Chief Change Officer
#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two
Wed, 28 May 2025
In this episode, Colin deconstructs the romanticism of “lifelong learning” and makes a sharp case for skill stacking—not as a buzzword, but as a career imperative. From the strategy rooms of Japan to the boardrooms of Canada, he unpacks the realities of navigating change in cultures, families, and workplaces. Plus, why some organizations say they want transformation but are actually addicted to the comfort of legacy systems. If you’re tired of collecting degrees that lead nowhere, this one’s for you.Key Highlights of Our Interview:The Illusion of Change-Readiness“Some companies claim they want transformation, but really, they’re just addicted to the status quo. I’ve seen firms hire me as their ‘change guy,’ only to resist every proposal I made. You can’t retrofit a new future if people are still clinging to an old playbook.”Measured, Not Maniac: Change the Japanese Way“In Japan, change isn’t chaotic—it’s deliberate, strategic, and often unspoken. Success meant listening, researching, and quietly building allies one by one. Change doesn’t have to be noisy to be real.”No More MBA Decisions in a Vacuum“Career decisions ripple through families. Too often, we forget that behind every ‘yes’ to an opportunity is a spouse, a child, or a life partner who wasn’t asked. Real transformation involves everyone at the table.”Lifelong Learning Is a Vibe—But It’s Not Enough“Learning for learning’s sake isn’t a strategy. Without direction, it becomes a distraction. The future belongs to those who don’t just keep learning, but stack those learnings to build something sharper, deeper, and more useful.”Skill Stacking vs. Degree Collecting“My bookshelf has diplomas and dust-covered guitars. Not all knowledge needs to be monetized—but if you want to be valuable in a complex world, stack your skills like a staircase. That’s how you move up and across.”Tools, But No Toolbox?“We live in a tool economy. Got a problem? There’s an app for that. But most people aren’t solving root issues—they’re patching over symptoms. Without connecting your skills with insight, it’s just noise.”Personal vs. Professional Learning“Skill stacking is for the professional you. Lifelong learning is for the human you. You don’t need to turn your love of modern African history into a job. Sometimes learning is just for joy—and that’s okay.”From Change Addict to Change Architect“I used to go full throttle. Now I slow down, talk more, and push less. Change is a collective journey. It doesn’t matter how fast you’re driving if no one’s willing to ride with you.”_________________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Colin Savage --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.18 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1.5% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>170,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: What is skill stacking and why is it important?
Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.
In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries, seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations.
From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.
From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future.
And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up, this one is a ride. Like you said, one of the threats running through your experience is change and strategy. You've worked with so many firms and organizations, guiding them through their transformations, so you must have seen countless business cases unfold.
What have you learned from these consulting projects and organizational change initiatives that could apply to individual situations? Are there lessons for these business cases that also resonate on a personal level, especially when we face dilemmas or crossroads in our own lives?
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Chapter 2: How does change management work in Japan?
One example is going to be a bit of a surprise to people because they will have read, potentially, how traditional this country is. And this is Japan. So I lived in Japan, as I mentioned, for quite a long time. And with a Japanese life insurance company, we're in Brazil. We're seeing something that's a bit unique. In Japan, one of the largest minorities are Yui, and they are people who
travel to Japan as youth. They have access to visas and other things, and they start their working life in Japan. So they're actually indoctrinated. They learn working culture from being in Japanese companies, a lot of them, and otherwise. They learn things like, hey, life insurance is important. You need to have it. The discussion went, how are we going to go build this business idea and
What came about was I learned that change, individual, team, and otherwise, comes from doing a lot of promotion. So Japan is a lot about individual conversations to get support or get direction. Big organizations are great at providing that direction, but often indirectly. You have to be acute to the change. So, hey, why don't we consider this? Why don't we do that?
But also it's measured and it's planned change. You can't just come up with an idea and throw it at people and get them to say yes or no. You've got to research your idea. This is the market size. These are the people. This is what they would buy. This is how it would benefit them if they stayed where they are or then when they moved back.
This is how we could link Dovetail or a pipeline into getting new people in a new market we might make. So it took a lot of time, but I was very surprised and very proud that we actually managed to get this kind of a lead. Yeah. We, I got support from lovely people within the organization. They provided their time to me. We moved ahead. It was just two years, but the change did happen.
