Chief Change Officer
#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why
Sat, 15 Feb 2025
Holly Bond, President of Facet Recruitment, is living proof that hiring is still a human game—no matter how fancy the tech gets. From her days as a franchise owner to leading in the AI hiring era, she shares the real secrets to landing (or making) the perfect hire: build real relationships, take bold risks, and never let an algorithm do all the thinking. Tune in to hear how Holly blends experience, intuition, and a dash of humor to keep recruiting refreshingly human. Key Highlights of Our Interview: From Focus Groups to Foundations “When we launched Facets, we started with brutal honesty: focus groups full of blunt feedback about recruiters. We listened, and we built a company rooted in empathy and care.” Breaking the Commission Chain “Recruiting isn’t about commissions; it’s about people. I refused to return to a model where clients matter more than candidates. Instead, I built a team paid for their passion, not percentages.” Catching What AI Misses “If AI had done my recruitment, I would’ve slipped through the cracks. Boolean searches don’t see potential outside the box. Humans do. That’s why we look beyond traditional roles, exploring adjacent sectors for talent.” Spotting the Unsung Stars “A recruiter’s superpower? Seeing someone’s potential before they do. When I reached out to a candidate in her 60s, she couldn’t believe I meant her. But age? It’s just a number—wisdom wins every time.” Putting Yourself Out There “Take risks, be bold, and let people know what you’re looking for. Whether it’s an informational interview or a thoughtful message, putting yourself out there often leads to unexpected opportunities—sometimes even before the job officially exists.” The True Value of a Strong Network “A broad network isn’t just about advancing your career; it’s about helping others too. Being able to connect someone to the right opportunity or advice is the most rewarding part of building genuine, lasting relationships.” _________________________ Connect with us: Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Holly Bond --Chief Change Officer-- Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself. Open a World of Deep Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives, Visionary Underdogs, Transformation Gurus & Bold Hearts. 6 Million+ All-Time Downloads. Reaching 80+ Countries Daily. Global Top 3% Podcast. Top 10 US Business. Top 1 US Careers. >>>100,000+ subscribers are outgrowing. Act Today.<<< --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.12 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>140,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: Why did Holly Bond return to the recruitment industry?
What made you decide to return to recruiting? And how do you want it to be different this time?
Yeah, when I talked to my friends, when I told them that I was going to do this, they all were shocked and they all laughed at me because I was a recruiter 20 years ago and there was elements that I really liked about it, but there was a lot that I didn't and I left. And I left because in recruiting, we're dealing with people.
People with families, people with emotions, and people are complex, right? At the end of the day, what we always have to remember as recruiters, people are very complex. And the parent company of my company is Royer Thompson. And Royer Thompson's been around almost 30 years. And Kim West is the president of Royer Thompson. And about seven years ago, she bought the company and she rebranded it.
She breathed a new, more innovative breath into it. And they're spectacular. The process is very filled with empathy and curiosity. And I have known Kim for years. And Kim came to me and asked me if I would open a new division of Royer Thompson, open a new, basically a new company. Royer Thompson does the C-suite, board and academia.
And when they were successfully conducting the searches, they would inevitably be asked to work on other searches, executive directors, senior managers. So that intermediate manager to more of a VP role. So we play in that space. And when she came and asked me, I said no. And I actually said no for almost two years because I remembered what it was like when I was a recruiter before.
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Chapter 2: What challenges did Holly face with traditional recruitment models?
And many recruitment companies work almost like real estate agents here in Canada, where they're paid 100% commission. So recruiters, not only do they go out and get the business, so they have to find the client. And when they find the client, that doesn't mean the client's going to give them a search. So they find the client and they have to network and build that.
When they do get a search, they place candidates and then they send the invoice and they probably get 50 to 60% of that invoice, whatever the company allows them to get. So it's very commission-based and you can make a lot of money. When I did it 20 years ago, when I was leaving, I was making a lot of money. It's very compelling, right?
And the more you do it, the more network you have, the bigger network is and the easier it is to do the searches. I remember one day I was in my office speaking to this man. He was, I remember it exactly. He was 42 years old. He did not have his degree. And at that time, I did not have my degree. I was close, but I didn't have it.
And he didn't have his degree and he was working with his company for over 20 years and he was let go. They did a restructuring and he was let go. He had a wife and a daughter and every morning they would go off to school and work. He had been traveling 80% of the time for his work. So he was getting depressed and anxious and he was frozen. He was frozen, like in a panic.
He didn't know what to do. He's in my office and he gets very emotional. And then I talked to him about how to find a job. I was going through all the steps. This is what you're going to do. And he was leaving and he said, I feel so much better. Thank you so much. He said, but I know tomorrow morning I'm going to feel like rubbish. It's this wave of panic I can't explain.
