Chief Change Officer
#80 Jennifer Selby Long on Growing Beyond Office Politics: Breaking Free from Toxic Cultures That Follow You - Part Two
Tue, 26 Nov 2024
Part Two. Ever left a toxic boss or workplace, hoping for a fresh start, only to land in the same chaos at your new job? It’s a frustratingly common cycle. The truth is, office politics are everywhere. From power plays and subtle maneuvers to that colleague who always seems to win, navigating workplace dynamics can be exhausting. In this two-part series, leadership expert Jennifer Selby Long joins me to unpack why office politics happen, how some people thrive in politically charged environments, and why others struggle. We’ll explore toxic cultures, power dynamics, and the hidden forces shaping your work life—and how to navigate them without losing yourself along the way. Feeling stuck or burned out? These episodes are packed with relatable stories and actionable insights to help you take your next step forward. Key Highlights of Our Interview: Talent vs. Tactics: Why Performance Alone Doesn’t Guarantee Success “In corporate environments, it’s often not the most skilled or hardworking employees who thrive—it’s those adept at navigating office politics. Top performers may drive results, but their brilliance can threaten insecure leaders, creating a system where political tact outshines true talent.” The Right Culture for the Right Person “Some thrive in competitive political environments; others find them draining. The key is identifying whether your personal interests align with the culture around you. The fit matters more than fighting a system that may not suit you.” No Permanent Friends, No Permanent Enemies—Just Interests “Drawing from the wisdom of Martin Luther King’s attorney, Clarence Jones: the game of politics is about aligning interests, not forging everlasting alliances. Understanding this can shift how you approach your workplace dynamics.” Burnout and Disengagement: The Fallout of Neglecting Talent “When talent is neither respected nor recognized, it creates a workplace rife with disengagement and burnout. Organizations lose not just individuals but the potential for meaningful progress, leaving behind a culture where playing the game matters more than delivering value.” _________________________ Connect with us: Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Jennifer Selby Long Chief Change Officer: Make Change Ambitiously. Experiential Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives Global Top 3% Podcast on Listen Notes World's #1 Career Podcast on Apple Top 1: US, CA, MX, IE, HU, AT, CH, FI, JP 2 Millions+ Downloads 50+ Countries --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.18 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1.5% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>170,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: What common patterns do toxic workplaces share?
How some people, when making career moves... leave a toxic boss or a harmful culture or an environment that is so vested in office politics only to find themselves in a similar situation at the new job. It's like running away from one problem only to land in another. that led us into a bordered discussion on toxic cultures and even the role office politics play in these dynamics.
We also touched on how some leaders or managers might unknowingly struggle with their personality disorders, which can contribute to these environments. Today, we are honing in on office politics specifically. Let's be real, who hasn't faced them? Whether it's subtle power struggles or outright maneuvering is something everyone has encountered.
Yet, when I type office politics into Google, I don't find as much as I expected. Maybe the term isn't as trendy, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't real or common. People might call it power dynamics, workplace dynamics, but the underlying issue is universal. Do you think having a hybrid work model might actually help manage office politics? Or does it make things worse?
On one hand, with less in-person interaction, people aren't constantly grouped together, which might reduce some of the tension that can build in close quarters. it creates a bit of balance. You're not always in the office, so those dynamics don't dominate your entire day. But on the other hand, there's the behind-the-scenes factor.
Those who want to curry favor with the boss could still do it privately in ways others might not even notice. is a different kind of politicking that could still cause issues, just less visibly. I imagine researchers are already looking into this shift and its impact on workplace dynamics. What's your take on how hybrid or remote work influences office politics? Does it shift the balance?
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Chapter 2: How can hybrid work models influence office politics?
Or do you think human nature finds a way to keep the same patterns alive just in new formats?
Yeah, I think it's a great question because it is very much our current situation for many businesses. And I wish the answer were super simple. It's not quite as simple as I wish it were because it does depend a little bit on your situation. In the hybrid work model, are people going into the office to just work on their own work?
