Josh
Appearances
123 GO!
I BUILD A CUSTOM MADE PLAYHOUSE | Cool Hacks and Crafts
Just take all these pieces I just cut and assemble them, which is my favorite part.
123 GO!
I BUILD A CUSTOM MADE PLAYHOUSE | Cool Hacks and Crafts
Fantastic. So now we're done using the laser. We have our cut acrylic sheet. I'm going to assemble this using super glue and after that we'll have nice acrylic sheet card holders. okay so it's been 12 hours the foam has expanded around the miniatures inside so we'll get to see how it turns out cut open and yeah this is the first time i tried this so i can't wait to see it
123 GO!
I BUILD A CUSTOM MADE PLAYHOUSE | Cool Hacks and Crafts
So right here, I have designed for portable organizer.
123 GO!
I BUILD A CUSTOM MADE PLAYHOUSE | Cool Hacks and Crafts
Yeah, so not only does the top open, but also has storage in the sides for extra miniatures.
123 GO!
I BUILD A CUSTOM MADE PLAYHOUSE | Cool Hacks and Crafts
Yeah, definitely. It was a lot of fun to make this.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
I have a feeling I know where John David's going to go, but you have to pick one on this one. We got pizza or tacos.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
We got some more hunting fishing directed questions here.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
Okay. There you go. All right. Fresh or saltwater fishing? Fresh. Fresh.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
All right. Power baits or finesse baits?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
John David's homemade pizza or Godwin's mustard flour crappie.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
You know what I think we should do? I think we should have the world's first taste in this room on the show.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
Next up, cornbread or biscuits?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
The best you can think of.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
You thinking of a specific person when you think of the biscuits?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
Yeah. All right, moving on. Willie's beard or Jace's beard? Colored or uncolored?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
All right. Squirrel stew or rabbit stew?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
Yeah. Pork. It's better. All right. Mountain dew or mellow yellow.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
Hmm. Hmm. Next up, a hole in your waders or a bunch of gnats in your waders?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
All right, whole it is. Hot dogs or cheeseburgers?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
Wow. Chocolate or vanilla?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
I did not. Pineapple pizza. No. Get out.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
Pineapple pizza. Yep. Or candy corn.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
I have a question. If it's all going to the same place, why does it matter?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
But you're forgetting chocolate milk. That's not what you have. It's a variant of milk. Chocolate milk is awesome.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
I don't have an answer for you.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
That's fair. That's fair. What is tea? We're going to move on.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
You balling. We're really breaking barriers out here. I like juice. But I also like milk.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
Maybe you can pick one of these. Pancakes or waffles?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
What about popcorn or chips? Didn't we already discuss this? No. Popcorn or chips.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
I guess you have that option. Your favorite chip versus your favorite thing of popcorn. Kettle corn's trash.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
I would consider nachos a form of chip. There you go.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
What's the main vehicle of the nacho?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
There's some rules. There's a little bit of a difference.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
That one was a joke. We're going to start off with a little bit of this or that. I only have one rule. You have to pick one of the two options. You can't say no to one of them.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
You can get one skip.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
We're going to start off with number one here. Would you rather have John Wayne or Clint Eastwood movies?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
I'm going to go with the Duke.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
All right, all right. Next question. We got crab legs or crawfish?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
So if you had to pick a crab, it would be a soft shell crab.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Chooses the Winner of the Best Robertson Beard Contest
Burn your nose. Got to tickle your nose or it ain't no good. No good. All right. Next question. We got okra or black eyed peas? Oh, praise God for both of those.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
You just abandon the home team? Yeah, yeah.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Yeah, we did a... So we said we've been to like 25 states. That doesn't mean we've been visiting 25 times. We kind of visited maybe six, seven. Mm-hmm. but we ticked off a lot of states in this RV trip. And that was 31 days together in an RV. Yeah. Very close proximity. How did you tick them off? Uh, what do you mean?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Y'all drove from Arizona to New York? Yeah, 31 days it was, yeah.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
We saw some crazy stuff. We tried noodling. Noodling? Oh, yeah, yeah. Which doesn't exist where we're from. That was bonkers.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
So if you've been catfish noodling, if you've ridden a bull. Yep. And we've shot guns. It was 2v2. We were dressed as redcoats versus two veterans.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
No, no, we went against- I was about to say, Americans as a gun! No, I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
He called himself the Pirate.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Yeah, we fired a .50 cal. .50 cal. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was good.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Well, we dive into multiple different states. Louisiana was this trip. We wanted to visit Louisiana.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
We thought we were going to die. This guy gets out. He's got no front teeth. His dog had one leg missing. We're not joking.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
And he was the bull rider, right? He was the guy that has to distract the bull. I don't think he's very good.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
What, in terms of what state?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Absolutely, yeah. That's our whole trip. That's how we plan our whole trips. It's going to be the beginning and the end. Listen, eventually our luck will run out and we will die.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
The man is observant. I sell worms for a living, by the way.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
I need to get some sunglasses on. He'll pickpocket you. You've got to be careful. Yeah, I'm coming after that.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Yeah, so Louisiana, we thought, okay, we'll go to the most northern city in Louisiana. And Shreveport apparently was the third most populated. So, okay, we'll go there. There must be stuff to do there. I booked a motel thinking we'll just stop there for the night or two. And this may have been the worst motel. It may have been the one me and Si stayed in by accident.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
How did you feel when you was airborne?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
There it is. There you go.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
It was the sort of moment where you wipe your feet on the way out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was that type of vibe. It wasn't... We don't want to put a bad light on Shreveport itself. We do. We didn't want to... No, we're okay making fun of Shreveport. We're terrible.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Well, this guy was shocked. Whatever you did to him, look. Look on his face.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
We haven't really explored Shreveport, just that one motel, and it wasn't great.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
No. Never seen it. My friend, I'm about to show you America. We lived it. It's the greatest movie of all time.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
And we've not even tried gumbo or jambalaya or... Wow. Boudin. You tried boudin. Yeah, we call it boudin by accident.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
What did you think it was when you heard that word?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
No. No, that checks out.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Have you had any fish and chips?
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Yeah, true. He's witty. No, I'm not. Bless your heart took us a while to get hold of. Bless your heart. That's what they said when you ate the crawfish head, wasn't it? Yeah, we thought it was a nice thing. Bless your heart. No, we feel bad for you. Yeah, yeah.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Well, we was in that gas station, and the woman points at me. She goes, you! I was like, what? She goes, come over here. I was like, oh, what have I done? And she goes, you can't be walking around here with those eyes, those pretty blue eyes. I was like, uh-oh.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
I was like, he's about to get kidnapped.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Straight to the point. I like it.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
What film? The wooden floors. Yeah.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
And you went to Turkey? Yeah, that's what I did.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Martin? Martin's good with it. No, no, no, no, no. I don't have the head shape for it.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Where can we find you guys at if people are wanting to follow y'all? So we're just Josh and Jace. Jace with an S, not with a C. Everywhere. Like Instagram, Facebook. Everywhere. TikTok. Yeah.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
That's the name of the podcast, isn't it? That's the name of the episode.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Basically, Great Britain is made of four countries, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland. Where's the other one? Hold on, break it down for him.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
The other one's England, where we're from. So England is one of the countries in Great Britain.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
I've done his research.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
That's right. Are we the first Brits on the podcast, or have you had more...
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Nottingham. Nottingham, yeah.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
You're like this every time we come to America about the crushed ice.
Duck Call Room
Uncle Si Turns British TikTok Stars from Redcoats to Rednecks
Okay, now we now have the answer. Why have you come here 25 times? We keep trying to smuggle it back, but it melts. Yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
To kind of circle back to a talking point in the podcast, I'd just like to find more congruence between how I show up and then how I feel. And then for that to feel like it's enough and not that it needs to be different or it needs to change.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say a majority of them, yes.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think frustration is good because when I, you know, I've worked really hard on a lot of things for five, 10 years, and that frustration has pushed me to keep working on it.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That's a great thing.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It does... Give me that ability to start working on something that I'm very fearful of. We talked about statistics and to tackle a big project. I feel very anxious that I'm not capable and prepared. But that anxiety on the other side of it is, well, I should do it to be able to. Or I could do it to be able to then learn it and understand it and become more proficient at it.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And it probably keeps me from doing anything that would actually be hurtful or like something that would actually like put me at risk. So it does keep me safe.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That's very important.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That's very powerful, yes.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would say the thing that overwhelmingly comes to mind is that I really care about other people.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would say it shows me that I have... high expectations that I can achieve something and can be successful at what I do and work toward, and that I'm just on one side of it or experiencing the side where I'm working toward that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's very powerful.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's very important.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's very important that I...
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
like experience sadness um because i can also experience and understand other people who are going through the same thing so my mom um is having a bunch of tests done to figure out why she's having certain symptoms and to be able to empathize with her um and kind of share my feelings about what she's going through is very important to me well yeah that is that a beautiful thing
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, it's very beautiful.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, that's right.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I would say guilt is... The thing I appreciate about it is that it shows me that I can do something else to... You know, I can live up to the expectations that I've set for other people and for myself. So I can accomplish real. I can have really big achievements and I can find success. I don't like shame as much. Shame just generally feels bad.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So I don't know how many positives I can find in that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's kind of that same idea as guilt. It allows me to improve in areas that I feel like I have a lot of room to grow. So it shows me... You're honest. Yes. Yeah, that's exactly right.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's humbling. I think it allows me to keep a so-called level head and realize everyone's going through similar things, everyone's struggling, and that inadequacy is part of understanding that there are a lot of similarities.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's allowed me to develop a lot of independence and allowed me to have so many experiences that I don't think I would have had if I wouldn't have felt lonely and sought out community and things that I think would help me develop as a person and become more capable.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
They don't sound very good. I would say they allow you to kind of function around other people in more socially desirable ways.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's very important. Yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I think that's right.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would say it's another driving force. It really pushes me to do everything in my power. prevent it, basically, to restore hope.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. One, it was it was kind of nerve wracking for me to ask if we could we could do that. But I thought it'd be really fun because I listened to you on the psychiatry and psychotherapy podcast. You had a fantastic interview with Dr. David Pewter and you talked about imposter syndrome and vulnerability. And I was like, oh, that would be really fun to almost recreate that on my podcast as well.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Kind of struggling to come up with something else.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That's very important.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I think that would be one of the most important parts of it.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I chose that I have, I think it shows also that I have high expectations and that I can see things through and be, I can, I can be successful. Um, and that anger is a part of like almost the friction of not, not, not achieving it, um, or being able to do it. Um, so it's kind of in line with frustration and anger is something that in my childhood I felt like was just
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
solely negative and solely kind of like used in a really kind of like aggressive judgmental way. And I think having it in this context is way more helpful.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
They're very real, yes.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Incredibly powerful.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Very important, yes.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And I went into it really nervous and kind of unsure. And honestly, having the ability to experience that firsthand just connected so many of the dots around the concepts you discuss at length in the podcast and in your books, which I found very helpful for myself. So I thought it was an absolute honor and really insightful and helpful to get a good sense of what those techniques really mean.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I would agree with that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
The number that comes to mind is around 20.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Is that enough? I think that's plenty, yes.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
You know, I've experienced a little bit of sadness during our conversation when you relayed stories about people you've worked with and their life experiences. And that was really beautiful, actually, to do that on the podcast. I would say maybe a 10 or 15. 10 to 15, yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say that's probably 15 as well.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Like 10. Is that enough inadequacy? I think that's plenty. I think, yeah, I think that's plenty. Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say 20. I'd say 20. I think loneliness is a good driver of kind of getting out and exploring the world.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
20.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Maybe 5. Anger doesn't feel as helpful.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say I'm not attractive.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
100%.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say that's like 90%.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That's probably 90% too.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's like 85%.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yes.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Because it's assuming that for all of the people who exist to perceive me, I'm saying that no one would find me attractive.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Because I would be assuming that people have the same... Preferences and standards. Yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
People have people there, you know, individual differences, really powerful and very real. So I think everyone's, you know, everyone has their own preference and own thoughts.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, it's an unrealistic standard.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Because, I would say, because it's untrue. So it's adhering to something that's untrue.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Makes me, I'm not sure I have a good answer for that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That sounds great.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay. Let's say Corey. Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, of course.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think you look great. I think you're a very attractive person.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I'm being honest with you.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Maybe 50.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Huh? What's that?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay. Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay. I'll start off as the negative Joshua.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yes, of course.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I do know who you are.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. I think that's untrue. I think you're just being very critical for no reason and just trying to bring me down.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think I won that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say big. Big or huge? I'd just say big.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
You know, Joshua, you... You're disfigured, and because of that, you're unlovable. And that's an unavoidable thing you're going to have to deal with.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
The last thing I think we talked a lot and I'm kind of a little nervous to ask this, but we talked a lot about team. Could we role play a little bit to give an idea to the listeners of what that is actually like?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, so you had acne growing up, and now you have scars as a result, and that makes you look different from everyone else.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
What's that, Joshua?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So who won? You won. Big or small? It was big. Big or huge? It was massive.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
There was a lot of acceptance there. There was acknowledgement of things that you've done, I've done. And it was just... felt so authentic and so um so okay with you know the way things are and um controlling the controllables and um not letting that get in your way and be something that's like defeating and draining
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, that's right.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, actually, that, you know, I just checked the time, and very sadly, I do need to end this conversation and... It's been fantastic, and I don't want to say it's been a dream, but to be able to talk to you and experience this, David, has been a tremendous opportunity.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So if they haven't listened to a podcast, they would have a sense of what they could expect.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay, I can do two minutes, yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. Well, even if he is trying to bullshit me, it's okay to have what are thought of as flaws. And there are plenty of things that I have going for me that provide a lot of richness and value to my life. And those... make me more attractive to people and provide me with a sense of meaning and really allow me to then help and contribute to the lives of other people.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So regardless of any superficial appearances, that doesn't define me as a person.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say that I won. Big or small? I'd say big. Big or huge? I'd say huge.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, well, I could fail at what I'm currently doing, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be successful in any other host of possibilities and avenues of becoming a professional or providing for a family or contributing to the lives of my family and friends. So defining success in a very small way, I might fail.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
But broadly, I think I'm going to live a life that I ultimately want to live because I'm working hard at it and I have a lot of things going for me.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I think that's untrue. I might struggle and I might have to work hard to kind of get out of that sometimes. But I think ultimately I'm going to be happy and I'm going to be fulfilled and I'm going to be surrounded by people that I love and people who love me. And that is worth more than any superficial success or failure.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think I'm winning. Big or small? I'd say I'm winning big. Big or huge? Huge.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I don't feel anxious at all. Let's say zero.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Zero.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Zero.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Zero.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Zero. Embarrassed. Zero, surprisingly, for doing this on a podcast.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Zero.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Zero. And angry. Zero. I think that would be a negative if it could be.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'll be sure to reach out. I'm going to share everything that you have worked on, all the projects you have going on, all the all the products. And I hope people really do check out the podcast you produce. Check out the books you've written and check out the app. Feeling great. It's been an absolute honor. You're a legend. And, you know, you've taught me more in this two hour podcast than ever.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think almost anyone else has ever taught me about just being, you know, so warm and caring.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, it's great to see both of you as well. David, you're looking handsome as always. And Rhonda, you're looking incredible as well. Thank you. Tell us more. The one thing – I've reflected on this quite a bit and I've given it a lot of thought knowing that we were going to discuss it. And on my end, like what has it changed for me?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And has there been something that's been overwhelming enough to like, oh, wow, I can see this as a difference in my life. And the first thing I want to say – is the importance of actually experiencing the techniques.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So I've listened to over 250 episodes of the podcast and actually engaging in them with you, David, was incredibly insightful and almost like unlocked some secret to it, which is the positive reframing component for me has been a game changer.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And as someone, um, in graduate school, someone who has, you know, full-time job, a graduate assistantship, and then a course load on top of that, plus whatever research and work, other work obligations, seeing anxiety as a positive has been very helpful from just not seeing it as overwhelming and disruptive. Um, and seeing it as something like, Oh, this is good.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'm glad it's here because now this project I need to work on, um, I'll actually start working on it rather than just being anxious and wondering like why I'm overwhelmingly feeling anxious. I think being able to pin those emotions, um, to something and saying it's having an impactful or important role and getting me to do that or accomplish that or, or, or see it through. Um,
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
has been incredibly helpful. And if I can just relate a short story, I was getting a tattoo the other day and I kind of thought to myself like, wow, I wish this didn't hurt so much. And then I reframed it as I'm glad this hurts because if it didn't, that would probably be a big, a big issue if I could just get stabbed with a needle and not feel anything.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Um, so I thought that that specific aspect was really impactful for me as reframing anxiety and sadness as, as things that have
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I would say it's also I've noticed that, you know, different points in my life I've been able to be more accepting of certain qualities and features that I have. And, you know, if people people have gotten to this point, they've listened to our conversation and being able to.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
talk about how i feel about my my looks and appearance openly like that um that was actually something i've never really done and then oh wow yeah yeah and i would always skirt around it so i'd had therapists in the past where you know maybe i'd mention it and they would kind of allow me to skirt around it a little bit and feel comfortable not really divulging all the details um
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Being able to directly kind of be face-to-face with that, so to speak, kind of made it so I feel comfortable telling other people that more casually now. So I was talking to a friend and kind of mentioned like, oh, yeah, like I've had trouble accepting my appearance, thinking I'm ugly or whatever it is.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And it's like that's reduced the initial inability to talk about it or the shock of having to kind of come face-to-face with it. So I found that pretty powerful.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Oh, incredibly so, because I don't I don't really think about my appearance now. I just think about like with this, you know, if I want to talk to someone who I would be interested in, do we connect as people? Not am I attractive enough to be to warrant a relationship or to have?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That's right.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Well, and I've noticed that when I had that, when I would hold on to that flaw too much and try to hide it, I would be very judgmental towards others.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, it's it's liberating from the perspective of I've been able to do a lot of really cool stuff. And I like I've been able to, you know, develop a great podcast and I've been able to kind of pursue my education. I've been able to coach people to, you know, top five or whatever in the nation. And it's not that I'm defined by those things, but it's really cool.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I've been able to do it and then know that I'm capable of doing that instead of... It's like this weird thing where all I wanted to do was get a PhD. And when I got into the program, I could feel myself diminishing it. Like, oh, well, this one doesn't count. And being able to address that not good enough component and be like, actually... it is, it is good enough.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
You know, it is like, it is what I need and what's right for me. Um, that's been really liberating. I guess that's like the word of it, but it just feels good. Um, Rather than kind of that imposter syndrome. And it's not that I don't feel that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I mean, when I was when I great David graciously allowed me to be in the Tuesday group and I felt that's the immediate sensation I had was I'm just why am I here? Who am I? What have I done? What do I know? But instead of giving into that, it's like, OK, I'll just contribute where I can and listen to people who know a lot and, you know, see what see what it's all about.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I loved it personally because I think going like a deep dive into a technique, which was the achievement addiction and then in watching you and Jill role play and then talk through different scenarios or how it could be, you know, reversed and then having everyone break out and then practice themselves, I thought was very, very insightful.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And, you know, as someone who really appreciates like a lot of context and information, I felt like I was you know, a lot more understanding of something like achievement addiction after the fact. So I thought it was fantastic. And I can only imagine how beneficial it would be if you covered, you know, all of the techniques or, or, you know, as many as you could come up with really.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So I thought it was a great addition to.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Oh, you remember? I can't remember her name. I do remember there's a woman who was Australian in the group. Oh, yeah. And then there's a guy who was a general, like, I think it was a physician, like a general practitioner. And I think maybe Libby might have been a woman who was also in the group. But the leader, her name just escapes me.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Oh, it was great. It was so much fun.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So I thought, again, it's interesting because I've seen a therapist for months and months and months, and I've had one prior to the one I'm currently seeing. And I felt like we never really were able to sink our teeth into the distortion that I have. There's this idea of like acceptance and acceptance.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I even ended up listening to a book that she recommended about acceptance, like the heart of the Buddha or something. I don't remember exactly what it was called, but I never felt like there was always a gap between being accepting and like cognitively knowing I should accept myself. And that was because I, I don't think we really had any like techniques or really practice make it stick.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
If that makes sense.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So like actually engaging with it with you, David, and engaging with the distortions really helped me feel what that was actually like versus just like intellectualizing it.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay. I will say I'm not good enough is one that probably is like an overarching.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay. Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I've had many. I would say that I struggle with... self-esteem and self-worth. And, uh, I have this overarching or overwhelming feeling that I won't be successful and I won't kind of live the life that I would like to live.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think I'm hopeless is one that I often come back to. That's like a general distorted thought.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, and right before I do that, I want to say the fact that I'm having a harder time thinking of distorted thoughts now probably speaks to our experience together. It's like, ah, I haven't really thought about that stuff since.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So I would say, yeah, the treatment didn't work.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It didn't work on me. I'm different. There's something special about me that won't allow it to change my thoughts.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would like to start with the thoughts about, oh, this therapy or this treatment wouldn't work.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. I think she would hit harder.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. Well, I understand that I could be depressed and feel down at some point. And, you know, I'm okay with that because I think there are a lot of positives that come from feeling down and feeling sad. And... You know, kind of in knowing that, I also know that eventually I'm going to feel better because things tend to work like that. Like I felt bad in the past and I've felt better afterward.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So while that's true, I don't think it's, you know, reason enough for me to identify myself as someone who's just going to be depressed or going to be sad.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would say that I won that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I felt like it was large.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I mean, I felt like it was huge. I think if I told myself that, I'd be very convinced.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. Yeah. maybe I will be hopeless and maybe I will be hopeless for the rest of my life. And, you know, I guess that's something I can live with and something I can be okay with. Um, and, um, regardless, I still get to, I still get to do the things that I love to do and still get to, to be a part of a community of great people that I have, you know, next to me. Um,
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
So even if I feel hopeless, I can still share experiences with people and still share my life with them.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think I won.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I didn't feel as confident in that one.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Okay. Joshua, I know you, uh, have been feeling hopeless and that feeling's never going to go away because you're just not really, uh, worth having any hope. You just, it's just, it's something that you're never going to encounter.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I thought you won that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say big.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would say huge. And the reason why I would say that is I connected with, maybe I tend to feel this way, or maybe this does come up for me often. Yeah. And that acceptance of it not being permanent, and then also there are great things they get to be involved with and accomplish and do. That really could, for me, put a really nice spin on it.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
All right, Joshua. Here's the... cold, hard truth. You're always, yeah, I love truth.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. So you're just, you're meant to be hopeless. There's no way you're ever going to experience any form of hope. And that's just the burden you have to bear.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I thought that was great.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
No, I don't think you're going to be hopeless for the rest of your life. I think it's just a feeling that you're having. And it's not at all reflective of who you are, not at all reflective of what you've done, not at all reflective of your background, your upbringing, any of that. I think it's just a transient thing you're going to experience.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And eventually, you're going to be out of that and into greener pastures.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
It's absolutely true, 100%.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
That's true.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. That was great.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. Well, what, what specifically isn't good enough?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. Yeah. I would, I just curious because, um, if, if I don't know, then there's something I can't work on or, or, or change. Um, And if I know, and I don't want to change it, then that's, that's perfectly okay too.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I won that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I think it was large. Large or huge? Huge. Because when I know there's something specific, I, I feel like I have the power to change it. Um, And to relate this just to weightlifting a little bit, I like to look at those problems in the same way. It's like if I know why we're not making progress or seeing a result, I can change it and I can have a hand in that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
If you're just saying this is bad, that doesn't tell me, it doesn't give me a bunch of information. If you just say it's good too, it doesn't give me a bunch of information. It's like what specifically is good about it, what specifically is bad or could be changed.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Thank you.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
What's that?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'll have to put that quote on my podcast.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah. Well, I mean, personally, I like being different. I think it makes the world a more interesting place. And I think that difference is going to allow me to kind of stand out and be a really valuable part of, you know, the world. the people I coach and the friends and family that I have. Um, and I don't think that means the treatment isn't going to work because I'm different.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Um, I just think it means that I have a unique skillset and, and, uh, ability to, to kind of be a part of the communities I'm in. So, yeah, I think, I think it's going to work.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I won.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say big.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say huge.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Well, I think what I'm really appreciative of and what I found very useful is that I don't know if I had heard the relapse prevention training before.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
uh like example on the podcast so to experience it actually was very very helpful because those thoughts about the treatment not working are the exact same as the thoughts that preceded the treatment about myself yeah they're no different and they're using the same tools and techniques to say like uh this isn't really like something i have to take as truth at face value yeah
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
And I think it's important that you brought that up because when I first started coaching, I focused on kind of the sets and reps and performance. And now I'm just so people focused that like the performance matters. If I'm coaching, say, coaching Danny Myers, she placed fifth in the nation twice in a row. So last year she was fifth. This year she was fifth. Performance definitely matters.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
But how she feels like. Per as a person matters first. And then we can layer on the means and methods because that stuff's just I mean, it's it's kind of like stress. It's stimulus response. You do something, you get a response. But making sure the person who's carrying that out is cared for and taken care of, to me, is the most important thing. Yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I haven't always been like that, but I think the resources you put out, David, the resources great people like Stephen Hayes have put out and all the kind of the psychologists I've listened to and read about. It's reminded me that, you know, people are at the heart of this and then performance is just kind of like an adjunct to that. So I would say it's I'd say it's very, very important.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, thank you both so much. It's an honor. David, you're a role model to so, so many. And Rhonda, you're an absolute great host and contributor. Much appreciated.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, related to intimate connections, I won't find love, like romantic love. Mm-hmm.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Thank you both.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I it's kind of hard to say on a podcast. I think I'm ugly. So I think I'm not attractive and worth being with.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
They're very defeating. They feel like even if I were to intellectualize them and reject them, that it's just true regardless.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, it makes me feel hopeless.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would say yesterday I felt probably like a 90 to 95 for various reasons, but I'd say it definitely contributes to I deal with anxiety quite a bit. A 95. How sad and down? I would say probably the same, 90, just thinking about the trajectory of my life and where it's going.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yes, I'd say I feel probably like 85, 90 with those as well. Okay, 85 to 90 on guilt and shame.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
85.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I'd say 85. 85.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
A little bit less. I'd say 70.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
75.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I would say those are probably the overwhelming feelings, shame, embarrassment, hopelessness.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Yeah, I would say that that's very accurate. I. Yeah, I think like there's an aspect of like loneliness and maybe being understood and. Yeah. I know that people very close to me, like my best friends, I can talk to them and they'll empathize. But professionally, it's hard to hard to communicate that and feel authentic and be able to show up in a way that I'm actually feeling.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
I feel like you have to wear a mask and put your best clothes on, so to speak. And that that makes it even more difficult. I would just rather tell someone like I am really struggling and doing the best I can.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Go ahead and I'll wait.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Well, just to cut to the chase here a little bit, if you're on high doses of benzodiazepine, certainly don't try to treat yourself, but do it in conjunction with a medical doctor. What's the best way for you to taper?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
One other thing that you said that took me aback a little bit, you said, if I heard correctly, that if someone comes into the emergency room with a panic attack, instead of giving them a 30-day dose of benzos, you should refer them to a psychiatrist for CBT. And I don't think there are – there's only one psychiatrist in the United States who's good at CBT. And he doesn't do CBT anymore.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
He does team, which is awesome. And his name is Matt May. But I don't think there's a lot of psychiatrists who would – use psychotherapy rather than just more drugs.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And if I was in an emergency room, I'd want to be able to refer people with anxiety or depression to psychologists and clinical social workers and people who have expertise in team CBT or traditional CBT rather than people who were trained mainly to prescribe medications.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Awesome point. Let's look at Gray's intriguing question about music. And thank you for that detailed expertise, Matt. Much appreciated.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
No, it wasn't.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Josh. Well, thank you so much, Josh, for those kind comments. And I think we have a question from you, too, or maybe that's just the endorsement that I wrote. But it means a lot to get the question. Three is the Josh. Thanks, David, for techniques. And so maybe that's that that is that that third question there. But I really appreciate that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Well, I'll give my answer first because it's very short. Usually I give my answer last. But I agree with Gray that music can be beautiful, especially the songs we love, the certain songs for each of us just fill our heart with so much peace or sadness or beauty. And And that can be a magical and emotional experience.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I don't think we have to look for thoughts in the form of sentences to explain our reaction to music. I'm not aware of thoughts triggering the reaction to music. I once asked Beck, you know, aren't there perceptions other than like a sentence with a negative or positive thought that can figure our emotions? And he said, yes, cognitive therapy is not about thoughts. It's about perceptions.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And, for example, in anxiety, the perception that makes you anxious might be a picture in your mind. Let's say you have a fear of elevators. You may picture that elevator closing off. And so you're terrified of elevators, thinking that the walls are going to crush you or the oxygen is going to disappear or you're going to get trapped. And you kind of picture this.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And I thought that was very liberating that cognitive therapy is all about, it should be called perception therapy. And I guess you could say that music is a kind of auditory perception that can move our hearts or anger us to warfare, you know, that there's a lot of kinds of emotional reactions to music.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And that's about all I have to say, because I don't have expertise in this particular area, but I thought it was a really neat question.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And remember that we have a podcast on the four techniques for working with anxiety. The hidden emotion is certainly an important one, but it's only one of four. And if you want to get complete elimination of anxiety, and you may be doing this already, but you want to use not only hidden emotion model, but the motivational model, the cognitive model, and the exposure model. As well.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Maybe that book is good. When I hear a question like that, I have a very powerful answer. I don't know. Yeah. When people try to explain things in words that don't make any sense to me, I'd rather just say, I don't know. There's a lot of things we don't know. And just because we're a psychiatrist or a psychologist or whatever doesn't mean that we have special insights into everything.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, that's right. There we go.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Right. That's a beautiful Buddhist thought. But what does it have to do with music? I know.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah. Okay. Well, let's bullshit on some other topic. By the way, I see that Josh's question, that was the beautiful endorsement you wrote, was the third question.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And I have an additional partial answer for Josh, and that you'd be welcome, because you are a mental health professional, and all strengths who are listening, whether you're a pastoral counselor, a psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker, whatever, if you're doing clinical work, You'd be welcome to join either my Jill Levitt and my Tuesday group at Stanford or Rhonda's Wednesday group.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Oh, in November.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
So, yeah. And then your group is once every other week. No, no. It's every week.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Did you think we were talking about you, Rhonda?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah. Well, you can give that information in a minute. But when is your group meet, Matt?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
So we'll put the contact information for all three of us. And Rhonda, you can add the contact information for your group, who is Anna Teresa. Is she still the contact person? Yes. Yeah. And we'll put that in. And then ours is Ed Walton for our Tuesday group for 5 to 7 p.m. That's the Stanford group. And Matt, you'll see his website and email too in the context.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
So if you are a shrink, we would love to have you join us for a period of time or a long period of time. And we practice team CBT techniques. Okay, on to question number four.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But thank you so much because we do share our best for free. And when someone like you writes in and says, hey, the message is getting through, thank you. That means a tremendous amount to all of us. So thank you so much.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Okay, I'll let you two take first crack at this, and then I'll come in at the end. If you like, if you want to answer it. I have some thoughts on that. How about you, Rhonda?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Okay, Matt, take it away. What's your thoughts for Harold?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
That's great. I love your answer, Matt. That's brilliant. I might add that if some of our listeners are interested in taking a look at the Feeling Great app, we have a class in there called Your PhD in Shoulds and talk about specific techniques to get rid of self-directed shoulds like I shouldn't be so screwed up, I should be better than I am, etc.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Other directed shoulds, when you're telling yourself person X, Y, or Z is a jerk, he shouldn't be that way, he's got no right to be that way. And then world directed shoulds, which is kind of like the ones you have, life shouldn't have so much suffering and so little joy. So that's my first point. My second... I mean, you really hit the nail on the head there, Matt.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
That was brilliant, what you said. I loved it. The second thing, I wrote back and told Harold, if he were in a session with me, how I would respond to him, or if we were just friends talking. And that's the... The Maury anti-moaner technique that is described in Feeling Good.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
When someone is just complaining, complaining, complaining, I respond with the disarming technique, thought and feeling empathy, I feel statement, stroking and inquiry. I don't try to help the person. And I give some examples in the show notes. Like if you be... In fact, let's just demonstrate it.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I'll be Harold and one of you can be the friend and modify how to respond to a complainer using the five secrets. Does either of you want to give it a try?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
You know, life is just so much suffering and so little joy. That's so true.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Okay, what grade did you give yourself?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yes, I agree. And I thought that you didn't try to help. You were just a good listener. And the big mistake that everyone makes, except for you, Matt, and a few other people in the world, is they try to help the person or encourage the person or solve the problem. That forces the whiner, the complainer, just to keep going. To keep complaining.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
So that's how I would handle it on an interpersonal level. What I also said to Harold, and let me go back to my notes here, is that this is nearly always a hidden emotion problem.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
When someone is obsessing about the meaning of life or some vague thing, there's often something real in their life that they're upsetting about, that they're not confronting, they're not dealing with, and instead they're just kind of complaining about life in general. And the solution is often to find the thing that you're really kind of upset about.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And I exchanged a couple emails with Harold, and what turned out is he had made a kind of a common error in dating and got rejected. And what it appeared to be is that he was talking to some woman, and was saying, you know, would you like to go out sometime?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And she said, yes, but when he tried to pin her down, she said, oh, I have to check my schedule, and I'll get back to you in about a week or so. And he agreed to that. And she's really giving him the runaround, and he's falling for it. And I don't mean to blame women. Women will do that. Men will do that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But that's something you don't want to fall for, that kind of thing, and get out of that situation. Because what happened then, that she just made him wait a week, and then she didn't contact him, and then he contacted her back. And then she said no at that point. And so he just kind of had a week of his life scooped out. And you don't want to give someone that kind of control over you.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And, you know, when people are having trouble with dating, you know, I sometimes suggest the book... intimate connections, which he'd actually said he'd read three times, which I was really, really proud of him.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And then maybe get a colleague or something, a therapist or a friend who's pretty good in the dating arena and learn a bit more about dating strategies, because there's a lot to learn about it and to focus on the real problems in your life. But there's a lot of other techniques one can use in addition to the ones we've talked about here.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I want to say that I admire Harold because he's put in tremendous effort into his personal recovery efforts. And I've never met anyone who put in that kind of effort who didn't get really good results that just really trying will eventually open the door you're looking to. You're looking to get open. But it can be frustrating.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I know I was really lame in the dating world myself for a long time and everything I did was incorrect. and eventually I kind of found a mentor who was, you know, well, let's say a shameless womanizer, so everyone will hate me for saying that, but he was. He was Palo Alto's, you know, most famous womanizer, and women used to say how awful he was.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
All he cared about was sex, but he used to go around just picking up women, All day long. And behind his back, they'd tell him, talk about how awful he was. But when he was around, they always wanted to be around him. And he was having a pretty good time.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Well, it's fun to get a note all the way from Bangladesh. It seems impossible, but life has gotten so amazing with all kinds of wonderful and awful as well, unexpected things happening all around the world. I'll give my answer quickly and then see what additional things Matt might have or... You, Rhonda, might have.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And he took me under his wing and kind of gave me a lot of pointers and tips on how you date and what that world is like and what works and what doesn't work. That was the thing I loved most. the most when I was in clinical practice because 60% of my patients were single and didn't know how to get into the dating scene.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And I learned so much from that fellow who in my book I called Bill to disguise his identity, but his real name was Michael. But I couldn't find him. You know, I know his last name, but I want to ask permission. And I called up a lot of people with his name, but it wasn't the same guy, so I never knew what happened to him. But we made a weird friendship. He lived with his mommy.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
He said he was a mommy's boy, and he had a part-time job at Bloomingdale's selling men's clothing, and he had a motor scooter. not a car that he rode around on. But there was something about him that women just found absolutely irresistible. And I kind of learned eventually how that works.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
So there is a lot to learn, and sometimes if you're too sincere and too nice, you get shot down, and that's true if you're a guy or a lady. And...
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Talk about that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah. Well, it was a joy working with you, Matt. It's always been a joy knowing you as a friend and working with you as a colleague and formerly as a supervisor when you were a psychiatric resident. And it was just so much fun. And it's still so much fun.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But I'll never forget the night that you had gotten over all this anxiety and being jerked around by women and the shoe suddenly was on the other foot. And I remember you came to me once and said, David, I'm in terrible condition and I need your help. And I said, well, what's the problem? And you said, I got confused and made a mistake and I have three dates scheduled for tonight.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Oh, yes, that's right. Happy New Year. Happy Rosh Hashanah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But there was a study, and this was, you know, it was a good 20 years ago, but it's still vivid in my mind. I don't even remember the reference to it, but I'm sure it exists somewhere on the web. But it was a study done at Harvard. And the conventional thing in going off of benzodiazepines, that's drugs like Xanax, Librium, Valium, Ativan, and that type of thing.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Well, what is the overwhelmingly main, massively important thing to do to help someone who's complaining about world events? Because there's plenty of world events to complain about. So let's say in the empathy phase, someone's upset about politics and the Ukraine and Palestine and Israel and Putin and Alzheimer's.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
all the awful things in the world, big and small, and you've empathized, and they give you an A in empathy. What is the overwhelmingly most important key to successful treatment, Rhonda, with that person?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Absolutely. That's it. And you don't get hooked into, you know, throwing help at people just because they're talking about problems. You know, if a miracle happened in today's session, what miracle would you be happy hoping for? Right. And we certainly can't end the war in Ukraine or, you know, cure the political quagmire in the United States.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But we have all kinds of ways to work with someone, but it depends on what they want help with.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, it's a good one. And the next one is a great one. I'll be right back. Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I'll give you my answer right now. I have to take a pee, and so I'll be right back to give my answer.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, I'm back. I think it just made us seem more human, but that's just my point.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Well, it's a short question, so let's push ahead.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, now we're going to go on to question number five from Maritz.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Okay, I can give a quick first answer, but I have to correct one thing. You said real psychological disorders with known causes. All psychological disorders have unknown causes, but there are real brain disorders like schizophrenia and bipolar that are really due to some biological error in the brain that we don't yet know.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And at my hospital in Philadelphia, we developed a large cognitive therapy program for the people in our inner city neighborhood. And there were many of them had schizophrenia or bipolar. including some needing hospitalization kind of involuntarily because they were so severely out of control. But when I've worked with people with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder,
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
They're all so-called, used to be called minor tranquilizers. is that a lot of them, like Xanax, go in and out of the blood very quickly. And so when it goes into your blood, you just feel wonderful. And all your cares are gone. And if it's evening, you can fall asleep and wake up feeling terrific. But the problem and your anxiety is improved or goes away completely.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I've worked with them in the same way I would work with anybody. I don't try to treat schizophrenia. Sometimes people with schizophrenia need to have neuroleptics if they're in a state of acute, severe paranoia or psychosis. But the things that I would be helping them with, say, as an outpatient, is exactly the same. Is there something that you would like help with?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And generally it's with their moods, in which case we'd pull out a daily mood log and write down their negative thoughts and the event and the emotions and identify the distortions and talk back to those thoughts. And I've worked with many, many people with schizophrenia, but I'm not trying to challenge their delusions or paranoia, just give them a greater sense of self-esteem.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
People with bipolar, I've treated many people with bipolar disorder, And again, during the acute phase, they may get so, of mania, get so psychotic that they need one hospitalization to understand what they're dealing with and to get on some kind of mood stabilizer like lithium is the one I used. I think they're using some other medications that work fairly well.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But they need the same help as anyone with the feelings of depression. It seemed like bipolar patients often had a lot of perfectionism and all-or-nothing thinking and thinking they had to be so great to be loved or to be worthwhile. And I found that helping them with that was life-changing for many of them. And some of my most patients I look back most fondly had bipolar issues.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And and and before I learned cognitive therapy or team therapy, I for a while I ran the lithium clinic at the VA hospital in Philadelphia. And all I had was drugs, drugs, drugs to offer. And those poor guys were going in and out of the hospital like a revolving door. And I can't remember a single one of them who seemed to have a decent adjustment to life, to be honest with you.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
There was a lot of alcoholism and a lot of unhappiness and a lot of pills that we were prescribing. And once I started doing my outpatient practice, I still got bipolar patients, but they did just fantastic because I had something to offer them by way of psychotherapy. I also would say that working with people with schizophrenia or bipolar, for all of us, the therapeutic relationship
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
is important. We all want someone to feel fond of us and to care about us and to approve of us and accept us. But I think that's especially true with schizophrenia and bipolar, that the kindness and warmth that you extend to people with schizophrenia or bipolar, many of them will never forget you. And it means so much. But you also want to have technical skills.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And let me say finally that at our hospital in Philadelphia, we had an inpatient unit for people with extreme psychotic episodes. And one of our clinical social workers created a series of cognitive therapy games. We didn't have team therapy yet at that time, but we had cognitive therapy And he created about 40 games. And he would have the patients on the inpatient unit play these 45-minute games.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Like instead of group therapy, you get together with a group and you kind of play a game designed to illustrate some aspect of cognitive therapy. Like there's the paranoia game and the high George game and things like that. And they really enjoyed playing those games, and they would learn about, like, the cognitive distortions, like mind reading, for example, the paranoia game.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But then when it goes out of your body, you go into a kind of withdrawal, which is the opposite. The anxiety comes back and you get insomnia. And the conventional wisdom was to convert patients on Xanax to a long acting patient. benzo like Klonopin, which has a long half-life, so it goes out of the blood very slowly, so you don't get those sharp withdrawal dips, which happen quickly and intensely.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
He would have all of them sit around a circle and give them an envelope with, if there were 12 patients with 12 pieces of paper, and say, I want you to write down one nice thing about each person here, and then fold it and hand that piece of paper to them. And then when someone gives you a piece of paper, put it in your envelope, don't read it.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And so they're all busy, you know, writing down nice things about each other and handing them around. And so it's not like typical, you know, inpatient treatment. Now, keep in mind, they're seeing a psychiatrist, they're getting medications that they might need, but they're playing these games all day long.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And so they hand them around, and then he would go around to them one by one and say, do you think you know what people said about you on those slips of paper in your envelope? And they'd say, oh, yes, I know exactly what they're saying about me because I can hear people's thoughts. and say, okay, what do you think they're saying about you?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And this one woman said, they're saying they think I'm a prostitute and they're scheming to try to get my gold. And then George said to her, how strongly do you believe that? And she said, I know that's, because I know that's what they're thinking because I can hear their thoughts. And he said, why don't you take and read them out loud one by one.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And then she took out the first one and it said, you know, Rose, I want you to know that you're the person on the inpatient unit who's helped me the most, even more than the doctors and nurses, because when I'm upset and I talk to you, you really listen. God bless you, Rose. I can't thank you enough.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And every piece of paper had some beautiful comment by someone, and tears came to her eyes because when people have schizophrenia, they're often hard to relate to, so they don't hear a lot of affectionate and kind comments from other people. We get kind of frustrated with people with schizophrenia, and we argue with them about their hallucinations and delusions.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And this was a very different way of connecting. And we didn't have the goal of curing anyone with schizophrenia, but just helping them develop joy and self-esteem given their severe condition.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
biological problem and I used to see they would show me letters that they got from families or patients who had been discharged from our inpatient unit just saying and they were often written in kind of broken English you know not very extremely articulate but things like God bless you for the helping me so much or helping my my son so much on the inpatient unit and things like that and
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And the neighborhood really, really appreciated our programs. They even had a feeling good day every six months at the hospital. They'd give out feeling good T-shirts. They started a feeling good jazz band. And it was quite the thing. But it was really based on bringing compassion to a group of people who had very few resources.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Well, the question is just how do you help someone with bipolar or schizophrenia, so-called real brain disorder, as opposed to just depression or anxiety? Right, yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And so they randomly assigned... People who had dependency on, I think it was Xanax was the one that they were using. And they first switched them over to Klonopin. And there were two groups, random assignment groups for the patients. And one group just got the traditional Xanax.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I had a young teenager referred to me who had one of the... severe brain disorders more in the area of limited intelligence. I'm trying to think of which one. It might have to do with your brain getting squashed during the birth process. I'm not sure. But she had very, very limited intelligence.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
mental functioning, and she was in a high school, but in the special classes for people with severe mental, you know, cognitive impairments. And she had been getting all A's, but she got mad at her teacher, so she refused to study for some quiz, and she got an F. And And then she became suicidal because she flunked that quiz. And her parents brought her to me.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And I asked her, just as I would with anyone, you know, what are your thoughts? What are you telling yourself? And she said, because I flunked that test, I'm going to flunk everything from now on. And that's just the same kind of thought that anyone would have. She just put it in her own words. But, you know, it's an overgeneralization, all or nothing thinking, discounting the positive thinking.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
You know, mental filtering, fortune telling, emotional reasoning, self-blame, you know, should statements, all of that stuff. But I worked with her in a very simple way. I just said, the issue here is what grades did you get, you know, in your quizzes before this one? She said, I always got an A.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And, um, and then I would ask, uh, do you, do you think it's possible that if you start studying again and maybe talk to the teacher, what you were so mad at him about that, that then you could start getting A's again. Um, and, and, and then she would say something like, are you saying that I, it's not necessarily true that I'm going to flunk everything, uh, for the rest of my life.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And I said, yeah, that's what I've been hinting at, uh, And then she would say, could you explain that again? I'm trying to understand this. And we'd go through that 30 times in a row, the exact thing. And then by the end of the session, she said, are you saying that even though I flunked this one quiz, it doesn't mean I'm going to flunk all of my quizzes from now on?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And I said, that's what I've been trying to hint at. And she said, oh, I got it. I'm feeling so much better now. And so it was the same thing. It's just presenting things in a way that people can understand.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And again, it was sad because the goal wasn't to remove her severe brain damage, whatever it was that caused her very tragic and horrific cognitive impairment, but it was just to give them the gift of self-love and joy and self-esteem.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And it was using exactly the same kind of techniques, but delivering them in a way that someone can understand that takes into account who the person is, what is their social functioning, what are their religious beliefs, their religion, their race, their social structure. How can you explain these things in a way that someone will understand from their point of view?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
withdrawal, slow withdrawal, like over a period of weeks, you know, switch them to Klonopin and then slowly withdraw the Klonopin by expert psychopharmacologists at Harvard. And the other group got the same exact pharmacologic treatment, but they also had a group cognitive therapy group every week.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
The principles are always the same.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
We can. One is just John expressing gratitude to us for our answers on positive reframing, which I have in the show notes that people can read if they like. That was from a previous episode. Okay, why don't I read that? Well, I was going to say we could skip it and go on to the last question, number seven.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
It's actually not at all complicated, number seven.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
No, it's only 30 seconds.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And the upshoot of it, as I recall, and I don't recall the details exactly, but there was a massive difference between the groups. And most of the patients, a good 80% of the patients in the cognitive therapy group were able to withdraw successfully from benzodiazepines. And in the pure psychopharmacology withdrawal group, only like a minor percentage
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
What Rhonda is this?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, I love your, okay. I love your questions, Rhonda. And you want to know what are the four feared fantasy techniques. And there's four of them. For the approval addiction, they're for self-defeating beliefs. And if you're working on the approval addiction or perceived perfectionism, then you do the I judge you feared fantasy technique.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
If it's the achievement addiction, you do the high school reunion feared fantasy. If it's the love addiction, you do the rejection feared fantasy. And if it's submissiveness, you do no practice. And now you know the answer.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And we could go on much longer on this and other role-playing techniques, but it is Rosh Hashanah, the first chapter. day of the Jewish New Year, if I understand it correctly. And our love goes out to everyone who's celebrating Rosh Hashanah. You won't hear this until much later. It'll be like four or five weeks from now.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But we still want to send our love and warmth and best wishes to all people in our podcast fans and people all around the world of the Jewish faith. Our love and Our hearts are with all of you. And we're so sad at so much trauma now in the world affecting Jewish people and the country of Israel. And I at least want to express my love and support.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, me too. Okay.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
OK, goodbye, everybody. Thank you for listening. We really appreciate all of you. We love all of you. And we're so glad you join us here on the podcast, sending your questions and criticisms and your praise. And and we just we love having the dialogue and turning it into a dialogue.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, that's right. Trialogue. Yeah, that's right. OK, so.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
fraction of them like 20 percent or 25 percent only were able to to to withdraw and so the moral of the story was that the cognitive therapy support greatly at least in that one study that i saw enhanced the success in withdrawing from benzos and i've also had some uh personal experience with this, not with that exact approach.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But when Xanax came out, the drug companies make a lot of claims initially for drugs that turn out not to be true. six months after the drug has been on the market. And when Xanax came out, they claimed it was not addictive and that it was helpful for depression and anxiety.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And so I thought, you know, sometimes I was having trouble getting to sleep at night, so I thought, well, I'll take the smallest dose, a one-quarter milligram of Xanax, and I would fall asleep, you know, quickly. and wake up the next morning feeling fantastic with no side effects or anything. And I thought, man, this is a magic bullet, this drug.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But then after being on it for a number of weeks, I realized that I was getting addicted to it and wanted to take two of them rather than And one of them. And I thought, this sucks. This is not good. And so I stopped taking them. And I went into withdrawal, which lasted about three weeks. And the withdrawal consisted just of, you know, anxiety and difficulty sleeping.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
But I just kind of toughed it out because I understood that that was just, you know, the natural chemistry happening in my brain. And after that, I was fine. And I think I probably did a gradual. I probably went from a full pill to a half a pill for a few days and then to a quarter pill for a few days and then no pill.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah, and then there was one pill I took once. I didn't do a lot taking this kind of pill, but another one came out that was touted for sleep. And it was also a more potent benzo that put you right to sleep. And I took one pill on one occasion, and I went into severe withdrawal from that. It put me to sleep, but as it went out of my blood, I got really wired up, something pretty intense.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
It was awful. And so I never took it again. Matt, you might remember the name of that.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
No, uh-uh. I don't remember the name of it. Klonopin or Klonazepam? Did you say Klonopin?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
I was just talking about Klonopin, the study at Harvard. Oh, okay. Maybe you didn't tune into that, but I'm very familiar.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah. David, you're very boring. Yeah.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yeah. So I don't prescribe them for anything. My colleague, Henny Westraw, a number of years back, and I think I put this reference...
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Yes, in the show notes, but she reviewed the entire world literature on treating anxiety, and she concluded that benzodiazepines not only are not effective in the treatment of anxiety, they always make anxiety worse because you just get dependent on them, and then they make it almost impossible to recover anxiety.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
And she said the most effective treatment for anxiety is cognitive therapy with no medications. And that's how I've always treated anxiety for the past 25 or 30 years. So now I will shut up and give it over to my better angels, you might say, Rhonda and Richard.
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Great. What do you think, Matt?
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Or Xanax.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Thank you to Samsung Galaxy for sponsoring this episode.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Do you and Claude think about, like Paige and I think about that with our kiddos. Are you and Claude thinking about that?
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
You like working out. Not working out, but you like playing basketball. For sure.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
It's interesting. Like my son at school, the great state of California, shout out, all kids in public school get free lunch and free breakfast. That's nice. So on Tuesday and Thursdays, they have pizza and they get it out. It gets brought in from Domino's. Wow. Yeah. Delish. High end. Delish. Not like the little French roll pizzas like we had.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
And they have a lovely salad bar for the kids, like, you know, fruits and some veggies, cucumbers, carrots. And each kid only gets one slice. But Tuesday and Thursday, usually we pack his lunch three days a week. And we know Tuesday and Thursday, he loves getting the pizza. And so we don't make it a thing.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
We like a barter. This is the perfect barter. Perfect barter. And put our face not on a 787, but a regional jet, a CRJ 1295. No problem. The jet that goes down? Yes. Inevitably? Our faces in the Potomac.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
We just go, yeah, have your one slice of pizza Tuesday and Thursday and Friday night or Tuesday, Thursday night will be chicken and rice or something rather healthy. But we don't want to limit it.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Yeah. Wow. We're so deep. We really are. Speaking of food, I have brought from a little eatery. You're kidding me. Not well known. It's called Russ and Daughters. You're kidding me. Are you familiar with this? They happen to have a location on 34th Street straight out of the Lincoln Tunnel.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
So I got two and I thought we could do halves and halves. Halves and halves. Halves and halves.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Okay, so I went a tuna, and then I added, they didn't have lettuce, but I added the onions. No capers.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Tuna salad from Toro. Can you imagine? Jesus Christ. This is the best. I'm so sorry. You can turn off. We are such fat, fat, fatty here.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
I'm having the whole thing. Yeah, you can take a nice five-minute break. Come back in. But I'm telling you, shout out Russ and Daughters in New York City.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
It really should be. And then this, of course, the classic Nova scallion cream cheese.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Thank you. And these bagels aren't that big. Yes. They're well-sized. They're designer.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
They can't wait to sponsor us now. Oh my God. Shout out to those poor souls. We apologize. It's horrible. So this is how I get it planned out. I'm here doing a talk for Meta. Heard of it?
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
I have no idea, and I don't want to know. Caper, you know I like caper because it also means a heist. Okay. Let's go have a caper. Yeah. Oh, this is so good. We're on a bit of a caper. Benjamin, I just want to share with you because I like sharing things that mean something to me. Yes. You mean something to me. Thank God. We go out. What am I? This is Ben. This is my Ben. You do.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
This is, you know. I'm arm candy. I'm your arm candy. Yes. Yes. But you know that my Galaxy S25 Ultra means a lot to me too.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
It's replacing you adjacent. Listen, it's the ultimate AI companion. We know this.
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Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
But are you familiar with night video? Are you seeing what's happening here?
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
You ever tried to shoot video on your phone? It's past magic hour. It's now dark out. It's like, this sucks.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
It's just not good. No. But, you know, finally now with night video, low light situations, noisy backgrounds, things, they finally, Samsung has figured out how to optimize the settings so that when you're filming at night, you're getting those wow worthy videos that we want.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
And have you used night video? Because I'm out here on them streets at the club and I'm shooting with it. It's literally a way in which for me to capture things in low light situations and still make it look beautiful. Yeah. And things at night are beautiful, Josh.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
And it's the audio eraser. It's AI powered, right? Yes.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
You know where we're at at night. The club. Oh, yeah. We're partying. Yeah. So we need that night video, right? So it looks cool. You know, it's a dark club. We want it to look. We're fist pumping. We're popping bottles. Then you got the audio eraser because you got all this background noise. You got to isolate, man. You got to get that quality.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Well, the truth of the matter is the Galaxy S25 Ultra is available at Samsung.com.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Thank you. Baruch Hashem. Listen. Okay. And for only $65, you too can get two bagels from Russ and Daughters. No, it was actually like 15 bucks each. It's not crazy. That's pretty good. Yeah. Listen, Russ and Daughters, man. Oh my God.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Anything hot? Let's see. What's going on in the world? Anything steamy? Okay. Let's see. Bisexuality is a near universal experience in primates, humans included. I've been telling you. This is from the New York Post. But which way does your sexuality swing? The bisexual cohort, those who are sexually attracted to both men and women, is growing.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
A 2024 Gallup poll showed that 4.4% of American adults say they are bisexual, including 57.3% of those who already identify as LGBTQ+.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
But 57%, so more people than who say they are just purely straight.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
I read it as showed that 4.4% of American adults say they are bisexual, including 57.3% of those. Oh, okay.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
He wore, he did a tribute, a testimony to Benson Boone's incredible performance. Is that his name, Benson Boone? I think so. I feel like a dad. Yeah, no, he's Benson Boone.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
I'm not. I'm just totally open to it, except it doesn't do much for me.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
I fall in love with men emotionally. Me too. Right. Spiritually. Of course. Give a nice kiss on the cheek. Yes. I love get half a lip. You know, you kind of go in.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
I just don't. And, like, that's also the thing for me. Like, whenever it becomes politicized or controversial in any way, I'm like, are you freaking nuts? What is? Like, just in general, where, like, recently there was something about, I don't know whether it was in the government or whatever, but removing the plus. From the LGBTQ. It's like, let's just assume there's a lot we don't know.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
I'm pretty sure 30, 40 years ago, we couldn't have known what we know today when it comes to the spectrum of sexuality and being attracted to whomever. Just like, just let people love.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Always. Always. Always. What about, what are you currently worried about that you have no business being worried about?
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a present, which is why they call it presents. God, that deserves a bite of tuna. Wow. That deserves a bite of tuna. You got a foot in yesterday and a foot in tomorrow, and you're pishing all over today. Ooh. Yes. That's good. I know. Josh. Moe Robbins. Josh. We could do what she's, Mel Robbins, who is it?
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
It'd be cool if his name was Mercedes Benson.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
The slogan for mandolin should be, who needs fingertips? Not me. I've lost two fingertips this year from a mandolin. Slice right off. Awful. Well, did you know that more than half of Americans say they're turned on when their partner does chores? Why an untidy home could be a deal breaker. Shout out. More than half of Americans are turned on by their partners doing chores.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
According to a new survey studying the link between home cleanliness and romance, with a vast majority admitting an untidy home could be a deal breaker. Deal breaker. The most alluring chore of it all, according to experts at house cleaning company Home Aglow, doing the dishes, an everyday act that could wind up sparking a night of passion. Love it. It's good to be at home. Hey, Paige!
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Thousand percent. Hundred percent. All day long. We have a, you don't have this problem. We have a crawl space in our garage. It's not really a crawl. It's kind of like a, we have a very tall garage. It's almost two stories tall. I always wanted to get one of those car elevators. You should. Sick. Sick. Sick. Love that.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
So we have like an attic space, you know, about 10 feet above and it's a big platform. We can keep boxes. So whenever we go travel or whatever, my wife goes, please put the luggage up there or please put the kids old car seats up there.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Now I got to get, first of all, we don't have a ladder ready to go. We have one of the expandable ladders. So I got to expand this ladder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now just know in six to 10 years, I will be paralyzed.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
God forbid. It's too scary. It's too scary. I get up there. First, you don't even want to know this Jew getting up there. So first of all, I'm opening, you know, and I put it next to the space. Then I put on shoes because I go, if something happens and I got to jump, I don't want to break an ankle falling in bare feet. Sure. It's a crawl space, right?
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Maybe we go find the set where they're shooting today in New York City. I'm in. Quick crime scene. I'm in. Just as a fun aside, I did a movie with the great Peter Herman, who is Mariska Hargitay's husband. Yes. And I'll never forget he once said to me, he's like, you know, we love our family and it's great. And, you know, and I do well. I mean, I don't do well like my wife. Yeah. Peter? We know.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Should we get to a speak pipe? Yes. If you want to ask us questions, if you want advice, go to speakpipe.com slash good guys. Keep it brief. Brevity is key. We don't want your what are your nuts is. No. They're awful. We don't want your inquiries about our goings ons. If you need advice or have a question, you don't know. And listen, we're blessed. We get 30, 40, 50 a week. Million.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
I'm sorting through this, this track. Yeah. Too much. Just short question advice. No inquiries. No, this is not a comment box.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Right. Scorpio. Yeah. Well, this first one is from... Incarcerated. Incarcerated.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
I feel like I could, when the pickles get brought at Second Avenue Deli, at Factor's, at Cantor's, and you know, I gotta be downing 10 ounces of pickles. I think so too. 10 ounces to a pound.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Yeah, no, it's- You need a pickle fridge. Some people have a meat fridge. A pickle fridge. Yeah. But again, they're not perishable, so it doesn't need to be refrigerated until opened. True. Okay. But they leaked, which is weird.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Yes, the great Len, my friend, my bet on the West Coast says that he works in trucking logistics, 20 years, the master, master operator. Now he too, sometimes will run into a problem where the driver of the big rig, Tough on turns. And the pallets, the freight shifted, as you know. Yeah. You're a huge beverage entrepreneur.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Sounds like me. He's an amazing guy. Just the Hargitay, the Hargitay Hermans. Come on the show. We'd love to have you. A gorgeous family.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Right. Or it's awful. Continue. And you, have you ever had Spritz rejected?
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Yeah. It's interesting. Like, so Len basically every like six months to a year will go some rejected, you know, drinks, food, whatever. is now at our truck yard. Yes. Because the people who made the sports drink or whatever, like we don't want it back if it was rejected because it shifted in transit or whatever. So then he goes, would you like 800 bottles of Mamba Forever body armor? Wow.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
And I go, thank you, but no thank you. Where the hell is that going to go? I know.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
His garage is just, it's a beverage paradise.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
And did you see on Kyrie Irving's live, Kyrie Irving, who plays for the team, the Dallas Mavericks, who traded Luka to Los Angeles. Luka, unless I misread this, was on the live saying, get away from that organization. That's wild. He feels done dirty. He was done dirty. I'm not going to get on the wrong side of a Serbian. I've seen Jean-Claude Van Damme movies. Oh, yeah. What? Or is he Slovenian?
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Well, you know who they're not going to mess up? This next caller. Let's hear from Anonymous. They might. You never know.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
The strangest part is that you would couple a beautiful homemade dish with an Olive Garden salad. Oh, that too. Weird. Wild.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
If you get Olive Garden salad to go, can you call up the store and have them deliver more? More. Yeah. Unlimited. Yeah.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Yeah, ZD Gate is really funny. And I, first of all, communal refrigerators in general, and I'll say this about the Dear Media office, they smell. Yeah, for sure. Of course they do. No one's cleaning it out.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
But, and then they never get cleaned out. And then they're always, they're always threatening. Everything's getting thrown out on Thursday.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
So good. So many interests you have. I know. The things you know. I know. And the things I don't. Oh, well, okay. So yes, you're flying. I plan this out. So I go, okay, I'm going to fly at night. You fly at night because at night, this is a wash. This means nothing. Right. So you utilize the time you'd be laying in bed. Yeah. I could fly in at four Tuesday afternoon. I landed at midnight.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
All I have to say to Leonardo is, Bom dia. Beautiful. Hello in Portuguese. Amazing. I love Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I love Rio de Janeiro. Love. I love... Who's your great player? Neymar? Sure. I love it all. Soccer? Football? Gisele Bundchen? Sure.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
I would love to. There's Brazilian Jews. There are. There are? We would do great in Brazil. I'm in. Anywhere but here. Yes. This place is gross.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Insane. Nuts. So nuts. My what are you nuts moment of the week, as I mentioned, as I teased, I flew the great United here. Love it. So wonderful. Wonderful airline. Polaris. My flat. I am schluffing, which is the Yiddish word for sleeping. I am having a nice schluff.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Because they have nice bedding. I got to say, again, not sponsored. Yeah. Because you usually get a pillow that's full of tissues.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Horrible. Horrible. They give you two. They give you a memory foam and a nice down Saks Fifth Avenue thing. Wow. So I'm sleeping. I'm schluffing. I'm beautiful. I feel... I wake up, mouth guard in, you know, I'm, yeah. The woman goes, the flight attendant goes, we're landing. It's time to wake up. I go, oh, sorry. Okay, gotcha. Now I go, look at where we are in space right now.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
You know, so I go up on the board, the little thing, and I see flight tracker, 32 minutes till landing. Till landing? Till landing.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
The producer passed out. It stinks so bad in here. Sorry, man.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Thank you to Samsung Galaxy for sponsoring this episode. Get your Galaxy S25 Ultra right now at Samsung.com.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
What am I doing? I'm sleeping more. Yep. You know? Yep. So I get on the flight and then this is what I do. I book a hotel airport. Look at me. Look at me, listeners. You book a hotel airport for the night before and the night after. Right? Yep. Check-ins at three. No. You landed at 6am.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
That's it. So I land. Bring your own padlock. That's it. I bring the little door alarm thing. You know, if it moves, woo, woo. Startle, take out my night guard. Fucking taekwondo. So I get there, 6 a.m. now. There's a Newark Marriott Hotel. Yes. It's nice, close, nice. $3.70 a night. Nuts. Nuts. Too much.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
It's a convention center? All Marriotts have a convention component and or ballroom. Interesting.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Where are you getting married? The airport hotel. I wanted to make it easy for people flying in.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
After parties at Hudson News. It's good. And so I go, but here's the thing. I know the hierarchy of the Marriott chain. And this is not sponsored in any way. And it should be. It should be. It's a shonda that it's not. Beyond. Now, as we all know, the Marriott Courtyard is the ultimate Marriott sort of commuter hotel. Yes. Great. No frills. Perfect. Modern. Beautiful.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
But then they have a class adjacent to the Courtyard. They're called the Fairfield Inn Suites and the Spring Hill Suites. Yeah. Where is no frills as possible, except they have breakfast. Yes. Gorgeous continental breakfast. Yes. They have coffee in the lobby. Yes. And a kitchenette. Fantastic. This I know. I look up the Spring Hill, which is a half a mile away from the airport. 110 a night.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
I said, I'll take the ADA room. They said, sir, you're completely abled. I said, so you think? I can't do these ADA rooms.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Yeah. When they hit the doorbell, the lights flicker.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
In the first 15 minutes, we've gone after the people who's tragically died in the Potomac.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
So I slept four hours on the plane. Okay. And we'll talk about that because that was its own Woody and Nuts. And then I go straight from the plane. It's around 540. Okay. I go right to my room. It's on the app, my key. Oh, what a luxury.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Tucked straight in. I go straight in. I go right into my room. Five minutes, wash up a little bit. I'm in bed by six, slept till 10. I got eight hours.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Well, Kazzy David, Larry David's daughter, who is spectacular. Spectacular. She would fit right in here. Oh, yeah. Kazzy. She would. Please, anytime.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
I don't want to know what you did. The good guys, we're not interested in your goodwill. No. No. The good guys, we're not interested in your ill will. No, I don't want it. If there's goodwill, great. If there's ill will, keep it to yourself. There's not the ill will games. No. There's goodwill games. Goodwill. Yeah. Should we go to a goodwill after this? Pick up a couple of coats?
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Yeah. Although the smell of thrift stores gives me post-traumatic stress from growing up impoverished. I understand. I understand. Like when hipsters are like, we're going thrifting. I'm like, spare me.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Well, it's elliptical, right? You give your stuff. The goodwill then uses that money to employ people who need jobs.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Yeah, it's sort of like one system. In my humble opinion, just in the recovery game, I think a wonderful sort of organization is the Salvation Army.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Because they have rehabs and they actually give people beds who are in need, who are addicted, what have you. Interesting. And part of their penance or part of their structured living to hopefully get out there and get a job and start their life again is they then go work for the Sally. That's what we call it. And they'll drive the trucks and pick up the furniture that you're going to give away.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
They'll run the store. So it's kind of great.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Sorry. Who are the Latin guys in the all white? Yeah, I don't know. What is that?
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
He said nothing. Because as my wife would say, she delineates Christianity and Catholicism. She is a Catholic. And she says Christian, while all-encompassing, sort of infers a different sect. And by that, I mean one less serious. So maybe she judged... His sect. He judged, probably. He was like, I'm not a Christian, I'm a Catholic. Or sorry, she incorrectly sected him. Misreligioned him.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
No one looks at you and goes, are you Mormon?
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
I am so proud of the way I set this trip up. Walk us through it. I would love to. Thank you. Flew here united. Red eye. Thank God. Shout out united. Wow.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Crazy. It begs the question for YouTube and social media families, right? Which is like, clearly, it's your family. They're your kids. Like, there shouldn't necessarily be any intervention with how in which you want to raise your children. But if you are putting them on the internet and making what I imagine is a good amount of money from it.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
They weren't spending that on Instacart. No. You know what I mean? No. No. But does that that does beg the question, though? Well, shouldn't that enter in child labor laws?
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Sounds like my mom had an audition when I was eight.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
That was the opposite. She was a feeder. Oh, my God. My mom's relationship with food was so fucked up. Literally at the beginning of the day, she'd be like, we are keto. So are you. So have a Diet Coke and some bacon and go to school. Me. And by the time I got home.
Good Guys
Live From New York... It's Thursday Morning!
Wow. You know what? This is a new era for me. And by that I mean I had a voucher I had to use by the end of March. Wow. But shout out Maggie and Jasmine at United. Hopefully one day the official sponsor of the Good Guys podcast. I mean, I don't know what they're waiting for. The official airline?
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
Wait, what were you doing? Were you working in Jackson Hole too? In Jacksonville, I had a... Oh, Jacksonville.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
Jacksonville is great. And what's great is one of Cat Williams Netflix specials. I don't know if he was a little light on material. And I only say this because I am one of the biggest Cat Williams fans on earth. He's hilarious. I think he was recently on Theo Vaughn and he introduced him as some people say he's the Black Oracle. He's spectacular. He is a once in a lifetime talent. I love him.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
Well, I don't want to be in a contest here, but we're also in my mother's assisted livings newsletter this week.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
But it was a Netflix special that he shot in Jacksonville. He did 25 minutes at the top of his special crowd work about Jacksonville. And I'm like, you know, everyone doesn't live in Jacksonville, right? He's like, he's like, how about Davy street? Yeah.
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yeah it's also just like there is whenever i would do a college gig and i've done quite a bit over the years i would always do recon with the students i'd be like give me like two inside jokes on campus about like and i could always like sort of lean on like where's the bar that you go drink what's annoying let me guess parking as far as i can tell there's not good parking in any university in the great country of america they they don't like that and they don't like the food
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Look Mom! We Made It!
And whenever I bring that up in front of the students and I figure out a way to hopefully make it funny, their faces melt. They're like, how the hell does Josh know about, you know, I don't know. Olivia's here. Bearcat Tuesdays. I don't know. Shout out.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
I know. Like, what would the inside joke be at the yeshiva? Like, can you believe the tefillin on floor 70?
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
Will you explain what a shiva call is for our three people who listen who aren't Jewish?
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
Prove it didn't happen. Barbara, our esteemed resident, her son is a bit of a sugar. And... He has a AM radio internet show with his other sugar friend, and they're both rotund.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
Ben calls me. He's like, I've gained five weight, five pounds. I think it's from the creatine.
Good Guys
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I was thinking about continuing our game from last week, Twofold, which is we were guessing calories for different wonderful things. Ooh, yes. Now, we did it for donuts, for the great Krispy Kreme, for the great Dunkin' Donuts. In fact, I have a good Krispy Kreme story for our stories this week. But first, I like to play a game for our calorie counting day.
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How many calories are in Chick-fil-A items? Olivia, as always, feel free to weigh in. We'll do five of the major Chick-fil-A offerings. First, their standard chicken sandwich. Chicken sandwich. Their fried chicken sandwich.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
An eight-piece nugget coming in at only 250 calories. What the fuck? A real steal. A real steal.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
But they're little nugs. They're not, like, massive. All right. Let's just say for variety, how about eight grilled nuggets? What do we think is the calorie count on the eight grilled nuggets?
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Look Mom! We Made It!
A snatched 130. That's a nice snack. It really is. Go and get an eight piece grilled nugget. Go 12 piece at 200 calories? Fantastic. 38 grams of protein?
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
I know I'm that guy. I am that guy. Just saying. I'm constantly playing roulette with my calories. What about a, we can end it here with a, I would have loved a dessert, but I know their ice cream cones probably coming in at sub 250. What about, let's go with a large fry, a large waffle fry. 425. It's coming in at six. Sorry, I missed you, Olivia, but it's 600 calories.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
Once in a generation. Thank God. Anyway, dude, can we do a best bite of the week real quick? Please. I have. I have one. Go. The other night I went to a restaurant in Beverly Hills called La Doce Vida.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
This place, this was an institution in Beverly Hills for many years. And then I think they kind of did like a refresh. I mean, this was out of control. I went with my West Coast Ben, Len. We went and let me tell you, I'm going to walk you through this because I had already done what all Jews do, which is I pre-planned. Okay, I did homework on the restaurant. I got my intel.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
Josh, Olivia, this segment brought to you by the country of Iran. This segment brought to you by the Iranian Tourism Board. Shout out. In Tehran, we do it a little different. Stories. I will tell you, and you're going to find this. I know you will because you're a beauty and you're just like me.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
You're going to have your beautiful son and he's going to be playing with an adorable little girl one day. And the parents of whomever, maybe not friends, just the parents will say, oh my God, they're so cute. You never know one day. And you'll be like, huh? And in the back of your mind, you go, never, ever going to happen. Never. Your little nose picker will never be with my son.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
Speaking of, as I mentioned, Krispy Kreme earlier, a baby born at Krispy Kreme gets sweet treatment from donut chain. It is an experience to remember a sweet life ahead. A couple's baby was born in a Krispy Kreme parking lot in Alabama during a winter storm. And the donut chain made the family in a glazing promise for the future. What? Oh, amazing. Fucking up your game. New York post.
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You're usually good. A glazing promise. A woman gave birth to her son in the Krispy Kreme parking lot. The couple couldn't make it to the hospital because of a winter storm that had as much as 11 inches of snow pummel parts of the state. And Krispy Kreme was closed because of the weather. But okay, can we get one of Krispy Kreme down?
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Look Mom! We Made It!
This is a terrible story. Continue. Krispy Kreme is sweetening the family's, here we go again, a glazing celebration by throwing Dallas a birthday party every year until he's all grown up. And that's going to include plenty of free delicious donuts. I mean, they hit the lottery, dude.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
I know. And what about like when he's six and he wants to have his birthday at Charles Entertainment Cheese? Are they going to say like, yeah, but we didn't give birth to you at a Charles Entertainment Cheese. We're going to the crispy.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
These people, they sit down, they peruse the menu for 30 minutes. It's not changing. You know, this is not SAT prep. Order, be ready. He's here, order. So first, beautiful bread basket arrives. The vibe on this place, I feel like I was in the Lucchese crime family, allegedly. Then they do a table side Caesar. You know we love table side. The best.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
Totally agree. I totally understand her outrage. Anyone who doesn't follow their taxes for five years and keeps it a secret and accrues $40,000 in debt. Your dad's a sick fuck. He's sick. It's okay. He's just, he's one of you nuts. And so try to have the same sympathy and grace that you would have for another sick person. And yeah, you can't not pay your taxes. You also, they'll get you.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
And then you can't be Q on that. Like when you owe the IRS, they will get their money forever. All that being said, I agree with Ben. And I also think I understand you wanting to be defensive of your ride or die, your mom who you love so much and it's a beautiful thing. She's a big girl and so are you. And I would do your best to keep that separate.
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So yes, you are entitled and 100% need to feel this. And no, and this is one of the great things I've learned in sobriety is we learn to live with unresolved issues. We sometimes never get the resolution we want and we don't get the amends we think we deserve, but we do the best we can because that's life on life's terms.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
So, you know, I could imagine a scenario where your dad never even like apologizes about it because unfortunately people have their weird justifications for things that they do. But I agree. I don't think you'll regret loving him in the end and you might regret sticking it to him till the end.
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They're making it rain freshly grated Parmesan on this thing beyond. Then we do some apps. We do a shrimp fra diavolo. Beautiful. And then, and these are really, these are proper shrimp. These are like, these are shrimp on those Barry Bonds drugs. You know, that good, good, right? All juiced up. These shrimp, they had to get a bigger hat when they were in their mid thirties, which is normal.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
I got it. Playing it for two reasons. This is an example of the way you don't want to go about a speak pipe. This is so long. So long. So unnecessary. Could have easily cut out 60 seconds of that.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
You stink at speak pipes, but thank you and we love you. And we would hate to lose you, but you're horrible at speak pipes.
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Look Mom! We Made It!
I completely agree with you. I think it's ridiculous, the idea of having two massive parties in a row. I think you can definitely make it special. But I think if the bat mitzvah is at the shul and the hall and the DJ and the stations and the thing you go for 16, we're going to do something amazing in the backyard, you know, totally.
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And we're going to spend, you know, a 10th of what we did on the bat mitzvah. Like maybe there's some world. And what were you going to say?
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You can try and stop me, but it won't work. What are the origins of Sweet 16? Oh, I just got transferred to the FBI. I'm googling something to do with 16-year-olds. The term Sweet Sixteen has multiple origins. The celebration may have originated with Queen Elizabeth I, whose reign marked the beginning of the Middle Ages.
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That's right. That's right. And then we order that. And then we order, and this is not, this is, I think, really ubiquitous on the East Coast, but you don't see it as much in LA. And shout out Winter Vegetables. We had an artichoke, but a stuffed artichoke. The best. Oh, in like a lemon butter type piccata. You think I'm done with piccata? I'm not done with piccata.
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It may also have originated as a way to introduce girls to social skills and hostessing.
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I would love. Oh my God. A posh, like a, you know, a couple decades late quince. You know, I don't want to, I don't want to stick my foot in my mouth 13 years in advance. Cause BH, BH, you're, you know, you guys have a fricking blowout bar mitzvah for, for the software to be named. And tell me what you think, Ben. I think a bar mitzvah is awesome.
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I think growing up during the 90s and the mid-aughts, of course, there were always the blowouts. There was always the rich families that went over the top. Then there were wonderfully modest ones. I just have experienced in the last 10 years, I feel like I'm seeing people drop a quarter of a million dollars on bar mitzvahs. It's insane to me. It's a little, what are you nuts? What do you think?
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OK, that's all. But is that reasonable? Like you would consider spending that much money?
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Then the mains, a limon bucatini in almost like a light cream lemon sauce. My favorite. That bucatini bullies spaghetti when no one's looking. That bucatini has negative talk to spaghetti and goes, you call yourself a noodle?
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That would be so hot. If I get like 55 year old Nickelback. She gives this like your son a beautiful Jewish name. So it's like, look at orange photograph. Every time you make me laugh. Happy Bar Mitzvah to you. Giving nachas to your parents too. Very good. Very good. God bless. I don't know.
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I have, I want to separate this and not be, because I think everything you said sounds great and is perfect and is how a lot of people think and I think I have my own.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
It's fine. You go to each their own. Yeah. I have my own nuts things that I feel like, first of all, and I think this is like a little bit of growing up with a mother who made things about, who made things about her, but it told me it was about me. Like I see a lot of, like for my bar mitzvah, I wanted my theme to be Star Wars. And she's like, ah, Broadway, baby. I was like, I'm embarrassed.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
And she's like, we're performing at your bar mitzvah. I said, we are embarrassed.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
Well, to say the least, but again, like to your point, right? Like I know you're joking, but like the meatloaf cover band and this, and like, you didn't say a thing about your kid. It was all about you. And I think parents do that. And I don't, I guess that's what I have qualms with.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
And what do you think about like, you know, cause this happens sometimes where like you and Claudia are so wonderfully like, you know, you just have incredible personalities and you're so like such people, people and outgoing. And, and maybe you have a kid who's a little, you know, more shy and like a little bit more introverted.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
And what if they say like, dad, I would love to do the entire bar mitzvah process and Hebrew school and whatnot. And I'd rather just like go to Israel or like do something like a trip, like not a party.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
No, and a great party is awesome. And what has been revealed to me with having, and you see this once you have more than one kid, is nurture is as real as nature. And because both of my kids are singularly my children and yet completely different. And it doesn't make sense. And yet it makes perfect sense.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
how they can be like so uniquely my wife and mine and have our parts of our looks and parts of our personality traits and things that we love and things that we don't love. And yet they are so uniquely themselves that was just done in the beautiful miracle of their... So cool. Yeah, it's fun. It's cool to see how it reveals itself. Okay, you want to do What Are You Nuts?
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
Google it. You don't want it. Totally agree. My what are you nuts is if you sign an email. A letter, a text with love and light. with health and healing, with healing love that is also light, that lights you up, babe. What are you, nuts? How about sincerely? How about best? Save it. Save your love. Save your light. Take your health. Take your healing and keep it to yourself, okay?
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
And then we had a Branzino Piccata, right? Yeah, delish. From the waters of the Mediterranean. Because otherwise, if it's not from the Mediterranean, as my friend Max Shapiro would say, just sea bass. Just sea bass. It's not Branzino. And then the marquee item, we had a Veal Parmesan.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
You just threw a weird wrench in this thing. It was fantastic. I swear. A curry mayo. But don't say that like you're talking about, you know, the days of the week. This is a curveball.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
Your Harvest Cheddar, man. So is my son. What's your favorite chip? Don't get me started. I like it all, and I like it all under the sun, but I think they live in different worlds. You cannot compare a Frito to any other chip. You can't compare a Dorito to any other chip. No? Am I tripping?
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
absolutely she took it as a challenge and all i gotta say folks is don't don't mess around with bad food this is not good you don't need it you don't need it okay don't do it well that's what i always hear because you know i'm on the prepper side of tiktok yes don't worry about it i just want to see people's shelters and this one guy who was a prepper who was showing his his nuclear fallout shelter under his house was like these best buy dates are a total suggestion
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
He's like, more than a year after you can go. I'm like, a year? I don't believe a couple weeks.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
Non-perishable Nutella. Nutella, I remember he was like, oh, please, this will be good for another year. I think I would agree with that.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
Okay, Dad. What do you think about almond milk? Geez. All right, we spoke about it. Hey, it's Josh and Ben, and we are here to tell you about the Galaxy S25 Ultra from Samsung.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
And it does just, you know, I simply just ask naturally. I make the requests. I like to say, please, you do what you want to do. And the new Galaxy S25 Ultra takes care of the rest. And then you have Galaxy AI. Heard of it? Well, that provides personalized daily briefings that keep you a step ahead. It shows your appointments, the weather, your energy score, and more all in one place.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
I know you like 4K because you're a little old school. How about 8K? How about 8K? You like that resolution? Well, what can I tell you? That's what we're working with with our Galaxy S25 Ultra.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
And it's got audio eraser with Galaxy AI to really isolate and reduce unwanted sounds, crowd noises, voices, which for me is super important, especially when I'm recording something that I'm going to throw up on the gram or wherever. I really want to make sure that that audio is crisp.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
Certain features compatible with select apps and require Google Gemini account results may vary based on input. Check responses for accuracy.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
Why are you so anti-neurologist? Neurology is cool, dude. It's one of the rare specialties that won't be replaced by AI. Because you're going to get me. I'm looking at you, radiologist. You're making me a hypochondriac.
Good Guys
Look Mom! We Made It!
No, hypochondriac is people get worried about fake shit. You should be getting worried about. You're making me think I have something real. You're a neglecter.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
That way, Josh, I'm not so stressed. I don't forget things. And you're not trying to ship me off to some loony bin. Okay. Now brief is saving me.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
It'll give you what you got going on tomorrow. Keeps you bettering yourself. Honestly, Josh. Where has this been all our lives? I love it.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
This episode of the Good Guys Podcast is brought to you by our friends at Element. Folks, Element helps anyone stay hydrated without the sugar and other dodgy ingredients found in popular electrolytes and sports drinks. Who wants dodgy ingredients and sugar? Not me. Electrolyte deficiency or imbalance can cause headaches, cramps, cramps, fatigue, brain fog, and weakness. Things we don't want.
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Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Folks, Elmin is a zero sugar electrolyte drink mix and sparkling electrolyte water born from the growing body of research revealing that optimal health outcomes occur at sodium levels two to three times government recommendations. What are the government nuts? They're crazy. Each stick pack delivers a meaningful dose of electrolytes. free of sugar, artificial colors, or other dodgy ingredients.
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Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Element is formulated for anyone on a mission to restore health through hydration and is perfectly suited for athletes, folks who are fasting, or those following keto season, low-carb, whole food, or paleo diets. Folks, Element is it. Tastes delicious. Great for you. We need to get those electrolytes up, up, okay? And it's not just me who's telling you this. It's U.S. Olympians.
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Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
It's professional athletes. It's special forces. It's healthcare experts. Everybody's on the Element train. Why aren't you? Right now, Element is offering a free sample pack with any purchase. That's eight single serving packets, free with any Element order. This is a great way to try all eight flavors or share Element with a friend. Get yours at drinkelement.com slash goodguys.
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Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
This deal is only available through my link. You must go to drinklmnt.com slash goodguys. D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T dot com slash goodguys.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
I think the only thing stronger is the Taylor Swift fans that are now angry because Blake called her the queen of the whatever it was, Dragon's Den. I think that once you have the Swifties all over you, then you are gone.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
This morning? When did this happen? This was like over the last month.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Apparently, they were like dear friends, and she described the relationship as just, Taylor is just like the dragon queen that they all kneel to. Not a direct quote. I don't know if this is true.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
And once you upset the Swifties, it's no good. It's over. It's no good. We don't do that. We love Taylor Swift, and we love all her fans.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
He married well and so did she. We're a family of podcasters. Tough job.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
I think they're so cool. I wish I was addicted. I just can't. I can't get addicted. I can't. I smoke them and I want more. I can't. I'm like a one, two cigarettes every six months.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
I want a pack a day. We'll hang out with the queen. I'm not that cool, queen.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Have you seen those Canadian cigarettes with the warning symbols where, like, there's, like, a... Oh, they have, like, the dead people.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
The dead people. Or the one that I loved was Josh when they, that... That cigarette carton that had a naked person on it and it said something to the effect in French of like smoking can cause you to get naked in the middle of the night. Like they have these weird slogans that don't make any sense.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Congratulations on the baby train. Thank you, Queen. Congratulations, baby. I'm naming him Queen. Queen Cosmo. Queen Cosmic. Josh, what I'm giving up is Ozempic. That's what I'm giving up for 40 days.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
And what did they put you on? It sounds like they put you on a dose too high.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Josh, we have to get Cosmo on Wagovi. Wagovi or Zepbound, we need to switch you. Because maybe Ozempic isn't right, but there are other meds that could work.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Put it right in your belly. Right in the belly. Don't put it anywhere else in the belly. So did you lose weight on the Ozempic? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I said I wouldn't say my weight. I will say. I was 290. I'm now 251. I was 239. Wow, bro.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
By the way, I love it. I ship it. Sorry, Paige. This episode of the Good Guys Podcast is brought to you by our friends at BioNature. Folks, we know you've been abroad. You've told us a million times. You went for six months. You found yourself. Yada, yada, yada. You came back. You were just as annoying as you were always, okay? You were just as annoying. You were no more cultured.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
But what you did notice was that everything that you were eating over there
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
felt significantly worse than what you were eating over here right let's say we're in italy all right maybe we're in venice we go we get some pizza we get some pasta we feel amazing over there we come over here we're eating pizza and pasta what are you nuts we feel like crap that's not good that's not good at all well folks what if we could get products exclusively from italy how about tomatoes only grown in italy how about sauces that are made from tomatoes only grown in italy
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Okay? Well, folks, that's BioNature. BioNature has made it their mission to produce premium, 100% organic foods, all grown in Italy, sold right here in the U.S. From premium Durham semolina pasta to whole wheat gluten-free and sourdough pasta. Yep, sourdough season. BioNature is committed to their passion for organic foods. and their personal connections to Italy in traditional Italian cooking.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
They also have some delicious brand new tomato sauces. You like a spicy arrabbiata, maybe a traditional marinara, maybe a fragrant basil. Yeah, that's right. A fragrant tomato basil. All of these made with tomatoes exclusively from Italy. They're all absolutely fantastic. So folks, if you want... some of this yourself. And who wouldn't?
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Visit Bionature.com and use code GOODGUYS at checkout for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-I-O-N-E-T-U-R-A-E.com and use code GOODGUYS for 20% off your first order. This episode of the Good Guys podcast is brought to you by our friends at Built Rewards. PSA for anyone who rents, if you haven't heard of Bilt, you're about to thank me.
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Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Earning points on rent is now a reality when you pay your rent through Bilt. You don't even have to check with your landlord to start earning points that you can use towards flights, hotel stays, fitness classes, and even your next rent payment. I'm telling you, we earn points everywhere else. We earn points on groceries, travel, and practically everything but rent, our number one expense.
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Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Points can also be redeemed towards a future rent payment and unique experiences that only built members can access. So if you're not earning points on rent, my question is, why not? Start earning points on rent you're already paying by going to joinbuilt.com slash goodguys. That's joinbuilt.com slash goodguys. J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash goodguys.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Joinbuilt.com slash goodguys to start earning points on your rent payments today. J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash goodguys.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
I'm mom adjacent. I actually, I went to school in the Heights. So a little bit higher than Spanish Harlem in Washington Heights. But I am familiar. I pop out, look to the left, going up the FDR. And I think, God, it's great that I'm passing this. Thank God I didn't have to take the streets.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Yes. Very long. Mom needs to stop listening, but I do want to know if the 2.9 is erect or soft.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
I was just going to say, Josh has heard me tell this story. I was once staying in a house for the weekend with a man that just had this surgery that you're talking about. And he was leaking by the pool the whole weekend. He would get up and there would be a puddle. No.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
This episode of the Good Guys Podcast is brought to you by our friends at Hero Bread. Folks, Hero Bread is it. It's the reason I've been able to lose weight. Sure, I've gotten the assist from some GLP ones, but I'm telling you Hero Bread is it. Hero Bread allows me to eat sandwiches.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
When was the last time you went on a diet or started thinking about making some lifestyle changes and were still able to eat sandwiches? The answer is never. Never, because bread typically in the United States is not good for us. Loaded with sugar, just empty calories, no good. And then when we try and find a healthier alternative, they taste like crap. They taste like crap.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
And that's exactly what Hero Bread solved. They solved the problem of needing to make compromises when it came to eating bread and leading a healthier lifestyle. Their breads, all of them, we're talking white bread, we're talking croissants, bagels, Hawaiian rolls, wraps, ultra low-net carbs, no sugar, high fiber. What more could you want? It's absolutely fantastic.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
And when I tell you, I swear to God, the taste and texture is that of regular bread. Their white bread is just white bread, except it's better for you. It's unbelievable. They've spent so much time crafting the perfect bread. You won't even know the difference. You have to try it. These breads are nutritious. Why wouldn't you? If you have two options, one's nutritious, one isn't.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Of course, you're going with the one that's nutritious. I know you don't believe me. Try it for yourself, and then you will. And I mentioned their product range, but I'm telling you, their classic plain bagels with four grams of net carbs, no sugar, and 19 grams of protein. How unbelievable is that? Protein-packed bread.
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Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
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Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
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Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
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Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
It sounds to me like they live in a cheap building with thin walls. So look, if you're not going to pay up, okay, to have thick walls, you're going to need to deal with some inconvenient noises. I completely agree that it's not illegal to own a dog the same way it wouldn't be illegal to have a crying baby.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
If you don't want to hear it, you need to live in a building that has thicker walls or put on a noise machine, Josh. How about you put on a noise machine? I personally don't think unless this dog, the way that she explained it, the dog is once an hour and the person is being dramatic.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
If this dog really is nonstop, you talk to your porter or you talk to the person in the building who runs the building and say, look, for B, the dog won't shut the fuck up. We have to do something. But otherwise, I don't I don't think there's anything to do. You picked a building with thin walls.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
think you deserve oh that's a queen of sober podcasts right there oh my god ladies i'm i'm with you but i also but i also think like if she's that type of personality where she's anxious like he should know that and he should give her some reassurance if he's marrying a nervous nelly you know I don't know. Just fucking do it. Rip off the Band-Aid. What are you waiting for?
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
To the same point, Josh, it's never going to be perfect on his side. So he might as well just pop the question at In-N-Out after a burger. She just wants to get married. She doesn't want anything. You can't want something special and just want it to happen. So if she just wants it to happen, he should just do it. It's her loss on the big celebration. You know?
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
I knew I wanted to do it. What I was going to say was, honestly, it's on your mother to go to him and say fucking propose to my daughter next week or there's going to be hell to pay. It's on somebody else to pressure him, not you.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Yeah, jaywalking with an infant. What are you, nuts? I literally made a right. I drive everywhere in the city, as everybody knows. I'm going to make a right. All of a sudden, out of the corner of my eye, I see a dad with literally an infant strapped to his chest, crossing against the light. Are you brain dead? Like, I just, you can risk your own life risking the baby.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Like, it's just the definition of what are you, nuts? Nuts.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
It's like tasters at an ice cream store, Josh. Tasters at an ice cream store, two tops. And if you walk out, if you try three, you can't walk out. You can't. You're locked in for a scoop. 100%.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Locked in for a scoop. Cosmo, the Queen of Melrose, this was a pleasure.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
You are amazing. We can find Queen of Melrose cross-platform everywhere. We're global, especially TikTok shop. Okay? Listen to us, good guys, wherever you get your podcasts. Watch us on YouTube. Share our clips, Instagram, and TikTok. We're on TikTok too, Cosmo. Just so you know. Mondays and Thursdays, folks, we will see you next time.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
I knew the Palm was gone the second I saw it at Newark Airport. That's when I knew the Palm is done. If he can get a stake in the airport, that means that the brand is dead. It's over.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Very similar. But my grandma did live in Queens. I was going to say, where in Queens? Astoria. Okay. I mean, Astoria is fantastic food. Fantastic food.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
But there was a lovely Key Foods. I loved the Key Foods.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Yeah, Key Foods is great. There was a great diner in Forest Hills. I don't remember the name. The Clock? Something TikTok?
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Supreme Tuna. Supreme Tuna. They have the best food in New York.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
What you guys can't see is Josh is adjusting Queen's headphones and they are looking fantastic. Blame the hairdresser.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
The Queen of Melrose. I can't quite explain to you how excited we are to have you. When I told our dear friend, do you know the points guy, Brian Kelly? No. If you don't know him, he wants to know you. Where is he? He is your biggest fan. Boyfriend material.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
She's had unbelievable longevity, that Halle Berry. I was talking about it with Claudia. I'm like, what the fuck has she been? I haven't seen her in anything in 20 years. And she's still, like, she gets on that carpet and she is the moment on that carpet. Yeah, I would be pissed if I was the girlfriend.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
If I made out with Halle Berry, she would throw me off a roof if I made out with Halle Berry. I think I would have a better time if I made out with Adrian Brody.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Is he going to come out? We should have. We should have, Josh. Damn it. We'll set up an intro later. Yeah, we'll set up an intro later. It's great. He's two young boys. He's single. He's in New York. I'm going to set you up. Oh, he's single and ready to mingle.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
How much, how amazing is Israel? Like your trips, like it's just the most gorgeous country. Oh my God.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
Josh, you know I'm a little bit of a disorganized person, okay? I just want you to see a neurologist. That's it. That's all I've asked of you. I have too much going on. There's nothing wrong with my brain. The problem is there's too much going into it from too many different places, okay? Too much going on. And I needed a solution, Josh, so that when I woke up in the morning, I wasn't in a frenzy.
Good Guys
Mob Adjacent with The Queen of Melrose
What am I going to do today? Who am I going to speak to today? I needed something all in one place, and that, Josh, is NowBrief. The NowBrief on the Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra. Is everything and more that I needed. It's going to tell me what calls I have today. It's going to tell me what meetings I have today. It's going to tell me the weather. Okay. Everything in the morning.
Good Guys
Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
The following podcast is a Dear Media production.
Good Guys
Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
But the first time I was like properly kissed, I remember I was 16 and I was in North Hollywood at a party and playing spin the bottle with other kids that I went to acting class with. And so it was like Evan Rachel Wood was there and like Penn Badgley and Evan Peters and like all these people that have gone on to be incredibly successful and talented.
Good Guys
Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
But I remember that the bottle landed on Evan Rachel Wood and I, and I was about to say Evan and I, and then I'm like Evan Peters And I know you wish I know. And she just looked at me and gave me just like a proper, wonderful kiss. And I remember being like, thank you, Evan. Like, you didn't have to do that. I really appreciated it because it's 16. I needed some connection.
Good Guys
Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Those were the days, Josh. Whoa. How do you feel? with your beautiful child, you know, Baruch Hashem, coming into the world, I have a bit of an aversion about... I see it with older, like, grandparent types, but also people my age. I don't do that thing of, oh, like, Max, do you have a little girlfriend? Like, oh, this is his girlfriend, Charlie, or whatever. I just don't like to put that on kids.
Good Guys
Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
I think it's a little weird, and I know it's like 99% of the time, like, it's just like a cutesy, silly thing about... But I don't know. I like try not to do that with kids. What do you guys think?
Good Guys
Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
I cannot get over it. What's more scary is I know that you're only 75% kidding and it ruffles my feathers good and hard.
Good Guys
Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Ew. Olivia, you should feel free to quit. I would quit. I'm going to fire myself.
Good Guys
Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
But the problem is, is like, you think that, and then I don't, you know, when you have your kid, when you have your own kid, it'll shift and more will be revealed. Like, I think-
Good Guys
Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
while Paige and I hopefully hold a lot of the same, I would imagine, same values that you and Claudia have, we're very different than maybe a lot of the couples just who are more Northeast, typical New York Jewish couples. Like, cause we haven't, we've had a different thing. Yeah.
Good Guys
Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
And you might have your kids and suddenly go like, oh, what Josh and Paige have with their families actually presented itself to be kind of more attractive than the thing that I was used to or grew up with. Or you might be like, no, I clearly would never want that. I love what me and my friends have. Like, that's the interesting thing is watching your friends, how they raise their kids and
Good Guys
Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's a blended thing. Like I have like the great kid, David, who was on the podcast. He's a single guy. So he I have single friends who have said, you are now your own entity with your own family. And I'm not going to make an extra effort to be in that new sort of equation. And I go, great. I will be making no effort to make your single life more comfortable.
Good Guys
Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Like Len's beautiful Russian immigrant mother would be cooking us Red Baron pizza just so that her kid could sit on the couch watching an LA Kings game, scratching his nether regions and going, I like the vinegar.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
All good, love you. And then David has said, I want to be in your kid's life. And so our friendship has leveled up because my children love him and I love him. And I also make it a point because I'm very mobile with my kids and my family. Like we will come visit you.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
And then especially like if I lived in the city and you have your kid, I have my kiddo, you know, I think you have to be able to be like on a Sunday morning, like Ben, we're going to the park. You want to come or not? Like we don't have to plan it, but like if you're free and doing nothing, let's go to the park and we'll get a bagel because look, we both got to get these kids energy out, you know?
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Yeah, I think like being able to enjoy the park is probably like one, one and a half. But also there is something great of like, I got this blob here who's six months. Yeah. You got a blob. Let's just like sit and distract each other with these blobs for a couple of hours. I can't stare at this thing any longer.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
That should be our daddy daycare. Blobs. Blobs. Blobs. Like heavyweights.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Yeah, yeah, so good. No, the screenplay is by Judd Apatow and it was directed by Steve Brill, who I worked with, who directed a movie called Drillbit Taylor, who I know. And Steve Brill, funny enough, created the Mighty Ducks franchise and became absurdly rich from it.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
And I will never forget, he did not appreciate my obsession with Mighty Ducks and he would give me notes during scenes and I'd be like, do you want me to do this the way Charlie Conway did it when he was doing the Triple Deak at the Goodwill Games? And he was like, you're fired.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
No, I don't. He loves Rookie of the Year. So good. He likes Sandlot. I mean, he's sick, so he can't really appreciate it yet, but he likes, yeah, for sure. He definitely is slowly getting into those. I feel like you could have been in Mighty Ducks, no? I was too young and too fat. No, they already had a Goldberg. I was too young.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Were you ever like, I remember once, I have one regret about actually growing up, me and Len, we had a younger buddy, Daniel, and we would be like 11, 12, 13 years old. He was a year younger than us. And we would just like, I just remember one time playing a prank on Daniel where he woke up at the sleepover and Len was over his face with his ass in his face.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think of, I think everything became algorithm based. And so everything became an attempt at reverse engineering what once worked before.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
And then you also like, and then people like take that, you know, I look, I love and I'm proud of the show I did, Turner and Hooch, and that was IP from the 80s. And I think what was hard was the original movie, like Tom Hanks in that movie is a total dick. Like his character is a jerk and he's like a real dick to the dog. And he's like pretty curmudgeonly.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
And it's like, there's like murders and shooting. Like he's a proper detective and like the stakes are high. Yeah. You know, cut to 25 years later, you have to make a show for Disney Plus that is like honoring those elements, but really can have none of them because like, God forbid, anyone offends anyone about anything. And it loses that edge, I think.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
And Daniel was like, I'm not sleeping over anymore. And I was like, I don't blame you, Dan. That stinks.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
I know, but that music from Cocomelon is hot.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Where are you? Here I am. Here I am. How do you do?
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Yeah. With exception to Sing. Sing's bomb. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, we mess with Sing in our home. We like the things, you know, like it's amazing and no shade and whatnot. But like the first Moana, the songs are so good because it's Lin-Manuel Miranda. And the second Moana, they're like, we got someone new. They're great, too. And it's like, I don't know any of those songs, guys.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
So good. Speaking of hockey, so I got to tell you about this thing. I did this charity hockey event for the LA Kings on Sunday. Okay. to honor LA Strong, honor the first responders, to raise money for the California Fire Fund and all these different entities and shout out the LA Kings, an amazing fundraiser.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
And so it was really an interesting process because about a month ago, we have a lot of friends who are ex-Kings, a buddy of mine, Matt, who played for them and now works in the organization. So he texts me and he goes, hey, we're going to do a charity event, charity game. You want to play? Like in a month.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
oh i go i'm in matt he goes beautiful i'll have someone reach out i think between then and two days later they somehow got justin bieber and steve carell to do it too and they forgot about good old joshy suddenly i'm not getting emails So I'm like, it's okay. They're busy. This is more principles before personalities. This is more important. So they hit me up like two days before.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
They're like, you ready to play on Sunday? I was like, what are you nuts? They're like, yeah, here's the info. Bring your gear. I'm like, first of all, it's hilarious that you think that an actor has full hockey pads. Bring your gear.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
bring your gear I've played in celebrity basketball games as we've talked with Nick Swartzen about I know how deeply demoralizing and embarrassing it is to be out in front of an audience really just sucking and I'm actually okay at playing hockey but as I said I've never been great at skating because at 14 when I should have been skating my mom said you're too fat for skates and
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
And the velocity which your body will hit the ground would mean compound fractures. And I can't have that. You know, we don't have great insurance. So I never got great at skating. So I wind up saying, listen, I'm not going to skate. I'm not going to be part of the game. And they're like, OK, we'll just come, we guess. So I did come and it was a really nice event.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
And there's Vince Vaughn and Colby Smulders and great ex-hockey players, Marc Messier, Teddy Purcell. Wow. Matt Green, Dion Neff, like all these amazing players. And then we get to like the biggies, the big celebs. Will Ferrell. Okay. Wow. Snoop Doggy Dogg, the two announcers. Wow.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
No, he didn't skate. He's a big Kings fan. So it wasn't a surprise he was there. Okay.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
So now I'm like, and I'm walking around, I'm like, I'll be the equipment manager, whatever. It's fun. So they're like, okay, you'll be the equipment manager because we already have coaches for the red team. So like, let's get them all lined up and we're going to introduce you guys. You're going to go out on the ice.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
so last minute they're all skating out right and then they're like and right as the last person goes out of the tunnel to skate out they go an equipment manager and i didn't go out i literally went like this nope I was so embarrassed to go out as the equipment manager that I said, I'm not going out. Equipment manager. Oh my God. That is so classic too. It's so me, man. You should have played.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
So I should have been, I think I would have been okay, but it is what it is. And then I was chatting with some of the players as they were lined up to go out. And then I see the great Josh Richards and, And we chatted up a little, dab it up. Wonderful. You know, one great Canadian, Josh Richards. And then they go out and I turn and I hear someone go, hey, Josh. And I turn around and who is it?
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
And he was, he was going to play. He goes, Hey Josh, good to see you, man. And I was like, JB, how are you? I didn't call him that. I was like, Hey Justin, good to see you. And we're chatting real quick. And I had heard, cause I told you, I got some friends at the Kings.
Good Guys
Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
They were like, Oh, they're like Bieber actually asked to, if he could like have some ice time before the game to like practice a little bit. And I was like, damn, like that's how, you know, someone's great when even a charity game, they're like, I'm taking this seriously. I need to warm up. Yeah, it's no joke. I love that. Ooh, so you had a star-studded afternoon.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
I said to him, I'm like, I heard you asked for a little bit of extra ice time. And he was like, yeah, I had to knock the cobwebs off. And I was like, so humble. We love a humble king.
Good Guys
Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
It's amazing to see someone like that who's like internationally superstar famous. It was funny. There was a girl who was like in her probably late 20s who was the one who would like direct people to go out. Like she was the one who would give someone their cue to like, okay, now go out to the ice. And she was very professional and good at what she did. And she'd be like, go, go, go.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
And the last person who gets announced obviously is Bieber. So she goes, go. And then I see her turn to some of her other friends and go. Like holding her heart like, oh, God.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
I couldn't agree more. And I know because we have to give that caveat of like, obviously, it's an exceptional life and how cool that he gets to live and experience all this stuff. But I don't think it's easy being him. And I think that's a lot, a lot, a lot of pressure that kind of never lets up.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Yeah. No, you have to be. What is Olivia? What does Justin Bieber mean to you? First is our resident young person and also as a musician yourself and just as a good person.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
And we're not judgmental. We need to adopt that. I'm not gay. I'm just a 38 year old at camp with my bros.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Do you think if he showed up at a Chili's and it's busy, everyone's ordering Nashville mozzarella sticks, they're just inundated. Is there a Chili's on this earth that makes Justin Bieber wait? Saturday night, 8 o'clock.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Kill me. Yes, story. Let me make it Jewish. I think it's a black and white cookie.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Well, did you know that doctors are charging six grand per eye to change eye color forever? This is scarier than any horror film. This risky trend is irresistible. An ophthalmologist with 344 million followers on TikTok has gone viral due to his specialization in changing people's eye color permanently.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
I'm just, and feel free to turn the podcast off, listeners, but I'm going to need some more details. Now we need the logistics.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Dr. Brian Wachler has revealed the results of his work on social media showing before and after results. Yeah. Really? That's really dangerous, Josh. Intense. I mean, it's pretty wild. It's no joke. It's people are going from like very dark eyes to like baby blue light eyes.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Roll the dice. Live a little. I went and took my friend Joe for his with Dr. Paul C. Lee in Koreatown. And it was cool. You get Valium. That's worth it alone.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
I'll have any elective procedure for Valium. I should see if Joey Kamasta has a guy that can do LASIK for me. For sure. It's somewhere in central Jersey.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Well, did you know that Luigi Mangione has been asking Twisted fans to stop bombarding him with so many photos? Luigi Mangione is asking his Twisted fans to stop bombarding him. The accused UnitedHealthcare CEO unaliver made clear that his legal defense fund, sorry, made clear on his legal defense fund website that he cannot keep up with the fan photos flooding into his Brooklyn federal jail.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Luigi is allowed to receive photos via Shutterfly and FreePrints in accordance with mail procedures while in custody.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
They're like, Luigi Mangione's favorite snack from the canteen is Snickers. You wouldn't like me when I'm hungry.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
The finger just goes off the red button. That's what Hamas needed, Snickers. Oh, man. Well, and last thing about Luigi Mangione, there has to be so many bad fathers on this earth that there are this many women sending Luigi photos.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
How many fucking bad fathers are there? A lot. A lot, Josh. A lot.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
A lot of them. Gwyneth Paltrow is selling a $200 sex pillow. Doctors weigh in on whether it's worth it. If you're looking to spice up your love life, Goop has a suggestion, but it'll set you back $195. Gwyneth Paltrow's pillow, The Prim, claims that the taboo sex pillow will make your intimate moments more comfortable and satisfying. But do you really need to shell out big bucks for better sex?
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
The post spoke to three experts to get the rundown on the pillows that Goop is recommending. So I guess it's just a pillow maintained to hold on to its shape to lift you in certain ways for canoodling.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Yeah, it's something for lumbar, some sort of thoracic spine support.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
This one, Dr. Deborah Lino said, a ramp-shaped pillow can have a bit of a wedge lift. I'm turned on.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
I don't know, but if you have like a truck fantasy, like open up the hatch doors. Get the ramp. I got a pallet for you, baby. Get the ramp. So I'm shifted in transit. yuck yuck yucky oh boy should we get to uh one speak pipe and then what are you nuts yeah all right this one is from oh here this will be this will be a fun one lauren
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Benjamin, how the hell are you? And how is that beautiful blue zip up of yours? Do you like it? It's nice, right? It's handsome. I find you have been wearing versions of that more recently.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Love him. Should we get to our Woody and Nuts? Yes. Our Woody and Nuts moment of the week are our gripes with people, places, and things. All the things that are ticking us off, sticking in our craw. Ben, go for it.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
And then one kid, and then one kid eats it. That's gotta be fake. Cause we've all heard about that growing up, but no one actually did that.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
My what are you nuts is at funerals and memorials, stop releasing balloons. What are you nuts? First of all, it's pollution. Okay. These things, it doesn't go well. They land in the ocean. And secondly, I know you want to write, oh, grandma, you know, grandma Diane loved golf. So I'm going to draw a three iron on her balloon. No one cares. Diane's gone. No one can see it.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
You're hurting the sea animals. What are you nuts?
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Thinking of that, you're like, look, there's a lot of folklore. Narnia, Lord of the Rings, ooky cookie. Speaking of that. Speaking of Ookie Cookie. Oh my God. Let me ask you, wait, I was going to ask you something about camp and, oh darn, I lost it. It's just such a gross visual. I couldn't get past it. Ookie Cookie, yeah, it's rough. Ookie Cookie's rough.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Who knows? sure we had 14 len and i had 14 shots of mandarin vodka when we were 14 years old and that he stole from his russian parents 14 each yeah it was bad wow yeah that'll hurt the that'll hurt the tummy we cleared the bottle and that was the first time we drank and it was yeah it was intense and then we we threw up in my trash can and I don't think I drank again.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
I would, you know, it's funny. I was talking about this the other night, but I would go back to New York over summers from like 14 to 17 for a month. And we would like smoke a blunt on my buddy's roof in Chinatown, or we would like drink a 40 amongst like the three of us. But we never really like, it didn't click in. Like it was unremarkable. I don't remember it.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
I also don't remember thinking it was great. And then of course at 17, I think as I had lost all this weight and I was looking for something else as a crutch, Then when I was smoking pot and whatnot, it was suddenly like, oh, I like this. This is a relief. This gets me out of my head.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
It's funny you ask, and I don't mind sharing. I don't know if you're familiar with the Galaxy S25 Ultra from Samsung. But they have portrait selfie, which is like, listen, I don't care. I'm you know, I actually do care. I care about having a good selfie. And the truth of the matter is every sort of camera I've had before this, it just skin tones would start to look a little weird.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Textures weren't preserved. It just wasn't right. But I just find that you can capture you look the way you think you look. You know, when a camera takes a picture of you and you go, I don't look like that.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
What I like with the portrait selfie is that it's, you know, it's this dedicated thing that knows that selfies are their own thing and that it needs to be sort of curated for exactly that. So it preserves all the beautiful kind of things that you need for a good photo like that. I'm a big fan. I think my kids and I looked gorgeous on the slopes. You know, I don't want to brag, but we did brag.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
All right. Listen, I want to share with you. Can I not share with you? You can share. Look, I know I can share with you, and I just want every shot to have that nice professional look. So shout out portrait selfie. Now, let me ask you, Ben, when you posted that beautiful selfie at the wedding you were recently at, now, be honest with me. Did you use the best face feature?
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
And you know what? How many times you're taking a photo and you're annoying your friends, you're going, hey, look at this. It becomes this think tank when... Samsung goes, you know what? Give your friends a break. We have a feature now that can help you find the best one. No problem. Best face. You're welcome.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Best face. I said best face. Which one's the best? And they said, none. You're ugly. No, I'm kidding. You can get your Galaxy S25 Ultra at Samsung.com.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
The great Yanis Papas, one half of the History Hyenas podcast with Chris DiStefano, does say that people who are mentally challenged are finger snippers.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
That's crap. Because that's the kind of thing that if you tell your parents that happened with your friend who was a little bit of a bigger person, broke through it, your parents go, don't worry. We'll figure it out. They don't go, bring me a check from your friend.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Can I tell you a disgusting thing that my other best friend, not Ben, but Len, used to do growing up?
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
It's cheaper to buy a new one. I was going to say, can you even fix a wooden table? What are you going to find the one woodworker left in the Northeast? You have to go to the fucking Amish.
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
Is it, Olivia, and feel free not to answer, but do you remember when Spin the Bottle and those kind of games became a thing?
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Celebrity Spin-the-Bottle and Bieber on Ice?!
It's so, I've told this story before and I think she commented on it, like on Twitter or something, but I like played spin the bottle in sixth grade. I performed in arts high school. It was crazy. And then in between rehearsals for Annie and then, uh,
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235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
I didn't know that something like that could be in anybody I've ever known much less me. And he continued to deny having any recollection of events from that night. Scott's trial began in May 1999 and his lawyer, Michael Kimmerer, argued that Scott had lived an almost quote-unquote perfect life with a happy loving family and had absolutely no motive for the murder.
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235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
This episode is brought to you by our friends over at Live Good. These days, we all take supplements, or at least we know we should be, right? But why are so many supplement companies charging ridiculous prices for products that really aren't that special? is frustrating and frankly unacceptable.
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Dude, I agree. Sleepwalking, for one, is just an interesting thing. Why? by itself yes and it's something for thousands of years we've all been trying to figure out like what's going on here yeah what is this about but then to add in the element of sleepwalkers that end up murdering people it's a whole other yeah can of worms and then trying to convince a jury that that is even possible
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235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
Austin and I got sent some products from them that we've been using for over a month now, and
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235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
honestly i'm pretty impressed yeah i think the ingredients are are top notch um they're very transparent about where they come from and they're high quality because there's a lot of supplement companies out there that you know jazz you up other ways right through their branding or you know sell you the sun moon and stars but ultimately the ingredients are no good are they're very low quality what have you been taking
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235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
super reds same actually i got the same thing yeah super reds is is really good stuff i mean as we are aging yeah you know we need all the blood flow we can get to certain areas to certain areas my feet my hands yeah you know i uh i've been throwing it because i also do the collagen peptides and i just throw all the powder in my smoothies that i make every day so
Lights Out
235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
That's a great way to take supplements. Just make yourself a smoothie. You got breakfast taken care of and then you got all your supplements in there as well. Yeah, the Super Reds is really good stuff. It's great for circulation, you know, sexual health, cognitive function. Lord knows I need that. Need some help up here. Yeah.
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235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
But they've got a wide range of different stuff from nootropics to creatine to just multivitamin gummies. They even have some more obscure stuff. Himalayan shiljit and organic sea moss, which I know there's a lot of benefits to that. Supports nervous system and brain function, hormone balance, thyroid support, boosts sexual health and fertility.
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235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
chlorophyll drops, even basically anything supplement wise.
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235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
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235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
Why would their child lie too? Right. He's 12. Most of the times it's the opposite. They're spilling the beans like, oh, actually, nobody else outside the house saw it, but at home they went at it. Right. And there's none of that here.
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235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
That this person did not know what they were doing because they were still asleep when they brutally murdered, usually their loved one too. A partner, a child. I mean, it is, it's such a bizarre thing. that it's really hard to wrap your head around. They still don't fully understand what's going on, why it happens. There's a lot of theories.
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235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
Yeah, and we have no idea if he recognized her or even knew who it was. Yeah. Or what, while he's, you know, in dreaming essentially, what he thought was approaching him. So, and how do you even figure that out? There's no way to figure that out. Or he did recognize her and he's like, this is just a dream. Right. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Well, the prosecutor wasn't having any of it at all.
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235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
He was just like... This is just nonsense. To his point, he pointed out that Scott had deliberately tried to hide the evidence of the crime. The investigation had found items in Scott's car, clothing, the knife, the murder weapon, and all the items that would indicate that he committed a crime. He had also washed the blood off of himself, treated a wound on his finger, and changed his clothes.
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235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
So some have also proposed a theory that Scott was sleepwalking when he stabbed his wife, but then woke up and realized what he'd done, and in a panic, he might have finished the murder by holding Yarmula underwater and then cleaned up everything.
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235: The Most Shocking Sleepwalking Murders
Why would you do that? You know that that's going to make it look bad for yourself. I don't buy that theory either, but I can see why they're trying this different angle.
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On cross-examination, sleep expert Dr. Roger Broughton, who worked at the Sleep Disorder Center in Ottawa and founded the Canadian Sleep Society in 1986, acknowledged, it was unusual for a sleepwalker to carry out so many actions during a single episode. Because I think most of us are like, there is a lot of steps to this.
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And he really did all this while still asleep.
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What a lot of people point out, when his wife is screaming, it didn't wake him up. Yeah. At what point did he actually wake up or did he not at all? I mean, that's a tough part to prove, right? Prosecutor Juan Martinez's main argument was that Scott's actions were too deliberate for him to have been sleeping.
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And jurors soon became overwhelmed at the number of sleep experts that were brought in to testify. One of the prominent experts, as we mentioned, Dr. Broughton, admitted that to do as many specific and complicated actions as Scott had was unusual. including committing a violent crime, hiding the evidence, and changing his clothes.
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There's obviously some science behind the sleep cycles and what's going on there. But how does one who has potentially been sleepwalking for a long time all of a sudden during an episode of sleepwalking just snap and then murder somebody? Right. And why?
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Because it seems to insinuate that at some point he realized what he had done was wrong. But could have that still been in that sleepwalking state?
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It feels far-fetched, right? Very, very far-fetched. But if he was awake and he was trying to you know, cover up the crime or hide evidence, you would have thought he would have wiped the blood off, make sure to get all the blood off of him. But he didn't remember he's in interrogation. He's still got blood on the back of his neck.
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Which I guess some would argue it all happened so fast that maybe you just missed. But yeah, this one's really, I mean, there's so many different ways to look at it.
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Dr. Brown along with Dr. Rosalind Cartwright concluded that it was entirely possible Scott committed the murder while sleepwalking. So they're bringing all these experts in, and they're all making the argument that it is very possible all of these events happened while he was still asleep.
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Yeah, which there is no way to fully prove this at all. Yeah, how could you? Unless he was hooked up to monitors the entire time they were monitoring his brainwaves. Yeah. So they're going off of past, I assume, past experience with other sleepwalkers.
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This is a big blade too. This isn't just like a little pocket knife. Like normally if I'm doing stuff, I'm not using a hunting blade. True. Yeah. That's for skinning an animal. True. True. Cause that'd just be dangerous to some, but maybe it's something that he did on a normal basis, but it is strange. And I don't, I don't fault the jury.
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In this case, because I think there's enough doubt there that,
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But it, it is a bit surprising that he got a unanimous decision to find him guilty in this. Cause I don't know that there's enough there too, to I don't know if it would convince me. Again, I wasn't there and maybe there's more evidence and stuff that they saw that might convince me otherwise. But it seems tough because it's like, then what was the motive?
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The motive that the prosecutor presents, feasible, I guess. I mean, people murder people for far less. But considering all the circumstances, the timing, where it was, the fact that the neighbors were right there. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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What's even more interesting, too, is that Scott's two children pleaded for their father's life since he was potentially up for the death penalty. And I think largely in part because of this, the judge decided against capital punishment. Yeah. And he was sentenced to life in prison, which I think... Yeah.
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See, at the very least, because there's so much like gray area here where it's like, because what if he really was right.
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It's kind of in the same wheelhouse as the devil made me do it. Yeah, it's like how do you... Although I think this has far more science probably.
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Yeah, it is. That's terrifying. Makes you, uh, Yeah. If you're, uh, dating or, you know, you meet somebody new, maybe ask them if they're a sleepwalker. Yeah. Cause you know, do you have a history of sleepwalking? Should be added to the dating questions. Yeah. Cause I mean, unload my gun and store it. Well, and that's the other interesting thing too, is the access to weapons.
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Which is a big factor in these, you know, makes this, this rate go up much higher of something violent happening. Yeah. Um, but yeah, no, it's so torn. I know me too. Uh, and you just don't feel like, like based on what, again, there could be something they didn't uncover conversations that were had that they weren't able to find, dig up any info on that would give us more of a motive here.
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I just feel like it just seems all very random and just kind of out of nowhere.
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Yeah, this topic is, it's very interesting because I personally, as far as I know, I've never sleepwalked. Are you a sleepwalker?
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Well, if he was going to hide him, wouldn't you hide him somewhere better? Right. That's what I thought. Throw him in a dumpster or take him down the block or something.
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That's the thing, too, is that as sketchy as it seems those events were, if he really was going to try to cover this up, or spin it a certain way, you would have thought not only would he have done different things with the murder weapon and the clothing, but also what he would have said to investigators.
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He might have said a bit more that would have rather than be like, I don't know what happened. You know what I mean? Which again, criminals do all the time. They're like, I don't know, just play dumb. But sure. If you were truly going to try to spin this in a way of, I feel like he would have said some different things, but I don't know. Yeah. Um,
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but I keep thinking I'm like the screaming part of it is, is really what trips me up. But I'm like, well, if you're in a deep enough sleep to sleepwalk in the first place, there might be a good chance that you're not going to respond to that sort of sound. Cause like, what if you're,
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yeah if you sleep people sleepwalk and drive their cars and you know if you leave your car radio on and you get in the car and there's radio playing if it's just something if it's a loud noise like i feel like just even the engine turning the engine me up yeah there's plenty slamming the front door behind right you would have you would think that any one of those sounds might wake you up but if you're that not deep of a sleep
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I feel like all of us personally could probably name instances where we slept super, super deep and then maybe our, our, our partner didn't. Yeah. Like, like Kendall says to me all the time, I'm surprised you didn't hear me wake up. Cause she went in the bathroom, the toilet's not far from her bed and she was puking.
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And she's, she, she does this, um, she gets sick sometimes. And so she's always asked me the next day, she's like, did you hear me get up? I'm like, No, not a thing. No, I was out the entire, I didn't even know that happened. And given, I have a fan going and like other noise, we have like a noise machine, but still like getting up, um, and flushing the toilet and stuff like that.
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People sleep right through it. Yep. So I think, I think it's possible.
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It's possible that this could have happened the way that, uh, the defense said it was, but I see why the other side ended where they did.
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Yeah, Kendall's been on Nutrafol for years. I remember you saying that. So I've watched it work firsthand for a long, long time, and it's amazing, amazing the results. I mean, she swears by it and has been taking it, you know, religiously for a long time. And she's definitely seen improved hair growth and decreased shedding, so...
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scott is currently incarcerated at yuma prison he practices meditation he gets plenty of sleep and he's got letters from other sleepwalkers and he said he encourages anyone with a sleep disorder to get treatment which is great i'm glad he's advocating for that yeah you never know like you should probably get it checked out and there are treatments for uh people of sleep disorders so
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He also claims he still cannot recall the events of that night, but he said, quote, there's no one else I can place a responsibility on. It's on my shoulders and I accept that and I have to move on. He hopes to reunite with his wife in heaven saying, quote, she knows more than I do about what happened that night and she will actually know how I've conducted myself since then.
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I want to be sure that I'm still worthy of her by how I carry myself now. He's also expressed how he will never forgive himself, which
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I don't know either. That'd be very, very difficult. But we actually found a short clip from a 2020 interview he did. We'll play that for you now.
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And what he said, just, I think we can all be like, it's heartbreaking. Yeah. I think he's innocent. Yeah. That seems, that seemed very genuine. Yeah.
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Well, I think the violent nature of this too plays into it. Definitely. 44 times.
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I mean, a jury is seeing this or hearing this, and obviously they have the prosecutor that's going for the death penalty in this case and panning him out a totally different way. So how split you would be. And it'd be really interesting to talk to somebody on that jury. Seriously, yeah.
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And get their thought process behind it because it must have been very difficult to... Because at the same time, you want to do right by the victim. You want to do right by...
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Yeah. It's, it's really wild. My brother was a sleepwalker. Um, I don't, I don't know that he is anymore, but definitely when he was a child. he would get out of his bed. He almost would leave the house at times. So much so that my parents started putting a chair in front of the door because he, he knew how to get up. He knew how to get to the door, unlock it in his sleep.
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yarmula and yarmula sorry yeah i am it must have been really difficult because from the jury's perspective you want to do right by yarmula and and uh you know get justice if if you believe that this was a murder this was a cold calculated murder or whether or not it was some a random act of violence i mean she would died brutally and as you just heard from him he's like
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the terror she must have felt so i see it from that perspective too uh because yeah there's just there's almost more evidence backing up that this was a murder than there is that this was sleepwalking i think you have to really evaluate that in your mind you're like could be this. These experts are saying it's possible, but I don't have anything else to go off of other than it's possible.
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Versus on the other side, there's a knife. There's, you know, the wiping off the clothes and the fact that yelled her head under the water, which is all very bizarre and strange, like to go the extra step. And just, if you have a sleep expert saying, It's possible, but yet it's rare to do all of these events in succession. I don't know. Is that enough for reasonable doubt though? Right, right.
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Is it enough? And then to throw a wrench in it, you have their children that are supporting their father throughout his trial and sentencing. And to this day. Yep, yep. Scott has also said that he has been in touch with his kids over the years and he said, I will go to my grave extremely proud of both of them. So we have a clip of his son, Michael, who was 12 years old at the time of the murder.
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Yeah. How do you even deal with that? How do you even begin to process that? I have no idea. But I think, I mean, if anybody knows their father best, it's his kids, right? Sure. So hearing them say that, I agree with you, Danny. It's pretty convincing.
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You know, I'd say I'm like 70% leaning towards sleepwalking, 30% that this was, and I want to leave a little bit, I'm not higher than that because I think there's enough. There's just enough that we don't know. But we can agree there's enough for reasonable doubt.
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I know that I can come to a unanimous decision that he's guilty of murder, especially first degree murder.
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So the sheriff for a long time down there. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Scary guy. Yeah.
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They're kind of known for going. Really hard.
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Cause that's the interesting thing is people are actually far more capable than you would think when they're in that deep REM sleep. They can interact with things. Yeah. And like people go grocery shopping, drive a car for miles. Yeah. It, I learned so much, uh, in researching this episode. I'm like, this is, this is far crazier than I ever expected. That's nuts. Danny, have you ever slept walk?
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What about just sleeping on your extremities?
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Like, like where the, where you, because when you're awake, you never just lay on top of your arm. Oh, I get what you're saying.
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But then when you're asleep, you'll do, I'll put myself in a pretzel position and I'll wake up and I feel like all my limbs are amputated and I start freaking out or usually it's one arm and I'll be, I'll be like this in my bed, holding my other arm, praying the blood comes back to it or I'll be scared. I'll be like, I'm gonna have to get my arm amputated.
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I've had both arms one time. Really? I felt so helpless. I think I rolled out of bed onto the floor to try to get up on my knees so that I could, but I'm like, why did I go into that position in the first place while I'm sleeping? And was there something that I was dreaming that potentially put me in that position? Or did I just,
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roll over from my back to my stomach to get comfortable or something and then fell on top of my limbs but because i was still sleeping there could be it's weird i don't know i hate it yeah i'm gonna start strapping myself down fully just get a straight handcuff me yeah straight jacket
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Yeah, I agree. Not only that, but one I definitely have experienced that is a parasomnia is night terrors. Night terrors. That's a huge one.
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I used to think demonic entities were descending from my ceiling.
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And one time I woke up thinking that my apartment was being shot at. Damn. Like I, I, I woke up pop, pop, pop. I jumped out of bed, like from a deep sleep, jumped out of bed, went to the window and was like peering out the window. And I scared the shit out of Kendall. I was like, there's gunshots. There's gunshots. I just heard gunshot. And she was so great.
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She's like, that was one of the scariest fucking nights. Cause I was like, what are you talking about? That's terrifying. Yeah. Or, or then the other time was I woke up and I was like, oh my God, do you see that? See the black thing descending from the ceiling? And I like woke her up too. And I was freaked the fuck out.
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Sleep terrors. There you go. But if I, and we'll get into the science behind it, but I was under extreme stress during that time of my life. For sure. Very stressed out with, with school and work. And, um, you know, I was a struggling college kid. And so, yeah. And then I was also had a really bad, I was also deconstructing from Christianity at the time. Fun. Fun times. Been there. And
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Yeah, and my relationship with my parents was horrible. So I had all these factors. So my stress was on a whole other level.
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And then we're all going to lay down on our cots and take a nap.
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We're talking about such niche. A percentage of a percent. Yes.
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Yeah, which is interesting because I don't think there's been a case as far as we know where somebody has gotten a hunting rifle out and then went out into the streets and started shooting at people. Like, yeah, randomly? No. Or any sort of mass shooter event, this hasn't cropped up.
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Yeah. And like 99% of the time, it's not a big deal. I mean, tons of people, I know there's tons of viral TikToks of sleepwalkers that are pretty wild when they go out, they literally leave the house and they're like walking dog down the street and stuff.
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Or just put a bunch of Legos on the ground where they walk. Well, the chair thing kind of worked too because he would walk into the chair and that was enough to kind of make him fall. Like he would fall to the ground sometimes.
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it's kind of funny just imagine i know better than leaving yeah i'd be like oh okay he's back because i think sometimes i don't think my parents would always wake up and i think sometimes he would literally wake himself up from running into the chair or tripping over the stairs or something and then come and just be like oh back in the bed and be like where'd you go dude yeah yeah
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But just this whole, whole phenomenon is, is really wild, but specifically what causes somebody to then escalate to this aggressive state where they proceed to murder somebody and oftentimes stab somebody multiple times. I mean, it's just like when there is no history of that sort of behavior before.
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Yeah. Kitchen knives. Yeah. They're all over the place. So was it just the fact that he was working on the pool before and that that was still programmed and it was just like, that's the, we'll pick up where we left off here in three hours when I'm asleep. And that's the idea is that he was just, he knew he had to go do that.
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how the hell are people sleep driving and then going to the grocery store? Yeah. That happens. If that's all that you did, maybe day in, day out, but like, wow. Yeah. If only there was a way to train ourselves to, To get shit done while we slept. Clean your house. If I could go walk safely.
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Cause they will do a sleep study on you. Your PCP will order a sleep study for you and then you can actually go see. And then you might, a lot of us have sleep apnea and we have no idea. That's true. Yeah. My brother had sleep apnea for a long time. Yeah, I think I have it too, but I won't do the sleep study. I need to.
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Yeah. I'm glad I'm not walking either. Things just go. Yeah. A lot of things can happen. Yeah. This episode is also brought to you by Helix Sleep, and they're running an awesome sale right now. So it's perfect time to upgrade your mattress. Just head over to helixsleep.com slash lights out for more info. I am a huge, huge fan of Helix Sleep.
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So that's what we're going to dive into today, which I'm very, yeah, I'm interested to hear if anybody out there has any experiences with sleepwalking personally. And I mean, hopefully nobody has any direct experiences with homicidal somnambulism. Let me say it again. Somnambulism is the term. scientific word, I believe, for sleepwalking. Right, right.
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They were nice enough to send me new mattresses for my home for everybody, including children's mattresses. But I can't say enough good things about Helix, so much so that I literally have gotten them for all my friends and my family. Actually, Helix was nice enough to get my mother-in-law a new mattress after hers got kind of dirty from the recent hurricanes.
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And she just got it and she absolutely loves it. She actually slept in my guest bed, which is a Helix mattress. It's the Midnight Luxe. And she loved it so much. She was like begging me. She's like, how do I get my hands on one of these? I need a new mattress. And Helix was nice enough to send her one. And she loves it so far. I love Helix. You will too.
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Again, they have mattresses for everybody, all types of sleepers. They have a sleep quiz. You know, some people are skeptical about buying a mattress online, which I get. You want to try it out before you buy it. But Helix makes it so simple. You just go through the quiz and they match you up with the mattress they think they'll be best for you.
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And they have mattresses at all price points, which is great. They have their award-winning Lux version and ultra premium elite collections as well. They're designed for big and tall sleepers. And like I mentioned, they have a Helix kids mattress as well. The best part about Helix though is that they'll deliver your mattress right to your door with free shipping in the US.
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It comes rolled up in a box. It's super easy to set up yourself. If you're watching this on YouTube, you'll see. See the unboxing process, setting it up. It really is that easy. It's amazing that they're able to stuff these massive mattresses into a box at all.
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But if it makes you nervous to buy something online that you haven't tried, Helix has a 100 night sleep trial so that you can get more than three months to make sure that you love it. I'm personally a back sleeper, kind of side sleeper. But again, they make a mattress for everybody. The one that I love is the Midnight Luxe. Highly recommend it. And right now, Helix is running their president sale.
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and it's only running for a limited time. They're offering our listeners here at Lights Out an exclusive discount this month, 27% off your mattress purchase. So a really, really great deal. They also have sheets, they have pillows, they have bed frames. They got you covered all the way around when it comes to elevating your sleep. So check it out today, helixsleep.com slash lights out.
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But sleepwalking usually begins one to two hours after falling asleep, right? And it generally lasts several minutes, but in some cases it's been known to last longer. What's interesting is that sleepwalking also often runs in the family.
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And although not all factors are completely understood at this point, some of them include genetics, psychological stress, sleep deprivation, medications, and medical conditions. So, so many different factors that can play into it. I mean, it could be a medication, a supplement.
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Medications like benzodiazepines, GABA agonists like Ambien, antipsychotics, Parkinson's medications, some antibiotics, and blood pressure medications can potentially cause parasomnias. And the list goes on and on and on. But it's important to look at side effects of your medications because you never know.
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According to Dr. Michelle Kramer-Borman, out of hundreds of cases, about a third of the cases they reviewed involved the alleged influence of, you guessed it, Ambien. This term Ambien zombies, as they've been called, can potentially begin sleepwalking, sleep eating, sleep sex, and sleep driving. I mean, I've heard wild Ambien stories. Same, same.
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Yeah. I mean, I, I don't even know that I've ever tried Ambien before. Yeah. It scares me. I just, if I had, it was like a tiny, tiny bit, but I've, I've no people who have. And when, when you take enough of that, I mean, you can, you know, just subtract a few days from, yeah. From your life. Cause it's just, it's like a complete blur. Yeah.
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Yeah. So don't, don't eat, don't deep fry that chicken while you're on. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's... There's so many things, though. Yeah, a lot of factors. Many studies into parasomnias are relatively new in the field of sleep medicine. For example, REM sleep behavior disorder wasn't officially identified until 1986, but even though some of the research is fairly new...
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Parasomnias are not rare at all. Sleep medicine specialist Carlos Schenk from SFA and a professor of psychiatry at the University of Minnesota Medical School claims that millions of Americans have some type of parasomnia. I believe it. I do too. Some people even climbed out of windows, driven for miles, and even had sexual affairs while sleeping. How do you explain that?
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Yeah. One woman apparently dreamed that she was cooking for a dinner party and woke up at 6.30 a.m. and she found her kitchen table fully set and the meal prepared, which is, that's a best case scenario. Right, yeah. While you sleep, you made your breakfast for the next morning or dinner the next day? Table set, but you still got restful sleep. Sweet.
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I wish I could do all my chores while I was sleeping. I'd have so much more free time. If I could just like clean up all the dog poop, groom my animals and like... Might change the litter boxes while I was also getting arrested. That'd be great. I'd gain so much time back in my day. Do all your chores. All the laundry, all the, you know, clean my garage. Were the dishes done when she got up?
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You know, it was probably a disaster. Yeah. Something had to have gone wrong though. Yeah. Glass all over the floor. She dropped a few on the way to the table. Yeah. Others have also been reported as having violent tendencies while sleepwalking. And forewarning, this is about an animal. It's disturbing. If you don't want to hear about animal violence, skip ahead. Yeah, just like 10 seconds.
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One woman once woke up to find that she had gotten her cat, put it on the cutting board, and sliced it up. Oof. Terrible.
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Dude. That's so nuts. Dude, her guardian angel. Yeah. Working overtime to do that. Another man had nearly snapped his wife's neck while he was dreaming of deer hunting with his hands as a weapon.
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Somnambulism. yeah so let's get into it one of the most bizarre sleepwalking murder cases in the u.s happened in 1997 when scott fullader a devout mormon stabbed his wife 44 times with a hunting knife this is crazy yeah this one just blew me away So Scott and his family had been living the American dream.
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Seems like you can get in a deep enough sleep that nothing happens.
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works like you just have to wake yourself up right yeah whenever you you know transition from that uh phase of sleep right exactly you're like locked in right which is also terrifying it is really scary yeah it's terrifying but i think it kind of proves to you know his point that it proves it helps prove his innocence in a sense anecdotally speaking at least right yeah yeah i don't know any cat that would willfully allow you to pin them down on a cutting board right true without giving up a damn good fight right exactly that's a great point
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What? What? Your brain can be split? Half asleep, half awake? The brain is... We just still don't know anything. Yeah. So for sleepwalkers, the part of the brain that shuts down is the part that controls a person's judgment.
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He worked as a product manager at Motorola Semiconductor Plant and was a youth group teacher at the Mormon Church. He lived in Phoenix, Arizona with his family, his wife, Yarmila, whom he called Yarm, who was his childhood sweetheart, and their two children. And I mean, you can probably just envision what him and his family were like.
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Their eyes are open, they can observe the environment and they can interact with things, but the main problem is that they don't consider the consequences while they're acting. They also don't feel pain, which is also called analgesia. Some sleepwalkers have gone out barefoot in the snow without waking up, even when their skin is blackening from frostbite. Oh, man.
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In another example, that's a fake. Oh, sorry.
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In another example the SFA investigated, a man had just gotten out of successful back surgery at the hospital and 12 hours later he was found dead outside wedged between a generator and a hospital wall six floors below the hospital rooftop. So the question was, had he jumped or was he pushed? Ultimately SFA concluded the answer was neither. He was sleepwalking and walked off of the roof.
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but how did they figure that out? The autopsy showed that there were significant abrasions along the individual's back that indicated he fell straight down, and if he had jumped or was pushed, he wouldn't have fallen straight down. Investigators concluded he had walked upright, just straight off the ledge. That's crazy.
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He was also barefoot, meaning he had walked willingly across the roof's layer of sharp stones, and since sleepwalkers cannot sense pain, This was how SFA argued the case. SFA also clarifies that moving while asleep is not always a form of technical sleepwalking.
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For example, REM sleep behavior disorder, sometimes called RBD, occurs during rapid eye movement sleep, but sleepwalking occurs during the stage known as non-rapid eye movement. REM is the stage where we dream, and if you remember from our sleep paralysis episode, this also means that this is also when our body essentially paralyzes itself. Or it's supposed to.
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It's a protective mechanism that keeps us and the people around us safe from our potential physical reactions to a dream. Which, I'm sure we've all had some violent dreams before. Sure. But Dr. Mahold and Shank reported that some people can leave the paralysis of REM sleep and then physically act out their dreams. I want to film myself sleeping. I want to know what I do.
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They went to church, they're a relatively quiet family, according to neighbors. but their lives would radically change on January 16th, 1997. At around 10 p.m. that night, Yarmila had fallen asleep watching ER in the living room. Scott had prepared a lesson plan for his Mormon religious education class and then briefly worked on fixing an issue with their pool, but ended up just giving up.
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Thank you. Hostess Twinkie. Used to eat those a lot as a kid.
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He had gotten the tools, which allegedly included a knife for removing the O-ring in the pool and his work clothes from the trunk of his car, but had decided to delay work until the following day because he was just too tired and it was dark out. We've all been there.
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Yeah, because that wouldn't turn out well either because then everybody would be trying to fake this parasomnia defense. Yep. While the research into parasomnias has only gained more traction in recent decades, the earliest use of a sleepwalking defense in U.S. history dates all the way back to 1845.
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So we're going to go back to a long, long time ago in the case against Albert Tyrrell in the murder of Mary Ann Bickford. So here is that story. 22-year-old Albert was a wealthy man from Weymouth, Massachusetts, and was born in 1824. In 1845, he was married and living with his wife and two children, but he was known to be an unfaithful man. He was a little fuck boy back then.
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That year, he left his wife to be with a woman named Marianne, also known as Maria Bickford. Mary was married at 16 years old and was now 21, and she had escaped her husband in Maine and worked as a prostitute living in a Boston boarding house on Cedar Lane.
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Albert disapproved of Mary's prostitution, but she continued to work regardless, and they soon fell in love and began living together as husband and wife inside of the boarding house. The relationship had quickly scandalized the city of Boston, and the owners of the boarding house also charged much higher rent for cohabitating unmarried couples. No, no, no, no. Not allowed.
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Regardless, they were often connected at the hip and traveled together using aliases. Reportedly, they had a toxic relationship. Mary apparently told one of the other boarders that she enjoyed fighting with Albert because they had, quote, such a good time making up. And you know where that's going. Oh, boy.
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Albert was later indicted on charges of adultery on September 29, 1845, but friends and family, and even his wife, pleaded to the prosecutor and requested a stay of proceedings in hopes that Albert could be reformed. His trial was then postponed for six months, and Albert posted bond and immediately rushed back to live with Mary at the boarding house.
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And the knife thing obviously is a big component to this, but I know I've used probably much larger knives than I should have for... To remove something.
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But their love affair would end abruptly on October 27, 1845.
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We all have. Yeah. He then found his wife asleep on the couch, kissed her goodnight, and then went upstairs to bed. Hours passed and Scott claimed that a commotion outside woke him up and his dogs began barking. Local police entered his home and found Scott at the top of the stairs in his pajamas, acting confused and asking what was going on.
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On the first day of the trial, the prosecutor called witnesses who helped establish a circumstantial case against Albert Terrell.
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but there was enough doubt in the case when the medical examiner claimed that the neck wound could have been self-inflicted i don't think anybody's doing a neck wound that deep another witness mary head who lived near the boarding house claimed that albert had visited her on the morning of the murder He rang her doorbell.
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When she answered, he made a gargling noise and asked her if there were some things there for him. According to Mary, she was frightened by his, quote, strange state as if asleep or crazy.
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Another odd eyewitness report came from Albert's brother-in-law, Nathaniel Bailey, and he claimed that when Albert arrived in Weymouth, he said he was fleeing the adultery indictment even though it seemed like he was fleeing the murder. When Nathaniel told Albert that Mary had been killed, Albert appeared genuinely shocked by the news.
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The defense began by attacking Mary's character and proposing that she might have cut her own throat. They defended Albert, saying he was an honorable and upstanding gentleman until he met Mary, and he was simply a, quote, prisoner who was, quote, spellbound. Very sound argument. Yeah. And after assassinating Mary's character, the defense then introduced somnambulism into their strategy.
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The defense even argued that Alexander the Great had even imagined a battle strategy in his sleep. Where'd they pull that out? Then the defense called Albert's family and friends to the stand and each of them recounted how strange he had behaved at different points in his life. Some claim he began sleepwalking at the age of six and the instances got worse with age.
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Police had their guns aimed at him and ordered him to get on the floor. And obviously in that type of situation, you're just going to comply. But he warned the other officers that there were three other people in the house, his two children and his wife. He was then placed under arrest.
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One time he forcibly grabbed his brother, pulled down curtains and smashed windows and even yanked his cousin out of bed and threatened him with a knife. Each time he was sleepwalking and he would speak with a shrill, trembling voice.
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These testimonies were then corroborated by Walter Channing, the dean of Harvard Medical School, who testified that a person in a sleepwalking state could conceivably rise in the night, dress himself, commit a murder, set a fire, and make an escape.
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And of course, from Harvard. Yep. Yep. I guess Harvard is in Massachusetts, so it makes sense. Yeah, it's close by.
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And when police started looking around, they found his wife's body floating in the blood-filled pool in their backyard. And apparently this was such a disturbing scene that they compared it to a shark attack.
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I'm sure prosecutors either know this from law school or they go and look into it. Yeah.
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Well, the fact that we actually understand the sleep cycles helps a lot. And there's a lot more obviously data and studies going on. But over the years, many cases that have used a sleepwalking defense have failed.
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Many lead to a conviction, but another strange, almost unbelievable case with a more legitimate argument for a sleepwalking defense involved a 24-year-old Canadian man named Kenneth Parks and his in-laws in 1987 in the Toronto area of Ontario. According to Kenneth, the last thing he remembered on the night of May 24, 1987 was falling asleep to an episode of SNL.
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He then experienced strange flashing images like in a dream. He saw his mother-in-law with a panicked look on her face. And the next he was yelling, kids, kids, trying to warn them about something. The next was just the sound of a phone beeping off the hook. And all of a sudden he was awake in his car with a bloody knife next to him in the passenger seat.
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Kenneth then drove to the closest police station at 4.15 a.m. and he blurted out, "...I just killed two people. I've just killed my mother and father-in-law. I stabbed and beat them to death. It's all my fault." Police also noticed that Kenneth appeared completely unaware of the fact that he had severed the tendons in both of his hands.
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The police then detained him and raced over to his in-laws house in Scarborough, which was 14 miles from Kenneth's home. At the in-laws townhouse, police found Kenneth's father-in-law, Dennis Woods, barely alive. He had been strangled until he fell unconscious and also stabbed in the back. and the head with a kitchen knife.
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As for Dennis' wife, Barbara Woods, she was found dead after being bludgeoned with a tire iron and also stabbed five times with a kitchen knife.
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of dennis woods that was initially a first degree murder charge but they knocked it down later to a second degree kenneth's grandmother hired him one of the best criminal lawyers in canada and one of the first female lawyers in the country marlis edward and we actually found a clip of marlis edward and here's some of her thoughts on the case
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Marlis Edward then contacted Dr. Ronald Billings, an expert in forensic psychiatry, and according to Dr. Billings, he reported that Kenneth was depressed over what had happened. He found no evidence of delusional thinking. He didn't have an aggressive personality, a personality disorder, or antisocial behavior. And he was not a psychopath.
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Kenneth at one point had even been given the nickname, the gentle giant. And for the prosecution, it seemed like an open and shut case. Kenneth's father-in-law, Dennis, identified Kenneth during the attack and the murder weapon was found in Kenneth's car. Not only that, but they had his confession in the police station. But just like in the Scott Flader case, no one could find a motive.
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So here's some more of Marlis Edward explaining how they plan to build an argument for the defense.
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While his defense moved toward making the argument for sleepwalking, Marlis received feedback from her colleagues that the claim was ridiculous and far-fetched. The key would be convincing a jury, which would be extremely difficult. Nevertheless, Marlis pushed on and came across the neurophysiologist in Ottawa, Dr. Roger Broughton.
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the same expert who would later testify during the Scott Valater case.
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This is when his gambling addiction began, and for the next year he placed bets on horse races until he started losing significantly. He even began stealing small amounts of money over time from his employer to cover his losses. He had worked nearly 10 hour days as a project coordinator for Revere Electric, and in the end he had embezzled about $30,000.
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He was caught, fired, and charged with fraud, and he even spent a night in jail. But Karen and his in-laws, Dennis and Barbara Woods, supported him through it all. He also began attending gambling support groups, but unfortunately no one wanted to hire him after the embezzlement for obvious reasons.
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Meanwhile, Karen was also pregnant with their first child, and with the growing financial stress, he lied to Karen and claimed that he had gotten a job, but really, he was betting on horse races again hoping he would hit it big and be able to support his family and repay his former employer. He then borrowed money from loan sharks and stole money from Karen's bank account.
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The family's finances dwindled while Karen gave birth to their child. Three days before the murder, Kenneth's stress level shot through the roof when one of Karen's checks bounced. She assumed it was a mistake, so she visited her bank where they showed her several check receipts with her signature on them. And she realized that Kenneth had been forging checks.
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And when she returned home, an argument ensued, and she forced Kenneth to sleep on the couch. And that night, he didn't get any sleep. The next day, Karen discovered Kenneth had been lying about having a job, and because of the loan sharks, they were in more debt than she had ever realized.
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She was obviously very pissed off with him and began worrying that Karen was going to take their newborn and leave him for good. Again, he couldn't sleep that night. On Saturday, the day before the murders, Kenneth had been awake for about 48 hours straight. He then played rugby, hoping the exercise would be enough to finally get him some sleep.
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Later that evening, Karen returned home and Kenneth expected to be served divorce papers. Instead, she told him the plan was to sell their house, repay his former employer and start over. which he was absolutely shocked by her mercy, but he agreed, and he knew that he would have to confess to his in-laws about what had been happening, which added even more stress to the situation.
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He feared that all the love and respect they had built over the years would be gone, but he figured that was the price he had to pay for his poor actions. That night, Karen asked if Kenneth was coming up to bed, and he insisted on sleeping on the couch until he could make amends and move forward. He finally fell asleep that night to an episode of SNL after being awake for nearly 60 hours.
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With the mounting stress and exhaustion, along with a family history of sleepwalking, Kenneth was in a state where he was highly likely to sleepwalk. But the defense was worried whether or not they would convince the jury that Kenneth drove 14 miles along a highway and committed an intricate murder and assault against his in-laws while sleepwalking.
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The defense argued that since Kenneth had gone to sleep with anxiety about the next day, when he was planning to come clean to his in-laws over dinner at their house, that he might have began sleepwalking as if he was carrying out the next day's events. And this is possibly what led him to his in-laws house in the middle of the night. He had also driven the route hundreds of times before.
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The defense also noted that he had left the house without socks or underwear and left the front door to his house wide open, two things which he had never done before. Seem pretty obvious, you know, not only leaving the front door open, but going to your in-laws with no socks or underwear. Yeah.
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Which imagine being the neighbors and how shocked you would be. Seeing something like this play out late at night, too?
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This case is so... It's similar, but it's also different in a lot of ways. Yeah. From the Scott Flater's case. Because it's just like... I mean, this guy...
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stress for one on a whole other whole other level um but then just the prior history that's there prior history also like leaving the front door open no underwear no socks i think that's a that's a big one um his hands being his hands cut up to the point that the tendons are severed i mean
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It is hard to believe that he was sleepwalking for this long, but if there was somebody who was going to break the norm, I feel like it would be him.
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And they have family members that are cooking in their sleep. I mean, this seems like a, you know... Whether it's genetic or it's some type of, I don't know.
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And then obviously five neurological experts who are all unanimous and we believe he was sleepwalking.
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Yeah, a lot stacked in his favor with this. But in the aftermath of the not guilty verdict, an appeal was brought to the Canadian Supreme Court, which upheld Kenneth's acquittal. And there were questions on the quote, criminal automatism defense.
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The Supreme Court document read, the failure to prove that the guilt of the accused beyond a reasonable doubt in accordance with such principles will result in an acquittal. That is exactly what has happened in this case. The respondent has been acquitted in accordance with ordinary criminal law principles.
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And Chief Justice Antonio Lehmer found that the trial judge was correct in his analysis of the evidence and his decision not to characterize sleepwalking as a mental disorder. Part of me is like, this is Canada though.
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Yeah, it seems like they really looked at the evidence and really looked at all the information that they were given. You know, it wasn't just like the prosecutors was like, I want to get a conviction in this. So let's go, let's shoot for the, you know, death penalty here. You know, go as hard as we possibly can to just convict him no matter what.
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But they really looked at all the different factors here. Even Kenneth's wife, Karen, had been convinced that he was innocent. And after the trial, they reconciled their relationship. But after four years, they did get divorced. Reportedly, Kenneth Parks remarried, fathered five more children, and later ran for school trustee in Durham in 2006 where his children went to school.
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Locals were concerned with the previous murder charge from 20 years before, but many more were concerned with the proven embezzling from his employer and gambling addiction. His whereabouts today are unknown. But in the aftermath of Kenneth Park's case, many have reconsidered the sleepwalking and the quote non-insane automatism defense.
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Kenneth's case has taught nearly every law school in Canada, and many might find the idea ridiculous, but the field of sleep forensics has been growing throughout the years and uncovering more about the bizarre scenarios that can arise from sleepwalking.
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Many are concerned that if a sleepwalking defense results in acquittal, should that mean the person goes free without any repercussions or mandatory treatment? Canadian college professor Dr. Mayor Krieger, in an article titled Sleep Medicine and the Law, warned, If someone commits a crime, they shouldn't mean they're off the hook. They need to be treated to try to prevent it from happening again.
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One question is a legal one, whether the person should go to jail or not. The other is the fear that the person might do something similar again. What if they do something in jail? Yeah, I mean, I think that's a fair point.
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At the very least, I feel like they should also go and agree to be studied and try to further the science on this. Uh, you know, especially somebody lost their life here. So if we can try to prevent this from happening in the future or learn more about what's going on with, with sleepwalking, then, you know, it's a small price to pay. It definitely beats being in prison, but.
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Yeah, I agree with you. I think, I think that they should mandate something.
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But at the end of the day, do you think sleepwalking defense is legit?
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Yeah. Or, you know, I know there's other cases where if like, let's say your daughter is was murdered by her boyfriend and her boyfriend claims the sleepwalking defense. Sure. Are you going to feel differently about that than say, if it was within your own family, you know?
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But if you didn't know them as well as Dennis knew Kenneth, you know what I mean? You didn't know this boy and, you know, he's claiming that, oh, I was sleepwalking. Again, I think it really comes down to the facts of the case and, you know, understanding the health and behavior of, you know, and history of his past with sleepwalking and things like that.
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very very convincing yeah um for for it to work you know there's always the fear that people will try to abuse it you know claim i have parasomnias and which we've seen we see the insanity defense too right yeah exactly pull that one all the time but it rarely works um in their favor so yeah i i think it should i mean if you are not conscious when you do you commit a murder especially
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as horrible and tragic as that is, should you be held to the same level of liability as somebody who was, did this consciously, that would just be a scary world to live in. Right. Especially knowing what the brain is capable of. Um, but you damn sure should be able to back it up and experts should be able to come to your defense and be like, yeah, this person, you know,
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I agree. I agree. And I, I mean, I think the most important thing is we just got to keep studying the brain and neuroscience needs to continue to advance. And hopefully technology can assist us in understanding the brain more and why this happens and, and be able to measure it a little bit better. So it's not just like expert opinions, but rather we can have some data.
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We have a way to pinpoint somehow. I don't know.
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Well, and just stress in general. I mean, how many people commit crimes because they're stressed about something? So it's just, I think stress is kind of the underlying issue of which we all battle it daily, but finding ways to mitigate that stress and reduce it the best that you can definitely helps. But yeah, at the very least, if you're struggling with a
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sleep disorder or you think you might be just just talk to your doctor about it yeah um because chances are you know your doctor will refer you to a sleep specialist who can do a sleep study on you and i know with insurance the way that it is it's doesn't always cover it and it can be expensive i've heard some crazy prices on sleep studies but um at least talk to your doctor about it if you think you might have it and you know when talking about some of the things i experienced in the past
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I did talk to my doctor about it and they did recommend I take a sleep study, but for snoring was what it was. But the sleep terrors and stuff like that resolved themselves pretty soon after that because stress just went down with time. But I think I was massively stressed out with my situation at the time that that's what was causing it as time went on.
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Because I don't have sleep terrors anymore or anything. I don't think I have really any parasomnias at this point unless... falling asleep on my limbs is a parasomnia, but maybe. But yeah, super interesting. I mean, what do you think, Danny? You think sleepwalking is a legitimate defense?
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There's science to back it up. So you would believe somebody, you know, it'd be easier to believe somebody with a sleepwalking defense if somebody's like, I was possessed by a demon when I did this.
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Which, and again, in, you know, devil made me do it cases, usually there's some psychiatric thing that could be, uh, that comes up that you can point to, um, in those cases. But yeah, I think, I mean, the sleep phenomenon is so interesting. I could talk about sleep all day. In fact, I want to go sleep right now. This was a long episode. If you're still awake, hey, we're done.
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But yeah, no, we want to know your thoughts on this. Let us know if you have any crazy parasomnias or experience with sleepwalking. Yeah, drop it in the comments. Let us know about it. And also, if there's any other sleepwalking cases you want us to take a look at in the future, because I'm sure we dive back into this topic. There's plenty more. Yeah. Oh yeah. There's, there's definitely more.
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I know there's like a, there's a famous documentary on a case, uh, that we kind of alluded to at the beginning.
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Maybe we revisit that at some point, but yeah, let us know your thoughts. And then before we go, I did want to just make a quick announcement, but, uh, If you enjoy the video version of this podcast, I just want to let you know that from now on, the only place to enjoy the video version of the podcast will be on YouTube. And before you start cussing me out in the comments, let me explain why. So
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Basically, Spotify has been working to become a YouTube competitor. And, you know, we started, I started the show on YouTube many years ago. And YouTube has always been our home. And, you know, going forward and kind of with some other agreements that we have with, you know, our basically...
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rss hoster and you know they they sell over ad spaces for the show audio boom uh we have to we are not able to push the video to spotify anymore um and also just because of the you know it was affecting the youtube channel quite a bit in a negative way and so the best way to support the show going forward if you want to watch the show is on youtube uh Links are below.
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If you're listening on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, come over, hang out with us. We do a live premiere for the episode every Friday, so you can come hang out, chat with us, and watch the show with everybody else, which is always a good time. But the audio will still be on Spotify, so you can still listen to it.
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Same as always, it's still there, and we love Spotify for all you audio listeners, and so it'll still be there. No worries, but video is on YouTube. But Thank you guys for hanging out with us. We will see you guys next week back in the paranormal realm. Yeah, I'm excited. Which will be good. It's been a little while. So we'll see you then. Until then, lights out.
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So many unusual things about that statement. Really odd, right? If somebody was going to do this, and this was some type of premeditated murder, or in a fit of rage they did this, most of the time they wouldn't want to get caught, so why would they do it outside where everybody can hear and see? Noises. Yeah.
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But the circumstances are certainly important. Yes, very hot. And because typically you don't see this in these types of murder cases. No. After Scott was charged with first degree murder, Scott's mother and sister confirmed that Scott had a history of violent sleepwalking incidents in his youth.
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What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Lights Out. I'm your host, Josh. And I'm your host, Austin. And I'm the producer, Daniel. Today, we're covering a topic that all of us, I think, find very interesting.
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Independent testing on a device called a polysomnograph also indicated that he fit the profile of a sleepwalker. So instead of an insanity defense, his attorney put together an argument for a sleepwalking defense. At the time of the murder Scott had also been under severe stress at work, resulting in serious sleep deprivation, which experts say are common triggers for sleepwalking incidents.
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The defense planned on insisting that Scott unknowingly killed his wife. Psychiatrists in courtrooms call the defense, quote, non-insane automatism, a state where a person has no control over their actions and their behavior is, quote, unquote, robotic. Sleepwalking is one form of non-insane automatism. The sleeper simply carries out a deeply embedded program.
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Yeah. Where does that come from? Because who's programmed to do that? Right. Courts have accepted this explanation in cases in the past where a sane person can commit a crime without intent, malice, or even awareness. But it's often hard to convince a jury because attorneys have to ride this fine line between criminal responsibility and quote legal insanity.
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Right. In Scott's case, the sleepwalking defense gained national attention, and at first, even Scott thought a sleepwalking murder was a ridiculous concept. He even called it, quote, bullshit, pure and simple. But this was the only argument the defense had, and prosecutors in Maricopa County would be seeking the death penalty.
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As he considered the sleepwalking argument more, Scott said quote, I thought my brain had thrown a rod and I thought I'm going to the state hospital or to prison for life. That was before I even knew that you can take drugs that can change your sleeping patterns at night.
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At that point I was saying I'd accept a lifetime probation of living alone, let my kids sleep somewhere else, lock me up on my own because I don't want to hurt somebody else. Later he said, quote, Sometimes when I think about this I wonder, what kind of Jekyll and Hyde am I? There's no way I would, could hurt Yharn.
Matt and Shane's Secret Podcast
Ep 559 - Zoom Jam (feat. Nate Marshall & Shawn Gardini)
Yeah. Check out 15 for 15. It's 15 of some of my favorite jokes I've had the last 15 years doing. Stand Up, putting that out on May 15th.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Hey, guys. How's it going? Good. Good. How can we help you? Well, so I'm 43. I've been lifting pretty consistently since I was about 14 or 15. Of course, times throughout life, there's been different life's demands and stuff, but I've pretty much always stayed active. The challenge, though, is ever since I've hit 41... It doesn't seem to matter what I do.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
I don't see the physical results that I'd like to. I've tried changing up workout plans, tweaking diet. I eat about 80% clean. Nothing seems to work the way that it used to. I've had a couple setbacks. over the years, went through a divorce, um, tennis elbow that lasted for about two and a half years, did lots of PT with it, still dealing with some issues with that.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Um, I've had like constant stomach distention for about two years. I've seen GI docs, seen normal docs, um, seen like functional medicine doctors. Nobody's been able to kind of pinpoint that one had a PT who, um, So I had very little diastasis recti, but nothing that would lend to that. I've had a scope done. Um, upside to this during all this, I've gotten remarried, have, um, awesome wife.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
We've got five kids combined ages 11 to 17. Um, I'm just wanting to be in the best possible shape for my wife and kids. Um, you know, kind of disappointing, you know, get remarried and you don't feel like you have the energy that you did when you're younger. I feel like that's kind of like a less than scenario.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Um, kind of feel stuck in a, a dad bod situation, no matter how much kind of effort put in and change things up. Just wanting to get some advice. I want to continue to be an inspiration for my boys who they've started working out in the past year. And then I've got a almost 16 year old daughter who, uh,
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Of course, I want to just look jacked enough that any guys wanting to date her think twice about anything.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
It's more so I'd say like eating 80% clean, 20% processed in that sense.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Okay. Yeah. Mostly whole foods. I have like one day a week, Friday morning that I go to a men's prayer breakfast and it's like down home Southern cooking. So I don't know. I can't skip out on that, but outside of that, try to keep it pretty clean.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Yes, parasites, SIBO, C. diff. They did a scope to just see if there was anything internally going on. They said – I had a very minimal hiatal hernia, but the GI doctor was like, there's no reason that like from her perspective that that should cause anything.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Yeah. I went gluten free, did keto, did dairy free, those kinds of things.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
So I'm consistent as far as like bedtime, what time I get to bed, what time I set my alarm for. Sleep's been off and on, honestly, since the divorce. But like lately, I can't seem to get more than about six and a half hours of sleep. But that's typically interrupted in the middle of the night. Go ahead. What interrupts your sleep?
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
just wake up. I'll wake up pretty consistently between about two 30 and three 15. Um, I can even, let's say I go to bed at nine. I could even wake up at 1230, pop a melatonin in, in the middle of the night to just try to stay asleep until my alarm goes off and I'll still wake up.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Um, most recent current workout routine I did, I just came off of a, like a deload week and just started something new this week. But before that I was kind of doing a, um, I'd say like a combo between Dorian Yates and Mike Mincer approach.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Um, doing, um, weightlifting three days a week, but you know, like one day was legs. We'll say another day was back and buys. And another day was shoulders and arms trying to just get seen if I needed more rest and recovery for each body part. And then in between those days do abs and zone two cardio.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Not in that part. I wasn't falling to the extreme just because with my elbow, even having been through PT and everything, I can't always seem to go to complete failure because of the elbow, if that makes sense.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
it just always kind of feels that way. I mean, it'll feel worse if say like I've eaten a bigger meal, just kind of like, even if I didn't have the gut distension, you know, you kind of eat too much. You're like, ah, why did I do that?
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Yeah, pretty tired all the time.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
The last time I had my hormones checked were about, I think, close to two years ago. And testosterone was like between like 420 and 440. Yeah.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
No.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Okay. That's it. Awesome.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Um, how long do you think y'all to follow like the maps? 15.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Oh, yeah. I'd love that.
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2539: Four Critical Things to Consider Before Getting Surgery & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Awesome. Thank y'all. Y'all have a great day. You too. All right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I thought she was going to say my friend egg roll. Getting an egg roll from my friend egg roll. Oh, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Oh, those are dessert ones? Nice. Nice, nice, nice, nice, nice, nice, nice. Hey, Pan Express, please sponsor us.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
No. Was it a woman?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
That's, hey, who's the judge?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Do what?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
You're taken.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
The inauguration was boring, though. It was pretty boring. The beginning, at least.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I was certain there was a conspiracy behind being inside because it hasn't been inside since like 40 years, right? And then you're supposed to have this incredibly large crowd, all this stuff, and then they go inside. So they were saying they think it was because of safety reasons.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Is it weird not to say that, though? I mean, like, do they not even, like, is there a thing they just don't even want to mention? If something were, like, there were threats or something? Maybe because it would cause panic or something? Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
You called her the hat man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
She looks like Babadook.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I'm going to wear the exact same thing. I should wear that for Halloween. That'd be perfect.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I know. I think that was the good call, though. Yeah. Because I think that we were in more of the rhythm for that song that we did instead of... I wish I were better at guitar.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yeah, I felt it. I felt it all day, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
The Talent one, yeah. That was good. It was super funny.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
You gotta make your own... That's the... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What other ones did you watch?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
How old is that guy? Like 63 or something like that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Something like that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Off to watch it. What's it streaming on? Or did you guys buy it? We bought it. Okay, cool. What's your login?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I didn't even know that that was a movie.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
That's the one with De Niro? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's so sad. That's crazy. Yeah, crazy good, too. Golly, I started watching that Winston Churchill at War or Churchill at War on Netflix. Not knowing anything about Winston Churchill.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
incredible dude that that one story about how like why he rode like everyone else was riding dark horses black brown horses and he chose to ride the white one and they're like you're an idiot you're gonna get shot out immediately and there's that one quote he says there's nothing more exhilarating than being shot out in war and uh having no with with no result i'm like that is such a cool he was he was a beast man yeah
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
absolute beast I'm learning so much I like how uh before they bombed Berlin for the first time they never thought Berlin could ever be bombed and then the reason why they bombed Berlin is because they accidentally lost like one of the Nazi planes lost and kind of landed in uh London or accidentally dropped bomb I don't know it was like basically by an accident almost because it got lost and so wild stuff super cool it's a great docuseries you see anything else any new stuff
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Super soft shirts. Inaction. It does seem kind of almost like 90s youth pastor-ish.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Oh. Yeah, it was even weird. Like, we had in high school, there was rules. You couldn't, like, the coaches couldn't just buy you treats or anything like that or even, like, giving you rides or something like that. Treats. Like at gas stations. Like, we're, like, on road trips. Like, buying you food or something like that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
They weren't legally allowed to do that because of that kind of, like, stuff with all the paying athletes and all that junk. What? Treats? Treats.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
That's exactly why I did all of it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
On accident. I know, because sometimes they blow them up on purpose, which didn't make sense of us. Oh, my goodness.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Holy moly.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
That's crazy. That must have been, like, trippy seeing that for the first time.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yeah, that's wild. There was nobody in it, right? No. Goodness gracious, yeah. That'd be scary. Holy moly. Look at that one. Holy moly.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
No. It was definitely a perspective issue.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yeah. Imagine the God of heaven. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yeah. I'm like, what does that mean? That's crazy. See, that's the thing. Like I've been my mind's been kind of straining away from that kind of.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
idea of the spiritual world like that just you know a lot of that because we've just been talking about so much i feel like my mind's just kind of drifted away from it but i feel like because i'm like yeah what's you know what's true what's not but golly man it's stuff like that like even the government is using these types of things and that just can't be good like that astral projection stuff is so all the like going in a different dimension speaking to these entities and seeing this stuff so like
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yeah, I guess I don't know. I think that's just really weird that the egg-shaped one looked really, really strange. It did not look as big as what apparently it is. So where are they hosting all this stuff? Where is it?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I don't think stranger than fiction kind of stuff, you know, but like, it makes you wonder like, like these things that people are saying are just left out in the middle of nowhere, underwater, wherever it may be. It's like. Where else is the other stuff? How close are we to the nearest one? Is that stuff happening still around us?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
For safety?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I was just imagining people seek asylum. Chinese people seek asylum at Pan Express.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
But I have to rewatch it. I don't like the whole summoning thing. That seems so scary.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
And also, what's the motive for why these guys would lie?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Why would they lie? They would have no motive to lie, I would imagine. These guys are respectable. They're, you know, they've got a good life and now they're just trying to tell the truth, their truth.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Also, yeah, the history of whistleblowers is not... It's actually pretty good, actually, being a whistleblower. Nothing ever bad happens to them. No, I mean, think about one whistleblower. They're always happy. PE teachers, coaches, other people that have whistles.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Lifeguards, always blowing their whistle in good situations. Yeah. Traffic cops. Always.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
We all just go to Wendy's whenever things go rough.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I'll give it a goog.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
They're thin. Yeah. That's why I ask for most of the time no ice. I don't like doing that. I'll do no caps with an asterisk. Two asterisks at Jimmy John's. I have to put two asterisks saying no ice in cherry Coke, and then it doesn't allow you enough characters to add the two asterisks on the end. I will find you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
So I say please, but I spell it P-L-Z because that reaches the amount of characters that I need. So I want to be polite, but stern. Please. And they never pay attention. They never listen. Excuse me. So Mr. Jimmy John's, if you're listening... I want to talk to you. Cage fight.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yeah. Could you imagine? Why is that spell?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yeah. That's illegal. Under penalty of law. I think that world is just so fascinating. I want to learn more about this, man. I want to talk to one of those people that are blindfolded and try to see that stuff, man, because that stuff is psionic. It's so sci-fi to us, but it's like our own government is using this behind our backs.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
And we talk about it, and we look like lizard conspirators.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
We're all learning. Sean Ryan, the military guy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
There is power in this.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I can't believe you guys have seen this and I haven't even heard about it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Can you break this down for us? Why are you so upset about it?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Dude, the Bible's brutal, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
we used to get by about 200 bucks for groceries for two weeks really yeah we that that's we just got down to a really good budget just like real cheap meals and now that's impossible yeah Impossible.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Did you guys hear about that mountain lion that shut down that elementary school in Washington? Yep. Yeah. Pretty crazy, right? Yeah. It's insane. Stinking wild. So there's this mountain lion that's just like prowling apparently outside this elementary school and it like jumps the fence. It's like on the playground equipment. And they shut down the school, lock it down. All the kids are in there.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
They're terrified. Teachers are terrified. They call the police. They call the ranger. It was just a really big, fat cat.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
A big, fat, yellow cat. Weighing about 30 pounds or something like that. It was just this ginormously obese cat terrorizing this elementary school.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I thought it was hilarious.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Why? You're not talking to us. You're leaving this very open-ended. People don't know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
That is terrifying to me. That's so scary. Kelsey could have swore she saw a black panther last night driving. She saw a really large cat. Wakanda. Wakanda. Wakanda. Forever, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I like the sound of that. Gentlemen.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yes, you do.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Question. Oh, wait. Okay, you go.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Ooh. Yeah. Follow-up question.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Is this for life? Yes.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
You choose when you have the ability for these things. Yes.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
But I'm saying, like, I can change to be invisible whenever I want. Yes. Okay, got it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
And I can be knowledgeable about things only when I want to be. Right. That'd be good, kind of. Go to a movie, be like, because you know everything about movies and know everything, and then you just shut your brain off.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
She's trying to make a spectacle of it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I think flying would be too unrealistic. Like as a legitimate superpower, you'd be locked up, bro. Immediately a national risk.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
She's trying to make a scene.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
You'd be locked up. You'd be tested on. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
The luck and the knowledge is definitely, definitely the front runners, I think. invisibility because that doesn't work with clothes so you have to get naked and you're just a naked guy spending way too much time being naked yeah say naked one more time um yeah i'm going i'm going uh asia wisdom No, I'm doing strength. I'm doing strength.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
No. Strength. Out of all these things? I forgot about strength. I'm doing strength. Because then you just, like, it could be part of your job. You're still cool. You just lift up things. Guys, that's just the fun thing. You just got to pick up big things.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Knowledge. I don't even need that, though. I know, yeah. Because I'm already there.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Lucky Lily.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Is that insane? It's probably better than what I thought. I thought they were just going to have crackers and they would just go over and they would just like... Excuse me, I am hungry.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yes, sir. Oh, that's so bad, dude. That's crazy. Jam boy. Who thought of that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I'm going to be on Craigslist as your, as like people just hire me as their jam boy. Yeah. All these mosquitoes down here. I'll take the, I'll do it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
That's my jam, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
That's a good one.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
German, too.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Oh, yeah, like what's happening because it was shut down for, what, 12 hours? Yeah. Something like that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
um his pr moves going on rogan doing all these big interviews talking about like completely turning 180 they're taking off certain you know political features on the app and stuff like that so it's just like i mean it's so obvious now because now facebook even has a tick tock account they've never had a tick tock account before now they have one i mean it's it's yeah i mean obvious but they just you know they pushed it like crazy they made it a big movement it got everyone riled up
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
For nothing. Was it how you figured out TikTok was up? Was it just because your reflex went to hit TikTok and it popped up? She showed me. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
That's when I realized I probably have a problem because anytime I was by myself, because I was just by myself the whole weekend, so anytime I would immediately just hit TikTok and be like, oh, yeah, we're closed. I'm like, dang. And so the next morning, I'm just like, darn. Oh. Oh, wait.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Perfect.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yeah. I'm kind of bummed because literally like everyone was going to Red Note, you know, that app, the Chinese app. And I literally learned Mandarin for nothing. I did a whole week of Mandarin and became fluent in it. And now I don't even need it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Saying like literally the people crying. And I'm like, I get it. Whatever. Who am I to say? But it's also like.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
You could have waited just 24 hours, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I don't think so.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
There's a lot of people that like me, like the one girl that I saw that like makes coffee for all of her videos. She's like, I don't drink any of this coffee. I don't really like coffee.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
It's nuts.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
A hundred percent. You put way too much of your livestock into this one app.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
It's so good. It's perfect, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
It's so creepy. Can we leave?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yeah, I mean, it just seems like legitimately he's just there to pretend, I'm a human being. I'm normal. And it's not. It wasn't real conversation, it seemed like.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I saw those clips.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
That's, that's proof that right there. He's a human.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Can I dress like Joseph Smith the whole time? Yes. Preferably.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yeah, I know. I know that's upsetting me and I know. I don't even know what to do.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
No, I mean, I've really never even put it together, but I dated a Mormon, too, when I was younger. Really? Yeah, so we have that in common. Did you actually? I did, yeah. I can't tell if you're being serious.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
The delivery was like a setup, yeah. I went to eighth grade in Idaho, and everyone was Mormon there, so they were just like, yeah. But it was one of those things where the more conversations you have, especially I've gotten older, when you see those missionaries, they're so friendly. They're great to talk to. They're some of the nicest people.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
But when you ask questions, that's one of the things maybe that when they go on their mission, that's one of their purposes. But... there is a lot of confidence not being met up with basic theology, I feel like. Yeah.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Which is kind of a bummer because it puts them in a position where they have to defend it in a way against someone else instead of with someone who should be teaching them and showing them the actual scripture. I lived with a Mormon, too.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
That's the next lyric of the song.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
And family values as well.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
You always recognize they just... Mormons do a really good job of loving their kids and taking care of their family. For the most part. Yeah. As far as I've seen.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
They're completely related.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Oh, I thought you said almost 200 years ago.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
It was kind of close, almost 200 years ago as well. Anyway.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Accusing them when they didn't do it.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I don't like that.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yes. So I wonder if it looks different over time. Like if that curse can look different to different people.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
No, it's not true.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
No way.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Way off.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
We might be taking a trip to Maryland this fall.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Oh my goodness, dude.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yeah. Weird, man. Yeah. And I wonder what it is about those certain places. I don't know. Because like if it is based on a curse or something like that, that would make sense. But golly, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Or just like deep dish pizza.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Could be. Yeah. You know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I'm going to listen to them, and then I'm going to watch some stuff on it, because that might be my new favorite little...
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Um, but yeah, that was scary. It was like one o'clock in the morning and I just took a step outside and I was in Montana and it was on a cabin and there was a lake right in front of our lakeside, but it was frozen over. Right. And we were right at the base of the mountains. So like in the morning it was the most gorgeous thing.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
But I'm sitting out there, and it's just woods right there, a lake, and then the mountains. And I'm sitting out there for like maybe 10, 20 minutes, just kind of just sitting there enjoying the moonlight, so bright, literally praying. And then I just started looking around, and then I'm just like, man, this is spooky. And out of nowhere, I hear...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
You know that noise ice makes, like hard ice when you throw something on it, like that boom, like it's a weird. Yeah. I hear something crash and make that noise. And it literally to the point of like literally made me jump. It was so loud. And I'm looking and nothing's on the ice. Nothing at all. Like I can't. It's one o'clock in the morning.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Why would anybody be throwing like a, it's not like someone took just a huge rock and threw it on the lake. And then after that, literally 10 seconds. And then there was a boom, boom. And then that was it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
And then no joke. I sat out there for two more minutes. I was like,
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
and nothing it was completely silent and i'm like i'm gonna go to bed i went back inside it was scary it was really like terrifying because it's those those moments you're like by yourself and i'm like god if you just showed me a ufo right now i totally believe it yeah come on just show me one but then that happens i'm like okay i'm done actually i don't i don't want to see one anymore i'm sorry it was like a moose or something if like it just slipped on the ice and that's the sound it would have made probably wow it was just so loud and out of nowhere
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
trying to find this video there's i saw multiple people if it was like in uh was it like south dakota or something these people are aha here it is where is he at well blurry shared that one video of the like thing in the trees like it was like moving branches and stuff like that and it was no joke they had a flashlight that one in the tree did you see that josh like a while ago yeah throwing the trees yeah like but it was up in the tree or something
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
It was like three weeks ago.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
We're patiently waiting. Hold. These microphones are touchy.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Yeah, because he stopped it, and then it started doing it again.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Dude, the ocean is so scary. So scary.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Just don't let us know about it.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
What's up with that? That sounded like the intro to a song. Andrew should always have an echo on. That would actually be cool. Always talking from the other room. I wonder what's the farthest off campus we can get in this office where someone could be in the podcast, but they'd just be across, like into another side of the building. Like corded up? Yeah. So they're still listening to us.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
And that's it. There's probably no other perks, right, Josh?
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Oh, can I go now? Yeah. Can I speak? Sure. I'll wait till you're finished. Finished. I feel like a teacher in school. I'm going to flip on the lights. I can wait. Go. SundayCool.com. Listen, ladies and gentlemen, if you need church merch or anything like that for your business, there's no other place than SundayCool.com. Get it now because it's super soft. It gets to you fast.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
And we're lovely, lovely people. And beautiful things do await you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
What do you mean? Break that down for me. How?
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
That actually kind of would be fun. We have to test how far it would go. That would be fun. You know what?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Makes me much more aware of my bladder. Yeah.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
I know. I felt good about it too, man. I felt good about it too, but it's just... What are you laughing at? It's things like this.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Nailed that like a split arm, baby. Well done.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Fight back. Maybe you should try to twist what we're saying in a way that proves that you're in the right. Fight back, okay? Yeah, fight back, Lil. Don't just sit there and take it. Yeah.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
Oh, so how are we? Dude, I just got a fortune cookie that told me beautiful things await me. So doing pretty great. Doing pretty great. What do you think that means? Either beautiful people will be waiting right outside the door. Hello, Andy. Hi, Andy. We've been waiting for you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
You gotta read her fortune.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
In fortune cookie voice.
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127 - UFO Encounters, Mothman Conspiracies, & Giant Exploding Rockets
That's an intense fortune. That was really crazy. I can't believe. What do you think that means, Lil? I don't know. Do you think the flower is a metaphor for something? I don't know. It's up to the person who got the fortune to decide.
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144 - Hollow Earth Cult, Alien Encounters, & Crop Circle Conspiracies
Prime Video bringt spannende Unterhaltung. Erlebe Starkoch Andreas Caminada und seine Freunde in Dinner Club, enthalten in Prime.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
144 - Hollow Earth Cult, Alien Encounters, & Crop Circle Conspiracies
Erlebe die neue Crime-Serie Mobland mit Tom Hardy, Pierce Brosnan und Helen Mirren. Jetzt nur auf Paramount+.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
144 - Hollow Earth Cult, Alien Encounters, & Crop Circle Conspiracies
Egal worauf du stehst, das alles gibt's hier. Prime Video. Klicke oder tippe auf das Banner, um mehr zu erfahren.
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135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
I don't know either.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
Kalyazin.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
I'm like, no.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
Outlaws, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
Oh, I don't know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
But he still lingers just out of sight.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
Yet in the shadow he does the same.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
He whispers low, your mind to keep.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
He takes my hand into a dream.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
135 - Rockefeller Conspiracy, Russian Ancient Library, & Sonic Weapons
I hope this question isn't going to be scary either, Lil. Now that we're almost done with this podcast, let's answer this question. It's been sent in by our viewer. Today's question sent in by a viewer.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I don't know. I mean, maybe she's immortal and she has this communist blood running through her veins and that's what's keeping her alive.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Seine Kappe wird getötet. Ja. Ich weiß es nicht.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
That is Lilith Eugene Hooper, if I've ever seen one.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Welcome to the show, everybody.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Don't even be a joke. Don't joke. Literally try. Don't be a joke. Don't be a joke right now. Don't be a joke.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
That's so sad. Photograph evidence. We accidentally said that to the wrong printer in the office. Someone showed up and was like, I think these are your guys'.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
We'll put them in the bathroom for reading material. That's pretty great. That is a bummer, though. That is such a bummer that you married a communist. It probably makes it for fun, though, right? It's probably fun in the marriage. It does make it a little fun. Yeah. Cool. Never know what you're gonna get, kind of thing.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
No, I didn't hear that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
See, you could have communist principles without being a communist.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Cool. That's fine. I think that's fine. I support it, actually. Ja.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Mein Prinzip war ein Komponist.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Ja, ich bin ein bisschen überrascht. Ich dachte, es war ein bisschen. Ich habe hier einige Kopien, wenn ihr beide lesen möchtet. Wir sind alle auf Audible-Krediten.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
You're trying to be funny. Andy, you go. Legitimately try. You too fast. That was me trying. That was not you trying. That's not bad. That's great. That's pretty good. Andy. On a song? Hey. You're not supposed to try. Dang.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah, the one NASA's not helping us with?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
What was the odds before? It was like 2.4.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Cool, so by this rate.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
That's a week's time it's gone up a whole percentage. But the year is 2032 when it's supposed to hit, right? Yeah, we got time. I mean, if it was 100% right now and it was 2032, I feel like that would be so much more fun. The world would be chaos, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
But still, I think people would be just like, we don't know where it's going to land though.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Even though Earth is mostly water. But yeah. Yeah, that's wild, man. So that's cool, right? Yeah. I mean, do you think, I saw somebody thinking like that when it gets close, Musk is going to try to get samples from it. When it gets close. Oh, yeah. So that'll be interesting. How do you get samples from media? Yeah, hold on. How fast does that thing move? They've done that already.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah. Dude, send me. Send me. Send me with a little garden shovel. Ziploc baggie.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah. I saw someone, I feel like they pulled in one on a pole one.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Doomsday fish. You see that? Same thing with the fish. The fish are acting weird.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Dude, I explained to Kelsey and it really, I was like, what am I doing? I'm getting teary-eyed from a fish right now. But it was like, one of the lines was like, I just want to see the light before I die or something like that. There was one animation where the angler fish was sticking its head out of the water and he was looking at the stars and he says, oh, that must be all my family.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
And I'm like, oh, no!
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah, yeah. It's so dumb. And also, it looked massive, but when it got up to the top, it was literally this big. They saw this close. Look it up. Yeah, look up anglerfish. And it was, I'm telling you, it was like this big. They had the camera next to it and everything.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I don't know if it shrunk because it was so, because they're probably bigger when they're, I don't know, just going towards the surface like that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah, check out the video because they're incredibly small whenever they get to the top.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah, it blew my mind. I surely had to have shrunk or something. It's this big. Let me see. I'm just looking at this. Yeah, it's like two or three inches big.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Well, that's what I'm saying, but it's never been, they've never observed one out of where its normal habitat is, which is literally the trenches.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Also es ist einfach so.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I know. It was actually like really sad. But it's, I mean, I don't know. I just, I think there's something so spiritual about nature and animals and stuff like that that are beyond, like, I look at my dog Pico and I'm just like, every single day, I'm like, this is, it's just weird, man. Going out in the woods in Ocala was like, it's strange.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Ich habe um 11 Uhr am Abend geschlafen. Ich habe Pico mitgebracht. Du willst nicht auf der Straße, auf dem Wasser, also musst du... Ich gehe aus dem Wasser. In der Mitte der Nacht war es so furchtbar. Ja. Und einfach furchtbar, weil ich einfach... Ich schalte die Lichter auf für einen Sekunden und weiß nichts um mich herum. Ich bin so, es könnten Bären, Menschen sein. Wer weiß, Mann.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Ich habe den Todesgeräusch mitgebracht, um zu sehen, ob ich einfach rausgehe. Aber wir hatten literally Kinder mit uns. Es wäre ein Schmerz für die Eltern. Aber ich wollte es probieren.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Hold on, let me get my phone out, Josh. One last time. Do the intro. This podcast is brought to you and powered by Sunday Cool.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
That would be cool. It would be better than breakdancing. It would be her comeback. It's the same chick. How did you master beatboxing in four years?
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Dude, they're scary looking. Fighting Nemo changed my whole perspective. I know. That was great. But also just like the creation of that animal. Like I want to know like the evolution of it because like some fish just adapt to darker environments or something. It lights up. I know it does.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
That's too bad. We all evolved, dude. All over time.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I turned into an animal.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Send that over.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Red Rover, Red Rover, send that TikTok right over.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Let's go, man. Let's do that for the whole flipping Bible, dude. Got that Bible under my veins. Gets me all giddy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah, the simplicity of it, but also just like, it's the most simple thing, let there be light, but it's also in that he created a galaxy of suns and just a universe. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Habt ihr jemals das Bildschirmleben gehört? Nein. Nein. Ist das, wenn du in das Bildschirm schaust und du denkst, da ist noch ein Leben drin?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
How are you doing, Lil?
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
It's been four months since you've been here.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Also kämpft es literally nur gegen dein eigenes System?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Well, that's how we end, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
We really need a pool prank like that. Like an elaborate one. Like just something where we change people's haircuts.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Also ist es nur die Realisierung aller Schwierigkeiten und das zu sein, dass sie ihre Kräfte sind. Es ist fast das komplette Gegenteil.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Also es reagiert einfach das komplette Gegenteil. Ja. Wow.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
That's wild, dude. I hate that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
We bring in some people who used to work here and they come in like normal, like asking us to do things.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Spooky. Und du solltest das nicht tun. Es kommt auch in verschiedene Formen. Ja.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
He's very freaky. I saw him put on an ankle brace to dance on an Instagram reel. He was showing off, he put an ankle brace on and then he was dancing. I'm like, aren't your bones supposed to be really strong right now? You're afraid you're going to sprain your ankle while doing the boogie? I mean, come on.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Those are quiet inside thoughts. Brian Johnson. I was saying Brian Williams, but I'm pretty sure that's a comedian.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Are you just really obsessed with Twilight and trying to make it a reality?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Has he had plastic surgery or anything?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah, but that's like right there. I mean, I don't know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
This is great. This is great just because at least somebody's doing it so we can just have a gerbil, right? Like just some type of like, okay, cool. We saw how badly this went.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I think I've always said gerbil. I can't. What is a gerbil? I mean, I don't know. A guinea pig. Also, where are guinea pigs and gerbils in real life?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Die haben wahrscheinlich ein paar Guineas. Könntest du dir vorstellen, wenn du einen Schmoker hochlegst und nur diese kleinen Löffel Guineas siehst?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I finished the Australia one. We talked about that last week. Yeah, it was so good. I started the new one, the Saskatchewan one. Nice. Pretty wild. The first day of the Ducey is like a huge caribou. A massive caribou. About to pull the trigger, but they're protected. Because they're at risk. So it's like, boom.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah, there's no way I wouldn't be eating that platypus on day one.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I would say, it's really too bad that they're endangered, because it really would help me right now, but I can't.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Sie erzählten mir darüber. Auch ihre jungen Jungs, wie wissen sie über Skinwalkers?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Okay, what are biblical instances of people changing owls?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
That has to be the worst omen ever.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I know who you are. Jim, your neighbor. Nice to meet you. Dude, that would be so scary. I mean, if we're taking a literal snake in the Garden of Eden, is that not a form of a demonic skinwalker?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
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Skinwalkers are scary, man.
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Wir haben es um die gleiche Zeit gedreht, glaube ich, oder?
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So it's the deepest and biggest freshwater lake?
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I'm just curious how that stuff works. You have stuff and works to do over there? Stop it. Come on, lead. Josh, your line is sundaycool.com, the softest apparel on the planet. Go. Action. Sundaycool.com. Okay, cut. One sec. All right. So, your motivation, it's a great company. They produce T-shirts, apparel, stickers, hats, everything. There needs to be a lot of energy with it.
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So, sundaycool.com, get all your fresh custom apparel at sundaycool.com for your business, church or any organization.
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Okay, cut. You say 72-hour turnaround, like that's a thing that everyone has. This is very specific to Sunday Cool. No one else does this. We produce incredible products at 72-hour. That's what we're going for, right? So a lot of energy. Let's get a little energy in the voice, because it sounds like a very monotone. So let's have a lot of energy, maybe an accent if you want. Sundaycool.com.
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What I love about this company is that they produce T-shirts. Your eyes are closed. Let's take it from the top one more time. One more time. This is it. One more time. Action! Seine Kulaka-Mini!
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16 Stunden fühlt sich wahrscheinlich wie eine Woche an.
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When you want it to be colder, you turn the thermostat down. No, when you say to your wife, can you turn the air down? Me and Kelsey still, after 12 years of marriage, do not understand how a thermostat works. At all. I would say down.
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That's the question.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
A pile to a Nephilim?
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Did you just come up with that? That's another one. Oh. No. Why did you just cancel my segment? Oh my gosh. Did you see the one I sent on Instagram was if you had to invite some one person to hang out with them for a day and as soon as they start bullying you, you get a million dollars. Who are you inviting?
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I feel like I was a softball one for you. I would probably say Josh or my buddy Alex. I don't think that doesn't take long.
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How is he doing? Good. He's actually coming down the first week of March, right after Zola's birthday. So we're going to hang out a little bit. It'll be cool. I would say Lily.
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Someone in this room, that's for sure. He just shows up to work. I don't have to plan, I just want to work.
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Es sieht so aus, als ob es mehr und mehr kommt. Das rote Ding, das in Südamerika ist oder so etwas. Und es ist so, dass sie es nur beinhalten müssen.
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You said within the first hour? I think it was just, yeah, I can't remember what I exactly said, but I think it was just the day, so I mean, I think it's kind of a... Crazy question. You get to choose one person to hang out with for you for the entire day. If they start to bully you, you win 10 million dollars. That's what it said. Be rich.
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I'm sure there is. I can't imagine Kelsey gets bullied throughout the regular day. I think her friends are usually pretty nice to her. I'm friends with her. I know, that's what I'm saying. Are you bullying my wife?
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Yeah. Good questions, Will. Great questions.
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You don't mean it. You don't know if I don't mean it. You don't know.
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Ja. So go back to third grade. Who was the meanest person to you when you were a kid? Do you have like one friend that was like truly mean? No. No? Mm-mm. Me either.
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That's ridiculous. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard.
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The truth wins out!
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Santa in his Christmas spirit was invisible. He was holding your hand. Thank you, Santa. Have we checked on this dude?
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I got beat up when I was 12 outside of my middle school one time by a senior in high school and his buddies. To this day, I still have resentment toward that guy. I'm like, you were a senior in high school. Friends hold me down and everything. It was wild. We both had the same punishment. I'm like, this is crazy. You were punished? Yeah, because I...
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I beat up one of his friends who was also in 8th grade the week before. Oh, did you start it? I mean, I was dating a girl. He was the one she cheated on him with, right? Oh, you beat him up. I went to the high school basketball game. We just went outside. I beat him up. It was a normal fair fight.
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I punched someone like this, yeah. That's exactly how I punched him. And then the next week, we're at a basketball game, at a middle school basketball game, and his group comes over, and he's standing there, the guy beat up, is standing over in the corner, and then these seniors literally come over and just pummel me, dude. Dude, what 80s movie did you grow up in?
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I know, it's just like, but I'm like, even to this day, I'm like, I was 12 years old! That sounds like you deserved it, though. Probably, but golly, dude.
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I would hope not. How else have you punched other people? Just that one? That's the only way you haven't done it? You've never punched anybody ever?
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Or like... Like a cartoon?
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Du meinst die rote Sachen, die Leute benutzen, um ihr Tier zu sauber machen und zu wachsen? Nein, ich glaube, es heißt rote Kokain oder so etwas. Oh, das ist schrecklich. Und es gibt dieses eine Stück, wo du nur noch es inhalieren musst. Ja, der Teufelsdruck. Ja, und dann vergisst du alles. Du vergisst alles und bist so bereit, was jeder dir fragt.
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Look at all these people messaging me and missing me. I clicked it.
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3, 2, 1, let's go as in hey, get to the message.
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Whoa. So it just blows up?
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Oh my goodness, dude. So it's flying in at hundreds of miles an hour and just blows up?
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Also bist du einfach so, hey, kannst du mich in dein Apartment nehmen? Sie holen ein Buch und sagen, hey, ich bin verloren, kannst du... Und dann heilen sie es und du kannst es sehen und dann sind sie plötzlich so, hey, kannst du mich in dein Apartment nehmen? Und dann haben sie sie einfach geräumt und dann gehst du weg.
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Dude, that is scary.
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Yeah, that's the shot from the sky, dude. That is so scary because you just put coordinates in and it immediately goes straight to those coordinates. Dude, I'm just gonna have one of those as soon as I walk outside one day.
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Wait, Josh, you're for this? This is crazy, dude. Quit talking like you're pro this. Guys, think about it.
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We could take a nap. Someone tries to go knock on your door while your baby's sleeping.
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Devils Breath oder Devils Dust, etwas so.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Wir werden es probieren. Devils Fart. Devils Fart. Devils Fart. Du, ehrlich gesagt, wenn du einfach sagst, kannst du diese Drogen nehmen? Es ist pinkes Kokain. Es ist wie, nein, nein. Was, wenn ich dir gesagt hätte, es ist der Devils Fart? Gib mir das. Ja, gib mir ein bisschen.
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Think about the ROI on this. Think about all the numbers you could be pushing while you're sleeping.
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I literally talked about this. Was that you? When we did the communication in Dreams, I'm like, this is 100% what's going to happen. You sign up for a subscription, you get free lucid dreaming, unlimited for a month, but you have ads. And you can pay a little more for lucid dream plus. Dude, that's 100% where we're headed. Why wouldn't you?
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People are going to be thinking, I'm just wasting so much time that I could be entertaining myself. Will you wake up more mentally tired though?
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I can't imagine that doesn't just take any... That takes brain fuel. That takes mental energy.
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Dang it. Man, I'm getting abducted. Man. This is such a bummer.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
What kind of alien?
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I know. That's why I'm terrified.
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Lily's convinced. She's already on board.
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Oh mein Gott. Oh mein Gott. Oh mein Gott. Oh, like an actual name. For the ad agency?
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
That could be dreaming me. No, that's a bad one.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
You could do insert a dream. It sounds like a medication. Insert a dream. No. I'm just trying to spitball, guys. I'm just trying to.
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No bad ideas.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Poop ads. Nice.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Get off on the right side of the fence. Yeah. It's not good. No, because to me, it literally sounds cool. Like somebody like on paper, it just sounds awesome. Like you can control your dreams. You can do whatever you want. You can have fun. Heck, even work. We can create all types of ideas. But in reality, it's like that's just not how humans are supposed to function.
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And it's one of those other things where we're trying to be God. We're trying to be...
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Ja, ich meine, ich habe keine Angst. Wie Ayahuasca, das ist ein anderer Bereich.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Ja, du kannst einen kaufen und ihn einfach in deinem Auto behalten.
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No bueno! So, they're gonna get to the point where they can do that to people who are sleeping who don't have maybe even equipment on them. Because they all have equipment on them right now, but what if they get to the point where someone can access, oh, we know these people are sleeping in these apartment buildings, sending signals, subconscious signals, while they're sleeping.
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What if they put it in our devices to where it can send out a signal? MNU MKUltra.
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I don't know.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
But I don't think that's technically true.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Oh, it's great. It's kind of like Limitless.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Du kannst jemanden das Leben retten. Das ist wie wenn jemand überdosen ist. Ist es Fentanyl? Es funktioniert für Fentanyl. Es funktioniert für Fentanyl. Sie holen jemanden und öffnen einen Trunk und da war Phenol drin. Die Frau enthüllt es, fängt an zu schlagen und fällt auf den Boden. Es war ein Viral-Video. In Tveris? Ja, in Tveris.
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And so are you. I don't know what to understand. It's just weird.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
What's the genre of the Italy one?
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
If you want to do the Italy one, do the Italy one. No, I'm joking.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I'm going to say both of them. This sucks. We'll see.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
With this specific one?
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Und einer der Polizisten musste herkommen und sie mit Narcan schießen. Und glücklicherweise hat sie ihr Leben gerettet. Oh mein Gott. Das sind nur die kleinen Tränen.
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Ich meine, sie sind eine der ältesten Gemeinschaften, die es gibt, oder? Und sie sind einer der am besten ausgestattet und meistens unter Feuer.
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Yes, we are. We haven't dropped one in, I don't know, 50, 60 years. Come on. Yeah. We're fine. Come on, guys. It's almost closer to 100 years, I think.
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Josh, that's not what they mean by farm. What do you mean? It's a different thing, man.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Und eines Tages wirst du auch an dieser Farm besuchen.
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Das ist so schrecklich. Ja. Ich meine, das macht Sinn. Ich meine, es muss etwas sein. Es muss etwas sein. Ich meine, unser Welt ist meistens Wasser. Die Regierung muss Dinge außerhalb unseres Landes machen. Dass wir, ich meine, weil wer würde es überhaupt argumentieren? Wer würde einfach sagen, ihr habt etwas gemacht. Nein, wir haben es nicht gemacht. Was redest du darüber?
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Du könntest es beweisen. Es ist wie, naja, ich kann es jetzt. Unsere Regierung ist, sie sind literally die Beste im Weltraum bei Gaslighting.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Du denkst, wir sind gut daran, Gaslighting zu machen? Ja, wie lustig ist das? Sie wollen, dass wir Gaslighting stoppen. But we're on their side. Yeah. How about you turn that anger towards the government? Yeah.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I need to tell you the Italy one because there's one connection that I thought was. Okay. So there's this thing.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Have you ever heard of this? No. Okay.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
seltsam, genau wie das Beobachtungsbild, das wir geschaut haben.
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Hey, Buddy, you can still watch this. Or listen. I can't listen. Yeah, buddy. Okay, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Come here. Come on. Come on.
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Harry Potter.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Bubble boy. Good movie. Great movie. Jake Gyllenhaal. Shout out. RIP.
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I don't know. And that's before even like the USA was founded. 17, like 60 something? That's great. Like, that's such a long time ago. Yeah.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah. What's going on? The Count of Saint-Germain.
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You just type it in, because we have a clip on it, too. So we just list the story on YouTube. Fascinating story. Really crazy. That one's like... Because it's such a mystery of who this guy is. Yeah. So weird, man. But apparently Voltaire was friends with him. I have something related to close to Italy. You want to talk about it? Yeah. Okay, because I've heard about this.
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This is something really short, but I couldn't I couldn't remember us talking about it. But have you guys ever heard of Doggerland? No. Doggerland. Dude, this is crazy. Okay, so you know how Europe is an island. The United Kingdom is an island, right? Yeah. Okay. There was a time where the North Sea, all that was land.
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And it wasn't found until recently. Less than 100 years ago, some ship people were just going through and they had their nets down and they pull up and it's this harpoon type of thing. And it's like a metal. And so they're like, what in the world? And so they dig down deep. Guess what? A whole land that could literally... I sent you a picture on our text.
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Ja, something. I don't know. Whatever the vibe is. It's kind of scary right now with all the stuff that's happening. Natural disasters and plane crashes and stuff. The plane crashes are insane. There's one in Arizona. Did you see the one that flipped over upside down?
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All that green is literally where all that land was. It connected everything from Denmark... To France, everywhere, all the way around Ireland. And it wasn't until all the apparently it's called something called the something slide. And there was this huge tsunami, 60 foot wave that came from all the all the glaciers melting. So much water came in.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah. And so they call it something slide. And dude, it was absolutely massive. But it just existed there. It was lush forest, woolly mammoths and everything. And they're still discovering more and more. And they know nothing about it.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah. Isn't that crazy?
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
And the fact that we don't know about that, that's nuts. It's literally, they call it Europe's Atlantis. Welcome to Doggerland.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
That's fascinating. So crazy. I thought that was so fun. I'm like, they had to have heard about this. But yeah, I mean, like, it was surrounded Ireland and everything.
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Yeah. The Norwegian Trench.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Das ist das Wichtigste. Ich möchte nur einen Blick machen. Glaubst du, dass wir einen Blick machen werden? Wir werden die Vergangenheiten, die Geschichte, visualisieren? Wahrscheinlich nicht. Ich glaube nicht. Besonders, wenn sie gewalttätig sind. Ich glaube nicht. Aber in der Hölle, wenn wir wirklich zurückgehen können, wie cool es wäre, wenn Gott gesagt hätte, dass du nur in der Mitte stehst.
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Das war alles, was ich dachte, als ich in der Ocala National Forest war. Die Leute lebten hier.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Das war ihr Leben. And it's just like that would be such a wild time to see while it was thriving.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Dude, I can't go to the 2 o'clock. I can't watch The Great Wall of China being built right now. I'm going to see Pearl Harbor right now. What? Why would you go see that? The Great China Wall.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I didn't know heads could come off like that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Wild. Absolut wild.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Ich erinnere mich, da war ein Zeitpunkt, wo wir eine große Konferenz hatten. Dieser Preacher ging über den Himmel. Es waren 30 Minuten, wie groß der Himmel sein wird. Und am Ende hat er wirklich angefangen, es aufzubauen. Er hat keine Schmerzen, keine Schmerzen, nichts. Ihr seht eure Familie, eure Freunde, Moses, all diese Dinge. Und er fängt es einfach an zu bauen.
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Und ich so, verdammt, Mann. Das sollte genug sein. Ich habe es gemacht. Eigentlich war das alles, was ich über ihn dachte. Und ich fragte mich, warum du ihn nicht erwähnt hast. Da, Lee, that makes me sad a little bit. Doggerland. Doggerland, dude.
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Nicht viel für Frauen-Piloten jetzt. Komm schon. Männer tun besser. Stopp es, diese arme Frau.
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Gets emotional.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Ja, das wäre toll, anstatt von, wir haben Mirrorlax. Ja.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Das ist interessant. Wie die Medikamente von ihm und ihr. Ja, genau. Gott hat uns das gegeben, damit wir uns injizieren können, um unsere Dinge gesund zu machen.
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Come here. Come here. That actually hurt.
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Gotta get better at memorizing names. I know, I gotta get good at slurping.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Absolutely wild.
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Go on there. You can join for free. Check out. There's a ton of behind the scenes footage. Get discount codes for swag. All this stuff. It's going to be great. It's going to be great.
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How many grains of sand to make a pile?
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah, those are blowing up.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
That's awesome.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Please, just take five minutes out of your day. Do all of it right now. Even if you've left a review, leave another one. Yeah. Then you can leave reviews on Spotify and Apple, Google, whatever you want. Yeah. Come on.
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We love you. We'll see you on Patreon. Bye.
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Oh Gott, ich wusste nicht, dass du das tust. Ich wusste nicht, dass du das tust. Ich wusste nicht, dass du das tust. Geh wieder rein. Geh wieder rein.
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Yeah. It's my favorite Gulf.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Ich meine, was sagt er?
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I'm positive. That's crazy if that's true. The Gulf of Mexico? That doesn't even sound good.
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Are you kidding me?
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131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Ja, es wurde wahrscheinlich von den Giants gebaut, Alter. Wahrscheinlich, ich weiß es nicht. All diese Aztek-Giants, die vor allem in Mexiko waren, lange Zeit her, wer weiß. Du findest etwas Neues jeden Tag. Das ist verrückt. Ich weiß. Ich bin so glücklich, dass ich gelernt habe, dass Ninjas Butterfly sind.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Also, Andrew's been wanting to play that melody for the past two and a half years.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I think that was probably my second song suggestion.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Ja, das ist der erste. Unser Patreon ist voll. Bist du nicht in diesem Discord? I don't understand Discord. I have a hard time with it, but it's getting easier and easier. And also... We also have a voicemail that you can now call and leave voicemails for the podcast.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Whether it's just a, hey, how you doing? This was up. Or if you have a conspiracy or a story or a fart story. A poop story. Or fart that turned into a poop story. But yeah, maybe we can have like a little section. Or words of encouragement. Yeah, exactly. So maybe we can do like a little video series of reacting to some of your guys' voicemails. And you can go 1-800-865-0726. Extension number 1.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
4. So as soon as you call that number, just hit 4 and leave us a voicemail.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
That is me trying to... You being birthed. That was the actual audio of Josh being birthed.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Very fun. Yeah, we've had some people already leave it and there was one person that just left a fart noise. So that was pretty cool.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I hope it's not bad. Yeah, I mean, we don't go with that attitude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
I was holding my breath for that one, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Yeah, because, I mean, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Still, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Ran a background check, did a lot of investigating and I'm sure he came up with nothing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
As soon as we open it, we can just go on with the show. Yeah, so, alright. Lilly's not a communist supporter, huh? Well...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
131 - The Nuclear Vela Incident, Friendship Aliens & Skinwalkers
Oh mein Gott. Das könnte mehr offensichtlich sein, Lil.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Es ist schmerzhaft, aber so cool. Rad-Ministrie. Und ich war glücklich genug, da zu gehen. Ich glaube, es war 2008 oder 2009. Ja, du warst auf der Jock Mill Campus. Ja, ich erinnere mich klar. Ja, es war toll.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
I was. Okay, I promise. Not anymore. Now I'm fat, lazy and mean. Just get away from me, kids.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
I heard that you were kind of like sneaking your way back into Haiti recently, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Because it's been like, don't go to Haiti right now, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Will, can you do this podcast is brought to you and powered by Sunday Cool. Watch this or listen. Okay. Just try it based on what I just said. See if you can just do it. This podcast is brought to you or watched by Sunday Cool.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Sprechen wir von schweren Dingen und Katholizismus und so. Mel Gibson war letztens auf Joe Rogans Podcast.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Ein wirklich faszinierender Podcast. Mel Gibson ist ein sehr interessanter Freund. So interessant. Aber er hat die Geschichte über, was war es, 2010, glaube ich. Der Pop hatte eine Zeremonie, in der sie eine dünne Gnade genannt haben, die Pachamama genannt wurde.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Ja, und so haben sie sie genannt. Und das sagt, während der 4. Oktober-Tree-Planning-Zeremonie, der Präsident der Vatikan-Gärten, over by Pope Francis, or wait, the figurines were displayed for a view of the church members. Three days later, they were placed in front of St. Peter's main altar and transported to the Synod all during the procession.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
But they literally brought in this deity and were displaying it in the Vatican. And then there's this one guy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Yeah, which is interesting because we've talked about before, talking about the Amazonians and stuff. They have this story to where they make like ayahuasca, you know, or ayahuasca. And they talked about that their mother god is the one that taught them how to make this Tee oder was auch immer, um mit ihr in diesem anderen Raum zu kommunizieren.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Und für mich ist das einfach wie eine rote Flagge, eine große rote Flagge, weißt du? Aber das Bringen dieser Idylle in den Vatikan war wild. Aber dieser eine Junge. Also das geschah am 4. Oktober. Nicht dieses Jahr. Ich glaube, es war 2000. Oh, 2019. Das ist, was passiert ist. But on October 21st, there's a Catholic man named Alexander.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
I'm not going to attempt his last name, because there's no way. Yeah, butcher it. I'll try it. He's Italian, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
But he was outraged by the entry of the pagan deity into the church, considered it a violation of the first ten commandments. He stole it from the church and then threw it in the Tiber River.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Er hat gesagt, das ist ein Idyll. Ihr habt dieses Idyll auf dem Display. Er hat es verloren und es ins Meer gerannt. Ich liebe das.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Ich liebe es. Dann kam der Polk raus und er hat sich dafür verabschiedet. Dann haben sie es aus dem Meer genommen und es zurück auf dem Display gebracht.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Yeah, Rogan, who's not a believer, he's just like, that seems like they're not allowed to do that. Yeah, he's like, yeah, your guess is as good as mine, dude. But that was a really fascinating podcast. I found out that Mel Gibson accidentally hung himself. What?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
I didn't make it to that part. So he's like, he mentioned, he just said it just like that to Joe again. He's like, yeah, and I, you know, like accidentally hung myself one time and he starts talking to Joe and he's like, whoa, whoa, back up. What do you mean? And it was on the set of the Braveheart. Der Teil, wo sie ihn ausbrechen. Ja. Oh, wow.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Und er ist so, was macht ihr da? Und er ist so, geh zurück zur Arbeit. Und sie sind so, du hast dich verletzt.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Und er ist so, oh, okay. Du denkst über all das, das ist verrückt.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Aber er ist so, ja, ich fühlte keinen Schmerz.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Es gibt so weirde Dinge, die mit seinen Filmen passieren, Mann. Er hat einen Teaser für den nächsten Film, den er macht, welcher ein...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
He talked about Apocalypto too. That's a wild one. And he's like, how did you think of that movie? He's like, I wanted to do a chasing movie. Like someone's being chased. He said, but I want it to be like they're on their feet. Like I don't want a world where there's cars. And he's like, I want it to be like they're chasing each other and you don't know what's happening, what the culture is.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
And he's like, and that's where I came up with Apocalypto. I'm like, that's... He just wanted a chase movie.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Das ist nur ein Gedanke in deinem Geist. Wie können wir das machen? Es ist wirklich einer der besten Chase-Movies. Ja, es ist wirklich gut.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Ja, aber das war... Ihr solltet den Mel Gibson Podcast hören.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Nein, aber er sagt sogar, ja, ich bin ein Alkoholiker.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Aber es war so cool zu sehen, wie offen er über alles war. Und sie haben sogar über Addiktion gesprochen. Es ist so eine narzisstische Tendenz, weil es so ist, wie kann ich mich selbst benötigen? Ich habe es mir nicht einmal so gedacht. Es ist so, ich fühle mich schlecht, also muss ich das tun. Es ist super narzisstisch.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Er hat sich wie ein Switch geflogen und wurde sehr transparent und sehr vulnerable.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Was it because of the passionate press?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Wesley Huff is, he's 33 years old. So one year older than me. Whoa.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
One of the smartest human beings I've ever... He's like, yeah, I tried to learn Sanskrit by myself and she's like, oh my gosh, that's awesome.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Das erinnert mich an Lillys Vater. Er hat mit dieser Frau gearbeitet. Sie sagte, ich habe eine partizipierte fotografische Erinnerung. Er ist so, was meinst du? Er hat gesagt, ich kann ein paar Dinge erinnern, die ich sehe. Und er hat gesagt, also du hast nur eine Erinnerung. Wow. Eine partizipale Fotografie.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Ja, du hast nur eine Erinnerung, wie jeder Mensch. Du bist nicht speziell, Frau. Wir haben auf diese Person gecheckt. Oh, so gut.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Sprechend über die Erinnerung, hast du das gehört? Wir haben das, geh nicht irgendwo hin!
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Ja, viele Leute sind einfach so müde davon, dass sie verliebt werden. Und die Medien sind natürlich nicht das tröstlichste Land jemals. Ja.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Hey, willkommen Will McGinnis.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Ja, ich weiß nicht, wie viel du in Verschwörungstheorien bist. Du siehst nicht so viel aus wie ein Verschwörungstheorier. But we talked about it a couple weeks ago. Because there are true CIA... It's Project Mockingbird that came out. They did that in the 60s, I think. Just make up a number, I'll believe you. But it was basically them controlling the media and pushing propaganda through that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
So they actually had people working for the CIA that were also news anchors. Wow. Our theory is that, which is, I think it's pretty true. It can't be far off. They see that people are losing faith in the media, like, oh, there's a bunch of baloney. But now they're targeting, like, podcasts and TikTokers and Instagram people. And it's just like...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Sag ihnen nicht, warum. Das ist der Grund, warum wir auf Instagram 700.000 Follower haben. Aber die einzige Person, die wir folgen, ist die CIA. Some people catch it like, why are they following this?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Speaking of conspiracy theories though, the LA Fires. Wild. Whoa. Don't get me started. Ich habe auch ein paar verrückte Sachen darüber gehört. Es gibt ein paar verrückte Sachen daran. Und ich kann nicht mal alles formulieren.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Aber sie haben ein paar der Jungs gerade da draußen, die die Feuerzeuge starten. Oh mein Gott.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Terrifying and terrible. Yeah, I mean, yeah, terrible leadership, for sure. And people, like, losing their homes. How many people have died? 24, I just looked it up. 24 right now.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Ich habe noch nichts darüber gehört, dass sie enthalten sind. Ja. Nein. Ich meine, ja, weil das letzte, was ich sah, war wie 0% enthalten.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
It was weird, man. Anyways, whoever's watching or listening, comment of a place to where it would be good to send help, send donations, whatever. Yeah, we'd love to do something.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Sie sagten, dass die neuen Häuser einen Meter-Reader oder so haben. Und die älteren Häuser hatten keinen Meter-Reader. Ich glaube, das war es. They could use as much water as they want. So those people were able to save their homes. But the newer homes had the shut off.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Es ist schade. Ja, es war wie der Klimawandel. Es gibt viele Menschen, die sagen, man kann diesen Brust nicht wegnehmen, weil er schädlich für die Erde ist oder so etwas. Es ist nur Futter. Es ist eine Verletzung davon. Und so hat sich all das auf Feuer getroffen.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Ja, Trump hat darüber geredet bei Joe Rogan. Sie entwerfen Billionen von Gallen Wasser, die aus Kanada kommen. Und sie entwerfen es in den Ozean, anstatt es nach Kalifornien zu bringen, wegen dieses kleinen Fisches, das sie versuchen zu retten.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
I would say better.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
That's why I truly believe in survival of the fittest. It's a fish. If they can't make it on their own, then let them...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
You know what's crazy? I thought about it. I've almost known you for 20 years. That's insane.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Sie sind Jahre und Jahre vor uns.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Sprechen wir von off-grid. Ich habe das Ding heute gesehen und ich dachte, es war eine Lüge und es ist sehr real. Hast du den Enron-Egg gehört? The Enron Egg.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Like it was a bad deal. Okay, also es ist echt. Und es heißt das Enron-Eig. Ich meine, ich glaube wirklich, dass es echt ist.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Es hat eine negative Konsequenz.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
I mean, because they even had the FAQs at the bottom. It's like, is the Enron egg safe? Yes. And they said it has fail-safe mechanisms. The reactor automatically halts reactions if overheated. Advanced shielding built with lead, poly, boron materials. I'm just like, it's legit. They had testimonials and everything. It was crazy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
And I'm like, what's... Because they're like, oh, you power your house for 10 years. Yeah. And I'm like, what?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Big milk. They're behind a lot of stuff, though. Their whole Got Milk campaign.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
We got a poop story. Oh my god.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
It could either be your poop story or someone that you know. Just a fun poop story. Or a scary poop story.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
I found out that's a common thing for marathon runners.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Das war mein Transformation-Trip.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
She doesn't need any of that. I did watch a video. This dude compiled all of her private plane flights and compiled it to the shortest flights she took. The shortest flight she took on her private jet was 40 seconds. And it was from one side of LA to the other.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
And it was just to skip traffic. So she gets in the plane, 40 seconds up, down.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
What do you mean?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
That's perfect. We've had some pretty bad poop stories on here. That was a really good one. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Ja. Speaking of special. Yeah. Hit us with that beat. New? Drop that beat. New beat.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Yeah, you were in peak, peak physical condition. That was good. Yeah, now I'm just turning into an old man inside. Yes, you are. Speaking of Austin though, would you like a song? I would love a song. Okay, well, maybe just come up with something.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
It's right there on the other side of the pillow. Oh yeah, right there. I think I have your number. See if you just got a text from me.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Three, two, one, go.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Wait, I didn't understand the wisdom tooth thing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
I know. If that gets infected, you could die. That's actually true.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Exactly. Speaking of the Enron egg, this is a real thing. But they haven't done it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Have you seen that scientists say diamond dust could offset climate change? So they sprinkled diamond dust everywhere in the sky. Cool. But it would cost $175 trillion. We got it. Write a check. America can do it. Our government has it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
They borrow it. Grind up diamonds and sprinkle it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
It just reflects the sun, I guess. Yeah. Das ist seltsam.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Well, people have been talking about this weird, they call it fog, but they're calling it weird fog, and some of it smells weird, some of it is making people sick.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Breathe in those diamonds.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
I like the word frothy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Oh, but yeah, that's weird. The cloud seeding, we've talked about that quite a bit. Yeah, it is real. Which is so funny, because we've talked about this, so anyone listening or watching, they'll be like, you've talked about this already. Aber das Konzept von Chemtrails, wenn du das drei Jahre hervorbringst, werden die Leute sagen, es ist kein solches Ding.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Und dann ist es so, dass wir plötzlich einen unserer Senatoren in Florida hatten, der versuchte, die Wettermodulation zu verhindern. Manipulation. Manipulation. Ja.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
I mean, there's that documentary geoengineering in this dude. He 100% proves it. Er sammelte eine Sammlung, als er sah, dass die Flugzeuge, weil du weißt, du siehst die Linien, es wird ein kristallklarer Tag sein und plötzlich werden es ein paar Flugzeuge und es ist wie geblanket mit Flüssen.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Und so hat er an dem Tag ein paar Sachen gesetzt und alles, was runtergefallen war, geschaut, unter einem Mikroskop und hatte all diese Elemente eines Patents, das die US-Gewerkschaft für Cloud Seeding und Wettermanipulation hat. Oh, wow. Und er ist so. That's what they're doing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Yeah, also how the news is not talking about anymore when these places are still desolate.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Weißt du den Mann, der den CEO von United Healthcare getötet hat? Oh, ja, ja, ja. Luigi.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Aber er ist in der gleichen Gefängnis wie P. Diddy. Nein. Und die gleichen Lehrer. Es ist ein Mann und eine Frau.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Das ist wild. P. Diddy ist so verrückt, dass Luigi all die Aufmerksamkeit in der Gefängnis bekommt. All the inmates are like, yeah, Luigi. And P. Diddy's like, he's apparently super mad that he's not getting all the attention anymore.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Or just like sticking it to the man. Like, they're like, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
And P. Diddy, they're like, well, what you did is not that cool.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
That made me a little sad, though. Obviously, the medical industry and the insurance stuff, it's so corrupted. But like, people praising of this man losing his life when he had a family and children. It's just like, that's not cool, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Ich habe es noch nie gesehen.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Hey, speaking of changing the game, there's more booms happening, bro.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Okay, well, some people, it doesn't make sense for Florida, but some people out west, they're talking about, they're literally like digging tunnels. So that would make sense of like the, you know, but in Florida, you can't dig tunnels in Florida. It's all sand, baby.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Listen to this one. Even out in our woods, they were blowing crap up. Really? Pretty sure this one is in Florida, but this one sounds like an alien mothership coming. Okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Das ist nicht Feuerwehr.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Never gonna know this demon's plan.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Vielleicht sind alle schlechten Engel und alles, was sie versuchen, rauszuholen. Lass uns raus!
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Well, you know what's weird too is me and Lil just watched that movie The Return with a, what's the guy who plays Voldemort?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Ja, es ist die Geschichte nachdem er zurückgekommen ist, wie die Odyssey-Tale. Es ist so, als ob er zurück in sein Königreich zurückkommt. Es ist ein wirklich guter Film. Eigentlich ziemlich langsam, aber wirklich gut. Die Rückkehr. Ja. Okay. Aber ich bin so, ich erinnere mich nicht wirklich daran, was die Odyssey-Story ist.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Also haben wir dieses Video geschaut, nach 30 Minuten, das die Geschichte der Odyssey erklärt. Christopher Nolan macht einen Odyssey-Film. They say it's going to be his most expensive movies ever made.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
They already list some of the cast. Tom Holland, Matt Damon. Matt Damon? What's his name? Edward from Twilight. Robert Pattinson. But anyways, in the Odyssey, they talk about one of the islands that he gets stranded at had human eating giants on it. And they said that they were the offspring of the gods. I'm like, that lines up so much with the Nephilim, dude.
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126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
And so it made me wonder how much of the Odyssey is like, how much of it could have been a true story, but it's, what do you call it? Made fancier. Embellished. Frothed. Frothed.
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126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Wie sie die Geschichte verabschieden. Ja, sie sprechen über den Zyklops, den er in der Odyssee kämpft. Bist du mit dem Zyklops kennengelernt? Nein, überhaupt nicht. Okay. Das ist eigentlich eine wirklich lustige Geschichte in der Odyssee. Sie werden von dem Zyklops-Giant gefangen. Okay. Und sie werden in der Kirche gehalten und er nimmt die Männer aus, jeden Tag, wenn er sie isst.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Und dann entscheidet der Hauptmann, er wird, während der Giant schläft, ihn in die Augen stürzen, damit er sie nicht sieht.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Und während er das tut, sind die Giants so, wer ist das? Wo ist dein Name? Und er sagt, mein Name ist niemand. Und so ist die Kave geschlossen. Und so ist dieser Giant schreitend in Schmerz. Und diese anderen Giants kommen zu der Kave-Einschränkung, wo es blockiert ist. And they're like, who's doing this to you? And he's saying, nobody's doing this to me. And so they left. That's good.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Yeah, but I'm excited for that movie.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Christopher Nolan, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Speaking of frustrating.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Make sure to go to patreon.com slash ninjas are butterflies where we do a extra episode after the episode.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
If you're okay with that, Will. I'm very fun with that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Hey, make sure to go to sundaycoolswag.com to get all your Ninja merch. Go to sundaycool.com to get your custom apparel.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
No, no, you went to another level right there. And Will, give us some plugs. Tell people where to go to support your ministry. In Haiti?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Can you tell a little bit about the Haiti Made as well?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Keychains, all the fun. So handsandfeetproject.org and HaitiMade.com. Ja. Go support them, guys. We love them. Sundaycool.com.edu.
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126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
I can't believe it took me 30, was it 32 years to figure out that .org organization. Ja, das ist lustig. Alright, guys. Well, we love you. Love you, Will.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Die Leute sind verdammt verrückt.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Never gonna catch a Chupacabra. Never gonna hold one in my hands. Never gonna catch a Chupacabra. Never gonna know this demon's plan. But yeah, that's alright. It's okay with me. Chupacabra.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
And it's cool because we didn't copy that song from any other song. That is an original song. Completely original.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Yeah. Never heard a melody like that in my life.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
I taught him everything he knows. Is yours on?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Well, we're so happy that you're here today. Yes. Before we can just get into it and just have fun and goof off, be a little silly boys. Silly gooses. Not you guys. Bunch of silly gooses. We got a question and we really need you to take this one seriously. This question was sent in by a viewer and it's a hard one. It truly is. We don't I don't know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
We don't like to get into politics or stuff that's happening in the world too much. We try to be pretty even on everything. But today's question I think could really just spell out Everything. I agree with everything that you just said. It was heavy. This question, it's a yes or no question, Will, and we'll have you answer it first, if that's alright. Of course it is.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
It's your show, man. Sitting by a viewer. With our current political climate, should we trust him? Hmm. Remember, it's just a yes or no. With our current political climate, Will, should we trust him?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Well, it's definitely not a capital M. It's a lowercase m. And of course we're talking about the Hamburglar. I think you can trust him, too. I don't... Will, okay, well... He's a thief, Will.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Oh man. What did you think of our Chupacabra song?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
126 - Idols in the Vatican, Haitian Voodoo, and Weather Control
Tell us about Haiti and your involvement in Haiti.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Could you imagine the disciples like really upset at first, obviously, but then it's like.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
All right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
You'd hear the echoes through the valley.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
It's her Lord and Savior crying, repent, okay? You did this to him.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
That's amazing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah, it's for you to keep.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
We're going more. This looks like something you'd find on the beach. Dude, who was it at the Christmas party that wrapped a gift so absurdly? Zip ties, duct tapes. It took like an hour to unwrap it. It was nuts.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Fruit, cucumber. Three, two, one. Pineapple.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Thank you so much. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
You guys are the best.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
What is it? Where do they pre-order? Go now. Where? I have no idea.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
This is no better time.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Sick. We'll have to play it on Patreon.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Heck yeah, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Thank you. We need to do our own card game. Yeah. We need to take over the card game business. Really got to get in the card game business. Just do something that's exactly that. That's what we should have done. We should have pranked him and literally had a box that's exactly like that. Wrapping, but it's just ninjas or butterflies.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
What's the real debate there? I mean, I know it's a little old, but golly, dude, I honestly think for a while I was thinking gorilla simply pulls it off. I mean, doesn't pull it off.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Simply because I think it gets tuckered out, but Josh showed me some videos today and I'm really, and some stats like clarity though.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I think that's, no, I think it's, you have a field. It's like you, one gorilla and 100 men.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Go at it. I go the men. I think so too.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I just got stuck. I think I just got stuck. Yeah. Pineapple. Food. I'm hungry. Guys. Hello.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Jane had your beard and crippled you the other day. I'm like, let go, let go.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Maybe. I saw a video. I think all you have to do is just take out the eyes of the gorilla. And that's a huge advantage. Good luck, pal. I mean, I saw someone, like, there was two gorillas fighting, and one took a fistful of sand into the eye, and it literally, it just, you know, dismantled it, this whole gorilla. And so I think that's a strategy for sure.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
You can't choke that thing out. You have to have the crease of your elbow in front of them. There's not a chance you get to do it. There's no way.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Bro, did you see the teeth? Yeah, I went, ah. Dude, that could bite your head off. Yeah. That's the thing. It has so many, like the agility, the teeth, and the strength combined. It's a nightmare. And I want someone to make an actual cinematic movie about this. Cage match with it goes up the cage. You're done. Right. All right. Here's a new question. It can always go up.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
No, there's no gates. It's an open mall. 30 minutes. Could you survive 30 minutes? And its goal is to find you. It's going to find you and kill you. It knows if one of us is dying, one of them is leaving alive. That's it. It'll find you and it'll know. Yeah, I'm dead.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Did I hide out in a hot topic or something? 30 minutes is too long. That thing's going to find you within 30.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I'm going to go to a... What's the lowest amount you would take? 10 minutes? Do you think you'd survive 10?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I'm saying the scream in an empty mall would be so scary.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Back away, yeah. Just do one. Dude, no. That would be like minute 25. I'd be sweating so profusely.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
When did you take it out?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
That's one gulp you're done. If I die a week in the freezing cold, not a chance. You're dying over days, and it's going to be terrible.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah. While you're waiting, getting your scuba gear, you're just like, by the way, there's a presentation of all the things that are swimming around you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Dude, those things are giant.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
That's what I'm saying, dude. Dude, their teeth are apparently so disgusting and full of bacteria that if you get bit, you're almost dead within the day. No way. Because it just feeds that quickly into your system. It's crazy. Their teeth are...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
You know what I'm saying? I mean, what I heard, I don't know a news source is reliable nowadays, but what I heard, you pulled your name out already after they named Leo. They named Leo. They said you were trying to save face or something.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Oh, my goodness, yes. I didn't know that's what it was.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
hairy man look at the video i just sent this is the one yeah dude this is so scary they're like beating the dude on the back of the head the husband is the one holding on to the lady oh my gosh it's like five people there's people all around too it's not like in a dark alley this is why the second and it's like a company truck van And the dude, the scream the guy gives out is so scary.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Dude, it's heart-wrenching.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
It's gut-wrenching. Both? Yeah, both, I guess. I don't know. Brain-wrenching.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
You're not resentful at all.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
You get it. Yeah, I get it. I was just reminded of a story. Have you ever heard of that David Spade tell the story of how his assistant tried to kill him in his sleep?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Dude, I have heard this story. He tells it. It's crazy. An assistant he had for years and trusted and loved. Literally just like David's in his room sleeping. And he wakes up and he hears this guy coming in. And I think he, I can't remember if he had a gun or something, but he was like, he was trying to just trying to kill him in his sleep. And they had to call the police.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
And I think he went to prison and stuff. It's wild. That's insane. I know. Like that's, I don't know how that happens. That's so scary.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Big time.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
no he's like how do you how do you come upon this idea of like we're gonna just kidnap russell crowe and he's like he's just sitting down paying the bills like i have no idea how we're gonna play this visa bill honey wait a second yes i do we're getting crowe like just you're gonna hold him for ransom like this is crazy i don't know the thought process that goes behind this
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
That's the most logical thing. It's like we're going to kidnap Russell Crowe and hold him for ransom.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
You're going to rob the M&M factory? How is this going to make us any money? Just something I'm thinking about. What, a guy can't have ideas?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Didn't all volcanoes start as underwater volcanoes?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Is this 100% legit?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
That's crazy, man. Like, don't worry. How far off the California coast is it? I don't know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
You guys want to snorkel there?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
And they said now in the summertime? Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Gosh, man, that's crazy. Do you see that surveillance video of literal, like, the fault line shifting?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
And I'm like, imagine if that happened over that area or in Yellowstone, where it's just out of nowhere. Yeah. It's like things are gone. Yeah. Wyoming is gone. Everything's gone.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah. I mean, you have to be.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
He goes, you're cheating on live television to millions of people for the rest of history.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah, it's pretty. So they're working not so specifically for the teams. Obviously, that comes down. But they're thinking, what's the best for the association?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
And I know Dallas's trade came out of nowhere.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
After Cuban got rid of the franchise. And I think, I mean, the fan base was so mad. This was the only way to save it, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
yeah you know or fame and for corruption uh what is ever money or fame corrupted somebody no that's a good point yeah you're right uh speaking of corruption though we gotta go anywhere ladies and gentlemen we are going on tour
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Let's go. Listen, if you go to FloridaTorda.com, it's right here. Go there. Secure your ticket now because guess what? They're going fast. They will fill up. I promise you. We know you guys want to see it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
cats step around things as they walk through yep yeah and how they never miss and they never look back It's crazy. Like, it's kind of nuts. I mean, think about it. I would have never looked back. That's what I'm saying. I mean, we have to look down and make sure everyone's not suffering. They just know. They just know. How do they do that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Arcade Pirates is playing for some reason. When you think of that song, what movie do you think of?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Insane. It's like 10 feet tall standing up.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
And it looked like it was 20 feet tall. Those things are aggressive, aren't they?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Talking about Benville, Arkansas?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Mark Lohr.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah, I mean, this is a trend happening in Texas, isn't it? People buying like big lots of land and moving a bunch of people onto it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
In Florida?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
He's actually tied in with Walmart. Like he's. He was the ex-CEO.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
The desert in Texas, though.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Dude, I went through a phase where I just paid through the Walmart app. And I'm like, this is too much work. But yeah, it's crazy they don't have tap and pay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I think all time, though, they didn't have great value at the very beginning of Walmart. Wow.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
What if it was a food? Eggs.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah, it's bananas. Bananas, dude. That totally checks. I've seen two people post on TikTok how they feel almost guilty every time they go to a store and look to go to purchase bananas thinking of the Latin culture and South American culture and everything like that that's gone wrong. I feel like there's just like, yeah, there's a darkness around it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
banana one's like super long one's like I'm like this is wrong so I buy my bananas at Publix now I usually for somebody who doesn't like bananas is very passionate about bananas very particular about their bananas I also just love picturing you like at like the counter in the kitchen like with your head down in your hands like your head in your hands and you're just the wife and the kids are just passing by like daddy's just going through an existential crisis like this is your midlife crisis
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Like you just triggered something. He's been studying you for years, but then he asked like it's like that. It's like it's not your fault kind of thing. Let's go back.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I'm Jim. You're not that guy. Jesus Christ. I can't believe we have the Pope in the house today.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I don't think this is normal. I don't think this is sold at stores. I think you were being poisoned. I think you were being poisoned slowly, dude. I've never heard of this in my life.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
What a great day. We'll run her up, Pope.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, my mom would make it in the back room, and she'd put them in Ziploc baggies, and yeah, we just... I was like, what?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
It's not like Kellogg's.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
You're drinking Slim Fast as a kid? A banana to Slim Fast?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
That can be caused.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
It's in my... Like if they were faking your childhood, they would have just... Same shirt. They didn't even bother to change the shirt.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
You just have a buzz cut in the last one. This is very elaborate.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I think he prepared something. Did you prepare something? I think it was a conspiracy. Do you have a question? I don't have a question. No, I just did. Oh!
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
That's weird. It looks tall. I don't know. It's tough to see it for sure. Okay. I'm chasing after that thing, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I've seen this. Are you kidding me? Dude, that looks like an orangutan. That's legit. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. That is the scariest thing I've ever seen. That would be. That's the photo. Dude, chills. That does look like the Jack Link's Sasquatch.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
you know like from far away yeah yeah yeah there's so many like things that we've shared on here that like like we looked up and a lot of the times it's kind of like 50 50 debunked or whatever i'm looking up this one right now 100 has not been debunked that photo like that photo and a lot of people are saying experts like they're like this they're like i work with wildlife this looks like a real animal like they're like just everything about yeah yeah reads as a real animal
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
And 2000 having a photo like that, that's so scary.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah, he's got like teeth. Yeah, he looks like bottom teeth that come out. So he's looking up.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
But all the depictions of Bigfoot, there's been a lot that look like that, like with the hair that come like that. So that's interesting. That's a Chewbacca, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Is it? It's a picture. Yeah. Is it? Oh, it looks like big. Yeah. Gorilla hands like a big foot.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I'm telling you, when I was in Ocala National Forest, I still it literally every time I think about it and it still gives me the heebie jeebies. Yeah. There's something weird, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
A more rare and elusive animals. Yeah. You're not going to be, obviously you're not going to be finding those things.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah, she spent the past two years complaining about her apples to her neighbors just to build a rapport. You said you dummy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Like, you know how they can call in aliens without one place? They, like, have those tones and stuff, frequencies, and they bring in UFOs. What if they were, what if there's something to deter them as well? Oh, yeah. Like a frequency that, like, okay, we don't want anyone seeing us. 5G towers. Yeah. Well, I mean, who knows?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Who knows?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah. Kind of what that would look like in our reality. Oh, cool. Yeah. I love that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
That is how that's an eerie sight. Yeah. Walking those steps would be very, very. Yeah. Gosh, I'm visualizing it now. That's such a frightening image.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
can i just do one big roll call or something just everyone just pause for five minutes do a quick roll call andy give a count andy what everyone's like just how many people say here yeah market present that's actually that's actually insane to think about because they're talking about like reproductive downfall and like populations are dwindling
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I literally thought there would be someone every week that was their job to go out there and change it. How do they know that we're just visiting? I was trying to really think this doesn't make sense. This is a very specific number.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Give me your most everyone. Every city sign should have the most famous person, good or bad. Like, you know, it's like it's like home of Magic Johnson. And it's like the next town over the home of Ted Bundy. And it's like, you know, like you got to you got to say it. You have got to be honest. Everyone has to vote for their most famous person. Yeah. Go ahead with it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Did you hear about this? The national city? There's three national park cities in the world. It's one city I have no idea how to pronounce. London and then Chattanooga, Tennessee. It's official.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
No, I mean, yeah. What better way to deter people from messing around in certain areas? You know, if you have a restricted area within a national park, it's a federal thing. You can't do anything about it. Yeah. It's international at this point, I feel like. Yeah. I mean, like it's in that category with London and not another city. Have you heard about this? The George H.W.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Bush, she was an assistant in the White House.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
She was working, not even an assistant. She had a real different role. Part of the administration. Yeah, part of the administration. But she came out 100% claims like there are underground cities. Like that they've built four times of mass extinction or whatever. Really?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
And I wonder if all, like, I mean, it's confirmed. This girl was, it was a legit interview. Like, this, like, lady's going out there. And I wonder if there is an international alliance with, like, people like China, people like Russia. Like, hey, we're all doing this. So we can all prep for, you know, this type of event. So we will help each other out.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
So that's where that debt comes from, that, you know, those conversations.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Dr. Evil, you wouldn't be saying Chattanooga.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Temecula, I feel like is a really, kind of like it's a good, bad. Temecula? Temecula.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Chattanooga, man. Who would have thought? It's beautiful, but now it's probably going to be a lot more expensive to live there now.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Close your eyes. We're going to try to clap at the exact same time. I'm going to count down, and then you just wait, and you clap when it's ready, okay? Close your eyes. If you count, then we'll win. I'm going to say three, two, one, and then that's when the time starts, and you just feel it out.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
That would be awesome.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Just to live it out. You're like, you can't do that, honey, but I'll let you dress up one time a year.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
firing it in the minivan. I would say the same thing for tasers. Tasers are not most of the time not being used for actual crime prevention. It's mostly right. Dude, have you ever felt this?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Can I'll reach out to the police department and see if we could do it because I honestly I think we awesome.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
What does that shoot you though, right? Like they actually go in your body? Was it the... No.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Like police officers? What? Tasers? They legit, they shoot confetti. Like tiny, almost like microscopic glitter that have their code, like an actual code or a number that matches their gun. So that way they know whoever shot off the taser.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I was watching the slow-mo guys on YouTube, and they're like, let's see a taser enter someone's back, and it completely took me by surprise because it went off, and then suddenly just confetti. It's beautiful. And they're like, you're probably wondering what those are. It's like little tiny codes on there. That's wild.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
The Pope has to feel fabulous. The glitter stuff is so weird. It is weird. They wouldn't tell us who their main buyer was. Why? They wouldn't say it. They would be like, we can't tell you, but you would be surprised. I'm like, what? What does that mean?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
It blocks you out and completely ghosts you. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Nope. You don't get it. I get that. The spheres are scary to me. Yeah. Because I just don't know how they're working. It's unlike any other flying object that we've ever had. It's always been winged creatures or something. Now we have just a ball that's flying thousands of miles per hour, stopping on a dime without making noise.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Oh, casting my spell on you. That's what it says. This ooga booga is casting its spell on us, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
There's a Crash Bandicoot racing. That wooden guy, the plank, the feather guy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I, I've heard, um, that every bad voice, like if you're trying to do an imitation and it's terrible, he's like the guy. Um, and what was his name? Uh, Looney Tunes guy, Mel, Mel block. Yeah. He said every failed impression is just a new voice. That's it. Anytime you try to do somebody's impressions, like that's just a new voice right there. Right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
And we're going to play Bible is funny real quick. That'd be fun too.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Do we have an announcement for these people though? We do. We did do an ad for it. Do you remember we did the ad for it? And we probably mentioned it at the very beginning too. So people are going to be pretty excited about the Florida.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Guys, we are going on tour. You know about this already, but please buy your tickets. Go to FloridaTour.com. It's in the bio. We just bought the domain, so you got to go to that website. We're going Tampa and Orlando, maybe even more.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
first live event with ninjas or butterflies and the bible is funny baby absolutely it's gonna be an absolute blast so make sure go get your tickets now because we're hoping to sell out we're hoping to sell out and it's gonna be a lot of fun and also if you need merch go to sundaycoolswag.com we got some new merch this one this is my favorite shirt right now selling yep new one collegiate look look at that lizard university a lot of your clinton is an alumni just kidding
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
All right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Hey. Go follow Anthony. All that stuff is in the description. Check it out.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Nope. No, we didn't.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Thank you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Don't clap at one. Okay. Just wait. That's when it starts. Three, two, one.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Wow. It's just not quite what you're used to seeing over there, huh? Usually your bride's sitting on that couch.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I'll do it one more time.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Oh, you didn't count down. Okay, I'll count down. Three, two, one.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
And a lot of the comments are saying we're live right now and they're saying you look a lot like him and that you might even condone this guy's work.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Interesting, because it looks like we have here... Yeah. ...information that you are in cahoots with a man named... Antony Russo.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Oh, now it's coming back.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Yeah. Count me and Josh down.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
And hey, Josh, did you hear about that billionaire that's building a utopia in the desert somewhere? And guess what? You're not invited. Also, Walmart's involved?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
I know what you're talking about.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Interesting. So you would agree that the Bible is funny sometimes.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Judges 19.29, he took a knife and cut his concubine limb by limb into 12 parts. That doesn't sound very funny, now does it?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
143 - Apocalyptic Volcano, Billionaires Utopia, & The Florida Skunk Ape
Say a random word and then we got to find the right word.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
Oh my gosh. Only if you want to.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
Stickers! Stickers!
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
It's going to be real.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
No more sushi for me. Well, there goes sushi.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
Why did you release this song?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
Peep, peep, peep. Peep, peep, peep.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
What are you, jigsaw? I do it to myself.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
I know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
I don't have TikTok.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
We need Titanic 2. Back from the depths. Jack?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
134 - Alien Nukes, Ancient Libraries, & The Dark Story of Ruby Franke
We got there.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Cool.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yes, that is cool.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
No, it's just your mind.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
121 - The Drones Have Been Here Before, Telepathy, and New Nuclear Tech
Starling. Sorry, Starling.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Welcome back to Ninjas Are Butterflies. Just this. This just in. Hall of Worth is real and NASA knows about it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Little confidence on that one. Should we talk about this?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
It's refreshing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Chicken pickle glaze sandwich. That sounds so good.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
super pickly on the after uh aftertaste see i get opposite i got a lot of pickle first and then a lot of lemonade after that's i get the opposite of that i get more pickle in the front and on the back with a lemon in the middle i just you just asked for pickle lemonade with no lemonade
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, it's great. Super refreshing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
And we're also sponsored by Popeyes, so go to popeyes.com forward slash ninjas are butterflies. Get your next meal for free.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Who invited Mrs. Fun over there? Yeah, my cholesterol is crazy. How crazy? You know what my remedy to that is? What's that? I've never dealt with my cholesterol, never had problems with my cholesterol because I don't know about it. I don't go to a doctor for it. And so if you don't know about it, you don't have those problems. I think that's the right way to do things.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
If she would have never said anything about your cholesterol, you would have had the most wonderful day. Now you're wondering, am I going to die tomorrow? Yeah. Lily, what the heck?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
warren buffett one of the world's most well-known investors also has one probably donald trump too he loves mcdonald's probably um no he pays full price this is the new illuminati probably probably i mean it's got to mean something right yeah they're hiding it in plain sight why are they giving it to those people that are so rich though you know
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That was Sweeney Todd, right? When they had meat pies? Yeah, those Gumby. Those Gumby. Known cannibalists.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
No, I don't think so. I think they met at a buffet one time. Any song? Five o'clock somewhere. It doesn't relate. Margaritaville, am I right? Dude, there's no way he didn't have it. I want to look it up. I want to know what time Jimmy Buffett had his funeral at. Because you know it had to be five o'clock. I would hope so. Golly, that'd be... That'd be just icing on the cake, right? Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
You've seen him in Jurassic Park World. He was a cameo for that. No, he was. They were filming and it was like whenever the dinosaurs got out and there was a bunch of tourists eating it like that outside dining and you can see him running and he grabs his two margaritas and starts running. There's just a tiny clip of it. Super funny.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Really?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Because it's super bad for you to sleep with your mouth open. Apparently. For your teeth, everything.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I always wake up. It helps me fall asleep faster, I feel like. Do you use it every night? Not every night. Maybe like two or three times. I don't know. But I wake up worth it. It just stuck on me somewhere at the end of the night. It doesn't stay on. I don't think I got the toughest brand. Did you get the black one? Yeah. Yeah, those are probably a lot better. But it's tough with a beard, too.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That's what I was wondering. Yeah, it's terrible. Anyways, Mouth Tape. Sorry to response. MouthTape.com.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Crazy stuff, y'all. Crazy stuff. Dude, that's wild. Hey, let's talk about that dire wolf.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
How crazy is that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. It was as soon as we got done with the pod, it got released. The dire wolf.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
10,000 years.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Is it like 99.9% a dire wolf?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
They had to rebuild the DNA chemical makeup, all that stuff. I don't even know the right terminology, but they had to do it piece by piece, the whole thing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
It's crazy. And why did we pick the dire wolf first?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
We're working on a lot of stuff, though. Yeah, but they obviously prioritized that one.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Are these going out in the wild? I don't know. This is kind of, dude, dying by, like, an extinct animal. That's kind of the way to go. I mean, yeah, that would be great. I mean, if I just get, like, tackled.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. It does make you just think about like what do extinct animals, like what are they going to do to our climate? Like there's got to be something, right? They're like the ecosystem. There's got to be some type of effect they're going to have that we don't expect. Yeah. And it's like that's our own fault at that point. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's stuff that we're just messing with.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Oh, yeah. Big time. Yeah. What else are you going to do? The office or something.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
We're going to pass on this one. Dude, I love county fairs, though. I don't know what it is about my childhood that I experienced a county fair. I love it. The lights at night, the smells, the food. The food's always great, too.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
It was very accurate. Yeah, everyone knows that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I didn't shoot any more birds. Dude, I guarantee it. And he's in therapy right now. There's no way. It's like this homeless man came up to me and gutted a fish and told me to eat it. I tried to make it as graphic as possible.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That's what the kids' perspective, for sure.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
What? What's that? Yeah, dude. The monoliths?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Probably not. I'm sending him to our group chat right now. Pretty incredible. Tim Albrino. We know Tim Albrino is watching this. We absolutely do. Tim, do you fart? He had a big podcast that dropped this week.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Gosh dang it. No. Dang it. It's a hard time. Yeah, look at these.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
So cool. You know Michael Knowles? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he got on his show. Dude, tell me that's not Indiana Jones. Yeah, that's pretty crazy. Yeah, I know. It's crazy. Tim Elroy is a man. We know him. He's got to start his own podcast, dude. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Dude, after the Funhouse, Kelsey brought to my attention... We went through the really big fun house, and I was just having a blast. It's just the best. The kids are having so much fun. And then we get out, and Kelsey's like, that whole thing was so sticky. And I thought about it, and I thought about how my hands felt, and I thought about literally sensorily just walking through this.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
He's got to, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
He said what you can do is intro for him. That's right. That's right. That's right. Oh, that's cool. We just need to create it so we give him a motivation like now you have to start a podcast. Yeah. I just scared myself because I actually put the mic to my mouth.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
So neat.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That sounds so cool. And that's a cool thing. Like, do you think they ever had a time back then where they can communicate with other people across? I think so.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. Kind of like that same thing. I wonder if there was any bodies or anything like that. Yeah, I don't know. Just the instant heat kind of thing that we talked about.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. It's nuts. Dude, I watched the episode of Survivor when they stayed in the Amazon. And they stay out there for 40 days. And these full-grown adults who have a whole team are dying. And it just makes me think of the lost children. And it just shows how spooky it is out there, dude. The fact that they survived out there as kids.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Oh, no, it's called Jungle, right? Yeah. Yeah, I haven't seen it. That's intense. Really? Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Polter.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
And I was like, it was. So it's like, even the bathrooms there, you don't feel are the best. And so you just don't feel great that I'm eating afterwards. I'm like, oh, no. This is terrible.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Dude, I was laying in bed last night. I had Chamber Secrets on, so I literally put it on and then I fall asleep, but I just woke up to the funniest line just because, and I'll be here holding the door.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
at the beginning i'll be here waiting at holding the door i can't remember how exactly it's said but it's just every line in that movie is so fun and i'll be in my room acting like i don't exist i don't know what he says something like that's perfect um speaking of deadly dudley
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. Depressing. So sad. But that is crazy. Like that. Yeah, dude. There's something like about that. It's just the human spirit.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
But at times like that, you never know how you're going to react. I would have probably ran. I mean, you always have to think about what you were on Titanic. Like, what would you do? That'd be crazy. Probably be. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. Yeah. You'd be pushing women and children out of the way. Give me that door. Just grab the gun. You'd be like that. What is that? What was his name? The antagonist in that movie?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. Billy Zane. Billy Zane.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I can't remember. Um, Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to find a list of movies that like, because it's hard because Demi's getting like, she's almost 10. Yeah. So it's like, there's certain movies that a kid couldn't watch. But then there's now I'm like thinking like, okay, what's a 10? What are some of those movies that I can start showing?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
$16 corn dog. Korean corn dog.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I think it's hard for her, though. It's hard for you. It's your own hurdle. She won't even watch Harry Potter right now. Oh, is it too scary? No, it's just like I don't think it interests her. I don't think she sees... She hasn't seen enough of it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, I can't get into Lord of the Rings as much. I appreciate it. I love it. I'll sleep to Hong Kong because I really do believe they just have the best vibe ever.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
aragon sam mary pippin yeah like this comes in and he just goes that's great it's so funny see that's that would be funny because that would be a real life problem there would be a point where you're like we've known each other too long yeah i don't know cross middle earth for you it's like i don't know who you are you're trying to listen to conversations of like oh people over he's like saying his name or something like
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
No, no, okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
No, it's the best. I love county fair food, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Applying for Club 33. They are now advertising. Disney's now advertising Club 33 for the first time ever.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That'd be kind of cool to go into Club 33. Dude, we got to infiltrate. We got to infiltrate, dude. We got to get the glasses, the Ray-Ban glasses. Yeah. Go in there. Find the tunnels.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Universal, dude, the Harry Potter, the Ministry of Magic. Don't even get me started. I cannot wait. Have you seen it, Andrew?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That's what I'm saying. It will be tough.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
There's so much to do with Disney, especially if you're doing homeschooling or if you're doing a lot of time at home. It's amazing. For learning everything.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Oh, yeah, totally. They're truly the best. Whenever I saw Demi and Zola's face just seeing the 18-inch hot corn dog just on a stick, they were just blown away. They just have so much fun with that stuff. You left out that detail. No, it wasn't that big. Ours? No, we got plain ones.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
She just runs back at the end of the day. She probably would do great.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
But who wants to? Cremation.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yep. That meme says, I want my body. When I die, I want to be spread across Disneyland, but I don't want to be cremated.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
The club in the Dominican.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Do it now.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. Dude, it's so sick. I mean, like, it's sudden. Like, you're not expecting that. Yeah. That's the thing. I can't go anywhere nowadays without paranoia.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, we can't, Lil. We can't do anything fun all summer. Yeah. We just got to stay home. Sorry. Just be in the yard because there's no roof. We're sleeping in a tent. Yeah. We're not going to do it anywhere. Lily. What? Bring down the roof.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
People died.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Which they have a sign that says $5, corn dogs, tacos. But it's like, no, we have things that are $4 or $5. Yeah. We also have corn dogs, tacos, and all that. And I'm like, you are playing people.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
No, I don't.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, evening. Usually when I go.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I don't know where people fall in it. People are really upset that people use it in film and stuff, but it's like, are there any laws on it? Is there any rules? It's frowned upon because it's free.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Nice. Maybe Superman has two pinkies. He is an alien. Six fingers. Maybe that's literally where he gets his power.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Every single person I saw on the line was just like, but I thought that was. And he's like, nope, look right here. And it's like small menu. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Something that would give us mental performance, energy, that would be a clean energy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
What is that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
What is this? Magic mind? Reclaim your brain? Whoa. What does that mean? Whoa. That means I've probably been drinking a lot of like unclean energy stuff. Like a lot of just energy drinks and self.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
You know that's terrible for your body too. It's not good for my body at all. But now I have magic mind.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Thank you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Ask the Magic Mind genie for one more thing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I think I'm the only one that did it, so I think I'm the odd man out at this point. Like a CIA. Ferris wheel. CIA. That's me remote viewing. Andy, tell us where you were.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Oh, that's true.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
You thought about it too much. You hesitated.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That's all them, dude. And it's Kelsey, for sure. They're just so much fun. Literally nothing to do with Andy. Literally nothing to do with me. I feel like they are taking on 100% their mom's character, and it's just such a... They're so fun.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That's what you sound like. Move on. Good thing close counts. This ain't horseshoes. Yeah. Horseshoes, if you get close.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Horse juice. You throw multiple.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
There's four involved. That's brutal.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
We made them for them.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That's why I take my dog out on the concrete.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Stella would kill me if I tried.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
They also got the mobile groomers. They're not bad price as well. They literally just have a van. They pull up to your house and then you just bring them out. Boom.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
What's the question?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Good question. That is good, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I'll go first. andrew's bathroom at the back of the house with a tiny toilet yeah really that the washing the washing dryer it's cozy it's hot it's a built-in squatty potty it's it's down on the ground i didn't know it existed there for years i was over to your house forever i don't i don't know if i think it was when we started tiling your bathroom is that's when i realized you had a bathroom
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Just put it in the front yard. Put some plants in it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, they're so fun.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. So that's not the perfect bathroom then.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Oh, the size? It's small. I was thinking like vibe of like the overall bathroom.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I don't know why I have one in my mind though. Where did we go? We went on a trip recently and it was in... Was it the Asian restaurant? Yes! That was mine!
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Wait, where? That's so funny. What's the name of that place? I took a picture. I did too.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
What?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
It was like dark green tiling, I think, but it was really dark in there and it was like a... It was almost like that color on the neon light right behind you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, but it was really cool. That's so funny.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Please have us take a picture of you watching ninjas and butterflies in the bathroom. Chase knows the name for sure. Was it in Atlanta? Yeah, I think it's like a chain. Was it Atlanta? I don't think it was Atlanta.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, because I bought wristbands for them. I was like, we just need to pinch pennies a little bit more. And so I was like, we'll just get one for you. And it was just a daddy-daughter thing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, I took a picture for the girls because we were gone. Yeah. That's the color scheme of it. It was perfect. I'm trying to find a picture. I don't know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That's a good one.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. That's so funny. It was really cool. It was so cool. It was very like, cause it was like soundproof too. Like as soon as you went in there, literally no sound at all.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, for sure.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Where was that, dude? That's so funny.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I love it. I'll do that too. Yeah, that's pretty fun. That's hilarious. Very good. Thanks. Good question.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I don't want to poop. All about the poops, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Oh, Patreon.com. Butterflies?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Like Andy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Dude, I'm literally six feet tall.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
So it's this tiny little ride. It takes like 30 seconds. But if you go in this, like, I don't even know where you go into. Okay, so she's not wandering. She's like on a thing. No, yeah, I'm with her. And so Demi wants to go really bad.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Oh! Dude. That belly button came in for a sucker punch, dude. Oh, dude, I hate that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I hate belly buttons. Okay. Just a fossilized umbilical cord inside of his belly button.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Well, first of all. Rude. Bold of you to assume.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
It does. It's wild. Yeah, it's just flat, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Dude, I remember the trailers. I never watched the show, but I remember the trailers were like, this is going to be the most life-changing show in the world.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
And I'm like, can I go with... I'll hold like... they both have wristbands. I don't. And they're like, he's like, if you don't have a wristband, I'm like, I'm their parent. No one else is in line, bro. Just let me ride. He's a cat. And so I was like, okay, we can't. And I was like, do you want to go by yourself? And she says, yes. And I said, okay, if you get scared, just close your eyes.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That's so scary. Dude, they start militarizing that somehow in war. Put an Aztec death whistle in front of a missile.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I just put a bunch of harmonicas.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Every 20 minutes or so. You don't ever get the vibe just to blow off a couple fireworks every 20 minutes?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Well, to be fair, you guys did it like two hours before sunset. It's like, we could see everything. I mean, I didn't care, but it's like, if the kids are going to see fireworks, they're not going to see them. No, it's true. Do you guys hear it?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, you guys were hosting the party at your place, and you just had, like, small children.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Really?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Whenever they started dropping all their chemicals in the sky. Right. To make the sense.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
And, uh, she, she came out and it was like longer than 30 seconds of my mind. Cause I was like, I was like, Oh no, I can't even see my child at a carnival. Yeah. So we're doing it. She comes out and she looks at me smiling. I was like, was it OK? She's like, it was scary. I closed my eyes like in the first 20 seconds. I was like, oh, I'm so good. I'll talk to mommy about this.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. That didn't have an explanation for it. And we still don't, right? Yeah. I mean, what are the reasons they gave? They gave just that. There's no confirmation what exactly it was, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. Golly, man, all the stuff that's happening in the world right now. And then we have something like that. I mean, we had all those drones and we have this back to back.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. Then when the craziest thing that we'd in like four years ago, the craziest thing that we knew about was that pilot that dropped, like had that footage. Yeah. And now all of this is just normal. It's just normal. We're in a rigged system, my friend. We died on the way back from Miami. That's just the truth of it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I mean, you're just stuck here. Dude, what's up with the Spiral Zone?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, and it's just, I mean, if there's no logical explanation, I guess I just got to do more research into it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
It does look like it though, huh?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I think they're doing Club 33 only because they have something more exclusive. They don't want anyone to know about now. Because now Club 33 is out.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I was like, why would I do this?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That's like we're never going to know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Oh, yeah. But I'm saying like it's just because people will say, of course, there's not nothing there. Like you just go. People have gone there. It's like, well, we don't know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, we went last night. It was not. I mean, I can imagine as a kid, it's terrifying. Zola's never been in like a haunted house or anything like that. Or she is like big scary movie. So when she walked through, when she went through, I thought it was pretty crazy. But it was pretty dull for the most part. I was like, oh, this is pretty lame.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
But it sounds like the little green children. Yeah, I know. That's what I thought about as a green kid. Yeah, dude. Yeah. That literally backs up that story. That's so fun to think about. A giant hole that has a whole different world. I mean, yeah, dude. That's crazy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Get a hold of yourself, dude. He's sick. That's scary, man. He gets emotional about Hollywood. He starts crying. Dude, that's wild. Isn't that insane?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
All of those pictures. It's like... One from 1600s. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, that's what I'm looking at. That's crazy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Let's do it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
all of the people who are disappearing they're just finding a better life and staying what if it is one of those things where we just have like a timetable to get off the planet like the people in the middle of the earth are like you can stay here but you need to leave like so it's like that's why we're trying to get off so much so fast yeah like if i don't know that'd be crazy are they yeah i don't it's all i'm just saying like sci-fi so the possibility of sci-fi movies right now oh my gosh
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
And the sightings. Yeah. So it's just centered around those types of moments. Yeah. I wonder when the next one's going to go off and what that's going to look like. Cause that's going to be crazy. If that's true. It's like the patterns will match up. Yeah. One drops and it's like, look in the sky. It's weird. Scary.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I don't think nuclear bombs exist. I think Japan just did that. I think it just happened.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
So that's a weird connection too. Maybe because we pervert it and maybe there is a good way to use this type of energy just not for evil like we turn it into. Do they refer to themselves as man? Do what?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
It's scary. Yeah. I don't know. I just want to interact with an alien. That's all I'm asking for. I want to see something. Because we talk about it all the time and I'm just like... Do you ever pray about it? Like literally just like... Do you ever just like talk, like just talking? Because sometimes I'll be outside and I'll just be by myself. Yeah, I'll do that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Dude, there's, believe it or not, talk about one of my old jobs. I literally did. Me and Kelsey literally would drive two and a half hours to go. My uncle, he had this place in town. It was like a city sponsored thing. And he was amazing. He's incredible, Frank. And he, with a ton of help, just built this huge haunted house. And we would go there on the weekends and just work.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I'll just be like... I just want to see something. I'm like, yeah, just... I'm like, it's only you and me. But then I think God's like, but you're afraid. He says, I've seen the future. You poop your pants. It's really embarrassing. Let's not go down this road. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Get back to that. It's like, this is y'all's business. Just take care of your country. Who cares about tariffs?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
It does. Wasn't it funny in Mickey 17, the name of the ship? You remember what it was called? No, what? It was like Nephilim.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, it literally sounded just like someone trying to pronounce Nephilim. Yeah. It's super funny. I was like, that's not by accident. Speaking of being controlled... Who's controlled? I'm not controlled.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
And it was just amazing. That's literally what me and Kelsey did before kids. We just, on the way, we were like, hey, you want to go do a haunted house? We got paid for a little bit, free food.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Interesting.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
You got to keep it all in the blood. What else? I mean, what other options do they have?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Shout out Chanute, Kansas. Chanute. Hey, you want a shanong?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Seems like a rule that should be not broken.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
We can do that. That sounds right up our alley, actually. Yeah. Lullaby. Lullaby.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Okay. Like how? She just talks. Talks and talks. Oh, that's the best. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
No matter what.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Carolinas as well.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That's the bone they're throwing you so you don't throw a fit.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yep. Top of the dome.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. I said, as soon as you're done paying off your home, you shouldn't have to do anymore. That maybe gives you a little more incentive to pay it off early. Yeah. But it's like,
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
afterwards it's yours it's not yours it's nothing is legally ours and i'm just speculating with the desantis with the developer stuff what do you mean for entertainment purposes yeah but it's true that they're they're the board is developers right for the fwc yeah fwc yeah i mean so but you're seeing the agenda you know where the money goes like it's not a benefit it's a it's a blatant conflict of interest yeah it's insane
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, I mean, there's implication there enough. You could pass that in court. That's enough to convince a jury. That's so scary, dude. Also, developers, get out of Florida!
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, especially when you have all these abandoned places all around, and now it's becoming more crowded.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That's the generational wealth. It's like they've learned to... you know, shrink the lifespan of all this stuff that they're selling to us. So that then people later on can still have money because they know they're going to need this because of like, they're creating, it's just, it's what a George Carlin, it's a big game and we're not in it.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Andrew. Callaghan. Yeah, he did an excellent. He did a great breakdown of it.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. He's incredible. I think it's just, I mean, no matter Republican or Democrat, that's just not a good vibe you want. And I don't like, it's cool. It's kind of like the Avengers. Like it's really neat to go and see all of your favorite people in one area. But it's like, in reality, it's like, this is cheap entertainment. It's like, and that's what Trump was like doing. Like, he was like,
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
The people of the American people don't want to just see like, let's actually see you caring for other people that aren't richer than you. You know, like that's like this is just seems like pandering. Yeah.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
With six-fingered hands and glowing eyes And a Nephilim can survive Nephilim can survive They can crush a tree with one bare hand They once ruled over every land They carved the stones that we can't explain, built towers high before the rain.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
No. Cause you got, there's promises to be kept, you know, there's such, there's such darkness.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
That's what I was just thinking about, dude, that like, it should be coming up. Isn't he starting it this year? I think this year. Yeah. I just, uh, as believers, I hope it's going to be great because it's gonna be like in every state, right? Like there's gonna be something.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Mexico's chill.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Can we live with Canadians? We can. Don't punch me.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
No. No, that's the thing. I hate the Christian outrage. Anytime a movie or something makes fun of us, it's like, can we quit expecting this world to act Christian? And it's also nothing new.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
They're doing what they want. They're doing what their flesh is telling. And it's like we all do it. We all fall into it. We all have these urges to do whatever we want. And that's just not what we're supposed to do.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. He said it first, I think, but, yeah. What is it? I don't think we've talked about the whistleblower, the AI whistleblower on the… No.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
This is crazy low. Okay, I'm buckling up. You want to say it? No, well, I'll just, I'll lead into a couple months ago. I talked about a AI whistleblower that was just coming out and he was through open AI. Yeah. Through open AI was basically saying they're doing a lot of shady stuff. It was basically, um, what's his name? Who ran off to Russia? The CIA. Golly, what's his name?
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Um, he's no Edward Snowden. Edward Snowden. It's basically kind of like what he's doing. He's just like seeing a lot of stuff. And then, yeah. And then we learned something about this week.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
We don't think that.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
There's not a chance. I don't know. But it's things like that. We just, like, because we mentioned that he had died. And then it's like, I mean, life moves on. That's tough. And then it's like, the parents are like, no, we got to get to the bottom of this. But like, we're just, what are we going to do about this information? Literally nothing.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
The American people are literally not going to care about this. That's the craziest thing. It blows my mind that we're seeing it right in front of us, and I feel like we're going to look back in the history books and be like, red flag, red flag, red flag, red flag. We just don't know what to do.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Jesus, come back.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
It's so scary. Scary. Scary.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Cool.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Got to get your belly full.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
You're crazy lightheaded.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
You should. I mean, it's wild. I'm just ignorant to the whole process. So I'm just like, I'm very wary.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I'm telling you. Just let me. I can do it. You don't need to spend money on it. I can do it for you right here on this table.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I'm going to puke. I just laid down immediately. Just one poke. Dude, your chi stinks. Just fart. Who cut the chi? Who cut the chi?
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, that's like an understanding of the anatomy that's like so beyond anything I could understand.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
We're continuing the conversation. So download the app today. You get discount codes on merch. You get extra behind the scenes footage. It's a great time. And you get these episodes days early. Yeah. Like sometimes they drop on the Monday before it comes out. Sometimes they drop on the Wednesday before. Yeah. And that's very rare, but it happens. But it's worth it. Yeah. Usually in the middle.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. Usually in the middle. Like a Tuesday. Like a Tuesday.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Sometimes it's a Thursday.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I think one time it was a Thursday. Yeah. That was one time. We'll talk about that time.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Nope. Oh. Yes, I did. I have a wearable.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Oh, yeah. I do remember that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Birds or Dinosaurs, SundayCoolSwag.com. We're dropping a new shirt every week for the next few weeks, so please check it out. They drop on Wednesdays, but just keep watching our social shows, and we'll take care of it.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Also, if you need custom apparel for you, your church, your group, your business, your friends, maybe you got a bachelorette trip going to Branson sometime soon, and you're Branson-bound.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Bachelorette and Branson. Buckle up. Listen, go to sundaycool.com. We work here. We print your shirts. We have a wonderful team that does that, builds the art for you. If you don't have anything, we got you. And we print it here. We send it out. We hug and kiss every single one. And so why wouldn't you want that, right?
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah, that was great. All right. All right, guys. Love you. See you on Patreon. See you on Patreon.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
The song took me. We jumped in way quicker than I thought. My mind wasn't ready. We were just so in that conversation. And then so I literally had like my heart started being so fast.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I'm going to mess up.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I can't imagine.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Everyone close your eyes.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Oh, geez. I didn't even realize. I forgot we were doing one. I forgot, too. Yeah. I mean, we can just move past it, but... No, let's do it. Yeah, we have time. Yeah, I mean, we want to respect our... We just started.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Why are you jumping around the question?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I don't get the sarcasm.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
If you had to rank them, like, in what order would you give the gifts? To the people in Germany, like, what groups of people?
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
First. Okay. Who's next?
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Children. All right. Well, this is a bummer. Yeah. Honestly, I don't. I thought we were just kind of being random, but it seems like she's being very specific to our German fans.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
And then next, the children? Watch it. And not to mention before, she said everywhere. So who knows if she meant that for the worldwide as well. The German phrase, das Gift.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
You know what problem she had at first? Tell me. The shipping problems. She was like, I'd love to poison all the people in Germany, but how would I ship it?
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah.
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138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
Yeah. While pinching pennies.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
It really does mean that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
138 - Hollow Earths Entrance Found, Ancient Spiral UFO, & The Dire Wolf
I'm fluent in German. I would know. Say something in German. You wouldn't understand, dude. You had to be there. That's a funny German joke, right? Everyone's laughing.
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125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
Well, well, well. Look who decided to show up.
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125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
I thought you had the trip to Barb- Gone to the girls trip in Barbados? Yeah. I thought so too. Until I found this. Where? Where did you find this? You know good and well where I found it. Where you hide all your other goodies. You went through my things.
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125 - Bankrupting Zuckerberg, Ancient Map Mystery & Finding Atlantis
I'll be sick. I can't believe you.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
No, I did. What'd you guys do? We went to Yalaha Bakery. Yalaha.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
It's crazy. Crazy, crazy. Absolutely wild. What were you going to say, Joshua? I was just going to say I saw someone online. They said they asked the Pope to be friends on Facebook and they denied their request.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
That's what he is.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
We'll see. We'll see.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Do you hear something spooky though?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Pope Leo the 13th. Okay. In 1884, Pope Leo XIII, he was, let's see.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Yeah, man. What would you choose? I would do something new. No, you can't. Yeah, you can't.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
It was crazy packed. I bet. It was so crowded. Lying out the door. I've never seen that place busy, but I imagine. Same. Yeah. And then we went to downtown Maduro. We went to the Salted Fry. How was that?
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
So Pope Leo XIII, in 1884, they're doing mass at the Vatican Chapel. And then all of a sudden he just froze. And they said that his face went like white as a ghost. And he just stood there. It looked like they said that he was just like... In terror for 10 minutes, just staying very still.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
But he said after he just received a vision and in this vision, there was two voices that were speaking to him. One being Jesus and one being Satan.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Cool. And this is how the conversation went. So he said the voice of Satan was like a guttural voice, and then the voice of Christ was very soft and calming. But he said in the guttural voice, the voice of Satan in his pride boasted to our Lord, quote, I can destroy your church. The gentle voice of the Lord said, you can? Then go ahead and do so.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Satan said, to do so, I need more time and more power. Then Jesus said, how much time and how much power? Satan said, 75 to 100 years and a greater power of those who will give themselves over to my service. Then God said, Jesus said, you have the time, you will have the power, do with them what you will. It's like a Job situation. Yeah.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Yeah. So that was the last Pope Leo got that vision.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
That's super weird.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Oof. Yeah. Wow.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Really?
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Okay. They're very nice there. Okay. Extremely nice. Compliments to the chef.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Dude, yeah, there's some weird stuff with the Italian Mafia and the Vatican. Really? I don't doubt it.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
It was Pope John Paul, the first John Paul in the 70s, I believe. He only reigned for like 30 days as Pope. And then mysteriously died. And they think it was foul play by the Italian Mafia.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Yeah. Crazy. Yeah.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Nothing good.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
But it was basically, there's like corruption with the Vatican bank working with the Italian mafia and Pope John Paul came in. It was basically like no more and like was cutting all this stuff. And then all of a sudden, 30 days later, he's dead. Very weird.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Yeah. Complimenting the chef as a person, not his food. Two orders of fries in three drinks was over $40.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
And now we got a pope from Chicago. Close ties to the Italian mafia. Talk to me.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Yeah. Speaking of being not blessed. Yeah. Remember we talked about during our live thing the demons possessing AI. Oh gosh. Yes. Have you heard this new thing happening? It's the freakiest thing ever. What? It's so scary. What is it? All right. So chat.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
It's so scary. I know. I don't know, though. Chat GBT users are developing bizarre delusions. What? So listen to this. So one man claimed AI helped him, quote, recover childhood memories that experts say never happened. Another began to worship ChatGBT, believing it was a divine messenger.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
A viral Reddit user even declared themselves a, quote, spiral star child, convinced that AI revealed their cosmic destiny. In some cases, users claimed AI validated decisions like abandoning their families and hearing voices in radio waves.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
I don't know.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Oh, but hearing the anyway, but hearing the voices through radio waves and stuff. Terrifying. Yeah, dude. I mean, that'd be so scary. But apparently people are getting like weird visions and stuff like throughout like the night. And it's like involved with their AI or chat GPT. It's really creepy. Yeah. I don't like it.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Yeah. I mean, I was so creeped out when I asked it to basically list off everything it thinks it knows about me. Yeah. And how crazy accurate it was. And I don't give it any like personal information about my life, you know? Yeah. I just like ask it questions. We are in like the podcast and whatnot, but like it was able to like, it learns.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
It's so weird.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Because you hit a button and type in the answer, right?
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Speaking of pranks and AI, that one dude with the Neuralink in his brain, who has, what is it, ALS?
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
He's doing great. It's really weird and it's kind of, yeah, it's just weird. So before he was using like the motion of his eyes to track to talk and he said it was just exhausting because you have to like, it's all based on your eye movement.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
So they installed the Neuralink and now it's literally, he's able to basically control it with his hands, but in his brain. So it's like he's like AI has gotten involved in it. Like they did scanned his brain and it's like, okay, pretend to move your left hand. And then it's scanned his brain of like what it would look like and stuff. And so now he's able to talk like a whole bunch now.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
But they also took his voice before he went mute, and now it speaks through his voice.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Yeah.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Stuff like that. It's wild though. Like how in the AI predicts what he's going to say too. So it's easier for him to like click on what to say.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
That's why I always crap my pants after eating Chinese food.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Also, is his consciousness stuck in that little brain? That's what the most terrifying thing. He's trapped in there just creating music for eternity.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
There's cheese inside of Chuck E. Cheese, please. Cut the cheese. Speaking of Chuck E. Cheese, did you guys ever hear that story about how World War III was almost that... World War III was almost started over a tree. Did we ever talk about this? Which tree? A tree in South Korea.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
I can't remember. So in South Korea, North Korea, there's the demilitarized zone, you know, that cuts across the entire peninsula. Yeah. And in this demilitarized zone, there was this tree, this big old tree. And in 1976, the U.S. decided, hey, we got to cut down this tree because it's blocking our view now to, like, for like security reasons and stuff.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
So they send a team out there to cut down this tree. North Korea saw it, sent some dudes down there. They literally fought a couple of Americans died. And then all of a sudden, uh, it like hell just broke loose. So like everyone was just like guns blazing at each other.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
um so the u.s sent in with the south korean army they sent in two aircraft carriers offshore uh b-52 bombers flying overhead dozens of f-4 phantoms and attack helicopters in south korean special forces and plain sight uh nuclear alert status was upgraded and then they sent in a team to cut down the tree Just for the tree. Just for the tree. All this for a tree. Apparently. Yeah. What's his face?
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Kim Jong-un? Il? Who was the first one? Il, right? Kim Il-sung? I don't know. Which one was it? The first North Korean dude. Probably Kim. But apparently he planted that tree. And so it was a sacred tree because it represented his divinity and stuff. Got it. But yeah, World War III is literally... They're about to flip the freaking nuke on you guys over a tree.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
They weren't kids, dude. They weren't.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
No. We're going to prison now.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Give us a riff or something.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
What about Chattanooga?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
What? Oh, the earthquake. No. The earthquake's crazy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
It's a conference trip. It's a work trip, first of all. Again.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Yeah, there's an earthquake in Tennessee. I'm going to make one right now.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Oh, yeah. I literally saw that the words out. They're like, we got to get this done quick.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
It's a distillery exploding. I actually have a story about the great molasses flood of 1919. In Boston? Yeah. Dude, yeah. Have you heard of that?
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
No, okay, listen to this. 1919 in Boston. This was towards the end of World War I. Okay. They had this molasses plant or factory, and they built this giant cauldron that held like 2 million gallons of molasses. But these molasses, when you cook it down more and more, you can use it for explosives. What? So it was really an explosive fuel manufacturer.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
But they built this giant cauldron held, yeah, 2 million gallons or whatever. And they were in a time crunch because their first shipment of molasses from Cuba, I think, was on its way up. And so it didn't pass any inspections.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
They're like, yeah, we're good. They said that they put in six inches of water. I'm like, yeah, it's good. And so they filled it up and it was all good. But then it started leaking in certain spots and it just like appear on the streets, just like piles of molasses or you wouldn't say puddles of molasses. And actually the kids loved it. They used to go eat molasses off the streets. Oh, barf.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
But they actually ended up painting it brown, the whole cauldron thing, because of how much it was leaking. And then it was one, like it was in spring or something. There was this giant cold snap that happened in Boston, and it quickly froze the molasses, and then it heated up again. So the gas that it produced, they didn't open the vent for it.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
It exploded, and they said it was a 25-foot tidal wave of molasses that just took out the majority of this part of the city, killing 21 people. Oh, no. Yeah, and it was the first... Like 150 people got injured. Yeah. 15 feet deep. Yeah, of molasses. People were drowning in molasses.
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Yeah, and it was actually the first major class action lawsuit in U.S. history.
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They ended up saying, yep, you are at fault, Mr. Molasses.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, they said the smell still you can still smell molasses in this part of Boston.
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I knew that. I realized that a long time ago.
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A long time ago. I think it says it on the back. Probably.
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Really?
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It seems like it would do the opposite.
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If you were constipated?
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It just seems like a thing to clog you up.
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Yeah, well, I was just going to tell you about the molasses. We got a question.
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It took people out. Like, people couldn't outrun it.
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The scariest one was there's a shop and these people ran in, but it broke through the glass. Yeah. Said that they're stuck in there for hours. I think they said like eight hours before they got help. And one dude was just like this, and he couldn't float in molasses. He can't float in molasses.
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Oh. Ooh. Oh. A game of trivia.
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He asks you the questions.
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You pretend to be the troll.
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The strategy is you just be good in a subject. Something that you're confident in.
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Two wipes?
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1982.
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um i'm gonna say do you know what do you know when uh uh reese's pieces dude you you nailed it did i yeah perfect no 1935 i knew it that was close 35 reese's pieces yeah when did they make their debut reese's pieces i say pieces but then people make there's like it was my buddy that says you don't say pieces of a puzzle i kind of do though i want to know When did they make their debut?
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They charge like three bucks for their different sauces per sauce. I mean, are they making them?
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Or what feature film did they make their debut?
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I win. You lose. Bye-bye. Zoology. Zoology?
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Ask me a question.
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What's a kangaroo? It's an animal.
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That's not even a real word. I don't even like soup. Maybe World War II. I watch a lot of World War II documentaries.
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No, he didn't kill his mom. Yeah, he totally. It was a documentary on the bombings of London during World War II.
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Yeah, let me tell it.
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Basically, they were being bombed. Yeah. And he grabbed his mother's hand, ran her into an underground shelter that they had set up all over London. Bomb goes off, explodes. He wakes up in the hospital. His dad comes and he's like, where's mom? Where's mom? And he's like, she's dead.
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And then he says, every day for the rest of my life, I felt like it was my fault that my mom died. Because I pulled her into the bunker. Yeah.
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It was a great documentary.
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People are saying that's going to be the new PTSD. It is. I mean, he was.
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Hey, hit us with that beat.
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I know. She's so funny.
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All right. All right, ready? Three, two, one.
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You know when to buy and sell in stocks. That's how you figure out to become like a millionaire. It's like the price of ice cream is going up.
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You're trapped.
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Quit touching people. Check this out. I'm sending you this. This is, I think, the first time ever someone's gotten a video of an asteroid hitting the moon. What? Oh, I saw this, dude.
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Check it out. You don't need any music or anything with it, I think. It's wild. How does this not change stuff? It was huge, man. Did you see that plume?
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It landed in the Indian Ocean. Oh, thank goodness.
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So I sent it to the chat, but it was a Russian, I guess, satellite or spaceship? No, satellite that was supposed to go to Venus. They sent it off in like the 80s or something like that. obviously didn't make it because it came back to Earth, but they said the shielded coating on it or whatever, it was meant to go into Venus's atmosphere, which is way more treacherous than Earth's atmosphere. Yeah.
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So it wasn't going to break apart. And so they're like, it could land anywhere in this region. And Florida was definitely in the region. And they're like, it could be tonight or tomorrow morning. We're not really sure, which that's crazy. Yeah. But it ended up landing in the Indian Ocean. And they said if it does land... Close to you. Don't go touch it.
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I don't know.
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It's my treasure.
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That doesn't make sense.
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Yeah, Soviet-era spacecraft that was meant to land on Venus half a century ago expected to plunge Earth tonight or tomorrow. Yeah, and so it already hit. That's weird. Half a century ago. 10,000 years ago? A million. Oh, okay.
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Everybody was just like that.
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Something like that, yeah.
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No. They all just died in their sleep.
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Let's do it. Really cool stuff with this. Let's dive in. All right. So in Joshua, the book of Joshua in the Bible, the Israelites were fighting the Amorites. And it says in Joshua 10, verse 12 through 14, it says... Uh, the sun or says sun stand still over Gibeon and you moon over the Valley of Ajlon.
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Uh, and it says, quote, the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.
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Whoa. What's more amazing is when this happened, whenever this happened, they said it was like 1400 to 1500 BC. There's different records from around the world of... The sun standing still in China and in Egypt. But in Mesoamerica, the Mayans and Aztecs, they talked about how the night never ended. Wow. So it was a full day of just night. Yeah.
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Yeah, so they called it the night that never ended. Yeah, and it lasted way too long, and they're all freaking out, so they decided to do all these mass sacrifices and stuff. Sure. And then it came back up. But then in China, forgive me for this. You just said an accent. Forgive me. I'm going to probably mispronounce this.
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The ancient Chinese text, Chunqiu. Oh, I thought that was pretty good. Chunqiu.
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Allegedly notes a double sunset. So in one day during the reign of Emperor Yao, the legendary figure roughly dated at the same time as Joshua, the sun, it literally dipped and then went back up and lasted all day and then dipped again.
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So if you think of like the globe of like if the sun was staying over Israel, you know, in China, that would have been like a sunrise or sunset. What was that? So upstairs.
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But yeah, then in Egypt, this one was actually crazy. They said that the sun changed erratically in the sky. So it was setting in the west and then stopped and then started going backwards.
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But the proof of the sun standing still in the Bible was accounted for by different cultures around the world.
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In their society.
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Well, they gave some scientific explanations that could have happened. One of them was there could have been a pole shift that drastically altered Earth to where the sun just went crazy, like the Earth stopped spinning and stuff. So the orbital shift theory could be a massive asteroid that may have altered the Earth's axis temporarily, right?
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Atmospheric refraction, so a solar illusion caused by thick atmospheric conditions. So it doesn't explain it cross-culturally, though. Culturally. And then Einstein's theory of relativity. Some have proposed that time dilation affects through, like...
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Don't do that, children. It was pitch dark. Yeah, don't do that because you could get hit by a train.
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No, three.
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Yeah. Did you guys see Mr. Beast's video recently? I haven't. I don't watch it. 536. No, I haven't. Where he went and explored all the Mayan and Aztec temples. I saw his pictures. Same as the Egyptian pyramids.
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Lies? No, it was just like... I mean, he had access... to everything for 100 hours and the video was just like, we just went down this cave and it was scary because there's bats in it. You could be diving so much deeper and people would love it. Yeah.
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They apparently went down this one cave system that was built under this pyramid and they said that it was called the Tree of Life and apparently the Mayan and Aztec, either one, I forget...
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they said that every all of life came from the tree of life in this cave and they went down they got to see it but it was just basically like it's really hot in here dang it's like dude why are we letting this guy do all this stuff he gets to do all the cool stuff he does that's a commentary on our culture like just attention and clickbait yeah rather than substance
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Anyways, if Mr. Beast, we know you're watching this.
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Yeah. As long as it was truthful and not propaganda. Sure. But we're doing propaganda.
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Yeah, if he brought on cool experts along, he could make it work. But even like the giant one that people always go visit that's considered one of the seven wonders of the world, he wasn't allowed to go into that. No one's allowed to go into that. But they were allowed to fly a drone in it. And that was it. Like, wow.
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They said this room is pretty empty, but with our blah, blah, blah, we're able to recreate what it could have looked like. And I got to say, it looks really cool in there. That's literally what he said. Just like a Disney tunnel. He was like, what are we doing, man? Anyways, cool opportunity though, Mr. Beast. What would we do with his money then?
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golly would you guys automatically start talking like that though you went there and did this oh yeah you'd have to we're here at the mexican pyramids to hear and figure out what it really looked like let's go let's go yeah um we love you jimmy do you guys want to hear about this one saint Another one? This one's a cool one. Okay. Saint... Oh, boy. I had it. Lord? Spiridon? Spiridon, I believe.
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Saint Spiridon. Saint Spiridon from Cyprus. So this was year 325 A.D., And it was the first ecumenical council of Nicaea. Wow. And they were gathered, all these Christians were gathered at the council of Nicaea. And it was to discuss the divinity of the Trinity.
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So there was this dude, his name was Arius, and he was a big proponent in the early church of claiming that God the Father created Jesus. And his spirit comes from the Father, basically taking away the divinity of Christ. And so it was this big open forum, this council meeting. And a supporter of Arius, he's just a bishop philosopher dude.
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He got up and gave this very philosophical opening statement about this thing. And it was so well said that everyone was just silent. They didn't know how to argue it. And then St. Spiritum stood up and everyone was embarrassed when he stood up because he was just like this humble shepherd dude. And was not educated, but he said, basically, the wisest of man is a foolishness to God.
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He says, I know the Holy Spirit is going to speak through me. And so he's talking about, he was basically just quoting scripture of like, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. And he's like, the word was Jesus Christ and just goes into this whole thing. And then he pulls out, they say it was either a clay pot or a terracotta tile roof or roof tile.
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He pulled it out and he said,
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um let me back up before that he's like um there's so many things in this world that have three parts but as one and that's when he pulled this out and he says in the name of the father and he's holding this terracotta roof tile he said flame started to shoot out from the top of it he said in the name of the sun water started to pour so it's fire up top water on the bottom and
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He said in the name of the Holy Spirit, he turned his hand and it was all dust. And he says, the Trinity is real and is divine. And everyone was shook.
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And then Arius and his dudes, they were told to recant everything that they said about the divinity of Christ. Yeah. And those who didn't were excommunicated from the church. Wow. But this humble shepherd guy got up and he's like, I'll show you that Christ is divine and that the Trinity is real. And he freaking did that whole miracle thing. I can picture that now, dude. That's so wild. Love that.
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And they said, everyone's like, whoa.
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Spyridon. I'm probably saying that wrong. It's S-P-Y-R-I-D-O-N.
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That's so fun. Yeah, that was the first council of Nicaea.
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No, that was later. But that was, yeah, one of their arguments is, I forget. It's about the Holy Spirit.
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Not from Christ, that it's from the Father, because it talks about Christ. Yeah. We can talk about it later on Patreon, but...
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It's so good. Dude, I'll tell you, there's some rad stories of these saints and like the miracles that they perform. But it's so cool. So much history. The humility that these dudes have. So it's like, to me, it gives a lot of validation. It was only to display Christ. Yeah. You know? And this dude's like...
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everyone he's like you guys you act like you're so smart he's like but guess what there's there's some things you can't explain that god does yeah some things that man can't explain and he's like god said he was with the word and the word was with god the word is god christ is the word christ is god just because we can't explain it properly all the time doesn't mean he can't yeah and so that's what we have to just allow him to have that room and we have to trust him to
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you know what i mean or at least interacted with well true i mean the book i'm reading about eastern ether ethernet eastern orthodox um no the um basically when pros isn't prodded to what the heck am i having a stroke no please don't um martin luther yeah uh The evangelical movement. Yeah.
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When that was happening, they were so opposed to the Pope and stuff that they deemed basically the majority of early Christian traditions as a Catholic thing. So they became anti-Catholic. And so we got rid of all the stories of the saints, all that stuff.
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Let's rip it, Andrew. You want a song? Oh, yeah. Speaking of a card game, dude. Nice.
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Yeah.
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Yeah. Like thousands of years.
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We are, yeah. We are having the Pope on next week. Yeah, we are. Yeah. Totally forgot about that. Yep. It's a big deal.
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That is a cool name.
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And a fiend. I don't... I think this has been disproven. I'm not sure. But apparently there's like... You know how people see the orbs or the spheres flying around? Did you see this? There's one that apparently crashed in Colombia and they're calling it the Booga Sphere. Booga Sphere.
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That's what people were saying. Oh no, not the Ooga Booga Sphere. Are you sending it? Yeah, I'll send it. But... I'm pretty sure it's been labeled as a hoax. I'm pretty sure. I'm not positive. Was it the metal shiny ball? Yeah. The booga sphere. The booga sphere?
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Someone says, does it have it made in China? whoa yeah so those are real videos right of people getting these fears because those are those are happening like all over south america um but the actual like him picking it up and it having those i mean could it be i don't know man that's the thing i mean if it were real they would make you want to think it's fake they would give you every reason to
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But it looks like how those people say that have encountered stuff like that, how it has the hieroglyphic looking stuff on it.
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Yeah.
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Ooga booga. Crazy stuff. Ooga booga booga. Golly, man. Speaking of crazy stuff, we got more crazy stuff on patreon.com forward slash ninjas or butterflies. Hopefully I'm not having a stroke. I'm having a hard time talking. You're fine.
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Stop it.
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Which is scary because, you know, deer meet for dinner? Yeah. Did you see Hannah Stroke?
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Yeah. He can't talk now. Dude.
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So sad, dude. Yeah. Scary.
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That was kind of bad news at the end of the episode. We'll talk about fun stuff on Patreon. Patreon.com forward slash ninjas of butterflies.
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Look forward to that. Hey guys, make sure to give us a thumbs up on everything. Follow us on Spotify, YouTube, Apple, whatever you got to do. Comment. What are they commenting? Trivia.
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What category of trivia?
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Or what category of trivia do you think that we would all be good at? Collectively. Yeah. Or individually.
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Just comment something.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Excited to see the Pope next week. Yes, we are. Yeah. Very excited. Can't believe he's coming.
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I love how much joy you bring. Oh, I'm stuffed. I couldn't do any more. Dessert? Possibly. I love your smile.
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I want a compliment.
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Unfortunately, we can't help but just to be musically genius.
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Speaking of killing it. We won't be quiet. I know we're happy because we got an American Pope. Thrilled. But today's question, I want us to look deep inside and ask yourself.
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What?
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You will be. So today's question, sent in by a viewer. Should the world have peace?
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I don't know what you're talking about, but obviously we're talking about a piece of a planet-killing asteroid that would hit the world and destroy everyone, kill everyone. Sounds like the world deserves that.
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Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
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Read?
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I don't know what you're talking about. I'm scared. She's deflecting. That's what she's doing. Yeah, it seems like it.
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Yeah. Well, I guess you guys heard it here first. Again... Will did it again. We tried to help her, but she just wants this world to fall apart.
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She doesn't want anything good for anyone. Apparently, she just wants the world to be destroyed. Welcome to the show. I don't know. I wrote that like two seconds before. That was really good.
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Hey, Mondays.
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142 - New Pope’s Rise to Power, The Boston Massacre, and WWII Dinosaurs
Peter the Roman. Who was Peter? The first disciple to be head of the church? Sure. Okay. What do people compare America to? Rome? Rome, yes. The first American pope mirrors Peter the Roman? Right. The first disciple over Rome? Yes. Rome being America, Leo being the first American.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
all right sam real quick we need you to do our intro okay you just say this podcast is brought to you empowered by sunday cool sunday cool watch this or listen watch this or listen yeah that's it that's it this podcast is brought to you by sunday cool watch or listen
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
We need all the men in town to dress up like Satan.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
And jump over your infant.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah. Wow. Michael Jeff has a legit phobia of clowns. Like a legit phobia. Interesting. I've never heard that in my life. Yeah. Of clowns.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Well, the red hair, that's a common denominator within, like, Fallen Angels and Nephilim and stuff. Interesting.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I don't get it. I don't get it. Never seen this before.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah, well, that's funny. I mean, you dove right into it, man. We love talking about just the mysteries of just the dawn of man and God and fallen angels and the Nephilim. We dive into it, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
What is happening? Well, Sam, have you ever read the Book of Enoch?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I mean, because like if you think about like conspiracies, it's like you're seeking for the truth. Right. Yeah. And as a believer, which we all are, it's like we know that our truth is or the truth is God and Christ. Right. So like it all does. It is very spiritual to where it does lead to that pinnacle of like.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah, and that's, I mean, that's been my journey with, like, I mean, really just these past two years. I've always really been into conspiracy theories ever since third grade. Shout out, 9-11.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Right? Unless you get it from a trust. Yeah, because of AI and all that stuff, dude. Oh, it's getting so crazy. It's like, what can you believe? Right. Like, even with, like, okay, we're going to just be jumping around a lot tonight. Let's go.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
But with all the – I don't know if you've seen it, but it really seems like these past two weeks there's just been a plethora of, like, civilian UFO videos, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Like an airplane. Yeah, they just sit there. But that's what the crazy thing is. It's like the FBI, the Pentagon stuff, they're calling them drones. Like they keep calling them drones and it's like, well, what's the definition of a drone, right? It would have to be like an unmanned. So like, how do they, are they just saying drone as like a, like a coverup for like, we don't know what this is.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
So like, let's just say drone because that's more of a like secure, safe thing to say.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I mean, with New Jersey, there's been at least a thousand people recorded like these like drones, what they're calling them, in the sky. And I mean, some of them look a little suspect, like they kind of look like planes.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
But there's others that are just like they're literally just sitting there and they're just kind of like doing this. And then it's like three of them.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah, and why is the FBI being like, oh, yeah, we're going to investigate it? It's like, well, if they're drones that are the size of cars, you should probably figure that out pretty quick. In our airspace.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
One, two, three, four, five. This is counting. We did it, folks.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
It was too cold, so I couldn't get the gloves. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
No, it's weird. It's, it's, we've been talking about it a lot these past couple of weeks of just like the congressional hearings with the UFO UAP stuff. And my, I mean my theory, which I'm interested to hear your theory, which it sounds pretty similar. It's just like, it's like a conditioning of seeing how the public reacts to it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
And like, what is the ultimate goal of like this whole, like, is there going to be an invasion of, Is it going to be the government, or is it going to be an actual entity, or is it going to be both? Is it a weird partnership? Is that the deception?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I love it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Well, speaking of galactic inter-council stuff, great segue. I came across this video where they're talking about the CIA declassified, so like the remote viewers, you know, that like can supposedly, they're basically like,
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
psychics right so they can just like see future past current stuff in different locations on earth and in the galaxy apparently chronovisor right all cia find uh founded super weird but apparently in the 80s 1988 there was this remote viewer and they rank it based off of uh accuracy they do A to F, I believe.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
And this one was circled like a B. So it was like a more accurate remote viewing session. And his task was to look up where the... This is so weird. The Galactic Federation headquarters is at. Did you see this?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah. And so this whole CIA document is just... absolutely wild so he's doing his whole little thing right and he talks about the the surroundings where this galactic federation's at it's in the u.s or it's it's in it's on our world the federation headquarters it's in earth on earth in earth listen it could be in earth In and on. In and on.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
But he describes this place, and there's this whole write-up. This is the actual CIA document, right? So it's like the guy's writing what this guy's talking about. But he talks about the surroundings, and there's these vast, huge mountains, very rocky, and then there's a flat plateau, and then there's a giant lake. And the guy says it seems a lot like Lake Titicaca. In Peru. Okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Maybe I pronounced that wrong because you laughed.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Obviously.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Either way, this guy talks about he entered this chamber and there was this hallway and then it led up to an inclined hallway. Just these megalith stone pillars on all sides. And he walked up it and in the middle of this room was this altar. And he said he went and laid on this altar. This is the CIA remote viewer.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
And then all of a sudden from above, there was this, he said it was this beaming white light that went from his head to his toes. And then he looked and there was a man or he said an entity.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
in a white robe standing there and they looked over and there was a group of entities standing in white robes and one of them walked over to him and then placed his hands on him and it was the weirdest stuff ever right like this super weird he said it seemed very spiritual religious he didn't know how to describe it this was in 1988 right Lake Titicaca
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
There has to be a better way to pronounce it. We'll find out. We'll find out. The commenters will let us know. But it was in 2000 that these Italian archaeologists discovered that at the bottom of Lake Titicaca was this ancient city with an ancient temple.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
that really matched up with the CIA document.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
We don't, I mean, I don't know. I mean. If we talk about these UFOs coming up from the water. Wow. That's a big thing, too.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I'll go find a dark corner and wait. Look at his teammate in the remote viewing thing drew a picture of it, of him laying on the thing and these robed beings coming over to him. So who is that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
This says, an Italian team discovered evidence of a pre-Columbian construction in 2000, including a large temple, paved road, and a retaining wall and terraced for crops. The monuments were estimated between 1,000 and 1,500 years old. But it's like, how do you even base that? Yeah. I feel like all those dates are, like, so wrong with, like, predating stuff.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah. Because, I mean, they talk about, too, there's, like, megalithic blocks underwater. And it's, like, it's also the highest lake in the world.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Elevation. Yeah, it's 12,500 feet above sea level.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I wonder if there's significance to that. I mean, well, we talk about, like, fallen angels and stuff, and the importance of mountains and whatnot, like the fallen angels descended upon Mount Hermon and whatnot. It's so crazy. If there's a body of water that is the highest elevation on Earth... Yeah. That's pretty crazy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
And there's a lot of folklore and stuff in South America of like Nephilim and giants and weird stuff. Even the Nazis, that's where they like relocated. Oh yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Anyways, you have broken our record for the latest podcast we've ever filmed in the studio.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Dude, I want to go down there so bad.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I am scared. We just find out Sam can't swim.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Mr. Beast flew in. If Mr. Beast can fly in, we can fly in.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
They almost seem like they agree more on Antarctica than they do space. Yeah. Because we got other countries blowing up other satellites, but Antarctica is just like, no one. We're not interested. We're all good with this, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Hi.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
We didn't even know you guys were here. Oh, Sam didn't have headphones the whole time.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I want to hear what you think about it. Do you know anything-
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
But at that time, it was already too late. Everyone's protesting.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
You also forgot powered. Did I say powered? I think you said powered. I think you said it, didn't you?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I don't. I haven't heard that. It's so confusing. I feel like there's very little coverage on what's even going on. There's a really weird conspiracy theory that was so off the books.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
There's only one person I heard talking about this. that they said they issued... This is so weird. They issued the martial law because the Malaysian flight that disappeared supposedly landed in South Korea. And so it was martial law, curfew, everyone go home.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Could be, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
yeah no i heard that it was fun i know he's blamed so he's he's right wing okay and so the left wing is just like they're trying to usher in this whole ideology or like plans or whatever for the country like with uh running it through parliament and so he was threatened by that and so called them north koreans uh sympathizers and said martial law we can't vote on it
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
What's going on? Have you seen what's going on in France? It's so crazy. The prime minister, it was the shortest prime minister or his, what do you call it? Term. Term in French history.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
No, he's the president.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Okay. I don't get the European politics. It's just a title. But it was like three weeks this guy was prime minister or something.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
But now they're saying that the French government is dissolving. Oh, my gosh. And that the country's going into chaos.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
so crazy yeah and then apparently uh it's being uh questioned and uh put out there that trump wants canada to be the 51st state oh my gosh what are you talking about that is so i saw that yeah i mean we give him a hundred billion dollars that's crazy to me so he had a dinner with um trudeau and trudeau's like you can't do tariffs it's gonna ruin our economy
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
and then trump's like we'll stop uh stealing a hundred million plus dollars from america a year and he's like well we can't do that and he's like okay well then you can become the 51st state of america and but then trump posted on his twitter of like an ai image of him standing on this mountain cliff like in the rockies with a canadian flag oh canada I don't think there is a PR team. I love it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I mean, I think it's just president.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Oh, no. He offered Trudeau governor of the 51st state. But he was like, it sounds... But then I saw a Canadian from Alberta is like, don't make Trudeau the governor. She actually said, we're all about becoming the 51st state. No way. But just don't make Trudeau the governor.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I mean, it seems like what you said about Canada and their elections and stuff, it seems like that's what they're trying to do to America. It's just like pump people into these big cities to where it's just like a true election in one party's favor every single time.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
And I think this election was quite a shock. And to a lot of people. And I hope that we can continue to at least be in a country for... I don't think it's going to last long, personally. But I hope that it lasts long enough to where we can just have our own true freedom in democracy and whatnot. But I think it's all rigged, personally. I don't know. You think the elections... I could see that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah, we don't.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah, I brought it up. But I think that the true – shout out Deep State – that they have – they're – like 15 years ahead and like planning stuff out. And I think they have come to this part in American history and they're like, well, we know this is probably going to happen. So it's just going to happen. Like we're going to let Donald Trump win. Right. But we're going to pivot.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
We're going to do this in this part of the world. We're going to do this in this part of the world. And it's going to project to this ultimate plan. That's my thought. It's a crazy thought. I'm like the old man with the cork board with the yarn doing stuff.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
You guys got a t-shirt? A lot of people say that. Oh, man. Well, hey, well, welcome back, Lil, too.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Oh, my goodness. She's been gone for like a month. Five weeks. Five weeks Lily's been gone.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Well, with that, too, you think, like, they maybe start to get a little desperate in that, right? If they're losing the culture, they're losing the society, and they're, like, people are starting to, like, wake up to the falseness and the lies that they've been told for years now.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
But then they're starting to sneak stuff in, like, congressional hearing about UFOs, UAPs, and then all of a sudden it's, like, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. It's just like, oh, look at all these UFOs. There's drones over New Jersey and stuff. And so, like, could this be this new... Well, COVID. Right. So it's like, oh, well, now there's aliens and we're all under threat. And now we you have to.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Our child had pneumonia, and now she's better.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
It's a lockdown. We're your savior.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
And that's why I truly think that like fall like angels and fallen angels, they're not they're not dumb. They've been here before us, truly. And their technology, their wisdom, everything about them, they're not just going to be like this UFO tech. So that's why I think there's something more sinister to where it's like a...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
She'll be two this month.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
A replica of what the fallen angels may have presented early on, or if they're in cahoots, which I don't know about that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Second kid.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Brought to you and brought to you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
So Lil's back.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah, because they'll be desperate too, right? Yeah. Because it's just like we lost, we're going to lose, and it's catching up with us, and so we need to be all out. So that might be what we're seeing. It could be them too. It's just like a desperation attempt.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Also, the plan of just like Satan, his his one really good thing that he has for him is just mass confusion. So like if you have just I mean, you look at our world and how connected it is with like media and our culture and society is just like. You throw little bits every single day. South Korea's doing this. Russia's doing this. Canada's doing this. There's aliens. There's this. There's that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
And you're just like, I don't even know what to believe.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Well, guess what?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Well, Sam, I don't know if you've ever watched our podcast, but we typically start out with a song. Would you like a song?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
When do you think the last time that America did feel that? Like which president would you say? I would say I mean, it's been a long time.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Brought to you and powered.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
But it was there, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Nixon? Nixon. That dog. Still my favorite.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Perfect. You cool with that? Cool, yeah. We're going to serenade you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
We'll just come up with something, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Calling them the deep state.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
No, we support the FBI. Oh, absolutely.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
But speaking of political things, did you know that we have an ad?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Sam gets it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
It's a clean energy. What is it? 730 at night?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Check it out. They get it. We've done it enough.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Well, they get 20% off their subscription or 50% off their 10-day subscription. Sounds like a great deal. Sounds like a great deal. Costco to Magic Mind. Yeah, quit using that Adderall stuff, guys. Yeah, quit getting monster drinks and all that. They're so bad for you. Don't poison your body. Get some good, healthy stuff in your system. Use the magic. It truly is the best.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I actually really love magic. Have you tried the gummies yet? No, not yet. Oh, they got gummies, dude? Gummies? Let's go, bro. They do the gummies, and if you mix the gummies with the drink...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah. I feel like I'm Paul Atreides from Dune when I take the gummies. Just levitating. This is what everyone hears while you're pooping. It's like the worm juice.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Tequila? I think that's it. Blue agave, that's what it is, yeah. Magic mind. Magic mind. The dune tequila. That's perfect. Anyways, did you know that... Wait, what?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I felt like this part of my body went into a black hole.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
No, she's never asked this. I've heard this question, but I've heard it before.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
No, cold water.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I feel like bacteria grows in hot water.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Not if it's not boiling.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
That's bad luck. It's not well balanced. I gotta balance it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
McDonald's 7-Up.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
No, the ad's over, so we're... Oh, okay. We're going to cut. We're going to cut. McDonald's Sprite, though, would definitely be a... Why is it spicy?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
So that was five weeks.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
No. Sam's like, you don't deserve it. I told Sam to say no, by the way. I think I ruined it the last time. I had to make a call back. I texted him. I said, hey, when we do the intro question, just say no because we're going to gaslight my wife.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
He's like, you know that doesn't make sense to an outside person, right? Which, bringing it back to the original question. One second. Because I really... The holidays. Should we celebrate every holiday? I came across a holiday. And it's the craziest holiday that I've ever heard of. And I thought it was a joke at first. Definitely not a joke. They actually celebrate it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Today's December 5th when we're filming this. They're doing it today, the holiday. Where at? It's on an island in the North Sea, a German island called Borkum. Borkum. Very small island.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
But they do this festival every year. And forgive me, everyone that speaks German watching this show. Yeah. But this festival is called the Klassum Festival. And it's a 200-year-old festival that they've been doing. And it's insane. It's the funniest, weirdest... It's like you're in another... It's like a fever dream festival.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Don't put your nose in it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
So they, December 5th, this goes back 200 years. The men on this Island, what they would do is they would go whale hunting for months and they would come back. And when they came back, they started this festival as a, you're returning home. The men are returning home. We're going to do a festival, a party when the men come back, a homecoming kind of thing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
But the whole point of it is to, uh, show the women that the men are back in charge, uh, Let's go. That's what I'm talking about. Every year, this little island in the North Sea, they dress up in sheepskin and feathered costumes, and they actually look super terrifying.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Very scary. But what they do is they walk around all day, right? And then when the sun goes down, then the young men that are dressed this way, they go and hunt for the women.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
So they hunt the women down. And when they catch them, they beat them.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
To show that they're back in charge. I know, I know. Are they voluntarily doing this? Is that real? Yes. And it's called the, I can't say it, the K-L-A-A-S-O-H-M. Klossom. Clasham Festival. And they track them down, these young men. They're called the catchers, quote-unquote catchers. They catch the women, and then they spank them in the buttocks with a cow horn. And that's the festival.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah, they don't beat them up.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I thought they were going O.J. Simpson on everybody. Well, they've definitely presented like they beat them a lot, but they definitely have a cow horn. They catch them, and then they hit them in the buttocks with a cow horn.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
But then they've gotten so much flack.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I'm just like, well, you can't do that. Like, right. You can't hunt down women. You can't beat your wife with a bullhorn, bud. Here's the funny part is that the women of this island because they banned it. Right. So this year was supposed to be banned. No more Colostrum Festival. Oh, but the women of this island came together and they protest. They said, it's our tradition. We need it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
We got to stick to it. That's heritage, not culture. Right. Bang. Boom. That's awesome. So tonight they are partaking in some ladies, some German ladies are getting spanked.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Did you say bullhorn? Oh, yeah, bullhorn. Like a bullhorn. Yeah, yeah. That's got, okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah, maybe don't Google it. I want you to see these guys, though, because they're actually really... It sounds like a bunch of big birds just running around with bullhorns.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Oh, wait. Here we go. I wanted to show you a picture of these guys because it's so scary. All right. So here's one of the costumes.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Never mind.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
There's a seal on his head. Do you see that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
There's a little dead seal on his head. So weird.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
That's how you know it. Come down to Borkum. Let me hit you with a bullhorn. Look, he's literally holding the bullhorn. He's like, I'm here to...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah. All right, Andrew. I sent it to you already. You got to do a beat because we don't have our normal soundboard.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I'm about to send it. All right, Sam, do you got your phone on you?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
We all got it? Got it. All right, ready?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Oh, my gosh. Do you think it's controlling it? Probably. Because they look like aliens, truly.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah. When this comes out next week.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
With the bullets?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
They said bullets, but it would make more sense if it was the casings.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I saw that, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
What? I did not hear that. What? I did not hear that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
In a power lift, a thousand pounds.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
All right, all right, all right, all right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
We'll just come up with something? You cool with that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah. I mean, like, you think of, like, the insurance and, like, pharmaceutical companies. Like, they probably have more pool within our society and our nation than we know of, you know? Yeah. Like, they're, like... They're like the top dudes, you know?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
It's unbelievable. I mean, the Super Bowl was like their main sponsor was Pfizer, right? So it's just like, what are we doing? Yeah. It's just super strange. You know that America, the United States of America, is one of two nations in the world to where they have pharmaceutical commercials on TV. Really? It's not allowed. Every other nation is, it's not allowed. Interesting.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
They want sick people. Right? These companies, they want sick people. Yeah, they do. Because they make- Do you guys ever go to Canada? No, pass.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
And ours is making profit. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Like the tortilla with the chicken in it?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Oh, you said something on the Roseanne's podcast when I was listening to it this morning. You mentioned something that... I want you to dive into, but did you mention that Bill Gates's dad was at one point head or involved in the Federal Reserve?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
His father? His grandfather.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Bro. Mr. Bezos.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
That's Papa Bezos.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah. I mean, the Pentagon, they failed their, was it third audit? Seventh. Seventh? Okay. So they're going to prison though, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Okay, good.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Again?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah, do what you got to do.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah, I mean, like World War II, right? They're just like, yeah, we're neutral. And it's just like, dude. What? Nazis are literally like, oh, they're neutral.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I feel like I know nothing right now. Yeah. You're like the elder of conspiracy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Wow.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
I mean, yeah, that makes sense, right? If you want to isolate these cities, like we've talked about before, the 15-minute cities, these smart cities. Yeah. Why would you want to travel the world?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah. Well, speaking of Bill Gates, did you hear about what they're doing in the UK right now with Bill Gates?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Or with the cow stuff?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Well- This is one of those... It's basically like the Fox News of England, I feel like, or the UK. Easy. But apparently Bill Gates is involved or he invested $12 million in this Australian firm called Ruminate. And it is to... They feed these cows a certain feed, which eliminates their farts.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
And that is to help with climate change.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Right. And... But this chemical that they feed these cows... It causes, let's see, it corrodes your eye, like human eyes, skin. And if you inhale it, it could kill you as a human. And so they're feeding it to the cows. to stop them from farting to lower climate change, but in return, it's going to be absorbed into their milk, which goes into butter, cheese, dairy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Andrew's safe. Yep. But so yeah, Bill Gates, there's a lot of flack and he's like being like really gone after about this whole because they're really trying to push it into the UK right now.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah. All the things to change. That's it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
You and Lily are on the same page. Lily's anti-Bill Gates.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the mosquito stuff alone.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
It had a QR code on it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Well, okay. Well, Sam, you're going to move to Florida then, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
My neighbor's selling their house. Let's do it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Yeah, sure.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Then we'll do it. Cool.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
You can. Send it to coolswag.com. Go and subscribe to our YouTube and follow us on Spotify and Apple.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
And comment because it really helps. Yeah. We'll see you on Patreon. All right. Love you. Love you. Love you. Bye-bye.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Oh, yeah. Yeah, just stare at the camera, Sam. Yeah, the coffee's good, too.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Howl's okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Fire.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Behind the scenes. Either way, man, it was good. Yeah, that was phenomenal. That was fire.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
They did, yeah. They rang the bells.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
For the first time like two weeks ago.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Crazy. A billion dollars. Notre Dame.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Same bell. Oh. Yeah, we're having a lot of fun. That would actually be kind of cool.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
But you know what would be really cool? What would be cool? So if we all just got quiet for a second. I know we had fun singing that song. Well, we got a question. Sam, we always start with a question from a viewer.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
And today's question. No. Good to know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
No. Good. I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's December, right? Happy holidays. Yeah, sure, I guess. Merry Christmas. Sure. Happy Hanukkah. Yeah. What are you getting at? Happy Pokemon, right? Is that what? No. No. That's April. Either way, guys, we really need to take this question very serious. And, Lil, we're very happy that you're back.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
And, man, we are so excited because we really set this question up for you to succeed. Okay?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
And I mean, in Christmas spirit, in holiday spirit, today's question to my viewer. Should we?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
It's been five weeks. Five weeks, Lil, and I really thought this time – We're trying to help her out, I would say, right? I mean, Sam, you're trying to help her out?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
You think we should celebrate that? That we should put these poor children, Andy, these poor Spanish children in the streets?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Especially Spanish ones. Was that Lily?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
Of course. I mean, Sam, I'm grateful that you're here and that you're able to speak into this because it just seems like my wife, who I thought I knew, really cared about children's. I've been thrown off.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
120 - Secret Societies and Schemes You've Never Heard of with Sam Tripoli
The thing is how hard it was to find a holiday, though, that was controversial. We looked up what holidays are controversial.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
137 - The Giants of Death Valley, CIA's Ark Cover-up, & Government Lies
And did you know that the Smithsonian is being sneaky again?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
137 - The Giants of Death Valley, CIA's Ark Cover-up, & Government Lies
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
137 - The Giants of Death Valley, CIA's Ark Cover-up, & Government Lies
Wow. That would be so fun.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
137 - The Giants of Death Valley, CIA's Ark Cover-up, & Government Lies
I'm saying, she's for hire.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
137 - The Giants of Death Valley, CIA's Ark Cover-up, & Government Lies
Nice. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
137 - The Giants of Death Valley, CIA's Ark Cover-up, & Government Lies
Oh. Okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
137 - The Giants of Death Valley, CIA's Ark Cover-up, & Government Lies
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
137 - The Giants of Death Valley, CIA's Ark Cover-up, & Government Lies
Yeah, typical.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
137 - The Giants of Death Valley, CIA's Ark Cover-up, & Government Lies
Why didn't you just say take your time?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
137 - The Giants of Death Valley, CIA's Ark Cover-up, & Government Lies
That's so many.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
137 - The Giants of Death Valley, CIA's Ark Cover-up, & Government Lies
I'm great. Thank you for asking. What?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
137 - The Giants of Death Valley, CIA's Ark Cover-up, & Government Lies
Great. Thank you for asking. How are you doing?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
137 - The Giants of Death Valley, CIA's Ark Cover-up, & Government Lies
Great! Thank you for asking.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
137 - The Giants of Death Valley, CIA's Ark Cover-up, & Government Lies
Great.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
124 - Mr. Beast's Evil Plan, Quantum Computers, & The Vegas Cyber Truck
Why is he going to an adoption center?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
124 - Mr. Beast's Evil Plan, Quantum Computers, & The Vegas Cyber Truck
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
124 - Mr. Beast's Evil Plan, Quantum Computers, & The Vegas Cyber Truck
Where could he run to? Where can he go? Sunday cool. They have everything. They have everything. That he could ever want. Sunday cool. Sunday cool. Sunday cool. Sunday cool. Sunday cool. Sunday cool.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
124 - Mr. Beast's Evil Plan, Quantum Computers, & The Vegas Cyber Truck
Papa. Papa. Mama. Mama.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
124 - Mr. Beast's Evil Plan, Quantum Computers, & The Vegas Cyber Truck
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
124 - Mr. Beast's Evil Plan, Quantum Computers, & The Vegas Cyber Truck
Oh. Yeah. Andrew's got a real. He's got a real. Right now. Right now.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
124 - Mr. Beast's Evil Plan, Quantum Computers, & The Vegas Cyber Truck
The shark just jumped into the boat.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
124 - Mr. Beast's Evil Plan, Quantum Computers, & The Vegas Cyber Truck
Look at its gills.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
124 - Mr. Beast's Evil Plan, Quantum Computers, & The Vegas Cyber Truck
Jumped out of the freaking water into the boat.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
124 - Mr. Beast's Evil Plan, Quantum Computers, & The Vegas Cyber Truck
Are you okay, bro?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
124 - Mr. Beast's Evil Plan, Quantum Computers, & The Vegas Cyber Truck
How was that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
whoa welcome back to ninjas are butterflies ladies and gentlemen we've got a hot show today because we're talking about how the government has secret underground cities and they're not telling us about them and we want in also this dude that's popping up on social media is he the antichrist i don't know let's figure it out and did jane goodall find proof of bigfoot what do you think will oh you heard it first this podcast is brought to you powered by sunday cool watch this or listen
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Oh, Mother's Day is Sunday, isn't it?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Armageddon, basically.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I've never, I don't think you would ever say that. I would never say that. No, we don't feel that way at all.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, absolutely.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I think you're hearing it loud and clear, Josh. So you think all mothers deserve a day that is just the worst day of their lives?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
How dare you? Listen, he's so in love with mothers. I'm so in love with mothers. He came from one and he married one. Yes. Okay. I did. I love mothers. When's the last time you married a mother? Exactly.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah. After he helped you make you one. Yeah. All right? I so desperately wanted to be with a mother. But you made it happen.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Everything I just said over the past five minutes. Oh, happy Mother's Day, Lil.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Happy Mother's Day. Happy Mother's Day to all the moms listening. Hey. If there's anybody listening, go tell your mom happy Mother's Day. Speaking of happy Mother's Day. Yeah. Go get yourself a new t-shirt, mothers. That's our especially themed Mother's Day t-shirt. You guys should check it out. It's NAB. It's our cryptid tee.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
A lot of people have been saying, I want some stuff on the front of the shirt, not just the back. Guess what? This one's... All the way, I'm not going to say full frontal, but I'm going to say on the front fully and on the sides as well as all the famous cryptids like the Chupacabra, the Thunderbird, the Nessie, and of course the owl. The owl. Most evil of all.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Our girls are fascinated with owls, by the way. They're like, you know, their eyes can't move. That's why their heads turn. Is that true? Apparently, they just always stay locked in.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, that makes it worse, right? Yeah. They can't just, like, I told the girls because they like it when I say that. I was like, they couldn't give the, Al couldn't give the bombastic side-eye. They could just, like, look over. Bombastic side-eye. Bombastic side-eye.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, we've been out in the sun a lot. SundayCoolSwag.com. SundayCoolSwag.com. Get your shirts today. You'll hear about it more on the ad. Stop. Yeah. That's true. Yeah, they will. I just want to get a... Yeah, for sure. Definitely all need to go because we're dropping some more for the next couple weeks. And it's limited. We only printed a handful, so get going. Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
People have been asking for that JFK shirt back. Oh. Which I think we can make a special one. Maybe November just for his anniversary.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
May 7th, yes.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yay! I mean, he didn't know the date. You knew that we were going to be on. Yeah. Not our faces.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah. But we're going to see.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Oh, okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Real ID is in effect May 7th, but it started back officially 2005, correct?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Oh, weird.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Guys, let's do that. Come on. Let's stop the podcast. Let's just go live on an island and give people boat rides. We'll just do a live stream from a sailboat every day. It is kind of interesting how one decision really just changes everything for your whole course of life.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
And then all of a sudden, and if you don't agree with this, then you don't want our plane safe. And how would you, are you anti-American? If you, I mean, I'm telling you, if you don't want to get a real ID and turn in your birth certificate, your marriage license, all this stuff and get a digitized and one digital database for your whole government, you're terrible, but you're not American. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Because, I mean, why would you not want the planes to be safer? That's what it's all about, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
It's crazy. I mean, I think it really is wild that, like, I mean, is this normal? Maybe this is just the next phase, but we've been doing flight travel for a really long time. Nothing like 9-11 has happened ever since in the past 20 years. I know. But that's not going to fix it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
You say no to no to the coming to work for Sunday. Cool. Build this company with your dad. You don't meet Lily.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
No, I mean, there's a there's a newspaper in Oklahoma that's called Jailbirds. And all it is that week's mugshots of all the counties like arrests.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
and that alone is crazy yeah people like sit around and they look at and it's shameful yeah but this is saying like tiny things you get a parking ticket you you know you jaywalk you're late you don't guess guess what you don't get a job yeah you litter which i'm about that one which i'm all for fines but public like shaming like this is we're getting to a weird spot and i don't know this is
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
But they started somewhere. Yeah. And this isn't going to just stop. This privacy thing, they're blurring the line constantly. It's little freedoms here and there, so it's not a big deal. But China just did it all at once, and it's like, this is the way we're living now.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
You don't have Ada. You don't have Jane. You don't have your house. You don't have me, most of all. Yeah, that's the scariest part. I know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
That's all a push. Yeah. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah. It gives everyone that. And that's the thing. It'll be like the police state at that point, which is exactly. Yeah. But they'll even make it rewarding. Like, listen, this is for you guys. We're doing this for you. Like your protection. This is going to be great for your future. Think about the social credit score. Think about all that stuff that no one sees that you're doing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
You're able to now push yourself farther in life because of this.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
It's like you're there's such a negative side to it. And they're doing mass surveillance already. Yeah. Right. Now we're going to have all these documents digitized for every single person. Yeah. And there just comes a time where it's like, that's a lot of information that could get hacked. Why are we giving it to them? Why can't we just show them if this is a real ID where the other one's fake?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I mean, what do we, I mean, I don't get it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, that's scary. Yeah, apparently that's a voluntary thing. You don't have to do this face scanning. Oh, yeah. But I don't know, man. It just feels weird, especially not being able to go into federal buildings without a real ID. Yeah. Like, this is a driver's license. You gave me.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I'm a mermaid.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Totally.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
We act like surveillance in China is just as bad. No, they're doing 100% the same thing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
She can only do back. Going backwards. She's doing circles.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, I don't know if those... I think you scan your phone at the beginning, like, you register your account, and then you just make sure you have an account, and then it just scans everything you're doing in there.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
just they can do anything yeah they can like they have like the capability for like um aging so like if you age ai knows what you're going to look like and i mean think of all those photos we've uploaded of our previous selves and now what we look like it's like you're just feeding them more data and i get it we're all guilty of this but it's being packaged as this new technological world where it will be easier for you we're easy we're doing this for you
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
That's not true. They're not doing any of this for us. No, it's all for power. Power, control, information, selling all that data. I mean, there's no way there's not. That's the biggest thing I want people to realize. There is malicious intent behind this, obviously. There has to be.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Something this federal and this big. Yeah. So I don't think it's good. No.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
No. But we do have our real IDs just because we live in Florida. So most states are doing it now.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
It's the star on your driver's license.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah. You have to look at yours, but yeah, probably.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Oh, geez, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
They're saying.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
What's wrong with him?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Come on.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
The car industry or something? I don't know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Perfect.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah. I saw somebody say, now obviously this is in my opinion, but someone said, why do you think China doesn't care about climate change? Oh, because they're already communist country? Because they're already got in control of their people. Yeah. It's like, oh, no.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Oh, no. I mean, because the thing is, yeah, obviously what we're doing to this earth is affecting. They're like one of the most polluted countries, too.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
He jumps in the water, cannonballs, swoops right towards you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
But you can't tell me what we're doing as everyday human beings. We are not adding to this as much as they are. And so it's like, don't. Don't make it our priority because you know they're going to be flying in private jets having all the cars that they want.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Dude, just get out on the paddle board with a shotgun. No, dude, I told him.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Can I, can I do a quick conspiracy real quick? Sure. I don't love this. Um, because did you see that, uh, conspiracy be about Robin hood, the movie, like that one that came out like 2008, uh, with Russell Crowe. Yeah. No. Okay. Let's see here.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
We aren't. They are.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
We got it all today, baby. This is just real quick because I didn't believe it. Have you seen how certain streaming shows will edit certain parts out? They did that for The Passion on Netflix. Yeah, they did that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Isn't that crazy? Why?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Only in the U.S. Oh! Canada, Ireland, people from Britain. No way. They're like, it's on ours.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
In America, and I just played it, and it doesn't. We're getting so plain. It literally is just a blank screen for 10 seconds. Everybody go buy a bow. I mean, you talk about physical copies of things. They are erasing history. And I know it's just a dumb movie. But if you think they're doing it with a movie, they're doing it on such bigger levels. I mean, it takes no time.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Too tired.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
When digital comes through, it's like it takes no time for them to do that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Mm-hmm.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
The verse is, he was wounded for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities. By his wounds we are healed. And they took that out. And that's how they decided to open it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
So it's like, yeah, that's what they think. It probably isn't the prettiest sounding voice.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I think I sound very nice.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Listen, we printed here at Sunday Cool. It's a long sleeve. We got prints on the side. A huge, massive print on the front. that everyone you walk by, they're going to point at and say, I want that shirt. Would you get that shirt? You can tell them sundaycoolswag.com. It's a limited edition. We're not printing these ever again in the history of Sunday Cool unless we want to or decide to later.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
So get it now. It's cheap. It's affordable. It'll be sent to you probably the same day that you order it. So why not wait? Don't be scared of cryptids. Go to sundaycoolswag.com and order your shirt today. Boom. Oh. They have donuts.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
You just talk about how you want to throw up. Yeah, that's exactly. Because I need to eat. More sugar? Those chips are good, aren't they?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
But a donut will help.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
No, what's up? Andy, you're scaring me. Something's wrong with my mind, man. I'm working slow. I can't think straight. All the thoughts are just running around. You need some clarity? I need some clarity, man. How about magic mind? What's a magic mind? Boom! Can I have that, please? Sure, it hurts.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
It will. That's amazing. I can't wait to drink this.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
No. Yes, I did. I promised you. What are you talking about? Listen, you haven't had your magic mind today because you are all over the place. No. But we're going to drink this real quick.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
It helps lower my stress. It helps clean up my mind and gives me a clean energy focus. I'm ready to storm the Statue of Liberty. Amen to that. And take ownership over it all because of Magic Mind. Proxy. Thanks, Magic Mind. Thank you, Magic Mind, so much. We love you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
And you can work remote. I mean, you've got Starlink. You literally can just do a remote job from the boat, which is the coolest thing. That's what I'm going to do. I'm just going to come back in to shore just to film and then I'll help, you know, like write and edit on the water. Listen to this.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Well, that's good because you were worried that we didn't have enough today. I know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
We also haven't even talked about Orange. We were at Orange all week. Oh, yeah. We were in Atlanta. It was fun.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
We didn't even have to work, which is awesome. We just got to hang out and have fun. That was amazing. That's the best part about it. Those are good, right? Like amazing. Bomb. Thanks, H-E-B.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Have you seen the? No, it's in the box still, I think. There's okay. Let me go grab it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
We have the best NAB family in the world. They just send us some stuff all the time that's just like, because we don't have snacks. Ruthie.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Weerland. Weerland. Weerland? Weerland.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
She's a stay-at-home mom.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
And a guy with a killer mustache. five-year-old Callahan, and a four-year-old Mesa May. Oh, come on. That's a cute name. Thanks, Ruthie. I hope I have kids one day, dude. Me too. Everyone just won't let me have them. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
My first truck. What was it? It was a 1982 GMC S15.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
It was a little pickup truck with a bench seat and a long pickup bed.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I bought it. No money. It was great.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I mean, you had a van. Yeah, that's fine.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I don't trust new cars like that, dude. That's scary to even drive. Like, I want to go to Montana with the girls and take a big road trip. Yeah. That's so scary.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, that was the one I met you with. I remember we had to fix a tire one time.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I'm going to be buying a backpack for Pico. So I'm going to be riding on the bike with Pico in there. I think that'll make it my favorite vehicle so far. She loves it. It's going to make my day. That's a big backpack.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
yeah all right what was your other question it's a long one that was good dialogue all right let's do the same can i do that would you rather real quick yeah this is a good one would you rather five million dollars cash right now or be able to see five sec have the ability to see five seconds in the future any part of the future you want to see five million dollars right now really yeah i don't want to know my future i want to live it i want to live in the moment five seconds though
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I'm thinking car wrecks. I'm thinking I'd never lose in rock, paper, scissors. Does that have to be your future or just the future? I don't know. I guess the future. There's only five seconds.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Five seconds from now is totally controllable.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, you're saying five seconds into the future right now. Like five seconds.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
No, I'm pretty sure it's just the next five seconds in your future. Oh, five million bucks.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
No, because I think there are things that you're like, wow, that would actually come in handy. I think I'm doing the five seconds. All right. I'm stealing the five. I guess I have too many five millions. So I just feel like I would be.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah. True.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah. You guys are.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Oh, my goodness.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I don't like that. Dude, that's actually a good horror movie right there, dude. Oh, man. I hope you did.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Is that not like the worst? That's so scary.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
11 years of Josh Hooper Sunday cool. What'd you learn in a decade, dude? Over a decade.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I guess that makes sense. They're going around the teeth and the bone.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
So that's what I would look like if I lost all my fat. If I just went on a full diet.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
It really is scary. Like I remember like pulling your like my mouth like your like lips back and stuff and just showing like the full teeth. I'm like this doesn't. It just feels weird.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
We're animals dude. We're straight up animals. Yeah. That's so good. Love it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I think, well, this is maybe.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
So scary. That's why. Usually it's like, follow me on my journey for the next year as I get enough money to buy a sailboat. And it's like, drag it. But the hard cut from in this car, depressed, I want to quit. I want to live my life differently to literally be on the water. That's wild, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Not that I'm aware of. Yeah. That was my thing. As soon as they went blackout, I was like, that's so vulnerable as a country. But they were really peaceful. Did you see that? That was actually sick.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Not a phone inside. It's like, yeah, because they didn't work and obviously they just...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Would you be able to do that, you think, alone? No, no, no, no. Yeah, that would be tough.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I know. That's people that aren't going to believe this. Why wouldn't they? They have the money. They have the resources. They have the land. All of that land underneath, especially in Colorado, all those places, gonzo, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah. We have to continue our country.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
When this stuff gets out, if this thing were to be leaked, which it already has, people realize that. I mean, what are we going to do? We're not going to be on that list. People are going to lose their minds.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Come on. That would give you your shot. You could get something done.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Is that the most secluded you've ever been in Montana? Yeah. What about you? What's the most secluded we've all been? That's interesting. Because I think it tells a lot about your mental health. Like, I'm watching Survivor. Like, we're binge watching it. And I just can't imagine being stranded or alone. I don't know. I think the longest I've had was maybe a couple days. I don't know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
The superhighways, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
You got that technology?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, probably. Now, this has nothing to do with the underground cities, but this is my craziest conspiracy that I think is wacky. And maybe we've talked about it before, but I truly, like, what if this COVID shot that everyone had was literally just an antidote?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
A fume or a bomb gets dropped by an overseas adversary and somehow knocks out all these people who didn't have this COVID shot. Yeah, they want the compliant. Yeah, they want the compliant people. The people that are going to say, hey, when we need you to take a shot, we need you to listen. Yeah. I mean, enough time would pass by.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Maybe something is in our system where 10 years later, we're like, oh, man, this is such a tragedy. It was like, but is it though?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
We know people who passed away from health issues. It was just...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
And we didn't handle it well, unlike Portugal.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, it was really awkward, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, because even if you didn't get your shots, you still got tested. Yeah. They still swabbed your mouth, everything. A million times, yeah. Biometric data.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
If you have a smartphone, it's gone.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Oh, geez.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
It's so funny. But it's like, at the end of the day, aren't we just doing this to ourselves? Isn't the government giving exactly what human nature wants? It's just what we want, which is sin. It's just distraction.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Okay, so I just have to give you my face, and you give me a discount on this stuff, or I give an ability to go on my phone and do this, that, that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
It's like size four.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, they know that, though. They're just like, just click this button. You're fine, dude. We own you, actually. You just gave us your house. Congratulations. There is something like that, you know. Something with the government that we're signing that it's like, when things all go crazy, it's like, no, we're legally allowed to do this. Yeah. What? Why? Oh, the thing you signed 20 years ago?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
That's ours.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I didn't know you guys knew about him. I watched 20 minutes of his speech thing on YouTube. It scared me so much.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Imagine being peace and light and then dressing all like that and just speaking the way you do.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah. David Copperfield did that too. So it's not a big deal.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
They never did. Because everyone blinked at the same time. It was gone.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Phoenix. Also, once again, Phoenix is the desert. Also, whenever we talk about like, you know, like you prophesy my name, you perform miracles in my name, yet I never knew you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
So it's like that doesn't say anything.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
27 knots. Don't tie your thing on with 27 knots then. Yeah. It'd be easier to come off, you know? Yeah. I didn't know he was a Boy Scout.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Farther away because they're scary. Because they're enemies. Why would you want to keep them close? I understood that phrase.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
And like, I watched the video like of their service or something and it was trippy. It was like really kind of messed me up. It was weird.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
No, thank you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah. But, um, what about NASA? Do you see that thing with like the, the lunar eclipse or something like NASA confirmed the date of the crucifixion? Oh yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, but, like, how the skies were darkened, and literally April 3rd, I think, is the day they chose. April 3rd, like, for a lunar or solar eclipse or something that happened on that day. Wow.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Are you sick?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Once again, no physical evidence that goes against the Bible. Nothing.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I am Spartacus. Is it that one? No?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
That one's called Spartacus, I think, maybe.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Five minutes ago, you said you could run a mile. We got some chips. You want some chips?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah. People need to listen. People need to check out Ben Hur. It's kind of slept on. Yeah. People aren't talking about this movie enough, man. But remember, did you guys ever watch the remake of it? No. Terrible. Really? I don't doubt it because it's the other one. I've never seen it, but I know that one's a legend. It's shot beautifully, too. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
And also people complain about how long movies are. They've always had long movies. Yeah. It's just some directors. Dude, they had intermissions in movies. You get an intermission in this movie.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Lord of the Rings. Yeah. I've been falling asleep to Lord of the Rings for the past five nights, and it makes me sleep like a baby.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
You know the parable of where Jesus says a guy goes and finds a field and he finds a hidden treasure in that field and sells everything he owns to buy that lot of land. And they leave it out. But later on, one of the disciples came back and Judas came back and just took all the buried treasure.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Probably.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
That's crazy, though. How mad?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
We're doing a... Yeah, we had a fan send a bunch of Texas snacks from H-E-B, baby.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Oh my gosh.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
A butter... Yes. Korean barbecue flavor. Korean barbecue flavor. Sure. It's not Korean. Yeah. It's from Texas. H-E-B, baby. We got a butter tortilla candle in there. Oh, my gosh. They sent some little bows for the girls. It's really cute, like cow hide.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
We'll get her a tea. Yeah. That'd be so cool. Jane Goodall on one of our teas. Let's go. Seven feet tall. That's wild. Dude, I saw that video of the gorilla, Coco, getting the word that Robin Williams died. Like they signed to him that he died and the gorilla cried. And it was the saddest thing. Dang.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Because he had like bonded with it and stuff like that and visited throughout the years and stuff. So sad. Oh, man. Make me want to cry.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Do you see Trump has a 2028 merch?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
On his actual website.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
And with a lightsaber on.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah. He loves staying in the picture.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Not going to lie.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, 100%.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
What do you do? I'll just say. We'll just tease it, and then we can dive deeper into another specific story or something.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
That's why you've been acting like that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah. Tell me the situation. You said the one girl who had it. What happened to her? Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I mean, yeah. History is filled with tons of people that. We're really smart, but also we're diving into this occult stuff and getting answers from this stuff. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
That's the thing. It could be an evil truth. It could be things like Satan's giving you these clues and you don't know it's Satan. Like the serpent at the tree. He's just laying it out for you. It's going to work. Not the way God wants it to, but it's going to work.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, and you're going to have full freedom to do whatever you want. Why would you not want that? Which was the truth. It's the evil truth. Yeah, it's the dark truth.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
A torment.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
But it's like 1800s psychiatry and people like that were really big in that time is kind of fascinating to me. Because it all leads to what we're doing now.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
And it's everything that's led, like the astral projection, all that stuff, that started from guys in the 1910s that were really smart and were studying, that were claimed to be really great people in their fields, but then have just been outcast because they dive into this stuff. And it's scary and it's weird and it's supernatural.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Even herbology. There's one guy who literally like did the astral projection stuff. He was studying herbology before. Was it Monroe? Yeah. I can't remember what it was. Monroe is like the leader of like astral projection and stuff like that. But it's like, how do you get there to there? You know?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
And so it's like, but you think about the watchers and the root cutting and the, like, I mean, it's like, there's, I mean, there's such, it's just a huge web, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
It's also where you're starting and where you want to go. Because if you're starting that process and you think this is my destination, a Freud point of view, you're already fixated on that and you're not allowing God's plan of your mind and your biology to get through this.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Instead, we're taking this human and we're putting all of our chips in on this ideology when in reality it's like we don't know how our brains work. And we should, you know, we should look into people who do understand it and not hold ourself down. Because it's like, yeah, maybe an old man in a dream could mean this.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
But what if God's trying to point, like, just like, don't pay attention that he's an old man. I'm trying to teach you something else. Like, we hold on to certain things that we believe is true. In reality, it's just... My brain's full of spaghetti.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Transforming in the renewal of your mind.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
That comes sacrificing God. You can't do that. You can't quit worrying about it because then you're just bearing it. It's like the renewal of your mind. That's God's work.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
I think we overcomplicated it a lot. I know our feelings are very complicated, but I think it becomes very black and white at a certain thing. It's like, who are we trusting? Are you trusting yourself to deal with this or trusting the person who created you?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, that's where we're hitting that, right? I mean, with moms? Yeah, okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
That's right. Download the app today. You get an extra episode every single week. You get these episodes early every week. Discount codes on March behind the scenes content. All the, all that you want. Yeah. Patreon.com. You can cancel anytime. Super easy. Go start now because it's a lot of fun. We love hanging out with you out there.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah. Listen, go to Spotify. Leave us a review. We were off Spotify for like a blink last week. Yeah. But now we're back. Please leave us a review. It helps us even if you don't listen on Spotify. If you leave a review on Spotify, we're going up in the rankings. We're like top 17, 18 last week in the country in comedy podcasts. All because of you guys and your reviews. So that helps out a lot.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Also, get yourself a free t-shirt. Sundaycoolswag.com. And if you want to order bulk t-shirts, you go to Sundaycool.com and we'll print your shirts for you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Yeah, if you give like 20 bucks or something, we'll give it to you for free. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Is it, though? I don't know. Because we work hard on these songs. Yeah. This is 141 episodes and it's just, we're doing our best. We're giving you guys what we want to give you. This is how we express our love for you guys. And for you guys just to skip past, it sucks. It hurts our feelings.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Nicer ones, hopefully. Really a rich neighborhood dumpster like a Hobby Lobby dumpster.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
What a life that would have led you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Golly, dude. That was powerful. That gets me.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Did you see Lady Gaga perform in front of 2 million people in Brazil? Yeah, did you see it got canceled because of a bomb threat?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Well, she performed a little bit, though, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
One of the biggest concerts in history. I think Rod Stewart had one that's like a big one in Brazil as well. Brazil's huge. Brazil liked the party, dude. Did you guys know that Brazil's huge? Did you know Brazil likes the party?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
Brazil?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
There's definitely no precedent for it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
141 - Real ID, The Antichrist, and Government Built Underground Cities!
It would be awesome if she puked on the pod, though.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
Ja, es ist gut, dich zu hören, Josh. Gut, dich zu hören.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
Detective Danny Dingalong.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
I'll never forget that night. The dame walked in.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
Das Case ist seit 10 Jahren geschlossen.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
Mein langer Partner, mein langer Partner, Christopher Kluselot.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
I have in front of me now a manila envelope and I have the information about Andy's father.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
I nearly died. I had to go down to the docks. I went down to the docks at night time.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
I followed the leads. I kept pulling on the string until the sweater unraveled. Okay. Okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
And I'm here to say, as confident as the sun rises in the east, Andy's father is John Wayne.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
That's him. How is that possible? Yeah. Wait. Hold on. Hold on.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
Did you say cowboy?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
I missed the back of the page. John Wayne Gacy. Oh no.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
That's the one.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
But I think, what I think you should do, I've been around the block. Was du tun solltest, ist, deinen Vater als den Cowboy zu erinnern, den du gedacht hättest.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
Danny Ding-a-ling. Sorry, sorry.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
Danny Ding-a-ling is the name. P.I. is my game.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
Danny, Danny Dingalong?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
Well, that... Das ist ein Problem mit dem DNA. Viele Leute sprechen davon nicht. Wir können das DNA sehen, aber es gibt keine Werkzeuge, die es mit dem DNA verbinden können. Es gibt so viele Werkzeuge. Es gibt tatsächlich viele Werkzeuge.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
This is the first time you've ever heard of these companies? Sure. Why don't we talk about astrology as well and other pretend scientists that aren't real? Okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
This guy's attitude sucks. DNA cannot be matched and everyone knows this.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
Okay? Yeah. Now here's the thing. I followed the breadcrumbs. What's Andy's last name? Danoon. When does noon happen? The middle of the day. Day rhymes with gay. See. John Wayne Gacy. Okay. It was all right in front of me the whole time. That's not bad. Okay. Wow. No. Lefty? That's because I took care of that case.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
Let me just say, I want to wish Mandy a happy birthday. And I hope that this made... I hope this made her day a little bit more special. And... And hey, I'm just a big fan of the show. Love what you guys do.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
Danny Dingaling, P.I.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
Yeah, where can we... I'll send you the... You go to my website. Danny Dingaling, PI, Dingaling. Thanks, Danny, I really appreciate it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
128 - Trump's Call to War, The D.C. Crash, and The Tree of Good and Evil
DNA isn't real. Happy birthday, guys.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Quoted in the Daily Mail. Like, read the quote. Okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
We're here, we're back, and we're ready to fly. 136 is here. 136 is here. The news is out.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
200.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Love. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Stay tuned. We will know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Who needs a driver's license? Put the car in my garage. Brought to you by Raj, Raj, Raj, Raj, Raj.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
No! Get out! Dumb idea!
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
And another thing. Technology.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
If you stay tuned, you'll know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
By the way, before I go, trains. Everyone, shh.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Locomotives. The steam engine. You can see it now. Mr. Roosevelt. Why use gasoline when we can use water? Steam engines. You still need coal. No.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Guys, look, look.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
32.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
100%.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
That's it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Oh, man. I knew I was going to speak that fast, you guys. Purple rain. Purple. Dude. Gosh. Dang it! i'm gonna start over okay all right starting from the scratch what's your favorite color that's not like south park i do have the code red conspiracy so this is a quote from a prestigious website named reddit um
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Yeah, that was it. The Maui Burst one. That's way specific. This is nuts.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
I don't know if I've asked this before.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Does he now? I don't know. Maybe we should find out. I really, really want to know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
24.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
What is the point of that commercial? That's crazy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Austin. It is.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
55515.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
55515.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
All right, guys. We love you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
She doesn't like it. Yeah, and it's cringe. And like, oh, this is like domestic abuse. So we stopped doing the question. It was like 10 episodes ago.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Hold on.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Oh, my gosh. Do you not care about this podcast? Do you not care about our fans? Well, you don't care about the podcast or the fans?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
I hate the questions. I'm always being gaslighted. Ugh.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
yeah and then we're like okay yeah and we're gonna stop and we expected her decision and we we stopped it like a long time ago but then yet she wants to bring it up and act like it's not a big deal and make us feel bad because we forgot the question that she specifically asked us not to do andrew are we going crazy or it's like what's happening i think she like misses it
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Are you calling us and our viewers dumb? We're dumb to you?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Okay, well, I guess you guys heard it here first. Lily thinks we're dumb, she thinks you're dumb, and she likes to just make everyone feel dumb. What was that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Gong's in a bad mood today. I can hear you. How we doing, guys?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
Come to bed. I'm afraid you don't know anything about cults. There's nothing in the night sky. Come on, you silly man. You're fascinated with the sky. What is that?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
136 - Pyramid Secrets Uncovered, Quantum Teleportation, & The Carolina Cryptids
I just had the most shocking experience. I need a light on because... What is this? Where are your hands? What?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Magic Mind.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I had to process. I was just like, where am I going with this? I did not shake that enough. Make sure to shake it. It does say shake it. Woo! That's very good, though. Get those brain juices flowing. Hey, make sure to go to magicmind.com forward slash ninja and use the code ninja20 to receive 20% off your subscription or 50% off your 10-day subscription.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
You're fueling us today. Fueling us. I already had a lot of caffeine, so we'll see what that does. I'll probably just sustain the caffeine until tomorrow.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Who needs sleep, dude? I don't need sleep. Dude, sleep is for the wake. Sleep is for the wake. Hey, so crazy year. Dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
And it's getting crazier. What do you mean? Well, truth is, we're filming this about a week before the New Year, so we don't actually know what 2025 is like right now.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
No, not two or three weeks.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Bad friend. Bad friend.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
A week, a week and about a week, week and a half.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
So some crazy stuff has happened.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Well, you guys know. I don't want to try to talk about current topics too much.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
But this one did stick out to me. This is actually from a week ago when we're filming this. So you know the whole conflict in Syria, right? The Syrian rebels. Keep it up. Catch me up with it. Okay, so the Syrian rebels took over. They overthrew the government. Okay. So the family, I forget the guy's name, but him and his father, they've been rulers over Syria for the past 50 years.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Not the best of dudes. They put a lot of, they had like a ton of political prisoners. If you spoke out against the government, whatever prison, he apparently used chemical warfare on his own people. Not a good guy. So the rebels took over. I'm not going to say whether they're good or bad.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yeah, but they're also considered a terrorist organization from the United States of America. But with this breakout and conflict, it's like Turkey and Israel, they're starting to fight over different regions of Syria now. Okay. And Israel... For the first time since 1974, now has complete control over Mount Hermon. That's never happened? No, since 1974.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
He's a millionaire now.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Just kidding. I don't know. He's probably still selling sunglasses on the beach. Who is that? TikTok.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I thought that was very, very interesting.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I don't know. I think that it has to mean something because it's a very critical piece of territory.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I just thought that was very strange since Syria has held claim over Mount Hermon.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
since 1974 and then just this with everything that's happening in the world and the war breaking out stuff and also it's like now israel is in control of it and i thought that was crazy that's all by coincidence it's probably very intentional so like what are they what are they after what do they mean yeah i don't know but also do you see that you did i know you maybe did did you do you see that giant bomb that they're calling the earthquake bomb go off i did see that
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
That looked straight out of a movie, dude. It called the earthquake bomb because it literally caused like a 3.2 magnitude earthquake.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Well, they said that they dropped it over an armory. So, like, that's why there was the biggest explosion. So, I don't know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
In Syria. In Syria. All right, yeah, I believe Syria.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
By Israel. Maybe it was dropped in Turkey.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Goofing off.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Hold on.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
And then obviously when this comes out, we'll probably either know more or know less about all these orbs and drones and craziness. So you guys watching this, you're probably like, I can't believe you guys were living in this time. Now like aliens are literally taking over the world. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yes. Come on. I watched this video from this guy yesterday. His name is Chase Hughes. This guy. Chase Hughes. And apparently he's... Wow. Bravo. That was a nine, dude. Apparently he's trained military, CIA, FBI, and PSYOP stuff.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
And he did this video, and it was very informative. And his theory is that this is all a psyop thing. It's like a psychological warfare kind of thing. And he thinks, he's like, one thing that you always have to question is what is happening in this current, it could be anything, is what is happening. That doesn't sound right coming out of my mouth.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Whatever is happening, will it potentially change laws and give more control to the government? could it potentially change laws and could it give more power to the government? So if there was this threat of something that we don't know, could that change a law and could it give the government more power? And I would say yes.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I don't know. It's just like, so what's happening now? Could it be that there is, we find out it is a threat, but it's not really a threat, that it's our own government posing a threat? I don't think we'll ever find that out.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Shout out to Mike Lawson. Yeah. He works at Sendero. And he sent us a lot of stuff that we've been wearing. Like this t-shirt. Like this t-shirt. And we've been wearing their hats a lot too.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
But yeah, they're calling the orbs plasmoids.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I'm a nerd. But apparently, there's this article by Forbes that came out in 2020, and it's titled, U.S. Navy Laser Creates Plasma UFOs. And so apparently, they have this technology, the U.S. Navy does, to where they can literally make plasma bubbles. What? And the whole point of it is to...
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
You know, like when like fighter pilots, when they're flying and they'll shoot the flares off the back to defer or whatever. Glitter, dude.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yeah. Chaff. But they have the technology to make plasma bubbles, apparently.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Oh, yeah, it is.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
It's, no, it's like electrified gas.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Or just look up the definition of plasma.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Plasma.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yeah, so the sun is plasma. Apparently, I found this out. Not apparently. I found this out that apparently the sun is just a plasma ball. Which sun? All. Okay, got it. Well, there's a the sun and there's stars. There's two suns, right? Oh, right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
They could be fake, or they could be from not this world or this realm.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Don't get too far ahead.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Another theory is, remember we talked about a couple weeks ago, or I guess a couple months ago now, of what James Webb was calling the alien motherships that were course-corrected towards Earth?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
And they said, it could be a couple years, it could be a couple days, we don't know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Could it be?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Don't let fear control you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
It did. Oh, no. Oh, man. Are we even real? Speaking of two sons. Yeah. I showed you guys. Did you watch the video I sent you? Stop burping so much. Mute your mic. The one about the flat earth stuff.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yeah, well, yeah, but it took these guys that long. Yeah. Yeah, so this one guy brought a bunch of flat earthers, like prominent flat earthers on YouTube and stuff to Antarctica. Yeah. to show them that the sun will be up for 24 hours. Cause according to their model, that's impossible. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yeah. They're fake. Okay. What do you want? Yeah. And every single one of them, it's like it ruined their life.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yes. I'm just happy that I figured that out by myself. Yeah, you did. Yeah. Did you explain two sons away though? Did I explain that away?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
It just has a faster rotation around Earth than the sun does.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yeah, and it's smaller.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
This is the sun, right? That's the sun around Earth, and then the moon's like this.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
probably on the other side of the world or the moon faces like the dark moon or what is it called new moon yeah if we see if we see it during our daytime sometimes don't you think other people probably see it during their daytimes as well this is the most dumb this whole episode we've just been a bunch of dummies we should just stop talking about stuff
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
We're just losing so much credibility on this episode.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
No, it is going like that because it rises in the east, sets in the west.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
This is great.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
That's what's beautiful about ninjas are butterflies.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
that's still a lesson taught though yeah so we're all learning um also there are a lot of people around america and the world they're hearing these big booms and i heard one remember the other night i'm like were there fireworks yeah i didn't hear it though i heard a little last week but it was like i was like laying down it had to been like what 10 or 11 no i just i was putting the girls down that's why i hear it so like eight eight ish and it was just like
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Boom. Fireworks. I looked up. There's no fireworks around. Okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
There it is.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Anyways.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I saw someone like did a video in Tampa. This other dude, I think it was like Idaho or something. But the guy from, I believe he was from Idaho. He said his was weird. Cause he's like hearing these weird booms and like these crazy noises and
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
And he said, I was driving through the vast wherever, and he's like, I just noticed that there's a lot of these same exact trucks with campers, like exact models. And he was on the side of the road, and one pulled up and was talking to him. He's like, hey, have you heard those booms? And the guy in the truck, he's like, yeah, man, those are crazy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
And he noticed that their license plates didn't match up with the state's license plates fully. And then as he was leaving, he said, I forget the guy's name, but he's like, all right, I'll see you later, Brett. And the guy's like. You knew his name? Yeah. Oh, no. It's just weird stuff. That's strange, man. I don't know. Hey, who are we to say? Hey, what are we to say? I don't know.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
There's this one. Who am I? Oh, listen to this. I don't know if this is real. Let's say it is. I think people in, like, New Jersey. Hold on. Yeah, this is in New Jersey. Apparently some people were recording weird audio coming into their radios. Listen to this. I hope this is real because it's crazy and it's really spooky. You hope it is real? I don't know. It is real. All right, listen. Ready?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
It is real.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Hold on.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Here's the other one. Okay, this one says. It's so scary. I've been hearing these sounds in my backyard for a couple nights now. This one, people in the comments, let me know if this is just an animal, but it's terrifying. He's filming his backyard.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yeah. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
like whoever says get rid of lily i i i i'm changing just kidding just kidding um i did see this one crazy thing speaking of ufos and plasma bubbles and mysterious noises this one guy was on this documentary 1999 good year Great year. And he said that he had a contact at Area 51. It wasn't Area 51. It was whatever's by it. It's like whatever lake. Groom Lake? Maybe. We'll just call it Area 51.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Okay. Sure. Lake Area 51. And he's like, can you tell me the things that are there? And he says, this is a quote. He says, there's a lot of things out there that I won't be able to tell you until 2025. That's coming up. But we have things in the Nevada desert that would make George Lucas envious. But that was in 1999. He's like, I can't tell you until 2025. Yeah. And now we're... We're here.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Here. We're here. The congressional hearings are happening. The disclosure stuff is happening.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
As a nation?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
You never know. You never know. But what you do know is what you don't know. And what we don't know is that we got an answer. Don't go anywhere.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
That's right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Why are you calling me out like that in the middle of this ad?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I read one time. That's too much salt. Does it feel like walking on glass a little bit?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
It's been, what, eight episodes since it's been just us four? No.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
See, that's how it feels. That's how you feel, I guess. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
That was a fun ad. Yeah. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Whatever.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yeah, because your return was Sam Tripoli, then Anthony, and then there's Tim Albarino. Totally.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Fresh herbs. The question really is, what's your favorite soup?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
We shouldn't name our own. We should name each other's.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
You're just broth.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Let me explain. Let me explain. Yes. How do you make all soups? What do you need? A lot of complicated ingredients. But you need broth.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I don't know if I like this. Don't say intimate. I don't think I like this. Don't say that. Don't.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Wow. That was like a compliment. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I don't know what it is, so I'm offended. What'd you call me? In Mexico, it's like the chocolate soup. It's not really a soup.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
You can just eat it straight up.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
What defines a soup? You can say it. The essence of it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I don't know a plethora.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I like like bisque, like seafood bisque.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Clam chowder is my favorite soup.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Wanton soup. That's a compliment.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Some kind guy. That can maybe be yours because it's like coconut base, coconut milk base. You're a little nutty.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Andrew, hit us with a beat.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I don't have any favorites at all. I have favorites. Oh, Instagram?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Oh, I thought you were texting it. All right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Uncle's spunk-o? Yeah. Spunk-o? Okay, ready? Three, two, hey, hey.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
That's absolutely insane.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
With the beers and everything.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Toy Story. That's what I'm talking about. Oh, yeah. Speaking of movies. Speaking of movies... Let's talk about our top five movies in 2024.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
This really is just for Andy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I'm outside. Tell everyone how many 2024 movies, released movies you saw this year. I saw 30.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Wow, that's crazy. That's crazy, isn't it? Yeah. I got them all listed right here. My list is basically what I saw. Yeah. Mine too. I was afraid of that, but I saw a lot more than I want.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I have a list of seven just because I think I really only saw seven movies. I did 10. All right. Starting off at number seven, I'm going to say Cato Lake. Cato Lake. Yeah. Cato Lake.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
You haven't watched it. You would love it.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
yeah uh number six i'll put uh gladiator 2 nice i haven't seen that one there's a lot of that i haven't seen yet it was fun dang uh number five i'll do wild robot yeah so good uh number four i'll do uh civil war Nice. Wow. Nice.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
You're a woman. No, yeah. Oh. Yeah. You're the funniest woman. She's the funniest lady. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yeah. Number three. I mixed them all up. Number three, Deadpool Wolverine. Nice. It's pretty inappropriate, but it was funny. It was a good time. Number two, Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes. Nice. Oh, I forgot about that one. Dang. And number one, obviously.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
The Grinch. Dune 2. Perfect.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Hey, do you want to... You want a song?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
That's with Henry Cavill, right?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
To kick off 2025?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Ew. With Conor McGregor. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Oh, well, 2025. We did it last year. We're going to do it again this year. What are our five predictions?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
What episode was that? 57 or something?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
All right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
That'd be sick.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I think it will be one that we're not even thinking about. I think it will be either Pakistan or India.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Well, they hate each other, Pakistan and India. Yeah. Like they're always at turmoil.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yeah. Number two, first contact or more insane UFO sightings? Yeah, for sure. Um, and I think that it'll be like the disclosure, like, well, they'll like start showing like, like really high definition videos and pictures and they'll be crazy. Yeah. Uh, number three, this is not a fun one. Uh, major California earthquake that we kind of been talking about. Yeah. Like a really big one.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yeah. You saw the videos?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Like, it's crazy. It was like a shopping plaza.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
It literally feels like the day after tomorrow. Yeah. Spooky. Number four, AI shows first real sign of a threat and regulations are put into place. Yeah. Okay. I did a run on sentence.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yeah, I think because there's going to be something with AI to where everyone's going to be like, whoa, that's not cool. That's what I'm thinking. Like maybe shooting a nuke off.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
And number five. Here it is. Kind of similar to Lily's. Something will happen to the U.S. and they'll try to have another lockdown, whether that be UFOs, terrorist attack, or a new virus.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I didn't hear about that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Got a bird flu? Yeah, there's like 34 people in California that have this new bird flu. Cool.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Yeah. Forgery. I think the person of the year will be Mr. Beast. And it won't be a good. Okay.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Did you see, I don't know by the time this comes out, but he apparently rented out the pyramids of Egypt.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I thought that wasn't legal. I didn't know either. Apparently he'll have full access to the pyramids for a hundred hours. Just him and his crew. And so they can explore any part of the pyramid they want.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
That's scary. Could you imagine?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
This is what's going to happen. Mr. Beast is literally going to go into a cavern deep, deep down to the pyramid. And be possessed. And then that's where this ancient relic of the Watchers is. Ancient knowledge. He's going to come back with all this ancient knowledge.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, man.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Oh, yeah. So we'll see what 2025 is like. I love how all of ours are like almost really depressing. It's okay. Yeah. It's all right.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
How about we do a prediction that we'll be on the Joe Rogan podcast this year?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Should we change anything about the podcast?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
You guys, if there's one thing that you would either add, we're not taking anything away. What would you add?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Get a new studio?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Whoa. In 2025.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
All right, that'll be our goal. By the end of 2025, we'll have a new studio.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I'll shave my head. Just kidding. That's too much.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I look like a real nerd with short hair.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Oh, geez. Probably 2013. And it wasn't that short either.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
He shaved off the back and the sides. Shave it off the back. Shave it off the back and the sides. Hey, should we talk about some other stuff on Patreon?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Oh, yes.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I had to look up what ricin poison was because I had no idea what it was. What is it? It's a highly toxic plant protein derived from castor beans. Interesting.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I guess so. And... The tiniest bit will kill you. It can cause death within three days if ingested.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
That's absolutely nuts. Yeah. Inhaled, ingested, or skin exposure.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
That's crazy.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Listen, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure you can't do that. Did you see the video of those guys? You know, like on TikTok, there's like the lawyers react. Oh, yeah, yeah. They watch something. Yeah, that's illegal. They're seeing these guys pretending to be lawyers, and they're watching John Wick 2. Like, yeah, that's illegal. You can't murder people like that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
That's fascinating. That's so interesting.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Well, here's to 2025. Hey, cheers, pal. And here's to 2024. Hey! We won't miss you.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I know this was a collab one, but it's in an old VHS.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Look at that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
They never do. All right. Make sure to subscribe to you or YouTube. Give us five stars and everything. Follow us on Spotify. Follow us on Apple. Comment your predictions. Also comment what would you want to add to this podcast?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Love you guys. Bye.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
You guys are mean. No, you are just ruining the flow.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
We all did shocked. We all did.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Henry Cavill. Yeah.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
It doesn't matter because everyone just be quiet.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Lil. No, no, no, no, no.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Lil? Has she lost?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
He does. Cavill. You mean Superman. We've all seen it. We watched the trailer. We're moving on because we have a question. Please stop.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
Continue. Everyone, please. 2024 was crazy, alright? We have a new year to look forward to. Thanks. This question I think I think we're going to start off on the right foot.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
We learn stuff.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
See? Oh, look at that. New year. We can do it. See, we can do that. We don't always have to gaslight. We are new me. It's not like we try to gaslight. No, and it's a new slate. So if there's anything anybody wants to say, just get off your chest. Is there anything anyone wants to say?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
What do you mean?
