Josh
Appearances
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
To kind of circle back to a talking point in the podcast, I'd just like to find more congruence between how I show up and then how I feel. And then for that to feel like it's enough and not that it needs to be different or it needs to change.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say a majority of them, yes.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think frustration is good because when I, you know, I've worked really hard on a lot of things for five, 10 years, and that frustration has pushed me to keep working on it.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That's a great thing.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It does... Give me that ability to start working on something that I'm very fearful of. We talked about statistics and to tackle a big project. I feel very anxious that I'm not capable and prepared. But that anxiety on the other side of it is, well, I should do it to be able to. Or I could do it to be able to then learn it and understand it and become more proficient at it.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And it probably keeps me from doing anything that would actually be hurtful or like something that would actually like put me at risk. So it does keep me safe.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That's very important.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That's very powerful, yes.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would say the thing that overwhelmingly comes to mind is that I really care about other people.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would say it shows me that I have... high expectations that I can achieve something and can be successful at what I do and work toward, and that I'm just on one side of it or experiencing the side where I'm working toward that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's very powerful.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's very important.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's very important that I...
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
like experience sadness um because i can also experience and understand other people who are going through the same thing so my mom um is having a bunch of tests done to figure out why she's having certain symptoms and to be able to empathize with her um and kind of share my feelings about what she's going through is very important to me well yeah that is that a beautiful thing
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, it's very beautiful.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, that's right.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I would say guilt is... The thing I appreciate about it is that it shows me that I can do something else to... You know, I can live up to the expectations that I've set for other people and for myself. So I can accomplish real. I can have really big achievements and I can find success. I don't like shame as much. Shame just generally feels bad.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So I don't know how many positives I can find in that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's kind of that same idea as guilt. It allows me to improve in areas that I feel like I have a lot of room to grow. So it shows me... You're honest. Yes. Yeah, that's exactly right.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's humbling. I think it allows me to keep a so-called level head and realize everyone's going through similar things, everyone's struggling, and that inadequacy is part of understanding that there are a lot of similarities.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's allowed me to develop a lot of independence and allowed me to have so many experiences that I don't think I would have had if I wouldn't have felt lonely and sought out community and things that I think would help me develop as a person and become more capable.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
They don't sound very good. I would say they allow you to kind of function around other people in more socially desirable ways.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's very important. Yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I think that's right.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would say it's another driving force. It really pushes me to do everything in my power. prevent it, basically, to restore hope.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. One, it was it was kind of nerve wracking for me to ask if we could we could do that. But I thought it'd be really fun because I listened to you on the psychiatry and psychotherapy podcast. You had a fantastic interview with Dr. David Pewter and you talked about imposter syndrome and vulnerability. And I was like, oh, that would be really fun to almost recreate that on my podcast as well.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Kind of struggling to come up with something else.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That's very important.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I think that would be one of the most important parts of it.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I chose that I have, I think it shows also that I have high expectations and that I can see things through and be, I can, I can be successful. Um, and that anger is a part of like almost the friction of not, not, not achieving it, um, or being able to do it. Um, so it's kind of in line with frustration and anger is something that in my childhood I felt like was just
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
solely negative and solely kind of like used in a really kind of like aggressive judgmental way. And I think having it in this context is way more helpful.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
They're very real, yes.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Incredibly powerful.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Very important, yes.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And I went into it really nervous and kind of unsure. And honestly, having the ability to experience that firsthand just connected so many of the dots around the concepts you discuss at length in the podcast and in your books, which I found very helpful for myself. So I thought it was an absolute honor and really insightful and helpful to get a good sense of what those techniques really mean.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I would agree with that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
The number that comes to mind is around 20.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Is that enough? I think that's plenty, yes.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
You know, I've experienced a little bit of sadness during our conversation when you relayed stories about people you've worked with and their life experiences. And that was really beautiful, actually, to do that on the podcast. I would say maybe a 10 or 15. 10 to 15, yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say that's probably 15 as well.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Like 10. Is that enough inadequacy? I think that's plenty. I think, yeah, I think that's plenty. Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say 20. I'd say 20. I think loneliness is a good driver of kind of getting out and exploring the world.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
20.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Maybe 5. Anger doesn't feel as helpful.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say I'm not attractive.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
100%.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say that's like 90%.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That's probably 90% too.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's like 85%.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yes.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Because it's assuming that for all of the people who exist to perceive me, I'm saying that no one would find me attractive.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Because I would be assuming that people have the same... Preferences and standards. Yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
People have people there, you know, individual differences, really powerful and very real. So I think everyone's, you know, everyone has their own preference and own thoughts.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, it's an unrealistic standard.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Because, I would say, because it's untrue. So it's adhering to something that's untrue.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Makes me, I'm not sure I have a good answer for that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That sounds great.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay. Let's say Corey. Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, of course.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think you look great. I think you're a very attractive person.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I'm being honest with you.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Maybe 50.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Huh? What's that?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay. Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay. I'll start off as the negative Joshua.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yes, of course.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I do know who you are.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. I think that's untrue. I think you're just being very critical for no reason and just trying to bring me down.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think I won that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say big. Big or huge? I'd just say big.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
You know, Joshua, you... You're disfigured, and because of that, you're unlovable. And that's an unavoidable thing you're going to have to deal with.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
The last thing I think we talked a lot and I'm kind of a little nervous to ask this, but we talked a lot about team. Could we role play a little bit to give an idea to the listeners of what that is actually like?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, so you had acne growing up, and now you have scars as a result, and that makes you look different from everyone else.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
What's that, Joshua?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So who won? You won. Big or small? It was big. Big or huge? It was massive.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
There was a lot of acceptance there. There was acknowledgement of things that you've done, I've done. And it was just... felt so authentic and so um so okay with you know the way things are and um controlling the controllables and um not letting that get in your way and be something that's like defeating and draining
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, that's right.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, actually, that, you know, I just checked the time, and very sadly, I do need to end this conversation and... It's been fantastic, and I don't want to say it's been a dream, but to be able to talk to you and experience this, David, has been a tremendous opportunity.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So if they haven't listened to a podcast, they would have a sense of what they could expect.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay, I can do two minutes, yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. Well, even if he is trying to bullshit me, it's okay to have what are thought of as flaws. And there are plenty of things that I have going for me that provide a lot of richness and value to my life. And those... make me more attractive to people and provide me with a sense of meaning and really allow me to then help and contribute to the lives of other people.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So regardless of any superficial appearances, that doesn't define me as a person.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say that I won. Big or small? I'd say big. Big or huge? I'd say huge.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, well, I could fail at what I'm currently doing, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be successful in any other host of possibilities and avenues of becoming a professional or providing for a family or contributing to the lives of my family and friends. So defining success in a very small way, I might fail.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
But broadly, I think I'm going to live a life that I ultimately want to live because I'm working hard at it and I have a lot of things going for me.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I think that's untrue. I might struggle and I might have to work hard to kind of get out of that sometimes. But I think ultimately I'm going to be happy and I'm going to be fulfilled and I'm going to be surrounded by people that I love and people who love me. And that is worth more than any superficial success or failure.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think I'm winning. Big or small? I'd say I'm winning big. Big or huge? Huge.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I don't feel anxious at all. Let's say zero.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Zero.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Zero.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Zero.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Zero. Embarrassed. Zero, surprisingly, for doing this on a podcast.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Zero.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Zero. And angry. Zero. I think that would be a negative if it could be.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'll be sure to reach out. I'm going to share everything that you have worked on, all the projects you have going on, all the all the products. And I hope people really do check out the podcast you produce. Check out the books you've written and check out the app. Feeling great. It's been an absolute honor. You're a legend. And, you know, you've taught me more in this two hour podcast than ever.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think almost anyone else has ever taught me about just being, you know, so warm and caring.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, it's great to see both of you as well. David, you're looking handsome as always. And Rhonda, you're looking incredible as well. Thank you. Tell us more. The one thing – I've reflected on this quite a bit and I've given it a lot of thought knowing that we were going to discuss it. And on my end, like what has it changed for me?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And has there been something that's been overwhelming enough to like, oh, wow, I can see this as a difference in my life. And the first thing I want to say – is the importance of actually experiencing the techniques.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So I've listened to over 250 episodes of the podcast and actually engaging in them with you, David, was incredibly insightful and almost like unlocked some secret to it, which is the positive reframing component for me has been a game changer.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And as someone, um, in graduate school, someone who has, you know, full-time job, a graduate assistantship, and then a course load on top of that, plus whatever research and work, other work obligations, seeing anxiety as a positive has been very helpful from just not seeing it as overwhelming and disruptive. Um, and seeing it as something like, Oh, this is good.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'm glad it's here because now this project I need to work on, um, I'll actually start working on it rather than just being anxious and wondering like why I'm overwhelmingly feeling anxious. I think being able to pin those emotions, um, to something and saying it's having an impactful or important role and getting me to do that or accomplish that or, or, or see it through. Um,
