Chief Change Officer
#374 Nicole F. Roberts: Turning Science and Story into Impact—Part Two
Sat, 17 May 2025
What do janitors, jazz musicians, and neuroscientists have in common? According to Dr. Nicole F. Roberts, everything.In Part Two, the Doctor of Public Health and co-author of Generosity WINS unpacks how she and Monty Wood turned a business book into a narrative experiment—part fiction, part real-world leadership case study. She shares how they chose a fictional hotel manager named Emily to guide readers through generosity’s ripple effects, and how each chapter’s QR code links to a real leader with real lessons.We also explore her annual Brain Health Summit, hosted during Super Bowl weekend with NFL stars, neuroscientists, and 5,000 guests. It’s science, story, and social impact—all rolled into one unforgettable conversation.Key Highlights of Our Interview:Why No One Buys Healthcare Books—But Everyone Needs This One“People won’t read about systems. They’ll read about people. So we built a fictional character, Emily, to carry real wisdom forward.”Inside the Writing Process: Spreadsheets, Stickies, and Storytelling“We tracked every theme. We mapped each arc. It was my dissertation mind meets Monty’s business brain—and it worked.”Real Leaders, Fictional World: How Emily’s Journey Became Everyone’s“Each person Emily interviews is real. Every QR code leads to their profile. We didn’t make this stuff up—we brought it to life.”Redefining Generosity: It’s Not About Giving Money“Generosity is any act of kindness or support, given without expectation of return. If you expect something back, it’s just a transaction.”The Ripple Effect Is Real—And Unmeasurable“You can’t plug karma into a spreadsheet. But trust, reputation, and relationships? They’ll open doors years later.”A Thank-You Changed Everything“One reader started thanking hospital staff daily. It brought him—and others—to tears. That’s the ROI no one talks about.”Why They Made Emily a Woman—and Placed Her in Hospitality“Hospitality is about anticipating needs. It’s the perfect metaphor for generosity. Emily’s age and role made her ready to learn, not perfect.”Can Generosity Be Taught? Yes—With Grief and Grace“We found our answers in boys’ schools and in people who’d lost everything. Generosity grows when modeled—and when it’s all you have left.”Brain Summit at the Super Bowl? Yes, Really.“5,000 guests, jazz museums, NFL players, and neuroscientists. Every year, we throw a party with a purpose.”Next Year: San Francisco, Brain Health, and the Environment“Mark your calendar: Super Bowl weekend in SF. Brain Summit’s next theme? The intersection of neuroscience and nature.”_________________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Dr. Nicole F. Roberts --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.18 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1.5% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>170,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: What inspired Dr. Nicole F. Roberts to write 'Generosity Wins'?
Now, going back to your book, Generosity Wins, what brought you in the very first place to write something like this and with Monty as your co-author?
So I had always wanted to write a book and not for the sake of writing a book. It's because I just I had ideas. I've actually outlined, I think, three books at this point, like full outlines. And I took one of them. So I've written health care for Forbes. Maybe like 14 years now. I feel like that really ages me back. I've written for Forbes for a very long time.
And it started with Forbes because they launched a book line. And of course, they started with some of their longest running writers who they had written columns and columns. And so, you know, would you be interested in writing a book? Here's our book line. Here's what we're going to do. And so I submitted my first big idea to them and they were very helpful, helped with my first outline.
Chapter 2: Why do people struggle to buy healthcare books?
We started the process and I was told then, No one buys healthcare books. And it's true. The data validates that. People will buy books that are like longevity, right? Because it's a bit more in the self-help category. But books on actual like healthcare, how to fix the system, our social determinants of health. No, people are not interested.
And so I had always wanted to do it, but I had, I won't say I got rejected because we now live in a space where you can self-publish, you can pay to play, right? Like you can pay and someone will publish for you. I could have pushed it forward, but I just thought if there's not an appetite for it, why spend time and money?