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
You're a woman, but you want to take a woman's rights away? What brought that up? Surely she did not. I did not say that.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I think you should apologize, Lil. For real, though.
Ninjas Are Butterflies
123 - Area 51 Secrets, Elvis' FBI Conspiracy, & Wild 2025 Predictions
I mean, you guys heard it here first. Apparently, Lily does have some regrets about this past year because she wants the rights of women to be taken away.
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NFL Divisional Round, Fastest 2 Minutes, Commanders And Eagles On A Collision Course, Bills Outlast Ravens And Head To Kansas City + Who's Back Of The Week
I like that. They hate us because they ain't us.
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NFL Divisional Round, Fastest 2 Minutes, Commanders And Eagles On A Collision Course, Bills Outlast Ravens And Head To Kansas City + Who's Back Of The Week
Does this have anything to do with the fact that... I told him to take notes and then bring it up in the Eagles.
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NFL Divisional Round, Fastest 2 Minutes, Commanders And Eagles On A Collision Course, Bills Outlast Ravens And Head To Kansas City + Who's Back Of The Week
Jalen Carter.
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NFL Divisional Round, Fastest 2 Minutes, Commanders And Eagles On A Collision Course, Bills Outlast Ravens And Head To Kansas City + Who's Back Of The Week
Yeah. Memes? I woke up. I was going to root for PFT to win the Super Bowl. And then he tweeted a picture of Amy Schumer interviewing for the Jets head coaching job.
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NFL Divisional Round, Fastest 2 Minutes, Commanders And Eagles On A Collision Course, Bills Outlast Ravens And Head To Kansas City + Who's Back Of The Week
They're talking to everybody. That's all the joke was. But we get to stay in New Orleans till Monday.
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NFL Divisional Round, Fastest 2 Minutes, Commanders And Eagles On A Collision Course, Bills Outlast Ravens And Head To Kansas City + Who's Back Of The Week
I know misery sells, but has... Anything positive happen to you guys that we know the outcome of that? Numbers wise? Number wise. Double Doink was the most listened to podcast. No, misery, dude. Misery. Has anything positive happened?
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NFL Divisional Round, Fastest 2 Minutes, Commanders And Eagles On A Collision Course, Bills Outlast Ravens And Head To Kansas City + Who's Back Of The Week
Hank celebrating the Boston Celtics went viral.
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NFL Divisional Round, Fastest 2 Minutes, Commanders And Eagles On A Collision Course, Bills Outlast Ravens And Head To Kansas City + Who's Back Of The Week
Jack is here.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Oh, gosh, I don't know. I'm here until 1. They got me fully loaded. I know that much. Okay, so we're number... By the way, we're at this new Netflix building that they built just for junkets like this. We used to be at a hotel and now they have like, they built actual hotel rooms with room service and a room like this. And they just run us through like a car wash. That's unreal.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Can you get a room in the Netflix hotel junket? Yeah. It's a beautiful room. It's like, you know, five star. Yeah. All right. There's no bed because you can't sleep.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
I did. I rode a horse called JC. We all had our own horse. We actually went to a cowboy camp.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
uh for a couple weeks before we started shooting i hadn't been you know i'm from north dakota we talked about this last time so i was around farms and ranches pretty much my whole life uh but i hadn't been on a horse for 20 years probably so yeah i was i was a little rusty but it was you know it was and i'm i'm not gonna lie it wasn't a huge
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Horse guy, but for whatever reason, I don't know if it was Clay and the guys over there that sort of run this cowboy camp, I really started to love it again for the first time in maybe forever.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Well, they're really well trained, I can tell you that much. Some more than others. JC was a really, he was an older veteran horse, so he was very well behaved, which I liked. I didn't feel like I was going to get bucked off at any minute.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
It is fun. You know, and this whole, you know, there's something about the vibe of this show that I just... because I was actually at my place, at my cabin, when April Blair, the showrunner, called. So I was kind of in this mode anyway. I think I was on my tractor, my side-by-side or something. And we just started talking about this character.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
And, you know, this guy is, you know, he's been through it the last couple of years. Lost his wife a couple of years ago and then lost his son about a year to the day we start the show. So he's been through it. And I think that, you know, that's really what I love is this guy was not just, he doesn't have it all together. He's pretty broken. He's pretty surly.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
And, you know, that fits my character. I fit right into that.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
You're like the Pink Panther.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
I bought the place like 15, 16 years ago with nothing on it. It was literally, the first thing I bought was a floating dock. And then the property next to that went up for sale and had a little hunting shack with no electricity or water. And then a couple of years after that, Another one went up for sale right next door with a little cabin right on the water.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
So then I suddenly had two little cabins, no water, no wells, but one of them had electricity. So for the first 10 years, we would be, you know, it was outhouses and it was washing dishes in the lake.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
And finally, we built something that's actually, you know, a little bit more suited for modern times. And we have running water now and we have wells and we have showers and we even have a dishwasher. So, you know, we're living a really posh life out there.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Josh, is he gone? At times, yeah, I think people do wonder that. It is, you know, it was just something that I felt like I wanted to do. I'd never, you know, I didn't grow up with a lake cabin. I didn't have anything like that, but I had friends who did, and I always loved it. I loved that lake life. So it just became the play.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
And especially during COVID, we spent a lot of time just cause nothing was going on. We just lived out there and we're, we're building and, you know, cutting trails and, and just sort of shaping it. And then over the last few years, especially it's really come along. So yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a lot of fun.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Well, I'm getting there. Uh, You know, the whole thing runs on propane if I need it to, the generator, and I got solar, I got wells. So I have enough water. I'm not much of a hunter yet. I'm working on that. But there's plenty that you could, you know, hunt and eat and fish, you know, if you had to. I could probably survive two weeks. Okay. We're getting there. Two weeks is pretty good. Yeah.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
It's always been a fear of mine, like the idea that something happens and everything goes sideways. The problem is, how would I get there? Because the freeways in LA can lock up pretty quickly. So I've gone through all these scenarios where Do I get a dirt bike and take the canyons over to a boat that I have rented in a slip over in the marina?
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
And do I drive the boat up the coast where I have a car parked that I can drive from there? I've thought this thing through. I haven't done any of that yet, but it is part of the plan.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Well, yeah, I'm guessing they do probably look at me a little sideways because... But it's not like I'm out there, you know... I don't have like an underground bunker and things like that. It's just mostly... Honestly, what it is, is a place that my kids... Love to go. Right.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
My sister's kids, both my sister's kids, and, you know, hopefully their kids someday will all find it, you know, a place that they can all go to. So I built it not only for me and a place to get away to, but also something I can pass on to them.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Okay. We did it at my cabin last year. Bob, the Bob father, likes to make sure that we take a year off from my place. I don't know if it's because he wants to make sure that he still runs it and I don't.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
But he's very possessive about his buddy games. So last year we did it at my cabin. This year I think we're going to Montana. Yeah. But every year is like Christmas. The guys put it on the calendar and they all show up.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
No, we did introduce the Hall of Fame last year. Chad Hornbarker got the maroon jacket. Love it. As far as injuries, Chris Watson woke up to go take a piss in the middle of the night, stood up, passed out, and, like, literally –
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
broke the left side of his face oh my god like oh my god what is you know so i don't know if that's an indicator that we're we are getting old or what but he was uh but he still competed oh i love that that's that's how dedicated he was that's hockey tough yeah i love that's it's amazing what events did we do last year we did uh We did the usuals, golf, wiffle ball.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
We built a wiffle ball field down on the sort of half in the lake, half on land. We had a chipping contest where we chipped from this upper ridge down onto the beach, and you had to lay there, spread eagle, and you got to wear a motorcycle helmet, but that was it. That and your underwear. Yeah.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
There was a shin shot. We didn't quite get the nut shot, but yeah, you know, you send one up about 80 yards and it comes down, that ball's moving by the time it hits. So yeah, it was, it wasn't our most, it wasn't our most ridiculous event, but, oh, we also did, we also did like this amazing croquet. where I mowed fairways all through the yard and all the undulations.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
We literally met a golf course and did it like a croquet field. And that, surprisingly, was the favorite event last year. Well, yeah, that's... Another indicator that we may be getting old.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
We mowed fairways the whole thing, so if you got off track, you're in the rough. It was actually really fun. Yeah. I know it doesn't sound like it, but it was one of the best events.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
We did win last year. It's still under protest.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Me and my team did win it last year, but of course, you know, These guys, you know, they're just a bunch of babies.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Okay.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
It really is. And Chad Kelly, yeah, I'm calling you out. Chad Kelly was the biggest culprit last year, man. He was tripping the whole time. So, anyway. Yeah, they seem to find loopholes. Everybody desperately wants to win this thing. It's hilarious.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Your competitor lost.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Yes and no. I mean, I've, I've, I've run into Aaron a bunch of years and he's, he's actually a really fun dude. He loves to give me, he loves to give it to me about the Vikings, especially when he was with the Packers. So, uh, It just didn't – it kind of felt like it did when Favre came.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Yeah, Favre maybe had his best year of all – his whole career, but it didn't feel like he was fully one of the Vikings, you know. So I don't think I could – I don't think, you know, even if we did win, it feels like we would almost need an asterisk next to it or something. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what JJ is going to do. Look, I saw him on the sidelines when I was at the –
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Well, I went to the... What did I do? I went to the Lions game, last game of the season, and then I went to the... No, I went to the Packers, then the Lions. And... JJ's a hell of a quarterback, but, man, he doesn't look very big down there. He looks like he's about 16 years old.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Yeah. He's a hell of a quarterback, so we'll see.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
I was really impressed. I did not see that. I don't think any Vikings fans saw last year coming. We thought it was going to be a 500 year and it turned out to be one of the most exciting years we've had. And Sam Donald was a big reason for that. Now, you know, I don't want to blame him entirely for that.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Those last couple of games, he did not play well, but you know, he was also, he also got pressured like crazy.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
I think that, I think that, you know, the pressure of the game, the situation, and then, you know, the amount of pressure he was getting from the, from the defense, I think was, was a little bit too much, but I, apparently we did reload on the offensive line, which is good. Did you guys see that?
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Looks good. And I think that, um, you know, we definitely have the, the weapons on offense, uh, With J.J. and Addison and who else we got? Hawkinson. Hawkinson. Yeah. It's a really high-powered offense. Defense is going to be good. But then again, you've got Caleb coming up with the Bears. You've got – what's his name? Jordan Love with the Packers. And the Lions are going to be good.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
They're going to be really good. So I don't know. We could be first or we could be last.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Yeah. I think that's the perfect hire for the Bears, too. Yeah, Ben Johnson, yeah. We've said that many years, haven't we?
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
What do you guys think of Caleb?
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Yeah, but Caleb looked good at times, too. He did, but he also looked bad. Let's see how talented that dude is.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
What do they have as receivers?
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
You know, I haven't been, I've been, I was in London for the last several months. I'm normally follow the draft like months in advance, but I don't know much about it this year. It stinks.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Well, I mean, what are the bikes need? I think it's, Maybe a safety after Harrison leaves. Yeah. Malachi Starks. Malachi Starks. Georgia would be good. Yeah. I don't know. What were you doing in London? I was directing a movie called Preschool. Oh, okay. That's cool. About these two dads who are fighting to get their kid into this last spot in this preschool. Do you like directing?
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Is that a nice change of pace? I do. It is all encompassing. It is very time consuming and it's a lot of work, but it's a lot of fun because you get to kind of tell the story the way you see it. I think that that is something I've always wanted to do. I couldn't just do that because I really like spending time with my family too. And when you're doing that, you're pretty much
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
you know, belong to whatever production it is. But it is a lot of fun. The movie's turning out great. It's funny.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
He bit somebody.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
That's my boy. It's your boy, right?
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Bullshit. You know, when I had kids, I never thought that I'd get caught up in all of it. But you can't help but to, you know, because, you know, where I grew up, there was no private school. We just, everybody went to public school. And... When I had my first son, you know, getting into, I figured he's going to be fine. He'll go to the public school down the street.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
And sure enough, when it came time where we were getting caught up in the whole thing of, you know, will he get into this school? He would get into that school. And sure enough, there we are. So, um, I think that it's, it's a, it's a premise that a lot of people who have kids or know people who have kids will we'll find funny and relate to in some way.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
It is a tricky situation, right? Because on the one hand, you're an actor with them. You're, you're, you're, you're, you're working together. This is one of your, one of your mates, and then you have to turn around and say, hey, could you do that a little bit differently? You would never do that if you're just acting.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
I could never give him a note if it's just he and I in the scene together, but I... So the key is just to find really good actors, and I got great ones. I mean, when you shoot in London... it's just full of them. Like everybody's West end trained and Shakespearean and they just have all this education. So I was blessed with really, really good actors.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Um, and, uh, so I didn't necessarily have to give many notes other than just like sort of general stuff. Yeah. I was the one who needed the notes to be honest.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
You know, well, I couldn't do what you do. I couldn't read off a paper. I have to memorize them.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Because I can't, you know, I'm not a, I can never be a news anchor. But it's just a muscle that you get. You just start to learn how to do it. It's about, honestly, it's about remembering the verbs and the adverbs. And that connects the thoughts. Right. That's how I do it. Right. And then if it's a big speech, I will learn that thing well in advance when the time comes to shoot it.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
it's second nature. Some people can just look at it and know it and just go, but I've never been able to do that.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Well, it's not really the, the, the words as much as it is knowing cause we shot, we literally shot, uh, 10 episodes all out of order because we had ridiculous weather for the first four months we were shooting this thing. We were supposed to, you know, the scene called for a sunny meadow with, you know, wildflowers and we had two feet of snow.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
So we had to wait and push all that stuff to the end of the year. So we ended up shooting all these different episodes simultaneously. You know, we're shooting it, we're shooting, you know, episode 10 today. And we're shooting episode three. Because we got to pick up a scene from three and we got to start whatever in the same location. So it's more about figuring out when...
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
you know, where you are in the progression of the character's arc. You know, like, what happened before this? What happened in episode four that made me say this in episode 10?
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
And so that's really the hard part. It's not really memorizing the lines. It's just keeping everything straight and making sure that everything is going to track. Because you're shooting things four episodes ahead And you have to imagine what happened three episodes before that when you haven't even shot them yet.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
That becomes the most difficult part is to kind of track how you're going to perform things well in advance or something that happened three months ago.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
It's usually a fish and a chicken and a steak. Okay. But they're not like one day. Are they one day like, hey, Chinese? Actually, on Ransom Can, we had an amazing chef.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
I wish I could remember his name now, but it was one of the best catering companies I've ever had. They were just unbelievable. So, yeah. I mean, every day is different. It's like a whole spread. I love that. No wonder you put on...
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
10 pounds every time you go shoot you know any ice cream yeah there's all kinds of there's like several dessert options love that that's love that yeah it should be an act how do you say no to it these fresh cookies they make every day yeah if i was shooting a western though i feel like i would only eat the steak yeah it feels like yeah you're a method actor exactly i go full method i like that the idea of being like a daniel day lewis but only for food yeah
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
The show does really look amazing. I mean, they did a beautiful job. The show is beautifully shot. Minka and the cast are fantastic in it. I think that people are really going to dig it. I really do.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Pretty hot. Okay, all right.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
I mean, you put a tight pair of, like, Wranglers on this ass. Yeah. And it's pretty hot.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
All right, boys. Go check out Gatlin.com.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
What's that? What's that? Like the gun? Just a little thing that I got going.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
Okay. I love it.
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NBA Playoffs With Brian Windhorst, Actor Josh Duhamel, The Bulls Lost Twice In The Play In, Lee Corso Retires Plus Fyre Fest
All right. You're welcome. You got to be able to contribute, though. I almost feel like you're. Or medical or building or farming. Podcasting. Yeah. The world will need takes.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
The first $100 million in sales that we generated were entirely bootstrapped. So the first trance of our lifetime sales came from a big chunk of it was Facebook advertising. So 2017, 2018, even 2019.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
Yeah, when it was, yeah, exactly. And even before then, right? If Snowy started even earlier, there were Moiz Ali from Native. He talks about generating $1, $1.50 subscription signups for $12 a month to order it and just like infinite demand. And he sold that business for 100 million cash in like two years from started very successful. It's still very around everywhere.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
And so in the beginning, it was I need to create a product that is different enough that would capture the attention to create a Shopify chose Shopify and you Shopify was going to be the platform we're going to build on. I started developing the product by talking to my dentist, my orthodontist, my oral surgeon. What do you sell in office? What products?
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
I went and bought as many products as I could. I analyzed all of the Amazon reviews, negative reviews, focusing on that area so that you can find some pockets. Then I saw that sensitivity is important. The whitening formula had some opportunity to be improved upon.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
the delivery method of being able to plug it into their phone uh which we invented that ability to power it by the phone because the first very first vision version of snow was 95 bucks and it was a battery powered light i did not like it very much but we needed some delivery system for the serum to be able to test it out on the customers so i started running ads and um
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
It was pretty quickly a success. I set up the first version of the website and I had an agency come in and publish it. So we got it up on Shopify very quickly. And then that was after about six to nine months of...
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
talking to my dentist reaching out to suppliers searching who makes toothpaste who makes this who makes gel and then getting samples and then tweaking those formulas and then getting some testing so that took you know six to nine months at least going back and forth maybe 50 to 100 000 bucks to buy the first order of the system that i had created for snow 1.0 i guess That was 95 bucks.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
So we started running ads on there, gave free shipping, and the focus was professional level whitening at home without the sensitivity of other systems. So, you know, really designing around the sensitive tooth customer, but also the one who wants to max out whitening. So it's like You want your cake and you want to eat it too.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
You want to preserve your enamel, but you also have a wedding next week. And it's like, boom, boom, boom, boom. So we just kept tweaking that formula, percentages, whitening agents. What can we do to help with sensitivity? And so continuing to tweak that. Then it became a device business as well with our LED technology, which we now have now.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
multiple versions of we have a wireless version colors lilac special edition we have a black one limited at Best Buy I mean just all kinds of colors and types and so the very beginning it was one product which was really a couple products in one And that's what we now have sold nearly 2 million times of that system, which has evolved now to wireless.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
Our current wired system today, which is the number one made in America teeth whitening system in the world. And so that's still our most known product was that original teeth whitening kit product. all in one at home.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
We invented the verbiage, teeth whitening wands, the teeth whitening system, just a lot of these verbiages that were a little more seen in professional, but that people could buy with free shipping, two days, three days, it's in your hands. So that was a very, very start.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
And the goal was if that works out, then if you walk down the oral care aisle, couldn't Snow have a version of everything in there? Flossers. toothpaste, mouthwash, a toothbrush, a water flosser, liners, all kinds of these products, mints, gums, breath sprays. All those products couldn't still have a version of that if this is successful. And now today, our product portfolio represents
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
an oral care and personal care portfolio of 30 plus individual SKUs, multiple award winners, with multiple of them winning multiple awards across the board. We have the best whitening strips, best toothbrush, all of these awards that are decorated on the site.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
uh and so now that has expanded but that's you know about seven years later so the very beginning it was facebook ads 95 system that we put together or that i put together with help and then push that out once that's sold upgraded every single time that we reordered. The goal was how do we upgrade the formula, take the feedback. I was calling customers myself.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
And now I had built and sold many companies beforehand. I was independently wealthy. I could have poured a lot more money into the business, but I was still ruminating on Is this something that has legs? Is this something that I think it is? Like, am I crazy? And once I started to see that, then it became hiring more products, different versions of the products, more channels to acquire customers.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
Now we're in CVS, Walgreens, Best Buy, Neiman Marcus, Saks, Macy's. So now we're in, you know, about a dozen premier top retail partners today. But in the very beginning, it's Facebook ads, Shopify, one system, one person or two to help on customer support and shipping it out. And I shipped it from my spare bedroom of the house because the inventory, I didn't want to get an office yet.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
I wasn't sure, right? And I was investing at the time. I had just sold a couple of companies. So I said, I want to see kind of if this could be my next thing, you know? And sure enough, it certainly did.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
yeah so it was uh you know uh google youtube sold the whole google suite the whole meta suite uh amazon uh advertising that whole suite um actually retail media networks so um uh also spotify uh audio right so there's every so retail media is If we're in Best Buy, we want to buy web banner ads and we want to be the sponsored on Best Buy for anything teeth related.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
And so we're spending inside of the trade marketing to push those things. But they drive awareness top of funnel as well on those platforms.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
and then we're doing everything from youtube we're doing a relaunch of tick tock we've been hiring we still are hiring like crazy for tick tock on the snow side so tick tock is top of funnel we're really excited about relaunching that instagram facebook are still very heavy on the front end we do a lot of affiliate marketing as well um i actually acquired the affiliate marketing.com domain name about a year ago to build more uh reach in that space because it's uh
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
It's a big portion across all of our brand, all the brands in my portfolio and all the brands that I've invested in affiliate marketing is a very profitable channel across the board. So affiliate marketing is another area because a lot of these bloggers, vloggers, Amazon editorial affiliates, they're putting us in front of an audience for the very first time listicles, things like that.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
So about maybe 15% of our sales online come from our online affiliates. And that's 100% non-Facebook and Instagram because we don't allow it in the program since we run it internally. So it diversifies. It forces the diversification of that traffic. So that's kind of the stack from the top level. And then that, of course... As you mentioned, your distribution funnels to marketplace first, right?
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
Marketplace, then to retail actual locations. Then we also sell to professional dermatology, dentists, kind of local clinic kind of style stuff. So that kind of whittles all the way down and it repeats from the top.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
I was the same way, man. I, like 10 years ago, told two of my best friends at Tuft & Needle, the mattress company. They have the number one most loved and most popular on Amazon mattress. And they had a very successful exit and huge success. They bootstrapped it. But they leaned into Amazon. And back then, I was anti-Amazon. You don't own the data. You got to pay them 15%, 20%.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
no no no no no you gotta lean into amazon over 50 of retail searches online start on amazon and they end there because people go straight there to search for shoes white sneakers like they're going directly to search they're buying there the conversion rate's always going to be higher than your website it is what it is i mean they've invested tens of billions of dollars into infrastructure because just a genius and they know that if they can outsmart logistics
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
and get the customers hooked on two hour delivery, that that's going to put a lot of pressure on merchants. But I know that Amazon's a public company and because they're a public company in the US, there are antitrust laws, which means that Amazon cannot get more than 51% of its revenue or 50% of its revenue from its own products.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
So all the private label they do, all the kind of things that they're doing, they cannot. I think it's like 47%, 46. You can Google it. It's like somewhere around 47%. They can't scale it much higher. They just keep it going. They got to keep that 51% marketplace revenue, which allows people like us to take advantage of what Amazon built. If it weren't for antitrust, they'd kick us all off.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
So like, that'd be my guess, right? Like, if you're on Amazon, why would they just make all the products and copy everybody?
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
And I think it's like, look at it. It goes, you know, last year was our biggest year on Amazon. Every year is our biggest year on Amazon. But last year was a significantly good year for Amazon. So we go, wow, we need to really hire in that direction. We need to really double down our partnerships in that direction. We need to really tweak our affiliate marketing efforts in that direction.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
So we went through it and said, we want to double down on Amazon and utilize our...
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
strengths uh utilize our thousands of reviews utilize our millions on our email and sms list like utilize our assets and our retail placements that are very unique to us in our industry to be able to show off on amazon and build that business so we have a goal for amazon on its own to be a nine-figure business for us in the next three years
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
from an amazon uh very focused scale plan hiring plan partnership plan that allows us to take advantage of the amazon platform and marketplaces walmart.com etc because you what happens in a recession and this is fact proven i read this they said they said uh During COVID, people went back to what they felt most comfortable and safe and secure with. So they went back to Walmart.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
They went back to Target. They stopped venturing out so much onto all these DTC websites and all these unknown things, all these unknown subscriptions. Recession hits or money gets tight, inflation. People are more likely to just, I'm just going to go to targeting and everything. I'm going to go to Walmart and get everything. I'm going to go to this website, Amazon. Let me just, it's convenient.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
It's cheaper. I'm just going to do it on Amazon. So you got to now play in that direction. Five, 10 years ago, you could get away without having to lean into it. Although I wish I could go back five and 10 years and I would have built an army of, of, of, of team members and partners on our Amazon channel. And we would have been totally dominating that channel. So I love it.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
You do get access to email your customers. Now they've got some new things. There's all kinds of stuff, but it's the only platform that's driven by sales. So you can become the number one in your category, even above the big companies. by sales volume. So you can drive, you direct your sales.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
Like if Snow directed all of our sales to Amazon today, which is maybe 15 to 20% of our US digital revenue. So let's say we put all of our US digital revenue into Amazon.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
we would be the number one in every single category above all of the incumbent brands just because of velocity but we would give up 15 at least margin based off of versus our own you give up some data but I got to tell you there are days where I go that's not the worst idea but you know there's a better way to go about it you know build up the Amazon presidents and build up the traffic and build up the list so a long story short anyone listening
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
I would like triple down and look up a company called Hero Cosmetics. Look up a company called Zesty Paws by one of my good friends. And they're a half a billion dollar pet supplement brand. 100% of their sales pretty much were from Amazon. Look up Hero Cosmetics. They have a miracle patch for acne.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
20 bucks, they sold for 630 million, I think the beginning of this year in January, 40 million in profit just through Amazon. It was an Amazon driven business. So these Amazon businesses are getting very strong multiples. They're raising money. They're TikTok friendly. So I would say lean into Amazon harder than you ever have. and really figure out how to dominate that platform in your category.
Right About Now with Ryan Alford
Priceless Advice for Being an Entrepreneur
Because it's the only place you can see sales as well. You can literally see an estimate of what everyone's selling. You can go look at Snow's stuff and be like, oh, they're selling an estimate of this much from this SKU. It's a great platform to build on.
Scam Factory
Negotiation with the Devil | 5
I'm telling them that it's true. But they don't believe me.
Scam Factory
Negotiation with the Devil | 5
They smashed me in the back. They kicked me in the legs. They kicked me in the body.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
Yeah. And they were wrong on both accounts. They really are rocks. They do grow. They do kind of calve off baby rocks. But they're not alive in any sense that we understand it. They're rocks.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
I took it to be alien pods is what people are saying on the Internet now.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
Yes. And in Oslo in 2008, the International Geological Conference, Congress.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
The parties at that place. Yeah. That's the rocks that they were doing, I'm sure. Yeah. And they said, no, we don't think it's a concretion at all. I don't know who they were scolding because I'm sure all the members were the ones who came up with the idea that it was a concretion. But they said, no, this is different than that. A concretion is a rock where you have a nucleus.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
And then over time, sediments are deposited over it and it grows and grows and grows. It's understandable why people said that trovants were concretions for a very long time. But then somebody thought to cut one open. And when they did, they said there's no nucleus here. And with a typical concretion rock, the sediments are whatever got attracted to it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
So it's made up of a bunch of different stuff. Turns out trovants are made entirely of sandstone. And in particular, they're made of calcium carbonate sandstone. So they're like, these are not concretions. What are they? We're not entirely certain, but we're going to take a stab at explaining them.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
Yeah, precisely. And so they figured out, OK, some sort of compression took place. The force of gravity can push these things together. And then apparently they were like even more pushed together by earthquakes that took place back in, I think, the middle Miocene sub epoch, which, as everyone knows, is about five point three million years ago. And they smushed the sandstone together.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
And if you look at a lot of the Trovans, especially the parts that are coming out of the ground, yeah, it just looks like a smushed normal rock, right? Like pretty large, but it doesn't look weird. What makes it look weird is the spherical shaped rocks growing out of the other rocks. And that actually has to do with the way that these rocks actually grow.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
And I say, Chuck, we take a break and we come back and talk about how they grow after this. Let's do it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here sitting in for Dave. And this is short stuff about Trovance or Trovance or Trovance.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
It had a baby. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, that's it. That's how they grow rocks, a chemical reaction that creates pressure in the rock that's so strong and they're so porous that it can actually bubble up. And then over time, as it grows and grows and grows, it can take on a spherical shape. Right. So that's pretty amazing.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
What would be more amazing is if you could see this happen in real time, but you can't because the human lifespan is fairly short compared to how long it would take to watch a trovant grow. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
Yeah, for sure. There's one researcher who said that they filmed Trevants for two weeks and said that not that they were growing, but that they were moving. This is another thing about it, too. People say these rocks move. And again, this is in Romania in the Carpathian region. People have lived there for a really long time. They've lived around these rocks for a really long time.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
So the thing is, they're not discounting it fully that these things can move, but the rocks wouldn't be moving. Say like the heating and cooling of the soil could cause some sort of movement of the rocks moving them along. And there are rocks that They don't move by their own locomotion. There's not a rock in the world that moves by itself.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
It's got to be. It doesn't matter. No one knows how to pronounce it. No one outside of Romania. And the reason I just mentioned Romania is because in the Carpathian area of Romania, there's a specific kind of rock that has captured the imagination of any human who's seen it because they are very weird looking.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
Even if it's rolling downhill, it's under the force of gravity. But there are rocks in, oh, Death Valley, I think, the sailing stones. Have you seen them?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
But they leave a track behind them. They are definitely moving. And they're too big for a human to push as like a prank or a joke like the crop circles were. And they figured out that very thin layers of ice form on the floor of Death Valley sometimes. And as it melts, it breaks into little sheets that actually kind of move the rocks along for distances. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
Yeah, I've seen both. I've seen them. You can find them around the Carpathia region, but there is definitely a huge population of them in what's now the Trovanse Museum Natural Reserve in Valcia County, Romania. And there's a village in particular, Otisani village, which is very well known for it. So much so that I think that's where the idea that they can only be found there comes from.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
But there's still, I mean, you're not going to find them in like Peru or Zimbabwe or something. They're just in this very limited area of the world in Romania.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
Very nice, Chuck. And I guess since I said very nice, I don't have anything else to you.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
Yeah, don't do that. Leave nature alone. Yeah, that's right. But I have nothing else aside from that. Okay. Short stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Trovants
In fact, they look like they're growing smaller rocks out of the bigger rocks. Not supposed to happen to anybody outside of the field of geology, but they are. And so some people are like, these rocks are living. They move around. They're going to kill you and your entire family if given the chance.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Wouldn't you have been freaked out when you cut the can open and you found the thing just fixed to the bottom of the can looking back up at you and blinked?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Right. One other thing, though, I noticed on this list, Old Speckled Hen uses widgets, too, which I didn't know. That used to be one of my fave beers for a while.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Yep. This episode of Short Stuff brought to you by Coors Banquet Beer. Yeah, I doubt that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Yeah, and they did. It's this thing that makes canned Guinness much more like Guinness from the tap, which is actually much more like Guinness from a cask, because Guinness is its own kind of thing, as a matter of fact. I say we dig into how Guinness is Guinness.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
I think so. All right. Well, I think you should take the lead then.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Yes, the widget is simple, right? So let's talk about what we're talking about. If you open a can of Guinness, and just the can, it's not in the bottle, there's a little plastic sphere with a hole in the bottom that you will hear rattling around the can. If you cut the can open, very gently set one aside and then be very careful holding the other one up because it's a sliced can.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Hey, everybody. It's Chuck and Josh here to talk to you about Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easy to build the website of your dreams and do whatever you like with it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
They're very dangerous. And look inside, you'll see this little plastic sphere. That is the Guinness widget.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
It's not that big, is it? No, it looks a little smaller. But could you, though? Does it have bounce to it?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Okay. Well, I didn't know. I could see that being like a thing that the Internet figured out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Okay. So everybody else calls it a widget then. Yeah. Okay. So they put this in there, and only God himself knows how they work.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Yeah, and when it's time to collect that money, Squarespace offers an easier way to collect payments so you can focus on growing your business. You can invoice clients and get paid for your services, turn leads into clients with proposals, estimates, and contracts, and simplify your workflow and manage your service business on one platform. What else could you possibly ask for?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
No, no. So if you have a cask, the beer that's put into the cask, it ages in the cask. Like when you deliver it to a pub, it's still doing its thing aging. And once you tap the cask, you have three days to drink it. That's how like unpasteurized and new it is. But the thing is, is when you get the beer out of the cask, you have to actually pump it out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
And that creates like a totally different pour and finish than if you're pouring it out of a keg. So because the world kind of transitioned from casks to kegs around the middle of the 20th century, Michael Asher was like, well, then what can we do to make Guinness more cask-like or keep its cask-like profile and look and taste and everything?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
And he figured out that adding nitrogen is what would do that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Yes. And even though it's harder for nitrogen to dissolve inside beer, CO2, it's very easy. Nitrogen will, some will dissolve, and it forms smaller bubbles and more stable bubbles. So when you pour this nitrogen-infused Guinness beer, the fermentation,
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
The head will be foamier, much creamier than, say, like a CO2 lager head that eventually kind of settles down and looks like urine in a glass after a while, especially if you're talking about Coors Banquet beer. This is like a foamy head that, because the nitrogen bubbles are more stable, stays around way longer, too.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
So he figured out by adding nitrogen, you can basically replicate the look and the feel and the taste of cask-poured Guinness like it used to be.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
So you like the canned version better, huh? Oh, yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Hey, and welcome to Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and we're talking short stuff today. We're talking widgets on short stuff, I should say. Widgets that were first introduced as a concept from a play. Right, Chuck?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
I might not be doing it right then because I'm like, what is this crap? I would rather just drink the Guinness out of a bottle any day of the week. I mean, do you like Guinness in a pub? I don't know that I've ever actually had real Guinness in a pub.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
I must not have poured it correctly because it doesn't make any sense that they would even go to this trouble of putting a widget in it to make worse Guinness than it is in the bottle. So I just didn't do it right. That's my guess.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Wow. So I've been doing the opposite because drinking a single bottle of Guinness is like eating a whole loaf of bread to me.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Wow. OK, so I got to try this other version because what you're talking about is basically the opposite of the Guinness I'm familiar with. Oh, wow.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Like I really want to try it. Like you've just blown my mind.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Well, there's this other thing they have now, too, that I guess kind of takes the whole thing into a new level. It's called Nitro Surge. Yeah, I saw that. You put it on top of a can and it does the pouring like it would from a cask, as far as I understand, right there at home or, you know, in the parking lot of a convenience store.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Oh, yeah. I forgot we were talking about the widget.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Right. But the specific kind of nitrogen bottles that make Guinness Guinness, which are smaller and more stable. So you get that foamy, creamy head and the cascade and all that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
You have to hold it just right. Put your thumb over the hole and then just throw it in and put the top of the can on really quick.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Right. And they're wrong, but I get the point for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
I guess it depends which version of the Internet you're talking about, you know.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
Like I just associate a stout with like like I just had dinner three hours ago. I can't drink a stout because I'll I'll throw up. I'll be too full.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
OK, we're getting tripped up by semantics again. It to me. Yeah. The big milky thing. If I drank a big glass of milk after I ate, I would probably throw up. So it's the same thing in that sense. But no, it's not making me like, you know, like Coors Bank would be or would burpee or whatever. Yeah. It doesn't fill you up in that sense. It like literally fills you up. I got you. Yes.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget
So, yeah, I think we're talking about the same thing. Well, now I'm worried that I have experienced Guinness like you're supposed to. And there's not like a whole world out there for me to try. Well, you may not like it. I'll try it for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, so lactose intolerance is apparently the baseline, the default. Lactose tolerance is from a genetic mutation.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
The genome? Yeah, the molecule. DNA is a molecule. And you said it, man. It is long. Apparently, if you stretched it out, it would be about two meters or six feet tall if you could figure out how to stretch it out. It's amazing. And it's made of 3.1 billion base pairs of nucleotides. thymine, cytosine, guanine, and adenine. And adenine goes with thymine and cytosine goes with guanine.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
And you put all that together, just with those combinations, you have a galaxy of different code that's embedded into the DNA that serves as how, like it tells the rest of your body, each cell, what it's supposed to do and how to do it. And usually that has to do with expressing proteins.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Right, exactly. So really the big problem is genes, like a gene not being replicated correctly. And a gene is just a stretch of nucleotide base pairs along your genome that together shows how to encode a protein. It's the instructions to how to do a specific thing. And again, it's just a segment along your your DNA.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
And when that stuff gets copied, if there's any kind of error, like say you match up an adenine to a cytosine, it's going to prevent that that cellular process that that whatever the gene is telling the cell to do to not be able to be performed correctly. Hence a mutation.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Yes. I think that's a pretty good place to take a break, Chuck. So let's take a break, Chuck. Let's do it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Okay, so there's basically two ways that a genetic mutation can develop. The cell replication, which we've talked a lot about, and then environmental influences. And there's actually different ways that can happen even during cell replication. There's tautomeric shifts.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and this is Short Stuff, the Mysteries of Genetic Mutations edition.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
which is where the nucleotide itself undergoes a quick chemical reaction to where suddenly adenine turns into, I don't know, silver, just for a second. And then it eventually turns back. But if that adenine nucleotide is being copied at that moment, you're going to have a silver nucleotide in your DNA. And silver just don't work when it comes to making proteins.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Right. And then the third way that a mutation can happen during replication is what's called jumping genes, cousins of jumping jacks. And that is where, so these genes are normally, I don't understand this fully, but genes, which again are just stretches of code on your DNA, can actually move. They can change positions. They can change places.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Sometimes they replicate themselves and the replicant goes and embeds itself in another segment of your DNA. Right. And if it does so in a gene, another gene, then it's going to mess up that gene's ability to perform its function. Did not know that that was a thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Yeah, a mutation. I mean, I don't know if it would help you join the X-Men, but there are mutations that alter people, sometimes in positive ways. We usually associate it with negative stuff, like a congenital disease or something. A lot of them are neutral. I think actually the vast majority are neutral. They don't really have any noticeable effect. Some are beneficial.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
And I looked, I was like, is that a misprint? Is it supposed to be dimmers? And nope.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Yeah. There's also chemical factors, too, which are basically biological or environmental factors. Essentially what it is is there's different kinds of chemicals that can make their way into the DNA in the nucleus of a cell and just mess with it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Sometimes they mimic nucleotides and they get pulled in like just some guy walking down the street getting pulled into the Jimmy Fallon late night show because they couldn't get enough people to fill seats. That can happen during DNA reproduction, replication. And when that nucleotide that didn't mean to be there gets entered into the new code of DNA, again, problems arise. That's a mutation.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Yeah. Deanimating agents, they actually remove parts of our DNA. Substances like stuff found in cigarette smoke can stick to DNA like so much tar and change the shape of the DNA. Essentially, you don't want anything going anywhere near your DNA. And if there's something that happens and it happens on an important gene, that mutation is going to produce some sort of problems down the line. But...
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Our body is actually really, really good at either preventing these errors or correcting them when it finds them, which is just mind boggling to me.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Yeah, and we should say the cell that's transcribing the DNA is aware of it because there are different molecules that proofread the newly created DNA to make sure it matches the original DNA.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Yeah, it is. So if they find a mismatch, if they find just some stretch, it could be big, small, whatever. They'll actually cut it out, excision. They'll digest it and then they'll reproduce the correct version of it and then connect it to that part that they cut out of the DNA and then zip it together. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Lactose intolerance, immunity to malaria, when someone's vestigial tail turns into a glorious full tail, those are all beneficial genetic mutations. But all of them share something in common, and that is that the replication of the person's genome had some sort of error while it was being copied. Is lactose intolerance a beneficial mutation? No, lactose tolerance.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Yeah. Thank God you're here. They were about to pull us into Jimmy Fallon and we needed something to do.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
That's great. That's a great thing. Man, Chuck, everybody loves Chuck. For reasons like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Genetic Mutations
Thank you. Well, since I think we're out of stuff to talk about, short stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Hey und willkommen zu The Short Stuff. Ich bin Josh und da ist Chuck und Jerry ist hier.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Right. And if you're a purist, you definitely have to get it from Quebec. That's just the way it goes. That's right. So there's a bunch of different families or people who lay claim to inventing Poutine, but they all hail from the same area called the Centre du Québec. which means center of Quebec, which is ironically in the south.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
And that is a really important place because that's where the fromageries, the cheesemakers, who made these squeaky cheese curds that are essential to poutine, if you're a poutine purist, where they're made. And the first guy who we'll meet is from Warwick in Quebec. And his name was Fernand Lachance. Yeah, that was in 1957.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Warte, nein, sie ist nicht hier. Jerry ist nicht hier. Dave ist nicht hier. We're left on our own, like a pair of losers. And this is short stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
And he replied in French, I'm not even going to try it, but he replied in French, that will make a damn mess.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Do you want me to try the French quote? Oh, sure. Ça va te faire une maudite poutine. Nice. So, okay, we've got our first entrant, Fernand Lachance, courtesy of Eddie Lannes. This is 1957? I guess, no, 1963 is when he added the gravy.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Yeah. Pretty fun. So poutine, actually the name of it is, it essentially means messy or mess, at least in slang in Quebec for sure. But people say that it's probably or possibly one of the etymological theories is that it hails from the English word pudding. And not pudding like you and I think that has the jiggly skin off top that you have to peel off when you take it out of the refrigerator.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
This is pudding as in like figgy pudding, which is essentially like a mixture of various foods, sometimes fig, and that it can be kind of messy. It's not like, it's just like a hodgepodge, just kind of mixed together, that kind of messy. And so poutine, possibly from pudding, is where this whole thing came from.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Yeah, so what we do know is that it showed up from the more rural area of Centre du Québec to Quebec City in 1969 at a place called Ashton's Snack Bar. It made it to Montreal in 1983 and then it started to spread far and wide from there. They say we take a break and we come back and we trace poutine's spread like so much gravy flowing over a pile of fries. Great.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Yeah. How do you like it? It was great. I mean, it's hard to mess up poutine, in my opinion.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
There's also one more thing, I'm sorry. There's also a restaurant in Toronto, I can't remember, also I totally name check, but they made like Korean poutine.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
I can't remember what made it Korean, but it was the bomb. Oh, okay. I think it had some sort of smoked meat on it as well.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Yeah, but it's a great name. Yeah, pretty good. So, it first started to spread to national restaurant chains back in 1985. There was a Quebec fast food franchise called Fritz, F-R-I-T-S. And they did not last very long, but they seemed to be on record as the first national chain, or at least large regional chain, to feature poutine. But the one that really kind of kicked it off was Burger King.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Einer ihrer Franchisees, Jean-Louis Roy, war 1987 und sagte, ich möchte wirklich Poutine Burger King anbieten. Bitte lasst mir Poutine anbieten. Und der Burger King dachte darauf und sagte, ich wünsche mir das nicht. Und so begann diese erste Burger King Franchise, Poutine zu verkaufen.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Und ich glaube, es verkaufte sich gut genug, dass Burger King gesagt hat, wir werden es in allen unseren Québec-Restaurants verkaufen.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
But in Canada, you got to eat some of that poutine. You definitely do. Whenever we visit Toronto, I'm always on that stuff. Aber einer der Gründe, warum wir so viel nicht essen können, ist, weil wir in den südwesten Vereinigten Staaten leben, wobei Poutine ursprünglich in Québec inventiert wurde, was in der Mitte des Winters sehr kalt werden kann.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Er ist in Ottawa geboren. Und es sollte nicht aufgeräumt werden. Es ist wie ein sehr einfaches, einfaches Straße-Food. Und er war wirklich wütend. Ich denke, in der Interview sagten sie, dass er seine Füße gehalten hat und dann seine Schuhe weggezogen hat und seine Schuhe auf dem Tisch gehalten hat, während er schreit.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
What's he what's he what what in Atlanta?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Yeah, 5 and 10 was great. That went in where, what was the super threadbare restaurant that had been there for a million years before 5 and 10? It was like an Athens institution.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Yeah, but even still, just maybe also if you can't make it to Quebec, like look up how to make as close an approximation as you can and enjoy it that way.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Sure, sure. Since Chuck said he's going to give it a shot, everybody, that means short stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Poutine: Canada's Pride
Also macht es eigentlich viel Sinn, während dieser Zeit eine höhere Kalorien-Diät zu essen, wie ein Bär.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
Have you had any of the other Fantas, the grape, et cetera?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
I got you. I was more of a Faygo man as a kid. I never drank those.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
No, no, it's not. It's its own thing for sure. I don't know that you should ever break the streak now that you've reached this long without trying it, but it's not lemon lime. It's its own thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
It sure did. One of the things that Coca-Cola did over time was they expanded around the world. They became an ambassador of American democracy everywhere. One of the places they expanded to is Germany, pre-war Germany, or maybe interwar Germany. I'm not sure when they showed up.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
But regardless, by the time World War II was starting to ramp up, say the 30s, the late 30s, Coca-Cola was heavily entrenched in Germany, and its subsidiary was Coca-Cola GmbH. which stands for Gelschaft mit Beschreiterhaftung, which translates to company with limited liability. And there was a guy named Max Keit who ran the show there.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
And boy, oh boy, was he dedicated to Coca-Cola and furthering the cause of Coca-Cola in Germany.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
Yeah. Can you imagine? I looked high and low for a photograph of that, and I could not find it. I'm sure Coca-Cola has dedicated a significant amount of its operational funding to destroying any evidence of that banner ever. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
I'll bet they don't have it up, too. There was also for the 10th anniversary of Coca-Cola GmbH, they decided to commemorate their deepest admiration for the Fuhrer for Hitler's 50th birthday with a mass Nazi salute, I guess, of employees who worked there at the time.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
So Coca-Cola was very much entrenched in Nazi Germany even before the war, especially before the war, I should say.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
Yeah. And also at the same time, he's walking this fine line between not having access to the product that his company makes and trying to keep the German government from officially seizing and taking over his company. And to do that, he needs a hit. He needs the most delicious, most nutritious thing you could possibly put together that's going to sweep Germany away.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
Right off the bat, and I feel like we should talk about this product that Max Kite introduced after a break.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
Hey, and welcome to The Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck. And Chuck, I have a question for you. Yes? Don't you want to Fanta?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
Okay, Chuck, so Max Kite's like, what am I going to do? I need to come up with something fast to keep my company afloat. I think I'll just create an entirely new drink that no one's ever even thought of making before. And because there's so many wartime rations going on, I'm going to have to get really creative here, but I'm going to do it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
Yeah, it took me a couple of reads to be like, well, wait a minute, how does that taste like Fanta? And then I realized with just sudden horror, it didn't taste anything like Fanta. And apparently it didn't taste very well at all. Historians, no one knows what it tasted like, or at least no one's been able to find somebody who actually drank this stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
But they're like, just look at the ingredients. There's no way it tasted good. And they think that it was probably mostly sold to be used as like a flavor agent for soups and stews and stuff like that, that people weren't just knocking back bottles of this stuff because they would have vomited until they died, I guess. Instead, they're just using it in other ways.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
Don't you want to Fanta? That's how I remember it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
But that's not to say it wasn't a huge hit. It was a big seller. And not only that, it instilled like a kind of national pride among Germans. Like, look at how resourceful we are in the face of, you know, wartime scarcity. But have you tried this stuff?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
Yeah. But also, so this name, just the name, right? They could have come up with anything else. But just the name has Nazi ties, like you said. It was created in and for Nazi Germany. And it was also made from apple pulp and beet sugar and whey. Why would you use that? I would think you would want to do the exact opposite and bury that name like it was a banner with the Coke logo and a swastika.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
But instead, they just went with it and they introduced it in Italy first as this the version we know now, this orange soda version in Italy was like, yeah, it's pretty good. Let's go with that. And they started to export it, finally made it into the United States in 1958, which was, I think, three years after they reintroduced it in Italy.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
I see. I see what you mean. And they were like, I'm sure people just forget about it anyway within a year or two. Anybody who even knows about it will never come out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
Right. It goes to support the upkeep of Hitler's tomb or something like that. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
But the author Pendergrast was like, it's this is pretty it is still pretty significant that people like this drink enough that even knowing its its roots or where it came from, you're just like, it's just it's an orange soda. I like it for what it is. And it's not just orange, as we said. They have a whole line of flavors, including grape.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
And I think it's much more popular in South America right now, but it's still pretty big in America, in the United States. Man, we keep getting taken to task for that, for calling the U.S. America.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
Sorry, everybody. That's what they tell us. That's what they teach us here.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
Oh, one other thing about that, too, is Kite, as the Nazis rolled into country after country, Kite was right behind the tanks going, your division of Coca-Cola is now part of Coca-Cola Deutschland. Your division of Coca-Cola is now part of Coca-Cola Deutschland. And so when he was made the head of Coca-Cola Europe, he had consolidated through... conquering other businesses.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
He had consolidated all into one company because of the Nazis conquering these countries. Isn't that nuts?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
Yeah. He kept pounding his fist in his hand whenever he talked at like board meetings and investors meetings.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Fanta - Nazi Favorite?
Okay. Well, that's it for Fanta. Do you want a Fanta? I don't know. That's only a question you can answer yourself. And while you think about that, we're done with this. So short stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
She might be too old for this, but maybe not. Has she ever read any of the scary stories to tell in the dark books?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
Okay. Go to eBay and find whatever editions came out in the 80s. Okay. Because they have some of the greatest illustrations ever that made everything so much more unsettling. You have to get those watercolor illustrations or else don't even bother.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
They are. It's so great. I remember being a kid and just being like, this is so great. I feel so alive. Thanks for the rec. Yeah. There's also more scary stories of tunnel in the dark, pretty much equally good.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
It was a huge hit, actually. So apparently Andrew Carnegie funded, I believe, twenty five hundred plus. For some reason, everybody says twenty five hundred and eight. So I'm guessing that's the number. Public libraries around the turn of last century or early last century.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
And there's still plenty around that he essentially partnered with whatever local government and said, I'll give you a bunch of money or I'll throw in half or something like that. And that was one of the big pieces of philanthropy he was known for.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
So I guess Todd Boll and Rick Brooks said, let's try to see if we can make 2508 of these things by the end of 2013, which was a couple of years after they started. And they just blew that goal out of the water.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
Hey, and welcome to The Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and we're sitting in for Dave today, and this is Short Stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
Yeah, I remember the first time I saw one, I didn't get the concept. So I kind of burned it down a book that I wanted. And so I looked around to make sure no one was looking and put it in my jacket and ran off really quick.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
Yeah, eventually. But I said that when they started, they wanted to make 2508 of these things within a couple of years. They ended up surpassing that with a year and a half left before their goal date. And they just kept going from there. Apparently, Chuck, here's some mind boggling numbers for you. So they started in 2009.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
In 2022, there were more than 150,000 little free libraries across the world in 120 different countries.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
Very sweet. That is a great last interview quote.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
All right, well, let's take a break, and we'll come back and talk about a different kind of alt library after this.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
Okay, Chuck, so we already talked about little free libraries, which anybody can make. And if you want some tips, like we said, go check out the little free library book. If you saw that in a little free library, wouldn't the universe just collapse in on itself?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
Yeah, it's that kind of give a book, take a book thing. I don't know if we spelled it out or if we needed to, but that's the premise of it, right? Yeah. Another thing was called the Human Library, and this was the result of a couple of, who I take to be artists, brothers Ronnie Abergel and Danny Abergel. Yeah, have to be.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
Yeah, for a festival in Denmark, about the year 2000, they created the Human Library. In Danish, they call it Meneske Biblioteket, but all one word.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
Sure, but you add the E-T to the end and you've got Danish.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
So what they created with this human library was the concept that the books were human beings. And they were human beings that people might want to get information from. So they were human beings who were typically looked down upon, mistreated, had different experiences from the mainstream. So you had like books that were trans people, unhoused people, people from different races.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
And you can check out one of these books, this human book, and hang out with them and ask them whatever question you want. And then you take them back and check out another one.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
Yeah, I thought this was kind of cute, too. So if you're a volunteer as a book, you go through a vetting process and then they teach you how to do this. And they call that getting published.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
And then once you're published, you can be checked out. And the rules for readers are that you respect the book. Be curious. Bring the book back on time and in the same condition. I'm keeping this book. If you read between the lines, I think bring it back in the same condition means that they don't want any pages stuck together with a booger.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
Well, luckily, the book can end the loan anytime they want. Like if things go pear shaped. Yeah. They can be like, I'm taking myself back to the library.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
Right. They also have mobile libraries called book depots, the headquarters for this that it just carried on for the last couple of decades. It's headquartered in Copenhagen, but they have mobile libraries. And I guess they just go round up the books and they're like, sorry, you're you're published. Come in with us on the road for a little while.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
Yes. And I think invariably at all of those events, there's at least one person who raises their hand and says, so wait, this is just Q&A?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
What's the library thing? I don't. Yeah, I'm totally confused. Yeah. And they probably don't get very much out of the experience.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Alternative Libraries
Yeah. Just make sure that the person you're dragging off to be checked out is a published book and not just some rando.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
Yeah, I think in either a bread episode or a beer episode, we explored whether or not bread was created to make beer portable or a beer starter portable. But regardless, it's been around for a very, very long time. And yet, would you say 30,000 years? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
His age was close to 80. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
I don't, as a matter of fact, but we could kind of guess. He lived, he was, oh, 1960. There it is right there. I was going to do some math, and luckily I was bailed out at the last minute. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
Yeah, well, there's one other thing. There's an extra happy end to this story. That guy, Frank Bench, the nearly bankrupt baker who took a chance on his friend Otto and his new machine, his sales increased by 2,000% when he started selling sliced bread, and he was saved. Yeah, pretty cool.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
I really hope that Otto's like great-grandson Tim writes in and he's like, it's real weather.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
No, Clark was Clark. It's a derivative of clerk, so I come from a long line of pencil pushers.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
I agree. I'm glad you said that. Thank you. Yeah. I guess short stuff's out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
Okay. Let's say bread was invented 30,000 years ago. It took 29,900 years before this point for somebody to think of pre-sliced bread, or if they thought of it, to actually follow through with that idea. And we have a hero, a hero named Otto Frederick Roeder to thank for that. We'll meet him in a minute.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
Hey, everybody. It's Chuck and Josh here to talk to you about Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easy to build the website of your dreams and do whatever you like with it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
Yeah, because that guy I mentioned before, Otto Frederick Rowetter, the father of sliced bread, he had been tinkering with this for well over a decade, right? Rowetter! He was a... It's got to be German. It has to be. Well, his name's Otto Frederick first. I mean, those are your first two clues. And then they really kind of drive it home on the third name. Then Auf Deutsch. He, no, he was.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
You're not going to do it? What, the Rohwetter? I just want you to say it German. Otto Friedrich Rohwetter.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
I didn't even know I could roll my R's.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
Yeah, and when it's time to collect that money, Squarespace offers an easier way to collect payments so you can focus on growing your business. You can invoice clients and get paid for your services, turn leads into clients with proposals, estimates, and contracts, and simplify your workflow and manage your service business on one platform. What else could you possibly ask for?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
Well, I'm, you know, from Georgia and Ohio and Florida. All right. All right. So anyway, O-T, O-F-R. I don't know. It's his initials. I'm trying to think of something else to call him that you won't make fun of me for. How about Otto? So Otto, he was an inventor and I don't I didn't see anywhere where he got the idea to do this, but just suddenly sat up one day. He's like sliced bread.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
We should make sliced bread so you can just go buy store buy at the store pre sliced bread. And he got to work making a machine. All the way back in 1917. But you mentioned it wasn't until 1928 that people started being able to buy pre-sliced bread at the store. And that's because he got pretty far, got a prototype developed, had all these blueprints for making this machine.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
And there was a fire at his office that just wiped everything out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
Yeah. And I mean, think about how just normal that seems now. Yeah. Just to imagine that somebody had to have that idea at one point, and then we know the person who did it. His name is Otto. I just find that fascinating. That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
If you want to put it like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
So Otto had that fire in 1917, and he kept working at it. And 11 years later, he had a working machine that was pumped by foot, I saw, like a sewing machine of the era. And it was two sets of very sharp blades, some going up, some going down at the same time. And a loaf of bread would come from the top down a ramp past the blades and come out the bottom of the machine, sliced, but kind of a mess.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here sitting in for Dave. So this is an official bonafide short stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
They were just kind of laying all over the place. And a loaf-ish machine. shape, but really a pretty messy low fish shape.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
Yeah, for sure. So two things. Frank Bench was a baker on the verge of bankruptcy and just decided to take a chance and pay his friend for this machine. And number two, before Gustav Poppendieck came along, Otto's solution to these floppy, flimsy, like falling apart loaves of bread was to stick a hat pin in them.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
And then part of the instruction was to take the hat pin out just far enough so that you could take however many slices you wanted from it and then push the hat pin back in. And everybody was like, that's a terrible idea. What else you got? And luckily, Pap and Dick was like, no, no, no.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
We'll have it wrapped so that by the time it comes out of the slicer, this loaf isn't falling apart and it's wrapped for freshness. It was a great, great improvement because without it, sliced bread would have gone nowhere, basically. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
Right. You're not going to choke on a hat pin, but 18 people a year choke on a king cake baby.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
I also want to shout out Mental Floss and Zachary Crockett on Priceonomics.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
Right. And to help them out, I think Wonder Bread first came out. It was, I think, the first sliced bread nationally available or widely available. And it became the most popular. And originally it was called Wonder Cut because it came pre-sliced and they shortened it to Wonder Bread. But I was like, seriously, how much of a time saver is this? And then I read a quote from a woman who was upset.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
We'll talk about why she was upset in a minute. But she makes a really good case that like if you're having to slap together sandwiches really quickly for your family's lunches before they leave. go out the door and you're also cutting bread to make toast for them at the same time, like you might have to slice 30 slices of bread really quick. And that's actually kind of time consuming.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
So if you can buy pre-sliced bread, that's going to save you some time and effort. And it actually is worth it. So I finally wrap my head around how much of a time saver sliced bread actually is.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
No, and they tried to, didn't they?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
Yes. So as part of the wartime conservation in the United States for World War II, Claude R. Wickert, who was the U.S. Food Administrator.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
Sorry. You're probably right, but I'm going to call him Claude Wickard. He ordered a ban on sliced bread in particular. Not bread. Not anything else. Just sliced bread. And his reasoning was you have to use thicker wax paper to keep pre-sliced bread fresh because there's a lot of holes in it now. There's a lot of extra surface area to go stale. So that means you're using more paraffin.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
And God knows what else they were trying to use paraffin for. Probably waterproofing stuff like clothing and things like that at the time.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
So they needed the paraffin. And at the same time, they're also like the price of grain is about to go up. And we don't want bakers to be able to use sliced bread prices, which is more expensive, to hide passing on higher grain prices. So we're just going to say you can't have sliced bread. And Claude Wickard walked away whistling and like dusting his hands off. And he thought that was it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Best Episode Since Sliced Bread
And he ran into America's homemakers who surged up like a tidal wave of angry people. People wearing aprons came after him, and he ended up backing down pretty quick.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Yes. And that is the sign of a true artiste.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Because I think we talked about in our Peter Principle episode, appropriately enough, because that's what we're talking about here. You can very easily get raised, I guess. Promoted. Thank you. Out of your field of expertise and suddenly you're a manager. And not everybody's a manager, we can tell you for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
I'm terrible at it, just screaming, pounding my fists on desks. It doesn't work.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Yeah, because his dad died while he was in elementary school. Although I suspect if you're born to a Minnesota farm family in 1911, you're going to work regardless. But I think the pressure was on William Mitchell even more than the average Minnesota farm child born in 1911 because of his father's death.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
So Bill Mitchell had to harvest peas and beans for other farmers to help supplement the income of their family. By the time he was a teenager, the family was living in Colorado and he was trapping muskrat and I guess selling them at the local muskrat market and harvesting melons for other farmers, too. So he did a lot of work that probably the average person didn't.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
But he also worked his way through college, too, I guess, as a carpenter.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Yeah. You can kind of imagine that's probably where he started to develop his love of food science, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Yeah. It really hyped him up. Well, I say that because pretty early on, after he graduated with a master's degree in chemistry, he went into research chemistry with, I guess, a lean toward food because it was at the Agricultural Experiment Station in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'm guessing he worked a lot with corn. And so that was his first career was essentially in food science.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
He started working with food as a scientist. How about that?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Don't say it. Don't say any names yet.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Okay, because we're going to take a break real quick, and we're going to come back and talk about some of the great things that Bill Mitchell did with his life later after this.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
So Chuck, we talked about Bill Mitchell being an amazing person. And one of the reasons why is because he developed some of the best foods that came out of the 20th century. Not the best for you foods, but the best.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Well, they just can't soak their heads.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Yeah. And you said flavor crystals. That was a big one because William Mitchell was known in the food science industries, the master of disaster. And in parentheses, they would put disaster being flavor crystals. They just couldn't find anything that rhymed with it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
So, yeah, I mean, this was the time when America was just totally fascinated with space. You know, you could have put an old leather boot in space and sold it as Tang and people would have drank it. Yeah. So you talked about John Glenn saying it was gross to drink metallic water. Later on, Buzz Aldrin said Tang is gross. As a matter of fact, he said Tang sucks.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
And he said it while he was doing the most 2013 thing you could possibly be doing. He was presenting a Spike TV Guy's Choice Award to Felix Baumgartner.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Yeah, and I don't know how it came up. I didn't see the clip, but that was what made the rounds in the media. Tang sucks, in quotes.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Hey, and welcome to The Short Stuff. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. Jerry's here for Dave. And this is Short Stuff. We're talking about one of the greatest Americans to ever grace this earth.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Did you drink Tang when you were a kid?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
I guess you probably didn't drink Kool-Aid either. A little bit here and there. Those were treats I usually got at other kids houses. Yeah. Kool-Aid was the best.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
I drank so much Kool-Aid. Cherry. Lime was really good. Grape was probably the best. Oh, my God.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Yes. But if you ever made it, Chuck, you would put the Kool-Aid powder in a pitcher and it would be like a couple of tablespoons, maybe tops. And then you would pour literal cups of sugar on top of it. Add water, stir and just thank me later.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Kool-Aid. It was it was nuts. Like looking back, it was insane that that's what kids drank.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
No time flat. So what's interesting is jello is very famous for making some really weird, being a part of some really weird mid-century recipes. So Bill Mitchell had his hand in jello. He also had his hand in another ingredient in some really weird recipes from mid-century, which was Cool Whip, which was and still is almost totally artificial whipped cream.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
It's made with water, hydrogenated vegetable oil, high fructose corn syrup, corn syrup, and then skim milk. And the skim milk is a modern addition. There used to be nothing that was a milk product in Cool Whip, which meant you could freeze it, which was a huge boon to general foods, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
So you're a Cool Whip dude, huh?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Same with Ready Whip, though. You just turn it up and spray it right in your mouth. And then when it's out, it gives you a pretty good buzz.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Yeah. I think I told you before. Cool. Yeah, we talked about this. Cool Whip and peanut butter. It's a dangerous combination.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
You know, you probably just shouldn't. I don't think you should. It's like you might as well have just said, I think I'll start smoking cigarettes.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
So the granddaddy of them all, Bill Mitchell, had a hand in in that he kind of laid the groundwork for the product to come. But back in 1956, William Mitchell was trying to figure out ways to carbonate Kool-Aid to basically create instant soda.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
And he was like, let me just figure out how to add carbon dioxide to flavor crystals, because, again, he was the flavor crystal king.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
And I guess he he did enough so that like he created a legacy process of adding CO2 to flavor crystals. It just wasn't creating the soda that he was looking for. So he shelved it and then somebody else came along and picked it up. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Oh, they're little, very tiny candy on the kind of like this size and shape of nerds. And if you don't know what nerds are, we're just totally lost here. Right. Not quite as coated if they are at all. But when they touch your tongue, that CO2 that's inside just like starts to get released and it makes the candy crackle.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
So not only does it make a cool sound, fizzing sound, just like the top of like when you pour a Sprite. Like you can feel it on your tongue, too. It's very delightful.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Usually ADHD laser focuses on something like a big sugar rush. So she's fortunate. Yeah. So there was a myth. I think some people probably still believe this if they've heard it, Chuck, that if you drink soda and pop rocks, eat pop rocks at the same time, you're at risk of blowing your stomach up from all of the carbon dioxide. And that is just not true.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
But it was persistent enough that General Foods had to take out a full page ad saying, Back in the 70s. And I looked it up. It's an open letter to parents talking about Pop Rocks and how it's safe. And it was written by Bill Mitchell. Oh, that's great. Yeah. So they trotted him out and they were like, tell everybody, Bill, because we don't understand how they work. You explain it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Yeah, we should say one of those seven children is Cheryl Mitchell, his daughter. She became a food scientist as well, followed in her father's footsteps. And if you like rice dream, you can thank Cheryl Mitchell or Elmhurst nut grain and seed milk. You can thank her as well. And she's known as a, quote, world authority on sweeteners, rice processing and the extraction and metabolism of inulin.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: William A. Mitchell: Food Inventor
Same here. All right. Well, thank you. And thank you for signing off as a salute to William Mitchell, too, Chuck. I appreciate it. And I think that also means short stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Okay, good. Well, Chuck, one of the things that I think immediately pops up that we can't possibly get past without mentioning first is that regardless of the color of the eggs, I really hope this is true. One is not necessarily more nutritious than the other.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
You're thinking of rice or flour. Oh. Non-brown chicken eggs are not bleached. That is not true. That would be a really bad thing to do to an egg. The white eggs that you see that make up the vast majority of the eggs that you buy in the United States They come from leghorn chickens, as in foghorn leghorn. But he was a rooster. But the hens of his breed lay white eggs. They're not leached.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Yeah, we need to shout out a University of Georgia poultry scientist named, get this, Justin Fowler.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
It is amazing. And so he provided a lot of the insight on how all of this works, and he basically said it's genetics. But you don't have to run a chicken's genome to figure out what color eggs it's going to produce. It's much easier than that. You can at least distinguish...
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
colored egg layers, not necessarily the color, but whether they're going to lay an egg that has some sort of tint to it versus ones that are going to lay just white eggs based on their earlobes. A couple of things about this. I didn't know that you could judge the color of a chicken's eggs by looking at its earlobes. I also didn't know that chickens had earlobes.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Yeah. I mean, I've seen them a million times. They're like they almost look like mutton chops, like meatloaf from Rocky Horror Picture Show. But they're on chickens faces instead. Those are their earlobes.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Hey, and welcome to The Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and we're about to take you on a ride through a chicken's oviduct at some point in this episode. And why we're doing that is to explain why chicken eggs have different colors in some cases. And we're going to get really into the weeds on it, and it's going to be great.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Yeah, but again, not necessarily like the same color as that. But it just means that they're producing more pigment than other chickens, and they like to really show off by laying some of that pigment on the eggs. And I say we take a break, and we come back, and we take that trip down the oviduct when we return.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Okay, Chuck, get your miner's cap on. Turn on the light. Yep. Maybe don some gloves. Yeah. And we're going to go in the oviduct of a chicken, a hen. And when you go in there, we're going to see the ova. That is the chicken yolk. And it forms in the chicken's ovaries. And an ovum leaves the ovary and it gets deposited in the oviduct. And it's almost like a cartoony conveyor belt.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Like I can almost see like mechanical gloved hands shaping things along the way.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Or his fraternity nickname. But they all start white, right? Right. Yeah, because they're made of calcium carbonate, and that is white in nature. And so all chickens' eggs are white. That's all you really need to know, except for everything else that's about to follow. And that is that once the egg is formed, and it's a white egg, some kinds of chickens deposit a pigment on it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Again, like leghorn, white earlobe, no pigment deposit. But other kinds, like you said, Plymouth Rocks, Orphingtons, Rhode Island Reds, they all put a little bit of pigment, I guess, just to kind of make the world a slightly brighter place. I can't think of any other reason for this, evolutionarily speaking.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
But we have narrowed it down to two distinct pigments that are responsible for the galaxy of colors. Maybe not galaxy, but the wide array of colors that chicken eggs come in.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Yeah. Does it come out of like a pastry frosting bag?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Okay. That's it. Yeah, that is. Those two make the whole thing. The greens and blues are the Billy Verdon, and the protoporphyrin make the reddish-browns. That's right. And it's not just chickens that this happens with. You know, robins lay Tiffany box blue eggs.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Well, we also have to presume that you can even find the eggs to buy.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
I think it's usually described as robin's egg blue. But that's from the same process. It makes that same sound. Can we hear it again? Yeah. There's also a bird called the common muir, and they have a blue egg that sometimes is speckled.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
I think all of this is so wonderful, but really there's nothing that can compare to an Easter egg that's been dipped in a vinegar food dye dip or blend and held by that little wire thing that you kind of bring it out with and then you mark, or no, you start with the crayon and then you dye it. Like, let's see a chicken do that. Make a chevron pattern on your egg naturally, chicken.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Yeah, and be forewarned because in the United States, at least, the term pasture-raised is not regulated. You could slap that on any egg you wanted. Do some research. Luckily, there are some certification groups that go through and actually certify these are pasture-raised. So you want to look for certifications like certified humane is a legitimate one.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
That means that that chicken actually was walking around pecking at the ground, not in like some big metal shed with a trillion other chickens.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Yeah, but there's some things that you need to know about this if you're eating locally sourced eggs. One is that they probably haven't been washed, which is fine. That they don't normally come washed unless you're buying commercially produced eggs in Australia, the U.S., Japan, Australia. You have to wash them.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
The problem with washing an egg, though, is that it removes the little waxy coating that the egg is naturally encased in that keeps bacteria out of the shell. As hard as the shell seems, it's actually kind of porous, and bacteria can make it right into the egg and kill you and everyone you love. But that waxy coating keeps that from happening.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
The problem with all this is, and this is the reason why the United States and Japan and Australia require their commercially produced eggs to be washed, is that coating really hangs on to things like salmonella and chicken yard poop and all this stuff. So you kind of have to balance the two. Do you want salmonella or do you want E. coli? Which one do you want?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
So if you get locally sourced eggs, it makes sense to keep them unwashed until you want to eat them. Then you wash it, use a little bit of Dawn, some water, wash that off, and then you eat it washed.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Why? What's wrong with Dawn? I love Dawn. Great. They have a free and clear. It's got a little duck on it. It's totally natural.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
But once you do wash them, you need to refrigerate them because, again, bacteria can invade them pretty easily.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: All About Egg Colors
Really? Oh, yeah. Did you get a little poop in your eggs? No. They're great. Cool. Well, there you go. Everything you need to know about locally sourced eggs from your friend Chuck B. That's right. Chuck said that's right. And that means, obviously, that short stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Yeah. And they don't just stay open at all costs because they couldn't care less about their staff. And they're just greedy and want to make money. This is actually like by design. There's a corporate... Mandate? Ideology? Mandate works, sure. That Waffle House should serve as essentially a community center during disasters. And during normal times, they're just Waffle Houses.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
But during a natural disaster in particular, you should just stand back and watch them go because they have actual plans that the company has developed to figure out how to stay open to serve the community. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Yeah. Whether you're like somebody whose house just got ravaged or a first responder helping people whose house just got ravaged. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
It's a really important thing that you just totally overlook. Like if your kitchen is gone and all of the other restaurants in town are shut down, having a Waffle House open is a really, really big deal. And they have like actual what are called Waffle House jump teams there. That can show up. Parachuters. They parachute in. Yeah, they do parachute in.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Better than Plan B. But they parachute in, like you said, and they will open a Waffle House faster than you can say Waffle House.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Wait, hold on. Faster than you can say scattered, covered, smothered, and chunked.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Yeah, I don't eat ham anymore, but I haven't been to a waffle house since I stopped eating ham. So yes, I always got it with ham, cheese, and sauteed onions.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
I see. I got you. I thought you were saying you don't want to replace that memory with another. Oh, no, no, no, no.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Yep. So I say we take a break and come back and talk more about this Waffle House Index and what it is and where it came from. All right.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Hey, and welcome to The Short Step. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here, too, sitting in for Dave, and we're just cooking it up here at Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Yeah, for sure. Not only did they come up with the book, that's when they figured out, okay, what kind of limited menu can we come up with? How can we store it? They identified like local temporary food storage they could use that was, you know, I'm sure central to a number of Waffle Houses, not one for each one. And we're just basically ready. It's called disaster preparedness.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
I had no idea about this. I really just thought Waffle House just stayed open just out of sheer will until I researched this. But they have a disaster preparedness plan. And apparently other companies do in the United States too, like Lowe's and Home Depot will, because people need lumber and shovels and hammers and stuff because they're blew away and they need to rebuild.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
And probably also more like generators and... And gas cans and so on and so forth. I don't know why I'm staying on this list, but Waffle House isn't the only one, but they're just part of a handful of companies who've essentially made themselves like de facto essential operations for post-disaster preparedness stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
I feel like we've taken a pretty good chunk out of what would have been a Waffle House episode. Agreed. Because we're talking about the Waffle House Index. And yes, there's plenty of interesting stuff about the Waffle House.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Yeah. And I mean, it's as simple as like calling the local Waffle House in Tampa after a hurricane just passed through and saying, are you guys still open? And if they don't answer the phone, there's trouble in that community. And he was saying, like, that's where FEMA should start sending its people first, because that's as bad as it gets if the Waffle House isn't open.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
And they actually color coded it. There's green is the best part of the index. It means that your Waffle House is totally fine. Maybe there's like a cracked window, but everything else is good and everyone in the community can come there. Yellow has a limited menu and they're probably using a generator. And then red is like it's closed. The Waffle House is toast.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
But I would argue that the Waffle House Index is possibly the most interesting thing about the chain of what everyone in the South or Southeast knows is 24-7 restaurants that are legendary for staying open against all odds. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Come here because this is the community that's hardest hit. That's how like dedicated Waffle House is to staying open. That if they're closed, FEMA knows that that's where you should go first.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Yeah, there's this really great story I read on the Waffle House blog. Well, the North Carolina back in 2011, Hurricane Irene passed through there and the Waffle House, the local Waffle House lost its power because. But the gas was still going to the grill. And so the Waffle House stayed open and was cooking for people as long as it was light enough for them to see what they were doing.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
And then when it just became too dark to keep going, they closed and then opened at first light at dawn.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Or maybe they just didn't have candles. And then the Waffle House employee or the manual afterward was like, buy candles, make sure you have plenty of candles. We learned from Hurricane Irene.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
If it is a food truck, though, there's 100% chance that they're serving empanadas. Right. Even from the Waffle House food truck. But they have a great nickname for it, though, at least. Yeah, well, it's from Stripes. What did they call it? The EM-50, which is apparently the assault vehicle that Bill Murray drives in Stripes was the EM-50. I never got into that movie.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Well, yeah, of course. I feel like it might have just been a couple of years ahead of me when I was younger. I was more a meatballs guy. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Yeah, I don't know how I was allowed to watch Meatballs because I was never allowed to watch Porky's or just about anything. My mom wouldn't even let me watch Sanford and Son because she thought Red Fox was a dirty old man.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
Yeah, well, it wasn't funny when you're a kid and you want to watch Sanford. It's not funny at all.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Waffle House Index
She loved playing the banjo. I love that. And I love the Waffle House Index. And Waffle House didn't even sponsor this, everybody. That's just how impressed we are with the Waffle House Index. I always thought it was just some fooling around pop culture thing. Nope, it's a real thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
No, but I mean just that phrase, most exquisitely slender diet, sounds awesome. So I thought it was worth putting in there.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
What's weird, Chuck, is I saw that it was this whole adage that we that is like basically encouragement is taken as an encouragement or advice today was originally taken as like a warning that if you feed a cold, that cold will turn into a fever and then you'll have to starve the fever. Like and that the reason that it was ambiguous is because of that comma in the middle.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
OK. But well, what was the whole point? I mean, like if what was the idea that it was based on, I guess, then?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Sure. That was, I think, what they think the whole thing was based on. And regardless of how you slice it, though, how you take it as a warning or anything like that, it's pretty much... generally viewed as not good advice by the medical community today. I say we take a break and come back and talk about how this is not really good advice. How about that?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
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Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
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Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
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Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. There's Chuck and I'm Josh and Jerry's here too, sitting in for Dave. So this is short stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
That's right. So just go to squarespace.com slash stuff. And when you're ready to launch, use our offer code stuff to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Squarespace.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Now, and that's bad enough, but the actual harm is in the second part, starving a fever. Because pretty much everybody in the medical community agrees that if you feel hungry while you're sick, you should go ahead and eat because your appetite can come and go and it can be so thin. You want to take advantage of it when it does show up.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
And even more to the point, if you starve yourself on purpose while you have a fever, you're robbing yourself of some really much needed nutrients and calories that your body really needs specifically when you have a fever.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Right. And the reason that your metabolism would jack up when you have a fever is because your body's literally raising your core temperature to try to cook out the virus that's got you in its grips.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Yeah. Yeah. It is kind of weird. It's like almost giving it like a grudging salute, like way to go, Bobby.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Oh, for sure. The worst is when the fever comes on in the morning and you've got fever all through the night. Fever.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Just want to make sure that wasn't an accident. Yeah. You said, can you imagine the coincidence? Like, what would the odds be of that? I don't know. It'd make you a natural songwriter, I guess. So you said that you want to drink, especially if you can't eat solid foods, at least try to drink things that have calories, like a sports drink with electrolytes, like they had in Idiocracy.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Or like thin broths, like a chicken broth can have a bunch of calories in it. Even vegetable broths have some calories. So you want to get it wherever you can. The key here is this. Even if you don't want to eat at all, That's okay. Like most people, especially in the developed world, aren't on the edge of nutrition.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
We all have some reserves that can last us the few days we're not hungry while we're sick. What we don't have is a reserve enough of fluids to keep us going for very long. So you have to, it's not a choice, you have to stay hydrated one way or another.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Well, yeah, I looked that up. So they call that for low alcohol beer. Like I guess session beers basically would be a small beer, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Yeah, I think most people have heard that, right? That's a pretty widespread adage. Sure, yeah. Our friends at the Cleveland Clinic, not normally known for their etymology resources, but they traced this back, at least half of it, to 1574. There's a dictionary that was compiled by a guy named John Withalls. And Withell said that fasting is a great remedy of fever.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I love doing that, too.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Mm-hmm. I'm pretty sure that's what it is.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Water gruel sweetened with honey. Yeah. So I looked all over to see if anybody had conducted a study on whether this was true or not. And thank God our friends over in the Netherlands did it. In 2002, a group of Dutch researchers conducted a study, and they wanted to see whether feeding or calorie restriction has any effect on whether you have a cold or a fever or anything like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
And what's astounding is that they found that it actually does have an effect on the level of your immune system with the types of cells that are produced.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Right. And then kind of as expected, the other group, the group that had to fast. their interferon gamma levels actually went down by about 83%. So they lost some robustness to their immune response because they weren't eating. So, so far, you're kind of like, all right, this makes sense for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
The surprise came with a different kind of immune cell called interleukin-4, which they found actually rose in the group that was fasting.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
No, for sure. That interferon that helps produce antibodies like for specifically targeted to an infection and the interleukin uses our bodies like innate response, like sicking cytokines that you normally have laying around in your body on it. So yeah, you can't game the whole thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
So that's why doctors across pretty much the board say, if you're sick and you feel like you can eat, like you're hungry, eat something for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Well put, especially when people rewind and listen a couple of times.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
Well, Chuck said he hopes so, which means everybody's short stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Feed A Cold, Starve a Fever
So you've got the second part right there, starve a fever, right? It's as far back as anyone's traced it. Although, if you kind of want to expand your definition of what's being discussed here, you can trace it all the way back to Hippocrates, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
And one of the things they did in 1947 was create the doomsday clock. And it essentially is this... I guess it's a graphic representation of how close humanity is to self-inflicted disaster, like a nuclear war.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Well, I think two things would happen. Either it would be something that they would take into account the next year. Yes. Or the world would end and they wouldn't have anything to do anyway.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Yeah, since they started, or when they started, in 1947, when the U.S. and Russia were starting the Cold War, creating nukes, testing nukes out in the open, underground, in space, it was seven minutes to midnight. We're now less than two minutes away from midnight because stuff is just so close to hitting the fan. And we should say that they've actually moved the clock backward a
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Yeah. So the first editor of the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists was Eugene Rabinowich. And Eugene Rabinowich said that the purpose of the doomsday clock is to, quote, frighten men into rationality.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
And to basically say like, hey. You know, this stuff's out of control, people. You need to be paying attention to these things because they don't just say we're 89 seconds from midnight, see you next year. They explain what the reasoning is for moving or even not moving or moving back the second hand.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
And this year, being 89 seconds the closest we've ever been, they had a whole crop of issues that go well beyond the nuclear risk that was originally, the clock was originally designed to track. And I say we take a break and we come back and talk about why we're so close to midnight right now, according to the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
What was it called? 10 Minutes to Midnight?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Hey, and welcome to The Short Step. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. And we're sitting in for Jerry, who usually sits in for Dave. So, yeah, let's go.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Oh, Bronson's not the creepy serial killer? He's being chased by a creepy dude?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Have you ever seen Death Wish 3, where the group of punks is taking over the neighborhood?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
I can't wait till you get your Morgan Freeman down.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Yeah, same with the Middle East right now. That can spiral out of control and suck in nuclear powers against one another. That's a nuclear risk for sure. And then we're back to increasing the size of our nuclear arsenals, which is a reverse of what we were doing in the 80s and 90s, where we were... getting rid of them. That's not a good sign.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
And then one other thing, too, and this is definitely new. Countries that hadn't had nukes before were basically like, well, we're never going to have nukes because that's just not the way things are. It's changed geopolitically. And now countries are starting to think about developing their own nuclear programs where if you have more countries with more nukes, you have that much more risk.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Right. Also, there's the biological arena, as they put it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
That's the most mucousy arena. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Yeah. Also, don't leave AI on the sidelines in their disruptive technology part. They were like, yes, AI. They didn't get into the existential threat that AI itself posed. They more looked at it like, hey, some militaries are starting to incorporate AI in their like battlefield decision-making.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Like we're a step away from AIs deciding whether to kill or not kill, and then eventually giving AIs control over our nuclear arsenals. And that's not a direction we want to be going. And then the whole thing, this is the reason why all these things that have been around for a while or have been developing for a while,
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
have been accelerated to 89 seconds for midnight because of the threat multiplier of misinformation and disinformation and conspiracy theories.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Yeah, and the reason why is because people would be, under that circumstance, they're being led away from paying attention to the stuff the doomsday clock is warning against. And that just makes it that much riskier, too, because we have to be paying attention to it, whether you like it or not.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
That makes me feel good that I wasn't completely unaware that we had done an episode on doomsday clocks.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
For some reason, when I was researching this today, I was like, this is striking me as a little ridiculous. And... Like I get the point of it and I think it is noble and worthy, but there's also some like real, I don't know, real criticisms of it. And I found one piece by a guy named Steven Johnson on Lifehacker.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
And he interviewed Lawrence Krauss, who's a physicist and a member of the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists. Sorry, the New Republic interviewed Krauss. And he said it's not scientific. It's a number that's arrived at by a group of people exploring each of the questions and having a huge amount of discussion and ultimately convergence on a number. That number is frankly arbitrary. And that's true.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
You have to remember it's a metaphor. There's no way to measure it. OK, if we're 89 seconds from midnight right now, how much longer is the world going to last?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
And the big problem with it, I think, is National Geographic put it, if everything's a crisis, nothing's a crisis. So before the whole thing was created to say this one thing, nuclear proliferation, this is what we're warning about. Now you've got climate change, AI, avian flu, disinformation. It's just like being piled on.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
And I think it's really diluted the point and the pointedness of the whole thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Yeah, but it makes it so easy to just be like, oh, well, I give up. I'm going to just go pay attention to, I don't know, flowers versus zombies. Do people play that still?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
I think it was at some point, unless I had a fever dream.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
So the doomsday clock is a metaphorical clock that is operated or overseen by the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, which was a group of scientists who had worked on the Manhattan Project. They got together and they said, we need to create a group that is going to basically keep an eye on this nuclear proliferation that's starting up.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Thanks, Chuck. I appreciate that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Yeah. Yeah. Well, because one of the number one rules in show business is leave them wanting more. I say short stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One Bank Guy. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast, too. Thanks, Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
Right. But there's a there's a long road between the original version of bourgeois that we'll talk about and then the the American version that it has now. And right smack dab in the middle are the commies, specifically Karl Marx.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
I don't understand why Joseph Engels never gets his due because he and Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto, but it's always just Karl Marx, Karl Marx, you know, must drive Engels crazy. But in 1848, they published the Communist Manifesto. And in that, they adopted the word that had formerly been middle class people. It wasn't really much of a put down. It was just a useful word for a while.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
he equated them with the people who owned the capital that the labor was produced on and decided that they were exploiting the proletariat, the working class, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
They're exploitive. They're not actually doing anything. They just own the stuff that the people who are actually doing something are using to do the thing that they're doing. But really, the bourgeoisie are the ones who are making the money off the working class in their labor, right? So it was not – at this time, it was not viewed as a very popular – it wasn't praised. How about that?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
Capital One N.A. Member FDIC. Hello and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry sitting in for Dave. So it's short stuff, you basic person. Are you calling me bougie? Yeah. No, I'm not. I wouldn't do that. I think it's kind of a mean thing to say to somebody, at least in America. In France, they're like, yes, you're right. Thank you. In America, it's a bit of a put down.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
No one ever used it for praise by this time. And when it finally crossed the Atlantic to America – around the early 20th century, the Wobblies, the industrial workers of the world, who were, I believe, we talked about them before, and they were split between communists and anarchists. And there was a big struggle, I think, between the two.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
But regardless of whether you're a communist or an anarchist at the beginning of the 20th century, you were not a fan of the bourgeoisie. And yeah, so the Wobblies did not like the bourgeoisie either. And they, in fact, came up with a new slang term for them.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
Right. We have to thank our friends at the Grammophobia blog for digging that stuff up. That's right. And then so it also kind of morphed in a new way. Kind of the way that that we view it today. But but a little. Yeah, I guess it was pretty much the way we view it today. It first pops up in black culture where it kind of morphed thanks to Gladys Knight and the Pips.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
They had a disco hit in 1980 called Bougie Bougie. And can we hear a snippet? No, we can't, unfortunately. But if you want to hear any of the song Bougie Bougie, you can find it on YouTube or just about anywhere where you can listen to it free and clear. But it's a great song and I strongly recommend people go listen to it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
Right. And the whole point of the song is it's about somebody who comes from the working class or a poorer background, but started to make money and now they're flaunting it. They have like a new car with a sunroof. They have new clothes. And it was a commentary on them, but also kind of like a snide one, too. Like these people...
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
are being tacky in a way and forgetting who they are, where they come from, I guess.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
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Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
Right. Which is just the way that it was. Again, I said it was like a useful word. It wasn't like put down. It wasn't like a compliment. It was like you are bourgeois.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
Right. Very nice. And it wasn't until the 17th century, specifically, I think, in 1670, when Moliere, the French playwright, came up with a musical comedy. He was hilarious. Called Le Bourgeois Gentleman or The Bourgeois Gentleman. And this is when it takes bourgeois and makes fun of it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
Moliere was punching down to the middle class and essentially doing the exact same thing that Gladys Knight and the Pips are doing with Bougie Bougie. They he was basically making fun of some middle class social climber who was trying to make a name for himself in French society.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
Yes, but two things were different. One, the Migos made their money cooking crack in a crock pot, which is a proprietary eponym, and usually there was an Uzi in the same room, too. And two, they were proud of being bougie and all the new money and tacky ways that they threw it around. That was the thing. It wasn't a put-down. They were like, yeah, I'm bougie.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
You should have seen the money I had before, and now look what I got.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
It was a great song. Yeah. OK, so that's where we are today. Bougie, it's it's essentially a put down depending on whether you've claimed it yourself. If most of the time, if you're calling someone bougie in America, you're basically saying, like you said at the outset, they're basic. Their their lifestyle and their life is just kind of boring and pedestrian in the middle of the road.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
And what's the point kind of thing? Usually it's from somebody who. Well, they're just being mean, essentially. Right. But in France, that's not the case.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
Well, yeah, they're very closely related. Bourgeois can mean a it can be an adjective and a noun. Right. If it's a noun, you're talking about one person who is bourgeois. So that's their behavior or it's the one person bourgeoisie is all of the people who are bourgeois. It's a noun only. OK, everybody, there's going to be a quiz at the end of this episode.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
Yeah. And even though there seems to be a bit of a hierarchy to it, they all are they're behaving the same way. I think it just depends on how much money you have is what it's really kind of carved out between. But the bourgeois in France is exactly what Americans who don't know what bourgeois means think of. They're correct, but they're just thinking specifically of the French bourgeois.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Bourgeoisie
And yeah, I guess that's about it for being bougie and bourgeois and bourgeoisie and Karl Marx and Joseph Engels and Migos and Gladys Knight and the whole lot of it, Chuck.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Figs & Wasps
Yeah, so fig wasps and that specific kind of fig apparently co-evolved over the last 60 million years to form a mutually symbiotic relationship, as our friend Connor from Love on the Spectrum would say, where the fig wasp depends on the fig for its reproductive cycle. The fig depends on the fig wasp for its reproductive cycle. And if you didn't have one or the other,
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Figs & Wasps
Yeah, but essentially you're not going to be able to detect it on your tongue. Some people think that the little tiny seeds inside of a fig are wasp parts because there's been such a legend that developed about fig wasps. And it is true to some degree, but for the most part, no, you're not detecting a fig wasp's body or exoskeleton when you're eating a fig. You are eating part of a wasp, though.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Figs & Wasps
Yeah, she makes it all the way to the synconium and finds, like, I've literally just wasted my life. But her life is not a waste because if she didn't accidentally enter a female fig where she was trying to reproduce or lay her eggs in a male fig, then the figs would not get pollinated.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Figs & Wasps
So figs get pollinated because fig wasps sometimes make mistakes when choosing a male or a female fig to burrow into and lay their eggs. I find that amazing.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Figs & Wasps
I protest that there are male and female fig trees. I've seen that they're self-pollinating and hermaphroditic, including the ones that you eat. So I'm going on record as saying that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Figs & Wasps
So I think this is just one of those times where we're going to have to agree to disagree. Do you agree? Sure. That's very agreeable of you.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Figs & Wasps
I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here, too, sitting in for Dave. So this is Short Stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Figs & Wasps
Like, surely, I guess there's some quality control where they take some like 100 ounces or 100 grams of ketchup and count the fruit fly eggs in it, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Figs & Wasps
And if that is like if they find 31 or even 100, that doesn't necessarily mean that the next bottle is going to have the same amount. Because, I mean, we're talking fruit fly eggs, right? From all sorts of different tomatoes in each bottle. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Figs & Wasps
Yeah. And those paper sacks also usually include a tiny cowboy hat and a tiny lasso. And then just one more time to just kind of go over this again, just to calm anybody's fears. You probably are eating some insects. So vegans, you're right. If you don't want to eat insects, you probably should steer clear of figs.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Figs & Wasps
I agree wholeheartedly. Well, since we came up with the T-shirt, obviously, everybody, that means short stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
Like she was really, really famous. She was on Letterman. She was on Carson. And she was an exotic dancer by trade, by profession. And I saw, Chuck, that her act, I saw it described as part nudity, part comedy. Right. Which is kind of tough to pull off, if you ask me.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
But one of the things, in addition to running onto baseball fields that she was known for, that was very attention-getting, was her bust. She was extraordinarily buxom. Apparently, she had a 60-inch bust that required an eye cup. And so that, combined with running onto the field at sporting events and kissing players, it really captured the attention of the American public.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
Yeah. I didn't know that. Which part? The outfield part.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
Yeah, and a great example of her sense of humor, she said later that her career started with a bet from her friends and Pete Rose's career ended with a bet because of course he got caught betting.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
Right. Yeah. I say we take a break and we come back and talk a little more about Morgana and her prolific career.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
Hey, and welcome to The Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here, too, sitting in for Dave. And this is Short Stuff, kind of sports-related, but real pop culture, to tell you the truth.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
Yeah, I think he might have been one of the only ones that she got twice, which is why he got her back. And like I said, she was prolific, right? I think between 1969 and 99, pretty sure this was Sports Illustrated who came up with this stat.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
She kissed over 50 athletes, not to mention managers, umpires, and mascots, including the San Diego Chicken, who just keeps popping up again and again in Stuff You Should Know episodes lately.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
And I think this one was from our friends at Grunge. They said that her presence often doubled the number of fans in the stands. Like she was really well known and she would announce where she was going, what game she was going to attend. And people would just show up because you wanted to see that kind of thing in addition to a game.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
So there was, from what I can tell, and correct me if I'm wrong, there was a love-hate relationship with her because she would disrupt games. But at the same time, she would, Phil, you know, double the attendance in a stadium when she said that she was going to a game, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
Oh, is that what changed things? That particular incident?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
She did have a few encounters with security that ended up pretty rough. There was one, I think the 1970 All-Star game in Cincinnati. The Reds management put a bounty on her, 100 bucks to whoever could catch her because she, I guess, had announced that she was coming. And they did catch her. And I guess they got her on the ground and security started kicking her in the ribs. That's ridiculous.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
Yeah. But despite that, I mean, not just three broken ribs, she also suffered a broken kneecap once. She suffered a broken tailbone, all at the hands of security. But she just apparently shrugged it all off because I read an interview with her from not too long ago where she chalked it up to rent-a-cops getting a little carried away.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
So I think she just kind of took this as like, you know, it kind of goes along with it. It's going to happen from time to time. And she did get arrested quite a bit, but, you know, usually without incident. There was one incident in particular when she rushed the field at an Astros game to kiss Nolan Ryan on the mound. He was on the pitcher's mound. She was kissing him on the cheek.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
And she was arrested and she had to hire an attorney because she was called to defend herself in court, even though she didn't actually have to go through with it. It got far enough that she hired this one particular attorney.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
Yeah, I think the Houston Sports Association got involved. They're like, this is not a good look for Houston, guys. Let's just drop this. So they did. And that was the one time where she had to go to court, was called to court. But that just became part of her legend, too. The gravity defense.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
It's like you can't read an article about Morgana the Kissing Bandit and the gravity defense not get mentioned. It's just part of her legend.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
And one of the other things I saw about her that I wanted to mention, Chuck, was she was apparently like very crafty. I saw it put that there was one time in particular, I think in 1986, she said publicly that she was going to kiss Don Mattingly of the Yankees. She was going to go to New York for a game. And so everybody was on high alert in New York.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
And while they were doing that, she flew to, I guess, Seattle to kiss the Mariners catcher Steve Yeager. So she would use a little deflection and sleight of hand. She wasn't above that, which also, I mean, this lady was pretty cool.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
Yeah, apparently she was born Nancy Lee Rose in Louisville, Kentucky. She started lying about her age at a very young age, as we'll see, because she had a very difficult, really rough adolescence. But she became so famous for this during the 70s and 80s. That at one point, Pete Rose said that he considered her bigger than any one baseball player in the whole game.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Morganna the Kissing Bandit
Great. Well, here's to Morgana the Kissing Bandit, one of the more interesting 20th century figures ever. Short Stuff Friends is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
Yeah, it's pretty amazing. And apparently still today in Iran, Afghanistan and Tajikistan, Tajikistan. Yeah, I said it right the first time. They call the refrigerators yakchals, which is how I would say it if I were in Iran. But that's the name for the fridge, which means that at some point someone in Iran has gone into a store and said, you got a smeg yakchal?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
Some of these were several meters thick. Some of these yak chawls were. There was a study. We got some of this information from the engineering firm Max Fordham. And they did an analysis in 2018 of yak chawls and just how effective they might have been.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
And they found that the walls of a yak chawl had the same insulative properties as a wall of concrete three inches thick surrounded by a one foot thick wrapping of styrofoam insulation. That's how effective these things were. Sand, clay, egg whites, lime, and goat hair, and ash. I was going to say, like, the secret is egg whites, but I don't know. You throw goat hair in there. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
Who knows what the secret is? I think the secret is the whole thing together, the whole ceruge mixture.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
Yeah. And so the channel has a little diversion into a trench or a pit or like a very shallow, like rectangular pond usually. And they'll divert water in there to fill it up. And then they let it freeze overnight. Over the course of a few nights, it'll continue to freeze and freeze and freeze in layers.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
And what they're taking advantage of, you know, like when it snows and then the temperatures heat up and all the snow melts, but there's a little pile of snow like in a shaded corner of your yard that never gets direct sunlight. And it just takes forever to melt. They're taking advantage of the same thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
They're building that big old wall to keep it shaded and just let this ice grow and grow and grow. And then once it reaches, I think, 50 centimeters, which is like about a half a meter thick, then they'll cut it into blocks and they put it in the yak shell and they store it. Through summer, like this stuff will stay frozen for an entire summer.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
So in that sense, these yak chawls are built to store cold throughout the course of a year. Even when the summer comes around, still cold.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
They also have wind catchers that they call badgers. And they actually take wind and direct it downward into the Yakchal Dome. And so the air that hits it is cooled by that ice and the air that's not cooled by it or cooled enough, like you said, that chimney effect takes it up along the curved sides toward the hole in the top and it says, see you later, don't come back.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, Jerry, sitting in for Dave. And so this is Short Stuff, the How Do You Say This Again edition.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
That has to be better than it sounds, don't you think? Oh, I think it sounds great. I think the pistachios are what are throwing me off.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
I do like pistachios. It's just they don't seem to go with the rest of the ingredients. But like I said, I'm sure it's delicious. I mean, it's a traditional Persian dessert. It's got staying power. So who am I to question falooda? Exactly. I bet it's delicious. One of the cool things about this is that yak chals, I mean, and there's some still around.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
I think there's one in Kerman, Iran, that's about the size of a five-story building. So you would think, of course, obviously this was reserved for royalty. You would be dead wrong, because not only were yak chals open and available to the public, there were some that people just built for their houses that were of private use as well.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
And once they figured that out, someone said, go get the donkey.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
One other thing I saw in that Max Fordham analysis, they figured out that they could make about what would be equivalent to three million ice cubes a season. Wow. Yeah, which is a lot. But they were like, you'd think it'd be more. And I was like, it seems pretty good to me, especially in 400 B.C., you know?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
I'm going with the straight ahead yak chals. All right. Okay. So you say it your way throughout. I'll say it my way. And I'm sure I'll inevitably unconsciously start saying it your way.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
That's right. You're absolutely right. I expect that they're probably all donkey head size. So three million donkey head size ice cubes. That's big. Think about the poor donkey that had to cart those around.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
For sure. But also there's a lot to learn from them, especially when we're trying to advance like passive cooling and other things that require less energy to cool things down. Yak chawls are something to turn to and say, how do we do this? And someone says, go get the goat here.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Yakhchāls - Ancient Fridges
What do we do with all these yolks? Yeah. Well, I think that's it for short stuff. Right, Chuck? I think so. Well, that means short stuff is that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Yeah. So after you guys hear this short stuff, you will realize how just preposterous that headline from CNN is.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
So, like you said, they're from East Asia. And in Japan, they're called Juro gummo. And the reason I say Joro, a lot of people say Joro, which makes sense because it's spelled J-O-R-O. But in the Japanese spelling, there's a long symbol over the second O. So the first one would not be a hard O. It'd be J-O-R-O. Okay. That's right. And that means entangling or binding bride.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
And you'll see why they call them that. In Korea, they're called Mudang Gumi. Okay. which means shaman or fortune teller. So however you slice it, these things have pretty cool names and aptly so, because like you said, they're just absolutely beautiful and they are pretty good size enough so that you can see like all of them pretty clearly.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Yeah, they also have orange bands like around their legs. They're just really, really pretty. The males of the gyrospiders, too, are smaller and they're kind of drab looking. So if you ever see a gyrospider and you're like, wow, that is a cool looking spider. It's a female every time.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
And then the other dead giveaway is if it's spinning a web, it's a female because only the females spin webs for gyrospiders. And you said you walked face first into or you almost walked face first into a web? Correct. Have you ever run into one?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Yeah. So one of the things that's characteristic of gyrospider webs is they don't necessarily break. Like it takes a lot to just walk through them. Like you can walk through them and you're kind of going to bounce off a little bit. It's not, you know, not going to send you flying backwards, but it's not just going to snap as you walk through it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
And I saw that those webs are so strong, birds can perch on them. Like it's not like the bird's getting caught in the web, but they can like Just perch on the web for a little while while they figure out where to fly next.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. There's Jerry there. And we're caught in a web of greatness because this is short stuff from stuff you should know.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
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Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
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Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
So one of the reasons that gerospiders are spreading so quickly is because they're very new. Like you said, a little over 10 years since they were first spotted in the U.S., which means that predators haven't, I guess, spotted them yet. So they have a ready supply of flying insects. They apparently particularly like stink bugs.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
And little competition for those insects, in part, I think, because they weave their web higher than other spiders that they would be competing with for food. And so an ample supply of food and no predators means that any species is going to just boom for a while. And that's what we're in. We're in the golden age of gyrospiders booming all over the eastern United States.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Yeah. So a little bit more about the actual spiders themselves and how they behave. You'll notice like there's a couple of different webs basically right up on each other. Gyrospiders live very close together. I guess they're not super territorial, if at all. And again, if you see a beautiful spider in the web, it's a female. And there's probably a male trying to get to her.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
And he's using all sorts of cute little tricks to make his way from one place to another toward his intended love target.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
I would not say that. I get so deeply disturbed by that word for some reason. Oh, me too.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Oh, my God. That and moist. And if you put them together.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
They apparently also the males will like fly float on the air. With a little bit of gossamer, like a little parachute or a hang glider from like tree to tree or branch to branch, making their way toward a web, which is pretty cute if you ask me.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
I've seen a bunch of them myself. We have them all over the house. And I had been remarking to myself, like, wow, these things are all over the place. And you sent this and I was like, oh, well, that's why they're an invasive species here in Georgia. South Carolina for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
No, you shouldn't. For one thing, it's not entirely clear what kind of impact they're having on the ecosystems they move into, but there's certainly no apocalyptic impacts going on because everything seems to be fine and the other spider populations don't seem to be shrinking as the gyrospiders move in. That's a really bizarre thing if that's true, if they're having like no weird impact.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
But again, they expect that they're going to start being predated on. That's harder to say than you'd think.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Pretty soon. So we shouldn't have much to worry about. And I hope this isn't one of those podcasts that ages like milk, you know? Yeah. But yes, I'm hoping that all the entomologists are right where they're like, just relax, everybody. They're poisonous or they're venomous and they will bite you under certain circumstances.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
But if you leave them alone or even if you walk into their web, more often than not, they're going to run away from you. So to answer your question in a very long roundabout way, no, you should not kill them.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
No. And this article likened it to a bee sting. And I remember Yumi getting bitten by one of these. And I asked her, I was like, was it like a bee sting? She's like, no, it wasn't nearly as bad. Yeah. So I decided that wasn't a dramatic enough story. So I was going to tell everybody that her hand blew up like a cabbage patch doll. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
She was gardening and they are all over our yard. They got in like one of her rose bushes while she was deadheading her roses. And yeah, she got too close and it went, and that was that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
Yeah, for sure. Especially those heavy-duty ones. You got anything else? I don't think so. No, I feel like we covered everything, Chuck. You know what that means. Mm-hmm. Short Stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Joro Spiders
And they're starting to move a little bit northwestward into other southern states like Tennessee and Alabama, but definitely up the eastern seaboard. And what we're talking about is what CNN called giant venomous Joro spiders are infiltrating parts of the U.S.,
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
Yes. Distant thunder. Rumbling thunder even. Yeah. Yeah. So obviously that's very alluring. Everybody likes those sounds. So brown noise makes sense. And because there's also white noise and pink noise, you think brown noise is just named after the color brown. Like for some reason, maybe it evoked the color brown in the person who named it. Wrong.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
There was a scientist named Robert Brown from Scotland who in the very early 1800s was looking at pollen grains through his microscope and saw them basically dancing around. And he said, this is not possible because pollen is not alive. And he had no idea what this was, but he published his paper so that future generations could solve it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
And apparently no less than Albert Einstein took it on and found this was an excellent demonstration of atomic particles interacting and basically moving ultimately these pollen grains along. the reason that it's named after Robert Brown, Brown Noises, because he tried to figure out how to quantify these random movements, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh Clark, and this is Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's there. She doesn't have a sound associated with her because she's already listening to sound, and this is short stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
Yeah, well, other people who came used his formula to generate sound. I don't understand it either.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
Yeah, I mean, it's all math, so technically you could use math to translate into other kinds of math, I'm guessing. But just the idea of, yeah... Figuring out how random movements can turn into sound is just, I love that stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
Let's talk about this offline, Chuck, while we take a break.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
One of the coolest things I learned ever is that in Kyoto, Japan, there is a the sound of wind blowing through bamboo in this one park is a protected heritage site. Like the sound itself is protected as a world heritage site.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
That's cool. I think you're confusing that with Q-Bert.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
Pink noise is a little different. It's kind of like the compromise between white noise and brown noise because the white noise includes all frequencies. A lot of people are like, I don't like those high frequencies, especially when I'm trying to sleep. But I'm not down with just nothing but the low bass heavy stuff. Give me some mid range.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
And maybe accentuate the lower and higher things a little bit, but not too much. And if you do that kind of stuff, you have pink noise.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
Yeah, it's called Dwellspring. The guy who created our website, Brandon Reed, friend of the show and just friend in general, and also one-time world record holder, Guinness record holder of the 400-meter piggyback. Man, what a dude. Yeah, he created just a world-class sound generator app. And in addition to all the different colored noises, he also has things like a box fan.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
Yeah, it's really great. I mean, like, it's a really good app. The one that got me was crackling fireplace in a thunderstorm.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
Go check out Dwellspring. It really is a good app. And I think it's everywhere you can get apps.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
Okay. But still, falling asleep, not being able to fall asleep is a part of insomnia. Not being able to get back to sleep is another part of it, too. So, yeah, I mean, I would say that's great. A year before, somebody decided that they wanted to see how – how much better you could recall vocabulary words if you slept using pink noise.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
And I guess they found that 16 young adults who slept with pink noise had slightly improved recollection of vocabulary words. So they were like, and pickle. Whereas the control group couldn't ever remember pickle.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
They're like, man, I should have slept with pink noise.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
And again, that word was pickle. That's right. There was a study in Iran. This is probably the most robust of all of them. They looked at 60 elderly coronary patients. And they said half of you are going to sleep with white noise. The other half are not going to have white noise. But all of you are in a hospital.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
I used to try it, too, during work. It is supposed to help you focus and at the very least drown out other noises. But it just didn't take with me, at least at first, at least for working.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
And if you've ever tried to sleep in a hospital, it should be illegal, the sounds that they have, because your sleep just deteriorates the longer you're in the hospital. It's awful. Yumi took care of her brother when he was in the hospital for like three weeks. She would stay there overnight. It's tough.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
She would, in addition to just all the bings and the beeps and all that stuff, the nurses come in and they're just like, hey, how's it going? It's time for your blood pressure. And it's three in the morning. And that happens every, like, you know, there's something that wakes you up every 20 minutes.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
And it's just so nuts that hospitals are just so aloof about that when we all know how important sleep is. And then that and the nutrition in hospitals is abysmal as well. I should say American hospitals. Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to go off on that because it is something that should be fixed and remedied.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
It'd be like going to get your tires changed at Sears and they keep tacks all over the floor. You know, like they're trying to they're just sabotaging themselves and doing what they're supposed to be doing, which is healing.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
Yeah. Not bad. Yeah, for sure. I mean, like just put a white noise generator in every single room or give every patient wellspring.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
Yes. But I get it for sleep, for sure, which is what most people use it for. Jerry's an odd duck.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Colorful Noises
You got anything else, man? I got nothing else. I think that was very nice of you. You gave some great advice to people who have trouble sleeping, which my heart goes out to people like that for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I guess that means short stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Hey, what if I told you that you could switch your business software to an interconnected suite of programs that's more efficient and simpler than what you're using and would cost a fraction of what you're spending? You might think, oh, wow. But you should think, oh, do.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
He was just amazing in a really kind of specific way.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Yeah. So, but also if he grew up in the Midwest, like... The stuff he was doing, there's not many places to learn that. I mean, I guess if you're from like upper Minnesota or something, but I'm guessing comparing an upper Minnesota winter to an upper Canada winter is like night and day.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Uh, they don't necessarily contend that he could have been a transplant from Sweden who was just raised in like a Swedish speaking community.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah. Um, apparently based on his teeth, uh, isotopes that he was, he was raised in or grew up in the Midwest.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Yeah, but I don't think we ever mentioned it on the episode, on the podcast, did we?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Great, great. Well, if it ever comes out who the mad trapper of Rat River was, everybody, we want to know so we can tell everybody else. For sure. Yeah. And in the meantime, Chuck, I think short stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Yeah. And we're talking like the northernmost parts of Canada, like basically along the Arctic Ocean.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Oh, do is that suite of software I'm talking about with all the business software you need from CRM to sales to HR on one platform. Discover how Odoo can take your business to the next level by visiting Odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. Hi and welcome to the short stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Yeah. He was essentially living where the guys from the Terror and the Erebus that we talked about were trying to get to. When they were like on their march down toward Canada, they had they done this in 1931, they might have run into Albert Johnson. He was that far up. Right. So this is a really, really rugged, wild, dangerous place to live.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
And like you said, he arrived in July and a few months after that, I think in November or December of 1931. Yeah. OK, December of 1931, a couple of trappers from the First Nations who lived up there got in touch with one of the local police and said, hey, there's this guy. His name's Albert Johnson, and he's messing with our trap lines and he's not supposed to do that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
So can you go tell him to stop doing that? And three days later, a couple of cops just knocked on Johnson's cabin door, assuming that they were just going to talk to him and tell him to stop doing that. And that would be that right.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
He pulled down the blind and went, masher.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Yeah, they threw dynamite on his roof to flush him out. And it certainly blew up the roof as expected. It also took down some of the walls of the cabin. And amazingly, Albert Johnson survived. And even more amazingly, he still refused to come out. And engaged in a gunfight with this posse that the Mounties had assembled to go take this guy out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Because, like, he shot at an officer who just wanted to tell him to stop messing with trap lines. Like, shot and tried to kill him, right? So this guy was already a big deal by this time. And he managed to hold off this posse from taking him alive. They actually had to get out of there because they were running low on food and the weather was terrible.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
This is December in the northernmost reaches of Canada along the Arctic. Not a time you want to be outside. Apparently the temperature was negative 45 and this guy's holding these guys down in a gunfight. And then they leave and four days later they come back and now they find that this destroyed cabin is now empty. He's fled and a blizzard has covered up his tracks.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
I'm Josh, there's Chuck, Jerry's here too sitting in for Dave and the three of us are on the run to the Canadian Arctic recreating the story of the Mad Trapper and it's not going very well for us.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Yeah, it's definitely on my to-do list.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
So I don't think we've said yet. Now there's a manhunt underway. This guy who they want to take in for shooting at cops is on the run in the Canadian wilderness. And this manhunt lasted seven weeks from December to mid-February. This guy kept evading them. They'd catch up to him. He'd shoot at them. They'd have a firefight.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
One time he killed a cop, Constable Millen, who was like a member of this posse that was hunting him down. And he would manage to fend them off every time they caught him in a firefight. And one of the other interesting facts about this, Chuck, is this is the first time an aircraft was ever used in a manhunt, as far as anyone knows.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Yeah, I saw a photo that he took from his aircraft of like this. He was really high up. And there's a little tiny speck in the middle of a frozen river. And it's identified as Albert Johnson. And then there's like three more tiny specks coming out of the wood line chasing after Johnson. And Wat May got a picture of it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
And it's just when you understand what you're looking at, it's just astounding what these guys were running through.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Over the course of seven weeks. It's nuts.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
And so people heard about this thanks to the radio, which was still a pretty new invention. But this story that was kind of playing out over the news in real time actually helped sell a bunch of new radios because people didn't want to miss out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Yeah, this is, I saw it referred to as like an iconic Canadian story. This guy just tore us up in 1931, made international headlines. And died, it's still to this day, no one knows who he is. And not one of those things where like, we're pretty sure it's this guy. We just can't prove it. They have no idea who this guy is. They're starting to kind of chew around the edges of it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
That is so unsettling. It is totally. It's another thing that just kind of adds to his legend, too.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
So, yeah, people by this time, this was during the Depression, and a lot of the public that was following the story were actually rooting for him. Because remember, this was a time when the public rooted for like bank robbers and other criminals and outlaws because the establishment had basically screwed everything up and taken advantage of everybody. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Um, so there were people who were pulling for him and even if you weren't pulling for him, it was just astounding what this guy was doing with just some, I think he had a rifle and a shotgun. He had his clothes and he was like out maneuvering and surviving against this, um, posse that was on his trail. Um,
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
And I also saw, Chuck, that one of the unsung or overlooked groups that was part of this posse were some of the First Nation members who helped track him, that this posse probably would have lost his trail in the first few days had it not been for the trackers that came with him.
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Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
I didn't. I just saw that one of the members' last name was Rat. So I'm guessing he was named after the Rat River.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Yeah. So at this point, they're like, this guy is not human.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
And again, another First Nations member comes through. I think somebody came back and mentioned that they heard a rifle shot in this like totally desolate area. And the Royal Canadian Mountie Posse were like, well, they can only be Albert Johnson. And they headed that way and they found his trail and they started chasing him. They engaged in one last firefight with them.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
And this one, Albert Johnson didn't come out of alive.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Yeah. Yeah. Which is just deepens the mystery further. By the way, one other thing. It was Charlie Ratt, who was the guy that helped the Mounties find. Oh, nice. Albert Johnson.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
So they had a picture of him. There's a very well, I guess, famous if you're Canadian picture of his dead body on like a morgue slab.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
No, he looks rough and tough for sure. He does. You could not know his story and see that picture of his dead body and be like, I'll bet that guy could survive in the Canadian wilderness for seven weeks with the cops on his trail.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
So they they took this picture because they wanted to circulate. Everybody wanted to know who this guy was. And it made it in all the papers in Canada and the United States. And no one came forward. The details of his life and demeanor didn't match anything that anybody knew of. I mean, like people came forward with tips, but none of them were legitimate or panned out. And
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
Very quickly, this guy just became this anonymous weirdo who did some crazy stuff in the winter of 1931. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
But the fact that he is still unidentified just makes it that much more interesting. But even if you were identified, Chuck, his story is still just totally fascinating on its own.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Mad Trapper of Rat River
No. And this company called Othram, a genome sequencing company, they have figured out a few other things about him that he almost certainly grew up in the Midwestern United States. His autopsy revealed that he had extensive and expensive dental work and that he had scoliosis. This guy did this for seven weeks, scaled a near vertical face cliff with scoliosis as well.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
No, we made it out alive, basically. Because if you get dropped on by a drop bear, they're very patient. They're very quiet. They'll wait for hours up in a treetop for someone to pass by. And then they drop out right on top of you, like you said. You're dead. You're toast. So had we met a drop bear, one or both of us would not be sitting here today.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
I hadn't thought about that. Yeah, they're like, don't these guys know? Man, you do the best New Zealand accent.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
Yeah. So, yeah, we should probably tell everybody who isn't from Australia that drop bears are made up. They're a myth. They're a joke, really, a longstanding, pranky joke that Australians play on newcomers and tourists and travelers and visiting military, that kind of thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
Well, I saw one of the things that is part of this legend is that the Australian government doesn't recognize the existence of drop bears in reality because they don't exist. But as part of the legend, it's because the Australian government is covering up their existence because they don't want to harm the tourist industry in Australia.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
Because, again, they jump on tourists, basically people who don't have Australian accents.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
Exactly. So we said the Australian government is part of it. So a lot of other institutions have contributed to kind of keeping this idea alive. I saw an article in The Conversation about drop bears and surviving drop bear attacks. And it was totally straight from start to finish. There wasn't even a little disclaimer in italics at the end.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
And they've even been given a scientific name, Thylactos plumatus. That's pretty funny. It is. It's great.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
Yeah. And people were living at this time. This is during the last ice age. So there were people in Australia at the time. Aborigines were there and they would have seen and possibly interacted with this marsupial lion. So it raises the question, like, is this actually like an echo from the past? Like this is this drop bear prank is actually based on like a human knowledge.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
of the fact that there was something similar years back and it just got passed down all this time and then morphed into the prank. Some people say no. I think there's a possibility. It just seems weird to have come up with that. independently, I could also be overthinking it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
Hey, and welcome to The Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and it's just us. No Dave, no Jerry, no nothing. But we are here, and being tourists walking through the Australian bush right now, we need to be careful of drop bears.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
Yeah, but the year before, a post-punk band called The Drop Bears had formed back in 1981. I went and looked up one of their videos for a song called Fun Loving. Good? Yeah, it was not bad. Okay.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
But, yeah, so Drop Bears somehow just came out of nowhere. That term did. Yeah. But there had been this idea of a koala-like animal dropping from trees and attacking people. That had been around at least in print since the 1920s. It seems to have been a military prank. Like that's where it kind of was kept alive all of the decades.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
But it eventually made the leap to pop culture thanks to a guy known in Australia as Hoag's. His name is Paul Hogan. Here in the United States, we know him as Crocodile Dundee.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
Yeah. So within a few years, this thing crosses over to the mainstream. Drop bears are attached as the name, and it just becomes an institution in Australia, apparently.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
Apparently one. So remember, they're telling like soldiers in Australia are telling like some American detachment that's visiting or doing training exercises or something to do these things. And apparently they do sometimes. One is to put dabs of toothpaste behind your ears. I mean, that's very tame. I mean, toothpaste, of course.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
Yeah, yes. But I mean, just the fact that you did something that they can demonstrate you did that. That's enough when they tell you that this whole thing's a joke and you're a total moron.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
Yeah, might bite your skull open with its molars, might use its fangs to bite your neck, and you're dead. You're dead when a drop bear drops on you because they can get fairly big. I saw about the size of leopards. Leopards average something like 6 feet long, 7 feet long, weighing between 100 to 200 pounds. This is a big animal.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
Australia, you should know by now, no one outside of Australia likes Vegemite. That's just your thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
That's right. Um, so, uh, another one was putting forks in your hair, which I mean, you'd have to have thick curly hair to hold a fork in your hair.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
Same here. Yeah. And then you could wear a neck guard. That would be the funniest one to me. That's what I would try to get people to do. Remember like the old school neck guards that like in that episode of the Brady Bunch where there's the car accident? The person that Mike Brady hit was wearing like a neck protector to keep them from turning their head.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
And then he throws the briefcase and they look really quickly and Mike Brady proves his case. Foiled. Yeah. Yeah. If I could get somebody to wear one of those to protect against a drop bear attack, I would feel pretty good about myself.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
All right. Well, keep sharp, man, because I'm going to try it sometime.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
What do you mean? What was sad? No, no, no, no. Did I say sad? Yeah, you said it's kind of sad. Did I? Either that or I've just totally lost my mind finally.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
Maybe you guys can write in and tell us. In the meantime, everybody, Short Stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Drop Bears
The thing that makes it so crazy is that it looks a lot like a koala except with orange wiry hair.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
That was not a pleasant thing to have applied to you. And it basically meant that, buddy, you're on your own. It was it was applied at least in a lot of cases to fugitives. But like we think of fugitives today is like people who the U.S. Marshal Service goes and gets like we talked about in Operation Flagship. That kind of falls under the same rubric.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
But this was a fugitive in that like they were summoned to court. They decided not to come to court. And after a certain procedure, they were declared outlaws and that that meant like the law no longer applies to them. All the protections that are afforded to you are gone. And it does seem a little harsh, I have to say, for just failing to appear in court.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
Yeah. And so like today, our conception of outlaw or modern conception, like, say, applying to Johnny Cash, like you said, or Jesse James or even Robin Hood, they're not types to show up to a legal summit. So they definitely do kind of fall into that same category. But we kind of have it backwards in that we we think of those people as like they chose a life of crime outside the law. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
They're outlaws. Right. But in reality, with outlawry, the law itself has withdrawn itself from you and left you outside the law. Kind of in a really catty turn, the law is like, oh, you don't recognize my jurisdiction over you. You're not going to come to court when we ask you to. Well, then fine. I guess you don't need my protections anymore either. Hence, you're an outlaw.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, sitting in for Dave. And this is a very special short stuff, Chuck, because Dave requested this topic so long ago that I don't even remember when he did.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
Yeah. And it was a big deal to be declared outlaws. We'll see. I say we take our little break. Let's do it. Come back and talk about outlawry a little more. How about that?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
Okay, so when you were declared an outlaw, essentially the way I saw it written was that it amounted to a conviction as well as an extinction of civil rights. So there were different kinds of outlawry. Just failing to appear in court seemed like outlaw light, spelled L-I-T-E. But there was also major outlawry, in which case you were really in trouble.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
Like big felonies, treason, rebellion, like big deal stuff. could have you labeled a major outlaw. And again, like if they did find your cache of chickens, those were theirs now. They could take them. Any like real property you had, anything that was yours, they could seize and keep. And that's pretty standard stuff even still today.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
Like if you get caught with suspected drug money, the sheriff just keeps your money and says, prove it's not drug money. That's not like completely out of the norm. The thing that really makes outlawry very surprising to us today is anybody could come and take your property. Anybody could come and beat you up and kill you.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
And because the law no longer applied to you, there was no law that was broken when they murdered you. They weren't breaking a law. You had no protection any longer. And that's the thing that makes it really kind of shocking as far as like a legal formality is concerned to us today.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
And you would end up being an indentured servant. And one of the other things I read about that that was kind of interesting that really drove the point home. It's not just like I'm an indentured servant over here now. I wish I wasn't. Like maybe around your area, you might have some sympathetic friends that might hide you or bring you food out in the woods or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
In America or Australia, you probably knew no one. So you had no help whatsoever. And you truly were ostracized. So that in and of itself was a big deal. Another thing that could happen to you, too, is if the sheriff ever did catch up with you, like there was a very high chance you were just killed on sight because it was a death sentence for you as well.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
Like they had no obligation to bring you in. If they wanted to just kill you and get over with it, the sheriff could do that to you.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
I'm kidding. I didn't, Chuck. It was a good one. I'm glad you pointed it out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
Probably not. A few people would. And those people were very satisfied that you just said that. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
No. Yeah. But, yeah, I can't remember who Hanson was. I think we talked about them in the episode, too. But, yeah, that was a long time ago, but it's a good episode. Haven't heard it in a while. Same. There were some ways to have your outlaw status revoked. One of them was just showing up to court. Yeah. There was a specific court you had to go to. It was the King's Bench. In London.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
So you had to make your way to London and you basically pled to have it removed. And I think that that was part of the procedure because, again, if you showed up to the court that had called you in the first place, you might be murdered. And that would be that. Yeah. So that was, I think, the initial part of the process.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
And there does seem to be like a pretty generous amount of forgiveness for, you know, lesser crimes, I think, like that where you just hadn't shown up. Right. Especially if you're like, I'm sorry, my foot, I twisted my ankle jogging and I just couldn't make it to court. Or, you know, my stupid cousin was supposed to take me, but his cart broke down, that kind of thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
The court would probably take pity on you and remove your outlaw status because now you were playing ball with them, which is the whole point of them conferring you an outlaw is that you hadn't in the first place. What was really shocking to me is that this same stuff could be applied to somebody in a civil case. Like somebody's like, this guy stole my chickens.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
And we are finally. So this one's for you, Dave. And it's a good idea, too, because most people think of outlaws as a specific, you know, like. Like Johnny Cash. Yes, exactly. A lot of people think of Johnny Cash when they think outlaw, don't they? Yeah. Outlaw country music. It's a thing. But this turns out to have been an actual legal standing. Yes. That could be applied to people.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
I'm going to sue you and you didn't show up. You could also be considered an outlaw for that, too. That's just nuts.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
And it wasn't until 1879 that England revoked that part of their outlaw statute that it couldn't be used in civil cases anymore. But as far as I know, and I looked high and low for definitive proof of this, but just from references I saw, it seems like there's still outlaw books or outlaw statutes on the books for criminal acts.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Outlawry
You got anything else? I got nothing else. Well, Dave, this was a great idea. Thanks for it. Short Stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
You can get out of this if you buy the contract. So you pay me what the mob's paying me to kill you. You pay me to not kill you and we'll just call it even. And not only was that a way for the scumbag of a killer to make double the amount on the contract,
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
by basically duping Charles Morgan into thinking he could buy his way out of it, it also was a great excuse to get him to an isolated spot to hand over the money, as it were, but really to murder him out there in the desert. If you look at it like that, this guy was so in over his head, and he was trying so hard to save himself. It's so sad. This is just...
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
For some reason, this one really gets me. I don't know if it's because it was recent enough or what, but there's just a lot to it that really makes me sad for him and his family.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
Agreed. There's some other weird stuff to this case, so I would suggest that anybody who is interested, go check it out. You can read a lot about it. And in the meantime, RIP Chuck Morgan and Short Stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
Exactly. Before he said, let's go get lunch.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
Yeah. So he was an escrow agent. And the escrow agent, as anyone who's ever bought a house knows, is the person who holds the money.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
They're this impartial third party who follows a set of rules about keeping and dispersing money. And basically wants the sale of some high value thing, almost always real estate. But sometimes things like if you're buying a bunch of gold or you're buying a private jet or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
There's going to be an escrow agent involved because you don't just hand over the money and hope for the best. And then once everybody's signed and all the stuff is legal and set, then the money gets sent out. But they hold it in escrow.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
And by being an escrow agent, not just Charles Morgan, but any escrow agent, I think even still today, is in a really good position to help organize crime launder money.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
What? Good one, man. I love that. That's the best one since sniff him off the case. Oh, man. Yeah. That's wonderful. As it was coming out of my mouth, I knew that it was not right. 17 years in, and you're still doing it, man. I appreciate that. I love it.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
Yeah, because again, like you said, just taking tainted money, money made from selling drugs, you put it in an escrow account, it gives it legitimacy. If the escrow agent isn't asking where it came from, from that point forward, once it's in the escrow account, that's when the paper trail really kind of starts.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
So if they use that money to buy, legitimately buy legal gold and platinum and then turn around and sell that, that illicit drug money just became legitimate in the eyes of everybody. Thanks again in part with the help of Charles C. Morgan. And did you say he oversaw a billion dollars worth of transactions in the few years he was doing this?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
A billion dollars. That's what Don Devereaux estimated that journalists for Unsolved Mysteries. And like you said, he he was a good guy. That's the sad part of all of this. He wasn't some scumbag. He wasn't a scale. He seems to have gotten in over his head. He was definitely helping the mafia launder their money or organized crime.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck. He's older than 50, it turns out. And there's Jerry. And this is short stuff. And let's go.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
But he was also a dedicated family man who cared very much about the safety of his family. And I say we take a break and come back and really kind of get into the sad story of Charles Morgan's death.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
Okay, so surely there's other people out there who know much more about this and the chain of events that led to this. But if you take it from the story of Ruth Morgan, Charles Morgan's wife, the whole thing starts in March of 1977, when all of a sudden, one day, Charles Morgan goes missing. And he's missing for three days, and he finally turns back up.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
But when he turns back up, he's not carrying like flowers and chocolate to apologize. He shows up missing a shoe, among other things.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
Yeah, so I get the impression that he wasn't just telling his wife that because he didn't feel like talking to her. I think he was naive enough that somebody told him that they did that, and that he was really worried it was true.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
No. I mean, you would still absorb whatever drug through the mucous membranes of your mouth.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
I don't know, but I did see that Ruth nursed him back to health from different sources. So I don't know what the deal was. He also was handcuffed. So it could have been, you know, trauma from that. Who knows? But he didn't want her to call the cops because, like I said, he was dedicated to his family and he did not. He was so up against the wall that he could not involve the cops.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
He had to figure out how to do this himself. I mean, like people write entire books about this situation. few week segment of Charles C. Morgan's life. That was the kind of trouble he found himself in.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
Okay. I think when you, yes, you're right. No, it's not bizarre.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
Yeah, pretty much. So things kind of, like you said, get back to normal a little bit. But that was March of 1977. In May, a few weeks later, he suddenly went missing again. And this time, I mean, I can't imagine the dread Ruth experience. Like the first time, I'm sure she was like, where is that Charles? And she had a rolling pin in her hand or something like that waiting for him to come home.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
This time... After he showed up the way that he did, after he started wearing a bulletproof vest, as scared as he was, and then also not letting her in on anything, him disappearing a second time had to be torture for her. I think he was gone nine full days before she got a phone call from an anonymous woman. And it was a bizarre phone call.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
So let's say that if the whole case wasn't bizarre, Chuck, there's bizarre elements. And this is definitely one of them.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
It is unsung in that it doesn't even have a Wikipedia page. No mention of this whatsoever on all of Wikipedia, which is very surprising. But we're talking about the death of a man named Charles C. Morgan. who died in May of 1977 in the desert outside of Tucson, Arizona. And his death was, like you said, almost certainly a murder.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
Yeah. I mean, yeah. But it was also really odd. I mean, I'm sure if I had read much more around it, it would have made a little more sense. But the end of it being just the way that it did, I think somebody said, like, lies. These are all lies at the end. Yeah. Which is not, you know, it was just really strange. Yeah. So, yes, I find that bizarre that that was even mentioned.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
And it also comes up again after that. Right. So this Ecclesiastes 12 colon. verses 1 through 8, is also mentioned on a $2 bill that was found on Charles' body, Chuck's body. Not you, Chuck. I hate to even say that out loud, just the thought of this happening to you. Yeah, I appreciate that. It was on this $2 bill.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
He had written Ecclesiastes 12, and then he circled a 1 and an 8 that were in the serial number of this $2 bill to reference that this was in verses 1 through 8.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
I've never seen any explanation for what his tooth was doing wrapped up in a handkerchief.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
Yeah, I guess. And then left. There's not really any bigger message that you could send rather than leaving his dead, murdered body right by the car. Why would you put his tooth and a handkerchief in the car? It's just strange to me. You know what? I would even go so far as to call it bizarre.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
He said, I thought you said, leave the tooth, grab the cannoli. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
No. And that's really just such a sad twist, too, because he seems to have spent the last week of his life on the run under the idea that he had some hope. He had hope that maybe just maybe he could get out of this by buying that contract back and maybe this would all go away. But it does seem that he did have a contract on his life for real.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
But it was pronounced suicide by the local sheriff, even though the coroner was like, I don't know what this was. Everyone else on the planet will tell you it's a murder, especially once you know the details, which we're going to get into right now.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: The Death of Charles Morgan
That it was because he was informing on the mafia to the feds, the Treasury Department specifically. So that does seem to have been true. And then that journalist for Unsolved Mysteries, Don Devereaux, he posits, and this makes a lot of sense, that the hitman did get in touch with Chuck Morgan and said, I'm afraid to tell you this, but I'm coming to kill you. But.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
And their families would presume that over the course of that week, this couple had had premarital sex. So when they came back, the couple was like, now you have to agree to letting us get married. And in fact, it's going to be a specific type of marriage that's prescribed by law and socially. It's called the matrimonial repertory. It's called a rehabilitating marriage, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
Yeah. And so it's a no-win situation here, right? Because if you wanted to be not ostracized by your community, if you wanted to ever get married because no one would marry you after you were essentially tainted goods because you had been sexually assaulted by this man, the only way out of it was to consent to this rehabilitating marriage because it would restore your honor.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
And then also conveniently, it erased any criminal act that had led to that marriage. Legally, it let the man off the hook for kidnapping and sexual assault because the woman had married him, even though she had no choice. If she ever wanted to get married and say have kids, her only chance now was with the man who had kidnapped and sexually assaulted her. That's just how that worked.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
Yeah. So Melodia kept trying over and over again to win her back. And she kept saying no every time. So as each time he was becoming angrier and angrier, and also he was humiliated every time that she turned him down. So he hatched a plan. where he would kidnap Franca from her home. He and 15 other men did on the day after Christmas in 1965.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
And he held her at a farmhouse, and he sexually assaulted her there over the course of a week, which effectively triggered that matrimonial repertory. Like, it gave her no choice at that point. Then after the week, she was released. And then as part of this custom, initially Melodia and his accomplices were arrested. But the choice was up to Franca to press charges or to marry the guy.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
That was her choice. And again, up to this point, as far as we know, every single woman put in this position agreed to marry the person who kidnapped and sexually assaulted her.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
Hey, and welcome to The Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and Chuck's here, and Jerry's here for Dave. So that makes this an official short stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
Right. She also said to him directly from the stand, I do not love you. I will not marry you. And she was despite she was going against all custom. And again, like I think it's worth pointing out, her family stood by her and rather than pressuring her to do, you know, what the what the community and society wanted her to do. That was extremely brave of them as well.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
And in return for her bravery and courage, she won. Melodia lost his case. And because rape and kidnapping were still crimes in Sicily and Italy, he was sentenced to 11 years in prison, ended up serving 10. And seven of his 15 accomplices received four-year sentences each.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
And I guess kind of joyously, two years after Filippo Melodia got out of prison, so he spent 10 years in prison, within two years he'd been gunned down in Modena in Italy, famous for its balsamic vinegar. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
Yeah. So if you go down to Sicily in southern Italy and ask them what a fuatina is, they will say, uh... We don't really do that anymore, but we'll tell you what it is anyway. It means sudden escape. And in its most benign form, it was a way for couples who were consenting.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
Yeah. Surprisingly, there's a huge happy ending to this. Giuseppe is another person who deserves credit for standing by her, too. He was honestly her only chance. He was the only man who could step up and restore her honor. Because essentially, they got married under a matrimonio reprare.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
And yeah, it was a celebration by the country so much so that Italy's president, and I think Mashable pointed this out, Italy's president directly sent them a wedding present of $40, which would be over $250 today. And the transport minister gave them a month of free railway rides. So like this woman. Rail pass. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, a month of it. That's pretty good for a newlywed couple.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
Right. Yeah. So they she she went from scorned and people in the media talking about how her life was basically over. She's going to be a spinster to being celebrated in Italy. by the very people who had essentially tried to pressure her into submitting to Melodia's advances.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
Yeah, the food chain is still around and the rehabilitation marriage is still around. But the key is that if you rape the woman, you are no longer off the hook if she marries you. And yeah, the fact that it took... More than a decade is a little unnerving. But that was one of the things that she did. She kind of shined an international spotlight on this really backwards custom.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
And Italy and Sicily were kind of like shrinking a little bit in the spotlight because it just made them look so bad. So that was one thing she did. And also she was credited for inspiring no less than four women in the same situation, four, to press charges on their abductor and assaulter by the time she even got to trial. Who knows how many she inspired after that.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
So she changed this custom that was so old, you can't even tell when it would have began.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
They wanted to get married, but their families were like, no, we don't approve of this union and therefore you can't get married. It was a way for them to elope. All right. So the fuatina was essentially an elopement. So the key to the fuatina, though, was that the couple would wait a little while, say a week, and then they would return home.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
Yes. And in an even happier part of the happy ending, on International Wednesday in 2014, President Giorgio Napolitano, bestowed on Franca the honor of Grande Officiale dell'Ordine al Merito della Repubblica Italiana, which means that she was essentially knighted for her act of bravery. Amazing. Amazing. Huge hat tip to Yumi. I had never heard of Franco Viola until she mentioned her to me.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
I think she sent me an article a while back. So, yeah, I appreciate that. I think the whole world does now.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
I think she ran across something like an article on the Internet and sent it to me. So, yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Franca Viola
Yeah. And a huge hat tip to Franca Viola, too, for being so brave. It's just what an amazing story. Agreed. Chuck said agreed. Short Stuff is out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
And so, like you said, all the way back in the 17th century, people consider the first economic bubble to have surrounded tulips and tulip bulbs in Holland.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
No, that's what it's referred to, I'm sure, among economists, among historians, among the Dutch, among podcasters. It's called tulip mania. That wasn't just me being funny.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
Yeah. So tulips first arrived in Holland around 1600. The Dutch East India Company was moving spices and exotic goods from the east to Europe, Holland in particular. And tulips arrived. And for the first couple of decades, they were, you know, if you were a plant enthusiast, You probably had a tulip in your collection.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry sitting in for Dave and this is short stuff about tulip mania.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
If you were very, very rich and just wanted to show off how cutting edge you were, you might have some tulips in your garden. But they weren't a big deal until 1634. And the reason they became a big deal almost overnight was because those same upper classes and nobility in Holland decided that tulips were now a status symbol.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
And that if you didn't have tulips growing in your garden and you were a member of the aristocracy or nobility, you were a total loser with a capital L. That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
Yeah, that 50 to 150 grand, that was like day-to-day stuff. Right. That's what a single tulip bulb would go for. Single bulb. It was nuts. Even at the time, there were people who were watching this and they were like, this is crazy. They're tulips for God's sake.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
Right, exactly. I say we take a break and come back and talk some more about Tulip Mania.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
Yeah. It's where the price of a good or an asset or something like that, let's just say item. Sure. Goes sky high, way, way, way beyond any reasonable value that it should have. And it's because of exuberant trading. And the more exuberant the trading is, the more people get sucked in by it. And they want to make some money, too.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
Okay, Chuck, so we were just talking about how crazy expensive a single tulip bulb was in Holland in the 1630s. Single tulip bulbs. Right. So some people among the wealthy would use like significant portions of their fortune, of their wealth, to buy tulips and just grow them. They weren't reselling them. They weren't doing anything. They were buying tulips and growing them.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
They were spending half of their net worth to buy tulips just to show off, right? Yeah. At some point, people started saying, like, I think that if I start buying tulips and then selling them for a higher price, I could really make some money.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
And as a matter of fact, I can start speculating where I will go into futures contracts with people and say, hey, I'll sell you X number of tulips in three weeks for X number of dollars because I'm betting that the price is going to go down. You're betting that the price is going to go up. Let's see who wins. And speculation is one of the main drivers, essentially, of an economic bubble.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
Like it's crazy that the single bulbs are going for that. But once people started speculating and creating like instruments and futures contracts based on that crazy high price, that's when it really started to get troublesome. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
Yeah. The bubble burst because some people, like we said earlier, that there were some people who were like, this is crazy. And even some speculators and people who are invested in tulips were like, this is not going to last much longer. I'm going to get out. And as more people started to decide to get out, you can trigger a panic.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
And if you trigger a panic, all of a sudden the bubble bursts and the price just drops precipitously. And that's what happened with the tulip mania bubble. A bunch of people who had large stocks of tulip bulbs when the price dropped almost overnight were ruined financially.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
They had, say, hundreds of thousands of dollars with the tulips that they'd paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for that were now worth hundreds of dollars. And it was a bad jam for anybody who was caught with tulip bulbs when the bubble burst.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
Yeah, because, again, you're saying I will buy a thousand tulip bulbs in four weeks at, you know, a million dollars. And when the bubble burst and those tulip, the thousand bulbs were now worth a thousand dollars and you're on the hook to pay a million dollars for them. Yeah. Those speculators were like, I'm not I'm sorry, I'm not doing this. Or they can't.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
So more people start investing and the prices keep going higher and higher and higher. That's the first part of the bubble. There's another less happy side of the bubble, too.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
Yeah, they might not have been able to any longer. But the suppliers who had these tulip bulbs and were technically owed a million dollars, regardless of what the tulip bulbs were worth, they won their bet. But they still, the buyers would not pay the suppliers. And that's what really created this huge financial crisis. And it got bad enough.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
At first, the Dutch governments of the big cities and I think the monarchy did not get involved. They did not want to get involved. The courts were like, we're not going to hear any cases because these are bets as far as the law is concerned. And a bet isn't legally binding.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
But it was so bad, the Dutch economy was in such tatters because so many people had gotten into tulips, Chuck, that they just, like you said, tradespeople just sold their tools, people sold their houses. The regular economy that was built on that kind of work and stuff like that, it sagged. It was unmaintained during this tulip mania. So it was a big problem that the Dutch had.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
So finally, some of the higher-ups got involved and tried to figure this out.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
Yeah, that's what the Dutch government ultimately decided to do is nothing. And it just had to mend itself naturally as people got back to work and people sold their tulip bulbs for way less. But they did sell their tulip bulbs because the Dutch were still and are still kind of crazy for tulips. Oh, yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
I read that they still pay higher prices than other countries for tulip bulbs because people just know that the Dutch are crazy for tulips and they'll pay it. And I guess every about this time of year, every year, the Dutch countryside just explodes in color.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
I'm sure you can still find it. Thanks, man. Thanks for the recommendation.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tulipmania
Yeah, and beware economic bubbles. Yeah, that too. Short stuff is apt.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
So they could just have public sex and do mounds of cocaine and take tons of Quaaludes with virtually no consequences whatsoever.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
I guess so. You want to take a break? Should we take a break?
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
But later in life, I kind of developed an awareness of it. What do you think about all that?
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Okay, Chuck, so it's opening night, six weeks after they started construction on Tuesday, April 26, 1977, a.k.a. the most important date in the history of humanity, according to some of the people who were there. That hype that Carmen D'Alessio had been building up was really paying off.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
I was going to say the same thing. There's some shocking revelations about this stuff that anybody who knows about Studio 54 is probably like, yeah, that's just how it was. And on the outside, it's just nuts. It was just such a – they called it like the disco Sodom and Gomorrah. It was just a complete bacchanal of, like, just drugs and sex and, like, in the club. And it was just absolutely nuts.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Apparently, there was an hours-long wait already, and it was so long that Frank Sinatra and Warren Beatty were like, this is taking too long. I'm out of here. Warren Beatty.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Wow. Pretty nuts. Yeah. So this one of the other legends or stories about opening night is that wait was so long that they just basically broke out into a party on the sidewalk outside of the club. Thanks in large part to a doctor who came by with a bunch of quaaludes. Apparently, quaaludes went for like 10 cents a pop, and everybody had them at all times.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
And I was looking up what it was like to take leudes, as they were called. And apparently, there's not really any drug you can compare it to today. They were their own thing, and they were sedative, but they also had all sorts of other weird effects. I saw it described like you'd sit on a couch, and you weren't sitting on the couch. You were melting into the couch.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
But then at the same time, you were also super randy, and it made sex amazing, and you were just relaxed and ready to go along with whatever. And everybody loved lewds, and they were super plentiful. So when this doctor came along and handed out lewds, the pre-party broke out.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
I used to do a great Robin Leach. Let's hear it. No. In retrospect, it wasn't great at all. But at the time, I thought it was pretty great. I also did a good Bartles and James impression. And then my other one was Larry of Larry, Daryl, and Daryl from Newhart.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Remember the two guys who were like the spokesmen who were supposedly Bartles and James?
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
No, one of them didn't speak. The other one was the shorter, more rotund one with glasses. He spoke. I have no recollection of what he sounded like, but I would do those impressions.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
For Bartles and James. For Bartles and James. Wine coolers. That's pretty good. Yeah. It was of a moment, a specific moment in history.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Why are you so weird? Yeah, there you go. And it's not actually John Travolta. I'm doing Dana Carey doing John Travolta.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
But as you read about it, it's just the same themes over and over again. People had sex in the club. Everybody was doing coke in the club. Everybody was on Quaaludes. And Mick Jagger's wife, Bianca, was on a horse once. And it just kept getting like it all just kind of melded together. And I kind of felt like by the time I was done researching this, I get Studio 54.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah. I guess based on the name, Broadway Catering Corporation, they'd be like, oh, okay, here's your catering license to go cater this party at 254 West 54th Street. Yeah, the fact that they did it every day. Whose job was it to go by and get that permit every single day? That's just so crazy. Then I saw one time, apparently, whatever agency issued those got wise to it, and they denied them once.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
So at least one night, there was nothing but fruit juice and sodas, but guests were invited to drink as much of it as they liked for free.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Is it true that he approached them on the Monday that he wanted the party to be held?
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
So this was a really important deal. It was very smart of them to take his money and throw this party. This was the one where Bianca Jagger rode a white horse around, I guess in a circle, essentially, in the club. And then I'm sure somebody gave the horse some cocaine and everybody thought it was hilarious. But the reason that this was so important, by the way, was because—
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
The coverage of this party was, it just went everywhere. And this was like where the people who hadn't yet heard of Studio 54 heard of it. So Halston helped put this thing on the map with that party.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
But there was definitely a horse at her birthday party at Studio 54.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
So one of the other things, too, is you said, like, some of these parties would cost $50,000 to $100,000. I saw, like, even on non-party nights that were, like, reserved private parties, they would often spend tens to up to $100,000 just on, like, the themes and decorations and stuff, just for a regular night at Studio 54. Like, they were... Just pouring money into this.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
And they were getting even more out. I would be really interested to know what their return on investment was, because they just they put so much money into this place and they seem to have made buckets of it so much so that, as we'll see, they would keep the cash in garbage bags sometimes around the club.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah, but I think if you have enough to fill a garbage bag, by definition, that's a lot, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
I saw a picture of the two together. You can definitely tell Rubell's ready to party. He's wearing his famous padded coat, like his kind of down coat that he wore because he could hide tons and tons of coke in it. And then Ian Schrager is dressed like Ron Burgundy. I should say Ron Burgundy dressed like Ian Schrager, I guess, really. But, I mean, just that same foggy London town gentleman outfit.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Look with like the blazer and the turtleneck and all that. He looks cool for sure. But he also looks like, yeah, I could see him going home early.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
So, yeah. So you said that Rubel was the host so much so that sometimes he would stand out front and say who could come in and who couldn't. And he was doing that because he put it that he was casting a play. So like the characters that he would pick out would all kind of come together and gel in a certain way inside to to make the greatest possible party possible.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
from the greatest mix of people. And one of the really important things about that is you didn't have to be famous to get in to Studio 54. You could just be a cool disco club kid who had a cool look and was clearly a cool kid. And you could get in like just from being you essentially not having any connections whatsoever.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah. He said that it couldn't be too gay. It couldn't be too straight. It needed to be very, very, very bisexual. So that was a big part of the mix too. But yeah, it was like who would get along with who. And then the doorman kind of developed their own shorthand too.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Like if you looked like you were like a midnight cowboy type and you might go beat up some of the gay patrons inside, you weren't getting past the doorman. That was a big one right there. Like you said, it was a safe place. for gay and trans people that started at the door.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
I thought that was the documentary. I was going to say Steve Rubell is like the spitting image of Mike Myers, but now I got you.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
And also one of the other things too was Mark Benecke, again, 19 years old, the head doorman, he was the highest paid staff member in part, or I guess entirely, so that he wouldn't take bribes to let people in at the door.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Well, the thing is, is I was thinking about that. I'm like, well, yeah. I mean, can't you be like, I love this money and I want some more. So I'm going to take some bribes. But then you think about if he's making enough money that he would not want to lose that job, then it would keep him honest in and of itself. I think not just like he doesn't need the money. You know what I mean?
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Wait a minute, wait a minute. What was funny about that? Did I just explain the obvious? Is that what I was doing?
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Well, I was just looking for any flaws in that plan, and I actually found it was fairly foolproof. So I appreciated it and wanted to spotlight it here on Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
No, no. He wasn't super cool. Supposedly super nice, but also not super cool. Two other guys didn't get in, Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards, who at the time, they were in the group Chic. like Le Freak, C'est Chic, and that song in particular was actually inspired by Studio 54, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
And then they're like, guys, you can make so much more money with the song if you just change that to freak. And they're like, oh, okay. So they did. And it became like, I'm sure they played that song inside Studio 54 all the time.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Because one of the things that's worth mentioning, too, is as cool as this place was, like you would hear essentially all the same disco hits that you would hear on the radio. It was just, again, an 11,000 square foot dance floor with tons of cocaine on it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah. Did you see how or who was on the GN list then? Like, who did you have to tick off or what did you have to do to have your name – Like on a list that you were not allowed into Studio 54 no matter what. Like that wasn't just some schmo. Like this was somebody who was specifically targeted to not be allowed in.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Henry Winkler, yeah. So there was also just kind of a general rule. Like if somebody showed up looking like Disco Stu or just like a cartoonish version of a cool disco person, they probably weren't going to make it in either. And there was a story where I think Mark Benecke was not going to let this one dude in because he looked exactly like that. Then Steve Rubell was like, no, he can come in.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Wow. Wow. That's pretty great. So there was like a lot of desperation to get in, like you said, the damned looking in on paradise. Some people were like, I'm not going to be the damned any longer. I'm going to use this gun I have under my coat to make the doorman let me in. Um, I did not see that that was successful. I don't see how it would be. It wouldn't be like, oh, you've got a gun on me.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Sure. Go ahead. Go in with your gun. I don't know how that played out, but that's just kind of like the little thumbnail anecdotes that are completely surrounding studio 54. Um, there were some other ones too, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah, it is. It's just basically another example of an apologies. Like this is a pretty blanket statement, but the boomer generation being like, we did this and had so much fun and it's the coolest thing that could ever possibly happen.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Isn't that nuts? They didn't know that there was somebody in there until they started to smell the decomposition.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
So there's apparently, I didn't see it, a Netflix special on Halston, the designer, who figures big into this. Does a show, yeah. Yeah. And I guess that made it into it, too, but they changed the man to a woman for some reason.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Oh, yeah. Like when you didn't feel like just total butt like the next day afterward, you know. So, yeah, it used to be fun for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
So, yeah, it was a murderer's row, a who's who of 70s famous cool people who were there, apparently Divine, the very famous. Was Divine trans or was Divine considered a cross-dresser? Is that just what they called Divine back in the day before we called people trans? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Is Divine still with us? I don't think so. I don't think you can live that fast and hard and still be around this many years later. Yeah, that'd probably be a good episode, actually. Divine, for sure. Yeah. For those of you who don't know who Divine is, she was a star, almost a muse to John Waters and was in a bunch of John Waters movies and I think ate dog poop in one of them.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah, but the thing is, and Livia helps us with this, and I think she kind of captured it. The reason it seems like that Studio 54 is still just so prominent in just the general cultural consciousness, especially in America, is because it was short lived. It ended at its peak. So it didn't stick around long enough to like really like become passe. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
But, yeah, we'll do an episode on Divine even though we just gave away the twist.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Andy Warhol was a big one there. In fact, he brought his whole factory crew and loved Studio 54 so much that he basically was like he sicked the entire staff of Interview Magazine on it and started basically covering Studio 54 relentlessly in his magazine.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
He seems to have been about as regular as any of them. Grace Jones was a big one too. I don't know if she was super into that circle. She seems to have been kind of a lone wolf in a lot of ways. But one of the doormen said that she arrived naked so many times it became boring. I can totally see that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
That would be the big thing. There was also a woman named Disco Sally, right, who just was a legend. She also appeared in that Halston, or not documentary, but that Halston miniseries. But I think they kind of didn't do her justice from what I read.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah, I think we left out a really key thing. She was 77. And looked like 1970s 77. So she looked like 110. She did. And she would dance all night. She was called Disco Sally for a reason. Like she would get there and she would just start dancing for hours. And apparently she would stop to go pee and to do some coke and then would get right back out on the dance floor.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
And she became actually from her stint at Studio 54 a fixture on the New York nightlife scene for a long time to come.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
No, for sure. And, you know, like probably some bad stuff is happening to them, too, let alone just being scared.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah, Valentino did. And then they had like Halloween apparently was like the big night where just if you were a normal person and you had a really great costume, there was a good chance you were going to get in. The better the costume, the better your chances. And like one year they did a Hieronymus Bosch theme, which would have just been awesome. And I think that kind of shows like –
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
just kind of the coolness of the people involved. Like, you know, they didn't go with something trendy. They went with, like, a really dark, bizarre, weird, like, painter. Hieronymus Bosch's stuff is really cool. And I didn't see what all they did with it, but from what I read about it, it seems like it was pretty bizarre. So pretty cool Halloween party, if you ask me.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
And in the very short, like bursting lifespan that it had less than three years, like 33 months, I think it was just it was the coolest of the cool. And when you put all that together, that's how 50 years later, people like us are doing a podcast on it still. You know what I mean? About a club. Yeah. A club. That's what we're doing a podcast on.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah. Yumi and I walked all over New York once from basically Wall Street over to Greenpoint and just spent the whole day doing that. And it just had, like, such a totally different vibe than it normally does. It was a cool, cool day. When was this? Oh, 2010 maybe, something like that, because she went as a Snuggie, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah, that's what they called basically anybody who wasn't famous, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Oh, I get it now. What about the end? Because, again, this thing was like a bright, shining, meteoric star that lasted less than three years. And it went down hard, too. Like, it wasn't like a, eh, this has been fun. Let's shut the thing down. Like, the government came in and said, you're going to shut the thing down, essentially. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
So in 1978, December 1978, the place got raided, apparently with 30 agents. That's a big raid. And I guess as they were searching the place, Schrager showed up and was like, hey, what's going on, everybody? And he was carrying with him their cooked books. Yeah. Or I guess the uncooked books, which is even worse, that in detail, meticulously detailed all the money they were stealing.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
And one of the other things that it showed is that all the cocaine – because, like, they weren't selling cocaine necessarily. I'm sure, like, if you were a nobody who got in, they weren't just giving you free cocaine. You could buy it. But if you were, like, a celeb or somebody they wanted to keep happy, they gave you as much free cocaine as you possibly wanted. Yeah. And they would expense that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah. Well, the cocaine they bought, they expensed it whenever they actually did pay taxes. So all of this was basically being carried in by Schrager. And then as a little cherry on top, on top of the pile, there were five ounces of cocaine. So he walks in with 30 IRS agents raiding the place with that on him. And they're like, why don't you put that down and come over here?
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
One of 8,000 disco clubs that were open between 1974 and 1976 alone. That's how important this club was to that scene.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
There was one little point that I thought was kind of sad. During this raid, the IRS agents supposedly found a room. There were a lot of like secret rooms, like VIP rooms. But this one was so secret and so VIP that according to Andy Warhol, Halston hadn't even been told about it. And when he found out about it, it hurt his feelings. And I'm with him. I can totally understand that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
He dropped so much cash there. And then don't forget that first birthday party that they hosted that he threw for Bianca Jagger. Put Studio 54 on the map. And they didn't tell him about the most secret room. I feel bad for Halston.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah, if anybody should have, sure. Even Liza? I don't know. Definitely Halston, though. All right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah, I could see that. So the last, they closed down, you said the club kept going, but at least for this moment, it closed down on February 4th, 1980 with a sayonara party, farewell party. When, yeah, I think that's what they call them. When they sent Schrager and Rubel off to prison. So they just burned the place down basically one more night. And those two, they each served a year.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
And after they got out, I guess they were in touch in prison and they decided to get into the hotel business. And they started the boutique hotel trend, apparently, starting in 1984 with a hotel they opened as Morgan's.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
I feel like it's time for boutique hotels to be reinvented as something else, don't you?
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
No, they've become very formulaic. I mean, like, funky art in the rooms that are supposed to kind of feel like your house but just remind you that you're not home. Sometimes there's record players. There's, like, a super cool bar where people not staying at the hotel come, usually on the rooftop. And then there's the invariable...
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
restaurant, the house restaurant that is new American cuisine every single time, all of the same stuff on the menus. And we're talking boutique hotels in totally different cities with totally different owners. And everything's outfitted in like copper fixtures. Yeah, copper. You know what I'm talking about.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah, it's a formula now. I mean, it's been around for 40 years. I think we need something new.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
No, I'm the kind of person right now that has no ideas, just criticism.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah, it really was. Ian Schrager just kind of he had this thing hanging over him, this felony conviction. Even when they opened the Palladium, they couldn't be owners on paper because they weren't allowed to hold a liquor license. And in 2017, he was pardoned by President Obama. And I think one of his last days for the tax evasion conviction. And that meant a lot to Ian Schrager.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
I read an interview with him from after that. And he seemed to like really appreciate that. And he seemed to have kind of been the kind of guy who maybe deserved a pardon all this time later.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Well, that means, of course, everybody, since neither one of us have anything else, and it's time for listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
I wonder if this is what the sitcom She's the Sheriff was based on.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Thanks a lot, Sean, from Louisville. That was a great email. I definitely not heard that. Yeah. So thanks a lot. We love addendums and cool emails, especially when they're combined. And if you want to send us a cool email, you can send it off to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Group of people. Yeah. OK, good. I'm glad that we pretty much arrived at the same place. And also, I find it comforting that I'm following the longstanding trend of agreeing with Emily.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Exactly. For sure. But let's talk about what a cool party that was.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah, apparently they became like friends for life. Ian Schrager said that after they met and became friends, he thinks that he and Steve Rubell spoke every day for the rest of Steve Rubell's life. And Ian Schrager also put it that because they were from Brooklyn...
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
They had something to prove, especially, you know, going to Syracuse with probably some wealthier kids and then coming from working class families. I'm not going to say they had a chip on their shoulder, but they were like they were hustlers. They were ambitious.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
They were going to make a life for themselves rather than, you know, just end up joining their dad's firms because their dads didn't have a firm. One was a postman and the other one was named Max the Jew who ran illegal gambling operations. So that kind of drive. And then also just the creativity that those two guys had together. And then also just the connection that they had.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
This was a genuine partnership that this came out of. It just kind of, I think, inserted a little electricity that otherwise wouldn't have been there.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
No, they were called steak lofts, right? Like loft.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Wow. Not a bad deal. Yeah, no, that is a pretty good deal. I'm kind of hungry for it now.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Yeah, the one in Queens is the more important one. They actually gave up their share in the one in Boston so that they could get full ownership of the Queens one called Enchanted Garden. And it was kind of like the original template for what would become Studio 54. They would throw like theme parties where everybody would dress up and they would decorate it along with the theme.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Like it was way more than just some club. And it's like, look at the mirrors on the wall and the disco ball up there. Like this was there was theatrics to it, too. And so the other big thing that happened at Enchanted Garden is that they met a man named Jack Dushy or Dushy. Let's go with Dushy. Oh, I thought it was Dushay. Is it Dushy? D-U-S-H-E-Y. Dushy is definitely a pronunciation of that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Well, let's agree it's definitely not douchey, okay? His name was Jack D., and he owned a store in Brooklyn, I think a discount store, and was fairly wealthy. And he threw either, depending on who you ask, his daughter's bat mitzvah or his son's bar mitzvah at Enchanted Garden. And I guess liked the cut of Steve and Ian's jib and went into business with them as a silent partner.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
And he gave them the influx of cash that they needed to start Studio 54.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Wow. Yeah, they formed a company called Broadway Catering Corporation, which will make a little more sense in a little while. And they leased that building at 254 West 54th Street, and they got to work on turning it into a club. They did it in six weeks. They went from nothing to ready for people to come in six weeks without a construction license, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Boogie Down Josh, and there's Disco Stu Chuck. And it's just the two of us because Diana Ross Jerry is not here right now.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
No, they had a lot to work with, in other words. So they hired one guy, a guy named Richard Long, who actually was the sole veteran of the club scene of like setting up clubs. He had set up the sound systems for most of the gay discos in New York. So he knew what he was doing. And that certainly came in handy because, I mean, one of the main things of Studio 54 was the music, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Like in the dancing to the music. So to have a pro creating the sound system was a big one. And then you also cannot overlook the role that Carmen D'Alessio did. She was a PR sorceress, I saw her described as. And her role essentially was to basically go around to New York's Glitterati and
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Right. There was also just a little bit more about the club, right? I see that it had 85-foot ceilings. Is that right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Okay. Well, I just want to make sure because my brain starts to boggle like 30 feet up.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
Right. I got that. I still don't think I've ever been in a theater that was 85 feet up to the ceiling. Maybe.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
It is a little surprising, isn't it? But I hadn't heard of Studio 54 until you picked this, so I don't know how that would have been possible. It's funny. I'm just kidding. I have. I've heard of it. I'm cool, man. I'm hip. Even though I guess I was one year old to three years old when it was open. So as it was going on, I wasn't aware of it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
I'm a bad judge of height and distance and all that, too. But so I guess it makes sense then that it could hold a capacity of 2000 people because when they ran out of room on the floor, they just start stacking them on top of one another.
Stuff You Should Know
The Filthy Magic of Studio 54
I mean, it was gross. At one point, they retrofitted the second floor balcony, I guess the whole area around it with wash-off rubber coating. gross. It is gross. The whole thing's gross. Yes, and it was fairly gross, but I saw it described as this. These people were living in the age after the invention of the pill before the onset of AIDS.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
And it also basically laid the foundation for exclusionary immigration laws and much tighter immigration laws than we'd had before that we still have today. But this was super tight. I read when they loosened it up, the quota for Chinese immigrants was 104 Chinese immigrants per year. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah. And everybody was racist against Chinese at the time, right? Yeah. But people also loved chop suey by then. I mean, loved chop suey. So Lim Sen's lawsuit said, hey, you can keep loving chop suey. I invented this in America. It's really an American dish. So you can continue being racist against Chinese immigrants while still loving chop suey. You're welcome, America.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah, and the lawsuit, I think he said it too. I couldn't find that quote. I couldn't find the lawsuit. But even if it's not specifically in the lawsuit, it definitely seems to have developed out of that.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
I don't know either. There's a lot of overlap between Chinese dishes, including authentic cuisine, but especially American Chinese. I think it was one of the first. It was almost like an umbrella term for all Chinese dishes in America at the turn of the last century, kind of like Smurf, but with Chinese food, essentially.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
And I think because it was the first, a lot of dishes that we recognize as American Chinese developed out of it.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah. No, I mean, that's definitely better than, you know, a human finger that you found.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah. But I mean, that's a great explanation of just how crazy people were in America for chop suey. That Le Choy could package and sell for decades this stuff and people were nuts for it. Another sign apparently was that by the turn of the last century, chop suey houses were so popular they'd started to migrate out of Chinatown. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
That was great. Caveat City right there. Caveat City. David Bowie, great song. So you said something that we're going to largely focus on American Chinese cuisine. And Laura helped us with this, and she makes a really good point. The Chinese food is not just one thing. Yeah. And the reason why it's not just one thing or one of the reasons why is because it's been exported all over the globe.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Which was a huge deal in, I should say, in Manhattan specifically. That was a big deal because I think there were a lot of people who were like, I'd love chop suey, but I don't want to go to Chinatown. And these Chinese entrepreneurs said, hey, you don't need to anymore. Here we are at, I don't know, Soho.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah. We want a hot dog, a hamburger, and chop suey. Exactly. Yeah. You want to take a break? We're at like 20 minutes, basically. Yeah. I'm going to go ahead and put in my order for pork fried rice and egg roll. I'm definitely getting Chinese food for dinner. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
All right, Chuck, so we're back. And we talked about how immigration laws and racism against Chinese migrants helped shape Chinese food in America. And one of the first ways that it did was that 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act actually led to a plethora of much more upscale Chinese restaurants.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Anywhere that Chinese people traveled, usually for work to immigrate, they brought their food with them and introduced it to wherever they were. And then over time, the local flavors and tastes and ingredients from that place melded with the Chinese food and a new type of Chinese food was born. And America is no exception to that. So we have American Chinese food.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
And the reason why is because part of that Exclusion Act is that certain kinds of businesses could achieve merchant status or the owners of certain kind of businesses. They had to be legitimate businesses that were considered kind of higher end. And that if you had merchant status, you could sponsor relatives to come to the United States.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
And I guess in 1915, a court case got Chinese restaurants added to that merchant status clause.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah, so the first like third of the 20th century, there was a boom in Chinese restaurants and specifically higher end Chinese restaurants. And then another boom happened after the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, which greatly loosened restrictions on immigration, particularly from China. And within a decade of that act, the Chinese American population basically doubled.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Which sounds eye-popping, but don't forget, there was only like 104 people coming in a year. So it went from like, I don't know, 3,000 to 6,000 in a decade.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah, it definitely was. But the point is that now you had way more patrons of authentic Chinese restaurants, which meant there were more authentic Chinese restaurants. And then you also had more people who were ready to open and staff more Chinese restaurants. So you had a huge boom in Chinese restaurants again in the 60s. the 70s.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah. And Chuck, you mentioned at least in 2014, 40,000 Chinese restaurants in the United States.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Which is impressive in and of itself. But if you compare it to McDonald's, which is, you know, the benchmark comparison for us. Yeah. There are 13,622 McDonald's in the United States versus 40,000 Chinese restaurants. Wow.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah, a lot of the reason you won't notice is because the immigrants from Fujian, I could not find out why the largest waves of migration lately have been coming from Fujian, but they are. But they are coming and buying Cantonese food. formerly Cantonese owned restaurants from the Cantonese owners who founded them.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
And they're just keeping the menu the same because again, this is American Chinese. Neither one's making the cuisine necessarily that you would find in their provinces. In China, they're making the American version. So if you have a set menu, you're probably, any chef's going to be able to cook this stuff, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
It's good. It's a Swedish sour. No, it's not even sour. It's like sweet and savory. It's kind of spicy too, isn't it? A little bit, but nothing anybody couldn't handle. I think there's usually sesame seeds on it too. It's good stuff. Yeah. Not like Kung Pao is the real spicy one, right? Yeah. And we all know who likes his Kung Pao spicy.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah, it is pretty funny, for sure, unless you're in a rush, because then you have to ask the question twice.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
I mean, dads can be pretty embarrassing. Except for this one. Yeah. Well, not you, of course. All right. So what are the origins of General Tso's chicken? Actually, Chuck, there was a guy named Pen Chang Wei, K-U-E-I. He was from Hunan and he was living in Taiwan at the time as part of the nationalist government.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
He was a chef for the nationalist government who was being visited in Taiwan by the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff. So we created a special dish that in no way resembles what we think of General Tso's chicken today. It was a very heavy dish, sour, hot, salty. It was just not American. It wasn't fried. But this dish was named after an actual real Hunanese general from the Qing Dynasty.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
His name was Zhou Zongtang or Zhou Zongtang. And you get General Zhou from that. I think he was an administrator of Taiwan for a little while. It made sense to Peng. And eventually it got exported to the United States, I think in the 70s, and it just got totally transformed.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
I didn't know that either, but that doesn't sound totally foreign to me. Well, it sounds a little foreign. You know what I mean. I feel like I've heard that before somewhere.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Nice. That was a great joke. Thank you. So back in 2023, Grubhub did say that there are two cities where a Chinese dish made the top 10, Crab Rangoon. And hold your emails because we know crab rangoon is actually not a Chinese dish at all, but it is found in just about every American Chinese food place.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
It was invented by an American, the restaurateur Victor Bergeron, who was a Polynesian-themed chain, Trader Vic's. Named after a city in Burma, also known as Myanmar. And it has cream cheese, which is as American as chop suey.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah, it sounds like something we would try for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
What else? Oh, hey, there's another reason that some Chinese food became Americanized.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah, and I was like, where's broccoli from? Turns out the Mediterranean. Okay. It was, according to legend, brought to America by Thomas Jefferson, who grew it experimentally in his garden. So he liked to fart? Yep. He said, this is going to make me blow. And then it took off in popularity in the U.S. in the 1920s. Didn't see why, but it did. Believe me.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Very nice. Yeah, that's what I grew up on, too. It wasn't until I was an adult that I was like, there's other kinds of Asian food out there?
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
I don't remember specifically talking about him or his name, but there's no way we didn't talk about him in our fortune cookie short stuff from 2022.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
I believe it for sure. It's pretty great. And then we got to talk about a couple of regional specialties. St. Louis, I remember when we went there. When we get back to touring again, I really want to go to St. Louis. Everyone there was crazy nice. Yep. They had really cool, like, regional foods that you couldn't find anywhere else, like good stuff. Oh, yeah. It's just a good town.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
I want to go back. But I also want to try the St. Paul sandwich there. It's egg foo young, but a sandwich.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
So you've got an omelet with vegetables, a meat or seafood topped with brown gravy on a sandwich. So you've got mayo, pickle, lettuce, all that stuff. It sounds just totally off the chain, and I really want to try it.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
It looks like Cousin It wearing his hat. Yeah. Actually, a little derby hamburger bun hat. Yeah, it's ostentatious to say the least, for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Even still, as a kid, the Mexican food I was exposed to was chi-chis, for God's sake. Or Del Taco. We didn't even have that. That was exotic. But I think maybe even before Chinese food, I was exposed to Japanese hibachi because there was this nice restaurant in Toledo called N Japanese. And we would go to that. And I think I might have had that before Chinese food. But regardless...
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah, it's good. I mean, especially for compared to typical, I would not call it a high-end chain, no more than you'd call Cheesecake Factory a high-end chain. Well. It's virtually on the same level of dining. I'm not taking a shot at it. I'm just saying it's not like the place that you went to in Vegas or Peking Duck in, I think, Falls Church, Virginia, which is an amazing spot.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
It's just like you can go to a mall and there might be one attached to it if it's a nice mall. Regardless, it is tasty, especially compared to like Chinese takeout. It's definitely several steps up from that. OK, I got you. It's just really hard to like what high end restaurant has 300 locations. Now, like when you have 300 locations, you're starting to work in economies of scale.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
It's really tough to keep like any kind of cuisine, just top notch in that sense.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Those two could not be any greater American treasures. Yeah, it's pretty great. I love those guys.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
If you believe that. Actually, no, I don't. It's true. That is a little surprising, but I mean, it's not like I'm hating on Cheesecake Factory. I've never been. Oh, they have a really varied menu. Yeah, the portions are gigantic, and their cheesecakes are pretty great.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Um, I love Chinese food too. I would say my top two are Japanese followed by Indian, but Chinese is definitely up there in top five or so.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah, Philip F. Chang, but he dropped the I. Exactly. So P.F. Chang's, pretty large chain, 300 restaurants. It's definitely nothing to sneeze at. But if you really want to talk economy of scales, let's talk Panda Express. They have 2,000 more restaurants than P.F. Chang's does, 2,300 in the United States. Right. Yeah. Food court city. But yeah. Have you had Panda Express?
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah, a couple of times. And yeah, it is fast food. And it's great for fast food. It's just different. It's not Taco Bell or McDonald's or even like Chipotle or something. It's just the Chinese version of fast food.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
And if you're a fan of orange chicken, you can thank your friends at Panda Express because they debuted it in 1987. And now you can find it basically everywhere. But they were the ones who came up with it.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
I'm trying some Hunan tonight because I don't normally eat that and I want to see what it's like. But typically a garlic chicken of some sort. I like savory brown sauces, umami brown sauces, usually chicken. If I'm really feeling crazy, maybe like a happy family or something like that. Are you white rice or fried rice? White steamed rice. Mmm, boy, I gotta have that fried rice. Oh, yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
There's too many peas in fried rice, and peas are one of my most hated things on the entire planet.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah. That didn't strike me until you just said that too. And although my voice doesn't, um, betray that I'm definitely scared right now as well. All right. You know, Hey, let's do, let's do a shorty on egg rolls. Maybe we'll pair it with this. Good idea. All right. So we said that Chinese food is not just one thing because it's been exported globally.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
So America's not the only place that took Chinese food and said, here, eat this orange and squeezed it together and then fried it. That's, like I said at the outset, it's happened all over the world. And apparently, I'm not on TikTok much, as in ever, But there was a thing on TikTok a couple of years ago where American people picked up on UK, British, Chinese food.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah, which everybody loves. Even if you don't eat chicken, you'll eat that.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Man, so poor chicken meat has been like subjected to so many different indignities over the years. I know. More than any other meat.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
So India also has a version of Chinese food that's so popular that some Indian restaurants in the U.S., I've not seen this, but they'll sometimes have dishes there called Manchurian something or other. Yeah, I didn't know that either. I didn't either. I've never run across that.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
And then in some cities, if the city's big enough, they might have like full on Indian Chinese restaurants there where it's the Indian version of Chinese, just like if you had an American version of the Chinese food in India. Yeah. There's probably some sort of cultural exchange like they open one here. We have to open one there. It's got to be balanced. It's contractual.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
But even in China, Chinese food is not just one thing. And they divide Chinese cuisine into eight different regions. Why don't you tell them what the regions are, Chuck?
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah. I want to try all of these. I do too. And then apparently also South Africa has Afro-Cantonese. And that was, again, developed out of a Chinese community that were brought there as indentured workers all the way back in the 19th century, basically just like America.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
But and also just like America, as more and more Chinese immigrants have come higher end, more Chinese authentic dishes have kind of become more favorited than just the Afro-Cantonese version.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah. Yeah. Again, I said it said it before and I'll say it again. I really want some Chinese food right now.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Are you doing it for lunch? I'm going to make myself wait until dinner and really titillate myself.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Well, if we do Cajun food, we have to consult our good friend and friend of the show, Doug Chachere.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Oh, that's right. Doug. Yeah, when he brought us a boudin balls at our New Orleans show and we ate them on stage.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Oh, he's wonderful. So, yeah. Plus, his last name is Shashary, so he knows what he's talking about with Cajun food.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Well, since we talked about our friend Doug Shashary here on the episode, as was predicted back in 2008. By the way, Chuck, today's the 17th anniversary of Stuff You Should Know. Today? Yeah, happy anniversary, baby. Wow, happy anniversary, love. Okay, well, anyway, on to it. As was predicted back in 2008, since we said Doug Chachere's name, we've unlocked listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah, we don't do that kind of stuff, you know? I mean, we don't do media tours or anything and say, look at us, everybody, look at us, you know? We do that every week anyway.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
I've seen that on the internet here or there since we released it. But, I mean, honestly, Chuck, we used a lot of different sources for that. Yeah. I mean, yes, you can make a case that it was exaggerated, but the idea that it's a myth, I did not run across that. Yeah. Who knows? And if it was, then I feel a lot of dismay that we released an episode where we were catfished by history.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
We'll have to get to the bottom of it. Who wrote that? Richard. Thanks a lot, Richard. We appreciate that. Thank you for sending us straight publicly. And if you want to be like Richard and set us straight publicly, you can send us an email, too. Send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
I mean, you're braver than me. I was just going to say the first ones that they're mostly known by in the U.S. Oh, we can do that then. That's much easier.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
I've always heard it as Foo-gee-on, but that sounds kind of like an American version.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yes. And some people added at least a ninth one with Shanji. And they're all a little different. They bear a lot of similarities. A lot of them love sweet and sour. A lot of them are heavy on the salt or umami. Some like sauces, but... One of the big differences or some of the big differences is like where this area is located. Some of them are coastal, so they incorporate a lot of seafood.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Some of them are colder, so there's like a lot of soups and heavy noodles and like really, really heavy flavors. Mm-hmm. And then others are like, hey, we love prancing around the wilderness and catching deer. So they incorporate like local wildlife into it.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
And usually what I've seen is when there's a lot of wildlife involved or game involved in the recipes, they tend to let that flavor stand on its own. It's not like heavy with sauces. That kind of cuisine isn't.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah. The little red chilies, they'll sometimes serve whole with the dish. Yes, I can handle those too.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah. And what I mean by handling those little red chili peppers is that I eat around them. Same here. So the cuisine that most people in the United States are familiar with is Cantonese. That's definitely like the first kind of Chinese food that Americans adopted. And that has a lot to do with the first wave of migrants that came over to the United States. A lot of them were from Canton.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
And as a matter of fact, the first Chinese restaurant to open in all of North America, I'm including Canada and Mexico here, was called Canton, and it was in San Francisco.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and it's just us, but that's okay because we can keep all the Chinese food to ourselves. I don't have to share with Jerry, and this is Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
You and the egg rolls, huh? Wait, wait, we can't talk about that. We have to save it for short stuff. Forget I even said that.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah. And there's a book that is going to come up or we're going to draw from a lot in this episode. It's called From Canton Restaurant to Panda Express. A History of Chinese Food in the United States by Haiming Leo. And Leo makes this point that a lot of, like we tend to equate Chinese migrants in the 19th century, especially to California with like railroad workers, maybe miners.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
We have like a certain idea of what the Chinese migrants were at the time. And that is a, I mean, it's pretty stereotypical. It's also pretty narrow. There were a lot of Chinese migrants who made their way over. Just to feed the people in the gold rush of 1849 in California. They were like, people are going to need food, and we're going to knock their socks off with Chinese food.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
And so they started to go and open Chinese restaurants. And apparently, you could pick out a Chinese restaurant pretty easily because they hung yellow flags outside.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah, for sure. And it's interesting because, and we'll talk about immigration and racism, but those two things definitely shaped Chinese food in America in some surprising ways, as a matter of fact.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
So it turns out that the oldest continuously operating Chinese restaurant in the United States is Peking, without a G, Noodle Parlor, in where else? Butte, Montana. Yeah. Right. And it started out as a general store back in 1909. But within two years, they added a noodle parlor, the very same noodle parlor that's still open today.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
And I guess at some point they ran an illegal gambling parlor out of the basement. But that has since been turned into an Old Navy.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah. I don't know if I've ever had it either, but I think anytime you've ever made like a vague Chinese stir fry with chicken and vegetables and maybe like some sort of thickish sauce, you basically made chop suey. Some people say that you can make it with egg, but those people are wrong. Yeah. For the most part, it's a mixture of meat, vegetables, a thick sauce, usually with rice.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
And the name itself, not only where it originated, but the name itself is debatable what it means. I remember, I think I might have learned this from Uncle John's bathroom reader, that it meant leftovers in Chinese so that people from China coming to America would see chop suey house and they would think it would say like leftovers house to them. That's not exactly true, but it's not that far off.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah. Liao, the author of the book, said that it probably comes from chow chop suey or chow chop suey, which some people call it. Probably comes from the Cantonese pronouncing a Mandarin chow zazooey. Chow meaning stir fry and zazooey meaning animal intestines. I tend to go with the sapsooey.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
I mean, that's just my take, and it's almost meaningless, but that's what I'm going to go with since it's up for debate. I'm with you.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Okay, that's fair enough. They probably will anyway if we end up in a camp together. That's true.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah, or else the Russians have invaded a la Red Dawn, and you and I are alone in a men's camp, which is really just a fenced-off drive-in.
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
Yeah. It's kind of a bold lawsuit. I love it. Sure. I don't even know who he sued. I couldn't find it. Everybody. I guess so. Lem Sen versus all chop suey chefs. Yeah, exactly. So he ended up dropping the suit, but the suit left a huge mark on America. I mean, like it was reported on. It made the news for sure. And people knew about it. And one reason why...
Stuff You Should Know
Chinese Food: Best Food?
It became such a big deal is because at the time, as we saw, there was the Chinese Exclusion Act. So Lim Sen brought his lawsuit in 1904. The Chinese Exclusion Act was passed in 1882. It was the first time the United States had ever passed an immigration law specifically targeted at one nationality. Mm-hmm.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
For sure. And then some people, because it's actually kind of counterintuitive, you think if you've gone through the school of hard knocks, I think is the way that the study put it. Yeah. You would think that they'd come out like much more world wary and like suspicious of people. And so they'd be less likely to fall for a scam.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
But no, instead, like you said, they just they question their own judgment for having gone through what they went through.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
It's a wonder any of us can function in any, like, real way.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yep. I mean, I can't imagine. Like, that's got to just keep you up at night sometimes if you think about it too much, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yes. Another one that really stood out to me, though, that this I would not have predicted is the more cynical you are, studies have found that the likelier you are to be gullible or duped. And the reason why actually makes tons of sense. Again, if you're cynical, you think you've got everything figured out.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
You think the world sucks and everybody's trying to take advantage of you and the government's constantly screwing you over. And everyone's going to try to get an angle on you. That's cynicism, right? At least in the modern sense. And it's actually a lazy shortcut to experiencing reality because on the one hand, you lose out in opportunity costs. So you miss a lot of great stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Like you might not make friends that you could have made because you were suspicious of this stranger chatting you up at the outset or something like that. But as far as gullibility goes, if somebody comes along and talks to you in your language, they can pull one over on you much more easily because they are tapping into your cynicism, which again is just lazy shorthand for experiencing reality.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
It's based largely on intuition and supposition and not necessarily taking each experience and looking at it based on the facts as a unique thing. It all has this one cast to it that's the same, and that's just not how the world actually works.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
For sure. And then conversely, too, not being cynical requires way more brainpower and thought and just participation than being cynical does. Like you have to actually like ask yourself, like, is this true? What kind of source is this coming from? I might need to go do some research. I might need to ask people. It's just so much easier to be like, nope, they're screwing me over.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
I don't even need to bother to look into that. Because you're also defending yourself at the same time from getting taken advantage of. Again, until somebody comes along and is talking your language and then you will oftentimes fall for whatever they're saying.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
You do. I heard that there's a really bad norovirus going around, and that's got to be what you got, man.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Oh, that's true. I forgot you got that. Yeah. Well, there's still a norovirus going around, so don't catch that, too.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah, think about how good you have to be to purposefully lose at golf.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Well, I take that one back. And on accident. So, yes, but on the contrary, if you are upset, if you're sad, if you're depressed, if you're mad, if you're in a low mood, you are actually more likely to pay attention to granular things. I think it actually kind of ties into rumination. You're just thinking about stuff. You're turned inward.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
So if somebody comes along and tries to sell you something.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
It's going to be harder to slip it past you because you're paying attention more than somebody who's like, yeah, whatever. Let's have another round.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Right. Yeah. So it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy that they are less likely to be scammed because they're so vigilant. That's amazing to me. Yeah. So there was this one study that kind of backed all this up from the University of Toronto. And they found they looked at adults 60 to 90 who handled their own finances. They didn't have any diagnosed cognitive issues.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
There's no way. Well, Chuck, I guess it's entirely possible since I haven't seen you. I've just, you know, been talking to you while we record. I have no idea whether you're actually sick or not. And it's entirely possible that you're fooling me right now. And if you are, I would argue that doesn't make me gullible because I generally believe you're trustworthy.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
And they found that people who had reported being victims of a fraud, there was nothing that really happened or there was no characteristic demographically, anything like that, that made them different from anybody else. The only thing that seemed to really kind of stick out was that the people who had been scammed before had low conscientiousness, one of the big five. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
They were less honest, humble, which is another kind of personality trait from a different scale. And from what I could see, the honesty thing means they explained it like if you are low on honesty, you're more likely to – Try something that might be a scam because you might get rich quick or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
You're more willing to take a shortcut, say, than somebody who would score higher on honesty, which puts you at greater risk. But that was about it. There wasn't like, you know, the older you get or the less educated you are in this group, you're more likely to get scammed. It was some other stuff entirely. But...
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
They found also that people who do experience cognitive decline do tend to get taken advantage of more, which is really messed up and sad, but it's true. And as a matter of fact, they've started to – some people have started to push this idea like if you fall for a scam, you should immediately be tested for –
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Alzheimer's or dementia, because there's a high correlation with getting scammed as an older person and the early, early developments of cognitive decline. It's got to feel terrible. I mean, it's bad enough to feel like you're getting scammed, but then to stop and be like, well, is this it for me in my mind?
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
We should do an episode on that sometime because I just don't I don't I mean, I get it, but I don't understand like where it started or anything like that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah, I thought he was, isn't he like the Dolphins quarterback now?
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Have you heard about the lonesome loser? He still keeps on trying.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
There's no reason to believe that you're not sick. So really, you'd just be a shameful, dirty liar. And I would be the hero in this situation. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
And then another thing about being online to the Better Business Bureau back in 2015, I think they looked at a, I guess a bunch of their like scam complaints that came in just to see who reported them. And they found that people between 25 and 35 were,
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
were more likely to lose money on a scam than older people, which is totally contrary to what people think of when they think of people who get scammed. And one of the explanations that they came up with is, in part, younger people are just online more.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
So they're just more likely by the numbers to have scams presented to them, which means that they're more likely to probably go for a scam than, say, people who are online less, right? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
I thought they all had like flip phones that only dial numbers.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Well, then that makes it even less understandable that 25 to 35-year-olds would be more likely to be scammed. I don't know. Maybe that generation is just more trusting these days or something like that. Actually, I got to take that back because as we'll see, being trusting is not necessarily correlated with being gullible.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah, another aspect is, like you said, people in science typically know a tremendous amount about their field, but they can make a mistake and think that that understanding, that depth of understanding, will just apply to other fields as well that they just don't know as much about. And that's another way they can fall prey to it. But also scientists like to be right as much as anybody else.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
And, you know, I don't remember what episode we did this in. I think it was about the just reproducibility crisis in science papers, if I remember correctly. But just how like the scientists don't set up experiments to disprove their hypothesis. They set them up to prove their hypothesis. That's how you get published. That's how you get celebrated.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Like nobody wants to hear about you failing, even though that's what science is meant to be. That's a part of it as well, just wanting to be right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
So if somebody comes along and is like, yep, you're right, let's use that to explain this other thing that's actually not true, the scientists might go along with it because if it is true, then it will prove their hypothesis and make them very famous and they'll probably end up having an HBO movie made about them.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Maybe. But, I mean, we definitely talked about papers just being, some of them just being outright fraudulent because their experiments are set up incorrectly. It could have been scientific method.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
I thought that was so her line where she tells Bill Murray that she won't dance with him. It was a little out of nowhere.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah, I get that. A little harsh, I think, is what I'm trying to say.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
All right. Wait, Lucy Liu doesn't or does want to dance with Bill Murray?
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Wait, I just, before we go to a break, I was saying I would like to dance with Bill Murray. Oh, yeah. Okay, I just want to make sure that no one walks away to this ad break thinking that I don't want to dance with Bill Murray.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
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Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
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Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah, interestingly, yes, science can be gullible. On the other hand, you could argue that Americans aren't more gullible than usual, that there's actually just different factors involved that make people want to believe things. Maybe. It's weird. I think one of the reasons why it's so hard to wrap our head around is social psychologists are still trying to wrap their head around it. Totally.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Okay, we're back, everybody. And I mentioned before that trust is not necessarily correlated with gullibility. And I love that. That just makes me feel good about the world again.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah. And so we'll kind of explain why. But there have been study after study after study that basically say, yeah, that's actually true. Like you can have a high level of trust, be tested for that kind of thing, and you are not more likely to be gullible. And in fact, it seems that if you are a higher trusting person, you're actually less likely to be gullible compared to, say, like the cynic.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Like there's this researcher named Toshio Yamagishi, who's considered one of the most prominent researchers in gullibility and trust out of Hokkaido University. I know how to say Hokkaido. I don't know why I had trouble with that at first. But one of the things that Yamagishi did in the 1990s was to tell people who scored high in trusting this and other people who scored low.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
About the story of Bill and Chuck, I think you should take it because it's got a great story.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Right. But the bottom line was, even with positive information, like Bill littered, but he also cut in line. If you took all of the tallies, you would see that people who are low in trusting others and people who are high in trusting others, they had about the same scores.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
So this research from Yamagishi and others shows that you can trust other people and it doesn't open you up to being taken advantage of. That just doesn't make any sense because just the idea of being gullible means that you're trusting what somebody else is saying. That's the popular conception of it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
But as we've seen, really the idea of gullibility is trusting what somebody says because you either don't care enough to go figure it out yourself. because you don't feel like thinking for yourself, because what they're saying confirms your biased beliefs, not that you just trust people in general.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
And the explanation that I saw that really kind of drives it home for me, Chuck, is that people who have high trust are also more discerning. So they would have probably a better social intelligence than people who don't trust as much. And that makes sense because if you don't trust people like the cynic, you're actually protecting yourself. You're guarding yourself.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
And you know what happens when social psychologists get a hold of something. Oh, yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
You know that you are probably not as discerning as other people. And so rather than get yourself into trouble time and time again, you just keep people at arm's length. You don't really trust them. Whereas if you are high trusting, you are better at discerning. And that either means that...
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Because you're good at discerning, you have the freedom to trust other people because you can be confident in your judgment of other people. And you're probably not going to be taken advantage of. Or if you are just a trusting person by nature, you have to have a higher discernment or else you're going to be taken advantage of. Either way, high discernment and high trust go hand in hand.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
It's a little unsteady as they figure it out. That's right. It's an oyster stew party. So I think it's not us is what I'm trying to say. And you, dear listener, if you're like, what is going on? It's not you either. It's social psychology.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah, because at base, you can go through life not trusting other people and you can make it all the way to old age and die at pretty much the same age that you would have had you trusted people. But again, you're missing out. There's opportunity costs. to not trusting other people that people who do trust other people are not missing out on. And you're just not connected as socially.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
And research after research after research shows that social connections are like the number one predictor of living to a healthy older age. So you're actually robbing yourself by just not trusting other people. But again, it's kind of understandable if you were taught that your judgment is questionable, either through trauma, through a jerk stepdad or whatever.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
It's understandable, and I'm not sure if that's something that you can learn to break out of, although I sincerely hope it is.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
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Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah. And people also judge other people to be more likely to be duped than they are, more gullible than they are. But yeah, his whole message is like, no, we're actually as a group, as a species, not all that gullible. What appears to be gullibility is actually just somebody not caring enough to argue a point or they're accepting information, but they're hanging on to it loosely and
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Olivia, I thought this is awesome. She pointed out that if you are shown like an AI generated baby peacock that looks super cute and has huge eyes and is colorful and is nothing like what a baby peacock really looks like.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
If you're not like a peacock researcher or your job doesn't depend on positively identifying baby peacocks, it doesn't really matter if you think that that's what they look like. Because you're holding on to it loosely enough that if somebody comes along and says, that's not what baby peacocks actually look like, you're not going to like, that's not the hill you're going to die on.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
You're going to be like, oh, that's crazy what AI can do. Or, oh, it got me. Or just be like, great, I now know what baby peacocks feel. or look like. And that's his point is that's not gullibility. That's just not stopping to analyze, you know, whether it's true or not, because it just isn't that important right then.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah, because it came at your beliefs and said, yep, go for it. Like that's what that's the official line now is anti-Semitism. Yeah. Yeah. And also similarly, political ads don't don't really work. That's what they say. Yeah. And that makes me wonder, though, if that's just being suspicious of the messenger because of polarization, that you're not going to be like, hmm.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Let's hear what this opposing political party has to say about Medicare. I'm really interested. I'm going to keep an open mind. No, it's like this message is from the opposing party. I'm just going to laugh at it because it's just so full of it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
They came up with a report that found that worldwide people lose a trillion dollars to scams every year. Man. That's a lot of money. But some of these same researchers are like, hey, there's actually some short, like easy stuff you can walk around in your head with to use to apply to new information to protect from being gold, which is actually a word.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah. One of them is the first step is to admit that you're as susceptible to being scammed as anybody else.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah. Well, it also puts the kibosh on being overconfident, which again can increase your chance of being duped.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Don't make emotional decisions like we talked about. Keep a lid on impulsivity. Don't respond to like, act now. Supplies are running out kind of like come ons. Don't respond to false scarcity. Like remember people hoarding toilet paper?
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Those are emotional decisions. You want to just stay cool and level-headed. Another one is ask questions. Ask for more information. Don't be afraid to look dumb. That's a big one. Yeah, it's a big one. And then consider the source. Is there any supporting information? And when you put all this together, you are probably going to come up with a good decision or understanding.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
And if you're being gulled by somebody, that's a real word, you are probably going to say, I don't believe what you're saying. You, sir, are a cat and a scoundrel. Please get out of my face before I smack you with my glove. And we have to duel.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Well, at least the next day when they send out the email, they ask if you fell for it. They don't show like a list with pictures of all the people who did fall for it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
I agree. And that is no fooling. and if you want to know more about gullibility, go do some research yourself on it. That's kind of the point of not being gulled, which is a real word. And since I said that, it's time for Listener Mail. Listener Mail.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
I take issue with this right out of the gate. I kind of did too. I think that's a terrible distinction because I think you can totally fall for something and be duped. Yeah. And you be the only person who knew that, who knows it. You know, somebody could say something that duped you and they don't stop and focus to get like that reaction.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Pretty impressive. Thanks a lot, Mark. I'm just going to call you Mark for now because I feel like we're on a first name basis. That was a great email. Great story. And if you want to see if you can top Mark, you can send us an email too. Send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
That question of whether they duped you or not answered, they just keep going on. But you know you've been duped. You don't have to respond to a Nigerian prince email or send somebody a bunch of Walmart cards to get out of some random federal case that's against you. To have been gullible, you just have to believe it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
And usually in the absence of any kind of supporting evidence and sometimes in the presence of contradictory evidence, that's gullibility in my understanding. You're believing something without bothering to go check it out. And that to me is the baseline of gullibility.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah. McQuarrie? Not that. Although anytime you do that, you sound like Murray from Flight of the Conchords to me. Murray in present.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
No. You can just believe. What's up with Greenspan? And no one in the world could know besides you that you believed and you're still gullible in that sense. The thing that really stood out to me that we'll talk about a lot more, though, is... But you could make a really good case that people aren't as gullible as other people think they are. And I found that kind of reassuring.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
We'll talk about that later. But I don't want anybody to get the impression that we're just like, yep, people are generally stupid. And here's how they fall for stupid stuff. And you're probably stupid too. That's not actually what the science of gullibility has turned up.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
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Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah, you're not informed enough in that particular thing.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
It's a big one. If you're low in curiosity, you're like, I don't care. Just tell me what to think. I'm too lazy to go figure it out myself. I got better things to do than think. Or if you have a high need for independence.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
This struck me quite a bit because if you're independence minded, you don't need smarty pants, pencil neck college boys telling you what's right or what's wrong or what's true or what's false. you can figure it out yourself. And those people are actually at high risk of being duped, which is really surprising. But if you stop and think about it, it makes total sense.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
They're overconfident, and that's a huge factor in being gullible.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Right. And strangely, ironically, almost as if he did it on purpose because it supports everything he wrote about. Stephen Greenspan, the author of that book about gullibility, he finished his book and shortly afterward, he was informed by, I guess, his stockbroker that he had lost a bunch of money by investing in Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
So he was like, even the guy that researched this and wrote the book on gullibility can fall for it. That's a really great little tidbit. But I think it also goes to show just how specific gullibility is. Because I don't get the impression that Stephen Greenspan was like, this Madoff guy is making a lot of really great points and this is incredibly high risk.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
But I'm going to go along with it anyway. Like he went through a stockbroker and everything. So there's only a certain amount of gullibility. Bernie Madoff is like shorthand for fooling people. You know what I mean?
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Not to pick on Steven Greenspan or anything like that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
So some other people have said, well, we really want to show off as social psychologists. We're going to create a gullibility scale. And in fact, Alessandra Tunis from Macquarie University – I'm not even going to try that one, but it's Australian for university – Sorry, Australians. There's this beer called Foster's that here in America we think you drink a lot of.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
And in America, the ad campaign says Foster's. It's Australian for beer.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
That's the best I can do. That's how I think Australians talk.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and we're flying solo again, which means we hopefully won't crash this joint, and this is Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
It did because they backed it up. I can't remember what it's called, but they tested the validity. They tested the validity of the self-reporting panel and found that the people who reported themselves or scored the highest on gullibility on this test were more likely to click a link on a phishing email than people who scored low. That's right. So it seems like a valid test.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
And one of the things, I went and looked it up, Chuck, and one of the questions wasn't even a question. It was, you are very persuadable. And the only option to check was yes. Ah, what? No, I'm kidding.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
It was more of the joke. I wasn't trying to take advantage of you, although I realize now that I did.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah, pretty much. And depending on and it doesn't even have to be like you're such a stupid kid every day. It can just be things like where your your opinion is not really heard or validated or just all sorts of little missteps that parents can make that make parenting a living nightmare. So you can carry on as an adult and it can make you doubt your own opinion. So you're not going to speak up.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
That's right. How are you, man? You're still sick, huh?
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
It can make you be afraid of looking stupid. So you don't ask questions because you don't want to seem like I don't I didn't immediately get it. So I'm going to look dumb if I ask these questions. There's like it just sets you up for being more likely to be a victim of being duped than somebody who has a lot of confidence.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
No, is he really? No, actually, I don't think so. Oh, you got me back. There you go. We should just do that to one another like every minute or two. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
But I guess that depends on whether paranormal activity is real or not, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
I mean, that's described from a point of view where you're just like, that's all fake anyway, so. Yeah. Duh. One of the things about social intelligence that's worth pointing out, so that's basically a package that you can have.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Some people are much better at it than others, but basically everyone alive in a society has some degree or other of this package of skills that form social intelligence, like whether or not you're good at conversation, whether you are good at effective listening, what your knowledge of like social roles and social scripts are, and then awareness of like what make other people tick.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
And then what people think of you and you put all this together. And if you have like high emotional or social intelligence, you're going to be able to navigate interactions with other people much better than somebody with low intelligence. Part of that is not getting scammed by somebody by being able to be like, you're a scammer and I'm not going to send you a Walmart gift card now.
Stuff You Should Know
The Gullibility Episode
Yeah, I admire people with high social intelligence because it's not just, you know, being able to spot a scammer. It's being able to see the best in other people and I think to bring out the best in other people and let them bring out the best in you. That's just, it's maybe in another life, maybe the next lifetime. Oh, buddy.
Stuff You Should Know
The Group of Seven
I'm not just talking about Google. I'm talking anywhere. Clearview scrapes together images from Facebook, from LinkedIn, from Venmo accounts.
Stuff You Should Know
The Group of Seven
And sometimes it makes mistakes. So in this one case, two of the search results that I think were in the top 10 of the search results were Michael Jordan, a picture of Michael Jordan. But cops are still using it to make arrests. Police, they are trusting the software to lead them to the right suspect.
Stuff You Should Know
The Group of Seven
But you're not even being told that it was used, let alone given any of the details about how it works. This is not Minority Report.
Stuff You Should Know
The Group of Seven
I'm not just talking about Google. I'm talking anywhere. Clearview scrapes together images from Facebook, from LinkedIn, from Venmo accounts.
Stuff You Should Know
The Group of Seven
And sometimes it makes mistakes. So in this one case, two of the search results that I think were in the top 10 of the search results were Michael Jordan, a picture of Michael Jordan. But cops are still using it to make arrests. Police, they are trusting the software to lead them to the right suspect.
Stuff You Should Know
The Group of Seven
But you're not even being told that it was used, let alone given any of the details about how it works. This is not Minority Report.
Stuff You Should Know
The Group of Seven
Clearview scrapes together images from Facebook, from LinkedIn, from Venmo accounts. I'm Dexter Thomas, host of Killswitch, a podcast about how living in the future is affecting us right now. Police, they are trusting the software with this magical ability to lead them to the right suspects.
Stuff You Should Know
The Group of Seven
So if your accuser is this algorithm, but you're not even being told that it was used, let alone given any of the details about how it works, listen to Killswitch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
A lot of his advisors were like, we don't need to go back to Memphis. We have a trip to Africa scheduled, and let's just follow through, and we'll leave it behind us. And he was like, no, we have to go back. So he actually canceled that Africa trip and brought everyone back to Memphis. And he got back there on April 3rd.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
And that evening, he gave what's been known today as his I've Been to the Mountaintop speech. I believe it was his final speech. Gave it at the Mason Temple Church in Memphis. And it was a pretty significant speech, as you can imagine. I mean, basically everyone's aware of this. But in it, he recounts a previous assassination attempt that I had never heard of. Had you? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Right. Well, so he was signing a book at a department store when he was stabbed in a chest by a mentally ill woman named Azola Curry, stabbed in the chest with a seven-inch letter opener. And Azola Curry was convinced that civil rights organizations like MLKs were tracking her, had singled her out and were tracking her, preventing her from getting employment, just generally messing with her life.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
And the papers all reported that the surgeon who treated MLK, obviously he survived, was that the letter opener came so close to his heart that had he sneezed, it would have penetrated his aorta and killed him. So he really lucked out. And he talked about this in his I've Been to the Mountaintop speech.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
But the thing that most people remember about it is that he, in a way, almost predicted his death the following day at the end of the speech.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Yeah, and I've read that some people are like, he felt like that death was close, that he didn't have much time left. So it makes sense that he would have put that in. I don't think he expected to be murdered the next day, but I read that he sensed that he was not going to live much longer.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Yeah, I was thinking about that and just like living in an era of assassinations, like successful assassinations of prominent political figures, one of whom was the president at the time. I just that's just nuts that America went through that period.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
and, you know, the world mourned. I mean, that was all true, but there was just so much more to it. So hopefully we'll kind of get some of that across in this. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
So that day on April 4th, it was the evening. It turns out Bono got it wrong in that song Pride.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Well, yes, that's much more accurate because that's when it happened. King had just been grinding away in Memphis for two days by then, and he was staying in room 306 of the now very famous Lorraine Motel. That was the room that he usually took any time he and his people were in Memphis.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
They stayed at the Lorraine Hotel because it was a black-owned business and had been owned by Walter Bailey and his wife Lori since the 1940s. It was listed in the Green Book even. It was just a Black-owned business, and it was a nice hotel to stay in. And by the time the late afternoon, early evening rolled around, MLK was late for a dinner at the Reverend Billy Kyle's house in Memphis.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
And they all started to leave to head to Billy Kyle's house for dinner. And he stepped outside of his room and onto the balcony, and he was speaking down to some other members of his group. I think he told one of them to start the car. And a shot did ring out, and it hit MLK in the face.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Bessie Brewer's boarding house.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Yeah, and a doctor named Jerry T. Francisco was the medical examiner at Shelby County at the time, and he conducted an autopsy, and he concluded that Martin Luther King was killed by a gunshot wound to the chin and neck with a total transaction of the lower cervical and upper thoracic spinal cord and other structures of the neck.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
I read somewhere that Martin Luther King probably didn't even hear the shot that killed him. It just hit him so fast. It was shot from a high-powered rifle close enough by that he just wouldn't have heard it. And I was thinking it was possible that he died almost instantly. Had you read that he was still alive for a period, like when he got to the hospital?
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
So let's talk MLK, because he kind of skyrocketed to prominence from just the start. He became involved in the Montgomery bus boycott, which most people say kicked off the civil rights era in the United States, thanks to Rosa Parks. who we did an episode on, Rosa Parks' agent of change. You remember that one? That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Well, hopefully he was completely unconscious at the time. So, I mean, it's my hope that he just never knew what hit him or anything hit him. Yeah, I didn't realize that. Yeah, I thought he probably died instantly.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, that is fairly unique. So yeah, that's pretty specific. At the boarding house too, at Bessie Brewer's boarding house, people who were staying there later told police that they heard people, or at least someone maybe, going back and forth. to the bathroom. This is a boarding house, so obviously there was a shared bathroom rather than a bathroom in each room.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
And somebody kept going to the bathroom, hanging out in the bathroom, coming out of the bathroom, going back to the bathroom. And the cops who investigated found scuff marks in the bathtub, obviously left by somebody's shoes. And the bathtub was where you would have had to have stood to see out the window to have a shot at Martin Luther King on the balcony.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
So the people in the boarding house heard MLK's assassin. The question was who it was. And obviously we know now it was James Earl Ray, but at the time they didn't realize that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Yeah. We'll talk about the investigation and everything like that in part two. But I say we take our second break and come back and talk about what happened after MLK died.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Yeah. So, yeah, like you said, the National Day of Mourning was April 7th, but. Throughout that whole period from the day that his assassination took place to his funeral, there was a lot of places closed down. And I saw, Chuck, that on the day of his funeral, the New York Stock Exchange closed, which is pretty significant.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
The NBA and the NHL were in their playoffs and they rescheduled their games. But the Major League Baseball, they did not postpone opening day. much to their discredit. But Roberto Clemente and Maury Willis of the Pirates said, well, we're not playing today. It's Martin Luther King Jr. 's funeral. That's great. We're not going to disrespect it like that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
And they inspired players on other teams to sit it out too. So from what I saw, effectively opening day was postponed for a number of teams, if not all of MLB.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Yeah, I would call it more like a match thrown on a powder keg. Just the explosive reaction was, like you said, not just because of MLK's assassination, but that was the thing that set it off. Previously, the summer before, it was called the Long Hot Summer because there had been a ton of riots nationwide. in cities like Detroit. There was five days of rioting.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
It just kept happening all over the place in Black communities around the United States. And there were reasons for this. There were, like, segregation had officially ended, but in practice, there was tons of segregation left, especially kinds of, like, housing discrimination that essentially created Thank you.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Yes. But one of the things you don't learn about these days as often is that he was, at that point, beginning to become widely criticized, not just by white Americans, many of whom have been criticizing him all along, but by black Americans as well. There was a real division in the civil rights movement.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
between Martin Luther King's vision of his doctrine of nonviolence, which is basically saying like, hey, we're going to essentially do everything we can to show white Americans the problems that black Americans face just by being black in America. And no matter what they do to us, we're not going to fight back. And we're going to make an example of ourselves
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Okay. Thank you. I don't know.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
that will hopefully set for them, and the ultimate goal was to integrate into America, to integrate black Americans into America so that there wasn't black America and white America. And that ran very much contrary to the other rival idea, which was Malcolm X's idea.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Yeah, and again, that's totally contrary to King's doctrine of nonviolence, which Malcolm X considered criminal, as he put it, in the face of just being beaten by whites just for marching in the streets peacefully. And a big portion of the people who are critical of King and his nonviolence doctrine were the younger generations. They tended to lean more militantly, more in Malcolm X's direction.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
And then in white America, with white Americans, He was basically never popular during his lifetime, at least with the majority of white Americans.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Yeah. And so this was, it's really hard to oversee how controversial the speech was. Like he just stopped mincing words and came out and said everything that needed to be said. And so his alliance with Lyndon Bain Johnson, who was president at the time, was just shattered right then. LBJ stepped away from him, publicly broke with him. I think Laura helps us out with this.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
She found 168 newspapers issued editorials denouncing him for that speech. So he was already not super popular with white Americans. His popularity was so-so with black Americans, and all Americans were now mad at him for his stance on Vietnam, or a ton of them were. And then one of the other things that really proved to be very difficult for him later in his life, later in his career—
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
was he shifted focus from strictly civil rights for black Americans to economic justice for poor Americans of all races. He created something called the Poor People's Campaign. came up with an economic bill of rights that is essentially pretty socialist, I mean, at its core. And he also basically said, like, this campaign is also going to be a shift, not just in focus, but in potency.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Like, we're not going to be quite as peaceful as we were before. We're not going to go Malcolm X, like, full-on militant. But you can expect, you know, I think he famously said 15% to 16% more militancy.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck. And it's just the two of us today, which is fine because we need to keep our nose to the grindstone and really focus on a pair of really important episodes, which we kick off now.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Right. So, Chuck, do you want to take a break now?
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
So in the spring of 1968, Memphis, Tennessee, which had previously prided itself on its white community and black communities kind of, you know, fairly getting along, especially compared to some other places like places in Alabama, it was by this time in high tension as a town. And it was largely because of the Memphis sanitation workers' strike.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
MLK became very interested in helping further the goals of the Memphis sanitation workers in their strike because he basically saw this as like, this is a perfect bridge between this transition from a focus just on civil rights to this larger focus on poor people of all colors. Because...
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Like, this was mostly, almost exclusively Black sanitation workers who were struggling for recognition of their work, dignity in their work, decent wages. Apparently, if you were a full-time sanitation worker in Memphis, you were still eligible for food stamps after your full salary. And he was like, this is exactly the perfect kind of thing that I'm trying to get across. Like, this is important.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
So he kind of focused on Memphis in the spring of 1968. And like I said, it was in a state of high tension because a couple of protests, marches essentially to support the workers, had not really gone really well previously.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Yeah, that was verbatim what I said. And I said, let's do it. There was a ton of stuff that I did not know about MLK's assassination.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
Yeah, and this was on the heels of another march the month before in February where protesters, including some ministers who were marching, were maced by police. So Memphis just like basically almost like throwing a switch went from like a generally okay city as far as race relations were concerned to like the National Guard is now here keeping order in like a month. It just changed that quickly.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
And because he was leading the march on March 28th, King became totally, I don't want to say obsessed, but he was fully zeroed in on returning to Memphis to set things right. Because that was a huge black eye against him, his career, and in particular, his whole doctrine of nonviolence. And again, like the invaders were not related to what was going on.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
James Earl Ray. Like, there's a lot of stuff around it. And it's just a reminder that history gets so boiled down to, like, its bare essence or even, like, a caricature of itself. Yeah. when you really dig into like a historical event, you're just reminded that there's just so many people affected and involved. And it's not just, you know, James Earl Ray shot Martin Luther King Jr.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part I
They essentially used this as a chance to mix things up. And King just basically wanted to go give it another try and hopefully restore his reputation, hopefully restore the reputation of the civil rights movement he was leading. And he put everything on the line. to go back to Memphis and try it again. Because it could have gone wrong again, and that would have really damaged things even further.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
So to legitimize this idea that it was the hand of glory, somebody just said along the way, maybe even Margaret Murray, that the hand was severed and found at the trunk of the tree. And you will see that everywhere, even in ones that don't mention witchcraft. It's just, that's how cases like this just get, you know, that's how they become unsolvable over time.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
But I mean, I guess it doesn't really matter, but for some reason it's just always ticked me off.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
I got to check this out. Let me go grab my phone. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. So Josh really did go get his phone. Like, it doesn't even look old. It looks like they just severed a hand and planted some wicks on it. Like, wow.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Well, okay, so it looks like an aged person's hand, but it's not like a mummified hand. No, no, no, no.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Yeah. I do feel like we need to change the name Hand of Glory, though. First of all, it doesn't make sense. And secondly, it really does sound dirty. Let's just be honest about it.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Yeah, by the way, that was Charles Walton who was murdered almost certainly by his employer in a raid.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Right. And the police said, well, T.S., because you're going to have a secret meeting.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Yeah, he has been. Hats off to you, John. Like that's, you should be very proud. We're all proud of you for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Yeah. And Anna's name was Una Mossop. And she eventually became Una Hainsworth. But during the time of the murder, she was married to a guy named Jack Mossop. And I saw alternatively that he worked in a local munitions factory or that he was a RAF instructor or that he worked in a factory building plane engines. Regardless, he existed. He was married to Una.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
And Una told the story to the cops that one night Jack brought home a friend named Van Ralt, a Dutchman. And that apparently at some point Jack admitted to Una that he was on Van Ralt's payroll and Van Ralt was a spy for the Nazis. And apparently Jack was feeding him information about local factories and stuff to help the Luftwaffe plan their bombings. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
So Jack was a real grade-A bastard as far as things went because he traded his country in for some spending money. And Una said one day Jack came home in March or April of 1941, came home late. He was drunk, but he was super agitated.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Uh, wow. That was really cool of you to bring up. I'm glad you did.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Yeah, he died of, as far as his death certificate is concerned, a combination of cerebral softening, myocardial degeneration, chronic nephritis, and acute something insanity. I can't even remember my own abbreviation. But you put those together, and that guy is like dead, dead, dead. So Una's story sounded like this actually all makes sense.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
From what I can tell, she provided information that you wouldn't have just been able to glean from the papers. And what's more, she didn't really have much to gain. She wrote in anonymously and resisted coming forward. So it wasn't like she was a publicity hound.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
She would be like a mastermind attention getter to to to really like. Yes, it would be a weird thing to say to make up.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Exactly. One of the things is, though, is so like if this was a joke, what, you know, what tree? How did Van Ralt know that that tree was there in the first place and that it had this 12 by 24, you know, space in it? The thing is, this is far and away the most legitimate explanation for what happened. This is an unsolved case. It's an unsolved mystery.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
But for my money, like this is as close as we're ever going to get.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
That's cool, man. Yeah. You sent me and Jerry some good pictures. Yeah. It was fun. Um, okay. Well onto the murder of a woman. Awful. So this is a pretty true, pretty famous true crime case, like really, really famous. I'm not sure if you'd heard of it before. Have you? No, no. I'm not sure why or where it first got me, but I'm pretty sure. So I think Dave helped us with this.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Yeah. So Dave points out that this guy had a habit of making his puzzle pieces fit together a little too neatly. So essentially he found out about Una Mossop's story and decided to make it real by corroborating it with his imagination. Yeah. His book, though, is the book that we get the very famous pictures that I was familiar with that caught my attention as a kid.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
But it's really important to point out here the tree that he shows is not the tree that she was found in. You said toward the beginning of the episode that the cops chopped that tree down to look for more evidence. So that tree doesn't exist anymore. And yet that's that picture that Donald McCormick put forth as the tree.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
is what you see on the internet still today is the tree she was found in, and that that's possibly not even the kind of tree, that she might not have been found in a witch elm. The cops mentioned that she was found in an elm, but that's it.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
And then apparently some people have been able to examine the photos of the original tree and said it's not a witch elm because you don't cut witch elms down that way. That story about you seeing that picture, when did that happen? I was probably like 10, 11. I think probably in like a school library book or something like that about mystery.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Okay. No, no, no. That's how I was walking around with this case for that many years. Like I saw it in some book when I was a kid. I got you. That makes it so much better. I can even remember like the cellophane covering of the book cover even. I can feel it in my fingers right now. I can smell it.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Okay. Yeah. So there's a lot that's weird about this. So Clara Landau, this picture of Clara Landau was actually a picture of Clara Bowerly, who was a well-known, I saw her described as a movie star, but at least a movie actress and a cabaret singer, a German. Lily von Stupp. And so, yeah, exactly. I think that's almost exactly who this could have been based on.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
She was apparently, as far as Yosef Jacobs has said to MI5 in multiple interviews, that this was his mistress, that they met in Berlin. Bowerly was singing with a group called the Bernard Etta Orchestra. It just goes to show you Dave's dedication to research. Yeah, yeah. And that Jacobs and Bowerly were both –
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
crypto-Nazis, meaning that they were not actual Nazis, they were pretending to be Nazis, and they had fooled the Germans, or at least Yaakov had, into taking him on as a spy and sending him to England. He planned to get to England, defect, and make his way to America, but first he wanted to set up a fake operation enough to convince the Germans to send Bowerly after him.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
And he linked to a pair of pictures of a tree and then a diagram of the woman, the murdered woman in this case. And like, you know, like almost an anatomical picture.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
And this this is that's it. Like that's that's what Yosef Jacob said. But the Independent was like, oh, let's fill in some blanks and come up with our own theory. Donald McCormick style.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
They did. I mean, think about it. So like she left a full eight, nine years before Bella and the Witch Elm happened was was killed. And yet, yeah, the independent's like, so what? So based on all this, with a bunch of pie filling that they mashed in with it, the independent came up with a new theory. And I say we take a little break and come back and talk about it after this.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
diagram of like what was found where and what she was wearing and all that and it has like a real Ripley's believe it or not look to it the drawing does and those things are as etched in my brain as pictures from like the time life paranormal series oh wow from when I was a kid so at some point I was exposed to this so it's one of those things that I've always just kind of known about and
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
So like I was saying, the Independent came up with their own pet theory for the Bella and the Witch Elm case. And what they said was, OK, so Clara, Clara Bowerly, had come to England in the 30s and was a performer, a cabaret singer here as well as in Germany. And that she became known as Clara Bella. Like maybe this is a stage name she adopted or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
But it was a mashup of her name, Clara Bowerly. And that was the foundation that they based everything else on.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
So, yeah. So there's some problems with this theory. Number one, she was not Clara Bowerly was not five feet tall. She was approaching six feet tall. That's the biggest problem with this, right? That's a pretty big problem. I would I would say that there's an even bigger problem than this. And that is that she died a full year after Bella did in a German hospital of a barbiturate overdose.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
But I didn't know any of the details, really. And it's a truly fascinating case that I think one of the things that makes it appealing, too, is there's this level of the sense of like witchcraft or some sort of like pagan cults involved or something like that. And it turns out that that's not true.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
No. And this is 2013. This isn't the independent, you know, decades ago. This was, well, I guess a decade ago. But still, it was recent enough that they should know better than making up basically new theories and printing them as if they're basically fact. So one of the good things that came out of this was of Yosef Yaakov's being brought into this case.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Although just totally, like, that was the independent that did that. That was... Like he was not mentioned that he was not tangential. The case, he had nothing to do with it, basically. But his granddaughter, Giselle K. Jacobs, or Jacobs, I'm not sure which one she goes by. She has a Ph.D. in ancient history.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
So she knows about being a historian and she's applied some of that to the Bella and the Witch Elm. case on a website called yosefjacobs.info. And it is very well researched and well written information about this case. So if you're interested in it at all, go check that out.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
No idea. That's gone for good. That's not in any warehouse anywhere. No, which is probably a good thing. And now we'll wrap up this episode with five minutes on the ancient woodland management technique of coppicing. Very funny. You got anything else? I have nothing else. Well, go forth if this floated your boat and read more about Bella and the Witch Elm, the case.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Just be wary of where your information's from. And there's a lot more to it. There's a lot, well, there's a lot more out there to read. How about that? And in the meantime, it's time for listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Well, also, I called up John Williams, and he was like, yep, I love that funeral march. Keep up the good work, boys.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
That's not the case, that a lot of it is just associated with the tree that she was found in, a witch elm, which has nothing to do with witches. And that she might not have even been found in that kind of tree. So let's get into it, Chuck, because I like confusing everybody from the outset.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Loved your turn as the little kid in Lost Boys.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Yeah, it definitely did. I saw it not too long ago and I was like, this is, like I said it before, I'll say it again. It's a good movie.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Well, thanks a lot, Lad, again. I appreciate being backed up. That was very refreshing. And if you want to be like Lad and back me up about some stand I took that everybody tried to shout me down on, and I said, no, I'm not going to be shouted down. They're like, yes, you are. And I said, no, I'm not. And then it just kind of hung out there until you email in. We love that kind of thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
You can send us that email to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Yeah. I think their quote was humming, humming, humming. Plus tax. So, yeah, they could have gotten in a decent amount of trouble. I couldn't find exactly what, but they were poaching, and poaching was a big deal still then. I think it still is now, but it's probably lost a little bit of its punishment.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Regardless, I guess the oldest boy, Tommy Willits, he was 17, despite this vow, went right home and told his parents. And I say, good boy, Tommy Willits, because it was clear to him, like, We just found a human skull in a tree, and that's something that we need to talk about. So very quickly, the police were called in, and they started to investigate.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
And they brought in a guy named James Webster, who was a pathologist with the Birmingham Forensic Laboratory. And he essentially led the initial investigation and came to some pretty good basic conclusions. Because there's one thing to know about this case. It has been... hijacked and molded in all sorts of different ways.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
And you really have to be careful that you're aware of what source you're getting your information from, because it's just one of those cases that people have loved to talk about and add to and lie about and do all sorts of stuff with. But the stuff that comes from James Webster is definitely legit. He was, he firsthand examined the body.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Right. So Webster was like, I'm pretty sure this is a murder. There's a few things that stand out to me. One, stuffed into the jaw, pretty deeply into the jaw, was a piece of the taffeta from the woman's dress. Yeah. And enough that it was enough of the piece of the dress that he was like, this could have asphyxiated somebody if it was stuffed into their mouth while they were still alive. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Probably wasn't a dress eater. So maybe this is murder. He also said that there's no way that this person was placed into this tiny opening. So it was about 12 inches by 24 inches, like, say, a third of a meter by two thirds of a meter. OK. Yeah. Which is a very tiny place, even for a five-foot woman. I get claustrophobic just thinking about that.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
And that if they were dead already, then rigor mortis would have prevented them from being pushed into there even. Yeah. And then also, this is not the kind of place that a person is just going to crawl into on their own accord. Like they were placed in there, possibly while alive still, which is one of the ghastlier aspects of this case.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
And so Webster said, you know, you put all this together, I'm pretty sure this is a murder that we're looking at.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Yeah. So this is where we get the name of the victim that everybody knows and the type of tree that the victim was found in that everybody knows from graffiti, from an anonymous person. Yeah. But it was enough that the police were like, okay, this seems a little weird. There were other people who started to kind of copycat the whole thing once the paper started writing about it.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
But there was at least... A third one, a couple of days later, that was clearly written by the first person who wrote the first two. And they were like, maybe this person knows who it was and they want to find justice for the woman. And they reopened the case. And this is, I mean, they'd already really extensively investigated having like both Both jaws.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
They're like, great, we'll do dental records and we'll find who it is. Nothing matched. They tried to comb through all of the missing persons reports. No one matched. They get this, Chuck. Did you see that they investigated the shoe and got really far with it? They traced the shoe that they found with her back to the Waterfoot Company in Lancashire.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
And they traced down all but six of the owners of all but six of the pairs. They were sold in a market stall. So this wasn't like looking through the market's credit card receipts. They didn't have credit cards. No. Like, they really were doing some legwork here. And, you know, hats off to them because let's not forget, England was getting bombed almost nightly by the Luftwaffe.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
There was food rationing. There was a war on. And they investigated this random, you know, dead person that hard. And then they reopened the case. I'm just saying I think they did a good job with what they were working with.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
I think it was Diners Club, in fact, with Telly Savalas. No, that was Players Club.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Yes. Yeah. They looked for everybody. Bella, Lubella, Isabella, Lubega, everybody. And nothing came up, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
That was one of the best pranks ever played on us.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Yeah. Yeah. So the witch elm thing, for those of us who aren't familiar with British trees. Sure. The name witch elm does not mean witch, W-I-T-C-H. You spelled it before. It's W-Y-C-H. And it comes from an old English word, maybe vice, vis, vice. W-I-C-E. And that means smooth or supple. And that describes the bark of a witch elm. Has nothing to do with witches.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Jerry. Oh my gosh, there's Chuck. Sorry, Chuck. And this is Stuff You Should Know, and we're off to a weird, weird start already.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Witches are not associated with the witch elm. It's not even spelled the same. And yet... There's been an association with witchcraft and this case, at least in part because of that, even among Brits. Like there was a folklorist and archaeologist named Margaret Murray who loved to spin a good yarn.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
And she was one of the first people to associate this case with witches and basically said witches killed this lady.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
Yeah, it's nothing like what it sounds like with Hand of Glory. Instead, it's an old burglar's superstition that you would take a severed hand and put a candle in it, like make it hold a candle, or you would basically attach candles to all five fingers, the tips of them, and then you'd light it. And if it stayed lit, then that meant that everybody in the house you were about to rob was asleep.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
I just don't know what happened. My efference copy's on the fritz.
Stuff You Should Know
Who Put Bella In the Wych Elm?
If any of them went out, that meant that there was somebody still awake and you shouldn't rob that house. It had nothing to do with witchcraft. And then even more so, there was no hand found severed from the body. That doesn't appear in any of the initial police reports. It's just an... It's a great example of the lies that came up.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
So we can't really say what happened, but all we know is that while he was sequestered, that was the word I was groping for earlier. While he was sequestered away, or while they were, Edward V and his younger brother Richard, they were seen increasingly less in public, usually walking around the grounds of the Tower of London because they were basically being held hostage.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Until I think in the fall of 1485, they just disappeared from public view. No one ever heard of them again as far as the historical record is concerned.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yeah. I mean, and they gave some pretty great advice.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
For a long time, yes. It's been in my head.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yeah, and we should say Shakespeare wrote The Tragedy of Richard III about 100 years after Richard died. And the idea that Richard III murdered directly, because if they were murdered, he almost certainly did it himself, a lot of people argue. Other people say, yes, Sir James Turrell probably had somebody do it. And the idea is that they were smothered with pillows.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
But this idea doesn't pop up in writing until after Richard's death. And the whole idea is that he had really great motive to kill these kids because even if they were illegitimate, they could go off, grow up, train. There would probably be a montage of some sort as they're training. Right. And they could come back and try to topple him from the throne through battles and violence.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
And we'll get into all that right now. Wow, that's a great intro. So Richard III, his name may ring a bell if you're not already familiar with him because there's a very, very famous play by Shakespeare called The Tragedy of Richard III. And in this play, Richard III has a hunchback. He has a withered arm. He has a... Horrible, dark soul at his core.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
And he was just wiping out this, you know, future challenge to his rule. He was not the only one who had that motive. There were a handful of other people around at the time who had just as good a motive of wiping those two kids out for the exact same reason. So that alone is not that's not like the most damning evidence.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
It is, especially if you combine it with other evidence people have generated over the years. But can we talk for a second about why we don't know any of this from the murder mystery to whether they were legitimate or not?
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yes, that's part of it. I read also that the Tudors, when they took over after killing Richard III, destroyed a lot of the platagenet documents in England. And then also, there's not a lot of historians working at the time. Luckily, there were a couple of chronicles that were created. One was by a monk named Dominic Mancini. Or Mancini.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
He happened to be in England at the time all this was going on and went back to Italy and wrote about it. So he had a pretty good and what you would think impartial chronicle of the whole thing. He didn't really have a dog in the fight. And then there's something else called the Crowland Chronicle, which was a chronicle that had been added to over hundreds of years by some local monks.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
at a nearby abbey. And these two don't always agree. Sometimes they contradict each other. Sometimes one talks about an event, the other one doesn't mention it. So you can kind of piece it together. But like if you take Edward IV's will, for example, where he made Richard III Lord Protector, that will's gone. We don't know if Richard made that up. We don't know what the deal is.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Without firsthand evidence and sources, primary sources, all of this is essentially conjecture and up for debate.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yeah, the Lancasters were basically like looking anywhere for somebody who had a legitimate claim. So they went to like a cousin's cousin's next door neighbor's friend's dog's brother to find Henry Tudor, who you could connect the dots to the throne. So he did have a legitimate claim. But he was, like you said, essentially a different family. He was just barely a Lancaster. He was a Tudor.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
He's a terrible person, a murderer of children, a usurper to the throne. And because this is Shakespeare, you know Shakespeare, that's how everybody's thought of Richard III publicly or popularly for hundreds of years. Yeah. Yeah, like Shakespeare wouldn't do a hit piece on somebody, right? No way. If there was even one Shakespeare.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
But this is who they brought to bear as a claim to the throne to challenge the Yorks in the form of Richard III for this throne. And his former friend, the Duke of Buckingham, they staged the Buckingham Rebellion and it just got squashed almost immediately. So within months of being coronated, his rule was challenged right away.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
But he managed to get rid of that and I think another one and hang in there for a couple of years before fortune turned against him.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yeah, so as we'll see, they found his skull and they examined it and found that he had not one but two potential death blows delivered to his head. One was a sword thrust. So imagine sticking a sword into somebody's head through their skull and into their brain. That happened to him. And then somebody came up with a pike.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
or a halberd, which is a very sharp axe on one side and a point, very sharp point on the other opposite the axe blade. And apparently a pikeman came up and cut off essentially the lower part of his skull and took a big chunk of his brainstem with it. So either one of those, whichever one happened first, killed him virtually instantly. That was not the end of the torment to his poor body, though.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
It was. And we should say when he was buried at Greyfriars, too, it was hastily destroyed. I saw that he was basically put in a shallow grave that his legs were sticking out of when they finished, so they had to break his legs to put him in there. It was the kind of grave that could very easily be lost to history. So Richard III is dead. He just died in battle.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Apparently, Henry Tudor has crowned King Henry VII on the battlefield. They took the crown off of Richard's dead body and put it onto Henry. So there's now an entirely new family running the show, the Tudors. And almost immediately, they started a propaganda campaign against Richard III. That culminated later on in Shakespeare.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Like I said, Elizabeth was a relative, a granddaughter, I think, of King Henry VII. So he was trying to basically curry favor, show appreciation for her. But long before him, I mean, basically overnight, they started slamming Richard III, I think is what it's called, slamming him.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
I was thinking back to our episode on... I think it was like, did Shakespeare really write all that stuff? That is one of my all-time favorite episodes because I knew nothing about it, and yet there's this huge, rich subculture of people who like... talk about this and investigate it and debate it. I love that one.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yeah. And also, so if you're like, well, I really picking on this guy's appearance at the time, physical differences were equated with moral failings. Right. So if you hunched back in a withered arm, it meant you were really dark on the inside, like your outside reflected your inner self. And Shakespeare relied very heavily on Thomas More's account.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
But, Chuck, I think the fact that the Tudors found it necessary to launch a smear campaign immediately against Richard III to me strongly suggests that he was not hated and feared and considered a cruel monster while he was alive.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Until like the 1990s, basically, it was like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
But Shakespeare did basically write this play probably at least in part to flatter Queen Elizabeth, who was the reigning monarch at the time, and he was a very loyal subject of hers. Queen Elizabeth was related to the guy who took over from Richard III after Richard III was killed before that guy's very eyes.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Oh, yeah. I've got to see that then. That sounds great. Neil Simon's wonderful.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Another movie I have not seen, but I want to, is a documentary that Al Pacino made because he's apparently a huge Shakespearean and was basically obsessed with the tragedy of Richard III so much so that he made a documentary about Richard III. Have you seen it?
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
I will see it then. If Chuck says it's very good, everybody, that means see it.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
But you have to imagine a 1920s British aristocrat saying that.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
This group is known as Ricardians informally. This group has chapters all over the world, particularly in parts of the world that England has touched, like Canada, the United States, Australia, New Zealand. And of course, in the UK, there's plenty of them. But they are really dedicated to this.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
If you go on their website, the essays and the articles that they have are really detailed, so much so that I would almost advise them to maybe... Dial it back just a little bit for the average person. It's a lot because they're so intensely into it. And this era was so intensely complicated and complex. But they are very much dedicated to reforming his image.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Apparently, they'll hand out pamphlets that are critical of the tragedy of Richard III at performances of the tragedy of Richard III. They're rabble-rousers when it comes to Richard III's reputation.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yeah, it was really critical of received wisdom in general. Like this Scotland Yard inspector who's laid up in the hospital and is just amusing himself by solving this cold case mystery comes to the conclusion that he can't show at all that Richard III was responsible. And in fact, he thinks it might have been Henry VII and or his mother who killed these kids.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Because remember, I said a lot of people had a reason to off them. or get them out of the way. And along the way, this detective is very critical of historians and how they just basically will rely on rumor and unsubstantiated stuff as fact. And that becomes history. And this really changed people's views about historians and history, but also especially about Richard III.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
And that was the thing that really kind of turned the tide for him somewhat.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
I still, after all these years, do not know how to use that correctly in a sentence.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Oh, good, good. I love it even more now. Yeah. So her whole thing was to basically use like cold case investigative methods like the fictional detective did in A Daughter of Time to finding where Richard III's body was. And by this time, historians have basically narrowed it down to a handful of blocks of in the downtown part of Leicester. Like they knew Greyfriars was a real place.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
There was a really good chance that he was in fact buried at Greyfriars after his death. And even though Greyfriars had been demolished like 50 years after Richard died, there were still historical recordings that it was generally in this area of downtown Leicester. One of the areas was under an apartment building.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
It just so happened that that apartment building was demolished at some point, I think in the early 2000s, 2007. And they were able to excavate beneath it and found no evidence of grave fires. So basically, attention turned to the parking lot.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
And when they turned to the parking lot, they found Philippa Langley standing there saying, I've been telling you for two years now that this is where this guy's buried. I just know it.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yeah. There's somebody wearing a T-shirt that says Greyfriars, so I think this is the place.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yes. That also explains that movie with Michael Douglas and Danny DeVito and Kathleen Turner.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
I don't want to gloss over what Philippa Langley contributed. She really got this thing going. She's the one. I don't think the University of Leicester would have done this ever had it not been for her. She obtained permits to do this dig. She really went to town. But she wasn't an archaeologist. The University of Leicester had archaeologists.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
After that ground penetrating radar, she was like, I'm telling you, I told you guys, let's dig here. So then on August 25th, 2012, they started that dig. And this was, it's a, you know, a car park, a parking lot. It's fantastic. Big enough that if you're excavating it with brushes, like toothbrushes and dental picks, it's going to take you a while.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
The longer it takes, the more expensive it's going to be. So they dug in for a really long dig. Within hours, they discovered Richard III.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yeah, it was a big deal. There's a good movie that came out in 2022 called The Lost King. It's about Philippa Langley and this. Oh, I didn't know about that. It's really good. Steve Coogan plays her husband. It's a great movie. But it's definitely it's based on her book looking that's based on her project, the Looking for Richard project. So it's very sympathetic to her.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
And it's very critical of the University of Leicester. And it really kind of became prominent in the movie, at least at this press conference. where she showed up expecting to be part of this whole thing. And she was just sidelined from that point on by the university, who held this huge press conference, really well done press conference. And they announced this to the world.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
This was an enormous deal, especially in the UK, obviously. And then I think just a couple of weeks after that, or within the next several months, they did some more tests. These were DNA tests. And they were like, they held another press conference. They're like, this is definitely Richard III.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Okay, so the houses of York and Lancaster were both part of the Plantagenet dynasty, and that dynasty had been ruling England from 1154 up to the point where we pick up our story. So, like, it was a big deal that these two houses were warring one another for control.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
That's right. That's guidance. That's selling her short. Who played her in the movie? Sally Hawkins, I think. I'm pretty sure that was her name.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Oh, good. Then that's who it was. Wasn't she the Shape of Water, that weird movie? I did not see that movie.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Okay, well, then you would like this movie even more now because she is great in it.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
So you may be sitting there, especially if you're genealogically minded, and be like, well, how did they know? How did they do a DNA test on the skeleton? Did they swab its tooth and then its toe and compare them? No. There was a group of genealogists who got to work tracking down descendants of Richard III. His only son died long before he could have had kids, so he had no heirs whatsoever.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
So this was a bit of work, and they tracked down two different people. One guy was in Canada, and they said, you are definitely a direct descendant of Richard III. Can we stick this cotton swab in your mouth and swirl it around for 30 seconds?
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yeah. They're like, we've brought this Richard III tote bag as a thank you gift. And he said, what's in it? And they're like, nothing. It's just the tote bag.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Even without it, I'm not quite sure what they found that was incontrovertible evidence that it was Greyfriars. But if they had found Greyfriars and then they found this skeleton.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Killed in battle, obviously. Scoliosis. Spine who had scoliosis, who was the right age. Like, I think we would still all be like, yeah, that was Richard III. But yeah, the DNA definitely seals it for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
And an even bigger deal is we'll see that somebody who was basically unrelated to either one would come in and end the Plantagenet dynasty. Richard III was the last Plantagenet king.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Right. I didn't do it. I was framed. Yeah. So I think when the remains were found, one of the headlines of the papers in England, Philippa Langley referred to Richard III as a child killer. And so she was like, you know what? I think I need to come up with another project. Now, the last one was successful. So she's got the two princes project.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Now she's trying to figure out or prove that he did not kill the two princes and or who did. I think she published a book claiming that it was solved and everyone's like this isn't actually solved. But she did come up with some pretty good evidence that suggests that. that those princes made it out of the tower outside of England and managed to grow up and were not killed by Richard III.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Okay. Thanks. You got anything else? I'm Richard III. Chuck?
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yeah, it is. I love this one, too. Well, since we both love this episode, I think, everybody, that means it's time for Listener Mail.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yeah, it sounds like it. Congratulations, John. Thanks for listening to us. We appreciate you. If you want to be like, what's John's mom's name?
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Rebecca. And send us an email about your kid or somebody you know and love in your life who's just great. We love to hear those kind of things. You can send us an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
I think it's all combined collectively under the umbrella of the War of the Roses, and you could consider each of these skirmishes or battles in it.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yeah, but the thing to remember is that these were incredibly vicious, bloody battles being fought by ultimately two different sides of the same large family. But the term Machiavellian is just perfectly used in this era.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
These people were like, you're my brother-in-law and I'm going to cut your head off because I want to get this other guy who's my cousin to the throne so I could take over my brother-in-law's land. Stuff like that. This was like the War of the Roses. And to give you an example of how brutal it was, when Richard III's father, Richard, the third Duke of York, died, he died in battle.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
And his head was cut off and displayed on a pike, and they put a paper crown on it. And he was king at the time. The king had his head cut off and a paper crown put on because the other house had won, and now they were the kings. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
And George is a great example of what kind of duplicitousness and maneuvering was prominent in this era. He was executed under his brother's orders by being drowned in a vat of wine, executed for treason. And this wasn't like saying, I want to take the throne. He really was treasonous and plotting against his own brothers.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
So that was just something that happened in this family at the time during the War of the Roses.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
So Edward IV, Richard's brother, is now on the throne. He has two sons, Edward and Richard. We're going to put them to the side for a little bit because it could not get more confusing if you try to bring them in right now. Can we call them Eddie and Rick?
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yeah. And Edward IV, this is when he has his brother George executed, drowned in a vat of wine. And Edward IV died. And I was looking into it. It's mysterious how he died. He just died suddenly. It wasn't violently. He died of some sort of illness.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
But in his will, he named his brother Richard, Richard III, lord and protector over Edward's son, Edward, who was going to now become King Edward V. He was 12, though. Richard III was 30 at the time. And Richard III was like, I actually think that I would make a better king. Yes, I know that through royal lineage, like Edward V is in line to take the throne.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
He's 12, and I don't really like his jokes. He's a terrible joke teller. I tell great jokes. I should be king. So he started to do some maneuvering and kept putting off the coronation, putting off the coronation, until he was able to produce a rumor, as we'll see, that said King Edward V, the 12-year-old, was illegitimate,
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
His father had not born him, or his father was illegitimate, and he didn't have any real claim to the throne, hence Richard III did, and it worked. So Richard III became king.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Yeah, and this was basically his brother's in-laws that he was killing off. He didn't want them to try to vie for power because the mom of Edward V, the young 12-year-old, she could have a ton of power and so could her brothers and all that kind of stuff. So they were basically like wiping out the other side of the family.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Remember I said Richard III kept putting off the coronation and putting it off? Well, typically, if you're waiting to be coronated king, you would hang out in the Tower of London. And since he was able to keep putting off the coronation, Edward V, the kid who would be Edward V... was basically locked away in the Tower of London.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
And like a month or so after he got there, his younger brother, Richard, who was nine at the time, showed up and they were kind of compartmentalized away in the Tower of London out of public view, just held off to the side while Richard was doing his maneuvering.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
No, they said that Edward IV and Richard III's father, that he had had an affair that bore Edward IV, but Richard III was legitimate. So he was saying, like, my brother wasn't even a legitimate king while he was alive, so his sons definitely aren't. I am, though. Right. Because my parents bore me legitimately. And so there were two illegitimate rumors that were being bandied about at the time.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
And I guess one of them got picked up on by the pope, I believe, who said, yeah, we're cool with this. And an act of parliament was passed that basically said Richard III has gone now from Lord Protector. He's now king because he's the legitimate heir to the throne.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here too, and that makes this a good old-fashioned episode of Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
Richard III: Good Guy or Evil Putz?
So Chuck, you asked before we left what happened to the two princes. That is one of the greatest mysteries, one of the greatest unsolved mysteries in English history. Still today, we don't know what happened to them. And there's a lot of great answers and there's evidence that suggests one way or the other, but there's nothing definitive.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
All right, so before we broke, I mentioned before that it used to be way easier to get away with this kind of thing. I think this probably happened a lot more back in the day. As with all crime, it's just gotten more difficult to get away with that stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Besides DNA, facial recognition technology and video cameras on everyone's front doorstep and surveillance cameras that cities have employed all over, you know, major cities all over the world. It's just really hard. Ich würde ihn nirgendwo erkennen.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
I think so, because they pet your kitty.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Oder, wie bei mir, auf der Internetseite zu posten, wenn Schwierigkeiten ankommen, wie ich meine Show nenne. Das ist eine tolle Show. Emily hat mir eine gestern gesendet. Sie hat gesagt, hey, schau dir mal die Kabelkamera an, 12.11 Uhr. Und sie ist auf der Straße geflogen, in einer sehr, sehr lustigen Weise. Und so hat sie mir sichergestellt, dass ich das gesehen habe. Wirst du es posten?
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yeah, I feel like in movies a lot of times that's the giveaway is they'll be like, well, you don't have any credit history and I really can't find anything about you. But if you've got a list of... Kabelbillen und eine Kreditgeschichte und Sachen, die zehn Jahre zurückgehen. Es ist so, dass nur deine ID nicht genug ist, wenn du eine Geschichte hast, die bereits gebaut ist.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ich meine, dieser Kerl war 2013 ein Künstler namens Curtis Wallen, der eine Art Performance-Arte als Projekt gemacht hat. He created an alter ego and he got a driver's license. He got an ID certifying him as a member of an indigenous Native American tribe. He got a boat operator's license. That's kind of a deep cut, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yeah, for a decade. Exactly. He got insurance. Like, if you have all this stuff, then all of a sudden you're just not as suspicious, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, und natürlich, wie du gesagt hast, ist Photoshop in diesen Tagen sehr einfach mit AI gemacht, viel schneller. Klar.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, das ist richtig. Dieses neue Photoshop-Ding ist unglaublich, ist es nicht?
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Jemand wird schreiben und sagen, Photoshop wurde 1997 erschaffen. Es war wahrscheinlich tatsächlich. Yeah, probably somewhere in the 90s. He also, the way he started all this was created an email address. You know, it seems pretty logical. He used the private Tor browser and he got in touch with someone on Craigslist anonymously and said, I want to buy this computer, I want to pay cash.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Cash, as you'll see, is a big part of all this.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Anytime you want to do this, have a lot of cash on hand. We're not instructing you on how to do this.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
It is. And again, if you're doing something like this, you've either, Du bist entweder eine schlechte Person, die etwas falsch gemacht hat, oder du hattest etwas, was dir sehr falsch gemacht wurde, was sehr traurig ist. Also, wiederum, wir machen uns nicht vor. Aber er hat das Computer mit Geld gekauft. Er hat sich so ausgestattet, als er sich kennengelernt hat.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Und dann hat er mehr Geld gebraucht, um ein Bitcoin zu kaufen, in einem Computershop, wie ein Brick-und-Mortar-Store. Genau. Also, Bitcoin ist offensichtlich, du weißt, Wenn du Heldungen oder so hast, die du zu Bitcoin oder Cash konvertieren willst, ist es eine bessere Art, das zu machen, als das in deinem Namen zu haben. Aber das ist in diesen Tagen sehr schwierig.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Alles kann jetzt so viel einfacher getrackt und getrackt werden. Ja.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, oder es versucht haben und es verfehlt haben, aber nicht getroffen wurden.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
That is Bush League, right? 20s and 100s will be fine. Just put it in this garbage sack.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, ich meine, wir haben ein paar Wege gelistet, wie man getroffen werden kann. Es scheint, dass die Art und Weise, wie die meisten Menschen getroffen werden, wenn sie eine Pseudokide versuchen, ist, mit jemandem aus ihrer vorherigen Leben in Kontakt zu kommen. Ja.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Wenn das die Art von Sache ist, die du machen willst, musst du, und das ist auch so, wie es in den Filmen spielt, ich fühle mich, du musst dich wirklich, wirklich zu diesem Thema verabschieden. und entscheidet, ich werde nie wieder meine Kinder sehen, oder ich werde nie wieder meine Mutter an ihrem Geburtstag anrufen, oder irgendetwas.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Du musst komplett von diesem Leben weggehen, weil, vor allem, ich habe es nochmals nicht gesagt, in diesen Tagen ist es sehr einfach, E-Mails und Telefonanrufe zu tracken und alles andere, und es wird sehr einfach sein, wenn du an deinem Geburtstag eine Mutter anrufst, nur eine letzte Zeit, ein Jahr nachdem du tot bist.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Wie du sagst, es gibt drei Tronche.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Nein, aber ja, das ist einer, den du wahrscheinlich nicht denken würdest.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yeah, but again, I'm not going to feel too bad about giving semi-instruction here, because believe it or not, it's not a crime. Usually stuff you do to get away with this is a crime. It could be, and let's just put like insurance fraud aside, that may be the reason you're doing it, but
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
No, but you're the Tronchmaster.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Die eigentliche Tätigkeit, die Tätigkeit, die Tätigkeit, die Tätigkeit, die Tätigkeit, die Tätigkeit, die Tätigkeit, Und dann, wenn du eine neue Identität nimmst, dann ist das eine Identitätsverwaltung. Selbst wenn du nicht, es ist keine Identitätsverwaltung, was anders ist, selbst wenn du nicht jemand anderes Identität steckst, wie Don, naja, ich werde nicht etwas von einem TV-Show spoilern. Oh.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Weil es 2008 ist, habe ich es fast ausgeschnitten, aber ich will das nicht tun. Don Johnson von Miami Vice? Ja, klar, lass uns das einfach so sagen. Alles, was er hat, war Don. Okay. Uh, like stealing someone's identity, like, let's say, like you were in the army with, or, yeah, well, let's go ahead and ruin the Simpsons. Uh, Principal Skinner did that, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Uh, you know, my favorite, my favorite line from that episode.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
What if it's the same line? Wouldn't that be funny? It is. Do you think it is? Uh-huh. Go ahead. With, uh, the superintendent or whatever? Uh-huh. Er sagt, er möchte unsere neue Prinzessin Seymour Skinner vorstellen. Prinzessin Seymour Skinner. Ja. Etwas wie das. Ja.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Das ist das, was ich gesagt habe. Das ist Identitätsverbrechen.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, oder wenn es nicht die Versicherung ist. Sicherlich, wenn du eine Verkaufsfirma oder einen Bank oder so etwas für Tens von Millionen oder vielleicht sogar Hunderten von Millionen von Dollar verdient hast. Genau.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Well, I mean, one of them I listed, get out of a personal relationship. I mean, I was kind of joking about Jerry, but... Es wäre wahrscheinlich eher so, wenn es ein Film ist, obwohl das in der Realität passiert, ich will meine Familie verlassen. Sie sind so furchtbar. Ja, und eine neue Familie mit dieser neuen Familie erstellen, die all meine Probleme lösen wird. Das ist so, wie es funktioniert.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Richtig. Das ist richtig, weil das war, als er am meisten populär war.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yeah, I understand. Happens to all of us in a long relationship.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yeah, let's take a break and maybe we'll dive into what an insurance company might do to find you. How about that?
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Es scheint, dass das Allergrößte wahrscheinlich eine finanzielle Sache ist. Du hast entweder eine große Schuld, die du versorgen willst, Or you're trying to commit insurance fraud to get a big payout or something. Or you've embezzled from your company or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yes, I guess we could start talking a little bit about what might like What might trigger this as far as an insurance company saying like, all right, we definitely need to use our own resources here, aside from cops saying that they're not going to help out much.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
And that is, the first trigger is, if your policy has a payout over a million bucks, they'll be like, all right, that's worth our time and money.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yeah, so Mr. Clark, no, his was just $999,999,99. That's exactly right. Brush that one aside. Forget about it.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, du hast die Philippinen als die größte rote Flagge erwähnt, aber wirklich jede Begründung, die einen Tod in einem fremden Land betrifft, wird beurteilt, nur um die Augen zu schließen und die Tee zu schließen. Vielleicht sind sie ein bisschen bescheuert, aber es wird definitiv beurteilt.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Und auch, wenn du alles, einfach alles in meine PO-Box schicken willst, das ist eine ziemlich große rote Flagge.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yeah, here's a pretty good one that I didn't think about. If they'll look up their their insurance client or whatever, they'll be like, hmm, this is weird. Josh Clark went and picked up a year's worth of his heart medication all at once. And then right after that, I went to visit one of his relatives that he hasn't visited in a decade. So this sounds a little shady to me.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
I know, it would burst out of your chest otherwise.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yeah, if I were to do this, I guarantee no one would find me. No, because you wouldn't do it like you're lazy. I could disappear into another country quite well, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
So if I just went, well, I'm not going to say the country, just in case I want to keep it in my head pocket.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, sicher. Du willst auch nicht... Es gibt viele E-Mistaken, die du machen kannst, wie elektronische Fehler, ob es um Telefon-Stuffe geht oder um dich von einem Internet-Café in den Philippinen zu googeln. Das könnte dich verletzen.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Oh, ich habe mir das nicht gedacht, wenn du einen kompletten, wenn du bekannt bist für sein, was auch immer, wie ein MAGA-Republikaner und du eine neue Identität als dieser progressiven Liberalen adoptierst, ist das wahrscheinlich ein ziemlich smarter Schritt.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yeah. What else? Chuck, anything? I mean, those are all the things that would trigger an insurance investigation.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yeah, it totally sounds sausagey. Yeah, so she was reported missing, right, in 1984. She was 24 at the time, I think you said. And at a certain point, police got a guy that confessed to her murder. So that was like a case closed kind of situation, even though the body wasn't found. And the guy later said, I actually did not kill her. He recanted his confession.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
So she was declared dead, dead, dead about five years later in 89 and lived quite a while with a sort of hidden identity.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, also sie sagten Guten Tag und sie sind weg, glaube ich.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, und es gibt auch andere Fälle, wo die Polizei in der Interview oder so herausgefunden hat, warum und das nicht dem Publikum veröffentlicht hat. Es ist wahrscheinlich eine wirklich traurige Situation. Und ich habe Polizeistatements gesehen, wo sie gesagt haben, wir hatten ein Interview und wir verstehen, warum das geschah, aber es gab keine Verbrechen und warum es geschah, ist nichts.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
No, no, no. I wasn't talking about this one.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Totally. I'll mention this one. This guy, Sam Israel III, he was a hedge fund...
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
manager and he was you know this is one of those deals where he stole 300 million dollars was sentenced to prison a couple of decades in prison so it was one of those back up against the wall i'm going to jail and i'm in debt up to my eyeballs now or i guess that even wouldn't count as debt anymore once you're going to prison that's just you know you were found out sure Das ist so furchtbar.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, sicher. Sehr traurig ist natürlich einer der Gründe, dass man mit dem Gegner schläft, indem man versucht, eine gewaltige Situation in seinem Zuhause zu vermeiden, ob es ein Schwester oder ein Familienmitglied ist oder so etwas. Richtig.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Das ist ziemlich furchtbar, aber ich glaube, das ist da, um Leute zu fangen, glaube ich. Also, er ging zu dieser sehr spezifischen Brücke für diesen Grund und die Sicherheitskameras fangen ihn, literally, in einem anderen Auto, in einem SUV, auf, und es war wie, du weißt, der Geräusch war aus, aber ich bin sicher, sie hörten wie, wuhu, wir haben es geschafft.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Und sie hongerten ihre Hörer und sie haben sich mit seiner Freundin getroffen, sie haben sie als möglichen Angehörigen verhaftet. He was on the most wanted list because it was pretty clear what had happened at that point. And he got found out because he called his mom.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yeah, you did not do that. Here's some other advice. If you do this, don't go out to dinner to celebrate the next night. Because a few people get caught at dinner, it seems like.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ich glaube, es ist nicht lustig, aber der Film, ich meine, ich glaube, der Novel, ich glaube nicht, dass der Film noch rausgekommen ist. Day of the Jackal von Frederick Forsythe wurde ein paar Jahre vorher publiziert. Und es scheint, dass er die Schritte gefolgt hat, um eine falsche Identität aus dem Buch zu erhalten.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja. Ich wähle noch einen für mich. 2009 war ein Mann in seinen Mitte 30er-Jahren aus Indianapolis, ein Geldmanager namens Markus Schrenker. Er hat einen Flugangriff gestartet. He was trying to get out of lawsuits and divorce proceedings. And he got a bunch of cash, put it in his motorcycle saddlebags, went to Alabama, put it in a storage facility. So he had the cash kind of worked out.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Then he took his very small little single prop airplane from his house in Indiana. And was flying above Alabama, radios to air traffic control that, you know, he's going down, something's wrong. He does a DB Cooper, he parachutes out, the plane crashes in Florida. And the next day he emails his friend and tells him what he did.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yeah, we should probably close by talking about another kind of pseudocide, which is a faked online death. It's usually not like an insurance fraud or anything like that, but it's a symptom of what they used to call Munchausen-Syndrome. And now they call it FD or factitious disorder. Again, previously Munchausen-Syndrome, where you will try and get...
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Es ist eine Begegnung zu einer mentalen Krankheit, aber es ist eine Veränderung, in der man versucht, Sympathie zu bekommen, indem man krank spielt oder krank verweist oder manchmal reale Symptome von etwas hat, aber man nicht krank ist. Und das geht einen Schritt weiter, um diese Art der Aufmerksamkeit, die man braucht, oder was auch immer man braucht, durch einen Online-Mord zu verweilen.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Und das ist in einigen sehr hochprofilen Fällen passiert.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, ich erinnere mich daran. Es war in der Zeit ziemlich groß in den Berichten. Denn es war eine Donau der Internetseite. Die Leute fragten sich, wofür die Internetseite bereits genutzt wird. Einige ihrer Follower sahen vorher einige hinkige Dinge in ihren Geschichten. Einige von den medizinischen Sachen machten nicht wirklich viel Sinn, wie die Leukämie weitergeht.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, unser Boss kommt zu uns und sagt, dass es Leute gibt, die Commercials auf unseren Podcasts stellen wollen. Und wir sagen, nein, warum würden wir das jemals machen?
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Und dann würde sie wahrscheinlich ein paar Song-Lyrics zitieren, die nicht von ihrer Generation waren, was nicht das größte Geschenk ist. Du kannst Musik von jeder Generation hören, aber es ist nur schädlich genug, kombiniert mit den anderen Dingen, die waren wie, warum zitiert dieser Teenager Songs aus den 60ern, alle von uns, du weißt, überall.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, ich erinnere mich total daran. Das ist ein sehr großes Problem. Sie war ein selbst publizierter Romanzautor. Und sie hatte, du weißt, eine gute Forderung auf Facebook. Und 2020, in der Stimme ihrer Tochter, postete sie, dass ihre Mutter durch Suizid gestorben war, nachdem sie in der Buchwelt verletzt wurde.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Und es war ein sehr großes Problem. Es war eine sehr schockierende Erklärung, dass, du weißt, diese Frau verletzt wurde. Sie wurde schmerzhaft verabschiedet. Die Schriftführer waren alle auf den Arm und sagten, das ist das, was online verabschiedet werden kann. Was wirklich schmerzt, ist, dass das absolut das ist, was online verabschiedet werden kann. Aber diese Frau war lügend.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ihre Tochter hat weitergegeben, oder in Schreckwörtern, ihre Tochter hat weitergegeben, dass sie den Account verabschiedet hat. Someone pointed out that they recognized a little quirk in her writing was that Meechan would say instead of supposed to, she would type post to, P-O-S-T-O, like I'm supposed to do this.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Exactly. And that little quirk, writing as her daughter, gave it away.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, das ist wahr. Und hier ist das Ding. Wenn du diese Art von Dough hast, ich meine, dich zu verletzen und deinen eigenen Tod zu verweilen, ist nicht günstig, wie wir sehen. Also ist es definitiv mehr normal für Leute, die gute Mittel haben, diese Art von Ding zu probieren. Zuerst einmal, sie haben vielleicht das Geld, es auszupassen, weil es teuer ist, es wirklich richtig zu machen, diese Tage.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
This is about libraries a little bit more. Hey guys, as you mentioned in the recent short stuff on alt libraries, I wanted to mention this. In 1901, Andrew Carnegie funded the construction of dozens of libraries in all five boroughs of New York City. And most of these buildings came with a family apartment, which housed the custodian who kept the coal fire burning, the furnace.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
As the furnaces were replaced and the custodians retired, the apartments sat empty. Some of the apartments are still intact, while some have been converted into storage, mechanical rooms, or, as is the case in the library where I work, a teen center. I thought you might be interested in this little slice of New York City and library history. There are about 30 Carnegie branches left in Manhattan.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
The Bronx and Staten Island and the city is slowly working their way through renovations to modernize each location. Next time you're in New York, come check us out. Wrapped, spanked, delivered. Nice. I'm yours. That is Madeline Lovegrove, Children's Librarian at the 125th Street New York Public Library.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
She sent a link and it had pictures, my friend.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Oder wenn du die Art von Person bist, die jemanden oder eine Firma von Millionen und Millionen von Dollar verlassen hat, das setzt dich in eine gewisse Liga. Ich habe nie die Möglichkeit gehabt, so etwas zu tun, zum Beispiel.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yeah, that makes sense with just the risky sort of, you know, maybe they got into that hot water because, you know, this deal that just couldn't be resisted or whatever because it's so much money, bro.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Hier ist eine andere interessante Sache, es ist mehr normal, um Menschen in die Vereinigten Staaten zu kommen, um eine Sicherheitspolitik zu sammeln, wenn du aus einem anderen Land bist und dann einfach zurück in dein Heimatland gehst.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Und wie wir sehen, ist es um, es ist viel häufiger für die Versicherungsfirma, jemanden zu holen, um dich zu finden, anstatt die Polizisten nach dir zu kommen, weil die Polizisten sind wie, naja, du weißt, sicher keine Haut auf meinem Rücken. Das ist richtig. Und die Versicherungsfirma ist wie, naja, sie haben nur Millionen von uns, also werden wir, wir werden deinen Job machen. Genau.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, und sie hat eigentlich einen Teil des Prozesses durchgeführt, um es durchzuführen, um zu sehen, wie hart oder einfach oder teuer es war, es zu schreiben. Sie hat es nicht durchgeführt, aber sie hat es so weit geführt, um herauszufinden, wo das ist. Weißt du, wenn du etwas Ungewöhnliches wie dieses sprichst, scheint es immer so zu sein, dass du zu diesem Ort gehen musst.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Weil sie den Markt auf dem Markt gecornert haben. Ob es Swiss Bank Accounts oder Offshore-Accounts sind. Sie haben es aufgebaut, damit man dieses Kind von Sachen machen kann. Und anscheinend ist das Ort für Pseudokide die Philippinen. Ja.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, ich meine, es ist wie bei jedem Service. Sie sagen, wenn Sie nur das Burschzertifikat wollen, können Sie das für ein paar hundert Franken bekommen. Aber das wird wahrscheinlich nicht genug sein in diesen Tagen. In den alten Tagen war das wahrscheinlich alles, was Sie brauchten. Es war viel einfacher, sich mit diesem Thema zu entfernen.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
But if you really want to, you know, go through with like the second tier service, you can get like a kit that may have a new identity for you. You could have like a new passport in there, a new birth certificate, maybe something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Or if you really want to go with like the deluxe package, you can spend, you know, tens of thousands of dollars to get some, like almost like concierge service for someone who's like, I can erase your tracks. I can make it like you were never here. I can make sure you don't get caught.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
I can get people to we can cook up a story and I can get witnesses to testify that they saw this car wreck and pulled your body out of the wreckage. And, you know, we know people that work in morgues and hospitals. And if you want to pay the money, we can really, really do this thing right.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
You want a dead body? I can get you a dead body by 3 p.m.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Okay, jetzt weiß ich, wo wir das gemacht haben. Wir haben ein Video über das gemacht. Oh, ja? Ja, ich wusste, dass wir etwas gemacht haben, aber ich habe den Podcast aufgeschaut und wir haben etwas gemacht. Wir haben eine Art Video gemacht, weil es vielleicht nur um das Coffee County-Ding konzentriert ist.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Well, Jerry may have engaged in pseudocide because she's so tired of working with us. Yeah. And she didn't want to tell us. Yeah. That's one reason somebody might want to get out of their life or, you know, not for real, but that's what pseudocide is, it's faking your own death.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Weil sobald du Coffee County gesagt hast, war ich so, warte, da war ein Typ da, der das gemacht hat. Also ja, es ist 2008.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Oh, großartig. Hier ist meine Frage, aber... Die Idee ist, dass du dieses Körper bekommst und es kremiert und du diese menschlichen Erwachsenen oder Kremate ausfährst. Aber wie funktioniert das mit DNA? Wenn das der Fall ist, warum kannst du nicht nur Kremate bekommen?
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Ja, und wiederum, wenn ich meine, wenn du versuchst, eine Verschuldung zu verurteilen oder so etwas, das wird die Investitionen-Praktik am meisten sicherlich von der Verschuldungskompanie, vielleicht von den Polizisten, abhängig davon, was da los ist. Und natürlich, wenn du die Gerechtigkeit auslässt und so weiter.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Aber wenn das nicht das ist, was du tust, wenn du nur versucht hast, aus deiner Leben zu kommen, für irgendeinen schmerzhaften Grund vielleicht. Und besonders, wenn du in ein anderes Land gehst und das tust. Die Staatsanwaltschaft in Amerika wird wahrscheinlich nichts tun. No, they're gonna say Godspeed. Because it's not a crime, specifically.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
And maybe we should take a break and that sounds like a good place to leave it, eh? I agree. Alright, we'll be right back after this with more on Pseudocide.
Stuff You Should Know
Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why?
Yeah, like she couldn't bring herself to tell us, so she's like, well, maybe I could just disappear.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
He lived there for about a decade. And... But when you put all this together and then also bring in tourists, because don't forget, this is a hotel that some people are living in for decades, but there's also people coming and going. And then you also throw in rich people who are basically just trying to hang out with avant-garde artists, even though they have no artistic talent themselves.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
It's just the crowd they want to hang with. You put all these people together and you've got like who you would see if you went into the Chelsea Hotel.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff You Should Know, the super cool edition. Another edition in our ongoing New York saga to explain every single building or theme or trend in the entire city of New York.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
I love Chelsea. I think that is one of my favorite neighborhoods in New York, if not my favorite. We stayed there a bunch of times when we went and visited New York.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Okay, so I said earlier that the Chelsea Hotel was in capable hands for decades, and those hands were initially David Bard, and then after that, his son Stanley Bard. And between the two of them, they took Philip Hubert's vision of the socialist utopia, but really the really artsy part of it, and just went to town. I saw it described as Stanley curated who lived in the Chelsea Hotel.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
It wasn't like, hey, I've got some money. I want to live here. You basically had to be vouched for by another avant-garde artist that probably already lived there. That was a good way to get in.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
I have, too. Oh, yeah? Yeah. But that actually answers a question that I had. I was trying to figure out where you came up with this as a topic. I would have guessed the Taylor Swift song, The Tortured Poets Department, because she mentions it in there. That's, I guess, not what inspired you to do this.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah, so apparently Milos Forman, a true bohemian, he lived at the Chelsea from, I think, for the early 70s, about the first half of the 70s. And he asked Stanley once if anyone had ever died. I believe to basically get him to admit.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Because there were a lot of deaths, whether it was by suicide, murder, mattress fires, overdoses. Yeah. And it was just well known that there were a lot of deaths that happened in the Chelsea Hotel. So Milos Forman asked Stanley once if he could think of anybody who ever died there. And he could only come up with one person. And he was a painter named Alpheus Cole.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
He died in 1988, the oldest man in the world at 112. He died at the Chelsea Hotel. And that's the one person that Stanley could think of in the entire time that he was running the Chelsea Hotel.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah. Yeah, it was cool. Like you could get away with, from what I saw, you could get away with basically anything up to murder, essentially. And Stanley would put up with it because that was the rhythm that his father had kind of laid out.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
And if you want to cultivate an avant-garde artist colony in the middle of New York, you're going to have to do that or else just give up because it's not going to work otherwise. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah. Which I don't know who those people were. Yeah. I saw Matt as a hatter used more times in the oral history of the Chelsea Hotel than I ever have anywhere else.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
So my favorite Arthur Miller quote, by the way, is these pretzels are making me thirsty. It's a great one.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
So he references another song on the same album that he wrote.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
No. Yeah, gotcha. But yeah, that was pretty seminal. I mean, that's one of his biggest albums, right? And I saw that at the time, too, that Bob Dylan and Andy Warhol went basically head-to-head over E.D. Sedgwick. who also stayed at the Chelsea Hotel. And apparently that was the end of Andy Warhol and Edie Sedgwick's red-hot... I don't know what you'd call it. Not a romance, just... Interaction?
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Relationship, sure. We'll just go with that. But it was something other than that. And it lasted less than a year. But apparently, Andy Warhol was so jealous that Edie Sedgwick had become totally obsessed with Bob Dylan, who may or may not have returned her advances. It just depends on who you ask. Bob Dylan says no. But Andy Warhol lost that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Because Bob Dylan was at the time like basically the biggest person in like alternative culture, the counterculture at the time. Like even more than Andy Warhol was. Like he was just huge. And it's kind of difficult to overstate what a big deal this very big person was doing living and working in the Chelsea Hotel. Like what it did for the Chelsea Hotel's reputation. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Right. No. Another really famous thing that happened around that time was from Edie Sedgwick. She set her mattress on fire.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Was it on purpose? Because this was not her first apartment fire.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Okay. So it's possible this is a very turbulent time for her. She could have been heartbroken over Bob Dylan. She could have been upset Andy Warhol had turned his back on her. I know the previous apartment fire in a different building was because she had shot up a speedball and the cigarette fell out of her mouth and onto her mattress and set her house on fire.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
I guess so. Yeah. But that kind of leads me to something. There's something that just doesn't show up in the histories. I mean, here or there, it kind of comes up. But I think it's really understated the effect that it had on the community that developed in the Chelsea Hotel from the entire time that the building was open. And that is drugs, drugs, drugs, drugs, drugs, drugs.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
So everybody from Sarah Bernhardt, the French actress, to Bob Dylan and beyond. I wouldn't put it beyond Ethan Hawke.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah. So, I mean, the club kids, like with the capital C and the capital K in the 80s and 90s, like some of them lived there and they were definitely doing drugs. It was just a really big part of the experience of living at the Chelsea Hotel. It was like essentially one of the muses that was walking around the halls of that building all the time.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Uh, how about some more famous stuff that happened there, huh?
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah. He wrote about that in Chelsea Hotel No. 2, one of his songs, a very famous song. So they were together from 68 to 70 when Janice died. I don't know if they were like an item or if they just, you know, liked hanging out, if you know what I mean. Sure.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
But regardless, they were just a famous couple from there. Yeah, that's not the right word. I'm having trouble pulling words out of the air. Another couple that you could probably call more of a couple was Patti Smith and Robert Mapplethorpe. They moved into the Chelsea. They were totally broke at the time. Patti Smith became like the poet of the punk scene.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Robert Mapplethorpe famously became the devil incarnate with his photos.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
That's one way to put it, sure, of BDSM culture and gay culture in the 80s and almost got the National Endowments for the Arts canceled. Although I think it's unfair to say it was him. Jesse Helms almost got the NEA canceled. And it was Robert Mapplethorpe was just making art. And Jesse Helms just did not think a bullwhip coming out of a man's rectum was art.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
No, I do. I love Jimi Hendrix. And clearly I love at least Jefferson Starship.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
That's right. And I spent at least one summer just listening to Janis Joplin's greatest hits over and over again. So I could be down with that scene, man.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Well, yeah, and that's great that they did a good job with it because people all the way back to the 1940s with Edgar Lee Masters, the poet, author of Spoon River Anthology, who lived there for a while, was worried about the gist of the Chelsea Hotel being stripped away by new owners. Yeah. And it's changed hands a few times, but it's also stayed in really capable hands for decades.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah. There were people who jumped out of windows. Remember, it was a 12 story building. And this is nothing new. People there was a there's a rumor of a ghost of a woman who supposedly lived there and was an artist who was upset with herself and cut off her hand. And then threw herself out the window. This would have been in the first couple of decades of the 20th century.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
But it didn't stop with her. It just kept going and going and going. And then even if someone didn't die by suicide or wasn't murdered or their place wasn't set on fire. Just the day-to-day grimy grittiness of it, of heroin addicts like shooting up in the bathrooms or sex workers like washing their underwear in the bathrooms.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
That was another quote from the oral history of all places that Vanity Fair had on the Chelsea Hotel. Um, like there was just a, a definite dark side to it, which was, I just kind of underscores what I was saying before that people were like, and I felt so safe there. And it was like, what was it like outside of this building? If this was what it was like inside, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
There's a biographer, author named Phil Strongman or Strongman. I would call myself Phil Strongman if that were my name. But he wrote a punk, a punk nonfiction book, I guess, called Pretty Vacant. And he points to Rockets Red Glare, who was a bodyguard for the Sex Pistols at the time, who was the last person known to have seen Nancy Spungen alive.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
And there was also supposedly a bunch of money, cash, in the apartment that couldn't be accounted for after her body was discovered. Yeah. He makes a pretty good case. Apparently also Rockets Red Glare was admitted to it later on to some people. So who knows? But I don't think it was Sid Vicious.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah, because he was the only person in the history of the hotel who actually wanted milk at one point.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
So, you know something about him? I've become more and more of a fan over the years. I think he's really kind of grown into his talent.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
And those capable hands, as we'll see, helped give the Chelsea Hotel its very famous vibe.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
So you mentioned that the Chelsea Hotel underwent renovations for a long time, over a decade from what I saw. The whole thing started when Stanley Bard was forced out back in 2007 or 2008. I saw both. Um, remember that his father, David Bard had purchased the Chelsea with two other families, two other men. Well, their heirs were basically like, you are not, um, making money here.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Like he was very, Stanley was very famous for accepting art in lieu of rent. If you were hard, you know, down on your luck, uh, but you were an artist, like he would just, you know, look the other way for a few months. Like he was not running it like a business and he was very open about that. So apparently the heirs of the other two owners were like, you need to get out.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
We have two thirds of a vote and you're out. And that was when things just kind of, yeah, big bummer. Things just started to change because a few years after that, they sold it to some investors. I think that was in 2011. They sold it for $80 million. The investors came in, fired all of the staff because they were union and brought in non-union workers. They did away with,
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
basically everything that was cool and intangible about the place. And they also took down all the art. Like one of the things Stanley did was hang art by the artists who'd lived there all throughout the place. It was just laden with art. They took all of it off the walls, put it in storage, apparently some that wasn't Stanley's or that wasn't the hotel's too.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
The Larry Rivers Foundation is suing to get one of his paintings back that they say was just on loan. And from that point on, it just became kind of ham-fisted and not very pleasant for the people who lived there in the Chelsea area.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah, which is pretty cool that they're still there. They're also rent-controlled, I believe, which is how they're able to still stay there.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Well, you know, you bring that up. I thought that, too. You and me and I stayed there a couple of times over the years. We did the most avant-garde thing you can do. We stayed at the Chelsea Hotel when we went to see comedian Tom Rhodes at the Gotham Comedy Club next door.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah, he's super underground. But, I mean, I totally get that feeling that you're talking about where it's just like, this was something and now is this like the dolled up version? Like kind of the fake Disney-fied version of what it used to be. And that leads me to a question that I had throughout researching this, Chuck. Where is... Whatever the Chelsea Hotel was now, where is it?
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
I don't think it's in New York anymore. I don't think something like that can survive in New York because it's just gotten so wealthy and wealthy and wealthy. And wealthiness is not really – it doesn't really jibe with what the Chelsea Hotel was in its heyday. So – Like, where is it? Is it somewhere else in the world? Is it in Kansas? Like, where did this go?
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
I really want to know who's doing really interesting, cool work these days. Where can you find it or is it just not around?
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah. So based on what we'll learn about what went on in the Chelsea Hotel, I think it's very telling how dangerous New York was at the time that almost to a person when they interviewed residents years later, they say they felt safe in the Chelsea Hotel. And the Chelsea Hotel was as crazy as a place could get.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah. I mean, look what happened to San Francisco. Like, it lost a lot of its... Oh, yeah. I don't want to say luster because it wasn't luster that that made it so charming, but it lost some of its jam.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Oh, I mean, also not just like people living there. I mean like the art, the art, the artistic vibe that was there. Where did that go? Cause it's not like that stuff dies, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Well, that's it for the Chelsea Hotel. We could keep going on and on and on. But I feel like this is a good place to stop, don't you?
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Cool. Thank you for figuring that out because I could not make heads or tails of how the sign was restored, but then they auctioned off the sign.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Pretty cool. Okay, well, that's it. That's it for Chelsea Hotel. If you want to know more about the Chelsea Hotel, go check out the Chelsea Hotel. And since I said Chelsea Hotel three times, as was foretold in 2008, I've unlocked listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
And yet it just goes to show you how much more dangerous it was outside of the Chelsea Hotel in New York at the time.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah, that's really cool. I'm glad Emily's delighted. Yeah. I'm delighted, too. Me, too. Well, if you want to be like Lauren and write in and let us know that you're a part of a club, too, well, we'd love to hear that kind of stuff. You can send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
So Hubert actually followed Fourier's vision and turned the Chelsea into not just a co-op, but an attempted socialist utopian paradise where it wasn't just for the wealthy. It was, I think, I don't know if you said it or not, it was one of the tallest buildings in New York at the time. So it was a very...
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
tony address when the building opened and yet he said apartments aside for some of the people who had built the building like some of the electricians if there was such thing at the time uh some of the plumbers some of the carpenters like they had shares they were able to live in this co-op because there was room made for them and there was also room made for artists and musicians and writers.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Oh, I thought it was I heart New York. Is that what that means? Yeah. I get it now.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
And the point was for everybody to kind of rely on one another. So if you needed plumbing help, you could pay your plumber in a painting or something like that if your plumber would accept it. Everybody was meant to depend on everyone else and be kind of self-sufficient as a unit.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah. And so the rooms also apparently were fairly cheap, especially for a luxury place, a luxury building. So if you were an up-and-coming or starving artist, you could still probably afford a place there. And because it was created to house artists and talent of all different kinds, it was automatically attractive. It was...
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
It just kind of became a place where art was created, not just a place where artists could live. There was a longtime Chelsea resident named Harry Smith, who I saw described as the archetypal bohemian trickster figure. And he's just Chelsea Hotel through and through from what I could tell.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
He said that the hotel exuded atmospheric vibrations that attracted artists and also helped produce great art. So like the building itself and the vibe that was in it led to better art than maybe would have otherwise been produced, at least according to Harry Smith, who was a trickster, apparently. So he might have been lying.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
It is a very cool city, and this is a cool place in the city's history for a long part of the city's history, actually. The Chelsea Hotel, which little known fact, is actually supposed to be called the Hotel Chelsea. And I could not find who first turned it around because surely it was a poet or a singer or something, a writer.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah, for sure. For sure. I think some people, though, I'm not going to name names, but I think over time, some artists who stayed there have wanted to kind of capture what that hotel does and maybe bit off a little more than they could chew.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
I think you should have a second thought or two if you're like, I'm going to make an ode to the Chelsea Hotel where there's a song, a movie, it doesn't matter.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah, which is pretty cool that they opened their doors to them. I'm sure other hotels did too, but I thought that was neat.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
And we should say these artists that were staying here, O. Henry was hiding from creditors. when he stayed there. John French Sloan, he was a member of the Ashcan School of Art, which made its name by showing some of the grittier, more dismal side of New York life, which is totally contrary to the zeitgeist. And so the artists were avant-garde.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Basically, throughout the entire history of the Chelsea Hotel, the artists working there were like the vanguard of the avant-garde. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah, I saw that somebody said he ran out into the street one night at like 3 a.m. and shouted that he'd written 10,000 words in one day.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
That's pretty substantial. And Thomas Wolfe, also not to be confused with Tom Wolfe.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
He was an influence in his own right. He influenced the Beats, mainly through Jack Kerouac. He influenced the New Journalists. So ironically, Thomas Wolfe influenced Tom Wolfe. Yeah. And in fact, there's a story that fear and loathing from fear and loathing in Las Vegas and at the Kentucky Derby that Hunter Thompson took that from a Thomas Wolfe story.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
No, he might be undoable. You know how, remember the time we did that live show? It was the worst idea where we did how humor works. And we realized partway through in front of a live audience that explaining humor is like the least funny thing you can do. I don't remember that. Was that like a tour show or was that like for a... It was a pod fest. Was it really? Yeah, in L.A. Years back.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
But at some point it got basically transversed, even though the official name is and always has been, since it was a hotel, the Hotel Chelsea Hotel.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah, and he's the guy I was saying earlier who wrote Spoon River Anthology that was worried about it losing its vibe.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yep. So this was the 40s. I'm guessing this was 1943 when it changed hands, I think, for the first or second time and was finally turned into the Hotel Chelsea. But he had very little to worry about because it got even more avant-garde after that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Yeah, I read that on the day that he fell into a coma that eventually he died from. He said, I've had 18 straight whiskeys. I think that's the record. It's got to be.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
So yeah, Dylan Thomas was one of the ones whose death really kind of, I don't quite know how to put it, but there's certain aspects of the Chelsea Hotel and tragic figures dying in it is part of that. That's an aspect of it in and of itself. And Dylan Thomas kind of set the tone for that, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Immortalized maybe? Sure. So he he became he helped make the Chelsea Hotel famous in that respect by dying as a tragic figure there. Other people are just kind of famous. And because they stayed in the Chelsea Hotel, it kind of gives it a little more props like Jackson Pollock. He lived there for a little while. Little known fact, the CIA paid his rent. Oh, really? No, I'm kidding.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Virgil, have you ever heard the theory that the CIA was behind the abstract expressionist movements to make the United States seem more intellectual to the Soviets?
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
Wait, wait, wait. You want to talk confusing? There's a Marriott Renaissance Chelsea Hotel in the same neighborhood. I mean, I could see myself accidentally booking that and being like, this place is a little more put together than I expected.
Stuff You Should Know
The Chelsea Hotel
OK. For falling for it. So there are other people, too, that you may not have heard of that I hadn't heard of that were longtime residents that really kind of gave it like legitimacy. There was a music critic and composer named Virgil Thompson. who was apparently just incredibly prolific. He lived there for 50 years and died in room 920. Larry Rivers, he's considered the godfather of pop art.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Right. And we'll get into that a little more in a minute, but just kind of progressing on with his early career. He essentially, not just his singing voice, but his stage presence, his presence was monumental. But also he used his movements and sometimes props and stuff on the stage to kind of tell the story that this folk song was trying to tell.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
So his act was just a sensation, like basically out of the gate. And he very quickly got picked up and put onto Broadway, this time from the stage. And the first thing I think he was in was John Murray Anderson's Almanac, which was a musical review in 1953. And he did such a good job that his first time out, he wins a Tony. Not only does he win a Tony, he's the first black man to win a Tony.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Okay. All right. Okay. I like that. If you have any ideas to freshen it up ever, you know, lay them on me. All right. Let's see. We're coming up on year 17. Just want to point that out.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Let's take a little break and we'll come back and talk a little more about his Calypso stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Uh, and, uh, today also we are talking about Harry Belafonte and, uh, part of the reason why, but not the full reason why, because this is, he was a perennial man, a man of all seasons, but it's black history month. So we wanted to profile him at least in part for black history month.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Okay, Chuck, so we're talking Calypso now. It's really, really difficult to understate, like... How big of a star Harry Belafonte became thanks to Calypso music? Calypso music is like this traditional Caribbean music, typically folk songs, work songs. Call and response is a big one. So the people in the chorus seeing like daylight come and we want to go home.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
That's like the response where Harry Belafonte singing the call part. Right. It's just traditional work song stuff. Come on. And so he starts out this whole jam where he is playing folk music at the Village Vanguard, goes on to Broadway, starts singing some of this folk, like Caribbean folk music. And within a couple of years, he's on an NBC show.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
doing the same thing and um dave helped us out with this and he makes a point that had it not been for a guy an artist who went by lord burgess but his real name was irving bergy irving purgy who was also a caribbean american who was raised in new york also being into calypso at the same exact time and then meeting harry belafonte and them collaborating It probably would not have taken off.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
But thanks to Lord Burgess and then a playwright friend of Harry Belafonte's named William Attaway working together, rewriting some of these traditional songs, rearranging them to make them peppier, a little poppier.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Like they made Calypso like they just they made it way more palatable to Americans and way more dancing and just way more infectious than other people who'd recorded some of these same songs previously had.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah. I think also he was criticized by Trinidadians for being known as the king of Calypso. They're like, we have our own king of Calypso competition every year and you ain't it. And he's like, so? And they just couldn't come back with anything after that. So the whole the whole beef ended right there.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yes. That was just in the U.S. alone. It did the same thing in the U.K. And Chuck, one of the songs on this album was Deo, right?
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Deo itself sold a million copies just to the 45. So just the single, right? I can see just the single selling a million copies and then the album suffering because of that. The album continued to sell as well. It's crazy how... nuts for Harry Belafonte, the United States and other, a lot of other parts of the world too were at that time. Like he just blew up.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
You said it was number one on the charts for 38 weeks, not on the charts for 38 weeks, the number one album in the United States for, for all like the better half of a year. That's no one does that. That's crazy. Yeah.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yes, absolutely. That didn't stop him, though. It didn't discourage him. Like, he found it personally discouraging, but he didn't behave... He didn't acquiesce, basically. Yeah. One of the things he did was he took a role, and this was... very much in line with his decision-making as far as his career went, which we'll talk about a little more in a second.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
But he took a role in a movie called Island of the Sun. It's from 1957. And in it, he has an insinuated romance with a white woman, Joan Fontaine. And they don't touch. They don't kiss. There's nothing like that. The closest to a kiss that happens is they share a sip from a coconut. Like one of them takes a sip, hands it to the other one, and then she takes a sip.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
That's the closest thing to an on-screen kiss that there was. Yeah. Not close to a kid's home. But that was at the forefront of pushing the envelope as far as race relations in America went. And that's why Harry Belafonte was like, yes, give me that role. I will totally take that role.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
For sure. She was also Brando's girlfriend when they met.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Oh, man. Beyond handsome. Yeah. So, Chuck, when we were just talking about Islands in the Sun, I was saying that Harry Belafonte would totally choose a role that pushed the envelope for race relations. Not to stick it in the eye of white America, but to push things forward and just basically say black people are people, too. Let's portray them as such on the screen. OK. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
In doing that, he had to choose over and over and over again between advancing his career and standing by his values. And without missing a single opportunity, he stood by his values every time.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah, exactly. But certainly professional rivals, because almost invariably the roles that Belafonte passed on would go to Poitier, because like you said, he would take these roles.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
That's pretty cool, man. Yeah. Yeah. There's a rumor that seems fairly substantiated that he's Kylie Jenner's real father.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And he became, as a result, the ambassador of black America to white America, because these roles he was taking in the early 60s, these films were written to advance the cause of black civil rights in the United States. And Sidney Poitier is like, yes, Put me out there. Tell me what we need to do. And let's let's show these Americans that black people are people, too.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And like you said, Belafonte was like, there's just it's still missing some stuff. And like Lilies of the Field is a good example. It's from 1963. It starred Sidney Poitier. He went on to win an Oscar for it. And he plays a black man who is helping Nazi nuns hide from the communists. And the reason Belafonte passed on it is because he said that this black man has like no background, no history.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
He's not really a human. He said to Henry Louis Gates Jr. in 1996 in the New Yorker. It's a really good article. He said he didn't kiss anybody. He didn't touch anybody. He had no culture. He had no history. He had no family. He had nothing. So he was like a not even a caricature of a black person. He was like human being happens to be black. Go, you know.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And that just was not nearly enough for what Harry Belafonte was willing to take on as an actor. So he would just let these things come and go and pass on them or else he would try it, push the envelope. That thing would get canceled and he'd just move on. He never, ever went to Hollywood, you know.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah. Apparently there's a lot of a lot of swinging going on out in that neighborhood back in the day.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
On his knees or asking like they came to him and he would either pass or not based on what kind of how what how willing they were to portray black people in that film.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah. He he looked out for MLK's family during MLK's life, but also like he he funded his children's education. Yeah. He took out a huge insurance life insurance policy against MLK. And then he just was there for the family afterward. Like he he. kind of stepped in when MLK was assassinated. So he certainly walked the walk. He was at all these, you know, sit-ins and rallies and marches.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And he just was there. Like you said, he wasn't just a figurehead. He didn't just show up for the press. He didn't just write checks behind the scenes. He did it all. And, again, it just goes right back to the upbringing from his mom who taught him, like – Not only just wherever you see injustice in the world, go go fight it and try to fix it.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Like actively search every day for injustice that you can go help. And, you know, there was nothing more unjust and right in your face for an American, a black American in particular at the time than the civil rights movement.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
No, nothing like that. And actually, I'm not sure any living human knows exactly what Kylie Jenner looks like. So who's to say? Okay.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yes. So that was just huge. I mean, also, you got to credit Johnny Carson, too. He did that on purpose. He wasn't like, I'm going on vacation for a week. Just call whoever. Like, he did that on purpose because he was trying to advance race relations as well. So hats off to him for that as well. They also had really high ratings. That was another thing, too.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Harry Belafonte, when he did something on TV, it drew viewers. And even still, it didn't matter because there were so many angry white racists in America that would call up these sponsors and be like, you're sponsoring this black guy on this show. You better stop. They'd go to the producers.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
The producers would come to Belafonte and be like, hey, you know how you have white people and black people dancing together? What if we just did white or just did black? Belafonte wouldn't blink and it would get canceled despite all of the crazy great reviews and viewership it had. And, you know, that would be that. And he would just kind of move on.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah. So Harry Belafonte, I was trying to figure out how we can name this. And we might just say Harry Belafonte or something like that. But we could also say the thinking person saint.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
But of course he developed like this distrust and distaste for the entertainment industry. And I saw that he initially thought that he would be able to help change America, but Through Hollywood. And then he quickly came to see, like, no, Hollywood is just one more facet of this machine that keeps things going exactly as they are. So he got really disgusted by that.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Kind of fortunately for us, because he really kind of started to throw more and more of his energy into being an activist, not just in the United States, but around the world. And in particular, Paul Robeson, like you said, was one of his idols, who was also just one of the early... civil rights crusaders around the world.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And then Eleanor Roosevelt, FDR's wife, first lady, introduced him to the plight of different countries in Africa, which was decolonizing at the time. And he really kind of turned his attention toward that continent for a while.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah. Which is, you know, exactly part of the point. In addition to raising money to. Yeah. One of the cool things I saw about it was I'm not sure if it was his idea or if he kind of headed up the push to do this or both. But Harry Belafonte is credited with talking radio stations around the world. into playing We Are the World at the same time on the same day. It was, I think, March 28th, 1986.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
I remember. There was something like, do you remember that? Oh, yeah. Cool. There was like 5,000 radio stations around the world, and they all played it at the same time, I think 10.50 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. And Muzak actually played it as well.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And it was only the second time in the history of Muzak that they played voices over their service, which, by the way, at the time reached like 80 million Americans. So that's a lot of people listening to We Are the World at the at that same moment, which is neat.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah. Like he he did it all. He was just one of these people who, you know, when you when you approach an iconoclast, especially one who's just revered universally and you start picking at the edges, you're like, oh, my God, I hope it's not like garbage.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
I don't remember listening to it on the radio, but I do remember my family sitting around listening to the record.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And you just don't get to that point. Um, like he was through and through a genuinely good person. And one of the reasons why you don't get to like pick off the outer coating and find garbage underneath is because he was just pretty much fully transparent his whole life. And, um, he just, he was who he was and he wasn't apologetic for it.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Right. And so he would just leave show business for, you know, years at a time or at least like TV or movies or something like that. But he got pulled back into it in the early 70s because his buddy Sidney Poitier was like, hey, I want to start directing blaxploitation movies. Let's do this. And they made Buck and the Preacher, which I have not seen. I think it was from 1972.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Everything I've read about it makes me want to see it basically immediately. Sidney Poitier directed it, but he also plays Buck, who's this ex-Civil War soldier who Helps ensure safe passage for African-Americans moving out of Louisiana out west after the Civil War. And the preacher is Harry Belafonte, who's this con artist dressed as a preacher. It just sounds awesome.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And then Uptown Saturday Night. Haven't seen that one either. It sounds pretty great, except it's so hard now to get past anything with Bill Cosby.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
It's so hard, not just because of the horrible stuff he did, sexually assaulting women, but also because he was so preachy leading up to it. He was so holier than thou. And it makes the whole thing so much worse, if you ask me.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And he just put it all out there based on his, his beliefs and his beliefs tended to, um, coincide with the right side of history typically. He saw people who were downtrodden being taken advantage of, being discriminated against, and he wanted to go help make that better. Yeah.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah. But he had a really great inspiration in the form of Paul Robeson, who kind of guided things. You mentioned him before. He was an idol of his and a real inspiration. He was the guy who sang Old Man River, among other things. But he was a model for Harry Belafonte. Paul Robeson was running around the world. He took his fame and he used it to highlight, you know, plights around the world.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
But he was also like a huge... He protested for peace and he ran around the world trying to make peace. I mean, between the U.S. and the USSR at the beginning of the Cold War, this guy was going back and forth trying to like create friendships where there was nothing but animosity. He did the same thing with communist China.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And he was also not afraid to criticize the United States and like its racist policies, too, at the time. So you put all that together. This guy was prime meat for the McCarthy trials and he got blacklisted, but he refused to be count. He would not name names. He would not renounce his work. He would not take back anything that they demanded he take back.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And he really served as this model for Harry Belafonte. Despite, I mean, Robeson had it hard. He fell hard. The State Department, he was doing all this traveling to promote peace. The State Department suspended his passport from 1950 to 1958. Kind of hard to run around the world pre-internet. Phones are still relatively expensive to use.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Trying to organize peace when you can't travel outside of the U.S. But he was a really, like he deserves it, I think, an episode himself. But he stood as this inspiration and model for Harry Belafonte. So even when he would get downtrodden and defeated, he had Paul Robeson to look to and be like, this guy went through even worse than me.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah. So we've kind of talked about some of the stuff, some of the causes he took up that he's best known for, like civil rights. Did you mention anti-apartheid? Yeah. He performed at a rally, a no-nuke rally in the early 80s in Germany. He sought to broker peace between the Crips and the Bloods in L.A. back in the late 80s. He protested the Iraq War in the early 2000s.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And then the cause that he kind of got behind toward the very end of his life was incarceration in general. He was, I think, the first performer to play Rikers Island. James Brown famously did in 1972. Harry Belafonte did it a couple of months before James Brown did. And then throughout the rest of his career, he would he would visit prisons and hang out with the inmates.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
But he also really focused on child incarceration and just found that totally amoral and immoral and inexcusable. So he really started a whole generation of like activists in that right before he died. It's just one more thing he did, you know.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah. I also saw he was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2022. And the bio almost defiantly dares you to be like, he's not rock and roll. They said that basically every artist who's mixed politics with their music, from Bob Dylan and Bono to Rage Against the Machine and Public Enemy, they, quote, stand on his broad shoulders, which, I mean, that's absolutely true.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Let's kick the whole thing off, right? Because for those of you who don't know, we should probably say Harry Belafonte is a legendary entertainer. That's what he's most widely known for. And most widely known for the song Deo, which is why I said, hey-o, come full circle now.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Sure, but they were like, say something, and then you did, and then you felt like a jackass.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
I don't know. I could see Gene Simmons saying something about it. There's also a really great appearance on The Muppet Show where he sings Deo with some of the Muppets, and it's just sweet and wholesome and just great. Yeah, good stuff. One more thing. We cannot not mention Beetlejuice, dude.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah. And the whole I mean, the whole thing is just amazing. But for some reason, Catherine O'Hara is just you just see she is so cool when she's doing this. Like, it's just perfect. And she's supposedly the one who suggested Calypso for the music that they use. Oh, that's funny. Not funny. No, it's not funny at all, Chuck. You're absolutely right.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
But apparently Harry Belafonte said that about a year after Beetlejuice, he became popular with kids. Apparently Deo and Jump the Line, or Jump in the Line, sorry, they both ended up on the Billboard 200 after Beetlejuice for a little while. And he said that all sorts of kids would come up to him after they saw Beetlejuice.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And he said that they would wipe their hands full of tomato ketchup and mustard on my clothes. And I enjoyed the whole excursion.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
uh it's some of it's uh maybe unusual to modern ears but it's like really good stuff yeah and it's even better if you watch like footage of him singing it too like you really his stage presence really comes across even on video years later that's right did we mention he was handsome he was easy on the eyes not hard to look at no for sure he could really wear a shirt unbuttoned down to his navel too man
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah. And if you don't know what we're talking about still, just pause this, go into YouTube, type in Deo, look for the original version and listen to it and come back. And you will be pretty much as versed as you need to be going into this episode.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
I can't either. All right. Well, that's Harry Belafonte, everybody. R.I.P., Harry.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And if you want to know more about Harry Belafonte, like Chuck said, go look him up and start listening to him and watching some videos. And in the meantime, I think that means it's time for listener mail.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
That is Matthias Dernford. That's a great one. We should have done that as like a segment, but now we can't because everybody knows it.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Good. Well, if you want to be like Matthias and have us debate how to say your name, love that kind of thing, you can send us an email, too, to stuffpodcasts at iHeartRadio.com.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah, and he was raised by his grandmother there. His maternal grandmother, Melveen's mom, was a white woman, a Jamaican white woman. And she really raised him to kind of love all people, which is a big early influence. And then another influence of living in Jamaica at the time was he saw black professionals. He saw black doctors, black lawyers. Completely competent, completely normal.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
There wasn't anything wrong with them. They were just black doctors and black lawyers and et cetera. And it really kind of served as a foil to him to how how things were back in America.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Which was very discriminatory at the time. He was smack dab in the middle of the Jim Crow era in the United States.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah, and that's what they would get paid based on, how much they had loaded overnight. So you couldn't leave until the guy came along and said, you loaded 5 million tons of bananas. Here's your $50 or whatever. Then you could go home. I had no idea that's what that song was about.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
I don't even remember what I was. I was just listening and it was all just kind of like vocal sounds. It was like the cock two twins or something like that. He was just making sounds, not actually saying anything or saying words. So now that I know there's a story behind it, I love it.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah, they turned him on to books like The Soul of Black Folk, The Souls of Black Folk by W.E.B. Du Bois. And like that combined with his early upbringing where he was able to juxtapose society in Jamaica and society in America, like this really kind of got things started. So by the time he met his wife, his first wife, Marguerite Byrd, he was radicalized at this point.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
I saw it described as like he was full on like civil rights movement guy. And this is the 40s. So this is before the civil rights movement had really kind of started in earnest, at least the version that we think of when we think of it historically. And Marguerite was not that way at all. She was from an upper middle class black family. She was a sorority girl in Virginia.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
She was just raised in the type of conservative household where it's like, You just trust the system. You trust society. If the news tells you something that's true. And she and Harry were almost like foils to an extent. She saw her role as taking care of this misguided, like angry man and trying to help him through life. And I'm sure he saw his role in part as like opening her eyes.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
But the big thing that came out of their union was his first two kids.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah, and they both did so because they wanted to do whatever they could to get their foot in the door into theater, the world of theater.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
I saw somewhere it mentioned that when they were just two broke stagehands, they loved the theater so much that they would pool their money together to buy a single ticket to Broadway shows, and then one would see one act, and then they would switch off, and the other would see the second act or whatever.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah, I mean, you really love the theater. Like you said, he caught the bug. if you're doing stuff like that. He also enrolled in a really – that's the measuring stick, by the way, for whether you love theater or not.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Right. He also enrolled in a legendary acting workshop that was held at the New School for years. Some of his classmates were Walter Matthau. Did you see the documentary Sing Your Song about him? Not Walter Matthau, but about Belafonte?
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
It's good. But they show like some stills from that workshop. And there's young Walter Matthau. He looks like some doofy 20-year-old Walter Matthau. It's pretty great.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
But he has like a cowlick and he's wearing like a heavy flannel shirt. Like he just walked out of the woods of Minnesota or something. Yeah. I love it. He was also in class with Tony Curtis, Marlon Brando, and then the future Dorothy Petrilos-Bornak, also known as Bea Arthur.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Can you imagine you go to class and that's who you're in class with? But they don't mean anything yet. They're all just acting students.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Hey, yo, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here, too, which is appropriate because this is a barn burner of an episode, if you ask me. Did you say, hey, yo? I did. Very nice. I got to freshen it up here or there sometimes. It's starting to get a little stale.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah, they actually became pretty good friends.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
I think we could do just one episode on Don Juan DeMarco.
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Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
Yeah, because like you said, he wasn't happy with singing jazz standards or pop music, despite the fact that I saw that he was backed at some points by Charlie Parker, the famous drummer Max Roach, and Miles Davis, all his young musicians. And he's like, nah, let me go on to folk music.
Stuff You Should Know
Harry Belafonte: The Real Deal
And he got so heavy into folk music that he spent his time researching folk songs at the Library of Congress to expand his repertoire. That's how into folk music he got. And he was so broke that he would find somebody to split a ticket into the Library of Congress's archives and would research for an hour and then they'd trade off and do the next hour. And that means you're really into folk music.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
And he was also very motivated by money because he was building his own house and he needed as much money as he could get to build said house.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Not too bright. That's a really important point that Taylor would hammer home any chance he got. This guy was sluggish, mentally speaking, is the way that he put it. But he got through to him with a pep talk, where essentially he said, are you a high-priced man? And Schmidt was like, I don't know what you're talking about. And when he wrote about Schmidt, he replaced his W's with V's and stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
He was a German immigrant. And he said, well, this is what a high-priced man does. He does everything that his manager tells him to do. If your manager tells you to pick up that pig iron and take six steps and then set it down over there, you do that.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
If your manager tells you to sit down and rest for 90 seconds, then after 90 seconds he tells you to get up and then go grab that piece of pig iron, you do that too with no backtalk whatsoever. Right. That's a high-priced man. You want to be a Mr. Big Boy Pants? Exactly. And high-priced men make more money. So we'll give you not just the $1.15 an hour that you're making.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
We'll give you $1.85 for making this 47.5-ton quota. And all you have to do is do what your manager tells you. And this is the other thing that I guess Frederick Taylor revolutionized in a way. He divided the workforce into two parts, managers who had the brains and did the bossing around and workers who were, according to Taylor, meant to do exactly what their managers told them.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
And if you put the two together, you would have the most efficient way to say like load pig iron onto a railroad car.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
I don't like three hour podcasts, but I also don't like living under the clock, which is why I probably would not have personally liked Frederick Winslow Taylor.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Well, yeah. Also, William Wilson said basically like we're not dealing with singing birds. We're dealing with men here who are part of society and for whom or for whose benefit society is organized. Right. So you can't essentially you can't treat people like automatons and drones and robots. You have to consider them as human beings.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And the lines from his book that you mentioned, apparently Jill Lepore reported that. that he did so poorly in this committee hearing that, by the way, if you want to ever be nervous about a committee hearing you have to go testify at, go to one that's literally named after you.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
This hearing was called the House Committee to Investigate Taylor, not Taylorism, Taylor and other systems of shop management. And so he actually ordered one of his underlings to go steal William Wilson's copy of his book. and I guess wasn't successful and just kind of went ahead with the terrible testimony.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
I don't think we have any choice. And by the way, this is not a biopic. It's not a biography or a profile. It's about a man that you can't not talk about, but really this is about his whole system. Okay. I just want to make that clear to you specifically.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
But as we'll see, he used it to turn bad publicity into any publicity, which is good publicity.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Every holiday season starts with the best of intentions. Bake that homemade pie. Get all your holiday shopping done early. But then, life gets in the way. But don't feel bad. It happens to everyone. And luckily, you've got DoorDash.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Okay, Chuck, you mentioned that we're going to talk about the Gilbreths, so I say we do that now. We're talking about Frank and Lillian Gilbreth. And anyone who has ever read the book or seen the movie or the remake, Cheaper by the Dozen, this is the family that that movie and that book were based on.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Frank and Lillian Gilbreth were one of the more amazing, interesting couples that came out of the 20th century.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, and it seems like Frank kind of came up with this interest independently of Frederick Taylor, even though he and Lillian and Taylor would essentially form kind of a cadre of cohorts, I guess.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
This is like an independent thing. These were two independent groups who eventually came together because they helped develop this field out of thin air. So what the Gilbreths did, Lillian and Frank together, they formed the Gilbreth Inc., a management consulting firm. they got really, really in the weeds about the movements it took to carry out a task.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
And they figured out that you could break any task down into 18 different kinds of movements, right? So you're not necessarily gonna have all 18, but no matter what task you're talking about, It's going to be made up of no more than those 18 specific kind of movements. Things like searching for an object with your eye, grasping an object, reaching for it, disassembling it.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
And they call these things therbligs, which is their name roughly spelled backwards.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, I think they're right. They're like, you're our guy.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, and to do that, so they would use their kids. They ended up having a dozen kids, 11 of whom made it to adulthood. One of them died at age five of diphtheria, sadly. And I don't know how, but they planned to have six boys and six girls. And I think they were successful at that. No idea how they did that because we're talking about the beginning of the 20th century.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
And they decided to raise their kids in the under these principles of efficiency. But they weren't weirdo clinical types like this was a tight, cool family. Like the kids were participatory, like they would have family meetings. Um, and each kid had a vote. And so they would have a family meeting and someone would put forward a motion. Like I say, we get a dog and someone would second it.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
And then they put it to a vote and then, you know, the eyes had it. So they ended up getting a dog. They named Mr. Chairman. Like that was how they ran their, their family, but they were all very focused on efficiency because they were obsessed with it, but not in a, a, a deleterious way, um, or deleterious way. They, they were, um,
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
So it was a really different viewpoint of the same thing compared to Frederick Taylor. Yeah.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. Yeah. I think I explained it already. I'm sticking with my idea.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
No, I don't think he was evil. I don't think that he set out to exploit workers. But I think even after he saw what his invention was being used for, he was indifferent to that. And that says volumes about him. He never denounced it. He never called people out for misusing it. And he actually helped foster its misuse to exploit workers. So I think he was a bit of a misanthrope.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Not evil, and that wasn't ever his intention to be evil, but when it turned kind of evil, he was like, sure, let's keep going if you guys are giving me money.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, maybe. For sure. I mean, it's possible. I think that we're barreling toward a future where every single person has a diagnosis of some sort or another.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think we already know that. But we haven't we haven't come up with a label for every single one of those types of issues that people are working with. That's the difference that I'm talking about.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
I agree. I don't think I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm just interested to see like where we're going. But yes, I agree. We've in large part as a society scuttled the idea of the Ubermensch and Nietzsche is very unhappy about that.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. Didn't Miller Lite have an ice too? Didn't everybody have an ice for a while? Light ice?
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
No, I screwed it up then because I should have said Bud Ice. But yeah, that's what I was going for. I know Milwaukee's best had an ice.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, I think it had something. It messed with the alcohol content or the way it was delivered or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Exactly. No, the opposite. You had to drink 12 instead of 14.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. And Brandeis is ironic because he was dyed in the wool progressive. Like you said, he was worried about big business. And so the idea that he's the one that made this concept that's historically viewed as exploitive of workers. famous and introduced to the world and essentially gave it its breakout moment. It's just terribly ironic.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
But the whole basis of that is that he was arguing before the Interstate Commerce Commission, which is holding hearings on railroad rate hikes. The railroad said, Stuff's getting expensive. We need to increase the prices that we charge to carry freight, to move freight. And of course, that has cascading effects all throughout society and prices were going to go up.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
And Brandeis represented a bunch of companies that were going to have to pay those increased rates. And Brandeis' argument was that the railroad companies don't need to raise their rates. They need to get more efficient. And here's how they can do it. This guy named Taylor has figured out a scientific way of getting more efficient.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
And that's how they can keep their prices low and still keep their profits high.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, for sure. And he was riding on the publicity from that Interstate Commerce Commission hearing, but also that congressional hearing that came, I think, later that same year. He saw an opportunity to get his name out there, even though his name was kind of being dragged through the mud.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. Have you ever heard of the work triangle in a kitchen?
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
But for those of you who don't know what it is, the kitchen triangle is like the places where you do the most work. And so the idea is that they should be all within a step or two from one another. The sink, the oven, and the ice cream maker. I don't remember what the third one is. The dishwasher. Dishwasher.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
So anyway, she came up with that. If you have a kitchen island, you can thank her. I've seen. So, yes, she's just kind of pivoted because people were finding out that there was a woman that ran Gilbreth Inc., the management consulting firm, and were just walking away from their accounts because it was run by a woman. So she had no choice. She had 12, 11 kids to raise. And so.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, and I could just hear our left-leaning listeners going, boo-hiss. But efficiency was not in and of itself a naughty word on either side of the political spectrum at the time because you could also hope that a more efficient factory or a more efficient workforce or a more efficient whatever –
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
had to provide for him. She wanted to send them all to college. So, yeah, she pivoted to home ec. But it wasn't just her. It's not like she invented home ec out of whole cloth. It was already being developed by a very famous or should be famous lesbian couple, Flora Rose and Martha Van Rensselaer. Yeah, Rensselaer, right?
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
R-E-N-S-S-E-L-A-E-R. Rensselaer. Yeah, that's what I'm going with. And the reason I specifically called them out as a lesbian couple is because they were out as a lesbian couple in, I believe, the 1920s or 30s. I mean, you just did not do that. And they were like, say something. Just bring it. And they just went unchallenged for their lifetime from what I knew.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
But they wanted to turn working in the home into something scientific, domestic science, which kind of elevated its status as well as made things easier for the woman working in the home.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Sure. The only question is who decides what really matters. And I think one of the things about that is that at the time when that guy was talking like that, kids in public schools were viewed as being trained and molded into the workers of tomorrow. So it was the government and the economy who decided what was important.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
And, yeah, we were making a lot of money off of reciting Greek poems, like you were saying. So that would get scuttled in the face of, say, I don't know, shop class maybe. What class? Shop?
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
No. I was just fascinated by that. They had one on Saved by the Bell, and I always thought that was the coolest thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Well, there was a huge shift in the American economy from car making to lamp making in the early 80s. So I'm sure that's what the result was.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Systematic soldier? Yeah. I say we take our second break.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
would increase productivity but also give workers more free time and then ideally a larger share of the profit in the form of higher wages. Yeah, that's how that works, right? Exactly. I mean, I can't imagine a more naive progressive movement than that, but that's exactly what they were hoping for.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot about the fridge. Yes, yes, absolutely.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Right, and I'm sure that she didn't have a dishwasher in the 1930s and 40s, so, you know. Yeah, so you're right, Chuck. Just say it again. I think it was the fridge. Okay.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
But not just hoping for, they were fighting for it, agitating for it, doing whatever they could, taking it to the courts. Sometimes they were successful, but I think we all know, spoiler alert, in the long run, they lost thus far.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. And so de-skilling workers, taking away the overall understanding of making, say, like an oven and just giving them the one job of putting the door on the oven as it's coming down the assembly line. Not only does that take away from job satisfaction, it also makes you way more replaceable. Because you don't have to train somebody to build a whole oven.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
All you have to do is train them to put that oven door on and then you train somebody else to put the thermostat in the oven and so on and so forth. And you, the owner of the factory, has that oven you want, but you have a bunch of replaceable workers that you can pay fairly low wages, even combined, compared to somebody who builds the oven from scratch.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
That is a huge, like you said, that was already underway. But Taylorism and the fact that it was so pervasive and widespread, especially in America in the first half of the 20th century, really solidified that as like a basis of the American workforce.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yes. And so to be clear, it wasn't like every single time Taylor showed up, like that's just how it went. There were some successful pushbacks over the years. There's one specifically at the Watertown Arsenal in Massachusetts in 1911. They made guns, I think, for the government. It was a federal arsenal. And Taylor sent one of his emissaries, essentially told him to just make up a number.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
You don't even need the stopwatch part. And I think word of that got out and really kind of undermined that. But also just the process of being timed, doing your job. One of the workers said, I'm not doing that. You can't time me. And he was fired on the spot. And the rest of the workers were like, oh, yeah, well, we're going on strike.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
And they ended up being successful because, again, this was a federal arsenal. And those congressional hearings to investigate Taylor, one of the results of them was that the U.S. federal government banned Taylorism from being used in any way, shape or form in any kind of federal facility or agency.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
But but overall, I mean, Taylor certainly won the day. I mean, that's that's just how the economy is in America and other like minded countries. Like even though we've kind of walked away from it overtly, it's just gotten more and more entrenched over the years rather than further and further away.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Right. No, for sure. And yeah, that's a really great point. But some studies have shown, from what I saw, just briefly reading about this, that The happier your workers are, or I should say economies that have happier workers, like more fulfilled workers, typically have, they're richer for the most part.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
I guess America is an outlier because I think overall workers are not necessarily happy with their jobs or lack of job. But supposedly, if you invest in your workers' well-being and actual happiness and fulfillment with their job, they're going to work more for you. They're going to work harder because they care about what they're doing.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Totally. Yeah. And then one of the other big things that shows that Taylorism is still alive and well today, Chuck, is computers, AI, whatever you want to call it, they're fulfilling the role of managers that Taylor envisioned. So remember, the manager was in charge of figuring out the best way to do something and then instructing the worker to do it exactly that way at exactly that time.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
That is what computers do today for workers, which is a bizarre reversal of authority, I guess, if you think about it. But that's the way it is, especially in places like, you know, big warehouses or call centers. There's computers essentially running the show.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
No, I don't remember that guy. You got to tell me. I'll remind you. Okay. Please do.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Just one last thing. Do you have anything more about Taylorism? No. OK, great. Well, then I do have just one last thing. If you want kind of a lighthearted look, a comedy with heart efficiency, check out the 1991 film The Efficiency Expert starring Anthony Hopkins.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
That was, yeah, kind of a different one. But, yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of crossover for sure. What's this Tony Hopkins picture? What is it? The Efficiency Expert. It's exactly what you just described. And he ends up in, I think, a factory where the workers make, they change his view of things. I think they kind of turn him around. Oh.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Well, anyway, we're about to end. Well, wait, hold on. We got to do listener mail, don't we?
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
By the way, Chuck, I got to tell you that we ended on 45 minutes on the nose. Holy cow. Yeah. Way to go, champ. Oh, since I said way to go, champ, of course, that means it's time for listener mail.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, at Midvale Steel Company, that's where he really made his name. I think that's where he became the chief engineer.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Oh, nice. Thanks, Stanley. You're a true listener through and through, aren't you? I love that humble, like, I can't figure out how to put the words together, but here they are.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Exactly. Well, if you want to be like Stanley and make me say wow, not once, not twice, but thrice, then you can try your hand at it. Send us an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
And one of the things he did as he was working his way up was he was, I guess, out of the gate obsessed or at least deeply interested with the idea of doing something in the least number of movements, the most precise way, the most foolproof way, and that if you studied a task closely enough – and understood it well enough, you could find the most efficient way to do it.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
And so over his 26-year career at Midvale, he conducted more than 30,000 experiments in metal cutting, figuring out which tool went with which motion, went with how to grab the tool the best way. And from that, he ended up writing a book called On the Art of Cutting Metals in 1907. And from what I saw for years and years, that was considered like a Bible in the metal cutting industry.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
And so he definitely put his money where his mouth is. And that's how he first kind of got into the idea of becoming an efficiency expert.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
And your response is like, well, can I go home early? Probably so.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah, remember in our Peter Principle episode, we talked about a corollary to that called Parkinson's Law, which is like a tongue-in-cheek law that work expanded to fill the time allotted. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, if you're sitting there like making widgets, sorry to be cliche, but that's what I'm going with, eight or ten hours a day, you're not going to be the most efficient you can be.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
You're going to be about as efficient as as ambitious as you are. Like your ambition, how far you want to go, is basically equal in some weird ratio to the amount of efficiency that you produce at your job, right? So if you're like, I'm happy here, I'm not going to bust my hump like that guy to go an extra half mile because I'm not going to get anything in return.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
So I'm just going to do my job at a pace that I find – And that the people I work for find acceptable. And I mean, if you want to call that slacking off or being lazy, fine. And Frederick Taylor definitely did. But it's also just kind of like being a human being, you know.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And they appreciated your soft touch with the donkey that pulled the cart.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. I think the reason you're – man, we're really going deep on this. But I think the reason that you're feeling mischaracterized is because you're misusing the word lazy. That's not lazy. That's what they call work harder – or work smarter, not harder.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
No, that's not necessarily true. I think it's just sensible.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Okay. There you go. But they're not necessarily inextricably tied together in that instance. Okay. Anyway, I don't think what you just described qualifies as laziness. But what Frederick Taylor considered laziness, he called something called systematic soldiering, which I still can't make heads or tails of. It does not make any sense to me. Does it to you?
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
I don't know. I mean, you go off and fight battles or you go and follow orders. I don't know. I don't know what he means.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
It makes no sense because that was his term, systematic soldiering.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. Right. That's what he called slacking off. And like this guy was an aristocat through and through. Right. His mother's family came over in the early 1600s, I think, to America. So like he was a wealthy, blue blooded. A quicker boy who, because his parents were like do-gooders, his mom certainly was. She was a suffragette, an abolitionist.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
He was raised to care about humanity, but he also didn't have that spark of compassion that it takes to care about humans individually. So he cared about creating a better society for humans, but he couldn't really help but look down on other people he considered lower than him, including immigrants. So he did notice things like, you're not working as hard as you can.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
I'm going to see to it that you work harder. And he felt totally comfortable with filling that role. And he actually created that role for himself to fill, which is pretty remarkable if you ask me.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, timing us, telling us to hurry up, scowling at us even, which makes this another average episode of Stuff You Should Know. She said, get this in 45 minutes on the nose. No more, no less. And then she went and walked out of the room holding a pillow.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. And so those management companies like KPMG and McKinsey, they would not exist ostensibly had Frederick Taylor not created that field. Like that's what he created. These huge just mega world influencing companies came from this guy basically making up the profession.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Yeah. And that thing about people getting tired, he called the law of heavy laboring. And from what I can tell, he made up that law that I just put into scare quotes. And this is a really good example of what he did.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Like he was supposed to be precise in finding like ultimate efficiency, but he was arbitrarily rounding up and arbitrarily coming up with 40 percent off based on this law that he made up. And now you kind of start to get to see like behind the veil or like the meat that's on the bones. I don't know the analogy I'm looking for, but you can pull back the curtain. That's the one.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
And see that this stuff is actually not what Frederick Taylor cracked it up to be.
Stuff You Should Know
Taylorism: Work Faster!
Here's the thing, though. So Schmidt, yes, was a fictional invention, essentially, of Taylor's making. But he went around the country giving this lecture or wrote in his books, like, as if Schmidt, this actually happened. About Schmidt? Yeah. It was a great movie. I really felt uncomfortable when he made a pass at the wife of the friendly couple that he met.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
Other than that, I thought it was a great movie. Yeah. I think at that point, that was actually just an outtake of Jack Nicholson doing his thing.
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Taylorism: Work Faster!
This is great. So he put out there that the Schmidt character was like a real deal thing, not a made up thing, not a made up anecdote to prove his point. And he actually did consult at Bethlehem Steel where Schmidt supposedly worked. But the upshot of all of it was this. There was this guy named Schmidt who is known to work very hard.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
And they decided like, no, we're just going to use up a valuable asset. And frankly, I'm not sure that that guy could do it. Yeah. So they didn't have him kill Franco. But he he really proved his worth by infiltrating the fascists in the Spanish Civil War. And by this time, well, should we take a break and then come back and talk about his next round of stuff?
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Okay. Well, we'll be right back to talk about his next round of stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yeah, there's no implied dummy in the title of our podcast, okay? No, no, no.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
So, Chuck, I was saying that Philby proved himself a very loyal communist spy and an effective one, too. So Otto's like, hey, man, you got any friends? And Philby says, yes. Yes, I do. As a matter of fact, I have two very close friends from my Cambridge days who I think would fit the bill perfectly. One of them was named Donald McLean. The other was Guy Burgess. I'm not sure which way he said it.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
I also saw a lot of conflicting information that Guy Burgess recruited Philby and yada, yada, yada. But I think that the way that we've said it is correct.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
So I'll tell you somebody who wasn't a dummy as far as it comes to being a world-class liar. Maybe England's greatest liar ever. It was a spy. from the World War II beginning early Cold War era named Harold Kim Philby. And if that name rings a bell, well, just sit back and enjoy this episode on a British spy. If you don't know who Kim Philby is, sit back and enjoy this episode on a British spy.
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Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yeah, it's crazy. Like he was a loose cannon if there ever was one, but they still recruited him anyway.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yeah. There were two others that were kind of brought on, one of which was this lone wolf who was kind of acting independently. But what they had in common is they'd all five gone to Cambridge or instructed at Cambridge.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Oh, yeah. That part, too. Yeah. So when World War II broke out, the Soviets were like, oh, this is great. We're allied with England, you know, nominally. And we've got this guy on the inside. Let's have him join military intelligence. And just like everything else, military intelligence was run by the upper crust, the aristocracy of Great Britain at the time.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
And so just like he went to that lefty professor at Cambridge and said, what can I do to help the communist cause? This spy version of Kim Philby went to the British aristocracy and said, what can I do to help the crown? I would really love to get into intelligence. They're like, well, come aboard to MI6. We don't need to vet you.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
We'll look at your background and see if there's anything that pops up. Nothing did? Great. Come aboard. Here's every secret that we have in the entire nation.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
No, I think that Dave put it best, though, when he really brought it home for me, at least to describe how charming this guy was. He said Dave compared him to peak Hugh Grant. I almost wet my pants when I read that. I was like, God, that's charming. That's how disarmed I was. I almost just peed.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
What's that? It's another A24 horror movie. Maybe. What's it about? I don't want to give it away. It's about where you can hold this mummified hand and speak to the spirit world. You've not seen it? It's Australian.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Oh, no. She'll hang out on the couch with me and watch them, but she's not. She doesn't watch them. Although I think she would even like talk to me. It's just so well done. And there's only a few parts that are like scary, scary. Yeah. It's just a really well thought out horror movie. It's really cool.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yeah. So Kim Philby, he wrote a memoir, as we'll see later on, but he showed zero remorse, essentially, for any of the lives that he cost, essentially. One of the really good examples of this is some members of the Catholic resistance in Germany who were fighting the Nazis during World War II. They approached the British intelligence. We should say MI6.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
I don't know if we said that's the British equivalent of the CIA in America.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yeah, I don't know if they're military intelligence or not. I guess we'll find out when we do our MI6 episode. Exactly. Great point. But they came to MI6. Some of these resistance leaders came to MI6 and they said, hey, we want to make friends with you because we think the allies are going to win. We're fighting to make sure the allies win.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
And afterward, we want to build a Christian democratic Germany that's going to be super friendly with the West. So let's work together after the war. OK, see you. Ta-ta for now. And Philby, as a member of MI6, found out about this, told the Soviets and basically the names and addresses of these people.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
I just wanted to replicate it perfectly.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
The Soviets went and killed them all because the Soviets wanted Germany to be communist afterward, not open and democratic and Christian. So after the war, when MI6 went looking for these Catholic resistance leaders to help rebuild Germany, they were gone. They'd all been killed during the war thanks to Kim Philby.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yeah. And he was so good at lying. He was so good at playing this part, sleeping with the enemy, like you said, year after year after year. That even when the Soviets were the enemy now, like he just coasted right through it like it was nothing, like there had been no change whatsoever for him. So he actually had a stroke of genius.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
In 1944, he said, hey, we really need to start worrying about these Soviets. I'm worried that there's Soviet spies in MI6, and I think we need to create a counterintelligence section for MI6 dedicated to rooting out Soviet spies.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Something like that when you're a Soviet spy. But at the same time, it really shows. Yeah, that was his M.O. He would be like, you can't possibly suspect me because I'm the one suggesting this. That's what he did. And they were like, great idea. Let's get somebody not you to do this. And they hired a guy named Felix Cowgill.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
You sound like Hank Azaria in Mystery Men, The Sphinx.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
I think that's a great quote, too. He definitely nails it. But that's the reality now. Kim Philby is in charge of rooting out Soviet spies, yet he's a Soviet spy for MI6. It's perfect. Yeah. Yeah. So things are going along smoothly for, I don't know, a couple of months. And then there's this really big deal that happens. There's a defector who worked at the Soviet embassy in Istanbul.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
His name was Konstantin Volkov. And Volkov went to the British embassy in Istanbul. He said, hey, neighbor, get this. I know the names of dozens of Soviet spies embedded in British intelligence all throughout. And I will tell you their names if you give me $50,000. And they're like, $50,000 in 2025 money? He goes, no, no, no, $50,000 in 1944 money. That's a lot more.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
If you give me that and you help me and my wife defect to the West, I'll tell you all these people's names. And here's a little bit of sugar on top to get you interested. One of these spies is the head of a section of the British counter-espionage service in London. Wow.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yeah, he told the KGB that there was this Volkov defector in Istanbul and they needed to take care of him. So he looks totally innocent and legit, like he's the head of MI6 Soviet counter espionage department. So it makes sense that he would go interview him, one, but it also just makes him look so innocent.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Why would you go all the way over there to meet with somebody you know is not going to be there? Of course he's innocent. He went to Istanbul to meet the guy. That guy just disappeared, that's all. And it was just another masterstroke. I'm just, I mean, I don't take my hat off to liars very often, but this guy definitely deserves a hat tip for coming up with this stuff. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Right, exactly. So yet again, he's done some amazing maneuvering. He's in D.C. He's hanging out with the most connected, embedded members of the CIA, the FBI, the diplomatic circuit from the State Department, like everybody who's anyone in D.C. this guy's partying with. And you said that he was well-known as just like a – he had a hollow leg. He was just such an amazing drinker.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
He could drink as well as anybody. Like Marion from Raiders of the Lost Ark, you said. Apparently, he could get so drunk that he couldn't engage in a conversation – But he was always listening, and he could still type up a pretty great report the next day for his handlers based on the stuff he'd overheard while he was blackout drunk, essentially. So this really jibed with America.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Like, the Americans at the time, they loved drinking like that, just like the Brits, maybe even more so.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
I think you nailed it. Philby, Kim, he was nicknamed Kim because there was a Rudyard Kipling story, a book, I think, about a street urchin raised on the streets of India who becomes a spy. Isn't that crazy?
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Okay. But close to tied, at least you can agree. So he would just drink with everybody. And that's how he became a trusted confidant. Apparently, also, he was a genuine friend. Like he met some people along the way that he really became friends with. And I think later on, he said that he missed some of them. But that combination of being one of them.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
in the intelligence community, being able to drink as well as anybody so he can have fun at cocktail parties, being charming, and then also being a legit friend. He really got his hooks into people over in the U.S. as well.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Right. And so there's a whole bunch of heads also on Philby as well from that.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Right. He wasn't out in there like we're going to call you Kim from now on. Yeah, he grew up to be a spy and he was nicknamed after a boy who grew up to be a spy. So it is pretty interesting. But everyone called him Kim Philby and he was born in India in 1912. His dad was a colonialist, like you said. His sympathies actually lay with India actually.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yes. So I guess as an example of what kind of friend he was, he took it upon himself to get in touch with the KGB and be like, McLean's blown. He needs to get out of here. But just McLean, because if just McLean had to flee and it seemed like it was just McLean who was the spy, he could weather that pretty well. He could be like, I can't believe this. I was as duped as you were.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
If his other friend, the other member of the Cambridge Three, Guy Burgess, also fled, it would be really hard for Kim Philby to be like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe my two best friends were Soviet spies, but not me. Right. So he told Guy Burgess, like, McLean's leaving. You cannot leave. You have to stay here. We're going to ride this out together. Just we'll be OK.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
He eventually quit the service and went to become, I think, an advisor to the king of Saudi Arabia eventually.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
And Guy Burgess said, yes, absolutely. And he dipped with McLean to leaving, leaving Kim Philby to hold the bag.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yeah, well put. He could have fled too. He didn't, though. He's like, I think the best thing I can do is stay here. And just by having the guts to stay here, it'll make me look all the more innocent. Like, it will back up my claim, right? Like, what person in his right mind would be a Soviet spy? And when he's basically outed, stick around to say, no, I'm not a spy. And that's exactly what he did.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
And MI6... At the end, they said, OK, we'll believe you. And they circled the wagons around him again because he was an aristocrat. But the CIA, the FBI, MI5, which is like the UK's version of the FBI, all of them were like, this guy, Kim Philby, he's the third man. He's a Soviet spy. And MI6 would not hear of it. And there is actually a rift that developed between MI6 and the other agencies.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
But the reason why MI6 was willing to do this was because, like we said, he was such a good friend that his true friends who were left, who weren't spies, came to his defense and they staked their reputations on Kim Philby not being the third man, the Soviet spy that was still embedded in MI6.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yeah, for not the last time in his life, he almost drank himself to death between 1951 and 1956 when he was just totally unmoored and adrift. He was no longer in MI6. The Soviets had cut off contact with him. And his friend Nicholas Elliott, one of those guys who would stake their reputation on Kim Philby not being a Soviet spy, he pulled some strings.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
He used to be this MI6 station chief in Beirut. And he got in touch with some friends at The Observer and at The Economist and said, why don't you take this guy, Kim Philby, as one of your reporters? He's a longtime journalist. He used to be a journalist and covered the world. Why don't you put him to work in Beirut? And they did.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
They put him in as a Middle East correspondent for both of those papers. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Right. So he was back in it again. He was happy to be alive once again. And I think this lasted for about a year. A woman named Flora Solomon came forward. She had been reading some of Philby's articles in either the Observer, the Economist or both. that were unflattering toward Israel. And Flora Solomon was dedicated to the cause of Israel and did not like that. So she said, you know what?
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
I've had this thing in my pocket for 30 years. Kim Philby approached me when we were back at Cambridge and asked me if I wanted to become a Soviet spy. And I said, no. And then I just let it go for 30 years until he ticked me off. And so this was this was it. Like she said, this guy is a Soviet spy, told an editor at one of the papers, either The Economist or The Observer again.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
They turned around and told MI6 and Kim Philby was in again in trouble. And this time he had nobody to swoop in to help him out. He was he was basically cooked.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Because MI6 at the time was doing something called negative vetting. They would look at your record, your file, whatever they had on you. And as long as nothing, no red flags popped out, you were in. Rather than positive vetting where they conducted an actual background, like a background investigation on you, they went to the trouble of like doing research.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
As long as there's no problems, you were in. So that was one reason why it changed. Wow. OK, well, that makes sense. Thanks. I'm glad you knew that. Thank you.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Right. So communism became a thing among young Cambridge intellectuals at the time. And communism was viewed as the antidote to fascism, which was on the rise at the time in the late 30s. And the reason I was like, why? I don't understand that because my geopolitics is seen through the view of an 80s American kid who lived through the end of the Cold War. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Well, he compromised. So just this past January, they declassified the confession that he gave to Nicholas Elliott. And in it, he basically said, yes, I spied for the Soviets, but only while they were allies to the UK, just in World War II. And in 1946, I stopped. So he compromised. He had to give them something, but he also didn't give them enough that the Soviets would want to kill him, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Right, exactly. And Nicholas Eliot had a great quote when he went to Beirut. He said, I once looked up to you, Kim. My God, how I despise you now. I hope you've enough decency left to understand why.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
So Philby's sitting there. He's doing three days of interviews with Nicholas Elliott. And on the third day, he's like, that's enough. I'm out of here. And he vanished from Beirut in January of 1963, shortly after telling his wife he'd meet her at a diplomatic dinner party that evening.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
And he hopped on a Soviet freighter and slipped away, slipped away so easily that even the KGB was like, we're pretty sure Nicholas Elliott let him slip away.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
He also I mean, he was considered I think still to this day is considered a national hero in Russia. He was featured on a postage stamp in 1990 as part of the Soviet intelligence agent series of postage stamps. And I think he got full military KGB honors when he was buried in Moscow.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
And yet I read this blog called Cypher Brief, and they basically say the big problem they did in addition to all the lives lost because of him. was just the damage he did at creating paranoia in all of the intelligence agencies, which tore themselves apart looking for Soviet spies. Because they found out that there were not just three, but five.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
And they tore themselves up for decades to come looking for that fifth one because they didn't know who it was. And it turned out it was a guy named John Karncross. And then there was another one named Anthony Blunt, who was the art curator for The Crown. But he was a traitor. At any rate, that was one of the big lasting legacies Kim Philby left behind him was just utter paranoia.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Mm-hmm. Well put, chap. Thanks. You got anything else?
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
It means that I've unlocked listener mail. Ding.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
But communism is all about class and social equality. One of the defining characteristics of fascism is a rigid hierarchy. So, of course, the aristocracy of Great Britain would be fully on board with a kind of ideology that said, yes, you're at the top. You deserve to be at the top. You should stay at the top.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
No, like you would pronounce the E if it has an accent. There's something to it.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Do they taste like Wendy's tasteless fries?
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Oh, that's a good extra one there at the end.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Thank you very much, Emily. That is a great test, a litmus test, if you will, for poutine. Mm-hmm. In my opinion, it would be really tough for the gravy to potato ratio to be too much gravy. It'd be easy to be too little gravy, but too much gravy would be hard to achieve, in my opinion. That could lead to a soggy fry, though. Yeah, that just means you're not eating them fast enough.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
All right, well, if you want to be like Emily and send us your own personal litmus test for something or other, we love that kind of stuff, you can send it to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
And so the aristocracy at the time definitely had sympathies with the Nazis because of their fascist leanings. And that did not sit well with these young Cambridge intellectuals who had bought fully into communism as the ideology to spread throughout the world.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
I mean, out of all of the Soviet spies in the UK at the time, he was probably the most committed communist ever.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
No, for sure. So he was at Cambridge, and he met with a professor. And with this professor, he said, hey, I really want to help communism. you know, spread throughout the world. What can I do? What does a young aristocratic Cambridge grad do to help communism? And this professor said, so in Vienna right now, they're battling, the communist comrades are battling a dictator named Engelbert Dolfus.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
And Dolfus is a fascist dictator. And you can go to Austria and help. I don't know how, but just go to Austria and figure it out. And he did.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yeah, so this real-life communist was a Czech academic who was undercover for the Soviets as basically a spy master. His name was Arnold Deutsch, or at least that's what he told people. I guess that's where Germany comes up in this one. His codename and what he used to communicate with people was Otto, O-T-T-O. Apparently, it was huge on security.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
He would make Philby take like three taxis at least before they would meet. And this guy was like, OK, I can do something with you. You're like an aristocratic. You're a member of the upper crust of British society. And right now, the upper crust of British society is if you're from them, you have total trust across the board. Let's take advantage of that.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yeah. But one other thing he had to do, too, was he had to he had to become at least outwardly what he despised the most, which was the quintessential English aristocrat.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yep. Right wing fascist sympathies that aren't particularly well hidden. Super conservative. Very loyal to the British crown. Right. Yeah, essentially everything you think of when you think of like a guy wearing a bowler hat in the 40s in Great Britain carrying an umbrella on his forearm. Right. Like he did not like these people.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
And yet he he now entered their world where he would stay essentially as a mole for years to come. And I mean, it's I don't really sympathize with him because of who he was and what a traitor he was.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
But I do sympathize with him in the idea of having to live your life like that around people you despise and have to pretend like you like them for years on end or that you are one of them for years on end. That had to be – that had to definitely be rough on the old soul, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Right. So you said that he was told he needed a J-O-B.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Right. That was his J-O-B. And the reason why it was such a great profession for him is that you can go all over the world as a journalist and you're just like, yeah, I'm covering the running of the bowl. So here I am. Or this Olympics is amazing, isn't it? Oktoberfest. Let's do it. Right. Nobody's going to question why you're in this country because you're covering something. That's one thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Another thing, too, is if you are covering like elite people, you're kind of considered a member of the club just in and of itself. Right. So people let their guard down around you because you're an aristocrat. You're one of them. They know you won't say the things that they are saying off the record. You won't print those in the paper, but you could sell them to the Soviets. That's exactly right.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
So he gathered all sorts of off the record secrets and all this stuff from from interviewing people at the highest echelons of power that they were sharing with him because he was one of them. He was just turning right around and giving it to the Soviets, like you said. So his his career as a journalist to start out was it was a great choice.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yeah, he essentially pulled a Christopher Hitchens and just completely transformed from one way to the other. So at the time, Civil War broke out. This is in the 30s as well in Spain. Have you ever seen The Orphanage? Yes. Very creepy.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yeah, it was. On one hand, you had the fascists led by Francisco Franco and they were fighting the communists led by Franco Francisco. And he was supposed to be a war reporter for The London Times. And I mean, he was writing for The Times, but really what he was doing was working his way into the good graces of the fascists.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
So he could spy on them for the Soviets, who would then in turn tell what agents to do what to undermine the fascist side of the Civil War.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here, too. And this is the podcast. As just mentioned, we call it Stuff You Should Know. And by the way, we should say to any new listeners, we're not saying you should already know this stuff. So don't be hostile toward us about that. We're saying we think you should know this because it's so interesting.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Well, that's why you're the best all-around boy. Man, stop it.
Stuff You Should Know
Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time?
Yeah, one thing I saw real quick is that Kim Philby received the highest military honor possible from the Spanish, the Soviets, and the English, all while he was a spy for the USSR. Wow, that's crazy. So he gained so much access, like he was friendly with the highest levels of the fascist side of the Spanish government that the Soviets were like, we could just have him off Franco at this point.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
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Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
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Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
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Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah, same here. I keep making this sound whenever I move.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Chuck, have you seen that movie, The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare? It's like a newish Guy Ritchie movie. No. It's pretty good, actually. All right. It's like an easy watch. It's not some big, huge, sweeping epic or something you have to really keep up with. It's just kind of an energy. It's a Guy Ritchie movie. Yeah. Well, I would call Snatch kind of convoluted.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
I can't help it. It's just, I'm that rusty.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Sure. But there actually was something called the Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare. That was the nickname for it. It was called the Special Operations Executive, officially. And they basically trained saboteurs. So that's who Lief Transtad threw his lot in with.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And one of the first things they did for the Norwegians was send them to Scotland and have them train in like extreme weather as much as they could. But I'm thinking like the Norwegians would be like, this is this is like summer to us. What is this? Like they I don't see why they would need to train in Scotland, but trained they were.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And the reason why they were trained for extreme weather and extreme conditions is because of the location of the Vimark power plant, or I guess heavy water plant. It was in a really forbidding place that you would not want to go to without like a car.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
I think it actually means like wide mountain plateau.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
I looked it up because I thought so too. I was like, that's got to be like the name of a god that's going to kill you or something. Yeah, Hardanga. It means high mountain plateau.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah. And after the war, who knows who's going to need that stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah. It was a little bit of national pride, too, that was driving it. So he actually talked them out of it. The allies or the Americans, I guess, were put off for a little while. And they're like, all right, you go ahead and do your little sabotage thing. Let's see how you do. Yeah. So that whole group of Norwegian resistance fighters was called Company Ling.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And Company Ling kind of made it over as the group of trained saboteurs from the Special Operations Executive. So Company Ling, they launched an operation, Operation Grouse. Great operation name.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
But they apparently the SOA didn't think so because they renamed it Operation Swallow.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And the whole thing was led by a guy named Jens Anton Poulsen, which I think I nailed just then.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Oh, man. I semi-nailed it. No, you had it except for that, but that's okay. Okay. So Jens Anton Poulsen led, I think, three other resistance fighters who parachuted back in Norway and essentially just became backwoodsmen for months.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
I'm pretty sure it's the same thing as an umlaut.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
setting up like a camp literally in like a trapper's cabin and lived off hunting reindeer and just basically became the first little toehold of this operation of Norwegian resistance fighters coming back to sabotage the Wehrmacht plant.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah, a couple of times. Really?
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
I don't know. I'm sure somebody sells reindeer meat in like somewhere weird, like Missouri or something.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
We always have some across the pond here. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah, so Operation Freshman was, like you said, the idea was just storm the heavy water plant, overwhelm it, and blow it up. And they decided instead, okay, instead of sending 39 soldiers with a ton of equipment, including bicycles, I read, we'll just try a more subtle touch. So they went to, oh, man, Joaquin Runeberg. Nice. who was 23 at the time.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And they're like, you're basically an old band in World War II standards. Why don't you lead a team for Operation Gunnerside? And this is finally the operation that this whole episode is based on. And it was a small tactical saboteur team who went to the heavy water plant to destroy the Vemarks heavy water production capabilities.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
I don't know. I don't think he's opposed to making a sequel or a reboot. I mean, Snatch was basically lock, stock and two smoking barrels done over again.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Oh, I see. You were just kind of taking a little sidestep in the logical direction, right? Yeah. I didn't follow. First one back. Yep, there you go. So, yeah, I think the first one was pretty good. I don't know about the second one. Was that any good? I didn't see any of them. The first one was not bad.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
If you don't let yourself stop and think, like, who would have the audacity to make Sherlock Holmes like a rough and tumble action hero and just kind of give yourself over to it, it's pretty good.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Same here, man. Same here. Welcome back yourself. So, yeah, we're talking today about one of the more unsung operations of World War II. Unsung, I guess, depending on where you live. If you live in Norway, it's sung all over the place. It's like a top 40 hit there. It's sung so much.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
We have to do a Sherlock Holmes episode at least one. We haven't done that? No, not as far as I know.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
It's going to be like our chess or our soccer episode, though, I have a feeling.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
It's a whole hornet's nest we're going to stick our heads in.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
The guy who does my hair is a former Juggalo.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Hey, I don't think the other people let you leave that world behind.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
It's threatening. So where were we, Chuck? Oh, yeah, Gunnerside.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah, I mean, they accepted cyanide pills as part of this operation. And yeah, they had no idea what they were doing. They just knew they had to go blow up some pipes and that was that. Like, this is how dedicated these people were, that they were willing to sacrifice their life to try to blow up some pipes because the Brits told them it was going to help cripple the Nazi war effort. So...
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
I think there was five of them that parachuted in just like the Operation Swallow people had before. But they were miles, miles away from the landing site. They just maybe got blown off course or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And it took them five days of trudging through the snow, although I think they might have had skis, to find the Operation Swallow people who'd been sitting there eating reindeer the whole time. Yeah. And even when they found them in this trapper's cabin and hooked up with them, and now there's nine people in this operation, they were still 40 miles away from the heavy water plant.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And again, it's like snowy in February in Norway. You can just imagine.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah. It took a little while, didn't it, weirdly?
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
But here in the U.S., we don't know about it as much because we were kind of tangential to it, if at all. It was more a joint operation between the Brits and the Norwegians, the Norwegian resistance, we should say. And the whole thing is called Operation Gunnerside.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah. And again, not just going down into a gorge, crossing a half frozen river and climbing up a cliff, get to the top of the gorge on the other side where the heavy water plant was. And apparently that route was such an unlikely route that the Nazis didn't even bother guarding the gorge.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Exactly. So February 27th, they made it for the 40 miles to their target. I think it was the night like right before midnight. This team of nine saboteurs from Company Linje, the Norwegian resistance, are sitting there outside of the Bemarck power plant, figuring out exactly how they're going to get in. And they decided that they would split up. There were five of them.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And as they were sitting outside, they were faced with their first obstacle, which was a fence. And apparently the Brits had said, there's a fence. So here's a handsaw. And the guy who was in charge, who was it? Rundberg?
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
His second in command, Canute Huckleid, We're like running through these Norwegian names, man.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Okay. So, and I know it's Knut. I always thought it was Newt, but it's Knut. Yeah. Because I watched this cool little Nova special and he was interviewed and they definitely said Knut. Yeah. He said, Rundberg, don't you have some bolt cutters? And Rundberg gave him the bolt cutters.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And instead of this loud, tedious, laborious hacksaw that they would have tried to use and probably gotten caught using, they just snipped right through the fence in a few minutes, thanks to Rundberg's foresight back in Cambridge.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
I don't even know if it was that many. Maybe not. As important as this heavy water plant was to the atomic program in Germany. Yeah. It was so remote that they were just like, you know, I think it's going to take a few people. We got mines. There's a gorge. We got people on the bridge. It's fine.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And I have to say, I want to give a big thanks to one of our listeners, Matthew Memalt Bouchard, who suggested this one, I think back in November.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
You know they wanted to do that so bad.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
I just want to circle back and emphasize the fact that this man was a linchpin to a sabotage plan. All he had to do was show up to work and leave a door open.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Right. And my guess, this is 1943. There's an 85% chance that his illness was a severe hangover, which makes it even worse.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
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Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
So, yeah, luckily, yes, they found that that hatch was open in the cable shaft and they basically slid through. The two who made it through the cable shaft was Rundberg, the leader, and a guy named Frederick. Frederick. Yeah. Kaiser.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Frederick. Not Frederick. Yeah. Eat your heart out, Frederick.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And it went right to the top of the list. So here we are talking about it now in January.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
I like Frederick. That's how we say it in America. Anyway, Kaiser and Rundberg, they were the ones who went down this cable shaft and they start getting busy. I think Kaiser was holding a gun. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What? They're like, we have some extra time. Sorry. Go ahead. So, yes, and they went down a shaft even as well. You're right. And so almost immediately they found a watchman.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
I take him to be a Norwegian watchman maybe. And they were like, you know, you're now our hostage. Sit there and be quiet. And he's like, no problem. You guys do whatever you want. And despite his complicity, Kaiser was like, this is my one chance. And so he chloroformed the watchman anyway. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And so as he's doing this, Rundberg went and planted the explosives on the pipes, just as he was told to do. And right about then, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, there's an explosion of glass as a window shatters. And Rundberg and Kaiser and the chloroform guard all turn and look, and the other two men from the other explosives team come in through the window.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah. So the whole thing kind of starts off, I think back in like 1939, when some German physicists figured out that you could split the atom through fission and release a bunch of energy. And very, very quickly after that, the physicists around the world were like, this is really great. We can come up with a whole new source of energy for it. This could also be an extremely dangerous weapon.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
I can't help but imagining like a Sergeant Schultz type stumbling out.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
So, yeah, it wasn't a big deal. And as a matter of fact, I mean, it turned out to be a big deal, but like, yeah, it didn't cause like that huge explosion where guards start coming out of nowhere. And, you know, there's alarms going off and searchlights coming on. It wasn't anything like that. And in fact, all nine people who were the saboteurs in this operation got away.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
They escaped scot-free and escaped. In retrospect, not a single bullet was fired and not a single person died in this highly successful, amazingly daring sabotage operation.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
If you're driving right now, look around. I'll wait. All those cars you see, they're all probably on autotrader.com.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And right after that, World War Two started and the allies started working on the bomb and they assumed that the Nazis were also working on a bomb. So that's kind of like the the mentality that was going on with this story really starts.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
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Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah, like this heavy water plant was in this basement of a power plant. So it was not easy to get to as far as like aerial bombs are concerned.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah, for real. But the thing is, it did show the Nazis that like, hey, this remote, isolated, actually surprisingly vulnerable plant. Yeah. That's like the one source of our heavy water. We should probably stop creating heavy water there and move the operations to Germany. So they did. And remember, the Nazi heavy water program is set back a few months.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And this is at a time where the Allies are racing in the Manhattan Project to create the atomic bomb. Assuming the Nazis are in the same race as them, the Allies understand that like we can do this in like two, three years. Right. So to set back a Nazi atomic program three months is an enormous setback in a two or three year race to become the first to come up with an atomic bomb.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
So from that standpoint, even at the time, they were like, that was a very successful operation, even though, like you said, the Nazis got back up to full capacity in just a couple of months. But as we said, they were moving everything to Germany.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And I guess the company Linga crew, the Norwegian freedom fighters, they were keeping an eye on all the movements of the heavy water from, I guess, their moles inside the heavy water plant. And they knew that the Nazis were going to move the heavy water and when they were going to do it and how they were going to do it.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
That was the Nova mini documentary I watched. It was really good.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
But one of the things that they cover in that, the reason why... the Allies were like, maybe those were dummies, is that there were reports of survivors of that ferry sinking that barrels had been floating. Like some people were trying to like climb onto the barrels to survive. They're like, heavy water is not supposed to float in regular water.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And so they were like, it's possible that this was a decoy because also intelligence showed that some heavy water did arrive in Germany. Well, it turns out, thanks to this NOVA special, I'm about to spoil it, that those barrels that floated were the most pure form of heavy water that they had at Wehrmacht. The barrels weren't full, and so the air inside the barrels was making them float. Wow.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yes. So it was heavy water that they sabotaged. They did put a dent in the amount of heavy water. I think there was a 15 ton shipment and the Germans were only able to collect, I think, the four that were floating. So it was a big deal, too. But again, 18 people lost their lives for 14 of them. Innocent Norwegians. Yeah. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And I think that's that's actually something they wrestle with in the Nova documentary because they interview some of these people we've talked about. And they're, you know, they're trying to reconcile their guilt with, you know, how impactful the mission was, especially living for decades with that gnawing rumor in the back of their head that those have been dummy barrels.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah. So I think they were quite relieved to find that it really was heavy water. And still there's debate today over even with the success of Gunnerside, even with the success of that Swallow Group sinking of the hydro ferry, how much of an impact it really had on Germany's atomic program. And in fact, how much of a program Germany had during World War II to build an atomic bomb.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
So they were basically, they took a wrong turn right out of the gate with what they chose as a moderator. I think like, did you say earlier that the United States chose graphite, right?
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah, well, they're both really great moderators, but graphite is available in abundance. You can find it anywhere, right?
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Heavy water is really hard to come by. So right out of the gate, the Germans chose a moderator that was really difficult to get and that there was only one place basically in the world that was producing it, whereas the Americans just went out and bought a bunch of graphite at the grocery store, basically, to use as their moderator.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
So right away, that first hurdle the Americans overcame, the Germans ran into. And the most interesting thing is it was based on a miscalculation.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah, so I think whoever conducted, I can't remember their names, but they conducted experiments on the viability of graphite as a moderator, and they basically forgot to carry a one or something. I think what it really was is they didn't factor in the influence of impurities in their graphite sample, and they concluded that graphite wasn't a very good moderator, so let's use heavy water instead.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
So essentially, even before the program started, The Nazi atomic program was just dead in the water, basically.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yes, but the Allies didn't know this. And it turns out that just the idea that the Nazis were involved in heavy water production suggested that they were after an atomic bomb and that the Allies then were in a foot race against them. And that led to the creation of an actual atomic bomb. So the Nazis directly influenced the production of an atomic bomb, even though it wasn't theirs.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
They'd be like, what does this mean? And they'd be like, just drink this huge gallon of beer and shut up.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah, which is sad. At least he did get to oversee and fly in on Operation Sunshine. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Maybe. So, Chuck, I think that's it for the Norwegian sabotage operation gunner side. We haven't figured out what we're going to name this episode.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Oh, man, it's one of the better ones.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah. And the reason why is because deuterium has a neutron where hydrogen doesn't. That's the only difference. I mean, it's still you could cook with it. You could bathe in it. You probably wouldn't really notice any difference because it's two atomic units heavier. So it's not like you would like be crushed down to the shower floor if you had it running through your house or anything. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Pretty great stuff. Sense of humor. Really good. Well, thanks, Olivia, for that. And thanks to you for listening. And how about we set up a listener mail so I can thank that person, too.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah, including Sketch Fest. We've gotten a lot of emails from people who's like, the Sketch Fest schedule is wrong because it doesn't have Stuff You Should Know on there, right? And yes, we're sorry to inform you, we're not going to be at Sketch Fest for, what, the first time in like 10 years maybe or something? Many years.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah, and ironically, I just reached diamond status for 2025. Oh, I've never been diamond. I couldn't believe it. I got the email, and I forwarded it to Yumi. I was like, well, now I know it's going to be written on my headstone.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
What else, man? That's it. Okay. Well, thank you very much to... Justin Meeks. Justin Meeks, whose grandma has a great story and who I assume did not go on to become Letterman's stalker.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
If you want to be like Justin and email us a pretty cool story about David Letterman or otherwise, you can send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
The kid. The kid's using heavy water. Exactly. Give him kids black eyes at that thing. Yeah. So but the reason that it was useful or is useful still in nuclear reactions is because of that neutron that it has. Right. So when you carry out a nuclear reaction that produces an explosion, you have an uncontrolled nuclear reaction.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
That's the one that where it just goes kaboom and a huge amount of energy is released at once.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yes, for the bomb part. But to make the stuff that actually blows up, usually plutonium, you have to carry out controlled nuclear reactions. And to make it controlled, to kind of bring some order to the chaos and slow things down just enough that it will never explode, yet it will still produce energy that you can use to create plutonium if you bash uranium with a bunch of neutrons.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
You add a moderator, and heavy water is a moderator because all those fast neutrons bouncing around will knock into the heavy water, and it will transfer energy to the heavy water's neutrons, but it slows the process down. In the same way, you couldn't use regular water because regular water would be like, oh, thanks for the free neutron, chump. and turn into heavy water, I guess.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
So regular water wouldn't work. Heavy water would work. The problem is, is heavy water is really, really rare.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
I just show up with my note cards and a blazer.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
I disagree. You're always so hard on yourself. You were great, man. You were you were at least as good as I was. And that's to say you were middling.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Well, thank you. I appreciate that. It was probably from a year spent as an emo drama kid.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah, that was like the space one, right?
