Dr. Nicole F. Roberts
Appearances
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
That's a great question, by the way. And I love when people do ask us the same question because this gets to what we started the conversation about, which is you'll never get the same answer.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
You did bring up something very quickly and I'm answering your question, but you brought up something and thank you, which is we, when we were looking at the definition of generosity so often, particularly here in the United States where we live, it was the definitions and examples were related to donor dollars, philanthropy, giving, writing of a check. Yep.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And that is not, you can be very generous with your treasure, but your time is certainly the most valuable thing that you have. talent, your skills, mentorship. What we found is those are much more rewarding in terms of being generous. But you said you do it with no expectation. And so I just wanted to quickly
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
Say when we wrote the book, we redefined generosity and the definition that we had is any act of kindness or support given with no expectation of exchange or return from the recipient. It truly is a gift. If you give it, it is then out of your hands. If you give expecting something... One, you're probably going to be disappointed. Two, you've now made it transactional.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And as humans, we know when something is transactional. Our BS meter can be hit and miss sometimes, but for the most part, we inherently know when someone is being authentic or genuine. And we know when someone is listening because they care about us versus I'm going to listen to you for a minute and then I need you to do this for me. I'm only doing this because I want something from you.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
We know when people aren't being authentic and we don't engage in the same way. We don't build trust. Trust and relationships come from being generous, even if it's as simple as listening, giving someone your time, giving them your energy. And so I just wanted to bring up that definition, but it also brings me to that ROI. What I have found is...
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And we heard this from a lot of people that we interviewed, and I've heard it from a lot of people since, but again, in different ways. Everyone has different examples. But when you truly invest in others, their successes become your successes. Their work ethic, their relationships, the relationship you have with them, all these things grow. I can tell you in my experience of There's work.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
There's one particular example that comes to mind immediately, but I won't use names, but I knew someone very not well at all. And it was a husband and wife and they were older. And there were things that I did and volunteered and said yes to that were a giant pain in the butt. But I felt like it was the right thing to do. And I Worked well past what I should have.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And I really thought like nothing came of it. And I was like, that's okay. I want to say five or six years later, one of them reached out and said, hey, there's an opportunity. And we recall not only the way that you stepped up and gave of yourself when you were needed and it wasn't expected, but we've also through LinkedIn or what, like we've monitored your career.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
We've been so impressed by this and this. And when someone told us about this opportunity, you were the first person we thought of to recommend. Would you be open to that? And it led to the next thing. It opened this door that I didn't even know existed. But it was because I put good out. And it was honest and I didn't expect anything. I thought it was a complete waste of time.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
Not a waste of time, but you know what I'm saying? Like in terms of... Yeah, yeah. There was no tangible ROI. There was no, I did this, I got this in return. I was compensated in this way. I was... But what it did is it... put what we call a spirit, like a spirit of generosity. And I tried to live that way before we even defined it in the book. And I have found that it does come back.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
It comes back in ways you don't expect. You cannot measure it with, I gave $5, so I expect $10 back. It may look like volunteering for something, but And a job opportunity comes out of it or a recommendation or I met this person and you two need to meet. And it may become the person you marry, you build a business with, you just become friends with. I don't know.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
I think network and introductions are some of the greatest forms of ROI.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
You put forth yourself. You ask thoughtful questions. You give, I can now say 50 minutes in, a fun, great experience. That speaks volumes. And people naturally, and Montu did it. He chatted with you and he said, I had the most delightful conversation and told me all about it from his perspective. And so that's why, again, when you reached out, I was like, heck yeah, I want to talk. Cool, great.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
So I had always wanted to write a book and not for the sake of writing a book. It's because I just I had ideas. I've actually outlined, I think, three books at this point, like full outlines. And I took one of them. So I've written health care for Forbes. Maybe like 14 years now. I feel like that really ages me back. I've written for Forbes for a very long time.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
I heard such wonderful things about you.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
it's absolutely i think that's a good point to make because it can be hard to say i did this and then they gave back that doesn't make it transactional it genuinely came from a place of interest and passion and that person received it and they gave it to someone else it really is just a series then of generous acts the approach you talk with the book is unusual for business book interviewed real people experts from different areas
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
Her boss who becomes like her mentor isn't real either. And the hotel chain isn't real. We chose... Emily works in hotels, very high-end hotels. And the reason for that was we thought hospitality was the place to set this because it is about giving and meeting people's needs and doing it selflessly. So we chose hospitality. Anyway, I don't... When we created Emily...
