Video game development is a massive challenge, but how does one person develop an entire game? Well in this gaming packed episode we find out! Does a solo dev do every aspect or do they lean on others? What are the challenges and the joys of it? Can you get rich if your video game gets popular? Join us as we chat all things solo development with Emily Sondering who is an accomplished developer with a great social media presence and a can’t quit attitude. It’s another awesome video game episode from your favorite gaming podcast! Check out and wishlist Lily’s World XD! https://store.steampowered.com/app/3195580/lilys_world_XD/ Thanks to our MYTHIC Supporters: Redletter, Ol’ Jake, Disratory and Gaius Connect with the show: Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/videogamerspod Join our Gaming Community: https://discord.gg/Dsx2rgEEbz Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/videogamerspod/ Follow us on X: https://twitter.com/VideoGamersPod Subscribe to us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU12YOMnAQwqFZEdfXv9c3Q Visit us on the web: https://videogamerspod.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: What does it take to be a solo game developer?
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Stardew Valley? Braid? Minecraft? Undertale? Some of the most iconic games ever, but they all have one thing in common. They were made by...
by a solo developer how does one accomplish such a feat how can one person make a game without the help of an entire studio do they truly have to know how to do art music coding and more well we're about to find out in this episode but first some introductions are in order i am your host josh and joining me he likes solo cups han solo and the anime solo leveling it's it That's right.
That's a lot of solos, man.
I didn't know where to go on this one, Ryan. I'm going to be honest, man.
That's fine. I'm just the Lone Ranger. I live a solo life.
Those are all great things, though. I have not seen solo leveling, but I hear it's really good. Who doesn't love a good solo cup? And Han Solo, man. He's a scoundrel.
Goat, yeah.
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Chapter 2: What challenges do solo developers face?
Yeah. And joining us, she is a solo developer with multiple titles on her resume who has shared the joys and the challenges of developing games on her social media. It's the one and only Emily Sundering.
Hello. Yes. I'm super excited that you guys have me here today. And what an epic intro.
Well, thank you. We try. We try. We got to set the tone of the podcast. Emily, thank you so much for joining us. We are really excited to chat with you today about what it is like to be the only person making a video game. And kind of what is involved in that. We've been doing a series of talking with people from all over the gaming industry, voice actors.
We even talked to a gaming psychologist, which was really cool. We've talked with animators, AAA studios, independent studios and stuff like that. But we have not had the opportunity to talk to a solo developer. And so we are super excited to have you on with us. And if you could, just so our listeners can kind of get to know you a bit more, you've been a solo dev for a little while.
You are currently working on a game and you actually have another game that is out on Steam that actually has a really good rating that I'd love to talk about a little bit. But can you tell us a little bit more about your prior work and what you do?
Yeah, so hi, I'm Emily. I am a Los Angeles-based game developer and game dev creator. You might know me from game dev videos I post on Instagram and YouTube under the name Sondering Emily. I also previously did make a game called A Taste of the Past. It is on Steam and has over 120,000 plays, which was really exciting. That's awesome. And now I am working on my first horror game, Lily's World XD.
It's the first time I'm going solo. And the premise of the game is you investigate a young girl's computer. It's set in the early 2000s. So you do things like chat on AIM, go through your cringy blog. You have, I recreate Friendster in my game. Everything seems normal until someone realizes you're not Lily.
Ooh.
Yeah. Creepy, dark things happen.
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Chapter 3: How does Emily approach game development?
This is awesome. So we're going to get into Lily's World XD here in a little bit because I am very curious about what it is like to kind of, you know, come up with the concept of a game, approach it. The early 2000s was a lot of fun. Like you said, you know, days of MySpace, AIM and all that stuff as well.
Dude, yeah, I want to say just watching that stuff and I see that AIM window pop up and I'm like, Oh my gosh. Am I in like eighth grade again? Like what is happening right now? Oh, Ryan, you just dated yourself by the way. Oh yeah, no, I know.
Yeah, I'm old. So Emily, is it safe to say that as a game developer that you are a gamer yourself? Do you play a lot of games? Is this just a passion that you have for creating them or do you actually, you know, are you a gamer?
I definitely am a gamer. I feel like it's strange to make games without playing them. It's like writing a book without reading books or making movies without watching them. I typically play more independent, story-driven games. I've never been super into AAA, although I do really like The Last of Us.
Yes, solid.
Yeah, actually, before this, I used to only make cozy games because that was all I played. And then earlier this year, I discovered the indie horror game called Omori and it blew my mind.
