It was only in the last few decades that science became aware that itches aren't just low-level pain. And in that time, the mystery of how we itch and why we scratch has gotten even more baffling. Explore the mystery with Josh and Chuck in this classic episode.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Hi, everybody. Chuck here. It's May 9th, 2017 and podcast time. I know it's really 2025, but we're going all the way back. to May of 2017 to talk about itching. Oh boy, just seeing that title probably makes you itch. And that's one of the deals with itching, if I remember correctly. So I hope you dig it and I hope you're not too itchy right now.
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry Roland. So this is Stuff You Should Know, Scratching Edition. Yeah, this is one of many. You remember when we did yawning? Yeah. Well, that's the only one I can think of, where just researching something makes you do the thing you're researching. This definitely happened with this one.
Yeah, well, we ran across that in Poison Ivy and Scabies for sure.
Oh, yeah.
And talked about some of this stuff, but I think itch. We had an itch we needed to scratch with this particular topic.
Well, I'm glad. I've been wanting to do this one for a while.
Yeah, you did a video about this, right? Yes. A short video.
No, it was three, four hours long. Okay.
Okay. If I remember correctly. Does that mean we have to do this? Do I have to be here for the next four hours?
Yeah, we have to just play the whole thing, and then we'll talk about it for an hour after. That sounds good. Okay. I think it was a Brain Stuff video, wasn't it? Yeah, I watched it. Did it scratch your itch? Yeah, I watched it yesterday. Oh, okay. Nice work. Thank you very much. Now we finally arrive at what I was after.
compliment yeah no it was great thanks man um so i guess the the point of all that is to say you guys are going you're going right my videos are the best uh that you're going to scratch you're going to feel an itch which is one of the great mysteries of itches it turns out we only very very recently have started to get a handle on
what itches are yeah um and there's still plenty of mysteries left to it like for example it's bizarre and there's really no evolutionary reason as far as anyone can tell why just hearing about itches or seeing someone else scratch can make you itch right that's that's odd that's that's weird we're seeing a video of an ant crawling up yeah an arm will make you itch It will.
But, I mean, think about it. If somebody is sitting there, you see a video of some schmo who's got his hand like near an oven and he pulls it away really quick, it doesn't hurt your hand. It doesn't make you feel like your hand is burned. No. That doesn't happen.
I don't even think that would excite mirror neurons like a leg break would. No.
You're just like, what a stupid idiot. That's what it excites, you know? I hope that guy's hand just burns clean off. That's what I think, right? Right.
Yeah.
You sourced a couple of, well, we had our own article on HowStuffWorks.com, but you also sent this great New Yorker article written by Dr. Atul Gawande.
One of the best names in writing today. Yeah, that may be my new hotel name. Well, you may be thronged by science fans because that guy's pretty well-known.
Actually, I've never used an alias at a hotel. That's dumb. And I don't even know if you can, can you? I guess if you're a big shot, you can.
Yeah, but you have to be like, I'm not Brad Pitt. I'm Atul Gawande. Right.
But we'll get to some of the more interesting aspects of that article later, specifically a very specific patient that's quite distressing.
So calm down for now, Atul's mom. We'll get to it eventually.
He did include a couple of neat historical tidbits. Like in 1660, and Germans are all over this thing for some reason. Yeah. Researchers, they're all German.
They had the itch to explain the itch. I guess so. Yeah.
The itch. Right. But there was a physician in 1660 named Samuel Hoffenreffer. Actually, that's my new hotel name. Yeah, it is. That's a good one. He kind of, well, he defined it by saying an itch is an unpleasant sensation that provokes the desire to scratch. Pretty simple.
Yeah.
But right on the money.
It is. And actually, it's so on the money that anywhere you look in the medical literature, whenever they define itch, word for word, that's the definition they use. The Haffenreffer? Yeah. Although poor Haffenreffer doesn't get credit for it all the time. But that's the one. The only expansion of that that I've seen is that can occur anywhere on the body, which apparently is true.
I think Haffenreffer, he felt that was implied. Right. He's like, it goes without saying.
Yeah. I'm scratching right now, by the way.
I don't know if I just noticed more because as I was doing it, I was thinking, well, now I'm scratching. Then I thought, do I always scratch this much or itch this much?
Oh, I hadn't thought about that. I'm pretty sure that I was – I don't think I scratch as much as – I don't know. You raise a really good question.
Maybe we can get an intern to follow us around and just record our scratching.