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
has been incredibly helpful. And if I can just relate a short story, I was getting a tattoo the other day and I kind of thought to myself like, wow, I wish this didn't hurt so much. And then I reframed it as I'm glad this hurts because if it didn't, that would probably be a big, a big issue if I could just get stabbed with a needle and not feel anything.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Um, so I thought that that specific aspect was really impactful for me as reframing anxiety and sadness as, as things that have
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I would say it's also I've noticed that, you know, different points in my life I've been able to be more accepting of certain qualities and features that I have. And, you know, if people people have gotten to this point, they've listened to our conversation and being able to.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
talk about how i feel about my my looks and appearance openly like that um that was actually something i've never really done and then oh wow yeah yeah and i would always skirt around it so i'd had therapists in the past where you know maybe i'd mention it and they would kind of allow me to skirt around it a little bit and feel comfortable not really divulging all the details um
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Being able to directly kind of be face-to-face with that, so to speak, kind of made it so I feel comfortable telling other people that more casually now. So I was talking to a friend and kind of mentioned like, oh, yeah, like I've had trouble accepting my appearance, thinking I'm ugly or whatever it is.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And it's like that's reduced the initial inability to talk about it or the shock of having to kind of come face-to-face with it. So I found that pretty powerful.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Oh, incredibly so, because I don't I don't really think about my appearance now. I just think about like with this, you know, if I want to talk to someone who I would be interested in, do we connect as people? Not am I attractive enough to be to warrant a relationship or to have?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That's right.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Well, and I've noticed that when I had that, when I would hold on to that flaw too much and try to hide it, I would be very judgmental towards others.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, it's it's liberating from the perspective of I've been able to do a lot of really cool stuff. And I like I've been able to, you know, develop a great podcast and I've been able to kind of pursue my education. I've been able to coach people to, you know, top five or whatever in the nation. And it's not that I'm defined by those things, but it's really cool.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I've been able to do it and then know that I'm capable of doing that instead of... It's like this weird thing where all I wanted to do was get a PhD. And when I got into the program, I could feel myself diminishing it. Like, oh, well, this one doesn't count. And being able to address that not good enough component and be like, actually... it is, it is good enough.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
You know, it is like, it is what I need and what's right for me. Um, that's been really liberating. I guess that's like the word of it, but it just feels good. Um, Rather than kind of that imposter syndrome. And it's not that I don't feel that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I mean, when I was when I great David graciously allowed me to be in the Tuesday group and I felt that's the immediate sensation I had was I'm just why am I here? Who am I? What have I done? What do I know? But instead of giving into that, it's like, OK, I'll just contribute where I can and listen to people who know a lot and, you know, see what see what it's all about.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I loved it personally because I think going like a deep dive into a technique, which was the achievement addiction and then in watching you and Jill role play and then talk through different scenarios or how it could be, you know, reversed and then having everyone break out and then practice themselves, I thought was very, very insightful.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And, you know, as someone who really appreciates like a lot of context and information, I felt like I was you know, a lot more understanding of something like achievement addiction after the fact. So I thought it was fantastic. And I can only imagine how beneficial it would be if you covered, you know, all of the techniques or, or, you know, as many as you could come up with really.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So I thought it was a great addition to.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Oh, you remember? I can't remember her name. I do remember there's a woman who was Australian in the group. Oh, yeah. And then there's a guy who was a general, like, I think it was a physician, like a general practitioner. And I think maybe Libby might have been a woman who was also in the group. But the leader, her name just escapes me.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Oh, it was great. It was so much fun.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So I thought, again, it's interesting because I've seen a therapist for months and months and months, and I've had one prior to the one I'm currently seeing. And I felt like we never really were able to sink our teeth into the distortion that I have. There's this idea of like acceptance and acceptance.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I even ended up listening to a book that she recommended about acceptance, like the heart of the Buddha or something. I don't remember exactly what it was called, but I never felt like there was always a gap between being accepting and like cognitively knowing I should accept myself. And that was because I, I don't think we really had any like techniques or really practice make it stick.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
If that makes sense.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So like actually engaging with it with you, David, and engaging with the distortions really helped me feel what that was actually like versus just like intellectualizing it.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay. I will say I'm not good enough is one that probably is like an overarching.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay. Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I've had many. I would say that I struggle with... self-esteem and self-worth. And, uh, I have this overarching or overwhelming feeling that I won't be successful and I won't kind of live the life that I would like to live.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think I'm hopeless is one that I often come back to. That's like a general distorted thought.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, and right before I do that, I want to say the fact that I'm having a harder time thinking of distorted thoughts now probably speaks to our experience together. It's like, ah, I haven't really thought about that stuff since.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So I would say, yeah, the treatment didn't work.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It didn't work on me. I'm different. There's something special about me that won't allow it to change my thoughts.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would like to start with the thoughts about, oh, this therapy or this treatment wouldn't work.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. I think she would hit harder.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. Well, I understand that I could be depressed and feel down at some point. And, you know, I'm okay with that because I think there are a lot of positives that come from feeling down and feeling sad. And... You know, kind of in knowing that, I also know that eventually I'm going to feel better because things tend to work like that. Like I felt bad in the past and I've felt better afterward.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So while that's true, I don't think it's, you know, reason enough for me to identify myself as someone who's just going to be depressed or going to be sad.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would say that I won that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I felt like it was large.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I mean, I felt like it was huge. I think if I told myself that, I'd be very convinced.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. Yeah. maybe I will be hopeless and maybe I will be hopeless for the rest of my life. And, you know, I guess that's something I can live with and something I can be okay with. Um, and, um, regardless, I still get to, I still get to do the things that I love to do and still get to, to be a part of a community of great people that I have, you know, next to me. Um,
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So even if I feel hopeless, I can still share experiences with people and still share my life with them.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think I won.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I didn't feel as confident in that one.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay. Joshua, I know you, uh, have been feeling hopeless and that feeling's never going to go away because you're just not really, uh, worth having any hope. You just, it's just, it's something that you're never going to encounter.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I thought you won that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say big.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would say huge. And the reason why I would say that is I connected with, maybe I tend to feel this way, or maybe this does come up for me often. Yeah. And that acceptance of it not being permanent, and then also there are great things they get to be involved with and accomplish and do. That really could, for me, put a really nice spin on it.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
All right, Joshua. Here's the... cold, hard truth. You're always, yeah, I love truth.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. So you're just, you're meant to be hopeless. There's no way you're ever going to experience any form of hope. And that's just the burden you have to bear.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I thought that was great.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
No, I don't think you're going to be hopeless for the rest of your life. I think it's just a feeling that you're having. And it's not at all reflective of who you are, not at all reflective of what you've done, not at all reflective of your background, your upbringing, any of that. I think it's just a transient thing you're going to experience.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And eventually, you're going to be out of that and into greener pastures.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's absolutely true, 100%.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That's true.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. That was great.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. Well, what, what specifically isn't good enough?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. Yeah. I would, I just curious because, um, if, if I don't know, then there's something I can't work on or, or, or change. Um, And if I know, and I don't want to change it, then that's, that's perfectly okay too.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I won that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think it was large. Large or huge? Huge. Because when I know there's something specific, I, I feel like I have the power to change it. Um, And to relate this just to weightlifting a little bit, I like to look at those problems in the same way. It's like if I know why we're not making progress or seeing a result, I can change it and I can have a hand in that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
If you're just saying this is bad, that doesn't tell me, it doesn't give me a bunch of information. If you just say it's good too, it doesn't give me a bunch of information. It's like what specifically is good about it, what specifically is bad or could be changed.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Thank you.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
What's that?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'll have to put that quote on my podcast.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. Well, I mean, personally, I like being different. I think it makes the world a more interesting place. And I think that difference is going to allow me to kind of stand out and be a really valuable part of, you know, the world. the people I coach and the friends and family that I have. Um, and I don't think that means the treatment isn't going to work because I'm different.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Um, I just think it means that I have a unique skillset and, and, uh, ability to, to kind of be a part of the communities I'm in. So, yeah, I think, I think it's going to work.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I won.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say big.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say huge.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Well, I think what I'm really appreciative of and what I found very useful is that I don't know if I had heard the relapse prevention training before.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
uh like example on the podcast so to experience it actually was very very helpful because those thoughts about the treatment not working are the exact same as the thoughts that preceded the treatment about myself yeah they're no different and they're using the same tools and techniques to say like uh this isn't really like something i have to take as truth at face value yeah
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And I think it's important that you brought that up because when I first started coaching, I focused on kind of the sets and reps and performance. And now I'm just so people focused that like the performance matters. If I'm coaching, say, coaching Danny Myers, she placed fifth in the nation twice in a row. So last year she was fifth. This year she was fifth. Performance definitely matters.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
But how she feels like. Per as a person matters first. And then we can layer on the means and methods because that stuff's just I mean, it's it's kind of like stress. It's stimulus response. You do something, you get a response. But making sure the person who's carrying that out is cared for and taken care of, to me, is the most important thing. Yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I haven't always been like that, but I think the resources you put out, David, the resources great people like Stephen Hayes have put out and all the kind of the psychologists I've listened to and read about. It's reminded me that, you know, people are at the heart of this and then performance is just kind of like an adjunct to that. So I would say it's I'd say it's very, very important.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, thank you both so much. It's an honor. David, you're a role model to so, so many. And Rhonda, you're an absolute great host and contributor. Much appreciated.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, related to intimate connections, I won't find love, like romantic love. Mm-hmm.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Thank you both.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I it's kind of hard to say on a podcast. I think I'm ugly. So I think I'm not attractive and worth being with.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
