Chief Change Officer
#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two
Sat, 22 Mar 2025
Chris Hare usually helps execs polish their pitches—but now he’s in the hot seat. In this three-part series, we flip the script and unpack the art (and occasional chaos) of storytelling.• Part 1 dives into the world of corporate storytelling—what works, what bombs, and how to not sound like a robot in a boardroom.• Part 2 gets personal—Chris shares stories that shaped him, including a few that left lasting impressions (for better or worse).• Part 3 puts theory into practice—Chris hands us the tools to craft our own stories, and I test them out… possibly with tissues nearby.Key Highlights of Our Interview:Rewriting Your Inner Cassette Tape“I find it helpful and more visceral to think about our personal narratives as a cassette tape—a tape that’s playing in our head that we’re constantly writing, rewriting, and adjusting.”Building One Authentic Narrative Across Multiple Worlds“A serial CEO I worked with wanted one narrative that connected his private equity, board roles, and yoga community. The result was an authentic narrative rooted in his true self that could be lensed across different audiences.”Proximity Blinds Us to Our Own Stories"We’re so close to our own narrative and stories that we don’t see the broader picture… if you’re building with Lego, you might not see that there’s a gigantic pile of Lego behind you."Changing the Inputs to Shift the Narrative and Change the Outcome“If you continue to put in the same inputs, things likely won’t change… One of the positive inputs I changed was I got into fly fishing, and that was part of changing those inputs to shift not only the narrative but the outcomes.”The Power of Raw Storytelling"Our stories are not always the really clean, really curated story that makes us look good, but that raw story that has the power to shift the future."_____________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Chris Hare______________________--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.10 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.130,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today. --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.12 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>140,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: What is the focus of this podcast series?
Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories.
Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist.
I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story. My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements.
In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages. Yesterday in part one, we explored his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate story and understand the connection between story and narrative. Today in part two, We'll look at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shares some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard.
Chapter 2: How does Chris Hare use storytelling for personal transformation?
He will also open up about his own mental health challenge. Then in part three... He'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry. I'll also be sharing my own experience with another exercise. highlighting both its challenges and insights.
So let's dive into the second chapter of Chris' story. So far, we've covered a lot about narrative and storytelling in a business context. But as you mentioned earlier, Narrative can also play a powerful role at an individual level for leaders, for people in career transitions, or even entrepreneurs building a new venture.
My next question naturally is, how do we apply narrative and story to individual situations? Could you walk us through some examples to help industry this?
I found it, and the young people listening might need to go to Wikipedia and look up what a cassette is, but I find it helpful and more visceral to think about narratives and our personal narratives as a cassette tape, a tape that's playing in our head. We're constantly writing and rewriting that and adjusting that.
Chapter 3: What are some practical examples of applying personal narratives?
This is the future I'm creating, or this is what's happening in the present, or this is what happened in the past, and we fuel that with stories. So I'll give you a few different practical examples. So one, I have this one CEO that I work with. He's a serial CEO and board member. And Chicago MBA, go Chicago, I know you're a fan. Chicago MBA, McKinsey consultant.
When he came to me, he said, it was, how do I, I have one narrative that I use with private equity, another that I use with venture capital. Another that I use with board roles when I'm interviewing. And then I've got my hippie yoga community and my nonprofit work. And what I want is one narrative.
So yes, on the business side, how do I attract more board opportunities without me having to pursue them? How do they come to me? So that was the outcome that he wanted. And I've...
become wise enough to know that I guarantee a process and I guarantee deliverables, but I won't guarantee an outcome because I've seen over and over that these narrative shifts that neither one of us could predict often almost always happen, right?
So with him, when we were done, his narrative, he now has one narrative and an authentic narrative at the core of who he is that came out of his yoga practice, but it can now be used and lensed across each of those different audiences. So now it's an authentic narrative that he can use when he's with his yoga community.
But when he's talking to Goldman Sachs about a business they just acquired, he has that narrative lens. And then he has stories from his experience to support that narrative lens. There's a CEO that I just recently finished working with. And I thought this was going to be my first ever failure. And so this is somebody who has a remarkable story. It's like it could be a movie easily.