Right. I'm surprised that that's not already a TV show, frankly. Josh and Chuck scratch? Just being followed around.
Yeah.
Oh. You know? No one wants to see that. Well, that's probably why it's not.
You're scratching.
See, that's what I'm saying. I don't think I scratch this much.
I don't notice it. All right, moving on to Dante's Inferno. It was in Dante's Inferno, the burning rage of fierce itching that nothing could relieve is how falsifiers were punished.
Yeah, do you know what a falsifier is? Us? No, really, isn't that somebody who bears false witness or somebody who falsifies a document?
I don't know, is it just a fancy name for liar?
Maybe. Maybe.
Oh, I thought you were going to tell me. You were just wondering.
Yeah, I don't know.
All right. Well, I don't know what Dante meant, but they're bad people.
Sure, apparently. There's a special place in health for them, literally. Well, I guess actually not literally. Figuratively. Sure. Literarily.
Oh, very nice. So itching scientifically is known as pruritus. P-R-U-R-I-T-I-S. Yeah. It's one of those tough to pronounce things, for me at least. And for well actually they still believe that the evolution of the itch was to help humans survive basically because so many things that can kill you and nature
or things like mosquitoes or flies or spiders or fleas that can have malaria or the plague or any number of diseases attached to their tiny little insect bodies. So, hey, human, you've got a mosquito on your neck that could kill you. You might want to slap it or scratch.
Yeah, and that's still, as far as I know, the evolutionary hypothesis for why we experience itching. Yeah. And it's not just us either. Well, you're scratching like crazy now. It's found throughout the animal kingdom from us to apparently fish have shown scratching behavior. Yeah, that's crazy. Fruit flies. How does a fish scratch, you might ask? It rubs up against rocks. Yeah, it's kind of cute.
It is a little cute.
It's like I remember my dad did like the –
who was the bear in jungle book was that baloo yes he would do the baloo where he would get up against a tree or a wall yeah and then i did it probably because of that i'm sure that's where i got it and realized that it works and i still do it every now and then oh yeah yeah i look kind of silly but do you sing while you do it yeah bear necessities right that's still my favorite what else are you gonna sing
5?
I'm going to start doing that, actually. You'd be like, I think something's wrong with Chuck. Yeah. So like you said, though, it was up until almost, what was it, 1987? The mid to late 80s.
Yeah.
That another German, H.O. Handwerker. and his gang of toughs, they started to do actual research about it. They were puzzled and wanted to solve it.
Right, because up to this point, up to actually 1987, everyone thought that an itch was just a low-grade pain stimulus. Yeah, I guess they were just happy with that. That's just what they thought it was. And Handverker said, you know what? Let's find out if this is actually true. I'm tired of sitting around just assuming this is fine. I'm Handverker.
And he got to Verker with his hands testing this, right? So what he... I know it was like Jonathan Strickland level puns. What he did was... This is just awful.
Yeah.
He introduced using like electrical stimulation, I guess. He introduced histamine to skin cells, right? And histamine is a natural, I don't know if it's a protein, but it's a natural chemical, right?
Yeah.
that the body releases in response to certain stimuli, say, for example, like a mosquito bite or something, and it triggers the inflammation and immune response in that area, right? So histamine is associated with itch, and it had been for a very long time. So this guy was using electrical stimulation to introduce histamine in increasing amounts in these poor study participants.
And it went from barely noticeable to, this is a quote, the maximum imaginable itch. And they never felt pain.
Yeah, like even though they ramped it up to 11, no one ever said like, holy crap, that hurts.
They said, please, please, for the love of God, stop. Let me out of this. And Handwerker just cackled and cackled. Right. These men with like black leather gloves were holding the participants down.
Yeah, they said this is not worth the five Deutschmarks that I'm getting for this lousy study.
Yeah, that's nice, man. This would have been pre-Euro, I think. Oh, yeah. Even though the EU was around, I don't think the Euro was around in 87, right? No, no. It was the 90s?
I traveled to Europe in 1997, and I was still on all that weird money. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, so it was a while after that. So now scientists... I think this sort of introduced an itch to the scientific community because after... hundreds and hundreds of years, Handvoca sort of disrupted the thought process of the itch and the scratch.
And all of a sudden, scientists were like, oh, well, maybe we should start looking into this. Maybe we can actually isolate the nerve and figure this thing out.
