Chief Change Officer
#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume
Thu, 12 Dec 2024
Holly Bond, once a franchise owner and now the President of Facet Recruitment, spills the secrets of blending old-school charm with modern tech in recruiting.From fax machine résumés to navigating an AI-driven hiring world, Holly’s seen it all. She dishes on the power of networking (spoiler: it’s not about business cards and stale canapés), the importance of bold moves (sometimes you just email anyway), and why being real beats AI algorithms every time. With wisdom, wit, and a knack for finding hidden talent, Holly reminds us that while AI might help, people are still the heart of every great hire.Key Highlights of Our Interview:From Focus Groups to Foundations“When we launched Facets, we started with brutal honesty: focus groups full of blunt feedback about recruiters. We listened, and we built a company rooted in empathy and care.”Breaking the Commission Chain“Recruiting isn’t about commissions; it’s about people. I refused to return to a model where clients matter more than candidates. Instead, I built a team paid for their passion, not percentages.”Catching What AI Misses“If AI had done my recruitment, I would’ve slipped through the cracks. Boolean searches don’t see potential outside the box. Humans do. That’s why we look beyond traditional roles, exploring adjacent sectors for talent.”Spotting the Unsung Stars“A recruiter’s superpower? Seeing someone’s potential before they do. When I reached out to a candidate in her 60s, she couldn’t believe I meant her. But age? It’s just a number—wisdom wins every time.”Putting Yourself Out There“Take risks, be bold, and let people know what you’re looking for. Whether it’s an informational interview or a thoughtful message, putting yourself out there often leads to unexpected opportunities—sometimes even before the job officially exists.”The True Value of a Strong Network“A broad network isn’t just about advancing your career; it’s about helping others too. Being able to connect someone to the right opportunity or advice is the most rewarding part of building genuine, lasting relationships.”_________________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Holly Bond_________________________--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Deep Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives, Visionary Underdogs,TransformationGurus & Bold Hearts.6 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.100,000+ subscribers are outgrowing. Act Today. --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.18 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1.5% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>170,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: What inspired Holly to return to recruiting?
Yeah, when I talked to my friends, when I told them that I was going to do this, they all were shocked and they all laughed at me because I was a recruiter 20 years ago and there was elements that I really liked about it, but there was a lot that I didn't and I left. And I left because in recruiting, we're dealing with people.
People with families, people with emotions, and people are complex, right? At the end of the day, what we always have to remember as recruiters, people are very complex. And the parent company of my company is Royer Thompson. And Royer Thompson's been around almost 30 years. And Kim West is the president of Royer Thompson. And about seven years ago, she bought the company and she rebranded it.
She breathed a new, more innovative breath into it. And they're spectacular. The process is very filled with empathy and curiosity. And I have known Kim for years. And Kim came to me and asked me if I would open a new division of Royer Thompson, open a new, basically a new company. Royer Thompson does the C-suite. board and academia.
And when they were successfully conducting the searches, they would inevitably be asked to work on other searches, executive directors, senior managers. So that intermediate manager to more of a VP role. So we play in that space. And when she came and asked me, I said no. And I actually said no for almost two years because I I remembered what it was like when I was a recruiter before.
And many recruitment companies work almost like real estate agents here in Canada, where they're paid 100% commission. So recruiters, not only do they go out and get the business, so they have to find the client. And when they find the client, that doesn't mean the client's going to give them a search. So they find the client and they have to network and build that.
When they do get a search, they place candidates and then they send the invoice and they probably get 50 to 60% of that invoice, whatever the company allows them to get. So it's very commission-based and you can make a lot of money. When I did it 20 years ago, when I was leaving, I was making a lot of money. It's very compelling, right?
And the more you do it, the more network you have, the bigger network is and the easier it is to do the searches. I remember one day I was in my office Speaking to this man, he was, I remember it exactly. He was 42 years old. He did not have his degree. And at that time, I did not have my degree. I was close, but I didn't have it.
And he didn't have his degree and he was working with his company for over 20 years and he was let go. They did a restructuring and he was let go. He had a wife and a daughter and every morning they would go off to school and work. He had been traveling 80% of the time for his work. So he was getting depressed and anxious and he was frozen. He was frozen, like in panic. He didn't know what to do.
He's in my office and he gets very emotional. And then I talked to him about how to find a job. I was going through all the steps. This is what you're going to do. And he was leaving and he said, I feel so much better. Thank you so much. He said, but I know tomorrow morning I'm going to feel like rubbish. It's this wave of panic I can't explain. And I said, then you call me every morning.
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Chapter 2: How does Holly's approach differ from traditional recruiting?
Like when you called me, when you sent me a message, Vince, and you said, you should be on my podcast. And I said, oh, I don't have anything to say that anybody would listen to. And you came back to me again. And I said, I don't think I'm the person that should be on your podcast. And you said, yes, that's what we do the same. We say, what about this opportunity?
And they say, I don't have this and this. I don't know. You get them excited. And then you hold their hand and you take that next step together. And I think that's what I love about it.
Wow. Based on what you just said, it sounds like I could be a perfect headhunter myself. Though, I have to admit, I haven't had any pleasant experiences with headhunters in my life so far.