I really, especially because I was in graduate school, didn't have to force something. It just didn't feel right. And then... I had this wonderful experience where actually one of those people that I had known from the Forbes world was no longer there. They were working for a different publisher. And they reached out and said, there's someone I really want you to meet. He's writing a book.
He's thinking about a co-author because he wants someone who has a different perspective. And he said, I'm going to put a few people in front of him. And he probably said this to everybody, but he said, I'm going to put a few people in front of him that I know, but I think you're one. I think you two just would work so well together.
And he said, I know you're deeply passionate about what he wants to do. And that was it. He said, can I just make an introduction and set up a Zoom call? And I said, OK. But I had no idea what I wanted to do. What does that mean? And I met Monty Wood and Monty. He had me not at hello, but about five minutes and he had me. And he had this premise for a book that he was calling Attract Success.
I don't know if he told you this part. I actually intentionally, I was going to listen to his episode. And then I thought, no, I don't want to because I don't want to be biased. But he had this book idea. It was called Attract Success. But his premise was when you put good out into the world, when you are generous, particularly because he is a business expert.
Monty is the go-to guy and mentor for business. But that when you genuinely hear about and give of yourself to your voice, colleagues, to your teams, to your family, to people, they will give back to you. And what they will give back to you will propel your success, whether it's in the business or it's in your family life. And so the premise for him was to attract success, to be successful.
You actually have to give. And that was the key. To receive, you must give and you should give first and freely of yourself. It can't be transactional. Otherwise, it's not really giving. Yeah. And so he had me, right, at that premise. I'm like, absolutely. And I said, there's plenty of science to back this up.
I said, what you're not going to be able to find that I know of is real literature and data to show the ROI. You can't show in data points. You can't show karma. Yep. And so I say, this is a really tough thing to think about from a science perspective. And I slept on it. We talked. And then it hit me that I needed to stop thinking about all these different things.
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Chapter 3: How does generosity impact personal and professional relationships?
work mission and along the way she is tasked with interviewing people and she then discovers what like her real purpose is and anyway I won't give away the ending so it's an easy read but every person that Emily meets along the way is a real person and what we did is we added a QR code at the end of each chapter so you can it literally takes you to their LinkedIn page so you can actually find
Talk to all the people who are in our book. It's a little longer than 50 chapters, but 12 interviews. I had actually played around as well with the idea that there are 12 months in the year. Maybe we do like a curriculum and each month is grounded in one person's... Because we have a neuroscientist, a behavioral scientist. We have an educator. We have a philanthropist.
The people we interview, we chose them specifically because they are... The most, I really can't underscore this, they are the most thoughtful, talented, generous individuals. Some we knew before, which is why we said, oh, I know, right? I know the neuroscientists we need to talk to. Monty said, I know the philanthropists we need to talk to. Others were brought to us.
Others we went out seeking because I treated it, again, Monty and I approached it very differently. In the end, I treated it like my dissertation. I had a whiteboard and I had a spreadsheet and I had every chapter's name and I had chosen one or two themes that I thought were so unique to that interview. Things that no one else said or did. And then I had things that everyone said or did.
And so earlier I used the word karma. Every interview, people used, I think only one or two people actually used the word karma, but they used a synonym. of like how things come back to you, the ripple effect of like people. And so that I knew we were really onto something there.
And so that would then send me on the next sort of iteration of my quest, which is if every person, people who do not know each other, people who are all wildly successful in their very different definitions of success and lives all say these same five things. I need to learn more about those five things. Let's dig into those things.
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Chapter 4: What is the significance of the Brain Health Summit?
And so for me, even laying out the interview process, because we wanted Emily to grow and learn. And so it was that part I also found fun because we had sticky notes and we were moving them around. Well, she meets this person. Wouldn't it be fun if she then got to take that lesson and go talk to so-and-so? And yeah, that part, even now thinking about it, like it brings a smile to my face.