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
There wasn't a discussion about gender or anything like that. I think... I wonder how much was subconscious in a sense, because Monty's a little older than I am, and I now certainly think of him as not only a friend and colleague, but a mentor. And I think there was maybe an inherent bias in both of us of that dynamic of someone older and someone younger learning.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
We did have a couple of discussions about her age. And that, I think, again, I don't think gender had anything to do with it. I think it was more of We want someone who is at a place in their career where they are respectable, they're believable, they've worked hard. They're ready to advance so they have enough experience that they want to.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
They're eager to learn and still do, but they're not so far along in their career that it doesn't make sense to go on this learning journey. And so we decided it needed to be someone about 30, late 20s to early 30s, so that she had gone to hospitality school. She had worked for five or six years in this company. So we actually, we spent, I think, more time
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
Thinking about where she would be in that trajectory of her life and what made sense of how long would she have been working here. Because you can't give someone like an SVP title and they've been out of school for four years. No, we didn't. But she is a, we'll say ballpark 30, 30, 30 year old woman. And her mentor is an older gentleman.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
We don't, I don't think we gave him an age person, but he definitely, he's... president of a major hotel experience and very wise and is in a position to give thoughtful people opportunities, but also to tell her where she's misstepped and where she didn't put people first.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And our interviewees, we made sure were all over the place in terms of, like I said, even how they measure success is very different. In the end, I saw two gaps. And those are two people we went in search of. And I think we found the right two people. But one was, and I know we are short on time, but the two areas that I saw that we needed to hear from someone was in education.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And the reason I say education is because One question that we asked everyone, and I didn't feel like we had gotten a really good answer, was about can you teach someone to be generous? Especially people... who have not grown up in an environment that was generous to them. And they lived in families or households or communities where people aren't working from a place of generosity.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
Can you teach that? And so it was wonderful to find, we told people what we were looking for and it took up going, I know exactly. And it's someone who had built schools for boys. And most of these boys come from cities and neighborhoods where generosity was not a way of life for them or the people that were raising them.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And it started with Forbes because they launched a book line. And of course, they started with some of their longest running writers who they had written columns and columns. And so, you know, would you be interested in writing a book? Here's our book line. Here's what we're going to do. And so I submitted my first big idea to them and they were very helpful, helped with my first outline.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And the remarkable stories about the unity and the brotherhood and the kindness and the generosity that these boys exhibited really showed us that you can teach people, but they have to see it. You have to demonstrate and you have to give them grace and be generous with them to help foster that. And so that one, and then one that came from a place of grief,
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And I said, it's easy for people who haven't lost everything to talk about being able to give. And I said, I really want to sit with someone who the well was just dry. And how did you find, because to me, that's when you really have a spirit of generosity. If you can find a place in you to be truly genuine and generous with people when you are tapped out, then it's natural to you.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
It's not something you can use when you've got it. And so we did talk to a woman who I just adore who had suffered great loss. And her story was so touching. And in fact, her story is the one, I think it was the very last interview we did. And it is the one I've gotten the most outreach and feedback on.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
Yeah, I do this annual event that is, for me, it fit perfectly under the umbrella of things, but it is a little off the wall. So I, 12 years ago, along with Lee Steinberg, and I'll tell you briefly about Lee, but started the Brain Health Summit at the Super Bowl. So every year in the host city, I get to live there for a week and host the day before the Super Bowl, this Brain Health Summit.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