And it was actually a real shining example of just because you think a culture and a group of people are traditional in their practices, doesn't mean they're averse to change. You just need to be in from that change addict thing we were talking about. Not willy nilly, not, Hey, let's just do it for the sake of doing it.
Be measured, be strategic, be researched in what you want to change and then find the kind and supportive voices. And if you find enough of them, you'll get groundswell and you'll be able to do it. If you don't, maybe your idea really isn't that great. Maybe you need to go back to the drawing board.
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Chapter 3: What lessons can we learn from organizational change?
So learn to take the interest and the novelty and the energy that comes from potential change and have it fuel huge ideas that are really important. steps, fundamental steps to maybe make that change happen. And the flip side would be actually back here in Canada. I worked for a quite traditional marketing company. Probably if I tell you who it is, people will know right away.
They brought me in as a change person. That's how I was recruited. Please come here. We know our industry is on the decline. We're not really entirely sure where to go with it. We've seen what you did in other places. We're eager to change. We want a chance where they use all the right words. They were very receptive to the idea before I moved in house.
I got in there and I asked, do you want me to be disruptive? Would you like me to push new initiatives? Absolutely. This is what we want. And within a month of me doing that, we don't really like this. or that was a little too much. The reality is they were a different kind of ad. They were hooked on a legacy of very high revenue and high profit margin.
And they weren't willing, they really weren't willing and they hadn't done the time to figure out, do we want to change? Are we willing to forego some of that to potentially make it somewhere else or maybe not? And even though they had all of the support, allegedly support from people above and their ownership and others, they were incredibly reluctant to do it.
So I was sitting in a role where change was in my title, but I couldn't do anything. And I had tried, I had built up goodwill. I had got some champions. I was doing everything that change management tells you to do. Pushing the needle here, scaling your time here. And for the time period that I was there, they were wholly unwilling to take it on.
And at a certain point I had to, you know what, it isn't going to work for me. I'm pushing the rock as ill as whatever the Greek do. And I'm not getting anywhere. And I'm being told two different stories. So we dig into it, which might have really been like an external push from other people. So we don't want to do it. And it ended up being a failure for myself.
And it's something that I had taken on and I accept. I learned a lot of really good lessons from it. And frankly, had some work with the wonderful people that were driven to do it. But when the entire organization has been dictated change, and not really trusting of the person who's supposed to pilot it, then it's not gonna happen.
But in this instance, it's a little bit about, it's maybe less about the change addict thing, but learning of how that change grow, if that's a good word or change guide, which is all right, maybe we need to take a step back, figure out what is your definition of change? Is it collectively the same?
do we all think this is a good idea okay maybe we need to tailor it a little more and then move on from there and that's hopefully where i am now and how i actually go about it a little bit more there's a little bit less less put on the gas more let's put the car in park for a second and let's have a talk we'll drive a block down the road and then we're going to have another talk
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Chapter 4: Why is lifelong learning not enough for success?
My neck is hurting from how much I'm nodding for your example, because one of the reasons and one of the benefits that I've had and the partner that I'm with, and she's actually been my sage. She's been my guide. The example that you with somebody from China wanting to do an MBA, they're married and what are they going to do? I have basically dragged my partner and then our kids.
around the world. It was only until sort of the last one or two times that I realized I need to sit down and I need to talk to her. I need to ask her, what are you, what do you think about it? It's not just me moving for a job and to be the traditional one at the time, but not anymore, but the breadwinner for Hubli. She has been the one that said, okay, so we're moving.
All right, where are we moving? And then hit the ground running. And it was only later on the last couple of times that I've asked and I'm concerned about this, or I'm not sure how that's going to work or what are we going to do in this instance? And a lot of the things she's done is really ground.
or why we were going to go and move somewhere, why we were going to make a significant change in our lives. To your example, I'm going to take it on and then everything's going to be hunky-dory and we're all going to be happy. And, but they weren't, they didn't know that they could voice it. And so now it's more like a collective.