That game is incredible. Yes.
So good. And that made me realize the potential of horror to tell a really moving story. So after playing a few other horror games, another notable one I love is called Inscription.
Yep, very familiar with that one too.
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Chapter 4: What inspired Emily to become a game developer?
She's like, I know.
Yeah, that's blah, blah, blah.
She's Basil, and then I went as Mari.
Okay, that was it. Yes, Basil rings a bell. And she was so excited. People were like, look, it's Basil. And she was like, yes!
That's one of those crazy things when you cosplay and people recognize you. Can I get a picture? You're like, absolutely. Yeah. That's cool. So, I mean, you mentioned Last of Us. I'm a big action RPG guy. I love Last of Us is in my top ten. You know, God of War, Uncharted. All those are big, kind of near to my heart. What is some of your favorite games as far as genre-based?
Are you falling in love more in the horror genre or more action RPG? Where do you kind of gravitate towards with your game kind of play?
Yeah, so horror is something that I got interested in over the last year. Before that, I'd never really played horror games. But in terms of what I enjoy in the horror genre, I specifically like psychological horror games. I'm not a huge fan of like Scary Monster in the Woods or Jump Scare. I like horror that gets under your skin and messes with your brain.
Yes.
And... Pushes the genre entirely. Outside of horror, I really enjoy heartfelt story games. So, basically the opposite. Horror that messes your mind or horror that touches your heart. Or games that touch your heart. So, some of my favorite games in the opposing genre would be Spiritfarer. Before Your Eyes is probably my favorite game of all time.
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Chapter 5: How does Emily balance horror and cozy games?
That's a game that I really keep meaning to play. I have heard nothing but good things about it. And that's one of those few that has just flown under my radar and I haven't had a chance to dive into yet.
Man, we got like 100 games we're meaning to play, dude.
backlog man it's for that never ending it just keeps getting added to yeah i this is funny because this blinking game i feel like i just sit there and stare i'm like no i can't advance yet no honestly okay the thing with the blinking game is that you want to keep your eyes open as long as possible for the game and so my eyes end up hurting but then by the end of the game i'm crying because it's very emotional so i'm just like blinking and the game just keeps switching i keep blinking
That's amazing. So I like that you have like these two opposite ends of like psychological horror, which is also my favorite kind of horror. I want something to mess with my head. I want it to kind of freak me out. Sometimes it's the things you can't see that are the scary things versus like you said, like just an obvious jump scare or some kind of creepy looking monster or something like that.
And then it's funny because you mentioned your love of cozy games and stuff. And I was like, these are two very different genres there.
Yeah, so actually before I got into horror games, I only promoted cozy games on my channel. And then eventually I started promoting horror and I expected there to be a drop off because the audience is now confused that I'm switching genres. But surprisingly, my videos about horror games do just as well as my videos about cozy games.
I do think that they surprisingly share an audience, at least from what I see in my own video performance.
Yeah. Yeah. I think people like that kind of difference. You know, it's like, let me, let me go this direction for a little while. Okay. I'm nice and relaxed. I've played animal crossing and my cozy game and stuff like that. And then it's like, okay, now I need something a little bit different. What can really scare the tar out of me?
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Chapter 6: What are the benefits of solo game development?
So, OK, so I want to kind of talk a little bit about what inspired you to kind of become a game developer. So was there a particular game or gaming moment that inspired you to want to get into the actual development of games yourself? Yeah.
Yeah. So the first one is actually I mentioned earlier, which is The Last of Us. Yep. So before that, I thought that games were just about violence or shooting or I thought about like multiplayer Call of Duty, which never really appealed to me. Also, The Last of Us came out when I was like 13 or 14. And so at that point in my life, games were a quote unquote boys club type thing.
Yep.
And it was when I discovered The Last of Us that I realized that games could be such a powerful medium for storytelling. And also, like, Ellie was one of the main characters. Girls can play too. So I got really involved in gaming after that. I... Was really into AAA at the time and then eventually made my way to indie.
I would say like another moment that really solidified that I wanted to be a game developer was the game called Night in the Woods. It's a game about a young girl who drops out of college and goes back to her hometown and realizes it's the same but also very different. And that's actually something that I was going through at the time.
I'd taken a quarter off UCLA, and I was back in my hometown, and things were different but the same. And I think that was really pivotal because it was the first time I felt that a game was actually telling my life story. Because The Last of Us, it's very relatable and touching, but I don't necessarily see myself in those characters. And it's also depicting a zombie apocalypse.
Right, yeah.