And I said, then you call me every morning. For 10 minutes, we will go over what you're going to do that day. And he called me every day for 10 minutes. And he ended up getting three job offers, none from me or my firm, but he had three job offers. And he wrote the president of my company and said how much I helped him. However, he was in my office for an hour and a half.
And the comment from one of my teammates was, this is non-revenue generating time that you just spent. And when those words were uttered, I realized I was in the wrong place because how can you possibly How can you possibly assign a dollar value to sitting in front of somebody while they're crying and they trust you so much that they're crying and they need your help?
So I realized that wasn't the space for me. So fast forward a couple, four years ago when Kim West comes to me and says, can you open a new division? And I said, absolutely not. I never, no. I know recruiters have a bad reputation and because they are commission-based, Their focus is on pleasing the client, not the candidate. We had these conversations on and off.
And then finally she said, what would it take? And I said, what it would take is for me to do it different. Hire people. I will not pay commission. We will hire people and pay them a wonderful salary. And we want them to do the job because they love it.
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Chapter 3: How does Facet Recruitment differ from traditional recruitment firms?
helping people find the place that they need to be and that they put that time in and have the empathy and the curiosity and they just do it because they love it. And so she said, okay, do that. For a lot of companies, this is what they want. And that's okay. I'm not saying the contingency recruiting is bad, but it's not for me.
But what recruiters in contingency say is, Vince, I can find that person for you, but I'm going to charge you 22, 25% of first year salary. But if I don't find that person, you don't have to pay me. So you have nothing to lose, Vince. Why wouldn't you use me?
But what that means internally to me as a recruiter, it means, Vince, I'm going to look, and if I can't find somebody really quickly, if it's really complex, if it's hard, and it's taking up all my time, I'm not going to do it because I'm not going to get the money because I'm on 100% commission, right? To me, it doesn't work when you're dealing with people.
So I came on board, I did focus groups and Vince, everything that you can possibly imagine somebody saying about a recruiter was said in that focus group. So I had 25 to 50 year olds in a focus group. They answered anonymously the questions that we had. And so the first question was, What words would you use to describe a recruiter?
And I knew it was going to be negative, most of them, but I thought it was actually quite funny, tragic, but the words that they were using, bloodsucker, just the worst words, selfish, high commission, you name it. It was, they were just not good. I had an analogy of somebody saying, a recruiter treats you like a canned good in a pantry.
They will reach in the very back of the pantry and grab you like you're an old can of beans, blow the dust, wipe the dust off the top. They will present that to the client, and if the client doesn't want that can of beans, they'll put it back in the very back of the pantry, and you will never hear from them again. And I thought that was... So when I started the company, I said, okay, that's easy.
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Chapter 4: What role does empathy play in Holly's recruitment approach?
We won't do that. That's very simple. That's easy. We'll treat candidates with the respect that they deserve and we will answer them when they email. We will answer them when they call because they don't get... answers, right? And so, yes, so we started FACET. We launched it almost two years ago.
The folks group helped with the name and then I hired my first employee and we worked on the website together. Then we hired our director and then we, all three of us were working on this. Now there's six of us and we're going to be growing in the fall. We're doing work across Canada. Now we're moving in the United States in the search of coming up soon.
We're doing it with empathy and caring for the people in their lives. I'm constantly saying, to the team. We are changing lives. So you could be sitting at your desk. You're not looking for a job. You're just existing. You're not living. You're just doing your job. And somebody calls you and you pick up the phone like happened to me. And that changed my life that day.
That person called me and said, do you know anybody that would be good for the pulp and paper industry? What if I didn't get that call Vince? What would I be doing right now? I don't even know. It's like life is pinball game, right? Where you get hit off a bumper and then you're going in a different direction. That phone call, I hit a bumper and it went off in a completely different direction.
And that's what we do for people. We send them an email or a phone call and we say, this is what we're thinking. What do you think? They're so excited that they can't believe that this is even happening. And then they go through the interview process. which we also make caring and lovely, and we hear that all the time. We hear, this has been so much fun.
When do you go through an interview and someone says, this has been so much fun? Because it should be fun. And that's how you get to know people. And there's no AI tool that can make an interview fun and where you get people to drop their guards and open up. That's when you know the real them. And when you know them as a person and as a potential employee,
Then, and it's genuine, then you know what would work best for your client. Because when you know your client really, you go, oh my gosh, that is a perfect match. It's a little bit like matchmaking, right? So we're growing so rapidly. We're having so much fun. I love it. I love it.
making that phone call and changing people's lives and telling people that push back like when you called me when you sent me a message vince and you said you should be on my podcast and i said oh i don't have anything to say that anybody would listen to and you came back to me again and i said i don't think i'm the person that should be on your podcast and you said yes that's what we do the same we say what about this opportunity and they say i don't have this and this i don't know you get them excited and then
you hold their hand and you take that next step together. And I think that's what I love about it.