If so, I'm not sure you're going to get huge benefit out of that in terms of lessening politics or political alliances because they're not really interacting that much. Nor do I think you're going to get, you know, much of the benefit of obviously of working on very complex problems together if you're not really there to work together.
The other particular challenge I'll play you in is most of the clients that we work with are distributed not throughout one metropolitan area, but across the globe. And so... Sure, if your team is largely local and you can get together fairly regularly with intention, with the purpose of working on complex problems, right? Coming to very challenging agreements together.
Chapter 3: Why do some employees thrive in politically charged environments?
Sure, you want to do that in person. You are going to get a better result. But if your team is distributed around the globe, I would question how much significant benefit there would be to going into an office. You would all just be in different offices.
So I think you really have to look at being incredibly purposeful for when you get together and to work on the tough stuff when you are together and not just simply trust that everything The fact that you can have a lunchtime conversation in and of itself is going to be enough.
In fact, one of my clients is working on what they call more a sense of belonging or connectedness across their very global organization. And they're experimenting with all kinds of things to help build more of that personal trust. I'll let you know how those experiments go across time because this is a significant challenge. People who are lonely at work and don't feel connected.
It's a big problem. It's a big problem in a lot of places. It causes a lot of additional problems. And from my point of view, it feeds notions of politics because there are people who feel connected and people who don't feel connected. And if you feel more connected, you're going to be more of an insider, right?
You're going to have more of an understanding of the political dynamic and the needs of other people. So I think that this is one we need to keep observing, assessing, and experimenting with across time. It's a super new way to work when you look at how very many years people work together in person. And it's really only been the last few where the majority do not work together in person.
When I worked in corporate, I collaborated with people across different locations. Hong Kong, London, Singapore, New York, Australia, all over the place. Remote collaboration was the norm for me, even without smartphones at the time. While the system's worst move, politics was always present, whether locally or at the headquarters.
Decisions made at headquarters, often driven by power dynamics, would ripple out and affect us in Asia Pacific Regional Office. You brought up the idea of some people being immune to politically charged environments. But I've also observed an other type, those who thrive in them. And here's where it gets frustrating.
In many organizations, it's not the most skilled or high-performing employees who stay. often is those who navigate all this politics best. I've seen this firsthand. Imagine you have three people, A, B, and C. A and B are top performers, far better at their jobs than C. But somehow it's C who sticks around while A and B either leave for better opportunities or are squeezed out.
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Chapter 4: What is the relationship between performance and office politics?
Sometimes bosses prefer it that way because they don't want to feel threatened. Leaders may say they want to hire people smarter than them to push the organization forward But in reality, jealousy, ego, and sense of insecurity often get in the way. A boss might think, why should I keep someone who doesn't follow my orders, even if they are brilliant?
Even when colleagues or clients sing the praises of these high performers, it can backfire. A boss who feels overshadowed might quietly engineer a way to push them out. The result? Talented, hardworking people leave feeling disillusioned and disengaged, while less capable colleagues remain. It's no wonder we hear terms like burnout or disengagement tossed around.
But at its core, it comes down to a lack of respect and recognition for those who truly contribute. This cycle is what I have observed and even experienced myself. Those who stay aren't always the best performers. They are often just the best at playing the game. Jennifer, what's your perspective on this dynamic? How do we address this to create fairer and more effective workplaces?
Yeah. And if you notice this pattern consistently with your boss, I would say this is where you do have to really step back and navigate for yourself. Go out into the future 10 or 20 years and look back on the current situation. And ask yourself truly in your heart, what is most important here?
Because in that situation, maybe there's one employee who has two little kids to support and they go, what's most important is they keep my job for the kid. And so I'm just gonna, I'm gonna stay, right? Even though it means that I'm gonna have to carry some of the workload for others. And someone else might be in a situation where they're going,
No, the most important thing is for me to go find an environment where the leadership is not threatened by me and where I can really flourish. I would never, as a coach, tell someone which of those choices is the right choice because it's whatever is the right choice for you and what you need to do, looking at your situation and looking in your heart.