They're very defeating. They feel like even if I were to intellectualize them and reject them, that it's just true regardless.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, it makes me feel hopeless.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would say yesterday I felt probably like a 90 to 95 for various reasons, but I'd say it definitely contributes to I deal with anxiety quite a bit. A 95. How sad and down? I would say probably the same, 90, just thinking about the trajectory of my life and where it's going.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yes, I'd say I feel probably like 85, 90 with those as well. Okay, 85 to 90 on guilt and shame.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
85.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say 85. 85.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
A little bit less. I'd say 70.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
75.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would say those are probably the overwhelming feelings, shame, embarrassment, hopelessness.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I would say that that's very accurate. I. Yeah, I think like there's an aspect of like loneliness and maybe being understood and. Yeah. I know that people very close to me, like my best friends, I can talk to them and they'll empathize. But professionally, it's hard to hard to communicate that and feel authentic and be able to show up in a way that I'm actually feeling.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I feel like you have to wear a mask and put your best clothes on, so to speak. And that that makes it even more difficult. I would just rather tell someone like I am really struggling and doing the best I can.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Go ahead and I'll wait.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Well, just to cut to the chase here a little bit, if you're on high doses of benzodiazepine, certainly don't try to treat yourself, but do it in conjunction with a medical doctor. What's the best way for you to taper?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
One other thing that you said that took me aback a little bit, you said, if I heard correctly, that if someone comes into the emergency room with a panic attack, instead of giving them a 30-day dose of benzos, you should refer them to a psychiatrist for CBT. And I don't think there are – there's only one psychiatrist in the United States who's good at CBT. And he doesn't do CBT anymore.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
He does team, which is awesome. And his name is Matt May. But I don't think there's a lot of psychiatrists who would – use psychotherapy rather than just more drugs.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And if I was in an emergency room, I'd want to be able to refer people with anxiety or depression to psychologists and clinical social workers and people who have expertise in team CBT or traditional CBT rather than people who were trained mainly to prescribe medications.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Awesome point. Let's look at Gray's intriguing question about music. And thank you for that detailed expertise, Matt. Much appreciated.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
No, it wasn't.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Josh. Well, thank you so much, Josh, for those kind comments. And I think we have a question from you, too, or maybe that's just the endorsement that I wrote. But it means a lot to get the question. Three is the Josh. Thanks, David, for techniques. And so maybe that's that that is that that third question there. But I really appreciate that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Well, I'll give my answer first because it's very short. Usually I give my answer last. But I agree with Gray that music can be beautiful, especially the songs we love, the certain songs for each of us just fill our heart with so much peace or sadness or beauty. And And that can be a magical and emotional experience.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I don't think we have to look for thoughts in the form of sentences to explain our reaction to music. I'm not aware of thoughts triggering the reaction to music. I once asked Beck, you know, aren't there perceptions other than like a sentence with a negative or positive thought that can figure our emotions? And he said, yes, cognitive therapy is not about thoughts. It's about perceptions.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And, for example, in anxiety, the perception that makes you anxious might be a picture in your mind. Let's say you have a fear of elevators. You may picture that elevator closing off. And so you're terrified of elevators, thinking that the walls are going to crush you or the oxygen is going to disappear or you're going to get trapped. And you kind of picture this.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And I thought that was very liberating that cognitive therapy is all about, it should be called perception therapy. And I guess you could say that music is a kind of auditory perception that can move our hearts or anger us to warfare, you know, that there's a lot of kinds of emotional reactions to music.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And that's about all I have to say, because I don't have expertise in this particular area, but I thought it was a really neat question.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And remember that we have a podcast on the four techniques for working with anxiety. The hidden emotion is certainly an important one, but it's only one of four. And if you want to get complete elimination of anxiety, and you may be doing this already, but you want to use not only hidden emotion model, but the motivational model, the cognitive model, and the exposure model. As well.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Maybe that book is good. When I hear a question like that, I have a very powerful answer. I don't know. Yeah. When people try to explain things in words that don't make any sense to me, I'd rather just say, I don't know. There's a lot of things we don't know. And just because we're a psychiatrist or a psychologist or whatever doesn't mean that we have special insights into everything.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, that's right. There we go.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Right. That's a beautiful Buddhist thought. But what does it have to do with music? I know.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah. Okay. Well, let's bullshit on some other topic. By the way, I see that Josh's question, that was the beautiful endorsement you wrote, was the third question.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And I have an additional partial answer for Josh, and that you'd be welcome, because you are a mental health professional, and all strengths who are listening, whether you're a pastoral counselor, a psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker, whatever, if you're doing clinical work, You'd be welcome to join either my Jill Levitt and my Tuesday group at Stanford or Rhonda's Wednesday group.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Oh, in November.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
So, yeah. And then your group is once every other week. No, no. It's every week.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Did you think we were talking about you, Rhonda?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah. Well, you can give that information in a minute. But when is your group meet, Matt?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
So we'll put the contact information for all three of us. And Rhonda, you can add the contact information for your group, who is Anna Teresa. Is she still the contact person? Yes. Yeah. And we'll put that in. And then ours is Ed Walton for our Tuesday group for 5 to 7 p.m. That's the Stanford group. And Matt, you'll see his website and email too in the context.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
So if you are a shrink, we would love to have you join us for a period of time or a long period of time. And we practice team CBT techniques. Okay, on to question number four.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But thank you so much because we do share our best for free. And when someone like you writes in and says, hey, the message is getting through, thank you. That means a tremendous amount to all of us. So thank you so much.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Okay, I'll let you two take first crack at this, and then I'll come in at the end. If you like, if you want to answer it. I have some thoughts on that. How about you, Rhonda?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Okay, Matt, take it away. What's your thoughts for Harold?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
That's great. I love your answer, Matt. That's brilliant. I might add that if some of our listeners are interested in taking a look at the Feeling Great app, we have a class in there called Your PhD in Shoulds and talk about specific techniques to get rid of self-directed shoulds like I shouldn't be so screwed up, I should be better than I am, etc.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Other directed shoulds, when you're telling yourself person X, Y, or Z is a jerk, he shouldn't be that way, he's got no right to be that way. And then world directed shoulds, which is kind of like the ones you have, life shouldn't have so much suffering and so little joy. So that's my first point. My second... I mean, you really hit the nail on the head there, Matt.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
That was brilliant, what you said. I loved it. The second thing, I wrote back and told Harold, if he were in a session with me, how I would respond to him, or if we were just friends talking. And that's the... The Maury anti-moaner technique that is described in Feeling Good.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
When someone is just complaining, complaining, complaining, I respond with the disarming technique, thought and feeling empathy, I feel statement, stroking and inquiry. I don't try to help the person. And I give some examples in the show notes. Like if you be... In fact, let's just demonstrate it.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I'll be Harold and one of you can be the friend and modify how to respond to a complainer using the five secrets. Does either of you want to give it a try?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
You know, life is just so much suffering and so little joy. That's so true.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Okay, what grade did you give yourself?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yes, I agree. And I thought that you didn't try to help. You were just a good listener. And the big mistake that everyone makes, except for you, Matt, and a few other people in the world, is they try to help the person or encourage the person or solve the problem. That forces the whiner, the complainer, just to keep going. To keep complaining.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
So that's how I would handle it on an interpersonal level. What I also said to Harold, and let me go back to my notes here, is that this is nearly always a hidden emotion problem.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
When someone is obsessing about the meaning of life or some vague thing, there's often something real in their life that they're upsetting about, that they're not confronting, they're not dealing with, and instead they're just kind of complaining about life in general. And the solution is often to find the thing that you're really kind of upset about.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And I exchanged a couple emails with Harold, and what turned out is he had made a kind of a common error in dating and got rejected. And what it appeared to be is that he was talking to some woman, and was saying, you know, would you like to go out sometime?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And she said, yes, but when he tried to pin her down, she said, oh, I have to check my schedule, and I'll get back to you in about a week or so. And he agreed to that. And she's really giving him the runaround, and he's falling for it. And I don't mean to blame women. Women will do that. Men will do that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But that's something you don't want to fall for, that kind of thing, and get out of that situation. Because what happened then, that she just made him wait a week, and then she didn't contact him, and then he contacted her back. And then she said no at that point. And so he just kind of had a week of his life scooped out. And you don't want to give someone that kind of control over you.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And, you know, when people are having trouble with dating, you know, I sometimes suggest the book... intimate connections, which he'd actually said he'd read three times, which I was really, really proud of him.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And then maybe get a colleague or something, a therapist or a friend who's pretty good in the dating arena and learn a bit more about dating strategies, because there's a lot to learn about it and to focus on the real problems in your life. But there's a lot of other techniques one can use in addition to the ones we've talked about here.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I want to say that I admire Harold because he's put in tremendous effort into his personal recovery efforts. And I've never met anyone who put in that kind of effort who didn't get really good results that just really trying will eventually open the door you're looking to. You're looking to get open. But it can be frustrating.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I know I was really lame in the dating world myself for a long time and everything I did was incorrect. and eventually I kind of found a mentor who was, you know, well, let's say a shameless womanizer, so everyone will hate me for saying that, but he was. He was Palo Alto's, you know, most famous womanizer, and women used to say how awful he was.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
All he cared about was sex, but he used to go around just picking up women, All day long. And behind his back, they'd tell him, talk about how awful he was. But when he was around, they always wanted to be around him. And he was having a pretty good time.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Well, it's fun to get a note all the way from Bangladesh. It seems impossible, but life has gotten so amazing with all kinds of wonderful and awful as well, unexpected things happening all around the world. I'll give my answer quickly and then see what additional things Matt might have or... You, Rhonda, might have.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And he took me under his wing and kind of gave me a lot of pointers and tips on how you date and what that world is like and what works and what doesn't work. That was the thing I loved most. the most when I was in clinical practice because 60% of my patients were single and didn't know how to get into the dating scene.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And I learned so much from that fellow who in my book I called Bill to disguise his identity, but his real name was Michael. But I couldn't find him. You know, I know his last name, but I want to ask permission. And I called up a lot of people with his name, but it wasn't the same guy, so I never knew what happened to him. But we made a weird friendship. He lived with his mommy.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
He said he was a mommy's boy, and he had a part-time job at Bloomingdale's selling men's clothing, and he had a motor scooter. not a car that he rode around on. But there was something about him that women just found absolutely irresistible. And I kind of learned eventually how that works.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
So there is a lot to learn, and sometimes if you're too sincere and too nice, you get shot down, and that's true if you're a guy or a lady. And...