Yeah, because, I mean, if it's not just a low-level pain sensation, then that means it's its own thing. And if it's its own thing, it probably has its own system, and we need to know more about it. So they got to study in it.
I wonder if all of this was under the notion that they were trying to cure itching.
I don't know because from what I was reading, and all of this was pretty recent stuff, there is a real unmet medical need in dealing and addressing chronic itch. Sure. Because most people who go through life just experiencing itch under normal circumstances, right? Let's say you or me, we're like in itch, yeah, they suck for a second and then it goes away.
Imagine it not going away ever, whether you're asleep or awake or swimming or in outer space or doing whatever, you're itching constantly. Supposedly, it has as much of a pronounced effect on a patient's life as chronic pain does. It's constant, persistent, and agonizing. And it's not being met or treated because it's not understood. So they're just now starting to get into itch research. Yeah.
I saw that somebody put it where pain research was about 20 years ago. So it's starting to really heat up, but we're still just starting to understand it. So I would think that they weren't looking to cure it. I think it was just pointed out that there was this whole branch of neuroscience that was totally not understood. So get to work, neurologists.
I wonder – I never really thought about it until just now, but I wonder what happens when a performer – or somebody that is in the public eye or on TV or on stage or the president giving an address, what do they do if they have poison ivy or some other kind of contact dermatitis? Have you ever thought about that? What if Lin-Manuel Miranda has a really bad case of poison ivy?
I guess they can get an understudy in that case. But you can't have an understudy as president.
No.
Which is too bad.
You just go out there with your hands bandaged up just holding them up. Like how do you fight that on camera?
Or like a news anchor when they're just like, oh my God, I'm dying. I don't know. I guess a news anchor can tape things. But I'm talking about live. What does Tom Petty do, for God's sakes?
Tom Petty grins and bears it. He had a hardscrabble childhood. He sure did. It prepared him for that. I'm going to see him tomorrow night.
Oh, yeah? Nice.
Tell him I said about that.
We're meeting for coffee. He's not performing. Anyway, I was just curious about that.
Well, it's a good question. Thanks. Do you remember when Costas had red eye at the Olympics and he was so dedicated to being the commentator, the anchor for the Olympics, they finally were like, you have to stop.
No one can look at you anymore. People are writing in. You're disgusting them. It was gross. One thing that made me think of that is I had recently – you can still kind of see it on my forearm, the scars – But I did a cement job. I was building this fence, putting in a gate at my house. And Scotty, you know Scotty. Sure. Pippin. Huh?
Pippin.
Not Scotty Pippin. He and I built this thing together. And we sank these huge posts for this gate. And I didn't know that cement could cause contact dermatitis or even burns. Never knew this. And we were... it was kind of a tight spot and we couldn't get shovels in there in the hole. So we were literally mixing this stuff like up to our elbows with our arms.
And I was like, this kind of feels good. I even said like, you know, like oatmeal or something. And then two days later, my right arm was just covered in, The nastiest dermatitis I've ever seen.
Wow.
And then he got it. Yeah, it's still kind of hanging around. So I went and got a prescription for steroids, which made me a little crazy for a week and a half. Okay.
Did you trash the gate and have to start over? No.
In a droid rage? I think I was probably not the best husband, though. I see. Over that time period. Yeah. Judging from Emily saying... hey, you're a real a-hole. Get off the steroids. Get off the juice.
I was like, shut up. Watch me hit this homer.
So long story short, I experienced this recently, and it was awful, and I can't imagine like shooting a TV show or something or like doing anything or performing live.
Yeah.
Like I would have to address it because I would scratch and smack it was what I usually do.
That's what you're supposed to do, not scratch.
Smack it?
We'll just cut to the chase here. This is why everyone's listening. How do you scratch a niche correctly? You rub it.
Yeah, I didn't do – you know what really did it was the – We have a handheld implement in the shower along with a regular shower head.
Okay, yeah.
And put that sucker on the tightest, hardest, most penetrating flow. Right. And just put that hot water on it, man. And that was like... I think I spent half my days in the shower over that week and a half.
Were you biting down like a broomstick while you were doing that?
No, it felt so good, man. I was just like I couldn't get enough of it. And then the cortisone and all that junk too.
So we'll actually talk about this because you're raising some great points here.
Well, I just kind of ruined the spoiler.
No, no, this is good stuff. We're going to analyze what was going on with your arm after this break. How about that? Sounds good.
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So Chuck, you had contact dermatitis, right?