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Chapter 5: How can individuals navigate their workplace dynamics effectively?
Because if you find a consistent pattern where the boss is just simply easily threatened by the stronger performers, That is what it is, right? There is not necessarily a lot that you can do to influence that. Not in a real significant way, not from where you sit as an employee. Exactly.
Office politics, as its core, isn't inherently good or bad. It is simply a reflection of human nature in group dynamics. When people come together to work towards a goal, there's always an underlying assumption that everyone is aligned. But in reality, goals often clash. When priorities conflict, tensions arise.
people start using alternative methods to advance their own objectives and agenda at the expense of others. Sometimes, this is when things like back-stepping, bad-mouthing, or other manipulative behaviors emerge. It's not the politics itself that's the issue, but how it manifests. Pursuing individual agendas can erode trust and create a toxic environment. It's a cycle.
One person's actions trigger an other's defense mechanism. And before you know it, the focus shifts from collaboration to competition. Understanding this dynamic is key to addressing it. The question becomes, how do we redirect these energies back towards shared goals and healthier workplace relationships?
Chapter 6: What role does personal transformation play in leadership?
Yeah, absolutely. It's one of the reasons that I think it is so important for leaders to not just somehow think we aligned on our goals and now we just march forward because goals are pretty dynamic, right? And the different pressures that businesses are under change as markets change, as the geopolitical environment changes, you need to stay well-seeked up and well-aligned as a leadership team.
or you're going to be giving differing direction to the people who work for you. And then those people will find themselves at loggerheads and starting to do some infighting with one another, in part because you did not stay aligned at that higher level. And really, also, I would say of great significance, didn't learn how to raise and address conflict in a way that was healthy and effective.
Chapter 7: How can organizations prevent burnout and disengagement?
Yeah, we could probably eliminate a good chunk of politics by just improving the ability to raise and resolve conflict in a healthy way.
Could you elaborate on the last point you just made?
Sure. I think that often when people get together to have conversations about business or whatever it is that they're accountable for within a business, they talk about the goal that's passed, the things that seem very concrete and hard and in a plan. And then when one person believes that one thing is true and our other believes the other is true, they just start talking at each other.
Instead of stepping back to say, wait a minute, it seemed like We're in conflict here. How many times have people done that in the business environment? Pretty rare to step back and say, it seems that we're in conflict with each other. Let's step back. Let's put ourselves in one another's shoes. Let's ask some more questions. Let's make sure we understand the situation.
And I've had a number of early clients say, oh, I don't have time to do that. How much time are you wasting now on the political battles because you didn't step back and try to put yourself in the shoes of all of these other people and understand where they're coming from?
Check to make sure you actually understand where they're coming from and what's driving them because you're probably making some false assumptions about what that is. I can just about guarantee it. Are you stepping back to list the areas where you're in agreement? Probably not. Most people don't. As you start to work through these things, differing dialing is another one. Oh, my gosh.
I've had teams that were leadership teams. See, you said we're just starting to backbite one another and get into a little bit of gamesmanship. And when we analyze the different styles on the team and we were able to step back objectively and look at that and say, can you come to some agreements here? on your behaviors because you all have naturally different styles.
You're all coming in with naturally different assumptions about what it means to be on a team, what it means to communicate, what it means to commit. You all have different assumptions about what that looks like. And so stepping back to look at the style and do you have conflict that is really exacerbated by these different styles and the fact that you haven't talked about it out loud?
You've just frustrated one another. So start to work your way through this checklist of things. Eventually, what you come down to is the substance of what you don't agree on. And from there, then you can start to work through what that is. But it's often quite small compared to what it looks like because people are not taking the time to raise and deal with conflict.
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