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Talk about that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah. Well, it was a joy working with you, Matt. It's always been a joy knowing you as a friend and working with you as a colleague and formerly as a supervisor when you were a psychiatric resident. And it was just so much fun. And it's still so much fun.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But I'll never forget the night that you had gotten over all this anxiety and being jerked around by women and the shoe suddenly was on the other foot. And I remember you came to me once and said, David, I'm in terrible condition and I need your help. And I said, well, what's the problem? And you said, I got confused and made a mistake and I have three dates scheduled for tonight.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Oh, yes, that's right. Happy New Year. Happy Rosh Hashanah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But there was a study, and this was, you know, it was a good 20 years ago, but it's still vivid in my mind. I don't even remember the reference to it, but I'm sure it exists somewhere on the web. But it was a study done at Harvard. And the conventional thing in going off of benzodiazepines, that's drugs like Xanax, Librium, Valium, Ativan, and that type of thing.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Well, what is the overwhelmingly main, massively important thing to do to help someone who's complaining about world events? Because there's plenty of world events to complain about. So let's say in the empathy phase, someone's upset about politics and the Ukraine and Palestine and Israel and Putin and Alzheimer's.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
all the awful things in the world, big and small, and you've empathized, and they give you an A in empathy. What is the overwhelmingly most important key to successful treatment, Rhonda, with that person?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Absolutely. That's it. And you don't get hooked into, you know, throwing help at people just because they're talking about problems. You know, if a miracle happened in today's session, what miracle would you be happy hoping for? Right. And we certainly can't end the war in Ukraine or, you know, cure the political quagmire in the United States.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But we have all kinds of ways to work with someone, but it depends on what they want help with.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, it's a good one. And the next one is a great one. I'll be right back. Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I'll give you my answer right now. I have to take a pee, and so I'll be right back to give my answer.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, I'm back. I think it just made us seem more human, but that's just my point.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Well, it's a short question, so let's push ahead.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, now we're going to go on to question number five from Maritz.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Okay, I can give a quick first answer, but I have to correct one thing. You said real psychological disorders with known causes. All psychological disorders have unknown causes, but there are real brain disorders like schizophrenia and bipolar that are really due to some biological error in the brain that we don't yet know.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And at my hospital in Philadelphia, we developed a large cognitive therapy program for the people in our inner city neighborhood. And there were many of them had schizophrenia or bipolar. including some needing hospitalization kind of involuntarily because they were so severely out of control. But when I've worked with people with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder,
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
They're all so-called, used to be called minor tranquilizers. is that a lot of them, like Xanax, go in and out of the blood very quickly. And so when it goes into your blood, you just feel wonderful. And all your cares are gone. And if it's evening, you can fall asleep and wake up feeling terrific. But the problem and your anxiety is improved or goes away completely.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I've worked with them in the same way I would work with anybody. I don't try to treat schizophrenia. Sometimes people with schizophrenia need to have neuroleptics if they're in a state of acute, severe paranoia or psychosis. But the things that I would be helping them with, say, as an outpatient, is exactly the same. Is there something that you would like help with?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And generally it's with their moods, in which case we'd pull out a daily mood log and write down their negative thoughts and the event and the emotions and identify the distortions and talk back to those thoughts. And I've worked with many, many people with schizophrenia, but I'm not trying to challenge their delusions or paranoia, just give them a greater sense of self-esteem.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
People with bipolar, I've treated many people with bipolar disorder, And again, during the acute phase, they may get so, of mania, get so psychotic that they need one hospitalization to understand what they're dealing with and to get on some kind of mood stabilizer like lithium is the one I used. I think they're using some other medications that work fairly well.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But they need the same help as anyone with the feelings of depression. It seemed like bipolar patients often had a lot of perfectionism and all-or-nothing thinking and thinking they had to be so great to be loved or to be worthwhile. And I found that helping them with that was life-changing for many of them. And some of my most patients I look back most fondly had bipolar issues.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And and and before I learned cognitive therapy or team therapy, I for a while I ran the lithium clinic at the VA hospital in Philadelphia. And all I had was drugs, drugs, drugs to offer. And those poor guys were going in and out of the hospital like a revolving door. And I can't remember a single one of them who seemed to have a decent adjustment to life, to be honest with you.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
There was a lot of alcoholism and a lot of unhappiness and a lot of pills that we were prescribing. And once I started doing my outpatient practice, I still got bipolar patients, but they did just fantastic because I had something to offer them by way of psychotherapy. I also would say that working with people with schizophrenia or bipolar, for all of us, the therapeutic relationship
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
is important. We all want someone to feel fond of us and to care about us and to approve of us and accept us. But I think that's especially true with schizophrenia and bipolar, that the kindness and warmth that you extend to people with schizophrenia or bipolar, many of them will never forget you. And it means so much. But you also want to have technical skills.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And let me say finally that at our hospital in Philadelphia, we had an inpatient unit for people with extreme psychotic episodes. And one of our clinical social workers created a series of cognitive therapy games. We didn't have team therapy yet at that time, but we had cognitive therapy And he created about 40 games. And he would have the patients on the inpatient unit play these 45-minute games.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Like instead of group therapy, you get together with a group and you kind of play a game designed to illustrate some aspect of cognitive therapy. Like there's the paranoia game and the high George game and things like that. And they really enjoyed playing those games, and they would learn about, like, the cognitive distortions, like mind reading, for example, the paranoia game.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But then when it goes out of your body, you go into a kind of withdrawal, which is the opposite. The anxiety comes back and you get insomnia. And the conventional wisdom was to convert patients on Xanax to a long acting patient. benzo like Klonopin, which has a long half-life, so it goes out of the blood very slowly, so you don't get those sharp withdrawal dips, which happen quickly and intensely.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
He would have all of them sit around a circle and give them an envelope with, if there were 12 patients with 12 pieces of paper, and say, I want you to write down one nice thing about each person here, and then fold it and hand that piece of paper to them. And then when someone gives you a piece of paper, put it in your envelope, don't read it.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And so they're all busy, you know, writing down nice things about each other and handing them around. And so it's not like typical, you know, inpatient treatment. Now, keep in mind, they're seeing a psychiatrist, they're getting medications that they might need, but they're playing these games all day long.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And so they hand them around, and then he would go around to them one by one and say, do you think you know what people said about you on those slips of paper in your envelope? And they'd say, oh, yes, I know exactly what they're saying about me because I can hear people's thoughts. and say, okay, what do you think they're saying about you?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And this one woman said, they're saying they think I'm a prostitute and they're scheming to try to get my gold. And then George said to her, how strongly do you believe that? And she said, I know that's, because I know that's what they're thinking because I can hear their thoughts. And he said, why don't you take and read them out loud one by one.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And then she took out the first one and it said, you know, Rose, I want you to know that you're the person on the inpatient unit who's helped me the most, even more than the doctors and nurses, because when I'm upset and I talk to you, you really listen. God bless you, Rose. I can't thank you enough.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And every piece of paper had some beautiful comment by someone, and tears came to her eyes because when people have schizophrenia, they're often hard to relate to, so they don't hear a lot of affectionate and kind comments from other people. We get kind of frustrated with people with schizophrenia, and we argue with them about their hallucinations and delusions.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And this was a very different way of connecting. And we didn't have the goal of curing anyone with schizophrenia, but just helping them develop joy and self-esteem given their severe condition.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
biological problem and I used to see they would show me letters that they got from families or patients who had been discharged from our inpatient unit just saying and they were often written in kind of broken English you know not very extremely articulate but things like God bless you for the helping me so much or helping my my son so much on the inpatient unit and things like that and
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And the neighborhood really, really appreciated our programs. They even had a feeling good day every six months at the hospital. They'd give out feeling good T-shirts. They started a feeling good jazz band. And it was quite the thing. But it was really based on bringing compassion to a group of people who had very few resources.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Well, the question is just how do you help someone with bipolar or schizophrenia, so-called real brain disorder, as opposed to just depression or anxiety? Right, yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And so they randomly assigned... People who had dependency on, I think it was Xanax was the one that they were using. And they first switched them over to Klonopin. And there were two groups, random assignment groups for the patients. And one group just got the traditional Xanax.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I had a young teenager referred to me who had one of the... severe brain disorders more in the area of limited intelligence. I'm trying to think of which one. It might have to do with your brain getting squashed during the birth process. I'm not sure. But she had very, very limited intelligence.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
mental functioning, and she was in a high school, but in the special classes for people with severe mental, you know, cognitive impairments. And she had been getting all A's, but she got mad at her teacher, so she refused to study for some quiz, and she got an F. And And then she became suicidal because she flunked that quiz. And her parents brought her to me.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And I asked her, just as I would with anyone, you know, what are your thoughts? What are you telling yourself? And she said, because I flunked that test, I'm going to flunk everything from now on. And that's just the same kind of thought that anyone would have. She just put it in her own words. But, you know, it's an overgeneralization, all or nothing thinking, discounting the positive thinking.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
You know, mental filtering, fortune telling, emotional reasoning, self-blame, you know, should statements, all of that stuff. But I worked with her in a very simple way. I just said, the issue here is what grades did you get, you know, in your quizzes before this one? She said, I always got an A.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And, um, and then I would ask, uh, do you, do you think it's possible that if you start studying again and maybe talk to the teacher, what you were so mad at him about that, that then you could start getting A's again. Um, and, and, and then she would say something like, are you saying that I, it's not necessarily true that I'm going to flunk everything, uh, for the rest of my life.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And I said, yeah, that's what I've been hinting at, uh, And then she would say, could you explain that again? I'm trying to understand this. And we'd go through that 30 times in a row, the exact thing. And then by the end of the session, she said, are you saying that even though I flunked this one quiz, it doesn't mean I'm going to flunk all of my quizzes from now on?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And I said, that's what I've been trying to hint at. And she said, oh, I got it. I'm feeling so much better now. And so it was the same thing. It's just presenting things in a way that people can understand.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And again, it was sad because the goal wasn't to remove her severe brain damage, whatever it was that caused her very tragic and horrific cognitive impairment, but it was just to give them the gift of self-love and joy and self-esteem.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And it was using exactly the same kind of techniques, but delivering them in a way that someone can understand that takes into account who the person is, what is their social functioning, what are their religious beliefs, their religion, their race, their social structure. How can you explain these things in a way that someone will understand from their point of view?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