I thought it was poison ivy because that area has some poison ivy. But each of us, Scotty and I, had it just on the arm that we sunk in cement. And then we researched and found out that could happen.
Yeah. So lesson learned on that.
Yeah.
So what happened was something in the cement, and I'm not sure what it was, reacted chemically with the mast cells in your skin. Yeah. And histamine was released, right? Apparently. And so the histamine sent a signal through specialized nerve cells called C-fibers to
Yeah, which C-fibers aren't just limited to itching. I think only about 5% handle that, and most of the rest are for pain.
Right, right. So they use the same type of neural pathway as pain, but for itch, basically it's just like, no, these are just for itches only. Yeah. And it sent a signal through your spinal column. And in your spinal column, it released a neurotransmitter called gastrin-releasing peptide receptor. And so at the skin, the histamine would have released a neurotransmitter called what?
Natriuretic polypeptide B.
Okay. So that says itch signal coming your way along those C fibers.
Yes.
Okay. It makes it to the spinal column. And I guess in about 2007, they found that there's another neurotransmitter in the spine that I guess accepts the NPPB.
The invitation. Yes.
and says, I'm going to transfer this along up to the brain, that's gastrin-releasing peptide receptor. That shoots up to the brain, and it starts this cascade of activity, right?
Because when they, like after Handwerker said, hey, you know, itching's its own thing, these other researchers went to town and traced and figured out that there were specific types of itch receptors that were dedicated just to itches, right? Yeah, more germans. More Germans. And Swedes in this case. A couple of Swedes, but mostly Germans. Just for good measure. Yeah.
And what they found eventually from tracing this pathway, they were able to follow it into the wonder machine. And apparently they made some people itch and would not let them scratch it. And then they had them lay down in an MRI. And they took a brain scan. And they found that there's this whole galaxy of stuff going on in your brain that combined is the itch sensation. Yeah.
Yeah, it was pretty interesting, too. There's a signature pattern in the brain when you get an itch, and a few specific areas light up. One is a cortex, and it all makes sense when you put it together. The cortex, in this case, just sort of geolocates where on your body you're getting that sensation.
Right.
So that helps.
It's like left elbow.
Yeah, or in my case, from right elbow to wrist. Right. And then a little bit in other places, but not too bad. That was the main area.
Is this your cortex still saying this?
Yeah. Very complex conversation going on. And then the region, I thought this was interesting, the region that governs emotional response. So basically this is your brain saying, I don't like this. This makes me feel bad. Yeah.
It's the worst thing ever. Do something.
And then finally, the limbic and motor areas, and I thought this was the most interesting. Those areas process irresistible urges. The same ones that say, I want to smoke crack or I want to eat too much cake, says... you have an itch that is unbearable and you need to scratch it.
Right, and maybe go smoke some crack and eat some cake while you're at it. Because that'll help.
So I just, I don't know, I thought that was all very super interesting when you combine that pattern.
Yeah, that's an itch and then followed by the irresistible urge to scratch it, which apparently research has shown those two do not happen independently. They're part of a cycle.
Yes.
There's something called the itch-scratch cycle, right? And so you have an irresistible urge to scratch the itch. It's weird if you think about it. On the one hand, it makes sense where you sense that there's a really hot heat source that your hand is really close to. So you have an irresistible urge to pull it back. But it doesn't feel like an urge.
It almost feels like an involuntary reflex, right? Yeah, I think it's that quick. A scratch is almost like I'm going to kill this itch. I can't wait to scratch it. Like you're almost exacting revenge on the itch for itching you, right? So a scratch is an irresistible urge where it's like pulling your hand back from a hot source or something is like an involuntary reflex. It just feels different.
Like a scratch is its own thing.
Well, it is. You know, they kind of found that out. And Gawande, Dr. Gawande, pointed out something interesting, too, that I never thought about is that you can have like that short collar rubs against your neck all day and you might never notice it. But if there's like one little string that's just poking one little area, that might trigger an itch.
Right, and so you would think that itch receptors are super finely tuned and they cover just this one tiny micron of skin. As a matter of fact, no. Apparently an itch receptor can sense itch stimuli like three inches away from it on the skin.
That's crazy.
Yeah, so they're really sensitive.
Yeah, whereas pain receptors are that specific.
Right.
Down to like millimeters. Yeah. And the other thing they found out too is that Not only can they sense it from a few inches away, but it's a very slow acting thing, which as opposed to like heat on the hand, like a candle on your hand. I almost said candle in the wind. That's super fast, but that explains why an itch is kind of slow to come and then slow to resolve by scratching.