I really enjoyed that creative part of how do we tell this story through a young woman's eyes as she's learning and growing and at times feeling really disappointed and let down. And that was, it was a very fun way to do the book. I think are very, very happy with the outcome. And the number of people who reach out, send emails, they've brought me to tears.
Someone saying, I want to start doing X every day or Y every day. Or one of them, a man emailed and he works in a hospital. And he said, I started saying thank you every day to someone different. And he was saying the most impactful were especially the janitorial, the cleaning staff at the hospital.
He would stop people he had never met, like a woman one day was washing the windows and he just said, thank you. And he stood and talked to her and she was like, no one says thank you for that. And he said, people are scared many times. They're nervous when they come to the hospital, especially in this hospital environment. And he said, you keep it clean.
The light shines through these windows like by what you do, it makes their lives better. It makes what we have to do here better, easier. And he said they both ended up in tears because someone had noticed what might look like a menial task, but that it had a huge impact on On the hospital, on the staff, on the patients. And for him to then learn about her and her family.
Anyway, it was just this whole email. I was just in tears. And he was like, it's because every day I've decided to just say thank you. It's a small act, but I just stop one person and say, thank you for doing this. Thank you for doing that. And he said it led to some wonderful relationships. And he now feels like he knows everybody in the hospital and he knows about them and their children.
And it's just, he said his life is better.
Let me say this. When I interviewed Monty, he shared a lot from his business background. his work with some major players, real tech titans. And he said things like, Vince, I saw them literally do this, build that. You could really feel impact through his stories. What stood out was how he brought a business lens to everything.
And now, with you bringing in the science angle, I think the two of you really complement each other. Since Monty had that business focus, and I come from a business background too, having studied at Chicago Booth, I naturally asked him about something really specific, the ROI of generosity.
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Chapter 5: How do real-life stories enhance the message of the book?
Love it.
Ever since I first learned the term ROI, it was in a finance class, of course. We did all the usual calculations. But generosity, that isn't something you can plug into a formula. You can't always measure it. Or maybe you can somehow monitor it in a different way. That's why when Monty brought it up, this idea of generosity having a ripple effect, it really landed for me.
Honestly, I buy that concept. I've seen it play out in my own life and career. Doing things with no expectation, and then somehow more opportunities, more trust, more value come back around. So I definitely believe in it, but putting it into a business context, trying to tie generosity to metrics, that's where it gets tricky. I asked Monty about it directly.
If ROI is what we track in business, how do you track or even explain the ROI of generosity? You are not coming from a business world, but you know how strong this concept is in business. How do you think about measuring or recognizing the return on generosity?
That's a great question, by the way. And I love when people do ask us the same question because this gets to what we started the conversation about, which is you'll never get the same answer.
You did bring up something very quickly and I'm answering your question, but you brought up something and thank you, which is we, when we were looking at the definition of generosity so often, particularly here in the United States where we live, it was the definitions and examples were related to donor dollars, philanthropy, giving, writing of a check. Yep.
And that is not, you can be very generous with your treasure, but your time is certainly the most valuable thing that you have. talent, your skills, mentorship. What we found is those are much more rewarding in terms of being generous. But you said you do it with no expectation. And so I just wanted to quickly
Say when we wrote the book, we redefined generosity and the definition that we had is any act of kindness or support given with no expectation of exchange or return from the recipient. It truly is a gift. If you give it, it is then out of your hands. If you give expecting something... One, you're probably going to be disappointed. Two, you've now made it transactional.
And as humans, we know when something is transactional. Our BS meter can be hit and miss sometimes, but for the most part, we inherently know when someone is being authentic or genuine. And we know when someone is listening because they care about us versus I'm going to listen to you for a minute and then I need you to do this for me. I'm only doing this because I want something from you.
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Chapter 6: Can generosity be measured in business?
And I really thought like nothing came of it. And I was like, that's okay. I want to say five or six years later, one of them reached out and said, hey, there's an opportunity. And we recall not only the way that you stepped up and gave of yourself when you were needed and it wasn't expected, but we've also through LinkedIn or what, like we've monitored your career.