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Chapter 5: How is AI integrated in Holly's recruitment process?
But she was hung up because she's in her early 60s. And I wanted to tell people, That doesn't matter. That's when you're just, you have so much mind share of what you're working on. And those are the people that I just love it. To find people that haven't really pictured themselves in that role and then to tell them the reasons why they should.
Just a few weeks ago, I released an episode where I talked to a good friend of mine, Mary Shea, who is now partnering with an AI-driven HR tech company. They help corporate recruiters and executive search firms locate desirable candidates, not just for transactional positions, but also for unique senior opportunities. In that interview, Mary explained how the technology works.
I also shared my experience at age of 51, having job interview with some corporate recruiters that felt completely dehumanized. We discussed how AI might make the experience more personalized for experienced workers. Anyone interested can check out episode four in season two. But back to you, Holly, you're very much a people person, human-centric in your view.
Not to ask you to be at Oracle, but I would like to know in your opinion, how might AI technology add value to your process of searching for the right candidates? On top of that, what do you think is the competitive advantage of you as a human recruiter that AI cannot replace?
Yes, and that, of course, is the hottest topic, I think, in every sector and every organization. And certainly with this one and both Royer Thompson and Facet, we are very aligned. I think if you're doing mass recruiting,
I think that AI would be extremely helpful, you know, so if you're, for many reasons, but I, for example, if you're opening a new Walmart in a new city, I think AI would help you immensely. If you have to hire hundreds of people, I really do. And I think AI, we are using AI at Facet. We are not built for speed. We have a process and it works and we go through that process.
So each of our searches take about 10 weeks and we have it down Perfectly. But there are places in those phases, so it's four phases that we go through, and there are certainly times where AI will help us, especially help us not miss anything, help us become more efficient. Every month we have an efficiency meeting and we always talk about AI. So with LinkedIn Recruiter, for example, that uses AI.
We will use that to help source candidates and add to our pool. You've received this, Vince, where you get a message on your LinkedIn inbox and it goes, hi, comma, and then it'll have somebody asking you if you're interested in a job. And they've sent it out to 3,000 people. That's not us. We will never do that.
We will never use the LinkedIn AI tool to have a template to send the same message to people. We will look at their background, and it does make it slower, but we're okay with that because, again, we're dealing with people. So we will look at their LinkedIn profile or their resume, and we will send a message to them, not a template.
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Chapter 6: What advantages do human recruiters have over AI?
And here is a succinct and concise description of them and their qualities and their characteristics and why they, you know, we always say, you know, we're looking for these four legs of the stool. They need to have these four things. So what is it that they have? But AI tools can really help with that. And it makes us more efficient. But
AI doesn't have, and I'm not against AI, I use ChatGPT all the time, but it doesn't have empathy and emotional intelligence. So if I, and I always think back to myself, I didn't have my degree. It never stopped me from being headhunted. It never stopped me from doing any job. I was a headhunter and didn't have my degree. And I was interviewing people that were much more well-educated than I was.
And that's why if you put in the Boolean search for your AI tool, they would never have picked me up. I would have slipped through the cracks. You need to have a human eye. And if you only look to use AI to source individuals, you are going to miss some of the most incredibly talented people for this role. So... We understand and respond to emotions, right?
And we have years of nuanced understanding. So we have this intuition that has developed as we have those trips around the sun. But AI relies on data patterns and they will miss that. There's also so many gray areas. Human beings are meant to navigate complex dilemmas and work in the gray area, but an AI can't.
When I look at a role, when we, I shouldn't say I, when we look at a role, we will say, what adjacent careers would this person have had that, and I'm going to use think outside the box, like thinking outside the box, where else could this person be? Instead of we're looking for a senior director of finance, Where else could they be? Senior director of marketing in the ocean tech sector.
But where else could they be? Could they be in the agricultural sector? Thinking outside the box and offering creative solutions that go beyond any algorithms. And then to me, the reason why you get into recruiting or the reason why you get into doing podcasts like yours is the personal connection. Building a personal relationship is uniquely human. You can inspire people.
You can transform people. You can change the trajectory of their life because you care that AI cannot. So AI to me and to my group, it should be used to make us more efficient so that we can spend more time on personal connection. That's what we're using AI for. more time with people. And you have to be a job seeker in an AI-driven market, right? So you need to know how to balance both now.
Now, you've just brought up the final question of the day. Job seekers, whether they like it or not, have to navigate an AI-driven recruitment market. Personally, I still believe in the creativity, the human creativity you mentioned. as well as the human elements that make someone stand out as a desirable candidate.
But not every recruiter is like you, and not every firm has policies and approaches like yours. So if you could give advice to job seekers, regardless of age or culture, what would it be? especially for those in their late 40s, 50s, or even 60s, who might have been in one industry for a long time, but whose skills and experiences could be applicable across different sectors.
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