It's not like you scratch it and you're like, oh, it's all better now. It helps a little bit.
So the itching is a good strategy if you think about, say, there's a mosquito on you and that's what's making you itch. When you go to scratch it, you're getting rid of the mosquito, maybe even smushed it or something like that. The problem is taken care of. The issue is that itch scratch cycle eventually becomes a vicious cycle because when you scratch, this is what they think is going on.
This is another mystery with itches. We don't understand how scratching alleviates an itch or why we scratch really, right? What they think, the current hypothesis is that when you scratch an itch, you're stimulating other receptors in the area that aren't itch receptors.
Yeah, so I got that, but what does that do to sort of like... say, hey, body, don't worry about that for a minute. I think so. A pain receptor is now active.
Right, exactly. It's sending feedback to the brain saying it's being taken care of. You can settle down with the itch. Gotcha. Right? I think. The problem is that neurologically or neurochemically, when you scratch an itch, You're activating those pain receptors in the area, pain pressure, that kind of thing. You're causing serotonin to be released. Right. Natural pain reliever, right?
Yeah.
Or at least mood enhancer. And what they found is that serotonin, among other neurochemicals, actually exacerbates the itch sensation. So your itch not only comes back, it gets worse.
Ah.
Yeah.
It's okay. A little too cute.
Maybe prog?
Folk prog? Well, they'd have to be German, probably.
German folk prog. Okay, yeah.
Another interesting thing they learned, too, was that – I guess we're kind of jumping around, but who cares, right? If you scratch, you don't have to scratch the point of the itch to relieve it, apparently. Right.
Like, if you have, I had that itch on my right forearm, and I could scratch maybe, it doesn't even have to be the left forearm, so it's not like you have to mirror it, but I could scratch, like, my neck, and apparently that might help relieve it.
Yeah, I tried it. It didn't work for me.
No?
No. But I think the reason why it's possible that it could have that effect is supposedly scratching also activates your pleasure center.
Yeah, you bet it does.
But there's different places where you're scratching on your body have different amounts of pleasure associated with them. Did you know that? I mean, I guess so. Yeah, interesting. Interesting. Yeah, but, I mean, think about it. It's like if you scratch your clavicle. Who cares? It's nothing, right? But then you scratch, like, your head, right, above and behind your ear. It's great.
Well, and I think they did find that, like, your back and your ankles, supposedly, are some of the most rewarding places to scratch. Exactly. And I don't know. I've never really thought about the ankles, but... My mom would give me back scratches when I was a kid. That's nice. And it was always like one of my favorite things ever. Sure.
And so I don't get those anymore now that I'm a grown up because it's gross. Mom, scratch my back. I'm 46 years old. Lay down. But yeah, it was like I think I prefer to back scratch to a back rub even. when I was younger, but now a massage is probably way better. But if a masseuse could include a little back scratch in there, Get ready for a huge tip from me.
Yeah, I guess so.
Or does that, what, is that sexual?
I think it crosses a line once they're potentially clawing away skin cells. I think that's no longer in the masseuse range or masseur range.
Yeah, I get that. Once skin cells are involved under the nails, then you're a murder suspect.
Right, exactly.
All right, well, should we take another break and talk a little bit about one of the most distressing articles I've ever read?
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All right, so we've referenced this article from The New Yorker from Dr. Atul Gawande. And he talked a lot about itching and just had good information on the science of it all.
Well, that's what he does.
But most of the article was focused on a patient, a woman in Massachusetts that they named M for the article. Just M. The letter M. Right. In other words, you know, she's anonymous. And I think she was anonymous because she kind of had a rough go after her divorce. She ended up getting HIV from getting on heroin. Kind of spun out, it seems like. But then got her life back by all accounts.
But ended up getting shingles as a result of HIV complications. Right. And... The shingles went away, but the itching did not, to say the least.
Yeah, I think the itching came after the shingles even. And at first, her physicians were like, well, I mean, you must have damaged some nerves in there. So, T.S. for you, I guess. Yeah. And then eventually, after treating it like all these different ways and it still being scratching… They said, okay, you're crazy. How about that?
Right.
And she said, well, whatever. I still have this itch. Do whatever you need to to treat it because I'm literally scratching this itch in my sleep. It was on her scalp, wasn't it?