So essentially, speaking of generosity, So Lee Steinberg is an agent and he is, people call him the real Jerry Maguire, his basis for the movie Jerry Maguire. Yep. I think at one point he had half the starting quarterbacks in the NFL. So it's basically just like his team's playing his team or his clients playing his clients.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
Anyway, Lee is one of the, literally the most generous human beings on this earth. And He and I met at the UN many years ago, and I didn't know who he was. And of all silly things, we found out we had the same birthday, which in our book, we were like, oh, so we're friends. We're friends. Yeah. Yeah. Birthday twins.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
What we ended up doing is he did, again, the most generous thing, especially to someone younger in their career, not in sports. He said, I used to do these concussion summits and I'd bring my athletes. And he called it his crisis of conscience. He said, I have guys who have won the Super Bowl and don't remember being in the host city. And these are our clients, our friends, like our colleagues.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And we have to have honest and hard conversations because we love the sport of football. It's not going away. So how do we make it safer for the people we love? It came from such a genuine place and concern for the people he loves. And he gave me, literally gave, he gave me the opening hour of his annual Super Bowl party and said, do good. He challenged me to do good.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
We started the process and I was told then, No one buys healthcare books. And it's true. The data validates that. People will buy books that are like longevity, right? Because it's a bit more in the self-help category. But books on actual like healthcare, how to fix the system, our social determinants of health. No, people are not interested.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And so I created the Brain Health Summit is what I call it. It's vague enough that every year in the host city, we can lean into the city and what's going on in the world. And so every year the theme changes, the city changes. This year, the Super Bowl's in New Orleans. And so our entire party, the Brain Summit and the broader Steinberg Super Bowl party, theme is music and the mind.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
We have rented out the New Orleans Jazz Museum. And so everyone who comes to the party not only gets to be in a very haunted, by the way, museum in New Orleans, the birthplace of jazz, but they also get to do a full array of programming from super cool, like, touchy, like, exhibits and activations of neuroscience and music and the power of music to literally change your brain. to a party.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
It is a party. And then to the red carpet, the celebrity, all this stuff. And we do humanitarian awards and recognize people who are truly having an impact in the world. And this year, obviously, we'll be honoring people in sport, but people in music. And what it does is, to me, it essentially is the ultimate culmination of my dissertation. Honestly, going back, I wrote a dissertation on how to...
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
how to build public-private partnerships. And to me, that is what this is. We get to bring people together, as I see it, that would otherwise never have an opportunity to be together, to talk, to mingle, to ask questions. And so you have retired NFL players showing up to ask these neuroscientist questions to try out new technologies.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
We have cool startup companies with big ideas that may get in front of somebody who says, we want to fund that clinical trial or we love the work you're doing. We'd love to see X or Y. And it gets a lot of these people with big ideas in front of media, which for better or worse, it makes a difference because you can have all the big ideas in the world.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
If you can't explain it, if you can't get the message out, it doesn't go anywhere. And so the power of what Lee and his platform can do for people in health care and science and philanthropy is just tremendous. It's undeniable, and I still, 12 years in, have a hard time wrapping my head around it. But it's fun. It's a pain. It's hard. As Leigh says, we have 5,000 of our closest friends come.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
It's a big lift, but we have a wonderful production team. Leigh knocks it out of the park every year. It's invitation only, but you can find me. You can find me. Next year is San Francisco, and we are going to use the power of sport and neuroscience. And next year's theme is going to be around the environment.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
The good news is the NFL has a very predictable schedule. Second week of February, San Francisco. By the way, that would be my birthday because my birthday is the middle of February. Then that's a birthday treat for you.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And so I had always wanted to do it, but I had, I won't say I got rejected because we now live in a space where you can self-publish, you can pay to play, right? Like you can pay and someone will publish for you. I could have pushed it forward, but I just thought if there's not an appetite for it, why spend time and money?