withdrawal, slow withdrawal, like over a period of weeks, you know, switch them to Klonopin and then slowly withdraw the Klonopin by expert psychopharmacologists at Harvard. And the other group got the same exact pharmacologic treatment, but they also had a group cognitive therapy group every week.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
The principles are always the same.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
We can. One is just John expressing gratitude to us for our answers on positive reframing, which I have in the show notes that people can read if they like. That was from a previous episode. Okay, why don't I read that? Well, I was going to say we could skip it and go on to the last question, number seven.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
It's actually not at all complicated, number seven.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
No, it's only 30 seconds.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And the upshoot of it, as I recall, and I don't recall the details exactly, but there was a massive difference between the groups. And most of the patients, a good 80% of the patients in the cognitive therapy group were able to withdraw successfully from benzodiazepines. And in the pure psychopharmacology withdrawal group, only like a minor percentage
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
What Rhonda is this?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, I love your, okay. I love your questions, Rhonda. And you want to know what are the four feared fantasy techniques. And there's four of them. For the approval addiction, they're for self-defeating beliefs. And if you're working on the approval addiction or perceived perfectionism, then you do the I judge you feared fantasy technique.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
If it's the achievement addiction, you do the high school reunion feared fantasy. If it's the love addiction, you do the rejection feared fantasy. And if it's submissiveness, you do no practice. And now you know the answer.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And we could go on much longer on this and other role-playing techniques, but it is Rosh Hashanah, the first chapter. day of the Jewish New Year, if I understand it correctly. And our love goes out to everyone who's celebrating Rosh Hashanah. You won't hear this until much later. It'll be like four or five weeks from now.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But we still want to send our love and warmth and best wishes to all people in our podcast fans and people all around the world of the Jewish faith. Our love and Our hearts are with all of you. And we're so sad at so much trauma now in the world affecting Jewish people and the country of Israel. And I at least want to express my love and support.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, me too. Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
OK, goodbye, everybody. Thank you for listening. We really appreciate all of you. We love all of you. And we're so glad you join us here on the podcast, sending your questions and criticisms and your praise. And and we just we love having the dialogue and turning it into a dialogue.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, that's right. Trialogue. Yeah, that's right. OK, so.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
fraction of them like 20 percent or 25 percent only were able to to to withdraw and so the moral of the story was that the cognitive therapy support greatly at least in that one study that i saw enhanced the success in withdrawing from benzos and i've also had some uh personal experience with this, not with that exact approach.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But when Xanax came out, the drug companies make a lot of claims initially for drugs that turn out not to be true. six months after the drug has been on the market. And when Xanax came out, they claimed it was not addictive and that it was helpful for depression and anxiety.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And so I thought, you know, sometimes I was having trouble getting to sleep at night, so I thought, well, I'll take the smallest dose, a one-quarter milligram of Xanax, and I would fall asleep, you know, quickly. and wake up the next morning feeling fantastic with no side effects or anything. And I thought, man, this is a magic bullet, this drug.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But then after being on it for a number of weeks, I realized that I was getting addicted to it and wanted to take two of them rather than And one of them. And I thought, this sucks. This is not good. And so I stopped taking them. And I went into withdrawal, which lasted about three weeks. And the withdrawal consisted just of, you know, anxiety and difficulty sleeping.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But I just kind of toughed it out because I understood that that was just, you know, the natural chemistry happening in my brain. And after that, I was fine. And I think I probably did a gradual. I probably went from a full pill to a half a pill for a few days and then to a quarter pill for a few days and then no pill.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, and then there was one pill I took once. I didn't do a lot taking this kind of pill, but another one came out that was touted for sleep. And it was also a more potent benzo that put you right to sleep. And I took one pill on one occasion, and I went into severe withdrawal from that. It put me to sleep, but as it went out of my blood, I got really wired up, something pretty intense.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
It was awful. And so I never took it again. Matt, you might remember the name of that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
No, uh-uh. I don't remember the name of it. Klonopin or Klonazepam? Did you say Klonopin?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I was just talking about Klonopin, the study at Harvard. Oh, okay. Maybe you didn't tune into that, but I'm very familiar.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah. David, you're very boring. Yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah. So I don't prescribe them for anything. My colleague, Henny Westraw, a number of years back, and I think I put this reference...
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yes, in the show notes, but she reviewed the entire world literature on treating anxiety, and she concluded that benzodiazepines not only are not effective in the treatment of anxiety, they always make anxiety worse because you just get dependent on them, and then they make it almost impossible to recover anxiety.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And she said the most effective treatment for anxiety is cognitive therapy with no medications. And that's how I've always treated anxiety for the past 25 or 30 years. So now I will shut up and give it over to my better angels, you might say, Rhonda and Richard.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Great. What do you think, Matt?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Or Xanax.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
No, but I mean just that phrase, most exquisitely slender diet, sounds awesome. So I thought it was worth putting in there.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
What's weird, Chuck, is I saw that it was this whole adage that we that is like basically encouragement is taken as an encouragement or advice today was originally taken as like a warning that if you feed a cold, that cold will turn into a fever and then you'll have to starve the fever. Like and that the reason that it was ambiguous is because of that comma in the middle.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
OK. But well, what was the whole point? I mean, like if what was the idea that it was based on, I guess, then?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Sure. That was, I think, what they think the whole thing was based on. And regardless of how you slice it, though, how you take it as a warning or anything like that, it's pretty much... generally viewed as not good advice by the medical community today. I say we take a break and come back and talk about how this is not really good advice. How about that?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
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Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
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Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
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Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. There's Chuck and I'm Josh and Jerry's here too, sitting in for Dave. So this is short stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
That's right. So just go to squarespace.com slash stuff. And when you're ready to launch, use our offer code stuff to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Squarespace.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Now, and that's bad enough, but the actual harm is in the second part, starving a fever. Because pretty much everybody in the medical community agrees that if you feel hungry while you're sick, you should go ahead and eat because your appetite can come and go and it can be so thin. You want to take advantage of it when it does show up.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
And even more to the point, if you starve yourself on purpose while you have a fever, you're robbing yourself of some really much needed nutrients and calories that your body really needs specifically when you have a fever.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Right. And the reason that your metabolism would jack up when you have a fever is because your body's literally raising your core temperature to try to cook out the virus that's got you in its grips.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Yeah. Yeah. It is kind of weird. It's like almost giving it like a grudging salute, like way to go, Bobby.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Oh, for sure. The worst is when the fever comes on in the morning and you've got fever all through the night. Fever.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Just want to make sure that wasn't an accident. Yeah. You said, can you imagine the coincidence? Like, what would the odds be of that? I don't know. It'd make you a natural songwriter, I guess. So you said that you want to drink, especially if you can't eat solid foods, at least try to drink things that have calories, like a sports drink with electrolytes, like they had in Idiocracy.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Or like thin broths, like a chicken broth can have a bunch of calories in it. Even vegetable broths have some calories. So you want to get it wherever you can. The key here is this. Even if you don't want to eat at all, That's okay. Like most people, especially in the developed world, aren't on the edge of nutrition.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
We all have some reserves that can last us the few days we're not hungry while we're sick. What we don't have is a reserve enough of fluids to keep us going for very long. So you have to, it's not a choice, you have to stay hydrated one way or another.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Well, yeah, I looked that up. So they call that for low alcohol beer. Like I guess session beers basically would be a small beer, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Yeah, I think most people have heard that, right? That's a pretty widespread adage. Sure, yeah. Our friends at the Cleveland Clinic, not normally known for their etymology resources, but they traced this back, at least half of it, to 1574. There's a dictionary that was compiled by a guy named John Withalls. And Withell said that fasting is a great remedy of fever.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I love doing that, too.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Mm-hmm. I'm pretty sure that's what it is.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Water gruel sweetened with honey. Yeah. So I looked all over to see if anybody had conducted a study on whether this was true or not. And thank God our friends over in the Netherlands did it. In 2002, a group of Dutch researchers conducted a study, and they wanted to see whether feeding or calorie restriction has any effect on whether you have a cold or a fever or anything like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
And what's astounding is that they found that it actually does have an effect on the level of your immune system with the types of cells that are produced.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Right. And then kind of as expected, the other group, the group that had to fast. their interferon gamma levels actually went down by about 83%. So they lost some robustness to their immune response because they weren't eating. So, so far, you're kind of like, all right, this makes sense for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
The surprise came with a different kind of immune cell called interleukin-4, which they found actually rose in the group that was fasting.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
No, for sure. That interferon that helps produce antibodies like for specifically targeted to an infection and the interleukin uses our bodies like innate response, like sicking cytokines that you normally have laying around in your body on it. So yeah, you can't game the whole thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
So that's why doctors across pretty much the board say, if you're sick and you feel like you can eat, like you're hungry, eat something for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Well put, especially when people rewind and listen a couple of times.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Well, Chuck said he hopes so, which means everybody's short stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
So you've got the second part right there, starve a fever, right? It's as far back as anyone's traced it. Although, if you kind of want to expand your definition of what's being discussed here, you can trace it all the way back to Hippocrates, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Yeah. So after you guys hear this short stuff, you will realize how just preposterous that headline from CNN is.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
So, like you said, they're from East Asia. And in Japan, they're called Juro gummo. And the reason I say Joro, a lot of people say Joro, which makes sense because it's spelled J-O-R-O. But in the Japanese spelling, there's a long symbol over the second O. So the first one would not be a hard O. It'd be J-O-R-O. Okay. That's right. And that means entangling or binding bride.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