Yeah, it was on her head, and she kind of managed to control it during the day, but like you said, at night she couldn't control it to the point where I think she was restrained in her sleep.
That came after.
Oh, okay. After they realized it's a problem because your brain is oozing out of your head.
Yeah. Can you believe that? She scratched her scalp so much that she scratched through her skull. And she went into her doctor one day and said, they've got like this green fluid coming down. And then apparently the doctor didn't even say anything.
It was just she or she was like, excuse me, went and called an ambulance and came back and said, please lay down and don't talk or move or do anything else. And they finally told her after she was at the ER that, You scratch through to your brain. Like, that's your brain you're touching right now.
The doctor's like, very interesting. Just give me a second here. Oh, my God. Well, they gathered up all the other doctors and nurses. Sure. Yeah, you got to come see this.
She said also in this article, she said that she had a, what do they call them? A roommate. Yeah. Okay, a roommate. Yeah. So she had a roommate while she was, like they treated it. Gave her a skin graft. And then she itched. She scratched away the skin graft. Oh, man. And then they finally were like, okay, you're going to an asylum. And she's like, do they even call it that anymore?
And they're like, just shut up.
Yeah.
And they put her in this asylum and restrained her, like you said, while she was sleeping. And she had a roommate in there. She said in the article she heard didn't survive. He had scratched through his carotid artery and died, bled to death.
Yeah.
So... They never really got to the bottom of this. She finally got a doctor. The doctors were like, it's something that had to do with the shingles. This is what we think happens at our doctors, that the nerve endings around the area where she had shingles were so devastated by the shingles that there were just a couple of nerve endings left, and it just so happened that they were itch receptors.
Yeah, itch receptors. Bad luck. And that those were like really exacerbated by the fact that there was no other competing sensations. Oh. Ipso facto, there's your problem, right? So they said, well, we'll just cut the main nerve to your face and that should solve the problem. They cut the main nerve to her face. She said, thanks a lot. Yeah. And then the itch came back.
And she's like, you have to be kidding me. So finally she met a doctor who said, I don't think it's your receptors or the nerve transmission. I think it's your brain.
Yeah.
Not psychologically. I don't think it's a psychosis. I think that the actual itch signal in your brain is being set off without any stimulation or transmission going on. And apparently she was right. But then they were like, good luck treating that.
Right.
Yeah.
I didn't see much follow-up on this. I did read one article that... a follow-up with Dr. Gawande because there were a lot of skeptics after that article came out that said it's impossible with your fingernail because she said she didn't use an implement. It's not like she got out a metal file to scratch through your skull.
And he said that his theory was that bacteria that became infected had eaten it away such that the skull became soft.
Turned it to mush.
Yeah.
Yuck.
And then people also said, you know, you don't have men and women in the same room in hospitals or asylums. That's false. And he said that it was like the room next door and quit being pedantic. Yeah, really? Man. I think people just didn't believe it. So all these folks wrote into The New Yorker. All these coastal elites said, no way.
They said, a tool, a tool, come on. So the idea, though, that even if this woman was hypothetical, I think Atul Gawande is a pretty upstanding cat and didn't make this up. But even if, say, she was hypothetical, her problem, what the doctors initially thought it was, was that she had a neuropathic itch. Type of chronic itch.
But then the doctor who apparently figured it all out said, no, no, no, it's a neurogenic itch, another type of chronic itch. And it has to do with whether it's the brain going off or the nerve transmissions going off. Either way, you don't actually have an itch, although you're experiencing the itch sensation.
Well, and they also then said at some point she had a psychogenic itch.
Right.
So they basically covered three out of the four kinds of itches The last one being, man, I have such a hard time. Pre-receptive. And that's what you get from like a mosquito bite or if you have a skin disorder like eczema or something. Sure. So they basically ruled out the most common one and at various stages said, no, you've got this other one for the other three.
Right. Finally. And then again, they said, there's really nothing we can do to treat it. The one that they've got down pretty well is prureceptive. We've got all sorts of stuff to treat that because that's basically histamine is being released and your skin is itching. So you can treat histamines with antihistamines.
yeah you can reduce that response and then your itch will go away well i took a benadryl at night and they also make this benadryl spray uh a topical spray that just it really helps right so between that and cortisone and then the benadryl at night i did okay right and those awesome showers so the like the pro-receptive itch we've got treatment for basically yeah
The other three, you're in trouble, it turns out, as far as it stands right now. Maybe five or ten years from now, there'll be something. Apparently, there is a lot of movement right now on treating this stuff, but it's like they're having to figure out how to block some really otherwise important chemicals in the body, like that NPPB, right? Right.