We've been so impressed by this and this. And when someone told us about this opportunity, you were the first person we thought of to recommend. Would you be open to that? And it led to the next thing. It opened this door that I didn't even know existed. But it was because I put good out. And it was honest and I didn't expect anything. I thought it was a complete waste of time.
Not a waste of time, but you know what I'm saying? Like in terms of... Yeah, yeah. There was no tangible ROI. There was no, I did this, I got this in return. I was compensated in this way. But what it did is it... put what we call a spirit, like a spirit of generosity. And I tried to live that way before we even defined it in the book. And I have found that it does come back.
It comes back in ways you don't expect. You cannot measure it with, I gave $5, so I expect $10 back. It may look like volunteering for something, but And a job opportunity comes out of it or a recommendation or I met this person and you two need to meet. And it may become the person you marry, you build a business with, you just become friends with. I don't know.
I think network and introductions are some of the greatest forms of ROI.
Speaking from my own experience, there are so many stories like that. One great example is actually this show. I've never asked any guest to refer someone else, not once. Every guest who comes on, either I invited them or they reached out to me. My only focus is creating the best possible experience for them, making sure the episode is meaningful, smooth, and enjoyable. What happened?
More and more guests have told me they genuinely enjoyed the experience. Afterwards, they will say, Hey Vince, I actually know someone who would be a great fit for your show. One guest even referred five new guests. Completely unfronted. No commission, no referral fee, no expectations. It's not transactional.
It's just a natural return, if I can use this word, that comes from being a generous, thoughtful host. That's the ripple effect you were talking about.
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Chapter 7: What defines true generosity according to the authors?
You put forth yourself. You ask thoughtful questions. You give, I can now say 50 minutes in, a fun, great experience. That speaks volumes. And people naturally, and Montu did it. He chatted with you and he said, I had the most delightful conversation and told me all about it from his perspective. And so that's why, again, when you reached out, I was like, heck yeah, I want to talk. Cool, great.
I heard such wonderful things about you.
it's absolutely i think that's a good point to make because it can be hard to say i did this and then they gave back that doesn't make it transactional it genuinely came from a place of interest and passion and that person received it and they gave it to someone else it really is just a series then of generous acts the approach you talk with the book is unusual for business book interviewed real people experts from different areas
But then you built a story around a fictional character, Emily. Why that choice? Why bring in a fictional element in a non-fiction business setting? And I'm also curious, why Emily? Why a female character, not a male one? Was there a particular reason behind that decision?
Her boss who becomes like her mentor isn't real either. And the hotel chain isn't real. We chose... Emily works in hotels, very high-end hotels. And the reason for that was we thought hospitality was the place to set this because it is about giving and meeting people's needs and doing it selflessly. So we chose hospitality. Anyway, I don't... When we created Emily...
There wasn't a discussion about gender or anything like that. I think... I wonder how much was subconscious in a sense, because Monty's a little older than I am, and I now certainly think of him as not only a friend and colleague, but a mentor. And I think there was maybe an inherent bias in both of us of that dynamic of someone older and someone younger learning.
We did have a couple of discussions about her age. And that, I think, again, I don't think gender had anything to do with it. I think it was more of We want someone who is at a place in their career where they are respectable, they're believable, they've worked hard. They're ready to advance so they have enough experience that they want to.
They're eager to learn and still do, but they're not so far along in their career that it doesn't make sense to go on this learning journey. And so we decided it needed to be someone about 30, late 20s to early 30s, so that she had gone to hospitality school. She had worked for five or six years in this company. So we actually, we spent, I think, more time
Thinking about where she would be in that trajectory of her life and what made sense of how long would she have been working here. Because you can't give someone like an SVP title and they've been out of school for four years. No, we didn't. But she is a, we'll say ballpark 30, 30, 30 year old woman. And her mentor is an older gentleman.
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