Versus Night in the Woods, I felt like it was depicting my life and it just felt so special and I realized that I could use games as a medium to tell the story of my life or dreams I have or things that scare me or just, you know, it could be used as a vehicle to express myself.
I love that. You mentioned Spiritfarer earlier. And we had one of us play Spiritfarer a while back. And again, it was that kind of relatable. People are going to find things that relate to them. I've heard of the Night in the Woods, right? Yeah. I've heard of that. I actually looked into that at one point because I was kind of like, man, I need something to play.
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Chapter 7: How does social media influence indie game development?
And I actually started Lily's World XC as just like my escape from that project I used to be working on. And The main reason I did it solo was honestly, it was just such a weird niche idea. I figured no one else would want to work on this except me. But ultimately, I actually have found a lot of joy in solo developing. Before this, I thought it would never be for me, but I'm really enjoying it.
I think certain things that I really like about solo dev is actually how fast moving it is. So I thought that... Working with a team would be faster because you don't have to do every single discipline. But for example, in the game that I was working on, let's say we wanted to do a design for the main character. We would have a concept artist do 20 variations of that main character design.
And we'd be like, okay, we like the eyes of this one and the ears of that one and the clothes of this one. And then she'd have to do like five more designs based off her preferences. And then this process could take a really long time versus for Lily's World XD. I'm the only artist or main lead artist. Right. And so I thought, okay, um, you know, I'm not gonna, you know, I approve everything.
I don't have to go through all these rounds of feedback and it actually can lead to creative, creative solutions. So I do enjoy doing art, but I didn't want to do all the art of the main character. So I came up with the creative solution to use my face. So Lily's World XD uses real pictures of the young girl, which are of me as a teenager.
And so in a weird way, even though I'm doing everything, the process of approval is so much faster because it's like, Hey, Emily, do you approve this? Yeah, I approve that.
I
can just finish it actually a lot faster, surprisingly. And I think like one big benefit is that You know, I could do playtesting so much easier because it would take so long in my previous team to even get to a place where we felt comfortable enough to have others play the game and then give their feedback. Then, of course, we have to iterate on the feedback.
But for me, because I'm just deciding it all, I can have so many more rounds of feedback because it's, you know, build, feedback, build, feedback, build, feedback. Like it's so much faster, actually. And I think actually the game is turning out better because I can just... rely on player feedback rather than getting in like five.
I remember in my old team, we had this like three hour debate over whether a chicken should talk.
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Chapter 8: What advice does Emily have for aspiring game developers?
You don't have to pause and wait and say, okay, well now I have to send this over to creative and then get creative to sign off on it, you know, and that kind of thing. So it's really neat that you said that because I, I personally as a lifelong gamer have never thought that that could actually be a benefit to how fast you can actually get something done.
yes yes the con is that you do freaking everything yeah that is the downside there is like oh you want this done guess who's doing it guess who's gonna do it yep that's the thing you get you get just so much flexibility and and you avoid all that red tape when you do it yourself um again like you said though you know you're the one doing it yourself i work solo i work for myself and uh
Sometimes it's really good. Sometimes I'm like, man, I should really get somebody on board to help me. Obviously, as you well know, there's a lot of crazy aspects to designing a game and a lot of work that's involved. How do you go about deciding on these people and picking what parts to kind of sub out to get that little bit of help to alleviate some pressure from you?
Yeah, so in terms of music and sound effects, I've never done that in my life, and I know I would suck. So that was an obvious one to contract out.
That's smart, yeah.
And I have been working with a programmer to help. They have helped me code a couple of the things in my game. So in my demo, there's going to be a dress-up game. They coded that. And then they also helped me code the tab system in my game. Cause the game takes place in a computer. So like how the web address works. And that's actually a very interesting story of how I met my programmer.
So last year I went to the game developer conference and my flight got really delayed because of a storm. And so I was just sitting at the airport and then this person goes, are you saundering Emily? And it was someone who actually watched my videos. So we had this like two hour conversation at the airport and we were, we both live in LA. So many, many, many, many, many months passed.
And I – so Lilith World XD is actually how I'm learning how to code. Before this, I've never coded. So as you can imagine, I suck. So in my Discord, I had this problem and I was like, hey, does anyone know how to code this? Yeah. So various people tried to help me, and every person made some progress on the issue, but didn't solve it completely.
And then eventually, this person, Kirk, who had met me at the Game Developer Conference so many months ago, was like, do you want to just give me access to your project? And then the next day, just did it all themselves with no... Just like...
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