They were miserable in their role and they were sick of telling the story and said, Chris, I want a new story. I want you to help me create a new story. And I want to exit my company. And it was fascinating. So in terms of my process, we do future visioning, but not just talking and thinking about it, feeling it. So I put them in that space in the future where they feel that.
And then they're also feeling the choices that they've made across their career, good and bad. Because my goal is not to burnish their reputation or that's not my initial goal is to pull out all of the realities of what happened and how that impacts them, how that makes them feel for better or worse.
And then we do storytelling across their lifespan, going all the way back to when they were a little kid. And I look for patterns and energy there. So I'd done those two steps with this client and it wasn't succeeding. And I thought, okay, this is going to be my first ever failure. And then we did the third part of my framework, which I call Atomic 360.
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Chapter 4: How can storytelling help reshape personal and professional narratives?
I'm teaching myself my new narrative every single day, and I'm learning to be content and happy where I'm at. He's now expanding to other geos, which will at least double his multiple when he exits. But... The thing for him was, and this was a bit scary to say this to someone, but I said, I'm not going to give you a new external narrative. You don't need that.
You have all these extraordinary stories across your life. So those atomic stories are the fuel. And the way that you synthesize those was amazing. Like I'm not going to be happy in these roles or I'm never going to be happy. I have to go to the next thing to find that happiness.
What we actually need to do is synthesize that and make different choices and uncover a new narrative, which is actually if you go deep where you're at, that's where you're going to find the contentment and happiness. And so it's actually rewriting the internal narrative versus the external narrative.
It sounds like you are visualizing each story or Lego brick as a piece of who you are, such as experiences, skills, moments, and memories you've collected over the years. Maybe you've built a specific narrative with those bricks, a structure you've told others and taught yourself for a long time.
By working with someone like you or learning your method, it's like I'm reorganizing those bricks in a new way, rearranging them, to create a fresh, evolved narrative. So even though people might say, wow, this is the whole new Vince, it's still me, using the same foundational pieces, I'm just combining them differently. Highlighting new connections and themes is like building a new structure
But every piece is part of my story. Just reimagine.
I love that. So the one thing I would add to that to, in my mind, make that analogy. work incredibly well is you. So you're the one that's building with those bricks. So if we look at just the bricks on their own, that shows us a static structure that's made up of those stories. So I 100% agree with that. And then you are the dynamic piece of that.
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Chapter 5: What are common challenges in crafting personal narratives?
You are the one who comes in and assembles those pieces from your past to assemble those new potential futures and that narrative. So I just want to zoom out or pull out slightly so that it definitely incorporates you in the energy that you bring, because that's what we do is really we're shaping those pieces from our past. So, yes, absolutely love that analogy.
My own sense of self-awareness has grown over time. Now, I talk to different people, like entrepreneurs, who say, Oh, I know myself better than anyone else. And they have a lot of confidence in their own self-awareness. But telling our own story, crafting our narrative, or even deciding which bricks to use and how to arrange them isn't that easy because we all have blind spots.
So my question for you is, what are some common blind spots or barriers that make telling our own story or building self-awareness so challenging? And why is it helpful to bring in someone like you to help with this process?
Yeah, so I think part of it is distance, our proximity. So we're so close to our own narrative and to our own stories that we don't see the broader picture. So if you're building with Legos, you might not see that there's a gigantic pile of Legos that's behind you.
Right.
Or that you could order more online. Or here's another way to assemble them that you might not have thought of. Absolutely. I had one leader that I worked with. They just started talking and they'd done a lot of therapy, but they'd also gone through a huge spiritual transformation because of all the work that they'd done.
Once I put them in the right environment and had the right framing, everything just flowed out. But the next piece is that especially in the business world. And when you talk storytelling, I generally don't believe what people say. This is my most important story or this is my narrative because I've seen so many times that generally the narrative is there, but it's hidden.
And so my job is to put you in a space to where we can uncover that. And so where the kind of the mass media conversation around storytelling can be can create even more challenges is we think like the hero's journey, for example. Oh, I need to take this framework. And Chris is asking me about to tell my story and I've got to fit it into this framework. And I actually want the opposite.