Yes, you would.
Are you looking for a job? We can surely talk about this offline. Aside from that, I believe a host, a headhunter, and a CEO are no different. We have a certain kind of superpower in seeing the potential in a person before they see it themselves or believe in it themselves. Don't you agree?
Yes. The other day I had this incredible role. The first person that popped into my head, I thought, oh my goodness, she would be perfect. I sent her a text message. I've known her many years. I said, take a look at this. And she looked at it and she texted me back and she said, I think I might know a couple of people to connect you with. And I said, no, no, you.
I want you to talk to me about this rule. And she said, me? And I said, yes, read it again. You could do this. And she called me and she goes, oh my gosh, I can. I could do it. She said, but I'm in my 60s. And I said, nobody cares. I don't care. We don't care. Age is a number. You're so wise. You've done this job a million times. You can do it. But she was hung up because she's in her early 60s.
And I wanted to tell people... That doesn't matter. That's when you're just, you have so much mind share of what you're working on. And those are the people that I just love it. To find people that haven't really pictured themselves in that role and then to tell them the reasons why they should.
Just a few weeks ago, I released an episode where I talked to a good friend of mine, Mary Shea, who is now partnering with an AI-driven HR tech company. They help corporate recruiters and executive search firms locate desirable candidates, not just for transactional positions, but also for unique senior opportunities. In that interview, Mary explained how the technology works.
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Chapter 3: What role does empathy play in Holly's recruitment process?
So if you're, for many reasons, but I, for example, if you're opening a new Walmart in a new city, I think AI would help you immensely if you have to hire hundreds of people. I really do. And I think AI, we are using AI. At Facet, we are not built for speed. We have a process and it works and we go through that process. So each of our searches take about 10 weeks.
and we have it down perfectly but there are places in those phases so it's four phases that we go through and there are certainly times where ai will help us especially help us not miss anything help us become more efficient every month we have an efficiency meeting and we always talk about ai so with linkedin recruiter for example that uses ai we will use that to help source candidates and add to our pool
You've received this, Vince, where you get a message on your LinkedIn inbox and it goes, hi, comma, and then it'll have somebody asking you if you're interested in a job. And they've sent it out to 3,000 people. That's not us. We will never do that. We will never use the LinkedIn AI tool to have a template to send the same message to people.
we will look at their background and it does make it slower but we're okay with that because again we're dealing with people so we will look at their linkedin profile or the resume and we will send a message to them not a template we will say hey i see that you're over in prince edward island or you're in toronto um i see that this is happening or we will make sure that they are when they read it
They know an AI bot has not sent them a message. We need them to know that. The beginning of the search starts with caring and curiosity, and an AI bot doesn't have either one of those things.
Where AI is really helpful is when you're interviewing 20 people, 30 people for a role, and it'll help transcribe your thoughts and put it into a very, and very quickly, and it'll do that in a succinct way where you can when you go to your client for the shortlist meeting, you say, these are the five candidates. Here's the resume.
And here is a succinct and concise description of them and their qualities and their characteristics and why they, you know, we always say, you know, we're looking for these four legs of the stool. They need to have these four things. So what is it that they have? But AI tools can really help with that. And it makes us more efficient. But
AI doesn't have, and I'm not against AI, I use ChatGPT all the time, but it doesn't have empathy and emotional intelligence. So if I, and I always think back to myself, I didn't have my degree. It never stopped me from being headhunted. It never stopped me from doing any job. I was a headhunter and didn't have my degree. And I was interviewing people that were much more well-educated than I was.
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Chapter 4: How can networking enhance career opportunities?
And that's why if you put in the Boolean search for your AI tool, they would never have picked me up. I would have slipped through the cracks. You need to have a human eye. And if you only look to use AI to source individuals, you are going to miss some of the most incredibly talented people for this role. So... We understand and respond to emotions, right?
And we have years of nuanced understanding. So we have this intuition that has developed as we have those trips around the sun. But AI relies on data patterns and they will miss that. There's also so many gray areas. Human beings are meant to navigate complex dilemmas and work in the gray area, but an AI can't.
When I look at a role, when we, I shouldn't say I, when we look at a role, we will say, what adjacent careers would this person have had that, and I'm going to use think outside the box, like thinking outside the box, where else could this person be? Instead of we're looking for a senior director of finance, Where else could they be? Senior director of marketing in the ocean tech sector.
But where else could they be? Could they be in the agricultural sector? Thinking outside the box and offering creative solutions that go beyond any algorithms. And then to me, the reason why you get into recruiting or the reason why you get into doing podcasts like yours is the personal connection. Building a personal relationship is uniquely human. You can inspire people.
You can transform people. You can change the trajectory of their life because you care that AI cannot. So AI, to me and to my group, it should be used to make us more efficient so that we can spend more time on personal connection. That's what we're using AI for. more time with people. And you have to be a job seeker in an AI-driven market, right? So you need to know how to balance both now.
Now, you've just brought up the final question of the day. Job seekers, whether they like it or not, have to navigate an AI-driven recruitment market. Personally, I still believe in the creativity, the human creativity you mentioned. as well as the human elements that make someone stand out as a desirable candidate.