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
I really, especially because I was in graduate school, didn't have to force something. It just didn't feel right. And then... I had this wonderful experience where actually one of those people that I had known from the Forbes world was no longer there. They were working for a different publisher. And they reached out and said, there's someone I really want you to meet. He's writing a book.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
He's thinking about a co-author because he wants someone who has a different perspective. And he said, I'm going to put a few people in front of him. And he probably said this to everybody, but he said, I'm going to put a few people in front of him that I know, but I think you're one. I think you two just would work so well together.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And he said, I know you're deeply passionate about what he wants to do. And that was it. He said, can I just make an introduction and set up a Zoom call? And I said, OK. But I had no idea what I wanted to do. What does that mean? And I met Monty Wood and Monty. He had me not at hello, but about five minutes and he had me. And he had this premise for a book that he was calling Attract Success.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
I don't know if he told you this part. I actually intentionally, I was going to listen to his episode. And then I thought, no, I don't want to because I don't want to be biased. But he had this book idea. It was called Attract Success. But his premise was when you put good out into the world, when you are generous, particularly because he is a business expert.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
Monty is the go-to guy and mentor for business. But that when you genuinely hear about and give of yourself to your voice, colleagues, to your teams, to your family, to people, they will give back to you. And what they will give back to you will propel your success, whether it's in the business or it's in your family life. And so the premise for him was to attract success, to be successful.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
You actually have to give. And that was the key. To receive, you must give and you should give first and freely of yourself. It can't be transactional. Otherwise, it's not really giving. Yeah. And so he had me, right, at that premise. I'm like, absolutely. And I said, there's plenty of science to back this up.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
I said, what you're not going to be able to find that I know of is real literature and data to show the ROI. You can't show in data points. You can't show karma. Yep. And so I say, this is a really tough thing to think about from a science perspective. And I slept on it. We talked. And then it hit me that I needed to stop thinking about all these different things.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
I was like, public health is what I know. And, you know, neuroscience. And so I took this different lens and I said, someone we have to talk to is named Beth. And I told them all about Beth. And I said, she's the person I would go to ask a bunch of these neuroscience questions about. It's not just job, career, business. It starts in here. When we give, what happens?
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
We know the dopamine, the oxytocin, you get like a runner's pie, like those sorts of things. But then that cascade event, because it actually improves your health. People who are truly generous have marriages that last longer, right? Like... They're literally healthier and happier. The Harvard study is almost 100 years old now. The happiness study, it shows consistently, right?
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
People who are kind and new live longer. And so I said, okay, there's something here. Let me live in my space. And Monty and I each brought our parts of the equation together. And then something really cool happened. We
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
worked on what does the outline look like what is the book read is it a self-help thing is it like a business be successful climb the mountain the things felt exactly right they all felt like they were circling around the answer but none of them were like that's it we got it and then it bent and the idea was presented to us and we went yeah we get it
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And it was, let's do something that I don't think has ever been done before, which is always scary, especially in the publishing world. They don't love the let's do something. They love painting. Yes. Yeah. And it said, why don't we write a business fable? Who moved my cheese? Some of those classics. But you keep talking about all these people that you want to talk to and interview.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
So why don't we use the real people? And it's an easy read. In fact, I've had multiple people tell me they knocked it out in two days. Like they'd started on a plane and then they'd finish the next day because it's a story. It's a story about a woman named Emily and she thinks things are great in her career. They're not going. She thought it's a hard lesson, but she sent on this sort of
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
work mission and along the way she is tasked with interviewing people and she then discovers what like her real purpose is and anyway I won't give away the ending so it's an easy read but every person that Emily meets along the way is a real person and what we did is we added a QR code at the end of each chapter so you can it literally takes you to their LinkedIn page so you can actually find
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
Talk to all the people who are in our book. It's a little longer than 50 chapters, but 12 interviews. I had actually played around as well with the idea that there are 12 months in the year. Maybe we do like a curriculum and each month is grounded in one person's... Because we have a neuroscientist, a behavioral scientist. We have an educator. We have a philanthropist.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
The people we interview, we chose them specifically because they are... The most, I really can't underscore this, they are the most thoughtful, talented, generous individuals. Some we knew before, which is why we said, oh, I know, right? I know the neuroscientists we need to talk to. Monty said, I know the philanthropists we need to talk to. Others were brought to us.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