I actually create what feels like a fairly chaotic environment when I'm asking for stories. And it may feel all over the map. I've had people that don't believe me or don't trust me about why I ask certain questions. But my goal is for you to collide with stories from your past that you've forgotten about, that you don't value, that you don't think are relevant.
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Chapter 6: How can past stories influence future narratives?
There's a lot of wealth locked up in the business but the business has a ton of chaos. And so he comes in and fixes that chaos and then helps them maximize their value and eventually their exit. most prolific storyteller i've ever worked with period to the point that i mean it almost my brain can handle a lot it almost melted my brain but what was interesting is where we got to his narrative is
discovered the story of when he was a kid, his favorite thing to do was when after it would rain, he would hike for miles to get to the creek with his friends. The water was high. The water was essentially like chocolate milk and there's sticks in there and there's trash in there.
And he would spend the entire day cleaning it up, taking the trash out, taking the sticks out, getting the water flowing the right direction. That brought him so much joy. The only thing that brought him more joy is when the next rain would come and wreck it again and he got to do it all over again. And so that's what I showed him.
It was that's the pattern for his entire life that he's followed over and over again. And he goes into these chaotic situations and he's this calming, peaceful presence. And he knows how to get that creek flowing the right way in a way that brings life and peace and better financial outcomes. So that creek became core to what his narrative was.
So for him, that's grounding and centering, and that's a story that he can tell. But then also you have to pull it all the way through to the business outcomes that it drives. So it's okay, great. We have this really compelling and emotional narrative, but now how do we pull it down into the pillars of his business and the outcomes that his customers want to drive?
But again, that was a story that he told and never saw it from that perspective. And not realizing that is a part of that flows through him. It's a part of who he is now.
Over the years, you've worked with so many people and have seen firsthand how they tell the stories and craft the narratives. So what's the worst story you've ever heard?
Yes, there's a lot of bad ones out there, but I think I'll pick on myself. And for this part gets a bit from a really challenging part of my journey. So in 2015, when I worked at Amazon, my mental health was in a really bad place and I nearly took my life.
What was interesting in retrospect is there was something that happened to me and I remember going to work the next day and believing that I was stuck. in the situation that I was this, I won't go into the situation, but I was stuck in this situation.
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Chapter 7: What unique approaches does Chris Hare use in storytelling?
And there were some days where I was commuting up to three hours round trip in the dark, in the rain, in the Seattle, the terrible Seattle weather that we have. And I was in this place where I was stuck. It felt stuck in this job. I felt stuck in my car. I had chronic pain and I had a terrible situation at work. And so what happened is I would repeat over and over again.
I started to repeat, I'm stuck. I'm stuck. I'm stuck. And I would do this for hours every week. And it became a mantra. You talk about the power of a mantra. Usually it's a positive mantra. This was a negative mantra. So I would repeat that. So that story was the thing that happened to me that precipitated this. And there were a bunch of other stories.
And that tape that played in my head, that narrative was, I'm stuck. And then one day, tragically, I saw I drove past a car of a gentleman who had just died in an accident. And all of a sudden, so that was a story. All of a sudden, my narrative internally became not I'm stuck. It became I'm going to die. And so I would repeat that narrative over and over again.
And I remember falling asleep in traffic one day, almost falling asleep. And then I remember almost swerving into a truck and I like those kinds of things. And those little tiny stories would keep reinforcing this narrative to the point that actually took me to the edge where I nearly took my life.
I know it's heavy, but that's part of why I believe in this work so much is because those, the way that we take those stories and synthesize them can be very high stakes. So like in that moment, you might, for somebody else, so you're in that situation, it might not hit you the way that it hit me and you might synthesize it in a different way.
But that story, absolutely the worst story I've ever heard or told myself.
For you to be where you are now, living the life you want and helping others do the same, you must have transformed your own narrative from a difficult place to a much better one. Before we ask the next question, I'd love to hear if you're open to sharing. How you managed to break free from a narrative that was holding you back?
How did you go about breaking it down and then recomposing it into something much more empowering?
As a creative person, when I went to Amazon, One of my clients, who was the director at the time, became the VP there. He would always talk about inputs and outputs. And it used to drive me nuts because as a creative person, I'm like, no, I just want to envision this future and do creative things. But it really is that. It's inputs and outputs.
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