Yeah, that one, what is it, can help regulate your blood pressure as well? Yeah, right. You can't just switch that off. Right. Just turn off the gene that produces that. You won't itch, but you might die early. Right. Not worth it. Right. The one that really, I mean, they're all sad, but the psychogenic, when you have a mental illness where you feel like you have parasites and bugs on your skin.
You remember our Morgellons disease?
Yeah.
You said it, Morgellons, right? And I said Morgellons?
I can't remember. I know that I said it the way everyone else says it, though. That's all I remember.
Morgulons.
That's right.
That's how I said it.
Man, but all this stuff, it just had so much empathy for Em.
Yeah.
And wanted to follow up so bad to see how she was doing. You know?
Yeah.
And she kept scratching holes in her skull.
I don't know. I read another article called Accidental Therapists. It's by a guy named Eric Broodman and it was published on a website called Stat. It's all about delusional parasitosis. but how it's treated sometimes by entomologists, like those extension services at universities.
Here in the U.S., state universities have what are called extension services where a scientist will basically be there for the public to come talk to about whatever. Usually it's like household stuff or farm stuff, something like that. And apparently entomologists frequently are approached with people who are like, I've got these bugs like crawling all over me. Here's a sample of them.
And it turns out it's like carpet fiber or something like that. And these people just can't stop itching or whatever. But it turns out they have a delusion. They don't actually have parasites. My question is, is that our understanding of it now and in five or ten years we're going to know that they had neurogenic itches and we just treated them like they were crazy even though they weren't?
Yeah.
And it's going to be like a real blemish on the history of neuroscience? Maybe. Or will this idea of psychogenic itches hold up?
Yeah.
I wonder.
Did you ever see the Todd Haynes movie, Safe, with Julianne Moore? No. It was one of his first movies after the Karen Carpenter thing he did. I mean, it was a real movie, but it wasn't released. But Safe was very disturbing. It was about a woman who kind of slowly drifted into madness from believing that the world was poisoning her. Wow.
And household chemicals and everything, and it kind of started slow, and eventually she ended up at this kind of safe camp for people like her. Right. Very distressing movie. And one of her first movies, too.
I'll have to check it out.
Yeah, it's really good. Oh, it's old? Yeah, it was... It was early 90s, I think.
I know what you're talking about. No, it's called the Road to Wellville. Is that what you mean? No, it's called Safe. Okay, I'll check it out.
Yeah, it's good. Very distressing.
I'm trying to think of anything.
And that wasn't necessarily itching, but it was just like that psychogenic thing of like, I think everything in my house is killing me.
Yeah, I mean, have you ever like stopped and thought about something and thought, there's the path to madness right there. I'm staring down it right now. I should probably not keep thinking about this.
No, I don't really get like that. Oh, no? No, I'm very easily kind of led on to the next shiny thing. I got you. I'm like a bird. Yeah, basically. That's probably for the best. It is. It has its drawbacks, though. What else you got? Well, one thing it says in here is that having someone else scratch your itch apparently does not do the trick. So you have to scratch your own itch.
Yeah, I mean, somebody can. Like, obviously, like, you know, if you're like, a little left, a little left, up, up, up. Yeah, see, I agree with that.
Oh, man. Not you, them saying. Oh, right. Like, I think it definitely helps.
I think what they're saying is it doesn't have quite the same relieving properties as if you do it yourself.
Oh, yeah. And if you could reach that area of your back, it would be better than that.
Yeah, I guess so.
I got a pretty good back scratcher now, though.
Oh, yeah? What's it made of? Bamboo? Bamboo.
No, it's metal, but it's telescoping, so it's not two feet long.
Gotcha.
But it can be.
But it's metal? No.
Yeah, it looks like a bear claw. Not the pastry, but a real bear claw, which actually looks like the pastry.
Man, I guess it does.
That's why they call it that.
I never thought about that.
Why did you think it was called that? I'm just kidding. They actually should call it a bear paw. It looks more like a bear paw than a bear claw. I'm going to try and bring that around.
Unless you get somebody who really goes the extra mile and puts almonds on the tips to make it look like the claw.
Yes. And not just haphazardly scattered about the bear paw. Exactly. Yeah.
That's the difference between a baker who loves their job and one who's just in it for the money.
Yeah.