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah. So Tronstad was one of these early people who was like, hey, this is weird and different and new, and we can figure out how to get at least very small amounts of it. And there's got to be some cool uses for this, like scientific non-weapony uses. And one of the ones that he thought of very early on was used as a tracer.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Which I guess you give somebody a glass of heavy water and then, you know, look at their kidneys and see if there's heavy water coming out of them and be like, well, there's your leak. Right. That's what I think.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
You got a word like Norse in front of you, you're talking Norway.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah, from like liters and liters and gallons of water, they would just get the tiniest amounts. Because I still don't quite understand how they were doing it, but essentially they were separating out this 1 in 20 million molecule of heavy water from regular mountain water. Norse black magic. Yeah. And so like the whole plant was originally a hydroelectric power plant.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And then they converted to using electrolysis to, I think, create ammonia, which is very handy in fertilizers and explosives. And then it was Tronstadt who was like, we need to set up basically a separate heavy water operation. So by the time World War II broke out, the plant at Wehrmacht, I'm pretty sure I said that right, Wehrmacht in Vermindy, Morgan Mindy. We're Morgan for Mindy. I got it.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Okay. It just took a second. I was like, well, I'm going to laugh at it.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too. And I guess it's a new year because I just had the spirit of John Strickland pass through me when I welcomed everybody. Did you hear that? Enthusiastic, hey?
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
That's a quality joke. Thank you. By that time, that plant was the world leader in heavy water production.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah, it was like a secret resistance, right? And one of those people was Tronstad, at least at first. And then it became clear that he basically needed to get out of Dodge. So he ditched and went to – I think he went straight to the U.K. Because after the Nazis set up this program, like it was – It was not a pleasant place to be when they took over Norway.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And the whole thing, Chuck, reminded me of, do you remember way, way, way early in the podcast, we stumbled upon Simo Haya, the white death, the Finnish sniper who was just like a farm boy. Yeah, totally. Who like I think killed more Russians than anybody else in the war. Uh-huh. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Yeah. I just remembered Simo Haya. So I thought I'd give him a shout out.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
So but Lief Transtad, he became like a really valuable asset because this guy is like the world leader in heavy water production.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
Who has all of the inside dirt on the place where the most heavy water is being produced. And it's very clear now that the Nazis have taken over this plant and stepped it up from like a few milliliters a day to like, I think, a few kilograms of heavy water a day. that they have designs on making an atomic bomb.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And with the Allies, the three words Nazi atomic bomb was among the most frightening combination of words you could possibly come up with. And even today, you know, you're like, God, a Nazi atomic bomb, that'd be horrible. And then you remember, oh yeah, the Americans dropped two atomic bombs on population centers, and that was pretty bad too. Yet still, somehow a Nazi atomic bomb seems even worse.
Stuff You Should Know
WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside
And that feels like a pretty good place for a break. I think it is, yes.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
But it makes you so much more mindful that a lot of people just eventually end up being vegetarian just by following a kosher diet. There's also halal is very similar. It has all sorts of permissions and bans and stuff like that on what animals can be eaten. But it's different in that, like, there's no shellfish allowed or birds of prey, but you can eat rabbits.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
But they're both similar-ish in that you really have to pay attention to what you're eating if you are a genuine adherent of this religious diet that's being prescribed to you.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
There's, I think, so this is another thing too, like a lot of people just end up being default vegetarians because of their religious diet. And another good example is the Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Church, which we talked about in our Hali Selassie episode, I think. They have 200 days a year that are considered fast days where you just can't eat meat, but you can eat plants.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
So, I mean, for all intents and purposes, you're at least the majority of the year a vegetarian if you're Ethiopian Orthodox.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, remember they grew out of that whole William Keith and John Kellogg movement of the 19th century.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah. Buddhism is very connected to vegetarianism, like a straightforward religious decree like kosher. Instead, it's linked to nonviolence, right? So if your religion forbids violence, you can't really cut the head off of a chicken and eat it very easily. People still do in Buddhist countries, but it's much more or it's much less common and frequent.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
And in fact, apparently in Japan from 675 to 1872, meat was essentially banned in that country because of the influence of Buddhism and Confucianism.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
You just follow it around like a buzzard. He's not looking so good. He looks a little peaking.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Oh, my God. You just won the band name contest, Chuck, for all time. But everyone would be like, who's peaked and who's peckish?
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
It wouldn't matter. We could both be. It would depend on our mood on any given day.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, it's also, I mean, especially since the Hindu Nationalist Ruling Party took over, the Bharatiya Janata Party, BJP, they have been enforcing like really strict rules that are Hindu in nature against eating meat so much so that people have been beaten.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
I think one person at least has been lynched for eating meat or being associated with the meat trade, specifically beef, because cows are considered sacred in Hinduism. And also, similarly, in India, vegetarianism is linked to social status. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
In basically complete contradiction of what it's like in, say, the West where, you know, eating meat has long been associated with being an elite or having high status. Vegetarianism is in India, apparently.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, and if you're like, wow, 80% of Hindus are vegetarian, it's pretty impressive. Prepare for this. Jains, these are the people who are so against hurting or killing anything that they have little hand dust brooms that they carry with them to dust off seats before they sit down so they don't accidentally kill a bug. 92% of them and 59% of Sikhs in India are all vegetarians.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
I guess so. I mean, like, how would you show up to like the Jane meeting and show your face?
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
No, of course not. I'm sure they'd show up and be like natural causes.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Also, the way so these are like if you want to start to get into vegetarianism, these are some easy ways to kind of slide into it. Another one is changing the way that you think about meat rather than it being the center or the star of the meal. Just kind of put it to the side like it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, a thumb size piece of steak.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
But I mean, if it more, you know, kind of evenly resembled the grain or the greens on your plate, that would make that would make a lot more sense.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Right. It's funny. So I use thumb. So have you ever heard that thing about a portion of meat being no bigger than the palm of your hand?
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
So not just that if you cup your hands that you're serving a fruit and vegetables and then your thumb is your measure of fats like a nut butter or something like that. There's a name for all this. It's called the Zimbabwe hand jive.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Well, so this guy in 1993, Dr. Kazim Maugi, came up with this way of doing it. It's been widely adopted, but I had no idea that's what it was called.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah. You should just set up a carving station and ask to see each person's thumb size.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
So let's see. What else? Oh, another good one is to choose different fats, avocados, olive oil, stuff like that. And then just cook at least one vegetarian meal per week.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah. And if you start doing these kind of things, it's actually really easy to find yourself down the road, like just doing it without thinking about it. And more and more meals throughout the week become vegetarian because we'll talk in a minute about why people do this. But a lot of people stop eating as much meat for health reasons or because they want to lose weight.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
And if you just kind of start, like you said, dip your toe in like this, it just becomes kind of second nature over time.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
No, this is a big one for me. Chuck is eating fruit for dessert because I don't ever eat something and like a meal of any kind and not think like, OK, now I have to have something sweet.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, they all seem to fall under the umbrella term, like you said, a plant-based diet. So like a vegan diet is a plant-based diet, but not all plant-based diets are like vegan diets.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah. Okay. So if you just eat like an apple or some strawberries or something like that, it just short circuits that. It does it for you.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Just one, and it's dark chocolate. Oh, you don't like dark chocolate? It's fine, but it's not going to short circuit that dessert.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, good. I'm glad. I'm glad to hear that. I'm going to cut the legs out from under you in a little while then.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Right. And then the last one is after you do all these things, eat more vegetables, eat a vegetarian meal once a week, eat a salad for dinner. This is actually the key to the whole thing. Go to bed really early so that your normal breakfast will come much more quickly.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Okay. Well, thanks for the laugh support. You want to take a break and then come back and talk about why people become vegetarian or vegan? Sure. Okay. Well, we'll be right back again. We'll be right back.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, understandable. There's also ovo-vegetarian. These are terrible names, by the way.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Okay, Chuck, I think I promised before we left that we'd talk about why people become vegetarian. I already said health reasons, which we'll get into more in a little while. But a lot of people just do it because it's just healthier. Like if you want to eat healthier, most people don't like double or triple down on fried chicken.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Like you instead start turning to plants, you know, like people just start eating more plants and it's almost intuitive, right? I don't think it even has anything to do with the nutritionist set in the United States convincing people like plants are healthy. I just feel like we just intuitively know that that is healthier than eating like a steak or again, fried chicken.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
I feel like there's a place for fried chicken. I'm not knocking that.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, and there's a lot of variety in just legumes alone. Like rather than do you want the chicken or the fish, there's something like 20,000 species of legumes. And I didn't know this. I ran across this, Chuck. There's a category of food called neglected and underutilized legumes.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
No, it means that you include ovum in your diet. But I should say it's not a vegan diet at all. Like you can't have any kind of animal products in a vegan diet. Not just like meat or dairy or eggs, but like vegan won't eat honey. We talked about fig wasps recently. They won't eat figs for that reason.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
They even have an acronym for NULs, right? And there's apparently a ton of legumes that are found around the world that are known to like local cuisine that are just waiting to be adopted to kind of make the plant-based diet even more varied.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
No, I know what you mean. Yeah. I just had a night. So one of the ones I found was the Bombara ground nut. You would make a trillion dollars if instead of a mayonnaise operation, you opened a Bombara ground nut operation in Brooklyn. Yeah, for sure. I mean, you would make so much cash, dude, overnight. People just like saying ground nut.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, but that Bambara really sells the groundnut, if you ask me.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah. And the medical consensus is and remains so that eating red meat, too much red meat is bad for you. Like it just leads to all sorts of negative health outcomes like stroke and heart attack, heart disease, things like that. The problem is, despite that consensus, studies still come out fairly regularly that question that idea that say, no, it's not necessarily true.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
And they usually get shouted down. But it's enough that it makes like some people question that. I feel like because the medical consensus is that for now, it's probably OK to kind of follow that philosophy that less meat is healthier than more meat.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, that's a whole subcategory of veganism called ethical vegans. And I think that they could shoulder their own episode because the whole philosophy behind it and like the way that they live their lives, it's really interesting. And something I ran across that they counter is the idea of carnism, eating meat, not being normal. And we just take it for normal. And they... They question that.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
They're like, who said that eating meat is normal? And that that's like why people like me can feel bad when I pass like a truck full of cows on their way to the slaughter on the highway and then still go eat like a cheeseburger that same day. That we just kind of have this idea that carnism is normal and vegans are like, no, that's not true. So I found that fascinating.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, I think that's how people get to that from like religious mandated diets.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Okay, let's pick up health outcomes. Let's dive into that a little more. So one of the things that people figure out pretty quickly when they become vegans in particular is that you can get really unhealthy really quick just eating food that qualifies as vegan food. There's a ton of processed vegan food out there. A lot of times, a lot of sweetener, including just sugar, is added.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
And just basically eating packaged food or even French fries, as long as they're cooked in vegetable oil, those are vegan. And everyone knows that French fries aren't really good for you. So there is like a whole kind of blind alley that you have to watch out for when you get into veganism.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Okay. I'll bet there's some that still won't. Oh, sure. And then there's also lacto-ovo-vegetarian. You're a vegetarian, but you eat eggs and dairy. There's lacto-ovo-bacon-vegetarian. And then there's what you said, Emily, was pescatarian, which is, I mean, you're essentially just, you know, you're eating more vegetables than the average person at this point if you're a pescatarian, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
I would say the ideal diet. I mean, as far as health outcomes go, like I can't imagine how much this diet has been studied. And result after result shows that like some kinds of cancers, diabetes, cognitive decline, cardiovascular disease, like these things are all lower in people who eat like a Mediterranean diet.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Like that's just what they eat than people who don't, especially regular meat eaters.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, that's a longstanding chestnut in like the, I guess, I don't want to say bodybuilding community, just people who work out like hardcore that you can't possibly be ripped as a vegan. And our Stuff You Should Know listener, Doyle Wolfgang von Frankenstein, the guitarist for the Misfits, he is just vegan to the core. And he is totally ripped.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
And in fact, he has his own protein powder called Vegan Monster Protein. where you can get ripped yourself if you want to and still be a vegan.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
That's a big deal, too. I mean, like that is a well-known problem for vegans and vegetarians because B12 is used for red blood cell production, cell wall production, nerve function, DNA production. And it's just not in plants. It's in meat. It's in fish. It's in dairy.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
So you really have to pay attention to that and basically take B12 supplements all the time to make sure you don't become deficient because it's not good.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, so part of it is that B12 deficiency because B12 helps produce bone and so bone density. But I also wondered if vegans typically get less protein and therefore have less muscle mass. On average, obviously you can get ripped as a vegan, but not everyone does.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
If you're more susceptible to falling, like you can lose your balance more easily because you have slightly less muscle mass than a meat eater. And then with less bone density, if you do fall, you're more likely to break a bone. Just my, I wonder.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, another thing that surprised me is that vegetarians have a 20% higher risk of having a hemorrhagic stroke. So we should say all of this data came from a 2021 analysis of this British cohort of 65,000 Brits that have been followed around since the 90s. So they managed to look at 20,000 vegetarians. So this is a pretty robust study. And they found that they have a 20% higher risk of stroke.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
They couldn't determine that for vegans. I think they only had like 2,500 in this cohort. But for stroke, at least, they weren't able to figure out how that affects vegans. You would assume that it would be an even higher percentage for vegans. But a hemorrhagic stroke is where blood vessels in your brain start bleeding. Again, that would make sense because B12 helps fortify cell walls.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Oh, yeah. Not just your butt, but like the well-being of people around you, too.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
And I would think the lack of red blood cell production would have something to do with that, too. So I think what we're trying to say, the upshot is, is it's not just like a slam dunk that you're going to be healthier or your lifetime health outcomes are automatically going to be better.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
But it's still I mean, it's just if you're overall or sorry, if you're all dash cause mortality is going to be the same, then I don't know. I think that kind of makes an argument to eat whichever makes you feel best.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah. So there's a lot of misleading stats out there that compare the amount of kilograms of greenhouse gas emissions compared to the kilograms produced of something, right? That doesn't make any sense because a kilogram of broccoli is a lot less as far as... food being spread among people than a kilogram, 2.2 pounds of beef, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Nice. Well, not the part that you're not as healthy, but I'm glad that she is.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
You can feed way more people with 2.2 pounds of beef than you can with 2.2 pounds of broccoli.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Exactly, at best. Yeah. But so some people have said, well, let's just alter it a little bit. So we'll measure the kilograms of greenhouse gas emissions for every thousand calories produced. And so that makes it a lot more apples to apples comparison.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
But even still, when you alter it like that, the numbers essentially come out the same, which is that meat production has a much larger carbon footprint than almost any kind of plant production. Although there are some surprises, like, for example, your beloved dark chocolate has a larger carbon footprint than producing poultry or pork, Chuck.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
How do you feel about your dark chocolate with salt on top of it now?
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
For sure. The reason why, apparently, is demand. There's so much demand for chocolate that the deforestation that results to create more fields for cocoa production, that just is what's giving it such a huge footprint. And I think coffee is relatively the same.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Overall, though, I found a 2019 study from Sustainability, the journal, and they basically said vegetarians have 33 percent lower greenhouse gas emissions based on their diet than meat. And a vegan diet has 53 percent lower greenhouse gas emissions. It's just that's just how it goes.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, beef is just the worst offender of all. But livestock, raising livestock in general, apparently one-fifth to one-quarter of all the water used by humans goes to raising livestock, which is nuts. But the reason why is because not only do you need water to keep that head of cattle alive until you decide to kill it, you also need water to grow the grain that you feed that head of cattle.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
So they're just consuming all over the place, especially as far as water is concerned.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah. And who considers an almond a vegetable? Come on, give it up.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
I haven't had one yet. Well, peanuts apparently are a ground nut. I have not had the Bambara ground nut yet, so I should wait and reserve judgment.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yes. And there was another thing that I came across that I was kind of surprised by, totally makes sense, is if we en masse as a species, humans, essentially abandoned livestock production, beef production or meat production in favor of a plant-based diet, just basically globally.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
the chance of communicable diseases developing would drop drastically because 75% of emerging communicable diseases are zoonotic, which means humans get them from animals, and we make our closest contact with animals through the livestock industry.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah. I mean, as long as it wasn't grown in a lab, you can kiss communicable diseases goodbye.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, that really kind of came home to me when I converted it to quarter pounders. Yeah, what's that? Or in Europe, Royale with cheese. That's 1,332 quarter pounders a year. That means you're eating almost four quarter pounders worth of meat a day every year at 151.4 kilograms. Man, if only you could do that and live. That's called heaven, my friend.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
It really does. So, yeah, I mean, this is we've just kind of touched the surface, especially on the environmental impact. There's a lot to dig into there if that interested you. But I feel like we gave some good reasons for people to adopt a plant based diet. I don't know if I'm going to fully, but I'd like to think it's I'm kind of partway there already.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, I've cut my four quarter pounders with cheese every day in half. And I eat both halves. Since Chuck kind of laughed at my last joke, I think everybody, that means we should probably slog along to listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Well, thanks a lot, Tate. That is awesome. Congratulations on your awesome hobby and getting so good at it. And we really appreciate you letting us know that we had some sort of small, tiny impact on you. We love hearing that kind of thing. If you want to be like Tate and let us know that we had some small, tiny impact on you, please send it via email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah. So, I mean, that's not too bad. They're really holding things up. Because, I mean, actually, that's the majority. You're saying the majority of the world is plant-based diet.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Okay. Yeah, we'll go around the world in a minute, but let's go through history for a little bit first, okay? Because plant-based diets, especially in the West, they're kind of like a new thing. Maybe they came out of the New Age movement in the 70s and 80s. No. This is really old stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
In fact, you can make a really good case that plant-based diets, especially like a flexitarian version, is essentially the default diet of humans. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, for sure. This was before the famine when a potato blight came. And when the Irish immigrants really started to come en masse to the United States in the 19th century, they were quite surprised at the abundance and availability and cheapness of meat in the United States.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
And that apparently dates back to colonial times where colonists in, well, what would become the United States were eating more meat than the average person back in England. They were eating essentially the same amount of meat as elites back in the U.K., And that's the longstanding thing where meat consumption throughout history in most places is associated with a higher status, an elite status.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
You're wealthier because it's always been harder to come by. Well, the colonies had a lot more land, so they could grow a lot more livestock and then hence eat a lot more meat.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here too, and this is a good old-fashioned rootin' tootin' down-home episode of Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Right. And Italy followed the same trajectory that most nations do. Once they reach a certain point of prosperity, meat consumption just starts going through the roof. Whereas before in history, elites, like individual groups of people who are well off or could afford meat, when an entire nation becomes well off enough, they start buying meat, meat consumption just goes up.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
So after the war, Italy followed that. And you'll see like throughout the world, the more prosperous a nation, the higher their meat consumption almost to a country.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah. And that that diet has just spread throughout the world. But again, it doesn't necessarily seem to mean because people are emulating the United States. It just seems like the United States was following a trajectory that other countries are now.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
I don't know. One thing that I recognized from researching this is that there are so many stats that are so different and estimates that are just so different and don't understand why it's so hard to track something like meat consumption. Like we've got that so commoditized that, I mean, I don't understand how we can't track it.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Even for the United States, you rattled off three different estimates for how much meat the United States eats. So who knows, Chuck, who really knows whether any of these numbers are correct or not?
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Oh, I get that all the time. Usually because I have like a big chunk of like steak in my teeth.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Right. Yeah. I'm guessing from what I could tell, the United States leads the world in meat consumption. I'm sure. Most other countries, depending on where they are, are going to eat a lot less. But again, like you said, Africa is not some single monolith. It has a bunch of different variation. Asia is the same way. On the whole, Asia eats far less meat compared to one another.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Some eat more, some eat less. And you get all sorts of weird little statistical blips that come up from that.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, yeah. I was going to ask you, old school, Chuck, have you ever eaten a plant?
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, and Taiwan's a good example, too. It has a very high percentage of vegetarians, but it also has a really high per capita meat consumption, too. So it's just basically wacky over there.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah. I would guess Thailand and I'm not sure about Laos, but I would guess Thailand is, um, wealthier. than probably Myanmar or Indonesia. I don't know about Vietnam, but I think a lot of it also has to do with the religious, like what religions are predominant there too.
Stuff You Should Know
Plant-Based Diets
Yeah, some of the most famous ones are kosher. That's a big one where you have to actually separate certain kinds of food. Like you separate meat, you separate dairy. There's also like restrictions and guidelines on how animals are slaughtered. So it's not particularly vegetarian by nature, keeping kosher is.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And so Bruno was like, maybe we should just replace this with an actual board and tiles. And that really kind of helped move things along a bunch.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Okay, so the year before that, I've seen it told as a legend or a widely told story, Laura put it. I don't know why no one's like, yeah, that's what happened. But supposedly the president of Macy's came across the game. I'm not sure how. Played it, liked it, ordered a bunch to stock up. Of course, that meant Gimbels immediately followed suit. And so the game took off from there.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
So this would have been 1952. when that supposedly happened.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff You Should Know. Good old-fashioned pop culture games edition. Yeah. And yeah, here we are, finally talking about Scrabble. I've been asking for you to do this with me for... at least a decade and you kept refusing. I still don't know why.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, and Bruno was like, we can't possibly keep up with this demand. Like, this has just skyrocketed, which is great. But they turned to a company, a game maker called Celcho and Ryder, and they took over making the game. And they did so for... They were the people who made Scrabble for a really long time.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Within two years, two years of that great Macy's president story happening, four and a half million copies were sold. Like it just hit America like, you know, a giant packet of Pop Rocks and Diet Coke. Fermentos.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
This is one of the more heartwarming quotes I've come across in a while. Agreed. He was interviewed in 1984 about his invention. And he said, people are always asking me if I'm rich. I used to get two to three cents for each game sold. One third went to taxes. I gave one third away. And the other third enabled me to have an enjoyable life. Great.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And if there's such thing as heaven, I believe that Mr. Butts is there right now.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Uh, okay. Well, there you go. You had a great life, apparently. I love it. So, um, things turned kind of dark when the Cabbage Patch Kids bought Selcho and Ryder in 1986.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Well, you must be a Scrabblist because that would just be like the word construct without any kind of meaning to it. So you're in there, Chuck. You really did some method research. Yeah, maybe so. So Coleco, yes, bought Selcho and Ryder and just did not really give much of a care about Scrabble. I mean, it was just a moneymaker to them. Apparently they were already in trouble, which is nuts.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
That they declared bankruptcy by 1989. I can't remember. Surely we talked about it in our Cabbage Patch Kids episode why that happened. But to go from having one of the hottest toys in the history of toys to bankrupt in the same decade is breathtaking. Yeah. As far as business goes. But when Coleco declared bankruptcy, Hasbro stepped in and they did seem to care a lot more about Scrabble.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And so under their ownership, I think it's still owned by Hasbro, if I'm not mistaken. It's been fine. It's had its ups and downs, as we'll see. But there was also a bidding war for the international rights to produce Scrabble. And Mattel beat them out for that. Right. And that I can't imagine what a plum that is.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
But it also occurred to me, and I know we've done an episode on intellectual property, but there's some fictitious right out there that says this one company is allowed to produce all the games just internationally. This other company has this other fictitious right to produce all of the games just inside of the United States.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And it's just so mind blowing to me that we've just kind of created that kind of made up structure for things and how much just gobs of money that legal fiction creates for people.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
No, not necessarily. I don't have a problem with it. I was more just astounded by it, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, it was really cute to just kind of follow along.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah. Anybody who knows Hodgman, too, right when they saw the Scrabble episode of Stuff You Should Know, knew that there was a 100% chance that Hodgman was going to come up at some point in time, for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
I meant, hell yeah, buddy. All right. Sorry, you can't see me, but I'm raising the roof right now. Yeah, let's do it. So you mentioned competitive Scrabble, that there are tournaments, which isn't very surprising. I mean, people are into Scrabble, so... When you start throwing money down for prize money for tournaments, people are going to flock to them.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And for years, the biggest Scrabble tournament, what they called Nationals, was the North American Invitational Scrabble Players Tournament, which had its inaugural championship in 1978. And was held every year through to 2009. And Selcho and Ryder actually formed the National Scrabble Association, which was very smart because that kind of thing generates a lot of interest, enthusiasm.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Newspapers cover, oh, it's so crazy. There's a Scrabble championship right now. And like it just helps keep the thing topical, you know. Instead of just letting people buy it and crossing your fingers, that kind of thing. It was a pretty smart business venture. And then, like I said, Coleco came along. They did nothing for it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Apparently the Players Association had to shame Coleco into chipping in $5,000 for prize money for the national tournament. And then when Hasbro came along, they started funding it a lot more lavishly. But then they kind of said, you know, this isn't actually worth it anymore. You guys are, you know, maybe a few hundred people coming to these tournaments.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And you all have all of the Scrabble boards that you're ever going to need. You're not going to buy any more. So they stopped funding those. And they actually shut down the National Scrabble Association. So an independent version came up, the North American Scrabble Players Association. I think back in 2009 is when it was formed.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yes, because those kids have a long life of buying Scrabble boards ahead of them. That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Oh, a documentary called Word Freaks, I believe. Oh, is that what did it? It introduced it to a whole new generation of people. Oh, okay. Well, there you have it. Yeah, and it took off like Hasbro has a lot to be thankful for from that documentary, from what I understand.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, for sure. There was also a lot of internal strife, too. The North American Scrabble Players Association didn't make a lot of friends. They established a real top-down hierarchy of how that association was run. So some other players associations were developed, splintered off. There was a lot of...
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Okay. You like to kick the hornet's nest and then watch him go. I just think, I don't know, if you play the word Scrabble, give it just a little bump. I agree. I think you're right. All right. That's my only suggestion. My only note. A little more about it. The Scrabble board is 15 by 15 squares, 225 total squares. And because it's 15 by 15, you're limited to no more than 15 letter words. Sure.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
fracture, I guess, in the Scrabble community that just kind of came around that time that surely affected attracting new people. Like, I hate to use the word toxic because I feel like it's definitely overused, but it feels like that community got a lot more toxic around that time. And, you know, that doesn't exactly attract people. Like, hey, I want to join that toxic subculture. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, those aren't the people you want to attract to your toxic subculture, though.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
So, yeah. So that one, from what I could tell, I found that as a Spanish word for an indigenous chieftain, usually among Caribbean tribes.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, I mean, so that's one word for 392 points. To put that into perspective, a good, you know, average person's Scrabble score, from what I can tell, a couple to a few hundred points. This is like a Scrabble score with just a high Scrabble score with just one word. This is like the level that these people are playing at.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And Chuck, I say we take another break and we'll come back and we'll poke around in the brains of those high-level Scrabble players and see what neurologists have found out recently. Let's do it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Okay, Chuck, so we've kind of made mention a couple of times that people who play Scrabble like think of words differently than normies do.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And there have been studies using the Wonder Machine in particular by neurologists of the brains of people who play Scrabble because there's a lot of longstanding discussions, rival theories and hypotheses about how we process words and information associated with words.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And by studying Scrabble players, like high-level Scrabble players, they found that their brains literally work different when it comes to words.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Well, one of the studies, I can't remember what year it was. I actually failed to look now that I think about it. They found that when you put a Scrabble player through what's called the lexical decision task, which is showing people very quickly jumbles of words and saying, is there a word in there? Too late. Is there a word in here? Too late. And they have to answer really quick.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And there's always some lab assistant shouting too late and really just mix things up a little bit. Scrabble players use regions of their brains that most people wouldn't use. And they don't use regions of their brains that people normally do use. So like when you think of a word, you think of the meaning usually. That's how you grasp a word. And you're really kind of processing what the word is.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
there's a meaning attached to it. There's a symbolism attached to it. With the Scrabble player, they do not think like that. They think of words as physical constructs of letters. There's no, meanings aren't attached to them. That takes too long. They process them much more quickly because it's just a bunch of letters that you put together. It doesn't matter what it means.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And I guess just a quick summary of the rules. So when you play that first word, you have to play it in the center square. That's where you start. And you can build off of other people's words. You get up to 15-letter words by building onto other words because you could never spell more than a seven-letter word because at no point in time do you ever have more than seven tiles.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
It just matters that you can get this number of points on a Scrabble board. One of the other things they found is that they also use more spatial reasoning than the average person does when they're recognizing and processing words and letters because they have to figure out how to orient them on the board and how they would intersect with other words on the board.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
So their brains change and the way they approach words change the more Scrabble you play.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, they studied Russian engineering students. And by they, I mean the people who conducted this study. And they said, here, Russian engineering students, we're going to teach you Scrabble, and you're going to play it for a year, and then we're going to test you. We're going to have you play teachers who teach English as a foreign language. So they're Russian, but they know a lot of English.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And we're going to play the English language Scrabble, by the way. So there's all the pieces on the board right there. And what they found is that the engineering students who didn't speak that much English were able to, I think in the words of the study, smoke the English as a foreign language teachers in Scrabble. That's incredible. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Even though the teachers knew more English than the engineering students did.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Exactly. But I mean, that's how you get better at it. Apparently anagramming is a huge thing to do if you want to get better at Scrabble. Because when you look at the, you know, there's seven tiles on your tile holder. It's just a jumble of letters, and you have to find the words in those letters. That's part of the game. So if you go practice that, yeah, you're going to get a lot better.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
But I saw that among just the population in general, just people who play Scrabble for fun, it's much more closely divided. It's more like 60-40 men to women.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, I think that documentary probably helped quite a bit.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, because to them, they're just words. The meaning has no purpose or point whatsoever in the game. It doesn't matter. So why would you take any words out that we could potentially use and score with?
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And Jerry, best of luck beeping all those out. It should be pretty easy. So, yeah, so there were a lot of Scrabble players who were like, this is outrageous. Who cares about offensiveness? And other people are like, this is kind of society evolving in real time right here. So I guess Hasbro made a compromise and they said, well, how about this? For tournament level, we won't take these words out.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
We'll have a separate book called The Official Word List. Among players, it's called TWL 98. That's when it came out. It was 1998. But for everybody else, and by the way, the TWL 98 is just available to Players Association members. So it's not available to the general public. And then the other one, the toned down version, that's the one that the public will be able to get their hands on.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Oh, and I discovered a new dish from this too, Chuck. Cockumber? Usually spelled with a K, but apparently it's also okay to spell with a C. It's an Indian dish featuring cucumbers. Oh. It's like a fresh tomato cucumber salad. And actually, I should correct myself. I think it could be Indian, but it's also possibly like Anatolian. I'm not 100% sure. But it sounds delicious.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah. Oh yeah. That's a great way to run up scores from what I can tell. And then across the board, there's triple word scores, double word scores, double letter scores, and triple letter scores. And basically when you lay a tile over that, depending on whether it's a letter or a word, you get bonus points for it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, you could. You could also play yeet. What is that? I don't know, man. You know, I really feel like I've outed myself in the last couple episodes. Skibbity toilet, buddy. Not the edgelord that people assume that I am. Edgelord.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
There's no way that it's not. As a matter of fact, you keep talking, you tell the story, and I'm going to look it up.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, it's nuts. It's also nuts just how many players do cheat in like high level tournaments.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, there was a kid. He was 13, so he's unnamed as far as I can tell.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
He was playing down in Orlando at the Scrabble Nationals in 2012, and he got caught palming blank tiles. Man, what a jerk. I don't know that we even mentioned what blank tiles are good for, but they're like a wild card. They stand in for any letter that you want. So they can really come in handy when you have like a bunch of letters, but you just can't quite connect them.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
That blank tile comes in there and you say, thanks, blank tile. So if you have that, you have a huge advantage. So finally, this kid was caught cheating, but this was on the heels of a year before when he won the $2,000 prize for winning.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
So when you're like, like if you play a bingo across like a triple word score, you got a bunch of points. You basically just dusted your opponent in that one move essentially.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Even though, apparently, statistically, the percentage of blank tiles that he came up with across the game, or the games that he played throughout that tournament, it just doesn't add up. But they let that win stand. But for 2012, he got booted.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, there's, I don't want to say well regarded, a well-known player named Sam Contamati. And he is not just a player. He also has a side business of like custom equipment, like tile holders, boards. Timers is another one because in tournaments they use timers like chess. So he's got his whole line. He's, like, really integral to the current, like, Scrabble world, tournament world.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And for a long time, especially before Me Too came along, he just got away with it. Like, the Players Association president would make a point of escorting women who went up to Kenna Matthews' hotel room to pick up equipment that they bought from him or were buying from him. Like, you just... Didn't go alone, like it was an open secret. And then finally, like he just groped the wrong woman.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Me Too came along and I think at least 15 named women came forward and put their story on the record about him. And the response from the Players Association was essentially like, Okay, but don't do it again. Yeah. And he had already been banned for cheating. He palm tiles, too. He was a national champion. He palm tiles, too. He got suspended for four years for cheating.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
But for the allegations of sexual misconduct, nothing. Just a warning, essentially. So that really ticked off a lot of people, especially high-level women players, too, who were like, you know what? We hold our own tournaments, and he's not invited any longer. So... He's kind of been ostracized, but I have the impression that he's still very much around.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
No, nostalgia is a toxic impulse, according to Hodgman. That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
I'll bet every once in a while you can peek in on Hodgman sleeping and he's got a big smile on his face because he's dreaming about that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
I have a live update as well. Chode is not in the Scrabble allowable word list.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, it's called sending them packing with tears in their eyes, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah. And Scrabble being the arbiter of what words we can and can't use now.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
So Scrabble, of course, has popped up in pop culture here or there. Rosemary's Baby, very famously used, Mia Farrow used, well, Rosemary, uses Scrabble, a bunch of Scrabble tiles to try to figure out that some suspected witches were actually witches by using the tiles to figure out anagrams. Yeah. Same with Sneakers. I couldn't find that. I saw that movie. I never saw the movie.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
I couldn't find the clip with the Scrabble. I just saw mention of it in a couple of places.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Which that's all you need to do. That's better than Frank, I think. And then Seinfeld and Calvin Hobbes both kind of famously had Scrabble made up high value Scrabble words in their shows in the first season of Seinfeld. I don't remember. Who was it? Do you know? Seinfeld's mom played Kwon, Q-U-O-N-E.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And like Seinfeld calls her out on it and it's not actually a word, but Kramer's like, yeah, Kwon, whatever. But the biggest thing that stood out to me in this scene, I watched it today, it had the original dad who just did not work.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And then Calvin and Hobbes, I think Calvin played ZQFMGB and said it was a type of worms from New Guinea.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And then lastly, Chuck, we can't forget Scrabble led to Trivial Pursuit being created. Because remember they went and got a new Scrabble board and were like, how many Scrabble boards have we bought over the years? We should make our own game. That's right. Yeah. And that's it. Scrabble has not appeared in any other part of pop culture except for those things. Right. That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
All right. Well, that's Scrabble, everybody. Thank you for finally doing it, Chuck. And since I thank Chuck for finally relenting and giving in on doing an episode I've wanted to do for years and years and years, it's time for Listener Mail.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Oh, nice. So what are the what are the monthly centerfolds?
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
I don't know. I'm trying to come up with it now, and I don't really think I keep a calendar in my head. I'm just too, like, in the present, you know, like in the now. Yeah, baby. Sorry to let you down. Who is that?
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
There's your problem. Thanks a lot, Daisy. That was wonderful. I feel like also that somebody can make a T-shirt of like the visual representation of the calendar in Daisy's head. And it would be the most arcane, deep cut stuff you should know T-shirt of all time.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah. So if you want to get in touch with us like Daisy did and share your mental whatever, we would love that. You can send us an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Even Jerry chimed in and was like, will you guys please do Scrabble? And finally you relented. I think just because you wanted me and Jerry to stop bothering you about it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, for sure. And it's not like evenly distributed. For example, there's 12 E's, but there's only one J, K, Q, X, and Z. And then the other letters are just kind of distributed in weird, random ways. So that, like, you could, I guess, easily count that stuff. If you play Scrabble enough, you're just going to pick up on how many are out there at any given point. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
And also, just real quick, I did some poking around, Chuck. And I found that there's some mnemonic devices that like tournament level players use to remember how many points a particular letter gets. You should say that after I list them all. Well, I was going to just do it by group, if that's okay with you. Sure. So the first group, one point, they use astronauts eat in limbo.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, you just have to ignore the L. Okay, all right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Right. There's also, like if you have S tiles, there's a 10-point advantage. And the reason why I was like, that doesn't make any sense because S, as you remember from your mnemonic device, is only a one-point tile. You should throw that on the end though, right? Yeah, that's the thing.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
So like if you add, if you, like I said, you can add on to other words that are already on the board, even ones that another player wrote out. And whatever word score they got for that word, if you add an S, you get that same word score plus one point for the S. So that's a really easy way to rack up some quick points. Totally. And I think also probably annoy other players.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yes. And there's but there's plenty of rules that are fair game that are also like you're a jackass.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
QI? No, sorry, that's qi, like life force, I think. Okay. And you get 11 points for that one. And then, I can't remember, there's one more that's like a Q word that does not require a U. Oh, no, QI is in here because that's the highest scoring two-letter word along with ZA.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
You know, I wish I were. I'm not, and it's not like I have an aversion to it or anything like that. It's just not part of my world, I guess, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, and I looked up Z-A, Za, and it's slang for pizza. I'm not certain that that usage is allowed, but it's also an archaic word for a B-flat notation.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Well, from what I can tell, Scrabble players don't care what a word means. They don't think of them like that. And, I mean, that will come up later with those controversial words.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, good point. Yeah, it's just us. We're curious types. Scrabble players are not.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Oh, it's a really weird 80s comic strip. You know the clown with the Zippy the Pinhead? No, I don't know it. You should look it up. It's weird. It's a weird comic strip.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
But it couldn't be that. Sorry, I have to correct myself before all of the Scrabble players email in. It couldn't be Zippy the Pinhead because Zippy the Pinhead would be a proper noun.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
They're really serious about that stuff too. Oh, I bet.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
No. Get that mess out of here is what they'll tell you.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah. I like it both ways, though. Muzzjicks. Muzzjicks. Look at all the Muzzjicks toiling in the fields. Yeah. I like that. So I was confused because there's a lot of, like, one of the rules is no proper nouns, no words that end in apostrophe or require an apostrophe. Yeah. And then also no foreign words.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
But clearly some foreign words are allowed in because they're so common in English that they've just basically been adopted into the language. I get that. But a musjix is not a common word in English. So it must mean that that does appear in some English dictionary somewhere because that's kind of the great ruler, arbiter. But I just don't see how it could be. That's just weird to me.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
There's also bingo, I don't know, what city? Bingo bird? Stadt, maybe? Bingo stock. Sure. So in some other countries, too, in foreign language versions of Scrabble, there are some adjustments with the tiles. Like some have more than 100 tiles.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah. There's like double L and double R in the Spanish language version. There's also the N with the tilde over it. That's also a tile. Yeah. Spice it up a little. Yeah. I think that's worth eight points. Nice. Yeah, but you have to remember that that's eight points. You have to say nice.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Well, I feel like based on Stuff You Should Know history, our best episodes are ones where we explain games that we don't actually play. Soccer, chess. Yeah. I mean, the list just keeps going on. I feel like we're about to add to it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Are you sure it's just that that community in particular isn't big Scrabble fans? Yeah, I'm positive. Okay. So did you say he was an unemployed architect?
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
Yeah, so he did not have a great success with it out of the gate. He initially tried to call it Lexico and crisscross words, and he took it around to game manufacturers, and they were like, nah, I'm not really feeling this. And that was the way it went for a good decade before a man named James Bruneau bought the rights. He saw something in it that I guess other people didn't.
Stuff You Should Know
The Scribble on Scrabble
He renamed it Scrabble. He changed the gameplay a little bit. One of the biggest changes he made was that the way that Mosier Butts had come up with is that you just thought the word in like a kind of a mental version of the board and the other player hopefully was able to pick up on the word you were thinking.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yes, and I have been racking my brain what episode we first introduced the Ice King in. I cannot for the life of me remember what it was. Igloos? I don't know. I don't think so. I really don't remember what it was, but he popped up again later in our episode on Thoreau because one of the places where he was cutting ice from was Walden Lake, and Thoreau noted the Ice King cutting ice
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Or Walden Pond. Sorry, Mainers. Yeah. While he was writing his book, Walden. I think he appears in Walden.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
So I talked about how, like, the technology is really just kind of improved on ancient technology. The uses for this stuff, too, have really kind of been relatively the same. We haven't had a lot of stuff that we wanted ice for aside from cooling our drinks, which is… Really, honestly, Olivia turned up a mention of the king of Tekoa, I saw different spellings, in what's now Syria.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
And she's wearing a little red beanie and looks like a mini penguin.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
And he used it to ice his drinks almost 4,000 years ago. So, I mean, people have been doing that for a really long time. Another one is to store perishable food, like you said, keeps the flies away, right? Yeah. And in doing these things, as we've gotten better and better at it, it started to have like really monumental, massive sweeping changes on humanity.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
And here in America, one of the first changes it had, we will talk about right after this.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Oh, okay. All right. I see what you're doing. Nice work, Chuck. That was a good old-fashioned stuff-you-should-know segue. And in full stuff-you-should-know fashion, I stepped all over it, so it didn't actually work that well.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
So, Chuck, I was talking about how refrigeration had massive sweeping changes as we got better at it. And in America, one of the first things it did was it allowed people to expand their diet some. Because unless you were in like a southern state or something like that, you did not have access to a lot of different kinds of food year round. Yeah, yeah, right.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Like spring and summer, maybe even into fall a little bit, you would have things like dairy and poultry and meat. And then as winter... Fresh veggies. Yes. And as winter started to set in, you had pickled cabbage...
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
neighbor who died that winter like pickled everything canning didn't even come around i didn't know this until the 19th century i thought it was really really old so like you really did not so actually you didn't have pickled anything now that i think about it you had like salted stuff cured stuff um and a lot of it was grains too right stuff you could store fairly easily
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
And then when we started learning how to preserve food with refrigeration and got better and better at it, like people, their diets just changed radically. Like apparently in the northern states, by the time spring came, you were so malnourished from a lack of niacin, vitamin B3 that you normally get from like poultry and fish and meat. that they had a name for it, spring sickness.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Today we call it pellagra, but it's a type of like severe malnutrition that people would just annually get because they had that limited access to different foods. And then once we started being able to store and then more importantly ship items by refrigerating it, then things really changed. That spring sickness went away. And I'm also the first person in history to say the word refrigerating
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yes, we are talking about refrigeration, which is why you brought that up. And again, nice work. This is one of those, I guess, topics that has popped up myriad ways in myriad episodes recently. So, I mean, literally 30,000 ways in 30,000 episodes. And this is one of those stuff you should know things where we're just going to bring it all together and finally talk about the main topic.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Okay, cool. So, yes, you could pickle your neighbor then.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Well, what's the deal then? I mean, they just hadn't figured out how to use heat baths and that kind of thing?
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yeah. This, Chuck, was one of those episodes where I went near mad trying to understand like the physics of the whole thing or even like the mechanical engineering aspects of this stuff. And it's got to be because my dad was a mechanical engineer by profession.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
So like I've got that little bug that I can't ignore. And I look all over for how William Cullen's thing worked. And apparently no one knows because the same like four or five sentences are basically copy and pasted everywhere on the Internet.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
So we do know that in the before even 1750, he was the first person to demonstrate artificial refrigeration. It didn't go anywhere, but he showed that this was entirely possible and that it was pretty clever to use something like artificial refrigerant rather than just say water. Although water is an excellent refrigerant in a lot of different applications.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Right. Yeah. So it's just nuts. If you see like a diagram and how it's explained and how a vapor compression refrigerator works, which is almost certainly the kind of refrigerator you have in your home, there's really just like four components to it. And they're really doing some basic stuff to this. But it's more a question of, like, why?
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Like, why would you put something into low pressure and heat it up for the next step to be to, like, depressurize it and cool it down and then you turn it into liquid up here? It's just – it doesn't make sense. It's almost just nuts. Like, somebody just went crazy with a diagram, but apparently that's how it works. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
And it's all, I think it's like you said, it's just taking advantage of the different properties of lower pressure liquid or higher pressure gas. Like they can cool and heat. And I guess it puts off so much coolness or so much heat that it can be used to refrigerate. And then it passes through this other thing, like I think a condenser. And that gives off the waste heat.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
That's what's under your fridge. And then like the evaporator cools everything down. And I finally got it, Chuck. So I've been looking at it wrong the whole way. The refrigerator doesn't pump cold into your fridge, right? The actual mechanical refrigerant process. What it does is it sucks heat out of your refrigerator. And once I finally understood that, I was like, I got it finally.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
I got it because this cooler refrigerant goes through a coil. And I thought like it was emitting cold and that that's how it cooled down. No, it's drawing any heat from there, kind of tricking the heat into joining the coil and leaving the fridge box cooler, which is what that refrigerant wanted all the time.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
It thinks that heat was a sucker for falling for it, but that's exactly what it does every time. And now the inside of your refrigerator is way colder.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
I think it's kind of amazing, too, because it's the opposite of what I always thought was going on.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yeah, which hydrofluorocarbons are good for the ozone layer, but they're actually horrible as greenhouse gases. There's a rating of just how much of an effect like a chemical has on warming the atmosphere. And they use carbon dioxide, CO2, as a one. That's like the baseline because we know how much it warms the atmosphere over 100 years. So it has a global warming potential or GWP of one.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Carbon dioxide does. Hydrofluorocarbons have a global warming potential of 14,800. Wow. That's a lot more than CO2, if you really stop and think about it. And these are the refrigerants we're still using. These are the alternatives that we developed and started using in the 90s. So it's like we go from the frying pan into the fire whenever we try to do something environmental, it feels like.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Did you say that to yourself out loud or were you just thinking this?
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Right. That's what sixth grade bullies call you, too, when they tell you to meet them in the playground at 3 p.m. But that changed that changed absolutely everything. This is when meat became like a staple of the American diet. We talked a little bit about Chicago being the epicenter of this and that. What did Americans eat before the FDA came along or something?
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
But all of a sudden meat was much easier, much cheaper to ship. And they could ship it further and further. So they started supplying the cities with meat and people started to be able to afford it.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
And that was another huge change, not just for humans, but for cows too, because apparently the cow population in the United States more than doubled in 30 years after we figured out how to refrigerate meat or ship refrigerated meat.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
It's even more impressive when you adjust for inflation. So a single pear was $11.00. in the 1870s, and they were two for $1.80 in the 1890s, thanks to refrigeration. Did you ever get an orange in the bottom of your Christmas stocking? Because I never understood why until I started researching this.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
I was going to ask that. I had a follow up question and then you just answered it.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
You never did? Oh, we always did, and I was always like, why is there an orange in the bottom of this stocking, making it seem like there's way more stuff in here than there actually is.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
So I think initially you were thinking like refrigerators, like home refrigeration, maybe like warehouse refrigeration, fairly recent refrigeration. But Livia, like you said, who helps us with this went, no, no, and wagged her finger and said, this stuff goes way back beyond this chalk. And you said, how did you get in my kitchen? Right.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yep. So, Chuck, little by little as these like innovations in shipping stuff, meat, produce, things that just could not make it from, you know, California to, oh, I don't know, let's say Denver. Okay. Without rotting or something. As we got better and better at this, something called the cold chain started to emerge and evolve.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
And that was basically how we moved perishable items from one part of the country to another, thanks to this refrigerated stuff. And it was super primitive and separate. I think the I don't know if you said or not, but the very first private rail cars were these meatpackers refrigerated cars. They just did this on their own as like a great business move.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
But these things became so invaluable and people became so hooked on having stuff available year round that they normally wouldn't, that it just became an institution, like a part of any growing, developing country's infrastructure. There was something called the cold chain.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yeah, like fantastic, basically, but fantastic refrigerator is basically what it means. Yeah, that sounds like a sentence product.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Shut up. Take it back. Yeah, exactly. So like you said, he died penniless, as you like to say. But his his legacy lived on. Eventually, people said like, OK, we can get used to this. But it took some it took some selling for sure. One of the other major things that helped establish the cold chain was not just shipping, but it had to like sit for a little while when it got to where it's going.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Like it's not like the train stopped at every house for anyone who wanted eggs. Like it went to one central destination and it unloaded its contents. And so as a result, cold storage had to develop. You remember Rocky. He helped train by punching huge sides of beef. That was part of the cold chain. He worked in at least, I guess that's where he worked, was a cold storage place.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yeah, and they really did breed them, Chuck, through selective breeding programs. There's something called the red jungle fowl, which is a type of chicken, wild chicken. It lays about 10 to 15 eggs per year. And like you said, normally in the spring, maybe in the early summer. That's just not enough if you want eggs year-round.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
So the breeds that we developed, like the leghorns, which is the top egg layer, the champ, they lay about 350 eggs per year, year-round.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
But before that, yeah, you could just hang on to eggs. I almost said you could just sit on eggs for a while thanks to cold storage.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yeah. And that was one of the roles of the FDA and the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906 was to basically say, OK, we get why you don't trust some of these people, because some of them are actual total scales. Some of the people selling food Apparently, one technique was to if you had a bunch of meat that was about to spoil, you just froze it and shipped it.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
And the person wouldn't be able to tell until they thawed the meat out and tried to sell it. And you just rip them off. That was a big one. Or if you had a cold storage facility, if you're storing something for months. You need to keep it cold for months. There can't be like a week where everything breaks down and you just hang on to that stuff and sell it anyway after things get back online.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
And this was the kind of thing that like people in the U.S. were having to worry about. So thanks to the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906 and then later on actual laws that gave it teeth. That kind of helped set the stage for people to finally relax and be like, OK, I can deal with frozen food. Because it was like the GMOs of its day.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Like people were just like, it'll give you cancer if you eat frozen food. Like it was like people did not trust food that had been frozen.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Flies don't like cold. So one of the things that people have long loved to do is cool down their drinks, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
It's just something you take for granted these days, but that's one of the first uses people put cold storage or refrigeration to, which was to store ice so that they could chop it off with an ancient ice pick, probably made out of a bone or tusk or something like that, and put it in their drinks. And as we'll see, that's just long been a desire of people.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Right, not just call them. Yeah, there's also that whole excellent subgenre of desserts that are icebox, like icebox cakes.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yeah. So, yeah, it didn't take off. They weren't super reliable. They were pretty expensive. But not too long later, a decade or so later, in 1927, GE introduced its refrigerator. It's nicknamed the Monitor Top because there's a big round turret on top of the refrigerator that gives it a very distinctive look. It looks like a robot fashioned by like a sixth grader.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Um, but monitor refers to the civil war ironclad USS monitor. Um, and that's just, that was the nickname. I was looking all over for what general electric called it and they seem to have just called it refrigerator.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
But whenever someone has access to ice in places you normally can't get ice, it's one of the first things they do to it. And it's also almost always a sign of wealth to start off for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Oh, yeah, for sure. Again, though, people were kind of like, I don't know about this. I was about to say fortunately, but related to that, scarcity during World War II and World War I, but also the Great Depression, basically said, hey, everybody, you can't just be throwing food away. We need to be very thrifty with food. And that really kind of gave leftovers a big boost.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Also, because the government came in and created propaganda campaigns to kind of persuade people to start eating leftovers more. Because again, thanks to your new handy GE refrigerator, you can do that kind of thing.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Tell them what John Waters called iceberg lettuce. I thought that was great.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
I understand. I hated salad. So maybe that's why I hate iceberg lettuce because that's all that's all we got was iceberg as well. And like French dressing or something like that or ranch. And that was it. And you ate it and you liked it and you shut up about it.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
For real. Like even when you were a kid, you would eat that.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
So that's funny. I hated salad so much I would refuse to be served anything except for some iceberg lettuce and some carrots. And I wouldn't even eat that. No salad dressing, nothing. Like whenever everyone else was finished, if I was still eating my salad, I had to stay at the table and finish it. And so at that time, I would just start slowly putting it bite by bite under the credenza behind me.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
But then I was short-sighted enough I didn't go back and clean it out. So every few months like the credenza would get moved and there'd be a pile of like desiccated iceberg lettuce and carrots.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yeah, and while we're on it, I believe in our Food Origins episode, I don't remember what it was, but we talked about the TV dinner. And we totally credited Jerry Thomas, a salesman for Swanson, as coming up with the idea. And since then, it's become much clearer that Jerry Thomas might have had almost nothing to do with this.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
And that the real hero was a 21-year-old bacteriologist named Betty Cronin. who was the one who not only, she might not have come up with the idea, I think she said one of the Swanson sons did, but she was the one who figured out how to make it work and to make these meals that are different foods entirely that all cook at the same time and come out the way that they're supposed to.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
There's one other thing I wanted to mention. So the cold chain is now so diverse and there's so many different versions of it all working together. It's now called the cold web. And Olivia gives a great example of what we can do now. We can catch a fish in Norway, send it off to China for processing, and then send it from China to the United States for eating. Wow. All within a half an hour.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Well, maybe longer than that, but still, it is still amazing. You got anything else?
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Nice idea. You got anything else? I got nothing else. I got 10, 12 more minutes worth of material. Do you mind just sitting there? No, let's do it. Since Chuck said let's do it, I think it's time for Listener Mail.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yeah, thanks a lot, Amy. Number one, thank you for coming to see our show. And number two, congratulations on your new house. Yeah, for sure. And number three, thank you for sending us a delightful email. And if you want to be like Amy, you can send us an email too to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
And even if you're like into cocktails, like you might not want ice in your drink, but I'll bet you used ice to chill that drink.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
I remember there's one of the lamest mixology trends that somebody tried to start. And there was it was around long enough for there to be some press on it. And it just went away inevitably. It was room temperature cocktails. Yeah. Like, why would you do that? You might as well make sure that every single one of them has to have celery bitters in it, too.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Huh. I just realized I drink room temperature water. I have a glass of it right here. So I guess I can't just stand with you 100 percent there, Chuck. I'm sorry.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Supposedly, your body metabolizes room temperature water much more easily. But supposedly, you also burn more calories warming water up in your body. So you're going to be torn.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
One other thing about ice and drinks. I think the best martinis are the ones that have you get them so cold that they have like a little shard of like Arctic ice on the top.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yes, I love that, too. And then also when they leave five thousand dollars in cash with you for no reason other than ordering the five thousand dollar martini.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yep. That's going to happen many times and I'll never do it on purpose. So I just apologize in advance. One of the other things that people figured out pretty quickly is that when you have a liquid evaporating, usually water, as it evaporates, turns from liquid to gas, that phase change is what they call it. The eggheads call it a phase change.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
It requires energy, and typically it gets that energy to change phase from heat. My God, the heat. And it usually just pulls it from the surrounding air, which means that when a liquid turns into a gas, the air around it is cooler because it pulls that heat right out of the air to use it for the phase change.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
And if you have some way of moving that cooler air from around the vessel of water that's evaporating, you have yourself a primitive air conditioning system that's sometimes called a swamp cooler, I saw. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
No, for sure. And it has to be, this is the downside, it has to be a dry, hot place. Yeah. If it's muggy out, then it's not going to have much of an effect.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yeah, I thought that was weird too. I also saw one of the other really basic uses for it is to dampen a towel and hang it in front of a breezy window. And as that water evaporates in the towel, as it dries off, is what the lay people call it, the breeze pushes that cooler air into your house. And I realized that I was having trouble envisioning this stuff for...
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Why anybody would go to the trouble? And I was like, oh, yeah, before the kind of AC and refrigeration that we're used to, you had to go to all sorts of trouble. It's just so easy to take for granted these days. But before this and in other places where they don't have AC, people would hang damp towels in front of a breezy window to get cooler. That's how desperate they were to cool down.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yeah, there's things called spring houses or spring boxes, depending on how big the structure is. But typically, if you have a stream or a spring running through your homestead, which from what I've read recently is like point number one that you want to make sure your homestead has is a source of fresh water. One of the cool things you could do with that is to build an enclosure around it.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
But first, within the enclosure, what you want to build is like – kind of like a widened area for the stream to flow into, and then it kind of fills up, and then it exits the other side of this widened area. So you narrow the channel of the spring or the stream, line it with rocks, line this box with rocks, basically, and it stays about half full year-round of this nice, cool stream
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
mountain spring or mountain stream water, and you just keep your butter in there and crocks and stuff. So it's just like doing it in a stream, but you're basically making it a little easier to store your things in there. You could put more stuff in it than you would if you just threw it in the stream like a total hayseed.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Like even the mountainists of mountain people are like, you didn't go to the trouble of building a spring house, right? For somebody who just throws it into the stream themselves.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. And Jerry Chilly Willy Roland is here doing the recording, wearing a little red beanie, looking all cute. And this is Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yeah. Also, remember, in our feed, a cold starve a fever short stuff. We talked about how there is like a doctor's viewed heat and cold as a duality of health. So, yeah, if somebody was sick with one of the hot sicknesses, you would probably give them a cold drink. And that was considered as good as medicine is today.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Sure. So one other thing I want to mention real quick is we're talking about people like technologies that are like thousands of years old. There was something called a yak chal that Persians created that to listeners may or may not sound familiar, depending on when we release the short stuff on it.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
Yeah. But it was like an ancient Persian ice making machine that dates back at least to 400 BCE, which is really impressive. But yeah, we'll get way more in depth on those in whatever short stuff we do. But the point is that people have been doing this for a really long time, and they figured out some really ingenious technologies that harness natural processes to cool.
Stuff You Should Know
The History of Refrigeration
And as we kind of progress through the technology, you'll see that we're basically... Doing the same thing, just a little more whiz bang, much more efficiently. It delivers much cooler air or water or whatever we're cooling. But it's still basically the same premise as what we were doing thousands of years ago to keep things cool.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
So one of the ways that a male will make himself seem even more virile than he is, there's something called the hoot dash noise. And just the hoot is the noise part. It's called a hoot dash because right after the male hoots, he dashes toward the female and they start mating. Right. It's actually quite disturbing to see. A lot of mating in the animal world is really disturbing. I saw a video, too.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah. But that's what that noise is called. So males realize that like the more hoot dashing or hoot sounds that they make, the more females in earshot, but not in eyeshot, I guess, will hear, oh, wow, like Terry really gets it on with a lot of a lot of peahens. I'm going to give him a shot next time he comes around because he must be very virile.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Like a third of those hoot dash sounds are faked, essentially.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah. They are so cute, too. Do not rely on the Internet for what a baby peacock looks like. Apparently, it's been a great example to demonstrate how much AI is just screwing the Internet up.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah. Yeah, if you go on Google image search for baby peacocks, like people think that there's pictures of like a giant or like a miniaturized, cute, big eyed peacock and that that's a baby peacock. They all look like peahens, like little brown peahens. But even if they're peacocks, that's how they start out. So just check it out. Just search baby peacock for images. And it's a lie.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Right. But it doesn't exist. That's not real. Hey, don't blame me. Blame the AI running the Internet.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
So one other thing about the pea chicks is that they stay with their mom for two to six months, depending on whether they're in captivity, in the wild. Moms are much more maternal, instinct-wise, in the wild than they are in captivity. So, you know, depends on the situation, how long they hang around them. But just watching, have you ever seen a pea hen with her little pea chicks following her?
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
The peahen is the female. So if you see a brown kind of drab looking peacock and you say, look at that brown peacock. Well, you just sound like a hayseed. It's a peahen and she's not drab. She's camouflaged.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
It's very cute. Oh my God. I'll bet baby turkeys are pretty cute too.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
And there's always one straggler that has to like run faster to catch up with the group. Yeah. Barney. Love that guy.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
So I think we should talk a little bit about natural selection, sexual selection, Charles Darwin, kind of what you were alluding to earlier, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
So Darwin grew up or lived in the Victorian era where women were viewed as passive, submissive. They were just there and had their fingers crossed that a man of adequate dashingness would come along and marry them, right? So that meant that it was the men, the males of the Victorian era human species, in England at least, that were responsible for sexual selection.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
They chose the winners and the losers among women. Well, Darwin was looking around the world of nature, basically all the other animals, and was like, that's not really what I'm seeing out there. And in the peacocks in particular, the females are, again, drab, really camouflaged, while the males have these amazing, beautiful displays.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
That strongly suggests that the males are performing for the females, and it's the females who are doing the sexual selecting. And he had such a hard time wrestling with this. There's a quote from him that said the sight of a pea feather made him sick because he could not give in. And he finally was, you know, science got the better of him. And he's like, that's just how it is. I don't like it.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
But females in the animal kingdom are typically the ones who select sexually and end up are the, they're the drivers of natural selection. They choose women. What passes on to the next generation based on the kind of male mates that they choose?
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah, and those eye spots play a real starring role in this whole sexual selection mating process, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
So the feathers in and of themselves are pretty amazing, but the eye spots, these little dots with different colors on them that are scattered all across the train feathers, the fan, they are of a slightly different structure, slightly different density than the rest of the feathers surrounding them. So when that train resonates at 25.6 hertz,
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
They appear to stand still and float against the background of the other feathers that are vibrating at the same frequency, but are just of a slightly different density. And this is so important. These ocelli, the eye spots, are so important that scientists have figured out that other species that also have eye spots... They don't share a common ancestor with peacocks that had eye spots, Chuck.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Eye spots evolved separately over different times among different species. They're that important for mating.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Very nice. I say we take a break then since we're done talking about eye spots, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
We'll finish up with Act 3 right after this. Oh, wait, wait. There was one more thing about eye spots. Wait, stop the presses. Jerry, roll tape. Researchers have figured out for sure that eye spots play a big role because some poor schmo of a peacock had his eye spots covered up. And they said, go out to ladies night and see what happens.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
And he got nothing from nobody ever while his eye spots were covered up.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yes. I don't have any other breaking news. All right. Everybody take five and we're back.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck. Jerry's here, too. And I can't think of anything hilarious to say, so I'm just going to say this is Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah, the pigments that are in the peacock's tail feathers are melanin. And melanin typically looks brown to us. It's what gives human skin kind of a brown cast to it. That is melanin pigment. And it's no different in a peacock's feathers, but the structure is totally different, like you said.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
There's a crystalline structure of overlaying barbs that if you look in an electron microscope, you can see quite clearly. And those barbs, those crystal barbs of melanin, there's like little gaps between them. And in fact, it creates what's called a partial band gap. which means that electromagnetic waves do not penetrate some area depending on where that light is hitting.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
To put simply, Chuck, depending on which angle, which direction light hits these melanin rods, the crystalline melanin rods, it's going to reflect or absorb all different kinds of light.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
And so the same structure can reflect or absorb different kinds of light depending on where the light hits it, which means if you're looking at it one way and you move slightly to the left, you're looking at a different part of that structure and it's reflecting different colored light. And that's how iridescence comes along.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
It's so neat. And yeah, it's just the structure. If you take a bunch of crystals and pile them on top of each other in little weird repeating patterns, they're going to become iridescent. It's gorgeous. Apparently, Isaac Newton figured it out all the way back in 1704. Yeah, pretty impressive. Yeah, based on peacock feathers. He said, check these out, man. I know what's going on.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Sorry, no. Those were Yumi's grandma's peacock, neighborhood peacocks. And for some reason, the ones that live around me are not a disturbance at all. I mean, they make their sounds, but it's few and far between. It's not annoying at all. It's kind of cute. And it's just a different experience than it was around Yumi's grandma's house.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Help! Help! It always sounds like help. That's what it sounds like to me. It's uncanny and unnerving.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know what you're saying.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
They were elf-struck. So they also, they honk, too. Like, I can't even do the honk. Like a goose? That's that hoot dash thing sounds kind of like a honk.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah, so they can do that a lot, too. And if you put it all together, yeah, it can be very annoying. But, Chuck, I cannot figure out what the difference is between Yumi's grandma's neighborhood and my neighborhood because I have a completely different opinion of the annoyance level of peacocks now. I don't understand why, but there's the facts.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
I guess so. I'm older, wiser, gentler. Yeah. More peacock loving. Sure. I think we all get that way. Sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah. You might also want to eat them. Yeah. I forgot to send you this thing that I found. The Romans ate them, but they specifically liked their tongues. Peacock tongue was a delicacy in ancient Roman times.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
In the Middle Ages. Wait, where are you going to send me? This is what I'm about to tell you.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
In the mail. Flash ride. So in the Middle Ages in Europe, they would actually eat peacock, like the whole thing. But they figured out a way to remove the skin so that the feathers all came off, too. Then they would roast the bird and then they would redress it with its feathers to be served to the lord of the manor by the most beautiful girl at the party, I guess. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
And then it would just sit there for a little while. They would carve into it, eat it, and have a lot of trouble digesting it because apparently it's really tough. So much so that doctors of the time were like, don't eat peacock. It's really just not good for you.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
The picture I saw or the painting I saw made it look like they did a pretty good job of making it look like it was alive again.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Right. You don't really want to recognize it. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
No. Did I ever tell you about the time we went to H&F and like we just went too far?
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
So for everybody who doesn't know, H&F is a restaurant in Atlanta and they're well known for like using all parts of the animal. Yeah. And we went and we were like, if you go further down the menu, like it gets more and more hardcore. And we just kind of tried it one time and we got as far as fried chicken heads or beaks, which had a lot of the head attached still. Goodness.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Like the whole table just kind of, it just took a dark turn and everybody stopped talking and it was a bad jam. So I don't recommend the fried chicken beaks at Holman and Finch anymore.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
I know. Our poor live show fan, Sarah, is like, I'm sorry I asked for it.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
At 10 miles an hour. Yeah, exactly. She was protected by a giant named Argus who had 100 eyes and he was killed by Hermes. And so she brought him back as the peacock. I thought that's a great story. Yeah. There's also the peacock throne, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Uh-huh, including the Kori Nur diamond, which is a 105-carat diamond. Pretty amazing stuff. They managed the Mughal Empire in India, managed to hang on to the throne for about 100 years until they were invaded by the Persians, I believe, who were like, we're taking this throne. This is essentially the reason we invaded was to get this throne.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
And they disassembled it and basically sold it off for parts, right? Yeah. But if you go onto the internet and you search peacock throne, you will see photographs of a peacock throne that looks pretty amazing. And you will say, well, how could this have been destroyed back in the 17th or 18th century? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
And the reason why is because what you're looking at is the replica that King Ludwig II of Bavaria, our friend, the fairy tale king. Oh, yeah. Had constructed for his castle, Neuschwanstein. Ah, look at that. Neuschwanstein?
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Neuschwanstein. Yeah. Any chance I have to bring King Ludwig II into the story, I'm going to take it.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah, there's a town called Pinecrest, a suburb of Miami, which is giving peacocks vasectomy. So if you couldn't have guessed, Pinecrest is a rather well-heeled suburb of Miami because a lot of towns can't afford to give peacocks vasectomy.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah, there's only, I think, 10,000 to 20,000 left of them in the wild. Hopefully someone steps up because losing any animal to extinction sucks. But losing particularly beautiful ones that their very presence makes the world a better place to live in. Those are you don't want to lose those.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Let's see. I'm trying to think if there's anything else. I don't really think we have anything else, do we? I got nothing else. Oh, a group of peafowl. Oh, yeah. What is it? Collective nouns? Isn't that what they're called?
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yes, I remember what you're talking about. I don't remember what it was, too. But in this case, peacocks, a group of peacocks are called a pride, an ostentation, or a party. Peacock party. I like that. I do, too. I like all three of them. Well, since Chuck and I agreed that we like the collective nouns for peacocks, then obviously we have just unlocked listener mail.
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Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah, for sure. They are not native to the United States, although they thrive in coastal, warmish areas, kind of muggy areas, you could say, too, although also arid areas. Anyway, California and Florida, let's just specify that. They do really well there, but they're native to India, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Thanks, Katrina. That is a very sensible, awesome law. I love that. It's one of the worst things to see when you're driving down the highway is a bunch of billboards.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
It's terrible. Great. Thanks for letting us know that. Hopefully, as Maine goes, the rest of the world follows. And if you want to be like Katrina and get in touch with us and let us know of a very sensible local law, we love that kind of thing. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
The Congo peafowl. That's right. It's like a little mini turkey, he looks like, they look like. They're native to the Congo Basin in Africa. And the Indian and Javanese peafowl prefer kind of openish fields and maybe kind of tree-lined streets. That's why they love neighborhoods, parks, like it replicates their native habitat. The Congo peafowl prefer to live in the forest itself. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah, that's right. So that's where they like to live.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Get it? Peckish? Mm-hmm. So they are among the largest flying birds in the world. Something a lot of people don't realize about peafowl is that they can fly. Apparently, the green peafowl—yeah, I said that right—is a pretty strong flyer. The Indian or blue peafowl is— Not great, but they can make it to the roof of a two-story building pretty fast if a dog like Momo barks at them.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
So they can fly, and they are very large too. Blue pea fowl, the most common one, they're the biggest of the three. The adult male can measure 50 inches. It's a little over four feet. God knows how many meters we're talking about. Let's say 1.2. And it's trained so that what you think of as the tail feathers are actually not the tail.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
They actually protrude out of the back of the peafowl or the peacock. In this case, that can be five to seven feet long. So they are a big, big bird. Not big bird size, but they're still a big bird. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
I really want to say Sarah. But I'm not sure. So whoever you are, a young girl who suggested peacocks at the Atlanta show, write in to tell us your name so we can tell everybody.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
They also use it to defend their territory. I saw a guy laying pavers once, and he was apparently laying pavers on a peacock's territory because the peacock had his train, like, fully fanned out. Oh, really? And was, like, shaking and staring at the guy like, I'm going to kill you if you don't stop laying pavers right there. Oh, wow. The guy just completely ignored him. It was...
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Pretty funny to see because that peacock was quite serious.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
You're not going to take a shot at the family name for the turkeys?
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Miliagrididae. Oh, great. I think I got it. I didn't even practice that one. Good job. But those turkeys, did you say they can weigh up to 30 pounds?
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Well, are they used to your presence? Because those things run. They have really sharp eyesight, and they scatter quick.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
So I also said that the blue peahens are sometimes considered drab. And I mean, compared to the males, they are not quite as easy on the eyes, right? But they're brown and they're drab because the female blue peahens are... are responsible for guarding their nests.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
And even though they spend a lot of time roosting in trees, very often they sleep overnight in trees, they build their nests on the ground in little depressions on the ground lined with sticks. And so they have to defend that nest at all times. The easiest way to defend it is to not be seen.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
So they steer clear of being seen by things like leopards and tigers and mongoose and all that by blending in with the surrounding terrain.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah, Momo doesn't actually want to predate the peacock. She just wants it to know, like, this is Momo's yard, peacock. Yeah, let them know who's boss. Right, exactly. Momo's boss.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah, and they're both very, very beautiful. They have amazingly beautiful feathers as well. Very pretty. The little Congo peafowl, they're kind of cute. Dark blue neck feathers and dark green and black train. Females are also brown. But they're just not – nothing can beat a blue peacock. They just can't. I'm sorry. That's a hill I'll die on if I have to.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah. They can also kind of haul pretty fast. They can run up to 10 miles an hour when they need to.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
That's right. With their little like aviator goggles on. Yeah, totally. You want to take a break? Yeah. All right. Well, we're going to do that, everybody. Watch this.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
So I think it's high time that we talk about what everybody thinks of when they think of peacocks, which is that amazing train of feathers spread out in a fan behind them. And it's correct to say him. And this is all part of the mating ritual, right? That's the whole point of those feathers. Again, the peacocks will use it to try to ward off or intimidate trespassers in their territory.
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Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
But for the most part, the whole thing is to impress the peahens.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
They resonate at the same rate. The male peacock, when he shakes those feathers, that fan, he can shake it at more than 25 times a second. And that resonance, I think it's like 25.6 hertz to be exact, that just happens to be tuned in almost precisely to the crest feathers on the peafowl's head. And in addition to the sight, apparently peahens have amazing sight.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
So they're seeing everything that the peacock's showing them, but also they're feeling it. Like that's transmitting, that vibration or resonance is transmitting to their head. So it's quite a like you're not going to turn down a peacock if you're a peahen. They're pretty amazing dudes. That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah. And you would think it would have become peacock like in the 1950s or 60s. But no, it became peacock as far back as the 1300s. Yeah. So that's it for etymology of peacock, but there's a little more about the word peacock because a lot of you are getting things wrong and you need to be corrected harshly sometimes. A peacock is specifically the male of the species. Obviously.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
It means that everything has a purpose. So it was like designed to be a certain way. I love that.
Stuff You Should Know
Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work
Yeah. So he's putting on this huge show not to be like, I'm hypnotizing you, baby. Do my bidding. He's doing it because he's like, check me out. Don't you like me? Like, look at this. Aren't I amazing? And the female can either be like, I've seen better. Or she could be like, yeah, you're right up my alley. You just happen to be vibrating at my resonance. That's teleological. So, yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
It's 45,000 U.S. dollars today, which you'd think it'd be way more, but that's what— Did you really do that? I found a Swedish currency converter, historic currency converter.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Amazing. And that's why you're Josh Clark. I didn't make this website.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
6,000 Frank Fine, he drew a caricature of King Louis Philippe with a pear for a head. And then when he was threatened with this fine, he put out a possibly one of the first or the first multi-panel cartoon, a four panel cartoon showing the metamorphosis from this king going like he's the king as a caricature. And now he looks a little more like a pear, a little more like a pear.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. And the whole point was, come on, like the guy looks like a pear. And it's ridiculous that you would try to fine me $6,000 for pointing out something so obvious.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And I guess he avoided that fine at the time. But afterward, he's like, OK, I really need to get in trouble. So I'm going to create one called Gargantua. And this one was way worse than saying the king looks like he has a pear for a head. This was the king giant, like gorging himself on taxes that were being fed directly to him by the poor people.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
He's sitting on his throne and then he's pooping out like tax breaks and special treatment for the wealthy friends of his. And that one got him in trouble.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, it's a good cartoon. It's like it's a ramp from the ground straight up to this giant's mouth with people in their wheelbarrows just like walking up and getting in his mouth and being pooped out as as spoils.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
It's a great, great piece of art, too. Yeah, not just the political version of a political aspect. It's beautiful as far as art goes.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
But that got him six months in the Husqvarna, but they let him out and he started working again. King Philip was asked about this and, you know, kind of like, why are you cracking down on this? But people can have a pamphlet printed with words that are very critical of you. And he said, a pamphlet is no more than a violation of opinion. A caricature amounts to an act of violence.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
You started out with almost a French accent there for a second.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
I debated it, then I came back, and then it was British for a hot second, and then it was just regal, general regal.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. It really did evolve that quickly, too. I failed. So, yeah, King Louis Philippe put his finger on something that there's something special or something different about a political cartoon that is way different than, say, a news article or even a photograph. You know, you can make the point the news article for centuries and centuries.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Because there used to be more than 2,000 about 100 years ago. Now there's less than 20. And Dave, you know, helped us with this and found that stat. And I think we were both initially like, oh, my God, they're all going away. Right. Not necessarily true. Those are full time staffers on newspapers. Newspapers are in trouble. So that's a big reason why we'll get to that.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
could only be read by a select number of people, everybody could get a political cartoon. But there's something more than that, too. There's just something about a political cartoon that people who've been taken down by political cartoons have been able to put their finger on and said, this is way worse than just writing about me for some reason.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, I think that tracks to even to like if you think about in like high school, if a teacher caught you writing like a note to your friend that said, you know, Mr. Clark is such a jerk. I think that would be taken different than if someone drew a picture of Mr. Clark like bent over being paddled by a line of students or something, you know.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
No, it would be equal unless you put like stink lines coming off of me and then it would be really hurtful.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
I don't know. I'll bet it was a political cartoonist who wasn't that great.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, let's take a break and we'll come back and talk about one of the more famous political cartoonists of all time, Thomas Nast.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
But there are still plenty of editorial cartoonists and political cartoonists mainly working online.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Right. Yeah. And for syndication companies like you can work for a syndicate and they'll distribute it to newspapers that want to run your political cartoon, just like with comics.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
All right, we're back. Josh promised talk of Thomas Nast. He's the most famous American political cartoonist, probably very influential cartoonist of the 19th century. And that's, you know, early on, you were like, what? What was going on back then? Well, the Civil War was going on back then.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And he was a German immigrant who drew for Harper's Weekly when Harper's Weekly was really growing in their readership with a lot of pro-union political cartoons.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. There was one that I think kind of tracks with what you were saying. It's not at all funny, but it's super poignant.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Called Compromise with the South. Yeah, totally. The Democrats had run on a platform that the Civil War had been a failure up to this point for the 1864 election when Lincoln was standing for re-election, and that we should basically work with the South to just forget about the Civil War and end this. And Thomas Nast didn't like that one bit.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. So I won't say like we're at peak the golden age of it, but it's still alive and well and just sort of a different form.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
So this Compromise with the South image shows an amputee Union soldier standing on a crutch, shaking hands with his head bowed, shaking hands with a triumphant Confederate officer. Jefferson Davis. Is it Jefferson Davis? He's got like his his boot standing one foot on a union soldier's grave. And Columbia, who represents the United States, is weeping at that grave.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And then also poignantly, there's a union soldier, an African-American union soldier and his wife who are now on the southern side and they're shackled back to being slaves.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
It is. It's a really good example of a political cartoon that isn't funny, but really gets the point across. And apparently it had a huge impact on America, especially the union, right?
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, I mean, some people say that had a lot to do with Lincoln getting reelected. Lincoln referred to Thomas Nast at one point as our best recruiting agent. And in the 1868 election, Ulysses S. Grant credited his win to the Sword of Sheridan and the Pencil of Nast. I had never heard of Columbia before.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
But you'll see in a lot of these political cartoons, Colombia as a representation of America was used a lot. And I think this is just a guess. I didn't look it up, but it seems like Lady Liberty, Statue of Liberty has sort of replaced Colombia as far as the cartoon ship goes, because anytime there's like a sort of one of the sad gut punch ones, it's some shameful thing America has done.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. I've seen the golden age referred to as in the 19th century. And I'm like, these people didn't live through the 80s. That was the golden age, baby.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And like Lady Liberty is crying somewhere or something like that.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. I think Uncle Sam also displaced Columbia as well. And Thomas Nast is the one who popularized the current image of Uncle Sam with his hat and all that. That was Thomas Nast as well. He had a huge, huge impact as a political cartoonist.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Well, he was the guy who came up with the elephant and the donkey for the two political parties. That's right. And also popularized our current conception, American conception of Santa Claus.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, because remember, German immigrants are the ones who really brought Christmas to the United States. And Thomas Nast was a German immigrant, so he loved Christmas. And yeah, he gave us our version of Santa Claus.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
The thing that he's most remembered for as a political cartoonist, though, is that he is credited with taking down William Boss Tweed, who was one of the most corrupt political officials in the history of the United States. Apparently in a decade, he is thought to have stolen a billion dollars from New York City in today's money. Oh, man.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
It's incredible. Yeah. He's popped up a lot in our obviously our New York centric episodes about the history of New York. Very corrupt person for the, you know, Tammany Hall political machine. And I think Nast had more than 140 boss tweed cartoons alone in Harper's.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Oh, man, I saw, if I had a dime for every, like, cartoonish drawing of Tip O'Neill or Ronald Reagan I saw growing up as a kid.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. So, yeah, it was a big deal. Boss Tweed, very much like King Louis Philippe, was aware that these things were having an effect on him. And he apparently said, stop them damn pictures. I don't care a straw for your newspaper articles. My constituents can't read, but they can't help seeing them damn pictures.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And I mean, there was a lot of reporting at the time by some of the New York newspapers about Boss Tweed. And they definitely had some effect on getting him investigated and ultimately put into prison where he died.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
But like you really can't like you could put all those articles and combine them pretty much equally with Thomas Nast's political cartoons and be like, this is what what took down Boss Tweed. These two things basically equally.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, for sure. And, you know, there are a lot of times I think people think about political cartoons as coming from the political left or, you know, the liberal progressive side. And that is certainly true.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
But there, you know, all kinds of newspapers have always had political cartoons and all sorts of issues have been attacked from all angles from political cartoonists over the years have been, you know, plenty of examples of both. Nass was one of those that was sort of a contradiction. There's, you know, we'll talk a little bit about immigration and political cartoons throughout history.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And he was one who kind of hit it from both sides. He would draw one, one year in 1870, criticizing anti-immigration, the know-nothing party. And that was called throwing down the ladder by which they rose. And about a year later, Had political cartoons out, you know, criticizing Irish immigrants as violent drunks taking over the country.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, no, that's a really great point that they, editorial cartoons are, like, of the moment. Sometimes, like, of the day. where they, like, they'll still make sense later that week, but they're not hidden because something already changed or moved on. And they don't, as such, it's very rare that an editorial cartoon can still, like, land the way it originally did.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Right. Yeah. And this was a time when immigration was a huge, huge issue in the United States for probably the first time. It became like a flashpoint issue that you could run an entire campaign on.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
For example, there was a cartoon from 1903 in a satirical weekly called Judge called Unrestricted Dumping Ground.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
It is. And there's a lot going on in this cartoon. There's, it's color, which is, it really pops. But Uncle Sam is basically standing at the shores of the United States and And there's a bunch of immigrants swimming to the shore, but they're rats with human faces, which number one is unsettling, but number two is really offensive.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And they're being dumped out of basically, it looks almost like a mailbox or something that says the slums of Europe. And they're being dumped into New York Harbor. And Uncle Sam's just standing there watching, wondering if he can do anything about it. And then William McKinley is floating in like a cloud. The reason William McKinley was featured is because he was president.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
He was assassinated by a guy named Leo Cholgosh. In 1899 and Cholgosh born in Michigan, but he was considered a an immigrant because his parents were immigrants. So like this was the kind of stuff that was being run in papers and magazines at the time, basically saying like like immigrants are rats and like you can't let them in.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, well, and those rats also, just to further drive the point home, they had labels on these individual human rats that said, like, mafia, anarchist, socialist. So it was, you know, pretty on the nose, I guess you could say.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
There was another ad as far as the immigration front goes. Teddy Roosevelt at one point talked about hyphenated Americans being able to vote like that shouldn't happen. Irish American, German American. And this one was from Puck. magazine, which was, uh, is that American? Was that British? I thought that was British.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
I think punch was British and puck was American.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Punch was British. Um, but it had a caption again, uncle Sam saying, why should I let these freaks vote when they're only half American?
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, it's a really bizarre cartoon. It's tough to describe, but go look that one up. So one of the other things we said is that political cartoons sometimes also target policies, social issues. And there was a really good one that Dave turned up called From the Cradle to the Mill that really got across child labor or the need for child labor laws.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
It's this innocent-looking little probably five-year-old kid. I think he's holding a teddy bear still. And this dark, ghoulish spirit named Necessity.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, essentially, has come into the child's house and is taking him by the hand to lead him off to the mill for work. And it really, it gets the point across. Like, you know, this was from 1912. And if child labor was still an issue today, you could run it today. It just really just captured what the problem was.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
That means that whatever it was talking about was so historic that people decades on know what the ins and outs of it that the political cartoon is referring to. But for the most part, it's like... daily minutia of ongoing politics and government.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And if you just go back like 10 or 15 years, it's like, I forgot John Boehner even existed until I went back and looked at some of the old political cartoons. And it's so important at the time. But, you know, all these years on, it does not matter what that political cartoon was saying. At the time, it wasn't. That's a huge point about those things.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Oh, yeah. His wife, Kitty. That's right. And Dan Quayle spells potato wrong.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
But, like you said, it's sort of like Greatest Hits. You can look back at some Nixon Watergate political cartoons and totally get it, and they land. But they're not always funny, and that's the whole point of this. Or not the whole point, but it's satire. It's... Satire can be super, super funny, like if you read The Onion or something like that, or a well-made satirical film or television show.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
So I think we should talk about a guy named Herb Block or Herb Block was his pen name, cartoon name. And he's considered probably the most important political cartoonist of the entire 20th century. He's got three Pulitzers for cartooning alone and an additional Pulitzer for public service that he got for just excoriating Nixon over the Watergate scandal.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, I imagine if you're a political cartoonist during Watergate, you're kind of licking your chops a bit. Yeah, for sure. Or McCarthyism, like he was really around during a fraught, fraught time politically.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, he drew, just block alone, drew more than 100 cartoons about Watergate between 72 and 74. And that's something that I think bears pointing out. Political cartoonists are expected to draw a cartoon a day. Like, you didn't write an article every day. You didn't go cover something. You drew a political cartoon five days a week to run in the daily newspaper. Yeah.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. And 25 of them for Saturday and Sunday. Right. And Block actually, I mean, I talked about the time that he was there. I mean, it's actually pretty vast. He was there from 46 to 2001. Yeah. So he got to cover quite a bit politically. He coined the term McCarthyism. I think we talked about that in the McCarthyism episode in a 1950 cartoon.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
uh he was definitely you know on the on the left side of the political spectrum uh because he would go after you know environmental polluters and uh the and war the immorality of war uh the government you know as a whole and they have named um since 2004 the best editorial political cartoonist is named after him the uh her block prize
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. And I went and looked to see who some of the recent candidates or winners were. And there's one that I noticed. I was looking through current political cartoons and this guy kept coming up. His name was Pedro X. Molina. And he draws for counterpoint. So he is super lefty. He was a 2024 finalist for the Herblock Prize. But his cartoons are just on point. He's
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
I think probably the best working today of the younger generation. Oh, cool. One of the ones that I saw was there's an old extension cord outlet. It'll have the two outlets that you can plug into.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. It just looks old and worn and everything. And one of the outlets says Biden and the other one says Trump. And then also in the picture is an Apple charger. And that says Gen Z. They have nowhere to plug into.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And it's just there's no words aside from the names and Gen Z. And like it just, again, really gets the point across. But I like that guy's work.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, it also, instead of saying Gen Z, could have said a lot of America.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
So we should finish up by talking a bit about Charlie Hebdo. As promised early on, you mentioned that France has been a hotbed for satire since the get-go. And the radical satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo has been around for a long, long time, since 1960. Their original motto was mean and nasty.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
But it's a different kind of humor. A lot of times satire isn't necessarily laugh out loud stuff because the point of satire usually is to influence what somebody thinks about something through, in this case, an image.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And they made, we probably would not here in the States, unless you just are sort of in the know, not known much about Charlie Hebdo, had it not been for a couple of tragic events. On Halloween Day in 2011, they published an issue number 1011, They retitled, instead of Charlie Hebdo, they retitled the issue Sharia Hebdo for Sharia law.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And it was a cover in response to the Tunisian news where an Islamist party had won parliamentary elections there. And on the cover, it featured a cartoon rendering of the Prophet Muhammad. And the caption read, 100 lashes if you do not die laughing.
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Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
In Islam, any image of Muhammad is very much forbidden, much less a cartoon making fun of something. And violence ensued because of this.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, I think in 2012? No, that same year, 2011. So within a couple months, the offices were firebombed. No one was hurt. But in response, and I didn't know this, I thought it was just that cover, that drawing, which is, you know, like you don't do that. That's a violation of, like a huge violation of
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Islamic custom to make any kind of, like you said, picture of Muhammad, let alone making him a cartoon. But they went even further after the firebombing. And in 2012, they published more cartoons, one of which was Muhammad naked on all fours. And that actually, from what I can tell, is what triggered the murders of a bunch of the people who worked at the offices in 2015. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, it was two men stormed into the offices, murdered 12 people. This was, you know, the biggest news. There's a cat walking around outside my house right now that I do not recognize. Very interesting. Sorry, just caught me off guard. Yeah, it did. I was like, did one of my cats get out? It's like, no, it's not one of my cats. It's a bird. Yeah. Murdered 12 people.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Right. One of the explanations I saw for satire is that it uses a surface-level presentation of a point to point out that the counterpoint is actually the more sensible thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Probably not the best time to mention that during the middle of this awful, awful retelling, including the editor of of Charlie Hebdo for other cartoonists. It also went on to kill four Jewish people. And then the French police took them out.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. And so like immediately there were protests and marches in France, like millions of people across the country. And basically a meme was developed almost immediately. It was just sweet Charlie. And it means I am Charlie. And they were saying, like, I'm standing up for freedom of expression, freedom of speech. And yeah. that was pretty much the zeitgeist across all of France.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Like everyone stood up and supported Charlie Hebdo after that tragedy. And I saw, Chuck, that 10 years on, the 10-year anniversary just came and went this past January. Apparently people have changed their opinions in some cases. Like 31% of people polled agreed with the idea that Charlie Hebdo brought that on themselves.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Whereas that same, the answer to that question would have probably been in the low single digits right after the shooting.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. I thought that was interesting. I mean, how different things can change in 10 years, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. I mean, in the wake of a tragedy like that. Yeah. I'm not saying I agree one way or the other. I just I just I think a lot of times opinions change on stuff like that over time. Yeah. For certain people.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Ten years is a long time these days. It didn't used to be. But man, oh, man, a lot can happen in 10 years. We've learned to pack it in. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
So we mentioned early on that there's only 20 on-staff major newspaper cartoonists. The reason for that, as we all know, is newspapers are having a tough time. Declining subscriptions mean they don't want to have further declining subscriptions by angering readership.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
on either side of the political spectrum, because people might cancel over something like that, and they just can't afford that anymore. So people are more sensitive these days. Sadly, editors are not standing behind their cartoonists like they used to. And if they flag something, they'll pull it, and the cartoonist may quit or may be fired.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. I mean, if people complain about a political cartoon, it used to be like, hey, it's true. Now it's like, oh, sorry. And then they print a retraction and then fire the political cartoonist. That's new. That's the way that the industry is changing. But it seems to be pretty much relegated to newspapers now. And just some newspapers. Right. You know, like Mike Lukavich at the AJC.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
If I thought about that and saw it written down, I could probably figure out exactly.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
He's one of the premier editorial cartoonists still working today for a newspaper.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Okay, I've got one for you. Alexander Pope said, "'Praise undeserved is satire in disguise.'" No, still nothing? Okay, go watch the movie Soul Plane or Brian's Song and you will know what I'm talking about with satire.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Man, he's been around for a long, long time.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. And he doesn't pull punches. And I think the AJC is behind him every single time. Yeah, that's good. So it's not like... It's going to happen, you know, no matter what newspaper you work at. It just depends on the usually the outlook of the publisher. Right. And if you offend the publisher used to be like the editors would talk them down, but the editors don't do that anymore.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And so you can get fired. And there is a very well-known political cartoonist, another Pulitzer winner named Anne Telnaise.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And in 2019, she kind of saw the writing on the wall, and she published like a series, or not a series, it was a multi-panel cartoon that basically was an infographic explaining what political cartoonists do, the danger that they're in right now in the United States as far as like being canceled and fired, and then what the ultimate problem with that is.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And she essentially says political cartoonists are the canary in the coal mine. If we start getting fired for expressing opinions and views that are legitimate because people don't want to hear that, that is a big red flag that freedom of expression is under attack in your country. And she was saying that's basically happening right now. And she ultimately quit just earlier this year, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, she had been at The Washington Post for 17 years and quit because her editors there at The Post refused to publish one of her cartoons based only on her opinion. So it's yeah, that's kind of the state of things at The Washington Post these days.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yes. And across a lot of newspapers. Again, they're like an endangered breed. But that's specifically at newspapers. It's still a very thriving art form. And you can make a really good case that it's still around and very popular. It's just transmuted in a lot of cases to memes. Right. I'll give you an example of one I saw recently. You know, this is fine.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
The dog sitting at the table drinking coffee in a room that's on fire. I haven't seen that one. This is fine.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
It's a great meme. But in one panel, he's just sitting there and it says, arson is free speech now. And then the next panel, it's him just sitting there drinking the coffee in the room on fire. And he says, this is fine. And that, I mean... It's a meme. Somebody put it together probably using a meme generator.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
But you can also make a case that that is, in a lot of ways, it bears a strong resemblance to political cartoons. All right. You got anything else? I got nothing else. Okay. Well, since we got nothing else, that means this episode is done and it's time for listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
This one's Scrabble-centric. Before I read this email, we do have to acknowledge that we failed to mention the ultimate Simpsons reference, of course, of Quijibo. Very, very old Simpsons reference from an early episode where Bart Simpson, I think it was Bart, argued for Quijibo, which was just the letters as they appeared on his rack was a word, right? Mm-hmm. Right. Okay.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
You know, they used to use that in crying studies. That's the one thing I remember about Brian's Song was when I was a kid, I saw a news report where they're like, this new movie is so sad. And it showed people like in a room watching Brian's Song with these little tear gutters strapped to their face.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
So sorry about the Quijibo. We heard from a lot of people. But this is a different email. Hey, guys. The real reason I'm writing is to tell you about the role of Scrabble in my family's history.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
My parents loved to play Scrabble, and my dad, being the kind of guy he was, made up a table to record their stats by hand using a ruler, both to make sure the lines were straight and the columns are each the same width from page to page. Ended up using five pages or so of very thin lines. He would record the date and the game that was played in the final score and my mom's final score.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Two more columns in which he would track a running total of how many games each of them had won. Besides being a perfect example of my dad, there's also an interesting thing about the dates. There are three periods when they begin to play all the time following periods for which they hardly played at all in between each my two siblings and I were born. Yeah. That's pretty funny.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
They're like, why did things drop off for two years?
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Exactly. When my dad died, I inherited their Scrabble board and their record was in it. And this is one of my most precious possessions. That is from Reverend Eric.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
That's a sweet email. Thanks a lot, Reverend Eric. That was great. I can just imagine, man, making your own columns and rows with a ruler. That's dedication right there.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
I know those dads. I'm not that dad and my dad wasn't that dad, but I've known those dads.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yep. If you want to be like Reverend Eric and send us an email that tells us how sweet your parents were, we love those kinds of things. You can send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And I'm sure the political cartoon of the day about that had people crying and somebody said, are they watching Brian's song? And the guy says, no, they just found out Ronald Reagan was reelected governor.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Well, we also, you and I are, as we said on record many times before, grew up as adherents to Mad Magazine. And they didn't, I mean, they did political cartoons essentially. It just wasn't for a newspaper, but there was plenty of that stuff in there.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Nice point. One of the other things about political cartoons is they present an opinion. They do it in a way that's humorous, that's recognizable. You don't have to know how to read, which was for a long time the point of political cartoons. And it's presented in a way so that it takes everything you know. It makes assumptions about what you know, but usually they're pretty good at that.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And it takes everything you know and can turn it on its head, can point out the folly, the ridiculousness of usually governments, politicians, policies, that kind of stuff. But sometimes it's aimed unfairly at groups of people. The other point about it is that the actual like types of art it uses have been shown to neurologically like hit us different than say like a photograph.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, like when you draw a caricature of someone or exaggerate. Exaggerate? That was beautiful. The three-year-old, if you exaggerate something. Wait, hold on.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
That's all right. That's pretty good. Yeah, it has more of a, like neurologically more of an impact than an actual photograph of somebody doing something even ridiculous.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, it's called a supernormal stimulus or a super stimuli, which is it just hits your brain that much harder. And so the caricature, like it's just something people just figured out over time, building little by little to create like the optimal political cartoon, which apparently popped up around the 1950s.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Well, or if you go to, you know, a theme park or the streets of Paris or something and you see a caricature artist parked next to the realistic, like I'll do a realistic pencil sketch of you.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
You got like one person over there. You got 10 people in line trying to get a big old fathead version of themselves.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, because they want to be super stimulated.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Can I amend one thing that you said? You said that they use humor. Almost always that's the case. But some of my favorite political cartoons over the years, sometimes they'll have just the really brutally gut-punchy sad ones. Yes. That are very, very effective, you know.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, no, they definitely, it doesn't always have to be humor. You're right, for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
But what it always has to do is prove some kind of a point. There's never a political cartoon that's like, oh, this is just funny or something. Right. Because that's a comic strip or that's family circus.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Exactly. So I say we go way back to potentially the origin of political cartoons, which were religious in nature because back in the 16th century, when Martin Luther was trying to reform the Catholic Church, and ended up just kind of spinning off his own jam. Religion was politics. They were interchangeable. It was one and the same.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
So when he started printing woodcut cartoons that were really unflattering depictions of the Pope, and the bishops and the cardinals who aided the Pope, he was making a political statement. And so some people say that some of these prints from like way back in 1545, there's one called The Birth and Origin of the Pope, that this was essentially the first political cartoon ever printed.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Because that's another thing too. You have to have a mass medium to spread this idea And so this was shortly after the printing press was invented and almost off the bat, Martin Luther was among the people who were using it to make political statements using cartoons.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
That's right. And if you're at home saying like, I bet he did that because so many people couldn't read yet. You're exactly right. The printing press was brand new and that changed literacy for the world, basically. But right after it was invented, a lot of people still couldn't read. And so he knew that if he wanted to hit his target audience in the right way,
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
The birth and origin of the pope was a good way to do it. We'll describe a few of these that are sort of easy to picture. We're not going to get in the weeds, I think, kind of describing in detail pictures on an audio show. But this one is very simple. It was the pope and the cardinals being pooped out by a she-devil.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And then, yeah, and then nursed by other she-devils. Medusa's breastfeeding looks like a bishop in one part of this. It's really something. And that was, I think I said 1545. And then nothing happened for 200 years. And then a guy came along named William Hogarth. And those of you who really, really, really pay attention to the stuff we say might find that that name rings a bell.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And that would be because we talked about William Hogarth in our gin episode.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
That's right. There was a political cartoon he drew about, you know, drunks basically living at the corner of Beer Street and Jen Lane. And that was Hogarth, who's considered the grandfather of political cartoons. He was a serious painter, but then he got into making fun of rich folks in London.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yes, for sure. And he also it was a social commentary. So it was satire. It was exaggerated. That's another kind of key part of political cartoons. And it made a point about, in this case, society rather than politics. And so as a result, William Hogarth is considered the grandfather of political cartoons.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
He was not making political cartoons, but he definitely set out some of the points on the table that would later be picked up actually fairly quickly by printers, publishers and cartoonists, among whom was Benjamin Franklin, who started he ran what's considered the first American political cartoon back in 1754.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here too. And this is Stuff You Should Know. And that's it. It's the Andom edition.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. So that was only, you know, a couple of decades after Hogarth. Hogarth? Hogarth? His earliest work. So it was sort of in the same era. And as we all know, or maybe some people don't know this, Benjamin Franklin ran a newspaper. Yeah. The Philadelphia Gazette. And it was a cartoon.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
It was a it was a cut up rattlesnake with each section of the snake being a colony like, you know, New York had the abbreviation of the colony and it said join or die. And it was, you know, to try and rally people to unify against France in the lead up to the French and Indian War.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
and he is credited as uh even though he he probably didn't draw this thing he ran it he is credited for making the rattlesnake a popular symbol for the colonies of the united the well not united states yet the colonies yeah that's all i need to say and that's a pretty famous image that cut up snake as far as um the us is concerned um
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
But that was almost like a little sidestep for political cartoons because, again, nothing happened for a good 50 years. And then along came James Gilray. He is considered the father of political cartoons. He was drawing satirical images to lampoon and point out the folly of people in charge. In this case, King George III was his favorite target because he was British.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
He was also anti-colonial too. And so there was one very famous one that he did that depicts the prime minister at the time, William Pitt, with Napoleon carving up the world. To eat. Yeah, it's in the form of a plum pudding, also known as plum poutine. And Pitt and Napoleon are sitting at a table carving it up, just greedily eating the rest of the world.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
And apparently Napoleon was well aware of James Gilray because he had a pretty great quote, didn't he?
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, I used to do a good Napoleon. I'm not going to try, though. He said he did more than all the armies of Europe to bring me down. And if you look at this cartoon, it's it really sort of looks like what we know as a modern political editorial cartoon. It's really, really cool looking. It looks great. The art is great. But it just it sort of has that look.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, this is about editorial cartoons, a.k.a. political cartoons. They are one in the same. They usually appear traditionally in the editorial section or the opinion section of newspapers. So that's why you can call them either. And this is a profession. that appears to be dying out if you look at the number of editorial cartoonists that are, like, full-time staff at major newspapers. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
It seems like one of the or probably the first person who was making these cartoons that look like what we have today.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Right. That's why Gilbray is considered the father of the whole thing. That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
and he came around i think that the plum pudding in danger was the name of the one we were just talking about that was in 1805 and at the same time magazines started um being established and founded around this time that were dedicated to satire so the the form the art form of political cartoons and political satirical magazines came together at the very beginning of the 19th century not just in britain but france
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Turns out France is basically the Spears point of satire. Yeah. Did not know that, but it's the truth, everybody.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
I remember when the Charlie Hebdo stuff came out and we're going to talk about that in the act three here. But that's when I sort of learned like how, you know, astute and on point their satire had been for a long, long time. I didn't know that previously. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah. Doesn't seem like a very French thing, but I don't know. Maybe it is. I didn't either. But there is a guy from the early 19th century, I think, named Honoré Daumier. And Daumier actually got in trouble. I think he actually went to prison for his political cartoons, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire
Yeah, in the 1830s, the French government sort of relaxed their laws against censorship, and so he had a little bit more leeway, I guess, to operate. And initially, in 1831, he was threatened with a 6,000-franc fine in 1831. I don't know what the conversion is, but that's got to be a lot of dough.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah. And just to stick up for myself a little bit, the eight year old Chuck didn't realize he was being fed blatant misogyny at the time.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah, I was probably like, my dad's laughing, so let me bond with him. Exactly. Or try to, at least. So, no, no, no, do your laugh from the, that's not quite a laugh from the Halloween episode.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
All right, before we break, we should mention that he got into book writing in 1974. He would, like you said, go on to write many books, and I believe at the end of his life he even kind of hoped he would be remembered as an author forever. rather than the King of Schlock.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
But in 74, he published You and Me, Babe, You and Me, Babe, a fictionalized account of his marriage, which ended a couple of years after the book came out. But he gamed the system, like we talked about gaming the system for the New York Times bestseller list in that Shorty episode, landed on that New York Times bestseller list. But, you know, that's how he started his book writing career.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
All right, we're back. Josh left quite a cliffhanger with the word that Chuck Beres made a very faithful decision. And that faithful decision was to be the actual host of what would be the thing he was most known for, The Gong Show, which ran for but two years in daytime, then a couple of more years in syndication until 1980. And, you know, Beres said initially, like, I thought this would be
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
basically what we see now with like America's Got Talent, like a real talent show with real amateur talent. But he got a lot of bad people in there and decided to go a different route. And the show ended up being
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
very bad talent um that was uh i mean the premise of the show was they performed in front of celebrity a celebrity panel and if it was so bad that the celebrity panel uh one of them could or all of them sometimes could get up and hit the gong which would end their performance if they managed to make it through without the gong uh they would rate them on a scale of zero to ten
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah, they were game show celebrities. Kind of like match game level stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah, I mean, it was it was really, really funny because the talent was bad and you could laugh at that. The panelists really yucked it up. And sometimes one would have the gong hammer, the whatever you call the thing you hit the gong with is the mallet, I guess. And other celebrity, the panelists would be trying to rip it out of their hands and like, no, no, no, let it go.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
They're all hamming it up. And Chuck Barris as host. Was he was he's probably the weirdest TV show host in TV show history and in just how he hosted a show and how he behaved, the weird things he did. It was just very awkward and strange.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
So I don't think we said that if you won, you get a little gong trophy and you get a check for five hundred and sixteen dollars and thirty two cents, which was the SAG minimum daily rate at that time. And what the gong show again in retrospect retrospect became known for in some ways was.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
The fact that some real, you know, talented people sometimes got their break there, sometimes didn't necessarily get their break. But they were it was the first time they'd ever done anything, you know, on television before. Sing country singer songwriter Boxcar Willie was on the band Oingo Boingo when they were the Mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Probably. And they're probably best known now for the fact that their lead singer and songwriter was Danny Elfman.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah, he was on the Dating Game a few times as sort of the proto Pee Wee Herman character. The Gong Show 14 times. And he later in his career credited Chuck Beres. He was like, if it hadn't been for me getting just the SAG minimum payment to be on that show, that made me able to focus on my career and my work with the Groundlings Improv Group and not have to get another job.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Um, and the fact that like, I got to workshop this character, uh, it got me in the public eye. Like he really kind of, uh, credited Chuck Barris with, uh, not only helping him, but all kinds of struggling artists. Um, besides Ongo Boingo and Boxcar Willie, uh, Andrea McArdle was a, was a 12 year old who performed on the gong show and she would get cast, uh,
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah. And the reason we're talking about Chuck Beres is not just the fact that he was way ahead of his time in a lot of ways as far as what kind of content he was putting on television, like a real visionary. If you look back at what we're seeing today, you know, and what he was doing at the time. But the reason we're talking about Chuck Beres is because he did that.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
as the Broadway lead in Annie because she was discovered on that show. So, you know, things like that were, were happening. Another singer named, did you mention Cheryl Lynn?
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah. She got a recording contract, another singer because of her appearance on the gong show.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
It was. I mean, he was a groundling. He's a very funny guy. He was, I mean, he was known most for Pee Wee, obviously, and I think he at times felt like he was sort of stuck in that character. It became so big he couldn't do anything else. But he was also very in love and appreciative with that character, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
He didn't get enough of those chances, unfortunately, but I think we should do a Pee Wee episode at some point.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
All right. So the end would come for Chuck Barris as far as his TV work goes at his peak. This is staggering. And this is, you know, mind you, a time when there were three main television networks. It was even pre Fox as far as programming goes.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
He was supplying 27 hours a week of programming of TV game shows, which is I mean, I don't know what percentage of that overall, you know, of their overall programming that was. But 27 hours a week is your King Daddy TV if you're doing that.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Oh, totally. And in 1980, sort of at the peak, I guess it was starting to wane a little bit. He shut it down, sold his TV company for supposedly a hundred million bucks, did a little TV here and there, but basically that was it for him. And one of the reasons, and there are many, you know, taste change and people were sort of moving away from that kind of thing a little bit, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
But the show called Three is a Crowd that he pitched, In the 60s and then would later do a pilot for in the 70s had a lot to do with his downfall.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
And also, as we will learn in Act Three, well, we'll learn it now, but we'll get into it in Act Three. Chuck Beres also wrote a book in 1984 after his TV career was pretty much over, wherein he... Said basically that while this was going on, he was a secret assassin for the CIA and carried out at least 33 murders on behalf of the American government.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah. Thinly veiled mistress is what they should have called it.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah. He retreated. Uh, but not before, uh, made one final mistake which was uh in 1980 the gong show movie um pretty much universally known as one of the worst movies ever made it was uh robert downey senior was gonna write and direct it uh as a slapstick comedy chuck barris didn't like that direction so he took over as director
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Turned it to a more serious thing about him and, you know, Chuck Barris's story of and how difficult it was to be sort of known as the king of schlock. And it was just a mess. Yeah, I didn't see it, but I remember when it came out. I even remember at the time it being a massive failure.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
You know, I think the lesson we can learn here from our TV show, from that one, and from the Gong Show movie, is that slightly fictionalized versions of a real job don't go over too well.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
And that was a book called Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, also made into a film of that same name, which makes this sort of an obvious pick for something for us to go over.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah. And, you know, the the idea was that he was it was the perfect cover because nobody would suspect Chuck Beres, TV producer, king of schlock of doing something like this. So the CIA just loved it. Did you see the movie?
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GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah, it was pretty good. It wasn't great, but it was pretty good. It was it was a weird movie and it was a weird book when he there were some critics. I believe Jeff Simon from Buffalo News said that Chuck Barris is alive and well and living in schizophrenia.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Other reviewers tried to suggest that it was a metaphor and that it's really about a guy that's struggling so much with his life as an outsider that it was, you know, it was all just metaphor.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
All right, suggesting with this conceit is that he spent his life as an outsider, an assassin of sorts, dealing with a species that frightens and baffles him.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
There's a lot of leeway there for what Barris was intending. And I don't know what he was intending, and no one really does. The only interview with any clear sort of indication that it was all a put on was when he gave to Regis and Cindy Garvey on the morning show when the book was released, when he very, you know, in a very straightforward way said, I was not in CIA.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
I wanted to be got an FBI background check, but then got my job working in television, which is what I wanted to do. And that the version of me in this book is just a character. But he did say a character crucified by the critics for entertaining the public. So there, you know, there was maybe a little bit of metaphor to it after all.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
I don't. It popped up somehow, and I was like, because I saw that movie, and I was like, oh, yeah, that's so weird that Chuck Beres wrote a memoir in which he said that he was a CIA assassin. Yeah. Like, what was up? Because I never even, like, did any research to see how untrue that may or may not have been. So that was really kind of it.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah, I mean, it's sort of that. And, you know, I do agree with this is the American way as far as entertainment goes, which is boo sex and yay violence. But, you know, there's a difference between, you know, he wasn't filming like tasteful love scenes. It was it was some pretty blatant misogyny happening.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah, for sure. The CIA, for their, as far as they go, they were like, of course, in 2002, a spokesman named Tom Crispell for the CIA said, it's absurd. It sounds like he's been standing a little too close to the gong all those years, which, of course, Chuck Beres said, yeah, of course, that's what they're going to say. Have you ever heard the CIA acknowledge someone was an assassin? Right.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah. And it's seemingly a good way to sell books, even though it didn't turn out that way, right? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah. I mean, an interesting choice. Uh, And it was a pretty good movie. Like Sam Rockwell was great as Chuck Beres, like the perfect casting. But man, Charlie Kaufman is so unique in his take and spin on things. I would have really loved to seen what that movie would have been.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Maybe we can get our hands on it. I remember years ago, my friend Stacy, who still works in the film business, would give me screenplays at the time when she would get them from her jobs. I was trying to learn how to write scripts, and so it's always good to read scripts. And she gave me one called The Orchid Thief. by Charlie Kaufman.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
And I read it and I, uh, I read it in a night and called her the next day. And I was like, Stacy, I've never read anything like this before in my life. Like this is the craziest movie and narrative I've ever heard of. And that would become adaptation. And that's the first time I had heard of Charlie, Charlie Kaufman was reading that script like before they even made the movie.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Oh, one point, your favorite movie, Autofocus. Autofocus.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah, I mean, with Catch Me If You Can, it makes sense because it's Spielberg, but autofocus was Paul Schrader. So that, I mean, he's not known for being slick in Hollywood. So that is, I just remember early on when you and I were getting to be friends at work, you talked a lot about autofocus.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Which is just – Yeah, it was almost like a two-over.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah. So here we go on the Baron of Bad Taste, the King of Dynamite television. I've got one. The King of Schlock and, drumroll. The Ayatollah of Trashola.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Oh, wow. Yeah. I mean, a real visionary in a lot of ways and just a kind of a kooky guy. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
That's right. Quick correction on ADHD, guys. And we do want to read this one because it's kind of an important thing we got wrong. Oh, no. I want to point out a minor correction. Toward the end, it was mentioned a couple of brand name drugs that are amphetamine-based stimulants, Adderall, Vyvanse, and Stratera. Stratera, though, guys, is one of the non-stimulant ADHD medications.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
It is a selective norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor and is not a controlled substance. I couldn't help pointing it out because I'm a pharmacist and miscategorizing a pharmaceutical could keep listeners from trying something that could help them if they're adverse to amphetamines.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Regardless, I have to say I've always been meaning to send in an email. Thanks for the work you've done. Abid listener for five years, and it's truly fascinating to learn about the variety of topics. And I really love the chemistry you guys have between each other. I get it. And that is from Michael Ahn.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Big time. It would seem like a pretty important suite to a lot of folks. And that means a lot to us.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah, and I had even several personal friends that knew they had ADHD that were like, I never knew this part of my life was due to that even. And, you know, that's great. It makes us feel good.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah, like killing people. Who knows? But he is a guy from Philly, went to, at the time, Drexel Institute of Technology, now Drexel University in the 50s, wanted to be a songwriter for Tin Pan Alley for a little while, ultimately would write a song, which we'll get to.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
And then decided he wanted to get into television and became a page at NBC in 1955, which went nowhere because the daytime sales department he was a page for at the time was eliminated. But that gave him the TV bug.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Although he was married to her for 19 years. I will point that out. You know, so it seems like a real marriage.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah. In the end, when Dick Clark testified in front of the U.S. House subcommittee, it was about, you know, payola scandals of, you know, pay for play basically for music, which was illegal. It actually got him out, like you said. And Dick Clark was like, hey, buddy, I wonder what you were scribbling on all that whole year. But you helped me out inadvertently.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
And now you got a full time job in our daytime TV department here at ABC.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah, for sure. Even though his songwriting career, I mean, that was kind of it for for songwriting because his TV career was taking off. He, by all appearances, was a very hard worker. And, you know, I don't want to come across as we're just, you know, singing Chuck Beres's praises constantly here. He changed the game in a lot of ways in TV. But as we'll see later,
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Because it was the 70s, there was a lot of misogyny tied into stuff he was doing on TV, which we'll get to. Just wanted to sort of level set on that.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
But when he was working for ABC, he worked his way up to director of daytime programs. And initially got on the map with them by making a pilot about it was called people poker.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
And it was it was sort of the the first sign that he wanted to do a different kind of game show, like sort of a what would become like a Jerry Springer type thing with a game show component with as far as people poker goes was people were on the show to guess the professions of different other people in this pilot, which is, I believe, as far as it went. He had all women on the show.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
He had brain surgeons, police officers and sex workers. And it ended up that the cops and the sex workers got into a literal fight. And the show obviously didn't go anywhere. And he left ABC not too long after.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah. And the dating game was huge. I mean, I watched a lot of dating game as a kid. Jim Lang was the original host back then. Eventually, Chuck Woolery would take over. He'll be back in two and two, as we all know. And if you've never seen the dating game, the format was there are three potential dates hidden on the other side of a screen.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
And a woman interviews these three men and then supposedly goes on a date with one of them. But what it became known for eventually was people coming on early in their career who were underemployed or unemployed actors. So Sally Field, Schwarzenegger, Tom Selleck, Jon Hamm, Andy Kaufman as Latke. Like workshopping a character as a contestant on the dating game.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
As an eligible bachelor on the dating game. Oh, yeah. It was a big deal. It was a huge show. And I want to quickly plug this new movie from Anna Kendrick, Woman of the Hour on Netflix. Have you heard of it?
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
It's good, man. Anna Kendrick's directorial debut. She knocked it out of the park, I think. It's a really effective movie about the true story of a dating game bachelor, Rodney Alcala, who was a serial killer. And he was on the game after he had been a serial, while he was a serial killer, won the dating game.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
I was about to say, man, this was right in my cultural wheelhouse from like seven to ten. But that makes it a little young for you or a little old for you, I guess.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
And the woman who was the bachelorette refused to go on the date with him because he was such a creepy weirdo. But it's a really effective movie like she nails the the threat that a woman feels generally from men like more effectively than maybe I've seen anyone ever do it like crawling out of your skin. Wow. Just by this guy like being in a parking lot with her at night like that kind of thing.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah. And so for the first time on TV, you had people airing parts of their personal lives on television and you had people that Chuck Barris even acknowledged, like the prize money wasn't good on these shows, like they were doing these shows to be on TV.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Okay. So did you, did you watch any gong show ever? Like was it reruns or something?
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
Yeah. And the data shows that 80% of newlywed couples in the 70s, their dream prize was an all-expense-paid trip to Acapulco.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
All right. So Barris is killing it with Dating Game and Newlywed Game. He started just producing show after show after show. The only one I will mention is the only one from this list that I really watched, which was the $1.98 Beauty Show hosted by the late, great Rip Taylor. Yes.
Stuff You Should Know
GONG: The Chuck Barris Story
It was so good. The prize was a dollar and ninety eight cents. And Rip Taylor is just a legend and, you know, sort of an American gay icon in the 70s.
Stuff You Should Know
Fentanyl: Actually As Dangerous As They Say
Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff You Should Know
Fentanyl: Actually As Dangerous As They Say
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Let's just say that. I almost got really fancy for a second, but I'm just going to say they were internal into each town, growing and growing and growing, connecting subscribers. But each town was kind of like its own isolated island of telephony.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
No, but I say we take a break, leave this as a cliffhanger, and when we come back, we'll say whether or not they were eventually able to do it.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Okay, so when they finally did start connecting towns, they would use switch ports, right? So your town would be connected to another town by a switch port. They used trunk lines. These were like these longer, stronger lines that people would use to connect one town to another. And let's say that you were in Topeka and you wanted to talk to Tacoma, Washington. Okay. To great T-towns? Sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Boy, this is going terribly. But I think it really illustrates how kludgy the whole thing was. And then it would go from Muncie slash Munchie to Garee, Indiana. Okay. And then to, I don't know, onwards and upwards until finally switchboard after switchboard after switchboard after switchboard, town to town to town.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Yeah. First, I want to give a shout out. If you ever find yourself in the town of Maitland, Florida, go to the Maitland, I think, well, it's the telephone museum. There's probably not more than one telephone museum in Maitland, even though I can't remember the name of it. Just ask somebody for directions there and they will tell you or ask your app. Regardless, it's really cute.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
It would finally connect all the way through all these towns from switchboard to switchboard, you to your friend in Tacoma who wasn't even home.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
You know, for that call, they brought Alexander Graham Bell out of retirement because he'd left a super big, fat, rich man by this time and had him talk to Watson. Remember, the first phone call was room to room between him and Watson. He said, Watson, come here. I need you. And on this huge, monumental, historical phone call from New York to San Francisco, Bell said, Watson, come here.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
I need you again. And Watson said, I will, but it's going to take me a week to get there.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Yeah, they had detectives that would go bust down doors and confiscate bogus phones, which were phones that weren't part of the Bell network, which again held a patent. Then even after the patent expired, they would just sue anybody and everybody. They would bribe officials to keep new phone companies from being allowed to develop phones. or found themselves. It was really ruthless.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
And one of the reasons it was ruthless is because JP Morgan by this time was the head of either AT&T or Bell's board of directors. And Bell eventually bought AT&T And just consolidated, consolidated, consolidated.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
They would either, following JP Morgan's typical example, they would either buy up the competition or crush them out of existence if the competition didn't want to sell at AT&T Bell's price. So this is just how it was like that. I don't remember what year the U.S. government finally stepped in and broke up Bell. into smaller versions of itself.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
But it was a monopoly, a government-sanctioned monopoly for decades. And in some ways, this was good because in other cases where local phone companies were allowed to compete, it was super kludgy. Sometimes you had to subscribe to two different companies to be able to call two different friends, depending on who they were subscribed to. The rates were all over the place.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
It's not the biggest museum you'll ever find, but it's a very dedicated museum.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
There was very little regulation. So having this monopoly was good in some ways, but in others, monopolies typically overall are not good for the health of an economy.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Yeah, I think we should talk about phone numbers.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Oh, you'd love this. There's a bank of wall telephones from the 70s, probably. And each one's a different color. It's very pretty. Oh, my God. Yeah, you would like this place, Chuck. It reminded me that something that was just such an integral part of our life is a completely obsolete, outdated, antique technology. There's basically no reason for it to exist any longer.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Right. And the reason why, like if you have four numbers, you can accommodate up to 10,000 subscribers. But as you add more and more numbers or even letters, then you can add more and more people. And so I think that the numbers or the letters eventually or initially changed. We're like that went to this particular switchboard station.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
And that was this one group of people in town whose connections were all coming out of this one station. So if you ask for Klondike 5555, it took you to this one switchboard. And then that switchboard operator would find subscriber 5555 and connect it. And the reason also I keep going to Klondike 5 is because that's the original 555 fake number in movies.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Like if you watch movies, they ask for Klondike 5 all the time. Like that's the phone number because apparently the phone company set aside the 555 exchange for use by movies.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Oh, really? Did you tell them to go to hell?
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
So did you or did you not tell them to go to hell with their script?
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Okay. There's a big difference. So to get a little further to wrap that up, so those letters were eventually overtaken by numbers because, again, I don't even know if I said it and we edited it out, but if you look at an old phone, I think even a new phone still. You said it. Okay. The numbers are associated with specific letters.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
So two is associated with ABC, three is associated with DEF and so on. So if it was Klondike, that's KL, both of those are on the five. So eventually it just became 555, whatever the rest of the thing is. And when we went to all numbers, that was a big step in the direction of eventually phasing out switchboard operators. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Yeah. But area codes weren't around for a while. I think it was.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Oh, I don't remember exactly when it was, but I'm looking. That's why I'm still kind of talking a little bit.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
No, no, no. You're right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. There was just an exchange. It wasn't. Yes, you're right. Mine was 382-9040. All right. Sorry.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
And it may not, as far as I know.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
That would be pretty awesome. What would be through the portal? Either gnomes or robots. It's got to be one of the two. Really earthy or really futuristic? Adam Curry? Wait, wait. Which one?
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
I think you still have to have it to connect some home alarm systems maybe, but that's the only application I know of anymore.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
I feel like we went long before the first break. So let's keep going.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Yeah, which is even adjusted for inflation. That's only $1.50 an hour today. Yeah. Pretty meager. But she was a pioneer. And probably one of the reasons why she kept her job was eventually it had a lot of prestige to it. It was one of the more respected jobs a woman can have, but it was also one of the very few jobs a woman could have.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
So women proved to be a fairly docile workforce because they had so few choices, other choices for work. And so they were exploited to the bone as phone operators, sadly, as it turned out.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Well, this is to get a job as a switchboard operator.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
I mean, I just don't think that there's any reason for them to exist anymore. I'm sure I'm wrong, but that's the best I can come up with is home alarm systems.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
You're required to speak the King's English and not in a cockney way or a northern way. Yeah. And so women would accept these positions. Again, these were coveted positions. In some cases, they paid them and gave them financial freedom. They were looked upon with respect by their community.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
To make it as an operator, even be hired as an operator, it told the rest of society, this one's a good egg because we only hire the best eggs. One of the things, though, like you said, was that there were really strict rules on their behavior, how they comported themselves when speaking to customers, and then just how they even sat and positioned themselves at their switchboard.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
There's a 1910 booklet that the Bell Company wrote that Kyle found where they were saying, like, do not answer these calls with hello. They said, would you rush into an office or up to the door of a residence and blurt out, hello, hello, who am I talking to? When they put it like that, it's actually a reasonable thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
But what's funny also is there was a big debate initially when phones were invented between whether the proper way to answer a call was hello or hoi hoi. And Alexander Graham Bell was a hoi hoi boy. And Thomas Edison, who was his big rival in founding phone companies, he was a hello guy. And that's why you'll hear Mr. Burns say hoi hoi when he answers the phone.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
It's just going to show how ridiculously old he is.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
To keep this amazing network of technology still around?
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Did you write it in nail polish?
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Oh, okay. I never had a phone that had any feature like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
I thought you actually wrote it on the screen.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
So, oh, there were a couple of things that I saw that were really harsh. There was an interview that I found, I think, American Experience. They did a documentary on the telephone. And they were interviewing like some of these original operators. And one of them was like, so they used Taylorism. So there was like five supervisors to every single like switchboard operator.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
And they would just hover over you like a hawk. They would constantly be like, come on, girls, faster, faster, that kind of stuff. And this woman was like, if you even lifted your head up from your switchboard, not even looked around, not even talked, like you just lifted your head up, four supervisors would be on you being like, what do you need? What's going on?
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
There was another one that I think it was on history.com. They were writing about telephone operators. And they quoted from a woman who was like one of the original ones who said, I had to work 10 unpaid hours as punishment for a single giggle. Like that's how just regulated the women operators were for decades and decades. That was just part of the job.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
I didn't, but I worked for another company. I have a story about that.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Yeah, they could not do that. They would get in trouble and possibly fired for that kind of stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
So actually, one of the cool things is they figured out that, OK, wait, there's thousands of us in this workforce. Let's form a union. And they were told, no, they can't form a union. So they said, OK, we're going on strike. And I think in 1919, New England telephone operators walked out and just crippled the phone network for basically half of New England.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
And the company was very quick to be like, OK, what did you say you wanted to begin? Yeah, exactly. So that was pretty cool. But for the most part, they were treated rather poorly.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Or does this shirt make me look fat?
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
They were. And there were like five things you could say to a customer, no matter what they said to you, no matter how abusive they were, anything like that. You could say like, thank you or something like that. Saffron. Yeah, right. That was the safe word.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
The supervisor would come over and be like, hey, hey, what are you saying?
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Are you allowed to leave if not say saffron?
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
That's right. There goes the flower. Wireless is better, I know. I don't think it's just nostalgia. I think there is some real value. It's not pointless to look at the telephone system that was created over the decades in the 20th century and just be impressed. Like it wasn't a marvelous technology and it did some amazing stuff while it was around. It's just we've moved on technology wise.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Well, they would pass them along. I don't know if they were making up the orders themselves. Do you think anybody would have thought that? I did.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
No, but it was still hilarious to hear you say it.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
I know. That was very cool. It's sad that it took that long, but at least they finally got there. Yeah. I'm sorry. I keep imagining a whole cadre of operators just making up orders for bombing. This lady just said to storm the beach. It's just chaos.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Okay, Chuck, so I think I said before that once they started going to all numeric, well, numbers, that was like a huge first step toward automating the system and eventually phasing out human operators. And one of the reasons why is because you can take numbers and you can quantify them essentially.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
And that's what those original phones, the rotary phones, then apparently the fake keypad phones would do when you dialed a number. your finger would eventually hit a stop. For like a three, the stop was closer. For the zero, the stop was an eternity away. Because once you hit the stop, the dial would go back to the original position.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
And as it did, it would put out, you know, three impulses, say, three electrical impulses when you dial the three. And what that did was it told the automated switches that were eventually invented to start paying attention and start dialing some numbers here because I just sent some electrical impulses.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
What did I say? Impulses? Did I? Yeah. It's a little late in the day, and my brain is mush from all the engineering week we've been doing.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
No, hey, you got me back for the operators giving directions.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
But that doesn't mean you can't appreciate it.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
You think it was the dial up like when you.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Yeah. I don't know if I knew that either, though. It seems new to me. So if I did explain it before, it didn't stick.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
One thing I do think we talked about in the phone freaking episode was the invention of the Strouger switch, which was invented by an undertaker named Almond Brown Strouger. And the reason that he came like an undertaker in Kansas City invented the automated phone switchboard, because as legend has it, he was losing business to a rival undertaker whose wife was the town operator.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
So when people call up and said, undertaker, please, she would just route him to her husband's business and leave Stroud's business out. And he's like, you know what? I want to get rid of the operator. So he went and invented one of the more sophisticated pieces of technology that was around at the time. And this is in 1890 that he came up with the first automated switch. And it is impressive.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
I do, actually. It's really fascinating.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
All right. So let's say that you dialed that three, right? That first number, those three impulses, I think in slang it's just called pulses.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
They went down the line and they hit the first switch and they told the first switch, okay, we're going to three. And so that would narrow down the number of subscribers to this telephone switchboard whose number started with three. Oh, yeah. And then the next number would come in, five.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Right? Yeah. Five impulses of electricity would come to the second switch and it would tell that switch, OK, now we're just trying to get to the people whose first two numbers are three, five and so on and so on until finally all eight, no, yeah, seven numbers. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
were dialed, and so it led to the only person whose phone line could possibly be connected to this specific circuit of seven numbers, and then it would connect the call from the caller to the callee. Wow, that's pretty cool. Yeah, it's really amazing. This guy came up with this in 1890.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
I don't know either. But that's a great point.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
But that meant that there were humans who were walking around knowing how to connect Topeka to Tacoma. They knew the combination of switches to connect or the number of levers to pull, the number of like wishes to make. I don't know. So cool. And they would they knew how to connect a call like that and not just to Topeka to Tacoma, like whatever city to whatever city. They just knew how to do it.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
And I mean, that's impressive. Yeah, that's just an overlooked part of history that there were people walking around who knew how to do these complex algorithms, basically. And they were all different for depending on what city was calling what city. So that kept operators around for much longer than they would have been had long distance not existed because they got phased out at the local level.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
But for long distance calling, they were just too valuable to get rid of at the time.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Well, number one, there's no landlines. There's just, you get like an alarm, somebody's house alarm, I think maybe. Yeah. And then number two, there's no zero anymore. Gen Z got rid of it. All right. Good deal. So I think by the 70s, the whole thing was digitized. There was no corded switchboards any longer. But there were some like pockets of switchboards that were still around, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
That held on long beyond the time it was necessary. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Give me Klondike 5, 6,000. Exactly.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
In Kerman, and what was sweet was I saw one of the reasons that the owner of the company held on to human operators for so long was because there were so many migrants who lived in town that the phone operator was bilingual and could help connect calls between people who spoke two different languages.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
No, I'm serious. That's what they said at the company picnic. That's our specialty.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
I mean, I don't know why you're getting the impression that I don't believe you. I believe what you're saying.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
I'm still thinking about the operators telling everybody to bomb Rouen or something. You got anything else?
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Big thanks to Kyle for helping us out with this one. It was very technical and complicated. And since I said technical and complicated, it's time for Listener Mail.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Very nice. Appreciate that big time. Who was it?
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Thank you very much, Karen. I'm just going to call him Karen. Sure. If you want to get in touch with us like Karen did and give us a great story that kind of sums up, ties up, circles up a story that we talked about, we love that kind of thing, you can send us an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Yeah. Not dots and dashes, but hey's and how are you's. Or ahoy's. Yeah, right. So he did this in 1876, right? He set out to figure out the telegraph clogging and invented the phone pretty quickly. The next year he founded Bell Telephone Company. And the first permanent telephone wires were in Boston, I think that same year. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
So we had telephone service set up within a year of him inventing the telephone. One of the other things, too, is he helped kind of spread telephone technology by giving lectures that people would come see and then go off and like build their own versions that would work.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
But initially, when you were talking to somebody on a telephone, your telephone was physically connected to their telephone, which made a lot of sense initially. But if you want to talk to more than one friend in town... You need another wire to connect your phone to somebody else's telephone and so on and so forth.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
And if you just kind of follow that logical path, you very quickly realize like, man, we're going to need a lot of wires to connect one person to everybody else and everybody else to that one person. It's just that's the definition of exponential growth. And so they figured out they needed a different way rather than connecting each telephone physically.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
And that's where they came up with the concept of the switchboard. That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Yes. One thing really quick, too, when some of these first commercial switchboards popped up in towns like the one in New Haven that I guess George Coy was the inventor of, they would publish phone books. And the first phone books would be like one page with like 50 people's names on. Because when you called, you would call. And your call would be connected by an operator.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
So you'd pick up your phone, and the only person it would go to is the operator or switchboard. And you would say, I want to talk to Chuck Bryant, please. And the operator would look up where your jack was that went to your house. and then now connected the call, right? So they would plug my phone cord into your phone jack and connect our call.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
But first, they would plug in themselves to you and say, Josh Clark calling for Charles Bryant. And you would say, tell him I'm in the shower. And they would plug back into mine and be like, he's in the shower. He can't talk right now. And I would say, tell him that I know he's not in the shower and hang up angrily. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
But first they spend 10 minutes going down each jack like Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, Chuck.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Right. Exactly. And one of the other things about a central switchboard, too, is there's a phone company employee connecting calls. And so now you can track things more easily and hence bill people more accurately, too. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
I'm sure there's some listeners like, I didn't have a phone when I was a kid. Well, maybe. So as more and more people had phones, more and more jacks were required in switchboards. So you're getting bigger switchboards, more switchboards. It became kind of a mess in and of itself, as we'll see. That was known as the switchboard problem, right? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
But then finally they figured out, okay, there's a few tweaks we can do here that are going to allow us to support this growth. Because the phone companies weren't like, whoa, we're good at 10,000 subscribers. Let's just hold here. They wanted everybody to have a phone so they could bill everybody for using those phones.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
And also America or the United States or the world, I think, was like, we really want to be able to pick up the phone and talk to people. It was a huge challenge. enormous technology that completely changed how humans interact with one another. So everybody wanted a phone. Phone company wanted to give people phones.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
The big sticking point was how you can connect that many people in an efficient way and not just keep adding switchboard after switchboard after switchboard.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Football phone from Sports Illustrated.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
No, I think you got it. Provider. Provider.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Internet service provider, ISP. Okay.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Yeah, I remember Yumi has a story from when she was a kid of going to the phone store with her dad and renting a princess phone. I remember it.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
It is weird. It's just weird to think of. But like you said, that was a way for them to control revenue even more. And also, I think it made it more available to more people because I think even into the 60s, the 70s, phones were still kind of expensive to make. And so they were expensive to buy. So you could lease them. But I think ultimately it was it was really the phone companies.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
And they were able to get away from this, as we'll see, because for years and years and years, there was essentially a monopoly on the phone in the United States.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. Ring, ring. There's Jerry. And this is Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Right. Yeah. So the A person, the person at the A board would be like, oh, yeah, Josh is on B board 72, but Chuck is on B board three. So I need I need to be the one that connects B board 72 and B board three for this call. These are human beings doing this and expected to do it really fast, too, as we'll see.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
What's the number for dominoes?
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Yeah. And the current in the line was a huge thing, too. Not only would it light up the little light above your jack showing the operator like, oh, this guy's trying to call right now. But it also allowed for telephones to carry a little bit of a current, which was how the voice was broadcast anyway. But it was one more thing that they controlled.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
They powered everything, which made the whole thing more efficient. Rather than having a bunch of batteries out by the lines, there was a central group of batteries and power generation that came from the main office too. So when you put all this stuff together, they got really good at analyzing traffic too to kind of put resources together. where it needed in any given time.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
You put all this together for the next four or five decades, the phone system just kept expanding and expanding and expanding. But there was always a frontier. These were individual cities, individual towns. And if the town or the city was close enough to another town or city, They would probably be able to connect. But for the most part, these phone systems are growing intra, well, internally.
Stuff You Should Know
Switchboards: Please Hold While We Connect You
Yeah. He keeps mentioning fish and chips every, like, few paragraphs.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
He put them all into a collection that he attributed to Mother Goose. So I couldn't find definitively that he invented Mother Goose, but he certainly made Mother Goose a star.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Oh, well, we should probably say that the reason why there's not a lot of people that you've heard of today because they stopped adding bones in 1860. They said that's enough. This is a little nuts. Somebody thought of this like almost 100 years ago. They were clearly insane. Paris went along with it. Let's just pretend like it was OK, but just stop doing it any further.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
I looked to see if he ever went and visited the catacombs, and I could not find that he ever did. So let's just say he didn't.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah. So when you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, share it with your network, and get qualified candidates that you can manage all in one place.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah. And actually, based on LinkedIn data, 72% of small businesses using LinkedIn say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality candidates.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
So, Chuck, there's been at the catacombs a lot of bone deposits, bone stacking, that kind of stuff. But that, I think we said at the outset, that takes up just a really small amount of all of the tunnels that are under Paris. They've done some other really fascinating stuff. Dozens and dozens of different interesting, really creative, inventive things with these tunnels, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah. I don't remember mentioning that in our Amaro episode, but we definitely talked about chartreuse.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah, which is about 15 and a half degrees Celsius for our French friends.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Exactly. One of the things that made it so appealing in addition to being able to keep it at like a constant cave temperature, cave age to anything is pretty great typically. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Um, this is also real estate in the heart of Paris that, you know, you can use some steps and go up street side and all of a sudden you're right there at your customers without having to pay the incredibly high price of real estate in Paris topside.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
I recommend it. Have you ever been to the Moulin Rouge?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah. For some reason, I'm going to have to ask you never to use the word fruit and mushroom near each other again. I find it troubling for some reason. Really? Yeah. Mushrooms fruiting is, I don't like that at all. That's really funny. Yeah. All right. But I'm serious though.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Okay. Thank you. Although you do owe me about seven or eight mentions for that oyster stew.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Okay. So the Moulin Rouge is generally topless dance numbers typically, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Oh, good. Oh yeah, that's right. You should tell everybody you're finally feeling good.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Congrats. So let's see. What else, Chuck? Oh, I was totally joking when I said there's been hundreds of creative uses. There's been basically three, and two of them are technically the same, which is brewing alcohol.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Brewing alcohol and brewing alcohol, depending on which kind of alcohol, beer or chartreuse. That's it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Did you notice that when you're at the Moulin Rouge, boobs just, there were so many boobs everywhere that they just totally lost all context and meaning?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah, until the 50s. And in some cases, even decades after that, there were a lot of buildings in Paris who had doors, sometimes forgotten doors in their cellars or basements that led directly to the catacombs or the underground tunnels in Paris. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
So it was kind of easy to get down there for a very long time. It's actually really recent that it's now very hard to get into the off-limits parts. But as we'll see, that doesn't actually deter anybody.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Can't you just see them in like adjoining tunnels but not knowing that the other one's there?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
No, actually, to tell you the truth, I was going to translate the dollar that you could make off of a cow in our Tragedy of the Commons episode. Euros and stuff like that, but we never got around to it. That's funny. I can also tell you it's 0.8 pounds to the dollar today as well. But $1.60 Australian dollars to the dollar.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
But I'll bet even 12-year-old Chuck was like yawning by the end of it, right? Because there's just so many boobs everywhere that they're just, it doesn't mean anything anymore. The catacombs are the Moulin Rouge of human bones, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Is it 20 now? I thought it was like 10 last time we were there. I think it's 20. Am I just wrong? It was 20 back then? Like last year?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
How long does the tour take, Josh? You went through it. An hour. I don't remember it taking an hour more or less. It's weird because when you're in the catacombs, you're out of time. Like there is no light whatsoever reaching you. The only light in there is electric. And apparently that's only been around since the 70s. Before that, they gave you a candle and said good luck.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
But the light that is in there is almost – it makes it even eerier because it's sodium light. So it's got a – kind of an orangish-yellowish cast to it. Oh, yeah. It's just a weird place to be. So I believe that it's an hour, but I have no recollection of how long it took.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah. Yes, there is. Okay. Like 500 steps or something like that. So, yeah, you go down like a spiral staircase and there's multiple stairs.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
It does. I don't remember it, but I looked up a picture and a little bit on that. The guy who carved that was an inmate at this prison for years and redid it from memory, carved into the stone.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
And he actually died there from a landslide or a rock in or something like that. I can't remember what it's called. While he was building some steps to get to it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
He dedicated his life to that thing. That's very sad. Yeah. Yeah, but appropriate for the catacombs, if you think about it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah, I also saw that she helped Theseus get out of the labyrinth by leaving a thread for him to follow back after he slew the Minotaur.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
I don't remember it either. Okay. It's supposedly on the ceiling. I think it's just a black line.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
I don't. It's weird. Like I have pictures of it and I remember the thing with Mila. But like a lot of these pictures that I went and looked at online, I'm like, I don't remember seeing that at all. I don't think I was drunk. I'm pretty sure I was fairly sober. I think I just my my episodic memory is shut. Holy heck.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
I do. I guess they made more of an impression on me than I remembered. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
So, OK, that might that may be why I don't remember some of these.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
I guess I'm just hey, man, I'm just grasping at straws here. Help me out.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
That was one of the coolest things about that movie, that backstory that the crazy, amazing, rich hotel slid into the ocean and now that's where they lived and there were old chandeliers kind of hanging out. I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah. Super cool.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
I did not look that one up, but there are... Let me give you a couple other ones. There was a group called the Mexican de la Perforation. Let's just say it like that. They overtook one of the caves beneath the Palais de Chalot and set up a movie theater there with a bar and room for 20 people to watch a movie, and I did not find what movie they showed.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah, I saw that was a subgroup of UX called the Untergunter. And they were the ones that actually did the clock. UX is almost like an umbrella group.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Right, exactly. And then UX also is like an acronym for urban explorer, too, which these people also are. So they kind of almost made a play on slang, which is really something. Oh, okay.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah, they played Chopin's Funeral March. And I was like, I'm not familiar with that one. It's Darth Vader's theme.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
It's Darth Vader's. It's not possible that John Williams just coincidentally came up with that as Darth Vader's theme. Yeah, it's like an adaptation of the funeral march.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
It's got to be. I've never heard that before, though. And I know everything there is about Star Wars. Just try me. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Human bones. Yeah. That'd be the right answer. Choice A. What would be the other choices?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
That's right. And I say we take another break and we'll come back and find out. Do people find their way in if they want to? After this, let's do it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Okay. How long does that take? I don't know, but it's changed since we were there. Hours. I remember it taking hours. It used to actually test IQ and now it just tests like retention.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah. It is a special detachment of the gendarmes that their whole thing is catching people down in the tunnels. And from what I read, that if you're a true cataphile, and I guess there was an article in, I think, 2015 or something like that, that estimated there's around 100 genuine cataphiles, the cataflicks are probably going to leave you alone.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
At the very least, just maybe give you a warning or something like that. If you're a tourist in the sense of like the Fight Club support group tourist, then you're probably going to get that 60 euro fine because you really, as far as the cataflicks are concerned, you have no business being down there. It's dangerous. You got no respect for tradition like the actual cataphiles do.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
And something else I read, Chuck, you're actually trespassing on private property. Because if you buy a piece of real estate in Paris, your ownership extends to whatever's below it in the underground. Wow. That sounds kind of cool until your house caves in and the city's like, it's your property, top to bottom. So good luck with that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
And they actually at City Hall make that sound when you come in to ask them for help.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
No, no, no. And it kind of does kind of give you a sense that it's not considered like the crime of the century in Paris. But at the same time, there's a special police detachment to catch people doing that. So there's almost mixed messages with that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Chat is C-H-A-T, that's cat. Oh, nice. Andiers is flaps, I guess.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah. One of the most famous uses of the Paris Underground came in The Phantom of the Opera. And I'm not sure if it was in the original novel, although it probably was. But I certainly know that in the stage play or the musical, that's where the Phantom lives. But more the point, there's supposedly like an underground lake there that the Phantom like rose his gondola on, right? Yeah. Cool.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
There actually is an underground reservoir under the Paris Opera House. It's not an urban legend that Gaston Theroux made up. Wow. Or Andrew Lloyd Webber, one of the two. When they were building the opera house to keep the foundation from just filling up with water over and over again while they were building it, they built a reservoir to impound the water in.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
And so it's like 12 feet deep by almost, I think, like 60 yards, 60 meters long. Hey. Little reservoir that you could conceivably sail a gondola on if you were the kind of person to live underground.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
I don't know. Give me a break, man. Okay. Well, what about the evaporation? Right. But I mean, so it definitely has to be constantly replaced because they had to build this reservoir to hold the water that was always trickling in. But yeah, it makes sense. Why wouldn't it overflow once in a while?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Pretty cool. I was looking at screenshots of that. It's pretty neat. Did you play that one?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Are they like jump scares or do they just create like a sense of ongoing dread?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Alan Wake too, everybody. Like Alan Wake, like somebody's name? Yeah. The second or the sequel? The sequel. Okay. It would be Alan Wake Jr., I think, probably. I guess so. Don't call me Jr. Henry Ford II was not a junior. Yeah, because who wants to be called junior? I don't know. I'd go with JR if I was a junior. Oh, totally. Call me JR. What does it stand for? It stands for junior.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
It would be fun. I have one more story about the catacombs.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
What's cool is because of that 18-minute exposure time, any of the photographs of workers working in the catacombs are actually dummies as stand-ins. Oh, that makes sense. It makes it even a little creepier, too, if you ask me.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
So when we went, I've only been once, and it was a few years back, but we went with my brother-in-law and sister-in-law and our niece, the very famous Mila, who's been in a bunch of movies. She played young Mary in the movie Mary that came out on Netflix this past Christmas. Did you know that?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
I have one more thing for you about dummies in underground places. There's an awesome, one of the great, I'm sure I've talked about before, one of the greatest tourist attractions I've ever been to in my life was in Budapest. There's something called the Hospital in the Rock.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
And I think it was maybe World War II, maybe Cold War, but it was a hospital that they dug out of a cave system on like a stone hill in Budapest. And it's a hospital. It's got like that white, creepy subway tile. Like there's gurneys everywhere still. And it was like just this emergency hospital in case the town ever got bombed or whatever. And they have dummies everywhere, mannequins.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
And that just just chefs kisses it for me. Like it makes it so scary, even though they're not trying to make it scary. It just really is. I think if you have dummies in your tourist attraction, you've just taken it to another level. Like put dummies in your tourist attraction. Don't just leave it for people to use their dumb imaginations.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Like give them some dummies dressed up and it'll really make it. You'll be rolling in the dough after that, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
But if you ever go to Budapest, you have to go to the hospital in The Rock. It's amazing.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
I think I asked you if she did or not, and I don't know if she did.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
It definitely seems like it would have been up her alley, though, for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah, apparently in 2017, some thieves stole over a quarter of a million dollars worth of wine that was cooling in a cave. I guess belonged to some winery.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah, you don't want to do that. I mean, just not just for the illegality. That's really disrespectful.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah. You can put a little emphasis on the T at the end there. Aspert? I think so. Maybe that's a little too much, but somewhere in between those two.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Well, they do that a lot. That's how they get you. Exactly.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Well, we were off. So I didn't get a chance to. But it's definitely worth watching. It's like a pretty religious movie. I mean, it's about Mary, the mother of Jesus. Oh, Mary Mary. Yeah, yeah, that Mary. You're like, oh, Mary Mary, sure. And it is fascinating. Like, actually, my brother-in-law also was a producer on it, too. And they it has like action. It has like it's a thriller.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Hey everybody, it's Chuck and Josh here to talk to you about Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easy to build the website of your dreams and do whatever you like with it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
It was not at all creepy. It's not presented to be creepy either. It's just, it is what it is.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
You got anything else about the catacombs? Nope. It's on the list. Yep. You should go. You'll enjoy it. And don't forget the hospital and the rock, too.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Since Chuck said right, of course, that means it's time for a listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Gene, Gene, the Dancing Machine. Oh, yeah. Can you believe we didn't mention Gene, Gene, the Dancing Machine in the entire episode?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
I think both of us thought that we had because Livia clearly included him in the article as mentioned. I think we just passed over him and didn't talk about him, which is just sad.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah, thanks a lot, Mike. I mean, criticism from Caesar. That's pretty awesome.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Well, if you want to be like Mike and just completely devastate us in something we said and just show how utterly wrong we were, we'd love to hear that stuff, especially if you're an historian, semi-pro or otherwise. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
It has like a really evil villain played by Anthony Hopkins. Like it's just a really good movie that you'll watch from beginning to end and be like, this is pretty good.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Well, anyway, back to my story. So little Mila, she must have been five-ish at the time.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
She went to the cat that comes with us, right? So she's walking around this ossuary with bones and human skulls everywhere. And Yumi or I asked her, like, are you scared right now? And she said, I would be. Now they're like boobs. Right. She said, I would be if these were real. We just looked at each other out of the corners of our eyes and we're like, well, let's look over here now. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
It was very adorable. What's funny is, the irony of the whole thing, is this is the same kid at about the same age who was scared to death on the movie ride at Disney Hollywood Studios, but is standing there in an ossuary of millions of bones, human bones and skulls, and is like, meh.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
So those are all my stories about the catacombs. I figure we should probably start talking about it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Right, right. But you have no idea who's who. Like one bone doesn't belong to another bone. No idea whose skull is who. It's crazy.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah, something like 32 square kilometers of tunnels, which to put in American terms is like a lot of bananas.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Ten times the size of Central Park apparently is underneath Paris. Yeah. I think it's 300 kilometers of tunnels. Isn't that just nuts? Yeah. It's a lot. But I mean, if you think about it, if you mine an area, a small, relatively small area for a couple thousand years, you're going to make some headway eventually. And that's what they did. The key is this, Chuck.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Originally, these quarries were sensibly well outside of the city of Paris.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
But we're talking about a very, very tiny original city of Paris that eventually grew and grew and grew. And over time, Paris overtook these old quarries that in most cases were no longer used or mined any longer. So the city built itself over abandoned mines that people had just plum forgotten about.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah, and when it's time to collect that money, Squarespace offers an easier way to collect payments so you can focus on growing your business. You can invoice clients and get paid for your services, turn leads into clients with proposals, estimates, and contracts, and simplify your workflow and manage your service business on one platform. What else could you possibly ask for?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Oh, yes, please. The Inspection Générale des Carrières.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
So carrières is French for careers. And another word for career is a path or tunnel. So this was the commission overseeing mines and mine shafts in Paris.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah, and like you said, there was a body problem. I think you kind of touched on it a second ago where there was a general sense of disease coming from these putrefying bodies that were just piling up in the cemeteries. But structurally speaking also, so like I guess at the time in France, they would bury you with a bunch of other people who died at the same time in a group pit.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
let you decompose. After five years, they would bury you up and then they would just deposit your bones in an ossuary. They were like, here's a bunch of bones. Let's move on to the next group of people and bury them for five years.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
So many people's bones built up over the years that neighborhoods built near this, their cellars would collapse in and bones would just come out because of the pressure put on these huge piles of bones that were building up. So there was a huge problem with it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
But I also read that that was a bit of like a cover story, that they were really interested, the government of Paris was interested in reclaiming some really great real estate now. And so they did this, whether people liked it or not, and they actually went into these cemeteries and moved the bones under the cover of night.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
I think so. Oh, man. Thank you for gently correcting me.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
I sound like a six-year-old kid trying to pronounce it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah. So just to be clear, when they moved the bones from the graveyard to these abandoned mine shafts, they would just go up to a hole in the ground and dump bones into the mine shaft. And they would just pile up where they fell at the bottom of the mine shaft. That's how they were transferred.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
And like you said, finally, one of the inspectors, a quarry inspector named Louis-Étienne-Héricard de Toury. Pretty sure I said that right. Nice. He said, like you said, let's have some fun. So he got busy with his quarry men stacking bones into these now famous configurations of tibias and fibias and finger bones and thigh bones and neck bones and then head bones finally.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
All of them with their eye sockets facing out. They built walls throughout these whole catacombs that had been designated an ossuary Or in French, an ossuary.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Isn't that what it is in that old dry bone song? Isn't that what they call it?
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
And then everybody just stops singing and goes home. Yeah, yeah. The skull.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Yeah, you're right. I was going to say et, but there'd be an extra T-E, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
The Catacombs of Paris
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. And we are going deep underneath the city of Paris, city of lights, city too busy to sleep because it eats big apples. In this episode of Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Yeah, and there's this example of like, okay, one person that you're connected to the brain of is saying, like, I'm thinking of a red apple. And the other person with the other connected brain is like, yep, I can see the red apple that you're thinking of. But again, to that person, red is what the other person would think of as blue.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's not here. We are. And we're pretty sure that both of us are here, but it's possible just me is here. And this is Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
And you can't possibly know that that person is thinking of what would be actually a blue apple and calling it red. But the thing is, you can. You can just be like, OK, person number two, now you think of a red apple and we'll see what person number one thinks of it if it matches their conception. It'd be really easy to find that out if you ask me.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Yeah, I mean, we should say here, like, all of this does require brain implants, and I just don't feel like there's anybody trustworthy to put an implant in your brain right now.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
There's also this concept of a philosophical zombie, right? They're called pea zombies.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
And it kind of ties in with what I was saying, like we can't ever say that somebody else is thinking or emoting because we can conceive of something that looks like a human, acts like a human, has all the same thought processes of a human, maybe even has emotions and all that stuff, but they're missing what it means to be a human, which is the experience of experiencing something, right? So...
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Like that person can eat an apple and taste what an apple tastes like, but they will never feel what it feels like to taste an apple that's like really delicious. You know what I'm saying? And so people came up with the idea of a pea zombie, a philosophical zombie, to try to investigate like what it is that makes humans humans. And that's kind of what they came up with.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Yeah. Or a person, too, you know, like it's just. And again, like I think you kind of nailed it on the head, like all this seems like navel gazing, but there is like some utility to it.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
And that one is actually like kind of a step down from metaphysical. They're like, we're not saying that nothing else in the universe exists but your mind. But we're saying like you and I were just talking about with P-zombies and AI, like we can't prove that anybody else has those thoughts and feelings besides the thinker.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Yeah, it does. But I saw that it really gets tricky with research because that base methodological solipsism says you don't need to mess with data or other people's research. Just what do you think about the subject? And that doesn't really hold water for like a research paper because, yeah, I mean, that's a good place to start. You can't just dive in or you I guess you can.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
But it's also like, what are your conceptions about this? And let's start from there and then go figure out if that's correct. This is just sticking with the what do you think about this and write the research paper. So it's not a really good idea, frankly. And then also, Chuck, there's just a straight up bad idea. Ethical solipsism, also called POS solipsism.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
No. And I think ultimately at the end, he's like, but for us to for the person, the individual to lead a fuller life, you kind of do need people here or there. So you don't want to just completely screw over everybody for yourself. But that's the basis of what's called ethical solipsism, that you have no moral obligation to anyone except yourself.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
And then the other thing that really stuck out to me, Chuck, was that you have no moral obligation to anybody but yourself right now. So you don't even have to look out for your future self. All you need to care about is your present self. And that's why I called it POS solipsism.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Yeah, and this is where we kind of get into the modern updated versions of Descartes' evil demon, right? Like what's keeping you in the brain in a vat? What's running that simulation for you? There's also the simulation hypothesis, which came from Nick Bostrom, which I did do a whole episode on End of the World on because it just fascinates me.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
But a lot of people confuse it with a brain in a vat, but it's different because in the simulation hypothesis, which is that if civilization becomes advanced, like say we're their ancestors, they're our descendants, they just keep getting more and more technologically advanced, that they can invent simulations that are indistinguishable from reality
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Yeah, that's one example of what it could be. But there's a couple of things about this. One, as annoying as it is, because if you're arguing for solipsism, and I don't want to say you're a solopsist because there's basically nobody out there who's an actual solopsist. Like you can just keep saying like, but yeah, how do you know? But yeah, how do you know?
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
and they run a bunch of simulations over and over again, like say they sell copies of this simulation game, so 100 million simulations are ever created over the course of history, then mathematically speaking, since we can't distinguish between reality and a simulation, it's much likelier that you and I exist in a simulation rather than the actual one version of reality that the simulations are based on.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Right. And the thing that people get mixed up with the brain in a vat is that the brain in the vat, in reality, your brain in a vat. In the simulation, in reality, your reality is simulated. But to you, it's reality. There's nothing different. There's no other reality that you could wake up to. That's just reality. It's essentially like a techno version of creationism, essentially.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Like if you replace... whoever came up with the code for the simulation with God, it's essentially saying the same thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Yeah. And like to sweeten the pot, Nozick was like, like you will have nothing but pleasure for the rest of your life. All you all the pleasure you want. You will never be able to distinguish it from what life was like before. You won't remember that there was a life before. Like it will be amazing.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
And something like 74 to 80 percent of people who are posed this thought experiment say like, nah, I don't want to do that. Even though life is suffering in a lot of ways and sucks and can be boring and is definitely not 100% pleasure all the time, most people still want to be engaged in reality. And that's, again, like it's not just a cool thought experiment.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
They use that to argue against the idea that humans are at bottom just nothing but hedonistic creatures who seek out nothing but to increase their pleasure. Nozick really kind of demolished that with that thought experiment.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Do you want to take our second break and come back and talk about our favorite part of this, criticisms?
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
There doesn't seem to be any more reducted argument in all of philosophy. All other philosophy can essentially be argued against by solipsism. And the reason why is because the basis of solipsism is, is that there is no reality. It's just you. You hearing this, I don't exist. Chuck doesn't exist. This podcast doesn't exist. Nothing exists except for your mind.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Right. Exactly. Yeah. And so if you're a philosopher, you're like Samuel Johnson doesn't get it. And if you're not a philosopher, you're like Samuel Johnson gets it. Like philosophers are very famously maybe overly engaged in perfectly crafted, totally airtight arguments. And the idea of just kicking a rock and being like, see, it's real. doesn't really hold water with them.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
But for everybody else, it's like, yeah, this, it kind of gets to what Wittgenstein, is that how you would say it in German? Yeah. Ludwig Wittgenstein. I'm going to say his name again at least one more time because it's fun. He was a philosopher of the 20th century.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
He basically was like, man, philosophy, this is not a quote, I'm paraphrasing, has some real hang-ups with having to just... The fact that solipsism is actually... It exists and people feel the need to argue against it sometimes says all you need to know about how uptight philosophers are about philosophy. And essentially...
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
We just need to take some things as fact, as granted, or else all we're doing is spinning our wheels. But if you say like, OK, I believe that the world is material, that it exists apart from human consciousness, that if there were no humans around and nothing, no life to experience it, everything would still be the same. Like, let's just take that as fact.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
And that's the basis of everything that you think is real. And none of us are actually doing anything that you're not projecting out of your mind. That's solipsism. And it sounds mind blowing. But like I said, it's also annoying. And it's also extremely simple, so much so that it can deceive you into thinking that it means more than it does. It doesn't. It's as basic as that.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
if that's what you believe, and just move on from there. You need to have some sort of foundation that you can say, this is real, this exists, and then you build off of that. And if you don't, then you're just shooting yourself in the foot, essentially, was what Ludwig Wittgenstein was saying.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Well, I still like Wittgenstein, so I'm going to stay with it.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Oh, I had it backwards. So I thought that Stein was like the anglicized version of it and Steen was the German version.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Right. This guy's argument to me is the one that makes the most sense, just refuting solipsism, which is like, yes, you have internal feelings and thoughts. Like the experience of feeling sad is not the whole of sadness, that there's other stuff. And all the rest of it essentially comes from interacting and learning from the external world.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
And so the whole idea of solipsism is based on a faulty premise that the entire world could possibly just be in your head because how are you going to learn from something that's not actually there in the first place? I like Stephen P. Thornton. He's my new favorite philosopher. There was one other guy, too, we have to bring into the conversation.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Bertrand Russell, he's a very famous philosopher and mathematician, I believe. And his whole thing was like, if we might be like, what was it, Zhuangzi, him saying like, how can I tell if I'm a man dreaming of a wildebeest or a wildebeest dreaming of being a man? And Bertrand Russell was like, if that were true, dreams are just weird and freaky and anything goes. Like waking life is not like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
So if waking life were a dream, there would be measurable ways that it veers off of like physics or whatever. And we would notice that. And these days it's called a glitch in the matrix. You would notice glitches in the matrix. And there's actually a really cool Reddit subreddit called glitch in the matrix. And it's people's like stories about just how, just weird.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
weird, inexplicable, strange, small things that they've noticed here, there in life, they'll post them. And every once in a while, there'll be like a picture or two. This is kind of fun to go through.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
But again, as annoying as it is, it is in some ways a useful argument, because if you really want to make a philosopher rigorous in their argument, have them take on solipsism or some form of it.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
One that I saw a couple of times is something like seeing somebody like go out a door and then like 30 seconds later, they come in a totally opposite door that they physically couldn't have possibly gotten through. So how do you explain that? Just stuff like that. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Like how in the actual movie, The Matrix, things would literally glitch like you kind of tell all of a sudden they were like ones and zeros. This is kind of like that, but it's like the program itself is lazy or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Yeah, for sure. There's a psychologist named Clara S. Humpston who kind of explains how somebody with schizophrenia might actually retreat to a solipsistic state as a way to kind of exercise control over a world that they feel like they have zero control over.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
That like if you're like, nope, all of this is just in my mind and it's not real, then in a weird sense, even though as lonely and horrifying as that thought actually is, like you can feel like you can control those things then too. And that actually kind of ties into yet another argument or criticism of solipsism. If all of this is just in your mind, all of reality, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
How do you explain the fact that you have no idea what's coming in the future or that you can be surprised or startled? Like none of that makes sense either. So I don't remember 30 seconds on how those two things tied together, but if I rewind, I'm sure I would find out that they did.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Yes. So, yeah, I mean, that's pretty much solipsism. I don't think we're going to do a part two eventually. I think we've kind of put it to bed, which feels good, Chuck. And since Chuck doesn't have anything else, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
I got nothing else either. So then that means, of course, that it brings up listener mail. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Man, that's awesome. That was a great email, Jan. Yeah, I think we should take Jan up on that finally, Chuck. I want to go to Germany.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Okay, let's do it then. It is settled. And that was from Jan, J-A-N? Yeah. I'm glad you said that because for my whole life I've been saying, well, first I said Jan, and I grew up and I thought Jan. I did not know it was Jan.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Well, also, the other part of it, too, is if you are a genuine philosopher and you genuinely believe that nothing was real except in your mind, there is zero point for you to do anything like write a philosophy paper for solipsism. Because nobody's out there to read it in actuality. So what's the point?
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
But anybody's name pronounced Jan reminds me of a quote. Have you ever seen Johnny Suede, the Brad Pitt movie? I never saw that. Yeah, but there was a classic line in it where he's at dinner at like his date's house and the date's dad says, you know, John, if we were in Sweden, your name would be Jan Suede. And he says, no, sir, it'd be John. Johnny Swain. Always has been, always will be.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Yeah, you have to imagine Brad Pitt blankly saying this, but with a huge pompadour. It's pretty great. Not bad. Well, I think that's it. Again, thanks, Yun. And we'll see everybody, including Yun, in Germany eventually. We'll figure it out.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
And in the meantime, if anybody out there from Germany or otherwise wants to get in touch with us, you can send us an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
You're by yourself in the entire universe, so much so that the universe doesn't even exist outside of your mind. You're by yourself in some incomprehensible form of existence. It's just weird and depressing in a lot of ways.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Yeah, the skeptic said, you ever had a dream, Dingus? Yeah. How are you going to trust your senses with that? And so skepticism, like you said, is kind of an extension of it, a basis of it. It's not quite there, but enough that solipsism is often thought of as an extreme form of skepticism. Sometimes it's also called global skepticism, like you're skeptical of everything.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
And then it's also sometimes called mondo-skepto. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Yeah. And all of this again, yes, it does seem kind of bong-ish, uh, or bong adjacent for sure. But, um, This is the kind of stuff that philosophers care about. It's called epistemology. Epistemology? I like to add a lot of syllables sometimes, so I'm not quite sure which one. But it's the basis of how we know what we know, how we gain knowledge.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
And the point of this, of all this stuff, as people were kind of building on it, is to say, like, we need to kind of figure out how we do know, because if you really stop and think about it, we're not quite sure exactly how we know anything. And that whole thing was picked up in the 17th century by Descartes. And his very famous quote, I think, therefore I am, came out of this, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Yeah. So that evil demon thing, too, it's like, as we'll see, it's been updated in much more modern form. But Descartes was the first one to really kind of say it's possible, especially we should say Descartes believed in God, that the extension of that, I think, therefore I am, is also that anything I can just intuitively know about. is real, like God is real.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
So he believed that there definitely was God. So he was arguing like, okay, if we believe in God, then we have to entertain the possibility that it's not just, you know, our minds that are projecting this, but that we're being deluded, that we're like an entire universe is being created for us by this evil demon. This is his 17th century application of it.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
But it's like like I said, it kind of formed these or it's been updated in modern forms. And that really kind of that's where it gets super tough because it's like, OK, yeah, it's ridiculous that you're you're the only person who exists and all the rest of us don't exist. Or even more creepy, this is where it gets it to me, okay?
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Like when you start to try to argue against solipsism, one of the ways that you're going to go is that other people have experiences and thoughts and emotions too. So that totally discounts the idea that you're the only entity, you're the only self in the entire universe, and that all of this is just in your mind.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
But then you have to ask, like, well, wait a minute, how do you know other people have experiences and thoughts and feelings like you do? There's no way for you to know that. And there's actually no way for them to get that across to you in any provable way. And then you just kind of go like, oh, it's a little scary. At least I do. It's the kind of thing that keeps me up at night. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Yeah. One of the other things, too, just to kind of get this into perspective is like you can't even say that you have a brain because everything you know about a brain, you've you've basically you're not born with the concept of a brain. You learn that from the external world. And if the external world doesn't exist, then maybe brains don't exist.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
Like maybe you just don't even can't even conceive of who you are. And that's the ultimate problem. You just you can just keep reducing it like you can't prove how you know what you know. And I feel like that's really kind of set us up for a break.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
So one of the things I kind of talked about earlier before the break, Chuck, was that as far as philosophy goes, like if you're trying to actually apply this to philosophical arguments or maybe like real world kind of stuff, is that it has to do with other minds and the fact that we can't ever fully understand what other people are thinking.
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
And then as relates to solipsism, we can't really understand. prove that other people are thinking. And there's actually some, not just philosophers, but neuroscientists who've kind of investigated this because it is an interesting question. Like, it's that same kind of question. Like, how do I know that we both experience the same color green in the exact same way?
Stuff You Should Know
Solipsism: This Is All In My Mind?
And that what you call green, I actually think is As blue, like I experience it as what you would experience blue, but I call it green because I think that's what you're talking about, too.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
That is not true. There's plenty of places for jokes here.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Do you remember we did one on comas and we had jokes? So come on, we can do this.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Yeah. And we should say that most of this migration and most of the migrants are going to be coming from or going moving within what's called the global south.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
And you don't use the equator as the dividing line for the global south. For example, Australia and New Zealand squarely in the southern hemisphere, but they're not considered global south. It's a distinction between the developed and the developing world. So you have Latin America, Africa, India is usually included, China is included, and Southeast Asia.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
So we're talking climate migration, and it's a really interesting topic. This was your idea, actually. And I tip my hat to you. Thank you. And I'm just joking. I'm not wearing a hat. See, another joke. So...
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
And these countries, ironically, if you accept China and India, most of these countries have put out the least amount of emissions that triggered climate change. And yet they're the most vulnerable to climate change in large part because they're developing. And if you're a developing country, you're probably still really reliant on agriculture.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
You're reliant on things like timber and other natural resources. And those are the things that are getting impacted first, right off the bat. And so if your economy is based on agriculture and there's a drought that covers your entire nation, your economy is in big trouble and your people are probably going to have to move.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Yeah, there's a lot of examples of modern slavery, forced labor in the UAE and other countries, very wealthy Gulf states. And that is a good example of climate migrants, but really any kind of migrant being taken advantage of. And it's something that definitely has to be paid attention to. On the other hand, there are studies that say, OK, this actually might be good.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Like, yes, we need to make sure that the receiving countries are not exploiting the climate migrants or any migrants. But the pressure that could be relieved from their home country if they're moving to more developed or wealthier countries that are more set up with infrastructure and social structure to absorb them. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
The thing that surprised me, so climate migration, we should just tell people off the bat, is where people have to move somewhere else because extreme weather, droughts, basically anything, extreme temperatures, anything that has to do with climate change ruining where they live. That's climate migration.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
That actually could be a plus because all of a sudden the population is not swollen in an urban center where it's really hot and you're around people from an ethnic group that your ethnic group has hated for a thousand years. Like moving some of these people out to other countries could actually be a relief valve that could keep social upheaval from happening.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Yeah. Like, why not add the sun? You can be fleeing the sun. Yeah. And we'll consider you a refugee from now on.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Right. You just go down in your basement, right, and turn tasty. I do. Yeah. So, yes, there are, like, I guess – there's structure, there's like global structure that can be applied to climate migrants and climate refugees. It's just that's not necessarily happening right now. But it wouldn't take much, I think, is what we're saying, right? To just kind of expand the existing definitions.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
That's really surprising. Did you follow up with Jewel of the Nile? No.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Yeah. The sun can do that. Yeah. So one of the things that a lot of these nations that are going to be most affected are saying is like, hey, we appreciate you guys thinking about this, but we don't really want to move.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
So is there like a version of this where we can stay and you wealthy countries who kind of got us into this mess in the first place can maybe help fund some of the mitigation efforts that we're trying to put in place? And so far, the wealthy countries are like, well, I can't hear you. The connection's breaking up. But that may change as we get a little further down the road. Who knows?
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
But there are some governments that are like kind of starting to plan because they're like, this is not 2050 for us. This is like 2030 that we're having to worry about. And in some places, it's already started happening, like Kiribati. is a Pacific Island nation. It's 32 nations, about 130,000 people. And at best, it's just about at sea level.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
No, we did a whole episode on plant migration that was due to climate too. So this is, yes, that was a good catch. This is human specific. And one of the things that struck me about this is there's not a lot of like solid agreement on exactly how bad things are going to be and exactly how far people are going to have to move.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
And when sea level is rising, Kiribati is going under the sea. And apparently sea level is rising about four times faster than other parts of the world.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
For sure. So their government was like, OK, we have to figure out how to move people and we have to figure out how to do it right. And they started looking at Fiji, right?
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
I could see Mau Mau, um, basically running on this platform because I'm guessing 130,000 people in a 32 island spread is Kiribati. Um, like I'm guessing moving the entire country to Fiji is probably top of the mind of the voters there. So I'm guessing that Mau Mau or Mau Mau, um, ran on a platform against moving and was like, no, we're going to figure out how to stay here.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
We're going to build seawalls. We're going to cross our fingers. We're going to use fairy dust. Who knows what they were running on, but they won because people don't want to move if they don't have to. If there's a chance of them staying where they lived, where their families have lived, they want to stay typically. That's what people who study climate migrants are finding.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Well, they tried to. They created a new visa specifically for residents of places like Kiribati who are like, we need to get out now. And New Zealand very kindly was like, you guys can come live here. We're going to make it as easy as possible on you. And the people of Kiribati just gave them crickets back.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
In New Zealand, within six months, like cancel the program because they had basically no takers. They did not need the special visa because people, again, don't want to move if there's any chance of them not having to move.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
You know, I totally get it as well, for sure. And I mean, if you if you put yourself in that mindset, it suddenly is like, OK, I kind of get why people keep moving back after their house burns down from a wildfire or gets blown away by a hurricane or gets picked up by a tornado. That's where you live. And it just hasn't
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
I feel like it just hasn't gotten quite frequent enough for people, at least let's say in the United States, it's my frame of reference, to just be like, okay, this is not going to change. It's going to keep getting worse. We need to leave.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
And even among the people who do agree, the experts who do generally agree on some stuff, they're still like, I don't know that this is going to be as bad as it's being portrayed, like, say, in the media.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
What's nuts, though, is if you go to Miami today, their skyline is covered with construction cranes. They cannot build skyscrapers for housing fast enough because so many people are still moving to Miami. And I say we take a break and come back and talk about what's going to happen to cities in the U.S. as far as climate migration is concerned.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
OK, Chuck, so I name checked Miami before the break, and that is a really good example of a city that is kind of up in the air for how much climate migration is going to affect it. Is it going to get so bad down there that they're just going to have to abandon Miami? And it'll look like a reverse The Day After Tomorrow, but with heat and seawater rather than everything being frozen.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Which, by the way, I saw that the other day. For the first time? No. It's actually one of my favorite movies, it turns out, because every single time it's on, I will just sit there and watch it.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Yeah. I hesitate to use the word good because it's great. But it's, yeah, I just like it. It's one of those really, it's like Zodiac. I can watch Zodiac anytime it comes on. Like I might not search it out, but I'll just sit there and watch it if it's, you know, presented to me somehow.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Okay. But I just wanted to put a lid on the hysteria because, like you said, we just don't know yet. And it might not be as bad as we think. There might be some pluses. There are definitely going to be some minuses. But it's something that we're talking about now. And it's decades enough into the future that we have time to prepare for it.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Yeah, for sure. But the day after tomorrow, it's like that for me.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Yeah, that's actually what triggered that idea. Oh, okay. That was you and me just talking about something that only you and I know about.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
That's not the ones. Well, there's Mount St. Helens. That was a big deal.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Right. So that two to three million number, those are people who move permanently, right? That's not just people who like leave and then come back.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
It's kind of like we went from, okay, let's stop emitting greenhouse gases to, okay, it's too late for that. Now we have to figure out how to deal with the repercussions of that. That's where we're at, but we have a little bit of time.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
And if we start thinking about and talking about how to do this smartly and responsibly without, again, becoming hysterical and over-planning and overdoing it, we could do this right and make it as comfortable as possible.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Well, not Dawn. It says on the label, Egg Safe Cleaner.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Thanks a lot, Meg. That was a top-notch email. We appreciate it. And thank you for saving everybody who was about to wash their eggs with dish soap under my suggestion. If you want to be like Megan, get in touch with us and be like, oh, no, no, no. Here's what you really should do. We love those kind of emails. You can send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Yeah. And it's going to definitely get more poppy for sure as we go. Yeah. But as it stands right now, especially say like you can take California for an example. They deal with wildfires like that's just a fact of life and it's getting to be a much more frequent fact of life. So if you leave your house.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
because there's a wildfire in your backyard, you are technically a climate migrant right then. But if you go back and rebuild or your house didn't end up burning down, you're basically following the current pattern of climate migration. You're leaving long enough for you to take yourself out of harm's way during the disaster, the extreme weather event, and then going back.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
But if you do that enough times, some people are going to just get tired of that and they're eventually not going to go back. And that's kind of like how climate migration, at least say in the United States right now, is starting to look or starting to establish itself.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Yeah. And even more so, like if you're a migrant, even within your own country, like you said, say like to an urban center or something like that, a lot of times when you show up, you might show up with all of your neighbors, your entire community, maybe your entire region if the, say like the drought is bad enough.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
And the city's not like, hey, we just happen to have all this extra free housing for you guys, so come on in. Very frequently, you'll end up in what amounts to a refugee camp. It's a climate refugee camp, but it's essentially the same thing as any other refugee camp. There's usually not running water. There's not good infrastructure.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
And this is a point that I hadn't thought of, but Livia pointed out. you're maybe even more vulnerable to natural disasters now because you live in a tent. So if a sandstorm comes along, you're in trouble because you just are in a tent rather than, say, the house that you had to leave because your farm was no longer producing crops.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Right. Yeah. And there's probably the most famous and most well-studied recent example of climate migration leading to violent conflict was the Syrian civil war. Between 2006 and 2010, there was a really, really bad drought in Syria and the surrounding region. And a lot of people had to move to the city. or cities, and a lot of people were displaced.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
And they joined people who had already arrived as refugees before from Iraq and from Palestine. And so all these people are there. The government is basically ignoring them, pretending like they're not there. Their farms are being lost. They're getting zero help from the government, which has become neoliberal under Bashar al-Assad, who took over from his father.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
And they start, the unrest gets bad enough that a civil war starts. Like there's a rebel insurgency to topple Assad. And it actually ended up working. It didn't at first because Assad famously used chemical weapons on his own people. And he got everything under control. But then they made a second push this past, I think, December. and ran them out of the country and actually took over.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
And you can trace that ultimately back to that drought that was created largely by climate change. And that's nuts. Like if you think about it, if that drought had never happened, there wouldn't have been a Syrian civil war. And that's probably the most extreme version, example of a climate crisis leading to violent armed conflict. But it's not like it doesn't exist.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
It's not like it doesn't happen. Like that happened.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there, and this is Stuff You Should Know. Is it getting hot in here, or is it just me edition?
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
It hasn't buckled. Yeah. There are actually some estimates all over the place about how many climate migrants they're going to be. And there was something called the groundswell report that the World Bank put out in twenty twenty one.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
And they are saying by 2050, 216 million people will have moved either to another country or within their own country because climate conditions have made where they used to live untenable. So we're talking 25 years, not even 30 years anymore, Chuck. We're in 2025. If my math holds up, that's just 25 years from now. That is a tremendous amount of migration.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Some people say, nah, it's probably going to be more like 50 million. But it seems like that World Bank analysis is the most commonly cited, although you could also suggest it's the most commonly cited because it's such an eye-popping number.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Yeah, for sure. So the World Bank broke it down that sub-Saharan Africa is going to see by far the most. 86 million, followed by East Asia and the Pacific at 49 million. South Asia, 40 million. North Africa, 19 million.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Although some people are like, it's going to be even more than that for North America and parts of the Middle East because it's going to get so hot that it will be uninhabitable by humans.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
That's right. Yes, North Africa and the Middle East, not North America and the Middle East.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
You know what, though? I think we should introduce a new device in year 17. Whenever I misspeak, just cut me off in the middle by doing your egg color spot sign.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
You ready? Yeah. So it's going to get so hot in the Middle East and North America that what did I say wrong, Chuck?
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How Climate Migration Works
I think we've come up with something new that we really need to do.
Stuff You Should Know
How Climate Migration Works
Yeah, they really do keep them cool. Frankly, cold.
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How Climate Migration Works
Yeah, we can take a break. I think you should take us out on your egg splat sound again.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
All right. I was going to skip that one, too, or suggest we do. Great. And if you did it, I was just going to not talk. I was going to skip it either way.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Is it on Criterion Channel?
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah, I was going to say that's all over the place for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
So I guess if you've seen Ford vs. Ferrari, you're familiar with this story?
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Okay. So I'm going to tell this story then because I haven't seen that movie, so this was new to me.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Okay, so in the 60s, Henry Ford II, who was the successor president of the Ford Motor Company, and I guess probably a relative of Henry Ford's, he decided that he wanted Ford to get into racing just to basically, like, make Ford, just to expand the brand, basically. Rather than just giant land yachts, we also make really fast cars, too. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
He also was like, you know, I know that there's probably easier ways to get into racing than to build race cars. And that is let's just buy Ferrari. Like they were already known around the world for building cars that were just fast as all get out.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Right. And Ford was not very happy about this, right? Of course not. So out of spite and to get back at Ferrari, and I think also to get into racing too, Ford decided to build their own race car, which came out to be the Ford GT40. And I went and looked it up. I'm not a car dude, but I am like, this is an amazing car.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
And in fact, it actually did best Ferrari at Le Mans in 1966. And you can buy that car, at the very least the original body, that won Le Mans in 1966 for a cool $675,000 from what looks like a private owner in Jacksonville, Florida.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Jacksonville. It's beautiful.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah, because they just drive around and around and around for 24 hours to see who can go the furthest, right? Yeah, I think it's pretty cool. It's an endurance race.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Right. And every once in a while it starts to get boring. They just push pedestrians out in there and see what happens. Exactly. So there's a little more to this story, a little separate spoke that Ferrari had going on at about the same time or a couple of years earlier. Our friends at Mental Floss pointed out that Lamborghini actually was founded out of spite to Ferrari.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Let's see what happens. So, you know, the the old saying cut off your nose to spite your face.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah. He said, stick to making tractors, Lamborghini. Who's ever heard of Lamborghini?
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Right. So Lamborghini was like, well, I'm just going to go make my own car. And in 1963, I believe, he started making Lamborghinis with the help of five workers who had recently been fired from Ferrari. That's how he established his car company. And had Enzo Ferrari not rebuffed him, we would never have that classic Garfield poster from the 80s where he's standing next to a Countach.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Gorgeous. Those Magnum Ferraris you can get for a song these days. I mean, they don't work very well. Like how much? I don't know. I'm going to guess anywhere between $10,000 and $50,000.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
It is. And they're so small, too. Like, I'm not sure either one of us could fit in one of those cars.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah, I think that was a stunt double half his size.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
I'm not familiar with that one.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah. For grocery shopping. Exactly. How many have we done for this thing? We just did one, right?
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Okay. All right. Let's get going. Because it turns out that there was a road in China made out of spite.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
No. As a matter of fact, it was all new to me. But that doesn't mean we didn't do it already.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Right. Sure. Did you see pictures of this, though?
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah, like it wasn't even a roundabout. It's just that the road widened and kind of curved in a bulge on the sides around this house, literally in the middle of a highway. Even worse, even more reckless if you ask me, they kept electricity going to this house. So there's an electrical pole in the middle of the highway too, totally unmarked. It doesn't look real. No, it doesn't.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
So just want to put out there that this actually has nothing to do with that phrase. And I'll explain why that phrase doesn't actually have anything to do with this. Oh, really? But I guess I should probably say that we're starting this episode out in like the worst possible way with a really downer of a story that may or may not have to do with spite. So I say we just go ahead and start that now.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
It does not at all, does it? And if you want to see what we're talking about, The Atlantic has a good photo spread called The House in the Middle of the Street from 2012. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
No, they definitely didn't. So I've looked into this a little further. It was a five-story house that they had just built for $95,000 when the provincial government said, you need to move because we're building a highway through here. And they weren't the only ones who had kind of tried to stick it out. So they were also aware that they could not leave their house.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
They had to stay in their house 24 hours a day because if they left, the government would come and bulldoze their house while they were gone and be like, T.S., what are you going to do? And they had no choice, but just holding out was kind of a protest and to draw attention to this generally unfair practice.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Because, I mean, any government can exercise eminent domain, but typically you want to give at least market value. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
It's nuts because they were on like their porch, like a second floor balcony. And they're looking down and you're looking down, not at a front yard, you're looking down at the road. Like it went right around this house.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah. So that was a spiteful road.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah. So the story went that in the late 19th century, I think December 17th, 1898, this bridge between Bonn and Buell, which was supposed to be a joint construction project between the two, ended up being paid for entirely by Bonn because Buell was like, we'll use the bridge, but we're not going to pay for it. You go ahead and pay for it.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
And so under wraps until this unveiling of the bridge was that little statue of a little man carved into the bridge with his butt sticking out, basically mooning Buell.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Can you imagine just the hilarity of seeing that?
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
When it was unveiled? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah, and you can believe that any time you had out-of-town guests visit, you had to take them to go see the little bridge man.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
So, yeah, they ended up what was supposed to be a joke at the expense of Buell ended up to be an actual expense for the city of Bonn because they had to pay this fee to get onto the bridge. But supposedly they're friendly rivals still, or they were. Now I think they're one town, kind of like Budapest. There's Buda and Pest, and it's separated by the river, but it's still one city now. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
That's how I understand it. So you can still see the little bridge man, but he's not the original. The original was almost destroyed in the Second World War. The bridge was at least, but they were able to get their hands on the statue and get them out of the Rhine. They put them back on the rebuilt bridge, but then some local youths in 1960 destroyed that.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
So now there's a recreation of it on the bridge. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah. Little punks at least. Yeah. So that was a little bridge man made out of spite.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Want to learn about a terrorist or don't call a pterodactyl? How to take a perfect poop and all about fractals? Genghis Khan. Attila the Hun. The Lizzie Borden murders and the cannibal runs. Don't explain everything to your brain.
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10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Hey, everybody. It's Chuck and Josh here to talk to you about Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easy to build the website of your dreams and do whatever you like with it.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah, and actually the way that this neighborhood was arranged is a cul-de-sac, but in the center of the cul-de-sac was Bill Ansell's house. So with his light display, it was just kind of like driving through a holiday light display because you just drive past and go all the way around and come back on the other side and leave. It's kind of perfect, actually. It was perfect.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
And Bill Ansell definitely thought it was perfect. But like you said, the neighbors were like, man, come on, this is... 100,000 watts of Christmas joy, it's too much. So can we do something about this? Bill Ansell apparently was not the type to take criticism well. Sounds like it. I think he actually was required to take down the holiday display.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yes. I think they cited him for an out-of-season decoration or something like that, right? So he took it down, but in short order, he put up a new display and specifically designed it so that the neighbors regretted ever asking him to take down the original joyous display. And he did this, Chuck, out of spite.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
There was also a warning, a sign that said Ross Township, don't touch any of this property. If you do, there will be bloodshed.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah. No, it totally is. And there was another one. I read an interview with 2020 with the neighbors who were like, this guy actually wrote a sign. I didn't see what he said, but he came up with the disparaging sign for the deceased wife of Tom White, one of the neighbors. The day after she died, he put up some sign disparaging her. Yeah. This guy was definitely off the chain with this thing.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
And I mean, like he would stay up at night and hit metal with sledgehammers to make noise. He had floodlights pointed directly in the neighbor's houses. And I mean, living like that's bad enough, but they said something that stuck out to me that I hadn't thought of. That's like, this is a living nightmare.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
When you have a neighbor like that and you sell your house, anytime you have a showing, they're going to turn around before they even get out of their car. That's like you're trapped. They were totally trapped there. And despite the township fining him, despite court orders, like you said, he kept it up year round and he kept it up for years.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yes. I thought that there was definitely a parallel between those guys, too.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Sure. And if your neighbors come to you with a complaint about some special thing that's special to you, rather than going off the handle, maybe say, well, let's figure out a compromise because this is really important to me.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Sure. And if they're like, no, we insist you take it down, then you do something out of spite. At least give them a fighting chance.
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10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Spite plus. We want to thank not just our friends at 2020, but our friends at Mental Floss, too, for pointing that one out to us.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
So I think we got a couple more, right?
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah, and it was a very lucrative contract. A lot of people were playing like the world's smallest violin for Prince at the time.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
But not to spite our faces, to spite the Vikings. No.
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10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
20 years later, re-signed with the same company.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
I got you. Okay. Did not realize that. But this was like a $100 million contract. It was worth $215 million today. It was a big, fat contract.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
The thing is, is Prince, I saw like when he died, when they went and do his audio archives, they're like he could release an album like every month for the next 50 years or something like that. He had that much stuff recorded.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
And he wanted to release music really fast. quickly and with high turnover. And Warner Brothers is like, no, you're going to flood the market. You're going to shoot yourself in the foot. You can only release X number of albums every, say, 12 months. So like one a year maybe or something like that. He didn't like that.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
And then apparently Warner Brothers owned the rights to his songs too, which I'm quite sure he really, really didn't like. So to get out of his contract, he thought, well, okay, the contract is between Prince and Warner Brothers. I'm going to change my name and maybe the contract won't be valid any longer. I'm not sure how much he actually believed that because Prince wasn't a dumb person at all.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
But at the very least, he was trying to humiliate Warner Brothers, make life harder for them. And he did all this, as you said, out of spite.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah, one of the things that Warner Brothers, too, had to do, Chuck, was they had to send out digital files to the media. And this is the 90s because there was no way to, there was no, like, combination of keys on the keyboard to make this symbol. So they had to send a digital image of the symbol for the, like, newspapers or magazines or whatever to insert into their articles about Prince.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
It is horrific. Yeah. No, I'm not saying like this is a laugh riot or anything like that. I'm just saying.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
And then finally, the media was just like, we're just going to call him the artist formerly known as Prince. And Prince was like, damn.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
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Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
He just showed up there like, how did I get here?
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Anyway, back to the horrific story. Saint Aby said, and she wasn't a saint at the time, but this certainly helped her case later on. She said, come nuns, let's go sit around and talk. I have something to say to you. To prevent ourselves from losing our chastity, from being raped by these Vikings, we're going to cut off our own noses.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah, we were going to do the same thing. And that's actually what we were going to scalp. We were going to go. And I don't remember why we didn't. But that's kind of par for the course for me because I did that with Prince. I did that with Pink Floyd. I did that with Stevie Ray Vaughan. And I did that with the Grateful Dead. I was just like, I'll see him next time.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yumi saw him for some tour, I think Musicology tour, and she was like hands down the best show I've ever seen.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Apparently he was quite the dancer.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah, he was cool. He was one of those guys that you appreciate the older you get. You know what I mean?
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Great. Let's move on to the pink house, Chuck, the last of the last.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
No, that's a little pink house. This is just the pink house.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Just a desolate marshland.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
And it's just looking at it, it's very eerie, especially now it's abandoned. It's kind of ramshackle and run down. But it was built on Plum Island, and it's considered one of the all-time great examples of a spite house. And a spite house is basically any house, wall, structure that's built to get under someone else's skin, right? So sometimes it's built to block their view.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
We talked about Henry Clay Frick building a mansion that was bigger than Andrew Carnegie's that would be considered a spite house. And in America, they go back at least until 1806. That was the earliest one I could find. Yeah. But this one on Plum Island off the coast of Newburyport, Massachusetts, which, by the way, is one of the more charming towns in the entire country.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Oh, I've never been there. Oh, it's wonderful. That's where this pink house is. And there's a great backstory to it that makes it a spite house.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yep, he did. So he built it on Plum Island. At the time, there was no one else living there. No fresh water, no electricity. It was just the worst place you could build a house. And he said, there you go. There's your spite house. And he walked away rubbing the dust off of his hands. What do you call that?
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
I'm going to cut off my lip and maybe I'll inspire you to do the same. And the rest of the sisters said, yes, let's do that. And they did. And there's actually old like wood cuttings. And there's at least one stained glass panel of this happening. And it's gory. Even as a wood cutting, it's gory.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah, we need to come up with a name for that, right?
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
So, yeah, that's how it ended. And the story went that she lived there for a while and sold it. And it actually was inhabited, weirdly enough, by a succession of people up until 2011. Wow.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
In that sense, yes, it did. But it's just, I mean, like the sea off of Massachusetts can be fairly unforgiving. So, you know, this is an old house from the 1920s. It's going to probably be kind of drafty depending on the time of year.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yes, but you would have to paint it pink or else everybody in Newburyport would hate you.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
And it was made out of spite. Or was it, Chuck?
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Right. Which is a much less interesting story. So we're just going to go with spite house for that one. Agreed. All right. Well, that's it for things done out of spite. We hope you enjoyed it. And since I said we hope you enjoyed it, it's time for Listener Mail.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Tree Marchink from South Carolina. Thanks a lot. That's a good one. And I remember we talked a little bit about Zimbabwe's hyperinflation. Oh, yeah. People were like showing up with actual wheelbarrows of cash because it was just going nuts.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Great, great example. Yeah, we've got to do that episode.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
For sure. Well, if you want to be like Tree and fill us in on something we've said we want to know about, we'd love that kind of thing. You can send us an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
And when the Vikings showed up, they found these nuns missing their noses, bleeding, missing their lips, just in quite a state. And they were like, we're just going to move on to the next monastery and see what we find there. The nuns, however, their lives were not spared, were they? No.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah. But there's a different way of looking at this, and that is that these nuns protected their chastity, which, as you said, is like really, really important. They're known as the brides of Christ. Yeah. And that's one of the reasons why they're chaste, why they're meant to die virgins, is because they have given themselves to Christ or to God.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
So as long as they're chaste and they die chaste, then they have fulfilled this covenant. Even if it's not by their own will or decision that they lose their virginity, if they lose it through force, it's still not quite the same as dying chaste. So they manage to come out on top, religiously speaking. So that's that story.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Oh, the reason why it doesn't have anything to do with cutting your nose off to spite your face is because that phrase means that you're doing something in revenge to somebody else or to harm somebody else, but you're actually harming yourself much worse than you are them.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Right. So that's a heck of a way to kick off what was supposed to be a semi lighthearted top 10 list.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
It's kind of like there's another saying that hating somebody is like drinking poison and expecting them to die.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
It's a good one. It really gets the point across. It makes you not want to hate or steal something about someone else.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Thanks a lot. I just made it up. Look at you dropping nugs.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah, anytime like Carnegie's companies, I can't remember which steel company he owned, but anytime there was like some misstep or bad decision or business went awry, Frick would send a note like chiding him or taunting him for having made a terrible decision. Like just constantly kept it up. There was, I think Carnegie built a mansion in New York.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
And Frick was like, oh, yeah, I'm going to build an even bigger one right down the street just to show you up, like would not let it go.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah. His other thing that he was said to have said was not until he admits that I'm the Mary and you're the Rhoda. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Like the original where she worked at the TV station?
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
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Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Those shows used to like just be written so well too and acted too.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
I can't remember. There's one episode where... I think Ted.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
He was doing, he was doing something and it was so ridiculous and preposterous, but he was playing it straight so well that the rest of the cast just started cracking up and like they couldn't not, they did it in every take and it ended up kind of in the show. It's some classic, like well-known episode, but check that one out. Make sure you, you see that one too.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Valerie Bertinelli? No. Valerie.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
All right. I'll check it out.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Well, thanks for the recommendation.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Yeah. He said, sure, I invaded Kuwait, but that doesn't mean you have to come over here and liberate Kuwait. And George Bush said, yes, we do. And as a result, after this war, Saddam Hussein was still in power. And he apparently was willing to use his power in all sorts of weird ways. In tacky ways, frankly.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
And one of the ways he did that was he had a mosaic mural, an unflattering mosaic mural of George Bush laid into the floor of the entrance of the Al Rashid Hotel, one of the nicest hotels in Baghdad, if not the nicest. And the whole reason was it also said Bush is criminal on it, too. And the reason was that anyone coming into this well-traveled hotel would walk right over George Bush's face.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Right. Or taken out back and shot one of the two.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
I did. It is an unflattering portrait, but you can totally tell who it is.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
I don't think so. From what I saw, it looked just like a picture. I didn't see a close-up of it. I just saw a soldier standing next to it. Yeah, I couldn't find one either. Like the head was out of proportion with the body.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Right. The sledgehammers had don't mess with Texas engraved on them.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
No more lines, no more hassles, just affordable, fast care. Thanks to Amazon Pharmacy and Amazon One Medical, healthcare just got less painful. Learn more at health.amazon.com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and this is Stuff You Should Know. And this episode, Chuck just made fun of, even though I took pride in helping to assemble it.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
But yeah, I mean, that's spiteful, right? To make a mosaic portrait of one of your sworn enemies so that your people walk all over him.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
All right. So we have a definitive example of spite.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Well, then I think that means we should take a break while we're ahead.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Want to learn about a pterosaur and call a pterodactyl? How to take a perfect poop and all about fractals? Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, the Lizzie Borden murders and the cannibal runs. Don't explain everything till your brain explodes. It's Chuck and Josh and stuff you should know.
Stuff You Should Know
10ish Instances of People Doing Things Out Of Spite
Okay, Chuck, I guess we should, at this point, decide which one we're not going to do if we're doing 3-3-3-3.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
It would be terrible. A snoot full of that.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
And we did the math. Fred Goebbels was 60 in 1944, which would make him roughly 800 years old today.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Yeah, and the town paper wasn't helping things either. On Thursday's paper, there was another headline, another six columns of eight columns. Mad anesthetist strikes again with an exclamation point this time. So they're just pulling out all the stops.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Yes. So after only a couple of newspaper reports, the course of a few days, the town of Mattoon is really high strung. The police commissioner, the guy in charge of all of the police for Mattoon, was quoted in the paper as saying that he wouldn't walk across his own backyard at night for $10,000. Yeah. That's the guy in charge.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
So they also issued a PSA to citizens which said, hey, if you're going to shoot somebody looking through your window, take care because there's these vigilantes out wandering around looking through your window. So we don't want you guys shooting one another.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
No, and they weren't set up for crime. The Mattoon Police Department wasn't. Certainly not for a spiking crime. So politically, the police force was in disarray. You had Thomas Wright, the guy who wouldn't walk through his own backyard, the police commissioner. Ostensibly, he's in charge, he's calling the shots. But they also had a police chief, his name was C.E.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Cole, and he seems to have been totally comfortable undermining Thomas Wright's authority at every turn. And to make matters worse, the police force was split down the middle with some loyal to Thomas Wright and some loyal to Chief Cole, and that's not a good thing when you only have ten people on your police force.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Right. So the understaffed, resource-strapped Mattoon Police Department took to ignoring and covering up crimes that it didn't have the resources to investigate.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Yeah. It's not the best way to run a police force. And then even worse, the vigilantes from the Anti-Theft Association, they figured out that if they hung around City Hall and one of the cops peeled off, they were going to a call. So the Anti-Theft Association would tear off after them, ostensibly with bluegrass music playing them on.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
And eventually the police department was like, we're going to arrest you if you keep following us to calls to shoot whoever's there.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
So tonight we're going to talk to you guys about a little town you may or may not have heard of. It's called Mattoon, Illinois. Has anyone ever heard of Mattoon? A few of you? Is anyone from Mattoon? Any Toonies out there? Really? Okay. Try not to be mad at us. Because the show starts like this. Mattoon is in kind of a triangle between Chicago to the north, St.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Yeah. And so Mattoon's small police force ended up being supplemented eventually with some state patrol officers. The police force ended up being doubled. And even better, the state patrol officers brought two-way radios with them, which the Mattoon Police Department was very happy about.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
So now they didn't have to just hang around City Hall all the time, and they could coordinate out in the field. It was like a whole new day, basically. They were like, we're like real cops now. Yeah. I feel like this is going pretty well. You guys too? Yeah, okay. Okay, well then that means we have to put a message break in right about here in case we release this as the episode, okay?
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
That's right. So if you'll bear with us, we'll be right back.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Learning stuff with Joshua and Charles Stuff you should know
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Louis to the south, Indianapolis to whatever's over here, and it's just far enough away from all of them to not really get any of their reflective interestingness. I'm sorry. But there are two things that Mattoon lays claim to. One, it calls itself the bagel capital of the world, because in 1985, Lenders Bagels opened a factory there, and that is it.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
I could see somebody reading the paper and being like, yeah, probably. Sounds about right. So they also figured that the mad gasser was probably a well-trained chemist. They assumed that either he was creating known paralyzing or noxious chemicals like chloroform, Chloropicrin, which is also known as vomit gas. Or he had created his own paralytic agent that he had designed himself.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
And there actually was a case of that. This is the one woman whose first name we could not find, Mrs. Fitzpatrick. We're sorry, Mrs. Fitzpatrick. And she was at one of the movie theaters watching a movie when she smelled something and shouted that she'd been gassed and caused a stampede of the other 400 people out of the movie theater.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
So she was taken to the hospital and examined and she was found not to have been gassed and she was sedated forever. Yeah. Can you imagine being in a theater? I've been gassed. You pull a Costanza, you're just crawling over little kids. Hey, maybe your husband's full of beans. That's a good callback.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
And Chief Cole was quoted as saying, whatever. Yeah. So that day, Friday, September 8th, the Journal Gazette finally took off the gloves and wrote an editorial, a scathing one, that just raked Chief Cole across the coals, as it were. That was unintentional. I'm sorry for that. Four stars.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
And it's from that editorial that we found out that the Mattoon Police Department liked to cover up crimes that it couldn't investigate. So they definitely put it on the chief for not taking this seriously from the outset.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
It's just our secret. Oh, okay.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
And word began to spread about this. So first it started being published in the Chicago papers, the St. Louis papers, and then it literally started to spread around the world, and the press just descended on the town. And the story actually made its way around the world, and the Mattoon Journal-Gazette ran a story. This is confusing, but bear with me.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
They ran a story about the story being read about by Mattoon residents fighting World War II as far away as Papua New Guinea. And the soldier fighting in Papua New Guinea was quoted as saying, what the heck and heck is going on back there?
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Number two, Mattoon is world renowned for having been terrorized by a mad gasser who went from house to house spraying residents with a noxious paralytic gas while they were tucked safely away in their homes. Yeah. Right? Either that or the town of Mattoon went through one of the best documented cases of mass delusion that has ever happened.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
So on Sunday, September 10th, this thing's been going on for about 10 days, roughly. Chief Cole announced that he had an idea, a new policy. If you called in a Mad Gasser call, if you called the Mattoon Police Department and said, I've been attacked by the Mad Gasser, the cops would come, they would show up, and they would give you a choice.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
You could either go to the hospital with them and get examined to see if you have been gassed, or you could refuse to go to the hospital and spend a night in jail. This is the choice that you were given if you called the police for help, right?
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
And it's even worse than it sounds on its face Back then if you wanted to see if somebody had been exposed to a chemical you had to sample the stomach contents their stomach contents So either you chose a night in jail or take taking the hospital have a tube jam down your throat and some poor nurse like priming it Just to get it going Come on. It just goes on like that until it ends badly.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
It'd just be projectile vomit right back in the person with the tube down their throat space. Stop saying that word. A circle of life, basically.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
And not today's sexy high heels. These are 1944 steel-toe work high heels, basically. Old brown shoe factory high heels. They were definitely brown, for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
So what happened after that? So as the calls started to drop off, the state patrol, they went home. They took their two-way radios with them. Oh, man. The Mattoon cops were like, no. It was so sweet for a couple of weeks. And the Journal Gazette, too, it started to kind of clam up on the whole thing. It printed fewer and fewer articles about it.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
And it's not like the Journal Gazette was actually hurting for column space at the time. We read a lot of the Journal Gazette from this era, just to kind of get the story straight. And one of the articles we found on page one around this time was a report that the local bus company had examined a proposed extension to one of their lines the previous week, and they plan to do it again next week.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
And the world's actually divided on what went down in Mattoon in 1944, and we're going to dive into that here tonight.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
That's not a joke. No, you stink. You stink. That was how they wrapped up the editorial. And then after that, the Journal Gazette, the town's voice, just pretty much clammed up on the matter. And in the end, how many attacks were there, Chuck?
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Okay. And so the town just kind of moved on, shaken, weirded out.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
No, no one died. No one was injured long-term, miraculously. But it had a serious impact on the town. And it continued on. The story continued on. Because shortly after the whole thing ended, a young student, probably 18, 19-year-old, from the University of Illinois named Donald Johnson showed up in town.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
And he was there to document this as a case of mass delusion, which he clearly thought it was. The thing was, the town by this time had been made a butt of international jokes, like Time, Newsweek, people just teeing off on Mattoon, like, you guys really went crazy, and we think that's hilarious, basically.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
So the people who were the victims of the Mad Gasser had learned to just keep quiet about it.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
We'd like to thank Lenders Bagels.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Well, Chief Cole was known for his very cryptic quotes.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Yeah, he came up with a really clever workaround. There was something called the ABC Socioeconomic Scale that had been created for broadcasters, but confusingly, not specifically ABC. It was like ABC, like the alphabet that you sing.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
And it was a socioeconomic scale where you don't go to the people who you're categorizing, you just go learn stuff about them, like by looking at census records and things like that. So Donald Johnson came up with his own And it was like this. It was based on the victim's level of schooling, their age, their sex, and we ran across a really interesting little known fact.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Chuck's full of beans tonight, everybody. I'm full of what? Beans.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
This is the first time in history someone answered, yes, please, when they were asked their sex by a surveyor. And then their occupation and income.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
It means you're like, I'm full of it.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
That would make me uncomfortable. Really? Yeah. I'd be like, do your f***ing job. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I know that there's children here, and I'm sorry. Oh, no.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
And she does not look happy with me. I'm sorry, dear. Just waving hi. How old are you? Ten. Ten?
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Yeah, so they had labels like laborer, except farm.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
But the good thing for Donald Johnson was in Mattoon, if you didn't work on a farm, you worked in a factory or you worked on the railroad. That was it. The big challenge was age. because you couldn't really tell from their occupation whether they were like eight or... Right. So he relied on what he wrote in the paper, acquaintances of the victims.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
That's how he found out their level of schooling and their age. And what we gleaned from that is he asked the cops who investigated it, because the Mattoon Police Department was very, very cooperative with Donald Johnson in his paper.
Stuff You Should Know
LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
Yes. And so he took all this, mixed it all together, shook it up in a bag, a little fairy dust, a little pixie dust. Don't forget salt and pepper. He threw a moist pink rag in. mashed it all together, and he came up with four, not A, B, C, A, B, C, D. He was a bit of a show-off.
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LIVE: Minneapolis - The Madd Gasser of Mattoon
And he found that all of the victims fell within B, C, or D. There were no As, and they were almost all C or D. And when you kind of pull everything out of that, it means that they were almost all women, 93%, and most of them were between the ages of 20 and 29. And compared to the population of the town as a whole, the victims of the Mad Gasser
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They were more likely to be females in their 20s with below average education and below average income, which is exactly, back in the day, the kind of person you thought would be very suggestible to something like mass hysteria.
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like getting stomach contents in your face and then projectile vomiting back in the person's stomach. Yeah, you remember. Yeah, that thing. But he got published, right? He got published, everybody.
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Remember, this is an 18, 19-year-old kid who showed up to town to document a case of mass delusion, and it was published in the January 1945 issue of the Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology, a very well-respected peer-reviewed journal. Little Donald Johnson got his paper published. Little Donald Johnson.
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Yeah, and when it was published, the whole thing, the entire case of the Mad Gasser, Mattoon, became irrevocably a case of mass hysteria. That's what science said. It was mass hysteria, and as time went on, and Johnson's paper became cited, it became a circle of sorts... LAUGHTER And it became a textbook case of mass hysteria. Nice job.
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Oh, wait, there's one more line I forgot. Oh, wait. But decades on, it's far from clear whether it was a case of mass hysteria. And that explains what Chuck's about to say. Okay.
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Okay, so we're going to give both cases, we're going to lay both cases out. The case for mass hysteria and the case against mass hysteria, meaning that there was an actual mad gasser. And we're going to start with the case for mass hysteria. And there were a lot of factors present in Mattoon in September of 1944 that could help support the idea that this was just a case of mass hysteria.
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Not the least of which, a lot of the men in town were off fighting the war. And so the people in town had cause to feel anxiety and worry about their loved ones every hour of every day during this time.
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Yeah, exactly. You can also make a pretty good case that the Journal Gazette played a prominent role in this whole thing. Because remember the very first headline said that there was an anesthetic prowler on the loose. just said it. And whether the anesthetic prowler was real or not, now the concept at least was real, was in reality.
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And then also the idea of saying that Aileen and Dorothy were the first victims makes it sound like that there's going to be more, what with the anesthetic prowler being on the loose and all.
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You get negative four stars for that. Wow. Okay. Okay, friend.
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And that is a decidedly weird thing to happen. Yeah. And then the gas itself provided evidence in that it provided no evidence whatsoever. No chemical was ever isolated from the pink cloth. In a lot of cases, the gas dissipated so quickly, somebody running in to help didn't detect it at all.
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And don't forget, there was at least one case where somebody was affected by the gas, but somebody else in the same room was not. That's unusual behavior for a noxious gas. Yeah.
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So as Donald Johnson put it in his paper, which, again, he said this was all just a case of mass hysteria, he said, the facts seemed to evaporate as rapidly as the agent that produced them. He was a real bastard. No one like Donald Johnson, if you haven't picked up on that. He was like... Yeah. Real self-satisfied. And he looked around.
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So the thing about this is... though, yes, you can make a pretty good case that it was just mass hysteria. There's a lot of good circumstantial evidence. But you can look at that same evidence in different ways, and no matter how you present the whole thing, there's still some stuff left on the table to be explained.
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And so here we present the case against mass hysteria, the concept, the idea that there actually was a mad gasser.
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Thanks. I've been doing it for a while.
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Yeah, but that doesn't mean there wasn't anything on it. If the thing sat around for three days, it's possible it just totally evaporated. For sure. And then cheap coal's policy, yes, it did bring an abrupt end to the whole thing. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it was because the Mad Gasser was just totally made up.
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It can also just have been like a huge widespread loss of faith in the police. And in fact, there were 232 calls to the police of any kind in September of 1944, the month that the town of Mattoon was supposedly in the grips of a textbook case of mass hysteria. And that was well below the average of 300. So it's possible people just stopped calling the cops no matter what was happening to them.
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Yeah, we couldn't get to the bottom of whether it was named after the owner or they just made brown shoes.
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Yeah, and then let's talk about Donald Johnson's paper, shall we? It turns out he cherry-picked data like a mofo. He essentially excluded all of the men, almost all the men. He excluded all the children victims and just focused almost exclusively on the women victims, which sets things up pretty nice when you're trying to prove a case of female mass hysteria.
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that makeshift ABC socioeconomic scale. It was inspired, true, but it would not pass peer review today because it's egregiously fabricating data. And the fact that he concluded the entire event was psychogenic is pretty rich because he couldn't get a single victim to submit to a psychological panel or test or question.
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So he's kind of full of it, I'd say.
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Curious piece of data. Curious. So we probably should have said this at the outset. This is an unsolved mystery. We're not going to solve it here tonight. Sorry for that. If you were expecting that, sorry. No one knows who the Matt Gasser of Mattoon was, seriously. But there was a guy, is a guy, named Scott Maruna.
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who was a high school chemistry professor, and he grew up in Charleston, about 12 miles away from Mattoon. And he decided to go to Mattoon a few years back and talk to some of the locals, and he put together a book about the subject, The Mad Gasser of Mattoon. Yeah, dispelling the hysteria. Very nice, everybody. And he interviewed a bunch of residents who lived through the whole thing.
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It's amazing to have 2,000 people scream colon at you. Yeah. Totally uncoached, unprompted. Yeah. Never felt so much power. Sorry, go ahead. You were overwhelmed by the colon? I really was. It's full of beans. Is that three? Okay, perfect. Yes, please clap, as Jeb Bush said. So Maruna doesn't think it was hysteria at all, does he?
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Oh, yeah. Yeah. Now it's going to be released. That did it right there.
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Yes. So Scott Maruna found from talking to the locals that people considered Farley Llewellyn strange. John Miller, the guy from the Journal Gazette who wrote about all this stuff, he later said that Farley Llewellyn had been picked up once as a peeping Tom. He was known to drink ruinously, and he was thought to have been gay in a time and a town where you just weren't that. Yeah.
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There's one other thing you need to know about Mattoon in 1944. A significant portion of its young men had left town and were off fighting World War II at the time. So it was an anxious place to be back then. And this whole thing that we're going to talk about tonight, the Mad Gasser of Mattoon,
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So he was kind of considered a weird outsider, essentially, by the town.
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Yes. And Scott Marino actually even names the gas that he thinks it is, nitromethane. And it actually checks pretty much all the boxes for the symptoms that were reported by victims of the Mad Gasser. Nitromethane produces limb weakness, cough, drowsiness, headache, nausea, sore throat, vomiting. Do not take nitromethane if you're pregnant or planning to become pregnant.
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Do not take nitromethane if you're allergic to nitromethane. And it also accounts for the sickeningly sweet smell because nitromethane is described as unpleasant, comma, fruity.
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So there's a couple of things wrong with Farley Llewellyn being the mad gasser. The first one is he seems to have been the mad scientist that Thomas Wright was quoted as saying the police had zeroed in on. And tangentially to that,
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We know that the mad scientist the police were watching was under 24-hour surveillance and that during that time, other mad gasser attacks had happened, which makes it hard for it to have been Farley Llewellyn. But Scott Maruna has an answer for this.
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He says that the first three attacks were Farley and that after not being able to blow any of his neighbors up, he just gave up. He was a bit of a quitter, apparently. LAUGHTER
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It all started, depending on how you look at it, on the night of Friday, September 1st, at the home of Mr. and Mrs. Burt Kearney. And that is how they described women back then. They didn't use their first names because what else do you need to know? She's married to Burt. She took his last name. Who cares about anything else? Well, we care.
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And that later texts either were actual cases of mass hysteria or suggestibility, or Farley's two older sisters, who were described as short and heavy set, actually carried out more crimes to cover up for their little brother, which is sweet in a psychotic kind of way.
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Or because they kept trying to blow up their neighbors.
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It's possible. But again, we don't know. No one knows, and neither do you now. So there's a lot to read on the Mad Gasser of Metoon, even though it's kind of an obscure case. There's a lot of rabbit holes you can go down.
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And if you really get into it like we did, you can go onto eBay and buy one of Matchbox Toys' Monster in My Pocket series, I think four figures, the Mad Gasser of Metoon, which Chuck bought.
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Uh, and Matchbox Toy, uh, on their evilness scale, gave the Mad Gasser an 80 out of 100. And Matchbox Toy's evilness scale is at least as legitimate as Donald Johnson's ABC socioeconomic scale. That's right. And that is the Mad Gasser of Mattoon. Thank you very much. Thanks, everybody. Thank you.
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So we went to great lengths to find the first names of the women who were attacked. I'm a bit of a quick... Thank you. Chuck has more stamina than me. I'm a bit of a quitter. So I gave up with like three or four left, and he's like, no. And we got it down to one. There's only one woman whose first name we couldn't find in this whole thing.
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Her name was Aileen. Mrs. Kearney's first name was Aileen. And at the time, her sister, Martha Reedy, was staying with her because Martha's husband was off fighting in World War II overseas. And so that's why they let Martha use her first name temporarily while he was away.
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Yeah, her sister ran in the room and was like, what the hell is that smell? And threw the window open and ran next door to Earl Robertson's house. No trouble finding his name. He was the next door neighbor and he ran over to see what was going on. And he went and searched the yard to see if he could find anything and he found absolutely nothing. They called the cops.
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The cops came out and they searched and they didn't find anything either. Yeah. And everything just kind of settled down for about an hour after that.
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That's impressive. And a toothbrush. Did you take a shower on the way? I did.
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Yeah, and that was the end of that. But the story continues. The next day, a guy from the local paper, the Mattoon Journal Gazette, his name was John Miller, he was one of their writers, he was an editor, he kind of did it all.
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He found out about this story and he investigated it, and that night's paper, Saturday's paper, had a huge headline across the front page, took up six of the eight columns on page one. Anesthetic Prowler on the Loose.
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So there's a sub-headline, too. Mrs. Kearney and daughter, first victims. And so keep in mind, this one incident happened. This is the lone incident. As far as anyone knew, nothing else had happened, and yet they were described as the first victims of the anesthetic prowler that's now clearly on the loose. This is what the paper said to everybody the day after the attack.
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Right. And then they weren't just sitting around. Some people came forward. They'd read the story and were like, this happened to me too. There was one woman named Mrs. Olive Brown who had suffered an attack a few months before. And the local softball commissioner, too.
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They were paralyzed for 90 minutes, and they just chalked it up to the hot dogs. You know that thing.
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Yeah. They thought it was that. We've all been there. So there's another family. All these people are coming forward now from this Saturday's article. The family of Patrice Ryder and her kids, they were also ill. They were struck ill. She became kind of lightheaded. She found her kids vomiting. And Shirley said, oh, it must be the hot dogs.
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Yeah. And what happened to her? She described it as like coming into contact with a strong electrical current. By the way, she immediately regretted huffing this strange pink rag.
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She said her knees went wobbly, and then it gets worse. Her lips cracked, her mouth went dry. They started to bleed. She began bleeding from her mouth. And again, she regretted huffing that pink rag basically right off the bat.
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Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Wayne Bryant. Jerry's not here, but all of these lovely people are here at the State Theater in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Wow. Thanks. Not bad for a Thursday. Not bad at all. Thank you guys for that. Feeling good. We'll edit that part out.
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Right. So now it's clear. There's something weird going on. This wasn't just one incident. People are coming forward, and now they're also finding physical evidence of stuff, right? Yeah. So the next night was Wednesday, September 5th, and there were four more attacks. One on Laura Junkin, the owner of the Big Four restaurant. From what we can tell, she was unaffiliated with any man.
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There was another one about an hour later on Mrs. Viola Spangler. And then about an hour after that, 11-year-old Glenda Hendershot was attacked, and she was the daughter of a Mr. Hendershot.
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She was, the little girl. Yeah, she was 11. She smoked cigars.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Yes. And you said earlier that we were going to talk a little bit about James Earl Ray and his criminal career. That's right. So he was born in Illinois, but mostly grew up in Missouri. And he was the oldest of nine kids. And his family was impoverished. His father was a convict himself who didn't work very often.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
His mother was, as James Earl Ray put it, a woman of very limited intelligence, barely able to communicate. And she also drank very heavily. And there is a report card from grade school that said his attitude toward regulations was that he violates all of them. This was him as a kid, and he didn't improve very much as an adult.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
He dropped out of high school at 16, worked for a while, and then he joined the Army.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Yeah. And he was serving a 20-year sentence for robbery in Missouri. He started it in 1960 when he broke out in 1967 and began that year on the lam that culminated in the assassination of MLK.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
I heard that too. Yeah. You would have found me eating loaves of bread too.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Just snapping my fingers with a mouthful of bread. So his criminal history, just because you're a lifetime criminal doesn't mean you're good at it. And James Earl Ray is an excellent example of that. Time magazine described him back in 1977 as a bungling, petty gunman and burglar whose life of crime has mostly been one fizzle after another.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
And they weren't lying because some of his greatest hits that they went on to cite was that at one crime scene, he dropped identification. He dropped his ID.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
One holdup in a neighborhood, he got lost as he was making his getaway, ended up driving back into the neighborhood where he just robbed somebody and was caught by the police who'd arrived on the scene by then.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
And I don't think they meant like matters, like race matters.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Yeah, get a load of this guy.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
So even when he was in London, too, when he was on the run after assassinating MLK, he carried out not one but two bungled robberies. It's crazy. One was a bank, and he managed to only get 100 pounds from a bank.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
The other was a jewelry store where he got nothing because the owner knocked the gun out of his hand and pressed the alarm. So James Earl Ray ran away.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Yeah. He just was not a very good criminal, even though he tried it over and over again. And he was successful. I mean, like he did successfully rob people and break into places and all that. But if you put it all together, he didn't have like a violent criminal rap sheet. He was just kind of this petty criminal.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
That's how he supported himself in life as a criminal who went from that to murdering one of the most important Americans in history in one single action, seemingly overnight. And a lot of people say that just doesn't add up.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Yeah, because, again, how did this petty criminal plan an assassination that he successfully carried out and then also in a panic, like, dropped the murder weapon and ran off in a place where it would be found within a minute or two? Yeah. Where did he get the funding that he would need to support himself for a year on the lam and then to travel abroad to flee after the assassination?
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
These are just a few of the questions people have come up with. And the obvious solution is that he had help in some way, shape or form. But another really big question that I think that a lot of people overlook is why? Why? Like, why did he murder Martin Luther King Jr.? He wasn't known as a fanatic. He was a racist.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
And like we said, he supported George Wallace for his segregationist presidential bid. But he wasn't like a fanatic. And also, like, he didn't have any particularly deep emotions one way or another for MLK. He just was his murderer. And this just does not make a lot of sense.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Yeah. So you mentioned congressional committees that concluded that there was some sort of conspiracy. One of them was House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1978. They said that there was a likelihood of conspiracy in the assassination of Dr. King. But they didn't think Raul was involved or anything like that.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
It was much more pedestrian and mundane, and in my opinion, then much more likely as far as the conspiracy theories go. But they put it on two – prominent but shady St. Louisans. I'm pretty sure that's what you call people from St. Louis. One was a former stockbroker who became a motel owner. His name was John R. Kaufman. The other was a patent lawyer in town named John H. Sutherland.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Both of them were dead by the time the committee hearings were held in 1978. But they supposedly put a bounty on MLK's head. And James Earl Ray, whose brother was a tavern owner in St. Louis at the time, heard about this bounty and decided that he would go ahead and murder MLK and collect on the bounty.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
And I also saw that he probably believed that as a white man, he would never be convicted of murdering a black man in the South. And even if he did, George Wallace was definitely going to win the 1968 election and George Wallace would pardon him. So if you put all that together, it really seems like a pretty legitimate explanation for the whole thing.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
No, because it isn't difficult to say you either did or you did not commit murder.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
I read Martin Luther King's cool response to J. Edgar Hoover calling him the most notorious liar.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Yeah. I say we take a break and we come back and kind of stick with the late 90s because the 90s were a big decade for conspiracy theories and the MLK assassination. How about that?
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
No. No, he said that J. Edgar Hoover must be under tremendous pressure to have said such a thing. Wow. Like he was sympathetic.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Yeah. And so that was, you know, that's crazy, but it's a mock trial on HBO and it's a mock jury. It doesn't mean anything. It just basically promoted William Pepper and his theories. But after that special was aired, conspiracy theories about the MLK assassination got a real boost because a guy named Lloyd Jowers came forward.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
He said he was inspired to come forward by the series and come clean, essentially, after all of these years. And he owned a tavern in Memphis called Jim's Grill, which just happened to be located beneath Bessie Brewer's boarding house, where the fatal shot that killed MLK was fired from.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
And Lloyd Jowers said that he was part of a big, giant conspiracy to murder MLK that included the Memphis police, the FBI, the mafia. himself and some other just tangential players who were all coming together to kill King in order to collect on a bunch of money. Lloyd Jower said that just him alone was offered $100,000 to basically project to manage the contract killings.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Oh, definitely. That'll get everybody's attention.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
They did. And I read two things. I read that Dexter King basically said, like, we did this so that, you know, to prove that the investigation needed to be reopened. And then he also said, regardless of whether it gets reopened or not, this is like the period on the sentence for us. Like this just basically supports everything we've always said. Right.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
The Justice Department, their civil rights division, had simultaneously launched an investigation into Lloyd Jower's claims. I guess they seemed legitimate enough. But also this investigation entailed claims made by a former FBI agent named Donald Wilson. And Wilson said that he had been, I guess he had been, one of the people who had searched through the Mustang that James Earl Ray got away in.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
How many rifles do you guys have just laying around in Memphis that day?
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
And that he had found some papers in this Mustang that had info about the JFK assassination. I think Donald Wilson was like, how can I get people to listen? JFK. He also said that the name Raul was mentioned in it as well in these papers. And so the Justice Department starts looking into it, and they concluded in a report in 2000 that this is all just kind of BS, to paraphrase.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Right, just 100 feet or so away from the murder scene. So, yeah, they couldn't conclusively link that to the gun, but they were able to trace the serial number, and they traced it back to a sporting goods store in Birmingham, Alabama called Aero Marine Supply. And they confirmed that it had been purchased just a few days before MLK was assassinated.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Okay. Because, yeah, you have to be like, that's believable, right? Yeah. When you're buying a gun, you got to have a cover story.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Right. So two weeks after the killing, they figured out that the prints on the gun matched those of a guy named James Earl Ray. And at the time, James Earl Ray had been an escaped convict from a state prison in Missouri for basically a year. He'd been on the run.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
So now we had a suspect and we had photos and they started circulating it around to people who had putatively interacted with James Earl Ray, including the guy at the Aero Marine Supply Store who sold him the gun.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
It seems pretty conclusive that James Earl Ray would have been the shooter, right?
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
So they issued an indictment for his arrest for the murder of Martin Luther King Jr. on May 7th, a couple months after, or no, a month after MLK was murdered. Yeah. And an international manhunt began. I know the FBI was definitely concentrating on the United States, but they didn't rule out the possibility that he had started to go abroad.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
And so they issued it far and wide, a wanted poster with his data and his photos on it.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Yeah, so it seemed like the month before he murdered Martin Luther King Jr., he suddenly got that idea in his head because none of his movements suggested that he had even focused on Martin Luther King at all up to that point. After the assassination, James Earl Ray fled to Toronto. It's eventually where he landed first.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Sorry. I'm sorry, Tarana. I know that, too. I know. Thanks, Chuck. So at the time, apparently, if you were an American criminal in Canada, they were very, very trusting at the time. They basically said, if you swear that you're a Canadian citizen, you give us your name, we'll send you a passport. And that's what crooks would do. They would go to Canada when they were on the run.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
They would look up old newspapers at, like, the library and find birth announcements from about the same time that they were born, finding people who were their age. And they would get their name. They would get their mother's maiden name sometimes. And apparently you didn't even need that.
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The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
You just fill out this form, say your name, say, yes, I swear I'm a Canadian citizen, and mail off for a passport, which would be mailed back to you toot-sweet. And now you had a fraudulent but official and legitimate passport that you could use to travel the world with under a new alias.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
I heard Sneed from somebody once, but I don't know if that was definitive.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Yeah. So, I mean, he went to Lisbon hoping to secure passage to Africa. And while he was there, he's like, I've got a great idea. Surely that people are on my trail, that feds are on my trail now, and they might even know my alias. So I need a new alias. I'm going to go to the Canadian consulate here in Lisbon. I'm going to tell them that they misspelled my name on my passport.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
So he went there and he told the Canadian consulate there that his last name actually is spelled with an A, not a D. And they're like, OK, whatever. Here's your new passport with your last name spelled correctly. And he had a new alias, Ramon George Sneya instead of Sneid. So there was one letter change. And apparently that satisfied James Earl Ray that he had a new alias now.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Not a criminal mastermind. He was no brain from Pinky and the Brain.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
It really is. So James Earl Ray was like, thank you much, and starts booking a flight to Brussels from London. And it was in London, on his way to Brussels, that he finally got nabbed, but not because somebody noticed his mugshot or wanted poster and saw that he was him, but because he had those two Canadian passports, and he had them in the same wallet.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Yes, and the passport checker noticed that he had two passports and asked him about it. And I guess a cop was standing nearby and stepped over and was like, hey, why don't you join us in the back room? We've got some questions for you. And that was it for Ramon George Snade Sneya. Yeah. He was quickly identified as James Earl Ray. He had a .38 caliber pistol tucked in the back of his pants.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Going to board a plane. You could do that back then because they didn't have metal detectors. Yeah. As long as you didn't shoot it off because you were excited during takeoff. Right. In the plane, then they didn't really care. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and this is part two of our two-parter on the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
Okay, so James Earl Ray's been taken into custody and he's flown back to the United States on July 19th to stand trial. And the whole world is watching. They want to know why the man who assassinated Martin Luther King Jr., did that, why he murdered MLK. What was the point? What was the reason?
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
They also wanted to know if he had been working with other people, because from the outset, the public was just openly skeptical that there was some conspiracy that had resulted in MLK's murder. And the world got none of that. Because James Earl Ray pled guilty instead of going to trial.
Stuff You Should Know
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II
And there was a paper reporting on the case who was at this hearing where he pled guilty and said that it brought a shockingly swift ending to the case. And everybody was like, what just happened? And that was essentially that. There was no trial ever and there were no facts presented. So it was just like, yep, I did it. Send me to jail.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
They do. And so these microwaves, I've seen both, Chuck. I've seen that they're constantly beaming transmissions, like basically uninterrupted from the satellites, or that they do it like on a repeating pattern. Regardless, however this information arrives, it contains a few really important pieces of information.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
And one thing we should point out, apparently there's a misunderstanding that a lot of people think when you open up like your location services or whatever on your phone, your GPS antenna ping satellites. That's not the case. It passively listens for GPS, the four GPS satellites broadcasting data. constantly or intermittently, and it picks them up, right?
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
And so the information it gets is the time, and this is a really important component. And we talked before about atomic clocks and just how ridiculously precise they are. And on a GPS satellite, there's multiple atomic clocks that are keeping time together and to make sure that they stay synchronized. And then the satellite sends its own location.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Apparently they figure out their location using celestial landmarks like quasars. So the satellite knows where it is at all times, so it can tell you or your GPS receiver. And then there's a satellite ID that says, I'm me, and that is good enough.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah, he is the guy who started it all. And it's really hard to understate the impact that that guy had on our lives.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
No, but they can also talk to you, too, virtually at the same time, if not at the same time. Because don't forget, you're getting information from four different satellites to figure out where you are. So you don't want to get one from one, wait a couple minutes, get one from the other. You want them all to be coming in basically at the same time.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
And by slightly altering their frequencies, they can all arrive.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Right. So now they have all the basic information. I think this is why you were saying at the outset, this is actually kind of a simple setup, GPS is. If you take it, so if that satellite sends you an information piece of like a signal and it says, I sent this exactly at 1.45 p.m. and it arrives at 1.45 p.m. in one second and
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
and you know that microwaves travel at the speed of light, you can use that information to calculate the distance between you and the satellite, okay? When you know that the satellite is located here in space, and then you figure out your distance from the satellite, you start to have your first piece of information about where you are, because now you know where you are relative to one satellite.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
That's not enough information to tell you where you are on Earth, but it's a really good start.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Right. So once that known point has that discrepancy, it sends that out, that information out to all the GPS receivers in the area. So they can use it to adjust their own GPS readings that they're getting from those satellites that were slightly off, but they didn't have any way to remedy it. Now they do because the known point is like, hey, satellite B is off by like 10 nanoseconds.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
I can't. I have to choke it down. And gross is the wrong word. It's just too harsh.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Oh, no. You're the trilateration expert between us. Let's tell everybody what happened.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Right. Okay. Okay. So I think you should also tell everybody that when you sent me a picture of your three circles with the part where they overlap, they all overlap, you would put a point in there and wrote, bingo, with an exclamation point. You're like, case closed.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
I think you may have discovered something else that we're not aware of yet. Someone will tell us. No, I think you might have just invented a new way of calculating things.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Oh, I wish they would because I don't know either. But like hats off to you because, man, I can't tell you how many circles I guess you probably drew just trying to get this to work. And I don't blame you. I was smart and was like, there's madness there. I'm just going to try to understand this as best I can. I'm not going to try it myself.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
And I was like, OK, I'll draw them perfect. Okay. So, well, let's talk about trilateration. Because in theory, I guess, it's very simple. And the way that Marshall described it was, let's say you're lost. You're in the United States. And you ask somebody where you are. And that person says, you are 625 miles from Boise, Idaho.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
But after you get away, you're chased by the police, but you make it down an alley and hide behind some garbage cans as they pass by, you have a good idea. You go buy a map, and you spread out your map. Maybe you buy a compass as well, a la Chuck, and you draw a circle around Boise, Idaho, using Boise as the center point, that is 625 miles in diameter, or at least represents that by scale, right?
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah. And you're like, OK, I am somewhere on this circle that has a diameter of 625 miles around Boise. Kind of helpful. It's a little bit narrowed it down, but I need more information. So you go find somebody else and you say, hey, do you know where I am?
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Okay, so that's great. At least they didn't repeat the Boise thing, right? Because if they said that, you'd just be like, man, that didn't help at all. But now you know where you are from Minneapolis, and you can do the same thing with Minneapolis. Using that as the center point of a circle, you draw a circle with a radius of 690 miles around Minneapolis.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
I met him a couple of times. He was a good guy. I think some of his first articles, I think the first one might have been like how air conditioning works.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Now you're really close because what you'll find is the circle around Boise and the circle around Minneapolis, they overlap, right? Yeah, you get a little football in the middle. Yeah, like a Venn diagram. And if you look at a Venn diagram where those two circles overlap, there's two points where they intersect. Right? Where they cross each other. Those lines cross each other.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
And because you are 625 miles from Boise and 690 miles from Minneapolis, you are somewhere where those two circles overlap at those two points. One of those is right. The other is off by hundreds of miles. So you still need to narrow it down.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Remember Scooby-Doo? We did an episode on Scooby-Doo based on one of his articles. Was that Marshall? Yeah, totally. Oh, interesting. But yeah, he was a very good guy. And without him, I can tell you, I would not be podcasting. And if I were, it probably wouldn't be a very good podcast because you and I would have never met. Yumi and I would have never met.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah, all three circles will overlap with one another, so they intersect at two different points. Each circle intersects with the other at two points, but all three of them will only intersect at one single point, and you have just trilateralated your position. You know where you are. And Marshall said, this is Denver, by the way. That's where you are is Denver.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Because I think if we hadn't have included that, some people would have been really upset.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
That's right. And now you have to figure out what to do even though you're dead.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
It's like all of the shows we've done in Denver, it's like a wedding, like split down the middle. The people on one half of the room all have guns out. The other half are all playing hacky sack.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Okay, so that's trilateralation. That's 2D trilateralation because what you've done is found your, if you were a flat point and the Earth was flat, which it's not, that's all we would need to do. But the Earth is a sphere, it's round. And so what GPS uses is 3D trilateralation, which rather than flat circles, it uses spheres.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
And when the three or four usually, because you use four satellites, where those spheres all intersect, the one point, that's where you are. Because now you not only know where you are longitudinally, you also know where you are altitudinally.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
I know, and I've been wanting to say trilateralization for so long. Well, you weren't even saying that. I just had to get it off my chest.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
So that's it. That's how you figure. Well, I should say that's how your GPS receiver figures that out. It has it knows where those three or four satellites are because they tell it where they are. It figures out the distance between you and your receiver for each of those four. And it tells it, oh, here's where I am, because here's where all those that information intersects.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
And there's a really pretty image out there. I can't remember what website I found it on. But if you search like how GPS trilateration works. It will come up, I'm sure, but it shows like the four spheres created by the satellites, and they're all in four different primary colors, and it's so pretty. I saw that, yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
I understand that there are three primary colors, but whatever the fourth one is, it's basically a primary color as far as I'm concerned. Okay.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Like the fact that Marshall came along and founded How Stuff Works set my destiny in a lot of ways. So I'm really grateful to him for that.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah, I think so, Chuck. We earned it with that trilateralation. Trilateralation. Explanation. Explanation.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Okay, Chuck. So there's one other thing, kind of like a little sidebar I felt like we should talk about. If you've ever tried to figure out where you are and your phone's like, turn on Wi-Fi and we'll get a better reading.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
So what it's trying to do is it's prompting you to turn on your Wi-Fi-based positioning system. And that is based essentially on the same thing that Dr. Getting was getting at, which is you can use information from different sources in comparing those sources to figuring out where you are. And so rather than using satellite information, this uses the, it bases it on the known strengths
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, he's a transhumanist down with Nick Bostrom and all those guys.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Of different Wi-Fi network towers antenna. And so depending on how strong one signal is compared to where you are, in addition to comparing it to another signal and another signal, another signal, it's like, oh, you're you're in Denver. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
I don't think you're dumb. I know you're not dumb, but let's hear what you have to say.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
So yes, that's one way it does it. And it does it in your house too, but that's because your router is a big blabber mouth and tells everybody where you are. So I just can't afford it.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah. You got a hickory tree? Well, TS for you because GPS isn't going to work.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Thick canopy? Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's a known shade tree. Oh, it's a KST? That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
If it could broadcast information, it would also be a known point. Yeah, exactly. So there's a couple of other things that can mess with your GPS signal coming from the satellite. Because remember I said that they navigate celestially? Well, if the Earth's position itself relative to the satellite, satellite can know where it is. But if the Earth shifts a little bit, like the magnetic core shifts,
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
sloshes around just enough that the earth kind of wobbles a little bit. Or if the sea currents are particularly strong, it can like slow the rotation of the earth. Those things, I mean, just the tiniest, tiniest changes can alter the accuracy of the signal that it gets. But that's just the signal that they're like, we're going to get you within six feet.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
They don't guarantee your receiver and your receiver typically adds a little bit of inaccuracy. I think five meters is usually what you what you're going to get from like your average dumb GPS receiver.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Which is five AA batteries end to end. We're going to get even better than that, though, Chuck, because right now there's some really good GPS antenna that are starting to pop up in smartphones. And those are dual band, dual frequency receivers, one of those two. And that uses the L1, the standard civilian GPS band that has been around since the beginning, but it's gotten better over time.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
And it also uses the new Whizbang L5. And this is like the next generation of GPS. It's not widespread enough yet. There's not enough satellites out there that are L5. for an antenna to just rely on that. But when you put L1 and L5 together, it gets pretty good.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
The thing is, is you might ask yourself, like, why would you need to get, like, within centimeters of the restaurant that you're going to? It doesn't make sense. Well, some people use GPS for more than just finding the restaurant that they're going to.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
I think that Garmin was actually one of the original GPS devices.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah. Also, things use it to basically stay in position, like modern agricultural equipment, like harvesters. They go in a straight line by themselves thanks to really precise GPS. Same with self-driving cars.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah. And then, like, apparently it's just grown so ubiquitous and so reliable that contractors use it. Like, digital blueprints will have GPS coordinates for, like, a nail, right? or an electrical outlet, or something like that. So you can know exactly where that thing's going to go, which, I mean, that's got to cut down on construction costs and time dramatically.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
So here's to you, Marshall. Rest in peace. And as a tribute, we chose an article, one of the few ones that we hadn't recorded that Marshall wrote originally on GPS. And this is like bread and butter Marshall brain stuff. There's engineering. There's science. There's some more engineering. There's figuring things out with circles and diameters and stuff like that. Like straight up Marshall stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah, a tunnel that goes through a mountain with like a hairpin turn in the middle. That sounds great. And if you put all this stuff together, all these different uses for GPS, which again, the American taxpayers give to the world for free, it generated, I think in 2022, $94 billion worth of stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
All of the receivers that were sold, all of the tunnels that were drilled correctly, all that stuff came to generate $94 billion. And in the next five years, it's expected to hit almost $300 billion. So it's a big deal. We rely on GPS a lot.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
And so because we rely on something this much and because, like you said, we don't have a backup of GPS in particular, it can be pretty delicate, I guess you could say, to put it delicately, because it can get screwed up pretty bad, pretty easily. And in fact, on a very local level, you or I could go screw up somebody's GPS for fun anytime we wanted.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
I know. They're like a Friday's. Right. I want to go to Binigan's. Yeah. So you were talking about spoofing. Apparently Iran in 2019, just for kicks, spoofed a British cargo ship's GPS and told that it was in international waters when really they had drifted into Iranian waters. So Iran was like, oh, you're our ship now and you're our crew now. And they held the whole thing for 10 weeks.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Just by being jerks, apparently. I can't figure out what the point would have been for that other than to flex.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
I know. I know. My niece Mila was schooling us on slang and I'm like, there's no context for that. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah. I'm trying to think of one example. I know I'm going to get it wrong.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yes. And I understand. Yes, it's a web video or whatever. But the the the videos itself make no sense whatsoever, too.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah. And I don't mean to complain. I mean, each generation like builds on the last, comes up with its own stuff. I'm happy about that. I just don't understand it. Well, that's the point, I think. You know, I think you're right, actually. And I'm kind of hurt by that.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah, you have to turn the whole thing off and reset everything. You can't just reset the GPS antenna. They need to work out all that stuff, don't you think? They definitely do. But something about those flights being jammed, those are civilian flights being jammed by bad actors and sometimes governments and militaries. So what you're trying to do essentially is to crash a plane full of people.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Like that's your shot. It's not like a really – dedicated shot at it, but that's pretty much the goal of doing that to an airliner.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Okay. There's another thing that spoofing, I believe, I think they use spoofing for it, is to cheat at games like Pokemon Go.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Where you can fake where your own GPS coordinates are to say like, oh, I'm at the, I don't know, Pikachu's lair or something like that. So give me the egg that Pikachu is guarding, which I can turn into like some skee-ball tickets and get a comb.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
It means nothing from what Mila's told me. Like, it's just basically a thing you say. I hope I'm not outing Mila as uncool, though.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
I don't know if it's vital that I know that Skibbity Toilet exists.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Oh, I believe it. Have you seen the videos, though, that it's based on?
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
They're mesmerizing. It doesn't pull me in. You should watch a second or two of it. You don't need to watch much. You get the gist of it really quick, but it's like you'll find that your mouth is open. Not in awe, but just because you're glazed over. Right, right. So, like you said, the United States is not unaware of the vulnerability. That was what I was saying. It was in a delicate position.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
It's vulnerable. It's a very vulnerable system. And, you know, like globally and also locally. So they are taking steps to update it. And that is going to come in the form of adding more and more L5 satellites, right? That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
But for now, if you want to be a little shocked taking into consideration how dependent we are on GPS, the average age of a GPS, specifically the United States' global positioning system satellites, is 13 years. Yeah. That is really old for a satellite. But Chuck, tell them how old the oldest satellite in the constellation of GPS satellites is.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
For sure. Hopefully we made you proud, Marshall. And thanks again for everything. And since we said thanks to Marshall Brain, then I think it's time for listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
I don't even remember mentioning that, let alone knowing that tidbit.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
I have heard that, that anti-inflammatories are actually not very good for you.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
That's awesome. Thanks, Sarah. Way to spread the good word. I know there's a lot of good advice and information in there, but it's just going to take months of digesting that information to try to figure out those acronyms. Yeah. If you want to be like Sarah and put something on our radar that we weren't aware of before, we love that kind of thing.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
You can send it to us via email like Sarah did to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah, global navigation satellite system is the generic term. And GPS has become like the Kleenex of global navigation satellite systems. Like it's the proprietary eponym.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
And GPS is owned and operated by the American government and it's paid for by the American taxpayers, but it's used worldwide. I think out of eight point something billion people on the planet today, six billion of them use GPS every day. So it's America's gift, I think is what I'm trying to say, because if anything, that's what America is known for.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
It's like creating things and giving it away to the rest of the world for free.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
For sure. Technically, you just need three, but let's not get into that right now, okay? So the satellites, they're up in medium Earth orbit, about 11,000 miles above Earth. They circle it constantly. They're not geostationary. So they circle the Earth, and they rise and set, I guess, every 12 hours, so twice a day. They're like the tides, basically. And the GPS satellites are just one component.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
There's three components. There's a satellite component. There's the control component, which is on the ground. The Space Force runs GPS. So they're constantly tracking, monitoring, telling satellites what to do, like really bossing them around. And then the third component is you, the person using GPS, or more technically your receiver that is telling you where you are in the world.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah. And the people around getting, especially his greatest critics, were like, oh, yeah, yeah. How are you going to do that? There's nothing up in space, you jerk. How are you going to do it? Exactly. And he said, just wait. And they sat around and they waited. I don't know how long they waited for a while. And they finally went home.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
And then a couple of years after that, the Soviets came to the rescue in a certain weird way. They launched Sputnik. And in America, in the United States, it was not a happy time. They called it the Sputnik crisis because basically at the time we thought the Soviets were just like some backwater, backwards country. And all of a sudden they were the first ones to launch a satellite into space.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
And it took us by surprise. But... Dr. Getting's theory was able to be put into use because American scientists figured out that you could track Sputnik because its radio signals, I don't know quite how to put it. Let's say they engaged in the Doppler effect. They dabbled in Doppler.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
So that when the satellite was moving away from you, the frequency that reached you here on Earth was different than the frequency when the satellite was moving toward you or when the satellite was just stationed above you. So they figured out that you can track satellites based on these radio signals.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
And that gave the initial rise to GPS, which is you need to track the satellites to know where they are because that is an essential piece of information for GPS. led to people saying like, okay, let's get Genning's idea off the ground. Literally.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah, in 1995, the whole thing was finally operational. They just kept shooting up satellites and tinkering with it and get it going. And I wish we would have kept the name Navstar. I think it's a little cooler than GPS, but I don't know, maybe it sounds a little more hostile or assertive. So GPS is probably okay.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Space Force is, I don't know what Space Force is, the name. It sounds like a movie. It does. Like a Mel Brooks movie. It does. But so we call it GPS. And there were two versions that they released at the same time. One was L1. That bandwidth was used for civilian purposes, everything from – well, if you were in the military, let's say you used L1. If you were in the military, you used L2.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
It's much more precise out of the gate. But the entire reason that this went from what I think was originally a military project intended just for use by the military – to one where everybody who had a GPS receiver could use it for free was actually based on a tragedy that occurred in 19, I think, 83 with Korean Airlines Flight 007.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Well, having been raised in the United States and being 12 in 1983 during the Cold War, I'll bet you were so mad at the Rusky commies for doing that.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Yeah, it was weirdly it was a thing, but I'll bet it was it was Survivor that sang the song.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
I don't know. Maybe they just thought that there were other potential tragedies that they couldn't foresee that could be. I don't know. I don't know. If there's one thing that I'm not, it's in Ronald Reagan's head. Right. I just don't know.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too. Jerry's at a cabin in the woods even, and this is Stuff You Should Know. Podcasting from the future.
Stuff You Should Know
How GPS Works
Right. It just takes too many floppies to back up our GPS. So we're just going without right now. Yeah. You want to take a break? Yeah, let's take a break. I think it's a fantastic setup. Okay. And when we come back, we're going to really wing it by trying to explain how GPS works.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
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Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Well, it's officially too cold to do anything, Chuck. But the upside is that you can cocoon yourself in Bombas socks, slippers and underwear all winter long.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, and Bama's knows that the little things really do make a big difference. So they removed all the itchy tags, fixed the annoying toe seam, and perfected the fit of everything. No more socks that slip down or underwear that rides up. Just perfect comfort.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
So we promised to talk about the Black Death. Apparently one of the high-profile, I guess, forensic dentistry cases recently was a study that looked at the teeth of, or I think it extracted DNA from the pulp of the teeth of medieval villagers who died from the plague. And I guess they were able to exclude the plague in some cases, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Like people had died and it was falsely attributed to a death from the plague. That seems almost inconsequential to me because the other thing that they did was definitively prove that you're seeing a pestis, which is a bacteria, I think a bacteria that's carried by fleas typically. So the rats came to town. The fleas were on the rats. The bacteria was on the fleas.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
And that's what spread the Black Death. That's what they've long said. And they extracted that from the DNA of the pulp of teeth of medieval people who died from the plague, definitely died from the plague, and said, yep, here's your smoking gun. There's your problem.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
You should have just smoked a bunch of cigarettes, done it yourself, saved some money.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
And I also saw the oldest tooth that they successfully sequenced a genome from by extracting DNA from the pulp was 6,000 years old, from about 4,000 BCE. Back in 2005, they managed to do that. And you know those people are still talking about, like, hey, did I ever tell you about the 4,000 BCE tooth we extracted DNA from?
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Oh, God. Good God. That was awful. I was not expecting that.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Oh, OK. Well, then, yeah, you definitely need to hand those off for staining in the lab.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, that's a big one. Also, bruising and lividity can also obscure a bite mark or change it or alter it. So they often have to wait for the bruise to heal if the human's still alive or wait for the lividity, the pooling of blood to just kind of come and go before they really examine it.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, there was a 2015 study that found they used 39 experts. These were board-certified forensic odontologists or members of the American Board of Forensic Odontologists, the accrediting body. I don't know why I went into that much detail, but there you have it.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
In this study with this 39 experts, they showed 100 photographs of bite marks and said, OK, we want some information about this. Are these, let's just start with, is this a human bite mark or an animal bite mark?
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Exactly. And only 8% of the photographs. So eight of a hundred photographs. I just did that math and I'm quite confident it's correct.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Could 90% of those experts, I don't know what 90% of 39 is, come to consensus that, yes, this is definitely human or, yes, this is definitely animal? That's hard to believe. Yeah, they did not agree on the other 92 photographs.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, especially if the animal's wearing human dentures at the time.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Uh, yeah, like that, you know, that cartoon wolf from the old timey 1930s cartoon. I don't think I know that. Oh, sure you do. He was always like his eyes would pop out of his head and like he was. Oh, yeah. You know, like.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, it is pretty gross. I mean, the whole process from start to finish is fairly gross in that case.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Well, they classify them based on the kind of transfer pattern is what they call it. And it's not just specific to forensic odontology. Transfer patterns are what you're looking at when you look at the rifling on a bullet to try to identify what gun it came out of, which also apparently is junk science. fingerprints, you're transferring your fingerprints. So it leaves a transfer pattern.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Same thing with forensic odontology and the different kinds of forensic patterns are based on the damage that the bites do. So if it scrapes, like if you're, I don't need to put it any other way. That's considered an abrasion bite.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, when there's an actual part of the body missing because of the bite. It's not just a bite mark. There's actually tissue or something missing, like an earlobe, I think, like Evander Holyfield's earlobe.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
I'll tape it for you on the VCR. All right, send me the tape.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yes. And then there's also the different depths or the obviousness of the bite mark is another category that they use. And it starts from lowest to highest. It took me a minute to figure this out because I don't think the wording they used is really good. Agreed. A clear impression means that there was significant pressure used. That's the lowest of the three categories. Yes.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
An obvious one signifies medium pressure, which that to me just shows that this is not accurate science. Medium is a type of fry order, French fry order. Right. The, you know, depth of a bite mark. Like medium is so subjective, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
All three of these are. And then noticeable, that seems to me like that would be the least of the three. That's the most pronounced bite mark of all because the biter used violent pressure to bite down.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, for sure. There's also some other things that the biter can do during the biting. If they use their jaw a bunch, it's not just one bite where they clamp down. If they bite in succession a few times, That was going to leave a totally different mark from one that is going to where they just clamp their jaw down or something.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
If they move their tongue, it will move the skin around and will affect the bite mark that's left behind. We should have probably given like a heads up at the outside of this episode, huh?
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Oh, good one. And then there's another one, too. If the victim is being is still in my which to me means dead because nobody's going to sit still while they're being bitten hard enough to leave a bite mark that could be used against you in court. But, you know, if they're moving, that's going to affect the bite mark that's left behind, too.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
And then, of course, also the kind of tooth profile they have, too, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, like if you ate a bunch of chips and they're just stuck between your teeth. Is that what you meant?
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
In some cases, they would say things like with 100 percent certainty.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Another thing that they say, too, that we'll find that seems to not be at all true is that each person's arrangement and teeth, like your mouth, everything inside your mouth is totally unique, like your fingerprints. And that apparently is not true at all. But you'll find it all over the Internet as fact.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah. I mean, just from researching this, it's like what kind of judge is still allowing this in as evidence? It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess I just revealed my take on forensic dentistry or bite mark analysis specifically because the other version you said identifying deceased people is – Not as controversial. No, it's pretty much set.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah. Well, let's take that break and we'll come back and we'll talk about all the controversy surrounding bite mark analysis as a part of forensic odontology. Man, that's a mouthful. If you're driving right now, look around. I'll wait. All those cars you see, they're all probably on autotrader.com.
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Forensic Dentistry
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Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
What does that stand for? The National Institute of Standards and Technology. They're like a federal agency, if I'm not mistaken.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
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Forensic Dentistry
I didn't read anybody who was challenging it or its legitimacy. And apparently it's been really useful over the years because the teeth are the strongest part of the body. They can survive fire. They can survive exposure to chemicals that could just get rid of the rest of the body. They can survive explosions up to, I think, 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. They can take heat up to that.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, yeah. In my opinion. Yeah, for sure. But the fact is that study, and we should also caveat that with the fact that this study used dental charts only. And they made sure that they were highly high quality dentists. dental charts that they examined.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
But the fact that they were able to find dental charts that were identical between two people totally undermines the idea that everybody's mouth is unique. Everybody's teeth arrangement is unique.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, and this was 2,000 dental charts. They didn't choose, like, three. Like, this was a pretty decent, high-quality study. And, yeah, I think it totally undermines that. But, like you said, yes, there's also enough uniqueness that you can kind of use this. And I think, like you said, nobody's really saying, like, stop doing bite mark analysis entirely. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
And actually in their defense, the American Board of Forensic Odontology says they basically admit like, hey, we made some mistakes in the past. We've cleaned up our act. We've revised our guidelines. And now if you're a legitimate forensic odontologist, the furthest you will go is to make three different calls.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
One, exclude, meaning that this person's teeth could not have possibly made the bite mark that you're showing me, cops.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Not exclude, which is only saying it's possible. I'm not going to go any further than that, but their teeth resemble enough this bite mark pattern, this bite pattern, that it's possible that this person made it. And then inconclusive. And that's as far as they're supposed to go. They're not supposed to in that sense. I guess you could testify those three things.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
But if the prosecutor is like, OK, so so not exclude, you're saying it's his right there. They're supposed to bail essentially at that point. They're not supposed to go any further than that. That's the standard in the guidelines for forensic dentists doing bite analysis, bite mark analysis today. But there's still plenty of people out there who are going beyond that.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, he was sentenced to jail. I think was that Roy Brown?
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
As anyone who's made it far enough in Breaking Bad knows that eventually, if it gets hot enough, they'll pop like popcorn. But most of the time, if a dead person who's unidentifiable comes into a medical examiner's office, they have not been exposed to that level of heat.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
OK, so, yeah, he spent almost 20 years in jail, 15 years from 92 to 2007, largely based on that that bite mark analysis testimony.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, that was a big one, too. I think maybe in one of those cases where they were appealing it. I don't know if it was Roy Brown's, but there have been plenty of forensic odontologists who have gone back and been like, what I was saying apparently is not right or grounded in science. I recant my testimony. And at least one judge that I read was like, well, we didn't really need you.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
The jury could have come to the same conclusion that the bite mark matched their teeth. So I'm not going to overturn this case, which is nuts in and of itself. But Roy Brown is far from the only person who has been exonerated after being convicted on bite mark analysis, too, right? Like, haven't there been like at least 26 people?
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah. Remember when I was saying some expert witnesses on the stand say like this, it's 100 percent match. That happened to a guy named Roy Crone.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
He did 10 years based on bite mark analysis because you got to understand if you're a juror and the prosecution is saying like this person is an expert in forensic odontology and that expert tells you, the jurors, there is 100 percent match between that man's teeth and this bite mark on this murder victim. It's going to be tough to overlook that for the average juror, I would guess.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, there was another thing too, I think from that same study where they took the same experts and went back to them eight weeks with the exact same photos they'd shown them eight weeks before. And some of those experts didn't even agree with their previous assessments.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah. So that was and they weren't like, hey, you said this before. What do you think now? It was like they I think they thought that this is a new set of bite marks and they were just basically guessing is what they found. So it's been pretty thoroughly debunked. But people still use it. The Innocence Project has really taken an interest in this, and I think rightfully so.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
We did an episode on that with guests. If I remember correctly. And yeah, so they're a group that go around and basically free people who were railroaded or wrongfully convicted, usually based on DNA evidence that wasn't heard in their case. And so one of the things that they've done is taken interest in bite mark analysis.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
And one of the roles they play now is I don't know how they keep their finger on the pulse. But if a prosecutor, which is very rare these days, from what I understand, tries to introduce bite mark analysis into a case, the Innocence Project will show up and be like, we object to that. This is not science. This should not be admitted. And I think they're fairly successful.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
This is a big one. So there is a forensic odontologist from Mississippi named Michael West. And he essentially just changed careers to be an expert witness in forensic odontology. That's how he made his living.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
And he came up with a technique called the West Phenomenon, wherein you can, according to him, using some special goggles and a UV light, you can basically resurrect a bite mark that's healed years later and see it well enough that you can compare it to a suspect's bite and use it to convict. He totally made it up.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Apparently, at least in the first case that he used it on, he took photographs, but he wouldn't share them with anybody. So it was just his testimony that this person was convicted on. And it became a tool of the trade. So other people, including John Konko, were convicted in part because of this West phenomenon, which is part of the overall junk forensic science.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
So this is the junkiest of the junk that people were being convicted on.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
But he sold them as X-ray goggles that you could look right through people's clothes with. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah. You just use it to exclude. That's what most people can agree on for bite mark analysis is as far as they'll go.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Chuck, did I ever tell you about Paul Revere in Forensic Odontology?
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah. So Paul Revere, in addition to being a blacksmith, he was a dentist too. And one of the things he did, he was one of the first forensic odontologists who used dental records based on his own knowledge too. He made dental work for a lot of people in the Revolutionary War.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, I disagree. But yes, we'll find out. You think? I'm going to go find something.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, you forgot forensic foot smelling. Then we're going to have to go do that one.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Right. Nice. Oh, actually, I can do this old school, too, because if you want to know more about forensic dentistry, you can go check out a HowStuffWorks article that we used in part for this episode. That is kicking it old school, isn't it?
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, and since I kicked it old school, then it's time for Listener Mail.
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Forensic Dentistry
If you want to be like Steve and tell us that you had to pull over because you were so overcome by something we did or said, we love that kind of thing, especially if it was positive, not because it was so terrible that you had to pull over. But even if that was the case, you can still email us. Either way, send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
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Forensic Dentistry
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Forensic Dentistry
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Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, and Bama's knows that the little things really do make a big difference. So they removed all the itchy tags, fixed the annoying toe seam, and perfected the fit of everything. No more socks that slip down or underwear that rides up. Just perfect comfort.
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Forensic Dentistry
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Forensic Dentistry
Yes, and that was a very fateful decision because as that case made its way through appeals and a final appellate court upheld it, that also simultaneously not only convicted the killer, it also said this is legitimate. Bite mark analysis is admissible in court. It set a precedent. And that exception that those three forensic dentists in their defense
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
you know, went to bat for for use in this particular case became the rule. And there was no longer like, hey, this is not actually that great of an idea. It was, hey, we've got this new way of prosecuting scumbags. Let's use it to the max.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
And there was a really famous case within just a couple of years of it becoming widely used in American courts that's still celebrated today as one of the great successes of bite mark analysis. Because it's not like every single case is worse than the last.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
But there's enough bad cases and enough people who've been wrongly convicted and later exonerated based on bite mark evidence that it should not be allowed. You just go figure out who did it some other way. Stop using bite mark analysis.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
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Forensic Dentistry
Yeah, the two Chi Omega women who died, who did not manage to live, were Lisa Levy and Margaret Bowman. But he did some pretty terrible damage to the other two, I guess. But that bite mark, apparently Ted Bundy had extremely crooked front teeth. So much so in the bite mark was clear enough that they use that bite mark analysis in part to convict him for those murders.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Those were he apparently admitted to killing 30 women, possibly killed as many as 100. And so one of the one of the cases he was prosecuted for were the Kyle Omega murders.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah. And also by law, I think every state requires dentists to keep dental charts on their patients. And then they also have to retain them for a set number of years, depending on which state demands what. So they do come in handy, just the charts alone. Well, like there's not going to be x-rays with them necessarily. There's not going to be any photographs.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Just from the charts and the coding systems that they've worked out to codify teeth can conceivably give you enough information that you could use it in some form of forensic dentistry. That's how accurate the charts are meant to be.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Yeah. Yeah. It takes a special kind of dentist to do this kind of work because by the time the cadaver, the corpse has made it to the forensic dentist, everybody else upstream has said like, no, they don't have fingerprints. Their face is unrecognizable. It just keeps going on and on and on until finally your last chance of identifying the person is forensic dentistry.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's not here, but she's here in spirit. We're all flashing our pearly whites because we're in a lineup and this is Stuffish.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
And they'll often, I mean, like if it's a mass casualty, you know, you know who is on the plane. Apparently that's when it comes in handy a lot for plane crashes. You know all the passengers on the plane. You go get their dental records. You hand them over to the forensic dentist and say, good luck. Can you match any of these teeth with these charts?
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
And they're, I mean, they're a huge part of a forensic team in like mass casualty events. They're really important because, again, they're like – The last hope of some families getting closure, being able to like give their loved one a funeral or something like that. Like that's the role that they're playing.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
They're not doing this because they like just playing with dead people's teeth or anything like that. Like they are helping other humans with their work by identifying disaster victims, not extending that to bite mark analysis.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Well, not only that, you can also like when your teeth develop as a human, it follows a set pattern. So you can go and look at somebody's development, especially if they're under age, I think 20 something or 35 and say, well, they have they've developed this tooth, but they haven't developed this tooth. So they're probably 18 ish.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Did you see any pictures of a skull with a wear from pipe smoking? Yeah. It's crazy. It's like the person's teeth like curve up at some point, like on basically I think it was the right side of their face, just from holding a pipe in their teeth for years and years and years.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
I also saw another lifestyle one was something called a tailor's notch. This is pretty arcane. But if you find a tailor's notch, there's a chance that this was a dressmaker, a tailor, something like that, because they hold pins in their mouths as part of their profession, usually in their teeth.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
And when you do that enough times, it actually wears a little indentation in the tooth that you normally hold the sewing needle in. So do you want to talk about the Black Death or just keep moving on? Let's take a break. Okay.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
Hey, everybody. It's Chuck and Josh here to talk to you about Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easy to build the website of your dreams and do whatever you like with it.
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Forensic Dentistry
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Forensic Dentistry
If you're driving right now, look around. I'll wait. All those cars you see, they're all probably on autotrader.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Forensic Dentistry
AutoTrader has been attracting car shoppers for years now, and for good reason. Not only do they have supercharged search features that allow you to easily find your perfect car, AutoTrader has Kelley Bluebook MyWallet. From credit scores to down payments to interest rates, we all know that car buying requires a lot of math, so enter MyWallet on AutoTrader.
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Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
That's right. He also wrote White Christmas, which I read is the best-selling Christmas song of all time.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
No. Well, it ended up on Broadway. It was in the movie Holiday Inn, and then they retro created a musical based on the movie.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Right. Another pair that were really huge at this time were George and Ira Gershwin brothers, another Jewish immigrant family. They created Funny Face, Girl Crazy, Porgy and Bess. And some of these, as we'll see, were pretty kind of groundbreaking, especially at the time. But they also launched some stars careers like Ethel Merman.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
You haven't been singing the one I've been singing.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
You think of when you when you think of somebody singing, there's no business like show business. I think Ethel Merman.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Right, exactly. That's where I first learned about it. Ginger Rogers, Greta Steyer.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
There's no business like show business, like no business I know.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah. And you better know the difference.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
I say that we we take a break and we come back and we talk about the establishment of Broadway shows as we know them. Let's do it.
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Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Okay, so one Hammerstein did some amazing stuff with Broadway, creating Broadway.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
But this family was showing off, and they produced Oscar Hammerstein II, who was the grandson of Oscar Hammerstein I. And he got together with a composer named Jerome Kern, and they just started making some amazing, groundbreaking, for the time especially, new kinds of musicals that just gave us Broadway as we know it today.
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Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
as a direct you know descendant of hammerstein 2 and jerome kern uh is sort of the way to go right they came up with a showboat together which was an enormously groundbreaking show it combined both white and black performers on the same stage which if you remember a harry belafonte episode that was a no-no well into the 50s and 60s these guys made this show in 1927
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah, and, I mean, a lot of the themes were about racism, and it just kind of took it head on. It was a serious, dramatic story. It wasn't like, you know, feel good, forget your troubles, come on, get happy kind of thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Like when a woman is in an episode of Monty Python. It's like, why are you guys in drag then?
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Neon Lights is a Kraftwerk song. You're way off.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Oklahoma. Right. Sure. So this show, this established Richard Rogers and Oscar Hammerstein like this is 1943. It set a record for the most performances at the time. It's long since been just totally demolished, but it had a record performance total of twenty two hundred and twelve performances. That was just unheard of back then.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Little Johnny Jones is the most 1920s play title or musical title I've ever heard.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
I read, Chuck, also that at one point they had three of the longest running plays or shows on Broadway at the time and three other shows in production to be adapted to films all at the same time. Giants.
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Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Giants. Yeah. We could have just left it at that now that I think about it.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah, who would go on to direct Contagion, which we mentioned recently, too.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah, he's great too. Cabaret was another one. By this time, this was 1966. Today, you think of Cabaret and it's just a cult classic musical. But at the time, it was groundbreaking in that it introduced a new kind of musical to Broadway, which is actually kind of a throwback to how it used to be. It's called a concept musical.
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Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
And rather than, you know, a through line story where the songs advance the story and everything, this was more like there was a theme. The theme was the show was set at the Kit Kat Club in Berlin, I think in Weimar era Berlin. Yeah. And through the songs that all kind of have this share this kind of same theme, this concept is created.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
I think the theme was I've not seen Cabaret, but I believe that it was a meditation on the rise of Nazism during the Weimar Republic's kind of swinging days.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Uh, yeah. Well, let's go see it together for the first time. I don't know that it's, is it running? Is there a revival going on? Oh man, I'm going to get myself killed. I'm talking about the movie. There's movies for all of these pretty much. So we can just see the movie. There really is. There's two West Side Stories, in fact. Yeah, Steven Spielberg did one.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
It's really good, though. I think it's actually the best song about neon lights.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah. No, it is super groovy hair. If there's one word to describe hair, it's groovy. Yeah. If the other there's if you want one more word, it would be nude.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Oh, of course. So I have no follow-up questions whatsoever to that. Instead, okay, what were you doing at Milo's house? I'll tell you offline. Okay, cool. So Stephen Sondheim, who you already mentioned, he made a name for himself by writing the lyrics to West Side Story. But apparently his big breakout was something called Company. which is a bunch of vignettes about romantic relationships.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
I have not seen that one either. I kind of feel like a rube talking about all these things that I haven't seen. But I did read about it. And I read that the whole thing starts at the main character's 35th birthday party, walks into the birthday party, and then these vignettes start. And then the thing ends...
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
I think with him walking into the 35th birthday party to make it like this all took place in just a moment in time. All of these vignettes did.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Oh, nice. Thanks, Sarah. We should probably say for anybody who didn't bother looking at the title, we're talking about Broadway today. Broadway, as in the American home of musicals, the Great White Way, you know, where musical theater goes to live and thrive and give it a shot at stardom.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
A Chorus Line, another movie. That one was kind of meta. It was another concept musical where the whole thing takes place in an audition. And so the whole thing is about theater life, about theater people, but it's actually a musical show. It's pretty cool.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Some people say, like, if you could build a time machine, what would you do? I would go back and prevent Andrew Lloyd Webber from having that thought.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
It's the only time outside of an airplane where I tried to make myself go to sleep in public. Was it at a live show? I was like, I can't even just sit here. Yes, it was at a performance. Like, I can't just sit here. Like, I have to not be conscious for this.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
And I was too young to leave. I don't think I was driving at the time. I was with my family.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
No, I think I don't have a recollection of the show after a certain point. So I think I might have been successful in falling asleep.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah, for sure. That one I can sing along with basically from start to finish. I love that one. Exactly. I knew exactly what you were doing just then because I'm so familiar with it.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
You should definitely see it again. It's a really great show. The music, the lyrics. I know, I got to see it. There's like a one-ton chandelier that falls to the stage. Like, it's a good show. And I think you're right that it did kick off kind of the mega productions thing. It ran for 35 years. And as far as I know, it holds the record still for the most performances at 13,981. Wow.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Remember, Oklahoma set something at like 2,200 before.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
It's pretty amazing. So, yeah, I love that show. I'm just going to say it probably five more times throughout this show.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
True, true. I'm more of a play guy than a musical guy myself. I remember going to see La La Land in the theater and being like, I had no idea this was a musical. Luckily, it turned out really well. But at first I was like, you got to be kidding me. Kind of like, you know, when you go to drink, take a sip of water and it turns out to be Coke. It's really shocking.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
David Dinkins was the one who I think maybe had the biggest impact. We should mention John Lindsay in the early 70s. He created a tax incentive where if you built in Times Square a new building, you could get a pretty good tax break, but you had to build a theater on the ground floor. to try to bring the theater back to the area. I thought that was a pretty ingenious idea.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
But to me, David Dinkins probably had the biggest impact, good or bad, by making a deal with Michael Eisner, who was running Walt Disney at the time. And he said, just do your thing here, Disney. Like, we got a lot of perverts running around here. We need some Disney to counterbalance this stuff and maybe even overwhelm it. And it worked.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Like, if you pour enough Disney onto an area, the perverts just turn and run.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
That's just insane. Even today. But this was the mid 90s.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah, there's a lot of front loaded costs. But then, yeah, after you get it up and running and it's going, it can just go by itself, basically.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Oh, geez, I wasn't expecting that, but sure, let's do that.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
But then you're like, OK, that's fine. It was a lot like that. The movie version of that.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah, because it's such a legendary show to just have this show that you probably I'm sure he was like, I think this is going to be big. And then he dies right before even seeing it performed once. That's just sad. Yeah, very sad. And then another thing that kind of came along, there were plenty of escapist shows, we should say. And there still are.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
And a really good example from fairly recent times is Mamma Mia. which is one of those jukebox, it is hard to say, isn't it? Jukebox musical, which is it takes existing songs everybody knows and loves and then creates like a musical around them. And Mamma Mia did that back in 2001 with ABBA songs.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Don't forget Dee Snider from Twisted Sister had Rock of Ages.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah, there's some good ones. There's a Carole King, basically, bio-musical. Didn't see that. I didn't either. I didn't either. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yes, it was. I always loved her in Pushing Up Daisies. Do you remember that show? I do, but I did not see that. Oh, you should go back and watch it. I saw it not too long ago, and it really holds up. It is a very charming show.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah, pretty much. Just put a colon before it, and we can add that, okay?
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
That's OK, Chuck. I'll let you off the hook. It was too expensive. Yeah, it really was, wasn't it? Those were some high priced tickets for a while because everybody was talking about that show.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
I got to mention this one. I've not seen this, believe it or not, everybody. It's called Dear Evan Hansen. It's from 2016. But I did read a couple of articles on it. And it sounds totally off the wall where the title character is mistaken for the best friend of a teenager who's just died by suicide. And so he suddenly becomes very popular and like everybody wants to know what this kid was like.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
And he uses it to basically become popular and liked, whereas otherwise he was just kind of overlooked, you know, kid on the sides. And there's all this horrible stuff that starts to happen and unravels. And I think he's publicly unmasked at some point.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
That's a pilgrimage is what they call it.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah, I read about that. It seems like it was just a completely amateur production from start to finish. Like everybody was basically had no idea what they were doing. And if you want to just be delighted, go read articles about the flop that was Moose Murders, because it's widely considered like the the worst show that ever hit Broadway ever.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
In a lot of ways, though, it's tough to qualify that because there's plenty of bad shows out there and some have been forgotten. But for some reason, Moose Murders just became like the symbol for the worst shows on Broadway.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
No, I haven't. Honestly, I haven't kept up with Broadway lately.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah, there's a song about killing a pig in it, I think, to get the blood to pour on her. And the lyrics go, it's a simple little gig. You help me kill a pig.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
It was a terrible idea. And I read it was terribly executed, too, in the end that just, you know, they really tried, though. I think that's the difference.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
I would go see that. I would go see that. Yeah. And then I think the biggest flop as far as money goes is Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark from 2011. That's another one that just anybody who has anything to do or any interest in Broadway, they know about this flop.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah. So when you're performing a show or putting on a production, you have what are called previews where people can come. The critics are not allowed to see it yet, but normal people can come and watch it.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
But under the understanding that they're going to be stopping in the middle of performance, taking notes, maybe giving notes, there's going to be technical glitches and they're working it out still in front of an audience. And I think the first preview of Spider-Man went three and a half hours for the first act alone. And it holds the record for the largest number of previews.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
The more previews you have, the more problems you have, obviously. It had 182 preview shows before it ever opened.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
I thought, OK, I thought I read somewhere that critics are not allowed. So maybe there's like a special preview. There may be a window or something. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Well, Chuck, that's Broadway. We could keep talking about this for hours and hours and hours, but I feel like we probably haven't seen most of the stuff we would talk about.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Okay. Fair enough. Sounds good. And we'll have seen Carrie together by then.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah. It's pretty amazing, Chuck. I think we first learned about it in Town and Country magazine. They did an article called How a Secret British Spy Mission Became a Broadway Hit. And I think someone sent it to us and I was like, oh, that's interesting. And as I read a little deeper, I found that they mentioned us specifically as the inspiration for this hit musical.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
That's right. Yeah. So big thanks to those guys for letting the world know that we helped inspire that because that is quite an honor. And I think we would also be remiss to not say break a leg. That's right. Do you have anything else? I have nothing else. Okay. Well, since Chuck said he has nothing else and neither do I, I think it's time for Listener Mail.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah, happy birthday, Bonnie. You can't see me right now, but I'm making a heart out of my hands.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
That's really great. Seriously, thanks for listening to us, Bonnie. I'm glad we could help and keep you company. And if you want to be like Bonnie, wait, who was it that wrote in? Her son?
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Cody. If you want to be like Cody and tell us about the Bonnie in your life, we'd love to hear that kind of stuff. You can send it via email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yes. Are they online, too, or is that like a physically stand there in person kind of thing?
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah, and apparently if you go with like an hour or so before the booth opens, the line, once it does open, will only be about an hour. That's how long it takes to clear out typically. And people who are in line know what they want to see and they want the best seats. And that's what they're going for. That's why they're standing in line. But if you're like, hey, I'm in New York.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Let's catch a show. I don't care what show. You can just show up like a couple hours after the thing opens and walk right up and pick a show.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
I don't know much about it lately. Like I left off with Phantom of the Opera. That was probably the last musical I was ever really into. So but I know that since I've been into it, like they've become blockbuster productions.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Very much along like the Marvel Cinematic Universe movie franchise stuff where it's like just put a ton of money into it. Yeah. And people come from all over and you'll make 10 times what you put into it. Yeah. And that I mean, that's that's fairly a fairly new development.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Is it like that basically across the board now or surely that's like a handful of powerhouse shows and the rest of them are more normal and hence ticket prices are more normal. Do you know?
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Like when the salesman from Death of a Salesman flies out over the crowd at that one scene. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
OK, so you're not going to find like a 1950s, 60s style musical comedy that isn't relying at all on special effects there anymore.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
So, OK, last question. Ticket prices from what I've seen are like eye popping. Pretty expensive. Like 200 bucks.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Man, ouch. So there's got to be tickets that the normal person can afford, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah. All right. Well, that's a bit of a shame, I have to say.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
OK, well, I'm going to start talking about the history of Broadway.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
So Olivia helped us out with this. Kudos to her because this is a huge, huge topic and she wrangled it greatly. But the street itself, Broadway, is really, really old. It's actually built on an old Lenape tribe trail that connected the tribes along the 13 miles of Manahatta. So this is like pre-contact. Yeah. Broadway was already in existence.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
When the Dutch showed up and they said this is New Amsterdam, eventually we'll rename it New York.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
They called it de Heerstraat, which is gentleman's way. So apparently here with two E's in the middle means gentleman in Dutch if you want to impress people at your next party. Yeah. But they just called it bredweg or broad way, broad road. And the English said, well, we're just going to call that Broadway from now on.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
I mean, can you squeeze three more seats in there, Hayes? Maybe standing room only.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
You're not going to mention the name of the owner of the new theater building?
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Which is a really great hotel check-in name.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah, governor. Governor, okay. They give you special treatment. Yeah. So yeah, you said that was in what is now the financial district. So slowly but surely, it started to kind of move to what was called the Longacre Square. But before that, there was a lot of theaters that had opened up sporadically away from what we now consider Broadway.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
And I think the first, I don't know if we said it or not, because you corrected me when I said like musicals. You're like, well, plays too. But most people, when they're talking about Broadway, think They're thinking about musicals, right? So the first musical, as far as anybody can tell, that was performed in New York was called The Beggar's Opera. It was about thieves and sex workers.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
It was a musical comedy. It sounds like it was... somewhat like one of the plays that would come in the 19th century or one of the musicals where there were like kind of breaks in between where some stand-up comedian would come out or a juggler maybe or somebody would perform a song. But the songs didn't have much to do with the story, if anything at all.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here too, and this is a good old-fashioned, toe-tapping, feel-good event of the century that we like to call Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Gotcha. Which I think is for young audiences, right? Is it? Yeah, I'm almost positive it is.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
Yeah, like Avenue Q. Yeah, exactly. So within like a decade, Oscar Hammerstein I built like three major theaters in New York City. And he helped pretty much establish this theater district or the concept that New York had a theater district.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
or it was a theater town, I guess. Plus, and this is probably a fairly overlooked component of it, the Interboro Rapid Transit System, the train, helped too, because it could get people around New York much more easily than before.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
So with those two things, Hammerstein and the IRT converging, New York suddenly had everything it needed, all the ingredients to become a world-class theater destination.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
That's a bunch. That's almost half of the theaters on Broadway.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
So all of this hubbub and activity of building theaters and attracting like really good performers and plays and musicals. By the time World War One rolled around, like New York was on the map for theater and Broadway was the theater district for New York by this time.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
And one of the things that really helped things along, kind of picked up where Oscar Hammerstein I and the IRT left off to really, like, give things a real goose, was the Ziegfeld Follies, which I know we talked about in our episode on vaudeville in November 2022. We talked about that a lot.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
But the idea that, like, you could go to the theater and you could see some amazing performances and hear some funny comedy and see some crazy dances or great dances. like that drew people to theaters, like everyday people who might otherwise not have gone to the theater.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
It's one of my least favorites. Is that from a chorus line?
Stuff You Should Know
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So visit apu.apus.edu slash military to learn more. American Public University, education that moves with you.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Thank you for not throwing up long enough to record this episode.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Man, that is awful. Are you going to be able to record tomorrow?
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah, there was a really low likelihood that one customer was going to expose themselves to the other customers. It just wasn't that kind of place, right?
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
And like you said, they are gorgeous. They were Art Deco, which was the trend at the time. Beautiful. And they would have, some of them had like two-story facades. There was a lot of marble stained glass, bronze everywhere. They had big windows that let in tons of light. Some of them had a mezzanine upstairs dining area. They were huge.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
And then they also paid attention to details too, like that famous coffee that you were talking about. You would put your nickel in this cool little dispenser and the coffee came out of an Italianate Dolphin's mouth.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
I didn't see, but I'll get you one just as a present for recording today. How about that?
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Kind of like the Merv Griffin set. They just found him out back of a Burger King. What? I never heard that. You remember in Seinfeld when Kramer found the old Merv Griffin set and he started hosting the Merv Griffin show in his apartment?
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
That's right. So you said they were rigorously clean. That was one of the things they were known for. The other thing they were known for was that their food was like Like, really fresh. I couldn't think of a non-offensive way to put it, but it was a really fresh take on food.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah. Or two and a half cents. Yeah. If you could find a half cent.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
For sure. As long as it hasn't fallen on the street in public. Right. For sure. No street pie. And they were also known for that really good coffee, right, that came out of dolphins' mouths. So at the time, if you were in America, the coffee you drank, and this is the, I don't know, the 1910s, it was boiled. Yeah. And there was no filter, no nothing. So like grounds would come out.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
So your coffee was gritty. There was no filter, again, to take out any of the oils, any of the tastes. It was harsh, harsh coffee. And that's what people drank. And you liked it and you didn't complain because the coffee would punch you in the face if you did. It was that kind of coffee. Well, Horn and Hardart had a different take. They had French drip, right? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
which still makes pretty good coffee. But at the time, you had to go to New Orleans to get coffee like that. And Horn and Hart are serving the stuff in New York and Philadelphia at all of their 60-plus automats for a nickel. And every 20 minutes, they throw out the old coffee and bring in fresh stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah, and I did the math. In 1912, which is when they hit New York, a nickel was worth $1.60 today. By 1950, it was worth 64 cents. So they started definitely losing money over time on that coffee.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Maybe we can tie it into the idea that I had about why everything is so much more expensive now, even relatively speaking, than it used to be.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
But even still, even doubling the price from a nickel to a dime in 1950s money, that was still 20 or so cents less than what they were getting for it in 1912.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Adjusting for inflation. So it sounds like to me. The bigger problem is that they just doubled it overnight. And again, that's all they could do because their slots only took nickels. So that's what they had to deal with. But like you said, even still, they came out on top revenue wise.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah, I think every. Yeah, because they were pretty proper back then, too, you know, pie for breakfast. Even today, though, I went and looked. I was like, OK, surely our attitudes have changed. No, no, they haven't. If you look up breakfast pies, it's all like, you know, breakfast stuff. But in like a pie shell or something like that, there's no one out there eating actual pie for breakfast.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
You can make the case that almost all breakfast foods are desserts in the United States, man. Have you heard of like IHOP?
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Although I don't like biscuits very much as a sandwich. I like a biscuit on its own. Like say a Cracker Barrel, if you get biscuits and honey, really good. But if you take that biscuit, cut it in half and put anything like an egg or cheese or something on it, I'm like, this is grody. Give me an English muffin. Make it a mick. Wow. Okay. For sure. Never knew that.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
You need to learn four words in Spanish. I'll have that neat.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
That's funny. So I guess they decided that that 99-cent price really brought people in more than a $1 movie would, huh?
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
One of the things, though, Chuck, did you see, I guess, in the documentary, the nickel throwers and like the bubble glass, the glass bubble fronted things that they said and they look like fortune tellers.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
But it was part of that whole ornate look to everything. Like just the whole most of those places were really pretty.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
So one of the things, though, is including people like Neil Simon, other people who were interviewed in the Automat documentary, people tend to remember the food as like good food. And it's entirely possible it was for a while. But the older, the longer you go along in the history of the automat, the worse the food probably got for a little while.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
So it's not entirely clear that the food was actually good toward the end. And we can't really say because, again, the last one closed in 1991. And I'm guessing by the time that one closed. It probably wasn't too good. Right. You shouldn't really compare the food in general over the course of the history of the automat to that last one.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
But I'm guessing it was probably pretty decent for a while based on some of the stuff I'm reading.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
You know, I'm with you. So, Chuck, I say we talk about how automated the automat really was because it turns out not really. It was really a facade. Literally, it was a facade of food that seemed to be mysteriously conjured out of nowhere, possibly by robots. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah, so say that you went up and you're like, I'm going to have that delicious bowl of bubbling, greasy oyster stew that's just sitting there looking at me in the face. I think one of those oysters might still be alive. That's how good it was, right? And you put your nickel in and you pull the lever, correct? Yes.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Well, that's what we're doing. We're doing an episode on automats. There's nothing more newsier current than that.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Or like you were buying cigarettes as a kid when you were 14 in a coin-operated machine. That kind of lever is what I'm talking about, right?
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Exactly. So, you would do something like that and then either it would open, like it would allow the little glass compartment window to open up so you could get your oyster stew or what have you from inside. Or it might rotate a drum, like you were saying, so that that oyster stew was now available to you and you'd open the window and then…
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
there would be an open compartment in the back of the drum that somebody who was working the back of the automatic cases would see was empty and would put a new thing of oyster stew in there. And then the whole thing would just continue. I also saw that some of them had a photo of the food and that, yeah, you would like open the case and just pull it out.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
And then the people in back would notice that that one was empty. But suffice to say, however, the food came out, There was a way to see in the rear that that compartment needed refilling. And one of the things Horn and Hardart was known for was employing armies of people who made sure that that food was there, that the compartments were full, and that the food was fresh too.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
That the Salisbury steak wasn't getting jiggly. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
There was also an actor named Apache Ramos, who is best known for playing one of the orphans in The Warriors. But also is lesser known as having managed the Fat Boys in the 80s.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah. What a great Afro. Yeah. But he also managed the Fat Boys like the Fat Boys are back. Uh huh. In the 80s. He worked at an automat and so did his grandmother. I'm assuming one or the other got the other one the job. But he remembered that the Horn and Hardart would throw holiday parties for the workers' children around like Christmas time. Oh, man.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Can you imagine how beautiful those places looked when they were decorated for Christmas parties in like the 50s and 60s? Yeah. You know, people are like, if you could ever go back in time, what would you do? I would go to that Christmas party.
Stuff You Should Know
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Your friend Richie was like, well, my dad owns the tire shop, so you can come to that. We don't really have a party, but we stand around.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Thanks, Capital One bank guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank.
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How Automats Worked
Yes. Well, Amazon understands, which is why they created Amazon One Medical and Amazon Pharmacy. They're designed to remove these pain points from health care. With Amazon One Medical, you get 24-7 virtual care so you can see a provider within minutes and avoid those long, annoying waits.
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We have another huge shout-out to give. This is the first episode we're doing with help from our new writer, Laura Clausen.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
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Yep, delivered online, APU's programs make it possible to learn wherever life takes you. And courses are offered in 8- and 16-week formats with monthly start dates so you can begin when it's convenient and progress at a pace that's comfortable for you.
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So visit apu.apus.edu slash military to learn more. American Public University, education that moves with you. Okay, Chuck, just before we took a break, you nailed it on the head. You said we were talking about the inclusivity of the automat, and in particular, the Horn and Harder automat, which, again, they were synonymous with automats.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
I've been thinking, Chuck, a lot of our writers have good nicknames. Okay. Laura spells her last name like Claw, C-L-A-W, son. So I think we should call Laura Dr. Claw.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
They were one of the earliest chain restaurants in the United States to integrate, not discriminate against their clientele. Not just, you know, like unescorted women, God forbid. Right. But also racially speaking, economically speaking, like whoever came to a horn and heart or automat to eat was treated equally. And that was huge. I mean, we're talking starting in the 1910s. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
That was an enormous deal. And that's something that, I mean, my hat's off to them for that.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah, it's pretty cool. There was also a historian named Lisa Keller, I believe in the documentary, pointed out that if you were an immigrant, this was a great place for you to go because you just went and looked at the food and put your nickel in. You didn't really have to be able to read or speak English and you could still get a good meal of oyster stew.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
I can't wait to see what Aaron Cooper does with this. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah, and James Dean, his favorite baked beans in the world were Horn and Hardart's baked beans.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
That's right. He really knew what he was talking about, too. That's how he died in that car accident. He was eating some baked beans at the time and lost control of the steering wheel. Oh, God. That's not true, everybody. We did a short stuff on it. So. Yeah, exactly. Don't at me.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Right. Like how like when we were kids, you went to that city's like Hard Rock Cafe to get the shirt. Remember that?
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah. You wear it with your Panama Jack sunglasses and everybody at home would be like you had a great summer, obviously.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Wowee. Did they put your guitar up under a glass case afterwards? They did. That'd be pretty sweet. They should.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
I actually have seen it. So if you don't have cable, but you have an antenna, over-the-air antenna.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah, Wild West Room. I could not find a picture of that. But apparently one of the automats, this one in Times Square, they put a Wild West Room in in 1966. I mean, I'm sure people would have gone crazy for that in 1966.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
There's a station called MeTV, and they just play all sorts of great reruns and everything. Well, they just launched a whole new channel called MeTV Tunes, and they show some deep cut tunes. I mean, like Beetlejuice, the cartoon. There's Scooby Doo on at 6 p.m. Eastern every day, which makes me very happy. But they show Inspector Gadget, too.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
No, but instead of selling them, they said, hey, I've got an idea. Let's remove the automat and put Burger Kings in instead. There you have it. Franchises. So that's where you would have gotten your old automat cases is in the back of a Burger King.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
There's this one Burger King ad that keeps playing over and over and over again. I had to hit myself in the knee with a hammer to get it out of my head.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
That's like my oyster stew. Well, I guess I won't do a song right now. Actually, I know exactly why. Now we're even.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
So, yeah, I guess you can just if you can mute the TV fast enough, then you can keep watching me TV tunes.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
No, in those same families, they're like, oh, let's go down to the automat, step in, and they're like, oh, it's seedy here. So they stopped coming in, which just reinforced the ability of the homeless population to hang out in Horn and Hard Art. Horn and Hard Art's whole thing was serve everybody and serve everybody the same way. So as far as I ever saw, they weren't exactly rousting.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
vagrants who were hanging out drinking like a cup of coffee. And it just was basically the same story as the inner city in the United States in the 60s and 70s. Once the suburbs rose and everybody moved out of there and the neighborhoods and the communities that did survive had U.S.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
interstates built right through their neighborhoods, things just took a turn for the worse and the automat was not immune to that whole thing.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah. So the other thing, too, is it's interesting and I think it's kind of appropriate that Horn and Hardart got into fast food franchises because the automat kind of helped lay the foundation for that. But rather than hundreds of different dishes, which is apparently what Horn and Hardart offered at each of their automats.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Um, you know, fast food has like 10 and like, yes, you can have it your way, but really you can have it your way choosing from these five ingredients or whatever. Um, and the, the, there were much like downscale, um, like surroundings. It was just like the automats, um, vision with all of the glitz and idealism removed from it. Then you have fast food franchises.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
And I was like, this is actually a much better cartoon than I remembered.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
That's right. It's a Gap. What else? Hmm. So, like you said, if you went to New York, like you go to the Empire State Building, you might go see a Broadway play and you would go eat at an automat. That's just how iconic it was. Right. It popped up like any time you're trying to get across how New York your your your movie was like there would be a scene in an automat or something like that. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Francis Ford Coppola apparently directed a movie in the 60s that featured an automat called Automat Now. Um, that showed up in, I'm kidding. Uh, it showed up. I get it now. I'm a little slow. Hey, I think you're doing magnificent for considering what you've been through the last couple of days, man.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Um, Bugs Bunny went to an automat and the hair grows in Manhattan.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
And there's a book that I think I've heard of, but I'd never read from the mixed up files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Oh, no, I've got a really high-tech setup. I have hijacked the coaxial cables throughout my house, and I connected my outdoor antenna to the indoor cable feed so I can connect TVs throughout my house to get the reception from the outdoor antenna. Okay.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Well, the thing that sounds familiar to me is that these kids hide out living in the Met, the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
That's yeah. I guarantee that was an homage to that thing. Yeah. But anyway, in this children's book, these kids are runaways and they live in Met. That's the Met, right? The Met isn't the opera house. It's the art museum.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
OK, right. Well, one of the things that they do is they feed themselves by going to the automat.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Oh, yeah. Wes Anderson does not rip stuff off. He lovingly pays homage to it.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Andy Warhol, this is just what an artist he was. He could just talk about it. He just mentioned something in passing, and people are still talking about it 50 years later.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
But he said that he was going to come up with the chain of Andymats, which are like automats, but instead of having to go get your food from a case, you would sit down on like a red mohair banquette and order through a pneumatic tube. Yeah. And you would order frozen food and champagne. That's what he was going to offer at the Andy Matt.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
No, it didn't. But there's some people who are trying to revive it.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah, I'm sure that they do. I remember going to Toledo Hospital to visit my mom when she was at work, and they had basically automat sandwiches. I always just thought it was like a vending machine. Yeah, but no, it was an automat basically.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
One of the things you can choose for that pizza maker is, I don't want the cheese to scald the roof of my mouth. And the pizza machine's like, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, definitely not.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
That makes me feel good about the effect I have on you. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
There you go. Well, since Chuck's back on his feet again, obviously anyone who's ever listened to this show before knows that he just unlocked the listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah. So there you go. You don't need to just stream. You can also get free TV.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Mod Podge is what you use to glue together a big jumble of things that don't go together.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
That's great, Kelly. Thank you. And to the other thousand of you who wrote in, it's nice to know that there are people out there still using Mod Podge. It's fun. Yeah. I mean, it's fun to say. And it's got a cute label, too. Yeah. Mod Podge is really a lot of fun. I enjoy it. For sure. And we heard from Martha Stewart, too. She said, yes, I have Mod Podge laying around.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Well, if you want to be like who? Kelly. If you want to be like Kelly and write in to gently correct us, we love that kind of thing. You can send it via email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Thanks, Capital One bank guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Capital One N.A. Member FDIC. Well, it's officially too cold to do anything, Chuck. But the upside is that you can cocoon yourself in Bombas socks, slippers and underwear all winter long.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah, and Bama's knows that the little things really do make a big difference. So they removed all the itchy tags, fixed the annoying toe seam, and perfected the fit of everything. No more socks that slip down or underwear that rides up. Just perfect comfort.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
No, no. I don't have any announcements, but I do have a question for you.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
So try Bombas now. Head over to bombas.com slash S-Y-S-K and use code S-Y-S-K for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash S-Y-S-K. Code S-Y-S-K at checkout.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Oh, nice. Okay. Well, Chuck, then I think you would have enjoyed a trip to the automat.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah, your oyster stew. Blah. Yeah, but you would walk up and you'd just sit there with your finger like on your lower lip looking from case to case trying to figure out what appealed to you right then. Very much like you were looking at the menu, but you were looking at the actual food you were going to consume instead.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
So you didn't even need to be able to read to know what you wanted at an automat. And then, like you said, you put your money in and you'd get your food out and you'd go sit down. And to people who first went to the automat, Chuck, we're talking like this is the turn of the last century when they started to take off. This was as high tech as anything got.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Because it's really important to point out in like the first third, at least, of the 20th century, a lot of people in the United States didn't have a refrigerator. Right. They might have had an icebox, but they certainly didn't have anything pumping Freon through it.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
No, no cable TV. Not even over the air antennas in some cases. Yeah. No Beetlejuice the cartoon. And they also might not even have electricity in their home. So the idea of this futuristic serve yourself out of a glass case that's lit. Kind of experience was a really big deal.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
And what's even more remarkable is, so, okay, you're like, yeah, everybody in the 1910s was just a yokel by definition, right? These things lasted until the 1960s, and they were still viewed as these amazing places to go eat.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah, let's start at the beginning. That seems appropriate.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah, and it took a little college try, I guess, the first few times for it to make that leap across the Atlantic. And it was two guys, Joseph Horn and Frank Harder, whose last names have become synonymous with automats. In fact, depending on what city you were in, you would probably refer to the automat as a horn and hard art. They were like the Kleenex of automats, essentially, right? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
They were already in business together. They owned a chain of cafeterias in Philadelphia. And they said, what's next? What will the future bring? And they figured out the best way to predict the future was to build it themselves. And I think they actually made a trip to Germany and found out about the automats. And they decided they wanted to bring it back to the United States.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
And like I said, it took a few attempts for them to actually get it to work, right?
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Yeah. And so Horn and Hardart's automats, I think, like you said, started in Philadelphia. And then after Harcone went out of business, Horn and Hardart kind of muscled in on that market, which is actually pretty brave because somebody had already proven that automats may not work in New York. Right. Good point. But I guess they had faith in their food.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's not here, but Chuck is, and Chuck's new nickname is Poopy McGee. Actually, Pukie McGee. Not both?
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
They were like, have you tried this oyster stew? It's amazing. I've got to stop saying that. And so they hit New York, I think, in 1912. By 1932, 20 years later, they had 42 automats in New York City, another 20 in Philadelphia. And H&H became the largest restaurant chain in the entire United States. The United States was big at the time.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
They were also known because they were clean and safe and you could get really good coffee for a nickel. They became places where you would just go sit and rest your dogs or take a load off for a little while or catch your breath, whatever you wanted to do for a little while. And one of the reasons why...
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
people did that was because part of the allure of the automat was that there was no front of house staff generally. There were no servers, there was no maitre d', there was no manager. If there was a manager, they were in the back. So you didn't feel like hustled or rushed or like anybody was judging you for sitting there as long as you want, nursing a single cup of five cent coffee.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
And so like automats kind of got that reputation where you could just go chill out. And as big of a deal as they were in New York and Philadelphia, they actually didn't take off everywhere, even though people tried because Horn and Hardart were so successful.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
I mean, that's like that cereal. It's like a plain white box that says Bran Flakes in just black font.
Stuff You Should Know
How Automats Worked
Take a break so you can go throw up. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Thanks, Capital One bank guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply.
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See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC. Hey, everybody. It's Chuck and Josh here to talk to you about Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easy to build the website of your dreams and do whatever you like with it.
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Yeah, and when it's time to collect that money, Squarespace offers an easier way to collect payments so you can focus on growing your business. You can invoice clients and get paid for your services, turn leads into clients with proposals, estimates, and contracts, and simplify your workflow and manage your service business on one platform. What else could you possibly ask for?
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How Automats Worked
Grave danger, I would say. Like, it's Wednesday at 3, and we need an episode for tomorrow at 5 a.m.
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How Automats Worked
Yes. Well, Amazon understands, which is why they created Amazon One Medical and Amazon Pharmacy. They're designed to remove these pain points from health care. With Amazon One Medical, you get 24-7 virtual care so you can see a provider within minutes and avoid those long, annoying waits.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
And then there was also Micheline Paré, Galen Weiss, Pamela Darlington, Colleen McMillan, and Monica Ingus, and then Maureen Mosey. And again, all of them were killed between 1969 and 81 all along Highway 16. And a lot of them were hitchhiking as well.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too. And this is Stuff You Should Know. The man, this is a bummer edition.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yes. And from what I've read about him, Bobby Jack Fowler is the kind of scumbag that you wish you could go dig up and reanimate so you can punish him some more. He was terrible. And when the Canadian cops were like, hey, you guys had somebody incarcerated in your prisons to the officials in Oregon. who killed at least one girl here, but probably three total.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
You should probably look around at your own files. They started finding, I think they've said up to maybe 20 murders that they've pinned on Bobby Jack Fowler. Nothing they can prove, but it's just likely that he committed them. And he'll obviously never be convicted or tried for him because he's dead. But it just, it goes to show you like there are human beings out there who will,
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Just kidnap, rape and murder and just do it over and over again. And the easiest thing to do in the world is if you're going to do that kind of thing is take advantage of a very vulnerable population in a very sparsely populated area, which makes Highway 16 just like the perfect spot.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah, he hadn't heard of this, but that's apparently a fairly typical sting operation. They call him a Mr. Big operation where he's just introduced to successively higher up criminals in some organization, but they're all cops. And
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Um, the, the judge was like, no, the, the admission to, um, or confession to Catherine Mary Herbert's murder inadmissible, but he thought that he was basically convincing this crime boss to get him out of the, out of being tried or convicted for Monica Jack's murder. So they're like, that's totally admissible. He completely volunteered that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
But yeah, I mean, he, he went down for it, but like you said, he's the only living person who's ever been convicted for one of these dozens of murders.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah, and so all three of them were from Prince George, which is the easternmost town considered part of the Highway of Tears. And Cody was 19 when he killed the first of them, Jill Stacy Stachenko. He's not the youngest serial killer in Canadian history, but he too, like the other guys, was a scumbag and still is. He was sentenced to no less than 25 years, four times.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah, there's a lot of good sources. The CBC, the Vancouver Sun's a good one. There's been a decent amount of coverage, but it's not the kind of coverage you would get when, say, like a Caucasian girl goes missing, which we'll talk about. It's the kind of coverage about how this group of people have just been totally –
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
But it appears that his sentences are concurrent. So he's serving 25 years for four murders. And the judge reminded him that he could apply for parole as early as 15 years in. So that's four years from now that this guy might be able to get out after being convicted of murdering four, three women and a girl. I don't like that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah, so Brenda Wilson, Ramona Wilson's sister, she works for Caria Sicani Family Services. And she's the one employee of the Highway of Tears Initiative. And she frequently has to work for free because they just are like, we're out of money again. Wait till next quarter for the check to come in. And obviously she's extremely dedicated, but that's a kind of a par for the course thing.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Like just the funding is just not there. And if you follow like government funding, it usually goes to stuff that people care about or like a lot of people care about. So if you don't get funding, it's kind of a big slap in the face in addition to really tying your hands from doing the work you're trying to do.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah, because as the Canadian government has said many times and is recognized and apologized for, Canada's history of how they've treated their indigenous populations, like putting them in residential schools, apparently in the 60s there was a second wave of that kind of thing. But rather than residential schools, they took kids from their family homes and put them in with foster families.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
And so there was a lot of breakup of the culture and families in the indigenous tribes in the area. And as a result, like poverty began, violence really set in, deaths of despair like suicide and alcoholism and drug overdoses, and just an inability to deal. take care of themselves.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
basically left on their own to deal with something like this, that they have, they don't have the resources to deal with this. And it's just such a terrible story. The story is so much larger than this collection of murders. But at the core, that's what it comes down to, just women who were treated like disposable beings.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
And then you couple that reality with somebody coming to the police and saying, my daughter hasn't come home since Friday. And they're like, Friday, huh? What was she doing last? Well, she went to a party. Then she's probably just on a week-long bender. Just give her a few days. From all the stories I've read, I would say 90% of the family said that that was the first response they got from police.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Right, which obviously didn't foster any further trust with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. And I guess in response in 2018, the commissioner of the Mounties, Brenda Luckey, actually issued like a formal heartfelt apology for the problems that the families have been facing and the lack of support they've been getting from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Um, which has been few and far between, but I think when it does, when something like that does happen, it goes a long way. And I think the families are kind of like, okay, let's, let's get back to work with the Mounties again.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah. And there's a guy, a staff sergeant named Wayne Clary, who said, you know, we probably aren't going to be able to make any more arrests in these cases. That most of them are stranger on stranger violence. So there's basically no motive other than to sexually assault and kill. It's really hard to track somebody down, especially when you don't have many leads involved.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
So we're probably going to have to get used to the fact that these murders are going to go unsolved. But from what I was reading, there's a lot of families who are like, this wasn't a stranger. We know the guy who did it. He lives over there and they're not getting listened to. And then also there's a report from 2016, an analysis of 32 cases.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Did you see this part about where the police had said that there was no foul play in these murders of indigenous women? And this analysis is like, that's kind of a weird thing to say because some of them were found nude. Some of them had unexplained injuries. In some cases, the coroner contradicted the idea that there was no foul play.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
And the whole thing starts at the very earliest, as far as anyone knows, the first murder that's become part of what you call the canon of the Highway of Tears murders and abductions. Started in 1969, a woman named Lavinia Gloria Moody was murdered on Highway 16. And it went... Kind of went along like that for a while.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
And yet they have been logged as no foul play and therefore they're not being investigated because they're not considered murders.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah. Let's take our second break and we'll come back. How about that?
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
But no one had kind of put together this whole group of people and called it the Highway of Tears, and they wouldn't for years to come. But at the time, there was enough going on that they had coined this term the Highway Murders.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
OK, Chuck, so you said the magic word missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. It's a thing. And Canada launched an inquiry into that group. And some people in the Highway of Tears community gave testimony for it. They released a report in 2019, and they said, look, let's just cut to the chase here.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
It's not like Native American tribes were living in poverty and destitution and engaged in sex work and alcoholism and drug addiction before we Euro-Canadians came along and just completely disrupted their culture. So this is actually this...
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
problem of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, it's part of a larger, bigger picture, a history of being exploited and left vulnerable and not protected by the people who were supposed to protect them. This is not new.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
And by 1981, enough women and girls had been murdered or gone missing along Highway 16 that a group of Royal Canadian Mounted Police detectives from all over British Columbia and I think Alberta got together and decided to kind of compare notes and see if they could solve some of these unsolved cases.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah, there's reports that show like an actual correlation, like a man camp shows up, sexual assaults of Indigenous women goes up in the area too. And unfortunately, this part of northern British Columbia that the Highway of Tears runs through, that's like the central area for Canada's resource extraction. So there are a lot of man camps there and there's plenty more coming.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
So that in and of itself is a problem. And it's not just in Canada. Apparently, North Dakota underwent an oil boom back in the 2000 aughts. And as more and more people were brought in as laborers, sexual assault of indigenous women there went up, too, because they're also pretty vulnerable here in the United States as well.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah, and just a lot of people just don't have cars, and if you do have a car, it's probably being used by somebody else. I remember, what was that movie, Smoke Signals, I think? They talk about the res car, where it's just like a car everybody just kind of shares, and it just gets handed from person to person when you need it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
So yeah, hitchhiking is going to be a lot more convenient in some cases. Cell phone, you said also cell phone service is a big deal too, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah. And that was a big one of the 231 calls for justice that came out of that symposium in 2015. And for I mean, that's lightning fast if like for this kind of stuff that happened that that fast. So just two more to go, everybody. Let's get it done in 2025. Yeah, absolutely.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
There's also like a little bit of a certainly I wouldn't call it a tussle or anything, but there's a growing kind of disagreement on how to approach this up to basically, I guess, 2023. The approach was exclusively this is a horrific situation. This is tragic. This is super sad. And it doesn't need to be portrayed any other way. That's just what it is.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
And the Carrier Sakani Center, remember they run the Highway of Tears Initiative. They're like, what if we just kind of alter this a little bit? What if we make this more of a hopeful thing? For a very long time, there's some famous billboards along the Highway of Tears.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
It had pictures of three of the victims, Ramona, Delphine, and Cecilia, who isn't included in the canonical victims, but she was Delphine's cousin. They went missing within six months of each other. Um, and I think Cecilia has never been found again. Their pictures around this billboard and on the billboard, it said, girls don't hitchhike on the highway of tears, killer on the loose.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Well, um, that was helpful for years and years and years, but carrier Sakani's like, You know, there's a way that some people who don't understand our way of hitchhiking, why we do it, could possibly see that as like there's some sort of victim blaming in there. So what if we just kind of remove that and make this whole more hopeful message?
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
And they unveiled, I think, four billboards that kind of change things a little bit, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Right. Yeah. And I think the billboards coexist. And the critics of that were like, OK, these billboards can coexist. That's a great billboard. We're fine. But it was when they proposed, I think, yeah, Carrier Sakani proposed, hey, let's let's rename the Highway of Tears officially the Highway of Hope when activists and supporters like Gladys Raddick were like, no, no.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
We are definitely not there yet. A lot of these cases are not solved. There's not much traction still. Like, that's ridiculous and we're not going to do that. But hopefully someday it will reach that status, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
So until then, that's the Highway of Tears. Here at Stuff You Should Know, we say rest in peace to all the victims, and we hope peace can come to all their families who have to live with this and the ongoing frustration of not getting the help they need. And since I said all that, it's time for Listener Mail.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Very nice. That was a very mean email. Who is that, Mike? That's Mike. But I get your point, Mike, and I appreciate that because I've been studiously avoiding any mushroom supplement that has the word fruiting on it. So maybe I should just bite the bullet. I could put a piece of electrical tape over that part and just take the supplements as needed. Yeah, bite the mushroom.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
If you want to be like Mike and get in touch with us and turn my stomach, you can do that. Send us an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah, there was another woman who really deserves a lot of credit for bringing national attention to this. She's a Wet'suwet'en Nation woman. And in 1998, there was a vigil where she coined the term Highway of Tears, which I don't think you can really calculate how much that helped this case. It was like, hey, media, here's a nice little tidy package for you to report on.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah, we should tell people. I mean, the Highway of Tears is fairly famous. It's kind of been in the news and in pop culture, I guess, for a while. I guess at least since the 90s, but really in the early 2000s, I think, is when it picked up. Regardless, it is a stretch of desolate highway that runs in British Columbia, up in Canada, from the port city of Prince Rupert,
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
It's even got a catchy name. Despite, you know, the actual obvious emotion behind calling it the Highway of Tears, I think it really helped quite a bit. And Florence Nazeel also is credited with starting a walk that covered the entire, again, 450-mile stretch of the Highway of Tears for the first time. That walk's been made…
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Scores of times by now over the years by family members and community members and members of other nations who've gotten involved to try to, again, help ask for resources, ask to get the police involved more, because that's another recurring theme throughout this, Chuck, is that the police have shown over and over again, opportunity after opportunity to just not really seem to care.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah, and again, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police have been called to task time and time and time again for not taking this stuff seriously enough, not devoting enough resources to it. But also the media is largely responsible too, not just in this case, but in any case of a missing or murdered
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
woman who's not white in the United States or Canada, they get much less coverage and the intensity of the coverage is much less too compared to white women. And that's not just anecdotal. I was reading at least one study on it from 2016, I think, in the Journal of Law and Criminology. And they were like, yes, we analyze this stuff and it's absolutely true. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
So there's like a but there's a bitter gratitude involved because the death of Nicole Hoher, she like it did bring a lot of attention to this.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah. And you just can't you can't deny that. And so that's good. But at the same time, it's just like, man. Why does it take that, you know? We've been trying to deal with this for decades. And now this one white girl becomes part of the crowd of murdered girls. And, like, now people care. It's got to be really tough to take. And I know I called her a girl, and she was 25, so she was a woman.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
But there's, like, this whole group is made up of women and girls. I know it's not interchangeable, but it's important to say, like, some of these, I mean, the youngest victim was 12, Monica Jacks, who I think died in the late 70s, maybe 1978. Like, there are plenty of girls who were picked up and murdered. There are also plenty of women, too, but... And not all of them were indigenous.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
A lot of them were white. But the cops, as they started to get together, came up with some criteria that they applied to these cases that kind of narrowed the search, but also brought on new cases that they hadn't considered before, as we'll see.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
All the way into the interior to Prince George. And it's, I think, 720 kilometers, almost 450 miles. And it's known as Highway 16 officially. But the stretches of this highway are so desolate. so remote and so sparsely populated that it has become a haven for murderers who pick people up, mostly women, mostly indigenous women, on this road and either make them disappear forever or murder them.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
I think so. Whether they like it or not, everybody calls them Mounties.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
Yeah, and just one thing, Roxanne and Alicia, who also went by Leah, they were friends and also colleagues. They both were sex workers who were engaged in survival sex. Ramona, who was not engaged in anything like that, I think she worked at a restaurant or something, but Ramona, Roxanne, and Leah...
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
All were murdered in the same area between, Ramona was June, Roxanne July, Leah in December of 1994, I think. And all their cases, like, in this area, everybody's like, there's something going on. The cops are like, just give us 11 more years and we'll come together and come up with this new EPANA project. And right when they did, those three just stuck out immediately.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
It's like, there's some real commonalities here. They need to be investigated. Right. But like you were saying, those three criteria that they came up with from this ePANA project, you had to be female, you had to last be seen dead or alive within a mile of Highway 16, and then you also had to be involved in high-risk activities like sex work, but also hitchhiking.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
And we should say here, too, like for those of us who grew up in towns with bus service and cabs and you could walk places and get to where you're going easily or ride your bike, Like hitchhiking almost seems like frivolous. Hitchhiking is a way to live and survive and get to work in this area. It has been for decades.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
So it's not like I think you can view hitchhiking as like, man, why did you hitchhike? In a lot of cases, the women and girls who were picked up hitchhiking were trying to get to where they were going. Like they weren't like just hitting the road like they that was just part of daily life for them, unfortunately.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
And Ayala, I'm pretty sure that's how you say her name, she was the last one to be officially added. Like, as far as the Royal Canadian Mounted Police are concerned, she's the last Highway of Tears victim missing. Although, as we'll see, there have been plenty more who would qualify for sure. The problem is EPANA is very much underfunded and not basically not really operational right now.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
And it's endemic in this area so much so that it's caught national attention just how poorly this group of women are being treated and their families as well.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
So they're not adding people for that reason. But when they looked into this a little more, they basically went back to their credit and found that there was about 300 boxes of information and paperwork on all these cases. And so they're like, we can't get anywhere until we have all this stuff logged in some sort of database.
Stuff You Should Know
The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope)
So they created the database and they logged it and it took them like a year. But after they finally got all that stuff in, some of those older cases, the ones between 1969 and 1981, They started bubbling up toward the top and were eventually included, starting with that first one with Gloria Moody, also including Monica Jack.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
No. I've always heard it called the inner monologue, too, or internal monologue. But Anna helped us out with this, right? Yeah. Anna G. She points out that inner monologue is a pretty limiting term because that voice in your head, the way that you talk to yourself – it can take all sorts of different shapes rather than you having a conversation beating yourself up quietly.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
And then there's one that was initially called Calm Optimist, but Polchaska Waisel did a follow-up study testing to see if her initial results were confirmed. And Faithful Friend, Ambivalent Parent, and Proud Rival were all there again in the second one, but Calm Optimist didn't show up.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
So she ended up replacing that with something called Helpless Child, which apparently is probably the worst of the worst. All right. That's a lot. It is. It was a lot. Do you understand this anymore? Sort of. Okay, good. Well, we're making headway, Chuck.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Okay, Chuck, so one of the things we're talking about with inner speech is it's easy to kind of confuse it with, like, say, private speech where you're actually talking out loud to yourself. Somebody could hear it. But one of the big differences with inner speech and verbal speech is Is that it's just faster. I guess allegedly for some people. It's not for me.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Mine goes very slow and actually slows me down. It's like it goes slow. Yeah. The part of me that has to process the words slows down the speed that I could conceivably go at. Oh, okay. Yeah. It's like old Fernie Ho. It just kind of puts the brakes on everything. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
But normally, if you compare the two, it should be much faster just because a lot of times you're using condensed speech, which, you know, again, is you're just using shorthand that you can understand. I think that's where I get tripped up. I don't really do that.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
And then like physically, physiologically, it's just you can think a lot faster than you can speak because you're not moving your mouth. You're not like taking a breath or anything like that. It's just supposedly faster. Is yours faster?
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Those are kind of the keys to what we would call inner speech, or the people who research it would call it inner speech.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Yeah, that's at least twice as much.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Was that the guy from the Dunkin' Donuts commercials or the FedEx commercials in the 80s?
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
I'm not going to knock him down.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
So I guess then we reach another question. How does inner speech develop? Which apparently, when they started figuring this out, thanks to a guy named Lev Vygotsky, who we'll meet in a second, it completely changed our understanding of children. Because up to this point, it was like, do kids learn first? And then, or does their brain develop and then they learn first?
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Or do they learn first by, or do they develop their brain by learning? Clearly, I did neither at some point. You can kind of get the gist of what I was saying.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Right. And then they start to after that, they continue to develop and get good at things like condensed speech and create creating their own self shorthand and stuff like that. Yeah. It's pretty cool. So, again, I said that this kind of turned things on our head as far as understanding.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Piaget, who was a very famous French psychologist, he said kids are dumb and then they learn – or their brain grows and then they learn. And this showed the exact opposite, that they develop their brain and their understanding of the world through learning, through this inner dialogue. And it was Vygotsky, believe it or not, was a Soviet researcher –
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
So the West wasn't exposed to his ideas until, like, the 50s. And when they finally came out, were translated, it was like, great, okay, now we finally understand.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure what that is in Russian, but yes, apparently it translates to inner voice.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
It sounded Russian to me in my head.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
So it's a way to alleviate her anxiety? I guess. How interesting. That's cool. I've never heard of that. Yeah. Hey, man. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Emily is one of a kind.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Well, how is her air penmanship?
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Very neat. Wow. Can you really or are you just joking? No, no, no. Okay.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
All right. Nice. Too hot for TV.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Or no, don't have inner speech, right? Yeah. So that's just that's wildly different. It is wild. That's a great term for it again. Wild. So now Fernie Ho comes in and says, whoa, everybody, I'm not really excited about this having its own term, an endophagia. And and means lack. Endo means inner phagia speech because and I think he makes a reasonable argument here that.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
When you come up with a term, especially a Latin term, for something, a way people behave or think or whatever, it seems to suggest that this is a condition, maybe even a disorder. And he's like, that's not necessarily true, especially if the majority of people don't have this inner voice. So do we really need a name for it?
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
And I think Nettergaard and Lupien were like, it's a pretty cool name, though. Can we please keep it? And Fernie Ho is thinking about it right now. you
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Right. Yeah. Should we? Who are you? They have other things, though. Like, it's not like if you don't have an inner voice that there's no thought whatsoever. It can also come in different forms, I think, is what they're finding.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
The poor bastards. The thing is, though, is that seems to be, at least as far as they've discovered, really the only big drawbacks is you don't do well necessarily in memory tests or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
But even for somebody who isn't thinking in inner speech where they're talking to themselves, there's a voice in their head talking, there's other ways that you can think using what is basically some sort of inner voice. Well, inner speech is the best way to put it, but imagine that without speech, without language or words. There's inner seeing. Some people think in images. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Feelings, like just your emotions, which I'm kind of like, okay, is that... Does that get you in trouble if that's how you respond and move and behave from the world? Because that's one of the big things from inner speech is when what we do is we prepare ourselves and come up with a plan of action. What are we going to do next? How are we going to respond to this?
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Yeah, and it's really impressive that people are figuring out how to research this at all. It's a definitely developing field. It's not established quite yet. So it's kind of the Wild West in a lot of ways as far as, you know, psychology goes. But one of the reasons why it's fairly new is because people forever just thought, like, there are such things as inner voices.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
So if you're not thinking it over in your head and it's your emotions that drive you, like that just seems like it could get scary. Yeah. There's – Huh?
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Fraught. Exactly. Yeah. There's un-symbolized thinking. So you've got like, you're just not, you're not thinking like, okay, I need to get in that car. You just, I don't know. I don't know. I can't even give you an example here. And then the last one that they've mentioned is sensory awareness, which is just sensing things and then I guess responding to Essentially like an amoeba.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Like, oh, this stove is hot, so I'm going to move my hand. But imagine nothing in between the heat, the sensation of heat entering your hand and removing your hand. No thought whatsoever between that. That's apparently what sensory awareness is like.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Gotcha. That's pretty cool. I tested myself on this a little bit to find out what I do. Like I typically just think in words, I guess.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
A lot of times I talk to myself, but I think I don't know. I think there's a lot going on in there that I'm not cognizant of. I'm really bad at like how I feel and like just understanding, you know, what's going on in my head at any given time. Like really just introspecting. Like I do it a lot, but I'm not necessarily good at it is what I guess what I'm trying to say.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I can be like that too. See, I don't believe that one bit. I think you're a champion at that kind of thing. Well, maybe certain kinds.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
I appreciate you trying to make me feel better, but you're wrong about you not being good at it. So I tested myself to see if I could think in just images without words because I've never really thought about that. So some part of me told myself to think of a watering can. And I didn't hear it. It was just like it wasn't in words. I didn't hear it. No one spoke it. I didn't see it spelled out.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
It was just there was some command all of a sudden to think of a watering can. And all of a sudden a watering can came up. And the proof that I was not thinking in words is that I couldn't think of the word for what I was seeing. Oh, wow. Yeah. And then some other part of me came in and was like, you know, I think you were actually supposed to produce an image of a flower pot.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
And then I got worried about cognitive decline. And that's no joke. Like that was the whole process right there.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Yeah, I guess I didn't. It was more like not. It wasn't like I was saying, like, don't do this. It was more do this or try this. So because there wasn't like that blanket prohibition on not thinking about the word, it was easier to do. But just back to Ruby. So did you ask her if she has an inner voice or if she thinks in symbols or whatever? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
We'll never be able to study them because they are the definition of subjective. And like you said, self-reported tests are how they had studied them before. And that's just not super reliable. William James, the father of American psychology, had a quote. I'll paraphrase him.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Okay, do let me know. Text me.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Burn Josh. No, she loves you. I know. I love her, too. I think she's sweet.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Hey, did she, no, did she like Magdalena Bay? She did. Did she really? I just figured that she hadn't and you were just not mentioning it. No, I thought I texted you back.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Well, I'm glad I was right. For some reason, every time I heard it, I would just be like, Ruby would really like this. That does not happen every time I listen to something. So I thought I should just say something.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
She's great. Is that a place, too, or are you joking?
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Man, you're getting me all over the place today.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Even in your head, it doesn't.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
He basically said like trying to study something like inner speech is like turning up the lights to get a good look at what the dark looks like. You can't do it was the end of his speech. Yeah. Oh, boy. That makes a lot of sense. It does. I've heard another one, too, that I love. Studying consciousness is like trying to use a flashlight to find the shadows.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Ooh, that's a good one. That's a good one, too. What was Spud's McKenzie party animal? Two words. That's all you need to know.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Well, that kind of leads us to the purposes of inner speech a little bit, right? I mean, talking about it clearly helps connect people, but there's things that we gain from talking to ourselves or just being able to do that. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Right. Yeah. And also, I mean, executive functioning, like making decisions, figuring out the best solution to a problem by simulating them, like thinking through your actions before acting, which also oftentimes ties into emotional regulation. All of this uses some sort of like inner voice, inner speech, inner hearing is another way that you can experience it.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
That's an enormous role because that's essentially how we navigate life as adults.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
You know, it's not exactly tied to what you're saying, but what you were mentioning before, like how you were planning out which action to do next for cooking and then the one beyond that. I realized that's why I had to stop playing video games because I would walk around thinking about how to do it better next time. Oh, interesting.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Yeah, that's a great way to put it. I think another way to say it is we don't understand it, so those listening to this episode aren't going to understand it by the end of it either.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Even when I wasn't playing the video game and realized this is no way to spend my mental energy. Like, it's one thing to just sit down and relax and play a video game. And if that was it for me and I could leave it there, I would totally play video games still. But I just couldn't leave it there.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Do they still call them video games? It feels really 80s or 90s. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
I heard that in a magazine.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Okay. I'll watch my steps then. Nothing wrong with that.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Not with a German accent, an American, but yeah. So also deaf people apparently, and I would guess especially if you were deaf from birth, they see or think in sign language. So they visualize the word but through signs. Yeah. So cool. That is super cool. And then other people can actually they might envision someone like their face. So they're reading their lips.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
But they're not hearing anything. I just think that's just fascinating. They also don't speak it themselves.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
There was also in that same Guardian article with the woman who was featured with the Italian couple bickering in her head. There was a dude, man, I can't find his name anywhere. But he, I think, is the hero of this entire story, Chuck.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
His name is Justin Hopkins. I found it. Oh, okay. He has this, what he basically calls an island in a sea of void. And the island is his mind. And his mind turns on when it needs to. So an example, because I don't fully understand how this guy, how his mind works. But the best I can say is he realizes that he's out of milk. So he needs to go buy milk. So he buys milk. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
But imagine that being the extent of it. So he needs to buy milk and he goes and buys milk and he puts the milk back in his refrigerator and then he doesn't have another thought until the next thing that comes along. He said that he can go hours without a thought.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
And so he can just sit in front of a sunset and enjoy the sunset in the most basic way that you can enjoy a sunset and just not be thinking about all the problems he has or what he has to do next or how to most efficiently watch the sunset. And this guy is like... I wouldn't want to necessarily live like that all the time because I do enjoy having like an inner life.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
But to just be able to modulate it and do that once in a while, I think that guy's amazing. And apparently in the Guardian article, they said that he says he sleeps like a baby, which I could totally imagine.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
So, OK, OK, I'm I'm fascinated by this. Like, give us an example of how your brain starts just becoming nonsensical or speaking gibberish or whatever that you can recognize you're starting to drift off. Like what?
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
And then like, yeah, but a lot of times you can just experience it and not note it and just fall asleep.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Man, that's amazing. I've never heard of that. It's very hot. That's pretty cool.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Yeah, there you go. Full circle, I guess, in that sense. Yeah, it's not a very satisfying one, but yeah. So like we said, inner monologue is a little too limiting. We don't want to use that. Inner speech is way better. And inner speech is actually a little limiting, as we'll see, too. But it turns out there's a lot of
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Yeah, I think that's that's I was going to say, like, I know we've been talking about ourselves a lot, but part of part of it for me is like, you know, I want to hear from people saying like, yeah, absolutely.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
OK, well, one other thing before we go. There was a tweet, what's become kind of a famous tweet from a few years back, I think in 2020, where somebody just basically said some people have an inner voice and some people don't. And it revealed this commonality among people. If you don't really have an inner dialogue, monologue, inner speech, whatever, you just assume no one else does either.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
And if you do have it, you just assume everybody has it. And it was really kind of eye-opening to people to find, like, that's not the case at all. It's basically a spectrum.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Well, you got anything else?
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Okay. It is parked. And since we just parked it, as everyone who has been listening to the show from the outset knows, we've just unlocked Listener Mail. Ding.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
It's like a hot dog place, very famous in Toledo, and then Jamie Farr made it famous on MASH.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
I don't think they've let us sign the hot dog bun, but I appreciate the thought, Alex.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
No, there was a listener years back who was trying to get us, actually, the key to the city, and I don't think it went anywhere.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
well you should get a key to toledo i should get a key to stone mountain georgia you should sign a hot dog bun and i should sign uh like a stone mountain plus also we should have the hot dogs while they're there because alex ain't lying they're really good and i have to say if you're ever in toledo or apparently dayton columbus cleveland and you aren't in the mood for a hot dog but there's a tony paco's nearby go get the stuffed cabbage because it is top
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
things that our inner speech does besides, like you demonstrated, beating yourself up. It can be used to motivate. That's a good one. You kind of did that at first, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
notch like you wouldn't think this hot dog place why does it have stuffed cabbage well because it's a Hungarian place and it is really good like really good okay I'm just going to say it again it's really good stuffed cabbage what's it stuffed with love magic I'm guessing three kinds of meat probably awesome it is it is very good well thanks a lot Alex it's always nice to hear from a fellow Ohioan I'm guessing
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Yeah. And if you want to be like Alex and write in and tell us about something we love, like Tony Paco's or whatever, you can send us an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Right. We use it for memorizing things, problem solving. We use it to regulate ourselves. Like, okay, Chuck, don't be mean to yourself. Calm down. Yeah. That kind of stuff. But again, not out loud. And then even more, not me saying it. Because, dude, if your voice in your head was my voice, I would be so sorry for you. I dream as you. Is that weird?
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
I'd like to hear more about that, though, later on.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Ferneyhough is what I saw or what I heard, yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Right. What you can't see is the giant furry purple monster with googly eyes and a tiki drink. Oh, man. That'd be great. So, yeah, dialogic seems to be fairly common, too. There's also condensed inner speech. It's kind of like a different form of... So this, okay, here's one of the things that I had trouble with, Chuck. Let me just be forthright here.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
There's not any neat package of there's this kind, this kind, and this kind, and then there's this subkind of this kind and this kind and this kind. No one's put it together like that, so it's a little confusing. So, for example, dialogic inner speech. You'd think that the next thing would be monologic or something like that. That's not here.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Instead, we're talking about condensed inner speech, which is using, like, abbreviations or— like just words rather than full sentences, and that this is a way that you speak to yourself in a very private manner that you would probably never use to speak out loud. It's just the kind of shorthand that you use for yourself. Doesn't fit this list at all, and yet here we are.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Right, but at the same time, you could be having a conversation with somebody about phone, keys, wallet. So it would be dialogic condensed inner speech. Drives me nuts.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Right, for sure. Like, you're the bystander, basically. There's two people talking. Did you see that Guardian article that included the woman whose inner voice was like a stereotypical Italian couple fighting, arguing? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
And that's how she works stuff out. Like the wife would be like, no, she needs to quit her job and follow her dreams. And the husband would be like, no, she's got a good job. She needs to keep her feet on the ground. And like eventually one would win the argument and then that's what she would do. That's what that lady's inner voice is like.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Yeah. And I saw that that was kind of expanded or changed or kind of cut into subcategories later on or at some point. There's evaluative critical, which is basically like, you know, did I do a good job or why didn't you get 100 percent? That kind of thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
There's also positive regulatory, which kind of ties into what you were just saying. Like, if you imagine yourself, you know, doing really well, practicing shooting baskets, there's some part of you that could be like, keep up the hard work and you'll be in the NBA in no time. Or you did a great job. Like, those would fall under positive regulatory.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Nice. I was going to say, I was waiting for you to say brick because that's what I hear.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Very smart. Boy, you know what you're doing, don't you?
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Yeah, it's the opposite of condensed speech. Like you're thinking in or hearing in your inner voice the exact words with the phonetics and the grammar and everything that you would say out loud. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
I think your reference copy probably.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Reverberating Skull is a great album name.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
So what you're engaged in, Chuck, is called private speech.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
There's now we reach a point of the list where coherence starts to emerge. We've got like basically like a one and then the opposite. I don't know why I just put it so confusingly. So let's just start. There's elicited or prompted, which is inner speech that's basically triggered by some external factor. Someone comes along and says, here's some pictures of different stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Pick out the ones whose names rhyme. So you've got a boot and then a, I don't know, a foot or something like that. Like you would pick out the boot and the foot. And depending on how liberal they were with their judgments, they would say, yes, that rhymes.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Like that is your genuine, true inner voice. Sometimes it just comes out of nowhere. Sometimes when you just are talking to yourself and don't even realize you're talking to yourself in your head. Like that's what Herbert Herbert calls pristine. And there's this really great Aon article about your inner voice that was written by Phil Jekyll. J-A-E-K-L.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
That's still private speech. No way you're going to do a good job. Oh. As long as we can hear you and you're talking to yourself, that's great. Oh, yeah. I get it now.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
And Phil points out, I'm hoping I can, we're on first name basis, me and Phil. But he points out that this is leading psychologists to be like, oh my God, oh my God, if we can study pristine inner voices, like that's essentially like the external, the exterior of the unconscious. And we would be tapping into people's unconscious.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
And other people are like, I think Fernie Ho is like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Let's just kind of take this one step at a time. Old Fernie Ho, that's what he's known as. They call him the Brakes.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Is it the parent of a Gen Xer or a Gen Xer as a parent? I'm confused.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Yeah, I would think so. Sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Inner Dialogues, Monologues and Stone Cold Silence
Right. That's not ambivalent. So here is another problem with this field. People are naming stuff just way off. Yeah. Way off. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And it's hard to remember and understand this stuff if the pieces don't fit together because they're dripping. You know what I mean?
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
So unlike some other things, disaster films are one of those things you can explore and find that there's an actual beginning. And it's not like this thing developed over time. There were disaster films because there's these definitions, these characteristics that you have to have. There were films along the way that just happened to have those. And the first one was Deluge from 1933.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Where if you watch it, there's several minutes of New York City being destroyed by a tsunami. And it's pretty impressive for 1933. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah, you put an exclamation point at the end of a natural disaster or a force of nature in your set.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yes, but it's also apparently people break into song in it here or there, so it's sometimes listed as a musical drama. There's another one called Old Chicago about the 1871 Chicago fire that came in 1938. Titanic apparently was a favorite subject of early disaster films and actually stayed that way over time. But it wasn't until nuclear anxieties really started to develop as the Cold War picked up
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah, we are going to go to the movies, Chuck. And in particular, a specific kind of movie that the more I dug into, the more I realized is one of my favorite types of movies.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
And it was reflected in movies that people started imagining what would happen if all these nuclear weapons went off. Yeah, that actually kind of created the first crop of what you could really point to as the earliest disaster films.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Sure, for sure. What else? There's the day the Earth caught fire. Not a good day. No. That kind of wondered what would happen if a couple of nuclear bomb tests that happened to be carried out simultaneously by the U.S. and the Soviet Union, what would happen?
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
And they said, oh, well, probably the Earth's axis would be shifted and we would be knocked out of orbit and we would start heading toward the sun. That is cut and dry disaster plot.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
It is a great title. And then, of course, The Birds, an undisputed disaster film.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Well, that's a great question because is a zombie apocalypse that a handful of survivors have to survive and negotiate? That's an ongoing disaster. You have a group of people from different walks of life, sometimes stereotype, coming together. Their lives intersect through this disaster. And then they have to survive. Some people do. Some people don't. There's a hero.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah, disaster movies. I had no idea. But remember we were talking, this whole thing was kicked off by me watching The Day After Tomorrow a couple weeks ago.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
I mean, in that sense, Night of the Living Dead definitely qualifies. World War Z would qualify. Nope. Yeah, I think that there's like a I mean, there's room for debate there. Like those could also be horror monster movies, too.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
No, it's great. It has a great plot, great acting, great dialogue, and then the action sequences are unbelievable. I've got to check that out then. It's a really good movie. Again, is it a disaster movie? If you add Godzilla, I don't know. It could make it a monster movie. Let's see what Chuck says. Chuck?
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
I tried to watch that the other day, and the animal torture, I could not get past, man.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
And I was like, yeah, it's one of my favorite movies. And the reason why is because I love disaster movies. Love them.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Well, I stopped the movie and went and looked it up. Like, did they actually kill this monkey and these rats?
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
And no. Luckily, they did not. And the ASPCA was on hand and signed off on it. But what they did was they suffocated it with carbon dioxide until it passed out. Oh, God. And then the moment it passed out, they cut and then they revived it. But that monkey was still suffering from asphyxiation during those moments where they filmed it. It's awful.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Well, when the monkey dies, if you look closely, before they cut, there's a shadow of somebody moving toward it already.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
So I think they used a little tiny oxygen mask to revive it.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
But it's, yeah. I mean, that makes it a little better in that they didn't kill him, but they still tortured him. So I couldn't finish that movie.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah. So, okay. Yes. You said we started off with Andromeda, right?
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
That's as far as I could tell, unless I would qualify or include Attack of the Killer Tomatoes as a disaster spoof. And I'm not sure if that came out before or after Airplane.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
And so that really caught the attention of the studio bosses. They're like, let's do that again. And like you said, there were three sequels to it. This is probably one of my favorite movie franchises. I would make the case that the sequels, at least the first two sequels, are better than the original. I didn't see any of these. They're so great. I watched 77 and 79 in the last 24 hours.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Oh, really? I love them so much. And Airport 75 is probably the best of the bunch.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah, for sure. And then that Concorde, the Airport 79, the Concorde, it's people keep shooting missiles at it. They have to take like evasive action. And you're like, OK, this is definitely when the genre really started to die or died. It had already started. But one of the one of the big things that Airport kicked off, in addition to eye popping box office returns, was
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
was that huge cast of, like, where you recognize every single person. I mean, if you were alive at the time and an adult at the time, you would recognize everybody in there. Sometimes there were cameos. And what they were following, Airport was based on a novel by Arthur Haley, and he had written Hotel.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
One of his things was a ton of different characters whose lives kind of intersect in this issue or this problem or this disaster.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
So basically, Arthur Haley, the novelist, inadvertently invented the disaster film through like his format.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Right. And as time went on, the stars got a little schlockier. Yeah. In Concord, Charo makes a hilarious one-minute cameo.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
J.J. Walker is one of the major, minor characters.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
I think in Earthquake, which we'll talk about in a second, Walter Matthau makes this inexplicable cameo a few times where he's dressed like a 70s pimp with a curly wig and everything. And he's drunk out of his mind. Wow. That's his character. Like they were definitely known for cameos. But yeah, those sweeping, huge casts of generally A-list and then former A-list stars.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Okay. All right. Well, yeah, we'll get into that because it is a subgenre of action. And that makes a lot of sense. Disaster movies are packed with action. And there are some that are like, okay, this is definitely a disaster film, like The Towering Inferno.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
That was a big hallmark of disaster films that came around in the 70s.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yes, I can't remember. I think he might have been in The Towering Inferno.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yep, and it's a bunch of different people who are stereotypes from different walks of life who are led out to safety by an everyman, in this case a priest named Gene Hackman. That's not the character's name, that's the actor's name. That'd be pretty coincidental that Gene Hackman played a character named Gene Hackman.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah, upsetting is definitely a good word for it.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
You should probably try to. I think that would be for the best.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
That's like a prestige disaster film. They played it straight ahead. There's no schlock to it. The cast was just amazing. And they did something that would be picked up again in like the 90s and then today's disaster films where they had two heroes who kind of had to work together. One was Paul Newman, who played the architect of this 135 floor skyscraper.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
Just totally fictional at the time, especially.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
And then Steve McQueen was this fire chief, and they had to work together to figure out how to get the people out of this building and quench the fire.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
Not really. Maybe Paul Newman and Robert Redford?
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Okay, so, yes, if you see one disaster movie, see The Towering Inferno.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Okay, but then there's also movies like Speed, and Speed checks off a lot of the boxes. Yeah, not a disaster movie, though. You would not call it a disaster movie, even though it really could. If you really wedged it in there, it would qualify. But there's just a couple of little things that are different that make it definitely an action movie.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
So earthquake did not really mean to be schlocky. It just kind of ended up being schlocky. They did a great job of doing it unintentionally. And it wasn't the film that like led to the end of the 70s boom, but it was definitely one of the early signals that this is not this party is not going to last forever. And it's a good movie. I watched it last night. No, I watched it early this morning.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Oh, man. And Charlton Heston, who's a regular in these disaster movies, he did great. Everyone did really good in it. It was just some of the premises and then also some of the special effects. Like, there's a scene where the earthquake tremors are rocking the street in L.A. Yeah. And they're just pushing over the facades. So you can see that it's just this cardboard facade coming down. Yeah.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
Stuff like that. And then there's a very famous elevator scene.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
It drops like all the way down, killing everyone inside. But the way they show the impact is they just freeze the frame and then some animated blood splatters across the screen for some reason.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Right. Yeah, it is definitely. But OK, you want to take a break now and come back and talk about the end of the 70s or push on through until the 90s?
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Okay. Sounds good. So like I said, uh, it was kind of clear fairly early on that this wasn't going to last forever. And it definitely did not make it out of the decade. It really kind of came to an ugly end starting around 1978. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
So are the people on the roller coaster like having to go on it or stay on it over and over again like it can't stop or something like that?
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
And then you have other ones like The Birds, Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah, I got you. And then there's flood with an exclamation point. Shout out to Laura who helped us with this, who came up with this list of lazily named disaster movies, kind of like they were phoning it in.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
All right. I'm going to watch that one, though.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
But a lot of people who think about this kind of stuff point to The Swarm from 1978 as the one that was like, yeah, this is over. Not only was this over, but Irwin Allen's career was over because he had not one, not two, but three disaster film flops from 1978 to 1980, and that really ended the boom.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
It ends up on lists. It's part of the animal attack subgenre of disaster films, which is a subgenre of action.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Right. And the bees take down an Air Force helicopter. Of course they do. And the way that they're overcome is somebody figures out how, I think it's Michael Caine leading the cast. He's the hero. He figures out that they can lead these bees out to an oil slick in the ocean and then set the oil slick on fire and no more bees.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Okay, fair enough. But I was reading a criticism of that movie by Tyler Sage, I think on a site called Ultimate Classic Rock, of all things. And Tyler Sage says that the cast seems either faintly embarrassed by the proceedings or confused about what's supposed to be actually happening. Yeah. I mean, that's all you need to know. Like, that's not supposed to happen in a movie, you know? Yeah.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah, and that was Michael Caine, too, but also Sally Field, Telly Savalas, Peter Boyle. And, like, if your cast like that can't keep a movie, like, make it good, then there's something really wrong with it.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
I almost did, and then I was like, no, Josh, do not say that.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah. The eruption, when it finally comes, is a wonderfully cheesy amalgam of wobbly back projection, bathtub tidal wave, and scared expressions from the cast. Oh, man. So then because of all this, because these movies just got worse and worse, but then also like the high drama that was played straight, it was just ripe for parody. And like you said, Airplane was the one that,
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
You really don't need to mention any other parody. It's it as far as disaster film parodies go. It just completely captured it perfectly.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
For sure. Okay. I think we've made it to the end of the 70s. The first real disaster boom has come and gone and things quiet down throughout the 80s. And we'll let you think about this quietly through this ad break.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Right. And because of that, I looked everywhere on the Internet to try to cobble together this list of like basically the basic defining characteristics of disaster films. Yeah. And it was hard. Nobody's ever sat down and said, here they are. Some people have kind of piecemeal, but people don't talk that much about disaster films, which I find sad. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
I don't know. I think some more are going to come to the fore over the coming years.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
It could only have been one of just a few movies because... I can't remember what it was, yeah. This whole, this 90s disaster boom started and peaked within a two-year period. And it got started off, you could say in retrospect, it was started off by Outbreak, which came out in 1995. It's an epidemic disaster movie.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Most people don't point to that and say that kicked it off. It's more like they say Twister or Independence Day in 1996 kicked it off. And then, yes, you would definitely lump outbreak into it. But it was probably one of those two movies.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Well, okay. So even if you accept, not with an A, but an EX Independence Day from this list, then you still have Twister.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
I remember the entire country was talking about Twister.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah. And I mean, it's a really good movie. Bill Paxton's amazing in it. Helen Hunt does great, too. Like, it's a good movie. And one of the reasons I think that it did kick off that second boom in disaster movies was that you could take the disaster formula but then apply emerging CGI, computer-assisted special effects, right? That were at the time, it was like, holy cow, we can do this now.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Like the White House being blown up by the alien ship in Independence Day. Like you just had not seen stuff like that before. This was all very new. And they were using it sparingly enough, too, that it didn't look fake anymore.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
And I'll just put this article on there and that'll be that.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
I don't think people have written enough about disaster movies for anyone to name it. So call them, call them what you want.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
There you go. He was the Hoffman of the movie and maybe one of the first.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah, it was sad. So one of the other things, too, that fueled this 90s resurgence of the disaster boom is that these movies, some of them, Titanic, Independence Day, Twister, they're among the highest grossing films of all time. So just like in the 70s, studios were like, we can spend lavishly on a production, but we're still going to make back 10 times or more what we put into it.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
So they're like, good, let's start making disaster films. And very quickly after some of these really creative original disaster films, you could see in theaters virtually at the same time disaster films about the exact same topic. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
No, they weren't. I don't. Was Volcano with Tommy Lee Jones? Is that the one?
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah. And Dante's Peak was Pierce Brosnan and Linda Hamilton.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
And that's a really good example of like just how disaster films like minimize women and their contributions. Linda Hamilton was well known by this time as a female action star. Yeah. Like she was in the Terminator movie. She was a total B.A. Yeah. Sarah Connor. Right.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
And but in in this movie, apparently she's she's like a single mom who's totally dependent on Pierce Brosnan to help her and her kids. She's like she whimpers at times like.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
That's just one of the big problems with the genre. Like, if you can just kind of hold your nose and make it through stuff like that, then you can enjoy them. But if you focus on things like that, you're probably not going to like disaster films.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
So far, these ones you're shouting out sound like riff tracks candidates. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Wow, that's some 90s casting. Minnie Driver and Christian Slater, that screams 90s pretty hard too.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
But like you said, there's one other thing. The 90s definitely contributed to the hero scientist where it wasn't necessarily some, you know, tough dude. It was the guy who had the smarts to figure out how to deal with this or knew what was coming. That's another trope from disaster films, especially now. Usually the hero is the only one who can see the impending disaster. No one will believe him.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
And then he ends up having to save everybody else's Tokus because no one believed him and didn't take any measures to thwart the disaster from happening.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yes. There's overlap. Nobody said you can pin down disaster movies pretty easily.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Right. It can also be a government official very frequently. They get their comeuppance pretty commonly in 90s on disaster movies.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
I've seen it listed. Yeah, I guess it could be. To me, it's just a straight-ahead action film.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Like, you would say all the people in Nakatomi Plaza, that's a disaster to them. Yeah. The world's going about its business as usual, but to them inside, they're in the midst of a disaster. They have to survive. I don't know. I think just, I don't know. I think, so the same thing with Speed. In Speed, Keanu Reeves, the hero, was a SWAT member, right?
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Right. Die hard. John McClane, he's a cop. Even though he's off his beat, he's still a cop. Like the hero has to be some sort of every man who may or may not possess some special sort of skills or knowledge that help him overcome this problem. And then his medal that he may not even have known that was there is tapped and he leads other people to safety. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
There's like extraterrestrials, a big one. It can be an alien attack. It can be a comet or an asteroid headed toward Earth. Yeah. Transportation is huge. Yeah. People love screwing up like cruise ships and trains and boats and airplanes. Love it. And then one of the other things about it, too, the disaster is ongoing, right?
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Clear. Yep. What was it, 2003? So, yeah, the very next year was The Day After Tomorrow. And that, to me, is the bridge between the 90s disaster films and the ones that kicked off in the 2010s.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
It is awesome. It's got a great cast. The scientists are the heroes. There's a bunch of different stuff going on. The world is being threatened. There's amazing special effects of things just going haywire. There's wolves. There's wolves, yep. And then that scene of the tsunami flooding New York, there's a shot that's the exact same shot in deluge of the tsunami coming to New York.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
So I've read that it was probably an homage to that.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yes. No, but I mean, do you remember living in that time where people were actually like a little nervous about it? It was like Y2K light.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah. And if I remember correctly, we told everybody it's totally fine. The Maya calendar doesn't actually say the world's going to end because a new calendar starts.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Not a great movie. I watched that one yesterday, too.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Oh, I liked it a lot. I think to me, and I know you know this, but to me, 2012 is basically up there with the towering inferno as far as the best examples of a disaster film go.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Did you, like me, detect a note of hostility when the medical examiner pulls Gwyneth Paltrow's face like roughly off of her skull during her autopsy?
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
It seemed like that was gratuitous. Like Soderbergh had a problem with Gwyneth Paltrow.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Oh, maybe so. Yeah. That was a really good movie, too. And that would be an example of some of the highbrow ones that started to come out in 2010. Like we said, The Impossible. There was a Korean one called Pandora that came out in 2007 about a nuclear meltdown. Sully. about Captain Chelsea Sullenberger's landing in the Hudson River where not one person died. I didn't see that one.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
So it's not like the people survive a five-minute earthquake and then the rest of the movie they all go out to dinner and everything's fine. They spend the rest of the movie negotiating all the problems that that disaster created. So they're negotiating sub-disasters. Or it can be like an ongoing disaster, like a flood or something like that. Like, that can happen the entire movie.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah. Yeah, he was in every single movie that was out at one point, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
So one of the other things that the 2010 onward disaster films did was at the very least the studios figured out like, hey, these are kind of like easily translated internationally. And we don't mean the dialogues translated easily, although it definitely is.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
And because everything's so morally cut and dried, people anywhere can get what they're seeing, even though it's an American-made film about Americans. But also in these movies that are like a worldwide catastrophe, you have the opportunity to take down landmarks all over the world. So in France, they can see like the Eiffel Tower going down. They're like, woo, France, you know? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
And then one of the other things, too, is because of these huge all-star casts, you can easily cast foreign actors or actors who are really big in the country they hail from, and that'll up the box office, too, in that country.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
I didn't see it in theaters, though. I think if I had paid 20 bucks to see it, I probably would have been upset.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
I had an idea or a thought that I wanted to share, Chuck.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
About the 2010s boom. Okay. It didn't burn out in one decade. They're still making straight-ahead 2010s-style disaster films. And I was thinking that the reason why is because there's so many more studios now putting out so many different types of movies now. that it hasn't become a glut of so-so movies.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Or even if there are so-so disaster movies, there's still room to make other good ones rather than just three or four studios going all in on disaster films for the same few years.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Exactly. There's a wider variety. So it's been allowed to just kind of continue on. And in my opinion, it's gotten better. Like Leave the World Behind was really good. The Wave, a Norwegian one that came out in 2016, was like highly acclaimed. Don't Look Up. Did you see that? The satire from Adam McKay? Yes, I did. It was pretty good, actually. I liked it a lot.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
But it's it satirizes government and people not taking climate change seriously. But it's a disaster film, but it's not a parody of disaster films.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
It uses disaster films to satirize that stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Okay. Great. Well, since Chuck agreed to see some movies that I thought he should see, we've unlocked listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
But one way or another, the entire movie takes place over some sort of disaster and all of its after effects.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
My mind is coming apart at the seams right now, Chuck.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yes, hello, and happy travels to you guys, and hats off to your dad, too, for knowing Morgana the Kissing Bandit.
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Yes, this message brought to you by John Ritter. If you want to be like John and get in touch with us, you can send us an email. Send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
Oh, that's a good point, too. Yeah. Sometimes there's a lot of lead up to it.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah, on one end of the spectrum, the world can actually be ending. That could be the premise. Or, like you said, a little tunnel collapse. The rest of the world's just going on business as usual. Exactly. Let them die. Like that guy in Airplane. I don't remember that. What happened? There was like a debate TV show like on the news or something like that.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
And one was like, we need to take better care of people in the FAA has to step it up. And the other guy was presenting counterpoint. He was like, I say let them die. Oh, my God. It's way funnier in the movie.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yes, and you teased something just now. Some people will definitely not survive. One of the things about disaster movies is all you have to do is basically see one. And the next one, maybe you don't even need to see a second one. You can pick out very quickly who's going to die, who's going to live. And the reason why is because stereotypes are pervasive in disaster movies.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Like, you have, like, the dumb brawny guy or, you know, a smart scientist. Damsels in distress. Like, to this day, disaster movies are sexist. I could not come up with a single disaster movie where the hero was a woman. Not a single one in all the decades of disaster movies. It's men... Most of the main characters and leads are men. Yeah.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
And the woman is basically there to essentially be saved and maybe help out some.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Right. So, you know, very quickly who the hero is. But there's also plenty of other people you're like, I think they're going to live. And you can really kind of cut them into three moral categories, good, bad and redeemable. And redeemable can be like the guy's ex-wife's new boyfriend who you hate, but really he actually turns out to be a good guy.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
He probably dies, but he'll die a good noble death. He could also not die and become like a sidekick. And then there's like the shady rich people, often the people who are who are responsible for the disaster through like their greed or something like that. You know, they're going to die a very bad death. And the point is, is like it's a really simplistic way of looking at humans.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
And I think that's one of the reassuring things about it that make them enjoyable.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah, there's usually about as many black characters as there are women characters in disaster movies. Yeah. But like you said, similarly, they're often the president, like Morgan Freeman or Danny Glover or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah, for sure. But I heard the reason, you know, he wears those diamond studs in his ears all the time.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
I heard the reason why it's an old pirates thing where you wear some sort of jewelry or whatever so that if you die away from home, you have enough currency or value or something on you to pay for your funeral.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah, it makes you want to vote for him even more, huh?
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah. Whatever speech he's delivering, it would be really smooth.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah, they weren't even astronauts for Pete's sake.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
As a matter of fact, I'm not entirely certain I've ever seen Armageddon.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
You just described almost every single disaster movie ever made and the response to your judgment of it. Almost every single disaster movie ever made. Like they don't get you to jump off the couch at the end and scream Bravo or encore. You know what I mean? You just kind of like them. They're just kind of fun.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
So within these the structure, these constrictions, people have learned over the years how to kind of play with them and make it make new forms of disaster films. And a really good example, I think. So we said that either a big disaster affects tons of people or a small disaster affects a little amount of people.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Something that kind of combines the two is Leave the World Behind, an Ethan Hawke movie. I don't know that one. Oh, it's great. It was on Netflix. Okay. Ethan Hawke and Julia Roberts. So basically, there's a cyber attack that just causes civilization to essentially collapse. But we're just following like two families who are kind of having to figure out what to do and what's going on and all that.
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What Makes Disaster Films Great
Yeah, it was definitely worth seeing. And then other ones, rather than having kind of a schlocky humor that really started to develop in the late 70s and then kind of turned into like quips, I guess, in the 90s. Yeah. There's some very, very serious ones, too, like The Impossible. Not a schlocky depiction of the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
It is. It's so it's probably the most realistic film I've ever seen in my life.
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Exactly. So that's disaster films in a nutshell. And I feel like we could probably take a break here and then come back and talk about the history of disaster films. What do you think?
Stuff You Should Know
What Makes Disaster Films Great
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and it's just us today, and that's okay because we're just going to be sitting around rapping about one of our favorite things to talk about, and that is movies. Let's go to the movies. You had a little Katharine Hepburn thing going on there. Ethel Merman? Katharine Hepburn. It was Katharine Hepburn singing Ethel Merman. Okay.
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The Barkley Marathons
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The Barkley Marathons
So like you said, I think in 1977, James Earl Ray escapes. And Cantrell lived in the area. He said it was big news at the time. So he was aware of this. And a few years later, he and his friend Carl Henn, known as Raw Dog, for reasons that I don't want to ask about.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
So they decided to hike into the state park. This is a place where he's like, okay, we could totally do so many more than eight miles in 54 hours. Let's go check this out and have fun. And like you said, most of this area are not... nature trails where like there's signs posted, there's a path you can look down and follow.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Like these are hard to find trails that you need to know how to use a compass, a contour map. Like you have to be good at orienteering is what it's called. That's right. In addition to hiking and putting up with all sorts of terrible, just uncomfortable stuff and pushing your limits. So these guys were like, let's just go for a fun hike for a day.
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The Barkley Marathons
They didn't even like, yeah, know his his existence. Yeah. He just walked right by.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Yeah, and this is just a 50 to 55 mile version. Like you said, officially, the current Barkley Marathon is 100 mile. And in reality, it's also like 120 to 130 miles based on reports from people who've actually run it, right?
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The Barkley Marathons
So the first version, like you said, is three loops. And it wasn't until two years after the first one that somebody completed it. And I mean, we're talking like dozens of people attempting this. And it took three times before one person completed. And there was something about this that I don't know if we've mentioned yet. Just this first version, there was an elevation gain of 24,000 feet.
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The Barkley Marathons
So all of the times you went up and down, if you count all the ups, It would equal 24,000 feet in elevation that you've climbed over these three loops. And that is a lot. And in fact, the guy who finished, Frozen Ed Furtaw, he was just Ed Furtaw until he won. And from then on, he was Frozen Ed Furtaw.
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The Barkley Marathons
He thought that there was a misprint in Ultra Running Magazine that the elevation was actually 2,400 feet, not 24,000. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Yeah. So, yeah, the total elevation is 120,000 because, yeah, if you go up 60,000 feet and you're coming back down, you got to come down 60,000 feet. Yes, it's harder to climb up, but it's not that easy to go down too, especially if you're on an incline. And that's a big part of it too is sliding into things like briars and saplings. Yeah. It's rough.
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The Barkley Marathons
Like just watching like the effects on some of the runners' bodies and like what they were coming back to camp looking like was –
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The Barkley Marathons
Some guy had, like, a head wound, and they show him, like, slipping on rocks and hitting his forehead. It was really nuts what these people are doing to themselves.
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The Barkley Marathons
Yeah, it really is. One of the other things that really kind of gets us across, too, is in what you said. So you've got 60 hours to finish. And from the start, the clock's always ticking, right?