Others we went out seeking because I treated it, again, Monty and I approached it very differently. In the end, I treated it like my dissertation. I had a whiteboard and I had a spreadsheet and I had every chapter's name and I had chosen one or two themes that I thought were so unique to that interview. Things that no one else said or did. And then I had things that everyone said or did.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And so earlier I used the word karma. Every interview, people used, I think only one or two people actually used the word karma, but they used a synonym. of like how things come back to you, the ripple effect of like people. And so that I knew we were really onto something there.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And so that would then send me on the next sort of iteration of my quest, which is if every person, people who do not know each other, people who are all wildly successful in their very different definitions of success and lives all say these same five things. I need to learn more about those five things. Let's dig into those things.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And so for me, even laying out the interview process, because we wanted Emily to grow and learn. And so it was that part I also found fun because we had sticky notes and we were moving them around. Well, she meets this person. Wouldn't it be fun if she then got to take that lesson and go talk to so-and-so? And yeah, that part, even now thinking about it, like it brings a smile to my face.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
I really enjoyed that creative part of how do we tell this story through a young woman's eyes as she's learning and growing and at times feeling really disappointed and let down. And that was, it was a very fun way to do the book. I think are very, very happy with the outcome. And the number of people who reach out, send emails, they've brought me to tears.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
Someone saying, I want to start doing X every day or Y every day. Or one of them, a man emailed and he works in a hospital. And he said, I started saying thank you every day to someone different. And he was saying the most impactful were especially the janitorial, the cleaning staff at the hospital.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
He would stop people he had never met, like a woman one day was washing the windows and he just said, thank you. And he stood and talked to her and she was like, no one says thank you for that. And he said, people are scared many times. They're nervous when they come to the hospital, especially in this hospital environment. And he said, you keep it clean.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
The light shines through these windows like by what you do, it makes their lives better. It makes what we have to do here better, easier. And he said they both ended up in tears because someone had noticed what might look like a menial task, but that it had a huge impact on On the hospital, on the staff, on the patients. And for him to then learn about her and her family.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
Anyway, it was just this whole email. I was just in tears. And he was like, it's because every day I've decided to just say thank you. It's a small act, but I just stop one person and say, thank you for doing this. Thank you for doing that. And he said it led to some wonderful relationships. And he now feels like he knows everybody in the hospital and he knows about them and their children.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
And it's just, he said his life is better.
Chief Change Officer
#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two
Love it.
Chief Change Officer
#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And I tell you what, I haven't opened it in years because I just see it and I'm like, no, I don't have the energy for that.
Chief Change Officer
#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
with the right tech team your expertise could be transformed into a tool that riches and helps even more people have you thought about doing something like that i hear you and i love ai actually i've used it for several things like especially asking questions or how do i say something in a different way the idea of asking it to in any form to write my work for me just feels dirty Yeah. Yeah.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
I think in this case in particular, because I did so many hours of interviews, there's something, I don't know, but this actually, I'm doing the thing I just said we shouldn't do in a sense, which is like that sense of ownership of like all that information was hand collected and tracked and monitored. So to give it to a machine and go make it like, I don't know. It just, it feels weird.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
So I had always wanted to write a book and not for the sake of writing a book. It's because I just I had ideas. I've actually outlined, I think, three books at this point, like full outlines. And I took one of them. So I've written Health Care for Forbes. maybe like 14 years now. I feel like that really ages me, but I've written for Forbes for a very long time.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And it started with Forbes because they launched a book line. And of course they started with some of their longest running writers who they had written columns and columns. And so, you know, would you be interested in writing a book? Here's our book line. Here's what we're going to do. And so I submitted my first big idea to them and they were very helpful, helped with my first outline.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
We started the process and I was told then, No one buys healthcare books. And it's true. The data validates that. People will buy books that are like longevity, right? Because it's a bit more in the self-help category. But books on actual like healthcare, how to fix the system, our social determinants of health. No, people are not interested.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And so I had always wanted to do it, but I had, I won't say I got rejected because we now live in a space where you can self-publish, you can pay to play, right? Like you can pay and someone will publish for you. I could have pushed it forward, but I just thought if there's not an appetite for it, why spend time and money?