So now we're sitting around in Canada and we're thinking, so what's the next step? And my first step now is to go and talk to my two teenage sons and my wife and say, Hey guys, what do you think about this? And the reality is, whatever our age is and wherever our life has taken us, They'll come up with questions and problems and scenarios or that's a challenge, that's difficult.
And you've got to be a little bit more soul searching to figure out, is this really right for me? Is this really what should happen? And if it doesn't, how is it going to go and how can I deal with it as and where it goes?
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Chapter 5: How do personal decisions impact professional growth?
Actually, you have so many degrees that people often ask me, Vince, are you collecting degrees? I usually laugh it off and say, no, I have three. And I talk each one very seriously. I don't even bother explaining why I pursued two MBAs anymore. But looking at you, Colin, you have even more. Would you consider yourself a lifelong learner? I imagine you have some strong opinions on that term.
A lot of people lean on lifelong learning when they are at the crossroads or want to make a change in their lives. They fall back on education, upskilling, retooling, whatever the buzzword of the day might be. But you've shared some interesting ideas with me about skill stacking and how that might offer a more impactful approach. So what do you think of lifelong learning as a concept?
How do you see it evolving and where does skill stacking fit into the equation?
Very recently, I found myself, and I think I, this also leads a little bit to my love for novelty. I don't think a day goes by where I don't find the topic that I go, Hey, you know what? I should really study that. And then I go on, I start to spend 10 minutes looking for universities where I could go on.
I could, I mean, and I don't know if I'm ever actually going to get over that practice, but to, to talk to your specific comment about light flaw in the learning to skill stacker. So I am the, the product to academic people. And so both of my parents were educators. They both were educators at all different levels. They were both academically inclined. And so was our family.
And it was ingrained in us very young in two ways. And the first one was we always had a room in our house that was more our study than den. It was a room where there was a lot of books. lot of things on the wall, inspirational quotes, all that kind. And my parents often argued about who got to use the big desk and do their writing and do their research and whatever else.
And on one of the walls were all of their degrees. So that's it from a very early age, I'd look up at a wall and I'd see lots of people with paper and very nice brain. Oh, what are those? Well, that's my degree in education. So that was the first. And then the second one was, and this came more from from a grandparent who actually didn't have a lot of education.
He would relay to us as a little kid all the time. You know what? Like somebody can, they can take away your house. They can take away your possessions. They can take away your money. They can take away your family. They can take your health. They can do all that kind of stuff. The only thing that they cannot take away from you is your education. And so I still believe that.
I still believe that's very true. And so anyway, from a long, from my early age with those kind of two things, It was education is important, right? And you should constantly be learning, right? And I didn't know at the time that you have to constantly be learning. Now it's related to keeping technology and technological advances and things like generative AI that I'm now studying.
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Chapter 6: What are the challenges of implementing change in traditional organizations?
It was more like you just should keep learning all the time. My parents were very flexible and it didn't really matter what. But it was important that it was with somebody who knows it, so there was an expert. And at the end, there was going to be some kind of written comment. There was going to be a degree, a diploma, letters behind your name, whatever it is. So that's lifelong learning.
For me, there's continually learning from established institutions, programs, gathering up the diploma and other things. And really, the area doesn't matter. Lifelong learning, learn whatever. But lifelong learning is, I think it's an outdated concept and particularly because it just lacks focus. I may be an example of that.
And that's where I studied English literature, I studied philosophy, I studied liberal art. Then I went to Japan and then I did a master's degree in modern Japanese literature. Okay, there's a little bit of a connection there with literature, but different cultures, different languages. Then I go to the UK and I do a master's degree in social anthropology in South D.C. learning Burmese.
I lived in lots of countries, but that's where the interesting cultures, the people come from. I can back up again in hindsight, I can connect them, but they didn't really have a focus on building expertise. They were disjointed variety of individual levels or understanding and mastery of skills and discipline. And then I had to actually build pathways to connect.
And one of the pathways that helped me do that was doing an MBA at Durham in the UK. And so I connected intersectional anthropology, I connected multi-generational stuff, and I connected performance management for business to figure out a metric to understand how to support multi-generational organizations with different levels of performance management and guidance. But it wasn't purposeful.