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The Barkley Marathons
But you're going 130 miles. So if you do the math, Olivia helps us with this. And she pointed out that you could sleep for two eight-hour nights. and still finish this course at a 20-minute mile pace, which you can basically do on your hands and knees, and still complete it within the 60-hour cutoff.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
So the fact that some people can't even finish the first loop goes to show you how difficult this is. That if it were flat, it would be beyond easy. But those same limits, the time limit and the length,
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Yeah, there's a really great documentary from 2017 called The Barkley Marathon, colon, The Race That Eats Its Young, which is a nickname for that race. And there's a few people in there who are seasoned trail runners, ultrathoners, like
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The Barkley Marathons
put on this this particular terrain or in this topography is just it changes absolutely everything oh yeah um i this 12 hour time limit per loop must have come in after the documentary right yeah that confused me too because they they were finishing in like 13 hours and something like that i didn't get that so yeah i think it must have been a new one
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Right. Yeah. And in the documentary, Cantrell points out like these, by this time, these people who had like formed serious bonds by running together on these loops are now direct competitors. Like now it's a race because they're in the fifth loop and whoever's going to finish and what time they finish at is going to determine the actual winner.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Like now there's a possible winner and everything changes. So I don't... They probably don't like class pans and then, you know, they're pulled apart, you know, sadly, when they have to go in different directions at that point.
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The Barkley Marathons
people who who know their stuff and have done crazy things as far as running goes who are like this is far and away the hardest race on the planet like there's nobody who's doing anything like this and if you think you know what you're doing you're going to be completely amazed at how far off you were in what you thought this is going to be like it's that hard yeah you got a chance to watch it
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Yeah. Um, that's, that's what I took it as too. And one thing that I didn't get, I got from context, I didn't see it anywhere because I guess it's so obvious. No one thought it needed to be spelled out except me, but, um, it's the same loop, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Okay, so they're doing the same loop five times, which is why they do it clockwise and counterclockwise and different ones at day and night. So that you can't just be like, yep, I remember this. This is nothing. Now I remember exactly what the trail is. You're super disoriented the first time, but it's not like you have it down pat after that first loop necessarily. Yeah.
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The Barkley Marathons
Um, I say we take a break and talk about how you would get into this race and then what it's actually like running it. Yeah, let's do it. Okay.
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The Barkley Marathons
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Yeah, it was good. And there was a guy who was a special operations, like, I guess, a former special ops soldier. Yeah, it was like, I've done crazy stuff with my body. And this like that did nothing to prepare me for this.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Well, it's officially too cold to do anything, Chuck. But the upside is that you can cocoon yourself in Bombas socks, slippers and underwear all winter long.
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The Barkley Marathons
Yeah, and Bama's knows that the little things really do make a big difference. So they removed all the itchy tags, fixed the annoying toe seam, and perfected the fit of everything. No more socks that slip down or underwear that rides up. Just perfect comfort.
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The Barkley Marathons
Yeah. And at some point you might as well be like, well, at least I guess I'm going to have to finish the first loop. I might as well keep going that direction.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Right. Yeah. So going even back before the start of the race, you said that the Barkley Marathon has no website. And that is intentional. The whole thing is meant to be kept largely a secret. There's not a website. There's not like some information on this is how you apply. You have to use... basically your investigative skills just to figure out Gary Cantrell's email to email to ask to apply.
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The Barkley Marathons
And they make it really, really hard to apply for this because in part they're just weeding out people who don't have even the beginning of the motivation and dedication to complete this race. Like if you can't even go to this trouble to like really do your research to figure out how to apply, then don't even bother trying to apply.
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The Barkley Marathons
Exactly. And if you do want to apply, you have to cough up a dollar sixty.
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The Barkley Marathons
No, he didn't. And he was like, this is six hours, man. Like, he didn't make it very far at all.
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The Barkley Marathons
And this guy was way more qualified to do it than, like, the average person. Like, it wasn't like he was just some, like, he went and plopped the guy out of McDonald's, like, mid-bite of a Big Mac and threw him on the trail. No, no. This guy was in pretty decent shape, and he thought that he had a chance. It's not like he's like, yeah, I'm going to go be the sacrificial human. Right, right.
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The Barkley Marathons
He thought like he was going to try to complete it. I don't even think he made it halfway through the first loop, did he?
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Yeah. Yeah. Imagine if he'd started like yelling. You just brought me out here to make fun of me.
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The Barkley Marathons
Yeah, that's the whole jam. The way that it's treated is like you're not going to finish. You're a dummy for even trying. There's this weird kind of push-pull going on that Gary Cantrell established basically out of the gate that's based on his kind of impish sense of humor. Yeah.
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And so that means that like you're just as likely to be abused or mocked when you like quit as you are to be told like, hey, you completed one loop. That's pretty good just in and of itself. It just I guess depends on what his mood is right then. And a lot of people like don't really like this guy that much. Like if you don't if you're not tuned into his sense of humor.
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you're probably not going to like him. You might find him obnoxious or, you know, might find him just mean. But if you are tuned into it, I think he's pretty funny. Like reading about him on paper and reading interviews with him, I was like, I don't really like this guy. And then I saw him in the documentary. I'm like, oh, okay. He's just hard to translate into a description.
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When you see him talk yourself, you're like, yeah, he's fine.
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The Barkley Marathons
Yeah, and the camel cigarettes play a big role because the start of the race is marked officially by him lighting a cigarette. So everybody's standing there at this gate that's the official starting line for the race and just standing there waiting for him to light the cigarette. And he finally does. And it's like a random time. I think it was like 8, 11 a.m. when the whole thing started.
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The Barkley Marathons
Oh, okay. So the whole thing about Barkley Marathons is that you can trace them back. I mean, you could start at the very beginning. We talked about in our, what was the one crazy marathon episode we did not too long ago?
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The Barkley Marathons
Yeah, I mean, there's bragging rights for sure. Like if you told any ultra marathon runner, you know, trail runner, that you completed the Barkley Marathon, like they would drop to their knees and start kissing your rings. Yeah. Like it's a big deal to have finished this thing.
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The Barkley Marathons
And yet there's also like from Gary Cantrell's perspective, from everything that I've read, the way that he describes it is like he's giving people an opportunity to push themselves to their maximum possible limits. Because remember, this race is intended to be just inside the possible human capacity. The possibility of the human body, right?
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The Barkley Marathons
So if you can complete it, like you're doing all sorts of things that you never thought you were capable of doing. Like your mental endurance is among the greatest of people walking around. And so, yeah, it's way more than just bragging rights. Like if you're into bragging rights, you're probably not even going to finish the first loop. Like if that's why you're doing it.
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and you somehow got accepted, it's not going to translate. So these people don't care about bragging rights, even though they would have bragging rights for life.
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No, it was on a specific marathon in, I think, Los Angeles.
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Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah, because as people get pared down, the people around them are like, they want to see somebody succeed then.
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Something like that. Either way, you're stripped down to like the bare essentials.
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The Barkley Marathons
And you have a map, but you don't have a copy of their map. They give you the master map to use to trace the route onto your own map. And if you trace it incorrectly, well, that's TS for you. And people do get lost, like, a lot. There was one guy who – Oh, man. I don't remember what year it was. Oh, in 2006. Yeah. Yeah. This guy wandered off the course and spent 32 hours trying to get back.
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The Barkley Marathons
And in the end, he only did like two miles of the actual course. He wandered so far off course. So the way he put it, he did 16-hour miles in this race.
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The Barkley Marathons
No, remember the guy who was running the human zoos at the World's Fair came up with a, like a, he called it the Special Olympics Marathon. This was months ago, man. Hey, you can't remember it either, buddy. All right. Well, I can't remember.
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Yeah. And I'm guessing that they are the books in the same place every time? That I'm not sure about. But I do know that they hide them. They're not just always out in plain sight. Like one of the things you're having to stay oriented, you're having to push your body and endure. And then you're also at the same time having to make sure you don't trot past one of the books.
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And also, if you're like, well, how do you get the same page 11 times? You get a different bib number for each loop. So you would be tearing out a different page each time.
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I read about one runner, too, who I think this I don't remember what year was, maybe 2016 or 17. He made it. He showed up six seconds after time. Oh, my God. And but he had all his pages and they said like he was just collapsed on the ground. And he said, I have all my pages, but he didn't make it by six seconds.
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You'd have to be one hell of a perfectionist to be like, well, I failed.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Yes. Anyway. Oh, get this. Apparently we did an entire short stuff on Saturn's rings and didn't mention it because I have no recollection of doing a short stuff on Saturn's rings. Do you?
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
He said that he thinks the reason why is because it's just one final punishment for you from Gary Cantrell to basically be humiliated with taps. Then on the other side, some runners, when they finish, especially when they actually complete the race, he has one of those Staples easy buttons that they press. And when you press it, a voice goes, that was easy.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Yeah. The guy who was on the documentary was I think his name was John Kelly. He finished second of two, I think, that year or maybe three. And he they show him and he's just totally out of it. Like he's sitting on a chair with people surrounded surrounding him talking.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
He's just in another world, like totally out of his skull because he hadn't slept at all like that whole time.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
That was a – well, yeah, so I think officially 20 out of 1,000-plus people have finished. So I'm sure we have some sixth graders who can calculate that for us and send it in.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Yeah. So she finished with two minutes left, right? That's incredible. Yeah, it really is. And one of the reasons it's incredible is because Gary Cantrell, this is another reason a lot of people don't like him. For years and years and years, he would say publicly there's no woman out there who could possibly finish this race.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
You do remember we did a Saturn episode that came out like a few days back.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
And, you know, he was criticized for saying that kind of thing because there's plenty of amazing women marathoners and ultrathoners and trail runners. And he defended it by basically saying, if a woman could defeat this, it would be exactly the kind of woman who would need to hear somebody say something like a woman would never be able to complete this.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Right. So finally, yes, I think Jasmine Paris. She's a Brit who teaches at the University of Scotland. Did you say that part?
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
It might not be L.A., but it was like just – you remember like that one Italian guy? I think he was running in like – Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. He'd stop and eat people's fruit and stuff and chat with everybody. And there were the two guys from Africa who were like – I remember that now. Yeah. It was – I can't remember where it was or what the name was.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
No, although you do kind of have to be a dum-dum to do it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Yeah. I say we finish on the story of John Fega Varese. All right. Let's hear it. He was a runner in, oh, I don't know what year he ran, but he was an experienced ultramarathon runner. He participated in the Badwater Ultramarathon, which runs through Death Valley, 135 miles. Yeah. And he was like, this is, that's nothing. I'm paraphrasing.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
I'm sure he wouldn't say this, but he was basically like, you can't even really compare the two. And he completed it. And he was so incoherent from sleep deprivation that he apparently didn't remember like downing a pint of Ben and Jerry's ice cream like at the finish line. He had no idea that he'd done that. And he spent the next day and a half just laying around the campground recovering and
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
So after that time, he's like, all right, I guess I'll drive home. And he started falling asleep on the way home. So he had to stop and check himself into a hotel where he slept for another 16 hours. Oh, man.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Yeah. And I say we quietly close the door and leave John to his slumber and go on to listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Wow, Chuck, I feel more lake-informed than I ever have been in my entire life.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
The sad thing is the whole reason I brought that up Chuck was to say that we went over a lot of the origins of marathons in that episode so we don't need to do that in this episode. Can you believe that we just did all that?
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Yes. And I can vouch for Chuck Mark. We just edited out many minutes of him searching for that email. So he really did give it a try.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Right. If you want to be like Mark and his unnamed sons, you can write to us as well. Send us an email to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
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Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
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Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Yeah. Barkley, he's a farmer. He's like he's never run anything like that. And he said, I have no idea why he named it after me.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
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Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Yeah. He also apparently really liked the idea that if he continued to work at something, he would continue to improve. And that's a big part of running. That's a big part of running. It's a big part of hiking. It's a big part of doing everything worthwhile. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, he got the bug pretty early on. He started running marathons. I think in 1966 he started running.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
By high school he was running marathons. And then he started running ultramarathons. And he was there like right at the beginning of the ultramarathon craze, which I think kicked off in 1974 with California's Western States 100. A guy named Gordy Ainsley set that up. And so by this time, you know, the ultramarathons were starting to catch on.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
And Gary Cantrell was enough of a runner that he knew of these things. But he was also married. He was starting to have kids. He had a job as an accountant. And he just couldn't travel the country to go participate in ultrathons. So he started setting his own up around Tennessee.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
That's so bad. That's just such a bad idea. Well, he called it the idiot's run for a really good reason. Yeah. And that's the whole his whole jam is like he loves coming up with a kind of race that just is at the border between the possibility and the impossibility of human endurance of what the human body can actually do.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Like he wants it just inside of that limit so that you could, if you push yourself enough, complete this race. But most people are just not going to be able to because it's so close to impossible.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Yeah, because I think the astonishment at how difficult it is probably takes up a lot of your mental energy and focus while you're doing it for the first time. And that, yeah, once you've even tried it before and even dropped out, you probably are past that. And it's got to be a huge leg up. Totally. So we should talk a little bit about the whole basis of all this, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too. And this is Stuff You Should Know. And we are giving up right out of the gate on our episode about the Barclay Marathon.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Okay. Well, the whole thing is held at Frozen Head State Park. That says it all, huh? Yeah. It's named after the tallest peak in this state park. It's in northeastern Tennessee, which is kind of, I guess, where northeastern Tennessee is where Virginia and North Carolina come together with Tennessee. It's a beautiful area. This would be in the Cumberland Mountains.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
And this particular state park is not like the kind you just, you know, go to, everybody goes to on the weekends for a picnic. It's pretty remote. It's 330 acres. But this 330-acre state park is surrounded by 24,000 acres of forest land. And the whole thing, I guess, started with convict leasing. So this area is, like, really dark.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
No, and this area is inhospitable because of its terrain and in part because of the weather and the elevation. Yeah, yeah. But the whole reason there's a prison there is because back in the 19th century, Tennessee started making money by leasing its prisoners, convicts, to mining companies, coal mining companies.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Just make a little extra on the side from forcing your prisoners to engage in hard labor, right? Well, I think in our... Man, I need to keep a list of all of our episodes like handy because I can't remember the name of it. But do you remember that one war, the strike war in the 19th century? And I think coal mines in... Matawan. Matawan. Yes. Thank you. In that episode, we talked a lot about...
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
What happened also in Tennessee's coal mines where the labor was taking on management and it was resulting in wars. Well, one of the things that resulted out of this in Tennessee was that the laborers, the free laborers who worked for the coal mining companies would frequently help the convicts whose labor was being leased out by the state escape.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
And so Tennessee was like, well, fine, we're not doing that anymore. But undeterred, they just started setting up their own coal mines and using the prisoners directly instead of leasing them out.
Stuff You Should Know
The Barkley Marathons
Hey, everybody. It's Chuck and Josh here to talk to you about Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easy to build the website of your dreams and do whatever you like with it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Let's give it a shot. These hardcore lit teachers who have been teaching The Scarlet Letter for 20 years. Technically, I just named another book, Chuck. For 20 years. These people know too much. They understand the book too well. They know all the details that they just get mired down when they're writing a synopsis or something.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
It's just too intense for the audience, which is high school and college readers, usually undergrad readers. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, you'd walk in the bookstore and they'd call to you, don't bother, come by me. Yeah. Exactly. So one of the big things, I didn't know this, but one of the big reasons CliffsNotes became the brand that it is today, which is to say iconic, is because they advertise a lot in the 60s. And they very wisely went to where their readership was. They advertised in 17. They advertised in Playboy.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
They advertised in, well, the Scholastic Journal. I don't know how much of a return on investment they got on that, but they also advertised in college newspapers. Bingo. Yeah. And so like if you're if you're going to high schoolers and college kids and saying, hey, we have something that you it's going to keep you from having to read a scarlet letter, the scarlet letter.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Like, don't you want that? And they say, yes, I want that so bad. Like it just it just rooted that business and simultaneously made it take off like a rocket.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
That's why I keep calling it a scarlet letter.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Right. That wasn't enough to keep people from from coming along as competitors. But it does seem like they really didn't start to emerge until much, much later in history. Yeah. Like like decades and decades on.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
One of the things that CliffsNotes have long been criticized for, though, is like they write the they write the book on the Scarlet Letter. And that's that. Like like what you are reading could have been written by a grad student in 1968. Yeah. Yeah. Even though you just bought this thing like last week. That's not the case any longer. It's changed hands.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
And as it's changed hands several times, they've definitely been dusted off and brushed up and all those idioms. But for a very long time, it was like this is really old fashioned stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Especially like the language they use, the points they're making. A lot of one of the things that CliffsNotes was known for is putting works of literature, specifically the Scarlet Letter, into a historical context. And that can change as people understand history more. But if you don't go update it, it's the understanding of it in 1968. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah. Not only did they drop a million in sales, they dropped a million units in the mid-70s.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
No. Like the number of sales that they made dropped from 2.8 million to 1.8 million.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, and Cliff Hilligass was like, you hippies for that huge loss in sales for the mid-70s. Yeah. So there was another stumble that they made, Cliff's Cassettes, which was a good idea if you ask me.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
It was Cliff's Notes, but in a cassette version that kids could pop into their Walkman and walk around listening. Want to be lazier? Yeah, exactly. You don't even have to walk around. You can lay there and listen to this stuff with your eyes closed and your hands soaking in palm olive.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, and listen to Ed Asner tell you what The Scarlet Letter means.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
No, but everyone basically in the world calls it Cliff Notes.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Until the Walkman. Did you have a Walkman, by the way? Yeah, of course I did. Nice. I did, too. I associate it specifically with my cassette of Huey Lewis and the New Sports.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Oh, yeah. I never had an iPod. I went from Walkman to iPhone, I guess.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
That's awesome. Yeah, I didn't have one of those. I'm sorry.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
No need. Those things were tiny, though. They were like the size of a thumb of steak.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, there you go. Yeah. We'll keep going, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, he's standing up in some bushes like a creep with a book open.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
He this is this this I think this also kind of puts a certain like it paints a picture of this guy. That's what I'm trying to say. At age 65 on the dot, he retires. OK. Yeah. Like that's just the kind of guy he was. But he didn't actually retire. He just stepped down from company president to the head of the board of directors.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Right. He would show up in like a smoking jacket and ascot after he retired. Exactly.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Right. But that's just, I mean, I can totally, because don't forget, he was trained in geology, math, physics. He had a certain way of looking at things for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Especially the English used by Americans in 1968. That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
I've always wondered what that is. Like guys in particular retiring and then dying like very soon after that. It's kind of a thing. And even if you don't die, you can like a lot of people just get like really sick for a while afterward. And I don't know if it's like you've been running on adrenaline last five years or what the deal is.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
But it's like when you when you finally your body finally resets, like I don't have to go to work anymore. Something happens to you.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, that makes sense, too. Course Hero is an online tutor, essentially. They have courses, and they're heroes for it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Right. And you can tell the ones that read the Cliff's notes of the Scarlet Letter because they're the ones who thought it was really good.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
They have a little piece of it in their teeth.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah. And like you said, it's entered the lexicon. Most people can recognize it just from that yellow and black cover. It looks like a Men at Work album cover.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Aren't they used, though? They're not newly printed.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
That was my take that they're used, but who knows?
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, so you can subscribe to Cliff's Notes today for, I think, $9 a month or $36 a year. And you get all of the free stuff, but you can also download it as a PDF. So if you learn better by, like, reading... on print or on paper, you would need to do that. But they also have other stuff too. There's like much more in-depth guides and analysis and stuff like that behind their paywall.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Striper, yes. Very nice. Maybe that's where Striper got it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
So it's not like you're just a total sucker for paying for free CliffsNotes because they have a bunch of stuff that's not just free.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
And then, yeah, most people in America know what we're talking about. I do wonder how well known it is around the world, though.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Right. I mean, it's even more, like there's pretty good detail in it. Like for their analysis of the Scarlet Letter, they talk about how the Scarlet Letter fits into dystopian fiction in general. Yeah. Or how Big Brother in the Scarlet Letter can be compared to Hitler or Stalin.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Or when Hester Prynne develops newspeak, what all that means.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, there's a bunch of stuff I went in and poked around and it is a lot of free stuff. Like you could write numerous really good slam dunk papers on the Scarlet Letter just from the free stuff that they have available. So I'm a little curious too what their business model is because it doesn't really make sense to me unless it's a portal to Course Hero now that I think about it. I'll bet it is.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
I'll bet they get you with the free stuff, and then they get you into Course Hero, and they turn you upside down and shake you by your ankles until all the change falls out of your pockets.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
No, worse than that. I never I didn't even bother to use the CliffsNotes. I didn't read the material either. Oh, I was just a really, really lame high school student in high school. I was not good at all. I didn't blossom until college.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Like Hester Brand did in The Scarlet Letter. That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, because it's been long, basically from the outset, criticized for being this thing that students read and use instead of actually reading the material, the book that they're supposed to read. That actually ran... foul, I guess, of what the guy who invented these things intent was. He always said, no, this is not what that's for. You're supposed to read the regular, you know, book.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
With a stern note at the beginning of every copy of CliffsNotes. He had a little note. His signature was next to it, too.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
He said that a thorough appreciation of literature allows no shortcuts, and students who use them to avoid reading the actual material or having to go into class for discussion groups about the material are denying themselves the very education that they are presumably giving their most vital years to achieve. And I feel like he took a bit of a utopian approach to how he viewed his customers.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
But surely there were some out there. I do wonder if there is a single CliffsNotes buyer who read that note and was like, you know what? I'm going to change my ways. I'm abusing these things.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
I saw also that some teachers did that. They actually suggested CliffsNotes for some students, which meant that your teacher thought you were a dipstick.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
That's really hilarious. That's so Mrs. Krabappel.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
And then a lot of them actually use CliffsNotes for the opposite reasons. They would know, like if you're a high school English teacher, there's a handful of the scarlet letters that you've assigned during the year and you assign the same scarlet letters over and over again year after year. So you probably know the CliffsNotes on those things by heart.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
So you can very easily pick out when somebody is not only using the CliffsNotes, but way worse than that is actually plagiarizing the CliffsNotes. That is the laziest thing you could possibly do prior to chat GPT writing your paper for you.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah. I didn't even read the material or the CliffsNotes. That's pretty lazy. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, they very famously sent in a hit squad that ended up trashing the bookstore and tore up all of the CliffsNotes. And when they left, they threw flashbang grenades into the bookstore as they took off. That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Calm down. Yeah. We kind of touched on and we didn't say it like overtly, but there were a lot of teachers out there who were OK with CliffsNotes and some who even encouraged their use. That seems to have come along like a generation after CliffsNotes came out, which is not coincidental because a lot of those people who grew up to be English teachers and English professors died.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
use CliffsNotes when they went through school themselves. So at the very least, they had a certain fondness of it. And at best, they were like, this is actually super helpful as a reference material.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
You're supposed to read the Scarlet Letter, Chuck, and whether you like it or not doesn't matter. And then you get the CliffsNotes and you understand it that much more fully. That was the point.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah. And they did own it. I think they kind of walked it back a little bit. So there's like a watered down version of his note, essentially saying the same thing, but they definitely did. They said the unspoken part out loud, I guess is how they put it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah. And reading all this, Chuck, made me realize how much I missed out by not reading all those books in high school. You still can, buddy. Right. So I went on a couple of like I searched books you should read before you die. And that brought up numerous lists. And there's some that appear on all the lists. And I'm still searching for which The Scarlet Letter I'm going to read. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Which single book? Yeah. If you have any recommendations for one to start with, let me know.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
You mean the Scarlet Letter, the one with the great white whale? Oh, that's right. I got the name wrong. So sorry. Yeah. All right. Yeah, I saw that one. I was like, I don't know. It might be fun if we both read that. Okay. I have a feeling you're going to be like, you're still reading that two years from now.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
All right. You give me a two-year head start, and then you start, and we'll finish at the same time and talk about it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Right. And also, Chuck, I mean, if rock and roll rots your brain, reading about rock and roll really does. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Right. And you have to have read the CliffsNotes to say what you think. What else? You want to talk about any of these parodies or spinoffs or competitors?
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
That's pretty good. I went and read some of their stuff. It's much more loosely written, like what's up with yada, yada, yada.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
I watched the one on Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Oh, yeah. Like, when you finish watching one of these Thug Notes, like, you understand what that book was about, like, fully. Like, he does a great job with it. But, yeah, there's just this whole shtick to it that's pretty awesome, too.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Did you say the name of his character on Thug Notes?
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Okay. I think, man, hats off to us. Hats off to Olivia. Hats off to Mental Floss. Hats off to Sparky Sweets PhD. We made it through Cliff's Notes.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, and Hester Prynne, too. Yeah. Let's see. Since we took our hat off to Hester Prynne, of course that means it's time for listener mail. Ding.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
I think we talked about the Roundhouse Theater, didn't we? It sounds familiar. I hope we did. Thank you very much, Reagan. We love it when we hear from experts in the field about an episode we talk about, especially when they say we got it right. And if you want to be like Reagan and send us an email where you're like, hey, I know what I'm talking about and you guys did a good job.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
We love that kind of thing. You can send it to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah. So long story short, Cliff Hillegas was a very smart guy. I saw that he was said to read five books a week basically his whole life.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
I don't know. I just don't know. Because he's dead now and we can't ask him.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, also, I want to give big ups. Are we still saying big ups?
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
I want to give big ups to Livia, who helped us out with this, because there is not a lot of information on Cliff's Notes out there. Yeah. It's just not out there. You can get, appropriately enough, the brief overview of Cliff Notes and its history, but to really dig in and get the details, you've got to get out there. So thanks to her for that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah. And then also I want to give big ups to Mental Floss, too, because they did some really good reporting on it, too. Some good digging.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, depending on who you're talking about. It wasn't that good of a thing for a guy named Jack Cole, the guy who we had dinner with in Toronto, who was a bookstore owner. And Jack Cole was like, hey, man, I'm going to let you in on this business opportunity. I have these condensed pamphlets that basically are analysis of Shakespeare's plays. I publish 16 of them.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
And I think the quote from Cliff Hillegas was, Jay Cole said, yes, I know.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
He said, I want you to be the American distributor of these pamphlets, which I call Cole's Notes. And Clifton Hilligast said, all right, I'll give it a shot and started selling these things, publishing them and selling them in America. And what happened from Cole's Notes, Chuck? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Well, yeah. So they were paying royalties to Jet Coal. That was the setup. And within the first year, I guess Hill of Gas was like, nuts to that. I'm just going to rename these things Cliff Notes. Cliff's Notes. So they went from Coal's Notes to Cliff's Notes. I think the coal was heard to say, and Cliff was like, I can't hear you. I'm down in Nebraska.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
So I just see people gloss over this all the time. Like it's I just don't understand why it's not at all controversial because he clearly just took he just lifted the intellectual property of Jack Cole and took it as his own. To be fair, he rewrote and phased out the Cole's note stuff. But the whole concept and even basically the name was the same.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah. But if law and order has taught me anything, it's that you can't predict what a judge is going to rule.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
No, I understand. And I'm not trying to, like, gun him down. I just haven't gotten my gotcha today. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
I do, too. And I saw nowhere what his reaction was or what he did. I made up his quote of, um, that was a joke. But, yeah, everybody just walks right past that stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, that's the thing. So, yeah, this is not to paint him as a bad guy. If you want to know about him, he treasured letters that he got from students thanking him for helping them get through school, which you and I can attest getting a letter and email like that is really great. So I guess that makes us really great, too, if I'm saying that that makes him a good guy. That's wonderful.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yeah, later on he got remarried to a woman named Mary. Yeah. And I guess he adopted her two kids. Another thing that shows he's a stand-up guy. Really, the only blemish on his entire lifetime is how he treated Jack Cole.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
No, he named them Cliff's kids. They were originally Jack Coles because he stole his wife, Mary.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here too. And this is the brief overview of CliffsNotes.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
So we should say, despite legendarily reading five books a week, Hillegas didn't write any of the CliffsNotes. He was more like the business guy. He had the idea, you would put in scare quotes, and he was running the whole operation. He had the vision for it, right? So he hired other people and initially hired literature teachers like hardcore writers.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Nope. We are doing the brief overview of Cliff's Notes. I said it wrong the first time. It's never been Cliff Notes. It's Cliff's Notes.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Like like hardcore, like they have crew cuts and wear like army boots and stuff like that kind of lit teacher. But he realized something very quickly that I'm sure developed a hardcore lit teacher who's been teaching the same books, been teaching a scarlet letter for. I think we should not mention a single other book besides the scarlet letter in this episode. What do you think? Agreed. All right.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
You did fantastic. My favorite out of all of them is fluvoxamine.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
I like all those letters together like that. It's great. Yeah, and I'm not saying the drug itself, just the word.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
They're just hanging out there like, where's my Uber?
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
There is so many other things I could have said. And I just, I don't know. I couldn't come up with anything better.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
So that's specifically what you just said SSRIs do. And they live up to their name, essentially.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
I think you did, but yes. So they specifically focus on serotonin and they prevent its reuptake from the synapse that sent it, or the neuron that sent it out, right? So the great thing about SSRIs is that they work really, really, really well on most people with the fewest side effect. And it's in part because they selectively target serotonin.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
And despite the fact that there's fewer side effects in fewer people than other types of antidepressants, some people do not respond particularly well to it. It depends on the brand. Not necessarily the brand, but the type of drug. I mean, all of the SSRIs aren't exactly the same. So if one's not working for you, you can try another one and another one and another one.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
And if that doesn't work, then you might move on to another class of antidepressants. But from what I can tell, SSRIs are essentially still today like basically the flagship antidepressant, if there is such a thing.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here too. Well, actually, that's not true, isn't it? It's a dirty, dirty lie. What are you talking about? It's just me and Chuck. We're producing our own jam today, I guess you could say. And this is Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Right. For sure. Is that a good way to say that? It is. And patient education is a really important part of treating depression. Like it's not one of those things where you just turn up and say, well, you know, here, treat me like you're going to be armed with a lot of stuff on how to help yourself, too.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
And I guarantee you they're going to say exercise every day for 20, 30 minutes a day will be one of the things that they say. Because it works so well. It's crazy what it does. And that's part of also treating things with antidepressants is if you are suffering from major depressive disorder, you probably can't get yourself up and exercise.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
So on antidepressants, it increases the chances that you can exercise. And then that just makes it even more effective.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
No, I still don't think it was silly. I think it was a great shout out for sure. Good. So a couple more things real quick on SSRIs before we move on. Fluoxetine in particular, Prozac, has a long half-life.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
So you can get away with just one dose, which you're like, who cares?
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah, but that actually decreases your chances of missing a dose. So that's a good thing. And then one of the other things, too, is when you go to the doctor, especially if you're a kid, they start treating you with antidepressants. They're going to start at really, really low dose and just kind of slowly move it up. And as you get adjusted to it, it cuts down on the chances of side effects.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
But there can be side effects with SSRIs from antidepressants. anxiety to sexual dysfunction to vertigo. So, I mean, you need to go into understanding what you're facing, but a good psychiatrist or doctor will be like, okay, let's just do this a little at a time to get you on your feet as gently as possible.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yes, those were some of the first, but not the first, strangely. But these were really kind of early pioneering antidepressants that they worked on serotonin. That was kind of their goal. They were a reuptake inhibitor as well. The problem with these things are is that they weren't selective. That's why SSRIs are just so desirable.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Tricyclic antidepressants are just like, come here, neurotransmitter. And they kind of dry hump the neurotransmitter no matter what kind of neurotransmitter it is and prevent it from being taken back up again.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
We should just leave it in once just to really punish her.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah, you probably associate these names with the smell of mothballs. That's right, exactly.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
I can't. Yeah, sure you can. Meprotiline. Okay. The brand name's even worse. Luteomil. Yeah. Desipramine. That's norepramine is the brand name. Amitriptyline.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah. Clomipramine. That does not roll off the tongue. That's anaphranil. And then imipramine, which is trophanil. I've never heard of any of these. But they apparently work fairly well. It's just the side effects that are really problematic. I mean, strangely, they treat it just as well as SSRIs. But again, they treat everything, all the neurotransmitters.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
She's got like a little bit of miso in the corner of her mouth.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
And because, as we've seen, neurotransmitters perform more than one function in the body, they have a whole host of side effects that you just don't want.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
So, Chuck, today we are doing something in grand Stuff You Should Know fashion. We're doing a tangential episode where we haven't done like the core episode that it relates to. Have we never done one on depression officially? I could not believe it. I looked on the stat sheet maintained by Jill Hurley, which is infallible. I looked all over the Internet.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Right. That has, I saw a black box warning that the FDA slapped on it that says it can cause suicide. And I was like, how? How does that stuff happen? And the way that I saw it explained is that if you have, like, if you are, if you're suicidal and you have depression, you're thinking of suicide, you may be too immobilized to actually carry it out. Uh-huh.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
A tricyclic antidepressant may lift the depression just enough for you to act. And apparently there's a warning on the box that says that. So, yeah, tricyclics don't sound particularly desirable. Yeah. But they probably saved quite a few people in the 50s and 60s when they came out.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah. And what's weird is SNRIs. You think it's better, right? Yeah. Despite selectively targeting two neurotransmitters, it's basically just as good as the SSRIs.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
I think they have about the same number of side effects, too.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
That's right. What just happened? That was great, man. Benaflexine is Duncan.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
There's another related class called noradrenergic and specific serotonergic. I'll bet the psychiatrists are just laughing, laughing, laughing. Have fun, fellas. Or else they turned this off a long time ago. Yeah. But those type of antidepressants, NASSAs, lowercase a first. So I'm pretty sure there's no other. I guess you could say not SSAs. Surely people don't say that.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Sure. That's even better. It's better than venlafaxine. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah. They – the NASSAs have – they do the same thing, but they have different side effects. It's just so bizarre. Yeah. Like you can experience weight gain and sedation rather than, say, sexual dysfunction like on a SNRI. But they're all doing the same thing. But again – None of them seem to be any better than SSRIs, and SSRIs have the fewest side effects.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yes. So I've heard of MAOIs like basically my whole life. Haven't you? No. Okay. So they're this like very like widespread class of drugs, but they have a weird twist to them in that they prevent you from breaking down something called tyramine, which is an amino acid. And tyramine is great because it regulates blood pressure, but you don't want too much tyramine.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
It gets out of whack and your blood pressure gets out of whack. And tyramine is present in a lot of different foods from like soy sauce to fish to sausage, aged cheese, the best cheese.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
And as a matter of fact, it's called the cheese reaction, where people get hypertensive from taking MAOIs and accidentally eating the wrong food. So what the monoamines get broken down by is monoamine oxidase, MAO. And the MAOI is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
So it prevents this thing from breaking down the monoamines. And that's why you can't eat aged cheese.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
I've never heard of any of them, but sure, if you want.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Well, I think what's also interesting is that it was discovered by accident.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
I sat there and had a conversation with myself. Nothing. It's not there.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah, so I think they started in 1958 with Marsalid, the first ever MAOI antidepressant. But again... Because you can't eat aged cheese, people don't usually prescribe that as an antidepressant anymore.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Sure. I mean, yeah, that'll make anybody depressed not being able to eat aged cheese.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah. Yeah. We did do bipolar. We've done PTSD. We've done ADHD, obviously, all that. But we'll definitely do depression at some point. OK.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
OK, Chuck, so we started talking about nutraceuticals, and that's just a fancy name for a supplement that you could conceivably use to treat a malady. And in this case, people have long been seeking supplements to treat depression with, whether it's clinical or, you know, diagnosable or passing depression. Who knows?
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Oh, that was a good one. That was great, man. So, yeah, we're talking about antidepressants. That was a great one. Thanks. And to talk about antidepressants, we really do have to kind of give at least the briefest overview of what depression is like. It's kind of everywhere.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
People don't necessarily want to take pharmaceuticals and it's tough to blame them. So they'll follow studies and they will read about new discoveries with people poking around trying to figure out what causes depression. And very often they'll turn up some specific amino acid or something like that, that they show that there's low levels of that in the brain of people with depression.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
And so they'll go off and test this amino acid and they'll show like, yep, actually it improves symptoms. And then people go out and buy tons of that supplement. But the problem is in the United States, if it's a supplement, it's essentially totally unregulated.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
So there's no one checking out to make sure that the dose is the same pill to pill, that they actually have what they say they have in them, that they don't have old newspapers ground up with it. It's just the Wild West when it comes to supplements, which makes it really a tricky thing to treat your depression with, even though I totally understand how somebody would not want to
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
I remember that. That was our parents taking St. John's Wort, wasn't it?
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
I saw something like 60 million adults in America, and I think they define that over age 18 these days for this kind of stuff, have some sort of diagnosed depression. I think 20 million of those have major depressive disorder, which also is called clinical depression or unipolar depression, as opposed to, say, like bipolar, where you have ups and downs, mania and depression.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah, I can't bring it to mind either, but I'll bet I know what you're talking about. So, yeah, St. John's Wort, it was all the rage in the 80s. And I think one of the other things that lent it a lot of credibility is people have been using St. John's Wort to improve mood for probably thousands and thousands of years, if not longer.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
The problem is, is all that time through history, people weren't also taking like birth control pills or pharmaceutical antidepressants, both of which St. John's Wort reduces the effectiveness of. You don't really want to reduce the effectiveness of your birth control pills if you're trying not to get pregnant at that time. It also prevents the breakdown of antihistamines.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
It does all sorts of unwanted stuff. That's just such a great stellar lesson in the problems with using a supplement to treat something like major depressive disorder. But it's also a lesson in just how far we need to go to look into non-pharmaceutical treatments for stuff and actually study them and figure out exactly how to do it and start producing that treatment as well.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Because, you know, I think most people do prefer something that you could conceivably consider more natural than a pharmaceutical treatment.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
The problem with that, though, is that we're not set up, the United States at least, isn't set up to make a trillion dollars off of St. John's Wort. It's tough to do that as opposed to creating a new proprietary compound that treats depression.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah. So the government was all about, I should say, the FDA back in 2019. They prescribed or they approved, sorry, a prescription version of ketamine called esketamine. And apparently that to ketamine I've seen compared to CBD to THC.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Exactly. That like, say, a geriatric person might take.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah. So psilocybin is just gangbusters at treating depression. Ketamine is too. We should say also that psychiatrists are like, we need a more potent version of ketamine. So please approve that FDA. Right. They're not, as far as I know, on the way to do that. But who knows? But psilocybin in particular, there's just study after study after study that's like this stuff really works.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
And it works in like you don't have to stay on it. You don't have to take mushrooms every day for the rest of your life, which sucks. You know, but you only take them a couple of times and it can have effects that last up to a year. There was a, I think a Johns Hopkins study from 2022 where they gave two doses of psilocybin to patients two weeks apart.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
And so they gave each patient a dose of psilocybin two weeks apart. They didn't just wait two weeks to go to the next patient, I guess is what I'm saying. Yeah. So they found that the effects could last like a year, a year from the second dose. And the effects were like just mind-blowing too as far as the, I guess, quantifying the symptoms of depression, right?
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
And it apparently is picking up so much that the World Health Organization is saying like, hey, guys, by 2030, that will be the leading disease essentially in the entire world. Depression will be just the way that things are going. And everyone in the world is like, yeah, we know. And it just kind of is going from there.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah, so that was 2022. I wonder if they check in with these people now what the scores will be. You know, do you have to take psilocybin every two years, twice over two weeks, and maintain control over depression? That's pretty amazing. There's another study from 2024 that found that psilocybin is at least as effective at treating MDD as SSRIs, probably more.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
That's right. So just real quick, because we'll probably go over this a little bit in the depression episode, but if you go in for treatment of depression, they're going to treat you in three different phases. Two, possibly, but... Probably three. The first is acute, where you show up and you're like, I can't take this anymore. I need treatment.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
They're going to get you on probably an SSRI, but they're going to get you on some antidepressant to start. They're going to try to work their way up while also balancing getting you feeling better as soon as possible. And time was they would try an antidepressant for like four to six weeks. That was what was generally prescribed. Like that's what all psychiatrists did.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
And if after four to six weeks, there wasn't more than a 25% reduction in symptoms, they would say, this isn't working for you. Let's try another one. But I guess something happened to the psychiatry zeitgeist. And now they're waiting as long as six months to give it a chance. which has got to be tough when you're suffering from major depressive disorder. But that's the acute phase.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
And once they find an antidepressant that can manage your symptoms, you'll move into what's called the continuation phase.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
So I think I said most people will suffer multiple or chronic or recurring episodes of major depressive disorder once they have one. Something like 50% to 85% of people who have one will have another episode. So it's probable that your continuation phase will eventually turn into a maintenance phase where they'll just keep an eye on you. You'll probably...
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
keep up with, say, therapy or psychoanalysis or something like that. And if your episode starts to come back, they'll put you on the antidepressant that worked before. And this can go anywhere from a year to indefinite. Just the point is to stay on top of your symptoms so that you don't have another episode. Or if one starts to come along, they nip it in the bud very quickly. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Right. Plus, if you're just counting prescriptions of antidepressants, you might miss that, say, the tricyclic antidepressants are now being prescribed for neuropathic pain. Right. So that would get lumped into that as well. And yet you can totally get the viewpoint of people who are like, yeah, that probably accounts for some of it. But, dude,
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
I saw a statistic that in the United States, people ages 12 to 25, between 2016 and 2022, monthly prescriptions of antidepressants went up 66%.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah, I think from 2020 to 2022, if you just look in that window, especially for, I think, girls and women aged 12 to 25, it went up like 150% in those two years. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah. So it's also possible that that the stigma has been reduced. Thank you, Gen Z, around seeking treatment for mental health and talking about your mental health. So more people could be seeking help. which could lead to a higher increase in diagnoses, which would, of course, lead to an increase in prescriptions.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
At the same time, some people are like, a lot of this is just pathologizing human sadness. So everybody agrees, basically, that if you have a low-level diagnosable depression that's not MDD, then you should not start out with antidepressants. You should start out with lifestyle changes, like changes in your diet, exercise again, getting good sleep, just stuff you can do without pharmaceuticals.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Everyone agrees, except I'm sure for the pharmaceutical companies that you should not start with that for like low level depression.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
So there's just a couple of other things we want to cover real quick that fall under the umbrella of antidepressants making depression worse.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Because you would probably be bewildered if you were taking antidepressants and you're like, I actually feel way worse than I did before. And there's a whole kind of little suite of possible reasons for why that might happen.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah, you might have a chump for a doctor. Yeah. Genetics is also one. Apparently, that also determines whether a risk factor, like you said earlier, like grief or something like that, pushes you into major depressive disorder. There's a gene, the SLC64A, the serotonin transporter gene, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
There's a variation in that where you can actually feel worse after taking antidepressants because of that gene.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah, and then being under 25 before your brain is fully developed, that's one. There's something called akathisia, which it's basically just an internal restlessness that keeps you from sleeping, makes you anxious, and then those will make your depression symptoms worse. And then just being on too many drugs, right? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Right, exactly. So that's it for antidepressants, right? You got anything else? I got nothing else. Okay, well, go forth and seek treatment if you have depression, especially if you think you have major depressive disorder. Go get help. Things can get a lot better. And since I said things can get a lot better, everybody, it's time for Listener Mail.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Thanks, Jill. That was a great one. We love naming stuff that we experience and didn't know there was a name for, right? Right. So, okay. Well, if you want to be like Jill, send us an email. Send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah, and for a lot of people, I think for most people, statistically speaking, it's chronic or recurring. You don't just have one episode. It can keep coming back and back. And it's nothing new. Like, depression is not new, although it has really kind of picked up as far as diagnoses and prescriptions go.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
But, I mean, we used to call it melancholy, and they associated it with black bile all the way back to Hippocrates. And depending on what culture you were from, they would either say, tell you that you needed positive rewards. Let's say you lived in Persia in the ninth century. Or if you were in medieval Europe, they might burn you at the stake or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Luckily, we've come a long way with treating depression. That's the that's I think we should say here at the outset. That's the message we're trying to say. Like it is highly treatable.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Like if you have depression and you're not treating it, there's definitely hope. So please don't feel like there's not. There's plenty of hope. And if anything, hopefully that's what we get across this in this episode. But there used to be, they used to give people enemas, they used to give people baths, positive thinking, diet, exercise.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
And what's interesting, Chuck, is some of those are still prescribed today, depending on the severity of your depression.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah. Just as an aside, every time I think of depression being like really accurately portrayed, I think of Kirsten Dunst in Melancholia, the Lars von Trier movie. Lars von Trier, of all people, seems to have most accurately portrayed clinical depression.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
In that movie. It is a great movie, but she just does an amazing job. Like there's a part where she's just in physical pain, such physical pain from being so depressed that like she, can barely crawl into a bath.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
For sure. So we should say that you rarely will get an enema when you present yourself to a physician and are diagnosed with clinical depression, major depressive disorder. Instead, they will prescribe you pills, antidepressants.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
And the reason that they will prescribe you antidepressants is because ever since the 70s, people have kind of basically treated depression based on what's called the biological model. And the biological model says that you're depressed because there's an imbalance of neurotransmitters, chemicals in your brain. And usually they zero in on serotonin.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
They say you are depressed because you have low levels of serotonin. And that's been the dominant view for decades now. That's how we treat depression is based on that presumption.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah, so much so we have so little of a grasp on how people become depressed, especially like MDD depressed. Studies show that people with MDD aren't likelier to have lower levels of serotonin than other people. And that just throws out basically the whole premise of the biological model. And yet, we know that antidepressants work. They work better than placebo.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
They're definitely doing something. And we know that by design, what they're doing is going in and messing with the concentration of neurotransmitters in your brain. We know they're doing that. We just don't know how that mechanism is treating the depression. We just know it works. And I guess over the years, psychologists or psychiatrists and doctors have been like, let's just not ask questions.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Yeah, that's a newish, from what I can tell, rival theory to the biological model, even though it's biological itself. It's very, very confusing stuff. But the idea, remember you said earlier that like you differentiate, you know, MDD or even just non-major depression, but, you know, diagnosable depression from just a passing feeling of the blues, right, for like a day or so.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Sure. So this theory basically says that thing that people normally come out of, people get stuck in it. It just seems to get worse and worse and worse the longer you're stuck in it or the harder you're stuck in it. So I love that theory, and there's actually support for it because some of the newer, more far-out treatments, psychedelics in particular, like ketamine and psilocybin,
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
they have been basically irrefutably shown to treat major depressive disorder really well. And we know that psilocybin, for example, goes in and basically rewires your brain. So that would support the idea that it's a change in neuroplasticity that antidepressants create that helps treat depression.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Right. That's where the money is. They go to the horse's mouth. That's another word for the synapse. That's what neurologists call it, the horse's mouth.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
Right. Here's the twist to all that, though. Neurotransmitters do all sorts of other things besides, say, like regulate your mood. I think serotonin does all sorts of crazy stuff like it helps regulate sleep, digestion, nausea, blood clotting, bone growth. It does everything right. So if you start messing with the serotonin in your brain.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
It can also start to mess with the other functions that serotonin does, hence side effects. And so those are something that we are still figuring out, too. But luckily, that's another thing we're getting a handle on is the side effects.
Stuff You Should Know
How Antidepressants Work
The dessert knife is a little smaller, fancier. It's got kind of a sharp, pointy end that you could easily drive through the hand of the person sitting next to you at the table.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Okay, Chuck, so we're back and we're finally talking about the titular scam, Operation Flagship.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Thank you. It's arousing. I can't think of another word for it, but let's just say arousing. Yeah, yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah, this particular game versus the Bengals on December 15th, 1985, it was to whoever won was going to win a wild card playoff berth, which has significance. So it was an important game.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Thank you. Also, not to mention, too, I mean, even looking back, you're like, wow, these guys were great. But at the time, these two were at the peak of their careers. It was Theismann versus Esiason as far as the quarterbacks went.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah, that was horrific. I mean, it was a compound fracture that came out of his thigh, right? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
One of the ones that got me, there was a Miami Hurricanes player in early 2000s. And he was like running down the sideline and somebody dove to knock him out of, well, out of bounds. And and they got him right in his knee and his knee turned into like his whole his whole leg. But the apex was his knee just turned into a rubber band that went really far to the left.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
This was the zeitgeist at the time. They showed that injury in slow motion 15 times while the dude was laying on the field. They didn't cut to anything. They just kept showing it over and over like it was a new volume of Faces of Death or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
But yeah. So anyway, that was that was it's forever burned into my brain that that image. And I don't think he broke anything. He just apparently is like the most flexible, resilient leg of anybody's.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
And there's our daily assistance in helping criminals evade capture by law enforcement.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if he was fine. I don't remember that. I just remember like I don't think he was like anything broke. It just went.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah. But ironically, I think he had the nickname before that because he could play the rubber bands on his knee.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Oh, yeah. We're talking about the cops. Yeah, that's right.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Like, really? Right. So even if even taking that one out, it is 100 percent confirmed that they signed it. I am wanted backwards. I am debt and all.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
So we're talking about one specific operation, Operation Flagship, which was conducted by the U.S. Marshal Service back in, I think, 1985. And It's just kind of mind boggling. What did you hear about this? Did it did somebody write in or did you already know about it being an NFL fan?
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah. So like this is like these are the things that they're doing to just make it like a whole teehee thing. Right. Right. To where if you again, for no reason, no reason, but to amuse themselves like there's no reason. As we'll see, I'm sure part of the reason also is for the media blitz that they knew was coming after they showed this off.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
But. Not only is there really no reason for it, you're actually sacrificing potential captures. Yeah. Because there's. You're tempting fate. Some of these people have wives. All you had to do was show your wife that letter and say, this is wanted backwards, you know.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah. How many of these people were like fell through the dragnet because they saw that Detnaw is wanted backwards. And they're like, I think this is not legitimate. Yeah.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yes. And I thought something you mentioned is worth emphasizing that being entered in a grand prize drawing for tickets to Super Bowl 20 in New Orleans.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
That actually struck me as a really nice touch because now you've moved the focus a little further out and you're diluting the focus that's being paid to this most immediate thing. So they're thinking about something else as well. Really, I thought that really was a good touch.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
So to get prepared for this whole thing, they held three different dress rehearsals. That's dedicated for sure because this was a big production. And it was smart that they held three different dress rehearsals because, again, there's a lot of moving parts. There's a ton of different cops. I think 166 different agents were involved.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah, the janitors were cops. Everybody was cops. Like when you walked into the Washington Convention Center that day, there was no one who wasn't a cop, a wanted fugitive, or the plus one of the wanted fugitive who had the haplessness of being brought along to this whole show. Yeah, the real victims. Yeah. So, so they, they rehearsed it many, many times.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
And one of the things I saw of these 166 law enforcement agents that were part of this, a lot of them were brought in from out of state because they didn't want to risk some of these fugitives from recognizing the, the marshals who say like were in the courtroom with them when they were first brought to trial or whatever.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
had escorted them from jail to prison before they escaped or something like that. So they brought in a lot of ringers from around the country. So there was a lot of cops working from a lot of different offices, all for this one huge scam operation flagship.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah, I made it through up to, I think, minute three. I was like, I cannot watch law enforcement try to play it tongue in cheek. It's just, I can't do it.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
What was that? There's some movie where they do that to great comedic effect.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah. I can't remember, but they're like hugging people while patting them down, but like just clearly patting them down. Man, that's going to drive me crazy.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Or somebody will email in, but at least one person does. So, yeah, like we said, everybody there who was in this building was a cop, including the San Diego Chicken was armed, was an armed cop.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
So how I keep talking while you look. OK. So the U.S. Marshal Service, they're one of the first American law enforcement agencies. They were founded back in 1789. Dave helped us with this. It's Dave Week, by the way. Oh, yeah. As Dave put it, in the time of George Washington— So they've been around quite a bit.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
That just goes to show you how big the San Diego Chicken was in the early to mid 80s, that they were like, bring the San Diego Chicken in for this Washington Cincinnati football game on the other side of the country. Make sure the San Diego Chicken's there. just to legitimize things.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Really? That's hilarious. It's very funny. That shows a little heart.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
I should also say I poked fun at law enforcement trying to be funny. So I looked up to see if there's any cops turned comedians. And there are.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
I don't know if it is or not. But I can just tell you to go out and check these guys out. There's Kevin Jordan, Chad Ridgely, who went on to be a groundling, Jim Perry, and Alfie Moore. And I defy you to find the one Brit out of those.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah, he said no one can act like a cop. Kill them with smiles.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Right. Oh, my gosh. So, like I said, there's a lot of moving parts in this thing where you're trying to nab 160 or so criminals all at once. Again, they rehearsed it three different times, but there's still tons of X factors that can crop up that you just can't plan for. And one of the reasons why they were really kind of on edge is some of these criminals who they'd invited were –
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
pretty hardcore there were like armed robbers uh rapists there was one murderer in particular who was who had escaped from prison he and two other guys had dressed up as security or not security guards um prison guards and um they from what i was reading they have no idea where they got these prison guard uniforms but they managed to escape the other two guys got caught
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
The other guy, Charles Watkins, again, who was in on murder, he had become a fugitive and was wanted as a top 10 fugitive in the D.C. area. So he was a big fish that they were trying to reel in. But at the same time, this guy's a murderer on the run. You have no idea what he's going to do. So they really had to kind of keep it tight as much as possible.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
I say that before we get to the actual day, December 15th, 1985, we take another break.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
And over the course of this history, like they've done a lot of different really kind of great stuff. They escorted students into the first segregated schools, black students to segregated schools. They protected them. They enforced prohibition, which I guess, depending on your views on prohibition, it was great or not. They operated the U.S.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah. But so for this day, she's a Redskins cheerleader.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
So what they would do is the cheerleaders would hug you as you were coming in, would not accept kisses, it turns out, but they would hug you, pat you down. Although you weren't supposed to know that you were being patted down, they would direct you toward a table.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Right, exactly. Very thorough. So they would point you to this table where you would check in and to claim your prize, to make sure you were you, you had to show positive ID. And then when they verified that you were on the list, meaning that you were a wanted fugitive who just showed up to claim your two free tickets to the Washington Redskins football game, they would give you a name tag.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Census, which seems like they were at the time just really looking for busy work for the marshal service.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
And the name tag would say confirmed winner. And then if you were a dangerous criminal, they would give you a name tag that said double winner. And I could not find anywhere how they would explain why somebody was a double winner and not just a confirmed winner. Like, hey, what does that mean? Right, exactly. Like, why me? I have no idea what they said.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Surely they had to say something, but I could not find it. It's lost to history.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
No, they took him outside. They had to keep it under wraps. So, okay, you want to talk about unexpected guests?
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Do you want to know the definition of a scumbag? Sure. A fugitive who gets caught up in the dragnet of a scam carried out by the U.S. Marshal Service in 1985 and shows up without bothering the RSVP. There were 15 of them.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
And then and turn them loose. And then famously, Chuck, anytime you hear somebody call like a Wild West law enforcement guy marshal.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yep. They just showed up. Didn't even bother the RSVP. It just got under my skin when I saw that. This is bad manners. For sure. So there was a decent amount of people in this convention center. I mean, 100 and something, 150 cops? Yeah. I think 160, a little over one cop to one fugitive. And then most of these fugitives had a plus one, if not all of them.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
So there is hundreds of people in this convention center. And like you said, it was a big party atmosphere. But right under the surface, there's a bunch of people with guns ready to, like, take you to jail. But the problem is you can't just round everybody up all at once, right? No. So what they did was pretty clever.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
They would take 15 to 20 winners at a time to one of like the separate conference rooms in this convention center, which really, it made me nostalgic, Chuck, because we played a show or two in the conference room of a convention center, you know? Yeah. Australia loves those. Yeah, yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
And they would sit them down and they would present them with some, I guess, spiel to start as they shut the doors and everybody was settling into their chairs.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
They were a U.S. marshal. That was one of the roles they played. They served as the long arm of the law in the Wild West era of American history.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
I have to say something really quick while I was researching this. I had a great little brush with coincidence that I was reading. I got to that part where McKinney says everybody's under arrest. And I just happened to be listening to the Beach Boys Smile album at the time.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
It's not something I listen to a lot. I just happened to decide to listen to that while I was researching this. And within seconds of reading that part, it reaches the part in the Beach Boys album where they say, you're under arrest. Wow. I mean, that's something, right? I mean, that's not your everyday coincidence. No, I love stuff like that. I do, too. So anyway, back to the story.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Dave, like I said, helped us with this and he wondered something that I did as well. What happened to all the guests who are like the crowd of plus ones are getting left behind in larger and larger droves as this party room is like, you know, set and reset and people get taken out of the back door to jail.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
And no one knows. I mean, no, at least no one ever covered what happened. Yeah.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Oh, I don't know about that. I don't know about that.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
For sure. Especially those wives that found out that their husbands didn't let them read the letter. Right. From I am Dettinol.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Oh, my God. There are definitely plus ones like that.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Oh, man. So when this whole thing was pulled off, the reason why the NFL films little mini documentary is so thorough is the media was there and it would make sense. The media was there because this is supposed to be some big deal celebration. So you see people who are like fugitives about to be arrested coming into the convention center, like party, like into the cameras.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
that are really there to film their arrest, but they think they're there to film this big celebration because they won these tickets. The LA Times was there. CBS News was there. Washington Post was there. Journalists were allowed to go basically everywhere. They were allowed to interview all of the higher-ups conducting this thing.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
I guess they were just required to basically play it straight and pretend like They didn't know what was going on. But as a result of this direct involvement of the media, there was a huge national celebration for how great the U.S. Marshal Service was and how well they pulled off this amazing sting with not a single shot fired.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
And aside from violently throwing some of these people to the floor, totally nonviolent roundup of 100 plus perps.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's super efficient. And again, not a single shot fired. And don't forget, they nabbed Charles Watkins, the big fish they were trying to reel in. The murderer who had escaped from prison dressed as a prison guard, which really is If you're going to escape from prison, that's a real black eye to that particular prison, dressing up as one of their own guards and escaping.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
So it was a big deal that they caught this guy. And Stanley Morris, who was the head of the Marshal Service at the time, was quoted in the L.A. Times saying, it's a safe, clean and creative way to get these people off the streets. There's no safer way to make an arrest than away from the home environment.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah, it was a December 2024 episode. So what I'm guessing is that the listener wrote in after hearing the Criminal episode.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah, according to Criminal, like, he finally was able to convince them by showing, like, some ID and some other, like, identification, saying, like, I'm not the guy you're looking for. You're looking for my son. And huge, again, hat tip to Criminal. They did some serious digging. Like, I was listening to it, and Alan Goldberg, who is a huge source for this, they're the ones that he talked to.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
This is not like all over the place. Like they found this guy and managed to just completely turn all of the coverage of Operation Flagship. Still today, when you read contemporary stuff about Operation Flagship, it is unquestioningly written about as just this perfect success. They found this guy who was like, this is not actually how it went at all.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
There's actually, in addition to getting the wrong Charles Watkins, the other big fish they were trying to get, Lloyd Golden. He was a top 10 wanted fugitive for armed robbery. And this Alan Goldberg, you know, God bless him for his journalist streak. He dug into Lloyd Golden and found that he was wanted for selling some drugs, not armed robbery. He wasn't on any kind of top 10 list.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
So that's bad enough. But when you really start digging into it, you're like, well, this is not only a waste of money, it turns out, even though it was super efficient. It's actually legal, but pretty unethical considering who they actually did nab in this dragnet.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
And now remember, a lot of these people were thrown to the ground regardless of their of what they were wanted for. They were a fugitive and they were thrown to the ground violently in some cases for traffic offenses.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
He's like, I want to speak to Mr. Dutton on now. Right.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah, pretty impressive. Thirty five hundred fugitives in eight weeks over four states and parts of Mexico. That's with no scams whatsoever. Right.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
I think the answer is that starting in 1986, they went to nothing but beer and wine at their Christmas parties.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
So one of the things about Operation Flagship is that it is so nuts that it actually happened. And when you just step back and look at it from the, you know, from the total outside and how great it was and everything, it's extremely entertaining. Cops smart. Criminals stupid. Can you believe they fell for this? There's football involved like it has everything you could possibly want. Right.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
So it did actually inspire some stuff. Like we said, that whole Mr. Zip thing inspired like the got some rose delivery for you, fugitive. Yeah. This specific Operation Flagship inspired apparently the opening scene in Sea of Love with Al Pacino. Where Samuel L. Jackson is among the fugitives who were tricked into a Meet the Yankees scam.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah. And Tommy Lee Jones doesn't care if you're innocent. His job is to get you and bring you back to jail. No, no. Kill my wife. I don't care. So great, man. One of the great lines in movie history. So, yeah, you can be a fugitive all sorts of ways. And regardless of how it is, the U.S. Marshals are out there to get you. Yeah.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
So have you seen the movie Trap, M. Night Shyamalan's vehicle for his daughter's musical career?
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Okay. So I know I am a sentient adult human being, and I know that a lot of M. Night Shyamalan's, some of his films are bad. Yeah. Just bad. Terrible. I hated Signs. hated signs. Although that was largely because of Mel Gibson's acting. Most of them are pretty bad to me.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Well, that's what I was going to say. I will still watch every movie that that man puts out because they're so imaginative, so creative. I also love the cinematography in his films. It's always so dark and moody. Yeah, they look pretty good. The Sixth Sense is one of the greatest films of all time.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
And even like you can give up on him and then come back years later and watch the stuff that you missed. And you're like, man, I love this stuff. It's such a great thing to watch on like Saturday afternoon or something like that.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Good? Bad? No. It's really good. It's a really good show. He does a great job. He's a confounding filmmaker. Yeah. You know? Just watch Servant. I think you'll like it. I haven't seen all of the seasons. I might have seen the first three, and then I stopped. But I can tell you the first three are definitely worth watching. I think you'll get sucked in pretty quick.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
And for the most part, when they get you, it's because they've tracked you down. Maybe they got a tip. Maybe they just started looking for you and they found that you're actually at your last known address.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah. Yes. I'm sorry. I've watched it yesterday. I guess I was watching it and I noticed something that I'd never noticed before. What was it? At the head of the scene, at the beginning, as they're pulling up to the police station, Homer's falling for a scam like Operation Flagship, but instead of Redskins tickets, it's a free motorboat.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
So he's all ready for this. He's wearing a captain's hat, driving the family up to the police station to claim his free motorboat. And at the beginning of the scene, as they're pulling up, Lou, one of the cops, has the door kind of like slightly jarred and is peeking out. Right when he sees Homer pull up, he like closes the door real quick. Yeah. Oh, my God. You have to see it.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Like, I can't do it justice. It's just this extra quick little thing that did not need to be added at all, but makes that whole scene so just perfect.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah. Season nine is the whole episode, by the way, to Lisa. The skeptic is like, yeah, one of the like more heartfelt episodes around to so good.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah. Thank you, Dave. That was great. We appreciate the assist on this one and on Harry Belafonte. It's Dave Week, everybody. That's right. And since I said it's Dave Week again, that unlocked listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
And they arrest people quite frequently. I think I saw that they rounded up like 75,000 fugitives in 2023 or 24. Okay. They arrest a lot of people. But for some reason, during the early to mid 80s, the U.S. Marshal Service went on what can only be described as a cutesy streak.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
That's right. I like to have a balanced breakfast. I like the dessert part with a bunch of pancakes or French toast and syrup. Then I also like the eggs and the bacon part too.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Well, yeah, I'm the same way. I don't typically eat breakfast. So if I'm going to eat breakfast breakfast, like it's going to be something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
I gave up cereal and I'm the better off for it. I just have to admit.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
That's right. Nice work, Charles. Well, if you want to be like Aaron and vindicate me, bring it on. You can send us an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
They clearly did. I mean, like these things, this whole thing was hatched hours into an office Christmas party in 1979. That's the only explanation for this.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah. It is you. I think that was actually in The Fugitive, too.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah, I mean, it's been in a lot of different movies, but... Like Here Are Your Roses, that kind of thing?
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
So I don't know if this is actually the origin of it or not, but it certainly seems to be because I don't get the impression that they did a lot of this stuff before this era.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
That was pretty fun. Yeah. So Puno means fist in Spanish.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yes, that is inherently the problem behind this whole thing is a lot of this. I was about to say steps, but I'm just going to say missteps that happen to work out in their favor. We're just basically like, hey, criminals, do you speak Spanish? Do you think anybody would ever name their airline Fist Airline? Well, they want to give you a free weekend to the Bahamas.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
That was the Puno Airlines thing. And I love it. Like, I think it's cool, like in retrospect. But when you stop and actually think of it from a law enforcement perspective, you just end up pinching the bridge of your nose. But it actually worked.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah, for sure. I think it was right next to Air Haiti.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
So, I know. I'm sorry. I've really messed with reality. That was 1985. There was another one the year before, Fist 7. Yeah. Right? But they would spell it with Roman numerals to make it look super cool. It's so funny. Because I think this is, yeah, this is the era of the Rocky sequels.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah. That one was enormous. It was a multi-state, multi-agency sting operation. There were 113 marshals involved, five ATF agents, 105 police officers, all from across eight different states. And it involved a bunch of different scams that really all together were part of this one big sweep that was just coordinated by the Marshal Service.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Um, there was one pretty straightforward in Buffalo where they wrote letters to fugitives and said, Hey, um, you don't know this, but you won $10,000 in the lottery. You know, that lottery you may or may not have ever played. Well, you won $10,000, but we can't give you the money unless you come to the lotto office and show us your ID and then you can claim your prize.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
That one actually seems like the most effective one because it almost has like a scam sense to it, like outwardly, like overtly.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Right. It's all called this number. Have we got an opportunity for you?
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
I agree with you. In New York, part of FIST 7, their sting was called the Brooklyn Bridge Delivery Service. Not to be confused with New York's finest taxi service, but it's basically the same thing. Their motto was don't mess with the rest, come to the best. And it was essentially the same thing as Mr. Zip as far as the scam goes.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
But they would just leave like we missed you slips on their door saying you have a package that you need to come pick up. And there was a guy involved in this scam. I can't remember his name. But, oh, Robert Leshorn. He was one of the chief or deputy chief marshals. And this was his scam. And so part of it was the criminal would call to find out where to pick up their package.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
And depending on what they were wanted for, he would tailor what was supposedly in the package. So he said, like, if you were wanted for robbery or theft or something, it would be like a brand new stereo or something. Yeah. He would tailor it, which made sense, and apparently that worked to a certain extent.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
But all of these, all of them pale in comparison to the one that they ran in Hartford, Connecticut.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
No, not a chance. As a matter of fact, we should probably just stop after this one because no scam in the history of law enforcement has ever been greater than this one.
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D'oh! Operation Flagship
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff You Should Know, the freeze edition.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
I saw that part of the package that they won was also a photo shoot. I saw that in a couple of places.
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Yeah. Oh, okay. And then one of the marshals who headed up the Hartford, Connecticut Boy George scam said,
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
um said it was just like one of the other ones where like when you went to get picked up by this limo right when you got in the limo they arrested you he said all these people that they got with this were all dressed up to go to the culture club concert oh god can you imagine what they looked like when they arrived in jail like those feathers that you clipped to your ear yeah yeah like glitter war paint like on your cheeks like the whole the whole shebang
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
Right. How can you refuse a photo shoot with boy George?
Stuff You Should Know
D'oh! Operation Flagship
I think we would be violating some sort of unwritten rule if we didn't right now.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
I can't. You know how people keep lists of like episodes we say we should do or movies we've mentioned or something like that. They should keep a list of the different things that we've talked about and then completely forgot we talked about because I'm sure it would be extensive.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Yeah. So just for a quick example, let's say the news decides to focus on crime and that the framing they use is that crime is on the rise. And you hear about this over and over again, night after night on the news, or you read about it over and over again on your favorite news site.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Eventually, you're going to be primed to think that crime is on the rise and you might even be a little scared of it or relating to politics. A politician might latch on to that and be like, crime's really hot right now. We're going to make crime like the main point. We're going to use it to set the agenda of our campaign.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
So speaking of big lists, Chuck, we're talking today about priming, which is the present tense of primus. And what it refers to is a psychological term where you are prompted to respond in a certain way, behave in a certain way, choose a certain behavior. selection based on some prompt that was given to you without your knowledge.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
And we're going to tap into that fear that this person, this lack of safety that the people out there watching the news feel because they're being told over and over again, crime is on the rise. Whether it is or not is irrelevant. Yeah, there's no data that it is. Exactly. They feel that that crime is on the rise.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
So we, the politician, are going to tap into that and use it to hopefully get an election, because now we can prime them to get that emotional response out of them over and over again until we finally move them to the voting stations to to vote for me, the politician.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
I would never, ever run for public office.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Would you vote for me for best all-around boy?
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Right. Two things about that. One, if every if implicit bias is a universal thing and everybody has it, you're free. You don't have to feel as bad about it. I mean, it's definitely something you should work to correct. Yeah. But you don't have to feel like it's just you. Right. That's one thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
And then the second thing, too, Chuck, is if it is true that we all are implicitly biased, say, like along racial lines.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
I feel like you could explain it by saying by it's an example of our evolutionary history not being caught up yet to our current social history. Like when we form modern societies, we jump light years ahead as far as evolution goes. And the way that we think and see the world just completely just hit warp speed. But evolutionarily, there's still a big lag catching up to it.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
So we're fearful of people who don't look like us or have a slightly different culture or live in a different nation. Just evolutionarily speaking, even though we know we shouldn't feel that way, that that's not actually how things are, that conflict between those two things is what the real issue is.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
So we don't have to do anything about it. It'll work itself out in 10,000 years.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Right. So we've made it pretty squarely into social psychology territory right now. And there were some early experiments trying to figure out how you can persuade people using priming, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Yeah, late 70s, early 80s. And so one of the first ones came out in 1979, and it was a social psychology experiment where you gave people scrambled, like a scrambled word list and said, make a sentence out of this. Right. And so you would get something neutral like her found new I. And I knew her is a sentence you could make out of that. Or you would give something like leg break arm his.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
It could either be so flashed so fast or something on a computer screen that your conscious awareness didn't pick up on it. Mm-hmm. Or it could just be presented to you in a way that you're not aware that it's actually related to the thing that you're being, say, tested on.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
You could say break his arm. And so one group was given more hostile word scrambles to make sentences out of. The other was more neutral. And then that was part one. After that, they were asked to consider a hypothetical scenario in which somebody is kind of ambiguously responding or interacting with somebody.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
I think I saw that Donald is refusing to pay rent until his landlord paints his apartment. And the people who were given the hostile word scrambles rated Donald as much more hostile than the people who were given the neutral word scrambles.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
So what they're showing is that you can nudge people toward forming an impression about someone they know basically nothing about based on priming them to feel one way or another about them. And that was like, if we can do that, man, what else can we do? That really opened the floodgates.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Right. And we'll, like you said, we'll talk about some of the more shocking or surprising studies. But before that, we need to mention a guy named John Barg, who became basically the rock star of this field starting in the 90s. He essentially wrote a paper about that said like, all of this is possible. Like, here's how you do that.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Here's how you take the findings of cognitive priming and turn it into social or behavioral priming. And he was very famous for a couple of studies, many studies, but there's two that really stuck out to me that, let me give you an example. One is that he tested whether something is as random as temperature could affect your impression of another person.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Right. So that means that you can nudge people to feel a certain way based on metaphor, priming using metaphor and not even words or images, but temperature.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Another one that he figured out was, and this is the one he's really famous for. I think this is the one that came from his 1996 paper. But he tested to see how certain kinds of words affect certain kinds of behavior. And he took some 19, 20, 21-year-old students and had them do that famous word scramble. Priming researchers love word scrambles. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
And some had just a normal neutral set of words to pick out from. Another had sets of words that were associated with being old, but not so straight ahead that you'd be like, these are all old people words. But they were like bingo or Florida or wrinkles, that kind of stuff, right? Yeah. That was part one. And then the students who were participating thought that they were done at that point.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
But he said, OK, now we've got to do part two, but we're going to have to go to the end of the hall and turn right. And there's another lab we need to go to for the second part of this test. But the real thing he was doing was clocking how long it took the students to make it from one end of the hall to the other.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
And he found the people who had worked with word scrambles that had age or elder-related words Walked slower than the people who had the neutral words. And this was the one, this experiment, Chuck, is what broke open. This is what led to nudge economics.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
This is what led to governments saying like, man, we could use this to like move people in a way that we want them to that's healthier and happier. This is the study that did that.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
I think we can just go ahead and reveal now.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
So I wish you had been a luminary in the field of social psychology and priming research back in the late 90s, early 2000s, because you could have derailed this whole thing before it ever got started.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Because if that seemed ridiculous to you, that idea that you could suggest old-related or age-related words to 20-year-olds and they're going to walk slower because they were just thinking about being elderly. Yeah. If that seems ridiculous to you, you are 100% right.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
It's a ridiculous study and it's ridiculous that the entire field of social psychology, economics, the politics paid attention to this and went all in on it. But what we have, what we're actually talking about today is one of the biggest black eyes in the history of psychology that didn't involve torturing human beings.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Can you imagine reading that in a scholarly journal and being like, man, that's really crazy.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Right. There's another one. Remember power poses? I specifically remember John Hodgman realizing that I was nervous backstage at the Bell House once and telling me to do a power pose. Oh, really? To get over my stage fright. And I was like, this isn't working. The reason it doesn't work is because that was a finding from priming research. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
No, I'm going to let him hear this episode. Okay. There's another one. If you make a frowny face and you're shown upsetting pictures, you will self-report that should be a red flag in and of itself. That you were upset by pictures of starving children, people arguing, accident victims that had been maimed more than people who weren't making a frowny face at the time they saw the pictures.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
I think it was they were winning money in like games.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Right. And also, if your study is supporting just a general moral judgment against a certain group, it may have been biased in and of itself, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
If you think about stabbing a coworker in the back, metaphorically, you are more inclined when given a choice to buy soap, detergent, or disinfectant than you are to buy batteries, juice, or candy bars.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Yes, exactly. Why don't you give them the last one, Chuck?
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Yeah. The first group preferred mouthwash to soap unless the soap was Lifebuoy. So, okay. Yes, we should probably rein it back a little bit because our bias is showing. But for good reason. I mean, we should say priming is not just this point of ridicule. The bottom fell out. of this really hot, super sexy field of research that everyone had bought into, like a mudslide going down a mountain.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Like, it just erupted. It went so south so fast that today, about almost 15 years on since everybody was like, this is all made up, it's essentially a discredited field. Like, there's almost no one working in this anymore because most people are like, this isn't true.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Or if somebody asks, like, what was Chuck's senior superlative in high school? I would think back to a fact that I learned and I would say best all round boy.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Right. And this is really kind of like breaking it down to a really rough, basic level. It's much more complex than that. But we bring that up because it's tapping into the different ways that you access memories that priming is based on. And you said it falls under the rubric of cognitive psychology. Mm-hmm. And that is true.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Right. There's another big problem called p-hacking, which is taking data and then making it work statistically so that these random flukes suddenly became statistically significant. That's a big problem.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Cognitive psychology has shown very clearly that this actually works, that if you give somebody, say, a word and you show them a list of associated words, it's going to just happen that they're able to pick out the associated word faster than other words. Well, we'll give you some examples rather than just me mushing it all together. Let's tease it out a little bit like 80s perm.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
And I read that it's not so much that researchers were sitting there purposefully massaging their data over and over and over again to tease out some results that they could publish. But it was more like they were just falling for flukes being more significant than they were. That's what I read, that that was really the big problem, that it wasn't like an entire field of bad actors.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Yeah. And so there's something called publish or perish. Like you basically are advancing your careers if you get published in an academic journal. The problem is academic journals, they're like the media. They want to be splashing and sexy. So they don't really publish negative results anyway.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
So even if you wanted to, you'd have a hard time getting it published in a legitimate journal these days. So that's a big problem. Ultimately, Chuck, the biggest problem, and this is what really tripped up social psychology. It's the drum that you've been beating this whole time. Humans are not predictable computers who will respond in a predictable way.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
If you give them a specific stimulus, that's just not how humans work.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Sure, so the same person will respond differently. You better believe different people will respond differently to the same stimulus. And then it also depends on who's presenting the stimulus. Is it being presented by a grad student who's posing as one of the participants? Or is it like a professor wearing a white lab coat for some reason?
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
That's definitely going to shape the information or the stimulus that's being received. And when you put all this together, It's essentially impossible to replicate a priming study. And if you get the same results, that's essentially a statistical fluke from what I understand.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Yeah. And developed a Southern accent. That one always stuck out to me. Exactly. So one reason why, I mean, when you're looking back, so we should say that there are still people, I think I did say working in this field earnestly, but they're essentially going through and picking out what could be salvaged from it.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
And what they're finding is that priming does work, but like we said, it's going to work differently for different people. There's very few universalities, if any. But one thing that they have figured out that is legit with social or behavioral priming is that you can be primed most easily and most reliably if it's pointing you in a direction you already want to go.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
So let's say you want to lose weight. If you're given a menu that has words like light or diet on it or something like that, you're more likely to choose those items than somebody who isn't interested in dieting. Yeah, for sure. That's essentially what it got reduced back to, which is just barely beyond cognitive priming, but it's legitimate. And that's where they're starting out from again.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
That's the current state of social priming. But just one more thing I wanted to talk about, Chuck, is why everyone bought into this. Well, why do you think everyone bought into it? I'll tell you why. Thank you for asking. Because it reduces humans to an understandable, predictable state.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Yeah, and understand, not feel threatened by, but also to feel superior to. I ran across one explanation called NPC theory, non-player character theory, like referencing background characters in video games who don't think for themselves. They're just kind of automated. And something like social priming... It underscores that idea that other people are like that. I'm not like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Is that right? Yeah. OK, well, we'll get you one. What kind do you want?
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
It's a classic. It's the best of the best.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Maybe he's one of those guys who eats his cheeseburgers on a brioche moon.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
They are. We don't very frequently tee off on something, but it does feel good when we do once in a while. Chuck just said, yeah. And as everybody who's ever listened to the podcast knows, he just unlocked listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Katie knows how to speak our language, doesn't she? Katie really knows. She knows how to flatter. Thanks a lot, Katie. Have fun in Istanbul. That's very exciting and thrilling, and I'm glad you did not miss your stop. If you want to be like Katie and let us know where you live and some funny story about stuff you should know, we love that kind of thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
You can wrap it up, spank it on the bottom, and send it off to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Right. And it's basically words that share a similar category are more easily accessed once you've been primed. Almost like the way that we sort things is by putting them into large categories like doctor, nurse, hospital, stethoscope, right? And then once you open that category by thinking of doctor—
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
You're going to be able to access the other stuff in that category much more easily than, say, something in a totally different category like cheese in the same category as delicious, that kind of stuff, right? Yeah, or basketball. Sure. That seems like what it's tapping into, and it actually seems to reveal that that's kind of how we store memories.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
There's another demonstration that was pretty famous that shows for sure, again, I just want to get this across, cognitive priming really works. If you give people a list of words and one of those words has a letter missing, say a vowel that could make multiple different words, they're going to choose or they're going to fill it in differently based on the other words in the list.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
So, for example, if you have a list of words, bread, milk, hot, and then the last word is S-O blank P, poop. Sure. Or soup. Oh, sure. I think would be a good one, right? Yeah. And depending on whether you know how to spell, you might spell it with an O or a U. Doesn't matter. You're still getting the point across.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Right, and then there's also another, there's a number of different ways of priming people cognitively, but one that just makes total sense, and I think we've all run into is repetition priming. Yeah. To where if you are shown like, say, a pair of words, maybe sometimes one of which is a nonsense word and you have to pick out the nonsense words.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
If you see like in a list over and over again, doctor and nurse, doctor and nurse, it comes up three times out of a seven word pair list. You're going to move through those much more quickly because it's right there in the forefront of your mind. So it hasn't faded yet. So you're just going to pick it out faster and faster the more it's repeated. That's a form of priming too.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Right. And at the end of each of these experiments, it kind of quickly became tradition where the researcher would stand up and point at the person and be like, you've been primed. Maybe adding a booyah once in a while.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Right. So we know that this is true also, not just because study after study has shown that this is actually correct, but when you put somebody in the wonder machine, the fMRI... Got to do it. Yeah. They found that, like, if you ask somebody the name of... Let's say Anya Taylor-Joy. Say who was the star of The Witch, but also The Gorge, which isn't that good.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Agreed. Yeah. Agreed. It just, wow, it takes a sudden turn. It's just really surprising. But yes, I agree. I think that's a good way to put it. You would stop and think like, oh, Anya Taylor Joy. And by the way, the Queen's Gambit is one of the best things I've ever seen in my entire life.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Okay, but if you also said, you know, name an animal that you think of when we say the word dog, what they found in the fMRI is that different parts of your brain light up. So we do know that priming does have a certain effect, and it is different than our normal kind of conscious recall.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
So, okay, that's cognitive priming. Now, imagine if you were a psychologist and you said cognitive priming is kind of boring. What if we could use that same stuff to get people to eat more cheeseburgers?
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Or to vote for a particular candidate in a political election? Like, what if priming works for that?
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Yes. So this is the handoff right here between cognitive psychology to social psychology. And social psychology has studied priming in great detail. It was a huge hit. You'll remember back to nudge economics. We talked about it in our PR live episode. Like it was a big deal in like the late aughts to about the 2012, I think, something like that. It was just a big deal.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
And it makes a lot of sense. It's the basis of things like ideas like McDonald's uses red and yellow in its logo because those colors are associated with excitement or energy or happiness. Or they call it a happy meal because over time, your kid will associate McDonald's with being happy or I'm loving it. It's just a jingle or whatever, and it makes sense. It's very catchy.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
But there's some part of your mind that has been primed to later on associate McDonald's with love, a positive feeling. All of this is examples of social psychology research supporting this idea that you can prime human beings to behave in a certain way just by using the same techniques that cognitive psychologists prove work.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Yeah, I've said it before and I'll say it again. For some reason, some ad exec chose morning reruns of Murder, She Wrote on Start TV over the air channel network for the Burger King terrible singing ad.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, Charles W. Chuck Bryant, the best all-around boy. And there's Jerry Rowland, and this is Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
Had to be. But the thing is, every single other ad is for like Humana life insurance or health insurance or dental insurance because you're you're you just retired and now you have Medicaid. Like every other ad that almost stood out. You know what I mean?
Stuff You Should Know
Behavioral Priming: Buy, Robot Human!
I guess that's it. But it really grated on my nerves because I watched that almost every day.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Well, we haven't said it yet, but OK. John Johnson bore a really striking resemblance to Larry Bader also.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah, Betty Johnson's impression was not isolated. Apparently, people who met Fritz Johnson felt essentially the same way that she did. Like, he was a cool dude that you wanted to be around. Debonair, you could say. But he also was a bit of a character.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
And by a bit, let me just say that he bought a hearse and rearranged the back so that it was like a little lounge area for him when he picked up women on dates. And I saw one place... But it was a legitimate source, like a contemporary newspaper article that said that he had somehow gotten it licensed with the city as a hunting vehicle. Can you imagine anything more 1957 than that? 1957 Bachelor?
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yes. He went to great lengths to escape Ohio.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
That is not what he was going for. You think? I mean, I don't know. Yes, you don't put a lounge area in the back of your hearse for dead deer.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
But either way. We'll take it up with UPI, buddy.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah, I want to just backtrack a little bit and specifically say there is nobody in any interview or any article that I read about this who seemed to think that Fritz Johnson was a creep or like a jerk or like a sicko or anything like that. I know we've kind of painted him. a little questionably, but there doesn't seem to be anybody who had any kind of weird vibes from him at all.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
He was just a fun guy to be around and just living up the bachelor life. Apparently he was saying like, I spent, you know, my youth in an orphanage, having to listen to the people who ran the place, tell me what to do. I spent 14 years in the Navy listening to them, tell me what to do. And now I'm finally free and I'm living it up. So yeah,
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Um, that's essentially, I think the best care, the best way to paint his character is that he was living it up his newfound freedom.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Isn't that weird that they would cash that?
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Thanks a lot, dude. Every time he made that deposit, he'd think to himself, are you going to withhold the milk delivery sign?
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
So one of the other things that he was known for is being a little unkind to friends who were engaged or married or about to get married. He was like, marriage is just another way to trap a fella. Yeah. Whoever gets married is a sap. Probably said something along those lines.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
And then a few years after he appeared in Omaha in 1961, he got married. Yeah. He got married to a model named Nancy Zimmer, who was 21 at the time. And she had a daughter from her first marriage. She said later that they were just too young. And not only did Fritz Johnson adopt her daughter, they also had their own son. So he had a family all of a sudden within just a couple of years.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
He's like, well, maybe consider making the arrow straight.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
You're like, I'm just as surprised as any of you.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
How far away, though? Are we talking like five feet?
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah. You just have to say that out loud with every shot.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Speaking of blind luck, one of the other things that kind of made Fritz Johnson a noted character around town is that he ended up donning an eyepatch. And he was one of those eye patch wearers who really needed one because they found a tumor behind his eye, I think his left eye. And to remove the tumor, they had to permanently remove his left eye.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
So he wore an eye patch rather jauntily from what I can tell. And that just made his legend even more. So like one of the local beloved TV announcers now wears an eye patch with his little pencil thin mustache. And everybody just loves this guy so much.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah. I mean, I've never met one, but yes, I'm sure those people are out there. I mean, they're the same people who wear glasses. That's how they start. It's the gateway drug is like wearing glasses that don't actually work.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Well, you're just an eye patch wearer waiting to happen.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah, for sure. For sure. But yeah, also not as a pirate. You can't be dressed as a pirate. No, no, no. Just be like normal street clothes.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah. I think there's no other place to take our second break on this.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast, too. Thanks, Capital One bank guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
If you're driving right now, look around. I'll wait. All those cars you see, they're all probably on autotrader.com.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
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Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
No, I mean, I can get that. If you cook a chicken enough, like it can be.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah, essentially. The thing is this, that's not a party trick that you do quickly. People have to stand around you for possibly dozens of minutes while you do this trick. Everybody watch this. Right. Stop what you're doing and come over and quietly watch me. Like it takes a real showman to hold people's interest while you're eating a whole chicken.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Oh, I want to see that. Why have you never done that for me?
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
No. So he joined the Navy in 1944. I think he left high school to join the Navy because the United States was in the grip of World War II. And he served for, I think, a little under two years. And when he came back, he graduated from high school and he went to the University of Akron. But school was just not for him. And he dropped out after a semester.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
My only party trick was holding my breath until I fainted.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah, we used to do that where you'd hold your breath, like you bend over and hyperventilate yourself, and you'd take that last breath, cross your hands over your chest, and your friend would just push as hard as they could on your chest, and you'd just faint.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah, I shouldn't have that tone of voice right now.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
It was very strange. I remember feeling like I was dropping in on a half pipe on a skateboard as I went down. Oh, cool. I was kind of like, this is all right. We didn't do it for very long.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
I'm sure Jerry will with her responsibleness.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Pretty much. Yeah, her quote was, pardon me, but aren't you my Uncle Larry Bader who disappeared seven years ago? Yeah. And he was like, ho, ho, ho, no, I'm not. Go away. Actually, supposedly he was super polite.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
But was quite insistent that they had the wrong person.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
But the resemblance was enough that then Susanna turned around and called her uncles, Larry's brothers. And they, I think, got on the phone with this guy and his voice enough convinced them that they should fly out to Chicago. They flew out to Chicago. Suddenly this guy's like, man, I wish I didn't have to work this convention. All these people are surrounding me and telling me I'm another person.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
And so to kind of settle the whole thing, he's like, how about this? Well, let's go get my fingerprints taken. And they were like, that's a capital idea because our brother was in the Navy, too. So his records, his fingerprints will be on record. So they went to the local police department. They took his fingerprints. They handed them over to the FBI.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
The FBI compared them to the Navy fingerprints on record of Larry Bader. And the FBI looked up and said, this is a perfect match.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah. Like if he knew he was hiding from his family and he was found at this sporting goods convention, he would have shot like a smoke bomb tipped arrow at the floor and then it vanished as the smoke just choked everyone out.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Apparently, he was known for money-making schemes more than he was known for acing tests.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
But he didn't do that. And that is a really significant thing. Like he so not only remember if he was Larry Bader who had assumed a new identity to agree to fingerprints is a dumb move to begin with. But he could have been calling a bluff or something like that. Who knows?
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
No, plus also one other thing, Chuck, if you're on the run with a new identity, usually the last thing you do is become a local TV personality in a large-ish city in the United States.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
So it doesn't make sense. Well put. I think that was much more succinct than my whole jam.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah, and initially she said that she wished he'd never turned up again, that they had gotten used to life without him. They'd accepted that he died. And, yeah, she moved on. And now all of a sudden her life, to say it was complicated is a real understatement. Like a handful of people's lives were ruined when that guy, the acquaintance of Bader, saw Fritz Johnson at that sporting goods convention.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
like ruined. Not only do you have like Mary Lou Fritz slash Larry, Larry's wife, Nancy, their kids. Um, you also have like the, the nameless fiance that was engaged to Mary Lou, like people's lives were completely upended by the news of this. And apparently the The whole time, Fritz Johnson is like, this makes zero sense to me. But the FBI said that my fingerprints match this other guy.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah. Or you wear a suit that's got dollar signs printed all over it. It's a green suit with dollar signs. That's another way to become known for money-making schemes.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
And everybody else from Akron is telling me that I'm this other guy. I think I'm Fritz Johnson. But he resigned himself to be like... Maybe this is right. Maybe they're right. He didn't deny it the whole time, and he did not seem fishy at any point. He was also more than willing to talk to the press as this was going on, but he was not an attention hound.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah, for sure. So a few months later, it's funny. She waited a few months. Mary Lou took her four kids and they went to meet him in Chicago, I guess, like a neutral city. And they spent the weekend together. And she told the press later that she was like, he's a great guy. Good with the kids. But we're strangers to him. So it was a bit of an awkward weekend, essentially. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
The thing is, is she didn't really have a choice now. Like she was a Catholic, like you said, she didn't believe in divorce. And now her husband was all of a sudden back. So she has to figure out how to work him back into her life and their kids' lives as minimally disruptive as possible. And she's just completely just lost.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
By this time, Nancy also, she was saying, you know, I'm going to stand by my husband Fritz. At some point, she even said, I'm willing to go back to work to help pay Mary Lou child support if he's going to stay with me. But it just did not. It didn't work out as well. So Nancy took her kids and kind of went back into the background to leave Fritz to deal with this whole Akron thing.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Right. So, again, he's not he's not denying this. He's saying, I don't get this. This doesn't make sense to me. But he's not like he stopped denying it after the fingerprint thing, but not like, oh, you caught me kind of thing. He seemed genuinely baffled by this.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
There's a really good kind of like one of the authoritative articles on this whole thing that was written by the Akron Beakron Journal in September of 1965. Beacon? Beacon. What'd I say?
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
The Akron Beacon Journal. I say it like a local. Yeah, sure. And it's funny because the journalist who wrote this clearly had just read Hell's Angels by Hunter Thompson. Oh, really? He was trying his hand at it. Oh, no. So, like, the whole thing starts in this jet flight that he's on on his way to Omaha. Yeah. It ends on the jet flight too.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
And like he's talking about them walking through the town to the YMCA. It's just like he wrote himself into this article. It was just kind of funny to see.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Right. But there was a quote in there that stood out to me that Fritz Johnson told this guy. He said, I've begun to think that God might solve the problem. And it turns out he was right because a year later he died from cancer.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Right. You don't want to tempt God to kill you.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
No, I said cancer. It moved to his liver, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
I agree wholeheartedly. There's just one other thing I want to say about his two funerals. In Omaha, the funeral was given for Fritz Johnson. In Akron, the funeral was given for Larry Bader. But it was the same body. They moved from one city to the other.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Right. Yeah, fugue state, I mean, it's basically like they are describing what happened to them. But essentially what happens is you have this amnesia, but it wipes out your episodic memory, your biographical memory. And to the point where you accidentally, inadvertently move away from home, depending on how long it lasts, you're going to travel fairly far away from home.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
When you get to where you're going, you're going to set up a new life, the new identity, make new relationships, and you're not going to have any memory whatsoever of the life that came before this. That's a fugue state. And apparently it is actually real. I looked all over for like fake. This is made up. This is not correct. Like this is a crackpot theory that some psychologist came up with. No.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Dissociative fugue is a widely accepted, very, very rare medical condition that they do not know how to explain. There's a struggle between neurology and psychology or psychiatry. Like, is it brain-based or is it like a break from some traumatic experience? And apparently it usually is prompted by some negative experience, but it's not something like seeing your family killed.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
It can be something like being $2,400 in 1957 dollars in debt.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
So I guess kind of what you're saying is he died in a fugue state, like he never emerged from the fugue state, huh?
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
OK, I think that's a pretty good theory, actually. I mean, it does seem like he was not malingering. He was not faking. This is not a con. It's a just genuine mystery because also like he just checks so many boxes for a fugue state. But it's just it usually goes on for what, weeks or months, right? Not years.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
That's what I saw. Oh, really? Yeah. But in that time, you're so convinced of your new identity that you can form relationships that now all of a sudden are jeopardized around the rocks because you don't remember these people anymore. And you're like, what am I doing in Omaha?
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah, hopefully we figure out more about fugue states because then we'll understand a little more about Larry Bader. And if if we don't, then we're never going to know what happened. Like, it's just a mystery.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
A 10 hour long movie. Yeah. With with tons and tons of archery montages.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Uh, so you got anything else about Larry Bader?
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah. Thanks a lot. How'd you hear about this? I meant to ask you that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Well, Chuck seems like he's having an autobiographical crisis right now, and that, of course, unlocks Listener Mail.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. A show in Nana's living room.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Especially if it's in Omaha. I've always wanted to see beautiful Omaha.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Well, thanks a lot, Nana. Thank you very much for not only listening to us all this time, but also for turning Nori on to us. That's pretty great stuff. And if you want to be like Nori and tell us about your awesome grandparent, we want to hear about them. You can wrap it up, spank it on the bottom and send it off via email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah. He also like he didn't pay his taxes for like five years, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast, too. Thanks, Capital One bank guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
No. And it was bad enough. He was bad enough with the bills or behind enough that the milkman apparently said, like, I'm not bringing milk anymore until you pay your milk bill. Yeah. Um, so the thing is, is this guy, like you said, family friend from when he was a kid was like, he was a rich kid, but he was actually really charming, fun to be around rich kid.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
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Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
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Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Hey, everybody. It's Chuck and Josh here to talk to you about Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easy to build the website of your dreams and do whatever you like with it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
And apparently as he grew up into an adult, he remained essentially the same. Like basically everyone who met him or had something to say about him later on became basically unanimously said this guy was a good guy. So if he's like cracking under the pressure of these bills and this debt, it's not showing outwardly to anybody who knew him.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
One of his friends said that he was a red blooded American 30 year old family man who liked hanging out and drinking beer. uh, with friends and his friends liked hanging around him because he was just fun to be around essentially without being like a reckless party animal. He was just fun to be around.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
So one of the things he did was he paid some bills before he left. And one of those bills was a life insurance premium. He had recently adjusted or changed the policy to include a nice payout for an accidental death. And he whistled as he drove off to Cleveland and eventually went to Rocky River, Ohio, which is a little town on the Rocky River, which flows into Lake Erie.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
And he rented a boat at Eddie's boat dock about a half a mile inland from the lake from a guy named Lawrence Cutler. Yeah, Cutler. Cutler. Yeah. Anyway, he paid 15 bucks from a big roll of bills. It's also kind of important. And he said, hey, Lawrence, I want you to put some running lights on this boat because I'm probably going to be out after dark. And Lawrence said, OK, I'll do that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
But it's going to cost you an extra fiver, I'm presuming here at this time. And Larry Bader paid it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
And like a Stephen King novel about Cleveland, maybe.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah, and when it's time to collect that money, Squarespace offers an easier way to collect payments so you can focus on growing your business. You can invoice clients and get paid for your services, turn leads into clients with proposals, estimates, and contracts, and simplify your workflow and manage your service business on one platform. What else could you possibly ask for?
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
No. And the life jacket was in the boat, you said, right? That's right. So that's a really, that's a, so that's a big point because the Coast Guard was like, that was one heck of a storm on Lake Erie. There's no, no way that anybody could have survived this. Even a strong swimmer like Larry Bader was known to be without a life jacket.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Right, but the boat was generally in pretty good shape. The thing is, is like this is not an uncommon thing. Like people drown in Lake Erie pretty frequently. It's a great lake. It's a very big lake. And just as a little side anecdote, when I was a kid, we used to vacation on Catawba Island on Lake Erie. And every week we would go there for a week, every summer.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
And every time we went, I would have to wait on the beach the first half of the week because somebody had drowned. And I was convinced that if I went in the water, they would, their dead body would bump up against me. And I just couldn't even bear the thought of that. So finally I would watch the news every night.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
And finally, when they announced they found the missing person, then I would start to go into the lake.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah, because no one had any business swimming in Lake Erie back when I was a kid.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Oh, you play mini golf and putt putt. Um, we stayed at this place. It was just like a block of, um, like I guess little condos or apartments or something like that. And everybody had beach towels, like drying over like the railing. And it was like on the beach, like the sand came up into your little front stoop. And, uh, it was just great. It was wonderful.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
I remember my oldest sister went on a date with a dude. She met there and they went and saw top secret at the drive-in.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast, too. Thanks, Capital One bank guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Hey, everybody. It's Chuck and Josh here to talk to you about Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easy to build the website of your dreams and do whatever you like with it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Yeah, and when it's time to collect that money, Squarespace offers an easier way to collect payments so you can focus on growing your business. You can invoice clients and get paid for your services, turn leads into clients with proposals, estimates, and contracts, and simplify your workflow and manage your service business on one platform. What else could you possibly ask for?
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Okay, Chuck, where we last left off, Larry Bader's missing. He's disappeared, but enough years have gone by, I think roughly three, that he's officially declared dead. His insurance policy has come in. His wife has said, this is what you get for telling me maybe I will, maybe I won't when I tell you not to go fishing. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
And if we rewind just a little bit to the day that Larry Bader went out on the lake and add, usually people say about three days, and zoom on over from Lake Erie over to Omaha, Nebraska, and we sit down at a little bar called the Round Table Bar in Omaha, what we will see on May 18, 1957 is a guy walk in, and his name is John Johnson. Take it, John.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader
So that's not a joke. That's making fun of my hard work.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And in exchange, I think Christie's was the first auction house to have a license to independently operate in China within the next year or something like that. So that's how powerful they became. And then also it's kind of a nod to how valuable Chinese antiquities became when China started to become interested in them.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
But also thanks to you. Where'd you come up with this idea?
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
There was an auction in 2015, less than two decades after China became interested in its own heritage. The presale of this 16-inch vase. Sorry, this is 2010. A 16-inch vase presale value was $800,000. A half hour after it went under the gavel, it sold for almost $70 million to a Chinese billionaire. That's a lot of dough. It is. It also just shows how bad they want this stuff back.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Because there's one other thing, Chuck, you mentioned the billionaires getting involved. It's not just one way to show off how much money they have. It's also to show everybody how patriotic they are because they're buying these things at astronomical prices to bring back to China for China.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Yeah. Lu Yang had quite a reputation. I read in that Alex Palmer GQ article that he wrote a comprehensive book on all the looted antiquities, at least from the old summer palace, and could show you printouts of websites from museums around the world where that thing was being held.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
So I guess there was also a really tense meeting at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York when he showed up, too, because he would just walk around and be like, that's China's, that's China's, that was stolen, that was looted. And very strangely, that was, what did you say, 2009? Yeah. The very next year, this string of museum heists of Chinese antiquities began. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Right. Are they commissioning people to rob art museums? And I mean, not just like, you know, some Tinkertown museum on the corner of a neighborhood that like, I don't know. You know, not a good museum. You know those museums? I'm talking like world-class museums like the Fountain Blue outside Paris. Paris, France, that is, not Texas.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Yeah, that was my interpretation, too. So apparently the whole thing started in Stockholm, Sweden, at the Drottningholm Palace, which is, well, a Swedish royal palace. And they have a Chinese pavilion there. And there's a state-owned collection of Chinese antiquities. And on August 6, 2010, it was quite a surprise because there was a group of cars that were set fire to elsewhere in Stockholm.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And as the police ran over there and were very much distracted by these sudden car fires, because usually that means riot. So I can imagine that put the police on edge. The thieves ran over to the palace in their Chinese pavilion and started ransacking some specific items. I think they smashed three display cases.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And I'm not sure how many items they stole, but I believe it seemed pretty specific. And they were out of there in six minutes. So they were clearly pros.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Yeah, just like Charles Grodin and Miss Piggy.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Right. Yeah. There was another one, what, three years later. And this is a big deal. When a museum gets struck, like, it's not good, especially if word gets out. Because as Livia was pointing out, museums a lot of times don't announce the fact that they've been robbed.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Number one, it's very humiliating because they're entrusted with protecting these things that are part of humanity's cultural heritage. And then secondly, it also practically means that they need to beef up security because now thieves are on alert like, oh, the Code Museum is really easy to break into and they'll become a much bigger target.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
So for two different break-ins to become public knowledge, it's just not really a good thing. But it was also very curious that they both seemed to be Chinese art heists. Right after that, they suddenly became very interested in negotiating with China to give back some of the antiquities that they held.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And in particular, a Chinese billionaire named Huang Nubo, I'm quite sure it's not exactly how you say his last name, because I said it like I'm from Mississippi or something. Um, he came to, um, Stockholm or no Bergen and said, what do you got? I can give you a donation if you want. And they showed him some columns from the old summer pals. And I read that he wept when he saw them.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
So, yeah, there's like a – still to this day, people don't know exactly what the deal was. And it seems like despite what Palmer, Alex Palmer was saying, Palmer basically was like, you know, didn't point the finger directly. But that was kind of the premise of the article that who knows who's behind this and it's possible that the government of China has some hand in it.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
No, I think by renovation they mean the head curators in the basement clutching the remaining objects to their chest.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Get back. Get away. So the Swedish burglars and both code burglars were not caught. But kind of an indicator that really does point a bit of a finger at China. Someone in China, they got a tip the Code Museum did from the publicity the second robbery brought. They got a tip about one of the objects that was stolen in the first robbery, that it was in a Shanghai airport on display.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
So that does kind of show you that China is very much like, where'd you get this? Who cares? They probably didn't even ask that unless they were congratulating. And so when Norway found this out, they decided not to do anything about it because they had just recently ticked China off. by giving the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize to Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo, who was imprisoned at the time in China.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
So China wasn't happy with Norway. So Norway was like, you just keep your airport antiquity. We're going to just not say anything about it.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
They did. They got some people from what I was reading up about it. They were like in their early 20s, not very pro. I think they were up and coming criminals is the impression that I have. But I think crass ineptitude says it all. It really does. They also this is another giveaway. The police found a cell phone in one of their underpants while they were being arrested.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And they used that cell phone to kind of build a case that connected that heist to, I think, the Cambridge heist and a bunch of other ones, actually. And they ended up tracing it back to a group of travelers like Brad Pitt and Snatched. Snatched? No, Snatched is that Amy, what's her name?
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Schumer, yes, thank you. That was a stupid sidetrack. But so these were real-life travelers, and they had a gang called the Rathkeel Rovers, and they were responsible for a bunch of different burglaries and robberies and things like that. But they seemed to be behind all of the Chinese art heists in the country.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
But also the Chinese art market, as we'll see, has blown up so much that it's also entirely possible that it's just like that makes a lot of sense for thieves to steal Chinese art. The thing is, is the string of particular heists that Alex Palmer talks about that really kind of form this galaxy of particular heists.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
What's significant about it is that there was a member of this gang named Chi Chong Donald Wong, He was from South London, and he seems to be their Chinese connection because he kept traveling in and out of the country going to China and smuggling their loot over there. And I don't think they recovered a single thing from those heists, did they?
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Exactly. So the question remains, though, because the police are like, we never caught the highest person at the top of this, the head cheese, the ultima hombre, that kind of person. And they think that even if they had found that person, that person was probably commissioned by Chinese mafia, Chinese billionaires, maybe the Polly Group. Who knows?
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
But that seems to be the case for all of the robberies where they found people. the people who carried out the robbery, they were just hired criminals. They were not doing this because, you know, they love China or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
They were either commissioned to or they knew that the Chinese art market was so hot that it would just make sense to steal Chinese objects because they were going to fetch a pretty high price.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
The thieves would go in and steal really specific stuff that were Chinese antiquities. A lot of times they've been looted and they would walk right past other things that were really, really valuable. And it almost seemed like they had a shopping list of items that that were particularly Chinese that they wanted to steal.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Okay, Chuck, so we're back, and you promised talk of more heists, and I'm going to take us to France. Won't you come with me?
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
How about France in 2015? Wasn't that a particularly pretty summer, I think, or spring? I think it was. Well, let's go find out, because on March 1, 2015, at the Chateau de Fontainebleau outside Paris, which is, I think, beginning back in medieval times, one of the homes of the French monarchs, There was a collection assembled by Empress Eugenie, who was the wife of Napoleon III.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
She was the last Empress of France. And she put together a collection of at least 800 objects. Those were just the ones on display. 300 of them, these were Chinese objects, antiquities. 300 of them were from the old summer palace alone, mostly taken by French soldiers who were there to sack the old summer palace. In 1860, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
So I think thieves, when they broke into the Fountain Blue in 2015, they made off with like 15 different things. One of which sticks out to me. It was a replica of the King of Siam's crown. Siam is now Thailand. And that really has very little to do with China. It was certainly not a Chinese heritage object from what I can tell. Hmm. That one seems a little hinky to me.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
I'm not sure if that was a commissioned robbery or not. But regardless, I don't. Oh, they did find at least some of the people who were behind it. And again, these were just hired guns, basically.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Yeah. Pretty good specialty. This apparently was the origin of the phrase, no sh**, Sherlock.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
It's true. It is. You could see that list be like, you know, Imperial Seal, China Dog, or the waving cat that's fortunate. And then, you know, eggs, butter, and apples.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
No. Again, that hot Chinese art market kind of dilutes the possibility that it's just the Chinese government. There was one, there was a second robbery on the Fountain Blue, an attempt. The police broke it up before it could happen in Operation Bamboo. The, I guess, Spanish and French police got together and they said, let's get these guys. And they did before they could rob the place.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And those guys said that they were hired by the Chinese mafia. that they had been going after three specific pieces of art, Chinese art. And I don't think that that led anywhere either. I think also, though, even if you could trace it back to, say, the Pali group or the prime minister, It wouldn't matter. China would basically just say so or they would deny it or whatever.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And everybody needs to be essentially in at least good economic terms with China right now. That's just the issue is not going to get pressed. So it doesn't really matter. It's more just an academic kind of interesting thing to try to track it back to who's behind it. It's not actually going to result in any kind of geopolitical differences. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
No. And there's no apparently there's no legal repercussions for it either. Even if somebody from Norway or Sweden came over and said, this is ours, like this was stolen from our museum. China would just be like, well, there's no laws here that could punish whoever did this. So go home. And they officially apparently do discourage theft. But because the item could become damaged in the robbery.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
That's why. Not because it violates any laws or treaties or anything like that. Because, again, there's a lot of soreness from the idea that these things were stolen. Right. And there's I mean, it's not even like they make a good case. That's exactly what happened historically.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Yeah, they just walk right past really expensive stuff. But, yeah, it wasn't because they didn't know what they were doing, it seems like. Some of the people who were caught with this were clearly professional thieves.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And so I was trying to figure out, like, OK, if there's museums around the country that, you know, there's this growing movement for repatriation here in America, we have like the Indigenous Graves Act, which is like if you have Native American remains in your museum collection, you should give them back to the to the group who from from which they came so that they can be
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
bury the remains or do whatever custom they do rather than keeping them in a museum collection. That's a good example of this kind of growing awareness of a responsibility museums have for giving stuff back that was stolen from a country But museums just aren't really going with it.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And I was looking at it and I sent you, I think, some parts of, I think, an artsy article that talks about this, like China, Greece, Nigeria. They're all like, you guys have some really important cultural treasures of ours, so give them back. And museums are basically saying, like, no, you won't be able to take good care of them. We can take better care of them.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And then I think the British Museum was just discovered to have suffered an extensive robbery from inside that really kind of undermines that argument that, you know, they can protect these things better than the countries can because this curator at the British Museum stole something like 2,000 pieces from the museum's collection and was selling them on eBay.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
So it's not like China and other countries don't have a legitimate claim to this. It's just more like Western museums are just basically they're just digging in and saying, like, no, we're not going to give these back.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Yeah, maybe even more than half. That's got to be ultimately the reason why they don't want to do it.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Yeah, exactly. I think also in the UK in particular, they have a law that says museums aren't allowed to repatriate cultural artifacts to other countries. And they're like, yep, that's the law. And I think the Chinese government is like, that's your law. You can change that law. Stop hiding behind that. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
I mean, there were a couple of instances where I'm like, OK, this makes sense to not give it back. Like if there's a lot of instability and turmoil in that country. Another one that really kind of stuck out to me is if the cultural heritage is now divided among multiple countries. So let's say it was a Yugoslavian item.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And now, yeah, Czechoslovakia and Slovenia, they're both saying, like, that's ours. That's a ticklish spot. But for the most part, if it's, you know, a stable country is like, that's ours. Give it back. Especially if it was looted. There really shouldn't be any discussion about that.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
You got anything else? I got nothing else. Oh, well, you can look out for a movie by Crazy Rich Asians director John M. Chu coming out sometime soon. Netflix is going to have something based on Grace D. Lee's novel Portrait of a Thief. And there's a 2012 Jackie Chan movie called CZ12 about this very kind of stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Well, since Chuck said Jackie Champ, he unlocked listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Thanks a lot, Chandra. Whole house swamp cooler. Can't you just see like the tops like open and it says Igloo and giant letters on the side?
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Very nice, Chuck. Very nice. Well, if you want to be like Chandra and write in and tell us about something that we talked about that's whole house size, we love hearing that kind of stuff. You can shoot us an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Yeah. So this idea, this concept of the century of humiliation was coined by Mao. And in the 21st century, the Chinese Communist Party that Mao founded have kind of really kind of used that as a point of pride. And as a point of unity among the country, which is really interesting because they view it as a really shameful period of their history.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And yet it does generate pride in them and brings them together. And I think a sense of like, we're going to overcome that. We're never going to go back to that. But that's a change from how Chairman Mao approached it. He was like, we're never turning backwards. And in fact, everything that reminds us of the past, we're just going to destroy.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
So go into museums, go into libraries, go into, you know, anywhere that like landmarks, things that remind us of the past. They call them the four olds. that were just meant to be destroyed. And it was the Cultural Revolution is what they called it. And that's how it was approached for about 50 years. And then finally, it kind of turned and then that pride kind of extended to Chinese antiquities.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And in particular, today in China, There's a tremendous amount of, there's a tremendous sense of loss over some particular items that came from a particular place called the Yuan Ming Yu, the Garden of Perfect Brightness, I think is what it's called. But less formally, it's called the Old Summer Palace. It's in Beijing, I believe. And it was magnificent from what I can tell.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Yeah, they were apparently already in the process of looting the palace when they heard about the torture deaths of that delegation that was trying to broker peace for the Second Opium War. And they were like, oh, OK, well, I guess we'll burn the place down, too. And they did so over, I think, two days and nights. But the fire kept going for like three days.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And rather than rebuild, China decided to preserve the place in ruins. It's kind of like Hiroshima. Like they decided to preserve some of the bombed out areas as just a reminder. But rather than a reminder to never use nukes ever again, this was a reminder to China of like what... outside powers did to China. Like this is what happened to China in the past.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And it's something to use to kind of motivate you to become the best kind of China there is that could never let something like that happen again.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And I think it was the first Pekingese in all of England.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
They're the most symbolic. So again, this summer palace stuff, it was just such a big deal. Like you said, one of the biggest acts of cultural vandalism ever. It's such a symbol in this country of China's shame. And these things are like the greatest symbol of that larger symbol. Like these Zodiac heads mean everything to China. And to get them back is enormously important.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
The Communist Party kind of took a shift, especially as China became more and more economically powerful. And it started to kind of look at getting some of these antiquities back rather than looking at them as reminders of some terrible backwards past. They became part of China's heritage. And the Chinese government in particular started to want to get these back.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And they started a kind of a trend, I think, culturally that was like, hey, start having pride in these heritage antiques. And let's see if we can get them back into China. How? Who cares? Just go get them.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
And those are just museums in just 47 countries. I saw that the Chinese government itself estimates that there's about 10 million antiquities spread throughout the world outside of China. And China considers basically all of these stolen.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff You Should Know. And we're going to talk a little bit about Chinese art heists. So let's get started. Go.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Even if a Westerner came in and paid for them back in 1900, the Chinese government basically considers whoever sold it to have been taken advantage of by that Westerner. So if you have a piece of Chinese art, an antique that's Chinese— Hang on to it. You may want to hide it, actually, because there's a good chance that China considers that stolen and that that's not— rightfully yours.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Maybe there's some law in your country that says it's yours. China doesn't really recognize that because in a lot of cases, they weren't sold legitimately. They were stolen. They were part of war loot, like with the old summer palace. And they have a great point. There's a lot of stuff out there, not just from China, but from other countries that colonial powers went to and said,
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
We really like this. We're going to literally steal it and we're going to display it in our museums. And 150 years from now, you're going to ask for it back and we're going to say no.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Right. Okay. So in 2000, China, as far as like its search for repatriating its art in antiquities, was so powerless that Christie's and Sotheby's felt comfortable telling the government of China, sorry, no, we're not going to give these back to you.
Stuff You Should Know
Why is Chinese art being stolen?
Less than 10 years later in 2009, when the estate of Yves Saint Laurent went up for auction, China contacted Christie's and said, hey, you're about to auction off two more of those Zodiac heads. If you do it, it's going to be really bad for you. And China had become such a player in the global art market that Christie's, they handed them over. They gave them to them.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
But we want to save these shared resources because this paper came out at about the same time that environmental consciousness came up. So it was like perfect timing for that. But it also said, just privatize, buddy. And at that time, neoliberalism was on the rise. And they were like, yes, privatize.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Take all these government-run things and put them in the hands of corporations and we'll all be better off.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
And people are able to use it at their own leisure, for their own purposes. Eventually, as they seek to maximize their profits, they're going to overuse this commons. And inevitably, it'll be ruined because people can't have anything nice, essentially.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Oh, you have too many? Do you have any good Hawks ones? I'm on the lookout for those.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
No, it doesn't. And we talked about this in the acid rain episode. Do you remember whatever happened to acid rain, that thing? Oh, yeah. It can work, and it does work. We actually reduced sulfur dioxide emissions that were associated with acid rain. So much that acid rain went away. And it was like the ozone layer of like the early 80s, I think, in 70s. Like it was a big, scary thing.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
And we took care of it because of cap and trade schemes. So it can work. But how?
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Because of the cap. Because you put the cap at something close to a target that you want to reduce things to. So you don't make like some sky-high cap that's more than what you're at now. You make it less. And then maybe a couple years later, you make it less than that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
So those caps, those little shares or whatever, those allowances that they can trade, they get more and more valuable the less and less they represent because the law is kind of bringing these emissions down further and further. So ultimately, you're rewarding a company by reducing their emissions because they can make money selling that to another company.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
And that other company is actually technically being punished because they're having to shell out more money than they budgeted for because they're emitting more than they are supposed to. So ultimately, you're penalizing and rewarding companies. through this cap-and-trade scheme, but you're also creating an artificial cap.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
All these companies could just pollute as much as they want, but this government is saying, no, you actually can't. Here's your level. Here it is divided among the 10 companies. Go to town.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
No. But let's say they have a cap to put out 10 pounds of CO2, right? Yeah. And they know they're putting out 15 that year. Well, this other company that's putting out 5 pounds of CO2 that year, they can sell their other 5 pounds. So no one goes over the cap. The total cap.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
But different companies can contribute different amounts based on how much of those allowance shares they can purchase or sell.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
I promise it works. It worked for sulfur dioxide. It does work. The problem is, is it's also like it requires a lot of buy in from industry or really heavy handed government regulation. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Right. For sure. And it depends on the on the industry. Right. Like you said, acid rain. That was a great success story. Fisheries are another example. If you take a fishery, like you were saying, and you divide up the total catch between companies. Those companies can actually go around and buy, you know, huge portions of the other company's shares. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
And so all of a sudden they're basically one company with all of the rights to catch all of the fish in that fishery because they managed to consolidate the shares over time. And that's a huge problem. That's not at all what you want. Like, yeah, that fishing company is still staying within the total number of fish that can be caught annually, but they ran all the other people out of business.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
So that's not at all what you want with it. So there's pluses and minuses. It's situational. The thing is... The tragedy of the commons has largely been overblown, and the idea that you can come out on top just by privatizing things like natural resources has been a lesson learned the hard way.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Oh, I see. I thought you were going to say like my teenage years were the tragedy of the commons.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Overall, that's not necessarily the best way to do it, and it can really, really harm some groups while enriching others tremendously.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
That's basically the neoliberalism T-shirt, what you just said, you know? Yeah, exactly.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
No. I mean, that's really a tough sell to a neoliberal policymaker. They're just like, you're crazy. You're so naive for even thinking that. Of course, their goal is to maximize profits. But what's really cool, as we'll see a little later on, Real world examples prove that that's not true. They disprove the tragedy of the commons by themselves.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
It wasn't like, oh, let's set up this crazy, really kind of rickety experiment and see if we can disprove the tragedy of the commons. No, people went out and looked at real world, for example, indigenous treatment of common resources. And they're like, no.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
These people have been managing and not depleting these things for thousands of years now because they came up with their own sensible rules that aren't neoliberal in nature.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
It didn't either. To me, I know exactly what you're talking about. There was, if not high school, then maybe middle school. There was some school where that was called that too. And I wonder if it was like a surreptitious shot at kids, like they're all sheep. Because I don't think that's true. But one of the major uses for commons traditionally has been for grazing. That's a really good example.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Right. And then they were enclosed. And enclosure was this huge, massive, overlooked, world-changing event. And we need to do an episode on the fencing of the common someday because it's just – it changed the entire mentality. Remember our – Episode on the Luddites and how they emerged from a world that was just it just completely turned everything on its head.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
That's what happened with enclosure when they fenced the commons. It changed everything. And the concept of private property like really kind of developed out of that, at least in the West. Right. So we'll do a whole separate episode on that. But suffice to say that it seems to be once the commons were fenced and were no longer a shared resource, that's when the issues started to come up.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
If you ask Karl Marx, he would have said that this is where we came up with the landless proletariat, the working class who had to work for wages because they no longer owned anything. Mm hmm. It created the very, very wealthy class that didn't actually have to do anything because all they had to do was start renting this private property of theirs to the people who needed to work.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
It created a whole system of... problems. And in fact, some people are like, however you feel about capitalism, you can kind of trace this back to the beginning of capitalism, the fencing of the commons. The irony of all this is that William Forrester Lloyd was arguing against Adam Smith's capitalist idea that the invisible hand of the market will always guide things to a good outcome.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
He created ultimately the tragedy of the commons as a thought experiment to show like, no, actually, people aren't guided to this bottom good. Instead, they are going to act in their own self-interest and destroy this stuff. So Hardin actually took it and turned it around as an argument for capitalism, for private enterprise, for privatizing stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
This argument that was originally used to disprove that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Right. That's how it's done, it seems like, isn't it, Charles? Like people come along and create a problem that's not actually there for their own benefit ultimately. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
If you let a bunch of people graze on a shared resource, but they're taking what they can from that resource to make money for themselves, to support themselves, then just because humans are rational, selfish, horrible beings, that meadow or that high school cafeteria will be ruined.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Right. Yeah. That's really interesting. I love stuff like that about how just massive sweeping changes come from just a change in an idea, a change in perspective. And that's a really great – that's what the tragedy of the commons was. It was an idea. It was a perspective. Like Garrett Hardin didn't –
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
to undertake a bunch of different experiments or field studies or anything like that in his paper, which was published in Science, by the way, it was an essay about his own thoughts on something that he presented so reasonably that people who were, again, neoliberals who were in favor of privatizing everything, including common resources, could go to government policymakers and be like, here's how it works.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Doesn't that make sense? And the government... Said, yes, that makes sense. Let's start privatizing everything. And it was just because this guy took this idea and made it approachable. That's it. It's not it became fact, even though it was never fact. I just find that fascinating how something like that can just change the world.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Right. But what if the bandwagon had never been there? Would anyone have figured out how to manipulate things so thoroughly, especially so quickly, too, without this one paper this one biologist wrote? Yeah, someone would have. Yeah, but it would have happened piecemeal, I think. I don't know. It's questionable that it would have happened like it had.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Yes, and. So she was the one who went out and actually did those field studies that Garrett Hardin didn't. Like, she had the receipts to back up what she was saying, which was the tragedy of the commons isn't actually true. It's certainly not in every case. And the ironic thing is this, Chuck. The tragedy of the commons played out, I feel like, for the most part—
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
When things were privatized and outside industry were allowed to come in and have a share of the commons. Yes. That's when it was – that's when the problems really began.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
So I want to say one other thing too because I know I'm kind of known for having a very hard-nosed certain opinion about things and it slants, you know, in this particular direction typically.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
I don't know. In the last like year or so, I've kind of lost my taste for brigidity like that or black and white thinking. So I don't want anybody to think that I'm just like neoliberalism equals bad. Alternatives to neoliberalism, all good. Yeah, yeah. Like I just don't see the world like that anymore. So I don't want anybody to think that I'm just –
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Like I'm bashing neoliberalism as if there's no redeemable quality to it whatsoever. I just don't believe that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
But in the case of the tragedy of the commons, I feel like more often than not, neoliberal policies, again, privatizing shared resources or taking oversight away from the government and just putting it in the hands of the market, has been disastrous for the world over the last like 40, 50 years. It's been really good for wealthy people and helping other people get wealthier.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
But that ignores the expense on the backs of other people that it's created to. I just wanted to put that out there that that I don't want anybody think I'm just bashing neoliberalism because it does help in a lot of ways.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Yeah, history kind of tells us that when outside groups come in and start pushing the people who've been using this thing for a thousand years, pushing them around, it just doesn't go very well, typically, because the outside groups don't necessarily understand this. And as we'll see, that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be the involvement of any outside groups.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
What Ostrom was saying that she found from these studies is that you have to begin the base, the foundation, People who are really laying the groundwork and setting the rules for this, they have to be the people who are actually using this resource.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
I was really curious what the ultimate punishment is for repeat offenders. And the only example I could find was among a group in Bali. And ostracism is what the person ultimately faces. Get out. But, yeah, and that's bad enough in like a Western society, you know.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
But also you can make do, you know. Yeah. There's the Internet. If you go into a store, the person basically has to take your money for food. In a more traditional culture, ostracism is like you're in big trouble because groups rely on one another for help. And the example they gave was if one of your relatives dies, there's certain rights you have to perform.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
And if you're ostracized, you have to figure that out all by yourself because the community is not going to show up and help you for these death rights that your ancestors demand of you because that's just tradition.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Yeah. No wigs, no powdered wigs, no powder wigs at all.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Right. But the point that she made, too, is that that works. That's actually scalable, which is good because, like you said, a creek is one thing, but it depends on a watershed. And so if you can get together with other people who are managing their own creeks, you can manage the watershed based on the individual common, I guess, rules that groups have come up with.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
And that you can scale that into more modern systems, too, right? So, like, say a city has somehow created a cap on how much emissions that the factories in the cities can create, you can combine that with other cities. And now you're starting to manage a larger part of the atmosphere. And then the state can come in and work with all of those cities. And then the state can work with other states.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
And all of a sudden, now you have regional air quality being controlled from the rules that are based on the actual stakeholders in each individual community. That's right. And didn't she win something for this work? She won the Nobel, which Livia put in parentheses, fake Nobel Prize in Economic Sciences, because that's not one that was actually organized originally.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Right. And technically, your parents own that room. Yeah. But because of custom, custom and tradition, they probably respect that room as your private space.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Good for Emily. That's really sweet. When you open the door, do you suddenly open and go, what are you doing? Caught you.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Man, do you remember, so was your room your own private sanctuary?
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
He is such a guy. He'd be the rancher that would be like, I'm not overgrazing. I'll just die.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
I went through a James Dean phase that was similar.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
That's awesome. I remember there not being anything more satisfying than undertaking a total remodeling of your room. Oh, moving stuff around? All of a sudden the bed's over here. I used to love doing that. It just changed everything. I love that so much. I have so many great memories of my room.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Right. Yeah. So if everybody was making one dollar off of their cows when everything was being grazed on sustainably, then if you add one more cow, now everybody's making 85 cents off of their cows because you're starting to overtax the commons. But that person who added that cow, that's an extra 85 cents they wouldn't have had before. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Yeah, same here. That's just how it goes as you get older. It's one more thing that brings you joy or brought you joy that's now dead and shriveled up like an old leaf.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
So Maine lobstermen harbor gangs. Is there anything scarier than the sound of that? Just seeing them kind of slowly come up on your boat and they're all like, they have chains in their hands.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
So, yeah, I guess tragedy of the commons has been largely debunked, even though it completely altered the world for decades and decades and still does.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
It's pretty big. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to do one on fencing of the commons one day and then we're also going to do one on neoliberalism someday.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Yeah, and the Cod Wars. There you go. Well, since Chuck corrected me and added Cod Wars, of course that means it's time, everybody, for Listener Mail.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Modge Podge is better. I think the inventor of Mod Podge is just like, oh, why didn't I call it Modge Podge?
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
I wonder if it was from the time when Mod Squad was out, because it does have kind of like a hippy-dippy flower look to it, doesn't it?
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
I don't know. I didn't ever think about it more than I have in the last couple weeks. I know, right? I wish you'd never brought it up.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Nice. Will you spell that for us non-Dutch speakers?
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Right. So there's always under the logic of the tragedy of the comments, there's always a reason to add another cow and add another cow and add another cow because your returns are always going to be more than the cost that you can offset with the returns.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
That is fantastic. That looks like I just brushed up against the keyboard.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
That is great. I hope you nailed it, Chuck. I hope so, too. You deserve to. Well, thanks a lot.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
We appreciate the email. Thanks for filling us in. I had no idea about bitter balls and eating from the wall, or out of the wall, in Amsterdam. So thank you. And if you want to be like... The name is Hez. Then you can send us an email too. Send it off to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Right. So you're either a sucker or you're just somebody who wants to survive. Because if people start adding cows and you're the one farmer who's like, I'm not going to do that. I find that morally repugnant. I really like sustainably grazing here. And I'll just take one for the team. In very short order, that farmer would find that they were no longer making money. No more team. Exactly.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Because each additional cow... was taking an additional fraction. So let's say that every time you added a cow, it reduced the price that all the other cows got by 15%. That's not a steady price because if you reduce a dollar by 15%, now you're getting 85 cents for a cow. But now when you're adding another cow, that reduces that 85%. by 15%.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
So all of a sudden you're making 72 cents and then 61 cents and then 52 cents, right? But again, if you're adding cows, that's always extra, almost found money. If you're not adding cows, then the cows that you had originally are now getting less and less and less until you're making zero money. So you are forced... into adding cows.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
And that's why it's considered the tragedy, or why Garrett Hardin called it the tragedy of the commons, because inevitably, under these circumstances, which have long been considered to be universal circumstances, basically, the commons will always get ruined and depleted, and everybody will be totally up the creek.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Yeah, because now it's their land and they suddenly realize, oh, this is a finite resource. If I start to degrade this land, it's only coming out of my profits because the other farmer's land is not degraded. So I'm the only one in competition with myself here, really.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
And I need to make sure that this land is preserved because now it's the goose that laid the golden egg and I need to keep it nice and healthy and happy. That's the direct result of privatization as far as Garrett Hardin was explaining, as far as the tragedy of the commons goes, right? Simple solution. Just give people an incentive to take care of it by making it their own.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
And the other way, like you said, is government intervention. And this seems to be what Hardin's big – Like this is his favorite, I think, solution was bring the government in and just say you can't overgraze, you can't graze more than these number of sheep. And if you do, we'll wipe out your entire family line, something along those lines.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
He's like, I like the ring of it, though. Yeah, exactly. It's catchy. So, yeah. Yeah, his whole thing was we, using scare quotes, are overbreeding meant poor non-white countries are overbreeding. Right. That was basically his whole thing. And that, yes, because there was such thing as international aid in the way of food, in the way of money, that people could just...
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Keep having kids and knowing that the Western wealthier governments were going to take care of them. And he was like, that's that's not what we should be doing. And here's why the tragedy of the commons. And to say that, by the way, there was I read another paper of his to called Lifeboat Ethics.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and it's just us again, Jerry Hu. And this is Stuff You Should Know. That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
The argument against helping the poor? Yeah. That was the subtitle. So he really just put it out there. But he basically said, OK, let's imagine that all of the countries in the world are lifeboats. Some are ridiculously overloaded with people, others, the wealthier, more advanced ones. Let's say that they're in a lifeboat that seats 100 and they only have 90 people.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
But there's tons of people swimming around them trying to get in the lifeboat. Do you pick 10 people out of these thousands of people out there to come into your lifeboat? If so, how do you pick those people? What do you tell the people you don't pick? And he ultimately concludes that just don't help anybody. Then you don't have to worry about playing favorites or anything like that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Plus, you keep your 10-person safety buffer in case things change for you and your lifeboat, and you're fine. He actually argues— against guilt. You shouldn't feel any guilt. And as a matter of fact, we shouldn't put guilt on people for making decisions like these because they're just smart.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
And then secondly, he also says that if you are one of those people like that one farmer who is like overgrazing, is morally repugnant, and I'm not going to do it. If you were like that farmer in this lifeboat and you said, I just, I can't do this. I can't sit there and watch people drown while I'm sitting here. I'm going to give up my seat for somebody else.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Hardin argued that just by virtue of a person accepting your seat, they are less moral than you. And that over time, as more people in the lifeboat give up their seat for moral reasons, morality will be replaced in this lifeboat with self-interest. And then what do you have then? So he makes all these like.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Like if you're a rational person and you take emotion out of it, you're like, you know, I guess that kind of makes sense in a little bit. But the moment you add in any a drop of humanity to it, you're like, this is horrible that this guy wrote a series of papers arguing this.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
Right, exactly. So this was his whole thing that, you know, like all of it was overpopulation. The thing is it got diluted or – Taken very literally, very quickly. And it was applied to actual commons, as we'll see. And just it was stripped of its overpopulation, xenophobia, racism, all of that stuff. And just got applied to real world commons management.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
And to say like it changed things is the understatement of the century, Chuck.
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
I think that's one of the reasons why it's had such an enormous impact on the world, because it is so easy to wrap your head around. We should probably say we're talking about the tragedy of the commons. And for those of you who aren't familiar, it's this idea, this concept that if you have a shared resource, a commons, say,
Stuff You Should Know
The Tragedy of the Commons
OK, so the tragedy of the commons became like the dominant way of looking at the world among Western nations because it did two things. It said that you can solve this problem. Everyone is going to have. Anytime you have a shared resource, people are going to deplete it. That's what it said. No matter where you are in the world, no matter who you are.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
And that kind of coined this term or this slogan that they adopted, we never sleep, and led to the logo, which was this open eye, like the all-seeing eye that's watching you that never sleeps.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
As a matter of fact, I saw that he was, I guess the term that you would use today is like he posed as a handicapped brother to Kate Warren.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, I know. It was quite a choice. And only Daniel Day-Lewis would have been allowed to do that, too. Yeah, totally. Anybody else, the director, would have been like, what are you doing? Yeah, exactly.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Oh, you set me up, huh? I'm sorry. That's okay. Well, here, let me say it now. Schlemazel.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
In Portland, Oregon. Yeah, in 1908. Okay. So 44 plus 8 is 54, 52 years? Yeah. Yeah, 52 years ahead of schedule. Pinkerton hired a woman and made her a very famous detective.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Okay. Are you ready to get on with our sausage party?
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, sure. Okay. That was nice of you to kind of give that behind-the-scenes tour to everybody, Chuck.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
No, he rooted out a spy ring led by a woman named Rose O'Neill Greenhow, who was a Southerner but was still like the toast of Washington, D.C. society. And she was really running a very sophisticated and very developed spy ring for the Confederacy. And he found her out, busted everybody. It was a big deal. But with estimating troop strength,
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
No, he he may have single handedly added years on to the Civil War when he told McClellan, General McClellan, that he estimated the Confederates had between, I think, 100 or 200000 troops. Yeah, I saw 200. Yeah. So at the time, Robert E. Lee had 40,000 to 45,000 troops. So he grossly overestimated it. And McClellan had something like 76,000 troops.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Whatever. Everybody likes you, including me, especially me. At any rate, so we're talking today about the Pinkerton Detective Agency. And this one strikes me as odd that we have waited this long, 17 years, to finally talk about them.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
So they could have very easily overwhelmed the Confederacy early on had Pinkerton not overestimated the troops. And I also saw McClellan didn't vet that information at all. He just took it on face. Yeah. And by the way, all of you Civil War buffs, if you can go back and unsend your emails, it's not William McClellan, it's George B. McClellan. I'm sorry, I misspoke.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah. Alphonse Bertillon or Bertillon. He he and I think like the 1840s came up with the idea of mugshots, fingerprints using like head measurements to basically create a database of criminals so that they couldn't pose as other people. And I guess that Pinkerton heard about this and brought it to the United States.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah. And each picture had a senior superlative underneath it. So there is like most likely to unnecessarily shoot someone you're robbing in the knee. Yeah. Stuff like that. That's good. I also saw that this was so sophisticated that it wouldn't be until the FBI was formed that something like a criminal database like this would be expanded upon, basically.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
And because they're just so legendary, you know, like everybody knows what the Pinkertons are. And if you don't, I'm not taking that back because everyone else knows what the Pinkertons are.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
I did. Most likely to talk about criminal databases. Oh. Did I in reality? I don't think so. No. Because my senior quote was, leave me alone.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Oh, jeez, man. I see you in a different light now.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Oh, I say all-around. But then again, I call stovetop hats.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, you can claim her. All right. So there's another thing that Pinkerton did to really kind of help establish his agency as like just nationally recognized and also kind of heroes. They were considered heroes across the United States. Because they went after bad guys and they usually got their man. They were very persistent and dogged. Sometimes they would pursue criminals for years.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Like it wasn't like, well, we tried for a month and we gave up. Like they would just keep going until they found the person. They would pursue them into Canada sometimes, into Mexico and beyond. And I guess one of the reasons why they were revered is because they had a code of conduct that was like strictly implemented and It was things like we will take no bribes. Sure.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Which was a big one at the time. Oh, yeah. Probably still is now. We'll never compromise with criminals. Yeah. We will partner with local law enforcement when possible.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
This one stood out to me. I thought this was kind of upstanding. They wouldn't take divorce cases or any case that could create a scandal for anybody.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Right. Or you better drink this rye whiskey or else we'll know you're a Pinkerton man. Exactly. They also, unless you had a direct order from your superior to, you weren't allowed to use alcohol to get like confessions or anything out of suspects either.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
codes of conduct for back then totally yeah i did not see any stories of like rogue pinkerton agents or that this was all just you know a whitewashing and they actually didn't behave like this at all they do seem to have been pretty upstanding and then so the other thing that really expanded the legend of the pinkertons and probably in part of why we still understand or know them today is um
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Alan Pinkerton wrote a bunch of books or at least published a series of books under his name that were like true crime detective stories. This would have been in the 1860s, 1870s, I think. So this is like the dawn of detective stories. Yeah, I would think so. I don't remember when Poe wrote Murder in the Rue Morgue. Was that the first detective story? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
It was ahead of its time. Yeah. One of the most famous ones was the detective in the somnambulist, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah. I saw there was another one where Kate Warren posed as a fortune teller to get a confession out of somebody.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, but these are like the books that they're saying, like, this is what we did. And I mean, like, if this was even remotely close, it must have been thrilling to have been a Pinkerton detective at this time. Totally. Because this is, again, when they were just a cause celeb in America and did not have the blemished reputation that they have today.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, and we played like a semi-fictional version of ourselves or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
One of the other things they were known for, Chuck, was nabbing outlaws in the Wild West. Because as the United States expanded westward and the frontier just kept going, it was a wild and raucous and lawless place. You might have a marshal. I know we talked about the Marshal Service serving as the law enforcement out west. But it was kind of far and few between.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
So the Pinkertons filled a real need at the time because one of the first things that developed after the Civil War was train robberies.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, in the two years that the Reno gang was active, they stole about a half a million dollars in 1860s money.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
That was a ton of cash. They were very successful. So, yeah, they definitely caught the attention of the train companies. Adams Express hires the Pinkertons, and they start hunting down the Reno gang. And this is a good example of them just using dogged persistence over and over and over again. They just kind of one by one captured the gang members.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
The first was John Reno, not Jean Reno from Twin Peaks. I had that same joke. They got him first. He may have been the leader as far as I know. They also caught a guy named Charles Roseberry, who was a member of the gang.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
And I don't know if they were expecting this or not, but the locals who were with them when they caught Charles Roseberry strung him up and hung him right there when they caught him. And I didn't see like what the Pinkertons thought about this kind of thing.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Right. This doesn't seem to jive with the code of conduct.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
I also saw they recovered about $300,000 in cash in at least one instance. So you definitely got your money's worth when you hired the Pinkertons to nab Wild West train robbers.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
No. And then things kind of went pear-shaped for the Pinkertons. As far as I can tell, this was the first time the Pinkertons' reputation took a real hit.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, yeah, that's one thing. So there's a lot of stuff you'll find when you dig into the history of the Pinkerton Detective Agency. It depends on who you're reading. Either they were pretty great and did some really great work, or they were evil from the start.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, they went after the James Gang led by Frank and Jesse James. I didn't know this. Yeah. But they were terrorists, Confederate terrorists during the Civil War in Missouri. That's where they were from. And Missouri was this powder keg that actually kind of helped kick off the Civil War because...
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
I guess abolitionists and pro-slavery people came together to settle Missouri and they did not get along. And during the Civil War, one of the things the James Gang did was murder union supporters in Missouri. Not even on the front lines. These weren't even soldiers. These were civilians. They were just running around killing and terrorizing.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
And then apparently also one of the things that complicates it is Alan Pinkerton was known to kind of hype his own company, hype his own exploits. And some people interpret that as like personal myth-making. And whether that's correct or not, a lot of historians have delved into.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
And I think the answer generally is it's a case-by-case thing, whether it's actually true, whether it actually happened quite that way. But for the most part, from what I saw from researching this is – Generally, most of the stuff can be accepted at surface level, for the most part. It's not like if you buy into the story that we're about to tell you, that you're just being totally misled.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
So for the most part, just relax is what I'm trying to say.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, and so 300 Pinkertons showed up on July 6, 1892. They were pulled down the river on barges, and they were all armed to the teeth with Winchester rifles and Colt 45s and all the modern guns you could hope for. And when they arrived, they were met with, I think, 2,000 or 3,000 homestead, not just steelworkers, but neighbors, community members, just people who were supporting the strikers.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, they were really mad, not just because they were in the midst of the strike, but because this private police force had shown up to intimidate them or possibly kill them the way that they were armed. And so a battle ensued like there's no other word for it. It was a 12 or 15 hour battle. Only a dozen people died. But that's amazing to me, as violent as this battle was.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
They tried to or I should say they pushed a flaming train car out. at the barges to try to kill the Pinkertons. Like that was just one thing that the strikers did. Like it was really violent.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, because strikers typically recognize federal troops as more legitimate than a private police force showing up, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, they had Gatling guns, like it was demonstrated at the end of the Wild Bunch. That's right. You don't want to mess with those. So, yeah, from those of us like looking back today, you might think, well, that's just what they did back then, which is messed up. But that's just the norm. Not true. Congress actually investigated this incident.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
They were like, that is pretty screwed up that you hired the Pinkertons and brought in Gatling. the National Guard, to essentially put this town under martial law. And as a matter of fact, Congress urged states to pass laws to make it so that corporations couldn't hire private companies to break unions. And Ohio went so far as to say the Pinkertons themselves are now illegal here.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, they trade on the name still, for sure. But it's a massive company, I think, with like 50,000 employees and offices all over the world. But they still use the Pinkerton name. Like, you can hire Pinkerton for corporate security. Apparently, they'll ride along on container ships to protect against pirates. Wow. They've served as guards at Marilyn Monroe's funeral back in the 60s.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
I also saw that same year they escorted the Mona Lisa from France to the U.S.,
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
It is fairly small. And then one other thing where they pop up, and this made me wonder if this is where this idea came from. Apparently, they're bad guys in the video game Red Dead Redemption 2, which I know for a fact that you've played.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Is that where you got the idea to do one on them?
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
That was a good movie. We should talk about the death of Alan Pinkerton real quick, Chuck.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, he wouldn't go get it treated, and it just kept getting worse, and that was it for him. Yeah, he was put to rest near his wife. And very interestingly, he also, in his family plot, buried Kate Warren because he so admired her. This is the first female detective ever hired. He so admired her and her work that he had her buried with him.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
She was still alive and was very unhappy about this, but he admired her that much.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Right. Yeah. And election of parliamentary members, that kind of stuff. This basically democratic reform in England. And at the time, this was considered radical politics.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
That's it for the Pinkertons, everybody, at long last. And since I said at long last, I just triggered listener mail.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
And Alan Pinkerton actually fled the country with his family because the fuzz was looking for him, essentially. And they landed in the Chicago area, Dundee, Illinois, appropriately enough.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Deanna Garman? Yeah, that's right. Thanks, Deanna. We appreciate that. That was a great email. And if you want to be like Deanna, you can email us, too. Send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
And he decided that he would become a cooper. Which is somebody who makes barrels. And I guess he was a pretty decent barrel maker because he did it for a little while.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, this was actually before Chicago had an established police force. And it was a big deal to be a cop. And if you were a cop, they also called them watchmen because in a lot of cases, that's what it amounted to. Like these men would not go into the highest crime areas and they would avoid the most dangerous criminals. And there were just a few handfuls of them.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
But Pinkerton made a name for himself very quickly as somebody who had just like a sixth sense for just knowing when somebody was up to no good and following them and seeing what they were up to, for being fearless and for not accepting bribes. He was as honest as the day is long as far as bribery is concerned. And that made him stand out.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
And he started kind of moving up the ranks pretty quickly and moved from Kane County to Cook County. where he worked in the assessor's office protecting Steven Spielberg.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
From Blues Brothers. Remember, wasn't Steven Spielberg the Cook County assessor eating the sandwich when they come to pay the taxes? Frank Oz? No, Frank Oz was the guy in the property room.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
I'm pretty sure he was the assessor at the Cook County Assessor's Office.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
So either I'm like really just making this stuff up, but we've had this conversation and you were fully on board with Spielberg being the assessor.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Okay, it wasn't two weeks ago, but we have had this conversation. I know we have.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, so there was one. He apparently was bosom friends with John Brown, as he put it. He had a real chance to coin the term bosom buddies, but he didn't do it.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
No, it really doesn't. But John Brown, the white abolitionist guerrilla, essentially, made a raid on a few farms in Missouri and ended up freeing 11 enslaved people and leading them to Canada. And one of the stops was... with Alan Pinkerton in Chicago.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
And Pinkerton by this time was wealthy enough that he paid for, I guess, the train ride from Chicago on to Detroit for everybody who John Brown had busted out. So he definitely was an abolitionist. And from what I read, it was like from the moment he landed in the United States, he was an abolitionist. This wasn't like him pumping up his image years later.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah. I think one of the big distinction was they weren't out there like actively seeking crime as part of the public good. They were hired to find like specific things, specific criminals or to prevent specific crimes by corporations typically. And one of the early employers or clients, I guess, were the railroads companies. Because at the time, people would steal from railroads left and right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
There were just so many goods going across the United States. It was just too tempting. And they started, I think, the first railroad, possibly, if not one of the first, was the Illinois Central Railroad. And they worked security and did detective work for this railroad. And this would be a significant railroad.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
client for Pinkerton to land throughout the rest of his life because the corporate attorney for the Illinois Central Railroad at the time was Abraham Lincoln. And the president of the railroad was William McClellan. And when you put those two together, you have some high-powered Civil War people on the Union side. And as we'll see, Alan Pinkerton joined them in the Civil War.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and there's Jerry, and this is Stuff You Should Know. And we're keeping an eye on you, sucker. Did I throw you off when I pre-recorded? No. I'm always expecting anything from you.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
For sure. I have trouble any time I say stovepipe hat, not saying stovetop hat.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Because I was raised on stovetop stuffing. Did you eat that stuff?
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, we ate that stuff for sure. We ate all sorts of weird stuff like that.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yes, but very tasty and savory. With herbs and stuff? Mm-hmm. And what do you do?
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
You put it in a pot with some, wait, you boil a little water, and then you add it to the water, soaks up the water, and then you add like 10 sticks of butter, which is really what drives the whole thing home.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
And then, yeah, you put it in your mouth directly from the pot, typically. Okay. All right.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Hey, one other thing, too, while we're on a tangent. I mentioned Sam Spade earlier. I cannot recommend enough the limited series Monsieur Spade. It's on Netflix starring Clive Owen. Have you seen it?
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
God, it's so good. But at the same time, I've never seen such a tightly constructed show just come totally off the rails in like the last hour.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, I mean, ultimately, compared to the rest of the show, it's bad. But it's almost like they forgot that they had to wrap it up, and they just shot a scene, and that was it. And it was, like, so totally improbable and just stood out so far from the rest of the series that you're just like, what? But luckily, the rest of the series is so great, it doesn't really damage it at all.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
I'm really glad you guys liked that. Did you finish it? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, that's good. That one fell apart at the end, too. You think?
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
William McClellan, who would become the general. That's right. The head of the Union forces.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Yeah, he did. This was apparently like part of a general plan to prevent Lincoln from making it to his inauguration in Washington. Right. Just kill him in Baltimore.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Right. So as Lincoln got toward Baltimore, they enacted a plan where he was taken off of the train at a stop, I think like Harrisburg or something right before Baltimore. And he was disguised. And he basically played the brother of a woman named Kate Warren, who is a detective who we'll talk about in a second. And she escorted him on another train through Baltimore that went through at night.
Stuff You Should Know
The Pinkerton Detective Agency
Again, in disguise. No one knew who he was. And one of the things that kind of came out of the story that was so significant was that Kate Warren stayed up all night and watched over Abraham Lincoln on this train ride to Washington, D.C.,
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
That's right. That's because Autotrader has the largest selection of new cars, used cars, electric cars, even flying cars. Well, actually not flying cars yet, but as soon as those get invented, they'll be on Autotrader.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
All right. So there are a couple of theories about how Saturn was formed. If you're a regular human walking around planet Earth, you might hear both of these and say, sounds like you're kind of talking about basically the same thing. Yeah. If you're an astrophysicist, you might glaven out, as you mentioned before. That's two glavens. And say, oh, no, no, no.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
It is a very polarizing question in astrophysics and to us. This difference is very large. So, yeah. So if you're an astrophysicist out there, this might really excite you. If you're not, I would I would dare you. I would urge you to try and be delighted in the minutia of the difference of science and how important that can be.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
That's right. The ringed beauty, as they like to say in the biz.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
And then the very icy atmosphere out there is very, very cold. Icy, obviously. Mm-hmm. And so near the equator, you're going to have winds that are going about a thousand miles an hour. You've got a very erratic atmosphere, so it's not like it's just constantly stormy.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
There may be years that go between storms, but then they might go through a storm that lasts, like, literal years and years and years. They photographed one with the Cassini probe in 2010, and this storm was so big, and this is, you know, on a big planet, that it went all the way around and met itself, like a single storm system.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah, that is just I mean, we've seen some crazy storms here in recent years where like, you know, from middle Mexico all the way up through like the northeast of the United States. And I'll look at a Doppler and be like, that's incredible to see a storm that large. So imagine one going all around Mexico.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
the entire planet of Earth, and then imagine Earth's size in relation to Saturn, and that'll kind of tell you how big of a storm we're talking about.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah, it's like you said, they photographed it in 1981. And then I think the Cassini-Huygens mission ended in 2017. And it was still there and still basically look the same. And I can only reckon that it's still like that today.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
We're talking 500 mile an hour winds at the center of this vortex. And they think that weird shape is due to the really fast rotation, which makes a bulge at the equator and flattens things out at the pole. So it's just created this really strange kind of jet stream, this strange shape.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned, you know, it's not the only one with rings. I know you mentioned my anus. Sorry. That's three. I know. That's the lowest of low-hanging fruit, though. Phil would be like, it's fine. Yeah, Bill would love it. But Neptune and Jupiter, I'm not sure if you mentioned those. Those are some other ringed planets. But Saturn's are like those are the showstoppers.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
They're incredible. If you've ever, you know, do yourself a favor. If you've never looked at like real pictures, like telescopic pictures of Saturn, like do so because it's incredible looking. These pictures.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
And you said it looked fake. And he's like, that's real, man.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
That was the worst Aussie accent I've ever done. And I've done some pretty good ones over the years. You have. I don't know what happened.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
It came out so wrong. It was very strange. It sounded better in my head right before I said it. So, yeah, aside from the telescope slide fake, it's just incredible looking. And the sort of knockout fact is we're still not exactly sure where these rings came from. Mm-hmm.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
You know, I went to the same orthodontist as Emily from Indigo Girls.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
want to know something funny before we go any further yeah always uh before we recorded emily was asking um as she sometimes does what we're recording and i told her the two episodes and she asked about saturn and i was like not very interesting to me she said so what are you gonna what do you do in those episodes just like do commentary and make jokes i went well there's probably not gonna be a lot of jokes
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Shout out to Dr. Blake. Hope he's still around. He may not be. This is in the 80s and he was. Oh, OK. And is probably. I mean, he looked at 70, but that means he was probably 50.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah. And just for my teenage gaze, you know, I was going to say that's that was mean.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
No, he could still be around. He could be in his 90s probably. But I hope he is. I hope he's still putting braces on kids. Yeah. They don't want them, but he's doing it anyway. He's putting like 1980s braces on kids. They've come a long way. And he's like, no, these metal bands go around your teeth. The lip slashers. Oh, God. All right. So back to the rings. They are 95 percent ice.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
It's rock and ice, but 95 percent of it is ice. And these are particles. But when you say particles, it could be a particle like a sandy grain, but it could also be like a large boulder like they vary widely in size. And here's the thing about those rings, too. They are very, very wide, but comparatively, they are very, very thin.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
I think the farthest ring, which is 175,000 miles from the upper atmosphere of Saturn, is 7,000 times the diameter of the planet, but only about 30 to 60 feet wide or thick, I guess.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah, yeah. If we had a little jaunty cap, then Earth would look jaunty as well, I guess.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
These rings are separated. Obviously, when you look at them, you can tell there are gaps in between. And some are brighter than others. Some are more dense than others. And because of that, when they noticed the rings, they didn't know about all of them. They were discovered individually over time and named A, B, C, D, E, F, and G in order of when they were found.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
But that's not the actual order of where they are if you just started at Saturn and worked your way out. In that case, it would be D, C, B, A, F,
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
I thought just a nonsense joke was coming my way, but no, that's that one actually makes sense. Yeah. Nice. Nice work.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
And she said, well, as long as you can make one about Uranus. And I said, I don't think I'll be able to because it's about Saturn. And lo and behold, a minute and 20 in. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
So the Cassini division, the cause of that whole thing is the interaction, gravitationally speaking, with the moon. And we'll talk about the various moons coming up. But the moon, I guess, is it Mimas? It's not Mimas, is it? I've been saying Mimas. Yeah, I've been saying Mimas in my head.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah, but I like Mimas. Okay. Because it's not Teton, it's Titan.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
I guess so. But the particles in that B ring orbit about two times for each of Mimas's trip around Saturn. And each time they're going to pass, Mimas has the chance to, you know, inflict a little gravitational influence on those particles. And that just accumulates basically. And it creates a very steady gravitational force on those particles.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
It's just going to hold them right there in place and they're not going to drift into the gap. They're going to stay nice and tidy.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
I think that's a one or as they say, but I'm just excited to report back to Emily that that happened unexpectedly and delight delightedly.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
I can't remember the line, though. Was it that's no planet? I think that's what it was.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah, I think so. But, you know, it's no big deal if you get Star Wars stuff wrong, right? No. Everybody's very easygoing about that stuff. Should we break or should we not?
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
You want to take a break? Yeah. Okay. And then we'll talk about how those rings form right after this.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
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Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
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Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
That's right. I love my Bombas socks. They are super cozy and the secret is in their fabrics. We're talking about the really good stuff like Merino wool, which feels as cozy as a ski lodge. But if you want to brave the cold on the slopes or on a snowy run, Bombas has athletic socks built for that, too.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
That's right. And if you get cold feet, then you got to try those slippers that they have. They're warm because they have that fluffy, sharp aligning and the marshmallow-like cushioning. Really good stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Does it become part of Saturn itself? Does it suck that up into Saturn?
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Okay, so Saturn isn't necessarily becoming larger as the rings deplete.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Okay. So, all right. That means a lot of stuff. That means that we are living on Earth at a time where we just happen to live. And it's a long period of time. But if you if you zoom out on a macro level, cosmically speaking, it's not that long. But we happen to be living in a time where we're probably at like peak ring, don't you think?
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah, I bet they are. We also talked about, well, we still haven't really talked about where the actual stuff that makes up those rings come from. And again, there are competing theories, one of which is that there used to be. And again, we'll get to the moons. Saturn has lots of moons. But one theory is that there used to have even a lot more moons than they have now.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
And one of those moons that may have existed, actually named Chrysalis, was a little bit of a push and pull with Titan, the largest moon, a gravitational battle. Or Titan. It fell out of orbit because of that battle. I guess Titan wins. And Chrysalis veered too close to Saturn, was basically just busted apart by the gravity of this enormous gas giant.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
And then that debris field is what formed that ring. And then over time, over millions and millions of years, Chrysalis continued to sort of crash into itself and created like the smaller rings around itself or above and below.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Some of these rings are formed by these moons. There's one called, one of the moons, Enceladus? I'm going with Enceladus. Enceladus? Okay.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Encelada, yeah. This thing is erupting saltwater kind of constantly into the atmosphere, and that turns into ice crystals. And those ice crystals, as we see, can very easily form into rings. And that is, in fact, where we get our E ring around Saturn, if you're looking at the letters. So I guess the A, B, C, D, E, the fifth one discovered.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Oh, I love that Boy Genius record. So good. I believe Phoebe's is a very faint ring. Is that right?
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah. But the reason we're mentioning all this is the fact that those rings are they're dynamic. They're changing. They're reshaping. And like we said, and, you know, maybe as little as 100 million years, they may not even be there.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah, more moons coming. I mean, because, yeah, just a couple of years ago, there were under 100. Now there's 146. So big changes. So keep collecting those moons, everybody, and hit us in a few years with a number that's going to knock our socks off.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
That's right. But this thing hauls. It has an orbital speed of about 32,000 miles an hour. Wow. It's so fast that it completes an orbit in less than an Earth day, about 22 hours. And if you consider our moon here on Earth, what does it take about a month to complete its orbit? That's really cooking.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
So is their month 22 hours? I guess so, yeah. Because what was their day? What did you say their day was?
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah, Titan is quite striking. It has mountains made of ice. It has seas made of ethane and liquid methane. So it's just an incredible moon. It has an atmosphere much like ours. It's composed of nitrogen, but it has an air pressure that just knocks ours out of the park.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
It's, I think, 150% stronger at sea level, which is, it's going to be like, you'd think you were on LSD or something if you plopped yourself on Titan and you would look around and you were being like, wait, there's odd things happening. Like it's raining really slowly. And someone would say, well, what does that even mean? It's like, well, look at the literal rain.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
It's coming down at about three and a half miles an hour. On Earth, it rains down at about 20 miles an hour. And it just, it sounds funny and it looks funny.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
But it's not a hospitable place like nothing could could live on the surface of Titan. I think it has a negative 240. I'm sorry, 290 degree Fahrenheit average temperature. And like we said, the liquids there are methane and ethane. So that's, you know, what you can't do anything with those two.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
So the name itself, Saturn, is named after Saturnus, which is the god of agriculture and harvest. So it came from the Romans. Mm-hmm. And, you know, Saturn goes pretty slowly across the sky. So the day Saturday is named for Saturn, which is the last day of the week. Yeah. And now we're going to compare Saturn to Earth in a lot of scintillating ways.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
What's the deal with that one? I know it's about the size of Arizona and also has a saltwater ocean. Under the crust, that is.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah, for sure. And, you know, we mentioned earlier the Cassini spacecraft finished up in 2017.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
um it was called the grand finale when it wrapped up its mission because it on purpose uh says like hey let's just get really close and just kamikaze this thing and just see what kind of readings we can get up to the last second there so that's how it ended its mission but there's a new one uh dragonfly that's coming up i believe launching in 2028 and will arrive on Titan by 2034.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
So, I mean, hang on to your hats. It'll be a decade from now, but then we're going to start getting some, I mean, imagine the changes that are going to happen between now and then.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Well, we'll either think to remind you and we'll probably forget. But I imagine that'll be a newsmaker like people on the news will be saying, like, hey, go out and look for Saturn.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Hey, guys. This is from Rockne. I'm the mother of one. It says nother, but I bet they meant mother.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
I'm the mother of one of your longtime listeners. I don't remember exactly when I started listening, but it was back in high school. I graduated.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
I bet you anything. They meant to say I'm another one of your longtime listeners. Now that I'm reading it and doing the math. Okay. Okay. Here we go. Hey guys, my name is Rockne. I'm another one of your longtime listeners. Nice. My girlfriend Anna has never listened to a single episode of your podcast. English is her second language, so she's probably Anna.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
And English spoken word entertainment doesn't quite feel relaxing for her yet, so don't hold it against her. But over the past few weeks, I've been on a mission. I've been humming, whistling, and vocalizing the Stuff You Should Know theme song nonstop around her, trying to make it familiar. And this past weekend... My experiment finally succeeded.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
And we could start with just the massive size because it makes Earth look like just a pea in a pocket, basically.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
I called her, humming it on her own, completely unprompted. I came clean, told her I'd been training her ears, explaining it's the theme song of my podcast. She's familiar with stuff you should know through my constant mentions, and she just calls it my podcast. We both had a great laugh about it. Recently, I heard a listener mail from a mom who casually used Clark as a verb.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
So I figured I'd share my similar success story. So thanks for over 1.2 decades of entertainment. And that is from Rockne.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
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Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
I wonder if when they got the nickel part and they were like, all right, well, we got to find something laying around here that's as big as this distance. And some guy was like, you know, there was one sporty guy in the corner, like, practicing setting a volleyball spike. Mm-hmm. He said, what about Jim over there?
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Oh, man, poor Phil. But, you know, you're right. Nickel compared to a volleyball is pretty good. But let's talk equator. The equator is close to 10 times larger than Earth at 227 miles around compared to Earth's piddly little 25,000 miles.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah. It's a very not dense planet. And some say it could even float in water if there was water that large. A pool? Yeah. Or, I don't know, a pond?
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
You know, I don't know the difference between a pond and a lake.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
I would think a pond is human-made, but there are many human-made lakes, too. So, I don't know. I'll have to look that up.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
I mean, that seems obvious, but surely there's something else. But maybe not. We'll look into that. More to come on ponds and links.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
I was going to talk. So why don't you look it up? Earth is the third planet out, as Modest Mouse will tell you. They're about 92 million miles away, or we are rather. Saturn is the sixth planet away from the sun. And things really pick up after you get away from Earth. 886 million miles away. which is going to mean they're going to be a very cold planet because they get not nearly as much sun.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
They get about 1.2 percent of the sunlight that we get, which means the average temperature in the upper atmosphere of Saturn is a very chilly negative 220 degrees Fahrenheit.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
I've been cold. And when I get cold, I have a very hard time warming up.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah. So when they flick that switch on, you just got to hunker down.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah, because, you know, they're rotating very, very quickly on its axis. Second fastest in the solar system, second just behind Jupiter. But if you're talking rotation speed here on Earth, we're going at about 978 miles an hour. Saturn is 23,000 miles an hour. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
And that's going to give it a short day, about a 10.7 hour day.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
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Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah, and it's liquid hydrogen because of that pressure. It's just such a massive planet that here on Earth, if we want to make liquid hydrogen, you have to cool that gas down to very, very low temperatures, like negative 423 degrees Fahrenheit. But it's just the pressure on Saturn. Even though those are high temperatures, that pressure alone can make that gas a liquid, which is incredible.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
And then if you want to go further down to the core, you talk about hot. We don't know for sure because you can't get in there. They've tried. They've tried. But the current belief right now is that it's basically compressed molten iron into a ball about the size of 55 Earths and a temperature of about 15,000 degrees Fahrenheit.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
Yeah, let's do it. And we'll be back on. I don't know. Let's talk about like how Saturn was formed to begin with right after this.
Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
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Stuff You Should Know
How Saturn Works
That's right. Just go to squarespace.com slash stuff for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code stuff to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
I think if you look at it another way, we were in sync because we were both kind of trying to say the same thing.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah, I mean, it seemed to be the way I read this was like these are just sort of the baby steps. They didn't have like kind of the authority they would have later on, and they were kind of sussing out how valuable they might be. So they were just sort of getting established after World War I was when they were fully established as the SIS.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
But they were, you know, they were monitoring Russia, trying to keep them in the war. They were like, what are the Americans thinking right now? What's going on in the Oval Office? Because we'd like to bring them into the war. And they were doing yeoman's work, you know, providing, you know, the kind of stuff you would see in like the Great Escape, even though that was World War Two.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Like if you're a POW, you might get a map and a compass smuggled into you, stuff like that, trying to foil bombing plots and things like that. So they were like, you know, what do you think of us now? How are we doing? And apparently good enough to be official after the war.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
We should preface this, by the way, we're doing an episode today on MI6, the United Kingdom's secret intelligence service. Is that how you pronounce it? MI6, what do you say?
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Right. So that would make Cyril Bertram Mills an agent.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
All right, so before World War II, this guy was a circus director, and he ended up working for MI6 for about four decades, known only to his family, you know, for doing this work. Because as a circus director, he could get in a little bi-wing plane, and he could fly all over the place under cover of doing circus business.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
I don't think he was, like, standing on the plane and eating a banana, like, on the wings of the plane or, like, doing tricks.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
But he had to get around as a circus guy, and this was pretty good cover. And he had some pretty dangerous missions with these flights as well, right?
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
That's what I've been saying in my head, at least. Oh, no. Yeah. That is an inauspicious beginning then, for sure. But, you know, this is a little, it risks being a little disjointed because if you kind of went down every rabbit hole that we speak about here, we'd be here for days.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah. And this was, you know, this is dangerous work. He wasn't just flying around. I think in 1936, which was the year he started the Nazi courts executed by decapitation, usually with an axe, six spies that were caught. So he had a lot on the line as a circus director, but he was doing it for, I guess, love of country.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah, I think circus director fit better on a card than king of the modern circus. Right. And he was an understated guy. He wasn't flamboyant.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah, I still do that sometimes when I have to. I'm not great at spacing like that. It has to do with your brain, I think, spatial awareness and stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah, it seems like that was the slower part. Where we know they did a lot better was at Bletchley Park with their signals intelligence. You know, we talked about the code breaking and Alan Turing and the, what was it, Enigma machine? Yes. That's right. Some great episodes from our distant past. But they were kind of crushing it over there. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
They did finally, during this period, start to have some women working there that were not just secretaries. There was one overseen by a woman named Kathleen Pettigrew, communications, at least, between home and field agents. She was very proud of her work and said, I was basically Miss Moneypenny, but with more power.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
I think a lot of people from this age were like, I'm basically M, or I'm Q, or I'm Miss Moneypenny.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Well, see, that was a tough one. I'm giving myself a break there because I believe in almost anything you tell me about your dad.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah, it seemed like, and I may just be like teenage boying this thing, but it seemed like they got under MI6's skin because they got to do more fun stuff. Yeah, for sure. Like kind of more dangerous ops went to them. And MI6 were like, you know, we've been around a while. And these are, I think they thought of them, the way Kyle put it, as dangerous amateurs.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
But then they started saying, but you got to take us along at least.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah, I got the feeling and maybe we'll get a real, you know, British history buff that can let us know. But it sounded to me like a Churchill directive, kind of like, I know we've got our section D and MI6, but we need a really super secret special saboteur team. And like, let's create one.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah, that's kind of what it sounded like. But back to Q, that was based, again, on a real person. And I think we said, but Q stands for quartermaster. And this guy was Charles Frazier Smith. And he was the one that made, like, literal miniature cameras inside cigarette lighters and steel shoelaces to choke someone out with. Yeah, garrote. And a cigarette holder telescope.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Kyle said that these weren't as... We're a little more humdrum, but I think a bullet-shaped device to stick up your butt that holds vital information, maybe humdrum, but it's pretty useful.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah, exactly. So speeding along up to the Cold War, we are now at a place where, like the USA, the Cold War was dominated in MI6 by the Soviets and communism, the spread of communism. agents, double agents, secret agents, triple agents. They were doing the same work we were. They partnered up with the CIA in 1948, again, which was modeled on MI6.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
And they were trying to sort of, at this point, balance intelligence with covert actions because it wasn't like an act of war. So they had to approach it differently. And they said that at the time, there were a couple of different types of, I guess, what, officers working there?
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Almost an agent. But Moscow men who are apparently very careful and, you know, gathering that intelligence and then camel drivers who were people they would send in to like on the ground in the field at a local place to ally themselves with locals to maybe. mountain insurrection or something like that.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah, and of course, because it's the Cold War, a lot of the intelligence that these Moscow men were gathering was like, hey, we're not at war, but in case something happens... We know that they've got these airfields. They've got this many tanks, this many soldiers on the ground that could move here in this amount of time. So, you know, it was sort of a readiness operation at that point.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah, 1990s, that is. They are the oldest operating, continuously, that is, operating foreign intelligence gathering organization anywhere in the world. And like I said, if you're American, you can think of MI6 as sort of their CIA. And in fact, our own CIA was born out of, not out of MI6, but they had a lot to do with how we did things.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah. Train all ears toward Moscow, basically. Yeah. So they were also still recruiting intelligence officers, you know, to use on their side. And this is did I read this right? The KGB, their acronym MICE stood for money, ideology, coercion and ego. Were they identifying people within their own ranks that might be, you know, susceptible to being turned?
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
If you want to make 40 grand a year for the next 15 years.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
So that's when you recruit somebody, but for the purposes of exposing them, right?
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
OK. And is that who is that how they got Oleg Penkovsky?
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Oh, OK. Because he worked with both MI6 and CIA. And again, this is during the Cold War. So he was one of the key players in sort of getting or I guess getting and giving information on Soviet missiles in Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah. And, you know, you mentioned the CIA earlier having sort of more. legal hands being tied than they do. Apparently in the Cold War, and who knows, maybe this still happens today, but if there was a CIA officer that couldn't get something done on the down low that was maybe untoward or violent or illegal, They could call MI6 and say, hey, we can't get this done. Could you?
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah, there you go. That's a very clean way to say that.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
That's right. Apparently this guy, and this is how you can, you know, get someone on your side from the, or at least at the time from that side, is if they really like Western culture.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah, they're like a really like, I don't know, American sports and music and fashion, then that could be enough. And apparently he was on assignment in Copenhagen and they were like, this guy loves Western culture and he might be worth, you know, getting in touch with. And sure enough, it actually worked.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah. And he said, how am I going to know if you've gotten the message? And they says, well, how about this? A man's going to walk by you carrying a Harrods bag. And he said, that could be anybody. Right. And he said, all right, how about this? Carrying a Harrods bag and eating a Mars candy bar. Right. And he said, I guess that narrows it down enough.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah, exactly. They don't have toilet paper either. So he evaded surveillance, was making a run for the Finnish border. And MI6 grabbed him and put him in a car trunk. But they have like, you know, sniffing dogs, inspecting cars and things. So they had the brilliant idea. To change a poopy diaper on the trunk of the car that he was stuffed inside. And apparently it worked.
Stuff You Should Know
What we know about MI6
Yeah. He said, have you seen war games? Yeah. He's like, that could happen.
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If we're talking about modern times and you mentioned the 90s is when things sort of went official and that was 1994. They officially went public due to the 1994 Intelligence Services Act. And basically, this had happened to MI5 in 1989. And it's kind of seemed like they had to kind of bring in some bureaucracy for legal reasons, among others.
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They the staff of MI5 and I guess later MI6 wanted better legal basis for things like tapping phones. They had to be a little little more on the up and up. I think that it was the European Court of Human Rights said that if you're an intelligence service, you have to have legal footing and a complaints system. So like you have to become official for all this stuff to be official.
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The other things that happened in 1994, as far as the organization goes, is they were the chief was about to expose. Technically, that's right. But they voluntarily said, all right, we have to be official now. Here's who our chief is. They moved offices to some fancy headquarters on the on the Thames. Designed by Terry Farrell. It's a very secure sort of secretive building.
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And, you know, it's while they did go public, you know, technically, it's still MI6. And they still have a culture of secrecy because of what they do. It's not like, you know, they just sort of made some things a little more public to make things official, I guess.
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Oh, was that with that building? Mm-hmm. Skyfall was good.
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I quite liked it. I'm curious what's going to happen next with that franchise.
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I don't think so. And they sold, you know, the Broccoli family, I think, sold everything.
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Yeah, they've been talking about him for years. That would be too good to be true. No one's smart enough to do that in movie making. Yeah. I don't have great faith. We should talk a little bit about the more modern day stuff because, you know, starting in the early 2000s, leading up to the Iraq War in 2003,
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obviously they were going to be working with hunting down terrorists and maybe weapons of mass destruction. And that was one of their big black eyes, actually, was bogus information that got through. Apparently, you know, it wasn't vetted like it should have been. And that was one of the reasons that the U.S.
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and the rest of the world got and believed bad information about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
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Not my job. We call them MI6. The official name, like I said at the beginning, is the Secret Intelligence Service or the SIS. That's what they became in 1920. But we call it MI6 because that was the call sign that they adopted in World War II. And, you know, let's be honest, people hear MI6 and they identify it with intelligence a lot because of Ian Fleming and James Bond and LaCarre and Smiley.
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Yeah, I mean, learned people really genuinely suspect that that could have been misinformation based on The Rock.
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Beijing, Mr. Herman. So the, you know, the other obvious thing as far as modern day recruitment goes, it's not like the old days where they would just sort of source someone out and very, you know, quietly have someone walk by and drop a note on their dinner table that says, are you interested in a job? You know, come by this office tomorrow alone, that kind of thing.
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It's a modern organization now with job listings and things like that. Again, still very secretive in a lot of ways, I'm sure, in what they do. But starting in 1994 is when they really were brought into the sort of modern era of It's a little less James Bond-y and just a little more, you know, fill out this application and we'll do our background checks.
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Yeah, that's hard to do on your own. But wouldn't that be excuses like he did this himself?
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I wonder if it was a sex game gone wrong and they just were extracting invisible ink.
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Yeah, I've got a couple of two-parters on these next ones about disaster films, because, boy, we heard from a lot of people that really enjoyed that one. And these two are from Maria and Kirk. Hey, guys, love the disaster movie, but I'm surprised you didn't mention the movie Testament. I have not heard of this, Maria, but I'm going to check it out.
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It's from 1983 by Lynn Littman, starring Jane Alexander, one of the few with a female lead. Closest thing to a hero in this post-apocalyptic movie and one of the few directed by a woman. You were focusing more escapist action disaster type things. But you did mention a few that were a little off the radar. So I thought I would mention this one.
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A couple of, you know, in James Bond's case, maybe thinly veiled literary figures. I'm not sure about Smiley. I don't know much about LaCarre. Is Smiley based on someone that you know of?
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And another one that you could have mentioned that was a little off the radar was Melancholia, a pre-apocalyptic film. So have we not mentioned that? I swear to God we did. I don't think we did in that episode, but we did talk about it recently because we've talked about it a few times for some reason.
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And then also from Kirk. Hey, from beautiful Astoria, Oregon. Longtime listener, and I love disaster films, and you guys did a great job. I'm surprised, though, that you didn't mention Jurassic Park, because I believe that fits all the criteria and predates Twister by three years. And it also fits your conversation on the early use of CGI with some of the greatest special effects of the time.
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I have a feeling I won't be the only person mentioning this.
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Love the podcast, guys. And that is from Kirk Klinger. Now, we had a few people write in about Jurassic Park, but I don't know about disaster movie. To me, that's maybe a subgenre of monster movie. I don't know.
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Yeah, and we're not the... I mean, what do we know? If you think it's a disaster movie, then go with it.
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Well, the scale of destruction in Jurassic Park 1 was limited to Isla Nubar, so... I don't know. Other things were localized, too. So maybe I'm just wrong about everything in life.
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But, like you said earlier, it's kind of challenging to gather intelligence on MI6 as a podcaster because for the longest time, they would just destroy any documents they had that weren't still useful to them. They weren't like, hey, let's keep this on file because one day somebody might – ask for this and maybe want to see it, they'll be like, no, we don't need that anymore.
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And we're a secret organization. So let's just throw it in the old burner. And in the 1960s, they started officially keeping historical records. And then eventually in the 2000s for their 100th anniversary, they hired a guy named Keith Jeffrey to write its history up to 1949.
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Yeah. All in unison, they heard this and went, well, we can't have that. So they got going, the Secret Service Bureau is who originally housed both, including MI5. And they were pretty important, you know, aka the Bureau, known as the Bureau, because they had complete autonomy and they also had plausible deniability.
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So they would sort of act as a go-between if there was a government official doing some, you know, spy business, the Bureau could step in and kind of provide cover as a screen for them.
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Yeah. I wonder what their version of FOIA is, like a Freedom of Information Act request, or if they even have that or if they're just like, sorry, don't ask.
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Oh, boy. I wish that was a man. If we had written that out as a comedy duo, it couldn't have been more perfect.
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Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about their first chief, Sir Mansfield Cumming. It was pretty much a one person show at the beginning of the operation. And Cumming was that guy staffed fully, you know, with gentlemen, as they called them, if you were a woman at the time. You might get work as a typist or a secretary, but although that would change in not too long after.
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Yeah, exactly. I guess so. But he was sort of the kind of guy you would make a movie about. He was a race car driver. He was a pilot. He could drive a boat with a plum. He loved spy craft. He got into it. He signed off his C for his last name. Apparently, he wrote in green ink, which his successors have continued doing today, writing in that green ink.
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Yeah, exactly. And they it was like like M and Q, like all those things from James Bond, like most of those things are real. They use numbers and letters and it's not just made up for fictional purposes.
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And everyone's just like, really? Yeah. So this guy coming, he had an incident in 1914 where he earned... This probably sounds like lore to me, but he had a car crash in France in 1914. Very sadly, his son was killed. And this is how he lost his left foot. And the reason the lore was so important was because the legend was the only way he escaped was by amputating that foot himself.
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Sort of like... Who was the guy in real life that Danny Boyle made the movie about that was stuck in the rock?
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Yeah, but supposedly, as the story goes, he cut off his own foot with a pin knife just to escape.
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Yeah. Legend has it Josh wailed and cried for hours until the ambulance finally arrived. And they said, you know, you could probably just have backed out of this thing on your own.
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Yeah. So he must have just searched high, but not low. Yeah, renewable. There's some, I mean, it gets a little grosser. Should we even cover this in more detail?
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Okay. Apparently he had a colleague that reported about the man, one of our men in Copenhagen, stocked it in a bottle for his letters and it stank so bad that they had to tell him that a fresh operation was necessary for each letter. Wow.
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Let's take a break. That's a good little table setting. So we'll come back and talk about World War I right after this.
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And I guess that's probably where the country chic came from because there was actually good country going on. Yeah, Johnny Cash had a variety show. Did he really? Oh, yeah. I knew they did, like, a Sunday singing thing, like, out in Virginia.
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I think maybe nestle it in there and then start hitting it with the blunt edge of an axe until it mashes into that crevice. You know?
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Because this is the time when Fantasy Island had just started. Mork and Mindy was about to change things. Charlie's Angels was getting huge. Basically, television as we knew it from 1980 to whenever the real world came along, just escapist television is what they called it, was starting, and it was the hip new thing.
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So basically, if they had turned Han Solo and Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker into maybe sexy detectives, It might have gone over even better, but they went the other way. They decided to latch on to this extraordinarily stale genre of television, and they hired the best in the business.
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There was a quote from, I think, Lenny Ripps, who was saying, like, we had literally a dream team, a variety show dream team, and everybody was good, but there were probably no bad welders on the Titanic either. That's a great quote.
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Enjoy this year's annual holiday presentation of the Star Wars Holiday Special and let the holiday season begin.
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Well, let's take a little break because I'm overly excited. All right. Okay? Okay.
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hey and welcome to the podcast i'm josh clark with charles w chuckers bryant and jerry jerome roland uh who's the wookiee mother yeah mala uh that was the wookiee wife oh and mother yeah sure chewbacca's mom is not with them any longer yeah she left yeah she was not about to appear in that she went out the window
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They were big overnight because of Star Wars for sure, but they weren't to the adoring public. Sure. Back at the studio, they could still be bossed around and this was the result of it. And you can tell also just from watching the actual special, Harrison Ford is not happy to be there at any point. Oh, no.
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Princess Leia is clearly on drugs was she on drugs at this point if you watch it she's on drugs especially the ending scene Mark Hamill he looks like he's happy to be there actually He was fine, but apparently he said, no, I'm not doing a musical number.
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And if you watch his part, wedging a musical number in there would have been even more painful. Sure. But everybody who was part of the actual Star Wars franchise that wasn't wearing like a full body costume was like, I really wish I wasn't here. And you can tell.
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Yeah, and points at the camera like, okay, I'm looking at the camera. And then goes back to what he's doing. Yeah, it's pretty awesome.
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I mean, like, come on. It's Harrison Ford. It's Han Solo. He has to go do this for, like, five days. Yeah, I felt terrible for him. I think it's hilarious that they had to do this, especially now.
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Because you hear like, oh, okay, well, Han Solo and Chewbacca evading the Imperial Guard and all that stuff for two hours. I would watch that. Sure. I would too. Yeah. That's not what they show. Killing time at the Wookiee household. That is what they show. Yeah. That's what they do. It's people hanging out, waiting for Chewbacca, worrying about him.
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And then killing time while they wait for him to come back.
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And again, you said 10 minutes. And you're not exaggerating. You're not being hyperbolic. You can time it. It's 10 minutes of Wookiees talking to each other with no subtitles. Fortunately... I couldn't follow it at first.
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So before everybody starts, like, freaking out, we know that that's actually their nicknames. Their real names are his father is Atichikook. Atichikook. It's really hard to pronounce. Mulatto Buck is his wife, and his son is Lumpo Warumpa. But... As named by Lucas. But, yeah. But Lucas also named him Lumpy, Itchy, and Mala.
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Do you care? Are you into it? Yeah, I will definitely go see it in the theater, but I won't be there opening night. I've gotten really adept at ignoring spoilers, people talking about stuff. I could conceivably see this movie a month after it comes out and still go in fresh. I'm an ostrich.
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So, they're all back there wringing their hands, trying to figure out ways to pass the time until they get word from Chewbacca that he's made it to... What is it? Ketchuk? Kazook. Kazook. Did you say ketchup? Ketchup. Or catsup, if you're fancy. But Chewbacca...
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is having trouble getting back to Kachook because there's a blockade by the Empire, and they're looking for rebels, specifically Chewbacca, who I didn't realize is the most famous Wookiee of all. Did you know that? Yeah, of course.
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Yeah, but we're seeing these people's view of the universe. What about back on...
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Yeah, and he really loved to, like, soak in his fame.
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Well, he put it a little differently than that. Well, he said glacial stare. He did. The glacial stare that he got was for this quote. He said, these people just talk in what sounds like fat people having an orgasm. He goes, if you want, you can set up a tape recorder in my bedroom and I'll do all of the foleying for it. Yeah, he's a large guy. Yeah. So that's what got the glacial stare.
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But Valanche later said that there was one development meeting that Lucas attended, and it was, here's the Wookiee Bible. Tell me what you got. And Valanche said he and the other writers and producers and director were just kind of throwing ideas, and George Lucas would either say, like, no, that doesn't work, give him a glacial stare, or say, yes, that's exactly it.
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But that's what I'm saying. That was television. That's what you did. Like the Brady's, the show had its course, and then it became a variety show. It was just everybody loved variety shows. Yeah, I still do. By this time, though, everybody was sick of variety shows. Right. And so it really was a terrible choice.
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And so there is a certain logic to the variety show. There's logic all over the place. It's not just that variety shows were popular at the time. Somebody was like, well, Wookiees, you don't understand what they're saying, so this is all going to be very physical. Right. So, these people who did, what is it, Shields and Yarnell? Yeah. That's a perfect choice. That makes complete sense.
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You can see this whole process of leading up to the point where it was produced and shot and everything. Yeah. A series of like, oh, we have this problem. Well, here's a fix. Yeah. But that leads to another problem. Well, we'll fix it with this.
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And no one's stepping back and being like, all we've done is create a series of problems that are going to come together and make one extraordinarily large problem that will become legendary. No one did that. And so the whole thing was made.
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November 17th, 1978, a Friday at 8 p.m. Eastern Time.
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It aired in six or seven countries total.
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I guess not because none of those are on the Internet, you know.
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No, 13 million, that's not bad. The thing is, apparently, if you look at the Nielsen ratings graph, For the first hour? Yeah, we know about that graph. It's okay. Yeah, we do. And then after a very important part, which we'll talk about soon, it just drops off at the end of the first hour. And that actually probably made the executives at CBS cringe for a number of reasons.
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Number one is this special was originally supposed to just be an hour, but so many advertisers wanted to sign on that they extended it to two hours. Oh, you can tell. shines through, you can totally tell that this thing was never supposed to be. I think an hour might have been stretching it, to tell you the truth. Oh, yeah.
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It's 30 minutes of content, 40 if you're generous, an hour, meh, and then two hours, it becomes one of the worst things that was ever put on television.
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Yes. We already missed Life Day, though, so happy belated Life Day, Chuck. Are they celebrating it this year? November 17th. Yeah, but it's every three years.
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arcane yeah man nice job okay so it's every three years started in 1978 let's do the math shall we
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And again, we almost barely see Chewie. Yeah. The rest is his family waiting for him to come back for Life Day.
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Him or Carol Burnett Show? Both. He's great. Yeah. He actually, if you watch what he's doing, you're like, this guy's a comedy genius for sure.
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And he had three different parts. R.I.P.
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Both on her planet and in our living room.
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Okay, so 2017, we'll celebrate Life Day. We'll put on our red robes, our ultra-long, straight, ironed wigs. Sure. And we'll celebrate Life Day the way it was meant to be.
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Which was Harvey Keitel as a robot. Oh, it would have been wonderful if it had been Harvey Keitel. Oh, what did it say? Harvey Keitel. Harvey Korman. Oh, man. Harvey Keitel murders someone in the middle of the instruction video.
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And he loves Bea Arthur. Did we mention Bea Arthur was in it? Bea Arthur is not only in it, Chuck. She sings a song.
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She's the owner. Yeah. What's the Moz what? Moz Def Cantina?
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Yes, yes, that cantina. She's the owner. Bea Arthur is the owner. Bea Arthur of the Golden Girls, but in this case, Bea Arthur of Maud, because as one of the people who wrote one of the articles we based this on points out, she's just basically playing Maud as the owner of the cantina.
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Right, and again, we can't possibly have the script lead anywhere else but Chewbacca's house while his family waits for it. So all this takes place as part of a public service announcement, basically, broadcast by the Empire about how immoral life on Tatooine is. So let's go see what's going on in the Mos Eisley Cantina as it's being shut down for curfew.
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Yes. Of the Honeymooners fame. Probably the star of the whole thing, really. He has the most lines, I would say. The most comprehensible lines.
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No, he sells goods. Yeah, a trader. He doesn't trade humans. Yeah, he's in the human trade. No, he isn't really?
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Huh. So in this Christmas special. Yeah. Apparently they sanitized his background because he's basically just selling gadgets and novelties and stuff like that to the Wookiees and the Empire who were occupying the area. Yes. He comes bearing gifts. Yeah, because he's a friend of Chewbacca's family.
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Apparently, the writers who were interviewed for this said that was totally the intent. They were trying to get what amounted to softcore porn that would pass the censors.
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So it's all... You can't even say it's innuendo. It's too obvious and overt for innuendo. Instead, it's just... It's just... It's just gross. It's really gross. Diane Carroll... Great singer. Yes, she is. A Vegas staple. Shows up and starts basically...
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Or their Hanukkah, or their Kwanzaa, or their Tet.
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And tantalizing Grandpa Itchy, who, again, this is Chewbacca's elderly father, who now engages in some sort of, well, he's watching virtual reality pornography now. And this is a pretty lengthy segment in and of itself.
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Because also, again, he shudders a lot.
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So you would think, okay, they've gone to this hologram well a couple of times. Why not go to it again? Well, they do. They do. To kill more time while the Imperial Guard is ransacking their house. Art Carney apparently, I guess, is trying to get one of the Imperial Guard, the leader, I think, or one of the leaders.
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Very much so. And the writer of the Vanity Fair article, by the way, said, this is so incomprehensible, the specialist. George Lucas didn't even have the Schwartz with him at the time. So, anyway, Art Carney's distracting this imperial leader while they're ransacking the Wookiee's house, Chewbacca's house, with a hologram.
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And this hologram, instead of being an acrobat or Diane Carroll or any kind of porn or anything like that, is Jefferson Starship. Yeah. And they decide that they're going to play Light the Sky on Fire, which apparently is about UFOs. It's a little music video, basically. It's the predecessor to Video Kill the Radio Star. You can tell. And again, it is the whole... lengthy song. Yeah.
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The whole thing. So every time that somebody's like, we need to escape mentally from what's going on here in our house, let's go into the video world. It's not just, and they don't cut back and forth.
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It is, and it's almost entirely made up, dashed off, you could possibly say, by George Lucas in the 70s. Yeah. And it's the basis of what has become derided as... like one of the worst things that ever happened to the Star Wars galaxy.
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It's, okay, here's five minutes of Jefferson Starship performing this song.
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Yeah. And some cocaine. Well, probably so. So we said, yeah. Chuck, I think, though, yet another segment like this is actually widely regarded as the high point of the whole thing. Oh, sure.
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So there is a cartoon, actually. Yeah, that Lumpy watches. Yeah, Lumpy's like... The Imperial Guard is still ransacking my house. I think I'll entertain myself by watching a cartoon on my little iPad. I guess it was an iPad. And he watches this cartoon, and it's actually remarkable for a number of reasons. It's the best part of the whole special.
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And it introduces Boba Fett. It's the first time Boba Fett ever makes an appearance in the Star Wars universe.
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For sure. It's even a little more artsy than that.
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And they crash on a planet or something.
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So it's basically Boba Fett is an allegory for George Lucas himself. So the cartoon comes and goes. And that was the thing that came at about the end of the first hour mark. And after that, everybody just turned off their television sets.
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When cynicism kicks in? I can see Scott holding out to 14, 15. Yeah, maybe so. So, Chuck, the whole thing finally does end. And actually, there's a guy. His name's Nathan Rabin. He writes over at the AV Club. He had a great quote. He basically said that one of the great redeeming values of this special is that it does eventually end.
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Go read his review of the Star Wars Holiday Special because he goes on to describe exactly what that must have been like, that development meeting where the bag of cocaine is pacing back and forth talking about what should happen. That's what it feels like. But it doesn't, and it ends even more. It takes this bizarre two hours and wraps it up in just a nice bizarre bow.
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It might as well have been a banana peel. But, again, this is basically produced by vaudevillians, starring vaudevillians. Why not have the one death take place from basically what amounts to somebody slipping on a banana peel? Exactly. It's a perfect way to end it. So that guy basically represents the end of the imperial threat for the rest of Life Day.
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But it's really that bad. Yeah, the people who say that haven't seen even a second of it.
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And we then see Life Day being celebrated, which is celebrated by lots of Wookiees assembling in what looks like a giant Olin Mills portrait. Yeah. And all of them are wearing red robes. Sure. And I know I'm up talking, and it's because my mind is still having trouble wrapping around this. And then Princess Leia comes out with C-3PO. Is Mark Hamill there?
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The whole gang's there, if I'm not mistaken. Okay, the whole gang's there. And then they all gather around to hear a great quote from Princess Leia, which we will read verbatim.
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And we should also point out, the tree of life has never been mentioned up to this point. I had no idea what that was. It just makes a sudden appearance at the end. And when you said cue song, by cue song you mean Princess Leia starts singing.
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And she does. And again, I've said that she looks like she's on drugs. This is the point where she really does look like she's on drugs. And it's not just me. Other writers who've written reviews of this... It's really obvious that she possibly smoked a decent amount of pot before she shot this scene. But she sings okay. It's fine. It's just the fact that Princess Leia is singing.
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Yeah, I watched it last night and this morning. There's something about it. It's mesmerizing. It really is.
Stuff You Should Know
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And actually Bruce Valanche had a really great quote too. He says that she very much wanted to show this side of her talent. And there was general dismay because this was not what we wanted Princess Leia to be doing.
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She did it anyway. So the whole thing ends with her singing this song about Life Day, which is set loosely to the John Williams Star Wars theme.
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Yeah, and remember when Chewbacca like leans back and puts his hands behind his head? Yeah, yeah. That's in there. It's like just a highlight reel from the movie saying like, feel like this, go see the movie.
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They tried. They definitely tried. And George Lucas is totally full of it because in 1987, he told Starlog magazine that the Christmas special would be out on videocassette very soon. Yes.
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And in 2007, two years after that quote you just read where he's like, I don't even know what you're talking about, basically, he apparently considered releasing the Christmas special as a bonus on the DVDs of the first three.
Stuff You Should Know
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It gets increasingly more absurd. It gets a little less absurd, finishes super absurd.
Stuff You Should Know
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It's pretty great. It is. And there is one of those clean copies that's floating around out there. So you can watch this in its entirety. Some of it, like the cartoon, was removed due to copyright infringement and that kind of stuff. But as is the case with the rest of the Internet, you can just go find it elsewhere and piece it together. There's also the original ads that aired in Baltimore.
Stuff You Should Know
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Yeah. That are just fascinating. Yeah, those are always fun. GM ads where one of the guys who's in quality control, he says, did you watch it? I don't think I saw that one. He goes, we really care about these cars. That's no jive, man. On a GM ad. And he's like dead serious. They're trying to be hip. Yeah. It's pretty good stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
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It's extraordinarily difficult to overstate how bad this is. And some people, you know, in researching this, you read about it, you read descriptions of these things, and it just can't possibly be gotten across until you see it. So luckily, as we will see, you can go onto YouTube and watch it. And you may even enjoy this episode more if you pause,
Stuff You Should Know
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Oh, yeah. I mean, I watched it twice. I wouldn't have watched it a second. I wouldn't have made it through the first time. Let me take that back. I'm a pro, so I wouldn't have made it through the first time. I wouldn't have watched it a second time if there wasn't something about it.
Stuff You Should Know
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And I figured out I think the thing that I like the most about it is Lumpy, Chewbacca's son, played by an actress named Patti Maloney, who frankly is hands down the best actor in the entire thing. Her responses and everything is just awesome.
Stuff You Should Know
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Sure. Or they were like, I think she said, I love you. Should we have them redo it? And the director's like, no, I want to go. And Chuck, there's one other thing that I figured out from watching this. What's that? It's not readily apparent.
Stuff You Should Know
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The whole thing is made all the more odd and that there's situation after situation after situation where we as normal audiences were trained to expect the laugh track. There's not a laugh track. Yeah. Had there been a laugh track.
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It might have been less bizarre. Yeah. But the fact that it's missing just makes your... It agitates the mind.
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Yeah. Like when Art Carney's doing his thing.
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Yeah. Okay. I agree with you, Chuck. Don't take things too seriously. I think that's the great lesson in this.
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Oh, you can. It's on their site. Because it's great. I think it's like $8.
Stuff You Should Know
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They are. At least I think Corbett listens to us. So hey, Corbett. You got anything else? No. No, I think we did this. There's some good stuff. Go read the Vanity Fair article, Han Solo Comedy Hour. There's a book called How Star Wars Conquered the Universe that has a very interesting chapter about this.
Stuff You Should Know
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That's where we found it asserted that George Lucas never said that he would smash this thing with a sledgehammer. Right. And there's also an entire website dedicated to it, starwarsholidayspecial.com. Yeah. And if you want to know more about the Star Wars Holiday Special, we have a ton of Star Wars stuff on HowStuffWorks, by the way.
Stuff You Should Know
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Videos with Holly Fry from Stuff You Missed in History Class.
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She does. So you can just type Star Wars in the search bar at HowStuffWorks.com, and it will bring up some cool stuff for you. Since I said search bar, it's time for Listener Mail.
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Go spend two hours watching this thing and then come back and laugh along with us.
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Thanks a lot, Amy, in San Diego. Doesn't that mean like Place of the Whales in German or something like that? Yeah. Yeah. If you want to get in touch with us, you can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can join us on facebook.com slash stuffyoushouldknow. You can send us an email at stuffpodcast at howstuffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.
Stuff You Should Know
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Yeah, it looks good. It has to basically be the copy that the actual affiliate broadcasts. Yeah. It's like that quality compared to the other stuff floating around on YouTube. It's clearly recorded on a 1978 VCR. Yeah, which were really expensive. Very expensive. I did some calculating on West Egg. Okay. So the average VCR went for about $1,000. They were brand new. That's amazing.
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$1,000 in 1978 money. So they're about $3,800 in 2014 money. Crazy. Luckily, there were some rich people out there recording this stuff, and the wealthy have saved us all again, yet again, as they always do. Yes.
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There was another one, and I don't know who wrote this one, Chuck. Yeah. The title's The Star Wars Holiday Special George Lucas Wants to Smash Every Copy of with a Sledgehammer.
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That sounded like something that people made up. Yes, but if you go on the Internet, you will quickly believe that he did, but apparently he didn't. I'm sure he felt that way, though. Clearly. Because he did appear on Robot Chicken in, I think, 2005 on the therapist's couch talking about how much he hated the special. All right, so let's set the background, shall we? Shall we go back to 1977? Yes.
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Summer. Getting the old Wayback Machine. All right, let's do it.
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Yeah, I'm just a little six-year-old excited about Star Wars. I've just turned one. Yeah, so you don't know what's up yet. Please forgive me if I urinate myself.
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Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, talk about a breakout hit. Like no one had ever seen anything like it before. No. 2001 had come out in the late 60s. Yeah. But it wasn't. It still isn't accessible to all audiences. It's not a cerebral film. Yeah, it's not an adventure movie like Star Wars. This is like basically swashbuckling on the screen, but in a galaxy far, far away.
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Star Wars just changed everything, and it came on just like a hammer.
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Like if it wasn't driven home that I'm not a nerd by the fact that I don't have opening night tickets or any tickets yet, give me a break. Okay. And by proxy Chuck too, okay? Yes, thank you. So it's hard to state how great Star Wars was in everyone's mind. Yeah. Right? Bill Murray came out with that lounge singer Star Wars thing.
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And if you just listen to the lyrics of it, really, it's just Bill Murray singing about how much Star Wars is awesome. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So by the following year, George Lucas was – he wanted to figure out a way to keep audiences – just engaged with the whole Star Wars franchise that he was just starting to build. But he knew that Empire Strikes Back was a couple more years out. Sure.
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So I think he was approached by some TV executives who said, have you considered doing some sort of TV special? They're all the rage right now. We have a graphic that's really awesome that we set aside just for TV specials here at CBS. Why don't you let us, let's get together and do a Star Wars special.
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Well, the weekend before Thanksgiving, it's like everybody's shopping, sitting around with family, like waiting to actually do stuff.
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It's the perfect time to broadcast something on TV.
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And those are the words that will haunt George Lucas to his grave.
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Spell it. K-A-S-H-Y-Y-Y-K. Yeah. Which, I mean, I guess that sounds like Chewbacca's planet. Sure.
Stuff You Should Know
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Right. So the whole reason apparently that George Lucas was interested in featuring the Wookiees was it is what we in show business call low-hanging fruit. The reason why it was low-hanging fruit was because they had just established the different scenes that would make the cut for Empire Strikes Back. Yeah. And how did you pronounce it again? Kazook. Kazook had not made the cut. Right.
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Even prior to this, apparently for A New Hope, George Lucas had whipped up a 40-page what's known as the Wookiee Bible. It's like a 40-page supplement that's all about Kazook and Wookiees and Chewbacca and his family and everything about Wookieedom, right? That's right. So he's like, I've got this thing already established. I love Wookiees. They didn't make the cut. I'm a little sad about that.
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Kazook is not going to show up in Empire Strikes Back. Let's build the entire special around Wookiees. It's basically the one demand. Me, George Lucas has.
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That's it. I'll be totally hands-off from this point on. Which he kind of was. He totally was. And it was actually this experience that apparently taught him to be the very hands-on person that he is famous for being. It came out of this Christmas special.
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Wasn't he suspected of being Thomas Pinchon for a while? Oh, I don't know. Or was Thomas Pinchon on Hollywood Squares? I have no idea. I may be confabulating some stuff, confounding.
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There's some con of some sort going on. Sounds like it. Yeah.
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Happy Life Day, everyone! To long-time listeners of Stuff You Should Know, or at least ones who've been listening for just over a year, we release this episode, the Star Wars Holiday Special, every year. And it's kind of considered the official start of the holiday season throughout the Western Hemisphere. And if you are new to the podcast, well then say hello to your newest holiday tradition.
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Okay, thanks, Jerry. So, Chuck, you just said singer-songwriters. Yeah. What would that have to do with Star Wars? Yeah. Well, actually, in this Star Wars holiday special, for those of you who hadn't seen it, there are musical numbers.
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They decided from the outset that there should be musical numbers, and the reason that they decided that there should be musical numbers is because the people who sold George Lucas, and at the time it was the Star Wars Corporation was what it was called? Yeah. on the idea of doing this TV special was that everyone would love a variety show. Yeah, it was the 70s. Great idea.
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Let's do a variety show. The problem was this. Apparently George Lucas didn't watch enough TV. Yeah. And he also overly trusted people who talked to him. Sure. Because by 1978, yes, variety shows had dominated television for over 10 years. But it had come to an end. It was getting stale.
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Had just been canceled after 11 seasons.
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I think Hee Haw's still on. Solid Gold had yet to come on and take up the mantle. That wasn't a variety show. It was a little bit. There was talking in between the songs.
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What was with that country chic thing that happened?
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It's kind of happening again, I think. Oh, because of that dude. The guy who won all the CMA awards. I don't know. He came along and he's like, actually country. His dad's like a coal miner for real from Kentucky. I think I know who you mean. Chris something. Yeah, he is good. He's come along and been like, what are you guys doing?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Deal With Doulas
Duelists have to be great listeners. We already talked about the empathy piece. They have to be very empathetic. And they will, like I said, start meeting before birth to answer any kind of questions, come up with that birth plan, and really listen. a lot to the wife and the husband. So everybody is on the same page. And like I said, on the day, things can change.
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But going in, you generally want to have a pretty good idea of everything from medications you might want to use, if any, to where you want to have the baby. The doula can come on board and kind of explain if they're knowledgeable, which hopefully they are, about the hospitals around you and maybe even help you pick out where you're going to give birth.
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Yeah, and it says in this article that there are specialist doulas like antepartum doulas and postpartum doulas and labor doulas. that if you want an antepartum doula to be, if you want more than those two meetings, you might want to hire someone who will be with you for several weeks beforehand.
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Or if you want someone postpartum to be with you to coach you through breastfeeding or, you know, changing diapers or just any of that kind of coaching, you can hire someone to do that. But I get the sense that doulas generally will sort of work with you on whatever kind of plan you want.
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It may cost a little extra, but I get the sense that a doula wouldn't say like, nope, you get two meetings and that's it. They might be like, no, I'll come in for a third and fourth meeting. It'll be an extra of this much money and I can hang with you for a week or two afterward here and there.
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Yeah. The other thing about doulas, another misconception a lot of people think is that it's just some hippy-dippy thing that if you don't want to, if you only want to have like a natural childbirth, then you get the doula in there and they're not there for anything other than that. And that's not the case.
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Selects: The Deal With Doulas
They are there to support you in whatever kind of birth you want to have, whether it's a home birth or water birth or whether or not you want to get an epidural or be loaded up on every pharmaceutical they offer mothers in labor. They're there just to have knowledge of all that stuff so you know what you're getting into. Yep.
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Yeah, when my kid was born, I was shocked at how many people were in the room, first of all. How many? Oh, man. Baker's dozen? I mean... 20? Emily and I, birth mom, obviously. Our adoption counselor, who was a licensed doula, so she really served that function for the birth mom, which was really a great, great plus. The doctor...
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It happens. I mean, we'll go ahead and spoil it. Generally, doulas are, well, let's just get into this. Generally, doulas are women who have already had a baby.
Stuff You Should Know
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I guess the I'm not even sure what the roles are, what their technical titles are. But the doctor came in when it was go time and basically just check things out and said, well, I think it's go time. And then he stepped out of the way. And these two nurses came in there and. Ninety seconds later, there was a baby. Wow. So it was – and those were – so it was two nurses.
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There was probably like – there was probably at least 12 people in that room.
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It was crowded and fast and surreal and weird and amazing. Uh, even, even weirder, they brought in carrot top to cut the cord, right? No, Emily cut the cord. Okay, cool. Emily actually helped sort of deliver in a way.
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Cause you know, they, they like to bring in, uh, I guess, you know, in a, in a regular biological birth, it would be the husband probably, uh, in there saying, Hey, do you want to help hold the legs or do whatever? In this case, it was Emily. And I just took a respectful position, uh, By the birth mom's head. Sort of looking down that way.
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I was like, you know, she was like, you can go wherever you want to go. But I was like, you know, I'll just hang right here.
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Yeah, I wanted to be there. And, you know, I was helping support her as well, holding her hand and patting her on the head and all that nice stuff.
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Not even just women, but women who have had a baby. So they can really know how to help another lady have a baby.
Stuff You Should Know
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All right, well, let's take another break now that we've shared our stories. We'll come back and talk a little bit about how you become a doula right after this.
Stuff You Should Know
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Well, before you decide to become a doula, you need to give a lot of thought on what you're going to be getting into. You know, the hours are long at birth. Childbirth is very stressful. And especially if there are complications, it can be super stressful in a matter of life or death. So you've got to be able to deal with that stuff in the moment.
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And hang in there and be the birth coach that mom needs, you know, in the most stressful of situations. But then on the plus side, you get to see little babies coming out on the reg. And what's better than that, you know? I can't think of too many things. Talk about an oxytocin hit. Maybe magic cake. Magic cake? Mm-hmm. You do not have to have a college degree.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Deal With Doulas
Yeah, you don't. But there are more and more programs now and more certification and licensing programs out there So if you want to be a doula, my advice is to go that route. You probably just get more work that way.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Deal With Doulas
Yep. It depends on where you live on how much you're going to pay. If you live in a big fancy city like New York City, you're going to be paying top dollar for your doula. If you live in Los Angeles, you're going to be paying top dollar for your doula.
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Selects: The Deal With Doulas
Yeah, but that scale can go all the way down to... Zero. Well, sure, all the way to zero. But if you're paying a doula, that number can go all the way down to... $600,000 to $800,000 in the flyover states. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Deal With Doulas
Yeah, so doulas, we haven't even said what that is yet, and that would probably help clear it up if you don't know. Doulas are people, like we said, generally women, but not always, who are childbirth coaches. They coach you through the process. They will, depending on the service they offer, will come on before, obviously, you give birth and kind of prep you for what's going to happen.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Deal With Doulas
And this, I mean, it kind of depends on when your doula will come aboard in the process. But at the very least, they will help you in the delivery room, and they are your advocate to kind of coach you through this whole thing. And that term actually started in an article in 1969 by a woman named Dana Raphael, and then later on in a book in 1973 called The Tender Gift, Breastfeeding.
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Selects: The Deal With Doulas
And that's when she brought this term back and said, you know, we're going to start calling these women doulas, and it's going to be a real job.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Deal With Doulas
Yeah, and it's not just C-sections. They're your birth advocate to make sure, or at least as best they can, to try to ensure that the birth plan that you feel best about is the one that you end up with.
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Things always change, of course. And a doula would never put you in danger by insisting on something. In fact, they can't. But they are there to speak for you on your behalf because as a mother in labor, you're going through a lot on your own. So it's nice to have someone that is just there to do that job.
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Selects: The Deal With Doulas
Yeah, it's definitely gained popularity in the 2000s. I think I tried to find more recent statistics than 2012, but I couldn't. But in 2012, there were 6%. And this is in the United States. It's very much... I know it does happen all over the world some, but it's sort of an American thing. Six percent of people in 2012 used a doula versus three percent in 2006.
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And in that same survey, 27 percent of people said they would they would like to use a doula. So, you know, at least they're they're wishing or hopeful that they can.
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Yeah, and the impression I get now is that If you have a good doula who is good with people, which is ideally what your doula is, if your doula is not a people person, it's probably not going to be a good thing. But the idea I get is that doctors and nurses like having doulas there now because they can just concentrate on – they don't have to be the ones providing emotional, empathetic support.
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So what's the deal with doulas, everybody? That's my question to you on this wonderful Saturday morning. This one goes back to December 12th, 2017. Doulas do great work. They're wonderful people, and they bring babies into the world. So I hope you enjoy The Deal with Doulas.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Deal With Doulas
Although they can still do it if they want, they can just concentrate on the medical aspects of it, and they know that they have a trained – hopefully licensed doula, and we'll get into that later, on hand to sort of say, you know what, I don't have to deal with that part of things. You're in good hands with this doula, and I can just concentrate on the medical parts.
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Selects: The Deal With Doulas
Yeah, like they're sitting in the room with you and hanging out. They don't get called in like 20 minutes before you give birth. They're with you sometimes days and weeks beforehand coaching you on what to expect and how you're gonna go about this and what your plan is. And then on the day, like even if dad is in there and the husband is in there,
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Selects: The Deal With Doulas
Providing support, that's great, but the doula is just that extra step and that extra measure of support that is super knowledgeable about what it's going to be like where the husband might not exactly be able to lend the most insightful ear there. You know what I mean?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Deal With Doulas
All right, so here's a misconception. Some people think that doulas are authorized or trained to give birth. That is not true. They don't deliver babies. They don't perform any sort of medical procedures. They don't put an IV in your arm. They don't work the heart rate monitor. Most times they don't even work for the hospital. You have hired them independently.
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Selects: The Deal With Doulas
And again, they're just there to coach you. They're not even midwives. Midwives can deliver a baby.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Deal With Doulas
Yeah, and maybe not even offer advice. Like I think the idea is that a doula will lay it all out there so you can make an informed decision and not necessarily say, well, if I were you, this is what I would do.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Three Christs of Ypsilanti Experiment
And what came out of it is both an indictment and an inspiring affirmation of humanity. And on a personal note, I would like to wish my sweet, sweet wife, Yumi, a very big happy birthday. Enjoy.
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Selects: The Three Christs of Ypsilanti Experiment
Yeah, and so these guys being inmates of the state at a time where Ypsilanti had like 4,000 people, 4,000 patients in just this one institution. And if you were already like on the margins of society and then moved into a place where you're with 4,000 other people on the margins of society, it's a really good place to get lost, to not get any real help. Yeah.
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Selects: The Three Christs of Ypsilanti Experiment
And so one of the things that was part of this experiment design is to make participating in these discussions, this group of these three Christs as attractive to these three men as possible. So they were moved to Ward D-23. They were given their own private day room to eat in, to sleep in—or not sleep in, but to hang out in, away from everybody else.
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Selects: The Three Christs of Ypsilanti Experiment
They got some, like, place to stretch out and to have some company. They got a lot of attention. A lot of perks. Like, basically, their lives were changed in— like incalculable ways by being part of the study. And so when they say like these were voluntary meetings and these men were voluntary members of the study, that's definitely true. They were voluntary participants.
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Selects: The Three Christs of Ypsilanti Experiment
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Dave is here with us today and we're all just quietly holding hands. Now we have to stop and come into the real world and start talking to you fine people for this episode of Stuff You Should Know. My lip got caught in my tooth when I said you and it came out a little weird.
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But the perks on offer were just so amazing. Like you could not turn down, you know, participating in some degree.
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I don't think so. Okay. I don't want to disparage those great actors' names again.
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Selects: The Three Christs of Ypsilanti Experiment
So let me ask you this because I didn't see the movie. Was it like – and I loved the fact that they made a movie about Freddie Mercury and the other members of Queen. But was it like in the movie – what was the name of that movie?
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Selects: The Three Christs of Ypsilanti Experiment
Bohemian Rhapsody. Bohemian Rhapsody, that's right. Do you remember like every time like Freddie Mercury did something brilliant, they would have Brian May, they'd do a pan in close up of him just looking like in awe and astonished. And that's maybe pushing it doing that once in a movie, but they did that every like 15 or 20 minutes. Was it kind of like that same sentiment?
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Selects: The Three Christs of Ypsilanti Experiment
I got you, yeah. So not the real story. It sounds familiar or similar.
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Right, exactly. This is not a feel-good story. I wonder if it was performance art you accidentally stumbled upon.
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Selects: The Three Christs of Ypsilanti Experiment
I got it. All right, all right. I liked Awakenings too, but it sounds like what you're describing is more along the lines of Greatest Showman, like that kind of sanitization. I didn't see that. Okay. Did you? No, but remember we did that episode just tearing it apart. Yeah, yeah. We hadn't even seen it yet.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Three Christs of Ypsilanti Experiment
I think his name actually was Josephine as well, and he went by Joseph. So he wanted to be a writer. I think, did you say he was 58 at the time? Yeah. OK. And he did not really take to working outside of the house. He and his wife did not have a very good relationship necessarily. He didn't want kids. She did. They ended up having three daughters.
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Selects: The Three Christs of Ypsilanti Experiment
And he later on came to believe that they were not his children after all. And that may have been correct. But then things started to take kind of a turn for the worse in that he started to become really paranoid. He started to accuse people of poisoning his food. He became a bit of a hoarder, especially with books.
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Selects: The Three Christs of Ypsilanti Experiment
And probably the greatest crime a man could commit in mid-century America, he did not want to work.
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So that was basically that. He ended up getting sent to an asylum in Canada. and then on to Ypsilanti eventually. And he'd been in Ypsilanti for, I think, about 20 years, or at least in and out of the hospital system for about 20 years. And for about 10 of those years, he had decided that he was God or Jesus Christ or both.
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Splendid. Yeah, so Joseph, despite his inability to take care of himself and the fact that he hoarded and all of that, he was a very sharp person. So remember to keep that in mind. He was very sharp and a good writer as well. Clyde, and these men's names were changed. Clyde Benson, he was 70. He'd been hospitalized for the last 17 years. He was in pretty rough shape. He really was.
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And Rokeach definitely starts to recognize that pretty quickly after meeting Clyde and ends up almost letting him just stay in the group, even though he's not really participating any longer. But Clyde was apparently raised in an overprotected manner and didn't really learn how to make his own decisions and kind of ended up stunted there.
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As a result, which you can make your way through life like that if you if you want to. But he ended up turning to alcohol and became a really hardcore alcoholic to where it was starting to wreck his life. And apparently that came into collision with a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia at some point. Right.
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Yeah. And when he did, he was very direct and to the point. And I don't think he was actually physically violent, was he?
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Right. So he would say things like, I am him. See, now understand that. Like that was the extent of how he would explain that he was God. He didn't need it to be challenged. And if you did try to challenge it, he would just shut you down kind of thing in a very... Yeah, like you said, kind of a scary way.
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Nice. That'll be a special treat for everybody, especially me.
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Which is sad because that means that Rokic made things much, much worse for these people.
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And that's something to really understand, that there were three men who were living, you know, their delusional lives in this state mental hospital, but they were generally unmolested until they were dragged into this study and messed with, like, in ways that you just don't do to other people, you know, and that their lives probably were worse, far worse than they would have been had they never met Milton Rokic.
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I really was. The worst was when you had that little case that you would put it in and it had vents so the smell could waft out of it.
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For sure. Yeah. And he had, like, there was a time where he was living a normal life. He served in World War II. He worked at different jobs back in Detroit. He tried to go to college. He was trying to make a life for himself. But he suffered from fatigue, which I looked up as apparently a really tough comorbidity with psychotic disorders. Mm-hmm.
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And it's like got a terrible positive feedback where, you know, the more tired you get, the worse your disorder is. And the worse your disorder is, the harder it can be to sleep. And it's just not good. So he had that. And then he also started hearing voices himself. that were telling him that he was Jesus Christ.
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And that didn't really jibe very well with his mother's own religious fanaticism because he saw that she was, you know, worshiping these other, what he considered idols.
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And he went on a... a bit of a violent tear once, removing all of the pictures of the saints and breaking all of the figurines and all that stuff and demanding that his mother worship him as Jesus Christ and threatening that if she didn't, he would strangle her. And so that was enough to get him locked up for good. He'd already been locked up one time for a brief period.
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And then about six months after that, he was locked up from then until the time that he met Milton Rokeach.
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Man. Sorry. So he went by, not Leon, and again, Leon was a fake name that Rokic gave him for the book. But he went by Dr. Domino Dominorum et Rex Reserum Simplis Christianis Puris Mentalis Doctor, which is Latin for Lord of Lords, King of Kings, Simple Christian Boy Psychiatrist. But he asked everyone to call him Rex for short.
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Sure. And he was, he was, like you said, like the most, probably the most personable. He, like Joseph, he was very sharp too, but also like from a very, a very early stage, he saw quite clearly what Roe Keats was trying to do. And he thought that it was morally repugnant, that it was not a nice thing to do to somebody, that you shouldn't mess with people like that.
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Yeah. No, it was great. It was very liberating.
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And he said as much multiple times throughout the study. Yeah.
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I think this is going to be a good one because, Chuck, I've been wanting to talk about this for a really long time. This is one of those things that you, like, hear about – And you're like, wait, what? That can't be right. And then you read a little more about it and a little more and it just keeps getting worse and worse.
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No, and it was like really, it was kind of in and of itself just that finding that not only did they not have their identity shattered, but they just rebuilt and reinforced their identities however they could find a way to do it to their own satisfaction.
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That's a pretty big psychological finding in and of itself, you know, although it doesn't seem worth putting these men through that just to find that out, you know.
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Don't think I didn't notice you just slipped Peter Dinklage in there. I know. That only leaves one more, so I don't need to do the third.
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So one of the other things about Joseph was his interpretation of why they were there in this study, why the three of these men had been brought together, was so that they could sort out with the other two that they weren't Christ, that he was the one who was actually Christ, so he could do his work here on earth better without having these two basically harassing him or whatever.
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So then Leon, like I was saying, Leon was the one who kind of saw the most through Rokic's intentions and saw that they were just wrong. And like Clyde, I think Clyde said that they were a re-rise. That's what he considered the other two, or a hick.
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Joseph said, you know, I am who I am. And also, by the way, we all know that I'm really God. And then Leon, he said that he said the other two were instrumental gods. They were hollowed out gods. They were possibly dead already. And machines were operating them and making them say these things. But even in that, like he wasn't attacking them personally.
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It was what he felt forced to explain his position. And so that's what he said his position was. But as he was saying this, he would turn to Joseph. He would turn to Clyde and he would say, you know, I mean this, you know, respectfully, I don't mean to be to tear you down. Whatever your belief is your belief and I don't want and I'm not trying to take it from you.
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But yet it's just kind of one of the, like a landmark study in the field of psychology that we're talking about today.
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I have my beliefs and you have your beliefs. And that's. That's good enough. And so through that kind of... like truce that was kind of established between these three men, they basically kept the researchers at bay. The researchers would try to come in and bust things up and get them to like argue or, you know, make them confront one another.
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But when left alone, those three men just generally did not argue about who was God. They avoided the subject altogether and just let the other ones be and just kind of entered this live and let live kind of position, which I think is pretty heart heartening, you know?
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Yeah, that story in particular was about how Rokic was treating three psychotic men who thought they were Christ. And to read that to them is really mean. Again, he was trying to see what would happen if they were confronted with their identities being considered delusional by other people. And Leon in particular didn't like that.
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He said that a doctor or a person who's supposed to be a doctor is supposed to lift up, build up, guide, direct, inspire. He said that what you've just done is deploring. And Rokic said, you know, deploring, I've traveled 75 miles in snow and storm to come see you. And Leon said, yes, but what was your intention in coming to see me, sir?
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And so he didn't put up with Rokic's BS at all, which was pretty cool, you know. To hold delusions and to have your delusions attacked like that and then to be able to push back, but also in still a respectful way is, I think Leon's one of these, one of the great unsung heroes of 20th century America.
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Yeah, I say we take a break, man.
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You started wearing, like, Three Christs t-shirts and stuff.
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Man. It's just brutal. It keeps getting better and better. Yeah. Yeah. When those grad assistants said, you've gone too far, I think Rokic probably said something along the lines of, too far? I haven't even begun to go too far. Richard Gere said that. Just watch what's next. Yeah, but there was like upbeat music while he was saying it.
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Exactly. That is exactly what I was thinking of. Thank you for putting it into words, Chuck. So what happened next? So what happened next is as follows. Rokic basically saw, like, these guys are not going for this, for the level of prodding that I've been doing. I'm going to really kind of turn up the heat.
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And he wondered if you took the members, people that were part of these patients' delusional belief systems and personified them, like pretended you were them, say started communicating with them through letters or whatever. Yeah. What would happen?
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Could you conceivably get these people to abandon their delusions under the guidance of these authority figures that were actually part of their delusions? It's really kind of mind boggling when you lay it out in like a flow chart like that, you know?
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Or maybe he was scared of what would happen if Clyde broke.
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Archangel. Those are two different. So he was married to the Blessed Virgin Mary and had that uncle.
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But he wasn't married to his uncle. He had another wife later on named Madam Yeti Woman after he stopped being married to the Blessed Virgin Mary. That's right. Because his uncle, Michael, the archangel, married the Blessed Virgin Mary.
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Well, the upshot of it is Rokic started posing as Madam Yeti Woman and started a letter writing campaign as Madam Yeti Woman, basically reaching out to say, hey, Leon, I just want to say hi and I'm thinking of you and let's start talking. So there was correspondence that was established as Leon's delusion, like wife, Madam Yeti Woman.
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Yeah. And so he did. He did go ahead first with Leon, I believe. And by this time, Leon had one of the things that he had done to transform his identity was to become Dr. Righteous Ideal Dong or Dr. R.I. Dong. And apparently the head nurse asked him directly, like, can I please not call you Dr. Dong? And he said, yes, you can call me R.I. But everybody else called him Dr. R.I. Dung.
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And he did this, Rokic concluded, to basically make himself not worthy of being harassed anymore. But he was still secretly God, like he knew he was God. He was just pretending to be something else. And during that period, he became married to Madam Yeti Woman. So Rokic started addressing letters to Dr. R.I. Dung and basically saying – You know, here's a dollar.
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Why don't you go buy yourself something nice in the hospital store and then share the change with Clyde and Joseph? Or one of the things that they would do is they would take turns between the three patients as to who was going to lead the session that day.
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And one of the things you did when you led the session was you chose what song everybody sung at the beginning and at the end of the session, which is adorable. And so Madame Yeti Woman suggested that he choose onward Christian soldiers and he chose onward Christian soldiers.
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Hey everybody, it's Chuck and Josh here to talk to you about Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easy to build the website of your dreams and do whatever you like with it.
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And so like to Rokichi seeing like there's this there's like an actual influence that is being exerted by this delusional figure. And also it demonstrates that that Leon is showing like he definitely believes Madame Yeti Woman's a person for sure. Yeah.
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And so with Leon's letters in particular, there's a couple of like really sad things. Like the whole thing was sad to begin with, but there's this passage in the book where Leon gets a letter and Rokic realizes that he's holding back tears. And he starts to ask him, like, why are you, like, you know, are you happy? He said, yes, I'm very happy.
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It's a very pleasant feeling to have someone think of you. Like, he was moved to tears by the idea that Madame Yeti Woman was writing to him and talking about caring for him and sending him money to go buy himself things with. And rather than just say, like, oh, we might want to back this off, Rokic used it to step that up and arranged for a meeting with Madam Yeti Woman. Yeah.
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But there was no Madam Yeti Woman who was supposed to show up. He was going to get stood up from the outset. But still, Leon went to go meet Madam Yeti Woman and had his heart broken. I think it was after that that he stopped responding to the letters. Yeah.
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Yeah, he's great, man. I went back. I told you I was watching The Shield again. That guy was amazing in that.
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I don't think he was on to him from the beginning.
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Oh, gotcha. I see what you're saying. But, yeah, but it's really easy to forget because you're reading Rokic's accounts that these men weren't in on the idea that it was from Rokic. They believed that these letters were coming from their delusional figures. Yeah, that was the whole point. Which makes it just even more gut-wrenching when you stop and remember that, you know? Yeah.
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So then he says, OK, all right, Leon's done. I'm done writing letters to him. Who can I write letters to next? And he moves on to Joseph, right?
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Yeah. Yeah, he played one of the main characters.
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Yeah, he said, be assured that I will always love you just exactly like a father who deeply loves his own son.
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Yeah. So just like with Leon, through these letters as Dr. Yoder, he tried to get Joseph to start doing stuff, innocuous stuff at first. He stopped saying that he was from England and that he was from Quebec. Uh-huh. Started going to church services, that kind of stuff.
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So there was an influence on Joseph just like there was on Leon using their delusional characters or delusional friends, authority figures, whatever. And I think even Dr. Yoder prescribed, the fake Dr. Yoder prescribed a placebo for Joseph's stomach ailments. He had like digestive problems or stomach hurt. And these placebo pills just fixed him right up. Yeah.
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Yeah, he apparently stopped writing to Dr. Yoder and moved on to JFK. Started writing letters to JFK asking to be one of his speechwriters because, remember, he was a writer as well. Right. So Rokic is like, okay, all right, let's see what's next. Oh, nothing's next. This is the end of the line. He finally realized, like, okay, this is— not going anywhere.
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Not only had he not at all moved Clyde's delusions or Joseph's delusions, the only persons whose delusions had changed at all was Leon's, and his had just gotten more complex and intricate, certainly not any closer to reality. They got further away from reality because of this influence from Rokeach and his experiment. And he has like a pretty rich little admission in the book.
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But they didn't, and that's okay. And we don't have to talk about that movie ever again now that we have. Instead, I think we should start by giving a little background on the guy whose idea the Three Christs of Ypsilanti experiment was. And it was a researcher, a psychologist, a social psychologist. Your favorite? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Named Milton Rokeach.
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That he says that we do not know to what extent our very presence, behavior, and questions may have influenced the results obtained. Which is bizarre to say because the whole point of the experiment was to influence these people through this experiment. So it's a really weird thing that he even put it in there.
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And from some of the stuff that I've read, kind of picking apart this book at the end, it really just kind of peters out and like he's just kind of slashing in the air with his sword trying to figure out, you know, what the point was of all this stuff. And even without like a satisfying conclusion or end.
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And it ended up getting published in 1964 and became, like, a really big success in the field of psychology, but also got widely criticized right out of the gate.
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Because even though this was mid-century America, and we're talking about mental patients in mid-century America who have very little rights or were treated very poorly, like, there were still, like, a lot of people around who were like, you don't do this to human beings. This is not okay. Not everybody did, but some critics definitely came out immediately.
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No, he finally figured out the point of the book and the point of the book was for him to figure out that it was unethical what he was doing and finally come to terms with what he'd done to these poor men and that you have a right to just be left alone and not have your identity challenged no matter what you believe you are, who you believe you are. And so he actually changed his methods.
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His general belief in the idea of belief systems changed. remain the same, but he changed his tactics in that he got involved in self-confrontation where he would try to present people with, you know, self-examination where they would examine what their values were, what their beliefs were, and then they would kind of be challenged on that. Like, okay, you believe in freedom.
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You place a high value on freedom. Uh-huh. But you also rated equality pretty low. But isn't equality freedom for everybody? So you care about your freedom but not other people's freedom? How does that really jibe? And then the hope was that they would go back and self-reflect and be like, no, I really do care about freedom. I do care about other people.
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And Milton Rokeach had some ideas about what it was to make up an identity, what made up a person's sense of who they were. Yeah. And he basically had broken it out into beliefs, a series of different kinds of beliefs, which we'll kind of talk about here or there a little more. Yeah.
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Maybe I should care more about equality and improve as a person. And that's ultimately how he ended up making his name starting in the 70s.
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I know exactly what you mean. It's still smacks of self-involvement and egotism. And also, like, what happened to these men after the experiment was done? They were just cast right back into the general population. That's right. Like, used Kleenex, basically, to deal with what they'd just been through. It's just rotten all around, for sure.
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And at the very least, it does exist to make Milton Rokeach feel better. Right, right. You got anything else?
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Nice. And if you want to see the movie that they remade about this, don't. Nah. Well, since I said don't see that movie, it's time, of course, for listener mail, everybody.
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But there's this anecdote that's frequently passed around that kind of like lays the early groundwork for this idea that someone's belief in who they are could conceivably be challenged. And it came one night when he was sitting around the dinner table with his wife and his two young daughters.
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Just no matter what. Everybody tells you to stop. Please, God, stop. Don't quit. You don't listen.
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Way to go, Jared, from all over the place. I think Idaho.
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So let's see. If you want to get in touch with us like Jared did, please email us, won't you? You can send us an email to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.
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And he accidentally, in like a moment of frustration telling them to settle down at dinner, called one another by their opposite names. And the girls just thought that was like the funniest thing they'd ever heard at first.
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Yeah. I even stuck my finger up like, all right, now you. But you can't see it, can you?
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Yeah, and he learned a couple of things. One, you can very quickly challenge somebody or you can very quickly push someone to a state of like trauma or anxiety or panic even.
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Just by simply challenging their identity by calling them the wrong name purposefully.
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He also, right. Yeah, I know, Jerry.
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Do it one more time and I will crumble. Okay, Jerry. Thank you for, oh, God. But he also learned like, okay, there's consequences to this. You can't take somebody with a well-formed, well-developed sense of identity and I guess a normal sense of identity and push them to the edge, mess around with that sense of identity. There's harmful consequences to that. Yeah.
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So he started to kind of explore this. And like I was saying, like he had broken everybody's belief system into a handful of different types of beliefs.
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Yeah, and when it's time to collect that money, Squarespace offers an easier way to collect payments so you can focus on growing your business. You can invoice clients and get paid for your services, turn leads into clients with proposals, estimates, and contracts, and simplify your workflow and manage your service business on one platform. What else could you possibly ask for?
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And the belief that you are who you are, which is what we call our identity, he ascribed to primitive beliefs, which are just like basic truths in the same neighborhood as, you know, I'm wearing a headphone on one ear and I have the other one behind my head right now. I have brown hair. My name is Josh. You're Chuck.
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Like just basic truths of the universe that anyone you talk to is going to generally agree with. Right. That's where the personality comes from.
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Right, right. So what I was saying a minute ago with like how we saw that there's consequences to messing with a sane person. I just made air quotes if you couldn't tell from my intonation. Messing with a sane person's identity. You can't really do that. But this is the mid-century in America.
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And there's a whole group of people that you can do basically whatever you want to with as far as mental stuff goes. And that were people who are suffering from mental conditions who were locked up in state institutions at the time. And so Rokic came up with this idea like, OK, wait a minute.
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What if I what if I got my hands on some mentally unstable people, some possibly diagnosed people and messed with their sense of identity, took their delusion and challenged it? That could be okay because, hey, their lives are basically useless anyway. I'm paraphrasing Roe Keech here. And if something does come of it, there's a good chance that it could be positive instead. So let me have it.
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Let me add them, basically.
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Right. Yeah. That's like the perfect motto for the misguided intentions of this study. Yeah.
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Exactly. Just right out of the gate. And I read this commentary magazine article from 1964 by, oh, I can't remember who it was. I don't have it pulled up, but he's a famous poet at the time. And he was basically saying like, you know, surely Rokeach, the guy who's writing the book, Well, it understands that Rokeach, the character, this doctor, is like out of his mind.
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And he's like slowly realizing, oh, wait, this guy, even the author of the book has no idea that the doctor character, who's himself, has any idea just how unethical this is. And that's a great example of it that demonstrates it right off the bat.
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Sure. I've heard public radio before.
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Same here. Fresh air. I always still love fresh air. But it's one of those things where I just bulk it up. And then like when I'm painting a room in our house, I listen to just fresh air the whole time or something. You know what I mean? Yeah.
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Would that do it? Yeah, I wouldn't even begin to bother her until we hit 20 years, and then maybe, yeah.
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Yeah, there was a man in the 17th century that Voltaire wrote about named Simone Morin, who was deranged in the parlance of the time. And he thought that he was Christ. And so he was locked up in a madhouse. And he met in that place, in that institution or asylum, another man who thought he was Christ. And Simone Morin saw Christ.
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just how like crazy this guy seemed and was like, wait a minute, maybe I'm crazy. And in confronting this other guy who claimed to have the same identity, he regained his sanity to a certain extent. And unfortunately, he relapsed and ended up being burned at the stake for heresy. But there was a moment there where he had kind of like been knocked out of his delusion. That's a huge deal.
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If you have schizophrenia or delusional beliefs, if your mental disorder is to the degree where you hold delusions, and we should say a delusion is not like a made-up belief where you know you made your belief up. This is what you think is real. It is real to you, and you will defend it when it's challenged.
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Selects: The Three Christs of Ypsilanti Experiment
Hi everybody, it's your old pal Josh, and for this week's Select, I've chosen our episode from August of 2021, where we take a look at one of the most unethical social psychology experiments in the history of the field, where Dr. Martin Rokic assembled three men who each believed he was Christ, put them in a room together, and sat back and waited for the fireworks to start.
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So the idea that somebody who was delusional could be knocked out of their delusion by being confronted with somebody else who had the same delusion, that is groundbreaking. And I can see why Roe Keech was like, there we go. That's it. There's my methodology for this experiment.
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Plus a great book title. It's one of the great understated book titles of all time.
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No, and I mean like Ypsilanti is like this town outside of Ann Arbor where, you know, that's where one of the mental asylums were in Michigan at the time. And it's just like, you know, it might as well be Walla Walla or Lackawanna or it's just an unusual name in a town that doesn't really have much of a claim to anything. You know what I mean?
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No, no, it's not an insult. It's just, it's not like a hot happening town. And it'd been like the three Christ of New York that loses something or the three Christ of London. It's just a rather generally unremarkable place. Guys, Ypsilanti, if you live there and you don't know that it's Generally unremarkable. I'm sorry to be breaking this news to you. I don't mean it in an unkind way at all.
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Okay. To let everybody really stew on what I said?
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And if you were a fan of the old Sesame Streets back then, not all, but many of those little short films, the little claymation ones or the live action ones, he directed those as well, which is pretty cool. I never knew that.
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Yeah, it wasn't like he was anti-puppet by any means, or anti-kids, because one of the big reasons he signed on with Children's Television Workshop was their goal to educate kids. It meant a lot to him, but like you said, I think to merge those worlds successfully was a big part of his goal and struggle for a little while.
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Yeah, because he was a tall guy. Yeah, tall and lanky. Man, he was skinny. Oh, those running shots in Time Piece. Exactly. Because he was in it. They were hysterical. Yeah, and he weighs about 70 pounds somehow. His big lanky legs.
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Yeah, if you ever... Well, some people might think it's kind of ruining the thing, but I think it's really neat. If you just look up on Google Images, Muppet Show behind-the-scenes pictures, and it'll show the stage sets six feet off the ground and all the people standing beneath. I think it's awesome to look at, but some people want to keep that illusion alive.
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So depending on what kind of person you are, either seek that out or don't.
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Yeah, I think they're really cool pictures. I agree. Because, you know, a lot of times they're looking at video monitors, standing there, contorted, using both hands. Right. Like, the way puppeteers work together, to me, is just a miracle. Yeah. Because they're acting as the puppets, but they're still moving among one another as humans underneath, which can be really complicated.
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In fact, we know some really, really talented puppeteers here in Atlanta.
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Yep, and that is where we had our TV show debut party, premiere party. Yeah. It was a really cool experience. Emmett Otter and the gang are right there on display. I think Henson and Kermit cut the ribbon for the grand opening back when it opened. ended up donating like 500 puppets and Muppets to the Center for Puppetry Arts.
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So if you ever visit Atlanta, people always email us and say, what should we do? I highly recommend going and checking out the Center for Puppetry Arts.
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Yeah, but I was talking about Raymond Carr, our friend, who I hate to keep bringing up the TV show, but it all kind of overlaps. He was a production designer for Stuff You Should Know on Science Channel.
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Yes, people. Because we work for a corporation, we have things like sensitivity training. Uh-huh. And in those trainings, you get shown video examples of various forms of harassment. And they are the best, most fun things to watch ever.
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And he and his friends, Brandon and the gang, are...
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amazing puppeteers and they're doing some really really leading-edge like cool stuff here in Atlanta yeah like these giant puppets operated like you know 15 foot tall puppets operated by like six and eight people have you ever seen the spaceman that they do no it's unbelievable it's really cool it's like it I don't know how tall he is he seems like he's 20 feet tall
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And they, you know, do these at parades and stuff. And it's just really, really cool stuff.
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Yeah. But Henson is a huge inspiration to them, obviously.
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Yeah. Yeah, show me someone who doesn't like Muppets in any form. I get it if you don't like it anymore, maybe, but your heart is cold and dead inside. For a while, and this is something I don't think I knew, he dabbled on Saturday Night Live in season one. Lorne Michaels got him a deal...
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to perform some sketches, and ultimately it wasn't a huge success, and it wasn't the greatest marriage, but it was pretty cool that he was seeking out different avenues to get those puppets on television. It was. And his big break came in 1975. He wanted to make The Muppet Show, and he had a lot of trouble in the U.S. still, even though he had his various successes on commercials and stuff.
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So he had to go to London... And a TV producer named Lord Lou Grade gave him a deal with Grade's ATV Studios and said, you know what, you can make your show. And The Muppet Show was born.
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We take it for granted a little bit because we were kids, but now as an adult, it's like, what a perfect way to frame this world. It's basically like 30 Rock, or 30 Rock was The Muppet Show.
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They need to have a good old-fashioned variety show again.
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Those were big back in the day, you know, like a host comes out and then there's sketches and singing.
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Yeah. I miss those variety shows, though, like the Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton and Carol Burnett, all the Bandrell sisters.
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That's the new touchstone for his life, The Cube. Yeah, PC and BC. So The Muppet Show was a huge hit. It won...
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Yeah, and speaking of adults, he got into some more serious themes with his next great show, Fraggle Rock. Yeah. In 1983.
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Yeah, the one that really got me was the... Actually, they were all really funny, but the one with the old guy in the factory loading boxes, like a shipping warehouse, and they were giving the old man a hard time about everything. Because he was old? Yeah, because he was old, and they were giving him a hard time because he'd... He was out of work for a while, and they had to cover for him.
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Yeah, it was one of the first HBO original series.
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It was awesome. Fraggle Rock was great. And the idea there is you had the... the Fraggle Gang, and then you had three different groups. You had the home of Doc, who was an inventor, and his dog, Sprocket. You had the Fraggles, who shared caves underground of Fraggle Rock with their neighbors, the Doozers and the Gorgs, and these gigantic creatures that are in Gorg's garden.
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And the whole point of that show was was to show how different types of people can live together and work together in peace.
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It was really cool. Didn't know it at the time. when I was, you know, 12 years old. But what I was learning about was acceptance. And he won three Cable Ace Awards, five International Emmys, and Fraggle Rock was one of the first big hits for HBO, as far as TV goes. Great, great show. Lots of great songs that, I mean, he had every kind of, like, he had reggae, rock, country, bluegrass.
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He was all over the map with the music on Fraggle Rock.
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Yeah, we're just enough apart in age where, like, certain things I saw you were too young for and then certain things I was too old for.
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I was 13. So, yeah, I was just starting to be a teenager. Muppet Babies didn't appeal.
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Muppet Babies was cartoon though, right? Right. It was not live puppets, correct?
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Were they just the regular Muppets as babies? Yes. Oh, well, I'll have to watch that sometime.
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The old man, and he had the back brace on. Did you notice that? And the look on his face, he just kept getting a little more pouty the whole time. I was like, dude. That's good acting. Stick up for yourself. Tell these young kids what to do. The back brace prevents him from it. Anyway, I just had to bring that up because I just think that stuff is so funny.
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okay and we're back and we're still in the 80s that's right and you were talking about other TV as we said the man loved television and filmmaking and so he got away from the Muppets and puppets every now and then collaborated with Raymond Scott who was an electronica pioneer, actually, on shorts called Ripples and Wheels That Go. And he did that for the Montreal Expo in 67.
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And I know we're jumping around in time, but we're just trying to paint the full picture here, not going necessarily in order. And then he also did this cool thing called The Floating Face, which was a sketch that was on The Tonight Show and The Mike Douglas Show in the 60s. Did you see any of that?
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It was a little weird. It was like two eyes and a mouth, and there were like these invisible wires and... Background images, and it was definitely a little more on that surreal tip.
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The Henson surreal tip. Yeah. Not kid-oriented necessarily. But he got into the movies with the Muppet movie, which was a big hit. So good. It still holds up, man. It's still so great.
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go listen to the muppet episode and then come back to this one yeah it'll probably enhance your experience agreed or listen to them both at the same time uh but he followed the muppet uh in 1982 he made the dark crystal yeah which was uh puppets and it was based on um some drawings by fantasy artist brian froud and um there were no humans it was all puppets and
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And what's funny is people really do some of that stuff that you're like, what? There's some creeps out there. That was a really weird setup for Jim Henson because he's the least harassy guy he was probably ever.
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I don't think it holds up as well, but it still looks pretty good.
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Yeah, I think it was ahead of its time for sure. If you look at some of the CGI movies today, I think that Dark Crystal was a precursor to a lot of those. Then he went on to make the movie The Labyrinth. With Bowie, right? Yeah, David Bowie and a very young Jennifer Connelly. No, that was Legend.
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Good movie. But this was written by Terry Jones of Monty Python fame and then rewritten a bunch by a bunch of other people, including executive producer George Lucas. Labyrinth was okay. Not bad. Again, not a huge hit. for Henson, though, as far as movies go. But he was still out there exploring these cool, fantastical worlds and fantasy worlds.
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Yeah, The Jim Henson Hour. He was always pushing the boundaries. The Storyteller, looking back now, or I'm sorry, Jim Henson Hour, looking back, was really different from what you were getting at the time because it was all over the map. You had certain shows that were like... four or five sketches in one, and then three of the episodes were full-on one-hour little mini-movies.
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He's a genuinely good dude. It's not one of these stories you hear about like maybe some of your favorite children's books writers or cartoonists or something. Maybe we're kind of bad people.
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Yeah. That's a good point, actually. One of the little mini-movies was called Dog City, which was great. It was narrated by Rolf, and I remember watching this. It was like a film noir gangster thing with puppet dogs. And the main character, Ace Yu, was... The guy who did Elmo, Kevin Clash, did the character of Ace Yu. And that was fantastic.
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I think Dog City went on to be a TV show in its own right, too, for a little while. But it was really good. I mean, it's total, like, gangster crime film noir, but it's, you know, Rolf the dog and the gang.
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Well, yeah, the illusion that these are living, breathing things. He would go, I remember...
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Kermit as guest on talk shows right he wouldn't go out as Jim Henson he would go out as I mean he did those appearances as well but Kermit the Frog would be a guest on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson or host or host the Tonight guest host the Tonight Show and Larry King yeah and it was all a part of this um uh, goal of making these real people. Right. Or real living things, not people.
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Yeah, and probably without feeling silly or stupid or anything. You know, it probably seemed like a totally normal thing to do.
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He also pioneered the Henson Performance Control System and won an Academy Award for that. And that was a remote control system that helped puppeteers out. So he was always pushing technical, visual, stylistic, thematic boundaries as far as he could. And they didn't always work. The movies weren't, aside from the Muppet movie, they weren't the biggest hits.
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The TV show, neither one of those lasted very long. But I think he was just intent on doing something different.
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Yeah, I think pneumonia had something to do with it, too, didn't it?
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Very sad. And if you're ever in the mood for a good cry, watch the Jim Henson Memorial where Big Bird sings It's Not Easy Being Green. Yeah. Tough stuff, people. His children, his legacy lives on through 1993. Jane, his wife, founded the Jim Henson Legacy to preserve his contributions, share them with the public. And like I said, he donated 500 puppets to the Center of Puppetry Arts.
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And there is also the Jim Henson Memorial and Muppet Museum and traveling exhibits. And his sons and daughters help run his foundation, and some of them are puppeteers themselves and run the company. The company has changed hands a lot. I have sort of the boring... When he was still alive, he was going to sell it to Disney for $150 million.
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Yeah, and Disney went, whoa. He bought it. But he did not get that deal finished. But it turns out $150 million was chump change. Because in 2000, his children sold the entire company, including the Sesame Street characters, to a German media company for $680 million. And then, I believe, that company fell on hard times and they bought it back in 2003 for $84 million. Isn't that crazy?
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And in between all that, there are various exchanges of percentages of stakes with other companies and rights of certain characters. It's a little dull to go over all of that, but needless to say, they made up pretty well. And eventually, Disney now does, they do own all the Muppet Studio.
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Yeah, it says they sold the rights to the Muppets and Bear and the Big Blue House characters, which I'm not familiar with that one. Nor am I. But Disney wanted, I guess, that's sort of the player to be named later that's included in the baseball trade. Right.
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Yeah, they're great, and I hope we get tweeted about this one from them. They seem pretty great, Brian and Cheryl and the gang. They seem like they're doing right by the dad, and there's other siblings too, and I think they're all involved, super involved. And sadly, Jane passed away, I think, in 2013 at the age of 78. I would have loved to have seen what kind of work he did later in his life.
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This is, I'm going to call this sophomore, smart sophomore. Hey guys, my name is Matt and I'm a sophomore in high school. Smart sophomore. Smart sophomore. I'm a newer fan of the show and I listen while I do everything. Just wanted to say the dark ages were only dark in Europe.
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The life expectancy in the dark ages is actually a little longer than before, but mostly because there were smaller wars, but things were certainly brighter in the Islamic world. In fact, people in the Middle East were really enlightened during this time. Within about 100 years, they conquered a lot of new land, including Spain.
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Also, the Arabic language grew to be the language of philosophy, medicine, and poetry, and Baghdad became the world's center of scholarship. They translated almost all of the famous Greek philosophers' work into Arabic. Muslims developed algebra to simplify inheritance laws, and they made important strides in trigonometry to help people find a way to Mecca. Architecture grew, too.
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The Great Mosque in Spain only took roughly a year, while Medieval cathedrals took hundreds of years to build.
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So the Dark Ages weren't that dark, and the Enlightenment came earlier than most think. And that is from Matt. Thanks, Matt. That is enlightening stuff, my friend.
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Yeah. Yeah. It's true. We should hit on some more Middle Eastern topics. Let's do it, man.
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Yeah, because as a filmmaker... He's a puppeteer, obviously, but he was a filmmaker, first and foremost, which a lot of people kind of forget about. Yeah. Did you watch any of these? Oh, yeah. Man. That's a tough, tough job. Super stressful. And you and I have seen it can make good guys and good ladies be real jerks.
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Under stressful situations, you know. It's a tough thing. There's a lot of money on the line each day. Yeah.
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But Frank Oz, I think that's the point he was making. Even when he would get frustrated and stressed like that, he was still a good guy behind it all.
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Yeah. I mean, if you haven't, I just need to go ahead and say, if you haven't listened to the episode on the Muppets, um, this is a, a, what I consider just a more in-depth part two on the man himself.
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But that's one of our favorite all-time episodes. And from feedback, one of the great all-time fan episodes, um, Yeah, it was a great episode. Yeah, it was just a lot of fun, and so I hope this augments that one. I hope we do it justice.
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Yeah, he was born in 1936, September 24th, James Maury Henson, M-A-U-R-Y, in Mississippi. And his grandmother, maternal grandmother, was a painter and a quilter and a needle worker and apparently was a big inspiration to him just to seek out the creative in life. Right. Which is pretty great.
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Yeah, he loved television above all else from the time he was a little kid.
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Yeah, I think in high school, he was on the local TV station doing little guest spots. And then in 1955, the show Salmon Friends debuted, and that— He also did work on the side making money with, I think he did some of the really cool concert posters of the day, really colorful silkscreen posters. Sam and friends did really well, but he still wasn't quite sure. I still don't know if I want to...
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You know, I'm a filmmaker. I did these short films, really sort of weird, abstract short films, live action. Experimental. Totally experimental.
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Yeah, well, we should just set it up real quick. The Cube was a show on NBC. It was a one-hour show. From 1969. The name of the show NBC did was called Experiment in Television. It was a different thing each week, and he had one week's installment called The Cube, which was a guy just stuck in a white room, but other people could come in and out of the room, but he could not, right?
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Good morning, everyone. I hope you are watching Saturday Morning Cartoons, or maybe The Muppets, because this one is all about Jim Henson. I'm often asked what our favorite episodes are when we do the Q&A at live shows, and many, many times I go back to the ones on The Muppets and Jim Henson because he was just one of the best. This is from January 6, 2015, How Jim Henson Worked, American Hero.
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Sure. And these are weird, abstract art films. Um, Not unlike, you know, you watch like a Jim Morrison art film from film school.
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And it's kind of the same style, you know. That was what was going on back then. Yeah. And he actually got nominated for an Academy Award for Time Piece.
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Yeah. I'll agree with you there. So, like I said, he wasn't quite convinced that puppetry was his future because he was a filmmaker and he was like, puppets are still kind of kid stuff. Right. But post-college, he did the old tour of Europe. And in Europe, puppeteering is a whole different business. It was a lot more serious and a lot more, I guess...
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it was treated as art yeah exactly and he said you know what i am going to give this a shot came back to the u.s uh married uh jane and even though he and jane separated they never divorced oh really i thought they did no they never uh fulfilled the divorce they just stayed separated okay and um then he started making tv commercials
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And formed his own company in 1963 with, I don't know if he formed it with Frank Oz, but he hired Frank Oz and Jerry Jewell, who ended up being, obviously, legendary puppeteers and filmmakers.
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Yeah, and they weren't making funny commercials back then, so he was really pretty revolutionary at the time.
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Yeah, he was the wheel stealer, and he stole cheese wheels.
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Yeah, Ralph the Dog started out on Purina commercials. and was later a sidekick on The Jimmy Dean Show in 1963.
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All right, so it's 1969, and a very, very big thing happens to Jim Henson. He was invited to be on the pilot of a show created by the Children's Television Workshop called Sesame Street. He did not create it. Some people think he did. But he did make his mark by creating most of the iconic characters.
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Yep, delivered online, APU's programs make it possible to learn wherever life takes you. And courses are offered in 8- and 16-week formats with monthly start dates so you can begin when it's convenient and progress at a pace that's comfortable for you.
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Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck. And sitting in for Jerry today is our great friend and co-producer, Dave C. And the C stands for cool. Say hello, Dave. Hi, everybody. That's a really great Dave impression. He's a troll. He is. I always hear him as... Dave is great.
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So visit apu.apus.edu slash military to learn more. American Public University, education that moves with you.
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That's right, Chuck. Andrew Moyes, VP of Fan Expo HQ, had this to say about Orlando. Often, we will bring our entire team to Orlando for the event, and that includes our executive-level team members as well, and we're able to give them a great experience with luxury hotels, special restaurants, all those key things to feed into the proper executive experience.
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He also said that Orlando's easy airport access and close proximity to hotels and transportation make it a top choice for hosting major events.
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The Bronson Pinchot National Forest.
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Right. Well put. So the whole thing starts actually even before the whole thing started. And I saw in 1975 that two volcanologists published a paper saying that it was very likely Mount St. Helens was going to erupt in the 20th century at some point, like a big one. Yeah. And five years later, on March 20th, 1980, the whole thing was kicked off by a 4.0 earthquake, which is nothing to sneeze at.
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And it was at the mountain, like this earthquake took place at the mountain. And all of a sudden, within five days, there were quake storms. There was 24 quakes of 4.0 or greater within eight hours.
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When a volcano starts doing that and you're detecting it, that's when the geologists come running from far and wide.
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You're going to have to take our word for it.
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Yeah, like, the thing is, is the people who did live on the mountain were not the kind of folk who listened to, like, you know, pencil neck college boys or the government to be told, like, leave your home. And then also there was those youth groups that were like, you're going to ruin our week at Spirit Lake. There was also Weyerhaeuser. They're hoping to get to first base. Exactly.
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It's like a roller rink over there. Yeah. And then there was Weyerhaeuser who had a contract to be able to log on the on the mountain. They definitely didn't want to have to shut down operations. So there's a lot of pressure, a surprising amount of pressure, you know, more than you would think to keep the mountain open.
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Speaking of take our word for it, Chuck, I have to say to all the people who don't know much about Mount St. Helens, prepare to have your socks knocked off.
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And David Johnston and Don Swanson and some of the other colleagues were like, you really can't do this. And they managed to convinced the governor of Washington that it was the right move. And then later on, as we'll see, there was even more pressure to reopen because things didn't go as fast as everyone thought. And they managed to push that back as well.
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And as a result, David Johnston is frequently credited for saving thousands of lives, potentially, which is pretty cool. I mean, and everything I've seen about him, he was a genuinely great person and also like a really great pioneer in volcanology, too.
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Or your skin seared off of your muscle.
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Yeah, it's kind of like being buried in, like, you know, medieval times and having your live horse buried with you.
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Yeah, no way. Not a lodge codger. So Harry Truman will come back in. This is Harry R. Truman, by the way. Everybody said his middle initial to differentiate him. He'll come back in later. But so the last thing that happened on the mountain, March 25th, in eight hours, there's 24 4.0 or greater magnitude earthquakes. And that brought everybody running.
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This whole thing was so perfectly planned that on the day of the eruption, there was the mineral and gem show in Yakima, like I think less than 100 miles away from Mount St. Helens. So anybody who had anything to do with geology just happened to be in the area or was purposefully in the area. And then on March 27th, it's just getting more and more and more. There was an actual eruption, right?
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And none of that margarine stuff or low fat. It's like full milk fat butter. Oh, man. Bread and butter stuff you should know. Salted butter even. You like salted, huh? It depends on what you're using it for. I like just plain unsalted butter, even on a bread and butter piece of like bread with butter.
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They did. There's footage of them signing waivers on the hood of a car with some obvious state lawyer in a three-piece suit handing people a pen and being like, sign here. It's really hilarious. But they did. Some people started to trickle in. And that's actually why there were, you know, I think we ended up with 57 casualties, 57 people died. Yeah.
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And that was one reason why it was actually that high. It could have been less, but people were allowed to trickle back in. They still kept like a perimeter, but I think it was kind of porous. If you wanted to get through, you could get through. And there are stories in that minute-by-minute episode of people.
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There's this one backpacker who is probably hilarious at parties because he makes like a funny voice for the police when the police is talking when he's recreating a conversation he had.
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He snuck through with friends. There are a lot of people on the mountain that otherwise might not have been had they kept it closed. But they did open it up a little bit. And it was because nothing had happened for a little while. And then about three days later, everything happened. You said S was getting real. This is when the S hit the fan.
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Yeah, and I think there have been other colleagues and grad students and everything around Coldwater, too. And Johnston sent them away. He's like, this is outside the red zone. It's still potentially dangerous. There's no reason for more than just one of us to be here at a time. So you guys go. So at 8.32 a.m. on May 18th, 1980, Mount St. Helens, like, blew up.
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And there's like a typical idea that people have of a volcano going off, and most of the time it's shooting like a huge thing of ash and magma straight into the air from its top. Yeah. But that is not what happened with Mount St. Helens. Mount St. Helens was a very specific and unusual type of eruption because it didn't go out of the top.
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It came out of the side, and it came out in what was known as a lateral blast eruption. Wow.
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Yeah, I got you. What's your brand?
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Yeah, and that created that bulge that kept growing by about six feet a day. That was what the bulge was. It is because, like, it's as violent as you can imagine that a bulge, something that could make a bulge on the side of a mountain would be. Yeah.
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And so under other circumstances, a Plinian eruption where a volcano explodes out of the top, like you typically think of, that pressure, that magma is going to basically force the top of the mountain open. And that's how it's going to explode. This is not what happened with Mount St. Helens. That kind of, I guess the hump was on one side. It was on the north flank, wasn't it? Yeah.
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So it was on the north flank. And the thing that kicked off Mount St. Helens eruption wasn't the volcano. It was actually an earthquake in the volcano. And that earthquake caused the largest landslide in recorded history on Earth. More than half of a square mile of Mount St. Helens suddenly vanished away. It just suddenly dropped off the side, the north side of the mountain.
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Yeah, and one of the reasons they were able to witness it, and we have such great documentation, is because at 8.32 a.m., a pair of geologists, husband and wife geologists, happened to be flying in a plane. Yeah. Because they'd hired a plane to go look at Mount St. Helens because they'd heard that, you know, there's some stuff going on.
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And they happened to make one more pass right as the mountain, that earthquake dropped the side of the mountain. They were, like, right above it in a plane, as a matter of fact.
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Right. You must be a social justice warrior. You buy local butter.
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Right, exactly. It wasn't going up and then coming back down. It was coming straight at you if you were anywhere north of the mountain. Yeah. And the reason why the north of the mountain was so dangerous is because that's where that hump had been.
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That's also where the earthquake moved a good portion of the mountain, which meant that all that pressure that was keeping that pressurized, superheated water from boiling under the mountain was suddenly exposed. It was—that pressure was gone. And so all of that incredibly hot water— Flash heated into steam. And when that happens, that expands.
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Like you said, one of the reasons steam can't exist in that situation is because it's too expansive. When it does have the chance to expand, it does so with incredible force. Yeah. And that's what happened. That's why Mount St. Helens blew out the side rather than the top, because there had been a weakening in the pressure that allowed all that to just blow out. And blow out it did.
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Like I've researched it. Like I've literally researched butter because I want to get the most bang for my buck. And it is at the top of basically every list. It's good. Of like any butter of any kind. It's really, really good butter.
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Good Lord. But, I mean, that's what it would take to move 0.6 square or cubic miles of mountain all of a sudden, too, you know?
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And that blast, Chuck, that 24-megaton blast, it was described as like a fast-moving cloud of heat and stones moving at some points pretty close to the mountain, 300 miles an hour. Oh, man. Heated to like 660 degrees Fahrenheit. I think that's like 380 degrees Celsius. Just blowing northward away from the mountain. And everything within eight miles of that, of the mountain, was in that blast zone.
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And if you'll recall correctly, David Johnston's Coldwater 2 camp was within about five miles.
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Yeah, I have the impression the same thing happened to David Johnston and also that ham radio operator who was volunteering to kind of document it. He documented David Johnston getting covered up. He said – He said, gentlemen, the camper in the car that's sitting over to the south of me, he was talking about David Johnston, is covered, is going to hit me too.
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And that was Jerry Martin, that ham radio operator, and that was his last transmission. He was vaporized as well, essentially. Everything, everything north of the mountain within eight miles was just destroyed. Just destroyed. Like entire hundred-foot trees that were like... 10, 12 feet in diameter, just completely flattened and also denuded of any bark on the way as well.
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Yeah, I carried around in my pocket.
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And this was just a blast. The landslide that was created from the earthquake that initially triggered the eruption, that had some incredible effects as well.
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Yeah, it was like it had so much power, Chuck, that Sly did, that one part of it was carrying chunks of rock as big as 558 feet or 170 meters across.
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That's as big as a 50-story building. It was moving rocks that size. Holy cow.
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fast as you can imagine down the mountain into the valleys. And I saw it described as if you were watching it from a ridge, as some people were, like far away, you would see the cloud or the debris starting to come at you. It would disappear into a valley, and then all of a sudden it would come up over the ridge and keep going. It was just filling valleys with rocks and debris. It's unimaginable.
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I haven't seen the tub. We have a stick because we have a cute little butter dish that we use. Of course you do. So we use the sticks. So anyway, back to Mount St. Helens, the episode today. I was four years old when this happened. So, I mean, I didn't know what was going on. But I imagine you were like, holy cow, this is one of the most amazing things I've ever seen on my TV.
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Trying to grasp what happened. And it's even crazier that some people are actually there watching this happen. Crazy. It is crazy. You want to take a break?
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So visit apu.apus.edu slash military to learn more. American Public University, education that moves with you.
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That's right, Chuck. Andrew Moyes, VP of Fan Expo HQ, had this to say about Orlando. Often, we will bring our entire team to Orlando for the event, and that includes our executive-level team members as well. And we're able to give them a great experience with luxury hotels, special restaurants, all those key things to feed into the proper executive experience.
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He also said that Orlando's easy airport access and close proximity to hotels and transportation make it a top choice for hosting major events.
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Yeah. I also saw that lake was now 200 feet higher in elevation than it had been before. As if like there was so much debris, it like raised the lake 200 feet, even though it also made it shallower. It's nuts.
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Yeah, I can't remember. I think by like 600 meters or something like that, some ridiculous amount of height just blown off. And that was another thing, too, like the after effects of it. If you look at Mount St. Helens today or especially like right afterward, it turned into like an amphitheater. Like the north side was blown out and the other sides were kind of curved around.
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And what was neat is one of the huge aftereffects of Mount St. Helens, one of the more positive ones, is I saw it described as like a crash course for volcanologists and seismologists and everybody who now just had this amazing natural laboratory to study in. And the eruption, because it was a lateral blast, opened up like basically a cross-section of the mountain,
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That they could study now its past history from the inside out, which I thought was pretty neat.
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Oh, wow. That was just completely made up.
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I also saw there was a lot of devastation. Any big game animal in the blast zone was, I said big game animal, by the way, was in the blast zone, was killed without question. But they were very surprised. Biologists who went in to investigate shortly afterward found there were like entire communities and ecosystems of smaller animals and plants everywhere.
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microbes, fungi that had survived just fine and were among the first to recolonize and were part of the reason why Mount St. Helens ecosystem started to rebound so quickly.
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Probably. And then the animals that lived underground will come above ground and say, it's our time, baby. I look forward to that day for some reason. What else happened? Oh, I saw that the ash cloud that blew finally out of the top, we should say that the lateral blast was followed by a plinian blast. Right.
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And that shot, like, you know, that was the money volcano shot that everybody was looking for. A plume of ash and smoke rose 80,000 feet into the air. And it was moving so fast that it circled the globe in 15 days. Came back to square one in 15 days. And, of course, that was, like, affecting air traffic. Do you remember that Icelandic volcano that affected air traffic in Europe for, like, weeks?
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Yeah. Weren't you stranded by that or something? Yeah.
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Okay. I don't think so. Okay. Like they knew what to do in part because of how Mount St. Helens affected air travel. At the time, they were like, this is brand new to us. But it helped lay the groundwork for understanding what to look for, how to deal with that kind of stuff later on.
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Yeah, if you could do that lumberjack log rolling thing, you could have probably made it across the lake. You probably could have.
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Yeah, although I think it was more of like a regional thing for the lead up. And then also if you were a geologist, a volcanologist, a seismologist, anything that had to do with volcanoes erupting or mountains, then it would have been a big deal to you too. And it definitely attracted them from far and wide. And because there was so much warning – And it was able to, by it, I mean, Mount St.
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But in that minute-by-minute episode, there was a pair of high school sweethearts who'd been camping, and they had a harrowing experience because they both got thrown into Spirit Lake, and the boyfriend was able to rescue the girlfriend as the logs were starting to close in on him. He pulled her out from the lake, and they were hanging on to logs when they finally made it out. And were rescued.
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That happened. Like that happened to somebody. Yeah, they were in their car. Oh, is that how, that's how they got in the lake? They were in their car?
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Right. Yeah, because there were trees everywhere floating around beside them, right? Yeah.
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Right. Yeah, and some people didn't make it. There was one guy who was chronicled in that that was driving as fast as he can, and the blast just caught up with him and buried him in the ash, and he probably died pretty much instantly. But, like, again, that happened to people. There's very famous footage of a house just flowing down like a newly engorged mudslidey river.
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Moving so fast that you probably could have towed water skiers from the house, essentially. It was moving that fast just down the river. So, I mean, again, it was one of the most documented volcanic eruptions of all time. So there's really amazing footage on there or just on the Internet is what I mean. But that wasn't the last time that Mount St. Helens has erupted.
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I think it erupted a few times between 1980 and maybe 1996, I think.
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And then the biggest one recently was between 2004 and 2008.
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Yeah, I believe, you know, the eruption was such a big deal that they've opened, the USGS opened a research station nearby. And also that 2004 activity basically ran from 2004 to 2008. Like you said, they've been studying the mountain closely. So there's amazing time-lapse footage Of those four years. And it's astounding how fast and how big Mount St. Helens just grows from that eruption activity.
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It's called time-lapse images of Mount St. Helens dome growth. It's on YouTube. And I recommend checking that out as well.
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Or bulge growth. Oh, boy. So, man, we are so juvenile sometimes, aren't we? Sure. And by we, I mean me. No, me too. But like we said, Mount St. Helens bounced back. Spirit Lake opened back up. And the Coldwater 2 Station has been renamed after David Johnston. And there's an amazing memorial, too. I saw on some TripAdvisor post that somebody said it was like one of the best –
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Helens was able to kind of draw to it like a magnet. All of these amazingly well-trained researchers, they were there when it went off. And it's probably the most best documented volcano in history because of that.
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Like, not welcome center, but, you know, information centers that the person's ever been to. So I would like to go there someday.
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You got anything else? I got nothing else. All right. Well, go forth and research Mount St. Helens with Ines. And you can start doing that by watching Dante's Peak. Since I said Dante's Peak, it's time for Listener Mail.
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Top to bottom, start to finish, wonderful email. Also, just put so nicely, too. Not like you big dummies. Yeah. Because I got it pretty wrong. It was a terrible guess. I didn't think it was a bad guess. But, I mean, that was really hard. Like, that was obscure, you know? Very much. Anyway, I love knowing that now. That was one of my favorite emails. So thanks a lot, Nat.
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And if you want to be like Nat and get in touch with us in the best way possible, you can send us an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
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So visit apu.apus.edu slash military to learn more. American Public University, education that moves with you.
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OK, so just a real quick refresher. We've done volcanoes and I think we've done super volcanoes, too, because that sounds like us.
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OK, so we talked a lot about how volcanoes work in those episodes. So if you want to know a lot more in depth, go check those out. But just as a refresher for the specific kind of volcano that Mount St. Helens is, it's a stratovolcano and it's created when one younger plate is subducted under an older plate.
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And as the younger plate goes down into the bowels of the earth, all of the rock it carries with it gets heated up. Same with water, too. And that stuff travels upward because it's less dense than the surrounding mantle down below. And as it gets closer and closer to the crust, it wants to pop out of there.
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But it can't necessarily. Sometimes it can. And when it can, it just spews out all sorts of molten lava and that builds the volcano in a kind of a cone shape, which is what Mount St. Helens was up until May 18th, 1980.
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Right. Yeah. 40,000 years ago, maybe less.
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Right. So the whole thing that's driving Mount St. Helens, and apparently also there's some other, I guess, volcanic mountains in the area, like Adams. I think Mount Adams is one as well. Yeah. There's a magma chamber somewhere under there, I think possibly miles and miles below the surface. But under normal circumstances, like I said, when a straddle volcano is formed, the magma
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The lava just kind of is able to find cracks in the crust and like it's released through there and it builds the mountain up slowly and slowly. But if there's not a crack in the crust, as in the case where Mount St. Helens is, that magma starts to back up. It hits the crust and it starts to back up below.
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And all of a sudden you have a lot of stuff going on that makes things go kaboom when the right set of circumstances happens.
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Yeah, like this pressure is building up so much, it's causing a boil on the mountain. The mountain grows a goiter, basically, and that's just full of pressure and magma just waiting to go off. It doesn't always go off. And in fact, Mount St. Helens had two bulges, also called cryptodomes, which is pretty awesome, from previous volcanic eruptions.
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One was called Goat Rocks Bulge, and then the other one was called the Sugar Bowl Bulge. And they just never – like the magma found its way out other ways, but the bulge was left. This is a new bulge, and like you said, it was growing I think about six feet a day. Every day it kept growing another six feet, which is really fast for a mountain to grow. Mm-hmm.
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And that was one of the big signs initially that something was going on. And one more thing before we start to get into Mount St. Helens itself, Chuck. I think we need to say, like, Mount St. Helens was big. It was a big eruption. But it was not the biggest eruption Mount St. Helens has ever had.
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Apparently, the biggest eruption it's ever had came just about 4,000 years ago, which is within traditional, like, folktale memory. Yeah.
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Hey everyone, it's Josh, and for this week's SYSK Selects, I've chosen our January 2023 episode on the Mount St. Helens eruption. Seems like just last year. It's a really good episode that's packed with science, action, adventure, heroics, life and death danger. It's got it all. It's one of my favorite episodes, so I hope you enjoy it as well.
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Yeah, I think that's a great idea, actually. And the reason they call it Luit, that was she was named after a like a famous volcanic fire tender woman. And Luit and a couple of other men who fell in love with her and fought for her became Luit became Mount St. Helens or Luit, if you want to call it that. And then the other men who were fighting for became Mount Hood and Mount Adams.
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They were smited by the creator God and turned into mountains for fighting. And there's legends, not just from the Puyallup, but other indigenous tribes around the area that something really big happened. And it looks like what it is is a geomyth, which we've talked about before.
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And I think the Great Floods episode that has been handed down generation after generation that describes this enormous eruption 4,000 years ago. Pretty good stuff. Yeah, for sure. And it was a big eruption, too. There's just one other thing. There is a layer of tephra, of basically volcanic ash and debris and stuff, that is so thick and so wide it goes up into British Columbia.
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And 62 miles away from Mount St. Helens, it's still 20 inches thick, almost two feet thick of ash, 62 miles away. That's how big that 4,000-year-ago eruption was.
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I'm being short because I don't want to take up too much time talking about certain things.
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Yeah, I love that story. I forgot about him.
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No, definitely not. Because also in the 19th century, there was a lot of eruptions, too. There's a painting by a Canadian artist named Paul Kane who painted an 1847 eruption. So, I mean, starting in the 19th century, Mount St. Helens was documented pretty clearly, scientifically, too, as being an eruptive volcano, a disruptive volcano, you can almost say.
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Yeah, he was just like this dude who lived in Delft in the Netherlands and never left his hometown and had a wife and 15 kids. Fifteen. Yeah, 15 kids. And just kind of painted, and he made probably a comparatively small number of works. I think around 36 are attributed to him. And there's a theory that as many as a fifth of those were done by his oldest daughter, Maria.
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Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there, and Jerry's here somewhere, so this is Stuff You Should Know, the Art World edition. Yeah.
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but he's kind of like this enigma at the time, not just personally, but also the stuff he was painting. There was a huge movement among the Dutch painters at the time that they would paint like these, you know, horrific hellscapes or there was a lot of like obvious narrative and symbolism just all over the paintings. There was just a lot going on.
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Vermeer went a different way where he would almost peek in on very normal daily life and capture like these really just kind of boring or otherwise mundane moments. But he did it in a way that this guy was like the master of light. He makes Thomas Kinkade look like puke as far as like, you know, light mastery goes. Yeah.
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Oh, no, the Mona Lisa's eyes actually don't follow you. I think that was the big reveal of that one.
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Yes. From what I've seen, art critics and historians basically tend to think that there was no person that this was modeled on. It wasn't even necessarily his daughter. In fact, it was kind of a trend at the time, a painting called a tronie, which was an imaginary figure, a person who didn't actually exist. And the point was to kind of show off things like costumes and jewelry, which is...
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ostensibly the point of that painting. But the thing is, the Vermeer, the face that he did and the place that he put her, like we were talking about how she gets compared to Mona Lisa. She's called the Mona Lisa of the North. Mona Lisa is like sitting back in the painting. The girl with the pearl earring is like right in the foreground, like right. There's very little between you and her.
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And she's turned around and her mouth's open, which apparently was very unusual for painting Dutch painting at the time. And it looks like she's going to say something. I guess that that is what entrances people with this image that, you know, what's she going to say? What did he capture her about to say?
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You know, it looks like she's turning around like, oh, and, you know, this other thing I hadn't told you.
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She said yes anding.
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Yeah, and I saw that argued as well, that it was like, you know, if we knew who she was, we would lose a lot of the interest in it.
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Yes. Yeah, and you're right. We probably won't ever know. But because of this, so like it wasn't like very well – thought of or nobody really thought much of it until 1995. The National Gallery used it as the poster for their big exhibit. But since then, a lot of people have really kind of examined it.
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That sounds like something I would skip, though, even had I thought of it. I don't know that I would have pulled the trigger on that.
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And I hadn't noticed this before, but I saw it pointed out, Chuck, if you look at the pearl earring, first of all, it's improbably large is how I saw it described, like the ear couldn't physically hold up a pearl that size. But then secondly, it's really basically made with two brushstrokes. Both of them are reflecting light.
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One is from the light source, and then the lower one is reflecting the light off of the collar. And it's pretty amazing that, you know, we talk about the girl with the pearl earring, and this pearl itself is like kind of a cultural icon too. And it's basically just two brushstrokes, which kind of goes to show how great Vermeer was.
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Have you ever seen Tim's Vermeer, the documentary?
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Oh, Chuck, you've got to see it. It's directed by Teller from Penn and Teller, which makes you think, like, how did he direct if he doesn't talk, you know? But he somehow did. I think he talks in private. It's about what? That's just a bit. And it's about a guy who basically figured out that Vermeer somehow projected images that he built in real life onto a canvas and then painted them that way.
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And he actually replicates a Vermeer, like, perfectly. It's really just one of the better documentaries you'll ever see. Very cool.
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So what do you think? On to Raphael? Yeah.
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Right. I would have just been engaged in self-loathing for the rest of the podcast.
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Yeah, totally. Doesn't it even talk? Doesn't it say something like someone's guilty conscience or something? I don't. Or am I making that up?
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So the portrait of the young man, which they think was a Raphael self-portrait, and actually we have no idea what the colors were because the only photographs we have of it were in black and white. But he used to hang in the Prince Zartorski Museum in Poland.
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along with two other really important paintings, Leonardo's Lady with an Ermine, which is a goat, stoat, I can't remember, kind of a weasel-like animal, and then Rembrandt's Landscape with the Good Samaritan.
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And all three of those and everything else in the Prince's Zartorski Museum were swiped by the Nazis when they came to Poland and placed in the office of a guy named Hans Frank, who was the head of the government for the Nazis in Poland, right? Yeah.
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I love this one, man. This is great. This reminds me like of a Stuff You Should Know episode from years back for some reason.
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Which seems crazy improbable that they would end up back with him. But they did. And the Allies came in to Poland, I guess, and arrested Hans Frank in 1945. And they were able to find the lady with an ermine and the landscape with the Good Samaritan. But the portrait of the young man was nowhere to be found.
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Sure, they definitely did, but the three most important pieces in the Prince's Zartarski Museum were those three, and two were recovered, one wasn't. And it's very odd to think that they were separated at any time, or that it's even odder to think that two were kept together, but one wasn't.
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And so because the portrait of the young man was not recovered, and it's a Raphael, who's one of the great Italian Renaissance painters, it's considered... Maybe the most important piece to go missing in World War II.
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You would think so. And, you know, maybe they will eventually.
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Well, some people think it was destroyed in that movie Monuments Men.
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They show the Nazis igniting it with a flamethrower in a cave with a bunch of other art. And, you know, there's a whole camp that says, now this thing is gone forever. So they did something to it because the Nazis were known to not just plunder but also destroy art as well, which just one more reason to love them Nazis.
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Yeah, I would guess not. No, I didn't realize it was on panel, but that makes sense. But the National Museum in Krakow bought the entire Princess Zartorski collection from a private collector for 100 million euros back in 2016. I know. And that included the rights to Portrait of a Young Man in case it's ever found. And for now, they have the original frame hanging empty in the gallery.
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Yeah, it's sad. It's very poignant. It says, come home. Come home. We're leaving the light on for you. Come home. Just like Motel 6. That's right.
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We'll see. We're going to play it fast and loose. I think that's another reason why it reminds me of an old Stuff You Should Know episode. Fast and loose. Like I was, yeah, fast and loose. First you got the fast, then you got the loose.
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So, Chuck, before I launch into a Sacagawea-type tirade onto you, is that how you accurately pronounce his name?
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So, okay. So instead we're just going to go with Van Gogh like everybody else, right?
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Sure, sure. I hear you. So Van Gogh was most – he was just such a sad, tragic figure. I feel for this guy so much after learning more about him. We should do an entire podcast on him if you ask me.
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But instead, here we're going to talk about his death because there is a mystery surrounding his death. He's very famous for having cut off his ear. He definitely did that. And I had always learned that he did it to impress a sex worker who he was enamored with. And he definitely did give her his ear after he cut it off. But that's not why he cut it off.
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He cut it off in a fit of angst, basically, after having an argument with his friend Paul Gauguin, who he was living with in Arles in the south of France. And he said, well, I'm going to make some sort of lemonade out of this lemon I just gave myself. And he took it to his, I guess, neighbor. hopeful girlfriend. And I believe she was not that impressed with it.
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Yeah, I saw that too.
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Right. So here's the thing. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence that supports that theory that he was killed by two boys. I buy it. It's also circumstantially plausible that Van Gogh died by suicide as well. But even if you take his story and start digging into it and the statements that he made, supposedly made, apparently everything we know about it comes from
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the owner of the inn where he rented a room's 13-year-old daughter at the time, who was a witness to all this. But even if you take what he supposedly said, it still doesn't add up. That number one, he shot himself in the chest. And most importantly, that number two, the gun that he shot himself with could never be found.
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I think I've heard it before that that series is the highest grossing movie franchise in the history of film, like worldwide.
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And instead of actually, you know, finishing the suicide, completing the suicide, he... Couldn't find the gun after he shot himself in the chest and just walked back to his room where he died after suffering 20 more hours. But still to the end, claiming that he had done this himself. Even if you take all that together, it seems like, no, there's something really fishy going on here.
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Yeah, which is very peculiar as well. Yeah, for sure.
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So what seems to have happened is that this gun, possibly that it wasn't actually murder or any kind of premeditated murder, more like a manslaughter where Rene and his brother Gaston were messing around and accidentally... Basically, he had seen a Wild Bill Cody Wild West show the year before and became obsessed with it. So that's what he was doing with the gun and playing cowboy.
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And that they had accidentally shot him with this gun that was kind of, you know, known to misfire. So the thing was that the gun was never found, right? Rene went back to school like right after that, which was still in the middle of summer break from what I saw. And the town seems to have circled the wagons around these boys because, you know, Van Gogh was an outsider.
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He was not very well thought of. He used to get really drunk and argue with the locals in the cafe and everything like basically every night. And these boys came from like a good, well-to-do family. So for many years, like that was just the thing, like it just happened. And then slowly, little by little, it seems to have trickled out some support for this idea.
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Like, no, like Van Gogh wasn't anywhere near this field. He said that he had shot himself in. He was actually on the road to the Secretan's house. And then finally, years later, René Secretan said that, you know, It probably was his gun and that Van Gogh had somehow gotten a hold of it. It seems likely that he was shot by them, whether accident or not.
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Yeah, it is. I really do want to do an episode on him.
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He did, but he also said that it probably was his gun and that somehow Van Gogh had gotten it.
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No, but also to backpedal and be like, it probably was my gun. Because that was another thing. Everybody was like, where did Van Gogh get a gun? Van Gogh didn't have a gun. And no one would have given Van Gogh a gun, you know? He was the guy who got drunk every night and had cut off his ear before. That was like, no one in town would have given him a gun.
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So the fact that he even admitted that it was his gun is probably as close as Rene Secretan ever came to confessing publicly about it, you know?
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Yeah, because if he wanted to die but was also – he didn't want to die by his own hand. Like this is kind of a lucky gift in a very strange way, you know?
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It's very neat. It sounds neat. I mean like basically they just make the stars come out whenever you come in. I think so. Like come sit in this yellow chair.
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Like, I can't even imagine. And plus also, I mean, it's pretty involved movie making, I would guess. Like, I'm sure because there's so many stars involved that, you know, the shooting schedule for each one isn't necessarily – you know, a year long endeavor or anything like that. And they probably have it down to like a pretty fast science by now.
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I got to check that out, man. Thanks for telling me about it.
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All right, Chuck, you want to finish out talking about Hitler?
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Is he in there as Hilter?
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That's great. Oh, yeah, he did them. Yeah, Hilter did these paintings. So we're talking not about Hilter, but about Hitler, Adolf Hitler in particular. And as everybody knows, Hitler was a frustrated artist.
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You know, people have made a lot of hay about how possibly the world would be a totally different place had he been accepted into the Vienna Academy of Arts. And he came, well, I don't want to say he came close, but he made two different attempts in one year to be accepted. Yeah. And they basically looked at his stuff and said, look, man, you have the skill of a draftsman.
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Maybe you should go into architecture. But you're not going to be an artist. And he said, architecture? That was a direct quote. But this was a huge deal for him. I think I read in Mein Kampf, I haven't read Mein Kampf, but I read an article by somebody who read Mein Kampf and said that he said it was like a bolt from the blue.
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And that, you know, he was pursuing this dream that his father would like beat him. Like his father enrolled him in a technical school. He's like, no son of mine is going to be an artist. He would beat him up whenever he brought the idea up. And so finally after his father died and then he nursed his ailing mother until she died, he got up the gums and did like go and enroll in art school.
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And apparently he, being Hitler, who I guess had been fairly –
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bonkers his whole life just knew that he was destined to become an artist so the idea that he was rebuffed not once but twice by this Vienna school these people were like the the people the guardians of what is art and what is not and they were telling him what you got is not um that was a huge deal to him it was a very big deal and it's funny it's just now occurring to me that there was sort of a similar thing with Manson's rejection as a musician yeah
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But like, I would think that would eat up a pretty decent amount of your time shooting one of those films every few, you know, a couple of times. Well, I guess every few years.
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So when he rose to power in Germany, one of the things he did was he had his works collected and destroyed. I'm not exactly sure what the thinking was behind that, I guess because he knew it wasn't very good. And he needed to focus on his political career rather than his artistic career or have everybody else focus on it.
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But to no avail, because I saw a 1936 critic or a critic wrote in 1936 that his style was prosaic. utterly devoid of rhythm, color, feeling, or spiritualism. And this was before he, I'm sorry, or spiritual imagination. And this was before he had really become an obvious threat. This is 1936. So even back then, even without hindsight, people thought his stuff wasn't very good. Yeah.
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Man, I'm slowly like degenerating into Bob Newhart, man. Have you noticed? Oh man, good. Yeah, you could degenerate into worse things than that. I mean, like, I'm really hitting that Newhart note these days, I've noticed.
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So, yeah, he had his stuff destroyed. And it was kind of a footnote for a very long time that he was an artist and no one really cared after his death.
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Yeah, Morgenstern.
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Yeah, and even if you can't necessarily suss out the future from his paintings, you can make a pretty strong case that his artistic ambitions being utterly crushed had some sort of driving force or impact on his psyche at the very least. Sure. That and his... his later political career and dictatorship did not exist in a vacuum.
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I don't think you can possibly make the case that they were just unrelated in any way.
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Yeah, the problem is because he didn't have a style of his own, that he was copying postcards, that he didn't have any formal training, and that he lacked a lot of creativity, or any creativity it seems like, it's really hard to say this is a Hitler and this is a fake. And there's developed a really enormous...
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Well, you've got it, buddy.
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market of fakes because anybody who's like a passingly good artist in watercolors of streetscapes and landscapes could drum up something and be like this is a Hitler and it would be really difficult to say yes it is or no it's not yeah what kind of a garbage human do you have to be to think I'll do Hitler forgeries and try and sell them to garbage humans that want to collect them
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Yeah, and it's not like these are even fetching like $10 million a piece. We're talking like you might get $10,000 for it for your Hitler forgery.
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So that's the mystery of the Hitler paintings. Did he do this? Yeah, did he do those paintings? You got anything else?
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For sure. So keep an ear out for that, everybody. And since I said keep an ear out for that, I think it's time for listener mail.
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So Caravaggio is my new favorite painter. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Not just because he was a scummy, low-life swordsman. Murderer. Murderer, yeah. He was a gambler. He had weapons charges against him while he was alive. He was not a good guy by any stretch of the imagination. Very troubled person is a really polite way to put it. But if you look at his art... Like, I had no idea.
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Thanks, Helen, Amy. We'll just call her Amy, as is customary.
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Wow, I can't wait until they read my listener mail, says Amy. If you want to be like Amy and get in touch with us for whatever reason, you can send us an email to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.
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I've seen, like, so many works of his art, and I never pieced together that they were the same person. And then when I really started to read some criticism of his work, I'm like, oh, my God, this guy, he's considered one of the fathers of modern art. And this guy was painting at the beginning of the 17th century, the early 1600s.
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And just like Pogs, he burned hot and bright and fast and furious, actually, sadly. Yeah.
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Like for a month.
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Yeah, it was an altar piece for the Order of St. John, also known as the Knights of Malta. They were going to, again, put this behind the altar in their church on Malta. And it was actually his little entry fee. They charged an entry fee, usually money, to their initiates.
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But they accepted this altar piece, this giant painting. of St. John the Baptist being beheaded. And it was actually, I mean, as far as a Caravaggio goes, especially toward the end of his life, it's actually fairly tame because there's not, you know, like jets of blood spurting out. It's a pool of blood that's being shown. He painted some really violent stuff.
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And like you said, that kind of, that he was a master of light and shadow. It's called Chiaroscuro. Yeah. And he used it to really dramatic effect, including in that painting. And in fact, one of the other paintings that you might have seen of his, Chuck, it's called Judith Beheading Holofernes. Have you seen it?
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So Judith, the woman who's in that painting, the woman who modeled for Judith, that was the woman that he killed Renuccio Tomassoni over.
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Did you know that? I did. Oh, you did? Okay.
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Yeah, another explanation I saw was that it was over a tennis wager. And this is real tennis, not lawn tennis. And real tennis is kind of like this kooky mix between squash and—
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racquetball and tennis and it's all indoors and there's like horse sheds basically involved that you can play off the roofs of it's really interesting stuff and he used to play that a lot too but so it was either over a wager or it was over this woman her name was what was it Judith No, Felide. Felide, I believe, was the actual woman's name who modeled for Judith. So he ends up on Malta.
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He becomes a knight. And when he becomes this knight, he paints this altarpiece. And he signs his name in the pool of blood, which you're like, well, he's an artist. That seems like something an artist would do. Not Caravaggio. This is actually the first and only work of his that he ever signed, which a lot of people are like, okay, wait a minute. Let's examine this.
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Right. So that's kind of like where the mystery comes in. Was he confessing to the crime of murdering Renuccio Tomassoni? Um, uh, From what I saw, most, I can't say most, but the art historians and critics that I saw basically said, no, he almost certainly wasn't doing that. For one, everybody knew that he did it. He'd already been convicted in absentia. That's what I thought.
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So it's not like he was confessing to it. Although you can make the case that he was confessing in the Catholic sense of the word. Do you know what I mean?
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Hey, everybody. It's me, Josh. And for this week's Select, I've chosen our episode on art mysteries. It's a great one. Chuck and I are secretly jazzed by art history, it turns out. And this episode is the best of any we've done on the subject. May also be the only one. At any rate, it's a good episode, and I think you'll enjoy it. So enjoy.
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Yeah, exactly. Or De Beers. Yeah.
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Okay, yeah. Well, I mean it was the altar piece. Like it was a big deal that they got their hands on it because he was a celebrated painter at the time already in his lifetime. But the other interpretation that he was saying F as in freighter or brother, Michelangelo –
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about himself, that's probably the likelier version because he was at the time seeking a pardon from the Pope so he could return to Rome. And by saying, like, I'm in this holy order, I'm basically like a Catholic orator holy man now, a leader of the church, because the order of St. John, the Knights of Malta have inducted me.
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He was basically shouting it loud and proud by signing that one particular very holy painting that he did.
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After a month, dude, he lasted a month in the Order of St. John. And it's not like they ran around willy nilly inducting people like they basically had no idea that they had. What was Vic's last name in the shield? Vic Tabak. No, not Vic Tabak. I don't know. I didn't watch The Shield. Oh, you didn't? That was good. I re-watched, like, the last seven episodes the other night. Oh.
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Over a couple of nights. It still holds up, actually. But anyway, they didn't realize that they had inducted him, the guy from The Shield, and they figured it out pretty quickly. So he made his way back from Malta to, I believe, Sicily on his way to Rome, and I think he actually got a pardon and got into yet another squabble, another sword fight, and sustained some wounds.
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And between infected wounds, they think he got a staph infection, lead poisoning. He apparently had gone rather mad from being exposed to the paints that he painted with. And then sun exposure, sunstroke on the beach in Tuscany finally killed him.
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Yes, it does. But his paintings are still just amazing. I can look at them all day, you know. Yeah, me too. I like this stuff. I do too. So that's Caravaggio. How about Vermeer?
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And it's also a story, though, of great feats of athleticism and social heroics as well. And even if you're not into baseball, I guarantee you'll like this episode. So enjoy.
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That actually paved the way for one of the great unsung chapters in baseball history, which was the creation of the Negro Leagues.
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Yeah, because that's a definite overlooked segment of the early baseball history are Latino players. Oh, totally. And one of the cool things about the Negro Leagues is they were integrated. They had Latino teams like the Cuban Kings out of New York, I believe.
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Yeah. And as a matter of fact, so this barnstorming thing, I want to talk a little more about that, right? Yeah. One of the reasons barnstorming came about was to make ends meet, but it was also because these teams had to figure out a way to put on games as cheaply as possible.
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All of the stadiums at the time were owned by whites, and the whites apparently were not very friendly to the idea of black teams playing in their fields. So if it were just like black teams playing...
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one another the white owners of the fields would just charge an exorbitant amount so these guys were going basically anywhere they could find a place that would stand still long enough for them to play a baseball game on yeah that's what they would play and they play like three games a day oh yeah every day yeah and they all traveled together and like um hung out with one another and spent a lot of time together
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Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry. And here's the stuff you should know.
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So, like, the Negro Leagues came out of this kind of camaraderie of barnstorming together.
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So, yeah, this guy, Rube Foster, he owned the Chicago American Giants. And confusingly, there was also another Negro team called the Chicago Giants. And the St. Louis Giants. Yeah.
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Louis versus Chicago. Yeah. But if it was Chicago versus Chicago, well, which one? The Giants. Well, which one?
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Okay, now I understand. Not just the Giants. But Rube Foster was like this booster of boundless enthusiasm. This guy literally put together the first real Negro League.
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And when he was basically removed from it, the whole thing fell apart. That's how much of a driver this guy was.
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Sportsy. I think really we should air on just the side of history.
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Right. So not only do you have black players' careers developing.
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You have like black enterprise developing in a time when there were very few avenues of opportunity for black people to advance in business. Yeah. In a sense where they own the business. This is a really good way to do it.
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Yeah, and that was a point of that article that I thought was pretty cool is that One of the things they lamented about the segregation of baseball during this time is that we'll never know how Babe Ruth would have stood up against Satchel Paige pitching to them because they never got to play each other. So the truly great players are truly great during this time within their own skin color.
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You know, you can't say they were the greatest in baseball because there were two legitimate parallel leagues going on at the time. And yeah, they played each other sometimes. But if you wanted to sit down and put stats against stats, you'd be very hard pressed to do that.
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Yeah, and actually it's funny you bring up Ty Cobb because I was like, oh, yeah, Ty Cobb was a huge racist. I wonder what he thought about the Negro Leagues. And I looked it up, and I found an article from a guy who argues that Ty Cobb was not the horrible racist that he's made out to be these days. Written by Jimmy Cobb.
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He found – well, he actually did cite his son, and I think his son's name might be Jimmy.
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Oh, wow. But the guy found an article from – Maybe the 50s or something, 1952, where Ty Cobb is quoted at length coming out in favor of integration in baseball. Yeah. Saying, like, of course these guys should play as long as, you know, they conduct themselves like professional baseball players. Like, why would they not be able to play? I'm totally in favor of it. Interesting.
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Yeah, that's not what this guy says. All right, well, I'm going to look into that. That's not what his son says.
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Dude, do you know the Atlanta team played directly across the street? Ponce de Leon Park. Yeah, where there's now a Staples and a Home Depot and a PetSmart. And a Whole Foods.
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If you walk into Whole Foods and listen, you can hear the ghost of a bat cracking on a ball.
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Ponce de Leon himself would have punched you in the stomach if he heard you say his name like that.
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Did you hear Whole Foods got caught with uncalibrated scales for their hot bar stuff? Like it's not already expensive enough? Right, yeah.
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Yeah, like peel it off with your teeth, spit the meat into your little basket and throw the bone back into the hot bar. Yeah.
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And everything's going pretty smoothly except two things happen, right? There was even like a Negro League World Series. Yeah. It was a best of nine. The Kansas City Monarchs.
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Yeah, the Kansas City Monarchs narrowly beat the, The Hildale team, they're from Darby, Pennsylvania, which I guess is near Philadelphia, in the first one in 1924. So these leagues have established themselves. By 1924, they have their own World Series going, right? Yeah. But just within a few years, there are a couple of hits to the league that ultimately led to the Negro majors disbanding.
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One is that Rube Foster suffered gas poisoning in a hotel room in Indianapolis. He was found unconscious. And there's some theory that everyone believed in ghosts and spirits and mediums in the 19th century because they were all being poisoned by the natural gas that was leaking into their kitchens and homes all the time. Well, this guy had an acute poisoning and was found unconscious.
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And after that, when he regained consciousness and was nursed back to health, he lost his mind. And he just kept getting worse and worse. And by 1925, I think this happened in 1924, 1925, he was institutionalized. And by 1930, he died of a heart attack at age 51. And again, his guidance was so integral in this first incarnation of the Negro Leagues that, you know, when he...
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was institutionalized obviously they weren't like what was the league do next yeah he was in an institution um and the league started to falter and fall apart and eventually that coupled with the depression the onset of the depression yeah really kind of led to the unraveling of the first negro league yeah and this uh the major league baseball site um you know these were
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Unless you were one of the Walker brothers whose dad was a physician. Yeah. Yeah, they probably had a little money. Sure. But they were playing, so I'm sure their parents got in for free. Probably so. So it's all just a moot point. I wonder if they did get free family tickets back then. I would hope so. That's got to be as old as tickets, right? Probably. We got to do an episode on tickets.
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No, a lot of these guys were still barnstorming on their off days.
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Yeah. There are plenty of white players who are better than the black players. And there are plenty of black players who are better than white players.
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Yeah. I would say evenly matched is a good way to put it. So if you had an integrated league, you would get the best of both. Right. Which is eventually what we got. Plus also in some of these cities, Chuck, there were not just baseball was segregated, but just within the city you had a white team and you had a black team. Right.
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And that's evidence to the names of some of the black teams, like the Black Crackers or the Black Yankees. Yeah, yeah. There were the Yankees and then there were the Crackers, right? So if you were a white player or a white person, you're probably a fan of the white team and you weren't going and watching the black teams play.
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I'm sitting here like, keep going. Yeah. So I think we should start with a little bit of history, right? So just a brief primer of American history. Okay. We'll start with slavery. It's a good place to start. The transatlantic slave trade built this country. Yep. And frankly, I'm just going to come out and say it. I think some of the major issues that the United States faces today are
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Yeah, that was the end of the first one.
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And there were more to come, and we'll talk about it right after this.
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Yeah. And this basically kicked off what's known as the golden age of the Negro Leagues. Yeah. Starting about 1931, 32, 33, when these other teams came about. And Greenlee's team himself, was it his? No, I'm sorry. It would have been right across the river, the Homestead Grays. Yeah.
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comes from a lack of accountability for slavery really is contributing to a lot of the inequality and a lot of the strife that we still face today and have faced over the decades. So you've got slavery, and then you had the end of slavery. You had the Emancipation Proclamation, which a lot of people say, oh, well, that was great.
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So they were the same team that went from one town to another? They weren't rivals?
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Yeah. Yeah, okay. And I was like, are we going to the right place when the car was taking me? So Homestead used to have not just a team. They used to have the best Negro League team possibly ever. Oh, yeah. Easy. For nine consecutive years, they won the pennant.
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Yeah, just some of them. In 1935, they had no less than five future Hall of Famers on the team. Five. That's amazing. Point to a team that has five future Hall of Famers on it now, or ever did.
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I don't know. I could see Freddie Freeman hitting the Hall of Fame one day. Mm-mm. Oh, really? I haven't been watching the last couple seasons.
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White players would come and see the teams playing and it was basically more popular than ever in both communities yes, and we said that they had the the Negro League World Series going on right yeah and There was actually another game that came out of this. I think it was, it might have been Gus Greenlee. I think it was. Who came up with this, the East versus West All-Stars game. Yeah.
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And that became bigger than the World Series in whatever was in the Negro League. Yeah, it was huge. Yeah. So that became kind of like the de facto big game of the year rather than the World Series for them. Yeah. And they played it every year, I think, in Comiskey Field. Oh, really? Yeah, in Chicago. Because, you know, East meets West in Chicago. That's right.
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That's what it says on the t-shirts, at least.
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Maybe the greatest pitcher of all time in the sport of baseball. Maybe. He was eccentric. He was an entertainer. Yeah. He was like the Usain Bolt of his day. People loved him. Oh, okay. Except he didn't like to run. That would make it a little different. He even said he didn't like to run. Yeah. What was his quote? He said that training for me is rising gently from the bench. Back onto the bench.
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Yeah, with those old-timey baggy baseball pants and all that.
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Abraham Lincoln spoke some magic words and freed the slaves, and everything was great. Yeah, it was just perfectly equal after that, right? No. No. So it took the union to win the Civil War to begin to enforce the Emancipation Proclamation in the South and in Texas. Apparently, Texas were among the last holdouts. And there was slavery going on in Texas like years after the Civil War was over.
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He first signed in the majors, white majors, at 42. Yeah, 42-year-old rookie, technically. He's the oldest rookie ever in Major League Baseball. And I think the oldest pitcher ever as well.
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So one thing that was problematic or is problematic when you're going back and looking at the Negro Leagues is that a lot of teams were allowed to, depending on the league, were allowed to set their own schedules. Yeah. Stats weren't kept quite as well as they were in the white leagues. Yeah, we don't know Satchel Paige's real lifetime stats in full.
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No, but there are some estimates, and they are high.
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So one that I saw is that Satchel Paige had, I think it was in this article on MLB.com, which eventually will say the author's name, right? Yeah. They said that he had 300 career shutouts. 300 career shutouts. And this guy says in italics, not wins. Yeah.
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Right. He would have pitched like all nine innings. Back in the day, they used to do that way more than they do now. Okay. So he had 300 career shutouts. 1,500 wins is the estimate that's on MLB.com.
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To also put it in perspective, Cy Young is regarded as one of the best pitchers ever in Major League Baseball. Sure, they named the top award after him. Exactly. He had 76 shutouts. Which is amazing. He had the most wins ever still in Major League Baseball at 5'11". So Satchel Paige had conceivably three times more wins than the highest win count ever in Major League Baseball.
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Which, again, was very, very long. Sure. It was a very long career, but that just makes it all the more amazing, especially as he gets older.
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And the fact that he sat in a rocking chair in the dugout and had, like, a huge personality, it's just awesome.
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He's like, no, it's called a hesitation pitch. Don't you know?
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They were just like, we're just not going to pay attention to that. Sure. So the Civil War is fought. The part of the Union victory of the Civil War was coming into the South and saying, like, all you Confederates, you guys are out of power. And as a matter of fact, this power vacuum is perfectly willing to be filled by freed blacks. Yeah. So go ahead. Run for office. Become judges.
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And those appearances, if you were a team owner that had Satchel Paige on your team, you might let him go make some scratch and probably take a cut yourself by lending him to another team whose attendance was struggling. And all you had to do was advertise for a week that Satchel Paige was going to be pitching one day and you would sell out.
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So he would help other Negro League teams that were struggling.
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Yeah, right. That was the thing. The Negro Leagues were ultimately, as we'll find out, victims of their own success. The players that they supported and brought into the game were of obvious Major League caliber. Oh, yeah. In any Major League. They were the best in the world. They were just playing on segregated teams and
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And so, finally, a group of people, but especially, it usually comes in the form of one guy named Branch Rickey. Yeah. Did Tom Hanks play him? No. Harrison Ford? No.
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I can't tell if it was him or not because the actor didn't have a diamond studded earring in, but Harrison Ford could have taken it out for the role. This guy named Branch Rickey, was he an executive or a manager for the Dodgers? He was... He was an executive with the Dodgers. And he said, and this was when they were in Brooklyn, right?
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He said, this is ridiculous. We need to break this color barrier. There's plenty of great players out there that I want to sign. I'm going to break this unspoken rule. And he looked around. to find a player who was not only good, but who he felt could withstand this horrendous reception that whoever the first black player would be would definitely receive. For sure. And who did receive.
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And he found it in the person of Jackie Robinson.
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Yeah. And I don't know if it was on this or on, there's a site called negroleaguebaseball.com that has a really good article called Negro League Baseball 101 or something like that.
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Like, become part of the Reconstruction power group. And that lasted for a very, very short time.
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It's just the basics. There's a definite story to the whole thing, right? Yeah. But they point out that Probably more than anything that helped break the color barrier was blacks serving in World War II.
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Serving alongside white soldiers and stories coming back from the front of like, hey, these guys are killing Germans just as fast as any white guy. Yeah.
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At the time, America was like, well, we love that about people. So when they returned, the black soldiers came home to a different America that they helped change by fighting in World War II. That's pretty cool. And I mean, the timing of this apparently is not coincidental that Jackie Robinson was signed in 1946, a year after World War II ended.
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The white southern former power base who were leading the Confederacy, and even ones who weren't necessarily part of the actual Confederate government or even the Confederate army, but just the people in your town who used to own the sawmill or whatever, that guy came back in power within a couple of years, and the white southerners who'd been supplanted, when they came back into power,
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Yeah, that's a good point, man, because a lot of times stories like this end up being about the guy who took the chance and paved the way for the black player. But he did. He did, but the emphasis, it's just too easy sometimes for the emphasis to go on to that. Where it's like, well, the black player was one of the greatest baseball players of all time.
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So, okay. So he was a complex human being like all other human beings.
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He can't just be shoehorned into an easy caricature.
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That's great. So Branch Rickey, complicated human being. He selected Jackie Robinson, and it was a great selection.
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Yeah, and they should. Great. But Jackie Robinson definitely threw open the floodgates. Within four months of Jackie Robinson being signed... Or no, I guess actually being called up to the majors.
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Two other guys were signed, both in July. And I think that year there were a number of other black players suddenly playing for white Major League Baseball, which is suddenly not now just Major League Baseball, not white Major League Baseball. That's right.
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Yeah, the Boston Red Sox notably were the last. They waited until 1959, 13 years after Jackie Robinson's debut season in the minors.
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They remembered the black people who had tried to take their positions. Right. And so it got ugly.
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I just went into Hulk speak. So, yeah, it would have been a much more satisfying end to the whole thing if the Negro Leagues had poached the best players in the white Major League Baseball.
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Yeah. Give them to us. Yeah. So that is Negro League Baseball, the history of it.
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And so rather than having actual legal slavery, it came in other different horrible pernicious forms, which came to be called post-Reconstruction the Jim Crow South.
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And this article makes a point today, or at least in 2012, Major League Baseball was 40% non-white, which I was like, what? I would have guessed it was the opposite of that. That it was 60% non-white? I would not have guessed 60% of Major League Baseball players are white.
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I know, I was pushed. My dad was like, get out there and get hit in the head with the ball. See, I wasn't allowed. I had to play church softball. So lame. So then the color barrier is broken, and now the last vestige of any sort of color issue is the Native American slurs that are rampant in all sports as far as teams go. Yeah, Atlanta Braves. Once we get past that,
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Maybe it'll be finally totally legitimate. If you want to know more about the Negro Leagues, you can type those words in the search bar at HowStuffWorks.com. You can also go check out this amazing article called Negro Leagues, a Kaleidoscopic Review. It's on MLB.com. And check out NegroLeagueBaseball.com. They have all sorts of great profiles on the players and all that stuff.
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I think you mentioned Cool Papa Bell. Yeah, Cool Papa Bell. That is the greatest name ever.
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Oh, yeah. Turkey Stearns, they definitely go for it. Those are great nicknames. All right. Oh, yeah. Okay, so now that we said Turkey Stearns, it's time for Listener Mail.
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Uh, no. Pneumatic. Pneumatic. Pneumatic is when you remember it while you're pumping air up and down.
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It's on the Major League Baseball website.
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That's not a mnemonic device, is it? It's pneumatic.
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Thanks a lot, Katie from West Texas. We appreciate that. Kings play chess on green silk.
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I'll never remember the fine part. Yeah. If you want to get in touch with us, you can send us an email to stuffpodcast at howstuffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.
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Right. And so if white people think that black people are inferior to them, who are we, the government, to say otherwise? Yeah, we're to try maybe and legislate our way out of it even. Right. So in, I think, 1896, there was a court case called Plessy v. Ferguson.
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And in Plessy v. Ferguson, the Supreme Court upheld and legitimized and actually made real the segregation that had already been going on ever since Reconstruction or ever since the end of Reconstruction, the beginning of Jim Crow laws, right? So the United States was officially segregated in 1896, but baseball had actually segregated years before that, but not— As far back as people think.
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And a lot of people think that baseball had always been segregated up until 1946 when Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier.
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Including me until yesterday when we started researching this. Oh, did you know this already?
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Well, yeah. So in 1867, I think, two years after the Civil War, there was already baseball. Remember, Abner Doubleday created baseball in what, 1839? Oh, in like 1300. But that's a legitimate story, right? Yeah. Like he really did. He was the inventor of baseball. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it did happen in Cooperstown, New York and all that, right? Yeah.
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Okay. I don't know, but was he in Cooperstown? I believe so. Okay. Well, that makes sense. So within just a couple of decades, there was the National Association of Baseball Players. They were the league, right?
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That's right, baby. My hometown. Integrated baseball team in the 1880s.
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Well, this is the 19th century. I think they phased him out.
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Okay. So the Walker brothers were playing for Toledo in 1886, right? Correct. Correct. And actually, this article on How Stuff Works Gets It Wrong says that they just played for the team for one year before the team went under. That's not the case, as a matter of fact. Moses Walker, they may have only played together on the team for that one year. But Moses Walker had played for years before them.
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Hey everybody, it's me, Josh, and for this week's Select, and in honor of Black History Month, I've chosen our 2016 episode on the Negro Leagues.
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And actually, Moses Walker and there were several other players at the time. In 1886 and 87, there were at least four black players in the minors. but the Walker brothers were playing for Toledo, which was a major league team, right? But the presence of Moses Walker actually brought to the fore this kind of simmering resentment and kind of the big elephant in the room,
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there's a black guy on your team. Right. What are you guys doing? And so Toledo actually went to go play the White Sox in Chicago. And the White Sox had this, like their great player of that season, I think in 1884. Who was it? Cap Anson. Great nicknames back then. So Cap Anson said – he said some horrible things and ultimately was like, I'm not playing if that man's on the field. Yeah.
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And Moses Walker was actually injured and still was like, oh, well, I'm definitely going on the field today anyway.
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Selects: How the Negro Leagues Worked
So he dressed out, and I'm not sure if he actually played in the game, but he was like part of the team. And Cap Anson – was not indulged. Toledo was like, we're not taking our guy out. He's one of our players. So Cap Anson can go suck an egg. And Cap Anson went and sucked an egg. He was really mad.
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Selects: How the Negro Leagues Worked
It's a story that follows an arc a lot like another episode we did on the Harlem Globetrotters, where we have a group of people who were discriminated against, so they went off and formed their own league, their own thing, showed their greatness, and then were eventually co-opted, which left some of the people who'd helped build what they had out in the cold.
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Selects: How the Negro Leagues Worked
But the issue that day, that dispute at Comiskey Field brought to the fore the concept of integration and ultimately segregation among Major League Baseball teams. And it actually increased the pressure among owners and managers to to get rid of the black players, not just in the majors, but in the minors.
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Selects: How the Negro Leagues Worked
So here's the thing. They never officially did that. They had the minor league ban black players.
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And the way into the major leagues was through the minors.
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Selects: How the Negro Leagues Worked
Right, exactly, which paved the way for Branch Rickey to break that unbroken rule without actually breaking a rule. Yes. Yeah. Good point, Chuck. You want to take a break? Yeah, let's do it.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Yeah. Have you ever wondered about the name bazooka?
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Okay. Well, I did. And I was like, what does a bazooka mean? Apparently, there was an entertainer. I think he might have been vaudeville, kind of a country act. Okay. Bazooka Joe? I can't remember his name. It doesn't matter. He created a musical instrument out of brass called a bazooka. And it was kind of like a trumpet and a trombone together. It was a weird little instrument.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
But he was popular enough and the bazooka looked like his instrument enough that it became called the bazooka, this shoulder-mounted rocket launcher. Interesting. I thought so, too. Sure, why not? But the point is, is that all of a sudden, the Germans, who had been totally helpless against the American tank divisions, were messing the American tank divisions up.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
And the source of their power was the Dassler Brothers shoe factory. And you mentioned their seamstresses welding... bazookas together. Also in their factory, there was forced labor of French POWs. Sure.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
So they had slaves and seamstresses working together to create bazookas to take out the American tank divisions or the Allied tank divisions, thanks to the companies that would eventually become Adidas and Puma.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. There's Andrew over there, the guest producer. I'm wearing Adidas. Chuck is wearing Puma. Andrew's wearing Reebok. None of us are speaking to one another right now.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
It was just too interesting to wait to talk about any longer.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
So you can imagine that all the little bickering and snide remarks and just all the stuff that if you have two couples that don't really, really, really like and love each other, living together will accumulate. If you translate that to a business relationship, it's going to be hard on the business. And it was.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
So there is apparently a series of just little things like that. But as far as the family legend goes, the real break happened during World War II when the Allies were bombing the village of Herzog. And Rudy and his wife made their way to the bunker, the bomb shelter. Mm-hmm. And shortly after that, Adi and his wife, I think her name was Kata, they made their way into the bomb shelter.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
And when they entered, he said, oh, it looks like the bastards are here again. And Adi apparently went to his grave saying that he was referring to the Allied bombers. But Rudy took it that Adi was talking about Rudy and his wife. And apparently that was the final straw.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Right. So World War II is still going on. And at some point, Rudy gets called to go fight for the Nazis. He gets drafted.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
So Rudy has to go to war, and the whole time he's away, so this rift has already happened. So he's suspecting, one, that his brother and his brother's wife plotted to get him drafted, and he can't get that idea out of his head, so much so that apparently multiple times he deserted his post to go home to make sure that he wasn't being ousted from the business he'd built with his brother.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
And then he gets arrested for desertion. And he's sure that his little brother ratted him out for desertion. Which he may have. And so he's arrested. He's held for a while. And as he's making his way back after the war to Herzog... he gets picked up by the Allies for under suspicion of being a Gestapo agent. Yeah.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
He's sure again that it's his little brother, Adi, who got him this time landed in a POW camp that he stays in for a little while. And it turns out he was right. There is documentary evidence from an American officer who took the accusation down. And apparently it was Adi who went to the Americans and said, my brother is a Gestapo agent.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
What a jerk. This is the level of stuff these brothers are doing to one another. And the rift just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. There's one other thing we have to say because the wife, the younger wife, the 16-year-old Kata, gets historically blamed for creating this rift, I think, in a lot of ways unfairly. Sure. She's also the one who saved the family business single-handedly.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
This is the place where the Panzerschrecks were made.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Well, they found out that this was the company that made Jesse Owens' famous track shoes.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
So this is all going on or it's all starting while Rudy's off in a POW camp because his brother ratted him out. And the business all of a sudden is starting to turn international. Like you said, people around the world are taking notice of this thanks to the American GIs who are coming back with this Geta sportswear. And when Rudy comes back, it's done. His brothers ratted him out.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
There was the whole thing in the bomb shelter. And the brothers split the company that they built together. They split Gebruder-Dossler, and they go off and found their own companies.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Right. He's like Dwight Schrute's uncle. Who spent a lot of the war in an allied POW camp. That's right.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Well, no, that was a different one. That one, there was a children's footwear line already called Adidas, so he added the I and turned it into Adidas.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
I've been there a couple of times actually when I was a younger man.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Yeah, and it works. Puma's definitely better than Ruda for sure.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
So these two go off and form directly competing companies that split from the same company that the brothers had founded together. And Adidas and Puma started making pretty good headway out of the gate. At first, Rudy had the sales team, had the marketing team, had the ability to move some product.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
But Adi had the technical know-how, the dedication to making high-quality footwear that athletes, like professional athletes, wanted to wear. And so he could get his shoes onto athletes who would wear them on the world stage. And eventually his... I guess his tack won out over his brother's. And from a very early stage on, Adidas has always led Puma, at least as far as, like, sales revenue goes.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
It is, I'm sure. And I was there on my 21st birthday in Jacksonville because it was the only place open. It was like a Tuesday night or something. And I was like, this is not the best 21st birthday I'll ever have. Yeah.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
It was like the miracle on ice on grass. You mean they were stoned? They were all stoned out of their gourds.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
I think it might, too. You need to trademark that. Well, I do officially right now. Trademarked.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Well, plus, yeah, and Reebok, this article says that they lost their way at some point, but the way that Reebok kind of took the lead for a little while was saying, no, we'll get into jogging, we'll get into aerobics, and we'll make this stuff at a time when Adidas and Puma were ignoring it.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
One of the other mistakes that both Adidas and Puma made was that they were so focused on beating one another, they just completely dropped the ball, as it were, on the rise of Nike.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
And Nike was able to take over, and apparently right out of the gate and since then, Nike's always been the leader in sports apparel.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
So you have an option these days. You can buy your sports apparel from a company that's been known to use child labor or a company that used forced French labor under the auspices of the Nazi Party in World War II.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Sure. Sure. Why not, right? That's pretty awesome that you said you don't want to yuck anyone's yum.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Plus, I mean, if you fell in love with somebody from a family across the river, that was sorry. You got a Romeo and Juliet thing going on that ain't going to work out. Isn't that crazy? It is. And I was glad that one of the local historians who was interviewed for one of these articles said – It wasn't like bloody or anything, like no one lost their lives over this.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
It was just, you know, if you worked for Puma, you stayed on the Puma side of the river. If you worked for Adidas, you stayed on the Adidas side of the river. And each group kept to themselves. That was all.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
So this was, like you said, there was a soccer game that was played between Adidas and Puma, kind of a reconciliation thing, on International Peace Day back in, I think, 2009? Yeah. That happened – think about this. The Rudy and Adi Dossler died in the 70s within four years of each other. This was 2009 before the companies finally kind of had this reconciliation game.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
And, yeah, today still it's like you kind of – you'll gently, you know, make fun of somebody wearing Adidas if you're a Puma family or whatever. But while the brothers were alive –
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
You just steered clear of everybody who was on the other side, so much so that Herzog was known as the town of the lowered gaze because if you came upon somebody on the street, you would look at their shoes to see what shoes they were wearing before you decided whether you were going to talk to them or not. Isn't that so funny?
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
It was that established, these brothers' hatred and rivalry of one another. They didn't speak for decades. Spread out into the town that was divided by this river, and the town itself took sides because of this rift between these brothers that all started supposedly in this bomb shelter during World War II.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Could that be right? German the German? Or is it German? The journalist is really lazy. They're just like, he's a German. We're just going to call him that.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Right. Oh, yeah, there is an H right there.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Right, or... I was, it's funny you said that because I was thinking about that later on too. I thought that I should have said, well, actually I'm not yucking your yum. I'm yucking your yuck, which is different. Oh. You know, think about it.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
It is a great story of sibling rivalry and bitterness and hatred.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
So they died. The family sold the business in the 80s, late 80s, and they got bought by like corporate conglomerates. Sure. Ironically, Puma now owns Reebok and Gucci owns Puma. Yeah. Adidas is still just Adidas, but again, it's owned by like a mega conglomerate. And they've just gone enormous and make billions of dollars a year.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
So the families aren't necessarily involved, but one family member still works in the business. His name is Frank Dosler. I believe he was Rudy's grandson. And he used to work at Puma. He was pretty high up in Puma. Now he works as the head of the legal department for Adidas.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
It's a pretty good indication of how much this Cold War has kind of thawed between the two companies quite a bit. Because the people who are running it have no skin in the game. They don't care anymore, you know?
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Right. He's like, let me suck your blood. Yeah.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
No, like your rappers probably dress like a gone-in king. Yeah. Or maybe like the New York Dolls.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
It was pretty unhip. I didn't want to say anything, but I'm glad you did. Street wear. So, you know, play clothes. Yeah. So Run DMC changed everything when they released a single called My Adidas.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
And I saw elsewhere that they released a single My Adidas kind of in retaliation to a song. My Puma. A song called Fell in Shoes. Hmm. So have you ever noticed that Run DMC wore their Adidas without laces with the tongues popped out? Oh, I noticed.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
That was supposedly because that's how people in prison had to wear their shoes because they weren't allowed to have shoelaces, and they were kind of saying, like, we're down with all of our buddies in prison. Interesting. So this song, Fell in Shoes, basically was making fun of that and basically teaching kids not to emulate prisoners.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
And Run DMC took issue with that, and they ended up releasing My Adidas, the song on Raising Hell in 1986. Sorry, Raising Hell. Yes. Which I remember my family was on a bus to Disney World once, I think, and the windows were foggy. And I was so into Run DMC, I just wrote, Raisin Hell in the fog on the window. Dude. People on the bus thought that was really hilarious.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
So I was into My Adidas, too, because of Run DMC, but it wasn't just me. Apparently, if you went to a Run DMC show on the Raisin' Hell Tour or the Together Forever Tour in 1986 or 87, when they sang My Adidas, everybody would take off their shoes and hold their Adidas in the air. Yeah. That's how big of an impact this song had.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
It's a pretty great life we have. Pretty nice. Just soaking in our own urine. Don't you pee in your hyperbaric chamber? Well, yeah, but I mean, that's how you're supposed to fill it up, right? Right. So, Chuck, obviously what we're talking about today is athletic gear, sports shoes in particular, and two of the most well-known sports brands in the entire world, Adidas and Puma.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Yeah, and apparently it made Adidas' sales just go through the roof.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
A vodka sponsor. That's hilarious. Sure.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
No? Oh, yeah, you totally have. Like P. Diddy and Ciroc vodka, I think. Yeah. Look, it works. I associate P. Diddy and Ciroc vodka.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Right. Can you guys hurry up? We will hurry up, Ghost of Jerry. If you want to know anything else about Adidas and Puma, well, just go start reading up more. There's actually a book by a woman named Barbara Smith called Sneaker Wars.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
appropriately um all about the rift between adidas and puma so if you want to know more about it that's a pretty good place to start and since i said that it's time for listener mail yeah i'm gonna call this uh uh sponges okay hey guys i was listening to pando and i was excited y'all mentioned glass sponges which are thought to be the oldest animals on earth
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
That's awesome. It makes me want to go chew on a sponge and see what happens.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Thanks a lot, Kayla. Thanks for the work you're doing, too. Thank you for saving humanity from grave diseases.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
If you want us to look into anything that we put in square quotes, well, we want to know about it. You can go onto our website, stuffyoushouldknow.com. Follow us on our social links there. You can get in touch with us. You can also send us a good old-fashioned email. Wrap it up, spank that thing on the bottom, and send it off to stuffpodcasts at howstuffworks.com.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
And some people might not know this, Chuck, but Adidas and Puma were founded by two brothers who spent many decades of their lives not speaking to one another. And some people might even know that, that they are rival brands founded by rival brothers. But I guarantee they don't know the full story behind one of the most bitter family rivalries of all time that gave us Adidas and Puma.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
And it is extraordinarily fascinating. There's... There's Nazis. There's Run DMC. There's all this stuff all rolled into one. And it turns out that this is one of the better stories I've ever come across.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
You know, Adidas makes non-white shoes you could try.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
The shell toes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, they have some other cool ones, too, like gazelles are pretty cool, like the flat-bottomed soccer shoe.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Oh, yeah, those are cool too. I've got some Stan Smiths that are like this blue mesh. Now that I think about it, if I have a loyalty to either one, it would be Adidas. But I don't consider myself like Adidas loyal.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
I never had tree torrents. It was a look. Oh, I know, for sure. Those are comfy. I was right after tree torrents when I started getting into shoes K-Swiss were in. Oh, yeah.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
The slip-on ones with the black and white checks?
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
You could, but people will laugh at you behind your back. That's already happening.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Yep. So, Chuck. Yes. Let's start the story, shall we? We're going to have to get in the Wayback Machine for this one. Okay. Okay.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
So that was you, though. Let's let everybody know. We're going to go back to the end of World War I in Germany, and we're going to go to a little town that I'm going to let you pronounce because I've been trying and I cannot do it.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
The end of World War I. Yeah. And the beginning of the Spanish flu that killed like three times as many people right after it. Yeah, that's another celebration. Right. So we're going back there. We're just going back 100 days almost to the day.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Well, I could have done at least that good.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
It's not exactly said like that. Here, let's play this. Herzogenaurach. That's how it's said. Okay, so maybe we should just have that voice say it for us, but we're not going to. It turns out the locals just call the town Herzog, so that's all we'll call it. But it's a little tiny village in Bavaria. They can't even pronounce it.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
No, they're like, we're not even going to try, and we were born here. Don't be too hard on yourself, Josh, is what they're saying. So in Herzog, it's a little town in Bavaria, a little village. There's a river running through it.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Yes. And in around 1918, one of the villagers who was born there, a guy named Adolf Dassler, takes a seat in his mother's laundry. His mother ran a laundry out of out of their house and he starts cobbling athletic shoes, specifically track shoes, I think, to begin with. And he had a knack for it. He started making shoes that athletes actually wanted shoes.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
pretty early on, pretty much out of the gate. And he started doing so well so quickly that within a year or two, he asked his older brother, who is by far the more outgoing extrovert salesman-y type of the two brothers, his older brother Rudolph, to start selling his shoes, start kind of creating a business operation out of it.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
And I think within just a few years, they had 12 employees, and they founded a company called Sportsfabric.com. Gebruder Dassler, which they call Geta for short.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
I don't have to tie some sharp rocks to the bottom of my feet?
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Hey friends, it's me, Josh, and for this week's Select, I've chosen our 2018 episode on Adidas versus Puma. It's the German version of the Hatfield versus the McCoys, except with cool sports apparel rather than overalls.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Right, so they start to do a pretty good business. And if you're like, well, it's a weird thing to start doing as a younger man, to start making sports shoes, it turns out that Herzog is like a shoemaking town. It has a long tradition of shoemaking. In 1922, for example, their population was 3,500, but they had 112 shoemakers. That's amazing. Yeah.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
That's a high shoemaker to regular population ratio. So it's not the weirdest thing ever. But they're plodding along. They're making really high-quality shoes. Like right out of the gate, Adi had a real, like I said, a talent for making high-quality athletic shoes.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
And one of the first things they made were a track shoe that one of these articles says looks like a ballet slipper with some nails coming out of the front of it, the front bottom, the foresole. And it was – it just changed everything. It was a genuinely great track shoe.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
At the time, the people who were running, sprinters who were running track, they didn't have any traction when they were taking off.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
This gave them traction and just gave them an immediate – leg up over the competition. And so the athletes like really, really liked the shoes that they were putting out. And the company started to grow and grow and grow. And then I think the 1928 Olympics in Los Angeles is where they really debuted their shoes. And a German sprinter was wearing a pair of their track shoes.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
And all he won was a bronze medal, but he won a bronze medal wearing the Dassler Brothers shoes.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
And one of the things I noticed at the end of this episode is that sometimes when we're just doing our thing, talking back and forth like we do, we'll have some throwaway comment or side conversation or something that takes on much greater significance years on. It's One of the interesting things about talking out loud for 17 years. At any rate, Ciroc Vodka, anyone?
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Yeah. So that was the Olympics that Jesse Owens famously finished in first place, won the gold, and did another lap around the track, went up into the stands and slapped Hitler right in the face.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
So... The fact that Jesse Owens was wearing these shoes immediately brought international attention to Geta, the Gebruder-Dossler company. So I saw one article that said, had World War II not happened, this business would have just gone global immediately. And it started to. Yeah. But then when World War II broke out, and that was the 1936 Olympics. I think I said the 1928 Olympics.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
It was, I think, the 1932 Olympics that I talked about first. But at the 1936 Olympics, within just a couple of years, the Nazis invaded Poland and were running Germany. And World War II kicked off in earnest. And the time for sports apparel kind of got derailed a little bit.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Yeah, their factories were co-opted for the war effort, basically. And what the Dassler Brothers factory ended up making are something called the Panzerschreck, which means the tank terror, basically.
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Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
And it was modeled after the American bazooka, which was one of the first shoulder-mounted, recoilless rocket launchers that had enough power to punch right through a tank and blow up everybody inside. They were nasty little buggers. And the Panzerschreck was the German version of the bazooka. And the German version of the bazooka was created in the Dassler Brothers shoe factory.
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Selects: Night Trap: The Video Game Failure that Changed the Industry
I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast.
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Selects: Night Trap: The Video Game Failure that Changed the Industry
Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives.
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Selects: Night Trap: The Video Game Failure that Changed the Industry
Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. Got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote.
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Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush.
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Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real.
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Selects: Night Trap: The Video Game Failure that Changed the Industry
Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.
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In 2020, a group of young women in a tidy suburb of New York City found themselves in an AI-fuelled nightmare. Someone was posting photos.
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Selects: Night Trap: The Video Game Failure that Changed the Industry
In 2020, a group of young women found themselves in an AI-fuelled nightmare. Someone was posting photos.
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Selects: Night Trap: The Video Game Failure that Changed the Industry
I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast.
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Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports.
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We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real.
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Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.
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Selects: Night Trap: The Video Game Failure that Changed the Industry
In 2020, a group of young women found themselves in an AI-fuelled nightmare. Someone was posting photos.
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Selects: Night Trap: The Video Game Failure that Changed the Industry
I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast.
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Selects: Night Trap: The Video Game Failure that Changed the Industry
Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives.
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Selects: Night Trap: The Video Game Failure that Changed the Industry
Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. Got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Night Trap: The Video Game Failure that Changed the Industry
Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Night Trap: The Video Game Failure that Changed the Industry
Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Night Trap: The Video Game Failure that Changed the Industry
Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.
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In 2020, a group of young women in a tidy suburb of New York City found themselves in an AI-fueled nightmare. Someone was posting photos.
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Oh, yeah. They say that's the best way to prevent getting the flu or spreading the flu is washing your hands a lot. Do it a lot. It's so simple that you almost might discount it, but it's actually true. That's the best way to do it. You can wash the flu virus off of your hands with some soap that will bind to it, and the water will wash it right off. Wash that flu right out of your hair.
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Yeah, and if you have the flu, stay home. Yeah. Everybody but me. Stay home. Well, we're up against it. We had to record today. And also wash your hands just constantly. Like if I'm about to touch anything, I'll wash my hands first. Right. If I'm going to go somewhere outside of the hot zone, which is whatever room I'm sequestered in, you know, I will wash my hands.
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All right, Chuck. Did you breathe? Yeah, a little bit. Let's talk symptoms, okay? You know what I need? I need one of those like reeds that Bugs Bunny used to like hide in the water when Elmer Fudd was hunting him. I could just like get a long one and maybe a crazy straw would be even better and just like pipe it out to the air duct right there. That's a great idea.
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But that fever, that's the big one apparently. It's a big distinction between the two.
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Yeah, and the colds are also caused by viruses. They're caused by coronaviruses, which can, there are types of coronaviruses that are really bad that cause like MERS and SARS. Yeah. But for the most part, when you catch a cold from a coronavirus, it's a low-level virus or it's a rhinovirus. That's the other one that causes the common cold, right?
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So it's just a different kind of virus producing similar symptoms to a flu.
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I think his younger brother was Pennywise the Clown in the It movie, right? Yeah. Oh, I don't know. I'm pretty sure that was a Sarsgaard, and he is amazing. Yeah? Have you seen it? No. Oh, you got to see it. You're going to love it. Now, was he a Sarsgaard or a Skarsgaard? Oh, God.
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No. Who's that? Peter Sarsgard. Yeah, that's another dude. What is up with all these guys? So are you sure you're not just dropping the K off of Peter Skarsgard?
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Yeah, I believe he's the youngest of them. Okay. Oh, I'm sorry. I was wrong. It was Tim Curry I was talking about.
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Yeah, his acting goes way beyond the costume. They did good with the costume, but it was his acting.
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I also want to apologize for any medical students who are being forced to listen to this as part of their class. Hopefully your instructor fast-forwarded through that part.
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Oh, yeah, that's right, because that's from the coronavirus. This is the influenza virus we're talking about that creates this inflammation, which is your immune response, right, in your lungs?
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Yeah, I am a little... Under the weather, I guess, is a good way to put it. I can tell. So those are just standard flu symptoms. You can have secondary symptoms from complications of the flu, right? One thing that has long gone hand-in-hand with...
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the flu as far as like death from flu complications goes is bacterial pneumonia yeah that's no good and um for a very long time science wasn't quite sure why that why you were just so susceptible to bacterial infections when you were battling the flu and they figured it out it's actually your body's immune response that is responsible for it right right so when you have the flu and your body starts to battle it off and you get a fever um
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Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. There's Jerry. This is stuff you should know about the flu, which I have. You don't have the flu, do you? I don't know, man. I can't. I've been on the planet for 41 years. Okay. I still can't really tell the difference between a flu and a cold.
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and your lungs become inflamed, that's your immune system's response to the flu virus. But when your body says, okay, calm down, everybody, let's bring the temperature back down, and your body represses its own immune response, it opens the door for bacteria that normally it would be able to fight off to take advantage of this kind of naturally weakened state that your immune system is in.
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And you're much more susceptible to infections from bacteria. And that's where pneumonia comes from. You can get viral pneumonia, but you usually get bacterial pneumonia. And that's the stuff that people can die from because that bacteria infects your air sacs in your lungs, which fill with fluid and pus and blood. And you die from choking on bloody froth that fills up your airway.
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Why would you be dehydrated from the flu? It's from sweating?
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Your nose running? Yeah. You're just leaking fluids. Yeah, you are. And, like, they start to add up, and all of a sudden you're dehydrated before you even knew it.
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Well, the reason diabetes is comorbid with the flu or is problematic when you have the flu is because type 1 diabetes especially is an autoimmune disease. So your immune system is already... Repressed, I guess. Yeah. And then heart conditions can be exacerbated by it because you're getting less oxygen from your lungs into your bloodstream, which strains the heart.
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And if it's already weak, people have heart attacks from the flu if they already have a heart condition. Isn't that crazy?
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Yeah. Or she had like a stomach blockage. They initially diagnosed it as the flu.
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But people do, so your point still remains correct.
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No. Because they are dirty, dirty, dirty creatures.
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And if you go even further back, there's an even earlier origin before kids picking it up at daycare or preschool for the flu. Usually it comes from other animals we're finding, right?
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Very frequently birds, like we were saying, right? And they used to think that for a human to catch a flu from a bird especially – that flu had to show up in a mixing vessel, usually a pig, which was capable of taking it. It could be infected by a bird flu and a human flu. And flu viruses have this amazing talent called reassortment.
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where a flu strain and another flu strain can get together and be like, oh, hey, you have eight proteins that make up your RNA? I do too. Let's mix and match and see what happens. And they thought for a long time that this really only took place in pigs, and then out would come a new super virus that no one had ever seen before that humans could catch. But
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From Southeast Asia, people being in close contact with infected birds, especially like in the poultry industry or something, there have been cases that started in the 90s of avian flu coming directly from birds to humans. So that theory went out the window. And that's what set off those fears of a bird flu pandemic that we lived with for many years.
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Yeah, and it scared people because those bird flus are no joke. Like they have like a 60% mortality rate. 60%, 6 out of 10 people who come down with H5N1 bird flu die, right?
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Luckily, it's really, really difficult to catch it even when you are around sick birds. It doesn't very frequently make the jump to humans, but it can is what they found. Yeah.
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Yeah, I've had, no, I've definitely had like lots of aches and I woke up like shivering one night. Oh, so you had a fever for sure. I guess so. I guess it must have just been one night in the middle of the night. So that's the flu, right? Probably. So I guess I do have the flu. No joke, everybody.
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Yeah. And if you're like having an anxious day at work and you're doing your normal thing of chewing on your stapler to relieve anxiety and the guy who borrowed it was sick, you're toast.
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Right, and they say that even after you feel better, you should stay in bed an extra day because, again, your immune system is compromised and you can catch other stuff. So you want to be careful. That extra day really pays off.
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Season two, a lot of pressure. Well, yeah, that's how it happens. The sophomore season is very frequently like everyone's aware of the success of the show and what people are saying about it, and they try to adapt to the expectations rather than continuing on doing what they were doing before. But good for you guys, Stranger Things.
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Yeah, I think that I've had it long enough now based on the research from this article that I'm not contagious or else I would have called this off. So did you get it in New York, I wonder? I think so. Yeah. Dirty, dirty New Yorkers.
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All right, Chuck. So we were talking about how seasonal flu has seasons. That's why it's called seasonal flu, right? That's, I guess, one classification of flus. There's also a pandemic flu. And the same kind of flu virus can be a pandemic flu or a seasonal flu.
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And I think usually the way it happens is a new virus will emerge from, say, like livestock or poultry or something like that and infect humans. And if it's totally novel, where no human has ever encountered a flu of this type before, it can just lay waste to people. It can kill a lot of people. It can infect a lot of people. It can spread the world.
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And when that happens, it becomes classified as a pandemic flu. After a couple of rounds around the world, people will have started to develop an immunity to it, but it'll still be passed around. And so for the decade or so, it can be the predominant strain of the flu, but it'll have changed over to a seasonal type of flu.
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So it's almost like the pandemic versus seasonal type flu describes how contagious it is and how virulent it is. I think that's the big distinction. Right.
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Which I was like, I was just walking around like with my hands inside of a couple of like plastic Duane Reade bags. And it still didn't work. Well, that was your problem probably right there. Right. Duane Reade. Because I didn't take them off when I ate. Gross. Yeah. So, yes, we were in New York for some Bell House shows, right? Those went pretty well. Yeah. Yeah. Thought they were great.
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And it killed most of those people actually in four months from September to December. Isn't that crazy?
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I saw in many reputable places 50 million people died around the world. Man, that is just staggering. Yeah, and it was like right at the end of World War I. And just came out of nowhere. And one of the other really noteworthy things about it that just baffled people was it was killing like healthy people under the age of like 22, 23, 24. Like just healthy young people killed by the flu.
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A lot of them died from pneumonia. And they finally figured out that it was because... It had been about 20-something years since a flu resembling that type of strain had made the rounds. So people under, say, like age 25 had never been exposed to it. So it was a novel flu which just leveled the people it was exposed to who had never encountered something like it before.
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Yeah, that can totally happen. It's a real concern.
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Nursing home is not just people who work there, but the residents too are in a really vulnerable position. Because they are in the elderly age range. Their immune systems are pretty compromised. If they're in a nursing home, they're probably ill already. And then they're living in close quarters with other people who are ill. That's a recipe for disaster.
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All right. So the flu. We won't reminisce about past victories. We'll just talk about the flu instead.
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Oh, I do remember that, actually. Yeah. Yeah, that's just really unnerving, the idea of maybe it's permanent.
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Flu stop. Well, antiviral drugs, they seem like a good idea, but they seem like a good idea under the premise that seasonal flu strains, they used to think that they died out at the end of a season, right?
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Well, they started tracking them. Like our global monitoring system is really top-notch, and they can track flu around the world, and they found that seasonal flu at the end of the season in North America, it just goes to South America.
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So since that's the case, when you use antivirals and you're exposing these flus that go on to survive, you're also training them, evolutionarily speaking, to adapt so that those antiviral drugs are useless against them for people who like really need them.
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So just like with antibiotics, using antivirals just to cure a common flu or to shorten a common flu is probably a bad idea when you're talking about the whole population.
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Yeah. Yeah, there's one keeps them, well, two, a pair of them keep them from replicating, and then another one traps them inside a cell once they enter. Right. It's like, oh, God, I can't get out. The door is locked, and then... And they're all prescription drugs. Right. If I'm not mistaken. So vaccines are like pretty hot.
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They're like the hot thing to do on a Friday night is to go get a flu vaccine, right?
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And also, sorry, everybody, for the sniffling that's going to inevitably happen. I'm trying hard not to do it. You're a method podcaster.
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Yeah, and they say, like, especially if you have a baby under six months of age, they can't be vaccinated. And so everyone around them should be vaccinated is the recommendation from the CDC.
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Do you get them now, though? Is it a habit of yours now?
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Right, and when you have kids, if you get them vaccinated, once they're able to be vaccinated, again, under six months, they say, no, no, no, don't do that. When they're young, though, and you're getting them vaccinated, they need to be vaccinated twice, like a month apart. Yes.
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And so with flu vaccines in general, they recommend that you get it as early in the season as possible because it takes about two weeks for that to take effect. So with a kid, then, I guess you would want to get them So six weeks before the flu season? I don't know. Or is that second one pretty much like, okay, now it's taking effect?
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And so for a while there, there were two kinds of flu shots that the CDC recommended. One was an actual shot. The flu vaccine that was in a shot form.
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And then there was another one that's called live attenuated influenza virus, which came in the form of a nasal spray. And that was usually recommended for kids. I don't know if it's because kids don't like needles or what. But the CDC has officially stopped recommending nasal flu vaccines. Okay. Yeah. Don't do those anymore.
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Right, because if they get all three wrong, well, then you're toast when you encounter the flu that's going around that season. Yeah, it's really interesting. But even when they do get it right, it's kind of baffling that sometimes the flu vaccine just doesn't bestow any kind of immunity.
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Apparently, Australia just came out of a really bad epidemic flu season down there. And it didn't cause a lot of deaths, but everybody was sick with the flu. It was an H3 type flu that went around. And even though that strain showed up in the vaccine that was given out, only like 15% of people who got vaccinated and were exposed to the flu were immune to it.
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Like 85% of people who got flu vaccines and then encountered the flu still got sick. That's a pretty bad track record for a flu vaccine, and they're just not sure why. One of the theories is so when they make flu vaccines, they grow them in egg protein typically, like hen's eggs. Uh-huh. That's the medium they use to actually grow the viruses that they then kill.
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One researcher pointed out that at least one kind of flu virus mutates in the presence of egg protein so that the virus that you put in to grow in there is different from the one that comes out. It's a mutated version. And so maybe that would prevent your body from recognizing the original one that you were trying to introduce it to in the vaccine. So interesting. It is pretty interesting.
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Yeah, there's like a couple of other ways that they make flu shots, flu vaccines, but that chicken egg is the most predominant way to do it.
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Right. And if you're an anti-vaxxer, then you probably already decided that flu shots aren't for you. Correct. Which we will never do an episode on that. On vaccinations? Right. Oh, you don't think so? I don't know, man.
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So the idea that a flu vaccine can, you know, check all the boxes but still just be wrong, wrong, wrong or not confer immunity has some people looking for a universal vaccine or one that lasts way longer than just a year. What they're targeting is so when you get a normal vaccine, that vaccine is based on that HA protein, the hemagglutin.
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And that's the most quickly evolving part of any flu virus, right? So they're saying, well, let's look at other parts of the flu virus that don't evolve nearly as quickly and target that. And some of those parts are even basically universal among all flu viruses.
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And normally when you get the flu, it's just you're laid up for a couple of days, right? Yeah. Like you said, you feel like dog dew or something like that. Yeah. That's the seasonal flu. But even with a seasonal flu, which usually here in the United States or in North America runs from, what, like October to March? Yeah, roughly. Okay.
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So if you can find, if you can create a vaccine based on a stable part of a flu virus that's a part of every flu virus, one vaccine could confer ideally lifelong immunity from all influenza for anybody who takes the vaccine.
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Oh, that's nice. What's that from? Is that an Atlanta Rhythm Section song? No, they're better than that. Oh, okay. Well, since I said Atlanta Rhythm Section, everybody, that means it's time for Listener Mail. Listener Mail.
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No, and also I want to say thank you to everybody who wrote in to just say congratulations or to thank us. That was all, every single one of those emails or tweets or posts were all well received. So thanks for those guys.
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Yes, sir. After 27 years of dedicated work. I know, man. Not cool, guys. So, that is Rich, our man on Cape Cod. Well, thanks a lot, Rich. Appreciate that. That was one of the better emails I've heard in a while. Agreed. If you want to try and top Rich, let's see what you got. Send us an email, stuffpodcasts at howstuffworks.com, and join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.
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And then, I didn't really think about this before, but in the southern hemisphere, it runs the opposite and actually peaks in August. Right. Yeah. Most of the time, it's just an inconvenience for you. But it actually kills people sometimes. Yeah, it can be dangerous for sure. So in 2011 and 12, that was a pretty low year for deaths from the flu in the U.S.
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There were 12,000 people who died from the flu or complications from the flu. 2012-13 flu season, 56,000 people died. That year. And I think the average is something around 36,000 people in the U.S. die from the flu every year.
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It is. So, I mean, and the idea of dying from the flu, that's awful because, I mean, if you feel bad enough as it is from a flu that you recover from in a few days, imagine dying from that. That would just be a terrible way to die. Yeah. And the whole thing, Chuck, comes down to this little tiny virus, the influenza virus, and there's different types.
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And influenza, I found, is actually a shout-out to the Italian name for it originally. Did you know this? I did not. So I'm going to say it normally, but then you have to say it in your famous Italian accent. Influenza di freddo. Are you talking about the influenza di freddo? Yeah, which means influenza of the cold. Oh, all right.
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A lot of – for many, many, many, many years because the flu is most predominant in the colder months, everybody just assumed that it was the actual cold that was getting you sick. Right. That turns out not to be true. It's an actual – it's a virus that does seem to favor the cold, drier conditions of the winter months. Right.
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But this little tiny virus gets into your body and it starts this chain reaction that is just fascinating.
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Right. And let's talk first before we talk about the actual effect of the flu. Let's talk about the virus a little bit for a second, okay? Okay. So back in 1931, there was this Iowa farm physician, which is to say he was a human physician of humans, but he probably lived on a farm because it was Iowa in 1931.
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His name was Richard Shope, and he was trying to figure out what this bug that was getting people was. And he investigated with pigs first because there are plenty of other animals that can come down with the flu, not just humans, right? Right. And he finally isolated it. He isolated the flu virus in swine, and it led to this discovery of the isolation of the flu virus in humans too.
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So right after that, they started classifying the flu by strains. You got A, B, and C, right?
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Poor C. Yeah, it'll make a comeback one day, and it'll shock the heck out of all of us, right? Probably so. So type A infects all sorts of different species, right? Humans, birds of all kinds, pigs, bats, horses even.
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B strain is almost exclusively infective of humans. Apparently, the only other species we've ever found a type B influenza virus in is seals. God knows where they got it from. Or if we got it from seals, who knows? Maybe up north? I don't know. And then that sea one, it just infects humans and pigs. So you got the three types. That's right.
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And then one other thing about them, about the classification of flu strains is that there are also subtypes, right? And so you mentioned like avian flu. And the one that scared everybody was I think H5N1. Yeah, that was it. I remember. So the H and the N are the, they refer to the two kinds of, the two main proteins that you find on the outside of a flu virus. hemagglutinin and neuraminase. Okay?
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And so depending on those types of H protein or M protein, that's how they subtype flu strains.
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Yeah, you can be like, oh, well, they're talking about hemagglutinin and neuraminidase. And they'll say, shut up, nerd. I hope you get sick.
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The one I think we really went in depth on was HIV where we talked about how a virus enters the body and takes over. It's just vicious. It is, but it's also kind of like admirable in a really deadly efficient way, you know?
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Right. And when it does that, the cell has been officially hijacked. And the virus uses the cell's own RNA transcription process to— create the proteins that are needed to make new versions of the virus. So the virus is using this host cell in your respiratory tract to make copies of itself. And suddenly, before the cell knows what's going on, it's made millions of copies of these viruses, right?
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And apparently, when you talk about it step by step, it seems like this takes a little while. Right. No. In seconds. Right. Seconds after that the virus has entered your respiratory cell, millions of copies of it have been made.
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Right. So if you think about it, if that first cell produces millions of viruses, viral copies, and then they're released from the cell out into the rest of the other respiratory cells, and each of those infects another cell, and then those cells all make millions, you see how quickly these viruses reproduce in your body.
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And once that starts to happen, you are infectious. I think once that first cell ruptures, you become infectious. But this can be like a day before symptoms, right? So this is something people are always saying, like, oh, I'm not infectious anymore. Like me.
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said it earlier too right i know but supposedly the day before you you even know you're sick the day before the first symptoms start before you start like sniffling a little bit or whatever you're infectious buddy yeah and you're infectious up to seven days after that day you first start showing symptoms with the flu and if you're a kid you can be infectious even longer because if kids are anything they're walking germ factories they are disgusting monsters it's hilarious
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All right, we're back. So the scavenger hunt's still on, Chuck. Correct. And they make it, the cops follow from the note that Brian Wells had to the next clue, and they found the next note, and that directed them to another place even further out of town to where they found the jar where the note was supposed to be, but the note was gone.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Collar Bomb Heist
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant and Jerry's over there. And this is Stuff You Should Know, the true crime edition again. Yeah, we've done a few of these, right? True crime is so hot right now.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Collar Bomb Heist
Yeah, it really was. It was like it's one of the things that makes this just an incredibly bizarre crime.
Stuff You Should Know
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Why the scavenger hunt? It's going to keep coming up again and again, right?
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So when the scavenger hunt ran out, the trail actually went cold. The case started to get cold for a few months. The cops sniffed around. Brian Wells tried to figure out, you know, why him, what happened with him, and they went back to his place of employment. And they kind of checked out the kind of person he was, right?
Stuff You Should Know
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Right. But nothing came of it. And the cops, as far as I know, never went and met with Bill Rothstein, even though his house was right next to the delivery place where Wells was supposedly accosted, right?
Stuff You Should Know
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And then, like I said, the case has gone cold by this time. If a couple months have gone by, the whole – I mean, you've got this crime, this very public caper that's captured the public's attention. A guy died by being blown up while under police supervision. And there's no leads. There's no nothing.
Stuff You Should Know
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And then finally, several weeks, a few months, I think, after the call, there's a 911 call from Bill Rothstein. And he tells the police that in his freezer, he has one of those serial killer chest freezers, there's actually a body, a man's body.
Stuff You Should Know
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And that it was – it is not someone he murdered, but he helped cover up the murder of this man who was the boyfriend of Bill Rothstein's ex-girlfriend from way, way back in the day. And now the chain of events has been set off.
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That is right. I'm glad somebody finally said it.
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The cleanup, getting rid of the murder weapon, and then holding on to the body.
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And he said, he told the cops that the reason he called them finally was because since he wasn't going through with grinding up the body, he was worried what this woman, Marjorie Deal Armstrong, was going to do to him.
Stuff You Should Know
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And so when he says Marjorie Deal Armstrong to the Erie cops, just alarm bells start going off because by this time already, Marjorie Deal Armstrong was a local legend as far as criminals are concerned. She was this very, very bright woman who I think at the age of 35, back in the 80s, had been indicted for killing one of her boyfriends, shot him six times.
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She pled that she had killed him in self-defense, that he was an abuser of her, and she was actually acquitted. A few years after that, she was married to a guy named Armstrong, and he showed up at the hospital with a head trauma and actually died of a cerebral hemorrhage. But there was no coroner's inquest or anything like that.
Stuff You Should Know
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And so it just was something suspicious, you know, the second significant other of this woman to die under suspicious or violent circumstances. So when Bill Rothstein said, I'm worried about what Marjorie D. Armstrong is going to do to me, the cops seemed to have taken it very seriously.
Stuff You Should Know
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Yeah, because true crime can be extraordinarily interesting, especially when you're talking about an extraordinarily overcomplicated heist that results in a man's bizarre death, death by bizarre means, and involves what really ultimately you could make a case is an unsolved mystery still today, even though it's technically bureaucratically been solved.
Stuff You Should Know
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Right, and so you said that he had considered killing himself and even wrote a suicide note, right? Yeah. There's something very, very odd on Bill Rothstein's suicide note. And again, he didn't kill himself. He died of cancer, but he was able to actually show the cops where his suicide note was, and they read it.
Stuff You Should Know
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And the first line of it, from what I understand, was, this has nothing to do with the collar bomb heist or the Brian Wells murder.
Stuff You Should Know
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Right. They said, we just want to make sure your fire alarm is working. Yeah, exactly. Part of a community service. Cool, but the bed's fine. So that is a very weird thing to say, and that definitely piqued the interest of the cops. But like you said, the cops convicted or the state convicted Marjorie Deal Armstrong of the murder of James Roden or Jim Roden, right? Yeah.
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She's already in prison, and when she's in prison – Somehow, this is what I'm unclear on, somehow it comes up or she starts talking or something like that, that Jim Roden's death very much had to do with the Wells case, with Brian Wells' murder, this collar bomb heist, and that she knows a lot about it. And if they'll transfer her to a minimum security prison close to Erie, she'll start talking.
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So is that how it came up, like she approached them? Because I'm unclear on that.
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Right. So there's a couple of things going on here by then. By the time she calls the cops, the cops have already spoken apparently with several informants that have shared cells with her or spent time with her in jail already who are saying, like, this lady is the mastermind of that collar bomb heist that's making you guys look bad.
Stuff You Should Know
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Right. But for Deal Armstrong, she said, but I had nothing to do with it. Even though I had all these other little things to do with it, I never met Brian Wells. I didn't know Brian Wells. I had nothing to do with his death, aside from supplying the kitchen timers. And knowing all about it. Right, exactly. So now it's just getting weird, right?
Stuff You Should Know
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Because there's the Jim Roden murder, who she says that she killed because he was abusing her, who Rothstein said she killed over a dispute with money, but now she's saying is tied to the Wells case, which she knows... A lot about, but really nothing about and had nothing to do with. So the cops are like, well, let's just get this lady to talk all we can.
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And one of the things they got out of her was she agreed to a tour around Erie showing them all these places where she had been. And these were all places that were related to the crime. Like, I believe she said she'd been at the pizza delivery site. I think she said she'd been within a mile of the bank when it was robbed.
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A lot of people say, no, this thing hasn't been solved yet.
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Like all of this stuff, she's just like, they just keep giving her this rope and she's just wrapping it around her neck again and again and again. And then finally, Chuck, at the end of this car ride, after she's been interviewing with the cops multiple times, giving them tons of info, what does she say?
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Right, and Barnes' brother-in-law was who turned him into the cops.
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So Barnes is like, I'm in jail for selling crack. That's way different from being, you know, very much involved in this collar bomb heist. So he said, OK, I'll tell you guys everything you want to know. I'll be your star witness. Just reduce my sentence for my involvement in this. And he started talking.
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When he started talking, it was at Marjorie Deal Armstrong's trial, which was a pretty spectacular trial from all accounts.
Stuff You Should Know
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Okay, Chuck. So before Marjorie Deal Armstrong goes to trial, and remember, she's already in prison for the murder of Jim Roden, right? Shooting him in the back with a 12-gauge shotgun. Yes. Bill Rothstein is dead. I want to call him Ace Rothstein so bad. But Bill Rothstein is dead. He died of lymphoma a couple of years before.
Stuff You Should Know
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And by the time Marjorie D. Armstrong is brought to trial for her involvement as the mastermind of the collar bomb plot... They have to verify that she's actually mentally competent to stay in trial. And that's kind of touchy because remember when she was charged with killing her boyfriend back in, I think, 1984 or 1986? Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Collar Bomb Heist
Right. A little crooked. Yep. So the whole thing does start actually with a pizza guy, a pizza place and a teal Geo Metro. And like you said, the whole thing starts in 2003 in Erie, Pennsylvania. And there was a and still is. I looked it up. There's a pizza place called Mama Mia's Pizzeria. Little on the nose, but fine. Sure. It gets the job done, right?
Stuff You Should Know
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She was deemed incompetent seven times by psychiatrists before the judge finally said, I'm throwing all that out and deciding that she is competent. We're going to go ahead with the trial. Yes. They also found like 400 pounds of butter and 700 pounds of cheese in her house when they were investigating that particular murder.
Stuff You Should Know
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And in between 1984 and the time she was tried in the collar bomb heist, she had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. So it was actually kind of questionable whether she was mentally competent to stand trial. And right as they were about to start the proceedings, I think the judge ruled that she was competent to stand trial, she was diagnosed with cancer herself.
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So they waited for the cancer diagnosis, her prognosis. And the cancer doctor came back and said, three to seven years. And the prosecutor said, giddy up.
Stuff You Should Know
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Yeah, you're absolutely right. As a very important thing that that showed up in this indictment.
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Right, and so Brian Wells' family did not like this at all. Apparently during the press conference where the DA of Erie County is announcing this, you know, this case is closed, this is the indictment that they have, some of Brian Wells' sisters were shouting liar at her. They did not take the idea that their brother was an accomplice in this at all very well.
Stuff You Should Know
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Yeah, I mean, there was a lot of back and forth about
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So Marjorie Deal Armstrong's lawyer said, you know, to heck with caution. Let's put you on the stand, okay? You've already incriminated yourself multiple times. Why not do it in open court too? And she apparently was quite a – she put on quite a performance on the stand over like two days, I think five and a half hours of testimony.
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She yelled, she cried, she berated the prosecutor and her own lawyer. When she did mention Brian Wells, she said, I've never met the guy. I learned of his death when everybody else did on the TV news. And she stuck with her story, though, that She had nothing to do with this. She knew a little bit about it. She knew the conspirators. The real mastermind was Bill Rothstein, and it wasn't her.
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That's what she maintained, though, throughout the trial and even afterward.
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And at about 2 p.m. on August 28, 2003, a pizza delivery guy named Brian Wells—I think he was 46 at the time— He was about to end his morning shift when a call came in for two small sausage and pepperoni pizzas. And the delivery was, I guess, the opposite way of where Brian Wells was going to go on his way home. But he said, you know what, I'll take this one last order.
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So imagine this, Chuck. Imagine being Brian Wells, and you're agreeing to put on what you are presuming is a fake device,
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collar bomb to go carry out a real bank robbery because you need money because you're indebted to crack dealers because you borrowed from crack from them to give to your girlfriend who's a prostitute who you have to give crack to to be with and then you find out on the day of that this is a real bomb and they're putting it on you whether you like it or not
Stuff You Should Know
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What a horrible turn of events for this poor guy. Yeah. I mean, it's just so sad no matter how you slice it. And then if you take his family's opinion that he was 100% innocent, that he really was delivering pizzas and was accosted and had nothing to do with any of this. which I take with a pretty big grain of salt. I mean, that's just as bad. But it's bad either way.
