through a young woman's eyes as she's learning and growing and at times feeling really disappointed and let down. And that was, it was a very fun way to do the book. I think are very, very happy with the outcome. And the number of people who reach out, send emails, they've brought me to tears.
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Chapter 5: Can generosity have a measurable impact in business?
Anyway, it was just this whole email. I was just in tears. And he was like, it's because every day I've decided to just say thank you. It's a small act, but I just stop one person and say, thank you for doing this. Thank you for doing that. And he said it led to some wonderful relationships. And he now feels like he knows everybody in the hospital and he knows about them and their children.
And it's just, he said his life is better.
Let me say this. When I interviewed Monty, he shared a lot from his business background. his work with some major players, real tech titans. And he said things like, Vince, I saw them literally do this, build that. You could really feel impact through his stories. What stood out was how he brought a business lens to everything.
And now, with you bringing in the science angle, I think the two of you really complement each other. Since Monty had that business focus, and I come from a business background too, having studied at Chicago Booth, I naturally asked him about something really specific, the ROI of generosity.
Love it.
Ever since I first learned the term ROI, it was in a finance class, of course. We did all the usual calculations. But generosity, that isn't something you can plug into a formula. You can't always measure it. Or maybe you can somehow monitor it in a different way. That's why when Monty brought it up, this idea of generosity having a ripple effect, it really landed for me.
Honestly, I buy that concept. I've seen it play out in my own life and career. Doing things with no expectation, and then somehow more opportunities, more trust, more value come back around. So I definitely believe in it, but putting it into a business context, trying to tie generosity to metrics, that's where it gets tricky. I asked Monty about it directly.
If ROI is what we track in business, how do you track or even explain the ROI of generosity? You are not coming from a business world, but you know how strong this concept is in business. How do you think about measuring or recognizing the return on generosity?
That's a great question, by the way. And I love when people do ask us the same question because this gets to what we started the conversation about, which is you'll never get the same answer.
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Chapter 6: How is generosity redefined beyond financial giving?
And as humans, we know when something is transactional. Our BS meter can be hit and miss sometimes, but for the most part, we inherently know when someone is being authentic or genuine. And we know when someone is listening because they care about us versus I'm going to listen to you for a minute and then I need you to do this for me. I'm only doing this because I want something from you.
We know when people aren't being authentic and we don't engage in the same way. We don't build trust. Trust and relationships come from being generous, even if it's as simple as listening, giving someone your time, giving them your energy. And so I just wanted to bring up that definition, but it also brings me to that ROI. What I have found is...
And we heard this from a lot of people that we interviewed, and I've heard it from a lot of people since, but again, in different ways. Everyone has different examples. But when you truly invest in others, their successes become your successes. Their work ethic, their relationships, the relationship you have with them, all these things grow. I can tell you in my experience of There's work.
There's one particular example that comes to mind immediately, but I won't use names, but I knew someone very not well at all. And it was a husband and wife and they were older. And there were things that I did and volunteered and said yes to that were a giant pain in the butt. But I felt like it was the right thing to do. And I Worked well past what I should have.
And I really thought like nothing came of it. And I was like, that's okay. I want to say five or six years later, one of them reached out and said, hey, there's an opportunity. And we recall not only the way that you stepped up and gave of yourself when you were needed and it wasn't expected, but we've also through LinkedIn or what, like we've monitored your career.
We've been so impressed by this and this. And when someone told us about this opportunity, you were the first person we thought of to recommend. Would you be open to that? And it led to the next thing. It opened this door that I didn't even know existed. But it was because I put good out. And it was honest and I didn't expect anything. I thought it was a complete waste of time.
Not a waste of time, but you know what I'm saying? Like in terms of... Yeah, yeah. There was no tangible ROI. There was no, I did this, I got this in return. I was compensated in this way. I was... But what it did is it... put what we call a spirit, like a spirit of generosity. And I tried to live that way before we even defined it in the book. And I have found that it does come back.
It comes back in ways you don't expect. You cannot measure it with, I gave $5, so I expect $10 back. It may look like volunteering for something, but And a job opportunity comes out of it or a recommendation or I met this person and you two need to meet. And it may become the person you marry, you build a business with, you just become friends with. I don't know.
I think network and introductions are some of the greatest forms of ROI.
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