But not every recruiter is like you, and not every firm has policies and approaches like yours. So if you could give advice to job seekers, regardless of age or culture, what would it be? Especially for those in their late 40s, 50s, or even 60s, who might have been in one industry for a long time, but whose skills and experiences could be applicable across different sectors.
for candidates seeking changes and new opportunities? How can they position themselves better and stronger for this new norm?
It's really back when I was a recruiter, I would put a job in the paper and then come into work in the morning and I'd have resumes on the fax, like people would fax their resumes in. It's so funny how things have changed, isn't it? Half the people listening don't even know what a fax machine is. I think it's not funny. So one of the things that we do at Fastest is building your network.
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Chapter 5: What advantages do human recruiters have over AI?
Chapter 6: How does Holly identify potential in candidates?
Chapter 7: What are the challenges of commission-based recruiting?
That person called me and said, do you know anybody that would be good for the pulp and paper industry? What if I didn't get that call, Vince? What would I be doing right now? I don't even know. It's like life is pinball game, right? Where you get hit off a bumper and then you're going in a different direction. That phone call, I hit a bumper and it went off in a completely different direction.
And that's what we do for people. We send them an email or a phone call and we say, this is what we're thinking. What do you think? They're so excited that they can't believe that this is even happening. And then they go through the interview process. which we also make caring and lovely, and we hear that all the time. We hear, this has been so much fun.
When do you go through an interview and someone says, this has been so much fun? Because it should be fun. And that's how you get to know people. And there's no AI tool that can make an interview fun and where you get people to drop their guards and open up. That's when you know the real them. And when you know them as a person and as a potential employee,
then, and it's genuine, then you know what would work best for your client. Because when you know your client, really, you go, oh my gosh, that is a perfect match. It's a little bit like matchmaking, right? So we're growing so rapidly. We're having so much fun. I love it. I love... making that phone call and changing people's lives and telling people that push back.
Like when you called me, when you sent me a message, Vince, and you said, you should be on my podcast. And I said, oh, I don't have anything to say that anybody would listen to. And you came back to me again. And I said, I don't think I'm the person that should be on your podcast. And you said, yes, that's what we do the same. We say, what about this opportunity?
And they say, I don't have this and this. I don't know. You get them excited. And then you hold their hand and you take that next step together. And I think that's what I love about it.
Wow. Based on what you just said, it sounds like I could be a perfect headhunter myself. Though, I have to admit, I haven't had any pleasant experiences with headhunters in my life so far.
Yes, you would.
Are you looking for a job? We can surely talk about this offline. Aside from that, I believe a host, a headhunter, and a CEO are no different. We have a certain kind of superpower in seeing the potential in a person before they see it themselves or believe in it themselves. Don't you agree?
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Chapter 8: How does Holly ensure a personalized candidate experience?
And that's why if you put in the Boolean search for your AI tool, they would never have picked me up. I would have slipped through the cracks. You need to have a human eye. And if you only look to use AI to source individuals, you are going to miss some of the most incredibly talented people for this role. So... We understand and respond to emotions, right?
And we have years of nuanced understanding. So we have this intuition that has developed as we have those trips around the sun. But AI relies on data patterns and they will miss that. There's also so many gray areas. Human beings are meant to navigate complex dilemmas and work in the gray area, but an AI can't.
When I look at a role, when we, I shouldn't say I, when we look at a role, we will say, what adjacent careers would this person have had that, and I'm going to use think outside the box, like thinking outside the box, where else could this person be? Instead of we're looking for a senior director of finance, Where else could they be? Senior director of marketing in the ocean tech sector.
But where else could they be? Could they be in the agricultural sector? Thinking outside the box and offering creative solutions that go beyond any algorithms. And then to me, the reason why you get into recruiting or the reason why you get into doing podcasts like yours is the personal connection. Building a personal relationship is uniquely human. You can inspire people.
You can transform people. You can change the trajectory of their life because you care that AI cannot. So AI, to me and to my group, it should be used to make us more efficient so that we can spend more time on personal connection. That's what we're using AI for. more time with people. And you have to be a job seeker in an AI-driven market, right? So you need to know how to balance both now.
Now, you've just brought up the final question of the day. Job seekers, whether they like it or not, have to navigate an AI-driven recruitment market. Personally, I still believe in the creativity, the human creativity you mentioned. as well as the human elements that make someone stand out as a desirable candidate.
But not every recruiter is like you, and not every firm has policies and approaches like yours. So if you could give advice to job seekers, regardless of age or culture, what would it be? Especially for those in their late 40s, 50s, or even 60s, who might have been in one industry for a long time, but whose skills and experiences could be applicable across different sectors.
for candidates seeking changes and new opportunities? How can they position themselves better and stronger for this new norm?
It's really back when I was a recruiter, I would put a job in the paper and then come into work in the morning and I'd have resumes on the fax, like people would fax their resumes in. It's so funny how things have changed, isn't it? Half the people listening don't even know what a fax machine is. I think it's not funny. So one of the things that we do at Fastest is building your network.
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