Stuff You Should Know
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Whether he was an accomplice at one point or not, it's super sad. There's a very sad thread that's running through this story in the form of Brian Wells, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
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Right. Basically, he and Marjorie Deal Armstrong are fishing, right? Yeah. They're fishing buddies. He's somebody that she would turn to. And she's finding out that her father is blowing through her inheritance. And she wants to put a stop to it. And so she approaches Barnes to get him to kill her father. But to get that $250,000... that he says he will kill her father for.
Stuff You Should Know
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She's got to rob a bank. So she turns to her friend Bill Rothstein to come up with this collar bomb to put it on this other person, Brian Wells, who's going to carry this out. And oh, by the way, we're also going to come up with a scavenger hunt to either throw the cops off or to actually make Brian Wells feel more comfortable, give him some sort of cover in case he is caught.
Stuff You Should Know
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And that's what we're going to go with. Go team. And Marjorie D. Armstrong said, that's preposterous, that wasn't me. Kenneth Barnes said, that's exactly what happened. And then Bill Rothstein wasn't alive to contradict any of it.
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So she's sentenced, right? She's convicted as the mastermind of this plot.
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That's a big one, I'll bet. I'll bet that carries a hefty sentence with it.
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No, they gave her three to seven years and she lasted seven.
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Yeah, Jim Fisher's gone a little bit down the rabbit hole, if you ask me.
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Yeah, and so there's probably not many people who are familiar with the case who would say that it wasn't Rothstein who built the bomb. But what Jim Fisher's saying is like Bill Rothstein was behind everything. And Marjorie Deal Armstrong murdering Jim Roden was just like a gift that dropped in Bill Rothstein's lap that he could use to make all these puppets dance, including the cops.
Stuff You Should Know
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And that the whole point of it was to create this elaborate scheme, this elaborate crime that would puzzle people for years and years to come, which it's doing that. And that that was the point. And that Brian Wells was going to die one way or another, right?
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Because I think the FBI said they concluded the whole scavenger hunt was a hoax and that Brian Wells was never going to survive this, didn't they?
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So this is Jim Fisher's position. But like you said, now that everybody's dead, really the only question is, you know, just how complicit was Brian Wells is the last big question. That's right. And then there's one other guy who seems to have got off scot-free named Floyd Stockton. Did you look into him? A little bit. So he's a guy who was there. He was there.
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And he walked out the door at about two. And the next time that Brian Wells was seen in public again, he was entering a PNC bank branch just down the street from his pizza place a few miles up the road. And he looked a lot different than he did when he left the pizza parlor about 28 minutes earlier.
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He supposedly handed Rothstein the bomb to put around Brian Wells' neck. He was staying with Rothstein as a buddy on his couch, fleeing a rape charge in Washington. And somehow, for some reason, he got immunity. and was not indicted even though he was very much involved in this, and he got off scot-free.
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And Brian Wells' family is going nuts over the fact that this guy's out there walking free, that he was a part of this caper, and he didn't see a second inside of a jail. Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if there were more people involved even. So what do you think? Do you think Brian Wells was complicit? And if so, how much?
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Do you think Marjorie Deal Armstrong was the mastermind? I don't know. I don't know either. Maybe we'll never know. But we might. But probably not. You got anything else? I got nothing else. All right.
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Selects: The Collar Bomb Heist
Well, if you want to know more about the collar bomb case, you can type that word in the search bar, your favorite search engine, and it will likely bring up a very great article on Wired from Rich Shapiro. Read that. Start there. It's great. And since I said Rich Shapiro, it's time for Listener Mail.
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Okay, so everybody just look up Jake Sconier's Boston History Podcast, and he'll probably bring it up, right? Yeah, probably so. Thanks a lot, Jake. Thanks for keeping up the good fight up there. That's pretty cool. Good story, too. If you want to get in touch with us like Jake did, tell us about your podcast, that's great. You can send us all an email to stuffpodcast at howstuffworks.com.
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And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.
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Kind of, but in the teller at the bank's defense, could have been an artificial torso and she probably didn't want to draw attention to it.
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Right. So one thing I want to point out, too, there's already a discrepancy. What we're like a minute into the story and there's already a discrepancy. That shirt he was wearing over that boxy thing underneath his shirt said Guess on it. And I've seen that it was written somehow like in spray paint or marker or that it was an actual Guess Jeans T-shirt.
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Yeah, and if you look, the pictures don't really show one way or another. Yeah, I couldn't tell. It looks more like it's homemade, and I looked up to see if there was a guest shirt that, you know, if I could find the actual guest shirt it was and couldn't. So I think it may have been homemade. Okay.
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Regardless, he's wearing this shirt that says guest on, and he walks up to the teller, and he hands the teller a note. And the note says, I have a bomb. Get everybody who has access codes to the safe together and put $250,000 into a bag and bring it to me. I think he said you have 15 minutes to do this.
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It is. It's like almost like luxurious amount of time. I would have said like 60 seconds. Yeah, or this should have happened yesterday. Chop, chop. Right. So he stands back and waits, apparently grabs a dum-dum lollipop out of the little basket while he's waiting. Because why not? And the teller says, sir, we can't get into the safe. That's just not how things work. I'm sorry.
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But as a consolation prize, I'm going to put $8,702 into a bag for you right here and send you on your way, okay?
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Selects: The Collar Bomb Heist
So he walks out of the bank, a free man. And the next time that he's seen in public is about 15 minutes later. And he's seen in public by some Pennsylvania state troopers who are on the lookout for this guy. And he's still wearing that shirt. He's still got the big bulge. And he's standing around his Geo Metro parked in a parking lot that is actually shared with that PNC bank and a McDonald's.
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And he's in a parking lot right there. So basically he left the bank robbery and went about 100 to 200 feet away from it. And that's where he was found like a full 15 minutes later.
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Selects: The Collar Bomb Heist
Yeah, it was. And it was pretty quick. And then three minutes after the bomb goes off, the bomb squad showed up. So they—so he's dead. This guy, Brian Wells, is dead. And the whole time he was protesting, he's like, you know, this is—I was forced to rob the bank. Are you guys going to get this off of me or what? Yeah, he said something like, did you call my boss?
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Because apparently he was a very loyal— He'd been working at Mamma Mia's for how long? Like 10 years or something like that? I don't know. For years and years. And he'd only called in late once. Not even sick. Late once when his cat died, said Rich Shapiro in that Wired article. So...
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It seemed like he actually was telling the truth, that he had been abducted and forced to rob the bank and then had been a victim. I think the bomb going off really kind of put an exclamation point on his story that he was not a willing participant in this, right?
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Yeah, which was, I guess, the thing that started beeping faster and faster.
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Sure, but I mean, like, that's pretty smart. So there's decoy wires. There were apparently also stickers that said, like, don't do it or, you know, skull and crossbones or rat poison, whatever. Skinny and sweet. Yeah. Oh, that's a good 9 to 5 reference, man. I just saw that the other night. So it was a homemade bomb, but it was by all accounts a well-made bomb too.
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And it worked, which I think is one of the big questions about any homemade bomb is whether it will actually work or not. And this one worked with deadly effect.
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Selects: The Collar Bomb Heist
Yeah, the last one will give you the keys and the combination. But you better hurry because you have a limited amount of time. If you stop and think, you're going to waste time and you're going to die. We can detonate this remotely and we're going to be following you. It was written pretty crazily. Have you read any of the note? Oh, yeah. Yeah, so, like, it's got a lot of...
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Selects: The Collar Bomb Heist
Like, just, like, a lot of jump cuts or jump scares in it, you know? Like, it's like, go do this and then go do that after that. And then don't try anything funny or we're going to blow you up, you know? It has those every once in a while. And there's drawings in there of where he could find, like, the notes and all that. So he made it as far as the first note, which was McDonald's. It was...
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In that McDonald's that shared a parking lot with the PNC Bank, that was where the first note was. So he made it to that McDonald's, grabbed that note, and that note was directing him out of town to another note. And he didn't make it that far when the cops caught up with him.
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They were like, whoa, you just blew my mind. That's some great policing.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Yeah, I get the impression that had the captain, his name was Captain Charles de Guillebon, had he made the decision to just go ahead and let the cargo be ruined and have the fire put out with fire hoses, this all might never have happened. I mean, I understand where he was coming from.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
He didn't want to ruin the cargo if he didn't have to because steaming out a fire aboard a ship was an accepted firefighting technique. It works, and it could conceivably save a lot of the cargo. So it's not like he just made this ridiculous, stupid mistake. It's just in hindsight, it was probably the decision that led to this catastrophe. Yeah.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Right. And plus also at the time, Texas City had a volunteer fire department, which I would guess wouldn't have quite as much jurisdiction and could be told by a captain like, no, no, no, just go away. Like, I'm going to handle this myself rather than being like, no, we're going to put the fire out on your ship. Right.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Industrial disaster is what they call these.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
That's crazy. Just that alone would have been spectacular, and I'm sure it was. But when those hatches blew off, all the smoke that had been kind of stuck in the hole inside the ship started billowing out. And the thing apparently about ammonium nitrate burning is it produces really kind of mesmerizing colored smoke. From one of the witnesses, it was apparently salmon, orange, and purple. Oh, wow.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
And so the smoke coming out of it, um, started to attract people like, like onlookers who were like, what's, what's going on? I want to go see this giant weird fire that's going on down at the port. And something like 300 people, including entire families, kids from the local school came over, um,
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
In fact, from what I saw, what we're going to talk about today, the main thing we're talking about today is the largest industrial disaster in United States history still.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
All sorts of people just kind of stopped what they were doing and came to watch this weird fire at the port. And apparently KGBC out of Galveston, which is just 10 miles down the coast out in the Gulf of Mexico, they were warning people to stay away. But apparently that just alerted more people that there was something going on who went down to go check it out themselves.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Yeah. And this is, again, in the southernmost part of Texas, right?
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
So, yeah, the enormous amount of energy that I was talking about that was released by this 2,300 tons of ammonium nitrate. In retrospect, I think it's been – I saw it compared to a 2.7 kiloton blast. Yeah. Which would put this blast of this ship blowing up at somewhere on the order of about one-third – no, I'm sorry, one-fifth of the Hiroshima nuclear bomb. Wow.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
which just completely leveled that city. This was about a fifth that size. So it was still a really substantial, enormous blast. And one of the first effects it had is that it blew this Liberty ship, this huge World War II-era cargo ship— a couple thousand feet into the air in multiple pieces to just shower out downward as hot metal shrapnel onto the surrounding city.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
And that's not accounting for the shrapnel that immediately blew outward as those gases expand, expanded right into all of those onlookers and the people who are fighting the fire around the port.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Yeah, I saw that one of the warehouses, Warehouse Zero at the port, which was, I think, the one that was closest to the ship. This historian from Houston, I think, said that it just disappeared, like it was just gone, like it wasn't there any longer.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Yeah, everything about this was really big, but in basically all the wrong ways. Right. We're going to talk today about a disaster called the Texas City Explosion. And sadly, you might say, which one? Because there's been multiple massive explosions in Texas City. One of the reasons why is because Texas City has made a name for itself as one of the premier petrochemical...
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Like the word disintegrate works in a lot of the instances when you're describing what happened to a lot of the structures and people who were around this blast.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Yeah, that proved to be a real problem. So, like, first of all, the fact that the entire fire department, apparently there was one survivor from the fire department, but he was out of town at the time. That's why he survived. But the whole fire department and all of their equipment was immediately wiped out.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
One of the problems was with an explosion like this in a place like this is that it ruptures lines and pipes and all of those petrochemicals that are being refined suddenly catch fire. So now you have these out of control fires in the buildings and structures that are left standing and you no longer have a fire department or any fire equipment to put it out for a little while.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
So the immediate impact outside of the blast was also the fires that were
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Yeah. So it took a little while for more aid to show up. But apparently this explosion was so bad and the catastrophe was so great, the Army, Navy, Coast Guard, Marines, Texas National Guard, and then firefighters from surrounding cities all came out to help.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
And this wasn't just like putting this chemical fire out, but also like trying to, you know, rescue people from rubble. Like there's really a lot that we could sit here and say. But if you have a computer in front of you, like just look up pictures from the Texas City explosion of 1947. It's just amazing.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
unreal what happened to like enormous steel buildings just turned into like twisted metal and this is like you know the middle of a work day so there were people trapped all over the place um in this debris so there was a huge um rescue operation that had to start but it was delayed because most of the people who were tasked with that kind of thing had all been killed in the initial blast
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
For a little while. And they were finally, because the high flyer caught fire as well, they were finally forced out by the smoke. Because this is some noxious, noxious smoke. This isn't, I mean, this isn't just like wood burning smoke. This is some really bad chemical smoke that can mess you up. It's crazy that these sailors stayed aboard for an hour. But they're finally forced off a ship.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
But they tell people like, hey, this is on fire. And everybody's like, have you seen the other problems we have over here? And the fire department just got basically vaporized. So the fire was allowed to continue on the high flyer for hours, hours and hours. Like that blast happened at 9, 12 a.m.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
And it wasn't until the afternoon that somebody else rediscovered the fire aboard the high flyer and started to kind of like raise the alarm about this. Still, this is such a chaotic scene that there wasn't anything immediately done about it. And it wasn't until 11 p.m.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
ports in the United States and indeed possibly the world. I think it was up until World War II, it was like the fourth largest port in Texas. But I think since World War II, it's grown even more. And I know for a BP had a refinery that was its most profitable oil refinery in the world, which is really saying something. I mean, that's a big deal. BP is an enormous company with multiple refineries.
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that they're finally like, oh, this is a really, this is a bad jam because not only do we have a thousand tons, tons of ammonium nitrate aboard the high flyer, there's that sulfur you mentioned, Chuck. And like you said, it makes it even more unstable in that, you know how ammonium nitrate oxidizes things? Yes. sulfur is like food to that stuff. It oxidizes sulfur.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
It's just like piling on this oxidizing fuel to make the blast even more energetic. So it would be a really big problem if the high fire blew up. So they brought in some tugboats and a fireboat, I think, from Galveston and started to try to take it out of the berth to tug it out to sea to let it like burn out or blow up or whatever it was going to do.
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But I guess it was stuck so fast that they couldn't get it out.
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Yeah, and plus also they knew enough by this time that they needed to clear the area, that there wasn't anything they could do. So everybody who was working in the rescue operation was told to leave.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
So I don't know if there were any more deaths from the high-flyer blowing up, but the problem was is that any fires that might have been put out were relit, and other structures that may have been spared from the initial blast were now leveled or caught fire or both. So it was a big problem that the high flyer blew up as well.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
It did. It sunk it. And it was, yeah, I can only imagine, too, also, if you survived that first one, to have another blast like that, even one you were away from and you knew was coming, would just do something to the nerves that would be really difficult to recover from.
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Yep, and now through the 24th, DoorDash has big deals running for the holidays from Best Buy, Ulta Beauty, Wingstop, Aldi, and more. You can save money and the holidays all with DoorDash. Whether you tell people is up to you.
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So, you know, for the biggest one, the most profitable one to be in Texas City, it kind of put Texas City on the map in some circles.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Okay, so Chuck, one thing that we didn't say was that the initial explosion by the Grand Camp created like a 15-foot tidal wave that washed inland. And— people died almost in creative ways in this disaster. And one of those ways was those petrochemicals. I think there was a molasses refinery that started to get mixed in that kept the petrochemicals burning in the water when it mixed with them.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
When this tidal wave blew out, people, When it blew in, I'm sorry, it was on fire. So it actually caught people on fire. It caught people on fire on the way back out to sea. And people who'd survived the initial blast were actually swept out and drowned from this too. There were people who died in airplanes that had come around to kind of circle the area and were blown out of the sky. Yeah.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
There were people who died in buildings that collapsed. There were people who died from shrapnel falling out of the sky and killing them even though they were miles away. There was so much death and destruction that it's really difficult to get across what happened to this poor little port city that hadn't done anything to anybody that just suddenly blew up.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Yeah, the final body wasn't found until mid-May. There were people who were never, like you said, accounted for. The converse of that was true, too. There were parts of people that were never recovered. And one of the accounts that I read was – like I was saying, was written by I think a University of Houston historian named Cheryl Lowersdorf Ross in – in the journal Houston History.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
But she recounts somebody mentioning a woman who was trying to identify her husband who is lost in the disaster. And she had to sort through hands. They had a collection of hands that this woman was trying to figure out which one belonged to her husband. And like... That's just nuts to hear. But if you can even begin to put yourself into that woman's shoes.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
What conversation led to that? Like what hunting trip ends up in you basically building a port town in a city that's about as far away from your home as you can get in the same country?
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Yes, of being in that room of like looking at different hands. And then also not just the horror of that, of like having to look through body parts that may or may not be your husband's. But then the self-doubt, like, is that my husband's hand? Like, I don't remember what it looked like.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
You know, like that, just your mind messing with you on top of the horrific experience that you're already experiencing. undergoing. But she was one of many because something like 61 people, I believe, were interred without being identified. But their remains were kind of assembled and put together in a memorial service that was attended by something like thousands of people, I believe.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
So, Chuck, so if there was 16,000 people and that many people were hurt or killed by this blast, you can imagine how quickly this little town was overwhelmed with all these casualties. And so they were getting people like every which way, trucking them over to Galveston, like getting them wherever they could, whatever hospital they could find.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
But very quickly, the high school gym was taken over to serve as a field hospital. And then shortly after that, the morgue. And one of the stories that stuck out to me was the Boy Scouts were pressed into service to basically help out however they could. And these poor little, like, teenage and preteen Scouts are, like, working in this makeshift morgue in their high school gym.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Like, imagine the impression that had on them the rest of their life, you know? Jeez. I know. Isn't that crazy? Like, every aspect of this story is just nuts. It's very sad. Yeah.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Yeah. So that funeral procession that they had that attracted, I think, something like 5,000 mourners was a real, like, community effort. There were something like 50-plus funeral homes from 28 different cities that all participated.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
And each of these 63 unidentified people, where there were remains, I should say, were put in their own individual caskets and buried in the Memorial Park, which is still, you know, there. That park is still there with the anchor and everything. But it was it's just it's such an enormous, weird catastrophe and just such a devastating thing, especially looking back 70 years to read about.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
But when you do read about it, if you can just kind of put yourself in mind of what that was like, you know, trying to. recover from that. It's astounding that Texas City did recover. A lot of people moved and just said, not only do I think the city is never going to come back from this, I don't know if I can come back from this.
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But the city actually did come back and they did build back from what I understand even bigger than before, which is how that BP refinery that ended up blowing up that became the most profitable in BP's entire company because the city built back even better than before.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
So I saw both. I saw that it was about as big, and I saw that it was about half the size. But even at half, you know. So, yeah, go look at video of that. What's astounding about that Beirut blast is there happens to be people who are filming when it happened because there was a fire right before.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
So you've seen that white cloud. That's that water vapor expanding, right? And you can't see it, but there's nitrous oxide gas in there as well. So imagine twice that size. That would probably be about the size of that first Texas City blast in 1947. Yeah.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
No, and like the story behind it is kind of interesting. It was started in Georgia, not our Georgia, but the Republic of Georgia, en route to Mozambique. And apparently the owners were like, we're not making enough money on this stuff. this trip. So we're going to divert over to Beirut and pick up some more freight. And the crew said, no, we're not going to do that.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
It's going to make the wait dangerous. So they balked, port fees started racking up, and the owners apparently just decided to abandon the crew, the ship, and the cargo. The cargo, once it was impounded, should have been sold off, but it wasn't.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Instead, it just, like you said, sat there, stored incorrectly for six years until something caused it to blow up, which is, I mean, just the idea that it was just negligence that led to that catastrophe is... It's even worse. I think that's something that's missing from the Texas City disaster.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
There wasn't really any negligent act, maybe a mistake or a bad choice, but no one was particularly negligent about it. So I think it kind of makes the Beirut blast even worse, that people were supposed to be doing stuff that they didn't do, and a lot of people died as a result.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Everything that I've read about that was that there was a direct result of BP cutting safety in favor of higher profit margins. That's what happened. That's what allowed this plant to deteriorate, and the machinery just didn't work. But they traced this explosion. This is an oil refinery explosion. It had nothing to do with ammonium nitrate.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
But I think whatever chemical they put in gas to boost the octane level— They turned a machine on that does that and somehow like all these components to gasoline started vaporizing out into the air. It started shooting out of this tower because the pressure was overloaded.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
And there was so much gas vapor in the air that somebody had a pickup truck running nearby and it got sucked up into the air intake and the engine started revving. And that's actually what ignited the whole thing, all of this gas vapor, this pickup truck sucking in gas molecules that were just vaporized in the air around it. In Texas City, again. It's crazy. So you got anything else?
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
I got nothing else. Well, if you want to know more about the Texas City disaster, you can go look that up. I would strongly recommend reading Cheryl Lowersdorf Ross's Changing Lives in a Heartbeat journal article. And also, big shout out to fireengineering.com. They had a good one. And then the local 1259, the Texas City Firefighters Union website.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
has a really comprehensive overview of the Texas City disaster, too. So maybe check those out for even more details. And since I said that, it's time for listener mail.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Yeah, the military ran it like a tight ship, basically. And yeah, there's just a big difference between when the military is running a port and when a port's run by just a whole bunch of different private companies. You know what I'm saying?
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
The scales just fell from his eyes and he was free finally.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Thanks, Ryan. Thanks for getting in our heads like that. Apparently we got in your heads too, so it's only fair. Don't you think, Chuck?
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Ryan Peschel saves the day again. And only Ryan knows what I'm talking about. I just ruined his life again. He's back in the game. If you want to get in touch with us and try to get in our heads like Ryan did, so we have to think of you every time we say something about listener mail or what have you, you can write to us. Send us an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Exactly. Yeah. So that's not to say it was just some loosey-goosey place or anything like that, but just comparatively speaking. And one of the other things that Texas City had going against it on the morning of April 16, 1947, is that there weren't really a lot of standards and regulations for handling chemicals. And that we didn't have an enormous grasp on just how chemicals worked at that time.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
And so all of these things kind of came together. This kind of slightly lax oversight and just kind of much more relaxed attitude toward cargo. And then a lack of awareness about just what kind of dangers different cargos pose, just kind of set things up to take a bad turn.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Which one was it? Well, it was the Wilson B. Keene, even better.
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Yeah, and I believe all three of those were Liberty ships, right?
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Yeah, it's really important. So for the five days leading up to April 16th, Steve Doors, I think that's how you say it, but basically Doc Hands. I don't know why you wouldn't just say Doc Hands, you know, but Steve Doors. Man, I hope I'm saying that correctly, Chuck. Yeah. They had loaded up the Grand Camp with 2,300 tons of ammonium nitrate fertilizer.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
And these were in 100-pound paper sacks akin to the kind of sacks that you would buy like Portland cement in these days, right?
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
There was some other cargo, sisal twine, peanuts. There was some machinery. There was some cotton. There was 16 cases of ammunition, I think like for small arms ammunition. But for the most part, it was a lot of ammonium nitrate. And the same went for the SS High Flyer, too, which, as you said, was in the next berth.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
It was loaded with 1,000 tons of ammonium nitrate and then also, very crucially, 2,000 tons of sulfur. And all of these were also in those same 100-pound paper bags. So at the time, like I was saying, people didn't realize, like, this is a big deal that there was that much ammonium nitrate just sitting around in this port at that time.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Yeah, and I mean, like, it's not even considered flammable as far as I know. And certainly in 1947, it wasn't considered flammable because if you walked up to some of this ammonium nitrate, these pellets, and just held a lighter to them, they wouldn't catch fire. That's not really what they do. What they do is they oxidize things.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Hey, everyone. It's me, Josh. And for this week's SYSK Selects, I've chosen our episode on the Texas City disaster. In Texas, they do everything bigger, including industrial disasters. In this episode from March of 2021, we cover one of the biggest explosions in American history, made up of not one, but two huge blasts that leveled the refinery poor town of Texas City.
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They basically create free radicals like we talked about in the free radical episode. Yeah. Which sets off like a chain reaction. And because they oxidize, they concentrate and condense and produce basically oxygen where it wasn't otherwise present. When that is combined with the fire, it makes a big time fire. So that's bad enough, right?
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Like if you set them off, like it'll combust or it'll help something else combust more efficiently and more at a higher temperature. But the problem, the big problem with ammonium nitrate is there is a point where it can reach a high enough heat that it itself decays and degrades. And when that happens, it splits into two gases, nitrous oxide and water vapor, right?
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which you're like, well, that's great. You just get super-duper high off of one, and the other one just makes you a little moist. Maybe so. Maybe so in small enough amounts. But when this happens in a large enough amount, especially when this ammonium nitrate is in one big melted block, the chain reaction can happen much more efficiently. And when those gases are produced –
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
when the thing decays and separates, they expand really quickly and that produces an explosion. And the forces, the energy that's released from an explosion of ammonium nitrate decaying and converting into nitrous oxide and water vapor is monumental. Like compared to atomic bomb blasts, basically, if you have enough of it, say 2,300 tons and 1,000 tons and a couple of ships just sitting in port.
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Every holiday season starts with the best of intentions. Bake that homemade pie. Get all your holiday shopping done early. But then, life gets in the way. But don't feel bad. It happens to everyone. And luckily, you've got DoorDash.
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Yep, and now through the 24th, DoorDash has big deals running for the holidays from Best Buy, Ulta Beauty, Wingstop, Aldi, and more. You can save money and the holidays all with DoorDash. Whether you tell people is up to you.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
Yeah, they said, you owe me two bucks from lunch yesterday. That's what they said when they were loading this up.
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Well, what I saw later on, Chuck, that the fact that these things were in those paper sacks – That if they were heating up, they were just going to continue to heat up, being packed tightly in the hold of this unventilated ship. They were just going to get warmer and warmer. And it's possible that the ammonium nitrate caused the paper sack to combust, catch fire, spread to other paper sacks.
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Selects: The Texas City Disaster of 1947
And then you had a positive feedback loop where it just kept getting, the fire kept getting bigger and bigger and crucially, very important, hotter and hotter.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
What do you mean? Like it, like it was lopsided or there's a horn growing out of it.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
Yeah, cooking's an art. Baking is a science, for sure.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry. The three of us are together, which means it's time for Stuff You Should Know About Cake. Cake, cake, cake, cake, cake, cake, cake, cake. Cake, cake, cake, cake, cake, cake.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
Yeah, well, that's what I say, too. You didn't make that up, right? I think I did. Okay. So with a cake, right, what you're doing is producing a chemical reaction. And I knew that.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
But I had no idea on this granular level that this article gets into just how much of a chemical reaction baking a cake is. Yeah, and this is pretty neat. The understanding of it, too, to me. So you want to start with a leavening agent, right? That's right. That's how you get from batter, which is kind of flat and soupy and wet, to a nice tall cake.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
The reason it rises is because of a leavening agent. And way, way, way back in the day, they used to use yeast. They used yeast for everything. They would make some beer. They would make a cake. They'd make some bread. They would throw it into the eyes of their enemy. They would in a fight, a dirty fight.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
And then eventually yeast kind of fell to the wayside a little bit as they realized that there's other ways to make cake rise. One of the big ways is to actually introduce air into it. And if you, say, beat some eggs – What you're doing, you're not just breaking the eggs down into their kind of components or like a mishmash of all of their components.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
You're also introducing air into that mix, which will eventually, as we'll see, transfers into the cake to make it rise.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
Yeah, because it's not just like, oh, that makes the flour pretty. Yeah. The sifting flour introduces air into the whole mix, too. Yeah, this is all very important stuff, so you can't cheat any of these steps. No, you can't. You really need to follow a cake recipe pretty closely.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
Yeah, because you couldn't say, well, I'm going to substitute this flour for a bunch of salt. Like not only would it taste radically different, like you're affecting the chemical composition of the mixture.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
Right, which you can also use on those snowy days to clear the road too. That's right. So you've got yeast as a leavening agent. You've got introducing air through like whipping something. And I found this mention of a recipe that called for four eggs to be beaten for two hours. Holy cow.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
So you can imagine that everybody was pretty psyched when chemical leavening agents were introduced in the mid-19th century. Right.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
No, this was with your arm. Yeah. And yeah, it was not. I mean, I imagine if the person you were working for asked for a cake, you're just like, this is a bad day. This is going to be a bad day. Did you beat for three hours? Right. And the whole reason, again, you're doing this is to introduce some air, right?
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
But if you could use something else, say like sodium bicarbonate, also known as baking soda, and you mixed it, which is a base, and you added another ingredient in there, which is like an acid, say like buttermilk or yogurt or vinegar, right?
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
like in a vinegar cake, that sodium bicarbonate, that base and that acid are going to mix together and form a chemical reaction and release CO2. Yes. And this is how modern cakes rise. CO2 is released through this chemical reaction and it goes and bubbles up through the cake and makes the cake rise with it. That's what leavening agents do is they take air and they expand it and make it the cake.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
And we'll get to that a little more, but that's very important stuff. That's a famous chef's apron, baker's apron. Ask me about my air holes.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
Oh, yeah, yeah. I know what you mean. I tend to think butter is healthier of all of them, too. Yeah. Although olive oil has a beat. It's just such a radically different taste.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
I love olive oil. Especially when you're baking with it. Although, have you ever had an olive oil cake? I don't think so. I don't remember where I had it, but, man, they are good. Really? Yes. They're surprisingly good, but it is definitely its own distinct thing. You know what I'm saying?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
I'm surprised you can only think of one.
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Like, subbing olive oil out for butter is going to give you a weirdo recipe that no one's going to like, but they might pretend they do if they like you. Yes. But they don't really like that.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
Right, and one of the reasons why he's swapping something out for butter in particular, too, I mean, butter gives it its richness. It helps improve its moistness and texture, right? Butter's great. But butter also has a tendency to incorporate air when you cream butter, when you start to mash it around. Mm-hmm. That's the whole reason.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
They're not telling you to cream the butter just to make it look good before you add it to the batter. You're actually incorporating air there. So that butter is serving both as a fat and as a leavening agent in that recipe. Correct. So if you come across a recipe that calls for butter that must be creamed, there's something else going on besides just getting a buttery taste out of your cake.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
Cake or pie, both. Yeah, same here. Why choose between two wonderful things that you don't have to choose between? Agreed. As a matter of fact, every once in a while, you'll hit like the birthday party jackpot where they'll have like cake and pie. And you're like, looks like I'm in heaven. But today, Chuck, we're not talking about pie.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
Yeah, and sugar is another one, too, where if you see sugar and you sub it out for something else, it can have an impact on that chemical reaction.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
Because it does all those things you were talking about. Like one of the things it does is the crystalline structure of sugar actually cuts through the batter to help release CO2 more easily. And like you said, it binds to water, which means it does two things. It locks it in so that it keeps moisture in.
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Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
But sugar also robs that water from some of the proteins and the starches that give the cake its structure. Right. which means that they're not going to be able to become tough and dense like you were saying because sugar's already grabbed onto that water molecule.
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And sugar in particular, you're not going to get the same thing with like stevia or honey. Like it's not going to have the same effect. It's crystalline sugar, and it doesn't have to be white refined sugar. You'd have the same effect, I think, with like turbinado cane sugar too.
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Right. And then sugar also gives it that nice golden brown color through the Maillard reaction.
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Eggs are big. Yeah. Especially if they're ostrich eggs. Eggs, I know. Eggs have proteins in them, right? And there's a couple of things in there. Those proteins help give structure to the cake. I believe.
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literally nice yes that wasn't meant to be a pun i meant that and i think the two big emulsifiers are actually in the egg yolk um cholesterol and lecithin are found in egg yolk and they're like hey everybody come on let's let's hang out that's right and there's also fats in egg and we also
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Plus also if you're using whole eggs, most of the egg white is water. The vast majority is water. And as we'll see, water and liquids play a big role in the cake too. So it's all – like the idea of people figuring all this out through –
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Although we can talk about one pie in particular because we're talking about cake. It turns out, I saw this somewhere, that Boston cream pie is actually a cake. Oh, really? Yeah. Surprise, Boston. Sorry to ruin your day.
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millennia of little contributions here there it's just it's just a blessing on humanity it is it's a really neat accomplishment that everyone had came together to figure this out over the span of time and wonderful kitchens on cold winter days that were like you know you've got like a nice cake baking in the oven you're contributing to humanity's knowledge of being great
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A lot of unhappy families and a lot of unpleasant conversations about those cakes, but still.
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Yeah. So in a standard glutinous cake, that gluten from the flour mixing with the water forms a gel, and it gives it that structure. It gives it that... consistency, the texture that you're looking for. But again, the sugar is robbing the proteins and the starches from getting too much water because the more water it gets, the tougher the cake is going to be, the more gluten.
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So you actually want to make sure that your sugar is taking away some of the liquids. But also the type of flour you use has a lot to do with how tough your cake is going to turn out. Right. So like there is such a thing as cake flour. Yes. That's something like 7%, 7.5% protein, which is going to translate into less gluten when you mix it with water, right? Yeah.
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So it's going to be a lighter, fluffier cake. And then there's all-purpose flour is 10.5%. Bread flour is 12%. And depending on what kind of consistency you want in your cake, you would use these different kinds of flour. And all of it comes down to the amount of gluten that's going to be produced when it interacts with the liquids. That's right.
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Yeah, it blows up the CO2 bubbles in it even further, which helps make the cake rise. Plus, it also, Chuck, fosters that chemical reaction between the acids and the bases that act as leavening agents that release CO2 in the first place. The presence of liquids and the presence of water specifically, I think, and heat really make that CO2 go berserk.
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The article on it was written in a thick Boston accent. Yeah. Yeah, it is a cake. I'm not sure why, but I just know it's a cake now. And I want to give a hat tip here. I mean, we both worked off of the How Stuff Works article. But I also found a lot of good stuff on a site called What's Cooking America. Did you run across them? I did. They are good, man.
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Right. And even in the 18th century, they weren't in every household either, but they started to become a lot more prevalent around that time. That was a big first step toward people baking at home. Not just cakes, but anything, you know? Yeah. In cake history, that was a huge monumental moment when the enclosed oven became kind of ubiquitous among households.
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Right. And if you have those things, you can make a cake after cake after cake that your family won't be mad about. The sailors will stop coming by and being like, you got any more of them terrible cakes you made? Sailors? Yeah, that's who you give the terrible cakes to. Bumpkin sailors? Yeah. Sure. All right.
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So with the oven in particular, I didn't realize this, but you know how the liquid and the heat and the sodium bicarbonate and the acids are mixing together to make the cake rise? Yes. That is actually a really fragile state of affairs while the cake is baking and the structure, the proteins and the starches and the gluten are actually solidifying and making this cake. Right.
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And if you mess with the oven, meaning like you open and close the door too often or you slam it shut too hard. Yeah. The change in temperature on the one hand can cool those gases and make your cake fall and it makes a womp.
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sound as it does as everyone knows and then the air pressure from slamming the door can burst those CO2 bubbles and again the proteins haven't had a chance to solidify and make the cake structure so the cake can fall from that as well And if you'll notice, once a cake gets to a certain point, if it falls, it falls in the middle.
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The outside usually stays up because that part has solidified already. The stuff in the middle hasn't quite cooked through. So that would be the part that falls. And that also proves my point.
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Sure. Well, again, it's a science experiment.
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They have, you know, clearly their niche is cooking, baking, all things like culinary. But they've got some really well-researched articles on their site about, like, the history of cakes and things like that. Yeah, that's good stuff. Kudos to you. You remember Kudos? The granola bar? Those are great. Oh, yeah. Are those not around anymore? No. No? No, those are gone.
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Do you have a window in your oven? Sure, of course. What am I, a communist? Do you? Yes, with a light.
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What do you have? Just a stainless steel door. That's a dishwasher, man. Oh, that's my problem. Yeah, like my cakes always come out wet and soapy. Wait a minute. Do I have a window? Sure you do.
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You can go to like any big box hardware store, lollipop hardware store. Off the internet? Sure.
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Matter of fact, I think they probably sell them at the grocery store even. You go find yourself some golf wax and you're probably near the refrigerator oven light bulbs.
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That's not bad. No, you can, but it's just never quite as good. I think it always tastes like disappointment. You know what I mean? Because you want it to come out clean any time you're doing that. You're never really putting it in and expecting it to come out battery.
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So even though you do get to lick it, that's like the one plus side of that experience, I think.
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Yep. And the other good thing about letting it cool in the pan first, too, is when you cool it on the wire rack, it won't get those wire indentations in the cake because it'll be stable enough. I never thought about that. Nobody likes that. Sure, you can fill it in with a little extra frosting. Yeah. Actually, now that I think about it, that's great. Those indentations are just fine.
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And then RIP also Bonkers Candy. So kudos went the way of the dodo.
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They were like a fruit chew, but like really had some chew to it. Not like Starburst, you know, it just disintegrates. These were like, they were chewy. They were good. They're about as good as it gets really candy wise.
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Okay, Chuck, you remember I was talking about baking soda and how that changed everything? Yep. That was a big one. That was from the 1840s, baking soda, sodium bicarbonate. Just good old-fashioned, regular old baking soda started to be added to it. But at the time, you needed to also add another ingredient that was an acid so that the two would react and form CO2 or produce CO2, right? Yeah.
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Somebody about 20 years after baking soda was developed said, oh, I got this. we're going to come up with something called baking powder. And I never knew this, but this is the difference between baking soda and baking powder. Baking soda is just sodium bicarbonate. Baking powder is sodium bicarbonate and two other dry acidic minerals that when dry, they don't do anything.
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You can mix them together all day long and they just sit there like, what? But in the presence of water and heat, then they start to react chemically with one another. So you can add just a little baking powder and you don't need an extra ingredient like yogurt or vinegar or some other acid. It's got the base and the acid that's going to produce the CO2 in there.
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That was a huge, huge advancement for cakes. But it actually came kind of toward the end of cake advancements. Prior to that, just the mass production of the Industrial Revolution had a big impact on cakes, among many, many other things. But definitely had an impact on the spread of cake baking, especially in the United States.
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Yeah. It also gets stink out of, like, clothes, too.
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Mm-hmm. You can use it to, well, that's it. No, like school science projects. You want to make a volcano? Yeah, vinegar and baking soda. That's right. I love that.
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There's like three or four people who are like walking around toothless now. It's just rotten right out of their heads. Well, and also.
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Yeah. And the public went, hooray, because remember they had ovens now in their houses. Yes. and they had the idea that you could just get a mix from the store and just add water. It was huge. It was a huge change.
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And what's interesting is this whole P. Duff & Sons story, they're out of Pittsburgh, by the way, from them coming up, because I think they quickly went from just gingerbread mixes to cake mixes themselves as well. But that busts several myths, actually, some longstanding food myths.
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One of them is that cake mix came out of a surplus of flour from World War II. That's where the cake mix came from.
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No, it was because a lot of the food companies started getting into pre-mixed foods that you could make pretty easily in your kitchen. But then the other one, I love this one. There's this long-standing myth or this story about a guy named Ernest Dichter. Back in the 1950s, Ernest Dichter, he was a psychologist, I believe. He came up with the term focus group.
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He came up with the whole idea of focus groups to help companies figure out why their new product wasn't doing so well or how to make a product that they hadn't launched yet even more appealing. This guy came up with that whole idea of focus groups, right? Correct. So he's also credited with being the man who saved cake mixes because cake mixes came out. Everybody kind of loved them.
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And then supposedly sales went flat. And Ernest Dichter got a focus group together and found out that women who made cakes using these cake mixes felt guilty about that they weren't contributing anything to their families. They were just adding water and making a cake and then quietly sobbing while their family ate it.
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Right. So Dichter realized that the best thing that these cake mix companies could do is to remove the dried egg ingredients from the mix and tell the consumer to add her own eggs. So then that way she was contributing. Well, it was a huge success and cake mixes took off and became part of the American pantheon from that point on.
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The myth? Yeah, was it... I'm not sure either. I don't know, but it is a long-standing food myth that you can find some very credible sources who say, like, oh, this happened. It's just everywhere, but it turns out that's not true. But I think the reason why it has had legs for so long is because Ernest Dichter is actually rightfully credited with saving the cake mix market through a focus group.
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And he did find that women were kind of... They didn't feel guilty about it, about not contributing more to the cake mix. They think they were more bored by it. So he advised companies to figure out a way to make cake baking about way more than just baking the cake. And so companies decided that they were going to start promoting cakes more.
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as just the beginning part, that the real point of baking cakes was to make these elaborate, amazing cakes that you decorated. And it took you hours and hours to make these things. And it was like a scene of like Humpty Dumpty on a brick wall. But the whole thing was made out of cake. And that was fostered by the introduction of frosting. And that came from Ernest Dichter.
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And that actually is what saved the cake mix industry. That's right. Yeah. You want to know something about my mom?
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Clam chips sound kind of good. Seaweed strips. Oh, yeah, yeah. I know what you mean. Or like just figs. Right. Yeah. It's like a Fig Newton without the good tasting part that surrounds it. We take figs and we mash them up. Then we wrap them in cellophane and you eat them for $5 a piece. And your child spits them out because they know better. Right. Uh, no today. Uh, yes, I'm with you.
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That's awesome. Very cool stuff. You know, I had an older sister who, she died actually when I was 16 in a car accident. But she used to be the equivalent of your mom at making cakes. Oh, really? But she didn't even need to ask. She would just, she'd just make something up, right? Yeah, yeah. And there was this one year, I'll never forget this cake. We were all big time into Howard Jones.
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The singer? Yeah. It must have been like my ninth or tenth birthday. Both my sisters and me were totally into Howard Jones. And Karen, my sister, my oldest sister, made a Howard Jones keyboard cake. Wow. And it was a couple of sheet cakes put together, frosted, so it looked like one big thing. The black keys were Kit Kats. The knobs on the synthesizer were Rolos. Wow.
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I just looked around at all my friends like, does everyone see my cake? This is the greatest cake anyone's ever had. And no one can have any but me. No, I shared. Of course. I wanted everyone to partake in the bounty.
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Yeah. You supposedly want to reduce the heat. I think not the heat or the cook time. One of the two.
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Yeah. Two things you don't want to take our advice blindly on. Medical stuff and baking stuff. Yeah. Everything else is fine.
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No, and I think the creaming method, that's the one that best gets across this point. It's a chemical reaction. I know we've kind of been beating that horse, but it's really true. If you don't follow the steps correctly, the chemical reaction is not going to come out correctly. Right. And when you step back, you're like, but I'm baking a cake.
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I do think it's gotten a little out of hand. Like it's basically just a huge test of willpower at the office. Like every moment, you know?
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That's true, but do you want your cake to be good or do you want to just waste your time?
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Yep. It makes a difference. And it says that pound cakes are like a variation on the theme. Sure. I looked in the pound cakes, man. Do you know? So the idea that pound cakes called for a pound of each ingredient, that's actually true.
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But the reason why it called for a pound of each ingredient was because a lot of the British people at the time in the early 1700s couldn't read. So it was just an easy way to remember the recipe.
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All right. I'll buy that. They'd be like, what's a Tibbs?
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Delicious? Something icing? Imperial icing? Oh, I don't know. I can't remember. Okay, so the next one is the no aeration method to where you're not whipping anything up.
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Right. So this is the kind of thing that you use to make like a cheesecake or a flourless chocolate cake. Yeah, those can be very good. Sure. And you are probably going to need to add some sort of moisture because cakes like this tend to crack while they're baking, which is why a lot of them, cheesecakes in particular, you cook in a water bath in the oven. Right.
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Because that water vaporizes and steams around it and helps keep that moisture in. Yeah, I never knew that. The reason for the water bath?
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Yeah. They can be quite good. Oh, I love cheesecake. I don't think I've ever had any bad cheesecake. It's always good. That's another thing, too. Publix cheesecake is incredible. Man, they need to sponsor us. And they sell it by the double slice for those. Ugh. Like, you get two slices. And they have a key lime one, too, Chuck, that's just...
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Although if you don't like lemon stuff, you might not like that.
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Okay. Try their key lime cheesecake. Yeah. They really should send us some stuff, frankly.
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Right, and then the next thing you know, you've got like 10 wrappers laying around your desk thinking like, what have I done? I know, man.
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Yep. Um, there's a foaming method too, where you are basically using just egg whites usually, and you're aerating it by whipping them up, which makes a meringue. You can just stop there and incorporate sugar and you've got meringue. which would make a pavlova cake, which apparently Australia and New Zealand have been fighting over the origin of for close to 100 years now.
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But didn't New Zealand win? Supposedly. Although I saw another article from some researchers who said, no, it came even earlier, a decade earlier out of America via Germany. So who knows? But yes, out of Australia and New Zealand, New Zealand's apparently won that fight. But that's meringue and pavlova cake is like a meringue cake with like fruit in the middle of it. No.
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And then a listener sent us pavlova once. We made it. It was pretty good. It is pretty good, yeah. And then you can also take that egg foam and turn it into like a sponge cake, like an angel food cake or something like that. Not me. You don't like those either? No, I'm not big into angel food cake. Although you can use sponge cake for strawberry shortcake. That I will have.
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I don't think that's going to happen, but yeah. But again, though, today, I guess if you replaced all of those candy bars with cakes that were just sitting around, you'd get zero complaints from me.
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Okay, so those spongy cakes, that uses the egg foaming method. But if you're making a true strawberry shortcake, you're going to use an actual shortcake. Yeah, those are really good. And the reason they're called shortcake or shortbread is called shortbread is short is apparently a British term for crumbly.
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So that's where that came from. It has nothing to do with the size.
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It's funny. The kitchen can be a place of real tension sometimes.
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So that's why she's just like, just stay out of here, dude. Right. Just wait until the end. Yeah. And you show up, you're like, it's Marge's time to shine.
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Yeah, it always comes out. There's always a cake on the other end, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not like we get in serious fights over the kitchen stuff. Right, yeah. So what's the last thing here? Something called the all-in-one method. Yeah, that's just like a cake mix.
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I mean, it can be okay. Almond croissants are like one of my great joys in life lately. Oh, yeah. I suppose that's kind of what a bear claw is too, right? Yeah. All right, I'll take it back. Yeah, but that sweet almond paste inside is... Man, that's good stuff. No, it is good, but don't put that on top of a cake for me.
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No. I mean, you can make a neat-looking cake, but it's gross tasting, I think.
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But it's still good. Well, let's talk about cakes. Well, no, specific cakes like the red velvet cake, right? Yeah, delicious. Do you know why it's red? Well, food coloring. They use that to make it a little richer, but it actually naturally turns red. It's a chemical reaction between the cocoa, the vinegar in it, and the buttermilk, I believe.
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Yes. It turns it red. All right. I don't know about that. No, it's true.
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Try the, try, go find, like, an original, like, recipe. Well, I mean, what do you mean? Like one, if you see one that actually uses buttermilk, be like, okay, this one. This is one of the ones I'm going to try.
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Oh, gotcha. I see. But you have cocoa. Does it have like vinegar and buttermilk in it?
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Okay. Well, it should turn red on its own, but I don't think there's any harm in adding some more synthetic chemical red dye. Okay.
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That'd be weird. It's not ketchup cake. There's, yeah, that's Canadian, isn't it? Boo-hoo-hoo. There's hummingbird cakes. Well, what do you mean by the hummingbird?
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A hummingbird cake has, like, some nuts and some fruit in it, lots of frosting. I think it's a southern cake.
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I don't know. I'm not actually a southern native, so I would not say one way or the other. All my experience with hummingbird cake is it's more like a carrot-y cake with, say, like pineapple in it and some other fruits in it and a thick layer of frosting. And supposedly the reason it's called a hummingbird cake is because it's so sweet it could attract hummingbirds.
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No, I'm with you. Our freezer is always chock full of black bananas, blackened with age. Oh, sure. Because Yumi makes a killer banana nut bread from scratch. I mean, you just can't look at the bananas when she's incorporating them. Yeah, what does that do? Why is that the key? Do you know? They just are supposed to be mushy. Okay. Oh, okay. Gotcha.
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And the best way to make bananas mushy is... To let them age? Let them age. Freeze age them.
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Well, yeah, and that was one of the earliest cakes in the U.S. And I think what the author, Aaliyah Hoyt, is pointing out is that cakes came from all over the place through time and geography. Mm-hmm. And that the mass immigration tore into America over, say, like the 17th, 18th, 19th centuries and 20th too.
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All these people from all these different lands brought their ideas or ingredients of cake. And they kind of went through this Americanized grinder to where eggs were added, butter was added. And like you've got these ingredients so it bears a resemblance to its original one, but it's been like cake-ified in the American way. Right.
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And that started basically right as European settlers got to North America.
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It's American. It's named after a man whose last name was German. Oh, interesting. Well, that means he's German.
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Or just German chocolate cake, but it's really American, everybody, is what the real title should be. Strawberry shortcake that you mentioned that does come from the old world? I'm not much of a jingoist either, I think you might say. Of course not. But I've never felt more national pride than in talking about cakes.
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I like it because you can just eat it with your hand. Sure, just pick it up and eat it. Yeah, it's like cake on the go.
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You definitely wouldn't like a hummingbird cake then even.
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Right. Well, I guess it's a fruit. See, that's not a fruitcake to me. No. You just don't like the juicy fruits in your cake, it sounds like.
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And then there's other, again, there's cakes around the world that look like cakes, kind of like tiramisu.
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It's a quintessential Italian cake, but it was invented in the 1960s. Black Forest Cake actually is from Germany. It was invented in 1915. So what happened was, again, cake explosion happened here in the good old U.S. of A., and it spread back out to the world. There was an influx of cake ideas into America. America perfected the cake, and it went back out to the world. That's right.
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Three kinds of milk, evaporated, condensed, and whole. It's tough to go wrong with that.
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And I've had good and bad Tres Leches, but I've never had an actual Tres Leches. I was like, this is so bad, I'm not going to finish it. Right. Have you? No. And then there's Dorayaki. Which is like, have you ever had this? I don't think so. One of the big things that people in Japan love is like sweetened red bean paste. Okay.
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You can find it here or there in like sweets, but this dorayaki in particular is like between two pancakes. It's like a filling. Sometimes it's not even two pancakes. It's like a hole with like a red bean paste inside.
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Well, okay, let's just get it out there. What's your favorite cake of all time? Oh, jeez.
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cake like thing with red bean paste inside it's good um you can they're best like hot off of the street from somebody who just made it that's when it's absolutely best but it's like the kind of thing you can also find in a 7-eleven or something too like in cellophane wow yeah it's good it's no cheesecake no japanese cheesecake i'll tell you that nope but it's still pretty good
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Man, that was a good one, I think. Cakes. All right. Are you done? I'm done. Okay. If you want to know more about cakes, go eat some. You're going to love them. Yes. There's a cake out there for you. And since I said that, it's time for Listener Mail.
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Wow. Wow, we are really good at that, huh?
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What? That's pretty rare, though, out of 1,000. Yeah, but still, it seems like I thought it was even rarer than that.
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Oh, there's a lot of those. I'm going to say out of 1,000 episodes... 320. He says 59. So I don't know about this, Nick. I think you missed a few. Nick, you're just making up numbers, aren't you? Drinking scotch at home and making up numbers. How many paper lists have you eaten? Me? Yeah. One that I know of. Yep, you nailed it. I remember the episode, too.
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It was how geniuses work or what makes a genius. And I said that if this list, if the list of geniuses, if the number one genius was Einstein, I would eat the list. And it turned out it was Einstein.
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I think it's literally countless. If he came up with a number, it's a lie. He says 288. That's got to be more than that.
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I don't know. I think a lot just just works for that. Four hundred and twenty six times.
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This is all gold. Plus, thanks for buttering us up with the care package, too, Nick. That was nice of you.
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Cool. Thanks a lot, Nick. Well, if you want to be like Nick, you can send us an email to stuffpodcast at howstuffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.
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Favorite of all time. Well, everybody knows that cake perfection was achieved sometime in the 20th century when Publix grocery stores started selling their yellow cake with buttercream frosting. Oh, yeah? There's no better cake on the planet. It's like a yellow sheet cake? Mm-hmm. It's simple. But it's tasty. It doesn't need any dressing up.
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But if it does, we'll just put like some – add some more frosting in the shape of balloons on top, right? It's just perfection. It's the perfect cake. I love it. I can eat it morning, noon, and night. I can eat stale stuff I found in the dumpster behind Publix. I can eat the fresh stuff right out of the oven so hot that it burns my mouth. I would eat it any way that it was given to me.
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Yeah, that is the tops. What is Yumi's favorite cake? Yumi's is actually the same as mine. We both are junkies for Publix cake, to tell you the truth. Although I have to say she introduced me to the wonder of Japanese cakes. And there's this little-known fact about Japan. It loves to take – I shouldn't say it's little-known. Probably a lot of people know this.
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But it loves to take things that other cultures came up with and then improve them 10,000%. Right. And one of the things that they've done that with is the French bakery. So if you go to Japan, you'll see all these cute little kind of Provence-style French bakeries everywhere that sell the best baked goods you've ever had in your life, right? Better than Paris? Yes. Oh, by far. By far.
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That's very controversial. It is, but I'm telling you, you would just be like, Josh was right. This is better. I'm not kidding. They've improved on it. And they're very deferential still. They're like, oh, well, this is crap compared to what the French are making, however you would say that in Japanese. Uh-huh. But they're actually wrong. It actually is better.
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But one of the things that they make that's just top notch is this what they call cheesecake. It is not what you or I would call cheesecake at all. It's more like a yellow spongy cake. I don't know where the cheese thing comes in. Maybe there's a little cream cheese in there. I'm not quite sure.
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but um you and i would call it like kind of a dense yellow sponge cake but it is very very tasty and that's a kind of a japanese tradition that i would guess yumi would say is one of her favorites okay and just a little shout out there's a place in toronto uh next time we're there i'm going to take you there all right uh actually that's not true i brought you a cake from there from uncle tetsu's oh yeah cheesecake bakery yeah that's a japanese cheesecake oh that was good yeah they're the bomb
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Have you ever heard that German chocolate cake and red velvet cake are the same? It's actually not true. I haven't heard that. I had heard that many times. It's not true. But that German chocolate frosting is like, man, that's good. I'm not into that.
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butter creamy or just good old-fashioned birthday cake icing type thing yeah i mean yeah and and surely you agree public's is the pinnacle of that i don't know if i've ever had a public's cake oh i go to public's three times a week so next time i'm just gonna well now that you say that it might be best that you stay away well because you're gonna start adding us they sell it by the slice which is dangerous oh they do because that was that's the only way i would want to do it they sell it by the slice chuck like i can't bring a whole cake in my house
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Be sure you look closely because they have – yeah, it would be. They sell also the same kind with like a cream cheese frosting. You want yellow cake with buttercream frosting.
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Just give it a shot and let me know what you think.
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I think we just gave a lot of facts about what the greatest cakes in the world are.
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Right. And a lot of English words have like Germanic or Norse origins. Do you know that?
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So cake – the word cake is of English origin. So is bread. And apparently the bread and the cakes from back in the day, say during the medieval era – They were very, very similar. Probably the only difference was the cake might be slightly smaller.
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And it was definitely sweeter. So cake was like a sweeter version of bread back then.
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But that's not where the first cakes originated. They actually go way, way, way further back than that, right? Is that true? Yeah, it's true. Tuk-tuk? Yeah. That may be a little too far back. Yeah, I think so. So, but basically around the time, I believe, of Egypt, the pharaonic Egypt, they were making cakes using hot stones and honey and some sort of grain mashed up. Right.
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No, I'm not sure about Chinese cakes. I don't think I've ever had one.
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You know, one of the other things, too, that I didn't realize that I learned from this article, Chuck, was that a lot of the cakes you see around the world that you would mistake for, you know, customary or traditional cakes or that culture. They're actually relatively new.
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The cake that we know and love and understand is very much a 19th century American invention that came out of the Industrial Revolution.
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Yeah, the Greeks gave us the round cake and putting candles on the cake to honor Artemis to make the cake look like the moon. And Artemis was the goddess of the moon, right? Right. So they were like, look, Artemis, what do you think of this cake? She'd be like, it needs some frosting.
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Right. It makes you reflect on your own existence. That's right. And its eventual end. So by the time people were making birthday cakes in Germany, there was a long, long, long tradition of cakes already. And the word cake had started to originate in medieval Britain. But there was such a thing as a cheesecake already. The Romans created that and called it placenta. Seriously. Really? Yeah.
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The Greeks had created something that was basically a prototype of the fruitcake, plakous, I believe. Yeah, they called it feces. Right. So there were all these kind of cakes and breads and things that were starting to be developed. And I think even that pound cake that you're not so hip on came before the Industrial Revolution too.
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So there's stuff that you would kind of recognize as cakes, but the idea of a cake, what Americans call a cake and no one loves is a cake, that came out of the Industrial Revolution. The show is sponsored by cake. Cake. Eat some today.
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That's right. I love my Bombas socks. They are super cozy and the secret is in their fabrics. We're talking about the really good stuff like Merino wool, which feels as cozy as a ski lodge. But if you want to brave the cold on the slopes or on a snowy run, Bombas has athletic socks built for that, too.
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That's right. And if you get cold feet, then you got to try those slippers that they have. They're warm because they have that fluffy, sharp aligning and the marshmallow-like cushioning. Really good stuff.
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Yeah, there's a lot of value there. And, you know, you can like practice something like this and those breathing techniques. It's not exclusive to mindfulness or meditation or Buddhism. Uh, I, you know, that's a great technique. If you have kids, uh, I found that, you know, if, if, My daughter is having a bad time. Just kind of get her to slow down and take a couple of good deep breaths.
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Always a good thing to do. And Emily, who is someone who has a lot of anxieties in her life, is a struggling small business owner. We will do this thing where we have hug breathing where I will go up to her and we will have a good tight bear hug embrace and we'll breathe in together. And it's sort of like doubles the power of it.
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I mean, I'm sure. I mean, I didn't get it from anywhere, but I'm sure I didn't invent that. It sounds like a Viking mindfulness. Like Hell's Angels?
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Remember that point? I feel like it was about eight to ten years ago where everyone was just saying ish on the end of things. Instead of saying like, you know, finding the real word that they were looking for.
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Yeah, there's something about breathing together that close physically. It's pretty powerful.
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Yeah, this is pretty cool. Like I know we love it when we can kind of pinpoint when things happen or when things change. And this is one of them on November 28th in 1885. This is when the British Imperial Army conquered Burma and said King – we're going to mispronounce some of these – Thibau maybe? I think that's right. you're out of here.
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And that king was promoting mindfulness and promoting Buddhist institutions throughout the nation. The Brits, of course, said, no, we're not going to really do that. So it fell to the lay people to get organized, to find new places to meet, to find their own, you know, gathering grounds.
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And a lot of times these were monasteries and it would go through monks, but they would, it basically went to them to kind of figure it out because it wasn't, I don't want to say state-sponsored, but kind of state-sponsored.
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Yeah, I mean, it's cool stuff. Like, I love the idea that Leti Sayedal kind of put forth, which was you don't have to go to a monastery even. Like, we've set these up for you, and you can. You don't have to retreat to a cave. You don't even have to go into a deep meditative state or anything. Like, just momentary meditation. bits of mindfulness are very helpful.
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And that's a good way to reach regular lay people. And I think through practice is when Sayal came along and said, hey, that all sounds great. And buddy, I'm going to teach it.
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No, not even that. Like when there's like a real word that could be used and they would just throw ish on another word.
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Yeah, I think it's really interesting, too, that it was another act of war that led to, you know, that helped give rise to someone like Suzuki, just like when the Brits overthrew Burma. When the U.S. Navy attacked Tokyo Harbor in 1853, there was, you know, basically Japan was like, you know, we got to start relating to the West a little bit more and sort of modernize.
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And this was known as the Meiji Restoration. And part of that was... saying, hey, Shinto is going to be our religion, our main religion, and not Buddhism, which led the Buddhists to say, hey, maybe we should modernize our religion as well, you know, so we don't get left by the wayside. And that gave rise to someone like D.T. Suzuki. Right.
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So they jumped on it big time. It was pretty it was like a confluence of perfect timing as far as coming to the United States and like the counterculture ready for this.
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Absolutely. And there were three people in particular in the 70s and 60s and 70s practicing this. Joseph Goldstein, Jack Kornfield and Sharon Salzberg, who were not together, but they studied separately meditation in Burma. And then the mid 70s founded the Insight Meditation Society in Massachusetts, which became sort of the center of the Vipassana practice.
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meditation movement here in the United States, and they're still around. They're still doing their thing.
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That'd be like a boxer being named boxer. Yeah, it would be. But spelled differently.
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Yeah, I mean, he sort of had the same idea as previous cultures, which was, hey, if we want to and not sell for money, but if we want to popularize this, we should get a little bit away from the religion part, the sort of hippy-dippy new agey part. And he really wanted to start talking in concrete terms about things that everyone worried about, which was stress.
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And like, if you want to make your life less stressful, here's a way to do it. And more on mindfulness and less on meditation, which was still a tough sell to mainstream America. And still is today, I think.
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Yeah, and I think one of the big – tenets here is to interrupt automatic thoughts and the automatic thoughts that can lead to an automatic behavior. So the automatic thought might just be your propensity to feel that stress and reach for a drink immediately. And not even think like, oh boy, I need a drink because I'm stressed out and that'll help out. It becomes this automatic thing.
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And he was all about, and the practice of mindfulness is all about disruption and disrupting that flow without judgment.
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Yeah, there's a journalist named Robert Wright. And he kind of put it in a way that I kind of like, which was to think of your thoughts and emotions as transient. So it's not like – that kind of goes back to the no judgment thing. You can have these bad feelings and bad emotions and bad tendencies. But if you allow them to just flow through you, they become transient. They don't stick around.
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The same sort of ideas that you can't – why worry about things that you can't control? But not in a – an office poster kind of way. You know what I mean? Sure. It runs a bit deeper than that. It's not like a Pollyanna thing.
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Yeah. And it's interesting. They found that it's even though something like MBSR is more rooted in that sort of neuroscience thing and not spirituality or religion, they found it's sort of a chicken and the egg deal where Once you do participate in MBSR, you may become more spiritual as a result, even though you weren't going in.
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It looks like a taut thriller. She looks fantastic from what you can tell from a trailer. I know, man. Unless you just saved all the bad parts for the movie.
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Well, I say we take our second break, if that's good. Okay. And because we're Stuff You Should Know, we have to talk about whether or not this works and if there have been studies that tell us one way or the other. So we'll get into that right after this. Thank you.
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You know, we've all been there. You're sick. You're trying to schedule a doctor's appointment only to spend hours on hold. And then you find yourself crammed into a crowded waiting room with other sick people. And don't get me started about the prescriptions. That's a whole other story.
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All right. It's fun to sit around and talk about mindfulness. So fun. And to just sort of zen out and lose ourselves, become one with each other through these headphones.
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It's funny, I've seen him, and he's been in a bunch of stuff since then, and it's always impossible to see him as anyone other than Slater.
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And you're just waiting for him to whip out a doobie.
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All right, so does this stuff work? There have been plenty of studies, of course, and there is a lot of evidence that mindfulness programs can help people through emotional problems, through mental problems. They've done controlled trials of MBSR programs in clinical settings and non-clinical settings.
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And they generally found that they do, and this is self-reported stuff, obviously, but they reduce self-reported anxiety, depression, and stress and increase well-being as opposed to people who got no treatment at all.
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Yeah, I mean, I think that kind of says it all. You do help your in-group more, but the people that receive the real mindfulness training were definitely far and away more willing to step outside their in-group and help someone of another race. Yeah. You know, there's something to be said for that.
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Because passing judgment means I'm not being mindful because a big part of mindfulness is to not judge.
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I would love to know what sham mindfulness training looks like.
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Or they'd let them in like Lamaze breathing where they're like, I don't think that's right. That doesn't feel right. They start to float away. It's really funny. And shout out to Cal State San Marcos and Professor Daniel Berry and I guess Yumi for all that.
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But we do need to say that there's another school of thought, and it's not a competing school of thought. It's just a, hey, be aware that it's not always great for everyone. There's this one article you sent about people that experienced
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trauma in their lives that have buried it and it sits in their body as unconscious trauma, that mindfulness practices and meditation practices can dredge that stuff up.
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And so they found that when these people, they're studying them and they're doing these mindfulness practice, they're experiencing like rage and anxiety. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is the opposite of where we're supposed to be headed here. And I think they have figured out in a lot of these cases, it's people that are uncovering these buried traumas. Yeah.
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Yeah. And I guess if you're going to define mindfulness, you need to kind of go back in time. I mean, I guess we could hop in the Wayback Machine. We haven't done that in a while. Yeah, it's been a while. Let's pull the old cover off. It's quite dusty in here.
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Yeah, and I think another thing that can happen is it can lead to a spiral of anxiety if you're not able to get to that place that you think you should be getting to by practicing it.
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So it becomes like this cycle where, you know, you're thinking like, well, I'm practicing this meditation. It doesn't seem to be doing anything for me. Why can I not even do this right? And all of a sudden that is building upon itself and creating anxieties there.
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because you feel like you're supposed to reach this sort of moment of like floaty bliss that is, I mean, that's really hard to maintain. Yes. I mean, not maintain, but like even touch. Even reach, sure.
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When it comes to physical pain, that's a pretty interesting area as far as the studies have been concerned, like the idea that can it actually help reduce pain? physical pain, or at least the subjective experience of pain. And, you know, in some studies, in some cases, the people who practice meditation do report lower subjective experience of pain or what they call pain unpleasantness.
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So this might be a little bit of a mind over matter, like the actual pain is still there, but I've gotten my mind to in such a place that The unpleasantness or the anticipation of that unpleasantness isn't as great as it would be if I weren't able to practice that mindfulness.
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That's from, I always just crack up. Every time I think of an arrow hitting a human body, I only think of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. When that guy takes the arrow. Message for you, sir. There was one study, though, in 2019, a review of studies, actually, that found that MBSR can reduce severity of chronic pain or improve daily functioning and depression.
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about like associated with that pain, which is, you know, that's, there's something to be said for that. Like, I don't think it should only be looked at as some sort of hippie dippy thing. Like if you have real physical pain, it could possibly help.
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Right. And then we went back to the Old West to celebrate.
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And boy, is it being exposed because if you work for a big corporation, if you especially work in Silicon Valley, chances are there are mindfulness retreats, maybe mindfulness rooms in the offices where they say, hey. We know we work you to death and it's not fair. Why don't we set up this little room that used to be a room for your kids to come to work, but we don't let that happen anymore.
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It used to be the nursery. But we'll put you in here and you can zen out and be cool. And here's one of the criticisms. As long as you come back and you get all that work done, we think it's a great tool for you.
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Yeah, I mean, that critique is really valid. Like, it's great that a company might take mindfulness into consideration as something beneficial for their employees, but to ignore the root cause, which is you're working too many hours a week, And you're overworked and you can't possibly get done what you should get done. And that's where this anxiety is rooted.
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Here's a mindfulness room so you can help correct all that. Like it totally puts the onus on the employee to sort of self-adjust to, what's probably way too much work instead of saying, hey, maybe people wouldn't be in this position to begin with if they, you know, didn't have to work 60 hours in a week.
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Yeah, I love that word. And they're basically saying like, hey, you guys have so completely detached this from ethics and morals and religion.
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And kind of co-opted something that had its roots there that, yeah, there needs to be a term for that. You've mick-micked it.
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You've mick-screwed it up, exactly. You've mick-miffed it. You've mick-miffed it. I like that. And that, you know, you can't ignore the theological roots and have it be the same thing.
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Yeah. This, I think, is from the same article about mindful fracking.
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So who knew we were going to be talking about Ted Danson at the beginning of mindfulness?
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True mindfulness is deeply and inextricably embedded in the notion of wholesomeness, just as a tree removed from the forest is no longer a tree, but a piece of lumber. So also the caring attentiveness of mindfulness extracted from its matrix of wholesome co-arising factors denigrates into mere attention.
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I'm going to call this tribute to Ziggy Baumbach from his son, Michael. We got a great email that I've been conversing with Michael for the past couple of weeks on this. Good dude, and his dad was a good dude. Hey, guys, long-time listener. I recently lost my father, and I've been going through a great deal of grief.
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My dad was at high risk for catching COVID, so I made sure it was my priority to keep him safe. And since being social wasn't an option over the past couple of years, we turned to nature during the pandemic. and rekindled our love for the great outdoors, though he never had to rekindle his.
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If we get in the Wayback Machine and go back in time to sort of the beginning of Buddhism— You'd have to look at the language Pali and the word sati. Pali is P-A-L-I. Sati is S-A-T-I. There are a lot of different words for mindfulness.
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He was born in Poland and immigrated to the States in the 60s and was only ever comfortable in his gardener in the woods. He was a simple but passionate man, so he started driving out to western north New Jersey to Stokes Forest to get spring water and go fishing. It's a gorgeous part of the state.
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It was about 50 minutes each way, perfect to introduce him to my favorite podcast, Stuff You Should Know. Even though I had to describe to him what a podcast was, He was instantly enthralled, and I can still hear him quietly asking in the car if Chuck and Josh were going to be broadcasting today. It's just adorable.
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Like me, he adored your ability to convey something complex and tough information in such a sweet and conversational way. He would always come home and tell my mom what he had learned. With so much isolation the past few years, it was warming to hear him happy about all these new subjects that he was learning about. You gave him that happiness.
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It made his life that much better over the last couple of years of his life. I can't thank you enough for everything that you continue to do. There's so much bad in this world right now and people are hardly operating at their best, but you continue to do something, uh, worthwhile and worth making something worth learning.
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So thank you for making the life of Ziggy Bombock a little brighter towards his end. And that is from Mike. And he sent me a picture of Ziggy and, uh, I read the obituary. I looked it up and, uh, Ziggy seemed like a great, great guy. And, uh, I had to zen out to reading this so I wouldn't cry. I have cried every time.
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That's right. In this case, great judgment. And RIP Ziggy. You sound like a great guy.
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But the one that we kind of identify with, it's kind of been used most from Pali, which is a Middle Indo-Aryan liturgical language from the early branches of Buddhism. Yeah. It's a lot to take in.
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That's right. And it kind of more accurately is translated as memory of the present, which I think is a really kind of a cool way to look at mindfulness.
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Yeah, I mean, I think it's very, very natural for a human to seek out and contemplate and think about the things that feel good and please them. And to try and stuff down and get rid of and avoid things that either hurt, literally hurt, or emotionally hurt or things that are painful or unpleasant. And boy, that is a tough thing to overcome, my friend.
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Just the condition of being human makes that very difficult.
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born and reborn and reborn again well you my friend have just spoken about the noble truths in part because craving is the cause of suffering is the second noble truth and to cease that craving will bring about the ceasing of that suffering which is the third noble truth and basically experiencing the moment without and everything about the moment without judgment is sort of the goal.
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And, you know, for modern, you know, we're going to talk a lot about sort of the beginnings of mindfulness and kind of how it's become kind of a hip thing to do here in the United States, starting in about the 1970s and on, and especially today. Yeah. But we're kind of talking in American modern terms about stress and de-stressing.
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And the Buddhists have a term for that, which is dukkha, D-U-K-K-H-A. And that is, you know, again, to avoid or destroy something that we don't like. And what we usually don't like is something that's going to put a stress on us.
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You ain't kidding. And the lack of judgment is a big, big part of all of this. And we're going to talk quite a bit here and there about Jon Kabat-Zinn, who is easy, far and away the sort of leader of the modern American mindfulness movement in a lot of different ways. And we'll get to him in more detail later. But he says that awareness that arises through paying attention on purpose –
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And that's another big part of it. It's a very purposeful practice. Yeah. But not meditation, which we'll get to that as well, because meditation is a true physical practice and mental practice, whereas mindfulness is more of a state of being that you're trying to get to. Right. But he says on purpose in the present moment and non-judgmentally.
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They always have to kind of hammer home the lack of judgment being a key part.
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Strip it of all the religion. Yeah. And maybe we can sell it to Americans.
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Yeah, and it's not anything that the Buddhists – had a corner on. They just probably did it better because all different kinds of religions throughout antiquity had you know, chanting or some kind of mindfulness practice, maybe prayers or through songs or dance. You know, that kind of thing has been around as long as people have been practicing religion.
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So the Buddhists did not invent it, but I think they got it fairly right.
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It sounds great. I'm going to breathe in the meantime.
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Yeah, I mean, I haven't had one since I was a kid, probably. Coke works, too. Yeah. Coke floats good, too. Root beer floats are the thing, though. I think you're right. And then this was, for me, the fact of the show. I did not know about this. Religious criticism back then, they didn't like you eating things that were so rich in like a gluttonous, I guess. They thought it was sinful.
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Yeah, well, yeah. On Sundays, that is. And so in response, they took out the carbonated water or the root beer or whatever and made a sundae. And that's why we called it a sundae originally.
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And the other cool thing, too, was during World War II, apparently, it was the armed forces were all trying to outstep one another in providing ice cream to the troops in new and exciting ways because it was such a morale booster, of course, to get ice cream when you're at war. Right. You know, a little taste of home. And I think, was it the Navy that had the ship?
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Yeah, and Ed points out that during the Depression, everything kind of slowed down that was a non-essential, including ice cream. But it never went away. And through the years, it's pretty much gained in popularity. I think in the 70s is when you started to see a little more health-conscious efforts.
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Like the new stuff that's really like from the Greek yogurt, you know? Oh, yeah. That's tangy. Changes everything. Not like, I think this can't be yogurt growing up. Was that even yogurt? That was just like soft serve ice cream, wasn't it?
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TCBY? We heard it was this can't be yogurt. Huh. Maybe it was different, I wonder. It had to be the same. Yeah, TCBY. Yeah.
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I don't know what it was. I think it's still around. It had to be yogurt because they couldn't call it that. But it wasn't definitely not the tangy stuff that you see like at Pinkberry and stuff like that. Oh, it's so good.
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Oh, my friend, ice cream is a year-round treat for me.
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All right. Well, we'll get to the science of ice cream, which is decidedly less yummy sounding right after these messages.
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Sure. I know. I had some last night. Oh, yeah? What'd you have? We're going to buzz market a lot, probably.
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So, buddy, you said that all of that stuff is frozen dairy treats. Right. But not necessarily ice cream because there's a definition, correct?
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Yeah, because frozen yogurt isn't just yogurt that they freeze, which I never knew. It's actually during the ice cream making process, they'll put in the yogurt cultures to make it frozen yogurt.
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Agreed. Which is why every time I just throw the yogurt in the freezer, it doesn't taste anything like I want it to taste.
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Yeah. Can't have too much of it, though, because I got the lactose issues.
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It's gross. The USDA actually has an ingredient standard for it to be labeled ice cream, which has to be at least 10% milk fat and a minimum of 6% nonfat milk solids. Like casings. And a gallon has to weigh 4.5 pounds.
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Yeah, and the reason they have the minimum poundage is because, as we mentioned earlier— Lighter ice cream is generally cheaper because it means there's just more air whipped in there. And that's why a Ben and Jerry's pint is like a brick in your stomach.
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Yeah, it's pretty sad. That's self-hate. Yeah, ice cream followed by a large glass of milk. Right? No, just kidding.
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That's right. In more ways than one. Yeah. So milk fat, there is a range of milk fat you can use. Premium ice creams max out at about 16%. at the most, but generally they're about 14%. And ice cream in general is a minimum of about 10%. And butterfat, which is another name for it, sounds so great. Both of them sound great. Butterfat makes it taste good. It makes it creamier and richer.
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But it's interesting that they found that 16% is about as high as you want to go, though. It's not like, oh, just make it 50% because that would be even better. You'd just vomit after every bite. Well, you would, and people, they point out, or Ed points out, people wouldn't eat as much because it is so rich and it is so calorie rich as well.
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And so they found that perfect combination of enough to make you plow through that pint and want to get another one the next night.
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And I think that's a custard if you use the egg yolk, right?
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I thought it was higher than that. Yeah. Frozen custard is at least 1.4% egg yolk solids. Okay. So that's even worse for you.
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Yeah, I mean, it's not like I don't have lactose issues such that any kind of milk product really is just if I overdose on it. Like if I have a bunch of like pizza and ice cream or something.
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Yeah, I've got an ice cream machine, which when I looked at the process of making ice cream, it's pretty much what goes on in this little thing.
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Like you freeze the canister, which I found out the hard way. That's how you do it. Right. Because I was like, man, it's not getting solid.
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Yeah, I had no idea. Like you just used it at room temperature? At room temperature. How long did you try that for? Oh, it spun for quite a while before I realized what was going on.
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Yeah, so you freeze the thing, and then the canister actually spins, and they have like a blade in there that disrupts it, introduces the air bubbles, which is key to making ice cream nice and rich and creamy. And it also acts as a scraper to keep ice from forming, which is exactly what happens in big factories. It's pretty much the same process.
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So you've got that, right? Yeah. Yeah. And the ammonia tubes, we should point out, there's no ammonia. It's just making the tube cold. Right.
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We covered a little bit within the salt episode, but not like super in-depth.
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Just that simple little thing is the magic that makes it happen.
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Yeah, we had an electric ice cream maker growing up that was the same as the Johnson crank version, but you just plug it in.
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Not like the new one that I have today, which is much different.
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Yeah, definitely plug in. And you got to freeze that thing, apparently. That's so funny. But my church, one of my favorite memories growing up is my church would have ice cream socials where everybody would bring their own homemade ice creams.
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And there would just be a table with like 30 of those steel containers, you know, that people just take it right out of the old, you know, rock salt bin and just set it on the table.
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And you would just go berserk, you know, as a child.
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And you probably had to do it, right? Because the parents are always like, that's the fun part.
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Exactly. I just don't want it living next door to me. I can do a pint of ice cream, though. Or is it the half pint? The Ben & Jerry's little one?
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Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah, of course we did in Atlanta. But I remember when I saw that rock salt come out, it was a special evening at the Bryan house. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I mentioned the little paddle. It's called a dasher, which is the blade inside the tube. And this is if you're in an ice cream factory. And like we said, it whips it up, introducing those air bubbles.
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And that's what gives it the structure. And like I said, also prevents the ice crystals, larger ice crystals from forming because you don't want that. No. You want it cold, but you don't want ice.
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Yeah, the hard freeze. Yeah. And that's basically all it is, is you take that soft-serve and you have to get it down super low, at least to zero degrees Fahrenheit. But when you're in an ice cream factory, you're going to pump it down even lower because you're going to be shipping it and packaging it and you want it to stay nice and hard throughout that whole process. Yeah. And...
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Yeah, and that's how you do it. That's pretty much it.
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It's a great, great thing that everyone should try.
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It's a pint? The little, yeah. Not the little baby one. That's just like a fistful. I'm not seven. Yeah, right. I think it's a pint is what they sell them at. Yeah, I can do a pint of like the Chubby Hubby. That's my old favorite.
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Yeah, and I don't think we mentioned that it's pasteurized along the way too, which is an important step. Pasteurization keeps you from getting salmonella.
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And if you're making your own mix at home, you can even do that yourself with a double boiler.
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All right, buddy. We will finish this out with some stats and the like, but first we should talk about overrun because that's an important part of ice cream because when you're making ice cream, there's going to be an increase in volume as you go because you're whipping all that air into it.
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And that increase is called overrun. Right. And it's indicated by a percentage.
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Which is good. But what the pros shoot for, like... Our friends at Blue Bell with the great, great commercials.
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Yeah, it is really good. So if you are a professional ice creamier, you might have as much as 100% overrun, but the premium ice creams are more dense, so they have less overrun.
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Yeah, because the air, like we said, is what gives it the structure that you appreciate and, you know, it's familiar. Right. You get some chewy ice cream, it's no good.
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Yeah, I'm not a cone guy. Are you? Yes. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. So when you go to, like, you go out, you get it in the cone every time? No. Just sometimes? Yes. Do you get the waffle cone? No.
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I think they're delicious. I might start getting a cone every now and then.
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Yeah, I don't like mint. Crazy. I don't like coconut. Crazy. My favorite is the Chubby Hubby, and then they have the limited runs. Yeah. They have one out now called Candy Bar Pie.
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Yeah, I mean, if you're at a World's Fair, there's going to be some waffling going on, some waffle making.
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Right. Yeah, and he also invented the ice cream, a you screamer, a we all screamer, but ice creamer. Nice. I think he was the first one to coin that term.
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Yeah, but he actually filed a patent for the cone-making machine.
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Yeah, so he generally gets credited with the invention of the ice cream cone, although just because you patent the machine doesn't necessarily mean that you were the first person who thought of the cone.
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Oh, really? Yeah. Well, and we also didn't mention Jacob Fusel. We'd probably need to mention that guy because he was the first – He opened the first wholesale manufacturing operation in the United States in Baltimore.
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And he, like some of the greatest success stories in business, sort of got into it by accident because he was just a dairy guy who had too much cream and was like, well, I guess I can try this ice cream thing out. And before you know it, he was selling more ice cream than he was anything else.
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In ice creamery? Yes. Ah, I thought you were going to say, like, no, they were architects.
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Well, I went to their website to look at some of their facts, and I think they said they started their initial business with like $4,000.
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Well, either way, that's cheap. I know. You know?
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Yeah, it's been a while since we've had a stat run. The majority of U.S. ice cream and frozen dessert manufacturers have been in business for more than 50 years, and many are still family-owned. This is why you see, like, the blue bells and stuff like that. Right. You know? There's not a lot of upstarts. Like, you know, like extreme ice cream. Right, made with Mountain Dew, Code Red. Oh, God. U.S.
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It's ridiculous. I don't know. It's got nougat in it. It doesn't taste like a specific candy bar, though. It's not like they're trying to be, like, a Snickers ice cream sneakily. It just tastes, it's just delicious. Nice.
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dairy approximates, and this was a few years ago, 20 quarts per capita.
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No, produced. Oh, wow. Yeah, they produce 20 quarts per capita.
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Apparently, Asia, the Caribbean, Mexico, and Latin America all import ice cream as well to a large degree.
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And... the most popular flavor is still vanilla, which I had to explain to Emily was a real flavor. She thinks it's an absence of all flavors.
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Like white, yeah. I was like, no, vanilla's a thing. Yeah. And some people love it. Vanilla's still good. She thinks it's a waste of calories to eat anything that's just plain vanilla.
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Oh, yeah. I agree. Like super creamy, like vanilla bean. Mm-hmm. Yummy. Yeah. And then chocolate chip mint and cookies and cream followed. as the next most popular. I'm surprised plain chocolate is not on the list.
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Yeah. Dude. I don't eat dessert in restaurants. It's so good. Yeah, I'm going to have to start eating dessert in restaurants.
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I'm going to call this first of two scientific method emails. So you're going to hear one here and then one in the next one. Awesome. Because these are great. I was super proud of that one. And we got a lot of kudos from scientists, which is always nice. Hey, guys. My name is Danny. I'm 23 and recently graduated with a degree from the University of Michigan.
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in astronomy and physics, now work at an aerospace company in L.A. on a space mission concept called the Starshade. Way to go, Danny. I know. The Starshade is a really awesome piece of tech that will allow us to image planets around other stars and ultimately search for life outside of our solar system. I'm writing because I was just listening to the podcast on the scientific method.
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And as someone whose job regularly involves the scientific method, I want to express my appreciation for you guys recording such a great discussion on the subject. It's extremely important to give the public the opportunity to learn about science. I think that your podcast is a great vehicle by which this is achieved. So thanks.
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They have it here on the west side over by Star Provisions.
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I remember once in the show, you guys let it slip that you get a few hundred emails a week. So statistically speaking, I'm twice as likely to become a millionaire than to get my email read on the show.
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Oh, he totally was. And it worked. But in the case that some miracle happens and you do read it, I'd love if you could plug the astrophysics blog my friends and I have. It's called Astrophysics Unleashed and can be found online. online at astrophysics-unleashed.tumblr.com. And it's a place where we seek to expose the beauty hidden within astronomy and modern science.
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It's a great place for the inquiring mind to find food for thought or to ask questions. So that is from Danny, and he said, I want to shout out to Jerry, J-E-R-I, but I was afraid I'd spell her name wrong. Hopefully that is right. Tell her that I have no idea what she's like at all, but I'd be willing to bet that she's really cool.
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Well, and here's a spoiler. The other scientist said the exact same thing about spelling her name wrong, and he spelled it right.
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But did they have candy and all that stuff? Or is it just an ice cream shop?
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Yeah, growing up in Atlanta, they had something called Farrell's, which was... I remember Farrell's. Oh, did they have those?
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Just like old school ice cream parlor, scaring the bejesus out of children everywhere. Yeah.
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Man, let's just talk about, let's just not even do this. Let's just talk about ice cream we love. I like this flavor. I like this flavor. Everyone's starving right now for it, though. I guarantee it with that intro.
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like some of them that have a little cayenne in the chocolate.
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Where did you find this, by the way? We need to give a good shout. Was that the Dairy Association? Yes.
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Along with things like sherbet and gelato and frozen yogurt. Yeah.
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Yeah, novelties. Exactly. Those are good, too. Well, my friend, it goes back, they say, as far as 2nd century B.C., but they can't pinpoint a definite person or place for sure. They just know that it started popping up in history, like with Alexander the Great. He had flavored ice and snow with honey and nectar.
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Yeah, and that makes sense that that would be the origin of ice cream. It makes me laugh in this thing. They said that Nero and Claudius Caesar would frequently send runners to the mountains for snow. Right. That just seems like a very Roman emperor thing to do. Like, I'd like something cold and sweet. Go. Right. And like three hours later, they'd come back, you know, half dead. Yeah.
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But they would flavor those with fruits and juices, and that was sort of another part of the beginning of ice cream.
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Yeah, in England, they were big on what they called cream ice. Yeah. Because England, you've got to say it's slightly funny. Or they would probably call it proper.
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No, but there probably was. There would be. And Catherine DiMedici, who we mentioned in the episode... Oh, Nostradamus. Nostradamus episode. That's right. She was big on it. She was the wife of Henry II. And back then, though, it was, you know, in the 1500s, in the 16th century, it was only like royalty because ice was, you know, they didn't have freezers and they didn't have ice machines.
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You needed a guy to go run up to the mountain and bring it down.
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I screama, you screama, we all screama for How Ice Cream Works, the great episode celebrating the best dessert treat, in all honesty. I mean, there's just nothing better than ice cream. This is from February 5th, 2015.
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Yeah, that's a good way of saying it. In the United States, the first time they found it in print was in a letter in 1744 by a guest of the governor of Maryland, William Bladen. And there was an ad in 1777, May 12th, the New York Gazette for ice cream. So it was for sure for sale to the people back then by that time.
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I imagine that's a lot of money. Yeah, but he had guests, and he may have shared it with his staff.
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That doesn't seem like that much. Oh, that's a lot. Yeah, that's pretty speedy. Yeah, it is. But hey, that's why he's Joey Chestnut. Plus, don't forget the brain freeze. Oh, yeah.
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Or just light a match and hold that under the roof of your mouth.
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Interesting. I don't get brain freeze because I think as an adult you know how not to wolf it down like that.
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So like you said, until around 1800, it was mostly for the upper class. But then, like everything else in industry in America around that time, manufacturing became more widespread and cheaper, and all of a sudden you had... warehouses that were big freezers, and you had shipping. You could ship things cold and frozen. Right, so you had the manufacturing aspect in place.
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I don't eat ice cream much anymore because it disagrees with my body, but boy, every now and then, I get one of those pints, get a little chubby hubby if you can find it, throw it down your throat, and suffer the consequences.
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Yeah, homogenizer machines, electric power, mechanical refrigeration, basically.
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Well, you mentioned take-home ice cream being a big deal as far as it's spreading. I do have a little modern stat released from a few years ago. That is still the biggest part of the market. 67% of the overall market is take-home ice cream.
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Yeah, I don't. I can't. It doesn't stick around? No, like, you know, if you're going to get a pint, you might as well just plow through it and be done with it. Right. And then get some a few weeks later. You're not a quitter. No, and I can't just keep like a gallon of ice cream in the house.
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You're one of them. I don't keep a gallon of ice cream in my house. Yeah, but you got willpower to a large degree, I think. Yeah, well... You're the guy who quit smoking by just saying... I'm not going to smoke anymore.
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But I do not. So we're now in the 19th century, in the late 1800s. Right. And the professional soda jerk at soda fountain shops pops up, and they make things called, like, root beer floats and Coke floats and soda floats. Right. Which, I haven't had one in a long time. I used to love root beer floats. Yeah. But, um... I don't know why. It's not something I see very much anymore.
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Well, you have to go to the trouble of putting it together. Yourself? Yeah.
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Right. Very well. Under normal circumstances, when you pick up that rod or you pick up that stick, the electrons are staying put no matter what. Right. But we figured out along the way, thanks to the work of all of the people from the Greeks to Faraday to Ben Franklin to your guy with the core puzzle idea. Yeah. JJ, what's his name?
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JJ Core Puzzle. I think it was Thompson. So thanks to the work of all of these people, we figured out how to knock electrons loose. And it's ingenious and simple, but it's also very complex. And it involves the relationship between magnetism and electricity.
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So Chuck, we're talking about knocking electrons loose, which is ultimately the basis of producing electricity.
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And static, you know, you have static and dynamic, and dynamic indicates motion, static indicates motion.
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staying still um and they use that to describe this type of electricity because the electrons don't flow they just sit there and wait for a connection like when you touch something that's charged like a doorknob yeah after you've shuffled with your feet in socks over carpet when you touch that doorknob you're forming that connection and all of a sudden the balance is achieved once more and the electrons flow like you're literally a conductor of electricity in that moment
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Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry's over there. Chuck's wearing his last chance garage hat, which means that all is right with the world.
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Right. So with current electricity, those electrons move. They move along a conductive material. Yeah. Say like copper wire or something like that. That's a hot one. Right. So let's talk about how you produce an electrical current, right? Okay. Let's talk about generators and turbines and all that awesome stuff.
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Right, I think that's what generators are called, why they're called that.
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Right, but you've heard it so many times you take it for granted and it loses its meaning. It's like looking at a word too frequently.
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So what I think Faraday figured out... was that because of this relationship between a magnet and electricity, you can take a magnet and you can move electrons in, say, a conductive material. You can knock the electrons loose, basically, using a magnet.
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You know, if Chuck's not wearing that hat, who knows what's going on? Yeah. I thought I lost this thing. Oh, yeah?
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And you create a flow by flipping the polarity. And you can do this by rotating metal... Right? Yeah. Say like a coiled copper within the two poles of a large magnet. And when you do this, you're reversing polarity all of a sudden.
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And you are knocking the electrons loose in those coils. And the way that you spin the coils very quickly is by... hooking the coils to say a shaft yeah we kind of did this backwards let's start at the beginning you want to okay let's go to niagara falls okay back in uh 18 95 george westinghouse who is nikola tesla's boss which by the way if you want to listen to another really good podcast
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Go listen to that one, the Nikola Tesla one. Remember it was all about the AC-DC war between Tesla and Edison? Yeah. It's a good episode. Killed shocking animals to death. Yeah, it's pretty awful. What a jerk. But in 1895, George Westinghouse set up a hydroelectric power plant along the Niagara Falls.
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And what he did was he had a means of taking the movement of water, which is kinetic energy, The water at the top of the falls has potential energy, and then once it falls over, that potential turns to kinetic energy. Well, Westinghouse set up a turbine to catch this movement of water, right, which is actual energy, and have that movement spin a turbine, a propeller, or a fan.
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Right, the grist mill is. In this case, it's capturing that energy, or it's transferring it, we should say, by converting that kinetic energy from the water into mechanical energy, spinning the turbine. The turbine is connected to that shaft I was talking about where we suddenly changed course.
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And at the end of that shaft, which is now spinning thanks to the turbine, thanks to the movement of the water, is some coiled copper. And that coiled copper is spinning within those two magnets. Yeah, that's the key. Right. And because of that, the electrons are being knocked loose. You have a power line leading from the coiled copper out. And all of a sudden, you have an electric current.
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Like Bruce Springsteen. That's right. How you doing? Great. Chuck? Yes? Let's talk about electricity. Electricity, electricity. I've had the Talking Heads song in my head. Which one? Electricity. Oh, okay. Where all he sees are little dots.
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Right, and then also for thermal power plants, they use nuclear power to create a nuclear reaction to produce heat, or they burn coal to produce heat, and then they use that heat to heat water, and then they use that water to create steam, and then that steam turns a turbine.
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And all it is is you're using that stored energy or that kinetic energy, like over here, to create electricity so that you can transfer it into work down the line. That's right. It's so cool.
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And that whole using water as an analogy for electricity fits very well.
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It's the same with water. Like, you have water pressure that forces the water down the line, right? And with electricity, you have a force that moves electricity and its voltage. Like you said, measured in volts. Yeah. And the electrical current...
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is measured in amps and the amps represent the total number of electrons flowing through any one point of a circuit in any Every second and there's a lot of them and if you have voltage and you add that to Current which is amps you get power which is watts Right, and I think it's multiplied by it.
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But it is. It is a math formula, and the reason why it's a math formula is because they're related. Like, you can flip-flop them, you can adjust them, and that's the whole basis of industrial power transmission, which we'll get to later.
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And a good rule of thumb is the higher the volts, the more dangerous the shock is. Which is why in America, most outlets and homes are 120 volts, where if you touch it, you're going to feel it, but it's probably not going to kill you.
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Right, which is why a European appliance can't be plugged into an American appliance because... You've got to get those adapters. Yeah. So... You were talking about current, which is the number of electrons flowing through a circuit. You have the volts, which is the force or pressure that's pushing them down the line.
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And then you have those two multiplied by one another to create watts, which is power. Yeah. Also, there's another factor to electrical currents. Yeah. And that is resistance. Oh, yeah. We didn't talk about that.
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Well, I mean, everything has a certain level of resistance.
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Yeah. Or glass is another good resistor or insulator. Yeah. And so is rubber.
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But even something is like... as copper wire has a certain amount of resistance. And again, that water flowing analogy comes into place. Like if you pump like some water really, really hard, try to get a lot of water through a very small pipe, it's still not going to come out very high. very fast because you're trying to force too much water through that little pipe. Right.
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So in the exact same way, a thin wire where you're trying to push a lot of amps through and a lot of volts through, it's going to resist. And when you have resistance in an electrical circuit, you lose some of those electrons that are flowing in the form of heat, which is produced by electrons, bumping up against other atoms that aren't sharing their electrons, and that's the result of friction.
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Right, because there's... And the reason they're not going to be flowing any longer is because the positive pole and the negative pole from that circuit are no longer connected. That's right. Another way to look at voltage is that it is the difference between electrons on one side and electrons on another side of a circuit. And remember we talked about nature always wanting balance.
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Oh, yeah, I didn't think there had to be like a, you know, I didn't know it was like the Stones or the Beatles, you know?
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Electrons flow from negative to positive, right? Right? That's right. And as they flow, the reason they're flowing, the whole reason they're moving at all is because there are not as many electrons on the positive side as there are on the negative side.
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So they want to leave the negative side to go achieve balance on the positive side and ultimately make whatever circuit it's traveling neutral. Yeah. You stick something in that circuit, and as those electrons are moving from the negative side to the positive side, because, again, electricity is just the flow of electrons. Yeah. You can convert that movement into productive work.
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Yeah, mechanical energy. Right, and anything you attach onto a circuit to exploit that flow of electrons for work is called a load.
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Right. And there's all sorts of things you can do by attaching a load to a circuit, like a light bulb. A light bulb basically uses that electricity flow to flow into a resistant filament, very thin wire, that purposely resists that flow of electricity, generating heat and in turn heating up to produce light. That's how a light bulb works.
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You can also recharge batteries, which go in and force electrons back into the negative position so that the batteries recharge and those electrons are ready to flow again once you connect the circuit. There's also appliances that use resistors to produce heat, like a hairdryer or a toaster. There's all sorts of stuff you can do to...
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connect into the circuit but it's all the same whether it's a battery or a toaster or a whole house if you want to look at it that way it's you're plugging a load onto an electrical circuit and exploiting the flow of electrons yeah and i kind of misspoke a minute ago when i said it it's creating the mechanical energy you need a motor to actually do that so yeah if you have a electric drill
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Right. And an electric motor is probably the best example of how you're converting energy from one form to another and then reconverting it. Because an electric motor is basically a generator in reverse. And so you use that mechanical energy, the spinning of the turbine down the line, and convert it in your electric drill back into mechanical energy to spin the drill.
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And in between is that flow of electrons that's causing the whole thing or that's carrying that energy from point a to point b is
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Well, plus the electric company came on after Sesame Street, I think.
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There's one other thing. If you look at a plug that you're plugging an appliance into, because again, you're just attaching a load to that flow of electrons and diverting it through your appliance, and then it goes back on its merry way, right? Yeah. If you look at a plug, sometimes you'll see three prongs. And the third prong, the one on the bottom, seems different from the other ones.
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And then even younger than Sesame Street was Pinwheel, if I remember correctly. That was after your time. Pinwheel was pretty cute. It was like little kids, and then Sesame Street was like little kids. And then electric company was like cool.
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It's round. And that is actually a grounding wire. Yeah, very important. Very, very important. Because as awesome as we've gotten with producing and directing electricity, we can't control the amount of electrons that flow through an outlet down to a single electron. Right. And so there's such a thing as leakage of electrons, which is crazy.
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And there's also electrical buildup that can happen, where if you're not using all of the amps through an appliance, the residual amps can build up and they charge the appliance. And again, as with static electricity, a charge is just sitting there waiting to be neutralized. Yeah. Sometimes through you, which can make it very dangerous.
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To prevent this, they connect the appliance through either that third prong in a plug or through an actual grounding wire to a copper wire that's driven into the ground.
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and that's where the word comes from, ground, you're actually transferring that residual electric energy to the ground, which is basically an infinite reservoir for charge dispersal. To Earth, right?
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Exactly. Same thing with a lightning rod. It's a ground for your entire house so that the lightning doesn't go through your house. It goes through the lightning rod. And the point of all of those is that the earth can take it. Go ahead. Give it as many electrical shocks as you want. It's going to be fine. So we think. And it's very good at just dispersing those charges.
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So that's what grounding comes from. Very important stuff. Yeah.
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More elsewhere. Nice and safe. Right. And then you just plug your appliance into it, and all of a sudden that electrical energy transmits to... Your toaster strudel being warmed. Your Hot Pocket with tainted meats. Wow. Did you hear about that? Yeah. Remember that whole horse meat thing with IKEA the last couple of years?
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It wasn't just IKEA, but they were definitely called out maybe most strongly for it.
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Yeah. It was very childish. I think Raggedy Ann and Andy were in that. Well, at any rate, we've angered enough people now. I know. I have an intro for this one. Great. Okay, you ready? Mm-hmm. About 13.8 billion years ago, a little something called the Big Bang happened, and the universe was created. So says you. So says a lot of people. Yeah. You know, we weren't around. Nobody saw it.
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Seriously, go listen to that podcast. That's a great one.
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They were good. Yeah. Are good. Are they still around? Yeah, man. David Bowie played a pretty mean Tesla. No, I'm not talking about Tesla. I'm talking about ACDC.
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That's why I was really confused for a second. I was more confused about that than I was by any aspect of electricity. I'm like, yeah, man, of course they're around. I was like, and they're Australian? Yeah, no, ACDC's great. And they're still around, huh? Yeah, I think they're putting an album together right now. Good for them. I'll bet it sounds exactly like all the rest. It still rocks.
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And he was alleged to have helped botch the first electrocution by electric chair by a state. Oh, yeah. I don't remember the details of that, but it's definitely in our episode. He exploded the guy. Yeah, he was a real jerk, remember?
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Yeah, just think about it this way. Negative, an electron's negative.
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So in any terminal, that's where all the negative charge is. Bad vibes. And then positive is where the electrons want to be because they're seeking to balance it out and create neutrals so that there's no pole. Good vibes. Yeah. Or at the very least, so-so vibes.
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Which are pretty important, too. But, yeah, I think we kind of came out in the same way on that episode. Yeah, Tesla won. They both kind of won.
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But Tesla was the cooler dude. Although Tesla died penniless in New York in the 1940s. Oh, yeah? And Edison died a rich fat guy.
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And if you leave that heater on for an hour, you've just used 1.2 kilowatt hours, which is how you're billed.
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But it's been detected and it's strongly suspected by scientists that the universe is 13.8 billion years old and that it came from something called the Big Bang, which, by the way, I would love to do an episode on. Yeah, let's do it. Okay. And under the auspices of the Big Bang theory, not the TV show, but the actual theory, at that moment...
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You got anything else? No, don't play around with it. No, don't. Yes, always wear rubber-soled shoes. Because rubber is an insulator. It is. Why? Because it hangs on to its electrons. That's right. The atoms that make up rubber. It's just that simple. If you want to know more about electricity, you can type that word in the search bar at HowStuffWorks.com.
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You can also go on all sorts of kids' science sites and find out more about it, too. And since I said search bar, it's time for Listener Mail.
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Well, if you want to get some sort of shout out, sometimes Chuck Danes too. He's very nice. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.
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All of the energy in the entire universe was created right then. Boom. Bam. Ever since that point, no more energy has been created, and none of that energy has been destroyed. But it changes states. It changes shapes. It can be locked up in different places. It can be transferred from one place to another via some natural ways, like convection, conduction, radiation. Yeah.
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And like I said, it can be stored in stuff. Like it can be stored in your body, right? Fat is potential energy that can be burned and used for energy to carry out work, which is all we're looking to do is work. That's right. We use energy to carry out work, whether it's digging a shovel or lighting a light bulb. That's what energy does. It produces work. Right? Yeah. Okay.
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We figured out along the way that we don't have to wait around for radiation or convection or conduction to do its thing to provide energy because we'd have a lot of waiting to do. We wouldn't be in the computer age right now if it weren't for something called electricity. Yes.
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which is basically how humans have figured out how to harness converting energy from one type of another and then transmitting it a very long distance. Because electricity isn't a primary energy source like the sun or solar radiation or nuclear energy. or even the flow of water, kinetic energy. No, it's created. Yeah, it's a secondary energy source. It's a carrier. That's right.
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So electricity carries energy from one point to another. And if you understand that, you understand the very basis of what we're going to talk about today.
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Like we've figured out how to generate electricity to carry energy to produce work down the line. That's right.
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Yeah, so think about this. If you capture mechanical energy like water spinning a turbine, which we'll talk about, in Niagara Falls, that's not going to do anything to light your light bulb 200 miles away. No, not by itself. No, unless you connect the two. You send the work produced, the energy captured in Niagara Falls down to your light bulb. And that's what we do using electricity.
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Yeah, let's talk about electrons, man. Let's talk about the atom.
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No, and getting zapped because they're messing with static electricity.
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Right, and that amber plays a pretty big role. It's actually amber, the Latin, or I'm sorry, is it Greek? Greek. Greek word for amber is electron. Yeah, with a K.
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That makes it look way heavy metal. So our word electricity is derived from the Greek word for amber from that first experiment with static electricity.
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With an exclamation point and his finger in the air. We should probably differentiate. There's a couple of types of electricity. There's static electricity and then there's current electricity, right?
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And current electricity is what we are able to generate artificially. Static electricity exists in nature, just naturally. And that was the first experiments carried out. Then there's other types of current electricity like lightning. But at this time, when these people are messing with static electricity or saying it's electric for the first time, the concept of electricity was that it was fluid.
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No, they weren't dummies because even Ben Franklin thought it was a fluid. It was the prevailing idea or concept of electricity. And Ben Franklin and a couple of his contemporaries, including a guy named Thomas Francois Dalabard, were studying electricity big time. And it was when they really investigated lightning that our understanding of current electricity started to take shape.
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If he didn't do it, other people did. There were guys who died carrying out that experiment.
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It was definitely carried out. I don't know if Ben Franklin did it or not.
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Yeah, and I think he at least proposed it, the experiment. Yeah.
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Yeah, and the force of these charges is proportional to their product. So if you multiply the charges, they are going to be very strong or cancel one another out or push one another away.
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And would you say like 1897? Yes. So before that time, I guess he didn't understand the electron, but he understood electricity. A guy named Michael Faraday was working on the case. Stud. Yeah. Basically, everybody's like, Ben Franklin, electricity, hand in hand. Really, it's Michael Faraday, who's British, who really came to lay the foundation for electrifying the world.
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He created the first dynamo, which is a generator, which we'll talk about. First electric motor? Yeah. He got electricity, and he explained it to other people very well.
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Hey everybody, it's Josh, and for this week's Select, I've chosen our 2014 episode on electricity. And I chose it as a kind of Casey Kasem-esque special dedication to one of our younger listeners, Charlie Pendergrast, who wrote in with a bunch of good ideas, one of which was electricity.
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Hats off. Top hats off to these guys. Last chance garage hat off. I'm back on. Like, I have trouble understanding it now when it's explained through, like, kids for science websites. I know.
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Well, we should say a Leyden jar is a very primitive capacitor. You use a metal rod in a jar... Like a nail. ...that's sunk into, like, some water, and it can store a charge. Yeah. And I think Ben Franklin's kite experiment attached the kite to, or a rod or something, to a Leyden jar to store the charge to. If that happened. Right. But again, he did make the proposal.
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It's whether or not he carried it out is a good question.
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Yeah, atoms are the building block of matter. That's right. And atom, remember we're always talking about nature loves homeostasis.
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Yes, it does. You've got a balance that nature always seeks. Tries to achieve it. Same with atoms, or atoms are no exception, I should say. Within an atom, you have a nucleus, which is made up of protons and neutrons. Protons are positively charged particles. Neutrons are neutral. And then orbiting that nucleus, making the cool atom symbol, are electrons, and they're negatively charged.
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That's right. And when you have an equal number of protons to electrons, you have a neutral atom.
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They go on rumspringa. Yeah. Yeah, and it depends on the material. And those types of material that have either tightly connected or loosely connected atoms either end up conducting electricity very well or don't conduct electricity very well. So they act as either electrical conductors or electrical insulators.
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Well, rather than just send him a link and being boring, I thought I'd share it as a Select for everybody to enjoy. So, if you enjoy this Select, you can thank Charlie. Thanks, Charlie!
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Selects: Robber Barons!
Yes. We're glad that the railroad exists so we can move these books around easily.
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Have we done one on Reconstruction? No, no, we really need to, though. Totally. I mean, the more I've been reading a lot about that period in history, and yes, we need to definitely do one on that.
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I mean, like, this happened, like, almost overnight. It's astounding how fast this happened. I don't think it even happened this fast in the first Industrial Revolution, you know, the one that started over in Manchester. Like, I think that it's—this is—nothing like this has ever happened in the history of the world as far as I know.
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So— Should we take a break? Oh, sure. Sure. I was just getting revved up. My own economic engine is idling high right now.
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Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuckers Bryant over there. Jerry was just here doing the COVID setup and then got out of the room really quick. Hold her breath for five straight minutes.
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All right, we're back, Charles. I'm feeling much better now that my foot's off the gas. That was just good advice.
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Yeah, totally. It's exactly that kind of migration that you were talking about just a few minutes ago.
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I don't know. I've never read the book, but from what I can tell, no, it didn't work out very well because he is taken advantage of by all manner of bad people like crooked politicians and crooked businessmen and is basically run through the ringer from what I can tell. But I've also seen that that wasn't – it wasn't exactly the best – piece of writing Mark Twain's ever come up with.
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Sure. And this is stuff you should know. That's no David Blaine record, by the way.
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But the thing is that he released this in 1873. Yeah. And this is like at the very beginning of the Gilded Age. So he saw it pretty quickly what was going on. And what he saw was this emergence from a relatively egalitarian society of of a group of ultra mind-bogglingly wealthy people that just rose up from the United States.
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And through, you know, cheating and business acumen and taking advantage of people and overworking people and underpaying people, but also like having a lot of vision and foresight, all these things coming together.
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grabbed control of almost all of the wealth that was being produced by the average American and all of the average Americans put together who had moved to these cities for the promise of better wages, better living than the farm could offer.
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Some people were exploiting that more than other people, and those people came to be known as the robber barons, and they were the linchpin of why people think of the Gilded Age as a rotten part of American history.
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It is nuts, but you're right. It does sound very familiar.
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Wouldn't that be something if Jerry did have a secret life pearl diving? That would be amazing. It would. But we're not talking about Jerry, Chuck. Enough about her. Instead, I propose that we have a nice, pleasant conversation about robber barons.
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Yeah. How about that? So that is what you would call economic inequality, right? And I think the thing is, especially over time, but I get the impression during that age too, like the people who resent that, liberals typically, um, tend to be painted with this brush that says, you're just jealous. You've never made that much money in your life. You probably never will.
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And it sickens you to see somebody else with that money because you don't have it. And it's that second part, that last part about because you don't have it that I think misses the mark. And that even at the time during the Gilded Age, today when people look at inequality, that kind of stuff, a lot of them, I'm sure there are people out there who are just jealous and haters for that reason.
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But a lot of them say, no, no, like that level, that amount of disparity shouldn't exist. Where if there are people who are just genuinely suffering, who are just poor and aren't able to make it, with whatever living they're making, if they exist, then you shouldn't have people who have that much amount of money. And that was a sentiment in the Gilded Age as much too.
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It wasn't like they didn't realize this was going on at the time. The sentiment was very much like it is today, except in the Gilded Age, they did things like form labor unions
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and strike and um and just basically did something about it they didn't take it laying down which is actually criticism that's levied or has been levied in the past against people today yeah and i think there's also a notion that uh the more left-leaning people are anti-success and that's that's not true either it's um
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Yeah, absolutely. I think that, yeah, I think both sides misunderstand each other. Conservatives and liberals misunderstand each other to a debilitating degree these days.
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I don't know about thousands of years, but pretty close to eighth. I'll give you that one. So apparently along the Rhine River, if you wanted to move goods up and down northern Europe, like that was your way to go.
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But unfortunately for you, there were places where the Rhine River like really narrowed with high cliffs and you were easy prey for local nobility who wanted to like set up toll booths basically and said – You need to give me some money if you want to keep going and plying your goods along the Rhine.
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Well, I understand history perfectly and without any delusions or any of my opinions informing my vision of history as well. I think that's what you're known for. Sure.
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Chuck, I've seen every cartoon that ever existed, and I remember each of them perfectly and without any of my opinions coloring my view of them.
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Yeah. Yeah. And at first, from what I could tell, historians, like immediately after, in the few decades after the Gilded Age, which we'll talk about, where the, you know, the age the robber barons worked and operated and lived in, really took it to be like their presence, their existence was one of the worst things ever.
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Yeah, because they actually were like low-level nobility, and they already were well-off, but that didn't prevent them from – You know, trying to take advantage of the merchant class who were just trying to make their way and make a living.
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And that became like a really great description for some of the most successful business tycoons of the 19th century. I think it first popped up in an Atlantic article in 1870. Yeah. Where it didn't directly say that – it didn't say that these guys are the new robber barons, but –
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It said that the old robber barons of the Rhine Valley were actually probably more honest than the new aristocracy of swindling millionaires. Burn. So it's a big, big-time burn. So even in 1870, people were saying, like, this is wrong. There's something, like, really wrong here.
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I mean, this is within just a few years of the Gilded Age really starting to take off, and people had already identified that there were some major issues developing.
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Yeah. It's so weird. It is a little weird to – it is weird. What's even weirder, though, is, like, I believe if we look back, if we zoom out far enough, we see humanity kind of ever going upward, even though there's, like, peaks and valleys in the line. And the line overall is kind of up – moves upward toward something great, I think. Toward perfection? I wasn't, maybe.
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I wasn't alive 10,000 years ago, so who knows? Maybe that was the pinnacle of human existence. I don't know. Yeah, maybe.
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Yeah, so I feel like we have kind of set this up, that the robber barons were ruthless business tycoons. And we're going to start with one of the first ones, Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt, who, for my money, was the OG robber baron.
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Oh, well, that's actually pretty appropriate because he did command a fleet of ships, originally sailboats, originally a sailboat, I think when he was 14, and then steamships to ferry people around New York. I thought there were no steamships. There were by this time. And you know what's ironic? We were talking about steamships and when they were invented.
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The guy who invented steam, Robert Fulton, remember we did a whole episode on steam technology? Yeah, yeah. He had a 30-year monopoly in New York to ferry people using steamships. That's right.
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And ironically, Cornelius Vanderbilt had to overcome that monopoly using ingenuity and his own resourcefulness and eventually was successful in breaking that monopoly just through good business tactics that actually resulted in far lower fares for everyday people and companies. I think just at his first try,
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But over time, there's kind of been a reformation of them, you know, kind of like a revisiting of them that has tried to, to, to, Revive their image or actually make their image possibly better than it ever has been.
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By improving the size of the steam engine and using cheaper anthracite coal, he managed to drop the average ferry price from like $7 to $3 in his first try. That's amazing. Yeah, so I think that's really kind of like instructive though, man. Like think about it. You think of this guy as like a ruthless robber baron, and in many, many ways he was, as we'll see. But he...
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was able to get to that position by outwitting and outsmarting other robber barons. And that was the climate at the time. Like, it's so easy to sit back from this time and just be like, just judge, judge, judge. And it's actually kind of fun, too. It's a great pastime. But you also have to remember at the time, that was the business climate. That's just what it was.
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And if you weren't willing to do that, well, then you were not going to make it in business, which is fine. Like maybe you'd say this is too cutthroat for me. I'm just going to sell out to these guys. And there's nothing wrong with that. But the ones who were left standing are the ones that, you know, history still remembers for better or for worse. Yeah.
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Yeah, I actually ran across— That's one way to look at it. Yeah, that's the conservative way to look at it. And I ran across—
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something i can't remember what it's called but it's basically oh human imperfection did you know that the idea that humans are imperfect and there's really no reason to try to make a perfect society because it will always be imperfect and end in ruin um that that is a a cornerstone a hallmark of conservatism did you know that
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It makes sense. Well, so conservatives are saying that in opposition to all of the liberal efforts to make a perfect society, to have government regulation that says, no, no, we should all have clean water and we should do it at the expense of making corporations clean up the wastewater before they release their waste into the shared common water resources, things like that, right?
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Yeah, and so today when we think of trusts, we think of like, you know, a legal entity that can hold assets. At the time, the word trust meant basically an industry that had been organized where all of the competitors had been folded into one large company. And the market was cornered by this one mega company, General Electric, U.S. Steel. Both of those were Morganized companies.
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And apparently U.S. Steel was the first $1 billion company that ever existed because of that level of consolidation. But then, yeah, when the Sherman Antitrust Act was passed in 1890, that was a clear sign that this was not going to stand much longer. And I think Roosevelt, it was Roosevelt you said, right? Yeah, Teddy. who busted that up.
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And he ran on that and actually went against, he was a Republican, I believe, and he went against the advice of the, you know, the elder statesman in the Republican Party, established himself as a genuine president of the people and helped set himself up for reelection just from that one antitrust act.
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Oh, one more thing, Chuck. Yeah. I'm not toying with you, I swear. So one of the ways that Morgan – one of the reasons he's reviled still – and he did some philanthropy, probably more than he gets credit for, for sure. But one of the reasons he's reviled is because one of the ways he made it so that he could compete with other companies –
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was in sell for lower than cost was by slashing wages, slashing the workforce and increasing productivity of the existing workers, and then just making sure that working conditions, he didn't spend a cent on improving working conditions to make them safe. And that is really not because he amassed a fortune. Some people criticize him for that.
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But it's tactics like that, like becoming a billionaire, basically, on the backs of people who he wouldn't have spent a cent to make sure could stay alive working in his factories. That is the quintessential problem people have always had with Robert Barron. It's that kind of mentality. That's right. Yeah. Now I'm done. All right.
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and that there's this idea that you can mold society into some perfect form, that that's the opposite of human imperfection, that that's like what liberals think, and that that right there is one of the main dividing lines between conservative and liberal. I've been on the planet for almost 44 years now, and I had no idea that it was just that simple, and it really kind of is.
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You've been to one. I've been to the university with you. That's right.
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Is that the one that's... No, maybe I named it wrong. It's the... Oh, the Die Hard song. Yeah, the Die Hard song.
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Nope. So he, like Vanderbilt, is definitely a self-made man, for sure. And I guess he kind of was, he had his fingers in a lot of different pots, kind of like J.P. Morgan at first. And then he turned his attention to steel. Because, again, remember, steel is like basically the foundation for this American economy just blowing up. And he was in Pittsburgh. Sure.
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So his name became synonymous with Steele. And I guess at first, up until about 1892, he had a reputation as being a friend of the worker. And that the workers at Carnegie Steele in Homestead, just across the river from Pittsburgh, were... They felt like, you know, Carnegie would take care of them.
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And they found out the hard way that that was not the case when they went on strike in 1892 during what came to be known as the Homestead Strike, which would result in the death of 10 people, which is not how they planned things to go. And apparently the reason why that happened is because the Pinkertons were called in as strike breakers.
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No, no, I think it was just one. I think the nine were the strikers, yeah.
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But what I read was that the strikers – so the Pinkertons showed up in barges, and they were basically hired on as a private army to protect scab workers and bust the strikeout. But they arrived in barges, and after the initial violence – the striking workers and some of their families surrounded these barges and demanded that the Pinkertons come off the boats. Didn't they burn them?
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So the Pinkertons said, okay, we'll come off if you guarantee our safety. And they said, fine. And the Pinkertons came off and they got burned. beaten by all of the strikers. They just completely went back on their word and then set their barges on fire. I guess the Pinkertons escaped to the factory with their life, and the National Guard was called in to quell the violence.
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Yeah, agreed. I don't know that it's a great word either, but I think that that's – I mean, hey, you're going to argue with the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy? I'm not.
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Right, starting with the Pinkertons and then with the National Guard. And it's like this kind of collusion that is also another huge criticism.
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Like we were saying, the government is known for being like laissez-faire as far as regulation is concerned, but they'll totally send in the National Guard not just to quell violence, but to make sure that the strikebreakers don't attack the scab labor to keep the factory going. And that kind of like government...
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capital collusion at the expense of the workers, there's a longstanding tradition of that being almost universally reviled in America. Over enough of an arc of time, if that keeps up, more and more just everyday Americans start to notice and start to resent it.
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And that apparently is a really good force for social change because Americans don't like that kind of thing after a long enough period of time. Yeah.
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They really have for sure. And he was one of just the all-time great philanthropists in American history for sure. But he still pales in comparison to the all-time top record holder philanthropist, John D. Rockefeller, who is also a robber baron, but he also is far and away America's most prolific and generous philanthropist.
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Speaking of Stanford, did you know that Stanford University was named out and funded? Yeah, a robber baron named Leland Stanford, actually.
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If you do his wealth relative to the total economic output, which is an even larger figure than gross domestic product. I had a feeling it was something like that. His wealth represented 2% of the total economic output of the United States at the time. To have that value today, you would have to be worth about $350 billion. Okay. And I think Jeff Bezos is worth $140 or something like that.
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But the thing is in like – Like John D. Rockefeller was a ruthless, ruthless businessman who put a lot of people out of business, brought a lot of misery and hardship on just small everyday producers of oil, which we'll see. But again, it's really difficult to overstate the impact that his philanthropy has had on the United States. He peaked at 900 million, like you said.
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When he died, he had given away everything but 26 million of that. And he probably felt kind of bad that he had $26 million left because he was a very religious man. And apparently he learned very early on that it was every man's religious duty to make as much money as you possibly can. and then to give away as much money as you possibly can, too.
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Yeah, there's a lot of problems with some of the early histories of universities, as we'll find out in the coming weeks.
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And he apparently lived that even before he was wealthy. When he was still just an average worker, he would give away something like 10% of all of his paychecks. So he was a philanthropist his whole life, for sure. He was still a robber baron, too, though.
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Can you imagine? 90 percent. And the way that he cornered the market was, you know, he did that standard organization kind of thing where he went around and bought it first and then started to turn up the heat on the competition on the holdouts. But one of the ways that he turned up that heat was he colluded with the railroad industry.
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the different railroads in the area who were shipping all this oil to say not only were they going to give him a rebate so he got money back where they wouldn't give money back to other oil shippers just because of, you know, volume. That makes sense. But they also had to get his business. And he had so much business that they would do this.
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The railroads had to tax and added tax on all of his competitors. So they paid an extra 20 to 30 cents a barrel to ship. Not just... paid more than he did because of his rebates. They paid more in addition to that just for not being John D. Rockefeller.
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And then on top of that, to keep him from taking that rebate and going around to other railroads and getting a cheaper rebate and abandoning that railroad. they actually gave him a kickback of that added tax. So his competitors were getting taxed by the railroads, and he was actually getting some of that tax himself too. You just can't possibly compete with that.
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And it put a lot of smaller oil producers and shippers and refiners out of business.
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Also, Spelman, too, which was established to educate freed slaves. Yeah. He bankrolled Spelman for its founding as well.
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Yeah, totally. Remember that? That is one of our better episodes for sure.
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Selects: Robber Barons!
So some of these guys had some terrible quotes, too, that also just made them despised through history. Carnegie said that it's not the man who does the work who gets rich. It's the man who gets other men to do the work.
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which is not a very tasteful thing to say when you're ultra wealthy and breaking strikes with guns. That Jay Gould guy I mentioned, he said that he could hire one half of the workers in America to shoot the other half to death if he wanted to, which is another nice thing to say. And apparently John D. Rockefeller once said competition is a sin. So these guys had some terrible PR.
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Gilded Lily. Isn't that another one, another thing people gild? I don't know.
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And because of that, a lot of people have said like, well, I wonder if some of the ultra wealthy industrialists or innovators or people who basically the billionaires who are leading the world today, are they just like robber barons with better PR and better marketing? Maybe. And apparently, supposedly that's not necessarily the case. And here's why.
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Selects: Robber Barons!
Remember I was saying that like robber barons were kind of being reformed by historians these days? Yes. Especially conservative historians. Well, they point to some like really indisputable things. Like these guys were ruthless and they engaged in horrific anti-competitive kind of anti-capitalist tactics.
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to get that wealth, and they did it on the backs of workers who they took advantage of and didn't pay very well and killed in their workplaces, basically. But the reason that America is still powerful today is because of the work that these guys did, of the industries that they created.
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public schooling came about and was kind of became widespread to prepare people for the jobs that these guys created. And you really can't you can't look away from the fact that some of them were the greatest philanthropists that the country has ever produced to the that flies in the face with kind of the exception of Bill Gates.
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It flies in the face of the people who are around today that that not only are they not great philanthropists necessarily. I'm looking at Steve Jobs, who isn't around anymore, but definitely was not a good philanthropist in his life. He is now his family is, but he wasn't when he was alive.
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that's a big, big mark against people who have control of significant portions of the wealth in America today.
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Oh, totally. You nailed it. And I said, what about breakfast at Tiffany's?
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But also even more than that, those guys today, they're presiding over a decline, a decline in wages, a decline in living conditions, whereas these guys, these captains of industry and the robber barons from the 19th century, they were presiding over a rise, like an improvement in the way that America lived today. and the standard of living.
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Kind of the polar opposite, even though the inequality is roughly the same. Very interesting. I think so, too. I also wonder, though, too, if this inequality will usher in a second progressive era, which it seems like it has all of the markings to do that. Maybe so. We need to do a progressive era episode, too, sometime, okay? Deal.
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All right, well, since you said deal, Chuck, I think that's time for a listener mail, huh?
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That is a great name, Jack. Great job, great name, great email from a great guy, I assume. Sounds like a great guy. If you want to show off what a great person you are, you can email us yourself like Jack Glick did. Man, what a great name. You can wrap it up, spank it on the bottom, and send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.
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Selects: Robber Barons!
Oh, gotcha. But I think it's so awful, it, like, comes out on the other side as just plain old awful to me. Okay. So, yeah, that's the idea of the Gilded Age, that it looked great on the outside, but on the inside it wasn't so great. But when was this?
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So this was the second half of the 19th century, basically, from pretty much the end of the Civil War up until the first decade of the 20th century.
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And it was characterized by... a huge, massive shift in the American economy where I saw somewhere that at some point in the 1860s to some point in the early 1880s, in about 15 years, the American economy doubled dramatically. doubled in size in 15 years. That's how massive it was, and that's how fast it happened.
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And what it was was a transition from an agrarian society to an industrial society, and it happened virtually overnight as far as history goes.
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Right. So that kind of raises something that I saw is that the idea that it's kind of like a myth of the laissez-faire government during this era. They were definitely laissez-faire when it comes to regulation and letting corporatists run roughshod over labor.
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But they were anything but hands-off when it came to corporate welfare and political entrepreneurship and helping out the wealthy class at the expense of the people in general. So on one hand, they were laissez-faire. On the other, they were not.
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Right, exactly. And what's crazy, like, it was a dog-eat-dog economy. Yeah. It was just nuts how it happened. And there was a lot of, like, learning on the fly. And the learning curve was extremely steep. Yeah. Because, I mean, this was just basically a country of farmers who had been, you know, looked down upon by Europe for a century or more. And they all of a sudden were captains of industry.
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Selects: Robber Barons!
And the most ruthless among them were the ones that rose to the top. Because, like you're saying, there was no rules. There was no regulation. There weren't any standards established. of business, they were all figuring it out as they were going along.
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And they went immediately to the worst impulses that capitalism can raise in a person when you're in pursuit of as much possible wealth as you can get. And there's plenty of it to be had. And then, like you're saying, not only did the federal government not get involved, they weren't equipped to get involved. Because at that point, most of the government was focused on local stuff.
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And now all of a sudden, as the United States is truly becoming a continent-wide nation, the federal government is kind of lagging behind to catch up. It wouldn't really begin to catch up in the progressive era. And some would say that the pendulum swung the exact opposite way to the exact opposite extreme direction that it had during the Gilded Age.
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Yeah, not only could you get it to where you wanted to go, you could do it exponentially cheaper than it used to be over land or, say, using canals, and then also way faster, too. So now if you were making, like, really great armchairs in Cincinnati, like you were saying, like, not only did you have the town, they're just known for it. That's their mascot, I believe, of the baseball team.
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Selects: Robber Barons!
Hey everybody, it's me, Josh, and for this week's Select, I've chosen our July 2020 episode on robber barons. It turns out that today's billionaires and leaders of industry bear some resemblance to the robber barons of the Gilded Age, but there are some big differences.
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Selects: Robber Barons!
Yeah, the sitters. Right. Not only did you have the town of Cincinnati and maybe some other regional parts of Ohio as your market, you now had the entire country to supply with chairs. And that happened at a really great time, the steel coming along and building the railroads, because... The United States economic engine was kind of idling at a really high RPM for a little while before this.
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Selects: Robber Barons!
Apparently, the War of 1812 caused the United States to kind of stop relying on Europe and turn inward and become much more self-reliant than it had been before. So it started to exploit more industry and resources rather than rely on imports from Europe. That was a big one. And then the Civil War happened. brought a lot of factories online in the north that hadn't been there before.
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And so when the Civil War ended, these factories were all ready to go. And with the abundance of plentiful steel, that engine got put into gear, and it just kind of took off like a rocket.
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Selects: Robber Barons!
No, no. One of the things I read about that's actually a mark in favor of the Gilded Age being actually a good thing for America is that people, everyday people, were super involved in politics and the political process and agitating for what they wanted.
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And so if there were people who were definitely in favor of this kind of just taking off like a rocket, knitting the country together, that kind of stuff, nationalization— then there was definitely opposition parties to that too who saw the problems with it.
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But the cool thing is that everybody was involved and everybody was like they cared about the direction the country was going rather than just sitting back and being like, well, nothing we can do about it.
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That is not what they sound like in Cincinnati. Is that not a Cincinnati accent?
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Selects: Robber Barons!
Namely, today's billionaires are kind of terrible at philanthropy, and the robber barons of the last century were far less preoccupied with outer space. Hope you enjoy this episode. It's a pretty good one.
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Selects: Robber Barons!
I don't know. I don't know. I haven't seen that one. Some of the things that I saw were one of the big fights was over currency and whether it should remain on the gold standard or whether it should be easy money, which of course the, so the farmers wanted, I think they wanted easy money.
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I can't remember who wanted to stay on the gold standard and others wanted, you know, basically to leave the gold standard and make money a lot more easy to come by.
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That was easy money. Man, that is a tawdry movie. It was, wasn't it? Yeah. It was good, though. Yeah. Hey, even the worst Dangerfield movie is still pretty great. Agreed. And on that point, real quick, I'm sorry. I know we don't like to go off on tangents very often, but I have been watching— Happy Days and Reverend Shirley lately. Man, that is some comfort food, isn't it? Dude, they are.
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But not only that, it's not like junk food, though. They're like well-written, well-acted, well-directed TV shows. It's Gary Marshall. It's not at all like throwaway or disposable. It doesn't rely on like special effects or anything like that. It's just good stuff, man.
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Yeah, you pre-order it and you can go and upload your receipt at stuffyoushouldreadbooks.com. And then there's like a little thing that says like get your pre-order gift and you upload a picture of your receipt and they mail it to you. And you will be very happy with it because it's pretty awesome.
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Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
He busted Bugs once because Bugs had tears coming out of the outside corners of his eyes, like a freakazoid, rather than the inside corners.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
So grab a cup of tea, a nice little blanket, and enjoy this cozy little episode.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
No, no, I mean specifically with the outside of the eye thing. But yeah, no, I'm sure there are plenty that I missed.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
I knew where the tears came from.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Sure. There was rarely a grand finale where they would be pressed to death in front of a crowd. Nah.
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So, I mean, that's it. Like, bing, bang, boom. That was when you started on page one of an Agatha Christie novel. You knew exactly how everything was going to play out. And then one of the other things is because this thing was so formulaic, there was also room for the author to kind of play with you, the reader.
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And in using things like bluffs and red herrings.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
I think are basically the same thing. But the idea is that so the author, in this case, Agatha Christie, would say something like, you know, early on in the book, a suspect would come running out of the house looking shaken and pale. And you, the reader, would be like, well, that's just way too obvious.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
She's not going to name, she's not going to point out who the murderer is at the beginning of the book. So I can disregard that person or this very obvious clue or something like that. That was just kind of part of the interplay between author and reader. But then it could go even deeper to where she would say something like, well, I know that you think that this is too obvious.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
So I'm going to actually make this the actual murderer, which she did in some cases, which was like a double bluff. Apparently, you could just keep going on and on and on. But it was this kind of wrestling match or maybe slap fight between Agatha Christie and you, her reader, which made the whole thing all the more delightful.
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Yeah, and for some reason, either it was the time or maybe because of her, I'm not sure. It was kind of a chicken or the egg thing, but she happened to write about stuff that a lot of people wanted to read about, these small stories. you know, English villages and, you know, quaint mannerisms of the upper middle and upper class English society set in this period of time.
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Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there. And this is Stuff You Should Know. I don't know if we're going to be able to get used to Jerry being around again. Is she fired? I don't think so. She may have fired herself, though. I don't think so. I have better things to do than hang out with you, cool cats and kittens.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
And for some reason, it just captured everybody's attention. And apparently, when she started expanding, I think after World War II, to some slightly more exotic locales like Egypt or Mesopotamia, you know, for like Death on the Nile was a very famous one during this time, or the Orient Express, that really catapulted her into superstardom, international superstardom too.
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Yeah, I'm not sure either. Nothing that I'm familiar with, I can say.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
No, and that's something like if you're not really familiar with Agatha Christie and you just kind of look her up in passing, one of the things you'll be confronted with is that a lot of people, a lot of critics say she was a hack. And what they're talking about is that formula that she followed to almost like a – a soullessly rational degree. Like, that was the formula. That's what she followed.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
But that really misses, like, the fact that she had a really great eye for detail in the dialogue, like you were saying. Like, she was a good writer, and she could just crank work out. I think during the decade of the 20s, she wrote a book a year. It might have even become more prolific later on in the 30s and 40s, too.
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Yeah, go fly it with extreme prejudice.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
I think so, man. We'll come back and talk about her life. Great.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Okay, Chuck, so Agatha Christie was born in 1890 in England, in Devonshire, in Torquay, which I always want to say Tanqueray, Devonshire. Sure. And it's in the southwest of England, so Torquay is kind of like our, or Devonshire is like our Arizona, basically. That's my impression.
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Right, which stalks the moors. That's right. And she was one of three kids, and I think her older brother and sister were both at least a decade older than her. So she had like a very solitary childhood, which appears to have made her fairly happy. She didn't go to school.
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She was raised by governesses and educated by governesses, spent a lot of time reading, and just hung out around her family's estate.
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Yes. There are people doing that very thing right now, Chuck, and you have just mocked their existence.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Right, but she was a very, very shy person. The novelist Joan Nakasella says that even as an adult, she was so shy that sometimes she wouldn't go into shops because she would have to interact with the shopkeeper. She was a novelist.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
You have never met Philip Roth, apparently.
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Right. Go play some pickup basketball and maybe volunteer at the local food bank.
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Yeah, and, you know, I think not only fits the mold, the more I learn about her, she made the mold.
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Like, basically everything we take for granted as far as writing and mystery writing goes, like, she basically made it up. It's pretty impressive stuff.
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Yeah, I know. Jerry's not a fan.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Or a listener. So I have a question for you, Chuck.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Yeah, she was rejected out of hand. And apparently also she'd started writing because her sister told her that she probably wouldn't be able to write a mystery novel, which I love. So she did. She wrote the – what was it? Snow on what?
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Snow Upon the Desert, and she was very young then. And in between the time she wrote Snow Upon the Desert and The Mysterious Affair at Stiles, which would be her first published book, I believe, she wedged a lot of life in there in the form of getting married to a guy named Archibald Archie Christie.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
And one of the things about Agatha Christie is that she wasn't a born writer, even though she did write As a younger person, like you were saying, she just didn't want to be a writer as a kid. And she ended up writing really seriously after she and Archie Christie got married because Archie Christie wasn't particularly wealthy and couldn't necessarily care for her himself.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
So she started writing to make money, which some people suspect is the reason she got into mystery writing in the first place because it was a very, very popular genre even then.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
So she had the skills to pay the bills, it turns out.
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No. No, don't be ridiculous. Chuck, have you ever met Agatha Christie?
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
which is kind of cool and ghoulish, you know. She's like, how exactly would a person die from this bottle that I'm holding? So, yeah, and apparently most of the deaths in her books are poisonings. And like you were saying, like you very rarely see the person die. They just come upon the body. And most of the time it's a poisoned body. Sometimes there was violence visited upon them.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
But for the most part, it's a body that was found poisoned to death. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Right, right, yeah. So poisoning is what she went with typically. It's another example also, Chuck, I think of like her writing what she knew too.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Or at least writing what interested her. And she wrote in, I believe, 1920, right? No, during World War I. So while she was working at the dispensary and Archie was off flying in France, I believe, she wrote The Mysterious Affair at Stiles. And it was – that's the one I started reading, and I don't understand how it was rejected at first, but –
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
It's a really interesting book just right out of the gate in that it pulls you right into this little country English estate and all of the people on it. And you realize just after a couple of pages that you're already invested in them, which is pretty amazing. And this is like not her first book, but it was her first serious work that wasn't published immediately. It wasn't published until 1920.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Oh, really? Do you have much of a memory of that encounter?
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
And I think even after it was published, it wasn't an immediate catapult to success for her. But it was a remarkable first book to be published.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Yeah, he was also a well-known dandy who was very vain about his appearance. And he apparently said in one of the later books that he plays up his foreignness and his dandiness to disarm suspects when he's interrogating them to make them take him less seriously than they otherwise might.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
You cannot. I appreciate you not doing that.
Stuff You Should Know
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Oh, wow. That's got to be worth some money.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
No, not yet. Again, she really catapulted later on because she moved to some of these more exotic locales. But one of the things that cemented her legend as a mystery writer, in addition to all of the work she did, in addition to her prolificness and her extreme talent at this formula that she had worked out, was what still today is considered an unsolved mystery.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Yeah. Do you still have that?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
In fact, it was featured on a 1994 episode of Unsolved Mysteries, which I just randomly happened to see recently. And she disappeared. There's a whole subplot to Agatha Christie's life that was really surprising, especially compared to how boring and normal and just kind of plodding with D's instead of T's, her normal life was.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
The fact that she has this grand mystery plunked down in the middle of it is pretty impressive.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
No, and her car wasn't just near the rock quarry. According to some reports, like one of the wheels is hanging over the edge of this cliff.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Didn't you say once that your brother has like a copy of number one Superman or something nuts like that?
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
I thought he has something, some valuable comic book. No. Huh.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
I must be confusing you with my other co-host Chuck.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
I got you. Well, having met Agatha Christie when you were a kid, I feel like you'll probably have a lot to bring to this one. I have never met her still to this day. Probably never will. And I have read a couple of her things and seen a couple of movies based on her stuff, but I would never consider myself like a... a rabid Agatha Christie fan, but I do appreciate her work a lot.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
You picked this one. Why?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Without any notice given to her, she didn't know this was going on at all. Yeah. They just were like, I don't think the Americans are going to go for this. The Brits can barely stand it. The Americans definitely aren't going to take this well.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
And they were bad even at the time.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Like it wasn't. Yes, you can say like, yeah, a lot of people had different social attitudes toward race and racism. And in that sense, she wasn't that much different. But there were cases where she was standing well outside of the norm. including in book titles and characters and things like that.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
And one book in particular, And Then There Were None, was revised many, many times, not just in the U.S., but in Great Britain as well. And it's remarkable in that sense. But in another sense, it is also remarkable in that it's considered pretty widely to have given birth to the slasher film genre. Did you know that?
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Yeah, I looked this up a little more, and on its own, and then there were none, the book ends, sorry for the spoiler, everybody, but it ends with, I think, all of the suspects killing one another, and everyone dies. In the stage adaptation of the play that she helped write, the final girl, a female character, is left alive and has out...
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
I started reading The Mysterious Affair at Stiles, which I think was her first published work, last night. And it's just great. She just sucks you right in. She does what's... She creates a lot of books, not all of them, but she creates what's called a cozy mystery with an S because it's British. And I'd never heard that term before until this article.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
done the murderer who's come to get her which is you know the formula for any slasher film whatsoever but there's a bunch of other elements in there too and they're like you know even on like horror fan wikis they point to that as like the genuine birth even more than Psycho of the slasher film genre how interesting Yeah, it is pretty interesting.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Who would have ever thought that Agatha Christie with her nonviolence and poison and occasional racism would have been the one to birth the slasher film?
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Yeah. So, again, it's a bit like exploring Elizabeth Blackwell or any historical character. There's always weird little bugs under the rocks you turn over, you know.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Yeah, no, it's true. But just wait for 20 years from now, they'll be like, I can't believe they talked about those guys were ageist bastards, you know? Probably so. There's one other thing I want to say too. So when she lived through World War II, Agatha Christie was worried that she was going to die in the bombing blitz of Great Britain.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
And she really wanted Hercule Poirot and Jane Marples to have a final case. So she wrote a book for each of them. One is called Curtain. That's Poirot's final book. And the other is Sleeping Murder. That is Marples' final case. And it just kind of explains what happens to them. I believe Poirot dies and Marple just retires.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
But when she survived World War II, she was like, well, I'm not ready for these guys to be retired yet. So she kept those books and had them posthumously published. And they were in the 70s. And when Hercule Poirot's last book came out and he died, the New York Times ran a front page obituary for him, the only fictional character to have that honor bestowed on them.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Have you ever seen one last thing? Have you ever seen Murder by Death? I know I've asked you before.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Well, that's amazing that you have that on your desk and you wait, is it on your desk at work? It is.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
I was going to say watch it tonight, but don't watch it tonight. Wait until everything clears. Was that one of her books?
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
No, it's a spoof actually of detective books of like Charlie Chan and Agatha Christie and Sam Spade and all that, that she helped, you know, kind of create. But it's actually like a complaint from fans of mysteries. It's just a wonderful book, movie. Truman Capote's in it. David Niven –
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Peter Falk, yeah. A lot of people. James Cromwell as a younger man. Oh, yeah. James Coco as Hercule Poirot. It's just great. You're going to love it, man.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
But when I came across it, I was like, yes, I love that kind of thing. And that's exactly what I love about Murder, She Wrote. Like the Murder, She Wrote's where she goes to like Broadway or Paris or something like that. I can take her leave. They're fine. But it's the ones that are set in tiny little Cabot Cove.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
No. Her last words were, good to meet you, Chuck. You got anything else?
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Well, friends, that is Agatha Christie. If you want to know more about Agatha Christie, go start reading Agatha Christie books. And since I said Agatha Christie like three or four times, it's time for Listener Mate.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Oh, yeah, I love this email.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
I love it. It is a little weird, though, Emmett. You're right. I love how self-aware this guy is.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Yeah, you're like the Bay City Rollers. You throw a dart at a map and go with it.
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No need to double check that.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
That's some fine reverse psychology right there.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
That is full circle right there.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Yeah. Happy birthday, Emmett. That reverse psychology worked, man. If you want to get in touch with us like Emmett did and see if we'll wish you a happy birthday, I'll bet we won't. But who can tell in these crazy times? You can get in touch with us via email. Wrap it up, spank it on the bottom, and send it off to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
that's just isolated from the rest of the world and it's cozy and small and it's like a village and all that. Those are the murder she wrote that I love the most. And I think that's what I like about Agatha Christie mysteries too is they're very typically cozy mysteries.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
No, that would be seared into my brain forever.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
I've not seen it yet. It's still like $7 on Amazon Prime, so I haven't rented it yet. I'm waiting for the price point to drop.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Yeah, I'm taking a stand on this.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
So I have a question for you. I have one more question. Have you seen the Agatha Christie film adaptation of Crooked House that came out in 2017? No. I think you'll like it. It was big budget, but it also looks like British made for television big budget. That's great. Gillian Anderson, Dana Scully is in it.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Because, you know, the Brits are nuts for her.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Oh, man. She's like their favorite person in the world and has been for years. Don't know why. Nothing against Gillian Anderson, but like she just never hit it as big over here as she did there. Terrence Stamp is in it.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
And I was like, this is really good. So I was reading little synopses of it and all that stuff. And it seemed like it's widely regarded as one of her best, most ingenious and inventive works.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Crooked House. I believe that's on Amazon Prime for free.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
I don't want to do that. Okay. I just don't want to do that. Probably pennies. Why did you do that to me? All right. So, Charles, let's get into this because I know that this one could be a little long if we're not deliberate and I would say maybe considerate of our time.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
I saw $4 billion in one place, and I think after you hit the billion mark, you can just start tossing around whatever number you want. I think so.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
For example, we've had 70 billion downloads now, I just decided. Oh, great. That's a lot of downloads. But think about it. Stephen King. How many books has that cat written? How many has he sold? All around the world. And it amounts to $350 million. And he's one of the best-selling authors of all time. A lot of people say that Agatha Christie's numbers hit $2 billion, like you said.
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No, you never say never, though.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Never say never. I also saw that she's the most widely translated author of all time, too. I buy that. I saw 45 languages. I was like, this thing's a little low. So then somewhere else I saw 103. So let's go with that.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's surprises and everything woven in. I mean, the whole thing is meant to be a surprise. It's a mystery. And part of the mystery, the allure of the mystery is that Agatha Christie not only wrote, but actually the whole genre she helped to develop. is that you are ostensibly able to figure out who the culprit is in the murder. It's almost always a murder.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
And so there is like, there is surprise involved. That's the point. But there's also a tremendous amount of familiarity. And that's that formula you were talking about. And that's what really has sucked generations of people into this whole genre and her 66 plus books.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Yeah, because Hercule Poirot was a retired Belgian police detective, so he has some measure of authority still to question people and interrogate people as he wishes. With Miss Marple, she's just kind of a quiet old lady who sews and knits a lot. And she just has a very keen eye for detail and an interest in solving the murders that seem to happen around her.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Basically, yes. But rather than interrogate people directly, Miss Marple's thing is she just kind of quietly is there and people tend to confide in her and she kind of quietly helps them along and she gives them the rope to hang themselves with. That's how she interrogates people or figures out who the murderer is.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Hey everybody, it's me, Josh, and for this week's Select, I've chosen our episode from 2020 on Agatha Christie. It's a neat little episode about who is possibly the greatest selling writer of all time, by far, and may inspire you to get into Agatha Christie's books. And there are definitely worse things you could do with your time.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
I confused that with Snowpiercer. I think I've seen both, but I can't remember which one's which.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
No, then I think I've just seen Snowpiercer.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Dude, that's saying something because that genre has gotten a little stale. Tired? Hey, let me ask you this. I know you've seen it. You had to. Ozark?
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Okay, yeah. You mean I just started at season one, and I'm like, all I want to do is sit around and watch Ozark. It's amazing.
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Oh, no, I didn't know that. Yeah. Smart.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Hey, you're getting responses. That's that's a big step forward. It's nice to be told no and just not ignored. Yeah, right.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
No, that's the point. So like in an espionage thriller or something, the locales are all over the place and, you know, the character's constantly moving. In these cozy thrillers, like even if they're in an exotic locale, they're still set in a small part of that exotic locale.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Right. And here's the thing. What I was saying with the kind of mystery that Agatha Christie wrote and really established, you are part of the mystery. Like you're either the investigator, the detective has an assistant that they explain things to very much like Sherlock Holmes and Watson. Sure.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Or if the detective is working solo, say like Miss Marple, Miss Marples might write a list of suspects and their motives and little clues down as part of the narration. And you're led in every step of the way. So you're part of this working towards solving the mystery.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
And as it's very frequently put, it kind of pits you in a competition with the author to see if you can figure out who done it before the end of the book.
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Selects: Agatha Christie: Queen of the Murder Mystery
Right. Man, I love those. Those were so great. Encyclopedia Brown. I remember he busted one dumb kid who did something bad. I can't remember. Was it Bugs Meany? Oh, man, good memory. It may have been Bugs Meany. Was he kind of a big, dumb oaf who'd, like, beat up on chipmunks? I think so. Okay.
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Yeah, and Bama's knows that the little things really do make a big difference. So they removed all the itchy tags, fixed the annoying toe seam, and perfected the fit of everything. No more socks that slip down or underwear that rides up. Just perfect comfort.
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So, Chuck, you were going to lay it on everybody how to cook quinoa.
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Yeah. And I would say, well, I was about to say easier than rice. I would say it's easier than rice. It doesn't stick like rice does.
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Selects: The Quinoa Revolution!
That's probably rice's biggest downfall. The sticky?
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Selects: The Quinoa Revolution!
The bag you're buying is probably going to say pre-rinsed or pre-washed or something like that. You want to rinse it anyway, right?
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Selects: The Quinoa Revolution!
No, the plant produces it to keep pests away from eating it.
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Selects: The Quinoa Revolution!
You'd be a madman just to use, like, water and quinoa.
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Yeah, and then this article, I'm not as acquainted with cooking quinoa as you are, but this article says that you want to look for the spirals.
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Yeah. I guess I should have thought this through. I took them out of the fridge already, so we've got 43 minutes for it to warm up. Should we put them back?
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Really good for you. Yeah. It has some amazing properties. Like it's anti-tumor, anti-ulcer, anti-inflammatory.
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And so you have to imagine like, again, that this plant is growing in this random place where plants aren't really supposed to grow and it thrives there and it's full of all these nutrients and the outer coating is an anti-inflammatory, anti-tumor agent.
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That you wash away. Yeah. It's kind of sad. Well, you could save it, sip on it later. I wonder what would happen. How would you have to ingest it, you think? Would it have any anti-inflammatory properties if you drank saponin, you think? Or do you need to inject it into your eye?
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One thing that the author of this article, I think it's Leah Hoyt, she said that she likes to mix it in instead of breadcrumbs into like meatballs or burgers. Sure. Why not?
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Yeah. So is there such a thing as a quinoa burger that's just quinoa? Could you make that or do you need something to bind it?
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how to go about that what do you do turkey burgers or i do turkey turkey burgers are pretty good depending on the brand some are just like what is this texture
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Should I put them back? Well, it's probably best cold, don't you think? Well, hang on, everybody. So, yes, we're going to try Soylent eventually in this episode.
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You and I are simpatico on the home burger cooking tip.
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Form and grill. Oh. Yeah. It's pretty great. Just sit there and watch that grease drip out of the front. And I've noticed many times I will just be zoned out drooling grease out of my mouth.
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You know, a lot of that was the direct result of a single person. Of Oprah, yeah. It all comes down to Oprah. No, there's this dude. He was a UN development worker from Bolivia who'd moved to California. And he had obviously grown up at least familiar with quinoa, if not eating quinoa. His name was Sergio Nunez de Arco. And he... He saw that quinoa was starting to catch on a little bit.
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So, Chuck, you just kind of gave it away alongside the title. Sure. We're talking about quinoa today, not quinoa. No. Quinoa. That's right. But. It's a superfood. Yes. Some say. Yeah. I mean, you can make a pretty good claim that it is a superfood. And what is a superfood if not a type of food that has a lot going on just in and of itself? Yeah, it's super. Yeah. Like blueberries are superfood.
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So he went back to Bolivia and he found that there were only a few indigenous producers who were putting out retail-sized bags of quinoa.
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So he went around and he basically created a co-op out of all the indigenous farmers who grow quinoa in Bolivia.
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And- made the supply from them reliable enough and big enough to supply industry abroad, around the world. This guy basically was the flashpoint for the quinoa explosion. He helped it happen.
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And he made sure that it was based on the work of the people who were originally cultivating quinoa.
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Yeah. You put down that pan flute. We're talking business here. Did they play the pan flute? Yeah. Those Andean Highlanders, they love that. They love that junk? Mm-hmm. Is that where Zamfir is from? No, I think Zamfir is, I think he's Mediterranean.
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Yanni didn't play the pan flute, though, did he?
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Okay. Zamfir is definitely master of the pan flute. Well, of course. You can't call yourself that on a CD unless Oprah has said so. Right. And it has the stamp of approval.
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Yeah, it kept going up, too. I think it peaked in 2012. Really? Yeah, the price went up quite a bit.
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Yes. Apparently, I don't know where it started, but somebody created some, I guess somebody wrote an article or started digging around and they said, hey, everybody, you guys are eating all this quinoa. Guess what you did? You drove up prices so much that the very indigenous people who have been cultivating this for thousands of years can't afford it anymore. So suck on that, hipster.
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It's basically an American pastime to take hipsters down a peg, isn't it? Is it? It seems like it. Anything hipsters like, everybody goes to a lot of trouble to dig around and find what's wrong with it.
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All those cars you see, they're all probably on autotrader.com.
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AutoTrader's been attracting car shoppers for years now, and for good reason. Not only do they have supercharged search features that allow you to easily find your perfect car, AutoTrader has Kelley Bluebook MyWallet. From credit scores to down payments to interest rates, we all know that car buying requires a lot of math, so enter MyWallet on AutoTrader.
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Or acai berries. Superfood. Yeah. Or acai berries. Yeah. Algae. Algae. I didn't know algae was. Oh, yeah. I buy that. Hemp seeds. Sure. Chia seeds. Yeah. A lot of nuts. Ritz crackers. I don't know.
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Yes. Well, Amazon understands, which is why they created Amazon One Medical and Amazon Pharmacy. They're designed to remove these pain points from health care. With Amazon One Medical, you get 24-7 virtual care so you can see a provider within minutes and avoid those long, annoying waits.
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Thanks to the ease and convenience of Amazon One Medical and Amazon Pharmacy, healthcare just got less painful. Running a small business is complicated. There are, I don't know, dozens of software programs that you need, and they're all so expensive. And since they come from different companies, they don't always play nice with one another. But what can you do, right? Odoo. That's what.
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Capital One N.A. Member FDIC. Sometimes getting better is harder than getting sick. Waiting on hold for an appointment, standing in line at the pharmacy, the whole healthcare system can feel like a headache. Well, Amazon One Medical and Amazon Pharmacy are changing that.
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Odoo has all the software business owners need. We're talking CRM, sales, accounting, literally every kind of software. And it's all on one platform. So it works together. And it's quality software, so you're not sacrificing. It's just a better experience than a hodgepodge of programs. I mean, you'd expect to pay a premium for it, right? But that's the most amazing part about Odoo.
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Yeah, I think the hipsters kind of chewed that up and spit it out. It's still great.
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Let's write about it. Right. And I read this really interesting article. I think it was a Mother Jones writer, like a Mother Jones ag writer who basically said like, hey, dudes, all of this stuff that, you know, is suddenly like the hot new superfood. Yeah. It's niche food. food marketing.
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It's the same thing as like Oreos coming out with a new flavor every like couple months that you gotta go try or something like that.
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But yeah, but geared toward people who don't eat junk food. But it's the same exact thing. So don't be a chump.
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Or being eaten by idiots and saps and simpletons. Right. So the thing is, the thing that made it even worse, though, was the idea that the huge demand in the expanded market for quinoa that was largely found in the United States was directly responsible for pricing indigenous farmers who were growing that quinoa
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out a bit right so they weren't even eating it was the problem and is well supposedly right and and what they found was that one they they couldn't afford it they've been priced out yeah Or they were making the decision to where, yeah, they're making more money now, but they would rather sell all their quinoa and buy less expensive, less nutrient-dense food for their families.
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So the very people producing quinoa were not only couldn't afford it, they also were being malnourished as a result of this quinoa explosion. Right. It was a big deal. It made a lot of people second-guess it, feel pretty bad about themselves. And I also guarantee it had a negative impact on the quinoa market as well. Sure. Which would directly affect the farmers.
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But what you dug up, though, on this NPR's The Salt, I guess, blog, their food blog?
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Yeah. And so you can they basically tracked a direct correlation between the quinoa boom around the world. and a rise in the household welfare of quinoa farmers back in Peru. So they conclusively proved pretty much that there was no – that these farmers weren't too poor to afford quinoa. But the other one was still left standing, right? Right.
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The idea that they were selling all their quinoa, but then they were still malnourished because they were buying less nutritionally dense food.
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And that apparently they managed to disprove as well.
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I saw up to 8,000 years. Wow, that's more than 5,000. Sure.
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Pretty cool. Hipsters rejoice. They shall rejoice, but there are still some outstanding problems, right? Sure. So like you said, that guy mentioned it was a culturally important food, so much so that Bolivia, in its drafted 2009 constitution, enshrined quinoa as part of their food sovereignty, which is their right to protect culturally important food.
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Right, and they recognized the importance of quinoa for a very long time. There was apparently a Colorado researcher who went to Bolivia in 1986 and was shot dead trying to smuggle quinoa seeds out of the country.
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And I guess somebody from Colorado eventually got them out because Colorado State University patented a hybrid quinoa in 1994 based on Bolivian seeds. And the government of Bolivia called them biopirates. Whoa. Yeah, that's not something you want leveled at you.
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Right. More than the last six months, quinoa has been around on this planet.
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Yeah, there was violence that broke out in February of I think 2015, maybe – sorry, 2014 where one guy got his arm blown off by dynamite during this battle among hundreds of farmers for some land that had been sitting there abandoned for like decades. And part of the problem is when you're doing good agricultural practices, what did we talk about no-till farming in? I was thinking that too.
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I can't remember. We've definitely talked a lot about that. Yeah. And when you're using good agricultural practices, one of the main things you want to do is let fields lay fallow for a year or a season at a time.
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And they're not doing that anymore in the Andes. And again, this is really, really fragile cropland that they're growing this stuff in. So they're not letting it lay fallow any longer. And they're also using llamas less often. And llamas and quinoa go together like rice and beans, which, by the way, is another complete protein food.
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But it's not just a single food, so you can't really call it a superfood.
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We did. We did one on the Dust Bowl and desertification.
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Well, they're not llama farming like they used to. Llamas use a lot of grazing land, and they're like, we can use that instead to grow quinoa. Because quinoa is more valuable than llamas. Right, but llamas, again, and quinoa go together like rice and beans, and llama poop is almost like it's designed or tailored to fertilize quinoa.
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They started to use sheep poop instead, I guess imported sheep poop, and it allows a lot more pests and invasive weeds than llama poop does when llama poop is fertilizing. So the whole ecosystem is definitely being... Altered.
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yeah and not necessarily in good ways because of this huge demand and this huge influx of cash it's basically more money more problems yeah the the alto planos people are finding out it's so weird or not weird but kind of sad that you can't you know it can't just be a success story never is you know gotta have the good with the bad i guess
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Yeah, you're SOL. If you have 3,000 to choose from to try to adapt to changing climate, then, yeah, you're way better off. So crop diversity is pretty important, but, yeah, that's getting erased as well.
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See, that to me, that's what government subsidies are for. Stuff like that. For, like, small indigenous farmers who are protecting thousand-year-old varieties of crops that are part of the cultural fabric of a country.
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Yeah. Well, part of the problem is quinoa is very closely related. I think it's in the same genus as something called lamb's quarters. Yeah, that's the weed. Which doesn't really matter up in the Alto Plano. But in California, lamb's quarters is a toxic plant to livestock, which might accidentally graze on it because they're not thinking about that kind of stuff. Yeah.
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And it also carries a virus that kills alfalfa, which is very much grown in California, to feed that livestock. Man. So it's weird. It's a complex, amazing plant that shouldn't exist. Quinoa.
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Yeah, let's do that. All right. So here we are. We're going to try this. Yeah, Soylent. It's in a white bottle. We caught a lot of flack about not having tried it and still done something. I'm like, well, here we go then. I'm not iridescent, but I've done an episode on iridescence. Give me a break, people.
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I think so. I don't know. We've got to go back and listen to the episode again. It's been a while.
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All right. Here we go. So this is us trying Soylent. We also want to say thanks again to Don Kent for sending this in. It smells like a... Oh, that's a nice kind of a nice smell. What does that smell like? It smells like cereal milk. We got that a lot. A lot of people said it smelled like or it tastes like Cheerios milk. That's totally what it smells like.
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Can we say Cheerios or is this an episode for Cheerios now? All right. I'm going to... Should we do it at the same time? Three, two, one. I thought we were chugging the whole thing. No. Oh, that's not bad. It is... It's not bad at all. 100% Cheerio cereal milk. Yeah. I think I would have come up with that even if somebody hadn't said it. This is good.
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I like it. I can see how you would kind of start to crave it because it's got that almost a fatty mouthfeel to it. You know what I mean? Yeah. It really gets on the tongue. All right. Well, there it is. I should probably stop. It's got a lot of calories in it.
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Yeah, and the fact that it grew up there or grows up there, and not only grows but thrives up in this high, rocky, I think pretty much arid plateau. That's also very cold. It doesn't make any sense that you'd have anything but alpacas and llamas up there.
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Well, thanks again to Don Kent. Thanks again to everybody who wrongly called us out for doing an ad for Soylent.
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Kind of chalky. I don't have that. Oh, if you want to know more about Soylent, go listen to the Soylent episode. In the meantime, if you want to know more about quinoa, type that word, Q-U-I-N-O-A, into the search bar at HowStuffWorks.com. And since I said search bar, it's time for more Soylent. I mean, it's time for Listener Mail.
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I kind of like this stuff. I like food more, but that's not bad. Sure. Like if somebody said, should I drink Soylent? I'd say, why not?
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We just gave her a shout-out. Yeah. Well, she's not the only person to feel that way.
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Thanks a lot, Sarah. Appreciate that. So wait, is she from Australia or she's just living in Australia now? I think she's just living there. Okay, got it. If you want to let us know about your world travels and all that jazz, like Sarah did, you can send us an email to thestuffpodcast at howstuffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.
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But in fact, there's a plant that's one of the most nutritious foods on the planet that just so happens to thrive up there in Bolivia and Peru in the highlands. That's pretty awesome. It is. And so, of course, they have used this for thousands and thousands of years.
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In Orlando, meetings reach another level thanks to a growing list of award-winning restaurants, a world-class convention center, a great hotel community, easy access through the airport, and of course, the weather. Andrew Moyes, VP of Fan Expo HQ, had this to say about Orlando.
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Luxury hotels, Michelin restaurants, easy access through the airport, all those key things feed into the proper executive experience. And while you may know Orlando for its attractions, industries like healthcare, aerospace, and advanced manufacturing make it a hub for cutting-edge businesses. And that's what makes Orlando unbelievably real. Learn more at OrlandoForBusiness.com.
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And it wasn't until I think the early 20th century that it really started to make its way for the first time out to the United States. I think the USDA got their hands on it and tried to get farmers to grow it here in the States. And they said, nah, let's give it another 100 years maybe, a little less.
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Get convenient virtual care 24-7 with Amazon One Medical and have your prescriptions delivered right to your door with Amazon Pharmacy. No more lines, no more hassles, just affordable, fast care. Thanks to Amazon Pharmacy and Amazon One Medical, healthcare just got less painful. Learn more at health.amazon.com.
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Well, supposedly, the whole trend for quinoa, which, by the way, in typical Stuff You Should Know fashion, has already come and gone, and now we're doing an episode on it. Oh, it's not gone. Are you sure? Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, do you know how quinoa hit the map, hit the scene?
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She was on some sort of cleanse diet in 2008, and she ate quinoa and mushrooms, I guess, and everybody was like, what is that? She's like, oh, you've been calling it quinoa. It's quinoa. And I said, well, we have to try this now.
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Not a lot, no. I've had it here or there. I've had it in a couple of restaurants.
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You could make cinnamon old shoes and put them in a cereal box and it'd be good.
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Right. That's why it's not a cereal. Cereal is a grain that comes from a grass.
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Oh, it looks like marijuana? A little bit. From afar? Huh. That brilliant red and brilliant yellow? Isn't that what marijuana looks like when it's growing?
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Yeah. Like when you talk about grains, usually, again, you're talking about these things from grasses like wheat, right? Yeah. And there's such a thing as whole grain wheat. But once we process something, once we mill it or – Shell it. Smack it on the bottom, whatever you do to them, you're actually removing certain parts of the grain, right? So with like enriched white flour –
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You've taken a whole wheat grain, and you've removed the bran and the germ, and you've just got yourself the endosperm still. And the endosperm is what's used mostly to produce white flour. Yeah. And that's great. It's full of quick, easily digestible carbs, but a lot of the nutrients are lost.
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That's true too. But a lot of the nutrients are lost in the process. So even if you can digest it, no problem, you're not getting most of the nutrients that were there in the first place. With a whole grain, it's got the bran, the germ, and the endosperm, and they're all working together to make you vastly healthier than you would be if you're just eating the endosperm like you do in white flour.
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So imagine if like from spinach plants we got not only the leaves, but also the seeds turned out to be whole grains. That's what's going on. It's a weird plant. It is. It shouldn't grow where it grows. It shouldn't be a cereal. It shouldn't be a grain. It shouldn't be related to beets. It shouldn't be delicious. Right. But it is. That's right.
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Yeah, this article made that point, but I wouldn't look. There's a lot of other plants that have pretty good amounts of protein in them. What rivals quinoa in amounts? Edamame, black beans, lima beans, chickpeas all beat it by a mile.
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I just thought it was weird because not only did this article say it, I ran across it elsewhere too that they were like, this is, it's amazing how much protein it has in it. It has like a decent amount, especially for a plant, but just not like eye popping or anything like that, you know? You think it's hyperbole? I kind of poo-pooed that one. Okay.
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Well, it can't make essential amino acids. It can make non-essential amino acids, but the essential ones we have to get from food. And... Quinoa is in a very small group of plants that are complete sources of protein, meaning that they have all of the essential amino acids that we need in them. Yes. You don't find that in plants very frequently. No. That's what helps make it a superfood. Exactly.
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What else? Zinc? It's got a lot of zinc. It has a lot of potassium, too. Apparently, it has the most potassium of any food plant that is around. Potassium is really good at regulating blood pressure because potassium is in charge of things like fluid retention and electrical conduction throughout cells.
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Are they? Yeah. Or is that the work of Edward Bernays?
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Yeah, that's good. Gluten-free? Well, that's a big one, man. So it's very commonly touted as a gluten-free food, grain, which is good for people who have celiac disease. But apparently they've tested. There's at least, what did you say, 120, 150 varieties?
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That are in agricultural production right now.
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And somebody tested a bunch of them, and they came up with at least four that created a celiac response.
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So you've got to be careful. For the most part, they are gluten-free, but there are a few varieties out there that can touch off the old celiac response.
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Hey, everybody. It's Chuck and Josh here to talk to you about Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easy to build the website of your dreams and do whatever you like with it.
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Yeah, and when it's time to collect that money, Squarespace offers an easier way to collect payments so you can focus on growing your business. You can invoice clients and get paid for your services, turn leads into clients with proposals, estimates, and contracts, and simplify your workflow and manage your service business on one platform. What else could you possibly ask for?
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Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Charles W. Chuck Bryant's right there. Jerry's right there. It's a little chilly in here. So it's Stuff You Should Know, the podcast. Because it's chilly? That's the cherry on top.
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If you're driving right now, look around. I'll wait. All those cars you see, they're all probably on autotrader.com.
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AutoTrader has been attracting car shoppers for years now, and for good reason. Not only do they have supercharged search features that allow you to easily find your perfect car, AutoTrader has Kelley Bluebook MyWallet. From credit scores to down payments to interest rates, we all know that car buying requires a lot of math, so enter MyWallet on AutoTrader.
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Well, it's officially too cold to do anything, Chuck. But the upside is that you can cocoon yourself in Bombas socks, slippers and underwear all winter long.
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Yeah. So Muzak, I mean, we haven't even said what it is. Surely people know. But Muzak are instrumental tracks. And you did mention that there were no vocals. So we kind of hinted at it.
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But they're instrumental tracks that are cover songs of – Kind of anything you can think of. I mean, I've heard some music of some heavy rock. It can be classical music. It can be old standards. But the point is they are instrumental versions that are re-recorded. They don't just take the vocals out. It's not karaoke style.
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It is re-recorded, arranged, and recorded by professional, really good musicians, orchestras sometimes. Yeah. And that's what it is. And it's great. The end.
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Yeah, and there are many versions of it. Antonio Carlos Jobim's Girl from Ipanema, but the Muzak version is one of the most popular, and that 101 Strings version is the most ubiquitous from that lot. I do encourage people to go watch the YouTube, though, of Frank Sinatra and Jobim singing that song live on TV because it's great in every way.
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They're just sitting next to each other, and the shot isn't wide at first, and they're just sort of singing back and forth to each other, and Frank's doing his thing, and then it cuts to the wide. And Frank is like totally kicked back with his legs crossed with a cigarette in his hand. Exactly like you would hope.
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But he looks like, I mean, he looks like he just not rolled out of bed because he's put together. But he looks like he rolled from his wicker bag to his wicker chair.
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For this performance. Can I get some cocaine in here, baby? That's Joe Piscopo as Frank Sinatra.
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Oh, yeah. I love that old lounge stuff. It's really great, Brazilian stuff.
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Yeah, which is already music to sleep to, yeah.
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It's that mellow. Music to wet your bed to.
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Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Can I start this off by saying something?
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Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
All right, so Muzak is trucking along in the 30s. They get to the 40s, and they think, you know what? We need a better way to sell this stuff and to pitch this to businesses and corporations. So why don't we hire some people to research Muzak?
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Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
And to figure out what kinds of music keep people happy and working. And because people, you know, they work hard in the morning and then they sort of lag a bit before lunch and then they really lag sort of a couple of hours after lunch. So why don't we do this? Why don't we study it? Let's call it stimulus progression. It's a bit pseudoscience. It makes sense. It is in that it's not been proven.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
It makes sense to everyone who I feel like knows about it. Like, sure, music can pick you up and make you work harder. But it's pseudoscience in that it's I don't think it's ever been scientifically proven.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Well, this episode is on Muzak. And I started thinking last night, I was thinking about your love of Muzak, which is not at all ironic.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, I think maybe their specific claims about a workday might have been a little – I mean everywhere I read said it was basically not a marketing scam but a marketing tool that they kind of invented.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, I mean, that is certainly fair. It was never just like, hey, we're just going to play a bunch of what people might consider droll background music. Like they really did, I think, I don't think it was a scam. I think they really did try to study working environments.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
And what they did with his stimulus progression was they divided the workday into 15-minute increments and basically set a DJ playlist for every 15 minutes, and they assigned a stimulus value from one to six, one being really, really mellow, six being, you know, super up.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
And they basically went through and almost like a Pandora sort of curated playlist type of thing to get people to work hard and efficiently throughout a day. And companies bought in, including the U.S. Army.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
It's true, everyone. I know Josh very well. And I was thinking of your, and I like all kinds of music too, but you know, in my heart, I'm a rock and roll guy. And I was thinking about your top musical genres that are above rock and roll in your picking order. Not in order. I counted easy listening, music, disco, art rock, kraut rock. And I probably missed a couple.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Well, yeah. I mean, you need only to host a house party and play music yourself to determine how music can affect the mood of a group of people. You put on Groove is in the Heart and you know what's going to happen.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Everyone's going to shake their groove thing. If you put in old sourpuss Brian Eno's music for airports, not a good party thing.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Sure. I mean, I love that record and I love a lot of his stuff, including his ambient music experimental records. I think it's really, really good stuff to have on if it's a nice gray day outside and you're getting work done. I really enjoyed his background music, but it's definitely not up in any way.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Emily got me into Ambient. I call her Emily when she's listening to that stuff. She really got me. She called it Ambient Groove. She really got me into that stuff over the years.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Like Zero7 and, you know, stuff that's, she calls it ambient groovy, just sort of mellow and groovy and like Zero7 and more Chiba. And there was a certain era, I think, where that stuff peaked. Massive Attack a little bit.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
So Eno, though, let's get back to him. He kind of came up with this as an antidote to music, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, he said... I love that in this article it says, as reported by Red Bull Music. Right. Eno said this, and this was, I think, for the liner notes, actually, to music for airports. Whereas canned music's intention is to brighten the environment by adding stimulus to it, ambient music is intended to induce calm and a space to think.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Ambient music must be able to accommodate many levels of listening attention without enforcing one in particular. It must be as ignorable as it is interesting.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
And then stuff, I think Art Rock is sort of that avant-garde. Like, I don't, you don't love Yoko, but you certainly are a bit of a Yoko apologist. Sure. Grace Jones, stuff like that.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, that was sort of... I mean, one of the heydays of Muzak certainly was in that when the Glenn Miller Orchestra was pop music on the radio, Muzak wasn't a far stretch from some of that stuff. So it was sort of all one in the same. I think it was as styles changed and the 60s and 70s start rolling along that Muzak became really sort of a bad word to a lot of people.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, they didn't have to do that. I think it's interesting. They could have had a really mellow singer at a certain point come in. And I really respect the fact that they were like, nope, the singer is a violin and I don't want to hear it anymore. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Oh, I think most musicians, unless you're a Ted Nugent who... And we'll get to that, but very famously sort of offered to buy Muzak when they fell upon hard times so he could basically burn it to the ground. I think most musicians... deep down think it's kind of an honor when one of their songs is Muzakified.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, I mean, they kind of span from art rock to new wave to like world music by the time they finished.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, I mean, music, we almost always have music on in our house unless, you know, it's night and we're watching, you know, a movie or watching something on TV. But at almost all waking hours, we have music playing in our home and it just feels weird and quiet and not full of life when there's no music happening.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
But yeah, I mean, I certainly love the Talking Heads, but all of those for you are above good old-fashioned rock and roll, I think.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
But you love Muzak. You really do. I do. I do too, actually. I don't know.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
All right, so I'm born in 1971, and Muzak starts to die a little bit. A little bit. Because a real rock and roller came into the world.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
It did not go away completely, though. It was just sort of... I guess the beginning of the end, but that didn't mean there wasn't still a business model for Muzak because Muzak was never about its popularity.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I don't know how much I like – I will listen to some of that stuff, and we'll talk about Eno in here, of course, old sourpuss Brian Eno. But I love listening to his ambient stuff, which he sort of – wrote as an antidote to Muzak. Again, we'll talk about that more later. But I do like, in certain circumstances, that Muzak thing is really great to have on in my house as background music.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, I mean, even in the 80s, it was syndicated in 19 countries. There were 80 million people listening, whether or not they wanted to or not, listening to Muzak every day. And the company ended up being bought and sold a couple of times over the years. I think in 81, or in 72, a company called Teleprompter owned it. In 81, Westinghouse bought it. And I don't know if I believe this.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
The story goes that Westinghouse... learned later on when they were buying Teleprompter that they owned Muzak, and apparently they didn't know that.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I don't know. I mean, who doesn't? Maybe back then they didn't do research into purchasing entire corporations.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Although we've had companies that bought... and then they learned that there was a podcast program attached.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, actually, that could happen now that I think about it. That's right.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
And then I think in the – I think it was – when did Yesco come along? Was that the 90s? So Yesco was around from the 60s. Well, when they finally came together though, right?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, and I think that's why today when you go into Publix to do your grocery shopping, you'll hear Christopher Cross singing Sailing instead of the Muzak version of Sailing.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Do we have to choose? I mean, I'm a big Christopher Cross fan. You're not going to find a bigger fan than me.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, he's great. I got his two big albums I still have on my shelf.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah. You're like, no, no, no. He's just tied up.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
So in 1984, though, is when Yesco got... officially involved with Muzak. I think Muzak was, did they actually file for bankruptcy or were they just at that sort of precipice?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I remember seeing that logo. I mean, you've probably seen the vans around before and really not known. It's that M with a circle around it. Right. I remember when I first saw that, I was like, wait a minute, is that the Muzak?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
What else? Realm, leap. Nope. Those are all the quantums I know.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, like if you want to use Armani Exchange as an example, what they'll do is they will literally try and make like a DJ mix that has beat matches and it doesn't break the momentums and it's all crossfaded. Whereas if Ann Taylor calls them up, they don't want to crossfade. They want Celine Dion songs and then a little bit of a small break and then a Sting song coming on.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
And these gentle fades in and fades out. And, you know, it's the same sort of stuff. It's just curated foreground music. Right. What I love about Muzak is in the end, when they were finally acquired, they had 1.5 million commercially recorded songs in their catalog. And they call that The Well. Right. That's amazing. Almost 800 Beatles songs.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I don't know, though, man. You want to move some Armani gear? Put on You Can Call Me Al.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I've never felt more alive. Why is Chevy Jason here?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
A really cool thing, though, is what you were talking about with Muzak being on the tech forefront. Yeah. It's really cool that over the years, they were always early adopters of tech. And it's funny to think about them that way, but they were always on the leading edge and the forefront of what technology was doing.
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Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, I mean, you could make an argument that they were doing the Pandora Spotify thing decades before they were doing it.
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Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I'm going to go. What were those two records again? I want to write this down.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
So not to be confused with Weezer's Blue Album.
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Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, and if eventually you're like, I'm feeling really goosey, how about some actual vocalists going on? And then you'll just go right into Josh's other favorite, which is Yacht Rock Easy Listening.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Vince Giraldi is another great one. I know he's known for the Charlie Brown stuff, but all of Vince Giraldi is great.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I'm going to call this from Lauren. Hey, guys. A man walks down the street and says, why am I soft in the middle? The rest of my life is so hard. Oh, wait a minute. Sorry.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Hey, guys. Been listening to Stuff You Should Know for a few years. I often turn up the volume and play an episode while I cook dinner. My seven-year-old daughter, Lila, used to complain, ugh, you're listening to this again? But I recently caught her singing the beat to the intro music. Nice. And she'll casually mention things she's heard from time to time.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I suspect she's fond of the animal episodes. Anyway, you'll jokingly sometimes say, Jerry... Well, you're going to have to edit that part out, and it has me curious how often things are cut from an episode and why. Bad jokes? Too long? Have you ever had to completely redo one?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I think it'd be really interesting to know, and I bet Lila would find it encouraging, since she likes to make videos of herself singing and dancing. For the record, y'all make it effortless and seem effortless, and it's always a joy to listen to. That is Lauren from Montevallo, Alabama, and she says P.S.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
She says, P.S., how cool of a mom would I be if my daughter heard our names on the podcast?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
So there you go, Lauren and Lila. The answer is... Very little gets edited out. Just the singing and dancing. Like that siren in the background?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
No, we don't edit a lot out. Occasionally, like we found out, and we said this before early on, we left in the word stumbles and the ums and the uhs just because it's a conversation and we didn't want to make it seem too scripted because it's not, or canned because it's not. And so we just left that stuff in there. And the only time, like,
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I can think today you had to look something up real quick, but that doesn't happen much.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
So, I mean, that's gone now, but very little is edited out, especially after this many years. We're not one-take wonders, but it's... Jerry doesn't have the hardest job in the world, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
But that's not to say that shows that are heavily edited and very kind of scripty and slick, like there's room for those too.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I keep waiting on Roman to text me and being like, you guys are consistently talking smack about me.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, and we can go ahead and dispel a couple of, or not myths, but clear up a couple of things right off the bat. First of all, Muzak is a name brand. Um, and people can kind of collectively use the term Muzak or have collectively use that term for what's called like potted plant music or elevator music or shopping music.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Um, but it is actual, actually a brand name, uh, which we'll get to the history of. And then the second thing is it gets the name elevator music, um, Part of the myth is that people said, well, they put it on elevators because people were afraid to death of elevators early on. And it calmed people down or it covered up the noise of the clanking elevators.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, neither one of those things are true. Total myth. My guess is that it was played on elevators. And because you're in such a closed little box that's usually quiet, it just was way more noticeable than like in a big office full of people working. So people called it elevator music. That's my guess.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
That great Blues Brothers scene? Yeah.
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Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I think my favorite part of that scene is there's – Just dozens and hundreds of cops and SWAT guys just, you know, hut, hut, hut, hut, hut, when they're rappelling and doing all this stuff. And then there's the one shot of the lone guy rappelling down the side of the building, and he's by himself just going, hut, hut, hut, hut. Yeah, that's a good one. So funny.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Well, I mean, that's kind of one of the points, too, is Muzak has long been a movie trope and a TV trope and then been lampooned in scenes just like the Blues Brothers scene where there's something chaotic going on and then you cut back to the sound of Muzak playing wherever the other scene is setting.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, so let's go back in time and talk about the inventor of Muzak. And this is sort of a fun fact of Muzak. The man's name is George Square. It is spelled Squire, but he swears it's pronounced Square.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Or he swore it was pronounced square. Yeah, that's kind of one of the funny jokes, like the guy who invented Muzak's was square. Yeah. But Major General George Square was born in 1865, if you believe that. And he has just a laundry list of accomplishments. As a human being, he earned a doctorate from Johns Hopkins in electrical science. He was an Army engineer with a PhD, I think the first one.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah. And he was, I believe, the lead Signal Corps officer for the Army as well.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
He was – here's another little fun fact. He was one of the first airplane passengers ever because he was way into human flight and got together with the Wright brothers. And in 1906, consulted with them, and they said, hey, why don't you take a ride in our new little biplane? You'll probably live.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, where he really made a big name for himself pre-Muzak was this invention, which is what we call multiplexing, which is he figured out, or maybe wireless communications, which is something he worked on with the Army. He basically figured out how to get multiple uses out of single telephone lines.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Telephone wires were, you know, there are only so many, so you were really limited as to what you could do with them and how many people could use them. So he basically figured out a way to increase their output and efficiency
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
by multiplexing and by sending superimposing high frequency radio signals over those low frequency telegraph signals, basically just allowing you to use the wire at the same time, the same wire.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, and I think he was like, everyone should be able to use this. So I'm going to open source it, and everyone can use this new multiplexing technology. AT&T came along and said, we'll use it. And then, you know what, you stole it from us, actually. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I think he sued them, but it didn't work.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Yeah, he basically invented the first music subscription service.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Baba Booey. So he had that technology, though, and he said, you know what? This is a good idea, though. Maybe I can think of how to use this in offices and stores. And in 1934 – He looked up at Kodak, very successful corporation, and said, I love that name and I love music. Let's just call it Muzak. And history changed and maybe we should take a break.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Yeah, it's definitely on my to-do list.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh W. Chuck Clark. There's Charles Malcolm Bryant. And there's Jerry the Wiz rolling.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Right. And the report itself didn't focus exclusively on crickets, but crickets feature prominently in the report. They're the star. It was about bugs in general and eating bugs in general. And it made a pretty big splash. I remember when it came out. It really hit the news cycle pretty hard. But it also caught the attention of that Bockhuber guy.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
who said, all right, I think I'm going to get into this, because he'd already been exposed to eating crickets in Thailand, and then when that UN report came out, he, I think, began his startup here in the states of his commercial cricket farm startup.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Yeah, I didn't see that anywhere. I think he said that at his TED report.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
But, yeah. It definitely made a splash. I'll give him that for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Right, right. The animal itself is efficient at converting food that you feed it into stuff that you can get from it.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Yeah. Maybe we'll have, like, the swirly face, like the weird people in Jacob's Ladder.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
No, it's like 40% of a cow is edible and digestible.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
So there's two different things here, right? So you've got efficiency in nutrient conversion, which is, say, like if you eat an apple, you can convert, you know, X amount of the energy available in the apple into, you know, energy for yourself. Metabolism, right? And poop. Right. Yeah. But poop is waste. So that stuff wouldn't count toward efficiency.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
It would actually subtract from your efficiency and lower your efficiency. If you ate an apple and used every bit of it and it produced zero poop, you would have 100 percent efficiently converted that apple into useful energy.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
It would be a bee, a magic apple, and you wouldn't need a poop chute. But instead you do because there is no such thing as 100% efficiency in any animal, right? But some are better than others, like you were saying. And with a cricket, it's something like they're like 12 times more efficient at converting food into usable energy or stored, in this case, stored protein, right? Yeah. So for every...
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
of live cricket weight, which is a pretty substantial amount of crickets, but kilogram to kilogram or pound to pound, it just takes 1.7 kilograms of feed to produce one kilogram of live crickets. Not bad. For a cow, it takes 10 kilograms of feed to produce one kilogram of beef. Very inefficient by comparison. So if you take the fact that it doesn't take much feed to produce...
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
biomass of crickets and that crickets are 80% edible and digestible compared to the cows 40% edible and digestible, then you really have a, if you're just going pound to pound or kilogram to kilogram, a much more nutrient dense, much more efficient, and then therefore much less wasteful animal that you could eat.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Well, I have a mealworm farm I was going to ask you to buy in on.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Kevin Bach-Ruber? I think he's... He's Irish-German, maybe.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
What's that? It's this band. Oh, okay.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Yeah, I couldn't find the current number. Yeah, let's just say at least 25. Okay. Although I'll bet they go under pretty quick. You think so? I could see losing your shirt on cricket farming right now. It's just so early. Yeah, true. And the market is so not there, and the stuff they're producing is so expensive.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Yeah, did you... Do you watch Shark Tank?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Okay, so did you see the one with Rose Wang and Laura Desario?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Okay, so you saw the one with Chirps. They're cricket-based snack product Chirps. I want to try it. I do too.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
No, and I would try it as well. And I don't know if you remember or not, but when we did that locust thing for Science Channel, it's like the second time it's come up this month, weirdly enough. Um, they made fried locusts and I refused to eat them. Right. And it wasn't because I was grossed out. It was because I was sure that I was going to have some sort of weird allergic reaction to them.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Oh, right. Because they're shellfish, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I would have had to have been like, you know, life flighted somewhere to a hospital and would have missed my flight home. That is the only reason I didn't eat them. It had nothing to do with disgust.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
But in that UN report, they address allergies and they said that it's actually exceedingly rare that somebody has an allergic reaction to an arthropod. Yeah. Or to an insect, I should say. But the reason why I thought so is because, yeah, I had had like a shrimp blow up once.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
And I just was not about to roll the dice on that. Not for what Science Channel is paying us.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Yeah, shrimp chips. Yeah. Which use real shrimp powder. It's like, I think, Japanese or Korean or Chinese delicacy. But now you can eat shrimp, right? Yeah, I did immunotherapy, and now I'm fine. I can eat shrimp all day long.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Yeah, I love shrimp, man. Good shrimp, like seasoned with Old Bay, just simple stuff. Oh, man, so good.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
If there's a fork involved, you don't want to have to put your fork down and take the head and tail off.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
So I ran across a reason probably why.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
There's something called chitin, which makes up the exoskeleton of bugs, but it also makes up the shells of crustaceans as well. And chitin supposedly, if you don't have an allergic reaction to it, chitin is apparently good for – it's said to be good for weight loss.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
It aids in digestion, allegedly. And I think it has something to do with your blood pressure, too. And in other countries, non... non-Western countries, I think they prescribe chitin quite a bit. It's like a dietary supplement. And I saw one study that said, yeah, it had a little bit of an effect, a little more than placebo, but not clinically significant. But it was just one study.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
So I'm curious if chitin actually does have an effect. But it's possible they're saying you should eat the whole thing. Well, that's what I was going to add. All of the shell.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
I mean, I don't know. They could also just be a fat, lazy chef, you know?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
But if you think about it, though, if you're eating a fried cricket or something, you're eating the whole thing, shell and all, antenna.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
I don't know that I've ever had soft-shell crab.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
That was nice of you. That was very gracious of you as a host.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Okay. Yeah. I thought that was crab, like, spelled with a K, like fake crab.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Yeah, how's it going? You're going to eat me in a second, aren't you? Oh, I'm getting hungry now. You want to take a break real quick?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
Right. We're contractually obligated to mention Mark Cuban.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Are crickets the future of food?
I would try chirps for sure. If the chirps people are out there listening and you want to send us some chirps, I will try them up. All right. So let's take that break. Okay.
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Yeah, it's definitely on my to-do list.
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There's something called cricket flour, which is ground up cricket meal, basically a protein powder made from crickets, right? And it's anywhere from like $35 to $50 a pound for it. Yeah. It's very expensive. A lot of money. But it's really ironic because crickets require so much less space and food and water and and electricity.
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It's apparently the labor force that is the most expensive thing of any commercial cricket farm because it's just hard to find people who can do that, even though it's not exactly hard. It's just there's a lot of trial and error going on. So from what I saw, it's the labor force that's eating up most of the revenue or profits from
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uh cricket farming well finding all those tiny people those three-inch people right it's not easy but there are startups also that are that are trying to sell like home cricket kits too yeah because that's part of the the whole idea where if you're gonna get people to supplement their diet well just let them grow them at home too so should we talk a little bit about this the farming
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Yeah, I saw that they have tried all sorts of different material and they keep going back to egg cartons. For some reason, crickets just love hanging out on egg cartons. Well, who doesn't?
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Yeah, so many eggs, in fact, that they typically just throw most of them out. They'll keep some to grow a new generation from, but there's just so many that are just tossed out because they don't have the capacity yet to grow them. I think Bachhuber put it like he could be drowning in eggs if he's not careful.
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He probably really does wake up every night from the cricket chirping. Oh, I never really thought about that. That must be nice, actually.
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Yeah. Roughly. Yeah. And if you can do this yourself at home, you just need basically two terrariums. You need to put them near heat because that is substantial. 85 to 95 degrees is hot, way hotter than you're going to keep your house. So you do need like a heat lamp of some sort. And you need water, a source of water, too. Those are the two most important things with raising crickets.
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And the reason you have two terrariums is because in the one where you have like the 30 initial crickets, say, you're going to put a dish of soil and that's where they're going to lay their eggs. You want to check the soil every day for eggs. And when you find eggs, you take that little soil dish out and put it in the other terrarium.
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And then that's where the eggs are going to grow and hatch again. And when the crickets hatch, they're fully formed. There's no larval stage, right? They don't go from like a maggot into a cricket. They're fully formed. They're just much smaller, right? Yeah. And according to Aristotle, it's about around here or maybe within the next like week or so that they're the most delicious.
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Yeah, Aristotle wrote in his Historia Animalium, actually he was writing about cicadas, that they're better before their last molt. So I guess that wouldn't apply to crickets. No, it would, because they molt. Did they? They do molt. He also said that females taste best after copulation because they are full of eggs. After Aristotle has copulated? Right. Or after the cricket happens.
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Instead of a cigarette, you just eat a pregnant female cicada.
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Or it'd just be like, oh, man, he just keeps going on and on about cicadas.
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Yeah, apparently they eventually freeze solid. So they spend about 24 hours in the freezer and then they're ready to be sold.
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Either ground into, say, like a powder or baked into a fried snack or sold to somebody else. But that's that. And I was like, do they wake up then if you heat them up in a pan? But apparently after 24 hours in their frozen solid, they're dead. Yeah. But to them, it's just like going to sleep forever. Yeah.
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Supposedly, it does not count as vegetarian.
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Yeah, I saw crickets referred to as mini livestock, all one word. Yeah. I mean, they are a living animal, for sure. So I guess it's a personal choice, it sounds like. Yeah. Just like, you know, vegetarians eat fish sometimes, too.
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I guess, but I've met plenty of vegetarians that are like, I'm a vegetarian and I eat fish. Leave me alone.
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We need a big bowl of chirps right here.
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Yeah, those guys too. Wow, I'll bet they're not the sharpest tacks in the box anymore.
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Yeah, you could cook almost anything with butter, salt and onions and you're fine.
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Yeah, I think that one guy who advertised on Craigslist. He did. Yeah, he sauteed with, yeah, onion, you're right. Penis, I think it was. Say what?
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Yeah, and you want to clean them off, too, if you're cooking them from raw. I guess so. Because, I mean, they're bugs. That's something you want to do.
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I guess so, yeah. But I think, like, if they're already prepared, you're probably okay. Because one of the big things that, like, Bockhuber did by getting FDA approval, like, now you can't just raise crickets on just anything, right? Like they have to be fed food that is okay for humans to eat too.
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Which is something that the cricket farming industry is running up against because one of the big things proponents are saying is like, man, you could raise crickets. If you had large scale cricket farms, you could raise crickets on food waste. And if you do that, not only are you like raising your crickets, you're also getting rid of Food waste, you're composting basically, right?
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Composting, that's the way you say it. But apparently the FDA is like, no, you can't feed things food waste, you nut job. You're going to eat it eventually. So there's big rules against it, but I think they're trying to chip away at that as well.
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Yeah, not okay. Yeah, that's not right. So I saw in, I think, Popular Science, they had a little nutrition facts thing for crickets. It's so cute. They said for 100 grams of crickets, you're looking at about 120, 121 calories. Okay. Um, you've got, uh, about five and a half grams of carbs, 12.9 grams of protein. That is substantial.
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Um, 75.8 milligrams of calcium and nine and a half milligrams of iron. That's also pretty substantial. Just from a hundred grams. I think they estimate that's about 20 to 22 crickets. Um, like a handful and a half. Yeah. Nice. That's pretty good. And the idea that if you are just raising crickets yourself, you can feed them your own kitchen waste. Yeah. And then eat the crickets yourself.
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There's also very low barriers to entry into cricket farming. So if you're not a wealthy person and you need to make some extra money, you could conceivably raise crickets yourself and then sell them at market too. It's like podcasting. Exactly. Exactly. I think that's it.
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All right. Well, that's cricket farming, everybody. Go make it happen. And in the meantime, you can look up this article on HowStuffWorks.com. And since I said that, it's time for Listener Mail.
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Smack them with a length of dry bamboo and say it again. Say it again.
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That was pretty great, Mary Jean. Your brother is a little social engineer, isn't he? I like that. And thank you also for the spoiler about Kevin Spacey becoming president on House of Cards. If you want to get in touch with us like she did, you can send us an email to stuffpodcast at howstuffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.
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Man, that's like how some people commit suicide. I know. You know? Yeah. And these guys are just doing it gratis for you.
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Yeah, I'll bet. I'm glad you made it, man. You look good. You look okay. Thank you. You look healthy. Your pallor isn't gaunt. I think you're okay.
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I know. They put me to sleep. I'm glad we set that up. That was pretty good. That was one of our better segues, sadly enough. Thanks. Yeah, we are talking crickets, aren't we?
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Yeah. They're, I mean, they're pretty easy to raise. Uh, they don't require much space. Uh, you can set up your own cricket farm at home. Um, And really, we should say the point of all this, the whole reason anybody would want people to start raising crickets at home is because the well, the the earth is about to collapse and our food supply is in in real danger. Right.
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So I've got some stats for you, Chuck.
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So meat consumption per capita has increased into the developed world. Actually, it's doubled in the last 30 years. And that's thanks in no small part to the rise of the BRIC countries, Brazil, Russia, India, and China, who have huge, massive populations. And as they entered the capitalist global economy, have generally become enriched by
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And the more money they have, the more meat a civilization tends to consume, at least these days, right?
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So that doesn't seem bad in and of itself until you look into what kind of resources it takes to actually raise meat. So you ready for this one?
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I'm afraid. To produce one pound of meat, that's a half a kilo, basically, of meat. Is this beef? Beef, sorry, yeah. It requires about 2,400 gallons of water.
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Which is, like, absolutely nuts. Even when you consider that not only are you watering the cow, you're also watering... you know, the crops that you feed to the cow. So there's double water consumption. But one of the problems, one of the reasons cattle, beef requires so much water is because you only consume 40% of the cow.
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So 60% of the water is going to sustain parts of the cow you're not even eating, right? So there's a lot of wasted water, even if your water delivery system is 100% efficient, right?
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And one-third of the world's adequate or high-quality cropland has been lost to erosion or pollution in the last 40 years. Now, that's a huge problem, whether we are all vegetarians or not, because we're talking cropland. But we use way more cropland to feed our livestock than we do to feed ourselves, right?
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Something like 56 million acres of land are used to grow crops in the United States to feed animals. Four million are used to grow crops for human consumption. So there's a lot, a lot of resources that are used up just from meat-based diets, right? A lot of people say, well, just go to plant-based diets.
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And other people say, you can't get enough protein from plant-based diets, which apparently is not true from what I'm seeing. Other people are saying, fine, you want some protein? I got something for you. And it's crickets.
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Well, that's kind of heartening. Like if, if there does seem to be, if I guess if, if societies follow. Yeah.
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Well, there's a, I mean, it's definitely associated with wealth, right? If you can afford to eat a nice steak kind of indicates you have a certain amount of status in your society, right?
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I don't argue with that part. That is pretty indulgent. Three martinis and a 20-ounce ribeye for lunch. I mean, that was Don Draper, you know? Yeah. I never saw that show. I know. I never saw it. It's available. Where? Is it out there, really? I thought they erased it all. Yeah, they did. They said, that's it. It's done. Didn't he go become a lumberjack at the end? No, he did not.
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I actually never saw the end of that one.
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Apparently it's a $20 million industry already. Not bad. No, it isn't. And we should say that Bach Huber is one of several people who are into this, the idea of cricket farming, commercial cricket farming. Yes. And he's definitely one of the OGs for sure. His business was the first to get approval from, to sell crickets as food in the United States. You got FDA approval.
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Because the cricket industry actually is kind of old. Well, it's not too old, but I saw anywhere between 50 and 70 years old in the U.S. And they're raised to, say, feed fish for commercial fish farming or to grind up as a protein supplement for livestock feed. So people have been raising crickets for a while or to feed to, like, reptiles to sell them to pet stores.
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So there was an established infrastructure of cricket farming, but making the transition from selling it to feed to cows or fish or snakes to selling it to people to eat directly, that was a big step. And Bach Huber was the first one to take it in the U.S.,
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I should just say the reason I point out he's just one of many is because this HowStuffWorks article is basically like, here's my report on Kevin Bachhuber's TED talk. Sort of. You know?
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I think just he definitely deserves, you know, credit because he's leading the charge, but so are other people as well.
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So I saw, so this article kind of says the standard 80% of the world regularly consumes insects as part of their diet. I saw that there's a food and agriculture organization, the UN organization report said something, it was more like about a third of the population rather than 80%, maybe like 30 to 35%. Which is still significant. Yeah, that's a big difference. It is.
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And in the West specifically, the idea of eating bugs is not commonplace, right? And I actually saw a pretty good explanation for why. Like 13 of the 14 large livestock animals that are domesticated are found in Eurasia and made their way over to the Americas. Right. And those things, those animals provide not just meat, but also things like milk and clothing, everything basically.
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So since these, what you would call Western countries, had access to these domesticated animals, they never needed bugs as a food source. And then secondly, since they were raising domesticated animals, By definition, they had a sedentary agricultural lifestyle, which meant that their exposure to bugs was bugs as pests.
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So not only were bugs not edible, they were something that were just undesirable on their face. Oh, sure. So that led to the... It closed the door on bugs being eaten by Westerners. And so that came to be filled by a sense of disgust, which is a basic human emotion, but it's the only one that's culturally bound, which means you learn what is disgusting from your cultural group.
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Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry Roland. So this is Stuff You Should Know, Scratching Edition. Yeah, this is one of many. You remember when we did yawning? Yeah. Well, that's the only one I can think of, where just researching something makes you do the thing you're researching. This definitely happened with this one.
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We'll just cut to the chase here. This is why everyone's listening. How do you scratch a niche correctly? You rub it.
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Were you biting down like a broomstick while you were doing that?
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So we'll actually talk about this because you're raising some great points here.
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No, no, this is good stuff. We're going to analyze what was going on with your arm after this break. How about that? Sounds good.
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Hey, everybody. It's Chuck and Josh here to talk to you about Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easy to build the website of your dreams and do whatever you like with it.
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Yeah, and when it's time to collect that money, Squarespace offers an easier way to collect payments so you can focus on growing your business. You can invoice clients and get paid for your services, turn leads into clients with proposals, estimates, and contracts, and simplify your workflow and manage your service business on one platform. What else could you possibly ask for?
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Well, I'm glad. I've been wanting to do this one for a while.
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So what happened was something in the cement, and I'm not sure what it was, reacted chemically with the mast cells in your skin. Yeah. And histamine was released, right? Apparently. And so the histamine sent a signal through specialized nerve cells called C-fibers to
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Right, right. So they use the same type of neural pathway as pain, but for itch, basically it's just like, no, these are just for itches only. Yeah. And it sent a signal through your spinal column. And in your spinal column, it released a neurotransmitter called gastrin-releasing peptide receptor. And so at the skin, the histamine would have released a neurotransmitter called what?
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Okay. So that says itch signal coming your way along those C fibers.
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Okay. It makes it to the spinal column. And I guess in about 2007, they found that there's another neurotransmitter in the spine that I guess accepts the NPPB.
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and says, I'm going to transfer this along up to the brain, that's gastrin-releasing peptide receptor. That shoots up to the brain, and it starts this cascade of activity, right?
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Because when they, like after Handwerker said, hey, you know, itching's its own thing, these other researchers went to town and traced and figured out that there were specific types of itch receptors that were dedicated just to itches, right? Yeah, more germans. More Germans. And Swedes in this case. A couple of Swedes, but mostly Germans. Just for good measure. Yeah.
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And what they found eventually from tracing this pathway, they were able to follow it into the wonder machine. And apparently they made some people itch and would not let them scratch it. And then they had them lay down in an MRI. And they took a brain scan. And they found that there's this whole galaxy of stuff going on in your brain that combined is the itch sensation. Yeah.
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Yeah, we have to just play the whole thing, and then we'll talk about it for an hour after. That sounds good. Okay. I think it was a Brain Stuff video, wasn't it? Yeah, I watched it. Did it scratch your itch? Yeah, I watched it yesterday. Oh, okay. Nice work. Thank you very much. Now we finally arrive at what I was after.
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Right, and maybe go smoke some crack and eat some cake while you're at it. Because that'll help.
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Yeah, that's an itch and then followed by the irresistible urge to scratch it, which apparently research has shown those two do not happen independently. They're part of a cycle.
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There's something called the itch-scratch cycle, right? And so you have an irresistible urge to scratch the itch. It's weird if you think about it. On the one hand, it makes sense where you sense that there's a really hot heat source that your hand is really close to. So you have an irresistible urge to pull it back. But it doesn't feel like an urge.
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It almost feels like an involuntary reflex, right? Yeah, I think it's that quick. A scratch is almost like I'm going to kill this itch. I can't wait to scratch it. Like you're almost exacting revenge on the itch for itching you, right? So a scratch is an irresistible urge where it's like pulling your hand back from a hot source or something is like an involuntary reflex. It just feels different.
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Right, and so you would think that itch receptors are super finely tuned and they cover just this one tiny micron of skin. As a matter of fact, no. Apparently an itch receptor can sense itch stimuli like three inches away from it on the skin.
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compliment yeah no it was great thanks man um so i guess the the point of all that is to say you guys are going you're going right my videos are the best uh that you're going to scratch you're going to feel an itch which is one of the great mysteries of itches it turns out we only very very recently have started to get a handle on
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So the itching is a good strategy if you think about, say, there's a mosquito on you and that's what's making you itch. When you go to scratch it, you're getting rid of the mosquito, maybe even smushed it or something like that. The problem is taken care of. The issue is that itch scratch cycle eventually becomes a vicious cycle because when you scratch, this is what they think is going on.
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This is another mystery with itches. We don't understand how scratching alleviates an itch or why we scratch really, right? What they think, the current hypothesis is that when you scratch an itch, you're stimulating other receptors in the area that aren't itch receptors.
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Right, exactly. It's sending feedback to the brain saying it's being taken care of. You can settle down with the itch. Gotcha. Right? I think. The problem is that neurologically or neurochemically, when you scratch an itch, You're activating those pain receptors in the area, pain pressure, that kind of thing. You're causing serotonin to be released. Right. Natural pain reliever, right?
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Or at least mood enhancer. And what they found is that serotonin, among other neurochemicals, actually exacerbates the itch sensation. So your itch not only comes back, it gets worse.
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No. But I think the reason why it's possible that it could have that effect is supposedly scratching also activates your pleasure center.
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But there's different places where you're scratching on your body have different amounts of pleasure associated with them. Did you know that? I mean, I guess so. Yeah, interesting. Interesting. Yeah, but, I mean, think about it. It's like if you scratch your clavicle. Who cares? It's nothing, right? But then you scratch, like, your head, right, above and behind your ear. It's great.
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what itches are yeah um and there's still plenty of mysteries left to it like for example it's bizarre and there's really no evolutionary reason as far as anyone can tell why just hearing about itches or seeing someone else scratch can make you itch right that's that's odd that's that's weird we're seeing a video of an ant crawling up yeah an arm will make you itch It will.
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I think it crosses a line once they're potentially clawing away skin cells. I think that's no longer in the masseuse range or masseur range.
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But, I mean, think about it. If somebody is sitting there, you see a video of some schmo who's got his hand like near an oven and he pulls it away really quick, it doesn't hurt your hand. It doesn't make you feel like your hand is burned. No. That doesn't happen.
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Yeah, I think the itching came after the shingles even. And at first, her physicians were like, well, I mean, you must have damaged some nerves in there. So, T.S. for you, I guess. Yeah. And then eventually, after treating it like all these different ways and it still being scratching… They said, okay, you're crazy. How about that?
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And she said, well, whatever. I still have this itch. Do whatever you need to to treat it because I'm literally scratching this itch in my sleep. It was on her scalp, wasn't it?
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Yeah. Can you believe that? She scratched her scalp so much that she scratched through her skull. And she went into her doctor one day and said, they've got like this green fluid coming down. And then apparently the doctor didn't even say anything.
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It was just she or she was like, excuse me, went and called an ambulance and came back and said, please lay down and don't talk or move or do anything else. And they finally told her after she was at the ER that, You scratch through to your brain. Like, that's your brain you're touching right now.
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She said also in this article, she said that she had a, what do they call them? A roommate. Yeah. Okay, a roommate. Yeah. So she had a roommate while she was, like they treated it. Gave her a skin graft. And then she itched. She scratched away the skin graft. Oh, man. And then they finally were like, okay, you're going to an asylum. And she's like, do they even call it that anymore?
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You're just like, what a stupid idiot. That's what it excites, you know? I hope that guy's hand just burns clean off. That's what I think, right? Right.
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And they put her in this asylum and restrained her, like you said, while she was sleeping. And she had a roommate in there. She said in the article she heard didn't survive. He had scratched through his carotid artery and died, bled to death.
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So... They never really got to the bottom of this. She finally got a doctor. The doctors were like, it's something that had to do with the shingles. This is what we think happens at our doctors, that the nerve endings around the area where she had shingles were so devastated by the shingles that there were just a couple of nerve endings left, and it just so happened that they were itch receptors.
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Yeah, itch receptors. Bad luck. And that those were like really exacerbated by the fact that there was no other competing sensations. Oh. Ipso facto, there's your problem, right? So they said, well, we'll just cut the main nerve to your face and that should solve the problem. They cut the main nerve to her face. She said, thanks a lot. Yeah. And then the itch came back.
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And she's like, you have to be kidding me. So finally she met a doctor who said, I don't think it's your receptors or the nerve transmission. I think it's your brain.
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Not psychologically. I don't think it's a psychosis. I think that the actual itch signal in your brain is being set off without any stimulation or transmission going on. And apparently she was right. But then they were like, good luck treating that.
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They said, a tool, a tool, come on. So the idea, though, that even if this woman was hypothetical, I think Atul Gawande is a pretty upstanding cat and didn't make this up. But even if, say, she was hypothetical, her problem, what the doctors initially thought it was, was that she had a neuropathic itch. Type of chronic itch.
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But then the doctor who apparently figured it all out said, no, no, no, it's a neurogenic itch, another type of chronic itch. And it has to do with whether it's the brain going off or the nerve transmissions going off. Either way, you don't actually have an itch, although you're experiencing the itch sensation.
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One of the best names in writing today. Yeah, that may be my new hotel name. Well, you may be thronged by science fans because that guy's pretty well-known.
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Right. Finally. And then again, they said, there's really nothing we can do to treat it. The one that they've got down pretty well is prureceptive. We've got all sorts of stuff to treat that because that's basically histamine is being released and your skin is itching. So you can treat histamines with antihistamines.
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The other three, you're in trouble, it turns out, as far as it stands right now. Maybe five or ten years from now, there'll be something. Apparently, there is a lot of movement right now on treating this stuff, but it's like they're having to figure out how to block some really otherwise important chemicals in the body, like that NPPB, right? Right.
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You said it, Morgellons, right? And I said Morgellons?
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I don't know. I read another article called Accidental Therapists. It's by a guy named Eric Broodman and it was published on a website called Stat. It's all about delusional parasitosis. but how it's treated sometimes by entomologists, like those extension services at universities.
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Here in the U.S., state universities have what are called extension services where a scientist will basically be there for the public to come talk to about whatever. Usually it's like household stuff or farm stuff, something like that. And apparently entomologists frequently are approached with people who are like, I've got these bugs like crawling all over me. Here's a sample of them.
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Yeah, but you have to be like, I'm not Brad Pitt. I'm Atul Gawande. Right.
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And it turns out it's like carpet fiber or something like that. And these people just can't stop itching or whatever. But it turns out they have a delusion. They don't actually have parasites. My question is, is that our understanding of it now and in five or ten years we're going to know that they had neurogenic itches and we just treated them like they were crazy even though they weren't?
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And it's going to be like a real blemish on the history of neuroscience? Maybe. Or will this idea of psychogenic itches hold up?
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I know what you're talking about. No, it's called the Road to Wellville. Is that what you mean? No, it's called Safe. Okay, I'll check it out.
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Yeah, I mean, have you ever like stopped and thought about something and thought, there's the path to madness right there. I'm staring down it right now. I should probably not keep thinking about this.
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Yeah, I mean, somebody can. Like, obviously, like, you know, if you're like, a little left, a little left, up, up, up. Yeah, see, I agree with that.
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I think what they're saying is it doesn't have quite the same relieving properties as if you do it yourself.
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So calm down for now, Atul's mom. We'll get to it eventually.
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Unless you get somebody who really goes the extra mile and puts almonds on the tips to make it look like the claw.
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That's the difference between a baker who loves their job and one who's just in it for the money.
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A couple more things, Charles. Like we said, there's still plenty of mysteries around itches. Yeah. Why, say, does a feather tickle sometimes but itch other times? Uh-huh. Big question. They don't know.
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Only the Germans can save us. You got anything else? No, I don't. I don't either. Itching.
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No, I've been scratching the same spot, and it's starting to get a little tender, so I'm stopping.
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So I guess the moral of this one is, what would Tom Petty do? I'll ask him tomorrow. If you want to know more about itching or what Tom Petty would do, you can type those words in the search bar at HowStuffWorks.com. And since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail.
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They had the itch to explain the itch. I guess so. Yeah.
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That was a very nice email. Yeah. If you want to get in touch with us like Ms. Alan did, you can send us an email at stuffpodcast at howstuffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.
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It is. And actually, it's so on the money that anywhere you look in the medical literature, whenever they define itch, word for word, that's the definition they use. The Haffenreffer? Yeah. Although poor Haffenreffer doesn't get credit for it all the time. But that's the one. The only expansion of that that I've seen is that can occur anywhere on the body, which apparently is true.
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Oh, I hadn't thought about that. I'm pretty sure that I was – I don't think I scratch as much as – I don't know. You raise a really good question.
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Right. I'm surprised that that's not already a TV show, frankly. Josh and Chuck scratch? Just being followed around.
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Oh. You know? No one wants to see that. Well, that's probably why it's not.
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See, that's what I'm saying. I don't think I scratch this much.
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Yeah, do you know what a falsifier is? Us? No, really, isn't that somebody who bears false witness or somebody who falsifies a document?
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Sure, apparently. There's a special place in health for them, literally. Well, I guess actually not literally. Figuratively. Sure. Literarily.
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Yeah, and that's still, as far as I know, the evolutionary hypothesis for why we experience itching. Yeah. And it's not just us either. Well, you're scratching like crazy now. It's found throughout the animal kingdom from us to apparently fish have shown scratching behavior. Yeah, that's crazy. Fruit flies. How does a fish scratch, you might ask? It rubs up against rocks. Yeah, it's kind of cute.
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Right, because up to this point, up to actually 1987, everyone thought that an itch was just a low-grade pain stimulus. Yeah, I guess they were just happy with that. That's just what they thought it was. And Handverker said, you know what? Let's find out if this is actually true. I'm tired of sitting around just assuming this is fine. I'm Handverker.
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And he got to Verker with his hands testing this, right? So what he... I know it was like Jonathan Strickland level puns. What he did was... This is just awful.
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He introduced using like electrical stimulation, I guess. He introduced histamine to skin cells, right? And histamine is a natural, I don't know if it's a protein, but it's a natural chemical, right?
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that the body releases in response to certain stimuli, say, for example, like a mosquito bite or something, and it triggers the inflammation and immune response in that area, right? So histamine is associated with itch, and it had been for a very long time. So this guy was using electrical stimulation to introduce histamine in increasing amounts in these poor study participants.
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And it went from barely noticeable to, this is a quote, the maximum imaginable itch. And they never felt pain.
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They said, please, please, for the love of God, stop. Let me out of this. And Handwerker just cackled and cackled. Right. These men with like black leather gloves were holding the participants down.
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Yeah, that's nice, man. This would have been pre-Euro, I think. Oh, yeah. Even though the EU was around, I don't think the Euro was around in 87, right? No, no. It was the 90s?
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Yeah, because, I mean, if it's not just a low-level pain sensation, then that means it's its own thing. And if it's its own thing, it probably has its own system, and we need to know more about it. So they got to study in it.
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I don't know because from what I was reading, and all of this was pretty recent stuff, there is a real unmet medical need in dealing and addressing chronic itch. Sure. Because most people who go through life just experiencing itch under normal circumstances, right? Let's say you or me, we're like in itch, yeah, they suck for a second and then it goes away.
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Imagine it not going away ever, whether you're asleep or awake or swimming or in outer space or doing whatever, you're itching constantly. Supposedly, it has as much of a pronounced effect on a patient's life as chronic pain does. It's constant, persistent, and agonizing. And it's not being met or treated because it's not understood. So they're just now starting to get into itch research. Yeah.
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I saw that somebody put it where pain research was about 20 years ago. So it's starting to really heat up, but we're still just starting to understand it. So I would think that they weren't looking to cure it. I think it was just pointed out that there was this whole branch of neuroscience that was totally not understood. So get to work, neurologists.
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You just go out there with your hands bandaged up just holding them up. Like how do you fight that on camera?
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Tom Petty grins and bears it. He had a hardscrabble childhood. He sure did. It prepared him for that. I'm going to see him tomorrow night.
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Well, it's a good question. Thanks. Do you remember when Costas had red eye at the Olympics and he was so dedicated to being the commentator, the anchor for the Olympics, they finally were like, you have to stop.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you can go buy a whoopee cushion if you really need it.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Well, very well. I mean, there's like a whole Sprite high C punch camp that is like crazy for that stuff. Yeah. It's carbonated.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Actually, that sounds terrible. That'd be mineral water mixed with it. You just want plain club soda.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yes, it definitely would. I have no idea what that would taste like after that point.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yes, for sure. I get what you're saying. I guess it's kind of brown right now.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Okay, well, that's it for White Elephant. There is one quote I wanted to read from Nella Bailey McGough. Oh, boy. Do you know the one?
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They say that the mixture of gag gifts and gifts people actually want combine to make the nitro that fuels this amazing game. And I guess that Nella Bailey McGough would be a really fun person to play White Elephant with. Totally.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
I think you should announce what's going on to everybody.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Hey, let's hit that interstitial Christmas music again as we mosey on over to the next segment.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Oh, okay. Which one do you want to do first?
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah. I know them as Christmas. I didn't realize they were Easter. But, yeah, they're super Italian, and they're so Italian that it shares a root word with pizza. Yeah. Pizze, which means round and flat, which is pretty impressive that they fit round and flat into just one word. Yeah, that's true. The L in pizzelle means small, and the A in pizza means personal pan. Right.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, sounds good. I also saw a savory one, lemon dill. I'm not crazy about that, but that was the most exotic one I found.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Oh, okay. Because I was going to say maybe it was a recipe from the elks.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
So it's also really simple to make, too. It's just like sugar, eggs, flour, maybe butter, maybe olive oil, if you really want to get Italian. And then, like you said, some of those flavorings. And then you make it essentially like an old-timey waffle, where you have two irons that usually have some sort of, what is it, bas-relief?
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
emblem or symbol or shape or something like that that the dough cooks into so it transfers the shape to the dough as you're cooking.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, a picture of your grandma drunk at Christmas.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, I don't know where you got this, but there's a Nutella ice cream pizzelle sandwich. I don't even know if this is a recipe, but you just alternate layers of pizzelle, Nutella, and whatever flavor ice cream you want to. Stack it as high as you can get your mouth around, and there you go.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Plus also, I mean, like a fresh pizzelle out of some hot iron sounds really, really good. I mean, even a stale pizzelle is still kind of good. I don't think I've ever had one. Oh, really? You should order some. They're everywhere.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, I would treat yourself and do an anise one, the traditional kind. Okay. It's actually surprisingly good. I'm not crazy about anise, but it's good in this context. Okay. And then get something else that you know you're going to like, like lemon or something.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
There you go. But, I mean, even if there's not, I guarantee you can find these at, like, TJ Maxx if you want to. Like, they're everywhere.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, sometimes mixed in with the blouses.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yes. I did not expect you to say it like that, but nicely done.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
I mean, you basically had it. I think it's bouche. The bouche? I think so. But I know that bouche also is mouth. No. Yeah.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah. Yeah? I'm pretty sure. So I could be saying it. It could be butchie.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Right. And it's a Yule log, but it's an edible Yule log, and it's really closely identified with France.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
That's so great. One thing I've noticed when you look around and read Christmas stuff and try to find Christmas stuff, grandma is almost invariably portrayed as a drunk.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah. And then there were – I think this actually is like a pagan rite even that they would light this. And it was supposed to last from Christmas through the new year. So at least three days. If it didn't burn for three days, you did it wrong. And your next year was going to suck. But if you could at least make it three days –
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, you were probably going to choke to death on an apple the following year if it didn't make it three days. But if it makes it three days or longer, great. And so to kind of game the system, usually your Yule log would be like damp, like very green and very large because that wouldn't be the only thing you're burning. Like you needed to cook. You needed to keep warm.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
So you had fires going this whole time. So to keep this log going for at least three days, it had to be of a certain type.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, and the ashes even were thought to prevent lightning strikes, so you'd want to cover yourself in it any time you went out in a rainstorm, I'm guessing. They would use the coal in medicinal preparations, all sorts of stuff, right? It was a big deal. The problem is, and our friend, well, I guess our online friend, this person whose article we came across, Lucy Rose, on Beyond Broche,
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
brioche on frenchly.com wrote a great article about this and uh lucy rose said that eventually over time hearths just kind of started to disappear yeah like um so the center of the house where the yule log used to kind of do its thing at the end of the year um lost its its setting so people still kind of followed this tradition but they would just set a log on the dinner table and
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Boozy breath. Yeah. Like I found a recipe for something or other. It was like grandma's version. It has like whiskey and rum in it. Yeah. Everybody's grandma gets drunk apparently on Christmas.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
And just look at it. They didn't set it on fire. So it lost a little something. And then eventually somebody was like, hey, why don't we eat that thing? Let's make an edible version of this and eat it. And that's where the bouche de Noël came from.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, and sometimes, like, the more modern ones, they'll come in all sorts of colors or whatever, and they look very sleek, like a Swiss cake roll, essentially. But the traditional Buche de Noel is, like, you can really kind of go to town with it, not just making that bark effect, but you could make additional smaller jelly roll cakes that you roll up and make as, like, branches coming off of it.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Some people go to the trouble of making meringue or marzipan cakes Mushrooms, like little toadstools growing out of it. So cute. Yeah, it is super cute. Like a really well done bouche de Noël is adorable. So much so that you don't really want to eat it. But from the description of the ingredients, I would eat it anyway.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
And there's actually, it's not that hard to make, and there's some recipes that Lucy Rose recommends. There's one from Le Grand Wheel, which is a legendary French restaurant in New York. They had one published in the New York Times in 1982. Then the other one she recommended came from Jacques Pepin, his classic Bouche de Noël.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
No, and while you're out at those bakeries looking for Pazelle, try a French bakery and see if they have a Buche de Noel. And if they don't, but you really want to try it, they sell them online too.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, they really are. Don't they look cool? Do you see any with the toadstools?
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah. I mean, somebody with the right kind of fork could really go to town. So let's move on, huh?
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
I think the stratosphere right along the edge of space.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Okay, Chuck. So we're talking, I think now we're going to move on to a segment on Christmas trees in the White House.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Those of you who don't live in the United States, the White House is where the president lives.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, apparently. So that was 1889. And I think electricity was brought to the lighthouse two years later. The lighthouse? Yeah, I said the White House, didn't I? You said lighthouse, but I love that. Okay. It made it light. Well, white is a light color. It's the absence of color, actually. So the electricity was brought to the White House in 1891.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
And yet 30 plus 40 something years later, FDR, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, still celebrated with a Christmas tree lit with candles.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Well, that was Franklin Roosevelt. Teddy Roosevelt has his own interesting story.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, that was – I mean, that's it. There's apparently a huge misunderstanding over the years that he was such a conservationist. I guess historians retroactively reasoned that the reason there wasn't Christmas trees during his administration was because he didn't want them cut down. But the answer is they just didn't celebrate with the Christmas tree.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
That wasn't their jam, which is pretty typical at the time. I mean, people having a Christmas tree in your house, you know, when you celebrate Christmas is – Fairly modern, certainly way more modern than the turn of the last century.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yes. Which is sweet, you know? Sure. And then there was also a record that was set by Dwight D. Eisenhower in the 50s, I think in 1959, for the greatest number of Christmas trees in the White House at one time. And he really macked it out with 26 records. Christmas trees in the White House.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, that's how I'm taking it. I mean, Holly Eitenmiller's, the name of her recipe just says it all, I think.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
And for years and years and years, no one even tried to beat Eisenhower's record until I think, what was it, 1990, when the George W. Bush administration blew it out of the water.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
It was so-so. But how many trees did he have?
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah. And the Obama said, nice try. Watch us. Hold my beer. Yeah. 62 trees in 2015. And if you look at all of these different competing numbers of trees, these records just being broken and beaten and tossed and dashed over the rocks, they all had themes. I think Clinton's had it, it was the night before Christmas. The first Bush had a Nutcracker Ballet theme. The Obamas had Timeless Tradition.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
The second Bush had Home for the Holidays. They all had themes, and they were actually following in a tradition set by Jackie Kennedy back in 1961, who created the first theme, Christmas, that the Christmas trees were decorated with. Again, Nutcracker.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's trying to come, but she's had car trouble, I guess. Either way, she's here in spirit, the Christmas spirit, and this is Stuff You Should Know.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, I don't know how how recent this stat is, but I know that North Carolina was chosen again, kind of as a nod to the battering by Hurricane Helene this year. President Biden, I think, chose one from western North Carolina. Cartner's Tree Farm in Newland, North Carolina, was the one who is sending the White House Christmas tree this year.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, there was one that was anonymously donated from New England, which sounds suspicious. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
That's the one that's coming out of Cartners this year, too, a Fraser fir.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, WhiteHouse.gov needs to get on this. Yeah, that's right. Update your site already. So, yeah, that's it for White House Christmas Treats, huh? I think that was a pleasant little journey. Thank you. Through a political minefield.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Okay, Chuck, it's next. Next up, I'm pretty psyched. We're going to do another twofer segment, aren't we?
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yes, but first, how about some more jolly music from our friend Jerry?
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
You do. You are. It's like a reference to a city in Sumeria or Mesopotamia or something like that, like one of the first cities. Oh, look at you, Mr. Smarty Pants.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
It is. They shoot two-a-days is what they call them. They complete two films from scratch in a day.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Right. Wait, I thought I was Johnny in this one. No, just shut up and wear this.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah. It turns out that we're going all the way back to the 1890s, but we should go back a little before then. In France, France, apparently, I didn't know this, was like the center of filmmaking. Did you know that, that that's where it originally kind of came out of?
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah. So them, there was a guy named Louis Le Prince, who is considered as having filmed the first surviving or the oldest surviving motion picture, which you've probably seen before. I know you have, but I'm saying you, the listener. It's a horse running. And it almost looks like a flip book. It's that primitive. Yeah. And it's referenced, actually. Have you seen that movie, Nope? Nope.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Oh, yeah, sure. Remember when they show up on the set, they kind of give that spiel about their family and the horses, and they say that that was their ancestor? That's what they're talking about. It's just a two-second-long shot of a horse running with a jockey on it. I'd like to see that again. Nope, or that two-second-long shot.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Prepare, Chuck, one shot of Captain Morgan gingerbread rum.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Right. Yeah, they hadn't figured that out quite yet. That was the next year, probably.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Just two years later, after that 50-second clip was called The Arrival of a Train. It really gets across what you're watching. But it's just two years after that, a guy named George Albert Smith became the creator of the very first Christmas movie, uncontested. No one had ever made a Christmas movie before until George Albert Smith came along and put 76 seconds of goodness on film.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, right. And then once he gets into the chimney or out of that additional shot that's showing him on the rooftop, all of a sudden he's in the kids' room. And it's like an editing cut, but also it was edited just a little early or a little late so that you can see him coming through the black curtain that he's suddenly appearing from. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Do you remember I tried to get liquor delivered to you as a condolence like a year ago and it just did not work out? I tried like five different services and none of it worked. I don't remember that.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
I can't wait till Polar Express comes out.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
I think we also we talked about that in the Uncanny Valley episode.
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The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, he was a little slim for a Santa. I think that added to the creepiness. But yeah, no, he was nowhere near the creepiest Santa of his time.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
No, he was uncredited. So the first Santa Claus on screen, the first person to play Santa Claus on screen, no one knows. We'll probably never know.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
No. And shout out to Justin Childress on Edgeland Today, who helped us with this, did some great research and made a nice little article.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
It is sweet, isn't it? Did you watch it?
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
I kept texting you, like, are you going to be home at 6 p.m.? Are you going to be home at 3 a.m. tomorrow? Are you going to be home at noon today?
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Okay, so in 1982, Christmastime 1982, there was a cavalcade of familiar characters who made their debut in Christmas specials, right? Mm-hmm. You had Pac-Man with the classic Christmas Comes to Pac-Land. Yeah. Something good. The Smurfs Christmas special, which actually is quite good. I was too old for Smurfs, so.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
I went back and watched it like last week or a couple of days ago and I was like, this is pretty good.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
And then far and away the best of the bunch that came out in 1982 and among the top ever Christmas TV specials, if you ask me, was Ziggy's Gift, which is, like you said, incredibly sweet.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah. And so he was like indefatigable, even though basically his entire life went wrong at every turn. Yeah. And he could be affected by that. He was put off. He was mad. He wasn't like he was some sort of smiling automaton. But he returned back to his like upbeat outlook on life very quickly. Like that was his default setting. And just reading Ziggy cartoons, it's like it does it to you.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
You know, it really brings it out. And so Ziggy had been around since, I think, in the paper since 1970. And it built up like a pretty good audience by 1982. So it was a big deal when Ziggy was coming to TV. Tom Wilson, the creator of Ziggy, did a bunch of interviews with different newspapers. And everybody was quite excited that Ziggy was having his own Christmas special.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Oh, it sounds delicious, but I could see that.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
I also, I just want to make a little note here. A shot is very ambiguous. You could make a court-sized shot. You could make a little tiny shot. Like a shot is another way of putting one part together.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, it beat Charlie Brown twice, two different Charlie Brown specials.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
There was just no chance that anybody was going to beat Ziggy's Gift that year. Yeah. And also, not just the animation. I mean, like, animation buffs are like, this is a classic masterpiece of animation. But the plot, too, was really good. Like the thing seems longer than 22 minutes, not like it drags. They just packed a lot into this 22 minutes, even though it just kind of takes its own time.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
That's great. It's pretty funny in a lot of places. It's sweet throughout. And all this kind of came together and formed this perfect, sweet little 22 minute Christmas special.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
That's great. So, yeah, the whole thing came together to make this really great Christmas special. But what's puzzling about it is it didn't become an enduring classic. Like the latest I could see on good old newspapers dot com was was 1986. That's when the TV listings for Ziggy's gift around December just dried up.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
But the great thing about it and the reason why we're doing this, we're covering Ziggy's Gift, is there's like a couple of generations out there who don't even know this exists and are going to be so happy to find this sweet little Christmas special that I hope everybody who's listening who's never seen it really enjoys. And if you have seen it, it's been a little while.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
If it's been a day, doesn't matter. Go watch it again because it just gets you every time.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, that's another thing, too. You could really get into Ziggy after watching that, and there's a lot of great, like, vintage Ziggy stuff, like stickers of Ziggy catching a rainbow in a butterfly net, that kind of stuff.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Very nice. There's no way to end this better than that, Chuck.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, the whole crew. And back at you, too. Merry Christmas to you and Ruby and Emily, for sure.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah. So Merry Christmas to all of you. Happy holidays to all of you from everybody here at Stuff You Should Know. We hope it's a great one for you. And go watch Ziggy's Gift and feel love. Merry Christmas, everybody.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
All right. This is going to be quite a Christmas episode. The second ingredient, Chuck, is one shot of Grand Marnier.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Oh, I hear it. Yeah, that's definitely two ounces.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
As much orange juice as you wish. I would strongly recommend fresh squeezed. Anytime you're using citrus in a cocktail, just do yourself a favor and squeeze it yourself. It's not that hard.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Okay. I think that's a great idea. And then do you have any ice on hand, or do we need to wait around for that, too? That's what I got in the shaker. Okay. Okay. Yep, Chuck's doing the next thing, everybody, shaking Grandma's Christmas press together. Should I have this up or on the rocks? Probably on the rocks. I don't know.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
It sounds like you got enough ice in there, and this is boozy enough to go up. All right, I'll go up then. We'll see. And then we're going to all wait around here to see what Chuck thinks of this. And also, I want to say I'm not drinking booze right now, but I'm putting away most of a quart of eggnog as we speak.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Okay. Oh, poor Holly. Her Christmas dreams have just been dashed.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Is that rum really coming through or is it getting missed in the orange?
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Or you could add more rum. Well, let's not get carried away here. Okay. Well, I say we move on. Speaking of carried away, let's carry ourselves away to the next segment. Yeah. And as per Christmas tradition, holiday show tradition, Jerry's going to add some really nice Christmassy interstitial music. So take it away, Jerry.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah. So we're going to teach everybody how to play Dirty Santa next. We're doing that with an assist from Nella Bailey McGough. I'm pretty sure that's how you'd say her last name, from Southern Living, who wrote a pretty top-notch article on how to play this, why to play it. And they even turned up the origin of the name, because it's got a bunch of different names.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
White Elephant, apparently in the South, were the ones who typically call it Dirty Santa.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
You've never heard of Dirty Santa? That's all I've ever heard of. Well, aside from White Elephant.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
What about Yankee Swap? That one's new to me.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Okay, well, I've heard Dirty Santa and White Elephant, but regardless, the White Elephant name seems to be the traditional name for this, which is, it's kind of like, it's a party game. You would play it like your holiday party. And in the spirit, basically, of Secret Santa, where everybody gives somebody else a gift anonymously, and then the person tries to guess who gave it to them.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
It's very nice and sweet. This is not, well, it's not supposed to be mean or anything like that, but there's a lot, there's some twists to it that make it dirty.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yes, but the key here was to the courtier who received this gift, I mean, this is a lavish gift. Yeah. But it was a lavish gift that cost a lot and took a lot of effort to keep healthy and happy. Right. So although it seemed like you would really gain the king's favor, the king was giving you a real problem to deal with for the rest of the elephant's life.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
It's such a special tradition. And Chuck, I'm really excited about this particular one because this is a good combination, a good assemblage of stuff, I guess you could say. But add some holly to that.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
So it's a pretty sharp little idea that Yul Brynner came up with. And that's where the name came from, White Elephant, right? Yeah. Okay. So getting on to the modern incarnation of it, I did not see who invented this. I guess the King of Siam did. But the modern incarnation, I don't know where that came from.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
But there are basically wherever you look up rules for the White Elephant game, there's some that are just tried and true. You're going to find them in any set of rules. One of the big ones is set a dollar limit.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
You don't want some person just showing off their Christmas bonus by, you know, they show up with a bunch of Bang & Olufsen speakers or something like that, you know? By setting a limit at like 20 bucks, you're making the people get kind of creative. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Great. But yes, the cheaper, the lower the the the price limit, the more creative the people have to be to come up with something.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yes. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. That's a great, great white elephant gift.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Right. So you, well, not in 2024, pal. Yeah. So you want to, in your invitation, specify, yes, wrap it, get creative with your wrapping, but do not put a to or from thing. This is all anonymous. And then everybody comes on the day of the party and they bring their gift wrapped and they put it in a pile, the pool, as some people call it. Yeah.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
And Nella Bailey McGough specifies, do not put this area near your own family's real presence because you don't want to mix up like that. And then once everybody's assembled and you're usually sitting around in a circle or something so everybody can see everybody else, you draw numbers from a hat.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
And the numbers in the hat number from one to the number of people playing and everybody draws a number.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, there's also an alternate set of rules that say everyone picks a gift first and then the stealing starts. But most of the time you can steal on that second turn. This is where it gets a little hazy. So let's say that you're five people into this, right? So person number five, it's their turn. If they go and steal person number four's gift,
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Now it's time for person number four to go steal somebody else's gift, say person number two. Now person number two has to steal a gift. And this can just keep going on ad infinitum. So usually it's the third time a gift is stolen, the last person has to just go take a new gift from the pile. They don't get to steal or else it just keep going on and on and on.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
And then there's some other restrictions on how many times a gift can be stolen or a person can be stolen from too, right?
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, and usually a person can only be stolen from three times as well, and then whatever gift they're holding on the last time, whatever gift they go steal from somebody else or pick, that's their gift to keep. So you can play strategically here.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
If there's actually a gift there that you want, like you really want that whoopee cushion, you can choose it as your last gift after you're dead, essentially. Right.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Okay. Yeah, I think that's a good idea. And then also we have another theme, movies. Oh, yeah. Or Christmas specials. I don't know. However you want to put it.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
Yeah, essentially once all of this continues on, once this goes around and everybody, say you have 15 people playing, after person 15's turn, you're back to person one because they had no choice. They had to choose a gift from the pile. Now it's their turn to decide to steal. And if they decide to keep their gift, then the game's over.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
If they steal, it keeps going on until you finally reach somebody who goes, I'm good. I really love my whoopee cushion. I'm keeping my gift. Right. The party is essentially over at that point because the excitement has been so charged that there's nothing you could possibly do to top it after that.
Stuff You Should Know
The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!
That's true. That's true. I mean, I was thinking you could drink like gallons of grandma's Christmas breath and it still wouldn't bring about the thrill that the White Elephant game can bring.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
If time is finite and it's the one thing that we all have the same amount of and you can't create more of, then why do you think some people accomplish more things and influence more people? So what's the explanation for that?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
So when it comes to saying no, when I really think about that, a lot of times we know we get asked to do something, we really don't want to do it, and we feel this guilt. What would you say to somebody who struggles with saying no and the guilt or the fear that they maybe feel to go, I really want to say no, but I'm having a hard time doing it?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
I'm so excited to introduce to you Christy Wright, and she is inspiring and enthusiastic. She educates and entertains audiences all across the country. She speaks at business conferences, Fortune 500 companies, some of America's top universities. And so, Christy, I'm so excited to have you. Thank you for being here.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
Yeah. So how do we avoid overcrowding the schedule?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
So you talk about boundaries. What do you see as the connection between boundaries and your calendar?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
So, you know, when we talk about time management, why do you think that is so important today? Why is that whole conversation such a big deal?
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
So, you know, one of the things that's just heartbreaking for me is when people, you know, they have kids and they feel so like helpless, like, oh my gosh, how do I keep up with the spouse and my job and I have kids and all this sort of stuff. Have you seen any sort of common characteristics or traits of people that really do that effectively? Yeah.
The Action Catalyst
REMASTERED: Protect Your Time, with Christy Wright (Business, Time Management, Success, Author)
I love that. So Christy, thank you so much for being here. We wish you the very best.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
For stress, here's what I think a lot of people don't realize is that, and I know that you do realize this, but stress is healthy if it's taken in doses. My wife and I work out all the time and But we always take at least one day a week off and typically two. And the reason is, is when we work out, we work out hard. It's when we don't schedule in times of rest that you're going to have an issue.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
and what's things that you can say no to. And then on the right side, we start scheduling those things in because a lot of us have a work schedule. We have scheduled in to bring kids to soccer practice or whatever it is. You really need to schedule in times of rest, times of joy, you know, in times to live life. And I see this in a lot of people in business professionals.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
This is something where I understand I'm type A. I will go out there and I I'll put it in an 80-hour week, or I would if I didn't have scheduled in times of rest and understanding this. In fact, there's a great book that really hits on this topic. It's called The Powerful Engagement. It's a great business book that everyone might enjoy, but they really talk about this.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
And they actually have done studies on business executives, and they found they were much more effective when they schedule it in times of rest. And that might look like you once a day taking a 30-minute walk in the afternoon and and kind of letting your brain recharge and get refreshed. Even something as simple as that makes a big difference.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
Even taking your time into working out in the middle of the day. Even if it's just 30 minutes, that allows to reset your brain. In fact, in the book, they really talk about it takes 20 minutes of not thinking about and concentrating on something for your brain to reset.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
And if you can take 20 to 30 minutes completely away from thinking and being engaged, it really allows your body to sort of reset there. So anyways, I think in terms of stress, You know, that's an important thing to consider. And I talked about the business side. It's a similar thing, though, with parents, whether you're a business exec or not. I know a lot of moms out there.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
They're with kids all day and they probably get zero alone time in an average week. And so one of the things I work with those moms are doing is getting three hours by themselves a week. And so they can walk through the mall or do lunch with the best friend or whatever it might be. This is really I think it's important for everyone to try and do.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
you know, I know everyone has a different spiritual beliefs, but this is a, this is something, you know, taking a Sabbath or a day off from, from, from the beginning of time. And if you look in other cultures, both in Asian culture, European culture, there is a very long time in the middle of day where people are resting. So,
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
You know, in Europe, lunch is definitely longer, typically an hour and a half to two hours in some cases. In Asia, again, there's times for tea and those sort of things in the middle of the day. And so a lot of times I know business execs in the U.S. are working from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. I mean, that can be common.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
And so, again, you can work as hard. I mean, in most cases, you can work really, really hard, be into things and give it your all. But you have to take at least one day a week off. And you have to schedule things throughout your day that get your mind off things and allow your body to rest. And so your mind, in a way, is a muscle. It has to work if you never rest it.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
It's just like if you're trying to work your biceps over time, if you give it too much of a load, day after day after day, you're lifting these heavy dumbbells. Eventually, you're going to tear it. You're going to injure it.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
and the same thing can happen with our with our with our minds and our emotions if we overdo it and so one of the things i've had my patients do over the years is get out a sheet of paper have them write down on the left side everything that is stressing them out and their work hours and kind of all you know we kind of brainstorm and write out all those things on the right shot side of the sheet of paper i have them write down all of the things they love to do things that bring them joy things that help take their mind off things
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Managing Stress the Healthy Way
And, and whether that be going for a walk or going to the mall or watching a movie by themselves, whatever it is, we kind of write down all those things that they love to do. And so we go down the left side and we start figuring out, okay, how do we better deal with this situation? What can you get out of your life? Because a lot of times we have too many things we're doing.
The Basement Yard
#483 - There's Human DNA In Hot Dogs
He's more of a recluse these days. He is definitely a recluse, but what if he was just like, hey, I want to come on your show. I'd be like, get the fuck over here, Bob. I want to come and talk about the time I did cocaine with Johnny Cage. And then I sang and wrote three songs. That's not bad, right? It's not. It's kind of good. You could have done the movie.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: The 1991 Wheaties Box (feat. David Stassen)
Josh on the pay phone. A long-sleeved shirt with shorts is a much better combination than a short-sleeved shirt with pants. I'll hang up and listen.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: The Fuzz
it i have seen josh what you think bro goofiest team thus far i'm gonna agree with trista and i'm gonna tell you and i'm gonna tell you why you trade luca donchik last year's leading scorer last year's finals runner up before the finals how was they talking about luca Like he was Michael Jordan. You're going to trade him for Anthony Davis when you could have traded him. I would have gave him OG.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: The Fuzz
I'd have gave him Bridges. I'd have gave him Towns. I'd have gave him Leon Rose. I'd have gave him Patrick Ewing. I'd have... Take them all.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: The Fuzz
That's what we should be talking about. Spike, take them all. Stephen A?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: The Fuzz
Oops, oops. I can understand that. How you, like, can swing your arm and, you know, while a baton is in your hand, if the girl might have been too close to you. Did she hit her twice? She hit her twice.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: The Fuzz
With a Celtic jersey. It ain't even hanging on me. It's right here.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: The Fuzz
He's what we call a whore fan. Everybody can get some of Juju. He got every jersey. Bruh.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: The Fuzz
And y'all boy lost to the Spurs. We're missing our engine right now. You really going to judge us over these games? Versus the Spurs, yes. Versus the Blazers, yes. In San Antonio, you're not really waking up to play the Spurs. We really a playoff aspirant. We know we better than the plan. As long as we can evade Giannis in that first round and people like that.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: The Fuzz
Y'all don't have to see every top team. You're going to have to play somebody. I know the game. No, I don't. Giannis and Dame is like that combination nobody's seen yet, and I don't want to be the one team to find out that they them guys in the playoffs. I don't want to be that team again. You found out about Hallie Byrne.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: The Fuzz
You know what it is about the P.J. Tiger pickup? When he come in the middle of the year, it's not the same thing as when you spent a training camp with some young kids and stuff like that. He just came, and when I look at him, I feel like that. You're just here to collect a check. You're not ready to slap nobody. I need somebody that's ready to slap somebody. Wait, wait, wait.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: The Fuzz
Why we got a Knicks segment? I'm not understanding what's happening. Nah, I'm rolling out the red carpet for my dog. Nah, don't roll out the red carpet for me. This is what I'm talking about. And we can't come back at you because you got five teams and you're trying to act like you're a Celtics fan. You're not a Celtics fan. Come on, I'm a Celtics fan only. But with a Celtics jersey.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: The Timing of Thunder (feat. Juju Gotti)
Hallo, das ist Josh von meinem Couch. Encores at concerts are a waste of time. Just play the songs without going backstage.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: The Timing of Thunder (feat. Juju Gotti)
My bold take is ketchup is for kids. I'll hang up and listen.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: The Timing of Thunder (feat. Juju Gotti)
In Chris' Verteidigung, wenn er es nur einmal entfernt, bekommt er die Geräte einmal. Aber wenn er es zurück in den Blizzard packt, weiß er, wie viele Male er zurück in die Geräte muss.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: The Timing of Thunder (feat. Juju Gotti)
Can we at least agree that's the second most egregious thing that we've had happen?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: The Timing of Thunder (feat. Juju Gotti)
Juju, sag mir...
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: The Timing of Thunder (feat. Juju Gotti)
Josh Fart. Ja.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Postgame Show: The Timing of Thunder (feat. Juju Gotti)
The Mike Jacobs thing. That was such a crazy revelation. Are we still on?
The LOL Podcast
Kate Raged and Slapped Kenzie!
And shin splints are in your leg. Wait, what are you calling it? A shin splint.
The LOL Podcast
Kate Raged and Slapped Kenzie!
Well, Miss Zillmer would not laugh, but Harper would definitely scream and then laugh. And then probably go proceed to put it in someone else's shower.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
I'm okay. I appreciate you taking the call.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
I guess I'll cut right to it. I've been following you guys for a little while, trying to get my finances on track. I've come to a
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
other substance abuse issues and i let that go i've been clean from all that and i just kind of picked up the bottle and i'm just tired of it tired doing the same things over and over again tired of relying on something to feel like i need it to function awesome i'm proud of you man i'm proud of you so uh how can we help
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
Well, pretty much my insurance situation, the only way to get into treatment, it covers most of it except for about $6,000. Okay. $6,000 to $10,000, depending on location. So, really not trying to get into any more debt.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
But I want to take care of this.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
I've been calling and asking for scholarships. I've called hundreds of places probably.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
Maybe a slight exaggeration, but I've been on the phone.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
No. That'll cover my insurance.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
Because that's the cheapest thing I've been able to find is a $6,000 copay.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
Yes, that's the cheapest thing I can get. I've applied for scholarships. Okay. They're saying they're not doing it.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
No. I mean, I've got a truck, but it's my work truck.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
No, I'm upside down in it.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
Probably about 11 grand. What do you owe on it? About 200,000 miles on it. 12.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
No, I get what you're saying, but it's a truck with 200,000 miles on it, and not that many people are going to spend $11,000.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
Nope. Unfortunately, no.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
And that's another thing I'm worried about. Finances bills keep coming.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
I've even been looking into detoxes, and it's still about that same number. Just for like a week, detox.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
Oh, no, no, they will. They will do that. That's why I was no interest, but that's why I was on the call because I've already got other debt racked up.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate everything.
The Ramsey Show
The Hardest Decisions Are Often About Money & Relationships
Yes, I want to be. I mean, I'm tired of it.
The Ramsey Show
Quit Trying to Outearn Your Stupidity!
Hey, not much. I got a quick question for you guys and try to be brief. Uh, me and my wife, we just moved out to Phoenix, Arizona about a year and a half ago for my job. As we moved, she was job hunting and you know, she sees, she follows a lot of social media, some influencers and she's like, man, I can do this. So she was kind of doing that on the side, kind of fun, creative, um,
The Ramsey Show
Quit Trying to Outearn Your Stupidity!
thing for her to do while she was job hunting. And a year and a half later, she's kind of blown up all over social media. I mean, she's about to hit a million subscribers, a little over on some TikToks and Instagram. And we're starting to get some pretty big brand sponsorships, some ad revenue, you know, just stuff like that that's reaching out to us, people asking about doing a podcast with her.
The Ramsey Show
Quit Trying to Outearn Your Stupidity!
We haven't said yes to any of this. We don't know how it's really going to affect our family's life. I know you guys kind of handle this. We don't know if it's like, oh, is this something that's going to work out well for us? Do we pursue this? And it's a lot of money that some of these brands are throwing at us or people. What's a lot of money? How much money? People asking podcasts.
The Ramsey Show
Quit Trying to Outearn Your Stupidity!
Go ahead. We haven't cashed in anything yet. We're just kind of on standby because we don't know how it's going to affect our family. If we want our family lives on social media, we're starting to have kids. But we've had podcast people reach out and say, hey, let's do an episode, 75,000. We've had ad revenues say, hey, make a video with our podcast.
The Ramsey Show
Quit Trying to Outearn Your Stupidity!
Product in it will give you $10,000 or $15,000, and that's for a 30-second video on TikTok. That number is real.
The Ramsey Show
Quit Trying to Outearn Your Stupidity!
That's what we don't know. People who have a podcast want her to come on.
The Ramsey Show
Quit Trying to Outearn Your Stupidity!
Yes, sir. Like how lucrative is this? Is it worth doing it? And you guys, I know you guys are all over social media. And so how has it affected your family with people knowing about your lives and trying to, you know, I don't, we just don't know. Is this something we want to dive into and explore or is this going to ruin our lives type of thing?
The Ramsey Show
It’s Time to Stop Surviving and Start Taking Control
What's up? Well, I'm planning on proposing to my girlfriend in a couple months. Nice. And we're both debt-free. Okay. And I'm starting to think about our future in terms of finances. We both agree we need to be on one checking account, and we're going to do everything together. I'm going to try to do everything the right way.
The Ramsey Show
It’s Time to Stop Surviving and Start Taking Control
And right now the type of boyfriend that I am, I like to do a little surprises here and there, maybe surprise her, you know, one day with, uh, flowers or decorate the house and make her feel special. However, how can I still, keep those surprises if we're both on the same checking account. Got you. And have her not question, why are you spending $1,000?
The Ramsey Show
It’s Time to Stop Surviving and Start Taking Control
a gift from me if we're still both depositing our direct deposits into the same account? Sure. Of course it is.
The Ramsey Show
Normal Is Comfortable, but Comfort Doesn’t Build Wealth
Good. How are you doing, Dave?
The Ramsey Show
Normal Is Comfortable, but Comfort Doesn’t Build Wealth
Zebula, North Carolina, a little small town just east of Raleigh.
The Ramsey Show
Normal Is Comfortable, but Comfort Doesn’t Build Wealth
$203,400. Love it. How long did that take? 63 months, right at 5.3 years.
The Ramsey Show
Normal Is Comfortable, but Comfort Doesn’t Build Wealth
And I'm a systems analyst at a transportation company.
The Ramsey Show
Normal Is Comfortable, but Comfort Doesn’t Build Wealth
I'm very thankful to say very little of it has to do with us. So we both were raised with parents and even grandparents that modeled biblical principles for how to handle money from a very early age. So they modeled giving. They modeled investing. They modeled living on less than you make, living on a budget, and just generally managing God's resources well.
The Ramsey Show
Normal Is Comfortable, but Comfort Doesn’t Build Wealth
And I'll give you a short story that illustrates what I mean. So I grew up with a dad that I've always called the boring version of Dave Ramsey.
The Ramsey Show
Normal Is Comfortable, but Comfort Doesn’t Build Wealth
He has a little more hair, but you're a lot more fun to listen to. And I remember one story in particular. He went to a yard sale and haggled with this poor elderly lady for a nutcracker. She had the nutcracker marked at 50 cents, and he walked up, and the nutcracker had a chipped tooth, so he got that thing for a quarter. Well, there you go. That's how you do it. I love it. That's fun.
The Ramsey Show
Normal Is Comfortable, but Comfort Doesn’t Build Wealth
And then if I can say it, so and then college, this is where the Ramsey organization comes in. So I at college found your videos. I'd never heard of you before college. And FPU made such a big impact on me, even though I hadn't actually taken the course. As soon as I graduated, our church started offering it. And I think I took it three times because I liked it so much.
The Ramsey Show
Normal Is Comfortable, but Comfort Doesn’t Build Wealth
And then Rebecca attended the last one. And we also led a couple of small groups. And so FPU was a big part of that. So our story is a success story, not so much because we're fantastic or amazing, but because the people around us are fantastic and amazing. And you, Dave, and the entire organization are certainly a big part of that. And we cannot say thank you enough.
The Ramsey Show
Normal Is Comfortable, but Comfort Doesn’t Build Wealth
Good. Rebecca totaled, well, actually a deer totaled our only half-decent car last Thursday. Oh, wow. So we lost our only decent car. So I looked up the Kelley Blue Book value of our two remaining vehicles, an old truck, my grandfather's truck, and the first car she ever bought, and it's like $4,900 between two vehicles. Yeah, you need to upgrade.
The Ramsey Show
Normal Is Comfortable, but Comfort Doesn’t Build Wealth
We're going to get anything that allows us to have enough confidence such that we're not praying on the way to Ramsey Solutions.
The Ramsey Show
Normal Is Comfortable, but Comfort Doesn’t Build Wealth
So I've been very blessed to get to know a 99-year-old World War II combat veteran over the past few years. He was my grandfather's best friend. And he told me once, once you become emotionally invested in something, it becomes virtually impossible to change your mind.
The Ramsey Show
Normal Is Comfortable, but Comfort Doesn’t Build Wealth
And so I think the key to getting out of debt is simply becoming emotionally invested in it, allowing the stuff to drop from your head to your heart. You know, rain that falls on grass doesn't actually do anything. It's the water that soaks down to the roots that causes life change.
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
Good. So I've got a couple questions. So first off is my wife and I recently moved to a remote town in Idaho where there is no major companies and there's no handyman up here either. So my wife and I decided this year we're on baby step two currently. And we've kind of decided that this year might be a good year for me to start a handyman LLC. I've already got all the tools to do it.
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
The only thing that would cost me out the door is the initial startup through the state for the LLC paperwork and the filing fee and all that. So that's roughly about $500. The downfall is I'm having a really hard time finding business insurance as well as the only thing it would cost me running this LLC is my time and my fuel. That's all it would take. So those are my two main questions.
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
Is starting an LLC at this point in our life a good idea, a bad idea? And then as far as business insurance, I don't know what to do anymore.
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
Okay. So I've been told by multiple companies that because I am too much of a jack of all trades, that they won't cover it because of the fact there's too many things that I can do. They're telling me that I need to specialize in one or two specific skills if it's But the downfall is if I specialize in flooring, then I can't do trim. If I do trim, I can't do painting, stuff like that.
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
Yeah, no, it's fine. So I could get my general contractor's license. It's not overly expensive, but they do require you to put down one or two specialized skills specifically instead of having a large array of certain things.
The Ramsey Show
Your Future Self Deserves Better Choices Today
Well, there's a lot of flooring up here that needs done as well as everybody around here has got a piece of wood busted, broken somewhere. So it's, I mean, it's a little old mining town in Idaho.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
We fight before every party we throw.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yeah. What was your favorite gift you ever got as a child?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Okay. All right.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
What kind of dog was it?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Oh my gosh. That went from one thing to another to another. I think we talked about that in the past, but for those that didn't know about it, Matt wanted to sing a dance, so I just put a piece of plywood on the ground because he had colored our brand new carpeting with permanent marker. And after he got that out, he said, I wanted a stage. So I was creating a stage with his markers.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
So I put up plywood on the ground and I could use taking color on that plywood. He goes, no, I want it to make a noise. So then I put it on a frame of two by four so they could dance. He goes, no, I want curtains. So there I end up. Getting some help from a friend of mine helped create these curtains with a drawstring so I could say, now the show would open up like this.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
He goes, but I want dress rooms on both sides. So it became a big, huge ordeal. So it started off with marking up the floor to plywood to framing to frame to curtains to dress room on both sides so people could go in and out to the back side. And we had lighting. It was a big deal. And I sold it for $150. Like 10 years later or whatever.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I'm all about the fake. We did the real tree. We went out and cut the tree down and argued and fought the whole time. I do not like that experience. It's all in a holiday special that whoever owns those tree farms, it's great. You enjoy yourself, but when it really happens, it's just not for me.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
This is a show.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
We've got to find those old videos. When you were a little kid, and you were doing all these dances and stuff, and he would have his cousins, and they'd give him different things to say and direct everything. It was a lot of fun.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
My dad didn't like to hunt or fish, but for some reason I really wanted to hunt fish. So mine was probably either my first shotgun when I was in eighth grade or an air hockey table that he got my brother and I when I was probably about sixth grade. Those were probably my two biggest and favorite gifts.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I didn't want them to come back.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I was so mad at you.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yeah, somebody told me, never give your wife anything that has to be plugged in. Wait, really?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
It's not like a vacuum sweeper. My dad gave my mom a vacuum sweeper one year for Christmas. Oh, she's so mad.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
We fought the whole time, cutting down a tree, picking out the right. No, not that one. Not that one. And then we get it home. I get it up, decorated. In the middle of the night, I was exhausted. I lost it here. Boom. I just took the whole thing out of the front yard, shut the door, and just went back to bed.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I got lucky. Teresa does not really care too much for jewelry. She doesn't cook. She doesn't really need to have real expensive jewelry or anything like that. Well, I know some women really like that. And of course she looks beautiful in anything she has, but, uh, Yeah, she never really had a need for a bunch of jewelry. Why do you like Marshalls so much, Mom?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
She could tell you about every piece of clothing that she has. Pretty much spot on how much she saved.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
yeah so that program was a really big hit and we made money and the kids saved tons of money the moms would go shopping the day after Christmas to find all these great bargains pennies on the dollar and they would just store it for the year and we would all get together and help store the stuff they'd get it out and the kids would come to the
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
store to shop for their siblings and their parents and their family. And the ladies would help them get all stuff together.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And they see the value of a dollar. It's like, oh my gosh, $5. I got $20 to spend. Help me shop.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yeah.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Oh, yeah. I just drugged it out through the front door.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And as a dad, now that you are, no matter what you get from your kids, you're happy. And you want to see the kids get all excited. So even though you already have 20 ties, you go, oh my gosh, this is awesome, man. And he's like, all giddy. And it was fun seeing the kids get excited about you opening up the gifts from them.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Well, I chucked it. You're lying. Yeah, I chucked it.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yeah, I mean, I drug it out. I was so mad. I was tired.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And I just put it on the front yard.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Powdered sugar on top of baked something?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
No, it was getting water and everything. Because it's a real tree, you've got to fill that thing with water. We had a nice, clean carpet and everything, and it fell over and it was getting... I think this is our house.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
The stuff you got in your house that you don't want and you think somebody might want it.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Past the trash.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yeah, my cousin got romaine noodles. Is that what it's called? Ramen noodles.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And she was so excited about the ramen noodles, and somebody else stole the ramen noodles, and she broke down and cried. Her name is... Don't tell the name. Well, I can just say Sarah. Yeah. Sarah's pretty general. But Sarah still gets teased by the family because she broke down and had a big fit that somebody took her ramen noodles. But she was also like five years older than that.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
So every year now somebody drinks ramen noodles because of that.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And I screwed it in to think around. I had to do some changes to the thing.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Oh, my gosh. This is a nightmare. It's a nightmare. I don't want to give anybody names. That's what I said. Initials are Joe Howard.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Wait, what? So my cousin Joe does not have a cell phone, doesn't have an answering machine, so he's never going to hear about this.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
We had a thing that, you know, because a real tree needs water, right? So then I got the idea of anchoring it to a big piece of plywood. So I got a big sheet of plywood, cut it in half so it's four by four. And put that on the stand and put that... They have to make something for that. And then we had a nice big skirt, so it covered it up.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Poop knife.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I never heard of such.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I've never even. So if you have such a big deposit, you cut the knife to cut it. And I thought this is not true, but you can go on Amazon, buy a poop knife. Google it. I wish I could delete that information from my brain right now.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Brand new Serbian news. But the box says poop knife on it.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
oh clowns clowns jeff does not like clowns our friend so somebody usually has some type of clown and uh yeah he does not like clowns he's like his mom just to petrify him like would buy him clowns all the time so he would just get all these clowns you know some clowns that's so really scary movies they have with like the clown type stuff that's after the kid oh one year there was this stuffed duck
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yes.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And the guy was like kicked out. A drug dealer.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
You guys won the frame. And they had this duck hanging on a wall. And he goes, I know there's cocaine in that thing.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yeah. But nobody ever took it apart and it disappeared.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And he was just making it up, but anyway.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Well, you just come up with creative things, you know? Just to say.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yeah, Teresa's dad would go to estate sales and buy these things at estate sales. Is that stuffed Bobcat still in your basement?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I like it.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I will sell it. I will sell it.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
It was a good conversation piece. Did you have that at school? Or just Caleb?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
It's a coffee table.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
He took it to school. He had it in his apartment. Caleb borrowed the stuffed bobcat and brought it to college. You know how you had Grandpa's longhorn thing?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Caleb had the bobcat. Oh, my God.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Okay. My biggest thing is we fight before every party we throw. And after everybody's gone, she's like, we're that great. That worked out so great. I'm like, you forgot how mean and rude you were to the whole time. No matter how well we plan, it's always a fight. She gets stressed out. She starts fighting.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
It goes around your trees. You don't see it. But that's not like what a typical family does. But the base wasn't big enough for the tree. The tree toppled over.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I love you.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Even on a flight out here, she was stressing out. Oh my gosh, I was not. She was having her luggage pulled to the side and the lady said, there's something in your luggage.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Ma'am, you cannot bring weapons or anything that looks like a weapon. And I'm laughing and I'm wanting to videotape it, but I knew I'd be arrested.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
So I just sat there and Josh and I were looking at each other. And Teresa was just commenting on how her mom flew a few months ago. No, I didn't. And she had air spray and water and stuff that you can't bring in. And Teresa just got done saying, Mom, you don't have anything? Nope. And she had all this stuff in her belongings.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Well, yeah. They make a pretty good size base, but we needed a base as big as that table there.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And Teresa was just saying how I can't believe my mom. And then here she's got weapons.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Well, they offered to check the luggage, but it would have cost us $40 to check in a $1 gift.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Well, think about it. Santa had helpers, right? Little elves. They're taking advantage of little elves to make gifts for your kids. And they're acting like they're all joyful. That is a weird... And they're tiny little elves that are having to work all year.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
So maybe we should do that.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I want to see that movie, Bad Santa.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Who was in that movie, Bad Santa?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I started to watch it, but I got yelled at for watching it.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Ho, ho, ho.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
That was awesome. You got a little deeper. Ho, ho, ho.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
We took the kids to this place where you can feed the animals. We had so much fun with the boys. Oh, my gosh. It was a lot of fun. Feeding the goats and feeding the... Oh, my gosh.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Do you have something you want to talk through right now? My energy drink is kicking in. Oh, my gosh.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
What do we think about that, Mom and Dad? I like white lights. I like just a plain white light. I think it looks better. I just think white light.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I've never had figgy pudding.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I think I had fruitcake one year.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Really?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
The tradition in my family was my Aunt Betty made gingerbreads.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
and she was very well known for gingerbread anatomically correct in gingerbread so i don't know somebody got to the third or fourth layer of the gingerbread and saw breast and other things on the gingerbread and my i think my sister said oh my gosh look at this and everybody cracked up because betty was waiting for somebody to get down to that level she She's gone now.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
But yeah, she would make these gingerbread and they're really good. And we would have these every year. And in one year, she decided to make them anatomically correct. People are going to think our family is so weird. It is. It's a weird family.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I had more... Ornaments that had Matthew's face on it than the other two boys combined.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
She loved that. Yeah. She thought that was so fun that we'd come over there and make gingerbread with her.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
My dad was 34, so she was born before the 40s. She was born in the probably 28.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Did she serve in World War II? Yeah, because my Uncle Buzz was born in 1924, and he was the second oldest. Margaret was 22, so Betty was like born in 1928. Wow.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
So my cousin Cheryl tells a story that she went over to see Betty for some reason, and Betty opens up the door and just flashes her for no reason at all.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Just to get a reaction. Yeah, she'll do stuff like that. Yeah, that's my Aunt Betty. That's Aunt Betty.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Four or five years ago. What? So Josh was home, and I'm out there painting, and it was really hot, and I had a safety harness on.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Hot Frosty. That's the name of the movie?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
What kind of movies are you watching?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Kids are in bed. Let's watch Hot Frosty.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
So when I fell, it caught me, but I was dangling like a puppet, and my ladder went one way, and the chimney was this way, so I was dangling like a puppet like this. It's like Christmas Vacation. And I was thinking the neighbor's going to see me because he had seen me the night before after work. He said, be careful. I said, hey, Jeff. Be careful.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
My favorite is Elf. So funny. Just for a light Christmas thing.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Wait, let's go see Elf on Broadway.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Oh my gosh, yes.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
But Wonderful Life. As you get older. Yeah. I had gone through a period where I had lost a lot of jobs. And it would be Christmases when I didn't have a job. And it was just a really tough time for me. And then I'd see him to see how important family was.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Next question.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I feel like I had a good dad, but yeah, it was kind of rough having several moms growing up and living in different places and moving around a lot. So I didn't want to do that to my kids, my family.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yeah, thanks.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And then when I fell, I was like this, thinking Jeff isn't going to say, I told you so. But nothing was said. And I'm just dangling there. So I started pushing myself. Finally got down. And I went inside. And Josh goes, what was all that banging? I was like, well, thanks, Josh.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
We have. At your grandparents' house after we were married.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Which side of the family was that?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And my brother-laws had the same experience. Sorry, I don't want to say anything more, but yeah.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Every generation thinks they've discovered sex. It's like,
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Nobody watches a video of somebody else brushing their teeth going, okay, I got to do that.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And he's like in there eating his, whatever he's eating. That's such a Josh thing to do. Just like when you guys got locked out.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
We've got to get on to the pictures. Okay. Oh, gosh.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Mom just likes finding a gift of value. Yeah. So she gets really excited if she finds something that's on sale that you guys like.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Which is a great lesson for everybody to know. It's great to get gifts, but I think it's more... You find out there's more value in giving gifts, giving to your kids or giving to somebody in need. So that's why we should be doing what we do around Christmas time is to think about others and help others out.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yeah, she's a loving person. Well, that Netflix documentary, Social Dilemma, does a good job of explaining how that happens. Yeah. Because the more you kind of become polarized, it separates people.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yeah, I used to give money towards some of these charities where they got a goat or a chicken. It sounds funny, but yeah, some cultures. World Vision. Yeah, that's very, very important to them.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
We've told lots and lots of people about it.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And help out a lot of families.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Well, when you're little, it's real easy to do. You were the one who was super curious. You always ask questions about sex and Santa Claus.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Gosh, as he was older. No, you were just a very curious child about everything.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Why do we have to go to bed now? Why do we have to take naps?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
So anyway, Josh did not check on me when I fell off the roof.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I sabotaged that prank you were pulling. I came down to film you guys coming down the stairs, and I saw the coal, and I hit the pause button, ran and got the stuff you put in the basement, brought that up, replaced the coal with the gifts because you told me what you had done. And so when you came down, Josh was excited to see the gifts, and you guys were upset that Josh didn't see coal.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
You would have blown the fact that Santa didn't exist at age three.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Hey, I'm going to pull ChatGPT out and check it out.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Mythological? We need to get you off ChatGPT. If you haven't heard about artificial intelligence, it's awesome. ChatGPT, Google, Copilot was the other one.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I believe there's something out there. You think so? Yeah. Recently, they released some videos that were hidden in the, I guess, the Air Force or Navy had witnessed some stuff going on. Oh, he's deep in the conspiracy. And that stuff was being come out.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I saw the interviews of the pilots that saw what was going on. Of course, there's a lot of goofy, crazy things out there, but I think there's something that exists besides us.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Seeing the excitement and all the joy on their faces is so much fun. So am I doing it for them or am I doing it for me? So part of it is, am I doing it for me? Because I want to see my kids enjoy that and see... Only young for a short period of time, right?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yeah. Think about Disney. Is there really a Mickey Mouse? Is there a Donald Duck?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
But look, kids love it.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yeah. My whole thing is, you know, there's enough things in life that you have to deal with that are hard and everything.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
My older brother, Caleb. My older brother, Caleb. It depends on the timing and where somebody's at in their life. So if somebody just lost their pet dog, you don't say something that might hurt their feelings. Oh, 100%. But later on, you might say some type of joke that at the time, it was just too soon. You ever hear people say too soon?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
That would be our hardest thing. That would be awesome. I want to see Ga. His nickname is Ga because the kids call it, the grandkids call him Ga.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
But I have seen that happen. I have seen that where somebody gets a gift and then they gift it back to their brother and their brother gives it back to them. And what they've done is wrap it. There was some pair of pants that two brothers were gifting each other back and forth. So the first year he got it, he put it in double wrapping paper.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
He told me that though.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And then the next year he put it in a box and triple wrapped it. Then he put it in some type of box that you could only get apart if you use a screwdriver. And it became so big that it became in a crate and they had to get it all the way out. And yeah, it was kind of a joke, but it was just a thing they did.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
White elephant. You re-purposed everything.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
The poop knife. We're re-gifting it this year. You re-gifted the poop knife.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
But still, you're re-gifting it. You're putting it back into the trash.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
So Jess at retail was $25, but she got it for $3.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Thank you. Merry Christmas, everybody. Merry Christmas. Scott, you're awesome. Cleanwater.org. Oh, yeah. Charity water. Charity water. Charitywater.org. So if you're listening to this podcast where you're doing dishes, write this down. Okay. Bye, guys. Bye. Merry Christmas.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Hey, life hack. If you want to decorate early... Go and put your tree up in around October and put a sheet over it. Make it look like a big ghost. And then when Halloween's over, you pull the sheet off and you're ready.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I think, yeah, I've been ripped off. I got one gift for both events, and it really messed with me. Do you have to grill? I've been to therapy, and I'm over it now, I think. What did your therapist say? He said, deal with it.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And then Flag Day is right around that same time, too.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
And the Blues won the Stanley Cup playoffs championship on my birthday a few years ago. So now everybody just thinks of the Blues and they forget about me.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I like Christmas Day. My vote is Christmas Day. But my family, my extended family, would do them Christmas Eve because I'd get with my aunts and uncles. But on Christmas Day, my immediate family would be gathered around a tree.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
We did that. We had wrapped and unwrapped. I was so sad.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yeah, I liked having that opportunity where the kids would be at the top of the stairs at our house. We do this every Christmas. Film up at the top of the stairs and have them come down and see their faces. That was cool. Come down the stairs, make that turn and go, look at all this stuff.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Well, Teresa handled that like 90% of it. Every once in a while, I would blow the budget and get something that I wanted them to have and she would know about it. Like an iPad? What?
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Is that you? I gave you and I guess I gave you guys an iPad. That was like 15 years ago, but yeah.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
Yeah. So, you know, I wanted to blow the budget and get my stuff. But Teresa is a very good shopper. She would buy things in advance. And she likes to have that bargain. And that's her thrill. So I didn't want to take that from her. But I would be more of an impulse person going, oh, my gosh, look at this. This would be great. We would be broke if it wasn't.
The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby
Answering CONTROVERSIAL questions w/ my parents *Christmas edition*
I would be asking for money at the curb if it wasn't for Teresa.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Ender Magnolia: Bloom in the Mist - Gaming Podcast
The man with the beating heart of the indie world firmly in the palm of his hand shouting Kalima Shakti Day. Wait, dang it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Ender Magnolia: Bloom in the Mist - Gaming Podcast
And I'm like, this is, it's the music from hollow night. And then they go like, dad, you're such a nerd.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Ender Magnolia: Bloom in the Mist - Gaming Podcast
It is happening.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Ender Magnolia: Bloom in the Mist - Gaming Podcast
I'm going to say no more.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Ender Magnolia: Bloom in the Mist - Gaming Podcast
Oh, that's such a nice touch.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Ender Magnolia: Bloom in the Mist - Gaming Podcast
It's hard to argue with.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Ender Magnolia: Bloom in the Mist - Gaming Podcast
I love it. You can see his face. Oh, man. He's just like, I just got done hyping Ender Magnolia for the last hour, but I'm really hyped for Tales of Iron, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Ender Magnolia: Bloom in the Mist - Gaming Podcast
Another one. As well. Another one. And again. Again. Again. Sorry. Ryan and Ace just both cringed. No. No more. No, please. I hear it in my nightmares.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Ender Magnolia: Bloom in the Mist - Gaming Podcast
What is it about Metroidvania that makes everybody sad?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So this is I got it because since we're on the topic of the mechs here, the I'll be honest, like somebody I forget where I saw the term diesel punk, you know, and this is this kind of perfectly describes that blend of like these mechs. But we're in the World War Two era. These are not running on nuclear power or, you know, futuristic Protoss technology or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Luke, Scott, how are you guys doing this morning?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And so I, you know, I, you know, we love the term punk. We've heard cyberpunk. We've heard dieselpunk. What's the other one with the people? No, there's there's another one with like people wear the gears and the goggles and all.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. The beauty of gaming is it's held back by only the imagination and determination of those that make the games we play. Gaming is an incredibly varied passion, and it's always amazing to see the different games that studios create for us.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Steampunk. Yeah. And it's like I like I had never heard dieselpunk in my life. But then I'm playing Grit and Valor and I'm like, dude, this just makes complete sense to me. These things look like they are running off of diesel. They're spewing out smoke. Again, you get that feeling of that you are in World War II on that. And so here's the thing, Luke, you're an artist.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Thank you guys for joining us, man. You know, we got to play your demo. We actually talked about this game in, we did an episode on some of the Steam Next Fest games that we came across. And Grit and Valor 1949 was absolutely one of those games. We started talking about it. We mentioned it in the episode. A lot of people from our community tried it out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
You said, hey, you're the lead artist on this. And is...
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
guess my question is like i am not an artist at all like i have zero artistic ability whatsoever so like when when somebody comes to you and says hey we want you to design diesel punk like do you just go like what is that or is this like right up your alley where you've been doodling diesel punk stuff forever and you're like oh yeah man i love diesel punk yeah i mean sort of uh well luckily sort of
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
It really is. It's one of those things. I am a self-professed graphics snob. I love just graphics that just wow me. It doesn't mean that a game can't be amazing without really good graphics, but the visual style of Grit and Valor was honestly very impressive. It really kind of just gripped me right away. I knew the world that I was in. I had that vibe right away. Even...
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Even after the missions where you go back to your home base and you see the layout for all the different buildings and stuff, the vibe of this game is absolutely just spot on. So, I mean, kudos. Scott, you said as a designer, this is one of those things you kind of try to keep everything cohesive and kind of together.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
And Luke being an artist on this and actually being the person that helps create these visuals and stuff like that, too. I got to tap into this artist thing one more time, man, because I view art as somebody that doesn't have any creativity at all. Musicians are like artists, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
And it's like, but if I went to a musician that prefers playing classical music and said, hey, man, I need you to come up with this heavy metal riff for me kind of thing, like, That guy might be like, that's not really my style. Maybe I can, but I don't know, man. Is it the same with an artist?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
With Diesel Punk, for instance, if they come up to you and say, hey, we want you to design this Diesel Punk and make sure that you keep this vibe together, if that's not really your thing, is that more of a challenge? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
We got some very positive feedback from them as well. And so we thought, man, this is one of those games that's absolutely on our radar. We really would like to know a little bit more about. John reached out to you guys, and you both graciously agreed to come on this podcast and talk about it a little bit more. So we're going to get into that here in just a second. But I got to start off, guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
balance things looking visually impressive enough but also on those little maps clear enough you can tell when everything starts exploding what's going on yeah so all right so scott i have to i have to kind of toss this to you because one of the things that we always do is when we play a game or especially if we review a game and we're talking about it we always like to point out like every game has that kind of special something to it
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
We call it the hook, right? And, you know, in some recent games that we've talked about, like Astro Bot. So, you know, last year, amazing game. We played it. We loved it. It kind of took the world by storm. But the one thing that stood out kind of over and above everything else was the sound in Astro Bot. I mean, again, incredible game. The gameplay was awesome. The graphics were awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
But it was like the sound was the thing that you were just like, oh, my goodness. Split Fiction recently, we played that. The variety in Split Fiction, just that constant pacing of changing the way that these games fell, and it felt like 30 different games pulled into one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
So when we talk about what's that hook, that thing that stands out over and above everything else, and it doesn't mean that everything else is bad. It just means this is the thing that when you think about it, you go, man, I don't know why, but that's the first thing I think about. What's the hook for Grit and Valor to you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Grin Fowler releases in five days from the date that we're recording this. First of all, congratulations. Second of all, how are the nerves holding up?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
are these playable or is it just the idea? Is this like the concept of a game or you actually have something like interactive that, that comes out of these two days?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
You're probably, these are probably just polygons or, you know, uh, you know, maps of something maybe, but that's incredible, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
it kind of goes back to the me questioning Luke on the diesel punk thing where it's like, if you don't like something, it's, it gets much harder to work on it at that point where Luke's like, dude, I hate diesel punk. I don't want to do diesel punk. And then it's like, well, I mean, you got to man, this is the direction we're going kind of thing. So.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
All right, so let's, you know, we're a little bit silly. We like to say we're kind of doofuses. We like to have fun and, you know, just kind of ask them.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
You're a doofus. Yes, you are. You're with us, John. You're a doofus. So we wanted to kind of get into some, like, fun-style questions for you guys. I mean, you guys are very familiar with it. How long have you been working on this game?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
I mean, honestly, that's not bad. We hear games taking 8, 9, 10 years sometimes anymore. It seems like it's getting harder and harder to develop games. So we're going to ask a couple of silly questions for you guys here just to kind of get your thoughts on something. So if you were a pilot in Grit and Valor, what mech would you choose to pilot and why?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Did you have one, Josh? Uh, I like the, see, I've always appreciated just speed and agility. Like I play a rogue in almost every game that lets me play a rogue because I like being mobile. I like being fast and like harassing people. Like, you know, I don't know why, but that's just kind of my jam. Um, so for me, the dragon would be like, I liked how fast it was.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
And again, I only played the demo, so I don't know about these kind of later on mechs. And now you guys got me intrigued because I'm like, there's more. Yeah. I assume there was more, but again, I only saw the first three. For me, the dragon is the one because I love being able to just zip around the map really fast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
There is absolutely a purpose and a strategy and a need for some of the slower mechs, but sometimes I'm like,
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
That was my favorite because no one's really... They think they've got things under control and then suddenly... I really like that part, Luke, too, because it's the first time where I went... There's going to be a lot more to this than what I think there is. You kind of get used to the different mechs at first.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
We talk about that rock, paper, scissors kind of where certain types are good against other types kind of thing. And it's like, okay, cool. I've got this down. And then all of a sudden, the mortars start dropping. And that's where I went, oh, oh, this is real time. Like I gotta, I gotta move these guys out of the way.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
So, Luke, you're an artist, right, on the game. So are you the artist? Is there a team of artists that have worked on this? Like, what do you kind of do for the game, I guess, and for Milky Tea Studios?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
And then that for me was the, oh man, there's so many things these guys are going to throw at you, you know, later on in this game. And it really kind of brought, it kind of opened that what I thought this was into like a much broader view. So as something so simple, I'm kind of with you on that, where it really kind of got my brain going. I don't think I know what I'm in for.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
yeah yeah did you enjoy it see i love that man i love that all right so another another question for you guys i asked you about the mechs but what's your favorite pilot or skill that the pilots bring to the mechs because that's a neat little thing there where depending on which pilot you put in a mech you get an ability for that mech that's like a triggerable you know you can activate that ability and so for you guys what's your favorite pilot or the skill that they bring
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
uh i think like a little rc car with a with a bomb on it um oh nice i love it yeah i i found myself using the mines more often than not because i like the ability to just say like here's a choke point you know like you're not getting through here uh i'm with you scott that the the jump jets were the fun like oh man
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Like, there's nothing like a 4,000-pound mech just leaping down on somebody and crushing a little squad of guys or something that's coming up. So satisfying. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
That's amazing. I love it. Oh, my goodness. Guys, we're quickly running out of time here. Talking about this really tall mech and the kind of ideas behind that, it did get me thinking, though. So I got to ask, do you guys ever argue or disagree on certain things? If I'm there and I'm like, dude, I love the tall mech. This is a great idea.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
And somebody else is like, no, man, this is a terrible idea. Like, you know, do you guys like argue sometimes and kind of go like, you know, like butt heads a little bit? Is it somebody just, you know, Scott, I imagine this is kind of up your alley with, you know, being the designer and stuff where you kind of go like, look, it's fun. It's just not working. We're going to scrap it. Sorry. But.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
And then Scott, you are a designer, if I remember this correctly. And so what, like, give us a little bit of, cause like, you know, we, everybody knows like the word designer, but when it comes to a video game, like what does that actually mean?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
I imagine, especially with the creativity involved, the ideas for games, what one person finds fun and another person doesn't find fun, that kind of thing, that a lot of times there's going to be a little bit of conflict. So does that happen?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
I'm a fan of roguelikes. That's a genre that really resonates with me as well. So I'll have to look that one up because I have not heard of that one, but now you got me curious. He Is Coming? Yeah, I think that's what it's called. I'm checking that one out as soon as this is over because I'm curious now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Today, we're going to be taking a look at the very soon to release Grit and Valor 1949 with two of the people that helped create it. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, if he had a grit level, it would be fine because he's a softie. It's John.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Awesome. Well, guys, we are at the end of our time on this. Scott, Luke, thank you guys so much. I mean, number one, for coming on the show. But number two, I am very excited for Grit and Valor. I mean, honestly, again, I have to give you guys credit on this because I played a lot of demos from the Steam Next Fest, and this is one that absolutely stood out to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Um, and I will be picking this up because I think that the, this game is going to be amazing. I love the pacing. We talked about the hook early on and I kind of, you know, I saved mine, but for me, the hook in this one is the pacing of the game because I love that. ability to just sit down, you know, as a dad and, you know, with a full-time job and with a family and stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
I love games that let me just sit down for 10 to 15 minutes, play around, and then, you know, I can save it. I don't lose my progress and I can go do whatever I need to do at the same time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
yeah yeah like honestly so thank you guys number one for coming on the show but number two for the work that you guys have done on grit and valor we get really excited for fun video games and and to to have these experiences and stuff as well so um it comes out march 26th everybody uh you know by the time this episode releases it will be out so make sure you pick up grit and valor 1949
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Um, this game is going to be a lot of fun. So we, we are highly recommending this to people, um, at this point. So that's going to do it for this episode. Scott, Luke, thank you both so much for your time on this. We're pumped for the game. We can't wait to play it. Um, and, uh, you know, we, we appreciate you guys. We appreciate the passion that you both have for this as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Absolutely. So that's going to do it for this episode, everybody. Thank you for joining us until next time. Happy gaming. Toodaloo.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
So is that the overall feeling of the game? Is it more like making sure that we're staying within this idea that we had initially for Grit and Valor? Is that just making sure we kind of stay within these ideas for something?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
So that's really interesting to me because I played, I mentioned it before we started recording, but I came across this demo and we play a lot of demos, man. I mean, as a gaming podcast, it's one of those things where one of our goals is to put games in front of our listeners and say, hey, this was something really fun that we came across. I liked this game. I tried this one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
I didn't like it so much. We are honest. I don't know if you guys know this, but gamers are opinionated. Yeah. We definitely like to tell people what we think about stuff. But I think I put five hours into the demo for Grit and Valor. I mean, legitimately, this one caught me off guard. And part of that was just that cohesiveness. I knew right away what kind of game this was.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
And there's definitely some inspiration from other games. So one of the things, and I've seen this mentioned a lot of times, is Into the Breach. You know, that there are some similarities to Into the Breach. You guys are both nodding, so I'm assuming that you guys are familiar with that game. Very, very popular game with a lot of gamers as well. I mean, it's done fantastic.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
It's very favorably viewed. But I just, I absolutely loved the kind of twist on that and the evolution of that because it's like, it's real time. Uh, which I like, I love chaos and action in my video games. I love a good challenge. John is probably the opposite of me where he just wants something more chill to kind of relax and play with.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
But I kind of loved the direction that you guys went with this with saying, Hey, here's something that should feel familiar with people. Um, but we're going to give you something you haven't really seen before. At least I haven't. And like I said, I've been gaming a long time, man. Yeah. How would you guys like I generally try to, you know, we're a podcast, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
We do a video, but it's one of those things where, you know, we try to do a good job of like explaining what a game is or the kind of vibe or the feel to a game. How would you guys describe Grit and Valor to somebody that's never heard of it before?
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
A little sandpaper humor early in the morning? Come on, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Love it. And joining us from Milky Tea Studios, they're faster than a dragon, more durable than a thunderhead, smarter than the command vehicle. It's the ironclad duo of Luke and Scott.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I was going to say gamers, we love mechs, man. I mean, you know, whether you like mech games or not, you know, like Armored Core is famously one of, you know, people love the mechs in that. It's very Dark Souls-ish and things like that. But it's, I don't know what it is about mechs, just piloting these giant things and the power behind them. And it's like, dude, I can take it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
This is amazing. Yeah, we gamers, we vibe with mechs, man, for some reason.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Little grit and valor mech, you know, references there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Oh, then you see the saw blade on the one arm and you're like, wait, you can change out the weapons? Like, this is great. Then you start just imagining things. I'm going to age myself a little bit, but I remember being a kid in class and doodling with pencil and paper. And trying to come up with all these different like design ideas.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
And I'm like, what if this one had like a laser cannon and this one had a saw blade? And I mean, I think part of the beauty of that is, is that our imagination kind of comes into play there and we start going like, oh, this would be a wicked combo, you know, that kind of thing. And it's neat because in Grit and Valor, I love that the design of the mechs is so different.
Video Gamers Podcast
Grit and Valor - Gaming Podcast
Like, you can tell just by looking at them that they are vastly different from one another. And I love it, man. Like, I remember, you know, unlocking the Thunderhead in the demo. And I was like, oh, well, this thing's cool, man. This thing's like a big, slow-walking tank. You know, like, this is super neat. So, yeah, I love that variety. And, yeah, mechs are just cool, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Does he have what it takes to face the challenges ahead and go up against two seasoned veterans? It's Ace.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
You did this on purpose, Ace? Dang it, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
I love it. Dang it. That was definitely on my short list, too. You actually played that one.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
You at least have some experience with that one.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Like 400 meters down or whatever it was. And I'm like, you know what? I'm done. I got like 20 hours, 30 hours into this. I'm out of here. This is enough for me.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
I'm going to go with a game that is one of your favorites, Josh. Big time, big time esports game. Very, very popular. I'm going to go with Rocket League.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
It is bittersweet because there's no way either one of you was going to take Rocket League, man. Ace, have you ever played Rocket League?
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. It was that or Rust, so you can have Rust. But no, Rocket League, I've definitely not played anywhere near your level or anyone else's. I played it with my son here and there, messed around. He plays it. I'll sit and watch him, or we'll watch people play the game, but...
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
For how many people play this game and still stream it and how popular it is, it's just something within that world that resonates with people. I don't know if it's just the flipping or the cool ways you can score or all the different angles. Something about it just seems to click out there.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And then they jumped in and they're like, oh, my goodness. Like, this game's amazing.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
I'm the Rocket League. I have 1700 hours in that game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Why do you think I did it? Yeah. Jerk! Listen, you guys thought I didn't do my research? You think I didn't know?
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
It is one of the best indie games ever made. If you haven't played it, you are missing out. I love Ace's face when he started to realize it. He was like, dang it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Absolutely. I really, really grew to love roguelikes when we played Endless Dungeon. When we hopped onto Risk of Rain 2, that's when I fell in love with them. That's what took me to that next level where like... okay, I love this game style. I love the way we can hop in and then us being able to do it together and then just have that multiplayer aspect of it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
There was just, there was something that I never experienced before and it hit all the markers that just makes you fall in love with the game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
You're always talking about this game. You didn't even draft it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
All right, Ryan, we are back to you, buddy. Back to me. So I got two more. You get two picks. Two more picks here.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
I'd prefer you didn't. I'd really prefer you didn't. That is so tempting. Just take intermagnolia. Just do it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Really? That's what I said earlier. Intermagnolia or Ori or something like that, maybe? You never know. I don't think I'm going to do that. I can only poach one per combatant. So you'll do it to me, but you won't do it to Ace, huh? I took Celeste from Ace.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Quit trying to bait me into doing it. Dang it. You know how susceptible I am to peer pressure. I'm going to go with a game for one of our former hosts, Senior Paul, because it's got the best fishing ever. I'm going to go with Stardew Valley.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
It was on my short list. It's one of those games that you just... I can't tell you how many people just rave. And they're like, I just hop on and I just kick back and do all my little chores. And I think, Josh, you said your wife loves Stardew Valley, right? She likes those kind of games.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
It's wild how good, too, on indies the soundtracks always seem to be.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
It just keeps you in the mode and it gets you in a vibe and you just keep playing. So, no, that's a solid one. I figured that would go. I didn't... Like I said, I already took one. I didn't want to take your heart and soul, your baby and her...
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Number five? Number five? All right. So I'm going to go with one that, again, kind of took the world by storm. And it's always weird when... You're not in a certain genre. You don't play a certain type of game. And then everyone around you is talking about and playing this game. And you're like, why is everybody so obsessed with this? I don't get it. I don't understand.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
But people just can't help themselves. And they always keep comparing their high scores. And people are streaming it. And I'm going to go with a game called Bellatro. Bellatro. Oh, my goodness. Bellatro.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
There it is. If somebody didn't pick it, we'd get yelled at for sure. But the amount of people, even in our Discord, that just would not stop talking about it and even just streaming in some of our channels, them playing the game. I'd pop in and I'd watch for 20, 30 minutes while I was doing something and then hop out.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
I mean, it's just one of those games that it's never the same and people keep getting in and just... trying to beat that high score, man. And it's, it's, uh, it's, it's awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
It's like, this is my kind of game, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
And then I've refunded it twice. Two times I've refunded it. I'm sorry, everybody. Please don't hate me.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
tried so hard man it's a cheap game you could keep it and give the money to the dev like oh you know josh literally like 30 minutes in and i'm like nope this game is not for me man oh those devs are rich man they don't need my seven dollars or whatever it is oh man i i legitimately this is like you know how like people like like wine and it's like dude nobody it loves wine and the people are oh no i love wine no you don't
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
I haven't seen my family in seven days.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
That's a great pick. I like my team, bro. That's a great pick. I'm feeling pretty good.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
I knew it! Dude, okay, so here's a little behind-the-scenes transparency. I had that on my list, and then I had some other games on there, and I had scrolled up too far, and I totally forgot.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
And then after I did that and explained it, then I was like, dang it, I forgot Oh, Deep Rock, man. And then I knew you were going to pick it because I was going to do the same thing. Rock and stone. Oh, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
It's definitely, I feel the same. It's one of those communities where everyone's just so happy to play this game that they love that no matter what happens, they're just happy they're there, man. They're enjoying the ride. They'll help you. They want you to be as happy as they are and hop on board. That's such a good pick because that was definitely the one I would have gone with if I remembered.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Uh, I only have a couple, so I'll give mine real quick. I, uh, don't, don't starve. I don't know if you guys have played that game. I, I have played it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
It's wildly frustrating. It's not going to change, but you learn to love it. Uh,
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
for sure and uh fall guys that's just dumb goofy fun um that one's a good one but then uh another one that's that's super high on my list uh lethal company yeah that's that's a game that just um ace and i were talking we were playing uh something else last night we're like we gotta get back into lethal company let's we can i wonder if we can convince josh to come play with us so
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that one's just, I haven't had as much just goofy, dumb fun over and over again as I have with that game. So that's way up there.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
And for that reason, I'm out.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Until next time, happy gaming.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Dang it. I was wondering if that was going to happen.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
There's a few directions you could have gone, but yeah, that's a dang good pick. What a game, man. What a game. Dude, Hollow Knight's so good.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
It almost feels kind of like the Half-Life 3 situation now that it's been so long and there's so much of a buildup and anticipation and expectation. It's got to be great and revolutionary and next level. Otherwise, if it's just good, it's going to be a letdown.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Well, it's funny you say that because I'm already going to start and preface this with I'm going to need a judge's ruling. So I am going to go with a game. It's an older game originally, and it came out in 2011. It is the highest selling game of all time. Over 300 million copies. And I'm going with Minecraft.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
I know my kids would be like, yeah, duh.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
I am not a big Minecraft guy, but I recognize what's there and what it can do and what it's done for indie gaming as a whole. Just ask anyone if they know what Minecraft is. The majority of people, even the elderly, know what Minecraft is. They got some grandson or granddaughter that plays it. It's such a massive game, especially for being an indie.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, just Jack Black and Jason Momoa. And they're like, yeah, we'll make our money back. We'll figure out the plot later. Yep.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
And I am taking Disco Elysium with my first pick. Dang it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
never somewhere to look or what's that over there no what should i pick that up or check that out and it is far superior once they uh added the uh the voice lines and you didn't have to just read all that stuff like it's so much better i couldn't read it i couldn't do it yeah That's why I didn't play it the first time either.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
It's Ryan. You know, I don't know how I feel about this. You know, you guys were asking me before, like, Ryan, you sure you got enough games? Do you need some help? Do you need a hand? Like, I've played some indie games in my time, guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Something different there for sure. And I've seen a lot of footage of it. I've yet to play it. I have recently been falling in love with roguelikes. We started with Josh with Endless Dungeon. And I was like, oh, these are kind of sweet. You know, this is Risk of Rain 2. We got a lot into that and stuff. So Hades is one I haven't been able to hit up yet.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
But everyone, every time I tell them, they're like, what? Dude, you got to play Hades. So yeah, it's on the list for sure. It defies.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
We got enough battle royales. Another roguelike.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. I am actually surprised this one is here for me. I figured – I honestly didn't even put Hades on my list because I figured it was going to go with Josh, especially having two at the back end of those picks there. I'm going to go with a game that I – again, I'm not the biggest indie guy, so I haven't played some of these. But I know that it's a huge one.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
I've watched a lot of footage, and I actually enjoy just sitting and watching people run this game. I'm going to go with Celeste. Dang it! Oh!
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
See, when we say Ace, yeah, how's it feel to get poached, man? Now what are you going to do?
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. You guys did not give me any credit. You were asking if I was going to have enough games to pick for this tournament.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Ace is tilting already, man. I love it. Yeah, lay it on me. What do you got to say about Celeste, brother? Come on.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
I have absolutely no idea. But we clarified this before, and we said, is this our favorites, or is this just best of all time? You guys were like, best of all time. Personal opinion doesn't matter. And I'm like, all right. Say less, homie. That's all I need. Her name's Madeline, by the way.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
Hi, Marty. I'm good now. I'd snake this pic.
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
It is absolutely on my list, too. Yeah. All right, let's see your, like, fourth pick. Like, what do you have?
Video Gamers Podcast
The BEST Indie Games of ALL TIME - Gaming Podcast
We told him. He thought he was going to come in and walk us.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
85% Metacritic. Ryan, what do you think, buddy, for Risk of Rain 2 at a 90? I mean, let's be honest. Any indie developer in the world releases a game and it gets a 93%. They are doing cartwheels. They are celebrating. They're toasting champagne. I mean, this studio is just having a party. But is Risk of Rain 2 overrated or underrated at a 93% Riot?
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Okay, so guys, I'm a little overexcited for this episode, man, because goodness gracious, this is going to be one that people are going to wind up commenting on. Ace, I got to give you credit. This was your idea. You are a glutton for punishment, my friend, because you were like, dude, indie episode, what if we do the most overrated and underrated indie games? And then we were like...
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Video games are an incredible passion and hobby, but one man's trash is another man's treasure. What might be overwhelmingly positive for one person might be a big thumbs down for someone else.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, and the co-op is so good. Like, that's the other nature of it. Like, you can play this game solo, and it's fun, but when you're with your buddies, that nature of, like, you can't share all the gear becomes part of it, where it's like, I'm over here, Ryan's over there, and Ace is over there, we're all looking at stuff, and I just found this sweet, sweet loot. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I know Ryan needs those mushrooms for his bill that he's working on, but those are my mushrooms.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I mean, it's just the way that it goes. So yes, I'm, I'm going to make this unanimous. I think risk of rain to it at 93% is honestly drastically underrated at that point. Yeah. Um, When people say, hey, I don't really know what the roguelike genre is. I haven't really gotten into them. Risk of Rain 2 is one of those games that is like a first recommendation for somebody. It's cheap. It's fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
It's a blast with friends. It will get you hooked into the roguelike loop. The fact that you have all these classes that you can unlock and then even the skills within the classes to unlock with these neat little challenges and stuff, I think is the perfect carrot to dangle in front of somebody. Risk of Rain 2 to me is insanely fun, dude. And a 93%, I think, does not do that game justice at all.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Agreed. I get it's not for everybody. It is an action based kind of shooter type game and it can be pure chaos at times. And so I get it. That does not appeal to everybody. Just like Stardew Valley doesn't appeal to me. But if you are the kind of gamer that likes action and stuff with friends that you haven't played Risk of Rain 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Stop what you're doing and pick this game up because we recommend it to everybody, dude. You're missing out. Yeah. This one's going to be tough, boys. This is going to be real hard, but we're going to talk about this one right after this break. Oh, my goodness. Okay, guys. Why are we doing this to ourselves? There's no good that can come of this episode, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
People are going to disagree with us. They're going to hate us. And they're going to be like, I can't believe you guys did this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Okay. Hades. Quite possibly one of the most well-known roguelike games in existence. When you say roguelike, Hades...
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
is right there i mean if it's not a genre defining game i don't know what is hades burst onto the scene it everybody in the world was talking about hades oh my goodness this game's so good the dialogue the game remembers how you died the the progression the combat's top notch everything about this game is insanely good well the rating reflects that because it's a 98 percent
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
on steam and again we are talking i think hades is up there at like 600 700 000 reviews this is no slouch of a game i have played a lot of hades dude i i love hades i'm gonna be honest with you right now i love hades i think it's so much fun it is the perfection of what the roguelike genre is I'm going to say it. Do it. I'm going to say it. I think it's overrated, guys. What?
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I think Hades is overrated. While there is so much to love about the game, 98% is crazy, dude. It's crazy. I... I mean, what am I going to say? It's a 99% perfect game. Like, that's really hard to do. As much as I love Hades, I do think it is a tad overrated.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
That is a slippery slope, my friend. But we have never shied away from sharing an opinion. And, you know, that's what we're going to do today, man. We are going to take some of the most beloved indie titles out there and we are going to decide whether they are overrated or underrated. There is no... I think it's perfectly rated, guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
So people universally love Hades more than any other game that we are talking about today.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
i my one complaint with hades not to get into the but but the progression system the permanent progression system in hades does not feel super rewarding to me you've never cared about progression what are you talking about i'm just saying i like the weapons i like that you can try out the different weapons and stuff but the the permanent progression in hades is a little bit slow paced for me and i think that's why i i i'm gonna lean to the side of i think it's slightly overrated um it's
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Fantastic game. And honestly, I've kind of had the itch to play it again too. So might wind up doing that, but all right. This one's going to be – this one I think is going to be – That's everyone. I know. Let's just go with it. Lethal Company. I mean, Lethal Company took the world by storm. The three of us have played a heck of a lot of Lethal Company together. You will laugh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
You will have experiences and stories and all that stuff. Lethal Company sitting at a 97% on Steam. There's no Metacritic score for Lethal Company because I guess it's technically still early access or something. Hasn't been fully released. So, I mean, a game that comes out that is as simple in design and gameplay as Lethal Company and hits a 97% is bananas, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
And then we've seen so many knockoffs of this. I mean, you know, headliners and content warning and everything else. But Lethal Company came out, changed the gaming world. They kind of did it first. I know Among Us was like, but it's a different style of game at that point. Ace, I know you're a big fan of Lethal Company.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Is it underrated or overrated at a 97%?
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I'm shocked. I actually kind of thought you were going to say it's overrated.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Yep. And then you got to explain yourself on top of that. So we... Listen, I feel like this episode needs to come with a disclaimer because I know that Greg is going to make some fire reels from some hot take on so much trouble. They're going to get put on social media and then like social media does, they're going to be like, you guys are idiots. How dare you say this game is overrated?
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I feel like I already know what Josh is. You guys know, I think it's overrated. That's not to say I haven't had a ton of fun playing lethal company, but I have a problem with this genre in general because it is dumb fun and you will have an absolute blast dude. Like headliners dude. Lighters cost us, what, $7? We played it for a weekend. I think I had four gaming sessions. I laughed like crazy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
It was super funny. I got my money's worth, and then I just went, this game's going in the trash, like every other game. And I don't mean that to slander the game. What I mean is these are disposable games, in my opinion, where it's like, it is fun. I'm not slandering Lethal Company. I'm not saying that it's not fun, and I get that people love it, and that's fantastic.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
And yes, video games should be fun, But sometimes you need a little bit more than that to get up into that like upper echelon of games for me. And so 97% rating, I think is kind of crazy. Is it dumb fun? Absolutely. Would I recommend people pick it up and play it? Absolutely. Do I think it's a 97% rating on like overall? Like, no, I don't think it's that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
So for me, this is an easy, this game is overrated for sure.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I'm going to say if it was at a 90%, I think I'm still going to say it's overrated.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
My problem is this is not to say that it's not a good game. It's a dumb, simple game that is a lot of fun for a very short period of time. And to me that, that my personal opinion is that brings it down because it's hard to claim that this game that is a disposable game is in this upper echelon of other games like hollow night and Hades and even risk of rain.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
And some of the other games that we're about to talk about, these are fantastic video games all around versus this one game that does something very, very well, but it's so short lived and it's so repetitive after that, that it just falls apart in my opinion.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. All right, guys, I will hear no slander on this next game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Subnautica, one of my favorite games. And the reason that I say this, and I've said this before, Subnautica is the game that taught me. I literally did not know this about myself, that I absolutely love survival crafting exploration games. I had not played any before Subnautica. I remember seeing the hype and I went, this game looks beautiful. I dove in, ha ha.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
And I fell in love and I've been in love with that genre ever since Ace were playing and shrouded. We would not be playing and shrouded if it wasn't for the fact that Subnautica taught me, Josh, you really like this genre of games. Is it a saturated genre? Yes, it is. I can fully appreciate that, too. But Subnautica did it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
best in my opinion maybe i don't know i don't want to i don't want to lump that in there but subnautica is sitting at a 97 rating on steam and 87 percent yeah dude what the heck thank you ace what the heck man Subnautica is the same rating as Lethal Company. What is wrong with you people? I'm just going to say it. Subnautica to me, one of my favorite games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
And then we're going to be like, did you listen to the whole episode? And of course they didn't listen to the whole episode.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
This is weird because it kind of gets into like the Oscar nominations where it's like, are you saying that this is the best game ever? Or are you saying that it did something very well? It's tough for me because I get it's not a perfect game. It does have some issues. But for me, I think 97% is actually underrated, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Subnautica is one of those most, it ranks up there with like the most memorable games that people have played and remembered. I get it's not for everybody, but I do think for what it does, it does absolutely top notch and you will remember Subnautica. I think it's underrated.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Well, Ryan, you played Subnautica, and I have a feeling that you're probably going to say you think it's overrated at 97%.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
We are not saying that these games are bad games. In fact, these might be some of the best indie games in existence.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I agree. It's underrated. Ace, the next time you get dove and rivals, I'm peeling for you, buddy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
all timers that's not the question the question is do you feel like this game is overrated or do you feel like it's actually underrated a little bit because that can happen too and so yes it's going to be hot takey yes it's going to be a little bit controversial controversial but that is the fun of it we've got some honorable mentions that we we're going to mention later on because i have a game that i am absolutely a couple actually that i am absolutely against the flow on
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
How you can make a game that's fully underwater and make it that interesting and good, it's like, how is the ocean interesting? But they make it interesting.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
You Metacritic people, cheer up, man. Cheer up, people. Yeah. All right, well, since we're talking about underwater games, how about this one? Beloved game, Dave the Diver. Came out of nowhere. I remember hearing the hype on Dave the Diver. Everybody was like, it's like a throwback to games of old. It's got this pixel art, which kind of threw me off at first. I'm not going to lie.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Of course it did. Hey, I'll be honest. I think it's beautiful.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I think Dave the Diver is a beautiful game. But this game came out of nowhere, really took the world by storm. Dave the Diver sitting at a 97%, so equal to Subnautica, equal to Hollow Knight. I mean, absolutely beloved game. We have all played Dave the Diver. Ace, what do you think on Dave the Diver sitting at a 97%? Overrated or underrated?
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
wow fans i have a request that you kill ryan uh well this one man all right listen dave the diver to me was the perfect throwback video game it the little mini games the pixel art it just draws you in right away like i don't know anybody that played dave the diver that's been like I don't get it, dude. Even if you have fun for like five hours, you still have a blast at five hours.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
So I absolutely love Dave the Diver. I think it's a fantastic game. It is overrated. Yeah! It is overrated. And that breaks my heart, dude. That breaks my heart. I do not say this with joy like freaking Ryan over there does.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
But listen, again, this is not to slander the game because I love Dave the Diver.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
But 97% is a little high, dude. It does everything great. But it does start to slog just a little bit, dude. That is my biggest problem. I love the first six hours of Day of the Diver, but then it kind of gets a little bit more into the farming sim. You have to work a lot harder for the upgrades, and the story kind of stalls out a little bit. And I kind of went like, ew. It hurts me, Ace.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
It hurts me. I don't want to be on this side of the fence with Ryan, but I have to be honest.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
It's like 96% good, to be honest. I know we can't.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
How dare you slander Dave the Diver like that? All right, listen. Here's another game that does what it does absolutely to perfection. Is it enough to make it...
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
underrated i don't know this one's probably the hardest one for me to be honest with you cuphead quite possibly the most perfect shooter like platform i don't what do you call those games the running guns like it's a running gun boss battle boss rush right So Cuphead, incredible, incredible art style, peak mechanics, insanely difficult, crazy bosses.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I mean, it is perfection for what it tries to do. Like, honestly, we don't have Celeste on this list, but Celeste is perfection for platformer, right? Yeah. I mean, but like, so for me, Cuphead is that like perfect game for what it's trying to do. Cuphead is sitting at a 96% on steam, 86% Metacritic.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
People don't like hard games on Metacritic apparently, because this is the, not the lowest game, uh, but close. Um, Ryan, what do you think on Cuphead? Overrated, underrated, 96%.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I did not expect that from Ryan. I'm rated on Cuphead at 96%, man. Wow. All right. That's crazy. I was not expecting that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Let's just preface this by us saying we understand these games are fantastic. We are not slandering these games whatsoever. In fact, I'm pretty sure with the exception of one game, maybe two games. Actually, now that I look at three games that are on this list that I adore, except for these three games, which I think maybe are not quite so... I'm going to get in trouble, guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I feel like Ace would like Cuphead. You do not shy away from difficult games, Ace.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
This one's so hard for me, man, because like I said, if you take what Cuphead is trying to do, it does it perfectly. It's like Hollow Knight in that regard, right? If I think what is the perfect run-and-gun shooter throwback type game, but modern... Cuphead is absolutely it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
And so I kind of go like, well, if I'm saying that Hollow Knight is underrated for being one of the best Metroidvanias in existence, then Cuphead is probably underrated for being one of the best run and gun shooters in existence. Is it underrated because if you want that genre, it is pretty much perfection? Or is it overrated because it's still a simplistic game overall?
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
And it does start to get a little repetitive because you're doing the same thing just against different bosses and levels. And I told you, this is the one that on this list is the hardest for me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I am going to say I think Cuphead is overrated. That hurt him.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
It did, but I think I lean that way, man. Again, this isn't to say anything bad about Cuphead, but 96%. I played the heck out of it. We did a deep dive on Cuphead. Paul beat. Like, the hardest level and everything. And I was like, Paul, what the heck, man? And I enjoyed the heck out of it, don't get me wrong. But I don't go to bed at night, like, thinking about Cuphead.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Like, I do Subnautica or Hollow Knight, you know, or Hades even or something like that. So that kind of tells me I think it's probably...
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
All right. Disco Elysium, guys, one of the most well-known success stories for the indie genre and a role playing game that doesn't have combat. What the heck were you thinking, people? And there was a whole bunch of text you had to read. And then they came out with the director's cut that put incredible voiceover on this game. I went into Disco Elysium thinking I was going to hate it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Turns out I freaking love it. I am going to just jump in and say that the 93% that Disco Elysium has is criminal. This is one of the most memorable, best RPGs that you can play. You have to just experience it. I really don't know how to explain Disco Elysium otherwise, but just the fact that you can do all of these things in this game and it just keeps chugging along is insane to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
So I think 93% is criminally underrated.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. Well. Here we go. Let's just start it off, guys. I mean, if people are going to hate me, let's make them hate me right off the rip, guys. Right away. Right away. Rip the Band-Aid off. First game up. This is a game that we have all played. Stardew Valley. Together, boys. Say it together.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
You're talking to doors before you know it. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
91% on Metacritic, one of the higher games on Metacritic in this list. Actually, second highest. Only behind Hades. So, Disco Elysium... You're missing out if you haven't played it. Again, don't be like me. I thought, no combat, what the heck, I'm not going to like this at all. And boy, was I pleasantly surprised.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
And I just let you roll with it because I know exactly who you're talking about. Yeah. Alright, not quite as a well-known game, but man, this game did garner a lot of attention when it came out. Dredge is the last one on our official list before we get to a few honorable mentions. Dredge...
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
horror fishing like what fishing what the heck is horror fishing how does this work but i played dredge i had an absolute great time with it sitting at a 95 on steam uh 80 on metacritic so again those metacritic people harsh harsh on dredge the lowest the lowest metacritic score out of any of these games ace You're a big fan of Dredge. I think you're the one that actually got me to play Dredge.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
So is it underrated or overrated at 95%?
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Slandering dredge, Ace. Devs are on the phone. And the developer listens to our show and has to hear you say that on the indie episode? Oh, my goodness, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Go check it out. All right. Well, overrated. Ace hates dredge. We all heard that. So, Ryan, what about you, buddy? Well, I don't know what you're going to say. Do you also hate really good video games?
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
One of the things that we're going to do is we're going to tell you the score so that people can see how beloved these games are. And to be fair to our console gamers, we pulled the Metacritic scores as well as the Steam scores. So on Steam, Stardew Valley is sitting at an insane 98% overwhelmingly positive rating. We don't have the totals on this, but I saw it. It's like 750,000 reviews, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Dredge is a fantastic video game. It is a lot of fun to play. I think it does what it does very well. But, man, it's like, are we just so hungry for just a good video game that we elevate it up to higher levels because it didn't have a lot of flaws to it? I like dredge a lot. Do not hear what we are not saying. I think I think this game would appeal to a wide range of gamers.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
And again, this is one of those ones where if you haven't played it, you probably will like it. I don't know anybody that dislikes dredge. Yeah. And maybe that's elevating it to like a level that is kind of like, I don't know if it belongs way up here in this upper echelon of games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
So at a 95%, I will say I do think it's overrated, but it is a heck of a game that I think has mass appeal to a lot of people, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Is that going to be like, oh, this is so much better?
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Or is it going to be like, well, Dredge actually was pretty good. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Maybe. All right, listen, guys, we've got a few minutes left to really shake things up and just really make everybody hate us. And I'm going to jump in on one game. Okay, Ace, you gifted me a copy of this game. You said, Josh, if I know anything about you, you will love this game. You love roguelikes. You love good combat. You love a good difficulty curve.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
You gifted me a copy of Dead Cells, and I went, dude, I can't tell you the number of people that I have heard just tout Dead Cells as one of the best roguelikes games ever. The combat is top notch. I dove into Dead Cells, and about four hours later, I went, what is wrong with me? Why do I not like this game? What is happening?
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
And I am going to be honest, Dead Cells is at a 97% overwhelmingly positive rating. I do not get it, dude. I get it. I should love this game. It makes no sense. You really should. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. But I found Dead Cells to be insanely repetitive.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I did not like how fast you could die and then just respawn, and I'm running that same stupid sewer level over and over and over again. Sure, I got a different blade, but... It's all the same to me. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, people. This is the only one I'm going to apologize for. I just don't get it. I think Dead Cells is insanely overrated at a 97%. So, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
How dare you with a hot take. Ace, you got one that I'm scared to have you even talk about this in any kind of bad light whatsoever.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I absolutely agree with you on this one because I have played this game too. But, man, you're going to catch some. I'm letting you do it. I'm staying.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Today, we're going to be playing overrated and underrated with some of the most popular indie titles, so you can decide which of us you love and hate. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh, and joining me, we're starting off this episode as best of friends, but depending on his answers, we might be mortal enemies by the end. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Get to the good part where everybody hates you now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
For a game that looks like it was made by a three-year-old. Again, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
No, no, no. This is your bear, Ace. I forgot. Sorry.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I feel like so many people in the world have played Stardew Valley. It's sitting at an 89 on Metacritic. The one thing I've realized is Metacritic people are harsh, dude. Listen, PC gamers, 98%. Stardew Valley is one of the best games ever made. Metacritic people are like, I don't know how to feel about playing this on my console. Oh, my God.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I played Undertale, I'll be honest, I played it for like three, four hours, so in all fairness, I did not get to the heartfelt, like, oh, this game is so deep, and So amazing and all that. So I fully admit I might be missing out. But man, if I can think of a game that I am so just put off on that everybody else loves, this is up there with Stardew Valley for me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Undertale is a huge whiff for my gamer brain. I get why people love it, but man, I don't get... I don't get it at all.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
This is one of the best games of the generation.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
All right. Real quick. Consensus opinion. Last one, and then we got to get out of here.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
deep rock galactic a game that we have touted a game that we have recommended to people rock and stone when we think about the great indie games we got to talk about deep rock galactic 97 rating is it underrated or overrated ryan go underrated rock and stone forever i love it i love all the iterations i love all the side games uh underrated
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Underrated for me as well, but it's close, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
It's just a blast of a game. And again, you can have fun with your friends. It's got a ton of great stuff. All right. That's it. Please don't hate us, everybody. This was all just for fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Bring it on. He's like, I want to just drown myself in the hate. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
hope you had fun listen if we got it wrong if we got it right let us know you can comment on this episode on Spotify leave us a comment and tell us how stupid we are or how you agree with us and then you can face the wrath of the internet along with us yep but man what a good time and again all these games are honestly amazing dude No, we're not talking bad about these games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
It's more just does the rating reflect how good they really are. If you haven't done so, make sure you follow the podcast. If you are still listening and haven't decided you hate us at this point, click that plus button. Click that follow button and make sure you get all of our episodes the day that they release.
Video Gamers Podcast
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And if you are, you know, like these guys are so brave to take on the world and not be afraid to talk about their opinions on these games. And you want to support this podcast, you can click the link that's in the episode description to sign up and support this show. We're going to give you a shout out on the air. We'll give you some awesome discord perks for our incredible community as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
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So check that out. Keep this podcast alive and going. And, you know, not afraid to give these opinions, you know, because we're going to find such unfiltered opinions like this from three old men.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
What's the worst they're going to do? Take our walkers away from us. All right, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. This was a fun one. Until next time. Happy gaming. See ya. Peace out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
with the console people y'all some hard to please man 89% on Metacritic you're gonna see this for every game we talk about every game it's like massive Steam rating Metacritic nah not for me not for me well it's called Metacritic so you know alright listen I have made no qualms about this so I'm just gonna kick it off I think Stardew Valley is insanely overrated dude
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
It is one of the games that I think is the most overrated game in existence. So we're just starting this episode off on fire. I know people are like, dude, Josh, you are the dumbest guy I have ever seen or heard. I hate you right now, and listen, I get it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I get that people love their little farming sims, and I get they love their little pixel graphics, and I get that they love the little blob slaughter fest that happens in the dungeons, and I like that they like their little dating sims where you get to talk to the little people in the town and try to give them presents and all that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Dude, Stardew Valley is one of the most mind-numbing games I think I have ever played. Like, do I like farming? Sure. Do I like growing crops? Sure. Does that make this one of the highest rated games of all time? No.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Listen, this has always been a hot take of mine always. And I will stand up for it. I have put I probably played Stardew Valley for a solid like eight hours. This is not a game that I put like 40 minutes into and went, no, this isn't for me. I don't... Somebody help me understand, dude. What is the love for this game?
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
So at least it has something. It's the sandbox element. I get it. Listen, so Stardew Valley, and this is a thing. Cozy games are not for me. My wife absolutely loves cozy games, dude. In fact, it's one of the few genres that she'll actually play. She's playing the Kirby's Dream Island or whatever the Kirby cozy game knockoff of Animal Crossing is. And she loves it, dude. She loves it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
This is her piece. And I love that for her. And this is not to slander cozy games as a genre because I get it. A lot of times after a hard day's work and you want to just de-stress, this is the perfect way to do it. But the goal of this episode, is it overrated or is it underrated? And it sounds to us like we all agree that Stardew Valley is overrated now. Overrated.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
With that said, it's not a bad video game, and I get it. There's a lot of aspects of the game that people like, and when you put them all together, people really, really love it. So not slandering Stardew Valley, just saying it's an overrated video game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Well, we got that one out of the way, boys. If anybody is still listening to this episode... For all the listeners still here... Alright, let's move on to... Guys, here's the problem. Every one of these games is beloved. Every single one of these is beloved. So if we say overrated on any of these... People are going to be like, what do you mean it's over? How dare you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
As long as you do not slander my game and call it overrated, we'll be all right. Right. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Okay. Well, let's go on to another one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Hollow Knight. Hollow Knight. Quite possibly one, in my opinion, quite possibly one of the best Metroidvanias in existence. I remember going into Hollow Knight thinking I was not going to like this game. I don't care for Metroidvanias that much. What's up with the weird little bug mask that this little guy wears and all this stuff?
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
And then Hollow Knight just started to suck me in with its super good environment that controls are tight as anything, dude. It's responsive. The boss fights were like, what? These stupid praying mantis three things are kicking my booty over and over. Like, how dare you? And then I just realized, dude, Hollow Knight is legit, dude. It is one of the most beloved Metroidvanias.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
All right. And joining us, he's the indie man himself, but there's no playing it safe in this episode. Will he invoke the wrath of the internet and speak truth or will he try to play it safe? It's ace.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Silksong, we're getting it this year.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I'll believe it when I actually see it and it has an actual release date, guys, instead of just 2025. Fair. All right. Hollow Knight sitting at a 97% rating on Steam. Again, these are hundreds of thousands of reviews. This is not just a couple. Oddly enough, a 90 on Metacritic. So at least people appreciate a better video game than Stardew Valley. Oh, man. I'm going to get myself in trouble here.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Now, here's the kicker. You're not allowed to say 97% is perfect. So is Hollow Knight overrated at a 97% or is it underrated at a 97%? Ace? Oh gosh, here it comes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Get this man off the show. Get this man off this podcast right now. How dare you, Ace?
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Forever? Hollow Knight. It's the Metroidvania that I think I enjoy the most, unless we're going to go way, way back to like the old Nintendo days, you know, where it was just straight up Metroid. But again, probably some nostalgia involved there. To me, Hollow Knight is the best Metroidvania that I have played. I am actually going to say I think it's underrated.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Ace is like this whole Minecraft thing, dude. I'm a new man. Yeah, forget what people think of me, man. Just don't call me big skin.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
If freaking Stardew Valley is sitting at a 98% and that game is boring and not fun, then Hollow Knight, which perfected the Metroidvania genre, in my opinion, incredible environments, incredible music. Again, the gameplay is top notch. Is it a perfect game? No, it is not. But that's where that 2% or 3% comes off.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
at the top, but I am going to actually say that I think Hollow Knight is actually underrated because to me, it's the best Metroidvania out there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I mean, it's true. And see, that's the weird caveat, right? Because it's like, do you like Metroidvanias? If you love them, like you, Ace, you have experienced dozens and dozens and dozens of Metroidvanias. So you have that ability to say, well, I love what Hollow Knight does. I think there's actually some better Metroidvanias out there. For me, I don't play a ton of Metroidvania.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
So when I think of the genre and the peak of that genre, Hollow Knight is easily the game that comes to mind. And then I go, well, if that's like the absolute peak Metroidvania to me. You know, is it 100%? It's not quite 100%, let's be honest. But I do... And again, I can't say that I think it's a fair rating because that's lame and that's against the rules.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
So I'm going to say I think it's underrated, man. Love it. Yeah. So, okay. Now, I know this is a game that all three of us love, but this is where the rating system comes in is do we think it's a fair rating? Do we think it's underrated or do we think it's overrated? And that is a game... That we all adore. Risk of Rain 2. Risk of Rain 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
Overrated or Underrated? - Gaming Podcast
I mean, I made a little video on it saying, hey, this is one of the best roguelikes that you can play with friends. We have played Risk of Rain 2 together many, many a time for a long time. It is an absolute blast to play. It made our list of some of the funnest video games that you can play. I think it's just a joy. I mean, it is an absolute joy of a game. The Steam rating on Risk of Rain 2, 93%.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Not me. I think I whiffed one, didn't I? I think I'm 500 on my roof jumps. So if you have not heard of Headliners, you are missing out. This is the next just dumb fun game that has come out. We need a genre for these games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. Hey, dude, Lies of P. I said it in the intro. Quite possibly the best indie Souls-like game in existence. And we got the announcement of the DLC for it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
What is the premise of Headliners? So for people that aren't familiar, can you explain just kind of the general top-down view of what this game is?
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. On this week's indie episode, we're discussing, quite possibly, the best indie Souls-like in existence, Lies of Pi, and discussing the announcement of its first DLC ever. We'll be laughing over the horrible and gruesome deaths we've seen in headliners, talk the exceptional-looking Tito, and marvel over the art style of A Midnight Walk.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
uh so we'll get to that in just a second first of all welcome in everybody thank you for joining us it is awesome to have you here we love doing these indie episodes we've actually gotten some traction on these already dude like there's indie devs that have been reaching out to us on social media and they're like dude thank you guys for like dedicating this episode to it
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Again. Oh, man. I can't tell you how many times I got knocked, like five times in a row by you guys just throwing limbs at me, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
and that's kind of the dumb fun of this is like your guy can take some damage. You'll lose an arm, you'll lose a leg, you'll lose both, but you're still alive. But now you're limping around everywhere and stuff like that. It is just hilarity. Like if you just want a game to play with friends and crack up about headliners is absolutely that, um, it doesn't have long lasting like potential.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
No, it's seven 99 on steam. Like
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
this is a game that you buy you and a couple buddies you buy you play it for a weekend or a week or whatever and then you know yes you've kind of experienced the content but if you ever just want to crack up and be silly and laugh at your friends dying horribly like that's what this game is it's just so much fun man it's also kind of taken the world by storm i think the last i saw they said they sold like a quarter of a million copies wow on this that makes me so happy to hear because
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
It just goes to show you people just want to have a good time. Yeah, man. Not every game needs to be a 30-hour game. I'll play this one or two more times. Honestly, you guys will say, hey, who wants to hop in? Somebody on our Discord server will say, anybody playing Headliners? And I'll be like, I'm down. This is not a long-term game, at least not for somebody like me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
But I have easily gotten my $8 out of this game already.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Ace, you shared a link with us for a game called A Midnight Walk.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
I want you to kind of lead into this one because I had seen this video before somewhere. I don't know if we covered it on maybe just the main show's twig or something like that, or maybe it was an announcement video. I just know I've seen this art style. But now we've got a little bit more of a look. And man, this game has me very interested.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
But why don't you tell us about A Midnight Walk and what it is?
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
It's so hard to get exposure as an indie dev. It's hard to kind of get people to notice your games and things like that. And our stance has always been we absolutely love indie developers. We love the passion that they have. We love the fact that they're so involved in the gaming community. They often solicit feedback and say, hey, how can we make this game better?
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
I'm already in. It's like developing a video game is not hard enough as it is to where they go, let's make it out of clay. You know what I mean? And then it's like, wait, what? We're going to do the whole thing in clay, guys. That's like, are you crazy? we have to make an entire video game out of clay then. And they go, yeah, let's do it. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
I will say, I love the fact that this is going to be available in VR. Now, from my understanding, I think the game itself will be available as like a standalone game, but it has the option for VR and that does include PC. So you could play it in steam through like your quest to like connection with steam, which I absolutely love. Cause I don't know, like a PlayStation VR. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
And so it's one of those things where it's like to be able to experience this art style and this creepiness at the same time in VR, like to scale, like, I mean, what an experience that would be. I love, I love these games that we're getting where the art style is just absolutely carrying these games. South of Midnight is another game coming up soon where it's just that has my attention.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, A Midnight Walk is right up there for me, honestly. And I will absolutely play this in VR, too, because I think that's how they kind of intended this game to be played. All right, Josh, VR party at my house, buddy. I'll do it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
We'll be banging into each other, man. Oh, but yeah. So I, I absolutely, this trailer alone blew me away. So if nothing else, again, go watch the trailer for that. It's called a midnight walk. I like how they're doing stuff with fire. There's these really fantastic visuals and characters and stuff. I am such a sucker for that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Like dark fantasy, uh, aspect, man, it just does something for my brain. And I love it. Like I, it's like, I just want to go sit in that world as creepy as it is. Like, there's just a part of me that's like, I want to be there, man. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I, man, I don't, I, like I said, I'm very excited for that one. That one is slated to come out in may as well. So not too, too far away either. And like I said, if you have a quest to, which I think is the majority of people, you will be able to play this in VR because again, the game is available through steam and it's super easy to link your quest up with steam at that point too.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
And so this is really just one of the ways that we like to say thank you for that passion to indie devs. And hopefully put some awesome looking indie games on people's radars as well. And we've got a few today, boys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
So I love the fact that they're putting that out there, not just as a PSVR to exclusive. Yeah. And then we've got one more, boys. Oh, buddy. You know, I love sushi. I know Ace loves sushi.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
I know you love sushi.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Who's the best sushi chef in the world? My name's Dave. His name's Dave.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Bro, what are you talking about, man? Well, I guess he's not... He's not the chef. He may not be the chef.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Okay. What's the guy's name? Ichiban? Ichiban.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Is it Ichiban? Yeah. Okay. Ichiban's the best sushi chef in the world. Yes, he is. But the guy that provides the freshest sushi...
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
So we got an announcement that there is going to be a Dave the Diver crossover with the Yakuza series.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
I love it. I love it. Okay. Have any of you played the Yakuza games at all? I feel like none of us have.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I, they look incredible. I know they get a ton of praise from people that have played them. I just can't get into, I don't know, man, there's something just weird about it. I've just, my brain's not interested, but again, I know that this is a very popular series. It's a big deal. So we, we got this announcement and I think this is tying into the, what is it? Like a pirate? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
So I'm thinking, how are they going to tie this into Dave the diver?
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Let's just start off with Lies of P. Because Ace is grinning already, man. We're going big.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Dude, the fact that we got a look at the 2D side scroller was what absolutely sold it for me. So Streets of Rage, Double Dragon. Again, you know, this is throwing back to my childhood. Dave the Diver is kind of a throwback to these old school games anyway. But it's like it's so good for being modern at the same time. Like this is why Dave the Diver got such high praise, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
I mean, it really is an incredible game. Dude, the fact that we got to see the Like a Dragon people walk into the sushi restaurant, and I'm going, where are they going to go with this, man? How are they going to incorporate these two? They show them walking into the sushi restaurant. You see the main dude. Forgive me, I don't know the guy's name because I've never played the games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
But he's swimming underwater with Dave, and they come across, obviously, some mercenary thugs underwater or something. It's like, you can tell this is going to get down. Then we got the 2D side-scroller fighter game. They figured it out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Now...
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
ace you played lies of p before i ever even got a chance to dive into it i remember we have we covered it many many times on this podcast leading up to its release we kind of had this up and down bit of a roller coaster with it where we kind of went this looks like it could be like the best game ever and then we kind of went and not real sure um and then the game came out you played it first you loved it uh i played it after that i loved it ryan
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
you know so it's like okay i'm in it's a perfect this is one of those dlcs that will absolutely get me to go back to dave the diver like as goofy as that is because my brain doesn't work that way but this one this one got me man oh more dave is always good like this is actually his third dlc uh his first two were dredge and godzilla Yeah, that's weird. Oh, that's right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
And as much as I love Dredge, that was not enough to get me to go back. But this one seems like they're throwing enough stuff in there. Dude, well, it's got that variety.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
The nostalgia hit is real, and it's like, kudos to you for playing on that, because you got me. Yeah. So... Awesome. Well, listen, that does it for this episode. I mean, go check out the Tito demo. We cannot encourage you enough to do this. You know, one of our favorite things is to put good games in front of you guys. Check out the Tito demo. Let us know what you think.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
I mean, maybe we're off base, but I don't think that we are. But we would absolutely love to hear from people on what they think about that as well. You know, come join our Discord server. We have an awesome community of almost a thousand gamers. There's no politics. There's no toxicity.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
It's just gamers getting along and talking their love of games without people putting you down for your opinions and stuff like that. If you need friends to play with. I mean, we literally just had somebody join and say, hey, anybody playing headliners? I'd love to play with people. And we're like, yeah, we got like seven, eight people that are playing that almost nightly right now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
So if you need friends to just play games with, we invite you as well. The only thing we ask is that you be awesome, just like everybody else. And it really is just the best gaming community on the planet. That is it for this episode. Until next time. Happy gaming. Peace out. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
still put off by the whole souls like thing, not to call you out, but no, no, I love souls games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Oh, are you sure you want to make that thing any bigger?
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Oh man. Oh, so, so yeah, Liza P we got the announcement for the DLC overture. Um, What do you guys think about this, man?
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, it is funny how, because it's not FromSoft, that it kind of has sat in that kind of indie obscurity. Now, we say obscurity. Lies of P, I feel like, has done pretty darn well for itself. It has done incredible. That is a testament to how good this game is. If you have not played Lies of P, it is one of the premier top-notch Souls-like games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
You are really missing out if you are a fan of that genre and you have not played it. I was kind of resistant to play it at first because I was kind of like I was fresh off of Elden Ring and I was like, man, I'm kind of wanting something more. And I was like, let me try this out. I was enthralled. I beat the entire game. So that's saying something coming from me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
The combat is a very, very nice blend of being approachable for the most part and then also having those epic boss fights where you are going to die several times. But The game never felt unfair to me. The level design was top notch. The progression systems I thought were awesome. You can kind of build out these builds like you want. There's really nothing to not like about Lies of P.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
And then we get this, this just kind of trailer and it expands like everything, man. Like you said, we get new weapons, we get new boss fights. It looks like we get some new mechanics. They showed some like really cool, like boss moves and things like that. Like you mentioned, there's some range combat because he's got a bow.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
But before we get into all that, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, he's currently trying to sneak past a giant oak tree and being told, no, it's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. Lies of P just really, really solid all around. I mean, I can't recommend that game enough to people that haven't played it. You know, again, the story is really good. It's just neat, man. They really kind of draw you into that world. This, I don't know, what is it like French Renaissance type thing? I mean, it very much reminded me of Steel Rising as far as that goes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Like it's almost the same setting there, but Lies of P is just so far beyond like what Steel Rising was.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
actually oddly really enjoyed steel rising myself so um so yeah i will absolutely be playing that i don't know if i'm going to do like you did ace and just replay all of lies of p just to be ready for it but i will absolutely be picking up this dlc on this one well spent look at you you got you're all primed up and ready but speaking of uh of playing games i think we all got in on a little demo uh recently oh
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
What's funny is I think it was JigglePuff maybe. I can't remember who mentioned this in our community, but somebody put Tito on our radar and said this game looks really cool. It's definitely got influences from Banjo-Kazooie and Crash Bandicoot and some of these just really awesome older genres that, you know, we all used to just love and adore.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
And so instantly it was kind of like, well, this has my attention. And then we did play the demo and the demo was good. It was already good. It kind of showed off, hey, you know, my only complaint with the demo is that for whatever reason, wireless controller functionality just doesn't work.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
So I had to play with mouse and keyboard, which is not the best for a platformer. I was kind of hopeful that in this demo that they had fixed that, but they hadn't. But I will say this, the controls in this second demo felt really good. And I have never played a platformer with mouse and keyboard that felt as good as Tito did. But dude, oh my goodness, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Like, I feel like I'm playing Banjo-Kazooie again.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
That's so funny. I went base Tito. I thought he was cute just the way he was.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Listen, we cannot stress enough. We see a lot of indie games. Legitimately, we see a lot of indie games. We have people reach out to us on stuff. Tito is going to be something special. I don't say this lightly. I feel like I've played, if you've played five different 3D platformers, you've played them all kind of thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, we'll be talking about the Tito demo, and make sure you pay attention to that because there's something special coming there. and joining us he's the indie master extraordinaire the guy who just went back and played lies of p for eight hours so he'd be ready to talk about the dlc announcement today it's ace hey listen man i'm not a puppet i'm a real boy so i have to get that experience
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
But I don't know that I have felt this kind of childlike excitement for a 3D platformer in a while. It is night and day from the first demo. I love the advancements that they made with this. The movement feels good. The stage design is really good. One of my favorite things is in-game variety.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
And Ace, you and I were talking about this before we started recording, but there's one point in this forest level that you're on where if you kind of explore, you get rewarded for it. You find this little corner of the map, and then all of a sudden it goes, dodge the acorns and survive. Oh! Oh, dude, that was so crazy. You guys all found it? And all of a sudden, I'm running for my life.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
There are just dozens of acorns falling from the sky. You're running around like a madman trying not to get squashed. I got hit by one, and it kind of stunned me for a second, and I started panicking, and I was like, no! And I'm running all over the place. At the end of the demo, it's very much a Crash Bandicoot scene where you are running into the direction of your screen. It's super fast-paced.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
There was chaos everywhere. The devs for this game are awesome. It is a small family from New Zealand, and it is literally their family project. That's it. You can tell by the voiceover in the game that it's just their family. But also how awesome is that New Zealand accent? Oh, dude, it's so good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
I love that we got a glimpse of the variety of gameplay that we're going to get. Yeah. You know, like, honestly, between the level designs, the different kind of mechanics in the game that they showcase, the different levels. Like I said, we talked about the Crash Bandicoot ending for the demo. That was very adrenaline pumping. You know, like you said, over the top.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
I mean, my hands were getting sweaty. And I was like, this is great, man. I freaking love this. Yep. So... Do not sleep on Tito. There is a free demo. It is their brand new demo. We've actually been talking to these devs. They are awesome people. And so we always say, hey, support good indie developers. Go try this demo out. See for yourselves. It's fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
It takes about maybe 30 minutes to get through the whole demo. It's tight. It's polished. And I had a blast. I literally yelled to my wife in the other room and I said... I feel like I'm playing Banjo-Kazooie, baby!
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
I mean, that's what it felt like. So they've captured some kind of magic on this, and we really want to see them succeed, but also this is just a darn fun game at the same time. So no release date known yet on that, but... there might be whispers that they might be willing to join us on the podcast and chat the development of Tito. So we'll see how that goes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Maybe we can get some more insight into this awesome game. So awesome. Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back with some headliners. All right, we're back. Guys, all of us. Josh, he's coming for me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Totally About Teeto, Lies of P: Overture and Hilarious Headliners - Gaming Podcast
Don't try the roof jump. Don't do it. Hey, I'm one for one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
No, you watched your wife play slots for a little bit. I don't like slot. So this is my complaint with this game is like, if I'm going to gamble, I want to play blackjack or craps with for sure.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Like those are the two games where you're going to have the most fun slot machines to me. It's so I hate RNG is the problem. Like, I mean, people have heard me talk about like, I hate hearthstone because it's like, I know how to play, but then you get a bad draw or you refresh seven times and don't get a single, you know, card for the build that you're trying to do or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And it just infuriates me. And having a game that is based on RNG gambling like here's the thing with Bellatro at least you have some like poker knowledge and you can say okay well I have a higher chance of getting this and this hand beats that hand and there's some skill involved. with a slot machine, it's all just random. And, and like, have you guys ever accused a game of cheating?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Do you remember like way back in the Nintendo days when games were really hard and you're like, dude, this game's cheating.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I mean, so it's like Clover Pit. I'm just going to yell at it. I'm like, this game's so stupid. It's cheating.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
You get items, though, that can change the odds in your favor. So it's not like totally random. You'll get things.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Oh, it's still random.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
If people can't tell, we've been playing a good bit of Rivals still.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
You can rig the game in your favor, probably.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Slot machines by nature are random, man. For sure.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. We've got a slew of indie games to talk about today, and man, I just gotta say, indie devs are really upping their game lately. From insane-looking combat to graphics that would make a AAA studio jealous, indie gaming is truly something special.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I will say, I think Clover. I will say I think Clover Pit is going to be one of those games that quite possibly can take the world by storm, like legitimately with its with its like inscription kind of art style and that dark like weirdness to it. You know, it's going to be addictive like Bellatro because it's basically copying Bellatro at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Way too much Rivals.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I mean, it seems to me like there's a lot to like about Clover Pit. It just looks so weird to me, man. This one, again, is not my kind of game because I'll just get frustrated at it. I agree.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I don't know that it's too much, Ace. I think it's just the right amount.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I think it'll find its audience. I don't think it's necessarily us, but maybe Ryan. It might be.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I mean, it starts getting the Bellatro hype or the inscription hype. I mean, those were two games that everybody was talking about for a little while. And so it comes out. People are like, well, this game's great. It's probably 10 bucks. There is a demo for it that you can try. So if you're curious, I mean, I am kind of curious.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
So there is a demo that is out right now, and this game just says set to release in 2025.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Falling in VR, like, trips me out, dude. I don't like heights, so it's like it gets me in some way, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
You don't want to fall into hell in VR?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
No, I don't think so. No, I'll pass. I'll pass. All right, real quick before we go to break, guys, let's cover one more. Like, Tears of Metal. Ooh. I saw this game, and this is one where I kind of went up and down, right? Because I'm not a fan of Dynasty Warriors. I don't understand the mindset of just wading through thousands of soldiers in a single swing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Now, I will say Kingmakers looks like a blast to me, but Kingmakers kind of has that twist where it's modern tech versus old school knights. There's base defense and stuff like that. I'm not a fan of Dynasty Warriors. And when I saw Tears of Metal, it is very much inspired by Dynasty Warriors, where you were just wading through hordes of guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Yeah, when we're losing terribly, it feels real bad.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And I kind of went, but we already have Dynasty Warriors. Why are you just copying that and putting a different art style on it? But then they kind of showed off a little bit more where it's like you get upgrades. It looked like there were classes or something like that. You come up against like big armored hulking enemies that take a lot of your attention.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Guys with shields that you have to kind of figure out how to deal with while you're also killing the little hordes of minions and stuff like that. And that's when I kind of went, might be enough variety here to actually keep me interested. And by the end of the trailer, I was kind of like... I mean, this kid don't look that bad after all.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
That was a Scottish Thor.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
She hasn't got the power. Come do it. Star Trek reference.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. Dude, I have a very love-hate relationship with Rivals.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Also, if you would like to invite us to visit you in Scotland, we would absolutely love to accept.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
It's got this cell-shaded art style, and you can build up armies behind you and stuff. And the blood's like... Yeah, it's got these cool finishing moves you can do on all your enemies. Plus, it's co-op. You can play it with friends.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Ace, quit selling me on this, man. I told you in the beginning I thought it was okay, and by the end of the trailer, I was like, oh... Like, all right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
If we play together, we got armies together.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
When we play together, I basically, I'm just going to say I'm William Wallace the whole time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
People that are like, number one, wrong history. You know, like, we don't like that. This accent's terrible. Please stop. What does this have to do with video games? Yeah, right? Everything. Everything. Yeah, there you go. Oh, man, we've gotten off the rails. All right, well, it's probably time to take a break, boys, so we can practice our Scottish accents.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
but all right let's take a quick break and then we're gonna come back we're gonna talk about dusk fade that might be the best looking game on this this list that we got but we'll come back right after this goodness gracious that was bad i i feel like i i want to apologize but at this point there's just no excuse you know that was the rocket stone voice i i don't it was dwarven it was i don't even know what it was sorry uh
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Let's talk about Duskfade. Duskfade looks incredible. Ace, you said this might be the game that you're actually most excited about.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Oh, absolutely. Dude, this is a 3D action platformer that just gives me so much nostalgia.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And it definitely reminds me of Kingdom Hearts with the style, because instead of a key, you're using a clock hand to fight off enemies and stuff. We don't know a ton about it. Yeah, it's very original. Don't you slander us. I'll get you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
We can slander anything around here.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
But just looking at it, it just looks like a joy to play. It looks really tight and fun, and I'm very excited for it. I don't know if you guys are super into 3D platformers anymore, except for...
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I like 3D platformers, man. The last one that I played legitimately was Battle for Bikini Bottom as a hijacker host, which I absolutely loved. I wound up going, this game's great. We've talked about a game called Tito that's an upcoming indie title. We've talked to the developers on that. That game, we played the demo for it. I think that's a fantastic game. I'm really excited for that one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I mean, Duskfade looks like it hits. It's like every checkbox that you want from a 3D platformer, especially from an indie developer, and just check it. Beautiful visuals. Check. Great animation and movement. Check. Different abilities and set pieces where you're grinding on rails and jumping from one to the other or through a cave or something like that. Check. Check.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Here's my concern with this is this game looks so good to me, dude. It is polished. It's beautiful. It's a top notch looking game. And my biggest worry is that this is one of those games that can just disappear into oblivion because they cannot get the name out. And people look at it and they just go, this looks like every other 3D platformer out there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And like, that's a terrible like, I don't want that to happen. But it's like, this is very much a game that could just never hit relevancy at all. And that kind of like that worries me a little bit for them.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I mean, I recently talked about a 3D indie platformer on one of our Instagram shorts, which you should all go follow our Instagram if you're not. You'll get some bonus content from us. But I talked about a 3D action platformer called A Hat in Time, which was super popular when it came out for like the first few months.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And then now it's kind of disappeared in obscurity because it's just like every other 3D platformer, really. And I'm definitely concerned about that with this one, especially with how little is known about it and how little people know about it. Ryan, you loved Astro Bot, so I imagine you're excited for this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
We're smashing people. Ace is keeping us alive. We're just laying the wall down.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
That's that's the key is like you're not committing to purchasing the game when you wish list it. You're just saying, hey, I'm helping like awareness of this game because that is how Steam, you know, shows games to people. So it's like you're not you're not having to commit, you know, nobody's saying, hey, you have to buy this game now and play it and leave a review or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
It's just saying, hey, this game looks good. Let's reward these devs. Let me just click wish list on this. Like here. Touching on my point before, do you guys remember it was very much a ripoff slash clone of Breath of the Wild called Immortals Fenyx Rising?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I played that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Did you play it? I did. I've heard good things.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
It completely disappeared from everything.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Exactly. Now, they made their money. I was actually just Googling, and they said the Steam revenue calculator estimates that they grossed about $4 million. So I don't know how much that game cost to make. But that's another game that it's like, that's my worry, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
As a healer myself, I couldn't help but feel bad for those people. Oh, it was. You guys were just on them constantly.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Is this game that looks great by all accounts, is it going to just fade into obscurity or never even have relevance in the indie market because people just won't hear about it? And that seems criminal to me, but unfortunately that's also... You know, a thing that indie devs face. And it's also why we do this indie episode every week, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I mean, you know, these indie devs are pouring their heart and souls into these games. It does not mean that every indie game is good. Like, let's be honest, there's a lot of really bad indie games out there. Diamond's in the rough, all right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
you know there's some games where we play it we go like there's something here like yeah this this game might catch on like there's something to this like we really hope for the and then like we won't name names but yeah we played a game and we both just walked away and kind of looked at each other shook our head and go dude this game will never it will never make money yeah that's a massive shame but that's the reality of it i mean
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
It was gnarly, so. All right, well, people are like, dude, I thought this was an indie episode. Is this the Rivals? We'll get there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
It absolutely is. And again, that's why we do, we've started doing this indie episode every week is to try to bring awareness to some games that look like, you know, these are going to be quality games. And then again, just so that our listeners can, can, you know, know about them. Okay. So this one, this one looks weird to me and I'll be honest.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I don't, it seems like this game would be right up my alley, but it's, it's a little, I don't know what to think. And it's called morbid metal.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I thought for sure you were going to be like, yeah, man. I picked this one specifically for you. I saw it and I was like, oh, Josh will love this game. I thought the same thing like immediately.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
But I need something more than just like over the top combat action, dude. Like I've played Darksiders. I haven't actually played Bayonetta, which I hear is one of the best in the genre. But it's like. I don't want to just mash buttons and have it look all fantastic. Like I want to actually have to use skill and timing and things like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Part two. We're getting there, people. Don't worry. We just got to brag a little bit, you know? Yeah. We actually have an incredible amount of indie titles to talk about. The Triple I Initiative happened, which gives us a look at a lot of different indie titles. Ace, you actually put this list together for us. I know one game on this list.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And so button mashy type combat games, they're fun for a little bit, but then my brain just kind of goes like, I just don't want to mash buttons nonstop. I'm not saying that this game is that because honestly, it actually looks pretty darn cool to a certain degree. But this is very much a hack and slash. I'm going to say Souls-like combat, even though I hate describing everything like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
But, I mean, it's a third-person, fast-paced combat. They're describing it as a hack and slash action roguelike. The catch on this one is that you get to switch characters.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Mid-fight.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Like, mid-combo. So, you see them going from, like, this white-cloaked, almost, like, samurai-looking dude to this, like, ninja character, almost. Like, mid-combo. And, I mean, this game looks really good to me. It could wind up being really good. Like, I'm watching some trailers now, and my brain's kind of like, I mean, you do kind of like this game, Josh. It does kind of fit what your style is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
It gives me Wukong vibes. A little bit, yeah. I see Black Myth Wukong, but with a more cyberpunk ninja aesthetic. Like, I'm looking at this, I'm like, ooh, it's like Devil May Cry, you know, Black Myth Wukong, but now you can shapeshift between different forms instead of changing weapons. Like, I was like, that's super cool. Did either of you play Returnal? I did not, but I've heard great things.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Okay, so that's the roguelike.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I got a little bit of Returnal vibes. Now, maybe that's from the one boss fight where the boss is just shooting out like a thousand little energy balls.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just spinning around them in a circle, and then the character jumps over all those, lands on the head of the boss, and starts going into some gnarly combo. Like, the action in this game looks over the top. It is a beautiful-looking game. It looks clean. It looks crisp. My only concern with this one is, again, there's a lot of games like this, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
It's becoming an oversaturated genre. It is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
It is, unfortunately. And even for somebody like me that loves this genre, like... And this maybe isn't a fair comparison, right? But I have to make this comparison where when there's so many games in this genre, right? And I go, I'm bored. I want a game that I can play for a week until X game releases that I'm really looking forward to. And I start looking at things.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
It's like, well, I never played First Berserker Kazan, which I've heard very good things about. And I know I would like because it's very much a Dark Souls-like game. Yeah. Or am I going to play morbid metal where it's like, it looks good, but I don't really know a whole lot about it. And then it's like, that's the choice that gamers are making. And where I worry is like first berserker Kazan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I know like, I know gamers that I trust that have said, Hey, this game is great. I've watched gameplay and I go, man, this is right up my alley. Morbid metal looks like it's really cool, but what does it offer me over the other game? And that's the problem, right? When you start getting into these super saturated genres, to me, that's the question. And it's like, you need to have something unique.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
You need to have something, some kind of hook in your game other than just really flashy animations.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Flashy animations and great character designs only going to carry us so far.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Uh, so that tells you how much more in touch ACE is with the, uh, the indie, uh, scene there. But this, I, I saw this one and I was like, Ooh, I've heard of that game. Um, but I'll tell you what, man, let's just, let's just jump in, man. Cause we've got a lot to cover on this. I want to start off.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And I think that's where we always say, what is the hook of your game? If there are a thousand games in this genre, what sets your game apart from every other game out there? And that is the thing where it's like, we have played plenty of games that are... A 7 out of 10 in the genre. There's nothing special about them. There's nothing bad about them. Too much water. Don't get me started.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
But that's the thing, right? There's nothing special. There's nothing terrible. So what makes this game stand out in the genre? Whereas we're going to talk about a game here in just a second, honestly, because we're starting to run out of time, called Dreadmoor.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
that i think looks fantastic and it's like because this is something different right and yes it is absolutely and it doesn't even hide it it actually says inspired by dredge but it's like but this game captures my attention you know like this is standing out to me whereas morbid metal i think looks fantastic like legitimately you both said josh this game is like your kind of game and i agree
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
but there's a thousand of these games, man. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
You know?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
So like, am I going to remember morbid metal in six months when it releases? Like,
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
You don't have to wait long to get some early impressions, at least like it's it's launching an early access this summer. So we'll we will see if there is anything actually more special about it than just flashy graphics and fun transformations.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And I want to be clear, this is not a slander against morbid metal at all. And I'm sorry to use it as the comparison for this, because, again, morbid metal looks fantastic to me. I mean, you should absolutely check this out. Um, but it's just more of that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Like my brain kind of instantly goes to the, well, what game, if I'm going to play this genre, what game am I going to play in that genre that I haven't played yet? That has my attention. So. All right, and since we're doing it, guys, let's talk about Dreadmoor. Dude, this game looks... I mean, we talk about a game that stands out in a genre. Is the horror fishing genre crowded, Ryan?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Because there's only one other game I know about.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Dread is the only one that I can remember. I don't think there's any monsters in Day of the Diver, right? There's no...
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Oh, I was talking about dredge because, you know, it's a crowded genre, the horror fishing genre.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
With the one game that I knew about, and this is – I mean, all I got to do is say one thing, and I know you guys can answer.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Until I saw that inspired by Dredge, I was like, oh boy, here comes the lawsuit. Yeah, right. Oh, right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
No, no, but we're first person versus the third person.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And the exact same inventory system.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I will say this, dude. This game is instantly on my wish list. I think this game looks fantastic. Dredge was phenomenal. The art style in Dreadmoor, I think, stands out really, really well. I wish the Atheists looked like this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Yeah, dude. Honestly, that's a very good point. If Sea of Thieves looked like this, I think it would be a fantastic looking game at that point. Not that Sea of Thieves is bad looking, but dude, I mean, Dreadmoor, you're fishing. It is dredge. Anybody that's played it. But there's also upgrade systems.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
It looks like there's combat because you actually do wind up walking around and then it shows you like shooting something like some kind of weird monster looking thing. I think the first person perspective in this lends itself really well to like being in the wheelhouse of the boat and looking out and seeing some giant monster approaching you. The fishing looks like it's a lot of fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
The inventory system, the upgrades that you're going to get. I mean, that was kind of the fun of Dredge was just that progression system that they had. That kind of cute but creepy atmosphere. Dreadmoor looks like it captures all of that to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Oh, absolutely. And like you said, the perspective. Just being able to walk out on the deck of your ship and there's just a giant eldritch fish monster. And you're just like, I'm going to catch that fish.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
See? Gamers know, man. Everybody knows. Deep Rock Galactic Rogue Core. What's funny about this is we've actually had people in our community saying, hey, have you guys seen this? Are you going to talk about it? Like, are you excited about it? Because we have covered Deep Rock Galactic as a deep dive. Fantastic game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
As someone who absolutely adored Dredge, I am absolutely on board with this because, holy crap, more Dredge.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Yeah, like legitimately, I mean, Dredge is just a, it's such a fun game to play, to experience. It's not, it's nothing, it's not, you know, it's not a crazy, like, I'm going to remember this game forever kind of game, but it's like the epitome of like, I'm so glad I just picked this game up and played it and got that experience at the same time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And I have a feeling Dreadmoor is going to be exactly like that, where it's just this was a really good time for a good price. It was a clean, polished game, and I'm really glad that I had the chance to play it. Do we know when this one's coming out? It's no release date to be announced. That's like every one of these, man. Like every one of them. Yeah, that's true. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
One more to talk about, boys. This is this game looks incredible. This is one I'm not sure like what the actual gameplay is going to be like. But man, I saw this and I was like, this game's beautiful. And the combat kind of looks neat to me. It's called Blades of Fire.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
This is a kind of third person combat oriented game, but the kind of the hook in this one is the different types of weapons that you use affect how you fight the characters that you're coming up against and the different monsters, different creatures or characters are weak to certain weapons, whether it be a piercing, a slashing, a blunt weapon, something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
This kind of trailer that we saw goes into that a little bit. I think the art style is fantastic. I think the animations in this game look great. The weapons look really fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I mean, it looks like it's action combat, but it almost has a little bit of the tactical nature where it's like you really have to think about how you're approaching swinging your weapon or thrusting your spear or something like that. What did you guys think about this one?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I thought this game looked great. crazy good like I don't know I don't know a whole lot about it I don't know what you do in it I don't know if it's a souls like if it's just action if it's just a hack and slash or what it is but like The thing that really sold me on it is you have the three damage types, but you could use one weapon to do two damage types by shifting the way you hold the weapon.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
So I was like, oh, your sword is slashing damage usually, but if you change the way you hold it, now it's piercing damage. I was like, that's super cool. With different attack styles and animations and all that as well. That's just so cool, and it makes common sense. Like, of course.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
When people say, hey, what's a game that I can play with my buddies that's a lot of fun? Deep Rock Galactic is one of those suggestions that is just so easy to throw out there because you're going to have a good time. Like, plain and simple. You're just going to enjoy it. Then we covered Deep Rock Galactic Survivor. It's Survivors, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Yeah, the trailer shows you kind of walking through, like, castles and dungeons and open forest and stuff like that. You're definitely fighting, like, you know, multiple creatures at once. I'm almost reminded, and I've never played this game, but, like, For Honor kind of jumps to mind where it's, like, it is combat. Yeah. But it's just not like just button mashing. Like, it is intentional combat.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And then, again, your weapon choice. You can forge weapons and stuff like that. All right. So pick if I'm going to I'm going to make you do this, boys. Pick your top two games. And I know there's more because there's more that I'm interested in. And that's hard. But pick your top two games out of the list of games that we've talked about that you're most excited for.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
If I'm picking one that I want to play by myself specifically, I'm going to pick one for, you know, I want to play with you too. And when I play myself, I really want to play Dust Fade. Dust Fade just looks incredible. It's a super unique looking 3D platformer compared to like whatever else anyone's doing. Like we've talked about two other 3D platformers from indie devs this year alone. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And they look completely different to Dust Fade. But if I'm talking about games I want to play with y'all, like, it's got to be Deep Rock Galactic, Rogue Corps. Like, come on. For sure. I mean, come on. To get back in the saddle again, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
He gets it, Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I'll be sleeping and snoring in the background while you guys are snoring. You would do it on a regular road trip anyway. I'm always driving. I don't get to. I think for me, absolutely, Deep Rock Galactic Road Corps with you guys is going to be just a ton of fun. Dreadmoor is actually the other one for me. I think there's just something about Dreadmoor that I loved Dredge.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I loved that it was an eight-hour game. I loved that it didn't overstay its welcome. I liked the progression of that. I like the vibe of it. So, yeah, for me, the two at the top are Dreadmoor and Deep Rock Galactic Rogue Corps. Nice. If I had to pick just two, so... Oh, boy. Guys, I don't know how, but we made it through this episode. We did it! Yay!