And you'll see why they call them that. In Korea, they're called Mudang Gumi. Okay. which means shaman or fortune teller. So however you slice it, these things have pretty cool names and aptly so, because like you said, they're just absolutely beautiful and they are pretty good size enough so that you can see like all of them pretty clearly.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Yeah, they also have orange bands like around their legs. They're just really, really pretty. The males of the gyrospiders, too, are smaller and they're kind of drab looking. So if you ever see a gyrospider and you're like, wow, that is a cool looking spider. It's a female every time.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
And then the other dead giveaway is if it's spinning a web, it's a female because only the females spin webs for gyrospiders. And you said you walked face first into or you almost walked face first into a web? Correct. Have you ever run into one?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Yeah. So one of the things that's characteristic of gyrospider webs is they don't necessarily break. Like it takes a lot to just walk through them. Like you can walk through them and you're kind of going to bounce off a little bit. It's not, you know, not going to send you flying backwards, but it's not just going to snap as you walk through it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
And I saw that those webs are so strong, birds can perch on them. Like it's not like the bird's getting caught in the web, but they can like Just perch on the web for a little while while they figure out where to fly next.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. There's Jerry there. And we're caught in a web of greatness because this is short stuff from stuff you should know.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
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Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
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Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
So one of the reasons that gerospiders are spreading so quickly is because they're very new. Like you said, a little over 10 years since they were first spotted in the U.S., which means that predators haven't, I guess, spotted them yet. So they have a ready supply of flying insects. They apparently particularly like stink bugs.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
And little competition for those insects, in part, I think, because they weave their web higher than other spiders that they would be competing with for food. And so an ample supply of food and no predators means that any species is going to just boom for a while. And that's what we're in. We're in the golden age of gyrospiders booming all over the eastern United States.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Yeah. So a little bit more about the actual spiders themselves and how they behave. You'll notice like there's a couple of different webs basically right up on each other. Gyrospiders live very close together. I guess they're not super territorial, if at all. And again, if you see a beautiful spider in the web, it's a female. And there's probably a male trying to get to her.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
And he's using all sorts of cute little tricks to make his way from one place to another toward his intended love target.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
I would not say that. I get so deeply disturbed by that word for some reason. Oh, me too.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Oh, my God. That and moist. And if you put them together.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
They apparently also the males will like fly float on the air. With a little bit of gossamer, like a little parachute or a hang glider from like tree to tree or branch to branch, making their way toward a web, which is pretty cute if you ask me.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
I've seen a bunch of them myself. We have them all over the house. And I had been remarking to myself, like, wow, these things are all over the place. And you sent this and I was like, oh, well, that's why they're an invasive species here in Georgia. South Carolina for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
No, you shouldn't. For one thing, it's not entirely clear what kind of impact they're having on the ecosystems they move into, but there's certainly no apocalyptic impacts going on because everything seems to be fine and the other spider populations don't seem to be shrinking as the gyrospiders move in. That's a really bizarre thing if that's true, if they're having like no weird impact.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
But again, they expect that they're going to start being predated on. That's harder to say than you'd think.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Pretty soon. So we shouldn't have much to worry about. And I hope this isn't one of those podcasts that ages like milk, you know? Yeah. But yes, I'm hoping that all the entomologists are right where they're like, just relax, everybody. They're poisonous or they're venomous and they will bite you under certain circumstances.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
But if you leave them alone or even if you walk into their web, more often than not, they're going to run away from you. So to answer your question in a very long roundabout way, no, you should not kill them.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
No. And this article likened it to a bee sting. And I remember Yumi getting bitten by one of these. And I asked her, I was like, was it like a bee sting? She's like, no, it wasn't nearly as bad. Yeah. So I decided that wasn't a dramatic enough story. So I was going to tell everybody that her hand blew up like a cabbage patch doll. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
She was gardening and they are all over our yard. They got in like one of her rose bushes while she was deadheading her roses. And yeah, she got too close and it went, and that was that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Yeah, for sure. Especially those heavy-duty ones. You got anything else? I don't think so. No, I feel like we covered everything, Chuck. You know what that means. Mm-hmm. Short Stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
And they're starting to move a little bit northwestward into other southern states like Tennessee and Alabama, but definitely up the eastern seaboard. And what we're talking about is what CNN called giant venomous Joro spiders are infiltrating parts of the U.S.,
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
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Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And he was also very motivated by money because he was building his own house and he needed as much money as he could get to build said house.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Not too bright. That's a really important point that Taylor would hammer home any chance he got. This guy was sluggish, mentally speaking, is the way that he put it. But he got through to him with a pep talk, where essentially he said, are you a high-priced man? And Schmidt was like, I don't know what you're talking about. And when he wrote about Schmidt, he replaced his W's with V's and stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
He was a German immigrant. And he said, well, this is what a high-priced man does. He does everything that his manager tells him to do. If your manager tells you to pick up that pig iron and take six steps and then set it down over there, you do that.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
If your manager tells you to sit down and rest for 90 seconds, then after 90 seconds he tells you to get up and then go grab that piece of pig iron, you do that too with no backtalk whatsoever. Right. That's a high-priced man. You want to be a Mr. Big Boy Pants? Exactly. And high-priced men make more money. So we'll give you not just the $1.15 an hour that you're making.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
We'll give you $1.85 for making this 47.5-ton quota. And all you have to do is do what your manager tells you. And this is the other thing that I guess Frederick Taylor revolutionized in a way. He divided the workforce into two parts, managers who had the brains and did the bossing around and workers who were, according to Taylor, meant to do exactly what their managers told them.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And if you put the two together, you would have the most efficient way to say like load pig iron onto a railroad car.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
I don't like three hour podcasts, but I also don't like living under the clock, which is why I probably would not have personally liked Frederick Winslow Taylor.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Well, yeah. Also, William Wilson said basically like we're not dealing with singing birds. We're dealing with men here who are part of society and for whom or for whose benefit society is organized. Right. So you can't essentially you can't treat people like automatons and drones and robots. You have to consider them as human beings.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And the lines from his book that you mentioned, apparently Jill Lepore reported that. that he did so poorly in this committee hearing that, by the way, if you want to ever be nervous about a committee hearing you have to go testify at, go to one that's literally named after you.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
This hearing was called the House Committee to Investigate Taylor, not Taylorism, Taylor and other systems of shop management. And so he actually ordered one of his underlings to go steal William Wilson's copy of his book. and I guess wasn't successful and just kind of went ahead with the terrible testimony.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
I don't think we have any choice. And by the way, this is not a biopic. It's not a biography or a profile. It's about a man that you can't not talk about, but really this is about his whole system. Okay. I just want to make that clear to you specifically.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
But as we'll see, he used it to turn bad publicity into any publicity, which is good publicity.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Every holiday season starts with the best of intentions. Bake that homemade pie. Get all your holiday shopping done early. But then, life gets in the way. But don't feel bad. It happens to everyone. And luckily, you've got DoorDash.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yep, and now through the 24th, DoorDash has big deals running for the holidays from Best Buy, Ulta Beauty, Wingstop, Aldi, and more. You can save money and the holidays all with DoorDash. Whether you tell people is up to you.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Okay, Chuck, you mentioned that we're going to talk about the Gilbreths, so I say we do that now. We're talking about Frank and Lillian Gilbreth. And anyone who has ever read the book or seen the movie or the remake, Cheaper by the Dozen, this is the family that that movie and that book were based on.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Frank and Lillian Gilbreth were one of the more amazing, interesting couples that came out of the 20th century.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, and it seems like Frank kind of came up with this interest independently of Frederick Taylor, even though he and Lillian and Taylor would essentially form kind of a cadre of cohorts, I guess.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
This is like an independent thing. These were two independent groups who eventually came together because they helped develop this field out of thin air. So what the Gilbreths did, Lillian and Frank together, they formed the Gilbreth Inc., a management consulting firm. they got really, really in the weeds about the movements it took to carry out a task.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And they figured out that you could break any task down into 18 different kinds of movements, right? So you're not necessarily gonna have all 18, but no matter what task you're talking about, It's going to be made up of no more than those 18 specific kind of movements. Things like searching for an object with your eye, grasping an object, reaching for it, disassembling it.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And they call these things therbligs, which is their name roughly spelled backwards.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, I think they're right. They're like, you're our guy.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, and to do that, so they would use their kids. They ended up having a dozen kids, 11 of whom made it to adulthood. One of them died at age five of diphtheria, sadly. And I don't know how, but they planned to have six boys and six girls. And I think they were successful at that. No idea how they did that because we're talking about the beginning of the 20th century.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And they decided to raise their kids in the under these principles of efficiency. But they weren't weirdo clinical types like this was a tight, cool family. Like the kids were participatory, like they would have family meetings. Um, and each kid had a vote. And so they would have a family meeting and someone would put forward a motion. Like I say, we get a dog and someone would second it.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And then they put it to a vote and then, you know, the eyes had it. So they ended up getting a dog. They named Mr. Chairman. Like that was how they ran their, their family, but they were all very focused on efficiency because they were obsessed with it, but not in a, a, a deleterious way, um, or deleterious way. They, they were, um,
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
So it was a really different viewpoint of the same thing compared to Frederick Taylor. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. Yeah. I think I explained it already. I'm sticking with my idea.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
No, I don't think he was evil. I don't think that he set out to exploit workers. But I think even after he saw what his invention was being used for, he was indifferent to that. And that says volumes about him. He never denounced it. He never called people out for misusing it. And he actually helped foster its misuse to exploit workers. So I think he was a bit of a misanthrope.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Not evil, and that wasn't ever his intention to be evil, but when it turned kind of evil, he was like, sure, let's keep going if you guys are giving me money.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, maybe. For sure. I mean, it's possible. I think that we're barreling toward a future where every single person has a diagnosis of some sort or another.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think we already know that. But we haven't we haven't come up with a label for every single one of those types of issues that people are working with. That's the difference that I'm talking about.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
I agree. I don't think I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm just interested to see like where we're going. But yes, I agree. We've in large part as a society scuttled the idea of the Ubermensch and Nietzsche is very unhappy about that.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. Didn't Miller Lite have an ice too? Didn't everybody have an ice for a while? Light ice?