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
I really, especially because I was in graduate school, didn't have to force something. It just didn't feel right. And then... I had this wonderful experience where actually one of those people that I had known from the Forbes world was no longer there. They were working for a different publisher. And they reached out and said, there's someone I really want you to meet. He's writing a book.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
He's thinking about a co-author because he wants someone who has a different perspective. And he said, I'm going to put a few people in front of him. And he probably said this to everybody, but he said, I'm going to put a few people in front of him that I know, but I think you're one. I think you two just would work so well together.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And he said, I know you're deeply passionate about what he wants to do. And that was it. He said, can I just make an introduction and set up a Zoom call? And I said, okay. But I had no idea. I was like, what I want to do? What does that mean? And I met Monty Wood. And Monty, he had me not at hello, but about five minutes in, he had me.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And he had this premise for a book that he was calling Attract Success. I don't know if he told you this part. I actually intentionally, I was going to listen to his episode. And then I thought, no, I don't want to because I don't want to be biased. But he had this book idea. It was called Attract Success.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
But his premise was when you put good out into the world, when you are generous, particularly because he is a business expert. Monty is the go-to guy and mentor for business. And that when you genuinely hear about and give of yourself to your colleagues, to your teams, to your family, to people, they will give back to you.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And what they will give back to you will propel your success, whether it's in the business or it's in your family life. And so the premise for him was to attract success, to be successful. You actually have to give back. And that was the key. To receive, you must give and you should give first and freely of yourself. It can't be transactional. Otherwise, it's not really giving.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And so he had me, right? At that premise, I'm like, absolutely. And I said, there's plenty of science to back this up. I said, what you're not going to be able to find that I know of is real literature and data to show the ROI. You can't show... In data points, you can't show karma. Yep. Yep. And so I say, this is a really tough thing to think about from a science perspective. And I slept on it.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
We talked. And then it hit me that I needed to stop thinking about all these different things. I was like, public health is what I know. And, you know, neuroscience. And so I took this different lens and I said, someone we have to talk to is named Beth. And I told them all about Beth. And I said, she's the person I would go to ask a bunch of these neuroscience questions about.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
It's not just job, career, business. It starts in here. When we give, what happens? We know the dopamine, the oxytocin, you get like a runner's pie, like those sorts of things. But then that cascade event, because it actually improves your health. People who are truly generous have marriages that last longer. They're literally healthier and happier. The Harvard study is almost 100 years old now.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
The happiness study, it shows consistently, right? People who are kind and give live longer. And so I said, okay, there's something here. Let me live in my space. And Monty and I each brought our parts of the equation together. And then something really cool happened. We
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
worked on what does the outline look like what is the book read is it a self-help thing is it like a business be successful climb the mountain the things felt exactly right they all felt like they were circling around the answer but none of them were like that's it we got it and then it bent and the idea was presented to us and we went yeah we get it
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
Welcome again. Thank you. Thank you. I'm thrilled to be here. Monty raved about his time with you. I heard all about it. And so when you sent a note and said, I'd like to talk, I was like, absolutely. Yeah. So thank you. I love the idea of getting, I'm sure you'll come to find that we are very different people. We share like a mission, which is what brought us together, but we are very different.