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Yeah, the roguelike auto shooter one. I want to say that, but then I'm like, is it Vampire Survivors? And I'm just crossing up the name there. We covered that as a deep dive as well, because it's a very much a different game and actually one of my favorite games in that genre. So good. And now we have Deep Rock Galactic Rogue Core, which is a co-op roguelike game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
If the editing of this episode goes well, people will not understand the technical difficulties that Ryan had during this episode, but we'll probably make some highlight reels out of it, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I'll never forget today.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And this is another good reminder that, listen, we have really upped our game on social media. I mean, we are posting a lot of content to social media that is over and above just what you hear on the podcast. So make sure you are following us. It's at Video Gamers Pod on every platform. Make sure you wishlist some of these games or all of these games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Honestly, these developers have earned that at least. I mean, these games all look really good. You can tell they're made with passion. And let's remember to just support these indie devs.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Big props to every team here, man. Every team. Every single one of these is a banger.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Yep. I mean, they all look good. Even as much as I troll over the hill, I think the game looks fantastic. Like legitimately, it's just probably not my genre, but even then I'm like, dude, this looks like a great video game. So, all right, that's going to do it for this one, everybody. Until next time, happy gaming. See ya. Peace out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
It looks like Deep Rock Galactic. I mean, it kind of like these guys took their game and then they just went, how many different genres can we make out of this base material? So Ace, why don't you tell us a little bit about Rogue Corps, kind of what it looks like you do in that and just give us a little bit more info on that one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
But before we get into some awesome-looking titles you should know about, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, he's half of Team Smash Bros. Smashing people in the face with Mjolnir and wondering just how he ends up with half my kills. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Well, Rogue Corps looks like a roguelike, of course, because, I mean, come on. Where you're going to gather, you know, upgrades and things like that that don't carry over, obviously, to your next run. But there's probably some kind of permanent progression. And you take on hordes and hordes of enemies with your best buds, man. And these aren't the bugs, either. These are like some kind of bugs.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
They're not the new monster.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
They look like almost like zombie, like not zombie zombies, but they're like some kind of weird alien creature zombie thing. So it is funny that they changed it up from just the bugs, which I think is a nice little touch. So you feel like you're actually fighting some new enemies. Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I know. That's, but that's it, dude. And it's funny because I joke around like how many different genres are they going to make their game? But like, I'm in for this dude. They're all fun. Yeah. I have not played a deep rock game that I didn't enjoy. And I, and people like, there's only two of them, but that's, that's a hundred percent, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
So, and, and this road core looks like it is going to just be dumb fun with your buddies. You know, it, this game doesn't take itself seriously. The upgrades that you get looked good to me. I mean, that kind of flash up on the screen and you can see people picking from the different upgrade paths and stuff like that. We know that deep rock has classes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
So you're going to get the engineer, the minor, you know, that kind of stuff. It, this just looks like it's going to be dumb fun with your friends. And I am in for that a hundred percent of the time, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And you love a good roguelike where you can build a nice custom build on your character.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I like progression. Well, that is progression by nature, but it is like Risk of Rain 2. One of my favorite things about that is you'll play 50 matches, and maybe five of those you get that super OP build that's just game-breaking. But that's the carrot, right? It's like, dude, I want that one again.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And so you play again, and maybe you don't get the super overpowered build, but you make the best of it. And it's just that it's that enticement of like, hey, man, this run is going to be different than the run before because we're going to give you different upgrades, different weapons, different abilities and that kind of thing. And it just it really does keep me invested.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I think the short runtime of a roguelike, you know, plays into people like us that are busy, you know, and we got a lot going on. And it's like, hey, we can hop in for one round of this play 10 minutes or however long around takes. And then we can dip out and go eat dinner with the family or whatever it is that we need to do at that point, too. So. Um, this one, I, I'm going to say it already.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I'm in, I'm in on road boys. So yeah. Oh man. Um, I do. We, we don't have a release date on that one yet. Do we? As far as projected. It's funny because I've seen so many people like talking about this, but it's like, they just, it just, and it's going to come out in early access, which, uh,
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Release date planned to be announced.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Yeah, planned to be announced. So, I mean, this game's already made. Hopefully it'll happen this year. I have faith in them. Speaking of stone. Now I will say this right away. This, this is a genre that does not resonate with me at all. I get that people love it. We have a lot of people in our community that love these type of games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Snow runner is probably one of the more popular ones in this, but there's this game called over the hill. And I was like, of course, ACE put this on the list, but like what a pleasant looking game, man. Like, I feel just vibed out. I feel like I just am chill, and the world is peaceful, and I just feel zen, and everything is great.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Dude, this game made me emotional watching the trailer. I felt something watching it, because it's a co-op game, thankfully, too, which is great. But you get in your cars, and you're going to travel over rough terrain together, and you've got to help your buddies if they get stuck in the mud, and you don't want to leave anyone behind. But you're just like...
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
driving across the countryside or up mountains together, taking in the landscapes. And I think maybe Ryan, you want to come do that with me? Josh doesn't want to.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
It's something about it, man, where you have games that you can play with your buddies where you fight armies or you race racetracks and things like that. There's not many games where you have buddies across the United States, across the country, where it's like, you can't drive together. You can't hang out together out in the wilderness, so why not do it online? I...
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Don't you get it, Josh? Don't you see the vision? Number one, I hate driving because like going on vacation, like I just want to be there. You know, I don't want to spend six hours like getting to the fun. I just want to be there. So like the six hour driving to me is like the bad part. And then like, you know, and I am a very much, I love chaos. I love fast paced.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I didn't know Thor was Irish.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
And then like a game where it's like, but what are we doing? And Ace is like, follow me. And I'm like, cool. Where are we going? We're going up this mountain.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
We're going up the mountain.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Why? Why are we going up the mountain, Ace?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Okay. All right. Well, I mean, hey, you learn something new every day on this podcast. Oh, boy. I don't even know how to follow that up, so let's just go with this one. And joining us, he's the healer supreme, and his back may be hurting, but it's not because he's middle-aged. It's because he's busy carrying the team. With his epic healing skills, it's Ace.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I know people love this. And yes, dude, it feels and looks so chill. The game looks great. I just go like, this is just going to put me to sleep. I'm just going to be like, why are we doing this? Where are we going? Are we there yet? Ace, are we there yet? Ace, are we there yet?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Oh, no. It's over here. Maybe I don't want to play it either.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Never mind. What's over here? Nothing. Okay, cool. What's over there? Nothing. Let's go. Why are we going to see nothing?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I'm sitting in my chair being bored.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Are you going to wash before a road trip? It's just going to get covered in bugs.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Some of us can't afford two car washes, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Okay. You actually wash your own car by hand? Yes. Ryan, we got to have a talk, buddy. We actually said this the other day. You're at the stage in life where you can just pay to go through a car wash and save that hour of work.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Exactly. All right. So over the hill is a thumbs up from both of you. And I will listen. I'll give it a thumbs up. I think the game looks incredible. It is so peaceful looking. The art style is fantastic. The voiceover just was so calm and soothing. And I get it. It's like you were kind of like, dude, this does make you a little emotional. Like it is a beautiful looking game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
So definitely check that one out again. That's called over the hill.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
No release date on that either.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
yeah you know i get it i get it you don't want to promise anything and indie devs they just kind of get ready for release and then they just release you know they don't try to do the shadow drop oh like yeah let me give you an announcement about my announcement that we're gonna announce guys bungee um you know where it's like that kind of thing they just go hey guys my game is out please play it and like it and tell your friends about it i'd like to or they just ghost you like a girl from tinder like uh silksong
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
Then you just get some random text late at night where it's like, hey, I'm releasing in 2025, by the way. Hey, by the way. I'm in the Nintendo Switch 2 Direct, by the way. Just so you know. You're like, why did you send this to me?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
There are a lot of people nodding right now going, I feel you, boys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
All right. Well, how about this? Let's shift gears. All right. And let's talk about something completely different than a very chill, tranquil trip up a beautiful mountain. And how about a demonic slot machine? Because you owe the devil a debt. Dude, this...
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
clover pit i don't i don't even know ace ryan somebody somebody explain this to me dude hey clover pit is like if you took bellatro and you mixed it with another indie game called shotgun roulette the graphics are pretty much the same as shotgun roulette as well which is also the same as lethal company so you gotta have like a little web of every little horror indie game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I got inscription vibes from this big time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I would say inscription definitely as well, but you owe a debt to the devil, and you have to play this slot machine in order to pay your debt up, and if you don't pay your debt in time, the floor drops out from under you and you fall to hell. So...
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
that's a good incentive you know if you ever had one incentive to not mess up but it's a it's like a roguelike too i believe so you're like you're gonna get upgrades and things as you pay off your debts and get you know not permanent progression i would say i think it's probably an endless thing yeah like like bellatro but it's gonna blow up i can see it because people love gambling they
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
It's time to put on a show, baby.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dreadmoor, Deep Rock: Rogue Core and Over the Hill - Indie Gaming Podcast
I was going to say. Ryan's just going to be like, just bet it all. One skin.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I just can't do, you can't put somebody in front of me and then say, you can't beat this guy. Cause it's like, it just drives me, man, where it's like, I will absolutely beat this guy. But then again, I just said I'd never be Hades. So now I know what I'm doing later tonight.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
So, Jack, we want to move a little bit into kind of what it's like to be a game designer. But I do have one more question on the gaming front for you is now we know that you've had your hands full. So if you don't have an answer for this one, that's OK. But is there a game coming out? this year that you have on your radar that you were just like, man, I cannot wait to get my hands on this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
We've seen that a lot.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Tales of Iron 2 is a gritty, dark, fun, and challenging game with a beautiful art style. But how did these rat heroes and frog villains come to be? As gamers, we often wonder... Who thought of this? And today we're going to find out about that and a whole lot more about the game. But first, some introductions are in order.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, we've seen that a lot. It's weird because I played Monster Hunter World was my first kind of foray into the Monster Hunter games. And I love those boss fights like that. The stalking them and tracking them and then the seeing them and the engagement and stuff like that is second to none. I had a hard time with like the. all the subsystems there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Thank you so much for joining us, Jack. So for everybody that is listening, Jack is one of the co-founders of Oddbug Studios, the fine men and women that brought us Tales of Iron and Tales of Iron 2. Tales of Iron 2 just released in the last week or so, and we are going to be diving into all things related to that. So Jack, thank you so much for giving your time to join us today.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, it's funny. I think as we get older, especially, it becomes the, do I have two or three hours to dedicate to this, or do I have 30 minutes to dedicate to this? And more often than not, it's like, I have 30 minutes, so I'm going to play this game versus this one. There's still that awesome, like, I'm setting aside a Saturday to really dive into this game kind of thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
But that's more often the rarity nowadays than it is like the, this is my standard here. Yeah. So, Jack, one of the things that we've been doing lately is kind of a series on the people behind the games. We've talked to voice actors, animators, you as a game designer now and a co-founder for a studio. And so we kind of love that kind of peek behind the curtain.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Because I think, again, as gamers, we romanticize a lot of these things and we have like a certain thinking about what a lot of these jobs are like in the industry. But more often than not, we find out it's not, you know, I mean, yes, it can be a dream job, but it also is work and that comes at a cost. And not every day is a great day at work and things like that. So.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Can you give us a rundown on, you know, and this doesn't have to be super specific if it doesn't need to be, but like, what is being a lead designer like? Like when it comes to creating a video game, like what is your position like in that? What do you kind of oversee or kind of do on a day to day basis?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
A team of five people. Like, what's that like?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I have a feeling it's going to look like the world's biggest bush.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
It's funny because I think I know what you're talking about with these kind of branching, if this, then that things, but it's like looking into the matrix.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Green square's got to be something good. Yeah, that's collected items, yeah. I knew it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Yes, that's a good thing. That's a good thing. So we just wanted to start off by saying congratulations on the release and the success of Tales of Iron 2. We can only imagine what that anticipation, the excitement... And probably the anxiety that goes into working so hard on a game and then finally just saying, here you go, world, it's ready for you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
How do you keep this organized? I feel like I would get so twisted up in knots and then be like, wait, where does this green line go again?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
So for the listeners, we're getting a look at a 2D screen right now that is being zoomed in and rotated to actually show you the layers of depth. Even though it's 2D, it's like you have the foreground, the background, and you can place items and things like that from anywhere in the foreground all the way to the background. So it's 2D, but it's not 2D.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
This is, this is literally like, imagine if somebody took seven layers, you know, and then, and then, you know, you put them together and you look at them from one angle and they look like they're 2d, but there's actually seven layers there. And then you can actually put assets and things, you know, between any of those layers. So this is awesome, man. Cause I've never seen this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I always just thought 2d game. And we see this a lot more nowadays, right? Where you're seeing these kind of 2D games that have depth to them at the same time. And personally, I love that style because I think it really enhances that 2D aspect. But it's really cool to kind of get that glimpse, you know, like we said, behind the curtain.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I had no idea that this is what a game looked like, you know, for somebody that's actually working on it, which is awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
There's just a picture of a door right there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I don't know if there's like layers on layers, man. Look at this separate. So you can put different hairs and things on him, you know? And so is this how you, um, because this is always really neat. And one of the things I love in a game is, you know, when you get gear that the gear is reflected on your character, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I mean, as gamers, we'd love a little bit more insight into that. So if you could... What's that like, man? Is it scary? Is it exciting? Like, do you sleep like the night before the game releases? Like, what is that like for you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I don't know why it's like, it's maybe it's just my brain, but I hate it when I'm playing a game where it's like, I get a new fancy piece of armor or something. And then it's like, but it doesn't show up. you know? And then it's like, well, but that kind of takes away from it, man. I want to see it on my guy. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
And so this kind of design is what allows you to place other assets like on a character design at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
That's, that's awesome. So Jack, man, I could look at this stuff forever because this is really, really cool.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I, I do want to kind of talk about, because you're in the unique position, and we need to be able to chat with you about this, is not only are you a game designer, but you're also a co-founder of a studio. And I think that's just fascinating.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
As gamers, we hear news stories about, hey, so-and-so left this company to go found their own studio, and they're bringing a team of people, and this is going to feel like a classic game that everybody loves or something like that. And then sadly, we also hear about the closure of a lot of studios as well, which as gamers, we hate.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Legitimately, it sucks to hear that things didn't work out for people and stuff like that. And I know that you mentioned that the five of you came out of university. But how does one go about founding a studio? Did you guys all just sit around and say, one night having beers together or something and say...
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
All right, so let's get into Tales of Iron 2 itself. And this is where I know Ace has a lot of questions for you guys. Because like I said, he has 100% of the game. He's been talking about this game since you guys first announced it. He played Tales of Iron 1, was a huge fan of that. I'm not exaggerating when I say this was one of his most anticipated releases ever.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
And so we're going to we're going to kind of hand it over to Ace a little bit to kind of just learn a little bit more about some of the ins and outs of the game itself. So, Ace, I know you got a lot of questions and don't worry, we'll let you ask about the were owl fight a little bit later. And so.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
But so, yeah, what's you know, what's something that you want to know about the game itself or a question there?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
there's a lot of decapitation you know there's a lot of horrible things going on here that's why they can't come in yeah oh man that's funny uh ace anything you want to know more about the were owl fight before we move on uh not quite the were owl fight i do want to know uh what made you guys change protagonists from the first game to this one
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I love that. It just allows you to be more creative. It kind of takes away those barriers of saying we have to kind of stay within this groundwork, so to speak. And then now we can kind of do whatever we want. But we still have kind of a foundation that we can reference if we need to. I think that's great.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
So one of the things in Tales of Iron 2, and you kind of mentioned this, is that you kind of look at this almost like a universe, right? And so when you're going, I should say, when you're planning the kind of story of Tales of Iron 2, you know, you have Tales of Iron 1, it's set, it's canon, you know, so to speak, like... Did you know what you want?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Like, did you have an end in mind as far as like, okay, we want to get from point A to point B story-wise. So, you know, as long as we know this is where we want to be, we can figure out how to get there. Or is it more of like an evolving, like, here's the start of this story. Let's see where this thing goes. And oh, wow, we wound up here kind of thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I guess this is a really good question. It's not something that I think we think of a whole lot. You know, as gamers, we absolutely leave reviews for games, you know, and, you know, we tout games that we love, like aces. Like I said, we joke, but this is absolutely true. He's been telling our community for months and months and months how excited he is for this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
It is really beautiful. I have no artistic bones in my body at all. And it's funny because my wife and kids are all artists. So I just look at them and I'm like, I don't know how you guys do this. How do you do this? So I'm always super impressed when I see something and then I just go like, how did somebody's brain just like poof this into existence? You know, it just, it absolutely baffles me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
But yeah, I, I gotta give you guys credit, man. The art style in this game is beautiful. I mean, it's one of those things for, especially with indie games, you know, we do see a lot more of like variety of art styles and stuff like that, but I am a huge fan of the art style that you guys have come up with in this. I, I, it really just is impressive to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I like that it has this kind of dark nature to it, but there's so much detail in it as well. Like when you take the time to actually look at it also. So yeah, I mean, kudos to all of you guys for that. Cause it's, it's very impressive. So yeah,
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
that kind of leads us into you can have an amazing looking game you can have a game with an incredible story but if playing the game isn't fun then then you know you're kind of in a tough place and so you With Tales of Iron 2, the combat, you guys have upped the combat and the gameplay for this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
And I think that's one of the things that really stands out with Tales of Iron 2 as far as Tales of Iron 1 is that it really just feels much more refined and expanded, especially with the elemental system and stuff like that. What's the process on... When you go from Tales of Iron 1 to Tales of Iron 2... How do you come up with that? How are we going to improve the gameplay?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I mean, from the time it was announced to, you know, up to the release and then after the release, playing it and things like that. So it's like, you know, gamers absolutely will tell people when something is great. But what we also tend to do is tell people when we don't like something.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Like, do you guys sit there with a whiteboard and just say, oh, it'd be really cool if we had this, you know, and if a boss fight, if they had this mechanic, like that would be really fun. I mean, you mentioned that you guys are gamers. So I imagine you kind of have that ability to say what's fun for us.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
It's almost like an Easter egg in a way. And I know gamers love just that kind of discovery. And when you notice it, you notice it. And if you don't, it's one of those things where it's like, hey, this doesn't affect anything. But for the people that see it, this is a nice little thing. And it kind of jumps out at them.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
And so you mentioned kind of that preview period where you send the game out to people and say, hey, play the game. And then there's a review embargo usually. And then people get to kind of start saying, well, here's what I think about the game. What is that like for you guys? I mean, you can't please everybody. And so you're going to see the good reviews that you go...
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
the fun period. I don't know why, but my brain goes, the coming up with the concepts and the ideas is like the, you know, this is where a lot of the excitement is this kind of like, Oh, this would be great, man. If we're going to have this. And I love that you mentioned like, sometimes you go, Nope, Nope, that's not going to work.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Well, Jack, this has been awesome, man. I mean, number one, this has been a blast to just talk to you, kind of get an idea of what this is like. I personally learned a lot today, which I think is fascinating. I'm sure our listeners are going to love this as well. So,
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Really just wanted to thank you again for taking time out of your day to hop on with us and hang out with the guys and talk, you know, gaming and Tales of Iron 2. I mean, you know, especially, you know, us getting to know you a little bit more as well. So, you know... Before we go, we kind of touched on this, but we did mention rats and frogs.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Are you really just that much of a fan of rats that when you guys went, hey, we got to have something, that this is what we went with? Did you have to sell that to your four partners? Or was this just everybody was in right away? They're like, yes!
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Fight, fight, battle. Oh man. Well, listen, once again, thank you for your time for everybody out there. We have, we, we preach this all the time, support indie developers. You can tell the passion that you guys have for this. You can tell that you love just gaming in general.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
You know, obviously there's a business side of things to any business, but it, you know, we, we always say that indie devs are the passion, the creativity behind the industry and, and, you know, support indie devs. Tales of Iron 2 is an awesome game. I mean, you know, it's one of those things where we have seen many people in our community talking about it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Ace, you know, maybe more so than others. But again, our partner John has, you know, picked it up and played through it and had nothing but good things to say. So for everybody out there, take a look at this tales of iron to odd bug studios. I mean, support the devs that are doing the good work in the world. So thank you, Jack.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
And to everybody else at odd bug studio for just taking, you know, you, you guys gave your lives or parts of your lives to make in this game so that as gamers, we can have that enjoyment as well. So just thank you from all of us for what you guys do. And again, for taking time to hop on the show with us as well. So yeah,
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Awesome. Yeah, it's been our pleasure. So, well, listen, everybody, that does it for this episode. Again, check out Tales of Iron 2. Support these guys. They are awesome. And that will do it for this episode. So thank you, everybody, for joining us. And until next time, happy gaming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I am your host, Josh. And joining me, he may have big ears and he's hairy, but he's no rat. It's Ryan. Always with the ears, man. Always with the, at least he didn't call me Dumbo. I actually looked this up. There is a Dumbo rat. I was looking up different species of rats before the show and, and literally there's a Dumbo rat.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
We get a look at that. As a podcast, like you said, we get reviews. The positive reviews make you feel good about what you're doing, but sometimes that constructive criticism, I'll call it, is how you get better. Like you said, if somebody's just trashing it, okay, maybe it's not for you at that point. But yeah, I do think that there's definitely some feedback that goes along with that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
What is that process like? The game's been out for, I think, a little over almost two weeks, a little over two weeks by the time this episode releases. But you talked about the kind of calm before the storm leading up to the release where you guys kind of go, we've done everything we can do. And then it releases to the world.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I'm sure there's just a flood of activity talking with us right now about saying, hey, we've got to promote the game. And looking at... Those sorts of things, the response to the game and, you know, all of that that goes with that. But now that we're kind of two weeks later, I think as gamers, again, we think, well, they're just spending their time fixing bugs at this point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
You know, it's all about the bug fixes and that kind of stuff, that kind of immediate response to the release of a game. But is there more than that? Like, you know, I imagine there's some PR work, obviously, because you want people to know about the game and to tell their friends about the game and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
But where does the attention turn kind of within that two weeks to maybe a month post-release? You see where it is. He's sick.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
You saw what I did to him.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
And then I went, I don't think anybody is going to know what I'm referencing there. So I just went with the classic.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
So that's actually something really interesting. And I don't think I didn't realize this anyway. And obviously, you know, review scores matter. But is there actually like a threshold where you go, hey, as long as we're over this number, we're good? I mean, obviously, everybody wants to be in the, you know, that 97% overwhelmingly positive kind of thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
But that's a fantastic like thought there is 80% kind of that as long as we're above this, like we're good. But if we're under that, oh, no. Steve shoots you down.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. And joining us, he's the guy that set the world record for most mentions of Tales of Iron 2 over a span of six months.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, yeah. It's true. The two buttons, you start with those two buttons and then you go from there, you know, now we got 12 button mice and keyboards and all this stuff. Um, so do you have like a favorite game that you've played over the last few years?
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, I love tower defense.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
I'm Elden Lord, I've beaten Melenia, and I can't beat Hades, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Hey, I know you got John to pick this game up, and then John fell in love with it. So that's at least one extra sale right there for Ace. And joining us, he's the man who helped found Oddbug Studios, the splinter to our Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the one, the only, Jack Bennett!
Video Gamers Podcast
Dishin' it with the Devs of Tails of Iron 2 - Gaming Podcast
Is it something about us bald bearded men that relate to Kratos? God of War is one of my favorite games of all time.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
hello fellow gamers and welcome to the video gamers podcast relaxing games life sims cozy games are not what we'll be talking about today the fact that video games can span all genres and types is incredible but what about those games that give you anxiety or mess with your mind The suspense a game can build is second to none.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
That is incredible insight into the games because one of the things that always stands out to anybody that has played Little Nightmares is the size and the scale of even the rooms that they're running through. I mean, everything is so... larger than life for them, including the really terrible creatures that are stalking them or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
It's really neat because I never thought about that insight. So it's really awesome to kind of have you point that out. Maybe I'm just dumb, but it's like you're getting that childlike perspective where everything is larger than life. And so something that may seem normal to us as adults to a child is very much larger than life at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
Especially the nightmare creators. Merv, how are you doing today, man?
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that they do. Mine are older now. They just leave me alone. They're like, Dad, you can just play video games. We don't need you for... Oh, this broke, and can I have some money?
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
That is something that we face. I mean, especially as older gamers, gaming dads, people with families and stuff like that. As much as I love an epic 60-hour game, you're 100% right. That if I look at a game and I go, man, this is an 80-hour game and it might be great, but I just don't have the time to put into that. That can actually be off-putting to people now. Oh, it is for me.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
So these finer crafted experiences where a game is 10 to 15 hours, we've actually started saying that's kind of the sweet spot. And I think that we're seeing that in the industry where even large, these AAA studios and things like that are kind of pulling back a little bit and saying like, hey, people don't want to have to commit 60 hours to this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
So, Marv, you... You touched on something that I cannot wait to talk about, which is that re-animal, you kind of teased this, is leaning more into the horror aspect and kind of branching out. And I want to talk about that a little bit more, but we have to take a short break and we'll be right back. All right, we are back. Murph, you tease this so well.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
How does this creepy pig make you feel? And they start crying. You're like, okay, we got it guys. Oh man. Well, Merv, thanks so much for joining us today. This is going to be a blast. Uh, you know, I hinted at it at the start, but John, uh, He has been shouting Re-Animal to anybody that will listen. Little Nightmares 1 and 2 are some of his favorite games that he has played.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
So let's dig into Re-Animal a little bit more because you guys have the experience. You have the history. You have crafted these games with Little Nightmares 1 and 2 that have sort of given you the training and the expertise. You're like a ninja that's just been honing their skills their entire lives where it's like, We're ready. We're ready for this.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
You know, this is going to be our masterpiece kind of thing. And, you know, we kind of mentioned that, you know, hey, it's kind of freeing to not be within the bounds of a prior series. Like, you know, once you kind of do a game and a sequel, you're kind of in this lane, so to speak. And when you start a new IP like Re-Animal, you kind of go... We can do whatever the heck we want.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
So is the thinking like, let's just see where we can go with this thing, man. Let's make this dark. Let's make this way more into the horror aspect. Or let's go even creepier. Because I'll be honest, in these trailers, creepy... I mean, it feels way creepier than Little Nightmares ever did. And that's saying something, man. So is that like the angle?
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
Is this something you guys are kind of pushing the boundaries on?
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
Almost like an evolution versus like a pullback in a sense. Like let's evolve this into this direction versus like pulling back and maybe trying to make it a little bit more timid, so to speak.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
I have played them as well. I have to say, Re-Animal is looking absolutely just off-the-wall bananas to me. There is such a unique style that you guys have that it's so memorable to gamers. It's like... I knew right away. I mean, if you just showed me a 10-second clip and said, hey, do you recognize this? I'd have been like, oh, yeah, I know that.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, so we're super excited to talk about Re-Animal and to just get to know a little bit more about you as well. So why don't we start there, Merv? You are the narrative director for Tarsier Studios. So can you explain a little bit more about what a narrative director does and kind of how long you've been with those guys?
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
What year?
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
I'm with you. It was an okay movie, but I had higher hopes than what it turned out. I know. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
Katana to me is one of the coolest weapons, man. And I don't have to worry about running out of ammo because that's the thing. You get a zombie horde coming after you, you got a shotgun. What are you going to do when you run out of shotgun slugs?
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
Look behind himself before he answered this question.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
I really loved the first two seasons of that and then it just fell off after that. Well, Merv, listen, we're out of time on this. We want to respect your time. We know you've got a lot going on, and we are just so thankful for you to hop on and chat with us, man. Starstruck. Number one, you're a blast to talk to, man. Love the personality. Can tell we grew up at the same time and all that, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
So it's nice to talk to some fellow OG gamers that understand the greatness that was the 80s.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
If you haven't picked this up, we're very excited for Re-Animal. Honestly, you guys are making something, I mean, that looks incredible. You know, gamers are very opinionated. We're not afraid to say what we think on something. We know that's difficult for, you know, people that are making games sometimes, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
But there is a lot, a lot of excitement from our community and our listeners and people that we have seen uh, you know, about re animal. So we know it's a lot of pressure for you, but things seem to be going very much in the right direction. If that allows you to sleep, uh, at all, we'll do our best to, to,
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
to give you what you crave we know you are and that's there's a there's a comfort there there's an excitement there as well for us so thank you so much for joining us Merv we cannot wait to see what you guys create for us and how you can just creep us out and the evolution that you know you guys are doing with re-animal as a studio too so we're very very excited for this thank you so much Merv for joining us on this episode
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
That is it for this one, everybody. Make sure you check out Re-Animal when it releases. It's the long wait, man. It's the long wait for a game that everybody's hyped for, but we know you guys will do it right.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
Awesome. Well, thank you everybody for joining us. That's going to do it for this one until next time. Happy gaming. Toodaloo.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
And today we'll be talking about a game that is so creepy looking, it has us going, who the heck came up with this? But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, he's been our little nightmare about how much he's been talking about this game. And if he gets any more excited about this episode, we may need to put him in a cage. It's John.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
We're having a dance.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
You go, you go. I was just going to say something you said that's fascinating is you guys had this idea, but you didn't know the end result of this idea. And it's funny because as gamers, I think a lot of times we look at a studio or a game and go, they knew exactly what they wanted to make, you know, and then they just they got the right people in and they made this thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
And that seems to be like it is very much not the case.
Video Gamers Podcast
REANIMAL & the Art of Fear – Interview w/ David Mervik (Tarsier Studios) - Gaming Podcast
And I would listen to me, too. And joining us, because I learned long ago, you never upset someone that can come up with ideas this dark and crazy. It's the amazing, the smart, the talented, the handsome and kind, totally awesome and nice person, the narrative director for Re-Animal, it's Murph!
Video Gamers Podcast
Indie Next Fest Showcase: Speed Demons, Squirrels & One Very Sleepy Man - Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. I am your host Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
Room to zombie ratio is just off the charts, man. Yeah. Oh, you four-bedroom? You're probably pretty safe, man. You're good. Oh, man. Don't worry about it. Eight-bedroom with a penthouse? Oh, man. Oh, and a casita? Oh, dude. There's already zombies in there. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
You have your wings labeled? Like, oh, no. Oh, my goodness. We're so stupid. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
It looks so good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
It looks incredible. Dang it. This is going to be another one. I got, I got, we got King of Deliverance. Like, yeah, multiplayer. We can play together. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
it in my veins please dude i i uh and like i said i haven't played hades but um immediately i was thinking like because i've seen gameplay so i'm like yeah hades endless dungeon um a lot of these kind of kind of top down isometric like it just looked so cool in the effects in the attacks and the even the even the the art style the way the way everything is drawn it looks awesome and
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
And I immediately like there are certain things where realistic graphics like aren't needed. This is this is it has that little artistic flair to where you can tell they intentionally made it look this way. And for good reason, I love the look of it. I think it looks absolutely amazing. The gameplay looks awesome. And this is one that we are 100% going to play.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
What do you think, Ryan? That's an audacious number for sure.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
Don't get me started on early access, man. Dude, I hate it so much. I, that's a me thing. I know it. And I understand people want to, that's why you do pay the test and you check it out. But man, I, I, um, yeah, I'm not a big early access guy, but having said that, this already looks pretty dang streamlined and it looks clean. It looks good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
$40 for an Indy seems a little wild, but... I would say typically 25, 30. That's, that's that high spot.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
And we're going to learn, you know, when we hop in and play, cause we are going to do that. Uh, exactly how streamlined it is. So, uh, I'm stoked.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
That's why we do this because we told Ace, find the diamonds in the rough. Tell us games that we would not have known otherwise. And this is one of them. I would have never, ever have known this game existed and never have played it. And now I can't stop thinking about it. I'm stoked.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
I don't appreciate Indies as much as you guys. Maybe. Hey, we're here to change that, man. Yeah. That's what we're here for.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
The good thing is, just staying on the topic of graphics, you only need a GeForce 470 GTX to run it, or a Radeon 6870. You're good to go with pretty much anything, including a potato.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
You're good to go. But... As we've said before, Josh's graphic snob requirements aside, graphics do not make a good game. Gameplay and fun does make a good game. So this one actually looks pretty cool.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
and i don't know man i this is one that's like i'm you got me really curious on this one now i i'm reading reviews here and everybody's saying they just wish it was more like they just want more of the game which is a good thing yeah they just they said it was awesome it was a great experience and they just wish it was longer and they had more you know to play which is always a good thing that's
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
Especially something like this, an indie game like that, when you're left wanting more, that's cool.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
Too rich for my blood.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
If it was $4.99, then maybe.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
It's the Oasis, man. Come to the Oasis. All are welcome. All are welcome. No toxicity. It is just an amazing place. Everybody gets along. Everybody has fun. Everybody discovers games they would have never played otherwise just through communication. So it's awesome to see every day all the people engage and interact. So... It's really a cool place to be.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
So just come on board and hang out with us, man. We're in here every day. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
You know, that's it seems to me like always indie games always have the best music. Is that just me or is it like that's an indie thing?
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
That would be, yeah. We'll get in the board meeting there and see what's going on.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
He's a world traveler. He's vacationing all over the world and leaving us here in Arizona. I think he said he got six hours worth just on his plane flight and through his travels. He's definitely in the mode of the game and he's liking it so far. I think I'm with you, Josh. I probably won't get into this one. We got Kingdom Come tomorrow.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
Once this is released, we've already had a few days in to this game, but yeah, that's not to take away from people that are interested or want to play, but it's just one of those that we probably won't get into, but we'll dive into it for sure with Ace.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
You guys got that right? You guys got it? Yeah, okay. All right, all right, good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
Fight the aliens. That's awesome. I love these games that are like group communication games that are just chaos and craziness and people die and things are just all over the place. I always are drawn to these types.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
okay it's definitely um the the camera angles and the effects and the look of it 100 resident evil like it it took me back to old playstation 1 running through those games like with that eerie effect the dark kind of gritty nature of it in the way the the angles are like i said so man that's that's uh exciting to hear that i i like the fact almost that
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
It's like a throwback, but also it's going to still be difficult. They're not just going to make it easy for everybody to just kind of power through. So it is going to have some difficult nature to it. There's not going to be a ton of saves. You're not just going to be able to blast through the game. So it's going to have still some challenges to be in front of you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
Why is a zombie always a mansion, dude? That's what I want to know. That's a good question, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
It's got like a million levels and a million rooms and basements and attics and all these things and courtyards. It's always a mansion, a big estate that you have to navigate through every time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
We're going to start selling zombie insurance to the rich. Perfect. There you go.
Video Gamers Podcast
Headliners, The Mute House and Sworn looks SWEET - Gaming Podcast
They only like mansions, man. Look at this. Mansion, mansion, mansion. See what I'm talking about? And they were like, oh, yeah. Man, it's going to sell itself.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Hey everybody, it's Josh and Ryan. Don't hit that skip button. We have a huge announcement for you. As many of you know, our good friend Paul and former host of the show runs an amazing charity to help foster families and foster children. And we are announcing our very first charity event ever and we've made it very easy for you to help. Ryan, tell them what they need to do.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
The other thing, combat aside, I think the combat looks fantastic. And I actually really do like that they incorporated quick time events into combat because I think that helps somebody like you that maybe thinks, hey, this is too slow.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
If you actually have to pay attention to a perfect hit timer or parry timer or something like that, hopefully that gives that little bit of engagement that you would be craving in combat. I think the combat looks fantastic, man. The creatures they showed, the camera angles, the huge hits. This is so cinematic. It's ridiculous. Apart from the combat, I think the world looks incredible.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I mean, they show different characters. They show you traversing the world and all of these really fantastic biomes. I mean, this is like it's just something from lifted straight out of high fantasy sci-fi movies. At one point, you get a thing that you can ride or fly in, which is really weird. So I love the weirdness of this game. I love the fantasy element.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
There's a part in this trailer where it looks like the main character gets impaled by all of these roots that something shoots out. And then it's weird because it's like... He's got to be dead. But does this mean these people are like resurrecting or are there multiple copies? And we've seen little snippets of the story in some of these trailers. And so I am very intrigued by this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
So way, way up there on my hype meter. And the best part, Ryan, is this game comes out April 24th, dude. Like we're, we're almost in February. So we do not have that long to wait. I can't wait for this dude. I mean, three months is going to fly by. We've got plenty of games to carry us until then. So I love this, like this game release schedule.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Oh man. We had this break over like December, early January and now it's coming, man. It's like 2025 games are here.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm pretty excited for this. Listen, we've got, we've got some more games to talk about, but we are going to take a quick break and we will be right back. All right, Ryan, we're back. You know, when I was a kid, the one thing I wanted to be more than anything, Ryan, was a ninja. Oh, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Dude, I can't tell you, man. I was so into like karate and martial arts. I ordered like throwing stars. Any chance I got, I pulled my shirt collar up over my face to like hide my beard. I was like, I'm a ninja.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Yes, finally. Oh my goodness, dude. I had no idea that this game was coming. We got this announcement. We got a fairly extensive gameplay footage of this game. And, dude, I remember the old Ninja Gaiden games. These games were not easy. They were hard. You felt like a ninja, though, at the same time. I'm kind of shocked by this announcement and then this gameplay on this one, to be honest.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I've watched this trailer actually more than the other two because it's like there's so much going on. And the combat is over the top. I mean, they really showcased a lot of stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
traversal, double jumps, wall running, you know, tons and tons of like over the top combat, multiple enemies, a kind of, you know, zoomed out third person view on this one a little bit, which I think serves this game very, very well. Um, I'll be honest. In all honesty, I've been out of the Ninja Gaiden mindset for a while. I can't remember the last one I played.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I know that they have had versions of this, but none of them have caught my eye or gotten a lot of hype from people for me to pay attention to. But boy, am I paying attention now, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, and that is where I'm at.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I mean, everything I saw in this just made me go like, whoa. Like, whoa. Again, traversal elements. I thought this was really neat. At one point, he kind of grapple hooks and then wall runs off of a wall and then double jumps over to another wall. And I'm like, I love that kind of almost platformer timing element to it. Yep. Over-the-top combat.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I'm worried for your gastrointestinal comfort, man. Four chili dogs. Dude, I'm hungry again, actually. Oh my goodness. I'm not a fan of chili dogs. Believe it or not. I love me a hot dog. I just don't want chili on it. Like I want like, give me a Chicago dog, like standard, just mustard, ketchup, relish dog, something like that. But it's like the chili just gets wasted or I don't know, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I mean, fighting a whole bunch of dudes, super showy, just moves and spinning around and leaping and stuff like that. They showed a big boss fight. He does some huge overhead smash where it looks like his sword is all charged up and long. And I don't know if you get different weapons in this game or what, but... I was very impressed with this trailer.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
And like I said, I've always known that Ninja Gaiden is a good franchise. But again, I've been out of it for a long time. And Ninja Gaiden 4 is absolutely getting me back into this franchise. And I can't help but think, if you're Xbox, that's what you want to hear. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
exactly it's like dude we're back baby yeah yeah they need it bad too yeah this is not for like niche gamers anymore this is mainstream like ninja guide and we're bringing it to the world and we've got the world's attention now um the only downside to this one is it is coming out in fall of 2025 so this one is a little bit later this year uh they didn't give us an exact month or date or anything like that see you in 2026
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Dude, I'm the same way, man. Anytime I hear late 2025, I just go, so you mean delayed to 2026, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
So, all right. Well, yeah. So if you haven't seen any of these trailers, look them up because, man, these games look really, really good. And then we get to South of Midnight. And that was a weird transition because I'm actually cautiously excited for this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
But I will be honest, this is the game where I look at it and I go from an artistic standpoint and a music standpoint because they've really focused on that. I think this game is absolutely a work of art. We said that from the very first time we got a glimpse of this game. I am from the Deep South. I lived in Louisiana for 10 years.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
So when they talk about all this Deep South lore and stuff, I'm like, I know that lore. This is real, man. So it does hit home a little bit for me. Even the Cajun accents, they get right in this game. And I'm like, oh man, this is taking me back. So But here's the thing with South of Midnight.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I am cautiously optimistic because I think from an art standpoint and a storytelling standpoint, this game looks incredible. This trailer and this kind of extended gameplay view that we got of this, it was another one with developer commentary and they kind of showed the studio and some of the development process and some of their thinking and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
They really tried to hype up the combat in this game but the combat in this game just doesn't look that good to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
And when you have a developer that's saying our combat is real and dynamic and you can do this and you can do that, but I'm watching the game plan. I'm like, dude, this looks like there's two buttons involved and that's it. Like, you know, I don't want to sound jaded because again, I think this game looks really interesting, but,
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
But I am cautious on this one because I do worry about the actual gameplay elements. They showed some platforming. They did try to showcase the gameplay a lot more in this. I just don't know that it helped their case with me in particular on this one. So what about you? Did it get you hyped for this? Did it almost put you off? What did this extended look do for you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I know that's a weird take because a lot of people love chili. I'm not a fan of chili dogs.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Welcome to a hot dog podcast, everybody. I was going to say, get to the games. Yeah. Oh, and do we have some amazing games to talk about? Man, it's rare that we get, you know, any kind of game showcase where it's like everything that they talk about. I'm like, ooh. Ooh, that looks good. Like, okay, you know, this game looks interesting, but usually I'm just like, skip, skip, skip.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
And just to kind of clarify, because I'm sure there's some people that are going, this game's not about the combat. Can't you guys tell? This game's a story-based, character-driven, beautifully artistic game. And I get it. We are not saying that, oh, this game is Ninja Gaiden 4. It needs to be. The only issue, or I should say concern, is that if you are going for character and story...
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
and artistic impact then you don't necessarily even need combat in your game you know like disco elysium that doesn't have a lick of combat in it and it's one of the best games i think i've ever played i wish there was you know like freaking kujo yeah but like that's
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
That just goes to show you that if you have a compelling story and you have compelling characters, combat doesn't even need to be a thing. But if you put combat and platforming and traversal in your game and you say, hey, this is a major gameplay element. It needs to be good. It needs to be serviceable at least.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
And if it is serviceable at least, then your story and all the other aspects better be top notch. Because what happens is you get this fantastic art style, this incredible music, this incredible voice acting, and then you get very lackluster gameplay that pulls everything else down.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
at that point you know and that's my concern is like give me this masterpiece of art and storytelling and then don't worry about having combat you can go a different route but if you put it in your game guess what people are going to judge it yeah it's at that i mean it's it's part of the game it's what you paid for and you're there to play it and you have to you have that's
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I am too. Just like I said, I think my only concern, in all honesty, is to say, hey, this combat better be what you guys are trying. I felt like they were trying to convince me that the combat was good. And what I was seeing on screen was not as convincing. And I think that was where I kind of had a little bit of a disconnect there. All right, Ryan. So that covers the Xbox developer direct.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
We do have time to talk about one more game. And I am hyped for this game ever since we got the release announced or the kind of reveal trailer on this. I went, oh, and then we just got another glimpse of this. And now I'm like, oh, man. And that is a game called Split Fiction, which is the kind of spiritual successor to It Takes Two.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
It's by the same developer, the same guy, Joseph Fares, who has made a lot of games that are very unique, very interesting takes on games. A Way Out was one of them that we covered on the show long, long ago.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Split Fiction, we took a tiny bit of flack for, Ryan, because none of us drafted that game in our Game of the Year draft that we did, and we got a lot of people that said, dude, what about Split Fiction?
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I'm actually really excited. I mean, who does not love an amazing co-op game? And the thing with this developer, um, I can't remember the name of the studio. Joseph Ferris is the guy that kind of runs it all. Dreep something light studio. Um, But his big thing is I want people to play these games together on the couch. We make couch co-op games. We make games that you can play with your friends.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Okay, this one looks awesome. Let's talk about that. But yeah, man, we got some good stuff to talk about, and we're going to get right into that. But first... Ryan, we got somebody to thank, buddy. We had a new epic supporter sign up to support the podcast. A fine fellow by the name of Patrick O'Brien. Thank you so much for supporting this podcast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Usually with their games, one person buys the game and then the other person gets to play for free. That person just can't launch the game and play with other people. So it's like, this guy has the right attitude, in my opinion, on how he approaches things. The other thing I like is I am the kind of guy where I love variety. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
let me go to a restaurant and order like two bites of everything that's on the menu. And I will be super happy. Like I don't, you know, sometimes I don't want to just commit to the one entree and I really wish I could sample things. And so with split fiction, this is a hundred percent. What they're doing is they're saying we love variety of gameplay and anybody that has played.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
It takes two understands this because they did that exactly with that game as well. Um, I will say split fiction to me looks way better than it takes to like, I thought it takes to look fun and it was fun. It was not game of the year material in my opinion, but I had a great time playing that game. Yeah. Like it was fun. It was simple. It was enjoyable and that's all it needed to be.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
It had crazy elephant murder scene, you know, which is, you know, people still talk about, but yeah, Split fiction to me looks like the evolution of what they were going for. And I am by nature, a huge fan of fantasy and sci-fi. You know, some people would call that a nerd. So call me a nerd if you want, but I love fantasy and sci-fi and that's the focus of this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Like you have these two characters, one lives in a fantasy world or loves fantasy. The other one loves sci-fi and this game mixes those two things. At one point, you're in a futuristic Tron world riding some crazy motorcycle and trying to, like, race your way through some floating obstacle course. And then in the other game, you're, like, riding dragons.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Or, you know, in the other world, you're riding dragons. And then it's like a shooter almost. You know, like a shoot-em-up type game with the old spaceships where you just, you know, there's bullets everywhere and stuff like that. And that just tickles something inside me, man. And it's just like, I get really excited when I see that. I think this game looks fantastic, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Everybody that's listening right now is cheering in their heads because you helped make this podcast possible.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I, I am very excited for this. I think they took everything that they learned from it takes two and I think they're amping it up. And I like that really does get me excited because I think that they're going to take that concept to the next level. And that concept was already a ton of fun. Like, is this a game of the year contender? I don't know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Is this one of those games where people like, dude, this was the most fun I've had playing with a buddy in a long time. I absolutely think it will be that like this game, you can't play it solo. You have to play it with a friend. And I love that aspect, man. You know, and listen, if you think this game looks good and you don't have a friend to play with, come to our Discord server.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I guarantee you we will find somebody to play this game with you. You know what I mean? Like, no, this is something that like we are so passionate about and you're going to be hearing this a lot more. But I'm going to kind of tease it right now is that we are really, really going to start focusing on No Gamer Left Behind.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
There should not be a gamer in the world that sees Split Fiction and goes, dude, that looks amazing, but I don't have anybody to play it with. We will absolutely fix that for you. I guarantee it. Come to our Discord server. It is the most incredible oasis of gamers that you have ever encountered on this planet. I cannot stress that enough, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
So if you were the kind of person that wants to play a game and doesn't have people to play with, especially with as much as we're going to wind up hyping up split fiction, I guarantee you that you will find an awesome gamer to play with. Nobody there is toxic. Nobody there is mean to people. Like nobody gets slandered for their opinions.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Like this is genuinely the best place for gaming on the planet. Come see. Don't take our word for it. Join the Discord server. Lurk. Find out for yourself. You are going to be amazed. But do not think that you can't play this game because you don't have somebody to play with. We are here. I don't know how much clearer we can make that. We will make sure that happens.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, absolutely love it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I can't stress it enough. I know there's people that are thinking, oh, that sounds great. But like, you know, I don't get to be a part of that. Yes, you do. You get to be. We're inviting you right now. And all you have to do is just click the Discord link. That's it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. All right. Well, listen, that does it for this episode. Dude, I'm hyped.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Five games on my hype meter, man. Just like that. How much more fun does it get?
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
So thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode and you haven't done it already, please take a second to follow us in your podcast app. Click that plus button, that follow button. That way you get all our episodes the day that they release. And I mean, maybe there's going to be some extra episodes coming for people that they want to make sure they're aware of. Keep your eyes out. Maybe.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, maybe. So you want to make sure that you know when those episodes might be releasing. Yeah. So make sure you follow us. If you want to support the podcast, just like Patrick O'Brien did, and get a shout out on the show and help this podcast, you know, just be broadcast to the world. You can do that over at MultiplayerSquad.com. And if you haven't done it yet, leave us a review.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Give us a five star rating. It helps other gamers to find this podcast as well. So once again, thank you for joining us. We will be back with another fantastic episode. We've got a pretty good idea of what we're going to do next. And I'm pretty excited about that one as well. So until next time, happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Well, thank you, Patrick, for supporting the show. Thank you, everybody else that is out there that is supporting the show. If you are listening to the show, thank you so much for joining us. We hope you're going to have a good time. We're going to tell you about these games, give you our opinions, a little bit of hype because that's what we do. But thanks for joining us on this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Ryan, let's just get into it, buddy. I am so excited to talk about some of these, man. And we're just going to start at the top, man, for me, at least. I don't know for you. So I am actually curious because you haven't talked about this game a whole lot.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I am very curious to kind of hear your thoughts on this. But we got an extended gameplay trailer with some kind of developer commentary. We got a much deeper look at Doom, the Dark Ages. Dude. Oh, my goodness, man. Now, I've made no I've made no like I've not hidden the fact that I absolutely love Doom Eternal. I think Doom Eternal is one of the best first person shooters that exists. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
For what that game tries to do. It does it perfectly, dude. optimized graphics, soundtrack, gameplay. It is just absolute perfection when it comes to a single-player, first-person shooter campaign. Did you ever play Doom Eternal? I did not. Not that I recall, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I get it. It's weird, man. I see a lot of people picking up Doom Eternal and not having played it. And then just, it's fun because I see it and they're posting and they're like, oh my goodness, man, the gameplay in this game is peak. It's like, yeah, dude, it really is. So I am a huge fan of the Doom series.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I won't claim that I've played all of them, but Doom Eternal, like I said, is one of my favorite first-person shooters. If you have not played that game, it is incredible. And I highly recommend that you pick it up because It is going to feed your hype level for doom, the dark ages, like it is feeding mine. So yeah,
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
It's one of those things where it's like, how do you follow up a game that did what it was trying to do so perfectly, right? Like, you know, this is the danger of a sequel, right? Is it's like, hey, we made Doom Eternal. That game was awesome. What do we do next? And I don't think anybody really knew the preview.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
The short preview that we got showed him holding a shield that had like a saw, like saw teeth around it. And I was like, well, this is interesting looking. But the developers came out and they basically said, look, you know, we have to stay true to the game. We have to kind of stay true to the formula, but we do need to mix it up some.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
For every person that shares a screenshot, we are going to donate $10 to the charity to help these families and these children. No gamer left behind. No kids left behind. Now enjoy this episode. Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. On this episode of This Week in Gaming, we're breaking down the Xbox Developer Direct and talking about a slew of awesome games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
So what we did is if you are familiar with Doom Eternal, it is very movement based. There's a lot of grappling hooks. There's a lot of double jumping. I mean, it really is the kind of if you, you know, you kind of learn to fly in Doom Eternal and stay mobile because you'd get wrecked otherwise. Yeah. And they even said in Doom the Dark Ages, the theme is stand and fight.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Well, you know, you got to be the meat shield, Ryan. But I love this aspect that they took with this. And I literally got chill bumps when he said the goal is stand and fight in this one. I just kind of went like, Ooh, and they show you as this big clunky dude with your shield in hand and you are just blocking stuff, your shield charging.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
They showed a mechanic where you can Perry and deflect like attack. So monsters will shoot out multiple projectiles and one of them will be kind of glowing green. And that's your kind of signal to say, Hey, you can deflect this back at them. What was your takeaway on this? I mean, like I said, we've not talked about this like me and you. So are you hyped for this?
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
What are your thoughts on this, man?
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I'm hyped right now, man. I feel like I want to just shield bash something. Boom. Yeah, I mean, I cannot see a world where this game does not live up to the expectation, to be honest with you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
The only thing I can think of is like if you don't like the kind of shift in the gameplay mentality where, hey, you are this tank, you are strong, you are going to stand in front of these fantastic demons and you are going to face tank them. You know, like I could get that. Maybe some people are like, man, I really liked the movement in this kind of ballet of destruction from Doom Eternal.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
This game feels a little bit different than that. And so I'm not a huge fan. But otherwise, these guys know what they're doing. What we have seen already is enough to tell me that this is absolutely going to be a banger of a game, man. I like it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
this is at the top of my hype meter and we're going to talk about another game that I am very excited about next, but like doom, the dark ages for me is just my kind of game. It's like you said, if you're in the mood for that gritty dark, like I want to just face like the hordes of hell, you know, as doom guy and just rip and tear until it is done.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Like this game looks like it's just going to give that to you in spades. Um, And not only that, but we got a release date, Ryan, which I love. It is May 15th. So that is not that far away. We're not talking about end of year 2025 where we have to freaking wait a whole year for this game to come out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I'll hold my breath for that. Didn't you steal this game for me in our game of the year draft? I might have. Isn't this the one that you stole from me that I was like, Ryan, I really wanted to leave with that one? I think you're right. I don't have it in front of me, but I'm almost positive that's it, and I'm really not happy about that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
It was absolutely. I'm almost positive you were like, I can't let you have all the games you want, and then you just stole it from me. This is the way. Yeah. Now I'm stuck in the, like, I don't want you to win, but I also want this game to be great. Ha ha ha.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Oh man. All right. Well, yeah. So doom, the dark ages, Ryan, we got to get you into doom eternal. If nothing else, play it for two or three hours to just get a taste of it because it is, it is just, yeah, it's amazing. I'll have to check it out. All right, so this next one, this is where you and I are going to differ. What? I can see Ryan's face already, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
So I have been very excited ever since we saw the very first trailer for this game called Claire Obscura Expedition 33. To me, this game looked like it was the next-gen Final Fantasy, over-the-top, turn-based combat, fantastical world. brand new IP, new scenery, new characters, all this stuff. And everything I have seen about this game has gotten me more and more hyped for it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I remember when we first talked about this game, you went, turn-based combat, not for me. And things have not changed. Well, they're changing, buddy, because you don't have a choice. I don't know if we've officially announced this yet, but you have been picked and forced by a legendary supporter to play this game. And I'll tell you what, when they picked you to play this, I lost my mind.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
We virtually high-fived. I went, dude, you have no idea how happy this makes me that Ryan has to play this game because I am so hyped for it. And you are not. And it's like, can this change your mind? It's fine. It's fine. This is fine. So you got a little bit of, I want you to kind of take this one, Ryan. Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Because we got an even further look at this game as far as some of the characters, some of the combat. They showcased a lot more of the very cinematic combat with like quick time events to kind of get those perfect hits and blocks and things like that. What do you think, Ryan?
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
South of Midnight? Check. Ninja Gaiden 4? Check. Claire Obscura Expedition 33? Check, check. And Doom the Dark Ages? Check, check, check, check, check.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
That's my hope, man. I mean, it really is. And I know it was Fitner John, a.k.a. John Tastico now, that picked this game. People are going to be hearing that name a lot more here in this next episode. So stay tuned for that little teaser there as well. But John picked this game for you to play. And my instant hope was if there is a game...
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
that could change your mind on this one then i'm really hoping that this is it dude like i i don't know like it's weird to me because i love turn-based combat and it's funny because somebody in our in our community was like hey this kind of reminds me of like persona 5 royales combat and then i kind of went like don't say that because i didn't love that combat so much yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
But I historically do love the tactical nature of turn-based combat. I like that this character's near death, but the creature's almost dead. Do you go for the big hit and hope that you win the fight? Do you heal the character, but then now the boss gets an attack? You know, that kind of thing. I like that just kind of thinking about how you're going to approach this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
as well as some new gameplay from split fiction the co-op successor to it takes two before we get into the fun though some introductions are in order i am your host josh and joining me if i'm the fast light fighter jet he's the slow chunky tank a clunky clunky tank who's ready to stand and fight it's ryan
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
As much as I pick on you, I understand your point of view. Like this is slow. It's too methodical. Let me get back to the game itself. But I grew up on these kind of games. Final Fantasy, you know, that kind of stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom: The Dark Ages, Expedition 33, Ninja Gaiden 4 and Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
But you love Pokemon.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
There is a rumor that the Elder Scrolls Oblivion remake, the official remake, not the fan-made mod one where it's Skyblivion or whatever they're calling it. This is, hey, Bethesda is remaking Oblivion. And people went, no. And then there was a well-known leaker that is a good source that said, guys... I don't think people realize this, but the Oblivion remake's probably going to drop in April.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Don't worry. When people hear your sign off, you're going to be right back on the doofus team, buddy. So... Yeah, I can vouch for that. Oh, man. People are like, wait, I got to skip to the end now. Guys, what a week for gaming news, man. I love it. Look, you know, it's one of those things like everybody loves lots to talk about.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
And people went, dude, that's like a week from now. What are you talking about?
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
No, I mean, maybe. I don't remember the guy's name, man. All right, maybe that's not the best nickname ever. So this guy comes out and says this, and then this story starts to kind of spread. But as it spreads, it's actually gaining traction. And not from the, oh, did you hear about this? There are industry people...
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
that kind of are in the know that are saying, no, dude, this is actually happening. Like the thing that is not known is how soon it's going to drop. Okay. Some people have said, hey, they're going to release it in June. Some people have said it's coming in like the next week. Yeah. I saw some footage of this, and it looks legit, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
If this is happening, this remake is not just a... We're re-releasing it for the 10th copy of Skyrim. This game actually looks really good.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
That's why I mentioned that.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I the thing that I have heard that gets me really excited is these this is a full remake. This is not just a cheesy remaster where we added a few more polygons and up the resolution of the game or something like that. This is like, hey, we have actually remade the combat. We have remade the world. We have remade this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. It's been a great week for gaming news, from the release of Assassin's Creed Shadows to the massive amount of games showing off in the future game show. We've got a ton to be excited about, but first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh, and joining me...
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
And, you know, again, we try not to get too hyped on rumors, but it does make sense, dude, especially after the mediocre response to Starfield. Yeah. Right. Like Bethesda kind of needs something to tide people over until the Elder Scrolls six comes out. And so giving people a remake of one of the best games that they have made actually makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
And I love the idea of this shadow drop that is coming to where once it's announced, it's like it's just ready for you. Right. I love it. Gamers love that stuff, dude. Like, there's not a gamer alive that doesn't love the, like, wait, this game is, I can buy it now? Like, see ya. Yeah. And I'm going to play this. So there is a lot of credence behind these rumors.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
I do think that this is very likely. So we are putting it on people's radars that may not have heard of this because I do not hear very many people talking about this right now. So, yeah. All right. Man, we... We got a lot of games to cover, guys. I know, right? All right, let's get to the future game show stuff. I mean, this was two plus hours of game trailers, which I absolutely love, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
But like we all kind of look at gaming news for the week and game releases and trailers that we see. And we kind of compile all this stuff together. And some days we look at it and we go, man, there's like two things that are worth talking about. Other weeks we go, guys, we're going to have to shorten this. Like, there's too much.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Awesome trailers, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that one's tough because it's like Morrowind was brutally hard. If I remember right, you didn't even have like a compass in that game or maybe that's all you had and you didn't have a quest marker. So like that game was not a quality of life game. I got lost in my own house. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
So, I mean, listen, we got I mean, there were probably like 50 plus trailers in this future game show, man. So we did kind of go through. I know we watched a ton of these. But again, I love it because it's number one, short attention span for games. But number two, it's like a buffet. It's like, oh, oh, I found this. This looks really good. Like I'm staying away from that salad bar, man. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
But let's just dive in, boys. And I tease this at the top. But, you know, because there are two mega geeked out guys for this game, we did get.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
another look at expedition 33 um we got this one kind of focused on the girl and forgive me because i don't remember her name at this point um but they were kind of showing off her combat skills and some of the things that she could do oh my goodness man i everything i saw on this i was just in awe dude i freaking love the visual style that you see with expedition 33 gorgeous gorgeous i
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
And Ryan, this might be the saving grace for you. And I watched this trailer like three times and I know, I know that that there are these like live action events, like these quick time events that if you, if you time it right in combat, you get a Perry or you get a stronger attack and it even pops up on the screen. It says, perfect.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
I can't for the life of me tell what you're supposed to do to get that. Cause it's just a little square. And then it's like, Hey, I don't see it. I don't see a little thing going around. I don't see a, like a circle filling up. So I can't figure out what you actually need to do to, to get these. But yeah,
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Maybe something, you know? Or maybe you just have to push it when it's on the screen. Maybe it's that simple and I'm overthinking it kind of thing. But, I mean, this girl's just going ham with a rapier, man. That seems to be her weapon of choice. And she's flipping around. She's doing somersaults. She's doing, like, little corkscrew drill attacks with it.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
You know, this week was absolutely one of those weeks where there was just way too much to talk about. So we're going to have to pare some of it down. So what we do, like any good group of gamers, we're going to talk about the stuff that we're most excited about.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
The monsters that they showed off in this were phenomenal. John... Help me sway Ryan on this one, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Let's go. Let's go.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Because even when you're getting attacked, you can parry to avoid the damage and stuff. So I feel like you're always going to have something to do in that actual combat instead of just sitting there waiting. Like you said, I just, oh, my guy's going to be doing this. I'm going to be bobbing up and down, waiting my turn. And I think something simple like that could work.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Ryan's ready. Let's I mean, let's do it then. So, guys, the release of Assassin's Creed Shadows. Right. We have been talking about this game. I feel like it's been two years now. I mean, people know we have been trolling Ubisoft. We've been kind of kicking that horse any chance we get. We have said many times that, hey, we feel like this is Ubisoft's last hurrah.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Like we talked about Helldivers. Just the fact that you had to input the directions and the stratagems, right? It seemed like such a simple thing, but completely made that game. And so... Like maybe Expedition 33 is like that. I will say this. I'm very excited for the story in this game. I love the idea.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
For people that don't know, there's this paintress that she paints a number and everybody that is over that age just Thanos poofs off of the existence and that number moves down every year. So when it is your year... Like, you know, this is why it's called Expedition 33, because everybody that's 33 is banding together to go try to kill the Pinterest so that they can survive.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
You know, and this male girl.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
She has time, but she goes on this expedition for a reason, even though she's not 33. I saw somebody post and said, are you guys going to make me cry? And the developer actually responded with a, like, cry face. And I was like, dude, this story is going to be really good, too, man. That's awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I mean, we played Heavy Rain together, Ryan, with Paul. And that added to the experience 100%. There is something to be said for... I don't know how epic this game is. If I remember right, I want to say that they said it's about a 30-hour game. So it's not like some epic 100-hour RPG kind of thing either. That's good. It is the studio's first game.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
And honestly, 30 hours is like that sweet spot for me. I agree.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So. All right. Well, Expedition 33. I'm sure we're going to talk about this game again as we get closer. It comes out April 26, if I remember right. Don't tell my bosses, but I did take that day off because this is one where it's like, I know, I know. They see a Josh request for day off and they're like, what game is coming out that day? Yeah. So guilty, whatever.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
But that's how excited I am as I asked off. So, and the game went gold. So we don't have to worry about delays either at this point. There you go. All right. Let's talk about Kingmakers, boys, because we've talked about this game before. We kind of got really hyped for it and then we didn't hear anything for a few months. And then now we got another sneak peek at this. Actually, I say sneak peek.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
We got actually got a lot more info on this because we thought it was just dumb fun. Run people over, you know, try not to hit Henry. And and that's it. But they came out and said, no, man, this has RTS elements. This has base elements, like base building, like you're building a castle.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
It's the only game where it has RTS elements, but you can also just fully drive through or just take a tank through these hordes of knights. Every single knight is actually rendered in the game. All buildings are fully destructible. They showed a tank just crashing through a tavern. So what did you guys think about this?
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
If this game doesn't do good, I don't know what's going to happen to Ubisoft at that point. Well, the game comes out. And like the internet does, if you would believe that half the world hates this game and the other half of the world says, dude, this game's actually pretty good. Now, if we go by just sales and data, the game has passed 2 million players. Not bad. That's not pretty good to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. The thing that I really liked was they actually referenced hell divers as well with like the just fun. That's kind of how they mentioned it is like, look, there are this is not just plowing through hordes of knights like there is objectives. There are things that you need to do. You will actually build a castle to try to protect somebody, you know, from these hordes.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
And then these hordes of knights start trying to storm the castle. So you have to take the battle to them kind of thing. Um, you know, it's co-op, which is going to be insanely fun because I mean, what was more fun than tooling around in a warthog with your buddies mowing down covenant? Well, now you get to hop in an old pickup truck with a freaking gallon gun mowing down nights.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
You know what I mean? Like this is going to be, where do I sign up for this?
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, exactly. So King makers is looking to be really good. I actually really liked the fact that they showed off a little bit more than just plowing through like, you know, hordes of nights on this one. We still don't have a release date on this. 2025 is all it says, you know, so at some point this year we'll get it. And I am getting more and more excited. The more I see about this game too, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
So the fact that it's co-op, Yeah. That's big, dude. Yeah. So, all right. Another game that we have talked about in the past, but is actually releasing very soon. This game comes out April 8th and it's a game called South of Midnight. John is excited. I'm actually excited on this one. I've, I've been up and down on this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
When we first saw it, I went, Oh my goodness, this art style, the music is incredible, dude. And then we kind of got some gameplay footage and I kind of went, Oh, I don't know. The gameplay looks like it might be a little bit mid, uh, But then they showed off a little bit more and I don't know if they just sped it up or maybe it was just a better sample of the gameplay.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
But I was kind of like, oh, wait, this does kind of look good. Very story driven game. Very atmospheric. Incredibly beautiful art style, dude. I'm pretty excited about this one, and I think I will absolutely be picking this one up because I can play it and beat it before Expedition 33 comes out. I know John is super excited for this one, so we'll throw it to you in just a second, John.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
But Ryan, I feel like you're the wild card on this one. Are you interested in South of Midnight at all? I'll bet you want to know there, boy.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Well, that's the question, right? Because I do. I feel like you appreciate what you see, but at the same time, it's not interesting you.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, he put in a lot on Persona 5. Yeah, it took me 100-some-odd hours to beat Persona 5. Jeez. All right. I'm going to just touch on this one. We don't have to talk about it, but there was a trailer for Rivals Hover League. I've been saying forever that I want a Twisted Metal remake or something.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
You caught that, too?
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
This game, normally I shy away from these, but this looks like it actually has the driving mechanics of Rocket League, which are top notch, but with combat, like vehicular combat. I got super amped on that one. That's all we have to say about that. And then I'll tell you what, let's talk about re animal right before we shut this down because this game needs to be on people's radar.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Um, we're actually going to be interviewing, uh, Tarsier studios who are the makers of, Of re animal. And for anybody that hasn't heard of re animal, that's okay. You have now we're going to talk about it a second, but you have heard of little nightmares one and two, which is the studio that is making re animal. Oh my goodness. Re animal looks incredible to me. I am. I am mid.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
I think like little nightmares has a really neat. visual style, incredible music. The gameplay I find to just be a little bit lackluster, but I do appreciate the games for what they are, that atmosphere. But Re-Animal for some reason is really drawing my attention. And we got a very kind of extended, you know, kind of developer interview. You know, the devs were talking about this.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
They showed off more of the gameplay and just that freaky nature of this. John, this is your baby because I know this is one of your top most anticipated. So what is it about re-animal that is getting you so excited?
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
I mean, it looks really good. I would actually like that. Like, honestly, as creepy as these games are, I do feel like they almost had to hold back a little bit. And I feel like if they could lean into that horror just a little bit more, that might open it up a little bit. And so I'm very curious to see if that actually takes place because it's like, you're right there, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
And if you, if you have nailed this vibe so well with how creepy these games are without crossing like a certain line, I can only imagine how much, like how much better or creepier they could be. If you do step over that line just a little bit, just
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
with re-animal since uh you know little nightmares 3 went on to bandai namco so yeah i don't know i really hope for it yeah it's i it's it's definitely drawn my eye like even though i i like i said i appreciate little nightmares one and two i don't find them to be incredible but i do think like they're very memorable if that makes sense um but re-animal i i have pretty high hopes for at this point so
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
I love it. So, John, you mentioned a couple of the others that the only other one that we is not on. Well, there's two. There's Mandragora, which I think looks really neat. It's like a side scrolling, almost like Metroidvania, but combat focused game will follow the light. I thought looked very atmospheric. It's like a guy on a sailboat sailing into some creepy adventure. I don't like it.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
It's like a horror game. It's like an unsettling horror adventure story-based game, I think.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Horror might be the wrong term. It might be like an eerie type game or something. Like a suspense type game or something. Yeah, yeah. I think suspense is probably a better definition. And then Pioneer, I...
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
looks legitimately impressive but it's kind of like we just had stalker 2 so like that's hard to beat so pioneer unfortunately i think that's exactly a stalker 2 vibes is what i got like immediately yeah and stalker 2 was just so good i'm kind of like a pioneer like what are you gonna do you know at this point so i don't know we'll see it does look very impressive so Guys, we already went long.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
We're 46 minutes into this at this point. But hey, we got through just about everything, man. So we hope you enjoyed this episode, everybody. Remember, if you have not done so already, go ahead and rate us five stars on your podcast app. If you're on Apple, you can leave us a written review. We do try to read those on the show when we get some time to do those.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
They really do help people find the podcast and give us a shot. Um, so that's very helpful. So if you haven't done that yet, please take a minute to do that. If you want to support what we do, if you have been listening for a long time and you just go, you know what? This content's awesome guys. You guys make my days better.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
You know, whether it's your chores or your gym session or whatever, think about supporting this podcast. You can do that over at multiplayer squad.com. That's it for this one. I really want to play all these games, man. And I really, I'm trying to draw this out because John's getting so excited for this sign off. So we'll just do it so people can see what we're talking about.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
That's it for this episode, everybody. Until next time, happy gaming. Toodaloo.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
So I don't know. Also, can we take a moment of silence for the poor map icon people that lost their jobs with Ubisoft because you know, Assassin's Creed shadow does not have 50,000 map icons on it. And we know that there's people out there that are suffering because of that. So I would be one of them. Yeah. Yeah. We just want to say we're sorry. Um, No.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
So, John, I thought you were you were leaning into the, you know, to the Internet's a weird place. Right. And we're actually going to talk about this here for a second, because I think it bears talking about we don't want to devote the whole episode to this. But everybody that we have that we see in our community, we have a fantastic discord community that it's a thousand gamers strong.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
He's not excited for Expedition 33, but he can't wait to mow down hordes of knights in his pickup truck. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
And people talk about video games. They're playing the video games. I mean, these are people that are actually playing the games. There's no toxicity. There's no rage baiting. So it's like we have come to trust our listeners in our community. And that's not to say that everybody always agrees or has the same game taste.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
But the people that are playing Assassin's Creed Shadows seem to be enjoying Assassin's Creed Shadows. We're seeing that fairly overwhelmingly that, hey, this game is pretty good, man. I'm having a good time. I'm glad I picked it up. Maybe it's not a 10 out of 10 game, but very few games are.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
But if you're on the internet, the internet would have you believe that this game's terrible, that people don't like it. I saw a complaint with a video that was legitimately complaining because the credits at the end of Assassin's Creed Shadows are two hours long. I don't know if that's true, but it was scrolling for a long time.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
I'm not going to watch this video for two hours, but this was something that somebody was actually complaining about. I mean, but that's the point, right? Is there are people that do care and we can dismiss those people and say, Hey dude, This is a minor, minor issue. Why are you just being all rage-baity and you just want to complain and slander things and stuff like that?
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
But it does bear the thought, at least, that people are going to feel very differently about games. And there are people that... Don't want Assassin's Creed shadows to be good. I mean, just plain and simple.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
I'm sorry. I liked what I played.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Everything. Dude, I love that they were like, this takes place in 1402. And I was like, wait a minute. Kingdom Come Deliverance is 1409. There you go. Watch out, Henry. Watch out. And joining us, he's a sane person like the rest of us because he is. is excited about Expedition 33. So welcome to the non-doofest team. It's John. Oh my gosh.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
And another example of if you played the game, most people that played it went, dude, this game's pretty good.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
I was just going to bring up avowed, man. Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
go spend the time to play assassin's creed or uh or avowed for that matter when i know that i've got like a absolute masterpiece game red dead that's in my backlog right now that i just have to make time for i'm really glad you brought up avowed because i think that was another game that divided the internet right and here's the issue with avowed before before we kind of move on on that the internet would have you believe that the ability to not kick a chicken in avowed or you
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
you know, or mug a shopkeeper was like game breaking. Like this is the worst game ever made. Look how lazy they are. Right? Like that's what people were upset about is they're going, well, look at, look at Skyrim or look at oblivion. That's like 10 years older than avowed.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
And you can do all this stuff, but you can't do it in this brand new game that they've been working on and hyping for the last six years. So this game's garbage, you know? And, and then it's like, okay, well, I'm just going to say it because honestly, we're probably not ever going to get to an avowed episode, but I played avowed. I played avowed.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
It's a, it is the definition of a seven out of 10 game.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
mean that it's mid does not mean bad though you know what i mean and it's like we played it it's a fine video game if you like avowed that's great if you go i didn't like avowed that's fine too because it's mid you know but that but mid does not mean bad the only time and john you hit the nail on the head the only time mid means bad is when you could have been playing some epic game in its place you know what i mean instead and so you know but again
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
For people that played it, they understand. Now, the problem is the people that didn't play it that went, oh, you can't kick a chicken. Look how terrible this game is. And then people kind of go, I played it. It was like a seven out of ten. Those people that have no knowledge of the game itself go, I told you it was a mid game. And it's like, you didn't play this game. You can't talk about it.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
You know, so this is this is why. You can't trust the internet, man. You know, like this is why we do what we do. Like, honestly, people have said, you guys are gamers. We love the fact that you don't always agree, but you will give your honest opinion and you start to trust people around you that are gamers.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
When you start to understand like their game choices and things like that, you know, like. People are always going to have differences of opinion. That's fine. You know, but you got to just get off the Internet and take what people on the Internet are saying as like as gospel for a game to mean like, oh, yeah, this game's terrible. No.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Like honestly, that's it, you know, um, or, or listen to us and then we'll give you a genuine gamers opinion on it. And we generally try to give, that's why we always talk about the mechanics and the aspects of a game. So you can decide if you think that game sounds fun. It doesn't mean we're not going to slam it, but at least you get to make your own decision that way. So, all right.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Thank you for coming to our Assassin's Creed shadows slash internet Ted talk. Uh, Oh, man. I'll tell you what. Let's take a quick break. And then we're going to talk about the Elder Scrolls Oblivion remake that is very likely about to drop. What? Yeah. Right after this break.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
Welcome.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
You know, I'm starting to realize that these cliffhangers I enjoy way too much, and I know that people hate them, but I'm sorry, man. I get why shows do it, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
And just never deliver on it. Dude, you know what the best, I mean the best first-person shooter is? We're going to tell you right after this break. Oh man. All right. All right. So guys, I don't know how I don't see more of the world talking about this, but this one gets me. Ryan's making the face already, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
AC: Shadow Drama, Oblivion Remake and Best of Future Game Show - Gaming Podcast
So there, we don't generally cover like these one-off rumors because we don't want to talk about stuff that it's very unlikely to happen. And it's like, oh, so-and-so told so-and-so that heard it through some anonymous source kind of thing. But yeah,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
We get to learn a lot more about what it is that you do. And, you know, I kind of said this earlier, but I do think that as gamers, we tend to glorify the role of a voice actor. I think, you know, we think, oh man, that would just be the coolest thing to be this character in this game. And I think that we generally don't think about a lot of the struggles that go along with that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And hey, this is a job and it is competitive and it's tough to get into this career and things like that. I'd love to just kind of get a little bit more information about the reality of the job. And it's one of those things where it's like, it is a position in entertainment. That's kind of what we do, right? We're a podcast. We have to entertain people.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And it's kind of the same thing where it's like... There's a gajillion podcasts in the world, you know, and like standing out as a podcast is, is tough to do. And I feel, and I could be wrong, but I feel like in the, in the world of being a voice actor that standing out and getting that traction is often the hardest part, you know? And so that's, let's dive into that just a little bit. So like,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
You know, somebody that's breaking into that field or trying to break into that field, like what's the first step for them?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. We've been diving into the people behind the games we all know and love and there's nothing quite like that character on screen brought to life before our very eyes. We share their story in a way that movies just can't mimic. We are part of their story, part of their struggles and we are there with them.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
It's so hard. Like, I'll be honest, like, you know, I'm a little bit older. You know, I rebelled against social media for a long time. And then I finally went, OK. And, you know, like I said, as a podcast, you know, we are also trying to get in front of people and exposure is kind of everything and that sort of thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Don't try it. We need your voice for this episode.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And it's just like social media is such a grind to like try to keep up and try to make it interesting and all this stuff. And I just sometimes it's like following trends.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
You know, if you can be stupid, that's entertaining for people, right? Well, we're good at that. That's for sure. Also, I'm the world's worst dancer. Oh, man. So is the field like, I mean, it's one of those things where I think we think that it's like super competitive. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And with competition kind of comes the side eye kind of thing where it's like, you know, like, you know, you're not as good as me. I'm better than you and that kind of thing. And so is there... You know, what is that competition like? And is there like I guess does it manifest like a dude like, you know, it's one of those things where I don't like when people are like fake nice to each other.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
There you go, right? Awesome. Well, Melissa, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to hop on the podcast with us. We are very excited. This is going to be a good time. Our listeners, you know, it's one of those things where voice acting is always... It's just near and dear to gamers, man. I don't know what it is, but it's like I have never heard a gamer talk poorly about just the...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Like, I honestly we see this a lot on Twitch and I'm just going to call it out because we're honest about things. Right. There are a lot of Twitch streamers out there that are going like, oh, I love my fellow Twitch streamers. Like, you know, let's support this person. Let's do that. But if they're watching that person, they're not watching you at the same time, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Yes. And so it's like, I think there's this fake niceness that exists in like a lot of entertainment media. And so is voice acting like that? Like what's the competition like? And is there a little bit of that side eye with each other from time to time?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
No, I agree with you. Absolutely.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I fully I really am the kind of person where I want people that meet me to leave feeling better, you know, but I think you touched on it perfectly. Like there are these natural emotions that we have and to deny that this is a normal response to something I think is not doing people justice.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And like you said, jealousy, I think we can say, hey, you shouldn't be jealous, but jealousy is a natural emotion for people. And like you said, it's kind of how you handle that that matters. It's not the what's wrong with me because I'm jealous. It's like, dude, that's a natural feeling. It's okay to feel that way.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
like the, the whole of voice acting. I mean, sometimes I think gamers can be a little critical and say, I didn't like the voice acting in that game, but it's like, as a whole, like gamers, we just, we respect it, man. And I like that. So thank you so much for coming on here. And, uh, I did mention some of the games, uh, that you have been in, but let me just repeat those for people.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
awesome that's i was gonna that's really interesting because it's like i think and again at you know as gamers not knowing and that's kind of the whole point of this episode is to know a little bit and it's funny because like in my head and maybe i'm just an idiot but it's like you know i'm no voice actor but there are many a time i've been in the car or the shower and i'm being stupid and it's like i'm coming up with voices or i'm like you know it's really time i get where i can nail this english accent you
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
You know, I'm going to talk like, and then before I know it, it's like this terrible English accent has evolved into a really terrible Australian accent at that point. And then I can't do it. I don't know why, but it's like, so how do you, and maybe that's the answer is like, how do you kind of like lock in, you know, is it just that it is close to your natural voice?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Because I feel like if I was trying to do a voice or a character, um, I would just be like, wait, wait, I feel like I was talking different yesterday when I was trying to do this. So like, how do you reinforce that?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Cause this is awesome, man. So dragon air, silent gods, AFK arena, uh, a little game called, I don't know, Fortnite. I think people maybe have heard of that. And then another little kind of indie game, maybe called Genshin Impact. Uh, You know, only like tens of millions of people play every day. So this is going to be a lot of fun. I mean, we're very excited to have you.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, these are still voices. Like Ryan's Kratos voice, he had that one time. He's been searching for that ever since. You don't understand.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk like I think the audition stuff is fascinating, to be honest, because it's like this is this is like I think the nerve wracking part of the job, but also the part that leads to actual roles at the same time. So.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
You know, in my mind, and again, probably not the accurate representation, but I think a lot of people think like me, is that it is you go to a studio, you know, and there's 15 people sitting in a waiting room, you know, and they're like, all right, Melissa, you're up.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And you go into, you know, a studio or in front of people and you read the lines that they have you read and, you know, you try to make the best impression that you can. Right. But then I also see like you, you know, have your own recording studio. And so is it, is, is it a little bit of both?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Is it no, like 90% of this is me recording lines in my private studio and then I just mail them off to people or how, so what is the actual audition process like?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Now, how many takes does it take? That's the other question. Here's an audition. Here's the lines we want you to read. I have a little bit of a perfectionist brain. And that's good in some ways, but not so good in others when it's like you can't quite get it that 100%. And you kind of just have to go, OK, 99% is good enough or I'm going to drive myself crazy.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
So is that like one of those things where it's like, do you drive yourself crazy going like, this is good. I don't need to do this for like a 20th take.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Getting that peek behind the curtain is really just fun. And, you know, we might ask some dumb questions along the way, but it's things that we're curious about. And it's like, you know, I'm a kid, man. If I'm curious and Ryan's curious, then I know there's listeners out there that are going like, yeah, I've always wondered that. So, but we do like to start off with the important stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
It was an intro. For an intro. Which we don't normally do like a pre-recorded.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
But to be fair, part of that is we are both like kind of seat of our pants kind of people like prep. We don't prep a whole lot on things. I mean, and so to, to, Ryan was having a hard enough time. So I kind of wrote out what he needed to say.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And I think that was the issue is he would have been fine if he just said what was on his mind, but it was like, we actually had to hit some touch points and it's like, well, now I've got a script. This sucks. I'm not good at reading off a script. Yep.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And that is that you are actually a gamer.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
See, I love that because it ties into the if you like a game, if you are passionate about a game in general, like that just makes it even more fun. Right. Like, you know, there's like, yeah, I could see it's like, oh, awesome. I booked a job. But this is a game that I don't want to play. I would never play. I would never be interested in. And I kind of get that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Like, it would add a lot to be in like a passion project, so to speak. Like, it's like I like not only do I get to do this, but I get to get paid to do it, too. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Yes. Fellow game nerds. Yay. And so we were chatting a little bit before we started recording and kind of over email. And one of the things we always ask are like, hey, what are some of the favorite games that you've played lately? And I got to say, I love your answers on this. So what are some of your favorite games that you've played lately?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
there you go and then i'll see if you fit sorry josh you're not going to be able to be in the next god of war oh i'm too squeaky i i've i've come to accept this man i'm a i'm an old man with a very squeaky high-pitched uh excitable you could be great look he's even got i don't know if you can see him unless he's got the blades of chaos in the background there so yeah oh nice no i yeah i'd like that deep voice but i you know no know yourself right i
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Excitement, I think that's my voice. My voice is just the overly excited about everything kind of voice.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
So I love this because I actually saw a reel that you did. And this, I think, touches home a lot. I mean, we've been doing this podcast for almost five years now. And I love this. So I kind of want to dive into this a little bit. But you did kind of talk about... Like the imposter syndrome or the anxiety that kind of goes with what you do.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
I mean, anytime somebody has to perform, you know, I think again, as gamers, and I think that this is a big misconception is that, oh, this is easy. You know, you get to voice a character in a video game. Like that's the easiest thing in the world. How awesome is that? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And then I don't think that a lot of people understand that number one, it is performing, you know, and that comes with a very high expectation that you're going to do it at a high level. And, you know, at the same time, it's like, you know, you go through so much to book a role. And then you book that role.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And I can only imagine the anxiety that comes with the, oh, please don't let me mess this up now kind of thing. So what is that like? I mean, if you book a role and you're recording in your studio at home, I think a lot of people would be like, well, what's the big deal? But I know it's not like that. So what is that pressure and that kind of anxiety like? And how do you deal with that?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Oh, so you didn't know what to expect.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Oh, dude, I was messed up about it. That game will get you. There's a reason they remade that. So what did you think about it?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. That's yeah. I can't imagine. I mean, and again, I think that's one of the things that people don't think about is it's, you know, life is great when you're booking things and you're, you know, you're kind of building your resume and your reels and things like that. And it's like, okay, this is awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
You know, I would imagine that word gets out that it's like, Hey, this person's really good. They're easy to work with. And so there's that whole like building your reputation thing. you know, along with everything else there. Um, I guess that brings up a good question though. Like, is it, do you ever have to work with like really difficult people?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Like, is there the, Oh, if this guy asks me to change this one more time, I'm going to scream. Like, you know, you don't have to name names, but it's just like, there's gotta be, you are working with people. And anytime you're working with people, there's gotta be a little bit of that like conflict or just stress about not everybody gets along. Um,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
You worked hard to get here. Why be like that once you're there?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, there's too many people that... want to do what you're doing for somebody to be a jerk about it and then be like, there are 10 people that would love to be in this position, you know? And I just, I don't understand that. It's not our nature, like, to just be mean to people for no reason. I can't actually fathom, like, why people are that way. It's in some people's nature.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
I know it. I mean, I've dealt with people like that, but it's just like, I just look at them and I'm like, why are you like this? Why are you mad, bro? Who are you? Yeah. Oh, man. So, you know, I think the other thing is the big question is when we think about voice acting, I think we generally tend to think of two things, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And it's funny because you mentioned very early on that a lot of it is just like for business aspects, right? You know, where it's like, hey, corporations need people to narrate their video that they're making or something like that. And I think, again, as gamers from that gamer mindset, we go voice actor equals gaming or equals anime. And that's it, you know.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And I think that people forget that there are voiceovers for commercials. And, you know, every car commercial in the world has a voiceover. And that's a voice actor that's doing that, you know. Yeah. Is there a difference from your personal experience? Is there a difference between doing, say, a business voiceover, a gaming voiceover, or an anime voiceover?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Are they kind of all the same, really, because it's still you using your voice to do this? Or is there a vast difference in those?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Ryan, I know, is a huge audiobook guy. It goes kind of hand in hand with his job and stuff like that. I've literally never listened to an audiobook in my life. I love just actually reading. And so I just read the books, but I do the voices in my head when I'm reading different characters and stuff. But I mean, kudos, because I never thought of it. And you are right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
These people, not only that, you have to than read an entire book out loud. Do you know how hard that is?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
All right. Well, listen, we're starting to run a little low on time here. One of the things most of that I did want to bring up is when we were chatting beforehand that you mentioned that you are participating in and advocating for Project Hope. And so can you tell us a little bit more about what Project Hope is and what they do?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, absolutely. And then you did mention a game that I know a lot of people love, but Dead by Daylight.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
No, this is honestly one of the ways that we like to say thank you for people that get involved in things like this, because it's one of the reasons that we ask people like, hey, what's something that is important to you? And we love the responses to that. And it's like, it's one of those things where we love putting it in front of our listeners.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And at the same time, just kind of modeling that and saying, hey, we appreciate you coming on the show. We appreciate you advocating for that. And so, you know, it's fun to be able to do that. Um, and you know, we hope that that kind of inspires other people to do that as well. So we'll follow up with you after recording and just kind of take care of that part of things for you.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Um, and then the other thing that this is near and dear to my heart, especially, I know Ryan is absolutely an animal lover as well, but one of the things that you mentioned is you just have this love of animals and advocating for animal rights, which I think is awesome. I mentioned that I went to a college for veterinary medicine, um, I worked for vets for many years.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
I was a marine biologist for several years. Animals are my jam. I love them. And so like, you know, expand on that a little bit for us. Like, what is it that you do or why is this near and dear to your heart?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I love that. I think that we take a lot of people take for granted that we have that right to do that. We have the voice to do that. And our country specifically gives us that ability to say, hey, this is what I believe in.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And I'm allowed to say that, you know, and I do think it's one of those things where social media is not good for this, because if you voice an opinion on something, you're instantly going to get the people that voice the opposite opinion. Yeah. And then it's like, I think that there's definitely a space for conversation for people that differ on things.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
But unfortunately, it seems like social media has just, no, you're on opposite sides and I hate you now.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I think it's very, I think it's very important. And I, again, the sounding like an old man, I think it's something that's lost on, on like younger generations is that ability to just be like, why do you think that way? It's something like we, we're very specific and I mean, gaming oriented, we see it, you know, kind of all over the place.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
A lot of times we are them and that's the beauty of gaming. But there's a gap between an on-screen character and the people that are playing them. And that gap is bridged by the amazing men and women that voice the characters on the screen. On this episode, we're diving a bit further into the world of voice acting to get an in-depth look at the people that help bring our games to life.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
But if I say I don't like persona five Royale, then somebody will absolutely be like, you have trash taste, you know, or something like that. Instead of like, she's like me.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
It might be true, but, but the, it's one of those things where we have always advocated. It is okay to have an opinion on something. It's not okay to insult people for the opinions that they have. Um, and so I love that. Um, all right, well that does bring up one very important question. And then that is what animal would you choose to be if you could choose to be an animal?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
So, I mean, you know, that's two very, very well-known and widely respected horror games. So, like, are you a fan of that genre? Is it just that, like, this is kind of what you wound up playing kind of back to back? Or do you actually like the horror genre?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Did you see the video today where they have one that's coming up to the surface? They said it's, like, the first time they've ever seen it. It was all over the internet. I didn't know they could see it. After this, check it out. There's footage of a deep sea anglerfish and it looks like something out of a nightmare.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
It's going right up to the surface of the water and people are like, this is the first time we've ever seen this. It's like, yeah, that's a monster. That's what
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Dolphin is my choice. I'm biased. I worked with dolphins for a while, but they are there. I tell people this and humans are very egotistical, so it's hard for them to believe, but it's like dolphins are actually smarter than humans are. And then people are like, no, that's not true.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And it's like, they may not have thumbs, but believe me when I say that they are actually more intelligent than we are.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Oh, boy. So, well, Melissa, this has been absolutely a blast to have you on. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to join us and hanging out with a couple nerds talking video games and giving us a look into what voice actors actually do, the things that you go through, the challenges that you face, the joys that you have at the same time.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
But yeah, really just thank you from Ryan and myself and all of our listeners for taking time to join us on this. We have gotten... Some a lot of questions from them and just like we love this insight that we're getting into the to the kind of behind the curtains part of gaming and how all of that is done. So it's really been awesome to have you on. Thank you for being a good sport.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
It's you know, you're super fun to talk to as well, which is great.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, absolutely. And Hey, maybe we can have you back on one day. We'll, we'll, we'll talk about a horror game or something too, or, you know, we'll, uh, maybe we'll show you the outlast trials.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
That game's crazy, man. So, all right, well, listen, everybody, that does it for this episode. Thank you for hanging out with us. Thank you again, Melissa, for joining us on this one. If you enjoyed this episode and you haven't done so already, make sure you follow the podcast. Hit that follow button, hit that plus button. Join our community. We have the best gaming community on the planet.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
The link is in the episode description. And also make sure you look for that link for Project Hope in the episode description as well so that you can take a look at that and hopefully join that with us also. That's it for this episode. Until next time, happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Speaking of horror. If you have not checked it out, this is actually a good game to stream as well. But if you have some friends to play with, it is one of the most bananas games that I think we've ever played. And it's called the Outlast Trials. Outlast Trials.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
okay yeah and it is it is great like we had no i we knew it was like okay everybody like we've heard of outlast we know that that's like a horror yeah and we got in there and this was one of those just like what the heck is going on right i love it i would probably love it i'm sure so thank you yeah you would definitely i'm not the biggest horror guy but the jump scares are what gets me like i was gonna say we're both kind of chickens when it comes to horrors
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
It makes it a lot better. Yeah. We don't mind just, you know, screaming and again, you know, just acting like little kids that are scared out of our minds. And, you know, it makes it more fun. We had a buddy that's very logical and he was like, I don't I don't get this.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. All right. And then in our conversation with games now, this one's a little bit of a hot topic right here. So you mentioned Persona 5 Royale.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And you said it is the best Atlas game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Now, I think a lot of people would say, yeah, sure, Persona 5 Royale, it is the best game. Except they released a little game that's called Metaphor Refantasio. And most people that loved Persona 5 Royale went, this is the greatest game they've ever made. Now, I am going to confess that I played Persona 5 Royale for about 15 hours.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And then I just kind of went, I can appreciate this game for what it is. It's just not for me. I love turn-based combat. I like Final Fantasy games. I grew up on those. I mean, you know, this is one of those things where it's like it checked all the boxes and And I like anime on top of that. So it's like, this has got to be the most perfect game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And I just kind of went, I get why people love it, but I don't know that I love it. So for the people... And you mentioned you played Metaphor ReFantasio. Is that right?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Okay. That's enough for... In my mind, that's enough to say I like this game or I don't like this game. Okay. So what are your thoughts on that?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh, and joining me, he'll never forget that one time he was sick and nailed that perfect Kratos impression, and now he has it at the top of his resume.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
So are you familiar with the game now? We've seen some previews. It's not out yet, but I believe it's coming out in April called Claire Obscura Expedition 33. Have you seen any trailers or anything for that? No. Very much Final Fantasy slash like Persona, like really, really over the top turn-based combat, really neat looking characters. I am personally super hyped for that game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Ryan could care less because he hates turn-based combat, but he unfortunately has to play it. We have this thing where you can force somebody to play a game. And so he's being forced to play that. And I'm really hoping that this is like what changes his mind on these turn-based combat games. Good luck. Good luck. We'll see. And then I love talking about this. So you do stream on Twitch a good bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And, you know, it's one of those things where, you know, it's it's I think it takes our passion and our love of games and it kind of helps us spread that to the world. I mean, we do a gaming podcast, so it's like, you know, obviously we understand that. I and again, everybody's experience is different. I used to stream on Twitch a long time ago. And for me, it was a lot of fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
I'm a super social person. I love talking to people, you know, but it was like it almost made it feel like work at times. So do you do you get that feeling? I mean, is it just the fun of talking with people that are hopping in the chat and hanging out with you? Or how does that affect like the whole like gaming is my hobby, but now I've turned it into work at the same time?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
I get that. Yeah. Ryan and I are very similar in that way where it's like we can't sit still. It's tough to just sit down and do something for a few hours kind of thing. And my wife jokes because she's like, I thought you were going to play this game and I'm up every 10 minutes. And she's like, what? And I'm like, I just can't sit down this long. I need to feel like I'm doing something.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. We can definitely sympathize on that. Yeah. I got a burning question in my head, and we got to go back to the horror game thing for a second. What is the scariest game that you have ever played?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Hey, she just verified that right there.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Yes, absolutely. I tell people, look, it's a little dated. I know the graphics are getting a little old, but if you want a game that is hands down the scariest game that I have ever experienced, Amnesia is it. I know they did a new one called The Bunker. I didn't play that one, but The Dark Descent is so good. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
It's okay. You did it once, Ryan. That's all that matters. I haven't saved. I have the one.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
We've convinced a few people in our community to like pick it up and play it. And I think it went on sale like really cheap for a couple bucks like a week or two ago. So we actually did have a few people that like jumped in and were trying it and they were like,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
this game is great I love the psychological horror like gore doesn't do anything for me for whatever reason I don't know why it's just like my brain's not you know it doesn't it's not bothered by gore or some of that stuff or you know violence or something but man you give me the psychological horror I don't know if you've ever played a game called Phasmophobia but you're like ghost hunters looking around houses and trying to find signs of ghosts and that game will mess me up I want to play that too
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
And joining us, she is actually a voice actor with experience in games like Dragonair, Silent Gods, AFK Arena, Fortnite, and Genshin Impact. It's the incredibly talented Melissa White.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, yeah. That game was just a masterclass in how to slowly mess with somebody's mind and then get the payoffs of like, Oh no. And then like really just mess. I loved it. Yeah. I love the games that can do that and really mess with your head at the same time. So great choice. I'm so glad you said that Melissa. Good answer. I've been telling people that for a long time. So awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices Behind the Video Games - Gaming Podcast
Well, I'll tell you what, we're going to move into some of the questions that we have about what it's like to actually be a voice actor. But we're going to take a short break before we do that. And we'll come right back and dive into that. All right, we are back with Melissa White. Melissa, thanks for hanging out with us here. This is where we get the peek behind the curtain.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Good chance. We're going to read some of them on the show as well. Uh, if you haven't left us a review yet, it takes like 30 seconds. You're doing your part for, for, for humanity, for spreading the joy of this podcast through the world. And, uh, and you know, just, just do it. All right. This first one comes in from Shory07. It's titled Games, Friends and Good Vibes.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And so their goal is to try to save your life by getting you out of this zone before you go crazy. Which is really weird because your car is your lifeline in this game. And I'll be honest, I kind of became a little bit attached to my car. Yeah. And I get that. And I've seen that from other people. And then it's like, well, this thing's not driving me crazy. It loves me. And I love it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
So, yeah. So then, like I said earlier, the whole point is that you're trying to get out of this zone. And to do that, you have to go really deep into the zone to get to the area that you need to get to so that you can get out of the zone and go home. And that's the whole, like, that's your progression in this game. That's the reason you're doing what you're doing.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And now we're all limb technology experts, guys. Made total sense, right? Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
This game has a story? Oh, wait. Don't forget the anchor points and the stability zones because the anchor points, which are the giant balls that I said not so well, are the things that keep reality kind of constant in those areas until you yank one of those away and then things go haywire, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And it says just three dudes who make you feel like you've all been best friends forever. Talking the latest in gaming news, reviewing new releases and just overall great banter. They deep dive random games and even have a feature for fans to choose a host to play and review any game of their choosing, which makes for some pretty awesome content.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
So wait a minute. Let me get this straight. Routes, junctions, zones, gates, closed exits, stable exits, stable zones, gateway. Did I say gateways already? Yeah. When you go to a zone, you can't leave that zone. But when you leave that zone, it opens up more zones so that you can then go to those zones. But you can't leave those zones then until you go to them and then leave them.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And then that opens up more zones. Yeah, clear as mud. What's wrong with that, Paul? As long as your car is healthy, too. Oh, and the whole time you're exploring these zones. Wait, is it a junction or a zone? It's a junction.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
So when you're exploring these junctions, they're all individually procedurally generated maps that can actually be fairly large. Even though you don't know where you're going or can't find your way around, you're just driving around until you can get out of there, right? But why am I there in the first place if I'm trying to just get out of that zone?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Oh, but that unlocks the route that I can then use from a junction to go to the next.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
But through a gateway, but only stable gateways, right? Not stable exits because there's exits in the zone as well, but not those. Right. Gateways and exits are not the same. Just tell us that, guys. We're smart. We could figure this out.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Top 100 game ranks from each host that they update with new releases and deep dives. Perfect audio quality, consistent schedule, and a great follow on Twitter slash X. Listen to one episode of these guys and you'll be hooked. Oh, that's so sweet. Thank you, Shorey. That might actually take the cake for one of my favorite reviews over the past year.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I will say, I think our opinions on this game might differ a little bit, but... When I started to realize that I have to go through these zones every single time I want to go to a zone that's further away, I really started to like nails on the chalkboard in my brain about like, I've discovered this new zone. Why can't I just go there? Like fast travel me there at this point.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And the game's like, Oh no, no, you got to go through the first junction. Then you got to go through the second junction and, But don't worry, guys. Occasionally, there's a highway that's there that will let you skip one junction. But then you have to actually just drive through this highway for a little while. And that's when I was like, to me, this felt like artificial inflation.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Like, don't make your game longer just because you need to feel like you made it longer. If your game is a good experience, I don't need you to tack on an extra five hours of repetition to make me feel like I got my money's worth. I will gladly pay the $30 that this game costs. To give me a better experience. But I think as gamers, we know when somebody is just fluffing like a playtime.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And that's exactly what this felt like to me is there was zero reason to make us redrive through all of these initial beginning junctions so that I could then get to the second junction. And the problem is, is that sometimes you're talking about five to seven junctions later that you're having to get to when you get towards the end game. And you would think, well, I'm near the end game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Can I just warp there? I mean, I could warp back to the garage. The technology exists, right? And it's like, nope, nope. You got to drive through this same zone you've driven through a hundred times. And again, these zones are large and they're procedurally generated. So this road may not be a straight shot.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
It might be a huge snaking loop that goes up a mountain and then down and around and all this stuff. And it's like... I'm with Paul on this one, man. I just got to where it was like, dude, I don't care if I launch this freaking car off this mountain, if it'll get me out of this place faster at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
One of us might have been a little bit late to start recording this podcast. Oh, it was a couple minutes.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Every stinking time. See, this is my favorite part of the game, in all honesty. I know, but there's something about driving this car through the Pacific Northwest, which we had a little bit of an argument before we started recording, but I think this game is atmospherically beautiful. I mean, sometimes there's weather. Actually, a lot of times there's weather. So it might be raining.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
It might be foggy. Maybe it's nighttime. Maybe the sun is rising. But I mean, it's the Pacific Northwest. It's absolutely beautiful. I'm driving down this abandoned highway. It's foggy. The sun is rising. So there's this beautiful orange glow. I've got my radio on. And I'll tell you what, man, the music in this game is freaking top notch, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
I found a radio station in the garage that I was just absolutely jamming to. I need to go back and actually like Shazam all these songs because they are incredible. So it's like, I'm just cruising down the highway, listening to my music. Oh, is that a little bit of rain? Let me look over and turn my wipers on. And they actually clean your windshield for you. And I'm just chilling.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And I'm like, dude, this is peaceful as anything, man. Oh, watch out for that anomaly. Oh, no, my car is flipping. Yeah. You know, so I actually really did enjoy the driving portion of this game. Now, again, that kind of goes back to I don't want to drive through the same zone a hundred times, but I actually really enjoyed the being in the car and moving around part of it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
I know. Tell me about it. Also, quit slacking, Paul. All right. This next one comes in from TimmyG1587, and it's titled, I mean, they're okay. And it says, so I started listening a couple months ago. I listen every single week. I joined the Discord, which has an awesome community. There's value there.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
I'm with you on that part. There's like three different house designs total in this game. I mean, literally. And you do need to get out and you do need to scavenge a lot because there is a lot of crafting that you have to do in this game to upgrade your car so that you can make it towards the middle and end game in this.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And, dude, the 50th time I pulled up to the exact same model trailer that has the exact same layout on it and has the exact same... The exact same backpack.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
There's a backpack. Free fabric. There's a cooler. There's a chest. And maybe there's that science cabinet. And that's it. And, I mean, it really is... a little jarring to just go, dude, you couldn't make a few more models of this, or maybe like I can find something random from time to time. I mean, I think the most random thing I found was a paint color that I could paint on my car.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And the first time I found one, it was like a hallelujah moment. Cause I was like, it's something new. I found something new guys. But yeah, I mean, yeah, That part, again, is very repetitious and it gets really frustrating after a while.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Positive outlook while still having a critical eye on games from all corners of the development world. They try to interact with everybody in their awesome community and appreciate what they add to the space. See ya. I guess the show's all right. Thanks, Timmy. We think you're all right, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Um, the abductor is one of the very first anomalies that you come across. And it, I remember being terrified of this thing. So I was like, what the heck is this thing going to do? Is it going to, is it going to abduct me? Is it going to probe me? Like, what is this thing?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And then it's like, so eventually, I was not paying attention, and I'm in one of the four generically generated trailers in this game, and I see the abductor light go from green to red, and this plunger lunges out, sucks on my car, and it starts just dragging my car away. And of course, I go booking after it like crazy, and thankfully, it lets go after a little while. But it was like...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
That wasn't very nice. But then these suckers later on, because the game does progressively throw more anomalies and get harder, like harder as you play and you go deeper into the zone. And at one point I had zero time. I had to get out of this zone. It was collapsing on me. And a freaking abductor came along and latched onto my car and drug it halfway up a mountain.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And I was cussing that thing the whole time because I was just like, just let my, give me my car back. And I mean, I still made it out alive, but to its credit, that's what these anomalies are supposed to do. They're supposed to mess with you. They're supposed to cause havoc and chaos.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
But for me, the Abductor, I don't know if it's because it was the first one or just because it was always that moment of trying to chase it down and get the car back before it carried it too far away kind of thing. But I thought that was a neat touch.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Well, what's funny is you actually have an achievement that you got for that, Ryan, where it says travel more than 50 feet while airborne. Oh, nice. And I knew exactly what caused that for you to get that achievement too. That was me.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
I have to point out the one because this one really added to the mood of the game for me, but the mannequins, the crash test dummies. Those are creepy. Those things would randomly spawn anywhere. And so you'd come across a bunch of them in the road. And if you hit them, they're like, they got some kind of like explosive in them. They blow up, man. Oh, I know all about that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
We've done it, boys. You don't have to beg anymore. Honestly, that should just go to show you that we legitimately have the best gaming community I have ever seen. There is zero toxicity. There is zero console warring. There is zero putting people down because of the games they like. This is like a unicorn, man, in the gaming world. It really is.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Really weird is you could get out of your car, go to the back of your car and turn around. And there'd be one of those suckers right there staring at you. Cause they could just randomly pop up anywhere. And I remember getting jump scared so bad because I was just in the back of my car, putting some of my stuff down.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
I turn around and there's a freaking mannequin right there where it was not like two seconds ago, uh, And I was just like, oh my gosh, where did you come from? And so I will say kudos to them on that because it really added to that weird creepiness kind of vibe for this game too.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I mean, it's a car. You have a hood, two fenders, four doors, two quarter panels, two bumpers, headlights. I mean, all of these things are individual components on your car, plus your tires, plus your engine. Plus a rear hatch because it's a station wagon.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
He's like, well, you see. So yeah, you do have all these components. And it is funny. You can actually hit yourself in the head with the rear hatch, which I thought was a neat little touch on that as well. I'm with you, Paul. I thought this was one of the best parts of the game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
I did not think I would like it as much as I did, but tinkering with your car, taking care of my baby, upgrading it, making sure, hey, I can't go out on this run with doors that are damaged this bad. I better get these things fixed up. Oh, I unlock steel doors now instead of the crude panels? Yeah! Let's go! For me, a guy that loves progression...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
This was that carrot for me, like the, just the upgrade path on the car, the seeing this thing get tougher and stronger and able to drive further and faster. And that kind of stuff was really a big draw for me. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
That part might've been a little lame guys. I was hoping we wouldn't bring that up.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Oh, my goodness. They're right. It is driving me mad.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And I know we say it all the time, but it's just this thing where it's like... We have found the oasis of awesome gamers that are actually really cool to each other. And we want you to be a part of it. It's like, dude, we found it. Come join us.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
I will say, in regards to the car repairs, that is tedious. This game does do a good job of giving you ways to alleviate the tedium. Like you get like this repair machine where you can stick damaged parts in it. And after you come back from a run, there'll be completely fully like healed.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Um, you know, Ryan, Paul was picking on us because you and I always forgot to put the car in drive when you get in. And there's actually an achievement that says over 20 times, like try to drive with the car in park. And Paul was like, did you guys really do this? And we were like, yes, 20. Yes. Come on. What other game ever do you have to do that? I think I did it twice, and then I never forgot.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
But then you get this attachment to your car that's called the auto parker that will make it so that it says... And it makes it sound all technical. It goes like weight sensors and proximity sensors in the driver's seat will automatically put the car in park and drive when the driver gets in and out. This is truly the technology of the future.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
But the second I unlocked that, I was just like, yeah. And I'd just get out and I'd be like, I don't have to put it in drive and park anymore. I don't know that making something intentionally tedious and then giving you a way to alleviate that tedium is necessarily the best thing to do. No, it's not. But at the same time, they got me because I was so glad when I got those things.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Your screenshot, I literally thought you were having like a graphical glitch until you were like, no, Josh, that's 300 car panels laying on the ground. And then I lost it. I was like, oh my goodness. Yeah, thankfully I didn't run into that bug, but I just like to think that your dumpster really loved you, Paul.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
When Paul was asking us, are you guys finding blueprints? Yeah. And I went, finding them? Like, what do you mean finding them? And he was like, I'm like 12 hours in. I haven't found a single blueprint yet. And I was like, Paul, you make them at the fabrication station. And he was like, I haven't found any blueprints. And I'm like...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And I'm going like, Paul, it's just right there. Like, what are you talking about? So we had to live, Paul had to like live stream his feed so that I could be like, yeah. Yeah. And you were like, yeah, I know where this thing's at. And I'm like, Paul, like, look at the top. And you were like, what are you talking about? And I'm like, look at the top. There's like 10 tabs there.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And that's when you were like, no, there's not. And then you clicked one and you were like, it pulls into a whole nother menu. There's like eight different headlights you can make. And then there's like the door panel where there's like eight different types of doors you can make for your car. And you were just like, what the bleep? It was just like this.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And then I just remember you going like, I've been playing this game for 12 hours and I haven't gotten a single upgrade.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
It is. It took me a minute because I kind of skipped over what the Tinker Station did. And for me, it was every time I'd close my rear hatch, my horn would honk. But it took me, I don't know how many times it took me before. I was like, why the heck is the horn honking? I just thought that was normal. That did it to mine too. Yeah, because it's an old station wagon, right? It's a feature.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
But then I had one where every time I put my car into park, the passenger door would pop open. Yeah. You know, and like and so it's like these are the little things. And it's funny because you don't even notice them at first, you know, and then it is. I thought that was a neat touch. You can live with most of these quirks.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Like Paul said, some of them, they start to get pretty severe because the last thing you want is your doors popping open when you're in like a radiation storm or something like that. Um, but yeah, I thought that was a really neat idea and I liked the way they went about like trying you and you had to diagnose it. You could not fix it until you successfully diagnosed it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And then it was an easy fix at that point. Like you said, you just needed like a kid or something, you know, which are very common, but I did think that that was a neat thing for them to throw in there to just give more personality to your car.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Oh, I mean, for me, you have to remove the repetition. Honestly, that was the death knell for this game for me. I can't tolerate fluff to just fluff playtime. Like, honestly, you guys know I have, like, you know, gamer ADD. If I'm not constantly discovering new things or really invested in the story or something like that, I just want to move on to the next game at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And this was the fatal flaw with Pacific Drive, in my opinion, was it just was super repetitious. Some people like repetition. They like that familiarity. But I don't want to drive through zone E8 ever again in my life. I've driven through it 400 times at this point, and I'm only driving through it to get to zone E6 so that I can then get to zone F4 and so on and so forth. And it's like, to me...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Why? Like, why are you putting me through this? Why are you making me loot the exact same model of trailer for the umpteenth hundredth time so that I can find some plastic bits? You know, I mean, it just, that to me was the... drastic flaw in this game is stop the repetition. And look, I know it's considered like a survival crafting game in a way, and that's just part of it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
But we have played a dozen of those types of games and some of them do it very, very well. This one did it really, really poorly. So, you know, however you want to fix that. I mean, I don't want to launch in a huge tirade, but that's the one thing that I would change about Pacific Drive in a heartbeat.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
But the thing is, we talked about Dragon's Dogma, right, too, where they're saying, hey, there's not a lot of fast travel, but you'll find interesting things along the way. In Pacific Drive, there's no interesting things. That's the problem. Like, oh, there's an anomaly. I've seen that anomaly 300 times now. I just drive around it. No big whoop.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And so that's the biggest problem is that there's really not anything interesting that's happening on your 50th trip through that zone.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Like honestly, like anything, anything different while I'm out on foot instead of walking up these four stairs into this trailer and then looting this backpack and then walking back to my car and putting the stuff in my trunk. Like, I mean, there's a gajillion different ways that could go about adding some variety to the actual gameplay. But sadly, that part is just not there.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Okay. So we always, I mean, you guys have probably picked up some of our opinions on the game. We always like to give some other viewpoints. It is not our job to tell you how you should feel about this game. It is our job to let you know whether you think you might like it or not. And part of that is we'd like to give you some reviews from other people as well. So this first review is recommended.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
This person is 95 hours on record. I'm so sorry for this person.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
All right. And it says Pacific Drive is a fun niche style game. It does not really push any limits or cover new ground in gaming, but it is entertaining for a time. The best part of the game is exploration. I enjoy traversing the land and destroying my vehicle as I go place to place. Much of everything else about this game is average to bad, but not so bad that I would not recommend it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
The customization of the car is extremely limited and feels pointless and shallow. Even the parts with different purposes can be narrowed down to one being the best overall, rather than spending time with the tedious inventory system to change out for very minor benefits. Yeah. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So that was a recommended review. This next one is not recommended. 0.8 hours on record. And it says, it's probably just not for me, but the game feels way too complex. I know I didn't play much, but I've played tons of survival games and the crafting, looting, and basically every functionality feels way too deep and complex for me. And I think a lot of people will resonate with that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
I like the lore, the presentation, and the story, and just the general idea of the game, but it falls short by being a bit too complex.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
I, and I listen, I know there's going to be people that are like, man, you guys are old and dumb. You know, we've been gaming for a long time. I don't, The UI elements in this game, in a lot of the things like the fabricator or the detailing station or... I mean, you get a fax machine. I had no idea what the heck this fax machine did.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. All right. So this next one is recommended 28 hours on record. If you're expecting a truly open world driving and crafting game, you're going to be disappointed at its core. This is an extraction looter. It has a gameplay loop of visiting and revisiting a pool of maps with randomized placements, hazard modifiers and time limit, unless visiting a map with the no time limit modifier.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
There's a ton of quality of life options to change how stressful this experience may be, but fundamentally it's a mechanic. It's it. fundamentally, if it's a mechanic you don't like, then you're not going to have fun in this game. That is Paul 100%. Yep. Honestly, this is Escape from Tarkov, but with a car and not other people shooting you.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I mean, Michael would tend to get really excited about a lot, just about everything that you could talk to him about with games. But yeah, I mean, I still remember the first time we watched the trailer for this game, and it showed all of these anomalies that you would come across. The world has been distorted. There's this weird kind of eeriness to it, but then there's this weird, serene...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Well, this last review, I think, hits the nail on the head. It is not recommended. And it says it's so close. This person has 10 hours on record, by the way. And it says, it's so close to being fun. There's so many little things that bring the experience down. Requiring me to press and hold a button to open containers is probably my biggest complaint.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
It simply makes the game slower for no discernible reason. This is like baby's first video game type decision making from the developers. No one wants to wait to look in a container. No one wants exploration speed to be artificially hamstrung. Three people yelling at me across a radio about things that have nothing to do with me does not a story make.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Picking up audio recordings for exposition dumps is also not fun. I thought we figured this out when Fallout 76 tried to get away with it. Opening my backpack to read about things I see in the game is not a good way to convey information to the player. Inventory management, which is a huge part of the game, is also tedious and boring.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Not being able to save in any meaningful places is also a bad choice. It's a big time sink to commit to a run and the runs get longer and longer the more you play, which compounds the problem further. Again, I have to ask what the point of that decision is. It ends up feeling like an arbitrary restriction to make the game longer instead of improving the experience.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
We're not going to play guess the score or anything, but right now the actual Steam score is 81% for this game. It's a bit high.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
driving in your station wagon through the beautiful Pacific Northwest. And we were like, dude, what is this game? And then they kind of marketed it as like a survival game, but with a car and there's crafting and exploration. And there's this story to discover. And it really just touched on all of the things that we like to hear.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Wow. That's not something we hear from Paul very often.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
All right, Josh. I know this episode is going long. This is one of those things that we put a lot of games out there. We talk about a lot of games. We were all pretty excited about Pacific Drive.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
I was so excited. I tried so hard. None of us like slamming a game. It's just... there are times when a game has the potential to be great, but then is ruined by certain aspects. We've seen this time and time again for spoken was one of those, you know, hood outlaws and legends was another one.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
I mean, there's, there's any number of games where it's like, dude, there there's, you almost had something. It's why I really liked that one review where the guy said it's almost, it's so close to being good, but it's not.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, and so I am a little bit higher on it than you guys. I will say that for somebody like me, the repetition was really, really causing me issues towards the end. I don't like that aspect. There were parts that I really did enjoy. I did like driving. I felt like the game was very atmospheric, which I liked a lot.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
But it was just this game needed another year or maybe two to like cook in the oven and come up with some actually really good gameplay elements.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
It's kind of like it's like having a chocolate chip cookie where somebody forgot to put the chocolate chips in it. You know, it's like, it's a cookie, but there's just something critical missing about this game. And that's the way I feel about it too. Even though I'm higher than you guys, I am unfortunately still down on this game a little bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And then they just kind of disappeared for a little while until the demo came out for Steam Next Fest just recently. I mean, that came out like a month before they released the game. But yeah, I remember us seeing this trailer being very, very excited for the possibilities for this one.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
I'm going to put it at 83 for me, which is one above escape from Tarkov and the forest. Both are games that I felt were very tedious in a lot of ways. Um,
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
I it's just it is a shame because I do feel like this was a passion project from the developers and it's it there's a lot of polish to the game in some ways but you forgot like an ingredient man and and it just it really really tarnishes the game overall unfortunately for me as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
gradient was fun yeah i mean honestly i can i mean it is fun until you realize that it's not fun anymore but that happens fairly early on in the game and again if you're the kind of person that doesn't mind repetition and there are people out there like honestly i know like there's my like my wife is like she's like i'd work in a factory where i build the same thing every single day over and over she likes that you know
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
For me, that would drive me bananas, but I get that there's a comfort to be found there for some people. So if you're the kind of person that you don't mind doing the same thing over and over, you might find this game to be incredible. And if you found this podcast because you love Pacific Drive, And now you're mad at us because you're like, how can you slander my game?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
It's just that flavor is not there for everybody. And especially for us, it just didn't land.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
That's the whole game without any of the tedium.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Actually, I don't think the demo is still available now. Probably not.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
I do get why people could like it. Legitimately, I get that. It's very chill. It's very calm for the most part. It's very timid in how much the gameplay puts at you. But yeah, I don't know. I feel bad. It missed the mark for us.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
So... That was a good pun there too, Paul. So the nuts and bolts are... I can't let a good pun go by unnoticed. That was so funny. Yeah. The nuts and bolts of this game are you have this... You get put into this exclusion zone area. There's been this limb technology that's been discovered, but something has gone awry and it is distorting reality.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And so you are now in this place that you should not be. There are some scientists that apparently still live in this place that basically discover that you're there and they're trying to help you out. And you're just an innocent bystander who was delivering a package. And now you're in this crazy sci-fi world with things happening that you don't understand.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
And all you want to do is you just want to go home. And so that's like the basic premise of like the plot of the game. Gameplay wise, you are in your station wagon, which is your form of transportation, but oddly becomes like your companion in this game as well. You go out into these zones and you are basically foraging for supplies.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Sometimes you'll have a mission that one of these scientist people give you to say, hey, if you want to get out of here, you need to go to this place and activate these towers so that we can trace your signal or some sci-fi mumbo jumbo. You go out in those zones, you drive around, you get out of your car, you scavenge, and you activate, you get these big balls called anchor points.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
So you get these family shows and you you use those to kind of charge your car. And then that opens up a gateway that then teleports you back to the garage. And the garage is the area where you do all the upgrades to your car and like crafting and things like that. And so that, in a nutshell, is the gameplay loop.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I'd say it's like a roguelike light in that regard. Because when you unlock these zones in the maps, you keep those unlocked. And I mean, some of the maps are procedurally generated. But any progression you get remains. And you store all your stuff in the garage, and that you don't lose. But if you are on a drive... And I have scavenged a bunch of stuff and I died.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Like, yes, all that stuff is gone at that point. So it's not as brutal as roguelike would normally be where it's like, hey, your run is just completely over. Start all over again. I feel like there's a lot more of like the permanent progression systems than you would get in like a permanent roguelike. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Honestly, the reviews have been pouring in. So number one, kudos to all of you wonderful, amazing listeners out there for doing your part and supporting the show. I, every morning when I see a new review, I just, I get a little, a little pep in my step. There's a little joy in my heart, you know? And, uh, and then I share it with you guys and that makes us all smile. And then, you know what?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Not it, Ryan. fine i didn't catch it i have no idea i have no idea what happens in this game like i don't know if you guys knew this but i am a certified limb scientist okay so an unstable one maybe basically this lady oppie is the one is the scientist that discovered limb technology now i have no idea what limb stands for but you know let's just put that aside for now
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
This limb technology was supposed to change the world. And instead, what happened is it created this weird chaos and alternate reality and caused all of these issues that you see in the game. So when Paul talks about avoiding obstacles, we're not talking like, you know, construction signs in the road or cones or, you know, things like that. We're talking about like roads.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
entities that will hook onto your car and try to drag it away or weird razor blades that'll come up out of the ground and just go shooting off in the distance and things like that. Like there's, there's some strange stuff happening. And then you have these two guys, I'll be honest, I don't even remember their name, Tobias and something else or whatever that are kind of like Francis. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Pacific Drive - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And these are the guys that are like really fascinated with the fact that your car apparently is special and it's called a remnant. And this remnant is some kind of weird energy thing that is in this zone. The downside is that any time a remnant becomes attached to a human, it drives that human insane.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
All right, lay it on me. If this was action combat, you just click your buttons as fast as your little brain wants to click them, right? So, like, would that change your outlook on this? Is it literally just that it's the turn-based combat?
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
And so, Ryan, you started this, so I'm going to let you just start it off, buddy. So what do you got behind you, Josh, there?
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the video gamers podcast. It's expedition 33 launch week But is it also Oblivion remake launch week? Rumors are flying and we've got a lot to talk about on today's episode. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
I think that the active combat stuff is going to satisfy that little part that you hate.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
just sitting and waiting for your attack you know that's a fair i mean i honestly like i like to pick on you because you know i'm super excited but that is a very fair take dude like as much as i think that expedition 33 is going to be great for the people that are hoping it's going to be great i mean we can say this about any game but it's not going to be for everybody you know plain and simple i think that there's yeah if it was more of an action rpg i wouldn't be a
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
I will say I think I would not be as hyped, John. I'm with you on that. As cool as it looks, I think I'm in the mood. All right. So we'll leave that because I'm sure we're going to be deep diving Expedition 33 as well. So we'll just leave that one there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
We're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back and talk about another game that we have not talked about in a while that is also very high up my I'm excited for this game list. And that's a game called Ark Raiders. So we'll be right back to talk about that one. All right, guys, we're back now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Listen, we just got done talking about marathon and I may have gone on a small little rant. I think is tirade is what some people said about marathon and how it is not doing anything new. And I'm a little disappointed in that one. And then, you know, we're talking about this extraction shooter genre, right? This PV EVP extraction shooter genre is,
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
And here is this game called Ark Raiders that we have covered on the show a few times, but it's been a while. And what's funny is even John, who, you know, before joining us was a huge fan of the show, said, dude, I don't remember hearing about this game. And so he said, well, dude, check out some of the gameplay.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
I think arc Raiders looks fantastic, dude, where I think marathon does not look fantastic. I think arc Raiders does look fantastic. Ryan, we were talking a little bit before we started recording. You kind of said, Hey dude, this game kind of looks a little bit like the division. Yeah. I said, dude, I'm kind of hoping it's got a little bit of that outriders DNA in it. John said, cool.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
This game looks pretty good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
The horizon vibe.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
The box of crayons does look pretty unique.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
In the art style? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
It's more the gameplay. I don't know. Listen, as much as I trolled Marathon and I said, listen, Bungie, I expected more from you. I don't even know who's making Ark Raiders at this point. Oh, it's the studio that made the finals, which is a free-to-play shooter, which is actually a really good game. Yeah. I have higher hopes for arc Raiders than I do for marathon.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
And now they, to be fair, because I know there's people right now that are saying, wait a minute, they're kind of different games. And yes, I get it. Marathon is escaped from Tarkov. Arc Raiders is more division ask.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
I would say where, you know, maybe it's just like playing the division, but being in the dark zone the whole time, it is a PV EVP game, but I would not qualify them as being like the exact same in this case. But for me, I, What I have seen from arc Raiders and having a couple of buddies to jump into that game with vastly interests me more than marathon does.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
And having a couple of buddies to jump into marathon, I, maybe it's the sweaty aspect. I mean, you, you can lose your gear in both games, but, It's just I don't know what it is. Maybe it's the art style. Maybe I like the the horizon, you know, high end graphics with good lighting versus the plasticky crayon looking marathon. I don't know. I don't know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
But all I know is that if you put these two games side by side and said, Josh, pick one for some reason, I'm picking our graders, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
One was made by sixth graders. The other one was made by college graduates. You guys, get out of here, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
We'll we'll know a little bit more about our graders. The whole point of this conversation before, you know, like we do, we got way off the rails here is that the they are having a network, a public network play test at the end of April. So April 30th through May 4th, you can probably sign up to get in to do this technical test.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Now, anybody that's done a technical test, you know you're getting dropped, you're getting kicked, you're going to crash, you're going to do all this stuff. But you do get to get a snippet of the gameplay because they actually want you in there trying to play the game as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
I'm going to sign up for this and hope that I get in because I really want to see what this game feels like and what it's about. But if you're so inclined to give it a shot, that is kind of the takeaway here is that they are doing a public play test April 30th through May 4th. So... Yeah, Ark Raiders is up there for me, man. I just want another Outriders, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
And I know Outriders flies under the radar for a lot of people, but my goodness, dude, a good shooter, looter-type experience with your buddies is some of the most fun you can have in gaming, in my opinion. All right. Guys, let's move on to this one, because if I... This is a question to our listeners who are listening right now and to you both.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Name a developer that is held in the highest regards by gamers. Blizzard. Okay. You're off. You're out. I'm muting your microphone. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Larry and Studios CD Project Red after they fixed Cyberpunk, I think, is another one where they lost a lot of cred. Rockstar is up there, you know, can do not a whole lot of wrong. Naughty dog. The point being is that there's really not a lot that gamers go. I freaking love this developer, dude. I'm going to buy their games. I trust that they're going to make fun games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
And for me and a lot of gamers, Larian Studios, with their success with Baldur's Gate 3 and how they approach making games. I mean, if you remember when Baldur's Gate 3 came out, this is the game that the gaming industry went, yeah, don't expect this kind of game, guys. That's not good for gamers when people have this high of expectations for games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
And Larian went, why don't you just make a really good video game and then everybody will be happy and you'll make a ton of money. And then everybody else went, well, that's not realistic. And it's like, but why? It can't be done. So Larian... Bids farewell to Baldur's Gate 3. What a catchy headline there. Larian is saying goodbye. Goodbye, our beloved Baldur's Gate 3.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Take it from Kratos himself, guys, because we had a long conversation one day, okay? And he said, listen, Blades of Chaos, AoE damage. When you're fighting six enemies, you need those blades. When you're fighting one dude that needs to get hit really hard in the face, the Leviathan Axe is where it's at.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Goodbye to one of the best role-playing games ever made. Goodbye, all of you phenomenal characters and your turn-based combat that was amazing and a true adaptation of the Dungeons & Dragons rule set that made it into PC gaming. Goodbye!
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, just goodbye.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
How dare you? How dare you, John, in your crazy Baldur's Gate 3 take. But here's the thing. Larian, the gigantic patch 8 released, it came with 45 pages of patch notes. And Larian said, guys, this is the final patch. We are not making any additional content. We are not doing any further patching to this game that brings new content.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Now, if there's bugs that need to be fixed, they'll still take care of that. But the creation of content for Baldur's Gate 3 is over. And you kind of go, wait, what? Like, what? What do you mean?
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
John, you played Baldur's Gate 3? You didn't finish it? Just like I didn't finish it. But I think we have very different takes on the game. Because I think it's one of the best role-playing games ever made. And John is like, yeah, I played it because my friends were playing it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
It's a very dialogue heavy game. I have, you're not the only person that I've heard this complaint from John. So again, this is why we love games. Cause everybody is entitled to terrible opinions. I'm striking out. Yeah. Right. I mean, but here's the crazy thing to me, right? The reason that we wanted to talk about this story, number one, Larian, one of the best studios, in my opinion.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
So, you know, yes, there's a place for both, but if we're talking which ones are the better weapons, Blades of Chaos, hands down. You know what they didn't do in God of War 2018, Ryan?
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Divinity Original Sin 2, one of my favorite games. Then they follow it up with Baldur's Gate 3, which is fantastic. I mean, these guys have done no wrong in my eyes, and I love their mindset. Now, the fact, this is the crazy part, because every other game developer in the world would be going, We have our DLC 1 plan for 2026. We have DLC 2 plan for late 2026. We have DLC 3 plan for 2027.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
And we're going to charge $30 for each one because we know people will pay it because it's Baldur's Gate 3. Larian went... We're done. We made the game. The game is great. Everybody loves it. And now we want to go make something else because we want the freedom to not be tied down to this IP. We want the freedom to follow our passion. And Baldur's Gate 3 was our passion for many, many years.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
It's no longer our passion. I mean, they've said that. And so we're not going to keep working on it because we have something else we're super passionate about. And I freaking love that, dude. They will not get into this money at all costs mindset. They will not milk Baldur's Gate dry. They want to make a game that they want to make. And I freaking love them for it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
I will buy whatever game they make because this is what we want developers to be. We say it all the time. We don't want them just digging as deep into our pockets as they can. And Larian is actually doing it. They are actually saying, we made the game that we wanted to make. You all loved it. We love that for you. Now we're going to do what we want to do and make something different.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
And I could not support that more.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
They didn't have one of the most epic game moments that exists in any video game ever where Kratos is slowly uncovering the Blades of Chaos again, and the music lifts up, and you start just getting chill bumps on your arms because you're like, oh my gosh, he's doing it. And then he slowly starts wrapping them around his forearms again.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
All right. Let's talk about a developer that a lot of people love. John, you actually mentioned this. You mentioned Nintendo. Now, there's been a lot of Nintendo news, and we've had some strong opinions on Nintendo stuff lately. I mean, the Switch 2 has caused a lot of controversy in the gaming world with the price of the Switch 2 and the price of the games and all that stuff. So...
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
You know, this is something that we don't we don't we try not to beat a dead horse. But if there's valid news that needs to be talked about, there's valid news that needs to be talked about. And I think this one is another chance for me to kick this dead horse.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
They heard the gamer outcry. They listened to our episode where we talked about the hall effect and how they could have used that on their joy cons. But instead, Nintendo loves stick drift so that, you know, they want more stick drift so that you have to buy more joy cons. Guys, everybody knows this. And so what did Nintendo do? They said, guys, listen, we heard your episode.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
We love the video gamers podcast. We love what you guys are about. We know that you're honest gamers and you always speak the truth. And so we went to our executive board and we talked to them about it. And here's what we're going to do, guys. We're going to raise the price of the Joy-Cons, everybody.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
I know, I am too.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. I mean, don't get me wrong. The Leviathan Axe is freaking sweet, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
This is a serious question. If you were to make a product and sell a product, what is a good profit margin? So let's say that I make a glob, right? And I say, hey, this glob cost me $5 to make. What's a good margin for me to sell that glob at?
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Can we admit, and I'm going to leave this spoiler free for anybody that hasn't played Ragnarok yet, but also if you haven't played Ragnarok.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
My whole point was that Joy-Cons, Nintendo has not certified this, but there's been many what they call tear-down firms, and they say the cost to manufacture a Joy-Con is about $45. So Nintendo is charging, I'm assuming this is 100% profit, because they're selling them for $90. So, again, I don't know what the profit margin is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
I try to. But can we admit that the Leviathan Axe and the Blades of Chaos are better and cooler than the other weapon that you get in Ragnarok?
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
If only they fixed the problem, then that problem would go away.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
This makes sense.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
I thought that weapon was going to be so much cooler. That's funny.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
That was the worst feeling in the world.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
So wait a minute. Let's give Nintendo a chance, guys. But Switch came out eight years ago. You just mentioned something fantastic. When Xbox 360 released and the Red Ring of Death, they had to fix those.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
I hate it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Okay, that's fair.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
All right, we'll listen, everybody. Man, I freaking love just talking video games with you guys, man. This is so much fun. But we are out of time for this episode, so we're going to end it there. Everybody remember John said he'd eat his words. Ryan and I did not agree to that. Happily, with extra mustard. Listen, we hope that you all are diving into Expedition 33 tonight.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
We hope that you are enjoying the Oblivion remake if it actually did drop in between this episode being recorded and airing. Whatever the case, man, it's a good freaking time to be a gamer.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
I mean, that was just to see if everybody was paying attention. There we go. Because we've got some reviews to read. Good quality check, host. See, we don't. Yeah. You know, I'm an old dog, man. We always say we're not professionals. You can't teach me new tricks and then expect me to remember to read reviews at the end of the episode.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
I know, too. Hey, a promise is a promise. I remembered. I remembered. GG. GG, Ryan. All right. Well, I will start off with this review because it literally is titled Josh, Read This. This one comes in from Super Cool and I Love Pyro, and it says, "'Twas a time that this audio masterpiece, granted in its infancy, was known by a lesser name, the Multiplayer Gaming Podcast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Over the years, the hosts have changed and the format, Rip Twig, But it has grown tenfold in listeners and quality. It is now the top podcast for games, and I'm pretty sure most of the one-star reviews are accidental. The hosts are beautiful human beings and have one of the best communities ever in games. It is truly amazing. P.S. Please review the finals. Thank you for your time and attention.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Yours truly, Muz. Muz? Muz. Muz. I'm going to say Muz. Also, Twigs back, baby. What do you think we're doing right now?
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
And the finals, fantastic game, by the way.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
I think that's a different Pyro. There's a lot of Pyros in this world, apparently.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
John, would you kindly stop giving spoilers to iconic games? Sorry. We'll move on to movies. There's a few Bioshock fans out there that were like, I caught that, would you kindly, by the way. Yeah. Well, welcome into the Video Gamers Podcast, everybody, where this is what we do, man. We're friends. We argue over things like the Blades of Chaos versus the Leviathan Axe.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
All right, John, and then you've got one for us.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
But Arthur, we have a plan. Quandel's instincts are spot on by spotting a scoundrel. Yeah. All right. Now, now we're at the end of the episode, boys. But this is a good time to remind people to, if you haven't, please rate the show five stars. Please leave us a review. It really does help people. And we're going to continue to read these on the show.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
as a thank you to the people that take the time to do that. If you haven't done so already, make sure you follow us in your podcast app. Click that follow button, that plus button, so you get all of our episodes the day that they release. And if you are so inclined, you can help support this podcast. There is a link in the episode description where you can sign up to support the show.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
We're going to give you some awesome perks. We're going to give you a shout out on top of that, just as another way of saying thank you. That's going to do it for this one, everybody. This was a fun one, boys. So, yeah, this is always a good time. So thank you, everybody, for joining us. And until next time, happy gaming. To the gates of oblivion. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Two out of the three of us are smart. The other one's stupid. But no matter what, we love talking video games. And boy, do we have... John's like, wait, is it me? Is it... No, you voted with me, John, so you're the smart one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. Oh, boy. I love when these episodes just start off so stupid. We do have a lot of video game news to talk about today. This is a big week for gaming. Even if some of the rumors aren't true that something huge might drop this week. So we're going to get into it. But, you know, we do have some reviews to read.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
And joining me, he dumped Expedition 33 before they even went on a first date for his old crusty girlfriend who got some new makeup.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
We're going to do that at the end of the show for people because we really want to just jump right into the gaming news. But if you want to stick around for some pretty awesome reviews that have gotten left for us, make sure you hang out till the end. All right, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
You know, I thought about talking about expedition 33 because I mean, it does release the day this episode comes out, but you know what? We're a generous bunch around here. And we want to give you the spotlight, Ryan, so that you can talk about the game that I know you're more excited about. So why don't you go ahead and lend credence to the rumor mill. Now, I will say this one thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
We're recording this on Monday the 21st. So this news will have released by the time people are listening to this episode. But it's fun to kind of... Yes. Speculate a little bit and then listen on Thursday and go, my goodness, we're a bunch of idiots.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
So, all right, Ryan. Straight up, Expedition 33 comes out Thursday. Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Oblivion remake comes out Thursday. Which one are you loading up first?
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
John, you were kind of looking up in the air while Ryan was giggling and drooling over this possible announcement and release. What are your thoughts? Now, you've played Oblivion, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
All right, we're going to talk about it. And joining us, he's committed to Expedition 33, but sadly his ice cold take on Doom the Dark Ages counters any street cred he might have built up.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
So Morrowind was the last Elder Scrolls game that you played? Yeah, which I think was like... So you did not play Skyrim either? Nope.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
You should absolutely give it a try, dude. The reason I say that is Morrowind, brutally hard. No compass, no map. You didn't even have quest markers. You just had to remember that so-and-so, what town did that guy mention? He told me to talk to some dude. What building was it? The hotel, I think? And then you're wandering on this giant hotel looking for some random dude with no quest marker.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
You finally find him and you're like, is it you? And he's like, oh yeah, I've been waiting for you. Morrowind, insane issues with quality of life stuff. Oblivion was the true evolution of the Elder Scrolls games. And then Skyrim, I think, Took us took one step forward and also kind of a step back for a lot of people. But you talk about an immersive fantasy world, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
The Elder Scrolls games are fantastic. And if this one, like you said, is improves the quality of life stuff for oblivion, you know, the leveling system was really, you know, that's the big thing. There was just some quality of life stuff. You know, the graphics at this point are really dated.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
So if it's Unreal Engine 5 and we've got some nice spiffy graphics to go with it and just some other current upgrades. Oh, my goodness, dude. You are in for... I'm going to the arena, baby. I didn't realize that you hadn't played these. I'm going to the arena.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I mean, Oblivion, fantastic game. Yeah. Red Dead Redemption 2... One of the best. Quite possibly best video game ever made. So yeah, that one's not really that much of a choice. But so anyway, just to get to the rumors, we will know a lot more information literally tomorrow from the day that we're recording this. I think that they are not going to shadow drop it this week.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
So if we're making predictions, I think that they are going to announce it. And then I think they're going to say, hey, this is coming out like May 1st to give it a little bit of breathing room. and also to not conflict with Expedition 33.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Even though I know Expedition 33 is an indie title, the amount of hype behind that game, not just from us, but a lot of people that I have seen online is through the roof, and I think Bethesda's not stupid, and so I think they're going to want to say, let's split Expedition 33 and Doom the Dark Ages, and let's put it square at the start of May.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Okay, so here's the thinking, though, right? A lot of people have said that we're getting this remake to tide everybody over until the Elder Scrolls six Starfield. I don't want to say that Starfield was a flop because I wouldn't consider it a flop, but I don't think Starfield did for Bethesda what they were hoping Starfield would do for Bethesda.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
So I think this is their stopgap to say, listen, we need something to make fans happy. But I think in that, that they are going to do it in a smart way to say, hey, as cool and fun as it would be to shadow drop this, we don't want to shadow drop this a day or two before Expedition 33 comes out. Let's just split it. I mean, you're talking a week. I mean, legitimately, May 1st is only a week away.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
There's room for both. There's room for both. Yeah. Oh, man. All right. So listen, guys, we're just going to start off because we broke out into a heated debate before we actually started this episode. And we just said, you know what? We're saving it for the show. We're airing our dirty laundry like live to everybody else. Yep.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
And so that, to me, makes more sense if I was Bethesda. But then again, I'm not. So chances are this thing's already out and people can play it. And we'll see what happens. Fingers crossed.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
come on baby come on one time dealer i know there's so many i'm actually really excited i'm just more excited for expedition 33 personally but i will absolutely be diving into the oblivion remake dude like there are no qualms about that whatsoever and then we're gonna have to convince john but i don't think it would take very much because it's a fantastic game dude probably not all right i mean we've already been talking about expedition 33 guys like i said
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
It released today, the day that people are listening to this episode. I'm looking into my crystal ball. I'm at work right now. I'm supposedly supposed to be focusing on work, but I'm not. I am just imagining myself at home playing Expedition 33, saying hi to my wife and kids as I bolt through the door and just run to my computer to start loading this thing up. Yeah, hi-bye is basically it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
So I thought it would be fun. Because, listen, at this point, people understand how I feel about the game. They should understand how John feels about the game. And Ryan, they should understand your terrible take on this also. But I thought it would be fun to say, hey, let's put our money where our mouth is. Let's make a prediction for the score on this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
Like, we can do the Steam rating if you want to do it out of the 0 to 100. We can do Metacritic if you want to do that scale. But... I think that this game is going to be very, very well received. I am saying it's going to be a 93% on Steam, dude. I think it's going to be that good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Oblivion Remaster, Expedition 33 Predictions and Bye Bye Baldur's Gate 3 - Gaming Podcast
yeah you guys are right i don't think you realize ryan i don't think you realize because you're not a fan of this genre so much so i think this i've been describing it to people as a mix of like persona meets final fantasy yeah but like with just just super incredible art style and over the top like combat animations and graphics and stuff like that i think you're sleeping on this a little bit dude
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Apparently it does, Ryan. Like, come on. So Silksong was announced in 2019. It's been six years in development at this point. Now... I am of the mind that as much as I would love to play Silksong this year, take your time, which they obviously have been doing. So they've taken that advice. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
But one of the things with Hollow Knight was the environment, the music, just that feeling of the game. I mean, the combat and the movement were top notch. And it's one of those things where it's like... You can't risk any of that. If they rush this game out and the controls suck or that awesome music just isn't there, I think people are going to feel a little bit let down.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
This first one comes in from frog night 57 and it's titled Josh, please read best gaming. And it says, I have listened to all of the gaming podcasts and this one is the one that stuck out to me. It's amazing how they make new episodes weekly and I don't have to be annoyed because they stop the podcast. They talk about great games, love all the games you guys talk about.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Now, also, they did confirm that Silksong is actually going to be much larger than Hollow Knight, which is cool because it's like not only are we just making another game, but we're making it much larger than the original as well. So maybe that's why it's taken so long. Yeah. But they did also confirm that the game will come with over 100 different checkpoints and around 165 new enemies as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. On this episode of This Week in Gaming, we finally get an official update on Silksong. We're told to temper expectations for the next Battlefield release. Don't worry, they're tempered already. Genshin Impact gets in trouble and we'll dive a little bit into the Elon Musk gaming drama. But first, some introductions are in order.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
So this is the stuff that I like to hear because famously, you know, we troll like Borderlands, especially the Tiny Tina's Wonderland, where it just reused almost every asset in the game. And it was like, dude, come on. I can literally tell you guys put like zero effort into this. So I'm okay if they're actually going to mix it up a little bit. New enemies.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
We have a new main character by the name of Hornet and all that. So we'll see. They didn't say it's not coming out in 2025. They didn't say it is coming out in 2025. The one rumor that a lot of people are really kind of saying, hey, makes a lot of sense is especially with the announcement of the Switch 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
is that they are going to try to time up the release of Hollow Knight Silksong with the release of the Nintendo Switch 2 as like a premiere release title.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
I don't know that it means we have a timeline, but it makes a lot of sense to people. I mean, I will be playing it on my PC, but I get that if you are a Switch owner or planning on getting the Switch 2, having Silksong as a launch title available for the Switch 2 makes an
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
awful lot of sense for both the developer and nintendo in that regard so i i think you know when a rumor makes a lot of sense sometimes it's like okay there's there's a good strong chance of this too yeah i mean well like we were talking about with odyssey coming out with it or you know if silksong comes out you know that there's your kind of hit that's a launch title that's your launch title and and i mean
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Turned into annoyance. Yeah. I mean, that does happen. Let's be honest. And maybe that's why they're not trying to give these like periodic updates and string people long as they just say, Hey, silence is better than nothing. We could be that developer that gives you all these tweets or shows you 10 seconds of gameplay or a splash screen or here's a wallpaper for your desktop.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And it's like, dude, what good does this do me? Just give me the game, man. Give me the game. Yeah. So, all right, Ryan, we're going to take a quick break and then we are going to come back and talk about a canceled live service God of War. Womp womp.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
All right, we are back. And honestly, listen, during the break, I felt really gross. I had to wash my mouth, man. Live service, God of War.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
So we did get news that PlayStation came forward and they did confirm that they canceled two live service games that were in development. A lot of people made the jump that this came as a direct result of the failure of Concord and Sony getting gun shy now about, hey, we don't really want to do a lot of this live service stuff anymore.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Also, Ryan, you're great too.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
If it's all going to flop and the people are going to get mad at us. And I think part of that was we're going to ask these two games because we don't want to lose millions and millions of dollars on them. Now, one game was a kind of unannounced new IP by a company called or a studio called Bend Studio. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Some were hoping that they were going to make Days Gone 2, but Sony just came forward and said, nope, this game, whatever it is, is done. And then they also confirmed that a... I can't even say it right. You say it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
I mean, you know, it's okay to be second place, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
I got through it. Dude. Dude. Listen. There's a lot of things in life that just because you can doesn't mean you should. Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Now, when your name makes the title of the review, Ryan, that's, you know, I'll make sure that we don't ever read that one on the show. Yeah, that sounds about right. I'll never know. And then this next one comes in from this is actually the name best podcast to listen to. And it's titled Best Podcast Ever. I like this trend. You see a trend going on here? I do. I do.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Yes. No, here's the thing. There are certain franchises that you cannot turn into your little demonic money-making franchises. Yeah. You know, and God of War is one of those impeachable franchises. Number one made you billions of dollars. I'm sure because God of War 2018 like took the world by storm. God of War Ragnarok did very, very well. I mean, leave it alone.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
You can make money by just sales of a game. Yes. That's okay. And you made a lot of money by it. Do not adulterate and corrupt God of War.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
There's a certain sanctity in gaming, man, that should be upheld and taking beloved franchises and then trying to turn them into live service slop should be criminal. And so I'm hoping that PlayStation realize this. I don't think this was an altruistic move. I think this is we don't want to lose our shirt on another failed live service thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
So we're going to look at a couple that are going on right now and say, hey, we're probably done with this. Another thing that Sony canceled, if you remember, was The Last of Us multiplayer. Remember when they were developing the multiplayer Last of Us? And then they kind of came out and said, hey, you know, this isn't working out so well. That happened back in December of 2023.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And that was when we were like, that probably makes sense. Like, stop abusing these really popular, good franchises, man. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
So hopefully PlayStation has learned. Okay, I feel gross. So we're moving on. Yep, move on. Okay. Now, I will say this. For this next story, if you guys notice, we generally don't ever get caught up in internet drama, drama between streamers, drama between people. There's enough drama in the world. We're grown men with families. Nobody wants drama at this point in life. It doesn't serve a purpose.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
So it's very rare that we ever actually cover any of these stories. But this one was just a little too good... Of like a drama. And then we did actually get some answers from it as well. And so anybody that was paying attention to social media probably saw at least something where people were talking about Elon Musk. If you don't know who Elon Musk is, you're living under a rock, number one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
But number two... Elon Musk is a gamer. He has been a gamer for a very long time. He streams fairly regularly. He loves video games. He's come out and said it. He supports them. He's friends with a lot of streamers and stuff like that. So Elon Musk is a gamer. But he's also Elon Musk, right? And so he's in the eye of the public. He's kind of a weird dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
We don't get into politics on this podcast. So all of this is apart from what you think of the man or political or any of that stuff. We are addressing the gamer. Okay. And so... You know, Elon is famously a very, very big fan of Diablo and recently Diablo 4. He has posted videos of him completing these challenge runs on Diablo 4. He's rated as like in the top 10 of Diablo 4 players in the world.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And this one says, I have been looking for a good podcast to listen to while practicing basketball or getting destroyed in Eldon Ring. The amount of episodes are amazing. I will never run out. I have found a lot of good games from this podcast, like the Ghost of Tsushima, which is my second favorite game after Elden Ring.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
He's posted videos of that, whatever, you know, and then it's like, wow, okay, well, how does this guy have time to do all this, you know, and run all these companies and everything? Well, then Path of Exile 2 came out. Famously, very big fan of that game. Ryan, you're a stupid jerk for not even trying it. But Path of Exile 2 came out. And Elon, like a normal person, went, oh, you know what?
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
I love Diablo. Let me try this Path of Exile game. Because any normal person would do that. You know, if Diablo was like one of their favorite games and then this other game came out that it's like, yo, this game's way better than Diablo.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
All right. Now I feel like I'm just a drug dealer trying to push something on you, man. Why are you peddling this to me, man? Yeah. All right. All right. Anyway, Path of Exile 2 comes out. Elon starts playing it. And then all of a sudden, a month or two or however long goes by before this game has been out in early access a little bit. And Elon starts posting these hardcore runs of Path of Exile.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And people are like, whoa. Like, dude, how does this guy find time to do this? And then he streams. He goes live. He starts streaming a playthrough of Path of Exile 2. And something doesn't quite jive with people that have played the game. And this is where the drama starts, okay? People said, hey, here's a top level, hardcore Path of Exile 2 guy. We're watching him play live.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
He's kind of explaining a lot of things. He's chatting with people. But then people started to notice. He doesn't quite play the game the way that somebody has been playing the game would. He's running past valuable items. He's having a hard time figuring out how to open the mini map. He's saying things that he doesn't quite know what he sounds like he's talking about.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
There was just some spidey sense tingling going on. Oh, yeah. And then this started the internet into a tizzy, into an uproar. And the rumor became that Elon doesn't actually play these games, that he pays people to play these games for him. And he's been faking all of this the whole time. Yeah. And the Internet, like the Internet does, lost their minds and it became this big conspiracy theory.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And then Asmongold, very famous streamer, millions of followers kind of stepped in and said, dude, it's obvious you don't play this game. Elon kind of fired back and said, well, it's obvious you don't come up with your own content, blah, blah, blah. And it kind of became a little bit of a war.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Also, I don't know if you guys remember talking about this, but in the best game from each century, I think it was decade, but I have played Hero's Quest. Tributes to you, Paul. Dude, Heroes Quest was my favorite game as a kid growing up until I discovered the joys of EverQuest, that is. But man, Heroes Quest was the game that told me or taught me that I love RPGs. I like combat in a game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
thankfully it didn't go too far um but what we got out of all of this because there was a lot of conjecture from people that said no no Elon plays these games we've seen his Diablo it's it's him like you can literally watch him do this uh he famously was a top-notch Quake player back in the day uh was actually ranked in the the like the top leaderboards for Quake and stuff like that so
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
His credentials as a gamer were not really in question. It was just, is this you actually playing this game? Yeah. And we finally got an answer because there were some texts between Elon and a guy that he is either buddies with or a streamer with or something like that, that published these text messages that was very direct and said, hey...
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Regarding your Path of Exile 2, was it your intention to take full credit for leveling your hardcore characters because it doesn't look like that's you? And Elon said, no, I never claimed that it was me at that point that had achieved that. And so he came out and said it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
He did kind of clarify it and he said, hey, the top accounts in Diablo and Path of Exile require multiple people playing the account. to win this race and kind of be ranked in the leaderboards. And that's kind of a normal thing is account sharing. He called it where, you know, you kind of need to just grind, man. Yeah. And one person can only grind so much.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And if you want to be at the top, you might have more than one person grinding on your account at that point. So this kind of became clear and people got their answers. All right, so let me ask you, Ryan. That's kind of the answer. He did say, hey, I don't always play my own account. When you see me streaming, it is 100% me streaming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
He said, that is very true, but maybe I didn't level this guy all the way up. Yeah. You know, so let me ask you if what do you think of that? Like, if somebody is wanting to be top ranked and this is a common thing in the industry to do account sharing and have multiple people leveling this character, is that lame? Does it make sense? Like, what are you like? What do you think on this?
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I agree. I think because it's his history with Diablo and his standing on Diablo, which is proven. He is a top-ranked Diablo player. I think with Path of Exile, he probably went, I want to try this. Let me see what the endgame is like. I'm not defending the actions by any means, but I'm saying I can understand from a gamer point of view. This kind of gets more into that...
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
If you have the means and you want to experience a game, is it lame or acceptable to purchase, because these things happen, a high level account? You know, if I'm playing an MMO, right? And it's like, dude, I don't have 400 hours to grind to level 60, but I really would kind of like to see what the end game and rating is like. I'm just going to buy this account that's for sale. I'll log in.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And yeah, what a great game, man. There's like four people out there right now that are going like, oh, Heroes Quest mentioned?
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
It'll save me all that time. And then I get to experience the part of the game that I want to. I know my brain has always gone, well, that's lame. Just play the game, man. Like some of the fun is the adventure and the journey along the way, not just the end game stuff. But at the same time, like Throne and Liberty, for instance, just played Throne and Liberty a good bit when it came out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And I found myself 100% just grinding so that I could do the end game raids because that was the content that I wanted to play. That was the funnest content in my mind. And all this stupid leveling and the story that didn't make sense and I could care less about was just keeping me from that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, you know, and so I can I can understand the mindset now if Elon just went, look, I want to see what the path of exile to is. Sure. Maybe I wasn't fully up front with people. But when people ask me, I did come clean as well, you know, and so I don't know. That's a tough one. People can make their own decisions on that one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
But it was kind of a little bit of a fun Internet drama that happened that we did get a actual definitive answer on. And so we thought it'd be a fun little story to cover. Ryan, what do you think? Is it okay to buy an account if you want to just jump to endgame?
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
The only other point that I'll make and something that this podcast has always said is let people play video games the way they want to play video games. Some people like the very chill games. Some people like the hardcore games. Some people like multiplayer only, single player only, whatever. If you want to buy an account to experience the end game on a game, that's your choice.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Old Sierra game, man. Dude, Sierra had the lockdown.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
I think we can have opinions on it to say, hey, I think that's kind of lame. Play the game. They made the game with a start and they made the game with an end game. You know, have fun. So I think it's OK to have an opinion on that. I don't think it's OK to slander people and make them feel bad because they have a gaming preference.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
You know, and even with Elon, even with somebody like that, if it's his preference as a gamer to experience the end game and he has the means to buy an account or pay somebody to get him to that point. You can say what you want, but slandering somebody for their gaming choices is not something that we support.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
All right. One other story here. Genshin Impact. Man, one of the most popular games out there. I don't even know what the player base is, but Genshin is huge, man. Well, Genshin got themselves in a little bit of trouble with the Federal Trade Commission in the US because they got investigated. They got slapped with a $20 million fine because the FTC...
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
determined that they had predatory practices with how they handle their loot boxes for kids. And they got hit with a $20 million fine and ordered to stop selling loot boxes to children. Oh my gosh. I mean, now... Anybody that has played... And I'm just going to classify this as a gotcha game. I think that's the right term for an old man like myself. But my daughter loves Genshin Impact.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
She's tried Honkai Star Rail. There's another one, Wuthering Waves. I've heard of all these games. I'm vaguely familiar with them. My daughter loves Genshin. She plays it all the time. And she's come to me and she said, Dad, can I buy the crystals or the battle pass or whatever? Because there's some five-star hero I'm hoping to get. And I kind of go...
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Not really a big fan of spending money on digital cosmetics, especially for a kid, but it's your money. Okay. You know, that kind of thing. Ryan, we know you love you. Your luxury battle passes at this point. It was one time. One time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, okay. So Genshin ain't going anywhere. It's a massive game. It's pulling in buku bucks, but they got in trouble, okay? And they said that the kind of thing was that Genshin deceived children, teens, and other players into spending hundreds of dollars on prizes they stood little chance of winning.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
It really was. We just had a new member join our Discord server. We were chatting some Leisure Suit Larry, which was another hilarious adults only Sierra type game. But man, yeah, they were they were at the height of gaming for I think I want to say that was like late 80s, early 90s, somewhere around there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Companies that deploy these dark pattern tactics will be held accountable if they deceive players, particularly kids and teens, about the true cost of in-game transactions. Part of the thing here was that It wasn't really clear when you were buying something or spending money on something or something like that. And this is something that they are cracking down on in video games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
If you've ever gone to buy something off of Amazon and it defaults to the subscribe and save option... right? Cause that's happened. Right. You know, and that's kind of the same thing where it's like, you didn't realize that it was on this option. You meant to purchase that option, but it's too late because you know, online transaction completed, you bought a loot box, you can't refund it too bad.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
You better open up that loot box and hope for the best. And I, so I think that's kind of this case that happened. Um, It brings up the kind of larger debate. Like, are loot boxes a thing of the past? Are they gambling? Are they predatory? And are battle passes the safer option for developers at this point?
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
I think the main thing with a battle pass is you know what your rewards are. You can see them ahead of time. You get them by playing the game. There is not a random chance involved. And with loot boxes, that random chance is that that's the kicker. That's why so many developers are moving away from them. They're getting in trouble for, you know, gambling with kids basically. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And I do think we will see where loot boxes are just a thing of the past. I do think battle passes are kind of the future for monetization, microtransactions, that kind of thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
So I don't know everything about this kind of fine and legal thing, but I will say that as a parent and as a gamer, I am a fan of being a little bit more clear with if you're going to give us money for something inside our game, we are going to be a little bit more transparent about what you are going to get at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And so I think that's a good thing, especially for kids, because otherwise it really is just kind of gambling, man. Yeah, exactly. I tell my kids all the time, they are so into Pokemon cards right now, man. It's ridiculous. And I tell them, I said, dude, Pokemon is just gambling for kids. And I'm not trying to slander Pokemon, but it really is, dude. It is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And I have seen the crushing disappointment in my own kids where they spend money on packs or a lot of money on packs and then they get diddly squat and then they're so sad, disappointed. And as a parent, I hate that, you know, but at the same time, my daughter just bought some packs the other day and she pulled like an $80 card. It's the second best card in the set. And she'd lost her mind.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And that like joy was like kind of cool to see too. But that joy is much like rarer than the disappointment from that. And so I, as a parent, it's like, I, I don't like teaching kids to gamble.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
All right, Ryan, we've got some news stories to talk about, man. Let's start with the first one. So, you know, the reason we bring Battlefield up on this show is you and I were absolute just diehard fans of the Battlefield franchise. I know we have talked about Battlefield many a time. And unfortunately, it's usually with like a little bit of like, Almost disdain for Battlefield now. Is that fair?
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. All right. Well, we've gone long on this episode, but thank you, everybody, for joining us, getting caught up on your gaming news. If you enjoyed this episode and you haven't done so already, please leave us a review. Rate us five stars in your podcast app. Look, we have, I mean, legitimately multiple people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
I want to say it's like four to six people per day that are joining our Discord server, if not more. I'm watching. Every single person that comes in there goes, whoa, this place is awesome. These are actual gamers talking video games, giving game recommendations, talking about the latest news, joining up and playing games together as well. So don't miss out on that. You don't have to chat.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
We love our lurkers as well. But just come be a part of it, if nothing else.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
I've never seen our lurkers. I know. Yeah. But come in, chat with other gamers. It's family friendly. It's non-toxic community. Nobody's going to make fun of you for your choices or any of that stuff. It really is an awesome place.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And if you've been listening a while, if you're at the gym and you're having a grand old time and we've made doing your sets a little bit easier or your commute a little bit better and you think, you know what, man? I've really been consuming a lot of content from these fine, fine, handsome gentlemen. Maybe I should think about giving back just a little bit on that. You can do that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
We will not stop you from doing that. If you are of the mind and the kind heart to head over to MultiplayerSquad.com and sign up to support this podcast, you can do it for as little as $5 a month. There definitely are some better options out there if you are so inclined. But if nothing else, head over there and check out those options if you've been enjoying this podcast as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
So that's it for this episode. We'll be back on Monday with a fun episode, Ryan. I'm not going to tease it yet, but I'm excited for that one. And until next time, happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Now, what is the, like, when you think Battlefield real quick, like, what's the number one Battlefield to you that jumps to mind? Like, your favorite.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, for me, Battlefield 2 is hands down the greatest Battlefield in existence, in my opinion. Battlefield 4, I will say I'm with you. I think that's my second favorite. Like I played a lot of Battlefield 4. I don't even know if I played Battlefield 3. I might have just skipped right over that one. But I do remember thinking like 4 is like, OK, OK, this is this is good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
It has a few issues, but this is good. And then it just fell apart, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
I know there's people that love battlefield five and then it like rolled over like an odometer where it was like back to battlefield one after that. And it's like, I tried that one too. Could not get into those, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
There's been some, there's like bad company, which is really like a lot of people love bad company. I don't remember hard line. I didn't play that one at all.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
So all that to say is that we approach Battlefield as diehard fans of the series. I mean, I can't tell you how much time both of us have put into this series. Battlefield 2042, if you look at our leaderboard, it's way down there. It was a massive disappointment for us.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
I am your host, Josh. And joining me, he hates loot boxes, but loves battle passes. And you can hear him chanting to himself, I will not get hyped for the next battlefield. I will not get hyped for the next battlefield.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And so when we get Battlefield news, I think there's a small part of our brains that still kind of tingle just a little bit, you know, that kind of go like, I'm not dead yet. And we're like, shut up, go be dead.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. So the news that we got is a former DICE developer kind of came forward and cautioned fans about to, quote, temper their expectations for the upcoming Battlefield title as it will have a different philosophy and a new development team. So the thing here is that this person said, hey, the people that are making Battlefield now they're all, it's like 98% new people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
None of these people, whatever that 2% is like, none of these people have been around since the glory days of battlefield. They don't know what they're talking about. They don't know what they're doing, you know? So don't expect the battlefield that you're used to.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
I'm not leaving. I'm not leaving. I'm staying here. Oh, man. And so, of course, the news on this is that because it's an all-new team and because EA is the driving force on this next battlefield, we're just going to call it Battlefield 6 for right now, is... In classic EA fashion, this dev is basically saying, hey, this thing's going to be monetized to the extreme.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
It's going to be marketed as a live service game from the get-go. And just temper your expectations on this. This is not going to be the battlefield that people are used to and likely the battlefield that people want. Now, they didn't say that that means it's going to be bad, right? They just said it's going to look very different than what a lot of people expect.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I didn't ask for the rice and salsa in the little slots on the side of the container. I just want a big quesadilla, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And they know, though, too. They look at you knowingly like, yeah, those are the good old days. So I will say this. The one thing that the guy mentioned, too, is that they were looking into like a sort of AI commander for the series. Now, I will say that one of my favorite parts, and I can't remember if you could do this in Battlefield 4, was being the commander, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Man. Well, yeah, we're going to get into that. And it's funny because I think you and I are on the exact same page. It's to the point where Battlefield is dead to me until it comes out and we hear good things about it. But we'll get into that story in just a minute. Ryan, we've got some more reviews that we need to catch up on. Yes. If...
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Right. Well, no, that's your squad leader. The commander was the guy that could see the whole map from overhead and could see which points and would actually direct you and they could drop supply drops and stuff like that. I feel like the commander was a thing in Battlefield 4. I know it was a thing in Battlefield 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And it was usually like if more than one person wanted to play commander, the highest ranked person...
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
got the the role which i thought was cool too so you know they they mentioned things like uh different seasons of battle pass of war zone like mode uh def you know definitely that it's going to be a live service game and stuff like that there's rumor that it will launch in 2025 i don't know that i believe that either i mean honestly as much as ea cares about money i think ea
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
They care more about money than they do about this game being what fans want. But with the disaster that was 2042, I do feel like they're going to be a little bit more cautious on this one. One would hope. Is that being hopeful?
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
They're going to soak this franchise for everything they can, unfortunately.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Dude, there is legitimately a world where companies like EA stop advertising that it's their game. And they start just marketing it. They just go like, hey, we don't know who's publishing this, but check out this game from this new device.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And it's like, oh, we're we're we're smart. We'll figure out that was. But I mean, yeah, the press in the the I think the trust is just broken on Battlefield, to be honest. And I don't know that they can get it back. I would love for them to because I know you and I would both love a really good Battlefield game to play.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
The only other thing I'll say on this is before we move on to the next story is this is an ex-employee. So take a little bit of this with a grain of salt because this guy might be just a little bit bitter and is trying to post this in a bad light. I mean, not that that surprises anybody. And so it does seem rather believable, unfortunately, but... I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
Wait and see, unfortunately. Yeah, that one's tough. So, all right, Ryan. On a better kind of news angle, Team Cherry. And everybody's going, who the heck is Team Cherry? Team Cherry is the team that brought us Hollow Knight, people. Yes. Yes. And who will eventually someday during this century bring us Silksong. But, hey, listen. Somebody posted a picture of a chocolate cake to their timeline.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
You are a fan of this podcast and you have not taken the two seconds to rate us five stars in your podcast app. Please take a second to do that. You can do that on Spotify. It's a five-star rating on Apple. You can rate us five stars, but you can also write us a review. And if you do that, there's a good chance we're going to read them on the show. I got two of them today. Oh yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
On social media. And as gamers do, gamers lost their minds. Because I think it was one of the developers for this. I can't remember who the guy was. But I remember seeing this. It was making waves on social media. And it was like, have you guys seen the cake? And we're like, oh, I've been playing Marvel Rivals. I've seen the cake. And they're like, no, not that cake. It's a chocolate cake.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
And I was like, what are you talking about? They're like, dude, one of the devs from Silksong or somebody related to Silksong just posted a mysterious chocolate cake. well, everybody knows the cake is a lie.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
But what if the cake wasn't a lie and the cake came on a day that had something to do with like when Silksong went into development or was announced or I don't know, dude, gamers do some mad digging, man. Like, so this just, this rumor just kind of started spreading like crazy through social media. And everybody said, we're about to get a Silksong update where it's coming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
This guy might just really like cake. He might have just been eating some really delicious chocolate cake. It was like, I'm going to post a cake.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
To my Instagram. So, okay. So... Internet rumor mill aside, because of this hype, somebody reached out to one of the developers and said, dude, I know you're not going to give us anything on this. I know that you guys don't give us updates and stuff, but please just tell me you guys are developing this game still.
Video Gamers Podcast
Silksong DOES Exist, Genshin Impact Troubles and Gaming Drama - Gaming Podcast
That's it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Blunder, Switch 2 Smackdown and Gamers Gonna Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, exactly.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Blunder, Switch 2 Smackdown and Gamers Gonna Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Okay, that's fair. I like consoles.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Blunder, Switch 2 Smackdown and Gamers Gonna Gamer - Gaming Podcast
What are you doing?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Blunder, Switch 2 Smackdown and Gamers Gonna Gamer - Gaming Podcast
I got it. I'm a fighting, scrapping, Nintendo-loving machine. You got nothing on me, Josh. I got you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Blunder, Switch 2 Smackdown and Gamers Gonna Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Get your hands out of my pockets, Nintendo. Quit trying to rob me blind. If I bought it, it's mine.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Blunder, Switch 2 Smackdown and Gamers Gonna Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Exactly. I would have been like, Nintendo!
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Blunder, Switch 2 Smackdown and Gamers Gonna Gamer - Gaming Podcast
I'm like, I'm like, first of all, corporate sympathizer company, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Oh man, we're excited. So number one, thank you both so much for giving your valuable time and hopping on this podcast with a couple of doofuses like Ryan and I, we are really, really excited to have you guys here with us. Um, and man, this is good. This is going to be a fun episode.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
That's awesome. Also, zero bitterness detected for Christine getting this job and just kind of falling into it.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Some games and studios are so iconic we remember our first game that they ever made or that we played by them. We remember the times with friends we had playing together in the excitement of a new major release. We've had the joy of talking with several indie devs and studios, but what about the big boys in the industry?
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
So I really kind of want to just start off by, you know, introducing you guys a little bit or letting you kind of introduce yourselves a little bit. So, Christine, you are the director of the Bungie Foundation and you've been with Bungie for quite a while now. Is that right?
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
I love that because like, I mean, Jared is an example of, I mean, literally right in front of us of saying like, hey, you know, I had a finance background. I, you know, you jumped in with the Bungie Foundation, which we are absolutely going to talk more about here in just a little bit, but.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
I think a lot of times as gamers, we tend to think of like, I think it's easier to relate to like a small studio, where it's like, hey, there's eight guys that are working on this. So all eight of those people have to be very, very talented at what they do. And it also helps if you understand the business side of it.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
You know, but for, for some of the larger studios, I mean, there are a much wider range of talents that are needed in that regard. So just because you don't know how to code or you're not an artist doesn't mean that there's not a spot for you if you are talented and you are passionate.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
And I mean, Jared, you know, just to kind of point to you again, taking that chance and saying, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to go work for the Bungie foundation and, And get my foot in the door and start to meet these people and work hard and all that can absolutely lead you to something else that, you know, you never know where your path is going to go.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
You just got to take that first step, so to speak.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Like that's all we could have. Yeah. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
That really is. Yeah. That is awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
That is amazing. I mean, how many people can get a job at Bungie right out of college? Right. And then, you know, you knew you were onto a good thing if you've been doing it this long though, too, at the same time.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
evolve and move on yeah people are the greatest resource a company can have legitimately and when you see a company value that and treat them well i mean that goes a very long way to keeping incredible talent you know and success for the company as well so okay so We're gamers. We're a gaming podcast. We can't not talk a little bit about Halo and destiny.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
So Jared, this, this little part might be a little bit more geared towards you, but Christine, if you have any comments at all, company anecdotes, I can, I mean, please feel free to jump in here. If, uh, you know, if, if you have something to say on this, but Jared, as, as a gamer, uh, Do you have a favorite moment or moments from Halo or Destiny slash Destiny two that stand out to you?
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
And then Jared, you worked with Christine at the Bungie foundation for a little while. Um, and then you are currently a senior producer for Bungie studios. Is that correct?
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
I'm always a hunter, fast, stealthy, agile.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Give me a rogue any day of the week. I won't sneak up on people.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
that's good uh for me the answer is halo 3 the warthog run at the end of halo 3 is is honestly it's one of those legendary gaming moments that just sticks with me forever i still remember being out of buddy's house going through that and all of us just being like what is happening like this is the greatest moment ever
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
and then failing a bunch because i drove off the side until we got there so absolutely so jared has has moving into a a producer role change the way that you look at gaming at all like now that you're kind of taking part in the development of games and you kind of see behind the curtain a little bit does that change the way you look at games or how you game
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
You know what goes into it, so I think being able to see it, you can kind of go, whoa, that took a lot of work.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
So that's an interesting kind of like thought process there because gamers are super opinionated. I mean, you know. No, they're not. I know it's hard to believe.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Oh, we do. It's all rainbows and hugs. Especially in those competitive games like Apex. You shake your hand. Good job, bro.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
So, I mean, how do you balance that? I mean, how do you balance the fact that everybody has an opinion on the way that something should be? And, you know, you guys are current and we're not going to talk about it because I know you can't. But you guys are currently in, you know, developing Marathon, which we are super excited about. We can't wait to hear more about.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
But you mentioned, you know, I'm sure there's internal play testing and you guys have to try things out and say, OK, yeah, this is working. This isn't working. But how do you balance the opinion of a gamer, because we all have them and we all think that people should do this, this, and that. How do you balance that towards what the vision of the game is?
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
She has not removed your photo from the bungee foundation website yet. So you're still on good enough. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Because before you know it, you start listening to too much feedback, you've lost your vision now.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
I'll just change the title to like consultant advisory committee. Just one of one. There you go.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
We'll figure it out. But she's slowly like fading the photo out a little bit every day. Like your replacement, just like a fade over.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
I love it. It's just tough. I can't imagine... Honestly, I can't imagine being in that position to kind of say we have to listen to people, but at the same time, we can't cater to every person out there and what they think a game should be or have or something like that. And it's not... it's not a position that I envy somebody to have, but it's also super important at the same time.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
That's great.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
So like you said, shout out to the unsung heroes of the community team. Yeah. Cause I'm sure they deserve it.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
And so Jared, you have, you have been a fan of games for a long time. Yes. But Christine, you are not much of a gamer. Is that true?
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
I don't know. We hear you. All right. So Ryan and I had, cause we, I really want to move on to talking about the bungee foundation here, but we, we, we have a question that already caused an argument between Ryan and myself before we started recording.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
And so we're going to ask you the question and Jared, you might be a little bit more suited to answer this, but Christine, if you have an answer, I would love to hear it. What is the best vehicle in Halo? I love the sigh already.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
So wise.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
All right. And not to put you both on the spot here. And Christine, I don't know how familiar you are with Destiny lore and stuff like that. I've played a little bit of Destiny, but not a whole lot. Not nearly what Ryan and I feel like Jared has played. But Jared, can you explain what Vex Milk is? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Oh, spicy ramen. Now we're talking. Oh my goodness. Okay. We got to be stupid occasionally guys. All right. So with that, let's transition to talking a little bit about the Bungie Foundation, because this is amazing. Like, honestly, this is something that is incredible to us. I mean, it's very near and dear to our hearts. But Christine, you know.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
You have been with them your entire career, basically, with the Bungie Foundation and Gaming for Good. For the listeners, can you explain what it is that the primary mission of the Bungie Foundation is?
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
That's my wife. My wife likes a very specific type of game. Um, she, you know, like Mario games for instance, right? She loves those until she gets to the fire level and then she just quits. She's like, this is too stressful. I don't want this in my life. And then she's just out at that point. So, well, Hey, we don't judge around these parts. So you're, you're in good company.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
I love that. We just talked to Make-A-Wish. We actually had them on the show recently as well and absolutely just love. We're very passionate about just giving back. There's something oddly special about the gaming community because we're a very divided bunch a lot of times, but if you can get gamers to come together, Crazy things can happen.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Legitimately, I don't think there is. It takes something to get them to all come together instead of just fighting and calling each other names.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
It's such a good escapism for so many people. I mean, everybody plays games for different motivations, whether it's competition or it's relaxation or escapism. And it's one of those things like with our podcast, like we don't get into politics.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
We keep it family friendly so that everybody can listen and things like that, because we understand that for a lot of people, they just want an hour to just not think about the hardships that are going on. and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
And it's such a necessary thing to have for people, but it's getting harder and harder to like find that for a lot of people as well, which is one reason that we love gaming, you know, and we love like the fact that the Bungie Foundation exists and that you have dedicated 17 years of your life to this, you know, and Jared, you know, left you after three years, but he dedicated three years to it.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
So we do have a question for you, though, Christine, since since you do work, you know, for the Bungie Foundation and you are familiar with Bungie Games and we figured this would be a good question for you. So you have to get dropped into either the world of Halo or the world of Destiny. Which one are you picking and why?
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
So I just, I got to pick on you, Jared, I'm so sorry.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Like he can run as far as he can, but he's just going to bounce back in. So Christy, can you, can you give us like, what is the day in a life of being the director? Like, I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a title, but for, for a lot of gamers, like, you know, it's like, oh, cool. Okay. You had that up, but like, can you give us like a brief synopsis of like what a day is like for you?
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
That is awesome. She does a lot of work.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
And then he's just left you to go help make games.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
What's it like working at a AAA studio and making some of the most iconic games of the last 30 years? Well, today, we have the immense honor to do just that. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh, and joining me, he's got more hours in Destiny than any other game he's played, so he may be geeking out just a tiny bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
But in this case, like it really is of some sort when really there's more of a benefit than a cost there as well. So it's funny because, I mean, we talked about like gamers coming together. I mean, I think from a gaming standpoint recently, you know, there was hell divers too, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Like every gamer in the world was saluting each other and you know, we were all coming together to defend this virtual planet and stuff like that. And it's like, Guys, imagine if gamers came together to do something good for people like the Bungie Foundation.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
I mean, if we can defend a virtual planet from insects, we can absolutely come together and just donate a few dollars to something great like what you guys are doing. So to put our money where our mouth is in that regard, we wanted to announce that we are donating $5,000 to the Bungie Foundation. This comes with a thank you to you guys for what you do.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
I mean, honestly, it's like you said, Jared, like we would love to see more of this in the gaming industry. And if gamers can come together to do stuff, then maybe studios can come together to work together as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Um, but I mean, Christine, the fact that you've dedicated so many years of your life to helping people out through the bungee foundation and Jared, you know, the fact that you have helped with that and made that such a large part of your life and continue to do so, even if we joke a little bit about you kind of getting into the production side, we know it's still a large part of your heart and what you're interested in as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
And so, um, Thank you for what you guys do in that. And I'm glad that we can just give a little bit. And then hopefully that motivates other gamers to jump in there as well. So, you know, it should not be taken lightly what you guys do and that you dedicate your days to this, to helping other people. And so we wanted to just take a minute to say thank you for that, number one.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
I think I could take a grunt, too, to be honest. You think so? Just punch him right in the face. Maybe nothing else, but I think I could take a grunt.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Thank you for the dedication that you have to making the world a better place as well. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
You're going to make me cry. I can't think of that. Come on.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
You guys are great. No, you are. All right. Listen, we are running out of time very quickly here, but we wanted to just end things on a little bit of fun. Some quick fire questions for you guys before we wrap this episode up here. So, you know, these are going to be nonsensical, you guys, but here we go. So if you could take one cool thing home from Bungie headquarters, what would it be?
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
It's a proven career track. Proof of concept is there. All right. So odd question. You guys are a AAA studio. What's the parking situation like at Bungie? It's pretty okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Well, listen, guys, we want to just thank you again for your time on this. This has been incredible to just get to talk to the both of you, to hang out with you guys, to, you know, just learn more about Bungie, the Bungie Foundation, just gaming, have some laughs, some fun. I mean, this has really been a joy for us.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Um, we just wanted to say thank you for the opportunity to chat and just have a good time together. Like this has been great. So thank you both for everything that you do for the gaming world. I mean, honestly, it, it, it's really, truly incredible. So it's, it's been an honor for us to have you both on.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
And so for, from us and all of our listeners, a very hearty and humble thank you to both of you.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
It's been a pleasure. Absolutely. Thank you for the generosity.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
That's really good. So, all right, well, listen, that's going to do it for this episode, everybody. Thank you for tuning in. Jared, Christine, thank you so much for hopping on here and talking with us all about all things Bungie, uh, the Bungie foundation. Uh, you know, just, this has been an absolute joy. That's going to do it for this episode, everybody. Until next time, happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Take care.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Yep. Them putting that on mobile, we joke that productivity everywhere is just done. The fact that they put that on mobile devices, it's like, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
So Jared, we put Christine on the spot. We've got to put you on the spot here, too, just to keep things fair. So favorite weapon in Halo?
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
Just waiting. Or getting stuck and then waiting is the opposite. That's the worst.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
All right. What's up? We gotta put you guys on the spot a little bit there too. All right, so Bungie is, I mean, it is such a huge name when it comes to gaming. I mean, I don't think that there's a gamer alive who hasn't heard of Halo or Destiny. And we're all old enough to remember the launch of the Xbox and the impact that Halo had on the gaming world as a whole.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
The heyday of Destiny, the massive success of Destiny 2 is honestly legendary. And so we'd love to chat a little bit about some of the culture and then kind of the magic of Bungie over the years, if that works for you guys. So, Christine, you mentioned that you got a job working for Bungie right out of college. How does one get to work at one of the most iconic game studios in existence?
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
And also, I'm pretty sure you don't even come close to my time in EverQuest.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
And joining us, they work for a little game studio you may have heard about. Just the company that, you know, made two of the most successful franchises to ever exist. From Bungie Studios and the Bungie Foundation, it's Jared and Christine. Hey everybody, happy to be here. How are you guys doing today?
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
So I understand how fast like time can go by all of a sudden. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
We Sat Down with Bungie: Dev Secrets and How They're Giving Back - Gaming Podcast
He's got a cool voice. Oh, that's amazing. So, Jared, what about you? Did you start with the Bungie Foundation? Is that actually how you started?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
This resulted in a reduction of a design team based in Seattle that is part of a larger global design function in support of Marvel rivals. We appreciate the hard work and dedication of those affected and will be treating them confidentially and respectfully with recognition for their individual contributions. Sounds like they're getting a pizza party to me, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
It's Little Caesars.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
If you get Little Caesars as your pizza party, man, like... A $5 large, baby. So... Anyway, that's enough of this, man. It sucks for everybody. What are you doing? This is why we really don't like AAA developers that don't care about their people. That's not to say all of them are like that. But man, it just sucks. So, all right, we got the bad stuff out of the way, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Let's talk about the Sony State of Play. Ryan, we got a lot of games to talk about, dude. This State of Play gave us a lot of games to take a look at. Dude, one of my favorite things is just loading up like eight different game trailers.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
And then just like watching one and being like, ooh, it's like Christmas almost. up a present. And I'm like, I don't know what I'm going to get. What's this Soros game? What is it? And then it opens up and I'm like, is this like Returnal? Like, oh, I always wanted Returnal.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. On this episode of This Week in Gaming, we're breaking down the gameplay reveals from the state of play. We've got some awesome games we're excited to talk about, but first, some introductions are in order.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, so let's dive into it, man. I mean, I touched on this at the top of the show, but a lot of these games are coming out cross-platform, which I absolutely love. Kudos to you, Sony, for understanding that there's a lot of gamers in the world.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
A few of these are like PlayStation exclusive, but this first one is, I don't know if you say it's Saros or Saros or whatever, but this is basically the spiritual successor to Returnal. Um, I did not play returnal until like last year when it came out on PC. I love roguelike games. I love difficult games. I like shooter games. Like returnal was that kind of, Oh man, you really need to play this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Um, did you ever play returnal?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. For what Returnal tries to be, it definitely nails it. So this game, Saros, we didn't get much. This is one of those trailers where it was really just kind of a cinematic trailer. And it's like, dude, if you're going to do that, give me four seconds of gameplay at the end. Just give me something, dude. So what this game is even going to be. Now you can tell it's returnal.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
It's the same studio. I mean the, you know, at the end they show some alien boss again, it's cinematic, but it's like he, he's shooting out this giant like spiral wave of, of bullets or energy balls or whatever. So it's like, you can absolutely tell that this has like the same DNA as returnal.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
But that's the only thing we got. And it wasn't even gameplay at all. I will say the visuals are super cool. Who doesn't want a sequel to Returnal? Take what you've learned, heighten that, spiff it up a little bit. But we just don't know a whole lot about this. Other than that, it's coming out in 2026. And it's like, dude, we're still early 2025.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
You gave me a gameplay trailer that's cinematics and you're telling me it's almost like two years away?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I know that there are people of the mindset that go, I bought a PlayStation so that I could play PlayStation games. This is the thing where I bought this. I want to be able to play these games. I get it. But at the same time, you are in theory saying, I don't want other people to be able to play these games. And it's like... I just want to play games, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Because we don't have a lot to talk about, that's all we're saying. It was a cool trailer, but we're kind of to the point where it's like, if you're not giving me something else, then I don't really know what we can talk about on that. One game that we did get to see an awful lot of was Metal Gear Solid Delta Snake Eater. This is the longest look we got at this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I got to say, dude, I'm pretty impressed. Like, I know that this game has had some issues in its development. It got delayed. You know, it's one of those things where, you know, was this going to come out last year? No, it's coming out this year. And then we did get the reveal that it's coming out later in 2025. But Ryan, you're the Metal Gear Solid expert.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Like, what did you think about this, man?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I liked Metal Gear Solid 5 a lot. You're going to love it. I will say this. This really got me hyped. We've been talking about this game for a while. I know that you're super excited about it. I went, dude, it really looks like this is a full remake. This isn't just a remaster. We got a view. We're not even bringing up the Days Gone remaster because it's like, dude, it's so it's so negligible.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
And I know that there's people that love it. And it's like, that's really cool. But like, dude, like this is this is the problem we have with remasters. Like it's just there's there's nothing to it. But with Snake Eater, like this is a full on remake of this game. And I got to be honest, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
The second they showed me a dude that had bees all over him, and he's got beehives in his hands, and I'm like, oh, here we go. Here we go. It's getting weird again.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I don't, I don't care what platform it's on. Like not everybody can have every gaming platform. So the more people that get to experience these games, the better, in my opinion, I understand the thinking of like the gatekeeper where it's like, this is my console.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I have never fought a boss that has beehives for hands, Ryan. Dude. Is this really a guy? Is this his thing? He's got bees?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
And to be clear, this is the first... I know it's not the first game, but this is the furthest back. Like, this is what starts the whole story of Metal Gear Solid, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
The reason I ask that is for people that were like me, where it's like, dude, I just didn't ever get into the Metal Gear Solid games. It's like, this is your chance. This is why they are making this one, because it's like, now you can kind of dive in at the start of the story, play this current modern game, get an idea of the craziness of beekeeper enemies, fire guy. There was another fire dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
It looks like he was wearing a scuba thing with fire shooting out of it. There's another electric guy. There's the old man guy. Like, this is all the things my brain's picking out. It's just like, what are these weird dudes? Fear, pain, sorrow.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
And so you shouldn't be able to play games on these, but dude, I mean, the more people that can play games, it's the better for everybody. There's really no downside there other than trying to like justify your choice of console. But then that gets into the whole console war thing, and I stay as far away from that as humanly possible.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
So that comes out August 28th of 2025, and they said this is for real. When people asked about their release date, they said, no, for real.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
All right. So we're going to take a quick break, and then we're going to come back and talk about the look we got at Borderlands 4. All right, we are back. So we did get some more gameplay for Borderlands 4. I know that we initially kind of said that, hey... I've been a big fan of the borderland series. It's dumb fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
It's kind of stayed the same over the last couple, you know, like borderlands two was the height of the franchise. Borderlands three wasn't as great. And then you had your kind of offshoots like tiny Tina's and some of this other stuff. And it's like, they're all just the same to me at this point. So we got this look at borderlands four.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I, I will say that the gameplay does look very smooth in my opinion, but, But is there anything different about Borderlands 4 that stood out to you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
The only, I really, I watched this trailer like two or three times, like legitimately. Cause I went, what am I missing? Like, I'm just, I'm seeing borderline. I watched it twice. I will say the, the thing that jumped out at me and it took me like two or three watches was the movement. I think is, is enhanced. If I had to pick something out, um,
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Like you have a grapple hook now and you have hovers and, you know, they showed a part where the guy like grapple hooks past a group of enemies, shotguns, a couple whips around and chucks like a grenade down as he's like flying by and it blows up the group. And that's when I kind of went, okay, like I think maybe they have tried to up the game on the movement in this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
And I remember kind of trolling Halo Infinite when we got the reveal of like the grapple hook because we were like, this is it. This is what we've been waiting 10 years for is a grapple hook in Halo. But I was wrong because that grapple hook freaking made Halo Infinite, dude. It was freaking sweet, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
And so it's like, if we throw a grapple hook in Borderlands 4, does that make this game sweet all of a sudden?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I think that we as gamers have gotten cautious.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Like we see this with Ubisoft. I'm not going to troll Ubisoft, but it's like, you know, we are seeing some studios that they go, hey, this worked. Let's just regurgitate this over and over and over again. And it's like, I loved Borderlands. And so it's like, I don't want to see that happen.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
But that was our criticism with Tiny Tina's Wonderlands was it's like, dude, this is literally like, it's the same game. Like, yeah, there's some humor and there's, you know, the pony and all that stuff. And it's like, but stallion. And it's like, it made me laugh. But it's like, dude, where... like improve your game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
If you're giving me sequels and you're calling this Borderlands 4, Borderlands 4 should feel twice as good as Borderlands 2. And it's like, if you're just regurgitating it over and over again, I start to have a problem with that. And so maybe it's going to be great. I am with you. I want it to be fun because man, what a good time with friends Borderlands can be.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
But until we see what sets this apart, I am with you. I'm a little hesitant, man. And I hate that because I know there's people that love Borderlands. I love Borderlands. But I'm just getting worried that this is just another regurgitation, man. Yeah. Well, hopefully not. Hopefully not. Yeah, I hope not. And Borderlands 4, we did get a release date on that one, September 23rd.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
So they've got some time. but please do something with it, man. It's like, you know, what's the meme with the stick and the dude's poking. It's like, do something. Come on. That's what I want. Like do something borderlands for like, give me something neat, man. Oh boy. All right. I'll tell you what my opinion on this game was not super good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
And then it changed after I watched this trailer a second time. So we did get a look at a new IP called tides of annihilation and Annihilation is just a good word, dude. Yeah. Oh, it's so good. I love using that. Like, you know, playing rivals like, oh, I just got annihilated, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
So. Tides of Annihilation looks legit, in my opinion. Now, I will say the first time I watched this, I kind of went, this looks like Stellar Blade slash Dark Souls slash whatever. We're seeing a ton of these games now. As much as I like Dark Souls combat and stuff like that, it's like we're kind of starting to get flooded with it, where it's like every game is Dark Souls combat.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
We just had somebody in our community talk about the Berserker, Kazan, the Berserker game that's coming out. And like, aren't you hyped for it? And I kind of went, it's just like every other Dark Souls game, man. Like, you know, we've got, I got Black Myth Wukong. I've got Dark Souls. I've got, you know, like there's a thousand games that have copied this formula at this point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
So we're kind of at the point where I think we're getting a little numb to it. And so that was my initial impression with Tides of Annihilation. But then I watched the video again. And I kind of went, okay, there's actually some cool stuff here. What did you think about the trailer before we get a little bit further into what some of the stuff is?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. My second watch through on this, I started to see a lot more where it was like, okay, this is really cool. Like the graphics are phenomenal. Like this is nothing with like the way that the game looks. I actually love the visual art style on this. Um, it did kind of remind me of expedition 33 where it's this, I don't even know how to describe it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
It's like a realistic, but kind of over the top, um, very stylized futuristic kind of, I don't even know the term for it. It looks real good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
But what got me was where I started to realize this is tying into Camelot. You are summoning, and you see this in the game, she summons various knights of the round table to fight with her. And so when you see this specter kind of shoot out, and we see different ones, like one freezes people. Where it's like, oh, well, that's kind of cool.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
And then another one, it's like he's kind of like almost like a glowing orange where it's like some big tanky knight and he smashes into this boss. And that's when I started going like, okay. Like, number one, I love Knights of the Round Table. I love like Camelot, King Arthur, all that stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
And then it was like to be able to summon these knights to help you fight was almost reminiscent of like Ender Lilies. where it's like you don't actually do the fighting, but you're summoning things. You do fighting in this game too, but I actually loved that idea of summoning help to do these things. And then the combat's over the top.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
It really kind of started to win me over after watching it again. So I went from being kind of blasé to like, okay, I kind of want to see more, but if this game holds up to what it looks like, then this might be one I'm actually pretty darn interested in. Yeah. We're running a little low on time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Console gaming's not going away. People love to sit on their couch and play on their big 70-inch TV.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
um mine's eye we we got we got a glimpse at this game called mine's eye that i went dude this is just gta like this is like gta with like a futuristic vibe but like the driving was so like gta and then like the characters and the walking around and i was like i mean okay and then come to find out that it's actually made by like some of the original gta devs and stuff and i was like okay okay this makes a lot more sense i'm not crazy this makes sense
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I thought mine's eye looked pretty good, dude. Like, I kind of almost went like, I have GTA at home. Like, why would I play this GTA? But then it's like a futuristic kind of GTA, which I was kind of getting down on.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
That is not going away. There's no danger to consoles by games being available on multiple ones. And I'm with you. Maybe they start getting innovative and saying, hey, this console... We're back to Blu-rays. You know, you want to play this on your TV and have really good high end video and audio like there you go.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
It does look really good. Like polished wise. Like I was watching it and I was like, dude, this looks like a really good title. Here's the only thing it is. It's very much GTA, but like, are we going to get GTA six this year? Can you imagine releasing a game that's basically like, hey, we made GTA in our own format, but now we got to go up against GTA 6 at the same time?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
It's like I could definitely see a delay.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
You paid everything.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
So I will say mine's eye looked pretty darn impressive from like a gameplay. And we did get a pretty good bit of gameplay on it too. Yeah. I thought that one looked good. And then we have to talk about split fiction because split fiction is releasing in just a few weeks.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I don't know if people realize that, but it is releasing March 6th and we are halfway through February, a little bit more at the point of this episode releasing. So it's like, it's coming people. It is. It's coming real soon. And we got a look at more of just the story kind of trailer, but of course with them, they showed off a little bit more of the gameplay and,
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I am getting really excited for Split Fiction, dude. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
So I definitely could see a world where they move consoles into like more of like the home automation stuff where it's like this is controlling your speakers. This is controlling the lights in your house, that kind of thing. I'm with you, but. We got sidetracked already. We're not even four minutes in. Back to state of play. Oh, my goodness.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It takes two... I can't remember the other game that was similar to A Way Out that I also played. I mean, this is what they focus on, right? They're like, dude, people should be playing games together. These are the type of games that we make, and they absolutely know what they're doing in that one. I'm very excited for Split Fiction. We will be covering it as a deep dive.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I think the plan right now is we're going to cover Avowed, and then we're covering Split Fiction as soon as we can on that also. So...
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I don't know what you're talking about. I know. You're going to stay there for a while, dude. Yeah, so that's one. It's just going to be dumb fun, man. I love it. And listen, we say this all the time. If you think split fiction looks great, but you're like, I don't have anybody to play with, yes, you do.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I guarantee you that you can find somebody to play games with that is an awesome gamer that is part of our community. It is free to join our community. nobody, and we're very, very passionate about this. Nobody should, should say, I want to play this game, but I don't have anybody to play with.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
So if you want to play split fiction and your only thing holding you back is you don't have a gaming buddy to play with, come join our community. We will absolutely make that happen for you. Um, we'll join you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
At some point, if we have to, but this is something that we're, we are absolutely passionate about and we're going to keep saying to people, no gamer left behind in this regard. Um, come play games with people and split fiction just looks incredible to me, man. So yeah, it's one of those. I think that does it, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
What did you think about the state of play overall?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I literally wrote this out. Ryan is reading my notes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Oh, my goodness, man. Ryan giving people an insight into my dumb brain. I think it was a good state of play. I'm not going to lie. I mean, maybe we're easily excitable and stuff like that. But I mean, Metal Gear Solid, Snake Eater, Borderlands 4, Tides of Annihilation, Split Fiction, Mind's Eye. We didn't even talk about Metal Eden in some of these other games that were kind of revealed as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
You know, listen, we got to do a little bit of housekeeping, Ryan. And this is awesome because we have two new epic supporters to thank. Dude, like the people that go out of their way to support the show and just make sure that they are bringing this podcast to the world are incredible, dude. We would not be here if it was not for people like supporting us.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I think... I mean, what's not to love? We didn't get Red Dead Redemption 3 announcement. It's like, come on, guys. Not everything can be the announcement of the sequel to one of the best games ever kind of thing. But I don't understand the criticism with saying there was nothing here. I think there's a lot to be excited for. Yeah. But then again, we're excitable guys, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
We just like games, man. All right. Well, listen, that does it for this episode. Thank you for joining us. Hey, as a quick reminder, if you have not done so already, please make sure that you follow the podcast in your podcast app. It's a plus button. It's a follow button on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Make sure you rate us five stars if you haven't done that already.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
And if you do listen on Apple Podcasts, write us a review. We'll read it on the show and we'll see if you can one up all these other awesome reviews we've been reading lately as well. If you want to help support this show and keep this podcast going like all of the other incredible people and our two new epic members that signed up Sloppy Stew and Dice Rono,
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Thank you so much to both of you and to everybody else that makes this podcast possible. If you have it on your heart to do that and you want to say, Hey man, I like what you guys are doing. I want to be a part of that and support that. You can do that over at multiplayer squad.com. That's it for this one until next time. Happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I am your host, Josh, and joining me, we've got all these games to talk about, but he asked if we could just make this the Metal Gear Solid Delta episode.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
And so we want to say a huge thank you to two epic members, Sloppy Stew and Dice Rono. Man, y'all rock. Thank you for signing up for Epic Status. Everybody else that's listening, you owe a thank you as well because this is what keeps the show going.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Make sure you dice your Rono up very fine and then add it to your sloppy stew.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We've been brewing too many potions.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Quit sampling your own goods, Ryan. I think maybe that's the problem. Oh, man. Yeah. And then on top of new supporters, we have some more reviews. We promise we're going to catch up on these a little bit. So we're going to read two for you. And man, dude, people are upping their game on the reviews. I love it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I love the fact that it's almost like this fun competition for people to be like, dude, I'm going to leave the most epic review imaginable. Number one, it's great for people that are looking at the show and they're going, dude, this must be the best podcast in the world. Number one, it is. But number two, we love the creativity that y'all are bringing on these reviews.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
So this one comes in from Cashflow Thrift, and it is titled A True Masterpiece of Gaming Discourse. And it says... I've listened to more gaming podcasts than I've had hot meals, but the video gamers podcast stands out like a shiny pixelated beacon in a sea of monotonous noise. The hosts have this uncanny ability to make even the most mundane game sound like the second coming of Mario. The banter.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Chef's kiss. It's like listening to a group of friends who've just discovered the cheat code to life, but in gaming terms. If you're looking for a podcast that could turn even a non-gamer into a console-hugging enthusiast, this is it. Just a heads up, though. After listening, you might start describing everyday tasks in terms of XP gains and boss fights.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
10 out of 10 would respawn for this podcast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
You're going to hear that a lot. We got the longest look at Metal Gear Solid Delta, the remake so far. And so we're going to talk about that here in just a little bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Darn right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I am wearing a Helldivers 2 shirt. Ryan's got his Sweet Liberty, my leg!
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
It never ceases to amaze us, honestly. We're just two goofy dudes who love video games and turn on some microphones and talk about it. The fact that so many people in the world have just been a part of this is incredible, dude. Like, I mean, we say it all the time, but we are absolutely blown away. I mean, this podcast is growing in leaps and bounds.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So I'm actually, you know, I saw a lot of conversation online, just like people like to do online. But it's like there were people that were like, Oh, this is the worst state of play. And then other people are like, what are you talking about, man? We got like a whole bunch of good looking games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
And that is 100% because of the listeners in the community and the fact that people are telling their friends, you know, and they're tagging us in social media. And it's like they're helping spread the word. And it's just, dude, it's humbling. Like, honestly, like, I mean, the fact that people want to listen to us, you know, and we love it. But the thing is, dude, like we're gamers with you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Like we say it all the time. Our community, dude, we're right there playing games with you. We've been playing headliners. We've been playing rivals. Like we're, we're, we are the gamers. Like, you know, we're not some dudes that are like apart in some way and talking into microphones and stuff like that. Like we're, we're in the trenches with you people. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
The other thing is too, is just, if you just want genuinely good people to talk to, like, dude, like that's the other thing, man. People are always talking like, yes, we talk about games a lot, but people are sharing, you know, what's going on in life sometimes. And I mean, I, you know, humans crave like interaction, but I get that people are like, I don't want people trolling me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I don't want to get, I don't want to get into politics. I don't want none of that. And it's just like, dude, I love it. It's like, if you want to be part of a family, like this is the family and Everybody is welcome, dude. As soon as somebody joins and they say hello, I love that we get like five or six people that are just instantly like, dude, welcome. It's awesome to have you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
What kind of games do you like and stuff like that? So don't take our word for it. Come try it out. Links in the episode description to our Discord server. It really is awesome. So. All right, man, let's just get the bad news out of the way, Ryan. I mean, I hate to start off an episode like this, but it is the breaking news for the week. And it's like we've got to tackle this, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
This just breaks my heart, man. This is unfortunately part of the industry that is the gaming industry, and I hate it. I mean, I think everybody hates it universally, except for CEOs and shareholders that are wanting to make money. But we did get news that the Marvel Rivals team here in the US was just straight up canned. I mean, all of them. Just let go.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
So we're going to talk about it. And the beauty is if you are not a PlayStation person, fear not. Neither am I. But most of these games are coming out on PC and a few of them are cross platform. So this is not like the days of Sony exclusive are over, buddy. They're over. We're all going to get to enjoy these games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
They were based out of Seattle. That's absolutely right. Yeah. And so the dude, I don't get this, man. Like we talk all the time about live service games and, you know, we're sick of everybody trying to have the live service game. But if you hit that live service game, you're filthy stinking rich. I mean, Scrooge McDuck swimming in your piles of gold, kind of rich.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
It's what every game developer in the world hopes for. It's why we have to suffer through so many crappy live service games that fail. And you would think... You would think, Ryan, that if you hit your live service dreams like they did with Marvel Rivals, that they would be buying people Lamborghinis at this point, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Okay, I am a kid, so... I could argue with you, but I'm like, dude, Lambo's like the gold. I know Ferraris. Forget Porsches. Porsches are ugly, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, we already got sidetracked in the intro, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
That's why. Because, hey, our game's a success. Everybody's loving it. We're exactly where we want to be. Now let's start trimming people so that we can make even more money.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I will say this, dude. Before we get into the show, the days of exclusives, I think it's time to be extinct, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
I think the issue here is that because these guys have kind of done what they needed to do, the company is saying, thanks, now you're just gone at that point. And I'm assuming that NetEase does not view this as a risky move for them because it's like, hey, your job here is done kind of thing. So this obviously took the world by storm.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
There's been a very negative reaction from gamers on this, rightfully so. I mean... this is just crappy dude. Like, I mean, it sucks. It sucks for the people that are, were affected. It sucks for us as gamers because it's like, this is the, this is the hobby we love, man. This is the passion. And then you find out that these companies are treating these developers like garbage.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction, Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Tides of Annhilation - Gaming Podcast
The Netties did come out with a kind of like an announcement or response to all this. And it's just PR speak, which bugs me. But it basically says we recently made the difficult decision to adjust Marvel Rivals development team structure for organizational reasons and to optimize development efficiency for the game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And then just sending me a couple screenshots and I could tell instantly that you were having fun with this game. But I always like to think about those first impressions of a game, right? Sometimes first impressions can be everything. I know that there are games where we have jumped into them and the first impression sucks. And then it takes a while to get going.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And then there's other games that start off really good and it's like the developers just fell asleep and then the rest of the game is bad. So without spoiling anything about your overall thoughts of the game, give me your first impressions kind of just an hour or two in.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I remember after I got your PlayStation and I was able to jump in on the first day, you said, I need you to let me know what you think after you play for an hour or two. Yeah. And I wrote it in our Discord server and I said, dude, this game is pure joy. Yep. I'm sticking by that as far as my opening impression goes.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
This might be one of the happiest, joyful games that I think I've ever played or that I have played in a very, very long time. My wife likes these kind of games, so she sat with me and was kind of watching me play it. All she kept saying is, oh, that's so cute. Oh, that's cool. I didn't know you could do that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And like, she just kept making these kind of like exclamations about stuff, but then I'm doing the exact same thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
You know, I'm like, Oh, look how cute he is. You know? And if you stop and like, don't move for a while, he takes a nap wherever he's at and he's got these cute little voice and you know, all this stuff. And so my initial impression was literally not to sound cheesy, but just joy, right? I just remember thinking like, dude, this is fun, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
This is exactly what I was hoping for with a 3D platformer. I mean, I'll be honest. I'm not a PlayStation owner. I've got nothing against PlayStation. I just didn't wind up getting one right now. And so nothing in the whole weird console war thing that some people love getting into. But I'm just not super invested in the PlayStation itself. The whole spaceship is a PlayStation.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
So there's definitely some like Homerism going on with this game or something like that, but it all just works, man. And the way they present it, they present it in such a good way that I just remember grinning and smiling and being like, I'm just, I'm a happy guy right now. All right. So there's our initial impressions.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Listen, let's get into the meat and potatoes of this game right after this break. All right, we are back breaking down Astro Bot. Ryan, let's get into the actual game itself. I mean, we've talked about our hype level. We've talked about our initial impressions. I think we've kind of teased this game enough for people.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
We always like to get into some of just the heart of a game so that people can kind of say, hey, you know what? This sounds like it's for me. Or if you're like me and you don't own a PS5, but you want to know more about Astro Bot, we're going to kind of break it all down for you.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
So you can kind of have a good idea of what this game is about, how it plays, what makes it special and that kind of stuff. So I want to start with something that Paul, our former host Paul, used to tease me about. And you used to tease me about a little bit too, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And that's because I made a comment one time on a game for the first Hellblade where I said, this game has the best audio I've ever heard in my life for a video game. And I remember Paul laughing and then he told you about it and you laughed. But other than you saying how great this game was initially, you told me, you said, Josh, you're going to lose your mind over the audio in this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
It's the best audio I've ever heard. And so I want to talk about that with people because I think I agree with you that this game has some of the best audio I have ever heard in a video game. And what the heck does that mean, right? Dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
You're still going to be my iron girdle?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
It is one of those things that is very hard to kind of quantify to people. Number one, I completely forgot that the DualSense controller has a speaker built into it. So when I started playing this game, I have a very good sound system in my living room. I mean, I've spent up a lot of money on this thing. I'm pretty proud of it. And so I had this game cranked up.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
you know, to, to full room filling, booming sound effects. And then here I am holding this controller and I'm looking down and I'm hearing the little robot's feet going across metal while this funny sounding song and all these sound effects are happening in, in, in my living room. But the sound coming out of the controller was his feet like running across a little metal platform.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Oh, boy. That's real friendship right there, buddy. oh man all right so listen we are deep diving astrobot we just brought this up in our latest twig episode that we were playing this game it is time you and i have both beaten it like i mentioned um I literally finished it this morning. I was up at like 5 a.m., dude. And I was like, well, I'm up. I might as well finish up Astro Bot.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And it just caught me off guard. I remember looking down and being like, dude, that is freaking cool, man. And then I'd run over like off the little metal platform onto the dirt. And then it would be like dirt feet sound effects right now. And I know everybody's like, well, dude, that's every video game. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
But it's different when it's coming from a secondary source and it's different when it is every single thing that's
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
this game dude yeah like that's the kicker it's not just footsteps it is the sound of water trickling it is wind blowing it is you know you mentioned pills like this game does this really neat thing and we'll get into that in the graphics part of this discussion where it will dump like a thousand gems like all over the ground and then you just run through this pile of gems but it's like it sounds like you're running through gems and I
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I've never ran through gems in my life. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
It really is impressive to me. I forgot that that was a feature of the DualSense. And the way that this game uses the speaker in the DualSense to heighten the audio in this game is absolutely phenomenal. It is spectacular. It amplifies the immersion of this game levels that are very, very hard to describe to somebody like over a podcast. And it's not just the fact that it's mixed in.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
It's that it's coming from a secondary source. Right. So your ears just pick these things out in like different ways. And the game does a phenomenal job with it. I'm with you. I mean, I think Hellblade and Astro Bot, as crazy as those two games are, are at the top of my list as far as like the best audio I've ever heard in a game, man. The soundtrack for this game is bonkers.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
It's very silly, but it's very kind of upbeat and funny. It changes kind of from level to level and stuff like that, too. Just absolutely top notch sound and audio design. I know we'll talk a little bit later about there's some people that think this might be a game of the year contender. If it doesn't win game of the year, it's going to win best sound design. You know, like our audio design.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I forget what the exact category they call it now. But man, what an impressive way to present your game to people for sure. Yes. So, okay. So... I know there's people probably laughing like, wow, you guys really just gussed over the audio. But trust us, it matters. And it really does stand out in this game. The other thing that stands out in this game are the graphics.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Now, when we talked about at the top of the show, hey, this trailer caught us by surprise. We were instantly hyped for it. Why? Because this game looks beautiful. It is colorful. It is polished. It... has a lot of variety to the graphics in the game, um, which I think is important for a game like this. Um, I remember when we talked about our, you know, our excitement for playing.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And when we saw the trailer, I believe the word we used was fluid as far as like how the animations in this gameplay looks. I'm going to stand by that. I think that this game is insanely fluid in how it is presented and, From a graphical standpoint, you know, I think it takes full advantage of the PS5 and uses it in ways that I don't think a lot of other people have, to be honest.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Everybody talks about, you know, frame rates and performance mode and, you know, that kind of stuff. And, oh, is this game going to push 60 frames a second and all that? Dude, ultra realism. I like ultra realism when it comes to graphics, but that does not a game make, you know, an Astro Bot is a very good example of here is a colorful.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I don't want to call it cartoony because cartoony almost nowadays means like cell shaded or a certain art style. And it's not that. But this this game to me is one of the most graphically pleasing games that I think I've played in a long time as well. And I think that ties into what we were just talking about with the audio and how this game is presented graphically. What did you think?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And then sure enough, it took me about two hours and I beat it right before I headed off to work. So we are going to get into all things Astro Bot. This is the disclaimer that says, listen, we're going to cover a lot of aspects of this game. We are going to cover some of the abilities in the game. A few of the little secret things that you might come across.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I mean, I think it's a beautiful game. I love the different aspects that they use. But what do you think about the graphics on this?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I really can't. And I am a graphics snob. I don't hide that. I love good graphics in a video game. And this game has it in spades. Every single level is just alive. And it's alive with stuff that is neat to look at. I don't remember exactly what level it was, but there's a little ledge that you can drop down on. I'm looking for a robot friend to rescue. I dropped down on this ledge and
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
It's a teeny, teeny portion of an entire level. But I dropped down on this ledge and I see these tunnels with ants crawling through the tunnels. And it was just so cool to be like, I can't believe they put that here where nobody is ever going to see this. You know what I mean? It's just this one little ledge that I just happened to fall down on.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And here's these little ants just going about their work inside the ground. Every level is filled with that. We talked about they dump piles of gems and little candy pellets and pills and stuff like that on you all the time. Those are so fun. It's like the snow where you just run through them, dude. I felt like a kid running through a leaf pile. Exactly, yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
This game doesn't have any huge spoilers. It's not like there's some huge twist or something like that. But if you want to go into this game completely blind, then you might want to come back to this episode later on. If you're the kind of person that's like, look, I just want to know what you guys think, and I'm going to pick it up and have fun with it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Where like for boss fights, for instance, the bosses look huge. This is not a 2D side-scrolling platformer. It is a fully 3D platformer. And they do some really neat things with the camera in this game as well to kind of create a sense of scale, perspective, move. Like it'll swing around behind you while you're sliding down like a ledge or something as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
So they absolutely nailed the presentation on this game. All right. I mean, a game ain't a game if it's not fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And what makes a game fun? Gameplay. Right. I mean, this is one of those things where you can have the fanciest graphics and the fanciest sounds in the world. But if your game sucks, nobody's going to want to play it for very long. All right. So we're going to get into the gameplay part of Astro Bot.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I don't want to get too crazy detailed in this because sometimes you just have to see it to understand it and you have to play it to feel it kind of thing. But what are you doing in this game, Ryan? What's a level look like? You selected a level to play. You fly down to that level. What the heck are you doing in Astro Bot?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Hearing about an ability that you get in the game may not bother you, but, you know, we always like to respect people's, you know, thoughts on that kind of stuff. So, yes, we will talk about aspects of the game, but we're going to try not to, like, spoil or anything too crazy. But I don't really think there are any, like, major spoilers.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I will say that this game does follow the kind of tried and true formula for a 3D platformer where your goal in every level is to find your stranded robot friends. And usually, if I remember right, it's seven available guys in every level.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
the base levels, there are some secret levels and there's some like, um, I don't want to call them boss levels, but some optional, like really hard levels, crazy level one. Yeah. Like where you get like one guy, but the easier just main levels are, there are seven lost robots. You progress through the level, uh, Like you mentioned, there's a lot of enemies.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
There's a lot of platforming and elevators and bounce pads and everything that you could imagine being in a 3D platformer. And as you make your way through the level, you will hear, and again, this goes back to the audio design in this game, somebody crying for help. And it's like, oh, wait.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And then you start looking around and there's a guy that's hanging up on a tree and you're like, well, how do I get up there? And then you start looking around and you see, oh, okay, well, if I run over here and then I run up this path, I can hop on this elevator. It'll take me over here.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I'll jump on this jump pad and then I'll try to land on that guy in the tree and then you rescue him kind of thing. Yeah. That is the meat and potatoes of every level in this game, is you make your way through, rescue your robot friends, make it to the end of the level, and then you escape with them on your PlayStation controller, and then they all get to go back to your home planet.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
That makes it seem very simple. And this game is anything but simple. Yeah. Because almost every level in this game has some sort of twist or ability that you get when you start the level or mini boss fight at the end of the level that surprises you and catches you off guard to some new mechanic that you've never seen before to all of a sudden you're
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
underwater and you're swimming around in a water level. And it's like, what the heck, dude? Like, where did this come from? And this is where Astro Bot to me is absolutely masterful in its gameplay design is it never throws the same thing at you
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
for for very long yeah that's not to say that when you get an ability so for instance like i think very very early on in the game you get these frog gloves and they showed this off in the trailer so this is not a spoiler but these frog gloves allow you to punch out it's like punching gloves on little springs and you shoot them out and you can punch things really fast you can use them to grab on to like almost slingshot yourself in certain areas stuff you can grab
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Right. Yeah, exactly. So you're playing this level, you're rescuing your friends, and all of a sudden you find this treasure chest and it's got frog gloves in it. Well, that completely changes how you approach the rest of this level. And you realize, oh, I can grab onto things and I can pull it really hard. I can punch things.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And so now that you have this ability, the game is throwing things at you so that you have to use that ability. And to me, this was what really made Astro Bot, in my opinion, is you get so many different abilities. I mean, you know, you can become a balloon where you fly really high and float around. You get frog gloves.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I'm not going to sing anymore to save y'all's ears. Sorry about that. We are re-releasing our Astro Bot episode to celebrate it winning game of the year. Ryan and myself also picked Astro Bot for best game of the year. Sorry, Paul Blackmuth Wukong didn't quite make it, even though we know that was your favorite game of the year.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
You get monkey hands where you can chuck rocks and smash the ground and stuff like that. You get rockets that you strap onto your back. You get a suit of armor. To where your guy is almost invulnerable at that point. There are so many cool features, and I don't want to spoil them for everybody.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. All right. So, you know, top of the show. This is a great time to remind people that if you are a fan of the podcast, if you like what you hear, if this is your first time listening, number one, welcome. Thanks for checking us out. But number two, make sure you follow the show. In your podcast app, there is a follow button, a plus button, a subscribe button, something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
But I do want to talk about a couple of them because they really, really stood out to me in those wow moments. Uh-huh. The mouse suit. Dude, do you remember? Okay, so you get this little suit where you become a mouse. But the coolest thing about the mouse is with the press of a button, you shrink down like Ant-Man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I mean, out of like Marvel, you know, like you just push the button and boom, your dude instantly shrinks down to a teeny, teeny size. The world around you just grows like crazy. Talk about perspective. It's instantaneous though, dude. It is the craziest thing. I was just like...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I could not believe that they pulled it off the way that they pulled it off where you could transform so quickly and the world around you would respond so fast that it was mind blowing to me. And now you're running through these tiny little tunnels to get to these areas. But then it's like, oh, here's a monster. So you just press the trigger. Boom, you're full size again. You crush that monster.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And then you just shrink down instantly again. Like, that level blew my mind. Is there another ability or another level that really caught you off guard or, like, just made you kind of go, wow?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I was going to say, yes. It's so hard to describe to people.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
It is one of those things. We'll move on here in just a second, too. But I really want to kind of drive this point home that we are so accustomed to games and perspectives and camera angles and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
But when we say at the press of a button, your character shrinks down to the size of a tiny mouse, and then at the press of a button, he grows back into his normal size and the world instantly changes perspective. Yeah. To do that on the fly while you're running and jumping and to have it respond the way that it does is not something that we witness in gaming very often.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And that goes back to show you the level of development and the level of polish that this game has is honestly second to none. It's a very hard thing to describe to somebody, but... But we are lifelong gamers.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Make sure you click that. That way you will get notified and get all of our new episodes direct to your ear holes every time we release one, which is every Monday and Thursday. So two times a week, you guys get to enjoy video game chat with me and Ryan. And on that same podcast app, there is very likely a way to review the show. You can rate us five stars on Apple and Spotify.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And I mean, this one little aspect of this mouse level where I got this mouse suit and I could shrink and grow was mind blowing to me because it's like, dude, nobody has done it like they have done it. I mean, yes, there's games where you grow and shrink, but it's like you kind of have to stop. And then it like does this animation where it's like, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. And now you're big.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
You know, it's not this instantaneous thing. Another one that I'll touch on very, very briefly is the time stop. ability that you get oh yes dude that was so cool to me you basically freeze the level almost like time is still going but it's in like super slow motion and the uses of that ability in the spooky town
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Yes, in the levels and the way that you have to use it to like guys will be slinging like attacks at you until you realize if I stop time, I can now jump on their attacks to use as a stairway to get to the guy that's attacking me and now I can attack him. Or to slow down water so that you can jump across these platforms now. And things like that. It's just masterful.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I don't want to spoil everything for people because some of the discovery and some of the abilities that you get in this game are kind of what make it. But dude, I love the fact that they gave you these different abilities. They designed the level around it. It made every level unique and fun to me in that regard. So... I absolutely love it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
All right, listen, we're going to get into some of the level design and kind of a little bit more into that aspect and some of the difficulty in this game because it's very up and down in my opinion, but we're going to take a short break and then we'll come back and talk about that. All right, we are back. Man. I feel like I'm smiling, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
My face is getting tired from smiling talking about this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I know, right? So this game is not very long. I would say it's probably seven to eight hours if I had to guess. I didn't look up the time to beat or anything like that, but I beat it in three days. A couple hour sessions each day. It is not an overly long game. It doesn't overstay its welcome.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
But the basic format for this game is it is broken down into these five different worlds there because you're out in space. They're nebulas and they kind of relate to different creatures. You've got like the gorilla one, the octopus one, the snake one and stuff like that inside each nebula. are a handful of worlds that you can choose to go to.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And you kind of just start on one, but then it opens up two after that, and then that one opens up two. And in each of these nebulas, there are... I'll call them hidden areas. They're not really hidden because you just have to kind of look and you'll see a little comet that's kind of streaking through the level as you fly your ship around.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
If you go and touch that comet with your ship, lo and behold, you get a little mini stage to play. And one of the things in this game that I found... was that I thought most of the levels were kind of easy. As I'm playing, it's like, hey, cool, I gotta find these guys, but the platforming's not super technical and hard.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
You die a couple times to a guy that's spitting slime at you or something like that. Maybe you fall off a ledge, but overall, I don't think this is a very difficult game. But there's always those hard levels and platforms, right? And so as I am starting to explore a little bit more and I've got my feet under me, I find this, I don't even remember which nebula I'm on, but I found the secret area.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
It's out, oh, it was a comet, right? Or an asteroid field. And so I smashed my ship through it and all these little shapes sprinkle out. And I'm thinking, oh, this is just one of those cutesy little things that it lets you interact with. And then all of a sudden, like a stage appears, right? And I'm like, oh, this is cool. And it's called the lost triangle stage. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And I'm like, oh, what's this? So I run through it. I do a little thing. And now four little triangles scatter across this nebula. And I'm like, OK, well, I guess I'll go see what these are. Dude, this is where the game gets challenging. OK, I am a glutton for punishment. I love difficulty. I like playing hard platformers and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
If you're on Apple, you can leave us a written review, which we absolutely love to see. Those are the best. I'm in love. Oh.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
For people that may have heard or are worried about difficulty spikes or the ease of playing this game, the game itself, not super difficult. I think it's the right amount of challenge in that regard. Dude, these stupid shape levels, that's what I'm going to call them because you get four different sets, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
There's four of the triangles, four of the circles, four of the squares, and four of the Xs just to follow the PlayStation buttons. My wife had to come check on me because she just kept hearing me going like, no, I was right at the end.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
So if you are a glutton for punishment like I am and you want challenge, these levels are where it is at. I think I legitimately yelled at one level. I attempted that level 40 times, dude, before I finally beat it. And the thing with these are,
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
you die at the very end there are no checkpoints if you die you start at the beginning of this level no and so it starts to become one of these like i just have everything memorized like the timing and the and the area and i i personally love that because that's the challenge for me and where in the beginning of one of these levels i would die within the first 30 seconds
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And I go, dude, that's so hard. By the end of it, I'm flying through the first 30 seconds. I'm a master at that point. So I just wanted to put it out there for people that are like me that want some challenge and some difficulty. This game does offer it to you, but it offers it to you in that optional aspect.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
what yeah right dude it's weird because some of them i i actually would kind of almost blitz through after an attempt or two and then like i said there were other ones where it was 30 40 attempts dude before i freaking beat these stupid levels they're just for the challenge you get one guy at the end like a little robot friend is like a you know consolation prize i guess it's more just the saying i beat these levels yeah that is the reward there so
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
All right, Ryan, we've been gushing over Astro Bot for almost 50 minutes now. Is there anything in this game that you think doesn't work or is a you wished it had been better? Maybe it's a negative anything, you know, to kind of balance out all the the excitement and gushing that we've been doing on Astro Bot.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
That's a good thing when the downfall or the negative part of a game is just that it's over. Yeah, I know, right? At that point. I will say for me, I mean, I definitely would love to play this game more. There's a lot more for me to do on it. If I had to put a negative on this game, and this is personal, just gaming trends for me, I am not a game completionist.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And it says, guys, I absolutely love you all and the show. I'm 37, so it's nice to also hear from gamers of a similar age who I can virtually reminisce with when you talk about the good old days. Found the show a few months ago and have binged my way through the episodes and have now subscribed to listen to the extras. I think my husband is starting to worry, but no, really, it is great.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I don't care about platinum trophies. I don't want to go back to this level to find the one little robot that I missed along my playthrough on that. So I would say for me, the replayability portion is probably not very high in my opinion. I could see that. I did have to actually go back to a couple worlds because I had missed most of the little robot buddies in there.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And I didn't have enough of like you have to have 200 robots rescued to fight the main boss for the entire game. And I was at like 190. And so then I was kind of like, oh, man, I got to go back to these levels and hunt around and try to find 10 more guys. And like for somebody like me, I don't like backtracking. I want new stuff. I want I want more levels that I've never seen before.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I don't necessarily want to go through the same level that I've already played and then try to find the one guy that's hidden around a corner because I just didn't happen to go explore over in that area. It's a very minor complaint. But I mean, again, you know, it's hey, what could this game do better?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
If this game ever gets fan made content like, you know, Super Mario did where people can make levels or something. Oh, my goodness. A DLC where you just give me give me 20 more levels, man. Like I will be the happiest dude imaginable in that regard. But I don't it's not in my gaming DNA to want to go back and revisit levels that I've already played to try to find a guy.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
The fact that they thought about that to help somebody like me that doesn't want to comb every corner and just say, hey, there's a guy in that direction, you know, and it's like radar. It beeps as you get closer and closer to a guy. I thought that was masterful, and I really actually appreciated that because I was like, it's like they're seeing into my soul, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Thank you. All right. So here's the other thing. This game, when it came out, came out to phenomenal reviews. We are gamers at heart. We are not experts. We do look at game reviews just like every other gamer out there and say, hey, is this game getting a ton of hype? Is it getting slammed? I will say that's not everything. Some games get bad reviews and people love.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Some games get great reviews and people don't like them. Every gamer is different in that regard. So review scores are more just like a pulse a lot of times for us. But when this game came out and the good reviews started pouring in, I mean, as of this recording, this game is sitting at a 94 on Metacritic, which is universal acclaim. That is a phenomenally high score for Metacritic.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
That's out of 128 critic reviews as well. So it's not like there's like 10 reviews and they just happen to be good ones. The user score, which usually differs from the critics score for a lot of games, is a 9.4. Yeah. This is like you're telling me the gamers and critics agreed on this game that it's that good. And there's over 2300 user scores for this game as well. Sitting at a 9.4.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
So what I want to do before we get to rating this on our leaderboard and getting our scores for the game is ask you, do you think that Astro Bot is a game of the year contender with the chance to possibly be the game of the year winner after playing it?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I've discovered games through you that I'd never heard of, which I now want to play, or games I was maybe a the fence about but now i'm more willing to give them a go keep it up and i can't wait for more oh and one final thing out of all of you my gaming likes tend to fall more in line with paul's tastes so i've got to say it stardew and rimworld are total goats well
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I will say that I am absolutely with you on this one. I'll be honest, dude. I will... We have not played Space Marine 2 yet. I have not anyway. I know you've played for a couple hours. But barring Space Marine 2 being one of the best games that I have played this year, I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think Astro Bot will actually win Game of the Year. Dude, I'm with you.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I think it will win. We have kind of been saying 2024 started off really hot. It came out on fire. It kind of cooled down. There were some games that we were very excited about, like Dragon's Dogma 2, Black Myth Wukong. Nothing wrong with those games necessarily, but not the Game of the Year contenders that I think we were hoping them to be.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Now, Black Myth Wukong, I think, might be in the conversation for Game of the Year as far as the nominee goes. Astro Bot for me is the lock for game of the year at this point. Like, unless something else comes out, I know that sounds crazy, but it is that much of a complete video game. The only downside to Astro Bot is that it is a PS exclusive. I don't know if that hurts it or not.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I mean, God of War won Game of the Year when it came out, and it was a PS exclusive. So, I mean, if you were going to say, well, why wouldn't it win? The only reason I can think of is that it is just exclusive to one particular console, and that's it. Yeah, I mean, I want to hear, if you...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, I don't know either. I mean, we kind of talked about the negative aspects. You know, it's one of the reasons we brought it up, and there's not many. Yeah. Okay, well, you heard it here. I'm calling it Game of the Year winner. Ryan's saying it's up there, maybe winner?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I don't know if you're planting your flag yet, Ryan, but I think, like I said, barring something else coming out that wows us quite like this game, I am going to say I think it will win Game of the Year. All right. Let's go to our leaderboard, Ryan, because we saw what it's ranked with Metacritic. We've seen the user reviews. People have heard us gush for an hour now over this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
We always rate games that we cover on the show on our leaderboard. You can check that out at videogamerspod.com. It's broken down into our ratings. We still have Paul's ratings on there as well. If you want to find a game to play, this is a fantastic way to just scroll the list. You can then go and listen to an episode because if it's on the leaderboard, we have done an episode on it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
All right, Ryan, where are you putting this on your leaderboard? I have a feeling I think I know where it's going to be, but I want to hear it. Make it official. Where are you putting this?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
A nine seven on your leaderboard. Ryan puts it at the third highest game on your leaderboard. Second only to red dead redemption two and God of war 2018 at 9.8. Yep. Yep. I don't, I don't blame you. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Um, okay. So for me, I think this game is absolutely phenomenal, dude. I loved this game from the second I got to play it till the minute I put it down. Even the credit sequence in this game is well done. Like, I mean, why doesn't every game do that? You play the credits like it's goofy. The credits are a level, you know, and it's like, oh, OK, that's really cool. I said it before.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I'll say it again. This game is pure joy to play. That's the best way I can describe it, man. I mean, I don't know another way to say, you know, this game is good. It's fun to play. It's it's you know, oh, yeah, it's pretty. It sounds good. I mean, it's a joy. If you want a game that is going to make you smile and is going to make you feel like a kid again. This game is it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I cannot think of another game in recent memory that has brought that feeling of discovery and joy and just happiness. You know, I mean, it's got this vibe to it that is just so refreshing and so good. I am going to put this in a category of games where I only have two other games in this category, and that is Rocket League. which for me is one of my all-time favorite games.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
It's probably my most played game and a game that I think was one of the most fun games that we have played this year, which is Helldivers 2. I am putting this at a 9.5. The only reason I will say this, the only reason that I do not have this game ranked higher is a lack of a story. Now, listen, I'm one of the first people that go, but this game isn't supposed to have a story. And I get it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And that is not a failing because they nailed what they're trying to do. The only reason this game is not higher for me is because it does not have that memorable story that I will go to bed thinking about, that I will be wondering, well, why did this character do this? Or what happened if I did that kind of thing? And I think that that is the only piece that is missing.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
It is not a fault of the game because this game isn't intended to be that way. So for me, 9.5, I mean, people that know me know Rocket League is one of my favorite games ever. And it's sitting in the exact same rating as Rocket League and Helldivers 2 to me. 9.5 is the highest game that we have rated in a very long time. Yeah, dude. That tells you everything you need to know about Astro Bot.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
If you have a PlayStation... and you have not picked this game up, we cannot encourage you enough to spend the money to play this game. Do it. It's a short game. I don't care. Honestly, it's worth every penny. It's got some replayability value. If you are a completionist and a platinum trophy hunter, this game will absolutely be up your alley.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
listen mentally i'm like 17 i don't think i've ever aged today that sounds about that sounds about right yeah we're just gonna leave it there so all right ryan astrobots yes I joked at the beginning of the show that this game was revealed at the PlayStation State of Play at the end of May. I know when we first saw it, we all went, whoa, what is this?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
If you just want one of the best games to come out in a very long time, this is it as well. If you don't own a PS5, do like I did. Find a friend that has one and say, hey, dude, can I borrow your PS5 for like four or five days? I promise I'll give it back. But man, find a way to play this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, it really is. Yep. So, uh, also tell Jackson, I said, thanks. And I also, I want to see him beat those lost shape levels. Oh, we're going to true test of how good he is.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
All right. Well, I think that wraps up this episode. Please remember, if you enjoyed this episode and you want more like it, make sure you follow or subscribe to us in your podcast app. Leave us a five star review. If you want to go further and you want to help support the show, you can head over to multiplayer squad dot com. You can help support us for as little as five bucks a month.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
It really does go a long way in helping us keep things going. You'll get a shout out on on an episode. You get our heartfelt thanks. And you also get some cool perks like early access, ad free episodes, cool discord perks and things like that as well. Speaking of discord, make sure you join our gaming community. It is. Come say hi. It is the best group of gamers I think I've ever met in my life.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
There is no toxicity. There is no judgment. There's no console warring. People are looking for group a lot of times for games and stuff like that. It is family friendly. So your kids are welcome as well. We keep it family friendly there as well. Um, the link is in the episode description there. Uh, follow us on socials at video gamers pod.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
We do a lot of game alerts, game reviews, scores, just gaming news and stuff on our socials as well. Uh, our next game that we're diving into, like we said, is space Marine two. pumped to dive into that one. We'll have that episode in a few weeks for you. So make sure you come back for that one. And then on Thursday, we will have another This Week in Gaming coming up.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
So until next time, happy gaming. See ya!
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
You famously love Astro's Playground, which is the demo-ish type thing that came with PS5.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
But we are re-releasing this episode so you can live the hype, live the amazingness that is Astro Bot all over again. And we will be back at the new year to go over our most anticipated games of 2025. We hope you enjoy this episode. Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. The day has arrived.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I remember seeing this game and instantly going, oh, PlayStation exclusive. Like, what? Like, come on, man. Another one. I knew I'd be able to borrow your PlayStation for this. I do know that when we saw it, we were instantly impressed by Astro Bot. You know, it was one of those trailers that wasn't ho-hum for us. It was not a, well, this is interesting looking.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I mean, I think we were just kind of all in right from the get-go. Um, and so knowing that, and now that we've played it, let's go back in time a little bit to when we kind of first saw those trailers. Like, what were you hoping for? Like, what did, what did you hope that Astro Bot was going to be, um, before we actually got a chance to get our hands on it?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I think for me, when I saw this, it instantly gave me this weird nostalgia kick. Oh, yeah. Where I kind of went, this is a 3D platformer that somebody just developed in 2024 that looks incredible. It looks like it's taking advantage of the full power of the PS5. We'll get into graphics and some of that stuff a little bit later.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
But I just remember being really blown away by the presentation of this game. But the fact that somebody... made a game that was a 3D platformer like the games of old, like the Super Mario 64, you know, or Banjo-Kazooie and some of these like nostalgia games that you and I grew up with that really have kind of died off over the years.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I mean, that's not to say that they don't exist, but 3D platformers for a while were all the rage. And then they kind of fell by the wayside a little bit. And then all of a sudden, here comes Astro Bot just bursting into the 3D platformer world, if that world even exists anymore. And just kind of going like, well, I want to play this, man. It's like a piece of my childhood mixed with the future.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Well, they failed on that. I just borrowed yours, but it did work in getting me very hyped up for this game. So, all right, listen, let's get into the game itself. Like we like to do, we always pull a description of the game just straight from the developer so people understand what this game is marketed as and what they kind of claim it to be.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
So, Ryan, why don't you start us off with the official game description?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
Dude, I felt like an idiot because I don't know who like 80% of these characters were. So you rescue your little bot friends across the galaxy. That's kind of the main point of this game. You go through all these levels, you rescue your bot friends, and a lot of the bots are... definite nods to PlayStation characters and famous characters from various PlayStation games and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
They don't come out and outright call him that character, but... I don't know why, but they don't. So they give them a weird name like, you know, the Explorer. And then it's Nathan Drake or something. Right. Yeah. Oh, OK. So, yeah, a lot of these. I was just like, dude, I don't know who you are, but welcome to the party, man. I found you. Let's go.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
One of our most anticipated titles of the entire year that we didn't even know about until the end of May has arrived. Astro Bot has released. We've both beaten it, and we're here today to break it down with one of our classic gaming deep dives. Stick with us as we break down graphics, gameplay, fun factor, and more
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
It really does, man. Yeah, I was very happy with the throwbacks, the nods, the cameos, the Easter eggs and all that kind of stuff that they put in this game. Okay, so Ryan, Astro Bot just released. You picked it up on release day. Yes. If I remember right, the actual release of this was September 6th, if I have my date right on that, because it came out right before Space Marine is what it was.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And then all of a sudden, you're playing Astro Bot, and I declared publicly on air that I was more hyped for Astro Bot to play that game than it was for Space Marine 2, which kind of goes against everything that I am as a gamer, because everybody that has listened to this show for a while knows that I love chaos, I love shooters, I love everything that Space Marine 2 looks like it's going to be.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
But then all of a sudden, here we are, just completely sucked into Astro Bot, And we pivoted. I mean, just instantly to, okay, well, we're playing this game and we're covering it. So what do you think it was about Astro Bot compared to Space Marine that made us pivot so hard and so fast?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I think for me, it was the type of game that this was. We have played some heavy games lately. Oh, yeah. Heavy Rain, you know, no pun intended. Black Myth Wukong. You know, so we've had these kind of like serious games that we have kind of played lately. And the mood of Astro Bot for me just hit at the right time.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
I wanted this cheerful, kind of happy, very fun action-based platformer type game to dive into before going straight into Space Marine 2. And I think as gamers, we all kind of feel that. There's a lot of times where people are like, I'm just tired of all the games I play. And it's like, well, have you tried anything different?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
And I've even heard rumor that some people are whispering game of the year contender. What? Game of the year? We'll get to the bottom of all of that in this awesome episode. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, he's the buster bulldog to my rocket, the iron girdle to my loins, the super giant sponge robot thing to my puddle of water.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
You know, play a different genre, play a different style of game that you wouldn't normally play, that kind of thing. So I think for me, it was very much just I wanted that kind of different experience compared to a lot of the other games that I have been playing and that we have covered on the show. It just seemed to hit the right spot in the right time for me.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
So I think that's where my hype level and this kind of sudden pivot going to Astro Bot over Space Marine 2 kind of came into play. Yeah, timing's everything, brother. It does. And to be fair, I am super excited. Right after this recording, I am actually opening up Space Marine 2 for the first time. So I know we're diving into that. I'm pretty pumped for that one as well. I know.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Amazing AstroBot - Gaming Podcast
So we will be covering Space Marine 2 for people that are curious. That episode will come out in a couple weeks. But yeah, we're getting into that one for sure. All right, Ryan. So I remember you... kind of rubbing it in that you were playing Astro Bot. Me? No. Yeah, I know. I know. And then I remember you being like, dude, this game is sick.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. It's another exciting week of video game news and we've got a very special episode for you today. This is our first in-studio recording and we are pumped to be together to talk all the video game news for the week.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Oh, I'm not sure I believe that. I'm not sure I believe that. Guys, we are together. We are recording. This is absolutely a blast. Everybody is in for a great episode. This is something we've been wanting to do for a little while. But it's kind of hard to find a space that is set up for a local recording like this. But, man, this is awesome, guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So I'm going to preface this by saying I don't want to see Bungie fail. And we've said this time and time again. We never want to see a developer fail. We never want to see a publisher fail. There are people behind these video games that pour their hearts and souls into it. We saw this with our interview with Bungie, where these are awesome people. It is their passion in life to do this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But sometimes it's not up to the developers and the teams that are working on the game and stuff like that. So with that said, and with the preface that I am not a fan of extraction shooters... My thinking when I saw this is, Bungie, what the heck are you doing? Why? Why would you copy a genre that is not a popular genre? Like, I had this discussion with my coworker today because he is a...
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Huge fan of Escape from Tarkov. Huge. I mean, he plays more Escape from Tarkov than just about anybody I know. I know that people that love Escape from Tarkov really, really love that genre and it just clicks with them about the high stakes and the shooting is usually good and things like that. but we already have Escape from Tarkov. We already have extraction shooters.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And where I really started to get a little triggered by this is they have copied Escape from Tarkov in so many ways, even from the inventory screen, right? So when you pop up and you loot somebody and the little inventory screen pops up, it looks like a just gigantic mess of inventory. There's 50 objects on the screen and it's like, I don't know what the heck any of this stuff is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
That's Escape from Tarkov. When you go to loot a container, right, and you open it up in most games, the loot's just right there. Oh, sweet, man. Nope. In Escape from Tarkov, you have to wait a few seconds before you see what's in the container because that is mimicking your guy rifling through this container and trying to find loot. And they copied that 100%, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And so my biggest gripe with Marathon is, is where is the innovation, dude? We talk about innovation all the time, right? If this was some indie developer that was trying to make waves in the industry and saying, guys, I am a huge fan of extraction shooters. I'm an indie developer. I made my own. I'm going to make my own. I can get behind that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I can say, cool, it's not my favorite genre, but if this is your passion in life, awesome. Bungie is the studio that gave us Halo. Bungie is the studio that gave us Destiny 1 and 2. And now they have this chance to come out with this shooting game that we've been waiting years for.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And what do we get? We get a clone of Escape from Tarkov. Why? Like, what the heck, Bungie? You're just copying something that already exists? That's my problem, dude. It's not that I don't think that the game looks good, okay? And we've seen previews, and so after the gameplay reveal...
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
We had a lot of streamers and big names in the video game review, you know, thing that got a chance to play it. Right. And they all made their videos for it and they all came out and they said, dude, it's Bungie. The shooting like you were worried about is top notch, dude. It is the top notch Bungie shooting like you would expect. The art style, I think, is preference.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I'm not a huge fan of it, but I don't hate it so much that it's distracting to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I will say that I thought the resolution looked kind of low, but maybe this was just in some of the videos that we saw. You bump up that to 4K, and you get that plasticky look to it, and I think that could actually look pretty good. But the art style, to me, is kind of mad. It's whatever, right? Yeah. But when you strip all that away, you're just left with a clone of Escape from Tarkov.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And this is what all the streamers talked about. All the people that got to play this game and get the preview, you know, and then they were saying, oh, I played Marathon for eight hours and here's my thoughts. Almost universally, they said, dude, the game's neat. It plays incredible. The gunplay is the bungee gunplay that you would expect. but I feel like I've played this game before.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And not only have I played this game before, but this is a sweaty, sweaty, super competitive, high-stakes game that generally tends to put a lot of people off, myself included, because it's not the kind of gameplay loop for me. I don't want to lose all of my stuff because some cracked-out dude sniped me from across the map, you know, and then now I lost all my gear.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I mean, legitimately, I don't like that. I still...
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I mean, and so when I saw this, I just I think I literally screamed like, what are you doing? You have to be kidding me. Like, this is Bungie, dude. Where is your innovation? You're telling me we waited five to seven years for you to just copy Escape from Tarkov and make it look different?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Okay, because I know there's fans of Escape from Tarkov, and they're saying, Josh, quit slamming Escape from Tarkov. It's a great game. It's a good game, man. It is a good game. And again, I think it scratches a very unique itch that a lot of people have. And I will say that Bungie, you know, there's classes in Marathon. So you can play six different classes. There's tanks.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
There's really fast people. You know, there's stealthy people. There's, you know, they have all these different abilities. Ryan, they have a little spider mind guy that I know you loved. So, you know, you can play these classes. They have abilities. There's lots of different guns and loot and things like that that you can get.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, sorry. I can smell it, so that means it's coming past me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But ultimately, it is all going to boil down to the same gameplay that we already have. We already have these games, dude. And so I'm having a very hard time wrapping my head around why Bungie would spend five years developing a game that already exists. And I'm going to end my rant very soon here because I do want to end it on a positive note. I am a huge fan of the cycle.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Now, the one thing that I really love is that this is a PvE VP game, right? You know, you have to worry about people just as much as you have to worry about the environment. And what a lot of people said is the AI in this game is bananas. And you have to worry about the AI almost as much as you need to worry about people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And sometimes they're actually better than squads that you'll come up against. The cycle had that PvE element locked down. Now, the cycle failed because it was an Epic Games Store exclusive, and the devs legitimately ruined their own game with some patches that took away all the fun out of the game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
The movement in that game was incredible, and the devs just tried to patch it out and equalize things, and it completely ruined that game. And when they realized that the game was ruined, they turned it into the Cycle Frontier. Do you guys know what the Cycle Frontier was? It was an exact clone of Escape from Tarkov. Legitimately. So we've been down this road. It doesn't work.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I'm so just flabbergasted, man, where it's like, why is this the route that you went? Make it make sense to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I'm going to ult. I'm going to ult. Oh, man. Guys, we've got some really, really exciting news to talk about. The marathon reveal. Oh, my goodness. The big one. Woo, that's a big one. I personally have a lot to say about that one, so we'll see what's going on there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I hope it's good. Again, a lot of people have said if they can take Escape from Tarkov and they can simplify it and make it more approachable for people, maybe they're onto something here. Because now you have a genre that is dominated by a game that most people don't like when they jump in and play it. And so if you can take that barrier of entry away, I think you could blow that genre wide open.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I just, by its nature, it is a competitive, difficult-to-stomach-when-somebody-kills-you genre, and there's no campaign. They do talk about story building, but you find these little things as you play, and it's like, I don't know about that either.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But before we get into all the news, you know, we've been doing this quick question thing from some of our listeners, our Epic supporters, and we do have another quick question. And I'm just going to start off by saying I freaking love this guy, dude. This guy, you know, he joined our Discord server a while back. He has been awesome. He stays up late to participate in our community nights.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Help me make sense of this, buddy. Get me hyped for this because I want to love this game, but I'm very, very concerned right now about this kind of angle that they're taking. Okay. that's my marathon rant, everybody. So, um, again, if this winds up being the cycle that I always wanted, I can't tell you how happy I would be, dude. And there is a chance that it winds up being that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So we'll just, we'll leave it there. Okay. Take a breath, baby. On to better news.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Hades 2. We're getting Hades 2. Now, Hades 2 has been out in early access for a while. I have held off on playing Hades 2 because I love it so much that it's one of those games I say, hey, I'm not playing it until it's fully released. I want the full peak experience, boys. Same, same. But we did get some news that Hades 2 is going to be a timed exclusive for the Switch 2. Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
How does that make you feel? No, no, no. What is going on here, man? All right, John. As the Nintendo fan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So this is not for people. It's kind of standard.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Born or dust.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And by late, I mean like really late, like 4 a.m. Or early. It depends on how you think about that. But this question comes in from Panzer Faust Ali. Amazing member of the community. We love you, Ali. And the question is, surely you have already talked about that, but I haven't heard it yet, I think. So my question would be, what was the first game you guys have ever played?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I am not a fan of exclusives. I am one of those people that think I just want to play video games, man. Like, you know, I don't like that God of War was PlayStation exclusive for a while. I don't like that Halo was Xbox exclusive for a while. I get it from a business aspect. It makes sense. It's just my personal opinion. I just want gamers to be able to play games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And when you lock one behind a console... I'm just not a fan of that. I can I can understand why they do it. And I mean, let's be honest, Nintendo is the king of this because, you know, you're not getting their games on any other console no matter what. So this is on par for Nintendo. This is on par for what Hades did with their initial release.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I don't like it personally, but it's also a timed exclusive. So it just means I'm going to have to wait. John, you were probably going to buy a Switch 2 as soon as you can get one anyway. I mean, you're a huge fan of it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
If it's backwards, like if it's on both platforms, then that's kind of a little bit less of an issue then because everybody in the world owns a Switch at this point. So is Hades... Okay, so John, on that vein...
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
We went from my wife was super, super excited for the Switch 2 to when I told her what the release lineup was, you're getting Donkey Kong, you're not getting Mario or Zelda, and she went, oh, well, I'm fine just waiting then. And it sounds like you kind of had the same reaction where it's like, give me that hot, hot title and then I'll spend my money on a Switch 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Is Hades 2 enough of a hot, hot title to get you to change your mind on the waiting part?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So according to IGN, the Hades 2 will release on the Switch and the Switch 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And then PC will be like an early access, but I don't really understand that because it's already an early access on PC. So maybe it's just they're not taking away the early access. I don't know. But yeah, it'll be on both.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
um so if we if we go by the hades one it's about a five month gap between when the timed console exclusive part of it so i would assume it's probably going to be about the same i'm just going to wait five months and then pick it up on pc as much as i love oh yeah on pc so all right guys zero company star wars fan
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Star Wars fan. Oh, yeah, boys. So today, literally this morning, we got the announcement that and I believe it's respawn came out and said, hey, we are announcing zero company. This was a code name. They talked about this before, but it had a code name like previously. But Star Wars Zero Company is going to be shown off on April 19th.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Good Naked Gun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
It is a Star Wars turn-based tactics game a la XCOM, a la Baldur's Gate 3. Ryan is like, meh. I love it. Dude, the idea of having like an AT-AT on the field of battle and a Jedi over here and a little land speeder over here and a little group of stormtroopers or something all duking it out in tactical combat. Dude, this gets me so amped. I cannot wait for this gameplay.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
They got the new Naked Gun movie coming out. Oh, I don't know how I feel about that. It's got Liam Neeson in it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I know you're excited, John. Ryan's like, I was real excited until you said turn-based. We got to change your mind on that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But this is a little... I mean, this is more... This isn't like Persona or Final Fantasy. This is like XCOM or, like I said, like Baldur's Gate 3 is a lot more modern game that a lot of people would be familiar with where, you know, you're... It's a top-down perspective. You're moving. You're planning your attack. You're strategizing. You know, it's not like
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So like this is like I want that strategy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Literally rewatched Rogue One yesterday.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
People in our community were talking about it. And I was like, dude, it's been like two years since I've watched Rogue One. So I rewatched it. And then Andor season two is coming out in a little while. And so my wife and I don't have a show to watch right now. And so I was like, would you want to rewatch and or season one with me? And she's like, what do you mean rewatch?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
We've never watched that. And I was like, no, no, I want to rewatch it. And I want you to watch it with me. And she agreed.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
That's like a weekend of Bernie's going on. I mean, I'm the oldest, so I'll just start. Pong. Literally, Pong is the first game that I ever remember playing. I know that sounds terrible, but it was mind-blowing at the time. I have an older brother, and we had the two little controllers with the dial on it that you would spin to move your little paddle.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
It wasn't filled with Jedi and lightsabers and droids. And she was like, okay, that sounds like a little bit better to me. Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited. So anyway, we don't really have that much information about this. The gameplay reveal, April 19th. We will absolutely be talking about this, you know, after that. But I am hyped for that one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Me too. Me too. All right. Another really quick story, because I know we're running long here. This... Dude. Okay. I know that we are mega fans of Marvel Rivals. Yes. We play almost nightly. And John admitted to us before recording, he said, guys...
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
The last community night, because again, for people that aren't aware, we try to get together with our community, which is almost a thousand gamers strong once a week, if not once every two weeks to come together and play video games, because that's just a blast. And so this last week we played Marvel rivals. John was there with us. He was struggling.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Somebody said, John, maybe you should try Scarlet Witch. And it just clicked with John. And he admitted before we started recording, he's like, guys, I think I might actually like Marvel Rivals now. And Ryan and I lost our minds. And we were like, yes! So listen, this is the whole thing. This game does not take itself too seriously.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
The Venom twerking emote is one of the funniest things I've ever seen in a video game. To the point where if somebody says, meet me in the middle of the map and let me twerk, both teams will come together and not kill each other and sit there and watch Venom twerk for like 60 seconds before it's like, okay, now let's kill each other.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I love it. I love it. So I love the fact that Rivals does not take itself too seriously. You know, there has been some, I don't want to call it controversy, but, you know, there's a lot of cake in this game. There is a lot of cake. And, you know, the cake, a lot of people have said, oh, well, when Invisible Woman was released. This is a triple layer cake.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And then now Emma Frost comes out and that's just a German chocolate cake. And so there's a lot of conversation about all of this. But man, if they didn't secretly also buff, this is the story, is that the developers secretly buffed a lot of the male heroes, we'll call them assets, and didn't tell people. And people started to realize, like, dude, Venom's looking kind of kicked up, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Venom was kicked up anyway. And then I've been playing a lot of Captain America, and people have been being like, that's America's butt right there. Is Captain working out?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And sure enough, they came out and they said, yes, we did enhance a few of the male assets in this game to go along with some of the female assets that are in this game. We all had a fantastic laugh, but I mean, this is the dumbest story ever.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
That's exactly the point. Part of the reason is that people that are mad at the female characters, they kind of quieted that by going, well, we did it to the male characters. And now everybody goes, all right, now everybody's happy. You're darn right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Everybody's choked up. Checking out the Venom 2, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
That story was the funniest story I've seen this week. All right, guys. One last story that we've got to get to. And again, this is the Switch 2. I mean, it's in the news. It's a hot conversation. This is what a lot of people are talking about. We actually did touch on this very, very briefly in our Switch 2 reaction episode. So if you haven't heard that one,
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And I remember playing Pong and thinking this was the greatest thing that the world has ever seen. And that was what started my video game passion. I was four years old, literally four years old, man, when I remember playing Pong for the first time. So if anybody wants to figure out that time frame, then you'll know how old I actually am.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Number one, you're missing out on another great rant. But make sure you check that one out. But it has been confirmed. And I love Ryan. Ryan put this story in our show doc. And he literally put in huge capital letters, are you kidding me? And that is, as every Switch owner in the world knows... You're going through those Joy-Cons like crazy. You are getting stick drift no matter what you do.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
You're lucky if it maybe takes six months. I have personally bought brand new Joy-Cons and a month later, a month later, had stick drift show up in those Joy-Cons. This is a known issue. It's not exclusive to Nintendo. I will say that. We get this on Xbox controllers. It's just a kind of a nature of the technology, but it's something that every gamer in the world hates.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And it's probably something that every console controller manufacturer loves because then they sell a whole bunch of controllers to people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
you know and nintendo people have been complaining about this there was a class action lawsuit against nintendo about this very issue and so when the switch 2 was announced and all the specs came out people said you're fixing the stick drift right and there's a technology and i'll be honest i don't know what this technology is because i really haven't looked into it called hall effect joysticks and the hall effect technology will prevent stick drift from ever happening you will never have to experience this again
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And Nintendo said, nah, we don't want to do that, man. You know how much money we make selling these stupid Joy-Con controllers? What do you mean, Halifax? Halifax what? So...
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
My takeaway on this is if you're already charging $450 for the Switch 2, which I think is a very high price, number one, just tack on $50 extra, call it $500, and then announce to people that you've fixed the stick drift issue. You know what I mean? Why do they have to charge more? Because it's probably. Make it work.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But that is the problem. Nintendo is the worst. Now, I will say, and part of this is my 1,800 hours that I have in Rocket League, but I've been through probably four Xbox controllers in the past five years, right? And again, I was playing a lot of Rocket League, so it's kind of expected. We have been through like five or six pairs of Joy-Cons for the Nintendo Switch.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Whatever Nintendo's doing, there's a quality control issue. Maybe it's how small they are, but they are the prevalent, like... you know, when you think of stick drift, you think, Oh, without a doubt, without a doubt.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
How many PlayStation dual sense controllers have you had to replace Ryan because of stick drift? Because of stick drift.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I'm just going to read this. Hall effect sensors have a preset threshold, and when the magnetic flux density exceeds this limit, the device is able to detect the magnetic field by generating an output called the Hall voltage. This force causes a movement of electrons, creating a measurable Hall voltage and activating the Hall effect sensor.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Sounds like nuclear technology to me. You know, I mean, again, I don't know the cost of this. I'm with you that, you know, how do you not make this a thing? But again, if it increases the price of all the joy cons by one hundred dollars. To where, you know, is that a solution?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I mean, you have a class action lawsuit against your company by people because this is such a known issue that people have come together and said, hey, dude. And Nintendo's like, sorry. How many billions we're making selling these Joy-Cons to everybody?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I will say this. I think that there is a compromise solution where, and Razer did this, right? Because I loved Razer mice for the longest time, and a lot of them have a double-click issue, right? And I remember I spent a lot of money on this Razer mouse, and it started double-clicking to where I couldn't hold to zoom because it would zoom in and zoom out real fast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I started doing some Googling, and it's like, oh, this is a known issue with the sensors that Razer uses. What does Razer do? They don't stop making that mouse. They just make a version that has a pro sensor in it that uses lasers instead of whatever the clicker things are. And now you don't have to worry about double click issues. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But then now they charge a premium for it and they say, oh, you want the Razer V2 with the optical sensor? Yeah. Like, okay, well, that's $90, buddy. Oh, you want the old Razer that is probably going to have double-click issues? Only $50. Which one do you want to buy?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And most people go, well, I don't have $90 to spend on a mouse, so I'll buy the $50 mouse, and then I'll just deal with the double-click issue.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So what Nintendo could do is say, hey, guys... Hall effect Joy-Cons. You want them, you're going to pay for them. A hundred bucks. We'll call them pro controllers or whatever you want. I guess I can't call it that because that's a different controller for that. But you can offer the option to people that want it. And if people don't pay for it, then you can go... I mean, we, we offered it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
We gave you the choice, you know, and then that would be the solution to gross. I just feel like I stood up for Nintendo right there. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
All right, guys, listen, we are out of time. This has been, I mean, this has been a blast. If you have ever wanted to watch a video of this one, this is the one to do it because we are all together in studio. Uh, I mean, just having fun to talk in video games is a blast. It is really the best. It is why we do this podcast. It is why we have the community that we have.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
From the gameplay reveal of Marathon to the announcement of Zero Company and Hades 2 being a Switch 2 exclusive, it's going to be a fantastic episode. But before we get to that, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh, and joining me, Marvel Rivals used his physique for Squirrel Girl and the Hulk and said, no upgrades needed, it's Rivals!
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
If you are not part of that community, you are missing out. I mean, we, we read the review from Lucy moon who said, Hey, I was a lurker for the longest time. I, she is very active now. We have gamers of all ages in there. We have men. We have women. I mean, everybody is welcome in this community.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I mean, you know, and so just come be a part of it. We welcome you to lurk and just check it out for a while. but it really is the best place on the planet for gamers. So if you are a gamer and you're like, man, I really wish I had other gamers to hang out with and just talk games. You know, sometimes we get lurkers that pop up and they're like, dude, I got a buddy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
We're looking for a game to play together. Can people recommend us a game? A bunch of people chime in and then they just disappear into the ether again. And that's fine. Like, you know what I mean? Like the fact that they're there is awesome. So link is in the episode description. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
If you would like to ask us a question for the show or just support the podcast in general, you can head over to MultiplayerSquad.com to do that. We have different tiers. Our epic tier gets to ask a question for the show, which we will absolutely answer at the top of an episode. So that's a fun little perk there. You also get a bunch of Discord perks and stuff also.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And don't forget to leave us a review. It really, really does help the podcast. If you're listening on Apple, it's a five-star. Or I'm sorry, if you're listening on Spotify... It's a five-star rating. If you're on Apple, you can actually leave us a written review, and we will read that on the show at some point. That's our guarantee to you. We're getting there. We're getting there. We swear.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
All right. Well, there you go.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
We don't want to spend 20 minutes at the top of a show reading reviews to try to get caught up either because that's not fun for anybody either. All right. That's going to do it for this episode, boys. All right. Until next time, happy gaming. See you. Toodles.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
The world doesn't know what Pong brought to it. You all get us now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Well, and a little birdie told me that instead of a community night, we're actually going to be doing a community morning for all of our overseas listeners so that all of you don't have to stay up till 4 a.m. to play Rivals and Halo with us. So, That's coming here in the near future.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
That's true. We'll be wide awake, man. You know, no tire for us. And then, guys, we do have another amazing review to read. This one comes in from the one and only Lucy Moon. Who had a birthday recently that may have gotten, you know, these guys to dance and twerk, which was also part of the intro for John there also.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But Lucy Moon did leave us a review and it is titled Best Gaming Dance and Podcast. And it says, as someone who has strictly lingered on the true crime side of the podcast world, I decided to branch out and expand my interests. I cannot express how happy I am to have found the Video Gamers podcast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Josh and Ryan have incredible chemistry that leaves me feeling like I reconnected with an old friend after every episode. I look forward to going through the entire backlog and perhaps breaking out of my Discord lurker role someday. Spoiler, she did. She did.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Thank you for all the laughs. And maybe I don't thank you for the countless additions to my gaming wish list. P.S. The indie gaming episodes are a 10 out of 10 addition. You guys are the best.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
i it's funny because you could tell how old like we're we're so backed up on these reviews that it's like lucy moon is talking about maybe not being a lurker you know and then john's with us now doing shows aces i'm used to being excluded from conversation it's just these are like two months old man we're a little behind we're sorry there's been a lot you know just you guys love us that's what the listeners the listeners have stepped up when we said hey man
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Remember to leave us a review. They really did step up. And so now it's our turn to step up and get through some of these reviews also. OK, so one other thing that we need to talk about, guys, before we get into the news for this week is we did cover last week on last week's twig.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
We covered the story that a drug dealer simulator was suing schedule one because they said, hey, this is copyright infringement. We make a drug dealing game. You can't make a drug dealing game. And so we covered that story. And normally we don't go back and say, oh, well, hey, that's what people were talking about.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But in this case, we did get something wrong, or we got actually a little bit news after that that broke that came from the actual developer of Drug Dealer Simulator 1 and 2 that said, whoa, whoa, whoa, I am not suing Schedule 1, guys. Like, I'm happy for these guys. They made a game. It's doing great. Please stop review bombing my game because that's what gamers were doing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And he said, it's not me. I am not suing Schedule 1. So then the news came out that it is actually the publisher of Drug Dealer Simulator 1 and 2 that is not happy about Schedule 1. So it is the publisher that was looking into taking legal action against Schedule 1. The developer of Drug Dealer Simulator had nothing to do with that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And the news has come out at this point that they're not actually actively being sued. They are just looking into a copyright infringement to see if maybe they might have a chance to sue schedule one in the meantime. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But, you know, somebody getting sued, that's not something that should be taken too, too lightly. And we don't ever want to, you know, kind of tell people like fake news or news that isn't accurate. So we've always said we're gamers. We're not industry experts. So, you know, there are times where there are things that, you know, we get the news that that is put in front of us.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And in this case, it wasn't 100 percent accurate. And so we just wanted to clear that up. Because it really does seem like the developer of Drug Dealer Simulator 1 and 2 is like, dude, please, this is not me. And I think that's fair to kind of point that out to people, too. Oh, boy. Big rules this week. Oh, boy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
John, how are you feeling, buddy?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Well, okay. So we... All right. Marathon. Bungie's next big game that they've been working on, which seems like an eternity. I think it's been like five years, but it's funny because I think they announced this like seven years ago.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
It's been in development for a long time. Now... We love Bungie. I mean, Halo, Destiny. I mean, some of the best games that we have ever played have come from Bungie. And we got to interview Bungie. Fantastic people. I mean, legitimately, if you haven't seen that episode, they are awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And so we really appreciated being able to interview them and for the time and the things that we learned about the Bungie Foundation, what it's like to be a developer and that kind of stuff. So mad respect for Bungie for what they've given to gaming. Marathon. We get the announcement of the announcement, right? We got an announcement, guys. We're going to announce something.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I was really wondering how you were going to take that squirrel girl thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
We're going to announce Marathon. Ryan, you kind of joked about this. And so we got a gameplay trailer. We said we finally get the unveiling of Marathon from Bungie. We get to see what this game is all about.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
and what do you think it's a it is a it's an extraction shooter guys it's a game it's a game it's an extraction shooter now john have you ever played an extraction shooter i don't know what the term means okay but probably have you heard of escape from tarkov that's probably the most famous extraction shooter ryan have you ever played escape from tarkov yeah do you like tarkov
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
General pitch for an extraction shooter. Escape from Tarkov is probably the most well-known one. But in that game, you basically... FPS plus what? FPS plus permanent gear loss if you die.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So if you go into a match, you go in with gear, and if somebody kills you, they can take all your gear and you lose it permanently. Okay. So that's kind of the gist. Very high stakes, very tense, very sweaty because people don't want to lose their hard-earned gear.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
If you jump a dude that has some super high-end sniper rifle that's completely decked out, he's probably crying in the corner while you are rejoicing because you got this amazing weapon that you can then try to extract with. So the key is you don't get to keep the gear unless you actually go to an extraction point and leave the match before getting killed.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Usually when somebody is extracting, it alerts everybody on the map that, hey, somebody is trying to extract. And so that creates a lot of tension as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Now, you know, we've had some extraction shooters. There's Rainbow Six Siege. They had their new game, which I can't remember the name of it, but they were getting into the, hey, we're kind of turning Rainbow Six Siege into an extraction game. It's a side shoot. It's not changing the whole game itself.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Oh, boy. And joining us, he was the motion capture actor for Venom's twerking emote, but he prefers if people call him Mr. Fantastic. It's Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Famously, a game that I have talked about an awful lot called The Cycle was an extraction game that I absolutely loved. Now, I will come out and say I absolutely despise Escape from Tarkov, so that type of game is not necessarily up my alley, but I absolutely loved The Cycle. So... We get this gameplay reveal for Marathon.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I want to ask you guys first, what did you think of the gameplay and the reveal that we saw? I mean, it had crazy art style. The gameplay looks interesting. What do you think, John?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But you're not a big shooter guy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I saved myself for last for this on purpose.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Venom can twerk too, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bungie's Big Reveal, Hades II Exclusivity, and Switch 2 Controller Drama - TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Destiny's a beautiful game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
You don't say.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. On this episode of This Week in Gaming, we're discussing Notch confirming Minecraft 2, Assassin's Creed Shadows getting delayed, some news on the Witcher 4 development, and more. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
But we do like to keep people up to date with the goings on in the gaming world. And so that's what these episodes are. That's why we call them This Week in Gaming. It's just to kind of catch you up on things that are going on in the gaming industry. We teased some of it. I mean, Minecraft 2? How is this thing flying under the radar? So we'll talk about that story and some others.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
I don't like this stuff either. And I can't remember the company that came out and said, hey, we're deleting our game because there's too many good games coming out. We don't want to have to compete with that. We feel like it would be better for gamers and better for us if we simply just delayed the game a little bit longer so that people can actually play this without competition or other games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
And then I'm pretty sure that was a vow. Actually, it was a vow.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And then it was like, well, Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 came out and said, hey, we're going to release right around then too. And then it was kind of like, dang it. Well, oh, well. This is absolutely nothing to do with needing more development time. This is 100%. We don't want to go up against Avowed and we don't want to go up against Kingdom Come Deliverance 2. I don't fault you for that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Of course. I'm not saying that the reasoning you're delaying the game is wrong. In fact, I think it's probably smart because this is, in my opinion, their last ditch effort. The problem is, is that when you give this fake PR speak to say that, oh, well, we're implementing feedback from people and we want to make it more ambitious and engaging on a day one experience.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
It's like, dude, just be honest, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
You know, the other thing is, if Assassin's Creed Shadows is not the game that some people are hoping it is going to be, and I know you and I have talked about this and we're not convinced that this game is going to be like the savior for Ubisoft. If nothing else, you can go, oh, you know, man, this game would have been so great. It would have been so good except these other two games released.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
So I'm not buying it. It's just another thing that irritates me about Ubisoft and the way that they kind of can't just relate to gamers directly. So I don't know, man. Fix your problems, Ubisoft. They're not. They're just trying to hide them.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
But at the same time, you know that you have an inferior product if you are not willing to go up against Coke and Pepsi. Exactly. You know what I mean? Because you're like, look, my soda is pretty good. But it ain't like Coke or Pepsi, man. So it's like, I don't really want people to realize that my Coke, my soda is not as good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Oh, boy. All right. I mean, we've probably kicked that horse enough for this episode. All right. Let's take a quick break. And then we're going to talk about a game that I know we're both excited for. And that's a game called Skate. And we're going to talk about that right after this short break. All right, Ryan. Mr. Skater Man. Let's play. Mr. Christ Air 360. Bro, I wish I could do a Christ Air.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
But before we get into that... Ryan, we got somebody to thank, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Ollie. Oh, man. Benny Hanna. Benny Hanna was a good one. Benny Hanna and the Christ Air was good. Yeah. Oh, man. See, it's all coming back now, buddy. So we're just calling it Skate. It is kind of a skate for those people that don't know. But they the company that's making this has come out and said, hey, we've been making this game for a little while now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
It is going to be free to play, which I think is kind of an interesting take on a game like this, because normally this would be like you just pay 40 bucks for it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
But it is an EA game. It is going to be free to play. They're just calling it Skate. This is the spiritual kind of successor to the Skate franchise. They are actually doing their console play testing is happening, which is this is kind of big because it means the game's far enough in its development that they're getting people in there and they are there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Well, whatever could it be for? It could be for them being awesome and making this podcast possible to the world. And that is a fine gentleman by the name of Technophile who signed up to support the show with epic status. Epic! Going the extra mile to say, hey, planet Earth, You need a good video game podcast. And I am the hero that's going to make that happen.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
You know, they're letting them test these things out. I watched, admittedly, I told you right before we started recording, I said, dude, I don't know that I've actually seen gameplay for this prior to now. I'm familiar with the series and I loved Tony Hawk, you know, their games. So I'm,
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
I'm pretty excited about this, Ryan, but as our resident skater, dude, um, why don't you, uh, why don't you talk about this one a little bit? I mean, you're excited for this game, you know, why, and what's your hopes for this?
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
My only concern with this game is, is the world, have they moved past that like gameplay loop? You know, like we had the Tony Hawk's remake that came out. I remember being very excited about it, picked it up the day it released, played it honestly a pretty good bit. But then just kind of went like, I've been here before. It's kind of the same.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
You know, it's what I remember from like my teenage years and, you know, chilling with my buddies and stuff like that and trying to, like you said, trying to put together like the biggest combos and high scores and stuff like that. And, you know, we kind of see this a little bit where I am, you know, famously a very big fan of the Twisted Metal series and that kind of vehicular combat.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
And I really want to see anytime somebody's like, what's the series you want to see remade? I'm like, Twisted Metal. Give me more twisted metal. But it's like sometimes the world just kind of moves on. And my only concern, and this is not slandering the game at all, but my only concern is, has the world kind of moved on from the whole skate, sim, skating type game?
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Now, I will say that the gameplay that I saw looks very good. There's really good camera angles. Like you said, it's a little bit more of the sim type skater versus the arcade skater like Tony Hawk's would be. It doesn't mean that you're not dropping 20 feet into a half pipe or launching over some ramp and doing a cool backflip or something like that. But that's really my only concern on this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Now, this game is going... It's been in development. You said it's been in development for four and a half years. It's releasing into early access after four and a half years of development, which does make me kind of go like, is this not ready after almost five years of development? Yeah. But it's also been 15 years since Skate 3 came out. So it's been a long time, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
So I really do want to see this game succeed. I know that, like you said, I'm not a skater, but I love Tony Hawk skating games and I love watching the X Games and stuff like that. So it's like I have a kind of like an innate appreciation for it. So I am excited, but I'm also a little cautious as to like, is the world ready for this?
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Also, I hear that's the next Marvel Rivals character is Technophile, hero to the world for supporting the show.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I'll be honest, I couldn't name a skater like a popular skater that's from the last five years. Like I've been out of that kind of mindset for a while. And like I said, it's kind of my concern with this too. But if you're on console, and I don't know why they're snubbing the PC crowd here either.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
But if you can actually sign up for the console playtesting right now, because they're getting people signed up for that. Ryan, we've got a few more stories. We're going to kind of speed this up just a little bit. You know, this has kind of become the Marvel Rivals podcast over the last few episodes. You know what? I got no shame, man. Because the rest of the world is loving Marvel Rivals.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
And we love it when people are having fun together and they find video games that they can play. We're seeing people grouping up on our Discord server and playing. We have played. We're playing nightly. I mean, it's one of those things where Marvel Rivals has taken over the world.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
As kind of an update to that, they kind of finally came out and they said that Marvel Rivals raked in $136 million in its first month. Dude. That's a lot of money. Now, I know people go, well, $136 million. That's in one month. One month. And that was before season one even released, dude. I mean, I know I bought the Battle Pass. I did, too. You bought the luxury Battle Pass, apparently.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
They are predicting that Marvel Rivals will actually exceed a billion dollars in revenue in its first year, which means that's a whole lot of cash. Yeah. And that also means that's a whole lot of popularity. So, yeah, they're predicting the annual revenue to be about $1.36 billion. Wow. This is what people and all these developers are chasing. We saw it with Concord.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
So thank you, Technophile, for supporting the show. If you want to be quite possibly the next superhero that is going to bring our smooth, buttery voices to the rest of planet Earth... And possibly space, because I hear they're kind of broadcasting this out into the universe at this point. We're in the cosmos, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
So with all these live service games, right? This is why all these companies want to make these live service games and why a lot of them with. But if you hit.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
$1.36 billion, dude. That's a lot of money.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
That is a lot. And I mean, a company, that's what all these developers are hoping for. They did it with Marvel Rivals. I don't see it going away anytime soon. Season one hit, they reported, Steam actually reported over a half a million concurrent users.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
That's not counting consoles. That's just Steam. So this game is massive. It is worldwide. If you're not at least trying out Marvel Rivals, jump on board. We keep saying this. We don't get anything out of that. They're not giving us a cut. We just want gamers to have fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
I mean... But just give it a shot. Come play with us. Come join our Discord server. There's people that are playing. There's people of all skill sets and all experience levels with this. So have fun. Have fun with other gamers, man. That's one of the things we absolutely love about gaming. And it's one of the things we love about Marvel Rivals is it's bringing everybody together.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Honestly, I can't think of another game that's done this since Helldivers 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
I mean, it's been almost a year now since Helldivers 2 released. And this is... The only other game that I can think of where it's, like, a huge portion of gamers have kind of come together to, like, enjoy a video game together. So... Speaking of really good video games, Ryan, we don't really have to dive into this one, but... CD Projekt confirmed that The Witcher just turned 10.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
So happy birthday, Witcher 3. One of the best games ever made. I love it. Anytime we see somebody say, hey, I'm diving into The Witcher 3 for the first time. And we always go like, oh, man, you're in for such a ride. Oh yeah, by the way, just make it past the first like six hours. Get to the Bloody Baron. I promise you. Yeah, and then you'll understand what the heck everybody's talking about.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
But they also did confirm that right now they have over a hundred devs working on The Witcher 4. They also went on to talk about how they have had some of the same quest designers that have worked for the company through Witcher 1, Witcher 2, Witcher 3, and are now working on the Witcher 4.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
I think it's probably more like a warning than anything that says, like, hey, these are the people that you guys might come in contact with, so stay away. But if you want to help support this podcast, you can do that over at MultiplayerSquad.com, where you can sign up for as little as five bucks a month.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
And we have always said that the side quests and the quests in Witcher 3 are some of the best that gaming has ever known. And for me, knowing that the same people... are working on Witcher 4 just gives me a ton of confidence. Now, Ryan, you said something just disgusting and mean and unruly to me before we started recording.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
And I want to see if you're brave enough to say that on the air about Witcher 4. What? That you're a little hesitant, that you're not sure it's going to be fantastic.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
I have a lot of faith in Witcher 4. I also understand the thinking because there is that fear that it's like, please don't mess this up, man. Please don't. Honestly, I think the risk almost outweighs the benefit, except that if it's fantastic, Witcher 4 will be a worldwide phenomenon at that point. But yeah, it's super risky, but I also am glad that we're getting it. All right, Stellar Blade.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
The developer for Stellar Blade, which I have not played yet. I'm very grateful to hear that it's coming to PC in 2025. I will absolutely be picking this game up. But this is a really cool story because when a company sees success... We'd like to think that they pass that success on to the people that made it happen, man, not just the CEOs and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Well, that's exactly what happened with the Stellar Blade devs. They saw success in Stellar Blade, and what they did is they gave... a PS5 Pro, and a $3,400 bonus to all 311 staff that they have working for them as a way of saying thank you and as a reward for the success of the game. Now that... is a really cool thing to see in the gaming industry, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
We don't see that with EA. We don't see that with Blizzard. We don't see that with these big AAA developers. We see that, what do they get? You get laid off instead. Thanks for making this money.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And so this is just one of those quick, happy stories that we wanted to talk about because rewarding your staff and saying, hey, good job, I cannot think of a better way to keep your talent working for you than to show them that they're appreciated. and giving people a PS5 Pro and a big fat stack of $3,400 is just a really cool thing to see.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
But it really does go a long way for helping us keep this content flowing, covering video games, providing news for people, and helping Ryan buy the latest Battle Pass in Marvel Rivals so that he could have his Moon Knight skin that he was really excited for.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
So kudos to Shift Up, who is the developer on this. They had a good year. Stellar Blade was not the only reason or the only game that they released. Apparently, they have some action RPG mobile game that's doing better than Stellar Blade's doing, but they said that Stellar Blade is still consistently selling pretty well. So
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
You know, when other companies are giving people a pizza party.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, it shouldn't be, but yeah. So we did want to end this episode on just kind of a happy note with, like I said, other developers, take a page out of this book, treat your employees well, let them know that they're valued and you're probably going to get better employees that are going to make better video games and stick around for the long haul there as well. Simple as that. Yeah. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Well, that does it for this episode of This Week in Gaming. Thank you for hanging out with us. Thank you for chatting video games. It's the reason we do this podcast is we are gamers just like you. Gamers love to talk about games. They love talking about, you know, this kind of stuff. And so this is why we do what we do.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
If you enjoyed this episode and you haven't done it already, make sure you follow us. Click that plus button, that follow button, that subscribe button in your podcast app. That way you get all our episodes the day that they release. If you want to be like Technofile and support the show and go the extra mile, you can sign up over at MultiplayerSquad.com for as little as five bucks a month.
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Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
You get some awesome perks in return. You get ad-free episodes, you get early access, you get cool Discord perks, and you get a shout out on the show as well. But yeah, that's it for this week in gaming. Until next time, happy gaming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Oh!
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
You spendy person, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You didn't buy one battle pass. You bought the luxury battle pass.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
All right. Well, hey, you know what? Like I said, we do this for research.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
We had to know if those skins are good, man. We're doing it for the people. Yes. Invisible woman skin is good. The invisible woman? Yes. Yeah. You can't see her, though. How do you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Something like that. Oh, my goodness. Oh, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Here we go. I did almost have a different introduction for you because we're going to be talking a little bit about some really cool Stellar Blade news as well. But then I mixed it up right at the end because I was like, Ryan was a skater. He's going to know all these terms.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, so, all right, well, let's get into it because we actually have a lot of news to cover. So the first one, and I did tease this at the intro, is Notch, who is the creator of Minecraft. Yes. Filthy, stinking rich guy, by the way, at this point. You and I were chatting before we actually started recording. And fun little tidbit for people that are fans of Minecraft.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Notch sold the rights for Minecraft, a.k.a. Mojang, the company, to Microsoft for $2.5 billion, with a B. With a B. With a B and then promptly just disappeared into obscurity while the world made Minecraft the most sold video game of all time, I believe. It's up there. This one's weird, man. You ever try to look something up on the Internet and you can't get like a straight answer? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
And joining me, he's been practicing his slappies, his boned ollies, his wallies, his power slides, his pre-wind spins, and his grind bump outs.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Oh, yeah. All the time. Try to look up like the video game that's the most popular, most sold video game. And it's like half the time you're going to see Minecraft. The other half of the time you're going to see Tetris. And it's like, I don't know if one actually has like more monetary sales, but one has like more actual like number of sales or I don't I don't know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
You know, we're not accountants. We're not mathematicians. But what we do know is some Minecraft. Yeah. Notch goes onto social media and he creates a poll that says, hey, what kind of game would you guys like to see me create? And he came back afterwards and he basically goes, hey, I just confirmed Minecraft 2 to everybody. And so I'm making it. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
And like, I don't understand how this is not just all over the place, man, because I think this is one of those cases where people don't really believe it until they see it kind of thing. Um, Now, I'm going to read the tweet. So this is actually from Notch himself. And it says, honest and legitimate request for feedback for once.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
The new game I'm passionately working on is currently set to be a traditional roguelike mixed with a tile-based first-person dungeon crawler a la Legend of Grimrock or Eye of the Beholder. But... I, but then I got to thinking that maybe there are people who like my work, but might not share my taste in retro nostalgia and would prefer for me to make a spiritual successor thing to Minecraft.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
And I mean, sure, I'd take that cash. So market research, I'd be happy to oblige either which one would make you happier. Now this got 286,000 votes. This was not like 14 people voting on this, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
81.5% of people said, make Minecraft 2, Boomer. Do it now. It's literally the option. And so, number one, that's an overwhelming majority of people that said, dude, we want Minecraft 2. But so then Notch comes out and says, hey, based on this, I... I guess people actually want me to make another game that's similar to the first one. And he said, I'm loving working on games again.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Now, in a follow-up tweet to this poll that he put, he comes out and he says, I basically announced Minecraft 2. That's the first sentence of this whole tweet. And it's a long tweet, so I'm not going to read the whole thing. But... Like, I know that you and I are a little bit older, and I know that any parent that has kids who love Minecraft kind of begrudgingly go, ah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Is that your feeling for Minecraft, Ryan?
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
I don't know, to be honest. And I do know that he was clear that it cannot be like a mimic of Minecraft because there's some agreements that were made in this $2.5 billion sale. So he can't just come out and make another Minecraft and then call it Minecraft kind of thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
As we have seen, you can copy Minecraft to a certain degree and then call it whatever the heck you want at that point. But he did kind of expand on that a little bit. And he did say, hey, if Microsoft wants to bring me on board and have me actually make what we will call Minecraft 2, I will 100% be happy to do that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
I'll even cut them a share that is well beyond what the norm for the industry would be for that just so that we can do it. So he's kind of well aware of the legalities and stuff. But one of the things that he did confirm is that he said, I absolutely am making a game. This isn't I'm thinking about it. This isn't, hey, wouldn't it be cool if Minecraft 2 ever came out?
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
I mean, he confirmed that he is back to making video games. And so we'll see what happens with that. It's funny because you think you'd see a little bit more chatter about this online.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
I think people are kind of going, well, we need to see something. Give us a concept. Give us a trailer. Give us just an idea. I mean, I've always said... As much as we don't like Minecraft, part of it is that it just kind of looks kiddy. But you give me a really spectacular looking survival crafting game with the creative and the... Oh, my goodness. What's the mode?
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Adventure mode or whatever the real mode is. Survival.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
I was like, what the heck is this mode called?
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, exactly. So it's like... I mean, that could be pretty fun. So we'll see what happens next.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
christ air that was one of my favorites dude yeah the christ was great yeah you're just like you're just flowing in the air just spinning yep oh man that was great oh well if people didn't know we're gonna be talking about some skate here in a little bit yeah but welcome into the show everybody today's episode we finally got some video game news ryan we do it's it's it's uh been a long time coming so i'm excited
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
that would be good if they can do something like that but yeah like you said we'll see what happens um definitely in its infant stage but uh man what it it's not like he's uh short on funds so he can definitely go in you talk about a game that's hard to follow up right like we're getting more and more like half-life 3 rumors and you know they've said hey at this point what do we have to really gain by making half-life 3 because unless it's like the best game ever made people are going to be disappointed minecraft 2 i feel like kind of falls into that category where it's like it
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
better be better than the original at this point so i don't know we'll see there's nothing out there as far as anything visually to see other than his tweets which you can check out um but yeah we'll see again minecraft 2 sure you're excited if you uh are under the age of well and like i mean you were you were a huge rocket league player like if they come out and they say we're making rocket league 2 it's like oh
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
But we'll see. And then there's all the Minecraft spinoff type games. There's the Minecraft realms where people... It's almost like Roblox where people have made a thousand different games within Minecraft.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
So it's kind of almost like an infinite platform as far as creating other fun spinoffs and stuff like that. All right, Ryan. Oh, man. This one, I don't know why. I sound like, okay, everybody that knows me knows that I have a little bit of a dark side. You also have a little bit of a dark side. We have made it very apparent that, you know what, you give me a choice of a lightsaber. I'm going red.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
I know myself. You know yourself. It's like, dude, we're good dudes. We're family friendly. A lot of good things. But at the same time, everybody's got a little bit of a dark side to them. And part of our dark side is just kind of digging at Ubisoft a little bit. And, you know, it's like, I get that this doesn't necessarily, this is not good news, okay? I'm going to preface this by saying that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
But at the same time, there's just a teeny little part of me, Ryan, that I just kind of go like, ha ha! I told you. Poor Ace. Oh, man. Well, what's even worse is we've converted Ace. Ace is like, Ubisoft is dead to me now. I'm like, what have we done? Okay, so we do have some news on Assassin's Creed Shadows.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
We got an official kind of tweet that said, hey, Assassin's Creed Shadows is now releasing March 20th of 2025. Okay, and so it was originally set to release on February 14th, which is a month away. There was no issues with development at this point. There was none of this stuff. It wasn't like, oh, we may not make this deadline.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
You know, we're really struggling to get this game released or any of that stuff. I mean, it was it was.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
And then they tweeted this. I'm going to read it for people just to give some context to this because then we're going to dig at them a little bit. And it says, Dear players, we want to extend our heartfelt thanks to our incredible fans and dedicated teams for your unwavering support since our announcement in September. to further refine and polish Assassin's Creed Shadows.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Since November, we've been thrilled to share our progress through gameplay overviews and the overwhelming excitement has truly inspired us. Each week, we brought valuable feedback from our community. While we've already made remarkable strides, we believe a few additional weeks are needed to implement that feedback and ensure an even more ambitious and engaging day one experience.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Apparently, all the news outlets take this really extended break from Christmas to mid-January where they're like, dude, we don't feel like working. We don't want to talk about video games. There's no video game news. And we've been making the best of it. I got to say, we've had some pretty darn good episodes lately.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
accordingly the new release date is march 20th of 2025 we remain committed to delivering a high quality immersive experience fostered by ongoing dialogue between our players and development teams we know you're eager to learn more about assassin's creed shadows and we're excited to share that more updates will be coming your way very soon dude um ryan Let me just ask you. Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Do you believe that them delaying this has anything to do with implementing feedback and ensuring an even more ambitious and engaging day one experience?
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Are there any other games that might be big title games that are releasing? I don't know. Right around the first, second week of February? I don't know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Minecraft 2 Confirmed, AC: Shadows Delayed and Witcher 4 Updates - Gaming Podcast
I mean, a company like Ubisoft that's on its last leg and is probably saying Assassin's Creed Shadows is really our last chance to steer this ship in the right direction. Do you think a company like that and that's betting everything on Assassin's Creed Shadows probably doesn't want to go up against two major releases that are both looking like they're going to be way better than this game anyway?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
He was such a father figure to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Okay. Now, knowing what you know, did you think or anticipate or believe that Gustav comes back later in the game?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
John, did you think he was going to come back? Gustav, like, in the story, did you think there was, like, there's surely no way this guy's dead dead?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So you don't know about Verso at first. When Gustav dies...
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
That's kind of what I thought, too. Legitimately, yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So at this very moment in the game, because this is the first jaw dropping moment. And I love I love when people start playing and they come and guys, I picked up Expedition 33. So all talking about it, they start playing and they're like, dude, this world's beautiful. The combat's great. Like these characters are fleshed out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
You instantly care about them from like 20 minutes into the game because they do a masterful job of making you care about these characters. And then you just kind of smile and you're like, oh, man. And then you see it and then they come back and they just go, just finish act one. And then we get the spoiler tag so nobody knows.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And then it's like, of course, we're clicking it because we're like, we know what happens. And then it's just like, what the heck did they do to my boy? Like, I can't believe it. Like I haven't cried in a game like this in years and all that. And it's just like, we just know what's coming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And it's hilarious to me because without a doubt, people are like just beat act one and they always comment on it. And that's why we're doing this episode, man. Like, honestly, because again, people need to talk about it. They need to like share these moments with people, which says so much about the game itself. So, okay. So Gustav dies. We meet Verso. Do you like Verso more than Gustav?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow expeditioners, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Today is the day. Today is the day we enter the monolith, put a stop to the Pinterest, and end the gommage once and for all. Today is the day we go full spoilers for Expedition 33. That's right. There is so much that needs to be talked about that we're heading back and talking all the things we couldn't talk about before.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Ryan doesn't like Gustav, so I'm guessing so.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I will say I did like Verso's character more, but I think it's because it came with the mystery of like, who is Verso? What is he doing here? He's got that look like he knows something that he's not telling people. And you just kind of have this glimpse of like, this guy knows more than he's saying, and he's going to be my route to kind of unlock a little bit more about the story in this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But John, did you like Verso more than Gustav? The same? Indifferent?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
we have done rust a couple times yeah we have we've done rust and then we did like a return to rust like a year later um but i think oh take it back deep rock galactic we play deep rock galactic and then we had somebody go legendary and say hey i'd actually like you guys to play this again there's been a lot of changes so deep rock and we were like don't twist my arm well it's in rarefied air i think
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I'm with you on that. I mean, I do think this is where Mayel leaps to the forefront of the storytelling. And it's like, hey, she's I don't want to call her the main character, but she's kind of the main character at this point. You know, Gustav was the main character. He dies. It becomes kind of now about Mayel.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And if my timing is right, that fight where Gustav dies is the first glimpse we get at the kind of black and white scene with the girl that looks like Mayel. We don't really know who she is at first. She's, you know, ultimately she's Alicia. But, you know, if I remember right, that's that moment where we get that kind of snapshot and maybe just a few seconds of like that black and white world.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And it's like, wait, what's going on here? It looks like Mayelle, except she's horribly disfigured. She's got this mask on that kind of thing. And you're like, wait a minute.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So, okay. So, you know, this is, I will say this as act one's over, we're in act two. This is where I started getting like these, these spidey sense of like the Pinterest is not what the Pinterest seems in this game. And I remember even going to work because I, you know, I was the only one that was playing it at this point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And my, my buddies were asking me about it and they're kind of talking and saying, what, what makes this game special and all that. I'm trying to explain the story spoiler free a little bit. But I kept saying, I have a theory about the paintress. I don't know why, but I don't think that the paintress is bad. Like, I think that, you know, they're all going to try to kill her.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But for some reason, I feel like this game is going to have this twist or something. Oh, boy, does it? But to me, the twist was the paintress is not this evil creature anymore. Maybe she's trapped there. Maybe she's misunderstood, that kind of thing. But did you get any of that kind of hinting at this point in the game too, John?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Absolutely, dude. She is. She's got her head down on her arms, which, like, she looks like she's crying. Like, legitimately, that's the pose is if somebody was sitting on the ground crying...
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I mean, that's just the way my brain works because it's like when you start to tell a story like this, and again, this goes to how masterful this game is because, you know, John said it too, like they give you these nuggets, like a second playthrough of this game, you would pick up so many little glimpses and hints and things like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
That it's like in looking back at it, you're like, oh, my gosh, dude. Like, again, even the pose of the painter, she looks like she's crying. She looks like she's mourning or something. And then it's like, why would she look that way? If she's this super evil being that's just wiping out an entire age of people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
You know, so I kind of approached this and I remember bragging about it going, ah, here's my theory, dude. The Pinterest isn't bad. They're going to have something where, you know, she's a good person or something like that, or she's been corrupted and now they have to go cure the source of the corruption or something like that. Um, I, I was a little bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Oh, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Okay, so let's skip ahead a little bit in Act 2, because ultimately you wind up working your way towards the Monolith. Somehow your ragtag party of people is getting closer and closer to actually facing down the Paintress. Along the way, we meet Monoko as a kind of mid-game party member that you come across. I did not really care for Minoko that much. He is very strong.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I'm very attached to my party already. We've got CL, we've got Mayel, we've got Luna, we've got Verso at this point. I'm used to these people. I'm not sure that I want to just play this new character that is also weird. He's a guest role. I loved his sense of humor and his voice acting and stuff, but I kind of
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
his foot fetish yeah his foot fetish yep you know but it was kind of like I've already attached to these these characters I've built my party on them I don't want to thrust this new character into the party and try to learn him and all that even though he is pretty darn strong in his abilities and the whole like absorbing abilities from other creatures that you come across and fight I thought was pretty cool but I just didn't really jive with him that much kept him in my party for like an hour or two and then I was like yeah I don't
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So here's the thing with this. I know because we did our initial deep dive where we gave our impressions of the game. We kind of broke the game down for people, what it's about, that kind of thing. I don't know that I have seen more people in our community pick up a game and play it together at the same time as this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
He's very strong.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I just... I don't know. I didn't feel the bond to him, I guess.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So, okay. Okay. Dude, this could be a two-hour episode, man, legitimately. Okay, but what I want to do is, to me, one of the standout moments in Act 2, and Ryan, I kind of sent this to you because I knew you were done playing. Yeah. The axons. OK, so, you know, the big thing is you can't get close enough to the Pinterest without taking down this magical barrier that exists.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
The only way you can do that is if you get enough of the chroma to, you know, forge this weapon that can pierce this veil. And the only way to do that is to take out these two axons. Right. So I'm like, oh, this is cool. I love me a good boss fight. I went to Visage first, and this is where, Ryan, I think this is right when you were like, hey, I'm done playing this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And I was like, dude, I just saw one of the coolest looking levels ever. It's nothing but a bunch of faces. It almost came across as like a horror level, which I thought was incredible.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And one of the things that we know from experience and we are seeing from our listeners and the people in our community is this game, you absolutely need somebody to talk to about this game after you beat it. I mean, it is literally like I can't tell you how many people have been like, I just beat act two. And they're like, dude, DM me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
You have the option of like just going straight to the Axon and fighting him, or you can like weaken him by going and taking on these three masks that are like anger, happiness, and sorrow or something like that. I wanted to see everything, so I went and I fought those. I thought those fights were really neat. You get to this massive boss fight with Visage.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
He's on just a different scale as far as this gargantuan creature than anything else you've fought in the game at this point. I got my butt kicked like multiple times in a row on this one. I also had a moment where I was like, I am the dumbest gamer alive because the first time I fought him, he summons these masks through this mirror and these masks wreck you and put all kinds of debuffs on you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And the very first time I attempted this fight, I broke one of the masks. And then it was like the mask is unable to go back into the mirror. And so it just breaks. I couldn't figure out how the heck I did that. After about five attempts, another mask pops out of the mirror and I noticed that it has like a glowing eye. And that's when I was like, wait a minute. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Ryan even knows he's like, yeah, you just shoot it. And I had this moment where I was like, wait a minute. And I shoot the two eyes and then it's like the mask kit returns to the mirror. And so it breaks. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like I am the biggest idiot in the world right now, man. How did I not know this?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So then after Visage, you go to Cyrene. That's the order I did it in. Did you do the same order, John?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I'm going to say this, dude. The Siren fight and the level was one of the coolest levels I have seen in a game. I don't know, dude. It's like you get there, you just – came from this horror level. There's this, everything is dancing. There's this gigantic axon that is like a ballerina, just like slowly dancing off in the distance. The music is beautiful.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
They're talking about how she weaves wonder and all this stuff. And I am just like in this zone. I make it to the boss. Cause you see her dancing off in the distance the whole time. Luna is reacting very strangely and the music. And I'm just like, this is crazy. Crazy to me, man. I know she's going to kick my butt. But darn it, this isn't like the most beautiful scene at the same time, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So I make it to the boss. I'm standing right at the platform before you fight her. And I just vibe out for like five minutes straight, dude. No lie. I took a video. I sent it to Ryan. I said, listen, I know you're done, so I'm going to spoil this. I said, I don't know why this scene is hitting me the way it is hitting me. But legitimately, I put my controller down.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I need to talk to you about what happened, you know, or where the story is going and stuff like that. So this is your warning. Officially, if you have not played Expedition 33, do not listen to this episode unless you are a weirdo like Ryan. And you're just like, dude, I'm never going to play this game. If you're never going to play Expedition 33, number one, shame on you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I sat there for five minutes straight and I just watched Cyrene dance. She's trailing the flower petals. This beautiful music is playing. She's freaking as tall as a skyscraper in the sky. And I just went, this is one of those gaming moments for me that I will remember forever. I talk about it, right? We did this in our Best Gaming Moments episode.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Flying over Hogwarts on my Hippogriff watching the sunset will stick with me forever, dude. I don't know why. It's a random thing, but I totally vibe to that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Senua's Saga the fire level even though you know that level was creepy and oh my gosh like there's just these game memories and that watching Siren dance knowing that I was about to just fight her I'm telling you man it was just it hit in a way I wasn't expecting dude I didn't even play the game and I was vibing I went and I watched it and I was like okay I like this like I was vibing with it too so poetry in motion totally get what you were saying on that
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
It really was, man. I don't, I still have the video on my phone. I ran out of show. I was like, look at this boss fight. And she's like, oh, that's really pretty. You're weird. You know, just like, I don't know, man. But, um, so let's, let's jump to the end of that too. This is where you finally make it to the monolith. You're there. You come up to the paintress. Oh, my God.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
She's larger than life. I mean, she's huge. This is one of the things I didn't realize initially in the very beginning of the game is this is like a freaking hundred foot tall creature. We meet Maman for the first time ever. And you're like, who the heck is Maman? Renoir shows up again. He's begging you, please don't do this. I'm not going to allow you to do this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
This is where the story really, really took off for me. I mean, it was fantastic before, but this is where it became Oscar-worthy, quite possibly one of the best stories I've ever seen in a game. Or anywhere. Like legitimately, dude. Is that kind of where it hit for you too, John? It did.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Way deeper.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
All right, so I'm going to try to give Ryan the cliff notes on this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I want in. So here's the thing, dude. At the end of Act 2, I finished Act 2, which I thought a lot of people think this is the end of the game. You're fighting the Pinterest. This is what the whole game is about. We've been getting these little glimpses and snippets of this other world with Alicia, right? So, Ryan, you saw the girl that looks like male. She's disfigured. She wears a mask.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
that world that we're seeing is the real world in this game. Okay. Like the actual real world, what we discover in the end of act two, as you get to the painters and you start trying to fight her is that there, there is actually this family that Renoir and Verso and Mayelle are a part of in the real world. Okay. Now males real world name is Alicia.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And so the girl that you see that is disfigured is Alicia and Who is Mael, but in the real world. And in the real world, this family, what was the name of that family, John? Can you remember?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Number two, shame on you again. And then number three, then you can maybe understand why this game is so great. Because we're going to spoil everything. everything in this episode. So, I mean, I don't know how much more I can warn you. Spoiler alert, big flashing red lights. You know, I just, I don't want anybody being like, I can't believe you guys spoiled this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
The DeSondre family is Verso, Renoir, Alicia, and the mom, who is Mamon. And they are painters. Oh, yeah. they actually can paint life into these canvases. They have, they're like gods almost in a way where it's like, whatever they paint comes to life and they can create these worlds and things like that. And so you get this kind of reveal that there is this real life going on.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Apparently there is a faction called the writers. So this is maybe DLC stuff coming out where the writers have either lied to or betrayed the painters. And that's what caused the house fire. that disfigured Alicia, who is Mayelle, right? Which is why she wears the mask. So in real life, Alicia is disfigured. She got burned. She can't speak because her vocal cords got burned.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
She's horribly disfigured. She wears this mask because she thinks she's ugly at that point, and everybody's very sad about what happened to Alicia and Verso. Does Verso die in the fire?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Oh, uh, Nako?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
You know, and it's like, dude, we told you. It's going to be in the thumbnail, you know, for this episode. So that's on you if you didn't realize it. But yes, we absolutely need to talk about the story, the characters, where this game goes, because people that have played it,
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Ryan's slowly fading. He's like, you lost me here. So...
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Let me cliff notes this. Let me cliff notes this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Tragedy strikes the DeSandre family. Okay. Verso dies. Because Verso painted the world that you were playing the game in, they go into that painting because it retains a piece of Verso's soul. Right. Okay. So Verso kind of lives in this painting. So they come into the painting because they want to be around their son or the memory of their son.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
people that have beat it completely understand and they're going to be amped up like we are right now and honestly I'm kind of curious to see if Ryan has like a heart at all you know to just be like okay guys like I didn't know this is what happened in this game like turn based combat but oh incredible one of the best stories ever told in a video game Ryan listen I'm just here so I don't get fined yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Eventually, they spend too much time in the painting. The mom kind of starts to lose it. She refuses to leave the painting. Renoir goes into the painting to rescue the mom who doesn't want to leave. Renoir goes, I'm just going to destroy this world so that you will have to come back to real life. The mom goes, no. And this is the conflict that they have in the game. The mom is the paintress.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Renoir is Renoir who's trying to destroy the world. So Renoir would gommage everybody instantly if he could, except the mom is protecting everybody. So the mom is the paintress. This kind of goes into the twist, right? Where I was like, I don't think the paintress is bad. So the mom is the paintress, but she is trying to hold back Renoir gommaging everybody.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Because they're equal power, she can't hold him back completely. So every year, she kind of has to let Renoir win a little bit. And that's why she stands up, wipes the number, and then all of those people of that age gommage. It's not the paintress doing it. It's Renoir doing it. So that's the big twist, number one. The other twist is that the paintress is not actually bad.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
She's actually there to protect everybody. And then along the way, we get the outside family is crazy and dysfunctional. But here's where it gets really weird because now you start to go, well, what about the beach? If Renoir is trying to gommage everybody, why is he killing the expedition that's trying to kill the paintress? Right. Well, because those are painted versions of the outside people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So the painteress is actually the one that paints the in the game Renoir who kills the expedition, because it's like, if you kill me, everybody dies. Right. So now you have a lean making painted versions of Renoir. You have Renoir making painted versions of himself. You know, it gets really weird, man. It gets really crazy. It gets deep, though.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, basically because their bodies out in the real world are kind of like frozen.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And you get the thing that says, like, her sister even says they're fighting still. Like, they're fighting in the painting and all that stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Oh, that's wild. This is, like, the big stuff. Now, I will say this. At the end of Act 2, when you start to get kind of this narrative and everything, I got lost, dude. Like I was like, okay, I thought I knew what was happening with the story, but now we're jumping to real world stuff. Like there's the Pinterest, there's the mom and the dad that are fighting.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Renwa keeps talking to Verso and he's like, Verso, you know why I have to do this. Verso's like, you don't need to do this. Mayelle doesn't understand what the heck's going on, but she keeps meeting this girl that kind of looks like her. And so you get this thing where like there's stuff going on. And I just, at the end of act two, I just went, I don't understand this story at all.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Those are the real world representations. Okay. Where they're missing the face and they're kind of shadowy. That's the real world representations of people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, there's a little boy that you meet that you talk to occasionally with a little cap. Yeah, that's Verso. That's the real-world Verso as a child that painted this whole world that you're in. So you're getting this glimmer of his influence on this painting that you're actually inside of this whole time, dude. Dude, what? I'm telling you, man, it gets bananas. This ain't all of it, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Okay, so let's skip ahead to post-Act 3 slash epilogue because we're running out of time here. You I think these acts kind of serve to fill in the blanks and go, you're not dumb, Josh. We're going to kind of spell some of this out for you. But without just laying it all out, like I kept waiting for the explanation because you go back to camp, you're talking to people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Verso is kind of saying, yeah, Ren was my father. You know, you're kind of putting the puzzle pieces together here, but you're still not completely sure what's going on. Mael kind of starts coming into her own power and stuff like that. You get these new abilities because now she realizes that there's a real world person that can interact.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I do have a question for Ryan, but first, a very brief bit of important housekeeping. Huge shout out to Kakarot and Jake Snyder for signing up for rare status. Thank you to both of you for supporting this podcast. Man, guys, we've been thanking a lot of people lately, man. We have. I mean, legitimately, it has been amazing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So this is where you start getting some crazy abilities where she can influence Chroma and like do all this stuff. Fast forward to the end of the game. You fight Renoir again. This is the fight where I keep playing that music, where I keep going, dude, this rock song.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Okay, here's why, Ryan, because you know what's going on now. Right. You made your choice. Verso is like, we have to stop Renoir. He's going to wipe out this whole world. We don't want that to happen. So Renoir says, OK, this is it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
If you won't listen and let me kill this painting and save our family, then I'm going to have to kill you because I'm going to do whatever I'm going to do to save our family together. And it would only kill you in this painting. It wouldn't really kill them in real life, but it will cause them to come back out. And this is – he doesn't want to force this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
He really wants people to make the choice on his own. This is also why Renoir is so relatable to a certain degree, why he's such a good, like, villain because it's like, dude, I kind of understand this guy's point of view. Just want my family back, man. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And so then the boss fight comes, and that's where this music kicks in, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And the music kicks in in this epic freaking boss fight where Renoir's standing there. He's got his cane with him. Actually, I think he even looks like the curator at that point because it's like his real-world representation. That freaking rock soundtrack starts roaring, and I'm just like, here we go, man!
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I can't tell you how many times I listened to that song, but the visual is there where you're like, okay, this is, this is going down. Incredible boss fight. He resummons the axons to that fight. And the skill is fights bananas. Okay. And then you, you finish the boss fight and this is where the game throws one of the craziest moments at you because you've, you've beaten Renoir.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Verso and Mael come together, and they start talking, and they basically disagree, right, with each other, and you have to side with one of them. And you have to act, and the game puts it, they're facing off against each other, they're kind of arguing, and the game says, side with Mael, side with Verso, and whoever you side with, you know you are fighting the other character to the death. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So these people that have been at my party for 40 hours, it's like, wait, you guys are going to fight to death? And you have to decide which one you're going to choose. And this is another moment where I just went, no. No. Like, no, you can't make me choose.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I chose Mael as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I'm going to lay this out for Ryan real quick, right? So we both sided with Mael. I went the whole game. I'm playing as Mael. She's in my party. You're bonded with her. This struggle that she's been through. She's seen her parents die. She's seen everybody die. She's an orphan. These expeditions have been slaughtered in mass. I mean, this poor girl has lived a life that nobody, nobody would want.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
You finally get to the end of the game, and it's like she can finally put everything behind her. So I pick Mael. I fight Verso. I kick Verso's butt, by the way. It goes to the ending of the game. Everybody's back. Gustav's back. Lumiere is back to its height of everybody's around. Sophie is back with Gustav. You see them. They're all dressed up. Everybody's going to this opera house.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Life is amazing. Ciel is happy. She's got her husband back. Luna is happy. She's got her boyfriend or whatever. SGA is still there, and he's all being SGA and all this stuff. They go into this opera house. And you see Verso at a piano and he looks older and kind of dapper, almost like Renoir just a little bit. And he looks at this piano. Everybody sits down. It's this big, happy occasion.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And then Verso looks at this piano and he kind of hesitates for a second. And he's like, I don't know how to play this thing. And I'm about to give this concert in front of everybody. Right. Because Verso was the musician of the family. And so it's like, well, this is the natural. And he looks down, and you can tell, like, he doesn't know why he's there or what he's doing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Like, he's like, I don't remember how to play music. And that's when it goes to Mayelle, and it kind of gets dark and, like, black and white and grim. And you see Mayelle's eyes kind of, like, do this painter's thing where she's creating this world on her own at that point. And so she is creating all of this stuff because you're still in the painting. Wow.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And so she is living in the matrix in this false life that she wanted with all of her friends back and her family and this stuff, but it's all fake. And so she paints this glow in her eyes. She paints Verso right then and there to be like this master musician. And then he starts playing the piano and then the game cuts out. And you're just like,
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I don't like that ending. This is not the way it should be. You know what I mean? Like, you should live in the Matrix. This is all fake, man. And dude, I get chills still thinking about it, but this is what this game does, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
The other part that I will say is when you beat Verso, dude, one of the best voice lines I've heard in a game is Mael is holding him at this point while he's dying and starting to kind of like gommage away. And he just goes like, I don't want to live this way. Like, I don't want to live this way anymore. And it's like, dude, it's the most like touching.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And he's just kind of repeating that over and over males crying. And it's like, it's this most touching, like heartfelt, like no moment, dude. Ah, it's crazy, man. I didn't, I didn't do the verso ending, but my, my John, you did. And it's like verso ends the painting, but then that's the end of verso too. Like what? So what happens in the verso ending again?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But you've killed this world where all of these people exist. They're sentient. They're self-aware. They think this is their life. And you've ended all of that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I mean, the people in the painting, you're playing the game in the painting. All of those people, Mayelle and Luna, like Gustav dying, like all the parents that have died and been gommaged in the struggle with all these expeditions. Like all of those people think that's real life. I mean, it is their lives. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
What, what an incredible freaking game, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
It's, it's, it's part matrix, but dude, it's, it's bananas. And the thing is, is that you, I mean, we've just explained all this in an hour at a very truncated, short kind of thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Dude, it's crazy to us. I mean, we've always said we're just a bunch of dudes that freaking love video games, and we love talking about them. We talk about them the way that you would with your friends. because nobody does that. You know, we've always felt like it's either like industry, like being very official or, you know, ooh, I'm an expert or I'm a critic or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
When you discover these things naturally in the game and you get those chill bump moments and you get the, oh my gosh, like I might cry, you know, like I'm holding back tears because of this realization or this revelation that, you know, male and verso facing off his enemies all of a sudden, and you have to pick one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Like that's a freaking, like, that's so hard to do getting the ending that you're like, wait a minute. Like, this is not happy. This is not the way that I wanted this game to end. Like all of it is just a gut punch, dude. It's one of the most masterful stories I have ever seen. in a video game. And they claim that the movie has been greenlit on this already.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
If they can pull this off as a movie, dude, I will be absolutely, I mean, just ecstatic and honestly amazed because this is true. This ranks up like red dead too. We always talk about, it's one of the best stories in a game that you can like, this is up there. I've said it before. This is up there with like the best of the best of the best stories in a game, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Crazy to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Oh, boy. All right. We've already gone way too long. I mean, listen, if you want to talk about this game, come to our Discord server. I mean, it's all we're talking about right now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
It's really cool to see people be like, I beat Act 1. And then you go, yeah, how do you feel right now? And they're like, dude, I don't like this. And then they go, okay, I just beat Act 2. And then you're like, you know what's coming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I mean, it's this, this is one of those games, man. It's an all timer, but we, we just had to talk about some of the story stuff and, and, and just talk about spoilers. Cause it's been bursting out of us, man. So like I said, come to our discord, chat with us about this. You know, that's going to do it for this episode. I'm all emotional again, man. Just talking about all this stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I'm freaking amped up and I'm remembering all this. I'm going to go blast that song again to the final Renoir boss fight. Cause man, there's what a moment, what a moment in a game. But thanks for hanging out with us, everybody. Again, the link to our Discord server is in the episode description.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
If you want to be like Kakarat and Jake Snyder and support this show, there is a link in the episode description to do that. It really does make a world of difference. Make sure you follow the show so you get all our episodes the day that they release. And if you haven't done so, take a second to rate us five stars.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
If you're on Apple, write us a review and we'll read some of those on the show as well. That's going to do it for this one, boys. Until next time, happy gaming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And honestly, a lot of the podcasts that I have checked out get way too political. And dude, I don't play games for that, man. I play games to escape and relax and unwind. And so we always just said, dude, let's talk about games. Like we, I mean, we are friends, you know, let's just turn on some microphones and record that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
People that know me know I ain't no expert, man. So, all right. Well, listen, let's get into this, guys. Ryan, I promised a question for you. Yes. And I'm going to make this hard on you because I know your answer otherwise. Apart from Red Dead 2, what video game has the greatest story that has touched you or that is memorable to you that you have played?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh, and joining me, he might not have loved Expedition 33, but he's about to have his mind blown because he has no clue where this story goes. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
No prep.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I know, I took Red Dead because you were like, you would just be like, Red Dead 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Okay. I mean, that's a great pick. Even though I didn't finish it, I know how the story ends. It's got the twists. It's got the characters you care about. It's got those, oh my gosh, moments, like those sorts of things to it. I'm very curious because we're going to break down all of the story and spoilers for Expedition 33, and I'm just I'm kind of curious if it matters to you at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Not that you're going to go back, because we're staring down Doom the Dark Ages right now. We're staring down Elden Ring Night Ring coming out at the end of this month. So it's like, I don't expect that you're going to go back to Expedition 33. But I am very curious if knowing what you're about to know makes you go, okay, I kind of get it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
How far did you make it? I don't remember. I'm pretty sure you said you beat Act 1.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So you got that kind of gut punch from the end of Act 1.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
All right, well, listen, we promised full spoilers. Here we go. John, Ryan, you're going to have to just jump in when you're like, guys, I need a second to cry for a second here. But, I mean, we've already talked about how incredible this game is. We're not going to rehash that. I want to start off with the very first, oh, like, oh, moment in this game. And to me, that moment is...
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Well, I mean, well, actually, let me back that up. The first old moment is the beach when you land on the beach, but they kind of showed this in the trailer a little bit. So this is not such a spoiler, but like the expedition lands on the beach. We meet Renoir for the first time. I got to say, number one, I love the styling. I just love the look of Renoir. He's like this dapper gentleman.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
He comes out. He's got the little bit of white in his hair. He's a handsome fella, too, dude. You can't deny. There's something about Renoir coming out looking all dapper and handsome. And then just freaking murdering people in this expedition, man. To me, that was the first, like, what is happening moment in this game? Was it the same for you guys?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
It was the first glimpse for me where you went, these guys are not going to pull any punches. This is not a story where they're going to dumb it down for the lowest common denominator or to try to make it appealing to the widest range of people or something like that. John, you touched on something in our deep dive, and this is the first time where we hear the cane
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Dude, Ryan, if you listen, I know it's fun for you, man. But man, if you've ever been more wrong in your life, I don't I don't know how to be honest. But with that said, the story in Expedition 33, we're going to talk about. And if you don't think this story sounds amazing, well, then we need to check.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Oh my gosh. People that, you know, people that are listening to this. Cause again, if you haven't played the game, don't listen to this episode, but dude, that I think there's not a gamer out there that doesn't hear that cane thump and just that sound and can hear it so perfectly in your head, dude. Oh, my goodness, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So, all right. So, everybody, you know, this is early on in the game. Everybody gets slaughtered. You get separated. You know, you are Gustav. You're trying to find Mael. You know, this is where things go from here. I mean, you know, there's not a lot of, like, spoilery type stuff at that point. I mean, you ultimately find Mael. You have Luna. Luna. I can't, I, my brain wants to say Luna.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Okay. Like part of half the time my brain goes Loon.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Okay. So I'm just gonna, is there anything other than the end of act one that jumps out to you guys? Spoilery wise that, that we need to talk about.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
yeah i the only other thing that i'll talk about and and i i'm pretty sure this is act one but the i'd love to know when you're going to the gestural village you you start to meet the like sakapate sakapate yeah i can't even say it sakapate or something there you go that's it and it's like you start seeing the sakapate and then you're like oh okay well these are fun to fight you're fighting these weird doll like wooden doll things that that just love to fight yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
all they want to do is fight man and then you get to the oh you must face down the ultimate and then you're like oh and this guy was actually like somewhat tough i mean he's firing cannons at you and you're like okay like i i feel like that was my first glimpse of like a legit boss fight in this game um and it's just such a weird like juxtaposition of like these really kind of cute like puppets
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
It's like all they want to do is just fight, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
All right. And joining us, the man who shed tears with me, the man who grieved with me, the man who understands the emotional journey and toll this game can have on you. It's John.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So let's skip ahead because we have a lot to talk about at the end of this game. I don't want to spend too much at the beginning, but you get to the end of Act 1. Oh, my goodness. You meet Renoir. He comes out of nowhere. You're slowly making your way further and further towards the Pinterest. Renoir comes out of the blue. He's trying to talk to Gustav. And then it happens, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
He just wrecks Gustav. I mean... And this... I gotta say, this was the moment where my jaw hit the floor. I literally paused and just stared at the screen for a second. And I was like... Oh man, this game is going to go places that I did not expect. They are not afraid to kill off main characters. This Renoir dude, who the heck is this guy? Like, why does he care so much? What did you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
Breaking Down Expedition 33 – Full Spoiler Dive into Story, Bosses, and The Ending(s)? | TWIG | Gaming Podcast
What did he like? He kills Gustav, man. He's the freaking main character in the game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
And I was like, you know. We talk about it all the time. I think it's one of those things where, especially with indie developers, soundtracks are incredible. People talk about Hollow Knight, Undertale. There's a ton of indie games that you can say, hey, the soundtrack for these games is second to none.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
And it's almost become a thing where it's like, is having that unique soundtrack or that unique sound will just say... Is it something like indie developers like I don't want to say go fishing for because I think that undermines it. But is it something that like they prioritize to say, dude, like if we're going to build this game, we need the best sound to go with it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Because I feel like there's such a gap in between like what you hear in a triple A title versus what you get with like an indie title and the like the original soundtracks that go with that. And so I think as gamers, we just recognize like, hey, indie games have phenomenal soundtracks. This is kind of what goes hand in hand with them. But I don't think we understand like the process behind that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Or is it like a direct and concerted effort to go, man, we have to have this really unique sound to go with our game?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Nothing is quite as fun as finding a game that gets you excited, a game that just looks incredible. We get that hype meter going, the hype train starts rolling, and the rest is nothing but the pure joy of anticipation. Well, boy, do we have an episode for you. But first, some introductions are in order.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, absolutely. So personal question here. This may be just for Josh, but are we going to be able to get the full version of that song at some point?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Like what? Yeah. I don't know how that works. I don't know if like when you, like when you partner with like John, you know, and Rachel, like if it's like, they, they kind of go, no, we have like artistic, like license to that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
I just like, once the game's released, like, you know, am I going to be able to actually like download the full version of this song or, or purchase it or something like that?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, we have to take a quick break real quick, and we'll be right back in just a second to talk a little bit more about Graft. All right. Sorry. We're back, guys. Sorry for the detour there. I get excited, man, and I got to talk about some of these things. I mean, not that I'm not excited to talk about the rest of this game, man. So we're talking Graft.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
You guys released the trailer for this. It's got this incredible art style. It's got this incredible sound to it. We got some gameplay, which I think looked really, really dark and atmospheric and just has... The vibe is kind of, for me, what instantly jumped out on that one. But like, how would you describe graph to people? Like, I mean, you guys are the ones that are creating this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
So it's like if you had to describe this in, you know, 10, 15 seconds to somebody that maybe hasn't seen the trailer yet, how would you go about actually describing this to someone?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
RPG elements in general. I'm a sucker for progression. So anytime somebody talks about like getting better in a game or like, you know, getting these upgrades or these abilities. Now, obviously, the name of the game is Grafton. We've seen some of the stuff in the trailer that you guys are leaning into. So we'll talk about that in a minute, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So like, I mean, the like, I guess, you know, with you described it as like this kind of dark, like cyberpunk horror, kind of like survival game, in a sense, like, is that something where does your personal preference, like as gamers come into play where you go, man, you know, like, like, for instance, I don't like sim games. Like, I've made this very clear. It's just my
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
brain doesn't work that way i don't want to work in my video games i know people love sim games and that's no shade to anybody that loves them but like for me i want escapism i don't want to work when i'm playing video games so like if i was a developer or you know thinking about you know starting a studio or something like that the last thing i would want to do is be like oh let's work on this sim game guys because
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
You know, it's just not my style. So with the kind of vibe in the cyberpunk horror aspect, is that like do you guys like that style? Is this like what you said, Mike, where it's like, hey, gamers are really into this right now. You know, obviously, we're a game studio. We want to make games that people want to play. And cyberpunk horror seems to be real popular with people right now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Me too. Me too. My parents didn't understand horror's not going to bother him at six years old.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
I love mythology, and so for people that don't know the ship of Theseus, the simple premise here is if you replace parts of something over time to where eventually the parts are all new, is it still the old ship, or is it something completely different at that point? They look so happy right now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
It's one of my favorite subjects. Yeah, no. They're like, we came on the right podcast right now. Hey, we're gaming nerds, man. What do you expect here?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
That's awesome. So you guys have actually been working together since 2011. Yeah. Oh my goodness. And you guys are still friends? I want to wring this guy's neck every other day. Like, I don't know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Does it flow? Do you get to this, like, hey, here's the endpoint, and it's laser-focused from here to here, and everything that we do is to reach this endpoint? Or is there more of that creative, like, hey, we have this goal in mind, but it's really going to ebb and flow and change and evolve over time? I guess that's... Again, as a gamer, I think we tend to think...
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Every studio knows exactly what they want to make, right? Like this is the vision you have and you are going to laser focus on that vision until the very end when it's like, okay, now this vision is a reality. I think as gamers, we think that I, I like, there's a part of me that goes, well, the reality is nothing goes according to plan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
So, OK, so this is a question and this might be putting you on the spot just a little bit. But like one of the things we do is obviously we play games. We talk about games. We do some game reviews on this podcast as well. And for us, one of the things that we always try to bring up early for a game is what we call the hook. Right. And so, you know, like to give you some ideas. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
So I want to give our listeners because I'd actually love to dive into like what like what the different roles do. I mean, executive producer, creative director, you know, I mean, that kind of stuff. But before we get into that, you did mention Battletech and Shadowrun. So just to give our listeners kind of an idea of the pedigree that you guys actually bring with you here. I mean, you know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Like recently Astro Bot last year came out. And as amazing as that game was, the one thing. Yeah. Like Ryan and I were talking and it's like, what is the one thing that stands out to you? Like, it's an incredible game from all around, but like what stood out the most to you? And we both said the audio in that game is second to none.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
You know, we recently just covered Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, which just released. And, you know, as incredible as that game is, it's, you know, it's like, hey, what's the hook? And we kind of went, it's the immersion. I don't know that another game has done what they've done since Red Dead Redemption 2. When you play Red Dead 2, you feel like you're a cowboy in the Old West.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
And with Kingdom Come, you feel like you're a medieval knight living in 1409 Bohemia or something like that. So... And I know it may be a little early for this, but in your mind, what is the hook for Graft as far as that? What is the thing that you think will stand out the most about the game?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
I'm reminded of like the Nier series where it focuses on that, almost like that deep thought, right? Like you're playing this game and of course the game is fun and it's got all these different aspects.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
But when you finish playing like Nier Automata, it's the, you almost start to question like the, you know, the humanity or like you said, this existential like thinking, you know, and how that there's this like deeper underlying meaning to a lot of what you do in that game. And it really gets you thinking at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
And I mean, I think there's a reason that the Nier series is so beloved by a lot of people because it's one of those games that you walk away from and you kind of go like, man, this one hit hard.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
So I don't know if we can if you if you can't answer this question, that's fine. But do you guys have a tentative like target release date for for this game at this point?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Not yet. OK. And that's good because, you know, it used to be and I am very guilty of this, that when a game got announced and it had a release date set Cyberpunk 2077 famously, I took off of work seven different times for that game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Because, you know, because it kept getting delayed and it kept getting delayed and I got really, really frustrated and I had to keep going back to my work and telling him why I didn't need this week off after all. I just want to play the game. I know, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Just kind of starting at the earliest here, Shadowrun, you mentioned that. You guys have Shadowrun Returns, which released in 2013, Shadowrun Dragonfall in 2014, Shadowrun Hong Kong in 2015. And as gamers, we do look at review scores and things like that. You guys... You guys have not made a bad game. They're killing it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
And so, you know, it's one of those things where I, you know, as an older, stubborn person sometimes, I like to think that gamers are starting to realize that it's ready when it's ready and that rushing something does not accomplish anything that anybody wants at that point. So we always say, take your time at this point. We really just want the best game imaginable at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
So I want to switch gears a little bit because something that you mentioned early on, Mike, and one of your kind of memories for your kind of history was this kind of crowdfunding, this Kickstarter that you guys had for Shadowrun Returns. Um, and it's, it's one of those things where you don't really hear about this anymore, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Um, and it doesn't seem like it's a thing that really exists for like indie studios anymore. So, you know, is there, is there like a reason for that? Like, is it just that it's just not something that was ultimately successful? Was there like a situation that maybe kind of got people a little shy with crowdfunding or why is that not such a thing for indie studios anymore? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
I mean, the review scores for these games range from 83% for Battletech, which is your newest game, which released in 2018. I mean, who doesn't love mechs, right? I mean, 83%, 88%, 89%, 86%. You guys are crushing it, man. Thank you. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so, yeah. So, you know, like I said, you guys have been doing this a long time. You obviously know what you're doing, but yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
I have to ask this question because, again, we're gamers. We're lifelong gamers. We think like gamers. When you talk about crowdfunding, the topic of Star Citizen, that's the first thing that comes up with most gamers. It's the largest crowdfunding that's ever existed. There are a lot of gamers, whether they're right or wrong, that go, oh, well, this whole thing was a big scam.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
It's 10-plus years later. There's no game yet. Then there are people... that are actively playing star citizen. I have actually played it. Um, and things like that that go, Hey, you know, if you take your time, there is a game here. They're developing some really crazy technology that I think will change the future of gaming with like server meshing and some of that stuff. So that's,
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
But as developers that have done the crowdfunding thing, like, what are your thoughts on that? I mean, you know, I kind of hinted like, you know, did did this make people shy? Because, you know, here's this thing that makes the news all the time and people go, well, we still don't have a game. So no to crowdfunding. Or is it like. I mean, like you mentioned, Mike, development's expensive, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Can you give us, I mean, we're, we're just gamers. We, you know, we don't really understand a lot of the kind of titles and things like that. So Mike, you mentioned that you are the executive producer for hair brain. So what, what does it actually entail for somebody that doesn't understand that title at all?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
So I'd love a developer's perspective on Star Citizen and that kind of whole ordeal with the amount of money that they've gotten from it, but also the complexity of development. And do those kind of align? Or is there maybe something there to gamers saying like, hey...
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
I, I know that they are shooting for, to release their kind of squadron 42, I think in 2026. Um, and I think that will tell the story. I think we can all conjecture until then kind of thing, but I think it's going to be one of these things where either a lot of people are going to say, we told you so, or they're going to come out and say, we told you so, you know? Um, So awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Well guys, listen, I know we're running low on time here. I, we, you know, we, we respect you guys time that you're, you're given to this episode and thank you so much for joining us. Let's, you know, we wanted to talk about what it's like to be an indie studio and kind of, you know, you guys have what, eight people, I think, uh, at harebrained right now. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
And you guys are two of those, right? So you have, uh, you know, six other guys that you work with. Right. So, uh, let's just do this. Let's, let's have a fun little game. I'd like to ask some quick fire questions to you. And again, you know, the mind of gamers, right? Where we, I think a lot of times we go, Hey, we think this, and we don't know if it's true or not.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
So it's like almost like a little game of myth busters, if you will.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
I want to I'm going to make a statement and then you guys can just say, yeah, no. Or like, yeah, there's some truth to that or something like that. OK, so how about this one, which is indie studios are great because you have 100 percent creative freedom to do whatever you want with your game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
So I think that kind of then ends up being...
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Another quick one here, guys. Yeah. This is another kind of myth thing here. So if you get a huge hit and you are an indie company or an indie studio... And your game just blows up. You are set for life at that point. I mean, you know, eight guys at your studio. Graft just takes over the world. You sell four million copies of it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
They're good to go. They're good to go. Let's do this. So, I mean, you mentioned Stardew Valley. It's a single death. That guy, he's got to be swimming in piles of gold at this point, you know? So, but is that, and again, this is kind of like a myth thing that I think a lot of gamers have where, you know, maybe...
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
No, there's a lot of pieces of that pie that get divvied out to like Steam, for instance, and they take a cut and this guy takes a cut and you had to take a loan to do this and you had to do that. So is that like the dream and the goal or is that a little bit of a myth there?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. No, yeah. That's a good, that's honestly a good thing. You know, that's a good example there. So, I mean, as gamers, I can tell you that we want to manifest this as well because it's like, then we get an awesome game to play and talk about and, you know, all of our friends get hyped and, you know, there's, there's nothing quite like that game that shocks the world.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
And then you, you, you get to be part of that conversation and that kind of wave and, you you know, gamers love that stuff, man. You know, I mean, you know, you're at work, you're thinking about going home and playing this game. You're talking to your buddies about it. I mean, that's just a good time for everybody at that point. So, all right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Well, listen, guys, this has been absolutely incredible. It's been a blast to just chat with both of you about this and get excited about Graft and, you know, what you guys are doing as a studio and just kind of some of the insight that I think gamers don't really know. I mean, again, these are all things that we,
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
We think we know or we question, but to hear it firsthand is honestly really entertaining, number one, but very educational as well. And so we're going to go ahead and wrap up this episode. But we have one more question for you guys before we do that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And then Chris, for you, what is it exactly? And just remind people what the title is and then kind of what that entails for you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
And that is, is there a game coming out in 2025 that you guys are super excited to play or that is at the top of like your hype meter for a game that might be coming out this year?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
I'm with you, Chris. I'm with you, man. I'm so curious about this game. So Ryan doesn't like turn-based games. I hate turn-based games. And then our partner, John, is just... It's so...
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Josh and John are very... Expedition 33 was the best answer that we could have gotten.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Ryan is on his own Island. Cause he's like, I don't care about this game. And then it's like, John and I are both like super excited for it. So this is great. So awesome. Well guys, I mean, thank you so much for, for just giving us your time and taking the time to hop on our podcast and chat graft and chat harebrained studios and just, um,
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
you know, be awesome and answer all our dumb questions and just hang out with us, man. This has really been awesome. Our listeners are going to love this. I guarantee you when this episode releases, there's going to be so much chatter about graft and go wishlist, you know, now go.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
We're going to include a Steam link in the episode description to make the listeners' lives easy so that they can go wishlist this as well. I know that's one of the best things that gamers can do to kind of just show support and kind of get you guys up there on Steam as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
We'll be following up for sure, guys. So, Mike, Chris, this has been awesome. Thank you guys so much. That's going to do it for this episode, everybody. Until next time, happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
I am your host, Josh, and joining me... It's not every day that he starts humming the song to a trailer or it gets him smiling like this. It's Ryan. Dude, I'm just over here raving. Where's my glow sticks? Oh, man. People are going to be like, what? Raven? What is this episode? And joining us, they're the men of the hour. The guys who helped make one of the best trailers we've seen in a while.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
You know, and so it's like, but you got to have those people that can kind of say, hey, we can take these different skill sets and we can kind of combine them and kind of see this vision as far as like an end product kind of goes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
And it sounds to me like you guys are the ones that kind of help that vision of what is this end product and how do we deal with not only the people that are creating the game, but But Mike, like you said, sometimes the other aspects from outside, like the business side of things and stuff like that, is that kind of fair to say?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Sometimes you feel like that person that's spinning the eight different plates kind of thing, and you're just going, please don't let any of these fall down. So, well, OK, so one other question and then we have to get into graph soon, guys, because I'm about to burst on this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
So just with the history that you two have with working together for so long and through a series like Shadowrun and Battletech and stuff like that. Is there a moment that stands out to you guys from your kind of careers together and making these games that just kind of stands at like the pinnacle was, you know, I mean, like my brain just kind of goes to like releasing your first game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
That's got to be like the most memorable experience. But is there something like that with your kind of history together in development and stuff that kind of stands out to you guys?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I was going to say, I bet this is one of those, like, it's hard to pick one, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
The masterminds behind Graft. It's Mike and Chris.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the, we're about to make a big game. And then Chris, what about for you? Is there something that stands out for you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
How are you guys doing? Oh, absolutely. We are so excited to have you guys here. We are going to be talking about this Graft game that you guys are developing. We're going to talk about this trailer that's got us hyped. We'll talk a little bit about what it's like to be a smaller indie studio as well, get some insight into what you guys do and all of that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
Okay. All right. We've danced around this long enough, guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
I'm an excitable guy. Okay. So we have to talk graft. And the first thing that I have to ask you guys, because, man... This just really just was a huge hit for my brain right away, is the music that you guys have in that trailer. Number one, I'm a fan of EDM. I like electronic music. I grew up in the 80s and 90s.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
I don't know what causes that, but oh my goodness, I don't know that I have ever vibed with a song in a trailer before. Like I, we're going to get it. Don't get, don't worry. We're going to get into the art style and all the other really cool stuff with this, but I'm watching this trailer and I am instantly like, oh my gosh, this is like a banger, man. And so I do what any normal person does.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
I Shazam it. I don't know if people use Shazam anymore, but that's like on my phone. So I'm doing Shazam and it's listening and I'm like, oh, it's not going to find this. And then it finally pulls it up. And it goes music from the game graft. And I went, what are you talking about? So like, how does one go about like finding somebody that number one can make an absolute banger of a song like this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
But like, I would love some insight into like, did you know the person you wanted to go to? Was this just like, guys, we got to blow this out of the park. We need, you know, we need somebody that can make this really awesome song. But like I, How did this happen, I guess?
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
So this is going to be a really fun episode. So thank you both for joining us today. And then, you know what, I'll tell you what, just for the listeners, can you guys give us a little bit of background about like kind of what you do? You guys both work at Hairbrained Studios and what it is that you actually do there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Getting Down with Graft - Gaming Podcast
It was so good. I mentioned it before we started recording. We watched thousands of trailers, man. And a lot of times we just go, yeah, OK, or whatever. And it's very rare that like a trailer jumps out at us like that one did. And I mean, again, we're going to get into the rest of the trailer being awesome here in a second. But the music was just the thing that like instantly blew me away.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
I mean, this is one of the biggest releases that has come out in a while. And we have been playing it almost every day, but it's a monster of a game and we are not ready to do the deep dive just yet. So we're going to keep playing. But dude, we had such an insanely cool opportunity to actually talk to one of the game designers.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 is taking the world by storm and it's the hottest release so far in 2025. Highly anticipated with a fantastic reception, we've been playing it but we aren't quite ready for the deep dive yet. What we do have is something incredible for you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
It's a big game. I think I'm 20 some odd hours in, and I feel like I've just scratched the surface so far. And there's probably a lot more to do.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
People love just Googling the answer to something right away instead of figuring it out. And it's like, dude, we spent so much time on this and you're just Googling the answer.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
One more question about the release here, Andre. And then I'd love to know a little bit more about what you do on this. But I don't want any specific games or anything like that mentioned. But when you get close to the time to release a game... I have to think a studio probably has a good idea whether their game is really good or not.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
We've seen some games release and then they come out and they're just terrible. And that's just the nature of some games. And so it's like, did you guys... Did you know that this game was awesome? Was there a fear that it's like, oh man, we don't know how people are going to like this? Like, I just guessed that you guys were like, dude, this game's awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
and kind of get the inside scoop on the development of the game, what it's like to release a game like this to the world, and the anticipation and nervousness, a behind-the-curtain look at game development. I mean, what an awesome time this was, Ryan. We had it all.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Interesting.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
We talk about games all the time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
I love that thinking.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
No, I love that. I know exactly what you're talking about. And we can feel that we can tell.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. It really has been great so far. We'll talk a little bit about, you know, people are kind of comparing this to, like, games like Witcher 3. Um, which is, I mean, that's about as high of a praise as you can get, uh, you know, in, in our opinion. And so we're seeing some very, very positive, uh, response to it. And I know as gamers, we've been gaming our whole lives.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
I mean, you know, we're, we're, we're older guys and we've been gaming and it's like, this game's something special, man. It really is. Like I am absolutely enthralled with it. I love playing it. It's really cool to see like the passion that you guys have for it also. Yeah. So Andre, I want to ask you because it's not every day that we get to talk to a game designer.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
And you've talked a little bit about what you do on that. And I think as gamers, we kind of go, oh man, there's all these roles or these jobs in gaming that just sound incredible. You mentioned voice actors earlier. Every gamer is like, oh, I'd love to be a voice actor. And it's like, oh, if I could be a game designer and stuff like that. So it's like... Give us a little bit of a peek.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
We all think you have a pretty awesome job, but we also know that no job comes without... Yeah, exactly. It's work. So what are some of the challenges? Obviously, there's good points or you wouldn't be doing what you're doing, but what are some of the challenges that you face as well as a game designer?
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And we made a new friend. I mean, we're practically best friends now too. Basically. That's how awesome this was. What? Did we just become best friends? Yup. Do you want to go do karate in the garage? Yup. So listen, we're going to get to that interview in just a minute. But Ryan, it's been a while. We've been so busy. We haven't done any housekeeping in a while.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
It's funny because I think a lot of people like even for us, again, you know, I mean, we do this podcast, but sometimes, you know, we play a lot of games for the podcast and it can absolutely make it feel like work sometimes where it's like, here's this thing that we'd love to do. I mean, we've been gaming our whole lives.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
but we have to play this game now luckily for king come to it's a joy but not every game is like that you know and so it's like oh i gotta play this game again for a little while and and so i think people don't think about the like the the negatives that come with a job like any job is still work you know in that regard and it comes with things that are difficult um All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
So since we have you, and again, it's not every day we get to talk to a game designer. I have a question that every gamer in the world wants to know. Okay. And that is, we joke as gamers about certain quests. So for instance, fetch quests, escort quests, water levels in games, right? Like, you know, yeah, nobody likes water levels, man. And people don't like escort quests. So,
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
And I'm not saying you guys do this, but why is it that if gamers don't like a certain type of quest structure, that developers still put those in their games?
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
And so I know people are excited to get to the interview. So we're going to make this quick, but we have to give some shout outs. The first one we want to give is to a new Epic supporter, Norwegian Greaser. Thank you so much. Also, we're expanding our global presence, Ryan. This is a good bit of people that are over the pond from us now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
I will say this is not a spoiler, but I am currently on the quest to go see the hermit and to get the sword from the hermit. And it's like, I mean, theoretically, that's a fetch quest, but I know already that this is setting up so much more. I don't know what's to come because I haven't actually, you know, I just started it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
But I think this is where you guys really excel, because you talked about that. Can you remember your play session? Right. Like I played yesterday and I remember what happened yesterday. And, you know, everybody in our community is talking about this game. And it's like, you know, somebody again, I don't want to get in a spoiler, so I'll be a little bit vague.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
But somebody got into where two different sides are kind of facing off over a pasture and. And his outcome was very different than my outcome. And we talked about that. And that gave us that cool thing to kind of talk about.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
And I think this is where you guys have done a masterful job on this is that even though there may be fetch quests, those quests are only a narrative to tell a bigger story at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I love this community because it's like right as we're going to bed, they're all waking up and starting to chat and stuff like that. I love it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
That discovery, though, is such a good thing. Honestly, the sense of discovery...
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
and just coming across something in a game is something that a lot of games don't do we talk about the dumbing down of games and and even with the choice right like now we're getting the illusion of choice where you know a game might make it look like you are making a choice but you're really not the game's going to continue on no matter what and it's like as gamers we get frustrated with that like we're not dumb we understand and so i think that's why it's so refreshing
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
to play a game like kingdom come deliverance to where it's like, my choices actually do matter. I can see that my buddy made a different choice and the outcome was completely different for him. And that lets us talk about it and kind of get hyped up over it too. So I love it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
I love it. I absolutely love it. So thank you, Norwegian Greaser, for signing up with epic support. And then we had a new Rare supporter. Now, I've known this guy for a while. I absolutely love this dude. And that is a supporter by the name of Noggin.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. No, I think you guys did an incredible job. Honestly, I know Ryan feels the same way. We're kind of letting the cat out of the bag a little bit because generally when we're covering a game, we don't spoil our thoughts on a game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
okay for people until it until we do like our review episode but i'm just gonna say it man this game's freaking great yeah we usually don't have developers on from the from the game as well so yeah we're gonna so we're just gonna we're just gonna say it uh up front all right so we are running out of time andre and i want to just respect your time as well on this it's fine like i mean you guys are really like cool about it so it's great so
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Awesome. Well, we love hearing that, too, man. So one other question, because this is I think this is a burning question in a lot of gamers minds, especially for game designers or just studios in general. And you touched on this. I mean, you worked on this game for six years.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
you know, day in, day out, you get to the point where it's the game is releasing to, it may be not you specifically, but just in general or you specifically, do you guys actually like go back and play the game after it's released to kind of see what it's like from start to finish? I would assume no, but Andre's shaking his head. He's like, nope.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Is it more like you're analyzing it at that point?
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
noggin we has been playing rivals with us one of the best hulk players i have seen in rivals it like honestly ever like maybe it's just you know we're not at that high level but like noggin is just a clutch hulk man an honestly amazing guy so thank you noggin for supporting the show as well um we really we appreciate it and we appreciate you also and then ryan i think we've got something else i
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
That makes a lot of sense. That was kind of my thinking, but then it's like, do they go back and play these things?
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
So, well, listen, Andre, this has been a blast, man. I can't thank you enough for coming on and talking with us. You're a cool guy, man. So that really makes it even better to just hang. I feel like we're hanging out with, you know, with the bros and just talking games, which is amazing, man. So I really wanted to just say thank you. I mean, not only for coming on the show, but legitimately.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
this game is awesome. You guys got something. I mean, as gamers, like to, I, I have to go to work right after this. And it's like, I, I, I'm already excited to come home and play again. And there's not a lot of games that give you that feeling like legitimately. And, and like kingdom come deliverance to, uh,
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
is that game for me right now and i know it is our our community is nothing but just sharing talking about it i mean there's something special is what i'm saying and so thank you guys thank everybody honestly uh when you you know when this is over just tell people hey yeah you know these guys there's something here someone coming here around with shots and stuff i see them occasionally yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
So just please tell everybody thank you. But yeah, I mean, what a joy to be able to play this. Honestly, what a joy to be able to talk to you about it as well, man. So thank you so much for your time on this and for hopping on the show.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Dude, I can't tell you how excited we were after this interview. Like, Andre, we're best friends, buddy. You can come on this show anytime you want. What an amazing guy. What an amazing studio. Dude, War Horse Studios knocking it out of the park, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Number one, we're going to do a deep dive, but spoiler, this game's awesome. I get that maybe it's not for everybody. It is a little bit slower paced. It is very almost lifelike in a way, which normally I'm not into like sim type games, but this one is just resonating with me big time. And I mean, we talk about this, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Support the devs that are doing right by gamers, support the devs that have the passion and the care. Support these guys, pick this game up. I mean, you know, put your money where your mouth is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
We've been talking about this for a while, but for them to give their time to just come on the show and chat with us, but then to do it with so much passion and love of the game and gamers, and they know how to approach things. I mean, you heard it in the interview. We cannot just tout this enough. You know, if you want an incredible video game to play, this game is worth the money.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
But at the same time, support awesome studios at the same time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So we will be back with our deep dive in probably another week or two. Like I said, we want to make sure we have enough time on it. It's a big one. Yeah. We hope you enjoyed this episode. We know we did. So, you know, thank you once again to our good buddy, Andre. Thank you to War Horse Studios for lending Andre to us for this interview. And, you know, it was just a blast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
So that's it for this one. Until next time, happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Ooh, you know what, Ryan? You know, let's mix it up, man. This is a special episode. We've got an awesome dev interview that's about to go down. Why don't you take this one, buddy?
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
You've got to read them verbatim, Ryan. That's the deal.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
We had the opportunity, nay, the joy of interviewing one of the game designers from Warhorse Studios who played a large role in the making of the game. This is an incredible interview, and we are so excited to share it with you. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Ryan, you say it already.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
All right. Maybe I added the last part. You're on your off reviews, buddy. You can't just ad lib that stuff, man. My bad. My bad. Oh, my goodness. You joker. You're off. You're off reviews. I couldn't help it. But seriously, thank you, Butch987654321. You are awesome for taking the time to leave a review. If you have not left us a review yet, please take the time to do so.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
It helps the show immensely. It helps other gamers find this podcast. And it just lets us know how we're doing. Like, honestly, the feedback, we love it. We love seeing it. It makes our days. We check them every day. So thank you for leaving those reviews. And if you haven't, what are you waiting for? Ryan, I don't know if I can wait any longer, buddy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
I think it's time to get to this interview, dude. This thing is amazing. I really hope that the listeners enjoy this. DJ, run that tape. Hit it. We are insanely excited to be chatting with Andre from War Horse Studios. Andre is a game designer for the studio and I'm sure is feeling all sorts of crazy emotions right now after launching one of the most anticipated games of 2025.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Kingdom Come deliverance to Andre. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to talk with us. With the release of a highly anticipated game like Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, there has to be this sort of massive anticipation and nervousness that happens right around the release of a game. And I gotta ask, man, what is that like? Is it exciting? Are the nerves through the roof?
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Try to give us a little bit of insight onto actually just putting your game out to the world.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
And joining me, you'll find him sleeping in strangers' beds, stealing horses, and failing miserably at brewing potions.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Like the actual train Subway.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
That's awesome. So as a game designer, you kind of brought up a good point that you guys, like you said, that last six months, I mean, it's go time for six years, basically. But then the time kind of leading up to close to the release, you kind of just get to breathe a little bit, right? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
I didn't think about that. That's an interesting point that some things are just locked in because of the work that's done previously. So, Andre, I want to talk because, I mean, we have been playing the heck out of this game. We have a large community. Our listeners, everybody has been raving. I mean, raving about this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
So, you know, there is a hype level, I mean, for us as gamers, and I'm sure for you guys as well. So I kind of want to ask a couple questions about just the release of the game. Okay. And, I mean, you guys are in a great spot because this has been very, very positive. I mean, every gamer that we talk to on social media, people are posting screenshots and they're praising the game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
What is that like? Like, when you release a game and you start to see the reviews roll in and you see, you know, the Metacritic scores and the critics are, you know, reviewing it, but then you have the gamers and...
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
like do you guys dive into the reviews i mean you know we're a podcast people leave us reviews and it's like every time a new review pops up we read it and we go oh that was great or if somebody's like hey we don't love it you kind of go like oh like oh that hurts man so what is that like to kind of see the reception to the game um so last time six years ago when we did kcd1
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, yeah. They get really mad if you're sleeping in their bed. I mean, rightfully so. If you found somebody sleeping in your bed, you probably would have... Man, I was tired, bro. I was just tired. Dude, Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, we have been playing it. There is so much to talk about in this game. I mean, our entire community is talking about it. The internet's talking about it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
I haven't made it there yet, but now I'm really interested in this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
That's fair, Ryan. I deserve it, buddy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
love walking john this is right up your alley i know i know and if i started running out of breath halfway through walking through my house i'd have a real problem i wouldn't be playing i wouldn't be playing blueprints oh man all right well listen we have got to talk about marvel rival season two that releases tomorrow from this episode we are having a community night
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I know we have some listeners that are going, what do you mean a community night? Almost every week, if not every two weeks, we get together as gamers and we play games together. Shocking. I know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But listen, as gamers, you know that the best part of games is playing games with your friends, having those people that you are able to just relax and have fun with, people that aren't yelling at you and screaming at you and being toxic and that kind of thing. And we do this almost weekly in our Discord server. We have had an average of over 20 people for every single one of these.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. It's a great time to be a gamer. 2025 has been off to a fantastic start and some of the best is yet to come. We've got some great looking games looming on the horizon and some truly hidden gems coming that you may not even know about. We've got a ton of great news to talk about today, but first some introductions are in order.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
It is an absolute blast. If you have not joined us, we are sending out the invite. I know the very first thing is, well, what if I'm not good or what if I don't play rivals? That is a-okay. Doesn't matter.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I mean, listen, we have people of all skill levels. It is just an absolute...
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
fantastic time so we are sending out the invite to you personally to come join us uh we're going to be doing it this friday come join our discord server the link is in the episode description um and come have some fun with fellow gamers man that's what it's all about all right so let's talk about marvel rivals season two because there are some big changes right after this break All right, guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Somebody's got to do it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Season two is going to be giving us a couple new characters. Now, the first one is a new Vanguard, Emma Frost. The internet's losing their minds over this. I mean, it's probably the fact that she can choke slam somebody. I'm going to say, and that's why people are really, really interested in playing Emma Frost.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, don't make it weird, people. But also, that's my new main.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I lived with a Cajun accent for like 10 years.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I mean, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But, I mean, listen, Rivals is still going strong. It's funny. We've talked to a lot of people that are like, dude, it looks so fun. I've just never hopped in. Come play with us. It's a fantastic game. As a guy that played Overwatch for over 1,800 hours and I thought I will never leave this game, Marvel Rivals is the game that pulled me away from Overwatch. It is just an absolute blast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Season 2 is the perfect time to get back into this. We're getting Emma Frost. Halfway through the season, we're going to get Ultron? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
That's not bad, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
What? I mean, I guess he's healing people with drones and technology and he flies. So it's kind of like the first flying healer, which I think is kind of cool. There are going to be some balance changes that are coming. Listen. Marvel Rivals developers, I know you're listening to this podcast right now. You have said we are your favorite podcast. Please. They all got laid off. Oh, dang it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Okay, whoever's left at Marvel Rivals, and John, we're going to need you to translate this, but please nerf Spider-Man and make Jeff killable. Okay, that's the only two things I'm asking for, man. That's what you've been... You've been asking for that forever. Yes. And they don't listen. They don't listen. Also, Nerf the triple healer meta.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Thank you very much for coming to our Marvel Rivals Season 2 request talk. Ryan, I know you're excited for this one. Moon Knight's getting a huge buff. Some characters are getting needed buffs. Some are getting nerfed. It's always a good time to kind of have a new season, new characters to play. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And that's all we're going to say about that. Come beat up on John.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
You know, it'll make you feel good, man. It really does here. So I don't get fined. Yeah. He doesn't cry. He just goes, Oh, you got me. And then, you know, he just plays that on loop.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
There is always somebody better than you out there. Look, I fully admit I get tilted when I'm playing bad or somebody is wrecking me over and over. It's just my competitive nature. But it's still a good time regardless. If you're the best guy in the room, you're in the wrong room. Speaking of good times, guys, let's talk about Schedule 1.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So, all right, for anybody that's curious, because we've been getting a lot of people asking us, that's our next episode. We are going to record the Schedule 1 Deep Time. That will come out on Monday. We have been playing it. The Empire has been growing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I mean, there is a lot to talk about with this game, so if you are curious as to what Schedule 1 is all about, we are doing a deep dive on Monday. Do not miss that episode. Freaking Keith. Yeah, Ryan's going to talk about Keith. Yeah, he's got... Dude, Keith came to our door the other day, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Unhinged. Keith is not a guy you want hanging around your front doorstep, that's for sure. So... Unfortunately, Schedule 1 is coming with a little bit of controversy. And no, it's not over the fact that you are building up a drug empire. It is over the fact that a rival developer is claiming copyright infringement against Schedule 1. The makers of Drug Dealer Simulator 1 and 2...
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Apparently got very upset over Schedule 1's popularity and the fact that more people are playing Schedule 1 than Drug Dealer Simulator, and they have sued Schedule 1 for copyright infringement. Now, we are going to turn to our copyright expert, John, to get his thoughts. John, is this copyright infringement?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Come on down. Gumbo. Oh, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I mean, apparently Drug Dealer Simulator is not an unpopular game. It had like 18,000 reviews, which means it sold at least 18,000 copies and probably a lot more than that. I mean, I'm with you on this one, John. I think this is simply somebody's mad because a game is more successful. You cannot say that any game that involves dealing drugs or building up a drug empire is copyright infringement.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I mean, we wouldn't have video games if that was the case. Legitimately, if you want to be the best, then be the best. But just because a genre exists does not give you power over that entire genre. So I'm with you. Shame on you, Drug Dealer Simulator 1 and 2 developers for putting... The solo dev for schedule one through this man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
There's about to be 300,002 because we're hopping on after this, right? That's like five football stadiums. Yeah, that is a lot of people. That's for you, Santar. All right. Guys, this next story just warms my heart. You know, it just makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. It's such a great story. Hot. Hollow Knight Silksong confirmed for 2025 release.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
We got a three-second snippet of this during the Nintendo Direct that people astutely saw and went, wait a minute. Did that just say Silksong 2025? And then people went, did you mean to show that? Because this was also when the Nintendo Direct was kind of lagging a little bit. And they did come out and they did confirm that the game is releasing in 2025.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Now, this has been a myth for, I don't know, four, five decades now. I mean, we're finally getting Silksong, guys. We did state a while back that we were curious if this would be a launch title for like the Switch 2. Doesn't look like that's going to happen, but you don't know yet.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But, you know, I am not a person that gloats over, like, a Street Fighter victory at a convention or something like that. I just want to ask a very simple question to Ryan directly, since, John, you are absolved of this one. But, Ryan, do you remember who drafted Silksong in our most anticipated Games of 2025 draft? By chance, do you remember?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I mean, did I mention that my wife was born and raised in Louisiana? You know, there's, there you go. Exactly.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So, you know, I happen to come a little prepared for this episode. I am the host. I have to do my research. I just want to read my list of most anticipated games for 2025 for a second. I mean, let's just start with Kingdom Come Deliverance 2. Quite possibly, you know, game of the year for 2025. A little game called Hollow Knight Silksong that I picked up for $10 in that draft.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
A game that's coming up soon that looks incredible called Claire Obscura Expedition 33. What? Never heard of it. A little game called Monster Hunter Wilds. I don't know if people have heard of that one. They're going to hear a lot more soon. The Altars, which I know we're hyped for, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
yeah is not gonna take place of all those games that you have that that accumulation you also have doomed the dark ages ryan that's the one that's the one i'm actually really jealous of man but those two lists you got a bunch man i do you're right you're right solid list yeah you're right see he didn't expect me to come with kindness he doesn't know what to do i don't i don't know what to do all right let's go on to the next story guys
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
All right. And then, look, here's a game that came out that we have talked about a few times, and I know people have asked us, hey, are you guys going to be covering this game? South of Midnight. It's out. It's out. John, you were pretty darn excited for South of Midnight, but...