A couple more things, Charles. Like we said, there's still plenty of mysteries around itches. Yeah. Why, say, does a feather tickle sometimes but itch other times? Uh-huh. Big question. They don't know.
Right.
But I'd like to know.
Well... Maybe the Germans will get active on this again.
Yeah.
They're the only ones who can solve it.
Only the Germans can save us. You got anything else? No, I don't. I don't either. Itching.
Nice work. Thanks, man. Same to you. Thank you. And you haven't scratched in a while, so.
No, I've been scratching the same spot, and it's starting to get a little tender, so I'm stopping.
Man, there's nothing worse than a movie. I feel like I've seen this a few times in movies where someone is compulsively scratching until it becomes a sore, and then they're scratching it. It's just like, ugh, I can't watch that.
Through their brain?
Well, yeah.
So I guess the moral of this one is, what would Tom Petty do? I'll ask him tomorrow. If you want to know more about itching or what Tom Petty would do, you can type those words in the search bar at HowStuffWorks.com. And since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail.
I'm going to call this one of the many emails we got on the swearing episode. Did you notice that? People really seemed to like that one. Yeah, they did. Got a lot of response. Yeah. Mostly from fellow potty mouths, which were very filthy emails too, which were great.
Yeah.
And I responded in turn by cursing at them in my replies. Sure. Which I hope they enjoyed. In all caps? No. I didn't want to be too aggressive. So this is from Emily Allen. Hey guys, long time listener. First time writing in. Um, writing about swearing, I should start by saying that it's funny I'm writing about this episode because I almost never curse.
And when I do, it's normally not a very offensive swear. However, your intro made me think of something interesting I wanted to share. You talked about how you really censor yourself during recording in order to keep your show family friendly. It got me thinking about how our jobs really shape our vocabulary, how we express ourselves.
I noticed a major change in the way I speak since becoming a teacher. I primarily teach kindergarten to second grade students, and I found this really changed the way I express myself. For example, I try to avoid even saying things are dumb or stupid around kids. I'll often say, well, isn't that silly instead?
This works in the classroom, but I often get laughs from friends and family when I refer to a situation as silly, like a disagreement with a colleague or something a politician does. There are other expressions I use with the kids that often slip into regular conversation as well. The most embarrassing, when I'm out and excuse myself to go potty. That always gets a laugh.
Anyway, I just wanted to share and thank you for all the great work you do. I learn so much from listening each week, and I'm always excited to see the new episode offerings every Tuesday and Thursday. That is from Emily. Alan. Thank you, Ms.
Alan.
Very silly.
That was a very nice email. Yeah. If you want to get in touch with us like Ms. Alan did, you can send us an email at stuffpodcast at howstuffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.
Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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Lenovo, Lenovo.
During tax season, your sensitive info does a lot of traveling to places you can't control, stopping off at payroll, your accountant or tax preparer, and countless other data centers on its way to the IRS. Any of them can expose you to identity theft because they all have the info on your W-2, just the ticket for criminals to steal your identity.
No wonder the IRS reported tax fraud due to identity theft went up 20% last year. You need LifeLock. They monitor millions of data points per second and alert you to threats you could miss. If your identity is stolen, LifeLock's U.S.-based restoration specialists will fix it, backed by the million-dollar protection package. And restoration is guaranteed, or your money back.
Don't let identity thieves take you for a ride. Get LifeLock protection for tax season and beyond. Join now and save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LifeLock and use promo code iHeart or go to LifeLock.com slash iHeart for 40% off. Terms apply.
The new year's here. It's the perfect time to refresh those household essentials and score some cashback rewards with Colgate Palmolive. From toothpaste to dish soap, chances are you've got Colgate Palmolive products on your shopping list and in your house right now. We're talking brands like Colgate, Soft Soap, Palmolive, Irish Spring, Fabuloso, and Tom's of Maine.
And right now, you can get up to a $10 digital Visa prepaid card when you buy up to $30 of Colgate-Palmolive products. Here's how it works. Spend $20 on their products, get $5. Spend $30, get a $10 reward. All you do is shop your favorite brands, snap a pic of your receipt, and upload it to cprewards.com. It's so easy. That's cprewards.com.
So grab what you need, or maybe try something new, and get rewarded just for doing your usual shopping. And start your year fresh by earning cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive. Rewards available while supplies last. Limits apply. U.S. only. 1-125-331-25. For full terms and conditions, visit cprewards.com.