Chief Change Officer
#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And it was, let's do something that I don't think has ever been done before, which is always scary, especially in the publishing world. They don't love the let's do something. They love painting. Yes. Yeah. And it said, why don't we write a business fable? Who moved my cheese? Some of those classics. But... You keep talking about all these people that you want to talk to and interview.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
So why don't we use the real people? And it's an easy read. In fact, I've had multiple people tell me they knocked it out in two days. Yeah. Like they'd started on a plane and then they'd finish it the next day. Because it's a story. It's a story about a woman named Emily. And she thinks things are great in her career. They're not going. She thought it's a hard lesson.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
But she's sent on this sort of work mission. And along the way, she... is tasked with interviewing people and she then discovers what like her real purpose is. And anyway, I won't give away the ending. So it's an easy read, but every person that Emily meets along the way is a real person. And what we did is we added a QR code at the end of each chapter.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
So you can, it literally takes you to their LinkedIn page. So you can actually meet, talk to all the people who are in our book.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
So I'm interested to also hear like on the back end, you can pick it apart.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
So I grew up in the South and in the Midwest, but then moved to go to school. And school, yeah, we can talk about that. That was a long process. It was not a linear, not a straight line. We'll say that. But I did college. I did a master's degree and then a doctorate. My doctorate is I'm a doctor of public health, but my background is actually a bit more in neuroscience.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And so where I've always loved to work is in global public health, solving big problems, but also in that behavioral space. Why do people do the things they do? How do we I don't love this term, but it came to me, meet people where they are. And if you're trying to make people healthier, happier, you have to start with where people are, though. You can't just say, do this.
Chief Change Officer
#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
That doesn't work for people. Our brains fight change. Like that's just inherently what happens and change is hard. And so you always have to think about what are people's actual circumstances? What does their day look like? Someone who has multiple children is very different than someone who has no children.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
Someone who drives cars is someone very different from someone who has to walk or take public transportation. So you really have to think about why do people make the choices they do and how do we influence those choices for good if and when we can.
Chief Change Officer
#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
Sure. So before all of that, actually, I, in undergrad, I was psychology and biology. I ran a double major, and my goal was actually to go to medical school. And I had this idea that I was going to be like the greatest neurosurgeon or neuroscientist of all time. And then as I got towards the end of undergrad, I realized... I was terrible at chemistry. I thought, oh no.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And this was right at the height of like the pharmaceutical rep and all that kind of stuff right around the early 2000s. And I just I panicked and I thought, oh, my gosh, I'm going to go to medical school and I'm going to end up in the middle of my class. I'm going to end up at some hospital writing prescriptions and that that's going to be my life. And I just I froze.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And so I was like, how can I change the system, the health care system in particular? How can I work in healthcare but really make change, not just one prescription at a time, right? And so I thought public policy. I thought I can change policy. And so I went to UChicago and I got a master's in public policy and moved to Washington, D.C. And then I learned...
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
a lot, real quick, about policy and politics. They are two very different things, but I find at least in the last 20 years, that Venn diagram has overlapped more and more. And so it's hard to make good policy that is removed from the politics, particularly in healthcare. And so it really broke my heart. And I started seeing that, especially international work, I could have a huge impact
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
Small things could have a huge impact. And that was so meaningful to me. And it's not the kind of work you get a raise for promotion or a thank you or a title bump. But you can actually see change. You can see people change. like get healthier, be happier, have access, right? When children have access to food, for example, girls can go to school.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
Like it's simple, like food security can change family dynamics. Children are allowed to go to school and they don't have to work They're not married off at a younger age. There's all these things. And to me, that's all public health. And I decided to do my doctorate in public health. And that journey was its own side quest because I started a Ph.D. program.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And my dissertation chair was a wonderful man. I hit some bumps in the road that included divorce. So my personal life derailed and then my dissertation chair died and I didn't know what to do. And I thought I would take like a six month or one year break. to reset, refocus, change my topic. And I had access to all these children's data.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And I thought that's a year from now, that data is going to be not necessarily out of date, but I'll have to reapply for all these states to have access, which is lots of paperwork and I don't know what happened, except I started a human rights firm and I found myself quite content with my work. And the next thing I know, six years had gone by. So my six months became six years.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And actually, the University of North Carolina essentially called and went, there's a window on a doctorate. I said, oh, didn't notice. It's safe. You need to re-enroll or we need to go our separate ways. And I said, no, I'm coming back. I'm going to finish. And what was amazing, though, is I then got to complete that journey, take my tests, do my dissertation, but with a whole new mindset.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