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
No, I screwed it up then because I should have said Bud Ice. But yeah, that's what I was going for. I know Milwaukee's best had an ice.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, I think it had something. It messed with the alcohol content or the way it was delivered or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Exactly. No, the opposite. You had to drink 12 instead of 14.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. And Brandeis is ironic because he was dyed in the wool progressive. Like you said, he was worried about big business. And so the idea that he's the one that made this concept that's historically viewed as exploitive of workers. famous and introduced to the world and essentially gave it its breakout moment. It's just terribly ironic.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
But the whole basis of that is that he was arguing before the Interstate Commerce Commission, which is holding hearings on railroad rate hikes. The railroad said, Stuff's getting expensive. We need to increase the prices that we charge to carry freight, to move freight. And of course, that has cascading effects all throughout society and prices were going to go up.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And Brandeis represented a bunch of companies that were going to have to pay those increased rates. And Brandeis' argument was that the railroad companies don't need to raise their rates. They need to get more efficient. And here's how they can do it. This guy named Taylor has figured out a scientific way of getting more efficient.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And that's how they can keep their prices low and still keep their profits high.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, for sure. And he was riding on the publicity from that Interstate Commerce Commission hearing, but also that congressional hearing that came, I think, later that same year. He saw an opportunity to get his name out there, even though his name was kind of being dragged through the mud.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. Have you ever heard of the work triangle in a kitchen?
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
But for those of you who don't know what it is, the kitchen triangle is like the places where you do the most work. And so the idea is that they should be all within a step or two from one another. The sink, the oven, and the ice cream maker. I don't remember what the third one is. The dishwasher. Dishwasher.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
So anyway, she came up with that. If you have a kitchen island, you can thank her. I've seen. So, yes, she's just kind of pivoted because people were finding out that there was a woman that ran Gilbreth Inc., the management consulting firm, and were just walking away from their accounts because it was run by a woman. So she had no choice. She had 12, 11 kids to raise. And so.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, and I could just hear our left-leaning listeners going, boo-hiss. But efficiency was not in and of itself a naughty word on either side of the political spectrum at the time because you could also hope that a more efficient factory or a more efficient workforce or a more efficient whatever –
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
had to provide for him. She wanted to send them all to college. So, yeah, she pivoted to home ec. But it wasn't just her. It's not like she invented home ec out of whole cloth. It was already being developed by a very famous or should be famous lesbian couple, Flora Rose and Martha Van Rensselaer. Yeah, Rensselaer, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
R-E-N-S-S-E-L-A-E-R. Rensselaer. Yeah, that's what I'm going with. And the reason I specifically called them out as a lesbian couple is because they were out as a lesbian couple in, I believe, the 1920s or 30s. I mean, you just did not do that. And they were like, say something. Just bring it. And they just went unchallenged for their lifetime from what I knew.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
But they wanted to turn working in the home into something scientific, domestic science, which kind of elevated its status as well as made things easier for the woman working in the home.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Sure. The only question is who decides what really matters. And I think one of the things about that is that at the time when that guy was talking like that, kids in public schools were viewed as being trained and molded into the workers of tomorrow. So it was the government and the economy who decided what was important.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And, yeah, we were making a lot of money off of reciting Greek poems, like you were saying. So that would get scuttled in the face of, say, I don't know, shop class maybe. What class? Shop?
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
No. I was just fascinated by that. They had one on Saved by the Bell, and I always thought that was the coolest thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Well, there was a huge shift in the American economy from car making to lamp making in the early 80s. So I'm sure that's what the result was.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Systematic soldier? Yeah. I say we take our second break.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
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Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
would increase productivity but also give workers more free time and then ideally a larger share of the profit in the form of higher wages. Yeah, that's how that works, right? Exactly. I mean, I can't imagine a more naive progressive movement than that, but that's exactly what they were hoping for.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
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Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot about the fridge. Yes, yes, absolutely.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Right, and I'm sure that she didn't have a dishwasher in the 1930s and 40s, so, you know. Yeah, so you're right, Chuck. Just say it again. I think it was the fridge. Okay.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
But not just hoping for, they were fighting for it, agitating for it, doing whatever they could, taking it to the courts. Sometimes they were successful, but I think we all know, spoiler alert, in the long run, they lost thus far.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. And so de-skilling workers, taking away the overall understanding of making, say, like an oven and just giving them the one job of putting the door on the oven as it's coming down the assembly line. Not only does that take away from job satisfaction, it also makes you way more replaceable. Because you don't have to train somebody to build a whole oven.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
All you have to do is train them to put that oven door on and then you train somebody else to put the thermostat in the oven and so on and so forth. And you, the owner of the factory, has that oven you want, but you have a bunch of replaceable workers that you can pay fairly low wages, even combined, compared to somebody who builds the oven from scratch.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
That is a huge, like you said, that was already underway. But Taylorism and the fact that it was so pervasive and widespread, especially in America in the first half of the 20th century, really solidified that as like a basis of the American workforce.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yes. And so to be clear, it wasn't like every single time Taylor showed up, like that's just how it went. There were some successful pushbacks over the years. There's one specifically at the Watertown Arsenal in Massachusetts in 1911. They made guns, I think, for the government. It was a federal arsenal. And Taylor sent one of his emissaries, essentially told him to just make up a number.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
You don't even need the stopwatch part. And I think word of that got out and really kind of undermined that. But also just the process of being timed, doing your job. One of the workers said, I'm not doing that. You can't time me. And he was fired on the spot. And the rest of the workers were like, oh, yeah, well, we're going on strike.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And they ended up being successful because, again, this was a federal arsenal. And those congressional hearings to investigate Taylor, one of the results of them was that the U.S. federal government banned Taylorism from being used in any way, shape or form in any kind of federal facility or agency.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
But but overall, I mean, Taylor certainly won the day. I mean, that's that's just how the economy is in America and other like minded countries. Like even though we've kind of walked away from it overtly, it's just gotten more and more entrenched over the years rather than further and further away.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Right. No, for sure. And yeah, that's a really great point. But some studies have shown, from what I saw, just briefly reading about this, that The happier your workers are, or I should say economies that have happier workers, like more fulfilled workers, typically have, they're richer for the most part.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
I guess America is an outlier because I think overall workers are not necessarily happy with their jobs or lack of job. But supposedly, if you invest in your workers' well-being and actual happiness and fulfillment with their job, they're going to work more for you. They're going to work harder because they care about what they're doing.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Totally. Yeah. And then one of the other big things that shows that Taylorism is still alive and well today, Chuck, is computers, AI, whatever you want to call it, they're fulfilling the role of managers that Taylor envisioned. So remember, the manager was in charge of figuring out the best way to do something and then instructing the worker to do it exactly that way at exactly that time.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
That is what computers do today for workers, which is a bizarre reversal of authority, I guess, if you think about it. But that's the way it is, especially in places like, you know, big warehouses or call centers. There's computers essentially running the show.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
No, I don't remember that guy. You got to tell me. I'll remind you. Okay. Please do.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Just one last thing. Do you have anything more about Taylorism? No. OK, great. Well, then I do have just one last thing. If you want kind of a lighthearted look, a comedy with heart efficiency, check out the 1991 film The Efficiency Expert starring Anthony Hopkins.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
That was, yeah, kind of a different one. But, yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of crossover for sure. What's this Tony Hopkins picture? What is it? The Efficiency Expert. It's exactly what you just described. And he ends up in, I think, a factory where the workers make, they change his view of things. I think they kind of turn him around. Oh.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Well, anyway, we're about to end. Well, wait, hold on. We got to do listener mail, don't we?