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So let me, I just want to, because we're friends here, you know, we're all friends.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So let me get this straight. So you were rushing through quite possibly one of the best video games that has come out in a really long time in Ghost of Tsushima. to dive into south of midnight which is by all you know reviews and and comments okay game is that is that what i'm hearing here's here's the thing you guys know how i play narrative
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. Well, welcome in, everybody. I mean, this is going to be a heck of an episode. I am so excited for this one, man. We have so many amazing things to talk about. But first we've got a new supporter to thank you guys. I mean, listen, sometimes people hop in the discord. They lurk for a little while. They kind of hang out for a little bit and then they go, you know what? Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I am actually really curious about South of Midnight, to be honest. We have said from the beginning that the gameplay looks fairly mediocre. Like, you know, the combat in the game doesn't look like it's doing anything revolutionary. But combat is still fun, man. I mean, it doesn't have to always be revolutionary.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
The narrative of South of Midnight, the art style, the music, all seems to be top-notch. Um, I will not be playing South of Midnight because I am now just on this Blueprints hype train. And then we're going to have Claire Obscura very, very soon after that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But I am actually really curious, John, if you jump into that to, to hear your thoughts on it, you know, because as somebody that says, look, I don't necessarily have to have the gameplay rope me in as long as it's got a really good narrative. Yeah. You know, is that presentation enough to say, dude, this game was really good, you know, at that point?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that's always nice. And honestly, you did say something that I really like to reinforce is that if you are hyped for a game and I know you've been hyped for South of Midnight, play the game, man. Don't let people don't let the Internet put you off on something.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
You know, I mean, I think that there is absolutely something to be said for jumping into a game blindly and just saying, let me let me base. Let me let me judge this game on the merits of the game itself. You know, that doesn't always mean that it's going to work out and it might be a mid game, you know, at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But at least you got to experience it and kind of form your own opinion on that. And that's a weird thing to say, especially in an industry that is, you know, so review heavy and people's thoughts on stuff. And I mean, we do this all the time. We give our thoughts on games and we just say, hey, this is what I think. It doesn't mean that we're saying that's what you have to think.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But, you know, it's like these are our opinions on something. We'll always give our honest opinion on it. It doesn't mean that we think that you should have the same opinion. And so this is why I'm very curious. To have you play it, John, and go, dude, this game was on my radar. It's kind of off my radar.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Maybe this place isn't crazy. You know, maybe I can talk to people a little bit. And this is just one of those stories that I love so much. And then they started talking and then it was like, boom. And now it's one of those things where I love like seeing them chiming in on games and stuff like that. And then lo and behold, we saw that they went, you know what? Let me support this show.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But maybe I need to put it back on my radar when I get a break in gaming that isn't Expedition 33, Blueprints, Doom the Dark Ages.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But even if you don't like it, you know for a fact that you don't like it because you got to play it. You were not saying, well, so-and-so said they didn't like it, so I don't like it then. It's different.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
It's a completely different experience to say, yeah, I tried it, I don't like it, than to just go like, well, some guy said that he didn't like it, so I'm not ever going to even give it a shot at that point. So... All right, one last story, guys. We're running a little bit long here, but we've got to talk about this very quickly because we want to put this on people's radar as well. Bungie.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Oh, my goodness. Now, there's a name. There's a name. The makers of Destiny and Halo are finally about to show off the game that they have been working on for it seems like 10 years now. They are going to be showing off marathon gameplay on April 12th during a live stream where they are going to show off marathon and what this game is all about. I'm nervous.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Like, I'm excited because it's like, dude, how do you like you have the pedigree of Halo and Destiny? If there's anybody in the world that knows how to make an engaging shooter, it's got to be Bungie, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So a huge shout out to Lucy Moon for supporting the show. We see you chatting in the Discord, Lucy Moon. Thank you. It's awesome. It is awesome to have you participating and talking video games with everybody else. And thank you for supporting this podcast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I think I know, like, my thought is Bungie knows what they're doing, for sure. I am a little concerned over just the fatigue of first-person shooters and battle royales and, you know, PvP-type games. I mean, we saw the failure of, what was Shroud's shooter that he had that came out? I don't remember, but it failed. You know, it lasted, like, two months. It looked like it was going to be okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
We've seen, like, Frag Punk. Like, there's these games that we hear people talking favorably about, but then they just fade away. because they don't get enough traction, you know? Um, so yeah, I, I am nervous for this, but I am also really excited to see what they've got and to see what they've been working on for so long.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So, you know, just for people that are like, wait, we're not talking the politics behind this. We are talking the effect on the game industry. So anybody that might be going like, oh, like, no, we're not. We don't get political on the show. We keep it to gaming. And this is this is a topic on gaming news. I think Nintendo's crawfish in a little bit, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I think the Nintendo Direct did not go exactly like they wanted it to go. I think Nintendo was not stupid. I think they heard the outrage over the cost of the games and the cost of the Switch 2. And I think that they tactfully went... Maybe we shouldn't open up these pre-sales yet until we actually have a little bit of a conversation about our pricing structure and all this stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Did just have a birthday. Yep. We remember to say happy birthday.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Now, will tariffs affect the pricing? Yes, absolutely. But I think this is Nintendo using the tariffs as a way to go, ooh, this did not go like we thought it was going to go, man. Gamers are kind of ticked right now. Even people that want a Switch 2. are a little peeved about the price and the price of the games. And John, you said it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
If Nintendo gets away with charging $80 and $90 a game, every game developer in the world will follow suit, dude. This is not a light topic. This is not a light decision. If Nintendo can do it, everybody is going to do it. I mean, plain and simple. So are we ready as a planet of gamers to have games cost us $80 and $90?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Because if Nintendo charges it and they can do it, everybody else will follow suit. I don't think that them delaying the pre-orders is necessarily about the tariffs. Again, yes, the tariffs will affect the price of it. But I think Nintendo is smarter than just that. And I think they're using this to kind of reassess things.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
The other thing that I'll say is this is also very much we're already hearing this is going, well, digital copies of games won't be affected by a tariff because they're digital. They don't have to get shipped. But a manufacturer or a company or a developer like Nintendo that no longer has to worry about the resale market.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
day to see what people can't see video content right here what people can't see is us dancing but guess what oh yeah we have video we are fully video oh no this is not john john is talking okay this is all right well listen you can see you can see this dancing we are on video on spotify there is a video option now on every episode where you can watch the show we are on youtube We are on YouTube.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
that's costing them probably billions of dollars is probably a okay with everybody in the world, just buying a digital copy of a game that they can't turn around and sell on Facebook marketplace to somebody. I, I don't know, man. I mean, I don't, I don't know if that's a little conspiracy theory or what, but that's my thoughts on what Nintendo's doing, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Oh, I love Blockbuster. It's the subscription model. You don't own anything, guys. You don't own these games. You lease the ability to play them. I don't like that idea. Even though, I mean, we just said Game Pass is great. It lets me play all these games for super cheap.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
But it's like I still want the option to just say this is my game and I can play it when my internet is out and I got something to do.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I'm an optimist. I believe that. I think things are going to work out the way that they work out. You got to shake things up occasionally or everybody just gets complacent and then we start having Far Cry 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. And Assassin's Creed, Mirage, Valhalla, Odyssey, Shadows. Sorry, Ubisoft. Oh my gosh. That's a dig at Ubisoft again. I can't. Help myself, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Quality, not quantity, please. I don't know, man. My kids think McDonald's is the greatest thing ever. So sometimes it just mass produced. If it makes dollars, it makes sense, brother. Yeah, I don't know. All right, listen, that's going to do it for this episode.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I mean, oh my goodness, guys, we are swimming, swimming in good games right now with some incredible looking games coming up on the horizon. It's a good time to be a gamer. That's all I got to say, man. Listen, thank you to Lucy Moon once again for supporting the show.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
If you want to help this podcast continue to reach everybody in the world, you can help that happen by heading over to MultiplayerSquad.com and signing up. We'll give you a shout out on the show. You get some awesome perks in our Discord server. Come join us for our community night this Friday. I mean, that's April 11th in case you're listening beforehand. If you missed it,
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Chances are we're having another one because we try to do these every week or every two weeks. But this is really an awesome time, man. It is way more enjoyable than you are thinking right now. Everybody has such a blast. So if you haven't done so, make sure you follow the podcast. Hit that plus button, that follow button in your podcast app. And as a reminder, we are on video, people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So watch our show. Check out our dancing at the top of this episode. Let us know. Oh, man. Yeah, you can watch us on YouTube as well. But we are fully video from now into the future. So if you haven't been watching, you are missing out on that as well. So that's it for this one, everybody. Until next time, happy gaming. Toodles.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Every episode gets uploaded to YouTube as well. So if you want to see three middle-aged men just putting on some sweet, sweet dance moves, there's your opportunity. Also, we apologize for nothing. Sorry. Oh, man. And then, listen, we've been promising this for a little while, but we do have some reviews to read, so we've got to get back to these.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
We are way behind, but honestly, to everybody that has left this show a review, thank you so much for taking the time to do that. It is incredible. It helps people when they find the show to go, let me look at these reviews and see what these guys are about. And if you have seen the reviews that people leave, how do you not give us a shot and just say, okay, let me check these guys out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And there's a good chance that we're going to read your review like this one that comes in from JohnnyD1441.com. And it's titled the best a video gamer can find. And it says one day while I was looking for a cool podcast to listen to, I just typed in video games in the search bar. Since that is one of my major interests. Am I ever glad I did that?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
This podcast just feels like I'm hanging out with friends who love games. Josh and Ryan, also shout out Paul, hope you're well, are just two awesome guys who genuinely care about their audience and their content. You're not going to find a podcast like this anywhere else. Please keep up the amazing work, guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Can't wait to see how the show and amazing community will grow and continue to evolve in the future. P.S. They aren't kidding. Join the Discord. It's awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
What a guy. Now, if that also tells you how far behind we are because they didn't mention John, we might be a few months behind on the reviews, guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. It's like the John ESP thing going on. There you go.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I am your host, Josh, and joining me, he's excited because Moon Knight is getting a big buff and he might, maybe, but probably not, get close to my level in Rivals. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Number one, long-haul drivers, y'all keep this country functioning.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
They do not get enough credit, man. Always letting me over in traffic, too, dude. Yeah. Legitimately. Truckers are like, yeah, dude, go ahead. I'm not in a hurry. You can have that spot.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Don't let one or two bad ones ruin your fun, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Come on, Hulk. Oh, man. OK, guys. And then one other thing that we've promised is, hey, we've got some quick questions. If you want to ask a question for the show, you can do that as one of the perks for signing up on for the epic status over at MultiplayerSquad.com. You get to ask a question that we will answer at the top of an episode like this one that comes in from your boy Alex.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And his question is, if someone didn't have a million hours to put into gaming like host John does, what are the top 10 games he or she must play before they die? Now, listen, we don't have time for top 10. So we're just going to throw out a couple must play games, maybe like four or five for me. Elden Ring, God of War 2018, Cyberpunk 2077.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I'm going to say Outer Wilds just because I've had that itch and people that have played it know and Subnautica are some must plays for my opinion. John what about you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
You guys are going to find out. Yeah, I'm excited to play that one, Ryan. You don't even have to force me on that one, man, because I'm excited to check that one out. So thank you, your boy Alex, for the question. Guys, we got a ton of news to talk about, so let's get into it. I mean, I think the first one we've got to bring up, guys, because it released today.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
The day that people are listening to this episode, this game released. This game came out of nowhere. There are a few things in life that I love more than a game that is just taking the world by storm that nobody has heard about. Because there's just some kind of excitement that comes with that. It's like this unknown. Nothing's been spoiled yet.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
We kind of saw this with Schedule 1 a little bit, which we're going to talk about here in a second. But this is a game by the name of Blueprints. P-R-I-N-C-E. Which I think is a play on the word blueprint. If you think about it for a second. But Blueprints is a roguelike puzzle game. That it came out of seemingly nowhere. I'll be honest. I knew nothing about this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
We had somebody in our discord community ask about it. I went, I never heard of this game before in my life. And I was doing something where I couldn't look it up. And then later that day I went, let me see what this is about. And then all of a sudden. It's like, guys, this might be one of the best puzzle games ever made.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I have seen people talking about this game, saying this is up there with the likes of Portal 2, The Witness, Outer Wilds, The Return of the Obra Dinn, The Talos Principle. Some of the best puzzle games of all time, and they're throwing out blueprints in that pantheon, the Mount Rushmore of puzzle games. How dare you? How dare you, I say?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
This is only because you came at me, Ryan. You came at me earlier in a private chat. Bring it on. Bring it on, brother. It's funny because we're on the same team. You think we would both want to be like, yeah, dude, way to kill people. That's why we do what we do. Same team, bro. Oh, man. Oh, boy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
It's not much of a challenge.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I will say this. The thing that really interests me is people are saying there are puzzles in this game. This is not like Myst where it's nothing but puzzles and you kind of bang your head against the wall. There is a roguelike element to this game where as you go through a door, you actually get presented three rooms that you can say, I want this door to lead to this room.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And you have limited number of steps as you play the game. So every time you go through a doorway, you use steps. So you're limited in your run through this mansion. But the thing that interests me the most is people are saying the story, the things that you discover about this mansion that your uncle gave to you,
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Okay, and joining us, when he's not busy practicing for his World of Dance audition, he's practicing his Cajun accent for South of Midnight and counting down the days until Silksong's release. It's John!
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
is incredible and as you delve deeper there are things in this game that even the people that reviewed it said i am not going to spoil a thing for you i don't even want to talk about this anymore because there is some crazy stuff in this game that is like a revelation and that is what outer wilds is like the reason i'm always screaming about outer wilds is you discover the story by just playing the game and at the end you sit back and you go oh my gosh dude like
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
what just happened? And people are saying that blueprints is like that. And that gets me very excited, dude, because that's the thing that leaves those lasting memories. I like puzzle games, but I'm not like some just puzzle game aficionado. I think there's a time and a place for them.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince Hype, Silksong Confirmed & Rivals Season 2 – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And I definitely do get like the craving for one from time to time, but I'm not the guy that goes like, this is my favorite genre, but this game seems to be something very special so far. We're going to find out because we're picking it up, but it comes out today and, So we'll see. So I am super hyped for this one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Think about that. The gaming industry is larger than the two of those combined. And that counts all of gaming. So mobile console, PC, all that stuff. But it is absolutely, that's how much money is involved in the gaming industry. And so if you think that AI is not getting involved in this, I think that that's, you know, I think that's people kind of closing their eyes a little bit on that one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
So for sure. All right, let's take a quick break and then I'll come back with another hot take. All right, Ryan, we're back. You know, I have another negative hot take on my list, but I don't want to seem like a Debbie Downer, you know, and go to back to back failure. So I'm going to I'm going to start with this one. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
The Nintendo Switch 2 releases this year with Super Mario Odyssey 2 as the premier release title and sets a record for the fastest selling console.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
People that have been listening for a while know this, but these takes are meant to be spicy. They're meant to sound a little out there because they're bold takes. We don't want to make claims that it's like, yeah, dude, okay. Everybody in the world thinks that. That's not fun, man. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I'm making the take that you're going to love Elden Ring, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
So it's funny because with our most anticipated games draft, Metroid Prime 4 got drafted.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. It's a new year with a world of games in front of us. We've already talked about our most anticipated releases, what we hope for in 2025 and more, but now it's time to get a little crazy and talk about our video game bold predictions for 2025.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And there's a lot of people that are saying, oh, that's going to be a Switch 2 game. But I think Nintendo is smart. And I think that they are going to need that mega title. And that's not to slander Metroid Prime by any means. But I mean, I think that Mario is infinitely larger than Metroid in many gamers' minds and just the population as a whole.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And so I think that they are going to pair the release of the Switch 2 with Super Mario Odyssey 2, which we have heard nothing about, by the way. But I think those two things are going to go hand in hand. It's probably going to happen. late 2025, maybe around October, November, somewhere around there so that people can get them for Christmas and all that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
But I think those two things are going to happen by the end of this year.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
2019? I think that's what it feels like, right? Like it's probably five years old. It's approaching. It came out in 2017. No way. March 3rd of 2017. Dude, are you for real? It has been eight years. Now that we're in 2025, it has been eight years. Oh my gosh. Since the release of the Nintendo Switch, which puts it in the antique ancient dinosaur category of a console.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
At this point. You know? Yeah. And so we're due, man. And I think there's a lot of people that think that the Switch is coming out this year, the Switch 2 is coming out this year.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
I don't think that that part is necessarily that bold of a take, but paired with the Super Mario Odyssey 2 and it being the fastest selling console are kind of my put it into the hot takes, bold predictions category for me. Yeah. All right, Ryan, what's up next for you, buddy?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
That's probably not going to happen. But that's the kind of angle we're going for on these. So yes, we are crazy. Yes, these takes are going to sound a little bit crazy, but that's the point. We don't expect any of these to hit. But man, if we come back to this show at the end of 2025, Ryan, and we got even one of these, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
That's recency bias, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Overwatch has been around since like 2016, man. There's no way that some new game coming out with the Marvel brand name is going to displace Overwatch of all things.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
I'm being facetious here because I agree with you 100%.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
We're recording early so we can play tonight.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
overall and then the gameplay it's it's awesome man so i think it's gonna i think it's a killer man i i there was not a time when i could have like seen the overwatch killer yeah like legitimately because overwatch has just been around forever it was the height of the hero shooter for many many years oh for sure i mean there's the whole issue with oh overwatch 2 is going to be the greatest thing so we're getting rid of overwatch 1 and blah blah blah and then we all saw how that happened and i
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
I am with you on this one, is that I think that... I think it will. I think it's going to kill Overwatch, dude. Yes. Now, to say kill, they're not taking the servers offline. Let's be real here. Overwatch is not going to shut down their servers and stuff like that, because we've already seen they're really not putting much development effort into Overwatch anymore. No, they don't care.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
That thing's kind of just on autopilot. They make a couple skins, and I'm sure they have two people dedicated to Overwatch at this point. But... I think that Marvel rivals will supplant it as the premier free to play hero shooter. And I think Overwatch is going to just fall off into obscurity at some point. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Dude, like not, not, not to gush over Marvel rivals again, but the day after this episode releases season one starts for Marvel rivals. We are getting the fantastic four. Yes. We're not getting one new character, Ryan, which is what Overwatch does every three or four months. We're getting four new characters. Four? Like two months after the game fully released. Unreal. You know what I mean?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Nostra Ryan? Okay. I'm not sure if my brain likes that or not, but I have to give you credit for it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
It's weird because in the frenzy that is Marvel Rivals, there's probably a lot of people that are saying, well, that's not that bold of a take. But people have to understand the scale and scope that Overwatch had in the world and the Overwatch League and all this stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And to say that this game is going to be the death knell for Overwatch is really bold, but at the same time seems very feasible, too. Yeah. Yeah. All right, Ryan. Well, man, you know, not to be a Debbie Downer. That's my term for this episode, apparently. But here's another one. Borderlands 4 will flop and be the demise of the franchise.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Oh, now, now this one hurts me a little bit, but this is a bold take because I drafted Borderlands 4 in my most anticipated games for 2025. Now, kind of hilariously, I didn't really want to win that game. You and Paul conspired against me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And it made me wind up taking it. But I, the more I think about it, and Paul kind of brought this up and he said, I don't have very much faith in that franchise anymore. And it got me thinking about it. And it's like, this is another one where if they don't figure it out, if they, because let's be honest, like Borderlands three was meh. Tiny Tina's Wonderlands was meh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Like they're the humor is there. Like I get it, but it's almost kind of just contrived at this point. Like they even said, Hey, we're going to not rely on the pot of humor quite so much in Borderlands. Um, I feel like they need to really renaissance this thing if they want to reinvigorate the franchise, if we're going to use some corporate game PR speak there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And I'm not sure they know how to do that. Like legitimately, I'm not sure they know how to do it. And based off of the trailer that we saw, there was a lot of pushback from fans already about like, dude, these characters don't really do it for me. What looks new? The art style hasn't really evolved. Like there are some warning signs with the little bit that we saw.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And so I would like to see more, number one, to say, okay, cool. This really is the next evolution of this. But if it just comes out and it's more of the same, I'm not sure that Borderlands is going to recover.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
I've had so many good times in that game, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
In that franchise, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
I feel like if you thought about that one, you would have kept it in. So that's how I know it was just straight impromptu at that point. So Ryan, we're going to get into these bold predictions. But man, I promised that we were going to catch up on a few of these reviews that people have been leaving for us. And we're going to read a couple.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
These are not things that we're hoping for. Let's be clear here. Like, we are not hoping for these things, but they are just predictions. You know, they're alternate universes where these things might come to be. And if they do, well, we'll say we told you so. Doesn't mean we're happy about them.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
All right, Ryan, what do you got, buddy?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
I this one's weird to me because I legitimately have the exact opposite take for Elden Ring.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And I knew we were going to run out of time. So I actually wasn't going to mention this one. But I can actually see your point of view on this. And it's interesting because Elden Ring and the Dark Souls games have always stayed in their lane. Maybe they've branched out a little bit like Sekiro with the parrying system and it's the samurai and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
But FromSoft games have always had this certain style of gameplay to them and difficulty level and things like that. And with Elden Ring Night Rain, it's weird because I'm not super excited about Night Rain, oddly enough. Like, oh, don't get me wrong. I will absolutely be picking this game up and playing it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
But it's weird because in my brain, my brain kind of defaults to this is a simplified, dumped down version of Elden Ring. Because they even kind of said like, hey, we want you to play this with friends. It's not as hard. It's a little bit faster paced. Like it's a roguelike kind of thing. you know, like gain and my brain's having a hard time wrapping around that. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And we got one that we decided needs a little juicing up, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And so it's like, is this going to be good? Like, is it going to be like, I mean, I was super hyped for shadow of the urge tree and that released and it was everything I wanted it to be. If not more, like I could not have been happier with that coming out and what they did with that. And so now it's like, are they trying to bring it to the masses or,
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
You know, not that Elden Ring hasn't been a phenomenally successful game, but I just mean like there's a lot of people that say, and we see it every day in our Discord server where it's like, I don't like the Dark Souls difficulty. I don't like Dark Souls games. So I've never tried Elden Ring.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
But then you have people that pick it up and they go, whoa, this is one of the best video games I've ever seen. And it's like, yeah. I've been trying to tell you. Yes. But so is simplifying it and dumbing it down going to be detrimental to it or not?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
It's not fully a script, but it's enough that we said, you know, we got to give this a little bit more. So we are going to read this one. This one comes in from Sonic Banshee. And Ryan, you going to get us started on this one?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Now, my take, and I won't make this an official one for me, but just to give people an idea because I could see this swinging both ways, is Elden Ring, Night Rain is an approachable version of Elden Ring that introduces beginners to the Dark Souls combat, which will then catapult Elden Ring To very high popularity in sales in 2025.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Like if you make it approachable and you you simplify it a little bit, will that actually open it up to the masses? And now Elden Ring becomes even more successful because now more people can play it and they're not banging their heads against a wall, you know, that's one of the bosses.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that's one I could see legit going either direction, but calling it a flop... That is bold.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
I can see it. That world exists, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Honestly, if it's mid, that's a flop. For a game with the name of Elden Ring, if it comes out mid, that is a flop at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
We'll give a couple little quick ones here. We don't have to dive too deep into this one, but here's another one for me. As much as we are excited about King and Come Deliverance 2 and Avowed and maybe the release of Judas and all these other games that we covered in our most anticipated episode, my bold prediction is that 2025's Game of the Year hasn't even been announced yet. No.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Just like we saw in 2024 with Astro Bot. Yeah. We went into 2024 with the highest hype levels imaginable with the release of Helldivers 2 and all of these other games that we were super excited for. And then lo and behold, at the start of summer, a little trailer gets released for a game called Astro Bot. And we went, what? What is this?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And then we played it and we went, oh my goodness, this game's great. And guess what? It won game of the year.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
rightfully so even i mean rightfully so and so my take is that we do not even know what the game is that's gonna win 2025's game of the year okay so oh man so do you think that's gonna be like a system exclusive like maybe nintendo comes out with with something hot or like super mario odyssey 2 yeah maybe super mario odyssey 2 with like a switch 2 or something like that you know
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
it's tough man it's tough now now this is also predicated on the assumption that gta6 is probably not releasing this year um but yeah that's that's my take man i and it's one of the things that i love is we do these beginning of the year episodes and then we sound like idiots later on in the year because all this stuff happens and then we're like you guys didn't know i know you didn't know that astrobot was coming out you guys had no idea well speaking of just like um
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
That's bold, buddy. There's a lot of AAA games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Dude, I always, always want indie developers to see success, dude. Legitimately, we absolutely love when we find these super fun games that are small indie games. Shout out to Bopple Battle once again. If you have not checked out Bopple Battle, B-O-P-L. That's how you spell it. Bopple Battle is one of the funnest games that we have come across in any developer.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
We have many a good conversation with the actual developer of that game. And what an awesome guy. But that game is stupid fun, dude. Like if you have not checked it out, check it out. But that to us will always be like part of like the heart and epitome of gaming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Is these games that are just fun. You can tell that they were made to be fun. They were made with passion and they resonate with us like crazy. It's funny because I'm looking over our our draft for the most anticipated games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And it's like there's only a couple like indie titles on this whole thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
I start to get sleepy. As I feel like I'm going to doze off, my ears are greeted by the invigorating and revitalizing voices of Josh and Ryan. The only sad part to my night now is when the episode is over and I must sit in a seat soaked in tears of sadness until the next episode.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
But this could be the year of Indy because if a lot of these AAA titles are only mid or don't pan out or get delayed, I can see a world where that absolutely happens.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
All right, I'll do one more quick one. We don't have to dive into this one, but I want to get this one out here because I kind of teased this the other day when we did our side quest episode and we kind of got all excited and hyped. So I'm going to make it official. My bold prediction is that GTA 6 will get delayed to 2026 and Half-Life 3 is going to get announced for release in 2026.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And 2026 will be the greatest year of gaming that we have seen since 2018 when we got Red Dead Redemption 2 and God of War in the same year.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
In the same year. Oh, my goodness, man. That would be the showdown of the century. It'll go back to the Red Dead 2 versus God of War for game of the year. And how do you choose which one you're actually going to say this is the game of the year? Yeah. And the gaming world is going to lose its mind. Now, there's very little chance that Half-Life 3 actually ever gets.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
But I had to get the boldest of the bold out there. And just say, there's a year where we get both, man!
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Oh, that would help my list so much.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
This is a question, right? Is Hollow Knight slash Silksong at this point in its popularity still considered an indie game?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
I think it is because I think it's a small group.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Silksong would be one of the biggest releases of 2025 if it comes out in 2025. So you can say like, well, if it's that big of a release, doesn't that mean it's not really an indie game at that point? But then is it like, is it the size of the developer? Is it the amount of money you spend developing a game? Is it the fact that they took 800 years to make it?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
You know, they've been developing this for 20 years now. Like what's, what's the qualifications for this? Yeah. I hope you're right, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
I really, out of all of these bold predictions, I legitimately think that one has the highest chance of actually being true.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Of coming to fruition. I really, really think that we're going to get Silksong in 2025.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, and then all the memes at the end of the year will just keep going. And then I don't know what's going to happen.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, and then 2027 will be like, all right, man, this is the year. GTA 6, Silksong. We're going to get them. All right. Well, listen, that was our bold predictions for 2025. If you want to call us crazy, come to our Discord server and call us crazy. If you have bold predictions of your own, we would love to hear them because this is the type of stuff that gamers love.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
We want to chat games with people. We want to have these silly debates and these silly, you know, bold predictions and hot takes. The link to our Discord server is in the episode description. All you got to do is click it. Come join us. We are not lying about how awesome this community is. You can join for free. There's no monetary incentive for us to try to sell you this Discord community.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
We just want gamers to have this really incredible place to come hang out. There's no toxicity. It's family friendly. Come join us. You can lurk if you want to, but just come be a part of that community because it is fantastic, man. If you're not already following us on social media at Video Gamers Pod on all socials is where you can find us there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And hey, if you enjoyed this episode, make sure that you follow the podcast. Open up your podcast app right now. We're getting near the end of the episode. Tap that follow button. Tap that plus button. That way you get our episodes the day that they release. And if you really, if you really want to go the extra mile and be the hero, like all these Marvel rival heroes that are out there.
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The Fantastic Four is coming. Don't you want to be like them? You know what the Fantastic Four does? They support this podcast and they do it over at MultiplayerSquad.com. They all signed up. We saw it. They support the show and you should too. So head over to MultiplayerSquad.com. You can sign up and support us for as little as five bucks a month. So it goes a long way.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
We'll give you a shout out on the show. You get early access and ad free episodes as well. Ryan, my bold prediction is we're about to shut this episode down and go play some Marvel Rivals, buddy. So thank you to everybody for tuning in. And until next time, happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Man, I needed a second after that one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
That was a good review. Homage to the Paul.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
It had night skies, bone-chilling winds, tears. You know, Paul? What's not to love, man?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Also, in hindsight, I probably should have read this other review first so that we ended with a more dramatic note. But now we're going to read this review.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Absolutely. We love all reviews, as is evidenced by us reading it right now. This one comes in from DanteSilver08, and it's titled The Best Video Game Podcast. And it says, I was looking for a new podcast with a good backlog to do homework to. There was a large lack of good video game podcasts. I was very lucky that Spotify recommended me this. It's amazing. It's very engaging and helps me focus.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Anyway, great podcast. 10 out of 10, I would recommend.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Buckle up because we're about to peer into our crystal ball and talk about some of the strangest things that... might happen this year. Will they come true? Probably not. But if any of them do, we're going to look like geniuses. We'll get into the hot takes in just a minute. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
I feel like it's the only problem. It's like then there's no wiggle room to get better, man. It's like your rating system on our leaderboard, Ryan. You're like, I can't give these games perfect 10s because then there's nowhere to go. That's true. I will say, I feel like we're at our peak right now, Ryan. I feel like we are firing on all cylinders 10 out of 10.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Occasional backfire here and there, but you know, Hey, we're old guys. So Ryan, I am ready to get into some crazy bold predictions. Uh, let's do this, man. Yeah. Are you ready for some hot takes? Hot takes. That's hot. Yes. I'm sure you're putting that. I know that drop's coming in.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
All right. I'll tell you what. I'll start things off on this one, Ryan. All right. There's a little bit of spiciness to this one and a little bit, maybe not quite so spicy. But my first bold prediction for 2025 is a little bit of a two-parter. Number one, Assassin's Creed Shadows will release to mid-reviews. And Ubisoft will cease to exist in 2025. We getting some more layoffs?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Is that what you're saying? No, I'm saying that Assassin's Creed Shadows is not going to be the game, the savior that they were hoping for. I think it'll be fine. It's going to get a 7 out of 10, whatever, like every other game. But it's going to get a 7 out of 10. It's not going to be this company-saving release that people were hoping it's going to be. And with its...
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
relative failure as far as sales and things like that for Ubisoft go. Ubisoft is going to get bought out by another company and they're going to cease to exist this year. That is my bold prediction. I think they've been on their last leg for a while. Now, Everybody that's listening and has been listening for a while is like, listen, we all know how you guys feel about Ubisoft, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
You guys have been slamming Ubisoft for like a year now. Well, there's a reason for that. And that reason is pretty apparent in their stock prices and a lot of the things that Ubisoft has been saying lately because there's been a lot of rumors about a possible hostile takeover. I think that they are putting their faith in Assassin's Creed shadows to kind of write the ship, so to speak.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And I don't think it's going to happen. And I think when that happens, they're going to basically look to sell the company and just say, hey, we can't fix this. This ship is sinking. We're bailing. Let somebody else worry about it. And I think that's what's going to happen, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
It's weird to me because there's, again, you know, people are like, listen, we know you guys don't like Ubisoft. This doesn't seem like that hot of a take.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Ubisoft is one of the largest developers, dude. Legitimately, think about the franchises that they have, the size that Ubisoft kind of swelled to in the heyday of Assassin's Creed, and just the games that they were making, Far Cry and some of these other just major, major franchises. To see a company like Ubisoft actually fold... And either go under or get bought out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And joining me, my bold prediction is he'll be forced to try Elden Ring this year and it will end up being one of his favorite games ever. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
It's much more likely that they just get bought out than just completely close up shop because there's a lot of money involved there. But to have that actually happen to such a major studio is not very common and is going to be pretty like earth shattering in the gaming industry.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Let me just to give context to this. Right. Here's a few of the franchises that is under the Ubisoft banner. OK, we talked about Assassin's Creed, probably the most well-known Far Cry, you know, 1A, 1B type thing. We've also got Rainbow Six Siege, Watch Dogs, The Division. You know, Tom Clancy's games are under the Ubisoft banner.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Rayman, Star Wars Outlaws, For Honor, which is kind of dead but was a big game for a while there. I mean, this is no slouch of a company that's been making video games for decades now. But I'm calling it right now, man. I think 2025 is the death of Ubisoft.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And it's not that we wish failure on them. We don't ever want to see that happen. But that is my take. I do not think that Assassin's Creed Shadows is going to be the savior that the company is hoping for.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Roll it, roll it, roll it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
I, it's crazy to me because that doesn't sound like that bold of a take in the world of like AI and chat GPT and grok and things like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
But that's the thing. Here's the thing for me with AI. I know that there's a lot of backlash over AI art and things like that. AI is coming. I'm not sure that there's much that we can do as people to push back against that. I do think that we need to know if something was made with AI. Some of these videos now are getting crazy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
If you're spamming dodge roll, you're doing it wrong, Ryan. That's what it looks like.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And I do think that there needs to be a little watermark that says made with AI or something like that in it. But if let's put it this way, if a game releases later this year, right. And it says, Hey, this game was made by a hundred percent by AI. And that game is just dumb, stupid fun, right? Like let's think lethal company. Okay. Okay. Like lethal company, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Like simple game, super, super fun to play with friends was probably fairly easy to develop. And I don't mean that as a negative to the developers. I just mean like, it's not a super advanced game. Yeah. The premise is simple, but it caught on like wildfire. If AI makes a game like that, And it comes out and people go, dude, this game is just fun. That is going to open the floodgates. Oh, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Do you know what I mean? For developers to say, cool, we tried it. People like it. This can work in theory. I think all it takes is that one example for gamers to say, dude, we are gamers. We just want to play games and have fun. We will always support indie devs and things like that. But there is very much a world where this is coming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
about this dude like we talk about unreal engine five and and again if i sound ignorant right here number one people are used to that but number two you know i'm not a developer but in a sense isn't an engine like unreal engine five that is making these phenomenal graphics right and these textures and these landscapes and i've watched some of the demos
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
We don't know if these predictions are coming true. In fact, they're probably not. But, you know. That's a point of hot takes, man. Hot takes. Yes. These episodes are so much fun. All right, listen. We're going to get into the episode here in just a second. We actually have a couple of reviews to read before we get into it. But I got to preface this by saying. Yes, we are crazy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Isn't that in essence, kind of sort of like AI, because this program is generating the scenery for you. And yes, you have to place it and you have to say, Hey, I want this cliff here and this mountain here and this shrubbery over here. But like, it's, it's the thing that's making that, you know what I mean? Like unreal engine five games are readily recognizable because they have similarities.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And so I figure like, it's almost like we're kind of there already. So I, I don't disagree with you, man. The only thing I hesitate on is, will it be this year? Because it is coming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, it is coming. I am curious to see what happens with it. It's weird because, again, I know there's some controversy and, oh, this is going to put developers out of business and stuff like that. The gaming industry as a whole is very volatile in the first place. And I feel like people that are in it kind of know that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And while we don't want to see AI take jobs from people at the same time, I'm not sure that this is going away either. And so it's like, I'm curious to see what they can do with it, how they implement it, what the end product is. Because if it sucks, that's going to really, really hurt that industry. Yeah. But if a game comes out that it's like, dude, this game was made with AI.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
And again, people go, well, this game's a lot of fun, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Bold Gaming Predictions and Hot Takes - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I think you're right. I think they will kind of do a little teaser to see before they come out and just say it too. And Ryan, you talked about money. I don't know that we've ever said this on the show, but just to give people perspective, the gaming industry is larger than the movie industry and the music industry combined. Dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So I just have to, like, smoke cigarettes and be rude? Ha, a medicum.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, there you go. Well, I don't smoke cigarettes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Einfach signen. Das ist so wild, weil das ist, was wir waren. Ich meine, wir haben über es schon lange gesprochen. Man, Playstation. Was ist Xbox und Microsoft going to do? Wie werden sie Sony bewegen? Wie werden sie Playstation bewegen? Sie haben all diese Exklusiven. Sie haben ein besseres System. Wie What is going to happen here?
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And I mean, I found myself, I signed up, same with you, John, I got the backbone, I'm like, you know what, I'm going to sign up for the, because I had the Game Pass for the PC, I'm like, I'm going to do the Ultimate, get it for my Xbox that I have, because I do have an Xbox, and then it'll work for my phone as well, because I have the Xbox app on my phone.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
And then my daughter comes to me, she's like, Dad, there's so many games on here. I downloaded this, I downloaded that. She's like, this is awesome. And it was like 10 bucks more than what I was already paying for the PC one. So to have the ability to have... For a buffet of games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, access to this library where it's like, all right, kid, you go and try whatever you want and figure out what you want to play and love. And I don't have to go shell out 60, 70, soon to be 80 dollars for a game that the kid may not like, you know, when they're getting day one access. Like, Das ist für mich, das ist, das ist Xbox, das macht das, das geht zurück.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Sony und Playstation werden in irgendeiner Art und Weise antworten müssen. Ich weiß nicht, was es sein wird, aber ich bin beeindruckt, wie das passiert und wie alles gespielt wird.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Nein, aber du verstehst nicht, du kannst schlagen. Warte, wie auf dem Boden? Du kannst schlagen in drei. Wie auf dem Boden, Mann, du kannst schlagen.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
You can, but you can also slide. I don't think you're getting it. You can slide.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
You guys are ridiculous.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
In a world where grapple hooks and sliding didn't exist. Coming to you late this fall. Borderlands 4.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
It's hard to keep the core of something that was so innovative and changed gaming, but then re-innovate as you progress with keeping what you were. I get it, but also it's almost like it is lazy development. I'm not a developer, I don't know what it is, but it's hard to say that once you get established and you're making your fourth version of a game... How innovative are you going to be?
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Like, hey, this has worked. Let's do it again and do a couple new things, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Ja, Simmer, Simmer weg.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
At least something was worth that $40.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Let it out. Come on, get it out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Es ist einer der besten Franchise jemals. GTA 6, so großartig es sein wird, vielleicht einer der besten Spiele jemals. Wie anders wird es von GTA 5 sein? Yeah, exactly. Your gameplay, your missions, all your stuff, it'll be... viel ähnlicher als Half-Life 3 zu Half-Life 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
That's what you get. I'm not touching anything.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Also der Vergleich und Kontrast, es ist alles, Mann, nur um zu bekommen, ich will nicht, ich weiß nicht, warum wir darüber sprechen, weil es nicht passieren wird, es ist nicht die echte Welt. Ich glaube nicht, bis ich es sehe. Ja, bis Half-Life 3 in meinen Händen ist und ich es spiele, werde ich es nicht glauben, auch wenn es Demos gibt, weil dann werden sie sagen, oh, egal.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
So, I just, it's one of those things that, I mean, we've been waiting 20 years for this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Oh, I hope they shadow drop it. Oh my gosh, I hope they shadow drop it so bad. That would be the sickest thing ever.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Ever. Half-Life 3 might be, dude. All time. Witcher 4?
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Tell me. That's like 20 years difference. What do you mean? The amount of people and the amount of games sold within that time frame are substantially different.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
96% on Metacritic?
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
You want to know what GTA's is?
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Half-Life 2, 29 million copies as of one year ago.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
A little bit, a little bit. Dude, I don't know what's going on right now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Nobody wants to see me. I'm not in costume, so nobody wants to see me anyway. Oh my goodness, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Jostradamus right here. It's great, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I agree. It's just, it's so frustrating, like Ich meine, sechs Monate, acht Monate, was auch immer der Zeitraum sein wird auf deinen Verlangen, ich verstehe nicht, wie diese Entwickler das nicht vorsehen können.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Ich weiß, dass ich das schon gesagt habe, aber du musst eine Idee haben, wie, oh, wir können es nicht erreichen, du weißt, in einer Woche oder zwei, das ist eine Sache, aber sechs Monate, acht Monate, das ist eine lange Zeit, das ist viel Entwicklung, die in ein Spiel geht, wie, Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja. 15 Jahre zu warten für ein Spiel, weißt du?
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Guys. It was like you smacked Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
I'll even wear my outfit.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Please do. Please do.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
They followed suit, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Borderlands 4 Reveal, GTA 6 Delayed, and… Half-Life 3!? – TWIG | Gaming Podcast
Ha ha ha! You're looking a little different today, Ryan. I am. I'm actually kind of sad. I enjoy dressing up. It was a fun time.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
The whole rest of this episode is just ways to trigger Ryan at this point.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. There is nothing like gaming to bring people together, and there's nothing like seeing the impact that gaming can have on people, whether it's a first playthrough of one of the all-time greats, the excitement of a new console, or your first gaming convention.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
So to introduce you to the listeners, you lead the gaming division at the Make-A-Wish Foundation, which, oh my goodness, what an incredible thing that instantly just makes me smile. So tell us a little bit more about yourself and about what you do at Make-A-Wish.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
To be fair to The Witcher 3, it came out in 2015, and then Red Dead 2 came out in 2018. You'd think that in those three years they would have figured out movement a little bit, but no. They just went, eh, whatever.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
I am also with you, Ian. I mean, I think we all agree Witcher 3 is one of the greatest games ever made. So, you know, the game has really, really good controls and gameplay is that God of War, the game that actually won Game of the Year in 2018, that game was the true, you know, the true victor and rightfully so as well. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
All you need to do is just, all you have to do is accept the seven out of 10 and we can put this to bed.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
I can't go up to eight and a half. I'm sorry, guys. Sticking firm. Oh, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
All right. Listen, we got to take a quick break. And then when we get back, we want to hear about what some of your favorite games are beyond the Rockstar games here. So we'll be right back in just a second. All right. We are back chatting with Ian from the Make-A-Wish America. Oh, my goodness. I am loving this episode already. Ryan, sorry for the trolling there.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
That was completely unplanned as well. So, you know, this is what is great about this. But getting to know Ian a little bit more. Ian, what are some of your favorite games over maybe the last few years or something, just so we can kind of get an idea of your taste in games?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. No build mode was the best thing they did for that game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
I saw you mention that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
That's awesome. I have a love-hate relationship with Hearthstone. I was very, very big into Hearthstone when it was new and all that, and then got out of it for a while. And then when they released Battlegrounds, it's the only auto-battler game I play, but everybody needs that game that they can just almost tune out and still play. Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
And it's like if I'm eating at my desk for whatever reason or I'm working on something else, it's like, oh, let me play this because I can pay a little bit of attention to it for like 60 seconds and then I can kind of turn it off and get something done on the side. And I love that those games fill that role because it's like everybody kind of needs that type of game to play when they need it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
When it's like, hey, I just need a little distraction, but I actually have to focus on something too. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
That's so awesome. Oh, man. All right. So we got to put you to the test here, right? We like to be stupid. We come up with stupid ideas and episodes because it's just kind of the fun thing that friends do. So what video game character do you think that you could take in a fight? And still have it be a close fight.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
Have it be a close fight, but I win or they win?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
I can win, but it's still going to be close. Because it's like I'd smash.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
I'd smash Toad in a fight. That's not a fair fight. Toad, dude, I'm going to destroy him. But what character do you think would be close in a fight?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
I think you could do it. Yoshi is mine. You think Yoshi? Yeah, screw that guy, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
He'd probably get a bite or two in on me or whatever, but I'm choking him out, man. Oh, gosh. Oh, man. All right. So let's see one more question here and then we're going to move on and talk a little bit more about what it's like to actually grant a wish for somebody. Let's let's do this one. How about this? Is there a game coming out in 2025 that is at the just absolute top of your hype meter?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
Dude, we're very excited to have you, man. Yeah, that is awesome. So you mentioned you handle the fundraising and the gaming division at Make-A-Wish. Is that kind of like a 50-50 split? Is it more like, hey, I try to get people to support this awesome cause, and when gaming comes up, that's kind of my wheelhouse and people kind of point them in my direction? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
This is the funny thing about Avowed, too. This is something we see as gamers, too. If you go online, everybody hates everything. right? Or it's, I love everything and I can't ever criticize anything. And then it's like, dude, come on. That's like just as bad. This is a terrible game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
So, so it's funny because if you go online and you, you see people are like, Oh, a valid's just kind of mid. Um, every gamer that I have talked to that is actually playing avowed has been like, dude, this game's great. Like, you know, it's not the best game I've ever played, but like, this is a modern feeling Skyrim ask type game. Like what's not to love.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
Um, but you know, tell us a little bit more about that. Like, are you directly involved in the like granting of wishes that are gaming related and stuff like that?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
That's awesome, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
It really... I watched the video of the... I don't remember the kid's name now, but that got to be... He created a video game with the Xbox Studios and stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So that's my next question then. Cause I, you know, we like to ask the questions that pop into our heads and stuff like that. And it's like, cause I, we think our listeners are probably thinking the same thing here. So it's like, is there a type of wish that is like,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
is like the hardest wish to kind of say, Hey man, like we, we can, we can try to do this, but this one's going to be tough, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
It puts life in perspective when we complain about the little things like traffic and this and that, or, Oh, I got to go to work today. You know what I mean? And it's just like, I think there's something there that, um, Honestly, I don't know a person in the world that honestly doesn't love what Make-A-Wish does. You know what I mean?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
The joys are endless, and the impact gaming can have on people cannot be understated. Today, we're diving into the gift of gaming and the impact it can have on people. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, as Buddy the Elf would say, he's a cotton-headed ninny muggins. And his motto is, I just like to smile. Smiling's my favorite. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
I think you see this response from just about everybody where, again, if you're at TwitchCon and you mention it, somebody's like, oh, absolutely, dude. Let us get in on that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
Exactly, because it's just such a... It's such a noble thing. And I think, again, people just want to be a part of that. And I think it does for people that might be outside that process. I think it's perspective for people to say, dude, there's a lot more to life than work and traffic and these little things that we complain about. And I think that's necessary for people. So... Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
All right, so I mean, it sounds freaking awesome to be able to work in the gaming division of Make-A-Wish, right? I imagine that this involves talking to studios at times, talking to developers when you're trying to help a wish come true. Getting to meet the people that are making these wishes, is it as awesome as it sounds?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
So my brain has to go to this and I don't mean this to sound like negative in any way, but like, you know, it's just something that like my brain kind of goes like, man, that's a lot of pressure to grant this wish. Like, is there ever the worry or that moment of like, you're about to grant a wish and then you just go like, dude, please let this be as cool as we think it's going to be.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
This is awesome, dude. I, it just goes to show you that like gaming, like we, we have been saying this since we've started this podcast, man is like, you know, and we kind of touched on it earlier. Gaming brings people together. Um, we have had a, a, a psychologist on the podcast to talk about like the bonds that are made through gaming and things like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
And how they are legitimate like friendships and important to people's lives and things like that. You know, it's something that we stress. Our community is fantastic. We say it all the time. We hate that there is this like sub branch of gaming that has become like toxic. Let me just put people down and try to make, you know, and a lot of the negative kind of connotations that go with that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
And this is something that we're very passionate about is kind of promoting gaming's for everybody. Everybody's entitled to an opinion. It's okay to have opinions on things just because they're different doesn't mean that somebody has to be wrong and things like that. And this is just awesome to see like how gaming can impact people's lives.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
I mean, you guys are literally getting people that are saying, this is my wish, you know, and it's gaming related. And I think that that indicates, you know, again, the importance of gaming and the escapism that it can be, the bonds that people can form through that. And we absolutely love it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
So one of the things we always do is we always like to say, hey, you know, what's something really important that we can bring up?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
on the show and when we asked you that obviously you said hey make a wish and the fact that it's the world wish month so can you explain what world wish month is and if there is a link or something that somebody can go to we'll put it in the episode description but we want to make sure we kind of put that in front of people as well definitely definitely
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
We absolutely love what you guys do. It's the same thinking, right? Good people do good things for people, and good things happen. And it's just one of those things where Ryan mentioned it. We're very staunch believers. We've kind of been pushing this. The saddest thing to us is somebody that goes, I want to play this game, but I don't have any friends to play with. Yeah, that sucks.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
I will play with you. That's literally our answer is you come, come join our community. We'll play with you or, you know, because that's something that nobody should not be able to do. And with what you guys do, especially, it's just, we want to, we want to support that. We want our listeners to support that. And, and, you know, we appreciate you coming on the show and hanging out with us.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
And so this donation is just a thank you for what you guys all do and for what you do as part of that as a bigger whole, man. It's really impressive. I mean, I know I've gotten chill bumps about three or four times this episode.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
No, not at all, man. And so it's just one of those things that as gamers, this is what we want, man. This is what we want other gamers to do as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, absolutely. Dude, this is, this has been freaking awesome, dude. It's such an incredible thing to try to bring gaming to the world, to share the experiences. I mean, honestly, the friendships that we make along the way. I mean, you're hanging out with us and we get along really good. It's like the start of a friendship right here. I love it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
Whether you're escaping the trials of life, a hard day, getting to be that wizard or that cyberpunk assassin, it really just means a lot to the people that are in it. And so we do have one before we go, because we're about to close out the show, but we do have one more tough question for you. So you spend your time and the people you work with spend your time fulfilling people's bucket list items.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
So we have to ask, what is your bucket list item?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
My wife and I watch Hell's Kitchen and Kitchen Nightmares. We're big fans of Gordon Ramsay.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
He's one of the most kind-hearted people out there, but he comes across with that attitude and it's so funny because it's exactly the opposite of who he actually is. I think it's funny. It kind of tickles my mind.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
anytime like he's like he's super great about it so yeah he'd be on my list as well awesome well listen everybody that's gonna do it for this episode we're gonna put the links if you want to be a wish maker we'll put the links in the episode like ian said just get you know just participate in any way that you can i mean i'll be honest this is absolutely my favorite charity man i mean i
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
absolutely love what you guys do there's a lot of really good charities out there but this one just touches people's hearts man and getting involved in that is awesome thank you for coming on and giving your time to this to this podcast and just being silly and talking video games with some dudes you know we hope people enjoyed it that will do it for this episode everybody make sure you click the link support make a wish thank you ian so much for joining us that's it for this one until next time happy gaming
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
See ya!
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
I love it, man. I don't know if this is a famous saying or not, but it's like if you're having a bad day, do something nice for somebody. Sure. Because it'll instantly turn your day around and you'll feel better. And it really kind of gets us out of that, oh, this day sucks kind of mentality and stuff. And yeah, I mean, you're right. Doing good for people inherently makes us feel good by nature.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
And it makes you wonder why we don't do that more often.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
It's contagious, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
Okay, so that's how this is going to go. When's the last time you saved a cat, Ryan? Yeah, when's the last time you... Ryan actually did save a cat.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
I already have two cats, and three is the... I can't go more than that, man. So...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
And joining us, he doesn't smell like beef and cheese. And if gaming had a Santa Claus, this might just be him because he can be found spreading gaming cheer throughout the world.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
Honestly, it is really funny. Cause my wife is somewhat of a gamer, but she's very, very niche in like the game choices. Like it has to be Nintendo and it has to be like Zelda or Mario. But if it's one of those two things, she will get completely engrossed in it and just play it for hours at a time until she beats the game. And then she kind of looks around and is like, well, what do I do now?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
And I'm like, you know, there's a lot of Mario games out there, right? There's a few. Going back a couple years, yeah. My dad is in his mid-70s, and we got him a Quest 2 for Christmas a few years ago. Nice, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's all he does now. Legitimately, it's all he does. My mom will be like, your dad played The Quest 2 for three hours last night.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
He's making friends in the multiverse, and he's doing these online co-op things.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
Oh, that's okay. That's okay. You're the gaming Santa Claus. And now, right now, this is where people are going, wait, what? Wait, Santa? Santa? I know him! I know him! You're not Santa.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. All right. So, Ian, we always ask people before they come on the show, we kind of like to get a little bit of info up front. Ryan's looking. He's sighing already. I think that's all we have for today, folks. I love this so much. So, Ian, we asked you for a hot take. All right. And I, man, I'm with you.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
I mean, man, it seems like, you know what, us bearded gents, you know, with the handsome faces and this like really good gaming knowledge, I feel like we're just kind of on a different level, man. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. Okay. Well, thank you for joining the Buddy the Elf podcast. Yeah, right. No, Ian, we are super excited to have you. And as much as we have teased this little you being the gaming Santa, why don't you... Well, actually, I'll just say it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
It hurts me to say it should be, but it's like, what are you doing? Like, what are we doing here? I have always maintained that. Listen, I fully admit that Red Dead Redemption 2 is one of the greatest video games that has ever been made. But I have been a staunch believer in that the gameplay is a 7 out of 10. And people go, what are you talking about? And it's the exact same thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Gift of Gaming: How Make-A-Wish Grants Gamers Dreams - Gaming Podcast
It's the controls. It's the shooting in that game. It's the weird, like when you press forward on the stick, there's that pause in the slight acceleration of the character where it feels like it's laggy. Right. It just takes a little bit to get going. It's the same thing when you stop. They kind of have to come to a stop. And it's just not snappy.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
It is pretty good, man. It's very hard for me with somebody that's got 1,700 hours in Overwatch to not compare any kind of hero shooter to Overwatch by nature. And obviously, there's a lot of comparisons with Marvel rivals. But I will say that I had a very good time playing this game during the open beta that they had. And it's very polished. It's a lot of fun. The characters feel unique.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
It's easy to pick up. Kind of hard to master, which is what a hero shooter should be in that regard. So I would highly recommend people at least giving it a try because I had a lot of fun with it. And I'm really looking forward to it releasing on December 6th as well. I'll be honest, I'm not going to play it for a little while because I'm going to be so wrapped up in Path of Exile.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
It is a fun game. I do have some hands-on experience with it. And I would give it a recommend from what I got to play with it. Ryan, one more game. And I know you're excited about this game. So this is your moment, Ryan. Indiana Jones and the Great Circle is coming out December 9th. So is only a few days away. We got a recent game kind of like release trailer.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
So it was a new trailer showing off some of the gameplay and a little bit more of the story. Ryan, I feel like you are way more excited for Indiana Jones than I am, so the roles are reversed now, so I'm going to stare at you blankly while you tell me why you're so excited about this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Sometimes the best part of gaming is just chatting with your gaming buddies about the latest news, upcoming game releases. Did somebody say Path of Exile 2? Or asking each other dumb video game related questions like, which evil villain are you most like?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I need you hyped, Ryan. I feel so alone.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I will say, especially from the trailer that they literally just released that showed off a little bit more of the gameplay and stuff. It did get me a little bit more excited for this game because they show you interacting with like you're down in a dungeon or like, you know, an old ruins or something. And you're trying to figure out like this puzzle.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
That's not the point. I know you're going to join in, you know, and then you're going to be like, whoa, this is awesome. But I need somebody to make me not feel crazy about my hype level for this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And there's these spinning platforms that you actually wind up jumping on. and trying not to fall off and stuff. So a little bit more like the controls and the action part of the game was showcased a little bit. And it kind of made me feel like, okay, this actually looks pretty cool, man. Like he's using his whip in different ways that they hadn't shown before.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And it looks like you're actually trying to make your way through these old ruins that you might've discovered. And it kind of gave me that indie feel that I wanted from like an Indiana Jones game. Very reminiscent of the opening to Raiders of the Lost Ark where he's running from the boulder and stuff like that. So this is weird. Because I'm not going to play this game. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
It's just I know in my brain that I'm going to get busy with other stuff. There's too many. The holidays are going to get here. It's going to be 2025 and games are going to be releasing. And this is one of those games that for me will just kind of go by the wayside. But I'll always go like, I wonder if that's a good game. Or I'll watch a review or something and be like, oh, cool.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
But I'll just never get to experience this game. and I want it to be good, you know? So I'm kind of hoping that you play it maybe, and then you can, you know, I can live vicariously for you.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
So, all right, listen, we've got some fun questions to get into, but we do have to take a short break before we get that. So we will be right back. All right, Ryan, we're back. That kind of wraps up the updates and news portion for this episode. Let's have a little bit of fun, Ryan. We always like to ask some of these questions and chat games and things like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Ryan, what's a game that you used to love, but you just can't stand anymore?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
All right. That's fair. Don't worry, everybody. We're going to talk about Path of Exile 2 here in just a little bit. But first, Ryan, we do have a little bit of housekeeping to do. We have another new supporter of the show. Oh, my goodness. The support has been pouring in. Man, we can't thank y'all enough. Honestly, we've been doing this for years now, legitimately for years now.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Was it the commercialization? Was it the expansions? Did you feel like it was just money grabs?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
It's weird because I have played Destiny 2. We did a deep dive on it. I never played the original Destiny. I can understand why people love the game. I mean, I definitely had a good time with it. I had my complaints about kind of some of the bloat at the point where we did the deep dive on it. But...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Even for somebody that wasn't really into it, it's weird because from the outside, if I had to guess, I would say it's like I feel like they lost their passion for the game and it just became a business moneymaker. And so the passion that they originally had just wasn't there anymore. And it was more about we need to ship this expansion. We need people to buy this stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And I feel like they just kind of lost their way. I could be wrong, but it doesn't sound like it. But from an outside perspective, that's kind of what it felt like for somebody that wasn't directly involved.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Well, I mentioned... Ryan, you got to witness a rare Josh Rage session the other day.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I mean, okay, semi-rare. Uncommon? We'll go uncommon.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
We'll go uncommon, yeah. Uncommon Rage. Freaking Hearthstone, man. I played so much Hearthstone back in the day. It was one of my favorite games for a very long time. Battlegrounds came out, drew me back in. And then I got really, really mad at Blizzard for everything and uninstalled Overwatch and Hearthstone and all that for probably a solid six to eight months, if not longer.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And then I got sucked back into Overwatch. I'm not going to lie. I'm having a lot of fun with that. And then I kind of went, well, I mean, I could probably give Hearthstone a try again. And I was having some fun with it. Here's the problem. I am a super competitive person, and I am the kind of person where difficulty rings true for me, which is why I love Elden Ring.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I want to be the person that fails. I don't want RNG, so I don't want randomness to affect the outcome for me because I get really frustrated at that. And the other day I was playing Hearthstone and it was like the worst bad luck you could possibly imagine. And I raged in our private... We have a private like for friends Discord server.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And I went off for probably five minutes, wrote up this giant paragraph of why this is the stupidest game ever. And I can't stand that randomness comes into play, especially in a competitive game where I have like a rating that's involved in all this stuff. And I... After five minutes of just raging, finally was like, I hate this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And then I came back like two minutes later and I was like, you know what, man? I'm uninstalling this crap. And then I backed it up with a screenshot showing that I had uninstalled. And so, yeah, that's my answer for this one. Forget you, Hearthstone. Stupid game. I remember why I uninstalled you the first time now. Yeah, but also it's a fun game, so...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
if you don't mind randomized stuff affecting the outcome that you had no control over either. So that's all I got to say about that. All there is about that. Yeah. All right. Well, I feel my blood pressure going up. I know, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, moving on. All right, Ryan. So here's a good one. Taking a look at our leaderboard, what's a hidden gem that you'd recommend to somebody that they might not either be aware of or haven't played or you think just deserves a mention as a reminder for people to say, hey, don't sleep on this game?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
We pour our hearts and souls into this. We spend a lot of time trying to bring people the best content that we can bring them. We really prioritize this podcast over a lot of other things in life. And I mean, we do it because we love it. Don't get me wrong.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
It is one of those experiences that it's a very memorable game to where anybody that has played Heavy Rain will go like, oh, man, that game is insane. And it is one of those ones that leaves you thinking about it even after you play it. What's crazy is when we did our deep dive on it, we had a lot of people that picked it up. And almost universally, people were like, dude, this game is insane.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And it's so memorable. I'm so glad that I played this because I can't believe I had been missing out on this experience. So it is one of those experiences that everybody should have. So I'm with you on that one for sure. For me, this is a game that we played... Way back in the day, well, I don't want to say way back, but a couple years ago, we really had no idea what to expect.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
But to see people like enjoy what we put out to the world and then want to be a part of that and kind of support this podcast really does mean the world to us. So when anytime we see we always get an email that says, hey, so and so has signed up.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And it's a game called The Forgotten City. So this is basically like a mod that came about from Skyrim. And you can definitely feel the influence on that. And then it got turned into a fully fledged game. But it is, it's just so good, man. And I have never heard anybody except for us on this podcast talk about it. It involves a time loop. It involves these really neat moral choices.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
So the premise, this is not spoilery, but the premise is that you find these old ruins and then you get teleported into back in time. And in this city, it is this utopia that exists where... If anybody commits a sin, the entire city will be destroyed. And so it is a society that is trying to live together without anybody doing anything wrong. And as you start to play the game...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Things go wrong and your job is to kind of figure out what happens, but you get in this time loop where the game will reset every time something happens to go wrong. And so through playing this game, you start to learn a little bit more about the people and what's going on in the mystery and the kind of intrigue behind it. And how can you stop this crime from happening?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And it is such a neat game that is so well executed that, again, kind of like Heavy Rain. I will always remember playing Forgotten City just because of how unique it was and how fun it was. And it just is very well done. The time loop is done well. But the sense of mystery and discovery and like, how do I stop this from happening? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And trying like 20 different ways and then slowly figuring out the little snippets of like the little breadcrumbs that they give you to kind of lead you in the right direction was honestly flawless in my opinion. So I highly recommend looking that up. Again, it's called The Forgotten City.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And you and I love them. It doesn't matter how many times. It doesn't matter how many people. Every single time that happens, you and I instantly like message each other on Discord. And we're like, dude, you see that we got a new supporter.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I've never heard a single person mention this game. Not on social media, not anywhere. Not that we have exclusiveness to this, but it's one of those games where, again, we talk about hidden gems. Forgotten City is well worth it. It's probably a 10-hour game total. And what's the price? Do you still have it pulled up?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Are you kidding me?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, it was a mod that I don't know if it's a fan-made mod or what. But yeah, go check that out.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
No, I don't think so. It's just... What a dedicated community, man. Because then you have, like, Gary's Mod, which was... Wait, isn't Gary's Mod a Half-Life mod, though? I can't remember. I've never played Gary's Mod. I've seen it a bunch, and I know that's one of the most, like, millions of copies sold kind of thing. But I'll be honest. I don't remember what that's tied to. So... All right, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Here's a host question for you. All right. What's the luckiest thing that's ever happened to you?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
You never won like a contest or something free or anything like that? Dude, I...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Really? Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
i'm sure that's crazy because i once found a bag on the highway that had fifty thousand dollars in it so now i'm just kidding i did well don't say it on the radio no i'm kidding i'm kidding i'll be honest like i'm kind of with you in that sense that i don't know if like maybe i'm just not very lucky but it's like we've never had anything like in that like you know like that where it's like oh i found 20 grand or something yeah it
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
My wife won some tickets to Cirque du Soleil when they came to Phoenix one time and they were like $80 tickets. And so I remember she, it was like a local news station. Then you had to comment on a Facebook post or something. And she did. And then they actually like messaged her and were like, Hey, you won these tickets. You can come pick them up. And my wife was like, won tickets.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And it was like, you know, it was, they were good seats. They're probably like $200 worth. Yeah. And so, but that's like the only thing that could come to mind for me is like, yeah. And I know that sounds like it's kind of a negligible thing, but I'm with you in the sense that it's like, I think your outlook on life kind of affects your
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
you know that like your luck yeah in a sense you know but it's like i'm not a gambler even though i know you love gambling and i know a lot of people will say oh i had good luck tonight and i know there's a lot of strategy behind like betting and blackjack and stuff like that too so yeah winning free tickets is about the luckiest thing that i think's ever happened actually hold on i want to take everything back i said there's this one thing that happened one time and this is probably why i'm still alive
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
All right. I'll take it, too, because it means you're here doing this podcast. There we go. All right, Ryan. Let's talk about the year as a whole. We've got our end of the year episode coming up. Yes. On a scale of one to ten, how would you rate 2024 as a whole for gaming? you know, this is, this is a pretty good question. This is a tough question. This is a tough one.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, it's really hard to voice the feeling that we get from people enjoying this podcast and like I said, wanting to be a part of it and stuff like that. So a huge thank you to new supporter Raven who signed up with rare status. Raven, I don't know if you're on our Discord. I don't think you are. So if you aren't, Click the link in the episode description. Come on in. Say hi.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Let me name a few games for people. Yeah, list them off. Let's hear what there is. So we had Space Marine 2. Yes. We had Stellar Blade, which I never got to play, but I'm still very interested in. We had Senua's Saga Hellblade 2 come out. We had PAL World that released and took the world by storm. We had Helldivers 2, which came out very early.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Early in the year, which really took the world by storm. We had Dragon's Dogma 2, which we were super hyped for. We had Elden Ring Shadow of the Ur-Tree, which famously people said shouldn't be up for a Game of the Year nomination, but it released this year. I thought that game was absolutely fantastic. We had Black Myth Wukong, which we had been following since the day it was announced.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Bellatro, which, again, talk about a game that took the world by storm. It's an awesome cult. I love it. I mean, I... Honestly, I might actually pick up Bellatro here. I don't own it, and I need a card game to play. And since I hate Hearthstone now, I'm thinking about picking up Bellatro. You're going to make Steve very happy.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And then we had Astrobot, which kind of came out of nowhere. I mean, the list goes on and on. We have Star Wars Outlaws that we almost didn't play and then wound up playing, and it was better than we thought. I'm not going to bring up Dragon Age Veilguard because we didn't like that game. even though we were excited for its release.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I mean, there's been a lot of games that I know that we have been excited for that have come out. Not all of them have met the hype level that we had for them, but it feels like it's been a pretty strong year.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I'm with you. I will say that sometimes the hype, I feel like there's a lot of games. And again, this might be just a personal fault. I get very excited very easy. I know the feeling. It's funny because I literally was telling my wife about Path of Exile 2 on Friday. I'm like, baby, don't expect anything from me. I'm totally not a dad or husband this weekend.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I've been looking forward to this game for a week now because... Cause I just realized how good it looks, you know? And she, she laughed at me and she said, you say that like every other week, she's like, what's that stalker game that you said you were super excited for, you know? And it's like, Oh yeah, well I was excited for that. Yeah, exactly.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
So, and so again, this might be a little bit of personal, uh, you know, issue, but like, I do feel like there were some games that I was very excited about that. I was slightly disappointed in that. It doesn't mean that they weren't great games, uh, But like Dragon's Dogma 2, I was hoping was going to be like the next Witcher 3.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And while that is a perfectly good video game, it wasn't what I was hoping it was going to be. You know, Black Myth Wukong, phenomenal game up for game of the year. It was just missing a little bit of something for me where it was still a really good game, but not quite what I wanted it to be. But then we had Astro Bot, which came out of nowhere that was way better than it had any right to be.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
We got an awesome community. We'd love to thank you there as well. But thank you for supporting the show. And listen, if you want to be like Raven or all the other people that help make this podcast possible, you can head over to MultiplayerSquad.com right now. You can pause the episode. We won't get upset. Go sign up. Come on back. And you'll get a shout out, too, on a future episode as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Um, so I'm, I'm going to give it an eight. I'm actually just slightly under you because I do feel like it was a very, very strong year for video games. Um, hell divers too, in my opinion, and Astro bot are what are carrying this for me. Yeah, for sure. Otherwise I would give it like a seven and just call it good, you know, but not great.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
But those two games, I think really bump it up a whole point in my opinion. So, um, All right, Ryan, we're running low on time. We got to end things with a food question, dude. And we have a kind of a little holiday food question here. We're going to play a little game of good or garbage. It's the holiday food edition.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
So I'm going to list a food and then you just tell me whether you think it's good or you think it's garbage. And we don't have to explain if you don't want to. But we'll just leave it at that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I didn't. I actually tried to think of like what holiday foods were. And I mean, I don't want to say ham because it's like, dude, ham's delicious. And everybody just had ham for Thanksgiving. So I tried to keep it a little bit more like Christmas oriented. Okay. The problem is it's a lot of like sugar. And I know that you're not the biggest fan of sugar. So...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
But they may also realize that it's like, are there any Christmas foods that are salty? It doesn't seem so. No, it doesn't seem so. All right, so first up, Ryan, eggnog. Garbage. Garbage for me, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Thick, sweet. My wife loves eggnog. What's really weird about eggnog is I like the first sip of eggnog. I always go, ooh. Like, yeah, that's pretty good. And then I don't want any more of it. Okay. Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Okay. Because I can't imagine drinking an entire glass of eggnog, but that sip is good. I'm like, okay, that was tasty. But even if it gets you drunk, I'm like, no, no, thank you. That helps me kind of understand your, your take on sweets there. So, well, another sweets, Ryan carrot cake. Garbage. Nah, carrot cake's good, dude. Nah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Carrot cake is so underrated, man, because the seasoning, like the spices that's behind carrot cake is great. Peppermint bark. So for people that don't know, this is chocolate with crushed up peppermints on it, I guess. A very, very popular thing. Garbage. Garbage for me. I can't stand peppermint. And I don't like plain chocolate either. So those two just ruin each other. Candy canes.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
So that follows suit. Garbage. Garbage for me. I don't know why anybody likes candy canes. Even the fruity flavored ones. Like somebody went, peppermint sucks. Let's make some fruity. And I'm still like, these are garbage.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Gingerbread.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Oh, gingerbread. So good, dude. So now I'm not talking the cheesy gingerbread houses that come like they're three years in that box that are like, yeah, like don't know. I'm not. That is not. I don't even know that you're supposed to eat those things because that is garbage. Decorational like good gingerbread like or ginger snaps. Oh, man. So amazing. All right. And then finally, Ryan Fudge.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Garbage. Garbage for me. I don't like fudge. I don't like plain chocolate. I love chocolate in stuff or like as a base for things. Like give me a Reese's cup. Oh, man. But just plain soft chocolate does not do it for me at all.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Ryan, you mentioned we love reviews. We do. We do love us some reviews. We've had some really good reviews rolling in lately, too. I'll tell you what, man. The listeners have been on point lately.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I mean, I think a lot of these are garbage too. So... Oh, man. All right. Well, listen, I think that does it for this episode, Ryan. We're kind of right on time there. So just wanted to remind everybody, if you enjoy the podcast and you haven't done so already, make sure you follow us in your podcast app.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
It's either a plus button or a subscribe button, but that way you get all of our episodes the day that they release. It also helps us in the rankings and the algorithm. So make sure you do that. If you are not in our Discord server, you are missing out. What a phenomenal group of gamers. Just today, we had another person that said, hey, I've been listening for years.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I figured I'd finally pull the trigger. Joins the server, chatting video games. Everybody's super welcoming. It's not fake nicety. It really is just genuine gamers that love chatting games with people and stuff like that. So If you're not in our Discord server, click the link in the episode description and join us. It is family friendly. It's an awesome place to be for sure.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
You can follow us on socials at Video Gamers Pod. I've been posting a lot about Path of Exile 2, so you don't want to miss that. And if you want to help support the show, If you want to keep this thing rolling and growing and being awesome, you can do that over at MultiplayerSquad.com. You can sign up. It's very easy to sign up. You can sign up for as little as five bucks a month. I did some math.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
They're dialed in, man. It is funny because they really are. At this point, it's just like, dang, man. They keep one-upping each other. But if you leave us a review on Apple, there is a very good chance we're going to read it on the show like this one that comes in from Judicium 7. And it says a great gaming podcast by some truly genuine dudes.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I think that's like 20 cents a day. What? I'm not a mathematician, so don't hold me to that. I'm sure there's somebody that's going, that's not right.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I don't know, man. I'm just going to agree with whatever you say because I'm not doing the math right now. But basically, it's next to nothing. And it really does help keep this show going. And we really do appreciate it as well. Our next episode is Stalker 2. I know we've been playing that a lot. We've had a lot of people asking us about it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
So that's going to be a great episode that comes out Monday. So be on the lookout for that one. And that's it. So until next time, happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I have been listening to the Video Gamers podcast for a number of years now, dating back to the days when they were the multiplayer gaming podcast. There honestly is no gaming podcast like this. The humility, genuineness, humor, and perfect touch of nerdiness of Josh and Ryan are the perfect mix. Not only is the podcast incredibly enjoyable, but it is also family-friendly.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
It's the fun, lighthearted chat that gamers know and love, and that's what we do in our side quest episodes. Before we get into the show, though, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, I think if I mention Path of Exile 2 one more time, he might just have me committed.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
No worrying about cussing in grotesque language coming from these gents. Every time I see a new episode is dropped, I start thinking about how soon I can start listening. When Paul, the previous host, had to step down, I couldn't imagine how difficult it was going to be to continue this as a two-man operation.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I can honestly say Josh and Ryan have done an outstanding job keeping the quality and genuine feel of this podcast going. Josh and Ryan, you should both be incredibly proud of what you have done with the Video Gamers podcast.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Man, there was a lot of uncertainty when Paul came to us and said, Hey, guys, I can't keep doing this. But we had so much support from people in the community and that listened to the podcast. We kept things going. And I'll be honest, man, I feel like we're in a really good groove. It's kind of like that sigh of relief to say, hey, we can do this and keep this thing going. We're having a blast.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
It's still growing. Everybody's been so supportive. So thank you, everybody out there. Thank you, Judicium7, for leaving that review because they make our day. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, we really are. Like I said, we've been having a blast, and we love the support, and we hope that everybody out there enjoys this. All right, Ryan, enough of this mushy stuff here. Let's get into this episode. We've got ourselves a side quest episode. These are fun, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
They're just a little bit of random stuff that we love to talk about, some questions that we kind of ask ourselves about games and just each other and life in general. We always like to start these off with just a general question, Ryan. what have you been playing lately? What are you up to? What are you, what are you doing, man?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Are you back in Astro Bot?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Four seconds seems like an eternity when you're like, dude, I just nailed that level. And then you realize you're four seconds away and you're like, how?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Dude, you should look into a game called Neon White that is legitimately the entire game is just that. And almost every single level you can beat in under 60 seconds. But it's all about time trials. Okay. And it will show you the ghost of like other people.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Why you're trying to do it to kind of see how they went about it and stuff too. That game's a lot of fun, man. And it's got a lot of neat mechanics to it. And you get like these little gun cards. So you have to like kill enemies during this, the level as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
So it's like, not only are you trying to do the platforming part, but you have to like whip around in like mid jump and like shoot a guy that's off to the side. And so it's super fun. You should, if you like time trial type stuff, dude, neon white would be right up your alley.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Okay, listen. You know, you're an excitable feller, just like I am. And the fact that you are not as excited as I am is driving me insane.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
It's nowhere near as good of a game as Astro Bot, but if that part of things entices you, that game would be something you'd enjoy. I don't need any more of that. Yeah, I know, right? It's funny because I've kind of been in my comfort zone with gaming. We are playing Stalker 2. We're going to record that episode actually in a few more days.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And so we're getting kind of close to the end of our play time with that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
um and then i've just i'm still in the overwatch train we've had a bunch of friends that have been playing so almost nightly we have three or four people on playing and that's been a lot of fun i'm resisting i'm trying i see a i see your son playing man and i keep wondering like i wonder when ryan's gonna be like hey guys like i'd hop in with you i told you i pick a ball i was watching him play for a minute because he got a player of the game and then he used i was watching another match of his and seeing those skulls pop up i'm like oh
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
join us join us come this way like homer on the couch join yeah exactly and then i i kind of mentioned this the other day too but i have been playing hearthstone again i just i need like a chill game to play when i'm eating a snack or kind of doing something on the side and hearthstone's been kind of filling that role for me i'm gonna i'm gonna mention hearthstone again here in a little bit uh on one of these questions
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
All right. And then we did want to kind of update people on the remaining schedule for the year because we always take a two-week break over Christmas to spend time with our families and just kind of decompress a little bit. So, man, this sounds crazy for the year, but we're almost done for the year. We have our Stalker 2 episode, which is going to come out Monday.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Then we have our infamous Game of the Year, End of the Year episode. Paul is joining us for that episode. I'm so excited. We were all chatting about the different categories that we're going to award, the different games and stuff like that. So I'm super hyped for that one. It's always one of our most popular episodes. So be on the lookout for that one.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
If I have my dates right, that's going to come out on December 12th, if I remember correctly. So it'll be in place of a Thursday episode. But man, I'm hyped for that one.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And I just don't know if it's like the Diablo coursing through your veins or what it is. But I feel like I am failing miserably.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And then we always come back after New Year's, which another episode that is an absolute favorite of mine, which is the most anticipated games of the year episode where we get to get hyped all over again for all the games that are coming out in 2025. And man...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
There's some really good ones coming out early in the year, but then there's going to be some crazy ones coming out later in the year, too, that I think people are forgetting about. So that episode is going to be a lot of fun as well. Speaking of games, Ryan, December, we're at the end of the year. We are. We've got a couple games coming out pretty soon.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I know, right? One is a little game. We really haven't mentioned this very much on this show, especially in the last week or two, so I feel like we're doing a disservice for people. But that's a little game called Path of Exile 2 that comes out December 6th, so the day after this episode.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
It might be like, I don't know if some people consider it like an indie game or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
Listen, people have been hearing me gush about Path of Exile 2. I've been posted on social media about it. I'm not going to spend the next 10 minutes talking about this game. All I'm going to say is trust me. Trust me when I get very, very hyped about a game. This game is going to be way better than I think people are giving it credit for.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
I've been watching a ton of videos on this from a lot of different content creators. And almost universally, they are all saying that this is going to be a kind of genre-changing game and that gamers will be talking about this for a long time, kind of like they've been doing with Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate 3.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
And I've heard this from multiple different content creators, that there's something very, very special about Path of Exile 2. That's all I'm going to say. It's coming out in early access, so it is $30 to pick up the early access. If you can wait, then the game will ultimately be free to play when it does release in about a year.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
But the early access gets you about 25 to 30 hours worth of campaign content and then a lot more end game content that they've been focusing on after that. This is very similar to like Diablo. So it's that action RPG thing. I'm going to leave it there. Just trust me. Watch some footage. I am so beyond hyped for this game at this point. I cannot wait.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
But if you've been listening to this podcast for a while, we don't do this lightly where we really get a game very hyped up. And as much as it's bugging me that Ryan's just looking at me with this blank face, I'm telling you, man, this game is going to be fantastic. So that's it. That's all I'm going to say.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
All right, and then crazy, oddly enough, because I, in my hype for Path of Exile 2, completely forgot that this game is coming out the exact same day. You forgot. Marvel Rivals is coming out. Now, Marvel Rivals, famously, when they showed off gameplay, everybody went, this is just Overwatch with superheroes. Yeah. And did you ever play any of it, Ryan?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Side Quest] Path of Exile 2, Marvel Rivals and Indiana Jones - Gaming Podcast
They had the beta for a little bit, but I don't think you had a chance to when the beta was out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
Metal Gear Solid was two.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
why ew yuck you know so i don't know i guess we'll see there's a there's a lot of misses there there were a lot of misses in the in the reveal i'm and i'm sure we'll get more details on it in a little bit deeper explanation as kind of things unfold but uh yeah first take seeing this stuff it is uh makes for not happy ryan and josh i think
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
What's it going to do, guys? Is it like Metroid Prime? It opens doors.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
That makes sense. That's what I always say is, like with Apple, it's yesterday's technology for tomorrow's prices. And it kind of seems like that's playing out here with the way this is. I was cracking up watching that. I mean, and they did. They spent forever talking about it. And the people just kept like, oh, but look, they're chatting. No, no, no. Are you seeing them? See them?
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
They're chatting. I'm like, yeah, I got it the first five, ten minutes. Like, what do you mean? I get it. Cool. Oh, no, but there's a camera with it, too. You know, you can chat with the camera. Oh, wait.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
But it's not the Nintendo certified. It's not, you know, you need the manufacturer's Nintendo camera, dude, to look right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
And the whole thing, too, isn't part of the fun of the Switch is getting all those Joy-Cons out and getting your friends actually in the room and playing with them. You know, that's one of the cool parts about Nintendo.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
I'm saving that. I'm saving that for you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Money, money, baby. Money moves. And I think with that camera too, I was just thinking about it. Cause like my kid, you know, they love watching streamers and people and they all always superimpose their face on the games. It naturally can do that. And I think it's pretty simple and easy. I wonder if that's part of it too, to get these kids to like feel like they're streaming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
Cause they have their image on their game and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Nailed it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
Especially with bumping up game prices, doing all the other things they're doing, and then this is the stuff that they drop, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
Hmm. Was I hyped? Was I hyped or am I still hyped? That's the real question. Um, it's, it's, uh, I don't know. I honestly like it's, uh, there, there is a lot there and a lot to break down and take a look at. Um, is there a lot that excited me from that? I don't know if I would, uh, if I would say so. So I'm somewhat indifferent, but, uh, I have some strong feelings on both sides.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
And how many games did you ever, you know, you went out and you're like, yeah, I'll give it a shot. And cause it's, you know, 50, 60 bucks or whatever. And then you ended up liking or something. I know me personally, this is gonna, I'm going to have to really, really be hyped or really want to play a game that I played in the series.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
We already to, to shell out 80, 90 bucks for a game to, you know, I'm not going to give them a shot anymore. Like I used to, I think that, and I think it's going to affect things. A lot of, a lot of game sales for, you know, maybe smaller titles or new IP.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
you know to where well speaking of this is this is why i am with josh and i have no sympathy and this is scummy because uh uh them trying to hit their points and everything do you know what the uh 2024 annual revenue for nintendo corporation was 11.5 billion dollars yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
That's a lot of billions still.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
I hope. All I know is, speaking of the drift cons, if they made them into a mouse and they didn't fix the stick drift, I'm going to lose my mind.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
But you know what? I think it's not going to be the people like me and you and gamers that grew up playing these things. No, it's going to be the little kids that didn't experience that, that mom and dad are going to buy the game, and then grandma and grandpa that are going to buy it to play it with them.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
You've been playing too much Schedule 1, bro.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
So did you already set in your pre-order? I did, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
The subtle tech upgrades were cracking me up. So quick little side story. I worked a long day yesterday. I was in the truck about eight hours. I ran up, did a job out of town, ran around in the forest practicing my Skyrim technique, and then came home. It was late at night, and I threw on the Nintendo Direct to watch with my son, and I naturally just pass out on the couch.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
You should see them buy all Pokemon machines, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
And he kept waking me up like every 30 seconds. Dad, there's a C button. Dad, the sticks are bigger on the controller. Dad, and it's like all these little subtle, small things. But I'm like, stop, just leave me alone.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
It's Ryan. So, which one are we going with? Your version of Goldeneye or my take on Goldeneye?
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
I'm just going to come out and say it. But the console's more, and it's priced kind of higher and appropriately, so the games will stay the same, naturally. Games are absolutely going to be cheaper on the... Oh, wait!
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
$90. We're just going to call it $90 for a Nintendo game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
You know, I mean, there's all ends of the spectrum of people who play video games. And, you know, sometimes getting a new game, it's, you know, a really big privilege. It's a treat. And if you got your kid and you're trying to pay, you know, rent,
Video Gamers Podcast
Nintendo Direct & Switch 2 Reactions - Gaming Podcast
or your mortgage and then these games are 90 you know when your kid wants mario or kirby or something and and you know i'm sorry kiddo i just don't have it like that's that just seems so like you said john it's always catered towards the younger audience and these these party fun kind of group kid games and there's going to be a lot of parents that have to tell their kids no just so that uh you know some suits up there can make more money like it's it's wild
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
I am absolutely so completely indifferent to this game. I could care less about this game. I could not care less. I don't care about the topic of the game. The graphics of the game look ugly to me. You guys, this will be another one you enjoy without me. Boomer John's going to be rocking in his chair on his porch, shaking his fist at this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
Yeah, we'll get to it. But I mean, the Joy-Cons, or whatever they're calling them, are like 20% bigger. So the screen's probably 20%. I don't know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
From what I've seen, it looks really good. I will admit, and you touched on this, but I love Nintendo properties. I love Nintendo as a brand. I admire their ingenuity with the way they approach titles and games, and I love that they have... Done a really good job of maintaining exclusivity and quality exclusivity of IPs. Metroid is a blind spot for me, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
I haven't played a Metroid game in a really long time. This may change it for me. I'm really excited about the Switch 2. So assuming that this is a, you know, hopefully pretty close to launch title for Switch 2, I would absolutely pick it up. But right now I am somewhat excited about it. There's other games that I'm more excited for. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
I'm just baffled, dude. You know, isn't, like, I feel like now that I'm reflecting on it in Star Wars, isn't that, like, 90% of what they use the Force for? Is to, like, open doors and push things aside slightly? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
You're going to get somebody fired, dude. I know. I apologize. Just out of curiosity, have you guys been following what the chatter is on it? Like what the general consensus is? It's not great, is the thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
I will say the silver lining might be that if there is some big public response that they will have the opportunity to correct, like we've seen with a lot of other games like Cyberpunk and Final Fantasy XIV and stuff. I think that... Studios are doing a good job of responding to things, especially with big, important properties. So I don't know. We'll see.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
Man. Yeah, so for anybody listening, I am playing Ghost of Tsushima right now. I missed it when it came out on the PS4, and it's been in my backlog forever. And it's been one of those games where I've always wanted to tackle it, but I've just put it off for whatever reason. New games, new confetti just keeps manifesting itself in front of me. Yeah. Man, what a great game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
It's like every minute I get further into this game, I get sucked deeper into it. And Josh and I were talking briefly offline before the show, and it's just been such a long time since I've had a game that is...
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
completely capturing my attention like this and i love man i can't wait for ghost of yotei now it's i had the opportunity to go with to japan with my uh best friend cj last year and this is just giving me such wanderlust like every time i encounter a new vista every time that gust of wind shuttles me in the right direction or i reflect in a uh in an onsen Oh my, it's just got my heart right now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
And I cannot wait for ghost of Yotei.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
Do you guys want to hear a little fun fact about Ghost of Tsushima 2, this franchise? Yeah, of course. So recently we've had two big sort of samurai titles come out. One is Ghost of Tsushima, obviously, and Assassin's Creed Shadow would be the other one. And Assassin's Creed Shadows, Ubisoft game, lots of publicity.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
Did you know that Ghost of Tsushima has sold ten times the physical copies that Assassin's Creed Shadows did in Japan? Oh, my goodness. Really? In Japan? Yeah. That's interesting. I mean, like, the Japanese audience does not seem to be... Like... Assassin's Creed Valhalla outsold Assassin's Creed Shadows in Japan. Geez.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
Yeah, but the physical copies sell, like, the grand majority of the sales happen in the first two weeks. Yeah. That's very true. So, like, everything you see after that, like, you'll know pretty quick.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
I have a haiku for you, Ryan. There you go. Ryan is so wrong. Like patch notes that nerf my main, pain forevermore. Ooh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
I think you're safe there. I think it continues to be a radio silence. Yep.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
My safe bet would be Mario Kart is a launch title. Go figure.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
But I could very easily see it. That seems like a bankable property.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I don't think they want to expend all of their repeatable IP right out of the gate. I mean, it seems pretty safe. It's still very popular. And like a Mario Kart, Mario...
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
I actually have a soft spot for Mario Party, but like a Mario Kart, there's probably not a lot that they would have to do to enhance the game to justify a new title, you know, add some more characters and some new levels and stuff. But like all the core mechanics and infrastructure for the game exist and probably are still good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
I'm just saying. I don't know if you'd call this a prediction, but I would love to see a remake of a proper remake of the first two Kingdom Hearts games. Those are games that have been, again, perpetually in my backlog because the dialogue, like I just can't read that much text on screen, but I would love to see a proper redo of those. And Switch 2 seems like a...
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
you know, that seems like a good format for it for me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that seems bad. If not Mario, like, certainly not Link. If not Mario, then what? I mean, it has to be. Please don't be Donkey Kong, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
Oh, I'm going to pay for that for a while. I can't comment on the technology specifically, but I'm a bit conflicted on the use of it. So the... humanist in me is concerned. I like probably anybody else and especially people that are in the industry as like, you know, if you follow this thing to its logical end, all I'm seeing is a lot of lost jobs and,
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
Um, but, uh, the gamer in me and especially the part of me that so wants to have as much of my humanity torn away from me as possible, like, and plug into the machine. I think that any AI advancement that brings us closer to the matrix and or ready player one or whichever iteration you want to call it is like fine by me. So, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
Yep.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
I know exactly. And it looked like cheap European TV.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
This is the truth. It's also important to acknowledge that this is a step in that direction. Whatever you're experiencing or somebody might be experiencing that feels like off-putting or whatever, it's going to fix. And it will be fixed and smoother and more pleasant to experience very soon.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
But I have just enough bandwidth for one shielded protagonist. Oh, boy. My loyalty is always with Captain America. And I just became aware of another game called Marvel Cosmic Invasion. That's like an old school, like arcade style beat them up. That looks awesome. And that's where I'm going to be spending my shield time. Gentlemen, you will have to let me know how Doom is. Yeah, I will.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
Don't you worry.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I tried it with Halo, and it was ridiculous.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
I got to pick and choose.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
Hey, everybody. I got my diet cock and bull here. This episode brought to you by cock and bull. Cock and bull. It's a chicken and a cow.
Video Gamers Podcast
Metroid Prime 4 & Doom The Dark Ages Anticipation + Nintendo Direct Predictions – Gaming Podcast
I'm working on it. Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It could be a phenomenal steal on that one. So, all right. Assassin's Creed shadows goes to Paul. Oh, good. You're updating it, Paul. I was going to say, look at Paul keeping the script. Are you kidding me? Come on.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I know. I was going to try to be a good host here and update it. But all right, sweet. Okay, Ryan. You're up, buddy.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
it's coming out this year yeah it got delayed it's gonna come out this year i'm gonna i'll bid uh 18 on this one last year it went for 20 i think it's at least worth that i'm gonna say 21 25 28 33 34 oh here we go
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I'm out. I don't know enough about the game to be as excited. I am excited for it, but I just don't know enough about the original to have that steer me. I've seen some footage. It looks fantastic. The graphics look next-gen. The gameplay looks really good.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. 2025 is finally here. Is this the year we get the long-awaited Grand Theft Auto 6? Will Silksong ever release? Will Avowed live up to the hype? Who knows? But we're about to spend the next hour talking about our most anticipated games of 2025. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
They delayed it because they even said, hey, we want to actually make this game even better than it already is, which gives me some hope in it as well. But I just don't know enough to bid this up with you guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Ryan's never looked more disappointed to win a game. What's your worry, Ryan? What's the concern here, Ryan? You didn't want to go over 35?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I was going to say, Ryan was so sad over $2. I'm like, dude, you just won the game you won, and his face just told a different story. All right, boys. You know what? There's no beating around the bush, man. We're doing it. We're doing it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
$100. $100. Yes. Now, if someone... There is a very real chance that this game does not release in 2025. There's no way. A whole nother year?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Now, Ryan, just for the sake of integrity of the show, do you want to lower your bid a little bit on the fear that it's not coming out in 2025? 100 bucks. If it comes out, you win. Yeah, I know. Oh my goodness.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
This is what I was talking about. Bring it on, baby. Come on. At the beginning. Because it's like you said, if this game releases, it's probably game of the year. I mean, I can't see it not being unless it somehow is disappointing, which I don't see happening either. So it's just taking that gamble. And I'll be honest, I don't think it's going to release.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I'll show up for this. Really, you just did it for the listeners because you didn't want to subject them to just me and Ryan doing this.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I think they're going to push it back to 2026, like first quarter, first half of 2026, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
There's so many good games, man. I'm not. I'm not doing $100. I think if it comes out, it's worth it. But again, I don't think it's coming out, man. That's what we do. When you want it, you get it. That's true.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
But also, you're going to be like, oh, there goes my whole draft. Oh, I don't have any money. Oh, I want that, but I'm poor. That's our first round. We are coming back around, but we're going to take a quick break before we do that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
whole rest of his list he's just gonna get outbid on anything decent and then he's just gonna wind up with like these rando games just hoping that they're okay yeah oh man i get to nominate again uh let's see let's see i am gonna throw out ghost of yotei oh another big one all right so ghost of tsushima follow-up One that you played recently.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I think, I mean, it's scheduled to come out in 2025. They don't have a hard date on this one yet, but they're saying, hey, 2025 release date on this. You said 15, Paul?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
There's so many games I want that I feel very confident are going to come out in 2025, and I really have this list of games in my head that I want to build.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I mean, maybe, maybe I was going to ask you if it, if having just recently played that, if it got you super hyped for ghost of Yotei, of course, dude, at an average of $25 a game, I feel like throwing out 38 for this.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, yeah. We're going to explain. Actually, I'm going to have you explain the rules here in just a second to everybody, Paul. But first, a touch of housekeeping. You know, by the way, we did have a lot of reviews, but this episode is going to be a long episode anyway. So we are holding those reviews.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Ryan tried to bid $25, right? Did you say $25? Ryan, you'd be so broke. I don't care. It's going to be a good game. It's going to be so good. All right. Well, Ryan, you get to nominate a game, buddy. So what are you going to do with your few pennies you got left? With my pennies? I bet it's not a big opening bid.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Wait, can he really? You do have dollars reserved for each one.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Sweet. Oh, I wanted the alters, man. Dude, okay. Has there been a game where the demo just absolutely blew people away and then the game released and everybody was like, this is garbage.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Like, that's the thing, right? Like, we played the demo for The Altars. All three of us, I mean, instantaneously, we're like, whoa, this game is phenomenal. But there's that chance that it's like, it was just the demo that was awesome. Like, what if the rest of the game is terrible? But it's like, I can't think of an instance when that happened.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
So if the rest of the game is as good as the demo, $42 is a steal for that game. And it's coming out in 2025.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
But for everybody that has left us a review and is waiting for your review to be read on the show, hang in there. We'll get to those, I promise. But we're going to focus on the upcoming games in 2025 on this one. But we do have a new supporter to thank. By the name of Fitner John, who signed up for legendary status. Legend! Fitner John has been a fan of the show.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I think that they know that they were onto something with the reception to the demo. And I think that's why they delayed it because I think they went, whoa, People really seem to like this. We better take some extra time and make it as good as we possibly can, because I think there was a resounding positive response to that demo.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And I think they saw that and went, OK, we were on to something here. Let's make sure we land this plane. So that's my hope anyway. All right, Ryan, you nominated that one, right? Yes. All right. You know, I'm just going to do it because I don't think either one of you care one whit about this game. Claire Obscura Expedition 33.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
If this doesn't look like a next-gen Final Fantasy game with over-the-top combat camera angles, flashiness... The production value on this game looks like it is through the roof. And I know both of you could care less because you both hate turn-based combat. And this game does not look like it's up your alley. So I'm very curious how you guys are going to respond to this.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
But I'll start the bidding off at $10.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Nothing looks like Claire Obscura.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, $16, you suckers. This game is going to be fantastic.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Oh, it's releasing this year.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I'm so happy I got that for under $25.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Dude, I saw this game. Okay, you put this on our list. I did. And I went, what on earth is Midnight Murder Club? And so I had to go look it up. It's kind of like a... Like a betrayal game, almost, like Among Us?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
lethal company those kinds of games uh i'm throwing it out for a buck but this one also does come out soon because it's set for a february release which also makes it a little bit more appealing to me these these social kind of betrayal type games yeah if they catch fire dude they take over the world for like two months and then they just disappear you know at that point um i don't
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I think this game has potential to do that because, like I said, the gameplay footage I watched looked very interesting. It's a lot of laughing. There was just people laughing, shooting each other. Some guy was hiding behind a piano and the guy shot up the piano and it was making the sounds where it was like, you know, like, I just don't know if I want this choking up my list of games, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
But for a dollar, I don't think I can give this to you for a dollar either, Paul. Don't do it. There's a lot of guys on this list. Don't put it on me. What are you going to do? No, I'm just asking. Are you going to bid? You could get it super cheap.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Actually, really, really awesome dude. We've been chatting in DMs a good bit. And then he just joined our Discord server this morning. And then lo and behold, five minutes later, baby, just legendary. So we see you. We appreciate you, Fitner John. Thank you, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
$4. I'm out. I just wanted somebody to bid it up.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
No, I'm out. I just needed you to throw out something so I can bow out.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I would have stuck Ryan with that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Six. Okay. That's fair. I mean, hindsight. I got him up from a dollar.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
That's true. You did. You made him spend five more bucks. I'm proud of you, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. All right, Ryan, what you got? All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I like Ryan's now questioning his opening bid.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
People love Subnautica. It's multiplayer this time?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Okay. You look like you're all of a sudden back in. Maybe I am second-guessing myself. Here's the thing. It's multiplayer. Subnautica with a friend would be amazing. It would be a huge improvement. Oh, my goodness, dude. But I just don't know how much content there's going to be. Like, yes, I'm super excited about it, but I just don't know what to expect from the release. Is it a four hour game?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. He is. Yep. So. All right, Paul, I'm just I'm going to throw it to you because we're going to be talking about the most anticipated games of 2025. But just mentioning them would be too boring. That's not our style. We've got to turn it into a game. We got to turn it into a competition. We need to see who's going to be crowned the king of choosing games for a year.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And then they're like, oh, well, we'll develop it more over the next two years. Or is this like an 80% complete game where they just go, okay, cool. Like, yeah, all these systems work and people have a lot of fun. And now we just got to polish it 20%. I don't know.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It's such a big name game though.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
All right. I'm going to give it to Paul too. This one hurts me. This one hurts me, man. Subnautica is my game, guys. That's my game. That's the game I love.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Spend some money. That's the thing, dude, is I don't know what to expect. And if there weren't like eight other games that I want on my list, I would go harder in the paint for Subnautica too. But I just don't know what it's going to be like at its release. And now Paul only gets four more games. That's the other thing. He's halfway through his draft already.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, Paul doesn't want to comment, huh? That's 17, huh? I'll go 18.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
That's what you get when you spend $100.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I can't wait to hear about the delay. Paul, are you out then?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
They learned from Tiny Tina's. This is why when they did the release of Borderlands 4 and they announced it to the world, they said, hey, this is... The love letter.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, it's going to be... Borderlands is such a huge name, man. You can have it. I'm out. At $18? Okay. I didn't actually want Borderlands 4, but for $18, I can't complain, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Under $20 for one of the biggest gaming franchises out there? Even if it's mid at $18, fine.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
All the assets are created. They've got the... Whatever the AI is that generates the guns, man, there's nothing they need. This game will come out.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
For sure. Might be right. I didn't really want it, guys. I thought one of you was going to bid it up a little bit more.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Dang it. All right, Paul. I'm not happy now. I try to pretend to be happy, but I don't think... All right, listen. Borderlands 4, it's not going to be that good, guys. It's going It's going to be just like every other Borderlands game. You're totally 180'd. I tried. Tomb was perfection. And then like you said, Paul, after that, it's all gone downhill, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I mean, I'll play it. Even if it wasn't on my list, I'm still going to wind up playing it because you know it's a good time. It's just whether it's going to live up to the predecessor of Borderlands 2 or not.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
So, Paul, why don't you explain what this episode is and kind of how we go about it?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I will say this game is very high on my hype meter. It is very high. I, my one concern for this game is, is it going to be too slow paced?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And that's the thing is I've seen a lot of people say, if you've never played kingdom come deliverance, the combat in that game is super like realistic, where if you swing your sword like three times, your guy's fatigued, you know? And then it's like, and so it's very slow and a lot of people don't get it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You know what I mean? There's a lot of good games on this list.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It is absolutely releasing.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Actually, they moved the release up a week on this one because they didn't want it going up against the Vowed.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I'll bow out at 50. Sweet. This was one game I absolutely wanted to leave this draft with.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Probably up to 55. There's a couple games where I said, I want to leave the draft with these games, and this is one of them. Yeah, I just I everything I've seen about this game really just looks like this is a top notch video game experience. The fact that, like you said, Paul King come deliverance is pretty beloved by a lot of people.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And this is like their I don't want to say like magnum opus, but this is like what they wanted to make originally. And so I feel like it's going to be just top notch, man. Like the comedy, the trailers. I worry a little bit about the combat. I guess we'll see. Yep.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I haven't played a really good medieval game in... I mean, I can't call The Witcher 3 medieval because that's like a fantasy world, but this is true medieval life. Oh, sure. So I think that's going to be a very neat representation because I love like Ryan, you're a huge fan of like ancient Egypt. I love the Middle Ages. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Wouldn't want to live there, but it's just something that like resonates with my brain. And so it's like this game for me is very high up on that list. I really hope it's worth the $50 price tag. All right, so just to recap, Ryan, you're at $57 left, okay? Because we have to reserve $1 for each of your slots. Yes. You have Metal Gear Solid, Snake Eater, and Grand Theft Auto VI. I have $70 left.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I have The Altars, Clare Obscura, Expedition 33, Borderlands 4, and Kingdom Come Deliverance 2. I'm pretty darn happy with my list. And Paul, you have $111 left. You have Assassin's Creed Shadows, Ghost of Yotei, Midnight Murder Club, and Subnautica 2. How are you feeling about your list, Paul?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
All right. Let's see. So Kingdom Come Deliverance, that was you that nominated that, right, Paul?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I love that anything Ryan nominates is going to come out at like $3. He's not going to be like $25.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
$20, make it harder. Yeah, it did go. And it's probably releasing this year, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I'm not telling you, Paul. Nice try, buddy. All right, $30. $40.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
He said he's out. He's out. I got it. This was my number one game. I wasn't going to bid on Grand Theft Auto 6 because I didn't believe it's coming out, but Avowed is my number one game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Okay. I may only have $21 left, but I got five banger games on my list now.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
So my answer to your question was I actually feel more confident because they did the preview where they let a lot of YouTubers come and play Avowed for like 10 hours or something like that. And universally, everybody came away going, this game is great. Like this game is going to be so good. I think it's like 25, 30 hour story. So they're keeping it tight.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I am super hyped, and I've gotten more hyped just from the positive response and the improvements that they've made to combat and stuff, too. Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
The only thing that worries me about Avowed is it's set in... Is it Aeora? What's the game from the Pathfinder? Wrath of... Kingmaker series?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Enora, Aeora. I don't know anything about that world. And from playing Kingmaker... Was it Kingmaker that we played?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
We had this one last time. Pillars of Eternity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. Yeah. And we flubbed this one on another show, too, because I couldn't remember it. But I don't know if I care about that world, necessarily. But we'll find out. All right, so let's see. Ryan, that was you nominated that? Yes. All right. Let's do one more, and then we'll take a quick ad break, okay?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Let's go with... Man, I love my list, but I am broke now. I'm poorer than Ryan, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Six more games? Oh, my goodness. Okay, let's go with Metroid Prime 4 Beyond... Which should be one of the biggest Nintendo releases in a while. And since I'm broke, I'll start the bidding at five bucks.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You're missing out. Metroid is really good. Metroid's pretty sweet. Really good series, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
This is like the biggest Nintendo game release of 2025. Nintendo games sell like hotcakes, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I only have $20 left. It was your game. Well, I mean, yeah, but you guys bid it up.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
This is a huge name game. Metroid Prime 4 for $10 is a crime, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
This is hilarious. That name alone for people that love Nintendo is going to catapult Paul's standings.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I got like five games I really want still, and I only have three more spots, man. All right, we're going to take a break, and then we're coming back with Paul's next nomination. We'll be back in just a second. All right, maybe that was like 60 seconds, depending on the ads that just got played. But we're back to you, Paul.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
This might be the biggest game name on the list. Gears, baby.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Dude, I legitimately scoured, scoured the internet. To see if there was any gameplay footage of this game. We saw the trailer. We know it's the prequel. There's no gameplay at all. But it's freaking Gears of War, man. There's no chance that Microsoft, that they flubbed this, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It's the return of Gears of War.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I know. Paul's just going to clean up these later games.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
33. Paul's going to bid whatever it takes to beat you, Ryan. Don't try. I guarantee you can tell by how fast he's bidding. He's so confident.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
36. Oh, you see how he slowed down there, Ryan? Yeah, it's all games. It's yours. All right, 36?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
If that game releases this year, in my brain, it's an amazing video game. No, we haven't seen anything about it, but in my brain, I'm just returning to the Gears of War glory, man, with your buddies. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I was going to say, I think you're looking pretty good.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I do. So Ryan and Paul are close to each other on money. Ryan at $57 left. Paul at $67 left now.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, Paul only or technically only has space for two. That could come into play as well. I might come in under budget. What are you nominating?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, because five was the glory of Civ, right? Because six, people said, isn't as good as five. You should just play five, which is why we actually played five, but we covered six. I'm out. All right. What's the bid? Five. Five. $5, huh? $5 will make you holla. Civ 7. Yeah, you can have this one, Ryan. Yeah, I got another game. It's a huge name. I'm just not a big fan of the series, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, I love it. I don't know.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Civ 7 for $5. Somebody's going to go, how on earth did you get Civ 7 for $5? I should have bid it up. Would you have outbid me, Ryan? Oh, maybe to like 15. See, I was just hoping to push you up to 10. So I could have done that easy. Dang it. All right. All right, boys. This is a big name game, dude. If we don't mention this one, there's going to be a revolt from the listeners.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
So I'll throw it out there. Monster Hunter Wilds. And I'll start the bidding off at $5 for my broke butt.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Can I push you up past ten on this one, Ryan?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah! I don't want to play this game, but this game's going to look great on my list.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I could care less about the game itself. People are going to look at the list and be like, dude, Josh's list, man. Sorry for everybody that loves Monster Hunter. I'm with you, Paul. Monster Hunter World, I get the appeal. It's a grand game. Oh, man, you're fighting these crazy, fantastic creatures. It's just not my kind of game. Too many systems, too convoluted.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, so I'll tell you what, let's just go back. Let's rewind a year. Hey, and we're back in 2024. And I'm just going to read the list. These are the games when we did this episode in 2024 that we each wound up with. And I'll give you the prices because the price that we bid on a game kind of is a good indicator of our hype meter for that game as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
All right. We're back to you, Paul.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I will bid everything I have at $12. I will go $13. Dang it, Paul, you jerk!
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I know you haven't played Elden Ring.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
His list is going to be way too good, right? You also have to take into account, if Paul adds Elden Ring and he only needs one game after this, his list looks insane.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I don't want Paul to win. You need another banger on your list.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
All right. I'm happy that Elden Ring is at least getting its due now because 40 is still cheap for this game. 42.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
you can have it. Oh, that's a good, that is a good pick. Paul, $45 for Elden Ring. I'm loving this roster. I know it sounds like a lot of money. It's looking good right now. Paul's list is stupid. Good looking. That's what we said. $10 was a crime. I know, but Metroid Prime at $10 was robbery.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You could have built it up. Ryan, don't put it on me.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Paul, stop naming games for Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
So these really big games are going to command a lot of money. for you to get them on your list. And that's a good sign of how hyped you might be about it. But well, so for last year, we'll start with Ryan. Ryan landed with X Defiant at $22, Dragon Age Veil Guard at $25, Senua's Saga Hellblade II at $50, Ryan's highest priced game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, I'll... Ryan will pay. Death Stranding 2? Two dollars! It's in the name!
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It is a game. It's definitely a walking simulator. Ryan has too much money and too many slots, man. I only have two slots left. That's my problem. And I might want, like, Hyper Lightbreaker, because neither one of you is gonna bid on that. Five dollars for... You can have it, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And it's got great graphics. This draft is stupid. My list just stopped at six games. I can't do nothing else, man. It's my turn to nominate one?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Alright, here we go. Doom the Dark Ages, boys.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
That's a Josh pick. I mean, it's probably going to be terrible. Who likes Doom? They're all the same. And I'll start the bidding off at a dollar.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Paul, you're Mr. Moneybags over there.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Ryan's got more money than me. You got twice my amount of money, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You want to lend me some money?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It's five dollars. Going twice.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
eight i have twelve dollars paul why are you egging me on push it ryan this is doom look at how look at doom eternal there's a game that paul wants with his last slot and he's trying to get me to spend all my money so he can snatch it up i'm fine with one dollar you're not you're not taking what i want dollars come on let's go eight bucks dang it you got too much money ryan yeah nine dollars ten dollars eleven dollars ryan
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
That's a good kick. Dang it, Ryan. You're not going to play Doom?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You're just taking my good name games that I know and then you're just stealing them, Mr. Amazon.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Taking my good ideas and then just making them your own basic thing. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
All right. It's a lot with me. So we're back to Paul. No, I nominated that. Oh, you nominated him. That's right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
So if he gets this, he's out regardless.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And joining me, he can't wait for the release of Dave the Diver. And he's pretty sure Redfall probably won't win Game of the Year this time. Maybe. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Star Wars Outlaws at $47, Rise of the Ronin at $22, Hades 2 at $17, Homeworld 3 at $5, and Stalker 2 at $12. Oh my gosh. That was a steal, by the way.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Ryan, that'll make you and I tied cash-wise. You got to do it, man. Paul will be out. It'll be down to me and you with the same exact amount of money.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You gotta admit, it's a good scenario, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
That's fantastic. Dang it. You have a dollar more than me now.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Paul is Paul is done with the draft. No, no, you got, Oh no, no. Ryan took that one. That's right. Ryan took it. I, okay. So Paul's still in it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
If I couldn't have Mario dwindling.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
The name recognition is not there. I'm trying to tank the appeal of his list at first glance.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I think it's going to be a fantastic multiplayer co-op roguelike game. Totally agree. It's going to be a blast, dude. I just don't know that enough people know about it yet for them to look at that and go like, oh yeah, way to go, Ryan. All right. That was Ryan, so it's my... Dude, there's like four games out there that I still am very interested in.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You can have it. All right, I'll take it for the $3. Slay the Spire 2, it's like the biggest name in indie games, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, buddy. All right, Paul, it's your nomination.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Paul sitting over here can outbid Brian and I handily.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I loved it so much. And two looks, it's going to be even better, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
All right, well, here it is, man. This is my last slot. It's Ryan's last slot. I have $10 left. Ryan has $9 left. So I can basically just pick the game that I want to pick.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Or 11 and 10, right. But I still have one more dollar than Ryan. Yes. So I'm just going to name some of the games that I'm super interested in. Ark Raiders, Paul, you know me very well. That is very high on my list. Dune Awakening, if it releases in 2025, I think looks insanely good. And I'm really, really hungry for a good MMO. Jump Ship, I think, is going to be a ton of fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
That was a game that we covered on a This Week in Gaming. And then there's some like South of Midnight and Mixtape, these kind of story based games that look really, really good. I mean, just top notch production quality.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
All right, Ryan. Ryan's already getting competitive. Ryan, what's the best game on your list?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And then there is the unknown list where we have games like Light No Fire, which I am crazy about. Silksong is on there. Is it going to release in 2025? I don't know. Nobody knows.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Nobody knows, but I could take a huge gamble. With my last pick and then say, man, there's also one other game that if it releases in 2025, I think is phenomenal, dude. And I'm really torn between it and Silksong. I just don't know if I want to take the gamble on Silksong. But I don't want to name the game because I don't want Ryan taking it either.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I'm going to get burned two years in a row on Silk Song, and then everybody's going to be like, you fool. You don't give me Silk Song. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I didn't want that one, but how can I resist?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Are you telling me they need another year on that game, man?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
All right. You got it for 10, Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
For $12 or whatever. Star Wars Outlaws.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, we know it's coming out.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
That game is going to take the streaming world by storm.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. It'll, it'll release and it's just going to hit if it's going to hit.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, exactly. So, all right, that wraps up the draft. I'll go over everybody's lists here. So Ryan, you ended up with metal gear, solid Delta snake eater, uh, Boy, the one that it's all going to come down to, Grand Theft Auto 6, Civilization 7, Death Stranding 2, Doom, The Dark Ages, which you stole from me. I really wanted that one on my list. Super Mario Odyssey 2. Which you stole from me?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, which you stole from Paul. All part of the plan. Hyper Light Breaker, which was mine. even though I didn't want to buy it. And then Kingmakers with your last pick. I have The Altars, Claire Obscura Expedition 33, Borderlands 4, Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, Avowed, Monster Hunter Wild, Slay the Spire 2, and Hollow Knight Silk Song. I feel like I have the name recognition of
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You know, the games are, we'll see if they release and when and how good they are and all that, but at least the names are there. And then, Paul, you have Assassin's Creed Shadows, The Ghost of Yotei, Midnight Murder Club, Subnautica 2, my beloved, Metroid Prime 4 Beyond, Gears of War E-Day, Elden Ring Night Rain, and Splitgate 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It's going to be a good year. It's crazy to me because your list, I think, has some of the most potential. But we don't know what to expect from Gears of War E-Day. Elden Ring Night Rain looks really good, but we don't really know what to expect. It's designed to be multiplayer and simpler and all that. Yeah, this is crazy.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Right? All right, well, let's go to Paul's list. Oh, no. Here we go. Paul, you have quite possibly one of the best games to release last year, and that is Shadow of the Erdtree at $59. Yes. Then you started to gamble a little bit. with some of these games that we thought were going to release in 2024, and then they didn't.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
No. I think it's going to get delayed too. No, it's coming out. So that one, but if it's not caused by a delay... Borderlands 4, even though I got it for $18, I don't know that I have a lot of confidence in. It is a little bit of an overpay, maybe. Yeah, and then... I don't think anyone really overpaid for much.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I think $50 for Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 might seem like a lot, especially since I got avowed for the exact same price. But I have pretty high confidence that both those games are going to be pretty darn impressive games, man. And they'll come out this year. Oh, they're coming out. Yeah, for sure. So... Oh, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I can't wait to come back to this episode at the end of the year and then just go like, man, we seem like we knew everything. I think you guys did, but I went back and listened to our 2024 episode of this all over again. And we were just talking about these games that were coming up. And future Josh is like, no! Stop talking about Sandland. Don't. Stop saying how good Sandland is going to be.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It looks so good. I know. And then I was just like... why, why was I excited about that game or, you know, Oh man, it was, it was funny. So Paul, thank you so much for joining us once again, buddy. It is, it is awesome to have you back with us, man. So thank you, uh, from not only myself and Ryan, uh, but all the listeners as well for jumping in on this with us and just making it a great time.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And, and, uh, Putting a pretty darn good list together, man. Yeah, right? Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
We didn't. I just don't know what I think about it. I still think it looks great, but it just kind of disappeared. It kind of did. Yeah, so that worries me a little bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, the game I was talking about was Judas.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Judas is supposed to come out in March of 2025. Now, they've been real radio silent on it, with the exception of the gameplay that they gave us not too long ago. But everything points to it's supposed to come out in 2025. Will it be March? I don't know about that. But I still think that that's what they're shooting for on that one. And I mean, that game looks incredible, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
That was the one I didn't want to tell Ryan about, because I didn't want you putting it on your list. Because it's a huge name game if it does release this year. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, that does it for us, everybody. Thank you for listening. It is so good to be back. 2025 is going to be incredible. I just, I can't wait. I know Ryan's excited. Paul.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
We know you'll be back with us at some point as well. If nothing else, just for the end of your episode to talk about this one, man. Yeah. So that is it. Hey, remember, if you haven't already done it, follow us in your podcast app. Open it up. Click follow. Click the plus button. That way you get all our episodes the day they release. Follow us on socials at Video Gamers Pod.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
So you went with Metal Gear Solid Delta Snake Eater at $20, Avowed at $50, Kingmakers at $10, No Rest for the Wicked at $17, Ark 2 at $11, Where Winds Meet at $15, and Silent Hill 2 Remake at $18.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And if you enjoyed this episode and you want to just support this content, if you're gamers like us, think about supporting the show. Head over to MultiplayerSquad.com and you can sign up there for as little as five bucks a month. That's it for this one. Until next time, happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Five of those games never came out. And they had set releases. That's what makes me so mad. This was not like a swinging for the fences kind of strategy. This was like, we thought these games were releasing, man. Poor Paul. And then they just didn't.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. All right. And then my list, Dragon's Dogma 2 at $68. Black Myth Wukong at $69. Boy, I spent a lot very early. The Wolf Among Us 2 at $7. Didn't release. Stellar Blade at $10. Indiana Jones and the Great Circle at $5, man. What a value. That might wind up being the steal of my draft. Sand Land... At $7, that game did not pan out to what I was hoping it was going to be.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Space Marine 2 at $20, that was a value. And then I took the swing on Hollow Knight, Silksong at $14, which, let's be honest, is never coming out. You can't say it. So before we get into this, who won? Ryan's raising his hand. My game's all came out. It's Josh. It's definitely Josh. It's me. Josh crushed it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I thought Redfall looked pretty good at first, Ryan. And then I went, oh no.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Also, how dare you guys continue to diss Stellar Blade? Yeah, I was going to say, somebody better mention Stellar Blade. I don't know because I haven't played it, but it looks like a great game. Fine, whatever. I'll concede. This is what I love because I know that we are all so hyped for this episode and to talk about these games coming out in 2025.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And I cannot wait until the end of the year when we get to come back to this episode because we will, believe me, we will absolutely come back to this when we kind of do our game of the year and end of the year episode. There are going to be games that we have no idea are coming out. Astro Bot, famously in 2024, we did not know about when we did this draft.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And so there's going to be all sorts of releases that are going to surprise us. There's going to be games that get delayed. I know there's a game on this list that, oh man, maybe it's coming out this year. So maybe it's coming out next year, but whoever gets it is taking a huge gamble on that one. But yeah, let's get into it, boys. So I do want to touch on one other thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Did your results from the last time we did this affect your strategy moving into this one? Paul took a lot of these games that all got delayed and didn't make it. If two more of those games came out, I think Paul wins this hands down. Oh, for sure. And so it's like, did your strategy change from last time?
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You mentioned that earlier, by the way. Yeah. So you typed it out, which is even worse. And joining us... He's that beloved old game you boot up from time to time, but you can't quite remember where you left off or what any of the buttons do. It's Paul!
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I will say that I think for me, and this is something for the listeners too, when it's your turn to nominate a game, you have to nominate the game and you have to throw out the starting bid. So if you nominate a game that nobody else wants, you're stuck with that at that point. So there is some danger and some strategy in how we go about nominating these.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Now, a few rules for everybody that's listening. We have to draft eight games each. So by the end of the draft, you must have eight games. You have a budget of $200. And we are not going to count games that have been in early access that might be releasing this year. So an example would be like Enshrouded. That's a pretty popular game. It's been in EA for all of last year.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It's finally releasing in the 1.0 this year. But it's kind of like that game's been available in 90% of its iteration already. And so we're not gonna count a game like that. Now, if a game is releasing in early access in 2025, I'll just throw a name out there, like Subnautica 2, for instance, that game would qualify because you can say, hey, I'm super excited for this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I'm really anticipating it. I understand it's an early release, but it's at least releasing in 2025. So it does qualify at that point. So those are the rules. When it's your turn, you nominate the game. You throw out your opening bid. We'll take turns bidding it up if we want.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
We each end this draft with eight games, and then we'll actually talk about who we think won the draft, and then we'll come back to it later on. Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
All right. You guys, you guys ready to get started? Oh, let's do it. All right, Paul, you're the guest of honor.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It's only fitting. It's only fitting that you start us off, Paul.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Assassin's Creed Shadows. Now... Paul, you mentioned it. We trash Ubisoft a lot. Ubisoft is really under the gun. There's a lot of conversation about hostile takeovers, them trying to sell. I mean, Ubisoft lost its way and it's having a very hard time finding its way back. Assassin's Creed Shadows, one of the more anticipated games. I just don't know that I have a lot of faith in it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, exactly. But I can't let you have a game of that magnitude for five bucks, Paul. So I am going to bid $10.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Has it been a while? I love Assassin's Creed.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, we're at the dollar bids.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It's Assassin's Creed. That's where I know. The name alone. The name alone is, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You got out at 15. What do you mean? All right. I was just trying to get you invested in this.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
We can't turn this into a three-hour episode, but are you guys hyped for Assassin's Creed Shadows? A little bit. Who doesn't love Feudal Japan? I don't know. I'm up for it. I love Feudal Japan. I love Feudal Japan. Here's the problem for me. I have zero faith in Ubisoft at this point. That's the thing. Legitimately zero.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And so it's weird because in theory, I should be excited about this game, but there's a part of me that's going to go, this is just going to be mid- I can't fathom Ubisoft somehow just rediscovering themselves and making a game that's going to blow the world away. Yeah. And so that's my fear with Assassin's Creed Shadows.
Video Gamers Podcast
The MOST Anticipated Games of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
The real question in this episode is going to be, is somebody going to wind up with Silksong? Silksong, $1, please. Oh, my goodness. It's like, you know, it doesn't work for other people, but maybe it'll work for us. Oh, we are here. It's 2025, gentlemen. Paul, thank you for joining us for this episode. We had to call in a favor. You owed us a couple. And you said, I'm a man of my word.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I had to use something recent, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I think because it is a story-based game that looks, I could be wrong, looks like it has limited gameplay elements to it, that this is like your Firewatch, your What Remains of Edith Finch, these kind of story-based walking simulators with minimal gameplay elements to it.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
oh man there's people out there that went i got that reference you know and then there's people going what yeah players and marvel rivals what are y'all talking about but hey as gamers we love our game drama and there's some game drama going on with marvel rivals right now so we're gonna We're going to be digging into that one, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I think if you're going to make that kind of game, Harold Halibut, which I didn't play, was another one where it's all about the story and the characters. And that's one of those things where it's like, I think if you're going to make this kind of game, you lean into that and you say this is simply for the experience and the visuals and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I think if you try to lean into the gameplay portion and it's mid, it actually winds up detracting from the other part of it. I agree. And I almost called it Southwalk.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
we don't need a name for me game there's too many midnights around here was this midnight born yeah i was just gonna say there's a bunch of boards midnight born whatever oh man so i i think this game looks amazing the art style is incredible the characters look incredible i might actually play this in vr dude just because i haven't played a vr game in a long time and i think this looks really really cool
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
But that comes out in a week. Be on the lookout for this because you have not seen a game like this. I guarantee it. Whether it's good or not remains to be seen, but I am willing to bet that people have not seen a game like this ever, honestly. All right. Well, a game that... I know it's going to be good. I am planting my flag, boys. I'm planting my flag just like I did on Expedition 33.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I'm planting my flag on this one, and we're going to talk about it right after this break.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
The flag has been planted. It's flapping in the wind. Doom the Dark Ages is going to be incredible. Incredible. Rip and tear until it is done, dude. Dude, number one, Doom Eternal. I've said this many a time. If you haven't played it, you're missing out on one of the best single-player first-person shooters that exists. Legitimately, it's up there with the Titanfall 2 campaign.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I mean, it's amazing, dude. I think Doom the Dark Ages is going to be better than Doom Eternal. And that is saying... Wow, that is a bold claim, sir. I'm telling you, man, they understand what makes the newer Dooms incredible. They are gritty. They are so super polished. It's ridiculous, dude. These games will run on a potato... In 4K HDR, 60 frames a second.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I don't know what magic they work behind the scenes on these Doom games, but Doom Eternal is one of the best optimized games ever. And it looks incredible. The music goes perfectly. The gameplay is top notch. I mean, there is, I don't see a way that they whiff on this, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Every trailer that I've seen, every preview that I've seen just gets me amped because they are leaning into the stand and fight, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Everything, dude. Nothing. Doom Slayer, don't care. Doom Slayer, don't give a darn, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. What a week we had for gaming from the surprise release of the Oblivion Remaster to the long awaited Expedition 33 release. Gamers have been swimming in a sea of fun games. But now what? Well, don't worry. There's still a ton of games to look forward to.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
But I'll tell you what, let's burn through some housekeeping real quick, fellas, before we get to... Because we've got a lot of games to talk about. First and foremost, a huge thank you to two new supporters of this podcast. You guys hear us say this all the time, but this podcast would not exist without the support of the listeners. And I love this name, dude. So a...
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
We'll be deep diving this one, too. Absolutely. Ace, you're not a big first-person shooter campaign kind of guy.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I know, dude. I think it will, to be honest. Like, I think it's going to be different enough. And they've shown this in some of the preview stuff where, you know, you get to pilot the gigantic, like, mechs that you see in Doom Eternal that are all broken down. Yeah. Because this is a prequel to everything.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
That's the other thing, man, is this is a prequel to like the Doom games, you know, where it's like Doom guys under control of like the weird like alien, like angel. I don't even know. I don't know the lore of this stuff, man. Like I love the visuals and stuff, but it's like this is absolutely a prequel to that stuff. But you get to pilot these mechs and then they show you just pummeling on people.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
But then you get like these... Godzilla-sized Gatling guns.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Because there is a room that people are sitting in and they're going, all right, guys, what do we do? And some dude, you know he's got this crazy idea.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
And then you can see in most developers, they're like, dude, that's crazy. We're not doing that. That could never work. Just give him another shotgun. Give him a pistol. Give him a machine. And this guy's like, what if you tear up skulls and it shoots out shards of bone? And of course, it is like... Yeah, that's such an amazing idea. Let's also give him a shield. That's a chance. I love it, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Lean into what you are making, dude. Like if you're making a game and it's not serious, lean into the not serious part. Make me laugh. Make me go. I love the fact that these devs knew what they were making.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Dude, two weeks. It's here in two weeks, guys. It seems so far away, and now it's here. And, ah, man, I'm so pumped, dude. That'll be perfect timing for me to be done with Expedition 33, get a little bit of Marvel Rivals in in the meantime, because that's my comfort game. That's our drug.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
We were playing. We're going to get to rivals talk, but we'll get there.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
A little bit. Ace joined us a little bit after we started playing and he was like, Oh, I can tell Josh is frustrated. I was like, dang it, man. I don't know what these games do to me. All right. So guys, this. This game is an enigma to me because I should be more excited about it. You should be. I know, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
And this is so off-brand for me to not be just, like, singing the praises of this game and saying, like, I cannot wait until May 30th because that is when Elden Ring Night Rain releases. It's freaking Elden Ring. Elden Ring is one of my favorite games ever. Like, ever. And I think... I think that's the problem, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Big, big thank you to Bearded Dragon with a sombrero for signing up for epic status. So thank you, Bearded Dragon with a sombrero for signing up for epic. And then we have a returning member, the one, the only Joe Flynn, who was with us a long time ago. And then, you know, life happens. Hey, we totally get that. That's fine. And then Joe came back to us and he said, hey, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I think the problem is, is that I'm worried that Night Rain is going to be a disappointment. And I'm worried that it is going to be like the, you're cheapening my franchise, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
If Ornstein and Smough is in this, if Ornstein and Smough is in that game, dude. You don't want a little bit of Smough in your life? Dude, I don't even know what I'll do. I don't even know. You never beat them in Dark Souls 1, did you? Dude, I never beat them.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I've never heard that before. I've never heard you say that. Dude, it's on my resume. Literally on my resume at the top, because it's like you want to put important information, dude. It's like, Josh, Elden Lord.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Okay, so this is the kicker, right? I have this fear that this game is going to cheapen Elden Ring, right? But at the same time, I have the hope that somebody like Ryan, who really doesn't have much interest in Elden Ring, even though I am convinced... I am still to this day convinced, Ryan, that if you played Elden Ring, you would be like, oh my gosh, dude, this game is insane, dude. I'm rolling.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I'm rolling. I think you would lose your mind over Elden Ring.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
You can parry. Although only crazy people parry in Elden Ring.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Um, so, but my hope is that will this draw in Ryan? Like, can we get him into the lands between by, by having him play night rain with us?
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
And so the fact that you can play this with friends, we all love roguelikes. So that sounds interesting to me. And I'll be honest with you. I have not really followed this game. I know that I've seen the trailer for Night Rain and that is it. When they announced it and we talked about it, that's the only trailer that I have watched. I have not watched any of the updates.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I have not watched any of the technical tests. I am going into this almost as blind as a person can go into it, especially for somebody that loves Elden Ring more than just about any other game out there. This one's just weird for me, man, because I think I am worried. But at the same time, if it works out, this could be one of the best games of the year. It could take it again, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
It could happen again. Shadow of the Earth Tree. I went, dude, it's DLC. They're just saying it's just more of Elden Ring. And I could not have been more anticipating that. And it blew me away. Shadow of the Earth Tree is up there with Phantom Liberty as one of the best DLCs ever made. Legitimately.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
And so I think that's my, like, but now I see Night Rain and I kind of go like, what are you doing, guys? But it might be amazing. And the fact that the three of us can play this together, which we will be doing, really does excite me. I just don't know why I can't kind of wrap my head around it.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
And so this is one where we're just going to have to see, man. And maybe this is like the best way for me to approach this is not have hype for it and not be like over, you know, overhyped for it. And then it comes out and we're all just having a blast. And it's like, oh, my gosh, this is the best thing ever. I just have this worry where I'm like, well, this is just dumbed down.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I'm back to support you guys. We're still here because we've been around for a while. So thank you, Joe, for coming back and helping this podcast be in existence. And then, you know, we said this before. We're going to read a couple reviews real quick because we have some catching up to do. This first one comes in from gosh, Josh games, by the way, number one, awesome name, uh, name Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
What is this garbage, man? This is an Elden Ring. Why don't I just go play the real game? Yeah, exactly. I still have tons of hours of content I could do in Elden Ring if I wanted to do that, man. Yeah. All right. So Ryan, are we getting the official commitment to play Night Reign with Ace and I from you?
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
This is going to open up a world for Ryan, because if we go into this and Ryan likes it, then we're doing the Ryan Elden Ring co-op. threw all of Elden Ring together too man yeah yes and then and then Ryan's gonna be like I'm eating my words this game is so great it's so much more than just dodging Ryan will be the guy that it's like it's 3 a.m.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
and he's like guys guys they just fought the fire giant yesterday that probably will be what happens oh man all right and then hey we promised it what gamer doesn't love a little gaming drama
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
right your mama i'm gonna throw this one to you again buddy because i'll be honest i i'm not i'm not completely sure on this i like you mentioned this to us and i gotta preface this by saying oh my gosh josh you you what what does you coming from you i'm not sure about this i don't know because ace goes have you guys heard about the support strike in marvel rivals Now, Ace only plays support.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Ace has, like, I mean.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I'm going to give you props, not because you're a friend, but you're an incredible support player. I love, love playing with you because I know I'm getting heals. If I die, it's because you could not keep me alive. It's not because you weren't paying attention or you're off doing something else or like, oh, look at the flower. Like, it is because you could not keep me alive. And then that's great.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I can understand that. So Ace mains support, and he says, guys, it sucks playing support in Marvel Rivals. All the supports are going on strike because some guy said something mean about support players, and I just went, what are you talking about? So Ace, for the uninformed like myself,
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
As a lifelong gamer who has been playing video games way longer than most people, the support role is the most important role. Everybody knows about my days in EverQuest. You know who the most important role was? The healers.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
So anyway, I would just like to put on the record that here at the Video Gamers Podcast, we respect our support and we view them as the most important role in the game. So there you go. Okay, now back to you, Ace. Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Number two, awesome guy. Uh, Josh actually does some, uh, some Twitch streaming. I have personally tuned into a few of his streams. Um, really just genuine dude, entertaining to talk to and watch. Um, He's like me. He's got game ADD. So every single time he's playing something different.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Ping, ping, ping, dead. So part of this issue is that with Marvel rivals that the dive characters are the characters that are supposed to dive the back line and kill the healers. I play a dive character. I play Cap, which that's my job. My job is literally to just do nothing but make the healers lives miserable. And I take my job very seriously.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
You know, but dive characters are too strong in Marvel Rivals right now. And so it's too hard to stay alive as a healer, especially if you're solo queuing. I mean, in a coordinated team, two very good healers can kind of keep each other alive. But that's like a higher level, you know, type player kind of thing. And so what you said, Ace, is very true, is that it's just not fun. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I almost feel like it's like, you know, when you're like surfing Netflix or like Hulu or something, and you're just looking through whatever movies they have on there and you scroll past like a hundred of them. That's, that's like Josh with his games where it's just like, you know,
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Like, I don't heal very much. I like healing. I'm just not a good healer. But there's nothing worse. I mean, you got... Look, these games really aggravate me, okay? We were playing a few nights ago. I was trying to heal. I'm getting obliterated by a Black Panther.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Okay, but admittedly... I'm switching.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I'm not just sitting around to be a punching bag, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
So... And amazingly, NetEase is listening somehow. This created enough drama in Marvel Rifles that NetEase, who does not balance their characters mid-season, kind of went, guys, this is not good for our game. We have to tweak this. And so through this support strike, you guys got NetEase to listen. And they said, okay, we have to fix healers. We have to fix support in this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
And they're going to do it. We don't really know how yet. They've talked about buffing up how dangerous they are. So maybe you can just hold your own in a fight. You know, nerfing a couple of the stronger characters, rip cap.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Spider-Man getting that nerf.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
We'll see what happens. I thought this was fun because anybody that's playing Rivals knows what's going on. It's neat to see that this so-called strike actually got the developer to listen and actually say, okay, we're going to make some immediate changes to this and then we'll make some more at the end of the season kind of thing. We'll see.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I don't know how much they're going to change things, so that still remains to be seen, but I do think that Taking balance into consideration at any time during the point of a game is a good idea.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Spider-Man is still super OP, and Jeff is miserable to try to kill, dude. Those two characters infuriate me more than anything else in a video game ever.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Spider-Man can get deleted from the game for all I care, and Jeff needs to be able to be killed. That's all I'm saying, dude. It's all I'm saying. It's all about that team comp, bro. Ace is in the heart of playing Jeff right now, and he's getting really good at them, and I don't like it because I feel like you're going to the dark side, Ace.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I love this game and I hate this game so much, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I like hot dogs. I probably shouldn't be eating hot dogs every day, you know, because they're probably not good for me ultimately, even though I really, really like them. And that's like Marvel rivals, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I'll sit there and scroll for like 10 minutes straight. And then my wife's like, are you going to watch anything? And then I go, no, I think I'm just going to go play the computer. Oh, man. All right. So this review is titled Gaming Gains, and it says some people need metal to motivate them up in the gym.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Ace was the party leader, and he's like, Josh, do you need to finish ripping this guy, or should I re-cue us? And I just went, no, Ace, I'm just educating this guy. And that's what I've called it ever since. Education.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I can't help it, guys. I admit it. I admit it. I got a problem.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I'm too competitive is the problem, man. I really am, and I don't like losing. And so that serves me well in some ways and not so much in the being nice to random people in Marvel Rivals who all want to Insta-lock Spider-Man. Uninstall, bro.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
do it do as i say not as i do be good people yeah yeah so anyway you guys want to go play some rivals oh let's do it oh man all right well listen that's gonna do it for this episode everybody thank you for hanging out with us chatting video games it's one of our favorite things to do listen if you are new to the podcast thank you for joining us Um, we hope you had a good time.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
If you did remember to hit that follow button, that plus button so that you make sure you get our episodes of the day that they release. Um, you know, if you want the best gaming community in existence, you always hear us talk about our discord community. Everybody that has joined this community has literally confirmed and gone like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe that it's actually this cool.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
So don't take our word for it. Come check it out. We have people of all ages, men, women, everybody's gamers. There's no toxicity whatsoever. It really is like the oasis of the gaming culture, I guess. And I know it's hard for people to believe that that exists, but it actually exists.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
But Ace, I've never played Rivals, but I'm willing to install it. Can I play?
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
But all I need is the gravelly voice of Josh saying it's Ryan to amp me up for another episode of gaming discussion while I lift. Buys and tries, indies and RPGs go hand in hand as far as I'm concerned.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
They even gave it to Josh because it was free. 1v1 me, both of you, except for you and Jeff. I did 1v1 you as Mr. Fantastic, and you swapped to Iron Man.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
1v1 me again in a wider arena with very long sight lines where I can just play Hela.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
All right, everybody. Thank you for joining us. Until next time. Happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Video Gamers Podcast makes my morning gym sessions far more bearable, and the guys really feel like someone I could easily be gaming buddies and get along with, which is a great familiarity for the show. I'm also learning from them for my own content creation and discussion ideas. All around, always a great time, and honestly, the only podcast I listen to other than our own. Keep at it, guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Much love. Love it.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Much love indeed. Yeah. You're a good dude, Josh. We're glad to have you, buddy. And then, Ryan, you've got one as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I think that's Triple Ought.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Triple awesome. Oh, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, my goodness.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
i i mean look i said it at the intro last week was epic for games dude i mean you know i've been super excited for expedition 33 for months and months and months now we got the oblivion remaster and we went dude we are just eating good right now as gamers and then you know then everybody kind of like okay well and it's funny because even in our discord server it's like
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
May alone has us looking at A Midnight Walk, Doom the Dark Ages, and Elden Ring Night Rain, amongst others. And we've got a lot to cover for you. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh, and joining me, he's been closing the gates of oblivion with a side of Expedition 33. He's treating like a plate of green beans that he's being forced to eat. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
People went silent when Expedition 33 released and then everybody starts talking about it and then everybody goes back and they start playing it again.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
It's like, have you ever been at a restaurant and everybody's chatting and then the food shows up and everybody starts eating and it's dead quiet because everybody's just eating their food?
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
But guys, I mean, May is here. Isn't this episode released like May 1st, I think? So May is here. And I know people went, well, what now? Dude, May looks great, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Maybe. I mean, I hope so. I hope so. But look, so let's just touch on Expedition 33 very briefly. We are deep diving this game, so we're not going to give away a lot of thoughts. I know everybody is waiting to hear what Ryan thinks about Expedition 33, so no pressure, Ryan. John and myself have not been very good at hiding our thoughts on that game. Nope.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
For anybody that's not in our Discord server, I ain't telling you nothing. You're going to have to listen to the deep dive to know what I think. Maybe the hype is real, or maybe this game is just a crushing disappointment for me after all the waiting for it. You'll never know. But one thing we do know is this game done sold a million copies, boys. A million copies. Now, this is copies sold.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
This ain't no Ubisoft PR speak where it's like, we've had a million players. Yeah. Yeah. Now, they have sold a million copies of Expedition 33. And not only that, but they came out and they said that does not count Game Pass players. So this is a million people that actually purchased this game. That's good on you, man, because they deserve it.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
The craziest part about this is 30 developers made Expedition 33. That is insane, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Dude, I'm going to say this. If Ubisoft developed this game and released this game, Ubisoft would not be in the dire trouble that Ubisoft is in right now. Could have saved them. From a company standpoint. Yeah. But my goodness. So listen, you know, I don't want to harp on Expedition 33 for too long because, again, we're going to have that deep dive coming up soon for that one. But kudos to them.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Kudos to the developers.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
To make a game like this with the music, the graphics, the combat, the story. I mean, this game has all of those aspects in spades. And to realize that 30 people made this game is nuts to me, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Probably a lot. I don't know, Ryan, because the Game Pass stuff you can't track.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
It's almost like this also is a console game and on Game Pass.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I was going to say.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I was going to say, like, they don't, you know, Expedition 33 doesn't have the, you know, behind the Elder Scrolls name like Bethesda does. And the fact that they have as many players and have sold a million copies in, I think it took them 48 hours to sell a million copies. I know they sold a half a million in the first 24 hours.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
To be able to sell that many so quickly. To be fair, if they're going to take a page out of Bethesda's book, then within, I don't know, probably 2026, we're going to have, you know, Expedition 33 remastered, you know, director's cut, developer's edition.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
The definitive edition. 33.225 repeating, you know, all those. Oh, boy. All right. Well, let's get into some new games coming out, guys. This first one, this comes out in a week, and we have covered this game on this show before, but A Midnight Walk. Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
This game looks incredible. So for anybody that hasn't seen the trailer yet, Ace, I mean, this is an indie game, so this is right up your alley. But I mean, number one, the art style is incredible.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
You're not getting up until you put at least 20 hours into this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
Which actually threw people off because they were like, is this game available on PC or consoles? And they went, yeah, it's not just a VR game. This is actually... But it is also releasing for VR headsets. I don't know that I've seen a game that looks this cool, man. Like the... Is it all claymation too? We say stop motion, but it's like stop motion claymation.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I'll eat five. Seven. Seven. Six. Fine.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
I was going to say Coraline. I actually like Coraline more than A Nightmare Before Christmas.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
All right. I mean, that's fair. Fair enough. Yeah. I this game looks incredible I don't know what it's going to be like I mean to be fair and this is I'm not trying to be negative here but like south of midnight looked incredible and then everybody kind of went. It's really neat looking, but it didn't quite live up to like the hype levels for that. Like, you know, John played it completely.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
We had a couple other people that dabbled in it. I have not talked to a single person that went south of midnight is fantastic, dude. That's why I never picked it up. I was so into it.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
That's weird, dude, because like, you know, we say this all the time, but not every game is going to be a nine or a 10 and not every game is going to be a four or five. Right. I mean, but, but, Maybe it is. Maybe it's just the fact that we play a lot of games, you know, but a seven out of 10 game is is just like a waste of time. And that sounds terrible.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
It sounds terrible because it's like, but you're saying we made a good game, right? Like you're saying we made it like in this market. And in 2025, a seven out of 10 is an average video game. And so anybody that can make an average video game is doing way better than most other people.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
And joining us, he hasn't played either because he's busy campaigning for the rights of support players in Marvel Rivals. It's Ace.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
But at the same time, it's like, but I don't want to spend my time playing an average game when there's so many good games out there, dude. I'd rather play some indie game that I've never heard of before that's going to be great. Another crab's treasure is still on my backlog, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
And it's like, I would rather go play that that I know is going to be good and is supporting an indie dev than some 7 out of 10 game, like, south of midnight, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
nines and tens across the board like expedition 33 was you kind of just instantly lose interest if you weren't already super you know into it yeah i'll wait for a sale you know yeah exactly that's exactly what it is i'll catch it on sale will you no like that's the thing that's my point if south of midnight goes on and i'm not trying to slander south of midnight it's just the example i'm using here right so people that are like oh south of midnight's great
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
It might be. I haven't played it. I'm just using it as an example, okay?
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
If South of Midnight goes on sale for $15, that doesn't change it for me. If I know it's a 7 out of 10 game, and there's still... It's the time commitment. It's not the money commitment, necessarily. It's the fact that I've limited time for gaming... And I want to play games that are impressing me or memorable or something like that versus the I've had my fill of these seven out of 10 games, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
You know, I hate a Dragon Age Vilgard. I did not like it. But even then, I can still say, well, technically, this is a seven out of 10. Avowed, which we did not deep dive, is the definition of a seven out of 10. Now, I put about 15 hours into Avowed, but I kind of just went, I think I'd rather be playing something else, dude. Like, I'm not going to remember a Val a year from now.
Video Gamers Podcast
May’s Most Hyped Games, Rivals Support Strike and Expedition 33 - Gaming Podcast
That's the kicker, man. It's like, I'd almost rather a game just be memorably bad than to just be average at that point, man. So... You know, sorry to South of Midnight. Like I said, I mean, I've heard good things about the development team.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
The character abilities in this game are literally, it's like they took every skill in Overwatch and said, okay, we're gonna make Star-Lord. And they threw a dart, and the dart just landed squarely on Tracer. And they went, okay, well, he's got a blink, he can reload. Yeah. he's fast and zippy, super easy to kill. Uh, okay. And then who's next? Who's next? Ooh, let's do Thor, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And they threw a dart and it kind of landed between like Doomfist and Reinhardt. And then they went, okay, well we'll give them this ability and that ability. And so it, it, I feel like it is a ripoff of Overwatch, but I think that that is actually a very smart thing that they did. And I don't fault them for it at all because number one, Overwatch was the premier game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
People are comfortable with that. If you can take that level of comfort and import it into a game for people, it's going to be a win. It's a win for me. When I'm playing Marvel Rivals, guess what? It's instantly familiar to me. Like, I'm like, oh, this guy's got this leap ability. Okay, cool. Like, I know how to use that. I've been using it for years. Oh, this guy's just a pure shooter.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
If you want to play with us, come play with us. It's just a bunch of fun, man. But we were talking about it, and we said, man, it feels like it's been forever since we recorded a new episode. Yeah, yeah. And Christmas was yesterday. It was. So I think we're in the giving space. And we just said, man, we got to do a Marvel Rivals episode. We got to get on.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
The Punisher? Soldier 76? What? Like, okay, I instantly know how to play that guy. And so it's like, I think that it was very, very smart that they borrowed all this stuff from Overwatch and just instantly made it comfortable. But like you said, I do think that they improved on a lot of things in a lot of ways as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow duelists. Well, let's be honest. No one plays strategists or vanguards. And welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. We're supposed to be on break for the holidays, but we just can't help ourselves. So we're back early and we're going to be covering the new hotness that is Marvel Rivals. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
We'll get into the gameplay and some of the character stuff here in just a little bit. But, you know, we've seen that question, too, is this is just a rip off of Overwatch. Why should I play it? And it's like because it's different enough that it really makes you want to play it. And it's. Whether it's in that honeymoon phase or not, it's in that honeymoon phase. So it's just a blast right now.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
It's literally the kicker, right? You're going to have a good time no matter what. Okay. One difference, and this is a big difference for a lot of people. My daughter, who I mentioned earlier, who has been playing Overwatch just a ton, she tried Marvel Rivals. And she said, Dad, I don't like the third-person perspective. I think it's a great game. It plays kind of like Overwatch.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I think it's a solid game, but I can't get past the third-person perspective. Wow. Does that alter anything for you? Do you like it? Do you wish it was first person? Like, let's talk about that for a second. Cause it feels different enough to like see your whole character and have that view. And it changes some of like the viewing angles on corners and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
So what do you think about that? I, I, I,
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
It's really a non-issue for me. Like, I can play either. I think if you ask me, like, I prefer the first-person viewpoint. But I will say when you have a game like Marvel Rivals...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
It would look really funny as me to just see like Mjolnir in my hand as Thor and then me just swinging it in front of me, you know, like seeing these fantastic superheroes in these villains in all their glory kind of makes sense to me from that third person viewpoint. And so I get why they did it. It actually works in my opinion as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
So for somebody like me, it's a non-issue and I'm fine with either because But it does matter to people. There are people out there that just go, dude, I can't stand the third-person viewpoint. And that's what's throwing me off. And it's like, I get it. But it doesn't really... It doesn't matter to me. I would say I prefer first-person.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
But in this case with Marvel Rivals, it doesn't change anything as far as my ability to hop in and enjoy the game or play the game for that matter.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I don't know. Yeah, you're only their fists or their hands or their gun at that point, not like the actual character themselves. So all right, Ryan, we're talking about the characters. We are going there's 33 characters in this game. We are not going to dive into 33 characters. We'd be here for two hours, but we are going to talk about a few of those right after this short break.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
All right, we are back. You know, what's a hero shooter, Ryan, without heroes, right? And, you know, we call it a hero shooter, but I love the fact that there's villains in this game as well, and that you can be the villains if you want. You know, so let's get into a little bit about the characters and the way that this game is set up. Now, You know, I a hero shooter.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I love I absolutely love when you have a role to play in a game because it lets me find what I'm good at and it lets me fill that role and play the game kind of the way that I want to play it. And then on top of that, if I start to get bored with one of those roles, I can I can hop into a different role and it feels like a completely different game for me at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And this is one reason that Overwatch I have stuck with over the years. And it's one reason Marvel Rivals is so enticing to me right now is because I want to learn the rules. I want to be a good tank. I want to learn how to heal. Let's be honest, I already know how to DPS. But in this game... You know, it would be too simple if we called them tank DPS in support, Ryan. No, change it up.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
We can't call them that. What can you do? Come up with something crazy. The Hulk's not a tank. What is the Hulk? He's a, what's a word we could use to describe?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Somebody that leads the charge, maybe. Oh, what about that word Vanguard? Vanguard.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
oh those are the guys up front right the vanguard leads the leads the the charge right there you go okay so we're gonna call them vanguards um and then dps hmm you know these guys we don't want to just put them in this niche role where all they have to do is damage uh they're gonna be fighting other heroes and villains and maybe even 1v1 or something you know yeah like i mean it's important to win those ones yeah almost like they're dueling or something you know oh
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
So, you know, here we are. We're going to be covering Marvel Rivals. Don't worry. Our most anticipated games of 2025 episode comes out Thursday. Thursday. We are back, Ryan. We are back, baby. We are back. We are back. We are. Yeah, this is not a one timer. We're back. The show is back on. We've got new episodes. Thanks for everybody that listened to our repeat episodes.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I love it. Oh, my goodness. Okay. Well, wait, wait. Now do the healers. Okay. Wait. Oh, we can't call them healers. Nobody calls them healers anymore. Even Overwatch calls them supports.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
They're usually in the back, seeing everything that's happening.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
No, no, no. I just said we can't call them healers. You said strategy?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Let's call them strategists.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I was going to say, this is the board meeting that happened where they're like, we can't call them just tanks, healers, and DPS. We got to come up with these weird terms. I'll be honest. I had to look up the terms. I know the icons. Like in-game, where it's like the fist and it's the open hand. Yeah. And then I was like, I don't know what these things are called.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I'm like, yes, we're all DPS. Dang it. Yeah. Come on. Somebody go take me. So they do call them vanguards, duelists and strategists. This is everything you have come to know and love about shooters. Every character is placed into a role and they're very good at whatever that particular role is. What's your favorite role, Ryan?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I want to roll Moon Knight, please.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I default into the duelist role, so the DPS role, because I think I'm pretty good at it. It's actually not the role that I prefer, believe it or not. So I like playing healer and I like playing tank. The problem for me is that I'm having a hard time coming to grips with the tanks in this game because they're so different that I need to learn a tank. And it's funny because...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
literally over the last 24 hours and in our discord server, I even said like, I just started playing Thor last night to dabble in this guy. Like I need to learn a tank because that's the role that I really enjoy playing, but I'm just getting wrecked.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And so it's been hard, but you know, I, I think that's where I want to land up as being a very good tank, but I'm also very happy playing a support or strategist in this case as well. This is another thing that this game has nailed is it is fun to play a support class. It is fun to play the tanks.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
You know, just because you are healing people doesn't mean that you're not having a ton of utility or even DPS capabilities and stuff like that. I think that's a masterful way to make it fun to heal and tank at the same time for those classes. But let's be honest. You get five duelists and maybe one healer, maybe one tank. I was trying to learn tank last night.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I hopped in, and I insta-locked Thor, and then I saw five DPS, and I just went, come on, man. Oh, no heals for you, buddy. I swapped a healer instead just because it was like, we don't need another DPS. That's funny. But yeah, I mean, that's the way it goes.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And they make it easy to do that with some of these characters. OK, so there is a roster of 33 characters in this game. They were all available at release. Again, no, no buying a character nonsense or anything like that right now. we don't have time to dive into 33 characters.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Those were good episodes, man. I was just listening to the Pacific Drive one this morning on my way to work. And I was like, I remember why we hated this game so much.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
But what I do want to do is maybe just pick one or two and why they stand out to you, or maybe what it is about them that makes this game fun or kind of unique or something like that. So Ryan, I've been teasing you about Moon Knight this whole time. I have not played a single match of Moon Knight. What? I have no clue what Moon Knight plays like because I know that that's your guy. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And as your bro, I'm not stealing your guy from you.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I'm going to talk about my girl Hela here in a minute. That's true. So let's talk about Moon Knight for a second. As your favorite character, he is a – we're just going to call him DPS, right? He is a DPS character. But what is it about Moon Knight that makes him stand out to you? What are some of his abilities? How does he play in the game, so to speak?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
His Ankhs are like traps almost, right? I see them and they create an area of effect around them, but do they do anything if you're not shooting them? If I'm just standing in this field of an Ankh, nothing happens, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
What's funny is people don't pay attention to the aux very much. When I get a match like that... I played around last night. There was literally two of them on our cart. We're moving the payload, and there's just an enemy aux sitting there. And I'm like, does nobody see this thing?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Now, we have always said we are gamers. We're not experts. And I was thinking about what's a game that was disappointing to us? Because we do not do the, oh, every game's great. It has something to be praised kind of thing. We're also not rage baiters. So we're not slamming every game that comes out and talking about how terrible it is and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
So grapple hook, the ability to float these AOE kind of ability skills. Every character has an old. So Moon Knight, you know, you can do a lot with him.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
You know, as far as the getting around the battlefield, setting up these traps, you know, everybody just has a standard basic attack where, you know, you just shoot people and then that does a chunk of health and stuff like that, too. For me, I really enjoy playing a wide variety of characters until I find who I kind of land on as far as, oh, I had a really good match with that person.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Hela to me is my girl. She is so simple in theory, but she is so effective if you can aim. Yes. So Hela is a DPS character. If you've ever played Zenyatta in Overwatch, that is basically like her attack, right? It's like Zen throwing the orbs, which I'm terrible at Zenyatta in Overwatch. But for some reason, Hela just throws these swords and they...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
wreck people so much damage wreck people if you can hit them or if you hit a headshot so she is a kind of mid tier to even longer range character and I just sit back and I throw these swords at people and I have decent aim and I think that pays off in this game because I don't tell yourself sure you got good aim dude come on I've been obliterating people as hella and and it's just been so glorious and then on top of that
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I figured out that one of the most OP hated characters in the game by the name of Iron Fist. Yes. We'll talk about him a little bit later when we talk about balance. Hela can counter Iron Fist very well because she gets a stun ability. And then I can just throw a sword straight into his stupid face and it almost one-shots him. And it just completely shuts Iron Fist down.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And we figured this out and it was the greatest thing ever because now it's like, oh, okay, I'll deal with him. Let him come to me. But she's just a simple, just hit your shots from far away roll. And I love it because it's just that really satisfying sound when you hit the headshot, that tink, tink.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
sound and then it's like oh they're dead and then it's like i'll just start counting like okay one there's two there's three oh i got four boys you know and then it's just it's a good time so okay we can't spend forever on characters ryan but we we have to talk about jeff because jeff has taken over the world jeff is a land shark I had no idea that Jeff actually existed in the Marvel Universe.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I thought this was just a play by the developers to have the cutest freaking creature you could imagine in a video game that is a hero shooter. Jeff is a freaking shark. He's just a land shark, dude. But Jeff is the happiest shark you have ever seen. Jeff is a fantastic healer. Absolutely great. So you instantly love Jeff because he's healing the crap out of you.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
We are just honest to goodness, lifelong gamers. And so not every game is going to resonate with us. And I thought, you know what? I want to play this episode again for people because number one, it came out early in the year. And number two, it was a big disappointment to us. And I wanted to kind of put it out there because it was a game that we were very hyped for. Yeah, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And then Jeff's old allows him to swallow everybody in an area and then run them to the edge of the map and then spit them all off into oblivion. And so he gets these crazy play of the games as well. The reason I bring up Jeff is because I saw quite possibly the best cosmetic in a video game that I have ever seen in my life. And you were there. I think you were there when we hopped in.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And I don't remember if it was Ace or who it was, but had Jeff. But Jeff was wearing a fuzzy pink dolphin costume.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And I went, what is that? And then everybody started laughing. It's like, oh, it's a dolphin costume. And I went, why is he dressed up like a dolphin? He's a shark. And they said, yeah, he doesn't want to scare people. So he dresses up like a dolphin instead. And I'm an old grizzled dude, man. And I literally just went, oh, that's the cutest thing I've ever seen in my life.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Little tongues hanging out half the time. And oh my goodness. This is, listen, this is an indicator of a good video game and good character design because some characters you instantly love and then some characters you instantly hate. Like Iron Fist. Screw that guy. Yeah. Anybody that plays Iron Fist, man, you don't deserve to play this game, okay? Because everybody hates you.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So this is where it's masterful because if the other enemy team has a Spider-Man, you are looking up in the sky and you know he's zipping around and he's going to try to land on one of your healers and punch them in the face. Uh, you know, giant Hulk, you know, Hulk's going to jump into your team and try to punch somebody.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Uh, you know, Hella sitting in the back and just shooting swords at people, man. You can't just leave her alone. Hawkeye, Hawkeye, just sniping everybody.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
He's like, Oh, I won't call him Hawkeye. I just call him Hanzo. And everybody's like, he's, he's Hawkeye. I'm like, it's Hanzo. This is one of those characters where there's no difference whatsoever. It's the same thing. Yeah. They play exactly the same. You just peek corners and shoot arrows randomly, and then you get some headshot, and the guy dies, and you're like, oh, I'm so good.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
No, you're not good. You just shoot arrows blindly everywhere, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And it just goes to show you that we're not always going to be right on things that we think are going to be great. And that's just part of being a gamer, man. Sometimes a game's not going to live up to the expectations you have. And I think Pacific Drive more so than like Dragon Age Veil Guard caught us off guard with how disappointed we were.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. So but, you know, kudos to the team that developed this game. They captured the feel of these heroes. They captured the essence of a lot of these heroes. Spider-Man feels like freaking Spider-Man. Yeah. You know, Hulk feels like Hulk. You know, they just they did a masterful job with this. Even Star-Lord, which is Tracer. But he feels good, man. Like he's fast. He's zipping around.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
He's got his twin little pistols and it kind of fits.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
All right, before we move on, because this wasn't actually something that we thought we were going to talk about, but you mentioned the interaction. So let's touch on the team up mechanics real quick. Yes. Because this is one of those things that I think is phenomenal. Yes. And I remember the first time we heard about this game,
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I remember talking and saying, dude, if you can throw Thor's hammer against Captain America's shield and it emits a shockwave or something, that would be the coolest thing ever. Or Iron Man deflecting his beam off of Cap's shield or something like that. The possibilities are endless. And then lo and behold, the devs are not dumb because they absolutely came up with these team-up abilities.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Now, maybe it's not something as glorious as ricocheting Iron Man's beam off of Cap's shield. But there's equally glorious stuff. Like if you're Hulk, you can pick up Wolverine and shuck him like a missile at people, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
If you're Rocket Raccoon, you can ride Groot and just stay on Groot's shoulder and shoot people, man. Like there's so many of these interactions. And sometimes maybe they're not as flashy as chucking Wolverine like he's a rocket somebody. But it's little things like when you're Moon Knight, who does Moon Knight team up with where you get to go invis? I can't remember the character.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Cloak and Dagger. So I was playing Cloak and Dagger. And because they have this team up ability, you can now go invisible. Yes. Because I am playing Cloak and Dagger, you can trigger the team up ability that lets you go invis for a little while. And this exists in every character in the game. Now, not every character interacts with every other character, but...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
But the game will tell you, hey, these characters have a team up ability. So if you pick Hela, like I like to play Hela, Hela is from the Norse mythology. So if somebody is playing Thor or Loki while I am playing Hela, if I get a kill while they are dead, it will insta-res them.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Like we knew with Dragon Age Veil Guard that there was a good chance that that game was going to suck.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
You know, and this goes for every character in the game. They have one or two team up people that they can play. It is an absolute game changer in the sense of it just makes it fun to have certain characters on your team. The team up abilities are not OP. They're not like ultimate abilities or anything like that, but they're just a little bit of flavor. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
That when you use it, it's super cool to be able to say like, oh, I can go in Viz now? I was playing Thor last night trying to learn tank, and I died, and Arhella got a kill. And I see myself getting rekt, and I'm like, oh, I'm back, baby! I'm back, baby!
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And so I was like Pacific Drive, man, that's the one.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Honestly, I don't really have a lot to say. The maps work. I think they're all fine. I don't know that I have gotten to where I prefer certain maps over others. I do. They all are fine. I do.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. As far as modes go as well, this is everything people are familiar with. Move the payload, capture the point, fight over the center point, try to capture two, three points kind of thing. A lot of times, if you capture a point and hold it, it will then go to a round two. This is everything that people are familiar with. There's really nothing new here.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
But again, sometimes that comfort and familiarity is all you need. They didn't try to change a lot in this regard. And it works for me because these are modes that I'm used to and know how to play. And it's like, oh, hey, everybody, get on the payload. Let's move this thing. And so I think that those work as well. You did touch on... You hinted at it, Ryan. So let's talk...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
about one of the glaring, glaring issues with this game right now. And that is the balance. Any new game that comes out like this, when you start getting a million, 3 million, 4 million people playing a game, humans are crafty. And they are going to figure out which characters are good at which things. They're going to figure out certain strategies and the synergies and all this stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And this is not a thing that is unique to Marvel Rivals. Overwatch, when it first came out, had huge balance issues. And I don't know if people remember that far back, but they were there. Bastion had a frontal shield. You know, I mean, Sim could put six turrets down and her beam would lock on. You didn't even have to aim at people. I mean, there were issues, right? So...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
The main thing, the main complaint I should say that I see from people is there's zero balance in this game. Some characters are just super oppressive and they're too easy to play. Hela being one of them. I started playing Hela early on and then come to find out as people are, oh, Hela's one of the most OP characters in the game. She needs an IRF. And I'm like...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Oh, I just thought I was really good at her, but you might be right. So how do you feel about the balance in the game? Is this a detriment to the game like a lot of people are saying, or is it a little bit of the magic?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Oh, my goodness. So we have always said that we do this podcast because we are passionate about gaming, but it is the support of the listeners that keeps this show going. And I think we're going... on year four or five now, dude, of doing this podcast. You are a vet. You are a veteran, my friend. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Back up just a second. You were crying about Iron Man the other night, and then I was like, okay, I'll switch. And then I started wrecking the Iron Man, and then you were all happy about it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I remember you going like, dude, this Iron Man just keeps wrecking me.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I will say that I think that the lack of balance is a little bit of the magic that is going on right now. And as frustrating as it can be, because it can be frustrating when you see an enemy Iron Fist and he's just obliterating your support characters and there's nothing you can do. And you're like, dude, this guy is like Velcro. This is a stupid character. Who designed this guy?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
You know, it's infuriating until you learn...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
oh well this character kind of counters him because this character has a stun and if you can stun him for a half a second you can kill him because he doesn't have a lot of life yeah well lo and behold guess what now iron fist isn't so much of an issue anymore and we're seeing this it's it's literally happening before our eyes where people are figuring out different characters like winter soldier looks like the dumbest like simplest character in the game because he's got an arm and he's got a pistol and you're like well this doesn't seem fun okay all of a sudden
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. All of a sudden people figured out that his old, if you kill somebody with his old, did you get your old refreshed?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Right. And so, and then he goes, Oh God, you're seeing these videos of winter soldier obliterating an entire enemy team over and over and over again because they keep just streaming out of their spawn. Yeah. And he just smashing them.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. But Winter Soldier, if he doesn't have his ult or you kill him, now he's not as effective. And so, dude, I was playing last night. Does Wolverine scare you in the least when you see an enemy Wolverine?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Right. Okay. And so I have always loved Wolverine and I have said, man, I need to learn how to play Wolverine, dude. But Wolverine, every time I've come up against one, I'm like, this guy doesn't do anything. And I wind up killing him. I came up against an enemy Wolverine last night that was so freaking good. It was unbelievable.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And so we would not be doing this still to this day if it wasn't through the support of the listeners. And so we have always said, if you like the content, if we make your commute better, if we make your gym session better, if we make your chores better, think about supporting the show. You can do that over at MultiplayerSquad.com. You can sign up for as little as $5 a month.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And now all I want to do is learn how to play Wolverine like that guy, because... One thing I learned is Wolverine is a tank shredder. He's not a 1v1 guy. If you try to take on another DPS as Wolverine, you're probably not winning that. But Wolverine will obliterate tanks in this game, and that's his role. And that's what this guy was doing. I was playing tank, and this guy is just shredding me.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
that's the fun of the game that's part of the balance or lack of balance is that people are figuring things out and part of that is is that there is balance there but you have to figure it out and i think that is part of the magic and the fun is saying okay this character seems like they're very very strong who counters that character because they do exist now that doesn't mean that there's definitely not some tweaks that they probably should make at some point but
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
But there's just this kind of happy chaos that is happening in Marvel Rivals right now that is, I think, a reason that people are actually really having so much fun with it is because it's not homogenized like Overwatch is to where no character stands out at all. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, it's true. So enjoy the lack of balance, I think is the takeaway there. But also, and I want to touch on this real quick right now, because I have seen people saying that they feel like they've missed a Marvel Rivals train already. Where it's like, oh, well, I see all these people playing it, learning these characters, and I haven't touched this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Now is the time to jump in and start playing because nobody has things figured out yet. You know, there are people that have been playing nonstop since this game came out, 14 hours a day. And yes, they're getting very, very good with some characters, but it's still early. They have not even done a balance patch yet. You know, like anything like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
So if you're one of those people that's thinking, oh, I missed the train. You have not missed the train. Hop on because this is a fun ride to be on right now. Yes. And there's so many different characters and so many types of characters that you will find a role for you and people that you like playing. And so come play with us, man. Because we're having a blast.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
It's just fun. It's a competitive game, but I have not seen anybody being overly competitive. Well, don't go to comp. Well, yeah, I'm not playing comp. All right, Ryan, a couple more questions, or actually one more question, then we'll kind of get in our overall thoughts on the game. Should Marvel Rivals institute the 2-2-2 role queue?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And so for those that aren't familiar, that means this is something that Overwatch did because they were facing too many balance issues. And so basically that means that a team is required to have two tanks, two healers, and two DPS. And the reason that they do this is for balance and kind of fun and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Do you think that Marvel Rivals should institute that so that you don't wind up with these matches where you have five DPS in a tank and then it just spirals out of control?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
which is nothing nowadays, but it really does go a long way to help. And Ryan, man, we've been off for two weeks, and in that two weeks, we got seven new supporters.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I I'm with you as well. I think it should be up to the team in this case. And again, I talked about homogenizing everything and turning this game into current Overwatch. I don't think it's going to be beneficial for it. And, you know, in that case, so I'll let people be the, again, I played last night. I was trying to learn tank.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I had five DPS on my team and I'm like, dude, I'm not going to play tank with no healer whatsoever. So I just switched and I went healer, you know, and it's like, I still had a blast. We got steamrolled, but you know, but it was, it was still a fun match at that point. And it let me play healer instead.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Um, but yeah, I, I think I'm actually against the role queue where initially I thought it was for it, but the more that I play, the more I kind of relish this, just let people play how they want to play. And if they want to work it out, they can. And if they don't, that's okay too. All right, Ryan. We got to wrap this episode up because we got some Marvel rivals to play.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Overall thoughts on the game. What's the best and worst part about it?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I mean, just Merry Christmas to the show. So we want to thank... All these people that signed up for our rare status, and that is going to be Carl Winslow, the one and only. We've got Logan. We've got Riley Dismukes. We've got Nick Eifert, Mario Romo, and Dave Brough.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I will say I am the sweatiest, most aggravated person when it comes to Overwatch. And I am like absolutely like I refuse to be that way with Marvel rivals. Yeah. You know, because it's like I don't like that Overwatch makes me angry. And it's like, I just want to have fun. And Marvel Rivals has been 100% fun to me. So you mentioned it and I'm going to second what you said.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
The best part about this game right now is every single match that I play, whether we get steamrolled or not, I have a good time because the characters... are unique enough and have neat enough abilities. And I feel like I can solo influence the match, you know, by how I am playing.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
It doesn't mean we're going to win, but at least if I look at, you know, if I'm playing DPS and I'm like, dude, I'm 17 and four and the next best person on my team is six and eight, at least I am doing well. And I can kind of, you know, view my, myself against the team in that regard. It's just a blast right now, dude. It really is just so much better. pure fun for a free-to-play game. Free, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
It's free. No, we haven't.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And so, I mean, I just have a darn good time, like every single time. And even the matches where I'm like, dude, I have not played the first round of this character. Let me hop in. I don't know what the heck these abilities are, but I'm spamming them all and figuring things out. And it's like, okay, well, this is kind of neat. For me, I will say the worst part. Yes, there's balance issues.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
But like you said, I think there's a little touch of magic in that. The worst part is just matchmaking. And that is part of it. And I think I would like to believe that this will work itself out as more people play longer and the game hopefully develops like an MMR system or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
But there are a few matches where we get in and we have played, and it's like within the first 60 seconds, I'm like, dude, there's no way we'll win this match. You can just tell the other team is coordinated, advanced, and knows what the heck they're doing. And nobody on our team knows what the heck they're doing. And we don't stop the payload once. We don't even touch the point.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
We get spawn camped or whatever it is. That's just the nature of these kind of games. And as frustrating as it is for somebody like me, who is naturally very competitive, and I hate getting steamrolled, it's just part of the game, man. Thankfully, it's quick and it's over. And then the next match is usually a lot better. But it is just, that's the worst part.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Like, honestly, it's just sometimes you're going to get absolutely boat raced by some team and you're like, dude, what the heck?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
We're like Walmart heroes and they're like the Marvel heroes.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
All signed up for rare status to support the show. Thank you so much to every single one of you. And then we had a fine gentleman by the name of Detmerp sign up for epic status. Detmerp came out of nowhere, Ryan, into our lives. Hopped into the Discord server, says, hey, man, I've been listening for a while. Figured I'd finally check out this community that you guys are hyping up.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
The other thing is it's just as likely that the enemy team has one of those as well. Exactly, yeah. And then there's nothing more fun than just wrecking that poor kid and then just teabagging him over and over again, you know? Get good, scrub. Yeah, get good. All right, Ryan. Well, people have heard us kind of gush over Marvel Rivals. It's time to go to the leaderboard, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
We've been playing this game enough and we are going to rank this game on our leaderboard because it deserves to be on the leaderboard. And so people can actually get an idea of how we feel about this game overall. So why don't you start us off, Ryan? You know, people can see our leaderboard at VideoGamersPod.com. This is where we rank every game that we have done a deep dive on.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
um and so you can look at this if you want to pick out a game to play or you want to see what's great or what games to avoid or just kind of our thoughts on some of these um but ryan start us off where are you ranking marvel rivals on the leaderboard so if you can't tell i kind of like this game i've had uh i've got about you know probably like i said about 60 hours probably within uh three weeks or so um
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Just to give people context, 9.1 on Ryan's leaderboard is equal to Hogwarts Legacy, Hollow Knight, Fallout New Vegas, Tears of the Kingdom, Grand Theft Auto Online, Call of Duty Warzone, and Destiny 2. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Now, I will say that, you know, we again, we may be in the honeymoon phase of this game, maybe fun of it and stuff like that. You know, we're on a break as far as games that we have to play for the podcast, which has been very refreshing for us. And so it's nice to just have this game that I want.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
to play yes and i can and like you said this is one of the nice things too is if you got 10 minutes you can fit in a match matchmaking is instantaneous it is like the second you click you click play it's like match found boom you're in yeah you know and so that's actually really nice as well ryan i'd call you crazy but i am going to rate this an 8.8 on my leaderboard so yeah All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And joining me, he Insta-locks Moon Knight, and he's been staring at more cake than a baker. It's Ryan. Oh, God.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I will qualify this by saying I am a huge fan of hero shooters. I always have been. I get excited about them. Not all of them pan out. Concord, I dove into Concord. It was terrible. I said that right away. I said, this game sucks. I've loved Overwatch since the day it's released. Marvel Rivals is legit.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And maybe that honeymoon period will end after 100 hours or 200 hours or 1,000 hours or whatever it is. But we can only rate a game on how we feel playing it right now. And right now, this game is just a ton of freaking fun, man. Every time I hop in, especially if we hop in with people. And how many times have we had a group of four, five, six people?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And it's like, dude, if you're playing with buddies, even if you're getting your butts destroyed, you're still having fun with your friends, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Yes. And so, I mean, I am just absolutely loving this game. I'm putting it at an 8.8 on my leaderboard. That puts it equal to Metal Gear Solid 5, Resident Evil 4, Heavy Rain, Apex Legends, Black... Actually, one spot above Black Myth Wukong, because I have that at an 8.7. So... All this to say, if you are not checking this game out, you're missing out on something because it is free to play.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Do we lie about how awesome our Discord server is, Ryan?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
It's cross-play. You can play it on your console. You can play it on PC. It's kid-friendly in the sense that it's easy to pick up and just hop into. Don't let the cast of characters intimidate you. You'll find somebody you like. They have actually a very robust training ground. The training ground's awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I'd love... Dude, I will go and spend like 30 minutes in the training ground just learning the characters' buttons and abilities and stuff. So that's a huge thing, in my opinion. Yeah. I mean, play this game, man. There's nothing to not like about it unless you just... If you're the kind of person where you're like, hero shooters are not for me, fine. I get that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
But you at least understand why people are liking this game right now. And it's kind of taking the world by storm as well. So, yeah. High praise from myself and Ryan. All right. Damn some high scores, man. That's a real high score. Yeah. You know, like I said, maybe that'll change down the road. But for right now, man, I know we're both just having an absolute blast in this game. Yep.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Ryan, it's good to be back, baby. Yes. 2025 is going to be a phenomenal year for the podcast. We have so many things in store for people. For those that have been with us over the years, thank you. Your support means the world to us. It really does. It's the reason that we turn these microphones on and the reason that we play these games and the reason we keep coming back to do this.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
If you're just tuning in, Stick with us. I mean, you know, you're going to find that we love video games. We are gamers. We're not experts. We're not industry people. We're just dudes that love playing video games and talking about them. And so we're happy to have you with us.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
If this is your first time listening to a show, make sure you click that follow button or that plus button in your podcast app. So you get all of our shows the day that they release. We are going to be back Thursday, Ryan. Oh, what are we doing? What are we doing? I don't know. Just probably some random episode. Or maybe we're talking about our most anticipated games of 2025.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And there's rumor we're going to have a special guest with us, Ryan. Oh, okay. We'll just keep that on the down low. It's not just going to be me and you for that episode. A little extra extra. Yeah, so that'll be Thursday. So if you have no idea what games should be on your radar for 2025, boy, we're going to gush over all of them and talk about them and which ones have us excited.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
It's always fun to revisit that episode later in the year because we realize just how right we were and how wrong we were on a lot of these games too. So that is it for this episode. We'll see you Thursday. We're back, everybody. Thanks for sticking with us. And until next time, happy gaming. See ya!
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And not to call out Detmerp, but it was funny because he said, you know, I love the podcast and I've been listening for a while. But once he joined the Discord server, that's when he was like, OK, I'm going to support the show because this community is awesome. Yeah. You guys were kidding. And I was like, well, take it, man. However, you know, we're not picky. Spread the word. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Thank you to all of you and to everybody that continues to support this podcast. There is a reason that we are the top independent gaming podcast out there. And it is because of our listeners and because of the passion that you all have for gaming. We are very humbled by it. We're very thankful for it as well. And we've got some big things in store for 2025, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
It's going to be a good year, buddy. Good year. So, well, you know, let's do this, Ryan. Let's get into Marvel Rivals. I can't remember because we've talked about Marvel Rivals a few times. We covered it when it was announced. You know, we talked about it a few times leading up to its open beta that it had. I can't remember. Did you get to play the open beta at all?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
All right, so then your first playtime was just the actual release of Marvel Rivals then. Yep, once it came out. Because I do remember getting into the beta, and I do remember playing it. I famously am a huge fan of Overwatch. It's one of my favorite games ever. It's probably my second most played game as far as hours. One, not two. One, not two. Yes. Yes. So, and Overwatch just infuriates me.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
So when this clone of Overwatch came out, but with Marvel characters, it really drew my attention. There was something instantly familiar about it. I played the beta. I went, dude, this game's actually kind of fun, man. All right, all right. You know, yeah, like exactly. It was kind of like, okay, this is not bad.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And I had a good time and then the beta went away and then it was just gone for a couple months. Well, lo and behold, the game finally releases and You have a chance to jump in. I jump back in because I go, hey, that was a fun time that I had. And we're going to cover it because we've been playing it a good bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And if you've been living under a rock or you're just not on social media at all, then maybe you haven't seen the gajillion reels and TikToks that are out about this game now. But it is taking the world by storm. They had 20 million people. 20 million people. that have picked up and played Marvel Rivals. It's got a huge concurrent player count going on. This is the current hotness.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
They're superheroes, man. Of course they do squats. Absolutely. That's what they're here for. Yeah, exactly. This is just a realistic representation of fictional characters, man. God bless it. Oh, boy. Well, Ryan, here we are. Hopefully the listeners are like, wait a minute. I thought we weren't getting a new episode till 2025. Yeah, right.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
So I think the general consensus is I'm seeing a lot of chatter about Marvel Rivals, but is it actually fun? Is this just a flash in the pan? Is this the hotness for the month of December, but then it's going to just fade away into obscurity in another month? So that is actually... the kind of topic that I want to chat about for a second, because I know you, you've been playing way more than me.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I've still been on that Path of Exile 2 grind, but I have absolutely been hopping in with you guys when I know that there's, I have friends playing. I've actually hopped in solo quite a few times to just kind of practice a character or something like that. But Fully admitting that we're probably in that honeymoon phase right now. Are we in the honeymoon phase?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
Like, do you think that this game's just a fad and a flavor of the month? Or do you think, based on the gameplay and the merit of the game itself, that it actually has legs to stand on and will be around and popular in another few months?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I agree with you 100%. And it's one of those things, I have always been a fan of character shooters. Again, I've not hidden my love and disdain for Overwatch and then Overwatch 2 over the years. I still hop into Overwatch a few times a week to play with my daughter because she's huge into it. But there is something about Marvel Rivals that is catching on.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And I think people were very hungry for a quality hero shooter. And I think that this is it. And I think people that have been playing Overwatch like myself for so long have just kind of stuck with it because it's familiar and it's comfortable, but it's also grown very stale and it has its aggravations.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And with Marvel Rivals, it's got that familiarity to it that kind of gives you that comfort, but it's got the newness there. that is really drawing people in, especially people like myself, where if you ask me, right now, you want to play Overwatch? You want to play Marvel Rivals? I'm going to say Marvel Rivals, hands down. And so I do think it has staying power.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
No, we're back, dude. We have been playing Marvel Rivals. We know so many people that have been playing this game. It is taking the world by storm. You and I have been playing a good bit together, which has been a blast. We've been playing with Ace of Shame and some of the other listeners. And I mean, honestly, it's just one of those games that lends itself to...
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I think with the way that they've set this game up, with the way that they have just released it with all the characters, they're not trying to monetize this to death. Uh, you know, they're not dangling the battle pass and stuff in front of people, you know, like we're not seeing a lot of the predatory stuff that really throws gamers off at least yet.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
And the fact that people have brought their friend groups over to Marvel rivals, they're having fun with it. There, there's something there. I think it's going to stay, you know, maybe it's not going to stay at 20 million players or something like that necessarily. But I do think Marvel rivals is here to stay as the kind of premier, uh, hero shooter out there.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I think it's displaced Overwatch, and I think it's probably going to stay there for quite some time, man. All right, Ryan. Now, I've mentioned Overwatch quite a few times, so let's just talk about the elephant in the room, okay? Because, I mean, you'd have to be blind.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
look at marvel rivals and look at overwatch and go these games seem very similar and overwatch has been out for a long time marvel rivals has only been out for a few weeks now so is marvel rivals a ripoff of overwatch This is hard.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Marvelous Marvel Rivals - Gaming Podcast
I'm just going to call it, it's a rip-off. It is a rip-off of Overwatch. That's not a bad thing. There's a lot of people that say, it's not a rip-off, man. It's got the team-up system, and it's got all these characters. Yeah, see, there's some stuff. It's a little different. It's a rip-off. And I am absolutely okay with that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
I know, I know. Oh, Mann. Und mit uns. Am liebsten ist sie die Stimme von Olivia von Monster Hunter Wilds. Und ihr habt sie gehört in Spielen wie Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, Spider-Man 2, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2, Neon White und, naja, einfach viele Spiele und Shows. Eine ganze Menge. Es ist Alison.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Es ist nicht so, dass ich es nur aus Verständnis kommt.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Du hast etwas erwähnt, das wirklich faszinierend ist. Ich möchte mich ehrlich sagen, dass wir mit ein paar anderen Voice Actors gesprochen haben. Es ist die Angst, eine Audition zu machen, einen Job zu buchen, mit verschiedenen Leuten zu arbeiten und so weiter. Aber du hast den kleinen Business-Aspekt erwähnt. Ja.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Und ich denke, das ist etwas, das mich auf den Weg gebracht hat, wo es ist, wenn du, wenn du ein Voice Actor bist und du Erfolg in dieser Rolle siehst, bist du wie dein größter Asset in diesem Fall, weißt du? Und um in diesem Bereich erfolgreich zu sein, would require that you look at that as a business in a sense. And I think people go, I got a job, I got a gig, this is amazing, I'm so excited.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
But when you get to a certain level, you have to have that business mindset to say, I am managing me, I am managing my talent and putting it out to the world. What is that like? I don't think we think about that, to be honest with you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
It's just three different cameras. Awkwardly three different cameras. Okay. Right? Oh, Allison, it is super awesome for you to join us. I mean, we are really excited to have you on the show. So, number one, thank you for giving some of your time to come on here and chat with us goofballs. Hi, Allison!
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
that a lot of voice acting is done in a booth and so a lot of times you are by yourself and it's like again just personal preference if somebody was like hey do you want to come down to the studio and you guys can you know meet up and record and go over stuff like i would jump on that because like you said i feel like you would just get that energy from that at that point i love it i mean commercials i think it's just fine to do them at home
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Es ist lustig. Viele Leute sagen das. Sie sagen, dass es eigentlich schwieriger ist, zu arbeiten als zu gehen. Weil du dich dedizierst. Wenn du zu einem Büro oder einem Ort gehst, bekommst du in dieser Arbeitsmeinschaft. Aber wenn du zu Hause bist, ist es sehr schwierig, zu sagen, okay, ich werde mich auf Arbeit konzentrieren. Aber dann hast du die Kinder spielen, die Hunde laufen, etwas geht los.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Du bist interessiert, was passiert. Und es ist sehr einfach, in dieser Weise enttäuscht zu werden. Ja. Alright, well, Alison, listen, we are a gaming podcast, so we've got to talk about some video games with you here. And, just that it happens to be a very recent game, Monster Hunter Wild.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
We have actually a lot of people in our community that have been absolutely enamored with it. I played Monster Hunter World back in the day, but I have not gotten a chance to play Wilds yet. But it is absolutely on my radar as well. What are you doing this weekend? I know, right? Yeah, there's Marvel Rivals Season 2 is coming out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, right. There you go. So, you know, let's let's let's check games just a little bit here. Mit Monster Hunter ist es ein riesiges Franchise. Bist du damit bekannt? Hast du diese Spiele gespielt, bevor du in Wilds kamst und mit ihnen gearbeitet hast?
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Es ist so schwer, eine beschäftigte Karriere zu balancieren und dann die, du weißt, Leute denken, Videospiele nehmen viel Zeit und sie tun es. Oh ja. Absolut. Ich denke, ich bin glücklich, dass ich nicht so viel TV schaue. Du weißt, viele Leute gehen manchmal und sie weinen am Ende der Nacht und sie sitzen auf der Couch und sie schauen TV. Ich will diese Interaktion. Ich will etwas tun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Also für mich sind Videospiele eigentlich, wie ich mich am Ende des Tages entspann.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Aber es gibt absolut das wahnsinnige Gedanke, dass es so ist, dass es viel Zeit dauert, weil ich dieses Ziel habe, das ich mit dem Spielen erreichen muss. Ich muss dieses Spiel gewinnen oder das Ende davon erreichen oder so etwas wie das. Ja. Es ist eines von diesen Dingen, wo du gesagt hast, dass du viele Videos und Sachen schaust. Ist das so, wie du dich vorbereitest?
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Verständest du dich mit einem Franchise? Und hörst du einige der Voice-Aktivitäten in den vergangenen Spielen und sagst, okay, wir haben diesen Vibe. Or do you just say, this is me, this is what I'm going to do and kind of hope that it fits in? Is this where a director comes in with you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
I think it's crazy when you see these franchises that are so global in a sense. Everybody knows Monster Hunter. Whether you've played them or not, you've heard of them, you've heard your friends talking about them. I think sometimes people lose sight of the fact that there are millions and millions of people that are playing these games and loving it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Und nicht nur spielen sie es, sondern sie spielen es mit ihren Freunden, weißt du, also ist es so, dass du jetzt auch diese Interaktion da hast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Und, weißt du, besonders mit Gaming, einige dieser Franchise sind ikonisch, weißt du, ich meine, Monster Hunter ist einer davon, aber du hörst Leute über Halo sprechen, weißt du, Call of Duty, du hast Erfahrung beim Voice Acting für Call of Duty und es ist so, dass diese Dinge global sind. Like my parents who were in their 70s know what Call of Duty is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
They've never played one, but it's like they know of it. So that's incredible.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Oh, the motion capture stuff?
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
So you mentioned that when you audition for these and you get the role that you don't know what you're auditioning for necessarily, right? Like, you know, for this, for instance, you know, like, hey, I'm doing an audition and I'm sure that they request either a specific line or, you know, a series of lines or something like that. But
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Okay, die Stimme des Publikums.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Wenn sie sagen, hey, wir wollen dich für das, hier ist das Projekt. Und dann sagst du, okay, wir wollen, dass du Olivia spielst. Sie ist ein super starker Frauencharakter. Sie ist in Monster Hunter. Du wirst diese fantastischen Wesen kämpfen und all das. Wie viel Informationen geben sie dir? Geben sie dir eine Sprechstelle und sagen, das sind alle die Charakteristiken von Olivia? Ja.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Also, Alison, wir müssen einfach anfangen, weil du eine großartige Karriere gehabt hast. Es ist lustig, weil ich wusste, wer du bist, bevor wir überhaupt darüber gesprochen haben, dich auf dem Podcast zu haben. Und das ist sehr wahr. Und ich sage das nicht nur, weil du auf dem Show bist, aber ich habe einige deiner Arbeiten in der Vergangenheit gesehen.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
sagen sie, so lange du griffig und hart bist, roll mit dir? Oder wie bewegen sie dich in die richtige Richtung auf so etwas?
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Ja, das ist ein interessanter Punkt, weil sie versuchen, sie sehen sie als völlig separat, wie der japanische und der englische Stärker. Sie versuchen zu sagen, hey, wir haben einige der gleichen Töne, sodass es keine große Unterschiede gibt in der Inflexion und der Töne dieses Charakters. Wir mindern uns nicht, dass du die englische Stärkerin für das bist.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
That's so neat. I never thought about that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
This is like a severance situation going on here. You've got two people that are actually voice acting the same roles, but they don't know that the other person's been voice acting their role.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Wow. So, yeah. That's a really cool thought. Yeah. Ich weiß.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Ja.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Ich habe deine Social Media und solche Dinge gesehen. Es ist einfach toll zu sehen, den Weg, den die Leute haben und den Weg, den sie gehen und so weiter. Und der Fakt, dass es sich so viel mit dem Hobby des Gamers verbindet, ist einfach eine wirklich tolle Sache zu sehen. So one of the things that I wanted to kind of start off on is that you've done what a lot of people dream about.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
So, do you ever, like you mentioned that you go to the studio sometimes and you get to work with other people. Is there ever an instance where you are recording like in the same, I'll just say booth with somebody so that you, I mean, you know, knowing a little bit about audio, like that's hard to manage, like two microphones in one area with people yelling and shouting and things like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
But it's like, do you ever get that opportunity to say like, We get to act this out and do this together.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
That's got to add to the, I get to go to work.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
You can just say, I would like to order this and they'll make it for you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
I say all this, but I work at a place that's really, really cool like that. I mean, you hear about Google Headquarters having full-time masseuses and game rooms and nap rooms and stuff like that. And it's like, I get free lunch every day, completely stocked pantries, a refrigerator full of drinks. That's like my house. Yeah. So I guess I can't be too jealous.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Oh, Katzen sind die besten Masseuses je. Oh ja, die Biscuits on the lap is great. I have to kick my cat out because they will insist on being in my lap during recording. Cats are the best. Yeah, unless you're allergic. I have had this fight with many of my friends because they're allergic to cats and they're like, they're little demons. And I'm like,
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
And not only have you done it, but you've actually made quite a name for yourself, like as a voice actor. And you got to be in Monster Hunter Wilds, which is crazy. So my first question to you is, what was your excitement level like when you got that call that said, hey, we want you to voice Olivia in Monster Hunter Wilds?
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
I have not had to kill a fly in years because if one somehow makes it inside, this cat is like, oh no, you're mine. It's yeah, it's impressive. So we got sidetracked on cats. I don't know. I mean, I'm fine having a cat podcast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Ist weißer Schokolade sogar Schokolade? Nein, es ist nicht. Ich meine, ich schalte nicht weißer Schokolade ab, aber es ist nicht. Es ist die weit niedrigere Schokolade.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
No, because I want the good chocolate ones, John. I want the chocolate peanut butter eggs.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Und dann haben die Leute angefangen, Dinge in Joghurt zu öffnen, um weißes Schokolade zu mimikieren, weil sie sagten, dass die Leute die Unterschiede nicht erkennen können. Es ist einfach nur eine scharfe Fläche, Mann. Ich will nur Schokolade. Jetzt werde ich nicht mehr ablein, darüber nachzudenken.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Ich habe das tatsächlich von einer anderen Person gehört, die wirklich schlechte Lebensmittel hat, John. Also vielleicht ist es so, dass wir hier mit unseren Katzen und unserem Schokolade.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
At least Allison and I, we know. So we're running a little low on time, Allison, and obviously we want to respect your schedule as well. But one of the things, and this is, I love this because as a dad, as a person with a full-time job and a hobby that takes up a lot of time, And I know that you have a lot of hobbies and we need these kind of creative outlets, right? Like we work really hard.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
We're busy. Life can get chaotic. Being a parent is hard enough. And so you need these things to do to kind of just be yourself sometimes and say, this is how I be creative and this is how I relax and things like that. But with with, you know, being a mom. Having a very successful career in voice acting, being a musician, a singer, you know, all these things, like, how do you balance that?
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
I have been to Costa Rica. I haven't been to any of the other ones, but I have been to Costa Rica. Guanacaste, so the west coast. That's where my wife and I actually got married. So we got married on the beach in Costa Rica. Oh my gosh. It was incredible. I would love to go back for sure.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
I've seen the photos John has and it looks really awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
So it's interesting that you talk about the experiences because, you know, not to get too deep, but as we get older, like you said, you know, we kind of go through this period in life where we want to see success, right? Like you said, you know, you wanted to win a Grammy and an Emmy and these sorts of things. And that's great and it drives us for a long time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
But then as we get a little bit older, we kind of start to go like... These goals have changed. My goal is the experiences in life. Because like you said, you do start to realize that life is finite. And you only have a certain amount of time. And if you don't take the time to do these experiences, then you won't have the memories from those.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
And then, you know, you only get the one chance at life. And it's funny, because it reminds me of my mom, who was in her 70s, that got her first tattoo like a year ago. She just went and spent five months... She just went and spent five months in Alaska by herself, five months in Alaska. She's soon to book a skydiving trip. I must meet this woman. Skydiving?
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Oh my gosh, I think she and my mom would get along. Yeah, she's awesome. I mean, but it's neat to see because she is in that phase where she is going, look, I have a limited amount of time and there's these things that I want to do in life and I'm going to do them. One life. I love it. Yeah. I mean, you know. As far as we know. People, yeah. Well, right, right. People take it for life for sure.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
All right. So one more question for you, Alison, because you have such a varied career and you kind of have had this opportunity to do so much. Do you have a preference when it comes to doing like anime and animated series or video games? I would think it's probably not commercials, but if it is like I would be curious as to why.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
I mean, but sometimes. Medical narration. So, do you have a preference? Is there something that kind of resonates with you more than the others?
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, it's one of those things you always try to envision, like, you know, what it's like for somebody to kind of get that call to say, hey, here is something awesome that we want you to be a part of.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Es ist, Halloween ist einer meiner Lieblingsholidays, wie, du weißt, cosplayen in einem Konzert, weil diese Fähigkeit, einfach jemand anderes zu sein, für ein bisschen, und dann hast du die Entschuldigung, einfach zu sein, du weißt, ein bisschen draußen zu sein, ein bisschen verrückt zu sein, oder, du weißt, wie die Aktivität ist, ist ehrlich gesagt so viel Spaß, und es ist wie,
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Ja, ich verstehe das. Ja. All right. Well, listen, Allison, we want to thank you so much for hopping on with us. This has really been awesome to have you on.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
It really is. We always say like somebody's time is truly the greatest gift that they can give you. And so thank you so much from us and from all of our listeners for hopping on the podcast with us and just hanging out. Kind of giving us some insight.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
And that kind of initial reaction is always a fun thing, because like, you know, I know a lot of people, it would come with like a lot of anxiety, like there's some excitement, but then it's like, oh my goodness, like I really got to step up for this, you know, that kind of thing where, you know, I think there's like a wide mix of emotions there. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
We'll leave links too as well in the episode description for people also.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Ja, es ist lustig, andere Leute zu treffen, die großartig sind. Sie haben diese Leidenschaft und diese Leidenschaft für das Leben. Es ist nicht etwas, was man immer sieht. Wenn man es sieht, ist es cool, zu chatten und ein bisschen zu hangen.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Awesome. Well, Alison, thank you so much for coming on the show with us. It's really been a pleasure to chat with you. You're awesome. Love all the stuff that you do. Love your energy, your happiness. It really does come through. It's awesome to see. All right, everybody, listen, make sure you check out Alison's social media. Go follow her.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Cheer her on as she continues this awesome path that she's on and the fun that she's having and all that. That's going to do it for this episode. Until next time, happy gaming. Bye.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Ja, das kann ich mir vorstellen. Also, hör mal, wir, wir, wir, wir, wir, wir, wir, wir, wir, wir, wir, wir, wir, wir, wir. Alright, so we're going to fire off some questions to you. And the goal is to answer these as simply as possible. We don't want to get in the weeds on these. So even if it's a one-word answer, it's supposed to just be quick.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Okay, so I'll start off. John and I will take turns on these here. So, alright, here we go. What's harder? Yelling and grunting in an epic combat scene or having a believable laugh on command?
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Hallo, liebe Spielerinnen und Spieler und willkommen zum Video-Gamer-Podcast. Monster Hunter Wilds ist eine fantastische Veröffentlichung für die geliebte Franchise. Und das Einzige, was die Qualität ihres Kampfes und der Welt betrifft, sind die dedizierten Männer und Frauen, die eine Rolle in ihrer Verarbeitung gespielt haben.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Like somebody that just told a really awkward joke in a room and people are like, I think I'm supposed to laugh at this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
I feel like the other moms at school would think I was a little weird, though. Yeah, libraries would be awkward. Yeah, that's true, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Oh, God.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Which one would you want to be on? Let's alter it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
That would be so much fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
It looks incredible, but I have a fear of heights and they're always making people bungee jump or do something crazy where I just be like, yeah, I'm real good up until that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
I'm not scared of anything else. For the record, it's my only fear.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Heute haben wir einen sehr besonderen Gast, dessen Stimme die Video-Games- und Animationsserien über die Jahre gegrüßt hat. Sie ist Stimme-Aktorin, Komedianin, Musikerin, Sängerin und Schriftstellerin und sie ist verdammt gut bei allen von ihnen. Wir werden zurückkommen, wie großartig sie ist in einem Minuten, aber zuerst sind einige Vorstellungen in Ordnung.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Ich bin ein Pürist. Maplesirup. Ich mag alle anderen Sachen. Es ist kein Schlamm gegen Fruchtzucker und Whipped Cream und all das. Aber eine gute Maplesirup auf einem Pancake ist einfach der Peak für mich.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Cool fashion.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Which is funny that there's such a popular thing now too.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Ja, ja, sie wollten nicht, dass die Leute einen guten Zeitraum hatten. Das ist verrückt.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
But you run out of ammo eventually. I do run out of ammo eventually. Olivia's got that close quarters combat going.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
You got to pick one. Who are you going with?
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Alright, there you go. See? It's a good choice. I've always said a katana is the best weapon in a zombie apocalypse. I do.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Because we won't tell. No, my friend Brandy made this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Ich bin euer Host Josh und mit mir zu sein, seine Talente sind das Walken, Blinken und Atmen.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Wow.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Das ist großartig. Das ist unglaublich. Das wird ein Hit bei Cons.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Bis zum nächsten Mal. Tschüss. Ja, am 5. Juni. Am 4., 5. und 6. Also, das ist es. Und es ist ein riesiger Konzert.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
It really took a lot for me to throw that last line in there, John.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
John's got the filter on maximum strength right now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
This is the best you get. Ich bin mit dir, Alison. Ich bin ein Extrovert bis zum Kern. Und zu sein, um viele Leute zu sein, energisiert mich super. Ich weiß definitiv, dass meine Beine mich am Ende des Tages töten, weil wir 20.000 Schritte gegangen sind und so. Aber ich liebe es, ein paar Leute zu sein, die alle einen guten Zeitraum haben. Ja, ich genieße sie wirklich.
Video Gamers Podcast
Voicing Legends: Alicyn Packard on Acting, Animation & Monster Hunter Wilds - Gaming Podcast
Okay, let's fire another question off at you here. Have you ever accidentally talked in a character's voice during normal life? Please say yes. Please, please, please say yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And they're just like... It's one of those things where you look back over the entire game, and then you just go... this all makes so much sense. And I had no idea this entire time. I don't know that any game has pulled the wool over your eyes like Bioshock did.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And that like that feeling of the reveal is, The feeling of looking back at everything that took place in that game and realizing that you've kind of been played the entire time Yeah, there's nothing like it and it's funny because you can tell people I mean, you know, there's spoilers all over the place for Bioshock now I mean this game's been out forever.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
So it's you know, if you haven't heard what the spoiler is Just go dark and play Bioshock right away.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
You can't get that again. No. You know, and I miss that, man, because, yeah, I mean, I think other games have tried and there's definitely the end of Red Dead 2, for instance.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
You know, there's that massive payoff that just, you know, I won't spoil it since it's a more recent game, but there are a few games like that, but there's nothing like that experience of playing Bioshock for the first time, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
My family's sick, man, so maybe it's just a cold or something. I don't know, man. I just got a weird little feeling in my head or something. Oh, man. Right. I am pumped for this episode. Like we said, we're going to be covering games that it's just, dude, if only I could experience this game for the first time all over again. Yes. I do want to start off by saying, listen.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. There's a rare unicorn in the gaming world and it's finding that game that is so special, so good, so memorable that you never forget the first time playing it. Sometimes we wish we could just wipe our memory and experience it again for the first time. On today's episode, that's exactly what we're going to talk about.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And the point of this episode is if you have not played these games, go go now. Oh, play these games, man. There's a reason. There is a reason we're talking about them. There is a reason that they stick with people. I mean, do yourself a favor and experience these for the first time, because I'm jealous.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Like legitimately, if somebody's like I'm playing Bioshock for the first time, like my initial response is like, oh, man, I wish I.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Awesome. Ryan, I can't wait to hear your next one, but we're going to take a short break and then you're going to hit us with another one, buddy. All right, we're back, Ryan. Hit me. I want to I want to see if I know this game. I'm really curious if we have a game that like neither of us have played, because at that point I might I might know what I'm doing this weekend.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I'm saying that if I name a game that you haven't played... Oh, okay, gotcha. I'm like, how are you replaying games? If neither of us have played it, what are we doing here? You're like, that intro really messed you up, Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Oh, okay. I know Magneto when I hear Magneto. No, I'm just kidding. Bro.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I've never played this game. Yes. And, Ryan, it's pretty old. I'm probably not ever going to play this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Until they do a remake. But they're remaking, what is it, 3? Isn't that the new Snake Eater Delta's technically Metal Gear Solid 3?
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
We are not covering the most epic games out there. Everybody wishes they could play Witcher 3 again for the first time. Everybody wishes, man, if I could just play Elden Ring and have that sense of discovery just for the first time. Or, you know, Cyberpunk, God of War. Red Dead, all those. Exactly. We are intentionally not...
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, bring that stuff back, Debs. We like that. As gamers, we like that stuff, man. Okay, so I got a game. People that have been listening to this podcast for a while have heard me talk about this is a game that is, you know, a lot of people will say, hey, man, I really wish I could experience this game for the first time. So there is something there, you know, not just my opinion on this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Ryan, you have played this game. I don't think it went over quite as much for you because I forced you to play this game. And I think you enjoyed it, but I don't know that you got like engrossed in this game like a lot of people do. But that is Subnautica. Oh, yeah. The thing with Subnautica for me is I did not think that I enjoyed survival crafting type games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I always thought they seemed like work. They're repetitive. Like, what's the point of these things? You're just trying to survive and, you know, whatever. And then I played Subnautica. And I was absolutely enamored of this ocean planet where all you are doing is going under the surface of the ocean on this planet. And you are exploring these fantastic biomes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
You are coming across the Leviathan Reapers and the sounds and how crazy that was. There's a crashed ship off in the distance. And then you realize like... you know, a little later on in the game, you get the capability to like go explore that ship. And then you're like, dude, I'm inside this spaceship now. Like, this is crazy. I thought this was just water, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And then it's like, there's times when you get to go on land and then you're like, I thought this was just water.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And then the, the thing with subnautica that really makes it that I wish I could play this again for the first time is this game does such a masterful job of slowly telling you a story of giving you little tidbits of information about something else that's going on on this planet. And the way that they feed that to you is so subtle and it's through exploration and discovery that,
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
talking about like these these just once in a lifetime games we're trying to go a little bit deeper we're trying to kind of give you guys some games that maybe you haven't played yet i think it's very likely that people have heard of these or at least the games on my list but it's crazy to me because we see people in our in our community all the time that's like dude i've never played that and it's like oh my gosh what do you mean you haven't played this game like oh go now go now um but before we get into that ryan
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
It's masterful, dude. It is masterful. Games nowadays just beat you over the head. Dragon Age Fail Guard, dude. I'm not an idiot. I don't need you to beat me over the head with this story and tell me how I'm supposed to feel. Let me feel it. Design your game so that I feel it by naturally playing, not smacking me in the face with it, being like, you should feel angry right now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And then I'm like, this is stupid. I do feel angry. I feel I'm angry at the game because it's dumb, you know, but there is something magical about Subnautica. I don't want to spoil the ending on this game because I really, really encourage people to play this game because for a large majority of people, Ryan, maybe not you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
But it's one of those magical experiences where you can absolutely lose yourself in this. The survival aspects are great. The exploration aspects are second to none. The progression in Subnautica is absolutely top-notch. You get all kinds of tech, vehicles. This game goes way... uh, pun intended deeper than you actually expect it to go.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Just when you think you've kind of hit the, Oh, this is really cool. I finally made it. You ain't, you ain't made it, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And, and that, that kind of like kick to your brain over and over again is something that you can't recapture. And I have actually being a guy that never plays games more than once, I have actually gone back to subnautica and I got about, uh, halfway through before I kind of went, yeah, I know what happens. I just kind of wanted to try to experience it again.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And you can't like, it's still a good game. Don't get me wrong, but you, you lose that feeling the second time around. And I think that's why it kind of ranks up there for a lot of people is one of those games where it's like, dude, Just play this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
This is the tough part about this podcast that people don't realize.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
All right. What you got, Ryan? I'd spend the whole episode on Subnautica, so I am intentionally trying to move.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Oh, dude, that game... I know that that's up there for so many people. This is one of those games where not only it's not just the twist, but it's the game itself too. But the twist at the end is just unbelievable.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. There's that might be an episode for another day where it's like games you think about while you're at work. Yeah. Right. You know, because there's there's definitely those where I'm like, dude, I don't want to be here. I need to go play this game. My brain is my body may be here, but my brain is in this game or, you know, just that's all it wants to do.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And it's funny because, I mean, I definitely think these would qualify. But I think that's another another kind of category of games. It's like you just get obsessed with.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And not only that, but we have four new, awesome, amazing supporters of the show to thank. So we want to thank, man, this dude, everybody knows this guy, Kakarot.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
So. Um, Yeah, famously, I'm going to confess and people are going to be like, what? We hate you, Josh. I played about six hours of the last, maybe even four hours of The Last of Us. And then I just put it down. And for some reason, I never picked it back up.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I'm confessing it publicly right now. I'm sorry, people. I fully am aware that I missed out on something great. I'm a big dummy. We forgive you. All right, good. OK, another game for me that is really at the top of my list. And these are games that it's like I I will actively push these games on people like Subnautica is one that I push on people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And this is another one that I push on people because there is no experience in gaming like this game. And that is a game that is called Outer Wilds. Not to be confused with Outer Worlds, which is the kind of spiritual successor to... It's not Fallout, right? Wasn't that the makers of Fallout that kind of split off and made Outer Wilds? I'm pretty sure it is, so...
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Outer Wilds is its own game. And the premise of Outer Wilds is that you are this alien guy who wakes up on a planet. You see something up in the sky and people tell you, hey, you have to take this ship and go explore. And then as you're exploring and trying to learn how to fly the ship, your star supernovas and it wipes out your galaxy and boom, you're dead.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And then you all of a sudden wake up again, just like you did the very first time you load into this game and you snap awake and it is a time loop. And there is, I'm telling you, man, there's no gaming experience that exists that is quite the same as Outer Wilds. I mean, between the, and yes, it has similarities to other games, like the exploration in this game is second to none.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
The sense of discovery is second to none. but it somehow puts it together in this perfect package of mystery, suspense, aha moments, a little bit of wandering aimlessly because you're really not sure 100% what the heck is going on until you get a clue and then you beeline it. But there is always the underlying fear or dread or
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Yes. Wesley Trin, Krusty the Viking, who all signed up for rare status to support the show forever. Thank you so much for doing that. And then we have a fine, fine supporter who signed up for epic status by the name of Filipino chaos who joined the server. It's been awesome. I've been playing games with people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
just some feeling that this game gives you where you finally get this thread and you're pulling this thread. And then it's like, you know, the supernova is coming and you know, and you just start going like, I'm finally unraveling this mystery. No, give me two more minutes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And then it's like, nope. You hear the music start that says, Hey, the star is exploding. And you just, it just makes you feel something, man. And I can't describe it to people. People that have played this game all go like, dude, yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. People that haven't go, you just sound like an idiot to me, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
But I'm telling you, there is something absolutely magical and special about Outer Wilds. Play this game. Now, the one complaint about Outer Wilds is flying that stupid rickety spaceship because it sucks. Now, just like anything else, I promise you will actually get used to it and you will start to become a lot better of a pilot and it will stop being a headache. So get through that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
But dude, Outer Wilds is one of those games that every gamer should experience. Nice.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Quick, I mean, I will absolutely force you to play this game at some point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
You know, when we get back to that. I can tell you that right now. It's very high on my list. They have a DLC that is very, very good. It's not quite the same magic as the original, but if you play the original and you're like, dude, I'm really hungry for some more of this. Like, this is just really jiving with my brain. The DLC, like the expansion...
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I wasn't going to bring it up because it's not in my top five. And I know people are probably sick of me bringing up EverQuest because it's an older game that a lot of people haven't played or really even know anything about. But in parentheses, I legit put, it's really just your first MMO. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And I know for World of Warcraft, that was it for millions of people. And the magic... when you get into your first MMO and realize the scope and the scale and the number of players and the adventure that is ahead of you cannot be recreated. And it's funny because, I mean, we've played a lot of other MMOs and we've dove into them and tried them and nothing compares.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Like they might be fun games and they might be, you know, fully fledged and the quests are fun and whatever, but it's like that magic is gone.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
yeah after the first experience with with an mmo and it doesn't matter i mean i played some good mmos afterwards and i'm like dude this is a lot of fun like i'm getting into this game but the magic is just not there man it is not the same i even hopped back in when they came back out with vanilla wow and uh i remember i had a laptop and i'm sitting out back and it's beautiful out in phoenix arizona and and i'm on the couch and football's on and i'm playing wow and
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I don't know why it can't get captured again. I mean, I've tried a dozen MMOs and again... There's going to be a new thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
It will absolutely happen. And that's kind of the fun is to think like, man, what's it going to be? Yeah. So a game for me that is absolutely magical the first time you play it. And I'm going to preface this with saying you need to experience this game with at least one other friend. And it's even better with like multiple friends, in my opinion. It is not the same game if you're playing it solo.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Unless you are just the kind of person that can really get enamored of a grind, a slow progression, because this game has it in spades. But with Friends, the experience in this game is vastly different. And I think it really legitimately falls into that kind of magical category where you go, I wish I could do this again for the first time. And that is Valheim.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Did you even dabble in it? You've never... Okay, because... No. All right. I remember Valheim taking over the world. And I remember with Paul and some other friends saying, hey, there's this game Valheim come out. We really should play this. Everybody's raving about it. I mean, there's got to be something there. Right. And so we hopped in and I think we started off with like three of us.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
It might have been like me, Paul, and I think maybe Todd and maybe somebody else. Yeah. But Valheim is an experience kind of like no other, because it has the scale of like an MMO, which you don't realize at first. Like you think, Hey, cool. I'm in this really beautiful area. It's kind of safe. It's serene. Like you almost feel like you're on vacation in a way.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And then as you start to kind of do your crafting and you're exploring and your discovery, you start to kind of go into like another biome. And yeah, I guess the best way to describe it is Valheim is like the perfect game that is like almost like based or formatted like an MMO without any quests whatsoever, like in scale and the fun with your friends.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
But it, it just, it just shocks you in how much there actually is in this game. Like I remember for the first time, eventually crafting a raft and, Right. And it was like, dude, we finally figured out how to craft a raft and we put in at some water and you can't see very far.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And I remember Todd Knight legitimately spending like 50 minutes trying to sail this little raft going like, what are we going to find? And, you know, we found nothing. Nothing because it's huge. And we're just lost in the ocean in this game. And then thankfully we're like, dude, we're going to lose everything because this is one of those games where if you die, all your gear is on your corpse.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
So there's that little bit of like, you know, fear in the exploration and stuff too. The first time you chop down a tree in Valheim and it hits one of your buddies and kills them, you will absolutely lose your mind.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
This is the stuff where it's like this sense of discovery, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
We found a new desert biome after sailing across an ocean and we're like, oh my goodness, what's this? This is brand new. Paul hops out the boat. You know, he's going to run around and look around and a freaking mosquito, a mosquito is just buzzing by and Paul runs up and hits the mosquito because you get anything you collect.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
It unlocks recipes, which I think is an absolute masterful way to do progression in a game. Paul's thinking, oh, I'll kill this mosquito. We'll get a new recipe or something. This mosquito destroys Paul in like in a half a second. And then we all lose our minds and we're like, run!
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
We spent an hour sailing. Like you have to corpse run. Like it's just one of those things, man, where... The magic of Valheim is hard to capture and the scale and the beauty of this game. And it's weird because this game's kind of ugly in one sense, but at the same time, it's one of the most atmospherically beautiful games that I think I have played in a long time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And you kind of have to just experience it to see the weather, the wind, the atmosphere, the things you find, the things you come across, the different biomes. Just, you know, there's boss fights in this game that you realize, like, whoa, like, really? Like, this is in there, too? It's depressing at times. It's hopeful at times. Like, I don't know, man. This game really has it all. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
and to prove the point on this, we went back and we played Valheim again. Like we said, there was an expansion or they finally, because it was early access for, it might even still be early access. Maybe it's officially out now, but yeah, They had this big expansion, the Mistlands, and we're like, dude, let's do it. And we got back in and it just, it just, it wasn't the same, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And we still had multiple people, but it was like, we knew what to do. We knew what recipes, we knew that across the ocean was something. And like, we knew, hey man, don't mess with them mosquitoes, man, you know? And so those kind of first-time experiences just weren't there. And it's funny because we fizzled out very quickly.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
We progressed very quickly because we knew what the heck we were doing. But at the same time, we just hit this wall where we went, dude, the magic's not there this time around. Not there the same, yeah. Kind of makes me sad, but at the same time, it's like, I'm really glad we had that initial experience.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I can say that a roast pig I'm from Louisiana and so they would spit a pig and roast it. And that's some of the best meat, dude. It's incredible. So man. All right. So listen, thank you. Thank you for taking the time and the effort to support the show. We would not be here without the support of people. If you want to support the show, you can do that over at multiplayer squad.com.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. All right, Ryan. I think you got one more, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Oh, gosh, man. I knew this. I told myself, I said, if we get through this episode and Ryan doesn't mention Diablo, something's wrong, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Wind Force, for people who don't know, was like the most epic bow that you could try to get in this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I remember grinding for Wind Force, dude. I remember grinding for it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And then they kind of, it's one of those rare examples where the sequel was just so perfect. It was like they took everything they learned from the first one and they didn't mess up anything on the second one. And it just was like, they've created the perfect game. Like this game is so good. Like there's so hard to find faults with it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Um, and we'll give a little reminder at the end of the show too. So, um, Ryan, I am absolutely pumped for this episode. Sometimes a game can not only be great, but it's like it just worms its way into your brain. It's one of those games you think about after you've played it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I think they've been chasing that ever since and they haven't quite nailed it. But yeah, Diablo 2 is just one of those absolutely legendary games. I don't know. Like, do you think if somebody had never played Diablo 2 that they could play it today and feel that same experience? Or do you think it's a little too dated to actually kind of capture some of that magic?
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, no, I'm with you, dude. Diablo two is one of those, you know, games of all time kind of games. Yeah. So, all right. Well, the last one for me, a lot of people haven't heard of this. This is a little bit of an older game. When this game came out, There's actually I'm going to I'm going to lump this together because there is a first and a second.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And I think that the second is better than the first. But to kind of combine together, it's the whole experience. But that is Knights of the Old Republic.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
You know, famously just called KOTOR. Knights of the Old Republic was a Star Wars RPG that was so unbelievably good at the time. And I don't think anybody expected it. And then when it came out, it really just blew up the world because somebody finally made a Star Wars RPG that had absolutely memorable characters. It got you so invested in their stories. It had humor.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
It had the combat that people wanted in a game. It had fantastic moments with, you know, it didn't pull punches and things like that. So some of the interactions between the characters and the choices that you had to make that really mattered was all there. This was like this was kind of the game that set the bar for that stuff, in my opinion.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And then not only on top of all that, but it has one of the best twists in a video game. Like we talk about Bioshock and it's like, I don't, again, don't want to spoil it. You know, if you know, and if you don't know, go find out because it's worth it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
But, you know, KOTOR 1 and 2 were just the absolute epitome of what people were hoping for when it came to, number one, the franchise, because they captured Star Wars very, very well. And then number two, it was just an absolutely epic franchise. role-playing game, man. Yeah. You know, and again, the characters were, you got so invested in those, you cared about them.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
It had the humor, you know, and it would catch you off guard with that. Like sometimes, and then you would laugh and then you're crying all of a sudden. And it's like, you're doing all this stuff and you're on this grand epic adventure. And then right at the end of the game, it hits you with the huge twist and the reveal. And you just kind of like, it's kind of like Bioshock the whole time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
You kind of chew on it, you stew over it, you obsess over it maybe, and it just leaves that feeling that's hard to describe to people. Maybe it's like a crazy twist. Maybe it's like a culmination of a great story or an absolutely epic final boss fight.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And then it just completely scrambles your brain and it just makes you go like, oh my goodness, dude. That's one of those experiences that you can't replicate. And you can go back and play it for the gameplay and the story and try to get more detail, but you will never get that same magic from KOTOR as you did the first time playing it. And there's very few RPGs like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Even the greats like Baldur's Gate 3, like if you take a modern current RPG, I mean, Baldur's Gate 3 is an absolutely incredible video game, but it still didn't give me that same feeling. I can admit Baldur's Gate 3 is a way better game, but that magic experience that we're talking about, that first time playthrough is... It doesn't have it like KOTOR did, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And so there was just something there that made that game just hit in a way that very few games can, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I'm a huge Star Wars fan. It's had its ups and downs recently, you know, but I will eternally be hopeful that Star Wars just is always that magic experience. What?
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I still have hope, Ryan. It's kind of like I have hope for Battlefield still.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. Listen, if you haven't played these games, play them. If you have a game that gave you that magic feeling, this feeling that we're talking about, that you're like, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Tell us. We want to know. This is the fun of being gamers. This is the fun of this podcast is we want to know what resonates with you. What did we miss? What glaring error did we not talk about? And you're just like, Josh, Ryan, what the heck, man? How could you not mention this game? Come tell us about it. We would absolutely love to talk to you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
It's just like there's games that we desperately wish that we could play again for the first time to get that sense of wonder, that reveal on the twist, that sense of discovery, whatever the magic formula is. We're going to break down our list of games. And I think we each have a list of five games that we wish we could play again for the first time. But we have something special.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And not only us, but about 800 plus other gamers that all have the same passion that you have and we have are right there just waiting to talk about this stuff. Our community on our Discord server is second to none. The link is in the episode description. We drive this home for a reason. Literally today, a listener joined our Discord.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
and was chatting with people, and he made the comment that he said, man, I've been listening to you guys just chill this Discord server for a while. And I finally joined, and he went, oh my goodness, dude. This is the best community I have seen in gaming. I cannot believe I waited this long. You guys are not lying. You're not overselling it. I've not had gamers to talk to like this in forever.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And dude, that just makes me feel amazing. I literally said that. I was like, dude, this makes me so happy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
So click the link in the episode description. Come join our Discord server. You can lurk. You can just watch and observe. You don't have to believe us and dive in feet first. You can test the waters a little bit. But trust me, it will change your life as a gamer, man. So give it a shot and see what happens. That's it for this episode.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
We will be back on Thursday with another one, but man, this was fun, dude. I love thinking about games like this, a little bit of memory lane, but a little bit of go play this game, you know, at the same time. So we hope you had fun. Listen, if you enjoyed this episode, if you enjoy this podcast and you haven't done it already, please click the follow button, the plus button in your podcast app.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
So you get all our episodes the day that they release. And if you want to be like the four awesome people that signed up to support this show and got a shout out, you can do that over at MultiplayerSquad.com. We could not do this without the support of the listeners. So take a minute to think about doing that and supporting the show. That's it for this episode. Until next time, happy gaming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Before we get into that, we have a new segment. That's called the quick question. And this is a perk that is available to people that sign up in the epic tier. So if you support the show in the epic tier, just like Filipino chaos did, you get to submit a quick question that we will answer on the show at the start of a show as well. So this one comes in from a guy named,
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Games you wish you could experience for the first time all over again. We'll get into those in just a minute, but first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh, and joining me, he's getting a lot older, so a lot of games he forgets he played, so his list is getting longer and longer.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
You know, that we know around our Discord server as the one and only awesome Sith Lord Vader. Yeah. And so actually, I'm sorry, this question actually comes in from hell of it. I got mixed up there. This episode...
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
comes to you because lord vader asked this question and he said hey what's a game that that you guys wish you could play again for the first time so this episode is actually because of that so if you ask a quick question you never know yeah we may like it enough we may not like it enough to where we make a whole episode out of it and not just a question so so make sure you get in there and ask those questions if you sign up
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Absolutely. So and so sorry for the confusion, but this question comes in from hell of it. And the question is, let's say you have access to all technology and no limit to what you can use. You have the chance to create the next groundbreaking, earth shattering gaming device, whether it's a console, a handheld PC, VR. You have access to artificial intelligence, augmented reality, Wi-Fi.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
What would you create to be the next Master Race gaming invention?
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Dude, you – So this is the very first thing my brain went to. Yeah. Like, like absolutely is, was just like, dude, just give me, give me the Oasis, man. You know, but here's the problem. You will ruin the world.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Like, I mean, can you imagine if Skyrim was like your temporary reality? Oh dude. You know? And it's like, so take virtual reality and make it fully immersive. I, I, I don't know that I would be willing to risk it, dude. Like, you know, I mean, you know, we've all lost ourselves to an MMO, you know, or played a game way too much at some point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And if you make it that immersive, I don't know that I would be willing to just put it all on the line. But then there's also that, like, I got to see what this is, man. So it's funny because, you know, with unlimited funds, technology, all that stuff, what I actually came up with was,
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
like contact lenses that somebody could wear that would just be able to give you like the most fully fledged augmented reality. So maybe not take me out of reality completely. And I think I'm living in another world, but to where, uh, you know, you can either put these in, turn them on, whatever, but other people can't see them. They're comfortable.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And then it just turns anything into a game anywhere at any time. You don't need handhelds. You don't need a fancy PC, like all that stuff. It just gets beamed straight into your eyeballs. You know, you're on the train on the way home and dude, I'm just, I'm everything around me just looks like some fantasy world, you know, or I'm playing some first person shooter, you know, or whatever. But,
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I, you know, I, it's funny because I think like, I think we both agree that virtual reality is like the evolution.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Can I bring my wife and kids with me? Cause then we're good, man. I'm like, Hey y'all, y'all, y'all want to go into this?
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I am your host, Josh. And joining me, he's quite possibly the best host on the planet and the perfect combination of talent and looks. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
And you're like, what are they doing? We might have to partner with some like brain control thing or something, you know, to go with that too. So, uh, yeah. So once again, thank you. Hell of it for the quick question. It's awesome to, to kind of talk about these things and see what people come up with, man. And the goal, you know, the goal is ask us whatever you want. The question is up to you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
You know, if you want to know more about us, the show, uh, put us in a, in a weird situation and see how we would respond. Ask us the answer to the trolley question. You know, that's, that's up to you. That's one of the perks for joining the Epic tier, Ryan. Let's get into these lists, buddy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Because I'm excited to talk about these games, man. Why don't you start us off, man? Why don't you go ahead and give us the first game that you wish that you could just wipe your memory completely and just experience again for the first time?
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I think I know what this is already. What is a man? A miserable pile of secrets. I think this is, is this Bioshock? Bro, really?
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
No. Okay, you were the biggest fan of Castlevania. And while I think Castlevania on the old Nintendo was an absolutely awesome game, I'm just not that into Metroidvanias anymore. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
Is it the exploration? Is it the progression? What's the hook? Is it just as a whole? Is it time of life? Because sometimes when we play these games, we remember the time of life that we were in.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I will say I'm not a huge fan of Metroidvanias. I do absolutely love Hollow Knight. I like Metroid. There are some that have really resonated with me. I think the key there is that they are constantly rewarding you throughout the playtime. It's not like everything builds up to this one payoff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I mean, the ending sometimes does, but it's like you said, you get double jump and now you get dash and now you get the ability to climb walls or break floors. And it's like you're kind of just always hit with that reward system that our brains love. Yep, for sure. Now, is this the one where you play through the whole game and then you realize you can flip the castle upside down?
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
All right, Ryan, we're back, baby. I'm excited for this episode. Dude, I feel a little weird, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I'm going to jump in since I kind of spoiled this. I thought that sounded like Andrew Ryan giving a speech about the failure of humanity or something.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
but I am bringing up Bioshock because when Bioshock came out, there was not a game like Bioshock, like Bioshock kind of set a standard for a type of game, um, where it was a mix of really good story, good characters, some mystery, this kind of like dystopian, like utopia almost, um, you know, phenomenal setting. Like nobody had made a game where you're playing like under the ocean, the,
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
The intro for that game was second to none, where you actually wind up going out and then going down to Rapture and all that stuff. I remember encountering big daddies for the first time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I remember for about a half a second being torn on whether I was going to sacrifice the little sister for the atom or if I was going to rescue her. Come here.
Video Gamers Podcast
Memory Wipe Games - Gaming Podcast
I need power. Yeah. And then you play through this whole game, which is a phenomenal game, and then you get to the ending. And the ending in Bioshock is one of the biggest twists in gaming of all time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
No, we don't. And to me, especially like we talked about after playing Expedition 33 and stuff, this was just... It was just fun. Like, I... You know, those games that make you just... Like... And I've said it with other games that we've played where you just go... You know, and you chuckle to yourself or you laugh or you go... Oh, man! You know, and it makes you feel... that you feel the power.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
You feel how strong you are, and that's enjoyable. As simple as the game is, as easy as it is to play, and then there's parts that aren't as easy if you up the difficulty and stuff, but it... It just makes, um, makes you happy. It is, it is, it is fun. It is enjoyable. You rip and tear, blow stuff up and you can run through.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
And it did, it had that arcade feel where just stuff was flying everywhere. Fire was all over the place. You were bashing through everything and it was, you just kept going. And, and, uh, man there to me, I had such an amazing time playing this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
No. But also, John, you love cake. Is more cake always a bad thing? You're like, oh, this is the same cake as before.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
It's still pretty good. It's...
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Like you said, rip and tear. That's what you do, rip and tear.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
It's a silly debate, because it's very, very simple. The Accessories is a whole other ballgame, but controller, PS5 DualSense, it's the best controller ever made. It's a dang good controller, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, just the feel of it. Audibly, you just hear... running, and then you land, and even when you just land by other enemies, if they're just weak enemies or adds, they go flying. They die just from you landing. Yeah, you land down and they go, boom, and you're like, haha, yeah, and then you just Run off to the bigger one, you know, and you're going to go kill the other guy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
But they did such a good job on, and I know we say this a lot, and especially me, but the weight, the weight of your character. It is glorious, dude. Everything you do has weight and purpose and meaning, and it just, your shield bashes, like, your charges, your jumps, like, everything about it, it just, you could feel it all.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
And so there's definitely, like, that was just one of the best feelings for sure.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
The ground will respond, too. You'll get it to where certain areas will just splinter up because you landed heavy. So it's responsive as well, visually.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah, what John was talking about with the grinder gun or whatever. Yeah, it's got little pistons on the side. It's just chambering an old diesel engine. It's like... And you're just chopping up bones and shooting them at the enemies. Just the most ridiculous things that you can come up with in a boardroom meeting. And they're just like, yeah, let's make that. And then they did.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
They actually did it, which was awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I was going to ask you, because I had a friend that had a Dreamcast, but I never played it that often. Is that what that little spot in the middle of the controller was?
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Or blows up. Just blows into a million pieces. One thing I think this game did very well is... As you progress, you go to these areas and you do this activity or this mission stuff. And then, boom, there's like a cylinder there. And you can unlock another gun. You open it. You've got far enough. Your progression is there. And you unlock this gun. You get it. It gives you a prompt.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
It tells you how to use the item and what it's going to entail. And then they throw...
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
enemies at you that you can use that weapon you know accordingly but um that dude that chain shot once i got that i had a hard time breaking off of it even to my detriment like i should use another gun here but i have so much fun with this thing like i don't want to switch i'm like charging charging charging strafing to the side and then trying to line up shots that i could have easily taken a guy out with a different gun but like it was it was just so much fun that uh man i freaking loved it
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, and so let me jump in, Josh, with this, because the Cycler is the accelerator of the Plasma Gun, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
The double barrel, perfect. So I actually have exactly the same experience as you, John. So I played at least one chapter with every difficulty. I played mostly in Nightmare, but I played every difficulty one chapter to see what the difference would be. When I played on the base and then the next level up, all I used was the cycler because of the reasons you described.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
You could run through, it would just pump through everything, and you were virtually invincible. You could run through and destroy everything. And so, I know exactly what you're talking about because I fell into it. Like, I was using different weapons. I'm like, oh, this just works perfectly. I can destroy everything. I can break shields.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I can get everything done that I need to do with this one weapon. And because I'm on this difficulty, I have enough ammo around that I'm not running out and I have to switch to something else. So... I think the difficulty level does lend itself to using different types of guns based on the different enemies you have when you get into that higher level. Because like you said, the Cycler was easy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
You killed everything. You broke everything. But the higher end, dude, it is a whole other ballgame.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Not too often. You can usually find a lot, but you're running out of ammo, you're running out of health, and then also certain enemies, they're just way too tough, and you have to use... something heavier, something like with a little bit more meat to it, like the, you know, uh, the blast cannon or the, the, um, grenade launcher or whatever it may be to really break down that shield.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Cause the plasma, the cycler is not going to do it. It's just like bouncing off of them. And you'll, you'll, you'll be blocking shields and, and rebounding and doing all that stuff all day long. If you don't switch to something that is targeted towards that enemy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Now, I will say 360 was better than the PS3. But after that, the DualSense and the PS5 controller, there's nothing like it. They finally made it a little bit bigger and the thumbsticks a little bit higher up so that it was a little bit better and ergonomic for your grown-up hands, not little teeny baby hands.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I naturally fell into the exact same thing as John, so I think that's probably something that a lot of people did.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Progression, Josh. Progression. I love it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I love it. I was playing controller, so I had to drop down left trigger, and I'd just be running at a guy. And then once I see that little red circle, boom! I'd jump across the whole map and just smash him and blow up everything. I loved it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
And that upped the movement of this game too. If they didn't have the shield movement to where you could charge and go across the map like that, It would have felt like a slog to me. I think it would have felt a lot slower. But having the ability to, you know, because one thing that I think they did that was brilliant in this game is you are incentivized to face first attack everything.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
When you get low on health, you got to go kill stuff because they drop orbs. They drop health. So you go see a pack of, uh, you know, a little low level at level ads, you got to just shield charge over there. Boom. Maybe you see a health pack run through that, you know, and go around. So having that ability, I think helped so much in, in honestly is like a big part of the combat in this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
So, um, I am so happy they did what they did with it. And it, it was nothing but joy every single time I smashed through everybody. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I'm almost dead. Better go find a big mob. Like who does that? Like that's crazy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Hold on. What were you going to say, John?
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, it was definitely, it almost felt like you were scripted to use that character. You run through, you throw a few punches, kill the guy, blah, blah, blah, it's over, you know, you move on. It was fun, it was enjoyable, like, the moment you get in, you're like, oh, look at me go, and you're this big monstrous, like, robot, but...
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
after a few guys then it just kind of all right how do i get past this you know so i i agree it was it was really neat and it's a cool feature and i liked seeing it when i'm actually the doom slayer and i see them fighting off to the side was really cool and it was neat um as far as the surrounding goes but overall it was kind of forgettable as far as like a part of the game
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
You know? Always.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
piece of character design in the game was probably one of my favorite it looked like it was like torn straight off of like a 1990s mega death cover or something yes super cool looking that's yeah that's a good spot um so john you play controller right yes so with the dragon because i have a question for you like when you have to auto lock on
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
For me, it's the pie sign. Uh, I don't know what you guys use. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
to like the turrets to the turrets and stuff like that I ran into a big problem that we can get into if I'm not going to sound like an idiot if you didn't have the same problem so did you have any issue with the dodge like because for me left trigger locked on what was your dodge then
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Okay. Yeah. Okay. So that's what I went. So I, I spent, I'm not kidding guys. I spent like two hours and I was gonna just rage, destroy everything. I was raging.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Why isn't this working? I don't get it. It worked before. Why is it not working now? I spent... I tried every, like, realm of, like, lightly pressing it, and then, like, letting go, and then pressing it again, and doing everything I could to try to... I knew what I had to do. I knew I had to charge up my shot and dodge the green attack, and then so I could shoot the plasma cannon thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I knew what I had to do, and I'm like, why isn't it working? So... I will say, and then I kept looking, I kept pulling up, uh, the diagram. I'm like, it says L dodge L attack mode. Like, why isn't this working? I remember I hit up Greg and he's like, I don't know, maybe do this. And then I was like, you know what? I'm just going to try it on the keyboard. And then I did it on the keyboard.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
First try worked. It got through the whole thing in like 30 seconds. Uh, so I was, I was pretty upset after that day, but, um, But yeah, so I very much love the dragon part, but I also am a little tilted at parts of it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. I thought he looked so cool.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I will say I, I probably agree with John on, um, probably my least favorite thing is the, the art design on a lot of the enemies in the characters. I think the, the main enemy guy, he was just glazed over. He just, they just made them red and they're like, Oh yeah, he's bad. Cause he's red. Look, look at him and he's got horns. Ah, he's going to get you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I don't look out, look out, watch out, you know? So, uh, I, I think there was not much there. It was a little half-baked as far as that goes, and I'm sure we'll hear something about that. But, yeah, that part did not do it for me. I will say what I thoroughly enjoyed is, man, just the base combat.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Just getting in there, and when I got the chain shot, I never just chuckled so much in my life, just to myself, blowing up enemies to my own detriment, even if I was almost going to die, but I had a chance to just blow them up with this giant chain ball thing. I would do it because I just loved it so much.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
So that's probably my most favorite part of the game is just the ability to laugh, enjoy that destruction, man. It was so, so good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
OK. Ryan. So for me, I'm probably, um, man, I, I just, I thoroughly enjoy just the face tank in the, in the crazy, just laugh destruction nature of it. So I'm probably more like a low eight. So like an 8.3.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
It's not, it's not. Okay. It's not like I felt, you know, super good after like, yo man, that was way worth the money. It's like, I don't feel bad, you know, paying that much for it type thing. So yeah. But I mean, shoot, if you can just get game pass.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
We are not sponsored, but we will be.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, how many moderators do we have?
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Oh, for sure. Especially after, I mean, I'm not the, everybody knows I'm not the big turn-based guy. I recognize how amazing Expedition 33 was, but I was like, heck yeah, dude, I am ready to just rip and tear. Let's just melt faces, double bass drum, and just go at it. Like, it was exactly what I needed.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
It's just too enjoyable not to finish because you just want to keep you know, continue on with just this like, oh, this is great. Oh, this is great. And you just keep like loading it up and doing another one. So yeah, this will be one of the few that I'm sure Josh finishes finally.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
So, when I typically, like, my most often play style that I enjoy is I just love to face tank. I love to run in and just be so strong and powerful and just smash everything in front of me. Which is wild because on, like, MMOs, I was always a mage. I was a glass cannon. I love to sit back and just blow everything up. But in these styles of games, like...
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I love the ability to just bash through everything. Again, run through walls. And I love... This game did such a good job of making you feel so strong and powerful... Without making your enemies feel weak. So I was running through there. I may have not... You still feel quick. Because you have your shield bash. You can jump across the map. I used it so much. That was the first thing I upgraded.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
We'll get into the upgrades and stuff like that. But that was first what I went through. And the melee... And I was just messing with everything. I've tried all the different difficulty levels, so I'm kind of knowledgeable on every aspect of how you could play this game as well. To me, this was my style of a Doom game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Doom the Dark Ages is Metal as...Heck – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I probably, if I was to play Eternal and then play this, I think I would like this more just based on what I enjoy. But yeah, man, it's not slow, but you are just an absolute tank.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
All right. That's a great pick. And also tip your hand. Matt is going with the baby faces. Which is rare.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I would absolutely be a heel, man. And this is funny because Ryan's the same way. Super nice guy in real life. But it's like, I just want to play the bad guy, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
All right, great pick. Okay, so we have Ryan with Bowser and then Matt with the Master Chief himself. So this also means that, Ryan, you and I, drafting these heel teams, are going to be fighting for these picks here against each other. Hold on, you haven't given away your pick. Wow, everybody knew? This is not a surprise. Yeah, we do. You were like, but we don't know. Yes, you did.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I tried to tell you it was a nice intro, man. And then there you go, assuming the worst. Yeah, whatever.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Everybody knows. Everybody knows.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Come on. I ain't hiding nothing. All right. So, I mean, I need – so I get back-to-back picks here, but that also means that I have to go a long time before I get another pick. So I need to – this is where strategy comes in for me because there are two very –
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
clear people or characters that I think I need on my team and then I have to kind of go into the I don't think Ryan is gonna think about these other picks you know or at least I hope not I mean completely on point for me Uh, there, there may be some argument here over whether this guy is a heel or a baby face, but if you've played the earlier games, you absolutely know that this guy was a heel.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Some of the best parts of gaming aren't the boss fights or the platinum trophies, but the fun and silly conversations you get to have with your friends about gaming. There's few hobbies that can be so fun and yet so stupid at the same time. Well, today we're leaning into both. But first, some introductions are in order.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Let's just add another beautiful bald bearded man to the mix on this one. I mean, there's two of us already. Why not add a third? I'm picking Kratos for my team. Now, now I know there's people that are going to go, but Josh Kratos is a good guy, right? No, he ain't. Have you seen what Kratos did in God of War 1, 2, and 3? This man has slaughtered towns. He killed his own wife and child. Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Spoiler, by the way. So I'm leaning into the fact that Kratos was a heel in the early games. Now, you know, part of the why I love the God of War 2018 so much is maybe he turns, maybe he's trying to turn over a new leaf. But man, you can't erase your past. He's the heel back then. And I'm leaning into it. So I'm taking Kratos with my first pick. I mean, this guy's strong. He's buff.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Matt might just be being nice to you right now. I got to ingratiate myself somehow. Well, welcome in, everybody. Oh, boy, do we have a very fun episode in store for you. We are joined by our good friend, Matt.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
He doesn't wear a shirt. I mean, he's basically making, he's the perfect wrestler, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
All right. I got Kratos for my first pick. And then... Another, I got a theme going on here, guys. So another character that a lot of people would go, but no, he's a good guy. No, he's not. If you go back to the very first game, this character was a complete jerk. He stole somebody and you spent the whole game trying to climb up them little ladders while he's chucking barrels at you.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I'm taking Donkey Kong for my pick. You talk about strength, agility. I mean, personality. All right, maybe Donkey Kong doesn't have the best personality.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, but I'm taking Donkey Kong as my second pick. He was a heel in the earlier games. Okay. And you know what they say, man? The strength, the strength of a gorilla is second to none, man. He's a gorilla, right? Is he a gorilla? Yeah, I mean, right? I don't know. We'll call him a primate.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
He's a primate of some type. Who am I to label Donkey Kong?
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Those long arms, that reach, I mean, ooh, that reach is something special too, man. And if he can chuck a full barrel, it's nothing to lift somebody up. That's true. All right. So for me, Kratos and Donkey Kong starting off with ending the first round with Kratos, starting round two with Donkey Kong. Matt, we're back to you, buddy. Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
The second you said Katamari, I was like, oh my goodness, dude. Now, I never played this game, but I know this game. And I know that you, yeah, like you said, you wind up just piling together the biggest ball of matter that you have ever seen. I like that pick, man. That's creative. Now, is Katamari a good guy? Is he a baby face?
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I don't know, so you could literally say anything.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
We're excited, too, man. We have chatted through text, Discord, online, social media, Twitch, all that. I mean, many, many a time. But, dude, we tried so hard to get a Helldivers 2 group going, and then we just kept missing each other at the time. But here we are.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Just destroying planets and, you know, that's all, you know. Okay, now, because it's my job to slander picks here, gentlemen. Katamari starts off like really, really small, right? Don't you start off with like just kind of rolling over like dust and leaves and stuff like that? Slow start, sure. Okay, slow start. In the ring with Kratos and Donkey Kong and Bowser.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
They would stomp on it and be done.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
So this is the one you got to get out of there quick before they start really gaining steam on this one.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I like it. That's a creative pick, man. I like going for those off-the-wall ones for sure. All right, Ryan, don't mess this up, buddy, but you get back-to-back picks here, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Okay. Okay, that was one of my picks, Ryan. And I was like, he's not going to think about Goro, man. Yeah, dude. That's a good one.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I was taking Goro literally next, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
where it really matters on the field of battle yes a draft that's right we're doing a draft today this is a fan favorite this is one of our favorites we are going to be drafting Video game characters to put together for a professional wrestling match, Survivor Series style. So we are going to draft four video game characters, a.k.a.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I got a way better pick for mine. It's villains. It's villains. What do you mean? Yeah, he's smart. I mean, he is a genius. But what's he going to do for you, man?
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Oh, so he's going to add up your chances of losing this draft? Yeah. Well, we'll see. I already snuck one of your picks. You didn't take Goro from me, man. I'm a little bitter right now. I didn't think you were going to think of Goro, man. Dang it. All right. Ryan with the manager pick. I will say I did consider, like, I don't want to lose my manager on this one.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
But since you already took your manager, I am now safe. You know, because Matt can't draft the manager that I'm thinking of either. And it is your pick, Matt. But we're going to take a quick break real quick. All right, we are back. It is Matt's pick. We are in the third round of our draft.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I started to put a list together, and I legitimately went, I need an athletic guy. I need the guy that can do the backflip off the top rope. I need the Jimmy Superfly snooker of old where you can leap off the top and cover three-quarters of the ring in one leap kind of thing. And then I just went the heel route. There's not too many on that side.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
So I do love the agility, like quick guy type pick to round out a team too. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
All right. Okay, so. I'm okay. I'm going to breathe a sigh because I got my two picks. I got my two picks.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
wrestlers, and one manager just to put a little extra touch on it. We are going up against Matt, who, you know... I know a thing or two about wrestling.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I needed these. Ryan really scared me with the Goro pick. I still wish I had the Goro pick.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
um i want a guy that is just a seasoned veteran of the ring i mean a guy that knows every wrestling move out there has the power to to pull them off is used to combat let me just let me just throw out a couple moves and see if you guys can can maybe think about who this is how about one of his moves is the the double lariat how about the the spinning pile driver Any of these ringing a bell?
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
The Russian suplex? Oh, my man. I'm going with Zangief from Street Fighter. You talk about a guy that's got all the experience in the world. Yeah, buddy. I'm taking Zangief. Also, epic chest hair, by the way.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Oh, yeah. I'm taking that spinning pile driver, dude. There's no move in Street Fighter that sucked more to have done on you.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
And also, you know, getting into the strategy, I need a guy that can train the rest of my team. You know, he's the veteran, man. He's the guy that's going to teach Kratos how to do a Russian suplex, you know, or a pile driver or a DDT or any of these other moves. Kratos, he's got the strength, but man, he doesn't know these moves.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Donkey Kong might be a little bit harder to actually teach, but I got the veteran on my team here. So I'm happy with that one. Pretty solid.
Video Gamers Podcast
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Well, all right. Good, good. I love this pick. Okay. And then my, my last pick for my wrestlers. And since we got to, you know, I can't just, again, I'm taking strong people here, but I need, I need the one that's going to put the fear into people. The, you know, the one where he climbs into the ring and people go, uh, I'm not, I'm not messing with that, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I don't know. I don't know. I, you know, normally Ryan, we kind of have the upper hand with like the gaming part of something where we're like, dude, we're gamers, man. We got Matt. You're a gamer, buddy.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
You know, height is always an advantage. I'm pretty sure this character is like 12 feet tall. But when I talk about putting the fear into people, what better character than the Lord of Terror themselves? I'm taking Diablo. Oh! To round out my team. Yeah, buddy. I mean, talk about the ultimate heel also.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
El Diablo is his, you know, his wrestling name. But yeah. So he's a luchador.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
So I'm taking the Lord of Terror themselves. Ryan, you really scared me, dude, because I was like, if he takes Diablo after Goro, I'm in trouble, man. I didn't have anything else. I mean, I did have one, but it's not where I wanted to be on that. But I've got my wrestling squad and I'm going to land the manager that I wanted after this as well. So I... And darn happy boys. Diablo's a good pick.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
You don't need to be helping Matt on this one, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
That's a solid pick.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Jeez, Diablo. Don't underestimate the old veteran buddy. Yeah, whatever.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
And you're right, man. You need that person that can just, that has the willpower, man. That has just is no quit. There's no quit in them whatsoever.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
This is an interesting team, Matt. That's what I was saying. I mean, you did promise. You said, I'm going to have some out-of-the-left-field picks on this one. And I also feel bad because it's like, Diablo, go get her. Diablo's going to be like, oh, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Clorox wipes. Oh, my goodness. All right, Ryan. These are your last two picks, buddy. Your team is done after these two. Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
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Yeah, it's really tough, man. I mean, it's one of those things like, you know, consoles have a special place in our hearts, man. There's always something about sitting on a couch playing consoles. But once you go PC, man, it is really hard to go back.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
okay that's a good pick ryan i that is a good pick bro are they bad that are they bad like they kill everyone in the rapture that's only they only kill you if you attack a little sister right yeah they're protectors of the little sisters but anyone would make them a good guy then
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Ryan's like, no, because I don't want to scramble for another pick.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I do view a Big Daddy as not a good guy. I just wanted to see you scramble a little bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Tell the line a little bit. I don't know though.
Video Gamers Podcast
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So a Big Daddy as a heel, it's – yeah. My initial thought is a Big Daddy is like a mean evil thing. I think you could argue that they're protectors and so they're good. But my initial thought is also, yeah, they're probably not nice. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
What I'm hearing is Diablo now has a full dose of Adam and can now inherit some powers. Oh man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Oh man. All right. So big daddy, Ryan, one more buddy.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
It's huge. It's such a fun story. Like when, when the baby face, like I, Back in my day, it was Hulk Hogan. Hulk Hogan was the people. Everybody loved Hulk Hogan. And then all of a sudden, he's the heel. I mean, everybody lost their minds about it. So that's a good pick, man. That is a good pick. That's the round.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
The man himself. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
He's not a bad guy either. You might say, oh, I don't like that guy, but I mean, hey. He'd be a fun dude to hang out with. We've already established that in a few episodes, too. Oh, my goodness, Trevor Phillips.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I can't get the idea of him just running around the ring in dirty drawers, man. You know what I mean? Just hung over, tweaked out of his mind, just saying stuff. Absolutely. All right. That's a good pick, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Trevor Phillips. I freaking love Trevor Phillips, man. All right. Okay. Well, I'm the last pick, boys. This is my manager pick. I was a little worried on this one, but Ryan took Dr. Robotnik. Like you said, you need a manager that's going to... He's smart, right? He can put together the team. He can manage the team. There's some logistics stuff there.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
But you also want a manager that is charismatic, can distract the referee, can talk on your behalf at times. And if he maybe is filthy stinking rich and can bribe the refs or some of these other things, that's good too. But this is one of the most charismatic characters in video gaming. Some would say he's handsome. I'm taking Handsome Jack as my manager. He's filthy stinking rich.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
He's charismatic as anything. What better guy to have as the manager of my heel team to put it all together and tie it all together. I'm taking Handsome Jack. I literally spent the last five minutes trying to look up if he's got any kind of powers or anything. Apparently, if he does, I don't remember what they are. I just know he's really smart.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, he's not getting in the ring. I mean, that's the main goal here is don't put this man in the ring because we all know how that ends.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, exactly. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Top tier training facility, like out of Rocky Ford with Ivan Drago, all that future tech stuff, man. A bunch of steroids.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Oh man. All right, boys. Well, let me run down these teams here. Cause this is, this is the list. So Ryan, you have. Bowser. You have Bowser Goro, Dr. Robotnik as your manager, you have a Big Daddy from Bioshock, and you have John Cena. I went with Matt. I'm just Mass, baby. Oh, my goodness, man. Okay. And then Matt's team is the Master Chief himself. Katamari Damacy. I guess.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Is it just Katamari? I think the name of the character is the Prince. I think you're right, actually. That does ring a bell. So that's the true wild card of this. Like, honestly, when we talk about this, there's going to be people that are like, Katamari is just going to roll everybody into oblivion. So I hope they go with my reasoning that they're going to start off...
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
small um and then you've got raiden from metal gear solid you have ellie as your no quit heart of the people uh part of the team there and then quite possibly the other true wild card of this is trevor phillips as your manager oh my goodness i love it i love it And then my team, I have the one and only Kratos. I have Donkey Kong. I have Zangief.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
diablo and i have handsome jack rounding out my team as my manager that's a meaty team too to be fair it is a meaty i went beef i went beef with just that side of uh yeah yeah so awesome fellas well that is gonna wrap up this draft listen
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I can't I love a controller for some games I'm a huge fan of like Rocket League like some games you absolutely need a controller but if it if it's a shooter mouse and keyboard is second to none man I honestly it's one of the main reasons I prefer like PC gaming over console gaming is I just feel like I've got much more.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
After this episode airs or the, you know, I'm going to give it, I'm going to give it a little bit of time to stew, but then we are going to post a poll on social media. So make sure you look for that because we want to know who you think put together the best team in this draft for wrestling.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I had Balder from God of War because he doesn't feel any pain whatsoever. So he's kind of hard to take down. But then I was like, I can't lean into God of War stuff too much. Ryan stole Goro from me. I did think about Vader as a manager because then he's just sitting over there using the force to do whatever. But that feels like such a cheese pick.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
And then I did have Magneto waiting in the wings in case anybody drafted like, you know, to deal with like Dr. Robotnik, for instance, so that he could just be like, nah, get out of here, man. Those are the only other ones for me. Ryan, who'd you have in reserve?
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Can you imagine Sonic coming off the ropes, man? Yeah, off the ropes.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Matt, what about you?
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
He would have made a good manager pick, actually.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Oh, everybody loves a dog. The inspiration. Yeah. Sitting in the corner. Right. Yeah. It's funny because I started to bring in the impacts. I started to put together a baby face teeth because I was like, everybody's going to expect me to go heal. So I'm going to I'm going to think about some baby face.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
But then I was like, I can't I can't do it. You know. Um, I, one that I did think about because I was with you, Matt, is that agile guy. I was thinking, uh, the Prince of Persia. So like a song from Prince of Persia as from Assassin's Creed was like another one where I was like, you can't catch this guy, man. Yeah. You know?
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Just, yeah. Just eagle diving from the top. Oh, I love it, man. Dude, I love these drafts so much. They're so much fun, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Oh, yeah, absolutely. So, dude, Matt, what a pleasure, man. No, so great. We're going to have to I'll be honest, man. We're going to have to have you on again, dude, because you like I said, we've been we've been chatting for a while, man. We are we're friends, man. You know, we share a lot of the same loves in life and stuff like that, too, man. So huge thank you for joining us on this one.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
This has been awesome. Now, I would be remiss, Matt, because I did shout it out at the top of the show. But you actually have a podcast of your own. So shout that out. Tell people what that is.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
And I got one more thing to say because I do not say this lightly, but I'm one of those people where I would rather play video games than watch video games. But I got to say, buddy, you put on a heck of a stream, dude. Yeah. I do not say this lightly.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Legitimately, this is not stoking your ego or saying thank you for joining us for this episode because honestly, I hope I kick your butt in this draft. But... But for anybody that likes a very good entertaining streamer to just hang out with and watch. And again, the same energy that we bring to this podcast, you bring to your streams. You are there because you have a true love of video games.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
You want people to have an awesome place to hang out with. to talk about what they're passionate about. No toxicity or any of that garbage. You are who you are, and I absolutely love that. And I have actually personally tuned into many of your streams to just have a good time, and I do not do that. So that is a testament to you as an entertainer and a streamer.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
So we will put a link to your podcast and to your Twitch page In the episode description, but take it from me as a lifelong gamer. This guy is a blast to hang out with and watch play games. So definitely make sure you join him for that as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
So because you're making it fun and that's what video games should be. They should be fun. Yeah. Awesome. Well, listen, everybody, make sure you check out again. They'll be in the episode description. But again, if you're a fan of wrestling, check out the Rebooked podcast. If you're a fan of video games, we know you are because you're listening to this podcast.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Count them. Shark, I counted them. You know, a deal's a deal, man. I said I'd read them all and I did. All right, everybody, thank you for joining us. Matt, dude, this was awesome. So amazing to hang out with you, buddy. We hope to do it again soon. That's it for this episode, everybody. Until next time, happy gaming. See ya. Peace.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
No, no. Driving and flying is our two very, very controller oriented tasks for sure, man. So. All right. Well, listen, we we're going to get into this draft, man. I am super excited about this. We do have a little bit of housekeeping. And you know what, man? I mean, this just makes us feel our warm and fuzzy inside.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I am your host, Josh. And joining me, he always kicks out on the count of one. And his special move is getting pinned.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I mean, we have an amazing community of people, you know, people that support the show that sign up to support the show are the ones that keep this going, you know, year after year. So we have a special thank you. Dude, we have four people to thank, plus another for a first-time event ever for us, too. Yeah. So thank you to Grant Bacon for signing up for Rare.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Also, your last name is amazing, dude. I kind of wish my last name was Bacon, dude. I know, right? Dude, I'm hungry now. I know. So thank you, Grant, for signing up for rare status. And then we have not one, not two, but three new epic supporters.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
So thank you, Tubster000, Hypnotic Pyro, and Dalton Newell for signing up for epic status, keeping this podcast going to the world. You all rock. Thank you. And then... We, Ryan, we have our first gifted sub. What? We kind of didn't even know this was a thing. I'll be honest. It's one of those things where we had a very long time listener of the show. Awesome member of the community.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
This guy, I mean, this is the guy that introduced me to Star Citizen where I went, dude, I don't believe that this is a game. And he said, dude, you know what? Let me prove it to you. It's real. It's real. Yeah, so Disratory, we know you're listening, buddy. Disratory is awesome, dude. I mean, just not only because of the gifted sub, but just as an awesome person.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
But Disratory saw somebody in our community today mentioned that they were saving up to help support the show. And he just went, I got you. I got you, buddy. And so he gifted a sub there too, which is incredible. And now that we know that that's a thing, like, I mean, if anybody else out there wants to get to some, you know, multiplayer squad dot com is apparently where you can do this. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
come on man you're gonna do me like that one of these days i'm gonna have a really nice intro for you right and then you're gonna be like well i know i i've got to learn to expect it but i still am always like come on man i thought we were bros we we are that's why i can do this to you man yeah that's true All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
And then I did promise this person that I would read the review because they messaged me and they said, hey, did you get my review? And I said, yeah, dude, we're so far behind on reading. We are legitimately like I think we have like 15 reviews to get to. So but this one. This one comes in from Shark the Fart, which... Good name. Solid. Great name. Love it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
And it is titled, You Guys Are So Good, Please Read. And it says, I literally downloaded Apple Podcasts to leave a review, LOL. And then they put a whole bunch of emojis in there. And it says, I love you guys. Josh, you better read all of these emojis. And I went, deal. Deal. So there are 65 emojis, guys. I read them all. I read them all.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
So Shark the Fart, thank you for your awesome review.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I did read them. That's all you said. See?
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. All right. That's it for housekeeping. Guys, y'all ready to get in the ring?
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I love it. All right. So that people know, we are laying some ground rules. We don't have many, though. That's right. This is a we randomized the order. And so the draft order is going to go Ryan, Matt, and then myself. And this is what we call a snake draft. So because I have to go last in the first round, I get to go first in the in the round after that. So we're going to go back and forth.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
We there's five rounds because we're doing four wrestlers and one manager. And then we will absolutely disparage each other's picks, call them out, try to slander them, whatever. There's a lot of strategy involved there as well. But we will post these lists to social media, and we're going to let the fans decide. We can argue our case. We can argue our picks.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
But ultimately, we're going to put this in the hands of the listeners, and you all will decide who won this draft. All right. You guys ready to get it started? Let's go.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Ryan, no pressure, buddy. But, I mean, you're setting the tone here, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
And joining us, he's a gamer, a podcaster, a streamer, an announcer, a retired professional wrestler, a singer, and perhaps most importantly, great friend of the show.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Okay. Okay. So Ryan's. Oh, oh, we did not mention. All right. There is one other rule. Matt, why don't you take this? Because this was your idea and I love this idea.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
This ties into actual wrestling. So what was the thing that you said on this one?
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Man. All right. Bowser, Ryan tips his hand right away.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
What does it say about Bowser that he can get picked up by his tail and slung around, though? By a plumber.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I mean, I never want to promote somebody's pick, but Bowser would be hard to pin because he's just going to teeter-totter on that shell, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
That's the only like shout out you get from me, Ryan. That's the only help you're getting on this one. I treasure it. I treasure it. That's making up for your mean intro. I mean, you're really nice intro with your one count, man. That's right. All right. Matt is the wild card on this one, dude, because I... He even told us before we started recording, he's like, I got some really good picks.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I got some interesting picks. I got some out of the left field kind of stuff for you guys. And then my brain's scrambling to where I was like, I need to rethink my list on this one, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I freaking love him. And you're right, dude. I feel like all it would take is just some very short, because he's not a man of many words, but just this really inspirational thing that he says. Yeah. That's all I can say. Try to suplex Bowser. That's all I got to say.
Video Gamers Podcast
The ULTIMATE Video Game Character SMACKDOWN! - Gaming Podcast
I'm also not going to look up how heavy the power armor is, you know, because picking up Master Chief might be tough.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And it's like, no man, there's laws. Like this game is more in depth than you think. And that's when I realized, okay, like this world is so fleshed out. People don't forget. The systems in this game. are so complicated in the way that the villagers interact, they get up, they go to work. And if somebody sees you wearing their clothes, they're going to be like, what the heck, man?
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
So I caved and I just went, okay, apparently I have to be a good boy. Apparently I have to obey the law. And that's when things really started to get a lot smoother for me. And that for me is when it really kind of started to go, okay, I think I get this now, you know, but I will say, and we've seen this from a few other people that, that jumped in.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Those first couple hours can be very frustrating. Oh yeah. Because you are playing a game that is unlike a lot of other games out there, you know? And so I think that was just a little bit of like, okay, I gotta just, I gotta be willing to be in this world versus like, I'm gonna play this game my way. I'm gonna be a thief, you know? And it's like, nah, man, you ain't, you ain't no thief yet. No.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. It's Bohemia, it's 1403, and Ryan has been in the pillory for his eighth time. I'm on the run from the law for sleeping in the wrong bed, and we've lost our dog. Things might sound rough, but man are we having a good time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, this game does a masterful job at like bringing you down, right? Like it chopping you down to size and saying you are a nobody. And if you think you can just sneak around stealthily and steal stuff, nope, you're not a thief. You think you can fight that guard? No. let me tell you something, buddy. You know, like you think you can just walk into somebody's house without permission.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And then it's like, Nope, now they're mad at you because they saw you walk out of their house. And that's when it just like it, like the gears started spinning. And I was like, Whoa, dude. Whoa. So, all right, listen. So we've set the stage. I want to pause on the gameplay talk a little bit because we always do this with the game and we talk about what the hook of the game is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
The long awaited kingdom come deliverance to deep dive is upon us, right? Yeah. We have been dying to talk about this game, man. Like legitimately we, we have said, dude, I can't wait to do this deep dive. Um, and it's finally time. We have been playing the heck out of this game. This game is a massive game. We're going to just start off with saying, like, I know I'm about 30 some odd hours in.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Like what is the thing that stands out to you over and above everything else in this game? But we're going to take a quick break and we're going to talk about that in just a second. All right, we are back. Ryan, it's time to talk that special sauce, that something that makes this game, the kingdom come deliverance to, you just know it's got that magic, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And so what is that hook for you on this game? Oh, man. This is a tough one, isn't it? I still don't know my answer, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
So the word I'm going to use, and I think is exactly what you were describing, because this is absolutely the hook for me, is immersion. Yeah. Like, I don't, dude, I don't know that another game has immersed me into its world like Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 has. And that's exactly what you were saying. And it's funny because we didn't talk about this, like, beforehand.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
But I think it's funny that you and I both picked out, like, the exact same thing. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah. When you are playing this game, you are living this game, dude. You are Henry and you are feeling his struggles with just trying to find clothes, you know, or like, how the heck do I get clean? I didn't realize I'm a stinky mess, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Like people will walk by and they'll be like, oh, you stink. And I'm like, how do you know? And then it's like, I see myself and it's like, oh, I do stink. Yeah. Like that's this game, dude, is it's like you're in 1403 Bohemia. You are a guy that was like a bodyguard to a noble who has gotten lost. Nobody knows who you are. You have this very important quest.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
We'll get into story here in a little bit. And then you were just in this town where nobody likes you. You have nothing, you have nothing. And it's like, how the heck do I survive? And I felt that dude, like that should be frustrating for anybody, right? Cause it's like, imagine if you were just homeless tomorrow, like, Probably be a pretty frustrating day for you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And that's what I felt at the beginning of this game. But it's masterful design because as you get your clothes and as you get clean and as you start to do a little bit of work and it's like, dude, I got some Groschen. Groschen's like the gold in this game. Yeah. I got a few Groschen. I could buy like a dagger, you know, or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Like all of a sudden you kind of start puffing up and you're like, yeah, Henry, we've come a long way, buddy. And then, and then it just continues. And then you start traveling from one place to another. And there's a lot of walking in this game. The world is absolutely gorgeous, but guess what? In 1403, if you didn't have a horse and you needed to go from town a to town B, you're hoofing it, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And that might take a while. Yeah. And so the immersion in this game is absolutely top notch. It is second to none, in my opinion. I mean, every single time that I loaded into Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, I was living in Bohemia as Henry, getting myself into trouble, trying to help people. exploring the woods, you know, hunting boar or whatever the heck I was doing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I think you're a little bit further in than me, Ryan. And I feel like we have just scratched the surface of
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Like, honestly, I don't like, I'm going to put this up there. Immersion factor with like red dead redemption too. Yeah. Like, like honestly, when you play red dead redemption too, you are Arthur Morgan and you are living in the old West. You're galloping your horse through you're under the stars at night. Like dude, like everybody says it's the best cowboy simulator they've ever seen.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 is the best medieval knight slash peasant simulator I've ever seen, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
of what kingdom come deliverance 2 has to offer so while we will be talking about the beginning of the game uh and some of the stuff is like kind of you know initial thoughts as you start off and challenges and things like that we are not going to get into any kind of mid or even late game spoilers for people um but we are going to do our best to kind of just describe what like this game starts off like kind of what it turns into and then we can just kind of rip it from there man so
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So, all right. So let's talk about, we've already said, dude, the immersion in this game is second to none, right? I mean, that's the hook for you and I independently of each other. But you get about six hours in. You've got clothes. You've got people don't hate you anymore. You're clean. You figured out how to clean up. You're starting to earn a little bit of money.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
You venture over to the next town. You manage to walk over there and you're like, dude, OK, I'm not going to steal from anybody in this town. I'm not going to start a fistfight in this town because I know I got to kind of play by the rules. And you start to just get comfortable with the mechanics of the game at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And I think that's really when the sense of wonder and like what is opening up to you. It's almost like these doors, like you're getting a peek, but then the doors kind of open a little bit. And that's when it's like, oh, you know, and then they're like, there's this game in front of me now. Yeah. And that wonder and that like, oh, my goodness, dude, like. I think this game might be really great.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Like I'm getting the mechanics down. I fought something. So it's like I kind of had a taste of the combat at first. I there's all these things I have to do. I have to find my horse. I got to find my dog. I got to go visit this lady like she needs my help and all these things. And the game really just opens up at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And we talk about something similar when people play The Witcher 3, where we have had so many people say, dude, I played The Witcher 3 for like four hours. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't understand why everybody says it's one of the best games ever. And what is our response?
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Get to the Bloody Baron quest, right? Once you do that, it's about six to eight hours in. The game is a rocket ship after that. But yes, it's very dull. It's very boring.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Yes. And Red Dead Redemption 2, famously the snow level. Now, I know that you're really, really weird. I'm psycho. I love it. Yes. But for most people, they say, just grind through the first 45 minutes and then the game takes off. For me, this is the part where Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 really, really just hit the afterburners and started to just blow my mind at that point. So...
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
you know, was there a moment for you? I don't know. It doesn't, I don't know if there's a specific moment, if it's just a general, like as you play and you get comfortable with some of these game systems, but was there a moment where you were just like, Holy crap, dude, like this game's freaking great. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I think for me, there was the part in the beginning. This is not really spoilery because it's early on, too. But you go to the other village that's nearby, and that's where you meet the guy that hates the guy in the first village. They're kind of warring and trolling each other. And it's like they're just playing pranks on each other. But he tells you to steal the maypole. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And it's like, hey, if you go to this town, you want to help out, like steal their maypole. They're so proud of it. And it's like, so I'm in this town and it's like this guy is literally guarding the maypole. And you're like, how do I get rid of this guy?
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And you wind up like at least what I did is I wound up finding out who he liked, setting him up on a date and telling him that I would watch the maypole while he's out on a date with this lady. And then, you know, I wait to nighttime and then I climb the maypole. I cut the top down and I hoof it back to the first town. I give it to the guy. And then it was like, but then there's another story.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
He's like, Hey, you know, if you want to do this and he kind of goes a little bit deeper and then you can decide. I go back to the town cause I'm going to play another prank on him. But then I'm like, dude, I'm kind of jiving with this guy more than that guy. So it's like, so you can tell them like, Hey, this guy is trying to prank you. And then now I'm playing both sides.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And it's like the quest system. That's when it really kind of dawned for me was like, dude, these quests in this game are absolutely phenomenal. They're multi, multi-layered. You can play them however you want to play them and approach them how you want to approach them. Um, there's another one early on with like the alchemist lady that you meet in the woods early on.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And then she, her daughter's missing. So you go on this big quest to find her daughter and then it gets dark. And it's like, then you're like uncovering crimes. And it's like, I'm trying to find clues to these crimes and stuff like that. And that for me was like the launch point where I was just like, Oh, baby. This game is going to be up there for me, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I have not played a game like this in a very long time. And this game is hitting like a game has not in a long time. And it's like you said, literally at work going like... I wonder what I could get into today where I'm going to solve that quest, you know, like that kind of thing while I'm at work just waiting to go home.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I remember that, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
It's, dude, we got a lot to cover. So listen, we're not even going to read reviews. We're just going to dive right into this. We don't have time. There's so much to cover. We don't have time. We could talk about this game for three hours. So we're going to try to cover all this, but you know what? Let's just get right into it, Ryan, because... Let's do it. Like I said, we're excited, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Don't worry. This game is not without, you know, its faults either, and we'll definitely talk about those as well. So... All right, so let's back it up just a little bit. What the heck do you actually do in this game, Ryan? Because people have heard us say, oh, you're a knight, it's a medieval simulator, you're Henry, it's hard to start off. But what do you do?
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
What is just an average gameplay session like, I guess, for people that aren't familiar with this game at all?
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I haven't either. And I think you touched on a good point. You play this game kind of how you want to play it. If you want to brew a bunch of potions and try to make a bunch of money and get really good at that, you can absolutely do that. If you want to go around and try to fight bandits and get really good at fighting, you can absolutely do that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
That's also a good way to get better gear because bandits are usually armored. and if you can kill one of them, then you get to take their gear. And now you have armor as well. Um, you know, the, the play this game, the way you want to play it is a blessing and a curse for a lot of people, because sometimes you can get very, very sidetracked. Um,
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
You know, a point in this game, and we're going to talk about this game up to kind of the wedding, which is the first big, big event in this game. Yeah. And, you know, it's like I we spent 30 hours before I ever went to the wedding. And it's like, that's your main that's your main quest in the beginning, which is only the kind of stepping off point for a lot of the rest of the game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
It's not every day a game like this comes along and there's a lot to talk about. So... What I want to do is I want to start off with just kind of our hype leading up to Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 and to kind of qualify, because we have seen this a lot from people, is I didn't play the first one. Do I need to play the first one? Neither one of us ever played the first Kingdom Come Deliverance.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
But I spent 30 hours doing side quests because number one, the side quests in this game are legitimately equivalent to the Witcher 3 side quests, in my opinion. This game has some of the best side quests I've ever seen in a video game. And again, I'll use this. They're multi-layered. It's not just go to point A and do this. And then, hey, that's cool. Something cool happens. It is go to point A.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Something happens. Now you got point B that you got to go to, but now you have point C and D pick one of those that you think is going to be the most helpful because if you pick one, the other one's probably going away and now you don't even know what you missed, you know, so you're going to have a different experience than your buddy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Once you go to those points, you know, somebody needs help, but that's starting sub quest down. you know, see at that point, which is some crazy dark, almost horrific murder mystery type thing that you've now got to solve. And it just keeps going and going. And I know for a lot of people, they're like, dude, I can't deal with that kind of aimlessness because I'll just do that stuff forever.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And then I'll never actually play the game. I'm kind of like that in a way, but are you having fun? Because if you're having fun, then that's all that matters. And I was having a blast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
The beauty of this is even when you're doing that, even if you're running, if you're picking herbs, the game is rewarding you for it because the skill structure in this game is the type of skill system that says, if you pick enough herbs, you're going to get very good at picking herbs. If you walk encumbered,
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
while you're traveling from one little village to the other, you know what's going to happen? You're going to get stronger. Yeah, it's leg day. You're going to get stronger because you're doing this stuff. And so the whole time you're just having these crazy quests and these crazy adventures, you as Henry are actually getting better at, At like just being Henry.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And so it's like the next time you fight some bandits, those bandits aren't quite as tough, you know? And, and it's like, you start to get better at talking to people. You start to get better at interacting with this world. And it's just this masterful system of just go out and live in this world, do whatever the heck you want and you'll get better at it and you'll figure it out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And then you'll just start feeling like you're living this life that is like, A life of adventure and you're a medieval knight, you know, like trying to find his buddy and stuff like that. And it's just, it's freaking addictive gameplay loop. The setting and the immersion absolutely just are, are accentuate all that dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
So, um, all right, let's get into a couple of little nitty gritty things here. Right? So basically, uh, One of the main complaints that I heard from Kingdom Come Deliverance 1 was the combat. This game has a very different combat system than almost any other game out there. It uses like the direction of your strikes and stuff like that. Give us the kind of simple view of combat, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And did you like it?
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I mean, I think I watched video one time or a trailer to be like, I've heard people talk about this game, but... Do you feel like not playing the first has had any effect on you in your experience with the second?
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I the combat system, I think, is a neat idea. And I think that the idea behind the combat system is you are not a ninja. You are not some superhuman guy to kill a sword 50 times kind of thing. If you're in heavy armor and you're fighting another guy in heavy armor, you're going to get gassed real fast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And that that is part of this game is you're going to run out of stamina by just swinging the sword, you know, and then your guy's going to huff and puff and you kind of have to back off for a second. The directional attack thing is neat. I've seen it in some other games and it does make sense. It's not the most like thrilling combat in the world. It's very methodical almost.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
But again, that's kind of how combat amongst people was. You know, it works. I think it's neat. I don't think it's a highlight of the game, but it's not so weird that I find it distracting either. And again, one of the things that the combat does is serves to show you that you are getting better and better just the longer that you are Henry. Because that first fight, you get your butt kicked.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Oh, yeah. And then you start learning. Okay, well, let me not just mash buttons. Let me think about the direction I'm attacking. Let me block this attack. oh man, this guy's probably better than me because he's coming at you really fast. And it's like, maybe I should just run away. You know, this guy's obviously a better fighter than me or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
The combat does really work to kind of heighten encounters and things like that. Like at one point I had found a bandit camp in the woods and, you know, us old school gamers, we like to try to break games and figure out ways around it. And there was like five of these guys. You're not fighting five guys at once. Like, just plain and simple. Like, that's not going to happen.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
But I use stealth because you can stealth in this game as well. And so I use stealth to kind of creep around one guy. I, you know, stab them in the back. You know, you can do the stealthy kills and stuff like that. And then that... one of his people realized he was missing and he starts looking for him. So I'm hiding in a bush.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And then it's like, I jump out and I stealth kill that guy before you knew it. I'm Sam Fisher. I took out the whole camp, you know? And then I got some really sweet loot out of it at the same time. So it was like, I was proud of myself, but that's, again, it's just one of those little things where it's like, you can kind of approach combat in the same way.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Um, so I, I, I think combat serviceable, it's a neat system. It's not like it's no, uh, It's no Dark Souls or Elden Ring for me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, the game's focus is not combat either. I mean, you can certainly be an aggressive person in the game if you want to, but again, it's not like this is a combat-forward game either. We kind of touched on the quests. I'm just going to repeat what I said, dude. This game has some of the best quests I have ever seen in a video game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I, I, I love the quest. If you play this game, you absolutely cannot just be lying. The main quest, the side quest, like there there's some of the best man. I can't tell you, I don't want to spoil things, but I absolutely took every side quest I could find. Um, And almost every time I was just like, oh my goodness, I could have missed that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
If I hadn't helped this little old lady, you know what I mean? I could have missed this entire quest line. Like, oh my goodness, I did not expect that it was going to go there. So you are not playing this game to just beeline the main campaign. If you do, I think you're seriously missing out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
So, all right, Ryan, we got to talk some graphics and audio and then we're going to kind of get into some of the things that don't work in this game, but we're going to take one more quick break and we'll be right back. All right, we're back. I mean, if people can't tell, we're kind of gushing over Kingdom Come Deliverance 2. Just a little bit. You know, just a little bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I mean, there's really not... We don't have to get deep into this. Graphics, absolutely phenomenal, dude. This game is beautiful, dude. I mean, it's absolutely gorgeous. Even to the point where it's like, if you're in like a little rundown village, the street is muddy and it's kind of like this place is lived in. You know, it's... It's an absolutely beautiful game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I think that really helps in that sense of immersion and just feeling like you're traveling across this gorgeous countryside. Character models are really good. I mean, armor, if you put on pieces of armor, they reflect. I mean, it's as graphically pleasing as you could hope for in a game of this size. Oh, gosh, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I think one of the coolest things when you talk about details, too, I don't want to get too sidetracked on this, but this world is alive. Like when people people go to bed, they wake up when they wake up, they eat breakfast and Like they actually go to the table. You can hear a husband and wife talking, telling each other good morning.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
The wife goes over to the stew pot, like grabs breakfast, gives it to the guy. Then he gets dressed, you know, or he'll walk over to his chest and then he'll put on like his armor and his gear for the day. And then you literally see him like in his armor and gear. And then he walks out of the house. He'll go to a shop. He'll open it up. You know, that kind of stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
If you break into his house in the middle of the night and you steal his stuff, it's He can't get dressed, and he'll comment on it, and he'll be like, where did my clothes go? And it's that level of detail that absolutely sets this game apart from a lot of other games out there. It's not fake detail. This is legitimately how these characters are going about their lives.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I'm with you 100% on this one. I did not ever once feel like I was out of place or I had missed something or I'm confused because I don't know who these people are. This game does a phenomenal job of giving you kind of an introduction to the characters and why you're kind of doing what you're doing and things like that. So for all those people out there that are going,
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Like you said, water runoff, bridges. I mean, you see it everywhere in this game, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, they did. Oh, man. All right. So audio, honestly, audio second to none in this game. The voice acting is absolutely incredible. All the characters sound unique. You actually believe their emotions and their, it's just, it's, it's fantastic.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Even like the sound when you finally get your horse and you just, you know, you make the little horse sound and it's like every time and I'm like, Oh yeah, it's great, man. Like really, really well presented in this. Um, All right, so we're kind of running out of time a little bit on this. Let's talk about the wedding, right? And this is a little bit spoilery.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And again, the wedding is a huge event in this game because it is your, to not be too spoilery, it is how you think that you are going to go from being this unknown guy that nobody knows to being recognized, finding your buddy who is a lord. You guys are on this very important mission to deliver a letter to this lord
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Two kings are fighting over territory that's kind of like civil war is about to break out. So you have this very important mission. You realize that the Lord is going to be at the wedding. And so if you can go to this wedding, you can probably meet the Lord. And then he'll realize who you are.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And now you're back to being the guard for this noble, who's also, I think, your best friend or something like that in the game. So this wedding is a really big event. I will say that I was very curious how they were going to pull this off. And they pulled it off masterfully, dude. I mean, you go to this town. You're in this Lord's Manor. There's people everywhere. People are getting drunk.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
You're having to deal with this. You're doing these little mini side quests at the wedding to try to impress the Lord whose wedding you're at. You're doing all these crazy things. You've had to do all this work to even be able to get to the wedding. Things go a little south. I just, they absolutely nailed this event and how they made this event feel and the scope and the scale of it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And then like how nothing quite goes the way you plan. And I just, I was blown away. I mean, what did you think about this?
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I've been really interested in this game, but I don't have time to play the first one. And I know this is the second one. Don't worry. I just jump in because I mean, this game's massive. So unless you've got something like 200 hours of game time, uh, to just dedicate to kingdom come one and two, then I think you're a okay to just jump straight in here.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
It's so good. It's a Game of Thrones level of like... intrigue and an event happening and all these little sub events that are happening within this event. And it's like, you, you don't have to get involved in any of it, but it draws you in so much that even the guy that's like the womanizer that's trying to hit on one of the ladies.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And then these other two dudes are watching it and you walk by and they're like, look at this idiot, man. He has no idea. And then, and then like you're talking and they're like, you think you could do better? And you're like, yeah, I do. And then you go over there and you're having this really in-depth conversation where again, your answers and your choices don't absolutely matter.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And then it's like, thankfully I made the right choices. And she's like, Oh, thank goodness you saved me from this guy. But now like, I hate you. He hates you the whole wedding because it's like you ruined him. You know, like you blocked him from hitting on this lady. And it's like, It's the most masterful design, dude. Again, it's incredible.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
After a night in the bathhouses, we're clean, we're rested, and we're ready to dive into Kingdom Come Deliverance 2. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Lord Josh. And joining me, he whined and whined about how dumb this game was at first, but I had to tell him he was late for recording to get him to stop playing now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And to think that this is where the game launches forward. Like, this is where you go from being Henry and figuring your life out to now you are caught up in the...
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
biggest political intrigue since like game of thrones dude like this i mean it is it this game is so much more than what you think it is even 30 hours in and it just is a rocket ship going into outer space man it's ridiculous so okay if people haven't picked up what we're putting down and you can't tell how excited we are we hated it we just let's just put the cards on the table ryan do you think that kingdom come deliverance 2 is a game of the year contender
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Dude, I will say this. I think that if this game does not get nominated for Game of the Year, there is absolutely something wrong with the gaming industry as a whole, dude. This is one of the most masterful games that I have come across in a very, very long time, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
The other thing that we're hearing from people that played the first one is that this game is very, very much improved over the first and where the first game was, Could kind of falter a little bit. And I kind of had some more complex systems and the combat wasn't as good and things like that. We have heard from a lot of people that, dude, this game's just like it's it's been expanded.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I can't imagine it's not, dude. And I'll go so far as to say, I think it has an insanely good chance of actually winning game of the year as well. I know it's only February. We got a lot of games coming, but I mean, we've been gaming a long time. A game like this does not come around often. And I mean, it's like that there is something absolutely special about this. So
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
People are going, okay, okay. But I've heard people say they don't like this game or they don't like this thing. So let's be honest. I do think that this game may not be for everybody. And I do think that there are parts of this game that maybe would be off-putting to some people. So what doesn't work in this game for you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
It's been improved on. So why go through the first if you can just experience what the second has to offer? You know, we talked about our hype leading up to this being that we never played the first one. I remember seeing trailers and it was kind of like, cool, this game looks really neat. Then people started to get excited. We got closer to release date.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I am with you 100%. I slept in the exact same wrong bed that you did, and I got arrested. And actually, at that point, I was like, screw this, dude. And I just tried to fight the guard instead, and then I got whooped because he's a guard. But thankfully, I had actually saved it right before then.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
So one of the things that I will complain about, and again, this does fall into the immersion, so it's kind of a pro and a con, is that you cannot just quick save in this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And you know, you have to sleep in your bed to be able to save, or you have to brew these things called savior schnapps, which if you drink it, it kind of, it will save the game for you, but they're not the easiest thing in the world to brew. Initially. I get that later on, it gets a little bit easier to have these, but in the beginning, when you're really struggling, you can't say very often.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And I absolutely lost an hour and a half of gameplay because I had gone on this big, long quest and I didn't sleep and I died and, to something completely stupid, you know, and then I lost 90 minutes worth of gameplay. And I was like, dude, this sucks. Like, let me just save the game at that point. So the same system, I get it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
It's immersive in a way, and it definitely makes you consider your choices and you can't just save scrub when you're trying to rob somebody's house or pick somebody's pocket. So it really does make you question your choices. in the decisions that you make, but at the same time, it can absolutely lead to frustration.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
We have heard a few stories from people where they were fast traveling after a long quest, just trying to get back to the town so that they could sleep in their bed. They got ambushed by bandits along the way they died and they lost an hour's worth of gameplay, you know, and that is just frustrating. There's no, there's no other way around it. It's just frustrating.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I know that you and I were both very, very excited for this release, but it kind of came with a little bit of like, I don't know what to expect on this. And our hype meter is really high, but what if we get in here and it just sucks, Ryan? So were you hesitant kind of leading up to the release and jumping in for the first time?
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Ryan's all frustrated again. I'm just thinking about that lady running and going to tell on me because I slept in the wrong bed. And you just got done helping her, saving her daughter.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
This is the problem with having these systems where there's laws involved, but the game's not quite smart enough to know that you just helped. So she's going to be nice to you. So the other thing that I will bring up, and I think this is absolutely a valid concern for people is this game is slow paced. Yes. Like it is not an action game. When you are traveling, you are walking or riding a horse.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And even then a lot of times it's just, it's just going from one place to the other. Now the world's beautiful and things can happen along the way, but, But, you know, combat slow and methodical, you know, the day cycle slow and methodical. Some of the quests, you know, they're not all super intriguing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Like one of them might be just, you know, leading a sheep somewhere to help somebody out, you know, that kind of thing. And so this is very much a sim type game like medieval simulator, I think, is somewhat accurate. And so if you are thinking that you are going to get into this very high-paced, action-oriented game with really deep quests and stuff, that's not what this game is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Honestly, I think there is huge payoff for experiencing this game, but you have to understand what you're going into, and that is that this is just a slow-paced, methodical game that... Very, very memorable stuff. But if you you kind of have to just expect like it's slower paced, you know, there's there's talking to people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
There's going from point A to point B. There might be a moment of like chaos, but that's usually the exception, you know, instead of like the way this game just plays. So I was worried because I don't like sim type games that this would put me off. It absolutely did not put me off. I can see how masterful this game is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
But I get that it could be off-putting to a lot of people where they're like, this game's just kind of slow, man. For sure. If you're not expecting that, I think it could be jarring for people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I mean, I don't like Sims. Yeah. And I absolutely loved this game, dude. So let's get into that, Ryan. Let's get, I mean, let's just go to our leaderboard, dude. People know we love this game. I don't, that's no question. We don't have to explain why at this point, I do want to rate this game because it deserves it. And I want people to understand the quality of this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I know where I'm putting this. Yeah. Do you know where you're putting it? I do. I do. I'm just going to come out and say it. I am rating this game a 9.6, dude. I am putting this game on the level of Disco Elysium, Divinity Original Sin 2, Outer Wilds. That's the only three games on my leaderboard that I have at a 9.6. That is slightly above Helldivers 2, Rocket League, Rust.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
That's not to say that those games aren't more fun to me. You know, there is that level of like, this is an impressive video game, but you know, fun factor wise, maybe it's not as up there as some of these others, but there is absolutely no denying what kingdom come deliverance to is. And that is one of the most impressive video games that I've played in a very long time, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I can't tell you how good this game is. I mean, from, from the little stupid brewing potions, There's a whole game within a game on how you brew potions, man. It's like lock picking is another game within a game. The systems in this game are incredible. The quest in this game are Witcher 3 level quests. The immersion in this game, I don't know that I can think of another.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Red Dead Redemption 2 is the only other game that comes to mind when we talk about levels of immersion. And I'm sorry, but when you start comparing a game to The Witcher 3 and Red Dead Redemption 2, there is some kind of magic there that is just hard to capture. And they freaking did it, dude. They absolutely did it. 9.6 for me. This is an all-timer type of video game, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
That's equal to Cyberpunk 2077 and Helldivers 2. Metal Gear Solid 5. And that's it on your list, dude. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I can't. I mean, that's just our scores say it, dude. I mean, we're comparing this game to Cyberpunk, to Witcher, to Red Dead. I mean, and honestly, it belongs there. This is not recency bias. I've been playing Avowed for the last couple of days, you know, and we're going to cover that. So this is not like, oh, well, you know, you guys just got done playing this kind of thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
This is just how good this game is. Now, I will say, I don't think it's for everybody. I do think that there are a lot of people out there that would go, I found it boring. It was too slow. That's a valid criticism. I don't like sim games. I've said that five times this episode, but I love this game because it does enough to not make it feel like a sim game to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
So if you're the kind of person where you love immersion, you love this living world, you love feeling like you are the character... This is an absolute must play this game. It will a hundred percent be in the game of the year contention. In my opinion, I can't imagine a word, but it's not. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And so if you're one of those people where you go, well, I need to know what the game of the year contenders like this, play this game. The fact that the devs are super cool and this is technically an indie game, play this game. I mean, I don't know what more we can say on that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
So that's all we're going to say because we're running long and we'll just keep gushing about this game for the next 20 minutes. So...
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
oh man i freaking this game's so good dude oh my goodness so good so all right i gotta go download avowed yeah you do need to start playing it it's it's it's a shorter game about like i think it's like 25 hours dude you could blow through that in like a week and get back to work
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And for people, we do have some people asking, we are going to cover Avowed and then we're going to cover Split Fiction. That's all we know because we're not planners at this point. We might come back to Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 after that. Who knows? But yeah, do yourself a favor and experience this because there are very, very few video games that are like it. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
If you enjoyed this episode, please take a second to follow the podcast in your podcast app. Make sure you click that follow button. Make sure you click that plus button, whatever it is that say, hey, I want your episodes the day that they release. That really helps us out. If you haven't done so already, please take a second to rate us five stars in Spotify and on Apple as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
If you're on Apple, you can leave a written review. We usually read those on the show, but we knew we were going along on this one. And if you love what we do, if you want to support this, if you want to keep this kind of content going, if you, you know, like I said, if you have found enjoyment in what we do, please think about supporting the show. It really does mean the world to us.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
It keeps this podcast going and it helps us do things like some of these charity drives that we've been doing lately, paying for games like Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 and stuff like that. you can do that at multiplayer squad.com and we'll give you a shout out. And we honestly really do appreciate it as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
So that's it for this episode, Ryan, we didn't do too bad, you know, and a little over an hour, 10, whatever, you know, until next time, everybody happy gaming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I will say it was kind of a nervous moment almost. I'm really excited for this. I really want a game to kind of grab me to really just be able to dive into. Yeah. But... A lot of people have said that Kingdom Come Deliverance, the first one, was kind of a niche game where it's like the combat was very difficult. It was different. It was a slow pace.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
A lot of people called it a medieval simulator. And I don't like sim games, man. I want my games to be fantasy, sci-fi, action. I don't want to work in my video games. Right. And some of the stuff that I saw in like from, from previews of the first one, it was like, you're tilling the ground. You're taking a bag from one lady to the, to the next, you know, and delivering things.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And I just, there was a part of my brain that was like, I don't know if I'm going to like this dude. Yeah. Like I'm not a SIM guy. I think this, it might be a little bit too slow paced for me, but we'll see. I know I'm really excited, but man, it was, I also kind of ready to, to kind of be caught, uh, you know, in that like this game is just not for me kind of category as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
So let's talk about that. We load up the game. We're super excited. You dive in. Let's just talk about the first I want to say, like maybe two hours, right? So this game, like I said, it does a good job of kind of leading you into the game, introducing you to the characters. So what were the first like two hours like for you before you got thrown in jail?
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Because there's a there's a decent introduction There's some cut scenes. They're explaining the characters and that kind of thing. So what was that initial kind of first hour to two hours like for you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Okay, wait. They did right on this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I think a lot of that is the presentation in the beginning. Like I know a lot of people said, dude, if I get hit with two hours of cut scenes to start this game off, like that's going to be a problem. And I get that because some games really want to kind of set the stage for you. For sure. But dude, when you're loading up a new game and you raced home from work, you know what I mean?
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And it's like, dude, you click the icon, it's loading up. I want to play the game, dude. I don't want to sit for two hours and watch cut scenes just so that you can kind of set the stage for me. And I will say, while there are some cut scenes and stuff like that, I think instantly you are presented with something that is very well presented. Like, you know, the voice acting in this game is great.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
The graphics are phenomenal. And then you kind of just immediately identify with these characters because they have personality and you're like, oh, OK, I can tell who that guy is. Oh, these two guys are friends. They've got their squad of people with them that they're traveling across the country with. And so I was kind of instantly enamored by just the overall quality of this game. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Um, and they, they do a good job of not just bombing you with two hours worth of cut scenes. Like, yes, you are going to watch some, but they really get into the, uh, letting you control your character, uh, having you interact with like, you know, some other guys that ride up on you. And then you start to kind of see, Oh, my dialogue options are going to matter and things like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And then all heck just breaks loose, man. Things go completely South very, very quickly. Um, And that's what I want to talk about now, because I don't want to spoil what goes wrong, because people will experience that soon enough. But after everything goes catastrophically wrong, you are then dumped into the game itself. And so all of that, like you said, was kind of a tutorial.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
It teaches you the mechanics of the game. I think they did a masterful job at keeping that interesting, because there's a lot going down. And they're kind of explaining some of the mechanics, how you sneak, how you run, how you can... you know, approach things and all these sorts of things and there's chaos happening. And it was very interesting in my opinion, but then the game starts.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And this is where I really started to go, I don't think I like this game, dude. And I know you kind of felt the same way though, right? Because you and I were chatting a little bit and you were just like, dude, I just keep getting thrown in jail. And I was just a wanted man in like two towns, little villages. Everywhere.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And they hated me and I didn't know what to do. You get dumped off. You're, you're naked. You're broke. You're alone. Nobody knows who you are. And you're just told to just go out and survive. Right. Like just, you know, find a thing. And we talked to the developers on this game. Shout out Andre. We love you, man. Best friend. Best friend. Yep.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
So we talked to the devs on this and he gave us insight into this, which I thought was really interesting is he said people were struggling in the beginning of this game. So we put this beggar lady in the very first town where you kind of get dumped off that so that she can guide you and point you in the right direction. And we were like, oh, that makes a lot of sense because she does.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
I thought it was the stock. So I don't know the difference between stocks and pillory, but I was always under the assumption that those were the stocks.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
She says, hey, you should probably find some clothes. Also, you smell really bad. You should probably get cleaned up and things like that. But even with that direction, completely lost, dude. Why does everybody hate me? Everybody hates me because I stole some clothes and apparently somebody saw me. And so what... Was it like that for you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Because I was very put off on this game for probably the first like past the tutorial for probably the first like two hours. I was like, dude, I don't like this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
No service. They don't want you, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
you grew to love being in the stock it's just it felt comfortable you know it's like kind of that that you know that home feeling okay yeah i mean i i don't know man they show a pretty gnarly scene with you being in the the pillory for like 24 hours and that looked rough to me man All right. Well, listen, we have a phenomenal show.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, this is one where I think my frustrations initially were I was trying to play. I was trying to like force my thinking on the game where it's like, well, I'm just going to steal these clothes. Yeah, you can't do that here. And that's the thing is like legitimately it is the I can't play this game this way. Like it's not going to work. These people are smart. This is a living world.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
They have laws and I can't just steal somebody's clothes and they won't notice that I'm wearing their clothes. And so I got myself in a lot of trouble. And when you're in trouble, people hate you. And when people hate you, they don't want to help you. And because you stink and you're naked and you're hated now, there's literally nothing you can do in these opening towns.
Video Gamers Podcast
Did We Just Play the 2025 Game of the Year? - Gaming Podcast
And that's where my frustration kind of was like, dude, what am I supposed to do? And then we had somebody that kind of knew the game and they said, dude, just go to jail, clear your name. That way people will talk to you again. And it's kind of like a reset button. And there's a part of me that was like, well, no, I want to figure it out, man. Like I want to steal these clothes.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Heroic Helldivers 2 - Gaming Podcast
And mine's just shooting out everywhere. And you're just watching this stuff and you're just like, yo, this is the coolest thing I've ever seen.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Heroic Helldivers 2 - Gaming Podcast
buzzsaw that is getting closer and closer yeah while your guy is slowly picking himself up off the ground and you're just in your head screaming like get up hurry
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Heroic Helldivers 2 - Gaming Podcast
josh what are you doing and i'm like dude i'm not dying to that thing anymore dude because it's like a five minute it's like a five minute cool down yeah when we're on in the lower level that's only like a minute or two and the suicide it was like seven minutes to get it back and i'm like oh come on man yeah so now it's just him going josh do not blow up my mortar and me going ryan do not summon that mortar right now
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Heroic Helldivers 2 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, no. Poor Jackson. So, you know, we land and Jackson's still talking trash about how he's not going to die. And I literally just turn and I shotgun him in the face. And then he just goes, hey, you shot me.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Heroic Helldivers 2 - Gaming Podcast
You have lit the lamps of liberty. See you, everybody. See ya!
Video Gamers Podcast
[Replay] Heroic Helldivers 2 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, yeah. Don't forget that part, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Oh, this room obviously has a puzzle in it. Okay, so let me try to solve this puzzle. Or this room has a clue that I don't know what to do with, but I have a feeling this ties into that other room that I came across somewhere because they seem to be tied together in some way. And so, you know, this is where you start to get the little nibbles where...
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
where you get the little nibbles where it's like okay i i now i am kind of seeing why i i've come across this room and why i need to go back to that room now with this clue that i was given sort of thing so that's the the general gameplay part of it now ace this the there are roguelike elements to this as well um and what are the roguelike elements to this well the roguelike elements like you said is every time you you know end the day as it were uh you're
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Blueprints burst onto the gaming scene with some truly incredible hype. Game of the year, best puzzle game ever, best game someone has ever played. The reviews and hype reached a frenzied level, but are they true? Is this game equal to the likes of Portal 2, The Witness, and Outer Wilds?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
So let's expand on that a little bit since we're talking about the gameplay portion because this is where this is a frustrating part of the game, but it's also like a rewarding part of the game and it does bring some excitement with it as well. So Ace, you said the main mechanic in this game is that every time you go through a doorway, you expend a step.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Okay, so if you go into a room and turn around and walk right back out that doorway, you've just expended two steps.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Exactly. So you have to be cautious about how much wandering around you do, and you have to understand that every time I go into this room... I am going to expend one of these steps. So that is one of the roguelike mechanics. Run out of steps. Your day is over. You respawn.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
You start every single day right back in that main entranceway with three doors standing in front of you and nothing is in this mansion. So again, you don't know what you're going to find behind these doors. You might get different choices of rooms put in front of you and things like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
The other part of this game are the fact that some doors are locked, so you have to find keys to open these doors. And if you come across a locked door and you do not have a key, you are stuck. You cannot open that door.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
If you have no other doors, you're stuck. Yep. And then you have certain rooms that are special rooms that require you to spend gems to have that room appear behind the door that you are trying to open. So if the game says, hey, this is a special room...
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Oh man. Yeah. Yeah, I remember this. This was in the labyrinth, man. And I never knew quite how people figured that out. You know, it's like the two doors and it's like one door always tells the truth. One door is lies. And then she's like, what would that door say? And then she figures it out. And I'm like, I don't I don't get this. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
It has three exits to this room, for instance, or it gives you an option of you can change the rooms that show up in the other doorways as a perk of this room, but it costs you two gems to open this door and make this room appear.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And so if you are out of gems... you can open the door still and you can select one of the three options, but they always give you one option that does not require gems. The problem with this is that this drastically limits your draft choice in the rooms that you pick because a lot of rooms don't have exits.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And so you can very much become trapped in a run because you simply run out of doors to open at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that is frustrating to a degree because you kind of go, well, if I just could find two gems and come back, then I could pick this room that I want or need, but you can't. So I want to talk about, I want to stay on this topic a little bit because I'll be honest, this is the point in the game where I found the most frustration. And I think a lot of people find the most frustration.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And a lot of people that we have talked to, especially in our community and online, are all seem to come across the same problem with this game, and that is kind of how these roguelike elements work. We have to take a quick break, but we're going to come out and talk about that here in just a second. All right, guys. All right, so we're talking blueprints.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
We've kind of explained the basic gameplay loop on this, but we have to talk about some of the frustration that's involved here because I know I got very frustrated about a third of the way into this game where you're drafting these rooms, and if you're lucky, a room has two other exits. That's if you're lucky. A lot of rooms, they're just a straight shot, and they have one other doorway. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
So if you say, hey, here's this room. There's one other door in it. You go to open that door, and you're presented with three dead ends as your choices through that door. That path is closed to you at that point. And this happens a lot, dude. I can't tell you how many runs I experienced where I had gems. I had keys. I just had nowhere to go. There were no doors for me to open at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
But what I do know is I have a 33% chance of getting that stupid box puzzle right. Oh, man. Guys, we're going to be talking about Blueprints. I mean, this game came out of nowhere, dude. I mean, nowhere. It burst onto the gaming scene with people saying this is one of the best games I have ever played. People saying this game ranks up there with the likes of some of the greats.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Half the time, I picked a room because it had two exits. Even if I didn't want the room, it was like, well, at least there's two doors in this room that I'm unlocking, so at least I have two options to try to continue. So... I found parts of this game to be supremely frustrating, and this is where the frustration came in. Dude, I've got gems. I've got keys. I ran out of doors.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Okay, I have plenty of doors that I can unlock, but I'm out of keys now. Okay, so I can't unlock these doors. There's no keys to be found. Run over. Oh, I've got keys, and I've got rooms with doors in it. Oh, here's a fantastic choice, but I can't pick it because I'm out of gems now. And I can't pick the good room that has three other exits in it or has something I need run over.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Dude, I went through freaking 20 runs, 20 days worth of runs where it was just like it was the worst, man. It was the no path to go anywhere. Freaking no keys anywhere. No gems to be found. If I had two, I didn't have the other one. If I had one, I didn't have the other two. And this is where I really started to go like, what the heck is going on, man? Like, I'm not discovering anything.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I've been through these same rooms 20 freaking times. I'm not discovering anything. Where are the puzzles? Where is the discoveries? Where is the exploration? It's just the same freaking rooms over and over and over again. And I can't get a good path through the stupid mansion to discover anything at this point. And I really started to get frustrated by that. Did that hit you guys too?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Oh, it hit me like a brick.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Oh, don't worry. We'll talk about that here. I got there. I was like, I don't know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
What about you, Ryan? Did this, does this hit you the same way?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
There were people that said, dude, I don't know that I've ever played a game like this before. And when you hear that kind of talk as gamers, we kind of go like, what? What? What are you talking about over there? And it just so happened that it fell into that perfect moment where at least I was very hungry for like a good puzzle game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And it's funny because a few people in our community, we were all just kind of sharing our thoughts, and it was very funny to see other people be like, I'm stuck. I'm not accomplishing anything. This game is frustrating for me. I'm on day 17, and I feel like I've done the same loop like seven times in a row now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And that was, for me, I would say if I had to guess, I think there was probably a three-hour stretch where I accomplished absolutely nothing. No discoveries, no new puzzles, no new findings, just dumb run after dumb run after dumb run with bad RNG because I could not progress. Now... If you push through that, if you push through that frustration, the game changes, in my opinion.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Like it goes from being like, I don't understand the hype to this game to I think I'm starting to see why people are liking this game now. Because once you start to figure things out a little bit and once you start to realize like, oh, I absolutely need gems so that I can get a good layout. And like, oh, this room will always give me two keys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
So if I have a chance to draft this room, even if it's a dead end, I need those two keys if I'm going to progress later. So I'm drafting this room. So I have keys now. I have gems now. And I'll just hope for the best for a good path, like to appear through this sequence of rooms here.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
So I want to talk about I don't obviously we don't have time to cover every room, but I want to talk about some of the different room types in this game, because I think this kind of gives you a good look at like the heart of this game. Like you're looking around these things you're exploring. There's two rooms that have puzzles in them that you will come across a hundred times.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
This is the parlor that gives you a three box puzzle where, you know, one of the boxes is always a lie. There is a statement on the lid of the box. It might be something as simple as this box is blue and it's sitting on a white box. You're like, well, I know that's false. One statement is always true. One statement is always false.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And based on those two statements, you have to try to figure out which box has these gems in it. If you pick the right box, you get a couple of gems, which are very important in this game. It starts off fairly easy. Then, dude, then it just gets so weird and complicated after a while that I was just like, dude, screw this, man. I'm just picking a box, dude. Like, did you guys do that?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And then there is the billiard hall, which with the dartboard, you know, they showed this off in the trailer. So this is not spoilery, just like they showed the boxes off in the trailer. But the billiard room has this dartboard that has colors overlapping the wedges on the dartboard. And these colors correspond to mathematic equations. Like equations that you need to do. Bro. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And the fact that this game had roguelike elements and stuff like that to it made it sound very, very interesting. As we know, sometimes internet hype doesn't quite match what the game itself is. And so we all said, you know what? Let's play Blueprints. Let's see what the hype is about. And then let's come talk about it. Because I want to know if this is all true.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Ace is dead already. So, you know, if it's green, it just means, hey, this this number plus. Right. And then if it's yellow, it means subtract. If it's pink, it means multiply. If it's blue, it means divide. And it starts you off very simple. Very, very simple. Here's the catch.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Every time you do this puzzle, and every time you do the box puzzle, the game knows, and it gets harder and harder and harder as you progress. Dude, after 50 runs at this game, I'm doing the square root of, like, nine? Yeah. multiplied by the square root of, or I'm sorry, by four squared minus a number times a number divided by another number. And I'm just going like, I think I know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And then I click it and then you get it wrong and it starts you over at the beginning. Now the puzzle stays the same for that run, but it's like, I'm doing freaking calculus here, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. You need to solve these puzzles to get the keys and the gems that you need for playing this game. But they really do get complicated after a while. I will say that this is where I was a little bit like, is this actually a puzzle game? Because these are like the only two puzzles that you keep coming across.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And I thought that you would have something like this in almost every room, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I know what's in the box. It's two gems. It never changes. Two gems. Well, the colors of the gems change.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Not that that matters either. All right. So in talking about the rooms, yes, you're going to run into these two puzzle rooms time and time and time again. You are going to run into certain rooms very, very often.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Now, where the game really starts to dangle the carrot, at least in my case, was when you make it about halfway through these levels and you're getting, you know, further towards the top of this nine by five grid board that you're on. Uh, and it shows you the antechamber square up at the very top row, right in the middle. This is your goal. You're trying to get there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Because if so, oh my goodness, you're talking some of my favorite puzzle games ever. And if it's not, then what the heck is wrong with all you people that are saying this is one of the best games I've ever played? So we're going to be breaking all that down, but we do have a little bit of housekeeping that we need to get to.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And as you start to get further and it gives you ranks, right? So it's like, you know, each, each, uh, row that you were on as a rank. So when you start getting to like rank five or six, you start getting options for these new crazy rooms that you've never seen before. And, you know, one of the things, and this is a tip for anybody is if you ever come across a new room, you've never seen before.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Pick that room because there's this is where the game progresses itself and you start to get clues and things for other parts of the house. Now, the other thing that you find is not only these unique rooms, but there are items in the game. You know, you might get a metal detector that helps you find coins or keys that you might have missed in a room.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
You get a magnifying glass, which is very important for solving some of the puzzles or the clues in this game. You can get a sledgehammer, which lets you break open locked boxes so you don't have to use your keys for that. There's a whole slew of items and they all do something. Part of the game is finding these items and then finding the right room to use these items in.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And this is where some of the permanent progression for the game comes in. Whereas or you solve like some of these bigger puzzles. So for me, I found the magnifying glass. And then in another room, I found a photo that I looked at and the magnifying glass popped up. And I started looking around the photo and I saw this scribbled out area on the photo with the magnifying glass.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I could make out the letters that were underneath the photo at that point. That gave me a huge clue to a password or a code on a safe or something like that. those were the Eureka moments where I went, Oh my gosh, like I know how to open this gate now because I, I had the magnifying glass and I looked at this photo and there it was. It's the combination to this gate that I'd never knew before.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
So I beeline it to the gate. I unlock it. And then the game says, Hey, congratulations. You have opened the orchard. You are going to start every run with 10 new steps or 10 extra steps every day. Yeah. And that's when I went, Okay. Okay. Here we go. Like, I'm starting to make progress. At one point, you get higher allowance that gives you a couple coins to start each day.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Ryan, you talked about you can unlock a certain thing that lets you start with a couple gems each day. And this is where the permanent progression in the roguelike elements kicks in. Did you find that rewarding?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, it's huge, right? It feels like plus the steps and everything else. It's weird because when I say it, it just doesn't sound important, but having two gems at the start of every single run absolutely changes. Oh, game-changing. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And man, my favorite, if we're going to call it a chore because it's housekeeping, my favorite chore in the world is thanking new people for supporting this podcast. So a huge thank you. Huge thank you to Jagged Sun and You Meet in a Tavern for both signing up for rare status to help support this podcast. Both of you rock.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
It was very rewarding. You can also, through gameplay and getting a certain room or just RNG again, you can find an upgrade disc, which lets you modify some of the more popular or common rooms that you find to where now every time you have that option for the room, you are guaranteed to get two keys or two gems out of that room and things like that. So there are permanent upgrades there as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
One other thing on the permanent upgrades is if you get through a certain room and an event or a puzzle or something like that, that will unlock permanent shortcuts to a degree. Like at one point early on, you can unlock this gate.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And once that gate is unlocked, you can go to this outside room that I went to every single time to start every run because it unlocks certain things that modify the house and stuff like that. So there are permanent progression items.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Oh my gosh, what am I doing? So for instance, unlocking the shed gives you a choice of three rooms, just like every other door in the game, but they're unique rooms that are unique to the outside shed, which is like, hey, there's these red rooms which have negative effects. So you can pick something that says the first three red rooms have no negative effect for you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
You can pick one that's a trading post where you can actually, if you find a shovel, but you want to trade it for the sledgehammer, you can go there and trade it for that. they have all kinds of different options for you that you can then it kind of affects your run so
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
That's hilarious, too, because I literally started every single run by beelining it to the shed and picking a room.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Ryan's like, it's not part of the mansion. What do I need this for?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
So I don't want to get too bogged down in the weeds. There are a lot of very unique rooms. Ryan, you found a room that you shared. I was like, dude, I'm 14 hours into this game, and I have never seen this room in my life.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I'm going to go back to the frustrating part again, because again, here is where I started to get frustrated. I start I'm starting to understand what these rooms are. I'm starting to understand what rooms I need to find. I'm starting to understand that I need this item in this run to go to this room.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
OK, like I need the magnifying glass so that I can go to the dark room so that I can look at these photos in the dark room. To do that, I need the circuit breaker room so that I can turn the lights on in the dark room so that I can see these photos. But to do that, I have to have the magnifying glass or I'm not going to be able to do what I need to do.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
So you're getting RNG three different times here. You need this specific item that you don't find in every run. You need this specific room that you don't find in every run. And you need to find the circuit breaker room that you don't find in every run. And this is again where I started to get very frustrated, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Jagged Sun comes in, makes an enshrouded server for everybody because a lot of people on our server are playing enshrouded. You meet in a tavern. I love that name because that is 100% a fan of Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah. If I've ever known a D&D player in my life, that's one there. So thank you to both of you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I got frustrated when I was running out of gems and keys and getting trapped in a very small, bad draw of doors, right? And then you finally start to kind of make permanent progression there. And then it's like, oh, okay. But then you start to realize that you need RNG to really go your way as you're making your way through the kind of latter half of this game. And I got frustrated all over again.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And I was like, this is stupid. I know what I need to do. I just can't freaking do it because the numbers will not roll my way in this case. And again, I spent 12 to 15 runs trying to get this perfect combination of having the magnifying glass, getting the breaker room, and getting the dark room so that I could actually figure something out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And this just really started to kind of blow my mind where I was like, This isn't fair. It's not fair, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Dude, there was a run where I had the magnifying glass, I had the dark room, and I needed the breaker room. And I made it almost to the very top, like rank nine up where the antechamber is, and I could not find the freaking breaker room. And it was like, dude, if I can just find this, I can solve this puzzle. And I just was getting quite perturbed because it was like, come on!
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And then my next four runs, guess what I get? I get the dark room and the breaker room, but I can't find freaking magnifying glass anywhere. I'm running out of steps. Like, this is... All that to say that there will absolutely be some frustration in this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
It is how the game is built, and I have not talked to a single person that has not gotten frustrated over the RNG aspects of these roguelike elements in this game. Now,
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I will say when I finally got the three, the perfect combo of three things that I needed, it unlocked a very like big discovery for me, which was one of these permanent progression type things where I'm like, I just figured out the combination to this thing and I can finally open it. And I got a big permanent progression reward from it. And I went, okay, cool. That was awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And for anybody else that might be considering it, we only exist because of the support from our listeners. I don't know if people know this, but there's a pretty good bit of expenses that go into hosting D&D. a podcast, websites, you know, the games that we cover and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Like that was awesome. I'm still angry that it took me that long to, to work it out, you know, through no fault of my own. but at least it was very rewarding to finally go, okay, sweet. I've been trying to solve this puzzle for a while now. And then you finally do. And it's, again, it gives you some big reveal or something like that. So, all right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I have a very big problem where RNG affects my skill in the game. Like I have this with like Hearthstone. I've mentioned this before, but I love Hearthstone because it's like, I like card based games and strategy. But when I don't get a good draw after refreshing the tavern like six times and it's just like not one of the creatures that I'm trying to do like pops up, that's just bad RNG.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And then now I suck because it's like I just got hit by bad RNG. That infuriates me, dude. It really does. I hate it so much, man. So I don't want that to affect my game, but I'm a gambler. I'm like, yeah, this is perfect for you. You don't care. Okay. So, you know, we're running out of time quickly. I don't know how we're so far into this already.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
So, you know, you start to make these discoveries. You make your way to the antechamber.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
the game is not over i'm not going to spoil anything there but you know it was funny watching ryan get very very excited because he was like one way from the antechamber and then i just laughed to myself and i was like oh this is the rng man you know um you know but this game does a good job of giving you that big reveal that that nice sense of progression when you finally do solve a puzzle
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
there are multiple things in rooms that I've never came across ever again. Like, you know, there's a freezer room that had a note that was frozen in ice and some other stuff. And I was like, dude, what's in that note. It's really bugging me. I want to know, but apparently I have to thaw this room out and then come back to it later on.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I never got that room offered to me ever again, like ever again, dude. So it's like, there's just things where it's like, again, the RNG is going to come into play and you're not going to find things. Um, You know, I think this is the weird question to me because this is a puzzle game that has puzzles in it. And you are trying to solve this goal of getting to room 46.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And the game does throw these puzzles at you. But a lot of times they're just like, did you observe something the right way? You know, did you did you think about using this item in that room? And if you do, maybe you'll figure something out. I kept waiting because the game even talks about this in the very beginning where it says forge your own path.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
So if you are so inclined to be a part of that, there is a link in the episode description that you can click that will take you right to that option. And you can be a hero amongst the world like Jagged Sun, You Meet in a Tavern, and many, many others. And then, Ryan, we made a promise. We're catching up on these reviews.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Maybe you will realize that you don't need to be beholden to the world around you and all that. And I kept waiting for this moment of revelation where I was like, guys... if I don't have to like, I can walk through the doors backwards, you know, maybe that's the key, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Like I kept waiting for some kind of revelation, like in the very, and I'll say this in the very front entrance room that you start every game in, the floor is very reflective. And at one point I went like,
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Dude, I bet if I look in the reflection of the floor, I'll see something that I couldn't see in the game, and that's going to give something away, which would have been awesome, except it doesn't do that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Maybe there's a back door. So I... There's a part of me that's a little disappointed because this game could have gone all of these different paths and it didn't. But at the same time, I found myself just wanting to do run after run after run. And even when I paused and I was getting frustrated, it was like, I want to go back to this game, dude. I want to find out what the heck is in room 46.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
What's in that antechamber? How do I get there? I came across it in one run, but the doors were locked. Well, how do I open the doors? That kind of thing. So there is enough mystery in this game. That it really kept me driven to say, I want to figure this stuff out. Now, I get that people would get frustrated and just go, forget this game, dude. It's not worth it. It's not worth it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Which is, Ace, I know is exactly what happened with you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Oh, no. It is a chill, tranquil game, dude. Like this is not action based. It is a it is a chill experience. That's for sure.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
There is a story in this game. It kind of gives you history into your family and the estate and some of the things that your family has done in the past. And you're kind of piecing together pieces of like your uncle and your other uncle and your mom and your childhood and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
You discover these things through letters that you can come across sometimes by solving a puzzle or a combination or something like that. Your reward is a letter that kind of furthers the story along a little bit. I'll be honest. I didn't care about any of this. I don't know who this family is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I don't really care that the mom read the kid a book or, you know, something like that, unless it was a clue to solve another puzzle. So these people that said like blueprints tells one of the most gripping stories I've ever seen in a video game. Like I want to know what you're on because it didn't pay that for me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I mean, there is a story there that you piece together, but again, the story for me was not the draw on this game. So yeah, All right, so that's how this game plays. That's what you're looking at if you decide to jump into Blueprints. What worked for you and what didn't work for you in this game?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
We have two more we're going to read, and you've got one, I believe, that you're going to start us off with, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
That's, I mean, that's a great analogy to be honest with you. I can't go anywhere and I can't do anything this time. Sorry. You had bad luck. You're not escaping.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
at least it gives you two other pathways to go that's very true you get two other doors what didn't work for you on this and then what did work for you
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
My biggest complaint is the RNG in this game, 100%. I mean, it is frustrating. It is unfair at times. It will slow your progression in this game. I mean, there are other things I would have liked to have done, like figure out the freezer room, for instance, but I never got the freezer room ever again. Yeah. So the RNG for me is the real, real kick in the pants in this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
The other thing, and I kind of touched on this, is I feel like there's just a lot of empty rooms in this game. And I feel like that's wasted opportunity. There's a room that's called the spare room. And you walk in and there's a ladder. They're painting the room. There's some stuff in there. And it's like...
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
It would have been so cool if there was some reveal later on in the game that went like, you walked past this a hundred times and you didn't even realize it. Because that's kind of what Outer Wilds does, right? Outer Wilds rewards you with that, you didn't know you could do this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I got the treasure map, but it was not pointing to the spare room. Unless you have to have that as you walk through the room.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I think it's specific to the spot on the grid, though, because I got the treasure map a couple times.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
That's my point. Then there's no shovel.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So RNG ruins it for me. I will say what I like about this game is it really just continues to draw you in. I mean, the fact that I'm willing to overcome all this RNG and frustration to continue playing this game and to make progress and to get closer to unlocking room 46. And hey, I never saw this room before. Let me check this out. I can combine items in this room.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Dude, that's what we're trying to do.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Well, that's kind of cool. but I never found two items that I could combine, you know, that kind of stuff. Ryan, the room you found, you found some reactor room. And I was like, I've never seen this room in my life, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
So I just, I feel like there's some wasted opportunity in this game as well to where it's like, you know, I think they could have truly made this one of the absolute greats in the, in the puzzle genre. And I feel like they whiffed just a little bit. You know, as far as things that could have done to really make you look back and go like, oh, my gosh, how did I not realize that? So. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Legitimately, I mean, we just got done talking about, hey, people can support this podcast to help this keep going. But ultimately, we talk about video games because we love video games. And the hope is that somehow, some way, we can make your day just a little bit better. If you're driving to work right now, listening to our super smooth voices on your radio or on your AirPods. So true. Smooth.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
We're running low on time, guys. Final thoughts on this game. I mean, if you rate it on a scale of one to ten, what your thoughts on this game are and whether you would recommend people to pick it up. Ace, we're going to start with you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I'll disagree with you a little bit there. I think you do learn. I think you learn what's in a room. I think you learn, hey, there's something in this room that I have to discover kind of thing. I mean, I will say like even in the failed runs, I think you sometimes do learn something. It might not be what you want to learn.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
But then again, I had 20 runs in a row where I learned absolutely nothing and I almost quit playing this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
So, yeah, that's my take. It sounds like I've complained about this game a lot, but I want people to know what you're getting yourself into. Honestly, that is the thing. This game will frustrate you. Just plain and simple. I think that's most puzzle games in general, though, is you're getting stuck on a puzzle that you can't figure out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Or was this an internet frenzy that didn't quite match the game itself? Well, we're about to find out because we've played it and we're here to let you know what we think. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh, and joining me... He loves the title screen and the intro screen, but he's not sure what all the other fuss is about. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
The problem with this game is you're not getting stuck on a puzzle you can't figure out. You're getting stuck on the game mechanics. You're getting stuck on the roguelike elements. You're getting stuck on the RNG part of it. You are not getting stuck on this brain bending puzzle that you can't just quite wrap your head around, you know, kind of thing. And so that frustrates me more.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I like to think the witness, I think, is one of the best puzzle games ever made. And it gives you 50 different types of puzzles that. you know, that come at you in all directions and different ways of solving things, whereas Blueprints does not. The frustration in this game simply lies in the game mechanics itself. I think it's a fantastic game. I am going to say that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I think this game is really top-notch. I loved the experience with it. I was enthralled with it, even in my frustration. I felt driven to keep trying to make these discoveries and figure out what's going on and make it to room 46 and that sort of stuff. I like that they had some outside areas. I like that I found things I'd never found in a run before.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Sometimes they were a little disappointing because I was like, I don't even know what this is for. I kind of know what I need to do now. So how does this come into play? And that kind of thing. But... All the negative things aside, I think this game is great, dude. I am going to rate it like an 8.5 legitimately. I think it's very enjoyable. I think it's very unique.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I do not think that this is like the Mount Rushmore of puzzle games that I have heard a lot of people talk about. It is a very good puzzle game. If you were in the mood for one, Blueprints will absolutely scratch that itch. I liked the roguelike elements to a degree. I think they probably could use some fine tuning.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
You don't need four different RNG elements in your game that all have to line up together. Two is probably fine. So there is that complaint. But overall, Blueprints is a really, really strong puzzle game. It is memorable. It's beautiful in its own right. You just have to be willing to put up with the frustration of it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And we have seen a lot of people that are doing that, and they're like, dude, I'm past the frustrating part. This game's got its hooks in me. I'm loving it. I want to see what's at the end. And we've seen that from a lot of people. But again, just know what you're getting yourself into.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
But I think that's people. I mean, to be fair, Ace, on social media, I've seen people say, dude, I saw the hype. I bought in. I tried this game. I don't get it, man. This game is dumb. And that's why we always try to explain what a game is like to people. We always give our opinion on it, but at the same time, we try to explain it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Because if you are somebody that is easily put off by frustration and RNG, this game may not be for you. If you're willing to slog through it, then you probably will find the appeal of this game. And there is obviously some kind of mass appeal because look at the review scores and things like that. There is some kind of magic to it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
It is just for me, not that Outer Wilds, The Witness, Anti-Chamber, Portal 2 type magic.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
It's close-ish magic. You know what I mean? Like when, when, when people say recommend me a puzzle game, I'm going to name those other four or five games first before I mentioned blueprints, but blueprints is probably up there in like the top five or six for me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, listen, guys, that's going to do it for this one. Check it out. It's on Game Pass. That's one of the nice things. I'm just counting down the days until Expedition 33. This episode comes out Monday. Expedition 33 comes out Thursday. You guys will not see me for... probably four days. You're going to disappear for a while. We're all prepared.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Fantastic dude. One of the best humans I have ever met in my life. And so thank you, aka Wallaby, for leaving us a review. And it is titled Best Gaming Podcast. And it says, Phenomenal pod for anyone who loves games. The hosts are passionate, fun, and bring a great mix of news, deep dives, and discussions. Whether you're into retro classics or new releases, there's something here for everyone.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I've prepped everybody, man. I've prepped my family. I'm prepping my friends. I'm prepping my job. I'm just like, dude, Josh doesn't exist for like three days after that. Let's hope that game lives up to the hype, man, because...
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
so all right listen everybody thank you for for hanging out with us talking blueprints if you want to support the show it means the world to us it helps this podcast continue on there's a link in the episode description that you can click to support the show if you are not in our discord server and part of our community it is the best gaming community on the planet we have people joining every single day it is i mean i think we're close to if not over a thousand gamers strong we're almost there
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Zero toxicity, zero judgmental people. I mean, just gamers that love talking games together. We do community nights. We play games together and have fun. I know there's people that are like, oh, that all sounds too good to be true. It's not. It actually does exist. Come join us. Hang out. You'll see for yourself.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And last thing real quick, if you're listening on your podcast app, make sure you click that follow button, that plus button, whatever it is that just says, hey, I want to follow the show and get their episodes the day that they release. It definitely helps out the show as well. So that's it for this one, everybody. Until next time, happy gaming. See ya. Peace out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
The production quality is top notch. Two thumbs way up. Yeah. That's six thumbs now, guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
You know, that's the beauty. We've never said, hey, we're experts. We're just people that have been playing games for, you know, four years. 40 plus years for me? Ryan, not that long. And Ace, probably like, I don't know, 60 years for Ace. Well, he's getting up there. Oh, man. All right. Well, that's it for the housekeeping, guys. Let's talk about a blue prince.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I mean, I kind of already prefaced this with the hype and what people were saying. But what I really like kind of doing this is I was the one that I think really kind of got rolled up in that hype, you know, and I think I was the one that reached out to you guys and I said, hey, I'm going to pick this game up. I'm going to play it. Should we talk about this? Is anybody else interested in it?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And then Ace and Ryan, you guys both went like, yeah, yeah, I'll absolutely play it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
and then both you clowns didn't play it for like four days while you guys were playing marvel rivals while i'm being a good video game podcast host and i'm cracking out on blueprints and then i kind of went hey guys like how's blueprints going and you guys were like we don't know but rivals is going really well and then i went like are we covering this game or what you know and then
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
To your credit, you both buckled down and you guys both played the game. Ryan, I don't know that I've seen a marathon session like you had yesterday. What a turnaround. Right? It was impressive.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
But I will say from my point of view, it was pretty hilarious because you kept sharing screenshots and then you would post like your run that you had in this game and how you made it close to what you thought was the antechamber.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
and then it was like i was just laughing because it's like well i know things you don't know about yeah so yeah um this is a good place to say listen we're gonna try to keep things spoiler free in the beginning of this episode so that we can kind of just talk about the game and give people you know an idea of what this game is if we get into any kind of deep spoilers we'll do that later and we'll definitely warn people as well because i think this is a game that
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
You don't want to have parts of it spoiled for you, but we will be talking about things like the different rooms that you can encounter. Some of the puzzles you come across, nothing game changing discovery type stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
So we'll try not to spoil anything like that, but just be aware by the nature of us talking about this, we're going to have to talk about some of the mechanics of the game and things that you come across there too. So. What was y'all's hype level for this? I mean, this came out of nowhere. We didn't really have a chance to build up a ton of hype on this. So I just want to start off.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And Ace, I'm going to go to you because I feel like you are the most down out of the three of us on this game. And I just don't know if it's like, do you not like puzzle games?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I need things in 45 second increments or I can't.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Tell me where to go. Where do I go? What do I do? So you were not excited for this then, Ace. Is that fair to say?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
I was easily the most excited about this. Again, I kind of already mentioned it, so I won't rehash it a lot, but I was definitely in the mood for a puzzle game at the time. It had been a long time since I had played one. I'm going to admit it, man. I'm a sucker for hype, like legitimately. We always say we're gamers, right? Gamers, sometimes gamers get caught up in hype.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Sometimes they get caught up in the hype. the downside of like this game came out and everybody's saying it sucks. And then I kind of go like, oh man, that really sucks. So yes, I admittedly am, you know, susceptible to that stuff. So when I start hearing people comparing this game to Outer Wilds, which is one of my favorite games,
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
and Portal 2, and The Witness, which I think is one of the best puzzle games ever made, my ears perk up like big time, you know? And so I was definitely the most hyped out of the three of us on this. I dove in, I mean, the day this game released, I was rushing home to come play it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
So same amount. We are both sitting at 14 hours. So Ryan, Ryan did absolutely play this game an awful lot. Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
You know, we talk about it, but it's like, you know, Expedition 33 is coming up very soon, man. Very soon. And it's like, do you know how sometimes you're just in the mood for a certain kind of game? And I am so in the mood for a turn-based epic RPG right now that it's like I can barely contain myself.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And it just so happened that Blueprints hit right at that time where I was like, dude, I could really go for a puzzle game. Sometimes that's not the case, Ace, where you're like, dude, I don't want to freaking play this game, man. Why do I got to play this puzzle game right now? This podcast is stupid, man. Why do I got to do this?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So let's do our best, guys. I want this to be a group effort on this one because there's people out there that are saying, Blueprints, it's a puzzle game. What the heck do you do? What is this game? How do you describe this game?
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
So I was like, I ain't taking this on. We're all jumping in here.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Ace is like, oh man, is it me? Am I the guy that didn't play this game? Yeah. Well, we're going to find out because joining us, you'll find him asking chat GPT how to tell which box is true and which is false. And he never knew dartboard math could be so hard. It's ace.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, so the overarching goal of the game is to find this fabled room 46. Find that room, find the secret room. You know, your uncle says, hey, I'm giving you my estate. Now, here's the thing. This estate changes every day, but your goal is to find room 46. If you do, you inherit everything with this estate and all that comes with it. Yep. So that is your goal. Now...
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
The game starts you off in a foyer, this big entryway to this mansion. And then there are three doors in front of you that you can walk through, basically. And every time you pick a door in this game... to open, you are faced with a choice of three rooms to draft. So you are picking the room that you want to be behind that doorway.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
And so, you know, in the beginning, you just kind of go, cool, well, I'll pick this room because I don't know what anything is. And then so you get faced with a choice. Yeah, parlor, billiard hall, closet, bedroom, kitchen,
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, you get that stupid closet. Storage room, parlor, boudoir. All of a sudden you're like, oh, wait, that's new. So the basic gameplay loop for this is open a door, pick a room, go into that room, look around, see if you can find things. Maybe there's a puzzle in that room. Maybe there's a clue. Maybe there's something very cryptic in that room that you have no idea what it is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
Maybe there's nothing in that room and you spend entirely too long looking around that room for something because you're like, well, the game is tricking me because why would they just give me an empty room? And then you're like, oh, wait, this room actually is empty. There's nothing to do in it. Yeah. And as you go through that room.
Video Gamers Podcast
Blue Prince: All Hype or All-Timer? - Gaming Podcast
There's probably a door at the end of that room, unless it's a dead end, that now leads to more rooms. And so you draft one room from those. And like you said, Ryan, you kind of start to fill in this nine by five grid. You find rooms that you haven't found before. You find new rooms that, you know, oh, I've never seen this room before. So let me pick this one. Let me look around it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Does this kid not know how to wear proper size jeans? And I was just like, you guys don't know. These are super cool, man. This is what's going on right now. Funny thing is, JNCOs are actually making a comeback, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
tony hawks put perfect balance on and all those crazy ones but it's just you you don't not only do i not even think about it like i just don't even think like you said they exist anymore i think we call them mods i think yeah just mods now basically you know uh i think the world's most famous cheat code now you might be a little too young for this ryan but contra oh so do you remember that it's called the konami code
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
It's burned into my brain forever, dude. I would be 97 years old and still able to... It's up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, start. It's just... I mean, it's there forever. Forever. Exactly. And it was the cheat code that gave you 30 lives in Contra versus three. And even with those 30 lives, you probably still weren't beating Contra because that game was hard.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
But cheat codes, it was really neat because people have to remember, this was the days before the internet. So how does somebody find out what a cheat code? You can't just go on Google and be like Contra cheat code because Google didn't exist back then.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
you know so like the really neat thing was you would be at school and like it kind of like the switch to release that we were just talking about where like word spreads like wildfire oh yeah yeah yeah you know it would be like you'd hear this murmur and then it'd be like dude dude did you hear you can get 30 lives in contra and you're like what how dude there's a cheat code what?
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Games come and go, consoles are born and die, franchises may take over the world and then fade into obscurity, but the memories we make from gaming will last a lifetime. Sometimes it's fun to think back about what used to be, and that's exactly what we're doing on this episode.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
What do you mean there's a Chica? What is it? It's up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, start. And then you're like, okay, wait a minute, slow down. Let me write this down, you know? And nobody would write it. You would just draw arrows. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Arrows left, arrows left, you know? And it was like, and then you'd run home after school.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
You'd put, you know, you'd throw in Contra in there. You'd put, and sure enough, and it would go boop, boop, boop. And then there would be like 30 lives. And you're like, oh my gosh, you worked.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, because they were awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
It was also the worst when somebody would tell you Chico and then it wouldn't work. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because they got like either one thing wrong or it was just, you know, it just wasn't right. And you just keep trying it and you're like, come on. And then you'd get frustrated. You'd be like, dang it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Oh, yeah. Yep. Yeah. You just keep trying it until it like threatens to lock you out. And then you're like, Oh, maybe I'll just request this password reset instead. So, all right, listen, we're going to take a quick break and then we're coming back. We're going to talk about midnight releases, Ryan. Oh yeah. We'll be back in just a second. All right, Ryan, we are back.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And dude, I don't know that there is a moment in gaming that gets you more excited than a midnight release of a game. And I know for a lot of people that they've never experienced this, that they're going like, huh? Like, what's so big about that? You got to understand when a major game was getting released and they did a midnight release game,
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Well, welcome in, everybody, to the Video Gamers Podcast. Thank you for joining us. I am so excited for this episode. It's been a little while since we've kind of done a, I don't want to say a retro, but maybe like an episode that talks about gaming back in the day, as far as that goes. So if you are over the age of, eh,
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Game Stop would stay open or whatever your game store was at the time would stay open to midnight. All those poor employees would have to stay the entire day or come back. And it was usually in a mall.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And the mall would not normally stay open that late, but now the mall is open and it's like everything's closed down, except you'd see this traffic of people all walking through this almost abandoned mall, walking towards the GameStop. And you would round a corner and there would be 100 people waiting in line at a closed GameStop. And the excitement in the air was bananas, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Everybody was there for the exact same thing. You guys were there to pick up this game. The excitement for that game was unreal. It was such a good time to be a gamer because... You were with your people, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
it's the really neat thing too. And I remember this vividly, dude, I can remember a few times where I still have these memories like burned into my brain. One of them was red dead to red dead redemption too. That's actually the last midnight release that, that I went to. So that was seven years ago.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And so it doesn't seem like that long, you know, but I legitimately remember waiting in line for red dead redemption to, to pick this game up. And it's exactly what you said. I was so excited. I got home and, It used to be that you could just come home with the game, pop it in, and play it right away.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
But Red Dead Redemption 2, I remember coming home and it was like, this game must perform an update. 98 gigabytes remaining. Estimated time, like two hours. And I was like, no! And then you try to go to bed because it's late. And then you're like, all your brain's doing is being like, maybe it's going to install early. Maybe you'll be able to play.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I freaking loved it. The other thing that was really neat about the Midnight releases is as you're standing in line, you're talking to the people around you and they're so excited for the game too. I can't remember which Halo it was, but I do remember standing in line for a Halo release. Probably three. And it was just that, it probably was three.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And it was just that like, dude, you're going to be able to fly a Banshee in this one. And you're like, what? Like, really? And they're like, dude, I heard, man, you're going to actually be able to fly a Banshee or you're going to be able to play as an Arbiter. And you're like, no, man, no, that would be the coolest thing ever.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
you know 25 let's say yeah this is gonna be right up your alley and if you're under the age of 25 we promise stick with us you're gonna have a good time you're gonna listen to old people reminisce about the the some of the best parts of gaming and it'll give you insight into that kind of og as we like to call them gamer brains learn your history fun Yeah, exactly.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And it would just be like those conversations where you're just hyping the game up. You're talking about like the things you've heard about this game or what's going to be doable or, you know, the multiplayer part of it and all that stuff, man. And.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
It was better than Christmas sometimes. It was. Because you'd see people just running, man. They were so excited to have it in their hands. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, it's just so great, man. It's weird because I certainly don't want to stand in line at midnight anymore, but that is one of those things I actually miss as a gamer.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
All right. What's up for you, Ryan?
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
People don't understand either because nowadays like almost every game comes with a tutorial kind of built into it. Yeah. And so they're like, what did you guys need game manuals for? But these game manuals were, were really in depth.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And a lot of times they were almost like works of art in and of themselves, because it's like you said, like sometimes they would introduce you to the characters and have like little write-ups like you're playing as, you know, Mario, you know, you know, or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And it would give you like a bio on Mario, a bio on peach and, and you know, Luigi or whatever the game was that you were playing. And like a lot of times there was art or screenshots from the game in the manuals as well. And then the other cool thing was like you said, the controls, right? Because the manual would actually tell you how to play the game, but you didn't know. Like, that's the thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Like you'd be like, wait a minute, dude, I can triple jump. You didn't know that, but the manual's like, now to triple jump, press A, followed by A, followed by A. What? No way. And then you get home, and the first thing you do would be like, I want to see this triple jump, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Ryan is showing me a Metal Gear Solid manual for the original PlayStation.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Oh, it's got the button mapping on there that explains all the buttons. It's got the characters' names in it. It's got the background. Yeah, see the art and stuff? Oh, the prologue, so you know what's going on before you... Like we talk about anticipation, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Like this is for people that never understood the joy of like a game manual on the ride home with your game was imagine you ordered, let's say a brand new computer monitor, right? And you're waiting for it. You've ordered it from Amazon and you get the notification that it's like your item has shipped.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Dude, that anticipation before it shows up, the number of times you check that tracking number to see what city it's in, that's the same exact feeling that you would get from these game manuals while you were driving home. It was always in the backseat. Your mom or your dad was driving you, and you're just engrossed in this thing, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Learn your gaming history, youngsters. But stick with us because it's going to be fun. Ryan, as we like to do at the start of episodes, we like to read a review. We always say, hey, if you enjoy the podcast and you've been listening for a while or this is your first time joining us and you get to the end of this episode, you're like, dude. All right, fellas, like that wasn't bad.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that is actually a myth. Oh, man. I did see, and I think it was, I got to give credit to Mobox on our Discord server. Yes, yeah. Was actually bought, like found an artist that like recreated a bunch of these game manuals from days, you know, gone. Not the game, but the, you know, days long ago.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
People are like, Days Gone? That's a weird game to have a manual for. And it was actually really neat. And so there are people out there that definitely appreciate kind of the history of the old game manual there. Ryan, this is where I actually thought you were going when you were talking about the excitement of a new game. Yeah. Dude, was there anything better in life than a Friday night?
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
You get out of school, you go home, you don't smell anything cooking. You're like, hey, mom and dad, hey, what's going on? And they're like, hey, get ready. We're going to go to Blockbuster. Do you want to rent a game for this weekend? We're going to pick up some pizza on the way home. Dude, perfect night. Perfect Friday night. What else can you want?
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And then you would just... You would be so excited and your parents would take you to Blockbuster or whatever the store was. Where I lived, we had West Coast Video. I remember that was like the big chain store where I was. But you'd walk in and you always knew where the game section was. Your parents would split off. They didn't care about you at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
They're going to find a movie they want to watch. And just... a gigantic wall of nothing but video games, you know, and you had to find your console, you know, it'd be like, you know, Nintendo PlayStation. Unfortunately for me, I had the teeny little section that said Sega, you know, but you, you just, you'd have the game boxes, man. And you'd flip them over.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And again, you didn't know what you were getting yourself into. And so you, you pick up a box that looked cool. This is when cover art really mattered. Yes. Because it would catch your eye. They had to get your attention because back in the day, again, this was before reviews. This was before the internet, you know, and it was like, if they didn't get your attention, you just skim right past it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And the picking up the box and the reading the back and being like, oh man, am I in the mood for a platform? This looks kind of cool. Yeah. Oh, what's this one? A racing game. Hmm. Do I want to play a racing game this weekend? Nah. Oh, a fighter. Okay. Yeah. Let's do that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Or it was a release that you knew was coming out and you would run to that section. There's the one copy left. Yeah, it was the one copy left because if it had the box behind it, you knew that it was in stock. The worst feeling in the world was just seeing 20 boxes of something and then no boxes behind it. And then what would you do, Ryan?
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
If it was really a game you wanted and the boxes weren't on the shelf, what was the one thing that you would do right after that?
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
absolutely every time yeah you'd be like um excuse me uh has anybody returned uh halo two and they'd be like oh let me check you know and then they'd start digging through and half the time it was like no sorry sorry but every now and then you'd see them open it up clip it and they'd be like oh yeah here's one and you were just like yes
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
You know, then think about leaving us a review. If you're on Spotify, you can rate us five stars. If you're on Apple, you can actually leave us a written review, which we love to read on the show. Like this one that comes in from Save the Turtles. And it's titled, I freaking love you guys. This is the best podcast ever. And it says, okay, first things first, best podcast ever.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
It really is. The main thing was you don't ever, ever return that game late. Yeah. At least in my family. Dude, if you forgot that that game was due back, because you always got two days, right? Yeah. Like you got a Friday night and Saturday and it had to be back. I don't know. Like, was it Saturday night or Sunday? I don't remember. It's been a while.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
But it was like, if you forgot to turn that game and your parents account got a late fee slapped on it. Boy, were you in trouble then?
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I miss those days, dude. My brain just went into some insanely happy place right there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Everything. You take your console. You take your controller because you don't want to use your buddy's nasty controller that he might have laying around. Mad cats. What?
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Dude, LAN parties – we just talked about LAN parties the other day. Yeah. It's like – but this really deserves a moment because – Got to mention, yeah. Yeah, because it's one of those things that's hard to describe to people. And again, everybody can play games on the internet together. And it's like, that's great. It's convenient.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I'm not saying I don't really appreciate the ease of which we can hop into a game together. We have Discord, so you can talk together easily and all that. But And again, there's something different when you had to plan it, number one. And it's like, oh, dude, dude, did you hear Ryan's coming? He's bringing his game or console. And then Paul's coming. And you would start firing off names.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And it's like, wait, we're going to have like eight guys playing? All at once? Yeah. You'd move like you'd actually like rearrange the furniture in a room so people could set up everything, dude. You'd have your own little like command station where it's like you had your monitor, your console, your seat, your snacks next to you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
The game would fire up and you'd look around the room like, all right, everybody good? Everybody good? Like, yeah, all right, man, let's do this. It is just matches. And then you'd be talking trash to your buddy that's across the room from you. So-and-so would be... Don't look at my screen, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
It really is hard to describe to people the amount of joy and fun that you have when you are with your buddies playing this game in the same room together. And you had to plan it, was the other thing. There's something to be said for reaching out to all your friends and saying, hey, man, you guys want to come over? You want to have a LAN party? And so-and-so is like, oh, man, I can't.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
My parents are doing this or whatever. But when you get that group together and people would start showing up, like you're
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
doorbell would ring you open up the door there's your buddy standing there holding his console in his hands like trying to teeter everything like dude come on in man like just oh there was something about it man uh ryan we're running a little low on time on this one uh a couple quick hitters maybe on this the the days of the old strategy guide Oh, yeah. Now, I will say this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I was not a huge strategy guy person. I just played the games and I kind of figured them out. But there was a day when you could not just Google the answer to something or the solution to a puzzle or which person you were supposed to go talk to to get this quest or hand it in or where to find this item. And what was your option?
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Freaking love you guys. I love video games. I like that you talk about video games and it's just great. I love it so much. And I think you should be really proud of this podcast. I think everyone will love this. Even my little brother, not really little, but he loves video games. maybe at a game with turtles in it, that would be great. I haven't listened to all your podcasts yet, but all of them.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, or that had a strategy guy who had already beaten the game. And you're like, dude, where the heck do I find this armor? And he'd be like, well, dude, did you go over here? And you're like... Like, okay. But the strategy guides were awesome because they were made for the game. And again, they were almost like works of art. Like they had screenshots of almost every screen in the game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
You know, like little arrows pointing towards, hey, if you jump here, there's an invisible coin box that you can get. And it really just kind of laid everything out for you. And the nice thing was, is that because it kind of went from like the beginning of the game to the end of the game, you didn't wind up like spoiling anything for yourself either.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Which was really nice. So you could kind of just turn into the guide where you wanted and kind of figure out and then just put it to the side and be like, oh, okay, cool. But a lot of times they'd include cheat codes. Yeah. You know, and they'd say, hey, if you're playing this game, like watch out for the guy that's going to pop up behind you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
But then at the bottom of the page, it would be like cheat code and be like, you can get this item or this weapon or extra lives or something like that. And it really just, it added that layer to games that is awesome. Now, again, I'm a little bit older than you, Ryan. And so before strategy guides got really popular, if you got stuck in a game, you had zero option except for one thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And that one thing was an old... I don't remember if it was 800 number... I think it was 1-900, if I remember right, because you knew you had to pay, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
But you could call... Now, famously, Nintendo is the most famous for this. You could call a Nintendo game counselor. And there was a whole show on this, dude, that was awesome to watch. And you could call this 1-900 number. And a real live human would pick up because we didn't have these phone answering things back then. And push two. A person would pick up. And say like, hey, my name's Jeff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I'm a Nintendo game counselor. What can I help you with? And you'd be like, hey, Jeff, I'm playing Final Fantasy and I don't know where to find this thing, you know? And then Jeff would be like, oh, awesome, dude. Final Fantasy is such a good game. Where are you stuck at? And they were just like, they were people that like... You thought they knew these games inside and out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And it was the most amazing. You felt like you were talking to the professor of Nintendo.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, legitimately, because there was not a question they could not answer.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
There was a little bit of awe. I'm not going to lie. Sega had one, too. I had a Sega. And I remember playing Phantasy Star and getting very, very stuck trying to find this underground dungeon thing that I needed to progress for the game. And maybe I was just dumb and I missed clues to it or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And I remember very vividly begging my parents to say, Mom, Dad, it'll only take about five minutes. And it was like a buck a minute, dude. Yeah. Back in the 80s was a lot of money. Yeah, that's a lot of money. And I remember begging them and begging them to let me do this. And they finally said, okay. And it was the exact same experience. It was some person picked up.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
So I'm just writing this review to tell you guys this is amazing. And don't forget to save those turtles.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
They were like, hey, my name is so-and-so. What are you stuck on? Or what can I help you with? And I was like, hey, I'm playing Phantasy Star. And they're like, oh, great.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
great game man and i was like yeah i'm really liking it but like i cannot find this dungeon and it was neat because it was a conversation they'd be like okay well where are you at and i'm like oh well i'm on the second planet and i'm right outside of this town and they'd be like okay you're trying to find this dungeon i'm like yeah and like okay well do you know where this is and i'd be like yeah yeah and they'd like go there i'm like okay and you have a little pen and paper you write this down because it's you know it's costing you money yeah and they're like okay and they're like go to here
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Stand right outside the gate. Now go five blocks to the left. And you're like, okay. Go three blocks down. Okay. Now go seven blocks left again. Okay. Now go two blocks up. And they're like, okay. And then press B. And you're like, okay, cool. And then you hang up the phone real quick before like another minute rolls by.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And then you just run to your system and then you finally got it figured out and it worked. Oh, dude. Best money ever. Peak gaming, man. Peak gaming. And then Ryan, you brought up this one and this one made me chuckle.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
you know the internet exists we've we've moved we fast forwarded to the future you know we've got dial up internet buddy oh man dude you can play with your friends now you get that little squelchy squealy sound when the modem connects i was gonna say i'm gonna i'll try to throw in that audio so so the younger younger crew if they haven't heard it they can hear it It's so good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
That's awesome. I love turtles, number one. Turtles have always been, dude, I've always been a turtle guy. Especially when they're teenagers. Especially the teenage mutant.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Every person that grew up with the dawn of the internet knows this sound. You can hear it right now in your head. But Ryan... Maybe you're playing Doom with your buddies. You've managed to connect to each other's computers. What is the absolute worst thing that could happen to you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Now, the worst part was, in your game, you could hear Grandma talking. That's the part that people don't understand. It wasn't like just getting disconnected, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
No, dude. It was the worst. Where'd Ryan go? Oh, he's gone. Oh, no. And it was not easy to reconnect at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
It was the rarest thing, dude. It was like finding a unicorn. But if somebody picked up the phone and knew that you were playing and hung up the phone within, I think it literally had to be within the first second.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Like it sometimes would not disconnect you, but you just were waiting for it, waiting for it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I'm good to go. There was nothing like yelling up or down the stairs that was like, I'm playing!
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. What an awesome review, though. Thank you, Save the Turtles. Yeah, absolutely. And then... You know, we we don't like to get sappy too often on this show because we know people are here for the gaming chat. But we we just wanted to just say thank you. You know, like we've been doing this show for a while now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Oh. And then what was the thing when call waiting started to come around? You had to dial something to shut down call waiting because call waiting would actually interrupt your thing for a second. Oh, I think that is. Yes, you had to do like star. It wasn't star 69 because that was the call back the number, but it was like star 40 or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
where it would actually turn off the call waiting part so that it wouldn't disconnect you even then. It would just give them a busy signal.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I'm telling you, man. People don't know how good they got it nowadays.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Back in my day, I had to ride my bike 10 miles to Blockbuster to hope that they had it in stock, to beg the guy at the counter to find it, to then ride home with it with one hand on my bike because I got to hold the cartridge in one hand while I ride home on the other one. And then hope that my brother's not playing something on the TV. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
It does make me wonder. I legitimately thought this, right? What are the memories that gamers are going to have from their... My kids are 14 and 17 now, and they've been gaming for a while.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
So it's like when they're 40... What's the thing they're going to be like, dude, when we were gamers, my dad would have to reset the router sometimes. Yeah, can you imagine? I'd be lagging and I'd say, dad, can you reset the router? I don't know what it's going to be.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I legitimately wonder because like we joke, right? And this is definitely like a kind of trip down memory lane episode. But every generation of gamers is going to have its memories and its things that stand out to them. Yeah. And it really does make me wonder like what those things are going to be, you know, for our kids. Where they think back and they're like, dude, I remember the days.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Maybe it's just the games themselves at this point because the technology has kind of advanced. I will say, I think the first time putting on a VR headset would be up there. I'm sure. I do remember my kids. I was like, we got a Quest. And I'm like, check this out. And there was the demo where the giant T-Rex walks over them. And they were like, oh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
so i do think there's going to be those kind of like mind-blowing uh like memories that they have i just i it's it's really exciting to me to kind of try to like jump forward 20 years yeah what's what's it gonna be i mean even more recently i remember you know this isn't when in my youth and stuff but like i remember when i got um the little wireless internet card for uh
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, well, if you are of the younger generation at this point, you know what? Come tell us. You've got to have memories at this point. Come join us. Hop into our Discord server. The link is in the episode description. It's an awesome community.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
We would love to hear what some gaming memories that you have are, or maybe some things that you're like, dude, I can't believe you guys didn't mention this. And then we'd love to reminisce with you as well. Or like I said, if you're a little bit younger, what stands out to you at this point as well? But our community is awesome. It's family friendly. It's non-toxic.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
It is just the most incredible community that honestly exists on the internet. I can't I can't like stress that enough. And everybody that joins is like, whoa, you're right. This place is awesome. So make sure you join us in our Discord server. Again, that link is in the episode description. If you're not following us on socials, you can follow us at Video Gamers Pod.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And, you know, it's tough to number one, it's tough to just have a podcast in the world when there's 80 gajillion podcasts out there. You know, and anybody that figured out how to record audio on their phone is like, oh, I'm going to do a podcast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And you know, if you enjoyed this episode, make sure you follow this podcast. Open up your podcast app.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
right now unless you're driving didn't do it later click that follow button click that plus button the subscribe button whatever it is so that you get the video gamers podcast episodes the day they release and you can get excited along with us um ryan that's gonna do it for this episode thank you everybody for joining us man this was a fun one buddy i'm gonna i'm gonna cry about thinking how old i am now
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to order pizza, man. I'm going to order pizza tonight. That's it. My kids have access to any game in the world on Steam at this point. But we'll at least capture a little bit of that magic.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Maybe I'll do the same for them. But once again, thank you, everybody. We appreciate you. Thanks for joining us. And we will see you next time. And until then, happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And so it's very hard to do a podcast, number one, and then it's almost infinitely impossible to have people actually find your podcast and then tune in and then tell people about it. But... There's something happening, Ryan, that is happening in 2025. And it kind of started late 2024. But we are seeing legitimately something special, dude. And I know we say this a lot, but...
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
It is here. Like we have always used the snowball analogy and we've used that analogy for years where it's like, if you make a tiny little snowball and you push it downhill, it just kind of gets stuck. But if you get enough snow in that snowball, it will start rolling down the hill on its own and it gets bigger and bigger and bigger all on its own. And we've kind of lived by that analogy. Um,
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
We're going to be covering some of our favorite gaming trends that are now extinct. It'll be a trip down memory lane like no other, but first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh, and joining me, Beanie Babies, Pogs, and Jinkos may be gone from his life forever, but he'll never let go of his precious bandanas.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And we feel like the snowball is actually getting to the point where it's starting to get away from us a little bit. It's moving. We're reaching our arms out to try to keep pushing it, but it's really just picking up speed. And it's a dumb analogy, especially for dudes that live in the desert. But it is legitimately what is happening right now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
We are so humbled by the people in our community, by the people that tune into this podcast and the response that we get from that. People that write in, we get emails, we get people showing up on our Discord server that are just like, dude, I listen to you guys with my kids. I listen to you guys at the gym. You make my days better. I've been a gamer my whole life.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
It's awesome to find other gamers that aren't toxic and things like that. We get people that are like, dude, I'm a gamer, but I have no friends to play video games with. And it's like they joined the Discord server and now they have people to play games with. You do now. Yeah, exactly. And we're like, dude, nobody should ever have to play games alone if they don't want to play games alone.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
But the world's a tough place and it's hard to meet people sometimes. So we just wanted to take a minute. We're not going to gush over it. We're not going to get too sappy, but we really are... I mean, I think I'm more excited than I've ever been for the future of this podcast. And I know you are too. And it is really something special to see. There is something special happening.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I mean, we've always said we are just gamers. We're not industry people. But this podcast is at the level now that the big industry podcasts are kind of at and have had a stranglehold on. And we're just two dudes. We don't have editors and content creators and a crew of 20 people that are coming up with ideas. We don't have a recording studio. We don't have any of that stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And yet we're there with them. And it's very... It's just exciting to see. But at the same time, it's humbling for us. And one thing that we will always promise is we will always be gamers who appreciate gaming. We will always be honest. We will always love talking video games. And we will always be there for our community as well. Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
It blows my mind that we have people that join our Discord server and they're like, whoa, like you guys are here. And they tell us all the time, like, oh, I joined this other podcast server and the hosts are never around. There's nobody there. You would never know that like it's part of this podcast or something. And we're like,
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. It's something that it's weird because we've worked for it for a very long time. But I think we're finally starting to see some actual serious traction happening. Yeah. And it's freaking awesome, man. So thank you to everybody. That's enough being sappy. We're going to leave it there. But Ryan, let's get into this episode. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
So we're going to be talking about some of the things that used to exist in gaming. that are just simply gone. Gone. Gone with the wind. They don't exist anymore. The world has passed them by, the need for them is gone, but they hold a special place in our hearts.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
We're going to be diving into what made them special, why they kind of bring back memories for us, and we're gonna do our best for those that maybe didn't get to experience it to capture a little bit of the magic of what made these things great and why we're bringing them up in the first place. So let's do it, Ryan. Buckle up, buddy. Let's turn on that car. Let's take a trip down memory lane.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Nope. Nope. Ryan. Ryan, you forgot to put the car in drive again.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Dang it. There we go. Dang it. Away we go. All right. Let's do this, Ryan. Listen, I am a little, barely, tiny bit older than you. Yeah. But I know you still. This is the first thing I want to bring up. Arcades. Yes. Did you get the opportunity to just go and hang out in arcades when you were a kid?
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
The showdown on Mortal Kombat. Did you ever get the opportunity to step up to some stranger? Heck yeah. Mono e mono at the Mortal Kombat machine and be like, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
So one of the things when we talk about arcades too, and this is very much lumped in for me, is you had your giant arcades in the mall. You would be walking through the mall and I mean, these things were massive, dude. You're talking like hundreds of machines. People hear about like Dave and Buster's now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And it's like Dave and Buster's takes up like a wider scale because they have like the restaurant and the bowling lanes and all that stuff. But it's like, you know, back in the day, a good arcade would have hundreds of machines in there. And all you could hear is that chiming and the ringing sound and the whoop, whoop, whoop. and all that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And as you walked by, it was just a flood of like endorphins for like a kid brain at the time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
You want to go in, you know? But one of the things that I always think about with arcades as well, and I think people forget about, is the going to Pizza Hut with your family on like a Friday or a weekend. And they had the little dark corner of the Pizza Hut that had like the two or three arcade machines in it. Yep. You know, like Street Fighter 2 is one of my favorite games of all time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I never played Pogs, dude. No? No. I know it was a huge fad. I just never actually got into Pogs. It was just a little bit past, like, I missed it. You know what I mean? I think I was just a couple years too old for the height of Pogs and stuff. Gotcha. Yeah. I was a huge fan of JNCOs. I had so many JNCOs. It was ridiculous. I remember my parents looking at me like, our kid's an idiot.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And I remember there was a 7-Eleven that was a couple blocks from my house that had two arcade machines in a dirty, dusty, creepy corner of that 7-Eleven, man. But I can't tell you how many, like, honestly, like hundreds of hours I spent as a kid. And quarters. dirty little corner of that 7-Eleven just playing Street Fighter 2 for hours at a time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Anytime I found a quarter on the street, dude, I was running to that 7-Eleven or riding my bike to it and then just playing a round or two. And so for me, arcades, they follow that as well, where if you had a couple machines somewhere in a store and you could just plunk a couple quarters into it, play your buddy or something like that, dude, it was such a magical time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And I know there's going to be people that are like, aha! But these still exist. There's Peter Piper pizzas. There's Dave and Buster's and stuff. It's not the same, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
No, it's not. And that's why I'm bringing up these arcades of old. The other thing, the other really cool thing was you never knew when a new game was showing up. So if you were walking by and you saw a line of like 20 people all huddled around a machine, it did not matter if you were going to get in trouble or not.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
You would break off from your parents, run over there to see what the hype was like. What's everybody staring? What's this game? Mortal Kombat 2. I didn't know Mortal Kombat 2 was out. You know, your mom would start yelling at you. You're like, no, no, no, mom. I'll be right here. I won't move. I swear. You go shop and come back and get me. You don't understand. You don't understand.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Please, please, please. Yeah. And you would. You would beg. It was just kid nirvana. It was gamer nirvana to be an arcade man. Even if you didn't have money, you just watch people play games. You'd watch them fight each other in Mortal Kombat or whatever game was the hot commodity that was right up front. I really miss arcades, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And it's something that they're gone forever, but man, was it such a good time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Let me give you a quiz, Ryan, because only older gamers will know this. And all the older gamers out this, I know you know the answer to this. All right? You're at an arcade. There's two dudes playing Street Fighter. Somebody walks up and puts their quarter on the face of the machine. What does that mean? Challenge accepted. You're next up. I'm up next, buddy. Yeah, I'm up next.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
You know what I mean? Winner stays, loser pays, right? Like the dude that lost, you go to the back of the line, and whoever's quarter is up next is the guy that gets to put that quarter in the machine and play next. Yep. It was the unspoken rule. You never broke that rule, man. Yeah. And I don't care if there were 10 quarters lined up on that machine. You knew exactly which quarter was yours.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
You know? Oh, man. I miss those days, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Gaming is Dead, Long Live Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I am. All right, Ryan. What's one that you got in mind?