Fast forward a few years. Now we're into the pandemic. I'm living here in Canada. I'm sitting like most of us were in our own little home office. I'm going through things like LinkedIn learning in other places. And I'm noticing connectivity between, hey, what if I learn
how to be better at doing online presentation and whatnot from the short course, then I can use the skills that I've learned as a lecturer to maybe coach it in-house in my company. So everybody will be better at sitting in virtual meetings.
Hey, there's this new performance management tool online, because we're all living remotely, so we're worried about efficiency and all of those kinds of things. How could I learn the technology behind it to maybe adapt it so we can add it to the practices we have in comp, that are still a little bit traditional, paper-based. building and building and building.
So what happened was I'm not entirely sure that stacking is the right word. I think it's more like staircase. And you've got overlapped half or a little bit more, but then you branch off into new areas. But you're constantly building it up. And now to round off my comment, now I'm learning for the last two years generative AI and the blurred large language model development.
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Chapter 7: How does family dynamics affect career decisions?
It lacks focus for some people where the skill stacking is a little more concentrated and it will help you really build the keys. But again, it's not going to be specific in an area, but you can apply it across. swath of area, and it'll really help you advance your career and invent whatever you want to do to be a standout kind of person.
I kind of agree or disagree with what you just said. Lifelong learning is about the attitude, in my opinion. Lifelong learning isn't just about acquiring new knowledge. It's about figuring out how you learn best. Some people thrive in classroom settings or in-person workshops, while others prefer self-paced digital formats.
The methods vary, but the goal is the same, which is to keep growing, to keep learning. When it comes to skill stacking, I see it as something deeper. you mentioned is about purposefully merging diverse skills to solve complex challenges. And I think you're right. What's often missing isn't the means to learn. We have more access than ever to tools, training, and knowledge.
The gap lies in connecting the dots between those skills and leveraging them in meaningful ways to multiply the impact. In my view, we are living in a tool economy, tool, T-O-O-L. Everything is about the tool, whether it's ChatGPT today, Google yesterday, or whatever the next hot thing will be. The mindset is, if you have a problem, there's a tool for that. Need a solution?
Just grab a hammer, a screwdriver. What is the problem? Most of the time, those tools are just solving surface-level symptoms, not addressing the deeper underlying issues. It is like putting a band-aid on a cut without treating the infection. Sure, the immediate problem looks solved, but the root cause persists, and people end up repeating the same mistakes.
I see this pattern a lot, especially among knowledge workers. They buy into the idea of lifelong learning, sign up for courses, pay for certifications, and stack up all these skills. But they don't actually go anywhere with them. Why? Because the key isn't just acquiring skills,
is in connecting them, applying them to real-life scenarios, case by case, and solving problems with them in an integrated manner. So the missing piece is less about technical skills and more about human skills, what most people call solved skills. Problem solving, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, communication. These are the connective tissue that make skill stacking impactful.
Without them, you're just collecting tools in a toolbox. You don't know how to use effectively. That's where I think the future of lifelong learning needs to focus. Not just teaching new skills, but on helping people build the connections between them and apply them in meaningful, impactful ways. It's not about the tools themselves. It's about what you build with them.
I agree. Yeah. You, you have brought the other hand that I'm not going to say that I forgot, but what I would add to what you're saying and wait the court in the skill stacking, I differentiate between calling the person and calling the professional all the time. So skill stacking, those are skills back for my calling the person that's where lifelong learning for me and always grow.
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Chapter 8: What is the future of learning and skill development?
It just drives me nuts. And so we're just going to end up with now the toolkit is going to have 7,000 tools, 6,800 of which I don't know how to use, and 50 that are actually useful for me to figure out any kind of a dilemma that I'm referring to. I think, yeah, I think you've done a good job of reminding me that Maybe the lifelong learning thing should be just for life.
And the skill stacking should be where we focus on potentially getting the right kind of multi-skilled person who to your point, doesn't just look down and build a tool, but is able to interact with others, is able to be empathetic, show emotional intelligence, all those kinds of things.
And I think maybe sometimes get sharp to the side over the let's build the technical experience, scale ourselves up with now I know not just C++, but I also know all of these other JavaScript and other kind of software so I can build my own AI market. Let's go, right?
Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.