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
By the way, Chuck, I got to tell you that we ended on 45 minutes on the nose. Holy cow. Yeah. Way to go, champ. Oh, since I said way to go, champ, of course, that means it's time for listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, at Midvale Steel Company, that's where he really made his name. I think that's where he became the chief engineer.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Oh, nice. Thanks, Stanley. You're a true listener through and through, aren't you? I love that humble, like, I can't figure out how to put the words together, but here they are.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Exactly. Well, if you want to be like Stanley and make me say wow, not once, not twice, but thrice, then you can try your hand at it. Send us an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And one of the things he did as he was working his way up was he was, I guess, out of the gate obsessed or at least deeply interested with the idea of doing something in the least number of movements, the most precise way, the most foolproof way, and that if you studied a task closely enough – and understood it well enough, you could find the most efficient way to do it.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
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Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And so over his 26-year career at Midvale, he conducted more than 30,000 experiments in metal cutting, figuring out which tool went with which motion, went with how to grab the tool the best way. And from that, he ended up writing a book called On the Art of Cutting Metals in 1907. And from what I saw for years and years, that was considered like a Bible in the metal cutting industry.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And so he definitely put his money where his mouth is. And that's how he first kind of got into the idea of becoming an efficiency expert.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And your response is like, well, can I go home early? Probably so.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
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Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, remember in our Peter Principle episode, we talked about a corollary to that called Parkinson's Law, which is like a tongue-in-cheek law that work expanded to fill the time allotted. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, if you're sitting there like making widgets, sorry to be cliche, but that's what I'm going with, eight or ten hours a day, you're not going to be the most efficient you can be.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
You're going to be about as efficient as as ambitious as you are. Like your ambition, how far you want to go, is basically equal in some weird ratio to the amount of efficiency that you produce at your job, right? So if you're like, I'm happy here, I'm not going to bust my hump like that guy to go an extra half mile because I'm not going to get anything in return.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
So I'm just going to do my job at a pace that I find – And that the people I work for find acceptable. And I mean, if you want to call that slacking off or being lazy, fine. And Frederick Taylor definitely did. But it's also just kind of like being a human being, you know.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And they appreciated your soft touch with the donkey that pulled the cart.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. I think the reason you're – man, we're really going deep on this. But I think the reason that you're feeling mischaracterized is because you're misusing the word lazy. That's not lazy. That's what they call work harder – or work smarter, not harder.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
No, that's not necessarily true. I think it's just sensible.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Okay. There you go. But they're not necessarily inextricably tied together in that instance. Okay. Anyway, I don't think what you just described qualifies as laziness. But what Frederick Taylor considered laziness, he called something called systematic soldiering, which I still can't make heads or tails of. It does not make any sense to me. Does it to you?
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
I don't know. I mean, you go off and fight battles or you go and follow orders. I don't know. I don't know what he means.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
It makes no sense because that was his term, systematic soldiering.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. Right. That's what he called slacking off. And like this guy was an aristocat through and through. Right. His mother's family came over in the early 1600s, I think, to America. So like he was a wealthy, blue blooded. A quicker boy who, because his parents were like do-gooders, his mom certainly was. She was a suffragette, an abolitionist.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
He was raised to care about humanity, but he also didn't have that spark of compassion that it takes to care about humans individually. So he cared about creating a better society for humans, but he couldn't really help but look down on other people he considered lower than him, including immigrants. So he did notice things like, you're not working as hard as you can.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
I'm going to see to it that you work harder. And he felt totally comfortable with filling that role. And he actually created that role for himself to fill, which is pretty remarkable if you ask me.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, timing us, telling us to hurry up, scowling at us even, which makes this another average episode of Stuff You Should Know. She said, get this in 45 minutes on the nose. No more, no less. And then she went and walked out of the room holding a pillow.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. And so those management companies like KPMG and McKinsey, they would not exist ostensibly had Frederick Taylor not created that field. Like that's what he created. These huge just mega world influencing companies came from this guy basically making up the profession.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. And that thing about people getting tired, he called the law of heavy laboring. And from what I can tell, he made up that law that I just put into scare quotes. And this is a really good example of what he did.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Like he was supposed to be precise in finding like ultimate efficiency, but he was arbitrarily rounding up and arbitrarily coming up with 40 percent off based on this law that he made up. And now you kind of start to get to see like behind the veil or like the meat that's on the bones. I don't know the analogy I'm looking for, but you can pull back the curtain. That's the one.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And see that this stuff is actually not what Frederick Taylor cracked it up to be.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Here's the thing, though. So Schmidt, yes, was a fictional invention, essentially, of Taylor's making. But he went around the country giving this lecture or wrote in his books, like, as if Schmidt, this actually happened. About Schmidt? Yeah. It was a great movie. I really felt uncomfortable when he made a pass at the wife of the friendly couple that he met.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Other than that, I thought it was a great movie. Yeah. I think at that point, that was actually just an outtake of Jack Nicholson doing his thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
This is great. So he put out there that the Schmidt character was like a real deal thing, not a made up thing, not a made up anecdote to prove his point. And he actually did consult at Bethlehem Steel where Schmidt supposedly worked. But the upshot of all of it was this. There was this guy named Schmidt who is known to work very hard.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
If time is finite and it's the one thing that we all have the same amount of and you can't create more of, then why do you think some people accomplish more things and influence more people? So what's the explanation for that?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
So when it comes to saying no, when I really think about that, a lot of times we know we get asked to do something, we really don't want to do it, and we feel this guilt. What would you say to somebody who struggles with saying no and the guilt or the fear that they maybe feel to go, I really want to say no, but I'm having a hard time doing it?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
I'm so excited to introduce to you Christy Wright, and she is inspiring and enthusiastic. She educates and entertains audiences all across the country. She speaks at business conferences, Fortune 500 companies, some of America's top universities. And so, Christy, I'm so excited to have you. Thank you for being here.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
Yeah. So how do we avoid overcrowding the schedule?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
So you talk about boundaries. What do you see as the connection between boundaries and your calendar?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
So, you know, when we talk about time management, why do you think that is so important today? Why is that whole conversation such a big deal?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
So, you know, one of the things that's just heartbreaking for me is when people, you know, they have kids and they feel so like helpless, like, oh my gosh, how do I keep up with the spouse and my job and I have kids and all this sort of stuff. Have you seen any sort of common characteristics or traits of people that really do that effectively? Yeah.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
I love that. So Christy, thank you so much for being here. We wish you the very best.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
For stress, here's what I think a lot of people don't realize is that, and I know that you do realize this, but stress is healthy if it's taken in doses. My wife and I work out all the time and But we always take at least one day a week off and typically two. And the reason is, is when we work out, we work out hard. It's when we don't schedule in times of rest that you're going to have an issue.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
and what's things that you can say no to. And then on the right side, we start scheduling those things in because a lot of us have a work schedule. We have scheduled in to bring kids to soccer practice or whatever it is. You really need to schedule in times of rest, times of joy, you know, in times to live life. And I see this in a lot of people in business professionals.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
This is something where I understand I'm type A. I will go out there and I I'll put it in an 80-hour week, or I would if I didn't have scheduled in times of rest and understanding this. In fact, there's a great book that really hits on this topic. It's called The Powerful Engagement. It's a great business book that everyone might enjoy, but they really talk about this.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
And they actually have done studies on business executives, and they found they were much more effective when they schedule it in times of rest. And that might look like you once a day taking a 30-minute walk in the afternoon and and kind of letting your brain recharge and get refreshed. Even something as simple as that makes a big difference.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
Even taking your time into working out in the middle of the day. Even if it's just 30 minutes, that allows to reset your brain. In fact, in the book, they really talk about it takes 20 minutes of not thinking about and concentrating on something for your brain to reset.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
And if you can take 20 to 30 minutes completely away from thinking and being engaged, it really allows your body to sort of reset there. So anyways, I think in terms of stress, You know, that's an important thing to consider. And I talked about the business side. It's a similar thing, though, with parents, whether you're a business exec or not. I know a lot of moms out there.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
They're with kids all day and they probably get zero alone time in an average week. And so one of the things I work with those moms are doing is getting three hours by themselves a week. And so they can walk through the mall or do lunch with the best friend or whatever it might be. This is really I think it's important for everyone to try and do.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
you know, I know everyone has a different spiritual beliefs, but this is a, this is something, you know, taking a Sabbath or a day off from, from, from the beginning of time. And if you look in other cultures, both in Asian culture, European culture, there is a very long time in the middle of day where people are resting. So,
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
You know, in Europe, lunch is definitely longer, typically an hour and a half to two hours in some cases. In Asia, again, there's times for tea and those sort of things in the middle of the day. And so a lot of times I know business execs in the U.S. are working from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. I mean, that can be common.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
And so, again, you can work as hard. I mean, in most cases, you can work really, really hard, be into things and give it your all. But you have to take at least one day a week off. And you have to schedule things throughout your day that get your mind off things and allow your body to rest. And so your mind, in a way, is a muscle. It has to work if you never rest it.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
It's just like if you're trying to work your biceps over time, if you give it too much of a load, day after day after day, you're lifting these heavy dumbbells. Eventually, you're going to tear it. You're going to injure it.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
and the same thing can happen with our with our with our minds and our emotions if we overdo it and so one of the things i've had my patients do over the years is get out a sheet of paper have them write down on the left side everything that is stressing them out and their work hours and kind of all you know we kind of brainstorm and write out all those things on the right shot side of the sheet of paper i have them write down all of the things they love to do things that bring them joy things that help take their mind off things
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
And, and whether that be going for a walk or going to the mall or watching a movie by themselves, whatever it is, we kind of write down all those things that they love to do. And so we go down the left side and we start figuring out, okay, how do we better deal with this situation? What can you get out of your life? Because a lot of times we have too many things we're doing.