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
All right. I'll tell you what. I'm not going to get a Switch 2 at launch. I've said before we'll wind up with a Switch 2 at some point. So I am very curious to see what happens with Donkey Kong Bonanza, honestly. That's a morbid curiosity for me. I hope it's great. I just don't know that it's going to be great. All right, Ryan, what's up for you, man? Don't you steal my pick either, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Oh, like the midnight walk. Oh, Hey, you know what? John has not had the greatest of days, which happens to everybody, but what better way to make a day better than to talk video games with your friends. We've all been there. This is why we game. This is why we love video games. And this is why we do what we do, boys. We got a lot of cool stuff to talk about, too. We do, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
This, to me, might be my most anticipated game of the rest of the year, with the exception of Silksong. If we actually get Silksong this year, yeah. This is not my kind of game. This kind of falls up there with Disco Elysium for me, which, John, we're good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, where it's like, this is not normally my kind of game, but man, I feel like this is just going to hit it out of the park for me. We have been kind of standing for the alters for ever since we played the demo long ago. They took the demo down to work on the game. The demo is back up. If you have not tried the alters demo, give it a shot. It is well worth your time to try out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
But again, this is not a Josh kind of game, man. Yeah. But this demo blew me away. It instantly put it like, I cannot wait to play this game. They delayed it because I think they got so much positive feedback from the demo that they said, Whoa, we might be onto something here. Let's, let's make sure we knock this out of the park.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I have a very high level of confidence that they are going to do just that. Um, Yeah, I mean, I can't wait.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Crash land on an alien planet. You are by yourself in this crazy looking. It looks like a gigantic, like 50 story tall wheel that is your base. And you have got to try to like make it over to an area where you can like get off the planet. But you only have like a couple of days to do that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Uh, the only way that you can kind of tackle doing all of the work that you need to do is to create clones of yourself to do this. So that's where the alters cause they're alternate realities of yourself. But the way that the clones work is it takes like your life timeline and
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
And all of the branches where you could have made these different decisions, like, you know, hey, you chose your career over your wife. And so you wound up getting divorced. And that led you to being like this famous botanist. Or you stayed with your wife. You know, you travel down the timeline a little bit. And then it's like you decide whether you're going to have kids or not.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
And if you have kids, this makes you an astronaut. And if you don't have kids, you wind up this. And so you clone these like alternate versions of yourself to do chores, like to do different tasks in the base. It's crazy, though, dude. I know it sounds weird.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. 2025 has been a feast for gamers so far, and we just got the release of Doom the Dark Ages. But what's next? What games have we forgotten about that should be remembered? Well, in this episode, we'll be covering the games slated for release this year that need to be back on your radar. But first, some introductions are in order.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
The base building part is really fun where you kind of create these modules. And so you work on your base and which modules you think will be helpful. There's the planetary exploration part where you go out and have to gather resources and like explore and stuff too. So I don't know. This game looks phenomenal. It's coming out June 13th. In one month, guys? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
This is going to be a fun episode. So we got a little... Guys, we got a couple people to thank. And then stick with us because we have a quick little story that I know people are going to enjoy. We kind of promised to tell this story on this episode. So we're going to tell that story. And then we're going to talk about some incredible games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
We are in the throes of this two-week release thing, man. We had Expedition 33, and then two weeks we've got Doom the Dark Ages, and then in two weeks we've got another game that I'll just bring up right now, Elden Ring Nightreign, comes out May 30th. I said before that I have some hesitation about Elden Ring Nightreign, I think this game is going to be a lot of fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I cannot wait for people that haven't experienced Elden Ring to be able to jump in with the comfort of their friends and that kind of roguelike nature at the same time. Like, yeah, Ryan is the perfect example where we've already said, like, Ryan, this is going to be your foray into the Elden Ring universe.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
And I get, hey, maybe this isn't your type of game that you normally would kind of gravitate towards. but you get to play it with us. Yeah. And so Ryan's like, I'm in. And then like the beauty of that is if this is fun, I can't imagine it's not going to be, you know, this is going to draw even more people into that Elden ring.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
And then like, you know, if Ryan likes this game, then he's going to go, all right, guys, I got to try Elden ring now. And then we get the joy of more and more people trying Elden ring and, you know, and something like that. But Elden ring night rain coming out in two weeks is bananas to me, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
john i like for you you played elden ring you said i beat it you kind of also said this wasn't necessarily my favorite game because it's the difficulty level and stuff like that but you kind of felt compelled to beat it you know because your friends were playing and stuff like that are you excited at all for night rain i am tentatively excited elden ring i have such a
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
beat millennia i've so did you see that so then nobody has an excuse so there's yeah there's people this this is the thing is like elden ring has created so many challenges some guy beat it playing like a banana using a banana as a controller this is all kinds of crazy stuff on it I am cautious. As we get closer to Night Rain, I'm getting more and more excited.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Hopefully they're incredible because we think they're going to be incredible, which is why we're bringing them up. But first, some big shout-outs to some awesome supporters of the show. We want to thank Dingus Con and Riley Dismukes for signing up for rare status to support the show. Yeah. Thank you guys so much.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
But I have said, and I'm still on record saying, I'm a little worried that this is going to be too dumbed down to make it feel like my absolutely beloved Elden Ring, and that's my fear. But honestly, as long as it's fun and it gets people into that universe, it's a win for me at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
All right, listen, we're going to take a quick break, and then we're going to come back and talk about some more games coming out. All right, we're back. John, hit us with another one that you're excited about or curious about or want to make sure people remember.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
That's my hope as well. I mean, it's been five years now, and I hope that they kind of went cool. We hit it. We hit on something with Ghost of Tsushima. Now let's refine the formula. Let's perfect it. Let's blow people's minds with Ghost of Yotei. I'm with you on that one. Absolutely. Ryan, what's one for you, buddy? Ooh, okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Metal Gear five is solid. Five is the only one that I have played since it was just Metal Gear back in the old NES days, man. You're going to love this one, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I mean, I am, I am getting more excited as, as like the more I see of the game and stuff, but I want to know like the story, you know, why is everybody so freaking crazy in this game, man? Why are these all these crazy characters? Yeah, exactly. I mean,
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
it is but it's like there's a part of my brain that is just like i want to know like like i want to know more so that comes out august 28th so you know that is a big game in my mind like this is a big release coming up didn't they delay this one too i feel like they did i think we picked it last year that wasn't delayed i know yeah the last non-nintendo game that wasn't delayed Yeah, honestly.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that one I'm very curious for, Ryan, and I know you're super hyped for that one, and it's kind of bled over to me at this point, just because I want to know more about this franchise at this point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I love stealth in a game when it is not...
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
required all the time you know like when it's a balance of stealth i freaking love it dude like oh i love being sneaky and trying to figure out how to get around these guys when it is a pure stealth game where that is like 90 of the gameplay i just go like sometimes i just want to go in and murder people like an old school thief or something you know yeah yeah like that i feel you man it can be overdone for me a lot but there is a fine balance there where if they nail it i'm just like oh this is so great real quick uh splinter cell yay or nay
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I loved Splinter Cell. Yes. Yeah, that's a yay for me. I know that's kind of the exception because I just said, well, I hate games where that's all you can do. Yeah, it's mostly stealth. But they had the moments where you could pop people and stuff too. And I don't know. That was just perfection. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Ryan and I have said dingus is one of our favorite terms. I refer to myself as a dingus all the time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I am going to bring up a personal game for me because I did not get to play this game when it released on the PS5 as a PS5 exclusive. And this game is right up my alley for the type of gameplay that I like. That is Stellar Blade. Stellar Blade released on PlayStation as a PlayStation exclusive. John is grinning at me. John, I want to play this for the gameplay, John.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. No judgment at all. I just think it looks like a great game, man. What's so wrong with that?
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
In 4K HDR? Yeah, yeah. Come on. Let's go. Anyway. But yes, I don't have a PS5. This is a game where I was very excited about it, but it wasn't a big enough release for me to harass Ryan and be like, Ryan, let me borrow your PS5. I would have let you borrow it, bud. I know you would. But yeah, so it is coming out on PC. It's releasing on June 10th on PC. I've been waiting for this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I have heard nothing but good things from people about it. The gameplay looks fantastic. The game looks fantastic. And I just think this is going to be a great experience that I've been kind of jealous that I haven't gotten to have yet. And so for everybody that does not have a PlayStation and loves this kind of game and gameplay, Stellar Blade's coming out soon, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
And I am absolutely going to pick this up. I've been waiting for it for a year now. i hope that the pc port is good this is the one thing that could really sour it for me is sometimes pc ports are terrible and then you just go like come on man so hopefully the port is good but it is coming out very soon and this is absolutely kind of at the top of my my game list to play i bet
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
It's a term of endearment, you know, in my opinion.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
You're such a dingus, man. If I don't like you, I'm calling you something else. That's for sure. And then thank you to DarkSide900 for going epic status. Yeah. Here's the other thing I love. All of these people are in our Discord server. They all joined as just, hey, let me see what the hype is about. They've been listening to the podcast. Join the community that, hey, I know we hype it up.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I work with some developers. I don't know anything. I joke that it's like they live in the Matrix. Yeah, dude. Things are not as easy as you think.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Sometimes I'm like, can't you just do this? And they're like, they just shake their heads at me. And then I'm like, all right, I don't know, man. I'm sorry. So I imagine there is a lot that just even the transfer from like controller to mouse and keyboard, that alone is probably a monumental task, you know? So... I hope it's great. I'm getting it regardless.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
But yeah, Stellar Blade to me is a game that I think some people have forgotten about because it's been almost a year now since it released, but it's coming to PC and I am pumped to play that one, dude. John, what's up next for you, buddy?
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
If I could live in the Shire, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would do it. My wife and I have said, dude, if we could live in a little hobbit. house, you know, with the big round door, we would do that, you know, like both of us. Like, I love that just idea and being out in this middle of this beautiful shire with just happy people all around.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
The game would bore me to tears, but... But there's fishing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Animal Crossing. Cozy games are not my jam. My wife, it's her favorite thing in the world. And I said Kirby's Island Adventure. I mean Hello Kitty's Island Adventure before I get roasted by people. But my wife has been playing Kirby's Hello Kitty. You can't get those right. Hello Kitty's Island Adventure for probably the last month, and she loves it, dude. And she loved Animal Crossing as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
It's just I get why people like those. We play games to relax, and it's like, dude, sometimes this is the best way to relax is just to have a cozy little hobbit house.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Kirby cozy kitty. Kirby cozy kitty.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
But let this be proof that people join, go, oh my goodness, you guys are right, man. This place is awesome. And then they go, you know, these guys aren't big, fat, dirty liars. I should probably support the show. If you want to use that as your litmus test, hey, we are a-okay with that. You can join our community. There is a link in the episode description.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Hollow Knight's fantastic, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I started to play one, I think, or maybe I played a demo or something, because I do know the game and the little light character that kind of leads you and stuff. I just didn't know that they had combat or not. And that's honestly, when people talk about Hollow Knight, that's one of the things I love is Hollow Knight has some hard combat, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
And, you know, it's got some hard platforming challenges as well. And I like that level of difficulty. There's also the beauty of Hollow Knight and the music mixed in and stuff. So for me, I, you know, this is one of those things we talked about, you know, some of the most overrated, underrated games out there. Is it a perfect game? No. But is Silksong going to make it like that?
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
as close to a perfect game as you can get. After, what, 18 years of development? Maybe. It better be. It better be. That's honestly kind of the hope.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Do you need to play the first to appreciate the second? I don't think so. All right. Well, all right. So Ryan brought up Silksong. I am going to bring up a game that I have not played a lick of, but I have heard nothing but good things about from people. And I missed the demo when the demo was available. I think they had like a public play test or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
And this is honestly this might be the first time this game's ever been mentioned on this podcast. But the goal is to remind people of games that are coming out and coming up and things like that. I want to bring up a game called Rematch. Have either of you guys heard of this?
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
See, they're both looking at me like I'm crazy. So Rematch is a 5v5 soccer game that is made by the developer that made Sifu. I don't know if you guys know Sifu, but that's a very beloved fighting game. And I think I can't remember what else they made, but they made something else. You guys know that Rocket League is one of my favorite games of all time.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
It's probably my second most played game of all time. Rematch is 5v5 soccer, which normally would not interest me in the slightest, but I cannot deny the feedback and the hype that I have seen from people saying this is the best game since Rocket League that they have played. Where it is super intuitive. You can just pick it up, get in there with your friends and play soccer.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
And, you know, the controls are amazing. You can just jump in and have a blast. But the ceiling of this game seems to be like almost infinite, kind of like Rocket League is. I love competitive games and I get tired of shooters after a little while. And so having a game that you can play with your friends that all a rocket league, but with just amazing, that's just pure fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I got to preface this by saying John has no idea what this story is. And we started talking before we started recording to say, hey, we're you know, we got to tell the story. And then we realized that John didn't know. And then we said, OK, well, we're not going to tell you. We're going to tell you live on the air. So, Ryan, you are the one that discovered this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I have not seen a single person that played rematch that was like, it's okay. Like people are like, this is the greatest game since rocket league that I have seen. And the hype levels through the roof for this. Now, this is all said, I have not played this game, a lick. None of us have. But, man, sometimes you have to buy into the hype that you see from other gamers.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
And if that level is anything to be believed, rematch is going to be something special, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So I am super curious for this game. It comes out June 19th. Apparently it's been in development for a while. This is a well-known developer that makes quality games as well. And so I'm kind of done with rocket league. You know, I still have it installed.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
It lives on my desktop, like few games do, but I'm hungry for that next, like, Hey, can we get three people on and let's like, let's play some rematch together and just have a blast, man. I don't play sports games at all, but it is nice to have something similar. And Rocket League is kind of that weird hybrid. It's like a sports game, but it's an arcade game, but it's competitive and all that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
And it's like I'm so hungry for something like that again that I could easily see if this game hits. It's like it's my new comfort game kind of thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I can't imagine it's going to be more than $30 even at launch, you know, but I just... Games that are pure dumb fun. Yeah. Oh, for sure. They fill a place, you know, and it's like, I think this is going to be one of those. And I love competition, dude. Give me a chance to just be competitive and I'll jump on it every time. We know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Dude, I don't like losing so much that I don't play basketball because I absolutely suck at basketball. And I will have people like, hey, we're going to get some guys to play basketball. You want to play? And I'm like, no, I'm good, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, honestly, it's that bad. Sometimes I'm like, I hate that I actually suck at something, and I just won't do it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Okay, all right. We'll see about that. We'll see. All right, that was a pretty good dig.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
All right, who's got one? It's John.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I am going to toss this to you to set up, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
It's been how long since Gears of War came out? If this is anything remotely good of a remaster, I'm in.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Wasn't that... Was it 360? Yeah, it was on 360.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
It's been 19 years. So if this remaster is anything halfway decent, we will absolutely be playing some Gears of War together, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Just that running up to cover and then your dude slams against the wall like you said, that clunky just push.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I don't even know if I played 5, to be honest. I know I played 4, and then I think I was just like, the formula's starting to feel stale.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Ryan, how about one more for you? And then I do want to kind of quick fire some and we can just say whether we're excited or not. But I think that'd be fun to kind of hit up like a bunch of them real quick. So what's what's on your list as far as another one?
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
It's high on my list, too. I think I'm with you. And we kind of said we thought it was going to be like a two week trend of just you're going to see every Twitch streamer in the world playing this for a little while. But the more we solve it, the more I'm like, dude, I think there's something behind this game that actually will give it some longevity as well. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Kingmakers, I think, is going to be a blast. And I am very excited about that one. All right, let's let's hit a couple. I'll throw out a name. Tell me if you guys are interested. Haven't heard of it. Don't care. You know, let's let's just kind of do it like that. I'm going to explain this one because we covered this once or twice, maybe, but it is not prominent. Mind's eye.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
This is the futuristic GTA looking game. Yeah. See, Ryan's like, wait, I remember. Yeah. And if you haven't heard of it, that's fine. But this looks like GTA in the future to me. It looks very top notch. I mean, I've talked to a few people are like, dude, I cannot wait for this game comes out June 10th. June 10th is a banger of a day.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
So just to quick fire these, we get Mind's Eye, we get Dune Awakening, which has kind of fallen off my radar, to be honest. I know there's people that are excited for that one. And then we get the Stellar Blade. So it's like, which one? Maybe, but maybe Mind's Eye. Like, I don't know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
yeah exactly so i mentioned dune awakening any interest from you guys in dune awakening it's a mmo well yeah let's start with mine's eye mine's eye i hadn't heard about it but looking at it looks pretty sick dude it looks pretty good dude pretty cool again it legitimately looks like gta in the future man from the driving to the missions i mean this game looks pretty incredible in my opinion
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I'm a little worried because these kinds of games can fall real flat, real easy. But, man, if this game hits, it's going to hit hard, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dune Awakening. John, any interest from you? Nope. Nope. I have, like, a 3 out of 10 interest right now in Dune Awakening. Ark Raiders, I got to do the play test.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
It's way better than I thought it was going to be for the little bit that I got to play. The problem is it came out – the play test came out –
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Very, very polished, high-quality game. Three-man squad extraction shooter. I could see this being a blast with friends, man. Abiotic Factor. I'm going to bring this one up because I love the small indies. I'll tell you what. We have been playing a lot of Enshrouded on our server lately as well, which I think is fantastic. Abiotic Factor, in some ways, is actually better than Enshrouded to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
absolutely top-notch survival crafting game it feels like half-life it's kind of set in the half-life universe even though i don't think they can say that um but it all takes place inside this monstrous science facility i played everything we could possibly do and i remember you guys playing this yeah abiotic factor is freaking top-notch and it's supposed to release this summer um Ninja Gaiden 4.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Do you remember when we got the preview look at this? I can't remember what game show it was. Not State of Play or something, but oh my goodness, Ninja Gaiden 4 came out of nowhere and we went, whoa. Yeah, looks good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Speaking of Hideo Kojima, Death Stranding 2. Mm-hmm.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I just can't bring myself to play it. I feel like it's, I don't know, man. But Death Stranding 2 looks incredible.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
It's not the weird. I'm afraid of the boring. I'm afraid of the walking, dude. That's the one thing where I'm like, dude, if I get bored.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I've heard a lot of people say it's a very boring walking simulator with like five hours of cut scenes. That's the negative part. I have heard other people say, dude, this is one of the most unique game experiences I think I've ever had.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I'm very curious, man. So I'm very curious. I just don't know if you have to play the first one to be able to jump into the second. All right, guys. Tony Hawk, Pro Skater 3 and 4. Yes. Let's go. Comes out in the middle of July 11th. There is really nothing in July. So guess what I'm going to be doing? I'm going to be doing my kickflip Benihana Christ errors, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Borderlands 4. I'm pretty excited about it. I... I'm with you, John. Honestly, I, I, I'm kind of, I've been doing, I feel like I've been a little negative, but it's more just, please give me something new and different, but dude, Borderlands with friends is an absolute blast. Like there's no world where we don't hop into Borderlands four together and play some Borderlands four and have fun too.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I I'm with Ryan on this one. I, I don't like extraction shooters for the most part. I did just get saying done saying arc Raiders looks fun. So I, you know, figure that one out. I marathon is the kind of game where it's not really my genre.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
The only way I really see myself getting excited about marathon is if people start just singing its praises left and right, dude, it's kind of like expedition 33 with Ryan, right? Like he, he knew right away. He's like, guys, turn-based combat, not my thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
The hype behind this game, I can't deny it, played it, went, look, I can see how glorious it is, but it just doesn't resonate with me on a certain level. And I feel like that's Marathon, but I don't think Marathon's going to get near the hype Expedition 33 got, man. No, no, no.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
This is going to be a game that a lot of people enjoy, but is not going to be the scale that Bungie is hoping for with this game. And the only way I really see myself getting excited about it is if people just go, dude, this is the greatest thing I have played in a really long time. And the previews that people got to play and the streamers that got to play it and all that, I have not heard that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Well, let me tell you this, because there are a lot of people out there that have seen this person before. you know, on this show. This show. No. On this show.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I've heard it's pretty good. But it's pretty good. For a Bungie game, that ain't what people are looking for, man. Yep, yep, yep. Yeah. Any others that I didn't bring up that you guys kind of had as a quick fire or just should be mentioned real fast?
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Splitgate 2 is on my list. Metroid Prime 4 Beyond for people, you know. I don't know. I love Metroid, but this one's not doing it for me. I think I'm just getting old and grumpy, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Ryan, one that I know you enjoyed and I am very curious about, Deep Rock Galactic Survivor.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Well, yeah, I wouldn't say, because some of the levels were pretty tough. It's actually hard. It's easy to play, I guess. It's easy to just jump into and start around.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Um, all right. I, I probably, I was going to end it, but let's just do it. Cause there's only three more mafia, the old country. If you ever wanted to play GTA, but be mafia, that game looks pretty darn good. Honestly. Um, that comes out August 8th, uh, crimson desert. This game looks crazy. It looked like it was going to be, uh, like a, like a, an RPG like MMO.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
And then it got kind of converted into a single player game, but it looks very over the top. That one sent me interesting to me. And then Kronos, the new Dawn, we saw some trailers for and talked about a month or two ago. That one looks kind of interesting. It had the guy that looked like the big daddy with the giant circle head thing. Um, I don't know what to expect on that one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I'm very mid on it so far until we see more. So yeah, And then killing floor three is the last one. That's kind of a niche game, but legendary Jake first person ever go legendary made us play killing floor two as his pick. And so those are fun. That's a, just a kind of mindless co-op shooter, horde defense kind of thing too. So sweet. All right, guys, we got a lot to look forward to still.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
There's no way that anybody that's on this show and has been a member of our community for years now would ever leave us a one-star review.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Okay, pick one game at the top, the very, very tippy top of your list. You can only pick one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
This is crazy, and maybe it's just because it's coming up soon, but I'm picking The Altars, boys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
A million people that love Hollow Knight and are thinking Silksong is going to be the greatest game ever just got very mad at us for not saying Silksong. But I don't know, man. I'm more hyped for the alters for some reason.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
You had me and you lost me. All right. Listen, hey, thanks for hanging out with us, everybody. We absolutely just love talking games. We hope we reminded you of some games that are coming up. And if we didn't, maybe we put some on your radar as well. If you enjoy the show and you are not already doing it, remember to follow us. Hit that subscribe button, that plus button.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
That way you get all of our episodes the day that they release. Come join our community. Again, we talk about it all the time. We are getting multiple people joining daily at this point, which is absolutely fantastic. And again, Almost every single person that joins is like, man, I did not know this could exist.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Gamers that love games that aren't toxic to each other and actually just share their passion for gaming is something truly incredible. It does exist. You can get there by tapping the link in the episode description to come.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
come find out do it uh if if you want to go that extra mile and support the show uh you know that really does keep this podcast alive we could not do what we do without the support of our listeners and so if you have found enjoyment in life because of this podcast think about supporting the show again there is a link in the episode description for you there as well thanks for hanging out everybody that's gonna do it for this one until next time happy gaming see ya toodles
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
What a fitting name, by the way.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Oh man, I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. Yeah. John Ace, you know, like literally, you know, host of the indie episode. Good friend of ours.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. It gives us a one, you know, one star people. You just can't please me. I mean, you game with them. You think, you know, somebody, and then you get it. You get a peek into the, like the dark hallways, you know, of one star reviews and then find out. He probably thought he's like, God, these guys are never going to see this man. Yeah. Just a little jab in there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I am your host, Josh. And joining me, he's finally out of his early access stage, and the Steam ratings have him sitting rated as overwhelmingly positive. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Ace, I'm sorry that I didn't peel for you in Marvel rivals that one time. Okay. Okay. Like this is not what you can just come to us and say something. All right. You don't have to bomb the podcast. Yeah. Just let us know. We're reasonable people. Come on. Yeah. Do you remember when we talked about how we don't like review bombing and stuff? Did you notice Ace didn't really speak up?
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
To be fair, Ace was mortified and promptly went and fixed it, but not before Ryan got the screenshot evidence of it, too. Yeah. All right, boys, let's chat some video games, man. Okay, so what we are doing. I mean, guys, 2025 so far has been freaking incredible.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
We have multiple Game of the Year candidates so far, dude. Yeah. I mean, Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, we said this is absolutely a Game of the Year contender. Then Split Fiction comes out and we go, whoa, this is a Game of the Year contender. And then Expedition 33, I kind of called this one, comes out, blows everybody's mind.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
the front runner in my opinion for game of the year at this point it's a game of all time contender man it it really is dude like honestly it is that freaking good ryan's shaking his head but man at least john and i have good taste in video games yeah um so But then that brought up the question where we go, you know, Doom, the Dark Ages, literally after we record this, I am going to play it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I've got about 40 minutes into Doom so far, so I've gotten that taste that I'm like, I'm craving more. But then it's like, Then what, guys? Where do we go from here, man?
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
There is a lot of what. And so that's what we're going to talk about today. We kind of want to remind people what games might be coming up over the rest of the year, what games we're excited about, which might be the ones that we have the most hype for. And if nothing else, just a reminder that there is still a lot of 2025 left when it comes to gaming and to just kind of talk about some of these.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Why don't you start us off? What is a game that is coming out that you are very, very excited for or looking forward to or have maybe the most hope for?
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
So famously, you know, everybody saw me saying, please don't be Donkey Kong as the big release title for the Switch 2. And then lo and behold, it was freaking Donkey Kong. I love Donkey Kong, dude. Like, honestly, Donkey Kong Country. I mean, you know, the Donkey Kong games are a blast. And I actually like that some of them are kind of hard, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
All right, Ryan, thanks for the, you know, thanks, man. Yeah. Glad you didn't need us.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
If you go back and play some of these, like, you're like, oh, wow, I kind of forgot. These are not easy games. My take on the Switch 2 using Donkey Kong was simply, like, I don't... He doesn't have the same gravitas as Mario or Zelda does. And if you were launching a console...
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
And I know people love Donkey Kong, and boy, did we take some flack for saying that at the same time, because everybody that loves Donkey Kong came out of the woodwork and was like, oh, you guys don't know stuff. And we were like, I mean, we love Donkey Kong, man. It's just not a console-selling type game. I'll say this. What I do love are 3D platformers, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
And this game, the art style is a little bit different to me, which kind of makes me go like, what? It's like, what is this? I have no doubt that this is going to be a super fun game, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
All right, well, let me quickly move on to this next introduction then. And joining us, if announcement trailers are any indication, he's set to be one of the best additions to gaming in 2025.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
So are you excited for this, John? Is it more that you're curious on this one?
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
I don't want to get too far off track here, but really quickly, is there a Zelda game that didn't land for you guys? There is one for me. Absolutely. Like I played like three hours and then I was like, I don't like this game at all. I didn't play most of them. Oh yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
uh what's the most recent one where you're actually zelda i didn't oh it's the um is that it's the weird top down it's got the weird art style uh yeah my wife played it the twilight princess maybe no that's the one i don't like i don't So for me, Twilight Princess, we were very excited for. We started playing it and I was like, this is the most dumbed down game. We couldn't do it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
We couldn't walk up to like a fallen log on the ground before the stupid, annoying little, I think it's Navi. Is that who it is? Was like, oh, you can jump over this. Press A to jump. And it was like, dude, I don't know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
need you to tell me that i can jump and but it was non-stop like even my wife who loves these games and is not like as experienced of a gamer was like this is the most annoying thing ever do they think we're idiots and i was just like i can't i can't do it man and i know i know there's people that love twilight princess i'm sorry but i literally that was my most hated zelda game ever did you play did you play mario wonder by any chance
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Yes, I did. Mario Wonder I thought was great.
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
Well, this is true, dude. And listen, this is not. But how many companies do we see that dumb their games down for the lowest common denominator?
Video Gamers Podcast
Most Anticipated Games of Late 2025! | Gaming Podcast
We're not trying to talk bad about it because that's not what we do, but there have got to be people that struggle a little bit. But when you dumb a game down and you try to cater to the lowest common denominator, you have nothing that makes your game special at that point, dude. Like, honestly.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
And that might just be my crazy brain. But no, but I'm with you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Ryan? Dude. Am I crazy? You are the farthest thing from crazy. This was... I haven't... It was almost... I know we talk a lot. We're old gamer dads. We talk a lot about nostalgia. And part of that is going back to just your youth of playing games and just having fun. Where you just laugh. You joke.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
You are enjoying yourself the whole way through, no matter what happens as this playthrough kind of progresses. And... That's the entirety of this game. You log in and you have no clue what's going to happen. You have no idea where you're going to go. And you're just amped up and excited and ready for whatever comes your way. I have not had this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
It may not be one of the best games I've played in the last few years. But it may be definitely, like you said, up there with the most fun I've had. In the last few years. It was just an absolute blast.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Man, this one was... It's hard because... it's almost like there's a bunch that's there. There's, there's so many different directions you can go. Like, you can't choose this. You got to pick one. I know you got to pick one thing. And so this is, this is the thing is the, the, um, it's like, how do you describe it? Basically the, the inability to have expectations.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
You don't know what the heck is going to happen. Um, On the next level you go. The next little side shoot on a side mission portal. Or the next world you go into. The thing that I think is so brilliant that they were able to achieve with this game is... The way it's set up and the way the story unfolds is the possibilities are genuinely endless.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
You really don't know what is going to happen next, so you always are anticipating something crazy, and it makes you want to keep playing the game. It makes you want to keep going around that next corner, going around the next bend to see what else is there. All right, 30 minutes more. All right, 30 minutes more. And you do the next one and the next one. And so it's like – One more level, guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
All right, one more level. One more level. Let me just check this out. And so I think there's just – there's something to be said about a game that, as crazy as it sounds, just makes you want to keep playing it. And I think for me it was just – it was – I never knew what was going to happen. I couldn't anticipate it. And so I wanted to keep going to see what else there was there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
No, that makes sense. For me, it was just you are doing this section and you have this ability or you have this thing you're using, some sort of craft or something. And then you move on to the next stage and you're like, aww. Because you're kind of – you were just at that level where you're almost like fulfilled by it. So it leaves you wanting just a little bit more.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
And then within 10 seconds, you're already doing something else. And you totally forgot about what happened 15, 20 seconds ago. And you're on to the next thing. You're like, oh, this is awesome, man. Look what I'm – And you're going off and dying or this or that. It gives you just enough to give that taste, and then it moves on to the next course. It's just like this never-ending buffet of fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
And I had an absolute blast. Plus, it certainly helped that I was playing with an eight-year-old child, that he's very good at video games. And so that helped that we weren't constantly dying. The only time I died was when he purposely made me die, which made it even more fun. But yeah, it just that that never ending just buffet of fun just kept coming down the road, man. It was it was awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, for sure. And I, and I'm, um, I'm probably more of always just, I've always been a more of a sci-fi guy. I love, I, I'm a huge astronomy nerd, a big space guy. And so if it's out there in the stars, that's what I gravitate towards. But I found the different, um, abilities and stuff. And we'll get into that more a little bit later with the spoilers and stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
But the things you could do in the fantasy aspect, I found myself having more fun doing that. And I'm like, okay, this is really cool too. So it gives... It just... There's so many options and so many kind of paths to go in this realm to have fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
And that's the thing I think they did so well is that there's just no matter what direction you take, no matter what you like, sci-fi or fantasy, you're going to have fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Oh my God. You get in and I'm like, wait, this is more of this game? We have all these other crazy sci-fi worlds with planets and then these fantasy lands with giant trees and all these crazy animals and beasts. And then we have just this hand-drawn, beautiful, kind of super simple, but so...
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
And then, Ryan, who did you play as? I actually played as Zoe. I did not choose. We just kind of booted it up. And I'm like, all right, I'll take this one. You take that one. And let's roll. But I was immensely happy that I had Zoe because that's kind of with me. I'm just like fun and crazy. And that's how she was. And I'm like, let's go. I played as Zoe as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I did think that I was happy it was there. I think that the way they set it up, it fits and it is appropriate for the gameplay and how the whole thing kind of melds together. It's not what made this game for me, but I did appreciate it. I did see like, oh, okay, that's why she's that way. That's why she's behaving like this or making these comments. So it does tie a lot of things together.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Um, it's not what makes the game, uh, which at the end of the day, when you're playing a couch co-op, you don't want the story to make the end. You want the gameplay to make the game cause you're playing together. So that's, that's what you want to do. You want to have fun. And, and it, this did the, you know, tenfold. So, um, the story was great.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I thought it tied everything together, but it wasn't anything, you know, super outstanding.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
This isn't Arthur Morgan looking at the sunset or sunrise or whatever at the end of Red Dead or anything like that. But like you said, I'm glad it's there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
The overarch. the connection like okay that's why that's where this world that I'm in came about you know because Zoe as a kid with her sister blah blah blah you know and didn't like the dentist yeah and so or their animal or whatever happened you know and so it is cool to to know why you are where you were within that world but um Yeah, man, it was no matter what, it was just fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
To me, it almost was akin to like... And I know this is wild and way out there and crazy, but Halo 3... warthog level like it i know i'm kind of with you dude it was it was that just that because it was a constant it it wasn't um there was no like lull or or dead time it was just boom boom You just kept having that pulse, and you're like – And it sped up.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
And it sped up, and you're like, I got to get there, and I got to go, and I got to move, and I got to get to this one. And then my son, he would jump up, and then I'm like, no, no, you don't jump down here. And then he gets just roasted and just melted to nothing. And he's made into particles, and then he's got to reboot and go back up over the top and stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
So that one, to me, was definitely one of the best – I have played in a game in years. It was something that I wanted to finish, but I didn't want it to end. Right. Yeah. No, absolutely. I was sad when that level ended. Yeah. And you get out of it and you're like, man, you got to take a breath.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
And you feel like the Avengers after the end where they're all in the diner and they're just sitting there. You're just like, that was crazy. But you're so happy it's done. But there was something about that level that I haven't played in a long time. And I just kept yelling out loud.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
this is game of the year this is game of the year you know as i'm playing it so it's man there's just something about a level that that makes you feel that connection and that feels that enjoyment and excitement that uh i haven't felt in a long time yeah yeah ryrie was there a level for you that stood out um i i enjoyed the majority of the side stories yes yes oh yeah um
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Ryan, was there one that stood out for you above any of the others? I mean, honestly, dude, my answer would probably be the star level. I also, I mean, I know we're in spoiler territory, so... A lot of the fantasy worlds where you could do, as Zoe, you could be the tree. I kept calling him Groot. Shapeshifting. Shapeshift.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
And then, like, the ability throughout this, I mean, you're just playing this level. And I have my normal human state. I can go be a tree or I can be a fairy. And that's just me. And, you know, Jackson, my son, he's over there. He's able to change into a fish. And then I forget what the other thing was that he could be. It's an Yeah, the ape. Yeah, the ape.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
So then I'm like, oh, I got to hit this branch and then bring this down. Then he can climb across. And there's so much there that you never got bored or into a lull or into kind of a zone where you just kind of were just going through the game. And those worlds just... I just got lost in them. And so we had so much fun. So, I mean, the star one is number one for me too, just like you, Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
But some of the other fantasy stuff where you could shapeshift was so cool.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
And I'm playing with an eight-year-old. And I'm like, Jackson, you don't know what we're about to do right now. I was like, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. We're damaging him. Come on. Do you see his blinking?
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I'm going to pass it on to the expert. I want to hear what he has to say. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
The problem is he's just like me. And so my first thought is like, I'm going to not open this portal for him and he's going to die. And he does it before I do it. And so he knows. So he's already ahead of the game. So yeah, I'm up there. I'm probably going to be a little bit more on my time gameplay than you were. But as far as what I would change, honestly, like...
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Man, I do think if there was a little bit more in the world, there was just... The way it was set up, where the possibilities were almost endless, because you were in this kind of computer system to where... This is all thoughts and theories and everything else. It's an open slate. You can do whatever you want to do. So if they were to put a little bit more, it would have been cool.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Some of this come a little side pieces. And then, like you said, near the end, there wasn't as many side missions. So if there was just some more of that extra stuff, extra flair... It would have been nice, but that's really one of those things. You're nitpicking at Gordon Ramsay's steakhouse.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
You're taking something that's a 9.5 or whatever and making it a 9.4.8, decimal, decimal, decimal type thing. You're nitpicking and trying to find a reason to not like it or to make an issue. To me, there's not too much to pick on this game. It was just so dang good. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, dude. This is one that is top tier within the last decade. I am not the huge couch co-op type guy, but this makes me want to play more couch co-ops. I'm going to actively search them out now so I can try and come even a little bit close to recreating this experience. So... This game did its job, and it served its purpose, and it was just to have fun, and it did it tenfold. Yeah. Ryrie?
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
yeah all right last question before we close is this in contention for game of the year for me it is but you guys are the solo gamers what else i mean i i personally i think that it it is in contention i like i said i kept yelling um as i was playing like this is my game of the year this is my game of the year you know and i loved kingdom come deliverance 2 like i
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I had more fun than I can even imagine playing that game. But there's just something to be said about that co-op nature in playing with someone, especially that's sitting right next to you, that you can laugh and have that kind of enjoyment with in the moment IRL. But I don't think it'll win, unfortunately. But I do think it should absolutely be nominated and it should be up there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I love these so much. Anytime we're like, oh, we got to read a couple of reviews. It is a happy day for me on recording. This one comes to us from Frostbite 970. And it says, thank you so much for giving me something to listen to while I'm doing boring stuff. It makes everything so much more enjoyable. I agree. It really does. I do. I agree.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I think that's just, you know, that's what we're here for.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Well, you're in for a rollercoaster ride, buddy. That's bad. Talk about behind.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I'm like, wait, where did this even go in our draft? I'm like, somebody had to pick it up. I was like, I wonder how much. And I looked and I'm like scrolling through mine. I'm scrolling through yours. I'm scrolling through Paul's. I'm like,
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
oh my gosh nobody even drafted it i'm like how did we and we were doing throwaways at the end for like two dollars and we could have got split fiction and nobody even picked it at all that's how under the radar it was man yes and ryrie's over here going it wasn't under my radar boys i spent all 200 of my bucks on on split fiction in that draft there you go
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
Okay, that's like 80% of the games you've ever beat in your life are those games right there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
It was, and I haven't really... I'm a big, so I'm almost the opposite of Ryrie. I am almost exclusively a single-player guy. I'll play multiplayer rivals with you guys, and we'll get on Rust that we've been playing recently and stuff like that, but... Single player games are my bread and butter. Action RPGs, an involved world that I can just lose myself in. That's what I love the most.
Video Gamers Podcast
Sublime Split Fiction - Gaming Podcast
I do love multiplayer games. I do love couch co-ops in those. So this one was like, man, this game looks really cool. I love the way this looks. I love what I'm seeing. Well, anyways, and then I just go, you know, off to something else. And so it was one of those where it pop up and I was excited in the moment, but it didn't grip me enough to hold on to make me remember.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
All right. And then the other one is a game that we have heard a lot about. This is a game that I'm absolutely positive that I would I would love. Like, I don't know if you would love it, but I know that I would love it. And we have heard so many good things about it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
I am kind of curious for you to play this because this I think is a fantastic entry into the souls like genre because it's much more approachable for people. And I think it kind of takes away that dark, grim, you know, dark souls feel. And instead it puts you under the ocean where you get to be a cute little crab. And that is another crab's treasure. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
You know, famously called a shells like instead of a souls like literally in the steam descriptor for the game. I remember when this game was announced and a lot of a lot of our listeners were very excited for Ace, you know, who takes, you know, he he handles the indie podcast for us. And that episode was just super excited about another crab's treasure, played it, loved it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
I, I, you know, we, we pick on you and your love of Diablo two, but dude, any game that you can play 20 years later and still have a good time is a testament to a great game. Like rocket league. I love rocket league. I haven't played it in a few months, but it's like, is rocket league going to be around in another 15 years or people still going to be just, you know, playing rocket league.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
Every person that has played this game just comes back and raves about it. And so it's like. What's not to love, man? I haven't heard a single bad thing about it. I've heard that the gameplay kind of evolves and it's just a joy.
Video Gamers Podcast
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Another Crab's Treasure is very high on my list of when I get a free weekend or a week off of games or something, I will pick that game up and play it for me kind of thing because I'm pretty sure that I would love it. But you had this on your list, Ryan, and this kind of shocked me because it's like, this is Souls-like.
Video Gamers Podcast
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Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Gaming is an amazing hobby, but sometimes we can get a little too excited about the number of games out there. Sometimes we fall prey to the wonderful yet evil Steam Summer Sale, I mean Steam Winter Sale, I mean Steam Autumn Sale. Our wallets take a beating, but our backlogs grow in leaps and bounds.
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That's the whole point is it's Souls-like combat, but you're just a cute little crab working your way through the bottom of the ocean. So what's up with this for you?
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Yeah, I think it's again, I haven't played it. I don't think it's super difficult is one of the things like I know that there are plenty of boss fights in the game. I like the fact that you can get different shells because you are a hermit crab.
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So it's like you can get like a little plastic cup or you can get different kind of shells to go on your back, which I think is kind of a neat take on like the gear upgrades and stuff there. Also, I just I think this game looks fantastic. I will absolutely be picking up another crab's treasure at some point. I've just I don't know that I've heard a single person go. Yeah. It's okay. Yeah.
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All right. Listen, we're going to get into our individual lists here, but those are the two that we share. But we're going to take a quick break, and then we'll be right back. All right. We are back. All right, now we're getting into the nitty gritty because this is where you and I veer off from each other a lot. And I'll start us off on this one.
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This is a game that I actually had my eye on from the moment it was announced. I got it for free. Again, thank you, Epic Game Store. I wish I could actually play some of these games that you're giving away. But this the game for me is Marvel Midnight Suns. Now, this game, when it got announced, I just went, dude, they made this game for me. Like it's superheroes. It's Marvel.
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And it's a turn based game where you get cards to kind of use as your skill abilities. There's tacticalness. You know, I love turn based combat. I love that kind of strategy that's involved there. You get the kind of stories between the characters. There's interplay between the characters, depending on who you take on your missions and things like that.
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There's the whole part where you're back at the Professor X's mansion. I can't remember the school for mutants or whatever it's called. Oh, I sound like a terrible fan now. So, you know, and I know that that's like a big part of the game where it's like almost like a relationship kind of building part of the game, too. But Marvel Midnight Suns, I wish listed like instantly when I heard about it.
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And it's like, I don't know if it is, then you're an all time game at that point. So yeah. Yeah. Well, welcome in, everybody. Ryan? I'm tired, boss. I'm tired, boss.
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I know that we've had some people play it and they spoke very highly of it. And it's been sitting in my backlog for legitimately, I think, over a year. And I've never booted it up. I've never touched it. And it's just one of those games that it's like, I have not forgotten about. I will absolutely play this game at some point. I feel like it's custom made for me.
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Turn-based combat, Marvel superheroes, cards is like the skills, like what's not to love. This is all like Josh type stuff. And I just don't know why I've, and I got it for free. It's like, there's not even any risk, man. I don't have to be like, oh, I better refund this in two hours if I don't like it. I think that it's just that it's a big game. I've heard that it takes a while to play.
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And I don't know if that's kind of what's putting me off on that. But I am still very, very curious about this one. I think it looks great. I totally get this is not up your alley at all. But yeah, that's one that's like right at the top of my backlog for me.
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Oh, what a good mom. Yeah, I know, right? Moms tell the best lies.
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Now, Paul and I played Monster Hunter World, and we liked the gameplay portion of it. I remember being like, cool, the fighting the monsters is really neat, and they're very varied. They're mechanics and the types of monsters that you come across and stuff like that. It was the rest of the game that I really didn't like.
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Like the being in town and the, again, I just kind of mentioned this, but there's cooking, there's crafting, there's eight different weapon types and every weapon type has a completely different move set and upgrade paths and stuff like that.
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And it got to be one of these games where the, unless you were actually stalking the monster and hunting it down and trying to find it and then fighting it, the rest of the game to me was very just convoluted, complicated and not fun. At that point. Okay.
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Now, part of that was, you know, we play games kind of on a timer, so to speak, where it's like, hey, I've got about two weeks to dive into this game, maybe a little bit longer, depending. But I felt like that stuff kind of distracted me. The fighting the monsters part was glorious. So and I know Monster Hunter Wilds is coming out and people are very excited about that.
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And it's weird because it's like I don't want to base the entire series off of just the one experience. So I'm kind of with you that it's like, man, this would be fun. And it's multiplayer. Like you join your buddies in these fights. You can cut off limbs and stuff. You can target things and then you get.
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certain things if you can cut off the horn and stuff like that you can cripple them which is neat so now they can't run away because a lot of times they'll flee when they're getting their butts kicked but if you like if you hack at their legs enough now they're crippled and they can't run you know and stuff like that so there's a lot going on with those games it's just that like half of it really worked for me and the other half just didn't work at all yeah so well one day all right
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Yeah. You know, listen, we want to thank all the people that have come on the show to do these awesome interviews. I mean, talking to voice actors, talking to these developers. I mean, this has been awesome. And we warned people ahead of time. We said, man, we are shooting for the moon. We're taking this podcast to the next level. And I think they got a taste of that.
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So one for me, I'll be honest, I didn't even know I had this game. And now I'm super excited because this is what this episode has done to me, man. So I'm just covering these Epic Game Store games first. So apparently, Epic Game Store gave away a game that I remember looking at and being like, oh, dude, I've had my eye on this game for a while now. And so I picked it up.
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And then I completely forgot that I picked it up, man. And this game looks legitimately really, really good. That is a game called Sunless Skies. And so I remember looking up the very first game is called Sunless Sea. And this kind of is almost like a throwback in a way to the old top-down... Uh, like 2d action arcade type games.
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Like if anybody that's old enough like me to remember star control, it's, it's kind of similar in that regard, but it's a top down. You were piloting a submarine through the deep, dark, creepy, creepy ocean. And it's very, very atmospheric. And I remember for the longest time I was like, I'm going to buy this suddenly sees game and give it a shot. And then I just never did.
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Well, lo and behold, they made a sequel called Sunless Skies, where instead of being in the ocean, now you're floating around, you know, in a post-apocalyptic world as like a floating train, I think. And it's like, but this game looks incredible, dude. It is one of the most atmospheric games that exists. You're seeing all kinds of creepy things.
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You're floating through these really dark areas and you just see like these kind of scary things on the peripheral part of your vision. Cause it's foggy and it's dark. And it's like, it's almost like a horror game in a way. Um, and I can't believe that I had this game just sitting there, man, all this time, just waiting to be played by you.
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So I'm going to read, just so people can understand, I'm going to read the description for Sunless Skies because it just sounds really neat to me. I won't read the description. It's just considered a gothic horror roleplay game with a focus on exploration and exquisite storytelling. Now, the draw here is that you get to put together a crew, but your crew is very, like...
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You know, they're not a good crew, man. Like, they all come with serious problems that are involved with them. You know, so I think they're filled with character and stuff like that there. I love exploration and discovery when it's just kind of natural in a game and the stories that those can tell, too.
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So Sunless Skies, I will absolutely probably dive into this weekend just a little bit because I didn't realize I had this game. And I think it looks phenomenal, man.
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But at the same time, this is always who we've been. It's who we will always be. We are gamers chatting games, hanging out together, talking about the stuff that gamers talk about. And it's been awesome, but this is kind of like a... like a breath of fresh air. Back to basics, baby. Getting that stamina bar back, right?
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And I feel like I'm not sure what the gameplay is like, but I feel like this is one of those games that you probably actually remember playing just because of how unique it feels at the same time.
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And it seems very I don't want to say it's super like action based, but there's definitely enough action where you're fighting and, you know, piloting around and stuff like that to kind of keep you on your toes, too.
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one shot one opportunity to seize everything you ever wanted one moment that you captured just let it slip it's not like millennia where you can just fight her 400 times in a row you if you die to hades you got to start over again it's over man You know, like, yes, you keep your permanent progression kind of thing.
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But now you got to go through all the levels all over again and work your way back to there. And so it takes a long time just to get to that fight. And I've gotten him low, but I've never killed him. And it just aggravates me. And it's one of those things where I just I'm a failure. And I don't like that because you didn't have me. So I'm going to hop on board and we'll knock it out, buddy.
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Well, it's not multiplayer is the downside. That's why we were hyped for Sworn. You're thinking of Sworn, which looks like Hades, but is multiplayer at that point.
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Hades is a phenomenal game, dude. Not only is the gameplay in Hades just top notch with the combat and the action, the character interaction and the fact that this game remembers everything that you've done. Like when you die and you kind of come back to the, you know, your castle or your, you know, the part where your Hades is.
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And, you know, it's like the characters will actually talk about it and they'll be like, oh, did you die to that thing again? You know, and stuff like that. So the game like remembers your gameplay at the same time. I also happen to absolutely love Greek mythology. Yeah.
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And it just plays right into all the mythology stuff, man, with Achilles and Hades and all the gods, Zeus and Aphrodite and all that stuff. So that's also right up my alley as far as being a nerd for that stuff too, man. Dude, Hades is top notch. All right, so here's a game that a lot of people have probably not heard of, but looks absolutely incredible.
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And this is another one that it's like, at some point I will play this. And I have heard very, very good things about that. And again, if you have played this game, let me know what you think of it, because I really need that push to kind of just commit to playing it. But let me just start off with this. This game on Steam is sitting at a 96%.
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overwhelmingly positive rating with over 20,000 reviews, dude. Jeez. So, and I bet you a lot of our listeners have not heard of this game. And that is a game called Signalis. So I will actually read the stream, the steam description on this one.
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So signal is the steam description is a classic survival horror experience set in a dystopian future where humanity has uncovered a dark secret unravel a cosmic mystery, escape terrifying creatures and scavenge an off world government facility as Elster, a technician replica searching for her lost dreams. Um,
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We've done the big heavy fight and it's like now it's just time to explore a little bit. So yeah, exactly. You said it. We're back to basics. So for people that are like, are you guys turning into just an interview podcast? No, we're not. We're still going to be doing these awesome bonus rounds, our twig episodes, our deep dives and all that. But we are absolutely thrilled
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Now, before we started recording, Ryan, I said the one game that I'm going to talk about that you probably need to watch the trailer for is this game called Signalis. And what did you think of it?
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It looks like a game that was made in the late 80s or early 90s with some of the weird graphics to it. It's very artistic in its styling, but it's also very dark. But it goes from a weird, almost like a top-down third-person view of the character, almost like a Resident Evil in a sense.
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In a sense, but then it gets into this weird puzzle-based... uh, very almost like eight bit in some of its graphics. You're trying to unlock stuff and yeah, yeah. You're turning dials and trying to interact, but you're like a replicant kind of thing. So you are a cyborg lady. It's eerie as anything. It's dark as anything. It's very atmospheric once again.
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But I, I mean, I have heard incredible things from, from people that have played signal us on like social media and stuff where they're like, dude, this game blew my mind. I have heard people equate it to like the memory that like, uh,
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being as memorable as playing like through the near games where they're just like, dude, these there's, there's like a deep, deep kind of like humanity, like thinking and how like we interact with our world and things like that. So again, I've never played it. I just know I really, really want to play this game.
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And if the reviews are anything and if the word of mouth is anything, I really feel like people should at least look into this. And again, if you've played it, I want to hear about it because I'm very, very interested in this game. And again, that name is Signalis.
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It looks so unique. Like, I love games that are not just copies of other things. And this game looks like it is its complete own entity. And it is like it's probably unlike a lot of other games that people have played. That interests me.
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And if people needed one more thing, just in the last 30 days, cause this came, this game came out in 22, uh, in the last 30 days, it's actually a 97% with almost 500 reviews, uh, There's some kind of magic here, man, and I want a piece of that.
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Oh, dude, Dredge is fantastic, dude.
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Ace did a review in 60 seconds. That's right.
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Dredge is one of those games that's so easy to play. Yes. And we all need that, right? I haven't played King and Come Deliverance in the last three nights because I've been just working a ton and we've been doing podcast stuff. And it's like I sit down and I go, okay, I have like 40 minutes at most to play some video games right now.
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And like kingdom come as, you know, as impressive as it is, is it's like, it takes a little while to get going. I have to think about what I'm doing so that I'll accidentally rob somebody or sleep in somebody's bed and get myself killed and lose an hour of game time or something like that. So we all need those games that are just easy to play. Right.
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Like, and dredge is just absolutely one of those games. You're, you're fishing, you are upgrading your boat. So the progression is just, it's, it's honestly almost perfection in the way that you get progression and you know, you're a progression guy. Yeah, I do. I mean, I really am.
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But it's like, you know, you can get faster motors and you can get bigger nets and you can get, you know, all kinds of things, right? Like bigger fuel tanks so you can stay out longer and things like that. And so that gameplay loop alone is something. The fishing is enjoyable. The exploration is great.
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The fact that it's very atmospheric and there is something creepy going on, like you don't want to be out at night, but you kind of want to be out at night because you're like, dude, what if I just stay out? Like what happens? And then you find out what happens, you know? Oh, that's what happens.
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There is a reason that Dredge kind of took the world by storm for a little while, and I think people played it, and then people went, dude, it's a great game. It's not a groundbreaking, you know, it's just one of those super enjoyable experiences. And it's cheap, it's easy, you can play it in probably three or four days if you really get into it, and then you're just done with it.
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And I mean, that's what we will always do. That is our guarantee to people. But honestly, the feedback to those interviews has been spectacular, dude.
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But yeah, Dredge is a must play in my opinion.
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All right, we're back. I like these little pre-break teases, man. Don't ask me why. It's probably because it's my little bit of a troll side. Yeah, just a little bit. All right. So I was a huge fan of Vermintide and then Vermintide 2. I think slaughtering hordes and hordes of rats with your buddies and getting into these situations where it feels like defeat is imminent and then somehow surviving.
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And then just that adrenaline rush and the, oh my gosh, I can't believe we pulled through that. I absolutely loved Vermintide 2. I thought it was a ton of fun. The Warhammer universe, I'll be honest, I'm not a Warhammer guy, but I like it. I just am not super into the lore like I know some people are. But dude, sci-fi, fantasy, dark mix, I love that stuff. My brain instantly is just drawn to that.
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So honestly, thank you to everybody that has reached out to us and just said, yo, I love these because, you know, that that was the goal is to to be able to do this, keep it entertaining and kind of give people a look at the people that are behind the games on those as well. So we'll definitely have more of those in the future.
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And so they came out and they said, hey, you know what? Vermintide 2 went really good. We are announcing Warhammer 40K Darktide. And I went, oh, my gosh, guys, like they're making another one. And this one's not just melee weapons. You get guns and you can be the big ogre guy and you can be these different classes and all that. I remember being super excited.
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And then they started letting people play it in kind of early access or play tests. And the response was not good. And I remember going like, no, no, this is like the perfect game for like three or four friends to hop into. I have been keeping my eye on Darktide for the last two or three years. Sadly, it's one of those things where I have not heard a lot of good things about it.
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The developer even came out and said, listen, we're sorry, man. We get it. It's not jiving with people, so we're going to fix it. And in the last thing I checked dark tide, it seemed like they had fixed a lot of the stuff that was going on there. Um, and it just looks like a really good time to me.
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I know that like gear and progression and some of that stuff was really a lot of the stuff that like people were complaining about. The gameplay always seemed to be a lot of fun, but it was just the, like, why do I continue to play this? Because there's just not a lot there. So, um, I think it's in a good place. I don't know that for a fact.
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Maybe it's just my optimism for like wanting a fun game to play with people. Yeah. But you know, this is one where I'm curious. So if you have played dark tide and you think it's good, let me know if it's like one of those things where it's like, dude, as cool as it looked, you should probably just stay away. Let me know too. So I don't make the mistake of sinking a bunch of time into it.
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But yeah, this is, it just ticks all the boxes for me. you know, fun with buddies slaying hordes and hordes of stuff. Really cool atmosphere because I, you know, I like that kind of stuff. Um, I just worry, you know, and the, and the problem is, is that right now it's sitting at a 70% on steam with 80, we'll just call it 88,000 reviews. Okay.
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So it's like, yeah, but in the last 30 days it's sitting at an 80% with 900 reviews. So it's like, is it getting better?
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We probably will not have four of them in a row kind of thing like that. But, but yeah, we're, we're super excited for, like I said, this was our promise to the listeners, right? Is we're going to try to up the game. We're going to try to bring you more awesome content. And the only thing we ask is that you join us for the ride and bring a friend along, man.
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No, that's Vermintide. This one, I don't know. I think you fight various factions in the Warhammer universe, which I think is what a lot of people loved. Vermintide, you only fought the rats. I was going to say, Jack's going to be upset with us, man. Oh, I know.
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Yeah. So I, it's one of those games that dark tide, I've just always been curious about. And I think I will, you know, so cool.
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That's the best thing people can do is tell people about the podcast. Leave us a review. We have a couple we're going to read here in just a second.
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You know how people say, hey, have you played Red Dead 2? Have you played Cyberpunk 2077? Have you played God of War? Have you played... And people talk about the greats. Dude, Elden Ring is in that conversation, dude.
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But see, here's the thing. I never played Bloodborne, right? I've played Sekiro. I've played every single Dark Souls game that is out there, right? I never played Bloodborne. I don't know that I would like Bloodborne. Like legitimately, as much as I like the Dark Souls games, I have heard that Bloodborne is super hard and super frustrating.
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And while it may have some really good mechanics to it, I have heard a lot of people say, dude, Bloodborne just wasn't for me. You know, and and it's one of those things where there is no game in the world. like Elden Ring. And I get that there's a lot of people that just go, well, it's just a bigger Souls-like game, but it's not. The open world that exists in Elden Ring is second to none, dude.
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And, uh, you know, just rate the show and join our community, man. That's, that's really all we ask in return. So, um, speaking of reviews, Ryan, we get a chance to get back to a couple of them, buddy.
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And yes, you have to be okay with fighting a boss maybe 20 times. But the thing with Elden Ring, the beauty of it is, and this is where I think Bloodborne goes wrong, is if you fight a boss 15 times and you never get him to half health... just go away. Yeah. Like legitimately just go away because you can do that so easily.
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You were not locked into like, you have to just slam your head against this fight. If you, if you're not getting anywhere, just go away, go explore. You will find so many incredible, fantastical things that it's not like you, you don't feel like you're grinding. You don't feel like it's just, it's incredible.
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I get it. And it's confusing, but the story in Elden Ring is your gameplay. Like, your gameplay where you're like, what the heck is that over there? I'm the story? You are the story, yes. Like, the fact that you're wandering around and you find some little cave and you're like, dude, what's that over there?
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And you go in and it's a giant dungeon. And it's like, you could have walked past that and never seen it, man. Yeah. You know, it's just, there's nothing like it, dude. There's nothing like it.
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Yes. Okay. Well, I will play with you. The only problem is, is that I don't want to wreck everything. So I might hold back a little bit, but if it gets you to play Elden Ring dude and get hooked in it, like I'll jump in with you in a heartbeat, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
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All right. Listen, we're running a little low on time. So I'm going to speed this up a little bit. I dove into this game for a little while. So, you know, there are some games where it's like, hey, I dabbled in this when I bought it and then I got busy doing something else. But I really want to kind of go back and play more.
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There is a game out there that is one of the best space games that I think I've experienced in a really long time. It has some of the best visuals I have seen in a space game. It has some of the best combat I have seen in a space game. And it is like a giant space RPG where your ship is your character and you can get all kinds of upgrades to this thing.
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If you want lightning guns, you can get lightning guns. If you want... Different types of ships where you're like a little ship that can cloak and avoid enemies or you want to go with a big bruiser ship that's got turrets on it. You can do that. It lets you fly on planets. So it's not just outer space. You can actually kind of cruise through planets and even in dungeons in planets.
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Like I'm telling you, this game has it all. And that is a game called Everspace 2. I played the initial Everspace, which is a roguelike game, and I fell in love with it. And then they came out and they said, listen, we want to take everything we learned from Everspace and we want to turn it into this gigantic space RPG that just is almost hundreds of hours with how much content you have.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
And I remember tracking the development. I bought it on release and I played it. This game is something else, man. I cannot encourage people enough that like this kind of game to look at Everspace 2. If the trailers don't draw you in because this game is gorgeous, I don't know what else does.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
But man, I'm telling you, the upgrade pass, the fact that you can go on planets, the storylines involved, you meet people, it's just fantastic, dude. This is one of those games I really, really want to get back into because I think this is just one of those hidden gems, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
Just watch the trailer for Everspace 2. It was an indie developer. They're small. I don't know how they made this game look so beautiful. Number one, you guys know I love good graphics and stuff. The combat in this game, I have never seen a space game that can be played so well with mouse and keyboard. Yeah. Like... A lot of people think you need a joystick or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
I played Everspace 2 with mouse and keyboard. I've never seen a game that nailed the controls like Everspace 2 did with that. Because it's like, who can fly with a mouse, dude? That's really weird. You're picking it up and you're slamming it down and trying to move it over and over and over again just so you can keep going in one direction. And it's like, they just nailed it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
All right, what else you got, Ryan? Let's hit a couple quick hitters here.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. It really, you said it and we have said it before, but there is nothing like seeing a new review pop up and the kind words that people say. And then to realize that we get to kind of be a part of their lives. Yeah. You know, we're at the gym with them. We're, we're mowing the lawn with them. We're on their commute to work with them. And I mean, that is awesome, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
Don't do that to me, man. Don't. I'm a weak man. I will do it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
cares about avowed who cares about kingdom come deliverance rust we're on rust baby oh man we're gonna get we'll round up paul's rust character again and oh my gosh okay so we we're not gonna have time to get to these but i did have games that i really want to dive back into soon on my list and i'm just gonna say like i have three i have balder's gate three yeah i have the apocalypse run on remnant 2 because it's the hardest level and i literally have rust
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
and it would take very, very little to get me back into Rust right now, man. I've kind of had the itch.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
Oh, my goodness, man. And the fact that you've never played Rust is the best. I need you to know the joys and the, oh, my gosh, this is the best thing ever. We just tricked that dude and robbed his base. But then you're going to know the heartbreak of the, oh, I freaking hate this game, man. This is the worst. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
All right. I mean, the only other one on my list, Witchfire. It's one of those games I bought the early access. I think it's a fantastic game. I have not checked it out in probably six months. I've heard it's come a long way, and they're ready to do the full release. I think Witchfire is a top-notch fun game. It is Dark Souls with guns.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
It is a roguelike where you get kind of stronger and stronger, but... The gunplay and just the gameplay in Witchfire is fantastic. So highly recommend people check that out. And then the only other one on my actual backlog was a Plague Tale Innocence. I think these games are very story based. They have some gameplay like but I've kind of heard the gameplay can.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
That's like the breaking point for people. Like if you if you don't like the gameplay part, you probably still like the story part. but I've never played any of the Plague Tale games. And I know Plague Tale Requiem came out, I think last year and kind of got a lot of praise from people there too. So yeah, that's it for me for my backlog games also. So dude, okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
We absolutely love it. It's the reason we do this. So, well, I'll tell you what, I'll start off with this one, Ryan. This is a good one. This one comes in from Gregosaurus and it's titled one above all from your favorite Raptor.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
One last question, Ryan, out of all the games you talked about, what's the one that is at the top of your list that you were like, dude, if I was going to install one of these right now and I knew that I didn't have any other games to play, I would play this one.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
The beauty of Rust is you can have any number of people, dude. Because you can have a clan of like 20 people, dude. We could own the server.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
There's a cream for that, I think. Oh, my goodness, man. Dang it. All right. Well, like you said, dude, this is the joy of backlog games. Listen, if you have a backlog of games and there are games on your backlog that you're like, man, this is one I need to play. Or you want to tempt us into starting a rust game. server, getting a clan going.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
It probably wouldn't take much at this point, but come tell us. We have the best gaming community out there. We say it almost every episode. At some point, we need to put together a list of the people that were like, I heard you guys talking about this all the time, and oh my goodness, you're right. I found my home. That kind of stuff is ridiculous, man. So We really just want that to grow.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
And it says in a world with easily over a million podcasts and countless ways to pass the time in your day, I am beyond confident in saying that this show is in fact one above all. Above all the other shows, the quality of this content does not easily dry or get repetitive. Above all the others, there are no hosts that truly care about the connections made along the way.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
We want awesome people. We want gamers that aren't toxic. We don't want people that are arguing over politics and things like that. So if you're that kind of person and you want other awesome gamers to interact with, boy, do we have the place for you. And if you are one of those awesome gamers, we want you there as well. The link is in the episode description. It's free to join.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
sometimes awesome-looking games like Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 and Avowed released within just a week or two of each other? Whatever the cause, we all have that backlog of games we've been meaning to get to, and today we're talking about a ton of games in our backlogs that still have our eyes and attention, if maybe not our time to actually play them.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
Come hang out with us. I think we're almost up to like a thousand gamers now, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
This is not the guy that has four people in his Discord server and it gets really awkward because you join and then you're kind of like, now I got to leave and they're going to see me leave. So give it a shot. That's all we're saying. And then come share what your backlog of games is as well. I didn't answer the question, Ryan, so I'm going to answer that real quick. Sunless Skies.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
I think that's the game I actually will wind up dabbling into very, very soon.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
I need to see what it is. It might be nothing, but it might be something for me. So I think that's the one I'm actually going to wind up installing here. Um, but yeah, that's it for this episode. Listen, if you've been enjoying the podcast, make sure you rate us five stars on Spotify. If you're on Apple, leave us a review and we will read it on the show, uh, at some point.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
And you know, if you've been listening to this podcast for a little while, if you love what we've been doing and you go, you know what, man, I'm in boys think about supporting the show. It really does help us out. It, it is the reason that we are able to continue doing this after like four years, uh, Um, we're trying to up our game. We're bringing you an extra episode every week.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
We're about to start bringing you video, um, due to popular demand. I mean, we've got a ton of upgrades that we're doing, but we need your support. Honestly, we need it to kind of keep being able to raise this thing up to the next level. And you can support us over at multiplayer squad.com for as little as five bucks a month, but honestly, every single supporter matters.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
Um, so, you know, take a second to think about doing that cause it really does help. So, um, That is it for this episode. I'm going to install sunless skies. Don't make me install rust, Ryan. Don't do it. But also I would love, I would love to do 92%. We'll see you guys later until next time. Happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
Above all the others, there is no community that has made me feel like I belong. This is not just a show with two friends. This is one big family that's going on an incredible journey together. And I will never get tired of being excited for the next chapter. Thank you for making all of this possible. Thank you for keeping what I believe to be the spirit of gaming alive. The true friendships.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
All the best. Your favorite Raptor. Oh, man. That's a good review, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
Love you too, Solid A. I love you, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
What if we just figured it out, though?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
He was like, you guys, I'm not solid, eh? This is solid, eh?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
See, we might be slow, but we'll get there eventually. Oh, God. Oh, well, Ryan, I am excited for this episode, man. This is something that every gamer in the world can relate to. You know, it's that backlog, right? Yep. I mean, it is the games that we pick up on sale. And, you know, I poked fun at Steam, but I think Steam is the biggest culprit because it's like, I can pick up this game for $3?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
Oh, dude, yeah. Like, okay. Yeah. Epic Game Store giving away free games all the time. And it's like, sure, I'll pick that up for free. Oh, yeah, I'll pick that one up for free, too. And before you know it, we've got this huge backlog of games. Now, I do want to preface this by saying that we are including games that we have 100% meant to play as well in that backlog.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
Because I don't think that the sole qualifier is that it has to be sitting in your library forever. Yeah, exactly. We all have those games where it's like, dude, I absolutely meant to pick this game up. I absolutely will play this game at some point as well. So we are leaving a little bit of wiggle room there for just some of those games that will always be on our radar.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
You know, as far as that goes. So, I mean, a lot of these games literally are sitting in my Steam library or on Epic Game Store at the same time. But we just we kind of wanted to leave a little bit of that leeway there because we all have those games, man. It's like the game you missed and you're like, I will play that game at some point.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
And I think one of the fun things for this is is it's like you're going to see a wide range of games here as well, which is really cool. And then one of our favorite things about this podcast is is like we don't get paid to like tell people to play video games.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
It's going to be a gaming-packed episode with some seriously good titles, so get ready. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, when I asked him what his games and his backlog were, he said, Diablo 2, Diablo 2 Lord of Destruction, and Diablo 2 Resurrected. What do you mean? Ew.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
But I absolutely love when somebody like hears us talk about a game, picks it up and then it's like, guys, I picked this game up because I heard you talking about it. And I freaking love this game. Yeah. Like that, it's like, again, we talk about that just like warm, happy feeling, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
And it's like, what better thing as gamers than to like put a game in front of somebody, have them, you know, experience it and then have them like share that joy of playing that game. Like, We complain about games we hate, but the opposite is true. It's like we love hearing about games that people are passionate about and they love at the same time.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
So hopefully you might pick up a game out of this episode that's like, oh yeah, I forgot I wanted to play that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
To look at these games. We were talking about it. We're like, all right, man, we're back to our bonus rounds. We're back to just talking about games and stuff. And we were like, this was actually, again, this was a recommendation from our community where the people said, hey, we have a channel on our Discord server where it's like, hey, recommend some show ideas and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
And so this was a recommendation. But we instantly were like, oh, man, that would be so fun to talk about. But then at the same time, like, dude, we're playing Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 right now. We're getting ready for a deep dive on that one. Avowed is releasing tomorrow for people that didn't get the early access option for that. So it's like...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
I don't need 10 more games that I'm dying to play, like taking up brain space, man. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, all right. Well, let's get into this, man, because there are some fun games. Now, you and I did share our lists together because there's no surprises, you know, or hiding things on this one. And we actually had two games that we overlapped on. We did.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
So let's start with those first, because I think it's just fun to say, hey, we're both kind of amped to play this. This first one, I will fully say, I don't know that I'm going to like this game. I have heard so many mixed reviews about this game. I have heard people say, dude, I don't get it. It's a walking simulator. I've never played a more boring game in my life.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
I don't understand why people want to be a package delivery guy that is stumbling around and trying not to just spill things everywhere. This is the most frustrating, boring game I've ever seen. And then you see people go, dude, this game is something special. It's unique. It's Hideo Kojima. You know, what's not to love? And that is a game called Death Stranding.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
Now, you and I have never played this game. We both own it. I know it's in our libraries because we picked it up for free when the Epic Game Store gave it away. We were both like, ooh, I'll take that. So what is it about Death Stranding that makes you interested?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
Because I'll go into that in a little bit, but I wanted to preface, I have some serious concerns about whether I'm going to like this game or not.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
I I'm very curious, like legitimately, this is probably the game that's on my list where I go. I feel like I'm either going to despise this game or I'm going to actually see why people love it. I will say this. You made me play Metal Gear Solid five. And in playing that, I remember the introduction and I remember the flaming Pegasus and all the weird characters.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
And I remember watching the all these cut scenes and just going like, what is this
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
game man what are these cut scenes like what the heck is going on um and so it was one of those things where but i liked it it was so weird that i'm like i liked it you know and with death stranding i feel like it has a lot of that hideo kojima like just like feel to it so it's like i mean if you've watched any of the trailers even when when it like got announced people were like what the
Video Gamers Podcast
The Backlog Games Bonanza - Gaming Podcast
is this man weird baby in a backpack weird sludge creatures this odd world and all that i think the main complaint is the gameplay but yeah death stranding is there and i i know that you and i both have gone like we need to play this game at some point yeah no absolutely yeah it's way up there you know uh who knows when we'll get to it because i know the the next one's coming out at some point um but you know we shall see i guess yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Okay. Brian and I played a lot of the beta. We did. We both liked it a lot. Spiders. Spider bots. Call of Duty with one magical ability, I think, is a ton of fun. I'll say 14. I will go 17.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
All right, I'll concede it to Ryan for $22. For the record, I really wanted both of these games, and they just went a little higher than I was willing to pay.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
All right. Well, I think that makes it my turn to nominate a game. I'm going to throw a little bit of a monkey wrench in this. I am going to nominate a game that is rumored to come out this year, but it is not yet confirmed. So this is a little bit of a... Yeah. Well, high risk for several reasons. What if I told you a game had been in development hell for quite some time? Oh, boy.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
But it's one of my favorite series. I'm going to nominate Dragon Age Dread Wolf. Oh. follow up to inquisition one of my all-time favorite games i love dragon age bioware kind of sucks now this game's been delayed and delayed and revamped over and over i am not really all that confident but i'm gonna throw out dragon age dread wolf for three dollars
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
25? Dang! That's more than next to five. Dude, that could be the steal of the draft.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
And Ryan doesn't even like Dragon Age.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I'm already reeling a little bit. Legit, my strategy was leave this draft with Dragon's Dogma 2, Extifiant, and Dread Wolf, and I didn't get any of them.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I do have on my list... All the games that I think Josh would want. And now I'm just hoping I'm going to be able to get some of those on the cheap. So I'm just adjusting my strategy on the fly.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
All right. Ryan, we're back to you for nomination. What's coming up? Ooh.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
All right. Before we jump into our bonus round, which, by the way, is our first bonus round since January 1st. It has been a minute.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
And this is the expansion, and it's almost as big as its own sequel. It's going to be so good. I have this in Tier 1. Do you have this in Tier 1, Josh?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I've got it in Tier 1 with Dragon Stogma 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Ryan's waiting to pounce. I'll go 59.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Put your money where your mouth is.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
That's a guaranteed... This is one of the few games that is guaranteed to be beloved by everyone. There's a 0% chance that this is bad. Yeah, I know.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
All right. Well, with that being said, let's take our first break and then we'll come right back and continue the auction. All right, we are back from break. I'm freaking tilting already, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I have not been this excited for an episode in quite some time. Josh, I think you're going to kick us off by reading a couple of listener reviews.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
That's why I said 59. Dang it! I was hoping you'd say 60, and then I'd be done.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
All right, well... All right. Well, we are now back to Josh. You get to nominate the next one, buddy. Senua's Saga, Hellblade 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Dude, they're adding tons of combat. That was my only beef with the first one. This is going to be a great game. It's tier one for me. I've got it in tier one.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Am I going to, I told you I'm going to end up with all your favorite games.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
whoa what nice i like it coming out of the peanut gallery uh i'm out i think it's a fair price dude brian's team looks banger if i let him have this one already then 42 ryan 45 oh nice for the record i wrote down 60 is where i thought this would go 47
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
You can have it. I think $50 is not a bad price at all.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Okay. So we need to make Ryan spend some money. Is that what we're worried about? Go ahead. Do it, Paul. Do it. There's two huge ones that Ryan would be so glad to get. I'm going to throw out... You know what? Let's stick with the big boys. Ryan, you said this was your most anticipated of the whole year back in January. Let's see what we're going to do about Star Wars Outlaws.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
What are you sitting quiet for, Josh?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I'm going to make you jump in on this, Josh. I'm not out, but I'm not bidding right now.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I don't like giving it to you at that price, Ryan, but I'm going to. Yes! Again, that's kind of high risk, high reward there.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I could definitely see it getting pushed back as well. Some kind of delay or something. All right. So star Wars outlaws 47 is down to 50.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Probably not. Uh, speaking of which Ryan, we are back to you. What are you going to nominate next? Uh,
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
i will just say i'm out i think 22 is fair if you said like 19 i might say 20 at 22 though i i i think that's where it probably should be and i don't want to overpay i'm out you can have it i think that game's gonna be disappointed man dude i love my team you guys ryan's feeling good i can tell all right rise of the run-in for 22 Love it. All right. Not bad, dude. Ryan's got five games.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Josh and I each have one.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
It is your turn, Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I did say I felt like the two surefire Game of the Year nominees were Dragon's Dogma 2 and Black Mets Wukong.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
69 for Black Myth Wukong. You know what? I'm going to let you take it for 69.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
So you've got six games that you have $57.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
You have gone full boomer bus.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
You did get two great ones. Okay. All right. We are back to me for nominations. So I could just throw out 58 on any game and it's mine. So I do kind of like that. You know what? Let's go for... A game that I think all three of us are interested in. I know Ryan certainly is, although I know he's kind of low on some funds here. I'm going to nominate Metal Gear Solid Delta Snake Eater.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Remake of Metal Gear Solid 3. Classic. Absolute classic game. Ryan absolutely loves it.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
No, but I'll start the bidding at... It's a remake. I will say I'm going to automatically kind of lower value of remakes. I'm going to say $15 to start.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I've got one game. I'm just hoping for a ton of value here at the end because I'm picking up the garbage at the end. Where are we at right now? Seventeen? Seventeen.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
You get to eat poisonous frogs in this game, Josh. That's all you need to know. All right. Metal Gear Solid Delta for $20. Not bad. I like the value there. It's less than Dragon Age, which might not even release. So I'll take it. All right, Ryan, coming back around to you, buddy. All righty. Let's see here. We have not even touched... Well, okay, I'm not going to say anything.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
All of a sudden, I'm like, maybe I shouldn't say that.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Do you want me to make a suggestion? Well, never mind. Yeah, no, no, go ahead. Feel free, bud. I don't want to let Josh sweep up some games like Stormgate, Hades 2, Hyper Lightbreaker.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
John's been joining us recently on the pod. I am about 95% sure this is a troll job. If they know how many episodes were released in a week, they know your name is Josh. I just have to say that I, I think this is one of the funniest reviews we've ever read. Yeah. I just love that they call you John, not just once, but twice.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Paul, I'm just listening to you guys. Is there some worry that it might kind of be like Hades 1.5? In the footage I've seen, I don't know that I've seen a whole lot new.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
We are in the age of roguelikes. Everyone's releasing them.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I'm not going to bid on Hades. No, I'm out. I'm out.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, buddy. And Josh, you're definitely the biggest Hades fan. I played it. I liked it. But you liked it a lot more.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
man, Brian's looking really good. Uh, just to summarize, cause I know our listeners are probably having trouble tracking this. Ryan currently has X defiant dragon age for hell blade to star Wars outlaws rise of the Ronin and Hades too. And he's got, uh, $17 for two last games. Josh only has the two heavy hitters, Dragon's Dogma 2, Black Myth Wukong.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I've got Shadow of the Earth Tree and Metal Gear Solid Snake Eater, which might have been like your two most favorites, weirdly. They ended up on mine.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I hear you. Yeah, very true. All right. Well, let's go one or two more nominees, and then we'll take our last break. Who nominated Hades? That was Ryan, right? That was me. All right, Josh, we're back to you.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
You're not paying 47 for this.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
This is you driving up the price. This is you driving.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
All right. I had to make him spend some money. Good job.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I'm calling it now. End of the year. We're going to say that was a steal at 50. Probably.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I'm out. I'll take it for seven in a heartbeat. Seven's not bad. Ryan? You can have it.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
You bought a telltale.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Well, yeah. It's like a lottery pick at the end of the draft. I'm not going to spend like $30 on it.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
For all the people who know what it is, they'll say that's a good price. And for everyone else, they're probably just, I have no idea what that is. All right. Well, let's go ahead and take our last break, and then we'll come back and finish this auction. All right. We are back. Josh, you feeling any better about Wolf Among Us 2?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Do you feel like you got swindled?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
He's hyping it up, and then he's like, wait, what did I buy? I don't know what I bought. You bought a game about fairy tales, like The Big Bad Wolf.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I would love to know what Josh would be saying if I bought it for eight.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Who doesn't want guns and attack helicopters in the 1500s?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Come on, Ryan. You only got 17 bucks left. Is this where you want to spend your money?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Kingmakers could just be like four days of fun and no one ever hears of it again.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
It's just going to die.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I will say 10 was my absolute limit. I would not have gone 11.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
If I had to pick Wolf Among Us 2 versus Kingmakers for almost the same price, I feel better about Kingmakers. I will say that. All right, Josh, your nominee. I don't know, man. Whose idea was this stupid draft?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
All 10? Yeah. Ryan, come on, dude. You can jump in here. Stellar Blade, you got no interest? No way. No jiggle physics for me. Stellar Blade for 10 is the bid? Yep. Yeah, I'm out. That's yours, Josh. Oh, yes!
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
We did talk about this on This Week in Gaming, and you were enamored by it, Josh. Me less so.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I was enamored by the gameplay. Sure, I bet. Yeah, to me, it kind of just felt like Steel Rising or Nier Automata. To me, it was kind of like in those... It's kind of like copying another game, but not as good.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
So we did dabble in a little bit of video back in the day. It is a lot of work to do video editing.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
We all know what it is. Is it a five-word game? you're not getting it you're not getting that one guaranteed what did you what did you bet is that the one you're trying to wait me out for josh oh yeah what is it at what is it at five dollars yeah what do you spend your 17 on ryan this is your game not this i don't want it i don't want it Wait, I have to choose whether or not to bid this up. What?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
How much is it? Five dollars. Oh, you know. Oh, do it. I don't want this game. No, no. Are you out?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Terrible name aside, yeah. All right, Ryan, we're back to you.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
It's been a while since Hayden Scott drafted.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
There are two that I really, really want. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Trying to make each other blink. I'm out. Are you really out, Ryan? Yeah. You got 17 bucks, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
What was the bid? Seven? Seven bucks. Dude, I'm like a goldfish.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I just immediately forget.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Five for Indy Jones.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
okay i think that's fair i'm just looking at the bank of games and i'm like i just see other stuff i'd probably rather grab but i think that's a really good value for sandland yeah i thought it was gonna go around 15 was was my guess uh who nominated sandland that was ryan so it's me okay yeah you know what no more beating around the bush boys i'm going space marine 2 okay for ten dollars i see your strategy josh
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
16. 57 for me, minus 32 for Josh. I can't go over 25.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
That's a good value.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I think $20 will probably be a great value for that.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. If only I had that. My turn to nominate. I'm going to go ahead.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I'm not poor anymore. Now you're the poorest.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got one more.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Not bad. Yeah. Somehow you all of a sudden have the biggest team, Josh. You drafted a few in a row there. Yeah. All right. Well, it's time to go for no rest for the wicked. And I'll say five.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
You can't bid. No, I have 17.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I'll take it. Dang it. All right. No rest for the wicked.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I was hurting bad when I watched Dragon's Dogma 2 and Black Myth Wukong go. I know. And I just thought, I just got to hope I get one of those tier one or tier twos at a really good value. Alright, no rest for the wicked ghost for 17. Not bad.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, exactly. Alright, so... Is it back to me? It is, yep. Alright, I only got a couple tier 2 games left. Let me make sure I'm not forgetting anything here. Boy, you know some people are going crazy saying like... Why are you guys not drafting Homeworld 3? What about this game? What about that game? We got some good stuff out here still. I am going to nominate... Boy.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I'm worried Ark 2 might not release this year. It's going to release this year. I'm really worried.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Good job, dude. Well done. Arc 1, beloved. I'm kind of just banking on that with Arc 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
We all agreed we would be hyped for an Arc 2. We'd be curious to see what they do. $11 doesn't feel like an expensive lottery ticket on that one.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
i would have loved if the guy said i just started listening two days ago and i love paul josh and ryan like even got the name right that early all right so let's let's also talk a little bit about how people can help support the show writing reviews is very helpful it helps people discover our show we really appreciate it ryan why don't you tell the people a little bit about support through patreon i
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
That's a value pick right there, I think. Yeah. All right, Ryan, back to you for nomination.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I hate to say it, but I'm out.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I was going to say, I thought he said $5, but... All right, Ryan, you got 12 bucks left. Josh has 14. I've got 32. All right. Interesting pick. I did not know if home world three would go or not in this draft. Josh coming back your way where wins meet $14. Dang it, Paul.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
All right. Where wins me? Did I say 15? Yeah. Dude, I really need to pay attention to these numbers. I'm sure our listeners are screaming right now. Come on, Paul. You said it three seconds ago. All right. My nomination. Let's see. Ooh, I could just grab any game I want left on the list. You could. I don't like it either. Part of me is thinking...
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
um there are some good ones still on this list too i feel like little nightmares 3 is worth a decent amount of money i think the until dawn remake is worth it i think stormgate is up there i'm gonna say silent hill 2 remake and i'm just gonna go ahead and grab it okay sweet because that's all the money I got left. So 18 for Silent Hill 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Pick something Josh wants, and then you get whatever you do, or... Yeah, how's this going to go down?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Princess Peach Showtime is still available.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Super Monkey Ball, Banana Rumble. Dude, I freaking love. Who doesn't love Super Monkey Ball?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
South Park Snow Day legit could end up being a pretty funny game too. There's some good ones.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Ryan, I'm shocked. Well, I don't want to put you on. No, go ahead. Go ahead. Stalker 2? Wasn't this like your game? Yeah, it's highlighted. Okay. I want to make sure you didn't forget about it in case. I didn't, but... If Josh says he's out, you're stuck with this as your last game. I know.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
And you got enough money, so either one's yours.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Wait, call it by the full name. No, I'm not doing it. It's gross. Come on, say it.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
You have to do this when you say circle.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I'm drawing a circle, people out there. Great name. Love it. All right, so let's review here. Ryan, you're coming in with X Defiant at 22, Dragon Age 4, 25. Hellblade 2 for $50, Star Wars Outlaws $47, Rise of the Ronin $22, Hades 2 for $17, Homeworld 3 for $5, and Stalker 2 for $12. You pretty happy with your team? Anything in particular you like or don't like?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I'm going to say Ryan's team is a B+.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Oh, okay. I feel like Ryan's is the most volatile of the list. It could very well be the best or the worst.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I think Stalker 2 is a little bit of a gamble, but we'll see.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
All right, Josh has the two heavy hitters, the two most expensive games, both on your roster. Dragon's Dogma 2 at $68. Black Myth Wukong $69. The Wolf Among Us, which you've never heard of, for $7. Stellar Blade for $10. Indiana Jones and the Circle Thing for $5. Sandland for $7. Warhammer 40K Space Marine 2. That could be the steal of the draft.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
And then following up with Hollow Knight Silksong.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
$14, you got that one. Mine, I'm coming in with Shadow of the Erdtree for $59. Metal Gear Solid Delta Snake Eater for $20. Avowed for $50. Kingmakers for $10. That's a little bit of a lottery pick. No Rest for the Wicked, $17. That could also be the steal of the draft. That could be, yeah, I know. Arc 2 for $11, Where Winds Meet $15, and Silent Hill 2 for $18.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I kind of feel like I have the Moneyball team. I don't have the highest heavy hitters, but it's like, oh, you grabbed a lot.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
yeah interestingly ryan has the most games that are 20 or higher josh and i only have three each ryan you've got five games that went for 20 or higher so ryan's a little bit more top heavy yeah i'm very curious to see where this goes i honestly feel like any one of us could have could finish one two or three i gotta ask since we're doing it and we're looking at our list what what is your favorite pickup for your draft for the price
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
No rest for the wicked at 17.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
That's pretty good. That's a pretty good deal. That's pretty good, dude. Yeah. In hindsight, do we think Dragon's Dogma 2 for 68 is a fair price? I think so. I kind of wish I went 69 on that one.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I'm going to say for me, it's Kingmakers, but it was my cheapest game. So, like, that's not the worst thing in the world.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, same way Homeworld was Ryan's cheapest.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I don't. I think it's going to be a disaster. You think so?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
We'll see. I think so.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Very true. All right. And I love Indiana Jones. Well, I think this was a lot of fun. I think the intention behind this is to do this every year at the beginning of the year and then revisit it. So this year, missed a couple of good games, but that's all right. At least we only missed two months out of the year. And moving forward, we're going to try to do this annually.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I don't, I feel like we did a good job wrapping everything up. You know, we do want to let everyone know as a reminder, please make sure to swing by our Patreon support page. You can sign up for bonus episodes, all those perks that Ryan mentioned earlier in the episode. You can do that at multiplayer squad.com.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Absolutely. Thanks, Ryan. Alright, so let's talk a little bit about what we are doing today. Now, this might sound a little foreign to our listeners. We have not done anything quite like this on our show before. We are going to be holding an auction draft where each of us has a fake budget of $200. And we are going to be drafting our most anticipated games for 2024.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Also make sure to rate our show five stars, join our free discord server, follow us on socials everywhere at video gamers pod. Thank you so much to everyone for listening until next time. Happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Now, of course, we should have done this in January. Totally slipped our mind. So we are not going to be drafting any games that have already released. So apologies to Helldivers 2 and Palworld. You know, those are games that are already released. We're not making them eligible today. But any games that are releasing from March 8th on when we're recording this is eligible.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
We are not going to be drafting games that have already been in early access long term. So, for example, Satisfactory has been in early access. They are releasing 1.0 this year. We felt like that doesn't really honor the spirit of the draft. That's already been out for ages. So if a game is entering early access or if it's releasing this year, that is what we are drafting.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
We have a lot of games that have set release dates. We have a lot of games that are supposed to come out this year, but part of the strategy is also going to be maybe guessing at some games that we haven't yet heard, but maybe they will come out this year. And each of us has to draft a total of eight games for, We are going to take turns just nominating a game and how much we're nominating it for.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
We have a chance to start bidding wars with one another. We'll see how much each of these games go for. But you do have to fill out a full roster of eight games each. And then we will post our final teams on socials, get some voting going on, see who we think won.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers. Welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast, hosted by three lifelong gamer dads. We have something very special for you all today. It's actually an idea that we've kicked around several times and somehow kept forgetting about it. Today is finally the day. This is going to be our inaugural annual auction of our most anticipated games of the year. I am your host, Paul.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
And then at the end of the year, that's when the real fun comes in, because we'll be able to revisit this and maybe laugh at some of our choices or, you know, Josh, I can't believe you drafted, you know, Silk Song. It's still not out this year. Can you believe it? You know, it'll be very fun to revisit at the end of the year. So. I'm really excited about this idea.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I think our listeners who have played fantasy football, maybe they've done fantasy auction drafts like I have. And these can be so much more fun than the traditional drafts that we do. Because here, every game is eligible for everybody. It's just whether or not you're willing to pony up the dough.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Well, since this is the first time we've done this, we don't know what market value is. Are the highest games going to end up being around 30, or is it going to be 70? This is the first time we've ever done it. Now, one last question before we get going, you can decide whether or not you want to share any details, but do you guys have an actual strategy going into this?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Because like in fantasy football, there's multiple strategies like blow all your money on three or four really good players and then just pick up a bunch of lottery tickets and try to piece together a team or go for a whole bunch that are across the board, like B pluses. Like, do you guys have any actual strategy? Oh, I do.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
And joining me, do we have a starting bid of a dollar? Do I hear a dollar? One dollar, people. One dollar. No? It's Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Oh, very nice. I did almost exactly the same as you, Josh. I divided all... We do have a bank of eligible games, so that way there's no surprises.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
yeah super nerds i've got tier one games tier two tier three and then i have do not bid whatsoever and i'm just looking for value i wrote down here's what i think these are going to go for i even put together some possible teams like realistically i think this might be what i can put together for 200 bucks so i have a little bit of guidance here i'm very curious to see where this goes
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
And what's great is all that prep, throw it out the window. None of it matters once you open up the draft. So it's ultimately a waste of time, but I still find it fun. I love it. All right. So the nomination order will be Ryan, then John. I mean, Josh. And then me.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
That'll be the order. And we'll just keep going around until everyone's got a full squad. So, Ryan, you get the honors, buddy. Who's going to be the first game ever nominated in our auction?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Ooh, do I want to go above 62? What are you thinking, Ryan? Are you in or are you out?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
Nice. Nice. In my head, I was like, I will go 67. I'm not going a dollar higher. What's weird is that could still be a steal. I really do think that.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
All right. I saw some games you added to our bank that I had never heard of.
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
I'm like, okay, just take it for a dollar. No one's going to want this. All right, Josh, you're up. What are you going to nominate?
Video Gamers Podcast
2024 Most Anticipated Games Auction Draft - Gaming Podcast
It's all sentimental value, Josh. That's what you call it. All right. And then joining us, do we have a starting bid of a dollar? Yes. Do I hear $5? Yes. The man in the back with the Helldiver shirt. Do I hear $25? Sold for $1,000. It's Ryan. For liberty and justice.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
This old guy, fittingly, this old guy with no clothes on, with gray hair that just can barely open his eyes. And I was like, okay, man, this game is going to be a good time.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So like I said, the game has a good tutorial. It kind of walks you through things. It makes you realize that there's probably a little bit further scope or scale in this game than originally thought because you get in a truck and you start driving and.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, my goodness. So, all right. So just real quick. So for anybody that doesn't follow our social media, like we made a reel from the Minecraft episode that we did where it was Ace's opinion on the movie and me talking about the fact that my kids knew that it was going to be a bad movie. For some reason, this reel has caught fire. It is going like gangbusters.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Like you said, Ryan, you know, it teaches you kind of how to avoid the police and how to find the people that you're looking for and stuff like that. So you get through the tutorial and then it puts you into the actual game itself. And this is the city where Schedule 1 takes place. It kind of drops you off. You have an RV of all cliche things that is straight out of Breaking Bad.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I mean, I'm pretty sure it's the exact RV out of Breaking Bad. They did that on purpose. And then they say, hey... Go build your empire, man. Yeah. You know? And so what's the first thing that happens, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. When's the last time you thought about the Roman Empire? Well, today we're going to be diving into the rise of the great Romane Empire. Eh? Because it's time to deep dive schedule one. A game that seemingly came out of nowhere, it's taking over the world and the hearts of wannabe entrepreneurs everywhere. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
All right, so you get dumped into this town. The game kind of points you in the right direction. It has a neat mechanic where every time that there's something new to introduce, the game, your uncle calls you. and says, Hey, I hear you're making a name for yourself. You know, here's an upgrade.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
You need to start, you know, thinking about growing your own weed and maybe distributing that to make some money. So he, you know, he always calls you on a pay phone and points you in the right direction, which I think is great. And, you know, you need a place to stay. So Ace, what's the very first place that you get in this game?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So you get this hotel room and you start realizing that, Oh, okay. This is where our base of operations is. And this is where you get to kind of plunk down, you know, grow tents and mixing stations and bagging stations and stuff like this. And this is where the kind of crafting element of schedule one comes in. Um, I'm a sucker for crafting games and progression games.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
We have said a gajillion times, I love good progression. I like crafting, even though I'm not much of a base builder kind of guy. But if you dangle a carrot in front of me and say, hey, go try to reach this step. I am just chasing, ooh, give me that. Wait, there's another strain of weed that we'll be able to unlock? How do I get there? Let me call the supplier. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And so, Ace, why don't you like kind of carry us through some of the like just the early gameplay elements? You know, maybe like, you know, like you said, you do have a supplier. There's a warehouse or a hardware store. I mean, you know, you've got your motel room kind of carry us through the very beginning, kind of getting set up and getting your feet under you on this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
The best part about this is when you are trying to build your customer base, like you said, Ace, you do have to give them a free sample. Everybody knows the first time's free, and then you got to pay.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
You were told growing up, right? Oh, the drug dealer is the first time they'll give it to you, and then you got to pay after that. Well, Schedule 1 leans into that. But the hilarious part is the first time you give something to somebody and they try it, They just instantly go from a normal person to just their eyelids are half closed, their eyes turn blood red, they start walking slower.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I mean, at the time of this recording, it's over like 60,000 views, 1,000, actually 1,100 likes. But every single comment are people that are upset with us.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
That's when you're just like, oh my goodness, this game is really just leaning into this, man. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Don't worry. Just a little bit. So anybody that enjoys a crafting progression-based type of game, Schedule 1 is very likely going to be up your alley. You know, this is what's funny to me, right, is my brother Andy, you know, his sons are gamers. You know, he's my nephew. We play a lot of games together and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Well, Andy saw that Schedule 1 was, you know, taking over the world, and he was very curious and wanted to jump in. And then the next thing you know, he's just like, dude, we are having so much fun. Like my nephew is playing like my sister, you know, is playing like she's doing all the like the house stuff, like growing the plants and all this stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
for being old guys talking about minecraft we have no business talking about minecraft and ace has gotten lumped in with us you're 24 25 i'm 25 yeah yeah and so ace has just gotten lumped in with the old guys that are me and ryan and we have just been mercilessly just picking on ace ever since then so it's been a brutal day guys yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Andy and my nephew are running around town, like slinging all this. And it's just it is that satisfying of a gameplay loop like. I thought this game was going to be dumb. It looks like Roblox-type graphics. You know, I'm just like, man, this is just going to be stupid. It's going to be dumb. But then you look at the Steam reviews, guys. I mean, one of you looked at it. What's it at right now?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
97,000 reviews? Yes. Is that a 98%? What's the percentage? The percentage is... Overwhelmingly, it's 96 and higher, I think.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
97 yeah 97 yeah that's so when you have a hundred thousand reviews on a game and a game is sitting at 97 positive rating there's very little to dislike about a game like that doesn't mean that this game is red dead redemption 2 or anything like that by any means but there probably is some truth to all of those reviews that are saying hey guys this game is just dumb fun and And it's dumb fun.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
A solo developer made Schedule One. And it's a good game, guys. I want to get into some of the fun stuff, but we've got to take a very quick break, and then we're going to come back and talk about some of the stuff that just makes this game enjoyable. All right, we're back. We're talking schedule one. We've kind of chatted about the early part of this game and getting set up.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Now, one of the things that we didn't talk about on this is that the town that you're in is a live. There is a time of day. You can do different things during different times of day. When night comes around, there is a police curfew that goes into effect. And the police are out in force.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And this is where you start to have to kind of be stealthy if you're out and about making your drug deals and selling things and stuff like that. The game gives you a phone. To kind of manage stuff. You know, don't be dumb like me and Ace and not realize that there's very important things you can do on your phone.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Like maybe if you happen to develop a new strain that you're trying to sell to people and it's worth a lot more money and you keep wondering why everybody just wants that OG Kush and they won't want to buy your nice new fancy granddaddy purple that you have. Well, that's because you probably didn't go into your little cell phone and go to the products tab and say, hey, I have this for sale now.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
We were 15 hours into this age before we realized this, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, and it would not. So the way that customers, the way that you go, because let's be honest, the sales and the actual selling of these drugs that you're making. is a major part of the game. And the way that it handles that is you get text messages from people that say, hey, I want to buy four bags of OG Kush.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Or, you know, until you figure out that you can list something different, it's just going to be OG Kush forever. And then once you list another product, they go, oh, well, I'll start buying that. So people will text you and say what they want to buy. And then you have to then say, okay, and you can negotiate pricing. So there's a little bit of like negotiation there.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And then once you confirm, they'll say, OK. And then you set a time of day that you will meet them. And then you literally have to run through town and go meet them wherever they said they'll be waiting for you. And just like any kind of drug game, there's people standing behind trees and behind this building just waiting for you.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And you walk up and, you know, you interact with them and it's time to make the deal. And you give them the however many baggies they ordered. They give you the cash. They blaze up right away and then they walk away. That's kind of the loop for the customers. But like we hinted at, they're not always happy.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And if you try to give them something that they didn't ask for or you try to short them, things can go awry. And that is where Keith comes in because this game does allow you to throw punches as well, which Ryan discovered after Keith told him, hey, I don't like your product. Ryan, what happened?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
It's the price you pay, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I'm like, yes, this is awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Keith showed up at our house, our doorstep. We had just moved. So, you know, like I mentioned, the progression, you know, you start off with this tiny little hotel room that you then can kind of move into an apartment. You then get to move into a bungalow. And it's every time you, every time you move up, you're so happy. You're like, Oh my goodness, we've got space to do what we need.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
You're out of room all of a sudden. So the house was a big step up for us, but you know, we opened the door and, And there's cracked out Keith standing on our doorstep with his eyes all bugged out. He's like, give me. I don't care, man. Just give me something. And we know at this point, Keith is crazy. So we're like, we got to get rid of Keith, man. So we just gave Keith whatever we had.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
So anyway, help us pick on Ace. Hop in our server. Wish him a happy 50th birthday. Whatever you want to do there.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And then we were scared of him. But I will say that as dumb as it is, the different characters that are wandering around town kind of help make this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, that's crank. Is that a Dan funky Dan?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
There's Jesse. Jesse is the girl that looks like she has just been living in a gutter. She's down at the end of the motel. She will buy anything that you've got for her. But I'm just like, Jesse girl, you need to get you some help, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
So that's kind of a neat point about, again, kind of towards the progression of the game and the characters that you run into is you do get to unlock people that will deal your drugs for you. Yep. So kind of explain that process and how that works and why it's such a good thing, Ace.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And Ace, to be fair, Ace did fall out of his chair just prior to us hitting record. And so the almost breaking hip part was maybe close to true.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
He would, he would go out. He'd just do his business. He takes 20%. So there is a cost to having Benji, but yeah, it was, there was nothing greater than being really low on money and then being like, Oh, let's go check our dealer, guys. And you swing by, and Benji's got 1,200 cash sitting on him. And then you're like, here you go, Benji.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
You take the money, you give him some more product, and then Benji just keeps working, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
This game does give you options on how to make your empire efficient. Later on in the game, you can hire different people to do things around your house, which we discovered you can hire a botanist to... Playing all the seeds for your marijuana plants and then water them and then harvest them.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And one of the things that we haven't talked about, and I love this aspect of this game, everything you do in this game is a mini game. Now, that doesn't mean that it's complicated because some of these are very, very simple, but... Even something like filling up a water bucket so that you can water your plants is a little minigame.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Takes you to a little screen, push the faucet, fill up the bucket, you know, that kind of stuff. Watering the plants, you got to click and hold and then kind of drag it so it tips the water pot. And then you got to move it around to these little targets and stuff like that. I love these little touches to keep people engaged. Is it busy work? No. Absolutely.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
At the same time. Exactly. It gives you something to do, but it also ties into the progression because you later on get like automatic waterers and automatic like soil distributors and things like that. So there's again that carrot where you're constantly going like, oh, my goodness, we don't have to play the stupid water mini game to keep everything like hydrated.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
But every time you do it, you realize that you're about to make money. Everything goes towards the process of you being able to sell these drugs to make money so that you can then get your upgrades that you want, get the convenience items that you want.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Well, welcome in, everybody. It is the long awaited schedule one deep dive. We this is going to be a lot of fun to talk about. We have been playing this together an awful lot. It is funny because I have friends and family that have picked this game up and they are playing like with their kids and their wives and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And at the end of every day, because you do have to sleep in your bed to kind of end a day, but you get experience points that say, hey, you go from being like a little street rat to like a hoodlum to like a dealer- And every time you go up in level, new items unlock in the game that you can purchase either from the hardware store or like a gas station.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Or maybe you finally made enough connections with the people in town that they introduce you to a new provider, like supplier. So that now you can get pseudo pills. And as soon as you get pseudo pills, you're like... Oh, we're on our way to making meth boys. I know what to do with these. And the game, this game does not shy away.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I mean, you go from, you know, selling your, your weed empire to then, you know, going into like, Hey, it's time to make more money. And how do we do that? We got to sell harder stuff. And before you know it, you're manufacturing meth and you're giving it to your dealers and you're now you're making a lot of money. But now everybody in town is starting to get a pretty severe addiction. Yep.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And you see it. And like where people start looking, they don't look so good anymore.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
So, you know, the fun part is the cops in the game. Like, honestly, they add just enough layer of like, oh, no, watch out, because if you try to there's cops that wander around all the time, even if there's not a curfew going on, there's cop checkpoints that you have to try to either sneak through or go around. I have had many a foot. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I didn't see him and I was slinging something to somebody and they saw a drug deal go down. And this is very much a kind of GTA style where you have kind of like a, you know, it'll say, Hey, you're under arrest. And then you have to flee long enough for that to kind of, you know, go away. And then you're, you're clear again.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
But the cops in the game really do add that layer of just tension because it makes it to where you can't just do whatever you want to do at any time. And so especially if you're slinging at night, you have to watch out because if you're out after curfew, if they see you at all, you're in trouble. It's on site. Yeah, exactly. And so I love that little bit of danger that it adds to the game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I like that there is that risk. Like, do I go out at night? And try to fulfill all these orders to people, but I got to dodge the cops. But if I get arrested, then they take everything that you've got, they fine you big time, and you lose everything at the same time. So I do like that risk-reward that that brings in.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Dude, I'm a sucker for it, man. I'm not going to lie. I'm the same way. We played the heck out of this game for a while, man. I mean, it was just hour sessions at a time, like hours at a time. where just we got to get this. We got to get this. And then you start making it. You're dealing meth. You're dealing this high-strain, high-value weed. You've kind of got everything just rocking and rolling.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And we have seen a ton of chatter from our community about schedule one and people asking, are you going to cover it? And it's like, yeah, we've been playing it and it is time to cover the game. I will start off this episode by saying, you know, schedule one is a game that is about being a drug dealer and growing your drug empire. You know, we are a clean podcast. We will keep things clean.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
You've got it down to a science, especially if you're playing with friends, which I highly recommend. Grab at least one buddy to play this with because that really –
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
highlights where this game shines in my opinion and that's kind of the cooperative nature because you're constantly like let's be honest this game's a little grindy right I mean you know I mean I think we all agree that it's a little grindy to plant seeds and water plants and harvest plants and bag them up and then go sell them rinse and repeat rinse and repeat until you have enough money for some kind of upgrade
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
It is great when you get that Mark two bagging station because now instead of one little bag at a time, you're doing like five at a time and it's a different mini game for that. But there is there is just an inherent grind in any kind of game like this. And when you've got a buddy. And we fell into this role perfectly, which I loved, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Like for when it was the three of us, Ryan was the drug dealer. Ryan was the guy that was running around town, slinging stuff to everybody, checking on Benji, making sure Benji's got product, collecting the money. Ace and I are doing the manufacturing. We're just cranking out the pots, you know, making sure these plants are growing as fast as possible.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I'm making runs to the hardware store, you know, and it's like, you're just, you're really able to kind of work together. You know, if you've got buddies to do it with, even Ryan, when you weren't on ACE was the guy managing the house and the grow operations. And then I was the one that was out slinging all of it, making the money, bringing back baggies. Oh my goodness.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
You're always running out of baggies.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
My wife was just like, what are you playing? You know what I mean? What are you playing? And my kids, because they're gamers, are like, oh, dad's playing Schedule 1. But, I mean, it is literally the funniest thing to just be shouting and being like, yeah, boys, we can make meth now. We're making meth. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
there are some very out of context things in our discord right now yes and what's really funny is at one point so we unlock pseudo but we don't know what to do with the pseudo we don't know where to get the pseudo so we're like well i'll just google it how to get pseudo to make meth and then i was like whoa Uh, schedule one video game, where to get more pseudo video game, schedule one video game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Oh my goodness, man. But yes, I, I will say like a lot of the people that we've talked to have just been enamored with this game, but the conversation is, you know, Jesse, you ain't looking so good, girl. You need to lay off that granddaddy purple girl.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
You might need to take a little bit of a break, you know, and then she's sitting there like, you know, cranky Frank's walking around with a pan on his head. Now, the funniest part is, when you start getting into the slightly harder stuff, if you give it to somebody or these strains, because you can, you can add additives to anything that you make.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
But the subject matter by nature does involve dealing with drugs and slinging drugs and dealing with Keith and maybe Ryan punching him and getting shanked. So there will be the topic by nature is mature. So if you're listening with your kids and you'd rather not have them listen to you right now, there is your warning.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And at one point we put a bunch of additives in something and we gave it to a lady and, and she just completely like change color. You know what I mean? Like she just, she had been the same lady the whole game. And then all of a sudden she's just a complete, like her hair's a different color. Her skin's a different color. And we were like, what happened to miss Ming, man?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. I mean, yeah, just some of the moments in this game lend themselves to... It's just a fun game, guys. That's like plain and simple. It's just a fun game. Now, I will say this because I always like to bring up what doesn't work in a game or what's not the best. And Ace, you and I hit this last night, actually, where we had hopped back in. We were playing... We're manufacturing meth.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
We've got two dealers at this point. We're laundering our money. We bought a car. There's all these things that you can do. But at one point, we kind of just went, it's a grind at this point.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Like, that is the ultimate wall that you will run into with any kind of game like this. I mean, PAL World. I mean, any game. Rust. I mean, it is the nature of these types of games that it's like, yes, there is still progression. There was a lot of progression that we hadn't hit yet. I mean, there are giant Beverly Hills mansions that you can get.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
You can start to buy weapons and kind of do what you want with the weapons in the game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Right. Yes. There's multiple different drugs that you can make. And we were only on like two out of three and there's definitely more coming to, but it, that's where we just kind of hit the wall and we went, look, we have had a ton of fun in this game, but if we're going to keep trying to progress, it's just going to get grindy because we have to make a lot of money to move to the next level and
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
you know, we're going to get a couple of upgrades along the way, but is it really something we want to dump another six or seven hours into just to say we've made it to the next step in this game? Or do we want to go play Marvel Rivals and get ready for season two? And we kind of went, let's go play Marvel Rivals. Like we've put enough into this game at this point. Ryan, do you kind of feel this?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And I know you didn't get as much play time as Ace and I did, but I mean, you got a lot, but can you kind of see that
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Otherwise, like I said, we always keep it clean so you don't have to worry about that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
now that we've got the disclaimer out of the way um you know one of the things that we have been asking for and everybody has been responding with is reviews man we promise we're gonna get caught up on some of these we have a couple more reviews to read right at the top of the show um and so we're gonna start off with those ryan you've got one we're gonna start with you buddy
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I mean, that's literally what you do is you're growing and you're hustling it. You're manufacturing it and you're hustling it. You're buying that next upgrade, that next house for more space. And I mean, even with our house that we were in, we were kind of running low on room already because you're just scaling everything up at that point. So to me, that is the number one drawback for this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And it's not specific to schedule one necessarily, but I feel like I hit that wall with this game pretty hard. As far as like, okay, well, we've kind of seen most of the content at this point. Now, the game is in early access. And so they have a roadmap. There's all kinds of content. I mean, while we were playing, they released a big patch and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
But it is the nature of it that you're just going to hit that grind wall. And if you're okay with that, there's plenty to do. But if you're not okay with it, then that's probably where you're going to go. All right, I'm just going to put this game down for a while now.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I would imagine they would. That seems like a pretty critical thing in a game like this, because like you said, if you're playing with us and we're advanced and we, you know, we have 15 hours into this game and then you're like, well, I feel like playing and you hop into your own world. You're starting from scratch because you're not playing on my world at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Um, anything else that didn't really work for you guys as far as gameplay or just elements of the game?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Yes, the map is terrible, dude. Yeah, it's really bad.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I still don't know where Midtown is.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, the map is atrocious. It's trying to I mean, you do kind of learn your way around some of the sections in the map. But then, like you said, you know, when you progress far enough, you unlock a new section or zone of the map. And it's like there's new clientele, there's new shops, there's new everything that you're supposed to be able to do here.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
But part of the gatekeeping in this game is if you go up to somebody on the street and you try to give them a free sample, it'll be read it out to where it's like, you must unlock the docks sector first. And then I'm like, why do I have to unlock the docks to be able to offer this guy a free sample kind of thing? But we're already breaking the law.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
What are you trying to tell me where I can go?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So. All right, guys. So as we're as we're wrapping up here, you know, this game is an early access. Is there is there a feature other than a better map and Ryan dedicated servers? Is there a feature or something that you hope to see that would just blow this game out of the water for you?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Other people's worlds. And then now we've got an actual we're fighting over territory and an empire with your friends.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Is it worth the $20 price tag in your opinion? And quantify that with if you're playing solo or if you're playing with friends.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I would never remember. I was the seed go-getter, man. Because nothing's happening if you ain't growing, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
If you ain't growing, you ain't showing or something. That's probably not the right. That's correct.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Did you dip into our stash, bro? That might not be the right saying there.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Well, there also was the fact in game every time we unlocked a new strain, we were like, all right, boys, time to toast.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
You missed it. My character tried the meth in the game because I was like, can you do this? And you can. And your guy gets cracked out, dude. Everything in the world starts vibrating. All the images start vibrating and stuff, and you just hear this constant like, He looked so out of it. I was like, Ace, I am so tweaked out right now, man. I don't know when this is going to stop.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I'm so scared right now. Oh, my God. He's like, he's coming at us. Get in the car.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
So is this game a must play for people? I mean, we're, you know, we're, we're, we're talking about it. It's, it's taken the internet by storm. Is this, is this like a, you know, people should absolutely play this. You know, what are your overall thoughts on the game? You know, AKA rating on the game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. My opinion on this is grab a friend. Just find one other person to play with and you will have an absolute blast with this game. I personally highly recommend getting a coworker involved in this game so that when you're at work, you can be like, hey, dude, you think we're going to be able to make meth tonight?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
You know, like, what about, like, do you think, like, because, I mean, you know, we've got the oven, we've got the mixing station, but we really need to kind of upgrade to meth at this point.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Matt, my buddy Matt and I were talking about this at my job, and it was funny because we were just going into the OG Kush, the Green Crack, the, you know, meth's on our horizon and stuff, and people were looking at us like... What are you guys talking about?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
For $20, it is hard to beat the amount of fun that you can have in this game. The progression loop will absolutely keep you interested for long enough to get your money's worth out of it by far. I don't think it's a great game solo unless you are the kind of person that just loves a grindy type game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I mean, I say grind grind sometimes has a negative connotation to it, but there is always something for you to be working on in doing. If you like that, then maybe playing solo is fine for you. But this is one of those ones where it's so much better with somebody else to play with and just kind of share it with as well. So. All right, guys, any other thoughts on schedule one?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
think we hit everything of importance play it is my that's my there you go that's for twenty dollars it's well worth it there is a reason that this game is so highly rated on steam there's really very little to not like about it there is a lot to like about it you will absolutely laugh you will absolutely play way too long i i mean it was that one of those games where it's like my wife's waiting on me we're gonna watch a show and i'm like hang on
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Hang on, I got to go sell these nine baggies to people, you know? And then before you know it, Ace is like, Josh, we're out of seeds. And then I'm like, okay, hang on. I just got to go get another order of seeds, okay? And then it's like, we can do that. And Ace is like, hey, can you stop by and pick up some more baggies? Because we can't package it. And I'm like, okay, baby, give me five minutes.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I got to get more baggies, you know? The trash can's full. I need some trash bags. Yeah, there's always something to do, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
You can pick up trash for money, too, if you're really hard up. All right. Well, listen, everybody, thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed this deep dive of Schedule 1. If you are not already following this podcast, please take a second to look at your podcast app. Hit that plus button. Hit that follow button. Make sure you get all of our episodes the day that they release.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
If you love the show and you love the content and you want to keep it flowing and you want some really cool perks, you can support the podcast over at MultiplayerSquad.com. You can sign up for as little as five bucks a month. It's nothing. And it really does go a long way to helping the podcast keep pumping out the content and If you are not aware, we are on video. We have video on YouTube.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
We are video on Spotify. So if you listen on Spotify, you get to see our young, you know, handsome faces and, you know, all the stupid reactions.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
yes and we have really been focusing on a lot of social media content so if you are not following us on social media you are missing out we are everywhere at video gamers pod so make sure you follow us there also that's gonna do it for this one until next time happy gaming don't cross me keith i'll find you see ya peace out
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I somehow missed the Lord of the Rings game between the real-time strategy one that everybody said, Battle for Middle-Earth, I think it's called. Oh, that was so good. I missed them somehow, man, and everybody loves them.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, it's because you're too oldies.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, he's running all over town, slinging them goods and looking out for Keith, who he's got a beef with. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Just sitting in the retirement home. All right. So this one comes in from Sam is the goat. It's titled so great. And it says, thank you. Thank you for actually watching the trailers and playing all these games.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
so far it's been the best gaming podcast but if you could make this on youtube and then add like a video of yourself and then edits and add all the good stuff then you would by far be the best gaming podcast i've ever seen and that is saying a lot considering i've seen 127 podcasts i think it is also a dream podcast to listen to if you have time to kill and have already finished all your video games obviously
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
It's super family-friendly and a great thing to listen to with your friends who like video games. I hope. See ya! P.S. Please put this review on your next episode. Thank you. Next episode, next 50 episodes. Somewhere in there. Somewhere in there. I said we're behind a little bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
We are Spotify video. So if you're watching or if you're listening on Spotify right now, It should default to video, but if it doesn't, you can literally tap the button that says watch the podcast, and you get to see our handsome young faces and then aces. Yeah, and then me.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
So, all right. So, guys, and then as promised, also, we have a quick question. We're getting to these quick questions. And this one comes in from HG Knight, epic supporter of the show. And his question was, if you could go back and save a game from disaster, be it corporate greed, a bad release date, poor execution, et cetera, what would you save?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I would want Anthem to live up to its full potential. I know my answer on this one, so I'll jump in while you two think about it. Number one, Anthem was a fantastic game for eight hours. I hate that that game fell apart. But to be different than HG Knight and not say Anthem, I'm just going to say the Battlefield franchise at this point. We've mentioned that many times on the show.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Battlefield has completely lost its way. It got... They got greedy and they forgot what made Battlefield what it was. And I want the Battlefield franchise to return to its glory days because with all of the people that we have been playing with in our community and, you know, just each other with games every night, I miss having a squad in Battlefield to just run around and cause chaos with. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I tried to get into the Elder Scrolls online, and I could not. It was too easy. Honestly, that was my biggest complaint, is combat was meaningless. And in a game like Elder Scrolls, when the combat had no purpose, I don't think I died once in 30 levels or whatever it is.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
yeah i feel like you see if thieves comes close but it just doesn't have any kind of reward for doing anything why can't we have an amazing pirate game man apparently it's impossible hard man is it is it that hard is it the sailing and then the land because skull and bones went man forget about the land oh you don't want to walk on the land you just want to sail all the time
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And joining us, the old man himself. His middle age takes a great glimpse into geriatric gaming. And he almost broke a hip before we started recording. It's Ace.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I it's so weird, man. It's so weird that we're about to have like Dune Awakening, which is an MMO. I mean, all of these and nobody can make a fantastic pirate game. And I know all of the Sea of Thieves fans are good. Sea of Thieves. Sea of Thieves is fine. There's zero progression in the game. That's the biggest complaint we have with it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
I did joke around that. I was like, well, we're just the rage bait podcast. Apparently, you know, say one thing that people disagree with. And that's that now. We have always said, listen, we can't help it. We're always going to be honest. We're going to give what we think on a game. It doesn't mean that we're right or wrong. It's just our opinion on something.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And, boys, it is time to give our opinion on Schedule 1. Let's do this, man. So, Ryan, why don't you just describe what Schedule 1 is to anybody that may not be familiar with this business-like game?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, that in its simplicity, it is a game that is just based off of progression. Yeah. Yeah. You start off as a little small time drug dealer trying to move your first bag of weed. And before you know it, you're buying, you know, huge houses and trying to make more space so that you can produce and grow and manufacture other stuff that you can then sell to people.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
You acquire money. And then you get upgrades. And that's really like the basic gameplay loop on this. Basically, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. In theory, it is. Now, there's a lot that you can do in it that makes it enjoyable and kind of adds to the gameplay elements on this. But, yeah, I mean, I think that is the gist of the game. You are trying to go from a small-time nobody to building your drug empire and
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
What am I wrong today? You slandered the Minecraft movie, Ace.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
The game has a very good tutorial that it kind of puts you through that introduces you to the mechanics, which I think is great. It's fun right off the rip. I mean, you get to talk to your uncle who is, you know, a bad guy. If you've ever wanted to play Breaking Bad, that's the best way to describe schedule one. Like it really is.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
You know, you don't know what you're doing. You just kind of figure it out along the way and and then off you go. So we did get a chance to all play this together. You know, I think Ace and I, I don't remember if Ryan was right there on the very first tutorial or not.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
So this is where we knew this game was going to be fun is right off the bat. You have to, you know, go and learn the game mechanics, but then you come back and it says, hey, let's make your character. And half the fun was Ace and I just giggling as we're looking through all the options for this character creator.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
And anybody that's been listening to this show for a while knows I could care less about what my character looks like. I don't generally spend a whole lot of time in there. But man, Ace and I are just like, I am trying to make my guy look as cracked out as possible. You can adjust things like the size of your pupils, how red your eyes are, how low your eyelids hang.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] Scandalous Schedule 1 - Gaming Podcast
Ace winds up and we don't know what we're making. You know, we can't see each other until it's done. And then we load in and I went with the most like cracked out looking guy with just these big buggy eyes and his pupils are huge. And I'm like, oh, man, I'm going to look like I'm just tweaking nonstop. And then Ace loads in and he is naked Willie Nelson, basically. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I am very excited about the premise for arc Raiders because I don't know the squad size. I'm going to assume it's three to four people, but this is the kind of game there where you can absolutely get lost in with your friends. It looks like it's insanely well done. It's beautiful. Check out the latest gameplay trailer because it's going to give you a very good idea of what this game is all about.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
But, It's beautiful. The gunplay looks good. The, the PVP nature of like, you know, they're getting sniped at. They're also engaging some other players that are trying to get to some salvage. You get to see the, like the scraps of one of these giant robots. So it's like, it looks like there's these amazing epic boss fights.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You get this gear, you kind of try to take it back to, I guess your base or your Ford or something. And it just, that gameplay loop is insanely addictive if you, if you can get into it. if the game plays well, obviously. And then especially if you have buddies to play with, I mean, there is some like division DNA almost.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And I know you're a big fan of the division where I definitely got some vibes in that. Maybe it's just the kind of the third person shooting and stuff like that. But I, I loved the division and this looks like it's, It's not the division, but it's similar in a lot of ways that really get my brain kind of internally giggling and being like, oh, this game looks really good, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Like it's got some serious potential. Absolutely. So, all right, we're going to we have a lot more games to talk about, but we're going to take a quick break and then we'll come right back. And we are going to talk about quite possibly the game I am oddly most hyped for like ever. Boy, if that wasn't a teaser, Ryan, I don't know what was.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Will GTA 6 release this year? Will the Switch 2 be anything more than a slight improvement over the original? Will Silksong ever actually release? On this episode, we're going to talk about some of the greatest gaming mysteries for 2025 to remind you about a few games we're all still wondering about.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I know, right? Okay. I'm going to start this one by saying there's really no evidence that this game is coming out in 2025. Is this game real? This game is real. That I know, but will it come out in 2025? No. I'm not sure. Now, the projections are that if it does, it's going to release late 2025. But most people think 2026. And no, I'm not talking about Grand Theft Auto 6.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Um, we don't know if they're coming out this year or not, but if they do, it's probably going to change the course of 2025 and a lot of people's minds for, you know, how this year is viewed as a whole in gaming. So these games are no slouches. But also they might actually be games that you forgot about as well. So that's kind of why we wanted to do this episode is to put them back on your radar.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You know, there was a game where we got, I think it was announced at like Gamescom or one of these big events. I feel like it was early summer, something like that, where we got a trailer from Hello Games. Who infamously made No Man's Sky, which released to terrible, terrible press and reviews and all that. I was one of them. Yep. And then we get this trailer out of the blue.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I mean, no warning, no communications from the company that they were working on something else for a little game called Light No Fire. And dude, I can't begin to tell you the amount of excitement and hype that went through me when I watched this trailer and what I saw with you and your buddies exploring this fantasy world as a group, flying on dragons, looking around this amazing looking world.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It looks like an absolutely gigantic planet. You're going on quest, you're finding gear, you're doing all this stuff. It looks like they took everything they learned from No Man's Sky over the last 10 years and then said, let's perfect it and put it into a multiplayer game. Yeah. And Light No Fire is that game. And I don't know why my brain is so enamored of this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Like watch the watch the trailer for this. Now, there's been no no trailer since since this announcement. But just go back, go back and watch that trailer. Just Google light, no fire trailer. And you're going to see, dude, this this game, when we get an actual release date, will probably catapult to the forefront of my hype meter. Just because number one, it's right up my alley.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It looks like this open world crafting survival multiplayer game. I know that they've learned their lessons on this.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Just from the snippet that they showed, it looks incredibly well done and incredibly fun. What are your thoughts on light? No fire, Ryan, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I I've been pretty good about containing my hype for this game because we just don't have a lot of information. But I'm telling you and I'm telling the listeners when when this game is officially announced as far as like, hey, it's coming late 2025. It will be at the very top of my like most anticipated. I there's not many games that are going to compare to my excitement for
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
like light no fire well the other thing with this is for people that may have not heard of this game or gone well yeah but it's you know if they just announced it it's probably going to be another three or four years they they did confirm that this game's been in development for five years now yeah like they didn't tell a soul about it but when when they released this trailer they said we've been working on this for five years it's time to show the world that should i mean legitimately it should be i don't want to hear about this game five years ago yeah like let's go okay cool elder scroll six talking to you bud yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
We're going to check our hype meters when we talk about these. We'll actually talk about if we know the kind of late 2025, early, probably not 2025, but maybe. Maybe. You know, and so all that. So this is going to be a really fun gaming filled episode that may put some games back on your radar. And if nothing else, it's going to be super fun to just kind of get excited about these all over again.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, I hate that, man. I really don't like that trend. Just tell us six months beforehand. Yeah, exactly. So, but yeah, so that's light, no fire again, check out that trailer if you haven't, but man, I am not, I am an internal optimist, Ryan. I know you are too, but it's like, I'm not so optimistic that this game's actually releasing this year, but there is a chance that,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And that's why we're bringing cozy, cozy fall release. You know, that would be amazing, dude. Oh yeah. So, all right, Ryan, let's move on to, uh, what, I don't know if anybody's ever heard of this title before. It's, uh, it's, it's something called fable fable, you know, fable. Hmm.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Uh, man, if you weren't around for the days of the, the fable releasing on, what was it? Xbox or something like that. Fable broke the world. Yep. Okay. They came at this guy who, who made fable. I can't remember that guy's name now. It's a Peter Molyneux. Wasn't it Molyneux? I'm pretty sure that's the guy's name, if I remember, because he did Spore also.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
So I'm almost positive it's Peter Molyneux. He came out and he made these insane claims about, hey, this game's gonna, you know, if you're mean to your wife and people in town, you'll grow horns and the people in town will start to be scared of you. And so your actions will affect the world like no other game out there.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And people went, well, this looks really cool, but is it really gonna work that way?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Or you could just slaughter your wife and then marry somebody else.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It really was. He pulled it off, and honestly, if you're playing a current game where your choices matter and characters react to those choices or you find out about them later on in the game, you can thank Fable for a lot of that because maybe a game did that to a small degree before Fable, but Fable...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
is the game that put that into the mainstream and put it into the forefront of gaming to say, hey, people like it when their choices matter. And if you're evil, the world should treat you like you're evil and the people around you should respond to you and stuff like that. So Fable comes out. There's Fable 1, 2, and I think there was a third Fable, if I remember right. I think so.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And, you know, finally kind of tapered off a little bit. They weren't all these epic games, but then it's radio silence for, I don't know, a decade.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Right. And everybody just thought this is one of those franchises is faded into obscurity. And then we get information about a new fable game. This is not just a remake. It's not just a remaster. This is, hey, fable is coming. It's going to be one of the craziest games you've ever seen. Like we know we innovated with the original fable and we're doing it again. Fables back. Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And we all kind of watch this trailer that they gave us where people went, That's just a cinematic trailer. There's a girl. She's hiding from a giant. The girl's ugly. There was a bunch of internet outrage about this ugly main character. People were stupid online and all that stuff. And then they came out and they said... Actually, there was some real gameplay in that trailer.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And kind of like I said, where our hype meters are at and stuff like that. But Ryan, before we get into that. What are we doing? We'd love thanking people, man. Oh, it's our favorite pastime.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And then they released another trailer and they said, well, fine, here's a gameplay trailer. And then people went, no, this is just that cinematic trailer. Like, yeah, you showed off some new stuff, but this is all just cinematics. And they went, oh, no, it's not. This is the gameplay. And people went, there's no way.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
This can't be gameplay. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I mean, if that was all gameplay, then I'm giving them credit right now because they did it. They blew the world's mind, just like they did with Fable when it came out. Like, this is mind-blowing type stuff. Well, then we haven't heard a darn thing. Nope. No more gameplay trailers. No more, you know, can we figure out what's gameplay and what's not?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
No more arguing over the ugly protagonist and this giant and this world and all that. So they kind of went back to just their cave and development. Fable is expected in Q4. So at the end of 2025, I have a feeling that this game is going to get delayed a little bit longer with a name like Fable.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
i'm not sure that they're going to try to rush this one and i just i have a sneaking suspicion that this is one of those ones especially because it's slated for the end of 2025 that this one might roll into 2026 but it this is another one of those games where it's like i'm trying to keep calm about this game because fable was incredible oh so good it was such a good game i remember playing it with my wife and she was like don't be mean to that kid and i just kicked
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
this kid down man you know and she's like why would you do that and i'm like because i could because i can and then your horn grows a little bit there exactly yeah your guy gets like the kind of pale skin and the horns start growing and stuff so uh fable will absolutely jump up my my height meter immensely uh when we get a little bit more information about it i think the key for fable is that there has to be some kind of really neat innovation or something if it looks like a game like a trailer but it
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
it's actual gameplay. I think that would be enough to blow people's minds, but there's a little bit more left to be seen on that. And I'm not confident that this one's coming out in 2025. So, yeah, I agree. Um, now another game. Now people are going to be like, I've never heard of this game. I've never heard of this game before, you know, and I'm going to tell people what we talked about it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
When we found out about it, we talked about it because we thought it looked really neat. You know, and that is what we do. And we like putting games on people's radars. You know, of course, people have heard of Fable and they've heard of Judas and Light No Fire and stuff like that. But here's a little game that maybe you haven't heard of that I know I am very excited for.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And that is a game called Jump Ship. Now, kind of a lame title. I'll be honest. I'm not real sure about the title on this game. Jump Ship. What do you do? Is this like hopscotch? Yeah. But Jump Ship is a co-op game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
PVP VE game, which again, you know, we love, but we got a little, like a little trailer and a snippet of this game where you and your buddies load up into this starship and you go flying around this planet and And you're trying to find these areas where there's probably salvageable gear or treasure or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
At one point, they showed that the guy could get out and walk around the outside of the ship while the pilot is captaining the ship and then other people are doing stuff. And so... we just kind of went, dude, this looks incredible. Like you're telling me, like I can get out and walk around on the outside of the ship and they show you shooting at enemy ships.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
That is one way that we do thank people. And we are going to read a review. Here in just a second. But also, we want to thank the people that make this podcast possible, Ryan. Oh, okay. What way can they do that? They can head over to MultiplayerSquad.com and sign up for a... A copper piece, if you will. A shilling, perhaps? I don't know what any of those things are worth.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Okay. And, and then it's like, wait a minute. Like I'm shooting my rocket gun on, while I'm standing on the outside of the ship, you're playing, you're flying the ship around. You're trying to dodge getting shot down by missiles. Everybody's scrambling. Then you land on this planet. You all bail out and you go running off into this, these old ruins to now fight robot enemies.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And you're looking for treasure that you're trying to find and get back with and stuff like that. And we just went,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And I think I did say that it was PVEVP. It is just PVE. That was something I wanted to clarify is as of right now, I think we thought it was PVP because it looks like you're fighting other people. But as of right now, it is just PVE. But to give you an example...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
is at one point you're being attacked by enemy ships that had been flying around and detected you down there and so these enemy ships come in and the crew just jumps in the ship and takes off and now you're dog fighting yeah like you're literally like dog fighting in the ship and then one of the crew members is like wait a minute and he runs over this locker and pulls out like a rocket launcher goes on the exterior of the ship and starts aiming it at the other ships and just shoots one of the ships down
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And like the, the, yeah, the team like lost their mind. And I was like, dude, this game looks like it is stupid fun. It looks very well done. Like this doesn't look like it's, you know, uh, you know, kind of half developed or something like that either. So jump ship to me looks like an absolutely like just great time with your buddies. It is, uh,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It was supposed to release in 2024 and they came out and they said, listen, due to the hype and stuff, we really want to put our all into this game. So it has already been delayed to 2025. I, I would say, I think this game is releasing in 2025. And I think this one has one of those, like, I think this is like the sleeper chance to be way better than people.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Most people aren't even aware of this game, which is number one, one reason why we're talking about it right now. And we got hyped about it when we found out about it and getting hyped again, all over again, talking about it right now. So make sure that you put jump ship on your radar and,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
because I think this game's going to come out of the blue for a lot of people, and I think it's really going to be a lot of fun. The gameplay loop on this just looks stupid fun, dude. Slaps, brother. Yeah. All right, Ryan. Dune Awakening. I haven't played an MMO in forever. I know we keep saying... We know why.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I do got to be careful, man. You know, it's one of those things where I know myself. Now, maybe this was 30 years ago when I was playing EverQuest. Well, maybe not that long ago, but I was playing EverQuest every day. Well, hold on. You know? Yeah. So, but Dune Awakening has had our attention for a while. It is an MMO. It's set in the Dune universe. We've gotten snippets.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
We've gotten director, you know, the, where they just sit and they talk about their game and it's like, dude, show me gameplay, you know, show me, don't just tell me, show me. And then they kind of released some more gameplay and we went, yeah, that kind of looks very crafted and kind of like set where it's not the actual game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And then they kind of came out and said, no, here's some actual gameplay, but it still has just looked very, uh, I don't know the word I'm looking for, but like not the gameplay, but just like very carefully presented to people. And people go like, I want to see what this game looks like as if I was just somebody playing it. Now, I will say that I am pretty darn excited for Dune Awakening.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I don't think you're as excited as me or what's your interest level on this game?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
But as little as $5 a month, you can sign up to support this podcast. It keeps this show going. It keeps... The gaming fun and the gaming chat brought to the planet. Some say it improves the world. Some. Maybe it's us that say that, but there's probably some truth to that as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I will say, even though I am excited, because I'm easily excitable, but I do have some reservations. It is, how are you going to make this game look good? And we've seen trailers, and the graphics look pretty good. But one of the big things is, how much can you do with desert? And they've said, oh, don't worry about that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I think they're called sieges, if I remember my Dune lore right, where it's the underground stuff. You can be a Fremen. You can be a Harkonnen. You can kind of have these factions and stuff like that. I think, for me, the combat... and the vehicles in this game are what are really going to matter.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I mean, yes, you know, you're going to have to find water and you can build a base and I don't really care about base building. I'm not very good at it and all that stuff, but it's like, where's the action at? Like, where's the excitement for finding water?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I saw an article, we didn't cover this, but I saw an article the other day that said that half of, I guess there's some early access playing going on or something like that. People that were invited or something. Um, And they said that half the people that are playing are dying from dehydration.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And there's this scramble to try to just find mouse blood because you can extract water from blood, I guess. Oh, yeah, yeah. And so it's like people are just hunting mice trying to live. And I'm like, this sounds horrible. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that's great. There might need to be some adjustments to the survival difficulty of Dune Awakening. But that one is definitely on my radar. I'm like you.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I want to see more. I want to see that this game is going to command my attention and it's going to be fun to play versus just something that you can grind.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You know, in that regard.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, exactly. For water.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
So Dune Awakening is set to release in early 2025. We don't have a date, but it is just projected as early 2020. So maybe we get some more information on this game soon. If they start to show off some actual non-curated gameplay and it really starts to look good, because I know there are faction wars and stuff like that as well. This could jump up, but I'm with you.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I really need to see a little bit more before... I start saying like, I'm really hyped for this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
All right, Ryan. Next up on our list is a little game. I don't know that this is another one of those kind of people may not have heard of this game a whole lot and they wonder why we're bringing it up. It's a game called Silk Song. You said it again.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I'm done with this Silk Song. You can't tell me the name that shall not be named. I'm just going to name the name.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And I literally, because, you know, I have the projected release dates for all these games that we've talked about, you know, expected quarter four already delayed to 2025 and Silksong. I just put who the heck knows. It's literally what I have out next to it because nobody knows. They won't tell anybody.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You know, and they just all they did is the last time we got any information, they said, we are working on this game. It is coming along very well, was the last news that we got on this. And so this is the big thing, right? Is it's it was we were hoping it was going to come out last year. I think it was me that drafted it in our draft for 2024.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I know I drafted it in 2025 because that wasn't long ago. It's the sequel to Hollow Knight. Listen, if you haven't played Hollow Knight, number one, I'm not a huge Metroidvania fan. I get it when people look at that and they say, look, Hollow Knight, I've heard a lot about it, but I don't like Metroidvanias. I don't like Metroidvanias either. I get lost. I forget what I was doing.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, exactly. But we did have a new person sign up with rare status. And a huge thank you to Style and Steve. Yeah, Steve. For signing up. Style and Steve, also one of the amazing people on our Discord server that has been having a lot of fun and conversating with everybody. It is a fantastic community. Dude, I love the fact that people...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
They seem neat in theory, but then I really just kind of fizzle out quickly on those. Hollow Knight is a masterpiece, man. It's so good.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Making a game that I knew was going to have a ton of hype around it. Like, okay, we can't mess this up. We don't want to disappoint people. As much as I hate to admit it, I would take the exact same route. Like, dude, we're working on the game. We'll talk about it and we'll show it when it's ready and we feel comfortable with it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And until then, you guys can guess all you want, but we don't want to do it. We don't want to do the thing where we get people excited five years and then... you know, we do that. So it's like, I, as annoying as it is, because I know we all want information on silk song and we all want to see like parts of it and stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It's kind of like, I totally am on the side of the developer on this, which I don't like, but I also understand where it's like, dude, just make the best game. And they've said, we're going to make the best game we can possibly make. And you guys are going to love it, but you just have to give us the time to do it. So I, I, I'd like to think that Silksong is coming out this year.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Everybody was super hoping it would come out in 2024. And it's kind of like, okay, well, it didn't. So it's got to be 2025, man. Dude, I think all these delays, it's going to be...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It's coming out this year, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It's going to come out this year.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
are actually trusting us and saying, fine, let me check out your stupid Discord server.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I think they're going to announce it in June, and it's going to come out in fall, and I think you're going to be right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And then you're going to hold that over.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
We're never going to hear the end of you being right on that prediction.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
You guys remember when I called it perfectly released?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
If you're right, I will absolutely give you credit, man. I'll build your ego up so much. Cause I'll just be happy. We had this game. Me too. All right. Two lesser known ones. We're not going to spend much time on this. Cause we, we need to wrap this episode up. John Carpenter's toxic commando. The trailer for this game is bananas.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Dude, if you think Helldivers 2 looks good, replace the aliens and the enemies with zombie hordes and then give you like armored vehicles to plow through them. That is what Toxic Commando looks like. This trailer is unbelievably just exciting to watch and looks phenomenal. And then it just went radio silent for like a year. We got nothing. We got nothing, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
They're finally listening. Discord's bumping, man. It is hopping, man. And it's so cool to see. I know we mention it all the time, but there is a reason for that because we have people hop in and they're like, dude, This place is awesome, man. These are actual gamers. They're not toxic. This place doesn't suck.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And to the point where I was like, they canceled the game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It's gone. No more. Well, it's not canceled. I don't know anything about this game. If it's anything like the trailer, then give it to me. Put it in my veins. I can't wait to play this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. No game for you. The Toxic Commando Nazi. Commando Nazi. I'd like some of that Toxic Commando. No, none for you. No game for you. I will say that I did scour the internet and I did find information that said that there were some closed technical tests and play tests for Toxic Commando that were happening. So this game is very much alive as far as the development goes.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I don't know if it's going to look anything like the trailer. If it does... Oh baby. Oh, Oh yeah. Oh baby. But I just, I'll believe it when I see it at this point, it was initially the plan was to release in 2024. So this is another game where it got delayed. They did not specify the, the length of the delay, but,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
But the general thinking is because it was set for 2024, it's expected in 2025 at this point. I would love that, as long as it looks like the trailer. Yeah, exactly.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And then we're not going to spend any time on this one, but where wins meet. We were super hyped for this game. It looks incredible. We've talked about it before and then we didn't hear anything. It was supposed to release last year. It didn't release last year, but then it released on PC, but only in China. What the heck, China? Why can't we play it?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And then now the news is that it released in PC in China only, but it's going to release for iOS and Android in, I think, this month.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
But then I went... Because you even asked me before we started recording. You're like, wait, does that say iOS and Android? And I was like, yeah. Yeah. That doesn't give me confidence in this game. Let's optimize this for your phone real quick. I don't know what to think about Where Winds Meet anymore. The expectation is that it will release for PC in the rest of the world sometime this year.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
But if you're releasing this on iOS and Android before your US or Europe or just the rest of the world release... I don't know, man. I don't know at this point.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I can actually talk about games I love or upcoming releases or, hey, I need some people to play Marvel Rivals with. And, oh, cool. I just found three or four people that all want to jump in. Even though I'm a complete noob to the game, here's other gamers that are wanting to jump in and just play and have fun together. So... It is awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, this one's weird to me, man. My brain's kind of doing that, like, you know, you're walking through and you see someone with really nice hair. And you're like, oh, that's really... And then they turn around and it's just like Igor or something. Where you're like, oh, what was that? Like, I wasn't expecting that. And I feel like that's like where wins me.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
A little bit, you know, from behind, you look like, I don't, I don't have Kardashian money.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
So, well, listen, that is it. Ryan, out of the games that we've talked about, which one are you most hyped for?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I would think my height meter is highest for light, no fire, but I don't think that that's actually going to release this year. So I am going to say, I'm going to say arc Raiders.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I think it has the highest chance of flopping as well. And being like, this really isn't that fun. Like it's a beautiful game. It's got a high ceiling, nothing new. It does have the highest ceiling in my opinion. Judas, I am very confident is going to be incredible, but I think my height meter, like I want to play with the boys, you know, I want to,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I want to go on these raids and I want to take out fools and I want to lay traps and, and, and, and, you know, snipe them while they're trying to get the loot and stuff like that. So, uh, yeah. So I think light, no fire and arc Raiders for me are the top two that I'm like, man, I can't wait to get my hands on this. So heck yeah, dude. We want to hear from you.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
If there's a game that we did not talk about that is like, guys, well, what about this game? Cause it's supposed to come out this year or maybe there's rumors that it might come out this year. Come talk to us. If you're listening on Spotify, you can leave a comment on the episode. Come join our Discord server. We talk about the episodes. We talk about games all the time.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
It's a fantastic community. It's family friendly. It's really just an awesome place that we really would love you to be a part of. If you are a gamer at heart and you're You know, you're good to other people, man. We don't want toxic people. We hate that. There's no point in having that. So if you hate that as well, then come join us. The link is in the episode description.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Follow us on social media at Video Gamers Pod. And you know what? If you want to go the extra mile, if it's on your heart, if you love this content, we've been making your days better. and helping you through chores or the gym or something like that, think about helping us put this show out to the world, uh, because it's only exists because of people that support the show, to be honest.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
But thank you, Style and Steve, for signing up for Rare Status. And again, if you want to support the show, you can do that over at MultiplayerSquad.com. And Ryan, you mentioned a review. Yes. Look, we get it. Not everybody has the means, the desire, whatever, to say, hey, I'm going to give you crazy weird guys money. But you know what? I do have fun with this show. And let me leave you a review.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
So there's a lot of you out there, uh, but it really does mean the world to us. It keeps this podcast rolling. And I know it means the world to everybody else that's listening that maybe doesn't have the means to help as well. And you can do that over at multiplayer squad.com. Ryan, I'd ask if you got plans tonight, but. We're going to play Marvel Rivals again, baby.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
uh i love that every time we record there's a game that we can't wait to go play that's how you know we're gamers man it's like hey we're putting in the work on the podcast but i know we're going to play games together tonight too absolutely and i know you preached it and i'm just going to say it again like you meant you said game with the boys we even just set up a role because so many people in the discord are playing rivals and so many people are coming to join
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Come see for yourself. Come see for yourself. That's the challenge, right? Click the link. Just come see for yourself.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, absolutely. So awesome. Well, that is it for this episode. We hope you enjoyed it. Remember to follow the podcast. If you're a new listener, click that plus button. Click that subscribe button so you get our episodes the day that they release. And until next time, happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And if you write us a review, there's a good chance that we might read it on the show. Like this one that comes in from Saucy Soy that's titled Best Podcast. And it's short and sweet. It says, I just bought a PC and wanted to know some games that could be fun. Paul, Josh, and Ryan are amazing hosts and helped me get into many games such as Marvel Rivals and Helldivers 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Oh, dude, what more could you ask for? Is that not like two awesome games that are just pure dumb fun to play?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
That's another... Another perk of the Discord server, man, is like, hey, anybody played this game? Got thoughts on it? And you'll get a dozen answers from people that have played it. And they're like, oh, yeah, that one's totally worth it. Or no, stay away. It sucked.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, he's probably mad at me for saying Silksong again, but I don't even care. Silksong, Silksong, Silksong.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Exactly. Exactly. So. All right, Ryan. So for this episode, I mean, I kind of touched on it, but we're going to talk about these games. You know, I do want to check our hype levels as well, because it's been a while. We have actually talked about every single one of these games at some point on this podcast. Yeah. So it's almost like a little bit of a like a review thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Or like a, hey, don't forget about this. But I am very curious because we haven't talked about them in a little while to also check that hype meter. So this is going to be fun. But let's just dive into it. The first game, and this honestly might be the first game that does release in 2025. Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
That is just a tiny little title that almost came... It did come up at the end of our Most Anticipated Games episode, but it was not drafted by anybody. And that is a game by the name of Judas. Oh. Yes. Okay. When we first saw the trailer for Judas, it was the next game by Ken Levine, the director or creator of Bioshock. Everybody knows Bioshock. Oh, my goodness. What a franchise.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
They're insanely memorable games. You don't forget playing Bioshock. And so we get this trailer for Judas that everybody is calling Bioshock in space, right? Bioshock goes to the ocean. It goes up to the clouds. Where can it go from here? Well, outer space is always a good setting. And it's made by Ken Levine.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
So we kind of lost our minds on this, but there was very little information about Judas for a while. We were kind of hoping that it was going to get released in 2024. That didn't happen. And now it is set for March 2025 release. Set. Do you believe that?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Do you believe? I mean, March is not that far away.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And I feel like if this game, if Judas, which is an insanely big-name title, was going to release in less than two months, I feel like we'd be getting those teaser drips, those little snippets of gameplay, the hands-on previews, something to get this hype meter rolling. Get on the hype train, people. And so, do you think it's going to come out in March?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
As much as I really, really want to get my hands on this game, I'm not sure it's releasing in March. Now, I will say we did get an actual gameplay preview where we got a breakdown and this happened. I want to say this happened like a couple months ago, maybe three, four months ago, somewhere around there. But we actually did get some Judas News. All of a sudden, we were like...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I knew you were. That's why I wrote it into the intro.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
whoa, there's a gameplay trailer? We actually get to see some of this stuff. There was a big interview with Ken Levine about the game, but they did show off some actual gameplay and some of the stuff that this game is going to be about. Were you impressed by the gameplay? Did this catch your eye? Did it get you hyped?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
And that's kind of one of the things that worries me about a March release is normally by now we would have that drip and we're not getting it. And so I do think this game is going to release in 2025. I am actually going to plant my flag and say I do believe that this game will come out. It might be second half or even late 2025, but I'm pretty sure...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
This is to the point I don't even care. Silk Song!
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I would say I probably have more confidence in this game than a lot of the other games that we're going to talk about actually releasing this year. But if you have not checked out Judas and seen some of the trailers and the gameplay for it, you need to do that, number one, because this game looks fantastic. This is absolutely a spiritual successor to the Bioshock franchise.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I don't know if there's licensing issues or what's going on with not being able to call this just Bioshock 4. But this game looks fantastic. The gameplay preview that we did get to see a few months ago really, really looked good. And so my hype meter on Judas is currently kind of like a 7 out of 10.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I'm definitely excited for it, but I just don't know that we've seen enough for it to kind of push it into that... I'm going to talk about it every episode type hype level that some people know I get to. Well, we don't.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Say it with me! Silk Song! We don't want your dumb sequel.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, yeah. So, all right. Well, let's move on to another one, Ryan. I'm actually more excited for this game than I am for Judas. And I have way more concerns that this game may not be as good as Judas. Like, I don't think Judas is going to fail, to be honest. I think it's going to be a very good game. There is a game. That we have talked about.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Honestly, if I scrubbed the archives, I want to say we probably brought this game up like two years ago when we saw the very first trailer for it. And that is a game called Ark Raiders. Yes. Now, way back in the day, we got a trailer for Ark Raiders and it looked too good to be true. It was a multiplayer game in a giant post-apocalyptic sci-fi open world where you were battling these...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Absolutely gargantuan robots. And you were trying to take them down so that you could then salvage equipment from them and stuff like that. And then we heard nothing for probably a year or so. And then we got a little teaser for Ark Raiders and we went, oh yeah, I forgot about this game. And then... Recently, we got an actual gameplay trailer.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Whatever you do, don't release it in 2025.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Now, this game was already initially, I think, scheduled to come out in 2024, but it did get moved to a 2025 release date. Now, there is no... Set date. You know, we don't have like Judas where it's saying March. They're just saying, hey, you know, we already delayed it once to 2025. This is the other game that I'm pretty sure is going to come out this year.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Sure. I think these are the two that I'm most confident in. But Ark Raiders is a like squad based open world extraction game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Which I love the idea. There is PVP. There's PVE. So you could, in theory, call this a PVEVP game, which historically... don't do so well, but are also one of my favorite genres. If it works like a game called the cycle that we don't talk about anymore because it's defunct and doesn't even exist anymore.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that would be a sweet prediction come true, man. Well, thank you, everybody, for joining us for another episode. This one's going to be a fun one. We are going to talk about some of the great mysteries of 2025. These are games that people have forgotten about, games that have release dates in 2025, but no confirmed actual date.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
But the cycle was one of my favorite games and Paul's and our friend groups for a long time, because it was just such a well done PV EVP game. That thrill of worrying about other people while you're trying to play the game really ups the adrenaline factor and stuff like that. Have you played any of these style of games? I mean, I know people talk about Escape from Tarkov.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Greatest Gaming Mysteries of 2025 - Gaming Podcast
I don't know if you've played that or not, but these extraction shooters are kind of the new genre that they call it, but... They tend to go a little bit further, I guess, and I don't know if you've got any experience with any of those.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
That is a good choice. Darn it, Ryan. I was hoping you'd kind of scramble a little bit there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
As a worker?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Oh, poor Gordon got demoted, man. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
That poor guy's really falling.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I thought Gordon was going to get picked somewhere. I was wondering if he would fit the role of accountant because he's wicked smart.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
yeah he a worker like i mean what better option for a worker like honestly you know i mean i feel bad for gordon that he's just down at that low you know you don't know what kind of company we're running man but i mean who knows he could be a ceo for that matter like this man could he's a little bit more of like a solo guy though i don't know that he'd be like the best at running an entire company probably not yeah so he'll get his shot yeah man
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. It's time to dust off those resumes, don your khakis and polo shirts, and review the company manual, because today we're competing head-to-head to draft the best team of video game characters to start a company. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. All right. So, listen. Welcome in, first of all, everybody. We have a very fun episode for you. We love these drafts, dude. These are kind of like, it's just a fun, dumb thing that we do. We try to find the silliest, just stupid ideas, and then we kind of go head-to-head with each other to draft these teams. to put together whatever the topic is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
All right. That's a good one. All right. So it's back to me again. Now the question is, do I go with my manager or do I start with my workers here? I don't think you did snipe my manager. I'm actually low on my manager count here. Okay. I'm picking my manager. I don't worry about you guys sniping my workers on this one. So I am. I'm building this company from the top, like John said. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Here's the thing, guys. I've got the world's smartest AI. I've got Tom Nook who is just show me the money, knows how to get it, But, you know, sometimes you might need to do things just a little like not by the book. Companies need a little bit of flexibility here and there to kind of be like, look, guys, we have this opportunity in front of us.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
It's not necessarily kosher, but it's a really good opportunity. And I need somebody that can think through that, man. I need a guy that can put a plan together. And maybe think about every detail. John, it's not Dutch. Don't worry. They can think of every detail needed to run an operation. I am taking Lester from Grand Theft Auto 5.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
If this man can put heists together and he can motivate that crew to do what they do, I need this man managing my people, putting these action plans together. I mean, a performance review. He'd be able to say, hey, man, you know, you didn't turn off that security system when you were robbing the bank. I mean, trying to, you know, acquire more liquid capital.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I don't know if that's the right term or not. John's squinting now like that's not what that's called. So I'm taking Lester Crest from Grand Theft Auto 5 as my manager.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Well, yeah. We've got so much flexibility on what we can do now. That's true. And like I said, Cortana is going to keep the IRS off of us, man. If I need to launder a little bit of money, so be it. Lester knows how to do that. Oh, gosh. All right. Oh, man. That's my wild card one right there. Maybe. Maybe until I get to my workers.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Okay, so is he your CEO or is he your manager?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Cap knows how to motivate people, man. He really does.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
He was on my master list of characters that I thought might fit a role well. I just feel the only downside, because, you know, I have to slander picks here because I want to win this thing. Sure. My only downside is, like, Cap's enthusiasm and the way that he talks to people could get a little annoying sometimes. Like, he's such a goody-goody. Oh, Cap's coming again. He's like, guys, for profit!
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And honestly, man, these wind up being so much fun. We have challenged people, listeners of the show, fans of the show, guests that we've had on and things like that. And I say it all the time. Everybody thinks like, oh, this is going to be so easy until you get sniped or somebody steals your pick or you're like, dude, I should have taken that guy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
You know, as he's charging, he's like, follow me to the lunchroom, guys. We've got 15 minutes on our break. And then everybody's like, oh, there goes Cap again, sucking up to the CEO.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
We don't slander Lester around here, John.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Squirrel girl.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
That's actually a great pick for an accountant, man. There's a lot of great reasons to have her on. You want to trade Cortana?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I guess 2B because she is an android. She's going to be able to do the numbers and stuff, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Can she see the monitor with the blindfold on, though?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And now you start tilting and everything falls apart at that point, man. And so these are always a really good time. This one, Ryan, you came up with this idea, man. I don't know if you were feeling businessy one day or what, but you were like, dude, let's make a company and you got to use video game characters for it. So the rules of this draft are we have to draft a CEO.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Really? She doesn't need to see the numbers that she's typing in?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Oh, is that it? I didn't know if that worked. It works in the real world, but what that looks like if you're looking at a computer screen.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
She uses dark mode 100% of the time. Okay, 2B isn't an accountant. Man, wow, I feel like that's a good pick, John. Okay, I am down to my workers. Now, this is where I have a lot of choices for my workers here. This is actually the biggest list that I have. I only have one other CEO. We'll do some honorable mentions and stuff and kind of talk about what's on our list that didn't get picked.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I mean, when it comes to a worker, I need somebody that's not going to let anything hold them back. I want somebody that's like, hey, they wake up. They're not feeling great. They're still coming to work. They are dedicated. They are adaptable. They're willing to just do whatever it takes to get the job done.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And hey, if hell is breaking out on a space station and they're still willing to just do their job, that's the kind of worker I want. I am taking Isaac Clark from Dead Space as my worker. This man does it all. He's not going to stop. Nothing's going to hold him back. If this guy can handle what he handled in that game, he'll easily be able to handle whatever we throw at him as far as work goes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And let's be honest, his suit looks cool as anything too, man. So it's like that's just motivation around the office too. So Isaac Clark for me is my first worker.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And he can fix things. He can go from one office to the other because the man's used to walking around everywhere. Puts out fires, knows how to open doors. I mean, this man does it all.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I can't find fault with it. All right, Ryan. These are your last two picks, buddy. You get back-to-back, but then your draft is over. It is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Takes his 20% and that's it, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
20% cut. Well, I guess he does want a signing bonus too. That's true. Benji is such a good pick, right? I did not even think of that, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
yeah good old benji i agree probably not asking for benefits either like benji lives in a weekly motel i know all he wants is cash and company perks yep oh yeah we'll get him some perks that's such a good choice right dang it oh all right you got one worker left ryan Oh, no, no, wait, you've got, no, you already picked a worker.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
an accountant, a manager, and then two just general workers. And however you want to spin those positions is up to you. We are not building any specific corporation or business geared towards something. So there's some leeway there on what you want to build out as well. Uh, I have a good list that I have put together that I am rather excited about. There are a couple characters.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Victor Sullivan?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
As your accountant? Is he good with numbers? As your accountant? Yeah. No, he's not.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Victor's got this thing on the side. Everybody's like, dude, the stocks are down. Productivity's not happening. This company's making millions, but where's it going?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Left everybody else just holding the bag.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I don't know. I'll be honest. Okay. I haven't played these games. If you played, you would. I know who Victor Sullivan is. I have zero clue if it feels like he would make it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
No. I know. No. I'm just saying there has been conversation about I need to play these games. For instance, somebody went legendary and wanted to make me play a game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Uncharted, please.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
If you guys are Uncharted fans, that was their opportunity. We're just throwing games at each other now. I'm just seeing what'll stick. So anyway, I have no idea. I feel like this is a bad pick, Ryan, but only because again, I want to win and I don't want you to win.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
well as you can tell it was a scramble but uh oh yeah i like your original pick was good okay yeah this one's not so i have one more worker and i i have this big list of people man i don't want to spoil anything because uh well wait john you've got both your workers right yeah yeah all i have left is my ceo and i'm so stoked for okay
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I'm not going to spoil anything because I don't want to give John any ideas. I am torn between two picks right here. Well, actually three picks now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I'm going to go with the one that I know a little bit more about because to be fair, one of these picks, I don't really know much about other than I, it's like, dude, he probably is a really good worker from what I see in like some of the game trailers and gameplay and stuff. But, I don't know. So I'm going to go with the person that I do know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And, you know, to go along with Isaac Clark from Dead Space, I want somebody that is absolutely dedicated to the job, somebody that can work with other people, because let's be honest, you need it's a team environment. You know, we need somebody that can work with people. I want somebody that can work with the most difficult people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
out there character in a video game, you know, somebody that can still stay on task and focus while this guy's talking to doors and, and, and trying to retrieve his shoes or a tie from a ceiling fan. I'm taking my boy, Kim Kitsuragi from disco Elysium, because I cannot think of a more loyal, hardworking, honest person that I want working for my company than Kim Kitsuragi, man. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
that's that's a solid pick that's a good worker and he saw pleasant to be around yeah you know like he can deal that's right you haven't played disco have you oh i haven't played it i know very little about it other than you guys you guys should have yeah john i feel like you would love disco elysium he probably would yeah i feel like it would blow your mind like legitimately
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Might change your mind. All right, John, it is your very last pick. It is the person who John wants to be the CEO of his company. I am very curious on this one, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I'm like, dude, I better not. They can't snipe me on this, but you know, this is going to be a neat one because listen, We have always tried to make it where we can't just pick Lara Croft, Kratos, Master Chief, and some of these most iconic people. And this draft, I'll be honest, I'm not seeing it, man. So we don't have to ban any picks. We don't have to do any of that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
So I went with Grand Admiral Thrawn. I mean, Grand Admiral Thrawn is absolutely who you want leading a company, but it's specifically the Lego one, and he doesn't have a brain.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I mean, I, I love the star Wars pick. I'm here for, for star Wars characters, man. Heck yeah. Yeah. So, all right, well, let me give the rundown of these teams then. All right. So I'm just going to go in order that we, uh, well, no. Okay. So Ryan has GLaDOS as his CEO, Commander Shepard as his manager. He's got Gordon Freeman as a lowly worker. Poor Gordon, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
That's the one I'm having a hard time swallowing. You don't know what company we even have. I'm just saying this poor Gordon, man. After everything this man's done for the world, he's just making minimum wage at a company run by GLaDOS of all things.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Because GLaDOS is the CEO. You think she's going to be giving benefits to people? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I don't know what to say.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
As much as I'm slandering Gordon Freeman being a worker, this might be my favorite pick in the draft. Our boy Benji is the worker on Ryan. And then Victor Sullivan, well, Ryan, you almost ended on a great note with Benji.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
All right. And then I have Tom Nook as my CEO. I've got Cortana as my accountant. I've got Lester Kress from Grand Theft Auto 5. That's a weird one, man. As my manager, I've got Isaac Clark and Kim Kitsuragi as my very dedicated, honorable, hardworking workers. And then John... John has Link and Luigi as his workers. That is an odd pair of workers right there. But you know what?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I got to give you credit. They will get the job done, dude. They will absolutely get the job.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
You're going to have some weird noises going on. that's fine that's fine that's fine captain america as his manager that's a good one that's a good one that is a that is a good one uh and then he's got to be as the accountant that's a great pick by the way i mean to me can be a great pick in just about anything if you ask me
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And then Grand Admiral Thrawn off the wall out of left field. I didn't even know what game this guy was in. But Lego Star Wars, it is as the CEO of the company. So now let me just get this straight. So just to be clear, your company is evil because Grand Admiral Thrawn is, you know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
But creativity is absolutely going to come into play on this one. So we're going to get to that in just a second. But, oh, my goodness, boys, do we have some people to thank today. I mean, listen, we always say, hey, you know, we we need the support of our listeners. People can sign up to support this podcast and keep it going. And one of the ways that we say thank you is a shout out on the show.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
If these people would just quit rebelling, everything would be great, man. If the Jedi would just go away, things would be awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Versus Emperor Palpatine?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I can't argue with you there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Honestly, Grand Admiral Thrawn's pretty cool, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I know who Tywin is. I mean, yeah, I'll be honest, man. Lawful evil, they think about their decisions, man. You know? I mean, they really do. They ponder it. They're smart. They just, you know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
What is evil?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Stop boosting his picks. What are you doing? The Empire is just trying to bring peace and order to the galaxy, guys. And this pitiful rebellion rising up and causing all kinds of strife and blowing up buildings and Death Stars and all this other stuff, man. Like, yeah. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Hey, real quick, let's go through some honorable mentions of other people that might be on y'all's list. I had Morden Solis and Garris from Mass Effect. Honestly, both would be really good workers, CEOs even, but they're just a little too nerdy. I don't know that I need that caliber of person in just a worker role. I'd never do that to these genius people and put them in a worker role.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I had Sam Bridges as my other worker from Death Stranding. Uh, that's the one that I said, Hey, I'm not sure. I don't really know a whole lot about this guy, but it seems like he works really hard and he's willing to walk across alien landscapes to deliver packages. So I feel like he'd be a good worker. Um, and that is it for my honorable mentions. Ryan, did you have any on your list?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I figured you'd have snake on your list somewhere. Just wondering where to plug them in at.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
John, what about you? Do you have any other possible candidates?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that's why. Okay, so I did have one other. My CEO, I told you I was torn between two guys, and I just felt like this was a little too... It would be good to work at my company, by the way. Two on the nose, but my other option for CEO was Batman. Because it's Bruce Wayne. He literally is the CEO slash owner of the company, but- He doesn't do anything with the company, though.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I was like, I think he's just going to be- Is he the CEO? He's the owner. I mean- That's a majority shareholder.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. He made Fox the CEO, right? I think he did. Yeah. Hmm. So I mean, I can make him the CEO if I wanted to.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Batman slash Bruce Wayne was my other choice for possible CEO. But then I was like, I don't know, man, he might just be, you know, Bruce Wayne's kind of a playboy. He's just out partying and, you know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And we got some people to shout out, man. This is this has been an epic week for us. So a big thank you to Brett Hutchinson, El Capo de Soldati and Mike Germainio, who all signed up for rare status. We have DaZombieTrick, who signed up for epic status.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I need you here, man. I need you looking at these reports and these spreadsheets.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Oh, my goodness. Hardest farmer in rust. Hardest farmer in rust. Oh, man. All right. Well, that is it for this draft. We're going to let the listeners decide. Listen, if there was somebody that we absolutely whiffed on, if there's somebody that we should have taken and just did not, come let us know about it. Our Discord server is amazing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
we say this all the time and there's a reason we say it all the time look we know that everybody in the world has a discord server i've been there i've hopped in i'm like oh man these guys have a discord i hop in there's eight people in the server and nobody's talking and then you're like okay well now i gotta leave and this seems awkward because i don't know what to do i promise you our discord is not like that it is super active we have the best gaming community on the planet
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
We have people join every single day that then go, oh, my gosh, you guys were right. I'm so glad I found this place. So, you know, come join us. Come hang out with us. Chat video games. Lurk if you want. And just see the game recommendations and the game chatter and stuff like that. But it is awesome. It is family friendly.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
It is a fantastic place with zero toxicity, zero judgment, just a bunch of gamers hanging out together. The link is in the episode description for that place. If that sounds good to you, then you're the kind of person we would love to have.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Again, if you want to be like one of these six amazing people that we thanked at the beginning of this episode, there is a link in the episode description where you can also support the show. And hey, if you just found us and you're joining us for the first time. Number one, thank you. We're glad you're here.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
But make sure you click that follow button or that plus button so that you get all of our episodes the day that they release. That's in your podcast app. So make sure you follow us as well. So guys, who's got the best team? Me. Me. John's got the hottest team. I got the best team. John just shrugs. He's like, dude, it's me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I don't know. Luigi might be bringing that down a little bit, but Hey, we're going to let the listeners decide. We will post the, these lists on social media after this episode airs, but come let us know what you think.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Uh, bragging rights, glory and honor.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Alright, steak.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Alright, that's it for this episode, everybody. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, happy gaming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And then somehow, some way, two of our longtime listeners, awesome members of our community, realized that we had spots open in our legendary tier, which we did not even know were open yet. Speaking of sniped.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And so, I mean, listen, we love you gents, but a huge thank you to hypnotic pyro and Panzer Faust Ali for signing up for legendary status. Yeah. And, and listen, a deal is a deal. The perks remain. We, we said long ago that if you signed up legendary, you got to hijack a host and make one of us play a game of your choosing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And, you know, just because we're dumb and we didn't realize that there were spots open, we are men of our words. We're going to honor that. And, you know, we'll find out soon enough what game they're going to pick for who to play. But we are going to have some hijack-a-hosts coming up, too. So...
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And maybe I have been doing some covert operations to try to get you to have no collusion.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I'm just saying you got to give the people what they want, man. Yeah. So, listen, thank you to everybody for supporting this show. If you are a supporter of the show, we wouldn't be here without you. If you would like to support this show, there's a link in the episode description. It's an easy tap of that link. And before you know it, you can be a supporter as well. And, you know, beep.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
bringing the best gaming podcast in the world to more people so thank you all of you for that guys you guys ready to get into this draft yeah i'm stoked let's do it so we randomize this using our all sentient ai uh to just randomize this draft order uh because this does come into play man sometimes there is a pick where you were like i absolutely there is a a like
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And joining me, he is the CEO of his own company, but he's not quite sure what an accountant and a manager do. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
An obvious winning pick here at the first choice. So the draft order is going to go Ryan, me, and then John. And to keep things fair, we do it in a snake draft. So it will then go John, me, and then Ryan. Rinse and repeat until we have filled all of these positions. Let's go, boys. Let's do it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Let's do it. Okay, so one more reminder. You have to fill a CEO spot, an accountant spot, a manager spot, and then two workers spots. I'm curious to see where Ryan's going to start on this one. Ryan, take it away, buddy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
That's a good pick. I have GLaDOS on my list, but I did not pick her to run the company. She's too selfish man she's only gonna care about glados and glados only your company's gonna be making minimum wage while the ceo's buying lamborghinis and ferraris and and and you know so it'll be laying off 200 people yeah nintendo or microsoft
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
glados to lead the company now she is she is really smart and as we know from portal she is also very dedicated uh stubborn a little lethal a little crazy Not rational, though. You know, she's a good speaker, though, too, man. That voice, dude. Like, just dictating.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. All right. GLaDOS for Ryan to start this off as the CEO, man. All right. Heck yeah. Okay. CEO GLaDOS there. All right. It's my turn. Now, I am torn here, guys. I have two guys that I am like, man. Like these are both like really good options for a CEO, but I think, I think one of them. All right. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to guys. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Listen, I may not be a huge fan of this game. All right. This game is not my style of game, but it, but my wife loved this game. And if there's one name that I have heard people talk about their business acumen, their ability to pick up and go to an Island and, and start a shop and have employees and know how to make money and run this business. I'm taking Tom Newton.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
boys from animal crossing one of the best business leaders in any game ever you love them you hate them but this man thing raccoon tanuki i think is actually the term for it absolutely knows how to run a business and that's who i want heading up my company
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Oh, Sarah doesn't listen to this, does she? No, not anymore.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
He knew how to capitalize on that, man. Where a lot of businesses were going out of business, Tom Nook's just swimming in the cash.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Sorry. You know I love you, Sarah. Gosh, no. And joining us, he may love Disney, Nintendo, and other mega corporations, but at least he doesn't love Ubisoft. It's John.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I was hoping I sniped that. John started nodding, and I was like, please tell me that with my first pick.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Oh, I'm not worried about my workers. I don't think you guys are going to think the way I'm thinking when it comes to the workers. So, John, it is your pick, buddy. What do you got?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Ryan drafted GLaDOS to run a company. This company is the shadiest, most seedy company ever, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
He's quiet too, man. You know, you might get a complaint or two about like, Hey guys, that weird dude's making noises again. And it's kind of distracting to people, but you don't ever have to worry about him. Like, you know, just gabbing up a storm and taking away from productivity and stuff. Plus, he's a pretty good cook, man. He's a good cook?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
All right, so John taking Link as a worker, the first worker off the board. And, John, it's right back to you, buddy. You actually get another pick now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
As a worker, huh?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I mean, let's be honest. Luigi's also the better worker. Mario gets distracted. He doesn't know what castle the princess is in in the first place.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Oh, yeah, he's going to be risen up all the other people at the company. Luigi's like, look, man, I'm a good worker. I might have my eye on somebody, but he's not going to get distracted nearly as much. All right, so John's starting off with Link and Luigi as his workers. Now, this is where I was a little worried, but you didn't take this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And the other spot that I was worried about was accountant. And hearing Ryan say he thought about Tom Nook for the accountant makes me go, I better lock in this accountant role while I can, because this one was hard. Now, an accountant has to be smart. They have to be organized. They have to be good with numbers. I mean, they really need... I mean, some people would say a lot of computing power...
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
good at calculations thinking on their feet uh you know i'm taking cortana boys as my accountant i mean i don't have to worry about taxes i don't have to worry about numbers cortana's got all that taken care of dude that's you sniped me again back to back i swear right i did ryan
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Or, hey, our buddy DK Matt on the wrestling episode. How many people have thought, this is my wheelhouse.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Welcome to the strategy in a draft, boys.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
She's like the most supreme AI in the universe, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
All I need is her to crunch numbers and keep the IRS off my back.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
I didn't want to say there might be other reasons, too. This is strictly professional, boys. She can hang out in my office. She doesn't need a lot of space. All right, Ryan. Well, now that you have been double sniped, you do get back-to-back picks. Now, is this where the tilting and the scrambling starts?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
And then they get smoked in these drafts, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
Okay. You, you took my next pick, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Corporate Kombat: We Built a Business Using Only Video Game Characters | Gaming Podcast
One, one snipe deserves another. You, that was absolutely going to be my next pick man. If he was their commander shepherd, she's the Who else would you want managing all these people? This man can bring the universe together and to fight the Reapers. It's like, this dude knows how to manage people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
pve type stuff and you find chests and you get gear and then we came across another squad and then we wrecked that squad but then another squad came up and absolutely obliterated us without like a second's thought and it was like i don't know how these guys got so strong you can extract with this gear um but this is very much like a it looks like league of legends in a way yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
but I don't get it, man. Like I don't, I mean, I, I, you know, just because you can mix eight genres together, doesn't mean you should mix eight genres together. Um, I will say this, the game seemed well done. I mean, the combat felt crispy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
The, the graphics were that cartoony kind of league of legends, the type, you know, graphics, um, the whole idea of you might come across another squad is terrifying. Um, I just, again, I played like two matches. I didn't know what was going on. We got absolutely obliterated in one of the matches. And then I just kind of went, yeah, this isn't really for me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
I mean, there was even like an escape from Tarkov insurance thing before you go in. It's like, do you want to buy insurance for your gear? And that's when I was just like, dude, I'm not going to like this game. I don't like that. I don't like Tarkov. I don't like these sweaty, lose your gear if somebody beats you kind of things either. So I do think it was a well-polished game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Should we read a review? I think that's what the people want to hear. I think so, too. So that's what we're going to do, man. Let's get back to it. This review comes in from the one and only Stylin' Steve, great member of the community, biggest fan of Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 I ever saw. Ever in the world. And it's titled, What's Not to Love?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
this one's just not for me. And I don't think you got a chance to play that one, but I know this is not for you, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. It's time to talk games, baby! We've been diving into the Steam Next Fest, and while there's a never ending supply of demos, we played a few and have a couple that might be worth your time. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
I do think there are people that would probably really enjoy this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, the combat was good. I mean, it's got the little hold the button to line up your telegraph and release, and then your guy will zip through. And it's very complicated where it's like if I hit somebody with this one ability, now my next ability does two times the amount of damage or something like that. Yeah. Again, this is not shade against this game necessarily.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
It's just absolutely not my kind of game. But if this sounds like it's something where you're kind of like, ooh, then Seekers of Sky Vale might be well worth checking out for somebody as well. Ryan, what do you want to talk about next?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Okay. This is the game that I think is the best. Yes. Out of the ones that we played. So tell us... I mean, I even joked because this is literally what you've been doing the last week, you know, is just delivering stuff to people. Yeah, I've been pretty busy. At all costs. Like having to build carts and stuff in the parking lot.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, dude, I absolutely got some disco vibes. I got some, um, I've heard people reference like crazy taxi, but I, I vaguely vaguely remember crazy taxi, dude. Um, so yeah, tell, tell the people what this game, like, what do you, what do you do and deliver at all costs? Right. Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And it says, these fine, sophisticated gentlemen use their buttery smooth voices to bring accurate, updated information and knee-slapping entertainment to gamers worldwide. You are now wondering to yourself, there is no possible way a podcast can be this groundbreaking while also having the best community in gaming on Discord.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
I will say this too. So I played this game a pretty good bit. This and Grit and Valor were the two that I actually played the most. And one of the quests in Deliver at All Costs was the fireworks one. That's kind of like the beginning quest. And then you realize like everybody's mad at me. You've got people chasing you down.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Your truck's falling apart because these fireworks are exploding on it and stuff. I did a quest where you have to go pick up some watermelons. OK, but you show up and this lady's yelling at this guy because these are the nastiest, most rotten watermelons that exist. And the lady's like, I can't believe you tried to bring me these nasty watermelons.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
So the guy's like, hey, buddy, you're the delivery guy. And you're like, yeah, he's like, come with me. So you load up this crate of watermelons into the truck and you take them to a plant to get dyed green so that they don't look nasty. Right. So then you have to catch all these watermelons in the back of your pickup truck. But then it pops up and it says 40 out of 40. And I went, Oh no, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And you start driving and I hit a bump in like four watermelons. So the physics in this game are fantastic. Number one. So these watermelons are splashing around the back of the truck. They're falling out of my truck. And I just see that number ticking down and you gotta, you gotta arrive with 20 out of the 40. Uh, And then it's like, so we take them to get dyed.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Then we take them to get like sprayed with something so they don't stink. And you do this big long delivery quest where these watermelons can't fall out of the truck. You're getting chased by people. You've got to secretly back it into the spot so that it can spray the perfume on them and stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And then you eventually take these watermelons back to the lady and she thinks it's the most pristine shipment of watermelon she's ever got. And then the same rotten watermelons. And you're like, dude. So the humor in this game, number one, stands out to me. Yeah. What I thought was really cool is not only are you driving around and you're doing this stuff, but you can get out and run around.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And one of the missions that I got as I went back to my apartment was now a parkour mission where I had to go across rooftops and like little pipes and stuff to go get this thing that this guy wanted because he thought there were like sandworms down in the street. He's like, don't touch the ground. And I was just like, so the humor in this game is fantastic. The driving mechanics are good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Give them a chance and you will have no choice but to yell, by the beard of Zeus, where has this podcast been all my life? I love it, man. That's so good. Anytime you get to reference Zeus's beard. Yeah. Or if you're Nicolas Cage, Zeus's butthole. That's a reference. Is that from The Rock? I think that was from The Rock. I think so. Why in the name of Zeus's butthole are we...
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
They, you, they absolutely lean into the, how can we make this chaos for you? Whether it's watermelon splashing out the back of your truck, fireworks going off everywhere. Um, you know, just heavy traffic that you have to deal with and you're on a timer, that kind of stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
It changes the mechanics. This game is very high on my radar because just playing this demo really caught my attention. Very well polished. Again, it's not all just driving. There's on-foot stuff as well. You're talking to a guy up on the roof of your apartment complex and that kind of thing. This one...
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Is getting a you know, it's a little early because, again, it's just the demo, but I am probably the highest hyped on deliver at all cost out of out of all the games that we played for sure. So I highly recommend people check that one out because there is something to that game for sure. So.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Um, okay. So let's talk about this game is near and dear to me, Ryan. I don't know that this is up your alley, but monster train. So to me, when people talk about the roguelike card games, there is slay the spire and there's monster train. Like to me, those are the top two. I like hearthstone a little bit still, even though hearthstone makes me rage sometimes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And I only play battlegrounds in hearthstone brings out angry Josh. Yeah. Blizzard games do this to me, man. I just need to stay away from Blizzard apparently, you know? Um, so, but monster train was one of like, I really enjoyed the heck out of this game. I played it a lot. It's a very, very well done roguelike card game. Um, the premise in monster train is you're the minions of hell.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
The, uh, you're trying to like get to this place where you can, hell is freezing over basically. And you're in this train to try to like reignite the fires of hell or something like that. Um, and then it's just a card based game. You play on three different levels, angels invade your train and you're trying to like defend against these angels kind of thing. Well, lo and behold, Monster Train 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
I didn't even know this was a thing until I'm looking through demos and I'm like, wait, Monster Train 2? It's us coming out. Yeah, like what the heck is this? Monster Train 2 is Monster Train. I mean, it is very, very, very similar to Monster Train, which for me is fine.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
It kind of mixes the, you get these different races in Monster Train that you can unlock and then they have cards in and of themselves. And then you get the combo because you always have to play two races at once.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Ryan's like, let me put my little kid gloves on here before I pummel your game, Josh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
I get that. I tried. I did. I put in effort, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
I feel like Ryan feels guilty. He's like, I'm sorry, Josh. I was like, yeah, this is my hero.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
I have played about 15 different roguelike card-based games, dude. I mean, I get it. They all start to blend together. I like that genre, but it's kind of saturated at this point. But Monster Train is one of the top ones in that genre, in my opinion. So for people that might be looking for something in that roguelike card-based game genre, that one is absolutely worth checking out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And this is not, it's Monster Train 2, but you never had to have played Monster Train to understand this either. All right, Ryan, we got one more, buddy. Athermancer. So this is a game that I saw.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
It's good to be back. Underrated film. Oh, dude. The Rock. I love The Rock, dude. It is one of my favorite action movies, honestly, ever. It's so good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
I think I don't want to miss credit, but I think it was Jiggle Puff, who is one of our listeners and a fantastic community member in our gaming Discord server that we have that everybody should join, by the way. It is the awesomest gaming community in the world, if you don't believe us. Try it out and see, because you're going to believe us after that. But somebody mentioned Aethermancer.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And so as I'm looking through demos, I went, you know what? Let me try this game out. I saw the preview for it. It looked like a kind of old school pixel game. almost final fantasy ish in a way. But I think that's absolutely misleading because when I started to play this game, this is very much a like Pokemon clone in a sense.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
But I, as somebody that doesn't play Pokemon, I found this game to actually be pretty good. Um, the whole premise with this is again, it is a roguelike game. You go around and you fight these monsters. And if you stun one of them, you can capture it. You don't actually throw a Pokeball, uh, as pal world learned that'll get you sued. Um,
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
But you can capture it, and then once you capture a creature, you can then add it to your party. And then as you play the game, you can level up these creatures, and then they become stronger, and you can unlock abilities for them and things like that. Now, if a creature dies, dies. It's out. She gone. She gone. So there is that little bit of risk there, but the creatures are really cool.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
They all have kind of like elements that they can are good, like strong against and weak against. But then you can have like healing creatures that take care of your guys. You have these tank creatures that can shield your other creatures. I thought it was a simple game. And the more I played it, the more complex I realized the combat was.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And I kind of started to go like, dude, this is actually kind of cool, man. And then we saw a few other people in our community start picking it up. And then they were like, I thought this was simple, but this game's great. So what did you think, Ryan?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
That's very true. That's very true. Yes. And we have caged a lot of people. People are like, what is getting caged? What is getting caged? It's when you take pictures of Nicolas Cage, stickers and all that, and you just put them all over somebody's house.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, the depth of the combat is, I think, what caught me off guard. There is the basic attack earns you like almost like we'll just call it like Pokemon power in a sense. So if you basic attack, you get, you know, earth energy or air energy. Right. And it's like. You have to have enough of that to do a special attack.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
But it's like, do I build up for this really big special attack or do I just spend it right away kind of thing? If you can break the enemy's element, then they get stunned, which is how you capture them. But they also take double damage or extra damage when they're stunned. You know, oh, this guy's weak. Do I use my tank to shield him? But now my tank's not going to attack that guy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And I could have took that guy out kind of thing. I mean, so it actually I was pretty impressed with the depth of this combat because this game looks simple on the surface.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
but then it's not. And even in the overworld, when you're running around, like, you know, you can see the enemies, but it's like, you can do this dash attack to where you get to like surprise them and get like a bonus hit and stuff like that. Um, there's like a little bit, I won't say platforming, but there's a little bit of like zipping around to try to stay up on these cliffs. And
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
You know, again, you level them up and unlock new abilities and stuff like that. So it's like there's like it's a very good mix of like the turn based combat, that Pokemon feel with the creatures and stuff, the progression systems in the combat and things like that. So I was actually like I did not think I was going to like Aethermancer at all.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So they're just constantly finding. Yeah. And then they're like, why is Nicolas Cage all over my house? He's been caged. Why not? Yeah. You know what, Ryan? Before we get into these games, man, it's been a while, buddy. Let's do it. What the heck have you been playing, man?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And then by the end of it, I was kind of like, dude, this game's pretty fun, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
I really am, man. But then hearing a lot of people in our community talk about it too and saying almost the same thing, like this game caught me off guard, dude. I'm having a blast, was like really neat to see as well. So I think there's absolutely something there with Aethermancer also. I agree. What was your favorite one you tried, Ryan?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. That's just... The humor in that game, the driving and the mission structure, I think is going to be really, really good, dude. The polish in that game is good. Yeah. I mean, it's... Here's a little thing, right? I went into the bathroom and it's like you can interact with the sink and the water comes on. You interact with the toilet and the toilet flushes. And it's like...
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
that's such a dumb thing. It's so stupid, but it just shows you that it's like, they care about the game and they're like, we should have the toilet flush if somebody tries to work on it. And then, and then I go and I'm like, yeah, this is great. So yes, I think that, I mean, for me, deliver at all costs is probably the standout one grit and valor.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
I could see being the game that I probably play a lot is just that chill. I have 15 minutes to play around. Um, let me just see what I can do kind of thing on that one. And again, good progression with grit and valor also. So yeah, All right, man. Steam next fest boy. Sometimes it's overwhelming. You know, it's just like, how do I, what do I check out? How do I play these?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
You know, that kind of stuff too. So, um, so yeah, I mean, for people that are wondering, we will absolutely be covering split fiction soon. We're still trying to decide on a valid, I think of nothing else. We'll just do a short episode on a vow just to kind of give some thoughts there because I know that people have said like, Oh,
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And Avowed is one of those games that seems to be splitting the internet where people go, it's hot trash. And then other people are like, did you play it? Because it's not hot trash kind of thing. And so I always like to give a little bit of clarity or just our opinions on that as well. So maybe we'll do that sometime in the near future. We'll get to it. After Split Fiction. Yeah. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
So awesome. All right, everybody. Well, thank you for joining us. Oh, it's so good to talk some video. I know this was fun, dude. I know. I love it. Yeah. So, so yes, the gaming content is back people. Again, we're going to weave in a few of these cause we have some cool guests coming up, but I know there's been conversation, uh, you know, and it's one of those things.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Listen, we, you know, we're gamers. We're that's, that's our, our nature at heart. We, you know, it's, we love feedback from the community. You know, we, we, we try to take that with, you know, with some good constructive criticism, uh, But also, you're not going to please everybody all the time. But this is also why we try to vary up our content. This is why we do silly episodes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
This is why we do deep dives and game reviews. This is why we do gaming news and stuff like that as well. Because it's like, dude, gamers don't just play one game and that's it. And so that's why we try to cover a wide range of stuff. And honestly, like I said, talking to some of these people has just been absolutely incredible. We've got to meet some really neat people.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And so we'll continue to do that, just not quite at the pace that we've been putting those things out there either. All right. Awesome. Well, thank you, everybody, for joining us. If you haven't done so already, please take a second to follow and rate the show. If you're on Spotify, you can rate us five stars.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
If you're on Apple, you can still rate us five stars, but you can actually leave a written review like style and Steve did at the beginning of this episode. And there's a good chance we'll read it on the air. If you would like to support the podcast, if you like what we've been doing, and this is one of those things we've said, we've been trying to really focus on giving to charity and stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
The reason that we can do that is because people support this show. And so if you have it on your heart to do that. Yeah. I mean, legitimately it's because of the listeners. And so, you know, you are a reason you are the reason that we are able to give to these charities and help like make a wish, um, and the bungee foundation and stuff like that. So to make all that happen, we need your support.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
You can do that over at multiplayer squad.com. So, all right, that's it for this episode, buddy. Ryan, let's go play some split fiction, man. Let's go. Yeah. All right. Until next time. Happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Okay, so listen... I'm seven hours into Split Fiction. I think I'm halfway through, if not a little bit more than halfway through. You were three, four hours in, maybe?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And I'm loving every minute of it, dude. We're not going to spoil it. We are deep diving split fiction sooner rather than later, by the way. Yes. Because this game is something that we need to talk about very soon. You asked me the very first night, how are you liking it? Yeah. And I referenced another game. Do you remember what game I referenced? I don't.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
I said, this is blank levels of fun that I'm having.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
I mentioned Astro Bot. I said, dude, I'm talking Astro Bot levels of fun. Ryan's like, ding, ding, ding. Yes. That's all I'm going to say. I'm just going to leave that cliffhanger for the people right there. For me... I'm having astrobot levels of fun with split fiction, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Yes. So besides Split Fiction, which we really need to hurry up through this recording because my friend is actually waiting on me to play. So are my kids. Have played Avowed. We're kind of struggling with Avowed because it's like we've been talking about doing an episode on it. I am 15 hours into Avowed. I know you are not very far. Life's gotten kind of crazy for you lately.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
So people are asking, are we going to cover Avowed? I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know. We'll see. We shall see. Yeah, we'll see on that one. Avowed is complicated because it's like there's good parts and there's not so good parts. And I don't know if I want to... I don't know. People are going, what do you mean you don't know, dude? And it's like, here's the thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And joining me, he's been playing the real-life version of Deliver at All Costs this last week, but he's here now to talk games and chew bubblegum, and he's all out of games. It's Ryan. Oh, I mean, he's out of bubble gum. He's out of bubble gum. Oh, okay. We're here. Oh, that's right. We're here for games. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Games, games. We're a gaming podcast. That's right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
If you were 15 hours into Avowed already, I would think like, yes, let's just do an episode on it. But it's like, I don't know that making you play Avowed for 12 more hours and then us doing it is going to be worthwhile for people. Maybe we'll just make like a few reels or something.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
you know, to, to maybe some shorts on YouTube or something like that to give people an idea, or maybe we'll just throw out a little 15 minute bonus episode on a Saturday or something for people. Oh, that's a good, you know, I know people are wondering and it's like, yes, we do have some thoughts on a valid, uh, no, it is not a bad game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
That's, you know, that's all I'll say in my opinion on that one too. So, all right, listen, enough beating around the bush, Ryan, let's talk about some steam next best games, dude. Yeah. So here's kind of the crazy thing. Life has been nuts for us, like in a good way. This is no complaints whatsoever. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Our listeners that have been listening to the show for a while have like we have been just blitzkrieging this like guest interview behind the scenes. Look at the gaming world. I mean, we kind of decided, hey, dude, we really want to do this series of like interviews with people like voice actors, gaming psychologists and artists and animators. We've got a couple of composers and music guys coming.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
We've been talking to AAA studios, independent studios. So we've really been trying to cover just the gamut of things. We have a solo dev episode that we recorded that's going to be coming out soon. So we've really tried to just cover the world of gaming. And it's been really neat. It's been a lot of fun. But at the same time, it has taken up a lot of time for us.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And then we do have people going like, you guys going to talk about games anymore? We are absolutely going to get back to the gaming content. That doesn't mean that we're not ever going to do an interview. But we did kind of stop and we went, listen, dude, as cool as this series has been and as awesome as some of the people that we've met have been, dude, we're just gamers, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And we're going to start talking about games. So for the people that were wondering... Yes, the gaming content is returning. We are back, we are back, we are back, we are back. And so you're going to see that on a much more regular cadence that you're used to. Again, we'll have a few more interviews and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And that's not to say that we aren't going to get super hyped to interview some indie devs or something like that too. But this blitzkrieg of interviews is over for the most part. We're going to start kind of trickling some. I mean, I'm really excited to talk like... just as a teaser, we're going to be talking to the composer for little nightmares. Like the Tobias is the guy's name.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
He made all the music for little nightmares one and two. I'm freaking amped for that dude. Um, we got a music composer by the name of disaster piece, uh, who is quite famous. Uh, he made the soundtrack for a little movie called it follows. Now that's a kind of a niche horror movie, but the soundtrack for that movie is like award winning. And so we're going to have him on the show.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
So there's some really cool guests, but we're going to slow the roll, so to speak. So we're bringing you back your fun bonus rounds, your draft episodes, your twigs and stuff like that. So we hope you enjoyed the kind of look into the gaming industry. But yeah, you said it, Ryan. We're back. We're back to games, baby. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
So in that whole blitzkrieg, all of that is to say that we have had little time and I felt really bad because like, here's the steam next fest. We have covered every steam next fest that has ever existed. We've pulled games out and said, Hey people, here's some games that we got to play. Here's games that we tried. And then we were just like, dude, I haven't had time to play a single demo.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
You know, like what the heck's going on? Yeah. And then we got a little bit of free time before Split Fiction came out. And we said, dude, we have to talk about some of these Steam Next Fest games. So here we are. Now, I know you and Ace talked about some of the indie ones on the indie episode. I was a little jealous. I still haven't tried Mr. Sleepy Man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And you guys really got my attention on that one. So good. So we're going to talk about some of these Steam Next Fest games that we both got to play. And like I said, some of them, I'm actually kind of interested in a few of these. And then there's some where I was kind of like, cool, I got to play that. I don't know that that's for me either, but we'll still talk about it. So let's start.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. Dude, all these guests. Listen, we have loved every guest that we have had on the show. Amazing. Amazing. But, you know, sometimes you got to kind of be on your good behavior with guests and stuff. And you're like, we can't have these people thinking we're idiots, man. But we are idiots, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
I really like this game. I'm just going to preface that right away. This is my kind of game, but a game called Grit and Valor 1949. All right. And the best way that I can describe this game is it is a real time Into the Breach. Now, Into the Breach is a very famous indie game. It's a kind of puzzle battling game where you have these different units and you have to position them based on turns.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And it's very strategy oriented. If anybody's familiar with Into the Breach, they know very, very highly regarded game. Grit and Fowler is like Into the Breach. but it's real time. Like you actually got to move your guys around and they're getting attacked and you got to move them and you got to go over here and dodge this artillery fire and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Um, I know I got more time on grit and valor than you did. Cause I actually wound up playing this a lot longer. Um, I actually never reached the end of the demo. I'm not sure where this demo ends, to be honest with you. Cause I've, I think I put in like five hours in this game, dude. Yeah, I know. Right. So how would you explain grit and valor to somebody?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, this game kind of impressed me, and I wasn't expecting it, to be honest. I was a big fan of into the breach. I like turn-based strategy type games. There is like a little bit of that XCOM DNA with the like taking cover and it's a rock, paper, scissors type thing. Like you have a Mac that has like Gatling guns, but it's weak to like fire max, for instance.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
And then your fire max are really good against explosive max, but the explosive max are good against the, like the, the Gatling gun max kind of thing. So it's like, there's a very much a like rock, paper, scissors element to that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Yep, yeah. And so there's a lot of strategy there in how you play, but again, this is all real time. So you are moving this mech around and while that mech's walking over to the grid that you sent them to, you better move your other mechs out of the way and stuff like that. And the mechs are very specialized.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
So you have like an artillery mech, you have like this really fast, like flamethrower mech, and then you have an in-between kind of Gatling gun mech. And I'm sure there's other mechs in the game, but that's all I unlocked. And then as you play... and you beat these levels and you progress, because this is a roguelike game as well, you can then unlock the pilot barracks.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
So now you can put different pilots in the different mechs to give the mechs new abilities, like you were talking about, like that leap ability on the one mech.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Or one mech can lay mines as kind of a defensive thing. So now you've got this... Pilots coming into play and then you can add add-ons to your Mac so you can get gear that up their abilities and change things and their stats and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Well, listen, welcome in, everybody. Thank you for joining us. We are going to be talking about some of the Steam Next Fest games that we played. We did find a couple that I think are pretty darn nice. Yeah. And then maybe one or two that it's like, yeah, we played it so you don't have to kind of thing. But you know what we haven't done in forever, Ryan? What is that?
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
So it's very very customizable and then it just kind of follows the standard slay the spire tower design where you just start at you know one spot and then you beat that level and then you go to the next one and you kind of choose your branching path on how you want to go and Grit and Valor 1949 to me, it's very well done.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
It is a kind of relaxing game in the sense that it's not overly complicated, but the strategy kind of comes into play. And again, it's a really cool mix of Into the Breach meets XCOM in a real time action kind of format. I was pretty impressed by this one, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I think so. I think the upgrade paths and the replayability is really kind of through the roof on this game. So I would highly recommend checking out Grit and Valor 1949. It's got something there for sure. It's just a fun game. I'll tell you what, let's take a quick break and then we're going to come back and we're going to talk about four more games if we can quit talking so much.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
We'll be right back. All right, Ryan, let's talk about this next one. I don't know that you got a chance to play this. I got to play a game called Seekers of Skyvale, which the whole premise of this game is it is a hero MOBA extraction game, which is really weird to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Split Fiction Hype and Steam Next Fest Finds - Gaming Podcast
You team up with two other people, you get these kind of MOBA-like characters and these abilities that you get, and then you just go out into this big world and you fight,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Video game tester, voice actor, lead game developer, motion cap actor. These all sound like any gamer's dream jobs, but are they as fun as we think they are? Well, we're about to find out.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I mean, I think they're good video games, but the response to them and calling them some of the best games ever, I think is what we kind of take like some.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
So one other thing, and then we'll kind of get into some of these kind of insights into the voice acting industry and your experience with those. But you did mention that you love games where you can kind of get this emotional involvement with the characters that are in the game. Red Dead Redemption 2 being high on your list, obviously that explains that. Have you ever played Cyberpunk?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
It's kind of like podcasting, Chris. They'll let anybody do a podcast nowadays.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Um, uh, because I, that does sound like a different thing and really kind of like coming together, but yeah, it makes you feel like a spy, like legitimately, like you feel like you're James Bond at that point in the game, like the missions that they do.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Ryan starting his new career. We are going to get a little bit of insight into what it's like to be a voice actor and work in that industry and how that ties into gaming and things like that. But Chris, I wanted to just kind of give you a little bit of an introduction for the listeners. So We've had a chance to chat before recording it over email a little bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Well, we've got a plan and that's to talk about some voice acting, but we're going to do that right after we take this short break. All right, we are back and we are chatting with Chris Tester and you know, we are lifelong gamers and one of our tenants on this podcast is we are not professionals or people that honestly know the gaming industry all that well. We're just gamers at heart.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
We've been gaming our entire lives, so we're absolutely pumped to be able to kind of get a glimpse behind the curtain into these various aspects of the gaming world. And, you know, it's I think our natural curiosity is going to be pretty evident. So forgive any excitement or dumb questions that we might have on this, but it's kind of who we are, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
We ask the dumb questions because it's the things that we're curious about. So let's just kind of start off with a general overview. Like, what is a day in the life of a voice actor like? You know, I mean, just a top down view. We're going to get into some more specifics here and kind of hone in on that. Sure.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Honestly, yeah, because we see a lot of crossover between like gaming and anime and even like animated series and stuff like that. So I would say just in general.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And I got to be honest, man, this is an impressive resume. So for the listeners, you have worked on games such as Fallout London, Poppy Playtime, Warhammer Total War 2 and 3, Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader, Dark Souls 2, Lego Marvel Super Heroes 2, Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, and perhaps my personal favorite game, Bard's Tale 4.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Bard's Tale 4 is one of those games that I think is so drastically under known and underrated. And for an older gamer like me that loves that kind of old style, like dungeon crawler blobber is the term for that game. Yeah. I saw that and I just started nerding out, man. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I mean, honestly, that's super interesting because like, again, you know, it's one of those things where I think as gamers, we sort of glorify voice acting and we think, oh, you just have to have a good voice and then you just talk, you know?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
But I think that people miss the part where you are having somebody that wants you to perform in a certain way or certain lines and not mess up your words and not have to do multiple takes and things like that. It's a technical thing because you don't want to get into your head about it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
you so you let's let's just I'd love to kind of dive into this a little bit more because one of the questions that I wanted to actually ask you about is how writing in a game affects like your role because again you know it's one of those things as gamers I don't know that we fully comprehend like you mentioned that you're given a script or you're given lines and sometimes you're not given things in front of that so you don't know what's coming up in the future but
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Is there feedback both ways, though? If you have some writing and you're like... This really, I mean, this would sound way better if I did it this way. This is really bad, guys. I mean, that's got to happen. I don't know who wrote this. This character will not say this at all. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I think as gamers, I mean, especially just as people in general, like, you know, AI, everybody's interested in it. We're seeing it more and more in things. But it's also very sterile. Like, I think we can just kind of tell. Like, we see that with graphics. We talk about the uncanny valley. And it's like, hey, this looks great.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
close to a human, but I know there's something weird and our brains just kind of go, yeah, something's off. And I think we see that or we feel that at least right now, who knows where it's going to be in five years, but I do think there's that sterleness to it where it's like, yes, it can do something, but there's just no soul behind it. There's no emotion or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Oh, I know who you're talking about. I can't remember the guy's name.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, it's awesome. I love that game so much. So shout out to Bard's Tale 4 for anybody that has not played it yet.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So I love getting this insight into some of the difficulties and like with, you know, like I said, the behind the scenes stuff, like I don't know how writing in a game affects voice actors. And if you kind of shake your head at a line or something like that and go, this is terrible. Yeah, you never do that out loud. Not outwardly. I get that for sure. But yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
So, and again, this kind of goes back to, I think as gamers, we sort of think of voice acting as a dream job. And it's one of those things where it's like, I have actually had a couple dream jobs in my life. I was a dolphin trainer for a couple years. My primary career now is working for a fantasy football podcast. Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Um, and, and it's like, so I kind of get the, the mentality that, Oh, this is a dream job. But even as like a dolphin trainer, there's still just the behind the scenes stuff where you're just like, dude, this is still work, man. Like it might seem really cool, but there's still just some, there's work and there's not the nice parts about a job always, you know, even if it is a dream job.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
So what is like for you, what is the worst part about voice acting? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Awesome. So Chris, one of the things we're doing, we actually kind of started this series where we're giving people insight into the kind of the video game industry and various aspects. We just actually did an episode where we talked to a psychologist who does nothing but kind of gaming psychology and trends and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Because on today's episode, we're going to be diving into the world of voice acting with an inside look at the fun and challenges voice actors can face. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, if we don't hear at least three impressions from him this episode, I'll be sorely disappointed.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Obviously, we're talking to you because voice acting, I think, is really near and dear to a lot of gamers. And it's something that we actually converse about a lot, uh, because you know, it, I think number one, it's, it's sort of that, uh, that attractive field where it's like, Oh man, that's such a cool job. I wonder if my voice could do that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I'll be honest. It's really cool to get this insight because, again, I think we have this idea and it's really neat to learn these kind of ins and outs on this. So we got to start wrapping things up a little bit, Chris. So I got to ask a dumb question. Sure. Yeah. Go for it. But when you do work on a game, do you go back and play that game? Sometimes.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Does it depend on just this looks like a fun game or is it like the- No, it's like everyone.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I'm the kind of person where I would absolutely play them because I want to see like how my work affected it. You know, even if it's critical of myself.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Um, we're going to do, uh, we're going to touch on like animation and even some like, uh, talking to some devs for like development of games and stuff like that as well. So we're really excited to have you. And it's funny that you mentioned like the creativity that you get or don't get, cause that's actually something I want to touch on a little bit later.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. All right, Chris. So as we wrap things up, we did want to take a minute to share some charity work that you're passionate about. And that's the National Association of Voice Actors. And you are currently a part of the campaign to raise money for voice actors that have been affected by the Los Angeles fires. What can you tell us about that? And where can people go to donate or help that out?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
That's awesome. We're going to include a link for people in the episode description, but also as a thank you to you and honestly to all the voice actors that bring us so much entertainment and games. We are actually going to donate $1,000 to Nava as just a thank you for all that you guys all do.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
we're going to need the three digit code on the back. Oh, okay. Yeah. Sure.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
We, we just, we have mad respect. Thank you guys. Wow. Thank you. Um, I mean, thank you for giving your time for, you know, for us, for our listeners. Um, again, you know, gamers, I think we, we genuinely have a lot of respect for voice actors and what you guys do and the enjoyment that you bring to our favorite hobby and the medium and things like that as well. So, um,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Is that 20? Well, wait a minute. That's leading me into my last question here. And that's, Chris, do you think you could do a better Arnold Schwarzenegger impression than Ryan?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
One time he nailed it. Well, listen, Chris, thank you so much for coming on the show. I mean, this is just honestly, it's been a ton of fun, but it's been really neat to kind of just get this look at voice acting.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And I think for our listeners, it's very eye-opening on a lot of the things that, you know, it is work. It takes talent. It's not just somebody that maybe is born with a good voice and somehow falls into jobs and things like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yes, absolutely. So thank you for just giving us this insight. I mean, it has been awesome to have you on the show. You've been a lot of fun. So thank you for just taking time out of your day and for our listeners to do all that. You know, thank you for your support of Nava. Like I said, we're going to throw in the support there as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And we will include a link in the episode description for people that that feel like they may have it on their hearts to help out with that as well. So thank you guys. Thank you. Awesome. Well, that does it for this episode, everybody. Thank you, Chris, for joining us.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
We have a lot more of these kind of looks into the industry and talking to people that make gaming possible and that allow us to be passionate about this and just make it fun. So thank you for what you do, Chris. Thanks again for joining us. That's it for this episode, everybody. If you enjoyed it, make sure you follow. Hit that plus button, that follow button in your podcast app.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
If you haven't done so already, make sure you rate us five stars. We'll see you on the next one. Until then, happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, we understand. Hey, we had to make a gaming podcast just so we had excuses to play video games.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Time to get back to work. Yeah. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
That's one thing I never understood. I want to play the games. I don't want to watch people play the games. And maybe that's just the old man in me coming out. Because it's like, I know there are a lot of people that love the Let's Play and the playthroughs and stuff. But it's a whole thing. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Don't you just want to play the game? Wouldn't that be better? So we did have a chance to chat about some of your favorite games. And I got to be honest, I love this list. And Ryan is going to really geek out with you as well, at least on these first three. So you did mention Red Dead Redemption 2. I think widely we, at least I know we agree.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
That's probably the greatest video game ever made, you know, in terms of like scale story, you know, that kind of stuff. We, we bicker a little bit back and forth on whether the gameplay is better or worse than God of War, which is my favorite, but that's, yeah. What an amazing game. Disco Elysium.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Now you mentioned Disco Elysium, which I love because for people that have experienced Disco Elysium, they know that, And then for people that haven't, they don't know.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And joining us, he is an actual voice actor with work in games like Dark Souls 2, several Warhammer games, and much, much more. It's the one and only Chris Tester. Hello. Hi.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Now, did you play the original version that did not have the voice characters? Yeah, that was the first one that I bounced off twice.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I dove straight into the voice version. And honestly, I got to say, the voice acting in that game is absolutely phenomenal. And it made the game. I even said, as good as this game is and as much as I love it, I don't know that I'd have the patience to sit there and just read everything. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
So that's that is one of those examples where I think really good voice acting hands down made that game what it is that people get to experience now. So but yeah, fantastic. And then another one on your list is The Last of Us, which is way up there for Ryan. I famously I do confess this publicly, even though I am ashamed.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
I got about four hours into Last of Us and then I just never touched it again. Right. I know that's a tragedy. I, I, I, you know, I watched the HBO show, so I know it's only a tragedy for you. Yeah. I mean, shame. I admit it, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
Oh, Chris, we are so excited to have you, man. Thank you so much for taking the time to hop on the podcast with us. It's not every day we get to interview a voice actor, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
It is funny too, as it's something we actually talk about as we get older, where the barrier of entry or that learning curve of a game can actually get to the point where it's like, I don't have the time to put into this.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
And it's like you said, it's why a lot of times we wind up just playing FIFA or for us like Marvel Rivals, where it's like, I don't really have to think about all of the systems in this game. I can just log in, I can zone out and I can have a good time.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast
So, Chris, I got to touch on this because I love this take. When we were chatting over email, we always like to say, hey, what's a hot take that you have? And you wrote back, and it's funny because this actually made me chuckle, but you did mention that you thought that the recent Zelda games, so Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, were... Basically overrated, is that fair to say?
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2: Heart of Chornobyl - Gaming Podcast
Ein bisschen.
Video Gamers Podcast
[Deep Dive] S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2: Heart of Chornobyl - Gaming Podcast
This is true.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
My brain has a really hard time going back to a game because it's like I've already experienced this. I know what it's about. I want to experience something new. And so I was very unexcited. I won't say unhappy because I love hanging out with you guys and playing games with you. But it was like I think I was absolutely the least excited to play this.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
you know, that, that was my stance going into it is, you know, I don't know what we can say about Minecraft. How long, how much are we actually going to play this game? What are we going to do? Are we going to make it far enough that I've made it further than I've ever played with my kids or anything like that? So it wasn't really happy with ACE because it was like, are we going to play Minecraft?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And I'm like, yeah, but rivals, but like rivals and ACE is like, but Minecraft. And we were like, dang it. So that was my thoughts going into it. Now, I will say that once we started playing, it reminds me I am a huge fan of survival crafting games.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
That is a genre that just resonates with some kind of dopamine receptors in my brain that goes, give me progression, give me crafting, give me things to look for, give me upgrades and all that kind of stuff. And I just I love that gameplay loop.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
My thinking is there's probably other games out there that satisfy that that are not in my brain like kiddie games. And that's not fair to Minecraft. Like, I will say that. But let's just kind of talk about we get into the actual playing of the game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Sometimes a game is so iconic, so well-known, so beloved by people, you feel like there's really not much you can say about it. But for five years now, people have been asking us to cover Minecraft. For five years now, we've resisted. That is, until now. That's right. On today's episode, we are finally covering Minecraft.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Who know what they're doing.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
yeah what happened like we found each other getting three people to actually stick together in a game and all run the same direction is almost impossible dude and when you have no compass and no map in the beginning let me tell you it does not go well so we're going to talk about kind of the intro of us hopping in together right after this break All right, we're talking Minecraft.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Okay. That is absolutely fair to say, man. Absolutely fair to say because you were. Ryan and I just trying to kill each other nonstop was any indication. Poor Ace. You're a patient man, Ace. Oh, man. Okay, so listen. You all out there have been shouting for Minecraft since the beginning of the inception of this podcast. When are you guys going to cover Minecraft?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
We finally boot up. We get everything loaded up. Ace sent us skins, which was cool. Like, I got to be Kratos. Ryan, you got to be... That was Big Boss, baby. Big Boss from Metal Gear. Ace was Ezio. Which one were you?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Okay, okay. Those guys kind of all blend together to me. Oh, don't you say that now. They're all different.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
How dare you? Um... So we all had our cool looking skins. You know, we had we had found the loaders and how to get in and Ace made a realm and all this stuff. So we load into the game and we all meet up. We're like, cool. We're in some Arctic snowy area. And Ace goes, we need to get out of the snow. And it's like, OK, so we start running in three different directions instantly.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
God, Ryan is lost. Ryan is just so lost. Ryan, we're going this way. Go to that blue mountain. Come here this way. Ace and I at least managed to stay within like visual sight of each other. So we're at least going in the same direction. And then we start looking around and going. Where's Ryan? Ryan's like, I don't know, man. I see a mountain. I see some water. I see some trees.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And we're like, dude, this is not going to go well. There's blocks. You guys see blocks? There's blocks around. So we spent the first 30 minutes trying to find Ryan, trying to meet up. We finally meet up, and it's nighttime. And I forgot that at nighttime, all the big baddies come out. And we finally managed to make it together, guys. We're on another adventure. Then all the monsters come out.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
We get stuck on the side of a mountain. I die. Now, thankfully, I have an amazing sense of direction. So I knew exactly which way to go. But by the time I got back to you guys, Ryan had once again wandered off. I think you died too, Ace, but you knew where to go.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
All right, so we all make it together finally. Ace and I made it together. We find an area that's not in the snow, and we're just telling Ryan, dude, just find the sandy-looking mountain. And Ryan is like, I don't see a sandy-looking mountain, so...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
that's about how the beginning description though like there's a million mountains that are sandy mountains what am i supposed to do there's mountains everywhere that are sand ice like everything like there's a hundred of those so okay find the tree find the tree with leaves it was by some trees that's true so we're trees we finally make it to a place that ace deems acceptable i'm still not sure why that area was acceptable ace is it just that it had trees
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Okay, fair point, fair point. So this is where the building begins. This is where I am in my element, man. I know how to craft hatchets. I know how to craft pickaxes. I don't know how to do anything else.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
We sound like the oldest, dumbest people in existence. I know, it's so bad.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
We have been gaming for decades, dude. Decades. And to just feel like an idiot in a game for some reason was just hilarious.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
When are you guys going to cover Minecraft? We have had people say, if I go legendary support, can I make you play Minecraft? And then we took that away because we were like, no, we don't want to play Minecraft. So... We kind of thought that it would be cool. And by we, I mean Ace. I have to give credit where credit is due. That said, hey guys, the Minecraft movie is out today.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Ryan needed a leash to keep him from running off.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I will say that once we found our home camp area and we started to build a base, Ace was like, we need beds so that we can spawn here. And I'm like, cool, I've played Rust. I know you need beds to spawn. This is great. Now I'm in my element. I think it was two minutes later that I killed Ryan for the very first time because I was like, I have a hatchet and he doesn't.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
So this is not going to be a fair fight. And then I died to, I think, a spider in the night. And then Ryan stole all my gear. And then he's like, well, now I got everything. And this is about how the next couple hours of playtime went for us, where it was just us doing really, really stupid stuff. Well, Ace, once again, is responsible for building us a house.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And, you know, just making treasure chests so that we have a place to store things. And Ryan and I are looking at a tree going like, what do you think about this tree, man? What do you think? How about that? If you chop it, it doesn't fall. And we turn around and Ace has like a two-story house built. He's got torches and treasure chests and an oven going and he's cooking stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And it was just like... This difference between like Ryan and I playing this game and Ace just being like, I know what I'm doing. Follow me, guys. Is this how people feel when they play Rust with like me? You know, where it's like, here, take this AK, put on this roadside armor. We're going to raid this base. And it's like, dude, but what am I doing?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Why do I have to turn wood into planks to turn it into a stick? That doesn't make any sense to me. Do you want barky sticks? I don't know. Trees have sticks on them. They're literally on a tree. You just reach up and you break one off.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
They come from the trees anyway, so why should they come off the ground? Okay, so to be fair, this is the other part where Ace was like, you guys are idiots, dude. We, Ryan and I spent five minutes harvesting wood. I mean, chopping down all these trees. We're like, dude, we're going to build a really nice house, man. We got all this wood. I go to look at my inventory. Where the heck is my wood?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Where is it? Ryan's like, dude, I know we just chopped down all that wood. Yeah, so apparently in Minecraft you have to pick up the wood.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I don't like messes in survival games either, but I ain't taking the time to chop down that floating tree either, man. That's the thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
We are literally recording this episode the day that the Minecraft movie releases. Ace has gone and seen the movie. He's going to have some thoughts for us at the end of this episode. But Ace hates us. And he said, guys, I think we should play Minecraft. I really do. It'd be kind of cool to to kind of have an episode to go along with the release of the movie.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I'll tell you why. I know why we couldn't get it, dude, because right-click is how you use everything.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I died outside our house, literally in front of the doors because a spider was killing me. And I'm sitting there. For me, my action key is X because I rebind stuff. But I'm sitting there smashing X going, why won't the door open, man? The door's locked. I think I was shouting at Ace saying, unlock the door and let me in. And he's like, what are you talking about, man? Oh, man. All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
So welcome to our old guys playing Minecraft episode, everybody. This is about how the entire play experience went. In all honesty, it was Ryan and I killing each other, Ace doing the whole progression thing. Ace built the Mines of Moria all on his own. It is the longest, most complex mine system I've ever seen in a video game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I don't even know how long that took, but I just remember getting tired running down the hallway that Ace had carved through the earth. A Balrog was there because he went too deep. Yeah. You know, a highlight of some of the gameplay was we apparently there's like traveling merchants in Minecraft. Now, like this game has come a long way.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I will say this from the times of playing with my kids when they were little to playing. Now, a lot has changed in Minecraft. Um, I remember one of the very early things that I thought were really kind of surprised me was that I was being chased by a zombie and I was over some frozen ice. And so I was like, dude, I'm just going to cut a hole in this ice.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
This zombie is going to walk straight towards me and he's going to fall into the water and I'll be safe. And he walks right up, and then he starts freaking walking around the hole that I had made. So I made the hole bigger, and he starts just walking around the bigger hole. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. Are they smart in this? And Ace is like, yeah, dude, they're real smart, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And I could not get that zombie to fall in the water for anything. So there are parts of the game where I was like, dude, this is really cool. Even earlier today, we hopped in for just a little bit. And like the thunder in the game, it started raining in the thunder. And I'm like looking around like, is it like we live in Arizona? It's not raining, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Like as simple as Minecraft looks, I have to give them credit. Some of the stuff in this game is pretty bonkers, like from a from like a production, like realism standpoint.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And Ryan and I, in a moment of weakness, said, OK, Ace, we know you know, you know, we love you, buddy. And so this is the least we could do.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And rob me. And then desecrate my corpse, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
So, okay. So, I mean, we could spend an hour just talking about our experience with playing this game together and the shenanigans that we get into. I think that is the inherent beauty of Minecraft, right? Like, you know, my kids playing with their friends, they always have a story to tell about something funny that happened.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I do not know that I've seen a game that can anger children like Minecraft can at the same time. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Like legitimately, I remember this huge drama where one friend blew up the other friend's house and that created like these really, really bad feelings that like turned into this like little childhood drama event where it's like eventually like the parents had to step in and be like, well, so and so blew up my daughter's house. Oh, my God.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Your kid, you know, and then it was like, dude, it's a game like we're talking about kind of thing. But. So I don't want to get too in the weeds as far as the individual experiences. I do want to recognize that Minecraft is fantastic for that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I mean, I think that people that love Minecraft love it not necessarily for the game mechanics, but more so that this is a sandbox where the experience that you have is the one that you make out of it. And that can always lead to some pretty incredible moments. So... Um, I promise this at the top of the show, let's just do a little bit of favorite kind of things in Minecraft for people.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
It's almost like a, this or that in a way. Okay. But let's do this ace as the resident Minecraft expert, which one are you choosing over the other, a hatchet or a shovel?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Which you need all the time.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. Above ground building or underground building? Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Mole people forever. Mole people.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I did. I was making a base underground where I was like, dude, why harvest all this stone just to have to put up stone walls? We have stone walls right here. And then I dug up a little bit and the water started pouring in and I started panicking as well. Best color of wood.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I can do some mighty impressive things in Elden Ring, you know, Marvel Rivals, but ask me to freaking figure out how to craft a torch and I'm lost, man. Wait, cold sticks? Wait, how do we... We gotta do what to make sticks? I gotta get wood first and then I gotta make planks to make sticks? Why can't I just make sticks from the wood, Ace?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
You just spruce it up a little bit? Spruce it up a little bit. There you go. I got it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Worst creature in the game. Worst monster.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I don't mind the skeletons, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
guys needed your fighter with you sorry guys okay oh yeah so some fight yeah for me it's the it's the tiny zombies man those things freak me out they do so i don't they're fast they really just like the regular zombies no problem man the little tiny guys like they just weird me out and i don't know why but that's yeah that's my pick too so um let's see here what's the best weapon
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I have fought the ender dragon in my day.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
No. Well, maybe. I think it was creative that they then turned into a survival game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
It was something like that. It's more like, I know how to make the nether portal. And then what's the, is it the wither? Is that the one where you have to get all the eyeballs and stuff? Yeah. See, I know some stuff about Minecraft, okay? Just because I'm not good at it doesn't mean anything.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Thankfully, we did not get all the way into the whole crazy enchantment tables and the libraries and the books and all this stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, we didn't make it that far because I did insist on playing some Marvel Rivals still in between Minecraft and Schedule 1 also. Yeah. Okay, so let's kind of start wrapping this up a little bit. I want to... Let's just talk about our overall thoughts on the game. I don't think we're going to rate Minecraft, because honestly, this isn't really... I'll let Ace rate Minecraft, honestly.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
But it's like, I mean... It's fine. My overall opinion of Minecraft is this. I can absolutely appreciate what Minecraft is to our world. And I will literally say that for our planet and for gamers, I love what Minecraft does, dude. I think it introduces kids to video games. I think it's safe for parents to let their kids play video games. I think it is the ultimate sandbox.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I mean, I have seen my daughter get super, super into bed wars to where she was learning how to do this click drag thing where she's like, if you drag your finger on the top of a mouse, you can click like 300 clicks a second or something like that. And it was teaching her all these higher mechanics and stuff. And I'm like, okay, this is a little crazy.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
There we go. That's also not to count the time that I accidentally placed a crafting table to try to escape a monster and then got locked into interacting with the crafting table instead of being able to jump. Yeah. So anyway.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
But this is also the same daughter that's now diamond level in Overwatch and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I mean, legitimately, I know that there are the plethora of mini games that you can play on like the high pixel servers where you can do the build battles. And it's an infinite game. And I love it for that aspect. I, as a fan of survival crafting games, would rather play other games. I cannot, for the life of me, get it out of my head that this game feels a little kiddy to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And I know that's not fair. That is not fair to Minecraft to say. It's not fair to anybody that is, you know, of any certain age that's like, but I love Minecraft and I get it. I also professed graphics nom, and I think it's just the graphics bug.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I really think it is. And when there's games like Rust, Satisfactory, and Shrouded, I'm actually getting very anxious. I mean, I've played a dozen of these survival crafting games. Subnautica is one of my favorite games of all time. I just can't get past something about Minecraft. I don't know what it is.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
That is not slandering the game in any way because I appreciate that this is the best-selling game of all time. Minecraft to me is a solid 7 out of 10 kind of game. It's weird because I can view it on the pedestal it deserves to be on, but my personal take on it is I would rather play a bunch of different survival crafting games.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I have seen the, like, the mod packs that you can get that really up the graphics and stuff. I don't think that's what it is, man. I think it's just the game mechanics to a certain degree, too. Like, I want combat. I want... A little bit more of like a fantasy setting.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And it's like even when you and I are fighting each other, Ryan, you know, and trying to kill each other, it's kind of just the it's more just the click, the timing of the click and then back up and go forward a little bit and then back up a little bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And I think it's just there's a simplicity to some of the game mechanics that I just don't resonate with me.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Welcome in, everybody. Oh, boy. So y'all asked for this. That's all I'm going to say. Dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I thought about this. I know what my issue with Minecraft is. I actually was while you were talking, Ryan, I was trying to figure this out. And it was like, I actually can pinpoint what it is. There are no surprises in Minecraft. So let's take a game like Valheim, for instance. Right. Like Valheim to me is one of the best experiences. I even mentioned it in my games.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I wish you could play for the first time. Right. Like, Valheim is filled with surprises. The first time you see a Cyclops in Valheim, it's huge. And you're like, what is that? The first time you move to a new biome, right? The first time you find a new element and the things that you can craft start just, like, popping up on your screen. And you're like, what is that? Like, I can learn that now?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And, like, to me, Minecraft is this...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
massive world right i mean you can run across minecraft for 20 minutes straight before you you know but it's like what's the surprise right like where is the payoff the payoff is diamond like everybody like it's all just let's get diamond you got to dig down until you find diamond but it's like there's no surprises in the actual exploration part of the game to me and i am somebody that needs that
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
subnautica this is why subnautica resonates so much with me is there were so many surprises that are thrown at you in that game and discovery and things like that um but but that's the problem i think is that there's just nothing that's going to jump out and me go whoa and i think that's the problem i have with minecraft like in all honesty i think that's the biggest detriment to me so all right ace
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I mean, Legos are, you're only held back by your imagination and Minecraft is honestly perfect for that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
It is wild dude you've seen the people that say I spent five years recreating like that's why I use Gondor because I saw a guy that was like it took me five years to recreate Gondor yeah there's one for Manhattan I think too like they created a to scale they like got the blueprints and they like floor by floor like all of Manhattan or something crazy.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I get that. Survival games are better with friends, because you also get more production and work out of them at the same time, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
All right. Well, speaking of falling asleep, Ace, you promised it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Let's hear it. Here it comes. All right. You got to keep it spoiler free is the only thing. I am keeping it spoiler free. But I want to hear your thoughts as a huge fan. Now, you even mentioned you were excited to go see this movie.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
You got busted the other day. I don't remember who it was, but somebody in our Discord was like, Ryan, are you playing Minecraft? And you were like, oh, oh, my son wanted to show me something. And I was like, well, the cat's out of the bag now. But I think they believed you, which nobody should ever do.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
That's definitely worth the price for me. $15 a pop might be a little... Mine were $16 a pop, man. They're going to see it tonight in like an hour. And yeah, the tickets are $16 each.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that's where they're going. 6 o'clock?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
That's the same theater, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
kids will like it I will say kids are gonna love this movie because it's there's not a lot of dialogue it's just funny quip after funny quip yeah here's the meme from the trailer you guys enjoyed and then just keeps going a mile a minute you're adulterating the best-selling game of all time is my opinion like you got the okay to make a Minecraft movie and then it is gonna be the cheesiest like terrible movie that people have seen in a very long time it's like there's a part of that's like
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
show the respect that this game deserves man like make a good movie and then they just went nah we're just gonna make movies gonna make a whole bunch of money dude what if they made it like like a minecraft like r-rated dark horror like the creepers like a slenderman yeah and it was like the enderman and stuff and then you're mining and there's all this dramatic like turn winnie the pooh into a horror movie how did they not make minecraft into a
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Listen, everybody, you all owe Ace a big thank you for forcing this episode upon us. Ace, you got what you asked for. We make no apologies for what we put you through in playing this with us. Let that be a lesson.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Five years. Five years people have been requesting this. And we just haven't done it because we've always said, what can we say about Minecraft, man? But you know what? It was finally time to talk about it a little bit. So we hope that you enjoyed these ramblings and these stories and just kind of our thoughts on the game. Hats off to Minecraft. You guys have changed the world.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Legitimately, you have created Created a generation of gamers that we would not have like otherwise in all honesty. So, I mean, I am thankful for that as well. Even if I think the gameplay is kind of mid.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
chop up blocks and trees and leave half the tree up you know yeah or not figure out how to open a door and then die on the doorstep so awesome all right well listen everybody we hope you enjoyed this episode thanks for hanging out with us it's fun to just kind of sometimes like come into a you know a game and just chat about it instead of having to get like this formal breakdown and all that too so that's kind of kind of a nice little change of pace for us also so
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Is it? Yes. Oh, man. All right. Okay, so listen. Let's just kind of set the stage here for people because this is not going to be an hour-long deep dive episode where we go into the mechanics of Minecraft. All of the different gameplay features, the various things you can do. Everybody in the world knows what Minecraft is. You do not need us to tell you about Minecraft at this point.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
That's going to do it for this episode. If you have not done so already, please make sure that you follow the podcast in your podcast app. That way you get all of our episodes the day that they release. We're doing a community night tonight. Now, it's a little late for you to hear this, but this is something that we absolutely love to do.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And so if you are not or have not been a part of a community night. We are trying to do these almost on a weekly basis, if not like every two weeks. But we get the community together to play games together because that is one of the best parts of gaming is that, you know, playing together with friends and having a good time. So we're about to do that here in just a few minutes.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And I think we're going to try to squeeze in some more schedule one, which we will very likely be doing an episode on to see if the hype is real. Or not. But we're going to go ahead and make sure that we put in our time on that one. Also, I need to make sure that Benji's paying us our money he owes us, too. Yeah, keep him in line, Josh. And Ryan's got a beef with Keith now, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Freaking Keith, dude. He shamed me. He shamed me, dude. That's what you get, Ryan. That's what you get. So awesome, everybody. Well, like I said, we hope you enjoyed this episode. Make sure you join our community. The link is in the episode description. Ace, we forgive you for making us play this game. We hope you forgive us for all of the craziness that we put you through.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
We're even then. So we'll see you until next time. Happy gaming. See ya. Peace out.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
So this is going to be somewhat of a unique... We're not really calling this a deep dive. It's just kind of Minecraft chat and stuff like that. But... Again, there's nothing we can tell you that you don't already know about Minecraft. So this is not going to follow that same kind of deep dive format. What we are going to do is we will give some of our thoughts.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
We will talk about some of the times that Ryan killed me. I'm sure Ace taming a llama and having it spit over everybody is going to come up and stuff. Kevin! Yeah! Yes, Kevin was the bomb, dude. And so we thought it would just be a little bit more fun to just kind of talk about the game
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Kind of do not Minecraft trivia, but like, you know, kind of like some just some general questions about Minecraft so that people that are fans of it can chime in as well. And then we'll give our overall thoughts on the game. And then Ace is going to tell us what he thought about the movie.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
No spoilers. I'm just going to say it. I have not heard anything good about the movie.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
It's funny because in about two hours, my kids and my nephews and nieces are all going to see it together. And even my kids who I mean, you know, let's be honest, they've been Minecraft fans since they were tiny. have been like, Dad, this movie's going to be so bad. Like, we know it's going to be bad, but at least we're going to go see it with our cousins and we can laugh at it or whatever. So...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
All right. Let's let's let's just start off with our history with Minecraft. OK, because Ryan, as as Dan's and the older fellers around these parts, you know, aces a little bit a little bit younger than us. You know, we're from different generations. You and I have played Minecraft for one reason and one reason only previous to this episode. And what is that reason, Ryan?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, he's the guy that would kill me over and over and over and then steal my stuff. The master thug, the scoundrel, the murderer himself. It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I'm like, sure thing, kiddo. Kids are smart, dude. So I am very much the same, Ryan. It was my kids playing Minecraft all the time. You one day get the, Dad, you should play Minecraft with us. And then you kind of go like, yeah, I'll be a good dad. I'll play some Minecraft.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And then you start playing and you're like, okay, like, you know, especially when they're way younger and it's like, guys, you don't even know how to build a wall. Like, come on, man. Like, four sides, you know, that kind of thing. It's all creative mode because the creepers scare them and blow up their house and then they cry.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
and they get upset and stuff like that so you know i have i would probably say a dozen or two hours into minecraft overall a lot of that time has been spilled spent spilt uh with tears spending creative mode just building houses and fantastical buildings and stuff like that we've made roller coasters we've made replicas of you know whatever right
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And then it's like, okay, well, can we finally play survival? Let's play the real game. And then I just got left in the dust at that point because they knew what they were doing. They're making potions and all kinds of modifiers and redstone machines and stuff like that. And I'm like, I can make a door, guys. I'll put a door on the house if you want.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
So that's to say that we do have some history, but our experience with it is probably much different than Ace's. So Ace...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
You probably played Minecraft voluntarily?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Maybe we just made you think that, Ace.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
We were supposed to be on the same team, Ryan. Oh, man. All right. And joining us, the man who built an exact replica of the famed city of Gondor while Ryan and I were trying to figure out how to craft a torch.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And I think that's probably common for a lot of people like, you know, Ryan and I begrudgingly kind of played it, experienced the game, you know, that kind of thing. But, you know, you and millions, I mean, let's be honest, probably three. Minecraft has sold 300 million copies.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Um, you know, there, there is talk about Tetris being one of them. I actually looked this up because I mentioned a few episodes back that it was like, nobody can ever tell if it's Tetris or Minecraft. It is Minecraft. Confusion comes when people talk about the Tetris franchise as a whole, because there's like 400 different Tetrises.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And when you put them all together, you can say, well, this has sold more copies, but Which game is the best-selling game of all time? Minecraft is far and away the winner in that case. And I think what you brought up, Ace, is kind of the key. Every parent in the world is fine with their kid playing Minecraft, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
It really is. And I will say as a parent, the ability for your kids to be creative and learn how to build things and, and like construct things and say, no, you have to have this first before you can have this. Like, I'm kind of proud of myself that I now know that you need wood planks before you can make sticks, guys.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And so that's kind of that thing that I think as parents we like that our kids are learning. We feel like this is not a brain rot game. This is actually something where they're probably going to learn some skills and how to interact and how to plan and stuff like that. So I don't know what the magic of Minecraft is other than that maybe it just looks simple.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And so parents kind of go, yeah, you can play that. I've heard of Minecraft before and there's no harm in it. It's not like Roblox where parents go like, no, you're not playing Roblox. You're not playing that game, man. So we kind of have to tip our hats to the fact that Minecraft is a simple game on the outside.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
But as Ryan and I found out very quickly, a lot more complex than we initially thought. So that's kind of our history with it. So let's talk about the kind of idea of us going into this game. Ace, you were super excited. Again, you're kind of the one that pushed us to play this. Ryan and I begrudgingly said, okay. He pushes, no, no, stop, stop.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
So, Ryan, what was, I mean... Going into this and saying, fine, okay, Ace, and I remember both of us loading it up and going, I can't believe we're playing Minecraft, dude. Are we really going to do this?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
So, Ace is not wrong. So, Ryan, what was your initial thoughts going into the, we're going to play Minecraft for the podcast? I was...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
Okay. Okay. I mean, to be fair, we have played Minecraft before with our children. Yes. Ace has played with other adults. Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
I'm just going to come out. We know that. No. Oh, we know that. The most excited was definitely you. I was the least excited out of all of us. You know, I am one of those gamers where I like to be pleasantly surprised by a game. And I am willing to try a lot of different games. But I have played Minecraft.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
And as everybody who has been listening to this show knows, once I play a game for a little while, no matter if I love it or hate it, if I stop playing a game, it is very, very difficult for me to go back to it. Mm-hmm. I'm looking at my desktop right now. I still have Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 installed, and I still have Avowed installed.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Minecraft Episode: Yes, Really - Gaming Podcast
One of these games I know I will never touch for the rest of my life. One of these games I keep going, man, I really should get back into that game, dude. That game is amazing. And so... I'll just never do it. You never even beat Baldur's Gate 3, right? I never beat Baldur's Gate 3.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
This game sucks. I don't want to play it anymore.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, this is the best part.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
It's a bad video game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
Your opinion's wrong, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
I don't know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
Thus proving that they are the more delicious cookie.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
You can't argue with science, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
It's Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Half-Life 3 Teased, Gaming Pet Peeves and Path of Exile 2 Thoughts - Gaming Podcast
Mega hype.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
No, dude, you can kind of pull it off.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Listeners, if you have never done the visual part of this show, if you've never watched this on video, this is the one to do it. Oh my gosh. That is the best thing I've ever seen, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Like Patrick Detmark. Wow, him and I usually have spot-on...
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
But it is a lot of cut scenes, but yeah, I think that they perfectly tempoed the gameplay mechanics within those cutscenes so it never feels, like, gratuitous to me. And as far as cutscenes goes, they are world class, in my opinion. Like, without giving too much away, this game almost had me in tears in the first 10 to 20 minutes of playing it. And I don't even know these characters.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
It does such an excellent job of establishing emotional weight behind these characters in this world and how desperate it is. And there's no caricatures either. It's not like these silly archetypes of Frenchie Guy A and Big Tank Guy B. I mean, every single character, every single NPC has depth to them where you can...
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
visualize that there's a backstory behind this and that it was carefully thought out. Even the term gommage, the term gommage in French is a French technique for removing dead skin cells and debris. Like, even though the carefulness that they, like... titled these things. It's just so good. So good. The primary antagonist, as you presented it, is this paintress.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
And you know very, very little about her. And I never got the feeling other than some like ambiguousness that this was like an evil thing, you know, like there's like this somberness behind everything where, where it enhances. It's just a fact of life for these people. Yeah, exactly. It's like a force in nature. Ah, mash. I I'm like, I'm, I'm absolutely. Absolutely loving it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I wish I could shake the hand of every 30 person on that 30-man team and give them a baguette.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I just say I am boosting this in France so hard. Oh, my gosh. I'm giving everyone your personal address. I'm doing the whole rest of the episode this way, too. I just hope you know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
like let's just talk about it let's talk about you're dumped into this world john what you know what's the first thing you do well the first thing that i did like i the game immediately hooked me and so i immediately started exploring every nook and cranny like there ain't no way in the heck this would be a this is a 100 hour game for me like easy there's a point at which um
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
If there was ever a time to tune into the video, this is the one. This is the one. Oh my gosh. That is great. Also vaguely racist. I don't know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
The game does a really good job of opening itself up in digestible bits. So you start out and it's very linear and it's very clear kind of where you need to go. And there's like little avenues that you can explore. But once you progress to that point and it gives you enough time to get used to a specific gameplay mechanic, it opens up a little bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
And then you get another character and it opens up a little bit. And you meet somebody who gives you a new ability and it opens up a little bit. Then there is this part where, which again, I don't want to give it away too much, but there's two instances that I've experienced so far where you get a scope of how big the explorable area of this world actually is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
And I was like, I am going to be playing this game forever. Like, there is so much to do, and I want to experience all of it. Unexpected stuff, too. I mean, Josh, did you get to the vertical platforming challenge? Yep, I did. Never in a million years was I expecting that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
no no i will never beat this i will never beat this little mini game dude uh-uh not doing it yeah i i plan to 100 this game oh man yeah i'm honestly having a hard time with it because there's so many good games like uh midnight walk is coming out man yeah that looks amazing that's like right up my alley uh but i i just can't imagine a scenario where i'm gonna want to put this game down i'm absolutely obsessed with it yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Very, very first, very first attack on your whole party.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
So, but for me, like I've been, I've been taking my time with it. Like I've been grinding through enemies to level up a little bit, just so I've got like an edge and stuff. And like grinding is something I hate doing in games usually, but the, the, The build slash counter system is so engaging for me that I'm like, I love every encounter.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
But, you know, running into some of these, like, little nooks and crannies, this optional content, when I get absolutely housed by an enemy or group of enemies, I love it, honestly, because it gives me an idea of, like, the progression that lays ahead of me. It's a glimpse. Like, there's still so much more to grow in this game. I mean...
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
It's great. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
First of all, full stop, this is, in my opinion, the best turn-based combat system that exists. But I would agree. It doesn't reinvent the wheel, much like Halo Combat Evolved didn't reinvent the wheel when it came out. It refined a... You know, it evolved combat. It refined a premise or a idea that already existed, and it just made it the best it could possibly be. And I think that...
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
this is an example of that um i uh i think that an example i always go to food with this kind of thing i love bacon and blue cheese cheeseburgers like bacon black and blue burgers i absolutely love them but they're not for everybody you know there's a lot of people out there who don't like uh big sort of pub-style burgers, there's a heck of a lot of people out there that don't like blue cheese.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
But if you like... Le fromage.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
But for people out there who like a black and blue burger, there is a really good one out there. If you happen to like turn-based combat... specifically that jrpg style fantasy final fantasy 10 12 ish well 12 actually was kind of at something but final fantasy 10 ish sort of combat style this is the best it has ever been yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
And then it's like all slow motion for a second. Ah, it's so cool.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Those are the Souls players, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Oh, man, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
And all of them are cool, too. They're all cool, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Dude, in Final Fantasy 10 and 12, which those are the... Two games that I keep coming back to in comparison because they're some of my favorite JRPGs. My favorite JRPGs.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
uh but i definitely had my party you know like my party was like set for most of the game unless like you had to complete it with somebody else for some story-based element like i want to play every single one it's it's a shame you know i'm at the point of the game i'm at right now i have five available characters but you can only have three in your party and i'm like bummed about i struggle with that i legitimately struggle because and then i try to swap them out but then some combos aren't as effective and then i wind up going back to these other characters
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
okay let's say the weird thing is that that is not very inaccurate from what many french men dress like from my observation in paris like not non-ironically too oh man
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Do you have a favorite? Who's your main? My main is a loon.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
CL, I think I'm pronouncing that right. But you get to a point where you can actually use her like Luna and Mael kind of split between the two. That was another one. The synergies between the characters is insane. I love it. The synergetic builds that you can have from character to character is absolutely insane. And even every character has their own sort of like... combat buffing mechanic.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
And they're all unique and they all work together.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Did you do the race? Yes. The beach race? Yep. So I don't think it lets you use her on that. because I think she might actually have a speed advantage.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Come on.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Halo is close. Halo is close, and I really like Nier Automata, the soundtrack for that game. But it is it is amongst the very best.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, this is the only game. So in lots of RPGs, there's an element to them where you, like, can go around the world and from, like, the vendors or whatever you want to call them, depending on the game is, where you buy, like, a track. You buy, like, one of the soundtracks or whatever. And, like, I never do that. No, I don't either. I know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I just... Whatever the game is playing at that given point is fine. This is the only game where I've, like, gone out of my way to get those, because I know when you go back to camp, which is sort of, like, the area where you enhance your character weapons and stuff, where you can play them, and I'm like, I love all of these. Like, I...
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I remember the first day I played it, which I played it for like eight solid hours the first day. When Sarah and I, my wife and I were getting ready for dinner, like I turned the game off and I put the soundtrack on my Spotify because I like couldn't get enough of it. It's so good. I imagine it's like great study music. for those smart enough to stay. It's beautiful.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I know Greg put together a pretty killer Doom clip recently. I don't know where that song came from.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
i i think in the cut scenes and in the slower scenes it can look really good there are a lot of hairstyles that are available for each and every character and they are all over the range i mean it's that every every sort of esoteric haircut you can think of but i i agree there are certain scenes when the characters are moving around a bit where i'm like like you played a spaghetti hanging out their head or something yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I'll start with the stuff that doesn't work. There's one thing that's nitpicky and we already touched on it. The hair animation is a little funky. It's a little dirty. I don't really know what the appropriate word is, but it's not quite right. I will say I've been impressed with the
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
level of emotion they've been able to get out of the facial animations I think when there's a lot of games that when they try to capture realism they sort of fall into that uncanny valley and it's like puts me off but this game is excellent at it the hair animation could probably use a patch or something Um, and then there are certain things.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
So we touched on it in the episode a couple of times, but there are like certain platforming elements and the, they are really fun. Honestly, like I like the fact that they're in there and it breaks up the game. Like I never would have expected this in a game like this, but at the same time, it's not like the most crisp, um,
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
you know balanced platforming you know these they're not designed to do this uh so it it's not it's not perfect that being said just about everything in this game works for me like i don't want to i'm hesitant to even score this game at this point um because i i
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
We'll just say that if the rest of this game goes the way that the beginning, you know, 20 plus hours that I put into this goes, my top 10 list will absolutely be shuffling.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Without a doubt. Ryan's even nodding on this one. This might be a game of all time for me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I, I, I, Ryan, I don't remember if it was you or Paul who sort of famously didn't like to give out 10. That's Ryan. He's never given a 10.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And I, I agree with that philosophy. Like if you give something a 10, 10 is perfect basically. And, and so like, what if something is, you know, what if, what if Claire Obscura part two comes out and they have a, uh, a better hair quest, a quest tracking. Oh man. You know, it's better.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
but functionally for me this is a 10 out of 10 i i mean like it it would be a 9.99 blah blah blah blah blah to the nth power but uh it is it is about as perfect a game as i've ever played yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
You can play it. You don't even need an Xbox. You can play it on your cloud TV. It's unbelievable.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
My hype meter was about as high as it's ever been for a game in recent memory. There is a particular chord that it was striking with me. Peak turn-based combat for me was sort of in the era of Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy XII. I really loved XII. XII is an underrated game. And this sort of checked a lot of the same boxes. It was like this dynamic turn-based RPG.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
But what really kind of caught me from the trailers was...
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
a lot of rpgs and a lot of games in general you have to worry about whether the acting and the story component is going to be up to par and there's like especially in the final fantasy series there's a lot of really weird like anime tropes that you know it's it's over exposition and the plot lines are really diluted and this really seems to be laser focused on the storytelling component
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
with what looked like a really creative turn-based combat system. So my hype level was about as high as I can remember for a game in a very, very long time. Maybe ever.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
I would love to take a stab at this, if you don't mind me asking. And it kind of bounces right off what we were just talking about with like hype meter. And this is a little story, so I'm going to keep it as brief as possible. Sarah and I last year, late last year, went to New York for our first time. Mainly, most of our vacations that we take are like centered around food.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
It's like we're going to New York because we wanted to get that New York cheesecake. We wanted to get the new york pizza which by the way disappointing and we wanted to visit this famous deli called cat's deli oh yeah yes oh that's his deli which is uh it is a basically just a big giant pastrami sandwich get that $35 pastrami yeah like three pounds of it with the lion out the door and stuff
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
So I've been honestly salivating over this sandwich for, I don't know, 10 years or something, the first time I saw it on YouTube. And Sarah and I were getting closer. We were disappointed after disappointed after. There's good food, but it just doesn't live up to the hype, you know? I mean, like you have this picture of what it is in your head,
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
And then you get there and you go, oh, it's just food. You know, this is just another meal. So by the time we got to Katz's Deli, I was like, gosh, man, you know, I've literally been thinking about this sandwich for like 10 years. How could it possibly how could it possibly match what I've got in my head? And I took that first bite and I almost cried because it was so good. It's so good.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Expedition 33 has surpassed my expectations in every single quantifiable way. I am obsessed. I'm actually pissed to be talking to you guys right now. Because I want to be playing the game. My wife and I were just celebrating our ninth wedding anniversary. And the whole time I was sitting there thinking about that I'd rather be playing Expedition 33. And I'm like, how can I get access to it?
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Where'd he go? Uh-oh. Ryan has stood up. He has left. If he comes back with no clothes on, we're going to have to start charging for this on OnlyFans.
Video Gamers Podcast
Final French-asy? Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – Deep Dive | Gaming Podcast
Just like scratching my face like a crackhead, like trying to figure out how to get like a little fix. I love it. Love it, love it, love it, love it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. It's very common for a game's artwork to capture our attention quickly, but what about the animation side of things? The people that take a game from concept art to interactive experience. Is animation as time-consuming as we think? What sets good animation apart from bad animation?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
For those that aren't aware, you did actually draw our kind of mascots that we have for this podcast now, which was really awesome to see kind of go from just a concept of, hey, let's have three little guys that kind of represent us, To your just kind of drawing of them in a, you know, just without any color or anything and say, hey, you know, how does this look?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
It's a neat mix. It's interesting. Again, I kind of talk about gamers and we don't really have a lot of idea. We just play the games that are in front of us and we can kind of go, oh, this is pretty. But yeah, that kind of getting that look behind the scenes a little bit where it was like, here's a 2D rendering.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
And then he rotated it around and it was like there were 12 different layers in this 2D rendering. And it was like...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
this is how they do it yeah and it's like it's still 2d but it's it's just something almost completely different it's like its own thing which is just it's so interesting to see yeah absolutely so we're gonna get into i want to talk about the animation side a little bit here in just a second we're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be right back All right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
We are back chatting with Psycho Son, man. Oh, this is awesome. I love these glimpses into the talent that is, you know, that just exists out there and how that relates to gaming and just the skills, man, that people have that go into these things.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, absolutely. And this is why we've been trying to talk to various people that work in gaming and try to get a glimpse at what is this like behind the scenes, what goes into these games that we get to play and experience and things like that. So let's talk about animation, because again, I think this is a really big blind spot for a lot of people. It's one of those things where, you know,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
We talked about Prince of Persia. Like that was a game that absolutely you could tell that the animation in that game was just cutting edge for its time, that kind of thing. But do, and again, this, you know, we're kind of dumb here. We like to ask the questions that, you know, gamers brains come up with, but I, at least in my brain, like to me, art and animation kind of go hand in hand.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Like they are, I don't want to say one in the same, but like, if you are an animator, are you also an artist or are they sometimes exclusive where it's like an artist might like create something and say, Hey, here's this character, this drawing and, And then an animator who may not have an artistic bone in his body can take that and say, oh, okay, cool. Let me turn this into something that moves.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
So are they separate? Are they together a lot of times?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
And we were all kind of blown away. And then to see the progress of you coloring them and designing them and kind of arranging them and all that has been awesome. So I know a lot of our listeners are already familiar with some work that you have done and the talent that you have in that regard.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
A month for 10 seconds? Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Um, but for people that don't know, you have also done a good bit of animation work in gaming and not only in gaming, but a Katy Perry video that we will talk about a little bit later as well. Um, and so we are really excited to have you join us and really kind of give us some insight into art and animation and how that ties into gaming and just the world as, as a whole as well. So, uh,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
It's funny because I think this is maybe one of those times when we're actually right in our thinking. Both my kids love digital art. They draw on Procreate on their iPads. And I'm pretty proud. They're pretty good, man. So proud dad moment there too. But one of my daughters kind of started to get into animating. And I think it's the program Blender, if I remember right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
It's on Steam and it's free and you can play around with that. And I remember her... she really started to try to dive into some animating stuff. It took her, I feel like, six hours to make a T-Rex just roar. And that was it. And it was really neat, but I was just like, this took six hours? Oh my goodness, does it really take this long? But apparently it really does.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
It's the magic of it. It's the magic of it. I think it is. I mean, I think that's why we see something. You mentioned kind of the sketch drawing, right? Where it's simple and it's, but I almost think like our brains kind of imagine what that could be, you know, as far as like, we kind of fill in the blanks in a sense. And my brain might fill it in a different way than your brain does.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
And I think that's sometimes why the simplicity of can be such a good thing. I would love to ask about this because you, you mentioned, I don't know that you use the terms good and bad, but you mentioned like a simple animation with just like a mouth moving versus like a whole character. And so one of these things that we get are the, I'm just going to call it good animation versus bad animation.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
And I've seen, you know, you've done some anime characters on your, your, your Instagram and things like that. And so, you know, this is something where I think when we kind of switch from gaming to anime, that a lot of people do actually say the animation in this is so good. Like Demon Slayer, I'm a fan of Demon Slayer. I like it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
And one of those reasons is my daughter, who's a huge anime fan and I watch it with her, has even said, dad, the animation in Demon Slayer is so good. Like you're going to love it. And then we've watched some other anime and it's like, okay, well the animation in this one isn't so good. Yeah. Not throwing any shade, but you know, you can tell the difference in the quality. So,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
when we think about good animation and bad animation, so to speak, is it like, what is the qualify? Is it just like the smoothness of the motion? Not so much. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Is it like a camera angle that maybe they, they did an animation in a unique perspective or something like that. But what is, what's that difference?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
It's neat because it's like, I think as gamers, you know, and I kind of touched on that where it's like we see, you know, a new game come out and we go, oh, man, the art style in this game is beautiful. Like we just talked to the some of the developers for a game called Tales of Iron 2. It's an indie game. Really, really neat, unique kind of art style there.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
And it's one of those things where everybody goes like, oh, man, the art in this game is awesome. But as gamers, we don't ever talk about animation. Without animation, we don't have video games. But it's one of those things where I think it's kind of a blind spot for us. So that's one reason we're really excited to have you on the show and kind of just get a look into some of that stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
So since we're talking about the Katy Perry video, because I'm very curious about this, and I think a lot of our listeners would be as well. When you get hired to do that, so to speak, and somebody famous says, hey, I want you to animate one of my music videos. Number one, I have to assume that's like, oh, this is super cool moment. Yeah. Oh yeah. Are you number one? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
And then it like, how does that work? I mean, do, do they have like, are you going back and forth and saying, here's my idea? What do you think? Is there feedback? Because like, I know my wife is an artist and I know sometimes criticism as an artist is very hard to take for people because it's like, this is how I express myself. And when somebody criticizes my work, Yeah, absolutely.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
You know, that can be tough.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Because I think it's something that we don't necessarily put enough emphasis on. And we're dying to know a little bit more about it. Yeah. And so that's one of those things that we have been doing. We've been talking to different people in the industry. We've chatted with some voice actors. We've chatted with some game developers, some designers.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Now we're talking with you, obviously, to kind of get a look at that side of things, which is really exciting for us. But we always like to kind of start off because we are a gaming podcast. And we like to just say, hey, let's chat games for a little bit so people can kind of get to know you a little bit more as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
I I can't help but think because this is something you touched on and it's really kind of open in my eyes a little bit to something. And I just think this is fascinating. But when we were talking about pixel art versus like very realistic graphics and stuff, you kind of touched on the same thing that you can only go so far in realism before it just looks real. Exactly.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
I mean, I mean, motion capture is kind of the same way, right? Like, yes, you can get somebody that looks like a human that is running or a horse in the way that they gallop and you can put that in a video game and cool. Now you have a very realistic horse that is running. but there's only so much like realism is going to cap out at it. It's real. It's perfect.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
And I love, yeah, I love that you kind of brought this up where, you know, we can go that direction, but it's capped. But when you aren't going for realism and you are going for artistic and you are going for these different animation styles and flares and things like that, this is where you get to have these really unique moments.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
expressions in a game or art styles that stand out to people or even the way things move in a game to say hey this is you know yes it's not realistic but look what we can do with it you know and i i don't think that's something that a lot of people think about and i just find it fascinating to see yes we can push the boundaries but we're gonna pull back at some point too
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Bell-bottoms and big jeans are back again, right? So, Saika-san, let's talk about your artwork for a second, because it is spectacular, man. We're going to include a link to your Instagram page in this episode description, but I mean... I don't say this lightly, but it's really good, man. Obviously, you've made this your career. You've made this your passion.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
You're here on our show talking about it. But I love the style that you have. I love just the things that you create. But one of these things that I struggle with is the... Do you... trying to get into the mind of an artist, so to speak. Do you see things in your brain and then you're able to just kind of put them on paper?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
And so we always reach out and we, you know, we always say, Hey, what are like, what are some of your favorite games that you've played, you know, in the past or, you know, some, some gaming memories and stuff like that. And so you mentioned a love of some old school games and you mentioned some of these like Street Fighter.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
My wife, for instance, she's a good artist, but she has to have a reference, right? She's not creative. She can't just come up with something on her own. But if you show her something, she can absolutely take that and then kind of make it her own and change it up and go, cool, this gave me a good reference point.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
So how does that work for you? Like, how do you create something from nothing as an artist?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
I know exactly what this is and it's fascinating. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
I love it, man. That's just a neat glimpse into people. And this aphantasia thing I thought was fascinating when people started figuring it out. And somebody asked, close your eyes and imagine an apple. And it was like, cool, I totally see this red apple. I can spin it around in my head and all that. And then a very good friend of ours was like, what do you mean you see an apple? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
And I was like, close your eyes and see. And he was like, no, I get like the idea of an apple, but I can't actually picture the apple. And we were like, what are you talking about, man? And then come to find out there's a lot of people like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
We just call it anime now.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Yes, I was a huge fan of Street Fighter II. I've told the story many, many a day of spending way too much time in the arcades and pumping quarters into those things and stuff like that. You also mentioned Bubble Bobble, Prince of Persia, and Monkey Island. I mean, these are some all-timer games.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Dude, my brain is totally... I'm already thinking of these epic fights that I would make people have. Oh my goodness, man. I can think of some songs where it's like, dude, this to a fight scene would be incredible. I know, right? Oh, man. So listen, we're starting to run out of time here, but we did promise this topic early on. And honestly, I think it's a fantastic topic.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
I know that there are a lot of strong opinions on the use of AI art and kind of the emergence of AI and how that affects artists specifically. I mean...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
I think it ties into art primarily in the sense that people that have these very strong opinions of it, I think it's tied to art because people that say, hey, AI use of art is very wrong because it is taking samples of people's artwork and it is plagiarizing those. It is stealing that art and then it's kind of compiling it together.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
I think people that are for it are just going, it's a really easy way for me to get something that I wouldn't pay somebody for to commission or something like that, because it's a simple use of something. So, you know, being that this is a very intimate topic for you as an artist and an animator, what are your thoughts on the use of like AI art?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Well, today we're going to find out as we dive into the world of art and animation in gaming. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, a lot of you see him in 2D, but if he turns sideways, believe me, the 3D side of his face comes out. Ew. Ew. That's right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
I think we can absolutely tell already, you know, like when something is made with AI. Even like, you know, we're starting to see these AI videos now. And it's like, dude, these are getting more and more lifelike. And it's kind of scary in a way.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
But at the same time, you know, I think we're very much able to go, oh, this was totally made with AI. And, you know, maybe it gets to a point where we can't tell. That's the scary part to me. Yeah. but I do think that there's this, I call it sterile, right? Like there's this sterile feel to AI art or video or something like that, where I think we can just inherently feel that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
And we know that that like creativity or like passion is just missing, you know? And I think people can sense that a lot. Um,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, exactly. Soulless is a really great term. And I think we pick up on that easily, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
So this is a good question. And I know we're almost running out of time here. So do you think like with the use of AI, you know, I know that there's a big backlash, especially with artists like my family, my kids and my wife refuse to even look at it like they're because they are artists and they are like, dude, I don't want to look at this. I don't think people should be using it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Because it's taking away from our talent. This is a talent that we have and they're very, very against it. But at the same time, I think that there's also this, it's not going away. Humans are going to keep using this. We're going to keep refining it. So do you think
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Is there a world where, especially for artists and animators, that AI can become a tool, like another brush, so to speak, where it's like, hey, we can accept this, we can figure out ways to use this to help us? Or do you think that's just crossing that line and it's like, no, this needs to stay out of art completely? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So, I mean, this is fascinating stuff, man. And I really appreciate like the look. I mean, this is something that I know, like even in our own gaming community, we've had a lot of discussion on the use of AI art and stuff like that. And I know it's a topic that
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
we don't really get insight into, you know, from people like yourself that do this for a living and have done this and are obviously super, super talented with it as well. We are almost out of time. So we're going to start wrapping things up. But one of the things that we always love to ask is, you know, is there a project? Is there a cause?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Is there something that you are working on or that you are passionate about that you want to share with people that we could, you know, help that with?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So is the Kickstarter still functional? Like, could we include a link to the Kickstarter?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
This is awesome. All right. Well, we have to check out this a little bit more. And so if you decide to bring this project back into the forefront for you, absolutely let us know because we would love to help shout that out and kind of get that in front of people as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Thanks a lot. Yeah, man, this has been awesome, man. I wish we could just keep going, but you know, we got to wrap things up at some point and we want to be respectful of your time as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Psycho-san, I mean, we cannot thank you enough for just taking time out of your day to hop on with us, to give us a glimpse into the world of animation art, you know, what the mind of a fantastic artist is like, and to just give us that peek behind the curtain. So, I mean, thank you so much for taking time to, to just kind of hang out with us, man. Yeah, yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
So we're going to leave a couple links in the episode description to absolutely kind of let people see how amazing your talent is. Sweet. Awesome. Well, Psychosan, thank you so much once again. Honestly, man, this has been fantastic. That's going to do it for this episode. Thank you, everybody, for tuning in and learning a little bit more about the gaming industry and art and animation.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
We hope you enjoyed this. That's going to do it for this episode. Until next time, happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
It really does. It's funny because I remember begging my parents for a Sound Blaster card because way back in the day, you didn't have music anymore. In games, you only had your little PC speaker, and it could only make little bleeps and bloops, and that was it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
And I remember the Sierra games started coming out, and they had music in them, but you couldn't play the music unless you had an actual sound card for that. People don't know how far we've come, man. Not to sound like the old man, but it's like we have come a very long way.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
came to be and uh and we were there so that's fantastic we're right in it baby heck yeah it's true i know i love it i i gotta say i love that prince of persia is one of the games that you mentioned because i remember prince of persia coming out right and thinking the animation in that game was second to none nobody had done like this leaping and grabbing a ledge and then climbing up on the ledge like that was unheard of so that was the thing with prince of persia yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
it wasn't necessarily the game. It was like, look how this guy is moving.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
And then I was like, I'm going to sound really stupid. That's not the right. I haven't used that word.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
It was really something groundbreaking at the time. So I love that you brought that up as well. So so and then we get into the Nintendo and the emergence of some of these 3D games. Famously, you mentioned Tomb Raider. I think we all remember Tomb Raider coming out and just blowing our minds because now we have 3D models and it's like this. Yeah. We're living in the future. I know.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
I can do that because as a fellow big-nosed person, man, you know... Oh, look at... Yes, we're on.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So do you, you know, we're talking about these kind of 2D games versus when we started to get into the 3D world. And, you know, we're kind of seeing almost this resurgence of like the 8-bit and 16-bit pixel art kind of thing that we see, especially from a lot of indie games. I am a self-professed graphics snob. Like I love just cutting edge technology graphics. I know.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
oh, this looks so good, that kind of thing. But I am also softening, I mean, I do love art. So a game that has a really neat art style really draws my attention too. Do you have a preference? Do you like pixel art? Do you think this 8-bit, 16-bit thing is interesting?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
And joining us, the man with more talent in his little finger than Ryan and I combined is Psychosan. Hey, nice to be here. Great to see you guys. Man, it is awesome. It is awesome to have you, Psychosan. Thank you so much for joining us, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
So I think we've we've done some really I say we not me, but artists have done some really neat things with pixel art lately, too, where, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with a game called Dave the Diver, but a very, very popular game that came out a year or two ago. And it's all pixel art. But they've utilized like pixel art with.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
I don't even know how to describe it with like effects and backgrounds to it and stuff like that to where it's gotten like, it's actually gotten really beautiful.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
Like I love what you're saying about the simplicity of it, but I feel like with people kind of going back to using pixel art and then enhancing it, they've kind of done some really, really neat things with it at the same time to where even somebody like me, where normally I go like, yeah, it's not my thing. Like I can look at that and go like, OK, this looks really neat, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
They're doing some really cool stuff with this now, too. Absolutely.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Art of Gaming and the Threat of AI - Gaming Podcast
This is great. So Saiko-san, I'm just gonna start off with the fact that you have already made an impression on this podcast with some of your art. So the rest of this episode is gonna be very easy.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
I object. There was bias and persuasion going on. It's just a broader category. I mean, I say I object, but man, like sweets are so narrow and they're delicious. But when you say salty, I feel like you just have this massive pool that you don't get with sweet food. At the same time.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I just I don't know, man. My brain is just sugar. It just wants sugar.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Well, we're one for one, Ryan. We're one for one. And so now this next one is tough. So, okay. Burgers or tacos?
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Wait, there's a lot of variety of burgers, too. You can put a lot of stuff on a burger.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
All right, everybody, we want to welcome the AZ Food Guy to the show. He is a local here in Phoenix with us who has a passion for food that might be rivaled by our love of arguing about food. AZ Food Guy, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us. How are you doing today?
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. As long as you pick my side, that's all that really matters. Okay. So, you know, obviously we are a gaming podcast. So before we get into learning a little bit more about, you know, some of the food in the Valley and settling some of these debates, you know, we just wanted to kind of take a second to get to know you a little bit better. And what better way than to get to know somebody better?
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
There's all kinds of... You can have elk burgers. This is true.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
a piece of beef or you know i had a wagyu burger i think that was pretty good too but i think i'll go with tacos just for the variety all right i'm gonna i'm also gonna recommend a burger place for you to try that is some of the best burgers i've ever had after the show so here we go josh brings that burger place up every time i'll save it we'll save it and then we'll come back we can come back a little later yeah i would like i would like a follow-up on this and be like now which one burgers or tacos it'd be like burgers i didn't know i didn't know
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
All right. One more in the debate category here, and then we'll move on to some quickfire ones here. Chewy cookies or crunchy cookies? The longstanding debate here is like the chewy Chips Ahoy versus the crunchy, like original Chips Ahoy.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I was going to say, just cookies in general. So we may have one more cookie question here later on. So, all right, well, there you go. That settles all the debates that we have had over the years, but we're not done just yet. We like to do this little thing that we call this or that. And so it's just a quick answer. It's just whichever one comes to mind. There's no context.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
There's no explanation. It's just a, you know, it's a this or that. Which one do you pick? So let's start off with cake or pie.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Pizza or wings?
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
to kind of talk about what kind of games they like. So you do play games and we chatted a little bit on email before we started this episode and then just kind of prior to recording. So what are some of your actual favorite games?
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
See, I'm not a wing guy, man. I'm not a wing guy. I know a lot of people are, which is why we asked the question.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that one's, yeah. I waffle back and forth on those two sometimes. All right. And cookies or donuts?
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
I'm a donut guy. I love cookies too. Don't get me wrong. There's nothing to them though. Donuts are just like... No, you can make some fancy donuts, man. That's true. You can make some bacon donuts. That's true too. Oh yeah, there you go.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
The maple bacon ones. Okay. And then as we wrap this up, let's ask a couple controversial questions here. These aren't just our debates. These are debates that I think a lot of people in the world have. And so pineapple on pizza, yes or no? Yes. Oh, I agree. No. Yes. No. Yeah. It's sweet and salty, man. It's the sweet and salty. No. Yes. Trust the experts, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
I don't like fish in general. I love sushi. There's something weird about fish when it's raw. I absolutely love it. The second you cook it, it ruins it for me.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
I don't like mushrooms at all. They're one of my least favorite foods. Anchovies and mushrooms. I know, right? I'm just sitting here like, oh, no! Okay, and then this one, I will die on this hill, so I'm curious as to which side that you were on. Oatmeal raisin cookies, gross or great? Great. See, I love this guy. I love him. Arizona food guy for the win. Yes, I love oatmeal cookies, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Oatmeal raisin cookies are so good. I think it's the raisins that get the bad rap in those, but they're like one of my favorite cookies if they're made right. Okay, and then one final question for you. A real one. Does anybody actually enjoy eggplant? I do. You actually like eggplant. This eggplant is delicious. I will eat this all day.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Maybe my mom was just the worst cook in the world for eggplant. We might be discovering something here.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Oh, I, yeah, I don't know. It's like eggplant mushrooms are like the two things at the top of my list. But to be fair, we may have just discovered something and that's like, maybe my mom was just terrible at cooking this stuff, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, we're going to chat after recording just a little bit. Maybe you can give me a recommendation on one, and then we'll trade recommendations too and talk about this ramen and burger place for you also. Well, listen, this has been awesome. AZFoodGuy, thank you so much for being the judge, the final say on a lot of these debates and these food takes and these controversial opinions.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
I think I won, Ryan. I think he picked more of mine than yours.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
I can concede to that one. Yeah. You know, in the broad scale. So AZFoodGuy, thank you so much for coming on the show and just having fun with us and hanging out. Again, we'll put a link to your Instagram in the episode description. But do you want to go ahead and tell people, you know, the best way to follow you and where to find your content at?
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, they did the Reloaded recently. I think that was a year or two ago, but the original one came out a while back. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Amazing content, by the way. I don't say that lightly. It's one of those things where I just wouldn't mention it at all. But your content truly is really incredible. So I mean, make sure you check that out, everybody, because it is very, very good content. It's entertaining, it's enjoyable, and it will make you want some of it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
All right, everybody. Thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Just so fun to talk about food and gaming and just having awesome people on. So again, once again, thank you AZFoodGuy for that. That's it for this episode. Until next time, happy gaming.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Persona games are some of the most beloved games out there. Now, being that the developer is Atlus, have you played or heard of Metaphor Refantasio? Because there's a lot of people out there that are saying that is actually the best game that they've ever made.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. We have heard from a lot of people that they think it's the best game that they've made. I mean, Persona 5 Royale is widely considered one of the best RPGs ever made. I have played it. I can really appreciate what is in that game. It's just not my favorite pacing in a game, I think, but I can absolutely appreciate what they did with that. But
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Maybe just to put it on your radar, Metaphor Refantasio has gotten a ton of hype. It was up for Game of the Year as far as some of those awards. So maybe just check that out in your spare time. So is it safe to say that you're kind of a fan of RPGs?
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Ryan is being forced to play. We do this thing every now and then where you can force a friend to play a game. And so Ryan can say, Hey Josh, you absolutely have to play like the uncharted games. I've never played the uncharted games. And so he can actually say like, you have to play it. And then I have to play it. And then we kind of come back and talk about that.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
And so John, uh, you know, he got to force Ryan into this and Ryan's just been shaking his head ever since. Cause he's like, I'm not going to like it. I'm not going to like it. But he is at least keeping an open mind about it, whereas the rest of the world is super excited for this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, we're excited to have you. This is our first time having a food expert on the show. We like to think we know food, but after checking out some of your content... I'm on the show. I'm on the show. Yeah, Ryan, the reason we brought AC Food Guy onto the show is to finally settle some of the debates that you and I have had over food takes. Fair enough. And your food takes are terrible.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Wow. That sounds pretty cool. Game night. Next game night. I know what I'm doing. I was going to say, Ryan's automatically looking for this now.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
That's awesome. All right. Well, listen, before we get too deep into this, we need to know a little bit more about you and some of your food takes. So let's... Let's pick your brain a little bit here. So you live in Phoenix, so you are local to us. And so this might be us really just fishing for some suggestions here too. But you do try a lot of food in the Valley.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
You have an amazing Instagram, by the way. I literally have shown this to multiple people because we just kind of appreciate content creation and people that are super passionate about it. We know the work that goes into it. And I mean, who doesn't love delicious food at the same time? So we'll include a link to your Instagram in this episode description also.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
But I just I had to give you props there because it's like what you do is very, very well done at the same time. So.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
what's the worst thing like through all of your content and you go to all of these restaurants and you meet all these people and you try all these dishes and stuff, you don't have to name the place, but like, has there been something where you were just like, Oh my goodness, this is terrible. Like, I can't believe I just tried this.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
That's amazing. How do you mess up ramen? I know, right? Even the worst ramen is still like semi-good.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I find that hard to believe that somebody could mess that up. But I mean, apparently it happens too.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
I can tell you the best ramen in the valley. And my daughter is an absolute ramen fanatic. There's a place called Yutaka that is on, I think it's Bell Road and 7th Avenue. It's a little place. It is the best. It's, it's like rated like top 25 in the country for ramen. Um, and their tonkatsu ramen is, Oh, Oh my goodness. It is some of the best I've ever had. Wow.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
You talk, I'll have to look that up. I'll send you after this, I'll send you the, uh, the link. Uh, cause you should absolutely try that. I, again, it's some of the best I've ever had. And it's for, from us, it's like a 15 minute drive. Cause it's, um, yeah, I think it's seventh Avenue and bell. Uh, is where it's located. I'll send you the details after this.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
But it is awesome to have you, man. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to join us. This is going to be a fun little episode here because we are going to lean on your food expertise to settle some of our longstanding arguments that Ryan and I have had about food. And honestly, people in our community, it's one of those things that... Everybody loves talking about it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
So, cause I I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Um, okay. And then do you have a favorite, uh, we'll kind of make this broad, but a favorite food, a dish or a specific meal from a place that you've eaten at here in the Valley?
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, we just went to a neat one that was, again, my daughter loves Japanese, just anything Japanese. And so we found a, what is it, a bun and bao place called Uncle Panda. Oh, I've been there. Oh, have you been there? Yeah, they make like the cutest little, I don't know any, like, again, my daughter's like, Dad, you got to take me here. And we went there and ate it.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
And she just absolutely loved it. They made the cutest little buns, like in the shapes of cute little animals and stuff. And yeah, I was like, all right, this is kind of cool. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Okay. Well, let's get into this a little bit here. Now that we know a little bit more about you and some of your gaming tastes as well. So Ryan and I, like I mentioned, we have very different food takes. I love sweets and he hates sweets. He only likes salty stuff. And so this has caused a lot of debate amongst us.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
And because we've been doing this show for a while, our community kind of gets involved in that as well. And we've had wars over there.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
this i mean they're all friendly but you know we've definitely had people like take sides on things so now that we have a professional here uh we thought it would just be awesome to get your takes on this and to finally have you be the judge and and what you say goes like this will actually end the feuds uh for us at least for a little while yeah So let's tackle a few of these.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
And starting off, perhaps the biggest debate that we have ever had. Years.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
We actually have a food channel in our Discord server where people post photos of things they're making or recipes that they might have and stuff like that. So there is definitely a big overlap between gaming and food. And so we love this kind of crossover that we got going on right now.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
And has split the community. This has split social media because we've posted on social media about this. And I won't tell you who's on what side here. But the question is, waffles or pancakes?
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Pancakes, everybody!
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
The decision's been made, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
[BONUS EPISODE]: BEST Gaming Foods w/AZFOODGUY - Gaming Podcast
Well, this next one might be Ryan's big one here.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Stardew Valley? Braid? Minecraft? Undertale? Some of the most iconic games ever, but they all have one thing in common. They were made by...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Oh, no. I get that. I worked for a big corporation for like 16 years. And it's one of those things where you're absolutely right. And I don't think gamers think about this. When you are solo developing a game, you can just do what you want. You don't
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
You don't have to pause and wait and say, okay, well now I have to send this over to creative and then get creative to sign off on it, you know, and that kind of thing. So it's really neat that you said that because I, I personally as a lifelong gamer have never thought that that could actually be a benefit to how fast you can actually get something done.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
We even talked to a gaming psychologist, which was really cool. We've talked with animators, AAA studios, independent studios and stuff like that. But we have not had the opportunity to talk to a solo developer. And so we are super excited to have you on with us. And if you could, just so our listeners can kind of get to know you a bit more, you've been a solo dev for a little while.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
I was so – prior to you coming on the podcast, I was actually checking out some of your stuff because I was very curious about how a solo developer goes about doing that. And one of the things that I noticed, especially that you post on your social media platforms, is the kind of journey that you have taken with learning all of this stuff. Mm-hmm.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
You talked a little bit about design and art to a degree, learning some of the coding that is involved in that. And I think that to me is one of the most impressive things is seeing somebody saying, listen, I have this goal. I want to be a game developer. I will certainly contract out music. I am not musically inclined at all. So that is something where I'd be like, help me put
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
And I love that because it's like, as gamers, we're very quick to notice bugs and things like that. But I think a lot of times we don't get to see the behind the scenes where something that would appear small can be the most frustrating thing in the world. Why is it this working? So did you, are you just self-taught on everything? Did you go to school for some of this?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Like, how did you get the skills necessary to tackle this?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. All the things you can learn from YouTube now.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
You are currently working on a game and you actually have another game that is out on Steam that actually has a really good rating that I'd love to talk about a little bit. But can you tell us a little bit more about your prior work and what you do?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I love that. I mean, my kids are younger. We homeschooled them. And one of the things that homeschooling teaches you is figure it out. If you don't know the answer to something, figure it out. And it is crazy to me that we live in a world where you can figure out just about anything if you're passionate enough about it. I mean, my dishwasher broke a few months ago.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
And it was like, I just Googled dishwasher not filling up with And before you know it, somebody's giving me a step-by-step video on how to fix the dishwasher, you know? And it's just like, but the fact that somebody can say, hey, I want to get into game development. I need to know how to code. I mean, Unity, right? Like as gamers, we've heard of Unity. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
I would not know the first thing on how to use Unity, but you're looking it up going, hey, you know, there's people out there that can teach me the basics of using Unity, and then you're developing a game with that knowledge, you know? It's really impressive, so...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. That's amazing. So one of the things with being a solo dev or an indie dev that we have seen, cause we talked to a lot of them is, you know, One of the biggest challenges for a developer is just getting name recognition out there. I mean, we have a lot of indie devs that reach out to us that say, hey, can you talk about my game? Or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
And even in the podcast world, we try to get that exposure. If people can find you or learn about you, you kind of have a leg up on things. And you have you're in this really neat place where you have a really neat and established social media presence that I think is number one is a challenge in and of itself. to kind of build up a social media presence.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
With my career and then with this podcast, I have definitely tried to focus on some of that. And then I just go, this doesn't make any sense to me. But you've done it. I mean, you have a very large following on Instagram. You've put out a lot of videos and things like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
So I want to just kind of touch on that for a minute because we do have a lot of indie developers that listen to the show and they've been learning a lot from this. So How, like, you know, was there a moment when you were developing your social media platforms where it took off?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Like, was there a moment where all of a sudden it was just like, oh my goodness, like, you know, everybody is finding out about me. Was it more of a grind over the years kind of thing for you? Like, I'd like to just kind of talk about that a little bit more on how you managed to build that up and what, you know, your kind of idea behind that was. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
I mean, what a really neat way to kind of use that as a test, like you said. If I throw something out there and people go, eh, well, then maybe that's not worth pursuing. But if I throw something out there, even if I'm not necessarily like... I haven't decided to pursue this yet.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
If you get 2 million people that go, yeah, that sounds like a great idea, then you kind of go, wait a minute, maybe I'm onto something here.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Oh, that is awesome. So $10,000 and a custom-built PC?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I was going to say, we've teased Lily's World XD long enough. I really would love to kind of know more about this because, you know, obviously this is the passion that you have right now. You've been working on this world. How long have you been working on it?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I feel like that's the thing with games is it's like, I'm not close to this, but then at the same time, it's like, you're constantly working on it. So, you know, I guess the, I just want to know more, like the floor is yours. What can you tell us, you know, give us the, the 30 or 60 seconds kind of synopsis of Lily's World XD. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
This is awesome. So we're going to get into Lily's World XD here in a little bit because I am very curious about what it is like to kind of, you know, come up with the concept of a game, approach it. The early 2000s was a lot of fun. Like you said, you know, days of MySpace, AIM and all that stuff as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. We always joke in my family that if you're not weird, then you're boring. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
So, you know, and again, I don't I you know, I've watched some of the videos that you've put out about the game and kind of the preview trailer and stuff like that. These I have zero firsthand experience, but it almost reminds me. Are you familiar with a game called Her Story or Immortality? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Oh, that's really neat. See, I've not we have a really good friend of ours that used to be on this podcast that absolutely loved that kind of genre of like the.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
And again, I have no firsthand knowledge, but almost like that, like discovery aspect with like immortality where you're looking through these these clips of games or her story, I think, is very similar in that way, where it is kind of the premise is. the more you dig, the more you kind of put this story together kind of thing, which always sounds really neat.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
And I love when people come up with these like unique angles for that kind of stuff. You know, you mentioned it in the beginning of the episode where, you know, you've really kind of found this like this neat, juxtaposition of like going from cutesy game to psychological horror game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
And I think that absolutely is visible in Lily's World XD with like parts of the game, like you said, are very cutesy. You're looking through this girl's laptop. So of course she's got, you know, a dress up game and you know, everything's You know, these cute colors. And then all of a sudden it's like, wait a minute, this there's then there's this moment of darkness in there.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
So is that you like coming through into your game? Like, is that your personality, you know, kind of being, you know, like on display there with your tastes in gaming?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I'm old. So Emily, is it safe to say that as a game developer that you are a gamer yourself? Do you play a lot of games? Is this just a passion that you have for creating them or do you actually, you know, are you a gamer?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we're old men. And so it's like, you know, I like to shake my hand sometimes at the sky and go like, oh, social media is ruining everybody, you know, but there's there's also a little bit of truth to that. But then at the same time, I'm on it every day, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
I can't stop it. So, okay. So one of the things, I mean, as you were creating Lily's World XD and you have this excitement and you have this passion and you're obviously pouring tons of time and effort into this. Do you have moments – and I guess this kind of touches on prior work on games that you've had and stuff too – where how do you balance the stress or the nervousness of a game? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
With A Taste of the Past, for instance, you release that on Steam. It's got amazing reviews, so kudos to you, number one, because it's hard to get gamers to agree on anything, much less, hey, this game's 97% overwhelmingly positive kind of thing. But You know, how do you deal with that? Like fast forward two years from now, however long before Lily's World XD is about to get released.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Like I can't imagine the nervousness to go like, I've worked on this for three years. What if people hate it kind of thing? So how do you deal with that?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
by a solo developer how does one accomplish such a feat how can one person make a game without the help of an entire studio do they truly have to know how to do art music coding and more well we're about to find out in this episode but first some introductions are in order i am your host josh and joining me he likes solo cups han solo and the anime solo leveling it's it That's right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
You know, Ryan, we're very similar in like we're both a little bit of that perfectionist mentality. And I understand that because it's like if something should work and it's not working, I'm with you. Like my brain will stew on that. We'll go to dinner and like the whole time we're sitting at dinner, I'm like, I'm just thinking like, I wonder if it's this. Could it be this? I better try this.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
That might work. And then you get home and none of it works. And then you're just like, no!
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
crazy at the same time so it's like I've been trying to teach her like sometimes you have to just know when to turn it off but you know especially like you said in game development I mean that is part of what drives you and it says hey I want to make the absolute best game I can make I'm not satisfied with leaving this bug in there you know or not having this work the way that I want it to work so I definitely think that that can serve you it's just like you said it just kind of drives us crazy along the way too so
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
So as an experienced solo developer, you know, you're currently in the middle of working on Lily's World XD. Do you have any advice or like tips for somebody that might be looking into, you know, developing a game themselves? Like where would you recommend somebody start?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Which is also the 1%. Yeah. I'd like that, man. What the heck?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I think that's fantastic advice, to be honest with you. I think I think, like you said, a lot of people want to just shoot for the moon. And it's like you have to learn how to start with the basics first, you know, before you can do that. So.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
There you go. More and more game developers are getting savvy about that. They're just saying it'll be out when it's ready. Honestly, it is one of the things that I am proud of gamers to adopt only recently where it's like, hey, just release the game when it's ready. You know, like I think too many gamers were very caught up on release dates and then they get missed and then they get mad.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
And then that just turns into a mess for everybody at that point. So the silk song strategy.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Well, just you'll get the game when the game is ready for you to have that kind of thing. That's probably a good idea. So, well, Emily, we are running low on time on this episode. This has been really awesome to talk to you.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
A couple more questions before we kind of sign off for this is one of the things that I've always wondered, especially, I mean, you mentioned Concerned Apes, Stardew Valley. I mean, you know, that is obviously the dream for a lot of people, right? But, you know, that's an unrealistic dream for a lot of people, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
I mean, yes, you can say I want to shoot for the moon, but then you're probably just going to fall short. And instead of being proud of the accomplishment, a lot of people view the failure instead, which is not a good thing either. So how do you. like measure the success of a game?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Like, is it, you know, because, you know, it's one of those things where, you know, is it just the popularity of a game? Is it the financial reward from selling a game? Is it simply the review scores? You know, Hey, maybe only 200 people played this game, but they all gave it a 98% rating. So I'm happy with that. Like, how do you measure the success of a game that you, you spent time creating?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Go ahead. I was just going to say, that's awesome. My daughter is the biggest Omori fan that you could imagine. She actually went as one of the characters from Omori to the Phoenix Fan Fusion, which is like Comic-Con. So she cosplayed one of the characters and a bunch of people recognized who she was, which she just absolutely loved. So that is a very popular game for a lot of people.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
I mean, you mentioned inscription. That's kind of like inscription. People love these games where you kind of think you are expecting one thing, and then they take a different turn at that point, too. And I think as gamers, they really appreciate that as well. We kind of like to be caught off guard because there's just...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
There's so much familiarity with a lot of games and especially, you know, in genres where they kind of start to copy each other and things like that. And I think when we get surprised by something, that really stands out to us. It's like that record skip, like, wait, what?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
We're going to leave the link to Lily's World XD on Steam in this episode description for people so that they can go and wishlist that to try to help out. And we'll also leave a link to your Instagram and YouTube in the episode description as well. Emily, this has been awesome. Number one, thank you so much for hopping on with us to just kind of talk about what it is like.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
I mean, we love these glimpses. that we've been getting into the gaming industry. It is fascinating to kind of see what goes on behind the games that we all know and love and we play.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
I mean, we see them presented in a very specific, careful way, but a lot of times gamers don't get to see the stuff behind the scenes, the stress and the anxiety of bug squashing and the ideas that came about with creating these games or
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
you know, the, the idea coming to fruition or, you know, like you said, somebody, you know, realizing that YouTube university is a fantastic place for a lot of people, you know, and things like that. So we love this kind of insight into the gaming world. And we're very thankful for people that are willing to come on the show and talk about it. So thank you.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Number one, for just giving your time on this. We hope your talk goes incredible. You said that's tonight.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
We are going to be cheering for you so much. I know there's got to be some anxiety there of letting people demo this game and going, man, please like it. That kind of thing. So we're definitely in your corner there as well. So listen, thank you so much for joining us. That's going to do it for this episode, everybody. Make sure you wishlist Lily's World XD.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
And then Inscription is unbelievably good. So those are two very good games.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
The link will be in the episode description for people. Once again, Emily, thank you so much for joining us. And that's it for this episode, everybody. We'll see you on the next one. Until next time, happy gaming. See ya!
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Man, all I remember is that she had a wreath of flowers around her head and some coveralls, almost like overalls or something.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Okay, that was it. Yes, Basil rings a bell. And she was so excited. People were like, look, it's Basil. And she was like, yes!
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
That's a game that I really keep meaning to play. I have heard nothing but good things about it. And that's one of those few that has just flown under my radar and I haven't had a chance to dive into yet.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
That's amazing. So I like that you have like these two opposite ends of like psychological horror, which is also my favorite kind of horror. I want something to mess with my head. I want it to kind of freak me out. Sometimes it's the things you can't see that are the scary things versus like you said, like just an obvious jump scare or some kind of creepy looking monster or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
And then it's funny because you mentioned your love of cozy games and stuff. And I was like, these are two very different genres there.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. I think people like that kind of difference. You know, it's like, let me, let me go this direction for a little while. Okay. I'm nice and relaxed. I've played animal crossing and my cozy game and stuff like that. And then it's like, okay, now I need something a little bit different. What can really scare the tar out of me?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
I didn't know where to go on this one, Ryan. I'm going to be honest, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
So, OK, so I want to kind of talk a little bit about what inspired you to kind of become a game developer. So was there a particular game or gaming moment that inspired you to want to get into the actual development of games yourself? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Those are all great things, though. I have not seen solo leveling, but I hear it's really good. Who doesn't love a good solo cup? And Han Solo, man. He's a scoundrel.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
I love that. You mentioned Spiritfarer earlier. And we had one of us play Spiritfarer a while back. And again, it was that kind of relatable. People are going to find things that relate to them. I've heard of the Night in the Woods, right? Yeah. I've heard of that. I actually looked into that at one point because I was kind of like, man, I need something to play.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
And then I didn't wind up picking that one up. But I know that one's very, very highly rated for the story that it tells, which can, I mean, really resonate with people. And, you know, you touched on something, too, where I think you're right. I think a lot of times people hear gamer and they think Call of Duty. They think shooters.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And joining us, she is a solo developer with multiple titles on her resume who has shared the joys and the challenges of developing games on her social media. It's the one and only Emily Sundering.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
They think, oh, you just like, you know, running around like pretend murdering people and stuff like that. And it's like there is so much more to the world of gaming than people realize that. And I love when we get the examples of a story that touches people, because let's be honest, I love a good movie, but no movie will ever come close to the interactivity that gaming does.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
And where you are, you are the character, you are literally experiencing that story firsthand and things like that. So I love the fact that people are pushing the boundaries of storytelling when it comes to gaming.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Um, I love a good action paced chaotic game, but at the same time, I also really love that deep, like, man, this made me think like, you know, this, this like brought a tear to my eye kind of game too.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, no, I love that. And I think we're seeing more and more examples of how people tell stories differently, whether it's through the experience, like inscription, inscription doesn't tell you anything. You're just in a cabin with some creepy guy playing cards, you know, but we see a lot more of that kind of immersive storytelling.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
A game that I mentioned all the time, a game called Outer Wilds does that where you have no idea what's going on, but by the end of the game, you just kind of sit back and you go like, oh my gosh, no. dude. I learned all this stuff just from playing. It wasn't this big exposition dump or a two-hour long cut scene that was kind of telling me everything that I needed to know on that. So I love it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
I can't wait to hear a little bit more about Lily's World XD. But before we get there, we got to kind of go like, who's crazy enough to want to solo develop a game? Yeah. Everybody knows game development is hard enough as it is. We just talked to Bungie, okay? You know, Halo and Destiny. And they were like, making video games is really hard.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
And then they have hundreds of people that are doing that. And you are but one person. So what made you go, you know what? I'm going to learn how to do all of it. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Solo Dev Diary - Gaming Podcast
Well, thank you. We try. We try. We got to set the tone of the podcast. Emily, thank you so much for joining us. We are really excited to chat with you today about what it is like to be the only person making a video game. And kind of what is involved in that. We've been doing a series of talking with people from all over the gaming industry, voice actors.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
So I will say I calmed down a little bit, you know, Paul talked to you off the ledge for sure. We had many a conversation about this. And so that was my initial reaction. And I, and I even said, I don't mean for that to come across as negative, but yeah, This is Nintendo's forte, you know, is they've always tried to innovate something.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
And that's not to say that they're not innovating with the Switch 2, but we just don't know what that innovation is yet. And I really hope... that there is some innovation there. Um, we kind of got a little bit more info as the day progressed and people kind of broke down the video a little bit. So let's Ryan, let's talk about some of the knowns. Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, but that ain't the Switch 2 either, man. People have been waiting for the Switch 2 for eight years now, man. So we are going to be talking about it. We're going to be talking about some of the things that we know. We did get a nice video from Nintendo directly about this. I mean, if you haven't been on social media, you're paying attention. This was the official...
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
About the switch to, and kind of where, you know, some of these things come in. So it is bigger than the switch and bigger is always better, you know, in that regard gamers, you know, dude, you guys pick on me. I have a 48 inch monitor. Um, I love this thing to death. It's awesome. In the gaming world, bigger is better, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
And so it is bigger. It's not a whole, whole lot bigger, but not only is the screen bigger, but so are the Joy-Cons, which I actually thought was a neat little touch.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I mean, this was the... If anybody has ever tried to play the Switch using only one Joy-Con, which, you know, they can be used that way, dude...
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. What's this? A Friday episode? What could be the occasion? The Switch 2 was announced, and we just can't help ourselves. We're going to be breaking down the announcement, the changes we know of, our initial thoughts, some concerns, and some things we hope to see. But before we get into that, some introductions are in order.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, so we got a bigger system, bigger Joy-Cons, which actually I'm more happy about than the system being bigger itself. I normally play my Switch docked. So the size of the system itself doesn't really matter a whole lot to somebody like me. But I also get that there's tons of people that are laying in bed or on the couch playing it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
And so a bigger screen and easier Joy-Cons is definitely a plus right there. Ryan, we'll talk about the Joy-Cons here because there is a lot to talk about in regards to those. But we're going to take a quick break and then we'll come right back. All right, we are back. We are jiving on the Switch 2 right now, breaking down some of the things that we know about it. Okay, so the Joy-Cons.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I hate the Joy-Cons on the Switch, dude.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, the Drift-Cons. The Drift-Cons. I have the Pro controllers because I hate using the Joy-Cons. We have the little extension thing where they'll click into the base of the controller so it actually feels like a normal controller and stuff like that. But I really am not a fan of these teeny little Joy-Cons. They're fine if they're...
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
inserted into this like controller platform thing for me at that point and it's like okay whatever but nintendo's very proud of the joy cons and this is part of the kind of innovation that we saw with the switch to reveal now form factor wise they are a little bit bigger Otherwise, they really haven't done anything crazy here. Yeah. They have taken away the colorfulness of the Joy-Cons.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I kind of am a fan of that. I get the whole red and blue and some of these other colors that they sold for a little while to kind of make it unique and stuff. But, dude... I'm a man. I'm a dad in my 40s. If I'm playing the Switch, I don't want to look, you know, like too silly.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Reveal of the switch to now we don't have a ton of information like that is kind of the key is that Nintendo gave us a look at the switch to and of course people did some digging and they're like oh I know what that port is and that kind of thing and we can kind of extrapolate some stuff like it looks like it's somewhere in the range of probably about 15% bigger than the original switch.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
So having them just be black with a little splash of color, you know, right around the base of the sticks on them is fine with me. In fact, maybe even preferred because black's my favorite color as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I am with you, and something that I don't think a lot of people thought about on this, because I have seen comments that it looks much more like the Steam Deck now, and the Legion Go, or some of these other mobile platforms. If you take away the kiddie nature, that's one of the things, right? A lot of people have always viewed the Nintendo Wii and the Switch as their kid consoles. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
And so I think by just making this simple design choice with just saying, hey, we're going to kind of streamline this. You have your little splash of color. You know, you recognize that pop of color, but they look much more streamlined and kind of sleek. And I think that will inadvertently appeal to a broader base.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
You know, by just kind of simplifying that and saying, look, we're not trying to make it look like this is something that should be in a preschool. This is a gaming console and it's a gaming console that's not geared towards children. It's geared towards everybody.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
So I think there's that weird like kind of subconscious just perk in that regard where somebody can look at it and go, this isn't intended for children like this is this a gaming console.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
So on the topic of the Joy-Cons, we have kind of poked a little fun at this in the past when we did get some information on the Switch 2. But the Joy-Cons now, instead of sliding in and clicking into them, they connect magnetically. There is a port on each side that they did show off.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
But as you go to insert them, they just using magnets, they will click in and be held fairly securely to the sides automatically. We've joked around, it's magnets, dude. Is this really that big of an innovation? Is this really like, it's magic? What is this force that's being exerted on my Joy-Cons right now? Look, dude, if I get it close- If I get really close, it just jumps all of its own.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
It clicks together. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. What is this sorcery? But I get it because it's an easy connect. It's an easy disconnect. They did show off like a button that kind of pushes them away from the console. So when you want to take them off, it's easy and you're not fighting these strong magnets or anything either.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I, then you got to just bow up, you know, you got to just bow up on it and say, I'm better than these magnets. Yeah. Um, and so, you know, we, we got kind of a glimpse of the button layout, you know, Ooh, they're a little bit more ergonomic and they look like they're a little bit better. And it's like, that's all fine. The switch has never been comfortable to me.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Um, but you know, upgrades are upgrades, right? So if this helps people just hold it better and the buttons are slightly more ergonomical, that's a win too. Ryan. There's a mystery. Oh. There's a mystery with one of these Joy-Cons. What is it?
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
But we had some kind of good conversation this morning as well. Like right after the reveal, our Discord server was very interested. Everybody was chatting about it. I made a comment. I made a comment. I'll make it on this show as far as like kind of just an initial gut reaction to things as well. But we really wanted to just, I mean, it's fun, man. We're gamers, dude. We're gamers.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
There's a mysterious button, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
It's a button. It's grayed out. It's blurred out. Nobody could tell what was on it. But there's an extra button, Ryan. And people really love talking about what that button could be. And I'm like... is this where we're at? Like, is this really where we are? It's like, there's an extra button. Look, man, this is a controller. Yeah. Controllers are supposed to have buttons on them.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Like, is this a magical button? I don't know what this button is.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I mean, if this button orders pizza for me, I'm in, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I mean, I don't know about you, but most buttons on controllers simply control a function of something, you know? And so it's like, unless this button does something magical... I'm just going to consider it a button at this point. Yeah. Does it take a screenshot? Like, I mean, I don't know, but boy, the internet lost its mind over this mysterious button.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Now, the coolest thing to me legitimately on the new Joy-Cons are they showed during this video, they showed the Joy-Cons kind of going on their side and then racing along like a flat surface. Yes. a la a mouse. They have, it's confirmed.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
You can put it down on the surface of something and you can move it across the surface and it will know that you're moving it. You're blowing my mind. Through the power of wizardry and sorcery, Ryan.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
It can track it. You can race them, apparently.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I was... No, it's... I mean, this is the thing, right? Like, everybody's so excited, and it's so fun to kind of, like, hypothesize and stuff like that, but... This we're feeling pretty confident that this is an optical sensor, just like you have in your mouse. And that because of this optical sensor, you can now use the joy cons in a mouse fashion.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Now, I don't really understand using it as a mouse necessarily, but there are games that
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
that don't really lend themselves all that well to being played on a controller, a game like civilization, for instance, you know, was, you know, having a mouse and being able to click through menus and click precise locations is infinitely better than sitting there and trying to like pinpoint something on a map and then moving it from here to there and stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
So it's like, there could just be this convenience functionality that, But if I know Nintendo, and this is again, where I'm hoping we get some kind of innovation here, the ability to use the Joy-Cons with motion sensing, with the tracking like you could get with an optical sensor on a mouse does kind of open up a world of possibilities there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
We got a new console coming out. The world has been hyped for the Switch 2. We talked about this on our Hot Takes episode. I said, hey, the Switch 2 is absolutely releasing this year. And I think, and I'm still hopeful, that it's going to release with Super Mario Odyssey 2. We'll see about that. But yeah, man, we're excited. We want to share that excitement. So here we are.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I can't really think of something right now, you know, where it's like, this would be super cool. But the fact that they have that and Nintendo kind of showed that off in this video is, does tell me that there's some other functionality here with these joy cons that maybe people haven't really thought about.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
And it is my hope that Nintendo is going to figure out how to make this freaking cool in the use in some video game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. It's funny because like I said, my initial impression was a little bit of a, almost like a negative, but the more I think about what the possibilities are and it's like, I want to trust Nintendo to do what everybody's expecting them to do. And if they don't, and there's very little innovation at all, I'm going to be pretty disappointed. I'm not going to lie.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Um, a couple other small things. There is a second USB-C port on it. Now there's some people that have hypothesized that you can link Nintendo switches now. So if we wanted to play Pokemon game and I want to trade you, we're trading Pokemon baby. Yeah. Like in that case, like there are possibilities there. Um, could you, could you daisy chain?
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Like a bunch of Switch 2s and then like have like a little mini LAN party or maybe like this really neat multiplayer game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
And I know there's a lot of people that are going like, dude, use Discord and you play over the internet.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I don't want to see people. Yeah. What's this LAN party? Why do you guys make such a big deal? Because when you're in the same room...
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
playing games together it's a different experience man it's just different it's like if you've ever played board games with somebody you know or had a board game night there is something about being in person playing games with your friends you you know there's all these board game emulators and stuff where it's like i can play board games over the internet it's not the same it will never be the same and it's hard to explain to people that have never had a LAN party
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
We hope you enjoy this kind of extra Friday episode. And we're going to get into it. But Ryan... We always love starting off an episode with thank yous, man. Yes. We're thankful for the listeners. We're thankful legitimately for every single person that finds this podcast or sees our logo and says, let me see what these video gamers are about.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
But if the Switch 2 can link all of these Switch 2s together in person, dude... That'd be so cool. Sold. You know, in my opinion there. So, you know, there's a couple other little piddly form factor things. The joysticks have like a deeper thumb cup, so it's a little bit more ergonomic. And maybe your thumb doesn't slip off the top. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All right. So...
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
We've talked about a couple of the things that we kind of hope for, right? I mean, we just got done gushing over LAN parties and sounding like old men here. Is there a feature or an innovation that you can think of
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
That would blow your mind, you know, to say, hey, right now, like I said, I'm still a little concerned that Nintendo is not innovating a whole lot and that this is a... We just wanted to keep it safe and sell 18 gajillion Switch 2s and we're not going to risk it. We don't want another Wii U on our hands, you know, and that disappoints me, even though I can understand that from a business aspect.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
But... Is there a catch? Is there a thing that if they said, hey, this is something we didn't announce yet, that would be like, dude, that would be so amazing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I yeah, this is one of those things where we're going to actually get into software here in just a second, because that's honest. Let's be honest, man. Nintendo's always been about the games. Yeah. You're not buying Nintendo hardware because you're like, dude, this is cutting edge tech, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
And the gimmick can be really fun sometimes, but you know, let's be honest, like the re what was the, the, the ring, you know, the Wii fit ring thing that you had to squeeze and pull. And then they had the balance board for the ski jump thing. And so it's like, yeah, remember that?
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
So it's like, you know, sometimes it seems a little gimmicky, a little hokey, but you don't buy a Nintendo for the hardware capabilities. You buy it for that innovation and for some of the other ideas that they put into their games that make their games really outstanding and stand apart. But yeah, For me, things that would blow my mind.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
What if that mysterious button is actually the button to turn on a microprojector? Or what if these sensors that people are thinking are mouse sensors, which they probably are. I'm not saying they're not. But what if they was double as a projector to where you can now shine... The game that you're playing onto a wall or onto a canvas or something. Micro projectors are very common now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
They're not expensive. They're fairly cheap. They don't take up space. This is something that would blow my mind where it's like Nintendo has this micro projector built into it. You don't need to dock it. You can take it anywhere and you can play it on somebody's wall. you know, or something like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
There's two of them, Ryan. Yeah. We can sit side by side at the doctor's office playing a game, projecting it onto the wall of the doctor's office. Yeah. Right? Like, That would blow my mind. Like, Nintendo, are you listening? Like, we'll give you that one for free, okay?
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
and we're thankful for that man and when people do that and then they they like the show and they say you know i'm gonna leave you guys a review or i'm gonna go sign up to help support the show that means the world to us so there's a reason that we like to say thank you back to people and ryan we got we got not one we got two people to thank oh yeah
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I mean, but so that, to me, that's like an innovation. The technology exists. It's not expensive. Like, this is doable, man. That's the thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
So another thing that we did not come up with, but our Discord community did was, hey, you know what? With the magnetic capabilities of these Joy-Cons that we kind of like to tease and pick on because it's like, ooh, magnets. But there's the thinking that if you make these really neat peripherals for this thing that can attach magnetically, it opens up a whole world of stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
You could magnetically click in a steering wheel. For a racing game or something like that. What about VR? I mean, if it's just an easy port and an easy connection, the kind of possibilities are endless where it's like, could Nintendo release like, I'm not saying it's going to be a great VR headset, but it's like, could we have like a...
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
a simple Nintendo VR headset, because now you can connect all of these different things to this port magnetically. And you don't have to have these weird, well, we can't use this because it doesn't fit. And we'd have to design the switch with all these braces and connectors and things like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Motion controls and position sensors have existed in the Nintendo since the Wii.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
You know? So yeah. So there is the thinking that there's all sorts of options that we have here. And it's fun to speculate about all this stuff. But here's the takeaway for me is... You need to do something, Nintendo. You know what I mean? You need to give me that angle. You need to give me that twist.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
You need to give me that crazy thing that I wasn't thinking of or we didn't know existed or something like that. If the Switch 2 is just a slightly larger, slightly better performing Switch... I'm going to be disappointed. Legitimately, I'm going to be disappointed. I'm going to say, dude, what the heck, man? You followed Xbox and PlayStation at this point, and that's never been your market.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
That's never been your angle. What the heck? Again, still going to buy one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I know. So, all right, we're running out of time, Ryan, but real quick. So they did show off a brand new Mario Kart. The kind of takeaway here was that if you pause the video and you counted all the starting spots, it goes up to 24 people. So, you know, let me take one step back, actually.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I think one of the coolest things that Nintendo could do with the Switch 2 that would be such an easy thing like upgrade for them is I feel like Nintendo has always been kind of poor with multiplayer, unless it's local multiplayer. Right.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
And not only did these people sign up, but they skipped. They skipped the normal sign up and they went straight into the epic tier. Epic. And both of these people are epic because I have been so glad that they joined our community over on our Discord server. They're both awesome people, man. So a huge thank you to Helovit. Dude, Helovit is awesome. Just a cool guy.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
But like you don't get, you know, you don't have Xbox online, PlayStation network, all that stuff where it's like, it's so easy to just hop in with friends and play games. For some reason, Nintendo hasn't figured out how to do that. Well, and that's not to say that they don't, I know there's online Nintendo games. Right. But I feel like that's never really been there. They're like their forte.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So I think that focusing on the ease of multiplayer and the capabilities to do that, whether it's honestly both local. Yeah. We talked about connecting them together, even like a Bluetooth. You know, if we're if I'm hanging out at your house and I bring my switch to we're going to play games and we're all going to be in the same room, we're going to have a good time. Yeah. But make it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
easier to focus on the multiplayer aspect. So my hope is that with this Mario Kart that they showed off in the 24 starting spots, that Nintendo is finally going to jump into that multiplayer market a lot more and make it simple, make it easy. This should not be a difficult thing, Nintendo.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
So that's the other big, like, I don't really want to call it an innovation, but upgrade to the Switch 2 would be just let me play with my friends in an easy format and then give me fun games to play with at the same time. So, all right. So we saw Mario Kart. Software has always been and probably will always be Nintendo's bread and butter. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
We got the confirmation of this Mario Kart game because we saw it. They didn't go into really any details on it. But I do have a question, Ryan. Does another Mario Kart or another Mario Party excite you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
So the follow-up to that then is that is this dependent, is the Switch 2's launch... A little bit more dependent on the huge franchises like Mario, Zelda, Metroid in that regard. Because I can't tell you how much Mario Kart I've played. It's not like we haven't had experience in Mario Kart or Mario Party.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I just don't get excited about those games anymore because they all kind of feel the same to me. So is the Switch 2... Does it need... a brand new Mario game or a brand new Zelda game or Metroid Prime 4 to be the premier launch title?
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I want to go visit him because I'm pretty sure he said he lives in Norway. Norway? Something like that. Somewhere over there. Forgive us ignorant Americans, dude. My geography is terrible, but I know he's from that area and it looks beautiful and he's always, you know, taking pictures and I'm just like, I'm a little jealous, man. So if you want to invite the podcast to come over, hell of it. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
So for somebody like me, here's the difference, right? I've already said, I'm going to buy a Switch 2. That's not really a debate. My wife got super excited. I'm like, don't worry, we're getting a Switch 2. And she got excited. So for me, if the launch title is a new Mario Kart, I'll wait.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Like, like legitimately, it's not a day one purchase for me at that point. I have a switch, you know, it's like this, you know, I'm happy with the games that I have on that switch. The switch two is going to release. If there is not a premier launch title, I am the person that will wait until they have that must play title at that point.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Now you tell me that the switch two is launching with Mario Odyssey two. I am going to stand in line at the store and, The day of release to make sure that I come home with a Switch 2 because I want to play Mario Odyssey 2 that day. And so I think it's critical for Nintendo to have that if their concern is we really want the launch of the Switch 2 to be epic.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Because for somebody like me, that's what's going to sway me. And again, you mentioned your buddy, and I think I'm pretty sure it was Ashley on our Discord server that said, hey, I've never owned a Switch, but I'm absolutely excited and buying a Switch 2. Yes. And so I think there is absolutely a market for that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
But for somebody like me that has a Switch and is happy with the Switch, I'm not quite as excited on launch day if we don't have that premier title to launch with it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So, you know, Ryan, this last question I had in here, it's kind of a no-brainer, but it was, you know, are you planning on buying a Switch 2? But we kind of spilled the beans on that one anyway. So, you know, we'll just leave it there.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I know you were trying to be all nice, but it's like, no, those people suck, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
You're keeping me from playing video games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
We'll make space. Yeah. And then on top of hell of it joining, we had... Lord Vader.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
One other quick point. We didn't talk about it. We're not going to get into it, but they did confirm backwards capability. It looks like it's going to actually use the same cartridges. I'm going to call them cartridges because that's what they are, I guess, that the Switch uses. So that doesn't look like that's going to change. They didn't say it'll play most games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
There are a few that may not work with the backwards compatibility, but it's also nice to see that you're not losing your other library either. So Listen, we hope you enjoyed this episode. We hope that you're excited with us. Like I said, we're gamers at heart. We had to talk about this stuff. We've been talking about it all day. Ryan, you and I were like, let's just do it, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
We got to tell the people. We got to get the excitement out there. We got to share it. We got to talk about it, all that stuff. So we hope that this made your Friday morning just a little bit better. And if it did... You know, take a second, rate the show five stars, leave us a review. Take a moment in your podcast app.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
If you were new to the show and you enjoyed this podcast, make sure you click that follow button, that plus button, that subscribe button, whatever it is in your podcast app. Push it so that you get all of our episodes the day that they release. If you have been following the show and you are a fan of the show or...
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Casually just goes by Vader to his friends. Yes. But Vader showed up out of the blue.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Maybe this episode just completely blew you away and you want to support this podcast. You can do that over at multiplayer squad dot com. You can sign up for as little as five bucks a month. We give you early access, ad free episodes, discord perks, a shout out on the show. I mean, you know, we really do our best to say thank you for the support. But that's it. And fear not.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
This episode is not taking the place of our normal Monday episode. Ryan and I are going overtime, baby. Overtime. Let's do it. We will be back on Monday with a brand new episode as well. So make sure you check back in on Monday. That's it for this episode. Until next time, happy gaming. See ya.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
and just was just epic status. And we were like, Whoa, you know? And so we had some nice fun conversations about how we would be Sith, you know? And so it's kind of cool to be able to vibe with the Lord himself and all that stuff too. So, um, But thank you to both of you for supporting the show. If you want to support this show, you can do that over at MultiplayerSquad.com.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
And we'll give you a shout out and a thank you because we genuinely mean it. And there's a reason that we like to do that. So thank you to everybody that supports this show. And then, you know, I kind of mentioned a review, Ryan, as another way that people can help out. You did. Do we have any to read? Oh, we've got reviews, but we're actually going to have to pace ourselves a little bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I'm just going to read one today. But if you haven't done this already, please take a second to rate us five stars on Apple and Spotify. And if you are on Apple, you can leave us a written review, which we'd love reading on the show. It lets us know how we're doing. And honestly, it lets other people know that might be looking for a gaming podcast that, hey, you should check this one out.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I am your host, Josh. And joining me, he's 15% bigger than he was eight years ago, and his Joy-Con may have some drift. It's Ryan. Okay. You told...
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
That is our motto is we don't suck. It's worth a shot at least. So let other people know that as well. But this review comes in from the Armored Armadillo and it's titled This Podcast is Amazing. And it says, I got an iPhone for Christmas just so I could leave this review. That's how good this podcast is. Long live the podcast. And Merry Christmas, everybody.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
So that kind of tells you we're a little bit behind on reading some of these reviews.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Maybe a little bit. Just a month late. But, you know, better late than never, we always say. That's Ryan's motto for sure.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
So are you Ryan the Gray?
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Family show. So, Ryan, let's get into this, man, because I know we're both pumped. We're both excited. The Switch 2 was officially revealed to us this morning.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I mean, only a few hours ago that the Switch 2 got officially revealed by Nintendo. You gotta love Nintendo. It's the Switch 2 is the official term for it. That's kind of what people have been calling it. But hey, if Nintendo went, yeah, it's the Switch 2. We got a two minute and 22 second video to go along with that. Kudos, Nintendo. That's such a Nintendo thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. There's been a lot of reactions on social media, online, content creators, stuff like that, kind of giving thoughts and breakdowns and all this stuff. And it's an exciting time as gamers. So we want to jump into it. Let's start with the reveal video, Ryan, because this is what we got this morning. They didn't really give any fanfare or notice either.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Which I thought was kind of cool that they weren't like, hey, guys. Huge reveal coming on January 16th at 7.30 a.m. You know, it just kind of dropped. And people were like, yo! Nintendo, what is this? You're shadow dropping the official reveal? So we got this video. This video was an animated video. Yes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
If there was any actual footage where it's swooping past the Switch 2, it almost looked like a Star Destroyer, man. It's like flying past the side of the Switch 2. You know? Roar! and stuff like that. Tie fighter noises. Yeah, exactly. That was a pretty bad... People probably thought I was joking. That was supposed to be a tie fighter sound.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Thank you, Ryan. So we got this showcase. It showed the form of the Switch. It showed the ports. It showed the kind of new Joy-Cons that it has. It showed off the upgraded size of the Switch. They definitely focused on the fact that the Joy-Cons kind of magnetically lock and click into the to the main switch itself.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I felt like this, this video was very similar to like a car commercial, you know, where the camera's like, it's like, dude, it's a, it's a, it's a Toyota, you know, but it's like the camera's swooping past the wheels and then it swoops past the, the, the body lines. And then it shows the headlights on the car, you know? And it's like, I kind of got that vibe from this.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Is that, does that make any sense to you?
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I agree with you. I mean, it was very well done. You can tell this was top-notch. And I'm with you, man. There is... you know, there's the, Hey, we're going to announce that we have an announcement. We're going to hype you all up beforehand. And then it's like, everybody's waiting around.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
And then the announcement happens and everybody talks about it for, you know, a little bit, but then it's like, but everybody knew it was coming. Exactly. You know? And so with this, there's that excitement of like, dude, did you see that the switch to go watch it? And then, and then it's funny because it's radio silence for like two and a half minutes.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
And then they come back and they're like, oh, dude, I didn't know this was getting revealed today. Yep.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Thank you, Ryan. Nothing like a little Pixar humor.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And that means somebody probably told him about it, too. You know, and so it's word spreads like crazy. And I mean, that this morning was just filled with excitement and people getting really excited about this. So I am also a fan of that. I remember this happened when Tango Gameworks announced Hi-Fi Rush at the game show. And they were just like, and it's out right now.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
And it was like, what? What? Now, like, I can go play this game this second. They're like, yeah, go for it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
That the kids can laugh at and the adults can snicker at.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
No, I agree with you 100%. Because I think as gamers, we get kind of tired of the teases and the drawn out, hey, this is going to be revealed. And now we get a little three-second trailer or an animated trailer with three seconds of gameplay. And then there's a gameplay trailer coming in three months. Coming soon. I'm going to forget all about this in three months, man. Just let me see the game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. All right, so we got our fancy-looking flyby, our car-esque commercial for the Switch where they showed everything off. We're going to get into some of the actual knowns on this, but I want to capture the initial impression. I mean, you're sitting there. The world has gone crazy. The Switch 2 was announced. Here's the trailer. You watch the trailer.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
What is that immediate reaction right after the trailer ends?
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man, that was good. Man, I'm excited. I'm ready. I am super excited, Ryan. We are so excited that we're doing a bonus episode for everybody, man. Yes. Because, you know, it's not every day that a new console gets announced. And, you know, people were probably like, well, you guys didn't do a bonus episode when they announced the PS5 Pro. And it's like,
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I'm with you. I will be so bold or stupid, depending on how you look at it, to say. Legitimately, my initial reaction was a little bit of actual disappointment. Oh. Like, I mean, don't get me wrong. I was super excited for the reveal. And I prefaced this immediately by saying, listen, I am 100% going to own a Switch 2. My wife loves the Nintendo Switch.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
I have played many a game on the Nintendo Switch. It's not my primary gaming console, but for my wife, it is. And I have had some very good times playing some of the games on the Switch. So it's like, this is prefaced by saying, I'm going to buy this thing. There is no doubt about it. Yeah. But if we're talking about the very initial reaction, I remember going, that's it?
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
Like, it's just, this is the switch, man. Like, where's the innovation? And I kind of said that on our Discord server this morning. And that was literally like my takeaway was, this is Nintendo, man. Nintendo's never been on the cutting edge of hardware. They've always innovated. It hasn't always worked out. The Wii U is a classic example of that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
But, you know, this is the company that made the NES. This is the company that made the GameCube. This is the company that made the N64. You know, the original Wii. We don't talk about the Wii U a whole lot because it's like, yeah. But the Wii U and that failure led to the Switch. And the Switch was innovative because it's like, dude, here's a mobile console.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
And so I think in my brain, while I'm watching this video, I'm waiting for that big reveal.
Video Gamers Podcast
Switch 2 Reveal Extravaganza Episode - Gaming Podcast
The Nintendo innovation. You know what I mean? Like, dude, after this flyby, they're going to show me something that's going to blow my mind. I'm ready. I'm still ready. Okay. That's the Joy-Con. Oh, okay. Yep. Yep. There's a USB-C port. And then it was over. And then that's when I was like, dude, what? what the heck Nintendo? Where's my innovation at?
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
I saw Prodigy at a concert. Oh, you did?
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Oh, we're very excited to have you, man. Thanks so much for hopping on with us. We're going to make this a good time. I know it's always a little weird to be like, I'm going on this podcast? I don't know who these guys are. But we are very excited to have you.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the video gamers podcast. A video game can be a work of art from storytelling to visual art to an incredibly memorable soundtrack. Music and sound is such an important part of the feel of a game, whether it's joy or fear. But how the heck does someone even do that? Well, on today's episode, we're diving into the world of video game music.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
And just to kind of give you a little bit of background, we've been doing this kind of fun series where we're really trying to talk to various people that are responsible for making the games that we love. So... We have talked to voice actors. We have talked to developers. And you are our first actual music composer that we've had a chance to talk to.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Okay. I got to jump in here because this is the part where my brain just goes haywire and I can't even fathom it. It's like looking at a circuit board for something. You know what I mean? I know that people understand how this works, but I look at it and I'm just like, this is alien technology. You're telling me this can add up numbers and stuff? Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
You're talking about these iterations and you're talking about like, you know, you kind of see the design and you kind of have this idea. But like, so, you know, last night I was listening because I've played Little Nightmares 1 and 2. I think they're very good games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Like, you know, John loves them a little bit more than I do as far as, but I cannot deny, like, honestly, and I'm not saying this just because you're here, but like the music and the sound design in that game is absolutely incredible. Okay.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
when I can be on a level and feel like that, that terror or that fear or that buildup, you know, that that's like something, even though I don't know anything about music, like I can feel that. So I was listening through boots through the undergrowth, uh, you know, and it's this very kind of pulse heavy. It almost sounds like footsteps to me. And like, do you, Do you hear it in your head?
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Like, is this one of those things where it's like you can just kind of hear this sound or this music and then you just have the technical ability to like... you know, put it forth into the world? Is it like, I'm just experimenting and throwing things out there until I go, oh yeah, that might actually work.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
So I know we're both very excited because, I'll be honest, this is a world that I know nothing about. Okay, yeah. I make the joke, and this is a true story, that I was once kicked out of third grade band. I took trumpet lessons for a year and then went to band. And they actually said, no, hey, you're probably not ready for that. And so, you know, I'm not musically inclined at all.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
I think our brains almost revolt a little bit. Like it's, it's like you said, like, it's like my brain knows that this is a guitar, but this is not the way that a guitar should sound. And so it kind of creates that anxiety almost where it's like, it is familiar, but, but it's not the way that's the familiar that my brain likes. And so you get this kind of guttural response almost to it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Like I was listening to this literally last night and I shouted to the other room and I was just like, this song's freaking me out, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Yeah. It's the, it's, it's one of those things where, you know, I think it's, Maybe it's just me getting older. I think maybe with the rise of indie games lately, we've seen a big shift in gaming. Indie games have always existed, but you're starting to see a higher appreciation from gamers as a whole for the indie genre.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Because I think what's happened is a lot of these AAA studios have gotten routine. And as gamers, we go, man, I can really appreciate the passion that these indie developers have. And so it's one of those things where I think we're starting to appreciate the music and sound design for games a lot more. And I think we're really starting to understand how that can impact us.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
I say this a lot, but I love good graphics. I love cutting-edge graphics. I think the technology is amazing. I love to just see a game and go, wow! But we have spoken. Another person that we spoke to was an artist and an animator for games. One of the really neat things that we took away from that is you can only get so real with graphics before it just looks real.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
But reality does not have any artistic sense to it. That's just what we see every day, so there's not really art to it in that case. And with music, I think we're really starting to kind of appreciate... that maybe it's not the visual that we see, but it's those feelings. It's the way that a level can make us feel.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Like Hollow Knight is a really good example of a game that has really, really good sound design to it, where it's like, I can close my eyes and remember a level, not for the visuals, but for the music in that level, if that makes sense. And Little Nightmares, kudos to you, is another one of those games where it's like, I just feel it, man.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
And so I'm always fascinated by people that just have a talent for that. And so we're really excited to have you and kind of pick your brain a little bit. Okay, cool.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Like, yes, I can see it, but that's not the part that I remember, you know? And so I think that's where music really comes in. And I think it's almost something that flies under the radar a little bit. And that's not to dismiss the music.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
I mean, with gamers, because when you feel something, when you walk into that grand city in The Witcher, you know, or Red Dead Redemption 2, for instance, and you're riding your horse across the Old West, that music that's playing in the background is what is making you feel what you're feeling at the time. And I think gamers are starting to realize that. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
So I'm just blown away by it, man, because it's, like I said, this is something that my brain just doesn't compute. I know when I like something, you know.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
You know, people think it's only three keys at the top.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
One of the things you touched on was kind of the difference. And I'll be honest, this is another kind of just blind spot for me, at least. But you kind of talked about like the composing of the music versus like sound design and the iterations, how you come up with these sounds and things like that. And I think a lot of times people just lump together.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
music together i mean obviously there's a thousand different genres you know as far as that goes but i think a lot of times somebody goes oh well if this guy's a composer then he knows how to do everything and i think that is very not true it's almost like artists right like somebody might be a great sculptor somebody might be a great painter somebody might be a great digital artist and i think we kind of comprehend that because it's a little easier to see visually in in the differences um
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Yeah, you're totally right. But I've never thought about the fact that somebody that might be a composer is not composing, like you said, like an orchestra and does not want to or have the desire to get into electronic stuff or sound design or something like that. So is that more like just the medium of art where people are talented at different things or you prefer certain mediums like that?
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
I got to ask you. I'm sorry, John. This is just a quick one. But I am a huge fan of EDM. It's my favorite genre by far. That makes sense for you, Josh. Yeah, I'm an old guy, you know what I mean? And so for me, listening to techno and progressive house and stuff like that, like my wife and kids pick on me all the time because they're like, Dad, you like this weird music.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
And I'm like, it's just what my brain loves, man. So do you have a favorite? Is there like a favorite artist or band that's in the EDM genre that is your favorite right now? Mine is Stoto. So I don't know if you've heard of Stoto, but that's the one where it's like those guys, every song they make, I think is phenomenal.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
It's just the progression. I love the layers. People try to ask me, like, why do you like this stuff? And I go, it's the layers. It's that buildup, man. It's that... you know, that like just hearing this song building up and then come crashing down again, kind of thing.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Is there, so that's a good question too, because, you know, we look up to people that are in the industry and we go this, you know, obviously this person has made it and their career, they, they have this, you know, crazy talent. Is there somebody that you look up to?
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
So Tobias, let's get to know you a little bit better for our listeners. Cause we've had a chance to kind of chat offline a little bit and stuff like that. But we were, we were talking a little bit before we actually started recording. We were kind of asking you if you were a gamer being that we're a gaming podcast, you know, obviously that's, that's one of our interests here.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
So, you know, we're talking about Little Nightmares. You know, Re-Animal has been announced. Is that something that you're working on right now?
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
It is their loss, but it gives you the ability to do what you want to do.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Oh, awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
So you were saying that you do quite enjoy video games. It's just one of those things where when you work on them and, you know, sometimes coming home from work and then playing them is, Not always ideal.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So you mentioned that you're doing freelance work now. Does that feel like freeing to you? I mean, is this like something where it's like, hey, I've done this, I've done game design, or the audio design, sound design, and that kind of thing. Is it more that it's like, I just want to have the freedom to kind of do what my passions are at that point?
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Is that kind of like the driving force behind wanting to do freelance work?
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Like if you feel like you've kind of carved this name for horror, for instance, right? Where it's like, okay, everybody knows I can do horror music and sounds, and I'm great at that. But now you just have people approaching you going like, hey, you want to do the sound for this horror game? And you're like, ugh.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
That's awesome. Well, Tobias, listen, we are running short on time, but we wanted to kind of wrap things up with just a couple gaming questions for you, maybe put you on the spot just a little bit here. What is your favorite game of the last few years that you have played?
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
yeah Elden Ring's a top five game for me uh by far and so I don't know and if you don't have an answer for this one that's plenty okay we know you're busy but is there a game coming out uh either this year or maybe next year that you're very excited to try or to to get your hands on oh that's a good question I'm I don't have good I I don't have um
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
I mean, that's part of what we do, is put games on people's radars. So we're always curious if there's a game. John and I are both excited for a game called Expedition 33 that's coming out very soon that looks really, really good. So it's always a curious question to say, like, is there something coming that you're excited for?
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
I was going to say, you never see a Swedish restaurant in the United States where people are like, come have the Swedish food. No. You're right. I can't think of a single one.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
I've heard of it, but I've never seen it.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Oh, great game.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Awesome. Well, Tobias, this has been so much fun, man. I mean, I can't thank you enough for coming on the show and chatting with us. I've learned a lot. Like I said, this was a huge blind spot for me. My brain just doesn't work with music other than just appreciating it. It's really cool for our listeners and I think gamers in general to just kind of get that peek behind the curtain as to like,
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
We hear it, we feel it, but we had no clue how this is made, how it's incorporated into a video game. The genius behind it, honestly, to do that and to be able to create that feel and that vibe. Yeah. I kind of explain it as like a guttural response. Like you mentioned with horror that you like working on that. And it's so crucial to get that feeling.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Oh, you're speaking about... I love Outer Wilds, man. I have been shouting Outer Wilds to everybody that will listen because I think that game is incredible, man. Everybody gets really bent out of shape about trying to fly the little spaceship around because it's pretty janky. But that game is awesome.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
If it doesn't scare you, then horror is not really doing anything at that point. If it's not giving you anxiety, then what's it doing at that point? So really appreciate you giving your time to just hop on with us and kind of give us that insight. We wish you the best of luck. Thank you for the music and the sound design on Little Nightmares 1 and 2.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
They are insanely well-known games in the gaming community. There's definitely an appreciation the gamers have for that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Awesome. All right. Well, listen, everybody, that's going to do it for this episode. Thank you, Tobias, once again. This has been an absolute blast. This is awesome for me. I know it's awesome for John. He's still just grinning from ear to ear there. So that's going to do it for this one. Until next time, happy gaming. Toodles.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
So for this video game club, do you guys take turns saying, hey, this is the game I want to pick? Or do you guys all kind of just agree on one? How do you go about picking a game for that?
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
I love that.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
I'm that same way where I love just a little sampling of games. I famously don't finish very many games. Even if I love them, I just want to try this next thing or this other game that somebody was talking about or something like that. So I know that bugs a lot of people that are like, you bought this game, you have to beat it. And then I just, I can't say.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, he's said multiple times that Little Nightmares is one of his favorite series. So I have a feeling he's really going to enjoy this episode.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
That exploration is one of the things I love. Outer Wilds, we talked about, was fantastic for that because it just lets you go. And then the way that you discover stuff through just playing the game is fantastic. Elden Ring is like that. But I love a really good challenge. John and I were actually talking about the difficulty of Elden Ring this morning.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
For me, I'm the kind of guy where it's like, if you put this boss in front of me, I will fight that boss 50 times in a row because it's like, well, I have to beat him. But Elden Ring did it really well with that ability to say, listen, if you're stuck, just go do something else. You can play this game kind of the way you want, which I absolutely love. That's true. So we're chatting about games.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
How did you get into video game music, man?
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Well, we're going to explain why, because joining us, the man behind the incredible music and sound of Little Nightmares, this man is responsible for those feelings of dread and fear. So you can thank him for all your anxiety. It's Tobias.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
So that makes me – you said something, and I've always been curious about this too, where you said you worked with kind of giving other composers like a little bit of kind of like an idea of what this needs to sound like. Yeah. For a game, for instance, Little Nightmares, do you compose the music for that, and then they do the level?
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
Do you see the level design and art, and then you go, oh, okay, well, this should have this kind of sound? It's almost like a chicken or egg kind of thing, right? Which one comes first? Because I have no idea.
Video Gamers Podcast
Composing Fear – Tobias Lilja on Little Nightmares & Game Audio – Gaming Podcast
How you doing, Tobias?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Yeah, and I think it sparks conversation you would normally have to go to a very serious place to have. I find that watching Love is Blind or watching Love Island gets Sally and I talking about relationships in a way that's fun because of what they're doing that has nothing to do with us.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Because if I just walk in the apartment cold and I'm like, what do you think about when people don't know how to talk about cheating in their past? It's like we're having a very different conversation now. Because then now you can't convince a person you don't mean you. But then when we watch someone on Love Island... It is a nice... Be like kind of that... It's a great catalyst.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
And it helps yield moments, like Trevor was saying, where it's like... Very quickly, one of my favorite...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
of reality TV moments of all time is on Love and Hip Hop Hollywood when these two women were arguing and you know how they get them drunk they get them drunk and they go to an event but no one at the event but them there's no event and then they get to the event and they're drunk and they're arguing and there was this one woman who had slept with this other woman's friend's man and so she was trying to tell her like you should value yourself more and he's like don't tell me to value myself I value myself which is why he's hitting my phone blah blah blah and they're going back and forth back and forth then the woman whose event it was she like
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
clearly has been drinking too much all day. And she throws up and the other woman go, they're about to fight. And the other woman goes, did you just throw up? And that is the realest moment I think I've ever seen. Like, Forget the cameras for a second. Forget everything.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Did you just throw up? And, like, she almost asked, are you okay? But then the other girl who just threw up was trying to save face. She's like, yeah, you got so much plastic surgery, it makes me sick to my stomach, so you made me throw up. She was like, oh, okay, then that's what we're doing. All right, fine. But, like, that moment, I was like, that's a real person. Yeah. So I vote yes.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
I feel like I definitely vote against Trevor every time.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Okay, so I'll go. And this is more playing God a bit than just like a government mandate if I rule the world as a dictator.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Josh the God. God Josh. If I rule the world. Dear Lord Josh. I would make it actually hurt to be stupid. So, like, if somebody is willfully ignorant, because let me pitch you this, right? Let me pitch you this. Get ready. Because I think you're against me now, and you'll be with me at a second. I'm going to let you land. I'm absorbing that. I'm not against you. I'm in shock right now.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Because if you are someone who, in spite of everything that you know and everything you've been told, is like, you know what? I'm going to stick a fork in the socket. And you stick the fork in the socket. It hurts you because your dumb idea ended up getting you hurt. It costs you nothing to tell everyone else in the room who is impressionable to put a fork in the socket.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
So if you, just by saying and knowing it's wrong, put a fork in the socket, it's essentially Pinocchio but with pain. You know that you're being willfully ignorant. You know that you're lying. You know that. And so I wouldn't put my hand on the lever. I wouldn't be controlling how much. But you would have to have some actual barrier.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Because it costs people nothing to spread misinformation and it costs people nothing to like. lead people for the sake of manipulation in a way that is like willfully dumb. Do you know what I mean? I don't mean people who don't know things yet. That's okay.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Alex Jones would be in constant pain. That's that's what I mean. Someone who like like for every because what Alex Jones does that's particularly insidious is that he he plays on things where whenever it's the right time and he's on the right podcast, he's an entertainer. And he's somebody who's just like, yeah, he's just like taking the piss out of everything.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Even in court, I'm taking the piss out of everything. But then then when when it's just you and Alex and you, I mean, an impressionable person. who really feels downtrodden and you don't know who's to blame or if it's your fault or whatever, Alex is taking advantage of those people.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
He's catering to people who need something to blame that's physical and they can get out there and they can attack that person, which is why you have Alex Jones fans spitting on and following and harassing People who are families of victims of school shootings.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
No, you know, I think I was more like, I always come to if I rule the world like I rule the world, like this should work. So then when y'all hit me with things I didn't think about, I feel like I'm not really ruling the world. I feel like my plans are falling apart. So I get a little vindictive because I'm like, all right, you asked me what to do if I rule the world.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Yeah. But it's like Alex. No. And look, if he doesn't know, then it actually wouldn't hurt that much. But he knows he knows what he's doing and he knows when he's lying. OK. I used to wonder if Alex was like this crazy person or if he genuinely is this grifter who knows what he's saying is false.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Because what he the two things that made me feel like, oh, no, he knows what he's doing is any time on the rare occasions that. that he is right about something, he then uses that to leverage 19 other things that have nothing to do with that thing.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Then, when the lawyer for the families who were suing Alex Jones over Sandy Hook, when that lawyer said, you have such an incompetent counsel, Yeah. Yeah. And Alex's face, a crazy person would be like, that didn't happen or whatever. Alex's face was like, oh no. So now I know that you're like bullshit. But that's why he lost the case, right?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
And so that's what I mean. It's one of those things where- What kind of pain?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
I'd be in pain if I wasn't. Jeez.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
I see what you're saying. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Because this is my only pitch where I'm like, you can vote with me or against me. I won't hold it against you past today. The world that I'm proposing sans the actual pain is the world that we live in. So you can go and tell people to do all these things and like, you know that they're not true and you're not actually helping anybody or you think it's true and then you see people hurt.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
But that is the world we live in. It just takes longer. And it depends on if you see the pain or not. You don't. You become president, right? You become president and you fear for your life every day because they already shot at you once. I think that in my opinion, most people really aren't getting away with anything in the long run of things.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
It really is, actually. Really? Like Buddhist principles? I just feel like since we're already not getting away with anything, it might as well be immediate. to be your own version of correction. Because if I'm the guy holding the fork and I put it in there, I'm like, it's not worth it. I'm not going to do it again.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
This is what I want to know. I want to know more about the pain. Who brings the pain, Josh? I think it would be as different as the person. So for instance, I think that if I'm sitting down with Christiana and I'm like, look, let me tell you what the third trimester is like. I might slow down if my nose just starts bleeding a little bit. Do you have it?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
You didn't tell me to plug up all the holes in my logic.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
No, I don't think so.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
You still have the same life expectancy. I think a physical representation of the thing now is there are those people that are like very like crunchy, hippie and everything. And they drink silver because they're like, no. They drink silver? Yeah, they drink silver. I have not heard about that.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
And so they're like, no, if I drink the silver, I won't need like a list of things that are actually like not that invasive and just like medically invasive. Because of its antibacterial qualities.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
It's like they will turn a little bit blue. You'll see it on them. Yes.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Yeah, they'll look like what they're going through and they'll still be sick because you just drink a silver. You didn't like go to the hospital. Yeah, I mean, and I think that that version is like kind of almost the thing that I'm proposing now where it's like you're not walking around like, ah, ah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
But I do think if you're sitting there and you know, you know, but because of like whatever biases you have, like I watched this documentary with someone who had left the neo-Nazi movement and he said that the entire time I was in there, the entire 20 years that I was a neo-Nazi, I spent all of my days and most of my life rationalizing because I was constantly being bombarded with things that showed me the world was not the way that I
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
had both been told it was and was telling myself that it was. And so I'm like, yeah, you're already in pain to a certain degree because now this like black neighbor that you have has been incredibly nice to you and mowed your lawn and everything. Okay, but you feel like they should have gotten that pain earlier. A hundred percent.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Yeah, yeah. Because now he's over here. He's this neo-Nazi who was whooping ass for 20 years and now he's like, but I've changed. He's like, that's great. I'm glad. But man, maybe if your head hurt a little bit while you were like rationalizing,
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
I think it starts when your brain stops developing. That way everybody gets, you know, their little fair share. Like, if you're a kid, like, you wouldn't even understand the pain if they gave you the pain.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Okay. I will say I'm not talking about imagination and I'm not talking. I'm talking about I'm not even having my hand on the lever. OK, you know what's a lie and you keep telling it to people and that gives you a headache. And so I get everything that you're saying.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Oh, no. A lie. I'm talking about a lie that is like,
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
willful ignorance i'm still not talking about having an imagination or a lie to like protect someone's feelings yeah i mean okay like if somebody's like it's only something where you believe the opposite completely and you are doing it it's really only malicious yeah it's really only like the slightly slightly to very malicious spread of uh misinformation or i'll change my vote yes wow oh
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
I did not see that coming. I'll change my vote to yes. Oh, Josh. Yeah, wow. No, no, no.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
I forgot about the boners.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Yeah, yeah. Nope, you right.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Yeah. No, no. Those people will probably have to be tackled. Damn, Josh, you were close.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
We've actually never done an If I Ruled the World that was a revised idea of an old idea. That's true.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
That's true. Okay, so you're going to come back?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
I might. Look, it might be through If I Ruled the World later. This is going to take time. Because now I forgot about a whole demographic of people and everything.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
But I feel like he's doing it in reverse. He already killed all the people and now he's doing it. Okay, that's true. I think I would vote for this because I think that one of the most humbling things in the world is like doing an art that you don't do and then try to look like an expert in the same day.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Like if you're like, hey, y'all, we have to invade. But then the people just saw you and they were like, bitch, you can't draw. How are you going to let us get killed and you can't draw? You know what I mean?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Okay, I like this. So yours is A? I am a yes for this. Christiana?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
You know, in my world, ooh, he'd be like, ow, ow, ow.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Yeah, but those thoughts are pretty quiet. Just like the sex. But man, people have sex everywhere. I'm with you. People in jail have sex.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Yeah. You don't have the thoughts. Because this is what I'm, this is, I want you to win here. I want to see you succeed. So these are my questions. All right. Do you know how good the sex can be if people reveal their intimate secrets?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Just letting it come out. Okay, so I have three questions because I, once again, I think this is a very interesting idea. when your thought comes out. Can you talk while your thought comes out? You can't talk at the same time. You can't talk at the same time as your thought comes out.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Okay. Because you can think so fast and because you can think
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
faster than you can speak you could speak and then think and then the thought comes out right after the spoken word that's true so you could say oh this is the best sex I ever had and then your brain goes no it's not and you'd want that person to hear that yeah you can do that then the other two things which I feel like are the sticking points for Christianity let me ask you so I'll tell you why
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
You have a comedic thought, which is a joke. Yes. And people will see you perform the joke in a place that's also a setting for jokes.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
And they'll still be like, they meant it. Okay. So now a thought that is like a sexy thought or I'm just thinking or I'm thinking whatever is going to now seem like, because remember, you can't hear the thoughts when we're not being intimate.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
So now the only time I hear your thoughts, it's going to be a thing that might be slightly negative or offensive. be a thing that takes the fantasy too far. Because you gotta remember, for people who are into S&M or anything like that, there might be a moment where it's like you're consensually choking someone who wants to be choked. But in your head, you're like, I'm gonna kill you.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
I vote yes immediately. I also vote yes because you really want to go out like an all-star. You know what I mean? Some of these people start their political career and they're saying all the right stuff. But then you can tell after like three years, they're like beat down and they try to pass the same thing over and over again. You have to be. And they get cynical. Yeah, they get cynical.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
And now, you are never gonna kill them. You're never gonna kill them. They are honestly here. So now they're like...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
But now you've distracted from the thing that they were enjoying, which was the little rough, choky thing. Exactly. Because now you had to think around the thing you would have been. I can take this. I've got something as well. Okay.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Because now you get stabbed where you get hooked up.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
thoughts before you kiss. This is the only other thing that I have.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
It does feel like radical honesty, but I think that there's a world where because you and I, Trevor, are both men and we understand what men are like. Yes. I had to sit down a couple of my friends who did not believe me when I told them there were plenty of men in this world who will act
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
flamboyant they'll even act gay to like get in with you and now that they're your gay best friend or y'all touch or y'all play or whatever now you're like oh I've never thought about you this way and I've never been with a woman all lies all lies again literally that much of a long game and I worry that you will create Jedi's of men who know their thoughts are going to be heard.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
So they're like, I got to, because you got to remember, you got to remember, a lot of dudes are trying not.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
And then 15 years later, they're like so... It's like, what do you mean so?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Because this is the thing, they know when it's going to be turned on, so they know how they have to think for it. Then they know when it's going off. So then they can be like, Whew. Okay. Right? Right after she leaves. I'm saying already in this analogy, a lot of guys during sex are trying not to end sex. They're fighting to keep the sex going. So a lot of what you'll hear are baseball statistics.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
a lot of it'll just be like the great Bamboni. And so now she's like, why is he just doing numbers in his head?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Oh, just did it because I mentioned it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Who knows? People probably, I'm assuming, don't quite have some of the sensitivities that they have in our current world.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. It's the same way.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Okay. I think I might be out of questions, but I guess my other thing is that not to lean heavily on the friction forever, but I guess there are things of like, even if we're having a coffee together.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
And you just keep checking your phone. You're giving me the impression you want to be somewhere else and you want to do something else. Yes. So then when I'm like, hey, are you late? Do you need to go? Whatever. And you're like, no, no, no, I'm fine. But then you do keep doing this.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
That for me, I think you'll have a hard time while sex will become more honest and more like understanding of what the experience was for both people. I wonder if you would not actually slightly increase the amount of bad sex because of just how the brain works.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Even in your alternate universe where people know this is going to happen, there's still a level of like, sex is already the most intimate thing you can do with a person. So if they are clearly thinking about someone else or don't want to be there while consenting in a way. I think in this world, we haven't considered sex workers.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Yeah, because if you went to a restaurant and then they're taking your order, but they're also like, dumbass forehead. Like that would be like, oh, I don't even know if I want to eat here anymore.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Because they were like, if I ruled the world, I really wouldn't change anything except for this one thing. I mean, yes, because it's not a big deal.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Okay. I'm ready for my votes. Okay. So I'm actually going to vote yes. I'm voting yes because I do think there are a lot of people who don't deserve to be having sex. And this will ruin them. This will, this will completely, this will take them down. Right. Like I said before about us being men and us like knowing what other men are like. Yes. And I'm like, if you, if,
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
If there was a thing that was not me as your friend to like one of my female friends, right, who was telling on him right now, if there was something he could do that could tell on himself, maybe you'd finally see it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
And I think that only in a world like this will that happen.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
And so I would say, yeah, I do consider the sex work part of what you're talking about. Because then sex workers would have to become Jedi experts at like... But nobody can in my world. They can't do the Jedi thing?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Oh, okay. Okay. Well, then... It's worth the takedown of terrible people.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
I'm not against it. I don't see any. Yeah, honestly, to vote against it, low-key makes it seem like you like pecan.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
You know what I think could have won Christiana over, though, is if your world where you do this thing is like the the total recall thing. So you put the thing on and then you can hear the thoughts. But it's like a thing that you have to switch on. No.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Wait, no. Then I got to vote no. How did I just lose you? Because every dude I was trying to destroy will now opt out.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Yeah, what do you think condoms are, bro? That's what people do at half the time. Hey, you on birth control or whatever, right? Okay.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Look, can I tell you right now, this feels like a beer crack way to get at the cookout. Yeah, dude. I mean, I know infiltration when I see it. There's some COINTELPRO. Yeah. Yeah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
OK. I also vote yes. The COINTELPRO was a joke. I do think that there's a there's a world where using government funds to build community is what.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Exactly. Because then they measured the steps of people in New York versus people in Portland. Yes. And it's like, by and large, all New Yorkers walk faster than all people in Portland.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
So it's like, I think everyone starts to figure it out once you set those lanes up. The real problem is there's actually not enough sidewalk to go around. Right. Because you got to go this way and this way, and you have to do it fast and slow. I don't know. That's four lanes of sidewalk. I don't know.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Ben, I will tell you though, if you're trying to make your own fast lane, just walk with your fists out. People will get out the way.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
I don't see a baby seat in that backseat. No, I think it would be a bit rough because they would all have to be pre-planned. So we'd have to figure out like four or five messages you could say.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
I'm just saying this is trouble. I mean, we're getting towards that self-driving, so you're going to have to do something. I hear you, but it's a no for me.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
I mean, probably a no because I don't understand it, but yeah, yeah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Let me tell you right now, documentaries have that thing. They're starting to get that thing where
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
there's a real wrestling match going on with like we want to tell your story but also don't make me look bad but also you have to give us enough stuff i'll tell you right now there's a one of the most incredible uh soccer players female soccer players of all time hope solo has an incredible documentary out and i really love the documentary because it i felt like it gave me everything while still like not protecting her but like like
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Shielding us a little bit from things that would make us judge her harshly. But there is one point in it that I really liked where they had her talking about being like the real like rabid. We need to get up to this level type person on the team, like the Jordan of the team. And they use the B-roll. And you could tell the B-roll she was cursing the shit out of those girls.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
But they didn't play that B-roll because they probably knew it wouldn't make her look some type of way. And she was already telling us that's what she was doing without saying the words. So she's like, I could be tough on my teammates, right? But in the B-roll, it's her being like... It's like coaching while she's playing. And so I get what you're saying. The documentary has a filtered...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
nature that reality TV doesn't have.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
And shameless people are sometimes the most honest. Shameless people do the same. They do things for the same reasons that we do them. But we either rationalize or like rationalization is sort of lying to yourself about it. But then there's also the lying to the world about like, no, no, no, I did for this reason. Where a shameless person is like, I was trying to get the money. I got a plug.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: Careful What You Think [VIDEO]
Why would I not get the money?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
If I ruled the world, everyone would get an assigned partner. And whatever you'd want that partner to be. So if you're a gay man and you really want a husband, we'd make sure you get a husband. If you're a lesbian and you want a wife, I'd make sure you get a wife. Straight. Or if you're someone that's like, I just want platonic love, we'd get you a best friend.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
We'd have like social work. No, no, no, no, no. Everyone would be compelled to.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
To have an assigned partner. You can say what that assigned partner has to be. But we have to have them. Yes. So no one's single in the world. No one's alone in the world. But no one's single as well. Well, you can have an assigned partner and not be romantically involved with them.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Some of it would be a friend. Oh, okay.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Okay, wait. So imagine you're like, everyone has to have an assigned partner. And as long as you're both alive, you are contractually obliged to each other in some way. Okay, but what does that mean? It could be, some people would be like, I want a husband. Okay. So I would make sure that person got a husband or a wife. And so they wouldn't be matched up with somebody who wanted the opposite.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, okay, okay. And then some people would be like, I don't want a husband. I don't want someone in my house. But I want to know, but when I grow old, I'll have a companion. But I would prefer that person to be a woman. And then we'll be like, okay, we're going to find you a best friend. And we'd arrange it and you'd have to be together. And this is what I think it does.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
It solves our loneliness problems. Because there's so many people that like die alone and live alone. But if you have an assigned partner, that side of your life is taken care of.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
No, but it doesn't have to be a marriage.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
No, but we would do our best to ensure it's like a good match.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Algorithms, human wisdom, prayer maybe. I'm just saying, it's just like, let's be clear. People make really bad choices picking their own assigned partner. So it's not like you can do it any better.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Right. And I'm like, let's outsource that to some sort of government body. And mind you, in the government, it's in their interest for you to be happy because happier people are more productive citizens and there's less crime, there's less violence, et cetera, et cetera. No, you guys are not sold.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Oh, interesting.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
But that person definitely needs a person. As somebody who's had like family members who just like isolate themselves from like the family for whatever reasons and you don't know where they are, you don't know what they're doing. It's a big worry.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Sure, if that's your thing. I don't kink shame, you see. No, no, I'm just saying because we're trying to solve problems here.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Well, there are people like that.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
You know what I mean? Yeah. Okay. I think it would, it'd be like, it wouldn't be like an opposites attract thing. Cause I think fundamentally they'd have to be assigned someone that has the same value system as them. Right. Even though if they have a different personality, but it would just mean that you would always have a person.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Well, the thing is, if you go to prison, you're going to have lots of assigned people. Wow. In other cells. So my assignments follow me. Yeah, yeah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
No, I feel like, I don't think it would become contentious. All human relationships have stuff, but I think it would do a lot of things for loneliness because people get to a certain age and they just wake up. Maybe they get widowed or maybe they...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
I don't think it's the push. Okay. So there's been all these, but every year we pick up the newspaper, we watch news and there's a story of somebody who has died in their apartment and it's been there for years.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
And there's a smell coming from it and the neighbors are like, what's that? And then the police come and it's a skeleton. There's a specific case of actually a black British woman and it's a skeleton watching TV and it's like the apartment stuck in time.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
And I think about that happens so much in cities.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
In Africa, you need to unassign people. You need less people in your business.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
No, I feel like, I think the assigned person is sacred. Oh, okay. I'm going to go back now and vote more noes.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
I'm on board for the amendment. I just want the vote. Wow. This is the problem with politics today.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
So like cultural exchange.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
But they assign partner, you wouldn't need visas. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
I mean, I would watch it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
So it's a referendum, which I hate because of Brexit.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
But who would give the free healthcare?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
How do you get to be a bureaucrat?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
So you're letting a robot do that work? What do you mean? An AI would do the interpretation? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
AI is so, no.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Okay, go for it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
So you're basically pitching direct democracy. It's like what the Greeks used to do, but a digital version. Yeah. So that means everybody gets a say.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
And it's easy to have a say. Yes. Okay, I don't like that. Everybody should get a say.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
No, everybody should get a say.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
My other question, is there still religious institutions? Yeah, it's in the world we're in. So that means you still have leaders and politicians. No, no, no, no. I get what you're saying. Because my worry is that... Humans are like inherently hierarchical. And now we don't have politicians. Okay. They are going to find other like people to do the thinking on their behalf.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
So it's either going to be religious leaders. In my world, probably be TikTokers. Okay. It's going to be people who used to dance as a hobby, but now make bread online.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
After you, Josh.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
But aren't they getting advice from their bureaucrats?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
I know, and I want to be the one that has it again. Now I'm my competitive state.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
The issue I'm having is people vote against their own interests all the time.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
And they vote for things that are bad for them. Yes. And in history, the best, not even politicians, the best leaders have gone against, say, a Fred Hampton RIP. Gone against the status quo.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
The people were like, no way. You know, like really deeply unpopular idea. And sometimes it's like top down. This is what we're going to do. Like to give an example, like the COVID mandate. Well, if you don't get this shot, you're not coming to work. And then people are like, oh, some people are like, OK, I'm going to quit my job. But most people are like, all right. Shoot me in the arm. Yeah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
And then it, you know, kind of didn't eliminate. But this life threatening virus slowly receded from society, even though it's still there. Right. So the thing that we need about politicians is that they can push through unpopular things by force that people do not want. But we can take back that power. Right.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
And we can get rid of them. Yes. However, if I'm in a society where I'm in like a minority that knows that this will be better for us as a group.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Let's think about gay marriage. It was like never a popular thing. People were like, no, no, no, no. And then the Supreme Court one day was like, oh, yeah, actually, why not? You know what I mean?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
But there were enough people that would still vote no.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Well, that's my issue because I think that you under, like politicians is just the name and the label and the job. No, I know what you're saying. But humans are political animals.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
And there's going to be that person that's going to go around, do the work. Yes. Go door to door. Yes. And say like, well, the machine is telling you this, but I know.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
No, in my system you can't do that, Jordan. Why? There's money. It's capitalism. How are you going to pay for all of this stuff?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
You think I'm going to need money if I rule the world? So there's no wealthy people in this society that can pervert this thing?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
One day I want to buy an election.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
But why don't you just ban lobbyists? Or, like, have less money in politics?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
People are lazy. We're giving them an app. Some people may just let their kid vote. You go ahead. You vote for me.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Oh, so it's a surveillance technology. No, it's not.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
I'm sorry.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
That is dystopian. I don't want to give the government my eyes. Okay, okay.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
A number. Like a normal person.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
No, you can get my phone right now.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
I'm not taking the mark of the beast.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Trevor, just pay per tick. No, I would know.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Yeah, because it's like the same pool of people voting multiple times.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
It is simple. Okay, I don't think voting should be hard because now I'm going to sound like a gerrymandering Republican, but we shouldn't make it too easy to vote.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
No, no, no.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Recognition in the Constitution or something like that.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Fentanyl kills.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
How do we fix that in your system?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Preach. I'm going to vote no, but not for the reasons that Trevor thinks, not because I think human beings are so awful and terrible, even though I do think they are, but because I think that it's easy to get burnt out. Thinking like most people do not like to think about political choices all the time. That's why they outsource these decisions.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
And I think what would eventually happen would be a dictatorship. Like people would be so burnt out. They're like, actually, I don't want to think about this ever again. Is there one person that can do for me? If it's a good outcome, it'd be a woman dictator, which we don't really get to see often. Yeah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
There would be more burnt out than the system we have now where people have to like see campaigns and go to a ballot station and listen to things and read things. One thing I believe about humans is that there are a lot of apolitical humans out there. Like most people do not. I agree with you. They don't want to think about this.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
They don't want to think about issues.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
No, no. Some people have good lives, Trevor. Yeah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
I think it sounds, it sounds really tiring, the system. And I just say that, like, parents, I'm telling you, they're going to be like, please, no.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
I mean, I like that. Imagine. Now's your chance to defend me and be like, there's reason.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
This is insane.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
I can't believe this.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
No, what I'm saying is we'll make it interesting. We'll make it interesting.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Would there be a guide?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
I didn't know he was a deadbeat.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Didn't know that about him. Pretty sure...
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
He's like a prophet.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
At least Jesus didn't have any kids. I'm not saying you should be a Christian, but he had no kids. Yeah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
So you've never done psychedelics?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Have you smoked weed?
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Wow. I think you've done nothing in life.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
You don't take antidepressants. You're just raw dogging the world. No, no.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
That's insane.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
I think nicotine would be enough for him.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
We're like, we can't find one. No, no, no, no. For Trevor, crack is the end game.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
So it'd be like season 40.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
It would definitely be crack. Yeah. I think, Josh, with your psychedelics thing, since you don't drink, you don't smoke weed, I don't know if you're the best authority on people trying drugs. The whole population trying other substances.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
No, but like, it doesn't come from experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
I thought you were on the same journey this guy is on. No, no, no. But now to find out that you actually seem crazier now that you haven't done it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
You could take him to Oregon and you do the thing and he comes back and he's like, absolutely not. Are we doing that, Josh? I think Josh should do it. Because Josh doesn't do anything.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
also made them think about why it was a bad trip and expose... No, I think you're coming to it from a very considered perspective. I respect it, but I still think you should do it. Because I'm not going to do it, so you do it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
I'm going to say after we spoke to Michael Pollan, right, Josh? After that... I mean, my politics group chat that you guys, my nerdy mum group chat, we had a thing and we were like, okay, we're going to do a trip and we want to get a guide and do shrooms.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Look at this. We want to get your person.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
But we kept being mothers. There's so many caveats already. I'm with you. Maybe this person sits out and makes sure our phones are this. So we are considering it. I think we're all chicken to ever do it.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
okay and we're tired exhausted probably just like sleep most of the trip yeah but like i'm i'm becoming more open to it i but i think you should do it before you propose a law about it it's only fair yeah unless it's political hypocrisy you know what josh i see what she says she thinks you're chicken you're not chicken no after this episode me and you we go and we're gonna make it happen any any questions from you christiana i'm ready to vote on this yeah i'm ready to vote on it i don't have any questions okay yeah and you're voting
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
I'm going to vote no. Damn. But I think that the spirit behind it is a really beautiful thing because you're saying everyone should get the chance to be free. Yeah. Which is what psychedelics can possibly do. But you're voting no. Yeah, because I don't think we should compel anyone to do things with their bodies. I'm truly pro-choice.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Well, we compel people all the time.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
No, but I wouldn't even force people to take vaccines. Do you know what I mean? Wow. No, no, Josh is like, we recorded Josh. Let her hang with me. She said no vaccines. I do vaccines. I want my kids to be around people who have vaccines. But I would never say if I was running a government, I'd be like.
What Now? with Trevor Noah
If I Ruled the World: The One Where Everyone Tries Crack [VIDEO]
Don't do anything. Radical consent. If I was Gen Z, I'd be like one of the people. Can I kiss you? OK, now I'm going to take off your top. I'd be like that type of person. But I'm not. I'm like a millennial. But yeah, I just I feel we can't. I don't want to compel anyone to do something with their body, especially that affects their mind. So I'm sorry. So no, Josh.
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Tom Has Some BAD THOUGHTS | Your Mom's House Ep. 808
Yeah.
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Tom Has Some BAD THOUGHTS | Your Mom's House Ep. 808
Awesome.
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Tom Has Some BAD THOUGHTS | Your Mom's House Ep. 808
Okay.
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Tom Has Some BAD THOUGHTS | Your Mom's House Ep. 808
I thought the staff put this together, but it's a real clip.
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Tom Has Some BAD THOUGHTS | Your Mom's House Ep. 808
Yeah.
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Tom Has Some BAD THOUGHTS | Your Mom's House Ep. 808
Oh, I'm about to enter a world where anything is possible. Once you come with me,
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Tom Has Some BAD THOUGHTS | Your Mom's House Ep. 808
What?
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Tom Has Some BAD THOUGHTS | Your Mom's House Ep. 808
Yeah.
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Farts Are A Love Language | Your Mom's House Ep. 805
There's a sign in there that says Niana's fart corner.
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Farts Are A Love Language | Your Mom's House Ep. 805
Oh, yeah, 100%. But if she does, I shame her hardcore because that's disgusting.
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Farts Are A Love Language | Your Mom's House Ep. 805
Damn, bro. Oh, good luck, bro.
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Farts Are A Love Language | Your Mom's House Ep. 805
Yo, officers, have a good one.
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Farts Are A Love Language | Your Mom's House Ep. 805
Back in like 2020, when he first got arrested, we found out about him and tried to send him money. And he got sentenced to 28 years. I think he only did like six. Good. Yeah, it was cool. He was going around with a hammer and beating these guys up. Yeah, really fucking them up bad. Oh, wow. I love it.
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Farts Are A Love Language | Your Mom's House Ep. 805
I mean, the other hand kind of helps with the washing process, I feel like.
Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Farts Are A Love Language | Your Mom's House Ep. 805
Yeah, you got to do one of those things. But I feel like that's not as thorough. I like that.