I got to write a dissertation, work from a place that had years of work experience and was really happy with the space I was in, as opposed to just writing books. essentially like a book to write a book to check the boxes and graduate. So for me, it worked out perfectly. But no, it was starts and stops and twists and turns.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And I ended up everywhere from Missouri to Chicago to North Carolina to get it done.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
yeah i found it so frustrating and the natural place for someone like me with an academic background is like a think tank writing papers which i do enjoy obviously i read a book like i enjoy writing but that idea of just for me at least being in one place and writing about things and saying if you did this it would help people but then not seeing action come from it drives me nuts and yeah it
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
It's just not where I derive my joy. We'll say that.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
Every time is different. Every administration is different. For me, part of it is just the timing of what health care in the United States has gone through in the last 15 to 20 years and add in a pandemic. And it's just a very frustrating field to try and move the needle in policy and politics.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
So, I don't know how it is in every program, but at least in mine, you take on a piece of your dissertation chair's work, right? You gravitate towards them. They gravitate towards you because you share common interests, you know, whatever it is that brings you together, that you work with them during your doctorate. They're your mentor, your guide. And so mine was wonderful.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
He was not only an economist, but he had worked in maternal and child health. And so I thought this is where I could have a big impact in particularly children's health. That time away, especially running my own company and doing other things, I knew I wanted to focus more on getting back to that neuroscience side of things, the behavior side of things.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And where I had found my greatest frustrations is what ended up being my dissertation. And it was how to build public-private partnerships. And in healthcare, as I was just talking about with politics and policy, but we... I say we, like for people who work in healthcare generally, like so many fields are not good at collaboration. And others are excellent at collaboration.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And for example, in the 1990s, Bush, President Bush declared in a presidential proclamation at the 1990s, he called it the decade of the brain. He promised, because research was moving at such a pace, that by the close of 1999, we would solve a whole array of things that had to do with the brain, from Alzheimer's to other forms of degeneration and whatnot. And we've made very little progress.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And yet you see fields like cancer, where we've got moonshots, countries literally working together, sharing their data. And so anyway, I ended up writing my dissertation on how to build public-private partnerships in healthcare, but specifically in neuroscience. And what it allowed me to do was to interview all these brilliant people about what works and what doesn't.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
I got to go to people from different fields. Like, why does this work in your field? Why is it that neuroscience, like, why have we never been able to do X or Y? How is it that Canada has this huge, every university is connected to one brain bank sort of thing? Why can't we do that? I learned so much about how not only we communicate as humans, but how we build trust or lack of trust.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And what it takes to truly give in a space like neuroscience, where anything you learn, anything you do, create, find, could be some novel breakthrough. And so people hold on to that really tightly. There's such a sense of ownership, but that gets in the way of collaboration.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
and sharing and trust and so i it was a really fun frustrating don't get me wrong i'm not gonna say like a dissertation is fun to write but it was fun to interview all these really different people Take all their different experiences and lay them out in a spreadsheet, if you will. Most of the time it was like on whiteboards and things.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
But just like here's things that every person said and did that was geared towards solutions and collaboration. Here's everything they listed as pain points. And just to be able to look at the data that would support when things get done, how they get done. and look at other areas where public-private partnerships succeed resulted in something that I was pretty proud of.
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#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One
And to be honest, I assumed it would be my first book. I thought when I finished the dissertation part, I would take it and turn it into an actual book that was readable by people. And then I was just so burnt out. Honestly, it's still sitting on a shelf in my office. It's still there. All the interviews, the transcripts, it's all there. And there are nice little binders.